450 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6da76a46c499cd135011f366e10e3df.m4v f1e32535ee0ff8f693a24377cca37ced https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1cfe22f3217121e03bd5a82e5f12203b.pdf 7e80a428eb0536b2022dad569534b22a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Harry Kamer Length of Interview: 46:23 Background Information (00:10)  Born in Hudsonville, Michigan, outside of Grand Rapids.  He has three brothers and three sisters  He grew up living on small farm of 60 acres that his family kept up during the depression.  His parents were poor and always struggled to keep the farm.  His father worked in a factory to help pay for farm  He did not finish high school, only went to the 8th grade. He helped out on his family’s farm and worked for other farmers harvesting celery as well  Pearl Harbor was heard about from the news on the radio. They did not have TVs then. (3:00)  He assumed he would be drafted, so he was prepared for it to happen and did not have hard feelings about it. Enlistment and Training (4:05)  In February of ‘ 43 he was drafted  First he was sent to Chicago for interviews  Sent to Fort McClellan, Alabama for basic training.  There the land was very hilly and they had to do much exercising and walking  The rules were strict and the drill sergeants were fair  He spent 6 weeks in basic training  Went to Illinois and Norfolk, Virginia for advanced training and to be shipped to Africa � He first went to Africa on a troop ship and landed in Casablanca after two weeks(7:20)  They were trained in Casablanca  They stayed in tents for the duration in Casablanca  As a group they left for Italy on a ship and a barge Italy (10:55)  They landed in Salerno, Italy  He was assigned to the 34th division of the infantry.  He was assigned to the anti-tank company. His job was to operate anti- tank gun which was a 37 millimeter.  He did not have training for gun in basic but was just given the gun and told to go use it.  Many of the people in his unit had experience and knew what to do  Not long after landing they went into combat  In combat for the first time in Cassino Italy. (13:35) o They were shelled at night and when they dispersed because they didn’t have cover and he got lost. o He didn’t get back to his unit for a while. He became sick and finally got back to the unit to be treated.  The Germans would shell when they noticed movement.  Once they found a spy that was radioing the Germans when there was troop movement. (16:06)  He went back to Naples then on to Anzio.  In Anzio He was in a squad of five that was in the outpost in the front line. They were a protection post. o They couldn’t stick their heads out because of how close they were to the Germans. o In a dugout all had to lay one way to fit. In there until wounded. They were there for weeks under cover. o  Didn’t have any way of communicating with others.. Flat land. They were wounded at night. o A motor shell landed in the hole and exploded. �o Only their feet and legs were injured. They were still able to walk. o They had a jeep nearby to go back for help to the field hospital.  He had to stay in hospital for three months then had to recover for three more months.(22:15)  When he rejoined unit they were north of Rome. The weather was cold and windy.  When he rejoined his unit, they were always on the move. Artillery had moved up to front and they were hit badly by German planes.  He was with the infantry and did not do a lot of fighting, but still had bullets flying by constantly. (26:21)  He spent a lot of time in fox holes along the frontlines.  They used a truck to travel from place to place.  He was able to see Rome and Genova.  Italians had a low class[poor?] country and weren’t very hostile  German prisoners were loaded into trucks. Usually they cooperated well.  Saw [heard about?] Gestapo line up women and children and shoot them.(29:55) After the War (33:00)  Went back home in a troop ship. Took only a week to get home rather than two.  Landed back home and went back to Chicago for discharge.  Went home as soon as he could. Was gone for over 3 years.  Went back to work in Grand Rapids for 30 years.  Lost hearing from artillery firing  Those serving deserve praise for fighting for the country  He had a reevaluation for his hearing and his wound. Receives $132 pension a month. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KamerH Title A name given to the resource Kamer, Harry (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kamer, Harry Description An account of the resource Harry Kamer was born in Hudsonville, Michigan, and during the depression. He left school after 8th grade to help on the farm, and was drafted in 1943. He was shipped to North Africa and trained there before joining the 34th Division for the campaigns at Cassino, Anzio and Northern Italy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f98bea83810af34582ac6852ad73024e.mp4 9033846ed16bb22ec70227af193636fc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dfd5225323cd4061dcb3fb243bb1e7a7.pdf 215963001522fc1601e8a912d4fb9ca6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edmund Kaminski (01:09:24) (00:01) Background Information • • • • Ed was born on a farm near Wayland, MI He couldn’t speak English when he first went to school Ed graduated high school in 1936 and began working for Ford Motors Ed was drafted and went in with the last group on January 6, 1942 (03:35) Training • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was sent to Fort Custer and then to Fort Knox, KY At Fort Knox he went through basic training, drove trucks, and early model tanks The tanks had a 5 person crew: a driver, assistant driver, tank commander, radio operator, and a gunner Ed was sent to Texas in March He was at a new camp and they slept in tents They trained with rifles and machine guns He had to learn all of the stations of the tank Ed was in Texas for a year and was organized into a unit There was a HQ, maintenance, A,B,C and D companies and the A-D companies each had 5 tanks They were the 760th Tank Battalion The unit was sent to Fort Benning, GA, by train Ed trained with the infantry on how to make and get out of tank traps He started working with Sherman tanks that had a 75mm cannon, a .30 caliber, and a .50 caliber machine gun In Texas he could go into Brownsville to dance Ed was at Fort Benning for about a year Right before Christmas of 1942 they went to Camp Pickett, VA to deploy (16:37) Deployment • They loaded their tanks and got on a troopship • About half way over they were told they were going to Casablanca in Africa • It was about 2-3 months after the invasion, which had taken place towards the end of 1942 • They were on a Liberty Ship in a convoy �• Their boat’s motor broke, so 3 cruisers waited for them and then they caught up with the convoy • Ed was assigned to be an MP when he got to Casablanca • Roosevelt and Churchill came there for a conference • They had to wait 2 months for their tanks • Ed went to the Cork Forest and still didn’t see any action • They played cards and had a track meet to pass the time • He was a corporal and then while he was still in Africa made T4 sergeant • The unit went to Oran and then was sent to Italy (25:50) Italy • Ed landed in Naples, Italy towards the beginning of the Italian invasion • In Africa they would sell the Arabs used tea leaves to get back at them for selling bad eggs • He was in an independent tank company that supported the infantry • Italy had a lot of mountains and it was sometimes hard to maneuver a tank • The infantry gave them targets • New shells and new tanks came into use • Ed was put in an open 105mm artillery tank [M7 Priest] • They encountered German tanks and destroyed at least three of them • His tank hit a double mine and it threw the track off • There were a lot of casualties especially when there was tank to tank combat • Ed sometimes used his tank as artillery by digging a hole and backing the tank into it to get more range • The Germans had strong tanks with an 88mm cannon that could go right through another tank • They moved on to Cassino and fought the Germans • Then they went around Cassino and back in when it was taken • The unit took about a month break (39:20) Northern Italy • They captured Rome and about 300 people including Ed got to see the pope • His crew remained the same throughout the war in Europe • Ed was hit between the eyes with a piece of shrapnel, but was stitched up and returned to his unit the same day • Sometimes they were told to fire at the Germans with no particular target, just to harass them �• There were a lot of German prisoners towards the end of the war; most of them were young, but some were SS and had to be watched closely • Cassino was the most dangerous place • Ed was teamed up with the 92nd infantry and they took a town, but the infantry retreated so Ed’s unit had to leave some tanks behind • They didn’t see many German planes • The Italians were grateful and would take the soldiers in to feed them • Ed would give the Italian children candy (58:24) War Ends in Europe • • • • • • • • On September 9, 1945 Ed left for home because he had enough points It took 2 weeks to get back on a troopship Ed was discharged in Virginia and took a train back to Grand Rapids, MI He got married on November 15, 1945 Ed worked at a bus company and then retired from an insurance company after working there for 24 years When he was in Casablanca he saw General Patton He fought with Gurkha British soldiers from Nepal that were good at sneaking up on people Ed visited Europe about 12 Years ago to see some of the places he had been during the war ��,. I -War in Ita IY (conlinued) .I , .i ., ~~. ~~~ Off Ihe side 01 aroad ha s r"l kd this dam aged U. S . SlllTma n IIwdillm tank . It is per mun cntly out of co m m iss ion with its right t rn ck blown off. Also its AA gun on lop is d cstro ved . Ev .',' !-Ill' Irees nrc snell-m urk ed a lid o nly slud.tereJ wal18 n -iuui n of l.he huilding iu th e buck grou ml. American field Service ambulance, in use by the Bri tish, J'npt i.. ~ I is mired deep ill Itu lian mud. On its (':1.f l) o ll flf'~(~ ne t ,""hi,:'~ ~'~~ _ :l ! .: ; ~ ::prt "1.J. 0 -c r t ! ~l., ·: d l. ~ ek t o ~ tillc il ;r'JltI '; ;...-:nU;'l ri s t ru l ers . The cha in Oil th e bumper has probably beou IJ sNI ill a vain attemp t to ext ract it fro m the mud . � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KaminskiE2 Title A name given to the resource Kaminski, Edmond W. (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaminski, Edmond Description An account of the resource Edmond Kaminski served with the 760th Tank Battalion in Italy during World War II. His account includes discussions of armored training and combat in a series of battles in Italy, including Cassino. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-27 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ba824bb322615e812de1da010c5ded9.mp4 3620ce1f700bf57fe1fd5b3d3d6df2aa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/52e1e0f56d9cbc0ce4f3e51b88c450a6.pdf ec80a03c650085215f72b7d4bb03ec6d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edmond W. Kaminski Let’s begin with your name and where and when you were born. I’m Edmond W. Kaminski, born in Wayland, Michigan, out on the farm in 1918, September the 4th, 1918. What was your early schooling like? You’re out on the farm, was there a school house you had to walk to? Well we did have a school right next door. It was just a grade school and at that time it was an English school of course. I couldn’t speak English. I just spoke Polish. I went there the first day and it only lasted about three days and then finally I went back and they taught me to speak English. And after that, then I went to the Hilliards Michigan, Saint Stanislaus Catholic School. I was there for four years. Back up for a second here. You said that the school was “next door?” That’s right. Now, you realize of course that your great-great-great grandchildren are not going to believe the story of about “I had to twenty miles to go to school…” and all that? We had to walk three or four miles. Just for the record, I want to make sure that they understand. In the wintertime, too. So after elementary school you got into high school? Yes. We moved from the farm because of my dad’s health. We moved into town and then I went to grade school in Wayland, Michigan and finished my high school there through twelfth grade at Wayland High School. Now this is the depression? That’s right. So how was it for your family? 1:35 Well, it wasn’t too bad because we were on a farm. We had food to eat and we grew pickles and all that sort of stuff so we managed very well. �Did you pick up any particular skills? Were you a farmer or were you working on the equipment? No. No, we just did the farm work that we were supposed to do. Then after Dad thought that he’d be okay, we got the second farm. It was what they call, it had a river in the back and what they call a sugar bush. Dad was sick in bed and he said, “Boys [my brothers] go out there and tap the Maple trees.” So we did. We thought we did. One Sunday my uncle came over and he says, “The sap’s not running.” So my Uncle went out there and we’d tapped all the Ash trees. So we’d made a big mistake. That was funny! Then we moved back into Wayland, Michigan. Okay. What did you do after high school? After high school I went to the Wayland Ford Garage and I started washing cars. Then I started to be a mechanic. I went to mechanical school in Detroit, Ford Motor Company and became a full-fledged mechanic. Wow! How old were you about that time? Oh, I think between, well from eighteen until I went into the Army. So where you and what was your reaction to the announcement of Pearl Harbor happening? I was working that Sunday. I heard it over the radio. I had to work once every third Sunday. I recall that very much. I heard that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. What was the reaction of the guys around you? Well there was just three of us there; two other gentlemen that were working there. Of course they were older than I was and we didn’t know what to think of it. Here it comes. Were you at all aware, at least somewhat aware of what was going on in Europe? Yes we knew things were not going real well because of Europe and Hitler and he was invading all the other countries too, you know. Well, he invaded Poland. 4:12 Poland. That’s right. Did that have an effect on your family at all? Was there talk about it? Well a little bit because my wife’s father was born in Poland. 2 �So Pearl Harbor happens. You are right in the age group. Right in that age group. What happened? Well, I knew I was…we were all drafted at that time. And I had to wait approximately a year. I was the last group of the draft to be going into the Army. Do you know why? Pardon me? Do you know why? Do I know why? Why did it take you a whole year to get in? I don’t know why my name come. It just happened that way. So, once you got the notice that “Uncle Sam wants you” where did you have to report to? I remember this very clearly. My sister’s birthday, January the sixth and I had to report to in Michigan here, at Battle Creek. I forget the name of the…… Fort Custer? Fort Custer, Fort Custer. I was there approximately a week. They interviewed us and took your blood tests and all of that and shots and then from there I was transferred to for basic training in Fort Benning, Georgia. No, no. Excuse me. Fort Knox, Kentucky. Okay. Now, you get there by train? No, they took us there by truck. Oh, wow. By truck we went there. Had you already been issued your uniforms by that time? Yes. They were issued when we were in Michigan. 3 �Okay. Now you’re in your uniforms. You’ve got some kind of duffle bag or something like that? Yes a duffle bag with everything in it. About how many guys – I don’t want exact numbers, but – how many guys were in this convoy of trucks? Are we talking about a dozen or a hundred? There were probably thirty or forty of us. Okay. Right from there. There were several people from Grand Rapids and the Michigan area that were in that group. Okay. Now you were older than some of these guys, weren’t you? Yes I was, a little bit older and some were younger. Some were possibly underage. Yeah. We found that out over time. You arrive by truck into Kentucky. Fort Knox. For basic. Fort Knox, okay. I want you to for me. Did you arrive in the daytime or the night time? Daytime. All right. You’re getting out of the trucks. You’re brand new. 6:43 Brand new. What am I seeing? What’s there? We don’t know. It’s all new. What do I do next? So you just listen. What are you actually seeing? I mean, how big is this place? It’s just huge. It is huge. You know the big barracks and all of these other trucks and Jeeps running around and all of the people in their uniforms and we didn’t how to salute or anything. No. So there’s guys marching off in the distance. There were people marching. 4 �Noise. There was noise going on. Noise, yes. That’s true. So somebody’s there to greet you. Was that your drill sergeant? Truthfully I can’t say that. But somebody actually got you to… There was someone there to tell us what to do and how to stand and how to take orders and march. Where did they take you initially? To the barracks? Yes they took us to the barracks to assign us to our beds, cots, and so on and showed you how to fix them up so everything would look neat. “Put your shoes here.” Right. “Clothes there.” Clothes there. They dropped the nickel on there to bounce off the bed? That’s true. Were these two tiered barracks or…the bunks themselves? The bunks were single bunks. Single bunks. Okay. The barracks itself was two stories high. Yes. All right. Now I know this is going back a long ways. First day: or at least your first remembrance of your first day - what was your first day like? Well the first day they woke us up I’d say probably six o’clock in the morning for breakfast and take it to the kitchen. Everyone had breakfast. Everybody goes in line and gets what you want to get and go from there. And after breakfast you go back and then they take you out and give you how you drill. Everybody’s drilling doing “hut, two, three, four…” Right, right. Left, right, left right. Yup. 5 �Correct. Were you issued weapons to do the…? Not at that time, no. Not at that time. We didn’t… So this is real basic stuff. 8:59 The first week was just basic things and then they went into seeing that I was a mechanic. They asked you that and then they had me driving a truck at first carrying…. So they actually, they found… We’re talking about the Army here, right? They actually figured out that you knew how to do something and they assigned you something you could do. Yes. What they call a six-by-six. Okay. And then they’d put people in trucks and take you to different areas and show you different things… Once you drove these guys out there did you have to then get out of the truck and start participating with them? Yes. Okay. All right. Then you’d had to clean the truck up when we come back. Well you had triple duty then! Just about. Well you’ve got to drive, you’ve go through all this stuff and you’ve got to wash it too. After the second week which we were there….which we weren’t supposed to do this but they let us off for the weekend. So there were three fellows from Benton Harbor and he had his car there. We managed on a Saturday to come home. My dad would meet me in Benton Harbor and take me home and then the next day he’d take me back and then we’d be back in time to go back Monday morning. Did you talk with your dad about the experience? 6 �Yes. Yes. He was quite interested in it. My two brothers were home too; two sisters. My mother was…you know how mothers are when their children get the service. I remember we were there eight weeks, going through all this together and I was home and we got a quick telephone call. “Get back as quick as you can because you’re going to be transferred.” We just did make it back in time to be transferred from Fort Knox to Camp Bowie in Texas. Okay. Now what was that experience like? Well, we went by train there to Camp Bowie in Texas and it was in the middle of Texas. It was near a town called Brownwood, Texas. I remember that it was a dry county. Their radio station was KBWD. Keep Brownwood Dry. We were not too far from Fort Worth or Dallas at that time. Okay. 11:25 Then we were assigned our tanks from there. But of course when we were living there, we were in six men to a tent. They were tents with floors in it and about four foot high wooden sides that had a stove in the middle to keep you warm. So this is a cold…this is wintertime? …That you’re in Texas? Yes. Okay. Yes. That would be in February. Okay. February, oh, okay. It got cold at night. Now, the fort in Texas was what…? Camp Bowie. Bowie, okay. B-o-w-i-e. Camp Bowie then was completely different than Knox because you didn’t have actual buildings, right? You’re saying that, tent city? It was all tents; tent city. All tents, tent city yes. How big was this? Was there a lot of people there? 7 �There was a lot of people there, yes. It wasn’t as big as Fort Knox but it was good sized. Before you arrived in Bowie, had you already been informed that you were going to be part of this tank group? Yes. Well, how did you find out? Well prior to going there that’s when they first started us driving. I drove a tank for the first time when I was in Fort Knox. Okay. Then they taught you to drive over there and I was taught how to get out in case something should happen or anything. You had an escape hatch on the bottom if you needed it and go from there. Did you enjoy the experience of driving a tank? It was fun. It was something different. It kept you busy. You didn’t have time to think about what was going on at home because you were busy all the time. I met a lot of friends; very good people. Now, I assume since you had all this experience with tanks, you had no problems with the tanks, right? You would just drive all over the place? No. No? What happened? It was a lot different than the trucks. It was pretty heavy. You know it weighed about thirty tons. Wow! It was big. Any incidents that you can comment upon? Yes. After we were there probably three weeks, we had a convoy of tanks and it was very dusty, very dry country. We were going quite fast and an awful lot of dust came up. I think there were four tanks that could not see where they were going. Of course I was not one of those but these four tanks rear-ended each other - did a lot of damage. Luckily, only one person was injured. 8 �Okay. That’s good. It just goes to show. That’s the kind of dangers that are out there. You can’t see and you’ve got this huge, heavy… 13:57 It’s huge. …piece of equipment. What was the tank that you were driving? It was the old type tank that had a seventy-five millimeter on the right hand side and then it had machine gun, a thirty caliber machine gun up in the turret. Okay. Now back in then in order to get inside the tank….like the new ones they’ve got, you get in from the top, but these you come in from the side. You come in from the side and the gunner and the radio operator would be in there, too. Well, how many people were in this egg? Five. What were their jobs? My was job was driving the tank. Right. Driving the tank all the time. Then what? Who else was in there? Then they had a tank commander, gunner and the radio operator and then the system tank driver. Okay. Who handled the machine gun when you needed it? The gentleman that…either the tank commander or the gunner, the one who put the shells in … Okay. Did you feel like you took to this? That this was not as difficult as perhaps, you know? Some people come to certain things naturally whether they’re a sniper or a radio operator. What did you feel like in terms of your tank, the tank itself? Well, I don’t know. I would say that seeing that we’re going to go to war, we just learned to get used to it and do it the right way. 9 �Yeah. All right. Once you got to Camp Bowie then, what was your daily routine there like? 15:41 It was in the morning, breakfast and then you’d have your go out an march and do all that everyday, same thing. Lunch and going to practically the same routine of how…mostly if you’re in a convoy, at fifty yard intervals. Okay. And try to keep it that way all the time and then you’d go and break up and go to the side, like if you’re making an attack of some kind, you know. So this was all maneuvers? All maneuvers, right. What is it strategy? “This is what happens when this happens. If this happens, go to there.” That’s true. Was there classroom instruction as well? Yes. It happened in the afternoon. Okay. They’d show you pictures, you know and all of that and how to clean the gun and how to use it and how to load it and all that. Was there any indication at that point of where you were going? Europe or the Pacific or…? No. None whatsoever. All right. But in terms of the tanks, were they telling you what the enemy tanks were like? No. Not at that time. Wow. Not at that time. Wow. So you’re only learning what you have and what you’re going to be operating but then the strategy is how to maneuver and… 10 �I do not recall how long we were there but we were there possibly two to three months, I would say that. Then we knew we were going to be shipped out to Fort Benning, Georgia. Okay. We went by train there. We were going to be attached to the Officer’s Infantry Training School there and they also had the paratroopers there. We were camped right next to the paratroopers. Do you recall which group that was? Which paratroopers? I’ve interviewed… No I do not. They were a tough bunch. I interviewed a gentleman who was with the 101st, one of the guys who dropped into Normandy and one of the comments he made was that they thought they were really tough until they went into town to prove it and they come back with a couple of broken teeth, or something. I remember after I got out of the Army one of the gentlemen was a paratrooper, he was one of the few who came back alive. Yeah. Now, once you finished up with your training there, where did you go next? What do you mean? In Georgia? Yes. Well, we were trained with the Infantry Officer’s Training School… Okay. …and they built tank traps. Ah… They’d build tank traps and then we’d run our tanks, try to go through those tank traps. And some of them they built pretty good because you couldn’t get through them. Some of them were not that good and once they’d leave, why then we’d just start up and move over again. 18:45 So now in addition to the training you had kind of amongst yourselves, you’re now working with another group? Another group. 11 �Okay. We also worked with a couple of Chilean officers there, too. Really? They were riding in the tank turrets. I remember, recalled one day we’d have an area where it was rather rough going and they told us to go over rough and we came to one area where there was a drop off of about ten feet and we went over this thing and I might have hit it a little hard because we found out later it was the officer that broke his ribs…in a tank trap. What kind of terrain was at that place? You mentioned that… It was clay and dirt and whenever it rained it was muddy. But we were all in barracks there, all wooden barracks there just like…but not like it was in Camp Bowie. Right. Did you get… …and then at the top of this they had, we were near the Chattahoochee River which is between Georgia and Alabama. They have these, what do they call them? They call them pontoons and they chose four of us to test out the pontoons on the Chattahoochee River. We started out at one hundred fifty yard intervals and then they came closer to a hundred and seventy-five and then at sixty, two of us went down. The tanks disappeared in the river. We were lucky to get out. Well, what did you do to get out? Well, we just got out. They were there watching us so they wanted to know how close the pontoons were before…what they could take, you know. Right. Right. That was quite interesting. Interesting! Panic would come to my mind. You could have drowned because the tanks went down in a hurry. So you actually went, you actually went down as you’re sinking. But you already knew what to do, right? I mean, you… Oh, we knew it. They told us how. So there was like an escape hatch? 12 �We were prepared for it. We wore, at that time we wore life protectors. We knew we could get out if we had to. All right. So then you, all floated up. You looked around. Everybody was… I was the only one in the tank. Oh. Wait a minute now… I was the only one. Four drivers; four tanks and four drivers. Oh, my gosh! You didn’t say that before. 21:13 Then from there we knew that we were going to go overseas to Europe. Okay, so you actually got informed this time. We were informed then in January we got on a train and went to Virginia. By airplane? No, no, no, no, no. Train? Train, yes. By train - tanks and everything. Then we got on a boat there and went overseas. It was rough. We hit some rough weather. Some people got sick and then we ended up in Casablanca after the invasion was already done. Okay. So let’s try and visualize this now. You’re arriving by ship to Casablanca. We were in a big convoy and all, you know, Naval boats all around us and everything. And then one time we, one of the boats, something went wrong with it and the rest of the convoy went on and then they left about three destroyers to protect them. Then they repaired it and they caught up with the rest of them. How did you get ashore? Just the regular ashore, you know. They just docked us and the invasion was made at Casablanca already. Right. And when we arrived, of course there were a lot of ships that were sunk. 13 �So you saw the aftermath? Aftermath of it, yes. Okay. Yes, yes. We saw that aftermath of that. What was your reaction to that? Wow! And it was a hot day when we arrived there at that time. Very hot. Yeah. You’re in the desert area. This is hot stuff. See all the Arabs there, you know. Right. And we landed. Was there a difference in smell of the place? Yes. You could smell the camels and all the Arabs wearing their long gowns or whatever you call it. Right. Right. It was probably cooler than what you were wearing though. Yeah. Then I remember the first night we had our pup tents. Everybody slept in a pup tent and it got cold at night, very cold at night. You always used a blanket and all of that. So what was the first night…the first night you were basically just settling in, right? Just settled down, right. And, as I think you’ve explained this is a lot of people here. A lot of people. You’re assigned now though, right? Yes, our whole outfit. The whole 760th Tank Battalion was there. Okay. Okay. Which is approximately how many people? Well, there’s A, B, C, D….let’s see, one, two, five….probably thirty five tanks. 14 �Okay. And how many personnel, just roughly? Five to a tank and then there was Headquarters Company and then there was Service Company and all of that. Okay. Okay. All right. Possibly, a hundred and fifty, a hundred and seventy-five people, something like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Were you the only ones there or were there other ones there as well? Oh there was other people there too; other outfits, too. Okay. So this is a pretty huge operation. A big, huge operation. Where did you go from there? The next morning, for example, where did you go from there? 24:31 Well we stayed there about three days. Oh, okay. …In Casablanca and just about that time I recall very distinctly seeing President Roosevelt and Churchill. They were there. We were pulling military police duty and I got to see them there at that time, which - that made my day. Well there were there for the conference? For a conference, yes. The Casablanca Conference. The Casablanca Conference, yes. So you were an MP. Does that mean that you were actually guarding the area there? Guarding the area because we were waiting for our tanks to arrive. Oh, okay. Then we after we stayed there a while, they moved us to a place called Port Lyautey. 15 �Let me just….I realize that this is a difficult question because you didn’t sound like you went up and shook hands with Churchill and smoked a cigar, but…you know, you’re a very young man, this is our wartime President, Roosevelt, Churchill, of course, is famous. What was your impression of them? A lot. I thought a lot of both of them, you know; just the idea of seeing the two big shots there which I never expected to see. I mean, both of them were so unique looking. Churchill, of course, anyways kind of looked, resembled a bulldog. Yes, yes, he did. But he had a unique…the way he talked was different! You heard him? Oh, yes. We heard him talk. I was right up close to him. Oh, my goodness! So, give us an idea of what, how you were positioned? I mean… Well, they was all sitting over there, you know and then doing MP duty, I probably was within twenty feet of them. I got a good look at him. Were they just sitting there talking, or were they actually officially discussing things? Well, they were discussing things but, yeah. It lasted probably ten minutes and then we left. Okay. So we got a good look at him. Wow! That’s amazing. A moment in history. Yeah. And you were there! That’s true. After guard duty, MP duty there, the tanks arrived. Then our tanks arrived and we went on the French Moroccan border, with our tanks to guard it which is in Port Lyautey. At Port Lyautey, it was right out of the Mediterranean Sea. Then there was a big Air Force base over there, big jobs. They’d go out on the 16 �reconnaissance out over the ocean and the Mediterranean Seas and we’d watch them come back; some of them with holes in them because they’d been shot. That must have been a sight. Yes. The Mediterranean Sea, the airplanes up above…. When they were out, we watched them take off and come back. Did you have any idea where you were going next at that time? Did they tell you where you were going? No. We assumed that we were going to be in battle in there against the Germans but it just so happened that we did not catch any of it. 27:40 Yes. But I did meet General Patton there. How did that happen? He had his pearl handles on, but he said some words that I don’t think would be appreciated. Well, give us, I mean without using the exact words, give us a flavor of what he was...in other words, he got up to speak to your group? Yeah. Yeah. He said, “A lot of tank commanders are getting killed but they’re going around with their heads sticking on a turret like on a wedding day.” Do you understand? Yep. Yep. Yep. That’s the exact words that he said. Wow. So his purpose in standing there addressing you was to kind of warn you about what was coming up? Yes. And how long did he talk? Probably twenty minutes. Wow! 17 �Twenty minutes all of that. What was your impression of him? I thought that he was tough. But I understand is that he told people that he wouldn’t ask anyone to go anywhere but there wouldn’t be a place that he would not go. In other words, he would go anywhere, you know. Anywhere he would tell you to go, he would go. Right. Yes. That’s the last I saw of him after that. Obviously I’ve seen pictures, I’ve seen film footage but I never saw him in the flesh. Was he inspiring, I mean what was your impression of him? Well everything he said, he meant. That’s for sure and you could hear him. He had a good, loud voice and you knew what he was saying and if they didn’t….I remember one time someone was wearing his hat off sides and man, he went over and straightened it out. “This is the way I want it worn.” Not to me, but other people. Right. So, spit and polish! Right. The reason why I’m asking in detail is because there’s not that many people who have had that kind of close contact with a historical figure, you know? Of course he was larger than life. Yes, he was. As you said, he had the pearl handled revolvers and the helmet, and everything was literally just perfectly creased… After we left Port Lyautey we went to what they call the Cork Forest. It was all cork trees and we bivouacked there for quite a while and it was getting towards the end of the ward and at that time they had a bunch of tanks made by Chrysler Corporation and they were not very good so they donated them to the French people and about twelve of us volunteered to go back into South Africa [?] to their headquarters and we went probably a hundred miles south of there and delivered these tanks to these people. Of course, the water tank…I don’t know if you’re familiar with a tank or not, but the water tanks that they had would hold your water for drinking? 30:56 Right. 18 �Well, we were not out a half an hour but we went to get a drink of water and no water. They’d drained it all and put wine in them! We were looking for water. That lasted about two weeks before we came back. So you’re drinking wine the whole time? Well, we managed to get some water. We had to dilute it so we wouldn’t get sick. A few of them did drink a little bit of wine. And then from there, the war ended in Africa and then they were preparing to invade Italy. No, they went to…what’s that island there? Sicily? Sicily, yeah. We were not on the invasion of Sicily. We waited for all of that and then they was waiting for, lining them up to go to Italy, just south of Naples. Now, did you – during this period of time – where did you get your news from? Pardon? Where did you get your news from? Well, every tank had a…we all had radios in the tanks. You could hear that on that, too. So you’d actually listen to the invasion of Sicily or you could hear, “South Africa’s been taken?” Oh, yeah. You could hear all that. There were radios around. People always had radios. We listened to the news; how they’re doing and they took Sicily quite easily. Now, so far you have not seen combat? No combat, no. None whatsoever. But you’re about to? We’re about to, yes. So let’s talk about the next stage in… The next stage we went to Tunisia, I think it was. I think that’s it. We all loaded onto LSTs and make invasion of Italy. Now, were you aware that you’re invading Italy? Oh yes, yes. We were aware. 19 �So they briefed you? They told you… They briefed us, yes. They briefed us on it very thoroughly. All of them were going through and the unit that we were on had motor problems. So we turned around and went back and reloaded again. By the time we got them reloaded and went back, the invasion was already completed. Oh, wow! South of Naples. We then landed in Naples and boy, that harbor was just a mess! Well, what do you mean? Well, there was a lot of ships that were sunk. Ships that there were sunk and there was, you know, ships that were sunk in order to do it, you couldn’t believe the damage that was done. The bombings ahead of time, you know. When we come in, why now and again, a German plane or two would come by and take a crack at you. We’d shoot back at them if we could. Yeah. Are these just random or are we talking about whole armadas coming over at you? No, not then. They were mostly just single planes; harassments more than likely. I see. When you arrived in Naples, when you say the harbor and everything was all littered with debris and whatnot, what about when you actually landed on the land? Was there debris and was there.. It was all buildings shot up and everything but a lot of people around. Glad to meet us. Yeah. How was the reaction of the Italians? Very good; very good. They treated us real well. They treated us real well. They loved us. So, in a sense, you felt like you were the – I mean maybe not you yourself, in your own personal thing, but liberated. They were happy? They were happy to be liberated, that’s true. Yeah. Okay. All right. That’s true, very true. They were happy to be liberated. Now, once you landed did you just get into a convoy and start traveling through or did you stay in Naples for a while? 20 �We stayed outside of Naples for about two weeks. 34:52 In tents? No with the tanks in our pup tents. Right. I know. Pup tents are … I’ve slept in them, right? I know what you’re talking about! Two to a pup tent. We did all our sleeping and everything. What are you eating? C rations. They’re not good. But now and then after the war started, so of course then they prepared us for the war which was the first one we saw was the, not the Po Valley…Rapido River. That’s where we went first. We had four battle stars in Italy. So, let’s set up the battle then. Who’s participating? What are we looking at going to this battle? All the tanks were…I remember the night before we went to battle. We were amongst the 155 millimeter Long Toms. What are those? It’s a hundred..it’s a big gun. Okay. This is artillery? This is artillery. It could probably shoot ten, twelve miles a shell. And they went off that night. We thought we were being air raided. Everyone hid under a tank. 21 �But this was our guys shooting. This was our guys shooting. We learned in a hurry. Wow! Loud! Loud; very loud. This is really, really loud. Oh, there was sixteen of these guns were there. We were in the area. We’re not just shooting a couple of rounds, right? Laying down a big barrage. Could you see the glow of the explosions or is it too far away? Oh yes, you could see the glow of the explosions and the light, of course, it would light up all night, you know. You could almost read a newspaper just from the flashes of guns. Wow! So you don’t get much sleep that night. No, no not too much. But in the morning, what happened? In the morning we got ready and they give us our instructions where we were to go. Okay. And we went the first attack was at Rapido River. Now by “we” who are we talking about? Our whole outfit, along with the 36th Infantry Division. Okay. So you’re actually going in with an infantry division? With an infantry division. Are they using you for cover? Yes. Uses us as cover. So the tanks are moving forward and the infantry was… 22 �Infantry were ahead of us. Oh, ahead of you? Oh yes. Definitely ahead of us. Oh. Definitely ahead of us. All right. Of course they didn’t have any protection, which we did. Yeah. Well, lead us through now. You’re moving forward… 37:24 We’re moving forward. We’re coming to the river and then the engineers would build pontoons over the bridge to cross, for the tanks to cross. Was there resistance? A lot of resistance. Oh, like what? Well this first lasted about six days to make our first big advancement. Okay. After we crossed the river we took a few casualties and the infantry took a lot of casualties. Well, I’m not trying to get gory details and I know this is a difficult time for you, but I’m trying to get an idea of what was being shot at you? Were there other tanks on the other end? Well, there’s tanks… Machine guns? What was coming at you? Tanks, tanks and they had their big gunners. Eighty-eight and they used that for artillery. They used it for anti-aircraft and everything and you could hear that shell coming. It was just “woo, woo, woo, woo, woo…” all the time. There was no let up. This is constant. 23 �No let up, yeah. Yeah. No let up. Are you advancing and stopping, advancing and stopping? Advancing and stopping, yes but we’re far enough apart, we stop and then you wait and try to put a screen over your tent to hide it, you know… Camouflage. Camouflage. I couldn’t think of the word. Right. That’s all right. There’s going to be a lull, of course. And if you’re sitting there, sometimes well, you’d hear one of these eighty-eights coming. They were probably getting ready to see where you’re at. They’d play one long and one short and then the third one, you’d move. You’d get used to it. That’s interesting. All right. So, they’re shooting from this direction. They’ll shoot one long and then they’ll shoot one short and then that’s when you got out of the way. Got out of the way. You knew it was for you. Right. And the tanks weren’t all close together. They’d go, you know, far apart and cover different areas. And some of them be going up a mountain and the mountains were treacherous. Well, let me ask you…I already promised you that I was going to asked stupid questions so here’s one of them. What were you shooting at? What was your tank shooting at? Well, other tanks. Okay. Okay. Then after I had this tank, it had a seventy-five and a seventy-six millimeter on it, they took me out of that and they took me into a different type tank. It was wide open and 24 �they used it just primarily as artillery. It had a hundred five millimeter on it, which is a big gun. What does “wide open” mean? No turret. Oh. You had not protection at all, just the front and the sides. They had four platoons of those and I was put in one of those platoons and then the tanks would go ahead of us and then if they needed us, we’d come in and give them that, but we laid down the barrage ahead of the infantry. 40:31 I see. We had all types of shells, armor piercing. And, oh, I remember one time when we had the other tank we were in a bad area where the Germans had what they called a bazooka. Not a bazooka, it was Screaming Mimi. Oh. And it was…it sounded like a bunch of dogs and cats fighting and it would explode and it had a concussion, a big concussion. If you got too close to it, it would make you deaf or anything. They couldn’t get this, find out where it was so they finally found out where it was going in and out of a tunnel and they took my tank and we got all sulfur shots, it just burns, you know, and we put twenty-two shells into that tunnel and it never came out again. You know this is where they would have…they’d bring it out and shoot… Bring it out. …and then it would go back in again. Yeah. Okay. And it made a horrendous noise. Oh, yeah, that’s right. They called it Screaming Mimi. Screaming Mimi. Over the six day period, just so we have an understanding here. The battle is constant. Constant. There’s a little bit of a lull maybe here and there? 25 �A little bit here, yes. The most, I’ve got a book on it…I think the most, the biggest stretch that we had of battle was a hundred and eighteen days in a row, total three hundred and something. Wow. I have that in writing. So what happened when you got to the river? You were able to cross the river? We waited and waited for the infantry to take over and then we’d try to eliminate the other, the enemy then they’d have….their guns were very powerful. They were accurate. Yeah. Because our seventy-fives would not penetrate the German tank. Right. But the seventy-sixes would. Okay. We had German tanks at eighty-eight. The way they explained it is “In an out or stay there and play tag with you.” And then one advantage we did have with the guns that we had was that armor piercing was a high explosive. It would burst. Okay. That’s what that would do. Were you up against the Tiger Tanks? Yes, we were. Okay. Several of them. At that time, now I’m not a military historian, but at that time, that was the most powerful tank. It was very powerful, yeah. Well, they put eighty-eights on everything just about. Yeah. 26 �A lot of machine gun fire. This was some of the elite Germans that you were up against? Yes. That you were up against? Yes. The Panzer Divisions. The Panzer Divisions. The Panzer Divisions. They didn’t give up easy. That was when we were fighting, Anzio, of course was going on at that time to, which we were not in Anzio, we were below Cassino. Okay. Then, as we advanced mountain by mountain, we’d gain a little here and there and then we got stalled for a long time at the Cassino because the Cassino was up there. I don’t know if you heard about it or not. I have, but let’s….before we get there, you had mentioned earlier just in passing about the difficulty going up these mountains. Let’s talk about that. 44:00 Well, the roads are not made for tanks and you drive up very carefully. There were a couple of them that lost it, rolled off, just tumbled over. Some of them did. And then you’d go through these little towns and up on the top of the mountain, why, the roads were very narrow and I drove for the captain that time, before I got this other tank and it was where I was wounded. Well, I don’t want to jump too far ahead. What was the experience of driving in those treacherous conditions? I mean, you know, I picture you… Well, they would the tank commander would tell you where to go and how to do it. You listened to him. They’d be out in front of you telling where to go. Okay. So, “go left. Go right.” “Go left, go right” and something like that, yes. But there’s got to be, I mean, this is dirt roads. This… It’s scary. This is not like it’s.. 27 �No, it’s gravel, it’s stone mostly from the mountains. Oh, okay. And they were just trails put up there. We took a chance to go up and go back down again. When you go up the mountain though, are you in the process of fighting? Not all the time. Trying to get up into certain areas. If you were trying to get to certain areas, other tanks that were backing up with their firepower so that you can get into position to save yourself. Okay. And shoot at other ones. And then the other ones, and then of course, when you out in the level, then it would be tank-on-tank. Yeah. Which was gruesome, sometimes. But we understood what it was. Just a lot of heavy…. It took a lot of nerve and what most of them did, and I don’t like to say it but take some cognac. Yeah. And that would cut your nerves down. Yeah. What about your hearing? Did you have any protection? No. They never had protection of course. 45:59 Wow! See I drove the tank and I always had the…attached to the radio to the tank commander. Okay, so you’ve got headphones on. I’ve got headphones on, yes. But still, you’ve got this… 28 �You still got that… Shooting and there’s shooting and they’re shooting at you and it’s got to be loud. That’s got to be loud. Was the next major battle Cassino for you? Yes. It was Cassino. So you were involved in the battle of Cassino? It took a long time. Of course they were way up there. They could see everything because after the war a bunch of us went back over there and we got to get up there and see what it was like. They could see anything and everything coming at you. Before they took Cassino, we were at Mount Porchia and Mount Trocchio - Porchia, which is below, between two big here, and they were all of our tanks, the whole unit. Approximately how many are you talking about? All the forty tanks, all… Forty? Forty of us, yeah. If they come over there, they could bomb us out easily. And at that time is when they started bombing Casssino. Devil, you know twins, and the big bombers and all of that stuff and dive bombers and everything and then they started going at this river going into Cassino and it wasn’t very successful. It took…I don’t know how long it took but it took a long time before we were able to get them out of there. Did you have the German aircraft circling you? Oh by the way, when we were between Mount Porchia and Mount Trocchio waiting for it, a German fighter plane come over and he was real low. He was looking down. You could see it looking at us like that and it was a gentleman from Ionia happened to be in this turret at this time. He had a fifty caliber machine gun. Ta…ta…ta…ta He hit him and put him right inside a mountain. Everybody saw that. That was the end of him. Well let’s say. In terms of what you were, your group was getting, was it mostly artillery or was it also a lot of… Towards the end of the war, then I had my open tank. Right. 29 �And they use this as artillery. We also had a C, D Company, which is light tanks. These light tanks is what they used mostly to climb up. They come up from the backside on the Cassino. I see. They did it that way. But you never drove those? No, I never drove a light tank, just a medium tank. Ours was a medium tank, too. Okay. Now, this may be an unfair question but you’re driving a tank. You’re part of this huge effort. Did you have any sense of the strategy that was going on? I know you admired Patton… Telling you what to do? Yeah. Yes. So you felt like, “Okay. I know I’m only in this one part, here. This is my job. I’ve got to do this but I feel confident that somebody is figuring out the big picture.” That’s right. Did you? Yes. Yes. Okay. Our company commanders were good at that. Okay. Before we did anything, they went into it very carefully and tried to not lose any men and tanks and stuff. Yes. But we did. I think it’s important that what you said, “They tried not to lose any men.” It wasn’t just some, “Go out there and attack that.” There was strategy; there was… 30 �It was. When it was fought, it was heavy. Everything was flying and you just go in to save yourself. Go in and do the best you can. Yeah. And then after that, after Cassino was captured, on our last big push when they started out from the West side of Italy, not Cassino, but where whatchacallit was hurt, ex-President. I’ll think of it. Then they started their last big push and we decided everybody was firing at the same time. We were putting out something like sixteen to seventeen rounds per minute, a hundred and five millimeter at night. Everybody was opening up and everything and my tank commander he played the guitar. He left the guitar out and just from the concussion, it just burst his guitar just all to pieces. We did that for about four hours before we started our big push towards Rome. When you say “push forward” are you talking about under resistance? Under resistance, trying to eliminate… So you’ve got soldiers out there, the infantry is out there. Tanks shooting, stuff coming at you. Soldiers, infantry, we had the Indian Gurkhas with us too. Oh, they were good. They were quiet, very quiet. I remember one time I was on guard duty and they’d come around and steal your helmet and they’d if it goes down and around like this, it was German but they said, “Americano.” They’d sneak up on you. You couldn’t even hear them. Yes, that’s scary. The Indian Gurkhas were wonderful. They’d carry their women right with them, too. 51:57 Wow! They had their special knives and all that stuff? That’s right, that’s right – to slit their throat, I assume. Wow! That’s amazing! The push towards Rome, did you have any sense, I know you told me you had radio contact and you kind of know what’s going on in the war, did you have any sense of whether we were winning or losing? Yes. We thought we were winning because we were gaining ground all the time. We were just hoping to find out whether they would run out of troops and no resistance whatsoever and so that it would be a little easier. So far… 31 �But even after we did have it tough, at night we’d still fire periodically, like as if we were going to go just to keep them awake. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. The push towards Rome though, was that….did you feel any sense of it’s getting harder, they’re giving us more? The first part, the first three or four days it was rough. It was rough. We lost a lot of people and the infantry lost a lot too. We didn’t have replacements for them right away. We lost a few tanks. Any of your buddies? Two of them. Yes, two very good buddies. Then we were also with the Indian Gurkhas and we were with the 82nd Infantry – 88th or 82nd. It was a colored outfit. We went across this one river and it was after Rome so I forget what pass it was but we got across this river and they deserted us. We lost fourteen tanks that day. We had to go back and get them back again. They just completely deserted us. All that was left was us but we managed to get away and then we captured them back again. Wow. The fighting was that fierce. Yes. They just got scared, wouldn’t fight and wouldn’t put up a fight like the other people did. The infantry troops that were in front were getting the brunt of this? They were getting the brunt of it, yes. They would dig their foxholes and we were also with the Japanese Americans. Oh, really? Yes. We were with the Japanese Americans too and they were good. They could do a very, very good…they were like the Gurkhas. Wow! They were very good. It was 40…I don’t know what regiment it was, 42nd regiment or something like that. See, the 36th Infantry was out of Texas and the 88th was out of Oklahoma and the 91st Division was with us those too, several divisions, and we were with the British, too. Oh, wow! The Japanese Americans that you saw, they were also in front of you? Yes, they were. 32 �So that’s why you were able to see how fierce they were? How fierce they were fighting, yes. They had high casualties. They had very high casualties. But I don’t know whether I can say it to you now or not, but after the war, I mentioned this before - we went up to the monastery in the hotel and at that time these Japanese Americans were getting a citation from Italy and I have a picture of one of the gentlemen who was with me that got the citation. We were happy to be at the hotel when they were getting that, after the war. That was 1990. You know what’s amazing is that as you are a young man and you’re in all this you had no idea that you are witnessing historic events, you know…a black regiment; a Japanese American regiment. These are completely new to American military and the difficulties they went through to fight. Oh, I forgot to tell you again. When we were in Cassino, this was rough, we were in near Cassino and got into the town and their 88 was close. Of course we were buttoned up, we didn’t open up. Right. And the 88 shot about fifty feet to the left of me. It went underneath my tank, underneath my seat, out the side and got the tank next to it. Two tanks with one shot. The only way I got out of it, all of us got out of it, we dropped the trap door and got out that way and the gentleman that was behind us, he was from Michigan here, Ada, Michigan. He shot that 88 and put it out of commission. That was close. It exploded… No, it went under. It didn’t explode. It was so close, it went right on through and got the next tank to it. That was something. Boy, it was noisy. It really put the tank out of commission. What happens your tank is completely destroyed? You get out and wait for another one. Well right here. [He points to the picture on his sweatshirt] I’ve got a tank. It says “War in Italy.” This tank hit a landmine and I was in it and we got out of it. This picture was in Life Magazine. The tank that you were in. 33 �Yes. I didn’t get hurt. Nobody got hurt. My grandson got the picture – I’ve got the picture here and put it on here for me. I’m quite proud of him. Let me ask you this, how many tanks did you go through? Three, lost three tanks. Wow and survived every one of them! Yep. Without a scratch? Well, I got this one scratch here. I’ve got this scratch here between the eye, towards the end of the war. What happened? We were driving and a shell lifted the end of us and the gun was out here, it was still this open job, it was open. It hit the tube of the gun and glanced off and hit me. I had goggles on and I split my goggles right in half. The scar is right here. You can see that. I can see that, yeah. So I got out a little early. I got five points for that after the war. But it was something that I never expected to see or hear or anything like that. There were times when you’d take a break and enjoy yourself and play volleyball or something and we did get to go back to Rome on a break. We were to get the break - we stopped at a place called Lake Bracciano. There’s a big lake, a huge lake and there’s a lot of whitefish in there and people didn’t know how to catch the fish so a bunch of the guys took hand grenades. They dropped the hand grenades in the water and then the fish would come up. Boom! A bunch of whitefish laying there, eh? There’s lunch or dinner! Yeah. Then we got to go up to Rome. I did… Were you part of the actual liberation of Rome? Yes. We pulled into Rome and oh, my gosh! Everybody just loves you. Everybody just sort of…we pulled into Rome and took over and everybody just...you get out of tanks and “Praise you God” and everything and the women are kissing you and all that stuff and it was really an experience. Let’s try it out. You yourself, okay? As you are coming into Rome, it’s been taken, right? You’re coming into Rome as part of a convoy? 34 �Part of a convoy – trucks and Jeeps and trip tanks and everything. So you start to come in and what do you see? People flocking out onto the street. All right. Okay. Throwing flowers at you. Throwing bouquets, cheering and everything; jumping up on the tank and everything. It was just great. People were, they were liberated, you know! They’d been under war for that long. The only think I can say is they did not touch the Basilica or anything like that. The Germans stayed away from that. 1:00:42 Wow! I did get to see the Pope. A bunch of us did see the Pope. How did that happen? That was, well we were out at bivouac at Lake Bracciano. They brought us back and took us in there and there were probably three hundred of us. He talked to us. It was really something. You’ve met some amazing people! It was interesting. Wow. Did the Pope speak English? Yes. A little bit – not like this last one, the Polish one. This one. So basically he was blessing you, thanking you. Blessing us and thanking us for all our help. That had to feel good! There was no damage whatsoever within the Vatican. The Germans stayed away from it. Rome is beautiful. I’ve been there – not under the circumstances you’re talking about. Well, I was there in 1990 too. Oh, okay. Yeah. By then it was black! Soot and all that kind of thing. 35 �Cassino, Cassino, it was nothing left, just rubble. Now it’s all built up. So once you went through the liberation of Rome, did you stay in Rome or did you guys just go all the way through the city and you went somewhere’s else? No we went on to Rome probably twenty miles and then we rested for about two weeks and then went on to the final push to the Po Valley which there wasn’t much resistance from there. By that time, were you getting a lot of prisoners of war? A lot of prisoners of war coming, periodic fire but not too much; not much at all. Were you a witness to, because I’ve talk to a lot of the infantry guys and whatnot where you are moving along and all the sudden just, people started coming out with their hands up. People started coming out with their hands up, yes. They were mostly young people. That’s what I wanted to ask you. They were young people. Because you had talked about the Panzer divisions and the…but what were you seeing now in the way of soldiers? Of our soldiers now? No, the surrendering soldiers. What do they look like? Well, they were young and they seemed happy. They seemed happy. They were away from it, you know. They know they are going to be okay and as far as I could see, we treated the Germans real well. They were captured. We captured quite a few of them. Would they basically just come out of the woodwork, so to speak with their hands up? No guns or just guns thrown down? They’d come out, drop their guns and come back at you and their hands up and oh, probably three, four hundred at a time sometimes at the end of the war. Now, it wasn’t your job to take care of them? No. So basically somebody… 36 �We just led them back. I don’t know who took care of them. I have no idea. The reason that I know that they were young, after the war – remember I told you we were there? Yeah. We found a German cemetery and it was well taken care of. There was a Panzer Division and there were graves that were there, a lot of Polish kids, fifteen, sixteen years old and there were ages on them Like my name, Kaminski… Right. My wife’s name, Malinowski…they were in the German cemetery, all young Polish people. They were conscripted? Yeah. They were killed. Did you ever run into any SS as they were surrendering? Yes, yes, yes. They would wait until the end. They would wait until the end. They had their self-propelled guns and their tanks too and some of them in tanks. They’d finally come through and it would hurt them to surrender because they were really true SS troops. They were tough. You could tell the difference? Yes, you could. I asked other vets and they said they could tell. You could tell because the look on their face was, “Why am I giving up?” Wow. Scary. But these young kids, you just felt sorry for them. Did you see old people too? Just the French people. Oh, okay because I run into people who have talked about not only the younger ones, but old guys. 37 �When we were up in the front lines, we ask the people in German, “Wo die Deutsch sind?” “Where did the Germans go? “Ils sont tout allé “They went away.” Then they’d tell us that they’d killed all their chickens and took away. Once in a while when we got hungry, we’d pick up a couple of these chickens. Get a gun…have a fresh chicken. Yeah. And it was good. So, what was the last part of your military experience there? You got injured, but what happened after that? After that, we were injured, we went to the Po Valley and there was very little fighting there. It was all green where they grow a lot of stuff and men, we assembled and we backed into - I forget the name of the town. I’ve got it in pictures, the name of the town. We got out all of our equipment, laid it all out, tank on tank and people in front of it and they’d come around and the General would inspect it and we were all done with it there and then they sent us home. So where were you on V-E Day, Victory in Europe? Near Genoa. How did you hear about it? On the radio. Okay. On the radio. We were all happy. I was going to say, what was the reaction of the guys? Very, very pleased to have nothing coming at you. I’ve heard about guys shooting guns in the air and breaking open bottles of wine. Oh, we did have wine I forgot to tell ya. When we were in Casablanca, we had a lot of wine there. A lot of the guys drank it and they were sick. I got a little sick once from wine. Oh, my gosh! Another time when we were below Rome, the Germans had their wine cellars in dirt things you know and then they have little areas to go like that. And we tried to find them and the Italians would really, really guard them. So we finally found this one. I had a 45 38 �on me and I plugged two holes into it and so we got our wine. Everybody was looking for that. Immediately after you got injured, what was the process of taking care of you. Did you have a medic take you somewhere? To a field hospital? They had a medic take it out, yeah and there was a piece in there. Still? No, they took it out. I was probably out of service about three days and then I went back until the end of the war. But it hurt and it bled quite a bit. Well, you’re lucky it didn’t hit your eye. I’m lucky. It could have hit an eye. You’re lucky it could have gone through your brain… Yeah, they shell did, probably thirty yards to the left, glanced off the tube and then into my… So. I couldn’t see for a while. Oh, wow! It knocked out your sight. You literally…that had to be scary. It was. I hoped, I thought I might have lost an eye, but I did not. When you were treated for that, were you in a field hospital? Yes. What was around you? Did you see casualties around? A lot of casualties, yes. But you were blind at that moment. Yes. So all you could do is hear things. Is hear things. But at that time, when we were – no before that when we went to this one town, we took an awful bunch of casualties. I think it was on Saint Lucia up on the 39 �mountaintop over there. Right there is where we got hit the hardest. We lost an awful lot of men. It was before Rome. No, after Rome, excuse me. After Rome. Let me ask you this, V-E Day, was there any chance of you being a part of the invasion of Japan? No. Not…there was to other outfits because it was all by numbers. You had so many points. I had enough points to go home right from Italy. Okay. So I went home. I got on a boat and went home from there. Where were you when V-J Day was announced? Around Genoa. Also? Okay. It was all there and then went by truck, got on a…I think, I don’t know…forget what place we went out of right now to go back home. V-E Day, V-J Day, it’s all over with. You know you’re going home. What were you thinking? Happy. Happy to get home, see my family. Get on with your life? Yes. That’s the one thing I hear so much is that, you know, “It’s over with. We did our part. Now it’s time to get on with my life.” After that, I got back working as a mechanic at a bus company and I went into the insurance business after that. Yes. Well let’s talk about the homecoming. Where did you dock when you came back? New York. Now, the Statue of Liberty, right? Yes, we saw that. 40 �What was your reaction? Great to see! Great to see, yes, yes. Because it’s home. You’re back. It was home, yes. I remember going home by train. Did they know you were coming? Yes, they knew I was coming. Okay. So you arrive by train? By train back here to Grand Rapids. And who’s waiting for you? My girlfriend! My wife now. Lucille. I saw her before I saw my parents! 1:10:54 Oh wow! That’s one sweet lady, that she’d come out there before your parents even showed up. Yep. Come on! What was that like? Seeing her… Wonderful! Just great. You get off the train. You’re in uniform? Yes. I got off the train in my uniform, yes. It’s been a great fifty-eight years with her. Did she give you a hug? Oh, yes. That must have felt good! It was great! So from there, where did the two of you go? We got married the following November. No, I mean did you go to your parents’ then? 41 �We went to her house first, you know. She was at the train station to meet me and we went to her house. We got into her sister’s car and she took me home to Whalen. Come on! This is for your great-grandchildren, okay? What was that moment like? It was wonderful, yeah. I can’t explain it. It was just great! Mom came up and gave me a big hug and Dad did too. Oh, my gosh. 42 �Brothers and sisters. You’re back home. Back home and it was great. I’ll never forget it. Yeah. I’ll never forget it. I have one more question for you. I’m not referring to the battle experience per se, but your overall military experience and I mean from the very beginning when you got drafted, you went through boot camp, you went through all this experience and finally, you got home. How did your military experience shape the person that you are today? Well, it changed me quite a bit! I grew up. I grew up quite a bit. I’ll never forget after the war was over, we had some friends from our outfit from Washington all over, went to a dance hall here. Somebody dropped a firecracker. You could tell everyone who was in the service. They hit the floor. It was that way. You were nervous. 1:13:11 Yeah. Did you talk about the war at all afterwards? Not too much, not too much. Sometime, people now days – they don’t care to hear about it. I don’t know why, but they don’t talk about it much now. Yeah, but it’s… Sometimes it’s discouraging to me that they don’t do that. It does to me. Well, I hope you realize that what we’re doing here is just the opposite. We’re trying to get people to talk about it. It’s important, at least in my opinion that we get these stories down now. The experiences of what you went through. I know I have two grandsons I got the book on it and they are quite interested in it. They should be. You know, I know that you don’t think this way, because I know so many other vets I talk to, but I think it’s important for you to realize…I was talking to you about the school programs I do. I go in and train kids on how to do oral histories and get them involved in the Library of Congress Veterans’ History Project. You may not think you yourself are responsible but it’s you and your generation – my father’s generation - the ones that stood up to Hitler and to the Japanese and we have the freedoms we have today because of what you went through. Because of what we did, right. I feel that way. 43 �Good. I’m very glad. I feel that way. And you have the mark to prove it! Yes. Right there and thank goodness you came back in one piece. One piece, thank goodness is right. Thank you very much Frank, it’s been a pleasure. It’s been a pleasure too, sir. 44 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KaminskiE1 Title A name given to the resource Kaminski, Edmond W. (Interview transcript and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaminski, Edmond W. Description An account of the resource Edmond Kaminski served with the 760th Tank Battalion in Italy during World War II. His account includes discussions of armored training and combat in a series of battles in Italy, including Cassino. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-04 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8882634b84f2d2a83d90183d8405ff24.jpg 213b08ac12ffcd4e7791c4418c9a6708 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/386462e698056670f54b18042b8a0ad0.jpg c528719e123d4f714abe5c23a4a5a163 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_PHOT_1922-Kampen-CBT-PNT-recto-img764 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1922 Title A name given to the resource Kampen Officers' Candidate School, 1922 Description An account of the resource Group photograph of Officers' Candidate School in Kampen, 1922. Cornelis Barend Termaat (b. 1886) in uniform standing next to a line of men seated up a staircase on the side of a brick building, also in uniform. Pieter Termaat (b. 1914) is seated at the bottom of the steps. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Netherlands Kampen (Netherlands) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/adea33192e217ac7a33534c1762113e0.mp4 ad8ce1d10843f698089a6b23c48a1bab https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5c71b9d4af925071aed1a350ca0b661d.pdf edf6085c23f90cff013087a0e1c92e41 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project John Kandra (1:15:01) Background Information (00:12)            Born in February, 1925 in Beaverdale, Pennsylvania (a small coal mining town)(00:12) His father worked as an electrician in the mines. (00:30) His father was able to keep his job off and on during the 1930s. (00:50) There were 8 children in his family. Only 6 lived in the house. (1:18) He attended public school in Beaverdale (1:46) He registered for the draft in February and was drafted in March of 1943 while still in high school. (2:00) He heard about Pearl Harbor while working in the church on Sunday for the service. (2:36) He knew a little about the conflict in Europe. He did think the U.S. would be involved. (3:11) His two older brothers were drafted as well. (3:44) He was happy to be drafted and serve his country. (4:20) He was sent to Fort Meade, Maryland for basic training. . (4:37) Basic training (4:40)                 He was bused to Fort Meade, Maryland (outside of Baltimore) (4:40) The base had permanent barracks that the men stayed in. (5:00) He stayed at Fort Meade for approx. 3 weeks. Here he was processed and his physical condition inspected. Due to an aptitude test, he was found to be good at electronics. (5:20) He was then sent by train to Camp Van Dorn Mississippi. (5:50) The train occasionally stopped. All together the trip took several days. (6:19) Camp Van Dorn is near the Louisiana border. (6:55) This camp was used for an engineer battalion. Here the men were trained on road construction, bridge construction, and mine detection. (7:23) At the time only one battalion was stationed at Camp Van Dorn, but it was divided into A, B, and C companies. (7:50) He served in the 164th Combat Engineer Battalion, Company B. (8:16) During training, he had calisthenics for an hour at 6AM. After the men had breakfast. Then the men were trained in particular schools. (8:22) The men started their training with basic aspects such as riffle work and an extreme emphases on discipline. (8:50) Adjusting to military life was not too difficult for him. (9:20) He was given KP duty. This was often a punishment for disobeying orders. (10:11) Basic training lasted 13 weeks. (10:30) After basic, the men were given specialized engineer training. (10:35) He ended up being a radioman so such skills were not as applicable to what he actually did in combat. (11:20) �       After basic training, the men were sent on a field trip in upstate Mississippi to practice maneuvers. (12:07) He was based at Camp Van Dorn for almost a year from 1943-1944. (12:55) While off duty, there was a theater at the base the men could visit. (13:23) He did go off bases. The men would often go to Baton Rouge or New Orleans, Louisiana. The soldiers were often treated well in towns. (13:50) Due to the base’s proximity, it was difficult to observe the segregation of the south. (14:40) The men were sent home on one occasion. (15:00) The soldiers he came form were from all over the U.S. (15:47) Voyage to England (16:00)                        He was shipped overseas in February 1944. He sent out of Camp Shanks, New Jersey, on a converted cruise ship to England. (16:19) The ship traveled in a convoy. (17:45) He landed in Wales England. From here they traveled in to Chipping Norton. Here they stayed in tents. (18:45) Here he was still caring out some engineering training. (19:40) He was selected to be educated in Morse code. He studied at Oxford to learn this. (20:20) He had to be able to write and receive 30 words a minute. (20:58) Most people he trained with could pass. (21:29) The codes and the frequency that the military used frequently changed. (20:19) A radioman was required to stay at the radio he operated for 4 hours at a time. (23:10) He was given 3 weeks to learn the code and several more to learn how to operate the radio. (23:30) While studding at Oxford he stayed in tents on campus. (23:51) He spent about 8 hours a day learning code so he did not see every much of the campus. (24:16) When returning to his unit, he was given a radio to put in his platoon’s truck. (24:30) The console was also mounted on the command car. This console could only receive not transmit. (24:50) If the platoons needed to transmit back, then a runner was sent. (24:40) On D day (June 6th 1944) he was still stationed in England. He believed he would be sent in D+1 but instead was sent in on June 27th 1944 due to the number of troops that were ahead of him in the order to be sent to France. (26:15) The men were sent across the English Channel in LSTs. (27:00) He shipped to France from Southampton. (27:52) When he and the vehicles were unloaded from the LSTs he was in neck high water. (28:30) He arrived on Utah beach on June 27th 1944. (29:15) (29:20) The country side and the beach were war damaged. Towns varied based on whether or not they were hit with bombs. (30:32) He recalls coming across many of the gliders the U.S. deployed. (31:00) Service in Europe (32:00)  His first assignment was near St. Lo ,France to check roads for mines and repair road damage. (32:07) �                    His was assigned to serve with Patton. While here, a sergeant he served under was demoted for not saluting Patton as he rode by on a jeep. (32:39) He was in the St. Lo area for approx. 2-3 weeks. While we was there, he did witness some of the carpet bombing of the town. (33:50) While in a convoy passing through a small town, he came under attacked by a German aircraft. But the plane was shot down by a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on the back of a jeep. (35:04) He recalls artillery hitting approx. 30-50 yards away. He was not hit. (36:30) He followed Patton into Paris where he was assigned to construct a bridge across the Seine River (37:20) The bridge was approx 600 ft. but only took 7 hours to complete in spite being shelled during construction. Both company A an C worked on construction. (39:38) While in Paris he was given some time to see sights within the city. (40:14) After completing the bridge in Paris, he followed Patton east. (40:30) Company B built 19 bridges. Altogether the company built 41 bridges. The bridges constructed varied by design based on the scenario. (41:00) When in a town, often soldiers would sleep in the hay in a barn. Often civilians would offer the soldiers food. (41:48) The French would also try to trade things with the soldiers. (43:00) Finding French wine was also prized. (43:33) He and the other men were given The Stars and Stripes, a newspaper offered to the soldiers to give them information on the war effort. (44:47) Though at this time (fall of 1944) there is heavy fighting going on in France, his company has only had to build bridges not engage in combat. (45:10) When Patton was called into the Battle of the Bulge, his company followed but stopped at the edge of the battle field. Here the men rebuilt bridges and checked mines on forest roads. (46:00) While on a mine clearing job, his platoon encountered some German soldiers and were forced to fall back. (47:26) In early 1945 his unit was switched to the 7th army. (47:52) In January [March?] 1945 he built a bridge on the Rhine River. (48:00) He noticed less fighting after entering Germany. He recalls seeing a lot of young German soldiers who were captured. (50:16) He recalled seeing German civilians. He recalls they were fairly kind to the U.S. soldiers. (50:50) Germany Surrenders (51:00)        He recalls being near Austria at the time of the German surrender in May 1945. (51:30) After the German surrender he went to Salzburg Austria. Here the solders stayed in apartment buildings the military commandeered. (52:28) At this time there was not very much for the soldiers too be doing. He was given the task of cutting men’s hair. (53:10) He recalls the Austrians being very friendly to the American soldiers. (53:45) Salzburg was not subjected to bomb damage. However Hitler’s home he visited in the Alps was. (54:45) He went to Linz, Austria to do bridge and road repair. (55:00) There was talk of the men being sent to the Pacific however his company had slim odds of being picked to go because it would be so costly to transport the men and their equipment. (56:00) � He rode in boxcars from Austria to the English Channel. This train trip took several days in December of 1945. (56:48) Voyage home and life after service (57:00)       He was sent by boat and landed in New York Harbor. (57:32) He was discharged in December of 1945 at Fort Meade. (57:52) Upon returning he attended the American Television Institute in Chicago to get a degree in television engineering. Here is where he met his wife. (58:07) He worked for WLAV a T.V./radio station in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (58:34) He then worked for Grand Rapids Television where he repaired televisions. (59:40) Then he and 2 others set up Advanced T.V. witch set up home security systems and did large cable wiring projects. (1:00:02) Thoughts on service (1:01:04)    He believes that his time in the service taught him a lot. And that without it he and other soldiers would not be as successful as they are today. (1:01:06) When attending college he went to school all year for 36 months (3 years). (1:01:30) For a while he was in the army reserve. (approx. 2 years.) He was not involved in any other veteran’s organizations. (1:02:14 Visiting the World War II Memorial (1:02:45)    When he landed in Baltimore there were people there to greet the veterans. (1:02:57) He rode on a bus to see all the memorials as well as statues commemorating peoples and the events. (1:03:10) While on the plane back home, the men had a mail call that was compiled of letters form family. (1:04:36) Life During War (1:05:00)           He saw Bob Hope and Bring Crosby at USO shows during the year. (1:05:22) He also saw Dinah Shore at a USO show. (1:06:00) He was under artillery fire for most of the time out of the year. (1:06:30) His platoon did take casualties, however not as many as on the front line. (1:07:10) He does not recall his company having been struck by artillery. (1:07:50) When he arrived in Germany, the men often were under fire from German aircraft. However later on in the war, there were less German aircraft attacks. (1:08:15) It was common for sights of bridge buildings to come under fire. (1:08:43) He recalls a captain in his company had accidentally shot himself in the leg while attending to pull out a German pistol he had. (1:09:40) He recalls men taking souvenirs such as paintings; however he refused to partake in this as it was technically against the rules. The only thing he took was a small accordion that was given to him. (1:11:11) One of the Captains in his company received disciplinary measures as result of stealing some paintings from a house or looting. (1:12:02) �  He recalls that many Austrians were glad to see the Americans and glad that the war was over. The only time civilians were angry at U.S. solders was when they were looting or destroying property. (1:12:45) While in Nancy France, the men found a German Ambulance that he used as a command and put radio equipment in. it was used until it broke down. (1:25:38) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KandraJ1341V Title A name given to the resource Kandra, John (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kandra, John Description An account of the resource John Kandra, born in Beaverdale Pennsylvania in February of 1925, served as a radio operator in the 164th Combat Engineer Battalion from 1943 to 1945 in France and central Europe during the Second World War. He did most of his training at Camp Van Dorn however received specialized training in Morse code at Oxford University while stationed in England. During his service, Kandra spent most of his time relating messages between commanders, checking roads for mines, repairing roads, and repairing bridges. Thought he was never on the front lines his company did come under artillery and aircraft fire. Later in his life he used his training to work in television in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-01-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/009bac69ee3c28941c3789758b3d4117.jpg ce2154d9724bcb37fc4ac3f65cc21b3e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K183-0024 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-08-05/1970-08-07 Title A name given to the resource Kane County Republicans, Kane County Fair, Illinois Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a painted sign advertising "Kane County Republicans" in front of the group's tent at the Kane County Fair in Kane County, Illinois. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Kane County (Ill.) Fairs--Illinois Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfd1bbc46c7ae8634ec2279f9aefbbb3.mp4 95ae53ba598f219cfa2cb0f1aee6a371 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22c6bd8a9e07a74fa519becd67ade019.pdf 20279d331adf7ed449d36c8918ea2068 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Iraq War John Kangas Interview Total Time: 1:13:07 Background  (00:17) Raised in Cedar Springs, MI o Born in 1981  (00:30) His mom stays at home, and dad works at GM  (00:38) Graduated in 2000 o Became a father shortly after graduating o Worked, and got laid off o Was unemployed when 9/11 happened o Lived with his parents at the time, saw it happen on the news  (1:41) Says that enlisting didn’t have much to do with 9/11, the biggest reason was that he was unemployed o Remembers selling coupon books door to door  (2:02) Initially went to the Air Force, but they turned him down because he had a child  (2:18) Went over to the Army  (2:30) Went to recruiting office, took practice test, then to Lansing o Very high pressure situation  (3:15) According to his test, there were jobs that he qualified for, but half of them were filled o Had to pick from 4 choices o He picked radar  (3:40) Mentions that there is a lot of lying that went on in the recruitment process  (4:20) Radar was considered a combat arms job o The guy who told him about the job was a career NCO � (4:44) Mr. Kangas went on a delayed entry program, lasted two weeks Training  (5:12) Went to Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, for training  (5:20) As soon as they got there, 2 AM, went to bed o Remembers reading and writing on the bunk  (5:53) Said the facilities dated to before Vietnam, except for the training sites  (6:20) During the first weeks, his experience depended on knowledge of the military and regulations, said most of them didn’t know much o Didn’t understand why they cleaned the barracks at 3 AM in the dark until he got out and understood the regulations o It was because the drill sergeants didn’t want to get caught  (7:23) A lot of emphasis on physical training o Ran 6-8 miles a day, but they were told they only ran 3 miles o Said he wasn’t in great shape when he got there o Basic training got him into very good shape  (8:15) Basic training lasted 6 weeks  (8:23) People couldn’t “wash out”, but sometimes people were kicked out o Those who were trying to figure out how to get out failed, because there was no way out  (9:22) In his unit, the drill sergeants kept them at the same pace the entire time, even at graduation and afterwards o They found out their drill sergeants weren’t getting down time because of 9/11  (10:10) Drill sergeants kicked everyone out after graduation; Mr. Kangas said this was illegal  (10:30) Went to AIT, got actual job title here o Stayed at Sill  (11:07) About 4 others he trained with in basic who went over to AIT with him  (11:15) This was where he learned about his job and physical training every morning � (11:27) At this level, drill sergeants treated them better  (12:00) In AIT, he learned mobile radar, all on trucks o About 9 weeks o A big part of the training was learning how to set up  (13:08) Talks about fire guard duty o When everyone else is sleeping, someone had to stay up, and they rotated Overseas  (13:46) Got shipped to Germany after training  (14:00) Sent over in October, 2002 to Bamberg  (14:20) “Joined the fold” on arrival, assigned to a unit  (14:28) Assigned to Unit 1/33, 1st Battalion, 33rd Field Artillery  (14:53) When he first showed up, half of his unit was gone because of rotations  (15:30) Said they were training for Kosovo  (15:57) Used radar to specifically identify mortar positions, looking for aircraft, etc.  (16:11) Spent a year in Germany  (16:22) Woke up, worked out, did radar run times o If radar wasn’t run, it would break down o If there wasn’t anything happening, someone would create something for them to do o Talks about putting up tents  (17:02) Got weekends and government holidays off o German holidays would count depending on the sergeant’s opinion o Drank a lot during his time off o Tried to fight for his wife and child to come over to Germany, but it was hard to do  (18:05) Said there was an MWR, had big screen TV, maybe some video games  (18:32) When he first got to Germany, all of the equipment they used was from Vietnam o They had tape decks, other equipment from the 80’s �o He heard that Germany was the last to get newer technology  (20:06) Found out he was going to Iraq 8 months into his first assignment  (20:37) When the Iraq conflict first started, they couldn’t go anywhere at first because the Germans were angry and protesting o Couldn’t go out to drink o Mostly locked down o Watched CNN just as much as civilians  (21:54) Mentions that in Iraq, they stayed in one spot, protecting the bases  (22:27) Mr. Kangas feels that they should have spent more time showing them how to use the radar because that was the main focus o There was some training though  (23:05) Went to Iraq in 2004 during winter o About February  (23:40) First they went to Kuwait, did some training and learned more about what they’d be doing in Iraq  (24:04) They took all of their equipment and convoyed to their destination o 4 day drive through Iraq  (24:17) In the first month, they were at Balad, Anaconda Air Force Base  (24:44) Mr. Kangas said the drive there was “brutal,” no sleep o He was driving, and they picked up hitch hikers  (25:20) Says that if their vehicle looked impervious, the enemies would understand it to be impervious  (26:20) Remembers that IED strikes would back things up and make driving across the country even longer o Convoys delayed by a half an hour, etc o Emphasis put on keeping track of convoys  (27:11) At Balad, there weren’t enough radar units o Needed 6, they only had 4  (28:06) Went to a small base in Iraq that was about 30 miles north of the previous one �o Got mortared every day o It was in the middle of a town, so it was hard to point the radar specifically  (29:05) There were other parts of the 1st infantry division there  (29:22) At that point, they were just defending themselves o Pointed radar and sent infantry over to handle it  (29:50) Stayed there for about 2 months and moved to another base which was between Balad and Fallujah o They lived in an old hanger o Cleaned it up o Easier place to operate than before o Two different types of radars, Mr. Kangas was on the smaller one o The big radar was large enough to jam the radars at Anaconda o At the same time, the enemy was making the same adjustments o “Cat and mouse”  (32:06) Talked about civilian populations o Stayed “hunkered down”  (33:17) Stayed in the 3rd place most of his deployment  (33:54) His total time in Iraq was a year  (34:09) Wasn’t really sure how long he’d be staying o When they got there, their sister unit was replaced by the 1st Cavalry o They went home, got off the plane and back on o They also thought they may not be there a whole year  (35:10) All of the 1st infantry division went at the same time o His battalion was split up because of their job o His group was called a battery, set up just like a field artillery unit  (36:12) 6 guys in his radar unit  (36:36) There were ups and downs in their morale o Going into the war, they were told it would end soon, told to prepare for only being in 6 months �o After they got out, 15 month deployments started happening  (37:16) Says his section was lucky to have no casualties, but a lot of close calls  (37:44) He did see damaging effects of battle; mentions that wounded people from the insurgency came in and out o Talked about scandals, heard screams o Saw casualties, but nobody in his unit got hurt  (38:31) Reaction to getting mortared became 2nd nature because it happened so often o One officer was skittish  (39:17) Said there was nothing else to do but accept the reality of being attacked  (39:38) Used to be random targets  (41:53) After he finished a year, 3 day process to Germany o At the time, they took a military flight right back to Germany as opposed to staying in Kuwait or a couple of weeks  (43:00) Mr. Kangas had 6-8 months left on his enlistment o Spent the rest of his time in Germany  (43:20) He said the Germans weren’t very happy to see them o But their economy depended on them  (44:31) Learned very little German because most of the time he was training o Everyone on the base knew English  (45:01) At the end of his enlistment, they tried to get him to reenlist o Told him he would get recalled o High pressure situation o The impression he got was that they told him he would fail o They offered him a choice of duty station, enlistment bonus, and a guarantee for the next rank o Mr. Kangas felt this wasn’t right  (46:40) He was a specialist E4; corporal  (47:00) When one first enlists, it’s an 8 year commitment o 4 years active, 4 years inactive �o At any point within that time frame, he could get called back  (47:34) Got back to US in October 2005 o Was on unemployment for 6 months o Got to spend time with wife and daughter o Got to travel around the country a bit o Worked at Costco o Eventually worked at a dial-up internet company, then to Comcast o Tech support at Comcast  (48:19) After working at Comcast for about a year, he got a letter with orders o Had to call a number and set up plane tickets  (49:18) Sent to Ft. Benning, Georgia, for two weeks o Didn’t know where he was going after that o Spent the first week in civilian clothes; there was a lot of drinking o In-processing, medical stuff o There were people there who’d been seriously injured and they were trying to push them through o Lots of retirees came back o Also Vietnam vets o He said that older people were trying to get back in with the promise of more money, and the younger people were trying to get out  (51:31) It was supposed to be a refresher in basic training, but Mr. Kangas didn’t feel that it was o AIT training was the same thing; also spent time drinking o Nobody knew what was going on o At Ft. Sill, he knew he would be supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom, but didn’t know the capacity of it o The last two days there, got orders, sent to Ft. Hood, Texas  (52:54) Said that nobody knew who they were at Ft. Hood o At airport for 4 hours �o Medical units who were rotating out picked them up; they didn’t know what to do with them o (53:44) Did nothing for two weeks but watch movies o Was attached to the Wyoming National Guard o Unit was 1st in the 15th Fires Brigade  (54:20) They went through an interview process for a job o Found out they would be driving trucks from Kuwait to Iraq o Had nothing to do what they’d previously done in the military  (55:40) At Ft. Hood, they went through a crash course of what it meant to be in the Army o 4 months of deployment in Ft. Hood o Went back to Iraq  (57:19) Stayed in Kuwait first, like the first time  (57:51) Went back to Iraq on July 4th, 2009 o Same situation as before, except less attacks o Never fired his weapon once during this time o Drove 4-8 hours from Kuwait to Iraq back and forth o 7-8 months of this o (59:17) They drove out at night; there wasn’t really a strict schedule o On a night time schedule  (1:01:05) When he got recalled, there were a lot of women in his unit (none the first time)  (1:01:40) Said that work was done effectively, but worried that if something happened, he may not be able to trust the guy next to him  (1:03:00) More than a quarter of his unit was made of returning veterans o They stuck together  (1:03:35) Said there wasn’t any problems in his unit with women, but heard about a lot of rape that happened in other units o Because of this, there were sexual harassment briefs � (1:05:30) Said it was combative between his unit and the National Guard unit  (1:06:26) Saw that stress was getting to others in the recall unit even though it was a lower combat situation o Stress was 10x higher o Some people were so angry about being recalled; stuck the entire year  (1:07:00) He said after the first time they lightly talked about PTSD, but not much because they saw it as a sign of weakness o Talked about a guy who needed help, addicted to sleeping pills, said he needed help himself, ended up dying in Iraq on a motorcycle o On the 2nd deployment, the mentality that PTSD was weakness had changed  (1:08:25) Said that basic training was made easier the second time o They were trying to mitigate suicides  (1:09:15) Mr. Kangas bought his own plane ticket home after he was done Going Home  (1:09:54) When they got back to Ft. Hood, it was a race to leave  (1:10:03) Got back home in late March or early April of 2010  (1:10:12) Worked for a few months, laid off, was on unemployment  (1:10:19) Had plans to go back to school  (1:10:31) Said that he learned to be punctual, other positive effects, but something negative is alcoholism o Knows many people who served that drink a lot  (1:11:24) When they got back to Germany, drug use was high among military members o Meth and ecstasy available  (1:12:26) He says the stress of his job was unique; sometimes sat in the box for days at a time by his self waiting for something to happen o Complete boredom to absolute fear in a second  (1:12:56) Says that he would do it all over again � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KangasJ1115V Title A name given to the resource Kangas, John (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kangas, John Description An account of the resource John Kangas was born in Cedar Springs, Michigan in 1981. After graduating high school he was unemployed for awhile before enlisting in the army in 2001. He received his training at Ft. Sill. He worked the radar, assigned to 1st Battalion, 33rd Field Artillery. Mr. Kangas spent almost a year in Germany before going to Iraq. He worked on three different bases in or near Balad and Fallujah while staying in Iraq for a year. He then spent more time in Germany before going home. He was recalled into the military in 2009 and served in Iraq for another 7-8 months driving a truck back and forth from Kuwait to Iraq. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-06-09 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1fab6ddc1fa267d56eb384cbed8e9ecc.jpg 1f297c429fa68d258f7726f4449b3c7d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_40_1915-1916_005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1916-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Kansas City Station from east Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Kansas City train station. Taken by Robert Merrill from the east. Subject The topic of the resource Union Station (Kansas City, Mo.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/721a011381765b119b6267e56d6750b0.jpg 4ad44cbe79875303d738bc64a7a95d4e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_40_1915-1916_004 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1916-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Kansas City Station from south Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Kansas City train station. Taken by Robert Merrill from the south. Subject The topic of the resource Union Station (Kansas City, Mo.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e034af4199a2ddad581f156cb665d9fb.mp3 4e3853da05ee8c8fabba76008a419197 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5051d490a498b542a21a3c49172b94da.pdf 1b924b6c437157333ae70fc75811477d PDF Text Text Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 1 Alyssa Morgan: Oh Now its going. Oh thank god. You’re right. I pressed it twice. Okay, not it’s recording because see the time is, it want doing anything before. Alright, sorry. This is Alyssa Morgan and I’m here today with Karen Morgan, my sister at the Saugatuck Douglas Historical Center in Douglas Michigan on, June nd , this oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today, I’m interested to learn more about um, your family history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck Douglas area. Can you please tell me your full name and spell it? Karen Morgan: [Whispering] You didn’t say I was your sister. [Pause] Karen Morgan K A R E N M O R G A N. AM: Okay, um we’re going to start with questions about um, for someone, seasonal residence because Karen was here in the summers. So, how and when did you first come to Saugatuck Douglas area? KM: Okay, um, right after I graduated from high school, it was 9 and I actually started um when the restaurant in the, on Lake Macatawa was newly opened, um, Point West and I was the first group of waitresses that they hired and I knew nothing about waitressing. The Holland experience was a whole new experience for me and I really flubbed up a lot, ordering, went to the bar one night to order a daiquiri and I got mixed up and called it a Dykstra. So we had a lot of exciting adventures trying to be a waitress at the newly opened West Point um, restaurant. Um, but the next summer, I came here with my girlfriend and um, that’s when we settled between Saugatuck and Holland in a little rented cottage. [Whispers] Do you want to go on with that? AM: Yeah, well I was going to say, what were your first impressions of the area? For that, even like the first year, in Holland. KM: Oh the first year, oh the first year was just an exciting time for me, um, I got, I got introduced to the Christian Reform religion from my landlady who would not allow me to um, wash my uniform on Sundays and um, but you know it was just generally, that was the first year away from home, it was a very exciting time, just to have an adventure and meet new friends and do something on my own, um, the next year, I don’t know if you want to ask another question, leading question? AM: Oh um, no you can go ahead. KM: Okay the next year when I came with my best friend and we also both, um, worked at the restaurant um, until she got fired because we talked too much, together while we were working and so she ended up working in um, at the Butler in Saugatuck. So that drew us more into the Saugatuck area um, and we stayed in that house, until about the middle of summer, until we um, our partying got a little bit out of hand and our landlords told us we had to leave. Um, in the meantime my girlfriend Meryl had a big, great big car, used car and um, it didn’t work always properly, in fact it wouldn’t go in reverse at one point and she had to drive around the cottage to get to the road to go to work every day because it wouldn’t go in reverse. We thought, you know now I’m laughing at it, but at that time it was kind of traumatic but we, we also still joked about things like that because we were so young. I was also on a, it was a very freeing time in our little cottage between um, Saugatuck and Holland. AM: And where was it? You don’t, you don’t know what road it was? �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 2 KM: Well actually, when my girlfriend came back to visit one time, we actually tracked it down and tried to find it and we finally did think that we found it, it had changed a lot because it was just like a little cottage on the side of this house, I mean a cottage that hasn’t being inhabited. AM: 64th or 62nd, or? KM: Yeah one of those streets. AM: Yeah between the two. KM: Um, and but, I remember from that time, some of the songs I was telling my sister about this but just trying to just think about back to those time that it was um, I am the rock, Simon Garfunkel Mrs. Robinson from 1966 this would be um, course I was always trying to lose weight and look good, so I was on a rice and fruit diet that summer, so all we had in the fridge was a big joke. We had fruit and beer. [Laughs] AM: Not much different then you have now except you don’t have the beer. [Laughs] Okay. KM: Okay, go ahead. AM: Okay I was going to say, okay did you have a summer job locally, and then how old were you? So you were like, right out of high school? KM: the first summer and then 19 with my girlfriend, yes. AM: Yeah, yeah. Um, let me see what was that experience like, um, did you, oh, tell about the, the bird center, because didn’t you get? [00:05:02] KM: Okay, so after, to continue, after um, we had to leave our little cottage, we we scrambled around to look for a place in Saugatuck and at that time, um, there was a place called the Bird Center and this was a popular place for waitresses to um, live during the summer while they worked um, each room had a birds name on it and the lady who owned it um, lived behind us and that, that building still stands on. AM: It’s right on Lake Street. KM: On Lake Street. AM: And someone told me, and I don’t know, remember I told you that someone told me just recently that that lady um who owned it, and I don’t know if it was the same one, but I think it was, just died. KM: Died. Okay. AM: No that long ago. KM: That could be. Um, so I remember a couple of the girls that were actually there, Bridget um a big busted gal real sweet she was always trying to exercise and lose weight a woman named a a friend named Barb um, so it was right there kind of where we could just right in the center of town so we could, we were really centrally located. AM: How much did you pay, do you remember? �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 3 KM: I don’t know. I can’t remember, I just remember that there, my sis, my girlfriend and I had to share a bed because that was, we just had this little room with one bed and there was always sand in the bed because we’d always come in from the beach. And our sheets were always full of sand. AM: Oh! I know something that my sister was telling me that was really funny about Mom and Dad not knowing where you were living? That was the first summer? KM: Uh, listen. I was telling her that the first summer, oh, no it would be the second summer when I was with my girlfriend we came over here looking for a place and actually tried to find a place in Holland at the time because we were both going to be working in Holland and there was a little apartment and um, we thought we might get, but then it fell through and so we had to sleep in the car. But we can’t, Alyssa can’t figure out why my parents wouldn’t know where we were staying. But I do know while we were at the Bird Center, one day we looked out the window and there was my girlfriend’s father, Tony walking around looking for Marilyn so. AM: Because he didn’t know where she was? KM: Yeah! AM: And of course that was before cellphones. KM: Oh yeah AM: Or anything like that. Ah, let me see [inaudible] Oh, did you spend time on or near the water and what activates did you participate in and where did you go? KM: Okay well we went to the beach, uh, I actually have a photo of me that was in the newspaper from um, being at Oval Beach um, I do remember just loving to walk to the dunes, um, see where we, I came, I came from Hastings which was miles inland and we had many lakes there but we were um, as a, as a small child we used to come, children we used to come and um, vacation just like for a day at Lake Michigan and that always was a big deal we didn’t do it very often. AM: And we usually went to, Holland. Or Grand Haven or something. KM: So I was drawn to this area, we had experienced it just a very little so I, I mean I just was always drawn to the big lake and we didn’t use the beach I remember, I remember sun bathing in the dunes it was just so beautiful. AM: Um, if you stayed in Saugatuck did you ever go to Douglas and if you were in Douglas did you ever go to Saugatuck? We’re discussing this every day. KM: Okay, uh, we don’t, I don’t remember anything about Douglas at all. AM: Yeah, nothing, right? KM: Nothing, it was just the word Saugatuck and we stayed around there. AM: Interesting, yeah. Okay. Uh, were there any other places or institutions um that were important to you here in Saugatuck at that time? Like any other, I guess it would be like even restaurants? KM: Arts. �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 4 AM: Yeah, okay KM: Well my girlfriend when she came back to visit me she uh, thought that the Sandbar might have been there for, I mean she felt the Sandbar was there when we were there. I don’t remember it. But of course she worked at the Butler and then, of course the Coral Gables was, was the big um, place and her boyfriend, um Rocky Driver who was from Detroit he was a bar, he was a bouncer at the um, the bar down below. What would I call that, The Old Crow I think they called it? I think it’s called the Old Crow. So that was the center of activity and I do remember um, actually you might have a… AM: Question? KM: Question later on about this. I’ll go on. AM: Go ahead. KM: Oh, okay I was just going to say, in front of the Old Crow I was just telling her husband this morning, but in front of the Old Crow I do remember this, they had a um, it was considered like a party town uh they, they did have like a some kind of truck or camper or something parked in front of the old Coral Gables and they were giving out free Martinis to everyone. [AM Laughs] They were. AM: Did they check your IDs? KM: I don’t remember, but I just remember that I never drank martinis after that. [Both laugh] AM: That’s funny, okay let me see I think I got most of these, a seasonal, okay how did you first come to Saugatuck, why did you first come to Saugatuck? KM: Who I came with. AM: To get away from mom and dad? What as that like, your first impressions, how long you’ve been coming to Saugatuck, what else, where else do you live during the year, okay well, um, who did you come with, with your girlfriend, okay, what was this area like then? Um, what was your favorite place to eat in the summer? Did you, you probably didn’t. KM: We didn’t eat out much, although you know we did work at the restaurants so we probably just ate at the restaurant a lot. [00:10:04] AM: Yeah. Because you kept working there, the second summer, right? KM: The second summer then I actually worked in a bar at the, towards, right towards the end I was a bartender. Although in those days of course you couldn’t drink. I worked at, yeah I was a cocktail waitress at Point West. Um, and but of course because, I couldn't, I wasn't for me to drink although I serving was cocktails. AM: Right. �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 5 KM: Yeah. AM: Yeah, yeah. Um, where did you guys, so you just ate the restaurant, don't you remember, and you had that, kitchen in the one place. The bird, the Bird Center, they didn’t, they just had a room. KM: You’re right. Yeah, okay. I don't remember where we ate. AM: You don’t remember. KM: That's right. I don't know. AM: Um, I, I want to ask about students because you were student then because, um, we're you saving money for, for college? KM: Um, yes. AM: Yeah. KM: That's what I was here for. I was a student at Western um, and I did lend $60 to my girlfriend's boyfriend called Rocky Driver, who he never, never paid me back. AM: [Laughs] And that was a lot of money in 1960, 6 was it? Was it the second year? KM: [Laughs] Yes. AM: Yeah we figured it's probably about $300 now, or more. Um, well this question, you know this is for the students, says for students but, how did your first hear of Saugatuck Douglas. I guess it would just be because you got their job at the… KM: Yeah I don't know. See I used to, when I was, you know, in school that's what kids used to do. We used to, you know I guess they still do but I mean, you know, we used to go to places and I had looked at Lake George in New York. AM: Oh, right. KM: You know, and it was exciting or you went to Fort Lauderdale, in those days. So this was actually the closest place, you know and they needed, needed waitresses. AM: Right. Let me see, how did you first year in Saugatuck Douglas, okay. Who did you visit the area with others from your school, family members, we kind of talked about… KM: I can tell a little bit more about Point uh, Point West a bit. I just remember there was um, Stan was the um, was the mean Chef, the head chef that you know no one, he, we were scared of him because everything had to be perfect, and we didn't ever do anything right. And Martha was the head, the oldest waitress that was, would go into complete fits if you didn't get your omelet fast enough and it fell before you served it, and then I started dating Danny the bartender. AM: Oh, right, and he was, I'm not being interviewed this is Alyssa, but Karen foxed me up with a blind date. I was still in high school and I came over and I had a blind, blind date with, was he a bus boy or something? KM: His name was Warren. �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 6 AM: Warren. KM: And Alyssa dressed all in white, she looked so cute. AM: One night, that was it. [Laughs] Okay, um so we're going to go onto questions about life, work, and shenanigans. In Saugatuck Douglas and you’ve answered some of these but there might, there might be some others. How would you describe Saugatuck Douglas to someone who has never been here and, I, I assume that means when she was living here but you might want to say both? Um, and how would you compare the area to other places you’ve lived or worked? KM: Okay. AM: This is a good time. KM: Okay, so we'll talk about um, the idea that I actually started out here um, like right after high school of course drawn to the water and the freedom of um, a resort area and what happened is I actually ended up um, on the East Coast working for Eastern Airlines as a flight attendant, so I lived in Boston for four years and then I was drawn again to Cape Cod, south of Boston, and that, that is it was an island, or I mean a peninsula basically as you know, surrounded by water and beaches and really a more free lifestyle which probably started when I started living in Saugatuck and sort of formed my opinion of that kind of um, a beautiful nature area, but also, um, you know people are drawn to it for um, interesting ideas, and art and then we actually when Alyssa moved down there also, we all done together and we lived on the lower Cape and then actually ended up living at one point um, in Provincetown which would be, you know similar to Saugatuck in some ways. Um, you know on the east coast, you know there’s a more, a New York influence of course but then I got very interested very involved in art from living in uh, in Provincetown, and of course we had the beauty of the beaches and water, just like here, and so then when I came back to Michigan for, um, some more family um, involvement and security, with, with my elder relatives and I again was drawn back to Saugatuck. I used walk a dog, we didn't have any place that I walked this dog in Hastings and so um, I started going uh, okay let's just go to the beach. So I'd take her to the beach and then Alyssa started coming with me and then I brought my Dad over, um he was like 90 years old and I would take him to Wally's. We’d go to the coffee shop, Uncommon Grounds and he would go to Wally's and have his cocktails and so, Saugatuck is actually been sort of, uh reflective of my life on the East Coast a little bit smaller scale but something I can still get involved with, with the still freedom of the beauty and the water and um, people that are involved, you know the fun people that are coming here to have fun. [00:15:27] AM: Uh, and how long did you live on the East Coast a number of years, right? I do know, but. KM: 30 years, 30 years. AM: 30 years so she was gone long time. Um, really, and so was I. Um, so you compared to other places you’ve lived or worked, okay. In what, in what ways has the area changed? KM: Okay. AM: Over the time you've been here or been coming here. �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 7 KM: Okay. Uh, now see when I was here as a young person I really was working and just, you know dating, meeting guys and that kind of thing, um, having new girlfriends so I wasn't that involved in the culture so much I can actually think about it, um, you know in a more mature way but um, I do know since I developed artistic um, uh interests on the East Coast when I came back here I started getting more interested in the, in the arts that you have here and got, got, I go to Oxbow sometimes and see what's going on there and so forth so I know that was already here but I really didn't know too much about it, but I think it has developed more in, in the, with the arts. [pause] And restaurant development. AM: Oh yeah, I was going to say like housing and, how is that, is that changed? KM: Well housing, I'm sure, I don't know so much about the housing because we don't, I don't live here but. AM: Yeah. KM: The restaurants would be also something that are, is actually a lot better than, you know, course long time ago. AM: Yeah, yeah. KM: A lot more variety and, okay. AM: Uh, well this question you kind of answered, why was Saugatuck Douglas your destination of choice in the summer. I mean you. KM: Yeah, it gave me a sense of freedom. AM: Um and you, can you tell us some of your favorite memories of being here in the summer or uh, poignant memories or sharp? KM: Kind of vivid? AM: Yeah, vivid memories. KM: Okay, so I'm going to um, recall a story that was uh, sharp, it, it was a sad story actually but it was part of what had happened this summer. Um, when my girlfriend was dating uh, Rocky Driver from Western. He, they were from Detroit, he was in Detroit so his, his best friend was named Bruce. And so they would drive over in their motorcycles to come see us. And I sort of start hanging out with Bruce, um, real nice guy, he was going to Eastern College, Eastern, Eastern University so they actually ended up renting a little, a little cottage and be on the left side of, would be across the street from us. What's our street? AM: Lake Street. KM: Lake Street. So that be on the, the inlet that comes in. Okay, that's, I think those are all gone now, of course. They were, they’d be on the left hand side, right on the water there just a little cottage that were available, so they start renting those. We, this is just more like midsummer probably and um, anyway one night um, after it was like a Friday night, almost sure Bruce and I, he came over to see, and I was at the bird Center and I'm remember exactly what I wore I had this little white crop top I had borrowed, borrowed Barb and low slung, you know, blue hipster pants and sandals, and we sat in the �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 8 porch for a while I sat in his lap and we had a nice time and we walked down town to the ice cream shop and I think ice cream shop is probably still there or at least it's the same area. It was there then and we, and he, he, he had um, mint chocolate chip ice cream, just was a nice evening together and we went back to his, down to his little cottage and we started drinking you know I don't know what beer and stuff wasn't hugely a party or, at that point. But anyway then after a while, and Rocky was I think, uh, working at the, as a bouncer that night so he wasn’t at the cottage and then um, a few people showed up later on as the evening, evening wore on and um, Bruce was outside and I was supposed to go the next day to Detroit with him actually because his parents were in vacation in Canada and we were supposed to go the next morning to Detroit to have a party for the weekend. So, um, our weekend was kind of planed. Well he goes outside he starts up, I'm kind of just with my girlfriend, kind of out of it because I drank too much and stuff, so I run out, I hear the motorcycle run, running so I run out and say where you going, he said I’m going for a ride well he took this woman for ride her name was Ann from Lansing. I didn't know her but they, they go and off and no big deal so then but he never came back and I got later and later and later and I just thought wow what happened you know this is weird, really weird so I finally go home and I'm walking around with Barb. I was really upset at that, at that point and didn't know what happened, so I go back. I go to bed and I hear our land lady from the bird Center comes in and says there's been a fatality. Well I jump out of bed and, a motorcycle fatality, so anyway I run down of the cabin and sure enough Rocky and Marilyn were there and Bruce had gotten killed on his motorcycle. He got, he had gone out and taken Ann on a ride and came back and that big curve on Lake Street on the, on the curve there, this is before they used to have to wear helmets. He must've hit the telephone pole and um, hit his head evidently and broke his neck or something and died right there at the scene and Ann had broken her leg. So of course we just were all totally in shock and um, he was such a nice guy, a real nice guy, you know just sweet guy. A student, twenty one years old. Anyway so we did go and we rented a, we had a, I had my old black Ford and we actually went to a funeral in Detroit after that but um, I called my Dad and he said, I think it's time to come home. [Laughs] So that was kind of the end of a you know, a great summer but still you know we had, it was a great summer and he did have a good time while he was he was here with Rocky on his motorcycle so, you know, that's kind of the starkest memory in the summer. [00:21:08] AM: Yeah. Um, where there a lot of motorcycles around then? KM: Um. You know. AM: There's a, there’s another question about it here. KM: Yeah. AM: It said um, what type of shenanigans did you get into, were you a participant, an instigator, or bystander of mayhem? And I love that word mayhem and shenanigans. [Laughs] Yeah, okay, and what was your impression of law enforcement? Did you ever get involved? KM: No, not really. AM: Did you ever get caught or see someone else get caught and what happened? Caught doing, I don't, I'm not sure really what, but I don't know if that be like drinking under age or doing some… �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 9 KM: Yeah I’m, this, we were just all kind of, it was sort of innocent behavior when, at that time, in those years. I mean from my, my experience. I never saw anything really. AM: Yeah. KM: Too crazy or too wild but then again you know, I wasn't here that long it wasn’t out late at night particularly, you know? So. AM: What special events, if any did you attend in Saugatuck, things like music festivals, motorcycle races parties? You've talked about the parties. KM: Yeah. AM: Did you ever go to any parties that were you know like invited, you are invited with a whole bunch of others? KM: Yeah, you know, I don't, I don't remember that so much. AM: Yeah. KM: I don't remember it. AM: You were probably working a lot weren’t you? KM: Yeah, I don't, I don't number. AM: Yeah, um, and were these organized events are informal, everything was, was it formal? KM: Everything that I knew was pretty informal. AM: Uh huh. KM Yeah. AM: Uh huh. Describe a scene of mayhem. I guess you know, Bruce. That's not really mayhem, but I guess that would be the closest to… KM: Yeah. AM: Something being very upsetting or? KM: Yeah. It, well it changes your life in some you ways, you start to, you grow up faster when see something like that happen. AM: Yeah. KM: Yeah. AM: Um, well there’s. KM: And then also when my girlfriend, um, when she’d come to visit me, we, I would bring her over here. AM: Yeah. �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 10 KM: Marilyn, we would go to the coffee shop and of course we had… AM: And Marilyn, um, you might want to say, just say some about Marilyn, having, having left kind of, kind of, I mean she well, no she stayed in Michigan for a while and then she left Michigan. KM: Yeah she went to Detroit. AM: Yeah. KM: And then went to Colorado actually. AM: Yeah. KM: Lived in Colorado most of her life. AM: Are you in, you don't know any of the other people? KM: Oh. Any up here? AM: Yeah. KM: Um, no I don't, I don't. AM: Where are those girls from, Barb and, did they go to college or? KM: Yes, I, I probably? AM: Probably? KM: No, I don't really remember it’s kind of how, you know how it is when you get, when you. This is an interesting thing because, since it's all about memory. AM: Yeah KM: You sort of have since I've been talking about this with Alyssa, things have actually come, um, clear. You know a little more clear that never even thought about it all, so that's been kind of interesting thinking about what had actually happened, my memory. But there seems like, it's just like anything with memory there's certain, there's certain shots or certain slats, a sliff, uh what’s the word. AM: Slice? KM: Slices of, just memory. So I'm not, I'm not doing a real big full picture here because I, I think that is like anything you remember when you were young. AM: Yeah. KM: You think of, just sort of… AM: The outfit you had on... KM: Yeah! Yeah but after that I mean all the time in between that kind of, you know it's kind of a blank. AM: Did you have to wear a gold uniform? KM: Yeah it was gold. �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 11 AM: [Laughs] I remember that! KM: It was gold, gold and white shoes and a little white blouses. You know remember the golden uniform? AM: I remember they were, ugly. KM: Yeah. AM: They're like that real... KM: Actually the bar, bar, tender, I mean a bar maid. I got to wear a white blouse with white ruffles in front. AM: Oh. KM: Like, more V-neck and a, and a burgundy skirt. AM: Oh, burgundy. KM: Yeah. AM: Because we used to have to wear, I wore black I think, one time. KM: Okay. Yeah, that was… AM: Everybody did? Everybody wore the? KM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:25:00] AM: Um, also oh you might want to say something about um, Mary Cook's cottage because wasn’t that where? KM: Oh! Okay. Well this is might be the way that we were introduced to this area. AM: Yeah. KM: Okay. AM: In a way. KM: Okay, um, my father's uh, parents friend Mary Cook and her husband Les used to have a cottage that’d be right back behind where the restaurant was. So, and those, those were. AM: That was, um? KM: Point West. AM: Point West. KM: Yes, okay in Holland and they, they’re was these, [pause] adorable, um Lake Michigan cottages. Old cottages and there was like planks that went out to the beach you can walk along the plank between the cottages and you’d walk out to the beach. And we allowed, we were allowed, I think we probably rented �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 12 from her, or she allowed, allowed us to stay, our family I'm not sure. But we stayed there a few times. Um, and we just loved that. So that was probably one, another reason I was drawn to this area. AM: Yeah, uh-huh, and we don’t know if those cottages are there, right? KM: I don't think there, I think I looked for them when I came back here actually and I came back, and that’s that gated area back there. AM: Oh. KM: There’s like a gated area now. AM: Yeah. KM: You have to go through the gate and it's, I don't know if they might have maintained some. I don't know about this. AM: Yeah. KM: They might have maintained or remodeled them somehow. AM: Yeah. KM: But the whole, the whole feeling of the old cottages is not there the way was. AM: Yeah. KM: Yeah. AM: Because we don't, well I shouldn’t speak for you, but spending time in Holland really, you know. KM: Yes. You have to go back and look, you don't you have to go back and look for that. Which I did when I first came back here I did go back and look to sort of retrace my steps and um, I couldn't find but I did find some areas that were familiar, you know a little bit. AM: Um, let me see if there's any other, is anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to talk about? Um, there's a couple actually, a couple of these looking towards future, is kind of interesting. KM: Looking towards the future? AM: Well there’s a couple, let me see, there’s one, um. [Pause] Oh, okay this is a good one. Remembering that this interview will be saved for a long time, when someone listens to this tape fifty years or plus from now, years from now. KM: Yeah. AM: what would you like, what would you most like them to know about your life and community although this is not really where she lives, but, you know. KM: Okay. Okay I will, I will um since I'm very much into nature and so is my sister and uh, my friends, we’re into nature preservation. Um, and so my experiences living on Cape Cod because the Kennedy's established the national seashore there and, and, saved the beaches which is what makes it so very, very special for everyone that lives in this country. Is that our conservation, the, the, what is it the �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 13 alliance group that’s here? That's been fighting so hard to protect, to protect our beaches and our marinas areas, um or actually not to develop new marinas. Uh, this for the Historical Society is something that really needs to be looked at and, and supported where we are preserving what we have here. Because otherwise this interview wouldn't, will not be taking place in the future. AM: Yeah. KM: You'll not be having people here that want to come here because of the beauty um, unless you, we as a community work really, really hard to keep what we have so we, so our generations behind us can have the same kind of experiences that I, that I have experienced. AM: Good. Very good, I, I agree. KM: Okay. AM: Uh, and then this, this is kind of goes along with it but any advice for the young person who may listen to this tape? KM: Oh, I don't know. Just um, just a way to open your mind and meet new people and maybe sort of, um, if you get involved in volunteering or work is to um, to be able to um, grow and um, contribute to your community. Get involved in projects that would that um, that would make the um, the community more, more livable. It's a great place to live here so I think that be something that um, young people could not only work but also just um, enjoy it, but also to contribute in some way. AM: Yeah, I, I’d say one thing that was interesting, Karen and I were talking about um, yesterday is we were talking about, we wonder and we don't really know how many young people come from college. KM: Oh. AM: Yeah, and work like they used to do. KM: Is, is housing um, affordable? AM: Affordable? I mean this is just kind of an open question, it's not even… KM: Because I Cape Cod the housing is not affordable for, um college students any more. AM: Yeah, to come and work. KM: So we don’t know if that’s… AM: Yeah. KM: Is that, is that something? AM: We don't have the kids here or, know you, grandchildren, so we don’t know. KM: But that’s a good question. Is there being, is there being um, affordable housing provided somehow. AM: Yeah, and do they, and do they need, um… KM: More support? �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 14 AM: Young workers, well, young workers. KM: Oh! AM: You know, in the stores and restaurants I don't, we, we don't even really know that question. KM: Yeah. [00:30:00] AM: But, um I mean maybe it's fine. KM: Yeah. But that would be a different… AM: Um, maybe it’s totally changed. KM: May be a different experience of people. AM: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that was probably, I asked Karen this um, couple days ago and we were talking about, um, if she remembers if a lot of people were, were living like she did at the Bird Center. KM: Yeah, I think they were. AM: Or, you know young people that working, coming in saving money. KM: Yeah, and that's why was much so fun. AM: Yeah, because um at that time and because I'm four years, I'm not trying to take over your interview. KM: No… AM: Because I’m four years, you know younger but I was within that same generation basically what um, young people. I don’t want to say everyone, but so many of us, that's what we did, because we, we had to contribute to paying for our university um degrees or going to college. KM: Yeah. AM: Just put it that way. KM: So you had to have enough affordable housing that you could still save money. AM: You could still save money and that's what happened on Cape Cod, that you know, they can no longer really do that. KM: Yeah, so the community should, should look at that. AM: Yeah I, yeah I don’t know if they still do. KM: Yeah. AM: Um, is there anything else that you'd like to share that I may not have asked you about? Is there anything else? KM: I can't really remember. I'm still um, still enjoying the beaches and… �Karen Morgan – Interviewed by Alyssa Morgan June 15 AM: Yeah, and we went swimming! KM: And we're swimming, I’ve been swimming since um, well in Lake Michigan, well we went this weekend. AM: Last week, last weekend. KM: Last weekend, um, and we love that coffee shop in town, of course. So, we think Saugatuck is just as great as it ever was fifty years ago. AM: [Laughs] Very good, very good okay. Thank you very much for your, so much for your time and for sharing your memories with me. Memories that I've heard about before, by the way since I'm her sister [Laughs] KM: And thank you for interviewing me. AM: Yeah this concludes the interview, I’m going to see if I can turn this off now. [00:31:52] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-MorganK-20180604 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morgan, Karen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-06-04 Title A name given to the resource Karen Morgan (Audio interview and transcript), 2018 Description An account of the resource Karen Morgan moved to the Saugatuck area after she graduated from high school and began waitressing at the new West Point restaurant in the 1960s. In this interview, Karen reminisces about her young adulthood in Saugatuck. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Morgan, Alyssa (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Beaches Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91d644bf74a52844d9c16510d6a95e05.mp4 7b2b542d78ca331a97df008e0d95cb99 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/200569fc976d3b20857c55eafd28958e.pdf a25ffe5194e638dd9987fb1d36bb81ce PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewer: Danielle DeVasto Interviewee: Karen Vorce | Date of Interview: 2023-01-13 Danielle DeVasto: I'm Dani DeVasto, and today, January 13, 2023, I have the pleasure of chatting with Karen Vorce. Karen, thanks so much for coming and talking with me today. Karen Vorce: Of course. Thanks for having me. Danielle DeVasto: Can you tell me about where you're from Karen, and where you currently live? Karen Vorce: Yes. Um, I- I live here in Kent County, Michigan, um, on the west side of Kent County in the City of Walker, and I also work here in Kent County as well, um, at the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy in the Remediation Redevelopment Division, and our district office is in downtown Grand Rapids, in Kent County. Danielle DeVasto: And how long have you been in Kent County, Karen? Karen Vorce: Let's see, I've lived in Kent County now for about six and a half years. Um, I actually moved to the west side of Michigan, from the Metro Detroit area in the summer of 2016. Danielle DeVasto: Thank you. Karen, can you tell me a story, please, about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? Karen Vorce: Sure, yes. Um, so it kinda has to deal with me working for the State of Michigan and the Department of Environment. Um, I started here at the state, um, in February 2017. I transferred over from doing environmental work in consulting, um, for a number of, uh, [LIP SMACK] the regulated community in the State of Michigan, for about seven years, and so I was really excited. Um, I applied for the job at the state, and I was able to get the job and, um, [LIP SMACK] always had wanted to work for- for the State of Michigan. And, [LIP SMACK] um, so I started in February 2017, and that was right when [NOTIFICATION SOUND] we were just starting to learn about Scotchgard, um, the fabric protectant, uh, waterproofing used by Wolverine Worldwide, um, at their tannery facility in downtown Rockford, which was, uh, had been long gone since about 2010. And, um, so yeah, I was assigned to cover as a project manager and geologist, uh, northern Kent County on my first day, and it just so happened that this Wolverine site was located also in northern Kent County, so it landed in my lap, and I remember about a month in, you know, hearing that the citizens' group had- had met with some of my colleagues and my supervisor in January, so just about a month before I started, and had brought concerns about the waste stream that would've left the tannery [SNIFFLE] containing PFAS, the Scotchgard material, and where that was disposed of at this, uh, property called the House Street Dump. And so I remember we started looking for any records on that, and then, um, [LIP SMACK] we had never sampled for PFAS at a site, an environmental site, [LIP SMACK] um, any sites of contamination in our district before that time. So this was definitely something new to- to Eagle in our divi- our district. Um, there were a couple other sites, military installations, that had been doing testing [SNIFFLE] in other places. So we kinda had to learn, myself and colleagues had to learn the process of collecting PFAS samples, how to do it properly, um, and so we started sampling some wells, um, just to the northeast of the House Street Dump because a Page 1 �well permit had come in. Someone wanted to install a new well and knowing that the concerns that were brought to us from the citizen group, um, you know, and obviously the local health department, we all kinda were like, well, let's sample those houses around where this permit is to make sure that there's not PFAS in there. Um, Wolverine agreed to do that sampling. Um, it was difficult to- to get liable parties to do that sampling at that time 'cause we didn't have regulated, um—PFAS compounds were not regulated. We had no criteria, so really no legal teeth, um, to request sampling, but, uh, you know, Wolverine did agree. Uh, we also requested onsite work to start doing onsite sampling at the House Street site, as well as at the tannery site where it was occurring—where the tanning operations happened, but, um, you know, that was in April 2017, and then, you know, those results, fortunately, um, they did- they did detect some PFAS, but at that time we thought, okay, it's- it wasn't above the EPA lifetime health advisory that we were using, uh, which was 70 parts per trillion for PFOA and PFOS, [LIP SMACK] and, um, so we thought, okay, well at least those folks are, you know, below the 70, 'cause we didn't really have any other levels or- or known values to go off of. So, uh, we said, okay, let's- let's shift Wolverine. We need you to keep—we need you to do something at the site. We gotta get groundwater samples at the site cause there's other houses around here, right, um, that, you know, could be impacted. So that was- that was going on, and lo and behold—so the sampling was done in April. In May, the end of May, we got a call from the Department of Defense, um, because they had done sampling of the Belmont Armory, [SNIFFLE] which is on the House Street site—not on the hou—is on House Street, just down the road from the House Street Dump. They sampled their private well for PFAS because the Department of Defense was sampling all their properties across the United States at that time for PFAS because of their training with, um, [LIP SMACK] the Aqua- Aqueous Film-Forming- Film-Forming Foam, the AFFF, that they've been using at a lot of their properties. Um, that was—AFFF was not used at the Belmont Armory. It used to be a church, and then they used it for, like, band practice. So, um, when they got a hit in their well of, I believe it was 120 parts per trillion for PFOA and PFOS, um, we got that result, and we were, like, look, this- this is what, you know, we're worried about Wolverine. This is why we've been asking you to do this. We need you to sample wells now, like we know there's a problem. You can't just be focusing on the- on the site, we need to sample residential wells. And so that summer of 2017, it's kind of a blur now, but that's when, um, you know, especially as a new state employee, it was pretty intense going out to the neighborhood, um, with this emerging contaminant telling people, hey, we wanna sample your well, it may or may not be impacted with this PFAS stuff that's at this dump, that's down the street from your house, that's covered in trees, that you may not have known was there. [DEEP BREATH] Um, you know, going door to door, just having those- those conversations with people and- and not knowing in the beginning, just thinking, oh, hopefully, you know, then maybe this won't be that bad, maybe- maybe their wells are at a good depth, and it won't be a problem. I do remember the first house besides the- the homes to the northeast. Once we started going down House Street, the first door I knocked on, um, who you've probably interviewed, was Sandy Linstelz' door. She lived right across the street from House Street, and, um, yeah, I remember meeting her and just from the moment I met her, she was just such a Page 2 �nice lady, and, um, she was just so nice. She said, "Oh yeah, come on in, take a sample, do whatever you gotta do," and you know, we sampled. I think there was about 46 houses during that- that initial sampling in May 2017, or June. It was June by that time, 2017. And I still remember, uh, being in the office and getting the email results, uh, coming in of the lab, the lab sampling results, and, um, just seeing, you know, those results coming of some of those houses and the tens of thousands of parts per trillion in their drinking water well, and it really was at that moment I realized, you know, even being new to the state, sensing that something just was really wrong, this is not obviously good. Um, it's way above that 70 parts per trillion, and I'm not a toxicologist, I'm geologist, but just seeing that number I knew that's obviously not something that is good for people to be drinking, or safe. Um, and so, yeah, then I remember that afternoon, at that time my supervisor and the health department took—had to take those results and go to- go to people's houses and- and tell them right away [DEEP BREATH] what their results were. Um, yeah, so I can keep going on this story. I can go up to where we are current day, um, [LAUGHTER] if- if you wanted, um, but, yeah, that's kind of just going back to those early days. Um, just the panic that's involved with projects like this coming from a regulatory standpoint. Um, I- I think of other states, especially, or really around the world, anywhere, any- any geographic location or government, um, [LIP SMACK] where, you know, they haven't started testing for PFAS, um, they haven't started looking for it. Um, you know, I- I just want people to learn from Michigan, and- and learn from what we've experienced and had to go through to kinda learn how to look for it and address it because, um, people will find it. We're gonna keep finding it, um, but they need to start looking sooner rather than later, and I'm sure the residents who have been impacted here in Michigan, at all of our PFAS sites, not even just here in Kent County, would echo that the sooner that you can let people know that they're drinking something they're not supposed to be drinking, the better, um, because, you know, now we're learning more about it. There's kind of no more excuses that people can have. I mean, it's in- it's in the everyday CNN and all the publications are talking about PFAS. Everyone's talking about PFAS now. Um, we know it's an issue. We have more science, more health studies to document even lower levels, so our levels are now below 70 parts per trillion here in Michigan, for a number of compounds. Um, and EPA has since updated that 70 parts per trillion right to below one parts per trillion for PFOA or PFOS. Each of those are below one parts per trillion now. Um, so obviously these are harmful chemicals at very low concentrations. Um, and I think the more people realize how we're exposed to those every day, not just in our drinking water, through our everyday commerce goods, through potentially touching things that could be contaminated, dirt, soil, um, couches, you know, laying around on couches that are Scotchgarded, um, uh, cosmetics, you know, different, uh, adhesives, different things we're breathing in, even the dust particles that we're ingesting, you know, it's- it's once you start realizing kind of how ubiquitous and how much PFAS is a part of our, unfortunately, society now, it really goes to show the- the urgency and the need that is needed to- to keep addressing PFAS [SNIFFLE] 'cause the more we find out, it just seems like the more we're realizing that they're not good for us. I mean, they do their job good [CHUCKLE] on the- on the waterproofing and, um, Page 3 �the chemistry end. Yes, they're a modern marvel and, um, they do their job, but obviously they weren't made to be inside of us. Danielle DeVasto: Yeah. Right. Um, I'm wondering if you might, if you're willing to say more about your experience with PFAS from that kind of regulatory work perspective. You've kind of hinted that, you know, you're not a toxicologist, you're a geologist, and so I guess I'm just curious if you have anything else that you might say about how PFAS has kind of been a part of your work experience and- and- and impacting that. Karen Vorce: Yeah. So, um, yeah, P—un- understanding, we- I mean, we've just been like sponges soaking up the data over the last six years now, um, at this site and at others. You know, we have over 240, uh, PFAS sites now in the State of Michigan, identified. Those are locations where we have groundwater above our cleanup standards. [SNIFFLE] We have samples, um, showing that the groundwater's contaminated above that. So we have at least 240. I'm sure there's plenty more out there, we just haven't found yet. Um, I- I think Wolverine's site here in northern Kent County, it does span approximately 25 square miles of groundwater contamination. It is, I'm pretty sure the largest, um, area of contamination that we have found to date, and I'm—hopefully it stays that way. Uh, I [CHUCKLE] don't wanna find any more like this, especially such high concentrations in private drinking water wells. I mean, we have found, um, concentrations as high as 100,000 parts per trillion in private drinking water wells, um, which is just pretty- pretty insane to say out loud, um, that to date from just the various conferences, the various interactions that I've had, that I've heard others having, I haven't heard of anyone having a higher result than that 100,000 parts per trillion in a drinking water well. I've heard of it in environmental wells at sites. You know, we have 1,000,000 parts per trillion in groundwater at the tannery site, [SNIFFLE] but for someone to actually be drinking that, um, is pretty astounding and, um, you know, what we've learned about the contaminant fate and transport of PFAS, especially in this area, um, has really helped us be able to address PFAS at other sites faster, uh, get a better understanding because in the beginning, there's no way when this first started, um, that- that we knew this contaminant plume would encompass 25 square miles. Like, we were thinking, oh, you know, we have, uh, chlorinated-solvent plumes, we have petroleum, you know, gasoline-parameter plumes. We're used to dealing with contamination. That's what we do here in my division. So I would always tell people, you don't wanna see me 'cause when we show up, that means you have contamination, right, [LAUGHTER] um, unfortunately. So it's—we- we're used to it, like, okay, we'll start with these close houses and that was really hard for me personally, when this started in gaining, really having to gain the trust back of the public for- for the agency, you know, before I even, sometimes, you know, before I was born, obviously when this dumping occurred, but before I even worked at Eagle, because, um, you know, we—in the beginning of this, we were handling it like every other site we handled today, not knowing that PFAS traveled as far as it could, it's so mobile. In the complex geology that we're dealing with here in northern Kent, um, the glacial geology, and just a lot of the sand and gravel that just acted as a beautiful, unfortunately conduit for PFAS to travel long distances. You know, in the beginning, if- if what we know now, yes, I—we would've Page 4 �been expanding those sampling areas from the get-go, making them bigger. But in the beginning we— when we were taking this, okay, you start on site and then you step out and then you step out more, and then what happened was, you know, word started going around and then people were mad that, you know, well, why isn't the state or the health department coming to tell us about this? Why am I finding out from my neighbors? Or, you know, there were law firms going around, right, knocking on people's doors, and that really was difficult personally, um, for me to deal with, with people having that anger. You know, it felt very personal to me, to the department, that we weren't doing our jobs, when at the time we thought we were doing our jobs based on how other contaminants behave, based on other projects. We had never, um, dealt with anything like this. So we- I tried to take that and not- and not take it personally 'cause I knew these people, you know, these residents were not mad at Karen Vorce, they- they were mad at the situation that- that this is- that this has happened and that they have been unknowingly drinking PFAS and subjecting their families and their children and- and things to this. And so taking that, um, not taking things personally, but wanting to be an agent of change and an agent of help, to help the residents was what I started to focus on and really empathizing with them and- and- and putting myself in their shoes because yes, I was experiencing my own emotional and psychological issues with dealing with this PFAS and being a first, you know, "emergency responder" to this, which has its own types of kind of stress, but, you know, I—it was nothing compared to what people who were exposed to this and drinking it were having to deal with, and I just kept reminding myself of that. Um, and so what we learned, I think one of the main takeaways from our Wolv—as a regulator from- from Wolverine, a) transparency is extremely important to everyone, um, especially the folks who are—may or may not be impacted. So making sure you're, um, transparent and honest, even if you don't know the answers, saying you don't know the answers and that, you know, this is what we're trying to do. B) Having a robust communication plan with how you're going to reach out to residents, how you're going to have enough people to go door to door to let people know, um, using local municipalities, uh, email blasts, using different ways to reach people through social media, through door hangers, through mailers, multiple ways, 'cause some people like their information different ways, but really making sure—you're gonna think you're overcommunicating, but you're—but to some people you're still not communicating enough. So until you feel like you're communicating too much, you're not communicating enough when it comes to sites like this. Um, so that was something we learned 'cause we really had to up—the state really ups their game, if you will, on communication and public outreach based on PFAS. It was definitely lacking, um, before this. [SNIFFLE] The—and th- the residents of this area helped facilitate that change 'cause they- they were the ones who were able to point it out to, I think the agency, to say, "Hey, you know, I'm mad that I found out from my neighbor, or I found out from someone knocking on my door,and I didn't find out from the state," like, how can we make sure this doesn't happen again? Okay. So that was kind of a humbling and important learning aspect. Um, another one, especially when we're dealing with emerging contaminants and I kind of, so I said, um, [LIP SMACK] communication is pooling your resources. So I understand not every state has the same resources as Michigan, uh, every- every environmental, you know, agency, but Page 5 �really reaching out to neighboring states or reaching out to other divisions or even the federal government, putting your head in the sand and saying, you don't have the people to address the problem isn't going to solve the problem. You need to be vocal that you don't have enough resources, that you are concerned. That's how you get funding and that's how you get people involved, and you get legislator— legislative change, and you get more funding in state budgets, and so being- not being afraid to be vocal about that, to show your "vulnerabilities," as a state agency, I think a lot of agencies are afraid to do that 'cause they don't wanna look like they can't do their job, right. And you don't wanna scare people, like, oh no, my- my state agency isn't equipped to handle this. Well, no we didn't—of course not, like we didn't know about PFAS and no one really expects that 25 square miles of somewhere is going to be impacted. So, you know, you- you- you plan for the worst and hope for the best, but we really need to be—PFAS showed us we need to be prepared for things like this and don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't act like you know all the answers 'cause you're—it's gonna be pretty obvious that you don't. So we are- we tried to be pretty humble and open and honest in the beginning in north Kent, and I think that went a long way with the residents as well. Um, so those are kind of my three main, um, I guess suggestions to other regulators. And you know, we learned—we had to change a paradigm, our thinking of how we address sites of contamination, where before, and this was some of the frustration in the beginning that residents had, they were like, "Well, why are you starting on the source property with groundwater sampling and then stepping out, like, why aren't you out sampling all of the wells?" And so we had to explain, well, normally in order to know where to sample the wells, we need to know, like, groundwater flow at the site, and we need to know what the source is and, like, what the local geology is, so then we can, like, better pinpoint, you know where to sample and understand it. And then—but then in the public side and in some cases depending on the concentrations, you kinda had to go ahead of that, and you can't wait for thatthat HydroGeo investigation to happen. You have to go to the- to the receptors now and sample, and you may have to sample more than you thought you would, or you may- you may over-sample, but, hey, at least you're sampling. I'd rather over-sample than not sample enough and- and do it in a timely manner. So there definitely is an expectation, um, that you prioritize the drinking water response over the science or the academic or the hydrogeologic, which in some cases is difficult because we need the hydrogeology to tell us where it's going and where to sample, so you have to use your best professional judgment, you have to use your—the tools you have, the digital resources, best inferred groundwater direction, right, yet you gotta kinda think on your feet and- and- and do things that way. So that was obviously difficult to figure out in the beginning as you're going through this. Um, we had, in the beginning of this, um, we did call in our incident managers that we have here, our environmental, um, emergency incident managers, that we have in our Remediation and Redevelopment Division here at Eagle. So each district of RRD, Remediation and Redevelopment Division, um, has an incident manager. They all came from across the state [CLICK SOUND] to north Kent, when this started blowing up in 2017, um, to help us because this was getting to be so big and so large, and there were so many things we needed help. I- it was just me and one other colleague and my supervisor trying to field all these calls and address all these things, so Page 6 �we needed help. So we pulled in, we were able to pull in extra resources. Um, making sure you have open communication between the local, state, and federal health agencies was really crucial and the local—or the state and federal environmental agencies. So everybody was kind of at the table and everyone kinda had their lane, if you will. We started figuring out, okay, Eagle, this is your job to- to figure out where the contamination is, identify wells that need to be sampled, get the contractors out there, oversee Wolverine doing the work, um, make sure it's being done right, QAQC stuff. And then it was like, okay, health departments, your job is getting residents the results, explaining what the results mean, telling them do they need to filter, do they not need a filter? Figuring all that out was a whole thing, too, in the beginning when this was happening and who's communicating what, right. Um, that was crucial, um, to make sure that we had the right people communicating the information, who were the toxicologists epidemiologists, the health folks. Um, and- and then we were staying in our lane doing our thing and—but we were all working together, um, on the same goal. Um, so that was another huge aspect, 'cause at the end of the day, we all kinda have our- our little ex—areas of expertise, and it is tempting to kinda go out and try to boss around other agencies, but- but at the end of the day, you kinda just all start working together and get over that tur—like, this is my turf, no, this is my turf, and you just start working for your citizens, that are basically your bosses. Um, [CHUCKLE] that's what—who I work for, right, the taxpayers. So, um, that was a learning experience, and, um, you know, now- now I- I- I know who to contact if- if I have issues, you know, the health—local and state health were, like, you know, really close and EPA. Like, we're kind of all allies now from having gone through this, um, helping each other. It's not a local versus state versus federal. It's not us versus them. That can hap—I- I don't know if the general public knows that, but that- that can happen, you know, Eagles get in the way, um, you know, like, oh, the state has this handled, we don't need the fed help, or, you know, local people will be like, "Oh, the local county has us. We don't need the state's help," you know, so kinda getting in over that, those- those, um, those, you know, can- can be a humbling [CHUCKLE] experience for- for other, I'm sure states and both, they experienced similar things. Um, but I would say, you know- you know, this was, this has been—I- I call this my baby, my- my site, since I started at the state. I'm still heavily involved. I—we did hire a new, you know, project, uh, project manager [SNIFFLE] since I've transitioned into district supervisor work, um, but, you know, people from the beginning told me this is a once in a career type of issue or- or site or- or experience. When I first started, I didn't really realize that. I thought, Oh, this is- this is its normal to work, you know, have- have- have- have public meetings four nights a week and work till nine at night, and, you know, start the day again at seven a.m., and be doing all this crazy stuff and- and- and be suing multibillion dollar companies and having, you know, mediation and- and drafting consent decrees, and, well, no, that's not normal, but, um, you know, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I- I do believe, um, that God had me come to west Michigan, for a reason, um, that I was given north Kent, for a reason. I felt very underqualified in the beginning, uh, you know, a new PM, a newbie, um, kinda had that imposter syndrome, but as- as time went on, I realized that, hey, you know, I have a whole department, I have colleagues, it's not just me doing this, it's us, it's a team, everyone has their part, and I just really started focusing on the Page 7 �people and the outreach and the empathy and caring for, you know, the residents. Um, and I think at the end, you know, just focusing on your strengths, you don't need to know everything as a regulator. You have resources. You have people and experts to rely on. That was also a, um, [SNIFFLE] something I learned early on in this project. Danielle DeVasto: What a way to start, huh? Karen Vorce: Yes. [LAUGHTER] Danielle DeVasto: It's really that- that, like, tested by fire and— Karen Vorce: Yes. Danielle DeVasto: —hopefully it is truly a once-in-a-career situation. Karen Vorce: Yes, I hope so. Danielle DeVasto: Um, maybe looking forward then, what kinds of concerns do you have about PFAS contamination, moving forward? Karen Vorce: Yeah. Um, definitely I have concerns. Um, you know, as- as a mother now, when I started this project, I wasn't a mom, and, you know, went through this and- and now I- I have a one and a half year old, um, so I can empathize, uh, a lot better, too, with- with folks who had children who have been affected by contamination, you know, imagining my son drinking it or- or having been nursed on, you know if the mother was ingesting it- it tran- transmisses through- through breast milk and when the baby's developing and- and things like that. So I really worry. I really am just concerned, you know, especially always thinking ahead to the next generation, how can we reduce exposure to them? Um, and I'm really excited to see some states now, um, are banning certain products with PFAS, certain food- food packaging, um, you know, certain—I- I swear I read somewhere certain consumer goods won't be— clothing won't be allowed to have PFAS in it with—and something in New York City, I have to dig into that more. Um, you know, the- the more we can eliminate when we really don't need it, if we really don't need something to be waterproof or to have specifically these compounds, these PFAS compounds in it, let's eliminate it. Like we don't need it in dental floss. I'm pretty sure I can still use dental floss without having PFAS in it. I'll be fine with it, even if it's a little bit stickier, I don't know. [CHUCKLE] Like, um, you know, kind of just- just re-thinking our- our, um, 'cause- 'cause I understand, the manufacturers play their part, right. The- the- the capitalistic selling of things, it- it all plays its part, but at the end of the day, consumers have power, too. We have a lot of power, um, as- as consumers, and we need to be vocal with our dollars and what companies we're supporting and with our- with our legislators of what kind of legislation we wanna see in our states to foster positive change of prohibiting, you know, these products from coming into our state that eventually is gonna end up in our landfill, right, um, and end up in our environment. So I'm really excited to see the legislation and policies starting to get put in place little by little. Um, I know it'll be a long challenge, but, um, that- that is kind of a positive light. In- in the more health studies that we have done right now, there is a multi-site health- PFAS health study happening in Michigan, north Kent's involved. There's a- another site in south, uh, southwest Michigan, involved, um, and other state—other sites across the country in that as well to better understand the health, um, and document the health Page 8 �effects of exposure to PFAS and at what levels, what may you see certain adverse effects of, you know, anything from cancer to hi- high cholesterol to, um, preeclampsia, uh, things- things of those nature. So really getting a better understanding of that, I think is crucial, too, so, um, we can just spread that knowledge, so people can make informed decisions. So we know now Teflon pans with PFOA and others, some other PFAS compounds, not a good idea. So let's let consumers know that, so they can then use stainless steel or alum— you know, what different types of pans. Yes, it may not be as great for eggs, but, you know, you can- you can deal with a little bit of eggs sticking to your pan if you don't wanna eat PFAS, right? Um, you know, letting people make—being informed to make decisions about how much—at least having some control over how much PFAS they're being exposed to. I just bought a new couch for the first time 'cause I've been using hand-me-downs from family for a number of years. First question, is this Scotchgarded? Like, please, I do not wanna buy a couch that has Scotchgard or any stain-resistant treatment on it. No, it wasn't. Oh, and it's filled with recycled, um, [LIP SMACK] pieces of couches that didn't work or, you know, the filling from other—like it's recycled material on the inside. So that's even better. Cool. Okay. So making, like, decisions like that to- to eliminate, you know, your furniture, sheets, you know, clothes that really don't need to be waterproof, you know, do you really need GORE-TEX or, you know, that water repellency on those. Little decisions like that, um, but also making sure your representatives in your, um, states, your federal representatives, understand that you want, um, policy and laws that protect citizens from exposure to these that make- make us aware when things— when PFAS is in- in products. Like, trying to know all the different trade names is really difficult. I'll even try to read labels, and I'm like, I can't even tell if this is a PFAS, like, what is this, I don't know. So having better labeling, you know, there- there's things that can be done that I think, um, will start happening that are going to at least make things a little bit better for the next generation, um, so we can at least learn something from- from all of this, right? That's- that's kind of what we need to do as our responsibility, um, with- with having this knowledge. [SNIFFLE] Danielle DeVasto: And gives concrete things that we can do, instead of— Karen Vorce: Yes. Danielle DeVasto: —you know, as you pointed out, sometimes this is pretty overwhelming and— Karen Vorce: Mm-hmm. Danielle DeVasto: —widespread, far more complicated than we imagine, but— Karen Vorce: Yes. Little things we can- we can- we can try to do to make change. [SNIFFLE] Danielle DeVasto: So before we wrap up, Karen, is there anything else that you'd like to add that we haven't touched on today or anything you'd like to go back to and say more about? Karen Vorce: Hmm. I'm sure there is. I could definitely talk all day [LAUGHTER] about- about PFAS and north Kent, and just the experience and, um, and, uh, you know, the good and the bad 'cause as- as much, you know, sadness and, um, obviously harm that this contamination, um, has caused the residents in Kent County. [SNIFFLE] Um, you know, I don't- I don't let that over-shadow the, um, the good that's actually come out of this, in that I've met a lot of people that I never would've met, friendships have been Page 9 �made, um, being able to- to feel at the end of the day that you're making a difference, um, and- and helping people, um, and- and passing that on to others. It- it really feels like the citizens here have also, you know, they've really stepped up to be, like, leaders in- in this fight against PFAS, um, to- to talk to other states, to other affected communities, and seeing that, um, just has been really inspiring as well, just- just people knowing, like, you don't have to be in a position of authority. You don't have to just—you don't have to be working for an agency or- or whatever to- to be teaching people about PFAS or about your experience. Like, anyone can- can talk to people, you know, just even it—it doesn't matter what your day job is, right. If- if you've, you know, been ex—if you've been exposed to PFAS and especially folks in Kent County who have been through this, um, you know, I think it's invaluable for them to kinda reach out and- and be there for- for the other people who are going through this, um, in other communities here in Michigan. So that's- that's been pretty amazing to see, [SNIFFLE] um, to see that happen as well. Um, and I think, you know, it's always important for- for us to have our lessons learned, to learn from them, to admit when- when things could have been done differently, you know, even- even industry, right? We had industry standards and practices back in the 1940s, and '50s, that were vastly different than what we have today, right, and so just, you know, admitting that, understanding that, and trying to address that. It's- it's- it's not necessarily in all cases, like, I gotcha, like, ooh, I'm gonna- I'm gonna get those- those evil corporations, right? It- it's about, okay, I understand, I totally get it. Things were different back in the day, right, but if we know things were different, and we know there was contamination in our waste streams, companies do have—should be thinking about their historic operations and where there could be other "House Street Dumps." I know—you know, anyone listening to this to who may be a CEO of a company, you know, [CHUCKLE] or know a CEO who runs a company and- and, you know, you really need to look at- look at your company and your heart to say, hey, are- are there skeletons in the closet that I need to address, because you're gonna be living with that for the rest of your life, knowing that you ignored something and potentially hundreds of people have been impacted because of that. So that's also kind of a warning [CHUCKLE] that I'll give- give to folks, um, to, hey, just- just be- just be honest. We're- we're not dumb. People who aren't in your company, we can see through things. We- we know, and the more proactive you're going to be, the more people are gonna wanna work with you, the more collaboration you're gonna get, and, you know, you could really turn this into something that, um, doesn't have to be, you know, a fight, um, to get things done. So that- that's something I'll- I'll just throw out there as well. Danielle DeVasto: I mean, throughout the—this conversation, that theme of relationship seems to kinda— Karen Vorce: Mmm. Danielle DeVasto: —keep cropping up in your story in different ways, the different kinds of relationships that you can or have, or could build— Karen Vorce: Yep. Danielle DeVasto: —seems really important. Karen Vorce: Definitely. That's a good point. [CHUCKLE] Page 10 �Danielle DeVasto: Well, thank you so much, Karen, for taking the time to share your story today. Karen Vorce: Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And thanks for doing this project. Page 11 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0035 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vorce, Karen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2022-01-13 Title A name given to the resource Karen Vorce, 2022 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Karen Vorce is a geologist who lives in Walker, Michigan and works for the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy in the Remediation Redevelopment Division. In this interview, Karen discusses her work with PFAS contamination sites in Kent County, as well as how her concern over PFAS have impacted her family and personal decisions. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/954bc6beffe28e1d41ade01a487be8c7.mp4 99482344831b53876b85a4b1bbe160e6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/70070bc602bd85a9d5b1b0fd7c06b0f8.pdf 137e467e6f442f661e6782e08e53379d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran's History Project World War II Bill Karpowicz Total Time (01:12:18) Background (00:00:48)  Bill was born February 10th, 1924 in Muskegon, Michigan and had four sisters; Bill's father worked as a shoe repairman and in a foundry while his mother worked for Amazon Mills (00:01:55) ◦ Bill enlisted in the military on February 18th, 1942 right after he turned 18 and wound up in the Marine Corps (00:02:53) Military Training (00:03:05)  Bill had previously served in the National Guard in G Company, 126th Infantry 32nd Division in Muskegon, but had been too young to go with them when they were mobilized in October 1940 (00:03:17) ◦ Bill did his Marine boot camp at Camp Elliot in San Diego, California (00:04:19) ▪ The recruits mostly did rifle and bayonet practice- anything that pertained to combat; he mentions that the military had to train you and get you to combat in a fast manner (00:05:05)  Bill's training in California lasted for 12 weeks; there was no liberty to move about town as they had to stay at the base (00:06:35)  From Camp Elliot Bill went to North Carolina and became part of the 3rd infantry Marine Division- which became Camp Lejeune (00:07:47) ◦ Bill was stayed in North Carolina from June to November of 1942 (00:09:30) ▪ He trained on a M1903 Springfield rifle and then the M1 Garand semiautomatic rifle as well as pistols, machine guns, and mortars (00:10:49) ▪ Bill arrived at Camp Pendleton, California via train all the way across the country (00:11:50)  The training at Camp Pendleton involved hills and water training where they had to qualify to swim (00:14:15)  Bill was put on a massive ship to cross the pacific which fit around 6,000 troops; there was a ceremony once the ship crossed the equator and some troops were hazed as part of the ritual (00:17:13) ◦ The men picked were called “oddballs” or “pollywogs” and were hazed as part of crossing the equator process (00:17:55) ◦ Bill landed in February of 1943 in Auckland, New Zealand (00:19:07) ◦ The training in New Zealand, which was very mountainous, consisted of hikes of 25 and 75 miles (00:20:44) ▪ After New Zealand, Bill and the other men went to Guadalcanal for a few months of training (00:21:42) ▪ Bill was stationed near an airbase where there was often air raids in the nighttime (00:22:53) ▪ Bill's training in Guadalcanal consisted of how the Japanese fought (00:23:59) �◦ To prevent catching malaria, Bill had to take a pill called Atabrine which fought off malaria (00:25:45) Combat & Additional Training (00:26:28)  Bill moved to Bougainville Island around the fall of 1943 (00:26:28) ◦ There was fighting going on at Bougainville between the Japanese and United States (00:29:15) ◦ Although Bill's first introduction to combat was at Bougainville, he comments that it was peaceful compared to the other islands in the area (00:29:54) ▪ Bill was sent back to Guadalcanal for training after a stint in Bougainville (00:30:20)  After Guadalcanal, he was then sent to Marshall Islands for additional trainingmostly swimming (00:31:23) ◦ Bill was with M-Company, a weapons company- mortars and machine guns; he was then transferred to K-Company which was just rifles (00:32:50) ▪ After Bougainville, Bill was sent to Guam; Bill's division was the first wave in Guam (00:33:25) ▪ The Japanese did not resist their landing on the beach in Guam until Bill and the other men reached the first hill (00:34:15)  As Bill and his company went further inland, he encountered the Japanese for the first time as combat ensued (00:36:56)  A banzai attack included a rush of Japanese infantry forces at night after they drank their booze or sake; the Japanese would pick up their dead and leave by the time morning cam (00:38:16)  Bill's time in Guam was spent patrolling and defending against bonzai attacks (00:39:49) ◦ Bill was on the front line and although the Japanese got quite close, they never broke into the line (00:41:13) ◦ Bill was injured in the leg by shrapnel from a grenade in a firefight against the Japanese (00:44:22) ▪ Bill stayed at the first aid station for a few days; after he stayed on a galley with the cooks where he tried sake for the first time (00:44:57) Iwo Jima (00:46:37)  Bill spent six months on Guam before he moved off to Iwo Jima (00:46:37) ◦ There wasn't much communication between Bill and his family as it took a while for letters to be mailed (00:47:30) ▪ Bill's regiment was not part of the initial assault at Iwo Jima as they came at a later date (00:49:04) ▪ By the time Bill's regiment landed, the initial firing had stopped and it was quiet (00:49:35) ▪ While serving at Iwo Jima, Bill saw some pretty gruesome injuries to his fellow servicemen take place (00:52:09)  Bill mentioned that the enemy was well hidden into the ground and would pop out and surprise them at certain times (00:52:55) ◦ Iwo Jima was a dangerous place at the time; there were minefields in certain �◦ areas- Bill had some close calls (00:53:48) The Japanese had hidden artillery and mortars; they would probe and attack mostly at night (00:54:39) ▪ “A lot” of Bill's company got killed or wounded while at Iwo Jima; “luck of the draw” is how he described Iwo Jima (00:56:42)  Bill was on Iwo Jima for about a week before he was sent back to Guam (00:57:50)  No matter how bad combat was, the morale was up- if it was down the men would not have survived (00:58:08) ◦ The Marine Corps was trained to move on down the line if a lieutenant or captain was killed or injured (00:59:38) Back to the United States (01:01:45)  Bill and the regiment took a ship back to the United States and landed at San Pedro, Los Angeles, California; from their they went to the Marine Corps base and called home (01:03:02) ◦ Bill received a 30 day furlough home for leave; home was “entirely different” for Bill this time around (01:03:35) ◦ He traveled from San Diego to Chicago to Muskegon via train (01:04:09) ▪ After his 30 day furlough Bill was sent to DeLand, Florida (01:05:03)  Bill did security at a naval air station in Florida and continued training in the swamplands (01:05:24) ◦ Bill received his discharge papers right after the two atomic bombs hit Japan; he took a bus from DeLand to Daytona and then a plane home (01:07:43) ▪ After military life, Bill worked as a printmaker at a printshop in Muskegon (01:08:33)  Bill graduated from High School while working at a printshop; thereafter he worked as a policeman in Grand Rapids and since has retired (01:10:33) ◦ Bill says he enjoyed every bit of his Marine Corps time (01:11:28) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KarpowiczW1529V Title A name given to the resource Karpowicz, William (Interview outline and video), 2013 Description An account of the resource Bill was born on February 10th, 1924 in Muskegon, Michigan. He enlisted in the military on February 18th, 1942 right after he turned 18 and was placed in the Marine Corps. He did his boot camp at Camp Elliot in San Diego, California. From Camp Elliot Bill went to North Carolina and became part of the 3rd infantry Marine Division- which became Camp Lejeune. After training in Auckland, New Zealand, Bill was sent to Guadalcanal for additional training. Bill partook in fighting at Bougainville Island in the fall of 1943; he was then sent back to Guadalcanal. From there, Bill and his division were sent to Guam. Bill received the Purple Heart in Guam after he was hit with shrapnel from a Japanese grenade. After six months in Guam, Bill was sent to Iwo Jima where he encountered heavy fighting as his regiment took many casualties. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Karpowicz, William Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-09-19 Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b2779b2581d3e16c8cb95feb8e962f56.mp4 2eccd7fd2151ccb6e355f57fea74a68b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a0b6eb0dc2ae8d5bb6ee7d916a943ab.pdf ed1dd17d86d116398872f25ae509733d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Iraq Interviewee: Joshua Karr Length of Interview: 01:02:30 Background                  He was born in 1979 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. His family grew up in Wyoming, but by the time he was born they lived in Marne, where he grew up. His dad is a Master Electrician. His mom worked at the Post Office. He started high school at Kenowa, but his parents decided to home school him for the last three years of his high school. He finished school in 1998. After school, he went out and got himself a couple jobs. He was a cook at 2 or 3 different restaurants in the following 3 or 4 years. When the 9/11 attacks happened he was actually sleeping. He had an apartment with his brother, who had woken him up to watch the T.V. At first he didn’t know why he got up to see a plane hit a building, but then he saw the second one get hit. And then someone hit the pentagon, and he knew it was war. He would speak to his recruiter 2 months later and months after that he was in boot camp. He had considered joining the military before. When he was 18, he spoke to a recruiter, but decided that it wasn’t for him at the time. He had checked in with the Navy when he was 18 because they had sent him some junk mail saying that his test scores had qualified him for the nuclear program. When he did decide to sign up for the military, he just decided it was his turn to go to war. He figured that every generation has to serve and it was his turn. His dad was the only man from his immediate family who did not go into the military. He was going to but his wife said that he couldn’t because he had kids. Two of his brothers were Navy; one of them was a lifer. He had another brother who was a Marine. After he decided to join, he had to go through some pre-screening at the recruiter’s office. They checked for height and weight requirements, criminal record and other basic things. There would be further criminal screening and ongoing physical tests after that. He would go to boot camp at Great Lakes, in Chicago. Great Lakes (4:30)    When he got there, it was the only Navy basic training camp left. They wanted to centralize because they felt too spread out having three different locations. There were about 10 groups of 80 men each who would be graduating every Friday. The training that he got was 8-10 weeks long. �                        The men in his group were from all over the country, a couple from a different part of the world. They were mostly between 18 and 20. One guy was 17½ because his parents signed a release to get him in early. He doesn’t think there was anyone in his division who was older than he was. They were close enough in age that they didn’t feel so different from each other. The basic training program didn’t allow anyone to feel differently from one another either. During his training he would have some classroom time, but it was difficult to stay awake during that because they also had a sleep deprivation program as well. No one would sleep more than 3 hours on any given night all through basic training. There was a lot of physical training. He remembers a lot of marching, but they didn’t run. He said that they were made to run everywhere in summer, but he was there in winter. Some of the guys who were below average had to run everywhere anyway. Because of the training style, he would still have to run every day in boot camp. The main emphasis of the camp was discipline and order. They wanted the men there to learn the nautical terms, learn how to wear uniforms, etc. but the main thing they had to learn was to shut up and follow orders. Adjusting to the lifestyle varied among the men of his group. Some of them would never figure it out. They actually have a reverse training transfer to keep you in boot camp indefinitely. One guy was there for 9 months and petitioned to get a promotion. You were supposed to be promoted to E2 after 9 months. Some guys there lived for it and it was much easier for them. One of the drill instructors he had who was kind of scary. He would not speak until it was time to discipline someone. Another one threw a lot of tantrums and was more lively than frightening. There was one who was just like one of the guys. He figured that was just the way things worked out, to have different kinds of drill instructors. In retrospect, he thinks it may have been that way on purpose to keep things balanced. Once he is done with boot camp, he went to Machinist School, which was also in Great Lakes. (8:34) He had to wait 3 days to have the bus take them basically across the street. This training was more academic. There was probably 15-20 guys to a class. It was the basics of mechanical works, including what things were called to how they worked. He would get a little bit of everything from electrical to plumbing. All the instructors were military Machinist Mates, except for one of his classes was an engineer. All of them were NCO’s mostly E6’s, a couple were E5’s. There were different phases of liberty. The one he was in allowed him to roam freely, but he had to be in his uniform if he was coming or going from base. There was not much to do around there, mostly he and his friends would take the train up and down the Lake Michigan coast and hit different cities along the way. Kenosha was probably where they spent the most time. �  After this portion of his training was done, he got 2 weeks of home leave to go see his family before shipping out. He would go to San Diego, where he served aboard the USS Constellation for about a year. Active Duty (11:45) The Pacific                 The “Conny” was a huge aircraft carrier, about three football fields long on top. It was tall, about 8 decks and 11 levels. It took about 3,000 men to actually run the boat and another 2-3,000 to man the aircraft on there. The enlisted men slept in rooms filled with racks. He measured his once, it was 1½ x 2 x 6 feet long. 18 cubic feet was pretty standard for each person. If you were taller than that your feet get crunched up and you don’t sleep as well as some of the smaller guys. There were two main mess decks for food. You basically stood in line until you got your food. Standing in line was probably one of the most important parts of his training, at least he thinks. He had never actually seen the ocean before he joined the Navy. When they had first gone out to sea, he had expected there to be some sort of sea sickness but there wasn’t. The carrier was just too big to be unbalanced. He could feel them go under way, but there was no rocking of any sort. He was in the fire room side of the main space, which made him a boiler operator. Since he was brand new, he was a messenger. He went around and took readings of the equipment and reported them to the guy who was actually supposed to take the readings so he could sign the log. He would run to whatever shop he needed to visit because that’s what messengers did. He did that for about 7 months. There was always something new happening, so it was never too boring. They had really pushed for different hours of guard time. At first it was 6 hours of guard time and 6 hours of down time. Most of them spent their down time sleeping because it was so hot. Eventually they got down to 4 and 8 and he managed to qualify for an upper level man. This job was a lot more interesting than his last one because he got to control the valves that controlled the boiler feed water. The boiler was a 1200 PI Foster boiler, which burned diesel fuel. The keel was laid in 1968 and the boilers were original equipment. It took a lot to keep them maintained. Almost every time they shut it down there was something they had to fix. The control systems were newer. The original watch team would have needed 50 men to operate it. They were down to about 12 men. So having about 5,000 men on the ship was more efficient than they were before. This allowed for more airplanes to be on the ship. �                       When he was based in San Diego, they were never in port there for more than a couple of weeks. They were getting ready to deploy so they were out at sea a lot testing equipment. Most of the little trials they did lasted anywhere from 1-3 weeks, but some of them went longer. At some point, they did circles around Hawaii. They would also go through the China Sea. They would stop by Hong Kong and Singapore. They would also go into the Persian Gulf. But when they got him to the base, he had to go home. So when they got to the base, they got him on a plane and finished going around the world from there back to Grand Rapids. He would fly back from Grand Rapids and got back on the ship when the war was officially declared in Iraq. They all knew it was time for the war and the only reason that they watched the news was to find out if they had declared war yet. While they were headed across the Pacific and into the Gulf, they mostly worked and slept. There were a lot of jokes going on to try and keep the place lively. Mostly they just worked and slept. When they flew him out they used both military and civilian airplanes. He was not in uniform because they were so close to war. Once they found out the war was official, everyone was very happy. They had kept the boat going, but it was pointless. All they did was drive it around in circles. Now, they had what they finally signed up to do. (22:10) Watching the news didn’t really help anyway, because they did not know what was really going on. They didn’t see the things that he saw. One time he saw a goat floating in the water, dead and bloated. Mostly though, he saw valves and gauges. There were ships all over when they got to the Arabian Sea. He saw ships from Canada, Australia, Britain, and many more from all over. They did manage to get into port at Bahrein and when they got there, they were told that there was a curse that if you did not go and see the tree of life, which was a tree growing out in the desert, that you were doomed to go back 7 times. He’s been there 6 times and has never seen the tree. He spent about 4 months in that tour in the Gulf. From there they would go to Australia. By the time they had arrived there, they would be the third aircraft carrier to dock. They would land in Perth. The Australian people were happy that the soldiers were there to help boost their economy, but they were kind of sick of soldiers by the time that his ship arrived there. During his time at sea, he would get a chance to go on land and visit at the places his ship stopped. As a junior enlisted, his liberty time was around 8 or 9 when the sun when down before he had to be back aboard the ship. In the friendlier countries, he was allowed to stay out all night. So when he got to Australia, he got off the ship and got a hotel room. He slept for about 18 hours because there was nothing there to wake him up. �         In Hong Kong, the civilians did not really notice them. He and his buddy got lost and tried to get directions from this older white man, but he didn’t understand them. His buddy would also lose his ATM card while in Hong Kong as well. He put it in an ATM machine and he didn’t know if it was because you were supposed to put the numbers in a different order or what, but they heard the shredder going in the machine and he lost his card. They finally found an office building and walked in. He felt like he had asked it 100 times, “Does anybody here speak English?” and this little guy popped up and was very excited, saying that he spoke English. He was very happy to help them out. After they left Australia, they reported into Hawaii, Pear Harbor, and stayed there for a couple of days. It was fun. He remembers a couple of older guys talking about the exchange rate there, but he didn’t believe them. Turns out you did have to exchange. It was very expensive as almost everything was twice as much as the dollar bills that they had. From there they went back to San Diego. They would decommission the Constellation when they got back. The crew would spend a lot of time gutting the ship and trying to put it back in its original condition. They were not going to scrap it, but they were basically mothballing it. This would take a couple of months. He stayed on the ship as long as he would let him. He did not want to stay in a barracks. The Atlantic (29:00)           When they were done with the ship, they could decide what they wanted to do next. While he was on the phone with his detailer, someone told him to go to Air Conditioning and Refrigeration School. So he did. And from there he would head to the east coast. He would go to Air Conditioning and Refrigeration School, around the Norfolk area for about 10 weeks. That was mostly classroom education with a little bit of laboratory. They knew that there was no point in really giving them a lot of hands-on experience because he would either be put on a new boat, which wouldn’t really need maintenance, or he would be put on an older one, where he would learn on the job. When he was in Port, it was mostly like a 9-5 job, but it was 6-4, so he got a lot of time off. The people there didn’t have a lot of opinion on the military as they were so used to it being right there in town. It wasn’t like a small town where there was a lot of support for soldiers, but they did not hate them either. He would be assigned to the USS Enterprise. It would be around the same time as the Constellation, so a bit older. This ship would be nuclear powered. He had to operate and maintain huge air conditioning units on the ship. One of them weighed 300 tons! He would also have to maintain refrigeration units as well, weighing about 5 tons. He would also have to maintain all of the peripheral units as well, like the ice makers and the water pipes. �                     It was a lot of work keeping them maintained because it was all old equipment. They had plenty of men to keep things running. There was more work sometimes more than others, but they had a pretty good maintenance system. However, some things just can’t be prevented. The nastiest job he had as a repairman was when he had to climb into the mud drum on the Constellation. It was gross. On both of the ships he had to work in the bilge. There are a lot of leaks and it is really gross down there. His work ranges from repairing pipes to replacing motors, to getting them repainted. When he finished the schooling, he would have to fly out to meet the Enterprise, which had already gone out to sea. After landing near a port, they took a private ex-military ship out to the Enterprise. When they got close enough they took a Puma to the carrier. When they got there, there was an induct orientation. They had a two-week course that went over everything. They covered racial sensitivity to where places are located on the ship. About 10% of the crew was female and they had all the same jobs as the men did. The atmosphere on the ship was uniform based. It didn’t matter your color or your gender, it depended on what uniform you wore. (39:30) Khaki enlisted are E7-E9, there are kind of elite and a group all of their own. Their job is mostly paperwork and office work. They didn’t really do anything anymore. To get to E7 was around 15 years, so many of these are career people. Most of them stayed in about 30 years. When there was time off you could go to the movie. He went to a bar in downtown Norfolk. When you are at sea, there was closed circuit T.V. on board. Sometimes, Hollywood stars would come on their ships and promote their movies. They would get to watch them before anybody else. Ben Affleck came out with his movie Paycheck. The movie was awful. Drew Carey came out once, some baseball player as well. Sometimes they would get time to use the email or the phone. The phone was almost impossible to get through, but the emailing was a little more convenient. There times when they shut down the computers so no one could use them. When they turn them back on, there was usually a line of people waiting to use them. He likes the snail mail, aka the postal service mail. Part of it was because his mom worked for the post office. Another thing was because it would almost a guarantee that you would get something. There would be times when some would accidentally get knocked overboard and your care packages were not always in good condition. He wrote home a lot. When he say something was really neat to him he would write home. He doesn’t know about mail, but all electronic communication is subject to monitoring and termination if necessary. When he was on the Enterprise they went to the Persian Gulf. There was a port there near Dubai where they would get off and look around. They called it “the sandbox”. It �                  was just a piece of land the military bought or borrowed or something and built a huge wall around it. Sometimes if it was safe enough they could take a cab out to Dubai. He was over there on the Enterprise from 2004-2006. They would travel to a couple of different places in that time. They once went to England and it happened to be the 4th of July. That was a really bad idea. There were a lot of fights and they ran out of handcuffs so a security officer had to come back and grab a bunch of zip-ties. A lot of the fights started in pubs and the Americans would celebrate and the British would not really care about it. When they got back under way he did get to talk to some of the guys who were in the fights. The fights were mostly American Pride vs. the British Pride. He would also go through the Suez Canal, but he didn’t go topside. Instead he had to watch a machine that wasn’t running. He thought it was really stupid. But some of the guys who were topside said if they had rock they could throw to one side and hit Africa and throw to the other side to hit Europe. Egypt had a bunch of tanks parked up on the ridge there in case any of the passing ships started something. (50:00) He remembers when they went to Seattle. It took about 3 weeks to get there, mostly because Navy ships don’t travel in straight lines. But he remembers pulling into the port and he smelled the pine trees and he just wanted off the ship. He wanted trees instead of people. You get tired of people eventually when on a ship. He would mostly hang out with the guys he worked with. When he was in Norfolk he kept to himself. When his time was up, he considered staying on, but he really didn’t want it. Advancement exams were part of it. He would advance quickly at first, but eventually he got passed over for E5 promotion. So when it was time for him to get out they tempted him with E5 promotion, but he felt they had missed their chance for that. He felt that he served his time. He had no idea what he wanted to do when he got back. He had GI bill eligibility and he thought he would go to school eventually, but what he really wanted was to relax and get some “any Joe” job, which he did. He would work at a liquor store for a while. He loved it, but he didn’t know why. January of 2006 was when he went out. Post Duty (54:55)    When he got out, he was actually home, on terminal leave. He kind of had mixed feelings about that because he was still in, but he wasn’t. It was just weird. He would go to college as Grand Rapids Community College. With an Associates Degree, he thought he would have a higher paid job. �           He thought the experience he got on the ship would help him get a job, but that didn’t help either. When he met with the heating and cooling guys, they didn’t want to retrain him from what he saw on the ship to what he would see in homes. From his experience in the Navy, he would always remember going around the world twice. Even before he learned to drive. He also got to serve his country in a time of need. He also feels that he has some pretty awesome bragging rights for where he’s been and what he’s done. One time, he looked up the word veteran in the dictionary, just to see what it said, and it is synonymous with the word “old”. So he feels old. He thinks everyone should do it. In fact, if everyone did join, then they could probably shorten the enlistment time from 4 years to 2 years. Mostly though, he thinks that if everyone served, this country would be a bit stronger. When they were on the Enterprise, they found videos on the ship. They don’t know who made them or when, but they watched them. One was about a man who found a bra on the ship and took it to the incinerator room and burned it. He thought it was a pretty funny movie. He would see some of the natives in Bahrein were burning the US flag. It was a little unsettling. There was also a time where he heard a man shouting a prayer and they didn’t know what to do. It was strange. Before he got off at any of the places, he had to learn about some of the things that you did or did not do when at that specific city. For example, giving an Arab the “thumbs up” is like giving us the middle finger. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KarrJ Title A name given to the resource Karr, Joshua (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Karr, Joshua Description An account of the resource Joshua Karr served in the US Navy from 2002-2006, during the war with Iraq. The first half of his enlistment would be spent in the Pacific on the USS Constellation, which was sent to the Persian Gulf when the Iraq War started. He worked primarily in the engine room. When the Constellation was decommissioned, he transferred to the Enterprise, which was based at Norfolk and cruised in the Atlantic. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-01-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff1dd8144d8bf222af7ad32944849983.jpg e1a64358e9a00fd2f8ee41a2e97a60f8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS2927 .K38 1902 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0262 Title A name given to the resource Kate Bonnet Description An account of the resource Binding of Kate Bonnet, by Frank R. Stockton, published by D. Appleton and Company, 1902. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1902 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c323b5adb932e6a27873d0ab898363ad.pdf a2ff3b0d3b2816960243bdcd60bda131 PDF Text Text GRAND VALLEY STATE UNWERSITY WOMEN'S STUDIES PROGRAM Presents KATE MILLETT "Women and the Future" Wednesday, April 1, 1992 7:00 p.m. Room 215, L.V. Eberhard Center Public Invited Classes are encouraged to attend this informative lecture � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Sexuality and Gender Flyers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Rainbow Resource Center Women and Gender Studies Department Women's Commission Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity Description An account of the resource Digitized posters, flyers, event notices, and other materials relating to gender expression and sexuality at Grand Valley State University, with materials spanning from 1974 to 2019. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1974/2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digitized from collections at the Rainbow Resource Center (formerly the Milton E. Ford LGBT Resource Center), Women and Gender Studies Department, Women's Commission, and Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Gender identity Gender expression Sexual orientation Women's studies Queer theory Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09_SGF_WGS_1992_InvitedSpeaker_KateMillett_Flyer.pdf Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Women's Studies Program Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1992-04-01 Title A name given to the resource Kate Millet: "Women and the Future" Description An account of the resource Text based flyer of the talk by Kate Millett location, time and date are included. Subject The topic of the resource Women's studies Lectures and lecturing Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Women, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Department Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2193091785e983d01a17bea2f8f084f9.mp4 4186df8ef95d9840fd4db56b6d257e63 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/27a11f382b1f1b8a7f471bdaceaa7dbc.pdf f60524a4c486fa4bd7525e0e579a145c PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos Interviewee: Kate Noone Date: 1984 [Barbara] All were doing now is just like a little test recording. But I want to ask you why you chose James? [Noone] I went to William James because of the people that were there and the type of education that was available to me, for me, at James. I didn't come to Grand Valley to go to James. I came to Grand Rapids and ended up at Grand Valley to finish my education and wasn't aware that James was there until a couple semesters at CAS and heard about James, met some people at James, and decided to go over there and check out classes there. What was nice about James is it wasn't a type of situation where you sat and listen to someone talk, and you sat still and you sat quiet, and you were obedient and sat there and listened to them, and then it was two weeks later you spit out what they said on a piece of paper called the test and then you somehow got graded for that performance. I was real dissatisfied with that kind of education. I never did it very well either. It was a difficult thing for me to do. When I was at James it felt a lot freer to do other things. [Barbara] Just continue from where you were. [Noone] Okay. The type of education at William James, for me, worked for me a whole lot better because of the different… yeah, there was a lot of opportunity to think and to think about what you were doing – what I was doing and James. In classrooms it was a matter of going in and listening to somebody speak and writing things down and kind of daydreaming, doodling on the paper. James, you couldn't get away with that. Couldn't get away with not participating. I think one of my first experience is that James was a class that I had and the teacher wanted us to read a book and read it by a certain day. I didn't read the book. I didn't think I had to; that was kind of education that I was used to having – where the teacher told you to do something, you really didn't do it, and just kind of went in, took the test, and always somehow did pretty well on it. But I didn't read and I came into the class real unprepared and it was real obvious and it felt real awkward. I felt like I was really missing out on something. It was like the first time that I think that I really understood what William James was about. Because I didn't read that, I didn't know what was going on – I wasn't learning, I wasn't being helpful to anyone else in the class, and I wasn't being helpful to myself at all. And that really had a big impact on me. I thought about that a lot and I thought about how that all worked and what was different at William James and that was what �prompted me to take classes there and to be involved at James. [Barbara] That's great, I think we got this all… [Inaudible]. [Noone] Okay. What did you ask me? [Barbara] The incident that we care about is… you didn't do the reading. [Noone] Right. The first time that I really learned what William James was about was I was in the class and I was supposed to read a book by a certain day. I didn't read it. I never did – I never thought I had to. In traditional schools in my entire educational upbringing, it's like you didn't really have to do that kind of stuff. You just kind of went in and got a feel for what the teacher wanted, and you gave it to them, and you got a grade. I didn't read the book and I came to class, and I was real unprepared and it was real obvious to myself and other people in the class. And I felt like I was missing something – a lot. I felt like I was not getting… anything. I wasn't getting anything, and other people were getting a lot. And I think it was my first realization about education at William James and what that was about, and how that was different from my previous years of education. I felt awkward and I felt like I really needed to do something if I was going to get anything out of my education and learn anything, and I felt like I had a lot to learn and William James was there, and it had a lot to offer in terms of different kinds of things that I needed to learn at that time. [Barbara] If you had to summarize what the core of the philosophy at James – if you just had to name one thing, in a sentence or two – what was the most important thing? [Noone] James worked on the basis that you were solely responsible for your education and no one was going to do it for you. There were no “A’s” or “B’s” or any kind of grading system – that’s more than a sentence to say. To say there wasn't that “A” or “B” grade system, to say at the end of the semester: "This is what you've achieved." What you achieved at the end of the semester was to your knowledge, and what you worked for, and your paper and your, you know, what you worked on with your projects, your milestone. That's what you achieved and that was solely your responsibility. If you didn't do it nobody cared or that was your responsibility. And I think that had a real impact on me. That had a very, very strong impact on me. So, I think in terms of the goals of James, I think was to make people solely responsible for their education. That's not to say that you didn't do it with other people, and that you didn't work on it with other people, and that there weren't other people around to help. But you needed to find those people, you needed to talk to those people, and we need to find people that wanted to work with you on projects and whatnot, and I think that it didn't mean at all that you needed to do it by yourself. It was a nice community to work and �learn with people. [Barbara] This sounds like nirvana. Surely… don't start answering yet because I have to focus. [Noone] Okay. [Barbara] This makes it sound like nirvana, surely there were some faults. [Noone] I think, yeah, there were some faults. I think it took a while to get acclimated to what was expected and what it was that I wanted. I mean, it was suddenly this responsibility and that things felt pretty wide open, but it took me a while to figure out what it was that I really wanted. So, that was a little difficult. But I'm not sure that was a fault. I mean, it made me work and it made me think. It also made me use teachers in the way I’ve never used teachers before, like going in and saying: "What's going on here, and I didn't understand this, and what's this about." So, it made me use the teachers a lot more rather than going to the teaching and saying: "Well I wasn't in class today because I had a doctor's appointment," and you really weren't, but you just weren't there, you know. That kind of authoritarian kind of thing. It was not that type of relationship with teachers. So, in terms of what was a big disadvantage or for James' fault: it would’ve been nice to have maybe a little bit of a broader spectrum of classes. I think maybe some administrative things maybe weren't there that would've helped facilitate some things a little better. But I can't really think of anything else. [Barbara] Can I show you what we've done so far? [Noone] The film? [Barbara] Start tape. [Noone] Is it started? [Barbara] It's started. [Noone] What's not so good about… I think back at it now and it all looks just really wonderful. But I think if you would've interviewed me at the time when I was taking classes, I was incredibly frustrated. At times it was hard – there was a lot of things going on. It was just a difficult thing. Sometimes it was very frustrating… it was a very frustrating way to learn because there was a lot to be learned and there was a lot going on and you had to structure things yourself and make sure things got done to have you on timelines and stuff. It was real frustrating. [Noone] There were times I just was, you know, thinking that it might have been nice �sitting, doodling on a page, listening to some person – verbally, you know – talk up to a classroom. So, I think that there were some frustrating things about it, but I look back at it now and it just seems like wonderful. [Barbara] Why? [Noone] Why? [Barbara] Wait, wait, let me check the focus, okay. [Noone] Okay. I didn't like that. [Barbara] I thought you did it better before. Maybe we should do it again. [Noone] Okay. [Barbara] Let me focus. Focus, focus, focus. There she is. [Noone] Okay. Do you want me to do it again? [Barbara] Sure. [Noone] Okay. [Barbara] Anytime. [Noone] Okay, it's hard to think about… what was frustrating about my educational at William James. I know there were some things that weren't so wonderful at James and I think if you would've interviewed when I was taking classes at James there were lots of times I was real frustrated and I wanted some times for someone just to say: "You should know this, learn it and that's that” and it wasn't that simple. It was a frustrating way to learn, in some ways, but it stuck. And that's something that I can't really say about all previous education settings – that things didn't stick, it didn't integrate. I mean, it was a painful process sometimes and it was difficult, and I was coming out of class and feeling like your head was spinning a little bit and not sure what had taken place or, you know, trying to integrate it all. And I think that was very frustrating for me at times. But I look back at it now and it feels like it was just wonderful and I wish I was back at James and back taking classes. It was a nice community. I made a lot of contacts, you met a lot of people, there was always something to talk about. [Noone] And I think that [is important] … especially when you're at kind of a mainstream America – not going to school and working and kind of out in the real world. And that is something that's lacking, in terms of people coming together for a common �kind of principles and ethics and whatnot in terms of education and learning and knowledge. I think that's missing in a lot of my experiences in the real world. [Barbara] Do you feel that your education equipped you for employment? [Noone] Yeah, it did. It definitely equipped me for employment. I think what it did, though, was that it made me pretty selective and pretty knowledgeable about what kinds of work was okay and what kinds of work wasn't. And I think I didn't go into my field with blinders on, just knowing book knowledge. I came out knowing a whole lot of other things that were real helpful to me, in terms of my education. It helps me a lot. I was fortunate enough to get a job in my field – social work, social relations field – before I even finished school at an agency that hired William James students. It was full of a lot of William James students and it was full of a lot of people who thought real seriously about what they did and how they worked with clients and what that was about. And it wasn't anything that was ever taken for granted that you knew; it was always something that was in process. And that was very helpful to get hired into that agency. It was good and I think James helped me do that. I'm not sure I would have ever gotten a job at that agency had I not gone to James and sought those kinds of things out at James. I understood what the process was about, so that was nice. [Barbara] Good answer. Good, clear answer. Did your education equip you to get a job? [Noone] Yes, I was fortunate enough to be able to continue learning through work and the job that I got when I was pretty much finished with school. Social relations / social work is one of my majors – what I focused on school – and I got hired into an agency that hired and liked and sought out William James students because they understood what working with clients was about; they understood that it was a continual process; that you never, you know, knew and you can sit back and easy-chair and pretend like you know it all because you never do. It's a continuous process and I was fortunate enough to get hired into an agency and stayed there for quite a while. And it was nice; it was real good. It was being able to continue learning. And I think that's – in terms of my profession and in terms of my work – that’s what I want to do, is continue learning. So, I was fortunate to do that one life after William James… are you filming this now? Life after William James. How it's been difficult to integrate some into the general marketplace, in terms of my profession. [Noone] I have found it very frustrating. I feel like I was real sheltered in the agency that I worked in for four years. And I think learning the kinds of things that I've learned – the things that I feel that are incredibly valuable in terms of my profession – are pretty meaningless, in some ways, to other people and in the field. And I think that's been real frustrating. I wonder sometimes and William James was nice because it was a community to grow with and to learn with. And how do I fill �those needs now? What do I do about that? And I've done pretty well; I still have people around me that I’ve grown with and I learned with and I have that kind of contact and that kind of connection with and I hope I always will. And I think I will. But it was kind of nice William James provided those people. I went there and they were there. Now it's, again, taking responsibility and making sure that those people are in my life now. And they're not so accessible as they were when I was in college, and I hate to think it's because that kind of thought, and that kind of ethics, and those kinds of ways of thinking about process and whatnot, is becoming obsolete with maybe younger generations. Or just becoming more difficult to find people who think like that. But community was rich, and nice, and was good. [Barbara] You talk about the way we think and the ethics and stuff, but what do you mean? [Noone] In terms of social work, in terms of being at James – for me, my education was thinking a lot about how I was going to work with people and how effective I was going to be. And it wasn't anything I can read in a book and learn that that's what this is, you know, and have it integrate. It was not that simple. It was thinking about a lot, it was doing it a lot, it was having the experience doing it. It was whether that was role-playing or having interactions with, you know, fellow students or whatever that was. It wasn't just simply sitting down and reading it, it was doing it and I think in the workplace it's the same thing. You can't just take for granted that things are just going to come to you or that you automatically know things. Every situation is different and needs to be thought about. And there's a process going on with almost every situation that needs to be thought about and not taken just for granted. So, I think in terms of ethics and knowing things… that wasn't so clear was it? Sum it up? To kind of sum it up, James was good while I was there. I still feel like it was good for me. It taught me what I wanted and what I didn't want, in terms of my field and my profession. It taught me what was good and what wasn't good. That was, I think, a lot of what it did in terms of how it still feels for me now. Also taught me how to use other people real well. And that one… I think that's essential and that was good, too. [Barbara] Did it handicap you that you had two or three professors is all? [Noone] I think it would've been nicer. I mean, maybe that just comes from traditional schools – we have a whole lot of different professors you can pick and choose from. I was pleased with my professors. I think sometimes it would've been nice to have a little bit more of a variety of different professors and not have just two or three. But it would've been different to have more. I think sometimes it would've maybe been nicer to have a little bit more of a variety. [Barbara] We have just a little bit of tape. You guys go stand behind Kate, would you? And then we'll know what those little coughs and thing are. You can just-you can just �beat it. Okay, there's one. [Noone] There's one! There's Jamie. [Barbara] See if you can get on the other side. [Noone] There's Jamie. [Barbara] Okay. Poor Jimmy, move so I can see you. [Noone] Move so you can… there. Okay. There's Jamie. [Barbara] There's Jamie. Okay. Jessica why don't you come around on that side, too, because there's not enough light on that side and I want to be able to see your face really well, on the tape. There you go. Now you both show up. I'm going to run out of tape in a minute, but I want to get a shot of you now. [Laughter] [Noone] Do you have anything to say? Here's the microphone. [Jamie] Doot doot! [Jessica] Aww, thanks. Put it on me! [Noone] Put it on you, huh? [Barbara] We’re going to run out of tape in just a second. [Noone] It’s on you. So how was it being quiet for so long? [Jessica] I hated it. [Jamie] [Coughs on mic] [Jessica] Don't cough on it! � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_23_Noone Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Noone, Kate Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Kate Noone interview (video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Kate Noone by Barbara Roos, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Kate Noone was a student of William James College and a member of the class of 1981. In this interview, Kate discusses her personal journey that led her to William James College, its core philosophy, and how her education equipped her for future employment. This interview is part 1 of 1 for Kate Noone. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/add686c699114c6ef98ccbba77edfd71.jpg 31f9418031550d288d2c8cd00463c2bf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H225-0027 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-08-31 Title A name given to the resource Katharine Houghton for Glamour Magazine, NYC Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of American actress and playwright, Katharine Houghton, taken for Glamour magazine in New York City in 1967. In the photograph, Katharine is leaning against a brick pillar and framed by the greenery nearby. Houghton is most well-known for her role in the film, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," which was released later that year and starred Sidney Poitier, Spencer Tracy, and Houghton's real-life aunt, Katharine Hepburn. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Houghton, Katharine New York (N.Y.) Glamour photography Periodicals Guess who's coming to dinner (Motion picture) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3357d40400df277d78474174c333b127.jpg bece1955589bfcfa40dca2ffdc04d1de Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H226-0023 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-08-31 Title A name given to the resource Katharine Houghton for Glamour Magazine, NYC Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of American actress and playwright, Katharine Houghton, taken for Glamour magazine in New York City in 1967. In the photograph, Katharine is seated and reading a book while framed by the greenery in the background. Houghton is most well-known for her role in the film, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," which was released later that year and starred Sidney Poitier, Spencer Tracy, and Houghton's real-life aunt, Katharine Hepburn. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Houghton, Katharine New York (N.Y.) Glamour photography Periodicals Guess who's coming to dinner (Motion picture) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/28593f1d32533c861490458b45b3a4ca.jpg e13d09b6faff3e0d75c04bd6eeeb1368 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H228-0036a Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-08-31 Title A name given to the resource Katharine Houghton for Glamour Magazine, NYC Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of American actress and playwright, Katharine Houghton, taken for Glamour magazine in New York City in 1967. The photograph is a close-up glamour shot of Houghton taken in the daylight. Houghton is most well-known for her role in the film, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," which was released later that year and starred Sidney Poitier, Spencer Tracy, and Houghton's real-life aunt, Katharine Hepburn. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Houghton, Katharine New York (N.Y.) Glamour photography Periodicals Guess who's coming to dinner (Motion picture) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/137bbf6112b861ef68e07ac6047e0990.jpg 37bf17b4110629a27a09f4084ac364d6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H229-0015 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-08-31 Title A name given to the resource Katharine Houghton for Glamour Magazine, NYC Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of American actress and playwright, Katharine Houghton, taken for Glamour magazine in New York City in 1967. In the photograph, Katharine is leaning against a pillar while standing with her hands on her hips and looking toward the camera. Houghton is most well-known for her role in the film, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," which was released later that year and starred Sidney Poitier, Spencer Tracy, and Houghton's real-life aunt, Katharine Hepburn. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Houghton, Katharine New York (N.Y.) Glamour photography Periodicals Guess who's coming to dinner (Motion picture) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ad40f69d611218d8f9f09d0af4975b9.jpg 3a014816fabb4265260ef694392e9c9d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H229-0025 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-08-31 Title A name given to the resource Katharine Houghton for Glamour Magazine, NYC Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of American actress and playwright, Katharine Houghton, taken for Glamour magazine in New York City in 1967. The photograph is a close-up glamour shot of Houghton taken in the daylight and framed by the greenery in the background. Houghton is most well-known for her role in the film, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," which was released later that year and starred Sidney Poitier, Spencer Tracy, and Houghton's real-life aunt, Katharine Hepburn. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Houghton, Katharine New York (N.Y.) Glamour photography Periodicals Guess who's coming to dinner (Motion picture) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/38adad31cf4358b00293c4377635ca26.jpg 512516cac43cc3c237cfbf42a9dcbcd3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H230-0028 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-08-31 Title A name given to the resource Katharine Houghton for Glamour Magazine, NYC Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of American actress and playwright, Katharine Houghton, taken for Glamour magazine in New York City in 1967. The photograph is a close-up glamour shot of Houghton taken in the daylight and framed by the greenery in the background. Houghton is most well-known for her role in the film, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," which was released later that year and starred Sidney Poitier, Spencer Tracy, and Houghton's real-life aunt, Katharine Hepburn. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Houghton, Katharine New York (N.Y.) Glamour photography Periodicals Guess who's coming to dinner (Motion picture) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1276c4630d81314ccbb164345bbb17c6.pdf 8b39937dd57282e284d39df99ab41147 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project David Katona War in Afghanistan 8 minutes 24 seconds (00:00:04) Early Life -Born in 1989 -Has two older sisters -Mother worked as a nurse -Father worked as a veterinarian -In high school prior to enlisting (00:00:42) Enlisting in the Marines & Training -Father had served in the military -He was in fifth grade when the September 11th Attacks happened -Wanted to do something to help fight back -17 years old when he talked to a Marine recruiter -Trained for a year in Michigan before starting training on the delayed-entry program -Chose the Marines because he wanted to be the “best of the best” -In retrospect, basic training was fun -At the time it was shocking and totally unexpected -Had to learn how to do everything the proper, Marines way -Right down to tying his shoes -Had a pretty easy time adjusting to the Marines (00:02:34) Serving in Afghanistan -Did a tour in Afghanistan from 2008 to 2009 -Stationed in Helmand Province, Afghanistan at a base 30 miles from the Pakistani border -Relieved another American unit at the base -Within the first two weeks of being there they made contact with enemy troops -By the end of the fight the enemy had been pushed out of the area -Afghan civilians were normal people -Just uninformed and primitive people -Formed long term friendships with Marines on his deployment -Especially the Marines in his squad (00:04:22) Contact with Home -For the first two months in Afghanistan the only way he could call home was with a satellite phone -Eventually had a communications tent set up at his base -Had computers, phones, and an internet connection -Allowed a half hour of internet time every day (00:04:47) End of Service -He was out of the Marines by the time U.S. involvement in Afghanistan ended -Had gotten discharged due to the military being downsized (00:05:09) Life after Service -Had an alright time readjusting to civilian life -Most days have been alright -Family greeted him in North Carolina when he came home -Threw him a party at a local hotel and bought him a nice dinner -Not a member of any veterans' organizations, but he still gets together with friends from the Marines �(00:06:29) Reflections on Service -Matured quickly in the Marines -Only 18 years old when he first saw combat -The kind of perspective he wouldn't have gotten elsewhere -Biggest lesson he learned in Afghanistan was to keep his head down (00:07:15) Miscellaneous Details -Had a deployment in Afghanistan and a Sea Service deployment -Note: Means that he served aboard a ship -Attained the rank of E4 (corporal) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_KatonaD1846V Title A name given to the resource Katona, David Ferenc (Interview outline), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-02-15 Description An account of the resource David Katona was born in 1989. When he was 17 years old he enlisted in the Marines and when he turned 18 he reported for basic training. He did a tour in Afghanistan from 2008 to 2009 and was stationed in the Helmand Province of Afghanistan at a base 30 miles from the Pakistani border. During his time in Afghanistan he carried out patrols and engaged enemy forces in the area. After the tour in Afghanistan he returned to the United States at North Carolina and was discharged sometime after that and before U.S. involvement in Afghanistan ended in 2014. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katona, David Ferenc Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Maier, Courtney (Interviewer) Bredeweg, Mackenzi (Interviewer) Cheeks, Jada (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/512bcfdb21c67d8fd8810c0d1c8c6323.mp4 551c462bad506db3d1c3e199cb2664b7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3772e98ceb369a536a81201c3a4ebcf.pdf 6d64bd252e14aba12a861fcc4c5234d2 PDF Text Text August Katsma (1:00:45) (00:01) Background Information • August was born on November 11, 1917 in Grand Rapids, Michigan • His father worked in the furniture business • He left school in 1934 to work • August worked in a plating room, in construction, and at a metal office furniture manufacturer • In 1937 he joined the National Guard and was put into the 126th infantry • He played for the band in the National Guard • In the 126th infantry he was assigned to be a medic • He got married and then he was drafted after Pearl Harbor was attacked • August was working when he heard about Pearl Harbor being attacked and was concerned about what was going on overseas before the attack • On April 22, 1941 he was drafted (11:12) Training • He was sent to Fort Custer and then to Fort Riley in Kansas for Military Police training • August was taught how to do police work for about three months • He had basic training at the same time as his MP training • Next he was sent to Fort Meyer, Virginia where the officers were very strict • They had to put on full gear and march for 40 miles • His job was to do guard duty and he remained there until late 1941 • He was then sent to Boeing Field and put on the plotting board • August was part of the coastal artillery unit as a private • He was sent to a special service camp in North Carolina to be in their band and orchestra • They put on shows for the servicemen and raised money for the war �• He was also in charge of the recreation hall • August was reassigned to Camp Sibert, Alabama to Grey’s Registration Unit (28:52) Deployment • On his way to the Philippines they stopped at Pearl Harbor and August had one day leave to go on the island • After they left for Manila, the end of the war was announced • August worked in the morgue and had to document the dead • There were thousands of dead people that could not be identified • They left Manila on February 6, 1946 (36:35) Before Leaving for the Philippines • August was sent to Camp Buckner, North Carolina • He played big band music for the officers until very late at night with no extra pay • Most of the officers did not treat him well while he was in the service • August received 20 days leave when his wife was giving birth • He went into Washington DC twice; • once on leave and once during a storm because he had to direct traffic (45:06) Discharge • From Manila August went back to Hawaii on a steamer and then to San Diego • They took a train to Fort Sheridan and the whole time the Army didn’t want anyone to see the soldiers for a unknown reason • When they got to Fort Sheridan the Army tried to get them to re-enlist, but August was not interested • After his discharge he got on a bus and went home • He worked at GM and then went into trucking • August worked at Associated Trucking for 27.5 years • He lost respect for the Army because of the way he was treated � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KatsmaA Title A name given to the resource Katsma, August (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katsma, August Description An account of the resource August Katsma was born on November 11, 1917 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1937 he joined the National Guard as a medic in the 126th infantry. After the National Guard he got married and then was drafted into the Army. August trained as an MP and was in the Army's band. He was sent to North Carolina to a special service camp as a band member to raise money and play for the servicemen. Next he was sent to Camp Sibert, Alabama to Grey's Registration Unit and then Deployed to Manila in the Philippines. In Manila he worked at the morgue where he documented casualties of the war. August was sent back to the United states in February, 1946 and discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives