452 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/520ceaaaf63b47bb50ed8a7ae835a409.pdf 1a8fd91418fbba0d69f3de3aad9f4a33 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Omar López Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 8/23/2012 Biography and Description English Omar López was Minister of Information for the Young Lords. He was born in Mexico and first came to Chicago in 1958, settling in the Humboldt Park Neighborhood where he has lived ever since. He first met some Young Lords in Lincoln Park when they were hanging out on the streets as a local Puerto Rican street gang. When the Young Lords transformed themselves officially on September 23, 1968 into a human rights movement, he saw them once again. This time those same young men were providing security for José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez and Fred Hampton (of the Black Panther Party) who were speaking together at Loop Jr. College where Omar a student and fighting for student rights and bilingual education. Mr. López joined the Young Lords in 1969. In 1973, he founded the Mexican Teachers Organization.Mr. López continues to work actively on behalf of Latino and immigrant rights. In 2006, he ran as a Green Party candidate for the House of Representatives in Illinois, 4th District. That same year, on March 10, he convened one of the largest mass demonstrations on behalf of working class immigrant rights in U.S. history. �Mr. López continues to be proactive in the Humboldt Park area, with immigrant rights, the Latin American Defense Organization (LADO), and the Young Lords. He is the Executive Director of CALOR, a clinic that especially serves Latinos affected by HIV/AIDS and other diseases. Spanish Omar López era el Ministro de Información para los Young Lords. Nació en México y llego a chicago en 1958, estableándose en el vecindario de Humboldt Park donde sigue viviendo. El primero conoció alguien de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park cuando estaban en las calles como una ganga puertorriqueña. López los vio de nuevo cuando los Young Lords se transformaron, oficialmente en el 23 de Septiembre de 1958, de in ganga a un movimiento de los derechos humanos. Esta vez los jóvenes estaban protegiendo a José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez y Fred Hampton (del Black Panther Party) quien estaban hablando juntos en Loop Jr. College donde López estaba peleando por los derechos de los estudiantes y educación bilingüe. López se hizo parte de los Young Lords en 1969. En 1973 el fundo el Mexican Teachers Organization. Señor López continúa trabajando por los derechos de Latinos y emigrantes. En 2006, el corrió por el Green Party como candidato para la Case de Representantes de Illinois, del 4th distrito. El 10 de Marzo del mismo año el reunió una de la más grandes demonstraciones, de gente que luchaban por los derechos de los inmigrantes de clase obrera, en la historia de los Estados Unidos. López continua siendo proactivo en la aria de Humboldt Park, derechos para inmigrantes, la “Latin American Defense Organization (LADO), y los Young Lords. El es el director ejecutivo de CALOR, una clínica para Latinos que han sido afectados por HIV/AIDS u otras enfermedades. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Okay, Omar, if you can give me your full name and your date of birth and where you were born. OMAR LOPEZ: Okay. My name is Omar Lopez. I was born in San Luis Potosí, Mexico. I was born on February the second, 1945. JJ: Okay. And then where is San -- OL: San Luis Potosí, San Luis Potosí, is a central state in the Republic of Mexico. It’s about a four hour drive north of Mexico City, so it’s right in the heart of the Mexican Republic. JJ: What is it? Is it a rural area or? OL: I was born in n San Luis Potosí, so it’s already established city, but it was established because there was a lot of mines during the Spaniards, a lot of mines. So that’s why it was established there. JJ: Gold mines or -- OL: It was silver mines. JJ: Silver mines. OL: Silver mines. [00:01:00] And so that’s how San Luis became a city. That’s where it was the cabecera, the head of the municipality. When I was born, I seem to remember that the population was like three quarters of a million people, but now it’s much, much bigger. But at that time, my family had moved into one of those, they call ’em colonias, the neighborhood that was at the fringe of the city. I mean, I could walk two blocks and I was already out in the open field. And 1 �when I look at it, in retrospect, that was a transition between country and city. People were still farmers, but they were making the transition between becoming farmers and becoming city dwellers. So a lot of the -- I [00:02:00] used to see a lot of wagons being pulled by mules. They had alfalfa and other things. So it was very interesting, very beautiful. As a matter of fact, from what I remember, beautiful transitional neighborhood. It was really nice. My father was a railroad man. JJ: What was his name? OL: My father’s name was Facundo López Martinez. JJ: Okay. And he was a railroad man? OL: He was a railroad man. He worked in the railroad, all of his adult life. I think he started probably about 19 years of age, immediately after the revolution. He was born in 1892. So when the Mexican Revolution started, he was 18. So he was recruited right away and he was recruited by the government. So he was from the state of Guanajuato. And the troops that he was with traveled the way to Acapulco [00:03:00] Guerrero, state of Guerrero, way south. But then at that time, a group of them were not happy. So they all deserted. They deserted from the federal troops and they joined the Zapatistas. JJ: So he deserted? OL: He deserted with -- JJ: And joined the Zapatistas? OL: And they joined the Zapatistas. And he did that. Of course, that group, the objective was to get back into Mexico City. They worked themselves back into 2 �Mexico City. So he saw part of, he participated in the Mexican Revolution, but since a very young age, he became a railroad person. He worked at the railroads until the day he died. That neighborhood again, was also populated by a lot of railroad people because San Luis being right in the center of Mexico, at the time [00:04:00] the whole network of trains, they all practically had to go through that city. So it was a railroad town. And consequently, it was also a labor town. Their union was very strong there, and there was always fights and things. But that was the neighborhood where I grew up. JJ: And your mom, what was her name? OL: My mother’s name was Maria Rosario Zacarias Vida de Lopez. JJ: Vida de Lopez? OL: Well, I mean, she became Vida de when my father passed away. So most of my life I knew her as Vida de Lopez. JJ: They used it -- OL: Yeah, that’s a full, that’s like the official thing when you, but her name was Maria Rosario. She came from a family. Her last name, maiden name was Zacarias. And [00:05:00] Zacarias is kind of strange last name. So when I started asking, it turns out that there probably somewhere way in the back, it was a Lebanese, it’s a Lebanese last name. So then my mother’s father was a-- JJ: His name? OL: My grandfather. My grandfather was a-- JJ: What was his name? 3 �OL: His name was Jesus Zacarias. Jesus Zacarias. He was an administrator for one of the haciendas in San Luis. So my mother grew up in one of those haciendas. JJ: And what is a haciendas? [00:05:30] OL: An hacienda, that was sort of like the unit. It was the property that landowners over the time had. And then they had workers, agricultural workers, and they cultivated, I guess different things. And from what I [00:06:00] understand, the hacienda was called Jesus Maria. They grew a lot of maguey for mezcal and I assume, probably not tequila, but mezcal and other crops. But my grandfather was just the administrator. He was a good administrator. And so my mother grew up in Jesus Maria San Luis Potosi. And then she moved to a little town called Río Laja in the state of Guanajuato, which is right next to San Luis. And it happened that the train that my father used to work on, used to pass by Río Laja. How my father started eyeing my mother, she was, must’ve been about sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, something like that. And that’s how their romance started. So eventually they got married, [00:07:00] and that’s how we got here. I’m the last of eight in the family. There’s three males. JJ: What are some of their names, your siblings? OL: So we’re three males and five females. So the males are Hector Xavier, Efraim, Obed, Hazael, and myself, Omar, my sisters are Deborah, Priscilla, and Noemi. JJ: Are any of them here or any? OL: One of them still lives in Chicago, and two of them never lived in the United States. They stayed in Mexico. And that’s where they are. They’re still living in Mexico. 4 �JJ: And what are they involved in? What type of work do they do? OL: Well, actually they just became housewives. They got married. One of my sisters did live in the United States for a while because my brother-in-law was a doctor, a medical doctor, and came to Maryland to [00:08:00] specialize in neuropsychology, neurosiquiatría, neuropsychiatry. And then he went back. And that’s like in the very early 1960s and ever since then, they stayed in Mexico. The other sister married, my brother-in-law was like an accountant. So he always worked in either banks or what they called seguridad social, social security, in Mexico until he retired. JJ: Okay. And so you came to Chicago what year? OL: I came to Chicago in 1958 to stay. We came in 1957, stayed for six months. We went back, that was in 1957. We came in February, 1957 for the first time, just for vacation. I had my oldest brother and my oldest sister were already here, and they wanted us to come and visit. And since my father was [00:09:00] a railroad man. JJ: And when did they arrive, your oldest brother? OL: Oh, my brother was the first one that came to Chicago in 1949. He was 19 years of age, and he came illegally. JJ: Do you know where he settled? OL: He settled, oh, the address that I remember was the 1500 block south of Harding in Illinois. Now it’s a primarily African-American community. It’s in North Lawndale. It’s in North Lawndale area. That’s the one address I remember. JJ: And you were saying your father was a railroad man? 5 �OL: Yeah, because my father was a railroad man we could travel free. He would get passes, railroad passes. So we used to take the train from San Luis Potosi and we ended up in Chicago. We didn’t even have to get off the train. So well in San Antonio we had to-- JJ: From there to here, it was the same train? OL: Yeah, all we had to do was transfer in San Antonio. But it was -- JJ: [00:10:00] Did you need documentation or anything like that? OL: Oh yeah. But when you cross Laredo, then you had to go through customs. JJ: Okay. And that was set up? OL: Yeah. JJ: Okay. All right. OL: So that was in February of 1957. We went back to Mexico in August of 1957, and we didn’t think we were coming back. But then my father passed away in January of 1958. And when my brothers that were already living in Chicago, for the funeral, they decided that I had to come with them. That I’d be better off if I came with them. So I arrived here in January of 1958. JJ: Okay. OL: Yeah. Ever since then I’ve been here in Chicago. JJ: Where did you live at? OL: When we came, it was the very first time is 1829 North Humboldt Boulevard. JJ: Okay. OL: That was in 1957. JJ: Humboldt Park. 6 �OL: Yeah, Humboldt Park. I’ve always been a Humboldt Park resident [00:11:00] since, ever since I came from Mexico, 1958. JJ: Since 1958. Okay. Now what were you doing just before you got here? What type of work? OL: Before I came to Chicago? JJ: Yeah. OL: I was a student. I was in grammar school. JJ: Okay, you were in grammar school. OL: In grammar school, yeah. JJ: All right, so now you’re living in Humboldt Park at that time. OL: We came to the Humboldt Park. JJ: How was the community? OL: The community in Humboldt Park was all primarily white. We were probably one of two families that were Mexican. There was a lot of Norwegians. As a matter of fact, the building where we came to live was owned by man, I think his last name was [Skomba?], but he was of Norwegian descent. On Humboldt Boulevard, right around the 1600 block there was sort of like the YMCA was Norwegian-American YMCA, but it was just like an association, youth association. [00:12:00] And there was a lot of Ukrainians and Polish people that I remember. JJ: So right around that area. OL: Yeah. JJ: I mean, what about Western and in that area? 7 �OL: All of that was white. JJ: Was white. OL: All of that was white in 1958. JJ: In 1958. OL: In 1958, all of that was white. One day I went to school, there was no bilingual education, so I should have been going to high school when I came from Mexico, but they put me in fifth grade because I didn’t understand English. So see, they used to equate not speaking English with being ignorant. So they said, “Well, this guy doesn’t speak English. He probably belongs in a lower grade,” but in areas such as like math, I was way ahead of all of the students. But the school was all white. There was a couple of students that were-- JJ: What school was [00:13:00] it? OL: Yates. Yates Elementary in Richmond, in Wabansia. I went there and I graduated from there. And since they put me back several grades in 1958, I went to summer school to at Wells High School to get double promoted so I could catch up. And then by the time I got to high school-- JJ: Was that common with people doing that? OL: Well, a lot of the guys that were going to summer school was because they were failing. I was going there because I needed to take additional courses so I could move up. But it is interesting because that’s where I began to have a little more contact with Puerto Ricans when I went to summer school at Wells, and they were coming from other schools. 8 �JJ: So it was a white community, but the summer school was full of Spanish speakers. OL: They had a lot of Spanish speakers, but they were coming from a different area. They were coming from the southeast end [00:14:00] because that’s where the families were around Chicago Avenue, Ashland, Noble. That way. JJ: Okay. That was Chicago Noble in that area, right? OL: Yeah. Okay. That’s where they came from. I mean, I came from the other extreme, which is Humboldt Park, but that’s where I started to have contact with-- JJ: This is in 1958, so they’re coming from Chicago and Noble around 1958. OL: Nineteen-fifty eight, 1959, right, 1960. So that was my first contact with Puerto Ricans. Well, no, actually, there was one student in Yates that was Puerto Rican, but I think he was born in Chicago and didn’t speak a lot of Spanish. They put me in the same room with him because he was supposed to help me translate, but he didn’t speak Spanish very good. So it was not much help, but it was nice to have been with him. His name was [Joe Ortiz?]. [00:15:00] But yes, so summer school was sort of the first contact that I had with Puerto Rican, 1959, 1960, 1961. And of course, when I went to high school the first year, then there was really a lot more Latino Mexicans and Puerto Ricans there. So that was in essence, the group that I started to hang around. JJ: So the neighborhood is changing over now slowly, right, into Latino or because it’s Humboldt Park. I mean, today is like the heart of, or not today, but not so long ago, it was the heart of the -- OL: The Puerto Rican community. 9 �JJ: So it starts to change in the 1960s, is that what? OL: In the 1960s it starts changing because, and the movement was coming from the east, coming West. JJ: So from the [Main?] and that coming west. OL: Right, right. [00:16:00] I think that when they built Carl Sandberg Village, a lot of ’em went to Lincoln Park. A lot of the families that were displaced, and a lot of ’em went towards Humboldt Park and this area. So I think that was that kind of shift, demographic shift going on because of urban renewal. So again, high school was where I began to have a lot more contact with Puerto Ricans. JJ: Now, was there any youth groups among the ethnic groups, the white ethnic communities? OL: There were, especially when I got into high school. Well, when I was in grammar school, we used to get some of this youth groups incursions. I was-- [00:17:00] just came from Mexico. I was brand new. I didn’t understand the concept of a gang, but that’s what it was. Gangs were coming into the neighborhood, and they were mostly from the areas of Western and Chicago Avenue. There was a group that was called Chi-West, and they had cars. So they would come into the neighborhood and harass some of the young guys. And since I was totally alien to the concept of gangs, and I used to tell the guys, “Come on, let’s go at ’em.” And they were afraid. I couldn’t understand why. Even in high school, I wanted to get people together too, because there was, in high school, there were more gangs that were mostly Italian and they were Polish, also. JJ: In Wells? 10 �OL: No, Wells was summer school. When I went to high school at Tuley High School, Tuley High School. And that’s where they were [00:18:00] more youth. They were Italians and they were rough. But because at the time the Puerto Rican youth was just beginning to select structure itself, also in groups. And then that’s where several groups began to grow, at least in my area. In my area, around the early 1960s, we used to have the Latin Angels. That was one of them. And for a while, there was the-- JJ: Latin Angels was a Puerto Rican group. OL: There was a Puerto Rican group, the Latin Angels, Puerto Rican, and then there was the Trojans. They were there. There was one group that came and went there. It was called the [409ers?]. JJ: So they were beginning to form? OL: Yeah, to form. JJ: Because actually, I believe the Latin Angels were even before the Kings at the-- OL: Oh, yeah, yeah. The Latin Angels were [00:19:00] in the early 1960s. Early 1960s. And I used to know a lot of them because-- JJ: And they were on Division Street. That was their-- OL: Yeah, that’s how I came in contact with ’em, because I got a job at a hot dog stand and that hot dog stand on Division and Maplewood used to be sort of like the focus, even before the Latin Angels, the Puerto Ricans that I began to hang around with were from that corner. And it was like from that hot dog stand that we would take off to go into fights. Either we went to Humboldt--Division and Kedzie or anywhere else, but we used to get together. And after the fight, that’s 11 �where we used to come back right there. So that hot dog stand. So I knew a lot of them. JJ: We used to go there because we were friends with the Latin Angels. OL: [00:20:00] Angels. Okay. Well, I think that also my first contact or my first knowledge of the Young Lords-- JJ: Because actually all the Latino gangs were kind of together at the time. There was a more racial-- OL: Yeah, because I don’t know, you remember that the YMCA used to bring us all together at the Duncan YMCA? JJ: Exactly. OL: All the groups used to come in there. There wasn’t that kind of friction that there is today. But the first contact I had with my knowledge of the Young Lords was also through a hillbilly. Kenny Smith was his name, and Kenny Smith was white. And one time we were driving around Western, I had a 1952 Mercury, four door. Four doors was important because they could come in and out quick. And we’re driving around Western and Rice, [00:21:00] Chopin school, and that’s where the Chi-West people were, Chi-West. And of course, they yelled at us and they chased us. And Kenny Smith was all offended. I says, “Oh man, let’s go get my friends.” He said “Who are your friends?” And I said, “Well, the Young Lords here on,” he wanted me to drive him to Armitage and just east of Halsted, there was a playground burning. That’s where they hanging around. He wanted me to go get ’em. That was sort my first knowledge of the Young Lords. But on this 12 �side, it was the Latin Angels, this where they used that corner. They used to come around that hot dog stand. JJ: And then Levitt and Schiller, you had the Kings, where they started. OL: Well, then later on, the Levitt and Schiller was where the Kings really were born. Levitt and Schiller. It was right next to a school. JJ: Wasn’t there a group called the Young Centers? OL: [00:22:00] They were the Young Sinners. JJ: Was the Young Sinners, right? OL: Yeah, yeah. Kings. Yeah. Then there was Hispanic Lords. JJ: Spanish Lords were further up there. OL: Yeah. JJ: So they kind of all formed around the same time. And they all got along at that time. OL: At the time, yeah. At the time, there was not a problem between gangs. And I think that the fact was that families were moving into those neighborhoods, so they were brand new. And what I always say is that the young people were the ones that were carving out safe spaces for Latino-- for their families to move in, because the adults, the parents, they were busy working, but the youth were the ones that really had the scrimmages with the other ethnic gangs. And that was, I see it as a process of carving out the neighborhoods for [00:23:00] for families. And that was going on everywhere. Everywhere where Latino families were moving in. And you could go back and see it happening around 55th and Emerald. You had the Emerald Knights over there, and you had, there was 13 �another one, the Latin Souls. It happened in Lincoln Park with the Young Lords, the Black Eagles. JJ: Flaming Arrows. OL: Right. Paragons. The (inaudible). JJ: (inaudible) OL: So those were the youth groups that were, in essence, whether they knew it or not, they were once carving out those neighborhoods for the families and on this side, things like the Latin Angels, and then later the Latin Kings and the other groups that organized. JJ: So when you say carving out, [00:24:00] why did they have to carve out? I mean, what? OL: Well, for example, the displacement that was going on around the city through urban renewal was really pushing or really creating a shift in the population. So Latino families were moving into neighborhoods, not because they wanted to, you know, but because they had to. And it usually had to move into neighborhoods that were already an ethnic neighborhood. In the Humboldt Park area, I think it was primarily Polish, Ukrainian, Italian. And those ethnic groups were already established. But when the Latino families, in this case, the Puerto Rican families begin to move in and start pushing, then the friction begins. And so then you will hear a lot of stories from young, well, today will be old people, but when they were young that they had [00:25:00] problems just going to school. They always talk about, “I had to run to school and run back home.” But that’s what was happening. And so even some of the guys that had to run to school 14 �and run back, at one point or another got together and they formed their groups to defend themselves and in that defense that’s when they were beginning to carve out that neighborhood for themselves. JJ: And what about organization wise and businesses, when did they start coming in? OL: Division Street was really hopping in the 1960s. By 1963, 1964, I mean, you had Puerto Ricans living, at least from Damen all the way to California. That was so-[00:26:00] practically all Puerto Rican. And because there was that wave of new Puerto Rican families coming into the city. So they were moving into neighborhoods like Division Street. And so because of that, there was a lot of mercados. There was a lot of grocery stores on the corners, and they were real good businessmen. They really bloomed in terms of business, furniture stores, clothing stores, jewelry--jewelry stores. I mean, you had all of it on Division Street, [carons?], social clubs, so all along Division Street, you had that. And you had people on the street every day, all day, twenty-four hours a day. I mean, it was really a street that was busy and hopping, and a lot of things were going on Division Street. So there was a strong business community, [00:27:00] a strong business community that I began to see. And again, looking at it in retrospect, right around the middle of 1960s, late 1960s, a lot of those businessmen that were successful, they began to go back to Puerto Rico. So then they began to, as they left, they created a vacuum in the community in terms of business. And so the mercados were beginning to disappear and access to food and things was beginning to change. Then you had to go to National, because that was the big 15 �supermarket. Then what we have Jewel today, that was National then. But that was a vacuum then. JJ: So why do you think they left? I mean, at that time? OL: I think that because they were very successful, they were all businessmen, and they knew [00:28:00] how to save. And when they were ready, they moved with everything. A lot of them opened up their businesses in Puerto Rico. JJ: Because that was their intention, basically. OL: Their intention, I think, was, yeah, to come, make money and then go back and they did. A lot of ’em stayed, but Division Street was not the same once all of this group of businessmen began to pick up and go. I think it suffered economically, the community suffered economically because of that. The money wasn’t staying in the community anymore. The money was going up, people had to shop elsewhere. But I think it was very strong economically. There were jobs, Puerto Ricans were working, they were all employed, but at the same time that the adults were moving in and finding jobs and struggling, and [00:29:00] the young people were going to school, what I said, carving out the neighborhood with the scrimmages, with the other ethnic gangs, and saw the relationship between the youth and the police was the one that was really tense. And we adults too, but not adults as much, because they were at work eight hours a day. But the young people were on the streets all the time, and they were getting harassed constantly by the police. I insist that during those days, the police department didn’t have the requirements that they have today to become a policeman. And so a lot, the former gang members from other ethnic groups 16 �became policemen. So they weren’t going to be very nice to Puerto Rican gangs when the friction was still going on between their former gang and the new gangs that were popping up in the neighborhood. So the harassment was really intense [00:30:00] everywhere. Everywhere. It wasn’t just on Division, it was on the South Side. It was in Lincoln Park. So the young people were really developing this very antagonistic relationship with the police department. And then you had the adults, they had their organizations too. JJ: What were some of these groups? OL: You talk about the Los Caballeros de San Juan, [Posta Boricua?], (Spanish), the Catholic Church was pretty active then. So you had the Cardinals Committee for Spanish speaking people. So the adults were working at establishing not legitimate, but acceptable organizations. And they were working at establishing the [00:31:00] community as an acceptable community to the city government, for example. And I think that the adults, all the work that they did, all the organizing that they did paid off. And even they had two factions going at the time. The [Posta Boricua?] was on one side, the Puerto Rican Congress and others were on the other side, but they decided to come together. The Caballeros de San Juan used to have their parade every year, but they came together and they decided to have one parade downtown. And for them, that was a symbol of acceptance and credibility before the eyes of the entire city. So they succeeded. They were successful in that sense. They established that, and they had in 1966, their first Puerto Rican parade [00:32:00] downtown. But it happened that at the same time, the youth were being harassed and all this 17 �friction was building up that when there was an incident between the policeman and a young man that was shot, I think he was shot in the foot or something like that. Everything blew up. And people couldn’t explain that. Why -- I mean, they just had to parade downtown and now they’re having a riot. And it was that because it was two parallel developments in the community; the youth that was being harassed by the police, the youth that was fighting, having scrimmages to, like I said, carving out a safe space for the families, and the adults that were going to work, trying to establish conventional organizations. It was parallel. And the youth, when they exploded, they exploded. They were a lot more impactful in the community. So in 1966, [00:33:00] after a Sunday, I believe it was June 14, the riots began. JJ: The youth got shot you said? OL: He was shot, the police -- JJ: Aracelis or something? OL: Aracelis -- I forgot last name. I’ll remember in a minute. Cruz. Aracelis Cruz. So police began, I mean the people began to protest what had happened there. And since everybody was out because of the Parade and because it was a celebration, there was a lot of people out in the street. And I think the police not being experienced seeing crowds like this, they called in the K-9 unit. So they brought out the dogs, and I think the dogs did bit some people, and [00:34:00] that was the end. I think Puerto Ricans, and I think other Latinos, have some very specific ideas about their self. And I think if a human being strikes you, it’s understandable. There’s another one, you’re fighting and someone hits you, but 18 �when someone with a dog comes and has the dog bite you and attack you, it’s a dog. You’re being attacked by dog. I think that had a lot to do. Bringing the dogs out had a lot to do with how the community understood how they were being seen by the police. And I think that was very offensive. Very offensive to the community. But again, I think it was the youth that kept three days [00:35:00] and three nights of rioting, not the adults. The adults were trying to calm everything down. The established organizations were on the street every day, like the Caballeros San Juan. They were out trying to calm things down. The youth, I mean, this I think was the first time that the youth could strike back at that entity that always harassed them without having to be arrested or without paying the consequences. So the bottles and the stones and the sticks and everything -- that they flew for three days and three nights. And the youth being very mobile, you could see them on Maple and Division now, and two minutes later, they were three blocks away. And so it was that kind of movement. It was obvious that it was the youth. And I think from the [00:36:00] East side, Damen and Division, there was a group there that kept it going. But then on the West side, let’s say from California and Division, there was another group, and I think that was the beginning of the Kings, the Latin Kings, were -- there was a group that kept it going on this side. So that happened three days and three nights. And I think that affected also a lot, affected the businessmen a lot. JJ: How did it affect the business? 19 �OL: Well, I think that they had a very negative reaction. And I don’t know, maybe thinking about it, maybe that’s one thing that helped to make a decision to move back to Puerto Rico because this was 1966. JJ: Because some of their businesses were destroyed. OL: And I think that that was one negative aspect of the riot. Of any riot. Any riot. [00:37:00] You can understand striking at authorities that harass you and oppress you, but then a line is crossed where you begin to loot businesses, break windows and steal from the businesses. And I think that’s the other extreme of the riot. JJ: How did the city respond? Mayor Richard J. Daley was the mayor. OL: Yeah. Well, Mayor Daley, he wasn’t ready -- the city wasn’t ready for a Puerto Rican riot. They were ready for an African-American riot. That’s what they were expecting when the summer came, but this was June, so they weren’t ready. And of course, they did the regular thing of sending police and trying to find the leadership that would calm things down. [00:38:00] There was a lot of meetings going on there between the established leadership and the city. The youth though, was the one that was pushing for changes. And I think that one of the things that came out of it, it’s interesting that the height of -- the height requirement for policemen to be policemen was too high for -- the young kids felt that for Puerto Ricans in this case, or Hispanics, that’s why they said that was the reason why you didn’t have a lot of policemen because they were all too short. So the mayor had to lower the height requirements so that Hispanics could join 20 �the police force. That was one of the demands that came from the community. But the mayor also-JJ: So a group of people got together and wrote a demand? OL: A group of people got together and they [00:39:00] drew up a whole series of demands. JJ: What sort of groups were involved with that? OL: Well, it’s interesting because there was a lot of the representation from the youth groups were there. JJ: So the youth were involved? OL: Yes. And they were the ones that were coming up with some of the demands. But the mayor responded by forming a commission to study the situation in the Puerto Rican community. And of course, they came out with a lot of recommendations they had to do with the youth-- employment, education, housing, health. I mean, in all of them it was falling short, the city was falling short. So recommendations came out to start addressing those problems. Out of the riots came a series of recommendations. For the first time, they opened up [00:40:00] what they used to call the Urban Progress Centers, and they opened the first Urban Progress Center in the Latino community, was on Division and Damen. And the first director was Samuel Betances. And at the time, he was a young man that wanted also to be involved in doing some things. And I think he was already employed by the city at the time. Later on, he went to Boston and went to Harvard and got a PhD. And today he’s an authority on diversity training, and he’s done diversity training all over the world. But that was 21 �the first director of the Urban Progress Center. And there are all the things that came out of it. But the one thing that came out of it that was almost like new to the Latino community was advocacy groups [00:41:00] that demanded things for the community. JJ: What were some of these advocacy groups? OL: Well, then out of the riots came SACC, the Spanish Action Committee of Chicago. There was another group that ABC, The Allies for a Better Community, and also the Latin American Defense Organization, LADO. And I think that of the three, LADO was the more militant group that always, out of the principles of action that they had, this is the last resource is going to be direct action. Well, after they would exhaust all the other means, they always ended up taking actions and picketing, demonstrating, marches. But it was something that the Latino community in Chicago wasn’t used to yet. This kind of activity, I call it advocacy, the demonstrations [00:42:00] and demanding services. So this also came out, I think, out of the riots, this new approach to the problems of the community. That was 1966. JJ: Now, going a little further than 1966, what were you doing after that? OL: Well, by 1966, I already had been married, and I had a daughter. As a matter of fact, my six months in high school, I was already married, and I had my daughter a month after I graduated from high school. So then after high school, I had to go to work. I stopped working at the hot dog stand, got a job. I had to go get a job that would pay me a little more. I had a daughter by that time. So I went to [00:43:00] work at Western Electric. A lot of Puerto Ricans were working at 22 �Western Electric. I met a lot of ’em there. As a matter of fact, my friends that we used to hang around together on Maplewood and Division, they were there. My family, there was three or four of my-- two of my brothers worked there. So Western Electric used to employ a lot of Latinos. So I was working there. JJ: Is this Western Electric South or no? OL: Western Electric was on Cermak and Cicero. JJ: Right, right. OL: Yeah. So that was in 1966. I graduated in 1964, so it was already two years. And it was interesting because my wife and I decided that we were going to continue going to school one way or the other. JJ: What was your wife’s name? OL: My wife at the time was Ada Lopez. Ada Lopez was the daughter of Graciano Lopez, who was the first president of the Puerto Rican Parade Committee. JJ: [00:44:00] That’s right, I remember. OL: But we had decided that we were going to continue school. So we started going to Loop City College, which is now Harold Washington college, part time at night, just taking one class here, one class there. So we still continued going to school, but being very active by (inaudible), we were founding members of LADO. So we were doing a lot of the work also in terms of community organizing. We started doing a lot of that. In LADO also we had people that were draft resistors, for example, we had Sijisfredo Avilés, I think he was the first Puerto Rican draft resistor. He went to jail for it. He served time because he refused to go to the 23 �Army, to serve in the Army. [00:45:00] So there was all this kind of activity going on. JJ: Who were some of the other players in LADO? OL: Well, in LADO, the founding members were, first of all, my brother Obed. There was a young Afro-Puerto Rican that was actually one of the organizers with Martin Luther King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference. His name was, [Andres?]--and I don’t remember the last name, but he was part of it. Another young student, Puerto Rican student at Tuley High School was [Miguel?]. Man, I’m forgetting all those names. Miguel. He was also part of it. My ex-wife, Ada, myself, [00:46:00] Olga Pedroza was also, she was a case worker in the welfare department at the time. So those were the first group of people in LADO that started doing community organizing. And of course, at the same time-- JJ: Community organizing around what issues? OL: The issue, the main issue was welfare. Welfare, because again, you were having a lot of displacement of families. And the displacement, there was a lot of needs that families had. Also, when new families were arriving from Puerto Rico, they also needed assistance in settling, and the welfare department was not responding. JJ: And which office were you mainly-- OL: At the time the welfare office was on Milwaukee and Damen, what is now the Flat Iron building. That was where they had -- JJ: What was it called? Wasn’t that Wicker Park? OL: The Wicker [00:47:00] Park Welfare Office. 24 �JJ: Which was the office for Lincoln Park people. OL: They also came from Lincoln Park. JJ: So they had, when they were displaced from there, like you said-- OL: Yeah, they had to come there. JJ: Issues. OL: And so then LADO was taking care of some of that, demanding that they get services demand, that they get the assistance that was due to them. And so LADO became a family-based organization because you were not dealing with, which is one member of the family you were not dealing with. You were dealing with problem solvers of family. So the whole family used to be members of LADO. And so then LADO, that’s what it became. LADO was families. Families that were from the neighborhood. And so then when LADO would have a demonstration, and you had all these mothers and young kids that were [00:48:00] demonstrations in the marches, and the kids at the time, they saw their parents being active, and they became active themselves. JJ: And after that, what did you get involved in after that? OL: Well, because I was going to Loop College, the one thing that we realized in LADO was that students needed to be organized also. So when I was going part time, I decided to start an organization at Loop College, and I talked to some of the other students that were Latino students, Mexicans that would come from 18th Street, and decided that we needed to form a student organization. And so we got a group together and we called it OLAS, the Organization of Latin 25 �American Students. At Loop Junior College. And so the interesting thing about that is-JJ: Which today is Carol Washington. OL: Carol Washington [00:49:00] College. And OLAS still exists today since 1968 until today. They’re still there. The big difference, I think at the time was that first of all, the students were coming from the neighborhoods. And the other one, one of the principles of the organization was, yeah, we’re studying, and we may be getting a degree, but we’re supposed to go back to the neighborhood. We have to return to our barrio. That’s what we needed. We used to criticize students that would go get a degree, and then they move out. I said, “No, the work’s got to be done in the neighborhood.” So we may get trained and we may get a degree, but we have to go back to the neighborhood. So that was a movement also in the student movement to go back and bring back the skills to the neighborhood. So I [00:50:00] think that was unique and that was unique of OLAS. And so then OLAS also got involved with LADO because of that, because the area of activity was in the community. So that was interesting. JJ: So you did work, I mean, you were recruiting students too? OL: Recruiting students. Organizing students. And we would go and talk to students in the high schools and other colleges and universities to get ’em organized. JJ: So you expanded to other-- OL: Yeah, yeah. We were into an expansionist mode. But of course, I don’t know if this is good or bad, but all of my tendencies from when I used to be on Division and Maplewood, I mean, we had ’em, a lot of, still had a lot of street in us, and 26 �our loyalties were still very street. [00:51:00] So for that reason, when I became directly in contact with the Young Lords in 1968. JJ: How did that happen? Do you recall? OL: Well, yeah, I remember that there was a urban training center on Washington and Ashland, and it was part of the Presbyterian Church, but people used to come there and be trained to be organizers, and they had conferences and presentations. And I remember one time that I went there, it was on a Saturday, beautiful Saturday. It probably was late summer. No, yeah, maybe even before. But nevertheless, that’s where I met you and Ralph ‘Spaghetti’ Rivera. [00:52:00] And you were in the process of reorganizing the Young Lords. And we talked, and again, a lot of the students, our loyalty was still very street. So I had no problems relating to you, relating to Ralph and understanding the things that you were doing. So that was the first, the contact, again, from when Kenny Smith told me, “Let’s go get the Young Lords,” to 1968, early 1968, I think that I sort reestablished the communications with the Young Lords. JJ: Yes, summer and fall. OL: So then at the time, Ralph, and you were developing the symbol for the Young Lords, [00:53:00] and you told me what it was, and I helped draw that, the map, the fist, the rifle. That was my contribution to the development of the Young Lord button. And so then we continued working because in the demonstrations that we had against welfare, for example, we had demonstrations that were LADO, OLAS, the Young Lords, and through the Young Lords contacts, the Black Panthers. So the demonstrations that we had were not just one group. It was a 27 �coalition of groups. And as a matter of fact, also from the neighborhood, lot of the-JJ: Actually, Fred Hampton was arrested with myself and your brother. OL: At one of the welfare offices. JJ: A couple times at the Wicker Park Welfare office. OL: At the Welfare, yeah. Yeah. Because the African American community was also being affected by the lack of services from the welfare department. So that [00:54:00] was-- JJ: They had the coalition. OL: The Rainbow Coalition, the Rainbow Coalition was going on, right. So it was a very interesting, the Rainbow Coalition was able to mobilize in that manner. And I don’t know, it is difficult to see that happen again. But nevertheless, that was, again, they continued contact with the Young Lords. So then at one point you asked me to help a little more with the Young Lords. And I think at the time you needed to have someone deal with a lot of the propaganda, the writing releases, things like that. So you asked me to come in as the Minister of Information for the Young Lords. And that was right around the takeover of McCormick Theological Seminary that I came as a Young Lords Minister of Information. JJ: So [00:55:00] what were you doing? I mean, you were writing the releases? OL: Yeah, and of course, we had a lot of contact with the Panthers. A lot of the things that we did, we tried to fashion it to the Panthers, the newspaper, all the things, even the structure. We had chairman ministers, because we saw that they were effective in organizing, especially in organizing street youth. That kind 28 �of structure was effective rather than to have, oh, here you have the president and the secretary. No, it had to be more structured in that way. JJ: But were we organized before that? Because a lot of people think that the Panthers organized this. OL: Oh, no, no, no, no. The Young Lords existed again from the early [00:56:00] 1960s. And then a lot of the work in reorganizing and reorienting the activities of the Young Lords was when you came back into the neighborhood and started to do that. So this was before the Panthers, and I think-- JJ: Before our connection, before our connection. OL: Before the connection of the Panthers. And I think one of the characteristics of the Young Lords in Chicago is that its membership was all neighborhood. It was rooted in the community. You didn’t have people coming in from Indiana and joining. You didn’t have people coming from-- No, it was so a community base, a community rooted organization that decided to take action. And I think that was part of the effectiveness of the Young Lords. You remember that when we called [00:57:00] a march, we didn’t call it a month ahead or two weeks ahead, it would be overnight. He says, “We got a demonstration.” And the word went out and people showed up. It was all neighborhood people. JJ: And were there a few people there, or -- OL: No, overnight you get a thousand people out. Why? Because the network was already there. If one of the Young Lords heard it, he passed the word, and that one passed the word. And there was a network was already set up. So it wasn’t like, it wasn’t an artificial organization that you said, “Okay, now we are going to 29 �call ourselves the Young Lords.” And no, it was something that was homegrown and it grew from the bottom up. So I think that was unique and that’s what made it effective. And then of course, then after yours always come groups that become [00:58:00] organized or they organize, but they don’t have the characteristic of the original Chicago Young Lords, which was that it was rooted in the community. So we were responding to the community, and it becomes obvious that it’s a community based group. Studs Terkel. One time we had a festival, a festival, it was in August of 1969 probably. And of course we played with words, I think we said, “We’re going to Roast the Pigs.” It was a festival in Puerto Rico, you roast pigs, right? But here you tell you were telling people we’re going to roast the pig, well, they thought it was a policeman. So it was an interesting play with concept. But nevertheless, that festival-JJ: [00:59:00] And the festival was in front of the church. OL: The festival was on Dayton and Armitage, in front of the headquarters of the Young Lords. JJ: The Methodist Church, the first block party. OL: It was probably the first one. JJ: After that there were block parties all the time. OL: Everywhere. But here, the interesting thing is Studs Terkel, who’s already very famous in terms of being an excellent interviewer, he came and interviewed people. And with that program that he did-- JJ: It was live. 30 �OL: Well, I don’t remember if it was live, but I know that from that program, he won a prize. JJ: An Emmy or something. OL: Yeah, something. But in that interview that they made of several people, adults, he would ask them, “How do you feel in this neighborhood? Is it secure? Is it more dangerous now with the Young Lords here?” And the response was, “No, I feel safer.” This is where adults talking to [01:00:00] Studs Terkel and saying, “No, I feel safer.” So again, that’s another indication that the Young Lords were really community. And the actions that the Young Lords were taking were not alien to the community. They people, adults related to that. Maybe adults couldn’t participate anymore, but they were not against us. They supported the actions of the Young Lords. So I think that, again-- JJ: You’re saying that the community was safe or was a feeling of security in the community with the Young Lords. OL: With the Young Lords. JJ: Versus what they’re saying, what they had said later. OL: And not only that, they could say that’s a subjective opinion of someone, but do you look at the statistics also? We looked at the statistics, the police at that time and crime went down in Lincoln Park when the Young Lords were there. JJ: You looked at this? OL: The statistics were there. I remember we looked at them, and I’m sure probably [01:01:00] Studs Terkel looked at ’em too. But again, going back to what made the Young Lords unique, I think that was part of it. That was part of it. And the 31 �other thing is that I think the Young Lords embodied a lot of the principles, dreams of a whole wave of activists that came from Puerto Rico to the United States, in this case, to Chicago. And this kind of view of the world and view of the island that was transmitted to the Young Lords from people that came from Puerto Rico had a lot to do. And I’m talking specifically about the decision that the Young Lords take to promote the independence of Puerto Rico, selfdetermination. The concept was self-determination. So self-determination for nations [01:02:00] included Puerto Rico. But I think a lot of that influence came from, again, a wave of adults that had come to the United States that were independentistas and nacionalistas, and they were still in the scene. And I remember that we used to get visits very often from a gentleman by the name of Manuel Ravago. And he was a nationalist. And I remember that he’s the one that, he gave us the nationalist flag, and he gave us a flag of the Lares. He was the one that was feeding us. And at the time, I don’t know how many of us were conscious of who this man was. And it’s not until later that you begin to place him in the history of the nationalist [01:03:00] movement. And Manuel Ravago was very active. I think that, well, no, he was directly connected to the nationalists that came to Congress and shut up Congress, Lolita Lebrón and [Coso?] and others. He was part of that group. So all of that kind of energy and nationalist energy, he deposited all that in the Young Lords. And that was another aspect that gave the Young Lords a lot more body as an organization. We could have stayed a neighborhood organization and fought urban renewal and provide health care, and that will be the end. But when we began to talk 32 �about self-determination, that put the Young Lords [01:04:00] in a different plane. And again, I’m saying that that type of political position that we assumed it was effective and had an impact, not just in Chicago, but all around the United States because of the history of the nationalists that had done all that work since 1952. Manuel Ravago was from Jayuya, and they still had that impetus from the Grito de Jayuya, from the rebellion in 1952 in Jayuya. So all of those things combined made the Young Lords very unique. The fact they were community-based, community rooted in the community, providing services, breakfast for children, clothing, the health clinic, [01:05:00] all of those things we were providing at the community level, but we were also providing the people, the families, with an ideal beyond the basic needs. And that was self-determination. So that made the Lords unique. JJ: They were other, for example, went to Denver, a couple of buses or busload? OL: In 1968, 1969. JJ: Did you go to Denver? OL: Yeah, yeah. In 1968 and 1969, the southwest of the United States was also very active politically. And the Chicano movement was really going at the time. And one of the leaders in the southwest was Rodolfo “Corky” Gonzales, who headed the Crusade for Justice in Denver. And [01:06:00] he had a lot of young people too involved. And they decided to have the National Chicano Youth Conference. And because we had communications with the southwest, LADO had communications, OLAS. The Young Lords, I mean all of the groups, progressive groups that we had here with them. They called that conference and we decided 33 �that we needed to go and we needed to take young people. And it was interesting because we weren’t just going with community activists. We decided to take gangs, members of different gangs. And so we had the Young Lords, but the Latin Kings participated. From 18th Street, we had the Latin Counts, Ambrose and Rampant. And for the first time, south side and north side, we were coming together, not fighting, but coming together. And [01:07:00] we rode in the same bus. It was two buses. We rode in the same buses from Chicago to Denver, and they all came back impacted by the Chicano movement and ready to be active. Can we take a little, I’m afraid, talking about the Young Lords all this time. JJ: Okay. OL: Okay, so then going back about the uniqueness of the Young Lords, that’s what it was. So that’s what makes it unique. I think that then after, in the 1960s, because of all the political activity around the nation, so we were invited to the Denver Conference, we took these groups and they had a big impact. It had an impact on other youth groups in Chicago. I think the Latin Kings, at one point, when they came back, they decided to call themselves the Latin King Organization, and they wanted to start doing the very same [01:08:00] actions as the Young Lords. They wanted to have breakfast for children. They wanted to have a health clinic. Of course, I think that what happened probably was the leadership was unable to really steer the Kings in that direction. So they went in an entirely different direction at the time. But I think that’s what makes it unique. All the groups come up after the Young Lords that are effective. They have good 34 �programs, but that are formed. They are organized to do certain things, but nothing like the Young Lords in Chicago. The Young Lords Chicago were community rooted and responding to community needs. We didn’t have to do a paper, a position paper on the needs of the community. [01:09:00] We were living those needs. If it was displacement, we had to go to the real estate offices that were pushing people out. And that’s why the confrontation with Fat Larry, for example. JJ: Who was that, can you describe that? OL: Fat Larry was the head of Bissell Realty, and they were part of the whole displacement of families. So when we find this out, then the Young Lords went and confronted, you were one of the people that came and confronted Fat Larry. And Fat Larry, of course, responded the way that he was used to. And he came out with one gun on one side and a shotgun on the other. And we have pictures that when the police come in, they don’t do anything with Fat Larry with two guns, but they start searching you for weapons, which was strange. But anyway, so we didn’t have to do research on the needs of the community. We were living those needs. So we were responding [01:10:00] to real needs, and that’s what made us effective. We didn’t have to spend three weeks doing research. Not all of our positions were the positions of a progressive organization. We have to admit, we never wrote a paper on the Young Lord’s position on women. We didn’t have that luxury. Even the people that had been trained at the university level that were Young Lords were not academicians. JJ: So there were some people that were trained at the university level? 35 �OL: In the Young Lords, we had people with university training. JJ: Who were some of these people? OL: Well, to begin with, you look at the Minister of Health. [Alberto Chavira?] was a medical student at Northwestern University, then later became a doctor. He was the minister of information for the, he was a doctor and he was community based. [01:11:00] He became a doctor. JJ: Actually, he was a leader of a student, medical students. OL: The medical students at Northwestern. JJ: And they helped form the clinic. OL: They would organize medical students to be part of the free health clinic movement in Chicago. We had, did I run out people that were trained? Well myself, I was still going to school, but I was not an academician. We had our Minister of Education, Tony Baez, who was a university student in Puerto Rico. So we had people that they had academic training, but we were all focused on responding to the needs the community had. We were not responding to academic demands or intellectual [01:12:00] demands of publishing position papers on women, publish position papers on the national question. All those things are exercises for intellectuals. That was not us. That was not us. We were direct action and we were responding to needs that were present in our community. It doesn’t mean that we weren’t-- we studied, we studied. I think Tony Baez, Minister of Education, made sure that we had a module that people had to read about the history of Puerto Rico. I think you could get a seventeenyear-old that was what we call the cadres and they could tell you the whole 36 �history of Puerto Rico in the independence movement, because that was part of the training in the Young Lords. But we read political papers, we read On Contradictions by Mao Zedong, and that [01:13:00] was very helpful in understanding problems and how to solve problems and how to identify the enemy. Because today the problem is that people don’t understand who the enemy is. Or sometimes it’s someone who’s not an enemy and they treat ’em as enemies because they don’t have a way of analyzing problems or what Mao called contradictions. We did, and we were very clear on who our friends were and who our enemies were, and that made us very effective. So it’s not like we were not interested in learning. We were not interested in intellectual exercises. And I think that separated us from other organizations that would look at us as if we were just simply a bunch of [lumpen?] They thought that because we didn’t come out with position papers like that, we were not [01:14:00] following the correct line, the correct political line. As far as I’m concerned, we were following the right political line because we were responding to the needs that our community had. That’s the correct line, because it doesn’t make sense for you to follow correct line when you’re not serving the people. So I think that’s important to understand about the Young Lords in Chicago. I think that if you look at our newspaper, for example. The newspaper that we put out is not work of intellectuals. You read it and it’s not nice. I mean, it’s not really nice. I mean, run on sentences and all kinds of things that you look at like, “What the hell, who wrote this?” Because it was people in the organization that were expressing themselves and we put it in the newspaper because it was important for us to let 37 �people know what our members were thinking. But they didn’t follow all the rules [01:15:00] of a journalist because we were not. Other organizations had that kind of discipline, so they put out real nice newspapers, but we didn’t. But we did deliver the message though. We did deliver the message, and I think that was important. But we had all kinds of people in the organization, not only at different levels of academic training, but different economic levels, different nationalities. The Young Lords, the Young Lords from its beginning was an international group from when it was gang to when it was a political organization. We had Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, African-Americans, whites. So I think that was unique. That was unique. JJ: [01:16:00] You mentioned women, that it wasn’t an intellectual thing about the women. What do you mean? OL: Well, I mean, the Young Lords always had women in the organization, the Lordettes, for example. But there were young women that were part of the Young Lords from the beginning, and they stayed with the Young Lords. And the relationship that between members was not the progressive position, but they were given their place. They were not given their place--they took their place because, for example, one of the women leaders in the group, Angie, she formed the MAO, Mothers And Others because at the time, a lot of the women in the organization were mothers. And so as Mothers And Others, [01:17:00] they made sure that women in the organization had a place. It wasn’t that we gave ’em a place, they took their place. And I think we never fought that. We accepted that. So it wasn’t like we were a male dominated organization, that 38 �whatever we said had to go in terms of women. The women group was there and they made sure that they were respected, but we were not the academic type. We said, “Okay, this is our position on women and this is the history of the women in society.” And we didn’t do that. We responded to the needs at the time, and they were very much part of the organization. JJ: In fact, wasn’t there a daycare center that we were working on together? OL: Yeah. Again, one of the responses of the Young Lords was, “Hey, [01:18:00] there’s kids that need daycare.” And that was one of the ideas of the church when we took over the church, was to put the basement in order so that it could be a daycare center, except the city would not allow us to do that. Remember, we complained that they came out with things like, your ceiling system is way too high, or your floors are too low, so they’re out of compliance. But, and that was of course concerns that the women brought up and we would try to address. JJ: And we also had, you mentioned the clinic already, and the Breakfast for Children Program. OL: Those were programs that they were, the service programs that we had established to respond to very specific needs that the community had. And I think the other part that I think is [01:19:00] important to understand is Chicago was going through a very interesting time, and we had a very interesting mayor. Mayor Daley was not a very tolerant mayor. He’s the one that declared during the riots on the west side, “Shoot to kill,” looters. That was his position. And so we were challenging that structure and in demonstrations that we had, he used the force of the police department to disorganize the Young Lords, to squash the 39 �Young Lords, to drain the resources from the organization by arresting the leadership. And a lot of money would [01:20:00] be tied up in bail money. So we didn’t have a mayor that even accepted that the Young Lords were doing something positive. I think if we look at the New York Lords, they had a mayor that was John Lindsay, who was a liberal that I’m glad that he was there, and I’m glad that they were functioning in those years because they were able to do things that we were unable to do in Chicago. They were able to do, for example, they took over this TV unit and brought it to the barrio, and they were successful, and that was very good because they were able to give services to the barrio, to the community. Had we tried to do that in Chicago, we’d be dead today. So there was a big difference in terms of [01:21:00] actions and in terms of responses that we had to adjust ourselves to. But we did. We did. JJ: And you said we did. What do you mean we did? OL: Well, I mean, we still challenged the structure and we still deliver services. JJ: Wait, what is it we challenged? OL: Well, the police brutality was one of the things. We challenged urban renewal. Then when we took over McCormick Theological Seminary, actually our challenge was to the city structure that was pushing the program, urban renewal, and it was McCormick Theological Seminary because McCormick Theological Seminary was one of the biggest slumlords in the community. Yeah, they were training ministers, but they were also profiting from all these houses they owned that [01:22:00] were substandard. They were slums. So the takeover of McCormick was part of the challenge to the city structure. Opening up a free 40 �health clinic was a challenge to the city structure because they did not do that. It’s the city that was supposed to provide that kind of services, free health services to our community. They didn’t. We did. That was a challenge. Free breakfast. That was a challenge to the city structure because we were telling ’em, “Look, you’re allowing students to go to classes in the mornings without good breakfasts so they can fall asleep because they’re not fed properly.” That’s a challenge. And of course, we were part of a movement, national movement, and I think we saw the results in Chicago. The city of Chicago opened up neighborhood clinics afterwards. [01:23:00] There were several neighborhoods that had City of Chicago Free Health Clinics after the Free Health Clinic movement. All the programs now that the cities, many cities have for free lunches and some breakfasts. JJ: This was also part of the Rainbow Coalition that we were modeling our programs after the Black Panther Party? OL: Yeah, because again, all of this movement on free health and free breakfast and all, it was a national movement. It was not a local movement. And it impacted the government. We didn’t overthrow the government, but we forced them to respond. And so we have some of those services now. The Republicans will probably, we want to get rid of ’em if we have a Republican president. But that was established. JJ: [01:24:00] What about, so Mayor Daley didn’t like this, so there was a little repression going on. What are some of the forms? How did that take shape? 41 �OL: The City of Chicago established the GIU, Gang Intelligence Unit, and that was part of what the mayor called the War on Gangs. So he declared war on gangs, and of course, we fell in that category. The GIU was designed to create problems for gangs, to spy on gangs. And so they were doing that with the Young Lords. They created problems. They followed us. They did surveillance of our members 24 hours a day sometimes, the arrests, and the entire organization was under siege because [01:25:00] of the GIU. So the mayor, that was part of the mayor’s effort to quell whatever progressive youth organization was coming up. JJ: What about Reverend Bruce Johnson and Eugenia Johnson? Can you explain what that was about? OL: Well, Reverend Johnson was the minister of Methodist Church on Armitage and Dayton. That’s the one we took over. And Reverend Johnson was not opposed to working with us, and he made it clear in public that he supported us and he would work with us. There was a Hispanic congregation in that church that was primarily a Cuban congregation, and they had a Cuban minister. And I think [01:26:00] that the friction internally in the church probably developed because of Reverend Johnson’s support of our organization. One of our icons was el Che Guevara, and that really clashed with the Cuban members of that Methodist church. And there was a lot of anger, and there was a lot of discontent, of course, a lot of hate towards the Young Lords, but it’s a lot of anger and discontent with Bruce Johnson because he was, in essence, supporting us. And I think that they probably saw us as a communist organization, which we weren’t. 42 �We read all kinds of communist material, but they probably saw us that way. And I think Bruce Johnson was the target of that kind of hate, [01:27:00] those kinds of negative feelings. And I’m not a detective. I know nothing about criminal justice, but I think Bruce Johnson was probably a victim of that. If you look at the evidence, when he was stabbed to death, they say that it was a very violent death. There was a lot of passion involved in it. This is Bruce Johnson. He’s a preacher. Who is going to hate him that much to the point that even the evidence shows that whoever did it was really angry at him. That’s the evidence. So I think that it cost him his life [01:28:00] having supported the organization. JJ: And his wife. OL: His wife. JJ: Was stabbed too. OL: Was stabbed to death. JJ: We’re not talking about once or twice, they’re talking about fourteen and nineteen times. OL: Oh, yeah. No, that’s why it was very, the police say it was a passionate act. They were angry. Whoever did it was really going at it. JJ: And many people got arrested. Weren’t you arrested at one point? OL: Well, yeah. My arrest was because of what we were confronting the police at People’s Park that it was empty lot on Halsted and Armitage that was going to be used to build a private tennis club. And we were saying, who the hell is going to become a member of a tennis club here? We can hardly play softball in the 43 �corner. We took a stand against that and [01:29:00] the lot that was going to be used for that tennis club. We took it over and we called it Peoples Park. JJ: There were tents set up, right? Tents. OL: Yeah, the whole works. It was tents and we camped out, and even Buck, Mr. Fuller came and visited us, and he donated a geodesic dome for the playground. So the people’s actions were also heard all over the nation, but it was part of the urban renewal. JJ: How did you get arrested or something? OL: Well, we know we were at the park and the police began to harass us, and so we retaliated, and of course the police was not going to be, he called in for reinforcements and they came. We had a confrontation. The charges that I had was [01:30:00] resisting arrest, mob action, of course, resisting arrest, aiding to the escape of a prisoner. JJ: What prisoner? OL: Because they already had one of the guys, they had Orlando and I came at the policeman and he had to let go Orlando. But then they got me, and assaulting a police officer, but that was because of that. JJ: So they were resolved later? OL: I think I was given probation. JJ: At that time. OL: After some time, yeah, after a few years, that was the thing was solved. Yeah. JJ: Any final thoughts that you want to, or anything that you want to add regarding refreshing or anything else? 44 �OL: No. JJ: That’s it. OL: That’s it. JJ: All right. Thank -- END OF VIDEO FILE 45 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d241edacfa84e887b801b1f7d7546f3c.mp4 cef9b53c19f944a818da65c0b41137fe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Omar López vídeo entrevista y biografía, entrevista 2 Descripción Spanish language Description entry Omar López era el Ministro de Información para los Young Lords. Nació en México y llego a chicago en 1958, estableándose en el vecindario de Humboldt Park donde sigue viviendo. El primero conoció alguien de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park cuando estaban en las calles como una ganga puertorriqueña. López los vio de nuevo cuando los Young Lords se transformaron, oficialmente en el 23 de Septiembre de 1958, de in ganga a un movimiento de los derechos humanos. Esta vez los jóvenes estaban protegiendo a José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez y Fred Hampton (del Black Panther Party) quien estaban hablando juntos en Loop Jr. College donde López estaba peleando por los derechos de los estudiantes y educación bilingüe. López se hizo parte de los Young Lords en 1969. En 1973 el fundo el Mexican Teachers Organization. Señor López continúa trabajando por los derechos de Latinos y emigrantes. En 2006, el corrió por el Green Party como candidato para la Case de Representantes de Illinois, del 4th distrito. El 10 de Marzo del mismo año el reunió una de la más grandes demonstraciones, de gente que luchaban por los derechos de los inmigrantes de clase obrera, en la historia de los Estados Unidos. López continua siendo proactivo en la aria de Humboldt Park, derechos para inmigrantes, la “Latin American Defense Organization (LADO), y los Young Lords. El es el director ejecutivo de CALOR, una clínica para Latinos que han sido afectados por HIV/AIDS u otras enfermedades. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Estudiantes--Derechos Civiles Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Lopez_Omar_2 Title A name given to the resource Omar López video interview and transcript, interview 2 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource López, Omar Description An account of the resource Omar López was Minister of Information for the Young Lords. He was born in Mexico and first came to Chicago in 1958, settling in the Humboldt Park Neighborhood where he has lived ever since. He first met some Young Lords in Lincoln Park when they were hanging out on the streets as a local Puerto Rican street gang, and later when the Young Lords were providing security for Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez and Fred Hampton (of the Black Panther Party) who were speaking together at Loop Jr. College where Omar was a student and fighting for student rights and bilingual education. Mr. López joined the Young Lords in 1969. In 1973, he founded the Mexican Teachers Organization. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Students--Civil rights Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-08-23 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9f060fea6bd5068c6fa31d7765f43c0a.mp3 8f4367ac48a9054e2ea64d57250e6436 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d0686f32d7e22da4c5aba91b6b0d336.pdf 53ca9bf9ae2595c9d6dcbda509ff82ef PDF Text Text Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 1 Ken Kutzel: This is Ken Kutzel and Katelyn... Katelyn Bosch: Bosch. KK: Katelyn Bosch, and were here today to, uh, with, uh, Bob Lord, uh at the old school house in Saugatuck, I’m sorry in Douglas Michigan, and let’s see today is June 4th, uh 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank, uh, Bob, thanks for talking with us today and were interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck Douglass area. Can you please tell me your full name and spell it? Bob Lord: [Laughs] Well, nobody calls me Robert but that’s what it is. Robert William Lord. L O R D. Then just call me Bob. KK: Okay, and um, do you – oh you don’t use any accents or anything so, tell us about where you grew up. BL: Well I grew up in Charlotte, which is hometown, center part of the state, uh, I was, I was born there 1945, and uh, and that was hometown until 1976. I graduated high school there and I was tool and die maker there for a number of years, and then I went into Field Sales Engineering and from there in ’76 I migrated to the Holland area and went to work for Bone Aluminum as a Field Sales Engineer and uh, consequently that drew me to this side of the state. Um, my wife and I ended up in 1978 purchased a property in Saugatuck on the corner of Holland and Lucy Street, and the property had no gas, meters had been pulled, the electric meters on both houses had been pulled and the water meter had been, the water had been shut off. And I say both houses because there is a Singapore house on that property. The main house uh, was about 2400 square feet and the Singapore house was probably 820, 840 something like that. KK: Singapore house would mean it was moved from Singapore. BL: It was moved from Singapore and we had the original abstract which stayed with the house and um, which I just recently sold. Um, but the Singapore house, the abstract reflected that the taxes changed in the winter of 1874, 1875 and so we suspected that when the prop, the house had been moved. We had been told by, and I don’t remember who had told us that, but it had been separated in two and skidded up the channel on ice and then reassembled on the property and then the main house, uh was started construction sometime thereafter. Um, the main house actually had been called, when we bought it, had a sign out front, called ‘The 1894 House’, and the reason for that was because there was an addition made to that, that property, that house uh, that the cornerstone laid at the very front and that was the parlor and the master bedroom above it, um that had that date on it. Leslie Junkerman who was as Justice of the Peace, ended up, held court in the front parlor, and consequently we had had from time to time people that would knock on the door and want to come in and say ‘oh, yeah we were married in your front parlor, could we look at it’ and so on and so forth, so uh, but that gives kind of a brief �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 2 thumbnail of, of that property. I don’t know if I could tell you anything more about it than the people we bought it from [pause] Jim and Pam Davis were the previous owners to us and she was a Potter and the what is now kind of an office, secondary apartment uh, was where her studio was, and um, anyway Jim was a Pharmaceutical Representative of some sort and um, it had really fallen onto bad times. It was, the main house had had a fire in it, and like I said all the, everything had been shut off so when we bought it we were digging in and going for, going for the walls as far as putting everything back to right. [00:05:29] KK: Uh, I spoke with you once before Bob about the fact that uh you have some knowledge about the houses around you? BL: Oh! KK: …and that some of them were from Singapore, can you elaborate on that? BL: Well, you know, from the standpoint, yes. Um, headed toward the channel which would be west, next door neighbor was Marlene Ansorge, she lived there when we bought the property but the next, the next house over Betty Watson at that time, she later married uh, Warren Mulder, uh, ah, we were told that was, had been a Singapore house now I, I can’t substantiate that because some of the people that we had talked to, either have passed or don’t remember anymore, and so on. But, I know that the house on the other side of that one, which would be 1, 2, 3 down from us, that had been, um, purchased and a second story elevated to that house and that was a Singapore house and then I think, um, the property called Filamare, I believe that was a Singapore house as well. The interesting thing about that block was that our back property line was constant from Holland Street all the way to Butler Street. We shared that common back, uh, back lot line and that, in fact you could, if, from, from the air you could look down and see the, that track right on through. Interesting piece of property. Betty Watson, Betty Mulder told us that her Uncle had owned everything on that street from Holland Street to Butler Street at one time, which would’ve gone back, probably 1870. KK: And you’re talking about what street is that? BL: That’s Lucy Street. KK: Lucy Street. BL: Lucy Street. KK: Okay. BL: Holland Street, it would kind of, I’ll call it parallel to Lucy Street, but and, if you look at, the, the actual survey of that corner property the um, 748 746 Holland Street the one corner marker for that property is out in the middle of, I should shouldn’t say middle, but it is out in the right hand traffic lane of Lucy Street. If you measure from one corner to this corner to that corner, it’s an oddball shape its �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 3 right out in the middle of that one lane. So, the city actually owe, owns, owes, owes me some back tax money I think I should probably get. KK: Yeah, good luck. BL: Yes. Anyway. KK: Um, why did you locate in Saugatuck Douglas? BL: Well, um we were renting a place up in Macatawa Park and this goes back to ‘77 ‘78. My wife had taken a job over in what is considered the Haworth Building, she worked for a company called Flame Tech as a Office Manager everything taken care of payroll, this and that and whatever, and um, I was working for Bone Aluminum and consequently I’d pick her up from after work and I’m, we just took a jaunt down Water Street crossed the bridge, and I took the first right hand turn once I could, could take a right hand turn up past the congregational church and down the hill, and on Holland Street, and this is the month of February and I see this mustard colored house with cream trim and I’m thinking ‘Wow! Look at that!’ and she said the same thing, and in the snow, sticking up about this far above the snow and I’m showing you about 4 inches of height, there’s a for-sale sign and I’m thinking ‘Oh my goodness’. Well through the course of events we were able to purchase it and did a lot of back-tracking because the people that had owned it, had left the area and so on. But, we thought it was [chuckles] a quaint area, like a fishing village from Massachusetts Connecticut someplace out there. Well that’s not quite the case. [00:10:24] KK: That would be about what year? BL: Ah, it would be 1978, and we closed on the property on May the 4th and started working it on May the 5th because we had to be out of the property that we were renting up in Macatawa Park by the end of May. So do you know, when we moved would’ve been? Memorial Day weekend! Now, if you’ve been around Memorial Day weekend you know that it is like ‘Holy Smokes! What did we get ourselves into?’ Nothing but traffic and confusion and it was um, to put it very bluntly, it was like a madhouse. But, we got through it, um, we raised uh, her two kids, we adopted another one and my three kids from time to time were here and the main house was just that, it now became a residence and uh, there’s four bedrooms upstairs and one bedroom down, a parlor, and so on and so forth. But, very nice community, good school system, great school system in fact. KK: Uh, what was your first impression of the area? BL: Yeah [laughs] moving on Memorial Day? Yeah, the first impression was when we saw that house, and that was like ‘Oh my goodness look at this’, it, it was an amazing thing. I, I truly did, the house was everything I thought it was, it had enough gingerbread on it, just to be more than attractive and ah, it looked like it needed saving so we did. �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 4 KK: And so you really did not have earlier contact with uh, Saugatuck or anything? BL: No, I had been here once in high school, back, went to Oval Beach when I was in um, our, our, I was in DeMolay and our whole, our whole lodge came over to the, um, to Oval Beach once, one Saturday, and uh, that was the only contact I’d had with it, never knew what it was like. KK: Any special memories of Oval Beach at the time? BL: Hm, not at the time because that would’ve been, I was probably 16 or 17, and that’s um, [whispers] that’s over 50 years ago. KK: Can you share any particular memories about living here, besides what you have, anything good or bad that just kind of stands out? BL: Um, the academics that are here. The school system is amazing. The um, the class sizes at the time that, that, um my stepson and my stepdaughter were in, were you know 30 35 kids so it was a 1 on 1 and the competition between students was amazing. The National Honors society always struck home um, Jack was actually for the college entrances on was, should’ve been Valedictorian but was um, Salutatorian. Anyway! It’s, it’s the school system that was a draw. KK: Ah, what were the um, the key places in Saugatuck and Douglas that you liked to hang, hang out in or go to? BL: Hm, oh I’d go down to the Butler, to the restaurant, um, over in well, now, now I don’t think it was at the time but Ida Red’s for breakfast once in a while. Um, Jack was working for, Jack my stepson, he uh, worked for Henry Gleason, right there beside the boat launch, and uh, in fact we ended up helping Henry and Claire Deen at the time that they were running the store, and of course um, Bruce and Marilyn Staring they ran the, um, Star of Saugatuck the paddle wheeler that was right next store so we knew that, and took advantage of that every now and again. Would ride that every once and a while. KK: Okay, um, doesn’t affect you there, uh, how aware were you of the LGBT community here? [00:15:02] BL: How aware? KK: Huh, yeah. BL: Oh, I just, I never really paid too much attention, to it really, I mean I, I knew it was here, didn’t matter one way or the other. KK: Yeah. BL: I was a, I’m a, a ‘Live and let live’. �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 5 KK: Okay, uh, let’s see…and I guess the other question I would want to ask you, did you have any contact with the art school or any… how aware were you as somebody living here of the art school and what went on there? BL: I, I knew that it, you mean Oxbow? KK: Oxbow, yes. BL: I knew that it was there, I never really visited it as far as going out and taking a tour of it, but I knew, uh, my, my one, my one daughter ended up having a, um, a stepson that was doing um, artwork over there. Back, this goes back probably 30, yeah maybe 25 years ago and so on, but I knew it was there and knew that it was rather prestigious from the standpoint that, you know, ‘Oh you’re in Saugatuck, ah! You know where Ox…” Yes, I do, I know where Oxbow is but I never, I, I, was always out on the road working so, I never really took advantage of it. Wish I had though. KK: Yeah. Uh, how would you describe Saugatuck Douglas to somebody who’s never been here? BL: That’s a really good question because, during, during the off season, you could fire a shot gun off down Lucy Street and probably not hit anything. Ah, but during the season, I think a good description would be you go from 2,000 people during the offseason, wintertime, and during the season, it elevated to probably 20,000 people because of the outlying area and so on so forth. It’s a tourist community, there’s no doubt about that, it has a good draw, the restaurants and the stores everybody comes to town for that um, but candidly I would tell people that if you’re looking for a good restaurant, a nice place to stay, you can’t get to the beach from the Saugatuck side of things you have to go across, the, the bridge and then take a hitch and a giddy up. You know what a hitch and a giddy up is? Going that-away, um you know, long story short, yeah its its it’s good place to visit. KK: Okay, and how would you compare the area to other places you’ve lived and worked? BL: Oh. Hm, well, my growing up I was in a rural area. I actually lived in the Charlotte area, there’s no real comparison because it was, Charlotte was farm industrial community, were, Lansing, Lansing’s bedroom. Oldsmobile was there, Fisher Body was there and uh, and in my hometown there was the Aluminum extrusion company and uh, a glass factory that would, uh, would manufacture Gerber baby food jars and uh, S-Strohs stubby beer bottles. So here’s this one community that I came from in 1976 all the way over here to the west side of the state, and [inaudible] there’s, it’s like apples and plums. It’s not the same. KK: Okay, um, do you have any specifically, or, favorite memories of the summer time here? BL: [Laughs] Venetian Night. KK: Well, talk about it. �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 6 BL: One, the traffic and so on getting out of town. We were sitting on the front porch, in the dark, watching the traffic try to get out of town. Try to get out of town was the key, cause this was before somebody really got a hold of it and organized it, this was probably would’ve been the early 80’s, somewhere in there and, [pause] is this going to be re-listened to and edited possibly because, one of the people that was in one of the cars, she got out the car ran up to our porch, did not see us and proceeded to relieve herself in our bushes! [00:20:05] [All laugh] BL: ...and my wife ended up taking her sprinkling can, stood up, and just poured the sprinkling can right on top of her head! [Imitates person complaining] Oh! Talk about wet hen! Ah, yeah. That was probably the highlight of it. After a while, you know Jack ended up getting a scholarship to Alma College, and we bought a cottage up north by uh, Lakeview and consequently weekends were spent up there so that the traffic and so on, we didn’t really partake in that and so on, but it, it was, it’s still a nice community. KK: Uh, let’s see, what type of shenanigans did you get into? Were you a participant, an instigator, or bystander of mayhem? BL: Uh, I was a bystander. I would never, never end up getting in. I just watched her take the sprinkling can and dump it on top of this woman’s head. No, no, I think probably the wildest thing was every now and then I’d fire up my motorcycle and run down the street and Jimmy VanOss and his crew down the street would “Hey!” Cheer and, oh well. KK: Well you um, you actually moved here after the, the um, the rock festivals and all that... BL: …Yes... KK: ...So you wouldn’t remember that. BL: No, it was ’78 when we moved here. KK: Yeah, uh, and um, [pause] how would you describe Saugatuck Douglass as you best remember it from, from this era? That would be the era like, when you moved here. BL: Boy. KK: I know. You gave us several examples already. BL: I just, you know, the one thing that changed, uh, that my wife prompted, she got after the state police for having people walking into town down our street from Holland Street from either the boat launch or from other places and so on with open container. And that would’ve been probably, the early 80’s, ’84, ’85 and yeah that’d be about right because Jack and Bryan Earlywine would stand on the �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 7 corner and the state police would have everybody dump their coolers, their beer cans, everything, and the kids would pick up their cans and cash them in down at Gleason’s! And I remember the guys doing, you know, great big grocery sacks full of that, and, and that pretty much ended the rowdiness, uh, it became controlled chaos rather than wild chaos. KK: Yeah. BL: It, it did, it got out of hand if anybody has ever rafted off in front of Coral Gables, or down to the Singapore Yacht Club, I don’t think they do it down there, I think it’s more down in front of Coral Gables. When you raft off you have to go 1, 2, 3, 4. People that have not done boating don’t get that! Yeah. Have you done boating? KB: Not very much. BL: Do you know what I’m talking about? KB: Oh, yeah I do. BL: Oh, okay, yeah. KK: Ah, what are some of your hopes for the future? I know you just sold the house. Um, and what would you like to see happen in this community? BL: [pause] I can’t think of any reason why someone would want to have the road divided, from the bridge on into Douglas. That is a travesty, that’s a mess. Somebody is going to get hurt, killed, whatever, that, that’s, that was not well thought of. KK: Okay, and you’re referring to something that their working on right now. BL: Yeah! Yeah! That’s terrible. I’m you know a, if, if it were my vote I’d vote that right out right now and it’d be gone. That’s crazy. Somebody just wasn’t thinking right. KK: Um, remembering that this interview will be saved for a long time, when someone listens to this tape 50 years from now, what would you most like them to know about your life and community right now? BL: My life and community, hm, [pause] Well you know that I’m not a very friendly guy. [00:25:03] KK: [Laughs] BL: I’ve enjoyed and Ken, where I met you was at the Saugatuck Antique Pavilion, and you know how much I enjoyed, still would enjoy doing the communication and the elbow rubbing of customers and people that work there. You know I, just the very fact that, that [pause] try not to hurt anybody’s �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 8 feeling, you know somebody needs a hand, help them! Someone needs a door opened, open it for them! Somebody needs something loaded for them, load it for them! Just to be, do unto others I guess is probably a good thing. Yeah. KK: Do you have any advice for a young person who may listen to this tape, although I think you just gave some good advice. BL: [pause] Stay in school. Stay in school. That’s your paycheck for the future and you don’t realize it right now, ‘Oh my goodness this is terrible, I hate going to school. The classes are this and that’ Stay in school. That is, that is, that is the draw the education is that jewel that you can end up losing by passing it along to other people. Dig in, go for it. I just graduated 2 grandsons, one over out of Lansing Catholic and another one out of Olivet and I look at these kids and I think, we might make it. As a society, we might make it, finally. Anyway. KK: Ah, is there anything that you’d like to share that I might not have asked about? This is your chance to just go for it. BL: [Laughs] You mean I didn’t before? Uh... KK: I know you too well. BL: No, I, you know, I from time to time will be coming back here. Um, right now I’m still sorting through boxes, and I still have things in the cargo trailer that, from the move a month ago. In fact, just for one little high note, and that was, or low note that, that the property we owned it. I just cleared May the 4th this year, so from May the 4th of 1978 to May the 4th of 2018 I was here exactly 40 years. Exactly 40 years, and it was a, it was like [snaps] a snap. I had hair color when started here. KK: Yeah and for the record, if you didn’t see a picture of Bob, Bob has perfectly white hair. BL: Perfectly white hair. KK: And lots of it! BL: Yep, I’m going to hang on to it! It was a good gene pool. KK: Now, Katelyn is there anything that you wanted to ask? BL: She’s been so talkative over there, hasn’t she? Giggle, giggle, giggle. KB: No, I don’t think so. Think we’ve got some good stories. BL: There are some that I can’t repeat, but yeah. KK: Okay, well thank you so much for your time and sharing with us, uh, this concludes the interview. �Robert Lord - Interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Katelyn Bosch June 4 2018 BL: Thanks, Ken. [00:28:43] 9 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-LordR-20180604 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lord, Robert Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-06-04 Title A name given to the resource Robert Lord (Audio interview and transcript), 2018 Description An account of the resource Bob Lord moved to a historic home in Saugatuck in 1978. In this interview he covers the history of his home, known as "The 1894 House." He details some of his favorite summer activities, and offers some hopes for the future of Saugatuck. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kutzel, Ken (Interviewer) Bosch, Katelyn (Interviewer) Van Orsdol, Mollie (Transcriber) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Singapore (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5b7a1c375c4e5781b68d5a9a71e8af06.mp4 322790550dc941a976da5deb5db426ad https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e4cbd76ef6e2e3eba67251b88e927fca.pdf e36d63fded2b4a652ecd21f7a493efc4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Cold War & Desert Storm Name of Interviewee: Avery Loucks Length of Interview: 00:16:48 Background:                 He lives in Kentwood, Michigan. He joined the Navy Reserves in 1962. He went into active duty in 1963 and served for 3 years in Jacksonville, Florida. He flew in a squadron that flew all over the Caribbean. After he served his time, he went to and finished college at Michigan State University. He got his degree and signed up for commission in the Navy Reserves again, and he was recalled again when he was 51, to serve in Desert Storm for a year. In 1994, he retired from the Reserves and he has been in retired status ever since. He joined the Navy because he had heard that they had the best tech school. (1:10) His teacher in high school knew that he was having some financial difficulties and told him to join the Navy and to get his college paid for. He was thrilled at the idea at the time, because he did not know what he was getting into. Thanks to his time in the Navy, he has had a lifelong fascination in aviation. His father has a pilot’s license, and he got his private pilot’s license; his son would continue on to fly commercial airplanes and he hopes his grandson will eventually go into aviation as well. He was going to be drafted, but he decided to enlist instead. (2:15) He had some trouble getting into classes at MSU, so he had to decide between paying for classes he did not need or going into the service and being done with it. He eventually chose the latter. He chose the Navy because they had the best technical training at the time. He had nothing against the other divisions. If he had been drafted, he would not have had a choice in which branch he served in or what schools he would have attended. When he enlisted voluntarily, he was given more freedom to choose. (3:30) First Duties (3:35)      His first duties were keeping the deck clean. He remembers a bucket in one hand and a mop in the other. In the first days of duty everyone helped, even officers. It was a different kind of life, kind of boring, but he knew he was going to get something out of it, which made it worth it. His first three years was at a Naval Base in Jacksonville, Florida. It held three squadrons. �                         If you were not serving on a ship, you served on a base. If you were not on a base, you were on a ship. While he served there, he flew all over the Caribbean. All the way south as the Virgin Islands, east as Bermuda, and west as Tampa. (5:15) He worked with a squadron that took aerial photography, of mostly shipping. They took pictures of ships and aircraft flying around in the area. It was just after the Cuban Missile Crisis that he took some pictures of the blockade. They did not have video at the time. They took photos of every ship and plane in the area at the time They brought the photos back to be processed by specialists. What they did was reconnaissance. (6:30) He did not see any combat at the time. He was in the Navy at a time before anyone dared challenging us. He had asked an officer once, what was he supposed to do if they started shooting at us? The officer replied that they would not shoot at us because they were too scared that we would blow them out of the water. He was proud to serve in a military where when the Navy showed up, the bad guys would leave. Vacations (7:30) You had 30 days of leave over the year. He ended up taking a flight to Bermuda on a passenger plane. He took his bike with him too. He went for a day and a half, and toured almost the whole island. Other than the meals, it did not cost him a cent. (8:15) He ate a lot of boxed lunches. When you fly you were provided a box lunch. Sometimes it had chicken in them or roast beef sandwiches, chips and soda. Early in the day you also had cigarettes. The best chow he had was on holidays. The chefs usually prepared stuff like you had at home, steaks and such, but it was probably never as good as your mothers. Day-in, day-out the food was alright. He stayed in touch with people at home via letters and the telephone. Calling home was cheap, though not as cheap as it is now, but it was never so bad that you could not call home. (9:30) Most of the time, he called home. His parents and siblings were always happy to hear from him. He would send letters to family he felt he should not call collect. His first Thanksgiving, he teamed up with a married couple and a couple of single guys, and they were all going to celebrate Thanksgiving together. They were doing really well until they got to the part where they had to make gravy, and no one knew how to make gravy. So he knew what to do: he called home to his mother and she told them how to make gravy. They all ended up talking to each other, and had a good time. There is a lot of comradely that develops in the military. Partially because they lived in such close quarters, partially because there was a sense of danger being in the military. � Although his was never shot at, because they were all too scared to shoot him apparently. (11:10) That was the biggest thing on the holidays, that even though you were not with your family, you were never alone. Lessons (11:30)      He learned a lot about photography that even MSU did not know. In those days, the military was way ahead compared to the civilian world. Thing that civilians have today in their photography were not available to them at the time included electrical built in lighting, and instant pictures. They could shoot hundreds and hundreds of pictures and bring them back to the photo interpreter’s hands within minutes. They also had video that even Hollywood did not have available to them. Post Duty (12:45)                 He does not recall the day he left the service. It was a very busy day and he worked until 10. He was running some photos through the equivalent of a 1-hour photo process and he and his chief were the only ones who knew how to run it. He remembered getting a call and telling his boss that he needed to finish processing the photos because he had just been called to start signing out; today was his last day. He boss said that he was busy and there was no one else to process the photos. So he stayed there and processed photos for a while longer. When he got out, he drove back to MSU and did not think about it any longer. He went back to college immediately and had all of his classes set up so that he graduated on time. He knew he was going to have to serve in the military, so it was not a bad thing. (14:00) His Navy training also looked good on his resume. It was one of the things that helped him get a job right out of college. He found out that he was a better writer than a photographer. He liked shooting photos out of the back of a plane. If you have ever seen the movie Hunt for Red October, it was similar to that. They would take pictures of Russian subs that were forced to come up for air. He had made a couple of close friendships, and keeps in touch with a couple of them today. He’s made more friendships in 1993, since 1966 was such a long time ago. (15:45) Some of them have since died, and others he just lost touch with. He is not a member of any veteran’s organizations, but he does support the VFW. Unfortunately he does not qualify for that, but he does sign their petitions and buy things from them. There was no war to fight anyway, and he was out of the service by the time Vietnam was in full swing. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LoucksA0967V Title A name given to the resource Loucks, Avery (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Loucks, Avery Description An account of the resource Avery Loucks served in the US Navy between 1962 and 1966, and remained in the Reserves until 1993. He served with an aerial reconnaissance unit based in the Caribbean while on active duty, and was called up during Desert Storm in 1991. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Huss, Joshua (Interviewer) Parden, Damien (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74f1d54883e873592a3c16dce196d406.pdf b63d58e9c630f878b2ffb1a4c806c0fc PDF Text Text Linley Lounds I do not currently live on campus so I was not told to move immediately. I am a junior and live in off campus housing at Enclave in allendale so I was able to stay where I live. With classes being all moved online I felt overwhelmed at first. It seemed most of my teachers were overwhelmed too. Assignments seemed to pile up quickly within the first two weeks online. The weeks following slowed down and I felt I was caught up. My classes have continued to not feel too overwhelming but it is definitely different than attending class in person. My professors have all been very supportive during this time and fairly accommodating to any issues. I work at Allendale Biggby and I remained in Allendale after school was closed because Biggby was still open. I worked until we were closed on March 23rd and then I moved home with my parents, sister, and grandmother. Daily life was a lot of fun things together or household tasks. I helped organize my dad’s office, cleaned out our barn, and played a lot of Clue. Time at home really flew by and it was nice to spend time with my family while everyone was off work. Everyone's a little stressed about money but trying to stay positive and realize everyone is going through this as well. Eventually, my work reopened on April 13th after putting in more precautionary measures like plexiglass. Biggby never technically had to close because we are considered take out food and beverage but they wanted to make it safer for the workers and customers. So now I am back in Allendale and back to work. As for my friends, many are working from home and we all just miss hanging out and going out. We’ve kept in contact via text, facetime, and even Zoom. I personally do not know anyone with symptoms or anyone that actually has the virus, thankfully. My family has been working hard on trying to quarantine and social distance as much as possible. When going to the store we have been wearing gloves and masks and wiping �everything down when it comes into the house. There have been many shortages at all grocery stores. Mostly cleaning products, hand sanitizers, and toilet paper. It is crazy how much people are freaking out about toilet paper. Everything at stores now has limits on how many things you can buy. Milk and eggs mostly have a limit of one or two as well as toilet paper. Stores are doung better at staying stocked now weeks later but today (April 22) there was still no toilet paper at the Standale Meijer. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lounds, Linley Elizabeth Description An account of the resource Journal of GVSU student Linley Lounds' experiences with online classes and work during the COVID-19 pandemic. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College Students Personal narratives Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-22_LoundsLinleyElizabeth Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/79c9c7e37237def88a26b4dddd194ff1.mp4 8aafa5150e8f9cca9d9560be3429fbc7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f640390f574880e15eacebf7096b9e5.pdf bc87c76a19a01123448af1d4279a5dfb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: WW2 Interviewee’s Name: David Low Length of Interview: 41:25 Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Sam Noonan Interviewer: “Now David, begin with some background on yourself, and to begin with where and when were you born?” Well, I was born in Hebron, Illinois, on a farm that my dad worked at at the time - well, actually I was born in the town, but my dad was the hired hand at a farm that - big farming community there, big milk producer at that era. Interviewer: “And what year were you born?” 1927. October 29th, 1927. So that makes me 93 years old right now. Interviewer: “I can safely say that you don’t look it. Alright, so you were on a dairy farm. Now, did your family own the farm?” No, no. My dad was a hired hand on the farm, and he got at that time what they called milk fever. Milk would cause his hands to swell up, [or at least] that’s the story that I got. I’m not sure how true it is, but that’s what I was always led to believe. So he could not work on the farm anymore, and his wife at the time was Irene Lowe, and her father owned a celery farm in Muskegon. And that was just before the depression started, so he decided he would come out and work on the celery farm, because he couldn’t work in the dairy industry anymore. So they moved to Muskegon. I was not very old, I couldn’t have been over 18 months maybe or something. We moved in, and then he worked on the farm for a little while but then the depression hit and then my grandfather, my mother’s dad, couldn’t afford to hire him, but at that time they started to get some oil in Muskegon - drilling oil wells. So my dad got a job, in the oil fields and worked in the oil field at that time. Sometimes he’d work and he didn’t get paid, either. So, it was pretty tough when we were kids. We grew up pretty poor, but we didn't know we were poor and we had a good time. I had a good childhood, I can’t say anything bad about my childhood at all. Interviewer: “How many kids were in the family?” There [were] 4. Interviewer: “And where were you in the order?” �I was [the third child.] I have an older brother who was in the Marine Corps, and then I have a sister that is two years older, then I have my brother who is three years older - then I have a younger sister, eight years younger than I am. And then the oil field kinda played out in Muskegon, and the company that he worked for was Sohio Oil Company, which was, uh, transferring some people from Muskegon over to Burnips. And they were discovering oil over in Burnips so he was transferred over there, and we moved to Burnips for a couple of years and then the oil field played out there and he was told that he could either move to Ohio and follow the oil field or he could lose his job but stay in Michigan. So, he lost his job. He didn’t want to leave the - he didn’t want to leave the state. So then we went from Burnips, he moved to Wayland. That was in 1939. Interviewer: “Okay. Now, in Wayland was he doing farm work or something else?” No, we happened to move in next door to the construction contractor who was building a new school in Wayland - now it’s called Pine Street School. So he got a job in construction on the Pine Street School. Interviewer: “Alright, now then did you go to high school in Wayland?” I went to high school in Wayland, yes. I went, well the first two years - then my dad passed away in 1940, so my mother was left with three, four kids, and no real experience [or help] of any kind in getting a job, so she had to do manual work and the war started about that time. There was an egg plant, what they called an egg plant in Wayland, where they candled eggs and there was a … company and what they did was they candled the eggs, they beat them up, and they took them over to the … factory and they made powdered eggs. So during the war she made powdered eggs for the service, and I worked there at the … factory. I was only 14 years old but I got a special permit from the school to work, and we had prisoners of war come over from Fennville - they had a prisoner of war camp over there, German. And they brought them over, we worked in the plant with the guys. (5:34) Interviewer: “Now, what impression did you have of those prisoners of war?” Very good! They were very nice people, they weren’t any different than you and I, we had a little difficulty with the language problem but we were able to communicate with each other. They would bring a busload, two busloads of prisoners over every day and we would work in the warehouse loading cans and milk cartons and things like that, but they weren’t any different from you and I. Interviewer: “Okay. Did that affect how you thought about the war at all, just to see that the Germans were regular people?” �No, not, - not really. I guess I just didn’t, wasn’t cognizant of the fact that that maybe, should color my judgement but it didn’t. All I knew was that they seemed no different than what we were. Interviewer: “Okay, now to back up just a little bit, do you remember how you heard about Pearl Harbor?” Not - not really. I remember hearing it on the radio, I don’t remember where I was at the time because I was still pretty young yet, but I do remember them on the radio. Interviewer: “Okay, and then you said you had a brother who went into the Marine Corps.” Yes, he went in, I think in ‘43 he went into the Marine Corps. He went in at 17 and my mother had to sign for him. And he was overseas and in all the Pacific battles: Taiwan [Tarawa], Tinian, Saipan. Interviewer: “And was he just an infantryman or did he..?” An infantryman. He carried a bazooka for a while, and he also carried a flamethrower. That’s about the only two things he told me about his experience. One thing he did tell me that’s a little bit gruesome, I don’t know that I should say it or not, but anyways on one of the campaigns that they had he said there were so many dead Japanese that they took a bulldozer, dug a great big long trench, and just took a bulldozer and pushed them into the trench and covered them up. That’s about the only thing he told me about the service that he was in. Interviewer: “But he did come back in one piece?” Yep, he came back in one piece and he was not affected by the war at all. He seemed to adjust back to civilian life very easily. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you finish high school?” Well, that’s another story. I, uh, end of my sophomore year I decided that I was 17 and I was gonna be drafted, if I kept on, I decided that I wanted to join the Marine Corps. So at the end of my sophomore year I talked to my mother into signing [the papers] for me to go into the service. Which I did, and I went and served a little over a year in the service, and when I came back out of the service I had taken a, what is it, GInterviewer: “GED?” GED, and the service … my high school diploma, got that. So I went back the high school and Mr. Stevie, Rudy Stevie, was the principal, er, the superintendent of the school. And I asked if I could get a high school diploma because of what I did in the service and he said, ‘well, I really �can’t give you a high school diploma but I’ll tell you what I will do -’ he said, ‘you missed your junior year, if you maintain a B or better average for your senior year I’ll give you credit for your junior year and you can graduate with your class.’ So I did, and I maintained a - matter of fact I graduated tied tenth in my class with another gal. And so I did get my high school diploma, only having three years of high school. Interviewer: “And you had to do it after the time in service?” After I’d gotten back from the service, yeah. Interviewer: “Was there anybody else in your situation, were there some returning veterans?” Yes, there were four other servicemen that started school with me, but they all dropped out. I’m the only one that completed - so as far as I know, I’m the only veteran that completed high school in Wayland. (10:07) Interviewer: “Okay, at least in that fashion. Now, was there a reason why you wanted the diploma and not just the GED, did it make any difference?” Yes, I felt that later in life that it would be more important to have a sheepskin, as they called it back then. Interviewer: “Okay. So let’s back up a ways: 1945, you’re 17 years old, you say ‘okay I’m just gonna go in the service and do it.’ So you talk your mother into signing the papers to let you go in a year early, and so when did you enlist?” July - I think it was July 12th when I enlisted, I’m not exactly sure I think it was July 12th that I actually was inducted into the service. Interviewer: “Okay, and when you were enlisting were you able to choose which branch of service to go into?” They said we could, but when we got in line and the guy says ‘you’re going to the Navy, you’re going to the Marines, you’re going to the Army’ and they got to me and they said ‘what branch do you want to be in?’ and I said the Marines, and luckily he did put me in the Marines, but you didn’t really have a choice. But he did put me in the Marines. Interviewer: “Well the Marines had taken a lot of losses in the Pacific, and they needed bodies for what was to come.” Yep, that’s exactly what I was. �Interviewer: “So they were happy to take you for that, okay. And so, after you sign up, then what happens?” Well, we stayed in the hotel there in Detroit that night, then we got on a train - I always called it a coop train, and from there we went right on down to Parris Island. I don’t really remember much about the trip, I don’t remember staying overnight anywhere, to me it was an all-day allnight two-days and two-night trip down to Parris Island. Interviewer: “And were you just in regular coaches where you’re sitting on seats?” No, we weren’t just in regular coaches yet. Interviewer: “No sleeper cars, or?” No sleeper cars or anything, we - you slept wherever you could sleep, and I don’t remember now what time of the day or night we got there, I remember unloading and I remember they told us to unload, stand in line, and we had a drill sergeant came out and started talking to us. Here again there’s maybe something I shouldn’t say, but we all stood up - I went in with a fellow by the name of Bob Dove from Ludington, which I had known before I was in the service, and he and I - he was a little guy, not very big. This big, Polish guy - great big guy - walked up and down and all the sudden he called us every name that he could think of, and get us in line, and he walked [up to] Bob Dove, he hit Bob Dove in the stomach and curled him over. I thought ‘oh my gosh, this is not for me.’ But anyway… Interviewer: “Now, was that where you got off the train or was that when you got to Parris Island?” That was at Parris Island, we got off the train. Well, we got off the train [and] I think we were bussed in. Interviewer: “You’d have to take the bus there, -” You gotta take the bus to Parris Island, when we got off the bus at Parris Island where we took our boot. Interviewer: “Yeah, so that ‘welcome to the Marine Corps’ was pretty much the same still in the Vietnam era, where you’d come out and get abused by the drill sergeant, that was the first exposure to life in the Marines.” Then the second exposure was [when] we got to our barracks, and they had a big 2x4 nailed to a post in there, he ripped that 2x4 off and it had a big nail in the end of it, and he walked up and down the barracks and told us who we were and what we were there to do. One of the first things that I remember him saying is ‘whatever you do, you do on the double. I don’t wanna see �anybody walk, when I tell you something you run. You do it on the double, everything is on the double.’ And he would, I don’t know how much detail you want me to go into on this, but they would go into town on the weekend and they would come back pretty well… uh, lubricated. Interviewer: “Right.” And it could be 2:00 in the morning, or anytime they decided to come in, and they would tell us to fall out. Sometimes it was locker boxes, … drawers. So we had to pick up our locker box at the end of our bunk, take it outside, hold it, stand at attention until he decided to let us go back in. Another thing they would do when they [came] back on the weekend [was that] they would have the bucket brigade. We always had a bucket to wash our clothes and stuff in, and we would take the bucket out, stand at attention, put it over our head and holler ‘Attention!’ until he decided that he had enough, and then we’d go back in again. Just all - all discipline. (15:22) Interviewer: “Did you have the impression that all the different groups who were training were getting the same treatment?” Yes, yeah. Everybody got the same… abuse. Interviewer: “Alright. At the time, did you understand why they were doing these things?” No, not - not really, not really. But by time I was finished with boot camp and then back out after the war was over, then I realized what they were doing. Interviewer: “Alright, now what actual training did you get, in terms of military training while you were at Parris Island?” Well, mostly marching with the pack on our back, it was mostly physical training for us. We didn’t get an awful lot, we got some bayonet training and we got some climbing-the-fences and crawling on our bellies through the swamp, and wading in the swamp up to our armpits. Things like that, but it was mostly physical training. Now we were supposed to have six weeks of basic training, we only got four weeks because of the rush – they wanted the invasion of Japan to start, and so we only had four weeks of training. So we didn’t, we didn’t really have much more than just rugged physical training. Interviewer: “Alright. And at that point, while you were still at Parris Island, were they telling you anything about what was going to happen to you – did you know you were heading for the invasion of Japan?” No, we didn’t know anything until the day before we were to board a ship. They told us that we were shipping out on a certain date - I don’t remember what exact date that was now. But they �told us we were going to be shipping out, and that we would have a general meeting [the next day,] so then they [told us to] pack our bags, told us what to have in our duffel bag, and that we’d be shipping out the next day. And they had a big room they put us in, and they had all the papers if we wanted to change our beneficiary for life insurance - at that time each of us had a $10,000 life insurance policy and I had my mother as the beneficiary. If anybody wanted to change it – cause they came out and told us that there’d be a lot of us that wouldn’t come back – so if you wanted to change something, [that] was the time to do it. So then the next morning we went back to our barracks, next morning while we got all of our equipment on, went out to the … field to get ready to board the bus to take us to the ship, and they said that our orders had been delayed. They didn’t tell us… that they were just delayed. So we had no idea, we were sequestered so we didn’t have any idea what was going on, so then I think it was three days later they dropped the second bomb. And then they told us that there was something called an atomic bomb, and it was dropped twice on Japan and that Japan had surrendered and that the war was over with and we didn’t have to go anywhere. So I was really happy about that. Cause you know, you stop and think, you know - am I gonna be a hero, or am I gonna be a coward? You really don’t know until you get into it. You do what everybody else [does,] you’re assigned a job and you do the job. You don’t think about anything else. Interviewer: “Okay. Now during those few days, where you were just there waiting and you didn’t know what was going to happen, what was the mood or the attitude of the guys you were with?” You know, I don’t really remember. I – I don’t remember much of anything, we were wondering, you know, ‘what’s going on, what happened?’ but I don’t remember the mood of the group of people that I was with at all, just kinda seems like a blank to me right now. Interviewer: “So you were all focused on what might happen to you and you weren’t really talking to each other or doing other stuff.” Yeah, yeah. Interviewer: “Did they keep you busy during those days?” Can’t re- I, I don’t think so – March! Oh yeah, we went out on the … field and marched. We kept our, we kept our discipline up. Interviewer: “So now you’ve, you’ve had your four weeks of training, you’re supposed to ship out, you don’t ship out, what do they do with you next? You’ve signed up for the Marine Corps, so now what happens?” Yeah, well – they shipped me into, they shipped me to Camp Lejeune. So I went into Camp Lejeune - and I was a projectionist, when I was back in Wayland, there was a theater in Wayland and of course I had to work because my dad had passed away, and I got a job in the theater as an usher, cause I was tall and I could look – look older than what I really was. So the �guy there was named, Neiman Frank was his name. And so he gave me a job - I had to go to the school and get a permit again because I was too young to work, and so then I did pretty good as an usher so he trained me to run the projection machines upstairs in the projection booth. So when I went in the service I had that [experience] as a projectionist so I was put in the special services. And I – they assigned me to bringing in the … shows I guess is what you might call them, but there was… oh, Louis Armstrong and so I met quite a few celebrities on that, it was my job to bring them in, show them where their quarters were, show them where the stage was, and what facilities that we had for them to put their performance on. So that lasted for a little while, and then we had to requalify for the rifle range. So I requalified and I shot expert. And very, very difficult circumstances. We uh, we were there for I think a week shooting. And I didn’t know it at the time, but there was a team being organized to shoot a national competition for the Marine Corps and they were looking for people that could shoot accurately, and I happened to shoot expert – I shot at a thousand yards, hit the bullseye. And so I was assigned to the, to represent the Marines – on the team of the Eastern division of the Marine Corps, and they shipped to me to Quantico, Virginia – Washington D.C., and people from – really good shooters, from all over the United States are all in the service to shoot in this national competition. (22:35) Interviewer: “Now, when you were a kid did you hunt or shoot at all or was this all new to you?” No, no, I hunted. Yeah I was familiar with a shotgun, and rifles and things. Interviewer: “Yeah, a shotgun might not help you.” Just .22s, yeah – well yes, [shotguns do help you learn how to] carry a weapon, and how to position it, and what you should do with it. So [shotguns do] teach you, even though it was no good in the service. Interviewer: “Yeah, well it wasn’t a long range weapon though, I mean in the sense of a rifle – you’re not going to hit something at a thousand yards with a shotgun.” Yeah, no. So we shot with an M1, Browning. [the M1 was called the Garand—the Browning Automatic Rifle was a different weapon] Interviewer: “Okay. And then did you find that you were about as good as the other guys on your team?” Yes. Yeah, mhm, I was surprised. We also had to shoot with a .45. So we had the M1 and the .45. Now, it’s a funny thing cause I don’t remember where we ended up – where my team ended up in the competition, I don’t know whether we were first, second, third, or last, I don’t remember. �Interviewer: “And was the competition held at Quantico or was it-“ Yeah, mhm, Quantico. Every morning we would get up and we’d go shoot, by nine o’clock we had to be on the range ready to, ready for the competition. We’d fire until noon, and then we were turned loose. We could do whatever we wanted to, we had free range of Washington, we could leave the base, we didn’t have to have passes or anything, we could just do whatever we, whatever we wanted to do. Interviewer: “Okay. So did you go into Washington then?” Oh yes. Yes, I spent a lot of time – I had a friend that was – my schoolteacher, her sister lived in Washington, and I stayed at her apartment on the weekends. And she had a pass to the, all the streetcars, cause she worked there for the government. So she would give me her pass and I could go anywhere I wanted to, didn’t cost me any money. Interviewer: “Okay, and were they giving servicemen free admission to various places?” No, no I don’t remember that – most everything was free back then anyway, there wasn’t any charge for anything. But I visited everything that was of any interest in Washington. Interviewer: “About how long did you spend at Quantico?” Probably a couple of weeks, maybe three weeks. Then I went back to Camp Lejeune, and there was a lot of people – Marines or servicemen coming back, and they put me in charge of a barracks – a two story barracks. And all these guys were coming back from overseas, and they had been fighting over there … they had a point system then, and I think that – I think if you had around forty – I don’t remember now exactly – but forty-some points or something, you got released and didn’t come back first, and then they went on down the line [numerically.] And here I am, a seventeen year-old kid, they put me in charge of a barracks – these Marines that have been overseas crawling in the mud and fighting, killing people – and I’m supposed to maintain the barracks, have these guys come out, fall out in the morning, have roll call, and then tell them to police the grounds and to polish the brass and to clean the heads – the head was the toilet. And I thought, ‘this isn’t going to work.’ The first time I tried to get to somebody to do something, they told me where to go. So I decided that, well, it’s gotta be done, so I did it. I picked up all the cigarette butts, I let the guys do whatever they wanted to do, they could… I was not in charge of them at all. So I picked up the cigarette butts, I polished the brass, and I cleaned the heads. These guys had no business picking up cigarette butts. I realized that, I knew that – instinctively, I said ‘this was not going to work.’ So I was there for a little while, and then they put me on guard duty on a little island just off the coast of North Carolina. I was there for a little while and I got an ingrown toenail, so I couldn’t walk the guard duty. So I went to the hospital and I had pretty good duty in the hospital, I kept – I played that for as much as I could for a while. Finally they released me, and then I got discharged right after that. �Interviewer: “Okay. Let’s back up to the early part where you were a projectionist – did you actually work as a projectionist in Camp Lejeune?” Yes. Interviewer: “And were you just, were you showing like Hollywood movies, or training films?” No no, Hollywood movies. These were for guys that were coming back from overseas and they were stationed at that time, they called it Tent Camp. There was five of us, or four of us, that they assigned to this one theater. We showed one movie a night, so we only – every fourth night, I had something to do. We didn’t do anything at all during the days, except play pinochle all day. Interviewer: “Alright, now you mentioned Tent Camp – were you actually staying in tents at that point, rather than barracks?” No, I was staying right at the theater. They had rooms at the theater, they had a big office and a lounge right there in the theater. So all I did was show a movie once every four days. (28:26) Interviewer: “Alright. Now do you remember any other famous people who went through with the USO? You mentioned Louis Armstrong, who else came through?” Well, Harry James came through and then there was… it wasn’t Lana Turner but there was another gal that came in there – that was the only three that I remember that had any real fame. Interviewer: “Okay. Now while you were at Camp Lejeune, did you get to go off the base at all?” No, I don’t remember going off base much at Camp Lejeune. I did go into Raleigh, North Carolina a couple of times – we could get weekend passes if we wanted ‘em. Interviewer: “Cause, I mean, you were in the South, and the South was still segregated at that point – inside the camp, I mean aside from [a] visitor like Louis Armstrong, everybody there probably was white. But did you notice that –“ No we had, we had colored people in my unit. Interviewer: “Okay.” Oh yeah. No, we had, in boot camp – I had, there was two people of color. �Interviewer: “Were they black?” Yeah. No no, they were African Americans. Interviewer: “Okay. Cause that’s the kind of thing that isn’t really expected, because black Marines would normally train on their own at Montford Point, rather than Parris Island with the rest of you guys. And your unit at Camp Lejeune, there were black Marines there too? Or just when you were training?” I don’t remember – no there was… cause I, the fellow that I was in boot camp with was also at Camp Lejeune at the same time that I was. Cause I talked with him several times after that. So we were integrated, I didn’t even realize that we were [supposed to still be segregated] at that time. Interviewer: “Cause you weren’t officially integrated at that point, but it was happening – and I’ve actually heard that from a few other people in other service branches, that there was a little more of that kind of thing going on than you might expect.” Mhm. Interviewer: “Alright – now, thinking over the time that you spent in the Marines, are there other memories that stand out for you?” When I was on guard duty one day, there was a colored snake – it had rings – red, and white and black, rings around it. It was about [two feet] long, and so I killed it. And there was a black guy that was a … of the guardsmen there that took care of the boilers and the furnace and stuff, so I took it in and I put it on my billy stick and I took it in and showed it to them, and it was a poisonous, very poisonous snake. I don’t know – they called it a milk snake, or a – Interviewer: “It could be… it was a coral snake maybe?” A coral snake or something, and he just about had a fit. And then one other time, while I was on guard duty there, I got awful sleepy and I thought, ‘well I’m just gonna lay down for a minute, I can’t walk anymore’ and of course I had a sore foot at that time, and so I laid down and I thought, ‘well I’ll get up in a few minutes.’ I fell asleep. Luckily the guy that was to relieve me, the sergeant did not come with him – he came by himself. And I wasn’t at the post where I was supposed to be so he came into the barracks, woke me up, and then took over. But if the sergeant had [come] I’d probably still be in jail. (32:12) Interviewer: “Alright, once you were out of the basic training and you were at Camp Lejeune, how did sergeants treat people?” �Fine. Yeah, entirely different. Interviewer: “And… but you wound up then essentially going out early, you were supposed to be in, do you think, for two full years or at least eighteen months or something?” Mhm. Yeah. Interviewer: “So you got out there early, alright. So once they decide that they’re done with you, what did you do after you’re discharged? Did you go back home, or-“ Oh yeah. I came back home and then I went to high school, and then I went back to the theater and worked in the theater. And I did odd jobs around, I worked for different carpenters and built houses and things like that as a laborer, but that wasn’t something that I really – and I did work at General Motors for a little while, and then I decided that probably working at General Motors wasn’t something I liked because I stood at a machine, I put a part – I put two parts together, I put it at a spot welder, and spot welded it, threw it over my shoulder, that’s all I did all day long. And that, I guess my personality was not that type so I decided that I better, I better go to school. So I quit General Motors and then I went to Parsons Business College in Kalamazoo – they had a private business school there, and I took up accounting – business administration and accounting. And I, I did that after [General Motors.] Interviewer: “Okay so, then that was kind of your career from there?” No, I came back – I didn’t really like accounting very much, and a friend of mine was a painter in Wayland – he did painting and decorating. And I worked with him for a while, and he decided that he was gonna leave town, he didn’t want to stay in Wayland anymore, he was going someplace else, so I took over all of his equipment and I did painting and decorating in Wayland. I took a job, there was an outfit called Kessler’s Undies and Woolies that had come into town, there was a … works in Grand Rapids and they made lollipop pants for women, cotton pants – they owned a factory there in Wayland. And the Kessler company came out of Chicago, and he bought the lollipop pant factory, moved his operation into Wayland. They manufactured baby clothes and sleepwear and underwear for infants. And I contracted a job for them painting their office, and I saw the salesman come in and I heard what they were talking about and everything and I thought, ‘well you know I might like to try that’ and I liked that better than painting, cause painting was difficult. Sanding and scrubbing those walls and stuff, I didn’t like that. So I asked Mr. Kessler if I could have a job as a salesman, he said he wanted to know if I had any experience, and I said ‘no, I don’t have any experience.’ Well he says, “I can’t hire you unless you have experience,’ so I thought ‘well, alright, how am I gonna get experience?’ So I got a job with Fuller Brush Company. Interviewer: “Oh, okay.” �And I don’t know how I even contacted them and got a hold of them, but I did and I worked for them for a year, and I was very successful then, I did pretty good at it. Interviewer: “Now a lot of people today won’t even know what Fuller Brush Company was or how they operated, I mean I’m old enough to remember them – so what did they do?” Oh really? Well Fuller Brush Company had a catalog, and they sold all – very similar to Amway, in many ways, today – and they had salesmen that would go out and knock on doors. At that time you could knock on doors and people were home! And you could talk to them and they had always – we had what they called a vegetable brush that we gave to the housewife, or whoever answered the door. And then we gave them a catalog and told them who we were, and to pick out something and then we would take an order. And then we would fill the order, bring the merchandise back the next week when we came, when we came through. So I worked for them for about a year, and so then I went back to Mr. Kessler and I said ‘well, I have sales experience now, I worked for Fuller Brush, and I’m one of their top people in our area,’ I said ‘will you now consider hiring me?’ Well, you know he says ‘we do need somebody in Michigan right now, our salesman there is leaving,’ and he said ‘you can go out with my son tomorrow if you want to, can you go tomorrow?’ I said, ‘yeah, I’m ready to go,’ so I went out with his son, they had a sample case of goods and we went out and we sold about eight or ten hundred dollars’ worth of stuff, and so the next day he says, ‘well, you want to go out with my son again today?’ And I said no, I said ‘I’ll try it on my own.’ So I had a little plan figured out that I was gonna do, and so I took the sample case out and I went to a couple of small stores and told them that I was new with the business, I didn’t really know whether the products was any good or not, but would they take a look at it and see if there was a product there that they could use? And they let me open up the case and I sold them goods, I got back with fifteen hundred dollars’ worth of goods. The next day [Mr. Kessler] says we’ll hire you. I ended up being there, either their number one or number two salesman – I was with them for ten years. (38:03) Interviewer: “Alright, so you’ve done all sorts of stuff in your lifetime, alright. … primarily about your military career, let’s go and circle back a little bit now. Think about the time that you spent in the Marine Corps, what did you take out of that or how did that affect you?” I think probably discipline. Knowing what you want to do and how you want to do it, and to plan – things don’t just happen, you have to kind of plan as to what you’re going to do and what’s expected of you. Probably decency is a thing that stood out more than anything else – be fair and normally people will treat you fair if you’re fair. But I think discipline, is probably the biggest thing. Your weapon was, that was a rifle. And it was called a rifle. And they said, ‘do not call it a gun or you’re in trouble.’ So I don’t know any… one of our discipline… our marching… something came up that, I said, ‘my gun,’ something or other. And the drill sergeant picked up on that immediately - I slept with nine rifles that night. So that was my, that was my reward for calling my rifle my gun. Yeah, when they first got in, the… mess hall, I would, I think it was �[during] the evening meal, I was still hungry – cause I was a pretty good eater. And so I went in and had my meal and I went in for seconds, and the sergeant that was in charge of the mess hall said ‘are you a chow hound?’ I said ‘yes sir!’ He said, ‘well get up on the table and bark.’ So’s about three hundred people in the mess hall at the time, so I get up on the table and I barked. I never went back for seconds again. Interviewer: “Alright, now I guess – that led me to think a little bit, so in boot camp when people messed up, did you normally get disciplined like that, just doing something-“ K.P. Kitchen police. Yeah kitchen duty, they called it K.P. at the time. And sometimes even if you didn’t mess up you got K.P.’d, because they needed somebody and they made it kind of around so that everybody got K.P. And I did get K.P. for a week – no, not a week – three days, I think. And I was what they called a bread and butter guy, and all I had to do was make sure there was bread and butter on the table. So that was pretty good duty. Interviewer: “Okay. But they didn’t – so they weren’t beating people up, or doing any really abusive stuff at that point?” No, no. Interviewer: “Periods where you get stories like that, sometimes coming out of Marine training-“ The only, the only physical thing was hitting Bob Dove in his stomach. And Bob Dove just passed away here a few months ago. Interviewer: “Alright.” (41:25) [END] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LowD2355V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Low, David Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04 Title A name given to the resource Low, David (Interview transcript and video), 2021 Description An account of the resource David Low was born in Hebron, Illinois, on October 29th, 1927, and his family moved to Muskegon, Michigan before settling in Wayland, Michigan as he started high school. When Low was 14, he helped make powdered eggs for the military at a local factory, where he worked alongside German prisoners of war. Near the end of his sophomore year of high school, Low decided that because he was going to be drafted, it made more sense to join the Marines outright. Low arrived at Parris Island for boot camp shortly after enlisting and received four weeks of training in boot camp instead of the typical six weeks because of pressure surrounding the invasion of Japan. Fortunately for Low and his fellow soldiers, the atomic bomb strikes led to Japan’s surrender just before they were to depart. Following this confusion and sudden change of plans, Low was sent to Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, North Carolina. Here he worked as a projectionist due to his past work experience. Low was able to meet celebrities like Louis Armstrong due to his work helping the USO entertain servicemembers and enjoyed the time he spent living in the theater. Afterwards Low was required to requalify at the rifle range, and shot at an expert level, gaining him a position on a Marine team that was sent to shoot at a national competition. This led him to Quantico, Virginia, where he was able to live near Washington D.C. and enjoy the local sights and events. Low was eventually able to return home to Wayland, MI, where he resumed school and work, he was able to find a position at General Motors and worked there for a while, but grew tired of the repetitive work and desired something more enjoyable. To solve this problem, Low attended Parsons Business College in Kalamazoo, MI, studying business administration and accounting in order to further his career. Though he did not enjoy accounting work as much as he hoped, Low was able to find work in sales after finishing school and enjoyed it significantly more, working for Kessler’s Undies and Woolies for ten years. Reflecting on his time in the service, Low feels that he gained a greater sense of discipline due to his experience. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/25fe20afb99a203d1c025c4d85962bc0.pdf c322e8723b1bca6f0c1acef08a43ef53 PDF Text Text April 11, 2020 I am currently on Day 30 of quarantining at home and there are still at least 19 days to go. I think it is likely Governor Whitmer’s “Stay Home Stay Safe” shelter in place order will get extended. The order was originally signed on March 23 and was meant to last through April 13, and is now lasting through April 30. Nearly every day over the last month has been an emotional rollercoaster, fluctuating sometimes hourly between feelings of helplessness, depression, gratitude, peace, and hopefulness. Some days have been harder than others, and I truly have to take everything day by day. As of April 3, the CDC recommends that everyone wear masks in public now, not just those that are ill, and it’s unsettling to walk around grocery stores seeing everyone’s face covered. I miss being around people and feeling connected. Taking daily walks and connecting with friends over FaceTime has been helpful. I’m staying in Grand Rapids away from my family for the shelter in place. Originally, I’m from Wayne County which is currently experiencing one of the worst outbreaks of Covid-19 in the United States. My mom works in a hospital and my dad works with prisoners, so we decided it would be safer for me to stay in Grand Rapids to limit exposure. It’s been hard to be away from my family, and I can’t help but worry about them, but we are all being cautious and staying safe as best we can. I am an occupational therapy student in my second semester of graduate school, and just finished up my fourth week of online classes. It’s taken me a lot of time to process my thoughts and feelings amid everything that’s going on, but I feel like I can articulate it better now. The first two weeks of this were just surreal and felt like I was living in a dystopian fever dream, but I’m finally settling in to a new “normal.” First and foremost, my faculty have gone above and beyond to make the transition to online learning as easy as it can be, and their unwavering dedication to students remains truer than ever. They check in often with emails and video messages, and they have all made themselves available to talk over a myriad of platforms. They are keeping us on track with our content by posting presentations and online modules though I haven’t had any synchronous lectures yet. They are also doing “wellness checks” and making sure we are all hanging in there mentally. It is so evident they love and care for us as people first and students second, and I am so grateful to go to a school with such dedicated faculty. The other students in my cohort and I compiled a video to say hi, share our thanks, and just let our faculty see our faces. It was a fun project to put together and reminded me that while we are all physically apart, the sense of family and community remains. My cohort and my faculty truly feel like family to me, and I miss seeing them in class every day. I am a huge extrovert, so it’s been really tough emotionally and mentally to be away from everyone. However, on March 31, five other girls from my program and I chalked messages of encouragement (while maintaining social distancing and staying 6 feet apart) on the Medical Mile for our healthcare workers and it was very moving to see them smiling waving at us from within the hospital and know that our little act of kindness mattered. I am constantly being reminded that there is still good coming from this, and you don’t have to know how to sew face masks or make face shields in order to do your part. Here are some photos of the messages we shared: ��Without invalidating the bright spots that give me bursts of hope, the transition to online learning has been uncomfortable and disorienting. It’s so hard to be pulled out of our normal class routine when so much of our learning is clinical and hands on through lab and fieldwork experiences. I was in a fieldwork placement working with children aged 0-3 that was canceled. My second rotation that was set to take place in the summer has already been canceled and will be replaced with online simulations. Our professors have adapted labs to be done online at home, but it does not have the same effect as being in class. Additionally, with spring semester being online and summer semester still up in the air, I calculated that up to 33% of my master’s degree might be completed online. Not exactly the educational experience I had envisioned, but I have no choice but to go with it and trust that my incredible faculty will ensure I receive the high-quality education characteristic of Grand Valley. As sad as I am to be out of school for 2-3 months, at the end of March GVSU closed the CHS building to accommodate potential patient overflow from Spectrum Health, our lab departments donated 90,000 gloves to local hospitals, and our engineering college is currently producing face masks to help the PPE shortage. As always, I am still proud to be a Laker. Unsurprisingly, there have been some technical difficulties and blunders during this transition that have been a test of flexibility and adaptability. On April 6, my research team (myself and 3 other students) defended the proposal for our master’s project to our committee members via Zoom meeting. For attire, this meant a blazer on top and my pajama pants on the bottom! When we finished defending our presentation, the committee instructed us to leave the meeting so they could discuss our proposal and log back on in 10 minutes. I logged back onto the meeting as they were mid-deliberation and I couldn’t help but start laughing! We were all laughing, and it was definitely some comedic relief. The joys of relying on technology for everything these days. In case anyone is wondering, we passed the defense and get to proceed with our research! Additionally, I have been very fortunate in that I have been able to keep working during this shutdown. I work for the University Libraries as a Research Consultant, and our peer learning services have gone entirely online. It’s been a trial and error process, but I think it’s going well, and I feel grateful to still have a source of income. I used to sit at a table and work side by side with students to help them find research or talk about sources, and now I do it over Google Meet! A student shares their screen with me over the meeting, and I talk them through using Library Databases, developing search terms, etc. It’s been an interesting learning curve, but a very valuable experience and I’m glad we are able to continue supporting students as we wrap up the semester. Plus, it is nice to be able to stay connected with my boss and coworkers! Personally, I have struggled to find a structured routine at home that allows me to get things done at home, and it’s been very challenging to stay focused. It has been mostly challenging to compartmentalize and complete assignments knowing that thousands of people are dying and that our healthcare workers on the frontlines don’t have adequate protective equipment. I frequently get distracted when I’m working as I think about what the world will be like after this and worry about all the things in the future that will be permanently altered, both in my personal life and on a broader scale (national and global). I read an article about how we’re all �essentially going through the grieving process and it is so true. We’re grieving the loss of our routines, events being cancelled, the people we are losing to the virus, the economy, the state of the world in general. I try not to think about how I am being affected personally when it’s so much worse for so many people, but it’s hard not to be upset and anxious and distracted when the long-term prognosis for this is grim and sobering. It is all very overwhelming to think about while also trying to finish the semester. To wrap this up on a more positive note, over the last month I have seen some of the best of humanity. Yes, some people are hoarding toilet paper and being incredibly selfish, but that is all being outweighed by more people stepping up to be there for each other. Local restaurants have been ensuring children still get fed while school is cancelled for the year, automotive factories have halted production to make ventilators, people are sewing facemasks at home to donate to healthcare workers, and so much more. In order to help any way I can, I donated blood this last Tuesday (April 7) and the nurses said they’ve had to turn people away because all their appointments were full. These are wild, unprecedented times, but I am seeing that when the whole world has stopped, all that’s left is the people. We are all alone together, and we will get through it together. This is a quote I came across a few weeks ago as everything began shutting down that I’ve found helpful and comforting: “Conversations will not be cancelled. Relationships will not be cancelled. Love will not be cancelled. Songs will not be cancelled. Reading will not be cancelled. Self-care will not be cancelled. Hope will not be cancelled.” It is an important reminder that we will get to the other side of this together, and I am hopeful that we will be better for it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The First 30 Days Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lowengruber, Natalie Description An account of the resource Journal of GVSU student Natalie Lowengruber's experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-11_LoewengruberNatalie Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07edd5efb603db138c71cac791e42647.mp4 6828e9a45f67f210afb89cd25b1a4693 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5e1a0f15123015c693818c7363d4739.pdf dd537ed0e7e5b1fe20e6efeb0802a7b2 PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos and Stephen Rowe Interviewee: Arend Lubbers Date: 1984 Part: 1 of 3 [Conversation between President Lubbers and Professor Stephen Rowe] [Lubbers] You can just… you’re going to just kind of edit and put comments in? [Barbara] And it should be very informal and if you say something you don't like you can say: "I don't like that, let’s do that again." Okay? [Lubbers] Alright. Did you want to start with a question or? [Rowe] Yeah, it seems that the basic question would be that in the wake of rebellion and confusion and break up of what some have called a “traditional model” of our education in the late sixties, there was this period of so-called innovation and Grand Valley, in that period, adopted the cluster college model. So, it seems to me, the first question for you to characterize the deliberation within which Grand Valley made that decision. [Lubbers] Well, of course, the college when it was established had a concept – or the people who established it had a concept – of a cluster of colleges. As I remember the original plan called for… [Rowe] This was sixty-three? [Lubbers] Yeah. Four colleges of fifteen hundred each. Thinking that that would be a nice educational unit. [Rowe] This was Oxford inspired? [Lubbers] I don't really know. I’ve talked to Bill Seidman about it, but it's been such a long time ago that I don't remember how it came about. I think that there were some who felt fifteen hundred was a large enough group for a college and that if you wanted to keep personal contact and tutoring, you had to keep it at that number. No one did much planning about the time the first college reached fifteen hundred. What do you do then? Do you start another college with the two hundred more that you might have? So, it was an original concept, but it was not one that was clearly thought out in detail. But when I arrived, there was the talk of having this School of General Studies. And so that was in the works by the time I �came here. And then I noticed the plan, of course, the original plan and thought that this was a movement towards that objective. [Rowe] Did the alumni give the idea to get it more from the culture or from the original plan? You suggest that it was the latter… or the former. [Lubbers] I don't know whether people like Dan Clock and Gil Davis was here. I assume that you talked with Gil, maybe not, but Gil was here, and he might remember more about the origin of that School of General Studies. [Rowe] That was seven… what was the date on that? Sixty-seven? [Lubbers] They were talking about it… I came in January of sixty-nine. And I know it went into effect, I think, then in the fall of sixty-nine. And it's terrible how these things kind of… the past blends together, and I can't remember the dates exactly. But I know my own thoughts at that time were sympathetic to the original concept. And I also felt that there probably were different ways to learn, and if we can establish colleges with different pedagogical approaches and styles, that might be useful in higher education rather than to take it on a number’s basis. In other words, you have your first fifteen hundred and then you set up a parallel college with the next fifteen hundred. I thought it would be more useful to students and higher educational experimentation to establish the schools on the basis of pedagogy, rather than the numbers. [Rowe] At what point did you or the college become aware of cluster college as something distinct that we were doing, say, like Santa Cruz or other places that were similar? [Lubbers] Well, really from the time I arrived in January of sixty-nine and saw the formation of the School of General Studies, I was very much interested in the cluster college concept and worked toward it. And then, of course, then the School of General Studies became Thomas Jefferson College. [Rowe] Can you characterize the moment at which the College III task force was founded. College III, of course, became William James. [Lubbers] William James. I recall a conversation that I had with Tom Cunningham about the concept of a William James College. [Rowe] So named? [Lubbers] I don't remember calling it anything else or thinking about it. [Rowe] Seems likely. �[Lubbers] I do remember the ideas that I had at that time. I was very much interested in the vocations of the future. What were they going to be? What were people going to be doing with their lives? And concerned a bit about the narrow vocational direction. And of course, we have many of these schools now that are professional and choose a profession and educate for it. We're more into that. But I was concerned about the narrowness and that there ought to be a place where you educated for broad fields and that the approach to communications was a very broad one, in my view anyway, and then we had the computers and the social relations. And I can remember some of the literature in that period pointing in directions… jobs are going to be in these general fields. And so, there was that professional aspect of it, but a broader based professional approach. And so that appealed to me a great deal. And how you educate for professions and at the same time keep the liberal arts core was the part of the experiment that I liked. And an attempt to bring a synthesis between the professional approach and the traditional liberal learning approach. [Rowe] What was it about Tom's idea or James' philosophy that made the fit there, between your thinking…? [Lubbers] I think it was the pragmatic approach. In other words, let's try to educate people to do things that work, that function, that will serve them well. I think that was probably it. But, again, you know, you have… such as William James College and Thomas Jefferson College, in a sense, cut out of whole cloth. In other words, you come at it with a strong sense of pedagogy. This is what it's going to be. And then to see how it works out, and it never works out the way the plan calls for to work out. [Rowe] How did James work out? [Lubbers] Well, some people, I think, were very well served by it. I think there's a problem in the experimental education. I think that's been true throughout the country. Was true throughout the country in the nineteen seventies, particularly late sixties into seventies. Accompanying most of these experiments, of course, was a different evaluation system. They didn't have the traditional A through F grading, nor the traditional examination. And I have a feeling that one of great problems was really quite simple: that experimental education never did work out a very good evaluation system. And some people do not require evaluation, they just are selfmotivated. And I think that we saw a group of students – particularly in the middle seventies – who were more inclined toward independent study and had the kind of motivation to carry through a sensible educational program with the assistance of faculty. But for the most part, and certainly on into the eighties, I think we find people needing more traditional evaluation structures. They like to have "A’s," "B’s," "C’s," and "D’s," and as much as they don't like examinations, they need to �have examinations. And I believe that what happens is that the standards begins to be relaxed. And then a lot of students who are really not inclined to be students pass through a system and are not evaluated. [Rowe] How is that problem with evaluation, which you associate with experimental education, related to the basic model: integrating vocational and liberal? Is there any connection? Is there some integral connection? [Lubbers] I don't think so. Are you asking whether that kind of a model for William James required a different kind of evaluation system from the traditional one? [Rowe] Yeah. Well, you mention two things that seem separate: one, the basic pedagogy and the philosophy of education, integrating liberal and career studies, and secondly, the experimental orientation, which had this problem with evaluation. I don't see what you say about how the two are connected. [Lubbers] They're not connected. [Rowe] So they just happened to… [Lubbers] They came together and one of the reasons I think that experimental colleges have changed, closed, or merged is because they did not have a more traditional evaluation system. I think that there would have been a better chance of William James College surviving, if the evaluation system had been similar to the evaluation system that was in the College of Arts and Sciences, which of course was the more traditional evaluation system. I think that it would have been… because a comment was made about people not liking William James College. I think that's true. I think that a large number of people in the College of Arts and Sciences did not think highly of William James College. [Rowe] Because? [Lubbers] Because they didn't believe that the quality of work was a college level. And whether that evaluation is correct or not, that was the perception. [Rowe] And you're suggesting that perception was related more to the evaluation and experimental orientation than it was to the basic pedagogy? [Lubbers] I'm saying that I think that is one of the contributing factors to it. And you know, again, the curriculum was put together, somewhat as you go, and I think that was probably another reason why people in the more traditional institution did not respect William James College. [Rowe] In that sense it was experimental? �[Lubbers] I would say yeah. I would say it was in that respect. I wonder if there could have been a more fixed curriculum, and also whether there could have been a more traditional evaluation system, whether that might have made a significant difference in the survival of all experimental colleges. I think this is a characteristic of experimental colleges, and not a fixed curriculum, and not a traditional evaluation system. It might have been possible to have a different pedagogy, a different approach, and still have those two traditional elements. [Rowe] Or to not have those elements and have a different pedagogy. For example, TJC. So, maybe the question is: was the pedagogy of TJC more consistent with the experimental approach in evaluation and curriculum? [Lubbers] I don't know whether it was or not. But I do think that it's possible, a least I… this is again, conjecture, but I think that some of the pedagogy of the experimental colleges was valid, and is valid, but I don't think the systems that were used, or the lack of system, served the experiments very well. [Barbara] Steve, we have to stop and change tape. [Rowe] Okay. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_45_Lubbers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lubbers, Arend Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Arend Lubbers interview (1 of 3, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Arend Lubbers by Barbara Roos and Stephen Rowe, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Arend "Don" Lubbers was president of Grand Valley State University from 1969-2001 and served as president during the lifespan of William James College. In this interview, President Lubbers discusses the cluster college model that was utilized at Grand Valley from the time he arrived in 1969, the origin of William James College which was previously known as College III, and his impression of the college's performance. This interview is part 1 of 3 for Arend Lubbers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Rowe, Stephen (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories College presidents College administrators Lubbers, Arend D. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2bea94e0a171b2bacf29bb52309c8590.mp4 cdba35c0a98053d349ce1cbc09926850 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e5df6ee3903a50ff1948b0341f2ecd1.pdf 0bb3d864084af5090388f6d4f9931c31 PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos and Stephen Rowe Interviewee: Arend Lubbers Date: 1984 Part: 2 of 3 [Conversation between President Lubbers and Professor Stephen Rowe] [Rowe] Could you comment on the connection there? [Lubbers] Well, I'm just talking experimental education, you know, you can have many different pedagogies. You can have colleges, or schools, or courses, that are different from the traditional. You can have very different kinds of pedagogies. There is not, in my definition, experimental education does not have a pedagogy. [Rowe] And yet so much of it fell into problems with evaluation and curriculum. [Lubbers] Right. [Rowe] Why was that do you suppose? [Lubbers] Well, I wonder if that was more the spirit of the times. In other words, when people were ready to experiment, and wanted to experiment, and maybe accompanying an experimental era is this desire for freedom and individualism. In other words, an experiment is a breaking away, of doing something different from the way most people are doing it. So, there is a freedom about that. I want to break away and be free. Well, what do you want to be free of? You not only want to be free of the traditional curriculum, you want to be free of the way it's delivered. [Rowe] Or, as many people put it, they tend to be very clear about what they be free from, but not very clear about free for. [Lubbers] So often, experimental education has so much rebellion built into it. And rebellion, you know, finally has to be, I suppose, consummated. I mean you have to have your rebellion, and be done, and move on. And so… [Rowe] How would we have that here? [Lubbers] Oh, I would say we had, again, that desire to be free of the usual constraints. And that was built into William James College, as it was into Thomas Jefferson College. And I don't think… and that led to a way of evaluating, or not evaluating �very well, and it led to a way of putting a curriculum together perhaps in too haphazard manner. But I think that here – and maybe in most universities – the experiments that were tried were not accepted by an overwhelming majority of the faculty. And I think that's a problem. It's almost insoluble. And it's a problem that I think experimental education will always have, because if you set up a freestanding experiment, that is very difficult. Most experiments need the strength – at least the financial strength – of a traditional university or college. Maybe Evergreen State is an exception to that and that's why I would like to see them… see how they've done it. And at the same time, it's very hard to get a large majority of the faculty to support the experiment, to really be enthusiastic about it. If the majority of the faculty or if the CAS faculty, for instance, had a high regard for William James College, it might have survived. Though, we were in a real financial crunch and things had to happen. We couldn't afford to do some of the things that we had done. So, the reorganization of the institution might have taken place anyway, but certainly it was the financial crisis that triggered the changes. But if there had been a high regard for what was going on at William James College by the rest of the faculty, they might have fought to keep it. Because they would look upon it as a distinguishing part of Grand Valley that they liked, but that was not the case. [Rowe] What do you think they understood William James to be? [Lubbers] Just, low standards, low academic standards. And no comprehensive, comprehendible curriculum. [Rowe] Did they understand the pedagogy or the basic approach? [Lubbers] I don't know whether they did or not. If they did, those who did might have respected that to a certain degree but didn't feel that it was being carried out well enough to save it. [Rowe] Some people noticed that the very first sign of trouble in William James was when the nation, as a whole – “Change Magazine" identifies this as seventy-six – became involved with the “New Vocationalism” was the term. So that everybody suddenly became interested in integrating career and liberal education, even on the campus as a whole. [Lubbers] Uh-huh. [Rowe] Some people reviewing the history of William James notice as early as seventysix we were, in some ways, co-opted by a much larger national movement. [Lubbers] Yeah. �[Rowe] Could you comment on that? [Lubbers] Well, I think co-opted and maybe that is one of the great values in William James College: was that it was before its time in terms of philosophy. And I think that the heritage that William James College has left to the campus as a whole, is probably this integration… this attempt to integrate the professional and the liberal learning. There's been the two tracks, of course, in education and the synthesis between the two is essential. But as we are now organized with our professional schools living intermixed in the divisions with the arts and sciences, I think is a good illustration of what William James meant and has been that part of the William James heritage that continues and is a major contribution to this institution. Again, I think maybe faculty accept it, the ones that do accept it, not all do, but the ones that do accept it, some will do it because they believe in it philosophically, but many of the arts and sciences professors have had to face the unpleasant reality for them that many of their students are majoring in professions. And therefore, they have to live together with the faculty in the professional fields. And for whatever reason, it's happened, and is happening, whether the motive is high or low, I welcome it because it does mean that people have to… educators have to live together and have to work out some of the problems that exist between professional curriculum and an arts and sciences curriculum. [Rowe] Do you have any frustration or concern about what developed as the understanding of "career" in this new vocational movement? Some of us in William James felt that the definition of career that developed was precisely the more narrow form that you and others, at the founding, tried to avoid. [Lubbers] Well, I think that it has come to that. And I don't think that every student, or all faculty, or every program, is narrowly career. The narrowly career programs can exist side by side with the ones that are broader philosophically. And yet this happens to be the day of the narrower career approach. But those things begin to change some. Although we are facing a time when jobs are so specialized and require such carefully honed talents that I wonder whether we're going to continue to need places in our educational system where people are, in a sense, trained but at a very high level. If you're going to be, well, on our campus for instance… if you're going to be a physical therapist, you can't just take a general major in health. There can't be a general health vocations major, and then practice that profession. [Rowe] You still need the terminal bachelor’s degree which I suppose they may have to assume. We've mentioned seventy-six as the time when the new vocationalism became very popular in the country and on the campus, and the reorganization in seventy-nine? �[Lubbers] It was after that wasn't it? [Rowe] Eighty? [Lubbers] Eighty, eighty? [Barbara] Eighty. [Lubbers] Was it nineteen eighty? Is it that long ago? [Rowe] Can you say anything about the lay of the land between seventy-six to eighty in terms of what happened to William James, both internally and externally? [Lubbers] Well, I think that there was a growing problem for William James. Students – high school students – were not quite so interested in experimental colleges, or they were much more interested in the traditional educational institutions. And in the more narrowly defined professional fields. And so, it was becoming a problem to attract students. And I think that was a major reason, too, for the demise of the institution finally. There just wasn't the student interest in it anymore and it was declining. And, well, I think those of you who are on the faculty worked very hard to recruit students and try to gain interest. And there were several older students who liked the style of William James. And, maybe again, if the institution had been well-respected, by all the faculty, it might have survived and became a real haven for older adults. But, again, the financial crunch and the declining interest of students in the eighteen-year-old group, or the high school group, and really the lack of appreciation for William James by the faculty, and the financial crunch. And I think you begin to put all those factors together. Often one factor will not bring about the demise. But they were pretty strong factors bunched together working against William James’ continuation. And I really don't see that it could've survived, probably not even in good times. I'm not sure. [Rowe] Because of? [Lubbers] Because of the faculty really working against it. [Rowe] In terms of evaluation? [Lubbers] Yeah, I think so. The failure of the cluster college system to survive… I think, really, the single factor that was maybe most important of all these clusters of factors was the inability of faculty and students on one campus like this one to ever have a real feeling that though they were a part of an experimental college or they were part of the traditional college, they also were part of Grand Valley as a whole. That never could be done. And I guess I did not foresee that at all at the beginning. I never dreamed – and that was probably my own naiveté – that the �competition between and amongst each of those colleges would be almost… or it was really, more intense than our competition – Grand Valley's competition – with other institutions outside. But I suppose, one should understand that possibility and I don't know why didn't. Because in my experience, like probably yours and everyone else's, we need to have our enemies close. And if we don't, we really have… I've noticed, if you're with any kind of an organization, maybe within a church. I've often enjoyed watching denominations; they fight internally more than the enemy out there. And we were fighting ourselves all the time. And… [Rowe] The drift of things that I'm hearing from you is that the fight was primarily… [Barbara] I'm going to have to stop you. Finish your question… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_46_Lubbers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lubbers, Arend Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Arend Lubbers interview (2 of 3, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Arend Lubbers by Barbara Roos and Stephen Rowe, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Arend "Don" Lubbers was president of Grand Valley State University from 1969-2001 and served as president during the lifespan of William James College. In this interview, President Lubbers discusses the "spirit of the times" that played a role in the experimental education of William James College, the perception from the faculty outside the college, and how WJC was ahead of its time in terms of philosophy amidst the "New Vocationalism" movement. This interview is part 2 of 3 for Arend Lubbers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Rowe, Stephen (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories College presidents College administrators Lubbers, Arend D. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7bc10ca36c87103e5d847537d0002494.mp4 3389952cc9a5c472ecd04993bca176e6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/52659b18946217b719f10feba4aebfa8.pdf b2e45ffb1db38ed59ed54fb01414f2fb PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos and Stephen Rowe Interviewee: Arend Lubbers Date: 1984 Part: 3 of 3 [Conversation between President Lubbers and Professor Stephen Rowe] [Rowe] Was that characteristic of College IV as well as Thomas Jefferson and James? The model was this distinction among and between units about pedagogy. You're suggesting that underlining that there was a deeper distinction between the traditional education and the experimental. Is that a fair understanding of what you are saying? [Lubbers] Yeah, I think so, I think it was. The experimental education with its structures – its evaluation structures and its curriculum – were just not acceptable or respected. The College IV, later the Kirkhof experiment, I don't think that the ire of the faculty in CAS was directed so much to that institution as it was to Thomas Jefferson and then to William James. But I think the criticism by that time was, "Well, we don't… this organizational structure is inefficient and there's no need for us to be this way. And it would be so much better if we're offering similar kinds of education." That is, I mean, we're offering English everywhere, languages. We should be putting the faculty together and doing departments the traditional way and have stronger departments. And so, there was not only the antagonism directed toward the experimentalism of the institutions, and that was the great part of it, but also toward the inefficiency. And then in the struggle for credits and courses, who's going to get the students, and can we get them, or do they get them? [Rowe] Did the traditionalism learn anything through contact with James and the other colleges? [Lubbers] I don't know. I would, as I said, I think the heritage left is what I described, is the way we are organized in professional disciplines and the liberal learning disciplines together. I don't know to what degree people accept that, endorse it, or grudgingly accept it. I don't know… that you'd have to take a vote of the faculty to find out. But at least that's the heritage. I would say most of the faculty who were opposed to the experimental colleges would probably say good riddance. You know, I'm not sure that there is any cherishing of the past in any way. I think this is about time that this was put aside. That's the way I view it. I haven't taken any scientific surveys to know how people really feel. �[Rowe] Changing the subject a little, can you comment on legacy or heritage in relation to the larger community? Perception of William James’ alumni or with the college in the larger community? [Lubbers] You mean, how the larger community viewed the experimental colleges? Or? [Rowe] You're right, and its products, the students. [Lubbers] No, I really don't have anything to base a judgment on. I do think that the community had a difficult time understanding our structure at that time. [Rowe] Grand Valley's? [Lubbers] Grand Valley's. And the public, generally, was not too sympathetic to the experimentalism that went on here. Well, there are always exceptions and pockets of people who liked it. But, I think, generally in this this area of the United States, experimental education is not looked upon with great favor. And we weren't looked upon with great favor for indulging in it. So far as graduates are concerned, I don't know. Like you, I run across graduates of William James or Thomas Jefferson, who are very… seem to be happy and pleased with what they're doing and respected the education they received in those colleges. So, there is that heritage, too; the heritage of the people who enjoyed and benefited from it. I think, again, as I look back on the '70s – maybe period from seventy-one to seventy-three or four – was the high watermark in terms of Thomas Jefferson College. William James might be a little bit later than that – maybe seventy-five, seventy-six – where both colleges had their best students, the largest number of good students, and those people have done very well. And after that, there were fewer good students attracted to that kind of education. And I don't regret having done it. As a matter of fact, I think in a crucial stage and I believe there was something happening to people, to young people, whether it was the Vietnam War or what it was. But, from the late '60s into the '70s, well into the ‘70s. This is a generation cut from a different cloth, I think. You know, in all of my experience, they're different. And that kind of educational approach saved a lot of people a lot of difficulty and agony. They would not have fit into the traditional mold. And they did have places to go, other places in the country, too. But they had some places to go here, and their older brothers and sisters and their younger brothers and sisters have gone in the traditional route, but they were that group that needed it, needed something different. And that was a great service to them. [Rowe] Here again, we're back to the term that emerges from this discussion, is really basic, and that is: experimentalism, which so far has been characterized as this certain kind of evaluation and this certain kind of flexible, if not loose, curriculum. And now as a refuge, that seems in this whole discussion to be the one term that needs one level deeper. Or can you say more about what this experimentalism is �or was at its best? In some ways, all of the characterizations we have so far are negative. Lack of evaluation, overly flexible curriculum, refuge from the society. [Lubbers] Well, of course. [Rowe] What is the positive? [Lubbers] The negative… the positive is the other side of the negative. These people who flourished in that kind of environment were those people who flourished best when there was no traditional curriculum and no traditional evaluation system. They did flourish very well for a small period of time. [Rowe] Self-motivated was the term that you used earlier. [Lubbers] They were self-motivated, and they were in a state of rebellion, too. Now, if you're rebelling, you have some idea about what you're rebelling against. But then where do you channel your energy? What do you do with that energy that is born out of rebellion? Where do you take yourself? Where do you take your body and where do you take your mind and what do you do with it? If you have a place to go where you can do some positive things, where you're not restricted by that which you are rebelling against and you can find another object for your attention, you're likely to not waste so much time. [Rowe] What was the object of attention? [Lubbers] The object of attention was the learning in these institutions. And they could take themselves and go to a curriculum and work with some faculty members to do what they wanted to do and move on. [Rowe] The study plans and riddling people to do what they want to do and become entitled or empowered, except for individually, was certainly something that was important to James. [Lubbers] Yes, it was. [Rowe] Perhaps to all experimental education, I'm not sure. [Lubbers] I think it is to all, I think it characterized experimental education of that era – of the late '60s and '70s. [Rowe] So this was basically a vision. This experimentalism was a vision of perhaps a very modern vision or a revival of the very modern vision of the independence and development of the individual person. �[Lubbers] Right. Yes, I think so. [Rowe] And what was the social or communal or cultural implication of that or was there any? Was it merely individual, as so much of modernism has been in ways problematic? [Lubbers] It may, I think, more individual than I thought it would be at the time. [Rowe] Then this is a question for me as well. What was the communal vision that accompanied that individualism? What was it? [Lubbers] Oh, I think, again, a more egalitarian society where the hierarchies would no longer exist, where there would be decision by consent of the group. I think there was a lot of that at that particular time. And I don't know exactly why except, again, a reaction against the Vietnam War and a government that was waging war and not always telling the truth. And that became obvious and here you are where power is. You know, power is far away from you and it's coming in on your life from that distance that you can't get at. You can't get at it. You can't influence it. And I think that at that particular time, the experimental education carried the communal vision of "we're going to be small groups deciding our own destiny." And we begin in our experimental college by governing our experimental college that way. [Rowe] In retreat from or separate from the larger communal structures, not in a way that would reform them? [Lubbers] No, I think the hope was that they would be reformed, that the experiments would work, and that out of this would come a new age. And certainly, the campuses would be democratized and that was a hope. But, we Americans, when we have our objectives and hopes, and we usually solve our problems as quickly as possible. And we're not… we usually think that our vision will become reality within our lifetimes. And I think I'm finding out that when you do experiment, you maybe make a small step towards realizing what you want and what you hold is ideal and as desirable. But then you don't get there all at once and you don't get there in one lifetime. [Rowe] Rats, well this is just getting started. [End of Lubbers Interview] [Start of Rowe Interview] �William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos and Arend Lubbers Interviewee: Stephen Rowe Date: 1984 [Conversation between Professor Stephen Rowe and President Lubbers] [Lubbers] [Inaudible] everyone, there are no students here. I mean, some may come back or their students, but really there's no student tradition anymore or there are no students here who talk about William James or Thomas Jefferson. [Rowe] Or in the community, for that matter. This William James association about which I was nagging you about this plaque and not letting them paint the wall, it ceased to exist. I mean, they can't even get a damn plaque on the wall, you know. They don't… [Lubbers] It's interesting. It is almost as though it hasn't happened. And as we go about our daily business, as I go about my daily business, that which was so important in it during the decade of the '70s, it's almost as though it never existed. [Barbara] Hey, could you ask a question… rephrase your question about the communal side of James? That's one question I would like to have on camera. It was just in this last part of the interview. [Rowe] If the college was… if the experimentalism was essentially about the enhancement or development of individualism, what then was the communal… the accompanying communal vision, if any? Anarchism, some sense of the individual fully developed in such a way that he or she is able to be in community in the way that their ancestors weren't? [Lubbers] Is egalitarianism more than…[Inaudible]? [Rowe] What does that mean? [Lubbers] People living equally and sharing equally, deciding the fate of their lives as equally as possible? [Rowe] Yeah, but see, that's a term in the modern period like "freedom" that everybody uses and that means different things. I would say basically in the modern orientation, there's equality of sameness and equality of difference. In our best moments, the communal vision that accompanied this particular sense of individual development, at the best, argued for an equality of difference; at the �worst moments, it became an equality of sameness. That makes sense, right? [Lubbers] Yeah, the right. Yeah, which then comes back on itself as individualism, doesn't it? It's, in a sense, the equality of difference is really… it's a kind of individual who "I have a right to be different and work out my destiny than say we have a right to be different and work out our own destiny." But then it's every little we… it's kind of like Protestantism that it breaks up finally because everyone has a right to be what she or he wants it to be. [Barbara] I'm sorry, I know you want to follow this through, but I just have a certain amount of tape. I need to ask one more question… ask some sort of intro question to the notion of the cluster college. You asked very early in the first… [Rowe] An intro to what he said? [Barbara] Yeah. [Rowe] I'm trying to remember. [Barbara] Well, the answer is that [inaudible] had to do with the difficulties of that structure. [Rowe] Okay. Developing out of your and the founders of the college's notion of small educational communities, Grand Valley became, in effect, a cluster college. What were the difficulties that were related to that kind of model in itself? And how is that different from the Oxford model of small communities? I think the answer to that is at Oxford, the pedagogical differences developed sort of willy-nilly over a long period of time. Whereas, here in America, in some ways we tried to make them. Arend [Lubbers] wouldn't talk about the problem we're making at that point. [Lubbers] That’s true, well we took a single institution and broke it up into pieces and it wasn't ready to be broken up into pieces. Whereas universities, many universities, people came, they did their little thing, and the other people did their little thing side by side. And then finally, it develops… a kind of unity evolves. [Rowe] A more organic rather than made. [Barbara] It's now eleven o'clock, okay? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_47_Lubbers-Rowe Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lubbers, Arend Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Arend Lubbers interview (3 of 3, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Arend Lubbers by Barbara Roos and Stephen Rowe, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Arend "Don" Lubbers was president of Grand Valley State University from 1969-2001 and served as president during the lifespan of William James College. In this interview, President Lubbers and professor Stephen Rowe have a conversation about William James College and its place within Grand Valley history, its legacy and heritage within the larger college community, and the positive elements of experimental education. This interview is part 3 of 3 for Arend Lubbers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Rowe, Stephen (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education College presidents College administrators Lubbers, Arend D. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5cf0647021f10a8b04725cdc44aff52f.jpg 35e25c6c8d3987fb8f4f6e76852858de Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Believing and Belonging on Campus Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Interfaith Photovoice Description An account of the resource During the 2024 Winter semester at GVSU, the Kaufman Interfaith Institute and Interfaith Photovoice hosted nine students from different religious, spiritual, and secular backgrounds for a semester-long cohort centered on storytelling. By using predominantly mobile-phone photography, these students explored what it meant to believe and belong on campus and in the greater West Michigan community. This project was designed to help capture their experiences and stories, to enable them to find their voice through photography. The cohort culminated in an exhibition displayed on multiple GVSU campuses and curated by the students around three self-selected themes: Religious & Spiritual Practices, Barriers to Belonging, and Creating Welcoming Spaces. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource College students Belonging Hinduism Islam Judaism Students, Foreign LGBTQ+ people Orthodox Eastern Church Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2024-Kaufman-Exhibit-27 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Title A name given to the resource Creating Welcoming Spaces 9 Description An account of the resource This is my Chimarrão mug next to my backyard fireplace. Chimarrão is a indigenous tea from my home region of south Brasil. It's immensely popular and is often shared and passed around at parties and other gatherings. For me, it represents what I most value from the communities I grew up in and the ones I've found and created since then, which is the opportunity to sit around, drink, and talk with a group of friends who I love and love me in return. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute (exhibitor) Subject The topic of the resource Students, Foreign College students Belonging Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Kaufman Interfaith Institute Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2aed7defae5eb63d46fbe0759bcea4d1.jpg f037e8fc3336ee08d1494bbce3274ad9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Believing and Belonging on Campus Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Interfaith Photovoice Description An account of the resource During the 2024 Winter semester at GVSU, the Kaufman Interfaith Institute and Interfaith Photovoice hosted nine students from different religious, spiritual, and secular backgrounds for a semester-long cohort centered on storytelling. By using predominantly mobile-phone photography, these students explored what it meant to believe and belong on campus and in the greater West Michigan community. This project was designed to help capture their experiences and stories, to enable them to find their voice through photography. The cohort culminated in an exhibition displayed on multiple GVSU campuses and curated by the students around three self-selected themes: Religious & Spiritual Practices, Barriers to Belonging, and Creating Welcoming Spaces. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource College students Belonging Hinduism Islam Judaism Students, Foreign LGBTQ+ people Orthodox Eastern Church Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2024-Kaufman-Exhibit-26 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Title A name given to the resource Creating Welcoming Spaces 8 Description An account of the resource That small red smudge is a cardinal that had been resting on the vine covered awning outside the Arboretum. I believe that if you create the space for beauty and love, then beauty and love will flourish. Even if some beautiful things are fleeting, and prone to fly away. The communities we make and participate in while we are at college are often impermanent. Still, their beauty and importance cannot be understated, and more will surely follow in their wake. So long as students are given the space, resources, and freedom to create them. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute (exhibitor) Subject The topic of the resource Students, Foreign College students Belonging Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Kaufman Interfaith Institute Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/11abfa05c8ff5b85322ef97607dbbb2c.jpg 4865a785714d9ba667a36637d1729513 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Believing and Belonging on Campus Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Interfaith Photovoice Description An account of the resource During the 2024 Winter semester at GVSU, the Kaufman Interfaith Institute and Interfaith Photovoice hosted nine students from different religious, spiritual, and secular backgrounds for a semester-long cohort centered on storytelling. By using predominantly mobile-phone photography, these students explored what it meant to believe and belong on campus and in the greater West Michigan community. This project was designed to help capture their experiences and stories, to enable them to find their voice through photography. The cohort culminated in an exhibition displayed on multiple GVSU campuses and curated by the students around three self-selected themes: Religious & Spiritual Practices, Barriers to Belonging, and Creating Welcoming Spaces. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource College students Belonging Hinduism Islam Judaism Students, Foreign LGBTQ+ people Orthodox Eastern Church Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2024-Kaufman-Exhibit-23 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Title A name given to the resource Creating Welcoming Spaces 5 Description An account of the resource The Arboretum represents the most valuable thing the GVSU campus provides me: a space to learn, grow, and build communities. The Arboretum is essentially a park, a place for plants to grow and animals and students to congregate. It's simple places like these, areas where I and my peers are free to exist and socialize outside of other influences that I've seen the most personal growth and community growth on campus. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute (exhibitor) Subject The topic of the resource Students, Foreign College students Belonging Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Kaufman Interfaith Institute Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/48731ce2333ba5dbc698cbac649fec2a.jpg 23bf99fc3550e46145d9577d9b2f4644 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Believing and Belonging on Campus Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Interfaith Photovoice Description An account of the resource During the 2024 Winter semester at GVSU, the Kaufman Interfaith Institute and Interfaith Photovoice hosted nine students from different religious, spiritual, and secular backgrounds for a semester-long cohort centered on storytelling. By using predominantly mobile-phone photography, these students explored what it meant to believe and belong on campus and in the greater West Michigan community. This project was designed to help capture their experiences and stories, to enable them to find their voice through photography. The cohort culminated in an exhibition displayed on multiple GVSU campuses and curated by the students around three self-selected themes: Religious & Spiritual Practices, Barriers to Belonging, and Creating Welcoming Spaces. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource College students Belonging Hinduism Islam Judaism Students, Foreign LGBTQ+ people Orthodox Eastern Church Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2024-Kaufman-Exhibit-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Title A name given to the resource Barriers to Belonging 9 Description An account of the resource This is the concrete walkway that connects the English buildings to the rest of campus. I make use of it almost every weekday as I shuffle between my English classes in Lake Huron Hall and my history classes in Mackinac. It's invaluable to me, but it also kind of sucks. In the winter it becomes dangerously slippery and, with as crowded as it gets, I imagine many struggle to even make use of it I know I did when I walked with a cane for months after breaking my leg. It's good and I'm glad it exists, but it could be made much better and more accessible, which about sums up my thoughts on GVSU and its campus in general. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute (exhibitor) Subject The topic of the resource Students, Foreign College students Belonging Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Kaufman Interfaith Institute Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2caa659113221919e138b06a0756ff4.jpg 9c5b0651769f4255c188277f28cb27fe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Believing and Belonging on Campus Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Interfaith Photovoice Description An account of the resource During the 2024 Winter semester at GVSU, the Kaufman Interfaith Institute and Interfaith Photovoice hosted nine students from different religious, spiritual, and secular backgrounds for a semester-long cohort centered on storytelling. By using predominantly mobile-phone photography, these students explored what it meant to believe and belong on campus and in the greater West Michigan community. This project was designed to help capture their experiences and stories, to enable them to find their voice through photography. The cohort culminated in an exhibition displayed on multiple GVSU campuses and curated by the students around three self-selected themes: Religious & Spiritual Practices, Barriers to Belonging, and Creating Welcoming Spaces. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource College students Belonging Hinduism Islam Judaism Students, Foreign LGBTQ+ people Orthodox Eastern Church Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2024-Kaufman-Exhibit-14 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024 Title A name given to the resource Barriers to Belonging 5 Description An account of the resource Many of you will recognize GVSU's Laker store and the kiosk to pay for campus parking. For me, this photo represents why I've struggled to really feel like I belong to any sort of broader GVSU community and why campus has always felt slightly hostile to me. GVSU claims to want to be a welcoming, accepting community, but how welcoming and accepting can a community really be when it charges membership fees? I've had to struggle and teeter on the edge of financial ruin in order to attend GVSU, and I consider myself lucky. I love my peers, professors, and classes, but as long as it has its hands in my already empty pockets, it'll always be tough for me to see GVSU as a community I belong to and not just a country club I can't really afford. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute (exhibitor) Subject The topic of the resource Students, Foreign College students Belonging Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Kaufman Interfaith Institute Relation A related resource Believing and Belonging on Campus: An Interfaith Photovoice Project (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3cd55d3b952148210e50bbe93e70195e.mp4 3f2b6e4b3cf551b71f3f8f0c4cac8df8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/09a0eeb80087610eee098b278c8becd8.pdf 48a6eed4c6a8d54234ba0a644de38699 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Art Lucas (01:01:00) (00:17) Background Information • • • • • • • • He was born in Michigan in 1922 Art was eight years old when the Depression hit Everyone in the community went to the same church He had never even heard of Catholicism until he went to high school His home town was focused around farming Art farmed his whole life except while in service He just sold his farm a few years ago He had previously been a supervisor in the township; he held the position for 25 years (2:35) The Depression • The Depression effected his life in all aspects and still does today • No one had very much money at the time and the banks were only giving back ten percent of what people had actually saved • He graduated from high school and worked in a factory for a while • In 1941 Art attended Michigan State University for one term • The government ordered him to get a physical, yet he was deferred from joining the service for a while because he had acquired farming skills (5:50) The Draft • The government told him that they would like to have him stay in the US because of his farming skills • They told him “you will do a lot more good out here on the farm than you will ever do in the Navy.” (6:45) The Navy • Art was eventually sworn into the service and said that “boot camp was a serious business.” • They trained a lot to become more disciplined • In the service you must always do what you are told to without thinking about it (7:35) Great Lakes Naval Base, Chicago • Much of their training did not even involve boats or ships • He trained in Chicago for eight weeks • He and twenty other men were shipped to New York for school • They went to Virginia for two months to form a crew • In Virginia, they lived in small tents outside during the winter �• They then went on a ship to Baltimore and then took a train to Pittsburgh (10:15) 328 Foot Long LSTs • The ships were made in a plant on the Ohio River • The Landing Ship Tanks were 50 feet wide • Art was stationed near this plant for ten days while their ship was finished • He and his crew then left down the Mississippi River (11:40) Art is Assigned to be a Signal Man • Signalmen talk to other ships through signals; they use flashing lights, Morse code, and flags • His job was held on the tower of the boat on the way to New Orleans • They were able to open ship doors while out at sea, which would let in about four feet of water • They stopped at Mobile, Alabama to load the ship at a tank deck • They loaded the ship with five hundred pound bombs that were three feet high each • They then filled open compartments with aviation gas • They ship was really just like a giant bomb • In Okinawa a ship got hit by a kamikaze and the whole ship exploded (16:20) Art Visited the Panama Canal Briefly (16:50) Hawaii • They spent only one week in Hawaii in 1945 • They were then sent to Okinawa (17:40) Okinawa: September 1945 • This is a big long island near the China Sea with many kamikazes in the area • Art said that the guys in Iraq are also trying these kamikaze techniques; “it’s old stuff, they are not using anything new.” • They used a smoke machine that made smoke twenty feet deep on the USS Pennsylvania to confuse the kamikazes • They eventually had to leave the harbor two ships at a time because of a typhoon • This happened twice while they were out at sea during a typhoon (21:25) The Typhoon • The ship would actually bend in such a strong storm • Typhoons are like American hurricanes • They would be out for three days before they were in the eye of the storm • It is not possible to cook on a ship during a typhoon so everyone just gets really tired and sleeps the whole time • Typhoons produce fifty foot waves • They had been in Okinawa unloading bomb when the storm hit (25:10) Going on Shore in Okinawa �• • • • • • His brother was at Okinawa also and had arrived there one day before Art There were also Italians in Okinawa; it was a tough fight for the marines They also went to Manila to load up food and bear there You can’t drink water in that area or anything that is even cooked with water They then headed towards Japan to unload box cars There are no sandy beaches in Japan; it’s just rocks with caves every so often (28:40) Nagasaki • The bomb was dropped here in August, while Art had arrived in October • Art went on shore and took pictures, but it made some people angry • They were allowed to go back to the US on January 5th • They went straight home, traveling 6,000 miles to San Diego • It took them 27 days and they did not even see another ship light or anything that resembled land • The ship had a bunch of holes in it the whole way back, but they were unable to fix them at the time (31:20) Washington • They were sent to a big ship yard to get their ship fixed • They then went to Oregon where many men were being decommissioned (33:15) Art was Discharged May 1946 • He went back home to Michigan • He was part of the 52-20 club, which gives you $20/week for 52 weeks • Art decided to not take the checks after one weeks pay because he had two good hands and could work just fine • Art said that the Navy was a great experience if you came back uninjured (34:40) Post-War Military • Some men stayed in the service and received a bonus • Art was too independent to stay in the service and moved back to Lucas, Michigan (35:35) Chicago • Art knew a girl in Chicago and while on his way home in a train, he stopped by her house • Art worked in Chicago for about six months and then they got married • They moved to Wisconsin because he had heard that there were lots of farms there • Later they moved to Michigan because the cost of milk was much higher there (37:40) The Michigan Farm • They first purchased 80 acres and soon after purchased another 120 acres (38:50) Showing of Pictures Taken in Nagasaki • They were very close to the destruction �• • • • All the newspapers had said that nothing will grow there again for at least another one thousand years, yet Art found potatoes growing there just two months after the bomb had been dropped There was a barbed wire fence that had been completely melted together There were huge trees up the sides of mountains that had been blown over Art had seen pictures of the same area 25 years later and the city had completely been rebuilt (44:10) The Japanese • Art stated that the Japanese “were really interested in us.” • Hirohito was like a god to them; he was able to get young men to gives their lives up for him so that they would be guaranteed into heaven; “it's really not that different from Islam.” • Those men had been brain-washed to die for their religion and Hirohito (49:00) The Quartermaster • Both quartermasters had been taken off his ship and Art then became the quartermaster • The new job came with a lot of responsibility • He used a sexton to take sights of the stars (51:45) Showing of Pictures of Planes, Factories in Japan, Wrecked Cities in Japan, and the USS Pennsylvania (53:35) Reunions • There have been reunions with the men from the service every year for the past forty years • It’s getting harder for Art to attend these every year • The next reunion is in San Antonio and the last was in St. Louis (58:00) Showing of Pictures of Japan and the Philippines   �• "TWO YEArsrsFOHE THE MAST. It ~ ~ Greetings from the Fresident were received via the draft board on May 9, 1944. lvlay- lOth, I took my official leave from ~.assaukee County for Detroit where I was sworn into the U.S. Navy, a maneuver that took fifteen·se-conds on the ships clock. Proceeded from Detroit to Great Lakes Naval Training Station via the "Milk" -train. After five weeks of -Boot Trainingll arrived home on a nine day- -Boot lf leave. Leave was over all too soon and back to Great Lakes. 'From there to sampeea, New York for four months Signalman training. : tJovember 6, 1944, we graduated and were granted a five day leave. Home-,again! Re-ported in to Camp Bradford, Norfolk, Virginia. Aft·er four mQnthsof traiaing for L.S. T. erew;s, we aga.in graduated. Anotller leaveo! eleven days. People at home were beginning to wonder whether I was in the Navy or just p;omeon leaVte a.ll the time. ­ '; MY L Back to Camp Bradford. ·On March 13th we bid farewell to-Norfolk and proceede.d by ferry to Baltimore, Maryland where we boarded ene of the Pennsyl vania Railroad t s 1890 model trains for the trip t.o Pit'tsbttt'gb.~ Arrived in the Smokey C1 ty nene too olean. Enjoyed Ptttsbul7:gh hosp-1tal1ty for two weeks. . Boarded a new L. S. T. Ma.reh 27, 1945 and sailed for N~wOrleans by way of th,e Ohio and Miss:is.sippi Rivers. After a week"~otfitt1n-g out in New Oi"leans r . left- for st. Andrews Bay, Florida" _T'f{O - we,eks train1ng cruis-e and back to New O;r1eaRs. Went over to see Adr:iiam Lucas at Keesler Field, Milssissippi at this ~ir.ne. Another wee~ at New OrLeane and then to Mobilje. Alabama '-f~r a ~~. to take oV'erse~s. . Spe!)t another half day with Adrian. Ma.y 12, 1945, --said goodbye to Q. S-.shoree.,~fnd proceeded to Pan$la Canal. Arrived.in one w~ekffu11y 1ndoc.trinate-d into life aboard .sh Ip, -~ent through one of man fa g~tefltenginee-r1b.g feats and we were on the blue Pacific. Aftarthrae we'6ks wearri ved in Hawaii. Spent a week enjoying their sunshine -and-.lied ·fo-I" Eneowe'tek-e« Arrived: in about it-en days and after one night proe:eededto Ul1th1 atoll. In ten daN'S we ar.ri ved in..o.ne of the .fin~stsalt watet;' swimming p,~ls in the pacific. Three weeks in. Uli thi and we sail$<!--.tor5aipan. Over­ night and lotte morning,oi\fr-- again, this time fllr -Okinawa.. We arrived at Okinawa JUly 28, 1945. Ab-eut t'pree d$Ys later, ~et,.}Sy brother Jactlb for about the first time in a.bout:thr..eey~ars_. We also saw Bob Bosscher 'here too. In fact 1 I saw SO ~anyofmy relatives in Okinawa,W"8 deci~ed to hold the. reunionthere'f.-hat y'ea.r. owt. the f$'l1~s at llomes'ijt«Mttt to ;come, 5(1) ,we df <in" t. Af'ter'thl,rty days· th~:re_ dm-ins which ti~ Japan :had. sur:r-ende:red, we went to Leyt.e~ Ras.a thr&ugh a typhoon on- the VlaJ,y down but:ar~ived~afe 1y ~ LeY'tEh • We. WlJ.·oaded t:here and went to Snbio B.ay where we load-e:d tr09p5 bo.uP-d f~,,# Japan. After a. few da-ys we prO'eeeded toLingayenGulf-~ After a sho,r'ts'taYt we went to Sasebo, Japan. The Ja.:p_ane$-egreeted us with clo:$ed. aTmS and cold stares. We so-en 'won t~eir _confi@nee,\:however, wi th _,,~~urep1!)eolate bars and cigarettes. \'i'hile in the Japanef?ea.rea, we made two trips down to Nagasaki where they dropped one atomic bomb. A very awe.... lnspiring scene greeted us when we viewed it for the first time. I have some pictures of it at home. �Page 2--My -Two Years Before The Mast.­ January 3, 1946 we sailed for the U. S. A. once again and atter 27 days landed at San Diego. While there I had oeoas~on to see Beatrice BossCh:e1;' and her husband and Bob Bosseher·. ~e+tn,. This Luca.srelatlon crops up all over, doesntt it? We SOCQ. lut fo:r; Bremerton, Wash1M~on .a.nd fram. there we went to Astor£a.., Oregon. After a couple ~.~ w8.eks wentllp the r1v~r to Pt>rt1.and,; Oregon where I was finally S8I)·t home en leave .again. Aftar thiny4four days o~ Lucas bospitalj;tY;., I report:e4 '1n"to Great Lakes f~r'41scharge "hieh I r~i ved !(a.y a~ . . 1946. . ".: .. Now I am about·t.6 be marri~ t.o Miss' NellieKorte.ev~n of ChicaSO•.. Il11nois. An:otb~~. Nellle' :i;n the family. . � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LucasA Title A name given to the resource Lucas, Arthur (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas, Arthur Description An account of the resource Art Lucas was born in a small farm town in Michigan in 1922. There he acquired farming skills that would help him to avoid being drafted into the war at the very beginning. Lucas became eligible for the draft and decided to enlist in the Navy serving on an LST as a signalman and then as a quartermaster between 1944 and 1946. He has photographs taken in Japan after Nagasaki had been bombed. After serving, he continued farming and in Michigan was voted supervisor of his township for 25 consecutive years. Personal narrative, "My Two Years Before the Mast" is appended to the interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-09-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/391c31c368af72cf29d6de944b760909.mp4 fd3760f61e9bfc191af3b5316b6d13e9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/78f8a962d87e209a02e05822a806261d.pdf bb256926b85f69c5c008d3a0b5e6804f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee name: Jacob Lucas Length of Interview: 40 minutes Pre-Enlistment (02:45) • Childhood (02:53)   o • Lucas was born on March 23, 1924. (02:55)   Background (03:05)   o Served with the Seabees, which was a construction branch of the Navy, while deployed  in the Pacific during WWII. (03:10)  Enlistment/Basic Training (03:22)   • Background (03:23)  o Was living in Michigan working for Chris Craft for a year. (03:26) Briefly mentions what  career experience he had before joining the Seabees in construction. (03:30)   o  Briefly describes what type of basic training he had and what that entailed. (03:55) Had  4 weeks of basic training and an additional 2 weeks of extended training entailing firing  carbines on a gun range. (04:33)   o The Seabee group he was with was responsible with much of the construction and  building and not much of the fighting. (05:50)   o Joined the Seabees sometime in December 1942 from which time he entered basic  training. (06:12)  ƒ Briefly describes the types of food and what sleeping conditions were like while  in basic training. (06:36)     ƒ Of the training he learned he enjoyed building the most and blasting coral.  Briefly a few of the different experiences he had with blasting coral. (07:30)   o Mentions the different types of heavy equipment he had at his disposal with his own  van. (08:31)   o Being with the same group for 2 ½ years he grew to know them well. Briefly describes  what sort of heavy equipment his superiors were in charge of maintaining. (08:51)   �Active Duty (10:34)  • Background (10:40)   o Attaining the rank of a 3rd‐class gunnery sergeant he briefly describes his responsibilities  in the managing of heavy equipment. (10:54) Briefly describes what this entailed while  also mentioning that his last job was making an airstrip on Okinawa. (11:05)   • New Caledonia (12:17)   o Shipped out from California, 60 miles northwest of Los Angles. Took 30 days to get  there. Stayed there from June/July to November. (12:37) Stayed there from mid‐ June/July to early November. (12:49)   • New Guinea (12:50)   o From there he went first to Milne Bay and then to Finschafen by taking an LST there by  night. (12:52)   • Main Responsibilities (13:01)  o Shows pictures of what sort of work he did looked like. (13:13)   o He also built smaller navy air strips up to a 1/3 of a mile long on various islands. (13:42)  To do this he describes what the blasting of underneath the water to make way for the  leveling of the land with heavy machinery looked like. (14:07)  • Living Conditions abroad (15:27)   o For living arrangements they lived in quonset huts and what his mornings were like. Also  shows various pictures of what he did. (15:30)  • Combat experience in the Admiralty Islands (17:10)   o The closest Lucas came to being in combat was in the Admiralty Islands while helping to  build air strips. When first landing on islands they would either go in with the U.S. Army  or the Marines to do construction work. (17:50)   ƒ The average age for a Seabee was 35 even though Lucas was 18 when he went  overseas. (18:25)   ƒ Describes his thoughts about the Navy and working with an Australian artillery  company. (19:37)   • Other Responsibilities and living conditions (20:14)   �o Lucas mentions that they were also responsible for making steel pontoons and for  measuring them. (20:25)   o Much later Seabees were in smaller groups and carried fold‐up bridges. (21:19)   o While overseas, at night Lucas would sleep around mosquito netting and take atabrine  to keep up his immunity against yellow fever and malaria. (22:05)   • Other stories (22:49)   o Mentions that he kept up a 15 month correspondence with his future wife while staying  in constant contact with his family. (22:55)   o Lucas joined the Seabees specifically because ever since he had been a kid he had  always wanted to be a builder. (23:57)   o Going Home (25:05)  ƒ Leaving the Pacific and going home he landed in San Francisco where he  remembers seeing “Welcome Home Troop” signs from 40‐miles out. (25:21)  ƒ Was given a train ticket upon being discharged but because the trains were so  packed he had to wait six days to go home. Meanwhile, he took the  opportunity to visit his aunt and uncle who lived in Alameda, California for four  days. (26:10)   After the Service (26:35)   • Adjusting to Home (26:42)   o For Lucas the switch from military service to working around the clock for his  supervisors was not too difficult. His handling of heavy equipment and blasting  responsibilities helped him to learn to work quickly. (27:06)   o Lucas mentions that all the letters sent from his congregation at Lucas CRC his mother  kept. Basically these were all letters from servicemen who went to his church. (29:04)  o Spends a good amount of the time with the interviewer showing him pictures of ‘muddy  places,’ a notebook of the people who put the pictures together, and a map of all the  places he was deployed at. For example, such places included the Admiralty Islands,  Lea in New Guinea, New Caledonia, and Okinawa. (30:01)   • Interview Ends (39:14)   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LucasJ Title A name given to the resource Lucas, Jacob (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lucas, Jacob Description An account of the resource Jacob Lucas is a World War II veteran who served in the Seabees, a construction branch of the Navy, from December 1942 to 1945. In this account, Lucas discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and basic training in the U.S. and his service time abroad in the Pacific. He goes into some depth about his responsibilities as a Seabee in Okinawa, New Caledonia, New Guinea and the Admiralty Islands. Lucas concludes his interview by showing pictures and newspaper clippings from that time. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mangione, Nathaniel (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-04-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fa921b9e57dc68e9605a1f3bc8e11196.pdf e801f1023562e3d18d28ae971964a140 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Felipe Luciano Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 3/15/2013 Runtime: 01:13:52 Biography and Description Oral history of Felipe Luciano, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on March 15, 2013 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript FELIPE LUCIANO: Okay. My name is Felipe Luciano. I was born in the old Metropolitan Hospital on Welfare Island. It’s now called Roosevelt Island. I was born on November 24th, 1947, two years after the big war. I was born in East Harlem. That’s where we came to, my mother and father, after I was born. And we were a barrio family. JOSE JIMENEZ: FL: Where did you come from? My family comes from Puerto Rico. My mother was born here, so she’s part of that generation we call the pioneros. They were the first Puerto Ricans here, born here. JJ: What’s her name? FL: Her name is Aurora Luciano, my mother’s name. She’s passed two years ago. JJ: Your mom? FL: It still hurts to even think about it. My father was born in Puerta de Tierra, Puerto Rico, which is in San Juan. His father’s from Camuy, Puerto Rico. My maternal grandmother comes from [00:01:00] Cataño, Puerto Rico, which is primarily a Black area. And I’ll start with my grandmother. My grandmother, fleeing Puerto Rico’s poverty and the lack of real jobs for single women, left three of her kids. She had three kids from two gentlemen in Puerto Rico. One was Haitian. She had two with the Haitian, and in those days, by the way, Caribbean people traveled from island to island, and I owe a great deal of gratitude, we all do, to the Haitians because it was the Haitians who made revolution a reality. After 1 �they had their revolution with Toussaint Louverture and Dessalines, they traveled to the other islands, like Puerto Rico, advocating that slaves overthrow their Spanish slave masters. And there were laws [00:02:00] that stated emphatically that they should be killed onsite. But it was Haitians who literally fomented revolution and rebellion in Puerto Rico against the slave masters. My grandmother, having already separated from two of the gentlemen that she had three kids with, decided that her best bet was to come to New York, so she gets on a steamer. In those days, they had re-converted cargo freighters. One of them was called a Marine Tiger. In fact, it was that name, the Marine Tiger, that became a pejorative among Puerto Ricans here in New York because if we called you a marine tiger, it means you came on a ship. And many of them were cane cutters. Some of them were urban people, but most of us come from agricultural families, country folk. Interestingly enough, my father’s mother -- so I’ve dealt with my mother’s mother, Margo, Black, [00:03:00] African, always proud of her African past, had horrible memories of the Spaniards. Her mother, Rosa, went to Spain with a family, and she served as their nanny, and the experiences that she related to my grandmother, who then related it to my mother, who then related it to me, were traumatizing. They were horrible, the way they treated her, the disrespect, the humiliation she had to go through. When she came back, she said, “You can’t trust any of these Spaniards, any of them.” JJ: What do you mean? How did they treat her? 2 �FL: They beat her. They mistreated her. They spoke to her in ways that were inhumane and that were less than civil. By the time she got back to Puerto Rico, she never did it again. She said she would never work for them again. My grandmother tells me that during the time of the invasion, before the invasion, the Spanish troops would come through towns and just rape women whenever they wanted to. [00:04:00] And she said, “You can’t trust a Catalano,” because many of the soldiers from Spain were from Catalan, at least where she was. And she never, ever saw -- JJ: And she was in Cataño? FL: She was in Cataño. And of course, she traveled around also, but she told me that she could never trust a Spaniard again, so my family was versed and immersed in Blackness and Négritude, sometimes negatively. Sometimes they were Black through negativity. That is, “We’re Black, and therefore we’re not this, and we’re not that.” My grandmother with me though, that is, my mother’s mother, having seen what negativity could do the mind of a young man, she always promoted Blackness in me. (Spanish) [00:04:52 - 00:04:58] around her head. She used a bandana [00:05:00] around her head. She used to cook with wood. She would actually put her hand in the fire and take the wood out. She was an incredible woman, and she used to -- the earliest memories I have, the first 10 years of my life, is of her tracing the lines of my nose, the lines of my eyebrows, my lips, and saying, “What a beautiful child you are.” I mean, she would marvel. She would coo at me, so I remember that throughout 10 years, I would lie on her lap, and she would coo. And she used to call me (Spanish) 3 �[00:05:25]. And she used to sing, (sings in Spanish) [00:05:29 - 00:05:38]. And then she would say, “Ay, que frio. Ay, que frio.” And it was a contradiction because she was saying it was hot, but he would say that it was cold so that he could eat it. So, I’d go put all of these Africanisms, (sings in Spanish) [00:05:53 00:06:00]. You would say that to the babies. So, I grew up with this tremendous, tremendous pride in being Black, but I never grew up feeling that Black was ugly or that it was inferior. I grew up, long before James Brown said it, that Black was the most beautiful thing there was. And so, my grandmother would take my nappy hair, and she would put little mounds. She would make little [monitos?], we call it. And I grew up with a tremendous sense of beauty. As I grew older, I realized that many of my African American friends and even some Puerto Ricans had not been brought up in that meilleur. And so, I had many fist fights because they would say, “You know, well, we’re ugly. We’re ashy. We’re this. We’re that.” And I said, “No, man, I’m pretty.” And they would ask me, “Well, who told you pretty?” I said, “My grandmother did. She says I’m a pretty negro.” And they would say, “Well, your grandmother’s lying,” and [00:07:00] to tell me my grandmother was lying was an instant ass-whooping, so I definitely got into some fights over that when I was a kid. So, I never had a problem with my nose, my lips, my hair, my ashiness, never had a problem with that. El Barrio at that time -oh. JJ: You’re talking about -- FL: It was a Black Puerto Rican community. Now I’m going back to my father’s family. Now, my father’s family was an interesting mix. My father’s family were 4 �all revolutionaries. My grandmother, Rosa, another Rosa, was one of the first followers of Albizu Campos. She escaped the masacre de Ponce in 1937. She was one of the few who got away. From what my father tells me, she -JJ: What was her name? FL: Her name was Rosa. JJ: Rosa. FL: Rosa Luciano. Rosa, Rosa, what was her last name? Alvarez is my family name on that side. [00:08:00] And when my father described it to me, he didn’t see any -- she died when he was 13. She had to sell her body from time to time to make money because that’s the way it was in Puerto Rico in her barrio of her class. She couldn’t make money, so she did that. My father was confronted with that several years later by some friends, some people who knew his mother, and he said he almost knocked the guy out, but in fact, it was true. My family’s always been street on that side of it. Her brother, Carmelo, ended up in the same nationalist party with Albizu and spent 10 years in Atlanta Penitentiary as a body guard for Albizu Campos. He stayed with him. His name is Carmelo Alvarez. I looked it up, and he’s there. My father from Vega Baja came to San Juan, stayed with his father, and it was traumatic for him because his father was not used to taking care of a kid. He went through a rough time, never quite learned [00:09:00] what the meaning of family was. Told me that he -- and I realized this as I got older, that he never really experienced what having a family was, certainly having a woman around, and that hurt him later on. So, now you have my paternal grandfather from Camuy, my maternal grandfather from Arecibo, and 5 �then they all come here. My grandmother comes on a boat and lands in Brooklyn, in Williamsburg, because in those days, the first Puerto Rican community was Williamsburg, Brooklyn. They were citizens already in 1917, so those who came, they came on these huge freighters, and they would drop some off in Ellis Island, and the rest would come to Williamsburg because that’s the way you did it. They were already citizens by 1917, the Jones Act. My grandmother came with a little piece of paper, and she looked for her friend or [00:10:00]a friend or a contact, found one, ended up on Front Street in Brooklyn. The building still stands to this day on Front Street. Before my mother died, we took her there, and she -JJ: Is this Williamsburg? No? FL: Williamsburg, yeah. And she, my mother, was so happy to see that building. She said, “That’s where I grew up. That’s where I was raised.” Her father, my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, was named Phillip, and he worked for the mob. And what he did is he did bathtub gin, and they say, this is just a legend, he was the best at it. I think historically, if we look at it culturally, Sicilians were the closest to Puerto Ricans because the language is very much the same. They look like us. They were dark, have curly hair, the works. And since they were in charge of the streets, the only way you could make money if you didn’t speak English and you didn’t have a job was to do the street thing, and so it would be like selling drugs [00:11:00] today, because it was illegal. Tell you a little story. He’s a very standup guy, from what I hear. His character was intact, very rigid, but he had integrity. I was doing a story one time as a reporter, and I had to do a 6 �story on a so-called mob infiltration of the South Street Seaport, which is where they handle the fish and distribute the fish in the city. I couldn’t get headways. The former Mayor Giuliani was asking them to move to the Bronx. They wanted them to relocate, and he was going to investigate them. There were loads of records in a huge warehouse. Those records suddenly spontaneously caught fire, and of course nobody could be indicted because all the records were gone. I’m trying to do a story on this fire, and I couldn’t get headway. And I’m up at six in the morning because I had to do three live shots for Good Day New York. And the six-o’clock [00:12:00] didn’t go so well. The seven-o’clock didn’t go so well. I had one more, the eight-o’clock. Our show ended at nine. And I get a nudge in the back from a young Italian kid with a grappling hook the longshoremen use, and he goes like this. And I figure, uh-oh, we’re in for some trouble.” And he says, “Is your name Felipo?” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “My grandfather’s watching you on live TV. He can’t believe that you’re the grandson of Phillip Luciano. You’re the grandson, right?” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “He told me to tell you your grandfather was a standup guy.” And he turns around to the guys, and he says, “Whatever he needs, you give him whatever, within reason.” (laughs) So, I got a great story about working-class Italian men and their trials and tribulations. It was a great story. But that’s how my grandfather was viewed by the boys of The Family, as we say in East Harlem. [00:13:00] Well, needless to say, we stayed with Italians mostly. We still have very good relationships with Italian Americans, with Sicilians in particular. And as they moved, we moved. So, Williamsburg got a little tough. We couldn’t afford the rent, according to my mother, so they 7 �moved. My father and my grandfather died, and they were poor. They were broke, so they went where the rents were cheap, and in East Harlem at that time, you could live for three months free because landlords were offering it because they wanted people -- the buildings -- it hadn’t been populated yet by Puerto Ricans. The Italians were slowly leaving. So, since Sicilians were going there and the Irish and the Jewish Americans and some of the Scandinavians, believe it or not, East Harlem used to be a very heavy Scandinavian neighborhood, left, Irish too. My grandmother decided to go to one of these apartments in there. She went, and we followed the Italians there. The earliest memories I have of East Harlem [00:14:00] are both wonderful and horrific, wonderful in that my grandmother, I had my mother, my grandmother. I remember my father, my aunts, and uncles who were just incredible. Each one of them had a personality. Each one of them was a character. So, it was wonderful, in that I felt totally, totally loved. I would get up in the morning, and I would smell the coffee grinds. I would smell the way made coffee in El Barrio. I would hear the music. We played trio music in those days. The Mexican trios were, and still are, considered sacred music to Puerto Ricans, Trio Los Panchos, Trio Los Astros, Ases, [con?] Marco Antonio Muñiz Muñiz, Vegabajeño, Trio Borinquen, all of those old things. And even then, I loved it. Later on, I didn’t want to get close to it because I thought it was hinky music. Now I have all, the entire collection of Trio Los Panchos. And I remember the familiarity, the family [00:15:00] atmosphere was just so much fun being in East Harlem. You always had a loving shoulder, a loving embrace. The men watched out for their kids. Families were together. 8 �There was a work ethic that was beyond description. I remember getting up every morning. When I got up early to go to school, men were going to work. They were going to the factories. Women were going to the factories, in the ’30s, between Sixth and Eighth Avenue, the textile factories. So, I never saw laziness. I never saw what they call poverty or victim behavior. Men stood up for their families. There were house parties. The music was fabulous. I grew up in the ’50s, so I remember Machito and his Afro-Cubans, who lived on 111th Street, and in fact, spans three generations. Before he died, he used to say, “I knew your grandmother; I knew your father, and now I know you.” And he knew my kids. It’s four generations of people that he knew. I grew up with Tito [00:16:00] Puente. I grew up with Tito Rodriguez. JJ: They were in your neighborhood? FL: No, no, Tito was from 110th Street, but he had already left, but Machito was still there. Tito Rodriguez was in Puerto Rico at the time. I loved it. So, A, I grew up with a tremendous sense of Négritude in being an Afro-Boricua. B, I grew up with a really refined ear because while my mother loved Latin music, my father loved jazz, so Billy Eckstine, Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, Gerald Wilson, Stan Kenton, Basie, Ellington were part of my -- Jimmy Smith, the big baritone horns, Gigi Gryce and Sonny Stitt, these guys were part of my background. Sonny Rollins and the others come later. Coltrane comes later. But that was it, Dizzy Gillespie, Chano Pozo. [00:17:00] In the ’50s, we also had, in the early ’60s, we had Johnny Pacheco with the pachanga. It was just -- Kako, Cortijo y su Combo. It was a tremendous time to be alive in El Barrio. And I don’t remember anything 9 �but love in that matrix. The one horrifying moment for me, traumatizing, is my father left. And I remember exactly when it happened. My mother had caught him with someone else. In those days, men strayed. It was part of the culture, almost institutionalized. You had your wife, and then you had your thing on the side. The difference was, is that my father pushed past the envelope. He had actually come into the community, and he was with her in the community, and people of course came and told my mother. And I remember my mother holding onto my arm and screaming at this woman -- she was a Jamaican woman -screaming at her, calling her -- I couldn’t believe it. My mother was Pentecostal and was holy, and the words that came out of my mother’s mouth. Well, after that, I knew it was over, and [00:18:00] I remember him coming in on an afternoon. It was an afternoon, a Saturday afternoon, and she had my had, and she said, “You’re not gonna come up these stairs. I don’t want you back in this house.” And I knew immediately it was over. I just knew. I knew we were in for a rough time. We were already going through rough times, but I didn’t really notice it because I had a mom and a dad. And I remember when, after they had made love, of course she never wanted this to happen, but I would run into the room because the air was full of love. And I don't know why people deny children the ability to be with them in intimate moments. I loved it. I don’t mean to be with them when they’re doing their thing, but I mean, it was just a lovely feeling. It was like star particles in the air, and I would jump in between my mother and my father, and I would just be in between them. And I couldn’t -- there was nothing -it was heaven, between my mom’s breasts and my father’s cross. He used to 10 �have a big cross. He was a boxer, so he’s pretty well defined, regular-looking guy. My father [00:19:00] always had this sense that I could do things. He never felt that I couldn’t, and I remember even at two, he would bring me a to Highbridge Pool, not too far from where we’re recording this, and he had taught me how to swim a little bit, and so I had to go from the middle of the pool, which is about 25 yards, to the end. And the first time, I choked. The second time, I choked. And then I told him, “Leave me alone, daddy. Leave me alone. Let me do it.” And I don't know how I got to the end, but I did, and he and I both congratulated each other, “Yeah, we did it!” And I didn’t need him to hold me under my stomach. My mother was more protective. I realized later on, my mother was never meant to be alone. She loved him dearly and continued to love him. She never went out with another man. I don’t understand this, but this is a breed of Puerto Rican women that was for one man only, and that was it. From what I hear and what she told me, [00:20:00] she really adored him, and he broke her heart. And she said that on that day, I was on the second-floor landing of the Johnson projects when she told him to leave. She said, “I was waiting for him to go up the stairs and push me out of the way and say, ‘This is my house. These are my kids. You are my woman.’” And she was sad that he didn’t. He was a strong guy. He wouldn’t take too much guff from anybody, but he wasn’t strong enough to do that. JJ: Can we get his name? FL: Jose Luciano. He’s now passed. It was traumatizing for me because I really needed my dad. It was a difficult time. And I knew when my mother was crying, 11 �tears were coming down her eyes, she, “I don’t want you to come up here.” And all he needed to do was, “Hey, it’s my house.” She said she wished that he could do that. She told me later that the reason she admired and respected me -- can you imagine a mother telling you this -- is because I would do stuff like that. I would say, [00:21:00] “I don’t care, mom. You could say what you wanna say. This is what I’m gonna do.” And I’d gently move her out of the way and do what I had to do. She said that’s what she admired most in me, my honesty, and I would never lie to her, whether I stabbed somebody. Whether I was high on drugs, whether I was in a gang fight, whether I had a woman in my room, two women in my room, whatever it was, I would tell her, “Mommy, this is what I’m doing, and this is what I’m happening.” So, my mother and I had a very tight relationship. She was 21 when she had me, so we grew up together basically. The beginning of the end was when he left, and I remember it because my mother lost a lot of confidence. We had to go on welfare. It was difficult. And I began to see what institutionalization can do and how an institution like welfare can destroy a spirit. We always had to struggle for clothes. We always had to struggle for food. I don't remember struggling before my father left. I was three when my father left, [00:22:00] but I remember before that, always eating. After that, eating was optional. Sometimes you had food, and sometimes you didn’t, and it was difficult for my mother. My mother was Pentecostal, so that helped her ease the pain. Evangelistic fervor helped her out, but it was a very repressive Pentecostalism. Women were not supposed to wear earrings, not supposed to wear pants. You couldn’t sit alongside men, very difficult situation for me. I don’t 12 �remember not being interested in sex. I don’t know this period that guys, little guys are supposed to have where they’re not interested. I was always interested in women, always. They were fascinating to me. And since I was always nurtured and loved by them, I became a bit spoiled. My grandmother thought I could do anything, and that, in the end, helped me tremendously, the love that she gave me. And my mother, even though I got whoopings, and I mean [00:23:00] I don't know how other cultures -- I know how other cultures handle punishment. Black folks, Southern in particular, will tell the child, “Go out and take a twig off the tree,” and hit you with the twig. Puerto Ricans are Spanish inquisitors. Theirs is torture. Theirs is you kneel down on a grate, on, you know, the grater you use for the cheese or on rice, and they beat you while you hold the Bible in your hands. It’s some sick stuff. My mother would make me smell the belt. She would say (Spanish) [00:23:32]. She would make me -- (Spanish) [00:23:35]. But before she would do that, she would say, “Take a bath,” because it hurts more on a wet body. I used to tell her, “Mommy, if there were child abuse laws, you’d be under the jail.” So, I got beaten a lot because I always rebelled. I was the oldest child. My mother had two more with my -- my brother and my sister, Margie and Paul, Paul and Margie. And I remember seeing the gangs, and that was where [00:24:00] -- I didn’t have a family. Remember, the family’s gone. I remember admiring these guys with club sweaters, with pompadours, mambo boots, tight pants, snap clothes, collars with thin, skinny ties, and how they protected us and how they seemed to be afraid of nobody. I remember admiring them even then. 13 �JJ: How old were you then? FL: Seven, eight. By the time I was nine or 10, I already knew what time it was. We played with the pump. We knew when to run when the cops came. It was already us and them. We already knew that we were poor. We already knew that cops were not our friends. JJ: This is in Harlem? FL: This is in East Harlem, in El Barrio. My mother made a conscious decision never to deny love, meaning that if -- in those days, Puerto Ricans [00:25:00] were very, very anti-Black. They moved away from anything that would suggest that they were Black or that they acted like Blacks, like American Blacks. My mother did just the opposite. My mother developed some very good friends in the Johnson project, Lorraine Mims, Marion, and she never allowed us to ever think that we were something other than we were. We were Puerto Ricans, and we were Black, not “but” we were Black, “and” we were Black. That was a wonderful thing. Now, the Puerto Rican community at that time would kinda look at her a little differently because she could easily move from talking with her Black friends from Charleston, South Carolina, and then going to speaking to some people from Ponce. She did it effortlessly. I do it to this day. I don’t even know when I’m moving from Spanish to English, from Black English to -- it is effortless for me. It’s the way I was raised. And by the way, I had many Black friends who were raised the same way. My babysitters [00:26:00] after my grandmother moved to California, my babysitters were all Southern Black women who taught me a lot about God, the God of the evangelical Black Southern tradition, and who 14 �gave me a sense of beauty and awe about God. Long story short, my grandmother decides one day -- I’m in the third grade now. My grandmother decides she wants to go to California. She’s tired of the affairs and all of the madness that her sons and daughters are putting her through. She goes to California with her youngest son Phillip. And she says she wants to take me with her. Now, there is a little-known law among Puerto Ricans that the grandmother has the right to take one child, even if you have a mother and father, but particularly if you have no man in your life, the grandmother has the right to take one. Now, in my grandmother’s case, I had an older cousin, but she liked me a lot because she was closer to my mother, [00:27:00] and she adopted me in a sense. So, she said, “And I’m taking Phillip with me,” and so me, my brother, my sister went, ended up in Wilmington, California, and I loved it. Even then, I had wanderlust. Even then, we traveled across the country for five days in a big, beautiful Cadillac, and I was in love. I saw Arizona. I saw deserts. I saw the wheat fields of Kansas. I mean, we went through the entire length of the United States. And we ended up in Wilmington, California, which I love. And for the first time, I was oil wells and palominos, Mexicans and Japanese, sun all the time. It was just a lovely time. I was in the fourth grade. We couldn’t make it, and we had to come back to New York. I was heartbroken. I tried to run away. I wanted to stay with my grandmother, and I definitely wanted to stay in California. Little did I know that my mother felt completely lost without me, she told me later. And I was the oldest boy, a little bright, [00:28:00] very, very precocious, so I had to go back with her. I was very annoyed that my mother wouldn’t let me go. I kept on 15 �saying, “Mommy, you don’t need me.” She said, “No, you don’t need me, but I need you.” And that was a strange set of circumstances. We come back to New York, and we ended up in the Foster projects with my aunt, which is Black and Puerto Rican area. And I started to learn how to fight. I never had to. Now, because I was in an area that was predominantly African American, it was a very different feel, though I was totally at home. We used to fight with our pinkies out like this, and it was guys like Cece and Big Ben and Junebug and Irving and all these cats who taught me to fight with my hands, chin in and my hands up. So, I learned how to fight, and boy -JJ: So, there was no conflict? So, it was just like playing fight? FL: No, yeah, it was playing, and we’d call ‘em champ battles, [00:29:00] but they were preludes to real fights. And the first real fight I had was in the sixth grade, I think. I had some minor scuffles, but the first one was John, over a girl, and he knocked me down, and I fell out. I acted like I was knocked out. Actually, I was too tired to continue fighting. And the guys from my building were watching me, and they say, “You’re never, ever gonna lose like this again.” So, they, for a year -- John Whitaker, his name was, by the way, a very smart brother, whose house I used to go to all the time. For a year, they would hit me suddenly, smack, so that I could always learn to block and block. It was fifth grade. By the time the sixth grade came, I challenged him to a fight outside and whipped him pretty bad, [00:30:00] due to the friends who taught me how to fight, how to block, and how simply not to be afraid. Puerto Ricans are traditionally very elegant, very noble people. They never wanted to confront. Black folk would confront, so I learned 16 �from them how to jump in your face and say, “Yeah, well, let me tell you something,” and not to listen to the words and the passion or the decibels of the scream. It meant nothing. Knock this boy out, and that was it. Harlem in those days, remember, I was much more at home. I remember the Muslims coming to 116th Street, the FOI, the Pompadours. (sneezes) Excuse me. It was a wonderful time to be alive. So, I learned another part of the side. Remember, I have the Puerto Rican side. Now I’m deeply immersed in African American. I remember Sweet Daddy Grace, I remember, who was a mystic or an itinerant preacher. And we had a Dominican gentleman, Black Dominican gentleman in the church that I grew up in, which is the first [00:31:00] Black Puerto Rican church, called Templo [Betel?], that new Billie Holiday, so he was swing. I mean, so I ended up with all of these influences, everything, Sam Cooke, Little Willie John, Johnny Ace, Tito Puente, Johnny Pacheco, Machito, I mean, all of it, and I’m just a sponge. Cracktop, we used to play tops, and skelly and ringalario and Johnny on a pony and all that stuff. Well, that had to end, so my mother decided that she had apply -- we were living with my aunt, and we decided to go to Brownsville. So, we go to Brownsville, and that’s when the gang situation came in. Now, I’m leaving Harlem and East Harlem, familial, close, everybody’s family, knew one another, and I go to Brooklyn. Brooklyn was warrior city. JJ: Why was it warrior city? FL: Brownsville, Brownsville. Because everything in Brooklyn was based on your pecking order, everything, whether you got lunch, whether your sister was going 17 �to be protected, [00:32:00] whether your family. Everything was based on whether you could fight and who you could hurt, and in Brownsville -JJ: Was it always like that? FL: Brownsville has always been like that. I don't know what -- Brownsville is where Murder, Incorporated started, so it’s been like that since Jews and Italians were there. There is something about Brownsville that nurtures crime, that nurtures warrior, that nurtures fighting. I tell people all the time, if you think that Harlem is rough, now you think Black folks from Harlem, try Brownsville. Brownsville is serious. They like that. They fight in the wintertime. I couldn’t stand fighting in the wintertime. My hands were too cold. But their thing was, “Throw your hands up, baby. We’re going at it, and we’ll shoot you to the cross.” So, Brownsville gave me a whole ‘nother patina as a warrior. I hated it. I was inferior a lot of the times, but I had a brother and a sister, and I had to protect them. So, I joined a group called the Frenchmen, and the reason I joined the group is my cousin came to me from Canarsie with a beautiful coat, and we were walking to his house, [00:33:00] and a guy put a knife to his neck. And I saw it almost puncturing his skin, and I ran to get my cousin. I say, “Hey, man, you’re gonna hurt him.” And the other, his friend, put a knife to my throat. I was not scared. For some reason, I was not scared. In my mind, I said, “I hope he kills me, because if he doesn’t, I will hunt this brother down.” I never saw them again, so they must’ve been from another community. They took his coat. After that, I said, “I’ll never let this happen again,” and I joined a gang called the Frenchmen, and I never looked back. I became a gangbanger, and I mean to the best to the 18 �best of my ability, we robbed pigeons. We beat up people, and I just -- all of the anger, all of the frustration in me was translated in gang activity. My mother knew something was wrong but not quite sure. We would walk. People would tell her, “Your son is in that gang, and I’ve seen him beating up people and him fighting all the time.” I said, “Mommy, that’s not true.” I lied. I never lied to my mother. One day, she said, “Something [00:34:00] is wrong here because every time we walk up to Livonia, we walk up to Blake or Sutter, you kinda hug me close,” because we’re walking into enemy territory. In those days, they didn’t hit your mother, so they left me alone. I said, “Ma, yeah, I’m in a gang. I’m in a gang. I have to do it to protect myself,” and so she knew that something was wrong. Simultaneously, I’m also very bright, didn’t know how bright I was. I had a teacher named Ethel Shapiro who literally saved my life. She saw that I was in a gang, saw that I was antisocial, saw that I was constantly moving into destructive behavior, and started nurturing me, and I mean nurturing me. Ethel Shapiro taught me the beauty of the English language. She also taught me Yiddish, taught me Jewish history. I became a Judaism freak. I mean, I learned everything about Judaism there was. She taught me the Shema prayer, “Here, O Israel, the Lord thy God is One. Shema yisrael Adonai eloheinu Adonai echad.” I’ll never forget it. She taught me Yiddish. She taught me how to eat sable. [00:35:00] She taught me how to eat whitefish. She taught me. I mean, she literally raised me as if I were her son. She would take me in the back and go through Torah with me, and the mitzvahs, and I learned words like meshuggeneh. She would say, “He’s meshuggeneh.” And I’d say, “What does that mean?” “It means he’s crazy.” I grew up, I had the 19 �best rabbinical education in the world. I ended up becoming very good friends with the Orthodox on Eastern Parkway, the Lubavitch, and I still have great friends there after all these years. I was a [jitterbug?], but I would go up there to see them. Can you imagine that sort of juxtaposition? Miss Shapiro gave me a sense of the possible, and so I learned that I had a brain, and I learned I could write, and she loved me into that. My mother was starting to get very scared. In fact, Miss Shapiro used to accompany me home all the time. My mother knew something was wrong. Miss Shapiro would hold my hand. I said, “Ethel don’t make me hold your hand. These are all Black men watching me.” She said, “So, you’re afraid of a white lady [00:36:00] holding your hand?” And sure enough, she’d walk me through the things after we did afterschool work. And my mother, fearing for my life, took me to California again. This time, we went to LA, and we lived in East LA, which was all Mexican at that time and all gang ridden. I loved it. I loved it because I was a novelty. Here was a Black guy who spoke Spanish and felt totally at home with Mexicans, totally. I had one fight. Of course, you have to have one fight to find who you are in school, went to Hollenbeck Junior High School, and became vice president of the second-largest school in LA in three months. Now, it’s difficult to explain this, but LA is so huge, that if you’re the second largest, it’s like a second city. It’s like a city. JJ: What was the name? FL: Hollenbeck Junior High. Ken Naganishi was president. The only reason he became president, I really got more votes than him, is because I hadn’t taken a civics course, or else I would’ve become president of the school. So, [00:37:00] 20 �here I am again in paradise. My antisocial behavior, my gang activity, I just dropped it like a bad habit, and I was proud. The gangs in the neighborhood in Aliso Village came to me to join, and I said, “I can’t join.” I said, “I’m not going to join, and I’ll tell you what we’re gonna do. If you guys are ever in real trouble, you can call on me, but for now I can’t because I just came from gangs. It would break my mother’s heart. Just do me a favor. Protect my family. You protect my family and leave my family alone, and I will always be there in extreme situations.” They said okay. I was doing well, shotput, junior shotput. I was running the full 40. They were already thinking of UCLA for me, even in junior high school. They said, “This kid is smart. He’s good.” I was going to go to Roosevelt High, but they wanted me to go to another school because Roosevelt was so gang ridden, blah, blah, blah. Went out with a Japanese girl, Ruth. I was in love. I just was happy. My mother couldn’t make it. Here was the turning point. I had told the guys that they had to protect my family. My cousin, who had been in a gang in Brooklyn, was sent to California. He was still into the gangbanging thing. And he went out with a girl who he was told not to go out with. Now, the way gangs work is there’s certain laws that you have to follow, and if a guy tells you, “Don’t mess with my girl,” you don’t mess with his girl. But he did because he thought he was a tough guy. He’s from New York, and he had an arrogant attitude, and they came up to me, Sparky, I’ll never forget, and said, “Your cousin is going out with my girl, man. I don’t like it, man. Please tell him to stop.” I said, “I’ll tell him, but don’t hurt him.” He said, “Okay, but you gotta tell him.” So, I go up to Jose, and I told him, “You can’t fool around with this girl. I 21 �mean, it’s not good for us. I mean, we’re under the aegis of this gang, and you’re --” “Oh, man, these punks ain’t gonna do it. They’re just California hicks.” Well, [00:39:00] they caught him one day, and they put a hatchet through the window. They almost killed him, and they came running to me. “Your cousin, they’re gonna kill your cousin.” I ran to the backyard. We had backyards in California, two-story houses for projects, if you can believe it. You had your own little house. And I said, “Sparky, you said you were not gonna hurt my cousin.” He said, “I told him, and I told you to tell him.” I said, “But that’s my cousin.” He said, “You told me to protect your brother and sister. That’s your cousin.” I said, “It’s still my family, man. That’s how Puerto Ricans roll. This is all family.” He said, “I don’t care. I’m not Puerto Rican.” And I hit him, bang. The whole group jumped on me. I just got one shot, but I caught him flush, and we were rolling. I put my arms under his armpits, and they were hitting me into him because I put my neck under his chest. And it was real bad. Now, they were trying to hit me with the hatchet, the same hatchet they tried to kill my cousin with. Everybody ran out. My mother ran out. My aunt ran out. Both of them fainted, speaking tongues, all that stuff. My little old grandmother [00:40:00] came out, four foot, I don't know, it was five-foot-one? I don’t know how she separated us. She was talking to Sparky in Spanish, and Sparky was saying, “Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am.” I’ll always remember his respect for her, “Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am.” But he started him, and she, (Spanish) [00:40:16]. And she was talking to us like that. He said, “Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am.” And when she separated a little more, I hit him again, bing, and then she turn around and smacked me. And he liked that 22 �because she was being fair. Then she invited us all in for Kool-Aid, and that was the end of that gang fight. We resolved it. But my grandma said, “I can’t have you guys here,” and she sent us back to New York, sent my mother too. I knew that it was time lights out for me, and I told my mother. I said, “Ma, if we go back to New York, I’m not gonna make it. I’m gonna be back in the gang, and I know it. I can feel it in my bones.” But we came back to New York, and within two years -- I was 14 -- by 16, I was in for murder. Somebody had [00:41:00] messed with my brother, a gang in Bushwick. We had moved to Bushwick, a hovel of a one-bedroom, rats. Oh, it was horrible. Bushwick was, oof. We lived on Granite Street. I met some good friends there, friends I still have, but it was a very difficult situation for me. JJ: You’re wanted for murder. Where did you go to? FL: We hurt this guy, and one of my friends stabbed him. I was the ringleader, so we all went up. I went to Elmira, and then I went to Coxsackie, which is, again, gladiator school, and did two years there, came out, miraculously. And when I came out, I was 18. Some teacher took some [HARYOU act?], sort of [antibody?] program, took a test at me, looked at my marks, and said, “This kid is smart,” and sent me to Queens College. There was a program for ex-cons there, because no other college would take me. CCNY rejected me. Brooklyn rejected me. But Queens College, way out in the sticks, I thought, Kissena Boulevard in Flushing, NY. I went there, [00:42:00] and I became one of the five cons who was in the program. All of us did well, by the way. And I didn’t know this, but I had a propensity for scholarship. I did very well. The first semester, I got an A- 23 �plus in philosophy, in fact, an elective course called Aesthetics run by a guy named John McDermott. Math was hard. I had to take physics for physics majors. I got a D-plus in that, and I was so happy I just got a D-plus. At least I passed. I did well. But I met a guy named Saul Resnick, who was a socialist, and he began to teach me about revolution. And after I read about the French Revolution, after I read about -- what was it -- The Federalist Papers, after I read about all of the major pamphleteers at the time, Franklin, Adams, Madison, the arguments, Rousseau, we were reading Marcuse. We were reading, I mean, just Mumford. I was involved in new thought. I was also reading Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton, Black Power. I started teaching courses. Even though I was still in school, I was teaching Black power courses. So, as soon as I come out, I’m in Queens College, I join a group of poets called The Last Poets, and I become the first Puerto Rican member of that group, and the last, and we start going across the country doing -- we were the spawners. We’re the godfathers of the hip-hop movement. I meet Rap Brown, Stokely Carmichael, Field Marshall Donald Cox, Bobby Seale, James Forman. Rap Brown became my main (inaudible), best man at my first wedding, with Iris Morales. And [00:44:00] I was in. Now, eventually, the poetry led me into revolutionary activity. Puerto Ricans would come to The East Wing, which is the loft we had on 125th Street, and would keep on telling me, “Yes, you’re Black, but you’re Puerto Rican, and we need you here.” And I didn’t think Puerto Ricans were ready for armed struggle. I went through cultural nationalism with Amiri Baraka, who I still love and support and befriend to this day. We had a mutual defense pact. If they messed with his 24 �people, I would be there. If they messed with ours, he’d be there. He had a group called Committee for Unified Newark. Just imagine this now. Imagine the poetry. Imagine looking at Albert Ayler, Sun Ra, Leon Thomas, Pharoah Sanders, Nikki Giovanni, Barbara Ann Teer and the National Black Theatre. It was the most incredible time to be alive. At the same time, I was also listening to [00:45:00] Ginsburg down at the Nuyorican Poets Café. I would meet with him all the time. Ezra Pound lived on my block in the East Village. I was going out with different cultures, Ronni Brown, who was Jewish, who helped me run guns at that time, Joan Meinhardt, who was my teacher (laughs) at the time but who I loved dearly, who I left. JJ: What do you mean, “helped you run guns”? FL: Ronni, we needed -- Rap and I were building a cell. Rap was building a cell, and we needed guns. And we had to transport it from one place to another. Rap was never a racist, and he would say, “Well, if that’s your girlfriend, that’s your girlfriend, but we need a car.” And I sat with her, “Ronni, let me drive.” I said, “Let me drive.” I said, “Anything happens, I’ll say I stole it.” She said, “No. If anything’s gonna happen, I’m gonna drive the car because you can’t drive. You don’t have a license. I’ll drive it.” So, this little Jewish girl form Bayside, New York -- may she rest in peace; she died, and I loved her dearly, maybe didn’t show it as much as I should have, but I did -- [00:46:00] helped me transport the guns to Rap. Rap and I were part of an underground cell, along with Sam Melville, one of the finest bombers I’ve ever met, and a few other guys in that cell, and we did what we had to do. I never met a more brave warrior in my life, 25 �bar none, black, brown, white, yellow, polka-dot, red. Rap Brown was, and to me, still is, one of the finest warriors in America and taught me a lot and was the one who told me, “You got to go back into your own community.” And I said, “I’m not -- I’m here. I’m a Black Puerto Rican. I’m helping define cultural nationalism, revolutionary nationalism, socialism.” He said, “Felipe, your job here is done. You put the B in Black nationalism here on 125th Street, you, and Gylan Kain, and Amiri Baraka and Larry Neal and the Braith brothers,” the Braithwaites, I mean. We were doing tremendous jobs, organizing workshops, but he said, “Your job is [00:47:00] to go back to your community and work with it.” So, Mickey Meléndez, David Perez, Denise Oliver, Yoruba would come over, and I wasn’t part of the group yet, came over and got me, recruited me to start a group called La Sociedad de Albizu Campos, and we started there. JJ: What year was this? FL: This was late ’68. JJ: And where was that at? FL: Pardon me? JJ: Where did you start it? FL: Where did we start? JJ: Yeah. FL: In El Barrio. We would have meetings all the time. Little did they know that I had already started a group. I had been trying to work with Victor Hernández Cruz and another guy named George Rivera. I had already gone to Bobby Seale before I met these guys and tried to start a Puerto Rican group. I’d gone to 26 �Bobby and James Forman and a guy named Pennywell, if I’m not mistaken. And I said, “Bobby, I’d like to start --” Thank God, we got a meeting with him. I was in awe. He always very humble, very noble man, and he listened to me patiently. James Forman was looking at me with aspersion, looking at me like I was [00:48:00] not equal to him. Let me just put it to you that way. And he said, “What do you want to do?” I said, “We’re ready for armed struggle.” I had already bought my first rifle. I was ready. I can’t explain to you what it felt like at that time to see the destruction of a community in stages, just started crumbling right underneath you. The Barrio that I came back to after jail was not the Barrio that I had left, warm, familial, music, gangs that protected. This was a Barrio that was riddled with drugs, riddled with materialism, and everyone was looking out for themselves. Nobody was caring for families, older people, young people. I was in shock. I was traumatized, and I knew something had to happen. And I saw cops beating up dope fiends. It was horrible. Families were broken. Families that I knew had mothers and fathers suddenly were by themselves. The women were by themselves. So, I wanted to do something, and [00:49:00] I was caught up in the fact that King had died. King was killed. In fact, I left my teacher, Joan Meinhardt, because I couldn’t live with her. I just couldn’t. I just had to fight. I had to be as Black as I could, and she said, “You’re gonna get killed.” I remember leaving her house on Bank Street with her screaming in the background. It’s a hard image. Anyway, I went with Nikki, and I went with the other Young Lords, not Young Lords at the time, and we started cleaning up the streets. 27 �JJ: Before that, there was a couple other groups. Was it The Pickles or something? FL: Yeah, there was another group with Pickle. JJ: They were Young Lords too? FL: They were part of us. The original Young Lords was me, David Perez from Chicago, Pablo Guzmán, Juan Gonzalez, and Fi Ortiz. Three of us were Black Puerto Ricans, which was interesting because that had never happened before, [00:50:00] big ol’ fros. And we started recruiting. And then we had hooked up -Fi had introduced -- we had hooked up with Pickle. JJ: Yeah, because Fi was with Pickle, right? FL: Right, Fi was with Pickle. Fi was part of a gang thing, and so we had recruited him. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) was called the Young Lords, the gang? FL: No, it wasn’t called the Young, not that I know of anyway. But these were good guys, and I liked them, and we got along pretty well. And we all came together. Eventually, through attrition, people began to -- because we began to really deal with scholarship, began to deal with reading, began to deal with a refining period, and a lot of street guys either couldn’t or wouldn’t handle it. So, we realized as we were organizing that we’re spending more and more time on the streets than in classroom. We had to make a decision, and it was a difficult decision to make, not for me. I was definitely afraid of exams. I had got a D-plus in physics, so I didn’t want to go through that again. I left college. It was a [00:51:00] tremendous amount of anger in me. JJ: So, you guys were the organizers. 28 �FL: We were the organizers, the primary organizers for us. There were three colleges involved, CCNY, which is where we’re taping this today; Queens College, me; Nikki had gone there for a while; and the University of Old Westbury, which is where we got Denise Oliver, Pablo Guzmán, and David Perez, and [Moon?] too and a few others who had been there. Before I go any further with this, I should add, and this may come as a shock to most people, one-third of the party was African American, all supporting Puerto Rican independence. So, that nonsense that you cannot have people from other cultures supporting your particular ideological aims and vision is not true. The one-third of that group were all Muslim, so think about that. My brother, Lucky, [00:52:00] older brother, was one of the first Puerto Rican Muslims here in New York City. He’s dead now. Now we realize we’ve got to do something. We start with, I had a little group called the Harlem Action Committee, a little anti-poverty program we start. We asked the people, what do they need? And we really meant this. We took a little poll. [And we told the viejitas?], and I thought they were going to say they was tired of our kids being beaten up by police. I thought were going to talk about welfare. I wanted something that was a real target, something that was romantic and bold and violent. They told us, “Could you just pick up the garbage? Could you get the sanitation department to pick up the garbage?” My ego was so deflated. I mean, that just took the wind out of my sails, but that’s what the people wanted. Number-one lesson in revolutionary activity, listen to the people. Listen to their wants, their needs, and their visions. It’s the first thing you gotta do. So, of course, we decided to test it. We 29 �[00:53:00] swept, and we’d put the garbage in plastic bags and put them on the corner very neat. First weekend, nobody came. They would come Tuesday. Now, after a weekend of summer activity, and as you know, we drink a lot of beer, it smelled a lot. So, what we did is we decided to test it to a second week, and we did it again. By the second week, we had had it. JJ: Is that once a week or -- FL: Yeah, it was a once-a-week pickup and particularly on weekends, and they weren’t coming that many times. And if it was a two-time-a-week thing, it wasn’t enough for the garbage that was being produced. JJ: That you swept. FL: Yeah, that we swept. So, there was also community garbage. So, the first thing we needed to do was get brooms, and we went to a garbage station, and we told the guy, “Look, we need brooms.” [00:54:00] I remember this guy, kinda portly, who looked at us with such disdain. I said, “Well, could you give us some brooms? Could you let us borrow ‘em? We’ll bring ‘em right back.” “Who the hell are you?” Now, remember, I’m from jail. I don’t fear anything but God, and He and I have problems. This guy was telling me I couldn’t. I just pushed him, boom, to the side. And I remember the looks on the Lords, because I think they were thinking the revolution was romantic and that you could talk about it, but you can’t do it. But I’m coming from the Brooklyn House of Detention, where cats are getting raped, and we’re talking about [yaku?] and the white man and 66 million years of caveman activity, and Black men should do for self, and I’m coming out of the projects, where everything was about confrontation. This man 30 �was not a problem. We went and took the brooms, and we brought ‘em back. One thing I will add is that every time a leader [00:55:00] makes a moves or makes a move that is out of the ordinary for the group, something happens to the group. They begin to see him a little differently, some envy, some jealousy, just light, and it’s almost unconscious. But the seeds of the destruction of the Lords started right around there. But I’ll give you some other examples, and we gotta go because you gotta get outta here. JJ: Yeah, we’ve got about 15 minutes. FL: Okay. We put the garbage on the streets. Sanitation didn’t come. We put the garbage on the streets, and it stopped traffic. We didn’t know that when you stop traffic, you stop commerce. We did that for several weeks running. It was called The Garbage Offensive. And when the cops started realizing that we were going to do this every Saturday or every Friday evening, they decided to come in squads of sanitation men and police cars and throw the garbage out and put it into the garbage. [00:56:00] So, what we did is we set fire to them, and so they could do it, towering 10 feet of fire. That was the first offensive we had. The second offensive was the church. We started doing breakfast program based on what the Panthers had done. We decided to build a breakfast program. It was enormously successful. We were having a problem delivering food, just didn’t have enough, and when we went to the bodegueros, they would give us a hard time. Sometimes they would give it to us out of, you know, ay bendito stuff. I get a call from a guy, one of the street guys I knew, said, “Felipe, somebody wants to talk to you down the block.” Now, the only guy down the block was the mafia 31 �guy. So, I went down there into his warehouse, and he says, “I like what you guys are doing.” He was half Puerto Rican, half Italian. He said, “I like what you guys are doing. You’re not messing with any of our businesses.” Because I asked him, “Why am I here? Did we do anything? Is there [00:57:00] something we need to resolve?” He said, “Nah, take it easy. Sit down.” And he kept on looking on me. He said, “You need anything?” Now, when the boys ask you, “Do you need anything,” you know there’s going to be a quid pro quo, so I said no. He said, “You sure?” And something in me said, “Tell him.” I said, “We’re having a hard problem getting food.” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Orange juice, milk, bread, eggs, bacon.” Shook his, just going like that with his head. He said, “How much do you need?” I said, “A lot. We serve a lot of kids.” He said, “Tomorrow, you’ll have no problem. Go to any store in East Harlem, no problem.” The same bodegueros who gave us hard times and sometimes would curse us, had the stuff ready for us when we got there, which just shows you the power of power, the nature of power. He had put the word out, “Give these kids anything they want.” Our breakfast program was tremendously successful. Then we went on to a garbage offensive, I’m sorry, to a hospital offensive, and we took over Lincoln Hospital [00:58:00] because so many people were dying. We had found out that a Puerto Rican woman had died from a simple scraping, and we decided to take that hospital over. We took over a TV truck. But going back to the breakfast program, we couldn’t find a place to cook the food. And we went to this one guy, the First Spanish Methodist Church on 111th and Lexington. I remember I used to go to preschool there. And the Cuban minister told us that we were 32 �Castro-ites and that we were not to be even tolerated, threw us out. So, for six weeks, we went there, and on the seventh week, I couldn’t take it anymore. I stood up to talk on testimonial Sunday. I ran to the front of the church. The cops told me, “If you don’t --” He had cops in the church, the minister, made sure that he had cops there. We were shocked because this was supposed to be a sanctuary. We didn’t want to hurt them. Well, he told me, “Well, Mr. Luciano, it’s either here or outside.” I said, “Well, then we’ll do it right here,” and that’s when they began to beat the hell out of me. It’s the second-worst beating I’ve gotten in my life. I almost fainted. [00:59:00] There was a little voice that said, “Go to sleep.” By the way, when the voice tells you, “Go to sleep,” don’t go to sleep. I caught one in the face. I caught another one with my elbow, but I was overwhelmed, and they broke my arm in two places, and they gave me about eight stitches, seven, eight stitches in the head. I was a little in shock because the other Lords were in the back, and they were looking from the pews. I was hoping that I’d get some help. I began to realize the limits of revolutionary fervor. I was a true believer, coming out of a Pentecostal background. Thirteen of us were arrested. That gave us a reputation worldwide. It went around the world. Jane Fonda came to our church. We opened up the church. Oh, what happened is they bust us; they tell us we can’t go back to the church, so the next week after they arrest us and beat us up, we took the church over, and we opened it up for breakfast. JJ: That’s when people got arrested or -- 33 �FL: No. The people got arrested the first time. [01:00:00] After we took over the church, we kept it open for a month or two, and they arrested all of us. JJ: That’s what, about 100 people who were arrested? FL: Yeah, in the second, after we had finished the breakfast program. There was some voices of dissension. We were having some problems. A, we had guys that were -- I believed that certain people should never be allowed to join the party, particularly those who talked a lot but weren’t ready to throw down. One guy came into our office and said, “I could make bombs outta bulbs,” and said just too much. And I told him, “Either you’re an agent or a fool.” His name was Julio Roldan. He got busted on one of the last garbage offensives and couldn’t handle it. [01:01:00] Incarceration is a very strange thing. I’m not putting this on him. I’m just saying that some people can handle this; some people can’t. He hung himself. The Lords lied. I was already out of power. The reason I was out of power, I was demoted, is because I had made love to -- Yoruba and I went to a woman’s house. They were informants. We didn’t know it at the time. And I went to their house, and they started talking to me. Yoruba went into the room with one. I went in, stayed in the living room with another, and she gave me some pot. The pot immediately got me sick and woozy. I did not feel well. I almost felt suicidal. I told her, “The window is too open. Can you close it?” She opened it up even more. I didn’t know it, but I was being drugged by PCP, and I found that a lot of revolutionaries had been drugged like that. And it must’ve been a massive dose because I had only taken two puffs. [01:02:00] Something in me said this woman is an agent, and it’s too late for me. I couldn’t move. And 34 �I said, “You got me up here. You better bring me down.” Somehow, I stayed up 12 hours, and I threw up. Now, after I threw up, for some reason, I wanted to get back at -- I wanted to conquer, and so I made love to her, or whatever you call it. I don’t think it was love. Yoruba walks in, sees me. Pablo sees me. I knew that there was some sort of jealousy maybe, envy, with most of the guys. I saw this in the Central Committee. I was a two-fisted bro, which is what we needed at that time. There were people in the party who told me that the guys who were Central Committee members at the time, while they liked me, they weren’t exactly in love with me. But the liked the fact that I could lead people and that I had a very good touch with folks in the street. [01:03:00] So, Yoruba comes in and sees me on this woman, and he’s in shock, and he goes right back into his room. I get up. It’s all over. As we were going back home, we were supposed to report every 24 hours, and we hadn’t. And as we’re coming out, I said, “Pablo, don’t tell. Don’t go to the party office and say anything. I will tell.” I was married to Iris Morales. I was married to one of our party members. And Yoruba goes right back to the office and tells everybody. So, from a street point of view, he was wrong. From a revolutionary point of view, he may have been right, but I thought we had a relationship. And he should’ve said, “Let Felipe explain it to you. Let the chairman explain what happened. I’m not going to say anything ‘til he comes.” Didn’t happen that way. Well, I was accused of male chauvinism. The party got into my business, the relationship that I had with Iris. JJ: (inaudible) male chauvinism because you were married? 35 �FL: Because I was married, and I went [01:04:00] with this white girl. This is no justification, and there’s no reason to bring this up, but I’ma bring it up. Everybody was doing everybody in the party, even dope fiends. The majority of the defense department were all drug addicts, and they were [screwing with?]. In those days, AIDS was not thought of, so people had boyfriends who were drug addicts. Denise had one. Myrna had one. We had a lot of -- it was okay. It was the way. You know, drug addicts were part of our family. Anyway, I was accused of male chauvinism and unclear politics, and I was demoted. The demotion was so severe to me. I put my lifeblood into this organization. And to make a long story short, Julio Roldan is -- so, I’m demoted, and I feel just such enmity, such venom, vitriol from the people that I helped organize. So, in the interim, the party had decided to [01:05:00] take over the People’s Church again with guns because Julio Roldan had killed himself, and they lied and said that Julio Roldan was killed by police. It was a lie. Yoruba knows it was a lie, will admit to it to this day. And they used that as an organizing tactic. I would’ve never agreed with that. You never lie to the people. They take over the People’s Church with guns, some of the guns that I had bought, and they take over the People’s Church, and people rally to their cry. It was romantic. It was the worst move they could’ve made. When I walked into the People’s Church with the guns, I noticed that kids, that the members, high-ranking members were not supposed to be (inaudible). I said, “Well, who’s here? Who’s gonna fight it out?” There was nobody of any importance. I said, “This is ridiculous.” I got very pissed off at the way it was handled. I thought there was no planning in it. [01:06:00] It may have been 36 �romantic. And I saw a kid, about 12, with a break-over shotgun, a break-gun shotgun, just taking 30-caliber bullets, and it was sliding. He said, “I wonder why this is happening.” I said, “My God.” I remember asking David, “David, how are you gonna escape? Do you have access? Do you have access?” And he goes, “You have an escape plan. Before you think of any battle, you think of strategy, tactics, and possible escape routes.” He said, “We’re gonna drill through the wall into the subway.” I knew he had already developed what we call siege mentality, where you think the impossible is possible. But what really got me mad is nobody in the Central Committee was going to be in there when the cops came, when the shooting was going to start. So, I had called a meeting, Pi and I. I said, “I can’t believe how cowardly you guys are, how ill-planned this is, illconceived. I’ve seen things I would never have believed that you would plan it this way. Are you trying to compensate for me not being here [01:07:00] anymore? Are you trying to tell people you’re tough guys? There’s a way to do this, and this is not the way.” And I took my beret and threw it into the middle of the room. Nobody moved. Pi and I were pretty good with our hands. But they could’ve moved. They didn’t. And I left. Immediately after, about three months after, I hear that Pablo’s going out with -- and I knew this was COINTELPRO. COINTELPRO was working overtime. Yoruba’s now going out with Iris, and in those days, I was a Puerto Rican macho, and I was going to kill him. Thank God I didn’t. I loved his mother; I loved his father, and I love him. I love Iris. I love all of the Young Lords, and while we may have had our differences, I think we were divinely ordained to do what we had to do. So, just to show you how still into the 37 �streets I was, I had a knife. I was ready to stab Yoruba because he was going with Iris. Oh, my God. [01:08:00] Thank God. Here’s the end of my story. As I’m ready to stab him, I was looking for the right spot in his neck to stick the knife into the jugular, and the former defense department that I knew were waiting on a line, three of them, to put me into a car to drive me to safe houses that Mickey Meléndez was supposed to have set up. As I’m ready to stab him, I just happened to look in the sky. Went like that just to get him off focus so that I can - when you go like this and the other person goes like that, and you go bing, and I saw the New York Post, and I swear to you, I said, “YLP destroyed by love triangle,” and I said, “Oh, my God. This is the government.” Even if it were true, first of all, no man has a right to tell a woman who to make love to. If you’re separated from her, that’s it, and no is no. And I remember Iris saying, “You think you’re so tough.” [01:09:00] I remember her, hearing her voice. “He’s softer than you,” or, “He’s not as hard as you.” The voice was slowly -- I said, “You deserve each other,” and I left them both, and I walked away. I am very happy I didn’t kill that boy. He’s a great reporter for CBS. He’s a great writer. It would’ve destroyed his mother and his father, whom I loved dearly. His kids wouldn’t have had a father. Iris has turned out to be a great lawyer. She now runs MNN, the public TV. And everyone turned out fairly well, with the exception of the defense department, all the drug addicts, Bobby Lemus. These are the guys that I feel them; I live with them, Robles, Bobby Lemus, Georgie Littleman, my brother Lucky, GI, Frenchie, [01:10:00] Huracan. These were all of the people who didn’t make it. That is, after the Lords, the subsequent illnesses that develop out of 38 �heroin addiction killed them all. But they’re the ones that I owe a great deal of gratitude for, and they’re the ones I love. And to this day, my mission, as I’m in seminary school right now -- I’m in the last year of my master’s program in Union Theological Seminary -- my mission is to those, the marginalized, the criminal, so-called, the oppressed. I’m not interested in the do-gooders, the nice kids, the predisposed. I want hardcore, men and women who just, it’s like this, who do or die. Those are the ones I love, and those are the ones I’m committed to. JJ: Any final thoughts, or that was it? [01:11:00] FL: My final thoughts are I wish that the Young Lords would get over the past. We continue to hurl accusations at each other that have kept our community from moving forward and us from moving forward. We need to heal old wounds. We need to say, “I’m sorry,” because after my demotion, the Lords ended up in a feeding frenzy. They beat each other up over who spoke Spanish and who didn’t. Many of the Black members left because they felt unwelcome. We went through a cultural nationalism phase. We went to Puerto Rico, which was illconceived, bad. And we began to eat each other up. Remember that when you cut off leadership, I’m not saying it’s just for me, but when you cut the head off and don’t try to nurture leadership, while I may not have been the best, I knew I was good at what I did. They also cut themselves off from community, which was my forte. It’s not that I’m better. Everybody has a gift. [01:12:00] Yoruba’s gift is public relations. Yoruba could get press when anybody could. Juan was a great strategist. David was a fantastic community person. [Jíbaro?] up to the bone and gave us that Puerto Rican edge. And Fi was a great gang person, and of 39 �course I was an orator, so we had a wonderful conglomeration of great people. Eventually, we also had to remember that we didn’t have women, so Iris came in, and Denise came in, and Gloria came in. And of course, they started blaming a woman named Gloria for having engendered all of the problems in the Lords, which are not true. They allowed it to happen. And we ended up killing, hurting each other. COINTELPRO was behind every one of those moves, every one of those moves that helped to destroy the party. My last thoughts are that we’re now in our 60s. If we could just tell each other how much we love each other, Fi, David, Iris, Richie Pérez is now dead, but if we could just get [01:13:00] by this and say, “Look, I forgive you,” as I do, Pablo, as I do, Iris, as I do, Pi, as I do, Huey, as I do all of them. If we could just say, let us now begin to work on a new version and leave a legacy of love, militancy, intelligence, scholarship, and revolutionary activity for our children so that our kids could get to know each other, so that our communities could heal, we need to do that. And so, if I could say anything to whoever’s watching this, and to the Lords who may be watching this, is that let’s get past the past. We are new creatures. Let’s forgive each other. Let’s walk hand-in-hand into that new future. JJ: Thank you very much. END OF VIDEO FILE 40 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a1ebf1a457114216024c6b0eeb2757a.mp4 b036a1f968ea849b57c6a00533bca272 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Felipe Luciano vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Felipe Luciano, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 3/15/2013 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Luciano_Felipe Title A name given to the resource Felipe Luciano video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Luciano, Felipe Description An account of the resource Oral history of Felipe Luciano, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 3/15/2013 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-03-15 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b4aa17c0da9cccdc0381b833833384b4.mp4 428f33bdc6afd24b274a5145f2f8fc5f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a4f12f103dca0589d7c6a166533bbad.pdf eea8206d1fcef617fed9a94184b434f6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Post- Persian Gulf War Era John Luckett Interview Length: (00:00:10:30) Early Life/ Naval Training (00:00:13:00)  Luckett was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1972. (00:00:14:00)  He has two sisters: one older and one younger. (00:00:15:00)  Luckett’s family moved to Grand Rapids when he was 12 years old. (00:00:22:00) o While living Grand Rapids, he attended two different elementary schools and two different high schools. (00:00:30:00)  Luckett was the only one in his immediate family to enlist in the military. (00:00:59:00) o At the time of his enlistment, was working a part- time job and attending Davenport University. (00:01:10:00) o The main reason that he enlisted was because he “needed a change” and wanted to avoid the “trouble” that some of his friends were getting involved in. (00:01:20:00)  Luckett received a phone call from a recruiter one day about enlisting, which solidified his decision to join. (00:01:40:00)  After deciding to join, he was flown to Chicago to a training base [Great Lakes] where he stayed for eight weeks. (00:02:05:00) Active Duty (00:02:35:00)  After training camp, a recruit get to pick his or her “orders” and Luckett’s orders were to [Norfolk] Virginia. (00:02:40:00) o He first served on an aircraft carrier and was then transferred to a nearby weapons station. He spent roughly 3 years at each location. (00:02:51:00)  Luckett also spent some time serving in the Mediterranean. (00:03:30:00) o While here, he witnessed several planes on their way to bombing raids, but this was the extent of his experience with active combat. (00:03:40:00)  He served from 1991 to 1998. (00:04:20:00) o Whenever he had time off, his first priority was seeing his family. (00:04:31:00)  Luckett traveled to Greece, France, Spain, Italy, Florida, and several small islands south of the United States while serving. One thing he really enjoyed about the Navy was being able to travel. (00:04:42:00)  He wished that he would have finished school before enlisting so he could have been an officer (00:05:40:00)  He was taught to be a “gunner’s mate”, however he was never actually able to fly as he aspired to because it required extra experience beyond the naval training. (00:06:25:00) o His job was to take care of all the small arms on the carriers. This mean relocating them about the ship and repairing any that were damaged. (00:06:33:00)  Luckett thinks that learning to be a military man is simple in that “you do what they ask you to do”. (00:07:10:00)  He was serving in Virginia when his service time expired, working at a weapons station on the U.S.S. Yorktown. (00:07:30:00) �   Navy men are required to spend so much time serving at sea before they can serve on shore. (00:08:08:00) o This made adjusting to civilian life moderately easy because he spent time onshore before actually returning to his home. (00:08:11:00) Luckett still stays closely connected with fellow navy men (00:09:17:00) From his naval experience, Luckett was introduced to many of the differences that exist between cultures. He thinks he would never have noticed these things otherwise because he was so firmly rooted to his home in Michigan (00:09:23:00) o From this experience, he also learned that “everyone has their own course in life”. (00:10:03:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LuckettJ Title A name given to the resource Luckett, John (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Luckett, John Description An account of the resource John Luckett entered the United States Navy in 1991, following the Persian Gulf War. He was sent to a naval training base in Chicago where he spent eight weeks after expressing an interest in joining the navy to a local recruiter. During his service time he was stationed at several locations around the world including France, Spain, and Italy. Luckett was a Gunner's Mate, which meant he was in charge of small weapons management on aircraft carriers. This job involved the repair and relocation of single-man weapons onboard the ship. Luckett was not involved in any active combat during his service. He returned to the Virginia coast to serve on the U.S.S. Yorktown just before he was sent home in 1998. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Taylor, Travis (Interviewer) Parker, Weston (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/75d9937eb43320576c6d4ee8342564ef.m4v 3163937d868a95cb4fe01c393df640c9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1253d716bc88ed3aab9014c94b77a443.pdf 5c7d58b20ecb8c2520f77b7070e140f7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Korean War Gordon Ludema Length of interview (12:23) (00:00) Background Served as a staff sergeant for the U.S. Air Force. (00:17) When the attack on Pearl Harbor occured, he was 11 years old living on a farm in Dorr, Michigan. At his age, he didn’t have much of a grasp of what was happening. (04:29) Worked in a garage as a mechanic while in high school. (00:39) Enlisted in the Air Force after high school in order to avoid being drafted into the army. (00:27) Joined the service in August 1948. (00:56) (01:06) Basic Training Basic training took place in Texas for 13 weeks. All of their drilling was done in 100 degree weather. (01:11) Didn’t learn to fly until after basic training. (01:28) (01:41) Service Overseas Served in Japan when the Korean War started. (01:41) Flew 104 combat missions while in Korea. (01:56) Flew DC-3 planes, one of the oldest Air Force airlines. Every country involved in the Korean War had them. (06:55) Served as a radio operator. At night, his unit was responsible for dropping flares while the enemy was moving their convoys. This allowed U.S. fighters and bombers could wipe out their convoys. (02:02) Dropped three or four flares at a time that were equipped with parachutes. (07:32) Recalls that his missions were very scary. Says that their planes were shot at almost every time they flew, but were only actually hit once when a large shell had gone off. They dove to miss it and could hear the shell pellets hit the plane, but were not shot down. (02:29) His most memorable experience occured while flying over Wonsan harbor in North Korea. Their plane lost power at 5,000 ft with surrounding mountains at 6,800 ft. Describes their circling manuevers to avoid them. (02:56) Kept in touch with his family by writing them weekly. (03:30) In his free time, he took courses through the United States Armed Services Institute. Describes his free time as rather boring and slow. (03:50) Was never injured during his service. (06:50) Was stationed in Iwakuni, Japan, and duscusses the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Thought that the bombings were drastic, but necessary. (05:15) His outfit was on alert to move into China, but the operation was cancelled once MacArthur was fired. Didn’t think that moving into China would have extended the war. �(08:46) Had a three year enlistment agreement that was extended for an extra year. Because he had furlow time, he was discharged a month early in July of 1952. (06:20) (08:21) Life After Service Was living in Coopersville when the Korean War ended. (08:21) Still keeps in touch with one of his good friends who served all four years in Korea with him. Hasn’t seen most of the people that he flew with in years. (09:30) His outfit, nicknamed The Fireflies, does not organize reunions. (09:55) When he returned to the United States, he began working in the car business purchasing cars at auctions for car dealers in Michgian, Indiana, North Dakota, Minnesota, and Nebraska. Still buys and sells cars today. (10:19) His experience in the service made him realize that although he doesn’t like war, it can be necessary when talking is ineffective. (11:06) Thinks that our current involvement in Iraq is necessary and that more action against the insurgents is still needed. (11:42) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LudemaG Title A name given to the resource Ludema, Gordon (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ludema, Gordon Description An account of the resource Gordon Ludema served as a staff sergeant for the U.S. Air Force during the Korean War. After high school in August of 1948, he enlisted in the Air Force in order to avoid being drafted into the army. After spending 13 weeks in Texas for basic training, he learned to fly DC-3 planes before his outfit went overseas. He served as a radio operator and at night, his outfit was responsible for dropping flares so that U.S. fighters and bombers could attack enemy convoys. While in Korea and Japan, he flew a total of 104 combat missions. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Chrzanowski, Ryan (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-06-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/933303fd86acbd3719f73adb6d94398e.pdf ab5ee8f5064aec4de9d0b9324623d440 PDF Text Text I II I I I I .. . .. ·,. LUDINGTON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN I I I WEST MICHIGAN REGIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION �FRO\·i 7~•E Li0;-1f\.~'i' OF l?lanning & Zon;ng .Ce!l~~r, Irie . • • • • •I I I I I I I I I . LUDINGTON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN by: Ludington Planning Commission with assistance from: West Michigan Regional Planning Commission 1987 �•II I •I LUDINGTON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN I I I •I • •I I •I • • • Ludington City Planning Commission - 1987 Helen M. Nelson, Chairperson &John R. Bulger Joe R. Clark Beverly J. Gavigan Paul J. Ivkovich Martin Page Ronald L. Scott Robert E. Sha"' Douglas Shoup Other Contributing Previous Planning Commission Members James Braden Jack Ereon Harold Hill Betty Maskal Frank Petersen Jan Tava Jan Dues Wi 11 i am Hartley John Markov Bruce McFarren Paul Peterson �TABLE OF CONTENTS Table of Contents • • . List of Tables . . List of Figures . . . Resolutions of Adoption I. II. i iii iii iv Introduction. 1 Goals, Policies, and Implementation Techniques Economic Development .....•..•.•.•• Housing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Central Business District/Commercial Development . Transportation . • • . • . . • . • . • • • • • Recreation and Cultural Services . • • • • • . Physical Development . . . • . • • . • • • . . . • 5 5 6 8 11 12 13 III. Community Characteristics . • • • Location and Setting. • • . • •••••••.• Natural Resources • . • . • • • • • Geology, Topography and Soils . • • . Lakes and Rivers • . • •..••• Groundwater Quality • . . . • • . • • . . . . . . Climate • . . • • • • . . • • • . . . .• Population. . . . . • • .••. Population Projection .•.•.. Seasonal Variations . • • • • • • . • • • • • • . Population Characteristics . . • • . • .. Economy • • . . • . • • • • . .•. Employment. • • . • . • • • • • • . ••••• Workforce . . • • . . • . . • . • . . . • Economic Activity by Sector . • . . ••. Construction Activity . • • • • • • • • • • . Regional Economy • . • • . • • • • . • • • • . • . Economic Development Activity . • . • . • • . Neighborhood Characteristics. . . • ....•. Comparative Housing Characteristics •.. Census Block Characteristics • . • . • . . . • . • 15 15 15 15 17 18 18 18 18 20 20 23 24 25 26 27 28 28 29 29 30 IV. Community Facilities . . . . . . . . . Transportation • . • . . . • . • . . . . • . • • . . Roads and Streets . . . . . . . • • . Rail Transportation •.. Lake Transportation . . . • • . • . . . . . . Air Transportation . . •. Public Transportation . • . . . . . .. . Utilities . . . . . . . ....... . Public Sewer Services . • . . ..•....• Public Water Services ..... . Solid Waste . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... Electricity, Gas, Phone and Cable Television. 33 33 33 35 36 36 36 i 37 37 38 38 39 �-I I I I I I • • •I I I I I v. Recreation •..•••••••••...•.. Recreation Programming . • • • . . •. Recreation Resources . . • . . . .•••. Area-wide Recreational Facilities . . . • •. Recreational Analysis . . . . • .•..... Public Health and Safety . . . • . . . . • . • . Police Department . . . . • • . •.. Fire Department . • • • • •. Other City Services . • . • . . . Medical Facilities • . . . . . •. Area Public Services . • ••.••. Education • • . • • . . . •.. Cultural and Historic Resources Senior Services • • . . • County and State Services 39 39 39 42 44 45 45 45 46 46 46 Land Use and Development Trends • . . . • • Comparison of Land Use, 1962 and 1986 . • • • Land Use Classification . • . . • • . .. Residential Uses • . .•••..•••• Commercial Uses • . . . . . . . •.•• Industrial Uses . . . • ..... . Public and Semi-Public Uses . . . • . . . • . . Parks and Recreation. . • . • • . . •. Development Trends and Future Land Use . . •. 1. Manufacturer's Addition . • . . . . • . 2. Residential Development • • . . • . 3. Neighborhood Shopping ... . 4. City Entrance/Gateway . .. . 5. Central Business District . • • 6. Waterfront/Marine Areas •.. 7. Industrial Expansion . • • • . •.... Cooperation with Pere Marquette Township. 51 51 51 51 54 55 55 56 56 56 57 57 57 58 58 59 59 Epilogue • 47 47 48 49 61 Appendices Appendix A. Funding Resources Local Resources • . • . • . . State and Federal Resources • • . Private Initiatives . • . . . 63 63 63 64 Appendix B. Tables and Figures Table 10 . Table 11 . Table 12 Table 13 . Figure XII 65 66 Appendix C. Community. Survey Form . . . Survey Results • . . . 71 73 67 67 68 69 77 ii �LIST OF TABLES Table II II II 2 3 4 -I 5 6 7 8 9 10 I I I 12 I I I I I I I Population Change, 1940-1980 Mason County, Cities, and Selected Townships . • • Ludington and Mason County Population Changes Compared to Other Cities and Counties in West Michigan ••.•••• Population Projections Ludington and Mason County .••• Comparative Socio-Economic Characteristics Household Income in Ludington by Income Level . • . Occupations of Ludington Residents •••••••• Comparative Housing Characteristics, 1980 • • • • . Recreation Analysis . . . . • • • • . . . . • • • • Land Use in Ludington, 1962 and 1986 • . • • • • . Climatological Summary, 1951-1980 • • . •• Building Permits and Valuation City of Ludington, 1980-1986 • • • • • . • . . • • State Equalized Value City of Ludington, 1980-1986 • • • • ••• Population and Housing Characteristics by Census Block Areas, City of Ludington, 1980 ••••. 1 11 13 19 20 21 23 25 29 43 53 66 67 67 68 LIST OF FIGURES Figure I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X XI XII Location Map • • • • • • • • • • • • . Age-Sex Distribution • • . . . • Mason County Employment Status 1970-1986 Labor Force and Unemployment Mason County Employment by Sector, 1980-1986 • Ludington Employment by Sector, 1980 .•• Census Block Map • • . • . . • • • • • • . • . • • Street Map • • • . . • • . • . • • Recreation Facilities Map . • . • Area-Wide Recreational Facilities Present Land Use Map • . • . • • Future Land Use Map . • • . • . . Pere Marquette Charter Township Future Land Use Plan Map . . • . • I I 19 iii 16 22 24 26 27 31 34 40 41 52 62 69 �I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I CITY OF LUDINGTON 201 S . WILLIAM STREET DEAN M . ANDERSON , MAYOR GERALD J . RICHARDS . CITY MANAGER P . O . BOX 310 GERRY PEHRSON KLAFT . CITY CLERK LUDINGTON. MICHIGAN 49431 PHONE 616 / 845 - 6237 JOHN A . VILLA . TREASURER Motion by Commissioner Martin Page, seconded by Commissioner Bob Shaw, to adopt the new Comprehensive Plan with a request that the City Commission also review the new Plan for adoption. Motion carried unanimously. (June 2, 1987) Motion by Commissioner Ereon, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the Comprehensive Plan, previously adopted by the Ludington Planning Commission, which updates the City of Ludington Master Plan, be adopted. Motion carried. (June 8, 1987) iv �I I 'I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. INTRODUCTION Plans are designed to control change--to stimulate it and to give it direction. Ludington's Comprehensive Plan represents the community's desire to deal with anticipated changes in the city's growth. The plan does not try to draw an ideal map of the future. Rather, it approaches change as a bundle of related processes that must be coordinated to achieve desirable ends. The city has not produced a master plan since 1964. That plan is essentially a map of the ideal city as projected twenty-three years -ago. Many features of that map are impractical and irrelevant today. One feature, however--the site of a municipal marina--is an important reality in the Ludington of 1987. The successful operation of the present marina has in turn become a factor in planning today. Change always generates further change. The ideal city always eludes the planner's grasp. Planning itself becomes one of the processes in the bundle that requires coordination. During the past few years, the people of Ludington have seen several areas of the city where some kind of change--good or bad--seemed imminent. The marina, for example, seemed a potentially destructive force to the residential neighborhood it bordered. A neighborhood plan was formulated and adopted which forestalled undesirable change. The downtown area--the Central Business District--is a great concern to all citizens and especially to downtown businessmen. Certain changes threaten the appearance and functioning of the CBD: the design and construction of buildings, signs, traffic patterns and flow, and building tenancy. In order to direct change in these elements, the City Commission has adopted a plan which the Downtown Development Authority drafted with professional planning assistance. One of Ludington's critical areas is the Pere Marquette Lake waterfront. Traditionally, the waterfront has been devoted to industrial use. Changes in industry and changes in recreational uses of the environment have given the waterfront a completely different significance. The City Commission engaged a professional planner to formulate a plan for the waterfront, and has adopted the resulting plan. Obviously, the people of Ludington recognize that changes are inevitable and that thoughtful, practical planning for change is necessary. A survey of citizen opinion about Ludington conducted by the Planning Commission and the Downtown Development Authority reached a random sample of 465 households. The excellent return rate (43.7 percent) shows great interest in and concern about the future of the city. The following cluster of responses to survey questions deserves thoughtful consideration by anyone planning the city's future: 1 �1. The best thing about living in Ludington is its small-town atmosphere (77.3 percent). 2. Ludington's worst problem is unemployment (86.7 percent). 3. Fire protection is rated "high" rather than "fair" or "poor" (91.67 percent). Less than 6 percent rate city services "poor" (police, water, sewer, snow removal, park maintenance). 4. Parking downtown is "easy" (89.6 percent). 5. Ludington needs more industrial development (92.79 percent). 6. The city should use tax incentives to attract new industry (83.18 percent). The people of Ludington want the city to maintain its atmosphere of a small town on the Lake Michigan shore (73.21 percent like its proximity to the big lake) with good city services and comfortably "easy" living conditions. But at the same time, the great majority of citizens are concerned about the high rate of unemployment. Presumably they would risk giving up the small-town atmosphere in order to increase the city's industrial base. They would even invest tax dollars in this cause. In view of this ambivalence, a plan for Ludington's future must accept one of the following general policies: 1. Preserve the small-town atmosphere at all costs. 2. Pursue a radical change in industrial development and risk losing the small-town atmosphere. 3. Find a compromise position that preserves the valued elements of the small-town atmosphere while it encourages industrial development. The Planning Commission believes that Ludington should adopt the third policy option. This Comprehensive Plan is designed to achieve that goal. I r This plan does not show how Ludington should look in twenty years. Rather, it outlines a series of goals, policies, and implementation techniques to give direction to those charged with overseeing specific plans. These goals and policies are presented first in the plan. Following that section, background material is presented--the context in which the goals and policies are to be considered. Present and future land use maps show graphically_what e~ists, ~nd what should be changed. The plan concludes with a discussion of possibilities for some particular areas in the city. Supporting material in £urther detail may be found in the appendix. Also in the appendix is a copy of the community survey and the tabulated results. 2 I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I �If this plan is to be effective in providing a context for future change in Ludington, it must be kept up to date. It should be amended from time to time as circumstances require, and it should be carefully reviewed in its entirety at no more than five-year intervals. The following plans for particular parts of the city are incorporated into this Comprehensive Plan: Waterfront Master Plan (WBDC, 1986); Central Business District Master Plan (WBDC, 1986); Cartier Park: A Study of Market & Development (Tom Sturr, 1986); and Recreational Development Plan of Ludington (City of Ludington, 1984; and Recreation Plan Update (1986) The Future Land Use Map developed by the Planning Commission supersedes any other maps in any plan, and the Comprehensive Plan supersedes any other plan, in case of conflict or inconsistency. I I I I I I I I I I r I 3 �f I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I J f II. GOALS, POLICIES, AND IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GOAL: To increase the availability of jobs for area residents through actions and policies that promote the expansion of existing industries and businesses and the attraction of new industries and commercial activity to the city. POLICIES IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES A. 1. Insu~e availability of appropriate sites. 2. Cooperate with industrial and business personnel in dealing with potential problems involved with expansion. · 3. Phase out nonconforming residential uses on Dowland Street to provide area for expansion of industries located there. 4. Require screening between industrial/commercial uses and neighboring residential uses on district boundaries or where mixed uses exist. 5. Continue to make use of P.A. 198 to encourage expansion of existing industries as well as attraction of new plants. 1. Capitalize on the strengths of the area, including the high quality of life, and, where applicable, the ferry service, excellent deep port, good rail service, and direct access to US 31 and us 10. 2. Cooperate with Pere Marquette Township in B. Provide opportunities for expansion of existing industrial and commercial activities. Continue efforts to attract new industry to locate in the industrial park through the Economic Development Corporation (EDC), Ludington Economic Development Corporation (LEDCOR), Manistee-Mason Community Growth Alliance (CGA), Chamber of Commerce. 5 �developing contiguous land in the industrial park and surrounding township land. 3. c. D. Exploit the potential for 1. reuse for wholesale or light industry uses of vacant industrial buildings outside the industrial park, particularly on the north side of the city (Manufacturers Addition). Extend Fourth Street into the industrial park. Make road improvements in the north area, e.g., abandon rights-of-way for Delia and Emily Streets between Bryant and Longfellow. 2. Explore relocation of the city garage and heavy equipment storage to this area (Manufacturers Addition). Capture a greater share of 1. Michigan's growing visitor trade through further development of facilities and 2. expanded promotional activities. Expand public and private marina facilities. Promote development of commercial facilities for marina users. 3. Develop off-season events and activities, e.g., cross-country skiing. 4. Develop a convention/ meeting facility appropriate for this area of the state; coordinate with West Shore Community College. 5. Upgrade Cartier Park according to plan to expand services to visitors, as well as recreational opportunities for residents. HOUSING GOAL: To increase the availability and accessibility of housing in the city through policies and actions that protect and enhance the quality of existing residential neighborhoods and promote the development of new housing to serve a variety of needs and preferences. 6 I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I -I I I �I r POLICIES IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES A. 1. Utilize resources from the state to provide incentives for preservation or restoration of historic or architecturally significant dwellings. 2. Continue to participate in available state and federal programs which provide assistance to homeowners for rehabilitation of existing dwellings. 3. Develop a program to disseminate information concerning the minimum standards for housing and maintenance which the city uses; emphasize how these standards apply to existing housing units, particularly multifamily units. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I B. Maintain and rehabilitate existing housing where practicable. Provide opportunities for 1. the construction of a variety of housing types in the city: single-family homes and multi-family units; moderately 2. priced homes and luxury apartments; year-round, seasonal, and retirement homes. f 7 Designate specific areas of the city for future residential use. Promote new design concepts which take advantage of energysaving technology. 3. Encourage construction of additional housing units that meet the particular needs of low- and moderate-income residents and the needs of senior citizens. 4. Encourage multi-family housing in areas with adequate land, convenient commercial areas, and adequate transportation. �C. D. Maintain and/or improve environmental quality. Control traffic flow and parking in residential areas. 5. Control conversion of single-family dwellings to two- or multi-family to insure adequate parking, open space, etc. 6. Plan for appropriate new housing in connection with waterfront and marina development. 1. Continue maintenance and/or replacement of street trees, shrubs, and other natural materials. 2. Control home occupations to prevent development into highly visible commercial uses. 3. Enforce existing land-use controls. 4. Prevent the intrusion of nonresidential uses into predominantly residential areas. 1. Discourage through traffic on local residential streets. 2. Institute parking controls on narrow streets. 3. Control traffic flow resulting from large developments by careful placement of access. CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT/COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT GOAL: To improve the quality, vitality, and value of the Central Business District and other commercial areas through policies and actions which encourage the prov i sion of a desirable mixture of commercial and residential uses, increase employment opportunities, and strengthen the role of downtown Ludington as a provider of services for the entire region. 8 I I I I I I I I I -I I I I I I I I I �f f I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES POLICIES A. B. c. Make the CBD more accessible 1. and attractive for pedestrians. Increase the convenience shoppers. Improve the appearance of the CBD while conserving the unique character and historic ambience. r 9 Develop an entrance sign and compatible uniform directional signs for the CBD and public facilities. 2. Encourage the improvement of the appearance of the rear of all buildings and make use of the rear entrances where they c~n provide access to parking lots. 3. Initiate aesthetic improvements, including landscaping of parking lots, boulevards where appropriate, and street trees, shrubs, and flowers. 4. Provide benches and/or pedestrian rest areas. 1. Improve parking areas to facilitate traffic flow and provide the maximum number of spaces possible. 2. Remove old foundation remnants to provide more efficient parking, particularly off South James Street. 3. Promote convenience/safety improvements, including street and parking lot lighting. 4. Encourage development of mini-malls: inside access between buildings in a block. 1. Promote cooperation between public and private to take maximum advantage available resources. �2. D. E. Provide a wider range of uses and activities in the CBD. Encourage appropriate development in other commercial areas. 10 Develop recommendations concerning storefront improvements. Priority should be given to maintaining the historic quality of buildings where such exists. i I i I 3. Promote the existing loan prografil to stimulate physical improvements to buildings. 4. Develop consistent sign standards which will enhance the appearance and be aimed primarily at pedestrian traffic. 1. Encourage a wider variety of businesses to the downtown in order to expand activities and minimize vacancies. 2. Promote better use of space in some buildings by permitting residential uses on the second and third story levels through rehabilitation. 3. Encourage professional offices. 1. Discourage strip commercial development. 2. Maintain the existing entrance to the city by controlling encroachment of the commercial strip on East Ludington Avenue. I I 3. Cooperate with Pere Marquette Township on boundary areas. 4. Encourage reuse of existing buildings where parking and other requirements are met. I I I I I �f J J 'I I I I I I I I I r r r r r r 5. Encourage development of marina-supporting services around the bayou. 6. Limit neighborhood commercial areas to uses targeted to the immediate area. TRANSPORTATION GOAL: To promote safe and effective movement for all members of the community, whether pedestrians, motorists, passengers, or cyclists. POLICIES IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES A. 1. Provide sidewalks where they are lacking and mandate future sidewalks with new development. 2. Schedule maintenance and replacement of streets a·nd sidewalks in the capital improvement plan. 1. Revise parking near intersections to allow better visibility, particularly on downtown corners without traffic signals. 2. Change Rowe and Harrison to two-way traffic. 3. Regulate parking on narrow streets to one side only. 4. Establish a directional island at Ludington Avenue and Lakeshore Drive. 1. Support advertising campaigns designed to draw from a wider audience. 2. Explore possible new financing to insure continuation. 1. Strengthen local financing commitments to insure consistent funding sources public transportation. B. c. D. Maintain all streets, curbs, and sidewalks in good condition. Improve traffic flow, saftey, and convenience for motorists. Promote continuation of car ferry service. Continue to provide a high level of Dial-A-Ride bus service to insure necessary ti.on to residents. 11 �E. F. Minimize nonresidential traffic and through traffic in residential and recreation areas. Develop nonmotorized facilities. 2. Expand service to include group trips, special event routes, other. 1. Close Lewis Street between Court Street and Ludington Avenue. 2. Develop formal truck routing with appropriate directional signs on Washington, Bryant, _Dowland, and First Street. 1. Request abandonment of Ludington Northern Railway right-of-way to provide a pedestrian/ bicycle path through the city. 2. Develop a walkway connecting downtown with Pere Marquette Lake waterfront area and Lake Michigan beach at Stearns Park. i RECREATIONAL AND CULTURAL SERVICES GOAL: To insure adequate social, cultural, and recreational opportunities for all residents through policies and actions which promote the availability of necessary social and health services, expand cultural and recreational opportunities, and maintain a high level of government services. IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES POLICIES A. Maintain a wide range of 1. recreational opportunities throughout the city through implementation of the city's 2. Recreational Development Plan. 12 Develop standard soccer fields. Increase playground equipment in neighborhood playgrounds. 3. Continue to maintain existing parks and facilities for maximum use. 4. Establish an indoor ice rink. I I I I I I I I �J f f I I I I I I I I I I I I I I B. c. D. 1. Mandate a public walkway along Marquette Lake as the new marina and other waterfront development occurs. 2. Develop the non-campground area of Cartier Park for passive uses such as nature trails, crosscountry skiing, boat launch, and picnic areas. 1. Pursue state coopera t ion in identification of significant buildings. 2. Provide incentives for preservation and rehabilitation of significant historic structures where desirable and practical. Continue to provide a high 1. level of government services to protect the health, safety, and well-being of all residents. Improve public access to the municipal building so all public meetings can be held there, or provide another community meeting facility. Retain and increase public access, including visual, physical, and recreational access to Lake Michigan, Pere Marquette Lake, and Lincoln Lake. Conserve the unique character and historic atmosphere of significant buildings, both residential and commercial. 2. PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT GOAL: To preserve and enhance the physical environment through policies and actions which protect desirable natural features and systems and improve community appearance. POLICIES IMPLEMENTATION TECHNIQUES A. 1. Revise the zoning ordinance as necessary to implement this plan. 2. Develop a Capital Improvement Plan. 3. Develop a uniform city sign design for public and informational signs. Maintain an aesthetically pleasant environment by adopting and enforcing municipal ordinances and land use controls. f r Insure continuation of services to senior citizens by providing secure financial support. 13 �B. C. Develop regulations which provide for orderly development of waterfront property, including docks, piers, filling, etc. Control pollution problems as they become identified. 14 1. Implement the Waterfront Master Plan. 2. Develop a waterfront district zone in the zoning ordinance. 3. Explore participation in the National Flood Insurance Program. 1. Monitor sites where groundwater pollution is suspected, and pursue clean-up where possible. 2. Promote regular testing of private wells now being used for drinking water. �r r r I I I I I I I I I I r r III. COMMUNITY CHARACTERISTICS LOCATION AND SETTING Ludington, the county seat of Mason County, is located on Lake Michigan at the mouth of the Pere Marquette River. It has a population of approximately 9,000, with significant increase in the summer. Ludington enjoys a special relationship with Wisconsin and other port communities because of the Michigan-Wisconsin Transportation Company's cross-lake ferry service and the city's excellent harbor facilities. Other transportation routes include the north/south highway US 31, the east/west highway US 10, and the CSX railroad. Ludington's lakeshore and natural resources have attracted development since Michigan's early days. The first immigrants arrived in the late 1840's, and the timber industry developed soon after, with as many as 17 sawmills on the shores of Pere Marquette Lake at one time. Railroads were built, and wood products were shipped by both rail and water. When the lumber industry declined, brine became the primary resource and that has continued to the present day. The earliest settlers planted fruit trees, and the county's orchard and farming industries began to develop. NATURAL RESOURCES The area's natural resources will continue to be a major factor in determining Ludington's future, by influencing the quality of life as well as by providing opportunity for economic development. Geology, Topography, and Soils When Lake Michigan receded to its present general limit many hundred years ago, there remained a layer of glacial drift materials up to several hundred feet in depth with no outcroppings of bedrock. The soils in Ludington and surrounding areas are consequently mainly sandy with alluvial sands found adjacent to the Pere Marquette and Lincoln Rivers. Dune sands predominate in the city. These have slight to moderate limitations for building, depending on slope. The alluvial soils, on the other hand, can pose severe limitations on development due to flooding, ponding, and frost action. The present topography is generally flat, although this is the result of considerable cutting of hills and filling of gulleys since the days of the earliest settlers. The elevation of the city is approximately 590' Mean Sea Level (MSL), with a range of just below that to 640' in the fourth ward. Greater changes in elevation are found outside the city, to the north in Epworth Heights and the sand dune area of Ludington State Park, and to the south in Pere Marquette Township. Lowland areas are along the Pere Marquette River and the shore of Pere Marquette Lake. 15 / �FIGURE l Location Map CAN A DA WISCONSIN "' ~ <f I ..J II Mll..WAUl<l!:1!: ILL/NO/S • GAAV INOIANA 16 OHIO • • • �r r r r r I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Lakes and Rivers Ludington and the surrounding area have significant water resources. Mason County has 32 miles of Lake Michigan shoreline; Ludington shares 1.7 miles of this with over 40 percent accessible to the public. Lincoln Lake and Lincoln River divide the city on the north from Hamlin Township. Pere Marquette Lake provides the sheltered harbor for the Port of Ludington. Pere Marquette Lake offers both recreational and commercial facilities. At least eight public and private marinas are located on or adjacent to the lake. Several dozen charter fishing operations are located there as well. Michigan-Wisconsin Transportation Company, Dow Chemical Company, and Sand Products Corporation regularly use the commercial port facilities. The Port Development Study (Williams and Works, 1982) contains detailed information. The Lake Michigan water level has been rising, and is currently at a record high. The historic seasonal fluctuations of about 1.2 feet (with a low in February and a high in July) appear not to be moving according to schedule. Furthermore, fluctuation extremes keep moving up--the low doesn't reach the lows of preceding years and the highs keep getting higher. This trend is expected to continue for the next few years at least, and the potential for flood damage thus appears to be changing. Historical information suggests that there has never been a serious flood hazard in the city. Ludington received a floodplain map in 1975. In 1977, the city declined to participate in the National Flood Insurance Program, presumably on the basis of historical evidence that no real hazard e·xisted. However, with the current high lake level, and consequently high groundwater level exacerbated by unusually heavy rainfall in September 1986, a number of problems have been created. There have been flooding problems--both residences and businesses--after heavy rains. In addition, charter fishing boats located east of Washington Avenue on the bayou have not been able to get under the bridge at times because of high water. The National Flood Insurance Program was created to provide insurance at more reasonable rates than otherwise available. The city's participation in this program would make it possible for residents to qualify for this insurance. It would also require the city to adopt flood hazard regulations designed to prevent future losses. Potential erosion problems along Lake Michigan and Pere Marquette Lake shores continue. The city has taken measures to correct or prevent erosion on city property, princ i pally around the marina and Loomis Street boat launch site. 17 �Groundwater Quality All residences in the city have access to city water. There is an unidentified number of residents who prefer to use private wells for drinking water. Concern has been expressed about potential polluted groundwater and soils in some areas of the city, for example, at the site of a former plating plant in Manufacturers Addition. Michigan Department of Natural Resources is currently monitoring this site, and there may be others, such as former dumping sites, that could present problems. Establishing responsibility for cleanup is the main hurdle in dealing with these problems; that - process itself has proven to be both protracted and confused. Climate Ludington's climate is modified by Lake Michigan. Spring and early summer temperatures tend to be cooler than would be expected for this latitude. Frost and initial snow periods in the fall are delayed as well. Ludington experiences fewer prolonged periods of hot, humid weather or extreme cold. The difference between the average summer and average winter temperatures is about 51 F. Snowfall is slightly higher than inland averages in Mason County. Table 10 in the appendix summarizes the climate data from 1951 to 1980. POPULATION Ludington's population has remained fairly stable since 1970 at around 9,000. This is based on an estimate of current population which is sl~ghtly higher than the 1980 census figure. (See Waterfront Master Plan). In contrast, the surrounding townships and the county have shown increases in the same period. Table 1 shows the details. A 1983 survey of Pere Marquette residents indicated that 33 percent had moved from the city to the township. Census information for the surrounding townships, although less specific, seems to confirm this trend. The same thing has been happening in other West Michigan cities and counties as can be seen in Table 2. Population Projections Population projections are rough estimates only, and can vary a great deal. The West Michigan Regional Planning Commission (WMRPC) has estimated that the population of the city will increase by 10.2 percent by 1990 and another 11.7 percent by 2000. Donnelley and Associates, a private industrial rating · organization, projects a decrease of 11 percent in the population of the county for 1990. Federal government figures show a 10-year annualized decrease of about 3.5 percent. 18 �TABLE 1 Population Change, 1940-1980 Mason County, Cities, and Selected Townships f r I I I r 1940 1950 Percent Change 1940-1950 19,378 20,474 + 5.7 21,929 + 7. I 8,701 I, 162 9,506 I, 141 - + 9.3 I. 7 9,421 1,245 .9 + 9.0 - 9,021 I ,202 - 4.2 - 3.5 8,937 I ,241 - .9 + 3.2 833 584 777 804 887 930 1,032 739 + 6.5 +59.2 +32.8 - 8.1 1,060 1,468 1,513 780 +19.5 +57.8 +46.4 + 5.5 1,278 I, 778 I ,846 863 +20.6 +21. I +22.0 +10.6 I ,556 2,616 2,068 I, 170 +21 .8 +47. I +12.0 +35.6 Governmental Unit Mason County Ludington Scottvi I le Townships Amber Haml In Pere Marquette Victory SOURCE: 1960 Percent Change 1950-1960 1970 Percent Change 1960-1970 1980 Percent Change 1970-1980 22,612 + 3. I 26,365 +16.6 U.S. Census. I I TABLE 2 Ludington and Mason County Population Changes Compared to Other Cities and Counties in West Michigan 1960 1980 1970 I I I I f r f J Governmental Unit Population Population 9,421 8,324 I, 146 11,066 6,149 9,021 7,723 I, 154 I I ,844 6,471 21,929 19,042 16,547 98,719 48,395 22,612 20,393 17,984 128,181 56,173 Percent Change 1960-1970 Population Percent Change 1970-1980 4.2 7-2 .7 7.0 5.2 8,937 7,566 I ,424 11,763 5,943 .9 - 2.0 +23.4 - .7 - 8 .2 + 3. I + 7. I + 8.7 +29.8 +16.1 26,365 23,019 22,002 157,174 66,814 +16.6 +12.9 +22.3 +22.6 +18. 9 CITY Ludington Manistee Pentwater Grand Haven South Haven + + + - COUNTY Mason Manistee Oceana Ottawa VanBuren SOURCE: U.S. Census, 1980. 19 �What is the explanation for this wide disparity? The last two estimates are based on traditional population, birth/death, and migration rates. WMRPC added employment and housing trends, which are more optimistic. New housing starts since 1980, suggest some growth. When average household sizes are combined with the number of new dwelling units, the figures suggest that an additional 300 people may have moved into the city. If economic activity continues to increase, that will have an effect on the population total as well. (Michigan Department of Management and Budget projects a 17.6 percent increase in economic growth in Mason County from 1980 to 2000.) The small percentage increases in population shown in Table 3 still do not contradict the perception of a stable population. TABLE 3 Population Projections Ludington and Mason County 1980 Ludington Mason County SOURCE: 8,937 26,365 Percent Change 1970-1980 - .9 16.6 1990 Estimate 8,990 28,300 Percent Change 1980-1990 2000 Estimate Percent Change 1980-2000 .5 7-3 9,170 31,100 3.8 17.6 U.S. Census, 1980; Mason County Projections, Michigan Department of Management and Budget; Ludington Projections, West Michigan Regional Planning Commission, 1986. Seasonal Variations Ludington and Mason County have significant seasonal fluctuations in population. Michigan Department of Natural Resources estimates the seasonally adjusted figure for Ludington's 1980 census population to be 9,259, or about 4 percent over the actual population. For Mason County, the adjustment factor is 35 percent or 35,593 people. This includes Epworth Heights, which reports a seasonal population increase of as many as 4,000 over the summer months. (See Mason Coun t y Solid Waste Plan, 1986, and RERC report in WBDC Waterfront Master Plan.) Population Characteristics The 1980 census provides a great deal of information about population characteristics. For example, only 2.5 percent of Ludington's population is minority (.5 percent black, 1.5 percent Spanish, .5 percent other including Korean and Native American). 20 I I • •~ -~ -~ - ~ ~ ~ �r r r r r I Ninety-six percent speak only English at home. Seventy-nine percent were born in Michigan, 1.9 percent were born in other countries, and the remainder in other areas of the United States. More than half had lived in the same home for the previous five years (52.6 percent), 28 percent had lived in the county five years before, and only 6 percent had lived out of the state or abroad in 1975. These latter figures emphasize the stability of Ludington's population. Table 4 compares education, residence, and income characteristics of Ludington's residents with the residents of Manistee, Mason and Manistee Counties, and other areas in 1980. Almost 66 percent of Ludington residents over 25 years of age were high school graduates; 17.5 percent didn't go to high school. Fourteen percent had some college education and 11 percent had graduated from a four-year college or had taken post-graduate work. TABLE 4 Comparative Socio-Economic Characteristics I I I I f ' f I f f r Education 1975 Residence Birth Place 1980 Median Income Percent Same Residence 1980 Percent Different Residence Same County 1980 Percent Born In Michigan Household Percent Faml I !es Below Povert y Level Percent High School Graduate Percent College Graduate Ludington 65.7 II .O 53 28 79 $13,415 $16,839 9.0 Mason County 66.1 10.0 58 23 81 14,410 16,824 9.5 Manistee Manistee County 64.8 62.2 II .o 9.1 63 65 26 19 86 84 13,789 14,351 18,502 17,281 7.2 8.2 Communities Out2 side Urban Areas 69.3 13.4 52 27 77 16,163 19,476 1.2 Michigan 69.0 14.3 56 26 72 19,223 22,197 8.2 Governmental Unit Faml ly "Family" does not include single-person households. 2 SOURCE: Places of 2,500 to 10,000 population outside of urbanized areas. U.S. Census, 1980. Age-sex distributions are important considerations in planning for housing, recreation, senior citizen needs, schools, etc. Figure II shows age-sex distributions graphically for Ludington, 21 I �FIGURE II Age-Sex Distribution LUDINGTON . 1980 - KAI.! FEMALE [ I [ [ I [( I [ [ [ I I 7 5 PLUS )) JJ I )I II I )I ]] )I] ]] )I Jl]) JJ ] ]] ll II I I I (I 70 TO 7 4 l)) JJ J )J JJ]] l 2.8% 2.01 2.41 2.5. 2.6% 2.6% ([([((([((( 65 TO [ I( I I [II I( I 60 TO [ [ I( [ [ II 111 [ 55 TO I [ [ [ I I [ I [ [ [ [ 50 TO [II I [ [ I I I I 45 TO [(l((ll[l( 40 TO ([ll([I((([ 35 TO I I [ I [ I (I [ I [ I [ I 30 TO I I I I I I I I I I I I [I I I I 25 TO [ I ( l [ I [ I l I I I I I I I I I 20 TO [ [ [ I [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ 15 TO [ I [ [II [ [ [II I [ I [ I 10 TO 1([[[11111111([ 5 TO [[[[[[[[[[([[I[ 0 TO 2.1% 2.2. 2.41 3.01 "3.8% 3.9% 3.8% 3.6% 3.21 3.21 69]]]]])]])]]]])] 64 ll l])]] ]) ]] ll l 59]]]])]]])))))] 54 JJJJ ll Jl JJ ll 49 11 JJ I)] 1l 44)]]]]]]11111 39]]])]])))1 3411111111111 ll 29 1111)I1II1111J1111 24 I 1111 I I 11 I I I I I I J I I 11 I 19 11!]IIIJI11111111111 14 11 J Jl ll l l ll Ill JI 9))))))11))))))] 4 lJlJ))JllllJlJJI 6.3% 2.8% 3.2% 3.0% 3.0% 2.7% 2.0% 2.6% 2.3% 2.8% 4.0% 4.5% ,•• 3% 3.4% 3.4% 3.6% • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • AGE GROUPS • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • MASON COUNTY - 1980 FEMALE MALE 2. 3% 1.8% 2.41 2. 6% 2.6% 2. 6% 2.3% 2. 6% 2.8% 3.51 3. 9% 3 • 9I 4. 5I 4.0x 3.6% 3. 6% I [ I I [ I I I I I[ ll l ( 7 5 11((1[((([(70 [([[[[(([[(([[(( 65 [ I I [ I I I I I [II I I I I I 60 ([([[[[[[1[[[([([55 I I I [ I I I ! I!! ! I I! I! 50 I [ [ [!I I I [ [ [ I [ [ I 45 [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ { 40 [I! I [II! [ I [ I [ [ I [ I [ I 35 [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[([[[[[[ 30 [ I [( [ I [ [ [ [ [ [ I [ [ I [ I( [ [ [ [ [ I 25 [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ I [ ( [ [ [ [ [ [ I [ [ [ I( I I 20 l I ([ [ I I [ (IC! I CI I [ I ([ I [II I I I I (I 15 CI I I [ I [II I I I I I [II I [II I I I I I I 10 [[[[[[[[[[[([[[[[([[[[[{ 5 I [ [ [ [ [ I ( [ {[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ I ( [ I o PLUS TO 74 TO 69 TO 64 TO 59 J J )) ll 11 11 Jl 1 111 11 I 11 111 1 lJ])ll])lJ]lJ lJ]))])JlllJ]lJJ] 1 I 1 I 1111 1111 1111 l 11 lJlJ]lJlllJ]l]])l]lJ TO 54 TO 49 TO 44 TO 39 TO 34 TO 29 TO 24 TO 19 TO 14 TO 9 TO 4 1111111II111111 111111111 ] 11)]) II l ll ll ll ll ll 1111111 lJlJ]ll]lllJJ]]]]]lJl 11 Jl 11 lJ lJ J 11 11lJ1111 lJ)) ll Jll Jll J ll 111 J11111 11 l 11 1 111111111 J 11 11 11111111 ll ll 111 1111111 ll l 1 )I 1 I )I 1)I11I111 lJllll))]]lJll]]]]lJ])] 1111))]] 111 ll 1 ll 11 l ll J 11 ll l 1ll JJ 1ll 1lJ I lJ 3.8% 2.0% 2.6% 2.9% 3.0% 2.7% 2.2% 2.6% 2.8% 3.2% 3.8% 4.0% 4.4% 3.91 3.5% 3.6% •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• AGE GROUPS ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• MICHIGAN l. 2I 0.9% 1.4I l. 7% 2.4% 2. 21 2.0% 2.5% 2.6% 3.3% 3.8% 4.21 4.3% 3.9% 3. 5% J. 3% - 1980 FEMALE MALE [ [ [ [ [ [ ([ ([[[[[ [ [ [( [ [ [ [ [ [[[[I I [[ [[I [ [[[[[[[([[[[[[[[ [[ [ [ [ [ [ [[ [ [ [ [ ([ ([[[[[[{[[[([[ [([[[{[[(((([([[[ l!!lllllllllll[!ll [[[[([[[[[([[[[[[[[[[I [[[(([[[[[[[[[([[[[[([[[[[ [I [ ( ( I [ [ [ [[ [ [ [ ( [ [ [ [ [ [ { I ( [ [ [ [ [ [[([([([[[[[([[[((([[[([[[[[(( ([{[[[({[[[[[([[[[[([([[[[{ I [ [ ( [ [ I [ [ [ [ I ( ( [ ( ( ([ [ [ [ [ [ ( [ [ [ [ [ [ ( [ [ ( [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ ! [I [ 7 5 PLUS ll I lJ l 11 l l l I I I 70TO74111)]]])] 65 TO 69 111 I Ill )Ill 60 TO 64 ll l ll l ll l ll ll 55 TO 59 ]]JlJ]lJ]lJ]]Jl] 50 TO 54 1111] ] ] ]] ] ] ]] 11 J 45 TO 49 ]l]]]]l]]Jl]]lJ 40 TO 44 lllllllllll1111 35 TO 39 llllllllllllllllll 30 TO 34 lJlJlJ]lJ]l]]]]Jl]Jl]J] 25 TO 29 ]lJ])]J]J]]lJ]l]]]])J]]]]J 20 TO 24 1111lJl111111 l 1 Jl ll ll l J ll ll J J 15 TO 19 lJ]J]JJ]])]]J])]]])]))]Jl]JJ] 10 TO 14 ]]JJ]J]]J]lJJ])]]]J]]]J)] 5 TO 9 l 111 ll Ill Jl 1111 JI 1 ll]] 1 o TO 4 11 ll l l ll 1I l I ll I 11 Jl l 1l • • • • • • • • • • • • • •••••••••• , ••• ,, . AGE GROUPS • • • • • • • • • • • • ••• • •••• , •••••••• SOURCE: U.S. Census, 1980 22 2.1% 1.3% 1.6% 2.0% 2.3% 2.3% 2.2% 2.2% 2.7% 3.4% 3.8% 4.3% 4.2% 3.7% 3.3% 3.2% �r r r r r I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Mason County, an6 Michigan. Twenty-five percent of Ludington's population is 60 or over, compared with 12.2 percent in the state. As could be expected, a high proportion of these older residents are women. Mason County's percentage who are 60 or older is 20.4. Another way of illustrating this, though not so dramatic, is to compare the median age of Ludington residents (34.6 years) with Mason County (32.3) and Michigan (28.8). Table 5 shows the income range in Ludington with the number and percentage of households in each classification. Percentages are estimated for 1984 and 1990. The median household income in 1980 was $13,415; median family income was $16,839. "Family income" counts _only family households; "household income" includes single-person households as well as families. TABLE 5 Household Income in Ludington by Income Level Estimated Actual 1984 1990 Percent of Total Percent of Total Percent of Total 28. I 22.8 9.4 18.3 26.6 12.7 4.1 .4 .4 7.3 14.6 32-4 16.9 4.9 .7 .4 16.9 5.4 10.9 32.0 25.5 7.4 I .o .7 1980 Income Level s 0 - S 7,499 7,500 10,000 15,000 25,000 35,000 50,000 75,000+ 9,999 14,999 24,999 34,999 49,999 74,999 Number 1,035 347 673 980 469 151 14 15 * Household Income Includes single-person households. SOURCE: Donnelley Demographic Associates, 1985. ECONOMY Ludington's economy is still tied to its natural resources. The chemical industry developed from the brine deposits; transportation is tied to the natural harbor; and the tourist industry is linked to the wide range of natural amenities which the area offers. However, changes in state and national--even international--markets have begun to have a negative impact on Ludington's economy. Manufacturing firms have clo~ed, or slowed 23 �significantly because their products are no longer in demand. Shipping on the Great Lakes continues to decline, decreasing Ludington's importance as a port. Employment Much of the statistical information on employment is available only at the county level. Michigan Employment Security Commission (MESC), the primary source for this information, has used a formula to estimate a city's share of the county's employment. In 1985, MESC "adjusted" that formula, then recalculated 1985 figures. So it is possible to have two sets of figur~s for 1985--one using the old formula, and one using the new; figures derived using the new formula cannot be reasonably compared to those of previous years. Figure III shows numbers employed and unemployed and unemployment rates for Ludington and Mason County from 1970 to the present. MESC suggests that it is appropriate to expect that the unemployment rate will be a little lower in the city than in the county. FIGURE III Mason County Employment Status 1970-1986 Labor Force and Unemployment (Annual Average) Thousands 14 , - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - , 12 10 8 - --- - -- -- ---- - - ····---···---·- ·-·· - - - - ·-- - -·· - ·- -·- -· - - --· .. - - - - - - - ·- - · - - ··- - -· - 6 - ---- - ·-- -· - ·--· - ·- -·- ·- ·--·---- - -- ·-·--- - -· - 4 ·-··- - -· - .- ·-· --·· -- .- - - .. ·-- --··- --·-··- -- ·-· -. --•·- ·- ·- -. - ·-··· -····- - - -·· - - -·- -· ·-·• ... .. - - - - -. -·· -- ·- - · 2 -·· -- -· - .. -- - - ··-·-·· ·--···- ·-·· -- - - ------·- -··- ·- --·-·-·- - ·- - ---·--- -·--· - ~ -· - . . -- - - - -- -·-·-·-- -· - - · -- 0'---'-----'----'---'----'----'--~-......__ __.__......__......__......__..___..___.,___.,___.__. 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 78 77 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 · year Source: MESC, 1986 Labor Force -+- Unemployment Seasonal fluctuation in .employment is a significant factor in the county, reflecting the impacts of the agricultural industry and tourist activity. Employment is generally highest in August and 24 ~ - ~ • • �r r r I I I I I I I I I I I I I lowest in February and March. In 1986, the unemployment rate in the county ranged from a low of 10.4 to a high of 19.6. Workforce "Workforce" identifies how Ludington residents are employed, and adds another dimension to employment statistics. Table 6 shows 1980 census information about employed residents over 16 years of age. The two largest classifications of workers were production personnel and professional/administrative personnel; sales and service were each about half that of these two classifications. This is ordinarily considered to be a well-balanced distribution. However, this apparent balance depends to large extent on two major employers (over 300) in separate sectors: · Dow Chemical Company in the industrial sector, and Memorial Medical Center in the service secto~. One other major employer in Ludington, other than the school d~strict and county government, is Great Lakes Castings (over 100). Firms with 50-100 employees are Brill Manufacturing Company, LDI, Inc., Metalworks, Inc., Atkinson Manufacturing Company, Whitehall Industries, and Kaines Manufacturing Company (EDC, February 1987). TABLE 6 Occupations of Ludington Residents Occupational Classification Managerial/Executive Professional Technical Sales Administrative Support Services Precision Production Machine Operators Transportation Other Labor Others TOTAL SOURCE: U.S. Census, 1980. 25 I Number Percent 264 417 82 397 527 419 470 466 207 191 7.7 12.l 2.4 11.5 15.3 12.2 13.6 13.5 6.0 5.5 4 .1 3,444 99.9 �FIGURE IV Mason County Employment by Sector 1980-1986 T·:..:.ho:.u:.:s:.::a:_n..:d.:.s_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7 ,o~ -- 8 •·. .. ·••· .. . ... ···•· .. ... ...... ... ··- ..... ···- ··••· ... _··- _... -··· ·- -·- ·•-· ..... .... 4 2 0 1980 - 1981 Total Emp. 1983 1982 ~ Year I/-':,,'' ! Manuf. 1984 1985 Nonmanuf . m 1986 Govt . Source: MESC, 1986 Economic Activity by Sector As employment trends show, manufacturing activity in Mason County has decreased. Employment in the nondurable sector has increased in actual numbers, although not enough to make up for the sharp declines in durable manufacturing. According to 1982 figures, wholesale trade activity in Ludington was growing while retail trade activity was declining. A number of smaller establishments had closed, with larger retailers taking up the slack. This trend was occurring in surrounding counties as well. More recently, the downtown area in particular has experienced considerable turnover in retail establishments. Figures IV and v show employment by sector in Mason County and Ludington. The growth in service industries indicated in the 1982 figures reflected a diversifying economy: a movement away from manufacturing, and stable growth in the tourist and recreation areas. Census information indicated that recreation/amusement and health services were showing the most significant growth. 26 -ll ll ll ll II II ~ II �I I I I I I I I r r r r r r r FIGURE V Ludington Employment by Sector, 1980 Government 19.1% Durable Manuf. 20.1% Retail Trade 17.5% Wholes. Trade 2.6% Fin/Insur /Real Es 3.996 Construction 4. 7% Services 12. 2% Nondur. Manuf. 12.1% U. S. Census, 1980 Construction Activity Construction activity is a final criterion to consider in reviewing the city's economy. Construction activity accounts for about 4 percent of the county's labor force, down by almost 25 percent from 1980, the highest and most recent construction boom period. Table 11 in the appendix shows the number and value of building permits issued in Ludington from 1980 to 1986. Footnotes to the table identify major construction projects in this seven-year period; although these projects in themselves have had significant impact on the economy, it is not possible to discern any real trends. However, there appears to be an upswing in the last two years in nonresidential additions, reflecting several recent industrial expansions. State Equalized Value (SEV) provides an indication of the impact of construction activity. Table 12 in the Appendix shows SEV for Ludington from 19880 to 1986. The figures seem to show an increase in dollars (almost 33 percent). However, in terms of constant dollars which take inflation into consideration, there is a decrease of about 3 percent from 1980 to 1984. Since 1984, SEV has kept pace with, and even exceeded slightly, the annual inflation levels. r r Trans & Util. 7.5% 27 �Regional Economy Mason, Lake, and Manistee counties have faced a long period of high unemployment, an actual decline in the number of jobs, and stagnant income growth. For the past several years, the area's unemployment rate has been over 1.5 times the national average. The area lost jobs in all three major nonagricultural employment categories: manufacturing, nonmanufacturing, and government. Although the three-county area has not experienced a single major crisis, it is suffering serious economic adjustment problems resulting from severe changes in economic conditions. Economic Development Activity Ludington is actively pursuing industrial expansion. The city developed the industrial park (a State of Michigan Certified Industrial Park) located in the southeast portion of the city in 1974. The park has access to US 31 off First and Sixth Streets and has full utility services. The industrial park has attracted several new industries and is showing strong promise. It is estimated that the park has about five years' supply of industrial land at the present development rate. Significant efforts are being made to locate other industries in thi~ area by Mason County Economic Development Corporation (EDC), a financial packaging agency for development in the county; Ludington Area Economic Development Corporation (LEDCOR), a marketing and promotional agency which facilitates development; Mason-Manistee Community Growth Alliance (CGA), an agency which coordinates development activities in the two counties and facilitates communication with the Michigan Department of Commerce; Downtown Development Authority (ODA); Chamber of Commerce; and others. Approximately 125-130 new jobs have been created in the city since 1984. Slightly more than half of these are in new industries, the balance were created by expansion of existing industries. Research for the Waterfront Master Plan reports limited potential for expanding general retail activity. However, a market is identified for some harbor-oriented retail uses, including eating and drinking establishments, which do not compete with downtown businesses. That report also points out that recreational boating is currently the fastest growing activity in western Michigan. Expansion of marina facilities would help to meet what appears to be an almost inexhaustible demand, and would likely generate demand for other facilities: hotel/motel, restaurants, service outlets for boats, etc. Tourism and recreation have strong potential for Ludington. The natural resources of the lakes, harbor, nearby state park and forest lands, as well as extension of the US 31 freeway will continue to draw visitor activity. The ferry brings a 28 I I • • • • • • • • • • • • •~ �r I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I significant number of visitors to the city who are important to the motel operators as well as other retailers. Although the future of the cross-lake ferry service is not settled, expanded marina facilities could serve to create demands for overnight accommodations as well as other services. RERC also suggests that potential exists for a convention/meeting center. Such a center, particularly if tied to West Shore Community College activities could generate off-season activity as well. Although much general retail activity has moved to the strip commercial areas outside of the city, a concerted effort to revitalize the downtown and develop the waterfront area may be able to turn that around. Both the downtown and the waterfront areas can provide unique opportunities for development. NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTERISTICS Ludington is a mature community. Half of its housing stock is at least 40 years old and most of the residential areas of the city are developed. Comparative Housing Characteristics As Table 7 shows, Ludington has a much older housing stock than the county or the state, and its value is a little less, primarily because of age. The city also has a higher percentage of renter-occupied units. The city's vacancy rate is much lower than the county's or the state's. The county's high rate includes a number of seasonal homes which were generally vacant when the 1980 census was taken in April. TABLE 7 Comparative Housing Characteristics, 1980 Ludington Pere Marquette Township Mason County Michigan 3,821 777 13,228 3,589,912 3,576 6.4 2,303 64.4 1,273 35.6 718 7.6 648 90.2 70 9.8 9,693 26. 7 7,601 78.4 2,092 21 .6 3,195,213 II .O 2,321,883 72.7 873,330 27.3 Median Value, Owner-Occupied $28,700 $42,900 S29,900 S39,000 Median Rent, Renter-Occupied s s s s Characteristic TOTAL HOUSING UNITS Occupied Units Percent Vacant Owner-Occupied Percent Owner-Occupied Renter-Occupied Percent Renter-Occupied 153 141 152 197 Year Structure Sulit Percent 1970-1980 Percent 1939 or before II. 7 55.9 31 .4 18.5 23.1 39.0 22.1 27.6 Percent Lacking Complete Plumbing 2.0 N/A 3.2 1.8 SOURCE: U.S. Census of Housing, 1980 29 �Census Block Characteristics The 1980 census divided the city into 13 "block numbering areas." Since these areas do not conform to any "neighborhood" divisions in the conventional sense, they will be referred to here simply as "census areas." Figure VI shows the lines drawn in this census process. Area 13 was designated "institutional" and apparently included the Coast Guard station and perhaps persons on boats in the harbor. (See Table 13 in the appendix for complete statistics for each area.) Unlike larger urban areas, specific identifiable neighborhoods have not generally been recognized in the city. Most "neighborhoods" tend either to be around an elementary school or conform to city ward boundaries. But even these are very arbitrary. The census areas seem to be the most useful units to describe the community's characteristics. Area #3 is the most populated, with 16 percent of the city's total; it also has the largest number of children, with 15 percent of the city's under 18-year-olds. Census areas #10 and #11 also have high numbers under 18 years, with 13 percent each of the city's population. These three areas together have 41 percent of the city's population under 18 years. Conversely, areas #6 and #7 have the highest numbers of senior citizens--36 percent of those over 65 years of age in the city (Longfellow Towers is in area #6). Renter-occupied housing is highest in #6, 21 percent of the city's total. Census area #1 shows the highest value for owner-occupied homes, and the lowest vacancy rate. This area, particularly north of Tinkham, is the most recently developed area of the city with the newest housing. Census area #8 has the lowest housing values and next to the lowest market rental values. It also has the highest rental occupancy rates and vacancy rates. This area is intermixed with commercial and industrial uses. Areas #3 and #9 have the highest proportion of overcrowding; #6, #9, and #10 have the highest proportion of units lacking complete plumbing facilities. The age of most housing in the city suggests the need for careful attention to maintenance and rehabilitation; the disprcportionate number of senior citizens raises questions about the need for specialized housing and/or special programs for low-cost rehabilitation and maintenance. Questions about housing on the community survey elicited responses indicating interest in low-income housing (40 percent of those who felt new housing was needed suggested low-income housing; 30 percent favored housing for senior citizens). Almost 25 percent of those responding indicated interest in conventional single-family housing. 30 ■ ■ i i • • • • • �I I I I FIGURE VI Census Block Map l lM:Ot N l ,(IC£ CITY OF LUDINGTON MASTER I I =- PLAN UPDATE z < ~ ... a: .,,r r I I I I I r r r r r "t,. .,._ f"\ G ® s:::. <"I ~ G C) ):,. ~ ... 0 z < ~ X ~~ r r r NOTE: 31 Not to scale. �I I I I I I I I I I I r r r r r r r r IV. COMMUNITY FACILITIES TRANSPORTATION The transportation system includes in addition to the road system, rail, air, lake, and public transportation. Roads and Streets There are three state/federal highways giving access to Ludington. US 10 is the primary entrance to the city from the junction with US 31, which is east of the city in Pere Marquette Township. M-116 extends north from Ludington Avenue along Lakeshore Drive and terminates at Ludington State Park about four miles north. US 10 ends at the Michigan-Wisconsin Transportation Company's crosslake ferry dock. Plans are underway to expand US 10 to five lanes between Ludington and Scottville, in conjunction with the extension of the US 31 freeway through Mason County. The new freeway will provide two exits into Ludington, one along the existing US 31, and the other at US 10 about five miles east of the city or three miles east of the present junction. The completion of this segment of the freeway will have a favorable impact on the city and county by making access from the south easier. At the same time, i t will provide impetus for development outside the city along the freeway. Other entrances to the city are First and Sixth Streets, off US 31--the primary access to the Industrial Park; and Bryant Street and Tinkham Avenue off Jebavy Drive from the north. Ludington's street system is primarily a grid system, with public alleys through many blocks. Local roads are generally in good shape. The city maintains only a small amount of unpaved roadway: Delia south of Longfellow to the railroad tracks, Lavinia between Bryant and Longfellow, Lowell between Rowe and Lavinia, and one block each of Sherman and Seventh from their intersection. The city recently completed a major $1 million-plus reconstruction/paving project which brought almost the entire street system up to current standards. The local system can be classified into the following general categories: (See Figure VII for illustration.) 1. State trunklines: Previously described. 2. Major streets: Facilitate traffic flow in the area and connect local streets to state trunklines. Major street designation is important for identification of truck routes, and location of traffic-producing uses such as multi-family housing and a variety of commercial enterprises. Major streets include all of Washington Avenue, Madison, Tinkham, Bryant, and Sixth Street; most of Rowe, Harrison, Rath, and 33 �FIGURE VII Street Map 8. LINCOLN LAKE = GIi Q ~.,,~,===:II □i jl Mjiiil~---,.;::□ ==; I' .~ ,.... I r-- 1 -7 =G ~ LEGEND - - - - - - County Line _ _ _ _ _ Corporate Limits STREET SYSTEMS - - - - State Trunkline ■ ■ ■ • County Primary aazzazzzzzzz County Local - - - - Major Street Local Street 11 I I 111111111 Adjoining City or Village Street ® City Offices - ~ ======== 34 I N "~ 1--~=-I �I I I I I I I I I I I I I I r r r r f Dowland; and sections of several other streets in the central part of the city. 3. Local streets: to residences. All other streets, primarily affording access The city maintains several one-way streets, originally designated as such to facilitate traffic flow. Traffic patterns have changed in some instances, suggesting re-evaluation. For example, there is less traffic to and from what was formerly a highly industrialized area on the north side of the city. Rowe and Harrison Streets are not required to carry the traffic they once did. Closing of block-long sections of two streets has been discussed from time to time. Presently, Foster Street between Lavinia and Emily is closed on school days because it runs between Foster School and the playground. Barricades are put up by school personnel, and this solution seems acceptable. Lewis Street, between Ludington Avenue and Court Street is closed temporarily for special events in the City Park. Since the street divides the park and the band shell, permanent closing could have some advantages. Ludington Avenue dead-ends at the lake just beyond the intersection with Lakeshore Drive (M-116). The corner is confusing for visitors because directional signs are not clear. There is adequate space for an island which could include signs indicating Stearns Park, Loomis Street boat launch, parking, etc. Except for the bicycle lane on M-116 north of Lowell, the city has no designated bicycle routes. Rail Transportation The Chesapeake and Ohio (C&O, now CSX) system terminates in Ludington and has connections via the Michigan-Wisconsin Transportation Company (MWT) ferry to Wisconsin. The Chessie System has links in Saginaw and Grand Rapids where it can make connections to locations throughout the country and Canada. There is daily service into and out of Ludington, most coming in on the main CSX line to the harbor. The biggest users are Dow Chemical, Harbison-Walker (in Pere Marquette Township), and MWT, although several smaller businesses utilize rail service on a regular basis. There is also service along a portion of the Ludington & Northern line for industries in the Washington/Tinkham area. The materials being transported are primarily bulk products. The rail activity is very stable and relatively significant for a community the size of Ludington. In 1985, more than 14,000 carloads were shipped out of or into Ludington. 35 �Lake Transportation The Port of Ludington is the most active Michigan port on lower Lake Michigan, but use is decreasing, reflecting the decline in all Great Lakes shipping. In 1982, 1.9 million short tons went through the port, compared to Muskegon (1.2), Manistee (.2), Frankfort (.3), and Escanaba (6.5). The average for a period during the 1970's was 2.98 million tons. The commodities most frequently shipped are limestone, sand and gravel, basic chemicals, and paper products. MWT's cross-lake ferry handles passengers, freight, and rail traffic to Kewaunee, Wisconsin. It is presently running two round trips per day in the summer and one during the rest of the year. MWT is operating on a lease arrangement with CSX; no state subsidies are involved. The future of the ferry operation is uncertain, since freight shipments have been decreasing--and freight shipments are the primary source of income. The ferry plays a major role in the tourist activity of the city. As the only remaining cross-lake ferry, it brings as many as 90,000 people into the city annually. During the 1970's, passenger ferries crossed Lake Michigan from three ports: Ludington, Frankfort, and Muskegon, with Ludington having the most traffic. Air Transportation The Mason County Airport is a general aviation, Class B, commercial airport located in Pere Marquette Township at the US 31/US 10 junction. It has two paved and lighted runways: one 5,000-foot primary and one 3,500-foot crosswind. It has complete fueling and repair facilities, and is open year-round. The airport is rated for instrument landings and can handle all types of private aircraft and large turbo-prop planes. It does not provide commercial service but does provide service to private, corporate, and charter aircraft. Activity at the airport is projected to continue increasing. In 1984, it was estimated to have averaged 26 based aircraft, with 21,700 operations. This is projected to increase to 35 aircraft and 24,500 operations by 1994. Most of the activity is local traffic originating and terminating at the airport; about 40 percent is from other airports. The only regular air freight activity is for UPS. Commercial passenger service is available at Traverse City, Manistee, Muskegon, and Grand Rapids. Public Transportation Ludington had been without any intercity bus service for many months until recently when a trial service was initiated between Traverse City and Holland, with stops in Ludington and other cities and towns between these terminals. The trial will continue for over a year, when continuation will depend on the number of passengers using the service. 36 �' I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I r r r Ludington Area Dial-A-Ride provides transportation in the Ludington-Scottville area on a demand-response basis, operating six days a week. It serves all of the city, portions of Pere Marquette and Hamlin Townships, and Scottville. Passenger levels have been rather consistent, averaging about 11,500 to 13,500 per month. Winter months show highest use, since school children ride the system in the city. About one-third of the users are senior citizens, 30 percent are students, and 40 percent regular fares. A line-haul route (scheduled stops) between Ludington and Scottville was tried but was unsuccessful, so i t was discontinued. Long-term funding for the system is not clear. Presently, state and federal sources provide over half the required revenue. Less than 10 percent comes from fares. The remainder is provided by the participating units of government. UTILITIES Except for a few isolated locations which do not have sewer and water, the city is almost fully served by public utilities. Gas, electric, and telephone services are available throughout the city. Public Sewer Services The sewage treatment plant, about four miles east of the city, was constructed in 1975 and has a rated capacity of 7.5 million gallons per day (mgd) but has an operational capacity of 6 mgd. It is presently operating on an average of 2.8 mgd, with peaks up to 5 mgd. This high daily load is due primarily to high ground water infiltration and heavy water runoff . Part of the city's storm water drainage is still connected to the sanitary sewer system. The treatment plant utilizes a secondary treatment system; effluent flows into the Pere Marquette River. The transmission system includes both primary and secondary transmission mains, and operates on a gravity and forced system. Some segments are over 70 years old, and consequently have a high rate of infiltration. The city operates seven lift stations; the primary station at Rath and Dowland pumps to the treatment plant. Two of the stations have been recommended for replacement: South Madison and North James. Both of these have been in service for about 50 years. The main area not served by the sewer system is on both sides of North Washington Avenue north of Lowell Street, west to Rowe and east to Monona, and the 40-acre city-owned land northwest of the corner of Bryant and North Washington. In addition, there are some small sections around town, one to four blocks long which are not included. Another lift station would be required to provide adequate service to those areas not now served. Most of the system is used by homeowners and small commercial and industrial users. The largest individual user is Dow Chemical Company which pretreats its waste to remove hazardous 37 �chemical materials prior to discharge into the city system. There are only a few isolated locations of private on-site systems for residential use. Waste treatment is contracted to Pere Marquette Township and Mason County Department of Public Works. Separation of stormwater and sanitary sewer systems exists throughout most of the city. The stormwater system drains into Lincoln Lake, Lake Michigan, and Pere Marquette River. Public Water Services The water system includes a Lake Michigan intake, treatment plant on the lakeshore, above~and below-ground storage, and a transmission system in the city. The treatment plant was constructed in 1970, and has a capacity of up to 8 mgd. The average peak daily use is 2-3 mgd. The transmission system is virtually complete except for sections west and south from the corner of Bryant and N. Washington. All residences in the city have access to the system although an unknown number use private wells for drinking water. The oldest segments of the system are 100 years old, but are generally in good shape; annual maintenance and sandy soils have helped to protect the system. The city has two million gallons of storage: one million underground at the treatment plant, and one-half million each in above-ground tanks on Gaylord Avenue and Danaher Street. The city provides water to Pere Marquette and Amber Townships, and Scottville through a 20" line running along US 10; One-half million gallons of storage and a booster pump station are located near Brye Road to provide that service. The largest industrial users are Dow Chemical, Straits Steel & Wire, and Stokely in Scottville. Solid Waste The city contracts with a private hauler for the disposal of all residential, commercial, and industrial waste, except for that from Dow Chemical which has its own landfill outside of the city. Most domestic solid waste is transported to White Lake Landfill in Muskegon County, with the remainder going to Mason County Landfill. Collections are made daily; pickups throughout the city are on a weekly basis. Special collections for white goods and brush are scheduled annually. A transfer station is maintained by the city for residents with material not acceptable for the regular service. The city has participated in the county's recent solid disposal plan which recommends continuing on the present for the next five years, but moving toward more emphasis on reduction, composting, and recycling. (See Mason County Waste Plan, 1986.) 38 waste basis waste Solid �I I I I I I I I I I I r Electricity/Gas/Phone and Cable Television These services are available throughout the city. Michigan Consolidated Gas Company provides gas; Consumers Power Company, electricity; General Telephone of Michigan, telephone; Cable Vision, Inc., cable television. All maintain local offices or toll-free numbers for customer services. None of these companies reported major problems or issues; all indicated that they are capable of serving Ludington with any type of residential, commercial, or industrial service required. RECREATION The city undertook a complete recreational plan in 1984, which satisfies the requirements of the Federal Land and Water Conservation Fund as administered by the DNR. The plan includes a recreational inventory which is illustrated on the map in Figure VIII. The following summary of some of the available resources is taken from Recreational Development Plan of Ludington, Michigan (1984), and Recreation Plan Update (1986). Recreation Programming The city works in cooperation with the Ludington Board of Education in the operation and maintenance of city parks and programming of recreational activities. Programs and activities include the following: Softball (slow and fast pitch) T-ball Baseball (mites, midgets, inter.) Basketball Golf Soccer Football and Flag Football Tennis Volleyball Archery Shuffleboard Gymnastics Ice Skating Swimming (indoor) Hunter Safety Senior Citizen Activities Health Clinics Continuing Education Adult Physical Education Special Events Recreational Resources In addition to the playing fields and playgrounds where these activities are conducted, the city maintains a number of parks with a variety of recreational opportunities. The major ones are the following (a number of smaller parks can be identified on the map): I I ,- r 1. Stearns Park - 17 acres including one-half mile of Lake Michigan beach, two beach houses, shuffle board, horseshoes, playground, and picnic areas. 2. Peter Copeyon Park - 4.2 acres with 400 feet of frontage on Pere Marquette Lake, boat launch site, fish-cleaning station, restrooms, playground, and picnic areas. 39 �FIGURE VIII 8 LINCOLN LAKE CITY OF LUDINGTON MASTER PLAN UPDATE G G 6 Recreation Facilities Map Key Key H 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Name Oriole Field Steams Park Cartier Park Dejonge Playfield Optimist Field Dow Field Blodgett Park Senior Citizen Ctr Copeyon Park 4th Ward Park # Ownership 11 12 13 14 15 School City City School School DOW (Lease to City) City City City City 16 17 18 19 20 40 Name Iverson Park Community Pool Loomis St, Boat labb Municipal Marina City Park/Band Shell Fonner St. Simons Ch Elementary Sch Plgds Cormnarcial Marinas Racquet Club Golf Course Ownership City School State City City City ~ School Private Private Private ...__ _•_ __ j __ _.._ ..._ • - _ _ - _____J I �~ FIGURE IX Area-Wide Recreational Facilities ' 'I I I I I I I I I I Legend I I /\ CAMPGROUNDS 'Y OUTDOOR CENTERS AOAO ANO REST AREA + ,-ot) SU.TE ROADSIDE PARKS STATE SAFETY REST AREAS PUBLIC ACCESS SITES -J WILDLIFE FLOODING AREAS J... AECREA TtONAL HARBORS Ii; :~~I~(ti~e~N~:~~:ri'1:~~M .&O BANKS OVER THE ACRES INDICATED - STATE LAND 1111 FEDERAL LAND 41 �3. City Park - 2.9 acres on Ludington Avenue between Lewis and Gaylord, with band shell, picnic tables and benches. 4. Cartier Park - 68 acres including 2500 feet of frontage on Lincoln Lake, developed campground, boat launch site, nature area. Cartier Park has been the subject of special study recently to examine the feasibility of upgrading the campground section of the park to provide better services to campers and consequently, make the campground self-supporting, perhaps even profitable to the city. The campground, on the west side of the park off Lakeshore Drive, covers 24 acres; the remaining east section, 44 acres, is undeveloped except for some minor roads and is suitable for hiking or skiing trails, and other passive recreation. The plan calls for development of the campground in three phases, with the cost to be spread over several years. (See Cartier Park; A Study of Market & Development, Tom Sturr, 1986.) Area-wide Recreational Facilities Mason County and Ludington have a great variety of recreational resources. In addition to Lake Michigan, Pere Marquette Lake, and Lincoln Lake, inland lakes and parks provide opportunities for swimming, fishing, boating, camping, etc. Figure IX shows these facilities on the county map. Port Ludington provides some of the best sport fishing on Lake Michigan. Public access to Lake Michigan is available at several locations. Those identified on the county recreation map are: 1. 2. 3. Buttersville Peninsula on Pere Marquette Lake (city property). Suttons Landing in Pere Marquette Township on the west side of US 31 (access to Pere Marquette River and Lake). Pere Marquette River access on the east siqe of US 31, almost directly across from Suttons Landing. Those identified on the city recreation map are: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Loomis Street Boat Launch. Peter Copeyon Park. Madison & Water Streets. Cartier Park (access via Lincoln Lake and Lincoln River). Private marinas on Pere Marquette Lake. The Ludington Board of Education maintains an 80-acre school forest located just east of the city limits between Bryant and Tinkham, with trails for nonmotorized use. Public parks are maintained by Pere Marquette and Hamlin Townships adjacent to the city. The county fairgrounds on US 10 and US 31, east of the city, are the site of the annual county fair in August, and other events scheduled during the year. The county maintains a rest area and picnic grounds on US 31 south of the city and the 42 • • • • • • • • • • • �I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I TABLE 8 Recreation Analysis Standard Activity Baseba 11 Softba 11 1/6,000 people 1/3,000 people Existing Need I I I Field 7 N 3 Fields 3 N 5 Cour-ts 8 N Tennis Courts 1/2,000 people Ice Skating Basketba 11 1120,ooc2 3 111,000 9 Courts Indoor Pool 1115,ooc2 I Pool Beach Boat Launch Sites Nature Areas I Rink 2'/people at pop. 3/4 4 1/10 miles of stream 5a/1,000 6 3a/ I ,000 Public Fish Access I site/3 miles of water Community Bui Iding l/25,0oc2 Soccer Field Footbal I Field + 7 1/1,500 (or 1/15,000 visitorsJ Ia/ I ,000 Marina I ,800' 6 Picnic Area Shuffle Board 3 150 seasonal wel Is/ 60-70 transit slips I/ I , 500 peop Ie 2 1/10,000 Car-t ier Park area, less campground. Deficiencies 3 N N I Note: 2,640 I 10 N 45 Acres 44* N 27 Acres 30a N 2 Sites 3 N I Center I N* 6 Courts 17 N 9 Acres 8 N* 150 y 6 Fields 3 y I Fields 4 N Standards were accepted from the fol lowing sources: * Includes public and private facll ities. 2 3 4 5 6 7 Tennessee State Planning Commission Michigan Department of Natural Resources National Recreation and Parks Association Vermont, Outdoor Recreation Plan Arkansas Statewide Plan New Jersey Recreation Plan Ludington Parks Commission 43 N 3 Sites 150 SI ips 7 y 7 �Pumped-Storage Campground and Recreation Area adjacent to the pumped-storage plant. Ludington State Park, eight miles north of the city at the end of M-116, is located between Lake Michigan and Hamlin Lake. It includes more than 4,000 acres of forest and dune lands, with beaches on both lakes, picnic areas, campgrounds, and 18 miles of marked trails. In winter, cross-country ski trails are kept groomed. A public boat launch gives access to Hamlin Lake. Within a 30-mile radius of Ludington there are over 2,450 campsites in public and private campgrounds. North of the state park, Manistee National Recreation Area provides thousands of acres of public recreation and hunting area, including campgrounds and picnic areas. West Shore Community College provides both indoor and outdoor recreational facilities which are available to local residents, some with a modest fee. In addition, special events are scheduled at the college which are open to area residents. There are a number of privately operated recreational facilities in the area: Ludington Hills golf course (south of the city) is public, but Lincoln Hills and Epworth Heights golf courses are both private. The Jaycees operate a miniature golf course at Stearns Park. A private racquet club is located on Rath Avenue, north of Bryant. There are also seven marinas on Pere Marquette Lake in addition to the municipal marina, making a total of about 352 slips. Recreation Analysis Table 8 provides an assessment of the city's recreational resources based on standards the Recreation Commission feels are appropriate for the city. Deficiencies are shown in the following areas: Marina Slips: Although this analysis shows the city has enough slips, the need for more slips is significant, based on the length of the waiting list for slips in the municipal marina. Probably the standard applied was developed before the tremendous upsurge in pleasure boating that has been taking place in Michigan. It has been suggested that there is an almost inexhaustible demand for marina slips all along the Michigan shoreline. The Waterfront Master Plan suggests that an additional 160 slips would be a minimum to begin to meet this demand. Soccer Fields: The city needs standard-size fields, and city personnel have been looking at areas in the northern part of the city. Indoor Ice Rink: Although no deficiency is shown in the table, need has been expressed for an indoor rink, particularly since no outdoor rinks are being maintained at the present time. 44 • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • �I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Overall, the city's recreational facilities are quite adequate and, with the exception of these items cited above, meet local needs. The strong cooperation between the city and the school district enhances the operation and efficiency of the programs and the facilities. PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY These services, along with public utilities, provide structure that allows the city to function. The level services is directly related to development potential. to the community survey, Ludington residents appear to well satisfied with these services. the basic of these According be fairly Police Department The Police Department provides 24-hour service with manned patrols. In cooperation with Mason County Sheriff Department, a central dispatch system has recently been established. The police department office on Loomis and Rath is open for walk-in contact from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm, Monday through Friday. All phone calls are answered in the sheriff's department. The city police provide primary road and traffic patrol, conduct investigations, respond to criminal complaints, and assist with crowd control, fire calls, and special event activities. No major issues or problems have been identified. Fire Department Ludington's Fire Department is entirely an on-call department. Most communities this size have a fire department which employs some full-time personnel. Nevertheless, the city maintains an insurance (ISO) rating of 6. Rates are determined by the National Insurance Service Office; the lower the rating on a 1-10 scale, the more effective are the fire fighting defenses. Most on-call or part-paid departments in other cities rate 7 or higher. Ludington has been at a 6 rating for the past five years. The department is fully equipped, and water is available on a grid system, with hydrants about 300 feet apart throughout the city. On the average, response time for the 21-person department is 2.5 to 5 minutes to get the trucks rolling. The number of fire calls has decreased over the past several years, attributed to an expansion of public education and prevention activities. All commercial buildings are inspected annually. In 1985, the department reported 75 calls, half the number reported in 1975. The city provides service on a contract basis to individual property owners in Pere Marquette Township. The fire department maintains a marine rescue squad and an extrication rescue squad. 45 �There are no major problems with Ludington's fire department. Only two issues have been raised regarding services: (1) the lack of direct water supply to the North Washington area where no public water is provided; and (2) low pressure flows due to older 4" water mains in some areas. Other City Services Except for the fire and police departments, the city's administrative of£ices are located in the Municipal Building on William Street. The second floor, originally designed as the City Commission meeting room, is not accessible to the handicapped, so public meetings have had to be scheduled in either the school administration building or the senior citizen center. The major part of the municipal building is the garage for the Department of Public Works. Recent discussion has raised questions about the best use of this prime location across from the municipal marina, and adjacent to the central business district. If the garage and the heavy road equipment could be moved to another site in the city, the building perhaps could be adapted for more efficient community use, including an accessible meeting room. Medical Facilities Memorial Medical Center of West Michigan, located on Ludington Avenue at the east city limits, provides area-wide hospital services to Ludington and Mason County. It is a full-service hospital with 95 acute-care beds. In 1983-84, extensive renovation expanded outpatient and ancillary services. inpatient services are down about 20 percent since 1980, while total outpatient services are up 8.2 percent; outpatient diagnostic services are up 26 percent, and outpatient surgical procedures, 274 percent. Ambulance service is provided by the county and is housed at the hospital. There are three fully equipped advanced life-support units. Almost all emergencies and rescue calls are handled by the ambulance service. There are a number of other medical services available in the area. In 1982, 30 health care providers in all fields were reported. There are two nursing/personal care facilities: Baywood Nursing Home and Oakview Medical Care Facility-Mason County. In addition, there are a number of adult care homes in the city and the county. Regional medical facilities are in Muskegon, Grand Rapids, and Traverse City. AREA PUBLIC SERVICES These educational, cultural, and service functions, although located for the most part in the city, serve a much wider population. They have a primary effect on the quality of life for county as well as city residents. 46 �I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Education Ludington Area Public School District covers 75 square miles, and includes, in addition to the city, all or portions of Pere Marquette, Summit, and Hamlin Townships. Enrollment in 1985-86 was about 2,500. The district operates six elementary schools, one junior high, and one high school on 19 mills. The school district receives no state aid. Existing physical facilities are in good condition. Busing is provided for all out-of-city students; city students may ride the Dial-A-Ride system. .The school district provides vocational education for the and as has been mentioned, operates recreational programs city. Peterson Auditorium at the high school is the meeting facility in the county. There are two parochial in the city: one provides K-12 education, and one K-8. county, for the largest schools Mason-Lake Intermediate Developmental Center, located on US 10 between Ludington and Scottville, provides a number of training and support programs for children and young people in the two counties and Pentwater with physical, mental, and emotional handicaps, as well as a program for gifted and talented children. Out of a total enrollment in the districts of 5,400, 625 students are participating in these special programs. The Intermediate School District provides other services to the participating districts such as in-service training for cooks and bus drivers, group food buying, and communication with state offices. West Shore Community College, located eight miles northeast of the city, is a two-year college which serves Mason, Manistee, and parts of Lake and Oceana Counties. It provides a number of two-year vocational curricula as well as an academic curriculum which is transferable to four-year institutions in the state. The college also provides a number of services to the community at large: conference and meeting facilities, recreational facilities, library services, entertainment and special programs, and exhibits of many kinds. WSCC hosts the Manistee-Mason Community Growth Alliance (CGA), an area-wide economic development clearinghouse. The college's Business and Industrial Institute provides local services such as developing business plans and marketing studies, and coordinates business research. The Institute receives technical support from MSU. Cultural and Historic Resources The city's public library, located on Ludington Avenue in the central business district, is a member of the Mid-Michigan Library League; it handles inter-library loans from other libraries througho~t the state. The library provides a variety of regional services, including outreach for the homebound, a bookmobile with the county materials for the blind and 47 �sight-impaired, and a regional depository. collection totals about 35,000 volumes. The current The library conducts special programs for children and adults such as films, summer reading programs, and special seasonal events. The second floor of the library does not have barrier-free access, but at the present time, public programs are not scheduled there. Rose Hawley Museum and White Pine Village are operated by the Mason County Historical Society. The museum has recently been moved into expanded quarters on West Loomis Street, where there are meeting facilities, extensive research library and archives, and exhibit areas where artifacts illustrating county history are displayed on a rotating basis on such topics as: local maritime history, lumbering, Indian culture, industrial and commercial activities, dolls, toys and games, etc. White Pine Village, located on South Lakeshore Drive overlooking Lake Michigan, has 16 relocated or specially constructed buildings surrounding the first county courthouse. First opened in 1976, the Village has been growing ever since. It is open daily from Memorial Day to Labor Day, with many special events scheduled which illustrate various aspects of county history. There are a number of special programs for children, including special tours when the Village is decorated for Christmas. A master plan was developed recently to guide future expansion, both of physical facilities and programs. Mason County Historical Society enjoys unusual support from county residents; it is partially supported by millage which has been reaffirmed several times. The Society · is affiliated with Mason County Genealogical Society and with the Old Engine Club. Other historical sites are the Pere Marquette memorial, on the Buttersville Peninsula, and the county courthouse in the city, a registered historical building. Ludington also has a number of fine older homes, some of which provide architectural significance and charm to the city, and which might justify investigation to determine the extent of historical significance. Senior Services The Ludington Area Senior Citizen Center, located on Foster and Rowe Streets, offers a wide range of recreational and support services for senior citizens in the city and in Pere Marquette, Hamlin, Summit, and Amber Townships. Services are targeted to over 4,000 senior citizens; funding is provided by the participating governmental units, including the county. Recreational opportunities include dancing, nature and hiking club, shuffleboard, badminton, yoga, billiards~ table games, and special events. Support services include information and referral, diet and health programs, tax assistance, and a variety 48 ~ II II II • • �'I of cultural programs. In addition, the Department of Social Services offers a number of services at the center. I I I County and state offices are located several places in the city. The courthouse, on Ludington Avenue east of the central business distri6t, houses the primary administrative and judicial services. Economic Development Corporation, and the Health Department, Mental Health, Department of Social Services and various other services are located on South Washington Avenue. The County Sheriff's Department and the County Jail are on Delia, two blocks north of Ludington Avenue. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I County and State Services 49 �' I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I V. LAND USE AND DEVELOPMENT TRENDS Ludington is a mature community, almost entirely developed. Less than 20 percent of the city's land area is vacant, with only limited areas available for major development of any kind. COMPARISON OF LAND USES, 1962 and 1986 Table 9 compares percentages of various categories of land use in 1962, before the last master plan was completed, and in 1986. The increased acreage shown in the table represents annexation of various parcels of land over the years. But annexation : snot considered a reasonable alternative today, with the development of Pere Marquette Charter Township around the city's boundaries. Although annexation added more acres, the proportion of vacant land is still the same today as it was in 1962. Acreage has increased in almost every category, but proportions have remained virtually the same, with residential and industrial uses and parks showing slightly increased percentages. The Present Land Use Map (Figure X) shows where these types of uses are distributed in the city today. LAND USE CLASSIFICATION Residential Uses Single-family dwellings predominate in most residential areas in the city. The traditional residential and accessory uses are expected to continue in these areas, as well as generally accepted uses such as churches, schools, parks and playgrounds, neighborhood stores, and other uses deemed not to be detrimental to the residential environment. The quality of housing is relatively stable; however, with the age of most houses nearing fifty years, it becomes more important to continue housing rehabilitation programs and enforcement of building codes in order to maintain that quality. Two-family and multi-family uses have increased, many through conversion of large single-family homes into two or more dwelling units. Conversions in single-family areas need to be monitored to insure that traffic, parking, or other potential problems will not have a negative impact on neighboring properties. 51 �4-lkz CITY OF LUDINGTON COMPREHENSIVE 8 LINCOLN PLAN EXISTING LAND USE :J SINGLE FAMILY LAKE fi:@;:lfi::::::;t MULTI FAMLY IBR\IMIM COMMERCIAL INSTITUTIONAL/PUBLIC PARK/RECREATIONAL IIIOUSTRIAL VACANT _ISS,rr1t, J·lwmm m ~ □ Qronrol i □□□I LJIL iLJ~. .:.:-:4'•:• :::J:b:J□□□□ □□□□ - Q::· 1~r.:l]~l[Je]· r1 □'iG~ 1~r }: :11 lrr.:J r-71olri lffi"l ffi7. II• ! □ 0 00 □ · ~ ~-:= □ ~ ::.1w~~i!B_oo10~□□ Cl Lt ~ I ••I I j • ,:1 •• I t;oj 1 ~o'. -~ I•" J I ;; I :o~o~ 0000 ~: i i ~ • ,~o~ I ·.:. rnf'i fT'7 W1] I: ", fil II 7~ jhI :: 0 ~ ~❖ C111~f t::.:._J ooooo W1·• ~ iJ □ D ~ ~I~ ,~i k.n ~I I ==:=l [~J EJ □II ijn~; e::m ]r-i rm ...- ...- \ ;~~1 ', !'i . ill ~ lLkl ILI u!!U==. 0 ,. l ...z 1mnnnn1e7c:71~,~o □,ooo ~ "'_, 0 0 00000 ~j " ,~ljllf //JV ~• rr:-:•-;.;J!=====thf,f:•.:· 1 . · •:•:• []i□□□I) nfJie:J □~ II~ □□ l~lll□□□ 117 r7Jllllll!7 □ rn7 ,~,1 lliw rumJllillU Lm) 8 <i, .. :,.1¥ I I, - {~ ifi!!fi1'.::::::.-:-:::::·:·:·:·:·:::::::::::•:::::::;:·• . ~ LEGEND STREET SYSTEMS ~ --~-- STATE TRUNKLINE COUNTY PRIMARY G, .,,.116Pld•. M.c~l'I N --- COUNTY LOCAL Sl1J1e a IJA'".l .. ...... .. MICHIGAN LOCAL STREET -------- CITY OFFICES © MAJOR ST RE ET v ou 2000 ' I -..AP BY DE PAR TM!:.NT OF 'r•TE 'l·,'R 1000' .. TRANSPORTATION 1986 ... G �TABLE 9 Land Use in Ludington 1962 and 1986 1962 Classification Residential Total (Single-family) (Two-family) (Multi-family) • • • • •I I II I I Percent of Total Acres 2,044 TOTAL 1986 100.0 513.5 (473.0) ( 19.5) ( 21.0) 25.1 (23.1) ( 1.0) ( 1.0) Acres 2,635 727.3 (596.8) ( 46.5) ( 84.0) Percent of Total 100.0 27.6 (22.6) ( 1.8) ( 3.2) Commercial 35.5 1.7 55.4 2.1 Industrial 123.0 6.0 217.2 8.2 Public 92.5 4.5 103.9 3.9 Semi-Public 48.5 2.4 93.9 3.6 103.5 5.1 183.7 7.0 522.5 25.6 536.3 20.4 Water 209.3 10.2 209.3 7.9 Vacant 395.7 19.4 508.0 19.3 Parks Streets Way, SOURCE: & Rights-ofinc. railroad 1962, Geer Associates; 1986, West Michigan Regional Planning Commission. Encroachment of nonresidential uses should be minimized by careful review of such uses as home occupations, industrial and commercial uses along transitional residential boundaries, and existing nonconforming uses in residential areas. Screening or other buffering should be required, both in existing circumstances and with future development, wherever nonresidential uses border residential areas. Multi-family housing can include a wide range of styles such as garden style apartments, high rise buildings, clustered townhouse or single family units, and condominiums. Although such developments can serve as transitional uses between single-family neighborhoods and more intensive uses, that has not been the pattern in the city. There are not clearly defined areas of the city designated for multi-family housing, and although some vacant parcels may be targeted for such development, multi-family 53 l �housing is likely to remain scattered throughout the city. Careful planning of new developments will insure that negative impacts do not result if attention is given to such factors as density, access to major streets, adequate open space, provision for on-site recreation, adequate on-site parking and internal traffic circulation, provision of public utilities, and landscaping and buffering. Commercial Uses Commercial uses are scattered throughout the city, with several well established clusters outside of the downtown area: South Washington and Madison Avenues in the fourth ward, South Washington and Dowland, North Washington across from the high school, as well a number of mixed commercial/residential uses on East Ludington Avenue. Commercial uses vary in intensity, depending to a large extent on whether they are oriented toward pedestrian or automobile traffic. Pedestrian-oriented areas are characterized by retail and office uses offering comparison shopping and professional and financial services, entertainment and restaurants, parking lots which provide convenient access to a number of such outlets, adequate sidewalks and pedestrian crossings at intersections, street furniture and other amenities which encourage pedestrian activity. Loading docks and delivery traffic need to be located and channeled so as to provide the least possible obstruction to pedestrians. The Central Business District is the primary area for such pedestrian emphasis, as detailed in the recently developed Central Business District Master Plan. General commercial uses oriented toward automobile traffic are usually more intensive uses, generating more traffic, sometimes including open display areas, drive-in facilities, automobile service facilities, etc. Parking is usually provided on the site. Some commercial uses, such as neighborhood shopping areas or other more isolated uses, will attract both pedestrian and automobile traffic. Local convenience shopping and neighborhood professional offices should be designed to serve the surrounding residential areas. This type of commercial development should be carefully planned to avoid spot-commercial or strip-commercial results. Parking availability and traffic flow need to be carefully monitored. Limited com~ercial uses often include a mix of office and professional services with residential uses, and sometimes represent transitional areas. Concerns include preservation and reuse of existing buildings such as large single-family residences with architectural or historic significance. Landscaping, rear-yard parking, and appropriate signs all contribute to the preservation of the special atmosphere of such areas. Parts of such areas may be eligible for historic district 54 I • • • • �designation, and investigation of this possibility could serve to guarantee the kind of preservation that is desired. • • • • • -I I I I I Resort/vacation accommodations are found in several places in the city, and this plan does not intend to change that by designating a particular resort commercial area. Any expansion or addition of these uses, wherever located in the city, should be planned so as to maintain the leisure/residential character of the community. Parking, signs, landscaping, and projected traffic impacts need to be monitored closely to preserve the present low-profile atmosphere. It is expected that commercial uses oriented toward marina and water-based activities will expand in the future. These uses will be located primarily on the Pere Marquette Lake waterfront. Special consideration needs to be given to the location of more intensive, semi-industrial activities such as boat storage and major repair. Adequate parking space for boat trailers will be an increasing problem, although such parking is not necessarily required on the waterfront. Industrial Uses A ge~eral industrial district provides full utilities and services and ideally is isolated from less intensive uses • Access is off major streets, and the boundaries provide adequate screening from surrounding nonindustrial uses. The industrial park is such an area and major new industrial development is expected to be located there. Therce are, however, important industries which are well established and expected to continue in other parts of the city. It is important to provide for expansion of these industries where it is possible without creating negative impacts on the surrounding uses. Provision for adequate buffering to minimize such impacts will be a critical consideration. Limited industrial uses include less intensive manufacturing, assembling, warehousing, and storage facilities. These activities tend to have little or no sensory impact other than increased traffic. Access to major streets should be required, with truck traffic using designated routes. Physical barriers such as landscaping or berms should provide adequate screening between these and adjacent nonindustrial uses. Public/Semi-Public Uses Governmental uses include city, county, and state offices and other facilities which are located in various places throughout the city. All facilities open to the public should be fully accessible. Consistent directional and location signs would facilitate identification by the public of these scattered sites. Ancillary services such as the Department of Public Works garage and heavy vehicle storage should be located outside the downtown area. 55 I ,L ;->K �Semi-public and institutional uses include public and private schools, religious facilities, hospital, museum, library, and similar uses. With adequate provision for parking and traffic flow, these uses are generally acceptable in most areas of the city. Parks and Recreational Uses Most parks and recreational facilities are public uses as well. Campgrounds, marinas, and public access to rivers and lakes are included in this category. Here again, uniform directional signs could improve the aesthetic quality as well as make finding particular sites easier. • • Pedestriin walks and bicycle paths would provide easier access between the various public attractions and commercial centers, such as: Stearns Park, Loomis Street Boat Launch, Coast Guard, Municipal Marina, City Park, new waterfront develo~ment, and downtown. In addition, designated bicycle routes in other parts of the city would provide safer conditions for the considerable number of people who use bicycles for transportation and recreation. DEVELOPMENT TRENDS AND FUTURE LAND USE The Future Land Use Map accompaning this Comprehensive Plan is intended to show general land uses as guidelines for future development. It is recognized that there may be deviations depending upon circumstances, and that within the boundaries of each category there may be other uses included; there is no intention to suggest that every parcel in a particular area must be developed as designated. The map is subject to refinement and amendment, as is the entire plan. Thus, this map differs from the Zoning Map which does dictate current land uses. In addition to the previously described uses which are indicated on the map, the Future Land Use Map (Figure XI) shows the areas where development may be expected in the future, as well as areas where redevelopment should be encouraged or where particular concern has been expressed. To facilitate discussion, the following areas have been numbered on the map. 1. Manufacturer's Addition Manufacturer's Addition, in the northern part of the city, was Ludington's first ''industrial park." Originally developed for industrial use, with residential lots platted around it, this section has had varying success as an industrial center over the years. At the present time, there are a number of vacant buildings, some of which can be reused. There are a number of operating industrial plants, and a mixture of scattered residences. With the recent development of the industrial park on the south side of the 56 • • • • • • • �J city, the interest in having further industrial development in Manufacturer's Addition has waned. One possibility for reuse of some vacant buildings might be light industrial uses, such as warehousing, which could be encouraged with appropriate screening from adjoining residential uses. The possibility of moving the city's public works garage and heavy equipment storage to this area has been discussed. Thoughtful planning is necessary to make maximum use or reuse of buildings and land in this area, while at the same time, protecting the surrounding residential areas. 'I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 2. Residential/Recreational/Office Development One large parcel available for development in the city is the 40 acres now owned by the city, northwest of the corner of Washington and Bryant. South and southeast of this parcel are vacant areas of sufficient size for major development, perhaps for multi-family use. Recreational, residential, and low intensity office or "high tech" uses have been considered for the city property and the adjacent areas. Major development of any kind, however, will require extension of the city's water and sewer lines and a lift station to insure adequate service. 3. Neighborhood Shopping It is expected that future residential development in this general area will create demand for low-intensity neighborhood shopping outlets. As has been previously indicated, local convenience shopping and neighborhood professional offices should be designed to serve the surrounding residential areas, with adequate safeguards against proliferating commercial development. 4. City Entrance/Gateway The entrance to the city is an area of particular concern. It is considered critical that the existing style be preserved on East Ludington Avenue from the city limits to the Central Business District. The strip-commercial development outside the city limits should not be allowed to "creep in" and destroy the gracious aspect which has continued to exist. It is intended that this area continue to have mixed residential and office uses, with retention and preservation of existing buildings, most of which were originally large single-family houses. Where reuse is desirable, existing architecture should be maintained. Particular attention must be given to appropriate signs, parking, and landscaping so as to maintain the unique atmosphere of the area. 57 �5. Central Business District The Central Business District (CBD) provides a mixture of retail outlets, entertainment, professional and financial services. Activities should be oriented toward the pedestrian shopper with provision of ample open spaces, street furniture, landscaping, appropriate signs, and consolidated parking. The Central Business District Master Plan provides detailed suggestions for additions, renovations and/or reuse. Residential uses ~f upper stories of downtown buildings would probably result in more activity and expand the market. The southern end of South James Street has several vacant buildings and many of the buildings currently in use show deterioration. In the judgment of professional planners working on waterfront and downtown design, one of the reasons for this is that James Street dead-ends just past Dowland. with the development of the waterfront area, and the loop road to connect James Street with the extension of Dowland east (through the waterfront development area), a new interest in reuse and redevelopment of South James Street should follow. Most of the uses in this area are not now pedestrian-oriented. However, the direct pedestrian connections planned between the waterfront and downtown should encourage commercial activity more appropriate to downtown. 6. Waterfront/Marine Areas The property with the best potential for development is the CSX property along the Pere Marquette Lake waterfront. The recently completed Waterfront Master Plan outlines the guidelines for developing this property and some surrounding land, part of it owned by the city. Plans call for a second marina, redevelopment of the municipal complex, new access to the ferry dock, housing, and public areas. An important goal in this plan is the connection of this waterfront area with the downtown business district, with emphasis on mutual support rather than competition between the waterfront and downtown. In addition to the area included in this plan, it is intended that the waterfront area include the Pere Marquette Lake shoreline around the bayou and south to Peter Copeyon Park. Development in these areas should include a variety of marine-related uses targeted to both visitors and residents. It is critical to maintain public access to the waterfront as well as scenic vistas. Height of any proposed buildings as well as adequate open space requirements will be important determining factors in any future development. Some of the adjoining areas, particularly Madison Street south of the bridge and South Washington Avenue, have 58 • • • • •~ • '• I �'• -I I I I I I I I I I I I I I developed more or less haphazardly and now show a mix of residential, various levels of commercial, and even industrial uses on some sites. Careful planning is required to encourage appropriate marina-related commercial uses and specialty shops and services for marina users; adequate screening should be provided to protect surrounding residential uses. 7• Industrial Expansion Provision for expansion of existing industries could be made on Dowland Street by the gradual phasing out of residential uses, particularly on the south side of the street and south to the shoreline. Consideration should be given to industries which may require docking facilities; industrial requirements should be coordinated with marina-related development expected in the waterfront area. COOPERATION WITH PERE MARQUETTE CHARTER TOWNSHIP Since Pere Marquette Charter Township virtually surrounds the city, i t seems imperative that the two units of government cooperate on future plans and development. Figure XII, in the Appendix, shows the Future Land Use Plan for Pere Marquette Charter Township. For city planners, it is important to consider what the township plans to do on our mutual boundaries. For example, the fact that township land surrounding Ludington's industrial park is planned to be industrial provides opportunity for cooperation in expanding industrial activities, perhaps through use of tax-sharing incentives. In other areas, consideration will need to be given to what adjoining uses now exist or may be developed in the future. 59 �'-I EPILOGUE Present-day planners are faced with both the mistakes and the triumphs of the past. Decisions have to be made on the basis of what is practicable and what is desirable in order to preserve what is advantageous, to mitigate what is not desirable, and to avoid the same kinds of mistakes in the future. This Comprehensive Plan is designed to serve as a guide for desirable change in Ludington's future. If it is to remain usable, it must be periodically reviewed, and amended when circumstances serve to change the goals or policies. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 61 �' 'J I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I APPENDIX A FUNDING RESOURCES With many federal funding programs being cut back or cut out entirely, the city must depend primarily on resources available by its own authority, with support in some cases from state and federal sources. Local Resources General Obligation Bonds: Public improvements are supported by a pledge of the city's taxing authority, generally requiring voter approval. General Revenue Bonds: Public purpose revenue-generating bonds. Special Assessments: Specific public assessments by a petition or city initiative assessing the property owners who benefit in the designated district. Industrial/Economic Development Bonds: Private purpose bonding issues under Act 62 (Industrial Development), LEDCOR/EDC, Michigan Strategic Fund, and DOA. Tax Abatements: Incentives to encourage new industry or rehabilitation of existing industrial uses under Act 198 (1974). Tax Increment Financing (TIFA): Tax increases in a specified district are captured to be used for improvements in that district. City Income Tax: General municipal revenue source. Hotel/Motel Room Tax: A specific tourist-related development. revenue source for State and Federal Resources Community Development Block Grants: Discretionary loans and grants for housing, economic development, and planning projects. Land and Water Conservation Funds/Michigan Natural Resource Trust Funds: recreational grants for land acquisition and development. Michigan Equity Funds: Historic Designation: Cultural improvement grants. Technical assistance, loans, and grants. Michigan Waterway Fund/Coastal Zone Management Fund: assistance and grants for coastal improvements. 63 technical �Emergency Home Moving Program/Army Corps of Engineer Advance Measures Program: Grants and loans for shore-land improvements due to high water. Economic Development Administration Public Works Grants Program: Grants and loans for public improvements and economic development. HUD's Urban Development Action Grant Program: for economic development projects. Grants and loans Michigan Strategic Fund: Assistance and technical information through Michigan Department of Commerce, and bonding authority. Private Initiatives Joint ventures and private syndications have recently become popular mechanisms to entice the private sector to participate, finance, or even develop municipal or public projects. Appropriate state and federal tax advantages and the appropriate economic climate are necessary. Private purchase of facilities or equipment and lease-back to the municipality have also been successful if the appropriate tax advantages are present. Private financing at reduced interest rates. These are particularly successful if the low interest monies can be rolled back into a fund which can be used to finance future projects. Private foundations and institutions are resources for special projects and programs. The larger industries in the city such as Dow Chemical and Consumers Power have private foundations and endowments whi~h have historically been supportive in an effort to be good corporate citizens. The establishment of a Ludington Foundation has been suggested. Individuals, corporations, or groups who wish to make substantial contributions to the city could contribute funds which could be used for special projects to improve the quality of life for all residents. Local businesses, large and small, can be asked to participate in community projects and programs; frequently, mutual interests can be satisfied. 64 �I I I I I I I I I I I I APPENDIX B Tables and Figures Table 10 11 12 13 Figure XII Climatological Summary Building Permits and Valuation, City of Ludington, 1980-1986 State Equalized Value, City of Ludington, 1980-1986 Characteristics by Census Block Areas, City of Ludington, 1980 Pere Marquette Charter Township Future Land Use Plan I I I I I ' ' 65 �__ .- •.• --- . . . . , TABLE 10 Climatological Summary Period: 1951-80 TFMPFAAT ,cc- IF MEANS . . . I: >- ::, J AM FE8 MAA APA MAY J UN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC YEAA dC X 0 ",: >- .J I: ....I -I: 0 I: 15 , E, 15. 3 23 . 0 34 , 3 43 . 1 52 , E, 57 , E, 5E, , 8 50 , 7 41 . 3 31 . 2 20 . 9 22 . 2 23 . 2 31 , E, 44 , 3 54 . 3 E,3 , 8 E,8 , E, E,7 , 3 E,0 , 5 50 . 2 38 . 3 27 . 4 I ;;o 28 . 7 31 . 1 40 , 1 54 . 2 E,5 , E, 74 . q 7'3 . 5 77 . 8 70 . 3 59 . 0 45 . 3 33 . 8 z ...J z 3E,' 91 4€, . ol •FAQM 1951 - 8 0 NOAMALS 55 . ol SOURCE: 0 .... a: Vl 0W a: " " U I •,._ .J W Cl a: -I 5E,+ 55+ 73 85+ 88+ '34+ '33+ '37+ 92+ 83+ 74+ E,2 97 0 >- 0 .... a: Vl ow a: Ow >- z > 0 " 0 0 CD ">- " u :I WO a: ...J w 11 - 11+ 78 1E, 20 - 22+ 7q 17 30 -14+ E,2 2 30 12+ 73 11 25 22+ E,E, 10 1E, 28+ 72 11 3 37+ 72 5 55 1q 3€,+ 77 2€, 53 2 2E,+ 59 1€, 71 2 19+ 7E, 27 E,1 3 3 58 30 E,2 1 -14+ 7E, 31 75 54 E,7 70 72 5E, E,E, I DEGAEE DAYS ME~~ ~\ ~~EA MIN MO~ I: >- ::, ...J I: ooc-rfPTTATl r"l, rr ra , I EXTREMES AUG FEB 551 , 9I -22 191111 I Cl' " 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 z :I 0 " ...J r,W M CD 1'3 15 E, 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 14 2 I 57 0 :I z 0 " ...J "'w M CD 30 27 2E, 14 4 0 0 0 1 5 18 28 I 153 I " 0 Cl lfl .JJ z :I 0 >- w « ...J w CD 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 Vl w I "CD 1327 1170 103_5 E,21 344 104 25 43 I , r ,irH , c;, SNOW MEfr~ ~~~~EA l, J Cl lfl .JJ -z ...J z "w w 0 Vl 0U "CD I: 0 0 0 0 12 E,8 137 115 149 4E,4 14 801 11€,E, 0 0 7249 I c; * • * 0 Z * 2 . 37 1 . 77 1 _qq 2 , 8'3 2 . 47 2 . '33 2 . 18 3 . 7'3 3 . 25 2 . 95 2 . 77 E, 352 J .... >Vl ...J w I ........ " z W o I: ffi 4 . 74 4 . 12 7 . 08 4 , '35 4 , 8'3 8 . 31 E. . '32 9 . 39 8 , E,8 E, . 48 c:: .... a: ">- w Vl >- ~ a: >- " - "w>- "0 ...J w a" a: I: ::, ...J z " w I: Cl 5q 5q 7E, 51 E,Q e,q 1 , E,Q 1 . 77 1 . q3 1 . 5'3 1 . E,7 2 , '3E, E, 7 E,E, 7q E,7 5E, e,q 2 , 44 52 27 07 30 17 OE, 27 18 08 14 2 . 48 52 75 E,1 E,9 5 . 24 75 E, , 40 E,2 4 . 58 3 . 30 2 . 00 1 . 70 2 . 71 31 . 841 AUG q . 39I 15I AUG 4 . 501 e.si 001 E,5 E,1 59 23 58 17 E,2 09 ► 27 . 4 17 . E, q _q 2 0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .5 E, , 4 19 . E. - .... I: I X Z "I: 0I: E, E,, 5 51 . 3 22 . 0 8.4 .0 .0 C, c:: a: - ,~0 ,: a: <:: 0 >- 0 w w a: 0 ,: w 0 77 E, 1 58 75 E, 5 5 4 E, 1 .0 5 5 4 .0 .0 5 9 54 15 . 5 7E, 5S. 3 E, 2 5 E, E, E, E, c:: oO ,: 0 - a: 1 2 2 2 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 \0 \0 0 , , 2 2 1 0 1 0 0 0 J AN 83 ' 41 e.e. .sl nl E,41 19 1 ALSO ON EAAL I EA DATE S 3 U.S. Climatological Survey, 1984. JJ �TABLE 11 J J Building Permits and Valuation City of Ludington, 1980-1986 J I I I I I Building Classification I I ALTERATIONS & ADDITIONS NEW CONSTRUCTION YEAR No. of Permits TOTAL VALUATION Valuation No, of Permi-:s Valuation 145 94 51 $1,076,626 392,656 683,970 $4,621,012 545,048 326,221 218,827 _4,616,422 1980 - TOTAL Residential Non-residential 11 9 3 $3,544,386 3,077,07921 467,307 1981 - TOTAL Residential Non-Residential 2 4,071,374 5 176, 7103 3,894,664 128 94 34 1982 - TOTAL Residential Non-Residential l!. 136 84 52 1,103,353 786,733 5 316,620 2,956,592 6 1,853,239 1,563,373 4 289,866 1983 - TOTAL Residential Nonresidential §. 473,234 117 5,154,209 --0-- 77 6 473,2346 40 4,680,975 338,7557 4,342,220 1984 - TOTAL Residential Nonresidential 11. 973.149 413,537 559,612 118 627,240 194,336 432,904 1,600,389 60 58 1985 - TOTAL Residential Nonresidential li 1,491,953 8 1,301,0649 190,889 126 96 30 2,312,250 290,873 2,021,377 3,804,203 4 5 0 11 6 10 6 446,525 1,722,743 99 2,169,268 1986 - TOTAL li 248,845 355,800 81 8 Residential 1,473,898 90,725 18 Nonresidential 6 SOURCE: City of Ludington Building Department, 1986. NOTE: Residential permits do not indicate actual number of dwelling units constructed; for the total period, 55 permits were issued for a total or 160 new dwelling units, I I l Crosswinds, $2,300,000 2church, $135,000 30ow Chemical Co., $3,864,669 4Pine Way Townhomes, $1,465,273 5Addition to senior citizen apartments adjacent to Baywood Nursing Home (now Village Haus), $505,658 I 6Public, $178,228 7Memorial Medical Center, $4,031,000 8tudington Park Apartments, $1,018,980 9Public, $17,654 TABLE 12 State Equalized Value City of Ludington, 1980 - 1986 ~ Residential Commercial Industrial 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 37,949,300 41,758,946 46,809,615 46,828,900 47,079,100 48,180,300 50,353,800 7,028,700 9,968,000 11,238,100 12,542,100 12,106,400 12,201,300 12,280,800 7,299,100 7,113,148 7,991,600 7,907,300 7,993,200 7,915,400 8,348,400 Source: City of Ludington, 1986. Personal Total Increase over Previous Year 17,212,300 18,551,000 16,578,650 16,786,900 17,569,450 18,910,200 21,197,250 69,489,400 77,391,994 82,617,965 84,065,200 84,748,150 87,207,200 92,180,250 16.32 11.37 6.75 1.75 0.81 2.90 5.70 �. ,1. -1/r••• - ••••• ••• T."!lliLE 13 Population and Housing Characteristics by Census Block Areas City of Ludington, 1980 Neighborhood Population Characteristics 1 2 569 187 32.9 49 8.6 33.8 52.0 917 209 22.8 177 19.3 39.6 53.0 204 3 Census Areas# 6 7 4 5 1,403 341 24.3 206 14. 7 34.5 52.7 442 111 25. 1 87 19.7 35.0 54.5 594 147 24.7 104 17.5 32.3 51.5 903 159 17 .6 320 35.4 50.0 58.8 670 107 16.0 301 44.9 60. l 60.7 401 573 208 269 508 200 138 62 31.0 385 260 125 32.5 547 447 100 18. 3 189 109 80 42.3 236 163 73 30.9 479 189 290 60.5 5.4 5.0 5.'5 5.3 11 Total 13* 12 9 10 229 66 28.8 28 12.2 28.0 47.6 562 159 28.3 80 14.2 26.6 56.9 1, 116 288 25.8 201 18.0 31.4 53.5 913 302 33.1 111 12.2 28.8 53.7 216 120 256 477 364 225 0 206 167 39 18.9 109 30 79 72.5 230 119 111 48.3 462 302 160 34.6 337 239 98 29 . 1 203 147 56 27 . 6 0 5.3 5.4 2.44 2.42 2.71 2.78 2.42 8 POPULATIOtl CHARACTERISTICS Total Population Pop. Less than 18 Years Percent Less than 18 Years Pop. 65 Years and Over Percent 65 Years and Over Median Age (In Years) Percent Female 564 55 173 2 30.7 3.6 79 0.0 14.0 0.0 30.3 23.6 52.6 1.8 8,937 2,251 25.2 1,743 19. 5 34.7 53.9 HOUSING CHARACTERISTICS Total Housing Units Occupied Housing Units Owner Occupied Renter Occupied Percent Renter Occupied Median Number of Rooms Per Unit rersons Per Unit 5.5+ 5.5+ 4.2 4.4 ' 5.5+ 3,821 co 35.6 5.5+ 5.4 2.85 2. 38 2. 55 2.32 2.52 1.87 2.29 2.06 13 37 73 10 0 17 8 11 32 51 37 18 307 0 5 4 3 4 15 1 7 12 11 9 4 75 Median Value of Owner Occupied Units $48,400 $24,800 $34,600 $35,800 $28,000 $29,900 $36,100 $16,300 $28,400 $27,500 $20,500 $19,500 $28,700 Median Value of Renter Occupied Units s Persons in Occupied Housing Units with more than One Person Per Room (overcrowding) Total Units Lacking Complete Plumbing for Exclusive Use 174 s 168 s 167 • Coast Guard Station and/or persons on ships in the harbor. SOURCE: U.S. Census, 1980. s 180 s 151 s 116 s 240 s 127 The census labeled this area "institutional". s 151 s 155 s 138 s 149 s 153 \D �FIGURE XII Pere Marquette Charter Township Future Land Use Map I I I I I LAKE MICHIGAN -i ~r,==,'--"·" I I I I I N Cl T O N PLAN MAP GENERAL DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS LEGEND □ CONSERVATION 1($.:J AGRICULTURE t~,J AGRICULTURE/RESIDENTIAL = ~ ~ - LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL LIGHT INDUSTRIAL (ill GENER.AL INDUSTRIAL WJJ AIRPORT DISTRICT COMMERCIAL STUDY A I - PROPOSED ACCESS . PERE I ' MARQUETTE CHARTER MASON COUNTY, MICHIGAN 69 - -- - - - -~ ~ - - -- ----- - TOWNSHIP �~ 'I APPENDIX C COMMUNITY SURVEY I I I I I I I I I I I 71 �Survey Methodology The City of Ludington Planning Commission conducted a survey of Ludington residents. A separate survey of residents was being conducted by the Ludington Cable TV Advisory Committee. It was decided to randomly select households to survey using a mail-out/mail-back format for both surveys. The sample was selected in such a way as to prevent duplication; no household received both surveys. Sample Selection Each survey was sent to over 501 households randomly distributed throughout the city. Therefore, 1,002 addresses were selected and every other address selected will receive the same survey. Since the 1980 Census identified 3,821 housing units in the City of Ludington, every fourth household was selected from the address listings included in the R. L. Polk City Director. In addition, another 50 households were selected at random to increase the sample size. In addition, copies of the survey were made available in City Hall for any city resident who was not included in the sample but wanted to participate in the survey. These surveys were printed on a different color paper so that they could be distinguished from the surveys that were randomly selected. Results Of the 501 Planning Commission surveys mailed out, 36 were returned as undeliverable. These are attributable to vacant units and errors in the address listings included in the Polk Directory. Of the 465 surveys that presumably reached a household, 203 were returned for a rate of return of 43.7 percent. This should be considered an excellent rate of return. An additional 25 surveys were picked up in City Hall and returned for a total of 228 surveys returned, representing a sample of about 6.0 percent of the total households in the city. The similarity in rates of return for the two surveys is an awe-inspiring indication of the accuracy of the random selection process. Of the 501 Cable TV surveys mailed out, 40 were returned as undeliverable. Of the 461 surveys that reached their destination, 228 were returned, a response rate of 49.S percent, again an excellent return. The results of the Planning Commission survey are shown on the following tables. The Cable TV survey has been tabulated elsewhere. 72 • l- �COMMUNITY SURVEY FORM Dear- Resident: I I I I I I I I I I The Ludington Planning Commlssion is worki.ng to update the City's Master Plan. This Plan is important as lt will be used to guide future growth in our community. In addition, the Downtown Development Authori.ty is seeki.ng directi.on for- future planning in the downtown area. Your input and suggestions are necessary to improve the "quality of life" for Ludington residents. We are requesti.ng your cooperation by answer-ing the following questions: 1. What characteri.stics do you li.ke best about living in Ludington? (Answer only 2) ----- Small Town Atmosphere Educational System Shopping Facilities Proximity to Northern Michigan ___ Proximity to Lake Michigan 2. What are the worst problems facing Ludington? --------3. ___ Other ______________ Lack of Jobs ------- Bad Streets Dilapidated Housing (Answer only 2) Lack of Recreation Facilities Lack of Activities for Youth Traffic Other Lack of Shopping Facilities What type of new residential development is needed most in the Ludington area? (Answer only 1) ----- More Single Family Homes More Apartments for Sr. Citizens - - -More Apartments --- Housing for Low Income Citizens Lakefront Condominium 4. Is there a need for additional recreational facilities in the City? Yes If yes, what types are needed most? Softball Fields --- (Answer only 3) --- Tennis Courts Lakefront Open Space Picnic Areas Marinas --- No ----- Neighborhood Playgrounds Other 73 Boat Launching Ramps Swimming Pools �S. How would you rate the following City services? Good Fair Poor Police Protection Fire Protection Water Services Sewer Service Street Maintenance Snow Removal Park Maintenance Zoning Enforcement 6. With respect to downtown Ludington, please check the one statement that best describes your shopping habits. I usually shop in downtown Ludington at least once per week. I usually shop in downtown Ludington at least once per month. I rarely shop in downtown Ludington. 7. With respect to shopping in the commerical areas east of Ludington, please check the one statement that best describes your shopping habits. --- I usually shop east of town at least once per week. I usually shop east of town at least once per month. --8. I rarely shop east of town. With respect to shopping in other communities, please indicate how frequently you shop: In Scottville times per year In Manistee times per year In Pentwater times per year In Muskegon 9. times per year In Grand Rapids times per year Other times per year I believe that the reason(s) more persons do not shop in downtown Ludington is(are): Inadequate Parking Poor Lighting --- Danger to Pedestrian Traffic Lack of Product Choice Unattractive appearance of the downtown area Uncompetitive Prices --- Other --------------------74 �~ I 10. Please check the one statement that best describes the parking situation in downtown Ludington. I find it easy to find a parking space when I chose to shop downtown. I I I I I I I I I I I do not have an easy time with parking because: Lighting is inadequate I have to park too far from where I want to shop --11. The building entrance closest to the parking area is unattractive or inconvenient The thing I really like about the downtown area is: The friendly service and personal care of the storekeepers The variety of stores and services available Downtown is close to where I live or work The number of parking spaces available Other 12. Does the City need more industrial deve~opment? Yes 13. Should the City use tax incentives to attract new industry to the area? --14. Yes No Please indicate which ward of the City you live in? 1st 15. No 4th 3rd 2nd 5th Don't know Check the statements that best describe your household: Homeowner Married Renter Single, Divorced, or Widowed --- Number of Children in Household Thank you for your cooperation. All answers are strictly confidential and will be used as an indicator of community support for proposals to be developed as a part of the Master Plan. PLEASE MAIL OR RETURN THE SURVEY FORM TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR CITY HALL BY JULY 20, 1985. Sincerely, THE LUDINGTON PLANNING COMMISSION 75 - - -- - �- . - - - - - - - - - WEST MICHIGAN REGIONAL PLANNING Ludington Community Survey SINGLE QUESTION ANALYSIS NOTE: For statlstlcal purposes, some questions have been divided In these results. Where this Is the case, the number of the orlglnal survey question appears beside the question number. QUESTION NO. 1 QUESTION NO. 3 WHAT CHAJl.\crERISTICS 00 YOU LIKE ~ ABOUT LIVING IN LUDINGTON? WHAT TYPE OF NEW RESIDENTIAL DEVEI.OPMENT IS NEEDED ll>ST IN THE LUDINTON AREA? ANS DESCRIPTION RESP Na R1Psp0nse 4 0 NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION RESP Na Response 24 10.:53 SINGLE FAM 49 · 21.49 24.02 2 SENIOR APTS 62 27.19 30.39 3 LAKEFRONT CONDOS 18 7.89 8.82 4 APARTMENTS 24 10.:53 11. 76 :5 LOW INCOME HSG. 80 ::S:5.09 39.22 1. 7:5 0 SMALL TOWN --..J --..J TOT PCT 17::S ~ SHOPPING FACILITIES ::s PROX TO LAKE MICH 4 EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM 7:5.88 12 :5.26 :5.36 164 71.9::S 7::S. 21 :57 2:5.00 2:5.4:5 PROX TO NORTH MICH 18 7.89 8.04 6 OTHER 11 4.82 4.91 228 MEAN NET PCT t/l 77.2::S :5 TOTAL TOT PCT TOTAL 228 MEAN 4.79 3. :54 QUEST ION NO. 2 WHAT ARE THE WORST PROBLEMS FACING LUDINGTON? QUESTION NO. 4 IS THER TOT PCT RESP Na R1Psp0nse 2 0.88 196 85.96 86.7::S 12 :5.26 :5. 31 HOUSING 37 16.2::S 16.37 4 LACK OF SHOPPING 74 ::S2.46 32.74 :5 RECREATION FACIL 13 :5.70 :5. 7:5 6 YOUTH ACTIVITIES 4::S 18.86 19.0::S 7 TRAFFIC 24 10.:53 10.62 8 OTHER 36 1:5. 79 1:5.9::S 0 JOBS 2 3 STREETS TOTAL 22B MEAN A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL RECREATIONAL FACILITIES IN THE CITY? NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION 6.22 ANS DESCRIPTION RESP Na Response 22 9.6:5 117 :51. 32 :56.80 88 38.60 42.72 0 YES 2 NO TOTAL 228 TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT 1.42 ~ ,< ~ t/l ~ t/l �.-:~ . ~-(See survey question 114) QUESTION NO. 5 ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 88 38.b0 SOFTBALL FIELDS 14 b. 14 10.00 2 TENNIS COURTS 20 8.77 14.29 3 MARINAS 34 14.91 24.29 4 PLAYGROUNDS 73 32.02 52.14 5 LAKEFRONT OPEN SPACE 48 21.05 34.29 b PICNIC AREAS 44 19.30 31.43 7 BOAT RAMPS 29 12.72 20.71 8 SWIMMING POOLS 24 10.:53 17. 14 9 OTHER 35 15.35 25.00 0 TOTAL MEAN 228 (See survey question 115) 7 HOii 1/0ut.D YOU RATE FIRE PROTECTIOl/7 WHAT TYPES OF RECREATIONAL FACILITIES ARE NEEDED MOST? TOT PCT QUESTION Nu. NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION 0 RESP No Response TOT PCT NET PCT 3b 1:5. 79 GOOD 17b 77.19 91.67 2 FAIR 15 b.58 7.81 3 POOR l 0.44 0.52 TOTAL MEAN 228 1.v9 11.87 co " HOW 1/0ULD YOU RATE WATER SERVICES? HOW WOULD YOU RATE POLICE PROTECTION? ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 37 lb.23 GOOD 121 53.07 b3.3:5 2 FAIR b4 28.07 33.51 3 POOR b 2.63 3.14 0 TOTAL 228 (See survey quest ion 115) QUESTION NO. 0 (See survey question f/5) QUESTION NO. b TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 42 18.42 GOOD 149 b:5.3:5 80.11 2 FAIR 31 13.b0 1b.b7 3 POOR b 2.b3 3.23 0 1.40 TOTAL 228 TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT 1.23 �- - - (See survey question 115) auEsTION NO. 9 QUESTION No. 12 HOW WOULD YOU RATE SEWER SERVICE? HOii WOULD YOU RATE PARK MAINTENANCE SERVICE? TOT PCT NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 42 18.42 14:5 63.60 77.96 36 1:5.79 19.3:5 5 2.19 2.69 0 GOOD FAIR 2 POOR 3 (See survey ques~ion f/5) MEAN 228 TOTAL ANS DESCRIPTION 0 RESP No Response NET PCT 3:5 1:5. 3:5 GOOD 112 49.12 :58.03 2 FAIR 70 30.70 36.27 3 POOR 11 4.82 :5.70 1 .2:5 TOTAL 228 QUESTION No. (See survey question //5) QUESTION NO. 10 TOT PCT 13 MEAN 1.48 (See survey question //5) HOW WOULD YOU RATE ZONING ENFORCEMENT SERVICE? HOW WOULD YOU RATE STREET MAINTENANCE? ANS DESCR I F'T ION --.J '° ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 39 17. 11 GOOD 72 31.:58 38. 10 2 FAIR 88 38.60 46.:56 3 POOR 29 12.72 1:5.34 0 TOTAL 228 ouESTION NO. 11 TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT 1. 77 (See survey question 115) HOW WOULD YOU RATE SNOW REHOVAL SERVICE? ANS DES CR I PT ION RESP No Response 37 16.23 GOOD 120 :52.63 62.83 2 FAIR 61 26.7:5 31.94 3 POOR 10 4.39 :5.24 0 TOTAL 228 TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT 1.42 0 RESP TOT PCT NET PCT No Response 47 20.61 GOOD 48 21.0:5 20.52 2 FAIR 102 44.74 :56.3:5 3 POOR 31 13.60 17. 13 TOTAL 228 MEAN 1.91 �•.• •• - QUESTION NO. 14 □UESTION No. (See survey question 116) RESP No Response :Sl 0 DOWNTOWN-1/WEEK 2 :s 92 DOWNTOWN-I/MONTH DOWNTOWN-RARELY 59 46 TOTAL 228 TOT PCT NET PCT 25.88 20.18 MEAN ANS DESCRIPTION 0 RESP TOT F'CT NET PCT No Response 65 28.51 46.70 (0) 29 12.72 17.79 29.95 2 (1-3) 83 36.40 :50.92 23 . 35 3 (4-6) 30 13. 16 18.40 1.77 4 (7-12) 10 4.39 6.13 5 <MORE THAN 12) 11 4.82 6.7:5 13.60 40 . 35 (See survey question f/8) HOW OFTEN 00 YOU SHOP IN SCOTTVILLE? HOW OFTEN 00 YOU SHOP IN DOWNTOWN LUDINGTON? ANS DESCRIPTION 16 TOTAL 228 MEAN 2.33 0 co QUESTION No . 15 QUESTION No. 17 (See survey question 117) HCM OFTEN 00 YOU SHOP IN MANISTEE? HOii OFTEN 00 YOU SHOP EAST OF LUDINGTON? TOT PCT NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 32 14.04 EAST-I/WEEK 160 70.18 81.63 0 EAST-I/MONTH 25 10.96 12.76 3 EAST-RARELY 11 4.82 5. 61 228 MEAN ANS DESCRIPTION 0 2 TOTAL (See survey question 118) 1.24 RESP TOT PCT NET PCT No Response 79 34.21 (0) 50 21.93 33.33 2 <1-3) 71 31.14 47.33 3 (4-6) 13 5.70 8.67 4 (7-12) 15 6.58 10.00 5 (MORE THAN 12) l 0.44 0.67 TOTAL 228 MEAN 1.97 �.. -1- -\- -f.. -I-I-I- ., 1111 11111 (See survey question 118) 18 QUEST ION NO. 1111 . . . . - QUEST ION NO. 20 (See survey question 1/8) HOW OITEN DO YOU SHOP IN GRAND RAPIDS? HOW OTTEN DO YOU SHOP IN PENT\lATER? NET PCT TOT PCT ANS OESCR IPT ION RESP No Response 9b 42.11 0 No Response bO 2b,32 (0) 95 41.b7 71.97 1 10) 4:5 19.74 2b,79 2 ( 1-3) 32 14.04 24.24 2 I 1-3) 72 31.5B 42.86 3 (4-bl 2 O.BB 1.:52 3 14-bl 32 14.04 19.05 4 17-12) 2 0.8B 1.:52 4 17-12) 12 :5.2b 7.14 5 (MORE THAN 121 1 0.44 0.7b :5 (NORE THAN 12) 3.07 4. 17 0 TOTAL -- 1. 3:5 MEAN 22B R.E SP ANS DESCRIPTION 7 TOTAL 22B TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT 2.19 00 _. QUESTION NO. 19 ( See SU rvey quest ion 118) QUESTION NO. 21 HOW OITEN DO YOU SHOP ELSEWHERE? HOW OITEND DO YOU SHOP IN MUSKEGON? TOT PCT NET PCT ANS OESCR I PT ION RESP No Response 59 2:5.BB (0) 34 14.91 :20.12 2 (1-3) b5 2B.:51 3B.4b 3 <4 - bl 27 11.B4 1:5,9B 4 (7-12) 33 14.47 19.:53 5 <MORE THAN 12> 10 4.39 :5.92 0 TOTAL (See survey question 1/8) 228 MEAN ANS OESCR I PTI ON 0 2.53 RESP No Response TOT PCT NET PCT 17b 77.19 (0) 18 7.89 34.b2 2 (1-3) 1 :5 b.5B 2B.B5 3 14-6) 11 4.B2 :21. 15 4 17-12) 6 2.b3 11.54 5 <NORE THAN 12) 4 1.75 7.69 TOTAL 22B MEAN 2.40 ) �,. -•• ouEsTioN NO. 22 (See survey question 119) ouEsTtoN No. 24 I BELIEVE THAT THE REASON(S) MORE PERSONS DO NOT SHOP IN DOWNTOWN LUDINGTON IS (ARE): ANS DESCR I PTI ON 0 RESP TOT PCT NET PCT No Response 37 16.23 INADEQUATE PARKING 13 !5.70 6.81 3 1. 32 1.57 (See survey question till) THE THING I Rl!ALLY LIKE ABOtrr THE DOWNTOWN AREA IS: ANS DESCRIPTION 0 RESP TOT PCT NET PCT No Response 18 7.89 FRIENDLY SERVICE 83 36.40 39.:52 2 VARIETY OF STORES 16 7.02 7.62 127 :55.70 60.48 2 POOR LIGHTING 3 DANGER TO PEDS 18 7.89 9.42 3 CLOSE TO HOME OR WK. 4 PRODUCT CHOICE 1!54 67.!54 80.63 4 PLENTY OF PARKING 23 10.09 10.95 !5 APPEARANCE '.2!5 10.96 13.09 5 OTHER 16 7.02 7.62 6 PRICES 128 !56.14 67.02 7 OTHER 27 11.84 14. 14 TOTAL 228 MEAN TOTAL 228 MEAN 3. 18 9.27 N co QUESTION NO. 2:s QUESTION No. 25 (See survey quest ion f/10) WHIOI BEST DESCaIBES THE PARKING SITUATION IN DOWNTOWN LUDINGTON? TOT PCT NET PCT ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 1 !5 6.58 191 83. 77 89.67 0 EASY NOT EASY-LIGHTING 3 1. 32 1. 41 3 NOT EASY-TOO FAR 41 17.98 19.25 4 NOT EASY-BAO ENTR. 21 9.21 9.86 TOTAL 228 MEAN ANS DESCRIPTION RESP No Response 6 2.63 206 90.35 92.79 16 7.02 7.21 0 2 l. 90 (See survey question f/12) DOES THE CITY NEED MORE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT? YES 2 NO TOTAL 228 TOT PCT MEAN NET PCT 1.07 �.. .. - -- - - I- - ... - - - - - .. QUESTION No. 20 QUESTION NO. 28 (See survey question f/13) RESP No Response 0 YES NO 2 TOTAL TOT PCT ANS DESCRIPTION NET PCT 0 TOT PCT NET PCT cl•i , 1.32 181 79.39 80.44 32 14.04 14.22 149 o:s. 3:5 00.22 SINGLE, ETC. oO 20.32 20.07 5 0 CHILDREN 06 28.95 29.33 b .1 CHILD 27 11.84 12.00 7 2 CHILDREN 3:5 15.35 1 :s. :so 8 3+ CHILDREN 23 10.09 10.22 178 78.07 83.18 3:5 1:5. 3:5 10.30 2 RENTER 1.lo 3 MARRIED 4 HOMEOWNER (X) w TOTAL QUESTION No. 27 ( See survey quest ion //14) TOT PCT NET PCT No Response 20 8.77 1ST 30 13. lo 14.42 2 2ND 4o 20.18 22.12 3 3RD 28 12.28 13.40 4 4TH 25 10.90 12.02 5 5TH 44 19.30 21. 1:5 b DON'T KNOW 35 15.35 lo.83 TOTAL 228 ANS DESCRIPTION 0 WHITE 2 RESP No Respons• 8.24 BLUE 3.~4 TOT PCT NET PCT J 0.,44 (MAILED> 2(•2 88.60 88.9'1 (PICKED UP) 2:5 10.96 11. 01 TOTAL MEAN MEAN COLOR OF PAPER RESP 0 228 QUESTION NO. 29 PLEASE INDICATE WHICH WARD OF TIIE CITY YOU LIVE IN? ANS DESCRIPTION , . :?ZB . 1 . (See survey question f/15) 3 o.14 MEAN RESP No Response 14 228 , . DESCRIBE YOUR HOUSEHOLD: SHOULD THE CITY USE TAX INCENTIVES TO ATTRACT NEW INDUSTRY TO THE AREA? ANS DESCRIPTION . . MEAN I. 11 �,. CITY OF LUDINGTON PLAN COMPREHENSIVE !~- ~ \~~ ',, ' G LINCOLN LAKE \l-, \, I lj I I •••. WlJ' [Ii 1:: :!:~:~1~1r~1 i 1:: rn 111 __ mii~! 1: t m~ IDID@II 1:111111 ~l:iflldii!iliii IiiMIii.ii lllilllii 111: ffllNLJ It/~ tm8188 EB ; 1111,! !; !~1i;~ t:}~1!111,:~;; i!i\ll b ' ::\f n, . . ;_r~ t -~ ti _;: w////®Ii~ · i....-~./~~~i~~i~t~~~~~~~~~v\~ t)Il [\\J\\\@t fE+%a // W///§~ , ////,"o"o"oWo"o"o ❖❖• :: .:::::::::: ~}{~ :~:~:~=~~3 ·.-::.~ 1;){~~~ r- 11 .... ... .... : .:~ 1 ' ; ~:~ ;z,::r. 1:::::,:1 1:mrn k'\,vou,,uoouoououc i: \;,:.;:;.:,:-:•:;:;:;:f:: '••:;:;:;:;:J;. : C>'• C<• r1;; r::::=:= :::1::::: tJ::::~$!:1:1:1:i --:r. - ~ C") G) b < ~ MJl1mmq :~~t r Llil lftH~~/}~::TI tillt ,.·.·.·.·.·.· · · · · ·•:❖-.-,,,,nJ°'i· E] [;!'.:::l r::1;:,;i1:::,;;;::::;1 ii:\\i,::::1=1 [~~~~r,;rr:;,~:l~ , v' .• .\ ~- " ,,.. ".,._ ">) ' z I -, ~ . ) r ~ ; ~ ~ _. ·. ~-~ I'l'\ •-. ..: - \: . - \ ':. ~~' ~ ~ -:., oUV o .;;.V,,; o_oiJo0 o - - - \ V .J V • • V O 0 \ 1 1 - -- . ]jl\I\i\:::::::Iii '· '-... - - ·-- I I•. , ~".;},.V ":-t-;•:•.•.•, . ....•.•, . V:. ·, ...• .. ' ,.,:~!,:-?~;?:'J a:;:} FUTURE LAND USE PLAN ~ ~ '[ill:::::{. ffiill/:: ····;i) @·········· ·.• .•,•,· •.•.•,•,•, ..·.······ ·.·.·..· lli§=::;:::.. ····· @ill1filw mill I GENERAL RESIDENTIAL ·1i"••··· ::=•:•• ::, ~ RESIDENTIAL / RECREATIONAL / OFFICE DEVELOPMENT ooi::.··· ·•·•••·••• .·.·.·•:• ···· Em·· ····•;:J w······· ;::::::::: §~:I:: :::::::::! ITTI~ I~ IT ~ ~ o~o~~- ~ Mlffil lliiru fu ~o=fffffn::. ~ ....... ~~ Ifill] OOJIErn rm [I ";;,;:i::: • • PUBLIC, INSTITUTIONAL AND RECREATIONAL ~~<:J NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPPING U:::H LOW INTENSITY COMMERCIAL ~ GENERAL COMMERCIAL ~ - GATEWAY/ CITY ENTRANCE S CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT ~ WATERFRONT / MARINE loo.ffil LIMITED INDUSTRIAL ~ GENERAL INDUSTRIAL NOTE: The numbers on tho map correspond to a narrative description of the proposed uses found In the Development Trends and Future Land Use section of the Compre hens lve Plan . . .. l --~ -· I•==~::~ ?.•~.,-• <..__, ~ I _______, _,-:... M1C!1IG AN - l Dt= PA""l T"ME::NT Of -, v ..::p, a - ()(' , RAN S PO~ TAT I ON I ?':16 i � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Ludington_Comprehensive-Plan_1987 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ludington Planning Commission, City of Ludington, Mason County, Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987 Title A name given to the resource Ludington Comprehensive Plan Description An account of the resource The Ludington Comprehensive Plan was prepared by the Ludington Planning Commission with assistance from the West Michigan Regional Planning Commission in 1987. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource West Michigan Regional Planning Commission (consultant) Subject The topic of the resource Comprehensive plan publications Ludington (Mich.) Mason County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ca1f7d9760c8ec79aa356e89d48f5d7.pdf 44b65978fcaef6a0dab047b2412da46a PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Vita Christi [Dutch]. Tboeck vanden leven Jhesu Christi [folium 43] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_043Ludolphus1487 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ludolf, von Sachsen, ca. 1300-1377 or 8 Description An account of the resource One leaf of Vita Christi (Tboeck vanden leven Jhesu Christi) by Ludolphus De Saxonia. Printed in Antwerp by Gerard Leeu on November 3, 1487. Illustrated with red rubricated initials. [GW M19261; ISTC il00353000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Antwerp: Gerard Leeu Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Ludolf, von Sachsen, ca. 1300-1377 or 8 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1487 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource nl https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f41b739477588872d2d0e1f05288c9f1.pdf 56a086a73e81d0288bc1628322cae080 PDF Text Text Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Estevan Luevano Interview Interviewed by Andrew Schlewitz June 18, 2016 Transcript AS: Alright, this is Andrew Schlewitz, and I'm here today with Estevan Luevano in the Hart Public Library in Hart, Michigan, on the eighteenth of June 2016. This oral history is being collected as part of the Growing Community Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. So, thanks, Estevan, for taking the time to be interviewed. EL: No problem. AS: So, can you, for the record, say your full name and then spell it? EL: Okay, my name is Estevan Luevano. It is spelled E-s-t-e-v-a-n, Luevano L-u-e-v-a-n-o. AS: Okay, do any of those letters have accents? EL: No. AS: No, you don't use it. So where were you born? 1 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EL: I was born in San Juan, Texas. AS: San Juan, Texas. Okay and what county is that in Texas? EL: That's Hidalgo County. AS: Hidalgo, okay. Is that where you grew up as well? EL: Yeah, part of my life, yes. AS: Okay, so where did you go from there then? You said part of my life. EL: Yep, we're migrants. We traveled ever since I remember. We used to travel from Texas to Michigan and back to Texas. Then one year we traveled from Texas to Michigan to Iowa, Iowa to Texas. AS: Wow. Can you remember that year? EL: Uh, no, I was like maybe ten, eleven years old. AS: When were you born? EL: I was born in nineteen sixty-seven. AS: Okay, how many people are in your family? EL: It’s my dad, my mom, three brothers, and two sisters and me. Eight of us. AS: Were you in the middle there? EL: I'm the oldest of the boys… AS: The oldest of the boys. And your two sisters then? EL: My sisters… one of my sisters is the oldest, then me, then my brothers, then my little sister. AS: Okay. Did you have other family around you? EL: Yes. We came up from Texas with my grandpa and my uncles and one of my uncles came from Florida down here. They went to Florida instead of Texas. AS: Okay, where are your parents from? EL: My parents are from Texas as well. AS: Okay, so would you say you're like third or fourth generation Chicano? EL: I don't know because my grandpa and grandma were from Texas, too. AS: Okay, so you've been there a long time? EL: Yes. AS: Many generations. EL: Yes. 2 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department AS: What are your family members' names, like your father and mother? Siblings? EL: My father is Hilario “G” Guadalupe Luevano. And my mother is [?] Luevano. AS: Okay and then your siblings? EL: My older sister is... her real name right now is Irman Holsa [?]. AS: Okay. EL: And then my brother, Hilario Guadalupe Luevano Junior, and then my other brothers, Sylvester Luevano and then Hector Luevano, and then my little sister, Elise [?] Luevano. AS: Okay. What was your grandpa's name? EL: My grandpa's name was Tereso [?]. AS: Tereso [?]. And what are your most vivid or starkest, clearest memories of childhood? EL: Well, my grandfather used to have a business, semi business. AS: Oh. EL: A truck driving company. It was Luevano and Sons. And that's the reason he decided to migrate this way, because he used to do all of the oranges and fruits in Texas. Well, somebody told him that over here they had pickles and cherries and, you know, all that kind of stuff, too. So, he decided to come over here to try it out and he brought two semis and one two-ton truck with them. And then they liked it, so they started coming up here. AS: Okay. EL: And then they worked for Chase Farms and Miles Chase asked him if they knew any more people they can work with, you know, work in the fields for them. So, he started asking people around over there and started bringing people in and people started coming with my grandpa because there were people they would charge people to bring him over here. My grandpa never charged nobody. He said, do you want to come in here? Well, I don't think my truck and my car make it here so we don't make it. We stop and fix it because my uncles were mechanics, my dad, my uncle Greg, everybody's a mechanic. So, he said, “if you break down the road, we stop and fix it or we put it on top of the semi. AS: Did that ever happen? EL: Oh yeah, sometimes we stopped and fixed the car and, you know, at the rest area. We used to come from Texas… this over here. It's kind of funny because I go to Texas and I can make it in thirty-six hours with, you know, with sleep and stuff. Or if I don't want to sleep, you know, straight at twenty-four hours or whatever, but we used to last four days to get here because that's how many people were in the back, the two semis were in front and then the two-ton truck, then all the cars behind it. AS: So, how many people would go? I imagine it started out with a few. And then by the end…? EL: By the end, there was like fifteen cars behind the trucks. AS: Wow. 3 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EL: That's how many people would come with my grandpa. And the reason why, because, you know, other people would charge people to bring them over here. And my grandpa said, as long as, you know, you can make it over, just come behind me… AS: Follow me. EL: ...follow me. And my grandfather stayed in the back and then somebody broke down and he, you know, passed all the semis and go off the road and the semi driver, you know, my uncle knew when my grandfather passed him, that something happened. So, they’d all stop and see what happened. And then the semis would go to a truck stop and the rest of them are going to the rest area and the trucks will get fuel and stuff and wait for the people, you know, for all the other people to get there. AS: So, you always stuck together. EL: Oh yeah. Whenever my grandfather led and he let nobody, you know, break down; my dad and my uncles would fix it. You know, if they couldn’t fix it, they’d find somewhere to put it on top of one of those semis. And then they would bring it to Michigan and then drop it and then they'd fix it here, you know. But if they could fix it on the road, they would fix it on the road. AS: What time of year did you leave for Michigan? EL: We were here just for… we’d get here and we never picked asparagus. We always picked just strawberries, cherries and pickles, and we never picked apples. And then we would take off because the trucks had to be there for the orange season and all that stuff for down in Texas. And one year, after the pickle season, we went to Iowa. AS: What did you do in Iowa? EL: Well, you know, we didn’t take the semis out there, you know; we didn’t take the trucks. The trucks decided to stay that year. All the trucks stayed here and my uncle ran them here. You know, Chase [?] had a lot of, you know, he said, “you buy a freezer, you know, refrigerator trailer. You’ve got work all year round.” So that's when my uncle, Denny [?], and my uncle, Greg [?], decided to stay here and run the trucks and bought a refrigerator trailer for the truck for one of them. He started driving for a trade farm, and then my dad would come over here and drive a truck and we would go out in the fields. My dad would go drive the truck for my uncle or for my grandfather. AS: So, your uncle settled here? EL: My uncle settled here. AS: Okay. Have you settled here? EL: We settled here in nineteen eighty-one. My dad decided, you know, at first, we stayed two years in Texas because of school. He knew we weren’t getting a real good, you know, education because we're going back and forth with him. Matter of fact, well I’m going to say it anyways. I don't know how to read real good or spell real because of that. Because back then, like, the teacher didn't care, you know, they just passed you. AS: Oh, really? EL: Yep. 4 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department AS: What's that called? Social promotion or something like that. EL: They just wanted… because you're a migrant and they just want you to be at the school at that day for the count. AS: For the county, yeah. EL: And, you know, when I grew up, I grew up after I got out of school, I worked, you know, and I did my homework when I got home, but, you know, didn't study very much. AS: Yeah, plus your year was chopped up. EL: Yeah, and then we stayed there two years and then my dad was in Texas and then come over here and then my dad had a good job, but then he started having problems with their… because he was a good truck driver. So, the company he was driving for bought a brand-new truck and trailer and gave it to him and the people that were there, they had more years there, kind of got mad because he got the brand-new semi. So, they started doing stuff to the truck. Then my dad had a nervous breakdown. And then my Uncle Phil said, “I don't know what you're doing over here. There's trucks over here you can drive.” So, my dad decided, “well, I'm going to go over there for vacation” for a couple of, you know, the doctor told him to take a couple months of vacation. So, he took three months of vacation. We came up here and we worked in the fields and he drove a truck for my uncle. And then that was in 1981 when he decided to stay here. So, I've been here since [nineteen] eighty-one. I graduated in [nineteen] eightysix... AS: Okay, from Hart High School? EL: Nope. From Walkerville High School. AS: Walkerville, okay. So, the first time you came up here, what did you think? EL: Well, the first time we came up here, I was too little to remember, but when we were younger, you know, nine, ten years old, we used to go help my mom, you know, in the pickles, you know, to pick pickles and stuff. We were not working. We just out there in the fields, you know, playing around. But at the age of thirteen, that's when we started picking pickles and stuff, you know, in the young age and ever since then, till I graduated. You know, since thirteen until I graduated. And then during the wintertime, we lived so close to the factory at Chase’s that I would get home and Miles would pick me up and say, “hey, do you want to work?” He picked me up and would take me. He’s the one that showed me how to drive a forklift. I never knew how to. You know, I was fourteen years old and he showed me how to drive a forklift. And then he would pick me up every time and I would drive a forklift. Okay, so I'd be unloading trucks out in the skill building and stuff. AS: So, like taking out the pallets and stuff? EL: Yep. AS: So, you picked and you drove a forklift. Did you have any other jobs? EL: Yes, well, I took the vocational center. I went to the vocational center and graduated high school. And I took diesel there because my uncle had trucks and my dad. And then from there, you know, Miles wanted me to drive trucks, you know. So, then my uncle said my dad decided to sell everything and I said, “why are you selling everything? I want to drive the truck.” And my uncle says, “you want to drive 5 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department the truck for real? I'll set you up with somebody, my brother out of Hesperia and you can drive a truck for me. If you like it, we’ll buy a brand-new truck.” But the reason that my uncle sold everything is because my dad couldn't drive anymore. He had an accident with a semi. He had an accident in a vehicle and he was not the driver. It was my brother driving. And somebody t-boned him and didn't stop at the stop sign and my dad got hurt pretty bad. Matter of fact, he's got some of his nerves are pinched, some of his vertebrae are pinching his nerves in his neck. But they want to do surgery because he's allergic to the anesthetic, he has diabetes, and he's got a heart murmur. AS: Oh, no. EL: So they told him that no, they won’t operate on him. He’s losing feeling on his arm and that's the arm that he's shifted gears and he says, you know, “I don't want to drive like that because I might have an accident and I don't want to kill somebody in an accident.” So, he stopped driving. AS: So, what year then did you start to drive the truck? EL: At an early age because my uncle and my dad showed us how to move the truck where my dad parked it, so we could put fuel in it. So, I was like sixteen, seventeen years old. I can move it, back it up, and that's it, because that's all he let us do. [Laughter] But, you know, and Miles, when I graduated, I was nineteen, he said, “hey, I want you to get in that truck and go to Paul’s” - his son’s place. So I drove it all the way to Paul’s and Paul would be waiting there for me and he said, “okay, now back it up here.” So, I’d back it up and I thought I was going to get something. I would back it up there and he’d say, “you did good. Now go back.” And it was about eight or ten miles away from the plant, you know. AS: So, they are like testing you? EL: Yeah, they were, you know, so I would drive it back. And then a friend of mine, his dad is Jerry Frick, they own Walkerville Well Drilling, and they knew I graduated from the vocational center for a diesel mechanic. And one day they came over there to Chase and Jerry offered me a job working on the trucks. And I couldn’t let that go because at that time, I was only getting like five-fifty an hour at Chase Farms. And when Jerry showed up, he says, “I'll pay you ten dollars an hour at my place.” And I couldn't refuse from five-fifty to ten dollars an hour. AS: Sure. EL: So, I said, “well, let me give Michael two weeks’ notice before I move over there.” He said, “I'll let you do that.” When I went and talked to Miles, Miles wasn’t here. He was in Belize because they were trying to buy land over there, too, for producing over there... I don't know what. And I told Michael, “Miles isn’t here, but I'm talking to you. I would like a raise because all the forklift drivers - I've been here more than the forklift drivers - and I'm working at the Brown garage, working on trucks, working on this mechanical work on the forklift and stuff like that. And I'm only getting five-fifty [dollars an hour]. I know they're getting eight, eight-fifty an hour. I would like to go up to eight ninety-five an hour.” And he said, “well, I just gave you a raise. Yeah, a twenty-five-cent raise.” But them guys had been here less than I'd been here and they’re getting paid more money. And he said, “well, I already give you a raise.” I said, “well, I'm going to give you a two-week’s notice.” He said, “well, you don't have to. You can leave right now if you want to. AS: Wow. 6 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EL: I think he thought that I was kidding. I wasn't. And I said, “okay, Friday will be my last day.” And Friday was the next day; that happened on a Thursday. So, I loaded up my toolbox and my tools on my truck. And that Friday he said, “are you leaving?” And I said, “you told me I could go. I’ll see you later.” And then I started working for Walkerville Well Drilling on that Monday, I started on Monday. And then when Miles came back from Belize, he went and ordered a pipe cutter and I'm the only one in the shop that he asked me, you know, how to use the pipe cutter and stuff. And I said, “yeah, I used it over there at Chase, you know, I know how to use it.” Okay, come here, link this link and Miles was coming to pick it up. So, when he came and picked it up, they called me in the shop, “hey, I put it in his trunk.” So, I went and put it in his trunk. He was waiting for me outside and said, “how come you couldn’t wait for me to get back?” I said, “because I talked to Michael and Michael said he would not give me a raise.” He said, “well, if I was here, I would give you a raise. I would give you what you wanted, but come back and I'll give you what you wanted.” I said, “well, they’re paying me more money here than what I wanted over there. They’re paying me ten dollars an hour here.” And he said, “well, I can't pay you that much, but I would like you to come back.” And I said, “well, I can’t. I already got obligated to work here.” So, I stayed there for five years with Walkerville Well Drilling, and then my friend, you know, he knew I was a mechanic and stuff, he said, “hey, they’re hiring mechanics over here.” I said, “where?” He says, “North American Factories in Whitehall [?].” I said, “I got a good job getting paid ten dollars an hour.” He said they paid fifteen over here. So, the only way I could make an application there is to go to Michigan Works and they had a test for me to do and stuff. And I did that and I didn't think they were going to call me because I didn't. I didn't think I did good on the test. I must have done good on the test because they called me for a job interview. I went over there for the job interview and he asked me why I wanted to quit Walkerville Well Drilling. And I said, “well, it’s more money. I've been there five years and I never got a raise, you know?” And he says, “well, if you get hired in here, it'll be twelve ninety-five. And then I have two years or less than that and if they think that you learn everything and you can get top raises. Fifteen ninety-five.” And I said okay. “We’ve got to start you from the very beginning, we just can't throw you in as a mechanic.” I said, “okay, and how much does that pay?” Fifteen ninety-five, mechanics get paid more than that.” So, I said, “well, if mechanics get paid more than that, I should start working here and maybe I can make it into a mechanic.” So, I did the interview, I didn't think they were going to hire me and they called me. They said, “I want you to come to work Monday.” And that was on Wednesday. So, on Wednesday morning, they called me Wednesday morning before I went to the other job and I told Jerry, you know, “I got a job offer at this other place.” And he said, “well, I don't want you to leave, so we can talk about what they're going to pay me.” And he said, “I can't do that.” And I said, “well, Friday will be my last day.” So, Friday was my last day. And I wanted to give him a two-week notice, but the other job wanted me on Monday and I couldn't lose that opportunity and I'm glad I didn’t. I've been in my job for twenty-one years and I'm getting paid twenty-four sixty an hour as a mechanic. AS: As a mechanic. How long did it take you to become a mechanic there? EL: It took me five years to become a mechanic, but I'm glad I did it, because after I became a mechanic, I became a Journeyman and they sent me to school for welding, for everything they wanted me to go to school for. You know, I struggled at school because, you know, my spelling wasn't very good and my reading wasn't very good. But I still passed the classes and I got my certificate for the Labor Board, and 7 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department I'm a Journeyman and I can work on equipment - heavy, heavy machinery. And it took me a while to come to days, but I'm on the day shift. I'm third in seniority in maintenance. And when my group leader ain’t there, I’m the group leader. AS: So, it was a good move? EL: It was a good move, yes. AS: Where do you live now? EL: I live in Hesperia. AS: In Hesperia, okay. EL: I moved from Walkerville to Hesperia in [nineteen] ninety-two when I bought my first place. And I wasn't married, so, you know, a single white trailer house with a garage was okay. And then later on, you know, I got married. AS: When did you get married? EL: I got married twice. AS: Okay. EL: First I got married and it didn't work out. It lasted not even a year. We got a divorce. And then a couple of months later, I met my wife and we starting going out. She's from Mexico. She's from… where do you call it? She's from Mexico and she's from Oaxaca, Mexico. AS: Oaxaca? EL: Yeah, and we started going out. And at first, she came over here with her sister from Houston and her sisters came over here with her boyfriend and they came from Houston, but he had brothers in Washington. His family was in Washington. They stayed here for two years. I went out with my wife, went out with her for a year and his brothers told them to move to Washington and they were going to move to Washington. And I didn't know what to do because she was going to leave. So, at that time, I didn't know if I should propose to her because I had just gone through a divorce a year ago, you know, and stuff like that. I didn't want to go through it again. But I'm glad I told her not to leave [laughter] because we've been married ten years. AS: Do you have children? EL: Yes, well, first my little daughter was born and then we lost one. She had a miscarriage and she called me in the bathroom; I went over there and I'm like, wow, I never seen anything like it. It came out like a little egg, like it was still in the pouch, it came out. And he was about an inch and a half long, the baby. And you can see his little feet, little arms like, you know, in the fetal position. But he didn't have his face. No eyes, no nothing like, you know, like it was just starting to develop. [?]: Sorry to interrupt, guys, but I just got a phone call. Make sure you get your picture taken across at the community center before you leave. I didn’t want anyone to forget. AS: Alright, thank you. 8 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EL: And seeing that, you know, upset me a little bit. AS: Sure. EL: And upset my wife a little bit, but, you know. They told us he was going to live because two days before that, she started bleeding and we went to the hospital. And they told us that the baby was not in the... where it’s supposed to be. It was in the tube. It was growing in the tube. And that's how come it only grew that much because, you know, that's how far it could grow in the tube and then it decided to... she started to have labor pains that day and she didn't know why. But that's why, because the baby was coming out. But, you know, we tried again and we're blessed with Stellan [?] Jr. and he's five now. AS: Okay, and what's the first child's name? EL: My first child is Yasmine [?] Marie Luevano. AS: It's my granddaughter's name, too. EL: And my son is Estevan Luevano, Jr. And then my wife wanted another one, so we tried and she couldn’t. We didn’t know why she couldn’t get pregnant. So, we went to the doctor and the doctor told her the monthly cycles are lasting too long. That's how come you can't get pregnant. They should last only five days. And my wife was, well, they were lasting like fifteen, twenty days. So, they told her that the best thing they can do, you know, for her for that. And then they found out that her gallbladder was bad, too. So, they said, “well, we can go in there and take your gallbladder out and then go in there and burn the blood cells that make you, you know, go to her monthly cycle.” And my wife said, “well, we wanted to have another baby, but we couldn’t have one.” And they said, “I don't think you can have another baby.” Okay, so we made the appointment in two months to go do surgery because they told us she couldn’t get pregnant. The day of the surgery, we walked in the hospital and [?] stayed with the kids, and they put everything… they started everything, put in her I.V. on and they didn't start, you know, putting her to sleep because the doctor was still in surgery for another patient. So, you know, they just prepped her up to get her ready. She was already hooked up to everything. But they had to check her blood and check her hearing before the surgery. Then the lady that put her to sleep came in there and said, “hey, I need to talk to one of you guys outside.” So, the head nurse went outside and talked to her and she came back in there and started unhooking everything. I'm like, “What? What are you doing?” “Well, the surgery isn’t going to happen today.” I said, “why?” He said, “your doctor is going to be here to tell you why.” Then she went outside and they told her, yeah, you can tell them why. So, she came in and said, “well, they told us that we can tell you why - she's pregnant.” What do you mean she’s pregnant? The Doctor told her she couldn’t get pregnant. “Well, she's pregnant. We don't know how long, but she's pregnant.” AS: Wow. EL: And then that's when my son was born - the other one. And so, you know, it was a blessing of God, so I name him Isaiah Christian Luevano. So, he's one and a half right now. AS: He's one and a half. So, you have Yasmine, who's how old now? EL: Yasmine is nine. 9 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department AS: Nine. And Estevan Junior is five. EL: Five. AS: And then Isaiah is one and a half. EL: One and a half. And we would have had another one between Junior and, you know, only two years apart, not even, you know, but, you know, at that time it didn't happen. But we’re glad with the other two. My son was a miracle. That's what the doctor said, when the doctor showed up, actually told me she couldn't get pregnant. He said, “it must be that God wanted you to have another one.” So, he says surgery is not going to happen today until the baby's born and then you've got to wait three months before we can do surgery. So that's what happened. The baby was born and after three months my wife had surgery. AS: What's your wife's name? EL: Marguerita [?]. AS: Marguerita [?]... EL: Her real name or her? AS: Yeah, her real name or prior to getting married to you. EL: Her name is Marguerita [?] Contaros [?]. AS: So, she's from Oaxaca, but she's not from an indigenous group. EL: What’s that? AS: She's not from [spanish language]? EL: What do you mean? AS: So, in Oaxaca, there are a lot of [American] Indians. I don't know if she was… EL: I don't know if she is. She looks and, you know, my friends told me that because he went to the ruins up in Oaxaca, one of my friends at work. And when she met my wife, she said, “she looks like the Indians from over there. Is she Indian?” I said, “I don't know - we don't talk about that.” I know she lived in a small town, you know, and you can see mountains and hills there. But I don't know if she’s Indian or not. I haven’t even asked her that question. But, you know, and she said... one time I did ask her...yeah, I remember that because my friend told me and I asked her and she said no, but she don't know if her grandfather or her relatives are or not. But she said no. But to me, she said, “I don't know.” [Laughter] AS: Okay. Other people that you've said you ran into from Oaxaca, have you… are the other Latinos or Latinas, are they mostly from Mexico or have you run into Guatemalans or other Tejanos up here? EL: Well, when I used to come, you know, I don't know where they're from. I used to go to the dances, they had Spanish dances here a lot. I’d just go to dance and I never asked girls where they're from and stuff. I just knew that were you know, they talk Spanish and some of them talk English. I never asked them. AS: Okay. 10 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EL: All the people that I meet now, because I'm married to my wife, they're all from Oaxaca and they're all from her town and that's where we go visit, you know, some other times. Because they're the people that are still in Michigan that know her because, you know, they migrate in the state here and they’re from Oaxaca. They live in Shelby, some live in Hart, some live in Ferry and stuff. And they know my wife because they know my mother-in-law and stuff. And they all know each other because they’re from the same town. AS: Interesting. EL: You guys can take… I’ll show you some pictures of my father-in-law and mother-in-law from Mexico in their hometown. AS: So, they still live in Oaxaca? EL: Yes, my father-in-law and mother-in-law still live in Oaxaca. And her sisters, all her sisters and her brothers - they’re from Oaxaca. But we go visit them, not every year, but every other year, you know. Like one year, two years ago, my sister-in-law called her and said, “I'm getting married.” From Washington, the one that was living here with her, that she lived with her for two years here and “I'm getting married, I want to be here to be my maid of honor. And I want my other sister to be here for, you know, further, you know, to stand up in the wedding. And I want you guys' husbands to be the groomsmen.” And I'm like, “we should go.” We start planning, you know, because she told us there was like three years before she was going to get married. So, I was saving money and stuff. And then that year, my wife was pregnant. She goes, “we need a bigger house.” So, we started looking for a bigger house and we found that the same year we went to Washington. Well, she says, “we can’t buy the house and go to Washington.” And I said, “don't worry about it.” I had money saved up just to go to Washington, but we also had money saved up to buy a house. And the good thing about it is that because I had a single-wide and there was a lot of foreclosures out there, the government had a thing that you can buy a house with no money down. And I didn't think I was going to fall into that because we had the house. But the lender says, “you fall into that because that ain’t a house. You got a title with that trailer house, right?” And I said, “yeah, I’ve got a title.” It ain’t a house; you need a deed to have a house, not a title. So, he told me, “take pictures of the house, take pictures of the rooms, and write me a letter why you need a bigger house.” Because there's only two bedrooms and we had two kids already and one on the way. So, I told my sister that she can do that for me. So, she wrote me a letter why and everything, and I took the letter to him and signed it. And then, I took the title of the trailer house - what year it was and stuff - and I passed the application. He says, “you can get any house. No matter what, no money down.” You know, no money down, no closing cost, nothing. And that’s how come we got the house. And then we said, “well, we can’t go to Washington.” And I reserved plane tickets because we were going to fly and then she canceled them. You know, she [?] and I said, “yeah, we do. We’ve got this money. I'm going to resort [?], you know, resort it with a credit card and we pay it, you know, when we get our income taxes. “No, no, no, no.” So, I went to work and she called the company and canceled the flight. When I got home, she goes, “I canceled the flight.” Why you do that? “Because it's too much money, we're not going. I called my sister and we're not going.” So, I called her sister and said we're going. So, she said, “I'm going to expect you here.” And I said, “yep, we’ll be there. She canceled the tickets, but I'm going to drive.” It’d be cheaper for me to drive. So, I didn't have them, I had two more days left for vacation, so I took them two. We already had the vacation to go to Washington, but if I was going to fly, not drive. 11 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department AS: Right. EL: So, I had two more days of vacation left that I could schedule. And I took them and I left and I took them two days and they gave them to me. And there was two more days so we had to leave. I told the wife, “you better pack.” She goes, “why?” I said, “we're going.” She said, “no, we’re not!” We’re going. I said that “your sister wants you over there and all your family, all your sisters from Houston are going to be there, your brother from Houston, their brothers from Houston. It's like a family get-together. I guess your family from Oaxaca can’t be there. You can't see your family over there because you can't go to Mexico, but you can see your family that live here.” And how long has it been that we haven't gone to Texas? I said, “for three years. I haven’t seen my brother and sister for three years. How long have you not seen your sisters in Washington?” “For five, seven years,” she said. We're going! And she said, “no, we’re not.” Yes, we are - you better pack. I already took the two days that it's going to take to get there on the road off. And I says, “we’re leaving, my day starts this day, we’re leaving… after I get out of work, we leave on that day. I get home at four o'clock, we're leaving at four o'clock.” AS: So, the whole family went? EL: She didn't believe me, she packed and everything. And we got there and she said, “where are we going to leave the dogs?” I said, “don't worry, I got all my sisters and my little niece is going to take care of them. I already talked to her.” “No, we’re not going.” So, we started putting everything in the truck, we took the dogs over there to my sister's and we left and when we were there, she was so happy to be there and she said, “well, I told my sister not to buy the dress.” And I said, “well, we can buy one on the way over there. Just tell her to send you what color.” And she didn't find the same color that, you know, almost, but she stood up in the wedding. And I think she had a good time with her because then she hadn’t seen her aunt for fifteen years. She saw her aunt because her aunt is over there in Portland, Oregon and it's only two hours from Irvington. AS: I was going to ask, yeah, where in Washington? I grew up in Oregon, spent a lot of time in Washington state. EL: You know where Portland, Oregon... you know, Arlington. Arlington is on Highway-Five. AS: Just up north then of…? EL: Yeah, it’s over there by Port Washington [?]. AS: So, below Tacoma? EL: It’s called Arlington. It's got like a port, like the ships come in there and it's like, I don't know, like a port for ships and stuff because the companies are over there, they definitely like fish. So, they're fishing like a fishing factory. They’ve got fish factories, they got single factories. And that's the only thing they’ve got there: saw mills and stuff at that place. But we went over there and we had a lot of fun and all of them took days off from work. And we all, for two days, we went to Portland, Oregon, to her aunt's house. And then from there we went... man, that's beautiful. Portland, Oregon is beautiful. She took us to… her cousin took us to a rose garden over there. AS: Oh, the rose gardens, yeah. EL: The rose garden is beautiful. It's just beautiful. 12 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department AS: What time of year? I'm sorry. EL: This time right here. Right now. AS: In June? EL: We left in June and we had to be over there by June the eighth. And we left here on June the fourth after work or June the fifth after work because my wife didn't think we were going to make it. We got there on June the eighth, so it was a Saturday, I think it was. Yeah, June the eighth, I think it was. And we got there at three o'clock in the morning in Washington that day that my sister was getting married. And she said, [?], so we slept. And then I couldn't sleep because there was a whole bunch of racket upstairs, you know, they had… we stayed at my sister-in-law’s, but, my sister-in-law's husband, her future husband, brought Mariachis upstairs when they were singing and they were, you know, and I told my wife, “what is going on upstairs?” Because we were in the basement, sleeping in the basement. Well, my future brother-in-law brought Mariachis because that's what they do in Mexico. When somebody gets married, the groom brings chocolate and donuts to the wife's parents house. But my parents are not here, so they brought it here to my sisters. I went upstairs. They had homemade chocolate, you know, chocolate for drinking - hot chocolate - homemade hot chocolate. And then they had buns from Mexico, donuts and then they had [?] they had for breakfast and stuff. And I couldn't sleep. So, I went upstairs and they were singing, Mariachis were singing and stuff. And I'm like, wow, you know, I never been to a… over here, you just get married, you know, a celebration. Then they all left and my wife started getting dressed. And my wife said, “we haven't slept hardly, it's too much excitement. I can't sleep.” So, we went to the wedding, to the reception at nine o'clock at night. And I can't keep my eyes open. I fell asleep in the chair for two hours, then I woke up. She was like, “do you want to go back?” I said, no, “we're good. I slept for two hours. We're good.” So, we stayed there till almost one o’clock in the morning. And then went, “I know we can go. We should go there. We can go now.” But then I said I didn't want to go. She goes, well, “thank you for bringing me now,” because she didn't want to go. And I think we're going to have the money to do it, but we had the money to do it because of my loan, I didn't have to have the closing costs or not because we passed that government loan, they call it, like I said, I don't know what it was. AS: What are some of your best memories and some of your worst memories about living here? EL: Like a good one was the trip to Washington. Well, being here, the best memory is when I met my wife. I mean. Sheila, I never, you know, I was married to a Takana [?]and they're a lot different, they're more… the culture's way different, you know, so it's an example of a difference, the way we talk. When I was talking to my wife, my wife would look at me and start laughing as I don't know, what are you talking about? I don't have the slightest idea what you're saying. So, what do you mean because you're Spanish and you're talking differently, and I talk and we talk like a sliding Spanish and they talk to write Spanish, and you don't say this, you say like this. All my life, I've been saying things, but now I talk with her in my life, I talk the correct way now and when I’m with my brother-in-law and my sister in law, I don't laugh at me anymore when I talk to him, because I first when they started talking, when they looked at me and started laughing and looked at what it's trying to say and my wife would tell him what I was saying, you know, and they don't do that anymore. But, you know, that's the best time. I met her and we had kids, and at first, you know, I was like...I never grew up. I would party, go to Spanish dances, you know. All my money was gold, like to drink and I'm going to spend it and going to Toledo, Ohio, to see the theaters and all that and stuff like that going, you know, spending money doing that. And I never 13 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department had nothing. You know, I was just the house and the car. I always had a brand-new vehicle all the time because I was single, but never, you know, I always party. Then my first wife was the same way. So, you know. And we didn't get along because she would take off and then come back, you know. And I thought we were married. I said, you know, “you should tell me where you're going and stuff” and she’d get mad. And you know, that time she got mad and took off. Then I didn't see her for a month. Because she was mad at me. And when she came back, I said, “well, this ain't going to work, you can just leave for a month. Don't know where you are and you know well you don't like it while living [?] all over again.” That's when I filed for divorce. Because marriage is a lifetime, it's a commitment, not the way you're doing it. I don't want that. You know, if you want to do, you know, party and do whatever you want, you can do it without me. Because part of the time, I don't know where you are at? You know, and I don't need that. And then, when we were divorced, and then when I met my wife, it was, you know, the culture's way different. Like I say, their culture is way, you know, she doesn't bring…. It's way different, I mean, this culture, you know, our culture here and being our people and our culture in Mexico is different. And that's come to me as my life goes along because, you know, I was at that time, you know, I was thirtysomething years old. I'm forty-nine years old. And I got that one and happy, I'll tell you something. But, you know, I mean. And at that time, I was thinking about settling down; I didn't want to party anymore. I didn't want to go to dances. I just, you know, I would see my brothers, my sisters, especially my brothers. You know, they got married young and their kids were growing big. My brother, you know, I went visiting my brother, but he's got a house here and his daughter staying there and he goes all over working in construction and working hard. He works for a company out of Holland. They work in hospitals and stuff, and they go all over the United States working in a hospital. And I’ve got nieces that, you know, my brother younger than me and I got nieces, they're twenty-one, twenty-two years old and already grown up. And there’s one, you know, one Christmas. I went to Christmas and, you know, I started realizing, I need to settle down. My nephews and my nieces are fifteen, sixteen, and I need to get settled down, and that's when I decided, you know, when I got married with my first wife, I thought I was going to be settled down. That was what she wanted to continue her life the way it was. And I was I was not going to do that, you know, anymore. I had quit drinking and stuff she did. And she wanted to, you know, be liberal or what you want to call it. I couldn't handle that. So, I told her, you know. This only lasted, you know, we were together for a year and marriage, you know, I thought marriages are going to change it, but it didn't. It made it worse. So, we were only married three months and I decided, you know, this is, I can't have you going like that. I'm going to work and then come back, you know, the next day on a Friday because you had Saturday and Sunday off. You know, she didn't come back until Friday and wouldn’t come back till five, six o'clock in the morning. When I was with friends from work party, you know, there's a phone call. I can't handle it. I married my wife. That's one of the cultural differences; we got along great and I was ready to settle down and we’ve got to trust each other, no matter what I think, we have that. We mean I've been here waiting for you with me, where I you and this one, you know, I can go to my work, come back. And I love to work, we talk about work, we talk about, you know, the kids are you know, where we differ. Yeah. AS: Does your wife work? EL: No. 14 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department AS: Okay. EL: She does. She wants to work, but we're trying to get her papers and it's been difficult. She's not documented and it's been difficult for us because they denied our part because my job, you know, for me to have what I got and for us to have the help we got, I’ve got to work overtime. And they know me there at work. They don't ask nobody because they really know what they're going to say. They come to me and say, “You want to stay here, you want to come in early tomorrow?” And I go in early and they deny my pardon, they call it, because they told me I make too much money and I can afford for her to be over there. But they don't understand how much over time I've been working. Because of her, she wants to work. I would want her to work too, you know, to help us out, you know, but the lawyer said she couldn't work. She couldn't drive. You know, we don't get caught working. Don't get caught driving because there's a penalty on your account because of paperwork, because of what's going on. So, she thinks that I don't want her to work. But it ain't that I don't want her to leave. You know what I mean? Because she... they also told her that if she gets caught, they can send her back to Mexico or whatever. And I don't want her to, you know, I don't want the kids to go to that, you know? AS: Sure. EL: And she doesn’t understand that. But, you know, right now she's understanding why but at first, it was kind of hard for me and her because she thought I don't want her to work. She said, “no, you don't want me being, you know, get my own money.” It ain't that, this is what the lawyer said, it isn’t that I didn't want you to work or do that, but. And for us to have the house we got and the kids and stuff, I got to work that overtime and I work a lot overtime. You know, last week I worked fourteen hours overtime. This week, guys, I work for hours of overtime, and so the government is saying you make too much money. For now, I make too much, I make too much money that I can afford for her to live in Mexico and have my household here and still send her money to live off of. Because I worked a lot over time, they think that they think that the money I make throughout the year, that's the money I make all year, every year, and that ain't the case. And this year I'm going to prove it, because this year we got bought out from another company. We got bought out from Harverson [?] one. The company that bottomed out is Harbourfront Walker International. Now, the company is not North American Factories anymore. This year changed name to Harverson Walker International and they don't want to. Over time, they took away the overtime, not necessarily overtime, but there's still overtime. Sometimes because of the vacation, people got to vacation and stuff to get done. So, during the summertime, that's when I get the overtime. During the wintertime, I don't get overtime. And they're going to see that this year because that's when they bought us last year at the end of the year and at the beginning of the winter. And we didn't work no overtime when their time started and worked overtime right now. So, then we had a bonus every month and the whole year bonus. Don't give us a bonus anymore. So that's what they were looking at, too. You know, I get they didn't know, how do I get paid? They were just saying, you know why he's making sixtyseven thousand, eight, you know, a year. But they don't know that. I was working a lot of overtime, you know, six, seven days a week sometimes. You know, yeah, and the lawyer once said it's going to be a new law coming out and then he wants me to say, you're not making any money. I said, I'm not making overtime and I’ll say I'll be probably in the forties, forty-five or something, not in the sixties anymore, not sixty-nine. Seventy thousand, I'm not going to be making that anymore. And you told me why...I said, well, honest and then necessary overtime, they took our bonus away. So, you're not going to see that I would get a thousand dollar bonus a month, just like another paycheck, you know, it's like another 15 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department paycheck because the government takes forty percent off that. Yeah, because it's another tax bracket. Because of brackets, because it's a sentence, not a word. You know, it's like a center for you. The government don't look at that, they don't look at your... you know, over there and see how much you work, and they just see that he makes as much money in a year. You don't know why you're making that much money in a year. You don't want me to. And that's what they should look at, the people there and, you know, the judges and stuff. You know, how can we make so much money over time? But I just hope they change and we can find the paperwork and because I got to redo everything again, I started from scratch because I denied everything. And now we have to start like the lawyers and we have to start from the beginning and see if you could. So, they're talking about the money. I don't make the money anymore. I mean, you know, I'll be in the forty-five this year. Yeah, you know, not seventy, over seventy down. AS: Does your wife speak any English? EL: No, she don't. AS: What about your kids? Are they growing up speaking English? Spanish? EL: Both my kids are bilingual. AS: So, your oldest daughter is already in grade school and she's in third grade. EL: Third grade. AS: And then your middle son is in kindergarten. EL: Kindergarten because my daughter was born in February and September is the deadline. So, I can't put her in school until, you know, she has to be five years of September, the deadline. So, she was going to be five that year. But I couldn't put her in school because the time was like she had to wait another year to go to kindergarten or to preschool. And so, did my son. He just turned five in October, and he's going to kindergarten and then he's going to be the same way because he was born in September 2001 and September 12th, that's the deadline. He was born September 21st. And then he’ll have to wait to turn five years old to go to preschool right, then in kindergarten he is going to turn six years old. But it's okay. And then all three of them are bilingual and they’re barely talking. But he speaks Spanish directly. You know, my son talks a lot of English to me, but with my wife, he talks Spanish. And when we had a teacher’s conference and the teacher asked me and my wife said, “do you know how to talk in Spanish? “And so, she tells me, you know, it's interesting. Why do you think, I told her, you talk to your mom in Spanish, oh, that's what that is, Spanish. So, it's just so natural to me. Yeah, I say you talk Spanish to your mom. So, it is teaching, I know what to expect. But yeah, he taught Spanish to me by the time he talks English to mom, his mom, but she is learning English by my kids, so she understands it, she can read it, she don't know what she's reading, but she you know, that's the good thing about it. They are not a very good reader. And she can read it to me how she can pronounce the words very good. But I understand what she's saying and I can, you know, you know, relate, you know, to stuff. You know, I don't know the words and stuff. And in English, all I'm doing, I'm using the words in Spanish. So, when she tells me that in Spanish, I'm telling you in English, but she tells me that and how are your kids learning to read in Spanish where they just talk and understand English talk and understand. My daughter loves to read. I didn't know one time I went to bed and I'm like, I'm here and stuff like. I was talking why she stopped. You will you will find out for a lot closer to her over get the door open a 16 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department little bit and I see a little light coming from open the door, turn the light on. She's underneath the covers with her flashlight reading a classic. I think a lot of kids have done that and say, what are you doing? She goes reading, I go to bed. I said, no, you can read. She goes like me before I go to bed. That makes me go to sleep. I love it. She does that every night, reads something with the little flashlight. So sometimes I have to tolerate it. If you need better batteries for your flashlight. And I said here, just keep them in your room and then she already knows how to change them and everything. So, then I got her little lights that’s got that clip. No, no, it's a light that it's instead of twenty-five lumens or whatever you call it, it's like sixty, so it's a little brighter. I got one of them and she loves it. Thank you for the light. I would like, you know, to know what she reads every night, every night. And I could hear you talking at night. I really know that a couple of nights there, I'm like, let's talk. So, Yasmine, I thought maybe she started her sleep or something. One night I said, man, she's talking like she's reading something and you go check and my wife already knew what's going on. I wanted to act and she was reading. So, she likes to read. At school they get a little piece of something. Every month during the winter time, she got one little piece of fruit because she read a whole bunch of books. She likes reading. So, my son is a different story. You know, you don't know how to read in preschool. You don't pick up a book and read or not, I think it's going to be like me. He likes mechanical stuff. I'm working on stuff where I go outside to the garage. He goes outside to the garage with me. And what is that? What is this? What is that for? What is this used for? So, I show, you know how to use it to stuff some. And he said, we got to fix the bike, what to do, and I help him to fix this and that. And he surprised me this year. He says that I need a bigger bike. I said, no, you don't. Yes, I do. You don't. Your bike, it's good. No, I need a bigger bike and I need to take the training wheels off. It had training wheels on, but bigger than the one he had, he can barely put his feet down like he is too tall. You know, I can do it now. That's what happened with the little one. I would get stuck like those that take the training wheels off. I didn't want to, but I took them off. I mean, it surprised me. We took off all around the house and stuff. And I'm like, I can't believe that Yasmine didn't do that. She had the training wheels until she was like six or seven years old. He's only five, we need to take the training wheels and he took off with his bike and he's bigger and he barely can put his feet down as it is. And I got to see it all the way down, you know, all the way it can go down. And he says, you know, one time you fall off the bike, I'm like, so he can yeah. It's because I have been on my tiptoes. I lost the footing. I think I said, well, get the other one and I put the seat on it. No, I want this one. And he rides and he rides that bike every day. Now after he got out of school, and I said, what are you doing out there? And like I said, he's out there on his bike. Yeah, he's out there every day. And he wakes up, he goes out there, gets his bike, riding his bike all day. AS: Apart from family life and your work, are there other kinds of things that you do in town? EL: Yes, I'm a proud member of the Knights of Columbus. I didn't know what it was at first when I was married to my wife, with my wife here. One day a friend of mine said, you know what we're doing tonight? I said, well, what is that? He said, Well, I'll bring Mr. Mason with me and we can talk about it. His name is Jim Mason from Fremont. He came and talked to us at St. Gregory and I said, well, I'll try the way he talked to Mr. Mason. I mean, just look at Greece this year. Yes. Mr. Mason talked about the nights when he talked about the nights. It was like, you know, it was like a great thing to do. The way he talked, you know, when Hector told me about it, I don't want to do it. So, I wouldn't bring Mr. Mason. But when he talked, he was the one that convinced me, you know, OK, I've been in the knights for five years. And I'm a fourth-degree knight. You know, they go by degrees, they go first degree, second degree and third degree in fourth degree and fourth degree night. I do the [?] with the fourth degree. 17 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department And I like it because it gives me something. To do one, you know, sometimes they have, like breakfast and stuff and that's my time for me. I tell the wife, I said, I'm going to help, you know, help out there. And I come and help and I go back home. She told me how much money you guys make and, you know, stuff like that because, you know, we make money, too, for charities. And I tell her stuff that's done all the time alone for me because the rest of the time I spend it with my kids. There was a time that I was spending too much time doing because I was a great knight. I don't know, what a great knight, you know, great knight is your… the council is your council. You're the one that makes the meetings. You're the one to send letters to your council members. You're the one that makes the decisions for them. It's like being like a president. And it's like you got a president and vice president for a company. That's what it is. The grant like, you know, does all that where the money is going to where you know, and you got your assistant knight. You got your treasurer, you got here. So, it's you know, and it was getting to be too much, you know. And then the kids got baseball stuff, you know, practices and Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts. And my son just wants to be a Boy Scout and we're trying to get them in Boy Scouts. And he plays football. You get, you know, stuff like that. My daughter plays it and she's been trying everything. And I think she wants to do baseball, basketball, and volleyball and not football. Yes. You know, she liked football, but, you know, she's a girl. So, football, soccer or no football. Football where they call it Football Americano. AS: Right. EL: But, my son wants to play that. So, I put them in and he sees Yasmine being in Girl Scouts. You've been in Girl Scouts and since she started, if you want. You know, since we went there, we asked her if she wanted to be a Girl Scout in first grade. She was going to first grade and she likes it. And Junior sees her going, like, they go on trips, they go on camping trips and stuff like that. He says, I want to do that. Then I want to be in Girl Scouts. I say, you can’t be a Girl Scout. And they’ve got Boy Scouts. Oh, they do the same thing as Yasmine. Go on trips and go on camping trips and soccer. He likes camping. We go camping sometimes. I went back in the day and my wife doesn't like camping. But, you know, I once had just gone a couple of miles away from home, you know, we can do that at home. And I said, you don't understand this. Can you keep away from home, you know, just for a couple of days? You know, it's like she don't like it, but the only way she's going to go to Europe or something or like Ludington and stuff, you know, they were far away from home, but we try to do it here in the Hart. It's too close to home. I don't understand going camping. But she does understand the kids like it, so they must love camping, fishing, we go fishing, camping together and I take my daughter, she loves fishing. You know, I used to party a lot, and when I decided to settle down, I picked up fishing with my cousin Roy. We used to go fishing in Ludington. And that was, you know, that was my time away from work, to go fishing. I was working third shift, I would get out and he worked at [?]. And he said, I might take a day off Friday. I said, well, Friday is my last day and I get out at seven o’clock in the morning. I said, I'll meet you at your house at eight o’clock. Okay, so I will get out of work, and that was my last day of work, you know, and before I used to go party, and I’d go to the bar and all that stuff. Now it's time for me to settle down. So, I go fishing with my cousin and then, you know, what time you get out of work? And it's about five o’clock and said, well, we got a couple hours to go fishing. I'm going to be at work. And we go to Ludington and I got to drop you off and I got to go to work. So that's what we do. I sleep at home, get up, get all my equipment ready, and wait for him to get out of work. We go fishing up the [?]. I come back and drop him off at work so I can go home. Sometimes they say, well, just meet me at home. So, I'm home. Now, wait a minute. You know, I'll get there before you always get 18 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department there before. One time I got there and I thought you said you were going to [?}, so I left early and then he had an accident and he messed up his back. He doesn't work there anymore. Matter of fact, he can’t be seen very much because his back. I went to my little nieces, his daughter's graduation party and says he's still fishing. I said you should come pick me up one time. I said, well, I thought you didn't want to fish. Come sit down and kind of stand up. Well, he says I can do a little bit more now, but not very much, he said. But we can still go fishing. So, I have to call him up. I didn't know his number. You know he changes it. Yeah, I had his own phone number, but then he got a cell phone and I didn't know his number. A couple couple of days ago, it was last Saturday. Now we've got his number. Give me your phone number on it. Call me when we've got to go fishing. My wife called me to say where I left that because I thought I might be home by one or twelve [o’clock]. AS: I just have a couple more, quick questions and we can wrap it up and we can take you over to get your picture taken. We can give you a copy of this. And if you wanted to give us some pictures or you could send them. AS: So, this interview is going to be archived, it's saved for years and years, and so if you think of somebody fifty years from now listening to this. What's one thing that you would want to say to them? That really matters about your life here? EL: Life in Michigan? AS: Yeah, or maybe your life growing up first as a migrant settling here, something like that. EL: And I don't think I would have this opportunity when I got in Texas, so I talked to my cousins over there in Texas and they earn a lot less than I do, you know, but the cost of living is a lot less over there. But the job I got, I don't think I'll find anywhere else. I mean, in order have a job like that and like it is very slim and I like where I work at because of the people that work there, but the president and the president of the company are nice people, you know, not the people that bought us out because I don't know them. But the people there in the plant itself are like a big family. I mean, if something happens to somebody, like an operation. My friend's wife had cancer and fortunately she died about a couple of weeks ago. But we all had… a hat goes around people for money in there and it all goes to get a car and everybody finds it and it goes to the person because the medical bills are pretty expensive, that stuff. And our insurance company is not a Michigan insurer or insurance. Now, we had good insurance, but they took it away from us and they gave us insurance from Pennsylvania. And I don't know, is it different over there or whatever is here in Michigan? They don't cover hardly anything. But, you know, I like working there, and I don't think I would get an opportunity to go to a place like that and get on with the people, get along with your supervisor, get along with the company manager and, you know, stuff like that. I don't know. And there is a place around like that. I mean, ever since I worked there, I felt at home because the people are just, you know, they reach out to people and. And I like working here. AS: Is there a mix of Anglo and Latino workers there? EL: No, well, at first, there were African-American, Latino and Americans. But throughout the years, I'm the only Hispanic that works there…. African-Americans, their only used to be four of them. The other one, the other two retired, one quit, and there’s only one left and the rest are Americans. So there's only two of us, the one African-American, one Hispanic. Yeah, and there's no racial stuff going on, 19 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department nothing. They're just like, you know, you're the president of the company who walks around and, well, how are you doing? You know, all the kids now, they don't talk about it when they talk to you. You know, when he's walking around first thing or, you know, out of his mouth is, how are you doing? I was a kid, you know, stuff like that. Not that, you know, you don't talk about work or anything, you know, and then you talk to him about the kids and stuff and he and all the kids down there, they're pretty grown already. You know, I've been there twenty-one years. And, you know, people think, how people are going to act or who, you know, who's nice, who's not. But mostly everybody is, you know, a good person. They're working. AS: Well, to finish up anything else that you'd like to share that I haven't asked you about? I don't know whether you want me to talk about it, maybe? AS: How do you feel like you've gotten your story out, you feel like if somebody else listens to the story, they’d have a pretty good idea of this guy's life? EL: Well, I don't know, I just know that, when we were younger, it's kind of hard because going from Texas to Michigan, it's kind of hard because, you know, you don't… you only knew a couple of people at school, and there's always problems in school because, you know, you're new here and people didn't like you here. Then when you go to Texas while you were a part of the problem, the school first started for you or it’s not your problem there to me. So, it worked both ways. You know, it doesn’t matter, you know, people say there's racial stuff. It don't matter where you go, you know, it's got to be, like I said here, because I was the only Spanish guy here at school in the high school in Walkerville, you know, and then over there is because you didn't start the school year when they started, you know, and they're your own race, you know, you want me to be like, hey, you know, and then over here the same way, you know, that's where I come from. That's why when Miles would come up and say, you want to work, go to work and hang around with anybody, you know, I'd rather go work than, hang around with people. The people used to be wrong, you know? Yeah, and over there in Texas, we got home. My grandfather had cattle and some cattle, not very much. And my uncle and we get home and [Inaudible] be waiting for us a long time. Let's go cut some grass for the cows and stuff and we'd help out, you know, water. The cow will take food, too, you know, and hang around my grandfather. That's what I miss most about my time when my grandfather died, as part of me died because I used to hang around my grandfather a lot when we used to do a lot of stuff because my dad was a truck driver, he was never home, but my grandfather was there for me. AS: Alright, very well. Thank you for that. Thanks for your time and for sharing your memories with us. And that concludes the interview. 20 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0ced52a717bdf0a73f834c4bf75bcc52.mp3 e86599ee104bd66ffc7b3d1a9104f268 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shell-Weiss, Melanie Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Oceana County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society Relation A related resource Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Image Sound recording Language A language of the resource eng spa Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Subject The topic of the resource Oceana County (Mich.) Hart (Mich.) Shelby (Mich.) Farms Farmers Migrant agricultural laborers Hispanic Americans Account books Diaries Oral history Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06_Luevano_Estevan Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Luevano, Estevan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-06-18 Title A name given to the resource Luevano, Estevan (audio interview and transcript) Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with Estevan Luevano. Interviewed by Andrew Schlewitz on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English and Spanish language. Estevan Luevano was born in San Juan, Texas in 1967 as the son of two Mexican parents who migrated to Michigan for work each year. Throughout his life, he and his family were a part of the agricultural heritage of both places, and they settled in Michigan in 1981 and decided to stay. Estevan graduated from Walkerville High School in 1986 and studied diesel engines at the vocational center, which later helped him as he started his career as a semi-truck driver for his family’s business and later working as a mechanic. He ended up moving to Hesperia, Michigan in 1992 where he bought his first home and later started a family. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Schlewitz, Andrew (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oceana County (Mich.) Migrant agricultural laborers Farms Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8edce519d58f596b13d9af8a31891029.pdf 72060f3a0eee70684a64cf29dc42f6c2 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Ricardo Lugo Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 12/14/2012 Runtime: 01:36:06 Biography and Description Oral history of Ricardo Lugo, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on December 14, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: All right, if you can, give me your name again. RICARDO LUGO: Sure. Ricardo Lugo. And do you want me to look at you or the camera, how does it... JJ: Yeah, no, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). Go ahead and look at me. RL: Okay, okay. JJ: (inaudible) Okay. Ricardo? RL: Mm-hmm. JJ: Okay, Ricardo, if you can give me your full name, when -- you know, when you were born, and where you were born. RL: Okay. My name’s Ricardo Lugo, I was born in Chicago, in 1962. And the Cabrini-Green neighborhood’s where I was raised. JJ: Okay. And where in Cabrini-Green? RL: It was actually at 1230 North Larrabee, number 303. I remember that. JJ: Okay, at that time, and so, who were your parents (inaudible), and what were their names? RL: [Luis?] Lugo and [Marta?] Lugo. They came from Puerto Rico in the ’50s. JJ: Do you know what year, or (inaudible)? RL: I don’t know the exact year, but I remember the story is that they did come with three of my brothers, the first three that were born, and then they came here [00:01:00] and had nine more after that. JJ: Okay, over here, okay. 1 �RL: In Chicago. JJ: But it was, maybe the first part of the ’50s, mid ’50s, late ’50s, or -- you don’t know. Okay. RL: Yeah, I’m not sure. JJ: Where did they come from, what town? RL: Oh, Yauco, Puerto Rico. JJ: Yauco? RL: Yeah. JJ: Okay. Are they there now, or...? RL: My dad retired to Puerto Rico, to Yauco, Puerto Rico, and my mom also stayed with him for many years out there, you know, when he retired. He was a laborer, worked in the factory his whole life, until he retired. JJ: Do you know what factory, or...? RL: It was called Humboldt Manufacturing. JJ: Okay. RL: And ironically, they were located in Humboldt Park area. And so, he would go from Cabrini-Green, drive to work, and this factory in the Humboldt Park area, it was near Armitage and Whipple. Sort of in that area. And for that reason, he happened to see a house that we eventually moved to in Humboldt Park, 1920 North Humboldt. JJ: 1920 North Humboldt? RL: Mm-hmm. JJ: Okay. So you moved -- what year did you move, do you know? 2 �RL: [00:02:00] It was about ’70, 70-71. JJ: Okay. RL: Yeah. JJ: So other than that, you lived in Cabrini-Green (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Yeah, from 1962 till 71, I lived in Cabrini-Green myself. And, you know, my whole family. JJ: Yeah, and your whole family. Okay, now what about your siblings, what are some of their names? RL: Okay, I have 12 siblings, 8 boys and 4 girls. I’ll start with the boys, and from the oldest down to the youngest, there’s [Antonio?] Lugo, [Raul?] Lugo, [Wilfredo?] Lugo, [William?] Lugo, [David?] Lugo, [Orlando?] Lugo, myself, and my younger brother, [Daniel?] Lugo. As for the women, there’s [Alicia?] Lugo, I don’t have to say their last name but [Lucy?] -- [Lucia?], [Elena?], and Teresa. JJ: And Teresa? Okay. RL: Yeah, yeah. JJ: Okay... Now, they all live in the same house all the time till 1971, or...? RL: I’m trying to thi-- When we moved to Humboldt Park, I think the -- [00:03:00] at least the -- the top three -- the three older brothers, I think, had already moved out at that point. So there may have been about, at least nine of us living in Humboldt Park -- in the house we moved into in Humboldt, 1920 North Humboldt. JJ: But they had moved out before moving to Humboldt Park? RL: Well, we lived in Cabrini. JJ: Okay. 3 �RL: And I’m assuming most of us, maybe except for a brother or two, may have already moved out as I was growing up in ’62 in Cabrini. And I think at that point we only had maybe a three-bedroom apartment. It was public housing. JJ: So where did people sleep, then? RL: Bunk beds were big. I know I slept with my little brother all the way through the house in Humboldt Park. I mean, we still had bunk beds, and I slept with my little brother. JJ: And were there other Puerto Ricans near where you were at, or...? RL: In Cabrini? In Cabrini-Green? Yeah, as a matter of fact, there was one particular family, they grew up with us, and then when we moved to Humboldt Park, they [00:04:00] lived in Cabrini. And so we were great friends. Then we moved to Humboldt Park, they actually lived there -- JJ: [Do you know?] the name of the family? RL: Yeah, the [Perez?] family. JJ: The Perez family? RL: [Clotilde?] Perez was his name. JJ: Okay. RL: And [George?] Perez was one of the sons, and [Gladys?] Perez, [Lolly?] Perez, her name. So it was the Perez family. And the father, Clotilde, he worked at the Palmer House. He still does, even now, like, I don’t know, almost 40 years later. JJ: He’s still working at the Palmer House? RL: Yeah. And he got jobs for my brothers, his sons, at the Palmer House. JJ: Okay. 4 �RL: (inaudible) JJ: So was the Palmer House a place where a lot of people worked at that time, or...? RL: Lotta Puerto Ricans. The Palmer House hotel was a Hilton hotel, it’s downtown, still there, the Palmer House hotel. And a lot of Puerto Ricans worked in the main kitchen, from when I got there, as a teenager. JJ: So you worked there, too. RL: Oh yeah, I worked there as a freshman in high school. And it helped pay for my education, actually. Well, a sophomore in high school, I [00:05:00] think it was. But it helped pay for my education. Yeah. JJ: Okay. What high school was that? RL: Holy Trinity. But actually, I studied at Prosser Vocational High School, and Prosser Vocational High School is located by Grand and Long, near Central Avenue. JJ: Okay. RL: Yeah, on the west side of Chicago. And at that time, when I was there, 1980, that was where, pretty much, for the most part, most of the white gangs were there. As we know, Clemente High School had Latino gangs and things like that, but -- and that was one of the worst schools, Clemente, of course, but Prosser -- JJ: So who was in the gangs, that you (inaudible)? RL: The C-Notes, the Jousters, the Gaylords, Simon City Royals. I mean, like, every white gang in the city who was there. I remember the first day I went there as a freshman, my first day, September, I have a sweater on, you know, no big deal, 5 �right, it’s a little cool outside, with a belt on it. And I’m just standing outside waiting for the bell to ring [00:06:00] so I could start my first day as a high school kid. And a white guy came and grabbed me by my sweater, said, “C’mere.” So I followed him, I mean, he had me, of course, so I had to follow him. And he just took me a short distance and he showed me where my belt was. And, you know, the point was, I knew, had those senses about me, I mean, I grew up in Humboldt Park, I knew how to defend myself and so on, growing up in Humboldt Park. But I also knew I was in territory that was all white gang. And they were -I’m sure they were salivating for, you know, for all of them to jump me if I tried to make a move, so, of course. You know, but that was just the beginning of my high school career. JJ: And this was on what streets? RL: On Long. Long Avenue. JJ: You said Long -- Long Avenue. RL: Yeah. JJ: So that’s pretty west. RL: Yeah, that’s west, almost towards Central. JJ: Okay, but, by North Avenue or by Armitage, or...? RL: It’s on Grand, it’s Armitage, pero, then Armitage turns into Grand. JJ: Exactly. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Yeah. RL: As you go west. Yeah. They’re still [00:07:00] there, they’re still there. JJ: You were just there because of the high school, so, because you were living more east of that. 6 �RL: Yeah, I mean, I could have gone to Clemente, but I wanted to go to a decent school, and that was a decent school in the area. Frankly, I know I wanted to go to Weber, which was a couple blocks away from Prosser, but, you know, Catholic school, but I couldn’t afford it, we couldn’t afford it, my family couldn’t afford it, so I went to public school. JJ: Okay, so, ’cause you mentioned there were some gangs in Clemente. RL: Oh yeah, ’cause, you know, growing up in Humboldt Park, I knew the Clemente gang issue too. JJ: So were you in the gang [at all?]? RL: No. Most of the guys in my neighborhood, I mean, they were in gangs, most of the guys in my neighborhood were in gangs. But because of my parents, obviously, I think, it was because of my -- there was a strong foundation from my parents, who were religious and strict. They kept me in, my brother -- none of my siblings were in gangs, per se. You know, and when I say “gangs,” ’cause I know my oldest brother, he was a Young Lord. But the Young Lords were a social organization, not what we consider gangs, you know, [00:08:00] nowadays, where they’re killing each other and things like that. And so, when I grew up, there were gangs, and there were the Ghetto Boys Organization, the Yates Boys Organization, Latin Kings, in my neighborhood, I’m just talking about my specific area. And I knew ’em all, they were all my friends, so I knew ’em all. And... JJ: But you didn’t get into that? RL: No, I used to, you know, hang out with them and things like that. JJ: And your family, the other brothers didn’t get into it? 7 �RL: No, no. None of us were in gangs. JJ: [As you were saying?]. RL: Yeah, I think, growing up with a family of seven brothers, you know, eight with me, it was almost like, you’re supposed to take care of yourself. We didn’t need a gang to protect you. JJ: “We have a group here.” RL: Huh? JJ: Were you saying “We have a group here,” is that what you’re saying? RL: Right, right, we have our own group. I mean, you know, it was almost like, the other brothers would think you’re a punk. JJ: [It wasn’t a?] gang, but you kind of (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). RL: Yeah, it was almost an unwritten rule that you, you know, you should take care, you know, should be able to take care of yourself. JJ: Okay. RL: I mean, I never felt like I could even go to my brothers and ask for [00:09:00] help, because I always felt like, “Hey,” you know, “I had to deal with it,” you know. JJ: Yourself. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) RL: Myself, right. And I didn’t need a gang, I didn’t need my brothers. JJ: And you didn’t believe in none of that gang philosophy type of...? RL: I mean, I understood it, ’cause I grew up in that environment, so I could see, you know, and understand it. But, in terms of believing in it, I mean, I wish, you know, all of us had opportunity to go to Weber High School, or, you know, places 8 �that other kids had opportunity. A lot of us just didn’t have the opportunity, myself included. Again, I went to Prosser. And my first two years -JJ: What was Prosser? (inaudible) RL: Prosser High School. JJ: Okay. RL: My first two years at that s-- JJ: Where is that located? I’m sorry. RL: I’m sorry? JJ: Where’s that located? RL: Over on the west side, by Grand and Long Street. JJ: Okay, the same thing. The same thing. RL: And remember, I started there, the gangs, white gangs. And I got D’s and F’s my first two years. Okay, D’s and F’s. That’s all I got. Why? Because it was more of a issue of survival than going there for an education. JJ: What do you mean? In [00:10:00] that area? RL: Well, yeah, with the gang members, you know. You know, like -- JJ: Like, you were just trying to figure out how to get to school [and back?]. RL: Right, exactly, exactly. ’Cause even within the school setting, inside the building, there was issues. And there was only a handful of us Latinos. You know, Dominicans, Cubans, Mexicans, myself, Puerto Rican. There was only a handful of us, maybe seven, eight guys and stuff, and other Latinas. But the white gangs would try to pick on us because they just assume, you know, because at that time Latino gangs were big, so, you know, and they were the enemies, so. Not 9 �that I was in a gang, but still, you’re Latino, teenagers, you know how they, machismo, from the white perspective, they think, “Oh,” you know, “good, we got some Latin guys and teenagers in here, so let’s pick on them.” JJ: So even though you weren’t in a gang, they were picking on you. RL: Yeah... JJ: Did they know that you weren’t in a gang? RL: I mean, but pi-- when I say picking on me, I mean they didn’t confront me, you know, by touching me, because that would [00:11:00] equal a fight again, but it was there, the tension was there. JJ: The tension, you felt it. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) RL: Right, right, a tension was there, and you had, you know, smart enough to watch your back, and, yeah. But it wasn’t -- I mean, school wasn’t the main focus. JJ: Your focus at that time. RL: At that time for me, and I think Chicago public school system. It didn’t really help a lot of inner-city kids, you know, not today, not yesterday. I mean, the story seems to be the same anyway. JJ: Okay. What about grammar school? Did they ever help you in any way? RL: Yeah, it helped me -- JJ: What school did you [attend there?]? RL: Well, in Cabrini-Green, I went to Schiller School. And actually, I started with Head Start. And within our building, on the first floor, the ground floor, there was a classroom, for Head Start. I’m assuming I was four years old at the time -- JJ: Now you’re talking about -- how tall is that building (inaudible)? 10 �RL: 16 floors. JJ: 16 floors. So a downstairs, on the first floor. RL: Yeah, the ground level. The sidewalk level. And [00:12:00] when you bring up that six-- and, you know, there was 16 floors, and you could go to the top floor, and you could look over, and you see the lake. You know, just briefly, you see the blue outline. So you could actually see the l-- JJ: So that was pretty -- did you spend a lot of time up there, or...? RL: No, no, no, no, no, no. That building was dangerous too, you know, and plus I was a little kid -- JJ: What do you mean dangerous? What do you mean? RL: Luckily for me, I was a little kid, and so, when I say little kid, from the age of zero to eight, nine years old is when I grew up there. So I was able to go to the playground and things like that. But once you became a teenager and things like that, then, you know, other kids will start picking on you. For example, my brothers, they were robbed, you know, like, if you go walking down the street to the store, you know, “Hey, give me your money,” you know, that type of things. I mean, they had a -- what was it, Blackstone Rangers, I think at that time? JJ: Clybourn Corrupters, maybe. RL: Yeah, by Cooley High School, Cooley High School [at that park?]. JJ: Oh, Cooley High School was right there. RL: Yeah, and the Black gangs were around there, and, you know, that [00:13:00] area. Cabrini, it was the Black gangs. JJ: Right. 11 �RL: So, yeah, so there was a few of those. And, you know, they had to leave the building to go to high school, farther away. See, I was within the building, studying, so that helped. I mean, even my grade school, when I started first, second grade, wasn’t that far away. A block away, you could see it out the window. Yeah. So it wasn’t too bad, for a kid growing up there, but it was more dangerous for a teenager. You know. ’Cause again, you’re, you know, we’re considered white in Cabrini-Green, even though we’re Puerto Rican, Spanish, but, you know. JJ: Considered by who? By the -- RL: By the Black gang members, you know. Or even some of the people in the building, ’cause maybe they didn’t, you know, all they see is the white skin, or the brown skin, and think of it more as, you know, white people. Yeah. ’Cause I remember growing up, in the hallway going up the stairs one time, we lived in the third floor, and I saw on the wall it says, “The white people in 303 suck!” You know, I remember that [00:14:00] growing up as a kid, so. But it was fun for me, I mean, I got along great with the families, they got along great with us. It’s just, once you leave that building, going down the street, you could get jumped by outsiders. JJ: So the building was fun, you can hang out [in front of?] -- RL: Oh yeah, the building was great. JJ: Front and around the building, and the parking lot, and... RL: Right, exactly, it was great. It was fun. JJ: But once you went to the other [parts?] -- 12 �RL: Once you left the safety of that building, you know, now you engaging with strangers, or people who need some money, so they’re gonna rob you. It was totally different at that point. JJ: So how -- RL: And plus, a lot of people knew you. In the building they just know you, you know. And in those days, you could throw stuff off the -- from the floors, nowadays you - well, Cabrini-Green’s torn down now, but many years ago they did enclose it, so that you couldn’t throw things over the balconies and things like that. So you would throw a body over if you wanted in the old days. JJ: Throw a body over? RL: Yeah, if you wanted to. (laughter) I mean, you know. JJ: People threw bottles and [00:15:00] things like that, or...? RL: Yeah, one time, when I was a little kid, I was waiting, I don’t know why I was waiting outside, you know, and s-- you know, on the first floor, you could be under the building, and you’re protected from any debris or whatever. But for some reason I was on the sidewalk part, and I was waiting for somebody, you know, somebody, in those days, the milk delivery, it was a glass, milk was in glass, not, like, cartons or anything. So a bottle actually came, like, inches from me and just, I don’t know what floor it came from, but the point was, it was coming real fast, and it just splattered. It didn’t even scare me, because it happened so fast. You know, all it did was (sound effect) and it didn’t scare me, but then I just thought to myself, you know, “Dumbass, you shouldn’t even be 13 �there, take your [walk?].” The safety of the vestibule, you know, just be under the building a little bit. JJ: So, what kind of -- what was the school like then? You went to school right around, you said Schiller? What was that -- RL: Yeah, Schiller School, and you know who taught at that time, at that school, as a PE teacher? Jesse [00:16:00] White, secretary of state. JJ: Okay. He taught there? RL: He was actually a teacher at Schiller High School -- Schiller School, I’m sorry. JJ: Did you meet him, or...? RL: No, ’cause I was, you know, I was a little kid, I don’t even know if I crossed paths with him, maybe he might’ve been a PE teacher for the upper, you know, the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grader. But, yeah, he was from [that area?]. JJ: And there was a -- ’cause, around that time there was, like, the Old Town, that was near Old Town, too, right? RL: We weren’t that far away, but we were far away enough -- Division and Larrabee, so yeah. JJ: Enough that there was a separate culture, then (inaudible)? RL: Yeah, or -- yeah, kind of, maybe -- JJ: But there were Puerto Ricans around there, yeah? RL: Yeah, see, but I don’t remember that, ’cause again, I was a kid, so I wasn’t old enough to venture. You know, I was old -- that was my community, that 16-floor building was the extent of it. Unless we went to church, you know, we went to St. 14 �Francis of Assisi, where, at that time, was the first Hispanic mass. Spanish mass. JJ: Oh, you went there, your family went there? RL: Yeah, I was baptized at St. Sylvest-- St. Francis of [00:17:00] Assisi. And Maxwell Street was there, that’s where -- that was, like, the mall. JJ: So you remember that? But, I mean, what do you remember of that? RL: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, the Polish sausage, and mainly, my dad negotiating, I think I learned my negotiating skills from my dad, ’cause I could w-- I would watch him negotiate with the guy, and literally, you would think they were gonna fight, because they were going back and forth, you know. And then my dad would just leave, “Come on, let’s go.” JJ: Over clothes, [or something?]? RL: Right, anything. Gym shoes, coats, clothes, anything. And then we’d walk up the stairs, the owner, “Come back, come on, come on, I’ll give you the price, give you the price.” So, you know, my dad always seemed to win the arguments. But it was pretty fascinating watching that, because -- JJ: You’re talking about Maxwell Street, that’s [how they negotiated?]. RL: Yeah, Maxwell Street, that’s the way it -- JJ: I remember [that?]. RL: That was the way it worked. And then that Polish sausage place that’s famous now, for Maxwell Street Polish, started there, ’cause that was the lunch. That was the first mall for us Hispanics, anyway. I don’t know if there were malls elsewhere, like I said, ’cause we -- [00:18:00] our own environment is what it is, 15 �you know. You go live in your building, you go to church, and it happened to be St. Francis of Assisi, which is near, you know, Maxwell Street. And then there was another church, too, that we used to go to, St. Joseph, which was near Cooley. Cooley High School. So we’d go there also. JJ: So you remember the [area?]. I remember -- well, not St. Francis, but St. Joseph, I remember [that, yeah?]. But -- so, okay, so you remember St. Francis, that’s interesting. So then, you’re going to Schiller, what was Schiller like, [inside the?] school? RL: Schiller was good, it was a good school. It was walking distance -- JJ: Were there more Puerto Ricans there, or...? RL: No, again, it was still just a lot of African American kids and myself, you know, me and a few kids, Spanish. Yeah. I mean, but, what I remember is the African Americans. I had a great time, actually, as a little kid, meeting the, even the African American [00:19:00] women, you know, the girls, my age, stuff like that. I mean, ’cause you -- there was a laundry room on every floor, too. So sometimes, you know, you go in the laundry room and play. Yeah, I mean, it was interesting. And the laundry room, they had cages in the laundry rooms. So, like, if people washed their clothes, they would hang up their clothes in the laundry room. We didn’t have a dryer, it was an old-fashioned washer. And then, to -- JJ: And then you just hang up your clothes (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: You hang up your clothes and then you lock it in that cage. JJ: And then they would dry (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- 16 �RL: It was, like, three cages per -- JJ: -- it would dry? And iron -- RL: Yeah, you just [pick it up?] and it dries. Yeah. JJ: And then, so what about the family, what about the entertainment, what was that like? RL: Yeah, it was great entertainment, ’cause it was all families. Basically, our families would get together, because, you know, they all came from Puerto Rico for the most part, and so, the entertainment was, you know, getting together, ’cause now you’re [00:20:00] working hard during the week, you got your kids, you gotta do all this. But on Sundays, it seemed that we’d go v-- you know, after church especially, we’d go visit families, and, or they’d visit us, and, you know, we’d just interact with the kids. Me being a kid, I interacted with my cousins, and it was fun. JJ: [Okay, was?] -- yeah, your cousins. Where were they living? RL: I had a cousin in particular who lived -- they lived, this family lived in -- the Quinones. Family lived -- my uncle and his wife and children, they lived by Wrigley Field, Wrigley Field, actually, over in that area. And so they had a nice -I remember they had a view of Wrigley Field, practically, you know, like, from far away you could see Wrigley Field. But, yeah, we interact -- JJ: You said Quinones? Were they -- were there Latin in them too, or...? RL: Yeah, well, yeah, because my mom is a Quinones, that’s her maiden name, and the reason why that’s, you know, it’s a good question, ’cause she had 13 -- she had 26 brothers and sisters in Yauco. 17 �JJ: In Yauco. RL: Yeah. JJ: [00:21:00] She’s from Yauco, too, then? RL: Yeah. So what happened was, my grandfather married, had 13 kids, and then she passed away, my grandmother, and so he remarried and had 13 more kids, so now my mom has 26 siblings. And the reason why, because they really [liked?] the Ponderosa, you know, they lived off the land, they had a lot of land, and they even had hired -- they would hire people. So that’s how my dad met my mom, because he was a hired hand also, working on the land and stuff like that. JJ: In Puer-- in Yauco. RL: In Yauco. So there was a lot of -- they had -- it was like the Ponderosa, I guess, you know, but mountainous, of course. JJ: Oh, Ponderosa, you mean it was like a plantation type of -- RL: Yeah, you know, but it’s all mountains and, you know. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) [border?], yeah. RL: Yeah, I call it the Ponderosa. JJ: So they would hire -- so he would get hired by the other farmers to work on the food? RL: Right, my grandfather hired my dad. JJ: Okay. RL: Yeah, as young teenagers that they are, making some money. JJ: Okay. So he told you about that, [00:22:00] or...? 18 �RL: So -- huh? Yeah, my dad met my mom, of course, and so that’s how that came about. And most of my uncles and aunts, they had a lot of kids themselves, see, so they were used to a big group of people, you know, within their own family, growing up with 26. So my parents had 12, and my aunt had 10, and other family members, you know, uncles and aunts, they had a lotta kids also. JJ: You have kids too, or no? RL: I have one boy, a seven-year-old boy. JJ: What’s his first name? RL: Jake. JJ: Jake, okay. RL: I mean, I -- JJ: And your wife’s name, what’s her name? RL: I’m divorced now, pero, because of this family background I’m describing, I also wanted six kids. [My aunties?] would remind me, “Hey, you always said you wanted six kids,” ’cause yeah, I love being around -- I love kids, ’cause that’s how, you know, you learn that from home and things like that. And ironically, in my case, and I was a good -- let me back up a little bit, I was a good boy, because when I was young as a teenager, people were having kids left and right as teenagers. You know, the gangbangers, and, you know, not even gangbangers, they were just young people who were [00:23:00] havin’ sex, and, you know, they didn’t know -- they weren’t educated in terms of sex education, so all of a sudden, a girl gets pregnant, and so now they have to deal with it. So I saw a lot of that in Humboldt Park. Luckily for me, I didn’t, because I was always 19 �afraid of getting a girl pregnant. Really, that was the key, and plus, my parents, you know, they wouldn’t have been happy, so you keep that in the back of your mind. And I wanted an education anyway, so funny thing is, okay, now I go -- I ended up going to law school and so on and so on, and I married twice. And both women couldn’t have children. So, you know, I did want -- still wanted my six kids, if possible, God willing, but right now I have one child. And, so... And he was born -- I was married to a public defender in Wisconsin. And then I got married and, you know, after Wisconsin, I got divorced, came back to Chicago [00:24:00] in 2000, and the second wife I married, she’s also a lawyer, from Iowa, and she lives here, works here in Chicago. And so, her best friend from third grade, all of a sudden, just told her, “Hey, I’ll carry your kid if you want.” So it was my ex-wife’s egg and my sperm, and, you know, this lady became a carrier for our child, so that’s how I got a seven-year-old boy. JJ: Okay. (inaudible) Jake. RL: Yeah, right? Exactly. JJ: What were you doing in Wisconsin, [I mean --?]? RL: I was a public defender. JJ: In Wisconsin? RL: In Wisconsin, ’cause what happened was -- JJ: You moved out there, I mean --? RL: Yeah, what happened was, I ended up getting a scholarship -- this is my story. When I applied to law school, well, let me back up a little bit more. I went to Illinois Benedictine College... 20 �JJ: Okay. RL: Okay, which is in Lisle, Illinois, not far by Naperville, Downers Grove. And, you know, it took me time to graduate, ’cause it’s a Catholic school, it’s expensive, so I would drop out, [00:25:00] get a job, go back, and live on campus. So, it took me about six years to graduate because I just kept, you know, my goal was to graduate, and I did. But towards the end is when I really, really got serious, and started pushing myself to get excellent grades. And that’s what I was trying to do, just get some excellent grades, and I did. And so I applied to law school. In University of Wi-- At that time, I wanted to just to go to a top 20 law school. That was my goal, that’s it. “Gonna apply to a top 20 law school, if I don’t get accepted, okay, different career choice.” You know. So, I luckily, thank God I got accepted at University of Wisconsin, which was a top 20 law school. And got a full scholarship on top of that. So then I went out there, they also had a good criminal program, which, you know, I, based on where I grew up, with criminals, if you wanna call it that, my buddies, you know, I know that stuff. I became a [00:26:00] public defender. I wanted to help people. Why? Because I saw it, I saw the injustice on the street, I saw police brutality, I saw police do things. And not all -- and, like any profession, there’s good, bad, and ugly. So not all cops are bad, not all teachers are bad, not all lawyers are bad. I mean, I’ve seen some bad lawyers, you know. So in every profession, there’s some great teachers out there who love to do what they do, there’s some bad teachers who don’t care. I mean, so I’ve seen it all, you know. Growing up with 12 kids, growing up in Cabrini, Humboldt Park, you know, there’s a lotta stuff out there 21 �that, luckily for me, I was able to experience. So then I became a public defender after I graduated from law school. And I stayed out there, Racine, Wisconsin, for seven years and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for three years. And I really loved working with juveniles, that was really what, for me, it was almost like a dream come true. You know, here I am, cross-examining a cop, basically beatin’ em up verbally. Basically, [00:27:00] helping my client in a way that, maybe the stop was illegal. Maybe the cops searched him illegally, no rights. People have -- there’s constitutional rights that we all have, most of us don’t know it though, ’cause for whatever reason, they don’t really -- they teach that in some schools, but some schools maybe just don’t, but. I felt good protecting the rights of individuals, especially based on what I saw as a kid. JJ: So you met your wife there, and then... RL: Actually, when I went to go visit that school, I met my wife-to-be. It was like a one-day visit, and she invited me to a party where the other Latino students were having law students, and I said, “No, I gotta go back to Chicago,” so, you know. And then when I did go to law school, she was a third-year law student and I was a first-year. And so we, you know, I could tell there was some connection there, [00:28:00] but my goal was to go to law school and get an education. And I was not gonna get involved in a relationship that may, you know, take my focus off what I came there to do. So, we were great friends, but I never dated her in law school. And ironically, I ended up in Racine as a public defender, where she was working in Racine as a public defender. I tried to go to Kenosha, but they needed me in Racine, so they put me in Racine, ’cause Kenosha was closer to 22 �Chicago and I wanted to be closer to Chicago. So that’s why I ended up in Racine. JJ: Now, what about your other siblings? What kind of work did they get into? RL: Well, starting from the top, my oldest brother, growing up, he worked at Sandburg Super Market, which is over there in Lincoln Park by North Avenue and Clark. And so, based on that experience -- JJ: Actually, by Old Town, it’s more like Old Town, we used to call it La Clark, the neighborhood, La Clark. RL: Right, right, near Old Town, también, exactly. JJ: Right, yeah. RL: So, yeah, ’cause Old Town is just a few blocks [00:29:00] west of there. JJ: Right, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) [it’s?] the border. RL: Because, yeah, where he was was Clark, and Old Town’s on Wells, just a few blocks to the west. JJ: Okay, so he worked there... RL: So he worked there, and he learned a lot about the supermarket business. And eventually, he ended up buying and opening his own supermarket. I remember he called it -- JJ: What’s the name of it? RL: He called it [Lugo Warehouse Supermarket?]. Yeah. JJ: And was it located (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: It was on the west side, by North Avenue, going towards [Austin?] over there. Yeah, so for many years, he had that. Eventually he opened one up in Elgin, you 23 �know, he closed that one and went to Elgin and opened a bigger supermarket. So he was doing pretty well for himself, invested in property and real estate, so he was doing well for himself. And then there was my -JJ: In Elgin, or in Chicago? RL: In Chicago, in Chicago. Yeah. And then he ended up living in Skokie during those years, that’s where he was living with two boys, you know, my [00:30:00] nephews, and his wife. And then my other brother, Raul, the second oldest, the former Young Lord, he was in the computer -- he worked for a computer company, I forget the name of it. Or was it...? I remember he worked for Continental Can Company for many years first, and ended up doing a lot of computer stuff when computers were still(inaudible) and coming out, and things like that. JJ: Actually, Gladys was a Young Lord, too. His -- RL: Oh, his wife, Gladys. JJ: Yeah, (inaudible) was a Young Lord too. RL: Right. Right, she worked for the federal system for -- till she’s gonna -- she’s still working there. JJ: And her brother [Edwin?] was also a Young Lord. RL: Right, Edwin, I remember. JJ: [Lots of?] Young Lords in that family there. RL: So I knew that family forever, ’cause they actually lived over by Armitage, and Halsted, and that area. JJ: Yeah, so they moved in that area, they were living there, yeah. 24 �RL: Right? I remember visiting them. JJ: Right by the church, right by the church. RL: Right by the church, I used to go there. Yeah. JJ: Now, you were only, like, seven years old, though, and the Young Lords were -had the church and all, you don’t remember any of that? RL: No, I just remember visiting my [00:31:00] brother’s home, just to visit, you know, the family visit. But yeah, the other things, I wouldn’t know anything about, or didn’t notice it because, you know, we didn’t hang out on the street or anything like that, we’d just visit family, and I was a kid. JJ: Do you remember the neighborhood at all, how it was, was it...? RL: Yeah, it was nice, I mean, ’cause I [still?] could picture the train station right there in Armitage, and I used to walk through that area growing up, as a teenager I used to walk in that area también. But I remember it was still -- in those days everything was simple, you know, it wasn’t gentrified, is what I mean, the difference. Right now, you go there, there’s nightlife, and restaurants, and bars, and the noise, you know, and it’s a whole different -- in those days, it was just quiet and simple. You know? People -- just blue-collar people. JJ: Like worker, working people. RL: Yeah, just, yeah, exactly. Yeah, just (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: Was there a lot of violence there or anything, like a Humboldt Park [gang leader?], or...? 25 �RL: [00:32:00] Not in that area, not in my brother’s area, but there was a lot of violence in my area. Yeah. Growing up, we had the highest homicide rate in the nation. JJ: Right, in that area, in the Cabrini-Green area. RL: No, no, in Humboldt Park. JJ: Oh, in Humboldt Park, oh yeah. RL: Humboldt Park, as a teenager. JJ: Oh, so when you were [growing up?]. RL: And I remember seeing that sometimes, in the newspaper, when I was reading it, ’cause I used to read the paper all the time, ever since I was in third grade, going to St. Sylvester, ’cause -- see, I went to Schiller, and then when we moved to Humboldt Park, my parents, you know, I finished my second grade at Schiller, and then we went to St. Sylvester. The beginning -- JJ: Oh, so you went to school at St. Sylvester, okay. RL: Yeah, the beginning of the school year, we started -- third grade, for me, and then I had a sibling in fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth -- you know, ’cause there was so many of us, so we had every -- everybody was in a different grade at St. Sylvester when we transferred. JJ: And actually, that became a big stronghold, Puerto Rican stronghold, in terms of the church. RL: Oh yeah, St. Sylvester church. JJ: And my uncle was part of that too. RL: Yeah. [00:33:00] Very strong, my parents and other -- you know, their friends -- 26 �JJ: And your friends were there at that [school?]? RL: Yeah, they had a very, very strong Puerto Rican community within the church and -- JJ: Caballeros de San Juan. RL: Caballeros San Juan, my dad was a member of that. JJ: Oh, he was a member? RL: Oh yeah. JJ: At St. Sylvester? RL: It started at St. Francis of Assisi. JJ: Oh, so he started there as a Caballero de San Juan. RL: Oh yeah, yeah, their first wave of I’m assuming, you know, the ’50s is when the big wave of Puerto Ricans came. JJ: Right. RL: And that’s when they started all these organizations, you know, to... JJ: Okay, so your mo-- that’s why you were saying your mother and your father were kinda strict. Did you say that, “strict,” or am I putting that (inaudible)? RL: No, no, “strict,” meaning they’ll whip your ass in a minute with a belt. (laughter) Yeah. (inaudible) clarify, the strict part, not just, “Don’t do that or I’ll get mad,” you know, nah, they don’t even -- you do that, you just, you’re gonna get a belt. JJ: A belt whooping. (laughs) RL: You’re gonna know it in a second, not to do it. Which was very effective, because, you know, it’s hard raising 12 kids, [00:34:00] first of all, but then the elements on the streets. I give ’em credit because, you know, bottom line, I was 27 �wrong. Even though, as a kid, you’re thinking, “What am I doing wrong?” I mean, this is just, kiddie stuff, you know, this is just, teenage stuff, or kid stuff, I mean, “Everybody else is doing it.” But luckily, they kept me on the straight and narrow with that. And I think that was it too, you know, I wasn’t afraid of the streets, I was more afraid of my parents. You know? I mean, not that these guys on the streets couldn’t do, yeah, my parents, you know, that belt, shit, you know. And then after a while, the belt didn’t hurt! I mean, I could get hit with a belt and it wouldn’t hurt me. It got to the point where the ironing cord, you know, the white and black ironing cord, that shit hurts! (laughter) ’Cause, you know, the belt didn’t hurt, and they knew it, and after a while. And then you cry before they even hit you with a belt anyway, and you act like you’re dead before they even touch you, and, [00:35:00] you know, all that stuff didn’t work though. (laughs) So no, I think it really helped, though. It really, really helped. Yeah, because... JJ: They were also religious, or no? RL: Yeah, very religious. We’d go to church every Sunday, and then we’d also pray at night, the rosary. Yeah, they had a little, I don’t know, sanctuary or something? JJ: Altar? RL: Yeah, a little altar at home, you know, made out of wood and stuff like that. And I have a picture of it too, ’cause I got some pictures just recently of the inside of, you know, our apartment. JJ: We probably are gonna call you for some pictures. 28 �RL: Yeah, and I hadn’t seen these until my aunt passed away recently, about June or July, in July she passed away. And I never really saw -- JJ: Is there any way you can put ’em on a disc, or anything, or...? RL: Shoot, I don’t know how to do -- I’m not too electronically inclined, you know, but I’ll see what I can do, ’cause they’re at work too, I coulda brought ’em with me. Yeah. JJ: We have a scanner, but we’re gonna take off tonight (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). RL: Yeah, in the background, I could see the [00:36:00] altar, you know, like, “Wow, check that out.” JJ: Yeah, we had an altar too, but my mother got into that spirit -- (Spanish) [00:36:06]. RL: Oh, santería? JJ: San-- not santería, something similar. RL: Something similar? JJ: [Not real deep?]. RL: Right, right. JJ: But, so I didn’t know what -- was -- “Are we doing the Catholic [name?] things today, or the spiritual?” But yours was all Catholic. RL: Oh yeah, ours was straight up Catholic. JJ: They didn’t -- (Spanish) [00:36:23]? RL: Oh, no, no, no, they wouldn’t. JJ: So it wasn’t [into that?] 29 �RL: They wouldn’t even go there, you know. JJ: So they don’t (inaudible)? RL: Right. So it was all Catholic, we’d say the rosary, and then we had to kneel down, cement floor. You know, during the part of the rosary where you’re supposed to kneel down, I guess, and we’d do it as a family, all of us. We’d fall asleep, but hey, you fall asleep, you -- there’d be times they would take out that belt. “Let’s see who falls asleep now!” (laughter) JJ: That was a thing [at night?], a regular thing. RL: Yeah, it was a regular thing. Yeah. JJ: ’Cause I remember in the ’40s, [they had to do that?] in [00:37:00] Puerto Rico, so (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). RL: Oh, okay. JJ: They just brought the culture here. RL: Yeah, exactly. ’Cause I’m sure it was going on over there, and they just -- yeah, they brought it over here. The rosary, you know, my dad would lead the rosary, and we’d all read Spanish -- everything was in Spanish, to this day I only speak to my parents in Spanish. You know, that’s the only way we spoke to them growing up, in Spanish. JJ: But they spoke English, though. RL: Not necessarily. My dad, of course, ’cause he started working in the factories, so he picked up the language easier. My mom, she was working when she moved back -- 30 �JJ: What kind of work did your mom do? Your father was in a factory (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Right. And my mom started working when she came back -- when she came from Puerto Rico with the three children, she worked at the Oscar Mayer plant over by Cooley High. The Oscar Mayer plant was there. And I’m sure it was a good job, and things like that, but once she started having more kids, then she had to drop out and not work to stay home and take care of the kids. JJ: Did she -- a lot of years that she worked at Oscar Mayer, or...? RL: See, I wonder how many years... JJ: (inaudible) RL: But she was having kids so fast, so maybe it wasn’t [00:38:00] that many years, but, you know, I’m assuming she might have worked there thr-- four years, or something. Yeah. JJ: [And we were asking?] about the other sibling, what kind of (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Oh, then Raul, then Wilfredo, my third brother. Oldest brother. He’s a factory worker, blue-collar. Then there’s Alicia, my sister, she clerked for a judge, worked as a court clerk for -- to this day, in the federal court. JJ: In the federal court? RL: In the federal court, downtown. JJ: Is she still -- how many years? I mean, has she worked a lotta years? RL: Yeah, she could retire now. JJ: She’s retired? 31 �RL: She’s already [beyond, yeah?]. She just -- JJ: [This is the?] federal judge, in downtown? RL: Yes. JJ: Okay. RL: Yeah, with the federal judges, right there on Dearborn. And things like that. And then, Dearborn and Jackson. And then, who comes after? William, my brother William. He worked -- he went to the service, and then he ended up with a railroad, one of the railroad companies, and now he’s with United Airlines. [00:39:00] And then David, the brother after him, he worked for the railroad also, still does to this day. And then there was the brother named Orlando, and I’m going in descending order, so, you know, three boys, one girl, then three more boys, and then another girl. So then the third boy out of that order, Orlando, he passed away around eight-- he was around 18. He was sort of the black sheep in the family, he got caught up on the streets a little more than the rest of us, and he ended up owing some guy some money and the guy stabbed him to death. And I remember getting that call as a 16-year-old, you know, they called the house and I remember picking it up and talking to the police officer, asking us to, you know, come identify the body. Yeah, so. JJ: So you got [the call?], they told you to come and identify the body? RL: Yeah, I remember telling my dad, and I went with them, yeah. Yeah, so, I remember that. JJ: So you guys were pretty tight-knit (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Oh, yeah, yeah. 32 �JJ: Pretty much, or (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:40:00] It was a big thing. Yeah. It was... Yeah, we were pretty tight, yeah. And then after Orlando came Lucy, who’s a year older than me. She ended up going to -- well, the first oldest of the girls, I think she was the first one to go to college. She went to Rosary College, which is Dominican University now. And then Lucia -- then our other brothers, well, three of ’em went to the service, and then Lucia, the sister older than me, one year older, she ended up going to Loyola University, and graduating from there. And then there was me. JJ: So what’s she doing now? [I mean, she graduated?]? RL: She works for the U.S. probations department. In the computers -- JJ: Oh, computer? RL: In computers. And she’s been there many, many, many years also. Yeah. So she could retire, I’m sure, soon. And then... Let’s see... Elena, who was one year younger than me, she graduated [00:41:00] from Dominican University, you know, Rosary College. And, where does she work? She works for an insurance company. JJ: Okay. RL: Yeah. And then after her, Teresa, my other sister -- JJ: And I think I met Teresa, she went to Michigan for one of the camps that we had. RL: Oh, really? Oh, okay. JJ: I think, yeah. 33 �RL: She’s more of a businesswoman, so, she had a couple of stores in Oak Park, clothing stores. JJ: Clothing? RL: Uh-huh. JJ: Now one of them had a, was it a beauty salon or something? Was that Lucia or something? (inaudible) RL: Oh, matter of fact, Lucy, she has a restaurant in -- with her husband. They have a restaurant in Oak Park -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Okay, [that’s a restaurant?] -- RL: -- right now, called Hemmingway Bistro. JJ: Hemmingway Bistro... RL: Very good restaurant. They’ve been there over 10 years now. They’re gonna actually open a -- they bought another building in Oak Park, and they’re gonna, I believe, have another restaurant. JJ: Yeah, ’cause I think Teresa left that number for us to call. RL: Oh, okay. JJ: And if we had other events or anything like that. RL: Oh, okay. And then the youngest is [Danny?], he graduated from Rosary College, you know, [00:42:00] Dominican University, they call it now. Yeah, and so I was the only one that went beyond college in terms of graduate studies, which was, in my case, was law school. JJ: And recently, you were involved in, was that the first time you ran for judge? 34 �RL: Yeah, one thing I always knew I was gonna do when I went to Wisconsin, when I even mar-- before I even married my first wife in Wisconsin, I told her, “Hey, I’m going back to Chicago.” You know, so, because she was born and raised in Wisconsin, and so I knew, you know, lotta Wisconsin people don’t really like to come to Chicago, and a lotta Chicago people don’t like to go to Wisconsin. So I told her, I said, “Before I marry you, I gotta let you know, I’m moving back to Chicago at some point in my career, so -- to get involved in politics, so, let me know if you can handle that.” So she, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.” So that was all good. And the reason why I was always intrigued by politics is, first of all, I used to read the paper since third grade. The newspaper, the daily paper here in Chicago. ’Cause there was a store in the neighborhood, you know, [00:43:00] Puerto Rican-owned, regular mom-and-pop place, and the store owner would give me a dime, at that time, for a newspaper, that’s what it was, in the box, the Sun-Times box, or whatever, the newspaper. And I’d take two of ’em, give the store owner one, and take one with me as I walked to school. So I would read the sports, I was more into the sports and stuff like that, and the teachers, when I get to school, they would take the paper, ’cause they wanna read it anyway, so they’d read it and give it back to me. So I was always reading about Chicago history, and the sports, and then I’d read the news, also. But the main thing was, during one particular period was the Harold Washington days. I mean, that was a fascinating time to be in Chicago, if you wanna learn about politics, that was some crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. I mean, it was cold-blooded, it was racial, it was everything that politics shouldn’t be. It was. I mean, it was just cold-blooded. 35 �But, the beauty of it was, it galvanized the people. The [00:44:00] Latinos, the African Americans, people who were disenfranchised, I mean, these people had no-- we really didn’t have nothing going on in our communities, in terms of not only political power, but services. Basic services. We all pay our taxes, we’re supposed to have equal services, our schools were real bad. Basic services were real bad, our neighborhoods were run down. And the way you fight that is, you know, some political juice. I mean, we saw that. We saw it in those days. You go in the north side, go in different parts of the city, where different aldermen have some pull, and they took care of their neighborhoods. Ours were treated like garbage, really, a dump. So then, once Harold Washington came about, which was, in those days, a miracle, for a Black man to run Chicago, we’re talking 25 years ago? And he won, because of the people. The power of the people, it was fascinating. It was cool. It was very nice. Unfortunately, he passed away in his second term, [00:45:00] but his first term wasn’t easy. The first term, you know, all the politicians that were aldermen in those days, a majority were white, they were just pushing back, they were trying to get rid of him, they were trying to discipli-- you know, disrespect him, they were doing whatever they could to retain their power. I mean, Chicago was a power-driven city. And still is. But... Unfortunately, he, you know, had a heart attack, 25 years ago. And in his second term, he was gonna do a lot, because again, the first term, he was being held back a lot. But, the second term, he was gonna do a lot, but he passed away. So anyway, and I was involved, I had cousins who were involved, Luisa Quinones and Noemy Quinones, they were involved in that, and I 36 �had a good buddy, [Oscar Ortiz?], at that time who grew up with me, he was involved in that, so I would watch. You know, I would see that. And one thing I learned, though, by watching all this, was that, if you really wanna be involved [00:46:00] in a more advanced way, I don’t know what the word -- you know, if you wanna really be involved, get a law degree, or be somebody. ’Cause the people -- you know, most of the people that I knew were door-knockers. I didn’t do that, I never knocked on doors, but I saw it, and they were mainly the people who were -- who didn’t have, really, the college degree and things like that, it seemed like those who were more educated had higher positions in the political arena. So if you were a lawyer, if you were, you know, higher education, whatever, master’s, you seemed to have more ability to do things. For the community, especially, too. So my -- what I saw from all that was, I gotta, you know, I gotta educate myself. And then I’ll come back, ’cause I don’t wanna be a door-knocker. I wanna be somebody that, when I sit at the table, we could talk, and they won’t try to treat me as a, you know, [00:47:00] less than they should. Anyway, and we should all be equal, of course, but sometimes the lack of education could hinder that. So. JJ: [So, you were?]... RL: So, going back to your point, yes, I ran for judge. I ran for judge in the March primaries. So, to me, that was a big thing, ’cause I knew that’s what I wanted to do in terms of coming back to Chicago, run for a political office, get involved in a political arena. But what also helped me to get into the political arena was the job I have, and I still can really have, with the Cook County Clerk of Court. When 37 �I got that job, I was very, very happy, because I knew, “Okay good, I could finally get into the political arena. ’Cause I’m gonna work for elected official, and now I could see how,” you know, “the system works from the inside now.” Before, I was an outsider, as a kid. Now I could actually come here, not only as a lawyer, but now I can work with an elected official, and get a bird’s-eye view of what goes on. And, [00:48:00] you know, and hopefully make my move, which was running for judge. And... JJ: So how did that work, I mean, how’d you get that going, and...? RL: You know, and I had my own way of thinking, as to how people should run for office, or how people should do what they have to do to get elected. My thing was, you know, you should knock on people’s doors and get to know people, you should go to train stations and get to know people, you should go to churches, you should go to the community and introduce yourself and let them know what you’re doing and why you wanna do it. And I did, I did it the old-fashioned way. People don’t do that anymore, I did it the old-fashioned way, and it worked. Did I win? No, but did it really, you know, elevate me to a position of awareness? Yeah. Yeah. And then, I think I was doing things that were forgotten traits, you know, the political process, which is to actually get out there, you know. JJ: And [00:49:00] did you build, like, your own organization and work with the Democratic machine, or [no?]? RL: Well, yeah, that’s the way it works, I remember being at St. Sylvester with my petition, you know, you needed 1,000 signatures. I was by myself, with that one sheet of paper, or that one pen and those sheets of paper, collecting signatures. 38 �But I also knew, the reason why I was doing it, too, I also knew that it was gonna be a snowball effect. I knew that it was gonna be a tiny snowball, me by myself, but I knew as things -- people got to know me, and as I was out there doing what I had to do, that that snowball was gonna progress as time went on. And election was in March, I was out there in September, which was unheard of, really, for somebody to be out there in September for a March, six-months-later election. ’Cause they don’t really get out there till way later, you know, in the game. But I was out th-- I knew what -- I knew I had a lotta work to do. I was by myself, [00:50:00] but I -- again, I knew that snowball effect. And it happened that way. People started helping me, getting involved, they got to know me, and volunteers would call, people I didn’t know, you know. Friends -- it’s funny, ’cause I remember sometimes I said, you know, “Friends became strangers and strangers became friends.” Because a lot of people that I didn’t know would help me, people that I thought would help me weren’t helping me. And because I’m the type of guy, I will help anybody, you know, I won’t ask for anything in return. But yet, I saw that some people didn’t help me when I needed them, but that was okay, because that’s how you learn, you continue learning about people and situations. And so, it was all good. It was a lot of work, it was a lot of work, I was up in the morning at the trains, I was at trains at night, I was at church on Sunday, Saturdays I had a group of people knocking on doors, they said, “Judges don’t knock on --” People would respond, “Are you running for judge? Judges don’t come looking for votes.” You know. ’Cause they [00:51:00] don’t, 39 �judges don’t knock on doors. I was doing things the way I thought it should be done. It was pretty exciting, though. JJ: So you had some opponents, or...? RL: Yeah, there were five people running. JJ: Okay. RL: There was four guys, and one female. The female was the Democratic-slated candidate, she was Puerto Rican. This other guy that was running was Puerto Rican, myself, Puerto Rican, and two Anglos were running. And -- JJ: And your area, what was the boundaries? RL: There was 10 wards, which included Humboldt Park -- JJ: There were 10 wards, okay. RL: -- most of the minority wards. Majority -- a lot of the minority wards. You know, Logan Square, Humboldt Park, going all the way west, you know, Chicago, west, almost towards Central, practically, you know, Laramie. It would go as far -- it was a lot, it was 10 wards, which is, I didn’t realize it was gonna be that much work, but hey, I had to do it. And it was great ’cause, the funny thing is, ’cause the three Puerto Ricans, [00:52:00] we all had mutual friends, so it was kinda hard to -- some of your friends won’t support you because they were supporting this person, or they were supporting that person, so it’s kind of an interesting scenario going on there. The Democratic-slated candidate, the Puerto Rican female, she ended up winning. And luckily, her and I -- I went in there with nothing but respect, I did not go in there to engage in dirty politics, ’cause I don’t see a need for that. So I came out looking good in this election because I was -- 40 �the Democratic Party saw that I was just out there doing what I had to do to try to win. I wasn’t trying to step on somebody’s toe to do it, I was just out there to do it, the old-fashioned way. Let the people decide. JJ: So why didn’t you try to get in the Democratic slate at that time? RL: I did. I actually did. Because what you do is, you go in front of the committee, there’s like 10 of ’em, and then they vote and decide. JJ: 10 because there were 10 wards, or...? RL: Exactly. One committee member per ward. JJ: [00:53:00] So you went in front of the committee of the ward? RL: Yeah. So all of us did, there was, like, four or five of us, you know, candidates, who met up, at a restaurant, and then the committee were in a room. So we go in one by one, and basically sell yourself, and explain why you want them to back you and why they should back you and things like that. So they ended up backing the Puerto Rican female. JJ: But then you decided anyway. You were just stubborn, or...? RL: No, because what happened was, at that time, it was just a matter of, you know, deciding what you wanna do as the days went by, and things like that. And I just saw, too, I was working hard, and I didn’t wanna -- remember, it started as a little snowball, now it seemed like a big snowball, and it was hard, not to -- people counting on you. People helping you. People believing in you. [00:54:00] And that’s -- it would’ve been hard to drop out of the race, it would’ve been hard, so, you know. But... JJ: So you went all the way through with (inaudible)? 41 �RL: Yeah, I went all the way through. JJ: And how did you do it? I mean, how... RL: I ended up coming in last place. The guy ahead of me, he had -- the guy ahead of me, the Puerto Rican guy, he had the former judge position, he retired, the former judge backing him, other politicians backing him, and yet he wasn’t even that far ahead of me. I didn’t have anybody backing me, any politicians or anything. Which was amazing. And limited resources, in terms of putting money out into the campaign. I mean, one person who lost in the race, the Anglo guy, one of the Anglo guys, he spent like 200,000. I mean, that’s a lot of money. JJ: Right. RL: And he didn’t win. Again, the Puerto Rican guy, he had all these politicians backing him, and he only had maybe [00:55:00] 400 more votes than me. So, I actually came out looking real good, based on the lack of resources, based on the lack of support. But I had the support of the community, which was very important. JJ: So did you set up an office, or no? RL: No. JJ: You didn’t [at the time?]? RL: No, what we’d do is we’d meet once a week, the committee of us, and we strategized what we’d do that weekend, Saturday, Sunday. So every Wednesday, we’d meet, we had some wine, some food, you know, just relax and think about, “Okay, what’s our next move? Where we gonna go on Saturday and Sunday?” What fundraiser we may have, things like that. 42 �JJ: So you were doing fundraisers and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Yeah, that was, you know, so I -- my fundraisers were not typical, “Come and support me.” ’Cause, “Who are you?” Nobody’s gonna come. So I did more of a marketing thing, like, yeah, sure, “Support me,” but [00:56:00] it was more of a party type of thing I was advertising. I mean, it was a party, it was food, it was drinks, dancing, you know, it’s a good cause, so... JJ: And that cause, your main cause, what was your main cause? RL: Me. (laughs) You know what I’m saying? Support my candidacy. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Support your candidacy. RL: But that wasn’t the focus, the focus was, “Let’s have fun and do this.” You know? JJ: Okay, all right. So it was civil. RL: And then I know, you know what -- JJ: Like a civic thing. RL: Right, and that was never done that way before. Now, people are starting to do that. I see that now, politicians are out there advertising, almost, similar to the way I did it. You know? The most recent one was last week or two weeks ago, I went to a jazz club for a fundraiser, and it was advertised almost the way I -similar to the way I would do it. JJ: So people [that?] more like party, family, getting together? RL: Yeah, I think -- JJ: Not so much family, but party (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- RL: Yeah, ’cause I felt like people are not [00:57:00] gonna come and just give you money -- 43 �JJ: -- civic thing, with fun. RL: Yeah, ’cause even I did something with the word fundraiser. I put F-U-N in parentheses, and called it a FUN-raiser, without the D, I dropped the D, and things like that, I mean, I just went to a different type of -- reaching the people on a different way. You know? JJ: If you won, what did you want accomplish? RL: What I wanted to do would be an active judge. And what I mean by that is, I thought it’d give me more credibility, because I enjoyed talking to children, I enjoyed talking to senior citizens and people in the community. I wanted to go and, as a judge now, and talk to kids and say, “Look it, this is where I came from, and this is where I’m at, and you can do it.” Because I tell kids, I say, “You know what? On the first day of school, what -- if you were to give yourself a grade, what would it be?” A lot of ’em may not [00:58:00] respond, I’ll tell ’em, I say, “It’s an A. ’Cause that first day of school, as you sit there, everybody in this class has an A. Because we’re all on the same page, we all have the capability, we all have an A. The issue is holding onto that A as, by doing homework, by studying, by completing assignments, and as the year progresses, the semester progresses, but right now, you’re an A student. So, how bad do you want it? What do you have to do? Look at me, I grew up in Cabrini-Green, I grew up in Humboldt Park, I grew up with gangbangers, my friends were dying, I have a friend on death row, you know. From Humboldt Park. [Juan Caraballo?], he’s still on death row, in Stateville. And then I have a friend who, in the same neighborhood, kitty-corner from each other, went to Harvard Law School. He 44 �grew up in a family of 13 kids, Anglo family. A family of 13, this kid went to Harvard Law School, doing well now, and is a partner in the law firm. You know. [00:59:00] So, you know, and I have another friend from St. Sylvester who became the first Hispanic judge in Lake County. Jorge Ortiz. And yet we all grew up in that environment, but again, it’s, you know, there’s a lot of things that go on in people’s lives that affect their ability to move forward. You know. But I would love to go and let these kids know, “Yeah, you know, I grew up this way, but it’s possible. You just gotta have a little more focus and not be -- not allow others to drive you this way, or take you that way. You gotta take it.” JJ: So it’s possible -- so what do you think needs to be done for these -- what do these kids need to do to do what you did, [basically?]? RL: Well, the main thing is just to -- I mean, education’s everything. Why? Because my parents, they harped about education all the -- we had to do our [01:00:00] homework, we had to -- even though they only had third grade, fourth grade education, my mom, I think, had an eighth grade education, my dad, third grade education. Yet, they harped about school all the time. Doing your homework, and school was very important, that’s why they sent us to Catholic grade school and things like that, even though, you know, resources were very limited. I mean, I remember getting toys from the church for Christmas because we couldn’t afford a lot of stuff. But, you know, I think with my story, they could see that even with that type of background, because a lot of it is similar to what they’re experiencing, see, and they just gotta hear it. See, we don’t have role models out there, we don’t see ourselves in that position because we don’t see it, 45 �a person of that ability. A Puerto Rican doctor, a Puerto Rican lawyer, a Puerto Rican president, we just don’t see it. Because they don’t come visit us, they don’t come talk to us, they don’t come and show that they are us, they are where I’m at now [01:01:00] as a third grader, fourth grader, sixth grader, high school kid. I mean, those people experienced what I experience. You know, when they hear a speaker. I have good credibility when I speak because, for example, my own clients, as a public defender. I could tell ’em my background, they’ll know we’re on the same page, you know. I remember one time I went to Cook County jail with a friend of mine who’s a lawyer, ’cause he had a client, and as a favor I just went with him to go visit the guy, and the guy -- the defendant, okay, the guy in jail is explaining how the crime occurred. And I’m sitting there listening, and after he finished I told him, “It didn’t happen that way, I’ll tell you how it happened. This is the way it happened.” Why? Because my own background on the streets -- I know how -- so this guy was just bullshitting the lawyer, my friend, but as I’m listening, I know what I know, growing up on the streets of Chicago, I know that’s not how we would do things. [01:02:00] So when I can do that, then they could relax with me, knowing that I could have, that we could communicate now. “Okay, don’t bullshit me, I’m here to help you, so let’s do it. I’ll be for real, you be for real.” So on and so forth. And kids know when you’re for real, especially young people. If I’m going to a school and talk to a kid, and try to sell ’em on going to school and being educated and being successful, you know, I’m not gonna go on there and say, “Yeah, I grew up -- my parents gave me everything in life, and you guys shouldn’t complain.” You know? “You should 46 �-- you just gotta deal with life.” Nah, I tell ’em, “Hey, life is not easy. It was never easy.” That’s the beauty of it, though. That’s the beauty of it, ’cause if it wasn’t, it’d be too boring. You know? JJ: So what are you doing today, I mean, in terms of your -- the lawyer, are you still a public defender, or...? RL: Nah, right now I work for the court system, so I can represent people. I’m a deputy general counsel at the Cook County Clerk of Court’s office. JJ: What -- [01:03:00] [I don’t know -- what do you mean?]? RL: And what they do, the Cook Clerk of Court, they gather all the -- any paper that you file in court, we’re in charge of. We put it in a folder, and we file it, so any document in a court case, any paper in that file, we’re responsible for it. JJ: For any cases, criminal, or...? RL: In any case in any Cook County. Any case in Cook County. So that’s a big -- JJ: Civil or criminal, to both? RL: Criminal, civil, I mean, traffic, anything that comes into the court system -- JJ: Goes through your office. RL: We deal with it. And we’re, like, the second biggest in the nation. Cook Court system. JJ: Court system. RL: Yeah, we’re that busy. So, it’s a interesting, you know, place to be. I enjoyed litigation, when I was a litigator, in court fighting for my clients, because I thought it was good to try to talk to a jury. I don’t know if -- a lot of attorneys aren’t good with juries. 47 �JJ: Litigation means trying (inaudible) attorneys (inaudible)? RL: Huh? JJ: Litigation means trying (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: Yeah, you’re right, [01:04:00] trying a case to a jury of 12 people. JJ: Okay. RL: And I enjoy doing that because I could be for real with the jury. A lot of attorneys don’t know how to relate to people because, for their background, whatever, they just, sometimes they forget that -- ’cause sometimes lawyers think of themselves up here, and then the jury, you know, common folks that we are, down here, and they see that, you gotta come down if you wanna communicate, you gotta make sure you’re at the same eye level, and make sure you could get their point across. JJ: So that’s a pretty good job. Why do you wanna run for the judge thing? RL: Because I wanna - the reason why I wanted to run for judge was to allow me to continue. ’Cause my ultimate goal, and I think it’s important that people have goals in life, because then you’re not gonna get bored, because you’re always trying to work towards something else, you know, and every time you accomplish something, that’s a big thing. But then, does that mean you [01:05:00] stop accomplishing? No, because if you have another goal, then whether it’s education or something that you have to work towards, at least you know, “Okay, that’s what I have to do, I have to work t--” So in my case, being a judge was gonna give me that [instant?] credibility so I could go in the neighborhood, do what I wanted to do in the community. My ultimate goal, I tell people, is to 48 �become the first Hispanic mayor of Chicago. Will that ever happen? I don’t know. But it’s the same as people saying, you know, “Shoot for the moon, and you’re amongst the stars, at the very least.” So it’s the same mindset, you know, I’ve always been inspired by Harold Washington, and things like that, and politicians like that. And so I say that, so I, you know, I consciously work towards that, so I was very satisfied when I ran for judge, because I never, you know -JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) the first election is usually an experience for the experience. RL: Exactly, it is, and you’re right. JJ: [And, so that was good?]. RL: And get your name out there so [01:06:00] people know who you are. You know, you gettin’ off the bench, I respect those that get off the bench than just sit on the bench. I may talk about it, but if I don’t do anything about it, it’s all talk. So. JJ: Now, since Harold Washington, ’cause I think he opened the doors for a lot of Latinos, you know, I mean a lot of people, but I mean Latinos also. Have you seen other Latinos more since that period of time move up the ladder...? RL: Yeah, yeah. And, you know -- JJ: I mean, are they working all over the...? Within the Democratic party, I mean, are they working within...? RL: Yeah, I mean there are some good politicians out there, Hispanic and African American, but are they really helping us as a community? To a certain extent. To a certain extent. Why? Because I’d rather have ’em in there than not have ’em, because I remember how it was when we didn’t have ’em. Some of ’em are 49 �limited and, you know, they limit themselves, I guess, in their ability to [01:07:00] really help the community. I think they could take us farther. JJ: Do they do it intentional, or -- what do you mean they limit themselves? RL: I know, that’s kinda sad, a sad thought, do they do it intentional? Maybe. Maybe some do. JJ: If they do it intentional, they just wanna get the job and that’s it. RL: The prestige, the money, the power. Yeah. ’Cause there’s not enough of us out there, so the few that we have, you know, they’re almost on the -- not the level of God, but they’re up there, the people give ’em that without them actually proving themselves. I mean, I’d rather see you -- you know, I give it to you but, show me, you know, you should deserve it though. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) the job, they just got put on there. RL: Right. JJ: Without skills, is that what you’re saying, or...? RL: They may have the skills -- JJ: I don’t wanna put -- RL: -- no, they may have the -- JJ: I don’t wanna put words in your mouth. RL: Right, they may have the skills, but it’s the power trip, you know, they’re making their money, they’re making -- [01:08:00] you know, they get complacent. They get complacent. Maybe that was their -- again, maybe that was their goal to be aldermen, and then, “Okay, what’s your next goal? Now you became an alderman, what is it you wanna do with that? Do you wanna just make money 50 �and cut deals and just do minimal for the community, or are you gonna maximize and do everything that you aspired to do when you did run for this office?” You know, there’s a difference between wanting to do something, talking about doing something, and actually doing it. See? So that’s why I think they do have the right attitude and the right heart when they do run, and then they do win, and they love it, they celebrate it with the community, but now what? What are you gonna do with it? I mean, we put you in the driver’s seat, but how far are you gonna take us? JJ: So what do you think holds them down? ’Cause it’s sorta like, they jump, they’re jumping up and then they [01:09:00] stop. So (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) RL: Right, I think they fall into the trap of their peers. And when I say peers I mean, like, the other aldermen who have been there for many years, more the -- it could be other aldermans, whether they’re white, Black, or Spanish, who have been there for many years, and maybe their focus is just to make money, and they’re teaching you the game. You know, “Just keep your mouth shut, or just do it this way, and we could work it together. Now, if we don’t work it together, you’re gonna be an outsider, and you’re gonna be limited. We’re not gonna give you much of the pie. You want a piece of the pie? Work with us, we’ll share with you.” But... JJ: That’s straightforward, [then?]. (laughs) Is that what you’re saying? RL: Yeah. I mean, there are some renegades out there that don’t fall into that trap, that want to do what they can for the whole community, and fight the powers that be to get that [01:10:00] slice of the pie to share with the people, you know. 51 �Evenly. But I mean, the schools are still messed up, I mean, there’s just too much, our people are just screwed. Are we screwing ourselves? I mean, what is our problem? The same issues that I saw when I was a kid, a teenager, you saw in the community that you guys fought for. JJ: What were those issues? That you saw. RL: Lack of education, lack of opportunity, jobs. At the very least, that we were, [if had?] good education, you know... We’re not graduating from high school. We’re not graduating from college. I mean, education’s everything. I mean, it opens your mind to question, you know, and look at things differently, or at least question instead of just allowing somebody to tell you that, “This is blue, so [01:11:00] believe me it’s blue, even if it’s not,” you know. They may have the handkerchief over and say, “Just trust me, there’s something blue under here.” But, you know, education is the bottom line. Why? Because then, that next generation, you’re gonna help educate them too. We can’t just rely on teachers. I help my kid with his homework and things like that ’cause I realize, teachers have a role, but so do parents. You know? You really wanna maximize your kid’s abilities, it takes more than just going to a school. When they’re young like that, I mean, you have to help them and motivate them and make them feel good about going to school and saying, “Yeah, this is good, I wanna go back to school and raise my hand when a teacher has a question and challenge her or him,” and feel like their brain is working, they’re being creative and they’re actually learning, instead of being bored and feeling like “Oh, I’m not as smart as the next [01:12:00] person.” And just allowing yourself to vegetate, really. Come home, 52 �watch movies, and forget about. You know, almost giving up. Almost giving up, even though you got a brain that’s priceless, you know. But... JJ: So what are some of the other issues? I know we did discuss, like, police abuse at that time. And we discussed housing [in that?] -- is that a problem today, too, or no? RL: Well, gangs, gang issues are still a problem. Why? There’s no excuse for that, really. But at the same time, I remember when we grew up, there was boys’ clubs, there was YMCAs, there was all kinds of community organizations and places you could go and be involved, and things like that. Now, there aren’t any. There aren’t any community things going on. There’s no YM-- you won’t find a YMCA or Boys & Girls Club in your neighborhood anymore. They’re replaced [01:13:00] by McDonalds, Burger King, or fast food joints, or businesses. And, you know, the contrast was, if you were in the suburbs, you go to school in those days, you could play sports, you could do this, you could do that, you could do all these things. Over here, yeah, you could say the same thing, but it’s not the same. I mean, I remember I played soccer at Illinois Benedictine for a couple years because they would give me, like, 800 bucks. For me, anything was good, so I could make some money to pay my tuition. I remember we played Lake Forest College. Man, those kids, they all had beautiful duffel bags, they all had the exact same ones and beautiful uniforms, and here we are with our, you know, little garbage bag, practically. I was like, “Wow, that’s pretty cool.” I mean, we don’t have that, but, you know, it’s the school system that buries us, or allows us 53 �-- or we bury ourselves, [01:14:00] too, though. It takes two. You know, it takes two. JJ: And you don’t think the housing was contributing at all, or...? You just think that if we fixed -- I just wanna get clear what you’re saying. So you’re saying that if we just fixed the school system, that would get people more educated and that would improve other services? RL: Right, it would improve our, you know, ourselves a lot, why? Because I think it allows us to -- the next generation to be hopefully, you know, the American Dream’s always that the next generation does better. But if we look at our -- the way things are going, partly because of the school system being as bad as it is, I may not graduate, my son may not graduate, my daughter may not graduate. But if I have a degree and understand the value of it, my son, my daughter may be tutored by me, even at home. People hire tutors out there, and it’s, like, amazing. Which is good, if they can afford it, [01:15:00] but yet, we don’t even come close to doing that. I mean, we don’t even do homework. Not we, 100 percent, but there’s parents out there who are just too busy. Why? They work, they both work, they’re tired, they come home. You know. They forget the most important investment is that child, though, in your own household. I mean, that’s really the biggest investment in your household, and you’re letting it go down the drain. I mean, like, when we educate ourselves, when we have kids, we’re gonna let them know how important education is, and we want them to do better than us. And we want them to be in first grade and not feel behind. Because we’re gonna be, you know, teaching. I remember, in college, between age of 54 �zero and two, a child, reading that their brain is like a sponge. I mean, they just, like, soak up information. So, when my kid was, when he was born, I was always interacting with him. Reading to him, talking to him, whatever, ’cause I knew that was an important window. And then thereafter, I would [01:16:00] take him to the book store with me. Instead of buying him books, I figured, “Hey, let’s just go have dinner, let’s go to a bookstore and relax.” And then he could read three, four, five books. So he understood, you know, there was a lot going on in life, by reading, and things like that. I’d read to him, when I would read I would stutter, because I want him -- because my thing is, when I say stutter, is because I think, if you know the alphabet, you could read. That’s what I say. So when I read to him, I show him the alphabet, so I would repeat the B in the word “butter” a couple of times, U, I would repeat it, so he could see that these are just letters that are put together. And so he’s a very good reader, he’s in a gifted school, Skinner, right now, which is -- you had to apply for. I mean, it’s funny, because nowadays we have gifted schools in this city. We didn’t have that before, we didn’t have any of that. But now that more people are living in the city, moving from the suburbs, we feel the need to have that type of service for them. But we didn’t feel the need to have that type of service for us when we were growing up [01:17:00] in the city. ’Cause I think everybody’s gifted, I mean, we’re all gifted, long as we have a brain, you could do a lot. If you’re brain damaged, I can understand the limitations, but as long as we have a brain and we have somebody that cares, a teacher, a parent, to help us along, you know. I feel bad when I see kids not really being -- don’t know how to read and stuff like that, 55 �because I’m thinking, “Wait a minute, at least that parent has a eighth grade education, so they --” You should be able to teach ’em, and your child, first grade reading, math, whatever, but parents don’t wanna involve themselves that much. You know, across the board, anyway. And so that, remember, there’s that cycle, and that sucks. That sucks. I mean, you wanna educate your kid, you can do it. You don’t have to rely on a teacher. I mean, you are going to, ’cause the child automatically goes, but he needs that tutor at home. He needs to see that the parent cares, that it’s important to the parent too. You know? That their child does well. ’Cause they get a lot of [01:18:00] reinforcement from the parents, too. “Wow, you did great,” you know. “Mira, Jose, you got an A, wow, that’s good, see, I’m glad you did your homework, we did your homework, yeah, we interacted.” Instead of popping a video in there, or a Game Boy, I don’t like Game Boys or whatever the kids do on TV, or. His mother bought him one, you know, my ex, but I’m not a big fan, and now she’s complaining he’s spending a lot of time on it, I say, “Well, what do you expect?” You know, “It’s catch-22, you buy it, he uses it, now you’re complaining? Come on.” (laughs) So, but... JJ: Any final thoughts? RL: Well, you know, and again, it goes back to -- it’s a collective, you know, it’s a collective. And what I see right now is that we’re thirsting for leadership, our community. [And I’ll call it?] Hispanic community, ’cause I see that more, you know, I’ll talk about our people. We’re thirsting for leadership, we don’t have it. We elected people, and we put ’em in positions of [01:19:00] leadership, and we wanted them to lead us. And, you know, they’re like tires in the winter, just 56 �squealing in the snow, you know, slip-sliding away. And we’re like, “Wow,” you know. And now we’re getting -- so it’s almost like we’re frustrating ourselves, you know, we’re getting frustrated and saying ”What the heck?” It’s almost like kids, we’re looking for that leadership, like a kid looking to their parents, and we do that with our leaders as adults. We’re like, “Where’s our leadership? We wanna move forward.” Which was why, when Obama won as president, President Obama, the Blacks of course, the African Americans, very, very happy, of course. But we were all also very happy, because that’s the closest that we could get to a minority person that we think our, you know, is a leader, and is gonna help us, and so on and so on. Imagine if some of us were in high positions, you know, Latinos. ’Cause we do, we do get some satisfaction, and we do get some pride and we, [01:20:00] you know, it kinda wakes us up. And then maybe we can start realizing, “Wait a minute, we can do it.” [John?] and [Jack?] from Humboldt Park, there’s that Young Lord who was doing drugs, and look at him. You know? I mean, we don’t see those stories, because right now we’re just so busy trying to make our money to survive. I mean, I’m just talking about people working, I mean, we’re just busy doing that, and it’s kinda hard on our kids, right, education and stuff, we don’t help them, but it’s hard on us too. That’s why we’re looking for our leaders to pull us a little bit, and we don’t have that. We have gangs, we have schools that are bad, we have just too much -we’re kind of giving up hope in a sense, you know, because, especially Latinos, because we have the church, that we don’t see it as strong as it used to be. We see kids being molested, and then we see the leadership not responding the 57 �way, [01:21:00] you know, the way they should, I guess, right? I mean, I’m not blaming the whole church because, again, in every profession, we have good, bad, and ugly. There’s a lot more good than bad. But the bad is what we have to deal with, and hopefully respond appropriately. So, that’s why I have that in the back of my mind as a goal, to become the first Hispanic mayor, because I saw it in Harold Washington, I saw what he did, and what he was going to do, and then he died. But, I’m sure Chicago would’ve been way different. JJ: And you said you worked on the Harold Washington campaign, what were you doing then? RL: No, my cousins were, my buddy was, and so I would, like, go watch -- go to the -when he won, or I’ll watch it on TV, or I’d read about it in the paper. You know. ’Cause I remember when [01:22:00] Harold -- Epstein or whatever the Republican -- JJ: Epton, yeah. RL: Epton, Epton. Was running, when the commercials showed, like a Black hand voting, and then the tag word was, “Before it’s too late,” you know, “Vote Epton before it’s too late.” I mean, it was so racist, I was like, “Wow! This is amazing, how 19-whatever!” Yeah. And commercials are just straight up racist. JJ: Well, he was being picketed and everything by Epton supporters. They were picketing him at the time. RL: Right? I mean, everything was -- it was just crazy. Even on TV, I remember the Council Wars. The way he was just -- JJ: The Council Wars, can you explain what that is, or...? 58 �RL: Yeah, it was basically the aldermen, for the most part, the white aldermen in Chicago. When Harold won, they ganged up as a group of 28, I believe it was, and Harold Washington, to get a lot of bills passed, or [01:23:00] ordinances, or whatever, laws, he would need them. He would need a majority, you know, at least. But the majority were the whites, so they would block almost everything he would do. So even though he was the mayor, he was like a lame duck mayor, because he wasn’t allowed to really run the city the way he wanted to, the way he thought would be a better -- to make the city better for everybody. But the power, the Council Wars, as they called it, because now, the 28 aldermen versus the mayor, and it was pretty ugly. It was -- you see it on TV, you read about it in the paper, but they didn’t care. I mean, power was the ultimate goal for the 28, they did not wanna lose it, especially to a Black man, especially to the minorities in the community, ’cause he represented -- he was gonna represent the minorities, ’cause we really didn’t have representation until he came along. And not only that, he was [01:24:00] gonna appoint Latinos and African Americans to a position of power in the city departments. Hell, we’re all taxpayers, we should all have equal rights, but you know. JJ: Actually, I think he said that publicly, like when they had the Puerto Rican parade, they had the first neighborhood festival in Humboldt Park. Do you recall it? It was, like, 100,000 people or something like that in Humboldt Park. RL: Wow. JJ: You don’t (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? RL: No, I don’t remember that. 59 �JJ: I think he said that publicly, then. RL: Oh, really good. JJ: About appointing Latinos. And he did (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). RL: Right, right, exactly, oh yeah. Yeah, it was good, it was good stuff. It was a lot of stuff happening in Humboldt Park, I mean, I remember the 1976 riots, Puerto Rican Day parade riots. JJ: The ’66 riots? RL: That was the first. The second one. JJ: Oh, the ’76 --? RL: The second was ’78. JJ: ’78, okay. RL: ’78, the second one, ’cause I was a sophomore and at Prosser. And that was the second riot, it was a two-day riot. A couple people died the first day, and the second day, I think a couple more [01:25:00] people got shot by the police, and businesses were burned, and everything. JJ: [Five people died?] in ’78, I wasn’t aware. RL: Yeah, 1978, the day of the Puerto Rican parade. And what happened was, ’cause I remember being there -- JJ: Oh, I was here, yeah, just saying, I didn’t remember. RL: Yeah, Google, man, that’s a good one. I mean, nowadays, you know. And that’s another thing, when I say Google. A lot of kids think they can’t go to college ’cause they can’t afford it, and I’m thinking, “Wow, all you gotta do is Google for scholarships and,” you know, “just put in some keywords and things’ll pop up, a 60 �little research, you’ll find some money out there.” A lot of people don’t do that, when I was young I had to go to Harold Washington Library downtown, which was at Randolph and Michigan, which is now the cultural center, and I would go in there and ask the librarian, you know, “I’m looking for scholarships, do you have a book on it?” And they’d give me these dusty old books that nobody was looking at and, you know, there was obsole-- half of the scholarship information in there was obsolete, wasn’t even in existence anymore. But I had to, you know, [01:26:00] find a way, I had to take the train and go downtown. Kids nowadays, they could just go on the computer and do some research, and hopefully find some money out there. And it is, there’s money out there. JJ: Now you mentioned your brother, Lugo, and you didn’t know Gladys was part of that too. RL: Right, right. JJ: And Edwin. RL: And Edwin, right. JJ: And Edwin is her -- Gladys’s brother. RL: Brother, exactly. JJ: So, Edwin [Diaz?]. RL: Right, Edwin Diaz. JJ: Now, you said he [talks?] -- you’re hearing some stuff about the Young Lords from him, or...? RL: No, I never really -- I didn’t -- JJ: [He?] never [talked about it, or...?] 61 �RL: No, no. JJ: Was he embarrassed of them, or...? RL: No, it just had -- you know, I was a different generation. JJ: Oh, you were a different generation. RL: Yeah, ’cause he -- I don’t know how old he is, but, what, maybe about 58, I’m guessing. 59. JJ: In terms of age? RL: Yeah, I mean [it was like?] there was a big gap, because he’s the second oldest and I’m one of the young ones, the babies, you know. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) RL: My crew was different, I was at home. [01:27:00] I was more of a kid, you know, and what they did on the street, they did. You know, I wouldn’t even know. JJ: But you wouldn’t -- he’s not considered someone involved with drugs, or gangs -- RL: No. JJ: -- or anything, but you never saw them do that? RL: No. But you know what, he did influence me in a positive way one time, because when I went to Holy Trinity, I was behind on credits, because again, I got D’s and F’s at Prosser. So I wasn’t gonna graduate on time. So I actually went to a counselor, and he signed me up for a fifth year of high school at Holy Trinity. And then for some reason, well, I was at my brother’s house one day, and I mentioned that to him. We were talking, and he mentioned how he went to colleges, he said, “Why don’t you go to college?” And that kinda surprised me, because nobody ever mentioned colle-- college was never in the picture for me, 62 �okay. I thought if I graduated from high school that was a big, big thing. And nobody ever mentioned it until he did, he said, “You should go to college.” And then [01:28:00] he backed it up by explaining why. He said, “You know what? I went to Berkeley, and Michigan, as a speaker, as a Young Lord.” ’Cause in those days, psychology and sociology were big things, and they’d invite some of the Young Lords to tour their college’s campus, and talk to the students, and stuff like that. So that kind of amazed me, ’cause first of all, I didn’t know anything about college, but second of all, I didn’t know he actually went to these major universities. JJ: I remember when he went to Berkeley, [I remember that?]. RL: Yeah, that kinda tripped me out, so that had a big effect on me. So what I did the next day, it was a Sunday, I was visiting with him at his house. I went to Holy Trinity, I told the counselor, I said, “You know what? I’m going to college. Whatever it is I gotta do to graduate this year, tell me, ’cause I’m not gonna do a fifth year of high school. So tell me what I gotta do.” So, he told me, “Well, take some correspondence courses.” Whatever -- this is what you had to do. And I [01:29:00] did, I took some correspondence courses besides my high school courses, and I was real busy, but I graduated. You know? And then I just, you know, ended up, of course, graduating from college and things like that, but yeah. It was because of him, because of that. Nobody ever said anything -- JJ: I remember, he traveled through the [whole coast?] of California, speaking at different -- RL: Oh, really? 63 �JJ: -- places, yeah, [I remember when?] he did that. RL: So, you know, so I helped his daughters, he had three daughters. All of ’em graduated from University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana. JJ: Lugos? Lugos? Okay. Good. RL: Yeah, uh-huh. And because -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) RL: Right, right, exactly. (laughter) So it was [funny?] because he inspired me, you know, I learned everything I learned about applying for school and everything on my own. And so, when the girls were getting to that age of applying for college, I would tell ’em, “Hey,” I was the one to [01:30:00] tell ’em exactly what to do. And they did, because they had a thirst for -- ’cause I could tell kids what to do, if they don’t listen, what good is it, right? I could give ’em the whatever, but if they won’t work it, you could lead ’em to water, if they don’t drink, then they’ll stay thirsty. But his girls, they listened to me, and they applied to -- I would tell ’em after their junior year, the summer of their junior year, you know, after the junior year, I said, “Right now’s the time you guys gotta apply for college. Get the application, start getting ready for those recommendation letters.” And I’d give ’em the process, because once they became seniors -- you know, ’cause I always feel like, you gotta be first in line, when you -- the applications are ready, they tell you, “Send your applications, admission application, beginning September through March.” Well, guess what, if you do it in March, the chances of you getting in are almost zero. But if you were part of the people that sent it in in September, you know, that’s a big [01:31:00] difference. So I told ’em, “You gotta get -- a ton of kids are 64 �gonna ask their teachers for recommendation letters, these teachers are gonna be busy, and they have a personal life, and they’re not gonna have time for 100 personal letters. Get your stuff ready, and do it immediately, and be first in line.” Sure enough, they all graduated, they all did what I told ’em and they did it. I told other siblings, you know, nephews and nieces, I tried to help them, they wouldn’t listen, so of course they didn’t go to college, or they didn’t go to graduate school, or whatever. You know? I try to help people as much as possible. I was on the admissions committee at University of Wisconsin Law School for minorities. And then, what it consisted of was, four law professors, and an African American, Spanish representative, and an American Indian representative. So we were on the committee for minority applicants. JJ: And this was in what city? RL: University of Wisconsin Law School, Madison. JJ: [01:32:00] In Madison, okay. RL: Right. As a law student, I was on the committee. And I brought in the most Latino law students ever. Based on the admission. Why? Because I was proactive. I see their qualifications, we’d vote on it, but more -- that’s one thing, you could send an admission letter, they may not come, they may go elsewhere. But I get on the phone, and I call these people and say, “Hey, you know, I’m soand-so, Ricardo Lugo, I’m at the law school and I saw your application, we would love for you to come visit, we’d love for you to come here.” Or something to sell these students to come here. I’d represent the Latino students, so that’s why I would call, and the African American guy or girl would call the African American 65 �applicants, you know. So I recruited -- and the ones that actually came, we had the highest -- the largest Hispanic law student class, first-year law students, was when -- because of my efforts. You know. ’Cause, you know, I just want everybody to [01:33:00] have that opportunity. I mean, it’s a great school, it’s, whatever it takes. I even had -- one friend of mine in particular, he’s here in Chicago, he went to University of Chicago undergrad, [Morrison the Mejicano?]. I called him, I said, “Hey, come visit, and you can even have my apartment. Come for the weekend, you can have my apartment, I can stay somewhere else, but that way you have a place to stay.” Sure enough, he came to visit, and he’s still a good friend of mine now. The other day I saw him, a couple weeks ago, he said, “You know, I might run for judge myself.” We were just talking. So I like to back up what I say. I don’t like to just talk to talk, you know, I like to back it up. You know, and hopefully if I’m around a group of young people, I tell you, “Hey, I would love to talk to your kids.” I was at a LULAC convention in Puerto Rico, and a woman that worked with the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, a Latina, happened to be from my same town, you know, Yauco, Puerto Rico. She said, “You know what, I’m the diversity [01:34:00] coordinator at the -- on the Air Force base, would you come and speak to us during Hispanic Heritage Month?” I’m like, “Sure, I love doing that stuff.” So then a few months later, she called me and told me, “Hey, yeah, remember we talked? Why don’t you come down?” And she said, “How much do you charge?” And I said, “Nothing.” You know, I enjoy doing that. You know, I don’t charge to talk. And sure enough, I went down there and it was in -- it’s in Dayton, Ohio. And, yeah, so I flew into 66 �Columbus, Ohio, rented a car, went over there and slept on base. They had their own hotel. They gave me -- put up the room and stuff. But yeah, you know, again, I just enjoy doing it. People helped me, so I don’t see any reason why we can’t help each other. The payback is the positive, you know, the seed you may plant in somebody. But it’s up to them to put some water or knowledge, whatever. JJ: So there’s [01:35:00] some elections coming up, are you -- the mayoral thing is [not?] coming up soon, right? (laughter) RL: I’m not -- yeah, I gotta -- I’m working with the party, Democratic Party, to try to get into their good graces. In other words, to have them help me, slate me, you know, in becoming a judge, or becoming an alderman, or whatever, down the road. That’s where I’m at. ’Cause they saw that I did a good job, and they were, I’m sure, surprised, at what I did. But at the same time, impressed with what I did. So, we’ll see. I mean, I was going to senior citizen homes, I was all over the map. Yeah. It was busy, it was nonstop, I -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Busy, yeah. Busy work. RL: I think I put three years of work into six months, man. (laughter) ’Cause I have my job, I have my son, I have the streets, the work, the streets, get that vote. I had to do what I had to do. [01:36:00] So. JJ: Final, final thoughts? RL: That was my final thought, but, yeah. (laughs) JJ: I appreciate it. I appreciate it, Ricardo. RL: Gracias. 67 �JJ: Gracias. END OF VIDEO FILE 68 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c77194b48c57d8669598dcde8bc1b223.mp4 6283a3db050a30ca1656f7be998c961e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Ricardo Lugo vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Ricardo Lugo, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 12/14/2012 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Lugo_Ricardo Title A name given to the resource Ricardo Lugo video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lugo, Ricardo Description An account of the resource Oral history of Ricardo Lugo, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 12/14/2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-12-14 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6024f5a6bd38e3cff6de21082b2909ec.mp4 c21882bbf86c1ff7292cde955f39a112 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b8057744bb9b912d78f33eb903ab1e0.pdf eeda8905ff89b1f47b8118a6b809ffa8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Harvey Lugten (52:36) (00:05) Background Information • • • • • • Harvey was born in Holland, Michigan in 1922 and graduated from Holland high school in 1940 His father was a cabinet maker, but lost his house and job during the depression Harvey worked as a paper delivery boy during school and began working in manufacturing once he was done with school Harvey worked in a tool room and was deferred from service 3 different times because of his job Once he was drafted he had his choice of joining the Army or the Navy He had always enjoyed going sailing and fishing so he chose the Navy (6:55) Training • Harvey was sent to Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago for training • They went through lots of marching and other physical activities for 9 weeks • He was then sent to machinist school in the same area of Chicago • Harvey was later interviewed to join in submarine school and went through psychiatric testing as well • He passed his testing and was sent to submarine school in Connecticut • The submarine service was very selective and the classes were difficult • There was hands on training and they were working in subs the whole time • He then had training in submarine diesel school • Both courses lasted 13 weeks and Harvey spent about 6 months altogether training in submarine school (14:55) Overseas • Harvey finished his classes in 1944 and took a troop train from Connecticut to California • He boarded a troop ship headed for New Caledonia and then was transferred onto a coastal steamer • They stopped in New Guinea to stay for a while on a very old and beat up base and then left for Brisbane, Australia • While in Australia Harvey also visited Sydney, Adelaide, and Perth on the western side of the country • They took trains across the country that were very old and slept on straw • They only thing in Australia to eat was mutton and after that, Harvey never ate mutton again �(18:20) First Sub War Patrol • Harvey had been staying at a sub base in Fremantle, Australia • They then left on the Hake, USS 256 submarine, which had just returned from 2 previous war patrols in the Atlantic working to fight German U-boats • The sub had also been on 5 patrols in the Pacific and was successful in sinking Japanese vessels • On Harvey’s first patrol, he witnessed the sinking of a Japanese destroyer and a ship • On another patrol Harvey and others had been attacked by 147 depth charges for 16 hours • When attacked by a depth charge, everything on the ship is shut down and it operated for “silent running” • They turned the devices back on after the attack and the sub had been flooded with about 4 inches of water (25:20) Submarine Crew • When Harvey joined the crew he had been a replacement member • Much of the rest of the crew was experienced and had already been on 5 patrols in the Pacific • The sub contained a control room, torpedo room, officer’s quarters, mess hall, engine room, and maneuvering room • Harvey worked in the engine room while they were on the surface • Every man worked for 4 hours on, 4 hours off, and so on • While they were submerged he worked on maintaining the level of depth for the sub • Most war patrols lasted two months and then they would have two weeks off while the sub was at port (35:50) Third War Patrol • For his third patrol Harvey traveled to Manila Bay, but the ship was called back to the US for an overhaul due to the beating it took from the depth charges • They traveled to CA for the sub to be worked on and Harvey had time to go back home on leave • He had been at home in Michigan on VE Day in May of 1945 • Once he was back in California they headed for Pearl Harbor and then Wake Island to load up on fuel and supplies • The sub was then on lifeguard duty near Saipan, helping to pick up downed pilots • Then they headed to Tokyo Bay for the Signing of the Peace • They left Japan and headed back to the Eastern US • The sub was sent to Connecticut to be decommissioned (41:15) Discharged �• • • • • • • • Harvey was discharged in February of 1946 and planned on going back to college after that He started a little late in the semester at Hope College in Holland, MI The GI Bill helped him pay for most of his classes Harvey got married while in college and dropped out He built his first house on his wife’s property in Holland Harvey worked at GM for a few years, but decided to go back to college and graduated in 1954 He received a degree in mathematics and then went to Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo for his masters degree Harvey eventually became the superintendent for Byron Center schools and remained in the position for 20 years � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LugtenH Title A name given to the resource Lugten, Harvey (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lugten, Harvey Description An account of the resource Harvey Lugten was born in Holland, Michigan in 1922 and graduated from Holland High School in 1940. Harvey was drafted into the service and had his choice of the Army of the Navy. He chose the latter and went through training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago. After basic training Harvey went to machinist school and then submarine school for another 6 months. After training he was shipped to Australia where he later boarded the USS 256. Harvey went on three war patrols throughout the Pacific and was later discharged in February of 1946. After his time in the service, he received his masters degree and later became the superintendent for Byron Center schools in Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives