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                    <text>ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
VIVIAN KELLOGG, First Base
Women in Baseball
Born: Jackson, Michigan
Resides: Brooklyn, Michigan
Interviewed by: James Smither, PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, August 5, 2010,
Detroit, Michigan at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion.
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, November 12, 2010
Interviewer: “Vivian, can you begin by telling us a little bit about your background.
Start with where were you born?
I was born in Jackson, Michigan and I played softball for a couple of teams in Jackson.
Interviewer: “In what year were you born?”
1922
Interviewer: “When did you first start to play ball?”
Ever since I could get my hands on a ball. My mother died when I was seventeen months
old, so I never knew my mother, but my brothers and sisters actually raised me and time
after time I had a different boss because they would get married and leave home. My
youngest brother was nine years older than I was and he had to baby sit and he set me to
throwing. 10:45 If he ever wanted to go out and play ball, he had to take me or else he
couldn’t go. They would stick me out in the outfield, but eventually I would work up to
playing in the infield, but I played ball as long as I can remember and all my school years
I was into sports. It was my brothers that taught me to play ball.
Interviewer: “At what point did you start to play on a girls’ team?”
You had to be a certain age and I think I was seventeen. We had to sign in too at that
time, have our parents sign. Whichever one was my boss at that time is the one that
signed the paper. 11:42

1

�Interviewer: “Then did you play with a local league?”
Yes, just a local league.
Interviewer: “How is it you got involved with the All American Girls League?”
I was playing in a state tournament representing Michigan and the tournament was held
in Lansing and a scout was scouting for women’s baseball and that’s how I got involved
in it.
Interviewer: “Now, did this scout introduce himself?”
Yes, he told us and I signed the contract, but I didn’t play until after the tournament, our
bowling tournament, but we didn’t come in first place, but anyway we finished.
Interviewer: “So, when did you actually join the league and start playing then?”
12:42
Interviewer: “Did you play in 1943?”
No, that’s when I was playing softball and it was 1944 when I actually played with the
Minneapolis Millerettes.
Interviewer: “When you were going to start the season then in 1944, did you go to
spring training first? Did they have that?”
Yes
Interviewer: “Where was it?”
It was in Chicago and they picked the teams. The girls on different teams and I was
picked for Minneapolis, so when it folded because of no attendance we came to the Fort
Wayne Daisies.
Interviewer: “Did you play a year when you were in Minneapolis or did you
immediately move?”

2

�We used the same ball field as the Minneapolis baseball team because we were playing
when they were on the road, but did we learn a lot in those locker rooms. That’s how we
traveled, but we lived in private homes and when it was folded we were on the bus from
town to town. 14:10 We stayed in hotels because at that time there weren’t motels.
Interviewer: “Did you just have one season in Minneapolis or part of one season?”
Just half a season
Interviewer: “Half a season”
The next season the Fort Wayne franchise bought it.
Interviewer: “In the meantime you were just a kind of barnstorming team then?”
Now, if we were scheduled to play Racine and it was supposed to be on our field, but we
played on Racine’s field, we just reversed who was the home team, but we didn’t have a
home ground until 1945.
Interviewer: “OK now, what position did you play?”
I played first base.
Interviewer: “Why did you play first base other than something else?”
When I played softball I was a catcher, but when I went to play in the baseball league
they put me on first base, so that’s how I got on first base. 15:14
Interviewer: “So, they just told you to play there. Now, were you a good hitter?”
I could hit, but I couldn’t run. I got a standing ovation once because I stole second base,
but I enjoyed the game very much and it was hard at times, but it was gratifying because
we were doing something for our country, we were entertaining on the home front
because in baseball the boys were all drafted. We got to—when we were returning home
from spring training we would play at army camps, different ones. We stayed in the

3

�barracks and seen how they lived. When they put up a diamond they would just mark it
off and we played baseball for the soldiers at camp and on our last trip we played at
Battle Creek and that’s where the German prisoners were held and after the game we
went to Percy Jones Hospital because that’s where the veterans were in the hospital, so
we visited maybe forty five minutes to an hour which they enjoyed because they only
saw the doctors and the nurses and aids during the day, so they enjoyed our visit. 16:55
Interviewer: “Was it part of your motivation to join the league? Was this
something you could do for the war effort?”
When they signed me I had no idea it was for the war effort until I signed the contract
and then Mr. Wrigley and at that time, the President of the United States—that’s why we
got to have gas because we were entertaining on the home front and in the army camps.
Interviewer: “So, you signed the contract just to play ball and you learn then that
this is part of something bigger, so you’re doing something—you’re making your
own contribution there, but you learned about that later?”
Well, I played seven years and I thought it was time I got out because I had to make a
living, so I quit and I stayed in Fort Wayne three years and in ten years I returned home
and I went to work for a dentist and I worked for him for thirty years. 18:40
Interviewer: “Talk a little bit more about the actual experience of playing in the
league. Who do you think were the best players on your team?”
Well, you can’t judge—maybe I give them all credit; give them all credit for the position
they played and how they got along with the teams and with their teammates. So, I think
the Daisies got along together because we spent twenty-four hours, seven days a week
together. 19:26

4

�Interviewer: “Who was the manager while you were with them?”
Well, I had Bill Wambsganns who use to be—Harold Greiner, Jimmy Foxx, and my first
manager was a fellow from the southern states who played in major baseball, but do you
think I can remember his name? 19:50 The manager we had, some of them were retired
baseball players like Jimmy Foxx and that. We did learn things, like, one day I had to
stand on first base for a half hour shifting from one leg to the other to make sure I was
getting the rhythm right, like if I hit my left foot on the base or if I hit my right foot, my
left foot was out, so it was different than softball where you just caught the ball period.
20:42
Interviewer: “So they were giving you some coaching and you were learning more
as you were going. Now, how much of the etiquette training and the make-up stuff,
how much of that did you have to do?”
We always had a physical and we had a check-up with the doctor and sometimes we
would have to get up do practice that day. If the team wasn’t harmonizing, getting along
and losing we would have to have practice.
Interviewer: “In the movie, one of the things they made a big deal of was the
etiquette and Helena Rubenstein and all of that stuff. How much of that did you
experience?” 21:43
Of what?
Interviewer: “Did you have a lot of rules to follow?”
Oh yes, we had to be a certain distance, length and we couldn’t wear slacks outside, we
always had to have a skirt on and in the school they taught us how to sit and how to
appear for the public because, I wasn’t, but a lot of the girls were from the farms, so they

5

�didn’t have that and the charm school was to teach us, like I say, how to handle your self
in public and dress proper. 22:40
Interviewer: “What kind of fan support did you have? Did you have a lot of
people coming to your games?”
At first we took a lot of ribbing, “go home where you belong”, “go take care of your
kids”, but eventually we won them over because it was something to entertain them and
the wives were always wondering why their husbands were always going to the ball park.
All the fans we had, the men were in the service, so we had the youngsters and females
and elderly men. I can remember one time we were playing in Racine, and that’s just
outside of Chicago near the navy station and there was a couple of sailors around first
base were heckling me and at that time we didn’t take our coats to the dugout, we just
threw them up against the fence and he was riding me and riding me and I had a torn
cartilage and I had a knee brace on and when I was going down first base he said, “take
the piano off your back”, so when I got in the dugout I said, “anybody got any money?”
Timmy said, “I have a nickel”, and I said, “give it to me”, so I gave the two fellows a
nickel and said, “put this in your organ “, and afterwards they met me at the gate and
asked us out for dinner. 24:29 Of course we couldn’t because we were chaperoned, but
they were nice enough.
Interviewer: “They had you playing wearing a knee brace?”
Yeah, and as a matter of fact I got two knee braces on now because I have torn cartilage
. At that time they removed it the first time I had a leg wound or torn ligament, but they
don’t do that now, but they went in that knee twice and this knee once, so I was no speed
demon on the bases. 25:11

6

�Interviewer: “I’m a little surprised they had you playing at all, but at first base you
don’t run that much.”
If our right fielder or somebody was hurt and I didn’t have a brace on, I would go out and
play right field, but very seldom because of my hitting and not my running, my hitting.
Interviewer: “Are there particular things that happened in particular games that
you remember really well or if you think back to when you were playing are there
events that you remember?” 26:05
This was all new to me, so everything was an event to me, but I do have a lot of
memories of different things that are gone and the friendships that I made and how the
public treated us. At first, especially the men, didn’t think women should be playing
baseball and we had to block our hearing off so that we wouldn’t be interrupted. We had
to have rabbit ears, that’s what we called them. The only time I ever said anything to a
fan was when those two sailors that were ribbing me and it wasn’t doing any harm to me,
but I could hear them because it was close to first base and after that I never said a thing.
I did get a letter from them saying the next time they come could I go out for a steak
dinner, so I knew I didn’t hurt their feelings. 27:20
Interviewer: “Are there particular games, individual games, that you remember
well? Are there things that stand out from your playing career?”
Dotty Collins was out pitcher and I remember we had a double header and she pitched
both games and won them and we kind of stuck up for one another and backed them up.
See, our rules, we had league rules, but the managers from different teams had different
ideas, so some of the girls didn’t like them for that reason, but I had no complaints
because I was getting paid. 28:16

7

�Interviewer: “How much did they pay you?”
Well, I was working for the telephone company, Michigan Bell Telephone Co. and I was
making $37.50 a week. I signed a contract for $70.00 a week and I thought I was a
millionaire because it was twice as much and back in 1942 $37.50 was good money, but
when they said $75.00, I thought, wow! We had to pay for our own meals at home and
rent, but on the road we got $33.75 a day and back then you could buy breakfast for a
quarter, dinner for seventy-five cents and lunch for a dollar and a half. You could save
that money that you didn’t use, so when you got home you had money for lunches then.
29:21
Interviewer: “Did you save money while you were in the league?”
Yeah, I bought a car when cars were available.
Interviewer: “If you were making seventy dollars a week, that was more money
than some of the other players were making?”
Some made more than that and it was who the scout was and if you notice in the records,
the California gals seemed to come up with the higher wages than others did.
Interviewer: “there were some who were making fifty dollars a week and not
seventy.”
Yeah, there were some under that, but $75.00 is what I started out with.
Interviewer: “While you were playing, did your team ever win the championship?”
Close to it a couple times. 30:30
Interviewer: “What was the closest you got?”
Well, we did win it once and I know I made $500.00 and that’s when I bought my first
car when we won.

8

�Interviewer: “You were talking a little bit about your decision to stop playing,
explain that a little bit more, why did you give up playing?”
The reason was, I wasn’t getting any younger and I was wearing braces because that one
leg was bothering me and I thought, “I’ll get out while I’m still walking, which I’m not
doing today, and then I went to work in Fort Wayne and I worked at different gymnastics
and Turners was a club that sports and I worked for the Lincoln Life Insurance Company.
I worked there three years and I kind of wanted to come home, so I came home, when I
say home, to Jackson, and I didn’t know what I was going to do. 31:29 I had no place to
go and I had to find an apartment. I bought war bonds and I sold war bonds during the
war and those war bonds came in handy for me because then I could find a place to live
and find a job. I went to work for Dr. Schreiner, a dentist, and I worked for him for thirty
years and I started out on the money from the war bonds that I bought and cashed in.
32:25
Interviewer: “If you look back at your baseball career, what effect do you think
that had on you?”
Well, I was shy, I never forwarded myself like when I was in school I might have known
the answer, but I would never raise my hand to answer it. Sometimes when the teacher
would call my attention I would get tongue-tied. It was just that way, but since I’ve
joined the league, I have come out to where I can now go out and speak to youngsters
about sports and the personalities and of the All American Girls league and how it
started. That helped me because otherwise I kind of stood back. 33:23
Interviewer: “Did the people who knew you in Jackson after your baseball career,
did they know you were a ball player?”

9

�No, and when I came home they would ask me where I had been for the last ten years and
I would tell them I was playing baseball and they never heard of it, so I never bothered to
talk about it because nobody believed it and even some close relatives never did. When
the movie came out, A League of Their Own, and they saw Penny Marshall interview
different players that had started in the league, so when the movie came out and we were
inducted, then they said, “why didn’t you tell us, why didn’t you tell us you played ball?”
I said, “Because nobody would listen”. They didn’t believe girls played baseball. 34:19
Interviewer: “When you were playing ball, did you think of yourselves as pioneers
or people who were doing something new and important?”
All I can think of is it was fun, it was tough at times, but it was gratifying knowing we
had done something for our country.
Interviewer: “Later on, when you get into the 1970’s and 1980’s you have a lot
more women in sports, you have title nine and all of that.”
I feel that’s what had to go to ball because we were the ones that pushed that for girls
softball because I can remember when I worked for the Jackson recreation, excuse me,
before I started playing ball and when I came back I worked for them and played rounds
and different things and if the girls had a game and the boys were rained out, the boys
had the privilege of the diamond. When Brooklyn, where I live now, Brooklyn,
Michigan, when they dedicated a ball diamond, there were four at the complex and I said,
“I want one for the girls only”, so that’s what they did, there’s four games played at the
same time and one of them is the girls diamond. 36:07 When they dedicated it they
invited me in to talk to the girls and I said, “this is your diamond and be proud to play on
it. It will help women’s sports”, so they did and they won a championship a couple of

10

�times, the girl’s softball. It’s the high school girls and now I will get a call from one of
them asking if I would like to come out and see a game. No matter who calls me to ask
me to come out and watch them play. Sometimes the boys, the little league, I didn’t
know them because they had helmets and all that equipment on and their mothers would
be sitting next to them and I would say, “which one’s your son’s number”, because of all
the equipment. 37:12 I remember asking one little boy, “who’s the best player on your
team?” He said, “I am”, so I agreed with him. That’s what I got out of my baseball, the
thrill of coaching little girls as well as little boys and I feel the boys were as interested in
it as the girls.
Interviewer: “Interested in the fact that you played? They liked that too.”
Yeah,
Interviewer: “I think now people recognize how unusual your league was and how
significant it was, so now we have a way of understanding that and appreciating it.
Maybe they didn’t have that. Are there any other thoughts you would like to put on
the record here before we close out the interview?”
The people I feel bad about supported us, were here for the recognition and they’re the
ones that supported us and that’s the only regret I have is that we were so long in getting
recognized that they are gone. 38:31
Interviewer: “Other players or other people who started the league? Players that
are gone?”
Oh yes, there are more associates in our league now than there are players, as a matter of
fact, we lost two here this month.

11

�Interviewer: “We’re doing our best to catch up with you while you’re still here, so
thank you very much for coming in and talking to me today.”
Thank you. 38:56

12

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Kenneth Kelly
(01:47:10)
Background
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Born on a farm in Coopersville, MI. (0:24)
One of nine children, six boys and three girls (00:30)
His father, Asa Kelly, was a WWI veteran. (00:36)
His mother was Hazel Easterly, who came from a family with thirteen children.
(00:42)
Big families were common in those days, as more children helped work on the farm.
(00:53)
Graduated High School in June of 1943. (00:58)
Enlisted in the U.S. Navy construction battalions, the Sea Bees. (1:13)
Born on 8/21/1925. (1:19)
His family did relatively well during the Depression, despite having a large family.
Everyone at the time was in a similar situation. (1:38)
Suspects his parents may have had a harder time than the children. (1:52)
His father was a school teacher. His mother died in 1937. (2:04)
His eldest sister graduated high school the same year his mother died. She acted like
a surrogate mother to the younger children. (2:06)
Recounts that his father did have a harder time during the depression. (2:30)
Three of his brothers served in the Army during WWII (2:45)
Father was stationed at “Camp Custer,” which was later “Fort Custer.” (3:00)
His father was a Lieutenant during WWI. (3:16)
During WWI Asa confiscated a set of dice from some gambling soldiers, and took
them home after the war. (3:23)
Kenneth's oldest brother went to MSU (all but one went to MSU) and enrolled in the
ROTC program at MSU. His brother graduated in 1941. (3:44)
His brother was sent to Camp Custer for training. (4:06)
Asa and Hazel were married when he was training in Camp Custer, and their eldest
son was born in Battle Creek. (4:19)
Kenneth spent fifty years selling overhead cranes and monorail equipment. (4:37)
After Fort Custer became an industrial park, Japanese and German firms invested in
the area. Kenneth sold equipment to these firms. (4:47)
Comments on the irony of selling equipment to the Germans and Japanese, when he
had fought them in WWII. (5:04)
Kenneth did not participate in ROTC, he had only gone to High School at that time.
ROTC was not a high school program at the time. (5:16)
Enlisted as an apprentice seamen. (5:31)

Pre-Enlistment
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Served two years, seven months as part of the Navy's construction team. (5:34)
Many boys at his high school were worried about being drafted right after
graduating. (5:50)
Eight to ten boys at his school enlisted prior to graduating. Upon their return from
the war they were given diplomas, despite not finishing school. (6:04)
Pearl Harbor was attacked when he was sixteen. (6:31)

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At the time of the attack, he was at home listening to a radio show on a Sunday
afternoon. The attack was interrupted with an announcement. (6:44)
Had no idea where Pearl Harbor was located, but the radio soon informed them.
(7:04)
The attack took everyone by surprise. The war was brought home to them in a way
they had not expected. They had known that President Roosevelt was helping the
British, but being very young he hadn't read up about the situation in depth. (7:22)
People became even more worried about the draft. (7:54)
Some men enlisted in order to avoid being assigned to the Army when they were
drafted. (8:07)
Men drafted into the army usually became “dog faces” or infantry. (8:09)
Worked part time at a local gas station. (8:26)
Gasoline was rationed at the time, so he had to learn how to handle the ration
coupons. (8:37)
The ration was four gallons per week. (9:08)
Four gallons per week was not very much, but it was enough for most people to get
by at the time. (9:10)
A few people cheated the system. (9:25)
The gas station was frequently audited by government officials in order to prevent
cheating. (9:43)
While he was still in high school, he researched the different military branches in
order to decide which to enlist in. (10:07)
The Navy looked like the best branch for him. The Navy usually had clean beds,
good food, and clean clothes. (10:52)
A few times in the South Pacific he had to struggle. The lack of fresh water was the
most frequent problem. (11:08)

Training
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Camp Perry, near Williamsburg, VA was the start of his training. (11:36)
Almost all of the Sea Bees were trained at Camp Perry. There were 350,000 Sea
Bees in WWII. (11:50)
A battalion was formed by eleven hundred men. (12:00)
He arrived in Camp Perry in August, left in late October or early November. The
next location was in Gulfport, MS. (12:31)
At the Tampali Bay base he was given advance training. (12:31)
Military training—marching, how to salute, and obey orders was trained at Camp
Perry. (12:40)
At Tampali Bay, he was given infantry training. The Sea Bees were very involved
during invasions. (12:55)
The infantry training was for self-defense. (13:26)
Primary duty of the Sea Bees was to build bases for other operations. These bases
were used by all branches of the military. Most of the bases were in the Pacific.
(13:36)
Continued his infantry training. (14:07)
Went out on bivouac. (14:21)
He was surprised at the cold weather in Mississippi. He thought it would be much
warmer. (14:36)
The tents they slept in weren't fire-resistant. (14:50)
They had to get firewood, and store it in the tents. (15:07)
Men were put on duty to watch for tent fires. (15:07)

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When he was on guard duty, he often stole wood from other tents. (15:48)
Practiced invasions on an island in the Gulf of Mexico. (15:56)
While in Mississippi, he went on “liberty” for twelve to twenty-four hours. He
usually went to New Orleans during his leave. (16:00)
He enlisted at age seventeen. He turned eighteen during training. (16:34)
Couldn't drink because he was only seventeen. (16:54)
The Navy Blue uniform had three stripes on the collar, and three on the cuffs. Many
men in the Navy rolled back there cuffs past the stripes. One day as he was on
liberty, some military policeman stopped his group of friends. His friends all had
there sleeves rolled back, but he did not. As a result his friends were taken to the
holding pen for being out of uniform. Afterwards, he always kept his cuffs unrolled.
(16:58-17:45)
Camp Perry is still around, but in a different form. He tried visiting the area again
twenty-five years later, but was not allowed in. He found out it was the training
base, or “Farm” for the CIA. (18:19-18:43)
While in Camp Perry the men were formed into battalions. (19:03)
He was in the 127th battalion. They trained as a battalion from that point forward.
(19:08)
The Navy needed men immediately in the Pacific, and they asked the battalion to
select men to send out early. The battalions selected men they didn't like. As a
result, one of his friends was selected, but he was not. His friend talked him to
volunteering. His action was following the advice of a chief petty officer. (19:2519:56)
[DVD skips] (20:24-20:28)
[DVD skips again] (21:00-21:13)
The term “polliwog” was a Navy term for someone who hadn't crossed Equator.
Someone who had was called a “shellback.” When he crossed the equator he was
given a certificate, and subjected to an initiation. (21:30)
His initiation was simply being squirted with sea-water. Some of the other men
were smeared with axle grease. The initiation was usually more severe, but there
were so many recruits involved it was difficult. (21:34)
Had to bow to a man dressed as King Neptune as part of the initiation. (22:17)
He purchased some war bonds for $18.75. They matured into $25 bonds later on.
He used the bonds to finance part of his wedding. (22:38)

Shipped out
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Took off for the Pacific, through the Panama Canal. (23:23)
The only time he had fresh water showers was while crossing the Panama canal.
The fresh water was from a nearby lake. (23:37)
Stopped at the Galapagos Islands, but did not go ashore. (23:55)
The destroyer escort had to refuel. (24:00)
Destroyer refueled again in Tahiti, and again in New Caledonia. While in New
Caledonia, US Navy airplanes flew overhead. One of the planes had engine
problems and crashed in the ocean. The men on the plane deployed an orange raft
and were picked up by the destroyer. (24:16)
New Hebrides Islands were among the first islands used as advance bases. The
islands were used to build up supplies and troops. (25:17)
At the Espiritu Santu Island he was taken off the boat. There were no barracks on
the island, so they slept in a church. (25:52)
Had a steel helmet, and a 1933 Springfield rfle. (26:36)

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When sleeping in church, he slept on a pew and used his backpack as a pillow. He
slept cradling his rifle. (26:45)
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He was put on another ship, this time an LST (Landing Ship Tank) and went to
Guadalcanal. They stopped for one day, and were put on another ship. (26:58)
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Next they were sent to Kuko Beach. (27:11)
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Spend two weeks in New Guinea. (27:19)
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Put to work at New Guinea. He worked nights at the ammunitions facility loading
and unloading ammunition onto trucks. (27:38)
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Got a bad sliver while working, and went to sick bay for treatment. Despite the
medical treatment and disinfectant he came down with a severe infection. Part of his
finger had to be removed. (28:08)
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He was put on another ship, which was a badly maintained “rust bucket.” He still
had not seen any combat at this point. (28:50)
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Headed for the Admiralty Islands on a convoy with two destroyer escorts. (29:05)
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His ship's engine stopped running. All the men were told to watch for submarine
periscopes. One of the destroyers came back to check on them, but the other ships
kept going. (29:22)
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The radio on the ship was also nonfunctional, so the men on the destroyer and the
convoy had to use megaphones. (29:50)
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They didn't know how long the delay would be. (30:23)
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The destroyer had to keep up with the rest of the convoy, and would not be able to
stay behind permanently. (30:42)
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Experienced electricians on board the ship were able to fix the problems. (30:55)
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They managed to catch up with the rest of the convoy. (31:07)
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Sailed onto Los Negros islands. (31:15)
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Time spent in transit was three months. The battle they had been sent to assist in was
still on-going. (31:23)
Medals and Symbols
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Received a medal for the Asiatic Pacific Theater. He also received two battle-stars,
one for the Admiralties, and one for Okinawa. He also received a victory medal and
a Good Conduct medal. (31:53)
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The symbol with eagle and a circle was put on the uniforms. (31:57)
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in 1995 he received a pin as part of the reunion. The inscription reads A grateful
nation remembers, WWII 1995 1945.” (33:38)
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Joined the 78th Sea Bee regiment, which was one of three in the area. The 40th and
2nd regiments were also used. His initial battalion was split three ways to join the
other battalions (34:01)
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The symbol on his sweatshirt was drawn by Disney artists in 1943 before he joined
the 78th. The 78th had been based in Oxnard, CA and some men had asked the artists
to draw them a symbol. The symbol is a fighting bee with a tommy-gun, a monkey
wrench and a hammer. (34:16)
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The new members of the 78th were not well liked by the older members. The senior
members had been deployed from October to November of 1943, and when the new
recruits came they knew they wouldn't be going back home soon. (35:49)
Admiralties
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The men were given tents, which were sixteen feet by sixteen feet. He was part of C
Company. They were told where to put the tent, and given stakes. The wooden
stakes did not work because of the ground, so they had to get new metal reinforced
stakes. (36:42)

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He was on a sandy beach, with palm trees. (37:47)
The trees were coconut palms. He enjoyed the pleasant weather, 150 miles from the
Equator. (38:20)
Most of the men walked about shirtless, in shorts and a cap. Many had sunburns.
(38:51)
The camp was near a captured air base. It was the first area they had taken. (39:05)
Expanded and enlarged the existing air field for four engine bombers. (39:22)
The Japanese airfields were not large enough for the large planes, such as the B-24
bombers. (39:23)
The bombers began their raids at any hour, but often very early. (40:18)
Around 4:00 AM they heard a loud crash, so they went to check the fuel supplies.
They had fuel for the bulldozers, dump trucks, cranes, and other construction
equipment. (40:35)
A plane crashed into the nearby Sea Bee (40th regiment) and exploded. Thirty men
were killed, and seventy wounded. (40:59)
The area was a mess. He and some others found four unexploded bombs in a whole
near the crashed bomber. (41:35)
The Sea Bees included older men with construction experience. The average age of
the Sea Bees was 37, the average age of the Marine Corps was around 23. Twentyfive men in his regiment were WWI veterans. (42:05)
The Sea Bees had learned to improvise with building materials and food supplies.
They cut down trees to build a dock in the area. (42:47)
Some of the lumber from the mill was inconsistent, although it was good quality
overall. They usually used tropical woods, like teak. (44:02)
The Sea Bees were often complimented by higher officers because of their speed.
Kenneth explains they used shifts to work 24/7. Also, the men didn't have much else
to do. Work was a way to relieve boredom. (44:28)

End of the war
•

When the war ended he was driving a tractor at 2 AM in Okinawa. He had been
deployed for eighteen months. (45:06)
•
In Okinawa, he worked on an airfield for B29 bombers. (45:49)
•
The airstrip was two miles long. (46:00)
•
It was impossible to hear the air raid sirens over the noise of the tractors. They only
knew of an air raid when shots were fired. (46:19)
•
During bombing raids, most of the Sea Bees hid under their tractors. They were
never hit by the bombers as they were after the ships. (46:59)
•
Heard people cheering while he was running the tractor. He talked to the antiaircraft men, thinking that perhaps there had been a raid, and was informed that the
war was over. (47:20)
•
He shut down the tractor and went back to camp. He was scolded for quitting early.
(47:37)
Back in the Admiralties, earlier
•
Worked on the dock at the Admiralties. The Admiralties was the largest base, it was
constructed for invasion and re-taking of the Philippines. The area had good harbor
facilities. (48:00)
•
Worked under General MacArthur. (48:44)
•
While he worked at the dock there were many types of ships: Navy, ammunition,
tankers, troop ships, hospital ships, and little boats. (49:00)
•
One of his friends told him “hey, look” and he saw a huge pillar of smoke and flame.

�(49:18)
•
He had to get under shelter, so he hid underneath a crane. (49:37)
•
An ammunition ship with three hundred men on board exploded. The hull of the
ship was later found with the dead men. Seventy-five men on other ships were
killed by debris. (49:58)
•
Quonset huts were used as a multi-purpose building, everything from barracks and
hospitals to warehouses. (51:27)
Pictures, Miscellaneous stories(51:59-1:10:46)
•
The official term of the tents they used was a “shelter-half,” each man carried half a
tent which he joined to other halves. (53:26)
•
Patrol Nat Balintae disappeared during the war. Nat had painted the pictures he
showed to the interviewer earlier. (54:10)
•
While on board, they had a ship-store. At the ship-store they could buy toothpaste,
candy, and other items. The store ran at a profit and used the proceeds to create a
log book at the end of the war. (55:00)
•
Phoebe the Sea Bee was in the book, also by Disney. (56:52)
•
Was in an article by the Grand Rapids Press. (57:19)
•
His eldest brother was in the Army for thirty years. (57:38)
•
Ran into his second eldest brother at Okinawa. (57:50)
•
Has a Japanese pistol from Okinawa. The pistol was based off the German Luger.
His brother was in the invasion of Okinawa, and often patrolled behind enemy lines
in the anti-tank platoon. He came across a dead Japanese officer and a dead girl.
They believed the man had shot the girl and them himself. (59:91)
•
[Tape switched] (59:36)
•
In the Grand Rapids Press, there was a picture of him before he joined the Navy.
(59:44)
•
Picture of the Gulfport, MS Sea Bee reunion. (1:00:00)
•
New Sea bees were also at the reunion. (1:00:26)
•
They picked coral out of the sea, and used it like concrete. The coral was crushed
and then bonded like concrete. (1:01:57)
•
He operated a “sheep's foot roller.” (1:01:31)
•
Aleut Island, built an airfield on Panan Island. (1:01:39)
•
Has a picture of the airfield, which one of his comrades obtained online. The website
indicating wrongly that the airfield was built by British and Australians. (1:02:52)
•
Picture of the cemetery and th chapel. (1:03:39)
•
The Sea Bees did a lot of earthmoving and drainage. (1:04:13)
•
Constructed a water tower, which converted salt water into freshwater. (1:04:38)
•
Has the original plans for Okinawa. They were never fully implemented as the war
ended. (1:06:31)
•
Picture of the exploded fuel pumps, and of an explosion used to mine the coral.
(1:07:06)
•
In November 1944, he was disappointed at not being sent on leave to Australasia.
(1:07:45)
•
There was a brothel in Noumea, which was on the French island of New Caledonia.
The US Navy had a special room at the brothel. (1:08:32)
•
Their chapel was multi-denominational. They held Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish
services. (1:08:50)
•
A picture of a Japanese small craft which was re-built and used by the Navy.
(1:10:00)

�•
•
•

The camp was about fifty feet from a cliff overlooking the ocean. (1:10:39)
Was nominated President of his WWII association. (1:11:00)
Two of his grandchildren are GVSU graduates. (1:11:42)

Training
•

Was not trained by WWI veterans. He was trained by members of the US Marines
who had served in Panama. (1:11:53)
•
The Marines hadn't had much experience training other Sea Bee units. The Sea Bees
did not respond well to the Marine trainers, as it was full of older experienced
construction men. The Marines often cursed at the Sea Bees during training, which
the men objected to. Eventually, the some of Sea Bees challenged the Marines to a
fight, and won. (1:12:20)
•
The Marines stopped cursing at the men. (1:13:20)
•
His commanding officer was a WWI vet, and so were some of the military
policemen. (1:13:39)
•
WWI vets talked somewhat about their experiences in WWI. Most conversation
was based on living conditions around the country. (1:14:15)
•
It was easy to tell where someone was from, based on their accents. (1:14:48)
•
Believes he was trained adequately for his experiences. (1:15:42)
Time in Transport
•
Took three months for them to get to the assigned location. (1:15:54)
•
Exercised using calisthenics. (1:15:54)
•
One of the men on the ship developed spinal meningitis, and parts of the ship were
quarantined. (1:16:12)
•
As a result of the quarantine, they always went to the mess hall last. (1:16:20)
•
No one else came down with meningitis. The one man who had it recovered.
(1:16:46)
•
Two meals a day. One day they found worms in the beefaroni and complained.
They were then given new food. (1:17:22)
•
The men were often stinky. The saltwater showers and lard-based soap left them
unpleasantly greasy, so they showered less. (1:17:35)
•
Two typhoons while they were in Okinawa, which sink some ships. It also split their
tent. (1:18:22)
•
Tent curtain was kept up most of the time, because of the heat. Everything got wet
as a result. (1:19:20)
Interaction with civilians
•
Had direct contact with citizens. (1:19:32)
•
The Admiralties were all black. (1:19:38)
•
He sometimes visited civilians, but not frequently. Other men visited more
frequently. (1:19:51)
•
Most of the people were friendly to the Americans. (1:20:06)
•
Believes this is still true today, mostly. (1:20:20)
•
Okinawa was more developed. (1:20:43)
•
Okinawans are not Japanese, and generally dislike the Japanese. He found this out
during the reunion. (1:21:00)
•
During the war, the Japanese told the Okinawans horror stories about the
Americans—that they would kill all the men, and rape the women. (1:21:27)
•
Okinawans moved with the Japanese to avoid the Americans. (1:21:45)
•
The US Navy was ordered to attack the Japanese
•
140,000 civilians were killed in addition to 100,000 Japanese, 9,000 US Army and

�•

Marines, and 5,000 Navy. (1:22:00)
Truman used two atomic bombs. Some of the men worried the Japanese might have
atomic bombs. (1:22:50)

Leisure
•

He was allowed to on “liberty” a few times, but he had nowhere to go. (1:23:30)
•
On the way the way to Okinawa he spent about a week on a small recreation island.
(1:23:48)
•
The recreation island had tennis courts, basketball courts, and he could drink all the
beer he wanted. (1:24:20)
•
Remembers many of the Navy men getting in drunken fights on the island, but that
was just good fun at the time. (1:24:34)
•
Had a pretty good time at the Navy camps. (1:24:50)
•
Built a base facility to take care of minesweepers. (1:25:04)
•
The kitchen (where?) had an ice machine. While on active duty the men where
allowed two beers a week. He and his friends usually saved up the beer for time off.
(1:25:27)
•
On Sundays they would get the beer, ice from the kitchen, buy cigars and play poker.
(1:25:53)
Communication/visits his family, other remarks
•
He was able to keep in contact with his family through the mail service. (1:26:15)
•
The mail was censored, so he couldn't tell his family where he was located.
(1:26:21)
•
Despite being a teacher, his father did not write many letters, and the letters he did
write were only a few paragraphs. (1:26:34)
•
His aunts on his mother's side sent him letters frequently. (1:26:45)
•
He managed to find out his brother Dale was on Okinawa, and that his cousin was
on another nearby island. He found out from his aunts. (1:27:16)
•
One day an Army chief came into the base with two grubby soldiers. The men
entered the officer tent, and came out shortly after. The two soldiers then removed
their helmets, and one of the men was his brother Dale. (1:27:56)
•
Dale had used the truck ID numbers to find him. Dale had come to the area to visit
some wounded men as well. (1:28:55)
•
Kenneth visited his brother frequently, but had to take a gun with him every time he
left the base (1:29:17)
•
During every battle he was given a gun, which he had to return at the end. (1:29:37)
•
Did not have any kamikaze scares with during his various voyages. (1:29:52)
•
He did not directly interact with the Japanese. He was only involved with the
Japanese during the frequent air raids. (1:29:55)
•
The Navy frequently played movies at night in an outdoor theater. He quit one of
the movies early because of an air raid, but other men stayed at the movie. (1:30:20)
Reunion
•
The reunion was a wonderful experience for him. (1:30:44)
•
He flew in on a plane from Osaka, Japan. (1:31:07)
•
Got off the plane at the Naha airport, which was the capital of Okinawa. (1:31:07)
•
There were forty to fifty people waiting for them, they all clapped. They were glad
to see the Americans return. (1:31:33)
•
Each night of the reunion had a special ceremony, with different services. Five
wreaths were thrown in the water for the dead. (1:31:49)
•
A memorial hospital in the area was named after a sailor who had been awarded a

�•

•
•

•
•
•
•

•
•
•
•

medal of honor. The sailor was at the reunion. (1:32:12)
Went jogging in Osaka. They stayed at a fancy hotel. The flight was going to leave
at 11:00. He was jogging with an eighty-five year old, and he was seventy at the
time. The man was his room-mate at the hotel, and had been a shipmate during
WWII. (1:32:54)
He went down a long street, and intended doing a loop around a traffic island.
Instead he got lost, and all the street signs were in Japanese. (1:34:01)
Came across a taxi, asked for directions. Had to ask for directions multiple times.
Eventually he came across a woman who gave him elaborate directions in perfect
English (1:34:44)
He had left around 6:00 AM, the hotel had a checkout time of 7:00 AM. He got back
to the hotel, and his room mate had put his bags outside the room (1:34:54)
His roommate’s grandson was in the Marines. He had a broken ankle and had
accompanied them on the reunion. (1:35:45)
The Commander of the Navy was at the Reunion, and introduced to the grandson.
(1:36:10)
The Okinawans had a special ceremony for the dead (from the earlier mentioned
battle). They listed off the names of each person killed, it took three days and two
nights. (1:36:24)
They had built a remembrance garden full of trees and pillars. Each pillar was
inscribed with the names of the dead. (1:36:50)
At the ceremony, Americans and Japanese planted trees together in the garden.
(1:37:10)
His brother died in 1985, he missed him at the ceremony. (1:37:25)
He was in Okinawa for a week.

Post-War life
•

Spent twenty-two years in the Reserves. (1:37:40)
•
Trained men for Vietnam and Korea. (1:38:48)
•
Enlisted 1947, began taking a commission in 1949. (1:37:54)
•
Retired from the Reserves in 1969. (1:38:06)
•
Trained men in Muskegon, Flint, and Lansing for a short time. (1:38:09)
•
Was the President of Kelly Sales and Engineering Co. He went to college at MSU.
(1:38:30)
•
Started the business in 19693, operated until 2002. (1:39:00)
•
Sons joined in the business. (1:39:11)
•
The business closed in 2002. He retired from the business in 1990, but he still
works as an engineer. (1:39:22)
Opinions on the War in Iraq
•
He doesn't think the draft would be appropriate for the war in Iraq, as there are
sufficient numbers of volunteers. (1:39:53)
•
His grandson is in the Army, and will be leaving for his second tour soon. (1:40:07)
•
Is of the opinion that enlisted men and women accept their job and duty. (1:40:15)
•
Believes they are welcomed by the Iraqis, especially the youth. (1:40:31)
•
A unit of Sea Bees is deployed in Iraq, re-building infrastructure and improving
existing infrastructure. (1:40:37)
More post-War
•
After the war he was still very young. Discharge was based on a points system, and
he had few points due to his age. (1:41:22)
•
He came home for thirty days near Thanksgiving. He went to a Navy field and

�•
•
•

•
•
•
•

•

•
•

became military policeman afterwards. (1:41:53)
He rode trains from Chicago to Buffalo and back in order to track men. (1:42:16)
Had a lot of free times while he was an MP. (1:42:32)
Spend most of his free time looking for girls, as did most of his friends. One of his
friends had a fake ID he used to buy liquor, and was caught. And jailed for seven
days (1:42:48)
When they were looking for girls, they weren't really looking for sex, just dance
partners and a good time. (1:43:21)
He went to a roller-skating rink, and was told the Aragon ball-room in Northwest
Chicago would be a good place for girls. (1:43:28)
Went to the place, a band was playing. It was a nice place. (1:43:46)
It was a special party at the ball-room, so there were no girls without escorts. He
complained to the girl running the candy corner, and she gave him the phone number
of two of her girlfriends. (1:44:04)
He talked to the girls, and they both showed up. He got to pick which one he danced
with because he'd made the phone call. He picked Ruth, and married her that
September, which was eight months later. She was from Winfield, IL. (1:44:44)
He has three sons, seven grandchildren, and five great grandchildren. (1:45:16)
Three of his brothers were in the service. Two of his brothers married women who
were in the service. His second eldest brother married a woman who had been in the
Women’s Army Corps, and his eldest married an Army nurse. (1:45:32)
• Ruth had three older brothers in the military. His two sisters married
Army men. (1:46:37)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee: Lewis Kelsey

Length of Interview: 01:22:25
Background
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He was born in Reed City, Michigan on March 24, 1923.
He lost the farm when he was 10, during the depression. He would move to a small town
in Eaton County.
His father would rent a farm.
He would go to a small country school. If you heard an airplane, the teacher would take
them all outside to see an airplane.
He would make it through 12th grade in high school. He graduated in 1942.
He was in school when Pearl Harbor happened. He remembers hearing about it the next
day when he went to school.
When he found out about the war, he still wanted to finish school.
There was only one man who enlisted immediately out of high school.
After high school, he was enrolled at a National Youth Administration to learn about
airplane mechanics.
While he was in that school, his instructor was a retired Marine airplane mechanic and he
got Kelsey to join the Marines.
He had heard somewhere that there was going to be a new type of plane coming out and
he really wanted to fly one of them.
Unfortunately, he got the draft notice before he could sign up. He would report to his
physical January 2, 1943.
He was sworn in at the Armory in Kalamazoo.
He was given a choice: go now to Fort Custer or wait a week and go to Camp Grant. He
would take the week to see his sister in Big Rapids and go to Camp Grant on the 9th.
He was there for two day and left in full uniform and dress coat.
From there he was sent to Keesler Field, Mississippi. It was in the 90’s.

Training (5:25)
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It took them 2 days and 2 nights by train.
The only thing that sticks out in his mind about the trip is that one guy had to be taken off
the train and into an ambulance. He never did find out what happened.
He had to walk out to the base.
He thought it was a pretty nice base. There were a lot of B-36 planes there.
He got basic training there. He was doing exercises, marching, and discipline. He
applied for aviation school while he was there.

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When he went through the physical for aviation school, he was disqualified because his
left eye was deemed not good enough. Even though when he had his first physical, he
had almost perfect eyesight.
The man telling him this showed him that because of his left eye, he was left with a blind
spot. He understood, then, but he was still upset that he would be unable to go.
Learning Army discipline wasn’t too hard for him. One time he missed a command and
he had to run three laps around the Army field.
Basic training lasted about 3 months.
He would learn more about Air school when he transferred to Las Vegas, Nevada.

Las Vegas (10:00)
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It was very intensive training there. He had to learn how to take a machine gun apart and
put it back together, blindfolded.
He did an awful lot of shooting. He would first learn how to shoot a 50 caliber gun on
the ground. They would have to shoot it at posts.
The last 4 weeks they went up in airplanes and practices there.
At the end of his training, he was flabbergasted to learn that he was one of the top 10
gunners and was invited to stay at a hotel in Vegas to celebrate.
Las Vegas was not a big town then, but still good size.
That night at the hotel he would meet a couple of actors and a singer. She would not sing
for them that night, but she did sit at the table and eat supper with them.
He was not getting any other training other than gunnery training.
When he was done with gunnery training, he was shipped to Amarillo, Texas, for flight
mechanic school.

Amarillo (13:05)
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He was learning all about the B-17.
He was there almost 6 months. That was a very little amount of time to have to figure out
everything that had to be done to learn about that plane, but he made do.
His main responsibility was to transfer fuel. He would always have to make sure that no
one was smoking.
He would also take care of any problems while in flight.
The fuel was stored in the wings.
He had a lot of weekends off or got an evening pass to go see the city. There were no
overnight passes.
He remembers, they were done with their training, and he had hemorrhaged in the
bowels. He spent 3 days in the hospital.
He liked being there. It was a good town.
His favorite town was Longview, Texas.
He forgot to tell about his story from Keesler to Las Vegas: they went all the way around
the mountain and into Utah. He does not know why they went so much out of the way,
but they did.
After his training and hospital time are done in Texas, he is transferred to Salt Lake City.

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When he was at Salt Lake City, he was assigned to an air crew.
He was only there for a few days.
From there they went to Peyote, Texas.
That was another horrible place.
He would take his combat training there.
He would be transferred to a few more places and finally over the Atlantic. There were
engine troubles along way and a guy in Iceland fixed it for them.
When they went across the Atlantic, it was the entire crew.

Europe (19:30)
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From Iceland he went to Belfast, Northern Ireland for a couple of days.
From there he would get on a boat to go to Scotland and from there, he would take a train
to Snetterton Heath.
He would join the 338th Squadron 96th Bomb Group.
The group would spend 2 years overseas and 200 missions.
While at Snetterton Heath, they would live in Quonset huts, 12 men to a hut. There was
a little coal stove in the thing, though there was not much coal to burn it. He does not
recall even using it.
He remembers his first mission, he went to Mulhouse], France. He remembers seeing the
Swiss Alps.
The plane that he would use for his first mission would get stuck in the mud before he
ever had the chance to actually use it. It would only last 3 or 4 mission, as it would go
down shortly after.
He was with the same crew that he came over with throughout his time in Europe. He
would lose 3 men.
One of those men was born in Mexico City and did not have citizenship. An officer of
the crew would find this out and the guy was pulled from any missions until his
paperwork was completed.
The officer was nice about it and explained what was going on to both the man and the
rest of the crew, as the man was very well liked by all of them there.
Because he was a citizen of Mexico wearing a US Army suit, he could have been
executed for being a spy, legally. It turns out that the man was killed later on in a
firefight, before they completed their mission.
His pilot was from New Orleans. Copilot was a banker in NY. His navigator was a big
honking kid from Memphis, TN. The bombardier was a Jewish boy from Philadelphia.
The top gunner was the oldest and he was from Nashville, TN. The tail gunner was from
Pittsburgh. There were others as well.
Just before he left Texas, he turned 21. He was then one of the “old men” and that would
give them five “old men” and five “kids” on their crew.
His first mission was a milk run into eastern France (27:15)
He bombed something, but he doesn’t remember what. He thinks it was a rail barge.
This was April 1944.
The squadrons would fly as a group. They would fly 3 squadrons as a group and each
squadron would put up 7 airplanes, totaling 21.

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He and his crew were in the 45th Combat Wing. Each squadron would put a wing on so
all the planes would have an equal amount of cover fire.
They would fly the planes close enough to keep the enemy aircraft from going through.
Once in a while, they had an accident where two planes bumped together. Usually you
would lose those planes.
In the 30 missions he flew, he saw enemy aircraft four times, after seeing it one other
time. Two of those four times, there were never any shots fired.
The enemy aircraft did shoot at them. They did take a hit. The hydraulics system once
caught on fire. The bombardier started screaming that they were on fire and to abandon
ship. The big navigator, who was a really calm person, calmed the man down and said
they would take care of the ship. And they did.
The fire was put out, but the hydraulics system was gone, so everything had to be done
manually.
When he was flying these missions, a lot of times he could not see the ground at all. That
was why they had a radar system on the plane. They would not bomb something unless
they did see the target though.
He does recall that on D-Day, they did drop bombs on a railway in a little town.
The bulk of his missions were over France, though some of them were over Germany.
(34:15)
He bombed Paris a couple of times. It was terrible because they had really good antiaircraft fire at the time.
He did bomb Berlin and received anti-aircraft fire there too.
He saw enemy fire four times and they had attack them twice in the thirty missions that
they had.
To get near the ball bearing works or petroleum works, would mean that you would most
likely see enemy fire.
The worst place to attack was the ball bearing plant at Frankfurt. He went there once and
that was enough.
He did other missions rather than bombing missions. One time he went over France and
they dropped supplies to the French underground. They never got above an 800 ft.
altitude that day.
He went there as a group and there was a big open field. They had the three groups that
went and they left a lot of stuff. The French would have had to work real hard in order to
get everything before the Germans got there.
His plane got damaged from ground fire as well. In fact, he got a piece of shrapnel from
the anti-aircraft fire. It was pulled from his headset.
With the way he was standing, he thinks that if he had turned just a bit, the shrapnel
would have gone completely through his earphone instead of catching onto it.
Not one of his air crew were injured.
On an average mission took him about 10 hours.
When he completed his 30 missions that was it for him. While he was there, the
requirement was raised, but they had completed their missions before that had happened.
He only flew a few months. He was there in April and he finished in August. The last
five missions took longer than the first twenty-five did.

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The last five missions took them to Czechoslovakia, twice to Poland, eastern Germany
and another place.
These missions weren’t necessarily more dangerous, just long.
He did fly one mission with another crew, so he did not have to meet that last mission.
After the 25th mission they were supposed to be at a rest home for a week, they were
there 20 days. The psychiatrist would not release one of their men. The oldest man there
was an alcoholic, so they would not let him go back. (40:30)
Eventually, he would get sobered up and was allowed back into the missions. He was
their turret gunner and he was a good shot.
When he wasn’t flying missions, he would do normal exercises and play games. Every
few days they would give you a two-day pass to London.
He would also try to look for his brother. He knew he was in the 8th Fighter Command
Headquarters, working as a cook, but he did not know how to find him.
He was sent down to Operations, they would be able to tell him where he was at.
So he went there and the clerk said that he could help him and it would only take a few
minutes. The clerk disappeared for a couple of minutes and out came a major. The
major told him that there was nothing that he could do for him.
It would take him 30 years to figure out why he couldn’t find anything out. He would
read Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe book and finally figure out where he was.
The reason they could not give him any information was because his brother was in the
same compound that Eisenhower was.
Just a few days later, his brother would come to find him. He told him how to find him in
London.

London (0:43:30)
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His brother was allowed to stay with a 24 hour pass. He would give his brother his own
bunk for the night. At 3am a guy came in to wake him up for a mission. Instead of
waking up Lewis, the man would wake up his brother.
He offered to take his brother on a mission, over England, but his brother would never
fly.
Lewis would eventually get a 48 hour pass to go see his brother in England. When his
brother got off duty they would go to a pub.
They would go to the local dog races several times. His brother’s friend, who was
intimate with the world of gambling on the races, would help them out and tell them
which dogs to bet on.
When they got to the final race the dog they bet on was a scrawny little thing, but he
ended up winning. Lewis’ brother could not believe it.
He would send home $810 that month. (47:40)
He would have luck with cards as well.
While he was in London, he saw the House of Wax there, the Tower of London and he
would see some of the bombed parts of London as well.
While still in London, a buzz bomb had made it through the lines. He heard it quit
running and there was quite an explosion.

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He had to leave the next day, so he did not see the damage done. But he would return
two weeks later to check it out. The place smelled so bad because they had not removed
all the bodies yet. Once you smell that, you never forget.
He and he crew would go in with five other crews, and they would only come out
themselves.
When they first got to the war, they would have fighter protection. As the newer planes
came out, they would be escorted all the way to the target.
The worst anti-aircraft fire mission they went on was Paris. They lost six planes that day.
Most of their planes would be destroyed in anti-aircraft fire. One plane was on fire
everywhere.
He could see the copilot trying to keep the plane under control while the fires were being
put out. It’s a good thing too, or else they may have been taken out that day too. He
doesn’t know if anyone got out of the planes.
There was a time when two planes bumped together. One came down and hit the other.
The bottom plane split in half. The gunner and another man would fall to their death,
from 30,000 ft.
One of the crews had become POW. One man was an escapee, but the rest of his crew
was still prisoners. (56:55)
He remembers when he flew one of their first B-17 flights. He and his crew were
carrying two 2,000lbs bombs.
The bombardier would yell “Bombs Away!” but nothing happened. He was ordered up
there to see if he could do something about it. But they were one ton bombs; there was
nothing he could do.
He would go back to the front and tell them there was nothing he could do. They sent
him back again to see if he could do something.
They eventually decided to land the plane at the farthest runway from the base.
While he was helping the pilot, he did not even notice the plane touch down. If those
bombs had come loose, they would have been blown to smithereens!
It turns out there was a piece of the plane that was corroded a little bit. They had a heck
of a time getting those bombs out of the plane. He did not get involved too much.
It would be a couple of days after he completed his thirty missions when a sergeant came
in and ordered them to pack their bags, clear the field, it was time to go home.
When they got ready to go, he was ordered to put his stuff in a jeep, while the rest of his
crew was ordered to put their stuff in a truck to be taken to the airport.
When he got to where he was going, he was informed that he was under arrest for
absence without leave for five weeks. His captain would come down to try to figure out
what was going on.
After giving the captain the information that was required he would have to stay not only
on base, but he was restricted to the squadron area. The only time he could leave was to
go to the mess hall.
He was there for a couple of days and there was nothing to do. The man in charge told
him that it was going to take a bit to figure out what was going on and asked him if there
was something he would like to do. He wanted to see his brother back in London.
The man was ready to give him a 7 day pass. He would go to London for a week and
when he came back, he found out the man did not put those 7 days on his record yet.

�

That was a great thing, because when he got back to the US, he would come down with
the chickenpox. This would prevent him from reporting to Miami, where he was
supposed to go.

Back to the USA (1:07:45)
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After he got better, he reported to Miami. From there, he was sent back to Amarillo,
Texas.
He was there for a while and then was sent to Kingman, Arizona.
There he was made a physical training instructor. He tried out for the baseball team
there, but did not make it. This would not matter in the end because he was sent to San
Antonio for physical instructor school.
There he learned how to work with the guys coming through and teach them how to use
hand-to-hand combat.
From there, he went back to Kingman, but they were shutting the base down. He was
sent to Laredo, Texas where he would be discharged.

Post Duty (1:10:10)
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He took a bus home to Michigan.
By then the war was over. On his was back on the bus, there was a Marine sergeant
sitting in front of him and in front of the Marine was a woman. The woman was
complaining that the war was over and she wished it had gone on longer because she and
her husband were living so well.
The Marine got so upset that he socked her in the face. There was blood everywhere. At
the next bus stop, the driver had her get off and told her to catch the next bus.
He doesn’t know what kinds of reports went on from there, but he figured there must
have been something. The Marine had broken some of her teeth, but even the bus driver
thought the lady was asking for it.
Once he got back home, he would work for the Kalamazoo paper company for a while.
He would help out with the farm as well, with his brother and his father.
His brother would eventually leave and go to Hopkins.
It would be in 1957 that he would realize that he had enough of farming. The “family
farm” was not the thing anymore. He had bought 120 acres of land to work, but it was
not bringing in the kind of money that it had before.
He would get a job at the Kalamazoo post office in 1963. Working two full-time jobs
was too much for him, so he finally sold the farm.
He would stay in the postal service for 30 years.
The day he was discharged, the psychiatrist there told them that they would never forget
this.
He feels he is a better man after serving in the army.
You don’t think much in the way of “I’m not going to make it”; you often think those
things happen to others, but it can happen to you too.
A single man on his crew was injured during combat, and that was his own fault for
going out the wrong hatch and getting his finger caught.

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The pilot on his crew was a good pilot. (1:15:20)
The man was barely big enough to be a bomber pilot.
His crew would become the lead crew; this would happen via the pilot becoming the lead
pilot.
His squadron commander was sent to his camp to get combat experience. He would
eventually be promoted to Brigadier General.
He remembers when he was marching one time in England, he was a 1937 Buick. He
was paying so much attention to the car, he did not realize there was a general in it,
saluting him.
Jimmy Stewart was actually a good officer. Apparently he was a general.
He did find a way of getting answers from home, by mail quickly. Within a week he got
a letters from his two sisters, his brother, and his mother. He had sent his letter home on
a B-25.

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Kenneth “Ken” Jernstedt
Date of Interview: 02-22-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 1]
FRANK BORING:

What were you doing prior to AVG?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I had gone through Pensacola, Florida as a Navy Cadet, not
actually as a Navy Cadet, Navy flight training as a Marine Corps
trainee, and had joined the First Marine Aircraft Group and 50
years ago today, we were in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on maneuvers
after about 3 or 4 months in the States and about 4 months down
there to be exact. So I think that the fact that I had been in the
Marine Corps was a special good training for me as far as the AVG
was concerned.

FRANK BORING:

When and how did you first hear about the opportunity in China?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well the whole First Marine Aircraft Group had returned to the
States to Quantico, Virginia and just about that time we were
allowed to go home on leave but almost exactly within a week or
two of that, we heard of this man that was going to come through
to interview anybody that met certain qualifications for this
exciting-sounding tour in China. But the drive to go home was so
steep in all of us that the fellows that eventually went out from that
group, went home on leave first. Then we came back after 30 days
at home and by chance had gone down to Norfolk, Virginia on a
cross-country flight, that wasn't very far of course from Quantico
to Norfolk, but to us we were feeling our oats and we met some of

�our ex-buddies that we'd known at Pensacola in the Navy and they
were talking very strongly about joining this AVG. So the 3 or 4 of
us, actually there were 4 at that point that were interested, began to
talk among ourselves and so we inquired and then made an
appointment and flew up to New York to meet the heads of
CAMCO who established the American Volunteer Group and
would front for us out in China and I think it was the 68th floor of
the Chrysler Building. Skip Adair, who I later met out in China,
was the man that interviewed the four of us.
FRANK BORING:

We're going to re-run this same question again on when and how
you heard about the AVG

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well we had returned from the maneuvers that we had been on
down in the Cuban area to the States and had just settled in, we
were all anxious to go home on leave, which we did do. When we
returned we had flown down to Norfolk and heard about a chance
to go to China, which sounded fairly glamorous, from some of the
Navy pilots who were there, that we had known in Pensacola.
There were four of us in this First Marine Fighter Squadron,
stationed at Quantico, Virginia that were very interested in this
particular thing. So we missed the trip that he made through
Quantico, so we took it on ourselves and contacted him and flew
up to New York for a special interview in the 68th floor, I believe
it was, of the Chrysler Building. And it was there that I met for the
first time, Skip Adair, who was one of the officers of the group
later on out in China. It's rather interesting to me at this time in my
life that 3 of the 4 of us signed up. The one fellow that didn't, was
left behind, his choice, because he was an only son of a widowed
lady and he had just met a Powers Model. And if you ever met a
Powers Model you know that's a pretty good reason for staying
home. He was chasing pretty regular up to New York to see her.
So he decided to stay home. The week that we were sitting in Los
Angeles waiting to sail, he was killed in a routine cross-country
flight back in Quantico, Virginia and the 3 of us that went out to
China lived to a fairly ripe old age. One of them did pass away

�about 10 years ago from natural causes and 2 of us are still alive.
So I guess if you're gonna get it, you're gonna get it.
FRANK BORING:

What was your impression of what you were going to find in China
from talking to Skip and talking to the CAMCO people? You said
it was kind of exotic. What was your impression of what you were
going to find there?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well that is a very interesting question as far as I was concerned
and I've often wondered what I thought about it at that time now.
But there was a challenge of travel, there was a challenge of doing
something good for a nation that was obviously in trouble because
there was a lot of propaganda put on by the news services at that
time of the atrocities that the Japanese empire was doing on the
Chinese; pictures of orphans sitting on street corners and wailing
and the results of bombs falling in Shanghai and it was very
effective propaganda. And it was true. So we did feel a real
empathy for the Chinese people. Then we realized that also we
would make more money, that had something to do with it. It was
kind of a glamorous thought. There were 3 of us talking each other
into this too. And when you get 3 young fellows with a certain
amount of spirit, why it's easier to do it in three's than it is by
yourself, if you're going to take on a venture like that. I think that
maybe deep down the fact that there was a rumor going on that we
might be doing submarine patrol duty in the north Atlantic off a
carrier, made us think that maybe we were just about as safe
fighting the Japanese out in China as we were trying to find a
carrier in the fog in the north Atlantic and then land on the blamed
thing, because we had, all 3 of us, checked out in carriers, in two
different airplanes, two different carriers, and until you've done
that a few hundred times, it is not exactly habit-forming. And I
never did exactly like it, I wasn't scared of it, but it's a form of
aviation that I lived without later on.

FRANK BORING:

What were you doing prior to the AVG?

�KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I was finishing about a year's duty with the First Marine
Aircraft Group, stationed in Quantico, Virginia. Just 50 years ago
today, we were in Guantanamo Bay thinking about getting to
return to the States.

FRANK BORING:

When did you first hear about this opportunity in China?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I think that happened just about within 2 or 3 days after we
got back to Quantico and there was a notice on the bulletin board
that a man was going to come through telling about this
opportunity. But we were so anxious to go home on leave, which
we did do, that we passed up that opportunity for the interview. A
little later on, after we came back and were in normal operations
again, we made a cross-country flight down to Norfolk, Virginia
and met some of the Navy pilots that we had known in Pensacola,
that had already had the interview and some of them had actually
signed up and were going to leave the Navy to go out and
supposedly fight the Japanese in China. So this kind of got us
thinking a little more about it. So we made an appointment with
this gentleman in New York City, went up to the 68th floor of the
Chrysler Building and there I met Skip Adair for the first time and
he was the one that interviewed 4 of us for the opportunity to leave
the Marine Corps and go to China.

FRANK BORING:

What had you heard about, in terms of China? What was told to
you and what did you kind of expect?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well we really didn't know what to expect. We each thought we
were pretty well trained. A year of active duty in the Marines on
maneuvers practically the whole time. We thought we were very
well trained. Carrier landings were something I didn't particularly
like and there was one rumor going around that we might go to the
north Atlantic and this was, of course, before the war started. But if
you recall, President Roosevelt was leaning very much toward the
allies in Europe and we were sending Destroyer escorts, etc. and
some of the war materials that were being shipped to Europe. So

�one of the things that we heard was that they were going to use the
aircraft carriers for that purpose and that the Marines might be
doing that. Well I thought that I'd be just as safe out in China
fighting the Japanese as I would be trying to find a carrier in the
fog in the north Atlantic and land on it. Other things we had to
consider was another opportunity to travel. Until I had joined the
Marines, I had not really been out of the State of Oregon and here I
had an opportunity to go halfway around the world and have this
wonderful opportunity. Three fellows together, good friends, we
started out to be four, but one dropped out. The fact that we were
going to make more money, the fact that we were going to be out
there for a year and then we could either continue our military
careers or we could leave the service, that was going to be up to us.
So you take all those things into consideration and three guys, four
guys egging each other on, it was something that came to pass.
FRANK BORING:

What did you know about or hear about China at that period of
your life?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I really didn't know a lot about it. The fact that the Japanese had
started invading the coast of China and had cut it all off entirely
was, of course, the reason the AVG was founded. There were no
seaports and they had to get supplies into China. The pictures that
we'd see in on the newsreels, when we'd go to a moving picture
and see the propaganda how the Japanese were bombing the
civilians of Shanghai and there was a deep-seated feeling, as far as
I was concerned anyway, that there was something wrong going on
there and maybe I could do a little thing to maybe right that wrong.
It was also a certain feeling that it looked like the whole country
was going to go to war. Here was a chance to maybe get a little bit
of practice ahead of time where it wasn't quite as dangerous as it
might be someplace else. The way it worked out, I think I was
wrong in that, it was just as dangerous there as anyplace. But it
was a factor that went through my mind anyway, making up my
mind to go out there. And probably last but not least, I was going
to get another month's leave at home before I had to make the trip

�to China. So it's odd sometimes the things that we do, the reasons
that we do things, I should say, but there were 5 or 6 reasons that
would go into my decision.
FRANK BORING:

Once you made the decision with your buddies to go to China,
what was the procedure of getting out of the American military and
then into this new group?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

That was very interesting looking back on it because we filled out
a letter of resignation from our officer-ship, if you want to call it
that, and that had to go through our Squadron Commander, it had
to go through our Group Commander and then it had to go over to
the Division and then the entire First Marine Corps Group. There
were about four officers from a Major on up to a General that had
to sign that, either approved or disapproved. By the time it reached
the final one, I was talking to a General and he said "well
Lieutenant, you know I can't possibly approve this." And I said
"Well I can understand, Sir, but it's my understanding that once it
gets to Washington, D.C. it will be approved and I guess all I can
ask is, you just sign it one way or another." So it went to
Washington, D.C. and my resignation was approved. We did sign a
statement on that letter of resignation that we would accept
employment upon the acceptance of that resignation, with the
Central Aircraft Manufacturing Co., which was the front for the
group out in China.

FRANK BORING:

Once all the paper work was done and all of the final bits and
pieces were put together, where did you have to go to meet up with
this group that was eventually going to go to China?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well, as I stated, we had about a month at home and then I went to
Los Angeles. We were to report in at the Jonathan Club in Los
Angeles and they put us up there, except Tom Haywood and I
stayed at Charlie Older's home for that week. And we'd go down
once a day and report to the so-called leadership at the Jonathan

�Club, find out that the ship wasn't going to sail for another day or
two and then we'd go see Los Angeles.
FRANK BORING:

What were some of the conversations you guys were having about
that time, about traveling out there? The excitement must have
been building during that period.

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Yes, it really was building. Personally I had said my goodbyes to
Oregon and my parents and my girlfriend and all that so by the
time I hit Los Angeles, most of that trauma was over and waiting
to sail was made a lot easier by the fact that I was living with my
friend, Charlie Older and we, as I say, really got to see Los
Angeles for a week under some very pleasant circumstances. I'll
never forget that week. We did not really meet or get to know any
of the other fellows that were on the same ship until the thing got
started for the Hawaiian Islands. As I recall there was a total of
about 32 or 33, six of us were pilots.

FRANK BORING:

You mentioned that four people originally were going to go on
this, what's the story on that?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well, the fourth person was the son of a widow lady, the only son,
by the way, and he had just met a Powers Model. And being a
young Second Lieutenant, he was doing all right with his
relationship with this nice looking girl, I had met her up in New
York, and he was beating a pretty steady path up there. So the
combination of being an only son and having met a beautiful
young lady, made him decide that the United States was a pretty
good place to follow his immediate career. So the 3 of us that
eventually went then went out to the west coast, Los Angeles and
stayed there for a week and during that week, our friend was killed
in a routine cross-country flight back around Philadelphia, night
flight. I guess this kind of made a fatalist out of me because the
three of us that went out lived to a fairly decent age. I'm still alive,
Charlie Older is still alive, Tom Haywood died of somewhat
natural causes about 10 years ago and I had thousands of flying

�hours and lived dangerously for years and I have done a little of
that and Charlie Older certainly has and the one fellow that played
it safe didn't make it.
FRANK BORING:

You mentioned earlier about your week in L.A. that it was
unforgettable and that it was quite a wonderful time. What was it
that made it so special?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I had the pleasure of staying in the Older home. I had met
Charlie's present wife earlier in my military career, not much
earlier. They were, of course, engaged by this time. I was
introduced to her twin sister. Tom Haywood was introduced to
another likely young lady of Los Angeles. I got to do some private
flying there. I remember going out one time and taking Kitty Older
and her twin sister up in a private airplane on what is now the
International Airport and it was hardly more than a pasture at that
particular time. I remember the movie actor, Bob Taylor being out
there to fly an airplane about the same time and just little
incidences like that. Meeting both the families of Charlie and his
brother and Kitty and her whole family. It was just a fine
experience for a young guy from a farm up in Oregon, being down
in the great big city of Los Angeles.

FRANK BORING:

I'd like to talk a little bit about the ship and the trip over and if you
could touch upon the rather unique occupations you had on your
passports, as I understand, there were a few of those.

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Yes. Well there were six of us that were pilots. Three Marines, two
Navy fellows and one Army, I believe. Then there were about 27
other members that were office staff, automobile mechanics,
airplane mechanics, radio operators, armorers, etc. We had
passports, of course, issued and I thought that I knew something
about accounting, so I went out there as an Accountant, having a
degree in Business Administration. Some of them got a little bit
flippant and had gravediggers on their passport, all employees of
Central Aircraft Manufacturing Co., naturally. We had an

�interesting trip in that we changed ships. We were on three
different ships. Changed ships two more times, once in Surabaya
and the next time in Singapore. The whole trip took us a little over
a month and here again, my chance to travel was certainly fulfilled
because we went to the Hawaiian Islands, we spent 4 or 5 days in
the Philippine Islands, went up to Cavite and saw some of my
Pensacola classmates at Cavite, who later were killed there right
after Pearl Harbor. We then went down to Batavia and ended up in
Surabaya for 3 or 4 days. Then went on to Singapore, stayed there
about a week and then took a train up the Malay Peninsula to a
little town called Kuala Lumpur, which I have seen in the news in
the last few years in connection with the trouble that we've had in
that area of the world, and then took a bus from Kuala Lumpur to a
little out-of-the-way port called Port Swettenham and there we
watched them unload a load of sugar, while we waited for the
chance to sail on up to Rangoon.

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                  <text>Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. &#13;
&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Kenneth “Ken” Jernstedt
Date of Interview: 02-22-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 2]
FRANK BORING:

Once you arrived - you said there was a train and a bus and then
what happened after the bus trip?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

We took a bus from Kuala Lumpur to Port Swettenham and then
got aboard this old tramp steamer and it was really a tramp. They
had actually cleaned out some of the rooms on the stern and no
passengers had been in there for months and years. They had hosed
it all down and some of the fellows had made a left turn and
headed in that direction and for some reason or other I instinctively
turned right and got a more or less a cabin up front near the
Captain. So we ate with the Captain and the one or two other
passengers that were aboard that ship, Charlie Older and myself
and I think Tom Haywood and one of the other pilots, I forget
which one that was, and all the rest ate at the stern end of the ship
with the crew and they didn't have near the living conditions that
we did, and we kind of lorded it over them.

FRANK BORING:

What was your first experience with people from the AVG? I mean
when you finally arrived?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Of course we arrived in Rangoon and there was a fellow by the
name of Noel Bacon that I had known and we were mostly Navy
pilots and so he knew practically all of us, had come down from
Toungoo. I think he was there to pick up a P-40 or something, but
anyway, we had dinner with him in the hotel there that night. He

�told us about living conditions up at Toungoo and I believe we
stayed in the hotel that night and then started up on the train the
next day.
FRANK BORING:

What did you find when you arrived?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well that was a - we had a grand reception because we pulled into
the train depot at night and they actually had a band out to meet us
and I couldn't believe it. Here was music playing and people
yelling and greeting us and really trying to make us feel at home. I
didn't expect anything like that. I don't know whether I've ever had
an arrival like that since either. But anyway, it was kind of old
home week because we were greeted by some of the fellows that
we had known in flying school and they had seen our names on the
roster and it didn't happen often enough, but what they made a
little bit of a ceremony out of our arrival. Then we were put on
busses and taken out to the Toungoo airport where we were going
to train and taken over to the hostel. I've always felt very glad
about the fact that Ole Olson, the Commanding Officer of the
Third Squadron had seen three Marines listed on the list of
incoming pilots and he figured that we would probably want to
stay together, so he talked Colonel Chennault into letting all of us
come to the Third Squadron. That's one thing we wanted to do if at
all possible, was stay together and fortunately, why we were able
to do that.

FRANK BORING:

Now you had an image from not too long before that of this exotic
place called China and you arrived in Toungoo, what did you find?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well, it wasn't as bad as it might sound or as it seemed later. I've
always noticed in my life that whether it was military chow or
college food, when you first get there it doesn't seem very bad. In
fact you wonder why everybody is complaining and then after
you're there a couple or three weeks why you start being one of the
complainers too. So the first few days there, why I didn't see too
much wrong with the food and I didn't have any trouble sleeping in

�that small cot. It was something different and kind of an interesting
experience. Of course I had never seen a climate like that, there
was a little exploring to do on the weekends and in our off hours. It
was jungle you might say, right down to the edge of that little
valley. Tea plantations up on the hill that we could go visit, a
swimming pool out in the jungle that we were at I think the first
Sunday we were there. I won't say that it was an Olympic sized
pool or anything like that, but we could at least get wet and throw a
little water around at each other. The fact that we were flying, of
course, was the main thing and we quickly checked out in the P-40
which was a look-forward to event and getting acquainted with all
the other guys. There was something to do all the time. I had no
problem.
FRANK BORING:

Some of the guys as you know did not have the kind of experience
you did in airplanes. If you could just describe to us your first
experience with the P-40. I know that you said that you felt
comfortable with it, but if you could describe that a little bit for
people who wouldn't know about the P-40?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I had confidence in myself, but I have to admit that there was
a surprise or two before that first flight was over. I've always liked
to fly fighter airplanes because I didn't have to check out with
anybody. I mean they could tell you about it and point out the
instruments which were all very standard, but from then on you
were on your own and they can tell you some of the characteristics
which you can understand as a pilot. But the one thing about the P40, as far as I was concerned, was it was the first in-line engine
that I'd ever flown. Being Navy trained, we were used to the aircooled radial type engines and when I got up in the air and started
maneuvering a little bit I didn't have any problem whatsoever. It
had different characteristics than the Grumman mid wing Wildcat,
but pretty much of a standard type of plane. But when I pulled the
canopy back and cut my throttle for the final landing and that thing
started p-p-p-p at me, why I really got a surprise because here were
these 12 exhaust stacks right there in front of me all banging at

�once and that really kind of surprised me. That was the main
surprise of that entire flight, was the way those exhaust stacks
barked at me as I cut my gun for landing.
FRANK BORING:

When was the first time and if you could describe your first
impression of meeting Claire Chennault?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I believe we met him the next day, went over to the office
and here was this very weather-beaten face with very stern looking
mannerisms about him, but I was really impressed because he was
a military man, quite formal at first. Later on I got to make a few my mind up about a few things concerning him and one or two, I
would say that, well in the first place, he hated to lose. In fact, like
in a game of softball, he pitched for headquarters and the Padre
caught flys occasionally out in center field for him and he would
always get blamed for the fact that headquarters would get beat.
Chennault by this time had reached the age where he was fairly
easy to hit, but he hated to lose and somebody else got blamed for
it. If you were going to play poker with him or cribbage or
anything like that, there would be a time limit set, okay we'll play
till 12 o'clock. Well you quit at 12 o'clock if he was ahead. If he
was behind you kept playing. Sometimes the games drug out. He
hated to lose. He was in good physical shape for a man his age and
he was very proud of that. He was very succinct in his statements
and you always had the feeling that he meant exactly what he said.
He was obviously very knowledgeable about fighter airplanes and
we learned a lot from listening to him talk to us concerning the
characteristics of our own airplane and the Japanese airplanes,
especially the Japanese airplanes. I don't know that he ever flew a
P-40, but he understood its characteristics in comparison to what
we were going to be up against as far as the Japanese were
concerned.

FRANK BORING:

This is something I've always found very interesting is that some
of you guys, especially like with you and Tex Hill was another one
who had a great deal of experience. I think that if somebody had

�gotten up there and tried to give you a lecture that you knew was
not real it wouldn't be the same as the impression you got from
Chennault. So from the very beginning you realized this man knew
what he was talking about.
KEN JERNSTEDT:

Why yes. There was no doubt in my mind that he knew what he
was talking about and I think he was the type of individual that
might give orders sometime for something that for the long-range
pull might not be exactly what you would like to see happen, but
you think about it, you realize the old man would be right and so
you followed the orders. He was a good leader and I think he had
the respect of most of the people that were out there, most of them
that I admired anyway.

FRANK BORING:

The classes that he gave, the teaching that he gave on these tactics
and whatnot. Did you find that they were helpful when you
actually got up in the air against the Japanese? I mean were you
caught by surprise or you pretty much anticipate what you were
going to run into?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well the one thing that he taught that was so different than what I
had learned or had been taught in the Navy, was everything was
three ship in the Navy and you operated in three of threes, etc.
Well, under Chennault we quickly went to two ship and in pairs well three pairs to a group. So it would be three six ship
operations, if you divided 18. If the Navy did it, why you'd have,
we'd have three - I have to think this through, I'm messing this
thing up. But if you had nine ships or a squadron of 18, you would
have six three ships operations. Under Chennault you would have
three six ship operations and those planes, it was much easier to fly
formation in three groups of two and you were better protected
tactically from getting jumped, you used less gasoline, it was just a
lot better operation all the way around, with operating in ABC
three ship rather than the three twos than the old three ship of the
Navy.

�FRANK BORING:

There's also the idea which is somewhat different too of coming up
from behind and using the advantage of the airplane to come down
and back around again. Could you talk about that a little bit?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well the type of airplane that we had, the P-40 of course, did not
climb too fast in comparison to the Japanese and Chennault really
always taught "get the altitude, get the altitude" and if you start out
with an additional 2 or 3 thousand feet on any airplane, why you
can go into a speedy dive and then make that pass and then use that
speed to gain altitude again. If you are starting out on the same
level, you do not have that additional speed and so you quickly
lose the advantage in a dog fight. If you start above them with that
altitude, you have that supra speed that will last you much longer
in the dog fight and be at your advantage. The same thing is true if
you're attacking a group of bombers. I always found it much safer
to come in from above and then you can decide on your way down
just how you're going to formulate your attack. But speed and
altitude was one thing that the P-40, we had to learn to use to our
advantage.

FRANK BORING:

Let's talk a little bit about the days before Pearl Harbor. A lot of
that time was spent training, a lot of that time was spent flying.
Explain to us a little bit about what the routine was like and what
not before you actually got into the battle?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well of course anybody ought to have several hours in an airplane
before he starts using it tactically and that was the first thing we
did was quite a bit of just plain flying by yourself and the 3 of us,
the ex-Marines, worked together and we'd take off roughly at the
same time when we could, a lot of times we'd go out and fly a little
formation and go into the ABC formation if we were just the 3 of
us even flying and we'd chase tails and do mock combat work. I
remember finally after a week or two we had mock combat with
one of our squadron mates who'd been out there awhile and they
were probably much better qualified in the P-40. I went up against
Duke Hedman the first time in dog fighting, he whipped me. But it

�wasn't exactly a whipping, it took him a little while, but he
eventually ended up on my tail and of course that was a good
lesson for me. But Duke was a good pilot and I obviously needed
some more training. There's a lot of formation work that goes into
this type of flying and then there's formations working against each
other and so once in a while we'd have maybe 9 ships attacking 9
ships. That gets to be a real rat race and it's a wonder somebody
wasn't killed in one or two of those out there. But you get to know
the country you're in, you get to know the airplane more and more.
Every hour you put in is to your advantage as far as the first time
or anytime that you're going to go into combat. The better
acquainted you are with the airplane, the better off you're going to
be and so we flew them as much as we possibly could, realizing
that there was a limitation because of supplies, etc. and down time
on any airplane. But the more you could fly, the better off you
were even if you were up there just horsing around with each
other.
FRANK BORING:

During this period of time did you have much interaction with the
crew chiefs, the people who were actually working on your
airplane?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I think we did. Frank Losonsky was my crew chief and I feel very
fortunate that I had him and I think most of the pilots, especially
the Third Squadron, had all the - it may get even broader than that
- we had good mechanics all through the AVG. Some of those
fellows had been in the Army Air Corps for a long time. My
mechanic was really devoted to that airplane and he did a good job
and I take my hat off to him to this day and I know the other pilots
feel the same way. We went over and talked to them a lot of times
when we were not flying and just talked to them about the engine
and some of the things and they'd educate us as to what to do and
what not to do, to keep the thing cooled under certain conditions,
etc. It was a learning process, so you took as much advantage of it
as you could because you knew you'd better learn a few things.
Sure didn't know it all.

�FRANK BORING:

Did you find that that was somewhat unique? Was that different
than your past experience with working with military aircraft? Did
you used to talk to crew chiefs when you were in the Marines or
was this something more unique?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

A little bit more unique but not a lot because there's a certain esprit
de corps in the Marines. If you'd ask an Army pilot that or maybe a
Navy pilot, you'd find a different answer, but I remember in the
fighting squadron I was on with the Marines, my crew chief that I
had, had been in the Marine Corps sixteen years. He had a man
under him that had been in the Marine Corps eleven years and
there was one fellow that had been in there six years that wiped the
airplane down and when you add up that much experience and that
much going into one ship just for one pilot and then compare what
we were doing in China with one crew chief and maybe some
oriental laborer on the side. The experience wasn't there. But then
I'll even go a little further and think about that in connection with
let's say a 4 engine bomber of a B17 and the head chief on that had
maybe been on that maybe 2 years and with 4 engines to take care
of and Lord knows how many guns, etc., it sometimes boggles my
mind to think how lucky we were to have the help that we had,
both as a Marine pilot and the help out in China compared to what
some of these fellows put up with.

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Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
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Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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Christopher, Frank&#13;
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Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Kenneth “Ken” Jernstedt
Date of Interview: 02-22-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 3]
FRANK BORING:

I'd like to get back to the training itself that Chennault was giving
you and the practice runs you were making with your buddies.
How well did that translate to the actual combat that you
eventually ran into?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

That's a fairly hard question to answer because when we finally got
into combat, we were against such enormous odds that, yes you
could go into your formations on your first pass or two, but then
you could quickly get lost. That was my finding anyway. Not that
we didn't use some of the very basics, like keep your altitude…

[BREAK]
FRANK BORING:

The tactical information and the strategic information that
Chennault was teaching and also the practice runs you were doing
with your buddies, how well did that translate into the actual
combat as you ran into it?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well it helped us a lot, especially we knew what to do and expect
from the other fellow that we were flying with or fellows as the
case may be. So many times we were outnumbered to such a
degree that the things that we learned from Colonel Chennault
were absolutely impossible to do because there just weren't enough
of us there. But the basic things like, keep your altitude, remember
the type of ship you're flying versus the type that you were

�attacking, keep your buddy covered as best as possible if you're a
wing man, remember that you have a wing man if you happen to
be a flight leader. Then we'd do this as long as we could but when
you're fighting against great odds, a lot of times this had to go by
the boards pretty fast. You still maintained the basics the best you
could, but many times because of the numbers involved, it was
kind of every man for himself. Now in other cases, there might
have been times, members of the AVG, the numbers were more
equal, the element of surprise wasn't quite as much, maybe the
tactics were a little more efficient all the way through. I think the
same thing would be said about Navy tactics or Army Air Corps
tactics or anything. One of the basic things that any fighter pilot
has to learn is to be the Captain of that ship and meet the
circumstances head-on and those circumstances change fast
sometimes and then do the best you can.
FRANK BORING:

There is one big difference though. In other theaters, using the
traditional method of dog fighting that the military was basically
explaining, the British, even the ones that you were fighting with
in the same skies, their numbers were not even close to the
numbers that you had. Do you attribute a lot of that to Chennault's
tactics?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Basically, yes and the confidence that he built in us and the
familiarity that a lot of us had with the airplane and the knowledge
that we had concerning the advantages that our airplane had over
those that we were up against. If you keep those things in mind,
your enemies weak points and your strong points, and vice versa,
why you'd live a little longer and there was one thing that we
always were taught was don't be a dead hero. It was very important
to keep that piece of equipment flying and it was very important
that you be there the next day if at all possible. Not that people
didn't get shot down, some of us did, but we also knew that we
were serving the group a lot better if you saw that you were
beginning to get the worst in a dog fight, instead of staying in there

�and shooting it out with that guy, just dive out, live to fight another
day. That was one of the key things he taught us.
FRANK BORING:

Let's talk now about the incidents that changed everything and that
was the first time you heard about Pearl Harbor being bombed.
Can you give us your impression? I know you had a lot of friends
that were probably there. Can you tell us your impressions and
your reaction to hearing about Pearl Harbor?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I remember the day very succinctly in that I had the duty that day
and we were on alert. The members of the Third Squadron and at
least one time that day there was a Jing bow, which is the Chinese
word for air raid and we were sent into the air and I think there
were four of us. Japanese airplanes were supposed to have been
sighted. We went up to shoot down Venus, because Venus shines
at that particular latitude in the daytime and somebody saw this
reflection up there, they thought it was an airplane and it was
Venus. At least that's what it was determined to be later because
when we got up high we never found anything except Venus. It
was a jumpy group I can tell you because, of course, we put bullets
in the airplanes, had been in for about a week as I remember, and
everybody was on alert. I remember I got clear to the airport that
day before I learned that Pearl Harbor had happened. It was a
strange feeling because we knew that sooner or later we were
going to war and now we realized that our whole country was
going to go to war. It was a lot of soul searching and thinking to try
to figure out just how that would affect our operation. Whether or
not supplies would be sent up the Burma Road for us to protect and
how long we would be able to keep the Burma Road open if that
was going to be a major consideration of the allied effort to keep it
open. We began to wonder, at least I did at that time, how can we
operate as, you might say, a civilian operation with the whole rest
of the world at war under military operation, how could we expect
our government to send us supplies when there would be other
military services of the regular Army Air Corps and Navy Air

�Corps wanting supplies. So even at a very early stage we began to
wonder just how long we could exist.
FRANK BORING:

Right after Pearl Harbor you were kind of expecting to be fighting
almost any day but actually quite a few days went by. What were
those days like before the actual first encounter?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Pearl Harbor of course was on the 8th out there and right away the
Third Squadron, the rumor started and later the orders came
through that we would go to Rangoon because General Chennault
and the powers that be considered that to be one of the vulnerable
targets for the Japanese and so some of the British were there at
Mingaladon and we were to go down there and aid them in the
defense of Rangoon and the other two squadrons were to go up to
Kunming. Of course there was a certain amount of preparation
necessary for that move. You move that many people and planes
and supplies that far in two different directions, there was a lot of
activity going around Toungoo. I think it was around the 11th or
12th, something like that, before we were able to take off and make
the move to Rangoon. Of course when we got there, it was a case
of familiarization again. Flying the area, getting bearings, getting
used to the operations in connection with the British Airdrome,
having our food supplies, etc., places to sleep for a bunch of
Yankees, getting them used to us. It took some diplomacy on a lot
of people's part and sometimes the diplomacy wasn't so good. But
we had to fly the planes to familiarize ourselves with the territory,
we also realized that we weren't going to get much warning there
because the British did not have in place a very good warning
system. So the realization came that if we get hit here, we're going
to really not have hardly any notice at all.

FRANK BORING:

How much interplay did you actually have with the British? Not
necessarily brass, but other pilots, but if you did have interplay
with brass too?

�KEN JERNSTEDT:

On my level, very little. I was a Flight Leader. We occupied a
different area of the Airdrome. Those things are fairly large and of
course we didn't know anybody over there and on purpose, I
believe. They probably kept us apart as much as possible. I did not
have any real personal contact with the British pilots. I did not
have much respect for their airplanes, but we quickly learned that.
That the Brewster's that they were flying in that area just didn't
compare to anything really except a clunk of machinery. It was a
poor excuse for a fighter plane as far as I was concerned. But there
was a lot to just get used to in a fairly short time. You think two
weeks is a long time but it passes pretty fast.

FRANK BORING:

Especially when you're under the threat of war. Could you tell us
about your first encounter with the enemy?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well that was on December 23rd and we had an air raid warning
go up so I remember there were I think 12 AVG'ers or the Third
Squadron planes on alert that day and Neal Martin and Bob Brouk
and I were one section and I don't remember the make-up of any
others as well as I do that one. Neal Martin was going to be the
leader of that flight, both Brouk and I were Flight Leaders and by
that time maybe 2/3 of us were Flight Leaders in the Third
Squadron, but we took off and went out a ways to gain some
altitude and came back and here our first contact was with a large
formation of 18 twin-engine Japanese bombers. Neal Martin was
considered to be and rightfully so, as far as I was concerned, a
very, very fine pilot. And I'm sure I'm right on this, an All
American basketball player for the University of Arkansas, a great
athlete, a great young man. I was flying on his wing and Bob
Brouk was also back of me in our ABC and we got higher than this
bomber formation and off to the right and Neal dove down and I
never will forget seeing his airplane go through kind of below the
formation and up and sit out right there in front of the bombers,
and all of a sudden the thing turned over on its nose and went
down and he went straight in, was killed. Now no one will ever
know whether he made a tremendous mistake and misjudged his

�dive and pulled up in front, or whether he was shot at and hit as he
more or less went below them. But on the first pass, Neal Martin
was killed and then it was my turn to go down and of course the
heartbeat was a little faster in situations like that and I came in and
attacked on the flank on the right side and made my first pass and
nothing happened as far as any airplane going down is concerned.
About my third pass I had gone down through the formation this
way and I pulled up on the other side and I came back down and
up and got fairly close and unloaded into one of those Mitsubishi
bombers and it just blew up entirely. I continued to attack. I did not
see any more airplanes come down. They turned and left for the
east and I soon landed. There had been a great deal of damage on
the airport. Bombs had hit the runways, missed the bomb hole
when I came in, one was right on the runway. Some of the
buildings had been hit. There was a great deal of excitement
naturally, because quite a few of the fellows had quite a bit of wild
stories and of course I was remembering my own. I had used most
of my ammunition. Hopefully some of those went down before
they got back to the border because I thought I was right on and
you could see the bullets going in them but the things wouldn't
come down except that one really blew up, just caught fire, must
have hit the gas tanks and away she went. But that first flight we
lost two pilots, Neal Martin and Hank Gilbert and of course what
enthusiasm we had for the victories were dimmed considerably by
the fact that we'd lost two good men.
FRANK BORING:

The next few days the Japanese came back. Why don't you tell us a
little bit more about that?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well those were very hectic days. December 24th we were left
alone but everybody was pretty keyed up and December 25th, of
course Christmas, why here they came again and even in larger
numbers. I had a little bit of trouble with my engine at first, the
thing was missing a little bit, but it smoothed out and I had gained
a lot of altitude on account of going on the outskirts and I made
some passes at some bombers and did not have any luck. Then I

�saw two fighters off to the northeast from where I was at that time
and so I headed over in that direction and I headed toward them at
an angle. One of them saw me and came back and we made headon at each other and I got him. I had six guns and it was an I-97
and I don't think they have more - I think they had four on them - I
had fire power advantage and by this time the other fellow left the
area and so I was, as I say, east of the airport considerably, had
used up a lot of gasoline and practically all my ammunition and
had only one fighter to claim, so I went back and landed. We did
not have the damage, as I recall, to the airport that day that we had
the first time. But again, we had two pilots missing. Overend and
McMillan. Pretty soon Overend came back and that night we were
having our dinner, the food………… (smoke alarm went off).

�</text>
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                  <text>Flying Tigers Interviews and Films</text>
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                  <text>Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. &#13;
&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540"&gt;Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections &amp; University Archives</text>
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                  <text>Fei Hu Films&#13;
Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Kenneth “Ken” Jernstedt
Date of Interview: 02-22-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 4]
FRANK BORING:

Some of the maneuvering you had to do in learning about your P40, how did you rate the Japanese pilots as fighters?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

They were very efficient. That may sound like a strange word to
use, but for instance…

FRANK BORING:

When you answer, I'm saying Japanese pilots, but you're not going
to hear that when you see it. So all we need to do is to say "the
Japanese pilots were very efficient" that way we know what you're
talking about.

KEN JERNSTEDT:

The Japanese pilots were very efficient which might be a strange
word to use to describe a military pilot but I use that term because I
remember my friend, Charlie Older, shot down the leader of one of
the formations and quickly another one moved into position. They
were really trained. The airplanes, of course, were a lot different
than ours. The I-97 was a fixed landing gear fighter that couldn't
compare anywhere near to a P-40 regarding speed. But it was very,
very maneuverable so you could not turn with it. The Zero was a
light airplane for the gun power that it had, so it could climb very
efficiently and was also hard for an American to dog fight against
in a P-40. Their bombing formations always impressed me because
they kept formations tight, if anybody was shot down they
maneuvered to quickly replace that one, their gunners knew what
they were doing all the time. I thought they were fairly efficient.

�FRANK BORING:

Before the war there was a lot of propaganda put out about the
Japanese and in fact the military establishment was saying the
Japanese weren't good fighters. Had you heard that before you
went to China? Then you got Chennault telling you that they were
good fighters and then what did you actually find?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I found that the stories that I had heard concerning the Japanese
before I went out there were entirely wrong. They had been
ridiculed by cartoonists and by war correspondents…… (smoke
alarm again).

FRANK BORING:

The Japanese were portrayed in a certain way before you got to
China and then you saw Chennault a little bit more about the
Japanese and then eventually you fought against them in the skies.
What were the differences between those?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

The Japanese pilots we were told before we left the country were
very inefficient, were not well trained, were cross-eyed and all
kinds of things like that so we had an entirely wrong opinion. We
arrived out there and General Chennault told us that they were
good pilots, well trained, and we soon found that out and it was a
rather rude awakening to a certain degree. It's amazing when you
look back 50 years ago that this propaganda was being floated
around, and why anybody would be gullible enough to think that it
was a nation of people preparing for war and their pilots were no
good. It just doesn't make sense in retrospect.

FRANK BORING:

How did you rate the Japanese pilots in terms of their tactics
compared to yours and the ability of your airplane against their
airplane?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I would say the good pilots were equal to our good pilots.
They had a different type of airplane. They knew the advantages
they had over us, just like we knew the advantages we had over
them. They were on offensive missions, we were on defensive

�missions. So our goals were different. We operated toward
different goals, which in war time becomes very apparent and hard
to really just determine who is the better because of the different
types of goals. I think they knew their airplanes, they knew their
capabilities and had lots of hours, many of them.
FRANK BORING:

You had mentioned earlier you wanted to say something further
about your crew chief

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Looking back I have to grin about my crew chief, Frank Losonsky
because the first time I was in combat, he seemed to be very
delighted that he found, I think it was, ten bullet holes in my
airplane when I came back. That didn't make me feel too good at
all, but he was very pleased and it gave him a little bit of oneupmanship among the other crew chiefs. By gosh, his pilot got shot
at and here's proof, here are ten bullet holes in Number 88. I didn't
feel good about them at all, but he liked them.

FRANK BORING:

Later on, on March 21st there was apparently a revenge attack by
the Japanese at Magwe and the bombings began, Parker DuPouy
was leading a flight of six P-40's to Magwe. There apparently was
an incident that happened to you involving Japanese bombers or
somebody shooting at you and the glass just exploding in your
cockpit and all that. Do you recall that particular incident?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I recall those few days in March very well because it was two days
before that, that Bill Reed and I had gone on a mission of search
and so forth, down into the southern part of Burma east of
Rangoon to a little airport called Moulmein and we'd done a pretty
good job of destruction down there. In fact General Chennault sent
us a telegram saying "Congratulations. You have set a new record
of world destruction." I don't know now whether that sounds so
good or not, but at the time, it was all right. The fact that we had
been thoroughly successful, I think irritated them to a certain
degree and maybe all we did was postpone what happened on the
21st a day or so. On that particular day, we were caught on the

�ground at Magwe and when I finally got to my airplane and got it
off, the bombs were dropping at the end of the runway and how I
got there I still consider myself pretty lucky and I went out and
gained some altitude and started chasing this bomber group and
they were headed back to I believe as far away as Hanoi. It was
that general direction anyway and I made passes at the formation
and had been successful in getting two of them down and like a
darn fool I had put my goggles up on my forehead because of
peripheral vision, it was much better with the goggles off and there
was no wind stream in the cockpit, but as I was making a pass at
one of these bombers, a bullet hit my windshield right in front of
my face and the bullet went into the armor plating right back of my
neck. I figure it missed my head by about a 1/2 inch and this glass
just exploded into my face and some of it went into my left eye.
Well I immediately called that battle off and headed home and I
was a very fortunate AVG'er at that point in time, because I
couldn't see too well, had one eye left, but I was getting low on
gasoline, I hoped I knew the direct route to Magwe and fortunately
I had just reversed my compass heading 180 degrees and hit it right
on the button and landed on the Magwe airport after it had really
been pounded. I missed a crater on the runway in my landing and
ended up, immediately went to sick bay and Doc Richards dug
glass out of my eye and eventually the next day - well two or three
things were very unfortunate about that - we had a ground crew
chief by the name of John Fauth that was killed and another pilot
that had been on one side in one trench that wasn't quite so deep
and he thought he'd be safer over on the other side of the runway
and he got up and ran and a bomb hit and it caught him in his neck
and on his hand and he was in pretty bad shape. I spent about half
the night sitting with him and then the next day they flew me back
up to Kunming for some so-called R&amp;R in the old Lockheed or
was it Beechcraft, I forget right now. But anyway, John Hennessy
was the pilot and I stayed in Kunming for about 5 or 6 days and
then rejoined the group. Some write-ups have said that I had my
windshield shot out as I landed at Magwe, but that's entirely

�wrong. I lost my windshield about 200 miles east of there when I
was fighting against the bombers.
FRANK BORING:

Talk about the raid before all of this happened.

KEN JERNSTEDT:

On March 19th. Well the squadron had been operating in Magwe
for several days and Bill Reed and I talked to Ole Olson and said
we wondered what the Japanese were doing down south as they
approached Rangoon as far as airplanes and troop movements, etc.
were concerned and so …(smoke alarm)

FRANK BORING:

On March 19th Bill Reed and you took off from [?] to attack a
Japanese airfield 10 miles from Moulmein, can you tell us about
that?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

By March 19th the AVG had more or less retreated up the Burma
Road as far as Magwe and we were operating the Third Squadron
with some of the members of a couple of the other squadrons out
of that particular airport for several days and Reed and I were
talking to Ole Olson, our Commanding Officer, and we began to
wonder about what the Japanese were doing down in the Rangoon
area and east of there. So we cooked up the idea of going down on
a reconnaissance mission. So he and I took off the evening of the
18th and stopped at Toungoo, re-gassed our airplanes and went to
bed there in our old shack that we had lived in in our training days
earlier. We got up real early in the morning - I'll never forget that
particular take-off because of the circumstances - it was still dark
about 5 o'clock and there were no lights on the airfield at all and a
single strip, but it just so happens that in that particular latitude, the
north star was sitting right on the horizon, right down the end of
the runway for me, so when I hit the throttle on the P-40, I just
concentrated entirely on the north star as a guiding light and took
off and when I felt we had flying speed we took off and went into
the air. So that's the first time I had ever done that. We went in the
general direction of Rangoon, we were up at about 20 - 22
thousand feet, and then went in on the south side of Moulmein and

�began to lose altitude and were going to come in over it for a quick
look-see at what might be in that area. We spotted an auxiliary
field about 5 to 10 miles away - it's kind of hard to remember
distances exactly in this point in time - and here were at least 60
airplanes lined up on this auxiliary airport, wing tip to wing tip in
two lines on opposite sides and we just had a heyday going up and
down those two lines. He was going one way and I was going the
other and just raising all kinds of havoc, setting airplanes on fire
and I remember looking over to the side road and seeing a
truckload of Japanese arriving on the scene. They must have been
arriving to make an early morning take-off, because by this time it
was I would say around 7 something and the sun was well up, but
not too far in the sky and they just parked and watched all this
havoc being raised with their airplanes. So then we finished there
getting a little low on ammunition and headed over toward
Moulmein. By that time there was activity going on because they
evidently knew that we were in the area and we started strafing
there. We got one just about the time he started to swing into
position to take off, we got another - I had a kind of a trial bomb
that Charlie Baisden had rigged up for me to put in the fur pocket
on my wing. It was a homemade bomb and it was more to set fires
with than anything else and I set a dandy, because there was a
transport plane gassing up over near a hangar and I hit it in a
vicinity to catch that whole area on fire and caught that one on fire
and we made about one more pass after that and got the heck out of
there because we had no more ammunition and more planes were
beginning to warm up to taxi out, so we headed, and I have never
understood quite why the Japanese didn't follow us because if
they'd thought the thing through, they would have known that we
were going to have to stop in Toungoo, which we did, and gassed
up. I can't remember the name of the U.S. General there, but they
interviewed us at some time for what we had seen. Of course all
we could report on was airplanes. They were more interested in
ground troops but we couldn't give them too much information and
we stayed an extra 15 or 20 minutes talking to those guys and I
was getting kind of antsy and so was Bill because we were

�expecting to get our airplanes strafed out there at any time. Pretty
soon we took off and went back to Magwe and landed and never
saw any more until the two days later when that big raid hit us on
the 21st.
FRANK BORING:

What did Chennault have to say about all of this?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well he sent the telegram to us congratulating us on the great
record of destruction that we had set - a new record of world
destruction. Something that kind of pleased me. I read the wording
of that in the group diary not too long ago. I happened to have a
copy of that and found it and it made me feel kind of good.

FRANK BORING:

There was a [?] when they shot the glass, the bomber I guess that
shot at you and got all in your eyes. Could you repeat that story
again please?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

You want that whole thing repeated?

FRANK BORING:

We don't know if we got it

KEN JERNSTEDT:

This really had the Japanese upset. I knew they were going to hit
us anyway but on the 21st of March, two days after our raid, they
hit Magwe and they caught us on the ground - absolutely cold. I
was able to get to my airplane and get it into the air just barely
about the time the first bombs were beginning to hit the airport.
The chances of immediate dog fight was absolutely not there, so I
gained altitude and then chased a bomber formation as it headed
home. There were about 18 ships as I remember in that formation
and I was the only one, which was a little bit foolhardy, but I kept
nicking at them and I got two of them down and then on the one I
was working on either he got me or one of his wing men got me
with a shot that hit the windshield right in front of my face and I
like a fool had my goggles off my eyes and on my forehead
because, in a dog fight the goggles didn't give you the peripheral
vision that you sometimes need. This wasn't really a dog fight but I

�still wanted my peripheral vision and that glass exploded and some
of it hit my eye and my face and I thought "oh my gosh, I'm dead"
and I dove out and then realized I wasn't dead, so pulled it out and
headed toward Magwe, which was about 200 miles. It took me
quite a while to get there and landed with very, very little gasoline
left and a navigational feat that was just plain luck. Because all I'd
done was reverse what I remembered my compass heading to be as
I was going with those bombers and I hit it right on the head,
landed to see a great deal of turmoil. John Fauth, one of our crew
chiefs had received a wound from a bomb. He died that night.
Frank Swartz, another pilot, had jumped from one trench to
another and as he was running, a bomb went off near him and hit
his face and his hand. He died in Poona, India about a month later
from an infection that had set in as a result of the wound. I had
stayed up with him until about midnight that night and then the
next morning they shipped me in the Lockheed up to Kunming for
some R&amp;R. I stayed up there for about 5 days and then John
Hennessy flew me back down to Magwe where I joined the
squadron again. That was at a time that we were gradually
beginning to retreat out of northern Burma. We went into a place
called Loiwing, operated out of there for several days. That was
the headquarters for CAMCO, Central Aircraft Manufacturing Co.,
where they had the actual structure of a factory that was going to
begin to build CW21's for the Chinese. But they never got any
built because the Japanese took that area over.

�</text>
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&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                  <text>Fei Hu Films&#13;
Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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              <elementTextContainer>
                <elementText elementTextId="128384">
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                <text>Ken Jernstedtneth A.</text>
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                <text>Ken Jernstedt interview (video and transcript, 4 of 6), 1991</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Kenneth “Ken” Jernstedt
Date of Interview: 02-22-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 5]
FRANK BORING:

If you can tell us about the incident in which Third Squadron
escorted some Russian bombers?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

When we left Burma and went back up into Toungoo to operate
out of there for the rest of the life of the AVG, we had quite a bit of
work to do around Toungoo. We were on night alert. We made
some trips to different areas. We did daytime alert in case we got
bombed. We escorted Generalissimo and Madame around in a DC3 on a tour of northern Burma and southern China. But one
mission that I'll never forget was one that we were sent on to escort
the Chinese bombing of Hanoi. There were some old Russian
bombers that the Chinese Air Force had and I do not remember
their name. They were a twin-engine, fairly high wing, monoplane
type, older than the hills. We got into the air - as a fighter squadron
we had to stop at a base in the south of Kunming - I can't think of
the name of that place right now - for gas and then climb back up
and escort them the rest of the way to Hanoi. Those things were so
slow that we had to throttle as far back as we could in the P-40 at
that particular altitude, I think it was around 18 or 20 thousand
feet, and make circles above them or we'd stall out. They were
going so much slower than the slowest speed of the P-40 that we
had to use up our gas in circling just to escort those dudes. We got
to Hanoi finally and they dropped them into an overcast. I never
did know whether we did any damage or not and I don't know that
anybody does. But we had to come all the way back and this time

�we tried to make it straight to Kunming without refueling and
some of the fellows, I think 2 or 3, ran out of gasoline taxiing back
to park and I had enough maybe for ten more minutes of flying at
the most. It was a very close and maybe a hopeless mission but I'll
never forget that bombing of Hanoi by the Chinese with Russian
bombers.
FRANK BORING:

As you got closer and closer to your contract running out, what
was the attitude of the Third Squadron about it? What were you
thinking about in terms of wanting to go home, were you wanting
to stay?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

A lot of us had mixed feelings. We felt in some ways duty bound
to stay. We also felt duty bound for our own good to go home.
We'd been out there under pressure for several months and we did
not know for sure just exactly what we wanted to do. I had Marine
Corps leanings. I was offered a Majority out there. The Army
made a very fair offer to me. My goodness, I left the Marines as a
Second Lieutenant and here less than a year later I was going to be
offered a Major's Commission, which was fair. Tactics began to be
used that some of us didn't like. General Bissell came in and we
had a group meeting. He stood up in front of the group and more or
less threatened us and said "why if you don't go in, you'll be
drafted when you go home." I sat there thinking about the draft
board in Yam Hill County* in Oregon and thought well that would
be awful stupid if those guys are going to draft me and I really
didn't think they would, but it was something to think about, I'll
have to admit. But also personally about that time I had some
trouble. I had a series of boils and what the Chinese doctor and
Doc Richards said was heel diarrhea and I had diarrhea, I'll tell you
that for sure and I was off of flying status. So that made me all the
more anxious to go home. I was down to about 145 pounds and I
though Jernstedt, for your own good you've got to get back to the
States. Well my good friend, Charlie Older, as luck would have it,
had an appendicitis attack at that same time and he was operated
on for that problem, had his appendix removed, and we both began

�to feel a little bit better. As July 4th came upon us we went to the
old man, excuse me, Colonel Chennault - General Chennault, he
was by that time - and said, "General, everybody's going to be
trying to get out of here on July 4th and how about, we're off of
flying status, we haven't been on for two weeks, how about letting
us have a week's head start and leave if we can?" He said "Fine,
you guys have it coming." So he signed the papers and Charlie and
I left a week earlier than mainstream. Some had left a little bit
before. We flew the hump, got a ride on a DC-3 Army plane and
went into the airport - I've forgotten the name again - on the far
eastern part of India and then went into New Delhi. We holed up
there for a week trying to get a ride on to Karachi, and finally we
hitchhiked a ride to Karachi. We had just about given up hope for
any chance of flying the rest of the way, when a pilot from - well
he was a chief test pilot for Pan Am Africa - came into Karachi and
Charlie and this fellow recognized each other. They had met when
Charlie was on one of the first ferry hops that anybody made, when
they had gone clear to the west coast of Africa to pick up some P40's early in the game. Charlie and Tom and McMillan and R.T.
Smith and Paul Green and Link Laughlin. I had missed that flight
because I was a Flight Leader and General Chennault said you
have too many Flight Leaders, so our names went in a hat and
mine came out and Link Laughlin took my place, he was a wing
man at that time so I didn't get to go on that one. Which was good
in the long run because I would have missed a lot of action that I
saw later on. But this test pilot was a great guy and he said "What's
the matter?" and we said we can't get out of here - "why not" - well
we can't get any priority and we can't get any passenger room on
any flight. He says "well I'll fix that" - well how? He says "You'll
be prospective employees - that will be the priority." By that time
there were about 18 or 19 of us piled up there including our female
nurse, Emma, what was her last name, can't think of it right now but anyway he wrote out a ticket, I found that thing the other day
on Pan Am Africa for all of us, each one of us and we went clear
across the Persian Gulf, where they're now fighting, gassed up
awfully close to - I wonder what point of that we did pick up our

�gasoline. Crossed into southern Egypt and then over to Accra*,
Africa. Stayed there about 3 days and then caught a ride on a B-24.
By that time 4 pilots were together and I really don't remember
what happened to the rest of them, but 4 of us split up on 3 B-24's
that were flying crude rubber from Africa back to the States. John
Farrell and I flew together, we flipped to see who was going to
have company and each one of the other fellows got in the other
planes and we headed across the South Atlantic and landed in
Brazil, made another stop at the mouth of the Amazon, went on up
to one of the other islands - I forget the name right now - and went
in at West Palm Beach, Florida and crawled off the B-24 and
started home on a train. But we kind of proved that General Bissell
was wrong. I went home and the first thing I did was register for
the draft and they gave me a discharge Veteran's rating. So I could
have quit the war, I could have gone into farming, I could have
gone into business, I could have done anything. But I recovered
from malaria eventually - it took me about 6 weeks - I caught that
on my way home, and had a real battle with it for a while until they
discovered for sure what I had. Then Republic Aviation contacted
me and they were looking for test pilots that had combat
experience and there weren't too many of those flying around in
those days that were available. So Parker DuPouy, one of my good
Army friends from out in the Third Squadron was already
established back there, he urged me to join him, so I went back
there and looked the situation over and ended up as an
experimental test pilot the rest of the war.
FRANK BORING:

Looking back on that time now, the period of AVG, what do you
feel was your own personal accomplishment about that time?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I think I could tell a little story to kind of prove my point I think.
While we had a good record out there, most of the members of the
AVG did and I was very proud of that military record. But in
retrospect there's no doubt that the main contribution of that group
to the United States was the fact that we were morale boosters and
I proved my story or my point by telling the story of the time that

�Madame Chiang Kai-shek came to this country to give an address
to the people of the United States from Madison Square Garden,
national radio hook-up, no TV in those days. The Flying Tigers
that were in the New York area, there were two groups of us, one
testing at Republic, there were about 4 of us, and another group in
the northern part of the island that were flying for American
Express, Bob Neale and Bus Keeton, Bob Layher and Hennessy I
believe was there and several others. We were called into New
York to act as her escort as she came on the stage in Madison
Square and this was a real political shindig because there were six
governors on the stage, Wendell Willkie was on the stage, the
British Ambassador was on the stage and innumerable numbers of
people. We were all congregated off stage waiting for the Madame
to come and this formidable group would arrive singly and in
doubles and here came Hap Arnold, Commanding General of the
United States Air Force, back where we were standing and we
were all in our old AVG uniforms, and for some reason or other, I
must have been closest because he kind of came up and patted me
on the shoulder and said "when am I gonna get you fellows back?"
I kind of looked at him and grinned and said "well General, in the
first place you never had me, because I was a Marine, and you're
not gonna get me." He kind of looked at me and laughed and then
he said "well what are you doing?" and I said "well I'm an
experimental test pilot out on Long Island on the P47 Thunderbird
built by Republic." He gave me a pat on the back and he said
"you're doing your part." Which I kind of agreed with because we
actually lost a higher percentage of pilots in test flying than we did
in the AVG, by losing I mean from death and he paused a minute
and he said "you know you guys were pretty good and the records
speak for themselves, you had a wonderful record out there. But I
don't know whether you ever stopped to think that your main
contribution to this country was the fact that you were a morale
booster for this nation when we really needed one that would make
us see some good ahead. Every place else we were getting kicked,
in the Philippines, Australia, all over the world, in the European
theater, there was no good news, except that little group of you

�fellows out there and your main contribution is not the number of
planes you shot down, it was the job you did as a morale booster
group."
FRANK BORING:

You got pretty close to some of the guys there during the AVG. I
realize it's very personal, but what would you say, what death
affected you the most?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

What death? While we were out there? Well the death that affected
me the most while I was a member of the AVG, was the one when
Tom Jones was killed practicing dive bombing over Kunming
Lake. Now I say that because our careers went along together for
so many months. He was in the same elimination class that I was in
in Seattle, Washington where they were bringing ten a month from
five western states for training at Pensacola. And five of us made
that and we went to Pensacola together and he was in the same
class that I was there. I did not realize that he had signed up for the
AVG until I got out there and there Tom Jones was again and we
had been very good friends at Pensacola, saw quite a bit of each
other and then out there we continued to be very friendly. I had
met his folks up in Seattle, his mother and one of his sisters, I
probably knew him better than most of the members, except Tom
and Charlie Haywood that I had been with in the Marines. But as
far as death is concerned, that was the biggest shocker to me was
when he was killed trying to simulate dive bombing over Kunming
Lake.

FRANK BORING:

You had mentioned before your two weeks that you spent in Los
Angeles before you went to China - excuse me one week - you had
talked to your parents and basically had seen the people around
there - did you tell your parents where you were going? Did you
say you were going to China? Or what did you tell them?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I as a young man I had always had the support of my parents
in nearly everything I had done. I don't know that they always
thought that I had all my brains about me some of the times. I

�remember when I came home from elimination days up in Seattle
and I didn't say anything when I hit the porch and pretty soon Mom
said "well how did you do?" And I said "well I passed." And she
stomped her foot and said "Oh I knew you would." She was kind
of half disgusted, but still proud of me. When I got my wings she
was still proud of me, I know from what I've been told. So when I
made up my mind I was going to go out to China on this thing, I
have to admit that I told her a white lie. In a way, I told her that I
was going out there to instruct. Well I think I got more involved
than instructing and I never did discuss that white lie with them
after I came back and I think, I hope - maybe they just thought that
well instructing led into fighting because those boys were out there
so they might as well make use of them.
FRANK BORING:

Did you ever get a chance to meet Generalissimo Chiang Kaishek?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Yes, several times.

FRANK BORING:

What was your impression of him?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I liked the Generalissimo. He was very quiet, he was very aloof.
He had a tremendous responsibility if you stop to think about it.
Here he was the chief honcho of 400 something million people
scattered over an area larger than the United States, three separate
dialects, no real good means of transportation between the different
areas except some beat up airplanes, no roads, no railroads to
speak of and trying to carry on a war. I really felt sorry for him. I
think he understood more English than he put on. I remember how
- let's use the word nervous our Dentist, Dr. Bruce was - when the
Generalissimo came into Kunming one day and wanted his teeth
worked on and a couple of bodyguards stood by while this went on
and Doc Bruce had quite a time. The one story I really like about
the Generalissimo and the Madame, one day a plane came in - the
DC-3 that they usually flew around in at Kunming - and some of
the fellows met him at the airport and just by chance and they

�didn't know who was on it and here came Madame Chiang Kaishek, who in her day and still is a beautiful woman, but when she
was younger she was even more beautiful. But their secretary, who
was also a very charming and beautiful Chinese girl and a couple
of the pilots, I won't go into names, picked them up in a station
wagon and they were anxious to use the plumbing facilities of one
of the hostels and so the fellows were going to take them over to
the hostel where they lived, Hostel #1, and as the station wagon
started to leave the airport, the Generalissimo was standing there
kind of looking at things and one of them said to the ladies "wasn't
that gentleman on the plane with you, should we pick him up?" and
Madame said "Oh no, let him walk." And they took the two ladies
to the compound and when all the Chinese help around there
started bowing and scraping they began to wonder just who they
had and I think by that time they were beginning to realize that
there was the possibility that it was the Madame and it was. But it
always tickled me that she said "no let him walk."

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&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
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Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                  <text>Fei Hu Films&#13;
Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Ken Jernstedt interview (video and transcript, 5 of 6), 1991</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Kenneth “Ken” Jernstedt
Date of Interview: 02-22-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 6]
FRANK BORING:

The Madame next did you want to…? Let him finish what he was
saying about Chiang Kai-shek.

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well I don't know, there's a lot more to say about that. I spoke of it
earlier in my little dissertation about escorting the Madame and the
General around in southern China and northern Burma. I think
there were six of us assigned that duty and it was an interesting
experience because they wanted us to ward off any Japanese that
might have known that they were in the territory - you never know
those things - and we would land and they would go in and attend
to their business, wherever they were and we'd stay out at the
airplane. Once or twice we had lunch with them, ate the same cold
sandwiches etc. that they had aboard the plane. He was always
very quiet. She was rather more of an extrovert compared with him
and you didn't have personal conversations with him, but you
could tell that he seemed like a man with a lot of weight on his
shoulders and he had the respect of the people that surrounded him.
They also threw a banquet for us up at Kunming one night. You'd
have to call it a State Dinner because he had practically the whole
Chinese cabinet there, the Madame and the Generalissimo, and
they threw a very nice dinner for us. They each gave a speech.
General Chennault responded. I often wished I had a copy of those
speeches or had privy to them and oddly enough, I have a book
that somebody saw at a book sale for ten cents and it was all the
speeches - several speeches - that the Generalissimo had made and

�in that book were the three speeches that I wanted. One of General
Chennault, the Madame's and the Generalissimo, and I have all
three of those that we heard that night.
FRANK BORING:

What was your impression of Madame Chiang Kai-shek?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Well she was a very delightful person and she called us her - what
was her pet name for us? - Her "Little Angels" or words to that
effect, her American Angels. She was always kind of half chiding
us and she did this night - "remember, boys, you are Americans
and you're setting a reputation here and I'm kind of staking my
reputation, so be good, you guys" and most of us were most of the
time. But of course you can't keep that many Americans
completely on the line. But she was a beautiful woman, she was
educated in this country, she gave a wonderful speech back in
Madison Square Garden that night. I should not tell tales on some
of my past friends, but - they're still my friends although they are
gone - but I sat right behind Pappy Paxton and admittedly several
of the fellows including myself - I had a drink I believe before I
went on the stage, but some of them had more than that, and Pappy
wasn't exactly feeling too much pain, but she would start to speak
and pretty soon he said in this loud voice that we could hear on
stage anyway - "this speech is way above the heads of this
audience". Of course I kind of flinched a little bit and pretty soon and here was the British Ambassador sitting just one over from the
seat in front of him - and she made a remark about imperialism.
"That's a crack at the blinkety-blank British". Anyway it didn't
bother the Madame and we had a great deal, I think, of affection
for her as a person. I'd like to see her again. We were out there in
1963, they threw a big banquet for us in Taipei and were
entertained by the Madame and the Generalissimo and they stood
in the receiving line and shook each one of our hands, etc. I have a
warm feeling for them, especially her.

FRANK BORING:

What do you think the effect of the AVG was on the Chinese
people?

�KEN JERNSTEDT:

Oh that is extremely hard to measure. I had the privilege - I've
been out to Taipei twice and I've been out to the mainland China
once since that time. I think for two reasons, one I was in politics
to a very small degree in Oregon, the State Senator, and I'd been a
member of the AVG. We had been invited to Taiwan. I'd been
there both as a State Senator and as a member of the AVG and
when anybody there finds out that I was a Flying Tiger, why
there's no limit to their show of gratitude. Even at this time, it's
amazing to me. On mainland China, the same thing exists to quite
a degree. When I was told that - see I had to pay my way and my
wife's way to Peking - Beijing excuse me - and then we were to be
their guests for two weeks and we could go anyplace in China that
we wanted to go. I said I know that I want to visit Kunming. "Ah
yes, Flying Tigers" and the older people of China still remember us
and it's a good feeling.

FRANK BORING:

Given the battles you had to fight and all that, what do you think of
the Japanese today?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

I have nothing but respect for the Japanese and I feel no animosity
for them, either as a nation or individually. I certainly respect the
Japanese as a nation and as individuals. I happen to live in area in
Oregon that has a lot of descendants of Japanese people and I
know them to be industrious, smart, hardworking people. Those
that have been in this country are extremely good citizens. They're
playing a very important part in world economy today and I think
that bygones are bygones as far as the war is concerned. They were
very quickly with me when I returned to the States. We were
fighting those Japanese over there, not the ones in this country at
the time. I know that's the people that you're referring to when you
questioned me, but I wish that some of the younger people in Japan
could realize really what this country did for them.

FRANK BORING:

Towards the end of the AVG there was a lot of talk about the
morale missions that you were supposed to be flying and basically

�just to keep the enemy - the enemy was out of the sky anyway and
you were under a great deal of danger from ground forces. Did you
ever find that you were disgruntled or did you find that the tactics
that were being asked of you were unfair or anything like that?
KEN JERNSTEDT:

No I didn't think so, personally, because I had already gone
through my share of, you might say, sticking my neck out on that
kind of raid and some of them that were accomplished later, might
have been stretching the point a little bit. But you also have to
remember that those that made those missions volunteered to go on
them. So it works both ways when you start discussing something
like that. I know that when we were getting down to the last days,
when were no longer going to be the American Volunteer Group,
the U.S. Army was going to take over, it gives you a strange
feeling when you really realize that this was approaching the end.
But it was one of those things that you looked back on with kind of
wonderment and admiration for some of the volunteers and that
was shown at that particular time. When one or two get disgruntled
it's sometimes easy to spread that feeling among others, and there
was a certain amount of that, but I wasn't very close to it.

FRANK BORING:

You accomplished a number of things in your life. You're in your
70's now and AVG was only a part of that. You became a State
Senator and you were involved in other things. Where do you place
the AVG in terms of your own personal evaluation of your life?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

Very high. I place the evaluation of the AVG in relationship to my
life in a very high position because it has helped me in other ways.
In politics, for instance, a lot of it is PR. People will say "Hey that
Senator so and so, you know he was with the AVG" and the words
Flying Tigers has been something that I like to have attached to my
name in nearly any walk of life that I've tried to walk down. It's
still with me and oddly enough, and I think logically enough, this
year and the next year, which will be the 50th anniversary of our
beginning and the 50th year of our breakup, it is rekindling a lot of
memories and a lot of interest in us as a group. Of course we're

�getting to be old fuddy-duds now, but it’s fun and I place it very
high. It broadened my experiences, it showed me what I can do
under fire and maybe some of the things I couldn't do under fire. It
made friends for me that I've kept all my life and some of them
that are extremely meaningful to me. So it's a lot better deal than
some college relationships or business relationships or something
like that, that's a very small group of men and a couple of women
have in common that no other people have ever gone through. I
just can't help but rank it very high in my experiences of life.
FRANK BORING:

Well I'll tell you something Ken, if I ever get to the age of in my
70's I'd like to be a fuddy-duddy too. You mentioned that the
Chinese have reacted both in Communist China and also
nationalist China about the Flying Tigers and they treated you very
well. Why do you think that is?

KEN JERNSTEDT:

This feeling that I get from both the Nationalists on Taiwan and the
People's Republic of China is really kind of interesting because
they both call and consider themselves Chinese and there are
people in both groups that have of course, a background that very
few Americans and I don't understand completely. Their origins go
way back in history. There's one small group of them living in
Taiwan that had the same roots that the larger nation had in a
larger area. So they have those things in common. At one time they
had us in common. Part of them are over here in Taiwan now, a lot
of them are over on the mainland. But we did fight for them all at
one time in their lives and ours. So I think it's very natural for them
to recognize this fact, that they do have us in common, that we
were fighting for the Chinese, no matter where they were living.

�</text>
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                  <text>Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. &#13;
&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Ken Jernstedtneth A.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540"&gt;Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183).&#13;
&#13;
Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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                  <text>&lt;a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D"&gt;Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Gilbert, Douglas R.</text>
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                <text>Black and white photograph of a snow-covered Kendall Cache storefront, located at the Tiekel Lodge at Mile 56 of the Richardson Highway, near the Tiekel River on the outskirts of Valdez, Alaska. In the photograph, the log building is nestled in the snow and a pair of snowshoes are waiting outside the front entrance. Advertisement signs for groceries, fishing supplies, gifts, souvenirs, and a cafe are featured on the exterior. Scanned from the negative.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783"&gt;Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam
John Kendall
Total Time – (27:40)

Background
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He was born on March 6
He achieved the E-4 [E-6?] rank, Staff Sergeant (00:56)
He had two brothers while growing up
o Grew up in Detroit, Michigan
He played tennis as a kid (01:15)
Worked as a lifeguard (01:25)

Enlistment/Training (01:28)
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Enlisted when he was 19 years old (01:33)
Only his father served in the military before he did
Joined the Air Force to avoid the draft
o Felt under pressure to do something (01:57)
He spent 8 weeks of training
o Remembers it as a terrible experience (02:28)
Became an air policemen
o Had to go to school to learn how to shoot firearms, drive cars, etc (02:49)
The military life was relatively easy to adapt to
Was sent to San Antonio, Texas for 8 weeks of training (03:40)
o After training, he was sent to the Kincheloe Air Force Base in Sault St.
Marie, Michigan for two and a half years

Active Duty – (03:48)






Was then sent to Vietnam
He was first sent to an Air Force Base in a port city on the South China Sea [Da
Nang?]
o Enjoyed the first six months until bombing on Vietnam began (04:13)
o The last six months, the Vietnamese were attacking them
Gained some friendships during the war – some were killed
He never had to participate in the bombing (04:42)

�
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The majority of his missions were to guard planes and keep the Vietcong and
North Vietnamese off of the American base (05:00)
o They fought back and forth
The North Vietnamese would throw satchel charges at the American airplanes
He stayed in touch with his family through writing letters (06:10)
o Soldiers could send home tapes with voice messages on them (06:35)
He found his friends after they were killed (07:26)
For recreation, he bought a motorcycle for 35 dollars (08:15)
They would go surfing and out for beer for enjoyment
They would often go out and visit missionaries to help guard them and their
mission (09:21)
Was able to befriend many Vietnamese
When the war had officially ended in 1975, he was a police chief in Harbor
Springs, Michigan (10:16)
He believed the war was the worst thing that America has ever done
He does not believe that America did not politically commit to fighting the
Vietnam War (11:05)
Believes that the war should have been fought from the military headquarters in
Vietnam, not from Washington D.C. (13:00)

After the Service – (14:02)

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






He returned home in Lansing, Michigan (14:14)
o Returned on a United Airlines jet
He left Vietnam in April, 1966 (14:35)
His family received him very well while others in society did not approve of him
being in the war (15:18)
It was not difficult for him to adjust to civilian life (16:19)
o Considers himself blessed to not have suffered in or after the war
Remains in contact with Air Force friends, but not those that he served with in
Vietnam
Surviving the war helped him realize how good life is back home
o Less things bother you after you serve (17:52)
The war has made him grateful for what he has in America (19:03)
Remembering the difference between his experiences, he remembers that there
was a public execution of a young Vietnamese boy in a soccer stadium
o The boy was tied to a goal post
o He served as a patrol guard outside of the stadium to make sure no
Americans went in
Considers himself lucky to be alive, but is sad that such bad decisions have been
made in America (21:52)

�</text>
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                    <text>Tuesday
March 17, 2020
It is definitely weird to be journaling online and for a class, but here we are. A lot has
happened in the past week, and I am left jobless, not yet hurting financially but may be soon.
I’ve been dealing with the stress of online classes and the constant shutdowns well enough. I am
fortunate enough to have a paid internship which will not stop paying me, but my main source of
income is now gone as I am a host at Anna’s House and cannot be scheduled now.
I understand the necessity for all of this, but as a senior I am immensely frustrated at
having to take online courses (and having professors require synchronous classes/uploading
videos) when my wifi is fairly unreliable. It works well enough for uploading documents or
doing anything that does not require streaming, but my apartment complex had college students
do the wiring for the internet so it’s definitely not good. I had been planning on going to the
library since it was still open, but now all libraries are shut down. While I’ve seen many have
resources surrounding certain internet providers give free internet, I’m not sure I can do so with
my apartment. I also have ADD, and it’s bad when I don’t have a space outside of my apartment
to study in, or the structure of being in a classroom. I was starting to really understand my CIS
class, and now that I’m not in a classroom I fear that the understanding I had will slip and go
away.
GV did the right thing in closing, as did Governor Whitmer, but I can’t help but feel
worried for my future and when this whole thing will blow over. 45 said that it will likely last
until July, and while he is a constant liar, he is president and the likelihood of that happening is
terrifying. I was hoping the virus would be under control by the end of April, I’m not sure I’d be
able to make it financially past that. I know some places are being lenient with rent, but the loss
of income is truly scary. I had friends mention filing for unemployment, but the website is down
and has been since yesterday.
I realize that this entry is a lot of complaining, but I feel like there isn’t an ability to
complain right now. Many people feel like if you are anxious, it’s because you’re inconsiderate
of people who are at risk, and I’m not. I have many friends who are severely at risk right now,
I’m worried about family and grandparents. My dad has diabetes, and so he is also at risk. He’s a
driver for the Rapid, and for some reason they are refusing to allow drivers to wear masks so that
the public isn’t fearful. I just feel unsure of the future. I heard a rumor that people are trying to
get classes to be considered credit/no credit this semester, and honestly, I could see that being an
option. I’m considering doing so for my two classes which involve more synchronous
activity/video uploading activity since I’m not sure my wifi has the capability to do so.
On the bright side (because this has been overwhelmingly negative) my therapist offered
to provide counseling over the phone free of charge, or cancel my copay due to losing my job if I
were to come in. I’ve had two professors I am close with reach out to me to offer support, two of
whom offered to hire me on as a research assistant. I am unsure of how quickly I would be able
to work/get paid, but I hope to be able to do so soon! My mentor in charge of my senior thesis is
incredibly understanding and has been pushing me to take advantage of Replenish (although I’m
not sure if this is still open). She also sent me many texts asking me if I had essential items in the
event I were to get sick (it turns out, I don’t, because I usually do not get the flu, but I am
planning on going out to get supplies today, hopefully…).

�I have been spending a lot of time with my girlfriend, because we’re basically in selfquarantine at this point, and luckily I love my roommate, because we’ve all been together in
Allendale. I have stacks on stacks of books I’ve been meaning to read, and I utilized my
Schuler’s gift card from Christmas to buy Mary Fulbrook’s Reckonings! I’ve had my eye on it
for a while and it looks to be promising, I’ve read quite a few of her books, so I’m eager to dive
in. This book deals with a lot of the reconciliation with the Holocaust in Germany, so it’s a topic
I’m very interested in generally, the idea of memory and national identity. I am also doing okay
with food. I have a lot of chicken, pasta, ribs, beans, and rice to last a while. We’re making bok
choy and ginger chicken soup tonight for dinner. Perhaps this is the time to get a bit fancy and
experiment with new dishes?
I just keep hearing my mom’s voice reassuring me that I should only worry about what I
can control. I can’t do anything about classes being online/closing down of my job. But I can
worry about planning out meals, budgeting, and ensuring all of my assignments get done to the
best of my ability. I can be a self-advocate and communicate with those who care about me about
what I need, and try my best to have a positive outlook on everything. I can focus on my
relationships with other people, which I think is the primary thing keeping everyone sane at the
moment. I think I’ll call one of my friends later today.
Update:
Looking like no graduation for me...but on the bright side Anna’s House will be paying us for the
two weeks that we’re unable to work! I might bleach and dye my hair bright purple? Who knows
what I will do while social distancing.
Wednesday
March 18, 2020
Today I had various over the phone meetings, I filed for unemployment (which I’m sure I
messed up and don’t know what the next steps are), I did laundry, and I went grocery shopping. I
am experiencing a bit of panic today, I started off relatively calm. I woke up, did some reading of
Ozick, said goodbye to my roommate, had some meetings, and washed the dishes. But once I
went grocery shopping I started thinking about the possibility of a recession and what I’m going
to do if I don’t get into graduate school next year. Overall, I am fairly confident in my ability to
survive and keep going, but it was still scary to suddenly have a wash of panic come over me.
Thursday
March 19, 2020
I finished reading Ozick today, and I hated it. I greatly dislike anytime someone tries to
imagine themselves in oppressive environments they’ve never experienced. I once had someone
in my Dirty Wars in Latin America class say that had they been faced with death squads, they
would’ve fought before the military could have killed his children. It’s not usually a stance I’ve
seen in classes on the Holocaust, thankfully. But this book bothered me in the same way. There
is no way for us to know how we would’ve responded under those circumstances. Whether we
would have complied, resisted, or collaborated. There is just no way to know, we have hopes that
we would have resisted, that we would’ve put ourselves in harms way to protect others, the more
vulnerable. But we simply cannot know. Because of this, I find The Shawl unsettling. I do not
like the idea that we are creating fiction which claims even one experience of a survivor, of any

�sort, to feel one way. She can’t know, even if she were to research and interview survivors, she
has no way of ever truly knowing.
I created this line to differentiate from my discussion of Ozick, I’ve already written my
response paper. I went to pick up tacos, and my girlfriend Chloe and I watched a documentary on
cults. Despite being raised in one, they still fascinate me.
Friday
March 20, 2020
I woke up today feeling worse. I’ve had a cough for the past two days, but it wasn’t
concerning, it’s gotten worse, but I think it’s just a cold. I’ve been monitoring my symptoms and
I just have a cough. Nothing else, plus I’ve barely been out, and if I have it’s been with little
contact with others. I did visit my family yesterday briefly, but they’ve also been in quarantine.
My dad has a sinus infection, and so he asked me not to hug him. I stood far away from him once
he told me, and left shortly after, making sure to tell my mom to disinfect the door handles I
touched. I’m worried it’s something more, or it will turn into a more serious situation given that
he has diabetes and that puts him more at risk for the coronavirus. Hopefully he gets better. This
is giving everyone massive anxiety at the moment, and for good reason. It’s ridiculous how some
are not giving this the attention it needs. I decided to remove someone from my Facebook feed
because she kept posting things about how the coronavirus wasn’t that serious and that the media
was blowing it out of proportion to take away our rights. I just don’t understand how people
could blow this off. I was supposed to pick up my tip share today from Anna’s House and I
didn’t because I have a cough and didn’t want to risk anyone else who might be there at the same
time as me getting ill.
Aside from all the usual anxiety surrounding the coronavirus, I’ve been doing good. I’ve
gotten all the work I needed to get done, aside from my computer science class, out of the way
for the week. I also contacted my advisor to get him to send an email about taking my Spanish
class and CIS class as credit/no credit. Both classes have more requirements online (video
calling, Blackboard collaborate, programming, etc.) which I find more difficult to do given my
internet access. I’m feeling good about my level of productivity to be honest.
It’s been rough, and I’ve definitely had moments of panic thinking about an impending
recession as I graduate college, but I can’t predict the future. I can only try my best to adequately
prepare myself for what I can do. I did get accepted to present my research at the Latina/o
Studies Association at Notre Dame! With that added to my CV I will have presented at the Great
Lakes History Conference twice, the Michigan Sociological Association, and the Phi Alpha
Theta conference in San Antonio in addition to the many times I’ve presented at Student
Scholar’s Day.
At the moment I am alone, Chloe went out to meet her dad, she’s finally getting her
phone fixed. She ran it over when she returned from Tennessee because she was desperately
trying to leave her dad’s driveway at 2 a.m., her brother had hit a neighbor’s car and so there was
a lot of tension in the air. I’m relieved, for the past two weeks she hasn’t been able to use her
phone, and so she’s been hard to contact. Luckily she doesn’t have work right now, but it’s crazy
how convenient having a phone is, and what it’s like when you suddenly don’t have one. She has
group work and people were trying to form a group chat, which she can’t really do. Now that

�she’s out of the apartment, I am planning on cleaning my room and vacuuming. I am normally a
very neat person, but she’s like a tornado. She makes messes wherever she goes.
That’s all for now. I’m off to vacuum.
Tuesday
March 24, 2020
The past few days have been strange. I’m finally over my cold. My nose is slightly stuffy
but I am no longer having trouble with a sore throat and cough. Despite Governor Whitmer’s
order, my apartment complex, Trio (do not ever live there), decided to give us a brand new
roommate. I am stressed about having to continue self-quarantine for three more weeks, because
I miss being outside. The order said we could still exercise so I’m thinking of going to a nearby
park (that usually doesn’t have many people) and going for a walk and doing some reading. I am
going insane not being able to be outside, especially with seasonal depression. It’s being
prolonged. I understand, but I greatly need some exercise and fresh air.
I’ve been practicing my makeup again. Being so sick I was barely able to do anything,
and doing my makeup despite not being able to go out makes me feel prepared for the day.
Wednesday
March 25, 2020
Today was a day of deep cleaning. I spent the day doing laundry, cleaning the bathroom,
washing my makeup brushes, and spring cleaning my room. I threw out quite a bit, and I
completely reorganized everything. My desk is clear, I have all of my rocks and seashells on my
window pane, in addition to my two small cacti. I have two succulents, but I need to get a
smaller pot for one of them because it’s too large to fit comfortably on my small bookshelf. All
of my plants are doing well, it makes me quite happy.
Thursday
March 26, 2020
Journaling and planning out my weeks is the only way I am able to keep track of my
days, because it feels like everything is a bit of a blur. I’m sure I downplayed how sick I was last
week, but thinking back on it, and given how sore my nose is from blowing it, it was pretty bad. I
FaceTimed one of my friends yesterday, Laura. They attend Harvard, and so seeing their
apartment is always insane, given the amount of money the institution has. Unfortunately, the
connection wasn’t great, so it was difficult to hear them, even with me using my phone’s data. I
haven’t seen them in person since last June when we were at a summer program at the University
of Michigan together, and it’s a shame. I miss them.
MY EAR WON’T POP AND I’M IRRITATED. IT’S BEEN STUCK LIKE THIS FOR
DAYS. I HATE BEING SICK/RECOVERING FROM SICKNESS.
I just found out my unemployment claim was denied. So, that’s fucking fantastic. I’ve
been on hold to chat with a representative for the past twenty minutes which is also just amazing.

�Update: I was on hold for two hours, got off hold, asked a question, and then was disconnected. I
am extremely upset and angry.
Friday
March 27, 2020
I had a call with Dr. McKee and went over the next steps for my senior project. All seems
to be going well. I took a shower and it made my ear worsen, which is frustrating. Chloe thinks
it’s an ear infection, but I really hope not, given that there is little option to go to the doctor right
now. Not that I would normally, with how expensive it is, but especially now.
Anna’s House had a conference call today, and the update provided is slightly confusing,
but it seems like they’ll be paying us for two more weeks. So, ultimately, they have decided to
provide us with a full month’s worth of wages. I really did not expect this from them, given what
I know about other donations/business practices, but it’s really surprised me and made me
relieved to see the attitude those in management have towards their workers.
Sunday
March 29, 2020
I had a call yesterday with Dr McKee, she had mentioned nominating me for an award
based off of my senior project. While exciting, I am scared of disappointing her. I need to ensure
I write much more this upcoming week, but I also just realized I have a ton of big assignments
coming down the pipeline. I feel like I am struggling to survive with the expectations some
professors continue to have while I am unsure of when I will be able to return to work. It’s
looking to be the end of April/beginning of May at the earliest? I don’t know what I can do. I am
supposed to provide Michigan State with an answer about where I will be attending by the 15th
of April, and while I was fully expecting to reject the offer, the impending recession/depression
has me second-guessing my decision. While I want to get started on my Ph.D., if there’s a
depression coming down the pipeline, it really is in my best interest to apply and attend a
university that has a better reputation for Latin American history. MSU’s program isn’t
particularly strong outside of the African diaspora, and I want to ensure I have the proper tools to
thrive as a Mexicanist. On the other hand, it’s an ensured job/path to my future. I’m hoping I’ll
find something in the meantime, I always figure it out. Whether it’s continuing to work at Anna’s
House part-time with an additional job on the side, or finding more meaningful work, I will
survive until I get into another graduate program I can envision myself in.
Monday
March 30, 2020
I received an email today informing me that I was accepted into the Ph.D. program at
Indiana University in Bloomington! I’ll be moving there in August.
Wednesday
April 1, 2020
I’ve been spending some time trying to figure out housing in Bloomington, which is
insane and scary given that I can’t visit the city where I will be spending the next 7 or so years of
my life. I won’t be able to meet professors in person, see the library, or interrogate History Ph.D.

�students about the culture of the department. I know I have a good funding package, but I’d have
liked to be able to go down and see the apartment I’d be living in. Ride the bus to the building
I’ll be in on campus. Figure out where I’ll be going to get food and how to get there from where I
live. That’s all postponed and will be happening virtually, which I’m not a fan of.
Additionally, I feel like finishing the semester online is catching up to me. We have a few
weeks left, and final projects are coming on quickly. I’m not sure how I’ll be able to do all of this
with no ability to go to a library, meet with classmates, or have access to a printer and be able to
have physical copies of books I request from the library. Never before have I realized how reliant
I am on the library. It’s truly an incredible space, and I am lucky to be able to utilize it and have
figured out how to do interlibrary loans. I barely bought any books this semester, and now that
the end of the semester is here, it’s become very frustrating to try to get access to books the
library has physical copies of, that I cannot pick up. I’m a very tactile person, I need to be able to
physically do a lot. Highlight the copies of chapters I have, or use sticky notes to mark important
points for my papers. I miss being able to sit down in the library and spend a long evening
combing through books I’ve gathered and jotting down notes. It’s a very mundane part of
college, but it’s one of my favorites. Chloe and I love going to the library with snacks and a
small blanket and really finding a great spot to spend hours as we work on history papers
together. It’s that sense of community that I miss. As we continue living in lock down, I hope it’s
an aspect of life I can return to soon.
Friday
April 3, 2020
I spoke to a graduate student at IU over Skype today! I’m glad I did. Margarita was really
nice and easy to talk to. We have similar interests in research, and she told me about a paper
someone had done where they revealed a revelation that Emiliano Zapata had been gay! I’m
hoping that she’s able to send me this grad student’s work, because it’s immensely interesting
and I’d love to see their argument/resources. She also offered to help me look for an apartment
and gave me quite a bit of advice on life as a first year graduate student at IU. I’m planning on
sending her a few apartments I’ve checked out. I'm still unsure of whether or not I should find
roommates or live by myself for the first year. Bloomington isn’t too expensive, and is actually a
much cheaper place to live without a roommate than Grand Rapids, but it does give me anxiety
to try to do so in a city I’m unfamiliar with.
I also had the opportunity to call a scholar Dr. McKee had put me in contact with. That
was slightly awkward, but it was still really insightful. She was blunt, and I appreciated it.
Margarita was a lot more positive about IU, which is good, but I also needed to hear about
what’s going to be a challenge. I think at the forefront of what I need to consider is my mental
health and finding community. Both are aspects of life I struggle with now, and I anticipate it
continuing to be difficult, especially in a graduate program, and one which is five hours away.
It’s strange. I still need to finish out this school year but I’ve lost my motivation to do so.
I can’t find it within myself to complete the work expected of me in my internship, and while
I’ve been keeping up with all of my classes, there are definitely two that have fallen through the
cracks. I was denied unemployment, and while my job has continued to pay me, they are trying
to encourage us to deny payment and accept unemployment as it’ll provide us with more funds.
I’m seriously stressed, and the expansion of the time we will be spending in quarantine is bound

�to drive me crazy. I’m sure that part of my procrastination has to do with the fact that I have a
plan for the upcoming school year. I don’t need to worry about finding a job post-graduation
anymore, and I have a set income. A good one, definitely more than I would have gotten through
MSU. It’s like I’m dedicating my time and resources to what I can control, which is planning for
a future outside of COVID-19.
Tomorrow I have the opportunity to call another graduate student, which will be exciting.
For now, I’m off to work on homework and final projects...
Saturday
April 4, 2020
Today I brought my dad lunch, he is still driving for the Rapid and was in Allendale
doing the 50/85 route. He’s upset he hasn’t been laid off, primarily because he’s highly fearful of
getting the virus. It's understandable, my mom is highly cautious at the moment, Chloe and I
went shopping with her the other day, because she has a Sam’s Club card. Chloe’s laptop broke
down and it was one of the only places we were able to go to get a new one. When we met in the
parking lot, she brought out hand sanitizer for us to use, gave us gloves and masks, and only then
she hugged me hello. I’m glad I saw my dad...moving to Bloomington has riddled me with
anxiety and I’m super scared to have to do so. I’ve been riddled with anxiety, but it was nice to
see him for a bit. He rattled off a list of things we need to replace in my car before I move in
August.
Sunday
April 5, 2020
Oy. I’ve been apartment hunting today as well. It seems like the more I research the more
I’m scared I won’t find a place. There are so many complexes and landlords which people are
warning me against on the internet, which is spooky, as they’re usually the ones I was strongly
considering until people retell their horror stories. I was planning on getting roommates in order
to counter costs, but quite a few people have ghosted me, and now I’m unsure of whether or not
I’d be able to find anyone to live with. The problem is, I’m sure others would be more open to
helping me out if I’d had the opportunity to go visit the program in person.
Monday
April 6, 2020
I just finished speaking to Isabel on the phone, and she was so insanely nice. I was blown
away by her personality, and her frankness. It was really refreshing to have someone tell me
straight out who I should be more wary of.
Overall the day was good, my internet keeps cutting out though, which was annoying.
I’m trying to do homework, work, and just attempting to prepare for my move. Skyping and
chatting with people is getting to be really hard, especially since it’ll freeze after about an hour
and makes it nearly impossible to continue.
Wednesday
April 8, 2020

�I had the opportunity to speak to Dr. Krista Benson today, which was very helpful. They
raised quite a bit of important points which I should be considering when speaking to Dr.
Guardino in regards to graduate school and the department. Specifically, whether or not my
stipend is pre or post tax, if I am expected to use all of my research summer funding in archives
in Mexico, or would I be able to utilize it for conferences. What conference funding looks like,
how many students finish in five years, and what funding is available for those who are past year
five. Additionally, they wanted me to inquire about whether teaching appointments are 50
percent, and if so whether or not we can take a higher percentage in order to earn more. I also
have to ask how those positions are assigned.
After speaking with Dr. Benson, I spoke to Casey through Zoom, and miraculously the
internet did not cut out after an hour (it cut out two times while I was chatting with Dr. Benson).
He was insanely nice and easy to talk to. I really appreciated how welcoming he was, how
excited he was about me joining and about the department in general. He gave me a lot of good
advice, and he also offered to go check out apartments for me and reach out to graduate students
who may be looking for roommates. Every time I speak to a grad student at IU I find myself
really excited to attend. I did not anticipate that I’d be so thrilled about the environment I’d be in,
but the prospect of being in Bloomington is promising, although daunting.
I’m scared, but I’m also excited to be in an environment where everyone is as passionate
about history as I am. I can’t wait to be surrounded by intellectual conversations about
neoliberalism, colonialism, and gender and sexuality all situated within a Latin American history
context. I’m worried about being apart from Chloe, but am confident that we can do this.
Thursday
April 9, 2020
I had my first anxiety attack of the quarantine yet, it’s been almost a month, and it’s
getting to me. I hate being at home, and feeling bombarded by work, but with no motivation to
do it all. It’s difficult for me to have a separation between relaxation and work. I don’t know how
to do it. Usually when I need to get things done, I spend a day at a coffee shop, or at the library,
and I get things done! I feel like I’m going back and forth on productivity, one day I’m super
productive, I get the work I need to get done finished, and I feel great, and then the next I feel
lethargic, anxious, and I do work, I research IU and try to gather information, talk to potential
roommates, etc. But I’m not getting vital things for my coursework or work done!
I can work from home, but not all the time! Things are falling through the cracks, really
falling. It’s bad. I feel like I’m letting people down and I hate to do that. I just want to be able to
go outside and not feel scared about it. I want to be able to go to a bookstore and browse the
shelves! I want to be able to go to the park, and not care if someone gets near me. I miss human
connection! I even want to go to work, and I hate going to work most of the time! I just hate
being cooped up, I want to go to a movie theater, to go on dates. I want to be able to hang out
with my friends. As of right now the governor has extended it to May 1st, and I really hope it
ends there. I need to make money, I need to save for my move. I was denied unemployment,
we’re waiting on those checks from the government but I don’t even know for sure that I’m
getting one! I feel like the world is falling apart and I am here trying my best to stand my ground.
It’s scaring me.

�Growing up, I was a Jehovah’s Witness. We were constantly told stories about the end of
the world, Armageddon. If we weren’t good enough, we wouldn’t make it to an eternal paradise.
We would die, alongside the rest of the non-Jehovah’s Witnesses. I had nightmares about it. Me,
a little girl (at the time) who felt out of place as a girl, and who didn’t know that I was queer. For
reference, these were the images I grew up seeing in my “Book of Bible Stories” and other JW
publications:

Jehovah’s Witnesses everywhere are convinced that the world is currently coming to an end, that
this is the “beginning of the system of things.” While I no longer am part of the religion, I
realized today that I am reliving the trauma of having grown up with these beliefs. I started to
have trouble breathing as I cried, and I found myself asking Chloe if this was the end. It’s an
inherent feeling that I am being punished, which is, of course, absurd. This cannot be happening
only to me, and it's not happening because I have sinned against god. But yet I’ve been
programmed to think so. In times like these, where I find myself reverting back to old ways of
thinking, I have to tell myself that everyone is going through this right now. Everyone is
struggling. There is not one person who is (not absurdly rich) that is thriving under these
circumstances. And while bleak, it helps. No other time in history (that I know of, and I’m a
history major) has the entire world stood still and ordered everyone to stay home.
It’s a crazy thing to be living through, and I’m not sure why, but that brings me some
level of comfort. Undoubtedly, this will be a well studied time period in the future by historians.
They will look back and study how people dealt with the quarantine. Someone on twitter made a
joke about how in a few years we’re going to be seeing articles on “queering the quarantine:
towards radical forms of queer isolation,” (I can’t find the original tweet otherwise I’d include it
here, but someone did already go ahead and make a spotify playlist named this. Can be found
here). In that I take comfort, that I am taking part, however passively, in history.
Friday
April 10, 2020

�Another day where my main thing to look forward to was a meeting. I had a meeting with
Dr. McKee to discuss some slight revisions on my senior thesis. Nothing too major, it was
primarily focused on me providing more detail in my earlier sections. In the interest of giving
some insight into what my senior thesis is, I will provide some context for what it is I’m working
on. I am essentially discussing Guatemalan adoption to families in the United States, but I’m also
taking into account how Guatemala came to be such a big sending nation to the U.S. in terms of
children. Guatemala has a long-standing history of U.S. intervention into economic interests in
the nation, namely with the United Fruit Company which owned a large portion of land in the
nation and controlled a lot of governmental decisions undertaken. What resulted was an
impoverished and exploited indigenous population. U.S. overthrowal of a democratically elected
president, who prioritized Guatemalan economic interests led to a series of strongmen being in
power, and a thirty year civil war ensued. In the midst of this civil war, children were being
taken from families considered subversive, and once the country’s civil war “ended” children
began to be trafficked into adoption agencies who would send them to the United States. Now
this ended in 2008, when Guatemala gained international attention for the horrendous practices at
play, but with separations at the border which began to take place, Americans who desired to
adopt children easily had a newfound access point.
I am so excited to be working on this project, I find it invigorating academically, and it
fills me with anger and yet curiosity to understand the operations at play. A lot of my edits have
to do with ensuring I am engaging properly with a lot of adoption scholars, as Dr. McKee knows
of who I should be engaging with, and finding access to them, as well as time to read all of it.
She wants to turn it into an article, which I am excited about, and hope to do, as I’m sure it will
make me far more marketable and competitive for funding once I am at IU.
I also spoke to Dr. Guardino today, which was great. I am once again excited beyond
belief to join the history department at Indiana University. He was excellent in explaining the
town and (lack of) diversity in the area. He really reassured me that there are ample opportunities
past the fifth year to continue getting funding, it would just be without my fellowship. I did have
some questions he wasn’t able to answer, mainly about taxes, but overall it was instrumental to
understanding how I will be able to build a relationship with him as my advisor. He discussed
individuals leaving the program as a positive thing, saying that he didn’t like to say people
“dropped out” because it wasn’t negative, they had found their path. I’m sure it’s definitely
going to be very tough, the first year always is, according to everyone I’ve spoken to, but the
prospect of a new beginning is enthralling.
Saturday
April 11, 2020
I found a potential roommate! Her name is Sarah and she lives at Sassafras Hill
Apartments, I’m excited, she seemed really nice and we set up a time to Zoom, which was
intensely awkward but good. It’d be a financial relief for sure to room with someone else, but it
does give me anxiety to go in somewhat blind in terms of apartments and roommates. What
excites me about the possibility of living with Sarah is that she’s a four year grad student and has
been living in Bloomington much longer than I have. But at the same time, Chloe is planning on
moving to Bloomington after her graduation a year from now, and I’d like for us to be reunited
as soon as possible, especially after living in different states for 9 months and I wouldn’t want
anyone to feel it sprung upon them, that I would like to live with my partner while they were

�expecting me to stick around.
Today was a day of ups and downs for sure. While I felt relieved about finding a potential
roommate, I also have to do a group project for my Soviet History class and had to deal with a
very hostile groupmate. I had tried setting up a method of communication which would be
effective for everyone (group chat) and it was denied, and then I tried providing suggestions for
the project and one guy in particular, who had sent me an annoyed email about the group chat,
also emailed me a very rude email about how he didn’t want to do my idea because it wasn’t
convenient for him. Finishing the email with, “please let me know when you receive this email
as I have things I need to do.” The entire language of the email caused me to cry out of
frustration, I’m obviously not going to include the email, but it was intensely rude and hostile. I
ended up emailing my professor to ask to complete the assignment alone, and luckily it was
granted. I really don’t need the stress of trying to find a place to live in another state, filing for
unemployment, applying for jobs, and dealing with an egotistical group member.
Sunday
April 12, 2020
Chlo and I have begun watching a bit of Naked and Afraid, one of her dad’s students, a
GVSU alum (!), was on the show and so we watched the season he was on. It was definitely
interesting to be able to share this show with her, it’s one my family would sit around and watch
together. It’s really interesting to watch, given that they’re such dangerous situations and you get
to see real depictions of how people react to dehydration, extreme fatigue, and finding food in
the wild. I’ve done a lot of sharing different shows I grew up watching with her, in addition to
showing her iconic movies she never saw growing up.
Well, as wholesome as watching fun shows with my girlfriend is, I am going to rant
about what just happened to me at Meijer. Chloe and I were leaving Meijer, having stocked up
on a good amount of groceries for the upcoming two-ish weeks and gotten Starbucks, when the
alarm at the door went off. Now, I always say hello to the Meijer greeters, so I had said hello to
her when I walked in, and we had done the self-checkout near her, as well as gotten the
Starbucks near her. She had seen us pay, I know she had because we had made eye contact. At
Starbucks, I threw away my receipt. I explained this to her when I was leaving, and she made me
go back and get my receipt out of the garbage. She didn’t ask Chloe, my white girlfriend, for her
receipt, she didn’t even look at her when the beeping started, she looked at me and told me to go
get it out of the trash. I did, I wish I hadn’t, I wish I had spoken to the woman working who had
helped me at the self check out to prove I had bought it, or pulled up my bank info or something,
but I dug through the trash and got my receipt.
When Chlo and I got to the car I broke down crying. People have been showing how they
really feel about people of color a lot of more nowadays, whether they realize it or not. Older
white people have been rude to me in the aisles, gotten way too close and shoved me, I’ve gotten
more dirty looks than ever while shopping with Chloe. We’re taking precautions, keeping our
distance, yet I am being treated in a worse way than I normally experience. So I had an anxiety
attack, I’ve had more anxiety attacks in my time at home than I have had in the past year. I’m
sick of all of this.

�Monday
April 13, 2020
I had a Zoom call with a student in the Gender Studies department, and that was so
awkward. It was honestly kind of awful, Margarita introduced me to him through email, and so I
figured I’d give him a call. He didn’t know why I was calling and I didn’t know what to discuss
since he was a very quiet person. I did ask some basic questions about queer identity and
Bloomington in general, which provided a lot of interesting information around parking in the
area. I definitely will be more careful with who I contact in the future, since it was pretty painful
to have the video call quite honestly.
Tuesday
April 14, 2020
Chloe and I went to Grand Haven today and found a spot on the beach to sit and enjoy
the waves. They were huge, and I love having the opportunity to sit in nature. We made sure to
sit at a distance from anyone else, there were mainly people parked sitting in cars staring at the
waves. It was pretty cold but there were some people surfing on the waves, and it was so fun to
watch. I’m not sure why, but I find myself mesmerized whenever I am in nature. It’s like it
revives me. It could be me sitting outside on a lawn, feeling the grass between my fingers, in a
forest, looking at the sun peaking through the treetops, or just watching the waves and thinking
about how incredible and dangerous the water can be. Whenever I’m having a bad day I like to
go for walks or just sit outside, so it was so nice to feel the wind on my face and be able to sit in
the sand.
I just feel revived. I’m so happy.
Wednesday
April 15, 2020
I received my stimulus check from the government today and paid off my Discover credit
card! There goes over 1,100 of debt! I am so extremely happy and proud of myself to have paid
off so much debt this year. This year thus far I have completely cleared 2,000 in debt that I had
accrued from: getting kicked out when I came out, getting surgery, getting glasses, and medical
expenses for my dog. I still have to pay off my laptop, but I’m hoping that’ll be something I can
try to clear up as much as possible this summer and next. Being in debt and racked by monthly
payments is a feeling I wouldn’t wish on anyone, it’s nerve wracking and anxiety inducing to not
know if you’ll be able to make the monthly payments, and feeling like it’s a never-ending task to
pay them off. I had also used my tax return to pay off one of the accounts completely, I’m just
really proud of myself for the financial decisions I made this year so far. I was so excited to get
out from under debt and to improve myself, and while this pandemic has set me back I’m still
hopeful I’ll get there someday.
Saturday
April 18, 2020
We went to the park today! There’s a park out here in Allendale where Chloe and I took
our dinner and sat on a bench and just enjoyed the sun setting. In the middle of us sitting and
eating a group of girls pulled up in two different vehicles. There was a bathroom nearby so it was

�somewhat blocking our view of what was happening but we could see two big groups of girls
trying to swing at each other and screaming. One called the other girl the n-word (all were
white), and after about five minutes both groups got into their cars and left.
It was so strange, and irritating because they presumably don’t all live together and are
clearly breaking social distancing but it was definitely a spicy occurence in an overall chill and
slightly dull day.
Tuesday
April 21, 2020
I bit the bullet and signed a lease today. There goes $775 of my savings. I applied for the
unemployment pandemic thing but who knows if I’ll get anything, there’s a group on Facebook
filled with people who haven’t gotten any money despite being approved and those who’ve been
denied and have been on the phone everyday for hours on end for weeks trying to make sense of
it all. I’m anxious because the rent is so high and that means that I’ll owe $675 on the first of
August in Bloomington without actually needing to be there until the 24th but hopefully it’ll be
okay. My plan is to work two jobs this summer before August so that I can afford the move and
save some money before the stipend kicks in. This is all intensely stressful and it’s also exam
week so...that’s great. I did start applying to jobs this weekend and got a call back from Biggby
and scheduled a job interview for Saturday.
Wednesday
April 22, 2020
I was approved for the pandemic assistance! I hope I actually get it, oh my god. I am so
happy. I also had emailed Dr. Guardino and asked about when I would receive my stipend and he
offered to loan me the money for the apartment so that I am able to secure my first month in
Bloomington! I am so intensely happy and thankful.
If I’m able to secure the assistance (and actually receive it) I won’t have to borrow money
from him and my first month will be covered. I’m not sure that will happen given how much
trouble everyone else has had but hopefully I’m all set once I certify. I’ve never looked down on
anyone who had to file for unemployment, but I truly did not realize just how awful it is, the
system is ridiculous and impossible to navigate. I didn’t even receive an email notifying me that
I had been approved, I had to check today and even then, when I login, it doesn’t say I’ve been
approved. I had to go to a completely different part of the site to see it. All that has been proved
to me over and over again throughout this pandemic is that our country is broken. People are not
willing to listen to our governor, who is trying to save their lives, and are willing to put
themselves and others at jeopardy to protest when they are the same people who will argue for
violence against black and brown people who protest police brutality. Once again the nation is
bailing out big businesses while they are failing those who are most vulnerable. These are all
things I already knew, but to see them highlighted on a massive scale finally feels like most
individuals who were content to sit back and watch are having a realization of the devastation
which is caused.
But, per usual, nothing will happen. Come November I will be forced to vote for Joe
Biden, who is not a progressive in any way, and who has had allegations of sexual misconduct

�against him, in order to get Trump out of office. All that has been highlighted is my utter disgust
of the current administration, something I had tried to engage with at a bare minimum, enough to
be engaged but not enough to give me an aneurysm on a daily basis. I am just disheartened, it
makes me want to not vote, it won’t accomplish anything, my not voting, but it just disgusts me
to have to vote for Joe Biden. I’m not confident in his ability to win, nor in who he is. What has
happened is this: this pandemic has forced me to sit and think. I have nothing but time to think
about my life, what is important to me, my values, my goals for my life, what has happened to
me to shape the person I am today. I have come to many conclusions.
1. I do not want to live a life where I am constantly worried about money and where one
small instance can cripple me. (I guess I really shouldn’t have chosen to go into the
humanities but…)
2. I want to use my life to benefit those who are less fortunate than I am. Despite not having
an easy upbringing, I can recognize that if it weren’t for quite a few mentors in my life, I
wouldn’t have gotten as far as I did. The myth of meritocracy is alive and well but I do
not believe in it.
3. Activism is vital. I want to figure out how to support it and be involved while
maintaining my mental health.
4. I value people. I did not realize just how hurt I would be to be restricted from human
connection, and to see so many suffering. I broke down crying at the protests because of
the complete disregard for the safety of others. I would like to find a way to use my love
of people to make a difference.
Thursday
April 23, 2020
I certified for my week's unemployment, but am super scared I’ll end up messing up or
accidentally doing something wrong because I don’t understand the system. I just have massive
anxiety that I'll accidentally perjure myself somehow. I was actually super productive this week,
which was nice. I got a lot of work for Cook Leadership Academy done!
Update: I just realized my last date of employment was the 18th although I stopped
working on the 11th, and I already forfeited my potential earnings, so I won’t be in danger of
perjuring myself (or shouldn’t be, I’m still scared). Hopefully I’ll get the earnings in time?
Friday
April 24, 2020
I graduated? I submitted my final exams but it just didn’t feel monumental. I’m the first
person in my family to have gone to university, and while I wasn’t sure about whether I was
going to walk, I still wanted to have the option to do so. I’m unsure of whether or not I’ll be
attending the makeup graduation in October since I’ll already be in graduate school in
Bloomington. It just feels fruitless to do so, especially when I have another graduation so far
down the line, and a far more important one. I’m hoping to catch up on some reading and relax.
Probably try to do some more networking with people in Bloomington, read some articles from
the faculty I’d like to work with, and relax. Get back into some hobbies like painting, journaling,
and making crafts.

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
John Kennaugh

Total Time – (01:02:17)

Background

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He was born in Rockford, Illinois on March 4, 1923 (00:16)
After three years, his family moved to Belvedere, Illinois
o He lived there until 1935 (00:32)
From Belvedere, his family then moved to Dixon, Illinois (00:42)
o He grew up in Dixon, Illinois
His family moved to Dixon because his father got a job at the Freeman Shoe
Company (00:54)
o His dad ended up deciding to go on his own and become an electrician
There were two children in his family
o He had a younger brother (01:14)
He finished his schooling at Dixon High School in 1941 (01:23)
After high school, he went to work with an engineering company doing land
surveying

Enlistment/Basic Training – (01:50)




While in Dixon, he was a part of the Illinois Reserve Militia – They took the place
of the National Guard during the war (01:53)
o He had access to the armory
 He was playing basketball in the armory when he heard about
Pearl Harbor (02:07)
With the Illinois Reserve Militia he became a Drill Instructor
o There were two different occasions where they were sent out on duty
(02:24)
 One was a train wreck outside of Dixon – He was posted in the
mail car
 The second was when he went to Savanna, Illinois where they
guarded the Illinois side of the bridge going over the Mississippi
River
o They drilled and trained once a week (03:13)
o The Militia was a volunteer position

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After Pearl Harbor he considered enlisting into the military – he was going to wait
to get drafted (03:40)
He received his draft notice in early 1943
He reported for duty in February of 1943 (04:01)
Because of his background with the militia, he was responsible of getting men
from Dixon to Chicago, Illinois
When they got to Chicago, they received their physical inspection (04:40)
He was sent to Camp Grant in Rockford, Illinois for basic training (05:05)
When he got to basic training, he had some advantages because of his previous
experience
o One of the Drill Instructors asked if anyone had any drill experience – his
friends shouted his name out
o He was asked to stay on as a Drill Instructor but he declined (06:24)
Aside from drilling, the soldiers were involved in building tents that were built up
(07:10)
o They also dug trenches, helped move supplies at a hospital, and other odd
jobs (07:39)
o He took some written exams at Camp Grant as well – he scored 136/150
(08:34)
From Camp Grant he went to St. Petersburg, Florida where the soldiers were put
up in a hotel for a short time (08:52)
o They drilled out on the streets (08:57)
o They were then moved out to “Tent City” located on a golf course
o The sun did not shine until 10 A.M. (09:23)
o His basic training actually occurred in St. Petersburg, Florida
Most of the men there were meant to go into the Army Air Forces
o He was trained to be part of the ground crew (10:12)
 They were meant to maintain planes that could maintain a newly
acquired base
 When a squadron of planes would come out, they could maintain
the planes until their ground crews could go forward (10:27)
 At the time, the Japanese were almost at the point of getting into
India
After St. Petersburg, he had courses in handling bombs, handling fuses, training
as an ordinance individual, etc.
He trained in Utah, Iowa, and Texas (12:20)
o He learned to drive trucks in Texas
o In the same training period, he was on a couple of convoys being sent up
to new trucks – they would then drive them back to the base
He received training in Utah on how to handle bombs, fuses, etc. (13:14)
Iowa was the last base before departing for active duty (13:34)
o He was responsible for drilling his own people, training his people on
fuses and bombs – he was an instructor at the time (13:48)
He had been in training for nearly one and a half years before receiving his orders
to go overseas (14:08)
o At this point it was the middle of 1944 (14:19)

�
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He had received some leave time
There were no other men that went through all of the same training that he did
(15:12)
Iowa is where his group came together
His group departed from California – they had to do some drilling there to keep
them busy (15:50)

Active Duty – India – (16:12)
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They were deployed on a transport ship (16:20)
o They were on the sea for thirty-three days
o They stopped in Australia for one day but were not allowed to get off
(16:34)
o They were taken to Bombay (Mumbai), India (16:42)
The ship sailed by itself
o They sailed in a zigzag pattern (17:13)
His time on the ship was spent playing cards and doing other activities
While on the ship they went through one storm where the ship would hit the
waves and then drop (18:02)
o He does not recall any of the men getting seasick
o He did not spend much time on deck (18:27)
 There were too many men for everyone to be on deck at the same
time
Once he gets to Bombay, they were dropped off at the docks where he got all of
his mail
o He received nearly three dozen letters (18:57)
o Many of the men had tears in their eyes when they received their letters
The men were then sent on train from Bombay to an airbase in northeastern India
(19:20)
o The train was interesting in that the restroom on board was a cubicle area
with a hole in the ground (19:45)
o At the different stops, the number of people looking for help was
incredible
o They played a lot of cards on the train
o The train was covered but not enclosed (20:36)
The men were surprised at what the Indians looked like, seeing the beggars, the
housing was something they had never seen before, etc.
At the airbase, he would go see a movie every night (21:52)
o Two nights in a row, with a clear sky, the moon was blue
At the Airbase, he was waiting to go on duty (22:34)
o His particular services were not needed
o Some of the soldiers would play baseball during the day (22:43)
After having gone to Calcutta to buy some things to send home, he found out that
he could not send home a bundle heavier than 10 lbs. (23:08)

�
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There were many American units on the base as well – there were different
squadrons present
They had to take a malaria killing medicine every day until they left the country
(24:23)

Active Duty – India/Burma/China – (24:40)
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After staying at the base for some time, his next assignment was to go to Cox’s
Bazaar in what is now Bangladesh (24:53)
o Ten men were sent there to move munitions from a ship to a new
munitions dump (25:02)
o They stayed in housing that were pole structures with straw roofs (25:41)
o While in Cox’s Bazaar, he and another soldier were responsible for getting
two trucks “in shape” (26:13)
 They were part of the motor pool
o He was able to eat British food while he was there (26:31)
 On Christmas Eve, some of the soldiers were invited to celebrate
with some British soldiers – It was the one time in his life where he
got drunk (27:26)
 He was not a big drinker and the others knew that
During his time in India, he found out that there was a need to work with pilots
that were removing wounded from the front lines in Burma (29:10)
o He volunteered to work with the pilots (29:28)
 He would set up the camp, get the food, prepare the water for
washing, got supplies for the chef, etc.
 He worked with the pilots three or four different times (29:51)
 The last time he worked with them a pilot took him to his next air
base at “Rangoon” (Yangon), Burma (29:59)
 When they arrived, the pilot made a sharp turn and the
engine stopped – they ended up landing on a black top road
(30:28)
 One of the struts his the edge of the road and they ran into a
cemetery wall
 When the plane crash landed, he just “hung on” (31:07)
 The pilot did a good job of keeping it under control
His cargo squadron then needed someone to go into China so he volunteered to go
(31:53)
They stopped in Kunming, China (32:06)
o It was a woody area – he went and walked around in the woods
 While he was in the woods, he was shot at by a Chinese soldier
(32:34)
 He eventually made it back to camp without any harm (33:03)
They then went to an airbase near Xi’an, China (33:15)
o When he arrived and settled in, he learned that a Transport Squadron
planes had crashed (33:34)

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o He went to HQ to volunteer for recovery
 He was elected to go with a two others and an interpreter (33:58)
The trip was seven days
o They were driven to the first mountain range – they were kept overnight in
a house – their beds were overtop a fireplace (34:30)
When they climbed the mountain ranges to where the plane crashed, they had
decided that they better have a good meal before they get to the last village
(35:06)
o When they arrived in the village, there was a committee there to welcome
them in (35:57)
o They found out that there was a 12 course meal waiting for them (36:33)
o They stayed in the village for two nights
After staying in the village, they went to where the plane was (37:40)
o When they arrived, they found that the plane had belly-flopped on the
peak of the mountain (37:47)
 The cabin broke loose and the seven G.I.’s flew out through the
opening (38:04)
 They were responsible for recovering the bodies
 There were mule skinners that were going to haul the bodies back
to the base (39:07)
 Before the bodies were taken to the base, they were taken
to the village where a worship service took place – the
Chinese offered their forms of prayer
When they went to the crash site they climbed the entire way (41:54)
o At one point they were walking on a very narrow ridge
o The hike was not short
o The plane was very flattened (42:37)
At one point on the hike, the sole of his shoe began to fall off
When he returned to the base, he was surprised that one of the doctors gave him
half a bottle of liquor (44:55)
o He did not drink, but his fellow comrades enjoyed it
o He was surprised to learn that he had become a Sergeant (45:16)
From that point, everything was “slow-going” for him
They were all buying their time before they were shipped home
After leaving China, he set sail for America on a ship (46:27)
o When they arrived at the base in California, there was a large buffet
waiting for the soldiers (46:37)
o When he was in India and China he missed fresh eggs, ice cream, and
some other foods (47:39)
When he remembers back to India and China, he remembers playing baseball
(48:50)
o One time he flipped over the catcher at home plate and he bruised his
shoulder
When he was in the training stage, he helped prepare 100 lb. bombs that were
dummy bombs used for practice (49:55)
o They were filled with sand (50:03)

�



o All he did was haul the bombs to the plane and another group would
handle the actual loading of the bombs
When he was in India and China, he was always at a distance from the actual war
(51:11)
o However, when he was in Burma he was actually in the Combat Zone but
was not where the fighting was going on
o At one point, some of the pilots were worried about flying their planes
without protection
 He was able to get boxes of hand grenades to give to the pilots
after having tea with a British supply man (53:02)
o When he was in Cox’s Bazaar, all of the soldiers were British
 At Cox’s Bazaar he was driving along the pavement when he
found out that he was in the wrong place (54:21)
The soldiers would sometimes have houseboys that would take care of their things
(55:16)

After the Service – (56:31)

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

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After he landed in the United States, the military tried to convince him to re-enlist
(56:45)
o He did not re-enlist because he wanted to go to college
When he got home on February 8, 1946 he was surprised to see a Christmas tree
on a small table (57:19)
o His parents had kept it up for him until he returned home
Before he had left for overseas he had developed a code system with his parents
so that they could know where he was (57:40)
He started going to school in the Fall of 1946 (58:46)
He worked with an engineering firm between the service and school
He went to North Central College in Naperville, Illinois (59:05)
o It was a church related college
o It is much different now than what it was when he went there
o He was one of the first G.I.’s to go to the college (59:39)
o He studied Engineering Science and he worked in land surveying
After he worked with the surveying company, he began working in public
administration (01:00:55)
He worked in Western Springs, Illinois as a City manager
He eventually became a City manager of Wyoming, Michigan (01:02:14)
o He was the first city manager for the city

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Jack Kennedy
World War II
39 minutes 28 seconds
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan at Butterworth Hospital on April 17, 1924
-Grew up in Grand Rapids
-Lived across from Blodgett Emergency
-Whenever it rained he would cut through the hospital on the way to
school
-Father ran a mattress factory
-During the Great Depression it was tough, but he was still able to make money
-Able to keep his business through the Great Depression
(00:01:38) Start of the War
-He was in high school when Pearl Harbor was bombed in 1941
-Followed news of the war in Europe and Asia prior to Pearl Harbor
-Remembers the news about Pearl Harbor being on every radio
-A lot of young men decided that they were going to enlist after Pearl Harbor
-He decided to just wait to get drafted
-Father wanted him to have some college education before being drafted
-Took him to Michigan State University and enrolled him there in January 1942
-Able to stay at Michigan State for one semester
(00:04:36) Getting Drafted
-Got drafted into the Army Air Force
-He wanted to be in the Army Air Force anyway, so it worked out in his favor
(00:04:55) Training
-Received some training in Salt Lake City, Utah after basic training was done
-Didn't enjoy basic training
-Had to go through it twice
-Once after he was processed, and again after he joined his unit in Utah
-Went to Bowman Field, Kentucky for basic training
-During basic training there was a focus on marching
-Wasn't difficult for him because he had been in the Reserve Officers' Training
Corps
-Not a lot of emphasis on discipline
-Went to Salt Lake City after training at Bowman Field
(00:08:10) Stationed in the United States
-He was assigned to be a medic in Salt Lake City
-Medic training consisted of learning how to treat wounds and unload wounded men from
aircraft
-It was pretty rigorous training, but good training
-Contracted pneumonia and was hospitalized for thirty one days
-After that returned to his original unit

�-Had a lot of time off when he was stationed at an Army base in Indiana
-Able to go home a lot
-By the time he got to Indiana he had been transferred to the regular Army as a
medic
(00:14:17) Deployment to the European Theatre
-On New Year's Eve he had some leave time in New York City
-Had a good time and stayed up all night
-It was the end of 1943 going into 1944
-Note: Based on later information, most likely end of 1944 going into
1945
-Sailed on a Liberty Ship
-The voyage over was not a good one
-The North Atlantic Ocean is not a good place to be in the winter
-Almost everyone got seasick
-Sailed as part of a convoy
-Saw a couple U-Boats that were chased away by their escorts
-Took only six days to cross the Atlantic Ocean
(00:17:00) Advancing through Europe
-Landed in France in early 1945
-His medical battalion was attached to the 3rd Army
-Joined them in France
-Plan was to follow Patton's 3rd Army
-It wasn't a good time
-A lot of time was spent walking
-Travelled by truck a little, but mostly advanced on foot
-Established field hospitals as they advanced through Europe
-His job was as a surgical technician
-Had to participate in operations
-It was interesting, but felt confining to not know how long they would be in an
area
-Didn't stay in the first area too long
-Moved across France and got to the German border
-Crossed the Rhine River into Germany
-From that point on they were walking
-Travelled across France on boxcars
-Didn't see much destruction from the Allied bombing campaign
-Some areas were damaged, but it wasn't as bad in the countryside and small
towns
(00:22:58) Field Hospitals
-The field hospitals were pretty simple
-A tent with a surgery cot for the badly wounded
-Basically, a place to stabilize men and then move them on to a bigger
hospital
-Later on could get set up in buildings and live and work in them
-Took over any buildings that were available
-Most buildings had been abandoned

�(00:24:45) Advancing through Germany
-Started seeing a lot more German civilians as they advanced through Germany
-They were friendly and didn't seem afraid of American soldiers
-Gave them medical aid if they needed it
-Saw concentration camps and prisoner of war camps
-Didn't see many displaced persons
(00:27:18) End of the War Pt. 1
-In Germany when Germany surrendered on May 8, 1945
-They were heading north towards the Baltic Sea
-Unit was most likely no longer attached to the 3rd Army
-Didn't see any Soviet or French forces
-Did see some British troops though
(00:28:31) General Patton
-Saw General Patton a few times
-Didn't hero worship him because he saw him as just another human being
-Thought he was a good military leader, but not a pleasant person to be around
(00:29:13) Concentration Camps &amp; Prisoner of War Camps Pt. 1
-Saw German prisoner of war camps and concentration camps
-Based on the living conditions, knew that the prisoners weren't treated well
(00:29:31) Occupation Duty in Germany &amp; End of War Pt. 2
-Stayed in Germany for months after the Germans surrendered
-Set up a field hospital in Germany
-In Germany when the Japanese surrendered on August 15, 1945
-They had originally been slated to go to the Pacific Theatre for the invasion of
Japan
-Heard about the atomic bombs being dropped while they were still in Germany
-The hospital they established in Germany was for treating American military personnel
-After the war was over they spent a lot of time just trying to find something to do
-Commanding officer told them that they couldn't just sit around
-He decided to learn how to ski, but basically had to teach himself
-Went to a German ski resort town and found a German instructor
-Paid him in cigarettes to teach him how to ski
-Had to deal with a language barrier
-Didn't travel around Europe after the war
(00:34:30) Concentration Camps &amp; Prisoner of War Camps Pt. 2
-Commanding officer was adamant that the men saw what the Nazis did at the death
camps
-It was not good
-Only corpses remained by the time he saw the concentration camps
-Survivors had most likely been evacuated
(00:35:38) Coming Home &amp; End of Service
-Left Europe in 1946
-Arrived in New Jersey and didn't stay there very long
-Sent to Camp Atterbury, Indiana and got discharged there
(00:36:35) Life after the War
-Went back to college at Michigan State University

�-Father insisted that he went back to school
-Studied business administration
-Father encouraged him to take insurance courses
-Worked for his father at the mattress factory and inherited it
-Retired from there in 1991
(00:37:58) Reflections on Service
-Believes that he got a lot of good things out of his service
-There were times during it that he wondered what they were doing in the war
-It wasn't all bad, but it wasn't all good either
-Got along well with the other men that he served with
-Doctors were good at what they did and stayed focus

�</text>
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                    <text>We blow our own horn!
VOLUME

XV

N O V E MB E R

1 9 9 0

NUMBER 11

Published by Recreation Therapy

HA P p y

Th~ Bugle has been in existance since 1976,
I have endeavored to give it an interesting
mix.
A mixture of: poetry, news, birthdays and
events,
I hope that when you read it-it's time
well spent.
Through 14 years of writing,
A joy it has been,
Distributing the patients news to all
our friends.
As each month is written changes
There will be.
I hope you enjoy it-is the
message from me.
Betty Cook

B I R T HD A Y

KENT COMMUNITY HOSPITAL - 750 Fuller N.E. Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503

�N O V E MB E R

November is a somber month
When leaves are dry and sereJ
It follows Octobers bright blue weather
The eleventh month of the year.
Its time to think of bygone daysJ
Of a summer long since pastJ
And when a sunny day comes along
We hope that they will last.
It's a time we hold important elections
And hope the voters make good selections.
The potatoes are dugJ corn is in the cribJ
Vegetables are canned and the mows full of hayJ
Enough to feed the barnyard folksJ
For many a cold winters dayJ
We can always hope the bad storms miss us.
When the newspapers begin telling usJ
Its just a few more weeks until Christmas.
Then there's Thanksgiving to look forward toJ
Its one of our favorite daysJ lots of food on the tableJ
Celebrated in many different ways,
So ends the month of November
Moy it usher in a beautiful December.
Anna Mergener
If wisdoms ways you'd wisely seek
Five things observe with care.
Of whom you speakJ to whom you speakJ and howJ and when and where.
Anna Mergener
Community Education C.lasses are great!
Mens Group - Global Studies - with Gerritt Ten Brink
People and Places and World News with Jane Hall. Great to have
· these folks on board.
Grand Valley State College-TR students who were with us: kathY DoyleJ
Sara MaximJ Stacy KnightJ Tonya GreenJ Lynn KlOO$traJ Kathy MeJdrumJ
Chris MileskyJ Traci TookerJ Amy RottmanJ Beth H1llJ Beth Carlise.

�BEAR FACTS
CryingJ teardropsJ screamingJ bawl;
DreamingJ slumberJ nappingJ rest;
SicknessJ coughingJ headacheJ illJ
Bear is always there.
ReadingJ whistleJ singingJ hums;
SecretsJ sharingJ whisperingJ cares;
PlayingJ bouncesJ hidingJ fun;
Bear is always there.
ChatterJ gossipJ jabberingJ talk;
TroubledJ frustrationsJ upsetJ blue;
GratefulJ comfortJ orotectingJ calm;
Bear is always there.

1
2
3
4
5
7
8

10

NOVEMBER BIRTHDAYS
Tinnie Tisdale
Jacquelyn Harris
William Robinson
Daniel Weber
Rose Kanady
Gladys Mohnke
Estelle Edney
Anna Weber
Geraldine Bailey
Delores Powers
Julia Soules
Armon Gilmour

SubduedJ defeatJ losingJ fail;
GrieL distress., mourningJ sad;
TiredJ wearyJ fatiqueJ beat;
Bear is always there.
TriumphsJ delightJ jokingJ joys;
TreasureJ cherishJ valueJ keep;
SuccessJ advanceJ movingJ plans;
Bear is always there.
Laura Block

Jessie Champion
Elizabeth Cowman
James Levine
Andrew Nezwek
Hazel Terveen
Bertha Liefbroer
Leroy Lucas
Ruby Stubbs
Viola Webb
Rachel Evans
Lottie Sadowski 102 years old
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ALL OF YOU!
13
15
19
20
22
24
25
26
27
30

�Change is Constant
There is one thing in Life that is Constant
And that is the thing we call "Change"J
For nothing in Life is "For Always"J ·
Not even a mountain range,,.
You look at a river todayJ
It will rise or fall on the morrow.
Water going over a dam
May bring Joy or sorrow ..
You watch the ocean roll in ..
Soon the tide will start going out ..
It's change after change in the waterJ
And change is what Life's all about ..
Time changes-each second goes past us.
The surh a new course in the sky ...
Each season has new things to offer . .
No need for you to ask why,,
A birth-a death-Life's renewalJ
An ending-so New can begin ..
A year becomes history-it passes ..
Humans suffer a loss or a win ..
Life is constantly changing,.
Each Pearson born new every day,.
And God in His infinite wisdom
SaysJ "changes are here to stay"
Clem H. Block

0

When we look for a Gem!
We call on Clem.
His poems we all seekJ
We findJ "They can't be beat!"
Best wishes to Clem todayJ
And everyday along the wayJ
Our best wishes to youJ
In everything you do.
Betty Cook
Clem will be sharing his poetry with us on November 19.
We look forward to his sharing is poetry with us.

�HEAVEN'S GROCERY STORE
I was walking down life's highway a long time ago, One day I
saw a sign that read Heaven's Grocery Store. As I got a little
closerJ the door came open wideJ and when I came to myself I was
standing inside.
I was a host of angels. They were standing everywhere. One handed
me a basket and saidJ "MY childJ shop with care." Everything a
Christian needed was in that Grocery StoreJ and all you couldn't
carryJ you could come back the next day for more.
FirstJ I got some Patience. Love was in the same row. Further down
was UnderstandingJ you need that everywhere you go, I got a box or
two of Wisdom and a bag or two of Faith. I just couldn't miss the
Holy Spirit it was all over the place.
I stopped to get some Strength and Courage to help me run this race.
By then my basket was getting fullJ but I remembered I needed some
Grace.
I did'nt forget SalvationJ for SalvationJ that was free. I tried to
get enough of that to save both you and me. Then I started up to the
counter to pay my grocery billJ for I thought I had everything to do
my Master's will.
As I went up the aisle I saw Prayer and I just had to put that inJ
for I knew when I stepped outsideJ I would run right into sin. Peace
and Joy were plentifulJ they were on the last shelf. Song and Praises
were hanging near so I just helped myself.
Then I said to the Angel"NowJ how much do I owe?" He just smiled
and saidJ "Just take them everywhere you go." Again I smiled at him
and said, "How muchJ nowJ do I really owe?" He smiled again and
saidJ "MY ChildJ Jesus paid your bill a long time ago,"
"God sometimes puts in the dark to prove that he is light."
&lt;Anonymous)
Submitted by Connie Deason

..

�A TRADITIONAL INDIAN GATHERING
The POW WOW
The purpose of the pow-wow are manyJ but they are mainly held to
bring families together to share artJ craftsJ danceJ customsJ foodJ and
to renew old friendships, FurtherJ a pow-wow allows the young to
learn to danceJ become familiar with regalia and to provide an opport-unitY to learn from their elders.
Historically in MichiganJ these gatherings were held in springJ summer
and early fall.
The dance arena is set up with the opening to the east, It is the area
around the drums. The opening is to the east because Indian people look
to recognize the beginnings of all things,
Grand entry is the first dance of the day, Grand entry is a time to create
a sacred circle to symbolize the circle of life. The participants ask
our Grandfather and our ancestors to witness this physical testimony of
belief and continuation of old ways, Because both physical and spiritual
attention is focused on this eventJ those who enter the area first have
a great place of honor and responsibility,
Grand entry begins with the carry in of our flags, These flags are
carried in by veteransJ often times combat veterans. The Head Veteran
Dancer will be among these men. It is his responsibility to arrange for
other veterans to carry flags and for retrieval of any fallen eagle feather~
during the pow-wow. He also represents all Indian people who have
given their lives for our country,
Follwing the flag carriers are the two dancers who have been chosen to
lead the dances. This man and woman are expected to know all the dances
and songs, They must be able to dance any dance that is called for.
The traditional women dancers follow the male fancy dancers. Great
dignity and pride belongs to these women dancers. Our women are the
life-givers. They are like Mother EarthJ so when a traditional woman
dancesJ each step maintains a connection with the earthJ allowing her
and Mother Earth to be one.
The women fancy _or shawl dancers are the last to enter the dance arena.
This dance depicts the first butterflies that the Creator placed on earth.
The shawl spread while dancing look like butterfly wings,

�(INDIAN TRADITION-POW-WOW CONTINUED)
The drum is the heartbeat of the Indian .Nations. It is to be looked upon
with respect, The term "drum" is used to refer to the group of singers who
sing around the drum as well as the instrument itself, Each drum has a
lead singer who leads the songs and is in charge of who may or may not sit
at the drum.
During the pow-wow you may see that a drum has been covered or that only
one singer is sitting at the drum, The drum is never left unattended if
not covered. We believe that during the dance the drum represents the
heartbeat of Mother Earth and is the central harmony of the people at the
gathering~ therefore if the drum is not in use it is either covered or
attended to by one singer. No one it to play or hit it.
Unlike most musicJ our songs are not written down. We learn them from
our elders and pass them down to our children, Like all other musicJ our
songs can express loveJ deathJ joyJ despairJ and victory, To those
unfamiliar with our cultureJ the songs may sound strange and seem not have
a meaning or pattern. However the songs are very structured and follow a
pattern. Throughout the pow-wow you may be asked to stand for the honor
song, These songs are sung at the request of individuals. The Masters
of Cermonies will explain who has requested the song and why,
The majoriety of the songs used are called "vocables",
This means that
instead of actual wordsJ a series of sounds are being used. The sounds
are not randomly reproducedJ but are used in precisely as they were rassed
down. Most of the sound is from the back of the throat and nasal in tone.
A vocable is formed by the tongue with very little lip movement.
There are a variety of dances that will take place during the pow-wow.
Most of the dances will be Inter-Tribal dances. These are the dances
anyone may participate. Speciality dances include honor dancesJ two
stepJ snakeJ round danceJ and the crow hop to name a few. The Masters
of Cermonies will announce the type of dance.
The give-away is an important part of the pow-wow. The give-away is a
way of showing our appreciation to the pow-wow participates and others
for their coming and joining our celebration of life. It is a way of
teaching our children the traditional way of sharingJ recognizingJ
and honoring others.
MICHINEMACKINONG
Native American Culture
_,....r--t,
Marquette Museum of Ojibwa Culture c:__..::]
_ __
St. IgnaceJ Michigan
.

-------------------------------------------------

�THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES
When human twins were born to Spirit Woman1 she relied on the animals to
help her. The animals loved the children and cared for them.
Wolf hunted for them. Bear gave his fur to keep them warm. Raccoon washed
their food. Beaver and Muskrat washed them. Birds sang lullabies and Dog
watched over them. The twins had only to cry out and Dog would become alert.
discover the source of irritation and set it right or call someone who could.
If the babies needed fresh moss to keep them comfortable1 Dog went to
Beaver and Muskrat. If they needed food he went to wolf for meat and Deer
for milk. He asked Spider to help keep the flies away, And he1 himself would
jump and snap at the flies until the babies laughed. If the babies were lonel~
he would do his best tricks to make them laugh. With his duties finished he
would set down beside them until he was needed again.
After a long time the animals became worried1 the children did not run and
Play like their own young, Summonded by Bear1 they gathered to discuss the
problem and to find a way to correct it.
Wolf arose. "They are not wea K&gt;They eat much meat."
Deer agreed. Every day they drank her milk. Beaver and Muskrat told how
the children could wave their arms and legs at bathing time. Indeed they
often splashed until everyone was wet and Beaver and M:Js:krat had lost their
patience. They could also wiggle as Fish had taught them.
Win-a-bo-shoo addressed the animals. "You have done well. In fact you done
so well that the children never have to do anything for themselves. All
babies need excerise. They need to reach for things they cannot touch1
as later they will reach out in another way, Let me see what I can do."
Win-a-bo-shoo traveled far to the west1 to the land of high mountains
where cloudy peaks reach to the sky, It was here that he spoke to the Great
Spir it. Since he was the Creator of the twins arid had been watching them he
knew what had been watching them he knew what had to be done.
At his instruction1 Win-a-bo-shoo searched the slopes of the mountains
until he found many tiny sparkling stones, He collected the blue1 green1
red and yellow stones and placed them in a Pile that gleamed through the
clouds. He sat down beside the pile and watched them for awhile. He soon
became bored and restless. He began tossing the stones1 one after another
into the air1 catching them as they fell back to earth. He tossed up a
handful and caught the stones as they fe 11 back to earth. He tossed them up
again1 expecting to catch them again. But no stones fell into his hand. He
looked up, The stones were changing into winged creatures of many colors and

�(Butterflies continued)
shapes fluttering here and there coming to rest on Win-a-bo-shoo.
Soon he was surrounded by clouds of shifting color. These were the
first butterflies.
Following Win-a-bo-shoo they flew to the twinsJ who crowing with Pleasut
waved their arms and legs at the hovering butterflies. The butterflies
always stayed just beyond the grasp of the children.
With the butterflies for toys to chase the babies soon began to crawl ar
walk and finally run after them.
With the help of the animals the human twins grew up and in the course c
time more children were born to the Anishnabeg,
RIDDLE
TAKE A NUMBER

from 1 to 9
add 5
multiply by 50
add 1740
subtract the year you were born
RESULT: First digit is the number you chose
Next 2 digits are your age.
Submitted by Dena Korfker

It seems rather odd writing an article to let you know about myself
when I'm nearing the end of my internship,
As you know~ I'm a student at Grand Valley State University majoring
in Therapeutic Recreation. I plan on graduating in December with a
Bachelors degree and would like to continue working with the older
population.
.
lk.
I've met so many interesting patients here and have enJ9yed ta ing
with youJ doing different activities with vouJ and getting to kn9w
you. I've thoroughly enjoyed the time I've spent at Kent Community
Hospital and all of the people.
Cathy Brandli

------------------------------------------------------------------..

~

..

RESIDENTS OF THE MONTH OF NOVEMBER:
AND
ALFRED ANDERSON
Best wishes to you!

FRANK

ANTHONY

Elsie's Gang had a great time recently celebrating Rosa
Haynes Birthday, It •:as a lot of fun and a real surprise .
for Ro~a. We're·glad Elsie is back and doing well following
her surgery, We appreciate you Elsie!

•

�I

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                <text>eng</text>
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            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
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&#13;
Indiana resident and entrepreneur, D. J. Angus produced an extensive photographic record of his work and travels throughout the U.S. and Mexico, during the late 1920s -1940s. The images of manmade and natural phenomenon often reflect his interest in engineering projects that include dams, bridges, mines, power plants, cliff dwellings, and quarries. Over 10,000 still images from 1903-1966 document Angus’ family, friends, business, and travels. Over 12,000 ft. of 16mm movie film complete this collection.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/437"&gt;D.J. Angus Photographs (RHC-04)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>RHC-04</text>
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              <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/437"&gt;D.J. Angus photographs and films, RHC-04&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>Kentucky. Dix Dam</text>
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            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Dix Dam, completed in 1927, was constructed across the Dix River three miles upstream from its confluence with the Kentucky River. It was the world's largest stone-filled dam.</text>
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