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Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Name of Interviewee: Harold Marks
Name of War: Korean War
Length of Interview: (00:46:00)
Pre-Enlistment
Born in Phoenix, AZ in 1931 (2:00)
Left AZ in 1936, moved to Detroit, MI (2:20)
Graduated from Arthurville High School in Saginaw, MI in 1949 (2:35)
Graduated from University of Michigan in 1953 and joined the Army (2:50)
Was 10 when the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred (3:30)
Joined the Army on June 15th, 1953 (3:55)
Joined because it was during the Korean War (4:30)
Training
Basic Training was at Fort Breckinridge, KY (1:20)
Army Intelligence school at Fort Devens, MA for six months (1:25)
Enlisted so he could pick his duty rather than be drafted (4:45)
Thought Army Intelligence would be more useful because he had gone to college (5:15)
Spent three days in Kentucky getting sworn in and eight weeks in Basic Training (6:00)
Lost 30 pounds during that time (6:20)
Was taught how to shoot, clean and take apart a rifle (6:40)
Spent six weeks at Fort Lewis waiting to be shipped out to Alaska (9:50)
Each class had 30 people, and whoever finished at the top would be sent to California to
learn Russian and interpret (7:30)
Finished at the top of his class, was sent instead to Alaska (7:45)
Army Intelligence School
Enlistment
Was in the Army from June of 1953-June of 1956 (0:45)
Honorably discharged from the Army in 1961 (0:50)
Discharged as a Specialist Third Class (1:12)
Spent a year in Alaska in Anchorage and Nome (1:35)
Spent last year at Army Security Agency Headquarters in Arlington Hall Station, VA
(1:45)
Was a Morse code intercept, and his unit monitored the coast of Siberia (8:15)
The UN was monitoring shipping movements from North Korea and the USSR (9:00)
Was married prior to being shipped to Alaska, and wife was not allowed to come with
because Alaska was considered overseas, as it was not yet a state (11:20)
Spent 6 months in Nome, then sent to St. Lawrence Island for 3 months(12:40)
Only 12 miles from the International Date Line (13:00)
Lived underground, no plumbing or electricity (13:50)
�
Was sent to ASA Headquarters in VA for one year, wife was allowed to come with
(15:00)
Always was a Morse code interceptor at each base (15:20)
Describes his job, copying each USSR Morse code, and their style (16:00)
Saw no combat during his time in the service (18:45)
Memorable Events
Interacted with the Eskimos on St. Lawrence Island during a whale hunt (19:10)
One guy lost his mind on the island, went outside in his fatigues and bare feet (22:45)
Everybody had latrine duty at least twice on the island (24:00)
Once had to do maneuvers in the middle of the night in winter on the island (26:50)
Stayed in touch with family usually by letters, but was able to call home on leave in
Fairbanks (28:10)
Had cooks on the island and only 200 men, so they were fed well (29:30)
Entertained themselves with cards, played ping pong on the island, and played basketball
in Nome (30:00)
Did not receive any leaves while in Alaska (33:20)
Officers were very casual in Alaska. Very informal atmosphere, but disciplined once
back in the United States (35:00)
Service ended on June 14 1959, but had to serve 5 years in the Army Reserves on
inactive status (37:00)
Life expectancy for Eskimos on the island was only about 30 years because of the bad
water (43:00)
Post-Enlistment
Went back to college for a degree in accounting from Aquinas College (3:00)
Drove home to Grand Rapids after discharge (37:30)
Enjoyed his time in the Army, but enjoyed leaving (38:00)
Went into a family business a few days after coming home (38:30)
Made friends in the service, but did not keep up with them after he got out (39:00)
Proud to serve, but that may have changed if people were shooting at him (40:00)
Never attended a reunion for his unit (41:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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MarksH
Title
A name given to the resource
Marks, Harold A. (Interview outline and video), 2005
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marks, Harold A.
Description
An account of the resource
Harold Marks was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1931. Shortly after his birth, his family moved to Detroit, then to the Saginaw, Michigan area. Upon graduation from the University of Michigan, Harold enlisted in the US Army, and was on Morse Code Intercept duty from 1953-1956. Harold was stationed in Anchorage, Nome and St. Lawrence Island, Alaska before his final station at the Army Security Agency headquarters in Arlington Hall Station, Virginia.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Forton, Lindsey (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2005-06-02
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3fb779ccb97a74dd998729e6e119706b.pdf
6739a0cc120ceaff69871dfcb4927558
PDF Text
Text
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
ISHPEMING T01lNSHIP
Prepared for
ISHPEMING TOvlNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION
September 1978
,...
by the Marquette County Planning Commission
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�Table of Contents
INTRODUCTION: WHAT IS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN?
....•..............
1
CHAPTER I: POPULATION•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
CHAPTER II: NATURAL FEATURES AND RESOURCES.....................
CHAPTER III: THE ECONOMY......................................
36
CHAPTER IV:
I.....l\.ND USE ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
50
CHAPTER V: TRANSPORTATION •.•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
CHAPTER VI: RECREATION
CHAPTER VII: WATER AND WASTEWATER •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
CI~i\PTER VIII: COMMUNITY FACILITIES ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
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CHA...PTER IX:
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........................................
HOUSiriG ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
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CHAPTER X: GOALS AND OBJECTIVES...............................
CHAPTER XI: IMPLEMENTATION ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
3
13
76
81
99
108
List of Tables
TABLE 1:
TABLE 2:
INTERPRETATION OF 30ILS FOR ISHPEMING TOWNSHIP•••••••
EMPLOYMENT TABLES ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
TABLE 3:
TABLE 4:
TOTAL BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENTS & PAYROLLS•••••••••••••
TOWNSHIP ROAD COMPOSITE ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
26
39
42
67
List of Figures
Figure 2: Bedrock Geology o•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Figure 3: Surficial Geology • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •.• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
14
16
18
Figure 4: Slope
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••o••••••••••••••••
21
Figure 5: Soil Associations••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
23
28
Figure 1 :
Figure 6:
Vegetation•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
7: Minerals ..•........................•....••......•....
Figure 8: Land Use Suitability•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Figure 9: Lorenz Curve•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Figure
Figure 10:Lorenz Curve•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Figure 11:Wage
•
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34
ioa
40
Salary Employment & Labor and Proprietor
Earnirigs - 1974 ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
43
Figure 12:Index to Land Use Maps•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
55
Figure 13:Land Use - Map One•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
56
�INTRODUCTION
WHAT IS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN?
A Comprehensive Plan is an official document adopted by a local government aa a policy guide in malting decisionaabout the physical development of
the community.
It indicates how the leaders of the government want the com-
munity to develop in the next 10 to 20 yee.'l's ..
There have been muny terms
and definitions used to describe a comprehensive plan, but T.J. Went, a
leading figure in the area of planning, has stated that
II
the general plan
ic the official statement of a municipal legislative body which sets forth
its major policies concerning deairable future physical development."
Why is a Plan Needed?
A plan ia needed because local govern@eLts, such as Ishpeming Township,
make or influence decisions concerning many physical d~velopments which occur in the community~
Moat local governments are cmmposed of lay citizens
and technological guidance is neededin making these decisions.
Planners
can proyide guidance in this deciaion-making process by establishing general
policies, whose goal is the betterment of the community.
The Importance of the LegislativeBody
Because of their role in planning, the Ishpeming Township Board and the
Ishpeming Township Planning Commission must
be
aware of both local needs and
the numerous land use changes and policy making decisions that are made within
the Township and surrounding areas and aid boards in making important policy
decisions.
The Scone of the Plan
There are many different ideas concerning the scope of the plan.
Some
people believe that the plan should include physical characteristics such aa,
size,location, and regional development, and others believe that it should
center around economic and administrative planning. Henry Fagin suggests that
a physical plan and all other plans ehould be unified in an ultra-comprehensive "policies plan."
The scope
or
the Ishpeming Townehip Comprehensive Plan
includes physical development, a land use inventory, population projections,
the economy, natural features and resources, transportation,
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CHAPTER I
POPULATION
Introduction
Births, deaths, migration, and other population characteristics affect
the provision of essential municipal services to residents.
A major ftmc-
tion of com~unity planning is to determine the number of new municipal services that should be provided to meet existing and future community needs.
Decisions of local officials concerning land use development and new services will depend on future population projections and characteristics.
T'nis chapter will analyze population trends and projectionc, and population
characteristics such as education levels, age and aex distributions, and
household types.
Population Trends
To make a meaningful assessment of the population, it is important to
analyze past population growth and to examine regional and local factors
that are likely to have a strong influence on future growth.
The following
table lists past population figures for the To~mship.
Past Population Figures for Ishpeming Tm-mship
19:ro
1920
587
1044
? J_J ~ rn1t 0
Source:
1229.
1064
)
··,if.,
✓
1,
::;;-,··,-I ,...
1940
1950
1331
... ~···
1517
,
1960
/·_✓:--~ ,
2238
..,...
---
2457
. ,-·•-
../.?~:,1 ...
U.S. densus
Growth in the Township prior to 1900 was difficult to determine.
T'ne popu-
lation in the Township tends to follow the fluctuations in the mining industry.
The table below compares the Township changes in the last three dec-
ades with the County, the central region, and the state.
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projections for 1980.
Arithmetic Projection.
An arithmetic projection assumes that the
average numerical increase which the Township experienced in the past will
continue into the future with no significant change.
The population of
Ishpeming Township has increased from 360 persons in 1900 to 2,457 persons
in 1970.
This averages out to an increase of 30 persons per year.
Based
upon this yearly growth, the Township will have 2,757 persons in 1980.
The arithmetic p~ojection does not consider birth and death rates, nor migration into or out of the Township except in an indirect manner since average figures are products of births, deaths, and migration.
Ratio Method.
The ratio projection has the advantage of utilizing
population projections of larger geographic areas, thereby overcoming many
of the inherent problems of population projections.
Marquette County was
plotted in relationship to the State of Michigan and the Township was plot~
ted in relationship to Marquette County.
Using this method, the Township
would have a population of 2,912 by 1980.
~inear Regression.
The linear regression establishes a trend line
from past populations and then projects it into the future.
This line in-
dicates that in 1980 Ishpeming Township will have a population of 2,830
persons.
To get a more accurate idea of the rate of growth in the Township
since 1970, an estimate of the 1977 population was made using the number
of dwelling units located in the Township during a windshield survey completed in March of 1977.
located in this survey.
There were 1,016 year-round occupied residences
The 1977 population was derived by multiplying
the number of year-round occupied residences by 3.2, the average number
of persons per household in Marquette County,
Township had a population of 3,251 in 1977.
Using this method, the
This agrees fairly well with
the Michigan Department of Management and Budget's July 1976 estimate of
3, 22L~ ( the figure used in Federal Revenue Sharing programs).
These figures
already surpass the 1980 projected population, indicating an exceptionally
high rate of growth.
The population in the Township increased approximately 31% between 1970
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and 1977.
This percentage is already
population of the previous decade.
well above the 10% increase in the
This rapid rate of increase is probably
due to the expansion of the iron ore mines and the tremendous growth in the
County as a whole, particularly near the urban areas.
Cleveland-Cliffs Iron Company revealed that
C
A survey conducted by
5.8% of their employees
�upper half of the range provided by the five methods.
visor predicts a population of 3,500 by 1980.
The Township super-
The 1980 Census should be
used to update the figures and make projections for 1985.
The rate of growth
between 1980 and 1985 will probably slow down considerably since ClevelandCliffs does not anticipate hiring a significant number of new employees during
this period.
Ish~eming Township Population Trends
4000
3500
3000
. . .·.· .. ·....·. •. •, . .·.. .:,,-.-:•:
:i:;:;:;:;~:;:;;;:;;;::;::::.-. --- ,·:. :,·
25 00
2000
1500
1000
1940
1950
1960
1970
1977
1980
Population Characteristics
The characteristics of the population are also improtant since needed
facilities and services should be based on who is using them.
Different
priorities would be established for an older population than a younger one~
Therefore, the age, sex, and education.. of persons in the Township will be
studied.
The income level of the Township is discussed in the economy chap-
ter,
Education.
There is a distinct link between educational attainment,
family inaome, arld the economic and employment characteristics of -a community.
Areas which have a high educational level generally have a high
average family income, a low unemployment rate, and a healthy,rate of economic growth.
The following tables outline the number of people enrolled
in schools and the educational level of the population in 1970.
,.,
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To get a relative idea of the educational level in· the Township, the
following chart compares the Township to other governmental units.
Years of Schools Completed: Persons
25 Years Old and Over
o-4
5-8
.2.:.1.1
12
Ishpeming Township
3.. 8%
24.3%
17.5%
17.9%
12.0
City of Marquette
1.6%
16.0%
15.4%
36.6%
36.8%
30.2%
12.5;,
Marquette County
1
Central Region
2 .. 7%
19·o8% · 18.5%
39.0%
20.of,
12.2
3.5%
19.1%
12.0
3 .. 8%
22.1%
36.6%
33 .. 6%
15.6%
State of Michigan
25.2%
22.1%
12.1
United States
3 .. 9%
19.3°;6
19.3%
31.o%
19.196
21.1%
1
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Median
12.1
The central region contains the counties of Alger, Delta, Dickinson,
Marquette, Menominee, and Schoolcraft.
Source:
1970 U.S. Census
The educational level for Ishpeming Township closely follows that of
the central region, both having
education.
3E.. 6% of the population with a high school
It is slightly lower than that of the County as a whole, which
is surprising since the Township had the third highest family income of all
the townships in the County in 1970.
The higher level of education in the
City of Marquette in understandable because of the Northern Michigan University staff and the large percentage of government em:ployment in the city.
The percentage of higher education in the To~nship is relatively low compared to the other units.
Age Distribution.
future of the region.
Age distribution poses serious implications for the
Both the youngest and oldest age groups make the
greatest demands on the community for social and welfare services, such as
education, recreation, and medical care.
all
Yet, they are the least able of
age groups to contribute to meeting the cost of these programs.
The
financialrburden, via tax .payments, therfore, falls on those gainfully em-
0
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Sex Distribution by Age Groups
1970
Female
Male
~
Number
Bercent
Number
Percent
0-20
21-44
45-64
65+
586
317
178
90
46.1
24.9
21.9
7.1
507
356
247
76
42.7
30.0
20.8
6.4
TOTAL
1271
Source:
1186
1970 U.S. Census
In order to get an idea of the predominate living units, a breakdown
of the types of households in the Township is provided below.
Count of Persons by Household
Relationship and Sex
Male Primary Individual
Female Primary Individual
Male Head of Household
Female Head of Household
Wife of Head
Child of Head
Other Relative of Head
Nonrelative
TOTAL
Source:
40
44
576
79
493
1125
68
32
2!,57
1970 U.S. Census
As can be seen, a family unit with a male head was the dominant type
of household in 1970.
Issues and Problems
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Ishpeming Township experienced considerable growth during the last
three decades, increasing from 1,311 persons in 19~0 to 2,457 persons in 1970.
�CIIAPTl!J? I I
NATURAL FEATURES AND ID;SOURCES.:.
Introduction
Ishpeming Township is an area of natural beauty with towering rock
bluffs and bedrock formations, dense hardwood forests, countless freshwater etrsarno and lakea, and abundant wildlife.
The relatively low pop-
ulation of the Township has saved the area from urban blight and the consequent estrangement frorn the natural environment.
Nevertheless, the
Township lies adjacent to an area that contains valuable mineral resources
which have led to economic growth and an in~reasing population.
Because
of this growth, the Township must recognize the problems that an increased
population brings, and take steps to preserve its natural resourceso
Se-
parate planning and development decisions, made without regard for the intricate balance existing between the different resources of the ecosystem,
can lead to devastating results, such as the massive destruction of the
forests that occurred nemrly a century ago.
The :proper use of natural resources fulfills several roles which ~re
discussed in this chapter.
The ~ise use of natural resources fulfills an
ecological role by providing
a
healthful area with clear water and air,
healthy vegetation, and needed wildlife; an economic _role by ensuring good
soils for agricultw>~ 9 forests for lumber, minerals for excavation, and
sources for employment; a recreation role by meeting the growing need for
a variety of outdoor activities; and an amenity role by preserving and developlng the landscape to enhance the beauty and liveability of the area.
The natural features and resource section of the comprehensive plan should
be used aa a guide for making sound zoning regulations anddavelopmental decisions.
Topographz.
Ishpeming Township contains dramatic shifts in topography as can be
seen in Figure 1. The land changes from flat plains and rolling hills in the
south to rock cliffs and hilly terrains interspersed with large bedrock outcroppings in the north.
Low lying marsh areas occur mainly in the southern
part of the Township around Deer Lake, the Carp River, Big Mud Lake, and the
western half of the Dead River Storage Basin. The heavy regular snowfall,
�the varying topography, and numerous bodies of water make the Township excellent for year-round recreational activity.
geologic History
The igneous and metamorphic rock outcroppings that are scattered through. out the Township are of the lower and middle Pre-Cambrian Age.
During the Pa-
leozoic ~ra, the present sequence of gently dipping sedimentary rock which overlie the Pracambrian rock uere deposited.,
These sedimentary rocks vary in
thickness since they were laid down on an irrogular erosional surface.
The
action of glacial ice, during the Pleistocene Epoch, profoundly altered the
landscape of the aren ..
Glacial deposits, varying in depth from zero to 300
feet, have probably been the most important factor in determin~ng the present
topogr~phy.
Ruman activities appear to be the only significant f~ctor that
could alter the landscape within the foreseeable future.
Ishpeming Township's topographic and geological features provide some
natural determinants which, when coupled with human-made featuras, begin to
suggest a developmental pattern for the Township.
The following natural frea-
ture.s and geologic conditions must be considered in the planning process and
used as a guide to sound zoning proposa:Jsand regulations.
Bedrock Geology
Bedrock is tha solid rock at or near the earth's surfa~e, which is generally concealed by layers of loose fragmented rock.
Thase layers may have
formed in place by the decomposition of the underlying parent rock, or they
may be an accumulation of foreign rock fragments transported and deposited
by wind, water,. or ico.
Land use is often determined by bedrock geologic conditions. The distribution and character of mineral deposits are governed by bedrock conditions.
For example, iron formations occu?! vitliin the Middle Prf:cambrian sedimentary
rock.
Bedrock geology is also related to the occurrence of ground water.
The
quantity and quality of well water varies with the type of bedrock and the
overlying materials thorugh which the water must pass.
The water capacity for
the two types of bedrock found in the Township are described below and the location of the bedrock can be seen in Figure 2.
�Precambria~
This bedrock underlies almostl
excluding the northeastern tip.
l of ffishp~ming Township,
These ancient igneous and metamorphic rocks
have highly variable water capacities.
In the upland areas, most wells will
fail to obtain enough water for domestic pusposes.
In valleys having more
than 20 feet of permeable drift, wells drilled a few feet into the underlying
bedrock may yield enough water for domestic purposes.
than 10 gpm.
A few may yield more
Drilling more than 100 feet into this bedrock is ususally futile.
Jacobsville Sandstoneo
This sandstone nicks the northeastern corner of
the Township and is an important source of water..
Al though this sandstc-ne is
over 1,000 feet tinck most wells tap water at less than 100 feet.
As with all
bedrock, permeability decreases with depth due to the tremendous
pressure that
squeezes together the joints and fractures..
Water from the JacobmziH.e is ge-
nerally moderately hard to hard, and locally it contains objectionable amounts
of iron and chlorides.
Surficial Geology
Surficial geology deals with the composition, areal distribution and thickness qf soil and rock materiala in the uppermost portion of the earth's crust.
In Ishpeming Township, these ~ear-surface materials are primarily unconsolidated
debris left by the melting of glaciers approximately 10 1 000 to '11,000 years ago.
Host of these materials, ranging in size from clay to boulders, were transported
and deposited by glacial ice.
These areas are called tills. A: few of the depo-
sits, such as outwash, were deposited by melted streams and consist mainly of
well sorted sand and gravel.
Surficial geology has definate effects on vegetation and land use.
Areaa
of knobby terrain and thin surficial cover tend to be areas of mining acticities
and related mineral produetion.
The hilly m~raine areas where surficial cover
is thisker are used for crops and pasture.
Surficial geology is also related to
surface water flow in that infiltration and runoff is directly governed by the
permeability of the underlying materials.
discussed below.
Its relationship to ground water is
Activites such as increased farming, mining, and urban de-
velopment could locally increase the rate of erosion and significantly alter
the present geologic environment within the immediate future.
The location of
deposited materials in the Township can be seen in Figure 3.
Swamp Deposits and Recent Alluvium.
Swamp deposits and recent alluvium
consist of sand, silt, clay, peat, and muck which have accumulated in low areas since the retreat of the glaciers.
Both the composition and thickness of
these deposits are extremely variable, and material types and depths at speoific locations are determinable only by sampling and drilling.
The general wet
nature of these materials presents construction problems for most types of fa-
�cilities.
Water ~ields are similar to lak~ plain yie~ds.
These deposits occur in low areas around Big Mud Lake and the western
portion of the Dead River Storage Basin.
Glacial Outwasho
.Outvash areas
consist of stratified sands and gravels
which have washed out beyond the glacial front by maltwater.
Very coarse se-
diments were generally deposited near the ice front; finer sands and silts
were laid down farther out on the outwash plain.
Most outwash deposits are
tens of feet thick, but aome are hundreds of feet thick in local areas.
The
porosity and permeability of outwash are much greater than till, and it is
normally soft or moderately hard.
In some areas water may contain objection-
able amounts of iron.
Outwash deposits cover fairly large areas in the southwaatern, mideastern, and northeastern sections of the Township.
Glacial No:r:,iine.
One of tho moat prominent glacial features is the u-
nique hilly terrain, called moraines, left after the glaciers 1 retreat.
Most
of these moraines originated at a stabilized front of an active glacier, where
the forward movement of ice equaled the melting rate.
In such a situation,
large quantities of ground-up rock melt out of the ice and are deposited in
ridges parallel to the ice front; called an end moraine.
The area adjacent
to the end moraine in the direction of glacial retreat may be characteri~ed
by gentle r olling terrain.
These areas are underlain .by till and sometimes
referred to as ground moraines.
Permeability varies greatly being low in
clayey till and high in outwash areas.
Moraines are a source of domestic
water supply and some areas may yield moderate supplies of water.
Morainal
depoaits can reach a depth of over 300 feet.
Morainal deposits occur in large areas throughout the central portion of
the Township.
Glacial Till-Bedrock.
Bedrock is generally unweatherod and hard, because
the weathered rock has been scoured avay by the glaciers.
Bedrock e~sures
occur in many arenr. and in unexposed areas is generally at a depth of at least
6•.
The bedrock is composed of metamorphic rock types of the Precambrian age
and is a poor source of ground water.
All exposed bedrock outcrops should be
considered unripp~ble.
Bedrock occurs in scattered areas throughout the Township.
19
�4
· SLOPE
SLOPE
II
II
0-10
11-20
4 6 or g re a_t e r
scale 1n miles:.
I .,
0
E3t#&N
2
.. 3
N
�7·
f igure 5
1
3
SOil ASSOCiATIOf~ S
3
~ - associatioil number
2
scale
1n
miles
I ·
I
unru-n
0
1
2
3
N
�5. Kalkaska association: Deep, nearly level and gently sloping, well drained
and moderately well drained soila that have coarse textured subsoils.
Here again the soil ie not suitable for resource production uses but well
suited for intensive uses.
AREAS DOMINATED BY ORGANIC SOILS ON Ul'LANDS
6. Carbondale-Rifle-Tawas association: Nearly level, very poorly drained
organic soils.
These soils are poorly suited for either of tha usea because of unusual
wetness and organic soils present.
AREAS DOMINATED BY INTIMATELY ASSOCIATED LOAMY SOILS AND SANDY SOILS ON
UPLANDS
7. Kalkaska-Gogebic association: Deep, sloping to strongly sloping, well
drained soils that have coarse textured to medium textured subsoils.
The assoica.tion rates poor for resource production uses and suitable
for i11tenaive uses.
...
�viding food and cover.
Mixed forests of apruce, fir, birch, and aspen aro
found in the unfertile outwash. soils, giving way to stands of aspens or lush
willow in poorly drained areas.
Bogs and depressions, characterized by high
acid mucky peat soils and thin and roclcy or sandy soils have little value as
cropland or pasture because few types of vegetations are suited to these areas.
Sandy and silty loam aoils ~hich have been cleared are saitable for
pasture land, but forests and woodlands clearly dominate the landscape.
The
types of vegetation in the Township can be seen in Figure 6Q
Wildlife
The original forests condi~iona were dramatically altered with the advent of logging at the turn of the century ..
Wildfires were probably never
uncommon, but because of the mosaic-like distribution of vegetative cover
and soil types they were also never very extensivae
Large scale clear cut-
ting destroyed this natural pattern cf firebrakes n:id allowed nurnerous larg~
fires to sweep across the p~ninsula between 1920 and ·1927, eo that changes
wrought by the axe were intensified by the flame.
Some animal species of the
deep, unbroken woods like the pine mar·ten, fisher, ond cougar disappeared com-
pletely, whereas a species like the coyote flourished with the extenaion of
humans into the forest.
Others like the wolf and lynx were able to retreat
before the timber cutter to the moat inaccessible habitat possible, where a
few remnant populations exist today.
oome animals, such as the pine me.rten,
fisher, otter, beaver, mink, muskrat, and black bear, suffered serious depletion because they were . valued
for fur and meat.
bear survived by virtue of their adaptability.
The mink, muskrat, and black
The elk and moose are extir-
pated species well adspted to a variety of habitats, but are hunted and are
not compatible with human activity.
The reverse situation occurred for many species who thrived on the vegetation in the clear-cut fields~
White-tailed deer, ruffled grouse, short-
tailed grouse, and snowshoe rabbit favored the large unbroken openings.
Ani-
mals that may have originally been absent from the region like oppoasum, fox
squirrel, thirteen-lined ground squirrel, and eastern mole, moved in.
In the
late 1930•s a major effort waa mode to reforest l~rge areas of tho Upper Peninsula.
This reversion back to a forested vegetative cover is resulting in a
lose of open and semiaopen habitat, which will eventually alter the type of
animal species again.
Deer •. The white-tailed deer is the most important game species in the
27
�area and their numbers are declining significantly due to depleted deer
ranges.
The total acreage of deer yards in the County is decreasing.
The
Dtm is currently bringing as many yards aa posaible under intensive manage-
ment.
Fish.
In cold streams and lakes brook trout and two forms of lake
trout are native to the area, while successful exotica include brown and
rainbow trouco
Large rivers and streams that mre too warm for trout have
fairly good populations of small mouth bass and northern pike, while other
warm water species like yellow perch, rock baas and bluegill dominate the
warm water lakes.
Fishing quality remains good and fishing pressures are
probably below that which the area could support.
Fish management activities
carried out by the DNR and the Forest Service include chemical rehabilitation,
fish stocking, and access development.
Waterfowl.,
A weather corridor of the Atlantic fiyway lies directly
over parts of Ishpeming Township.
ducks use this route annually.
An estimated 26,0CO to 75~000 diving
In addition to the migratory waterfowl
coming from breeding grounds far to the north, there are 12 to 15 species
kno~m locallyo
In addition to other watarfowl projects, the DNR is flooding
a number of small areas to provide more habitat for all wetland gan1e species,
both resident and migratory.
Future Statuse
The future of the mammals and birds, particul~rly ec(»o,
nomically important species like daer and grouse, depends almost entirely
upon the extent humans ar~ willing to indefinately a~rest the process of ·
secondary .forest succession or selectivity direct and control its progress.
Controlled hunting, trapping, and the disuse of pesticides will be particularly important for sorne endangered species, as will the establishment and
continuation ofwilderness or minimal-use areas.
The endangered, threatened,
or introduced species in the area are the eastern timber wolf, Canada lynx,
pine marten, fisher, moose, gray fox, southern bog lemming, water shrew, and
eastern pipistrelle.
The endangered birds in the area are the peregrine fal-
con, double-crested cormorant, Cooper•s hawk, red-shouldered hawk, osprey,
bald eagle, piping plover, loggerhead shrike and marsh hawk.
Multiple eagle
nesting sites are located in the southern part of the Township.
The preservation of wildlife depends ver:, much on land and water use
practices and on the degree foresters and wildlife managers are able to work
together in manipulating soil, vegetation and surface water impoundments to
�extremely cold drJ air which dominates the area until storms moving up from
the south can displa~e them.
The climate is an air masa controlled climate
Hnd because of this is relatively unpredictable as to severity from year to
year.
One of the moat valuable resources of Ishpeming To~mahip is the abundaace
of fresh water.,
There is t~e Dead River Storage Basin and the Deer :Lake Basin,
which account for 3,601 acres.
The Bear, Silver Mine, Rock, Cooper, and Big
Mud lakes cover another 183 acres.
The main ri,rers include the Carp, Dead,
Big and Little Garlic, and Yellow Doge
The Township also contains many tri-
butary creeks and small lakes and ponds.
An inv~ntory of Marquette County 1 :s
lakes, ponds, and reservoirs can be found in the Michigan Lske Inventory Bulletins, available from tha Michigan Department of Natural Resourcea Development.
The surface wat:ar resources of the Township are not extensively developed
at the present time because of the relatively low population and lack of urbanization.
this time.
Pollution of streams, lakes, and rivers is not a great problem at
Effluent f r om domestic septic tanks may cause local contamination
in some stre~ms.
With increased development, more efficinet waste-water treat-
me11t methods may be required at some locations.
Of particular concern is the amount of sediment allowed to enter the surface water from land adjacent to waterways.
Sediment degrades water quality,
\
destroys natural plant growth, transports nutrients, and decreases the water
carrying capacities of water courses.
The lowest sediment yields in the
Township can be expected from areas of exposed bedrock and areas of glacial
outwash deposits due to the coarseness of the materials.
However, increaaed
development and recreational use of lakes and streams and poor farming practices greatly increase sedimQnt yieldso
Some methods that should be employed
to minimize this problem include tributary diversions, seeding of ba:re hillsides, grading and minimized land al.terations.
Because water resources are so important for recreation, domestic use,
agriculture, dilution of waste water, and industry, they should be protected
and used in a: manner that •will ensure their quantity and quality for the f\i~
ture.
31
�7
■
Area .Producing
Meta ilie n1inerals
j! :1
Dense Mine Areas
Area \~ith
Potential Significance
Roe f< Quarry
scale
1n
miles:
I .
0
2
3
N
�ownership is a significant factor in determining the best possible developmental pattern since so much land is owned by corporations and probably not
available for development.
Issues and Problems
Secondary forest succession is destroying the open habitat of several
species such as the white tailed dee:t and grouse,, The decreasing acreage of deer yards and depleted deer ranges have led to a decline in
the nurebers of white tailed deer.
Controlled hunting and trapping, and the disuse of pesticides is important to some endangered species, as well as the establishment and
continuation of wilderness and minimal use areas.
-
Water fowl management is needed to improve opportunitias to utilize this
resource. New floodings, planned refuges, and feeding areas must be developed to attract and hold these birds.
-
Activities such as increased farming, mining, and urban development
could loca~ly increase the rates of erosion and significantly alter
the present geologic environment within the immediate future.
In the expectation of increased future use and development, provisions
should be included in a zoning ordinance to protect steep areas from
the hazards of erosion and unneeded financial expencl.i ture, both public
and private.
County forests as a whole are in poor shape; the forest industry is in
poor shape; and the utilization of the forest resource is poor. There
is an over-utilization of high-quality hardwood and an under-utilization
of small and low quality hardwood .. Forest based industries need to be
expanded to remove the present surplus of low-grade wood.
-
There is a lack of forest management on forest land owned by non-industrial landownerso Expanded and improved forest management can also contribute substantially to improving the habitat for wildlife.
The in~ortance of both medium grade and extensive low grade metallic
mineral deposits is increasingo By the year 2000, the Lake Superior
district will be the principal domestic source of ore. Although no
mines are currently operating in the Township, the iron ore mining industry will be impor~ant to the economy of the Township and company
policies on land acquisition, development over known deposits, waste
disposal, future expansion, and life of deposits should be inputs to
the Township Zoning Ordinance.
-
Both soils and geology need to be considered in future pollution control
measures. Sanitary landfills and sewage lagoons must be located in a
areas where ·soils and bedrock are suitable for these purposes.
35
�Employed Persons 14+ Years by Industry
Ra.>lk
Industn
Total
Percent
1.
Mining
287
35.70
2.
Wholesale & Retail Trade
114
14 .. 21
3.
Professional and Related
Services
101
12 .. 60
Manufacturing, Durable Goods
35
4o40
Hanufacturing, Non-Durable
Gooda
5.,
6
Cumulative
Percent
Male
Femia le
l:,1
60
27
8
39
10
29
Industr-j' Not Repoi•tad
60
35
25
Construction
42
30
12
Transportation
32
27
5
Business & Repair Services
23
13
10
Personal Services
22.
2 .. 70
9
10 ..
Public Administration
21
2.,60
18
13
3
11.
Finance 9 Insurance~ and
Real Estate
18
2o20
8
10
Entertainment and Recreation
Services
10
1.20
100.0
5
5
0
0
100 .. 0
0
0
1,052.4
555
4.
9.
12.
Agriculture, Forest!"J" and
Fisheries
TOTAL
1
804
62.4
66.8
8804
91.3
94.o
96.6
Cumulative percent is plotted on the Lorenz-Curve, Figure
Source:
1970 Census
Employment Diversity
One measure of economic stability is an evaluation of employment diversity.
A well diversified labor force will minimize the economic hard-
ship produced by the elimination of an employment sector.
ship has a low level of diversification.
Ishpeming Town-
The highest concentrations of
people are employed in mining ( 35. 7%), wholesale and retai 1 trade ( 14. 2%) ,.
and professional and related services (12.6%). According to the 1970 census, there is no employment inthe forestry, agriculture, and fisheries
industry; and a lov level of employment (below
3%)
in finance, insurance,
�T!JI' AL
Etvd'I.OY!-.1)
ll,\/liK
t.
2.
I, 1611,540
!V1:,m1f:ictul'in9
Clll',llL,\Tl VE
"~i!'Lun:o
•'
'"
curv,u-
l
ll:\NK
STllY
LATIVt:.
'#,
EMPLOYED
91
32.6
32.6
l',ai,ufocturing
54
19.3
51.9
3.
Professional and
Related s,~rvices
28
10.0
61.9
1.
Transportation nnd
Communication
23
8.2
70.1
I.
8J -l ,'1J I
:
TOTAi.
f:l'-,l'LOYEO
t,·; lnlng
:M.64
Prnf,~s~ ion.1 I and
HeL1tL'd Sc-r,·ices
3.
'N
59,38
\o/ho1<·sale~~ ()Cld
Retail Tritde
4')·1,227
-1.
Tr;,n,;portation
170,JOS
5.04
79.07
5.
C0nst1·uction
153,637
4.61
83.68
5.
Wlioles.:ilc & llctail
22
7.9
78.0
Fin:ulcc, Insurance,
Real Estat,:-
21
7.5
85.5
3.36
87.54
6.
6.
7.
Construction
130,464
lndustrr Not Reported
20
7.2
9?..7
7.
Public ,\dministrntion 12'1, 954
3.70
91, 24
8.
Personal Services
8.
Personal Services
116, 185
3.44
94.68
9.
Public .Ac..lminisctration
9.
Business and llclatcd
Services
10.
11.
8J,338
Agriculture, Forestry,
Fislwries
58,707
74.03
2.47
97. 15
93.89
1. 74
Enlel'tn inrnent and
Recreation
21,677
.64
99.53
12.
t,,ining
13,880
.41
100.00
13,
Industry not Reported
0
0
100.00
10.
_11.
12.
13.
3,372,548
INDUSTRY
I,
Professional and
Related Services
2.
5
1.9
100.0
Recrc.ntion
0
0
100.0
Finance, Insurance, and
Real Estate
O
0
100.0
Business and Related
Services
0
0
100.0
Agriculture, Forestry,
and Fisheries
0
0
100.0
279
100.0
1,070.8
Entertainment and
100.00 1,099.83
~IAKQlJ ~;rrn COUNTY Ei'lPLOYi'v, r.NT
RANI,.
93.1
ISHPEl'll:,G CfTY Ei'IPLOYMENT
1
CUMU-
TOT.AL
EMPLOYED
%
LATIVE
H ·IPLOYED
o/o
5,309
27.4
CUi\'iU-
•',.
LJ\TIVE
TOTAL
EMPLOYED
E~1PLOYED
RANK
fNDUSTRY
1,
Mining
804
27. l
27. 1
2.
Wholesale and Retail
Trade
677
22.8
19.9
Professior.al and
Related Services
444
15.0
64.9
27.4
Wholesales and Retail
Trade
4,127
21.2
48.6
3.
Mining
3,210
16.4
65.0
4.
Public Administration
1,435
7.6
72.6
4.
l'·J anuiacturing
312
10.5
75.4
5.
Transportation and
Commuuication
160
5.4
80.8
6.5
79.1
5.
5.
Public .~dministration
1,302
6.
6.
/vianufacturing
1,227
6.3
85.4
Transportation and
Communication
158
5.3
36.1
7.
Persa1al Services
850
4.5
89.9
7.
Industry Not Reported
140
4.7
90,8
8.
Constnx:tion
748
3.9
93.8
8.
Personal Services
95
3.2
94.0
9,
l'in-,nce, Insurance, and
Real Estate
9.
597
3.2
97.0
Finuncc, Insurance, and
Real Estate
65
2.2
96.2
!lusin<>ss and Helated
Set",icPs
10.
Construction
63
2. l
98.3
3•10
1.8
98.8
11.
Agricultu1·e, For·cstry,
a11c..l Fisheri£:s
23
.8
!lusiness and Related
Scr·vicc,s
19
.6
3.
10.
It.
,\fJriculture, Fore~! 1·y,
and l'isherii,s
i66
.8
99.6
1~.
12.
• Entc..-rtainnu~nr nnd
RPC1"t"'•;:1t ion s,. t·,·ices
75
l:l.
13.
Industry Not Report<Jd
0
1'),J>l(i
99.7
100.6
0
100.0
100.0 1,037.2
Entc-1·tairirnent ,,net
llec:rcation Srr\"lccs
9
.3
100.0
2,96?
100. 0
!. (ll,:!. :J
1 CunH11~1t lvc tolills wcr~ plottc•d 011 ti1e l.orc•!17.-Cu.-v,-' in ot·<lt-r to tn~a.sure lndt1~trial r!ivPr.• dc;1tion.
}9
1
�FIGURE 9
LORENZ
CURVE
100
95
90
85
80
75
70
65
a
LI.I
>-
60
C
.J
0..
~
55
I-
50
w
z
w
q
0:::
w
45
0..
40 .
35
30
25
20
15
10
5
0
2
3
4
6
5
INDUSTRY
BY
4oa
RANK
7
ORDER
�Table l i I
Marguette Counti
Total Business Establishments & Payrolls
( excludes government employees, railroad employees, & self-employed persons)
Number of Employees
Number of Establishments With
Payrolls
Taxable Pa:rrolli Jan.-Mar.
($1,000)
% Char.ge
o/_,
1970
1975
1970-1975
11,588
13,095
13.0o/o
116,778
10
12
20.0o/o
I
3,120
A
NA
407
504
1,318
ransportation, Comm uniations and Public Utilities
fholesale Trade
'otal
~griculture, Forestry,
.nd FisheriEs
.
1ining
:ontract Construction
'1 anufacturing
1970
1975
1970
1975
o/o Change
1970-1975
946
1,158
22.2o/o
Char:ge
1970-1975
27,656
64. WYo
16
12
-25.0o/o
4
7
75.0o/o
6,841
(D)
NA
9
(D)
NA
23.So/o
752
1,299
72. 7o/o
1,181
-10.3o/o
1,834
2,298
522
654
25.3o/o
1,002
604
731
21.0o/o
969
I
71
94
32. 4o/o
25.2o/o
I
I
56
55
-1. 8o/o
1,693
68.9o/o
I
36
45
25.0o/o
2,000
106.Jo/o
71
91
28.2%
339
386
13.Bo/o
NA
87
100
14.9%
103.9%
280
316
17. Oo/o
3
51
1600.0o/o
·--
2,607
etail Trade
inance, Insurance, and
eal Estate
533
ervices
3,251
24. 7o/o
NA
B
2,261
3,816
723
(D)
2,439
3,115
27. 7o/o
2,372
4,837
8
100
1150.0o/o
8
51
nclassified Est.ablishm ents
68.7%
900.~
'j
,t
2,500 -4,999 employees
500 - 999 employees
I;
Withheld to avoid disclosure of operations of individual establishments
ource:
County Business Patterns, 1970 and 197 5.
---
·-
�Employed Persons 16 Years+ by Occupation
County
Number
Township
Perc@nt .
Professional and
Technical
2,929
15.1%
107
13.5%
Managers and Proprietors, excapt farm
1,362
7.Cf/o
46
Clerical and Sales
4,401
22 .. 7%
146
5 .. 8%
18.4%
Craftsperson
2,721
Operative a
2,567
14.0C/4
13.2%
197
159
Drivers
955
4.9%
30
Laborers, e,rcept farm
790
4.o%
26
97
.. 5%
0
3,303
261
17.0%
77
9.7%
1.3%
2
.6%
Farm
&
Farm Laborers
Service
Private Household
TC'TAL
Source:
19,386
2L~.,8%
20.1%
3.8%
3.3%
0
793
1970 Census
The three largest occupations for Marquette County are clerical and
sales, service, and professional and technical.
The three largest for tha
Township are clerical and sales, craftspersons, and operatives.
The last
two directly relate to the. mining industry.
A rapidly increasing sector of the work force is women.
In 1970,
women made up 31% of the work force in Ishpeming Township a.-id ere now
probably near the 1977 state level of 4056. According to the Michigan Department of Labor, women earn 60% of what men earn, and women find it
difficult to enter all save a few traditional vocatio~...f3. In 1970, the
highest percentage of woman in the Township were employed in the traditional clerical fdelds (41.4%) and service work (20.9%), 12.9% of whom
were food service workers. Moat of the professional women (19.7%) were
employed in the traditional fields of nursing (7.2%) and teaching (4.0%).
44
�No figures are currently available for the number of w~lfare reci-
However, figures are available for
While per capita income has increased, po-
pients residing in Ishpeming Totmship.
the County and central region.
verty in the central region remains very high.
In terma of the total fami-
lies living in poverty, the central region has '11.2% and the state 7.3%.
The percentage of families in the region receiving public assistance is 17.9%,
four times greater than -i.:he state percentuge of 4e2"/b.
When considering unre-
lated individuals living in poverty, the regional percentage of 12.4 is over
two and a half times grea-ter than the state percentage of 4.9.
i.ag table displays caseload:.:; by county.
The follow-
Narquette County contains
34% of
the assistance cases in the six county central region.
Assistance Cases - July 1977
Marguette
Central Region
Aid to Dependent Children
840
General Assistance
103
2058
297
Food Stamps
364
1347
Medical Assistance
592
1906
1902
5588
TOTAL
Source:
Assistance Payment Statistics 9 Department of Social Services
Income
Income is one measure of a community's wealth.
The income of a com-
munity's residents is relied upon to finance private as well as public improvements.
In 1970, the total aggregate income for families in the Town-
ship was $6,244,950 and for unrelated individuals it was $218,900.
dian family income range was $8,000 to $9,000.
The me-
In 1970, the average family
income was $9,534, which placed the Township third in rank among the other
Only Michigamme and Chocolay townships had higher
average family incomes. The average income for all males in the Township
14 years and o~der was $5,710 and for females 31,468.
townships in the County.
I
,.
�Local Ernployera
Eomloyees
Total
1.
2.
School - Westwood, North Lake, and
West Ishpeming
92
Mather Nursing Home
60
Part-Time
3. Miracle IGA Market
40
4o
Ishperniug Steel Corporation
5.
60
79
8.
9.
Northern Tire Shop
30
17
Dentist's Office
15
Hooper-Stanaway Ford Garage
14
Sawyer-Stoll Wood Preserving Company
1l•
Township Staff
12
2
100
Snyder Drug Store
11
2
11$
Ted's Paint Store
10
120
Ace Hardware Store
6
13. Bonovich Builders
7
14.
Pajula and Maki Contractors
150
16e
Poirier's Motel and Gas Station
Juntti Service Station
5
4
17.
Triangle Motel
9
2
4
3
18. Pen West Bank
2
19.
Pete 9 s Service Station
2
20.
Sunnyside Estates Mobile Home Park
2
21.
Ruona Excavating
1
22.
Suburban Motel
1
23.
Joan's Beauty Shop
1
TOTAL
Source:
28
353
3
46
Marquette County Planning Commission Telephone Survey, 1978
According to the above list made in 1978, there are approximately 353
jobs within the To~mship.
the Township.
In 1970, there was s work force of 804 people in
The County's work force has grown by an average of 7.2:J{, per
48
�CHAPTER !V
LAND USE
Introduction
The variety of land uses observable on the landscape are n result of
many influences, both human imd natural.
Land uses that have develop,a d in
the township are a result of the decisions made by many individuals, families, business people and government officials and, aa such, are not a pro-
duct of comprehensive planningo
Rather, the present development patter;1
can be attributed to tradition, economic influences, changing social patterns, etco
Such land use practices have resulted in haphvzard develop-
ments and ra:i.xetl land use probl~ma.
'l~~us, careful decisions and efficient
allocation of land for various uses at appropriate locations are necessary
for deriving th~ maximum benefits of land use and to improve the quality
of living.
In m~der to do this, it ia necessary to understand the existing
patterns of land u.se ~nd the possible
limiting factors thet could influ-
ence futura developments and potentials of land use in Ishpeming Town~hipo
The analysis was conduc-1:ed at two levels .. Information gathered from
secondary sources vas obtained and geuerai trends were analyzed. Land uaa
information was also obtained through field inspection and analyzed on an
individual basise The following objectives were established to guide the
analysis.
-
Determine the typ~j character and amount of each major land useo
-
Evaluate the a~propriateness of past land use practices. ·
-
Identn·y potentials and J.irni tationa for expansion of residential, commercial, •industrial and public land uses.
-
Identify the areas that are suitable for intensive development and that
have high resource production potential. ·
-
Evaluate the land ownership pattern and its impact on land usa.
Provide a source of information for future planning and possible revisions of development controls.
Location and Size
Ishpeming Township is north centrally located in Marquette County and
occupies 92.5 square miles or approximately
5% of the total County area.
Townships bordering Ishpeming Township include Powell to the north, Champion
and Ely to the west, Tilden to the south, and Marquette and Negaunee to the east.
The cities of Negaunee and Ishpeming make up the Township's southeast boundary.
50
�available and more expensive, forcing people to locate in the surrounding
townships.
Recently, the expansion of the Cleveland Cliffs mining opera-
tions has resulted in in-migration, and development in the township ia expanding to meet the needs of an increasing population.
Factors Affecting Land UBe
Land use change has been the result of various decisions made by individuals, families, business persons, public agencies and so forth.
It io
of significance to note that the decisions m~de by various individuals and
groups are oriented to their own self-interest and that there is usually no attempt made to coordinate their activities for overall community improvement
or to consider the effect of such development on eurrounding land uises, utilities, services, etc. This haphazard decision-making process has often
resulted in scattered develepments and incorni,atible land uses.
Public agencies such as federal, state, county 9 and 'oit;y governments
play a very important role in land use changes.
The federal government exer-
cizes a number of resp~naibilities that affect land use through various loan
and grant programs for such p~rposea aa plam1ing, public housing, urban renewal, water and sewers etc.
Other than funding, they have little control
on the direction and magnitude of land use change.
T~e role of State has traditionally been limited to providing enabling
legislation to local go·~ernmen"tB to regulate growth and developments. However, some of the decisions rnade by the State, such as highway location, ~ill
obviously affect land use changes~ If public health powars were stringently
exercized by the State, it would affect land use changes in areas dependent
upon septic tanks for aevage disposal.
Among other factors, the transportation system has a great influence on
land use changes.
The expanding highway network has permitted the small town
and rural residents to commute to larger cities for employment and specialized
services, which in turn has exerted major influences on the land use patterns
within the communities.
Tha increased mobility offered by the highways has
also facilitated the strip development of rural non-farm residences along
these highways, ·thus influencing land use change from agriculture .or forestry
to residential.
At the same time, the increased mobility has placed additional
demands on outdoor recreational facilities in rural areas, thus influencing
land use conversion processes.
52
�Some scattered residential development has taken place along County Road
510.
Residential atructures consist of the following types:
apartment
buildings, duplexes, single family dwellinga, mobile homes, and attached,
seasonal and vacant dwellings.
Residential areas account for approximately
4'+7 acres.
Commercialo
US-410
Moat commercial establishments are located adjacent to
'fhese establishments include service stations, motels, a f!70ceey
store, a radio shop, a hardware ator~a dentist to office, a bank, and an
auto dealership.
Industrial.
of th9 to~nahip.
Commercial uses account for about ·16 acres.
Industrial uaes are scattered around the southern p~rt
Th@ industries include the . Iahpeming Steel Corporation,
the Sawyer Stoll Wood Preserving Co~, an industrial tire service, construction companies, and the gravel pits.
Industrial uaes account for about
26
ac:r.es.
Public-Quasi Public.
Public uses are located within the develowed areaao
These include the schools, the playgrotmd, chi1rches, the cemetery, tho town-
hall, the fire .hall, the ball diamond, tennis courts 9 snowmobile trails, and
the Elks Club picnic area.
Agricultural.
Public uses account for about 38 acres.
A limit,ed amount of agricultural production is taking
place along county roads GP, GA.A, and 573.
These areas, ~p~roximately 390
acres, are used for pasturage or fodder production.
The above uses can be seen on land use maps 1, 2, tlnd 3- (Figures 12, 13,
14, and 15)
Land
Ownership
The three categories of land ownership utilized in this analysis are
coz,porate, private, and governmental.
listed balow.
The acreage in each category is
�Figure 13
T
I
I1
D€:"1; ~l\'/"'1'1 1•n1
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.TO\VNSHIP
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MAP ONE
It
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I
LAND USE
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ial'
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~!: .:\[:\\:\:\
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�· Figure •15
ISi~~PEfvUNG .TOt'U~!SHIP
LAND USE
MAP 3
LEGEND
0
□
·
·f,,m,,,:5
YEAR-ROUND
□ -RESIDENCES
INTENSIVE SEASONAL
g,,::::M -DEVELOPMENT
58
9
~
SCALE- MILES
�Major Land ~nera
Approximate-
Acreage
1.
Clevelani Cliffs T-ron Company
2.
.Percent of
Total Area
14,600
24 .. 6'.;f.
Gannon Lumber Corp.
6,194-
10.4%
3.
North Woods Products, Inc.
5,3?8
9.1%
4.
U.ti. Steel Copp ••
4,067
2,746
6.. 9%
5. Nakoosa-Edwards Paper Co.
60 Michland, Inc ..
7. Kidder and Gotschall
8. l!;scanaba hllp Co.
9. Longyear Realty Co~.
10.
Connor Forest Industry-
3.9%
2,332
1,707
2.9,6
1,,~o
2 .. 4%
1,300
2 .. 2%
1,280
41,0o4
Source:
4.616
2 .. 2%
69.2%
Marquett2 County Atlas and Plat Book, 1973.
Conclusion
The development patterns in Ishpeming Township range from compact to
scattered and have often occurred in a strip or lineal form along major
roads.
These development patterns can be attributed to several factors
such as soils, highways, topography, accessibility, and land ownerehip.
For example, minimal development has occurred in outlying areas because
of the lack of accessibility and the large percentage of lands owned by
corporations.
Most of the recreational or seasonal development haa oc-
curred along the Dead River Basin.
The intensive land uses have occurred
in the West Ishpeming location because . of the accessibility offered by H\-fY• US-41.
Because of the Township's increasing population and expanding development, several problems need to be addraased in order to ensura orderly·
growth.
One problem is that the commercial strip along highway U.S. 41 is
developing in a haphazard fashion.
With each new establishment, one or
. more driveways are added to U.S. 41, creating potential traffic hazards.
Also, the coat of providing needed utilities and services to lineal developments along major roads is prohibitively high.
60
�Issues and Problems
-
The majority of the Township (98%) land can be categorized as open
space, which means it is· undeveloped.
A limited amount of agricultural production is taking place along
Gounty roads GP, GAA, and 573.
Scattered development is increasing in outlying areas. If not properly planned for, this development may result in higher service and
utilities costs or may cause pollution hazards due to high water tables
or poor soil conditions.
-
Some scattered development has taken place along County Road 510.
A lineal pattern of residential land use has developed along portions
of County roads GP and 573 and around periph':!ral areas of the Dead
River Basin.. Lineal developments result in higher service and util5.ties costs.
-
The commercial strip along highway US-41 is developing in a haphazard
fashion which could result in traffic hazards and in increasing lineal
or strip de,relopment.
Over the last ten years, the demand for industrial, commercial, and
~esidential/recreational land use has increa~ed. However, a limited
supply of land is avaibble since almost 707/J of the land in the Township is corporately owned. ~bis situation has caused a sharp increase
in property values.
62
�Vehicles.
Automobiles, buses, trucks, and trains are the basic vehicle
types operating within the Townahip.
in transporting persons or cargo.
Each has its o~m function and effioiency
In terms of use, on a national level the
auto accounts for approximately 85 to 90 percent of total travel on freeways,
arterials, and local streets.
vel.
Trucks account tor most of the remaining tra-
The number or percentage of trips made by bus or rapid transit varies
widely depending upon density, physical,and economic characteristics of the
study nrea.
Bus and rapid transit services a.re currently not provided
1;1fl
th-
in the To~mship • .
Terminal Facilitieso
A terminal is any facility providing for the de-
livery, receipt, or temporary storage of freight or the vehicle itself~
~bese
facilities also include points of passenger embarkation and areas desig-~ed for
the temporary storage of passenger vehicles.
Off-street parking, garages, and
lots are forms of terminal facili·ties as are railroad yards, airports, truck
terminals, and docks4
T'ne terminal facilities in Ishpeming Township involv~
roadway related stops.
The Circulation Subsystems and the PlanninG Commission
It is essential that the Township Plan.~ing Commission has an understanding of elements of the transportation system and their inter-relationship to be able to plan effectively for the present and future.
Although
all three sub-systems are importimt, the Planning Commission must realize
it has little or no control over the vehicle subsystem.
On the other hand,
the Commission can often make decisions which will directly influence the
maintenance, function, or location of travelways.
The location of terminal
facilities can also be influenced through actions of the Commission, for example, by the creation of off-street parking provisions.
Non-Highway and Extra-Township Trans~ortation
Highways and streets are the primary pathways of transportation within
Ishpeming Township.
However, other modes of transportation provide important
service to Township residents as well.
Air Service.
'.!:he Marquette County Airport, throug~ North Central Air-
lines and a local charter flying company, provides commercial or commuter
passenger and cargo services.
The airport is located approximately 8 miles
�of the County's Motor Vehicle Highway fund, (after an ap~roximate 10% deduction for other e~T,enditures) is alloted for County primary roads.
Town-
ships are not responsible for primary road expenditures.
In Ishpeming Township, 5<Yt6 of the primary roads are not paved and are
conaidered "inadequate'' by the County Road Commission for the amount or
type of traffic they support.
County L-0cnl Roads$
The County local roads within the Township con-
stitute all C.:.mnty roads not included in the primary system.,
I~ should be
noted that the "local" {as well as "primary") designation here represents
a state-county legal classification which pertains primarily to road financing$
It is not to be confused with a later discussion on the functional
classifications (local - collector - arterial) of the Township's roadwayso
Unlike the primary system 1 only 59% (28,.5 miles) of the County local
road network is maintained and plowed on a year-round basis~
Another dif-
ference is ~hat 25% of the previously mentioned Motor Vehicla Highway Fund
is typically utilized for the local ro~ds.
Horeover, property tax revenues
are often necessary for road construction since local county road funds
must generally be matched by local township funds.,
Approximately 33~'6 of
the local county roads are unpaved and are considered "inadequate" by the
Marquette County Road Commission,.
A composite of the type and condition
of the Countr roads within the Township can be seen in Table IV.
With
the exception of the platted areas,•the Township 0 s network of plowed roads
is depicted in
Figure 16.
Classification of Roads
Roads, the primary component of the circulation system, have v~rious
functions.
While many roads carry strictly local traffic, others carry
high volumes of through traffic.
between tha above mentioned types.
Still others serve aa connective links
Roads, therefore, may be categorized
according to( their predominant functions and community service character•
istics.
Several benefits may be realized by road classification:::according
to function.
a.
9
Such a system together with traffic volume information may:
Provide a framework for the formulation of land use policies regarding properties located near or adjacent to roadways.
66
�Figure 116
ISHPEMING TOvVNSHIP
COUNTY
sys-, EM
ROAD
,,----__ COUNTY ROAD {PLOWED)
- - - _ ;. -- C OUN TY R O AD ( U N PLO W E. P)
:
- - ..... -----..-,
_.
"".:
I
..........
'/
I
I
I
I
I
a.
(.'.)
us
41
~)
I
'SEE
:
I
MAP2'
I
MAP I
p
I
I
"---- - - - - - - - J
NIL.ES
g
I
N
I
r
t)
__J
(.9
GK
PO
MAP 2
O
I
i
,12
I
MILES
�Collector.
The collector street or road, also primarily a residential
phenomenon, is necessary for -the efficiency and accomodation of shorterhaul local traffic.
Basically, collector streets will have faster design
speeds, greater right-of-way widths, better grades of pavement, etc., than
local streets.
The primary function of this roadway type is to collect and distribute
traffic between local streets and arterial thoroughfares.
they filter and conduct
Occasionally,
traffic to such local ganerators as shopping cen-
ters,schools, or community centers.
Land access should be
a s~condary
function of a collector and should
be reflected in its operation and design.
ting driveways should be discouraged.
On-street parking and intersec-
As in the case of the local roadway,
a collector often functions as an easement for utilities, as an open space
furnishing light and air, and as a design element in residential areas.
Arterials.
Arterials typically have wider lanes and shoulders, faster
design speeds and less impeded traffic movement than the aforementioned
road types.
The first and moat important funtion of the arteri.::il is to move large
volumes of vehicles, such as cars, trucks, and busses and includes,
as
the
name artery implies, larger trips from geographic point to another.
If possible, access from residential areas to these thoroughfares
should not be via local streets but, rather, by collectors.
Although land
access should be a secondary fu..ction of arterials, owners usually have a
legal right to access.
Historically, traffic brought people, people brought
trade, and trade led to commercial development.
Zoning has tended to per-
petuate the location of commercial strips on many sections of arterials
while the design of streets and the development of abutting properties has
not recognized the problem created by increasing traffic volumes.
Parking
on arterial streets should be discouraged and, fortunately, is one function
that is being increasingly controlled due to the pressure of increased traffic volumes.
The arterial also serves as an easement for utilities and as
an open space, providing light and air.
The greater width of arterials
creates an opportunity for impressive design, but this opportu~ity has seldom been utilized.
Utility poles, advertising signs, billboards, and taste-
less architecture all contribute in making arterials the ugliest streets in
urban America.
�One of its functions is to serve as a collector or connective link be-
tween the above mentioned roads for urban ail,d rural residents of illshpeming
and Tilden Townships.
Another important function of Stoneville Road is that of indirectly
providing access to County Road 476, a vital link between the County work
force and industrial suppliers, and the Tilden and Palmer mining operations.
T'nis twofold function suggests that Stoneville Road be assigned a collector classification.
Other Roads (Collectors).
Becau~e of their distributive and shorter-
haul local traffic characteristics, it is suggested that County Road 583
south of US-41 (RandaJ!Drive) and County Road 583 north of US-41 (North
Lake Road) be designated as local collectors~
The same applies to County
Road 573 (Deer Lake Road) and County Road 510.
All roads or streets which are not shown in Fig.16 should be classified
as local roadwayse
Problem Areas
US-41.
Several problems currently oxist which reduce the effectiveness
of US-41 in moving traffic quickly, safely, and effici.ently through and within the Township.
ao
They are listed as follows:
The thoroughfai'e, a portion of which is only two lanes, was not designed to
carry the large volume of traffic or the heavy loads which it
· now carries.
b.
A number of local residential streets intersect the thoroughfare
since it is the only major arterial through the Township.
c.
Adjacent strip development and accompanying direct access points
have occured along much of the highway's length because of the
favorable commercial demand often associated with arterials.
These problems, if let unchecked, will only be intensified in the future.
The expected increases in To~mship (and County) population and re-
creational activities will increase the demand for effective transportation
facilities.
Unfortunately, the existing conditions limit improvements to pavement
widening, signalization, and channelization.
It is extremely important for
both safety and convenience that improvements to this vital route be made
promptly.
72
�Spot Residential De,relopment.
Continued residential spot development
on seasonal and some rural roads creates havoc with the transportation system and places a burden not only on the County Road Commission but the Town-ship as well.
Various County and Township services are required as outlying
areas are converted to year-round uses.
Because these services involve high
unit time-cost distancesand generally benefit a few people, the cost per person ratio is extremely high in thoselocations.
Land use controls and the abandonment of roads in areas which should
not be haphazardly developed-can allow revenues and other resources to be
used where there is a greater need.
Development on Collectors.
Residential development along collector
type roadwGys presents a very real traffic nazard.
Short sight distances
due to hills and curves typifies many of the Township's collectors.
1"hia,,
especially when combined with the situation -of lots directly fronting these
roads, jeopardizes the goal of safe and efficient traffic movements.
Land
use regulations can be utilized to limit access points along these roadways ..
Sight distances can only be improved as expenditures allow.
Secondnr,- Priority Hems
1.
Consideration should be given to the feasibility and effectiveness
of an official township commuter parking lot. Such a facility
would promote the use of ca-r pools as means of -transportation to
the various e:ctra-township arees of employment.,
2o
Areas with scenic values along roads should be recognized and
preserved or enhanced where possibleo Deed restrictions, limited
tree cuttlng 1 increased building setbacks, the prohibition of unnecessary signs, and related land use controls are some means of
achieving this objective.
3. While allowing for sufficient provisions for road related transport modes, whenever possible the Township should support or encourage alternative mobility methodso Bicycle paths linking recreational areas and open spaces, and hiking-jogging trails leading outward from the urban areas are two examples of alternative
modes.
74
�CHAPTER VI
RECREATION
Introduction
In this chapter of the Ishpeming Township Comprehensive Plan the importance of recreation in sustaining an acceptable condition of living will
be stressed.
The chapter is basically a reiteration of the Ishpeming Town-
ship Recreation Plan.
It's specific purposes are to:
1.
Identify a,1d classify existing recreation resources in the Township.
2.
Identify those resources that serve the ·Township located outside its
boundaries.
3.
Present roles and responsibilities of the Township and County.
4.,
Present elements, natural and human ) influencing projected recreation needs and evaluati-ons.
5.
Recommend goals and objectives which may be used as· guidelines regarding capital improvments and other -policies.
Recreation Administration
The Ishpeming Township Board established a To,...mship Recreation Committee
at it~ February, 1977 board meeting.
bers.
Tne recreation committee has five mema
The members were appointed to the committee by the Township supervisor
with the a1?proval of the Township board.
members before appointments were made.
T'.ae Township board advertised for
The recreation committee regularly
meets on the fourth Tuesday of each month.
The recreation committee is advisory in nature and assists the Township
board in setting recreatio~ development priorities and in recreational program development.
The Township has a general maintenance crew of four people
who have responsibilities for recreational maintenance.
The Township is involved in recreation programming, however, much of the
recreation programming for this part of Marquette County is sponsored by the
NICE School District.
Township funds are budgeted for recreation.
bu~gets for Township recreation.
Below is FY77 and FY78
�Trail Type Facility Inventory
One of the Township's most plentiful recreational resources are its
trailse
Secondary collector roads, railroad grades, electrical, telephone,
and pipeline distribution systems all. supply trails for hunting, fishing,
cross-country skiing, hiking, and off-road vehicles, although most of these
trails are located well outside the residential area.
Al Quall - Snowmobile tr·a il
Cross-Country trail
Ishpeming-Michigamme Snowmobile 'frail
Cooper Lake - Westwood High School Trail
Unofficial Cross-Country trail
Regional Facilities Servfng Ishpeming Townshir_
Facilities outside the Township qualifying as regional or special
~urpose may include:
Presque Isle Park
Van Riper State Park
Shiras Park
Ottowa National Forest
Michigamme State Forest
Escanaba River State Forest
Programs
Ishpeming Township is currently involved in recreational programming
for softball at the existing Township recreation area.
Programming takes
place during the spring and summer months.
All other recreation programs are sponsored by the Community Schools,
NICE School District.
The location of the programming is at the Westwood
High School.
The following programs are offered by the community schools:
Time of Year
Program
Golf
Summer
Basketball
All Jear
Tennis
Summer--
Skii_ng
Winter
78
�Figure II on page 4 of the Ishpeming Township Recreation Plan shows
some possible areas in the Township which were tentatively identified as
potential picnic areas and playground areas.
Further information regarding recreation may be found in the Ishpeming
Township Recreation Plan, dated April, 1977, and the Ishpeming Township Recreation Area
11
Si te Plan" dated 2/10/78.
Issues and Probl6ms
-
There are several key issues which are affecting and may effect recreation development and recreation use in Ishpeming Township. T'ne
issues are:
1. Lack of available land
~" Potential iron ore mining
3~ Population pressures from Tilden Township
4. Increases in population growth
-
The availability of land has been and continues to be an issue of great
concern to the residents of Ishpeming Township .. Many of the efforts to
provide public facilities and areas in this part of Marquette Countj
have
. been thwarted by the lack of available land.
.
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Areas directly north of uS-41, H;.;;28 have kno1:m iron ore deposits.. Mining of this area could effectively split the Township in two. Provision of services to all Township residents would become a major problema
-
The northern -part of Tilden Township, adjacent to the major developed
portion of Ishpeming Township, is experiencing much new developmento
This part of Tilden To,,.mship is more closely geographically-related to
Ishpeming Township than to the remaining part of Tilden Township. This
may cause increased use of the Ishpeming Township recreational facilities
beyond what would be expected based on Ishpeming Township's population.
Ishpeming Township is expected to experience significant population increases over the next twenty years. Based on preliminary CUPPAD population projections, the population of the Township will double by the
year 2000. Planning for future recreational facilties should be done
with this in mind.
Bo
�concentrations have not been high enough to warrant concern or action.
While many municipalities are required to use chlorination, for example,
for disinfection (and occassionally flouridation) the Township's raw water is of
such a quality that it may be pumped directly _from the wells to the distribution
system without treatment.
Distribution Systemo
T'ne TO\•m ship publi~ -water system currently supplies
approximately 845 services.
Of .these, only nonresidential customers are metered
(residential users represent over 9o//o of the accounts).
Township's residences are serviced by the systemo
Approximately~82°/4 of the
Ar~as served by the system are
shotm ;i,n Figure 17.
With the notable exception of one subdivision
bution system basically consists of 6 inch mains.
(the Seilo Plat)
the distri-
Plans are currently under way
to convert the 4 inch main in the Seilo Plat to a 6 inch main.
Adequacy of Supply.
400,000 GPD
The wells currently produce an average of 300,000 to
(gallons per day), the lower figure representing winter consumption
and the latter, summer use ..
From this . it can be seen that the water supply in
Ishpeming Township is adequately supplying present everyday needs.
The system is capable of supplying substantially more water than the Township
presently requires
(including the new subdivisions Westwood I, Westwood II, and
Harrison Hills II)
as long as the wells continue to yield water at their present
rates.
This partially in view of the construction of the aforementioned new well
and storage facility.
Present daily consumption indicates that more than two
days demand of water will be available in storage. (this would also help greatly
in providing sufficient quantities of water for fire fighting purposes).
Wastewater
Ishpeming To~mship has two wastewater treatment plants which currently serve
approximately A:(~
.:,,
. customers.
~.[
·,
The "North Plant" serves the plat of North Ishpeming,
/ l·' I..,. -~part of which is in the 11 Deer Lake area" of the Township, and part of which is in
82
�the City of Ishpeming.
The "West Plant" serves the bulk of the Township's pop-
ulation which is situated from the plat of West Ishpeming westward.
The plants
were built simultaneously in 1962, and provide only primary treatment.
Waste disposal in the unserviced areas of the Township is primarily to individual septic tanks.
A few of the more remote dwellings still utilize pit privies.
While the lot acreage is large enough for safe disposal in many rural areas, land
use intensification~ high water tables, and/or poor soil ~onditions make individual
sewage disposal a health hazard in many ±nstanceso
Roughly 20% of the :population
is rural and without a centralized sewerage system.
The primary water problem in Ishpeming Township involves rehabilitating public
sewage treatmento
The Township is presently under Environmental Protection Agency
orders to upgrade the poorly-treated waste water effluents to federal standards by
1982..
The feasible treatment alternatives to overcome this deficiency as determined
by the Township's engineers include:
lo
A lagoon with irrigatio~ of effluent.
2.
Activated sludge treatment.
3.
Rotating biological discs.
The Tovmship and City of Ishpeming are currently negotiating possible arrangements to consolidate treatment facilities.
Conclusion
Wise planning decisions will be required for the improvement and extension of
the water distribution system as future demands for public water supply increase with
increasing population and expanding development.
The same applies not only to the·
expansion of the sewer system and required treatment facilities, but to the expansion of other utilities as well.
84
�CHAPTER VIII
COMMUNITY FACILITIES
Introduction
Community facilities may be defined as those structures and/or services
~n1ich provide public benefits that are not normally offered by the private
sector.
The number and especially the quality of such facilities often re-
flect the character of airldegree of pride in the community.
Furthermore,
communiiies with high standard structures and facilities are generally more
attractive to desirable industrial and commercial enterprises than similar
communities-with less adequate facilities.
Schools, parks, utilities, cemeteries, libraries, police, fire, and
water and wastewater facilities, and township halls and other public buildings are examples of community facilities.
Those facilities which are dis-
cussed elsewhere in the plan, such as parks and water and wastewater facilities, have been deleted from this chaptero
Structures
Other than those buildings related to water and sewer functions, the
only structure owned and operated by Ishpeming Township ia the t'ownship hall.
Built in 1969, it is located on US-41 near the general population,
size is adequate for present and future needs.
The lot
The brick and concrete build-
ing is in good condition and is eqnipp~d with toilets, electricity and heat.
Although originally designed as a fire hall, the building now provides
rooms for meetings andoffices for Township business as well as housing for
fire fighting equipment.
The building cannot be truly classified as a com-
munity building since, having originally been designed as a fire hall, it
does not have room for community functions such as wedding receptions, youth
programs, senior citizen programs, or related acti~ities.
ture does not provide ready access to the handicapped.
Also, the struc-
The lack of space
also results in relatively cramped working conditions for the Township employees.
86
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CHAPTER IX
HOUSING
Introduction
Ishpeming Township ia experiencing a period of rapid grovth.
The
population is expected to increase by well over 1,000 people between 1970
and 1980.
This growth has had an effect and will continue to exert an ef-
fect on the housing situation in Ishpeming Township.
'l'his chapter identi-
fies what types of homes have been built, when they were built, where they
are located, and what housing problems have developed over the years.
It
also includes population and housing trends and an estimate of projected
housing needs for 1980.
An investigation of ·these elements will enable tha
Township to formulate an overall plan that will effectively meet present
and future housing needs.
Existing Hou?in~ Characteristics
Ishpeming Township contains about
5%
4% of the County's year-round rasidenceso
of the County's land area and about
The 1970 census of housing revealed
that there were 803 housing units within Ishpeming Township.
ded 671 year-round occupied units,
The units inclu-
84 vacant units, 48 seasonal housing units
and 2 mobile homes.
A housing survey carried out by the Marquette County Planning Commission
during April of 1977 revealed that there were 1109 housing units in Ishpeming
Township, 1016 of which were year-rotmd occupied residences.
Of the 1016
JS~r-round occupied residences, 796 were single family, 134 were mobile homes,
62 were in duplexes, 23 were in apartment buildings, and 1 was attached.
year-round units were distributed around the Township as follows:
The
54% in sub-
divisions in Section 7 and 8, T47N-R27W; 13% in Sunnyside Estates mobile home
park (this park contains 97% of the Township's mobile homes); 12% in North
7% in North Lake; 7% along County Road CL and Cooper Lake; and 4%
along County Road 573.
Ishpeming;
Five vacant single family residences were located scattered around various parts of the Township.
an estimate of
Due to snowed-in roads at the tim~ of the aurvey,
83 seasonals, located on or neat the Dead River Basin, was .
made from existing maps and aerial photographs.
88
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some seasonal- dwellings.
Of the 1,016 year-round occupied units located in the survey, 1 1014
were rated as sound and only 2 as substandard.
were rated as substandard and only 3 of the 88 seasonal unite were rated as
subs tandard.
Condition of Housing Units
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Sub-Standard
Sound
Year-Round Occupied Units
Vacant Units Located
Seasonal Units Located
Source:
Percent
Number
Number
Percent
1,014
99.876
2
3
6o.o%
2
85
97.<Ylo
3
Marquette County Planning Commission Housing Study, 1977
As can be seen from the above figures, the condition of housing in
Ishpeming Township is very good.
This can be partially attributed to the
r~lative nev age of the housing supply~
It can be estimated that over
50%
of the housing in the Township has been built since 1950.
Age of Housing Units
Percenta
Year Built
15%
18%
1.5%
32%
Prior to 1921
1921 to 1940
1941 to 1950
1951 to 1960
1961 to 1972
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Only 2 of the 5 vacant units
a
2,:d,%
Percentages represent summary from 20 percent sampling of selected
townships and cities.
Source:
County Equalization records.
Les e than one percent or two of the Township's year-round occupied
residences were rated as either deteriorating or dilapidated.
90
About 6~
�..
HOUSING
· FIGURE
18.
. HOUSING
IS ~JP E fo/1If.JG
TO~Vli.JSHIP
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......
i;},·::1
1
N
LEGEND
DENSITY
CQNDJTJON
Sound
Hmm o-7 Housesl40ac.
Deter/~rating
C'J s-19 Houses/40ac.
Delapidatsd
1llllll 20+-Houses/40ac.
Miles
l&:t:~·:il
0
I
ffi·htl
2
3
Source: Marquette
County HousinqStudy, _1977.
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Number ~/Persons Psr Room
Percent
Total
Owner
Percent
Renter
1.0 or lesa
598
89.1
548
88.8
50
1.01 - 1.50
65
9.7
61
9.9
4
8
1.2
8
1.3
1.. 51
and up
Source:
Percent
1970 Census of HoUEing
T'ne F.ate of otrner occupancy in the township is very high$
Of the total
671 year-round occupied units in 1970, 617 or 92°/4 were owner occupied and 54
or
8% were renter occupiedo The value of owner-occupied units and a break-
down of monthly rental fees are supplied below.
These figures are now dated
and should be reviaed with the 1980 census.
Value of OirmeT-0ccn-pied Uni ts 2 1970
Value
Number of Units
Less than $5,000
$5,000 - $9,999
$10,000 -$14,999
$15,000 -$19,999
Number of Units
Value
64
41
$20,000-$21~,999
30
8.5
$25,000-$~,999
$35,000-$49,999
$50,000 or more
126
129
9
2
Monthly Contract of Renter - Occupied Units, 1970
Cash Rent
Number of Units
Cash Rent
Number of Units
Less than $40
10
$120 - $149
2
$40 - $59
8
16
4
$150 - $199
0
$200 - $299
$3()0 and up
0
3
No caeh rent
7
S6o - S79
$80 - S99
S100 - $119
Source:
1970 Census of Housing
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0
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Construction Trends
No accurate records were kept for the number of net1 housing uni ts built
in the Township prior to 1974.
siilca 1974.
However, accuTate records have b~en kept
In 1974, 40 building permits were issued for new housing, 33 in
1975, 55 in '1976, and 35 in 1977. A breakdown of these permits crui be found
below.
Upon completion thase new structures provided or ~ill provide Ishpem-
ing Township with 40 new housing unit~ in 1974, 40 in 1975? 63 in 1976, and
34 in 1977. This averages out to 44 new units per year.
Buildint; Permits Ia.sued 1/1/?l} - 12/31/7? ·
Single Units
1m.
1222.
122§_
1977
35
30
45
34
0
2
Multiple Units
(9 units)
1 (4 units)
1 (120 units)
nursing home
Mobile Homes
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5
1
9
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Ishpeming Township Builaing Code Inap~ctor
According to the IshpGming To~mship Building Inspector, th3 drop in
building permits in 1977 can be attributed to the lack of available area
for new bousingo
However, land is currently in the process of being plat-
ted for lots and the number of permits is expected to increase in 1978.
A
limited amount of building 9 approximately a dozen homes, has occurred on
larger parcels of land.
At the present time mobile homes must be placed
in mobile home parks.
Ishpeming Township is in the process of building a ·nursing home housing
122 beds, which is expected to be completed in 1978. A senior citizens apartment building is also in the initial stages of planning.
Building Code Enforcement. On November 6, 19?4, the State of Michigan
Construction Code, Act 230, 1972, went into effect, providing for statewide
adoption and enforcement of some form of building code.
elected to enforce the Michigan State Building Code.
Ishpeming Township
The Township employs
one part time building inspector who is under the direction of the Township
Supervisor.
Marquette County enforces the National Electrical and the
Michigan Plumbing Code.
96
�Computation of Houaing Needs
Number of Year-Round Unita 1 1977 o•••••••••
Number of Year-Round Units, 1980 est.•••••
1016
117.5
+ 159
Source:
New Units Expected 1977-1980 ••••••••••••••
- 132
+ 27
Re~lacement Needs ••o••••••~•••••~•••••••••
0
Net Needs 1980 ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
+ 27
Marquette County Planning Commission Housing Study, 1977.
1~ese estimates and assumptions
apply to the Ishpeming Township
housing supply and establish a 1980 housing need. This need represents
u..~its that will be necessary in addition to the normal activity that can
ba expected.
Issues and Prob1lerns
-
Housing units in the Township are relatively new.
-
The overall condition of the housing is very good.
Mobile homes are only allowed in mobile home parks.
one mobile home park in the Township.
There is currently
The unfilled demand for low cost housing is increasingly being met by
the mobile home, whose numbers have increased considerably since 1970.
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The low vacancy rate, which is under one half percent, allows prices to
be higher than needed and choice to be very limitedo
-
There is a lack of variety in the existing housing supply. Single unit
structures comprise 78% of the year-round housing supply. Multiple units
comprise only 9% of the housing supply. The remaining 13% is comprised
of mobile homes.
The eXPansion of Empire and Tilden Mines and the growing preference of
mining employees to live in rural areas will probably increase the demand for housing in the Townshipi
�Economy
GOAL
I.
PROMOTE THE GROWTH OF STABLE EMPLOYMENT IN ISHPEMING TOWNSHIP.
Objectives
1.
Encourage the expansion of existing industries while promoting the
location of new small-scale industries in the Township.
2.
Encourage well coordinated efforts by the Township government and
private interests to stimulate greater diversification in the economic sector.
3. Relate econ~mic problems and problem remedies to other Township
problems and targets.
4.
Encourage commercial and industrial development on planned locations.
5.
Develop and consolidate tourism's role in the economy of the Township by upgrading, expanding, and properly maintaining existing tourist facilities; by perser-~ing historic and scenic areas, wilderness
areas, wildlife habitats, and open space areas; and by promoting Ishpeming Township as an area with year-round recreational opportunitias.
6. Restructure and expand the forestry industry through bet-ter forest
land management, harvesting, utilization, and marketing.
7.
Promote agriculture bypreserving lands with agricultural potentials
and by encouraging agricultural management.
Land Use
GOALS
I.
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II.
III.
IV.
v.
PROVIDE A WIDE VARIETY OF LIVING AREAS RANGING FROM LOW DENSITY
RURAL TO HIGH DENSITY URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
DESIGN NEW DEVELOPMENT AREAS CONSISTENT WITH EXISTING NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY RESOURCES.
ENCOURAGE AND PLAN FOR RECREATIONAL OR LOW DENSITY HOUSING IN AREAS
THAT WILL Nar INCREASE SOCIAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL COSTS.
PRESERVE AGRICULTURE AS A VIABLE, PERMANENT LAND USE.
PROMOTE AND MAINTAIN AN OPEN SPACE LAND USE SYSTEM.
�Transnortation
GOAL
I.
IMPROVE ALL MODES AND ARTERIES OF TRANSPORTATION IN A BALANCED
RELATIONSHIP TO EACH OTHER AND AS INTEGRAL PARTS OF A LOCAL,
REGIONAL,
II.
.A}m
STATEWIDE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.
COORDINATE THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK WITH THE
OVERALLL DEVELOPMENT OF THE TOWNSHIP'S Hln-1AN AND PHYSICAL RESOURCES.
Objectives
1.
Coordinate the transportation development of the To,..mship with
those of the cities, County, and State ..
2.
Coordinate the transportation related plans of private enterprises
with the plans of public agencies.
3. Participate in County and State transportation planning.
4.
Improve the convenience and safety of the transportation system
to maximize the mobility of the Township•s people ..
5.
Make recommendations for roa<.l improvements and seek Planning Com--
mission review of the County Road Commission's periodic construction programs within the Township ..
6.
Encourage land use controls which will:
(a)
Minimize or discourage developments, including residential,
commercial, and outdoor advertising, which interfere with the
transportation function of arterial and principal collector
roadso
(b)
Facilitate abandonment of roads which serve localities not
suitable for development, permitting resources to be used
where need is greater.
r
102
�Objectives
1.
Existing public water and waste1:1ater systems should be maintained
and periodically rehabilitated and improved.
2.
Existing public water and wastewater systems should be eArpanded to
service new de~elopment immediately adjacent to present service
areas.
3. Storm water should continue to be separated from sanitary waste and/or
treated wherever feasible.
4.
(a)
Not be installed in location with limitations which could
inhibit· adequate wastewater disposal.
(b)
Continue to be maintained on a regular basis.
(c)
Be rehabilitated or replaced to alleviate wastewater disposal
problems that public regulatory agencies have determined to
be dangerous to the public heal~h.
5.
Federal, state, and local governments should fully cooperate
in planning and financing municipal wastewater systems whenever
feasible.
6.
Public water and wastewater systems should be jointly developed
in adjoining cities and townships where such joint use achieves
economies of scale and permits improved quality controL
?o
Wastewater collection s:ystems should be upgraded to minimize
excessive infiltration/inflow of ground water and surface water .when
necessary.
Land use planning should be carried out through-out the Township
to guide the orderly and efficient expansion and renewal of existing population centers; local land use controls, including
zoning and subdivision ordinances, should be enacted, enforced,
andnperiodically updated.
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9.
10.
I
Onsite wastewater disposal systems should:
Public water and wastewater systems should not be developed to
service areas outside the Township's existing population centers,
except:
(a)
To service lake or river front development, and
(b)
To· correct conditions that public regulatory agencies have
determined to be dangerous to the public health.
Local wastewater rates should crontinue to:
(a)
Be set at levels sufficient to support the costs of maintenance and operations, debt service, and the building of a
r·eserve fund;
(b)
Be reviewed annually; and
(c)
Wherever feasible, refect cost apportionments among users according to
the amount of water they consume.
�Housing
GOALS
I.
ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OF A HOUSING SUPPLY WHICH PROVIDES EACH
FAMILY OR INDIVIDUAL WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESIDE IN DECENT,
SAFE, AND SANITARY HOUSING.
II.
DEVELOP LOCAL LA.l'\fD USE PLANS WHICH GUIDE HIGH DENSITY POPULATION
AND HOUSING GROWTH INTO AREAS WITH EXISTING OR PLANNED FACILITIES
AND SERVICES.
III.
ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OF A HOUSING SUPPLY WHICH PROVIDES EACH
FAMILY WITH A CHOICE REGARDING HOUSING 'rYPES' DENSITY' Al'm COST.
IV.
ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT OF HOUSING IN A MANNER
WHICH STRENGTHENS THE ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL WELL BEING OF EXISTING
COMMUNITIES •
V.
DEVELOP NEW HOUSING IN AREAS WHICH ALLOW FOR THE EFFICIENT USE OF
AND PRESERVATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES.
Objectives
1.
Recognize housing ac.1 a public, as well as a private, responsibility ..
2.
Encourage the development of a wide variety of housing types, including single family homes, mobile homes, duplexes, town houses, and
apartments.
3.
Encourage mobile home development only in planned mobile home parks.
4. Encourage the development of housing designed to meet the special
needs of particular segments of society, such as the elderly, lowincome, and middle income groups.
5. Seek greater support in the form of financial assistance from the
State Housing Authority, HUD, and Farmer's Home Administration.
6.
Encourage the development of programs designed to rehabilitate old
and obsolete, but structurally sound, dwellings.
7. Encourage Planned Unit Developments and cluster development as a
means of obtaining larger open space acres.<>within residential areas.
8. Promote quality residential site planning which preserves natural
resources and critical areas such as wetlands, lakeshores, steep
slopes, and woodlands.
9. Promote soil conservation practices which minimize soil erosion
during residential construction.
10.
Recognize and encourage quality site planning in order to conserve·
transportation and heating energy.
106
�CHAPTER XI
IMPLEMEN'l'ATION
Implementation
The implementation section of the Ishpeming Township Comprehensive
Plan outlines ways and means of carrying out the recommendations made in
this report, and establishes guidelineG fer administering a planning programo
A
number of legal and administrative methods are available for im-
plementation of the plan.
Every effort should be made by Township offi-
c 5.als and residents to follow a program of this nature.
Legal Implementation
Zoning_Or~inance/Subdivision Re1;Ulation.
An important method of im-
plementing the land use recommendations made within the Plan is through
zoning.
A zoning ordinance regulates the use of private land, population
densities, land coverage, and heights of structureso
The ordinance should
consist of a map showing the various land use districts, and include . a
written document governing standt=J.rds and administrative procedures.
It is
recommended that the Township Planning Comrnissioni which is also the ZoningBoard, take a strong stand on enforcing the zoning ordinance.
The addition
of a Planned Unit Development section in the ordinance and subdivision control regulations should be considered in the future.
Building and Housing Codes.
Building and housing codes establish stan-
dards for building construction and for dwelling units.
Building Codes con-
tain regulations concerning new construction and major repairs or alterations to existing structures.
The State Construction Code provides for ac-
ceptable structure standards and construction practices.
concerned with residential units.
sanitary living conditions.
Housing codes are
They are designed tu insure safe, sound,
The housing code primarily addresses itself to
the questions of overcrowding.
It is recommended that the Ishpeming Township Planning Commission take
a more active role in the process of enforcing and supervising building
codes in Ishpeming Township ..
108
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection
Creator
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Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization)
Wyckoff, Mark A.
Description
An account of the resource
Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University.
Coverage
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Michigan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960/2023
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a>
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a>
Subject
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Michigan
Comprehensive plan publications
Master plan reports
Zoning--Michigan
Zoning--Maps
Maps
Land use--planning
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
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RHC-240
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application/pdf
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Text
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eng
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Dublin Core
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Ishpeming-Twp_Comprehensive-Plan_1978
Creator
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Marquette County Planning Commission, Marquette County, Michigan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1978-09
Title
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Comprehensive Plan
Description
An account of the resource
The Comprehensive Plan for Ishpeming Township was prepared by the Marquette County Planning Commission in September 1978.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Comprehensive plan publications
Ishpeming Township (Mich.)
Marquette County (Mich.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a179498aa32208fc2612a977fe92cc0d.m4v
6f21eb95b0dc4c41b8d40b4264688558
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/75de438e1b993dcd0173c20623b6aa51.pdf
7d1648d819c01505382c45a49e0c442a
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Nick Marrone
(00:53:15)
Before the war (00:00)
Born in Italy in a suburb of Benevento, near Naples (00:15)
At the age of five he was brought to the US, in 1929, and became a naturalized citizen (00:30)
He grew up in the Bronx (00:45)
He moved to the US for financial reasons (00:50)
Father worked in Canada (02:15)
Father was an automobile mechanic (4:00)
Competitive city jobs (04:50)
The War (05:00)
Received draft notice on December 31 (06:00)
He reported to camp Buckton, Alabama, and then went to Ft. McClellan for infantry basic
training (06:15)
His training was physically demanding (06:45)
Went to camp AP Hill in Fredericksburg, Virginia (07:15)
Before the war he was working for $1.70 an hour running machines (08:30)
He transferred to the air corps because of his mechanical background (09:00)
Training for the air corps was about two months long (10:15)
Briefly went to Salt Lake City and then to a Point of Embarkation in Antioch, California (10:30)
He was shipped to New Caledonia, and sailed in a convoy (10:57)
Arrived at Guadalcanal (11:54)
Arrived at Guadalcanal in 1943 (12:48)
�6 months of training before going to Guadalcanal (13:30)
13th Air force was being assembled (13:50)
Air strikes every night on Guadalcanal (14:10)
Naval bombardment (14:40)
The elements and malaria (15:40)
He came down with Jungle Rot but no other diseases (16:05)
The Jungle Rot actually came back to him twenty-five years later (16:30)
He was sent to Cleveland Clinic were a form of vinegar was used to cure it (17:05)
He was crew chief with The 12th Fighter Squadron, which flew strafing missions and provided
cover for bombers (18:10)
A CO asked if anyone knew anything about radial engines, and so he was recruited to work on
radial engines (19:25)
They fixed up a radial engine plane and used it to fly everywhere, including R&R, and picked up
odds and ends (20:15)
While bringing back tomatoes, the tomato cans exploded because of the altitude and he had to
write a report on the exploding tomatoes (22:15)
Eventually they added cameras to the planes to confirm kills (24:30)
Every year the planes would become more advanced (25:00)
Currently there are memorial flights (26:40)
Japanese would attack from Buin (28:30)
Moved base to New Guinea (29:15)
Twenty-six land sea invasions in the Pacific (31:35)
Japanese atrocities (32:00)
His military duties consisted primarily of maintenance (34:00)
He remained in the Pacific for three months after the war had ended before shipping back to the
US (35:50)
Got on a ship in December and went to Antioch California (36:00)
�After the war he decided to leave the air force (36:15)
He worked in Biscuit Company for a short period (36:35)
He became a radial enjoin instructor (37:00)
He went to Hawaii and worked as the Civilian Line Chief for the Air Transport Command in
Honolulu (37:40)
Patients and planes with problems would stop in Honolulu (39:05)
The military build the biggest VA Hospital in the area (40:30)
He spent nine years in Hawaii (40:25)
Portuguese origin of the Ukulele (42:45)
After Hawaii, he came back to the US in Willow Run, Michigan (43:50)
He went to work for Kaiser Frazer Automobile (45:30)
His time in the service and his thoughts (47:00)
He was grateful and learned a lot and contributed a lot (47:00)
Lots of respect and camaraderie (48:10)
Twenty-five years after getting out of the military, he officially became a US citizen (50:00)
He has seven sons; some of them became Marines (51:30)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MarroneN
Title
A name given to the resource
Marrone, Nicholas (Interview outline and video)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marrone, Nicholas
Description
An account of the resource
Nick Marrone was born in Italy in 1924 and came to the United States in 1929. He was drafted into the army, and was assigned to the Army Air Corps as a mechanic. He served with the 13th Air Force in the South Pacific from 1943 to 1945. H was a crew chief in the 12th Fighter Squadron, which was based on Guadalcanal and New Guinea.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army Air Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9de5e2ef7ba7f94ae5ade9aeef1af4d3.mp4
071dd0af0aa407340c7f3c513aafa437
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/78e562f9cf4e78bb06db5bb07d36c17a.pdf
53a8a7ca44f8c61b27caddca7379624f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Frank Marshall
Vietnam War
1 hour 0 minutes 50 seconds
(00:00:11) Early Life
-Born in Philadelphia on February 2, 1949
-Grew up on the north side of Philadelphia
-Mother was a seamstress for Alfred Angelo
-Father was a truck driver
-Witnessed, first hand, the bombing of Pearl Harbor
-Served with the famous writer James Jones
-Graduated from Dobbins High School in 1966
-Worked in printing and plumbing after high school
(00:02:11) Awareness of Vietnam
-Paid no attention to Vietnam
-He knew that he would be drafted eventually
-Instead chose to focus on enjoying life while he still could
-Apathetic towards the conflict in Vietnam
(00:02:44) Getting Drafted
-Received draft notice between Christmas and New Year’s Eve 1968
-Had already completed the draft physical when he had turned eighteen
-Everyone had been trying to get out of being drafted
-Some men were able to successfully escape the draft
(00:03:39) Basic Training
-Sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for basic training
-Harsh reality set in upon arrival
-Considered himself to have been treated well
-Everything was fast paced, but he expected that
-Credits part of the ease of basic to the attitude he had going in
-Believed that it was just something that he had to get through
-Trained with other men from Philadelphia
-Basic training lasted eight weeks
(00:05:35) Advanced Infantry Training
-Sent to Fort Dix, New Jersey for advanced infantry training
-For him it was easier than basic training
-Seemed easier being close to home
-Able to go home frequently
-Less of a physical training focus
-Received weapons training there
-Most instructors were Vietnam veterans
-Felt that they did a good job preparing the recruits for Vietnam
-Mostly taught from the textbook though
-AIT lasted eight weeks
�(00:08:00) Noncommissioned Officer School
-At the end of AIT he was drafted into NCO School
-Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia
-Training did not go well
-He didn’t want to become a noncommissioned officer
-Training was difficult for him
-He wanted to fail out and get reassigned to Europe
-Informed that the Army didn’t send failed NCO’s to Europe any more
-Received orders for deployment to Vietnam
(00:09:17) Deployment to Vietnam
-Given thirty days of leave before being deployed
-He wasn’t worried
-Seemed to believe that the war would wind down shortly after he arrived
-Returned to Fort Dix and flew out of McGuire Air Force Base on October 8, 1969
-Flown to California, then Hawaii, then Guam
-Only allowed off the plane for an hour at each stop
(00:10:41) Arrival in Vietnam
-Landed in Long Binh, Vietnam
-The heat in Vietnam was shocking and intimidating
-Sent to processing center to be assigned to his unit
-Spent a few days there
-Got assigned to Alpha Company 2nd Battalion 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne Division
-Sent north to Da Nang on a transport plane
-From Da Nang flown to Phu Bai on a Chinook helicopter
-From Phu Bai taken to Camp Evans on a truck
-Still didn’t have any gear, weaponry, or general equipment
(00:12:46) Arriving at Camp Evans
-Issued gear, equipment, and a rifle at Camp Evans
-Alpha Company was in the field tearing down old firebases in the north
-He was given two weeks of introductory training at Camp Evans
-Rappelling out of helicopters, patrolling, guard duty, basic information
-He was instructed how to make a backpack for the field and was then told to board helicopter
(00:14:21) In the Field Pt. 1
-Boarded a helicopter and went into the field to meet up with Alpha Company
-Met them at the landing zone
-Seeing the battle hardened veterans put the fear in him
-Placed in a section on the edge of the landing zone
-Told to watch for Vietnamese and to fire on them if necessary
-Saw six soldiers get chopped up by a helicopter blade due to a faulty landing
-Had to collect and body bag the remains
-Assigned to 1st Platoon and they made camp halfway up a hill
-Eventually worked their way up to a firebase
-Getting to know the other soldiers was tough
-Battle hardened
-Placed on point and wasn’t good at it which upset the other soldiers
-Given the M79 grenade launcher afterwards
�(00:19:20) In the Field Pt. 2
-Got into a firefight with a sniper
-Fired a few grenades in the sniper’s general direction
-Stayed in the field for a couple of weeks and then returned to Camp Evans
-There were a lot of new replacements waiting for them
-He formed closer bonds with them
-Still had no idea how to operate in Vietnam
-Stayed at Camp Evans for a few days
-Returned to the field and continued tearing down old firebases
-Stayed in that area of operations through December
-Ran into booby traps and snipers occasionally
-Fairly easy missions at that point though
-Had faith in the experienced soldiers and his officers
(00:23:05) Firebase Jack
-Once the monsoons set in they were moved to the flatlands
-Used Firebase Jack as their base camp
-Moved there in January or February 1970
-He was put on a rappel team
-Their mission was to go in first and create a landing zone for helicopters
-Enjoyed staying on Firebase Jack
-Had time to relax
-The only job was to guard the perimeter
-Patrolled the flatlands and swamps looking for North Vietnamese Army (NVA)
-NVA were trying to move troops down from the Ho Chi Minh Trail
-They didn’t find many NVA
-Had scattered firefights and no casualties
(00:26:07) Establishing Firebase Ripcord
-He was on the third helicopter in to establish Firebase Ripcord [March 12, 1970]
-The landing zone turned hot upon their arrival
-They lost their lieutenant and radio operator and took heavy casualties
-En route their designated landing zone had been changed to a different one
-Landed in the midst of North Vietnamese troops
-They started taking fire immediately
-Lost his equipment getting off the helicopter
-Moved into position to knock out a visible machine gun nest
-Had no ammunition
-Had run back up the hill to the landing zone to get ammo
-Eventually was able to mark the nest for a Cobra gunship
(00:30:05) In the Field at Firebase Ripcord
-Continued to operate in that area
-Jungle and mountainous region
-Tough moving in that area
-Stayed on the North Vietnamese trails
-They noticed a marked increase in enemy activity as the months went on
-Spent most of their time in the field
-Didn’t get to spend a lot of time on Firebase Ripcord
�-Had sporadic firefights and increasing casualties in the spring of 1970
-Higher presence of NVA
-American presence had little, to no, effect on the NVA
-He was in a major firefight at Hill 805
-Chuck Norris’s brother was with them when he was killed in action there
-Saw a Chinook helicopter crash at Firebase Ripcord
-They tapped into a Vietnamese communication line
-Learned that they were in the middle of two NVA bases
-Ambushed the NVA repairman
-Wounded him, but couldn’t track him back to his base
-They knew that Firebase Ripcord was getting hit hard and frequently
(00:38:13) R&R
-Went on R&R and the battalion was sent for a break at Eagle Beach
-He went to Taipei, Taiwan
-Only available R&R destination
-Welcomed and thoroughly enjoyed the respite from combat
-Given fifteen days of R&R
(00:40:07) Firefight on June 8, 1970
-He and his unit got into a severe firefight on June 8, 1970
-He was wounded in the fighting
-Had been sent forward to fire on an enemy bunker
-Took some shrapnel in the back as a result
-Sent to Da Nang hospital for three days of treatment and recovery
(00:41:06) Firefight on July 22, 1970-Overview
-On July 22 they were on a hilltop near Ripcord
-Ordered to get off the hilltop
nd
-2 Platoon advanced directly into a North Vietnamese mortar team
-Four hundred NVA soldiers were surrounding them
-By the end of the day only six Americans weren’t wounded or killed
-He was wounded three times during the fighting
(00:43:08) Firefight on July 22, 1970-Details
-The platoons had been separated moving off the hill
-The NVA were able to quickly take the hilltop and get the high ground
-They were eventually able to reestablish contact with air support
-Cobra gunship was called in to attack the NVA
-An F4 Phantom was able to come in and drop a 250 lb. bomb on their position
-Drove the NVA back for the night
-He was wounded by the concussion of a satchel charge detonating
-He was wounded from the shrapnel of an exploding rocket propelled grenade (RPG)
-He was wounded by taking shrapnel in the ankle
-After the third and final wound he was carried to safety and the bomb was dropped
(00:48:24) Firefight on July 22, 1970-Rescue
-They stayed awake all night
-Delta Company attempted to move in that night and pick them up
-The lack of a viable landing zone made it impossible
-At first light Delta Company was dropped into a better landing zone
�-Delta pushed through the NVA and made it to Alpha Company’s position
-Once there Delta created a landing zone at Alpha’s position and evacuated them
(00:50:11) Time in the Hospitals
-He was taken back to Camp Evans
-Spent six weeks in a variety of hospitals
-After Camp Evans he was taken to Phu Bai for preliminary examinations
-After Phu Bai he was taken back to Da Nang Hospital
-After Da Nang he was taken to the 483rd Air Force hospital at Cam Ranh Bay
-Felt comfortable and secure there
-After a few weeks he was allowed to walk again
(00:51:22) End of Deployment
-Returned to Camp Evans after the time spent in the hospitals
-He was supposed to return home in two weeks
-He was supposed to return to the field
-His congressman pulled some strings so that he wouldn’t have to
-Spent the last two weeks in August 1970 guarding the base and on latrine duty
(00:52:19) Coming Home
-Flown from Camp Evans to Phu Bai
-From Phu Bai went directly back to Fort Lewis, Washington
-Received a steak dinner upon arrival
-Remembers everyone celebrating when they entered friendly airspace
-From Washington he flew home to Philadelphia
-Returned home in uniform
-There were some protestors at the airports, but nothing dramatic happened
(00:53:30) Morale, Race, and Drugs
-Received a large amount of mail and care packages while deployed
-Received a birthday cake on his 21st birthday while in the field
-Had to assemble it in the field
-The unit was close knit
-Fought together from October to the end of his deployment
-If someone was wounded or killed it impacted everyone in the unit
-They worked well together in, and out, of the field
-Never experienced racial tension while they were in the field
-Prevalent issue in the rear
-Never dealt with drugs while in the field due to safety concerns
-In the rear drugs were used fairly liberally
(00:56:21) Life after the War
-Returned home and bought a Dodge Charger
-Got a printing job
-Kept that job for a year until he was laid off
-Got into roofing and started a roofing business
-Eventually got into real estate in New Jersey and worked in that for a decade
-Retired from real estate
(00:57:31) Founding of Ripcord Association
-When he came home nobody wanted to talk about the Vietnam War
-Other veterans didn’t believe that Ripcord happened, or had even heard about it
�-Began to get involved with veterans in 1985
-Part of a group that wanted to create a veteran’s memorial in Philadelphia
-Got out of that due to controversy surrounding the project
-Got in contact with surviving members of the Battle of Ripcord
-Started off with twelve veterans and it soon grew to two hundred
-Had their first mini-reunion in Seaside heights
-Local news picked it up
-More Ripcord veterans got involved
-Had their first organized reunion in 1986 in Whitney, New Jersey
-Now manages the website, newsletter, memberships and other general communications
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MarshallF1546V
Title
A name given to the resource
Marshall, Frank (Interview outline and video), 2013
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marshall, Frank
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Marshall was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1949. He lived there until he recived his draft notice late in 1968. After basic training at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and advanced training at Fort Dix, New Jersey, he went to NCO school at Fort Benning, Georgia. He quit that program and was sent to Vietnam, where he was assigned to Alpha Company of the 2nd Battalion 506th Infantry of the 101st Airborne Division. He participated in shutdown operations in the A Shau Valley late in 1969, then operated closer to the coast in early 1970, and then took part in the campaign around Firebase Ripcord, and was wounded three times. He returned home in August and was discharged. He later became one of the founding members of the Ripcord Association, and remains actively involved with that organization.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013-10-11
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/151840e44d1671f9daffd1027c331e90.mp4
2b76a3366b318f529aea169e9eaa4af8
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/85b3396f660c913336e6471368847c95.pdf
904f1e6e053ab74550a1dc12af1e2d52
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Iraq War
Justin Marshall
Interview Length: (00:26:11:00)
Life before the Army (00:00:09:00)
Before joining the military, Marshall was in his last semester of college (00:00:15:00)
o He figured this would be the best time for him to join because he did not have any
other commitments, such as a wife or kids. (00:00:25:00)
Marshall has a history of military personnel in his own family. (00:00:37:00)
o His father and both his grandfathers were in the army. The grandfathers served in
WWII: One in Southeast Asia and one in Europe. (00:00:39:00)
Marshall grew up in New Jersey. (00:00:49:00)
o While he was in middle school, his family moved to Vermont. (00:00:52:00)
o The family moved to Michigan sometime later, where Marshall finished high
school and attended Kettering University. (00:00:55:00)
When he confronted his parents about joining the military, Marshall’s father was very
excited while his mother was not. (00:01:07:00)
Marshall joined because he wanted to do something for his country and he was out of
shape. (00:01:40:00)
o Additionally, in regards to controversy over the war in Iraq, he never wanted to
make “uninformed statements” about why or why not Americans should be
fighting in this war. (00:02:22:00).
o “I joined to know a little bit more about myself” (00:02:41:00)
o “I wanted to be humbled.” (00:04:10:00)
Early Military Experience (00:04:15:00)
In January of 2004, Marshall enlisted in the United States Army. (00:04:20:00)
On July 27th, 2004, Marshall went to basic training. (00:04:30:00)
o This was a 9- week long program. (00:04:33:00)
Basic training is “just like you see in the movies”. (00:04:42:00)
o Marshall believes that the purpose of this program is “training you as a basic
soldier”, just as the title suggests. (00:05:00:00)
After basic training, Marshall went to Officer Candidate School which lasted for 14
weeks. (00:05:11:00)
o At OCS, “they teach you more about being a leader”. (00:05:20:00)
o At OCS your communication is limited as it was in basic training. He was able to
make 5-10 minute phone calls and use e-mail a few times a week. (00:06:02:00)
After OCS, Marshall went to Airborne School which lasted for 3 weeks. This was located
in Georgia. (00:06:35:00)
After Airborne School, Marshall attended an Infantry Officer Basics Course.
(00:06:52:00)
o This taught infantry tactics and extended leadership training. (00:07:01:00)
After IOBC, Marshall attended Mechanized Vehicles Course. (00:07:10:00)
o Here, he learned how to work certain military utility vehicles. He needed this
knowledge to become a platoon leader. (00:07:25:00)
�
The final course in which Marshall was enrolled was “Ranger School”, which lasted over
60 days. (00:07:40:00)
o The program consisted of 3 “phases” which were each about 21 days long. Each
featured a different kind of terrain that students would have to work in.
(00:07:48:00)
o He felt a particular pressure to complete this course because his father had been
an army ranger. (00:08:31:00)
He completed Ranger School in January of 2006. (00:09:10:00)
First Deployment (00:09:11:00)
Marshall joined his unit- First Battalion 6th infantry- in March of 2006. (00:09:12:00)
When Marshall joined the unit, they had already been deployed to Iraq and were waiting
in Kuwait for further instruction. (00:09:54:00)
o After a month in Baumholder Germany, Marshall joined the unit in Kuwait after a
1- week “train-up”. (00:09:58:00)
Marshall became a platoon leader on May 1st, 2006 as soon as he arrived in Kuwait with
his unit. (00:10:09:00)
o After remaining in Kuwait for 1 month, the unit was called to Iraq. (00:11:05:00)
The unit arrived in the city of Ramadi, Iraq. (00:11:12:00)
o Ramadi was a “hot spot” at the time of Marshall’s units’ arrival. Al Qaeda had
been recruiting people in the Southwest region of the city. (00:11:52:00)
Marshall remained in Ramadi for 6 months. (00:12:03:00)
o “I had bullets shot at me”. (00:12:10:00)
o Marshall’s unit also encountered roadside bombs. (00:12:15:00)
o Nobody in his platoon was killed, but one man was shot. Thanks to a “very well
trained medic”, the man’s life was saved. (00:12:20:00)
o However, two men were killed: one that was in Marshall’s company and another
that had previously been in his company and transferred to another. (00:12:42:00)
Second Deployment (00:13:00:00)
After Ramadi, Marshall’s unit was transferred to Baumholder, Germany. (00:13:02:00)
o They did another “train- up” for Iraq while there. (00:13:10:00)
After another short period in Germany, Marshall and the others were transferred to Sadr
City, Iraq. (00:13:17:00)
o “Sadr City was the urban slum in Baghdad”. (00:13:25:00)
o This city was only made to fit about 1 million people; however there was about 3
million there when Marshall arrived. (00:13:47:00)
o The Mahdi Army had been shooting rockets inside the “green zone”, or
“International Zone of Baghdad”. Marshall’s unit was put in charge of
constructing a blockade wall for the Green Zone. As a result, the opposition
issued a cease fire and rockets were no longer being launched at the protected
region. (00:14:03:00)
o After the construction of the wall, Marshall’s unit devoted effort to rebuilding the
slums of Sadr City. (00:14:34:00)
Other Military Experiences (00:15:20:00)
During his first deployment, Marshall and the other men that accompanied him did not
have a great amount of provisions.
�
o They had to build their own shelter from an abandoned house in Ramadi because
the outpost had not yet been constructed when they arrived. (00:15:22:00)
o The men used abandoned sleeping pads that Iraqi soldiers had left behind, which
were infested with fleas. (00:16:40:00)
o Marshall and the others used outhouses and wooden shower stalls. (00:17:05:00)
“During the second deployment, living conditions were good”. (00:17:48:00)
o The men were able to sleep in bunk beds. (00:17:51:00)
o After a month of being there, “trailer stalls” were delivered. These units included
bathrooms and showers. (00:17:58:00)
o Supplies came in fast enough to permit the men to eat hot meals every day, but
“every third meal was the same”. (00:18:55:00)
In terms of the civilians, “I’m not really sure how they felt about us”. (00:19:56:00)
o Marshall believes that the threatening appearance of the United States army
caused locals to be non-receptive. (00:19:58:00)
o He doesn’t think the military presence did much good due to the tension between
the army and the Iraqi people. (00:20:10:00)
o The hostile disposition of those in the United States army because “the enemy”
often hid amongst the civilians, disguised as such. Therefore, Marshall and the
others had to keep their guard up even when it came to common folk.
(00:20:35:00)
During the second deployment, “the civilians were not receptive” because the military
presence in the Shia community caused conflict amongst the civilians. (00:20:50:00)
o Once the U.S. soldiers began to help rebuild Sadr City, the tension diminished as
many people were being freed of extortion by the Mahdi Army, community
structures were being built, and public services were improved. (00:21:14:00)
One of Marshall’s favorite Army memories was playing whiffle ball on Thanksgiving.
(00:23:00:00)
Marshall handled many different weapons and always carried an M4 Carbine Rifle.
(00:23:30:00)
o He was also trained on M16 rifles, M240 Bravos, MK 19 Grenade Launchers
M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW), and the weapons on the Bradley
Fighting Vehicle. (00:23:37:00)
Marshall earned the Bronze Star Medal for planning an assault. He administered the
helicopter route for the soldiers involved. (00:24:22:00)
Because he was an officer, Marshall was expected to use communication facilities less
than other lower ranked soldiers. Therefore he did not talk to his family and friends back
home very often. (00:25:30:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MarshallJ1219V
Title
A name given to the resource
Marshall, Justin (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marshall, Justin
Description
An account of the resource
Justin Marshall was born in in New Jersey and later moved to Michigan with his family where he finished high school. Marshall decided to enlist in the United States Army in during his last semester of college at Kettering University. In 2004, he was sent to basic training, after which he took a number of extra courses including Officer Candidate School, Airborne School, a mechanized vehicle course, and Ranger School. In March of 2006, Marshall joined the First Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, as a platoon leader, and later became a captain and company commander. On the first of his two deployments, he was sent to Ramadi, Iraq, which was a "Hot Spot" for Al-Qaeda recruitment. His second deployment was to the Sadr City area of Baghdad, Iraq, where Marshall and his comrades helped rebuild the struggling community and eliminate extortion by the Mahdi Army.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Wisdom, Victoria (Interviewer)
Murphy, Sydney (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-11-13
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d8b573226f1f27f0b0c022fb132dd6e.m4v
8db6c5b25363dd981ce79a58128ee9b9
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5032d0eff4e22bd90a6b2b6bfd58f3fb.pdf
f098924173cac1e5e9a0543bdaf5c700
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee name: Robert Marshall
Length of Interview: 56 minutes
Pre-Enlistment (00:54)
o Childhood (01:04)
Marshall was born in Chicago, Illinois on July 17th, 1928. (01:06)
o Family (01:11)
At age, eight Marshall’s father died. He briefly mentions the fact that his
mother immigrated from Germany, whereas his father immigated from
Ireland. (01:20)
Growing up Marshall and his folks lived on the North Side of Chicago just
a few blocks from Wrigley Field. Mentions a few experiences there.
(02:05)
o Education (02:49)
Marshall didn’t finish high school but finished at a Lutheran parochial
school. (03:10)
o His Job (03:15)
Briefly mentions working in a cold-storage warehouse. Also mentions his
various jobs. (03:24)
Enlistment/Training (03:57)
o Background (03:58)
May 1944: FDR signed an Executive Order lowering the draft age for
inductees into the Maritime Service to the age of 16. (04:21)
Marshall briefly discussed how he joined the service. (04:51)
o Why he joined (05:12)
He attributes his joining the armed service in part to peer pressure, the
need to do his patriotic duty, and then that the maritime service was the
only branch willing to take a 16-year old kid. (05:18)
o Where they trained and what company they were in (05:30)
Went to Sheepshead Bay for basic training. Briefly describes the
discipline and regular routine of training and taking tests. Overall he had a
positive experience there. (05:57)
Next, Marshall landed up at Hoffman Island, New York in Nov., 1944
where he briefly describes the place and schooling he received there.
(08:21)
While still at Hoffman Island, New York Marshall learned Morse Code &
theory; how radios worked, and after mastering it graduated. (09:52)
o Living conditions (10:05)
Mentions spending much of his free time at a local church in New York
City and visitng various places too. (10:54)
Graduated from Hoffman Island in April 44’ and had a week’s leave of
furlough. (11:07)
�o Active Duty (13:03)
Background (13:05)
• Briefly shaers his thoughts as they made their way through the
Straits of Juan de Fuca the waters in the Seattle/Port Angeles area.
(13:37)
• From there his ship sailed to a naval base where they stopped and
loaded more cargo. (14:26)
• Mentions the excitement expressed in learning the ins and outs of a
sailor. (14:43) And then he also discusses briefly what sort of man
his British captain was like. (15:05))
• In April/May 45’ Marshall arrived at Eniwetok (15:59) Shares his
thoughts while there. (16:10)
Guam voyage (16:10)
• 2 weeks out, he was in Guam. On their way there, his ship sailed
sailed without a convoy escort; something rarely done. He
remembers how anxious the crew aboard ship were. Stayed in
Guam for a few days in July 45’. (17:26)
o While stationed here, the authorities issued a report that a
possible typhoon was going to hit the island. They issued
warning to ships to stay out to sea away from shore.
(18:44) Last minute, the typhoon missed the island and
they stayed a few more days. Marshall further mentions
hearing rumors going around of a possible U.S. invasion of
Japan. (20:20)
• Out to sea experiences (20:23)
o In one instance, Marshall mentions being on night duty
when he heard a bunch of Navy officers discussing the
treaty that was signed between Japan and the U.S. which
ending the war. (20:25) After arriving back in San
Francisco and being there two weeks, Marshall signed off
his ship. (20:26) Briefly describes his thoughts of VJ day.
(21:29)
• After World War II Years (21:30)
o Afterwards, Marshall and his friend Sid boarded a train for
Chicago. Upon arriving he decided to go to New York City.
(22:43)
o In New York, Marshall mentions reporting to radio
operations and being assigned to the USS Henry
Wadsworth Longfellow; a converted troop transport.
(22:54) While serving aboard her, Marshall mentions the
various calls to ports across the eastern seaboard and
Belgian ports that his ship came to call at. (23:07).
o In one instance, his ship brought back a bunch of men from
one of Patton’s HQ companies. (23:55)
o While he was in the European port city of LeHavre, France
(24:13) he learned about the poor economic conditions
�o
o
o
o
o
o
facing much of Europe in the post-world war. Briefly
shares his thoughts about it. (24:33)
Antwerp, as he describes, was a disaster zone in which the
currency among the local people was cigarettes which was
a lot like gold to them. (25:40)
Marshall mentions that the general feelings among
Europeans about Americans were ones of deep gratitude.
Further mentions that while he was aboard his troop ship
that their main mission was to bring troops back home and
not cargo to Europe. (27:19)
After serving a year aboard the USS Henry Wadsworth
Longfellow, he signed off that ship and signed onto the
cargo ship, USS Steven W. Gilvary, which was operated by
the Atlantic Guilf & West Indies’ Lines (27:36) Operating
out of Savannah, his ship stopped in Maine and filled up
with a cargo of red potatoes which they brought to
Antwerp, Belgium. (28:28) On this occasion his ship
received orders to divert to Nova Scotia. (29:43) Mentions
that it took them 3 days to unload their cargo of potatoes.
Afterwards, they returned to Savannah for ship repairs and
upon landing Marshall and the crew were terminated.
(31:41)
Afterwards, Marshall signed aboard a Victory ship in
which he mentions making various runs to Belgium from
1946 to 1947. (32:52) Mentions that afterwards he went on
to radio and electronics school, while also taking general
courses in Math, English, and Composition with the
Merchant Marines. (33:47)
The next ship, Marshall served aboard was the C-2 USS
Crest of the Waves, which was a larger version of a Liberty
ship. While serving aboard her, he mentions making
varoius runs up and down the Caribbean; stopping at Cuba
& Panama. Served aboard her until mid-to-late 1947 when
he returned to land for a while and worked a factory job in
Chicago. (35:57)
After a miserable experience in factory life, Marshall
mentioned signing onto an old oil tanker named the Harry
S. Sinclair Jr. (36:22) Briefly describes the ship and it
being torpedoed during WWII. (37:33) After being put up
for auction three skippers pulling their resources bought the
ship for charter purposes. It was aboard this ship that
Marshall mentions various trips up and down the Eastern
sea board. (39:59) Briefly describes in depth what the
captain and his duties were like. (44:58)
After the Service (44:58)
o Adjusting to Home (44:59)
�
After being discharged he describes his brief period of installing teleivions
(45:01)
o Korean War (45:12)
Before long, the War Department called him back to the service. They sent
him out to Japan where he was put in charge of teaching a bunch of Army
signal people how to run and fix radars. (45:19)
Living in Japan for 3 years he served at Johnson Air Force Base. (45:55)
Mentions that while there, the experience rekindled some of his WWII
experience. (46:48)
o Life after after the Korean War (45:20)
Came back to the U.S. and worked for IT&T for 25 years. Briefly
describes his time with them. (47:04)
Briefly mentions several of his technical projects while serving with the
Strategic Air Command. (47:35) Some of the planes he was equipping
went on to be flown in flying missions over Hungary. (47:56)
Further mentions an encounter where he met a certain General
Montgomery. (50:16)
Marshall further discusses his other career pursuits. (53:08)
Finally, Marshall mentions how his time in the Merchant Marines had
benefited him. He describes it this way: the discipline, structure, and sense
of responsibility he received while there shaped the course of his life very
profoundly. (56:45)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MarshallR
Title
A name given to the resource
Marshall, Robert A. (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marshall, Robert A.
Description
An account of the resource
Bob Marshall is a World War II veteran who served in the U.S. Merchant Marines from November, 1944 to mid-1947. In this account, Marshall discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment, and training in the U.S., and combat experience on the high seas in the Pacific. Marshall also ends up mentioning his participation in the shuttling of humanitarian supplies & medicines to European ports after WWII and much later his role as a radio teacher during the Korean War in Japan.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Merchant marine--United States
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-05-22
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ad9c9cee515370899db77cd9c64d8be7.mp4
8a4fec83c382ecda506f91f14a8d9488
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95c4c52190e91b36865061046ad43833.pdf
ecee4a5434d8867126ec0dae74ecb8ab
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam War
Interviewee name: Alfred Martin
Branch of Service: Army
Length of interview (00:35:05)
(0:00:06) Pre-enlistment
Born in 1948, born and raised in western Pennsylvania (0:00:12)
Grew up in a family of farmers (0:00:25)
Has a high school education (0:00:32)
Did not work, drafted right out of high school (January 1969) (0:00:39)
Did not know much about Vietnam before joining (0:00:55)
Expected to be drafted (0:01:11)
(0:01:17) Enlistment/Training
Had to report to New Castle, Pennsylvania, then bussed to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
for physical. Was sent home to wait for paperwork (0:01:18)
Went back to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and was flown to Fort Jackson, South
Carolina for boot camp (0:01:28)
No evidence of people trying to „beat the system‟ (0:01:41)
After boot camp in Fort Jackson, South Carolina he went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma for
artillery training (0:02:01)
Learned familiarity with the rifle, emphasis on discipline (0:02:16)
He had a rough idea of the states his fellow troops were from (0:02:48)
He was in really good shape when he went through boot camp (0:03:01)
Basic training was roughly 6 weeks (0:03:22)
Artillery school consisted mainly of gun firing training (0:03:40)
Volunteered for NCO school because upon completion he would become a
sergeant, so he went to Vietnam as a sergeant instead of a private, and it would
give him the opportunity to make more money and have more time in the states
(0:03:52)
Artillery school was roughly 8 weeks long (0:05:05)
Had to learn about every weapon (0:05:18)
o 10 Deucer, back then was a 105
o 155 towed units
o 105, 10 Deuce SP
o 155 self-propelled
o 175
o Basically medium and heavy artillery pieces, both self-propelled and
towed
NCO school familiarized him with the gun, how to operate it and be in charge of it
(0:06:03)
155 unit had 13 men (0:06:27)
�o Gunner
o Assistant Gunner
o RTO [Radio Telephone Operator]
o Powder man
o Man that runs rounds
o 2 men run a loading tray
o 1 man running a ram rod
FDC [fire direction control] ordered them to PD (point detonate), delay or time fuse
(0:07:17)
Had leadership training, marching and drill (0:07:35)
Went from basic to AIT to NCO school, totaling approximately 1 year (0:07:46)
(0:09:04) Active Duty
Flew from Pittsburgh to Fort Lewis, Washington, and Fort Lewis to Vietnam
(0:09:09)
Landed at a base in Southern Vietnam (0:09:26)
In-country training consisted of “do‟s and don‟ts” (0:10:03)
101st Airborne unit, 155 artillery, unsure of assigned battery (0:10:25)
Joined 101st approximately January of 1970 (0:10:40)
The 101st was in I Corps when he joined them (0:10:57)
Was stationed on 12 or 13 bases (0:11:05)
Was assigned to the 155 Towed Howitzer, 2nd Battery, 11th Artillery (divisional
artillery, joined at a firebase) (0:11:13)
Assigned as a Gunner to E-6 Sgt. Davis (0:11:41)
Most challenging thing about the position was the responsibility of the men and the
possibility of losing one (0:12:06)
Had to adapt his training to combat because combat is much different (0:12:44)
Physical conditions of Vietnam were hot, dirty, no supplies or water (0:13:37)
Some firebases were more active than others (0:14:47)
Name of bases he can remember (0:15:00)
o Jack
o Granite
o Gladiator
o Ripcord
Once they land, they set up the pad, dig a pit, get bunkers ready and lastly the
hootch for living quarters (0:16:29)
A hootch is like a hole in the ground with sand bags over the top of it (0:16:51)
When they did come under fire, it was typically mortars, rockets and small arms
fire (0:17:39)
Some of the bases he was on before Ripcord were attacked by sappers (0:17:49)
They could see an RPG coming at them, and were authorized to return fire
(0:18:05)
They were required to pull guard duty 24/7 (0:18:20)
He carried an M-16 (0:18:37)
Sapper, mortar rounds, and RPG attacks occurred at Granite and Gladiator
�
(0:19:02)
Thinks the battery commander of Ripcord was Captain Baxendale (0:19:25)
Robert Kalsu (Bob Kalsu) a former pro football player was the Executive Officer
(XO), and the nicest guy you will ever meet and led by example (0:19:57)
He joined early in the Ripcord campaign, right when it opened up (0:20:29)
The Ripcord operation kept getting worse and worse every day (0:20:47)
o Guns were run almost 24/7.
o Infantry units in the field were taking a beating and calling for support.
o They slept when they could, and would sometime go days without sleep
No sense of how effective their fire was aside from body counts. They were not
privileged to that type of information, it was not filtered down to men with guns
(0:21:59)
Not much contact with infantry unit except for when they came back for supplies
(0:22:12)
There were problems with resupplies, they needed more of everything (0:22:54)
o Ammunition
o Food
o Water
Saw Lieutenant Colonel Lucas (Andre Cavaro Lucas) fly in and fly out quite often,
but Colonel Lucas did not come around the artillery often (0:23:08)
From the beginning to the end, he does not believe they were there to win the war
(0:23:56)
Had the sense at the time, that they were not supported properly (0:24:27)
The morale of the unit at Ripcord was low, but he had a good crew of good men
(0:24:58)
He stayed with the battery until November 23rd, 1970 after Ripcord ended, and then
got out and went home (0:25:22)
No recollection of how Ripcord ended- he was on R&R because he was wounded.
Spent 21st birthday in Sydney, Australia (0:25:32)
Was hit and wounded by a mortar round at Ripcord (0:26:01)
At Ripcord, sometimes ammunition supplies were hit and blew up. That is what
destroyed the 10 Deuce battery [the other artillery battery on the base] (0:26:17)
Was wounded on the 19th or 20th of 1970, right before they abandoned Ripcord on
the 23rd (0:26:45)
Enjoyed the 1-week R&R trip to Australia, went to Sydney and Hyde Park
(0:27:08)
Returned to Vietnam for the remainder of the tour, and the rest was a blur (0:28:23)
(0:28:34) After Service
Took a commercial flight back to the United States. They flew into Fort Lewis,
Washington (0:28:35)
Was welcomed back by his parents (0:28:51)
Was not aware of how Vietnam was being reported in the news while he was in
Vietnam and even before he left for Vietnam during training (0:29:06)
He did receive letters from family while he was in Vietnam, which was the only
�
communication while he was there. He would write back, but did not tell them
anything that was going on in Vietnam or that he was wounded (0:29:19)
His wound consisted of shrapnel in the thigh (0:29:38)
Was discharged at the end of 1970 and tried to find a job but there was not anything
available at the time (0:29:53)
o After the 1st of the year (1971) he got a job at a coal mine for a couple of
years
o Next he got a job truck driving, and that is the occupation he retired from,
he drove a truck for 32 years
People did not ask about Vietnam once he returned (0:30:24)
Went to a reunion in Fredericksburg, Virginia (0:30:28)
They were not exposed to civilians in Vietnam because they were typically isolated
out on a hilltop (0:31:52)
There was a little drug use on the firebase (0:32:16)
Race relations were not a problem at all (0:32:51)
o His best friend David Johnson served on Randy Burdette‟s crew
Everyone made an effort to get the job done (0:33:42)
Had a sense of responsibility toward the infantry men that were out in the field
(0:33:55)
�
Dublin Core
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Veterans History Project
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
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The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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RHC-27
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eng
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
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MartinA1282V
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Martin, Alfred (Interview outline and video), 2011
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Martin, Alfred
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Alfred Martin was born and raised in western Pennsylvania. He grew up in a family of farmers. He was drafted into the Army in January, 1969, not long after finishing high school. He completed Basic Training, Artillery School and NCO school before departing for Vietnam in January, 1970. He was assigned to 2/11 Field Artillery, a 155mm howitzer unit attached to the 101st Airborne Division. He served on several different firebases, notably Ripcord, where there was heavy fighting in June and July. He was wounded on Ripcord, and after he came back he continued to serve with his battery until he was sent home in late November.
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
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Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
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eng
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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2011-09-05
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a39dfad485ed92700c047161e7b9c0e2.mp3
de225e3cb115bf318920e7aa93879642
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1e9cc2cd64118f0077e8df7218ca059c.pdf
092dd82edaf40c71d55ea6f26fe50195
PDF Text
Text
GV043-07
Connected Exhibit Interviews
Interviewee: Samm Martin
Interviewers: Gayle Schaub, Cara Cadena
Date: May 18, 2016
Gayle:
Ok, so now we're ready. Now we're recording, I think. We'll see.
Samm:
Ok.
Gayle:
So you can tell us anything you want to tell us…you can start with your name, what
you majored in maybe? Whatever.
Samm:
00:17
Well, my name is Samm Martin and I majored in political science and I minored in
Spanish at Grand Valley. I just graduated, in April and I will be returning in the fall
for my graduate program which is higher education and I’ll be majoring in college
student affairs leadership. Like…when I think about like a story I would want to tell
people I have to start by saying that I’m not from Michigan.
I’m from a town in Maryland on the East coast called Laurel and it’s a pretty small
city, but it’s got a lot. There’s a lot of different people, a lot of diverse people there.
And you know, originally thinking about where Grand Valley was I wasn’t really
thinking about it when I was in high school and trying to figure out where I wanted
to go to college because I wanted to play. And I wanted to play lacrosse and you
know, I wanted to be a student athlete and have all the great stuff that comes with
that, too, so when I got an email from the coach saying to come out I was like
‘what?!’ like Michigan? Like that’s so far away. I don’t want to go there because I
heard the winter’s terrible. But I got up here and it was everything that I wanted;
small school feel but it was a big student body from what I understood. It was a
place where I could make an impact if I wanted to. And I think I would be remiss if I
didn’t say anything about how Grand Valley has the opportunities to be able to do
whatever you want to do, and to be able to have the resources that we have here to
be able to be successful and feel like you know that you have a place here and to
feel like there’s a sense of belonging. Cause especially being from, you know, 600
miles away I don’t have any family out here it was pretty important that I find a
group of people that I felt comfortable with, and I did, and that helped me get
through my four years and my eventual two that I’ll have here as well.
I just think that if I had to talk to a freshman about, you know, getting through
college and getting through Grand Valley I would just tell them to find people that
they trust and find people that they care about and that care about them because
college is not something that you can get through by yourself and a lot of us know
that but a lot of us don’t really understand that until we’re put in that situation and
until we are actually confronted with the fact that we can’t you know pull a 3.0 GPA,
or make it through rough nights without our families, by ourselves. And that can
make all the difference when it comes to being successful in college or not wanting
to be around anymore. And I think that finding people who…whoever it may be, a
�wide range of people can make all the difference in the college experience and I’m
glad that I found mine here at Grand Valley so.
Gayle:
Were your first group, your “people,” that you found was it first the team?
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
Is it still?
Samm:
3:34
Gayle:
Samm:
It’s a little bit of all over the place cause it’s still…when you come in you know who
your teammates are, and you meet them right away, but then I had my freshman
year dorm people – we all lived in the same building. We’re still all very close, we
still talk to each other a lot.
What dorm was that?
3:49
North- it’s called Weed now but it was North A Living Center. And it was, you know
that was not necessarily traditional so you didn’t meet with so many people but we
had a lot of camaraderie on our floor and we hung out a lot together. And as the
years went by I met people in my classes who introduced me to other people and I
eventually found kind of like a home in the Women’s Center and the LGBT Center.
They were people who really taught be about like community and what solidarity
was and just having the sort of navigational skills that I needed to get through
college. I found them late, my junior year, but it still helped. Especially with trying to
navigate the next phase of life, like grad school and eventual job hunting and things
like that. And they set me up with a lot of good opportunities too.
Cara:
So they were a big part in you going to grad school?
Samm:
Yes.
Cara:
Okay.
Samm:
4:54
Cara:
Samm:
Yes, and just helping me like find that I could do it.
Yeah.
4:58
Cause like my GPA like wasn’t all the way where it wanted it to be, where it
should’ve been, but I did some work, did a lot of work this past year, and it brought
it up a lot, and they were just always encouraging. You know, giving me the tools I
needed to success, to find success, but you know, pushing me to do that for myself,
and they were my biggest cheerleaders. And especially my teammates and my
coach, like, they’ve always been there for me, and just helping me out.
Gayle:
So I have two more questions now.
Samm:
Okay.
Gayle:
Number one. When you say you found them late, like I want to know how you
found them. Like how you…okay, that’s the first question. I hope I remember the
other one.
�Samm:
5:42
Okay so, when I say I found them late, I went…well…I’m out, queer, LGBT person,
but when I first started at Grand Valley, I wasn’t, and I, just on a whim, I saw that
the LGBT center was having an event, and I just went. I was by myself, and then I
met this person, and he said “well come into the center tomorrow, like I’ll be in
there, you’ll meet a few cool people.” And I was nervous as all get out like not
knowing what to expect because it’s a new space with new people, but I just went in
and everybody was like “how are you.” Like asking me all of these question about
my life story and stuff, and they introduced me to more people. So I guess finding it
just means that I just went in one day.
Gayle:
Okay. I just wanted to know how you connected.
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
Because I’m curious about how people make these initial connections.
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
And if it’s something you sought out or you… or it sought you out.
Samm:
No. I would definitely say that it sought me out, and I just kind of like followed it.
Gayle:
So as for grades, do you think being a student athlete is tough to maintain. Is that
part of it?
Samm:
6:50
Oh, yeah! Definitely, because when you’re a student athlete you give so much of
your time, and it’s like nobody jokes when they say it’s a fulltime job, because it is.
Like, you have to eat right, keep your body like a well-oiled machine, like keep going,
and you also have a huge time commitment. Lacrosse did teach me about time
management in that regard. But there are a lot of different types of stressors that
student athletes have over just your normal students. I think, you know, it took me a
while to kind of like get that under control and like not feeling overwhelmed all the
time. But it is possible, and I had to really reach out to, you know tutors and my
academic advisor and my coach, and just like, “hey I need help with this.” Like…and
that’s a big thing too. Like I was…I never had to study in high school. So getting to
college and having to study and having to ask for help was one of the hardest things
that I’ve ever had to do. But then once I did, I had a lot of success in that regard,
when it came to my grades.
Gayle:
We’re hearing that, over and over.
Cara:
Did you go visit home a lot?
Samm:
8:05
No, I went home for Thanksgiving and Christmas, the two big holidays. Spring break
was with the team. I went home for my freshman year summer, and then
sophomore and junior year I stayed and I worked over the summer. And this
summer I’m going home for maybe six weeks, but that’s because like, I’m about to
be in grad school. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to go home ever again, like,
that type of thing. And just being able to see my parents, and my brother’s going to
�college this year too, so…for the first time. So I want to be able to set him up and
make sure that he has everything that he needs before he leaves so…
Gayle:
Samm:
So if we were to… if you were to kind of think about any stand out moments that
might… if you had like a range of emotions that you could pick one from happy to
angry, to sad, to frustrated, to proud, to…did I say frustrated? Anything. Could you
think of anything like, “there was a time that I felt…when that was awesome,” or
“that time was awful,” or “I can’t believe I made it through that.”
9:17
Gayle:
Samm:
Cara:
Yeah, well one moment sticks out to me in particular. I just remember it was my
winter semester of my freshman year, and the first semester grades came back and
they were terrible. And I told my dad, but I didn’t tell my mom, and I was sitting in
my apartment just on the phone with my mom and she was like upset about my
grades because they weren’t good. Like you want your child to be successful in all
ways possible, but I was just feeling so defeated. Just because my… like I went into
finals with a good GPA and It came out and it was awful, and just… I didn’t feel like I
could continue. And then I started getting into some destructive behavior, and that
wasn’t good either. But, I’m here. Like that’s one of the things that I didn’t think that
I would ever make it through. Cause I’m here now. I’m clean. Sober. I don’t… I didn’t
really use drugs or anything, but I consumed very large amounts of alcohol. Which is
something that students do… in college they do that. Like we know that they do
that, but not to the extent that I was. And I think that getting through that and
finding other ways of coping was something that I thought that I was pretty proud
of, and especially sitting down at commencement and like looking around, seeing
my name in the book, that I graduated and I made it. Like I didn’t graduate with
honors or anything, but I did it, you know? Just having that sense of
accomplishment is something that I’m super proud of. And especially looking from
that moment to where I am now, going to grad school, and having a career out of
that, is something that I never thought I would get to, but I am so…
Okay, so not knowing all like these stories are coming out that I didn’t… so do you
think that it was… is there… how did you… I don’t want to… you don’t have to tell
me anything you don’t want to tell me, but getting through that was it reaching out
to some of these services or you just made it through on your own?
11:30
Oh, I definitely had help. I used the counseling center. I had a tutor to help me get
my grades up. My coach was incredible with helping me. Just because, you know,
she has done a lot of work with students like that, a lot of work with… I wouldn’t
necessarily say crisis students, but student who need help, and who need guidance
through things, and she was just incredible. Like she understood. Like she still
pushed me to do the best that I could, but she really just was amazing. And then
some of my teammates knew too. Like I couldn’t have been able to do… I wouldn’t
been able to do this by myself. Like at all.
They saw something that you couldn’t see at the time.
�Samm:
12:27
Cara:
Samm:
Yeah, and they still do. They still see things that I don’t see in myself, and it takes…
they try to show me that every day. And I was sitting in my coach’s office once, and
cause… like they tell me… they would tell me things that I wouldn’t necessarily
believe. And she said “you know, sometimes you need people to tell you things that
you might not necessarily believe about yourself so you do.” Because if someone
just says like ‘hey, you’re so awesome’ all the time it’s just like ‘yeah’, you know,
whatever. But like having you have an impact with your teammates and with the
people that surround you and seeing that manifest itself can make it be of a
difference of how I see myself. If that makes sense.
It does.
13:15
So, it’s definitely not something that I would’ve been able to do by myself. And I
didn’t tell my parents this until, like retroactively, because I didn’t-I don’t want my
parents to worry about me having an alcohol problem.
Gayle:
Oh, so they didn’t know you were going through all this?
Samm:
No.
Gayle:
Ugh, and you were so far from home.
Samm:
13:32
Mhmm, and I think that’s one of the things that made it easier for me because I
know if I would’ve told my mom I was going through that stuff she would’ve been
like, “You’re coming home” like “you’re not going to handle this” like “you don’t
ever have to worry about being alone and vulnerable” and that’s not what I
would’ve wanted, because I’m not the type of kid who needs to be under their
parents all the time and I think that that probably would’ve done more harm than
good.
Gayle:
As a mom I would’ve wanted you to come home.
Samm:
Yeah…
Cara:
Me too.
Samm:
14:03
And that’s understandable. That’s completely understandable because you don’t
want your child to be out where you can’t get to them and just be hurting.
Cara:
Right…but as a child I wouldn’t have told my mom either.
Gayle:
Do you think some of it was because you were so far away? Do you think if you went
to school in Maryland this…
Cara:
Yeah that’s a good question…
Gayle:
Like this, like your situation would’ve been different? Or do you think…was it the
stress of being an athlete or…? I mean we don’t have t-you don’t have to diagnose
all the problems.]
Samm:
Well…I don’t know…
�Cara:
Samm:
It’s kinda hard to say, isn’t it?
14:35
Gayle:
Samm:
Well what you said about high school being-coming early that seems to be a very
common theme of hitting that wall of “oh, this isn’t high school anymore” and then
how you cope with all that is the real, the real story.
15:30
Gayle:
Samm:
Yeah. Yeah, I was at the top of my class in high school and I got here and it was like
nope, just kidding! You know? I hit a brick wall, but I also dug myself into a hole
because I was taking 200 and 300 level classes my first semester cause I came in
with credits, I was in the Honors College, and I didn’t want to be in the Honors
College anymore because it was too stressful and it was just…the first semester was
a huge, huge reality check. Huge reality check.
So what have been some outstanding classes? What would be the ones that you
would say ‘yep, that one really’ either good or bad that kind of stand out for having
an impact of some sort.
16:15
Gayle:
Samm:
Yeah. I think that you know I still would’ve had my-I would’ve been, I wouldn’t have
been an athlete if I went home. If I had gone to College Park, I wouldn’t have been. I
mean I would’ve had a different set of obstacles and I think that the problems would
not have necessarily gone away they just would’ve been different. I wouldn’t be
living at home cause dad doesn’t want us to live at home, so I would’ve been on
campus and I would’ve been able to go home whenever I wanted to but…I mean it’s
really hard to say to try to think about where I’d be if I didn’t pick Grand Valley and I
can’t so, I don’t know.
Well…I took black feminist thought fall semester of my senior year and that class
was just like…oh my God, like oh my god incredible! Like you learn—and I
regret…ugh I shouldn’t say I regret taking political science as a major because I
don’t. It taught me so many things about the world and it taught me how to write
incredibly like it taught me how to be disciplined and be purposeful with my writing,
but if I would’ve been able take women and gender studies classes and make that a
bigger forefront into my education I feel like I would’ve been just like so much
happier. Like I took black feminist thought, intro to LGB—no…yeah I took intro to
gender studies and I took women and gender studies classes and I was just like “why
didn’t I take these sooner?!” Like I feel like everybody should be required to take a
class like that cause it teachesWho taught it? The black feminist thought class?
17:13
Dr. Weekley, and she let us, she gave us readings that we thought were impossible.
Some of the most academic writings about, you know, things that we knew already
like we understand what institutionalized oppression means, okay so say it in ways
that we understand and we just struggled with readings and we would be in the
same room for ten hours trying to figure things out, but at the end of the class like,
I…just felt great about it and knowing that there is a world that we live in that isn’t
the greatest for women, it isn’t the greatest for people of color, but in
�understanding what the problem is and how it works we can try and find a way to
fix it. And I learned that with Dr. Weekly and Dr. Keegan too. Cause those were the
two…the professors that really stuck with me the most. And just learning—I learned
so much about my black and female identity and also my queer identity through
those classes so I think those stuck with me a lot more too cause having texts that I
can relate too even though these people are far more advanced in their education
than I am, or have a lot more life experience than I am, like we go through the same
things. And having that relatability is something that I thought was needed and
something that I thought was awesome that I could relate to those things and I still
kept all my stuff and I just like reading through them and seeing how I process
through that type of theory.
Cara:
It’s motivating too, to be able to identify with somebody like that.
Samm:
Mhmm
Cara:
So, in grad school do you get to have any involvement with the team at all or is
lacrosse over?
Samm:
As far as the player side it’s over…
Cara:
Yeah
Samm:
19:08
And I’m like…I still can’t believe it. We had that last game and I was just sobbing just
because something that I have done for over half my life is over. But I talked with
my co- I’m in conversation with my coach right now to see if there’s other things I
can too like I’m trying to commentate on the live streams of the game or something
like that. That would be so cool and especially since I know the game, I know our
players and stuff like that and I’m pretty cool with people in the athletic department
I guess. But I still do want to stay involved cause this program has given me so
much. And…understanding the, our program is very young we’re only six years old
and we made it to the national tournament like that’s unheard of. And like
understanding that it’s not for us right now, it’s for the people who come after. And
I’m just excited to see like this program just take off cause there’s so much potential
in the classes coming up and just seeing what we can really do with something that I
want to be a apart of whether it’s behind the scenes or in the forefront, and I’m
generally a behind the scenes kind of person.
Gayle:
So the graduate program, I mean it seems a natural fit for you, to turn around now
and do for others what
Samm:
Mhmm.
Gayle:
And I use everything you’ve learned
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
How did you connect with this program?
Well-
�Gayle:
Samm:
Someone suggested it or did you just…?
20:36
Well I met some people when I first started coming to the LGBT center. Like I met
people who wanted to do student affairs. And they wanted to work with college
students and they wanted to, do that whole thing. In the fall of me senior year I had
to step up as a student leader in the LGBT center, and kind of like I’ve had to, serve
students and be a liaison for students and administration, and things like that. And I
met some people like Tekeelia Garrett the Student Ombuds, I met her, I had gotten
more in touch with Title IX and I&E (Inclusion and Equity) and I was just thinking to
myself like, “where were these people when I was a freshman?” Like where are all
these people like who just have your back like unconditionally no matter what like,
where were they when I was a freshman? And I was like “Oh, I can do that” like I
can be that person that I needed when I was a freshman, and it just clicked. And I
started applying for fellowships and going to conferences and I was like, like, I feel
like I just wouldn’t be happy anywhere else. And I told my mom I didn’t want to do
political science anymore or go to law school anymore and she goes “whatever you
do, do not change your major” like “you are not staying there for three more years,
like, I’m not paying for that.” And I was like no I’m not doing that but I’m just going
to go to grad school for something different. And it just makes sense. Like the type
of person that I am it just makes all types of sense.
Gayle:
So you said “I had to step up” that’s in itself a self-imposed “I had to step up.”
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
There was no requirement that to-
Samm:
22:10
No. We had a problem, and I can’t speak too much on it but we had a problem, and
there was a lack of trust in the whole dynamics of, between students, between
administrators, between, you know, the higher, higher-ups. And I took it upon
myself along with another student to really like I had to be tough with the
administrators because, you know, that’s how we get our voices heard as students.
We have to kind of be in your face like, you have to understand what happens and,
you know, be the type of person who is not going to stop until we get justice and we
get what we need. I felt that I had to do that because I wasn’t just going to sit idly
by and watch student be discontent and have people leave the center and things
like that. So…
Gayle:
Well when you say “where were these people when I was a freshman?” I mean I
realize the Ombudsman position is relatively new, but the other roles, you didn’t
know about them or just, you mean that some of them just weren’t in existence
yet?
Samm:
Well I just didn’t know.
Gayle:
Okay.
�Samm:
24:00
Like, I met Marla this semester, not this semester but this year. She’s the new
(Assistant Director) of the LGBT center and I, like, she has been incredible. Like, I
wish I would have known her when I was a freshman. Like, not where were you
when I was a freshman but I wish I would have known you-
Gayle:
Yeah.
Samm:
When I was a freshman.
Gayle:
I wanted to see what you had meant by that.
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
Because I’m always wondering how, if there is a way with students who feel like
there’s so much to know when you get here so it’s impossible to know it all. It’s
impossible to know what you need.
Samm:
Right.
Gayle:
Until you know you need it.
Samm:
Right.
Gayle:
But I am always curious if there’s any way these kinds of support services can make
themselves more visible that aren’t, like, fair tables.
Samm:
Yeah.
Gayle:
So, I guess it is a point of need kind of thing. When student needs something they
realize there are these programs. This kind of thing is what we’re hoping will help.
People will go ‘Oh I didn’t know that was there.
Cara:
Or if there RA’s would be educated on all these services.
Samm:
Yeah, and I’m just glad because I accepted a grad assistantship in housing. So I’ll be
in there and depending on where I am I’ll be able to help students with that to.
Cara:
That makes so much sense that they put you in housing.
Samm:
Cause so many people got through that.
Gayle:
Yeah, and you could just be there listening and watching.
Cara:
You could just be there to answer questions.
Samm:
Mhmm.
Gayle:
So lacrosse is varsity?
Samm:
Mhmm. There’s a club team to but I was on the varsity one.
Gayle:
But you could be involved in the club team couldn’t you? Or there’s no more
eligibility or?
�Samm:
Yeah, I don’t have eligibility anymore.
Gayle:
You could coach couldn’t you?
Samm:
Yeah I could.
Cara:
Or recruit.
Samm:
Yeah, that’ll take time. I just need to figure that out.
Cara:
How exiting.
Samm:
Yeah. I’m really pumped to see where these next two years will take me.
[Off the record chatting removed]
Gayle:
Samm:
Is there anything else you want to tell me?
25:25
I mean not that I can think of.
Gayle:
You’ve always lived on campus?
Samm:
I, um, for the first two years I did and then my third year I live in Campus View. So
that’s basically on campus, it’s not like far away.
Gayle:
But then as an RA?
Samm:
I will be on campus, yeah.
Gayle:
You don’t know where?
Samm:
No.
Gayle:
So wherever they put you.
Samm:
Yup.
Gayle:
Ok.
Samm:
I got requested to go to the South Apartments, like in the back so maybe I’ll be there
but I’m not sure. I either wanna be back there or up North with freshman.
Gayle:
And there’s a new freshman situation.
Samm:
Mhmm.
Gayle:
I don’t know. The HHLLC or something.
Samm:
Yeah, it’s a living and learning center.
Gayle:
But it’s formed now like the way I lived in a dorm. Which is room with beds, and
then room beds, and then a common bathroom. Because they are finding that the
suite situation is not as helpful to students because they cluster off and they stay in
their own little apartments. Whereas, you know when you have to share a
�bathroom you have a common space it’s better for community building and working
through all that stuff.
Samm:
Yeah, but they’re tearing down the Ravines which I’m not happy about but that’s
another story for another time. (laughter)
Cara:
Another exhibit.
End
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Connected Exhibit Interviews
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries
Description
An account of the resource
Collection of audio recordings and transcripts of Grand Valley State University students sharing their stories and experiences. The recordings were conducted as part of an exhibit created by the University Libraries in fall semester of 2016 titled "Connected" which featured short audio clips of students. The clips were combined with watercolor portraits of GVSU students by Ellie Lubbers and an interactive watercolor painting activity. Students were encouraged to paint 3" circles of paper to illustrate their current feelings about the college experience and attach them to the gallery wall. The aim of the exhibit was to inspire feelings of community, connectedness, and welcome to new and returning students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/626">University Libraries. Connected exhibit files</a>
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Universities and colleges
Michigan
College students
Oral histories
Education, Higher--United States--Anecdotes
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Cadena, Cara; Schaub, Gayle; Frigo, Emily; Lubbers, Ellie; Fisher, Erin
Identifier
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GV043-07
Format
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Type
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Sound
Text
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
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Creator
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Martin, Samm
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-18
Title
A name given to the resource
Samm Martin interview (audio and transcript)
Type
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Sound
Text
Contributor
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Schaub, Gayle (interviewer)
Cadena, Cara (interviewer)
Identifier
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GV043-07_MartinS_2016-05-18
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/626">University Libraries. Connected exhibit files</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401
Relation
A related resource
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Connected Exhibit, September 2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Samm Martin conducted by Gayle Schaub and Cara Cadena for the GVSU Libraries' Connected Exhibit, displayed in September 2016. Edited clips of interviews accompanied watercolor portraits of students and an interactive watercolor activity for exhibit visitors. Samm graduated in April with a degree in political science. She will be entering the Master’s program in College Student Affairs Leadership (CSAL) in fall. Samm was a 4-year varsity lacrosse player who came to GVSU from Maryland. Samm has worked in the Milton E. Ford LGBT Resource Center and is involved the Women’s Center. As an undergrad, she was a leading advocate for inclusion and equity for students on campus. Samm struggled with and overcame some self-destructive behavior in her freshman year. The support she received from campus support services inspired her future career path. As graduate student, Samm also works as an Assistant Living Center Director and hopes to be to other new students what so many here were to her.
Format
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Subject
The topic of the resource
Universities and colleges
Michigan
College students
Oral histories
Education, Higher--United States--Anecdotes
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7dc66b3d01c731e2698ac2cc3a7252a2.pdf
b24353e2d50a0345b9f50159b1d6e787
PDF Text
Text
Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Charlyne Martínez-Villegas
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 6/5/2012
Biography and Description
Charlyne Martínez-Villegas came to Grand Rapids, Michigan from New Jersey where she loved it
because there were many Puerto Ricans. In Grand Rapids she was only one of a few. Another reason
that she loved New Jersey is that that is where her mother and father were still married. She explains
that as soon as their family arrived in Grand Rapids, her parents divorced. Her mother worked hard
trying to make ends meet, preparing homemade pasteles that people would order from her ahead of
time and then she would have to have them ready at all hours of the day or week. Eventually her
mother’s homemade business led to opening up a small restaurant on Grandville Avenue which is
always filled with patrons. In Grand Rapids, Ms. Martínez-Villegas began to get in trouble at school and
in the neighborhood on the southeast side of the city, by Garfield Park. She missed her friends back in
New Jersey and in school “she just did not fit in…the kids were mostly white, or black.” She explains that
she could relate a little better with black children because they shared a lot of things in common. She
also missed her father. The Young Lords were passing out flyers door-to-door. But they did not use the
name “Young Lords” publicly. Instead they called themselves the “KO CLUB.” And they had a way with
words. She explains that they had to read some pledges and phrases and everything began with KO:
“Keep Open Your Hearts” or “Keep Standing Up for Yourself” or “Keep Open Your Mind.” Their meetings
were held in a United Methodist Church, and the heads of the KO Club were Pastor Marge Berman, who
�was of Mexican descent, and Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. Members of the Club were also shown
several videos about the Young Lords.The young people who participated in the Club and the small
congregation were supportive. But there were a few within the church who did not like the Young Lords,
who had taken over Methodist Churches in New York and Chicago. Those same individuals also did not
like Pastor Berman, who was new and wanted more interaction with the community. Pastor Berman had
read a newspaper article about the Young Lords while Mr. Jiménez was working as a substance abuse
counselor for Project Rehab. She contacted him by phone. And when they met for the first time, Pastor
Berman told him that he was sent by God. To which Mr. Jiménez replied, “Did God send any money?
Because I have bills.” Mr. Jiménez did want to organize and help youth, but he wanted to do so around
issues related to the Young Lords. Pastor Berman just wanted to save souls. It was a good
understanding, but Mr. Jiménez would have to work incognito because using the name Young Lords
name would be like saying the word “gang” in Grand Rapids. The KO Club worked well because it was
not an after school program. It was an “in the neighborhood program.” It was focused on youth like Ms.
Martínez-Villegas who did not want anything to do with school. And while others were saying to all
youth who got in trouble, “Lock them up and throw away the key.” the KO Club had their own public
slogan: “Support Youth For A Change.” Parents had to get involved, because the KO Club would visit
them in their home and let them know that they were not babysitters. Once a month parents would
attend amateur night where the KO CLUB members would perform for them and the rest of the
community. Organizing was constantly being done door-to-door. KO CLUB was like a good gang and
everyone was a member. Their colors were black and purple, but their symbol was a heart with KO in
the middle and a cross above the heart. Once a year there was an annual dinner with the community
where many members of the United Methodist Church attended including the Bishop. It was cost
effective as it was run more like support groups divided by age: pee wee, juniors, and seniors. They
would all have a chance to express themselves in a variety of ways, including discussion, with music, or
in sports. The only problem came from the adults. Some wanted to make it more ecumenical to include
the community at large and others wanted the organization to be more faith-based. Still others wanted
control. And Pastor Berman was moved to a church in Los Angeles, California. Mr. Jiménez was left
alone, fighting church elders who were paranoid that Mr. Jiménez might want to speak for the church.
Mr. Jiménez understood their fears and resigned in an amicable way. The youth program continues
today and it is being run more privately within the church. Ms. Martínez-Villegas says that it is what she
needed then with the loss of her father, and that participating in the KO Club turned her life around.
�Transcript
JOSE JIMENEZ:
If you can give me your name, your date of birth, and where you
were born.
CHARLYNE VILLEGAS-MARTINEZ:
Charlyne Martínez-Villegas, 7/23/87 in
Caguas, Puerto Rico.
JJ:
Seven -- 7/23/87 in Caguas, Puerto Rico.
CMV: Yes.
JJ:
Oh, that’s pretty good. You know, I’m from Caguas, too.
CMV: Oh, (Spanish) [00:00:19 - 00:00:22] probably if you were born in the same one, it
doesn’t exist anymore.
JJ:
So you were born in the city?
CMV: I really don’t know because after being three months old, Mom moved us to New
Jersey.
JJ:
But you said Villegas. You said --
CMV: Mm-hmm, yeah.
JJ:
Okay. And so what year did you come? You said after three years old, you
moved to --
CMV: No, three months.
JJ:
Oh, three months.
CMV: So in ’87, we moved to Newark.
JJ:
To Newark, New Jersey?
CMV: Mm-hmm.
1
�JJ:
And what do you remember of Newark? I mean, what -- how long were you -how long were you there?
CMV: It was craziness. I was [00:01:00] there till I was like six years old, six or seven
years old.
JJ:
Oh, okay. You said it was freezing?
CMV: No, it was crazy.
JJ:
Oh, really?
CMV: It was crazy. Of course, you’re not going to remember that much when you was
a little kid. But where we would live or whatnot, we lived on Mount Prospect in
Newark, we lived in South Orange and stuff. And it was fun because we had the
family around and everything. But at the same time, it’s like after a certain time,
we couldn’t go out of the house.
JJ:
Okay, so you had the family around but there were a lot more fam- -- there were
a lot more family living there in that area?
CMV: Mm-hmm.
JJ:
In that area?
CMV: Yeah.
JJ:
And was it a Puerto Rican neighborhood or...?
CMV: Yeah, it was. On Mount Prospect, I remember -- oh my goodness. It was always
a whole bunch of Puerto Ricans. Like in the apartments that we lived at, almost
[00:02:00] every single window had a Puerto Rican flag. So it’s -- the whole
neighborhood was full of Puerto Ricans. I think now, if I pass by Mount Prospect,
there, you hardly see the flags hanging up on the windows or anything like that.
2
�It’s more of a multicultural neighborhood now, but the Puerto Ricans that were
there before aren’t there now.
JJ:
And what happened to them?
CMV: To be honest with you, I’m not really sure what exactly happened to them. But as
far as I’m concerned, either they moved to different parts of Newark or they
moved to a different neighborhood or something like that.
JJ:
Okay. Did they move to like the suburbs or something or maybe they improved
or no?
CMV: They probably did improve because a lot of them were starting off on their own
businesses and stuff so they probably moved [00:03:00] to the suburbs to better
neighborhoods than to just living at a -- at that specific area. Got their own
houses and stuff like that.
JJ:
Was that area downtown or near the lake or near the ocean or...?
CMV: No, nothing like that. It was actually close to 2nd Ave so to get to downtown, it
was probably like 10 minutes or so.
JJ:
Okay, so it was 10 minutes to downtown?
CMV: Yeah, it was like 10 minutes to downtown depending in the traffic.
JJ:
So then, the rents must’ve went up or something like that, no?
CMV: Probably. I was too little to even know how much Mami and Papi were even
paying on their rent.
JJ:
Okay. Okay, so you lived there till you said you were like six years old?
CMV: Mm-hmm.
JJ:
So about five years or something like that?
3
�CMV: Yeah, like around five, six years, something like that, yeah.
JJ:
Five or six years. Okay, and then [00:04:00] what’s your brothers’ and sisters’
names? I mean, did you --
CMV: I’m the youngest of three so my brother’s the oldest. His name is [Brian?]
Martínez, and then my sister, she’s the middle child and her name is [Jocelyn
Martínez Espindola?]. She got married.
JJ:
What’s the last name?
CMV: Espindola.
JJ:
Espindola. Okay. Okay, and then so you came -- how did you get here to Grand
Rapids?
CMV: Car.
JJ:
You just drove in the car?
CMV: Yeah, we just drove in the car.
JJ:
You didn’t take the train (inaudible)?
CMV: No, no trains, no airplanes, nothing.
JJ:
All right. Did you know people here or...?
CMV: My mom, the reason that she moved over here is because of her sister. She’s
the one who moved my mom over here and told her that Grand Rapids was more
of a better place to raise your child, to start a family, the rent’s better and all that
stuff so that’s why my mom moved over here.
JJ:
So the rent’s better? What do you mean, the rent over there was too high or
something?
4
�CMV: Most likely, [00:05:00] that’s what my mom tells me is that the rent was too
expensive. And when she came over here, she was surprised at the rent, how
cheap it was.
JJ:
And were the houses bigger here or...?
CMV: Yeah.
JJ:
So the houses were bigger and the rent was cheaper here.
CMV: Exactly.
JJ:
So that -- okay. So what other reason did she move besides that? Or was that
the main reason?
CMV: That was one of the main reasons. The other reason -- the main reason would
be that the houses were bigger, more space for your money. And then also, it
was quiet, it was tranquil. It wasn’t -JJ:
It had less crime?
CMV: Exactly. The crime was not as high.
JJ:
There was a lot of crime there.
CMV: Too much.
JJ:
In the Puerto Rican neighborhood, there was a lot of crime.
CMV: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Okay. Drugs or gangs?
CMV: Drugs, gangs, fights, killings. You name it, it was there.
JJ:
Okay. [00:06:00] And so you came to Grand Rapids around what year? Do you
remember or...?
5
�CMV: We came to Grand Rapids probably like around ’94, ’95, somewhere around
there.
JJ:
And where did you move to?
CMV: When we moved over here, we started living at my aunt’s house, Aunt Eola, and
what street is that?
JJ:
How do you spell the name of...?
CMV: (inaudible) E-O-L-A.
JJ:
Oh, Eo-- Eola lived over there on --
CMV: Yeah, over there on -- off of 28th Street and, oh my goodness, I want to say
Madison?
JJ:
Okay, Madison?
CMV: Yeah. I think it was Madison and on 28th Street right behind the BP gas station
that’s there.
JJ:
Okay, I think I understand. I think I know where it’s at. It’s only like one block
behind half a block, half a block from 28th Street there.
CMV: Yeah, yeah.
JJ:
Okay. So okay, and your sister lived there? You say your aunt (inaudible)?
CMV: My mom’s sister, yeah. She lived there with her [00:07:00] husband and her
three kids. And so -JJ:
So you moved in the same house with them?
CMV: Yeah, we moved into the same house. They had the upstairs and we had the
basement.
JJ:
Okay, they had the house, they handled the house. It was their house or...?
6
�CMV: It was their house. We used to have so much fun when we were growing up in
there. We used to have barbeques almost every single weekend, we would -they would be in the garage roasting the pig, a la Varita like all Puerto Ricans do.
It was fun. Those were the good old days.
JJ:
Those were the good old days up there? Okay, so you say you used to roast a
pig? Not in the house. You didn’t kill the pig in the house, did you?
CMV: I think they did.
JJ:
(laughs) They did.
CMV: Yeah, they -- yeah, I’m telling you. When it comes to my -- back in the day, my
dad getting together with my aunt’s husband, it was -- I’m telling you. [00:08:00]
They could -- they would go into the garage, they would kill the rabbits so they
could be able to do the stew later on. I never ate that; That’s disgusting to me.
(laughs) They would roast the pork completely, they would make their own little
fire pit and they would roast the pork out in the backyard. So it was fun; We had
a lot of fun.
JJ:
Why wouldn’t they just go buy it at the store? I mean...
CMV: Because that’s not the Puerto Rican tradition. It’s not the Puerto Rican tradition.
Yeah, now, a lot of them, they just go to the store and get whatever part of the
pork they like. But I was always told that the Puerto Rican tradition, if they want
to have something traditional like they do it down at the island is get the pork, kill
it yourself, do morcillas with the pig intestines and stuff, and roast the pig.
JJ:
So morcilla -- okay, all right. So they did morcilla, okay. Morcilla is like blood
sausage or...?
7
�CMV: Yeah, blood sausage. They’re good, too.
JJ:
[00:09:00] Okay. Okay, so you’re living there at Eola and 28th and then you move
out or -- from there?
CMV: Yeah. After that, we moved to, oh my goodness, we moved to Union and Elliott
off of Burton. And we lived there from like ’96 and on.
JJ:
Now, I didn’t get your father and mother’s names. What are their names?
CMV: My dad’s name José Martínez is and my mom’s name is Glenda Villegas.
JJ:
Glenda --
CMV: Villegas.
JJ:
Villegas. Okay. And then what kind of work did they do?
CMV: My dad was a mechanic and my mom at that time when we first moved over here
to Grand Rapids was a stay-at-home mom for the time being, yeah.
JJ:
(inaudible) Okay. Now, didn’t she used to do some things? Did she sell bread,
some pasteles or something for a while, right?
CMV: She started selling the pasteles after [00:10:00] 2000. Before that, once she did
get a job, she started working for the central kitchen for D&W. And then the one
that would actually do the selling of something out of the house was her sister.
She would sell cakes out of her own home and that’s how she started her
business. And my mom would just do the pasteles and whatever on the side
whenever she had time.
JJ:
And that would get her like just to supplement her income, too, I bet.
8
�CMV: Yeah. Something, just like a little -- like if she needed -- like if we needed
something or she knew that there were, her and my dad, they knew that they
were going to be short for the month, she would do the little bit extra.
JJ:
Okay. Now, was that pretty good business or...?
CMV: It really was, yeah.
JJ:
It was?
CMV: Yeah.
JJ:
I mean, it did pay [00:11:00] the bills or pay...?
CMV: Yeah. It always paid the bills, it always put food on the table, gave us what we
needed and stuff. I’m not going to say that it was a fancy life or anything like that
but it did what it had to do every single month.
(break in audio)
JJ:
Okay, okay. So you came from New Jersey over here and you were talking
about the pasteles and that. But I mean, there was like a change, I mean, right?
CMV: A huge change.
JJ:
A huge change?
CMV: It was a huge change. The way that the neighborhood was and still is in Jersey
is the houses are right next to each other, there’s a bunch of buildings, it’s always
loud and everything. And then coming over here was so not that. There was
actual yards, there was spaces between [00:12:00] the houses and even the
apartments and stuff. And it wasn’t loud, it was quiet. It was something that,
seriously, we needed to get used to.
JJ:
Okay. So were you going -- where were you going to school at?
9
�CMV: When we moved over here, I started going to -- well, we actually ended up going
to three different elementary schools. We went to Burton Elementary, Buchanan
Elementary, and then we ended up staying at Alger Elementary.
JJ:
Why did you go in three different elementary schools?
CMV: Because of the district. Because of the district. That’s why we had to move from
different schools.
JJ:
Because you moved from one --
CMV: From one place to the other.
JJ:
Even though you didn’t really live that far. But you just happened to be on that
dividing line of the school and so you went to the three different schools.
CMV: I went to the three different schools.
JJ:
So how was that change for you in the school? How did that affect you?
CMV: [00:13:00] To be honest with you, it really didn’t affect me much because when I
was in elementary school, I really wasn’t a person that -- the person that I am
now. I wasn’t that person when I was a little kid.
JJ:
Why are you -- what do you mean the person that you are now?
CMV: The person that I am now is like very talkative. I talk to a lot of people or whatnot
just to get to know them or whatever. But when I was a little kid, you had to talk
to me first. If you wanted to talk to me or whatever, you had to come talk to me.
I wouldn’t go to you and start talking.
JJ:
And why was that? Any -- why do you think that?
CMV: I was more shy when I was a little kid. I wasn’t really outgoing, didn’t really have
a lot of friends in elementary school.
10
�JJ:
You’re talking about in Jersey, [00:14:00] you were shy.
CMV: No, I’m talking about here.
JJ:
Here in Michigan. Why were you shy? Did you go out and play a lot or
whatever?
CMV: Not really. I would always keep to myself. Which that was -- it was weird for me
because at Roberto Clemente over there in Newark, we -- I have so many
different friends and stuff of different cultures. I had Dominicans, I had Cubans,
white, Blacks, all different types of cultures, I had friends. And always talking,
playing with each other and stuff like that at school. And when I came over here,
it was like completely different. Weird looks from the little kids and stuff like that
and -JJ:
You get -- your what? Your look?
CMV: Weird looks.
JJ:
From the little kids or...?
CMV: Yeah, from the classmates and stuff. So that’s -- I think that’s where I -JJ:
What were the classmates? What nationalities were they?
CMV: American.
JJ:
[00:15:00] White American or...?
CMV: White American.
JJ:
And you got weird looks from them?
CMV: I would always get weird looks from them or whatnot. And the Hispanics, the
little bit of Hispanics that were even in my class when I was school or whatnot,
they were the same way that I was. They kept to themselves, they were quiet or
11
�whatnot. But if I would, like with my mom, if I would go out or something like that
to the store or something, I would see the same little kids and they were playing
with their own little friends with -- with friends of their own neighborhoods, of their
own culture. And it was different. They had their friends from their neighborhood
that they played with that they would laugh with and everything like that. But
when you would see them in school, it was like they kept to themselves, shy,
completely blocking everybody out [00:16:00] because of the looks that we were
getting when we were little kids.
JJ:
In the classrooms.
CMV: In the classroom, yeah.
JJ:
In the school. So it didn’t happen in the neighborhood because you were among
other --
CMV: Other people of our same culture of -- or even Blacks, African American Blacks.
That they would be in the neighborhood or whatnot. They would share the same
kind of culture as us because they would want to know more. You know, new
persons, new culture let’s learn more, let’s become friends and stuff like that. So
growing up, I was raised more around Hispanics and African Americans.
JJ:
And you get along fine at home.
CMV: Mm-hmm. We get along perfectly fine at home.
JJ:
Okay. So -- but in school, there was -- you can feel it. You can feel the
(inaudible) --
CMV: Yeah, you could feel that it -- that tension between [00:17:00] classmates or
whatnot.
12
�JJ:
Okay, so now, what school are -- so now, you’re still living there, don’t you? How
long did you live there?
CMV: Where?
JJ:
In this -- where you were -- was in Union that you mentioned near Burton?
CMV: Oh, on Union and Elliott. We lived there for -- since like ’90 -- I want to say like
’96, ’97. And we actually moved out of there in ’99. My mom and -- my mom
moved my brother, my sister, and myself to the neighborhood of Francis and
Griggs in ’98, ’99.
JJ:
In ’98, ’99?
CMV: Yeah, my mom and my dad, they separated. Since the house was underneath
my dad’s name, my mom went, she got her own house.
JJ:
What was some of the reasons they gave for separation? Do you know or...?
CMV: My mom cheated on my dad.
JJ:
Oh, your mom cheated.
CMV: Yeah, my mom cheated on my dad. (laughs)
JJ:
[00:18:00] It’s just plain --
CMV: Plain and simple, you know? And it was kind of difficult for me to understand, me
being the youngest. My brother didn’t care. He had his friends. He would be out
going out in the middle of the night and stuff like that. My sister, she had her own
little friends or whatnot that she made herself. And but me, it was kind of difficult
for me because I’m the youngest and I wasn’t understanding it, right? With my
dad would come to visit or whatnot. If he would see my mom’s boyfriend or
whatever, he would start arguing with him or whatnot and it was real difficult for
13
�me to understand and it tore me apart. And there was alternating weekends that
I would stay [00:19:00] with my dad and then stay with my mom. And jumping
back and forth -JJ:
Now, what tore you apart, the divorce or what ha- -- the cheating part?
CMV: The cheating part, to be honest with you.
JJ:
Why would that tear you apart?
CMV: That tore me apart because we were perfectly fine in Jersey to be honest with
you. If we would’ve stated in New Jersey, we would’ve -- I still believe that my
mom and my dad would still be together because we were around family and
friends that believed that family should stick together. And it was kind of weird
that after moving over here to Michigan a few years later, my mom and my dad
separate which to me, it wasn’t even right.
JJ:
Just in a few years it can just change.
CMV: In a few years, in a few years.
JJ:
Because there were -- you didn’t have any family there or...?
CMV: The only family that we had over here was my mom’s sister. That’s it.
Everybody else was over there in New Jersey.
JJ:
[00:20:00] So the moving kind of broke up the family.
CMV: Exactly. Yeah.
JJ:
So the fam- -- by then, there were gains and everything like that. And then
there’s --
CMV: There were gains over there and everything. But to be honest with you, as far as
I know from stories that my dad would tell me and everything was he knew in the
14
�neighborhood, whatever gang members were in the neighborhood, they were like
our protectors. You know, of course, yeah, I don’t even know what gang it was or
anything like that, but it was like their territory. Their -- they would protect
whoever lived in that area. If you lived on Mount Prospect and there was gang
members that lived right among us, they would protect us. They would protect
the area, the neighborhood, they protect it. So my dad, he could be outside with
his friends and stuff like that [00:21:00] and not have to worry about anything.
But they would let us know, look -JJ:
What about the group? And they would let us know what?
CMV: They would let us know, look, this is what’s going on or whatnot because they
would be enough friends and stuff. Everybody knew each other in the
neighborhood.
JJ:
And what about their favorite girls, the women? Would they be able to walk
freely or...?
CMV: At night time, no. At night time, no. The females, the way that they had them
was if you are walking down the street and you are with a guy, the guy should
always stand next to the street. He would walk in -- on the right side or the left
side depending if you’re going or coming. The female would always be on the
inside of the street, never on the outside. I really never understood that or
anything, but that’s just the way that it was. The females were always [00:22:00]
protected.
JJ:
Otherwise they would say that the (Spanish) or something.
CMV: Yeah. That’s what I understood afterwards.
15
�JJ:
Did you ever hear that term?
CMV: Yeah, like if the -- if you’re walking down the street with the -- with a guy friend or
whatnot and you’re the one walking next to the street or whatever, that means
that basically the guy that you’re with is selling you so I understood that
afterwards.
JJ:
But I mean, did they say that? I mean, you understood it. Did they said it?
CMV: I understood it afterwards.
JJ:
When I grew up, that’s what they said (inaudible).
CMV: Mm-hmm. Yeah, afterwards is when I understood what that meant. Because I
never understood why -- if I was with a cousin of mine or something like that, he
would tell me, “No, you’re standing over here. Get on my other side,” when we
would walk to the store or something like that. I never understood that. And after
I grew up a little bit more is when I understood what that meant.
JJ:
Now, the American kids, did they do that or that was just the Puerto Rican thing?
CMV: It was more of a Hispanic thing. It was more of the [00:23:00] Puerto Ricans and
stuff doing that.
JJ:
It was more Hispanic.
CMV: Because the Americans, they didn’t care. It was like, “I’m walking on this side,
you’re walking on that side. It doesn’t really matter or anything like that.”
JJ:
Interesting. Were there any other things like that in the culture that you recall
or...? Or off the top of your head.
CMV: Off the top of my head, when we were living -- the more memories that I have is
more of Mount Prospect in north Newark. And we would have -- even though we
16
�didn’t have a yard, we will still have barbecues. We had a little fenced-in bricks,
like cement floor or whatever. It was still fenced in.
JJ:
In the back or the front?
CMV: In the front. And we would have our little grill right there, some chairs, and we
would be cooking meat on the grill and everything, people from the neighborhood
would come over and we’ll make it into -- it will end up as a block party kind of
thing. It’ll start off as a barbecue and it’ll end up like a block party kind of thing.
[00:24:00] And that’s the way that it was. When the -- if you -- if the females were
outside with their parents and stuff, they always had to be with their parents and
stuff. But after it started getting dark, it really didn’t matter as much of the guys
being outside because they could protect their own. They could protect
themselves. But the females are more vulnerable or whatnot so the females
would stay inside.
JJ:
Now, did your mother tell you that or your father or who told you that?
CMV: No, just growing up, you knew about that.
JJ:
You knew that just (inaudible) --
CMV: Just in the neighborhood, you knew that.
JJ:
Not to do it.
CMV: Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Okay, so now you’re in Grand Rapids and you’re in Grand Rapids, Michigan and
you’re -- now you’re on Francis?
CMV: Yeah, Francis and Griggs. Nice neighborhood.
JJ:
Okay. And so your -- the divorce is taking place?
17
�CMV: Yeah, my mom and my dad.
JJ:
Did your mother remarry or no?
CMV: She [00:25:00] stayed with the guy that she cheated on my dad with. But after
that -JJ:
Well, he move in or...? Later after --
CMV: Yeah, he did move in for a few months or whatnot and then -JJ:
Was he Puerto Rican too or...?
CMV: No. He was white, white American. And he stayed there for a few months or
probably a year, I can’t remember right. And that’s when we moved into the
Francis and Griggs house, that’s when all three of us became rebellious.
JJ:
Okay. That time that you -- now, why would you become rebellious? From the
neighborhood or just from (inaudible)?
CMV: Me personally -- no, just because of what was going on at home. I became
rebellious, I didn’t want to go to school, I would hang around with kids from the
neighborhood or whatnot. If I did go to school, [00:26:00] I really wasn’t paying
attention or whatever. I would have breakdowns at school and -JJ:
What do you mean breakdowns?
CMV: Breakdowns. I would overthink what’s going on in my head. I would overanalyze
it. Like if I was having a problem at home or whatever or the stuff that was going
on between Mom and Dad, I would overanalyze it and I would just go to a little
corner of the coat closet or whatever in class and I wouldn’t let nobody get near
me or anything like that. If the kids would start laughing at me, I would cuss them
18
�out. I really didn’t care. I didn’t -- at a very -- at that young age in elementary
school, I really didn’t care. I just wanted to leave everything behind.
JJ:
What do you mean, what do you mean just leave --
CMV: Just leave everything behind. I wanted -JJ:
You weren’t thinking about suicide or anything?
CMV: No, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. [00:27:00] I wasn’t thinking about taking my
life or anything like that but I really wanted to just get my mom, get my dad, get
my brother and my sister and say, “You know what? F this, we’re going back to
Jersey.” Because the transition of moving from New Jersey to over here, to me
at that time and still today when I think about it, that’s the reason why my mom
and my dad separated. To me, that’s the reason. They could say, you know, we
fell out of love, there wasn’t nothing there tying us up together no more,
whatever, whatever. We were little kids. What do you mean there wasn’t nothing
holding -- tying it up together anymore? We were a family.
JJ:
So just the fact that you moved is the reason?
CMV: To me, that’s the reason why my mom and my dad separated.
JJ:
Because you went -- because you moved from where you had a lot of family --
CMV: And friends and stuff, we moved over here.
JJ:
-- to a place where you didn’t know anyone.
CMV: Exactly.
JJ:
And now, [00:28:00] the whole world just kind of changed? I’m not putting words
in your mouth.
19
�CMV: The whole world. No, no, no, no, no. It completely changed. It was something
that I wouldn’t even want.
JJ:
And where -- and you said your sisters were? Or your brother and your sister?
CMV: Yeah, my brother, he became rebellious leaving.
JJ:
Why kind of stuff did he do?
CMV: He would leave after school, he would leave. He wouldn’t come back home, he
would be hanging out with his friends drinking, partying, stuff like that. He was
the oldest so he would -- and since he’s a guy, my mom didn’t really worry about
what he was doing.
JJ:
So now he had friends. Now he had --
CMV: Yeah, he had friends at the time. He had friends and everything. And my mom
really didn’t care as much as what he did because since he’s the guy or whatnot
of her three kids, she really didn’t care what he did. [00:29:00] But when it came
down to my sister and myself, she tried to be more strict. And we found it to be
unfair. So my sister, she made friends with some neighbors or whatnot and she
did whatever she wanted to do. And then me, I try to be like my sister and my
brother. Did whatever I wanted to do and stuff like that, didn’t want to go to
school or anything, but -JJ:
And so then your mother is telling your brother that he can do whatever he wants
because he’s a boy.
CMV: Exactly, yeah.
JJ:
And was that just your mother or was that part of the --
20
�CMV: No, that was part of the -- the way that we were raised is the females would be at
home cooking, cleaning, attending to the father and to if there was any other
male family members or whatnot. [00:30:00] And after everything was done in
the house, then you could go ahead if there’s time. Then you could go ahead
and go play and do whatever. But the things of the house had to be done first.
JJ:
And you couldn’t stay out late.
CMV: Nope.
JJ:
So Griggs and Francis, is that where you started with the KO Club or...?
CMV: Yes.
JJ:
Okay. It was called the KO Club or Knockout?
CMV: Yeah. (laughs) To be honest with you, I thought that was the name of it at first,
Knockout Club. (laughs)
JJ:
(inaudible) Okay, so who was that about? Who was there? And where was it at?
CMV: It was on Francis and Burton. It was at a church.
JJ:
United Methodist Church, the big one?
CMV: Yeah, the big one. I never knew the name of that, but thanks for letting me know.
I didn’t know.
JJ:
United Methodist, United Methodist.
CMV: Okay. I never knew the name of it. I just knew exactly where I had to go. But it
[00:31:00] was -JJ:
And how did you find out about it?
CMV: Some kids of the neighborhood that actually told us about it.
JJ:
Just the kids right in the neighborhood knew about it?
21
�CMV: Mm-hmm, yeah.
JJ:
Okay, because they had gone door to door?
CMV: And they, yeah. No, they’ve ac- -- I guess they had gone before or they heard
about it or something like that. And then they -- word of mouth got out, basically.
JJ:
Word of mouth. They got in and they liked it or no?
CMV: Yeah, they liked it. There was various different type of cultures going over there.
There was Hispanics, there was the African Americans that were going. A few
white ones but not as much. But it was still fun.
JJ:
So when did they do this? What time? What hours?
CMV: It was like an after-school program for kids in elementary school, middle school
and stuff. I’m telling you, it was fun.
JJ:
And was it in the school or was it in the church?
CMV: No, it was in the church. It was like the [00:32:00] auditorium of the church.
JJ:
So it was an after-school program but it was done at the church in the
neighborhood. So that was the difference. Most after-school programs are done
in the schools.
CMV: Yeah. This one was more focused on the neighborhood kids.
JJ:
On the neighborhood kids. Okay. So it was to try to prevent --
CMV: Prevent them from becoming rebellious, stealing, gang banging and stuff like
that. It was a program that you would go there so you could be able to meet
more people of the community, do more activities. Keep us out of trouble.
JJ:
Was there trouble in the area before that?
22
�CMV: When we moved over there, we heard from our neighbors or whatnot that it was - that there was a lot of stealing, robbing, breaking and entering, and stuff like
that. And when this program emerged, [00:33:00] it was completely different.
We -- a lot of the kids from the neighborhoods that were going to this program
playing games, shooting basketball, jumping ropes and stuff like that in the
auditorium. Talking about their days with each other and whatnot at school, what
they learned, different types of things.
JJ:
So that means they had like little -- it was like a support type of thing or group or
something like that? Groups?
CMV: Yeah. It was the -- I’m not going to say that in this club, there was little groups or
whatnot but -JJ:
But they had different ages (inaudible).
CMV: Yeah, different ages. But to be honest, there was like little separate groups or
whatnot and I just kicked the camera.
JJ:
(inaudible)
CMV: But there was little groups or whatnot because of the ages. But then those would
even separate into even more little groups like the girls would go with the girls,
the guys would go with the guys or whoever knew [00:34:00] how to play
basketball would go with the basketball players and stuff like that. But other than
that, it was fun. I loved it. (laughs)
JJ:
Pretty good. Okay, now there was also -- do you remember any trips that they
made or...?
23
�CMV: Oh my goodness! There was one. I remember there was plenty of them but the
only one that sticks in my head because it was something that I always wanted to
do when I was a little kid was a trip that we did to Camp O’Malley. That was the
best for me.
JJ:
Okay. And you did a (inaudible)? Now, what was that like?
CMV: That? It was super fun. At first, I thought -- I was super geeked out, I was super
excited. I wanted to go, I wanted to go, I wanted to go.
JJ:
Actually, that was with the police. The KO Club worked with the police. They ran
the camp.
CMV: They did?
JJ:
Yeah, the police ran the camp.
CMV: Oh, well then dang.
JJ:
But the K -- but it was run by the KO Club. The KO Club kind of --
CMV: Gotcha. I was like hold up. (laugher)
JJ:
[00:35:00] Well, no, no, no. Well, no, no, I mean, the police were volunteers.
And they weren’t trying to find -- they weren’t trying to find out any --
CMV: Yeah, they weren’t trying to find no drug dealers or anything. (laughs)
JJ:
So it was because a lot of new members from the KO Club used to be in the
Young Lords. So that’s the -- (laughs) it was the Young Lords (laughs) and the
police working together.
CMV: God dang, yeah, they was just trying to protect us all. (laughs)
JJ:
So you didn’t know too much about the Young Lords.
CMV: No, I didn’t know nothing about them.
24
�JJ:
(inaudible) the KO Club.
CMV: Yeah, I knew that it was always called the KO Club.
JJ:
We did show some films, though, about Chicago and --
CMV: Yeah, you guys did.
JJ:
Do you recall those films that we showed?
CMV: I recall them but since I was so young and stuff like that, the thing -JJ:
Do you remember they were films about the Young Lords and stuff like that.
CMV: Yeah, there was always films, there was always talk about different activities,
different meetings, and stuff like that in our own community and we even went
out and did different types of vol- -- of things like that.
JJ:
[00:36:00] So what you’re trying to say is that there was -- the community
changed a little bit because of it.
CMV: Yeah, it did. To be honest with you, it changed a lot.
JJ:
How did it change?
CMV: It changed because the kids were occupied after school till probably dinner time
or whatnot.
JJ:
Their behavior, too, right?
CMV: Yeah. And there was a lot of different changes in the neighborhood. There
wasn’t as much what they like to say crime. There wasn’t that much of it. You
didn’t see the kids running around like they were animals or anything like that.
Because a lot of them, you would find them at the church.
JJ:
Because they knew each other now. So that’s -- it became more -- so if you walk
down the street now, you know everybody, everybody.
25
�CMV: Exactly.
JJ:
So everybody kind of looked out for each other.
CMV: Exactly.
JJ:
Am I putting words in your mouth?
CMV: No. (laughs)
JJ:
It just happens.
CMV: It actually -- after knowing [00:37:00] the kids in the neighborhoods and the
families because we would play at each other’s houses. And after knowing the
families or whatever, they actually brought me memories of when I lived at Mount
Prospect. That we all knew each other, that we all helped each other, looked out
for each other when it came to school or whatnot. The kids, the friends that went
to school together or whatever, we would help each other out in school work and
stuff so -JJ:
So even me saying the -- even me saying the KO Club, and I know you had a
long day today.
CMV: Who are you kidding? I had a very long day today.
JJ:
We were in your restaurant. What’s the name of your restaurant?
CMV: El Rincón Criollo.
JJ:
El Rincón Criollo in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
CMV: Yes.
JJ:
This is your mom’s restaurant.
CMV: Yes.
JJ:
Okay. How did this start?
26
�CMV: This start -- it’s been a passion of my mom for years [00:38:00] since she was a - in her teenage years. It’s always been a passion of hers to own a restaurant, to
cook and stuff like that and it finally came true for her back in September of 2009.
JJ:
And what sort of food do you serve there?
CMV: Authentic Puerto Rican food.
JJ:
And what does that mean?
CMV: It’s not food that’s -- that all you see around here is all Mexican food or Chinese
food or the dreaded fast food. Here, whatever you order from the menu, you
have -- you ha- -- depending on what you order is depending on how much time
you’re going to wait. But the seasonings and stuff like that that my mom has is of
course, yeah, is from Goya but is ingredients that she used growing up with
learning how to cook [00:39:00] with her mom and her dad and stuff. So it’s not
food that you’re going to come here once and never come here again because
the seasoning sucked. No. It’s actually food that a lot of Puerto Ricans, they
come here and or even Cubans, Dominicans, or whatnot. They come here and
it’s like it takes them back home back to their island. And it’s something -- it
brings a smile to my face every day.
JJ:
And she does the cooking and you do the cooking or (inaudible) together?
CMV: She is actually the one who taught me how to cook so it’s actually kind of
exciting. She cooks the rices, she cooks all the food or whatnot, but there’s a lot
of the things that she cooks that I know how to cook already. Sometimes I put
my own little twist to it but that’s when she’s not here.
27
�JJ:
See, I remember her because I used to buy pasteles from her. And so she’s did
the pasteles for a while first. So it was like a stepping stone?
CMV: Yes, it was.
JJ:
[00:40:00] But this is her first restaurant?
CMV: This is her first restaurant. It’s her pride and joy.
JJ:
And it’s going pretty well (inaudible).
CMV: Yes, it is.
JJ:
Okay. So okay. So I don’t know what else to say. Now, tell me about Camp
O’Malley again.
CMV: Camp O’Malley, it was the best. We got there, there was all these kids running
around and I wanted to run around and everything and -JJ:
This was by Alaska, Michigan it was called.
CMV: Yeah, by Alaska Lake and over there somewhere around over there. Yeah.
JJ:
Alaska Lake in Michigan. Okay, and 68th Street.
CMV: Yeah, there you go.
JJ:
But it’s in the country.
CMV: Oh, it’s more country than what East Coast people call this country. They call it -they call this country, but they haven’t seen the country-country that we know
that’s country.
JJ:
Right. Right. And so you went there on a weekend, like on a Friday or
something?
CMV: Yeah, it was like a weekend that we came over here or that we went over there to
[00:41:00] Camp O’Malley. It was exciting, though. We --
28
�JJ:
Were you there for a week or for a weekend?
CMV: I think I was there for a week.
JJ:
You were there for a week.
CMV: Yeah. I wanted to stay more but Mami wanted me home.
JJ:
Did a bunch of people go or I mean, what was that like?
CMV: No, from the KO Club as far as I know, the trip that I took to go over there, there
was like, probably like five of us that went in the van to go over there.
JJ:
Right, there are only so many tables, yeah.
CMV: Mm-hmm.
JJ:
But then we had some other who stayed(inaudible).
CMV: Yeah. After we were there for a week, then another group came and then it was
like that.
JJ:
Okay, so what was they -- how did it run? How did they run it?
CMV: Oh my goodness. It was so much fun. As soon as we would get up in the
morning times, of course, we’d have to fix the bed or whatnot. We would have
breakfast and they have all different types of activities planned for us. They had
the obstacle course for us, we would go swimming, hiking, all these different
types of things and that’s what excited me. [00:42:00] Oh my goodness, the
cabins. They would play practical jokes on each other. The guys, I remember
this, the guys, there was one time that the person that the camp person that was
in our room, she allowed us to go into one of the guy’s bunk cabin or whatnot.
And we searched for all their underwears and we just threw them everywhere.
We put them on the ceiling fan, on all their beds and everything like that so at the
29
�end of the day, they were searching around to see whose underwears were
whose. (laughs) But then they got back at us. We had went out to do the
obstacle course and to go swimming and stuff. And when we came back at night
time, we found our bras and our underwears just spread everywhere. And it was
fun; It was something that I would love to go back.
JJ:
Did you go canoeing or none of that stuff?
CMV: No, we didn’t get [00:43:00] to go canoeing or anything.
JJ:
But I remember there was a little river.
CMV: Yeah, there was but we didn’t get to go canoeing or anything. We did the
obstacle course and the obstacle course, they had this -- oh my goodness, what
is it called? I think it was called the high ropes. Yeah. They tried to get me on
those. I was like, “Uh-uh. I’m scared of heights, I’m not going up there. I don’t
care what you guys tell me. (laughs) I’m not going.” But it was fun, it was fun. I
had a lot of fun at Camp O’Malley.
JJ:
Were they trying -- what were they trying to teach you? Do you know or...?
CMV: They -- them there, they were trying to teach us about the different cultures. The
different cultures to interact with one another. If you guys didn’t get along, they
would try to figure out a way for you guys to get along. It was something that
taught us a lot about the different cultures and stuff like that.
JJ:
[00:44:00] Okay. Now that -- you mentioned the neighborhood and the KO Club
because it was a neighborhood group, a neighborhood after-school program.
CMV: Yes.
30
�JJ:
So it was modeled after the group the Young Lords. Do you know what
(inaudible)?
CMV: I’m going to look them up when I -- as soon as I (laughs) -JJ:
(inaudible).
CMV: I’m going to look them up. I want to learn more.
JJ:
There was a [KO Club?]. Okay, what -- any final thoughts that you want to -- that
you want to talk about especially while you’re here?
CMV: Final thoughts? Thanks to the KO Club is who I am now. Yeah, I went through a
big rebellious stage of not listening, stealing and stuff like that. But -JJ:
Stealing? Like --
CMV: Oh yeah, stealing. I -- yeah. I’m a bad girl. I’ve -- I’ve stolen from [00:45:00] my
own family members, I’ve stolen from stores and stuff like that. Got put on
probation. Yeah, it’s on my record and stuff like that but it’s things that I learned
from. It’s things that I learned from or whatnot. But the experience that I learned
at the KO Club, I wouldn’t trade that for the world.
JJ:
So what experience? I don’t understand. What did you learn there?
CMV: The experience that I learned there was being around friends and family, people
that support you, that are there for you. If you ever need to talk to somebody,
they’re there and stuff. I think the reason that I did so good in the KO Club in
school while I was in the program was because I had that support group there for
me. After I -JJ:
In fact, that’s what the KO Club was: support. A bunch of support. Because
that’s what we were trying, yeah.
31
�CMV: Yeah, it was. Yeah. It was [00:46:00] a complete support group for the
neighborhood kids. That’s why I felt so comfortable being there. Not just
because that was kids from the neighborhood or anything but because of it being
a support group.
JJ:
And those people were -- it was run by -- wasn’t it run by the members
themselves or...?
CMV: As far as I’m concerned, there were so many people there, but the only person
that I remember was you. (laughter) There was a lot of people there, a lot of -JJ:
Okay. A lot of support.
CMV: Yeah, a lot of support. If you ever needed to talk to somebody either it being
from drugs or it being from gangs or it being from stealing, robbing, and all that
different types of stuff, there was somebody there that you could actually talk to
and that was actually the good thing about it. You could talk to somebody and
you felt comfortable talking to this person because the person was so (Spanish)
that they wouldn’t -JJ:
Trust.
CMV: Trust. That they -- that whatever you tell me, I’m a tombstone. [00:47:00] I’m not
going to tell nobody. So that’s what made a lot of the kids very comfortable.
JJ:
And there were people from their own culture there also that can help you there.
Anything else that you would like to -- your mom got involved in the church,
though, does she or...? (inaudible)
CMV: Yeah, my mom’s at -- she goes to -- if I get this wrong, she’s going to kill me.
(laughter) She went to -- she goes to Manantial De Vida.
32
�JJ:
Manantial De Vida.
CMV: On Grandville and Franklin. And -JJ:
Is it a kind of homeschool church or...?
CMV: It’s a Pentecostal church. I actually grew up in the church. I left the church -JJ:
In the Pentecostal Church?
CMV: Yeah. I left the church or whatnot when I started making my own decisions and
everything. I have gone back to church but I always believe that there’s
[00:48:00] a time that He’s going to have us go to church or whatnot. But thanks
to the church, my mom’s restaurant’s been booming with the catering and the
food here and everything so it’s kind of cool.
JJ:
Okay, but did you have any children or anything like that or...?
CMV: Yes, I have one baby girl. She’s four years old.
JJ:
What’s her name?
CMV: [Kelina?].
JJ:
Kelina. (inaudible)
CMV: Yeah.
JJ:
(inaudible)
CMV: If you see this, Mami loves you. (laughter) Yeah, she -- that’s my pride and joy.
She keeps me on my toes when she’s with me. She’s going to be five now in
November 25th and yeah, that’s -- that’s my baby girl. I love that little girl.
Thanks to her, I have calmed down because before her, I was clubbing every
single weekend not caring about nothing in the world.
JJ:
What sort of clubs were your tribe?
33
�CMV: I would go to [00:49:00] to Toscano which is a Latin club and Azucar before they
put it down.
JJ:
Okay. They put it down?
CMV: Yeah. They put it down. They closed it down for -- because there was too many
fights breaking out. I guess a few people done got killed over there. So they had
to -- the city closed it down. The city wouldn’t give them back their liquor license
or their beer license so what the heck is a club without you being able to buy a
Long Island iced tea or a Corona? You know, so...
JJ:
Now, have you seen the Puerto Rican community grow here at all or how -- have
you seen their (inaudible)?
CMV: To be honest with you, the only Hispanic community that you’re ever going to find
(laughs) in Grand Rapids is actually Grandville Avenue. And it’s been growing a
lot.
JJ:
This is where the restaurant (inaudible).
CMV: Yes. It’s -- there’s actually right up the street [00:50:00] from here on Hall and
Grandville across the street from Hall Elementary School is the Hispanic Center.
And every single year, they do the march for César Chávez and it’s like in this
area, what you call Grandville Avenue, you’re going to find a whole bunch of
Hispanics. Not only Puerto Ricans but Dominicans, Cubans, Mexicans,
Guatemalans, Hondurians [sic], of all parts of Latin America. Mexico, South
America, Center, you know, the islands and stuff. You’re going to find a whole
bunch of us. It’s kind of weird that by a street, an avenue is -- that it has -- that’s
where you can find the Hispanics but that’s how it is.
34
�JJ:
Okay. The neighborhood is kind of growing you said?
CMV: It is, it’s growing a lot. Before, [00:51:00] it wasn’t booming like it is now. Before,
there wasn’t so many, how can you say, restaurants and Hispanic stores or
anything like that. And now there’s at least, let me see, one, two, three, four, five,
six, like around six or seven different restaurants just on Grandville. There’s a
huge bakery right across the street from this restaurant. There’s a Guatemalan
store right next to us, there’s one, two, three, four, five barber shops. And out of
those five, one, two, three are beauty salons, as well, mixed together with the
barber shop. And it’s something that before, there -- it wasn’t like that. And it’s
been growing a lot.
JJ:
[00:52:00] Okay. Do you have any final thoughts?
CMV: Final thoughts is if you guys want some real good food, authentic Puerto Rican
food, caterings for any kind of occasions and stuff like that, I suggest you guys
come to Rincón Criollo located at 1523 Grandville Avenue, telephone number
616-241-5591.
JJ:
All right. That’s good.
END OF VIDEO FILE
35
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ba5ddc01fb42fc0c9e0a5807d2e22bc4.mp4
1f1c89e8fef4bf4cecd1b956396ac77f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Description
An account of the resource
Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives.
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-25
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
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eng
spa
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
2012-2017
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Título
Spanish language Title entry
Charlyne Martínez-Villegas vídeo entrevista y biografía
Sujetos
Spanish language Subject terms
Young Lords (Organización)
Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos
Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales
Justicia social
Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65_Martinez-Villegas_Charlene
Title
A name given to the resource
Charlyne Martínez-Villegas video interview and transcript
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Martínez-Villegas, Charlyne
Description
An account of the resource
Charlyne Martínez-Villegas came to Grand Rapids, Michigan from New Jersey where she loved it because there were many Puerto Ricans. In Grand Rapids she was only one of a few. Another reason that she loved New Jersey is that that is where her mother and father were still married. She explains that as soon as their family arrived in Grand Rapids, her parents divorced. Her mother worked hard trying to make ends meet, preparing homemade pasteles that people would order from her ahead of time and then she would have to have them ready at all hours of the day or week. Eventually her mother’s homemade business led to opening up a small restaurant on Grandville Avenue which is always filled with patrons. In Grand Rapids, Ms. Martínez-Villegas began to get in trouble at school and in the neighborhood on the southeast side of the city, by Garfield Park. She missed her friends back in New Jersey and in school “she just did not fit in…the kids were mostly white, or black.” She explains that she could relate a little better with black children because they shared a lot of things in common. She also missed her father. The Young Lords were passing out flyers door-to-door. But they did not use the name “Young Lords” publicly. Instead they called themselves the “KO CLUB.” And they had a way with words. She explains that they had to read some pledges and phrases and everything began with KO: “Keep Open Your Hearts” or “Keep Standing Up for Yourself” or “Keep Open Your Mind.” Their meetings were held in a United Methodist Church, and the heads of the KO Club were Pastor Marge Berman, who was of Mexican descent, and Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. Members of the Club were also shown several videos about the Young Lords.The young people who participated in the Club and the small congregation were supportive. But there were a few within the church who did not like the Young Lords, who had taken over Methodist Churches in New York and Chicago. Those same individuals also did not like Pastor Berman, who was new and wanted more interaction with the community. Pastor Berman had read a newspaper article about the Young Lords while Mr. Jiménez was working as a substance abuse counselor for Project Rehab. She contacted him by phone. And when they met for the first time, Pastor Berman told him that he was sent by God. To which Mr. Jiménez replied, “Did God send any money? Because I have bills.” Mr. Jiménez did want to organize and help youth, but he wanted to do so around issues related to the Young Lords. Pastor Berman just wanted to save souls. It was a good understanding, but Mr. Jiménez would have to work incognito because using the name Young Lords name would be like saying the word “gang” in Grand Rapids. The KO Club worked well because it was not an after school program. It was an “in the neighborhood program.” It was focused on youth like Ms. Martínez-Villegas who did not want anything to do with school. And while others were saying to all youth who got in trouble, “Lock them up and throw away the key.” the KO Club had their own public slogan: “Support Youth For A Change.” Parents had to get involved, because the KO Club would visit them in their home and let them know that they were not babysitters. Once a month parents would attend amateur night where the KO CLUB members would perform for them and the rest of the community. Organizing was constantly being done door-to-door. KO CLUB was like a good gang and everyone was a member. Their colors were black and purple, but their symbol was a heart with KO in the middle and a cross above the heart. Once a year there was an annual dinner with the community where many members of the United Methodist Church attended including the Bishop. It was cost effective as it was run more like support groups divided by age: pee wee, juniors, and seniors. They would all have a chance to express themselves in a variety of ways, including discussion, with music, or in sports. The only problem came from the adults. Some wanted to make it more ecumenical to include the community at large and others wanted the organization to be more faith-based. Still others wanted control. And Pastor Berman was moved to a church in Los Angeles, California. Mr. Jiménez was left alone, fighting church elders who were paranoid that Mr. Jiménez might want to speak for the church. Mr. Jiménez understood their fears and resigned in an amicable way. The youth program continues today and it is being run more privately within the church. Ms. Martínez-Villegas says that it is what she needed then with the loss of her father, and that participating in the KO Club turned her life around.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puerto Ricans--Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-06-05
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05c6067547228cd12240f16cc52cdf63.mp4
98892ad0a07fc538da6015098b0538b0
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8d66ee7e4161921240873a1a2d5c2bb0.pdf
291163b57ba72c89251fc39f7acc9b85
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam & Afghanistan & Iraq
Baltazar Martinez
Total Time – (02:11:52)
Introduction / Basic Training – (00:00:11)
Baltazar Martinez was born in Plainview, Texas on August 8th, 1952; he lived there for about
eight years until his family moved to Bovina, Texas (00:01:03)
His father was a farmer and his mother stayed at home to work on the fields (00:01:42)
◦ Baltazar was one of the last people drafted by the draft board in 1972 (00:03:16)
◦ He is the oldest in his family and has a younger brother and and two younger sisters
(00:06:00)
◦ Baltazar was planning on going to college to play football and used that as motivation to
keep up his grades (00:07:33)
◦ A couple colleges offered him football scholarships but he ended up receiving a draft notice
and his mother took it especially hard (00:08:54)
▪ Baltazar headed to Amarillo, Texas for a physical and other check ups and eventually
wound up in the Army (00:12:00)
▪ He went to Ft. Ord in California for basic training (00:13:28)
Baltazar was brought up in a very structured family and thanks his parents for that as
it helped him get used to the way of the Army (00:14:34)
Baltazar got sent off to become a 19 Delta (Cavalry Scout) (00:17:25)
A lot of the basic skills of the Army came natural for him; his father taught him how
to shoot a rifle- everything Baltazar did in Basic Training is what he wanted to do
(00:19:53)
Four to five weeks after he arrived at Basic Training, he was congratulated by the 1st
sergeant on being of the last people to be drafted (00:22:01)
Baltazar didn't know what a 19 Delta was when it was announced that's where he
was going to be; he finally learned that he was going to be at reconnaissance school
(00:23:37)
All of his drill instructors had combat experience and his 1st sergeant had served in
Korea (00:25:27)
◦ Baltazar left Ft. Ord for Ft. Carson in Colorado to be a cavalry scout (00:26:57)
▪ He learned how to set up ambushes, explosives, booby-traps, among other
things; he already knew how to work with a map and compass (00:29:13)
▪ The training at Ft. Carson took eight weeks; from there, Baltazar got orders
to go to Vietnam (00:32:01)
▪ After Advanced Infantry Training (AIT), he earned leave to go home for
about a week; he then reported to Travis Air Force Base (AFB) and flew
from there (00:32:48)
Vietnam (00:32:29)
He jokes that his time in Vietnam was so short that he just showed up, saw the land, and was
turned around to be sent back home at the end of 1972 (00:33:00)
They flew from Anchorage, Alaska to Japan and then Japan to Saigon; he was only there for a
�couple of days (00:33:54)
Back to the United States (00:33:57)
He was then assigned to the 1st of the 10th Cavalry at Carson (00:34:20)
◦ Baltazar mentions that the military is constantly training people and that's part of the
everyday routine- a lot of weapons training (00:36:29)
◦ He liked the training because he was never bored- he was constantly doing something
(00:37:19)
◦ Baltazar describes a situation when he was on a vehicle one time that was on fire and his
sergeant told him to keep driving; eventually the situation was diffused but quite nerveracking (00:40:29)
◦ He spent about two years with the 1st of the 10th Cavalry before he got his orders that sent
him to Korea (00:41:43)
Korea (00:43:30)
Baltazar was with the 1st of the 72nd Armor and was attached to combat support (00:43:41)
He was still a Cavalry Scout but was attached to his assigned unit; he spent 13 months there
(00:44:43)
◦ After Baltazar became the rank of E5, he was told that he needed to go to NCO school and
was sent there because of his character (00:46:33)
◦ He was getting ready for an inspection when North Koreans entered into the “No Mans
Land”; gunfire was exchanged but nothing major happened (00:49:27)
◦ Baltazar says he learned to always be prepared because you never know what's going to
happen- you must have flexibility (00:49:40)
▪ With about three weeks left in his 13 month tour, Baltazar explained a story about a US
chopper getting some bullet holes from North Koreans near the exhaust (00:53:55)
His parents let him make his own decisions once Baltazar turned 18 but said they
would always give him advice for whatever he chose to do (00:55:18)
Baltazar then enlisted for another three years with the Army (00:56:09)
He and his unit provided gifts for a local orphanage while in Korea (00:58:09)
◦ Other than providing for the orphanage, Baltazar didn't really have much other
communication with the local population but remembered a few words he
learned while he was there (00:59:44)
◦ Baltazar mentions another story about a time when locals got on to a restricted
area in their mortar range and how one of his NCO's chased them off (01:03:15)
◦ The weather in Korea was brutally cold but not a lot of snow (01:04:28)
◦ Sometimes the locals seemed to know more than the soldiers about alerts and
things like that as one certain local would set up shop for the soldiers because
she had heard about an alert before they did (01:07:43)
◦ When an alert would happen, his unit would resort to fighting positions and
again, it was a secret to the US but not to the local population (01:09:07)
▪ Baltazar put Ft. Hood, Ft. Carson, and Ft. Bliss in El Paso, Texas as his
number one destination- he laughs because he got sent to Ft. Knox, Kentucky
(01:09:39)
Back to the United States (01:10:58)
Baltazar was sent to Ft. Knox, Kentucky after 13 months in Korea; he was assigned to the 1st
�
Training Brigade Unit (01:11:05)
He was still an E5 and was an Advanced Individual Training Instructor- about a year later he
was E6 (01:11:32)
◦ Baltazar was selected by a committee to go to drill sergeant school at Ft. Knox for about
five weeks (01:15:30)
◦ He received a score of 49 out of 50 and the person that graded him told him the only
mistake he made was that he wasn't perfect- Baltazar was humbled by that (01:17:57)
◦ Overall the quality of individuals of recruits were intelligent; he remembers a young man
that had a masters and was gung-ho as could be (01:21:22)
▪ The young man that Baltazar mentioned wanted to become a Chaplain and he wanted to
know why the man didn't just go through OCS and the man replied that if he didn't go
through the training, how would he know what the other soldiers are going though
(01:22:15)
▪ Baltazar did the training stint for three years which would have been around 1981 as his
enlistment was coming up (01:23:15)
The Marine Corps Years (01:24:47)
After nine years and three three-year enlistments, Baltazar decided he wanted to join the Marine
Corps (01:24:47)
His Command Sergeant Major told him he was going to make E7 soon and asked him why he
wanted to give that up and Baltazar replied that something was telling him to join the Marines
(01:28:04)
◦ He was told that he'd be brought down to Lance Corporal, an E3 position, as well as go
through boot camp and that was fine with Baltazar (01:29:42)
◦ Baltazar was brought in as the Marines were suspicious of his situation: they asked him if he
was related or knew any people in congress- they couldn't believe he wanted to come into
the Marine Corps as an E6 (01:32:08)
◦ He actually came back as a Staff NCO as an E6 in the Marine Corps at Ft. Knox (01:33:05)
▪ Some of his previous majors from the Army were sitting at the NCO bar as he walked in
(01:35:13)
▪ He was at Ft. Knox from around 1981 til 1983; he was then assigned to an inspective
duty over in Alameda, California (01:36:39)
▪ Baltazar finished a three year enlistment with the Marines and then went on Reserve
Status for three years (01:37:36)
He was thinking about himself and starting a family and that's a big reason why he
chose to not be on active duty (01:38:53)
Baltazar and his family lived in California from 1983/84 til almost 2000 (01:41:35)
Him and his family ended up moving to Marshall, Michigan in 2000 (01:43:28)
National Guard Duty (01:45:50)
In 2007, Baltazar joined the National Guard after his daughter entered college (01:45:50)
After the E6 and E5 slots were filled, he decided that he didn't need the rank in order to lead as
part of the National Guard (01:50:23)
◦ In 2010, Baltazar was deployed to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan for six months (01:52:50)
◦ The deployment was an individual deployment because of Baltazar's expertise in weaponry
and prior combat experience (01:53:38)
▪ Kuwait was his main base and first flew out to Afghanistan; he was accountable for all
�▪
the heavy machinery (01:54:33)
He went back and forth from Kuwait to Afghanistan twice and would be gone from ten
days to 14 days at a time (01:57:19)
Baltazar was accounting for equipment in Iraq as the United States started to
withdraw troops as this made his job quite critical (02:00:00)
◦ He mentions that while he was in Iraq it seemed like the Insurgents were just
waiting for the US troops to get out (02:04:26)
Back to the United States (02:06:00)
Baltazar returned from Iraq in 2011 and wanted to return in 2012 but his aged barred him from
his deployment (02:07:27)
Baltazar came home to a loving family in 1972 when he got back from Vietnam and came back
from Iraq to a loving family in 2011 and that's what he believes keeps him grounded and sane
(02:10:05)
He feels like he can still perform for the military and be able to provide experience for young
men and women; to pass the torch on to the younger generation is one of his goals (02:11:17)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MartinezB1571V
Title
A name given to the resource
Martinez, Baltazar (Interview outline and video), 2014
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Martinez, Baltazar
Description
An account of the resource
Baltazar Martinez was born in Plainview, Texas, in 1952. He was one of the last people to be drafted into the Army in 1972. He trained as an armored cavalryman and was deployed to Vietnam toward the end of the year, but stayed only a few days before being sent home. He re-enlisted twice, and served in Korea and in different bases in the US until 1981. He subsequently served in the Marine Corps for three years, and then later joined the Army National Guard, and deployed to Kuwait, and Iraq in 2010. He currently serves with the 507th Engineer Battalion, but did not deploy with them to Afghanistan in 2011 due to his age.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
McGregor, Michael (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
United States. Marine Corps
United States. National Guard
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-03-08
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
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Text
Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Guillermo Martínez
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 3/2/2012
Biography and Description
English
Guillermo Martínez was born in Puerto Rico. In the 1950s he moved to Chicago, settling in the most
northern and western edge of Lincoln Park, near Diversey Parkway and Ashland Avenue. He is a
homeowner and because he was not close to the lake, the area where he lived was not affected by high
taxes and building inspectors until later than other areas of Lincoln Park. Mr. Martínez describes his
memories of Lincoln Park, including the Puerto Rican youth groups of the area, local taverns, and social
clubs. He also discusses his membership in the Hermanos de Dios or Brothers of God and his desire to
eventually sell his home and move back to Puerto Rico to retire.
Even within the Puerto Rican community of Lincoln Park, there was debate about the effects of urban
renewal. Mr. Martínez provides insight into these differing perspectives, including his belief that the
Puerto Rican community of Lincoln Park was not forced out, but moved by choice. As someone who
benefitted financially by having the neighborhood transition raise his property value, he describes what
he sees as the positive aspects of urban renewal and its long-term effects on Lincoln Park and Chicago.
�Spanish
Guillermo Martínez nació en Puerto Rico. En los 1950s se mudó a chicago, en la parte más norte y oeste
de Lincoln Park, cerca de Diversary Parkway y Ashland Avenue. Dueño de su propia casa y porque no
vive cerca del lago, su vecindario no fue afectado por el aumento de impuestos y inspectores de
construcción hasta más tarde que muchos de los otras partes de Lincoln Park. Señor Martínez describe
sus memorias de Lincoln Park, incluyendo la jóvenes puertorriqueños en la aria, los tabernas, y grupos
sociales. También habla sobre sus membrecía en los Hermanos De Dios y su deseo de vender su casa y
retirarse a Puerto Rico.
Hasta por dentro de la comunidad Puertorriqueña de Lincoln Park, había discusiones de los efectos de la
nueva construcción. Señor Martínez suministra una idea de las diferentes perspectivas en la comunidad
Puertorriqueña de Lincoln Park que él piensa que no fueron eliminado, sino hicieron la decisión de
cambiarlas. Como alguien quien beneficio financiamiento por cambio del vecindario, el describe los
cambios positivos que vio por la reconstrucción y los efectos de una duración larga tiene en Lincoln Park
y Chicago.
�Transcript
JOSE JIMENEZ:
Okay, if you can tell me what your name is and how you got here.
GUILLERMO MARTINEZ: Oh, mi nombre es Guillermo Martinez. (Spanish) [00:00:09 00:00:24]
JJ:
When you came here?
GM:
Yeah, when I came here. (laughs)
JJ:
No, es tamb-- it doesn’t matter. Nineteen years old?
GM:
I barely was 19 years old when I came.
JJ:
When you arrived, okay?
GM:
Yeah, when I came here.
JJ:
So you grew up in Puerto Rico, then?
GM:
I was born in Puerto Rico.
JJ:
In what town?
GM:
Arecibo, Puerto Rico. Barrio Sabana Hoyos.
JJ:
Barrio Sabana Hoyos, okay. And did you go -- so you went to grammar school
there?
GM:
Yes, I went to grammar schools over in Puerto Rico.
JJ:
Until eighth grade?
GM:
That’s all I had, grammar school.
JJ:
Until the eighth grade, though?
GM:
Yes.
1
�JJ:
So a lot of people don’t understand -- I mean, what was it [00:01:00] like going to
school there, in Puerto Rico? What school did you go to?
GM:
What was the question again?
JJ:
What school did you go to and what was it like? What was it like?
GM:
Barrio Sabana Hoyos, Segunda Unidad, Barrio Sabana Hoyos.
JJ:
(Spanish) [00:01:14] And how do you describe the school? What was school
like?
GM:
Well, they had grades from first grade to first year high. That’s what they -- then
from there you go to the high school in Arecibo. Then, so they had from first to
eighth grade.
JJ:
Okay, I mean, did you have to wear uniforms or anything?
GM:
No, not exactly. I didn’t -- I wear my own clothes and I had to walk about five,
maybe five, eight miles to get to school.
JJ:
Oh, you had to walk? No buses?
GM:
Walk. Whenever I got to ride by a horse or -- there goes -- a car goes by, a truck
load of sugar cane, [00:02:00] I just hang on to it until I get to school.
JJ:
So there was sugar cane in the area?
GM:
Yes, there was all sugar cane.
JJ:
So this was in the country?
GM:
Yeah, I lived way out.
JJ:
Way out in the country?
GM:
Yeah, way out.
JJ:
And so you would -- sometimes you would hit your ride on a sugar cane --
2
�GM:
Yes. Hanging on a piece of sugar cane.
JJ:
Hanging by sugar cane, but with a horse? Was the horse driving it or a car?
GM:
No, a truck.
JJ:
A truck?
GM:
Yeah. Semi. Semi.
JJ:
Semi, okay, full of sugar cane. So that means you went to a different barrio to
the school, right?
GM:
Well, if Arecibo -- Barrio Sabana Hoyos, Arecibo, it’s a big barrio.
JJ:
It’s a big barrio?
GM:
I think it’s one of the biggest in the island.
JJ:
Was it?
GM:
Of the town of Arecibo, but in the island too. [00:03:00] So it was quite a way
from where I was living, Barrio Jobales. It’s a little town, a little barrio. Then I go
to Sabana Hoyos, which, it was -- that’s where you had highway number two.
JJ:
Highway number two? That’s the (inaudible)?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
And so you’re in a different neighborhood, different barrio.
GM:
Yes.
JJ:
Did that create any problems with the other kids?
GM:
Kids’ problems, that always happened. When I left my town, my barrio, I met
other kids. And yes, there was gangs there. They hide screwdrivers or ice pick
in boxes of -- candy boxes, like [Coconettos?], (laughs) and then they start
3
�problems. And then [00:04:00] they hide those ice picks in there, and we had to
defend ourselves too.
JJ:
When you say we, you mean other people from where you were?
GM:
Me and my cousins and all those that come from the little barrio, who were about
six or eight. So they don’t like us because they didn’t see us. I guess they were
just trying to be friendly, or see how we react by seeing other kids. So you had to
fight.
JJ:
So your family, what did they do? Did they work on the sugar cane, or what did
they -- what kind of work did they do?
GM:
My father had a farm, 50 acres of, you know, rocky land, but we had bananas
and yautias. And, you know, we grow all the stuff and we sell it to -- in town,
that’s how we -- [00:05:00] but most of the stuff that we consume in the house
were grown in the farm. And we raised animals like pigs and goats and
chickens. And all that, that’s -- until I got 18 years old.
JJ:
So the chickens were just to eat, they weren’t to sell. You weren’t selling those.
GM:
No, were for consuming.
JJ:
Consuming. And ate the eggs and stuff like that. But the vegetables and fruits
you took to the town?
GM:
Yeah, we sell bananas, platanos, guineo, yautia, calabaza.
JJ:
And so did you have to work too, in the farm? Did you work with your --?
GM:
Of course. After school, I had to go feed the horses, las yeguitas. We had to
feed the horses and also we had -- we didn’t have no [00:06:00] running water by
4
�the house, we had to go get it at the -- how do you call it, at the spring to bring
the water so we could drink and cook.
JJ:
So no pipes, just spring?
GM:
Right. You just get it.
JJ:
Get it right from the ground and that’s the water you drink.
GM:
Yeah, carry it. Uh-huh.
JJ:
Okay. (Spanish) [00:06:20]
GM:
(Spanish) [00:06:21] (laughs)
JJ:
Okay. So how many brothers and sisters?
GM:
Well, actually, my mom, she had about -- she lost five, miscarriage, and ten of us
survived. Ten of us.
JJ:
So there were --
GM:
Four sisters and six brothers.
JJ:
Four sisters and six brothers. Okay, were you the oldest?
GM:
Well, actually, I think that was my sister, which was -- [00:07:00] [Leonora?] was
the first one, and my brother, Luis, second one. In between that, Luis and I, I
think two kids died. I’m supposed to be about the fifth child.
JJ:
Okay.
GM:
Now I’m the oldest.
JJ:
Now, I’ve heard a lot about these miscarriages. Why were -- what was the
reason why there were miscarriages?
GM:
Well, you know, them days, the women didn’t go to doctor.
JJ:
To the doctor, right. Prenatal --
5
�GM:
You just get pregnant and have the baby.
JJ:
At the house they would have it?
GM:
At the house. And all the kids were born by a comadrona. She’s a midwife.
JJ:
A midwife? Okay.
GM:
Which was my mother’s sister.
JJ:
Okay. Did they train for that?
GM:
Yeah, they do have training. They do --
JJ:
I mean, at that time, did they have training?
GM:
Yeah, the clinica. [00:08:00]
JJ:
La clinica would train them how to do it? And so they would get paid to do that?
GM:
They have to go once a month, and they have more like a -- what they call that?
A suitcase or whatever, a bag. And they supply them with all the stuff that they
need.
JJ:
Oh, supplies.
GM:
Uh-huh. But they are up to date.
JJ:
So then at that time they were trained?
GM:
At that time, yeah.
JJ:
Because they didn’t have clinics in the country?
GM:
No.
JJ:
No hospital, no clinic?
GM:
No, not for -- you had to go to the hospital. And then days, by the time you bring
the woman to the hospital, [it might have been horses,] I mean, she’s going to
have the baby half the way. (laughs)
6
�JJ:
Right, right, right.
GM:
You’re talking about thirty-something --
JJ:
So were you born like that?
GM:
I was born in 1934.
JJ:
Comadrona?
GM:
Yeah, my aunt.
JJ:
It was your aunt, okay.
GM:
Yeah, all of us.
JJ:
Okay. Now, what church? Did you go to church in that area, [00:09:00] or no?
GM:
My parents were -- they weren’t Catholic.
JJ:
They were not. Okay.
GM:
No. But --
JJ:
What religion were they?
GM:
-- we had the grace to be -- they baptized in the Catholic Church.
JJ:
So they baptized you, but they were not Catholic.
GM:
Yeah, all of us. But they weren’t Catholic.
JJ:
But why did they baptize you?
GM:
What was that?
JJ:
If they were not Catholic, why did you get baptized?
GM:
Why did they baptize us in the Catholic Church? They’re not around to ask them
that question. (laughs)
JJ:
Oh, they’re not -- okay.
7
�GM:
I never did -- you know, we never asked them why were that way. Why did they
do. But that’s what they practiced.
JJ:
That was the practice.
GM:
Even though if they were Catholic, you know, they wouldn’t have been able to go
to church because -- so far.
JJ:
Oh, the church was far?
GM:
Oh, yeah. The first one was Sabana Hoyos.
JJ:
In Sabana Hoyos, [00:10:00] okay.
GM:
And sometimes the priest was not there. Yeah.
JJ:
Were there Spanish priests at that time?
GM:
Yeah. Spaniards.
JJ:
Spaniard, but not Puerto Rican.
GM:
If they were, I wouldn’t know. I mean, you’re talking about a long time ago.
JJ:
What year are we talking?
GM:
But you know --
JJ:
What year are we talking?
GM:
What was that?
JJ:
About what year was this? When you were baptized?
GM:
I was baptized -- it’s in the record in the church. I found out of the (inaudible). I
was a year old.
JJ:
Oh, you were a year old?
GM:
They say that I was a year old.
JJ:
Do you know what year?
8
�GM:
Well, I was born in ’34, it would be ’35.
JJ:
1935. Okay. ’34, ’35. That’s -- so you knew what the ’40s and -- what were the
’40s like in Puerto Rico? Because a lot of people came in ’45, after ’45, but what
were the ’40s like? [00:11:00]
GM:
During the war, I was reading a book on that, [manochevos?]. During the war,
the opening of the war in Germany, so that’s -- things started getting better, the
economy, the island started getting better. And there was money, but there was
no food. Because all the boat, the barge, you know, the ships were sunk. They
never got there.
JJ:
Oh, you mean during the war you were sinking ships, so the food wasn’t getting
to Puerto Rico?
GM:
What was that?
JJ:
During the war, they were sinking --
GM:
Yeah, so the food don’t get there.
JJ:
Okay, all right.
GM:
So people have the money but there’s no food. I mean, you’re lucky if you had
the farm; always grow something.
JJ:
Was there television and radio and all that in Puerto Rico?
GM:
Well, you know, TV came, television came in [00:12:00] 1948.
JJ:
Oh, ’48?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So what did you do before that?
GM:
For entertainment?
9
�JJ:
Yeah.
GM:
(laughs) Just invent your own, you know, with the family, with the kids, and visit
family.
JJ:
Okay, visiting. No music or anything?
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
Oh, the radio was working. Did you have a radio?
GM:
The radio -- we had battery. It was battery operated. No electricity at that time.
JJ:
No electricity at that time. Okay. And no running water?
GM:
Not in my --
JJ:
No water, no electricity?
GM:
No, we had no running water.
JJ:
So when it was dark, it was dark.
GM:
Exactly. It was the moon.
JJ:
The moon?
GM:
Yeah. (laughs) I have to remember those days. You know, they were good
days.
JJ:
They were good days?
GM:
We were raised in a good family.
JJ:
Everybody went to sleep [00:13:00] early though, right?
GM:
Oh, you hit the sack early.
JJ:
Okay. So now -- you came here, you said, in 1953? And was there anyone else
from your family here before you?
GM:
Yes, uncle. An uncle.
10
�JJ:
And when did he come?
GM:
I think he came -- it was in ’49, something like that.
JJ:
1949?
GM:
Yeah, he came about ’48, ’4. It was already three or four years over here.
JJ:
Did he live here or did he live in another part?
GM:
He lived right where DePaul is right now. 1136 -- no, 2337 Seminary.
JJ:
Really? In 1949?
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
In 1949?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
He was living in Lincoln Park in 1949.
GM:
He was, Lincoln Park.
JJ:
And were there other Puerto Ricans at that time in Lincoln Park? [00:14:00]
GM:
I didn’t see too many of them, which is hardly anybody there. They were
Mexicans.
JJ:
Okay, Mexicans, okay.
GM:
As a matter of fact, the building where he lived, because he lived in the
basement, it was owned by a Mexican family.
JJ:
Okay. And this was in 1949?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Okay. You came and -- your reason for coming, why did you come?
GM:
The reason why I wanted to be -- I came here --
JJ:
You came when you were 19, right?
11
�GM:
Yeah, 19.
JJ:
So why did you come? Why did you come here?
GM:
Oh, looking for a better life. I was in San Juan, I was working at the airport, not
the one we got now, the other one.
JJ:
Okay, another one, okay.
GM:
What was the other one called? Isla Verde.
JJ:
Isla Verde, okay.
GM:
And I see all the [01:15:00] airplanes leave every night. I was right at the airport.
I said, I’m going to give it a try. So I wrote my uncle, and he said, “Okay.” He
said, “Don’t come in January because there’s no jobs.” So then I waited to July.
I think it was July 30, 1953, and I flew here. And then he found me -- I went to
look for a job making candy in a factory right here in the neighborhood, which
now is gone.
JJ:
What’s the name of it?
GM:
Peerless Confection Company.
JJ:
Peerless Confection Company?
GM:
Peerless. And then --
JJ:
Did he work there? Was he working there?
GM:
No, but --
JJ:
Where did he work? Where did he work?
GM:
My uncle?
JJ:
Yeah.
12
�GM:
By then, he worked in a factory. He was more kind of a [00:16:00] supervisor
already. And they called it [super vet?]
JJ:
Super vet?
GM:
Yeah. I think they were making -- I don’t know what kind of machine. It was not
food. So he took me there. And two weeks later, I came to (inaudible) in August
12, 1953. I remember that. I started a job.
JJ:
Okay, now you came when you were 19 years old, a teenager.
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
So did you have a girlfriend in Puerto Rico that you left behind or no?
GM:
No.
JJ:
No, you just came. You weren’t. (Spanish) [00:16:36].
GM:
(Spanish) [00:16:37].
JJ:
Okay, okay. So you didn’t have to worry about --
GM:
No.
JJ:
You just figured, I’m gonna just go and --
GM:
Just look for a --
JJ:
-- an adventure, like adventure?
GM:
Uh-huh.
JJ:
Aventurero?
GM:
Aventurero.
JJ:
Okay. And so you started working at --
GM:
At Peerless Confection.
JJ:
Peerless Confection, and where did you live at?
13
�GM:
Where did I live at? [00:17:00] 918 West Fullerton, right by the El.
JJ:
Right by the El, Fullerton and Sheffield.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Right over by DePaul? Right over there?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Okay, okay. And this was 1953?
GM:
1953.
JJ:
And were there any Puerto Ricans living there, in that area?
GM:
Yeah, there were a few there, lived right across the street. From San Lorenzo.
JJ:
From San Lorenzo?
GM:
I met them and other people -- which, you know, we didn’t -- we didn’t have a
club, and say, you see them, you know -- of Puerto Ricans, some are dark, some
are light. Look at you, you’ve got blue eyes. So you don’t know if they’re Puerto
Rican or they were not. So, but then I knew about five or ten of them. Over in
Fullerton area.
JJ:
[00:18:00] And did they --and you hung around together?
GM:
No.
JJ:
You just kind of knew each other.
GM:
No, you were just -- on the weekends, we -- sometimes we get together, but not
all the time. Most of the time I was with my family, visiting family, my uncle.
JJ:
But in the weekends you got together? Where did you go?
GM:
I’d go to the Biograph Theater.
JJ:
Oh, to the Biograph Theater you used to go? In 1953?
14
�GM:
Yeah, on [the crest?]. Where I crossed.
JJ:
Right across the street?
GM:
Across the street from the Biograph.
JJ:
And all you guys went over there, all the few Puerto Ricans went over there?
GM:
No, I was very independent.
JJ:
Oh, you were very independent, okay.
GM:
Very independent.
JJ:
So you just saw them in the neighborhood and said hello.
GM:
Yeah, some of them I’d talk, but never --
JJ:
Were they your age?
GM:
Sometimes we go to their apartment and have a couple of beers, play some
(inaudible), you know, music.
JJ:
What kind of music?
GM:
Puerto Rican music.
JJ:
But what kind, what kind? Who were the singers, do you remember? [00:19:00]
GM:
Um, Felipe Rodriguez?
JJ:
Felipe Rodriguez. (Spanish) [00:19:05]?
GM:
Oh, [La última copa?]. (laughter)
JJ:
Oh, [La última copa?] (Spanish) [00:19:10]. So [La última copa?] was a good
one. But Felipe Rodriguez, any other singers at that time?
GM:
Popular singers?
JJ:
I mean, that you got, that you --
15
�GM:
Oh, yeah, I think [Roberto Salaman?], (Spanish) [00:19:27] [Savio?], (Spanish)
[00:19:30] [Cajito Delares?], (Spanish) [00:19:36].
JJ:
Cajito Delares, so you like [majibara?], musica jibara?
GM:
(Spanish) [00:19:41]. As a matter of fact, I always listen to country music.
JJ:
From Puerto Rico?
GM:
Yeah, because I hang around here. I used to hang around more with [00:20:00]
hillbillies. (laughs)
JJ:
Oh, okay.
GM:
Southerners.
JJ:
No, no, there’s always Southerners --
GM:
Yeah. I used to hang around. I hung around -- before I got here, I hung around
with them.
JJ:
So you like hillbilly music, too, from here?
GM:
Because the country music, it reminds you of the --
JJ:
Of country music in Puerto Rico?
GM:
Yeah. It got the same, you know --
JJ:
The same beats --
GM:
Mountain sound.
JJ:
Mountain sound.
GM:
Yeah. So I used to like, I still like country music. My favorite, my favorite was
Charlie Price.
JJ:
Okay, Charlie Price. Okay. Charlie Price.
GM:
Yeah. To name a few, Eddie Arnold.
16
�JJ:
Okay, so you really were into it, into country music. Because it reminds you of
the country in Puerto Rico, and your family was from the country.
GM:
Yeah. You want to feel at home. And that’s how you pass the time. Besides
that, you just work. Get up early in the morning, and twelve o’clock [00:21:00]
come home and have something to eat.
JJ:
So you get up in the morning and you listen to the radio to wake you up.
GM:
In the morning?
JJ:
Or no?
GM:
No.
JJ:
How did you wake up?
GM:
I just, I get up a half hour before and I walk from, from the El down here to
Lakewood. That’s what the factory was.
JJ:
Okay, and you just walked there?
GM:
Not even 10 minutes walk.
JJ:
But you’d take the El and then just walk over here?
GM:
No, just walk.
JJ:
Just walk from Fullerton?
GM:
Yeah, walk from --
JJ:
Fullerton, you were at Fullerton and --
GM:
Yeah, Fullerton and Sheffield.
JJ:
Okay, so not that far, so you’d just walk. So a good walk, is that right.
GM:
Then, until then; later on I got a car, and --
JJ:
So were there more Puerto Ricans working in the candy factory there?
17
�GM:
Yes, I started there when I was 19.
JJ:
But there were more more Puerto Ricans working there?
GM:
Well, I guess, yeah, there were a few, but if I can remember, it -- were about 40
[00:22:00] of my family worked there.
JJ:
How many?
GM:
About 40 of them.
JJ:
Forty?
GM:
Yeah, they -- I’ll tell you, one time they were passing around the checks:
“Martinez, Martinez, Martinez, Martinez,” the guy said, “You might as well take
the rest of them.” (laughter)
JJ:
Those were your family that worked there.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So did they all come from Puerto Rico together?
GM:
Well, you know.
JJ:
Right after each other, one right --
GM:
Yeah. They’d arrive looking for a job, and take him there.
JJ:
Is that the way people used to come? I mean, they come with their whole family?
GM:
Well, if they are single, they come single. Sometimes they come, they get
married here.
JJ:
But, I mean, other relatives were --
GM:
And they make family bigger. (laughs)
JJ:
But the relatives would follow them?
GM:
Oh, yeah, they’d bring their brothers and sisters.
18
�JJ:
And then helped set them up and all that?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Okay. Okay. So now you’re here and you’re a teenager, did you get in any
[00:23:00] problems? You know, teenagers get in trouble.
GM:
No.
JJ:
Not trouble, just a working person.
GM:
No-trouble lifestyle.
JJ:
Was there a lot of trouble?
GM:
(inaudible)
JJ:
No, no, that’s good. I mean, would anybody else get in trouble? Any of your
friends that you saw.
GM:
No, no. But I know, I knew what was all going around.
JJ:
What was going around, what was going around. So you knew what was going
around, but you didn’t get in trouble?
GM:
No.
JJ:
So what was going around?
GM:
Oh, gangs.
JJ:
Puerto Rican gangs, or --?
GM:
Puerto Rican gangs, yeah.
JJ:
What sort of gangs, do you remember them?
GM:
It really, I -- name some of them?
JJ:
Yeah, did you know any of the names or --?
GM:
Yeah, I can remember the Young Lords.
19
�JJ:
This is when they were a gang.
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
This is when they were a gang, you remember. Because, you know, the Young
Lords became political later, but this was when they were a gang.
GM:
Uh-huh. And the Black Eagles --
JJ:
The Black Eagles?
GM:
The Black Eagles, the [Ambrose?].
JJ:
The Ambrose, okay. [00:24:00]
GM:
I’d see other sides, the (inaudible), but I think they’re from the South Side.
JJ:
Yeah, on the South Side. Yeah. But you --
GM:
And they -- they did some damage to my property. (laughs)
JJ:
Oh, they did damage to your property.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So you didn’t like them. (laughter) You didn’t like them.
GM:
Yeah, no, I usually have --
JJ:
I’m not defending them, I’m not defending them.
GM:
I own a house here. And they’ll screw it up, break the windows. But you know.
JJ:
But I mean, this -- because I’m talking back when you were younger and then.
So when you were 19 and that, all you did was just work, you didn’t --
GM:
Yeah, work.
JJ:
Go to the Biograph --
GM:
Right, and send some money to my parents.
JJ:
-- have a couple beers, and then send some money.
20
�GM:
I sent some of money to my parents so he could finish the house back in Puerto
Rico. Because he had all these -- I mean, eight kids were underage when I
came here. Because right now I’m 77. And the [00:25:00] youngest, I think, is
60, so I was 16 years older than the youngest.
JJ:
So is that what people did, they helped their mother and father to make a house
for the rest of the family?
GM:
Yeah, my parents were there.
JJ:
So you work --
GM:
I provide.
JJ:
-- and you provide some money to help the house because that was going to be
for your family.
GM:
Exactly.
JJ:
And that’s what everybody did at that time?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Most other families did the same thing.
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Okay. Now, you said they were Protestant. Your family was Protestant, but here
you became Catholic?
GM:
Well, I didn’t know what they -- they were, they read a book they call La
Conexion. And I think it’s more like -- what is that? I don’t -- [00:26:00]
Espiritistas?
JJ:
Oh, Espiritistas? Oh, okay. So, (Spanish) [00:26:02].
GM:
Seemed to be, yeah.
21
�JJ:
And that’s part of the -- and it’s called Conexion?
GM:
That’s -- I think that’s the book they have. Kind of a -- Catholics, they have the
Bible.
JJ:
(Spanish) [00:26:18] It’s part of the culture.
GM:
Sí.
JJ:
So it’s not really a religion, it’s more --
GM:
Like a cult.
JJ:
Like a cult, something like that.
GM:
Yeah. So did they try to do, like, promises and --
GM:
They never did teach us anything.
JJ:
They didn’t teach you anything?
GM:
Never, never, never tell us. Everything was quiet. They did what they did, just
my father and my mother. And us, we’re baptized.
JJ:
You guys were Catholic, but they --
GM:
Yeah. As we --
JJ:
And your parents were Espiritista, both of them?
GM:
Yeah. (Spanish) [00:26:52]
JJ:
Both your father and mother?
GM:
Hmm?
JJ:
Both your father and mother were spiritual?
GM:
Yeah, but they used to sit together and read [00:27:00] the thing.
JJ:
Did people used to come to get prayers read for them?
GM:
Yeah, they have --
22
�JJ:
I mean, my mother believed in the same thing, similar.
GM:
Yeah, group of the spirit, they get together, and they believe that the spirit comes
to them, take --
JJ:
And takes control of them.
GM:
Speaks through them. Yeah.
JJ:
And speak to them, okay.
GM:
Yeah, yeah.
JJ:
(inaudible)
GM:
Mm-hmm. But my father never had them in our house. They’d go somebody,
someplace else.
JJ:
Oh, they went somewhere else.
GM:
Yeah. So we never were -- really were exposed to that environment.
JJ:
And how did you -- you know, you became a Catholic later.
GM:
Here in Chicago. Since I already was baptized --
JJ:
So how did you feel about the spiritualists?
GM:
About Catholic?
JJ:
About Espiritista, how did you feel?
GM:
Oh!
JJ:
Because you’re Catholic.
GM:
Well, I am a [00:28:00] person that -- respect all faith.
JJ:
Oh, okay. Okay.
23
�GM:
I respect all faith, because who am I to say you are on the wrong track? So I
say, if you believe in it, you stick with it. If you need any advice or something, I’ll
give it to you. But I’m only going to give it to you if you, you know, ask for it.
JJ:
Yeah. But you respect it because there’s a lot of people that practice that, right?
GM:
No, the reason is, I’d say, I respect all faith.
JJ:
I understand, but there’s a lot of -- a lot of Puerto Ricans believe in spiritualism.
GM:
I think so. I think so.
JJ:
Or no, I don’t know.
GM:
Right now on the island is lot of Protestants.
JJ:
A lot of Protestants?
GM:
A great majority of --
JJ:
But what about, not Protestant, but spiritual, Espiritista? [00:29:00]
GM:
Oh, the Espiritista?
JJ:
Mucho Espiritista?
GM:
I don’t know since I’ve been gone for so long, you know?
JJ:
But (Spanish) [00:29:09]?
GM:
But they did, among --
JJ:
At that time, were there some?
GM:
At that time, yeah.
JJ:
So a lot of people lived. And that comes more like from the Indian, do you think
so? Or no, or from the African?
GM:
I read someplace that Santeria, Espiritista, they’re since 1898, when the United
States took over Puerto Rico. So before that the Spaniards had the priests,
24
�Spanish priests over there. And they were more like owners. They had the
properties and everything. And the United States stopped that. The United
States stopped that. And then they didn’t like it. So they went back to Spain.
[00:30:00] So then all this little group started wanting to keep the faith with
whatever they had. They got all different kinds of cults and -JJ:
All different cults.
GM:
But the Spanish brought the Catholics in Puerto Rico.
JJ:
Okay, but -- because the Spanish brought the Catholicism.
GM:
Yeah. But the United States came, they don’t like the way it was operated, you
know. Owned.
JJ:
The priests were owning it.
GM:
They broke all that up.
JJ:
They broke all that up because the priests were owning it.
GM:
That’s not allowed.
JJ:
So the spiritualists were against the priests? No?
GM:
Espiritismo?
JJ:
I mean, it was, like, against the Catholic Church, no? Or no?
GM:
You find people that, they sympathize with the Catholic.
JJ:
Oh, they sympathize?
GM:
Or they would say anything. They’re not -- I don’t think they are bothering
anybody. [00:31:00]
JJ:
They don’t bother anybody.
GM:
Yeah.
25
�JJ:
Okay, so, you were more Catholic. You became Catholic here. About what year
was that?
GM:
Before-- ’54.
JJ:
Fifty-four, as soon as you got here. And how did that happen?
GM:
Well, my brother-in-law and I, we worked together. He’s the brother of my wife.
He passed away. We worked -- I told him, “Hey, let’s go. Let’s go take dancing
lessons.” So I cut out a piece of paper, and it was [that was his group?]
downtown. They teach salsa and cha-cha, you know, that stuff.
JJ:
[00:32:00] In 1954?
GM:
In ’54.
JJ:
Downtown? Okay.
GM:
So that was a Cuban school. So we took a few lessons, and then we usually
stopped at State and Chicago avenue. And we got off there because he lived
around there. And I stayed a while, then I’d go back up to Fullerton.
JJ:
They used to call there ‘La Clark.’ Or ‘la Clark’-- or, yeah.
GM:
Yeah, Clark. Clark State. And then there was a church right there, Holy Name
Cathedral.
JJ:
Holy Name Cathedral, yeah.
GM:
And they said, “Hey, there is a social hour today. I think --” He said, “I think they
dance over there.”
JJ:
So there were Puerto Ricans at Holy Name Cathedral?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
In 1954?
26
�GM:
In the basement.
JJ:
In 1954, in the basement?
GM:
Nineteen fifty-four, that’s correct. That’s where they formed the Caballeros de
San Juan Numero Dos.
JJ:
Numero dos was at Holy Name Cathedral?
GM:
Mm-hmm. And I went in there and there was no dancing.
JJ:
[00:33:00] Okay, so numero uno was on 63rd Street.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
And then numero dos was Holy Name Cathedral. And numero tres was St.
Michael’s.
GM:
St. Michael, yeah.
JJ:
And was there one up here? (Spanish) [00:33:13]
GM:
Numero tres was St. Michael, yeah. I used to go there for dancing, too.
JJ:
Okay, but let’s -- Holy Name Cathedral.
GM:
Numero dos.
JJ:
So you went to that social hour in the basement. Okay.
GM:
Yeah. And from there on, and the guys say, “Hey, how ’bout --”
JJ:
Who was there when you went in there? Can you describe that?
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
When you went into the dance, who was -- were there a lot of Puerto Ricans
there?
GM:
There was no dance at all. I thought it was dancing, but they were just teaching
Bible classes and gathering. Then they invited us.
27
�JJ:
But were there Spanish people there?
GM:
Yeah, all Puerto Ricans.
JJ:
All Puerto Ricans?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Okay, at that time. Were they from that neighborhood, or where? Did they live in
that area?
GM:
As I know, [00:34:00] most of them from that area, but I guess they were coming
from -- because they had, here they had two separate -- they had San -- the host
street was the church San Francisco, St. Francis. They were mostly Mexicans.
JJ:
Francis on the South -- on 12th Street and Halsted.
GM:
Yeah. Right. And we concentrate on the North Side, on the Holy Name
Cathedral.
JJ:
Okay, so those were the two churches at that time.
GM:
Uh-huh.
JJ:
Yeah, I remember my mother used to go there.
GM:
Then we had St. Joseph, which was on Orleans.
JJ:
So those were two Spanish Masses?
GM:
Uh-huh.
JJ:
So there was one Spanish Mass at St. Francis.
GM:
At that time.
JJ:
And then one Spanish Mass at Holy Name Cathedral. Did Holy Name Cathedral
have a Spanish Mass?
GM:
In the basement.
28
�JJ:
In the basement, they didn’t have it in the big church?
GM:
Oh, no. They don’t nobody up there.
JJ:
What do you mean?
GM:
Oh, we had -- well, keep in with the Caballero de San Juan. [00:35:00]
JJ:
No, but I mean, can you explain? They didn’t want anybody in the big church?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Who didn’t want?
GM:
That’s why the Puerto Ricans, they formed that Caballeros de San Juan. And
from there on, Dos Hermanos. That’s still going.
JJ:
I mean, they didn’t want people in there, in the Holy Name Cathedral in the big
church. I’m not trying to -- or the Puerto Ricans wanted their own church, how
was it?
GM:
No, they don’t want us upstairs.
JJ:
Did they say that?
GM:
In the basement.
JJ:
They said that.
GM:
They had a fight to it. They had to pay ten cents a seat, if you wanted a seat.
JJ:
Oh, so there was a -- so a little discrimination there.
GM:
A little? A big one.
JJ:
A big one?
GM:
No, we’ve been coming a long way.
JJ:
Okay. So now the Puerto Ricans are downstairs and they’re organizing.
GM:
Uh-huh. Then later on --
29
�JJ:
And the Caballeros de San Juan -- well, what sort of -- what kind of things did the
Caballeros do? At St. An -- [00:36:00]
GM:
What did they do, their activities?
JJ:
At Holy Name, at Holy Name.
GM:
Well, they hold meetings every Sunday after Mass, a committee to organize
themselves.
JJ:
Do you remember some of the leaders at that time?
GM:
I know one of them was [Cheveres?] Miguel Cheveres.
JJ:
At Holy Name?
GM:
Uh-huh. No, Miguel Cheveres was -- no.
JJ:
At St. Michael’s, St. Michael’s.
GM:
St. Michael’s.
JJ:
Yeah, okay. And Cheveres and -- what was the other one -- [Rivera?],
(inaudible). (Spanish) [00:36:39] And Jesus Rodriguez, what was he?
GM:
Jesus Rodriguez, like I say, he was -- he came from Los Hermanos Cheos.
JJ:
In Puerto Rico?
GM:
In Puerto Rico. And then he was at St. Michael’s. He held -- [00:37:00] a good
preacher, he held retreats in Villamaria.
JJ:
Villamaria was where?
GM:
That was in Wisconsin.
JJ:
In Wisconsin? Okay.
GM:
And then he became a leader of Comite de Cardinal, which was at Wabash.
JJ:
Cardinals Committee, okay.
30
�GM:
And they picked Father [Mer, M-E-R?] and --
JJ:
Headley?
GM:
Father Headley. He’s still with us.
JJ:
Oh, he’s still with you? I’ve got to talk to him, I want to interview him.
GM:
I just, that’s what I --
JJ:
I want to interview him. We’ll talk about that later because we’re doing your
interview.
GM:
What was that?
JJ:
We’ll talk about it later because we’re doing your interview.
GM:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and he used to collect clothes at 13 South Wabash for
the people that were poor. [00:38:00] They’re gonna get their jacket or whatever.
Yeah, he was very, very good humanitarian, Jesus Rodriguez.
JJ:
Jesus Rodriguez, okay.
GM:
That’s what I – humanitarian.
JJ:
So, but Holy Name Cathedral, how many -- did you keep going there?
GM:
No, from there, we moved to Orleans, St. Joseph.
JJ:
St. Joseph, Okay. Why did you move from there to Orleans?
GM:
Because we were tired of being in the basement. Orleans was on the main floor.
(laughs)
JJ:
Oh, Orleans gave you the regular chapel, the regular church. At St. Joseph’s.
GM:
Yeah, we have Father -- Father [Fidelis?]. The Spaniard, the father -- two
Spanish, three guys, Father Domingo. Yeah, they used to serve us. St. Joseph.
[00:39:00] Right back Cabrini-Green there.
31
�JJ:
Right, right, Cabrini-Green, yeah. And so, did it have anything to do with the
neighborhood changing at all? Maybe the neighborhood was changing or people
moving out?
GM:
You know --
JJ:
I mean, I don’t know. I’m asking.
GM:
Puerto Ricans move fast, keep moving and moving from community, keep going
west, west. And I think I’ve been to all these churches. (laughs)
JJ:
Okay, so they kept moving west, the Puerto Ricans?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So they started in downtown, but they kept moving west?
GM:
Uh-huh. Then they were here in St. Vincent.
JJ:
So they moved west, like on Chicago Avenue they moved west.
GM:
Yeah, we’re coming this way.
JJ:
So they went north and west.
GM:
Yeah. Yes.
JJ:
North and West. And they spread out like that. But they started around
downtown?
GM:
Mm-hmm. They came to -
JJ:
But what about the South Side? What about the 63rd Street?
GM:
Never been [00:40:00] too much concentration of Puerto Ricans. The only
people that I know --
JJ:
But you had Council Number One there. Why did you have Council Number One
there?
32
�GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
But why?
GM:
I went there once.
JJ:
But there was never a real concentration there?
GM:
Never. Never.
JJ:
No, it’s just that -- It started there.
GM:
Yeah, some people they go there, in ’47, because their family brought them there
and stayed there.
JJ:
But it never was a concentration like --
GM:
No.
JJ:
Like on Clark Street? It wasn’t that big?
GM:
Clark and State, yeah. There were a few. Clark, and State and Superior. A few.
But then, once they -- they got married. They were single guys. They got
married.
JJ:
Most of them were single?
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
At Clark and that?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So there was more like -- mostly singles and stuff. But there was the [Water
Hotel?] and all that.
GM:
(laughs) Yeah.
JJ:
You knew about that? The Water Hotel, you never heard of it?
GM:
What was it?
33
�JJ:
Water Hotel. Water Hotel.
GM:
[00:41:00] Water?
JJ:
Water. Hotel.
GM:
Yeah, I know.
JJ:
Superior and LaSalle. Catholic charities.
GM:
I know the first Spanish store was right there. Superior and --
JJ:
And Clark.
GM:
Clark, yeah. Spanish-American.
JJ:
Spanish-American Food.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Okay. That was the first Spanish store that you know of?
GM:
This side, that I can remember of.
JJ:
And who was the owner? Was it Mario Rivera?
GM:
Yeah, it was, yeah. Mario Rivera.
JJ:
But that was the first Spanish store?
GM:
Yeah, then they kept moving.
JJ:
And they kept moving --
GM:
There was a lot of Spanish stores. Around here, Halsted, you know, but then, all
of it’s gone.
JJ:
All of it’s gone. Okay, so you were on Orleans. So were you living over there?
GM:
No, I live always in Lakeview.
JJ:
You always lived in Lakeview? I was living on --
GM:
Or by Lakeview, I mean, I mean, right here, in this area. [00:42:00]
34
�GM:
I lived by 2308 Lincoln Avenue.
JJ:
Okay. 2308?
GM:
Yeah. Right in front of Children’s Memorial Hospital.
JJ:
Okay, but that’s Lincoln Park. That’s Lincoln Park.
GM:
Yeah. Lincoln Park.
JJ:
Okay. So right around there, you always lived around Lincoln Avenue?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Because there were some hillbillies over by Lincoln and Sheffield. There was
like a hillbilly neighborhood.
GM:
Uh-huh.
JJ:
And you said -- so you were always around Lincoln Avenue --
GM:
Always.
JJ:
And Cisco -- there was a guy named [Cisco?]. The rebels, (Spanish) [00:42:35].
But you didn’t know that.
GM:
No. I heard probably.
JJ:
Yeah, you heard? Okay.
GM:
I know a guy that (Spanish) [00:42:44] Dracula.
JJ:
Dracula.
GM:
(laughs) I think he’s still around.
JJ:
Okay. So now you’re with the Caballeros of San Juan at St. Joseph, you had
Father Fidelis. [00:43:00] What did they do there? What did the Caballeros do
there? Was that a concilio? Was there a concil--
35
�GM:
They do. They had a group, too, that they house to house knocking doors,
preaching the gospel, bringing people into the church. And they coordinate
retiros, you know, retreats.
JJ:
What were the retreats like? Did you --
GM:
They had their annual picnic at the St. Francis Boys’ Club.
JJ:
Where was that?
GM:
Down -- Wisconsin, I think.
JJ:
In Wisconsin?
GM:
Yeah, St. Francis Boys’ Club. Libertyville.
JJ:
Oh, Libertyville?
GM:
That’s Illinois. Libertyville. Yeah, that was an annual picnic.
JJ:
Of the Caballeros?
GM:
Yeah, music and everything.
JJ:
And when did that start? What year did that start?
GM:
I would say --
JJ:
Was there one in ’54, 1954?
GM:
Between the ’60s [00:44:00] and ’70s. Yeah.
JJ:
Right. Between the ’60s and ’70s they were going to Libertyville.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
For an annual picnic and a lot of people showed up?
GM:
Yeah, in September. That was like a Labor Day weekend that they had the --
JJ:
And a lot of people showed up.
GM:
(inaudible), yeah.
36
�JJ:
Three hundred, four hundred?
GM:
I would say more.
JJ:
More than that? Okay, 500 or maybe 1,000?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
A lot of people in the --
GM:
It was a big outing.
JJ:
But it was just one day or the whole weekend?
GM:
That was just one day.
JJ:
One day.
GM:
I don’t know if it was Saturday. Probably Saturday because Sunday is --
JJ:
It was Libertyville, Illinois. Okay. So then from St. Joseph’s -- but St. Joseph
participated in the picnic?
GM:
Yes, and St. Michael. They all -- all the churches. [00:45:00] It was not just one
community; all the Spanish churches, they go on the picnic.
JJ:
Okay. And they went, did they rent a bus, or they’d go in cars?
GM:
No, every -- well, you know, some people -- they had buses. But I used to drive
my own car.
JJ:
Okay. You’d drive your own car. So yeah, what kind of car did you have?
GM:
(laughs) Well. By then I was driving a ’56 DeSoto.
JJ:
Oh, I see, DeSoto.
GM:
Yeah. Automatic, push button.
JJ:
Oh, wow.
GM:
Yeah, by that time. ’56 DeSoto.
37
�JJ:
So, okay, so now, when did you go to St. Michael’s? You said you went to St.
Michael’s. So from St. Joseph, you went to St. Michael’s?
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
But you never lived in Old Town, though?
GM:
Old Town there?
JJ:
Yeah.
GM:
No.
JJ:
No, you never lived there. You always lived here.
GM:
I’d go there.
JJ:
But you always lived here, but you went there.
GM:
[00:46:00] Yeah.
JJ:
So that was like the center?
GM:
I always stayed here.
JJ:
But -- you stayed here, but that was like the center for Puerto Ricans?
GM:
Yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah, the gathering, for the --
JJ:
So it started like Holy Name Cathedral, and then it went to St. Joseph’s.
GM:
Uh-huh. And then St. Michael.
JJ:
And then St. Michael’s. So you just followed the --
GM:
Yeah, then St. Francis.
JJ:
-- followed the Caballeros. You just follow the Caballeros.
GM:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Because it was the same group of people?
GM:
Yeah.
38
�JJ:
So the Caballeros were -- when the people were moving, the Caballeros followed
them.
GM:
Exactly.
JJ:
Because they -- first, they were in Holy Name Cathedral. Then they went to St.
Joseph -- and if I’m wrong, let me know. Let me know. But then they went to St.
Joseph, and then St. Michael’s became like a center?
GM:
Yes.
JJ:
Most central. I mean, it became a lot of activity?
GM:
Oh, yeah. Dances three days of -- in the weekend.
JJ:
Three days a week? At St. Michael’s?
GM:
There’s Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon.
JJ:
[00:47:00] So you must have had a lot of good dancers. Because you were
going to dance school.
GM:
(laughs) I went for a while.
JJ:
So there was good dancers?
GM:
Too tired. Making candy. Making candy --
JJ:
I remember going there, but they had pretty good dancers.
GM:
Yeah, oh yeah, they do.
JJ:
So they really -- people got into dancing.
GM:
Oh, yeah.
JJ:
And I know that one of -- Jesus Rodriguez’s son, Jose --
GM:
His kid, his son.
JJ:
He said Jose was a bad dancer.
39
�GM:
He used to go down, pick up a hanky with his teeth.
JJ:
He used to do what?
GM:
He used to, you know, like split down.
JJ:
And pick up a handkerchief with his teeth? I remember him, because --
GM:
I don’t know if he died or they had --
JJ:
No, he’s still alive. He’s still alive, the other one died.
GM:
Oh, okay. (Spanish) [00:47:45]
JJ:
Yeah, (inaudible). But I remember, I remember he would take off his suit coat
and have the girl hold his suit coat and flip her around.
GM:
He was good.
JJ:
He was a good dancer.
GM:
He’d put up on the shows then.
JJ:
He would put on a show, [00:48:00] that was Jose Rodriguez, yeah. That was
Jesus Rodriguez’s son.
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Okay, so that was at St. Michael’s, at the dances there. (Spanish) [00:48:10].
GM:
Yeah, they’d sell.
JJ:
So what did they sell, what kind of food did they sell?
GM:
I don’t remember. (Spanish) [00:48:19]. Empanadas, and pasteles. Yeah.
JJ:
So now did they have a -- okay, empanadas, pasteles, and what about who
cooked it?
GM:
Huh?
40
�JJ:
Who were the people that cooked it? Who cooked the food? (Spanish)
[00:48:38].
GM:
Oh, who cooked that?
JJ:
Yeah.
GM:
They had a group. (Spanish) [00:48:43] about two years ago, she passed away.
Paula. Paula (Spanish) [00:48:58 00:49:25] She passed away.
(Spanish) [00:49:30 - 00:49:59]
GM:
Yeah, [00:50:00] they’d hang out there.
JJ:
Where’s the Crown Liquor at?
GM:
Right here on Wrightwood -- Lincoln and Wrightwood.
JJ:
Lincoln and Wrightwood? They used to hang out there?
GM:
At that time they called them the Crown Liquor.
JJ:
The Crown Liquor group?
GM:
Yeah, they had a billiard and they had --
JJ:
But they started on Clark Street. They started in Puerto Rico, but then they were
on Clark Street. The Hacha Viejas, the Old Hatchets.
GM:
Oh yeah, they come from Hacha Vieja, from Puerto Rico.
JJ:
They came from Puerto Rico, but they were from Aguas Buenas. They came
from Aguas Buenas.
GM:
Aguas Buenas?
JJ:
Yeah. I think, you know. (Spanish) [00:50:37].
GM:
(Spanish) [00:50:38]
JJ:
So you knew them, you knew them?
41
�GM:
Yeah, they played. They’d play pool there.
JJ:
They’d play pool.
GM:
Yeah, they --
JJ:
So they didn’t really get into --
GM:
The only --
JJ:
Once in a while.
GM:
The only way I knew them, because [Leito?] --
(Spanish) [00:51:00 - 00:51:09]
JJ:
And you went to the Crown Liquor with them?
GM:
Yeah, I was already -- had children already.
JJ:
But I mean, you saw them there. Were they --
GM:
Yeah, they’d play pool.
JJ:
Did they bother people? I heard they were a gang. Did they --
GM:
No, because they were a bunch of -- if somebody come from the outside, and
start trouble, it’s like, forget it. But they knew everybody knew each other.
JJ:
So they were just friendly.
GM:
Like I knew Leito, I was his friend.
JJ:
So everybody was friends.
GM:
My brother-in-law, that was Diana’s father. He knew all of them, too.
JJ:
But if somebody from the outside came and started trouble, they were in trouble.
GM:
Yeah, if anybody come and say the wrong thing, forget it. I never was there
when there was trouble, but I was already -- I already had to stop going there. I
know a guy, they cut him right here.
42
�JJ:
They cut him?
GM:
[00:52:00] Yeah.
JJ:
One of the Hacha Viejas --
GM:
(inaudible)
JJ:
-- cut somebody?
GM:
Oh, yeah.
JJ:
Cut somebody else?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
And that was over a girlfriend or a beer or what was that about?
GM:
No, I think a guy comes and says something to one of the guys that was there.
The guy didn’t want to do it, so he (inaudible). You know, like say, “You don’t do
that to my friend.”
JJ:
Oh, because the other guy came in, protected them, the friend. Okay. So they
were like a gang. Were they a gang?
GM:
Actually, no.
JJ:
Not really?
GM:
No, because --
JJ:
They just stuck together.
GM:
They just, by coincidence.
JJ:
But they had a name.
GM:
They don’t meet there. Because everybody was a working person. Just coming
there for a beer and play a couple (inaudible). By accident, they are there,
coincidence. From there, everybody just got their own place.
43
�JJ:
Okay, but they call themselves the Old Hatchets.
GM:
They were just like a bunch of friends there.
JJ:
Bunch of friends, but they had a name. [00:53:00] They had a name. The Old
Hatchet, Hacha Vieja.
GM:
Oh, they were the Hacha Vieja.
JJ:
Yeah, they had a name.
GM:
Yeah, they were the Hacha Vieja.
JJ:
But they were not a gang, you don’t look at them like a gang.
GM:
Well, they already old.
JJ:
They were old already?
GM:
Yeah, (Spanish) [00:53:13] Leito, [Jorge?]. He was the youngest one.
(break in audio)
JJ:
-- other places did they go to?
GM:
That I don’t know. The only place I know them, but I heard a lot of stories. They
used to hang around on Halsted.
JJ:
Halsted and what?
GM:
Halsted and Armitage, I think.
JJ:
Oh, they were on Halsted and Armitage, right around there?
GM:
Yeah. There was -- on Dickens, there was a hot dog.
JJ:
By the hot dog stand?
GM:
I think they were in front of that.
JJ:
Yeah, there was on Halsted -- yeah. But that was different groups.
GM:
Mm-hmm.
44
�JJ:
On Halsted and Dickens.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
There was a lot of different groups here.
GM:
Yeah, corner, hot corner there.
JJ:
Yeah, hot corner. Yeah, and there. Okay, so now [00:54:00] you’re at St.
Michael’s. Did you go to another of the Caballeros --
GM:
Then I was married, I had kids.
JJ:
Okay.
GM:
Then I went to St. -- I went to St. Vincent.
JJ:
St. Vincent DePaul?
GM:
St. Vincent DePaul.
JJ:
Were the Caballeros of San Juan there?
GM:
No, I never, I didn’t join it anymore.
JJ:
Any one?
GM:
No.
JJ:
But were there other Spanish people there? At St. Vincent?
GM:
Oh, yeah, nineteen sixty -- nineteen sixty-five, sixty-six, the church was full of
Puerto Ricans.
JJ:
Nineteen sixty-five, sixty-six?
GM:
Full of them.
JJ:
St. Vincent DePaul.
GM:
Yeah, but I -- since I was not involved into anything.
JJ:
Not Mexican, mainly Puerto Rican?
45
�GM:
Mainly Puerto Rican.
JJ:
Okay. And I mean it was packed.
GM:
Sometimes you’d find no place to sit.
JJ:
The big church?
GM:
That’s the big church.
JJ:
This is the big church. There was not -- they didn’t, were not in the basement.
GM:
Huh? [00:55:00] Oh, no.
JJ:
They were in the big church.
GM:
As a matter of fact, years later, years after that, they were trying to sell stuff
because -- from the church, like taking the old confession or something. I bought
a door. Just to give $20. I still got it with me in the building. (laughs) I’ve still got
it, it’s a [relic?] there. Old confessional. All solid oak, I cannot lift it now. I used
to but I cannot lift it now. I was there about 25 years.
JJ:
At St. Vincent?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
At St. Vincent, you were there 25 years?
GM:
I got married there, at St. Vincent.
JJ:
So, but they didn’t have any activities, you said.
GM:
I never joined.
JJ:
You never joined. You just went there every Sunday.
GM:
They had Caballeros de Colón.
JJ:
Caballeros de Colón.
GM:
Yeah. Knights of Columbus.
46
�JJ:
Knights of Columbus.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
They were not [00:56:00] Puerto Rican, or --?
GM:
Puertorriqueños.
JJ:
Oh, Knights of Columbus were Puerto Ricans.
GM:
Mm-hmm. And they yo también knocking doors.
JJ:
So this was not the Caballeros de San Juan, this was the Knights of Columbus.
GM:
No, the Knights of Columbu-- sí, Caballero Colón.
JJ:
Caballeros de Colón.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So it was like a different branch? They were separate.
GM:
Yeah. But do the same thing.
JJ:
The same thing meaning what? They had activities and retreats?
GM:
Some of the Caballeros de San Juan became Caballeros de Colón.
JJ:
What about St. Teresa? You didn’t go to St. Teresa’s.
GM:
No, I never did.
JJ:
That was a different group.
GM:
I visited there a couple of times.
JJ:
But St. Vincent was packed with Puerto Ricans?
GM:
Yeah. St. Teresa also had a mass.
JJ:
Yeah, they had also at St. -- because people had kind of moved, they kept
moving, stuff like that, you know? And St. Sebastian had something too, right?
GM:
Oh yeah, that was another big community.
47
�JJ:
That was another big community.
GM:
I never went there, too. [00:57:00] I know a lot of people from there, though.
JJ:
So that was like the Near North Side Puerto Rican community. So would you say
that -- so you lived in a few places in Lincoln Park, did you -- in 1953 were there
a lot of Puerto Ricans in Lincoln Park? And when I say Lincoln Park, I mean, like
from North Avenue to Diversey, from the park until maybe Racine. Were there a
lot of Puerto Ricans living in that area?
GM:
No.
JJ:
In 1953?
GM:
You hardly see any. Then they start coming in.
JJ:
Then they start coming in. Okay. And then they start leaving again?
GM:
Yeah, well, people get old, people get married. They lose their jobs. Rent goes
high.
JJ:
The rent goes high?
GM:
So you start moving west.
JJ:
Did it have more to do with the rent getting high [00:58:00] or just people getting
old?
GM:
Other people were afraid of gangs.
JJ:
Okay, people were afraid of gangs?
GM:
Yeah. Like I have my house where I live now. I came from Wrigleyville, that’s
where I lived, had a house over there. And I wanted to buy a house here to be
closer to my job right here (inaudible), and the bank won’t give the loan.
JJ:
The bank won’t give you a loan?
48
�GM:
No, they say that’s a red line. They say, I can get you bungalow west but not
here.
JJ:
Who told you that, that it was a red line?
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
Who said it was a red line?
GM:
The banks at that time.
JJ:
They told you that it was a red line.
GM:
At that time.
JJ:
So meaning --
GM:
Almost every house at a sign for sale.
JJ:
Why did they call it red line?
GM:
They say it because no people were -- they weren’t giving no loans.
JJ:
No loan for people.
GM:
For you to buy a house.
JJ:
[00:59:00] If you were Spanish, or no?
GM:
No, because they see that the neighborhood was going down.
JJ:
Okay, so they didn’t want to give you a new loan.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Because the neighborhood was going down.
GM:
So the only way I got the house was because we were the only [to order?].
JJ:
But you could afford the pay the loan.
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
But you could afford to pay the loan.
49
�GM:
Oh, yeah, I had a job. I had a loan with the house that I had.
JJ:
It was a loan, it was a mortgage. You had a mortgage already.
GM:
But when I went over here, they told me no.
JJ:
And they said it was a red line. That means that they’re not going to give money.
GM:
That’s right. Risky line.
JJ:
So they called it a red line.
GM:
Risky line, red line; risky. Yeah. That was in 1970.
JJ:
But they gave loans to other people.
GM:
That I don’t know. Because that’s why people were selling, to get it out.
JJ:
Okay. That’s where they were selling?
GM:
And it was hard for them to -- I bought the house for $20,000. I took my chances.
[01:00:00] Yeah. See, if I would have been another person, then I don’t believe
in people. Because I believe in people. Once you know them, just say hi to
them, become your friend and everything like that. But some people look at
people, to them, just the way they look, they look criminal. You know what I
mean? And I don’t believe in that. I told my wife, nobody’s going to get me out
of here. I work right there. Because, in case something happened to you, I’ll be
right here in a minute. I bought it. They did two things. Broke windows, stole my
flowers. They bothered my kids. My boy was in the Boy Scouts. And just
because they saw him with a uniform on, the kids on the street grabbed him and
showed him a knife. I said, “It’s okay. I’ll take you to Boy Scouts myself.” You
know. And I said, “That’s scary,” you know. And, [01:01:00] but I believe that if
you work hard and work out with people, you make it. And everybody would do
50
�like I did, then it had to be -- live in the area. And I believe that any place that
you go, just because you see different colors or different people, all you have to
say is, make a new friend, giving welcome in the area, and there will be no
problem. So -- I’m still there, I’m there.
JJ:
Okay.
GM:
The gangs were around. In the middle of the day, they were shooting over here.
Yeah. Right in front of the factory, the candy factory. I don’t know if you’ve ever
heard of a guy, heard a guy by the name of [01:02:00] [Jughead?].
JJ:
Jughead? Okay.
GM:
Yeah. They shot him right there. Right by the tracks.
JJ:
Was he Spanish or no?
GM:
No, they weren’t.
JJ:
American?
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Okay. Okay, so there were different gangs, war gangs and Spanish gangs.
GM:
Exactly.
JJ:
And they were fighting each other. Okay, so when they started talking about
changing the neighborhood, you wanted them. Because you were a homeowner.
So you wanted change in the neighborhood. So you wanted them to come in in
urban renewal and fix everything up?
GM:
Oh, yeah. I put money in my house. And then --
JJ:
Because it was going to be worth more money.
GM:
Oh, yeah. Then the builders start building.
51
�JJ:
Okay. So you actually -- it helped you up.
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Because you owned the building. Okay.
GM:
Yeah, I know.
JJ:
What about your friends and your neighbors? [01:03:00] What about the friends
and neighbors that were Spanish? How did you feel --
GM:
Like I say, we Spanish, we’re changing all the time. All the time. Since we got a
home to go to. Say, when you come from a country that -- you got only one-way
ticket, you’ve gotta stick at it. But the day we don’t like to be here, we go over to
Abuelita, stay with Abuelita. (laughs) Yeah, you know, we have that flexibility.
Some people don’t have that flexibility, so they make it. And for a while it was
scary, you know, but that’s (inaudible). And --
JJ:
But do you think that they took advantage of some people, or no?
GM:
What was that?
JJ:
Like, do you think that some of the real estate people took advantage of some
people that didn’t [01:04:00] know? Like Spanish people --
GM:
I didn’t really bother to investigate. But, like I said --
JJ:
I just wanted to know --
GM:
Yeah. Almost every house was for sale over here on Racine, that’s why --
JJ:
Were they Spanish people’s homes?
GM:
No. My sister, my sister lost -- sold her house, which is the house next -- oh, that
one. See the house?
JJ:
Yeah, I see that.
52
�GM:
It was not like that. That was Martha’s. Martha’s mom.
JJ:
Oh, okay.
GM:
Yeah. They sold it. But they made some money; he bought it for 17, sold it for
94.
JJ:
Oh, that’s pretty nice. That’s pretty good. So they were smart.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
They were smart. But now, a lot of our people didn’t have -- so that the smart
way to do it, just to buy the house --
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
-- and then sell it for profit, [01:05:00] right? But a lot of our people rented, right?
GM:
They went to rent?
JJ:
They didn’t own the houses.
GM:
I don’t know much about -- I know my --
JJ:
You know, mucho Puerto Rican, they were renters.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
They didn’t own houses. So how do you feel about that?
GM:
They keep, when the rent start coming up, then they keep moving west.
JJ:
But how did you feel? You didn’t feel anything?
GM:
That --
JJ:
That they were being pushed out, or no?
GM:
No, because everybody thinks different. Okay, everybody thinks different. If you
know, if I’m going to sell this property here with a fixed income that I have, and
they want -- the real estate want $12,000 taxes a year, you know? Then you
53
�say, well, I’m going to go to further west. But I’m a fighter. [01:06:00] I believe
that I’m a good place. I’m accessible to all the services that I need, like doctors,
and the hospital, and shopping. I can do everything within walking distance. I
say, well, I lose one side, but I gain the other side. And some people just
because, for a little reason like that, they sell their property because some place
else -- A lot of -- many reasons. Right now, only my sister and I are here. But at
one time, were all of us.
JJ:
And it’s worth -- today it’s worth a lot of money. I mean, a property in this area.
GM:
Yeah, I have [paid for it?].
JJ:
Now did they raise the -- because of the property value going up, your taxes go
up too, right?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
How do you feel about that?
GM:
I don’t think it’s right. I don’t think it’s right because [01:07:00] that the
government should take advantage of the opportunity that you have, that your
property is worth more. It’s your home, and you make it your living quarter, you
know, at least until the day that you die. Why, the government, you have to pay
them for the property value? It’s not their property, for them to collect their tax.
That’s the way I look at it. Yeah.
JJ:
Okay, what are you -- today, what are you doing? You said you’re still involved
with the Caballeros?
GM:
What was that?
JJ:
Today, you said, you’re still involved with the Caballeros today?
54
�GM:
Yeah, it is Los Hermanos.
JJ:
Los Hermanos. (Spanish) [01:07:51]
GM:
They come from Los Caballeros, Cursillistas, and the Los Hermanos.
JJ:
Now they’re called Los Hermanos.
GM:
Huh?
JJ:
They’re not called [01:08:00] the --
GM:
They still have the Cursillista. Caballeros, no, they don’t have that anymore.
JJ:
They don’t have the Caballeros anymore?
GM:
But they have the Cursillistas and Los Hermanos.
JJ:
Okay, so today you still are in Los Hermanos.
GM:
We get together. Because Los Hermanos is a group. Cursillistas is a
movement.
JJ:
Oh, Cursillistas is a movement.
GM:
Yeah, it’s a movement that’s all over Puerto Rico. In English, they have it too.
(Spanish) [01:08:24] But Los Hermanos, only one. That’s the only group that is
registered with the Archdiocese.
JJ:
And they came from the Caballeros.
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
But they’re called Hermanos.
GM:
Hermanos, Hermanas, and la Familia de Dios.
JJ:
Oh, Hermanos, Hermanas --
GM:
Yeah, one time when they were the Hermanos, but it was almost -- the
Hermanas show up. So they included the --
55
�JJ:
The women.
GM:
The women.
JJ:
Because the women [01:09:00] always showed up. So who’s in charge, the
women or the men? Who’s in charge, the women or the men?
GM:
Oh, they’re together.
JJ:
Oh, they’re all together. Okay, well, we’ll finish it up.
GM:
(laughs) Let me think a bit.
(break in audio)
JJ:
Okay, so right now, today, you’re working with the Hermanos and the Hermanas.
Out of what church? I mean, what church?
GM:
St. Hedwig.
JJ:
St. Hedwig?
GM:
Hedwig. It’s on Hoyne and Webster.
JJ:
Hoyne and Webster?
GM:
Mm-hmm.
JJ:
Is that -- and are there a lot of Hispanics there?
GM:
A group. A group is from all different communities. We just don’t belong to St.
Hedwig, we just pay rent there to have our activities there.
JJ:
But it’s -- your headquarters are there, the main headquarters?
GM:
It’s right there.
JJ:
At St. Hedwig?
GM:
St. Hedwig.
56
�JJ:
And who are the leaders there? [01:10:00] I mean, what are some of the
names?
GM:
The leaders? Like, I am chairman of activities.
JJ:
You’re the chairman of activities?
GM:
I am, I think it’s seven.
JJ:
Who are some of the other leaders then?
GM:
And I go to St. Aloysius church. The president of the group, he comes from the
47th Street, Puerto Rican too.
JJ:
Puerto Rican?
GM:
Yeah, and the vice president, she comes from there. Secretary, come from near
Humboldt Park. Sí.
JJ:
(Spanish) [01:10:38]? Oh, los Hermanos son puertorriqueño?
GM:
Sí, puertorriqueño. (Spanish) [01:10:44] dos Mexicanas y un Hondurena.
JJ:
But the majority are Puerto Rican?
GM:
Sí. Sí, are Puerto Rican.
JJ:
Because it came from the Caballeros de San Juan.
GM:
Uh-huh, yeah, yeah.
JJ:
Okay, and so what about -- you mentioned Father Headley.
GM:
[01:11:00] Father Headley.
JJ:
Does he work with you?
GM:
He’s retired already.
JJ:
He’s retired.
57
�GM:
But when we need him to go, to give us some classes, he comes. Alternating
Mondays.
JJ:
Because he did a lot of work with the Cardinals’ Committee, right?
GM:
Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, they went to Panama. Jesus Rodriguez también.
(Spanish) [01:11:24] Panama.
JJ:
So the Caballeros de San Juan, they have something in Panama, or the
Archdiocese?
GM:
No, they were independent.
JJ:
Independent. And then they went over there?
GM:
Yeah, well, Jesus was (inaudible). He’s in a wheelchair now. He’s retired.
JJ:
Okay. But they were -- I heard they were at St. Mary of the Woods Church, is
there where they’re at?
GM:
Where at?
JJ:
Father Headley, St. Mary of the Woods?
GM:
Father Headley?
JJ:
Yeah.
GM:
When was that now?
JJ:
I read something on the internet, on their website.
GM:
Yeah? I know he’s in [01:12:00] a home, too.
JJ:
He’s in a home too?
GM:
Yeah.
JJ:
(inaudible)
GM:
Not feeling too good. Yeah, prostate.
58
�JJ:
Okay, so you have Spanish mass here, or you have a headquarters there? You
have a --
GM:
Well, like I said, we go to our own community. We don’t go to mass over there.
Which are -- the priest tell us, you guys go over there, and we don’t see too much
of you guys. You’re going to have to, you know.
JJ:
Start going to mass.
GM:
Yeah. So we try to -- show us up, like when they have activities, go help, stuff
like that.
JJ:
But you pay rent there? That’s your --
GM:
Yeah, we pay. We pay all year round rent. Which is not much for a part in the
basement.
JJ:
Oh, for the basement?
GM:
For the Bible classes.
JJ:
Bible classes? And you do activities too, you do activities.
GM:
Yeah, and then our --
GM:
What kind of activities do you do?
GM:
Well, [01:13:00] we -- we’re supposed to visit the sick, visit the prison. The sick,
the prison, the hospital, funerals. And [dos, tres things]. Now, some of the family
and the members family are -- visit them. Novenas.
JJ:
Novenas? You do novenas?
GM:
Novenas. Yeah.
JJ:
Okay. So novenas?
GM:
Novenas.
59
�JJ:
Okay. So when somebody dies, you do like a novena?
GM:
Oh, yeah.
JJ:
Because I remember my mother used to --
GM:
Somebody dies, a member of the family, they called them. And we just start
calling people, and we do the service, unless they already have someone.
JJ:
So you do it at somebody’s house, right?
GM:
Hmm?
JJ:
Do you do the novena at somebody’s house?
GM:
Yeah, the [01:14:00] member of the family.
JJ:
Member of the family. So it’s still the same as the Caballeros de San Juan?
That’s what -- they used to do that.
GM:
Yeah. Same thing.
JJ:
But it’s called -- now it’s Hermanos.
GM:
We have about -- we have registered about, I think, fifty-some members, but
average show up 20, 22.
JJ:
Now, what about the credit union? You’re not connected to that credit union,
right? The Caballeros Credit Union?
GM:
Which one?
JJ:
The Caballeros de San Juan Credit Union, on Fullerton and --
GM:
Oh, they still got the building there.
JJ:
They’ve still got it?
GM:
Still operating.
JJ:
But you’re not connected to it?
60
�GM:
No, I never did, because -- (laughter) I want to deal with bigger banks.
JJ:
Okay.
GM:
Yeah. Yeah, there was so many -- they were so little.
JJ:
We’re gonna finish this up. What do you -- maybe we forgot something that you
need, that you want to tell [01:15:00] people?
GM:
Like what?
JJ:
What do you think that’s important that you want to say?
GM:
Well, I would say that -- you know, to be a good citizen and stuff like that? Well, I
would say to people is, then never expect for someone to come to you and do
things for you. You should always go and get it yourself. How do you do that?
You do that to -- respecting others, working, giving them a nice work day, to use
the buses or your -- respect properties. And like for instance, I got [01:16:00]
married. I had three children and became a grandfather; I had four
grandchildren. I worked 46 years making candy to keep myself busy. (laughs)
And I’ve been lucky enough to be around good people. They appreciated my
work, my job. They paid me what they thought that I was worth. And I gave
them -- but it was honest [love?]. And like I say, always -- when you see things
that -- always try to advise the person and guide them to the right way.
[01:17:00] And if you do things like that, respect your neighbors. And help as
much as you can, always. Belonging to a group, a religious group, is a good
thing because that’s what you really find people that -- true friends. And being
busy is the best thing that you can do. Take away your mind from thinking bad.
And I say, habits -- I used to smoke. I quit that a long time ago. And drink, now,
61
�my health doesn’t permit to have more than one drink a day. You know, it tastes
like you want to have more, but if you want to stay healthy, listen to your doctors.
Always listen to your kids [01:18:00] whenever they come to you. And help your
wife as much as you can.
JJ:
(Spanish) [01:18:09]
GM:
Puertorriqueños?
(Spanish) [01:18:22 -01:18:41]
GM:
I say, we are good people.
(Spanish) [01:18:45 - 01:19:59]
GM:
I learned that lesson.
(Spanish) [01:20:01 - 01:20:17]
GM:
You know, you don’t get nothing for nothing. You’ve gotta -- you want
something, you work for it. You know, just believe in yourself. And besides that,
believe in people. Believe in people.
JJ:
Okay. [01:20:35]
(video repeats)
END OF VIDEO FILE
62
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1bcc2945ecec385543eee25f3d5f1579.mp4
ee6366abc65c7d16f5e037d67ed58402
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Description
An account of the resource
Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives.
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
2012-2017
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Título
Spanish language Title entry
Guillermo Martínez vídeo entrevista y biografía
Descripción
Spanish language Description entry
Guillermo Martínez nació en Puerto Rico. En los 1950s se mudó a chicago, en la parte más norte y oeste de Lincoln Park, cerca de Diversary Parkway y Ashland Avenue. Dueño de su propia casa y porque no vive cerca del lago, su vecindario no fue afectado por el aumento de impuestos y inspectores de construcción hasta más tarde que muchos de los otras partes de Lincoln Park. Señor Martínez describe sus memorias de Lincoln Park, incluyendo la jóvenes puertorriqueños en la aria, los tabernas, y grupos sociales. También habla sobre sus membrecía en los Hermanos De Dios y su deseo de vender su casa y retirarse a Puerto Rico. Hasta por dentro de la comunidad Puertorriqueña de Lincoln Park, había discusiones de los efectos de la nueva construcción. Señor Martínez suministra una idea de las diferentes perspectivas en la comunidad Puertorriqueña de Lincoln Park que él piensa que no fueron eliminado, sino hicieron la decisión de cambiarlas. Como alguien quien beneficio financiamiento por cambio del vecindario, el describe los cambios positivos que vio por la reconstrucción y los efectos de una duración larga tiene en Lincoln Park y Chicago.
Sujetos
Spanish language Subject terms
Young Lords (Organización)
Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos
Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales
Idioma español--Relatos personales
Justicia social
Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65_Martinez_Guillermo
Title
A name given to the resource
Guillermo Martínez video interview and transcript
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Martínez, Guillermo
Description
An account of the resource
Guillermo Martínez was born in Puerto Rico. In the 1950s he moved to Chicago, settling in the most northern and western edge of Lincoln Park, near Diversey Parkway and Ashland Avenue. Mr. Martínez describes his memories of Lincoln Park, including the Puerto Rican youth groups of the area, local taverns, and social clubs. Even within the Puerto Rican community of Lincoln Park, there was debate about the effects of urban renewal. Mr. Martínez provides insight into these differing perspectives, including his belief that the Puerto Rican community of Lincoln Park was not forced out, but moved by choice.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puerto Ricans--Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Spanish language--Personal narratives
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-03-02
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c159f33d01ce2d48dac78034b49d0578.mp4
fef4577eaede9f90bbe7956adf15213d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/79f14533415c6c95b6a681e3ffe8de34.pdf
ca5259ea1d8c046120cc405872c2b57a
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Douglas Martyn
(00:45:53)
(00:20) Background Information
• Born in Flint Michigan in 1925.
• Father worked in factory.
• Joined National Guard at 16.
• During high school, worked for National Guard on Saturdays only.
• Left high school before graduating to join military.
• Drafted in February of 1944.
(04:25) Basic Training
• Fort Sheridan, Illinois.
• He knew what to expect at basic training because of his prior training with the
National Guard.
(05:25) After Basic
• He helped people take the aptitude test for 6 months.
(06:30) Chicago
• The men would stay in hotels that were converted into servicemen’s quarters.
• Attended stage shows and movies in Chicago.
(07:50) Time as a Medic
• He worked in a medical dispensary.
• He doesn’t know what qualified him to become a medic.
• He was taught by a pre-med student all of the proper medical procedures.
• He had to sterilize and sharpen his own needles.
• He remembers men fainting while getting their inoculations.
• The men had to be on call during weekends to help with emergencies.
• The doctors in the dispensary were all civilian doctors.
(17:45) After Chicago
• Switched to the Air Corps.
• Based in Lake Charles, Louisiana.
• The base was very warm, especially during the summer.
• Limited contact with civilians, unless he ventured into town.
• Based at Lake Charles for around 6 months, until it was closed.
• Sent to El Paso, Texas.
• He would ride along with pilots over the oilfields of Texas.
(22:46) Alaska
�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Was sent as a medic.
He was stationed in the western half of Alaska, near Nome.
It was a rather large base, due to fighting in Aleutians.
The men did a lot of fishing and hunting during their time in Alaska.
They burned oil to keep warm during the winter.
The oil would start freezing and become very thick because of the cold.
Moose were around the base, but never came near the men.
Mechanics, maintenance men and medics were the main groups of people stationed at
the base.
There were a couple of seaplanes on the base, but no major military planes.
(30:45) Important Leaders who visited the camp
• General Eisenhower came to the base to fish at one point.
• They built cabins at a far end of the base for the upper echelon of military leaders.
• Curtis LeMay, the future head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff also visited the camp.
• He complained to LeMay, without knowing who he was, and soon after, some
engineers came and renovated some of the base.
(35:25) Other Duties in Alaska
• He helped build a floating dock for seaplanes to land on.
• Helped with a lot of small odd jobs, such as plumbing, around the base.
• Was stationed in Alaska for 20 months.
(37:00) Anchorage
• The men would take three-day leaves from the camp to go to Anchorage.
• There were recreation facilities for the troops in Anchorage.
(39:10) Thawing Water Pipes
• One of the men caught the pump house on fire while thawing the water pumps.
(40:00) After Alaska
• Was discharged in Great Falls, Montana.
• Returned home to Flint after discharge.
(41:00) Work
• Attended school at the General Motors Institute.
• Received an apprenticeship and then began working.
• He worked as an engineer.
(42:25) Grand Haven, Michigan
• After visiting relatives in Grand Haven, they decided to move from Flint to Grand
Haven.
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MartynD
Title
A name given to the resource
Martyn, Douglas (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Martyn, Douglas
Description
An account of the resource
Douglas Martyn served in the US Army from 1944 to 1946. He initially trained as a medic in Chicago and worked in a dispensary and administered inoculations to new recruits. He eventually transferred to the Army Air Corps and was based first in Louisiana and then in Alaska at a base near Nome that Generals Eisenhower and LeMay visited because of the good fishing there.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-12-21
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e1ad0d131b75c7c27ed1ebcfeaa7b585.pdf
45e9da1889bb02621886c856cdcbd462
PDF Text
Text
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Incunabula
Description
An account of the resource
The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1450/1500
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Incunabula Collection (DC-03)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Incunabula
Printing 1450-1500
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
text
Language
A language of the resource
eng
it
la
nl
de
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Viola sanctorum [folium 65]
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-03_065Martyrologium1482
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Martyrologium
Description
An account of the resource
One leaf of Viola sanctorum by Martyrologium. Printed in Augsburg by Johann Keller in 1482. [GW M21476; ISTC im00334000]
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Augsburg: Johann Keller
Subject
The topic of the resource
Incunabula
Printing 1450-1500
Language
A language of the resource
la
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1482
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Seidman Rare Books Collection
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d02f5b66adb97f6728206c5ed41250ce.mp4
d945d5909ef3f8623b08122694701560
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ff1af726a497d4a20b82da99f4089e17
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Leon Marx
(46:30)
Disc One (1:02:04)
Disc Two (1:01:41)
(00:30) Born in Battle Creek, MI 6/29/1921
(1:45) Leon’s Parents
•
•
His dad worked at Fort Custer as the Chief Engineer
His mother was a registered nurse at the sanitarium, but stayed home most of the time to
take care of the kids
(3:25) His Father at Fort Custer
•
•
The Army of Engineers built a pontoon bridge behind their house to move a bulldozer
over the river in their back yard
The bridge broke and the bulldozer ended up in the river
(4:30) School
•
•
•
•
He went through the 9th grade at River Park School
There were thirty students per class and two grades per class
His friend and he pulled a prank fire drill and sprayed the extinguisher all over their
teacher
His favorite subject was mathematics, in which he received A’s
(7:00) Kellogg High School
•
•
•
The principal was his grandfather so he did not get into much trouble
He was his grandfather’s favorite grandson and could always borrow his car to go for a
ride during school with his friends
Leon has been driving since he was ten years old
(8:15) Past Driving Experiences
•
•
•
•
He first drove a Model T Ford with three pedals and ran it into a telephone pole
When he was younger, he lived on a farm and was allowed to operate a tractor
On the farm they raised over 1,000 chickens a year, which he and his brother had to feed
and take care of
They once captured five skunks and kept them as pets
�•
•
•
•
•
The skunks sprayed everyone except he and his brother; they had to get rid of the smell
with tomato juice
He once borrowed his brother’s Model A Ford to go to the prom, which his brother had
bought after graduation for $25.00
His brother once drove a car into a river on accident and his father had to buy a tractor off
a farmer down the road to pull it out
The tractor was hard to drive, but it was fun
It had steel wheels, and started with gasoline and then later switched to diesel
(13:45) The Prom
• Leon went to the prom with a junior when he was a senior
• He was not a very good dancer, but he danced to every song
• That night he met a Detroit Tigers baseball player
(15:20) Baseball
•
It only cost $1.00 for the whole family to go to a game
•
His grandfather had played baseball in college; he traveled and played with the Detroit
Lions, so many times they were able to get into games for free and sit right next to the
dugout
(16:25) After Graduation
•
•
He went to work at Michigan Carton Company
•
In 1941 he went to Western Michigan University for Aircraft Mechanics
•
It cost him only $20.00 a semester
•
He attended college until the war broke out
(17:25) Pearl Harbor
•
When the Japanese attacked he was on a ride with a girl near Lake Michigan
•
He heard the news on the radio and then hurried home
•
He had been living with his parents at the time
•
His father had been gone working at Fort Custer for two straight weeks because they
were already on alert
•
That previous August his father had been at a meeting in Chicago
�•
At that time his father believed they would be at war with the Japanese by Christmas
(21:55) The Aftermath of Pearl Harbor
•
His father had said that the soldiers who were not good at their job were being sent to
Panama
•
But when the war got serious, Panama was a strategic location so they started sending the
soldiers to Hawaii; his father believed that was why Pearl Harbor was attacked
•
Speaking of Pearl Harbor, Leon said “No wonder it went to hell.”
•
He and his brother enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor; they were sworn in December 20th
•
They then went to Jefferson Barracks together in Missouri
(24:40) Missouri
•
Before going to Missouri, they had to stop at Fort Custer where they were sworn into the
10th Infantry
•
Afterwards they went home for one last dinner before leaving; the memory made Leon
cry
•
They shipped out the first week of January to go to Missouri; they traveled on a train with
no heat and it was negative three degrees
•
The base in Missouri was similar to Fort Custer and there were about 50 men sharing one
room
(28:35) Basic Training
•
Leon had to pull KP a few times and clean the mess hall
•
There was no graduation party, but afterwards he was sent to Long Island
•
He learned the basics of plain engines in Long Island, yet while at college he had learned
about P24s
(32:10) Mitchell Field
•
He was at Mitchell Field until 4/1/1942 and then was assigned to a service squadron
•
The master sergeant there picked on him all the time
(34:20) Special Services
•
Leon began training for the OCS and it was very hard work
•
He was reprimanded for being out at night without a pass
�•
He had helped the cook cut up whole chickens and then he became the mess hall clerk
•
He was in the kitchen all the time
(38:45) 1942 Race Riots
•
The riots were in New York and each soldier was issued 60 rounds of ammunition
•
There was also another race in Detroit at the same time
•
There were blacks against blacks, but there were no guns; they were fighting each other
with bricks and bats
•
They started firing their guns and everyone quickly ran off
•
They were called out another time and given 120 rounds a week later
•
They had to play guard duty until the National Guard Rainbow division came to relieve
them
(41:50) The Trip to Iceland
•
Leon traveled to Iceland on a Santalina cruise ship
•
He had to sleep on the top deck to keep from getting sea sick; it was very cold
•
There were many storms during the trip and lots of people got sick
•
They did not eat very well; a meal consisted of 2 boiled eggs, 2 pieces of bread, and a cup
of coffee
•
Many people would sneak into the kitchen to steal food
•
Some would just eat a whole case of onions as though they were apples
•
They had to have guards on duty to watch the kitchen 24/7
(44:10) Iceland 1942
•
There was salmon being dried out on racks all over the coast and it smelled like fish
everywhere
•
They had to go through inspection because everyone on the ship had fleas
•
He got to bar tend for 3 days and he got drunk everyday; he got sick of bartending
quickly
•
He was transferred to guard duty
•
It rains a lot in Iceland and it is always cold
�•
In the summer it only gets to about fifty degrees
•
He enjoyed cooking more than guard duty because they got the first dibs on food, worked
in a warm environment and were able to take hot showers; they also got free laundry
service
(48:00) Guard Duty
•
At one point he had heard some Morse code and called Army Intelligence
•
The next night he was transferred to a different post so that Army Intelligence could
guard the area where he had heard the code
•
It turned out to be a German spy who was sending code to Germany every night at 11pm
•
Leon then received top security clearance
•
He guarded Roosevelt’s sons and the Russian ambassador
•
He was in Iceland for two years
•
He went back and forth from cooking to guard duty
•
Privates receive $21/month and guards receive $66/month and three days off
•
He never had to shoot anyone the whole time he was in the service
(54:05) 1944
•
He went with 32 other men from the Air Corps with the 101st Division
•
He was not going to volunteer to be a paratrooper, but they would not let him cook
•
He was assigned to a higher area to guard Eisenhower’s headquarters
•
In June he was able to start cooking again
(58:30) London
•
He cooked for the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expedition Forces, Eisenhower’s staff
•
He also cooked for George Patton, who was always out of uniform to visit his nephew
that cooked with Leon
Disc Two
(00:25) The Advantages of Cooking
•
They went out on the beach and found thousands of clams
•
They ate some and gave some to the captain, then they had to go back and get more so
they could make some for everyone
�•
They were able to go into town and eat at restaurants
•
Restaurants served horse meat in Iceland
(2:40) The Boat to England
•
They played poker in his room
•
They made lots of money and went shopping; he bought scotch in Scotland
(5:10) June 2
•
He started cooking again in England
•
On June 4th he saw a buzz bomb from Germany
(9:00) Normandy
•
On June 5th reporters were denying that there was any activity in Normandy
(14:00) Cooking School
•
He went to school for a while and was taught how to bake
•
The regular personnel did not get the good food that he was taught to cook
•
He cooked for Eisenhower and his staff
•
He cooked whole pigs for the king of England and for Winston Churchill
•
Leon was treated like a king by everyone because he could cook so well
(18:50) Russia
•
Secret Service asked him to go to Russia
•
They went to Italy first because the plain was having problems
•
They stopped in Greece after Italy to pick up a new radio for the plain
•
In Greece Germans were shooting at them on the runway
•
They then went to Egypt and stayed in a hotel
•
After that they went to Iran for a week
•
In Iran there was a slave market where they were selling Caucasian women for less than
$50
(42:00) POWs
•
In Russia they were supposed to get Americans who had been in prison camps
�•
They did not find many American POWs
•
After staying in Russia for a while, many men learned to speak Russian
•
Leon was sent to Russia because they did not have any good cooks
•
Leon cook turkey in Russia for Christmas
(46:30) Poltava, Ukraine
•
The city is on a big river near Kiev
•
He cooked here also until VE Day, for five months
•
He got drunk a couple of times in Ukraine
•
He found a Russian camera and took many pictures
•
US intelligence wanted the pictures and asked him to take more
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MarxL
Title
A name given to the resource
Marx, Leon (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marx, Leon
Description
An account of the resource
Leon Marx served in the Army Air Corps during WW II, 1941-1945. He spent most of his time in guard duty and also cooked for high level officials while serving with the Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force in Europe. He received top level security Clearance and was able to cook for the King of England, Winston Churchill, and Eisenhower. While in the Air Corps Leon traveled to Iceland, Greece, Italy, Spain, Egypt, Russia, and Iran. Leon did not experience combat while serving.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army. Air Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-15
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f99e4c4ff1a9c527cd01908a36f90e94.pdf
d1f70d6c0ba71abac8ca9c27832e8533
PDF Text
Text
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PDF Text
Text
October Term 1839
The Jurors of the state of maryland for the body of Frederick County in United states [Presaid?] Henry Grace
a slave for life the Property of Ritchard Potts Esq for receiving and secreting stolen Goods some time in or
about the month of September last [?] the from Lawrence Porter a slave for Life and the Property of Samuel
R Hogg on the information of Philip Hauman John Bender and George Hauer Esq. and Samuel R Hogg.
Daniel Duvall Foreman
�[Handwritten docketing]
No. 8
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Civil War and Slavery Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865
Slavery--United States
African Americans
United States--Politics and government--19th century
Description
An account of the resource
A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lemmen, Harvey E.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1804-1897
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image; Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1804-1897
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-45_CWS000013
Title
A name given to the resource
Bill of indictment for theft against a slave belonging to Ritchard Potts, 1839
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1839
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Maryland. County Court. (Frederick County)
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans
Slavery--United States
Slave records
Court records
Crime
Slaves
Slaveholders
Bender, John
Foreman, Daniel Duvall
Grace, Henry
Hauer, George
Hauman, Philip
Hogg, Samuel R.
Porter, Lawrence
Potts, Ritchard
Maryland
Frederick County (Md.)
Description
An account of the resource
Bill of indictment against a slave, by the jurors of the State of Maryland, for receiving and secreting stolen goods from another slave.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/499aed467de1e24a8e39614ce567dee8.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
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6bc5b8af60e3b8831dffbe22573979a3
PDF Text
Text
October Term 1839
The Jurors of the state of maryland for the body of Frederick County in United states [Presaid?] Henry Grace
a slave for life the Property of Ritchard Potts Esq for receiving and secreting stolen Goods some time in or
about the month of September last [?] the from Lawrence Porter a slave for Life and the Property of Samuel
R Hogg on the information of Philip Hauman John Bender and George Hauer Esq. and Samuel R Hogg.
Daniel Duvall Foreman
�[Handwritten docketing]
No. 8
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Civil War and Slavery Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865
Slavery--United States
African Americans
United States--Politics and government--19th century
Description
An account of the resource
A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lemmen, Harvey E.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1804-1897
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image; Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1804-1897
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-45_CWS000013
Title
A name given to the resource
Bill of indictment for theft against a slave belonging to Ritchard Potts, 1839
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1839
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Maryland. County Court. (Frederick County)
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans
Slavery--United States
Slave records
Court records
Crime
Slaves
Slaveholders
Bender, John
Foreman, Daniel Duvall
Grace, Henry
Hauer, George
Hauman, Philip
Hogg, Samuel R.
Porter, Lawrence
Potts, Ritchard
Maryland
Frederick County (Md.)
Description
An account of the resource
Bill of indictment against a slave, by the jurors of the State of Maryland, for receiving and secreting stolen goods from another slave.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/226b8e7fdf56f50cc7ec74b15affab81.mp4
6396fcb82dd7120a11af35c899f1f8cd
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32642b21de9cde3966803ce9050fa692
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Julius “Bud” Masinick
(01:29:46)
(0:09:25) Pre-Enlistment
•
•
•
•
•
•
Born February 5, 1925 in Maryd, PA, which is in Eastern Pennsylvania.
Father was a coal miner
Moved to Detroit in 1936, father worked at US Rubber
Finished high school at Eastern High School in 1942
Paid attention to some of World War II. Remembers Pearl Harbor.
At graduation, he was only 16, thus he worked for a time at Ford being a mailboy.
For 2 months. Worked as a foreman until he was drafted.
(0:06:00) Training
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
(0:06:00) Drafted into the Navy in June, 1943.
Was then sent to Great Lakes Naval Station, where he did boot camp. He had
certain special duties, because he could type. He would take visitors from the gate
to the hostess house for visitors. He had the opportunity to work at the hostess
house instead of doing his basic training.
(0:11:32) Met Mickey Cochrane who got him a baseball bat and invited him to
practice with the base baseball team.
Went to service school at the Great Lakes Naval Station. There he got training in
reading and writing in Yeoman school.
(00:17:38) Did submarine school at New London, Connecticut. Attended so
called “Spritz’s Navy” where they did tests in various different things, like mental
and physical aptitude tests. They also did pressure tank tests and other tests to see
if recruit could stand escaping from a submarine.
Tests lasted about a week. After tests, they did training on very old submarines
from the early 1900s. In one episode, nearly fell off the ship during training.
They went out on old boats for most of the training, however, they did
occasionally used the newer S-Boats during their training.
There would also on occasion be those who could not mentally handle sub
training.
(00:27:55) Submarine school was 6-7 weeks, he then went to Key West for a
month to practice on sound and sonar equipment.
(00:28:38) His job was to be a striker. He did watches on top, and did lookout
duties. Also worked as first loader on 5 in gun, and captain on forward 40mm
gun. He also was the swimmer who helped to rescue aviators.
At were then transferred back to New London, where he prepared for
commissioning of USS Icefish. He got involved in baseball while he was in New
�•
•
London. He was then sent to Manitowoc, WI for the commissioning of the
Icefish.
(00:37:05) They then had to take the boat down the Mississippi. They took it
down to Chicago and then the boat was dry docked to be moved down the
Mississippi.
They took off from New Orleans to the Pacific Ocean
(00:37:54) Active Duty
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
When they were in the Caribbean, they saw a torpedo coming at them, and it just
missed.
(00:39:23) They did some trials when they were in Panama, and they spent a lot
of their time doing this training.
Most of the men on the ship had some experience on a submarine, so they had
mentors to help out the men who were inexperienced.
They then went from the Panama Canal to Pearl Harbor, and they stayed there a
couple days. Saw a man who he knew while in Pearl Harbor who later was on a
ship that got sunk.
(00:43:40) 1 out of 5 men did not make it back from the submarine corps.
He remembers that the German submarines were very small and in bad shape
(00:47:15) They were sent to the Straits of Leyte in the Philippines after Pearl
Harbor. They attacked a freighter and a troop transport. They got attacked in
return and they were depth charged pretty badly. When a sub is under attack, the
first thing that they do is dive, and then become silent. In this case, they leveled
off at 300 ft. and they got hit by 13 depth charges and then got knocked down to
412 ft.
His job was to turn the rudder cranks manually during the silent running episodes.
In one episode, they had to use a mixture of different oils in the hydraulic systems
because the system failed.
(00:53:50) The routine was at night they would be on the surface, and during the
day they would be below the surface waiting for a target to show up.
They had various different problems with the ship. They had a rudder problem in
the Yellow Sea, and they had to make their way back to Pearl Harbor.
(00:57:00) They didn’t experience any number of depth charges like they did on
that first patrol. They also didn’t encounter any other large convoys like they did
on that first patrol.
(00:57:40) There were also occasions that they had to pick up downed aviators
near Formosa.
They sank a minesweeper near Bali as well.
(1:00:35) 1st Patrol Run was Philippines, 2nd Patrol Run was the Marshall Islands,
3rd Patrol Run was Guam, 4th Patrol Run was Australia, and 5th Patrol Run was
Home
(1:01:30) They stayed in Perth, Australia for some time, where he essentially
instigated a riot by getting into a fight with a British sailor.
�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
(1:05:20) In another incident, they surfaced near Java. There were several
Javanese fishing boats. They were supposed to fire a warning shot but there was
some confusion and they sunk the boats.
(1:07:13) In another instance, they captured a Japanese boat and the captain was
interrogated, and his job was to take notes of the interrogation.
He was a boxer in the Navy. He got into a lot of fights during his time in the
service. He learned to box at Great Lakes Naval Base.
A couple of times, they had to dive because of aircraft or the suspicion of aircraft.
(1:16:30) They sometimes rotated the crew, usually around 15% of the crew each
patrol.
One of his jobs was to be the swimmer. He went to talk to the captain about this,
and the captain noted to him that he may have to be left behind if they have to
dive.
He got back to US in September 1945, and he went home in April of 1946.
(1:21:14) In between returning to the United States and his discharge, they had to
decommission the Icefish. To do this, they had to bring it up to total compliment.
This meant that they had to get all of the equipment that belonged on the ship,
even if they didn’t have them during the tour. They decommissioned the boat
right where they tied it up.
(1:25:20) Post-Service
•
•
Right after his discharge, he spent some of his time travelling around the country,
and it took him quite some time, nearly a month, to get home. Arrived home in
May.
Worked at Ford, then played professional baseball for five years. Made it to AAA
Toledo Mud Hens before he retired from baseball. Finally went to college and
worked at one company until he retired.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MasinickJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Masinick, Julius (Bud) (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Masinick, Julis (Bud)
Description
An account of the resource
Bud Masinick was born in Pennsylvania and moved to Detroit, MI during his childhood. After graduating high school, he was drafted into the Navy in 1943. He attended basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station, and attended submarine school in New London, CT. He was then assigned to the USS Icefish, and patrolled the Pacific until the end of the war. After the war, he played professional baseball, making it to the AAA level.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum (Muskegon, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-06-30
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb0f628f7ae6ed5202fae01ef682e3c0.pdf
7a90aed22aad88473c3690a7b0b0bccf
PDF Text
Text
1931
NINETEEN THIRTY ONE
is entitled to such rights and privileges of a MEMBER as are granted
under the By-Laws, Rules and Regulations of tl1e Masonic Country
Club of Western Michigan.
A. E. Davidson
Signature of above member
Secretary
MEMBERS MUST SHOW THIS CARD WHEN REQUESTED.
NOT TRANSFERABLE TO ANY OTHER PERSON.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club
Description
An account of the resource
Scrapbooks of newsclippings, photographs, postcards, and ephemera of the Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club. Photos were taken at regattas on Reeds Lake; the Grand River; Peoria, Illinois; and in Chicago of club members, and events. Historical articles, reports of regatta events, and articles featuring members Charles McQuewan and Jack Corbett are included. Programs include the First Grand Regatta on Great Salt Lake 1888, and Peoria Rowing Festival, and banquet and music programs and the GR Log, a publication of the Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club. Materials from the Central States Amater Rowing Association, and the National Association of Amateur Oarsmen are also included.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1980s to 1940s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/481">Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club scrapbooks, (RHC-54)</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Boats and boating
Racing shells
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-54
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-54_Ephemera-GRRC_E01
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Masonic Country Club of Western Michigan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1931
Title
A name given to the resource
Russell C. Davis Membership Card
Description
An account of the resource
Orange membership card certifying the Russel C. Davis is entitled to the rights and privileges of a member of the Masonic Country Club of Western Michigan, certified by A. E. Davidson, secretary. Davis never signed.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Grand Rapids Rowing Club
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Boats and boating
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/481">Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club scrapbooks (RHC-54)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Publisher
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Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project
Johnson Center for Philanthropy
Grand Valley State University (GVSU)
September 10, 2010
Myron D. Mast, Ph.D.
Professor, Grand Valley State University, School of Public, Health and Nonprofit
Administration
College of Community and Public Service
The Council of Michigan Foundations, Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State
University, and GVSU Libraries’ Special Collections & University Archives present an oral
history interview with Myron D. Mast, September 10, 2010, conducted by Dr. James Smither of
the History Department at GVSU, and recorded at WKTV studio, Wyoming, Michigan. This
interview is part of a series in the Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project documenting the
history of philanthropy in Michigan.
Preferred citation: Researchers wishing to cite this collection should use the following credit
line: Oral history interview with Myron Mast, September 10, 2010. "Michigan Philanthropy Oral
History Project", Johnson Center Philanthropy Archives of the Special Collection & University
Archives, Grand Valley State University Libraries.
James Smither (JS): We are conducting this interview for the Johnson Center for Philanthropy
at Grand Valley State, and the interviewer is Dr. James Smither of the Grand Valley State
University History Department. Professor Mast, can you begin by giving us a little background
on yourself?
Myron “Mike” Mast (MM): Okay. I was born in 1940, a year before Pearl Harbor, in eastern
South Dakota- rural area. I lived there approximately twenty years until I left to go to college.
(JS): What kind of school did you attend out there?
(MM): In elementary school, actually the first three years were in a one-room schoolhouse,
which was cool, two different one-room schoolhouses. Then I began attending a parochial school
in town, two-room school and did that until the eighth grade. And then nine through twelve, my
parents sent me and my older brother to a parochial school about 75 miles away, where we lived
with another family while we were attending school and came home every weekend.
(JS): When did you graduate from high school?
�(MM): I graduated from high school in 1958 at age 17.
(JS): What did you do at that point?
(MM): I started going to South Dakota State University, didn’t know what I wanted to do, but
South Dakota State University was within ten miles of our home. And played a lot of pool and
snooker with a good friend and he ended up getting his college degree there. I dropped out and
took over my older brother’s truck driving job. My older brother left to go to college, so I just
stepped into his position and held that for about two years, drove a truck.
(JS): Alright. What got you out of that?
(MM): Well, it is a little hard to say, but I think I knew that there was really not much future in
eastern South Dakota. You know, farms, small farmers were going out of business. Certainly my
parents encouraged all three of us boys, I was the middle boy, and we had two younger sisters,
but encouraged us to go to college. After my oldest brother went it just seemed easier to go.
Actually, I lived with him and three, four other guys in an apartment when we went to college.
We went to Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, which was our church-related school.
That was kind of the stepping stone to get out of eastern South Dakota.
(JS): What did you major in at that time?
(MM): I majored in Political Science. That was kind of ironic I guess. I really liked history, but
my older brother was majoring in History, and I didn’t want to major in the same subject area
that he did. I had already taken a couple of Poli Sci courses and I liked them, so I majored in
Political Science, got a minor in History. I think ended up taking enough courses for a major as
well, but really had only the declared minor in History and a minor in Economics and a major in
Political Science.
(JS): By the time you graduated, did you have any idea what you wanted to do next?
(MM): Yes. It seemed important to me to go to graduate school because I didn’t want to be a
high school or elementary teacher. I didn’t get a certificate or anything like that. I got a general
bachelor of arts. During my junior year I began dating pretty single-mindedly with the young
lady that I ended up marrying. We both graduated in 1964, she with a teaching degree. She was
from New Mexico. With respect to graduate school, I applied to the University of Colorado in
Boulder, and I applied to the University of Arizona. I was accepted at both places; she was able
to get teaching positions, well I think the one in Arizona came through after she had accepted the
one in Denver. There were a lot of teaching positions available in those days, and she taught
junior high for three years while we lived in Denver and I attended grad school in Boulder. That
was for three years, and then of course this was during the Vietnam era. A lot of young folks
were going to college. And so some prof. came up from Lamar State University, Beaumont,
Texas, knew my mentor, I guess, at University of Colorado and asked if, you know, “Do you
have any good graduate students that could teach for us?” I accepted the job and went down
�there and taught for two years before I got my doctorate. I taught from 1967 through 1969 at
Lamar State University.
(JS): On these college campuses, what sort of atmosphere was there? Were these places where
you had anti-war protests or other things going on? Or were they more quiet than that?
00:05:50
(MM): When I left Colorado in 1967, there wasn’t a lot of activity going on, oddly enough. I
know in my own mind, at that point, I was strenuously against the war. I don’t know that I took
any action or even wrote any letters. When we got to Texas, there it was a little more difficult to
be anti-war. It was a conservative, Bible-belt area, and there were problems. Robert Kennedy
was assassinated, Martin Luther King was killed while we were down there, and those kinds of
things. And we had a child. Our first child was born there. But when I got back to Colorado in
1969, indeed, on campus, yes, we ran into lots of interesting things. One of the interesting things
was that I was a, what was I called, I think a Teaching Assistant or something, and I had a class
of 250 students. And I was working on my doctorate yet at that time, and I was taking the final
two courses that I needed to take to fulfill the degree requirements. I [taught] a class of 250
students with, I think, three or four grad students who were assisting me. I was a grad student. It
was in the fall semester, and it was after Kent State.
(JS): Probably 1970 then.
(MM): Could have been 1970 then by that time. Yeah. Yeah sure it would have been. They [antiwar protesters] called a strike, and the headquarters for the strike was right outside my
classroom. So, needless to say, I didn’t meet classes. I think for a week or more we skipped. I
think some of the profs probably met classes elsewhere, but I didn’t. I didn’t dare to run the
gauntlet. Yeah we got involved in a little bit of it there.
(JS): What were you actually doing your doctoral work on?
(MM): We had to choose a major area, and I chose Public Administration. I did that early on
already in 1964, ‘65. I thought I wanted to go into city management. That was my first intention.
If I had gotten the MPA degree, I would have immediately became eligible for the draft, and
probably been drafted. I was 26 or so, and I didn’t want to go in anymore at that stage. So, I
petitioned the department and I think there were others who did the same thing, if I could work
directly towards a Ph.D. I had decided really I didn’t want to be a city manager anyway. You had
to wear a tie and, you know, dress up all the time. So, they allowed me to work directly towards
a Ph.D. At the time that I went to go teach in Lamar State University in Beaumont, Texas, I was
working directly on a Ph.D. I had passed my comps, my Ph.D. comps by the time I got down
there. But I had to finish two courses yet when I came back in 1969, and of course I had to do the
dissertation.
(JS): What was that on?
�(MM): My dissertation was on planning and zoning. I can’t remember the title, but looking at
four models to explain planning and zoning decisions. I looked at legal model, a planning or
professional model, a political model, and an economic model. I used questionnaires that I
passed around to three different kinds of communities. The Planning Commission members
mostly were the ones who responded and City Council members as well.
(JS): What range of area were you doing that across? Were you doing them just locally? Or did
you send them out to other parts of the country?
00:10:13
(MM): No, it was just Colorado. Boulder was considered to be my university town, you know,
rapidly growing and so on. Then I went to one suburb, which is now called, I think it was called
Westminster at that time, and it was a new residential suburb primarily. And then Pueblo,
Colorado was an old established, well it wasn’t decaying, but it was certainly an old, established
community. I was interested to see if there were different kinds of attitudes affecting decisions at
that time. It was an interesting project. I did try to send parts of it off to get published, and gave
up after a while. You know, just thought, “Well, it got me my Ph.D. That’s what I wanted.”
(JS): When did you finish that?
(MM): I intended to have it finished [by] the fall of ’71, at which time I was scheduled to go
teach at Ball State University. I had accepted a position there, but I caught the mumps. I didn’t
know that I hadn’t had them as a child. I caught the mumps and for about two months I was
unable to do anything practically. I went to teach at Ball State, fall of ’71, and I finished the
dissertation in the spring of ’72 and defended it at Colorado.
(JS): Were you teaching Political Science there?
(MM): Political Science. I was in the Political Science department. I don’t believe I taught any
Political Science, American Government or anything like that. I taught Metropolitan Politics and
courses like that, but I taught mostly Public Administration at Ball State University.
00:12:08
(JS): How long did you stay there?
(MM): I stayed there for four years and was making satisfactory progress towards tenure, but my
wife’s relatives were in Grand Rapids. At any rate, in ’75 I was hired by Grand Valley and so got
a promotion from Assistant Professor to Associate. I thought that was a nice, easy way to do it.
Grand Valley’s salary structure and summer time opportunities and so on was a little bit better.
We had two children by that time. My wife had a good job in Ball State in Indiana outside of
Muncie. She was teaching in a high school, and was never able really to get back into teaching
after we got into Grand Rapids because by ’75, ’76, certainly the year after we got here, the job
market was just terrible for teachers.
�(JS): What was Grand Valley like at the time you got there?
(MM): It was confusing. It was a different kind of university structure then, although, I was still
a novice. I had only been in universities for six years. Grand Valley was a cluster college, and I
went into the College of Arts and Sciences, the main one, and then there were the other three or
four. It was kind of interesting. It didn’t take me long to really feel that I fit in. There were
fantastic opportunities to get to know people, people in the community. We had a lot of adults in
classes because of various federal programs. I taught in what was called the School of Public
Service. Even though Public Administration was my area, I had a lot of Criminal Justice students
in some of my classes. They were in-service people for the most part, going back to school on I
guess it was called the Safe Streets Act. Their tuition, book expenses and so forth was all paid by
the government. It was a bit intimidating to come into a classroom and know that any one of
them could arrest me [laughs]. You know. And corrections people too we had in class. So, it was
fascinating.
(JS): Were you teaching essentially Public Administration at that stage?
00:15:07
(MM): Yes. I taught one class, Research Methods that was used by all the students in the School
of Public Service, which included Legal Studies majors and Criminal Justice and Public
Administration. For a while, I taught another senior-level class that was used by all of the
majors, but for the most part I taught Public Administration. Yeah. And then of course, in, what
was it 1981, ’82 I believe we began to reorganize and, well, there were just lots of different
things that happened then. I no longer taught much for Criminal Justice, although I ran our
internship program when another fellow retired. That must have been about 1978 or thereabouts.
I ran the internship program then until 2004, and that was just a super experience, you know.
(JS): What kinds of places were you sending interns to?
(MM): Well, initially from 1978 until I think about 1989, I had Criminal Justice, Public
Administration, and Legal Studies interns. So, Criminal Justice students, a lot of them would go
intern at state prisons, Kent County Jail, Allegan County Jail, etc. Police students would intern
with state police or city police. There was a cadet program going on I think with the Grand
Rapids Police Department, and students would work the front desk and that kind of thing. Public
Administration students would go into working with city managers and other governmental
positions. We had pretty good arrangements with a couple of federal offices, the Department of
Agriculture office. We had a student there, you know, subsequent students there over a period of
four, five years. Legal Studies students would go to work in law offices or for the Legal Aid
Society, that kind of thing.
00:17:30
(JS): Over the course of that next decade or so, did you get involved much by way of larger
research projects or grants or other things like that? Or take fellowships anywhere or anything?
�(MM): No. While I was at Ball State, I had a National Science Foundation Grant to study at the
University of Minnesota one summer, and the emphasis there was Public Policy and Public
Policy Analysis, which was a new development that was coming into Political Science at that
time. It was a marvelous opportunity, although, I was supposed to learn statistics there that
summer and I did not [laughs] - terrible teacher. But anyway, at least I blamed it on, well the
other faculty members that were at that fellowship thing also complained about the stat. prof. But
we had a lot of economics and systematic thinking, that type of stuff. So that was a very good
experience. From 1975, no I had no grants, no, did I? At Grand Valley, I had a sabbatical in
1981, and I had a sabbatical in 1980…
(JS): Probably 1989…
(MM): 1989. Yup, and another sabbatical in 1997 or so. That was about it. I didn’t, it just
seemed like we were inundated from 1982 on with program development and students. Already
in 1975 when I came to Grand Valley, the real important thing, I mean, we stressed good
teaching. We stressed scholarship and all that. The overwhelming thing that we had to
concentrate on was growth: recruit students, help them get through, you know, advise them, get
them placed in internships and that kind of stuff. So we spent a lot of time on student [matters].
(JS): And at that time, the standard teaching load would have been twelve hours.
(MM): Oh yeah. [But I had released time as Acting Director of the School for Public Service,
1977-1980. And I coordinated public administration programs from 1982-1987].
00:20:01
(JS): So you’re really a full-time teacher primarily and that’s what your job is essentially.
(MM): Oh yeah, absolutely, all the way through really. It wasn’t until the mid to late ’90s that
my teaching load began to get to the point where I should have been able to do more research.
Not that I did, but I should have been able to do a lot more. Yeah.
(JS): One of the things that happened at Grand Valley over the course of the time you’ve spent
here is that the programs have developed that are connected to public administration and
nonprofit studies, philanthropy, and the Johnson Center itself. What sort of relationship have you
had with some of those different branches as they have developed?
(MM): Well, let’s see. From 1975 till 1985, ’86 I can truthfully say there was no thought in my
mind of teaching nonprofit or developing a nonprofit program or anything like that. But, I had to
come up with a sabbatical proposal a year before I actually could take my sabbatical, and I don’t
remember what my sabbatical proposal was, but it had to do with budgeting. I modified it, you
know, at some point, and directed it towards budgeting in nonprofit organizations. By the time I
took my sabbatical in 1989, it was perfectly obvious to me that this evolving and developing area
of Nonprofit Studies was very important, and that it was not just an opportunity for Public
Administration as an area of study to encompass nonprofits, but that it was appropriate that it do
�so because public and nonprofit, I think, go together much more closely than nonprofit and
business, or so it seemed at the time. I think it is still true.
There were stirrings in academia in the late 1980s, there was a conference called and I didn’t get
word of it because we weren’t members of the National Association of Schools of Public
Administration and Public Affairs. There was no such thing as accreditation in those days, but
we had this national organization that we could have been members of, and [because of the cost]
we were not. So, I wasn’t on their mailing list. Well, there was a conference of some sort held in
the Chicago area, and I later on got material from it. That’s where they began talking about
Public Administration as an area of study within Public Administration programs.
(JS): Nonprofit as an area within…
(MM): Yeah, Nonprofit as an area of study within Public Administration programs.
00:23:13
(JS): From there did you go and actually begin to develop a single course or a program?
(MM): Yes. We hired a new faculty member to be, well, we went through another reorganization
at Grand Valley and we became a School of Public Administration in the fall of 1990. But,
already in 1989, we were almost functioning as a separate administrative unit. We hired Eleanor
French who was a perky, older woman, but boy she was sharp and she knew what we wanted to
do and what we needed to do. She had excellent contacts in the outside world with both
Nonprofit and Health Administration. She was able to work better with upper-level
administrators at Grand Valley than what I had ever been able to do. She joined our department
in 1989, and I was on sabbatical and she was beginning to run the department. We had no
records, and I mean it was just a disaster. So, I would meet with her, usually for a martini or
something on a Friday during my sabbatical. We would talk about what had transpired so far and
where we should go, and I think she got a lot from those meetings as to what had been going on.
By the end of fall 1989 I felt prepared to begin developing a course, and the question in our
minds was, do we want to start this on the graduate level? On the undergraduate level? Or what?
Eleanor, meanwhile, was working with people in the administration, John Gracki, Dean Travis,
and working with the Kellogg Center already beginning in the fall of 1989. Certainly by 1990
she was well on her way, writing for a grant, and in order to get this grant we had to have some
kind of curriculum in place or at least ready to be in place. I checked just today to see you know,
when did I do this? I wrote up three courses: one of which was called Nonprofit Organizations,
another one Nonprofit Management and Policy, and I don’t remember the name of the third one
now. At any rate, we had three courses that were going through the curriculum committee at the
time that she was writing for the grant. I got to teach the first one in the fall of 1990. The really
interesting, I mean there are several interesting things about this all. Nonprofits have been around
for forever in the United States, but nobody had written much about them. There was an article
about Andrew Carnegie or something about giving away your money, you know, and that was
part of what we studied. But, I had to have a bibliography with each one of these courses that I
proposed. It was hard to come up with half a dozen books that related there to, and a few articles.
�While I was on sabbatical, I attended a conference on nonprofits in Seattle, and met some people
there. That was very helpful. Somebody from the New Social…
(JS): New School.
(MM): New School, there we go, in New York City, and Carnegie Mellon, Mellon, Carnegie
Mellon, yeah. That’s in Cleveland, right?
(JS): Pittsburg.
(MM): Pittsburg…Oh. What’s in Cleveland then?
(JS): Case Western.
(MM): Hmm. Well, it was one of those. Somebody from the University of San Francisco, is that
a private school?
(JS): Yes.
00:28:01
(MM): I spent some time with each of them or attended their sessions and talked with them and
got a lot of good ideas. It was a small conference; there weren’t very many people there. It was
apparent to me that this was an area that was really going to go gangbusters because, well, this
was the time President George H.W. Bush talked about a thousand points of light. It was
apparent what was happening in the field of public administration, and I mean it was pure,
perfectly apparent that public administration was contracting out more and more governmental
functions to nonprofits, and that it was working fine. This was a great thing.
(JS): What proportion of your teaching over the next decade or so got directed toward nonprofit
rather than public administration generally?
00:29:00
(MM): Well, really by the mid ’90s, I was hardly involved with nonprofits anymore other than,
when we wrote the grant, the grant was funded for a million dollars I believe. Eleanor didn’t get
as much credit as she was due, but we loved her for it, at least those of us who knew. The grant
called for four different things. One was for a degree emphasis at least in the graduate program
with courses. Second was for philanthropy and nonprofit as an area of study to be infused in
other courses, much as we would do with ethics or something like that, that it would just kind of
be part of the general area of study. Third, the grant was to set up a center for the study of
nonprofits. The Center for the Study of Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership is actually what it
was called. The fourth thing had to do with the community somehow. I can’t recall how. That
didn’t affect me as a faculty member. But, as a faculty member, even though by 1996 or so I no
longer taught anything purely nonprofit, it was a part of all my courses and it was a part of all
�our thinking, and advising students, placing them for internships in nonprofit organizations. It
was just a booming area.
(JS): As the Johnson Center, what became the Johnson Center for Philanthropy was getting set
up, what connection did you have with that, or were you helping with the grant writing process
or implementation of it?
(MM): I really didn’t help with the grant writing process other than to develop those three
courses for Eleanor. I may have provided some other information, but I don’t recall a lot. We
hired a new faculty member who I think had more nonprofit experience than I did. I had been
involved in Boy Scouts and YMCA type programs, and I was on a board of a nonprofit
organization in Grand Rapids at that time. But, otherwise, I had not done a lot of nonprofit type
of work. I had read some books [laughs]; book learning. But, I think Eleanor in writing the grant
worked with the Kellogg Foundation, and I think the two of them more than anything, decided
the boundaries and the emphases of this grant, what we should try to do. Out of that came these
four different things. I don’t think anyone was necessarily in the driver’s seat on that, although
perhaps Kellogg was more than anything else because Joel Orosz was at Kellogg Foundation at
that time. [He later joined GVSU.] I asked him to serve on a panel at a conference in Lansing
and he came and I met him and we talked. So I had some contact, but we didn’t really work
together on the grant at all. I’m sure he worked with Eleanor.
00:33:12
(JS): Once we get to the mid ’90s and beyond, what has really been your area of focus in
teaching and work since then?
(MM): Since the mid ’90s, I’ve taught always the “bread and butter” course of Research
Methods. Already back in the 1980s, we had made Research Methods in the Social Sciences into
a cross-disciplinary course. I would have History majors in there who were getting a B.S.,
Communication majors, people from Soc, Psych, everywhere. I would always teach Research
Methods, that was more than a fourth of my teaching load. Another fourth of my teaching load
was always the internship program. I taught Human Resource Management on the undergraduate
level. I’ve been teaching that for [35] years I guess. For a while, we had no one to teach
Budgeting. We had an adjunct teaching Budgeting. I knew that she didn’t want to do it much
anymore, so I sat in the class with her. I asked her if I could visit the class. Of course I had taken
a Budgeting class you know, in grad school. So, I sat in the class and decided, you know, I could
do this [laughs]. So I taught Budgeting for a while. I’m not sure I did a very good job but, you
know, you step in if you have to. But I only taught the Nonprofit Organization twice. I taught it
the first time, had fifteen students in it. People who were, I mean I could’ve just let them talk all
night. I didn’t have to say much of anything. I didn’t really lecture very much at all. We had
presentations and material. I remember Barb Van’t Hof, for example, who just recently passed
away. She was very active in nonprofit work in the community. She was in that class and
eventually got her Master’s Degree with us. But there were a lot of others who knew more of the
practical aspects of nonprofit organizations than I did.
�(JS): So you had basically a class that had people already involved in this kind of work in one
way or another?
00:35:43
(MM): Yes. Yes. One of the younger students worked for the Lutheran Social Services
Organization I think it’s called; something like that. Yeah, there were a couple of police officers
who were involved in parochial education with their children and served on school boards and
things like that.
(JS): And you taught it a second time? How much later?
(MM): I taught it a second time, and it did not enroll as well. I guess it was in the winter
semester. I don’t know what the deal was, but we only had about six people. One of the students
was extremely knowledgeable and willing to contribute above and beyond, so it wasn’t a boring
semester for me. I mean, it turned out to be very good. But, I felt that I was just stretching myself
too thin. We hired Mike Payne, we hired Donna VanIwaarden, and these were people who could
teach in that area, [and] didn’t want to teach in some of the areas that I had been teaching in. So,
I just kind of let it go. Plus, we hired Thom Jeavons, I think whom you know, and I guess he
must have taught a course for us each semester I think in addition to his other duties with what
came to be called the Johnson Center.
00:37:16
(JS): Over the course of the time that you spent at Grand Valley, how would you characterize
how the school has changed?
(MM): We’re much bigger [laughs]! We’re much better. Certainly the faculty is, we’ve got a
bunch of bright people on the faculty that I associate with daily. I’m very impressed, almost
intimidated, really good people. And our students are so bright. My goodness. Not that we didn’t
have bright students back then, but we certainly had some very marginal students as well who
had a hard time making it.
(JS): Because some of the kinds of things that you teach, you are really in a position to feel a
little bit of the pulse of what kind of undergraduates go through and see the traditional students
as well as the nontraditional ones that you might get in Public Administration. So, you do have
something to measure them by if you are teaching the kind of the course that an awful lot of
people take. You’ll see that.
(MM): Yeah. I think particularly, I guess Research Methods because Social Science Research
Methods involves some statistical analysis and some methodology and it was kind of a foreign
course to a lot of, particularly the older students. I had a lot of police officers particularly, “What
do I have to take this for?” [laughs] So, I would try to make it relevant to their interests and their
needs. When I started teaching that in 1975; there was nothing I could adopt for a good text
book. I think the first Criminal Justice Research Methods book, and it was also applicable to
Public Administration, came out finally about 1980. If I had had my sabbatical earlier, I could
�have written it [laughs], but, well I wouldn’t have done as well. It was a good book. That was a
challenging and hard course to teach. I don’t teach it much anymore because we’ve reorganized
and we now have a PA Research Methods class that’s taught by another faculty member.
Students are generally smarter. By the time they take this Research Methods class they’ve had
Statistics. And of course, we have the technology. We have a statistical program that we can use
in class that they’ve used in their stats class. So we can cover just a whole lot more material and
make it a more meaningful class, I think. Things have really changed since the mimeograph days
[laughs] it seems like. Wow!
00:40:30
(JS): What do you think have been the biggest problems that have accompanied the growth? I
mean, I got to Grand Valley in 1990, and they had eleven thousand students and that was a lot
more than a decade earlier. Now we are at twenty five or something like that. What problems
have you seen come up during the course of that time?
(MM): Well, when I got there in 1975, the initial controversy was, do we want to have any
graduate programs? There was the Seidman Graduate School of Business because it had been
endowed. That was okay, but do we want to have any other graduate programs? Well, starting
just after I got there, a couple of graduate programs in Education, and that kind of opened the
floodgate I guess. And so, even the hardcore liberal arts, undergraduate emphasis type of people
who were afraid of losing money, status, etc., began to realize that probably graduate education
was an okay sort of thing. But, it really wasn’t until the mid ’80s and ’90s that we really got
going with graduate education.
Another major problem that I think Grand Valley faced was that we were a commuter school out
15 miles from Grand Rapids. Not much housing on campus at that time, very little; just the
dorms and the Ravines. We began teaching off campus in Muskegon at Muskegon Community
College and downtown Grand Rapids, Union High School; wherever we could find rooms to
teach in, we would teach some classes. I supported that idea. I thought that was a good idea.
Then in the mid 1980s we got land next to the Grand River and built the Eberhard Center which
opened in 1987. Well that was our foot print in Grand Rapids, and I was confident that we were
going to be able to grow and prosper as a two campus university. I knew there were things that
had to be ground out yet as to who should be down here and who should be out there, you know,
but… like in 1987 when we started when the Eberhard Center opened up. In 1990 the Public
Administration programs moved downtown into rental quarters, 25 Commerce. Western
Michigan University’s master’s program in Public Administration program was just mopping up
the whole area of western Michigan. Now, it’s all us. You know, it took ten, fifteen years, but we
hired good people, good faculty. Boy!
(JS): So how large has the Public Administration program become?
(MM): I think we have about 250 graduate students. They’re not full time, all of them of course,
but 250 graduate students, which was an unheard of figure to me because I remember the Dean
asking me one time, this would have been 1985 or ’86 just after I had taken over the graduate
program. I had coordinated it for about seven, eight years there. “How big do you see this
�getting? Where do you see it going?” “Oh,” I said, “I think we’ll probably top out at 60 or 70.
That’s about, that’s a good sized graduate program in Public Administration nowadays.” Well, it
was in the ’80s, but [not now anymore]. He didn’t like my answer then either [laughs], and of
course I was wrong. We really did grow way beyond, but we hired additional faculty too and that
helped us to grow. We have about 250 graduate students and we have about, I would guess
around 150 undergraduate majors.
(JS): Is it generally less common to be doing that kind of thing as an undergraduate major?
(MM): Yes. There are about a hundred schools in the country that offer an undergraduate major
in Public Administration, and there are a lot more than that that offer graduate degrees in Public
Administration. MPA, the master program, or the master’s degree, is really considered entry
level into professional work. But, I think the undergraduate degree has helped us serve the
interests of a lot of people who wanted to get into the nonprofit world and couldn’t quite see
themselves going on for a master’s degree, either for monetary reasons or they felt it was too
challenging or whatever. They would get a bachelor’s degree and do fine in the nonprofit, in
many of the smaller nonprofit agencies as event planners, fundraisers, and things like that.
(JS): To look back over your teaching career and your time at Grand Valley, is there a particular
aspect that you enjoyed most or are most proud of?
00:46:04
(MM): Oh, let’s see. I think it was difficult to let go of things as we grew. Obviously, you know,
there came a point when I had to absolutely sever myself from any contact with Criminal Justice
students or Criminal Justice practitioners really because there just wasn’t time. I mean, there
were too many people. That was difficult to do. And, the Legal Studies program in the mid ’80s
just had no one to run it, so I tried to kind of keep it going. We had part time instructors. I wasn’t
the coordinator of it or anything like that, but I know that I helped it stay alive. Now, we have
excellent faculty, you know, it’s an excellent program, it’s accredited by the American Bar
Association, all this kind of stuff. Things have just, just boomed. But, the difficulty I suppose
along the way always was you know, you had to [let go]. Okay like in nonprofits, here I got
involved in nonprofit study, taught a couple classes then realized, “I can’t spread myself that
thin.” And we had others, Thom Jeavons and so on, who came along, and that was their interest
and that was their expertise. Well, let them do it then. It was great. It was, it was fun.
(JS): So you had what was, eventually became three or four different jobs.
(MM): Sort of, yeah. Oh man. Yeah. It was pretty rough and tumbled. I came here into a faculty
of five, five people. I was the sixth, and that first year, I had never run into anything like it that
was so much acrimony. There were the two older folks, and then there were the two younger
folks, and then there was me and Bob, an older guy who tried to, you know, keep them from at
each others’ throats. It was not a fun time. I mean, it was challenging in a way, so I suppose it
was fun in that sense, but I lost some sleep over it I know that.
(JS): Did the dynamic change as you brought in more people or people retired?
�(MM): What happened is one of the persons, took a two year leave of absence, and that helped.
Then another retired. I think he was encouraged to retire. But personal relationships-wise, there’s
always controversies in small groups, even in medium-sized groups. But I’ve had, in my opinion
anyway, excellent relationships with my colleagues since 1980, thereabouts. I’ve had, you know
when I think about it some [excellent colleagues], Jim Walker was a Criminal Justice prof. that I
was instrumental in helping to hire in 1977, he tragically died I guess it must be seven, eight
years ago now. Good guy, you know, you could just talk to him about anything, anytime and he
didn’t feel threatened. He didn’t threaten me I guess, and we just always got along well. And
then my favorite colleague, I suppose was Bob Clark, who is now deceased. He retired probably
14 years ago. He would be well into his eighties by now. Just really a nice guy, an Irishman from
Chicago you know; had good times. He taught in the Political Science Department but came into
the Public Administration program when we reorganized in the early ’80s. So, I got to know him
then. We worked together well.
(JS): Now at this stage of your career you’ve kind of moved towards the phased retirement
business or what are you doing now?
00:51:48
(MM): Yes. I’m in my fifth year of phased retirement. When I asked for phased retirement I was
eligible for Social Security and I thought, “Well, I’ll ask for five years.” That’s what I thought
the growing rate was. I guess it was. There were others that were asking for five years and got
five years. So I asked for five and they gave me five. I didn’t think I would use five, but you
know the economy kind of went in the drink. My 401(k) took some hits, and I’ve been healthy
and I guess I still am enjoying it. I’m finding it harder to learn people’s names, students
[laughter]. I can’t… I don’t know. I’m having a hard time with that. Always in the past, I would
know everyone’s name by the third week of school maybe, maybe the fourth. It was a thing that
came [easily], but this will be my last year. I intend to try to retire. I’m kind of looking forward
to it. I think I’ve done this long enough.
(JS): Do you have an idea with what you’d like to do with the extra time once you’ve got it?
(MM): Well, yeah. I’ve got a lot of books I’d like to read. We have one son here with two
grandchildren that are in their teens now, and so who knows, in another ten years if I’m still
living I’ll have great-grandchildren probably. And then we have a son in Austin, Texas. He and
his family have two little ones. So, what we’re starting to do, starting last year and the year
before I guess already, is to spend some time down there in the winter. We finally bought an
inexpensive condo down there and are renting out part of it. We can live in part of it when we’re
down there. So far that’s working out okay. It’s hard to run rental property that’s twelve-hundred
miles away. It’s been working out okay. I guess I don’t plan to do a lot of traveling. I would like
to explore my home state more, South Dakota. I’d like to explore Michigan more. I don’t feel
that I’ve been around enough. When I grew up in South Dakota, I grew up in the East River part
of South Dakota, and the West River part is just west of the Missouri River and is just a
completely different state. I just would like to know more about it I guess. Michigan, I’ve never
been to Houghton or, I’ve been to Sault Ste Marie, but I haven’t been around as much as I’d like.
�So, that kind of traveling and in Texas we’d like to do some traveling. New Orleans, I’d like to
go there again, but I don’t think Europe. While I was teaching at Ball State University I had a
chance to teach in Europe at Air Force bases. Ball State had a contract with the U.S. Air Force,
so we spent six months in Germany, two different locations. I taught graduate classes to Air
Force Officers. You know Monday and Tuesday and Thursday nights we would teach or
something like that. And then Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, man we’d pile in the car and go
here, there, everywhere. Over the 4th of July we were in Paris which is, you know, a matter of a
few hours drive from where we were and everything’s close. And that was fun. That was really,
we had a good time. Ran out of money, of course, we never got to Rome [laughs]. We got into
Italy quite a ways, got to Florence and Pisa and so on. And then, while I’ve been at Grand
Valley, I kind of inherited from another faculty member a program that involved graduate
students shadowing sort of, their English counterparts in Bristol at Bristol University. It was with
Bristol University and they set up the contacts that we made. We would go there and we would
live for a couple weeks in Bristol. And I did that one year. My wife came with me and we spent a
week in London and you know, marvelous. I wouldn’t mind going back to England again, I
guess, that would be fun. It gets to be expensive to do that kind of travelling and I don’t know
that we’re going to have that much money. We’ll see.
00:56:46
(JS): So much for the 401(k)….
(MM): You know, it just depends.
(JS): Before we close out the interview, are there other particular things that stand out in your
mind about your career, your time at Grand Valley that you haven’t brought in here yet?
(MM): I think we need to say a couple more things about the philanthropy and nonprofit study
because I mean the grant, of course, that Eleanor got in 1990 or 1991 was certainly the impetus
for it, but Thom Jeavons only stayed, I think, a couple of years and then left. And then we hired
Dott, Dott somebody, Dorothy [Freeman] somebody, can’t come up with her last name now. And
she was good too, but only stayed a couple of years. Well, with that kind of, we were still feeling
our way. It really took off, I guess, with Donna VanIwaarden, who was our faculty member in
Health. And I remember being kind of perturbed, you know, “Gee Donna, we need you to teach
Health. How come you’re gonna do that?” She was just so remarkably effective at it, in my
opinion. She, I don’t know when she took over as director of the, what we call the Center for
Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership. She must’ve taken over maybe in 1996 or 7 or 8,
something like that. She got the grant renewed, got another grant, got a couple grants, I think.
And by that time also, Dorothy Johnson was getting interested in our program. She probably had
been involved in it earlier, I just wasn’t aware of it. Her involvement and Donna VanIwaarden,
and you know, by the time we moved into the DeVos Center in 2000, we were a respectable
Center for the study of philanthropy and nonprofit leadership. You know we didn’t, we weren’t
in the same league quite yet with University of Indiana or Arizona State, but, we eventually got
into that league too I guess, or so it seems now. Dorothy Johnson certainly was a big push. And
in general, well I know we’ve gotten some grants from other sources. And Margaret SellersWalker, who also taught in our program, was very much interested in nonprofits, had been active
�in nonprofit work, and even though she was a faculty member in Public Administration, she was
much involved with the Johnson Center. And just respected people from the community began to
pay attention to us. We began to have more interactions of that sort. It just boomed. Now did,
Kathy take over when Donna...? Yeah, Kathy took over from Donna.
01:00:24
(JS): Do you see this as an area where there’s still more room for growth and development?
(MM): Well, they’ve gone in directions that I’ve never even thought about. I mean, that shows
you how much attention I’ve paid to it. They’ve really, for example, they, I think Joel Orosz
began this teaching grantmakers how to make grants. You know how to evaluate grant requests
and things like that, a Grantmaking School. Well, that’s nationwide as far as I know. And Joel
had to kind of had to step off due to health concerns. But that’s one big thing that has gotten us a
lot of attention. We also got involved with American Humanics [now called Nonprofit
Leadership Alliance] and that was funded initially by the Johnson Center. Let’s see, when did we
start American Humanics at Grand Valley? I guess about 2003 probably, 2002.
01:01:09
(JS): And what is American Humanics?
(MM): Let me tell what American Humanics is. American Humanics was developed by several
large nonprofit organizations. The leaders of these nonprofit organizations got together: Boy
Scouts, Girl Scouts, YMCA, and things like that, America Cancer Society, Red Cross, and so
forth. Got around the table and said, “What do people need to know, coming out of college to
come to work for our kinds of organizations? They should know…” They more or less set out a
curriculum. And it was called the American Humanics curriculum. And they do not give a
certificate or a degree or anything like that, but they recognize a program as being affiliated with
American Humanics. They, it costs thousands of dollars per year, I think, to belong to that
organization. And students come out then with at least, it’s not on their transcript, but they
certainly have some sort of a certificate saying that they’ve taken the appropriate number of
courses.
When we joined American Humanics with money from Kellogg to do this, we hired a young
woman from Denver who worked with us for a couple years and did a good job, but left when
her husband had an opportunity in Colorado to go back. Then we hired Quincy Williams, who’s
just been dynamite for us. Quincy worked with American Humanics in their headquarters in
Kansas City. Some, I think, some family connection helped bring him to us. He’s now our
American Humanics man. Gee, you know, that’s been a big boon on campus because it’s not
public administration, it’s the entire campus. Anybody can major in anything and take a select
series of, I don’t know, five or six courses, and do an internship and attend a national conference
and that’s it. You’ve got your American Humanics. It’s garnered a lot of attention, I think, for
the study of nonprofits, and for philanthropy in general. So I think that’s a development that a
colleague of mine, Martha Golensky, who’s now retired for some time, she and I went to a
conference in Kansas City to explore whether we ought to join American Humanics and we
�came back and said, “Yes, we ought to join.” This was probably, I don’t know, 1990 or
something. Of course, there was no money to join at that time. We didn’t, but we knew about the
American Humanics program for a long time. That’s been a real good way to instill the study of
philanthropy and nonprofits into a wider range of students at Grand Valley. So that’s been kind
of surprising to me.
I think the community, CRI, Community Research Institute, is that what it’s called? Gustavo
[Rotondaro] is involved in that. I’ve looked at some of the data that they collect and it’s
fascinating, it’s just marvelous to look and play around with that. They do other kinds of things.
Let’s see, what else do they do? I know that we have some kind of tripartite agreement with
Arizona State and Indiana University and Grand Valley where we have exchanges of scholars
and I believe there’s an opportunity for people from Grand Valley to, for example, get a Ph.D. by
not being on campus all the time at Indiana University. It’s really been quite an honor for Grand
Valley to be in that league I think. And I think we belong in that league. Indiana University was
ahead of us a little bit. And that’s kind of one of the interesting things I think about the study of
philanthropy and nonprofits. It’s wholly appropriate that Indiana University be the, one of the
leading lights in this area. Because I taught at Ball State for four years in Indiana, and the whole
political culture is very citizen-oriented, very civic involvement, spoil system also, but anyway,
citizen involvement in public affairs. And that’s where the nonprofit area of study and public
administration kind of married up. Under those terms, you know that we’re both involved in
public affairs. One is a little more altruistic; the other is a little more mechanistic, maybe, a little
more efficiency administrative in orientation. But we’re all involved in the same game. So, it’s
been exciting to see the evolution of things the way they’ve gone. Fantastic. Been a great career,
can’t believe it, can’t believe it.
01:07:36
(JS): Time moves fast sometimes.
(MM): I guess so, I guess so. I was looking at some old papers today, just kind of to refresh my
memory as to how we started this in the late ’80s, early ’90s. There were a couple of memos that
I wrote that were pretty…exclamation points [laughs]. I don’t know, I guess I must have, you
know, had some strong feelings about various things. I certainly have always felt that there’s a
certain amount of ideological, what, discomfort between public administration and nonprofit.
Part of the underlying theory, I think, of philanthropy is to keep government smaller, diminish
the need for government a bit and allow civic and citizen involvement. I think that’s appropriate.
But it does kind of cause sparks once in a while when either one side or the other side pushes too
hard.
So I need to finish out this semester and be around for a few events next semester. I won’t be
teaching next semester because I’m teaching full time this semester. That will be my half time
work completed at the end of April. I guess I will clean out my office and throw away a lot of
things that I don’t have room for at home really and don’t really want to keep anymore
[laughter]. Some of these things, you don’t want to let go of. You really want to, kind of live it
over again. Although some of the stuff, I’m glad to get rid of.
�(JS): Thank you for taking the time to come in and talk to me and tell me about it.
(MM): Thank you for giving me a chance to roll on. I hope I made some sense. I think, you
know, we’re in a good place for philanthropy and nonprofits really in western Michigan because,
I didn’t mention that, but you know we’ve just benefited enormously from philanthropy, local
philanthropy. I mean, the DeVoses could have given their money, you know, anywhere. The
Amway folks, this is their community, and it still is. I mean, third generation. That’s marvelous. I
mean, that’s been a real boon for the Grand Rapids area, the whole west Michigan area. So, I
hope they, I hope this kind of thing continues, because I don’t have that kind of money to give
around, but I can benefit from it, you know. We all benefit from it.
(JS): We can teach the people who work for them to it better.
(MM): Yes. Okay, thank you.
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/35166eb55c8139712c966ef7e6fff87a.mp4
ce1a851cd49edf8e4527d2184f385e0e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Interviews
Subject
The topic of the resource
Philanthropy and society--Personal narratives
Family foundations--Michigan
Charities--Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
The Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) was initiated in 2006 as an innovative partnership between the Council of Michigan Foundations, StoryCorps, Michigan Radio and the Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership at Grand Valley State University to create an oral history of Michigan philanthropy. Additional video interviews were created by the Johnson Center for Philanthropy to add to the depth and breadth of the collection.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) (JCPA-08). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-02
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
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Sound
Text
Moving Image
Language
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eng
Type
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
video/mp4
Identifier
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JCPA-08
Coverage
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2006-2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Johnson Center for Philantrhopy
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
StoryCorps (Project)
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (JCPA-08)</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Mast, Myron D. video interview and transcript
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mast, Myron D.
Description
An account of the resource
Myron "Mike" Mast, Ph.D., discusses his early life and education in South Dakota, his move to Grand Rapids to attend Calvin College, and his graduate work at the University of Colorado. He discusses the development of public administration as a field of study at Grand Valley State University, the role of faculty in shaping the School of Public and Nonprofit Administration, development of the nonprofit curriculum and the Johnson Center for Philanthropy, and his plans for life after retirement.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership, Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Philanthropy and society
Personal narratives
Charities
Michigan
Associations, institutions, etc.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
JCPA-08_MastM
Language
A language of the resource
eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Relation
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Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-09-10
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/40df11e52ae38a937fb8bd10b22b7fcd.mp4
d337b167f84ffc947a74a6dd53dc7863
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9d90bf10bb67539df7b2e68325294edc.pdf
b16643f646dcdd8f50e22d162a723fb8
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Warren Mastenbrook
(00:25:00)
Introduction (00:23)
Family and Pre-enlistment (00:27)
•
Born in 1923 in Grand Haven, MI. Mastenbrook grew up with 3 brothers.
•
His father ran a filling station and was a veteran of World War I and received
the Purple Heart. Also his mother was a school teacher. During the Depression
his father did all right. (01:24)
•
Didn’t graduate high school in 1941 because he lacked ½ credits.
Mastenbrook was 18 in June, 1941 and after working the summer decided to
join the Marine Corps because he didn’t want to go back to school.
Enlistment and Training (03:03)
•
Was sent to Parris Island where he underwent basic training in September
1941. Following that he was stationed at Quantico, VA. He was on his way to
Chicago when Pearl Harbor was bombed. (03:03) Served 6 months training as
a mechanic and then 6 months of aircraft training at Navy Pier in Chicago.
Combat Experiences (04:38)
•
Afterwards, he boarded a train for San Diego, CA, from where he was shipped
to Hawaii. Served as crew chief for a F4F Wildcat carrier-based fighter plane
with his BMF-211 outfit. Mentions various places marines were sent to:
Wake Is., Midway, and Honolulu, Hawaii where he was stationed. In
Honolulu, he joined up with his outfit and went 1000 miles west to
Kolombangara, an island in the Solomons which was significant because it
had an airport on it.
•
Mastenbrook briefly mentions that Pan Am at the time was trying to build a
hotel on Kolombangara, an island shaped like a horseshoe. (05:38)
Afterwards, he returned to Honolulu, Hawaii they were outfitted with a new
Corsair aircraft. They stayed there for training.
•
From there they went to Espiritu Santu and Guadalcanal but didn’t stay long.
They went from there to Bougainville where the Japanese made a stand. The
Japanese had a big base there. (07:24) Mentions the bombing runs that went
on there morning and afternoons. Gives a brief description of the American
�and Japanese positions on the island. Mentions that Japanese Zeros would
often counterattack making it difficult to position their aircraft. After a while,
they got off the island because of continual Japanese attacks.
•
Mastenbrook briefly mentions the fighting on Green Island, northwest of
Rabaul. (08:57) At this point, the Japanese had no planes. Mastenbrook
briefly describes his crew and a certain Colonel Lindberg. (11:22)
•
Mentions shooting down 26 airplanes [context not clear here, since he was not
a pilot] during the course of the war. Also, mentions losing an engine once
and having to fly back to Guadalcanal.
Going Home (12:29)
•
Afterwards, Mastenbrook mentions that he was sent back via a new Liberty
ship to San Francisco where he met up with a man from Grand Haven. They
exchanged stories.
•
Mentions that he was never wounded nor that his outfit encountered
kamikazes. Returned home in 1944.
•
From San Francisco he went to Santiago and then home to Grand Haven for a
period of 30 days leave. Afterwards, he went down Cherry Point, NC where
he worked pulling out on B-25 and Corsair engines. Gives brief description of
job responsibilities in some detail. (15:01) He was discharged on Dec. 20th,
1945.
After the War (15:20)
•
After being discharged, he went to Grand Rapids looking for jobs, but after
finding nothing, returned to Grand Haven. Worked in a variety of capacities for
the next few years; first as a factory worker and later as a service agent for
Pennsylvania Central Airlines for 3 years in Muskegon. Afterwards, he lived in
Traverse City for 11 years and returned to Grand Rapids. (16:31) Had 36 years
and 9 months worth of working. During his time with Pennsylvania Central
Airlines he spent 22 years on the big island of Hawaii. (18:09) Mentions that he
regularly attends Marine Corps Reunions every year around the U.S. (23:31)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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MastenbrookW
Title
A name given to the resource
Mastenbrook, Warren (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mastenbrook, Warren
Description
An account of the resource
Warren Mastenbrook is a WW II veteran who served in the U.S. Marine Corps as an aircraft mechanic from 1941 to 1945. In this account, he discusses his pre-enlistment years, enlistment and training the U.S. and combat experiences in the Pacific, primarily in the Solomons.
Contributor
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McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer)
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United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
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United States. Marine Corps
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives
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eng
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2008-02-16
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Text
VILLAGE OF SEBEWAING
MASTER PLAN
NOVEMBER 2018
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SEBEWAING
�This document was generated over the course of a year, with input from numerous stakeholders. While the
process was led by the Master Plan Steering Committee, the plan reflects the feedback and guidance
provided by the community through surveys, public comments, and multiple stakeholder meetings.
Steering Committee
Dale Bolzman, Planning Commission
Julie Epperson, Planning Commission
Jo Jubar, Planning Commission
Jeff Parsons, Planning Commission
Nathan Schulz, Planning Commission
Doug and Chris Deming, Sebewaing Chamber of Commerce
Duane Dressler, Department of Public Works Superintendent
Alexander Khoury, Village President
Lois Kroll, Village Clerk
Melanie McCoy, Light & Water Superintendent
Carl Osentoski, Huron Economic Development Corporation
Village Council
Alexander Khoury, President
Marcus Sting, President Pro-tem
Larry Heider, Trustee
Matthew Cummings, Trustee
Marcus Deering, Trustee
Julie Epperson, Trustee
Brandy Gunsell, Trustee
Linda Engelhardt, Treasurer
Lois Kroll, Clerk
Planning assistance by:
Emily Rhodes, Delta Institute
Cindy Winland, Delta Institute
A
delta institute
Financial assistance for this project was provided, in part, by the Coastal Zone Management Program, Office
of the Great Lakes, Michigan Department of Natural Resources, under the National Coastal Zone
Management Program, through a grant from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, U.S.
Department of Commerce.
MICHIGAN OFFICE OF THE GREAT LAKES
�Village of Sebewaing
Huron County, Michigan
Planning Commission Resolution
At a regular meeting of the Planning Commission of the Village of Sebewaing, Huron County,
Michigan, held on November 1, 2018 at 2:00 p.m.
WHEREAS, the Village of Sebewaing Planning Commission and Steering Committee, pursuant
to the Michigan Planning Enabling Act (Public Act 33 of 2008, as amended), has studied and
prepared recommendations for the development and land use in the Village of Sebewaing
Master Plan; and
WHEREAS, the draft of the Master Plan was presented to the Village Council for review and
approval of distribution for comment; and
WHEREAS, the Village Council approved distribution of the Plan, thereby commencing the
required public review period; and
WHEREAS, on October 15, 2018, a duly and properly noticed public hearing was held to
consider public comment on the proposed Master Plan, and to provide the public another
opportunity to comment prior to the Planning Commission's consideration to approve the Plan;
and
WHEREAS, the Planning Commission has conducted a final review of the Master Plan and
determined approval of said Plan is in the best interests of the Village of Sebewaing.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Village of Sebewaing Planning Commission
hereby adopts the Village of Sebewaing Master Plan, including all of the chapters, figures,
descriptive matters, maps, and tables contained therein. The provisions of the Master Plan to be
effective immediately.
The Resolution was introduced by
Jeff Parso" s
and seconded by
Jo Ju bCtr
ROLL CALL VOTE:
MEMBER
YEAS
NAYS
ABSENT
DALE BOLZMAN
fil'
JULIE EPPERSON
□
JO JU BAR
,JQ
□
□
□
RESOLUTION:
~
ADOPTED
MEMBER
YEAS
NAYS
ABSENT
□
JEFF PARSONS
1E1'
Ji:!
NATHAN SCHULZ
□
□
□
□
□
□ DEFEATED
□ TABLED
Resolution declared adopted this 1st day of November, 2018.
g Commission Chairman
~
�1. Introduction ...................................................................................................................................................... 5
Authority to Plan ............................................................................................................................................... 5
Purpose and Use ............................................................................................................................................... 5
The Planning Process........................................................................................................................................ 5
2. Regional Setting ................................................................................................................................................ 7
3. Community Profile ............................................................................................................................................ 8
Population Overview ........................................................................................................................................ 8
Age ..................................................................................................................................................................... 8
Housing ............................................................................................................................................................. 8
Household Income, Employment, and Educational Attainment .................................................................. 11
Natural Resources .......................................................................................................................................... 12
Community Facilities ...................................................................................................................................... 14
Utilities ............................................................................................................................................................ 15
Transportation ................................................................................................................................................ 15
4. Existing Land Use ............................................................................................................................................ 19
5. Public Engagement ......................................................................................................................................... 24
Community Survey ......................................................................................................................................... 24
Public Meeting ................................................................................................................................................. 29
6. Goals and Objectives ...................................................................................................................................... 30
1. Tourism ....................................................................................................................................................... 30
2. Housing........................................................................................................................................................ 31
3. Development .............................................................................................................................................. 31
4. Water Assets ............................................................................................................................................... 32
5. Village Services ........................................................................................................................................... 33
6. Resilience ..................................................................................................................................................... 33
7. Redevelopment Sites ..................................................................................................................................... 34
8. Future Land Use .............................................................................................................................................. 41
Single-family residential ................................................................................................................................. 41
Multi-family residential ................................................................................................................................... 42
Commercial ..................................................................................................................................................... 42
Manufacturing ................................................................................................................................................. 42
2
�Mixed-use ........................................................................................................................................................ 42
Recreation ....................................................................................................................................................... 42
9. Zoning Plan ...................................................................................................................................................... 44
10. Implementation Strategy ............................................................................................................................. 46
Zoning Ordinance Revisions .......................................................................................................................... 46
Public Participation and Support .................................................................................................................... 47
Continuous Planning ....................................................................................................................................... 47
Appendix A .......................................................................................................................................................... 54
Link to Survey Results .................................................................................................................................... 54
Appendix B .......................................................................................................................................................... 55
Public Meeting Poster Boards ........................................................................................................................ 55
Appendix C .......................................................................................................................................................... 56
Concept Plan for 249 N. Center Street (the Former LMS Property) - Public Comment Draft ................... 56
Figure 1: Village of Sebewaing Context Map ....................................................................................................... 7
Figure 2: Walkability Audit .................................................................................................................................. 17
Figure 3: Current Land Use Map ......................................................................................................................... 23
Figure 4: Are you a current resident of the Village of Sebewaing? .................................................................. 24
Figure 5: What is your age? ................................................................................................................................ 24
Figure 6: How would you characterize the quality of life in the Village of Sebewaing? ................................... 25
Figure 7: List the three (3) things that would improve your quality of life if they were available in the Village of
Sebewaing. .......................................................................................................................................................... 25
Figure 8: List the three (3) major challenges facing the Village of Sebewaing................................................. 26
Figure 9: How would you prioritize the following? (Count of “High” responses) ............................................ 26
Figure 10: What issues do you believe are very important to the future of the Village of Sebewaing? ......... 27
Figure 11: What aspect of sustainability, resilience, and natural resources need to be protected or
enhanced? ........................................................................................................................................................... 27
Figure 12: What priority should be given to the following capital improvements? (Count of “High” responses)
............................................................................................................................................................................. 28
Figure 13: What priority should be given to the following to attract more visitors/tourists? (Count of “High”
responses)........................................................................................................................................................... 28
3
�Figure 14: Historic River District Context Map ................................................................................................. 34
Figure 15: M-25 Corridor Context Map ............................................................................................................. 38
Figure 16: Future Land Use Map ........................................................................................................................ 43
Table 1: Selected Demographic and Economic Characteristics ...................................................................... 10
Table 2: Employment by Industry ...................................................................................................................... 11
Table 3: Natural Resources ................................................................................................................................ 13
Table 4: USA School enrollment by school year ................................................................................................ 14
Table 5: Existing Land Uses ................................................................................................................................ 20
Table 6: Future Land Use and Corresponding Zoning Categories................................................................... 44
Table 7: Goal 1 Implementation Plan ................................................................................................................. 48
Table 8: Goal 2 Implementation Plan ................................................................................................................. 49
Table 9: Goal 3 Implementation Plan ................................................................................................................. 50
Table 10: Goal 4 Implementation Plan ............................................................................................................... 51
Table 11: Goal 5 Implementation Plan ............................................................................................................... 52
Table 12: Goal 6 Implementation Plan ............................................................................................................... 53
4
�Authority to Plan
Authorized by the Michigan Planning Enabling Act (MPEA, PA 33 of 2008, as amended), the Village of
Sebewaing has prepared the following Master Plan. The Village of Sebewaing Planning Commission was
formed in the summer of 2015 and is comprised of residents and business owners. As a newly formed body,
the Planning Commission participated in basic training for planning commissioners and has undertaken
resiliency planning and a public utility resolution for siting, taken part in the Main Street Program, and
facilitated several engagement processes.
Purpose and Use
The purpose of this Master Plan is to act as a roadmap for the future of the Village of Sebewaing. Through a
series of goals and objectives, this plan will provide a guide for the future land use decisions, zoning
ordinances, and activities pursued throughout the Village. While no plan can be all inclusive of the projects,
activities, situations, and needs of the community in the future, this plan is a guide for the community to
prioritize and pursue activities that will shape the future of the Village.
Throughout the document, this symbol is used to call out how the document can be used at various
decision points in the planning process.
The Planning Process
The Village of Sebewaing Master Plan planning process began in November of 2017. However, this plan
represents information and community input that has been gathered over the past few years and builds on
past planning efforts including the Village of Sebewaing Resiliency Plan, the Village of Sebewaing Recreation
Plan, First Impressions Tourism Program (FIT), Michigan State University Spring 2018 Practicum Report,
Michigan Economic Development Corporation Redevelopment Ready Communities program, and past
regional planning documents. The Village contracted with Delta Institute to support the completion of the
Master Plan.
To guide the creation of the plan, the Master Plan Steering Committee was formed. The Steering
Committee is made up of members of the Village of Sebewaing Planning Commission, Sebewaing Light and
Water, the Village Clerk, the Department of Public Works, the Huron County Economic Development
Corporation, and local business owners. The Steering Committee met once a month to work on the plan.
The planning process began with a review of existing conditions and land uses in the Village of Sebewaing.
Using input gathered from a community survey and past community meetings, a series of goals and
objectives were created and the Future Land Use Map was developed. The goals and objectives were the
subject of a community meeting held on June 7, 2018.
5
�A public hearing was held on October 15, 2018 as required by the MPEA and to provide an additional
opportunity for feedback and input following the 65-day public comment period. After the hearing, the
Master Plan was adopted by the Planning Commission on November 1, 2018 and then approved by the
Village of Sebewaing Council on November 5, 2018. A copy of the adopting resolution is included in this plan
and the plan is available at the village office and on the village website for review. The planning commission
and community will use this plan as a basis to guide their work over the next five years at which point the plan
will be reviewed and amended as necessary.
6
�The Village of Sebewaing is a village located along the Saginaw Bay in Huron County, Michigan. Named for
the crooked creek that flows through the Village, Sebewaing is known for its abundant natural resources and
connection to nature through agriculture, hunting, fishing, and recreation. The Village of Sebewaing is within
Sebewaing Township, an area primarily made up of agricultural uses and cropland. The Village is within a onehour drive to cities such as Flint, Bay City, and Saginaw. Sebewaing is also located less than a two-hour drive
to Lansing and Detroit, and to the US-Canadian Border in Sarnia, Canada.
Figure 1: Village of Sebewaing Context Map
7
�Population Overview
Before developing proposed goals and action items for the Master Plan, it is important to understand the
current context and needs of the residents in the Village. According to the 2016 American Community
Survey, the Village of Sebewaing is home to 1,610 residents. Over the last 15 years, Sebewaing has seen a
decline in its population by nearly 18 percent. During the same time period, both Sebewaing Township and
Huron County saw approximately 11 percent drop in population. In general, the population in the Village of
Sebewaing tends to be older, have smaller household sizes, and have a higher rate of disability than the
broader geographies of Sebewaing Township, Huron County, or the State of Michigan.
Implications: These characteristics are important to take into account during the planning process.
Different age groups may have varying needs in terms of community facilities, activities, and housing
options and a shrinking population can have an impact on housing vacancy and community services.
Age
A significant characteristic of Sebewaing is the high median age. The median of 51.8 years is more than ten
years higher than the State of Michigan. According to the US Census analysis of urban and rural America,
rural areas in America tend to have a higher median age (43) compared to urban areas (36). In the Village of
Sebewaing, residents 65 and older represent 22.2 percent of the population, a 6.5 percent increase since
2000. Residents ages 20 to 64 have consistently been the largest age group, making up 60.2 percent of the
population in 2015. The relative percentage of this age group to the total population has grown slightly since
2000, up by 2.4 percent. The Village of Sebewaing has seen a 7 percent decline in residents under the age of
20, representing only 16 percent of the population in 2016.
Implications: An older population has some unique needs in terms of housing, health care, recreation
facilities and activities, and transportation that should be taken into consideration when planning future
development and activities in the Village. Sebewaing is looking at zoning options that may promote
walkability between residential units and services. This approach to planning and development can be
attractive to both members of the community that would like to remain in the community into retirement
as well as attract new residents looking for amenities nearby.
Housing
The housing stock in Sebewaing has grown by 13.5 percent since 1970. Most of the housing stock is
comprised of 1-unit, detached structures. Only twenty percent of the housing stock was characterized by
two- or more units in 2016. However, the number of occupied units has declined from 2000 to 2016, with a
8
�24 percent loss in occupied rental units. While the number of vacant housing units has doubled since 2000,
over the last few years very few houses within the Village of Sebewaing have been for sale for new residents
in the area to purchase. A scan of the real-estate market in the summer of 2018, showed only 6 houses were
for sale in the Village.
Implications: The rising vacancy rate may be due to the Village’s aging housing stock that doesn’t meet the
needs of new families or an aging population, or from a declining population. However, with very few houses
for sale, the Village is looking at diversifying housing options, both in terms of affordability and size, as well
as promoting the redevelopment of vacant units before building new housing options.
9
�Village of Sebewaing
2000
2010
2016
Sebewaing Township*
2000
2010
2016
Huron County
2000
2010
State of Michigan
2016
2000
2010
2016
Total Population
1,974
1,759
1,610
2,944
2,724
2,634
36,079
33,118
32,021
9,938,444
9,883,640
9,909,600
Median Age
40.9
44.9
51.8
40.9
44.7
48.3
41.2
46.8
48.3
35.5
38.9
39.5
Population Under 20
25.3%
18.6%
16.0%
25.8%
22.8%
20.5%
26.3%
22.7%
21.7%
29.0%
23.7%
25.3%
Average Household
size
2.27
2.19
2.11
2.35
2.3
2.3
2.42
2.27
2.27
2.56
2.49
2.51
Bachelor's Degree or
Higher
10.6%
12.7%
13.0%
10.0%
11.3%
12.3%
10.9%
12.8%
14.9%
21.8%
25.0%
27.4%
High school diploma
74.8%
85.0%
89.0%
80.9%
87.9%
91.3%
78.3%
84.6%
88.7%
83.4%
88.0%
89.9%
Median Household
Income (in 2016
dollars)
$45,924
$45,004
$41,324
$48,106
$46,240
$51,384
$49,565
$44,115
$43,082
$62,691
$53,212
$50,803
Per Capita Income (in
2016 dollars)
$23,711
$23,283
$22,875
$24,964
$23,753
$26,260
$25,054
$22,760
$24,455
31,113
$27,860
$27,549
Disabled
20.9%
16.80%
17.76%
18.6%
12.90%
13.40%
18.9%
16.80%
16.09%
17.2%
13.70%
14.07%
Below Poverty Level
17.5%
9.8%
9.4%
13.9%
8.6%
7.7%
10.2%
13.3%
13.95%
10.5%
14.8%
16.3%
Table 1: Selected Demographic and Economic Characteristics
Source: US Census Bureau. Census 2000, Census 2010, 2012-2016 American Community Survey 5-Year Estimates.
*The Township demographic figures include the Village of Sebewaing population
10
�Household Income, Employment, and Educational Attainment
In 2016, the median household income was $41,324, in dollars adjusted for inflation, which represents a
decrease from 2010. In addition, the Village median household income is nearly $10,000 lower than that of
Sebewaing Township or the State of Michigan. However, in the Village of Sebewaing, the poverty rate
dropped from 17.5% to 8.6% from 2000 to 2016, and a similar decline in poverty rate was experienced in
Sebewaing Township. According to the US Census Bureau, 13% of adults in Sebewaing held a bachelor’s
degree or higher in 2016 and almost 9 in 10 adults in Sebewaing held a high school diploma, about a 14
percent increase since 2000. Manufacturing, Healthcare and Social Assistance, and Retail Trade were the
top industries employing Sebewaing residents in 2015.
Michigan Sugar Company is an agricultural cooperative with sugar beet processing plants in Bay City, Caro,
Croswell, and Sebewaing. Michigan Sugar is the largest employer in Huron County, and according to the
company’s website, across their seven facilities, they employ approximately 700 people year-round, and an
additional 1,600 during peak season. According to data compiled by the Huron County Economic
Development Corporation, Sebewaing is home to four of the counties 43 top industrial employers.
Implications: The lower annual incomes in Sebewaing is likely due to the higher percentage of residents over
65 years old or disabled, who are more likely to be on a fixed income or whose employment is more seasonal
in nature. In addition, more educated and highly skilled workers tend to earn more than their counterparts
with lower educational attainment. Sebewaing residents that are employed are in industries that align with
broader trends in the region.
EMPLOYMENT BY INDUSTRY (2015)
Village of Sebewaing Sebewaing Township* Huron County
21.3%
21.9%
15.4%
Manufacturing
Health Care and Social Assistance
19.3%
18.4%
16.0%
Retail Trade
11.5%
12.0%
11.1%
Accommodation and Food Services
7.0%
7.1%
6.8%
Educational Services
6.6%
6.3%
6.6%
Administration & Support, Waste Management and Remediation
4.9%
4.7%
8.8%
Public Administration
4.0%
4.4%
4.8%
Other Services (excluding Public Administration)
3.6%
2.8%
3.2%
Transportation and Warehousing
3.5%
4.5%
3.0%
Wholesale Trade
3.3%
2.8%
3.7%
Construction
2.8%
2.7%
4.7%
Finance and Insurance
2.8%
3.1%
3.8%
Professional, Scientific, and Technical Services
2.7%
2.4%
3.2%
Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting
2.4%
2.4%
4.4%
Management of Companies and Enterprises
1.7%
1.7%
1.2%
Information
1.6%
1.4%
1.6%
Arts, Entertainment, and Recreation
0.7%
0.4%
0.8%
Real Estate and Rental and Leasing
0.3%
0.6%
0.5%
Utilities
0.1%
0.3%
0.4%
Table 2: Employment by Industry
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Center for Economic Studies. On The Map.
*The Township figures include the Village of Sebewaing population
11
�Natural Resources
The Village of Sebewaing is home to incredible natural resources. The natural features of the Village are an important component to resident’s quality of
life and they have the ability to complement and grow the recreation opportunities throughout the Village. Many residents in the Village recognize the
importance of preserving, protecting, and enhancing the Village’s natural resources into the future.
Saginaw Bay
Sebewaing River
Wetlands
Forest & Open Green Space
The Saginaw Bay makes up
Sebewaing’s western border. The
1,143 square mile freshwater bay is
the largest coastal-wetland system
in the United States. It is a popular
destination for fishing, duck hunting,
kayaking, and boating. The Saginaw
Bay serves as an attraction to
recreational amenities, providing
campers, boaters, and families with
water-sport activities. While
phragmites currently overrun
Sebewaing Bay, the community has
an interest in identifying potential
locations for a beach or waterfront
access in the future.
The Sebewaing River runs from the
Saginaw Bay to the Cass River,
located southwest of Sebewaing
near Cass City, Michigan. The
Sebewaing River provides
opportunities for residents and
visitors to take advantage of the
natural resources that Sebewaing
has to offer. Sailboats, motorboats,
kayakers, and fisherman use the
river for warmer-month activities.
According to the National Wetlands
Inventory, a majority of Sebewaing’s
wetlands are located on the Saginaw
Bay. The wetlands along the
Saginaw Bay creates a marsh-like
shoreline consisting of phragmites,
open drains, and walking trails.
However, given the marsh-like
shoreline, development is limited in
this area. The Huron County Drain
Commissioner maintains the
township’s open channel drain
system, which many visitors use for
recreation activities, including ice
fishing, kayaking, and swimming.
The park and recreation areas
throughout the Village of Sebewaing
represent opportunities for
residents and tourists to enjoy both
forested areas and open green
space. The Sebewaing County Park
includes wooded trails, however,
currently these trails are not paved
or marked. Through public input,
residents have expressed interest in
improving the trails for year-round
use. The Village’s many parks also
offer open green space, baseball,
and softball fields.
12
�Natural Resources (continued)
Birdwatching, Fishing, and Duck Hunting
Climate
Invasive and Endangered Species
Given Sebewaing’s extensive natural areas,
wildlife is abundant in the area. Sebewaing is well
known for its great walleye fishing and the
Average Joe Fishing Tournament out of the
Sebewaing Marina attracts fisherman from
around the region. Birdwatching and duck
hunting are additional components to
Sebewaing’s recreation-based tourism and
amenities offered to residents.
According to the National Weather Service,
Sebewaing is a Moist Continental Mid-latitude
Climate. This type of climate tends to have warm
to cool summers and cold winters. As a coastal
community, the impacts of climate change pose
a significant risk to the Village of Sebewaing.
According to the Great Lakes Integrated
Sciences & Assessments, since 1900 the total
annual precipitation has increased 11 percent,
and since 1958 the average frost-free season
lengthened by nine days. The Sebewaing area is
primarily agricultural, and cropland comprises
one of the most vulnerable assets in the
community, particularly as extreme weather
events increase and average temperatures rise.
The Village of Sebewaing, like many communities
throughout Michigan, has been impacted by the
invasive plant species phragmites. Phragmites
are wetland grass that through a tight root
system suffocates the native plant and animal
life living in the Saginaw Bay Area. According to
the Huron County Recreation Plan, over the last
decade, phragmites has taken over many beachfront areas in the region.
Table 3: Natural Resources
13
�Community Facilities
Parks
The Village of Sebewaing is concurrently updating their Village Recreation Plan, which provides an
in-depth assessment of the Sebewaing area recreational facilities. The Village boasts 6 parks,
including the Sebewaing County Park that spans 26-acres and includes 54 large hookup sites and 10
tent sites. In addition, the Village is home to the Sebewaing River Campground with 73 camping site
and fishing access. For a more in-depth review of the community facilities throughout Sebewaing,
reference the Village of Sebewaing Recreation Plan 2019-2023.
Schools
The Village of Sebewaing is served by three area schools.
The Christ the King Lutheran School is a private school with two campuses. The campus
located in the Village of Sebewaing is open to students from 2nd through 8th grade. The preschool and 1st grade campus is located in nearby Unionville.
The New Salem Lutheran School is a small private school located within the Village of Sebewaing.
The Unionville-Sebewaing Area School District is located in Sebewaing Township and is
made up of the Unionville-Sebewaing Area Elementary School and the Unionville-Sebewaing
Area Middle and High School, which are located in the same building. Enrollment numbers for
the three schools are listed below in Table 4. In addition to serving the Sebewaing and
Unionville communities, the Unionville-Sebewaing Area Schools attract students from
Fairhaven Township, Columbia Township, Akron Township, and Wisner Township and
beyond.
Enrollment:
Unionville-Sebewaing Elem. School
Unionville-Sebewaing Middle School
Unionville-Sebewaing High School
2013-14
270
223
270
2014-15
255
211
267
2015-16
342
157
261
2016-17
325
150
260
2017-18
313
160
259
Table 4: USA School enrollment by school year
Source: MI School Data, Student Counts
Marina
The Sebewaing Harbor Marina is located near the
mouth of the Sebewaing River on the Saginaw Bay. It
is owned in partnership between the Village of
Sebewaing and Sebewaing Township and is
operated by a private entity. The Sebewaing Harbor
Marina has 80 boat slips, four boat launches, and
public restrooms. The marina is an amenity that
attracts residents and visitors alike in the warmer
months.
Sebewaing Harbor Marina
14
�Utilities
Electric
Sebewaing Light and Water (SLW) is a municipally owned electric, water, and internet utility. They
ensure the reliability and affordability of water, electric, and internet for the residents and
businesses of Sebewaing. SLW has scheduled for installation of new natural gas engines to provide
reliable power and to meet the needs of Michigan Sugar Company during the processing season. The
engine plant is designed to add efficiency by providing hot water to neighboring facilities through the
combined heat and power (CHP) process.
Municipal Water
SLW supplies drinking water from three wells and 17 miles of pipe. In 2017, SLW sold over 76 million
gallons of water. However, as with many communities, aging infrastructure can be a challenge. SLW
is continuing to explore ways to make their infrastructure and service delivery more sustainable and
resilient. SLW is currently exploring new pipes for their system.
Internet
SLW is a small internet provider that provides fiber optic networks to residents and businesses
across the Village. Providing fiber service is a great benefit to the community, increasing internet
access to previously underserved areas and providing faster service at a lower price.
Sewer and Stormwater
The Department of Public Works maintains the Village’s sanitary sewer and stormwater
management system. The sanitary sewer system includes 80,000 feet of sewer lines and contains 2
lift stations and 5 lagoons, totaling 55 surface acres to treat wastewater. The stormwater system is
comprised of 65,000 feet of drainage infrastructure.
Transportation
Roadways
The main traffic corridor through the Village of Sebewaing is South Beck Street (M-25), which runs
North-South through the Village before heading northeast to Bay Port then onto Caseville and
southwest towards Unionville and Bay City. The remaining network through the Village is primarily
made up of local roadways providing access to business and residential property. There is lighting
throughout the Village and major roadways include curbs and gutters. In the downtown area, street
crossings are marked with crosswalks.
15
�Pedestrian and Bicycle Paths
In the Spring of 2018, a Michigan State University
Practicum class completed a walking audit through the
Village, looking at the presence of lighting, sidewalks,
crosswalks, and signage along roadways. To determine
the walkability ratings in Figure 2, data was collected on
street lighting, sidewalks, curbs, crosswalk/road paint,
and signage. Particular streets score lower if any
combination of the attributes were missing. A street
could receive a score of “Moderate Walkability” if it had
proper safety accommodations such as curbs, lighting,
and crosswalks/road paint, but lacked in appropriate
signage/ sidewalk quality. A “High Walkability” rating
was given if a street met all of the requirements.
While some residential areas lacked sidewalks, the
majority of the commercial and residential areas
received a moderate walkability rating. As expected,
Ped/Bike Route Signage
the industrial area of the Village near larger industrial
sites such as Bayside Best Beans and the Michigan Sugar Factory, received lower walkability ratings.
See Figure 2: Walkability Audit below for the results of the walkability audit.
The walkability score, along with community input through surveys and public meetings, helped
inform the Village’s objective around developing a non-motorized walking trail and connections
from the Village residential and commercial areas to the waterfront (see Chapter 6: Goals and
Objectives). The walkability audit results also informed the Village of Sebewaing’s 5-year Parks and
Recreation Master Plan, which can be found on the village website. The Parks and Recreation Master
Plan highlights additional planning and potential resources for streets and wayfinding improvements
including improving connectivity through signage and developing a Village Park Walking Loop.
16
�Figure 2: Walkability Audit
17
�Transit
The Huron Transit Corporation, known as the Thumb Area Transit (TAT), provides door-to-door bus
services for the residents of Huron County. TAT operates in a demand/response mode and offers
Sebewaing residents the ability to schedule a ride with the service to be picked up and taken to any
location throughout Huron County.
Airport
The Village of Sebewaing is home to one airport, owned by Sebewaing Township. Situated along
Saginaw Bay, the airport has one paved and one grass runway. The facility is adjacent to the
Sebewaing Harbor Marina and is a half mile walk along West Sebewaing Street to the Historic River
District. The airport is used by the Michigan National Guard as a training site. The airport is open to
the public and in 2015 saw an average of 38 aircraft operations per week.
Other modes of transportation
The Huron and Eastern Railway is a short line railroad that operates in the Thumb and Flint/Tri-Cities
Area. The railway primarily carries agricultural products.
18
�The Master Plan is primarily a land use planning document that informs and directs zoning decisions. It is
important to document the current status of land uses that are on the ground today and how they support
the community’s vision or need to be modified to address anticipated changes and needs in the community.
The Existing Land Use is shown on Figure 3 (pg. 23) and divides land uses into eight categories: Single Family;
Multiple Family; Commercial; Industrial; Public; Open Space; Agricultural; Vacant. The Existing Land Use Map
was created in December 2017 utilizing the windshield survey technique and aerial photographs. The
Steering Committee verified each parcel based on their on-the-ground knowledge of the parcel land use.
These categories are not the same as the Future Land Use or Zoning categories because they represent
existing development as opposed to permitted uses. The percentage of land and acreage of varying types
of existing development are often compared to the Future Land Use categories of land to show how changes
are being made to accommodate future needs. Vacant land is important to note because it offers a blank
slate of sorts, to meet future needs.
The Existing Land Use Map can be used to determine any uses that are nonconforming with the
current zoning. This will indicate a need to address the purpose of nonconforming parcels, for
example, determining if there have been changes in conditions or community needs. It may also indicate a
need for revisions in the zoning map and/or language to eliminate them.
Nonconforming uses and dimensional regulations are common in older communities where lot sizes and
housing norms were established almost 100 years ago. Nonconformities can be resolved with sliding scales
for lot sizes and setbacks and serve to highlight the unique and attractive aspects of small town living versus
the often mono housing of suburbia.
Often the Existing Land Use Map is compared to the current Future Land Use Plan to see if the plan has been
realized and if not, why. In the case of Sebewaing, the current Future Land Use Map and Plan is of an age and
does not reflect additions to the Village boundaries, that it would not be useful as a measure of the fruition
or effort of the plan.
19
�The Existing Land Use Map for the Village points out several development patterns that are addressed later
in the Master Plan and in the Future Land Use Map:
Heavy industrial and residential, generally considered incompatible, are mingled together on Union,
Miller, and First Streets.
There is a mixed-use land use pattern that has evolved on Main Street.
A large portion of the commercial corridor on the south end of the Village on Unionville Road appears
to be inaccessible at this time.
The vacant land east of Tenth Street and on Adam Ridge Drive offers an opportunity for mixed or
otherwise unique land use combinations that would be beneficial in the adjacent neighborhoods.
The commercial corridor from Sharpsteen Street to Mason Street along Center Street also offers
opportunities for mixed land uses that would be beneficial to the whole community.
There are also opportunities to provide connectivity among recreational uses and increased
walkability from the water to downtown and from neighborhoods to downtown and recreation.
The existing land uses and their acreages are outlined below in Table 5:
Acreage
% of total
land
Single Family
Detached, single-family
residences.
330.3
38.1%
Multiple Family
Table 5: Existing Land Uses
Apartments and
assisted living facilities.
29.9
3.5%
Land Use
Brief Description
Image
20
�Acreage
% of total
land
Commercial
Retail, service, and office
land uses.
234.0
27.0%
Industrial
Light and heavy
industries involved in
manufacturing,
assembling, or
processing.
63.6
7.3%
Public
Land
Use
Brief Description
Marina, churches,
schools, municipal
building, and other
public property.
28.7
3.3%
Image
21
�Acreage
% of total
land
Open Space
Parks and cemeteries.
30.8
3.6%
Agricultural
Agricultural fields.
28.9
3.3%
Vacant
Land
Use
Parcels that are not
being actively used or
developed for any of the
purposes listed above.
120.2
13.9%
Brief Description
Image
22
�Figure 3: Current Land Use Map
23
�Community Survey
As part of the Village of Sebewaing’s Master Planning process, the Master Plan Steering Committee
undertook a community survey in order to gather feedback on a variety of questions related to the Master
Plan. The survey was open for three weeks, from January 29, 2018, through February 16, 2018, and was
available to stakeholders online through QuestionPro as well as in paper format. The paper surveys were
available at the Village Office and the Sebewaing Light and Water Office. Steering Committee members also
distributed paper surveys at businesses in the Village and at the meetings they attended during the three
weeks the survey was open. A total of 127 respondents completed the survey, with another 83 who started
but did not did complete the survey. This is a very high response rate in any size community. The project
team recorded the paper survey responses into QuestionPro prior to running an analysis of results to ensure
all responses were captured online. A copy of the survey and results are available in Appendix A.
The community survey contained 22 questions and respondents were first asked basic questions about
their relationship to the Village of Sebewaing including if they are a resident, how long they’ve lived in the
Village, and their age. The majority of respondents (63.8%) were current residents of the Village (Figure 4)
and just over a third of respondents (34.4%) have lived in the Village for 30 years or more. Of the visitors and
past residents that participated in the survey (about 20% of respondents), the vast majority of them come
to Sebewaing more than 12 times per year. The majority of survey participants were evenly distributed
between 25 years old and 64 years old (Figure 5).
Figure 4: Are you a current resident of the Village of
Sebewaing?
Figure 5: What is your age?
24
�Quality of Life
Respondents were also asked about their quality of life and why, if they were residents, they lived in the
Village of Sebewaing. Nearly 70 percent of respondents felt that the quality of life in the Village was generally
good, improving, or excellent (Figure 6), and the top three reasons selected for living in the Village were
“Close to family and friends”, “Born and raised here”, and “Like rural living”.
Figure 6: How would you characterize the quality of life in the Village of Sebewaing?
When asked to list three things that would improve their quality of life (Figure 7), 15 percent of respondents
were interested in seeing additional activities in the Village, such as a movie theater, kayaking, or more
Village events, such as farmers markets. Many survey participants expressed interest in seeing more dining
options as well as more businesses and retail in the area. This was also reflected in respondent's answer to
what services they would like to see, where restaurant/coffee shop was the overwhelming majority.
Figure 7: List the three (3) things that would improve your quality of life if they were available in the Village of Sebewaing.
25
�Challenges
When asked about the challenges that the Village may face in the future, respondents were concerned about
the lack of jobs, businesses, and things to do. Survey participants were also concerned about residents
moving out or not being able to attract new residents and younger generations to the community (Figure 8).
Respondents were also concerned about blighted and abandoned or unattractive buildings/yards
throughout the Village and 23 percent expressed concern about Village Services such as the tap water,
utilities, roads, or policing.
Figure 8: List the three (3) major challenges facing the Village of Sebewaing.
Community Needs
Respondents were also asked
about how they would prioritize
the need to attract different
services and types of business
to the Village (Figure 9). Of the
respondents, 84.7 percent put
high priority on “attracting
more retail and other services
(restaurants, lodging, legal
services, repair services)”,
followed by nearly 70 percent
placing
“attracting
more
visitors/tourists” as a high
priority. “Attracting more
industrial businesses” and Figure 9: How would you prioritize the following? (Count of “High” responses)
“maintaining existing park and
recreational facilities” and
“continuing to enforce the blight ordinance” rounded out the top five items respondents would give high
priority.
26
�Future of Sebewaing
The Master Plan Steering Committee was also interested in learning about what issues survey participants
believe are very important to the future of Sebewaing. Each respondent was able to select up to three
options of the 12 provided, or were given the opportunity to write in a response. The top three issues were
“Economic development/job creation” (134 votes); “Access to lakes and rivers” (111 votes); and “Tourism”
(91 votes). “Agriculture” was the fourth most selected answer, with 47 votes, followed by “Preservation,
protections, and enhancements of natural resources” with 40 votes.
Figure 10: What issues do you believe are very important to the future of the Village of Sebewaing?
Natural Resources
The Village of Sebewaing is home to
incredible natural resources. Survey
participants were asked to select
what natural resources they would
like to see protected. While the
questions required participants to
select their top three, one
respondent wrote-in to say “all of
the above” should be protected and
enhanced. Of those that did select
their top three, “Clean Water”
topped the list with 30 percent of the
votes. It was followed by “Wildlife
and habitat” with 18 percent and
“Public lands and open space” with
14 percent of the votes (Figure 11). Figure 11: What aspect of sustainability, resilience, and natural resources need
to be protected or enhanced?
27
�Capital Improvements
The Community Survey also asked participants to rank how they would prioritize capital improvements in
the Village of Sebewaing. Some write-in respondents thought the Village already has great internet service
and that the parks throughout the Village are nice. The highest priority was given to improving the drinking
water quality and maintaining the roads (Figure 12).
Figure 12: What priority should be given to the following capital improvements? (Count of “High” responses)
Tourism
Tourism was another topic covered in the Community Survey. When asked if the Village of Sebewaing needs
to focus development on the tourism industry, of the 136 respondents, 85 percent agreed or strongly
agreed. The top three types of tourism that survey respondents thought should get the most attention,
“Boating & fishing” topped the list with 107 votes, followed by “other types of recreation” such as kayaking
and biking with 94 votes, then “Events” including farmers markets, flea markets, tournaments, with 92 votes
(Figure 13). Some respondents selected the “other” option and suggested things like looking into
ecotourism, more dining options, or exploring indoor or winter activities.
Figure 13: What priority should be given to the following to attract more visitors/tourists? (Count of “High” responses)
For a full list of the survey questions, answers, and write-in responses, please see Appendix A.
28
�Public Meeting
On June 7, 2018, the Village of Sebewaing held a public meeting to gather input on the proposed goals and
objectives that were created from data gathered from the community survey as well as past public
meetings. The 24 community members in attendance participated in a sticker-voting exercise to provide
initial input on whether they agreed or disagreed with the proposed goals and objectives. The outcome of
the sticker-voting showed that all members were aligned on each of the six draft goal topic areas.
Participants then engaged in a discussion about each of the six topic areas. Comments from the public
meeting were then incorporated into the draft goals and objectives that are outlined later in this plan. A link
to the electronic version of the poster boards used for the public meeting can be found in Appendix B.
Finally, comment cards were provided at the meeting and then at the Village Office to allow for residents to
continue to provide feedback and comments on the proposed goals, objectives, and the overall planning
process.
Participants at the June 7, 2018 Public Meeting
29
�A key element of the Master Plan is the identification of the goals and objectives outlining the community’s
desired activities for the future of the Village. The below goals and objectives were developed with input
from the master plan survey, community feedback during meetings that took place over the last two years,
as well as other planning efforts recently undertaken by the Village including the Resiliency Plan, Recreation
Plan, Redevelopment Ready Communities Baseline Report, and participation in the First Impressions
Tourism (FIT) program. From this wide range of input, the goals of the community coalesced around six main
topics: 1) Tourism; 2) Housing; 3) Development; 4) Water Assets; 5) Village Services and; 6) Resilience.
Each topic area is organized as follows:
Goals are general guidelines for what the community wants to achieve.
Objectives describe a specific future condition to be implemented within a certain period of time.
o Supporting information is also provided for each objective.
Not every goal and objective will be achieved in the next 10- to 20-years. This list of goals and
objectives should be used by current residents and municipal leaders to guide priorities and actions.
It will also help future residents and municipal leaders to understand the thinking behind and
reasoning for each of the goals and objectives outlined below.
1. Tourism
Tourism is an important part of the Village of
Sebewaing’s identity. The Village is well known for its
great walleye fishing and duck hunting and is home to
two campgrounds and a marina that attract visitors
from across the state. Each year, the Village is flooded
with visitors attending the Sugar Festival. Input from
the community has highlighted that the community
would like to continue to grow TOURISM by maximizing
parks and recreation assets and providing
opportunities for these activities to grow Sebewaing as
a destination.
Objectives:
Develop fishing, birding activities, and hunting
opportunities
o
Builds on existing natural resources and recreation opportunities to attract more visitors.
Promote Agritourism
o
In 2017, the Village of Sebewaing participated
in MSU’s First Impressions: Assessing Your
Community for Tourism (FIT) program. The FIT
program is a community assessment that helps
communities learn about their strengths,
challenges, and opportunities for change
through the eyes of first-time visitors. The
outcome of the 2017 assessment was a series
of suggestions to attract more visitors to the
area.
Strengthens connection to the agricultural nature of the Village of Sebewaing and
surrounding area.
Attract destination hotel development and diversify lodging options
30
�o
o
Attract RV park development
o
A destination hotel would both support future growth in additional visitors to Sebewaing as
well as act as a stand-alone destination.
Diverse lodging options, such as short-term rental services and bed and breakfasts, will
give visitors options for where to stay in Sebewaing.
Sebewaing County Park offers RV parking; however, at times it is at capacity. An additional
RV development would support the increase in visitors looking for this amenity.
Create Village Marketing Campaign
o
By promoting the activities and facilities that exist in Sebewaing a marketing campaign can
attract new visitors to the area that may not otherwise know about Sebewaing.
2. Housing
The Village of Sebewaing is predominantly composed of single-family detached housing. A diverse range of
affordable, quality housing is a sign of a strong neighborhood and ensures there are options for residents of
all ages and abilities. In order to support both current and future residents, the Village strives to develop a
range of affordable, quality HOUSING.
Objectives:
Increase the mix of housing
o
o
A diverse range of size, quality, and affordable housing is needed to meet the needs of
current residents, residents who would like to remain in the community through
retirement, and new residents looking to call Sebewaing their home.
Mixed layouts of units and affordability are two key features of the need.
Prioritize redevelopment of vacant housing units
o
With very few houses for sale, the Village is focused on diversifying housing options, both in
terms of affordability and size, as well as promoting the redevelopment of vacant units
before building new housing options. Getting vacant units ready for sale would allow the
Village to provide quality, affordable housing while addressing blight.
3. Development
The Village of Sebewaing has a rural character that residents like and is fortunate to have a large number of
parks and greenspace, including wetlands and forests. In order to maintain the Village’s rural character and
protect its natural resources while also allowing for new amenities, housing options, and jobs to come to the
Village, Sebewaing must be thoughtful about the future development in the Village and plan for
attractive commercial, residential, and industrial DEVELOPMENT throughout the Village of Sebewaing.
Objectives:
Decrease blight in the community
o
Maintaining and strengthening the blight ordinance is a key interest in the community and
as buildings continue to age, this will continue to be an important objective.
31
� Take control of vacant, abandoned and obsolete property
o Some of Sebewaing’s former industrial facilities have sat
o
Intentionally promote development of Historic River District and
M25 Business Corridor (for more information, see Chapter 7:
Redevelopment Sites)
o
249 N. Center Street (the former
Lapeer Metal Stamping site)
vacant for many years, including 249 N. Center Street (the
former Lapeer Metal Stamping site) or 708 N. Beck Street
(the former Acme Roll Forming Co. site). By taking control of
these properties they can be returned to productive use and
support economic development in Sebewaing.
The 249 N. Center Street property (former Lapeer Metal
Stamping site) is a brownfield site in the heart of downtown
Sebewaing. Planning and design work has taken place to begin
exploring the remediation and redevelopment options for the
site. The current concept plan for the site is shown in
Appendix C.
Many community members expressed interest in additional
development in both commercial corridors, such as
restaurants or coffee shops to improve quality of life.
Residential support of new businesses would be important for
their success. Development in these corridors can also bring
jobs to the area.
4. Water Assets
Sebewaing is home to incredible water assets, including
the Sebewaing River and Saginaw Bay. However, due to
challenges with invasive phragmites, opportunities to
access and utilize these waterways have been limited.
The community survey and input from public meetings
have reiterated the community’s vision for improved
access to and use of the Village of Sebewaing’s WATER
ASSETS.
Objectives:
Identify beach location
o
Currently, there is no beach access in the Village of Sebewaing. Beach access would allow
residents and tourists to enjoy the coastal nature of Sebewaing.
Develop water recreation - boating, kayaking
o
In addition, the Village of Sebewaing is
reviewing and updating its 5-year Recreation
Plan. The Recreation Plan update allowed for
additional thought to be given to the types of
activities the Village would like to pursue to
build upon the activities and recreation
services provided to its residents and tourists.
Supports the Village’s connection to their water assets through activities.
Develop non-motorized walking trails and connections from the Village residential and commercial
areas to the waterfront
o
To promote access to future water recreation and beach locations, walking trails and bike
paths from upland to the water assets can provide year-round opportunities for residents
to recreate.
32
�5. Village Services
The Village has taken a proactive approach to gather input from residents and sharing information in a timely
manner. Meeting minutes from the Village Council, Police, Department of Public Works, and Sebewaing
Light and Water Meetings are all posted online on the Village’s website and public meetings are advertised
online and at the Village Office. In addition to continuing these efforts, the Village strives to continue to
improve services and provide efficient and effective VILLAGE SERVICES.
Objectives:
Continue to improve drinking water system
o
Through the public engagement process, feedback was provided regarding concerns with
the Village’s drinking water. Sebewaing Light and Water is taking steps to address these
concerns by improving the distribution infrastructure of the drinking water system.
Promote collaborative efforts among municipalities and agencies
o
Ensures efficient and effective services are provided and that lines of communication
remain open between the service provision entities working together, including but not
limited to, Emergency Management Services, Sebewaing Township, Consumer’s Energy,
USA Schools, Fire Department, and DTE Energy.
6. Resilience
As a coastal community, planning for a resilient future is
increasingly important to the Village of Sebewaing.
Resilience strategies can be incorporated throughout the
planning and implementation of many projects and
activities. Sebewaing has been forward-looking in terms
of identifying opportunities to promote the development
and adoption of climate adaptation and RESILIENCE
strategies for Sebewaing and its utilities.
Objectives:
Align Village planning efforts to the Resilience
Plan to protect infrastructure and ecosystems
o
o
In 2017, the Village of Sebewaing completed a
resiliency plan which includes an assessment of
the Village’s current vulnerabilities and outlines
recommendations for implementing resilience
efforts in the future. Given the Village’s
location along Saginaw Bay, nearly half of the
Village is located in the floodplain.
The Village of Sebewaing Resiliency Plan can be
found here:
http://www.sebewaingmi.gov/planning--resiliency.html
Resilience efforts can and should be
incorporated throughout the Village’s
planning efforts. Education is a key
component of growing resilience recognition in the community and can be a part of the
resilience planning efforts.
Work with Huron County to implement strategies recommended in the Huron County
Hazard Mitigation Plan, and support the county in future hazard mitigation planning efforts.
Align operational and capital improvements, including water quality infiltration and protecting
recreational infrastructure to the Resilience Plan
o
The Village can explore incorporating resilience efforts into the implementation of all
capital improvements.
33
�Introduction:
This chapter further articulates the Village’s goal and objective around development in their community,
specifically focused on the following two priority redevelopment areas: Historic River District and the M-25
Business Corridor. In order to set expectation for those involved in new development and redevelopment
within the Village, the following chapter, outlines the local context of the two targeted redevelopment areas.
It also includes the challenges to development as well as strategies to overcome these challenges to achieve
the community’s vision.
Historic River District
Figure 14: Historic River District Context Map
34
�Background
The Historic River District is primarily the commercial area in the Village center. This area is located along
the river on Main Street between Second Street and Fifth Street, and crossing the river on Center Street
from Sharpsteen Street at the north end and Grove Street at the south end.
The Future Land Use plan and strategies outlined for this district, build on past community conversations
and the Master Plan Public Meeting, as well as the Downtown Development Authority (DDA) Development
Plan and Tax Increment Financing (TIF) Plan 2013 - 2033. The DDA was created in 2012 to promote growth
and redevelopment in the Historic River District, and in 2013 established a development and TIF plan which
outlined 23 projects to provide a sense of place,
improve safety, promote business development,
and remove and prevent blight. The DDA TIF plan
can be found on the Village’s website at
www.sebewaingmi.gov and is available at the
Village Office at 222 N. Center Street.
The Future Land Use plan shows this area as mixed
use in what is now a strictly commercially zoned
area on both sides of the river. Permitting a
combination of commercial, residential, and light
manufacturing or assembly in this area, is intended
to encourage occupancy on all floors of a structure, adding income producing options, improved
maintenance, all enabled with zoning requirements to protect surrounding residential neighborhoods,
encourage pedestrian oriented uses, transparent facades on the ground floor, and address the building
codes and access issues associated with redevelopment of historic structures.
The area has multiple historic structures and several redevelopment opportunities. Most recently the
former Lapeer Metal Stamping site at 249 N. Center Street has been demolished and there are tentative
plans to redevelopment the site for assisted senior
living. (See plans in Appendix C on page 56) If built as
planned, this structure will provide an attractive
bookend to the Historic River District and a much
needed influx of a pedestrian population who will need
access to food, open space, and other daily needs.
Other existing uses in the district are retail, a museum
featuring the local area and commercial fishing,
doctor’s offices, including chiropractor and dentist
offices, municipal structures, religious institutions
and various other retail, but notably, no restaurants.
35
�Key Issues
The key issues facing the Historic River District are as follows:
Most of the structures are nearing 100 years old and require extensive renovation to use.
None of the structures meet the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requirements on upper
floors for public access.
Vehicular and pedestrian traffic counts are low, making it difficult to attract investment for
pedestrian oriented uses such as restaurants and personal service businesses.
While overall the Village has adequate sidewalks, some are slanted, restricting the ability to put
sandwich signs, tables, flower boxes, etc. on facades.
Many facades have historically accurate construction remaining and require reconstruction where
wood has rotted or pieces are missing.
Signage is challenging on facades in
poor repair.
There are several larger vacant lots that
if developed, would provide a consistent
and attractive walkable area at the west
end of the district.
Strategies
The strategies to address these challenges are
listed below. The Historic River District is within the Sebewaing DDA’s district. One of the goals of the Village
of Sebewaing DDA is to provide direction and resources to implement revitalization and new development
projects, therefore, the DDA will be the lead entity responsible for undertaking the following strategies,
along with the Village Planning Commission. The Village Council will also be a key entity in making decision
on the below strategies.
Update Zoning
o Rewrite the zoning regulations to establish a mixed use district, with a suitable mix of uses
and regulations to allow the area to be fully leased and occupied.
o Write design guidelines for the Historic River District to ensure redevelopment is done in a
way that highlights the historic nature of the district yet is pragmatic in scope to avoid
excess costs.
o Rewrite zoning regulations to lessen parking requirements, reward shared parking, and
move all parking to the rear of buildings or in combined lots behind buildings, except on the
street.
36
�
New programs
○ Establish a facade and signage improvement program, providing matching grants or other
incentives to building owners to
improve the appearance of the
structure according to the
adopted design guidelines.
○ Adopt a sidewalk improvement
program in the capital
improvements plan that
resurfaces parking, potentially
with crosswalks.
○ Research designating the area as a
historic district to obtain tax
credits.
Build Access and Connections
○ The Village is currently updating their five-year recreation plan, which supports providing
access to the river and water, noting connections to recreational opportunities from the
Historic River District. Creating attractive, well-designed, and safe connections to the river,
the marina, and Village Parks and campgrounds will assist in supporting both the Historic
River District and other areas in the Village.
○ Create walking and biking access with signage to the Historic River District and adjacent
uses such as the waterfront, and linking to the M-25 Corridor.
Marketing
○ Create and annually update a redevelopment ready guidebook online to showcase
properties that are ready for use, along with pertinent tax, cost, utilities and other
marketing information.
○ Market the Historic River District as a destination and a stopping point to other attractions
to the north, highlighting at least ten things that a visitor can do when visiting. The
outcomes from the MSU First Impressions Tourism Program can be used as a guide.
37
�M-25 Corridor
Figure 15: M-25 Corridor Context Map
Background
The entirety of the M-25 corridor (Unionville Road and Beck Street), extends north and south through the
Village, roughly bisecting the eastern third of the land area. The current development along this state
highway is primarily residential, with commercial uses at the north and south ends of the highway. The
existing and planned uses along this corridor require zoning and development regulations that will both
promote commercial development on the larger lots to the south and preserve the quiet, residential street
it becomes as it travels north through town and across the Sebewaing River.
The future land use planned for the corridor retains this mix of land uses and is embarking on a new zoning
ordinance that will provide more detailed development guidelines that will include access management and
basic design guidelines. The community has been surveyed extensively and requested various commercial
additions to the community that would be suitable for the M-25 Business Corridor, which is a commercially
planned and zoned area. These types of businesses could include food options, retail stores, or other
services.
38
�The M-25 Business Corridor extends from Myers Road to just south of John Street. There are also
commercial uses further north at M-25 and Pine Street. The commercial uses in these two sections vary in
size and density, particularly at the southern end of the community.
Key Issues
The key issues facing development of the M-25 Business Corridor are as follows:
The varying lot sizes and frontages available for commercial uses.
The mix of access points that create friction entering and exiting property at the southern end of
the corridor.
The cost of developing on long narrow lots is less flexible because of the driveway and parking
requirements and default building footprint that has to fit within these requirements.
The lack of consistent seasonal traffic volume on M-25 discourages development that generally
requires year round traffic to survive, such as restaurants, sporting stores and other service and
retail uses geared for Village residents and visitors.
Strategies
The strategies to address these challenges are listed below. The following strategies will be led by the Village
Planning Commission as well as the Chamber of Commerce to ensure that both strategies around zoning
updates and marketing of the area are achieved. The Village Council will also be a key entity in making
decisions on the below strategies.
Update Zoning:
○ Revise the zoning ordinance to permit zero lot line development, thereby creating the
opportunity for more innovation in the use of the lot or effectively creating a larger lot but
retaining single lot ownership if desired.
○ Add access management provisions to the zoning ordinance that rewards shared drives,
39
�
shared parking, limits the distance between drives, and specifies standards for drives so
they can accommodate deliveries from trucks or large vehicles without damaging the drive
or curb radius.
○ Rewrite parking requirements
to lessen paved surfaces,
thereby effectively increasing
the buildable area on the lot.
Less required parking also
decreases the cost of
development with less
paving, drainage, and
maintenance. This can also
help the Village work toward their resilience and sustainability goals, by reducing the
amount of impervious surfaces.
○ Write development regulations that require pedestrian transportation options that are
separated from traffic the full length of the corridor.
Marketing
○ Adopt a development marketing campaign for the corridor and specific locations that will
provide infill on the corridor to increase the density and type of uses. A mix of uses will
attract greater numbers of people as there will be something for everyone in the region.
○ Increase tourism marketing to take advantage of traffic that is attracted to beaches and
festivals to the north on M-25. Leverage existing marketing in the region to show what
people can do along the way and what is unique about Sebewaing. Signage to direct people
off the corridor and into the downtown and waterfront is also valuable.
○ Create and update annually a redevelopment ready guidebook online to showcase
properties that are ready for use, along with pertinent tax, cost, utilities and other
marketing information.
40
�The Future Land Use Map and categories are intended to be used as both guidance and a tool to shape future
planning and development efforts. Created with an eye toward future zoning updates, the Future Land Use
map reflects the anticipated needs of the Village, its residents, and visitors. It aims to maintain a rural, livable,
walkable environment while allowing the Village to control the appropriate amount, location, and type of
growth and development. The purpose of the Future Land Use Map is to:
Provide a projection of land uses for the next 20 years.
Assist in accomplishing the goals and objectives outlined in the Master Plan.
Achieve coordination of development by directing and supporting the Planning Commission
decision making process when evaluating future zoning and development proposals.
Serve as a consensus document, stating clearly the community’s vision and strategy. As a
consensus document, the Master Plan can be used to justify and align funding efforts needed to
achieve the goals and objectives.
While the Future Land Use Map conveys the Village’s desired land use for each parcel over the next
10-20 years, it is also intended to be fluid, and frequently revisited and amended as needed. As a
guide, not every change will actually take place and in most cases where a zoning change is required to
achieve the planned future land use, it will happen at the request of the landowner on their schedule.
The Future Land Use Map and categories are intended to be used to guide and direct zoning decisions.
However, Future Land Use categories do not need to match the zoning districts. In Sebewaing, the zoning
ordinance is anticipated to be updated in 2019, helping to align this guidance document with the zoning
document more clearly. See the Zoning Plan section of this Master Plan on page 35 for further discussion of
how these two documents work together.
The following includes a description of each category of uses included in the Future Land Use Map:
Single-family Residential
Single-family residential remains the most prominent land use. This land use classification is intended to
provide adequate space for single-family residences. The uses intended in this classification include onefamily detached dwellings and compatible uses such as daycare facilities, religious institutions, and other
public facilities such as libraries and municipal offices. Short-term rentals and bed and breakfasts would also
be considered appropriate for this type of land use. The prominence of single-family residential dwellings
ensures that the Village of Sebewaing continues to maintain its rural nature.
41
�Multi-family Residential
This Future Land Use designation envisions supporting higher-density residential uses, including apartment
buildings, duplexes, and condominium-style developments. The Future Land Use Plan would allow for
additional land to be designated as multi-family than shown in the current Master Plan or zoning map. The
goal of increasing land designated for multi-family is to allow the Village to diversify the availability of quality,
affordable housing for residents of all abilities and at all stages of life.
Commercial
Commercial land uses are envisioned along key roadways, accessible by car, including Pine Street and
Unionville Road. This designation includes retail and various highway and pedestrian-oriented services.
Commercial uses are grouped and focused in these areas on the Future Land Use Map more than they have
been in previous planning documents.
Manufacturing
This is the most intense land use in the Future Land Use Map. This category includes warehousing,
manufacturing, processing, as well as light manufacturing facilities such as research and development.
Supporting services for the primary uses as well as some supporting services for employees are intended to
be included in this district also. The Future Land Use Plan envisions consolidating industrial activities to the
north of the river, between the railroad tracks and Albert Street.
Mixed-use
To achieve a more walkable Village center, this plan proposes the addition of a mixed-use future land
designation. The mixed-use zone would include the current Village center, as well as the parcels around
Sharpsteen, William, and Henning Streets, which are currently characterized by a mix of industrial, vacant,
and residential uses. The mixed-use future land designation would encourage pedestrian-oriented places
that layer land uses by permitting residential and work-live spaces above business and in some cases,
industrial use. Mixed-use would also be allowable on the north side of Maple Street, between Seventh and
Tenth Streets to create a buffer between the commercial uses along Pine Street and the residential areas.
This would also be a tool to encourage additional commercial and residential development.
Recreation
According to the Future Land Use Map (pg. 43), the recreation land use designation would be at the existing
parks throughout the Village and on parcels where the land is currently used for recreational activities, such
as camping. The recreation designation would encourage the maintenance of parks, open space, water
access, campgrounds, and recreational facilities throughout the Village of Sebewaing.
42
�Figure 16: Future Land Use Map
43
�Michigan Planning Enabling Act requires that every community that has zoning must also have a Master
Plan. The purpose of this dictate is to cause the community to create a guidance document, based on
community engagement, and ideally, consensus so that zoning decisions are based on the cohesive thought
of the community as a whole. This gives the zoning, an enforceable law in the community, the publicly
accepted authority it needs to be employed and respected. Applied consistently and fairly, zoning is the
strongest and most effective land use tool a community can have.
As part of the intent of the Master Plan and Zoning Ordinance, the enabling legislation for planning requires
that the Master Plan include a discussion of how the zoning and planning documents are related and treated
as part of a comprehensive set of land use regulatory tools to carry out thoughtful development and growth
in a community.
Table 6 shows how the Future Land Use categories coincide with the zoning categories that exist now and
serves to provide interpretation direction to the planning commission regarding how to use the Future Land
Use Map. Often, Future Land Use categories are broader than zoning categories because the Plan is
intended to have some fluidity as situations present themselves and change over time. For instance, the
Future Land Use Map may show a ‘commercial’ category and the zoning map may show three commercial
categories, all of which are commercial in nature but have different intensities or densities of commercial
uses. It is up to the Planning Commission and Village Council, and sometimes rezoning applicants, to locate
the various commercial zoning categories within the more general future land use ‘commercial’ category at
the time the Future Land Use is created. In some cases, the Future Land Use and the Zoning Map will line up
exactly, often to create a definitive boundary between residential and other uses, for example.
Future Land Use category
Single Family Residential
Multi-Family Residential
Commercial
Manufacturing
Mixed Use Commercial
(proposed for inclusion)
Recreation
(proposed for inclusion)
Corresponding Current Zoning category
RA-1 One-Family Residential
RA-2 One-Family Residential
MR Multiple-Family Residential
MHP Mobile Home Park (Yet to be eliminated in zoning ordinance)
C Commercial
M-1 Light Manufacturing
M-2 Heavy Manufacturing
MR Multiple-Family Residential
C Commercial
M-1 Light Manufacturing
M-2 Heavy Manufacturing
C Commercial
RA-2 One-Family Residential
Table 6: Future Land Use and Corresponding Zoning Categories
44
�There will be times when zoning decisions are made that do not conform to the Master Plan. In these
cases, there needs to be strong justification and an immediate intent to revisit the Master Plan and
Future Land Use Map by the planning commission to revise these to reflect the modified thinking
and rationale that the inconsistent zoning decision reflects.
The Village of Sebewaing Zoning Plan shows one category that will be proposed for elimination in the zoning
ordinance and two that will be proposed for inclusion. The zoning ordinance is slated to be rewritten in 2019.
At that time, the Planning Commission expects to make these changes. Until that time, the Future Land Use
Map must reflect categories and uses that exist in the zoning ordinance so that particular land uses are not
effectively prohibited or permitted in the Plan without corresponding regulations in the Zoning Ordinance.
45
�Implementation strategies are a key component of the Master Planning process. Implementation of this
plan will take cooperation among municipal leaders, Village residents, and the private sector to carry out the
recommendations in this plan, and to continue the planning process. In addition to the three general
implementation strategies below, the tables that follow reiterate the goals and objectives developed as part
of the planning process and layout the proposed tasks, timeline, and responsible party for making the plan’s
recommendations a reality.
The implementation timelines on the following tables are a rough estimate of the number of years to
undertake the tasks for a given objective. The timeline can also be used to speak to the priority each
objective will be given. For example, the Village intends to prioritize attracting and creating additional
activities such as kayaking, fishing, hunting, and creating a year-round non-motorized trail.
Near-term: Less than 2 years
Mid-term: 2 to 5 years
Long-term: 5 years or more
A single responsible party is identified for each near-term task. The listed responsible party will take the lead
moving their task forward. However, every task will require partnership among multiple entities. The lead
responsible party will identify partners, including other municipal entities and committees, local businesses,
or land owners to support in planning and implementation of the task. The tables below will be revisited
periodically, at which time lead responsible parties for tasks that will take place in the mid- to long-term
timeframe will be identified.
Zoning Ordinance Revisions
In addition to the tasks and roles and responsibilities laid out in the table below, the zoning ordinance is the
primary implementation mechanism for the Master Plan. Given the community's goals, objectives, and
proposed future land uses, a key component of this plan’s implementation will include a comprehensive
evaluation of the zoning ordinance. This will include a revision of the zoning map to support the Future Land
Use Map. For a village the size of Sebewaing, a mix of traditional and form-based codes may work best for
the Village center to create walkability and visibility, as well as discourage non-pedestrian activities from
locating in the downtown area envisioned for mix-use zoning. The Planning Commission and Village Council,
along with all Village Departments, and in some cases community groups, are responsible for carrying out
the zoning ordinance revisions.
46
�Public Participation and Support
Public participation is essential to the planning process. In order for the community to take ownership of the
plan and for the goals and objectives to be reflective of the community’s vision, ongoing efforts should be
made to conduct outreach around the Village of Sebewaing Master Plan. Over the course of the Master Plan
planning process, Steering Committee members attended other group’s community meetings to discuss
updates to the planning process. These efforts could continue after the completion of the planning process
and adoption of the plan to ensure that the document continues to be used to guide land use decision in the
community. Additional efforts could involve continuing to provide planning updates on the village website,
in village communications, and on social media.
Continuous Planning
Sebewaing is not a static community. The planning process should evolve with time as social, economic, and
land use changes may impact the goals and objectives of the community.
In accordance with the Michigan Planning Enabling Act (MPEA), the Village Planning Commission
must review the master plan at least every five years after adoption. Not only is the review a formal
process required by the MPEA, but it also allows the planning commission to continue to build
momentum towards the future envisioned by the community and to respond to changes both internal and
external to the community. It provides a time for the planning commission to assess what tasks were
accomplished, what tasks still need to be undertaken, and what changes may impact the plan. During the 5
year review process, the planning commission will review the master plan and determine whether the plan
needs to be amended to address a change in the community. Each 5 year review and its findings should be
recorded in the planning commission meeting minutes.
47
�1. Grow TOURISM by maximizing parks and recreation assets and providing opportunities for these activities to grow Sebewaing as a destination
Objectives
Tasks
Responsible parties
Timeframe
Develop fishing,
1. Agree on suitable level of growth, impacts
birding activities, and 2. Add opportunities to local, regional, state, DNR websites, tourism campaigns
hunting
opportunities
3. Sign access points, streamline process to fish (parking, licensing, other concerns)
4. Promote proximity to state land, advertise through the state
1. Planning Commission
2. Chamber/Huron County
Economic Development
Corporation (EDC)
3. Chamber and Village Council
4. Chamber and County EDC
Promote Agritourism 1. Agree of suitable level of growth, impacts
2. Ensure proper zoning to permit retail activity, parking, bathrooms, crowds in
agricultural areas
3. Learn from southwest area of state’s agritourism trails, rules, promotions
4. Learn from Farm Bureau about needs and wants, limitations, concerns, etc.
5. Prepare marketing information to show locations, special events, fees, value of
purchasing at the source, etc.
6. Start a farmer’s market
1. Planning Commission
2. Planning Commission/Village
Office
3. Chamber/Huron County EDC
4. Chamber/Huron County EDC
5. Chamber of Commerce
6. Chamber of Commerce
Attract hotel
development and
diversify lodging
options
Agree on a suitable level of growth, impacts
Ensure available zoned land
Advertise available land on county economic development land portal (create one if
there isn’t one)
Streamline development in the village – contact point, permitting brochure
Promoting and permitting short term rental services, such as Airbnb
Pursue hotel with pool/waterpark.
Attract RV park
development
Create Village
Marketing Campaign
Near-term
Near-term
Economic Development
Planning Commission
Village Council
Chamber of Commerce
Land owners who want to sell
or develop
Long-term
Agree on a suitable level of growth, impacts
Ensure available zoned land
Advertise available land on county economic development land portal (create one if
there isn’t one)
Streamline development in the village – contact point, permitting brochure
Planning Commission
Village Council
Chamber of Commerce
Land owners who want to sell
or develop
Mid-term
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
1. Chamber of Commerce
2. Chamber of Commerce
3. Chamber of Commerce
4. Chamber of Commerce
5. Chamber of Commerce Huron
County EDC
Near-term
For outdoor activities
For a quaint town where you can eat, shop, walk, stay
Identify tag line
Utilize existing signage to welcome tourists/visitors.
Signage in areas surrounding recreational opportunities in order to promote
walkability
Table 7: Goal 1 Implementation Plan
48
�2. Develop a range of affordable, quality HOUSING
Objectives
Increase the mix of
housing
Prioritize
development of
vacant housing units
Tasks
Study housing needs based on current and projected population, demographics and
income
Establish future housing areas in the community on the master plan and zoning maps
Write regulations that reflects the type of housing desired
Learn from other communities about successful housing development, pros and cons
Encourage positive management/tenant relationships
Responsible parties
Timeframe
Economic Development
Realtors
Mid-term
Create an inventory of vacant housing units
Identify condition and priority needs
Prioritize overall needs and address in order, community wide, such as removing
Economic Development
abandoned vehicles, cleaning up outside storage, removing noxious weeds
Planning Commission
Establish Land Bank Authority in Huron County to hold property reverted for taxes
Village Council
Take ownership of property in Land Bank or outside of a Land Bank at tax sale that is
within the Village
Potentially sell tax reverted or donated properties at auction for specified use in pivotal
areas of the community
Mid-term
Table 8: Goal 2 Implementation Plan
49
�Objectives
Decrease blight in
community
Take control of
vacant, abandoned
and obsolete
property
Intentionally
promote
development of
Historic River
District and M25
Business Corridor
3. Plan for attractive commercial, residential, and industrial DEVELOPMENT throughout the Village of Sebewaing
Tasks
Responsible Parties
1. Establish dangerous buildings ordinance and/or adopt the International Building
1. Village Council/ Planning
Maintenance Code
Commission/ Police Department
2. Change blight enforcement to a police power ordinance with associated process for
2. Village Council
citations, fines and village action
3. Village Council/ Planning
3. Revise zoning ordinance to cause multifamily housing to be built with additional
Commission
safety, lighting, sight lines, etc. to deter crime and vandalism
4. Create a behavior and expectations campaign in the police department that helps
4. Police Department
people know what it means to be neighborly and which behaviors will not be tolerated
and their expected outcomes. (In Sebewaing we do not tolerate….)
5. Increase patrols and citations for drugs and violence. Become less tolerant of
5. Police Department
antisocial behavior in housing units
6. Learn from other communities about crime enforcement at the local level
6. Village Council
7. Lobby for a land bank where the county can hold foreclosed and tax reverted land
7. Village Council
instead of banks and speculators
Take advantage of the Huron County Brownfield Authority
Research methods, benefits, and drawbacks of Authority
Use available brownfield expertise to help create brownfield plans and scenarios for reuse
Create list of targeted properties: 249 N. Center Street (the former LMS property), 708
Economic Development
N. Beck Street (former Acme Roll Forming property), 232 Center Street (former
Norman’s), former gas stations, old car wash, salvage yard
DDA
Learn about Land Banks, purpose, pros and cons and promote establishment of a Land
Planning Commission
Bank for use by Huron County
Huron County Board of
Research Sanilac County Land Bank and opportunities to have a regional land bank
Commissioners
Lobby Huron County to create a vehicle for land bank use
Demonstrate value to the Village and other parts of the county through adaptive reuse
and tax benefits
Build support among other communities for a land bank
Use state and county small business development tools and incentives to attract a
bakery, restaurant, coffee shop, and promote walkability
Use state and county small business development tools and incentives to grow existing businesses
Economic Development
Continue discussion with MEDC and MSU regarding zoning for small scale businesses
Planning Commission
Permit mixed uses such as manufacturing and retail
Village Council
Focus on supply chain building for businesses and manufacturing
Chamber of Commerce
Create incentive financing fund for Center and Main Street business improvements Local Businesses
signs, awnings, flowers, etc.
Support downtown business association
Timeframe
Near-term
Mid-term
Long-term
Table 9: Goal 3 Implementation Plan
50
�4. Improve access to and use of the Village of Sebewaing’s WATER ASSETS
Objectives
Identify beach
location
Tasks
Establish working group to identify access, ownership
Identify available state funding to develop beach
Learn from Caseville and others about beach operations, funding, experiences
Consider promoting area beaches if development is infeasible (“We have it all here,
even without a beach”)
Develop water
1. Agree of suitable level of growth, impacts
recreation – boating, 2. Identify and sign access points
3. Advertise supporting businesses – renting, eating, storing, purchasing equipment
kayaking
Develop nonmotorized walking
trails and
connections from the
Village residential
and commercial
areas to the
waterfront
1. Identify routes and follow specifications in the State’s design guide to improve
safety and overall appearance of sidewalks on walking routes
2. Determine sites for implementing signage in the downtown area and residential
neighborhoods
3. Ensure facilities meet State requirements regarding ADA accessibility and safety
4. Implement a sign ordinance to encourage a standard style of signage along route
Ensure non-motorized walking trails are accessible year-round for residents and
promote winter-time use of routes including cross-country skiing or snowshoeing on
trails (mid-term)
Focus on sidewalk infrastructure improvements (mid-term)
Responsible parties
Timeframe
Economic Development
Planning Commission
Village Council
DNR
Federal Aviation
Administration
Mid- to long-term
1. Planning Commission
2. Village Council
3. Chamber of
Commerce/Huron County
EDC
Near-term
1. Village Council
2. Village Council
3. Village Council
4. Village Council
Near-term to mid-term
Table 10: Goal 4 Implementation Plan
51
�Objectives
Continue to
improve drinking
water system
Promote
collaborative
efforts among
municipalities and
agencies
5. Provide efficient and effective VILLAGE SERVICES
Tasks
1.
Replace cast iron mains
Years 0-5 finish piping project
Years 5-10 purchase water from available source
Reevaluate purchasing drinking water treatment from neighboring municipalities now
Do cost analysis and community preference study
Assess feasibility of community-wide filtration plant
Do cost analysis and community preference study
Continue to develop relationships across municipalities and agencies
2.
Attend other agencies meetings to discuss what is happening in Sebewaing and
where there are opportunities to collaborate
Responsible parties
Timeframe
Sebewaing Light & Water
Mid- to long-term
1.
2.
Village Council,
Planning Commission,
Chamber of Commerce
Village Council,
Planning Commission,
Chamber of Commerce
Near-term
Table 11: Goal 5 Implementation Plan
52
�6. Promote the development and adoption of climate adaptation and RESILIENCE strategies for Sebewaing and its utilities.
Objectives
Align planning efforts
to the Resilience Plan
to protect
infrastructure and
ecosystems
Tasks
Prepare community for extreme weather
Explore locations for cooling and heating centers
Create emergency response plans during storms
Adapt buildings
Meet flood elevation requirements
Used flood resistant construction materials, where feasible
Construct external flood walls
Locate mechanical systems on upper floors
Consider backwater valves
Protect infrastructure
Protect drinking water sources
Protect the electrical grid
Protect ecosystem
Maintain open and green space for water detention
Responsible parties
Timeframe
Light & Water
DPW
Mid- to long-term
Align operational and Water quality and infiltration
capital
Implement green infrastructure policies and projects
improvements,
Retrofit existing recreational infrastructure to protect from damage and ensure safety
including water
of recreational users
Light & Water
quality infiltration
DPW
and protecting
recreation
infrastructure to the
Resilience Plan
Mid- to long-term
Table 12: Goal 6 Implementation Plan
53
�Link to Survey Results
Full results from the Village of Sebewaing Master Plan Survey can be found at the following link:
https://www.questionpro.com/t/PDOh5ZbTq6
54
�Public Meeting Poster Boards
Poster Boards from the Public Meeting on June 7, 2018, can be viewed at the Village Office at 222 N. Center
Street.
55
�Concept Plan for 249 N. Center Street (the Former LMS Property) - Public Comment
Draft
56
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization)
Wyckoff, Mark A.
Description
An account of the resource
Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Michigan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960/2023
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a>
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Comprehensive plan publications
Master plan reports
Zoning--Michigan
Zoning--Maps
Maps
Land use--planning
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
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RHC-240
Format
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application/pdf
Type
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Text
Language
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eng
Text
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Dublin Core
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Identifier
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Sebewaing_Master-Plan_2018
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Master Plan Steering Committee, Village of Sebewaing, Sebewaing Township, Huron County, Michigan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-11-01
Title
A name given to the resource
Village of Sebewaing Master Plan
Description
An account of the resource
The Village of Sebewaing Master Plan was prepared by the Master Plan Steering Committee with assistance from the Delta Institute and was approved on November 1, 2018.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Delta Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Master plan reports
Sebewaing (Mich.)
Sebewaing Township (Mich.)
Huron County (Mich.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a>
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a>
Type
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Text
Format
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application/pdf
Language
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eng
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff2301ab38fe167a02578bf71fa7e4b6.jpg
6c4c365e691226b82e55d19b364c77b8
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f21331223023940f06de0886096650ab.pdf
d48349224aeba5586ffea907fbba05f8
PDF Text
Text
Living with PFAS
Interviewee: Renae Mata
Interviewer: Danielle DeVasto
Date: December 11, 2025
Dani DeVasto (DD) (00:00:03):
I am Dani DeVasto, and today December 11th, 2025, I have the pleasure of chatting with Renae Mata
and Lynn McIntosh. Hi Renae.
Renae Mata (RM) (00:00:13):
Hello.
DD (00:00:14):
Um, Renae, could you tell me about where you're from and you currently live?
RM (00:00:20):
I was born in Grand Rapids in 1973, so I'm 52, which will, the age thing kind of comes back around later
in this interview. Um, till I was about 18, I lived, um, pretty close to downtown Grand Rapids, uh, Boston
Square area. Then, um, moved with my parents to Standale. Spent a little time with my sister in Moline,
Michigan, and a couple seasons in Idaho. And now I live in Plainfield Township.
DD (00:00:52):
And how long have you lived in Plainfield Township?
RM (00:00:56):
Um, well, let me say, let me go back a little bit. Okay. I got married in 2001. We bought a house in Alpine
Township near the Plainfield Township border. Um, so from 2001 to 2019, we lived on Bertha Street in
Comstock Park. And then in 2019 we moved to a larger house on the other side of Division, um, in
Plainfield Township, still Comstock Park.
DD (00:01:30):
Okay. Can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community?
RM (00:01:40):
Oh, yes. All right. Here we go. Um, so I always used to love reading the Grand Rapids Press. I miss the
paper and, you know, the permanency of it and, um, you know, kind of extraneously kept an eye, you
know, tabs on what was going on locally. Um, but I was busy raising a family. I figured out that my boys
were 10 and 13 in the year 2017, which was the big PFAS year. Um, so I had a lot of distractions going
on. And, um, so let's just start at 2017, I guess 'cause that's when I got kind of pulled in. Um, I was
working as a home healthcare aide and, um, met Lynn McIntosh through her mother. And, um, took
care of Maya from 2013 to 2019.
RM (00:02:46):
1
�And very part-time 'cause I was, um, raising my kids. But, um, so I knew Lynn for a few years before, um,
she asked me a curious question and was that like summer probably? Summer of 2017. So I was there
taking care of her mom and kind of randomly, I'm not quite sure how it came out, but it was just
random, I guess to me. <laugh>, she said, so Renae, do you, do you live in Plainfield Township or
something like that? And I was like, no, Comstock Park. Um, I prob, you know, I said Alpine Township,
you know, she's like, oh, okay. And I don't recall if it was the same, that same conversation or a little
later.
Lynn McIntosh (LM) (00:03:32):
I believe it was a little later that you brought up to me that, but you had Plainfield Township water
RM (00:03:40):
Yes. So Alpine Township does not have their own water source. Um, so we've drank Plainfield Township
water since we moved in in 2001.
LM (00:03:51):
Knowing you, you probably looked up something because I had asked about
RM (00:03:55):
Well, I think that's where the Press came in. Garret Ellison's article, but that wasn't till fall. I'm not quite
sure.
LM (00:04:06):
Well, his first article came out at the end of August.
RM (00:04:09):
Oh, August. Yeah, I guess it was around that time. Um, and I ended up calling you, which we didn't talk
as friends at that point. We were just more, it was a business kind of relationship. I mean, we were
friendly and friends as much as you can be in and out like that. So I called her and I don't remember
exactly how the conversation went, but I, I said, you know, I, I am interested in what's going on with, you
know, Plainfield Township, water, whatever. And, um, yeah.
LM (00:04:38):
'cause you told me, by the way, I do live in Alpine Township, but I drink Plainfield Township water.
RM (00:04:45):
Yes.
LM (00:04:45):
And then I finally opened up to you
RM (00:04:48):
And you told me the whole spiel.
2
�LM (00:04:50):
Yes, About my other life.
RM (00:04:52):
Yeah.
DD (00:04:52):
Because at that point, did you know what Lynn had been involved with?
LM (00:04:56):
Not at all. Nothing, not a word
RM (00:04:57):
She kept it to herself,
LM (00:04:58):
And I kept it from my mother, even at the till the very end
RM (00:05:02):
And I, I would've always been with your mom when I saw you too.
LM (00:05:05):
Yeah. Nope. Never shared it with anybody. I, I had <laugh>. Yeah. I, I didn't, I especially didn't want my
mom to worry about anything.
DD (00:05:14):
So that must have been a revelation.
LM (00:05:16):
<laugh>, It was huge. It was like my double, it was like a double...
RM (00:05:18):
Yeah. It, it explained a lot of things though. 'cause I was, you know, like she seems all rather distracted
all the time. You know, piano lessons must be very taxing. <laugh>
RM (00:05:28):
No. But, um but, uh, yeah. So, um, yeah,
LM (00:05:33):
I was living a double life here, <laugh> triple life
RM (00:05:35):
3
�And that's, that's why I did bring along my little kind of resume because then all these different ties, like
this web of like, I wasn't, you weren't just Maya's daughter and I wasn't just your mom's caretaker. No. I
was like, by the way, I have, I have this other life that I used to lead.
LM (00:05:52):
Yes, that's right. Yeah. Your, your other life.
RM (00:05:55):
My other life. 'cause um, so I went, I graduated from Grand Valley, um, in 97
LM (00:06:04):
Where Rick was a teacher.
RM (00:06:06):
Yes. Um, biology major and a Natural Resources Management minor. Um, and I worked as a student
assistant at Water Resources Institute where Rick, I wasn't really under Rick, he was doing more of the
chemically stuff and I was doing more field work, but I knew who he was and he didn't remember me.
But, you know, there's students galore, you know. And, um, so I'm like, Hey, I have this past life in, um,
this is why I'm extra interested in it. So, um, with water resources. And then, so that was around mid
nineties. And then in '95 to '98, I worked for Michigan Department of Environmental Quality
Environmental Response Division as a student assistant. And I was actually working, I wrote here 35
hours a week. I didn't realize that I worked that often that much because I was taking a full, pretty full
course load too. Um, but that is where I met, I'm gonna just call him Dave O'Donnell 'cause I know he
wouldn't like that. He likes David. <Laugh> And, um, Abby Hendershot. And, um, I, I didn't work in the
same office as Janice 'cause ERD's building was actually in Wyoming because they didn't, they had run
out of room downtown. So we were in a totally different building. Um, but I had heard of Janice. I had
maybe had seen her or whatever, but, um, um, and then also a woman named Heather Hopkins who
was in charge of the Whitehall Tannery.
LM (00:07:39):
That's right. Yeah. She worked with Rick over there.
RM (00:07:43):
She worked with Rick?
LM (00:07:44):
Yeah
RM (00:07:45):
Oh, interesting.
LM (00:07:45):
I tried to get her, I was hoping she would be the one who would be the contact with this tannery.
RM (00:07:50):
4
�With a tannery background. Yeah. Okay. So, um, in that job I helped, you know, take samples from
monitoring wells. Um, I did some GIS type geographic information system mapping 'cause at that time
they were, they were trying to get the city of Grand Rapids to put some a, um, I dunno what the word is,
like a restriction or a, that you can't use Grand Rapids water. Like, people might still have private wells.
They didn't want people using those for anything, I guess. So I helped map all the different
contamination hotspots in the City of Grand Rapids.
RM (00:08:33):
Um, and I got very proficient at spreadsheets, <laugh>. So, uh, I did a lot of spreadsheeting there, which
I love by the way. Like, if life were a spreadsheet, you know, if I could, you know, without the grays of
black and white, it goes, okay, it goes in that cell and that cell only, you know, I would be a happy
camper. Anyways, so that's, that tells you a little bit about my analytical, kind of data oriented side, so.
Okay. So, um, I graduated in 97 and wrapped up my time as a student assistant with the DEQ. Um, went
off and had a couple adventures, which you're supposed to do in your twenties, right? I worked
seasonally for the Forest Service, the first season as a forestry technician. So, um, I was hiking around
measuring old growth pine trees, like, you know, literally like that big, you know, very large, um, that
year.
RM (00:09:34):
And then the second season I got a bump up to, what I really wanted to do is a biological technician. So
they paid me to, um, monitor a bald eagle's nest and, um, do birds like track down, um, some certain
raptors. And, um, yeah, Idaho's a beautiful state. I loved it. But I, um, let's see, that was till '99. And then
I met a guy <laugh>. So, and I never planned to not be away from Michigan. I mean, Michigan's
beautiful. I'm, I'm not a big fan of winter, but all my family's here, so I, that was, you know, my
adventure. And, um, so I came back and met a guy and, um, got a job with King and McGregor
Environmental, which mainly, um, they do permitting working with the DEQ. So back, you know, kind of
come around there working on the, the other, the other end. But working with DEQ to get the permits
that our clients wanted for housing developments and such.
RM (00:10:43):
Um, so I worked there for almost seven years until 2007 where I got laid off 'cause that was the
recession. And a lot of our majority of our clients were developers and stuff, stopped developing
<laugh>, like, um, that's also right before I had my first, no second son, sorry. Um, so yeah, I met, you
know, prince Charming, married him in right after, right after 9-11, 2001, had my first son went parttime at King and McGregor. Yeah. And then, um, three years later I had my second son. I have two sons
that are now 18 and 22.
RM (00:11:32):
Um, so that's when I had the career change, which that kind of leads into how I met Lynn. I wanted, you
know, my kids were young enough that I still, I knew I didn't want a nine to five job because, um, my
husband was working second shift at the time, or No, he was, he was second shift then. He was a, then
he went to first shift. Um, so we were, I wanted something opposite him. And, um, so we wouldn't have
to worry about too much daycare other, you know, other than my mom a little bit here and there to
cover. So, and the state of Michigan actually paid for my nurse aid training because I was, um, a
displaced worker as, um, laid off 'cause of the recession. So, um, and actually when I went, when I, when
I went to Grand Valley initially, I had got accepted into their nursing program. I thought I'd become a
5
�nurse, decided I didn't wanna wipe people's butts. But then I found out the nurse aids are the ones that
do that.
DD (00:12:30):
<laugh> <laugh>.
RM (00:12:31):
But, um, <laugh>.
LM (00:12:33):
That's a brilliant,
RM (00:12:35):
Yeah. Anyways. Um, but there's a place, there's a, there's a need for that. So I, um, anyways, the
flexibility is what I was looking for and, um, and helping, you know, 'cause I'm a caretaker type helper
personality too. So I got a job working very part-time at a retirement community. And then when I had
worked there quite a few years and the burnout's real and my back was, you know, feeling it, I wanted
something a little more laid back, which was more one-on-one, you know?
LM (00:13:10):
More companionship care.
RM (00:13:12):
Yeah. And, um, so then I, in 2013, got hired on by the, the personal care company that Lynn had found.
DD (00:13:23):
Leaves Personal Care.
RM (00:13:24):
Yep. And, um, got matched up with, with Maya because she was on the north end of town, same as me.
And, um, looking for evening hours, which was my availability. I was homeschooling my boys at the time,
um, during the day. So that brings us back to, um, 2017. So 2013 I started working with Maya. Four years
into that I got introduced to, um, Lynn's "Gal Noir" <laugh>,
LM (00:13:59):
My spy life.
RM (00:14:00):
Yes. Her "put the hush and hush puppy" she was, you know, and, um, she kind of pulled me in as kind of
a little her Dr. Watson to her Sherlock, right?
LM (00:14:10):
Probably so <laugh>
6
�RM (00:14:11):
Yes. And um, okay. So...
DD (00:14:19):
What did you, what were you like thinking or feeling as you were putting together these pieces of "I
drink Plainfield Township water, I'm seeing these things in the newspaper, I'm talking with Lynn," like
this is kind of what were your, like, do you remember your thoughts, your reactions?
RM (00:14:37):
Um, well, I've always been a bit of a tree hugger too. I mean, I got a natural resources management
minor and worked in that field for quite a while. So, um, definitely concerned. But I have a friend who
works at Prein and Newhof lab and the fact that Plainfield Township was always bragging about how
they won these best tasting water awards.
LM (00:15:07):
Oh yes...
RM (00:15:08):
So going by the taste and even the labs really at that time, because they didn't test for PFAS
LM (00:15:18):
They didn't start testing that till 2013.
RM (00:15:21):
Yeah, because of...?
LM (00:15:24):
It was like an emergent emerging contaminant concern.
RM (00:15:28):
Yeah. Okay. So not directly, but you were bringing your samples to Prein and Newhof at some point?
LM (00:15:33):
I was.
RM (00:15:34):
around that same time.
LM (00:15:35):
Yeah. Right around that same time I was, yeah. It's interesting though. What, what be interesting to add
on this was that my city manager talked to the director at Prein and Newhof and told them, you may not
interpret her results because we, uh, it was the city's water. I was still, they could do the sampling for
me, but they would not, they could not give me any interpretation.
7
�RM (00:16:02):
Oh, so you would get the results Just no...
LM (00:16:04):
No interpretation. Which, which like, I, I did not want. Why would a city manager, what what right
does... So I decided to, I went to Muskegon, then
RM (00:16:13):
Just changed labs
LM (00:16:14):
All the way I drive over there, like get into different county <laugh>.
RM (00:16:19):
yeah, it's too bad about that. Yeah.
LM (00:16:22):
Trace Analytical.
DD (00:16:24):
You were saying that you had a connection with Prein and Newhof and I was kind of asking generally like
your reaction to finding out.
RM (00:16:31):
Yes. Back to that. Um, so I did buy an under sink water filter after that. But a lot of it is, um, you know,
hindsight, I'm like, oh, you know, we've been drinking this since 2001. My first son was born in 2003. So,
um, I guess the fears came out because, um, I drank it while they were in utero. They had it in their
bottles. I didn't have the best milk production, so not a ton in my breast milk, which there might be a tie
with.
LM (00:17:09):
I remember you mentioning that. Yeah. They're finding ties with that.
RM (00:17:13):
Yeah. And then, um, you know, they drank water in their sippy cups, you know, and not like, I didn't
wanna give him juice and thought that was the healthy thing, you know? And so, and, um, but I
obviously we're not able to get a whole house filter. And then supposedly the levels were lower than
say, a private Well, but, um,
LM (00:17:41):
Isn't that also when Demand Action started to come into gear too?
RM (00:17:44):
8
�Yes. Okay. So I'm pulling out one of my spreadsheets and, um, not that I got involved with Demand
Action specifically, like, um, but, um, kept tabs on what was going on. So.
DD (00:17:59):
Just for the record, can you explain what demand action is?
RM (00:18:04):
Yes, it is my understanding that the main guy, Travis Brown
LM (00:18:10):
Yeah. And then, and there was another guy, Angel somebody. Angel
RM (00:18:15):
Yeah.
LM (00:18:16):
Last name is Angel.
RM (00:18:17):
Anyways, I, I don't know. That would be another good one to actually interview. He's very vocal on
Facebook. I'll, you heard...
DD (00:18:24):
I think I've seen his name.
RM (00:18:25):
Yeah. Yeah.
LM (00:18:28):
Corey Angel.
RM (00:18:30):
Corey, yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I, yeah. 'cause he actually ran for, um, a township position once
too. Yeah,
LM (00:18:36):
I think he did. Yeah. They, um, they, they, they formed probably because Corey and Travis, you know,
both shared concerns and Travis knew a lot about Plainfield Township's miserable reputation. I mean, he
knew about, he had some degree in water chemistry and knowledge and a lot
RM (00:18:58):
A lot of health issues too.
LM (00:18:59):
9
�He had a lot of health issues and he was very upset about state disposal site where they used
RM (00:19:05):
On a, on the East BeltLine. That super fund. Yeah.
LM (00:19:07):
They used air strippers 'cause there were leaks going there. And, uh, he kept track of their miserable
records of like, Plainfield Township was advised not to put in the North Kent Landfill there. And they,
Prein and Newhof, advised them to do it.
RM (00:19:25):
And his research goes all the way back to like the sixties.
LM (00:19:27):
Yeah, a lot of good input that they, a lot of good input that was objective. They ignored. And actually
they followed a lot of the advice from Prein and Newhof and Waste Management division. So he was
very upset. He knew so much. And, and Corey Angel was a lot more measured, but also very smart. And
they got this Demand Action. They had 2000 followers on their Facebook, and they are the ones who,
RM (00:19:57):
They really got the word out.
LM (00:19:59):
They're ones that got the word out. They were at the point where they were even calling on the, some
of the commissioners to resign. They put the pressure on. And, and had they not, I don't think the word
would've spread out nearly as much
RM (00:20:12):
<affirmative>. And that's how I knew about it.
LM (00:20:14):
That's how a lot of people knew about it.
RM (00:20:15):
Yeah. The pressure there.
LM (00:20:17):
Yeah. But
DD (00:20:18):
You weren't really involved with...?
RM (00:20:19):
No.
10
�LM (00:20:20):
But it educated you.
RM (00:20:21):
It educated me. Yeah. Definitely. 'cause um, I had gathered Plainfield Township Municipal Water, um,
news articles starting in, um, 2016, most of them are 2017, 2018. And, um, Grand Rapids Press, Fox 17,
WZZM Wood TV, Grand Rapids Institute for Information Democracy. Um, Michigan Radio. And, um, so
yeah, that got my ball rolling. As far as, um, like learning more, I'm very, I much consider myself selftaught in a lot of ways. It's like I'm a researcher type of personality. I just kind of jump in with two feet.
That's,
DD (00:21:11):
And this, you're, you're referencing your spreadsheet right now?
RM (00:21:14):
Yes.
DD (00:21:14):
One of the spreadsheets, that was something that you decided to do on your own, just to start tracking?
RM (00:21:18):
I don't...I love spreadsheets. I don't remember you ever asking anything like that. I just started, and
actually, um, when I worked for the, uh, for King and McGregor, um, I kind of, um, started a spreadsheet
that was not related to PFAS, but, um, I just decided, decided to create an organizational spreadsheet
because, you know, there was, um, too much stuff scattered around. So I, that's my, my nature to just
like, to compile, you know, and, and then to be able to educate people more easily that way too, instead
of going, you know, this, you know. So
LM (00:21:52):
Would you say that Demand Action was like, accelerated your education in certain ways to Plainfield? Or
not necessarily?
RM (00:22:03):
Yeah. I don't think, like, I'm just counting how many, um, of these news articles have Demand Action ties
so, um, let's see, October, 2017, trustees in Plainfield Township hear concerns about water
contamination. I'm sure that was Demand Action. Um, so October, November, December, January 7th,
2018, residents, Plainfield residents say township board is practicing intimidation. Um, "you owe us
more." Residents tell Plainfield Township. So, yeah, I'll, like, if they hadn't put the heat on, The pressure,
they, it would still, they, you know, until they get the heat, they're not, you know, they're not gonna,
LM (00:22:50):
They wouldn't have that filtration system if the citizens hadn't put the pressure on.
RM (00:22:53):
11
�Yeah. Right.
LM (00:22:56):
But then just, just to bring up, it was interesting that as part of CCRR, you also talked to Plainfield
Township in 2017. We talked about that earlier with AJ.
RM (00:23:09):
Oh, yes. That, um, the small little boardroom meeting. Yes. I'm picturing a bigger one. Yes. Yeah.
DD (00:23:17):
So you, I'm just thinking about this in time. So you're, you've had your conversation with Lynn. You've
learned about PFAS work and concerns about Plainfield Township water. You're starting to educate
yourself and track these newstories. Yeah. Then what?
RM (00:23:36):
Let me look at my notes here.
LM (00:23:39):
How afraid were you at that point?
RM (00:23:42):
Um, I don't think, I, I don't think fear would be a good word. Um, I do remember you, there was
something about a FOIA in City of Rockford once you, you had asked me to get involved with like, and I
was like, you know, I'm okay to do this, but Lynn, the cat's pretty much out of the bag. You know what I
mean? I don't think we need to be secret. You know, you were so used to being secretive about
everything. And just like, I think another one of the interviews that you did, somebody said the genie
was outta the bottle, you know, and cat outta the bag. And, um, I ended up, well, can maybe somebody
else do that? You know, <laugh>? So, um, yeah. At that point, once the cat's outta the bag, then the, the
fear thing isn't an issue. It's more like, all right, what do we do next? Let's fight it. I guess
LM (00:24:32):
I meant for your children,
RM (00:24:33):
Fear for my children. Um, I think when we went to the pediatrician, I, I educated, I, I'm very much a
realist, so I don't, you know, there's a fearmongering. I don't get into too much, but I am also a realist.
And I know stuff happens. I work in cancer data. I wear my fight to end cancer t-shirt to, um, fight to end
blank fill in. You know what I mean? But yeah, when we went to the pediatrician, I was like, by the way,
they've been drinking PFAS, um, all their life, including when they were a few cells old, you know? And,
um, my husband happens to have cholesterol issues, which probably exacerbated, um, potentially by
the PFAS we drank. But, um, also some genetic factors there, as you know. But as far as my boys
inheriting some of that familial stuff, but, um, so yeah, testicular cancer is a cancer generally of younger
men and teenager teenage boys. So, um, I was definitely making my, their pediatrician aware that. You
know, want you to be extra vigilant and, um, yeah. Uh, I guess that's all I can think at the moment for
the boys. Yeah. Okay. Let me look at my notes here. Highlight some of the things I've already talked
12
�about. So I, um, um, and if we have time, I'll get into the Parkinson's thing. But I mainly wanted to focus
on Plainfield Township Water.
RM (00:26:37):
And City of Rockford Water. Have you interviewed anybody that drinks City of Rockford Water before?
What is it, 2000, 2001, where they switched from the Rogue River? Do you interview?
DD (00:26:49):
No, I have not.
RM (00:26:50):
Oh. I'm also advocating for them too. It's just like Lynn advocated for Plainfield Township. Um, I got the
okay from my friend Megan Force and her mom, Dawn Force. They grew up in the city of Rockford. She's
a little younger than me, probably, um, maybe four years younger, I would say. And she happens to be
my hairdresser. That's how I know her. Me and me and the boys. Um, yeah, let's just jump into the city
of Rockford thing. Since I talked about Plainfield. We can come back around to Plainfield, but, um,
sounds good. Um, yeah. And Megan okayed my use of her name. 'cause you never know how private
people wanna be or, um, you know, litigation or whatever out there.
RM (00:27:36):
So, um, Megan in 2016, in her, that was probably her early forties or late thirties, um, she was diagnosed
with a rather nasty thyroid cancer, which I believe Sandy Wynn Stelt also had thyroid cancer. And now,
just in the last, um, six months, Megan's mother, Dawn has also been diagnosed with thyroid cancer,
which I see, you know, when PFAS has talked about, where they talk about thyroid disease, but I don't
know that I've seen thyroid cancer. Yeah? Okay. It is a definite, yeah. Um, so in 2000, not 2001, 2000,
the city of Grand Rapids, city of, sorry, Rockford switched from drawing their drinking water out of the
Rogue River, which was just downstream of the tannery, 300 yards down, the, in the inlet to suck the
water to their treatment plant.
LM (00:28:48):
Never treated.
RM (00:28:50):
well, they treated it to some degree. They didn't just.
LM (00:28:53):
Yes. They never treated for PFAS.
RM (00:28:55):
Right. Because it wasn't really, it wasn't a thing, even though Scotchgard was invented. I looked this up
in 1956, and they had been using it since probably this.
LM (00:29:05):
58.
13
�RM (00:29:06):
58. Okay.
LM (00:29:07):
Yep. That's when they started,
RM (00:29:09):
that's when the, the hush puppies basically, or whatever they were making at that time,
LM (00:29:13):
Yep, the year I was born.
RM (00:29:14):
Oh, that was your birth year, <laugh> '58, huh? So, um, Megan being born in the late seventies, it must
be, she drank it, it for her growing up years. And she lived downtown uh, near downtown Rockford. Um,
and then she, she told me, you know, as she's my hairdresser, so you talk, you know, you talk about stuff
like that. And she knew my background. Um, she said, the surgeon said it was one of the nastiest looking
growths, obviously not just some slow growing, you know, like something caused that nastiness to yeah.
Just, you know, and especially I think, I don't know exactly how old she was, but, um, like I said, late
thirties, early forties, I have to do the math. But, um, uh, definitely a tie there, I'm sure. And, um, so as,
as far as I know, Lynn has advocated for Plainfield Township, and she's attempted to advocate for City of
Rockford people. But because it was so long ago, is that the bigger issue, or ?
LM (00:30:41):
Well, Dani and I, I just wrote a note, I wanna get this to her, but the city of Rockford did not express any
curiosity or, or concern about, they never pushed to learn more. They just, and there's another whole
little story there with both city managers.
RM (00:30:59):
Ignorance is a bliss sort of thing?
LM (00:31:02):
Yeah. They, they did not come alongside and express concern. Like, well, that was in the past. But what's
been heartbreaking for me is knowing people in my neighborhoods who have suffered some of these.
And I see it more
RM (00:31:17):
Cancers mainly. Are you...?
LM (00:31:18):
Yeah. And I, I tried, I don't know if you went with me, we went to a few events together, but you
remember you went to that one with that person. I'm talking about the, the one who had colon cancer.
We met at the library. We were wearing the same blue shirts, and we went there and she was trying to
garner interest in, in educating people about it. And she kind of was involved for about a year. And she
14
�wrote a letter to the editor, challenging Rockford's attitude about, ignorance, laissez fair, and all that.
And I, I have to get that contact information, but I remember attending that with you. And I remember
there was a, a representative there too, Deb Avens who was running to be a Kent County commissioner,
because she had to have her thyroid removed. 'cause she lived in Plainfield Township.
RM (00:32:17):
So, and remind me, was it Courtney Carrigan or was it another different Courtney that also...Because I
haven't listened to her, um, interview yet, but I'll have to
LM (00:32:26):
No, I'd like to get you to another person.
RM (00:32:28):
She, she grew up in rockford?
LM (00:32:31):
No, it was, it was the one you and I that I, whose name was like Briana Mezuk. She's the one who grew
up in Rockford and believes that she got cancer in her thirties because of drinking the water. Yeah. So
she was, she minced no words at the first public meeting. In fact, there's an article about that first
public, second public meeting at the high school. I think she was quoted in that. And then her letter to
the editor, which weigh in on someone who has a background in, you know, um, at, um, what's the
word for studying...Epidemiology? Yes. Someone who grew up in Rockford attended, drove over from
across the state to attend this public meeting, made public comment, followed up with a letter to, to the
editor, then followed up with trying to organize that one event. Do you remember the, the audio-visual
wasn't working and it was a while back.
RM (00:33:28):
At the library?
LM (00:33:29):
Yeah, at the, at the, uh, middle school we went.
RM (00:33:32):
Middle school.
LM (00:33:33):
And you went with me.
RM (00:33:35):
Wasn't it on your birthday or something? On your birthday?
LM (00:33:38):
15
�No, on my birthday was when Michigan, we made public comment about the MCLs. This was earlier
than that. It was probably 2018. And she was trying to generate interest locally about this issue, about
Rockford's drinking water, trying to get some traction.
RM (00:33:53):
Have you, have you heard any...that she kind of...
LM (00:33:56):
I need to get back to her. I, yeah. And it's on my list right now. Yeah. For Dani, because I think it's
important to acknowledge that Rockford really the laissez fair attitude. It's like, let's just move on. Yeah.
DD (00:34:16):
So you are, you know, it's 2017 you found out about the water. You've started doing some of this
research on your own at home and educating yourself. Um, what else were you up to? What happened
with and after that?
RM (00:34:32):
Well, I'm, I'm glad Lynn was here to remind me about various, um, meetings I went to with her and, um,
and one at Plainfield Township without her. Um, that was a pretty important meeting 'cause AJ, the
lawyer and Rick Rediske, um, I lent them the credibility of being the Plainfield Township resident of like,
alright, it's not just outside people creating trouble. Um, and I remember I had printed up an article, I
had found, um, because the township was still saying, oh, we're still looking for a new well field still.
We're looking for a new well field. And I'm like, it seemed pretty obvious to me that they weren't gonna
find it. You know what I mean? So I was more on kind of on the filtration, um, aspect in this paper. I
brought, I, I was gonna try to find it, but didn't have time.
RM (00:35:27):
Um, it just, it talked about how many thousands and thousands of not just the PFAS family, but of
chemicals that, you know, you don't necessarily test for. You don't even know the, how, you know the
specifics about them. 'cause, um, and the article was something about 10,000, um, chemicals that aren't
even tested for. You know what I mean? So it's like I was, I, I handed that to them and I said, you know,
even if you get this PFAS thing under control, what, what's the next thing that you're gonna find that you
haven't, these filters aren't pulling out or whatever. So to be more vigilant on, um, being up on what the
newest nasty out there that's either a new chemical or one that they're just realizing is, you know, like
asbestos, they thought it was this great insulator and working in cancer data, they found out, you know,
it gives you mesothelioma, lung cancer.
RM (00:36:29):
Um, so that, I thought that was a pretty important, um, meeting. And they did end up getting the grant
and spent some of our tax money, you know, 'cause I've seen my water bill going up over these past few
years too, because the grant doesn't cover everything. And, um, yeah, it's the citizens that end up
picking up the, uh, the bill for this sort of stuff. So,
DD (00:37:01):
and the grant is for looking for a new well or...?
16
�RM (00:37:04):
The grant was for the fancy filters that they put on. Yeah. And then, then they had a lot of visitors from
other, um, cities, states, and even out of country to look at this filtration system because, um, realizing
that, you know, they say how ubiquitous is the word that PFAS, et cetera are, there's really not clean
water left is my, you know, like if it ubiquitous is a pretty big word.
RM (00:37:36):
You know, and if the polar bears in the Arctic circle or whatever have PFAS, then um, we just have to
filter it. And like at a different township meeting, I did a that's right. I did get up there and um, I made a
public comment about my children having drank this water since in utero in the water, in their bottles
and et cetera. Like I said earlier, as you know, my impact statement basically. And, um, and uh, like
switching to Grand Rapids water isn't a solution either. 'cause then the township supervisor said, well,
they Grand Rapids. It kind of opened my eyes. I hadn't really heard much about microplastics. So that's
the newest thing I educated myself on. 'cause he's like, well, Grand Rapids has their own issues like
microplastics. And I'm like, microplastics? You know, and 'cause that's really come about in the last how
many years?
RM (00:38:29):
Few few years. Pretty recent. Pretty recent. And how they, they think the average person has a credit
card's worth of plastic in their brain. Have you heard that stat?
DD (00:38:39):
That's awful.
RM (00:38:40):
Yeah. So I don't like to hyperfocus on just one bad guy. You know, I, the big, I'm kind of a big picture
person. Um, you know, like Lynn's mentioned before, you know, they originally were looking at
chromium or, you know, these other tannery associated chemicals, which can be just as bad, you know,
maybe not last in the body as long, but they can, you know, it's, um, it's not just PFAS. It's basically, you
know, we're talking about PFAS here because it's, um, different than a lot of these, you know, with a,
such a long term effect. And, um, yeah. When it's called a forever chemical that is fear producing, you
know, so.
DD (00:39:28):
Did you keep drinking Plainfield Township water once you knew that there was a problem?
RM (00:39:36):
Well, we got one under sink filter for the kitchen, um, you know, separate little spigot, and we used that
for our drinking water for the most part. But, you know, we maybe still fill the spaghetti pot from the
regular filter. I mean, this, um, you know, before they put the fancy filter on, it's not like we were buying
drink, um, bottled water. So it's like, what's your choice? You know? And then you find out that bottled
water has PFAS too, and probably microplastics. And so, um, that's, that's not an answer either. So, um,
yeah. So we had a three stage Aquasana water filter. I forgot what year we installed that. Pretty, pretty
quickly after all this. And then, um, but you know, of course, you know, we were still showering and
their skin and, um, laundry and you know, we, like I said, we just had the one undersink filter, so
17
�DD (00:40:36):
You've, you've mentioned that you had spoken about concerns for your children. Did you ever have
concerns for yourself?
RM (00:40:45):
Well, that's a good segue, <laugh>. Thank you. Um, you know, now I'm 52 and I, you know, I feel like
I've, I've lived a good share of my life. Of course I'm not old, but, um, whatever your definition of old is,
<laugh>. But, uh, it keeps getting pushed back farther and farther. But, um, yeah, always have been
pretty healthy. Not never on meds or have any health issues that really caused me any major. You know,
I just went for my yearly physical and had, um, uh, no concerns really. I mean, I figured it was probably
too little too late anyways, because by the time I'd been drinking it since 2001 and all my other
environmental exposures that, um, you know, just living in a developed country, you know. Um, but
okay. Here's our segue to, um, if you had done this interview with me before March 25th, 2025, I
would've pretty much been done with what I wanted to say for the most part.
RM (00:41:58):
But that is the date that I was diagnosed with young onset Parkinson's Disease. And, um, I am a realist,
like I mentioned before, and I, I just tend to jump in with two feet. And, and actually I had, I had actually
jumped into the Parkinson's thing a few years ago because I have a very strong family history of it. So I
was already fascinated with kind of like maybe the genetic, um, factors there. My dad had it, his sister,
um, their mother, my grandmother had essential tremors. So when I got a tremor a year or two ago, I
was really hopeful it was an essential tremor, you know? 'cause sometimes people just get a little shaky,
you know? Not necessarily at age 50 or 49, however old I was. But, um, you know, I always kind of half
joked between the three of us siblings, you know, probably one of us is gonna get Parkinson's, you
know, um, and I won the lottery there. Hopefully my other two older siblings don't get it. Um, so I have
a, a strong family history. So, um, um, so how that ties in with PFAS.
RM (00:43:14):
So in, um, in 2019, I, I, I, um, 2018, I, I got a, I kind of changed careers from the, um, nurse aid thing
'cause burned out in my body, you know, I knew I couldn't do it for the rest of my life. And so I got a,
went to Ferris and got a certificate in cancer Information management. Always been fascinating 'cause
who hasn't been affected by cancer. Um, my husband's, uh, 28-year-old brother died of a rare sarcoma
that may or may not have been from, um, pesticide exposure 'cause they grew up, um, in migrant
housing and up north. With pesticides and such. Um, so I, you know, I've always been kind of concerned
for my husband with, he was out weeding fields from age 10 and up, you know, um, that exposure. And,
um, so how that ties in, you know, so I was a researcher for cancer and, you know, I'm looking at
people's medical records all day and, um, educating myself, and not just cancer.
RM (00:44:20):
And, um, and just recently since I was invited to do this interview, kind of arranged with Lynn's help.
Thank you, Lynn. And, um, I've just kind of delved into this. I work with cancer registry. So in 1971, Nixon
passed, you know, kind of a law like the war on cancer, which there's been different, there's a war on,
you know, war on Parkinson's or war, you know, sort of thing too. Um, that's been more recent. But,
um, so hospitals and such are required to, to report their cancer cases to state and national registries. So
that's what I deal with. I deal with pulling that information out of people's medical records and putting
it, you know, it's not even, it's sort of de-identified, I guess, you know, the, when it, when it gets to
18
�public, um, access of that sort of statistics. But, um, so that got me thinking about, um, cancer isn't the
only thing out there that's caused by environmental contaminants.
RM (00:45:40):
That's, it's been established with Parkinson's that, um, that they, they actually know, they figured out
that it's actually a higher number than they thought was genetically related. So I did do some genetic
testing, which surprisingly came back negative for the known monogenic causes of Parkinson's. So
there's like top seven mutations that, that is a definite connection with getting Parkinson's, especially
like young onset. Um, and, um, I did, I tested negative for those, and then they did an additional panel of
like 21 additional genes that are associated with Parkinson's, Parkinsonism, whatever you wanna call it.
And that was also negative, but educating myself, I've always been fascinated with genetics, you know,
and the epigenetic thing is that those top seven singular genes that I could have inherited, which, you
know, I could, there, I could have one bad guy that they just haven't discovered yet.
RM (00:46:46):
Because even with cancer, they find different mutations, not just the BRCA, the BRCA is the main, is the
well-known one, but. With cancer. Um, so yeah, I could potentially have, you know, since I have such a
big family history, potentially have an unknown bad guy or, um, there's, it could be polygenic just in, like
my husband has high cholesterol that runs in his family. He, you know, when his twenties, you know,
kinda a younger onset of high cholesterol and all the stuff that comes along with heart disease. And, um,
so I may may very well have two genes working, what's the word? Um, together, together in tandem.
Yeah. Together, um, to cause my trigger to get Parkinson's to be more sensitive to environmental
contaminants. Um, genetically predisposed. Yes. So, I mean, and I had looked into it. My dad was
officially diagnosed, I think in his early seventies, but I'm sure he had it at least 10 years before that he
didn't have, have really have a tremor.
RM (00:48:03):
So if I hadn't gotten my tremor, I would, I, right now I could be sitting here not knowing I had Parkinson's
because I didn't give the tremor. But all this other stuff that I've been chalking up to perimenopause and
long COVID and like, 'cause I lost my smell with COVID. So I'm like, well I've, maybe it's just long COVID
all this more cognitive and mood issues that I was dealing with. 'cause it's not just a tremor. Um, so, you
know, to turn my lemons into lemonade, I've gotten involved just in the, it's not even been a year yet,
you know, nine months or whatever that since my diagnosis with, um, kind of educating and not really
the advocating yet, but the educating of others. First of all, what Parkinson's is, being not just a tremor,
like my, I sent you that, the iceberg, because there's so many, um, symptoms that of course, you know,
I'll, if you have 'em, you don't necessarily have Parkinson's.
RM (00:49:09):
But, and there can be overlap, but people with Parkinson's can have a lot more than meets the eye. I
don't know if you have any family members with Parkinson's or know...?
DD (00:49:21):
I don't have any family members with Parkinson's.
RM (00:49:23):
or know anybody closely?
19
�New Speaker (00:49:25):
Yeah, I do know a few people.
New Speaker (00:49:26):
Yeah. So, um, I've done a little writing, which I don't consider myself a writer. I love more technical stuff,
but I've, I apparently have a little bit of a flare for it. You know, I sent you the one article, but more nuts
and bolts and, um, so the lemonade, lemons into lemonade, um, this interview and kind of like, well, is
there a Parkinson's registry? You know, like cancer registry? And, um, I sent you that. I found out just
right before I sent that to you, I'm like, oh, California, Utah and Nebraska have Parkinson's registries.
RM (00:50:02):
And California specifically had talked about Parkinson's hotpots, and I'm like, with cancer, cancer
clusters. I'm like, Hmm. And, and somebody offhandedly mentioned to me at some Parkinson's
gathering, they're like, oh, so maybe that's why there's so many people in West Michigan with
Parkinson's. And I'm like, wait, what really? What, what did you just say? You know what I mean? So
that's kind of whet my Sherlock Holmes, I guess of like <laugh> my, my data mind, um, to go Well, um, I
listened to Kevin Elliot's, um, interview that you did, and he said, he talked about substantial scientific
uncertainty. You know, they base, you know, the, of course the essence of science, there's always gonna
be some sort of uncertainty, but substantial, I guess was the key word. So if you're gonna use the excuse
of no data, let's try to fix that. You know what I mean?
RM (00:51:06):
Like, oh, it might be tied to Parkinson's, you know, PFAS tied with Parkinson's too, but the absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence. So how can we get the evidence, the data, um, because when
somebody says there's no reported problems, that's not good enough for me. You know what I mean?
Like, um, I, uh, yeah, we talked about how these government people like kind of fein or the lawyers or
whatever, whoever you're talking about, fein ignorance or, or they, well, we don't know. You know,
that's, I'm not the type to just be, oh, we don't know, then just stick my head in the sand. You know, it's
like, yeah, it sucks to have Parkinson's and I, I maybe overanalyze it, but at the same time, just like Lynn,
maybe people thought she was overanalyzing what was going on with Wolverine and so forth.
RM (00:52:13):
Um, it just seems like a no-brainer that, um, PFAS in Parkinson's needs to be delved into more deeply.
DD (00:52:28):
The role of PFAS?
RM (00:52:29):
The role of PFAS, especially since it's such a forever chemical and it's shown to be a neurotoxin. Um, and
one of the things I've researched for one, one of the articles I wrote was about brain first versus body
first origins. And, um, that was eyeopening to me because, you know, you assume it starts in the brain,
you know, maybe a lot of Parkinson's people lose their sense of smell from Parkinson's, like the olfactory
bulb. But there's lots of research lately about how it could start in your gut and then travel up your
vagus nerve to your brainstem. Yeah. So poor gut health, leaky gut, all that. And what if you're putting in
20
�your gut could affect getting, you know, the incidence prevalent or whatever incidence of increasing
your risk.
RM (00:53:19):
Especially, you know, if you have that genetic predisposition. I'll have to send you that article.
DD (00:53:24):
That's wild.
RM (00:53:26):
I know. And then there was another article I haven't even read, it was quite long. I haven't read about
how your gut microbiome is. So they, they're just learning so much about how instrumental those are in
your general health. You know, not you just, you think of them as digestion, but, um, some of them
might help take PFAS out of your body or some, you know, if you have poor gut health, you know, or low
by low amount of the good bacteria. And, um, you're more susceptible for, um, nasties to maybe travel
up your vagus nerve to your brainstem, for example. So, um,
DD (00:54:12):
So you've been kind of throwing yourself into this new research project, it sounds like.
RM (00:54:16):
I tend, I tend to do that, which isn't always necessarily good for my physical and mental health, but,
DD (00:54:25):
And is this this kind of been since your diagnosis or were you starting to do this work before?
RM (00:54:32):
Not in relation to PFAS, but actually, um, I like to promote Michael J. Fox has a data study called PPMI.
Um, I could look up what exactly that stands for, but basically anyone, any adult can join it. And I
actually joined it in 2022. Um, I think that's around the time that I noticed a twitch behind my right knee.
And I, I didn't necessarily, you know, a lot of it's hindsight, you know, like Huh. Subconsciously or
whatever. But I had looked into, um, you know, 'cause Michael J. Fox has helped just bring the, the
Parkinson's to the forefront, just like with Lynn and PFAS here in this area. And, um, so since 2022, I've
been, um, taking data surveys every three months so they can, um, track progression. Like, 'cause so I, I
started it when I wasn't diagnosed. Then there's like, you know, you keep asking you every time, "Have
you been diagnosed?"
RM (00:55:29):
No, no. And then finally I said, yes, you know, 'cause I got diagnosed and my got my sister to do it. She
hasn't been diagnosed. And hopefully it won't be, but to compare, you gotta have your control of who
doesn't get Parkinson's. So if, if you'd like to join PPMI, I can send you info. 'cause um, they need that,
you know, kind of, you know, the, the non-Parkies that, um, uh, and actually that that ties in like
jumping in with both feet. I joined a clinical trial, which, um, they actually compare their, the date of
their, um, they compare what they're finding out from my blood tests or brain scans and comparing it to
21
�some of the data that's been gathered through PPMI to say this, I'm taking a neuro antineuroinflammatory pill that's hopefully will slow my Parkinson's, but that's kind of subjective, you know.
RM (00:56:38):
So they do, they do draw blood to see if my inflammasomes, you know, these inflammatory markers,
how they respond or don't respond. You know, like it could be on the placebo too. It's one of those. So,
um, but the PPMI is helpful to have something to compare, you know what I mean? Such a big data set
to, um, to know how people tend to progress. But my neurologist said, if you've seen one Parkinson's
patient, you've seen one Parkinson's patient. Because it's so variable. And that's the tricky part of
Parkinson's is like young onset generally progress slower, but not always. So, um, and
DD (00:57:19):
Then I'm sure if you're trying to link in PFAS, it just makes it all the trickier.
RM (00:57:24):
Yeah. And like, and I kind of put PFAS to the back burner, you know. But now this is kind of brought it to
the front burner, which it, you know, like it is what it is. And I'm, like I said, I'm a realist and, um, yeah, I
went, I went through the stages of grief and probably still am going through a, a, you know, potential
loss of abilities and, and a lot of hindsight stuff like, oh, that's why I, you know, it wasn't just necessarily
like seasonal effective disorder, why I'm, my anxiety and depression have increased and, you know what
I mean? 'cause of my, my dopamine, my serotonin, my norepinephrine, um, I showed, I showed Lynn
this graph, which she's like, oh, you have to need to unsee that. And I'm like, yeah, I wish I could. It says
that by the time you have your motor symptom, you've already probably lost up to 70% of your
dopamine producing neurons.
DD (00:58:18):
Wow.
RM (00:58:18):
Yeah. So it's not just like, oh, you get a tremor. Oh, now you have Parkinson's, you've had Parkinson's,
and now it's just finally enough death of which I was thinking that Parkinson's is almost like a reverse
cancer in a way, because instead of cells proliferating these alpha nucleon misfolded proteins are going
in your body and killing off stuff and causing a tremor causing, um, my right leg. I don't, I don't take as
big of a step with my right leg. And, um, when I, when I walk without thinking about it, my right arm
doesn't swing. And, you know, my loss of smell might be from the Parkinson's also, even though my
husband can't smell either from the COVID from in 2021. But, um, anyways, to kind of wrap up, um,
what my newest, I guess not really tangent, um, about how, I dunno, what, what was your, your wrap up
question of, um, I think you kind of asked it already, but
DD (00:59:27):
What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward?
RM (00:59:30):
Moving forward? Um, yeah, Lynn's comment about, I don't know, I think she maybe maybe said it off
the record, but, um, about like Tobin's family thinking that, assuming, you know, that terrible word of
22
�assuming that their treated Plainfield Township water after they got put on that expensive, you know,
extension of Plainfield townships, um, waterlines. Assuming that first of all, that government's gonna
take care of you to the extreme. You know, they, they, you know, that's not a, not a thing. And, um, just
to be more aware and, and, uh, and you can't, you can drive yourself crazy with like, oh, should I eat
this? Not eat that, drink that, not drink that. And that's no way to live either. So it's a balance. It's
definitely a balance. Like just with my Parkinson's, it's like I really shouldn't be eating sugar and carbs.
'cause you know, especially gluten, it's a, it's an inflammatory substance.
RM (01:00:41):
Do I still eat some, I eat a lot less of it, but I put sugar in my tea. And, um, so that's still a struggle for me.
I don't, you know, especially with being only 52 and I have potentially 30 some years, my dad passed
away when he was almost 86 with Parkinson's, so it's won't necessarily shorten my life, but do I even
wanna live till I'm 90 with being stuck in a nursing home? And like, he, it was a very traumatic time with
my dad being stuck in a nursing home during COVID. Didn't get to see him butt through a window for a
year. So I could, I, I won't go down that rabbit hole, but, um,
DD (01:01:23):
Well maybe thinking about rabbit holes, is there anything else that you want to touch on or go back to
before we wrap up? Or things that we didn't get to bring up?
RM (01:01:31):
Right. Um, let me just look at my notes
RM (01:01:40):
Because one of the things with Parkinson's is it can affect, not necessarily your long-term memory, like
Alzheimer's, but, um, I remember Googling adult onset ADD before I was diagnosed on like, what is
going on? Like, I felt like I was getting ADD and I'm like, isn't that usually, you know, you get diagnosed
when you're hyper kid or whatever, but like, especially with women, a lot of times, you know, I'm
probably, I might have some ADD too, but it's more of a mental ADD, but then add in Parkinson's and
I'm gotta refer to my notes and cues and such.
RM (01:02:17):
You know, I've pretty much touched on all my notes. I guess getting back to Parkinson's registry and like
how finding Parkinson's hotspots, like I think it was, um, Bob Delaney that was talking about his
interview about autism along highways. I'm like, that, that was eyeopening to me. So I'm very interested
in maybe advocating, and I'll probably jump in with two feet and like advocating for a Michigan
Parkinson's registry like California has. And, um, of course that takes money, you know, money, you
know, as much as we hate, you know, oh, evil corporations and blah, blah, blah. You know, money does
make the world go round in some respect. Obviously some, um, CEOs take it to the extreme to, like,
money's more important than people's health. Um, but, uh, yeah. So I, I'll I'll keep you updated on that.
<laugh>.
DD (01:03:19):
please do.
RM (01:03:21):
23
�so. Um, oh, 'cause oh, and ADD 'cause you know the autism and like ADHD, um, ADD has also been
linked to dopamine issues and surprisingly enough, so I dunno if you've heard that. Hmm. So it is a
dopamine thing potentially, or part of it with, um, ADD. So, um, you know, the explosion of autism and
ADD, you know what I mean? Like ADHD, uh, then we have, you know, putting kids on all these meds
'cause I've, I've never been a pop a pill person and I'm a little conflicted about this clinical trial, but I'm
like, Hey, if it'll slow my Parkinson's, why not throw, throw the kitchen sink at it, sort of thing. So, yeah.
RM (01:04:08):
Yes. So I think that's, I guess my, my last little note I said, um, had a little flow chart of, um, you know,
just like my little Plainfield township, Lynn's city of Rockford and private wells, and then, oh, that's, we
don't have time to get into this, but, um, the health study that they did. That's Lynn really advocated and
I, I, I volunteered for it too. I really wanted to be a part of that. This, it was a few years ago now, right?
And, um, there's, I think there's still a place for the 40,000 people that have been drinking Plainfield
Township water, um, to have participation in some sort of study. Um, obviously you have to, you have to
cap it somehow, you know, and, but, um, but again, they're data, right? Like, just like money makes the
world go around in a lot of ways.
RM (01:05:11):
You know, if, if you don't have the data, then you, they throw up their hands and Oh, well we don't
know. And I'm like, you know, that's... And I saw a little ad for, you know, these ugly Christmas sweaters
and, um, this one said I was, I told my boys, I'm like, I would actually wear this sweater. It said, "this calls
for a spreadsheet." And that's like, you know, if I could spreadsheet, you know, Parkinson's prevalence
incidents and, you know, with, with geographic information systems, GIS mapping, hotspots, you know,
just like with cancer clusters and apparently autism, you know, and, and now it was fascinating too
about the upper class people getting, um, having more exposure to PFAS with the Scotchgarded carpets
and such. But, um, yeah. So, oh, so my flowchart said, yeah, you start with township and city. Can I go to
the county? 'cause that was like a Kent County. Um, did they limit that? Do you know much about that
health study? I, I looked into it, but I've forgotten a lot of it. But I've.
DD (01:06:16):
They've done a couple different health studies...
RM (01:06:17):
North Kent. Yeah. There's been different ones, you know, and affecting Michigan and their governance.
And then, you know, we've had, um, Italy and Japan and what other countries can you think of that have
been...?
DD (01:06:28):
Australia.
RM (01:06:30):
Australia that's been very, um, 'cause besides Wurtsmith, um, this epicenter has really helped explode
the testing and the knowledge. I mean, right? <Laugh>.
DD (01:06:47):
24
�Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
RM (01:06:50):
Yeah. So, so yeah. Alright. I guess that's about it.
DD (01:06:56):
Well, thank you so much, Renee, for taking the time to talk with me today.
New Speaker (01:06:59):
You're very welcome.
25
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/468d76fb663640a3710095dfd16ac3ac.mp3
0053b46eff4e1dd3b7ecd18dae7213be
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Living with PFAS Interviews
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Devasto, Danielle
Description
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Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024).
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PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals)
Groundwater--Pollution
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Renae Mata, 2025 (Interview audio and transcript)
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Renae Mata describes drinking Plainfield Township water for years before learning it was contaminated with PFAS and reflects on the health implications for her family. She also discusses her later diagnosis of early-onset Parkinson’s disease and the questions it raises about long-term environmental exposure.
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-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/59fed968f91e90c58d1840c561bcd04e.pdf
d28eede4383d0dcb3e2448b0cb6df3a8
PDF Text
Text
Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Patrick Mateo
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 7/22/2012
Biography and Description
Patrick Mateo is a Young Lord who was born in the United States but lived many years in Puerto Rico.
His family is from Salinas. But he and his siblings grew up in Chicago starting at Van Buren, the old La
Madison barrio, and in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is currently living in Puerto Rico. Mr. Mateo fixes his
own cars and studied carpentry and building maintenance. He can build you a house from scratch. His
mother lived in a convent for some time and attends church regularly at St. Joseph’s in Grand Rapids.
Mr. Mateo, who also dabbles in music, has played and sung for the church choir. He is a community
organizer. Mr. Mateo has also worked on several Young Lords projects including the Latino Support
Group that became the first bilingual, bicultural support group in Grand Rapids. The Latino Support
Group was a volunteer program that received referrals from the courts and probation departments to
assist Latinos with substance abuse issues. Mr. Mateo also helped to organize the KO CLUB, an
afterschool neighborhood program to prevent youth from becoming involved with gang violence. And
he also helped to organize several Lincoln Park Camps in Michigan, to educate people about the Young
Lords and to recruit volunteers who would assist in documenting their history. Each of the camps were
self-supported by a donated fee, provided a weekend get-away, and proved positive and memorable
events. Mr. Mateo has a large family that looks to him as its leader. The Fernández side is also large and
well established in Grand Rapids. They include church pastors, school principals, and businesspersons.
�He describes rough times and perseverance. And he remains a role model and pacesetter for others in
his community.
�Transcript
JOSE JIMENEZ:
Okay, all right. Patrick, just give me your name, your date of birth,
and where you were born.
PATRICK MATEO: My name is Patrick Mateo. I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan
in 1957.
JJ:
Okay. In Grand Rapids, Michigan?
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
Okay, now, who was living here at that time with you?
PM:
Well, we didn’t live in Grand Rapids much. We moved to Chicago, so I lived
most of my life, I lived in Chicago. Until my parents got divorced, we lived in
Chicago, and from Chicago, we went to Puerto Rico.
JJ:
When you were here in Grand Rapids at that time, who was here with you? You
said “we”.
PM:
Well, we had a whole family here. I mean, it started as a small group. [00:01:00]
It was a small Puerto Rican community, and most of, a lot of the Puerto Rican
community, a lot of it was, we had a big family.
JJ:
Okay.
PM:
So, I mean --
JJ:
So, who was with you, I mean, when you were born? Who lived here?
PM:
I was living with my uncle. We lived in one of his apartments he was renting.
JJ:
What’s his name -- what’s his name?
1
�PM:
His name was Pio Fernández. Yeah, he was a very well-known person in Grand
Rapids, Pio Fernández.
JJ:
Pio Fernández?
PM:
Correct. Then later, he’d become owner of a bar. It was one of the first Puerto
Rican bar they had here in Grand Rapids, 'cause they really didn’t have that
many Latinos in that time. But I don’t remember much. All I remember, when we
moved to Chicago, we used to come back and forth, like we’d come on vacation
from school.
JJ:
Okay. Were you with your mother?
PM:
Mother, yeah, parents, brothers.
JJ:
What’s your mother’s name?
PM:
Rosa Perez.
JJ:
Rosa Perez?
PM:
[00:02:00] And I have brothers.
JJ:
Your father’s name?
PM:
Pedro Jesu Mateo.
JJ:
Okay, and your brothers?
PM:
My brothers, there was four of us, four brothers, and two girls. The two girls were
born in Chicago.
JJ:
Okay, so the four brothers were here?
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
Three brothers.
PM:
Three and I.
2
�JJ:
Okay, what are the three brothers’ names?
PM:
I had Pablo Mateo, Jesu Mateo, and Pedro Luz Mateo.
JJ:
And what about your sisters?
PM:
My sisters, Olga Mateo and [Elsa?] Mateo.
JJ:
And they were here too at that time?
PM:
No, they were born in Chicago. We were living in Chicago. When we were born,
we didn’t live here long.
JJ:
Okay, how long did you live here, about?
PM:
As far as I remember, probably we moved when -- probably six years old, I was
about six years old.
JJ:
Okay. Do you remember anything at all from six years old? You might remember
something.
PM:
Well, we were coming back and forth. I remember we went to Chicago, and I
guess in Chicago, [00:03:00] we had a struggle 'cause it was a whole different
environment than Grand Rapids. It was a big city, a lot going on. We had to
watch it all the time. When we’d get out of school, we’d get beat up by bigger
kids. They’d take our money, our lunch money. (laughs)
JJ:
What neighborhood was this?
PM:
This was Van Buren.
JJ:
You were on Van Buren?
PM:
Yeah, we were raised on Van Buren.
JJ:
Do you remember what address?
3
�PM:
No. All I remember is playgrounds we used to play. They had holes in the
grounds that we used to go, and tunnels.
JJ:
Holes in the ground, you mean like sewers?
PM:
Like sewers, we used to go play under the sewers, you know, when we were
kids.
JJ:
You mean like where they used to have like charcoal, or not charcoal, for the
heater?
PM:
Probably that’s what -- yeah, I was small, so this is as much as I remember.
JJ:
So, they had these sewers, and you would go under the ground?
PM:
We used to go underground, correct. We used to go underground and play, and
my parents’d be looking for me, screaming, “Hey, where are you?” You know,
and [00:04:00] when I went home, then (Spanish) [00:04:02]. But yeah, we used
to have fun, but it was also a big struggle.
JJ:
So, (Spanish) [00:04:09] meaning you got beat up by the old man or the mom?
PM:
We got beat up by the old man, by the kids in the neighborhoods, you know, the
prietos. They used to grab us and take -- you know.
JJ:
It was a Black and Puerto Rican neighborhood?
PM:
It was a Black and Puerto Rican neighborhood, and [they were no?] blanquitos,
but they were like kinda --
JJ:
So, (inaudible) White?
PM:
Yeah, you know, they stuck with us.
JJ:
So, the Whites and Puerto Ricans were together, and then you guys had fights
with the Blacks?
4
�PM:
Correct. Then we’d have fights.
JJ:
Was this gang or just neighborhood kids?
PM:
Well, I didn’t know. I was too young to know that there were gangs, but, you
know, they were like groups, little groups. I didn’t have the understanding of
[00:05:00] what were gangs at that time. I was probably nine years old, eight
years old, as long as I can remember.
JJ:
This is all on Van Buren?
PM:
This is all on Van Buren. I mean, I was, that year --
JJ:
Was it by Kedzie, by Halsted?
PM:
I think it was Van Buren --
JJ:
Racine or Ashland?
PM:
I think between Western and California or something.
JJ:
Something between Western or California and Van Buren Street? Do you
remember, were you going to school?
PM:
Well, yeah. We went to Catholic school, so (laughs) every time we’d get out of
Catholic school, there they were, waiting for us. We had a little radio that our
parents would buy us. You know those little radio they used to carry at that time?
We had to hide it because they would come to grab it, and then they’d beat you
up.
JJ:
They beat you, and they took the radios. They took your money.
PM:
They took our money. We couldn’t do anything. We had to keep walking. I
mean, there was all the Latinos, and they usually picked more on the [00:06:00]
5
�little kids. They were bigger kids, so, you know, they’d come, and they’d take the
stuff from us, and we couldn’t do anything else.
JJ:
Oh, was it Latinos doing it too?
PM:
No, just Blacks.
JJ:
Blacks were doing it?
PM:
Yeah, it was like the Blacks and Latinos, mixed Black and Latinos, not many
Whites. You know, that was the neighborhood that we were staying around.
JJ:
And they were older Blacks taking the --
PM:
Correct. They were like teens, and we were younger, in the nine, eight year.
JJ:
Do you remember what school you went to?
PM:
I think it was Saint Patrick’s.
JJ:
Saint Patrick’s?
PM:
Yeah, around that area. And I remember the nuns. Also, the nuns used to beat
up. If we said something wrong, they used to put soap in our mouth. I mean,
now, they didn’t do it to me, but I seen it being done at a time, because at that
time, I don't know, they did stuff like that, you know, put soap in your mouth. I
don't know. You ever went to a Catholic school?
JJ:
Yeah.
PM:
Yeah, a lot of kids. Oh, and then we used to join [00:07:00] the YMCA too, to
stay out of trouble. We didn’t want to be in the street.
JJ:
And still, you were on Van Buren?
PM:
We were still on Van Buren.
JJ:
So, where was the YMCA at?
6
�PM:
It was around that area.
JJ:
Right in around there?
PM:
Yeah. They used to come pick us up, take us, and bring us back, so that kinda
kept us outta trouble a little bit.
JJ:
You were getting into trouble?
PM:
Well, not us, the neighborhood, yeah. They had like bigger kids trying to get kids
to steal for them because, you know, younger kids don’t go to jail because their
age, so teenagers around the neighborhood, that’s what was happening at that
time.
JJ:
They wanted you to steal for them? Or what kind of stuff?
PM:
They’d take you downtown. You know, you’re a kid. You put your money in -- I
don’t know if you remember at that time, they had like you’d grab a newspaper,
and you’d put the money.
JJ:
I remember, I used to -- That was my newspaper you went to -- (laughter) They
used to have a cigar box, and then people would put the money [00:08:00] for the
paper [and things?]. Your guys would take the money?
PM:
These teenagers or older guys, they’d take you out there, “Hey, let’s go to
downtown,” a little group, and that’s what we would do. We’d go around, and
they’d go to entertain the guy that was in the stand, and then we’d go up there.
We’d put our money in there and grab a whole bunch of change, and then we
kept doing it little by little, and then we’d get a whole bunch, you know. And that’s
how most of our life went.
JJ:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
7
�PM:
Yeah, that’s the type I life we were doing in Chicago, and that’s young, you know,
started. And I guess my parents, they found out about it, my dad, and then he
sent us to Puerto Rico.
JJ:
So, you got sent to Puerto Rico at what age?
PM:
Well, I was about probably 11, 10 years old, and Puerto Rico, you think --
JJ:
So, they sent you to Puerto Rico to --
PM:
To get us out of the neighborhood in Chicago because we --
JJ:
The police ever come to the house or anything like that?
PM:
Well, yeah, they had me, and police would take me and [00:09:00] interrogated
me, you know, to tell on the guy. And I never told on him, and stuff like that, so
everything, well, the guy went back home, and they never went to jail.
JJ:
So, Van Buren was a little rowdy, a little bit.
PM:
It was a little rowdy. They were killing. I mean, they killed our neighbor. She had
like a little restaurant, and I remember when I was a kid, we all loved her in the
neighborhood. And one day, somebody came, and they --
JJ:
She was Puerto Rican?
PM:
And they robbed ‘em, and they shot ‘em. No, they were White.
JJ:
They were White?
PM:
Yeah.
JJ:
But somebody robbed ‘em and shot ‘em? They don’t know who it was?
PM:
No. I don’t think anybody -- you know, they was trying to probably figure out who
it was, but I don’t think they’d ever found out. You know, type of information like
that, when you’re kid, you don’t know any of that.
8
�JJ:
This was your neighbor (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
PM:
In the neighborhood, there was a lot of people hanging out, I remember now
clearly that I used to go by -- they’d go in the buildings in the basement and get
high. [00:10:00]
JJ:
So, this was in the ’60s, in the early, middle ’60s?
PM:
Yeah, in the ’60s. I remember they -- high, heroin. They were sniffing. I don't
know what they were -- you know, everybody was like sniffing off of like a
handkerchief.
JJ:
(inaudible) bags, the handkerchief?
PM:
Yeah, they were sniffing.
JJ:
It wasn’t like a rag?
PM:
There were some bags.
JJ:
It was handkerchief, so it was like (inaudible) or something?
PM:
Yeah, all kind of just sitting there, all high.
JJ:
So, when you say you remember guys were doing that, you weren’t doing that.
PM:
Oh, no, no, no. I was in, you know --
JJ:
You saw other people doing it.
PM:
Yeah. That’s all you see around that neighborhood. Van Buren was bad. You
know, it was bad.
JJ:
What do you mean, it was bad?
PM:
It was bad in the sense that it had a lot of robberies, a lot of killing. People used
to come from other neighborhoods, come to our neighborhood and break things,
and shootouts and all kinds of stuff like that.
9
�JJ:
Shootouts?
PM:
Yeah.
JJ:
You mean [00:11:00] other groups would come to shoot at you?
PM:
No, they’d come shoot at other like little clubs or little groups.
JJ:
What were some of the groups that were there? Do you remember?
PM:
My understanding, that’s where the Kings started.
JJ:
On Van Buren?
PM:
You know, part of the Kings, they started over at Van Buren, around that
neighborhood. You could tell the way they dressed at that time, they were
dressed with the suspenders and some pants, you know. You’d say, “Yeah,
they’re the Kings,” because they showed theirselves. They have their, como se
dice, su marca.
JJ:
So, su marca, “their mark”?
PM:
Yeah, the way they looked, and now they use the colors. At that time, I don’t
think it was more through colors. No, it was the way they dressed.
JJ:
The way they dressed, you could tell they were gangbangers?
PM:
Correct. Yeah.
JJ:
From that group? So, they would dress like with suspenders?
PM:
(Spanish) [Suspenders, los pantalones, eso ancho que tenía como --?] [00:11:53]
JJ:
Oh, Gouster? Those Gouster pants?
PM:
(Spanish) [Como, tenía como pachuco así --?] [00:11:58], yeah, similar.
[00:12:00]
JJ:
Oh, pachuco. Similar like that?
10
�PM:
So, that’s how you identify --
JJ:
Any hats? Were they were wearing hats?
PM:
(Spanish) [La gorrita, también --?] [00:12:04]. I mean, it was pretty -- and then
after that, we went to Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico was worse. Over there, you
know, you go over there --
JJ:
So, you went to Puerto Rico. Where did you go? What part of Puerto Rico?
PM:
We went to Salinas in the south of Puerto Rico, by Ponce, between Ponce and
Guayama and all that area around there.
JJ:
And so, how was that like?
PM:
That was bad because over there, there was racism también.
JJ:
What do you mean, racism?
PM:
Racism among the Puerto Rican-Puerto Rican and they call us Americanos, the
Americanos Puerto Ricans, which they didn’t like at that time.
JJ:
Oh, so the Puerto Ricans that were raised in Puerto Rico didn’t like the Puerto
Ricans from here.
PM:
Yeah, they called ‘em the Nuyoricans or Americanos.
JJ:
The Nuyoricans?
PM:
Or Americanos, they’d call ‘em.
JJ:
Or the Americans, Americano.
PM:
Americano, they still do that. Y’know, they call you, “Ah, Americano.”
JJ:
So, you felt that racism?
PM:
Oh, yeah. You know, [00:13:00] I fought in school at last three, four times a
month.
11
�JJ:
You had to fight?
PM:
I had to fight. I had to because they would force you, you know. At that time, you
would tell a teacher, but I mean, at that time, teachers didn’t really get involved in
things like that. So, we did what we had to do.
JJ:
What is it that they didn’t like?
PM:
They didn’t like you. If they don’t like you, they’ll say, “Hey, meet me at the park
at this time,” and that’s it. You know, that’s when I was growing up. There was a
couple guys, y’know, so [they wou --?]
JJ:
But was it from the Puerto Ricans that were coming from here over there or more
like from the ones that were there to the ones over here?
PM:
It was more with the ones from over here going over there. I mean, they had
problems with people that were there already, but --
JJ:
So, the ones that came from here, from the United States, and went to Puerto
Rico, they were badder than the --
PM:
I don’t -- they just didn’t like ‘em. [00:14:00]
JJ:
They didn’t like the Puerto Ricans that were there?
PM:
They didn’t like Puerto Ricans that -- no, it wasn’t the Puerto Ricans that came
from here to there. It was the Puerto Ricans with the Americanos.
JJ:
Okay, they didn’t like the Americans.
PM:
They didn’t like the Americans. At that time --
JJ:
The American Puerto Ricans.
PM:
Correct. Americans or American Puerto Ricans. (laughter)
12
�JJ:
They didn’t like Americans or Puerto Rican Americans. (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)
PM:
They didn’t care, whoever it was.
JJ:
This was in Salinas?
PM:
Oh, it wasn’t just in Salinas. It was all over. But I mean, I’m telling you about
Salinas.
JJ:
What year was that?
PM:
This was probably, wow, in early ’70s.
JJ:
Early ’70s?
PM:
Yeah. I remember, I think they were still the (Spanish) [estaba acabando la
Guerra de --?] [00:14:43] Vietnam.
JJ:
Oh, okay, so it was in the early ’70s.
PM:
So, it was in the early ’70s.
JJ:
So, that’s when --
PM:
That was right past the ’69 --
JJ:
(inaudible) ’69 and --
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
-- ’70 and stuff like that. Oh, okay, so you can feel that there was a tension there,
that there was a tension at that time.
PM:
Yes. [00:15:00] There was a tension in school. Then I had to get out of school. I
joined the Job Corps in Puerto Rico to get out of school so I could get a training
and go to work.
JJ:
Why did you want to get out of school?
13
�PM:
Because I was having problems in school, and I was fighting.
JJ:
Fighting, and the learning in school?
PM:
And not learning because --
JJ:
Was it hard?
PM:
-- I was worried. I had to go to school every day, and something new was gonna
come up. And the only people that I had was my brothers because there were
four of us, and we gotta stick together.
JJ:
So, all four of your brothers were there?
PM:
Yeah, all four, the whole family, talking about the whole family, correct.
JJ:
From Van Buren, they went to Puerto Rico?
PM:
So, it was like our brothers was the little club or the little gang that we had to help
each other.
JJ:
Okay, so you were just in the family.
PM:
In the family, because we went to the same school, most of us, because we
[00:16:00] were close to the same age, so if anything happened, then, you know,
one of the guys say, “Hey, your brother, he’s having problems,” so I run over
there, and you know, we took care of it. Or he would hear something, and he
runs over here, and we would take care of it, and that’s how it went all the time.
After we grew up, then we grew up, and everything changed. I guess people got
used to the Puerto Ricans going. You know how this works. You know, it’s a new
generation and everything.
JJ:
So, you were there for how many years?
PM:
I think we stayed -- let me see.
14
�JJ:
From ’70s to when?
PM:
Probably ten years.
JJ:
Ten more years, until the ’80s?
PM:
Until I turned old enough, and then I came to United States.
JJ:
‘til the 1980s?
PM:
No, earlier probably.
JJ:
Before the ’80s?
PM:
(inaudible) ’78, ’79.
JJ:
And so, after that, you started getting along with the Puerto Ricans there?
[00:17:00]
PM:
Well, before I left, I know I have problems. I had to come over here. That was
one of the problems.
JJ:
What was one of the problems? What do you mean?
PM:
Oh, problems with, you know, fighting, and something went outta hand, so, you
know, I came. I just wanted to come over here and cool off a little bit, and I
stayed with my parents.
JJ:
Something went on that’s serious, something serious?
PM:
Well, yeah, something serious, so then after that --
JJ:
But you can’t talk about it?
PM:
I can’t talk about it.
JJ:
So, you had to leave there.
15
�PM:
I had to leave. Then I came. Then I come and live with my dad in Chicago, and I
stayed with my dad. And then after that, I was from like Chicago, and here,
Chicago and Grand Rapids, and Chicago and Grand Rapids, back and forth.
JJ:
So, you came back to Chicago to what neighborhood?
PM:
Okay, let me see.
JJ:
Now, you only went to school there, right?
PM:
To Chicago?
JJ:
When you were in Puerto Rico, did you get to the Job Corps? [00:18:00]
PM:
Yeah, I went to the Job Corps. The Job Corps, same thing, same thing, same
thing, fighting. Oh, God, you couldn’t get outta Job Corps because there was
another racist. I mean, Puerto Rico was crazy. I mean, you got stories, like you
go to -- what they call that -- Hogar CREA? I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of
it.
JJ:
I’ve heard of it.
PM:
You know, that -- you know. They had racism about them people.
JJ:
Hogar CREA is a rehab.
PM:
Correct. They didn’t like the people from Hogar CREA. They didn’t like the
people from the Job Corps. It was chaos.
JJ:
Oh, even in an organization, they didn’t get along either.
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
So, people was real divided then.
PM:
At the time that I was growing up, yes. Now it’s more liberal.
JJ:
Relaxed.
16
�PM:
Yeah. And from then, like I said, I came over here, not here, I came to Chicago.
Chicago was pretty good. You know, I like it. We had fun.
JJ:
So, you went to Chicago to what neighborhood?
PM:
I went to the neighborhood, [00:19:00] I think it was Clark.
JJ:
Clark Street?
PM:
Yeah, it was from Clark. I can’t remember the other street, but it was close to the
park. They had railroad tracks; they used to run right over the apartment we
used to live at.
JJ:
By Clark, you mean, over by Chicago Avenue?
PM:
It was by Clark Street.
JJ:
At Clark? And they had a railroad track, I’m trying to figure out --.
PM:
Yeah, I can’t remember that. That’s years ago. I can’t remember the address.
JJ:
But was it by Chicago Avenue or Grand?
PM:
No, Grand is the other way, I think. I think it’s over way -- is that west, west
(inaudible) when you go to the lake, west of the other side.
JJ:
Oh, by the lake?
PM:
No, (Spanish) [pasando para otra para --?] [00:19:53] west, Lake and North, no?
JJ:
Oh, by Lake Street.
PM:
No, by the lake, [00:20:00] the lago, there.
JJ:
By the big main street?
PM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So, it was right around there.
PM:
Around there.
17
�JJ:
So, you had the train, but it was underneath.
PM:
No, no, no. The train go over, over there. Anyways, it was around Clark area,
the Clark area. That was where. I can’t remember, but then after that, we moved
because (Spanish) [-- también de blanquito --?] [00:20:19]. That was, it was too
expensive. We couldn’t afford it.
JJ:
Oh, that was Lincoln Park, man. You’re talking about Lincoln Park, not Clark, the
Lincoln Park neighborhood.
PM:
But it had that Clark Street around.
JJ:
Yeah, they had Clark Street, but the train wasn’t on Clark Street. It was more on
the --
PM:
No, no, it wasn’t on Clark Street, no. Clark Street, it’s a big street.
JJ:
Okay, so you lived like around Clark?
PM:
Around that area, yeah.
JJ:
Around Clark Street? But was it by Hermitage or North Avenue?
PM:
I can’t tell you. I don't know where that is.
JJ:
Okay, so you lived around Clark Street.
PM:
Yeah, I lived around Clark Street, yeah.
JJ:
Okay, and then how was that neighborhood?
PM:
The neighborhood (Spanish) [ah blanquito --?] [00:20:55], then we stayed there
for a little bit. Then, we moved. Then, we went, we lived to the north side
[00:21:00] of town, north Chicago.
JJ:
Oh, you’re talking about by Wrigley Field. Is that where you’re talking about, by
Clark, by Wrigley Field?
18
�PM:
El parque.
JJ:
Yeah, by Addison and Clark and that area by Wrigley Field.
PM:
(Spanish) [Aha, por allí. Por allí, sí, sí --?] [00:21:14]
JJ:
So, you went to that neighborhood by Wrigley Field.
PM:
No, we didn’t live there long. We moved. Then I think dad had a girlfriend, so
they kinda break out, so we moved. And then from there --
JJ:
The whole family lived up there?
PM:
No, no, no. It was just my dad and I. Then I think my brother went with us, but
he didn’t like it, so he went back.
JJ:
Your mom stayed where?
PM:
She stayed in Puerto Rico. There were other family. They got divorced and
everything. There were other family.
JJ:
Okay, so they split up at that time?
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
So, did you work at that time? Were you working?
PM:
I wasn’t working. I think I was too young to work. I’m pretty sure I probably
[00:22:00] was too young. I needed like paperwork and stuff like that. But once
we moved out of there, I think then we moved to the north side, around Chicago,
Damen, that area, or through Wood, all that area through there, and Augusta and
all that. Then we moved on there.
JJ:
So, how long did you live there?
19
�PM:
Oh, we lived there for years. We moved just a couple buildings [down?], stuff like
that, but we stayed around that area. I’m pretty sure I was probably there about
ten years.
JJ:
About ten years?
PM:
Yeah.
JJ:
So, this is like late ’70s, like ’78?
PM:
It’s like ’70s.
JJ:
The ’70s and ’80s?
PM:
And the ’80s.
JJ:
Okay, so ’70s and ’80s, you were around Chicago Avenue, Wood Street, Damen.
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
That area. What was that neighborhood like?
PM:
That was a good neighborhood. I mean, we used to party. That was the times
when we played congas in the street and sing. [00:23:00]
JJ:
In the street or in the park?
PM:
In the streets, in the park, you know, all over.
JJ:
And you got into conga?
PM:
Yeah, I started playing some conga.
JJ:
Were you always into music or no?
PM:
No, I learned in Chicago. I started playing.
JJ:
Who were you hanging out with?
PM:
We used to hang around the -- around the [water?] area with the Mighty Grands.
My cousin was part of the Mighty Grands. I mean, we were in that.
20
�JJ:
I thought the Mighty Grands were like Italians, or were they mixed?
PM:
No, all the ones I knew were Puerto Ricans.
JJ:
All the ones you knew, the Mighty Grands, Puerto Ricans at that time?
PM:
That was around the Wood area.
JJ:
Okay, but it was mixed too, or wasn’t it?
PM:
The ones I knew, they were all Puerto Rican. They had the Playboys next to the
Mighty Grands.
JJ:
Oh, okay, maybe that’s who.
PM:
I think they were Italians. They had a bar that was called the Playboy, and then
they had [00:24:00] a little Playboy bar, and they were called all the Playboys. I
mean, we used to go by that neighborhood, and then you’d hear shootings.
JJ:
Okay, so you guys fought with the Playboys at that time.
PM:
Well, I didn’t fight. I was not (Spanish) [-- natural --?] [00:24:13]. I was never in
gangs. You know, I used to be around ‘em. I used to hang around by the
Unknowns, the Kings, all these gangs, ‘cause at that time, when I was growing
up, they had gangs in every corner.
JJ:
So, they had the Unknowns, the Kings. What other groups?
PM:
They had the Mighty Grands. They had the Superior Gangsters, and (Spanish)
[00:24:44]. It’s been years.
JJ:
But you were neutral.
PM:
I was neutral. I was never interested in gangs. You know, yes, I would hang
around with them. We’d drink, get high, stuff like that.
JJ:
Get high on what? What’d you get high on?
21
�PM:
What was that?
JJ:
What [00:25:00] did you get high on at that time?
PM:
We used to -- just weed.
JJ:
Weed and stuff like that. Did you drink beer, wine?
PM:
Wine, yeah, wine was a big thing in those times.
JJ:
Richard’s?
PM:
Yeah, Richard, MD 20/20 in there. (laughs) Yeah, I mean, we used to run
around. Oh, no, wait a minute. I remember those times too, they had the acid. I
don't know if you ever, you know. You’d be tripping on that acid. They had that
angel dust, you know. They had a whole bunch of the stuff, you know, those
things.
JJ:
Did you try all that stuff?
PM:
Oh, I tried a lot of that stuff, you know, yeah, when growing up. I mean, it was
crazy because it was all over. That was that era where everybody was getting
high. I mean, there was also --
JJ:
This was the early ’70s and late ’80s?
PM:
Yeah, like in ’76, ’78, around there.
JJ:
You’d still get high on (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
PM:
(Spanish) [Yeah, eso también […] --?] [00:25:55] hippies (Spanish) [00:26:00]
JJ:
But that was not a hippie neighborhood.
PM:
No, no, no, this was a Latino neighborhood. I think it was Latinos and White.
JJ:
Latino meaning Mexican and Puerto Rican?
22
�PM:
They had some Mexicans, well, not as much, but they had ‘em, and a couple
Blacks. They didn’t have many Blacks.
JJ:
This is Chicago, Damen, that area, the Wood Street?
PM:
(inaudible) from downtown, coming all the way to Chicago Avenue, all the way
down to Lowell, passing Kedzie and probably around there.
JJ:
So, Chicago Avenue was the street --
PM:
Yeah, that was the main street.
JJ:
-- that you followed, the Mighty Grand thing.
PM:
Well, they didn’t run all that area because they had other gangs on the other
side, you know, like the Unknowns that were over to the -- by Humboldt Park and
that, and the Kings, and then the Kings, the Cobras later and stuff like that,
y’know, that came out. Other gangs started coming out.
JJ:
So, you just hung out on what street? What street are you [00:27:00] hanging
out on?
PM:
I hang out on Wood, right there. They had a little park there.
JJ:
Wood and Chicago, right there?
PM:
Yeah, al lado de -- they had a police station, so we’d hang right across the street.
They had a little (Spanish) [-- nombre parque de -- que Valle a --?] [00:27:15].
Geez, I forgot, I don’t think it’s Wood Park, right? They don’t have a --?
JJ:
There’s no Eckhart Park. That’s the other.
PM:
No. They had a little park there. That’s where we’d hang all night. We’d listen to
music, and we’d hang out with our girls, you know, with our oldies on. The
oldies, yeah, they had that oldies station. You’d put it on late at night.
23
�JJ:
Like WVON, the oldies, the Black station?
PM:
Yeah, they used to play all those like lowrider music and stuff like that, so we’d
hang out with our girls, drink some wine and stuff.
JJ:
And just kinda party with girls and stuff like that?
PM:
Yeah, just hang out. And we never --
JJ:
Not really into gangs.
PM:
No, it was like [00:28:00] a neighborhood club, you know. That’s all it was. We
weren’t out shooting people or nothing like that. It was just protection for us, and
that’s all we did.
JJ:
And once in a while, you had somebody come from somewhere else.
PM:
Yeah, but that was rarely. It was very rare. I’d see more action at Humboldt Park
when I used to go to Humboldt Park. In those years, at Humboldt Park, I mean,
that was chaos.
JJ:
What was Humboldt Park like?
PM:
Well, Humboldt Park, well, you know. You was around there, everybody playing
the congas, (Spanish) [-- tabaco, “Hey, tabaco!” Tengo -- cómo --?] [00:28:29] -- I
don't know how they call it -- they had heroin, everything, anything you wanted,
even a woman if you wanted a woman. I was young then, and I was wild. This is
like --
JJ:
Free open market.
PM:
Yeah, open market for everything, right at Humboldt Park. I mean, it was good
times ‘cause, you know, we were al -- (Spanish)[-- Boricua. No sabe ya --?]
[00:28:53]. You didn’t see blancos. You didn’t [00:29:00] see no other (Spanish)
24
�[-- que Boricua.] [00:29:01], and we all hang at Humboldt Park, and we all
protected each other. You know, if somebody come messing with you, they come
and they protect you. That’s all it was at that time.
JJ:
So, you liked it because it was more Boricua, more Puerto Rican.
PM:
Correct, yeah. And it was, everybody was --
JJ:
Is that why you went there, just to hang out with --
PM:
Well, we’d go there and listen to music, get into the music, sing, you know, play
congas and stuff like that.
JJ:
What did you mean, sing?
PM:
Well, sing, they make coro. Everybody makes a coro. (Spanish) [poner un
cantar y --?] [00:29:31]
JJ:
And you were more into music?
PM:
(Spanish) [-- y’know, la canción --?] [00:29:33]
JJ:
Okay, improvising?
PM:
Improvise, yeah. (Spanish) [Todo eso. Como tirando y […], tú sabes. (laughs) -y ventando --?] [00:29:38] So, that was great.
JJ:
So, you did that on the weekends?
PM:
Yeah, the weekends, that was the paydays. By then, I had a job then. When I
moved to that area, I had a job.
JJ:
Where were you working?
PM:
Geez, I had a (Spanish) [-- un trabajo aquí --?] [00:29:58], and I’d grab another
one next door. [00:30:00] I’d walk from here, and I was working like in (Spanish)
[00:30:03], like (inaudible) and stuff like that and making boxes. (inaudible)
25
�(Spanish) [00:30:07], pictures. Then I went to other places. Then I went next
door. It was like a little rubber thing, making plastic spoons and bottles and stuff
like that. They had a lot of jobs at that time. You couldn’t get a job here, you’d
get another job next door. You know, it says, “Help wanted.” It was good. At that
time, it was good, so every time payday, we would run. Either we’d go to
Fullerton Beach, y’know -JJ:
Fullerton?
PM: Fullerton Beach, yeah.
JJ: What was that like, Fullerton Beach?
PM:
Well, it’s the same thing. And the rocks, you know, and the rocks in that area?
JJ:
That’s by Lincoln Park by the rocks. Yeah. That became like a Puerto Rican
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
PM:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, at that time.
JJ:
That was the Puerto Rican beach, Fullerton Beach.
PM:
That was también, the same as Humboldt Park. I mean, they didn’t have all that
selling and stuff they’re doing in that park. It was all music. You know, [00:31:00]
they’re playing over here. Everybody’d come, and they’d join. They’d bring their
own instrument and just enjoyed the music.
JJ:
What year was that?
PM:
That was in the late ’70s.
JJ:
In the late ’70s? So, Fullerton Beach was the Puerto Rican beach in the mid’70s.
PM:
Yes.
26
�JJ:
Is that what you’re saying? I’m not putting words in your mouth.
PM:
No, that was our hangout for the beach. That was when we would go to the
beach.
JJ:
From all over the city?
PM:
Yes.
JJ:
From Humboldt Park and --
PM:
From Humboldt Park to there.
JJ:
And everybody went to that beach?
PM:
And to the neighborhood.
JJ:
Now, did the gangs fight each other at the beach, or was that neutral?
PM:
Then that was neutral.
JJ:
Then that’s kind of a neutral place? Nobody fought?
PM:
Yeah. The fighting was mainly like in the club at that time. I remember, as long
as I can remember, you go to clubs, they have the Martini, we used to call. It
used to be, [00:32:00] I don’t remember (inaudible).
JJ:
The Martini House?
PM:
Martini was one of them. You go, there was disco at that time. I don't know if
you remember, Diana Ross and all that, those canciones de disco.
JJ:
So, you had a lot of disco clubs.
PM:
They had a lot of disco clubs. That’s where the gangs used to come in and do
the shooting. That’s where the problem was. I mean, that’s where I saw it. I
never saw the outside. Yeah, there was shooting, but not around my
neighborhood.
27
�JJ:
Were there a lot of disco clubs?
PM:
Oh, yeah, at that time, yeah, they had a lot of disco clubs. They have one at
North Avenue, right on North Avenue and I think it was California, and a club, like
a little hall upstairs, and they used to throw disco there too, but that was more
relaxed because that was from around the neighborhood, (Spanish) [00:32:44],
so it wasn’t as bad, and they couldn’t sneak in. Like in the clubs, they used to
sneak in and shoot right in the club. And I went to a couple clubs, and they
would shoot out right inside a club, so I mean, we had to get outta there,
[00:33:00] y’know, collect all our buddies, say, “Hey, let’s get outta here.”
(inaudible) Yeah, that wasn’t that bad. Mostly, when I was growing up in Chicago
at that time, all the gangs were mainly like at Humboldt Park, the fighting. I’m
talking about this was after the Humboldt Park went down. They closed the
Humboldt Park.
JJ:
What do you mean?
PM:
They closed it. Remember, they closed Humboldt Park so the people don’t go in
there, play congas? I don't know if you remember that time. You were probably
in Chicago when that --
JJ:
I’m not sure.
PM:
They closed it. They put like a barrier or something so the cars wouldn’t go in,
nobody go in.
JJ:
You mean by the boat house?
PM:
By the boat house.
JJ:
So, they closed the boat house?
28
�PM:
They sealed it down, and they didn’t want nobody going there. And then that’s
when they stopped, and then that’s when they started all the gangbanging.
JJ:
So, there wasn’t gangbanging before that?
PM:
When that was happening, yeah. Before that, I didn’t know nothing about it.
[00:34:00] We would hear one or two things, but that was if somebody came into
the park, and then for protection, then they would have --
JJ:
So, why did they close it down?
PM:
Well, probably because the selling of the drugs, prostitution, heroin.
JJ:
There was no gangs?
PM:
I mean, there were gangs, but they weren’t --
JJ:
I mean the gang fighting came later, you said.
PM:
Yeah, more. It escalated.
JJ:
It escalated maybe because they closed it down?
PM:
I mean, I don't know if it was because they closed it down.
JJ:
Was that when they made the beach? Were you there when they made the
beach or no?
PM:
No, I was in Grand Rapids after that.
JJ:
So, the beach was already there.
PM:
The beach was there, but they used to call it Mojóne Beach.
JJ:
Mojóne?
PM:
(laughs) Yeah.
JJ:
Mojóne means?
PM:
Mojóne, you know, the poop, the turd, yeah.
29
�JJ:
Like a turd beach?
PM:
Yeah, the Turd Beach.
JJ:
As in feces, turd as in feces?
PM:
Correct, because it was never clean. And then they’d keep it clean, or it looked
dirty. You know how the Latinos are. [00:35:00] They put names on everything.
JJ:
So, that was when the city was doing that, trying to fix an area like for a beach for
the Puerto Ricans, but the Puerto Ricans didn’t take care of it, or --?
PM:
Well, as long as I remember, they still take -- a lot of people go in there. That
beach was never fixed. It was just, maybe it was too small for too many people.
That’s what I saw. I never went in there.
JJ:
You went where? Where did you go?
PM:
I went to the Fullerton Beach.
JJ:
How come you didn’t go to North Avenue?
PM:
Well, we walked. Yeah, we’d walk all the way from Fullerton. You can walk all
the way to North Avenue because that was the thing. Everybody walks back and
forth.
JJ:
Did you go to Oak Street Beach too?
PM:
No. I never went there.
JJ:
Nobody went to the Oak Street?
PM:
No, at that time, that wasn’t the hangout. You know, we’d follow the rules.
Where the people was, y’know, [00:36:00] that’s where we follow.
JJ:
Okay. I know Montrose was also one of the beaches.
30
�PM:
Montrose, correct. I think we went there a couple times, but the one on Fullerton,
there were all the Latinos.
JJ:
What did they do?
PM:
The Latinos, I guess you’d feel more comfortable. You’d feel like you’re on your
own island. You feel more comfortable with the Latinos, at that time. You can go
to Chicago right now, and I don’t think you’d see that many Puerto Ricans over
there. I went one time, and it’s mainly all Whites.
JJ:
Fullerton?
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
So, there’s no more Latinos?
PM:
There’s some but not like it used to be, and then there’s cops all over.
JJ:
At that time, they didn’t have cops?
PM:
At that time, no, they didn’t have that many cops. There were cops, but, you
know, they’d just look and see if everything was cool and kept walking.
JJ:
And usually, there was no problems?
PM:
And there was no problems. [00:37:00]
JJ:
Okay, but now they have a lot of cops and no Latinos?
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
So, how do you feel about that, that your beach is not there?
PM:
Well, I think it’s a big change. In Chicago, everything changes. They move
people out and bring others in, and Chicago has always been like that.
JJ:
Okay. What do you mean? What do you mean, they move people out?
31
�PM:
They raise the taxes so the poor leave, and then the rich people move in, and so
they’re forced to leave and find another spot. They take your neighborhood from
you, and then they force you out.
JJ:
What do you mean, they take your neighborhood?
PM:
Well, they’re taking it. I mean, they’re taking it legally. I’m not saying they’re just
taking it. Legally, they take it. But [00:38:00] I think Chicago’s always been like
that. I mean, that happens here in Grand Rapids too. It’s happening right now.
JJ:
What’s happening?
PM:
In Chicago, they’re moving. They’re fixing. They’re growing downtown. It’s
coming to the ghetto, so they’re kinda, I mean, in a good way, yeah, they’re
fixing, but that’s for now. You don’t see it as bad in Chicago. Chicago, you see it,
everything. I mean, I remember I used to hang around Division. Now on
Division, you don’t see people playing dominoes in the streets like they used to
and hear the music. Now it’s different.
JJ:
(inaudible) did it improve, or it got worse or better, or what do you mean?
PM:
In a way, it’s improved, but then they make things, things are expensive, so the
people don’t have the money to hang around there. And so, I [00:39:00] mean,
it’s good in a way and bad in another way.
JJ:
Tell me why it’s good, and tell me why it’s bad.
PM:
It’s bad because la gente can’t afford to be around there, they can’t be around
there. It’s not like it used to be. It was more liberal. People sit down, talk to
others and stuff like that, and you can’t do that anymore. You can’t just sit there.
They’re gonna tell you you have to move. You have to buy something, which,
32
�you know, that’s how restaurants are anyways, but that’s what it is. I don't know
much.
JJ:
That’s the bad part. What’s the good part?
PM:
The good part? It looks good. The neighborhood looks good, but it looks good
but not with our people.
JJ:
What do you mean?
PM:
(laughs)
JJ:
I asked you to tell me what’s good. I didn’t tell you to say [what’s bad?] --
PM:
It looks good. The neighborhood looks good, but not with our people.
JJ: What do you mean, [00:40:00] not with our people? We’re not there?
PM:
Boricuas, it’s a Boricua neighborhood, y’know.
JJ:
But the Boricuas, the Puerto Ricans that moved to -- they’re living in the suburbs.
PM:
They’re somewhere in the suburbs.
JJ:
They’re better.
PM:
You think?
JJ:
I don't know. I’m asking you.
PM:
(laughs) You tell me.
JJ:
We live in the suburbs, right? So, we moved up.
PM: Ah -JJ: What do you think?
PM:
Not everybody wants to live in the suburbs, don’t you think? That’s like moving
them out, getting them out of town, you know. I wouldn’t want to live in the
suburbs.
33
�JJ:
Do they live in better houses in the suburbs or what?
PM:
I have no idea, they probably do. I love the ghetto, man. I’m a ghetto man, you
know, (laughs) 100 percent.
JJ:
You love the ghetto?
PM:
Ghetto, you know the ghetto.
JJ:
You love to be by your people.
PM:
I like to be by my people. Yeah, that’s what I like. I don’t care. I know for some
people, it’s bad. You have to think big and positive, but it’s, [00:41:00] I guess, I
just like to be by my people. I don't know. It’s a good thing for me.
JJ:
So, when did you leave Chicago then?
PM:
Oh, I left Chicago -- wow, let me see.
JJ:
I mean, it looks like you didn’t like the job market. Otherwise, you would’ve
stayed there.
PM:
No, well, you know, it’s those things.
JJ:
Why did you decide to come back here to Grand Rapids?
PM:
Well, you get older, and you get to that time that you gotta change. You know
what I mean? So, I came here. This was a nice -- Grand Rapids is a good place
to raise a kid, have a good job. They had jobs here like crazy when I came here.
JJ:
But I thought you said you liked it, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) around your
people.
PM:
Yeah, well, they have Puerto Ricans in Grand Rapids too.
JJ:
So, you figured, come over here?
34
�PM:
And I have more family here. I’m very close to my family, [00:42:00] so, I mean, I
had all my family here.
JJ:
When you say all your family, who of your family?
PM:
Well, family, I have a bunch. I got the Fernández. I got the Hernandez. I got the
Perez, the Mateos.
JJ:
They were all here?
PM:
And then they’re all mixed with all other Latinos. If I mention ‘em, man, I’ll be
here all day.
JJ:
So, you have a very big family in Grand Rapids.
PM:
Yes, bigger than Chicago.
JJ:
Who are some of your uncles and aunts that are here, or cousins?
PM:
Wow, there’s too many. I can’t even go through all that deatil. There’s so many.
I really don’t like mentioning their names. Let’s skip that.
JJ:
But are they involved in the community or no, some of them?
PM:
Yeah. There were some. I mean, we had Yolanda.
JJ:
Yolanda Wilson?
PM:
Yes.
JJ:
She was the director of the ex-offender [00:43:00] program?
PM:
Yes. She went through a couple programs, helping the Latino and the
immigrants. And then we have her daughter that she’s following her steps.
JJ:
Who’s her daughter?
PM:
Man, you just put me under the --
JJ:
Yolanda Wilson’s daughter is working also in the community?
35
�PM:
Yes.
JJ:
Now, don’t you have some cousins or somebody that are teachers or something?
PM:
Yeah, I got a couple. I got a cousin that’s a teacher also.
JJ:
But I mean like principal, right, or something like that, a principal?
PM:
Yeah, she’s a principal over here on Franklin.
JJ:
Okay, so they’re kind of active. You had the Fernández Bar.
PM:
They had the Fernández Bar, which that bar ran for years over in Grand Rapids.
So, I mean, I came here, I liked it here, I got a job.
JJ:
So, your family is very much in the community.
PM:
Yeah. I came here. [00:44:00] I settled down. I got here. What I never did in
Chicago, I did it here, and I made a bad decision. I got into heroin, and then that
was something, to be hooked on heroin for close to 10 years.
JJ:
Here in Grand Rapids?
PM:
Here in Grand Rapids.
JJ:
So, you didn’t do that in Chicago, but you started --
PM:
I never did that in Chicago.
JJ: But you saw it.
PM: I saw it, and I lived around it, and they would do it in front of me and everything,
but it never went through my mind. Just, I would get high on weed and stuff like
that and once in a while drop a pill, but when I came here, then my life went
downhill.
JJ:
So, what happened then? Were you just curious, or were you depressed, or
were you going through problems?
36
�PM:
Probably, yeah, going through problems with my ex and stuff like that, so going
through that stage kinda brought me into that, you know. And I tried it, and I tried
[00:45:00] stopping.
JJ:
You found you liked it?
PM:
Well, you know, (laughs) that’s the bad part, when you try and you like it. So,
going through all that, I mean, yeah, I liked it, and it was a great high (inaudible).
Plus, it was a cheap high too.
JJ:
It was a cheap high at that time?
PM:
But I’ll tell you what, really, I didn’t just try it and go and buy it. I got into selling,
y’know. I was selling. I would sell weed. I would make my business like, make
some money like that. I would work and sell some weed, and I would sell some
heroin.
JJ:
So, not only did you like it, but you were also making money, so you’re making
money too.
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
It was giving you a positive -- like a positive reinforcer, would you say?
PM:
Kinda. To me, it wasn’t costing me anything, and I liked it, so, you know, I kept
doing it.
JJ:
Did you get any problems later or no?
PM:
Well, you know, yeah, I got addicted to it. [00:46:00]
JJ:
And then what happened there?
PM:
So, that’s an addiction and that.
JJ:
Did that affect your family at all?
37
�PM:
Oh, yeah, it affected my family. I got divorced, and then one day, I said, “Hey,
you know, I gotta stop.” I decided I have to leave this alone.
JJ:
Did you ever go to jail for it or no?
PM:
Not for it. Well, I got caught with, not with any dope on me, you know, marijuana
[is still?] dope, [I would cap it?], that was like 75-dollars, 50-dollars fine for a little
bag or whatever. I’d go pay it and get out.
JJ:
So, your problem wasn’t the jail. It was more the family issues, like you got
divorced?
PM:
Kinda, yeah, then. So, that brought me into the drug, and then after that, one
day they were looking for me. I don't know. I think I owed some money. They
put me in jail. I mean, I had the money in my pocket, and I said, “This is the time
for me to quit.” They just said, “Well, [00:47:00] I got you here. You got three
months, or you pay 300 dollars.” And then in my mind, I said, “You know what?
This is my time to quit.” Boom, I said, “Gimme the three months.” And I had the
money, and I went in there, and once they put me in jail, I started doing my three
months, and that’s where I started kicking. Lucky I had one of my cousin’s
cousins. They were working in a jail as a guard, and he was helping me with
aspirins here and there to kinda calm down the chilling and stuff like that, but I
went through hell in there. And I went through it and got over it, and I came out.
Then, I came out; I started going to church. I did a cursillo, matter of fact.
JJ:
You went to what church?
PM:
I went to St. Joseph’s.
JJ:
St. Joseph’s, a Catholic church?
38
�PM:
Catholic church.
JJ:
You did a cursillo?
PM:
I did a cursillo, [00:48:00] and after the cursillo, I was in church for a while, for
years, for maybe 15 years.
JJ:
What is a cursillo? What is that?
PM:
Cursillo is a Christian organization. I think it’s through every church. It’s a
spiritual… (Spanish) [¿Cómo la dirías eso --?] [00:48:19].
JJ:
Like a retreat?
PM:
A spiritual retreat, yeah.
JJ:
So, you went like for a week or a weekend?
PM:
It’s a weekend.
JJ:
Okay. And what do you do there?
PM:
Well, that’s something you can’t talk about it because that’s --
JJ:
Just prayers and stuff?
PM:
There’s prayers, a lot of prayers. You study a lot. It’s a bunch of things that they
teach you, go through, and at the end, you come out clean.
JJ:
Now, did you ever relapse again on the heroin?
PM:
After that-- not on heroin, no. After that, I never relapsed, but I did turn alcoholic.
[00:49:00]
JJ:
After that?
PM:
Yeah. I started drinking a lot.
JJ:
'Cause sometimes people, they stop the heroin and go to the alcohol.
PM:
I changed the heroin to alcohol, and I didn’t think it was a problem.
39
�JJ:
But you improved, so that was good.
PM:
You call that improvement? (laughs)
JJ:
Well, yeah, I mean, it’s better than -- alcohol, you know, I don't know which is
worse, but still, it wasn’t heroin.
PM:
Well, there was times where I would wake up in my car all drunk and stuff like
that.
JJ:
So, you went pretty bad into the alcohol.
PM:
Yeah, I didn’t think I had a problem, but I did. And then I realized that, and then
that’s when I joined Project Rehab. That’s where I met you. I met Jose, Jose
“Cha Cha” Jimenez.
JJ:
I had a bottle too?
PM:
You had a bottle to hit people in the head with. (laughter)
JJ:
What was I doing there then? [00:50:00]
PM:
You was a counselor. You was my counselor. Yeah, then you would help us out.
I went in there and did what I had to do. I mean, I wasn’t happy, you know.
(laughs)
JJ:
You didn’t like your counselor?
PM:
No, it wasn’t the counselor. The thing is, you know, I mean, you go over there
voluntary, they say, “Well, you got 30 days,” and then you say, “Wow, I got three
more days.” You go, “Three more.” (laughs)
JJ:
You’re doing time.
PM:
Yeah, like doing time, “You got three more days to go --”
40
�JJ:
[I gotta tell you?] “You can’t go because you’re doing time… You’re not getting
into the program.”
PM:
Yeah. (laughter)
JJ:
“This guy’s just doing time.”
PM:
No, but I was getting into it. You know, I mean, I was feeling good. At first, it was
kinda hard.
JJ:
What did you learn in there? Because, you know, it’s not really the concept of
change, as you change yourself.
PM:
Yes. You have to want to. I mean, if you don’t want to, it’s not gonna happen.
And I mean, [00:51:00] everybody, you just could see people, just looking at the
people and see the behavior already changing, what’s going on and all this, I
mean, that made you want to think you don’t want to go back to this. I don’t want
to be there again. And that’s every time something like that, I think about it. I
said, “No, this ain’t for me,” and thank God, I’ve been doing pretty good. But it
was hell in there. (laughs)
JJ:
What do you mean?
PM:
Well, it’s got the rules, you know. Especially when you’re an alcoholic, you don’t
like nobody telling you what to do and the meetings, and everything is a meeting.
You gotta listen. You have to listen to these people, and the same thing over
and over and over. In a way, it sticks to you, you know? (laughs) You come
outta there, and you’re having like nightmares.
JJ:
“Oh, not again.”
41
�PM:
“Not again. (laughter) This guy, the same thing.” There you go. But yeah, it was
pretty good. [00:52:00] But some of the counselors, I mean, I think it’s just me. I
just couldn’t deal with a lot of ‘em.
JJ:
What year was that?
PM:
In the ’80s.
JJ:
The ’80s?
PM:
Yeah.
JJ:
Okay, so this is (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
PM:
What, ’89, wasn’t it? You was there.
JJ:
Yeah, ’89, ’90.
PM:
Or ’98?
JJ:
No, I think I left there around ’95 or something like that, ’96.
PM:
You left, so it was before that.
JJ:
Yeah, it was before then.
PM:
So, yeah, then I came out of there. Then I changed my life.
JJ:
So, today, you only chipped a few things?
PM:
I chip what?
JJ:
You chipped a few things?
PM:
No, no. (laughter)
JJ:
Just a couple.
PM:
Just a few. (laughter)
JJ:
Oh, just a few. (laughter) But so far, I mean, you’re --
42
�PM:
No, I’m doing good. I’m doing good. I mean, I bought some houses. Once I
[00:53:00] got outta there, I got me a job.
JJ:
You bought some houses?
PM:
I bought houses.
JJ:
Where did you learn? You did some (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
PM:
I did it on my own. I did some research. Well, thanks to you, you helped me out.
We worked together on the support group. We worked together.
JJ:
After you came out, you were helping me with the Latino Support Group?
PM:
Latino Support Group.
JJ:
And what was that? What was the Latino Support Group?
PM:
That was combined with alcohol. It was more with everything, you know.
JJ:
Drugs?
PM:
Emotion and everything, a group combined with drugs.
JJ:
(inaudible) your culture and all that?
PM:
Yeah.
JJ:
It was like a twelve-step program?
PM:
Yes.
JJ:
It was for the people when they came out, we’d set that set that up for the
graduates, but they didn’t have any support [on the --?]
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
So, we set that up. You helped me with it.
PM:
Yeah, it was you, me. We had a couple people.
JJ:
Carlos.
43
�PM:
You, Carlos, and I were the first ones that started it, [00:54:00] and then we
started bringing people in. And it went pretty good. It was a big group. We had
a big group.
JJ:
Actually, it split up into other group. It’s still going.
PM:
It’s still going, but it split it up. They changed the name, but it’s still there.
JJ:
Because before, they didn’t have anything in Spanish.
PM:
Correct. So, we did that, and then we did the Lincoln Park Camp.
JJ:
Yeah, the Lincoln Park Camp was to talk about the history of the Young Lords
and all that and to get people from here to go to a camp.
PM:
Correct. And then we were working at the Lincoln Park. It was part of the group
we had with the church.
JJ:
The KO Club.
PM:
The KO Club.
JJ:
What was the KO Club for?
PM:
That was to keep kids out of street.
JJ:
Out of the gangs?
PM:
Out of the gangs.
JJ:
So, you helped with that also?
PM:
We helped with that. I worked a lot of years with that, and then we looked for
funds to make funds for the club. So, that went on for a while also, until the
funds ran out, I guess.
JJ:
Yeah, they ran out [00:55:00] in three years.
PM:
Correct.
44
�JJ:
But it’s still going. That’s still going but with a different name.
PM:
Yeah, that’s still going with a different name, correct. But we got that started too,
and the Lincoln Park Camp. It’s still going.
JJ:
And the Lincoln Park Camp is still going because we’re documenting the history
right now.
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
I mean, they were trying to document the history right now, so that’s what it was
for, right?
PM:
Yeah. Oh, and then we had the little Young Lord group that we started here.
That was a five-person group that we have.
JJ:
And that group is the one that started that --
PM:
That started all the other programs. I was involved, you, Carlos, and some other,
two more guys.
JJ:
Those were the main people, but there were other people involved?
PM:
They were the main people, correct.
JJ:
Because the people in the KO Club and all that were involved in all that different.
PM:
No, they weren’t. They were just with the KO Club. So, [00:56:00] that’s how I
met you, and that’s my life.
JJ:
So, you became like a businessperson.
PM:
With the houses.
JJ:
With the houses.
PM:
Correct.
JJ:
And so, what did you do with the houses?
45
�PM:
I rent ‘em. I rent. I live in one.
JJ:
You rent ‘em out to people?
PM:
I rent out to people. I’ve been successful because at that time, I could’ve had
more than two houses. And like this house here, I bought for 4,000 dollars, and
between Carlos and I, we got in here, and we fixed it. We tore the whole thing.
We put new patterning, new floor, new everything. Then once I got fixing, then I
borrowed money out. Then I borrowed money on this, fixed some more, and
then I bought another house. And then the other house, that’s the [00:57:00]
moneymaking house. I got a duplex, so that brings a lot of money, and I’m
almost done paying that. I wish I could do more, but that’s good enough for me.
JJ:
So, you’re not just fixing them to sell ‘em. You’re fixing them to rent them.
PM:
I fix to rent, yeah, so I can have some retire money when I -- that’s my main goal,
the retire money. I wanna see some money when I get old, you know.
JJ:
And so, that’s one of your business.
PM:
So I can go to China, you know, Japan. (laughs) I wish I could.
JJ:
Okay, well, that’s good.
PM:
Everybody has dreams. You know how that is.
JJ:
That’s a good inspiration (inaudible) [businesspeople?], but you still are involved
with the community and stuff like that too?
PM:
Sure, I still get involved with the community. I’m more watching on the
neighborhood, you know, and stuff like that, around the neighborhood, keep it
[00:58:00] clean. And pretty far, it’s been successful around this neighborhood. I
mean, still it’s gotten worse, and we have a lot of gangs here now, this area here.
46
�But this area here, since I was a little kid, 'cause I was born in this area, and it’s
always been bad. But there’s still shooting. There’s gangs that come out.
JJ:
And when you say, “this area,” this is the --
PM:
This is the Grandville area, Grandville Avenue area in Grand Rapids.
JJ:
Is that where the Puerto Ricans live?
PM:
This is where the Hispanic people live. You can’t say Puerto Rican here 'cause
it’s Hispanic because it’s not all Puerto Rican.
JJ: Who lives here, then?
PM: This is mixed. This is Puerto Ricans, Black, White, Mexican, Tejanos, all kind.
JJ:
But I mean, it’s big? You said it’s all kind, but it’s also the center where the
Latinos were, the Hispanics. [00:59:00]
PM:
Well, now it’s changed. This is more mixed now. The center of the Latinos is on
Burton, the Burton area. That’s where all --
JJ:
Burton and where?
PM:
Burton from -- let me see. I will say like from Hall School to 28th Street, on
Division all through there. All those houses are all mostly Latinos and Blacks.
They’re also mixed because Grand Rapids is all mixed. The system, you know,
this is not like Chicago. They got one neighborhood that’s all Puerto Rican, one
that’s --
JJ:
It’s how it’s been.
PM:
It’s never been like that, yeah. And then like gangs here, gangs are mixed too.
It’s not all Puerto Rican gangs. This is all people that know --
JJ:
Is there a gang problem?
47
�PM:
There used to be. [01:00:00] I mean, they’re shooting people, but I don't know.
You don’t get a lot of information on what’s going on. You know, you hear it, but
the cops won’t say much on the paper. But I think, to me, it’s more like drug
related or maybe some gang too 'cause most of the gangs are doing the drugs.
They’re the ones that’s selling the drugs, so… but I don’t wanna get into that
'cause, you know.
JJ:
Well, is the neighborhood calm, or is it changing?
PM:
The neighborhood’s changing. The people, it’s changing. It’s better than Burton.
I mean, Burton, they do a lot of shooting. There’s gangs all over. Most of the
gangs are on Burton.
JJ:
So, this is more stable?
PM:
This is more stable here on this side of town.
JJ:
But it’s also changing though. Isn’t downtown --
PM:
Yeah, downtown kinda moving in.
JJ:
So, the urban renewal is coming in. But you say that’s good for the money.
PM:
Well, it’s good in a way, you know, I mean, if [01:01:00] you wanna sell out.
(laughs)
JJ:
Is that what you say (inaudible)?
PM:
(laughs) No, I [didn’t?] say that.
JJ:
I’m just joking with you. (laughs)
PM:
Nope, I say, “You know what? Gimme the house, and we’ll pay for it, and just get
out. You know, here’s a couple whatever just to get out.”
48
�JJ:
But it’s pretty stable because the people that are living here have kinda been
here for a while, right? The renters that you have.
PM:
The renters, yeah, they’ve been there. I mean, I don’t charge much rent. A lot of
people like that, and I got good tenants, so I’m happy. If I can get ‘em to cut the
grass and stuff like that, (laughs) that would be great.
JJ:
That’s part of the agreement?
PM:
No. (laughs) But pretty much, that’s pretty much it. That’s what we got.
JJ:
Okay, [01:02:00] any final thoughts?
PM:
I covered it all. That’s it.
END OF VIDEO FILE
49
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6666aa05ad86c85c6a3fefe18aefc6b.mp4
2fb9f09f6628b16ac3ec8cd92639c52c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Description
An account of the resource
Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives.
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-25
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
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eng
spa
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
2012-2017
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Título
Spanish language Title entry
Patrick Mateo vídeo entrevista y biografía
Sujetos
Spanish language Subject terms
Young Lords (Organización)
Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos
Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales
Justicia social
Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65_Mateo_Patrick
Title
A name given to the resource
Patrick Mateo video interview and transcript
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mateo, Patrick
Description
An account of the resource
Patrick Mateo is a Young Lord who was born in the United States but lived many years in Puerto Rico. His family is from Salinas. But he and his siblings grew up in Chicago starting at Van Buren, the old La Madison barrio, and in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is currently living in Puerto Rico. Mr. Mateo fixes his own cars and studied carpentry and building maintenance. He can build you a house from scratch. His mother lived in a convent for some time and attends church regularly at St. Joseph’s in Grand Rapids. Mr. Mateo, who also dabbles in music, has played and sung for the church choir. He is a community organizer. Mr. Mateo has also worked on several Young Lords projects including the Latino Support Group that became the first bilingual, bicultural support group in Grand Rapids. The Latino Support Group was a volunteer program that received referrals from the courts and probation departments to assist Latinos with substance abuse issues. Mr. Mateo also helped to organize the KO CLUB, an afterschool neighborhood program to prevent youth from becoming involved with gang violence. And he also helped to organize several Lincoln Park Camps in Michigan, to educate people about the Young Lords and to recruit volunteers who would assist in documenting their history. Each of the camps were self-supported by a donated fee, provided a weekend get-away, and proved positive and memorable events. Mr. Mateo has a large family that looks to him as its leader. The Fernández side is also large and well established in Grand Rapids. They include church pastors, school principals, and businesspersons. He describes rough times and perseverance. And he remains a role model and pacesetter for others in his community.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-07-22
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/136aebe17b9adbb33362618e32ce9d03.pdf
a24d36534d35cff5503f5d9eb3e122cf
PDF Text
Text
Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Pedro J. Mateo
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 3/8/2012
Biography and Description
English
Pedro Mateo is from Salinas, Puerto and now lives in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He first came to Grand
Rapids in the 1950s, but quickly moved to Indiana Harbor to work in the steel mills alongside many other
Puerto Rican immigrants of that era. Mr. Mateo describes the steel mill culture and the Puerto Rican
community that developed in Indiana Harbor beginning in the 1940s. After a short time in Indiana
Harbor, Mr. Mateo moved with his family to Van Buren Street near Ashland Avenue in Chicago, in the
barrio area then known to Puerto Ricans as La Madison. La Madison and La Clark were two Puerto Rican
barrios carved out of two high density neighborhoods where old, dilapidated hotel rooms were
converted into low rent apartments. These areas attracted large numbers of Puerto Rican immigrants
because most saw their move to Chicago as temporary, offering the possibility of making higher wages
so they could return to the island.
In the 1960s, Mr. Mateo moved to Addison Ave. and Wilson Street, next to Wrigley Field. It was here
that he first met the Young Lords. Mr. Mateo describes his daily travels by train to La Clark to work at
“Las Gomas,” or a rubber factory, by New Orleans and Chicago Avenue. He ultimately returned to Grand
Rapids, where his large, extended family plays a prominent role in the city’s Latino community.
�Spanish
Pedro Matea es de Salinas, Puerto Rico y ahora vive en Grand Rapids, Michigan. El primero vino a Grand
Rapids en los 1950s pero decidió mudarse a Indiana Harbor para trabar en la acería con otros
inmigrantes Puertorriqueños en esa aria. Aquí Señor Mateo describe como era la cultura de la acería y la
comunidad que desarrollo en Indiana Harbor (empezando en 1940). Después do un tiempo en Indian
Harbor, Señor Mateo se mudo con su familia a Van Buren Street cerca de Ashland Avenue en Chicago en
el barrio que llaman, La Madison. La Madison y La Clark eran dos barrios Puertorriqueños en donde
hoteles fueron convertidos ah apartamentos alquilados bajo. Estas arias atrajeron muchos
Puertorriqueños porque muchos vieron este mudo a Chicago como temporario y hacia la posibilidad de
juntar más dinero para regresar a Puerto Rico.
En los 1960s, Señor Mateo se mudo a Addison Ave y Wilson Street, alado de Wrigley Field. Aquí fue
donde conoció a los Young Lords. Señor Mateo también habla sobre sus viajes diarios a La Clark por tren
para trabajar en “Las Gomas” la factoría por New Orleans y Chicago Avenue. Pedro Mateo finalmente
regreso a Grand Rapids donde la mayoría de su familia jugo una parte grande de la comunidad Latina.
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6bb098876e9e13dd4e48be0a77b221d1.mp4
e87f9e4c058c76b2e634cbfed48e75ca
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Description
An account of the resource
Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives.
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
2012-2017
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Título
Spanish language Title entry
Pedro J. Mateo vídeo entrevista y biografía
Descripción
Spanish language Description entry
Pedro Matea es de Salinas, Puerto Rico y ahora vive en Grand Rapids, Michigan. El primero vino a Grand Rapids en los 1950s pero decidió mudarse a Indiana Harbor para trabar en la acería con otros inmigrantes Puertorriqueños en esa aria. Aquí Señor Mateo describe como era la cultura de la acería y la comunidad que desarrollo en Indiana Harbor (empezando en 1940). Después do un tiempo en Indian Harbor, Señor Mateo se mudo con su familia a Van Buren Street cerca de Ashland Avenue en Chicago en el barrio que llaman, La Madison. La Madison y La Clark eran dos barrios Puertorriqueños en donde hoteles fueron convertidos ah apartamentos alquilados bajo. Estas arias atrajeron muchos Puertorriqueños porque muchos vieron este mudo a Chicago como temporario y hacia la posibilidad de juntar más dinero para regresar a Puerto Rico. En los 1960s, Señor Mateo se mudo a Addison Ave y Wilson Street, alado de Wrigley Field. Aquí fue donde conoció a los Young Lords. Señor Mateo también habla sobre sus viajes diarios a La Clark por tren para trabajar en “Las Gomas” la factoría por New Orleans y Chicago Avenue. Pedro Mateo finalmente regreso a Grand Rapids donde la mayoría de su familia jugo una parte grande de la comunidad Latina.
Sujetos
Spanish language Subject terms
Young Lords (Organización)
Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos
Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales
Idioma español--Relatos personales
Justicia social
Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago
Puertorriqueños--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65_Mateo_Pedro
Title
A name given to the resource
Pedro J. Mateo video interview and biography
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mateo, Pedro
Description
An account of the resource
Pedro Mateo is from Salinas, Puerto Rico and now lives in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He first came to Grand Rapids in the 1950s, but quickly moved to Indiana Harbor to work in the steel mills alongside many other Puerto Rican immigrants of that era. Mr. Mateo describes the steel mill culture and the Puerto Rican community that developed in Indiana Harbor beginning in the 1940s. After a short time in Indiana Harbor, Mr. Mateo moved with his family to Van Buren Street near Ashland Avenue in Chicago, in the barrio area then known to Puerto Ricans as La Madison. In the 1960s, Mr. Mateo moved to Addison Ave. and Wilson Street, next to Wrigley Field. It was here that he first met the Young Lords. Mr. Mateo describes his daily travels by train to La Clark to work at “Las Gomas,” or a rubber factory, by New Orleans and Chicago Avenue. He ultimately returned to Grand Rapids, where his large, extended family plays a prominent role in the city’s Latino community.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Puerto Ricans--Personal narratives
Spanish language--Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Puerto Ricans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions
Language
A language of the resource
spa
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-03-08
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives