447 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aefaf8c9f35aab961e632c2b8e8820d5.pdf b50cb6e94e8cf121474d54a16fa70a58 PDF Text Text April 15, 2020 Another day has come and gone. I’ve been able to make some much needed edits to my final paper for my capstone course. However, in the process I’ve discovered that there is an issue that I have not addressed. What this means is that I have plenty of work ahead of me. However, the paper in its entirety is more or less coming together nicely. Today I did the unthinkable again and we visited my sister for my nephew’s birthday. I still feel guilty about it, but it’s not stopping me. I guess you could say it’s a guilty pleasure. The kids had a great time with their cousins. We had some posole for dinner, and Isaac ate some really awesome cake that my sister made. We went outside to play for a while too. The kids were cold so we had to bust out the winter clothing that we thought we wouldn’t need anymore. We were definitely wrong about that one. Not much to talk about today. I still have lots of things to do but there never seems to be enough time anymore. On the bright side, lots of people including myself received their “Stimulus Check Today”. Many are happy as it will allow them to pay their bills. Some are more or less waiting until the pandemic passes and they can go out to spend it. Me? I’m definitely saving it for unforeseen costs related to moving cross country to attend the University of New Mexico. I did also get to talk to Page, she’s a cool friend. We agreed that once a week we would video call and do some math together. We will most likely be looking at “An Analysis Sketchbook”, it is a text that was written by Dr. Hodge, one of the professors at GVSU. I’m kind of excited about this, we are starting next week on Thursday. I hope she doesn’t back out as this would be a good opportunity to do some studying in Analysis. I haven’t been watching netflix and other streaming services as much as my friends. However, I did start watching Boruto with Nikita today. I also started rewatching Dragon Ball Z en italiano, in an attempt to learn some italian. It’s very similar to spanish phonetically. This aspect combined with the fact that I’ve already watched all of Dragon Ball Z allowed me to decipher some of the words in Italiano that I didn’t know. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-15_GarciaJ Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Garcia, José Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-15 Title A name given to the resource José Garcia COVID-19 Journal 8 Description An account of the resource Journal entry of GVSU student José Garcia relating his experiences as a student and parent during the COVID-19 pandemic. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bf62eb8ed73a406340bfe340bba6c5c7.pdf 7d69d76637459d5c0581c9d7ab9d4fb5 PDF Text Text April 17, 2020 Yesterday I didn’t write either. Oh well, I can’t seem to be able to keep a consistent schedule. At least I’m not as stressed out as I have been. Yesterday I got an email from David about an avenue of research to tackle. I did a little work on that, but not too much. I have a problem that I can try to tackle and I’m ready to try it. However today I decided not to do it, or really much work besides meeting with my MTH 305 final project team. We went over what we had and I was able to finish the code part of the project. This would allow Mike to generate any charts we would need for the paper write up. Once this project is done with, and I write the peer evaluation form, that would complete all the requirements for mth 305. That would leave me with just my edited version of my paper for my capstone. Will sent me edit suggestions yesterday, but I have not looked at them in detail. I will probably look at that tomorrow. It was a really interesting result, however It would have been nice to have solved the problem I was looking at on the hyperbolic plane. I’m graduating soon, and it feels great! There has been so much work that has been put towards this and here I am. I won an award from the math department. I’m supposed to get it in the mail soon, and at some point also get a book in the mail as well. So that’s cool, no ceremony though. The same for my McNair Scholars graduation, nothing celebration. It is very much unfortunate! The office asked for our mail addresses today, I’m guessing they will be mailing the awards and medallions as well. To top it all off, we recently received an email telling graduating students when the graduation ceremony will be. It’s scheduled for October! Seriously!? I’ll be in New Mexico by then! We were also told that if we could not make it to the october graduation, that we could attend the normally scheduled December Graduation which i suppose would be doable, but still! The point is that I would have to travel from New Mexico to Grand Rapids just so I can attend my Graduation. There’s so many things to be upset about but I have to admit there are plenty of good things going on right now. I’ve been practicing my programming and even signed myself for a coding competition tomorrow. I believe it lasts 3 hours. So that should be fun! Maybe, haha I have no formal CIS training. So I’ve been learning about data structures on the go. I tried some practice problems. I was able to get one problem pretty easily once I figured out how input from stdin works with python. The second one was very challenging for me to solve, and I never actually figured out the optimal way to do so. But I did figure out the brute force way to do it, so that was cool. I didn’t get a chance to try a 3rd problem as I had so many other things going on as well with school that it didn’t feel productive. On a random note, I bought a really cool fountain pen that writes like a dream. I can’t stop using it. It just glides over your paper. It is so easy to write with and the ink looks great too! I had Nikita try it, and she loved it, so I bought her one too, it should be in the mail by next week. She will have her finals and then, hopefully… She can start her internship at grcc, which will be paid. I really hope it does not get cancelled, but the way it’s seeming now, it should run even if it starts later in the summer. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-17_GarciaJ Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Garcia, José Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-17 Title A name given to the resource José Garcia COVID-19 Journal 9 Description An account of the resource Journal entry of GVSU student José Garcia relating his experiences as a student and parent during the COVID-19 pandemic. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a439aced87ed7185d2660dff223507f2.pdf 9675f36ea32682280c9efbd63811f95e PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Interviewee: Jose Jimenez Interviewers: Timothy Robertson, Ashlie Hood and Angelica Perez Supervising Faculty: Melanie Shell-Weiss Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 2/24/2012 Biography and Description Jose Jimenez was born in Caguas, Puerto Rico and lived in Chicago. He discusses his experiences as the leader of the Young Lords and an activist for Latin Americans. Transcript JIMENEZ: So the name of the class is what? HOOD: US diversity, diversity in the US JIMENEZ: Oh diversity, ok ROBERTSON: So we will essentially be conducting an oral history which I’m sure you have way more with experience than we do JIMENEZ: No I don’t have any experience this is my first time that I’m doing the history, the oral history ROBERTSON: Oh nice, right on JIMENEZ: Yeah I don’t have any experience ROBERTSON: Then it will be a new experience for the both of us; essentially we will be running through basic history about you JIMENEZ: Ok ROBERTSON: Integrating a few points of what kind of built you personally and then like your opinion of home JIMENEZ: Ok where do you want to start, what’s your name again? HOOD: Ashlie JIMENEZ: Ashlie? Ok I’m José, ok ROBERTSON: To start actually if we can get some basic information about you Page 1 �JIMENEZ: You do have a lot of questions? Or is that ROBERTSON: Well these are… JIMENEZ: Background stuff ROBERTSON: Yeah, they JIMENEZ: Ok ROBERTSON: Just some basic questions JIMENEZ: (laughing) ROBERTSON: We kind of developed our own from this so JIMENEZ: Ok so you want some basic personal questions first or ROBERTSON: Yup. Yeah the first, if you could introduce yourself JIMENEZ: Ok, I’m José Jimenez, the nickname I’ve had for most of my life is cha cha, C-H-A C-H-A (spelling out cha cha) and I got that, it was more like a people in the neighborhoods usually get nicknames in a negative way so they were kind of little racial in nature because this guy used to call another black person sambo and he called me a cha cha cha, and so as more, I was just a little kid, but as more Latinos came into the neighborhood. I, I kind of liked the name cha cha so I just kept it, some people get called frog face or whatever, (Ha-ha) I just kind of liked the name cha cha ROBERTSON: If you could tell us date of birth and location JIMENEZ: Ok, I was born in Caguas, Puerto Rico. My family is from the country but of course I was born in the city, in the town because my older sister had died and my mother was worried because there was no medical treatment in the country so she moved to the town of Caguas but us when I went back to Puerto Rico when I was fifteen years old, all I knew was the country. I came straight from Chicago back to the country there. It was actually a good experience because I spent a lot of time with my grandfather, Egragrorio Jimenez, and I mean I had to use the two bulls to turn ground and… ROBERTSON: Oh wow JIMENEZ: And coming from Chicago there was real whole awakening for me. The whole country, the whole culture, the music of the people that they had there so I was able to catch a lot to really appreciate the country life of Puerto Rico there ROBERTSON: Kind of to bounce off that, what kind of ancestry did you have? JIMENEZ: I had, well my great grandfather and my great grandfather, they’re all Puerto Rican so. On my mother’s side there’s a lady that comes directly from Spain but basically we’ve been Puerto Ricans for generations. We came when I was two years old, my father did not own his own property, he did not own his own farm so he worked on other peoples farms. At the time they called them agregaros, so Page 2 �aggregated or connected because they were able to get some space for their house in somebody else’s land and that’s how you make a living, you work for the farmer and so there was a large farmer named Jimenez which is my last name and he worked for him, a lot of people worked for him at that time. Later on my grandfather was able to purchase a lot a large a lot where his sons and daughters were able to work because there were about 13 or 14 of them, brothers and sisters so siblings. So they were able each of them to have their own section, and so things improved later, after this large land owner Jimenez left the area. Ah, well that was just the way of life. People were not angry with him, it wasn’t like slavery or anything like that it’s just that he had money and he was able to provide for other people at that time, it was his business. from my father, because he worked at the farm it was easy for him to, when the united states was having trouble with Mexican workers because of their documentation and their papers and that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the united states so the united states, the US companies went to Puerto Rico to bring Puerto Ricans here to work in the fields, so my father came and he worked by concord Massachusetts when there was still farm land at that time and he did that since 1945-46 and then he moved up and they let him drive a tractor because he spoke a little English and so he went back and brought other people to, to near Boston to the Andy voy farms. Andy voy farms were connected, they were the farms providing vegetables to Campbell’s Soup Company because I tried to do some research on them and that’s what I found out. But so he was bringing in people so, but the conditions were not that well because they would come and they would have to work from early in the morning to late at night and they had nothing else to do to socialize, I mean a lot of them started drinking alcohol became their way to relax on the weekends because on the weekdays they had no time to relax and they and they didn’t know anybody. ROBERTSON: It certainly becomes a social conflict JIMENEZ: Yeah yeah, so he did that for a few years and then he brought my mother and myself to concord and then my sister Juana was born there and from me moved, after he brought us here. I guess even though we had our own little cottage life, I guess he didn’t like that environment for us, for the family environment. It was mostly just men working there. Although my mother, she started making money ironing clothes, and she was making more money that he was. Because she was ironing clothes for the men and the place ROBERTSON: Mmhmmmm JIMENEZ: But there were more family in Chicago so his sisters and brothers were I Chicago so he decided to move to Chicago in 1950 and that’s when we lived in a, what they called a new barrio, a neighborhood a new community because it was developing in Chicago at that time. So everybody kind of knew each other, I would say there was maybe ten thousand Puerto Ricans at that time in the city and they were kind of spread out like Clark, around Chicago avenue, Clark was a neighborhood developing, it was a Puerto Rican neighborhood, it actually was it actually was a skit row area because there was a lot of hotels that they were converting into apartments and rooms and stuff like that it was a little rent. They were ready to tear down the buildings and so there was low rent and that was where Puerto Ricans can go. I mean most of them were migrant workers anyways so they were just coming Page 3 �there to work for a few years and to go back, the same as my father was doing in concord Massachusetts ROBERTSON: Right JIMENEZ: But this time it was in a city and factories and they were trying to make enough money to go back but the plane fair was very expensive and then it wasn’t just the plane fair but when you went back to Puerto Rico, you had to put a fassad, like you had money. So you go there and everybody’s expecting you to buy drinks and everybody’s expecting you to wear the best clothing and everybody’s expecting you to act like your upper class because you have money and you’re an Americano, you’ve been to the united states and so those things were hampered with the travel back and forth because people had to put their fassad to pretend that they were something that they weren’t. ROBERTSON: That’s an interesting condition though, I mean to me essentially what you’re saying is that the condition I Puerto Rico was just a lack of employment and that’s what drove you to the states JINENEZ: Exactly that was very you k know when there is employment here at 90% you’re looking at even at right now 30% in Puerto Rico so it’s definitely by triple the amount that it is here so those were bad times there in the early 50’s, late 40’s and people were looking, there was a big migration at that time of Puerto Ricans coming not only to Chicago but to the Midwest and the steel mills and to the hotels they had a, my uncles had a favorite quote that they used to talk, if you asked them what kind of work they were in they would say that they were gravando discos making records. What they meant by that they were spinning records, what they meant by that they were washing dishes (Tim and Ashlie begin to laugh) because there were so many of them that were living in the well they were working in the hotels in Chicago we lived like six blocks away from the downtown so I mean that was and that kind of created a bad problem later because it was prime real estate so the few Puerto Ricans that were able to buy some houses cheap resold them cheap then there was a whole land grabbed in that area of downtown which is where we came in later, we were, cause we kept moving, we didn’t know, I mean we were not connected to the city at all, we were not connected to the politicians or anything like that or we didn’t pay attention, our parents didn’t pay attention to the news or anything like that because they didn’t speak English ROBERTSON: Right JIMENEZ: And we were young we didn’t care about it and we were like disconnected from the city. Like Mexicans are today, a lot of Mexican people immigrants, are today they are kind of in their own world they’re disconnected and that went like that for a while through generation until we started to go to school and making our own little connections and that but, so we kept moving from one place, we lived there for a few years then we got pushed out of there and moved to another place and so you read in some of the books today that Latinos or Puerto Ricans moved a lot but what they didn’t say was that it would be renewed and being pushed out from on, I mean because we didn’t know that they were trying to re develop the whole lake front ROBERTSON: Okay Page 4 �JIMENEZ: So we just kept moving north along the lake front and so we kept on being pushed out ROBERTSON: So that that berry field then pushed you farther away from downtown JIMENEZ: Right and then they were trying to develop the downtown and the lake front so we were always near downtown I mean because of our jobs because we were with the dishwashers, the women with the hotel, with the maids, with the rich people, they cleaned people’s houses and companies were recruiting women from Puerto Rico to do that and they I can’t think of the name right now of one of the companies but they actually they companies and it was cheap labor they were looking for that and you’re dealing with citizens, you’re not dealing with someone that is not a citizen. Puerto Ricans were born citizens. In 1966 we were getting were for our first world war, and so we were made citizens of the united states, there was no vote or anything like that, they just said you we’re giving you this right to be a citizen and the next day you got to go to war ROBERTSON: Of course JIMENEZ: But it’s true, why would you become a citizen in 1917, what was going on was the war you k now ROBERTSON: Right JIMENEZ: So anyway we were citizens and it gave us some benefits it’s not, so yeah there were some benefits that came with that those benefits made us more independent but you’re talking about food stamp benefits, that we didn’t have before so those benefits were good. We have a lot of companies in Puerto Rico but the owners are over here I mean if you own a business and you’re over here, you’re the one that’s making the main money I mean you’re giving jobs to some people, but you’re the one that’s making the profit so it was like that but, I’m saying that because the whole fight that happened with the young lords later was about self-determination of like Puerto Rico. We believed that Puerto Rico should determine their own destiny and it nothing against the United States believes the same thing I mean they fought their war against England so I mean we believed the same thing. We don’t disrespect the American flag we can’t because we want to respect our flag; we want to fly our own. Right now you have to fly both flags, there was a time in the 30’s when Puerto Ricans were made, they were forced to speak only English in school, that’s crazy. Somebody’s not going to go to Germany and tell everybody ok, you got to speak English now (laughing). ROBERTSON: Right JIMENEZ: What I am saying, no more German allowed that’s what they did to Puerto Rico not everybody but the people in charge. We definitely don’t blame the American people, just the people in charge and I grew up over here so but anyways I got off on in a tangent here ROBERTSON: It’s all right JIMENEZ: So we came to Puerto Rico to la Clark, was the neighborhood we called it and then there was another community called la Madison which was right around down town on the other side, on the western part of it but they actually were together except there was an express way that divides or the Page 5 �Kennedy, that divides up the two neighborhoods so basically we lived downtown and we lived near the lake front, basically we lived in that community. But there was two barrios, there was two neighborhoods that were being built at that time, one was la Clark and one was la Madison. Now people from both la Clark and la Madison moved into Lincoln Park or Wicker Park. And that is where my generation grew up, in either wicker park or Lincoln park and so that’s all knew of Puerto Rico again I can’t remember I was only two years old and most of us came when we were young so we didn’t know anything about Puerto Rico but in our neighborhood here in Chicago and so to us that was our Puerto Rico and all of sudden after were there for like 15, 20 years, here comes the bull dozers again and here comes the urban renewal program and they wanted to evict us again, except this time they’re not evicting our parents, they’re evicting us and we grew up here ROBERTSON: Right JIMENEZ: And so were saying we can’t go for this anymore, we have to do something and that’s kind of how the young lords started. We were just hanging out on the corner I mean we didn’t care about anything, we wanted to listen to music, smoke a little weed, drink a little wine, and have a good time and some of us were soldiers, we went to the service and once in a while we got a little mischief. We would cut the hippies hair (Tim and Ashlie laughing) or jump on the sailors. Some of us probably, I remember going to the dances and there was about eight of us with different stoning cars that we got to just go to the party, if wanted a new car, we couldn’t afford it so we just took it. So we weren’t even taken it to, some people would take it to get the hop cats and sell them or whatever. We would just take it to go to the parties. We weren’t the only ones getting into trouble. I mean we had our fights; we won some we lost some. So I mean that’s all we were about. We weren’t political, our parents were sure not political, they came from the farms from the field of Puerto Rico where there were farm workers. They didn’t have any education, we didn’t have any education, most of us dropped out at eighth grade or ninth grade of high school so we definitely didn’t have no education, our parents had no education. My father was on welfare and my mother worked in a transformer place where she got minimum wage almost and then my father had to say that he didn’t live with us so got welfare, first he got unemployment I guess then he got welfare but he did work for about 13 or 14 years for Oscar Meyer it was a meat factory, he worked in a meat packing factory but then they fired him, they moved the company and so he lost his job and he didn’t want to work again he started hanging out at the bar, became a pool shark and that’s how he made his money I guess but then he sold the numbers, that was another way of making money and the neighborhood was to, now its legal, the lottery is legal but at that time there was no lottery ROBERTSON: Okay JIMENEZ: But in Puerto Rico they did have a lottery that was legal and so they just thought it was okay to sell the numbers but it was not legal because there was no taxes being paid ROBERTSON: Right, right JIMENEZ: But today they didn’t distinguish it too much so I wouldn’t say that my father was a gangster, he did belong to a little club like the old hatchets, it was a name that they chose, but they would get into Page 6 �bar fights, bar brawls but it wasn’t really as gang if you compared to gang stuff its nothing like that. And I think he went to jail twice because I went with my mom to bond him out for fights and he was definitely afraid of jail, he didn’t want to go. Not like me I went a lot of times but he, so he was just more of a family person. In fact Jackie glease, the honeymooners was his favorite show ROBERTSON: Yeah, so you would say that one of the biggest draws for Chicago was your own people there JIMENEZ: The draw, you mean for myself? ROBERTSON: Right, well with you and your family even I mean you were saying that there were more job opportunities JIMENEZ: Right and our families were there we were closer to our family versus being in some farm, in a field farm in the fields and stuff like that but yeah so one of the draws with living in Lincoln park was that there was families growing up together and it became a tight knit neighborhood, just like any other neighborhood ROBERTSON: So would you say it helped maintain a sense of your culture? JIMENEZ: Right and maintain the culture, that’s what I’m saying because it maintained our culture and it made, that was my Puerto Rico, that’s what I knew of Puerto Rico. I loved Puerto Rico today but I never, I didn’t live in it that much what I’m saying. My sisters were all born here and they lived there for several years they loved it there. And I loved it there too but I can’t find any work but their husbands were raised there so they’re kind of used to their economy, their culture and I’m not. I was raised here so I’m used to here more. Even though I love Puerto Rico and defend it I had to me my Puerto Rico was Lincoln Park and that neighborhood and that community and then because we did the bad thing and we did the good things. Think of the new immigrants moving there, like pilgrims ROBERTSON: Mmhmmm JIMENEZ: Because they came in there and actually acted like pilgrims cause they came with a religious fervor from Puerto Rico and when they saw that a lot of the older people, the man would get into gangs and start selling drugs they used religion, they used Catholicism to preach when they saw that the youth could not afford to go a catholic school, my mother had her own catechism in her own house, she had an altar in the house but basically, she would have our living room was about 30 chairs, and the kids would come in there and she would, they would have to memorize the book because she wasn’t a good teacher, she never went to school and she only went to, I don’t think she even went to the 1st grade because she was raised in an orphanage but her mother got ill land so she was raised in an orphanage near san Juan until she was like 15 or 16 then she got connected with my father and they got married but she had catechism classes and they would graduate and she worked it out with the local priest and they would go and do it there. She would have catechism classed and they would have to recite word from word yes ma’am god raised on the third day no mam, yes mama. That’s the way they had to answer that was the way she trained them and she was excited when the priest would come and ask them questions because they would graduating at that time and the families were excited, they would Page 7 �go them like a little suit and fine dresses and that and they would go and receive their first communion and I saw that, I was going to catholic school at that time and it was like one of those where your mother is the minister and you don’t want to be connected to the class, you’re always on the sideline. But I appreciated what my mom was doing and I learned her organizing skills and how she had to talk to the parents and stuff like that. And she did that for, she had a few classes that graduated (Jose’s phone starts ringing) I should have turned this off, sorry ROBERTSON: It’s alright; do you need to take that? JIMENEZ: No, (Jose is trying to turn his phone off) and Tim is trying to help him JIMENEZ: Where were we? ROBERTSON: You were just describing your appreciation with what your mom was doing JIMENEZ: Well I need to also say, because I said we had a little altar, she my mother also, in Puerto Rico there is different customs, so even though 99% are catholic, there’s still old customs from the Indians and from the Africans, so you have their religions also a part of the thing. And my mother had, today she is what you call a charismatic Catholic so that means that they pray to the saints and she’s very into, well the Africans have the santaria, which is what we say is more like voodoo but it’s just a religion from Africa but it’s in the music you here songs like changu, and all that so my mother wasn’t into that, she was more into Indian, she said I’m an Indian. But even though she was catholic she doesn’t say it because she would get criticized even with the community. But I know that she believe, she says I believe in the tongues and the holy spirit, which is catholic but I know for her is was little bit more. But I don’t think she understand the whole religion part of it, she’s just like, you go to any Puerto Rican neighborhood and they have what they call botanicas, so you can go in there and buy candles and different things and that a regular store and they make good money because there’s a lot of people that buy that stuff. So m my mother was just kind of picking from that, she’s like one of those people that would pick a candle. Right, so she did believe and that so I wanted to say it, because it is part of our culture I mean it’s not just a religion, its apart of our culture, it’s a part of the fact that Puerto Ricans are Indian, African and European Spanish, so I have my light features because from the European Spanish. But even within our own family for 500 years we’re mix. So there’s also a saying in Puerto Rico that says y tu abuela donde esta? And your grandmother where is she? Meaning that all our grand mothers were from Africa. I mean that’s what they’re trying to day by this saying. Even though they weren’t all, what they mean is that we’re all mix; we cannot be prejudice against anybody, because we’re, we’re all, we’re all mixed people. So we’re mixed for 500 years, so talking about diversity… ROBERTSON: You were ahead of the game? JIMENEZ: We were ahead of the game a little bit, I think. But the problem also—it says that in the United States we don’t get our history. And, and so we’re, we’re not being taught that, although that’s common knowledge among Puerto Ricans that, that went to school in Puerto Rico. So, the Puerto Ricans that grew up here don’t [pause] don’t have that knowledge. We were, what the Young Lords were doing [pause] was to try to teach people about their history and, that’s one of the things that we, we promoted that we still promote. Page 8 �ROBERTSON: Say, I’m kind of curious moving onto that point… what was it like actually organizing and assembling the Young Lords? JIMENEZ: Well, that’s [pause] it wasn’t easy. I mean it’s still not easy today, I mean, ROBERTSON: Certainly. JIMENEZ: You kind of have to keep one step ahead of yourself, even today. [Pause] I mean, part of the reason I’m in Michigan has to, has to do with some of that, too. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: But [pause] I got in, in, I went to jail, I got from the gang we went, we, there were different stages in the gang. We were first starting out; we’re just kind of just drinking and having a good time… ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And then we started organizing ourselves and then we started trying to get a name for ourselves so we go to [pause] to other neighborhoods, to challenge them right in their own neighborhoods. to, to let ‘em know we can kick their butt in their own neighborhood. At that time it wasn’t like today where you just are shooting, but some of us had, some weapons, but just some of us. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: Well we were going to another neighborhood. I remember going with Orlando one day and, and we went, and we used to have to walk around this one neighborhood because The Corps used to hang around there and The Corps was a [pause] was a grouping of a lot of Italian, Irish, Polish gangs, and they all… ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: They used to be the Saint Michael’s Drum and Bugle Corps but they [pause] they changed into a gang. They, they, they started The Corps themselves became a gang. so we used to have to, to go to… we had a branch in Old Town it was like ten blocks away from our other branch, so me and Orlando, Orlando was the founder of the gang—Orlando Davila—was the founder of the street gang. I was the founder of I was one of the original founders with him. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: But I was the founder of the political group the Young Lords. So I transformed the gang into, into the Young Lords as a political movement. So anyway, we, we walk, one day we’re walking and we would always have to go around the churches. Orlando said, “what, I got my pistol from my father, we’re gonna walk—me and you are gonna walk right through there. And I’m going…[all laugh a bit] And I’m going to let you; you better protect me because I don’t have nothing. ROBERTSON: Right. Page 9 �JIMENEZ: I had like a little knife and that was it, but, we’re talking about like eighty people that we’re going right… ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: Going through eighty people on the playground, so we’re, we’re walking in there [pause] and, I mean, there was like a big pride in us because I knew he had that, that, that weapon. I knew that he had that, and, and at that time there weren’t that many people carrying guns like they do today. ROBERTSON: Yeah. JIMENEZ: And today that wouldn’t work. [Chuckles] ROBERTSON: Yeah, I bet. JIMENEZ: But so usually they would have bats and sticks and stuff like that; throw rocks, whatever—or, cut you up or something like that. So anyway, we’re walking through the middle and I can see these, these, these guys are, you can hear them. “Whoa, look at these Puerto Ricans here, they think they’re bad. Look, they’re walking through our neighborhood,” that kind of stuff; ROBERTSON: Yeah. JIMENEZ: And I’m just glowing, like I know they’re not gonna... No, but they’re kind of afraid; they don’t know what we got. They don’t know what we got, but finally they kind of surround us and that, and they go, “Whoa, you guys are bad,” and, I don’t know what Orlando told them. He just said something, but, all of a sudden, “We should kick your butt,” and that, something like that. Orlando said, “Well, come on!” and that… [Fumbling over words] when they took out the pistol he started shooting, like in the air, and it just emptied out—the whole playground emptied out. [Sounds of shock/amazement] JIMENEZ: But, I mean after that, [pause] after that we would walk through there; it was like, everything was okay. I mean, we, ‘cause we went to school with some of these people, so the next day I got to the school and then after that there was no more, like we couldn’t walk through there. Now, to, to some people they would say that that’s prejudice that we can’t walk through there, ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: But we were looking at it more like from a gang point, point of view; but you can, today you can kind of look at it and say—well, what Puerto Ricans… ‘Cause we had the same problem at the beach; we couldn’t, Puerto Ricans couldn’t go to the beach, so it wasn’t just the youth, it was the adults. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: We couldn’t go to North Avenue Beach in Chicago, and that was in our neighborhood, so we had to go to Fullerton Beach, and, so the beaches were segregated. Chicago was a, was a segregated town at that time. It’s still somewhat segregated—where you have different, Puerto Ricans in one area; Mexicans in another; Page 10 �ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: Italians in another; Irish in another;, Polish in, in another; so, so there in Lincoln Park it was like that, but, and, and blacks. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: So these three blocks would be Polish. These three blocks German; like that, and we couldn’t, like African Americans couldn’t move north of North Avenue. In Chicago, there’s a street called North Avenue; and you would hear that, I mean, I would hear that as a kid going to the barber shop I heard [pause] because I was light-skinned, they didn’t know I was Puerto Rican [laughs], ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: So I’m sitting there getting my hair cut, I’m just a little kid, and I’m hearing these adults talking about, “Mayor Daley, he’s not gonna let no blacks move past North Avenue. We don’t have to worry about that,” So, this was during the time of Urban Renewal, but I didn’t know that. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: So there, so, so Urban Renewal to us was it was like a master plan for that city for—a fifty year master plan to clean up the lakefront and the downtown area. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And we were just caught up in the middle of that—the Lincoln Park neighborhood and Wicker Park later. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: Because now Wicker Park no longer exists as we knew it then. That was also a Puerto Rican community, and it was wiped off the map. and I’m saying, you’re talking about thirty or forty thousand people to sixty thousand people in a neighborhood. ROBERTSON: They just had to up and relocate. JIMENEZ: Right, I mean they were like sixty thousand people, but let’s say a good thirty percent of that were, were Puerto Rican. That’s a good percentage, and we were all centered in the central part of the area. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: The rest were, were the lakefront that was always the same way. They called it the Gold Coast, so there was no urban renewal there. but in our neighborhood it was completely wiped out and just robbed; it was a land grab. I mean, they took they tra… they bought—they did it— legally, it was legal, a legal land grab. so, [fumbles over words] everything was done legally, if you, if you think that out of, out of a city council with fifty elder men and forty-nine of them are democrats, so if that’s legal to you [all laugh] Page 11 �JIMENEZ: Forty-nine out of fifty are voting one way, with Mayor Daley. So, if that’s le… if that’s called laws, making laws, I don’t know where to… [Laughing] I don’t know where it’s democracy; it’s definitely not the Americas. And they call themselves democrats; that’s the other thing, see. Here, it’s, it was strange for me to come to Michigan because everybody’s Republican, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And I’m going like, “I can’t tell the difference.” It’s, [all laugh], we’re still in the same boat. But, [pause] but anyway, I got off track again, I, I don’t know maybe we’ve got another question. ROBERTSON: Let’s see… yeah just I mean that process of organizing… JIMENEZ: Oh, organizing; okay, yeah. Okay, so we were in the gang—we’re gang banging, we’re doing all this stuff—I come out of jail, I’m in jail and I start reading, I got put in the hole, ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: And they said, we go to jail and, and all the Puerto Ricans hang out together, that’s just common. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And so there was some, some gangs there and they said “Those guys are a gang and they, and they want to attack us,” so they’re telling the guards; and then they’re talking about escaping because this one guy, we were joking and he’s, he’s putting his head through the window. So they say, “If you can put your head through the window, you’re gonna put your whole body,” So he’s, but he’s just joking; we’re not talking about escaping. He’s just, playing games. We’re just passing the time away; ROBERTSON: Yeah. JIMENEZ: And so anyway that night they, they took us all downstairs, strip-searched us, and, took us to the hole; and that was a, a, a city jail so, so it was a, the house of correction? ROBERTSON: Mmh. JIMENEZ: So the most you do there is a year, and but, and I was doing sixty days and everybody else was doing like ten days, or something like that. So I had the most time; I had just come in, and now I’m like, they’re saying that I’m trying to escape so they’re putting me in maximum security, which is the hole, which means I don’t get out of my cell but once a week for a shower, and that’s it, and that’s with a guard. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: So, you’ve got a lot of time to read; there’s not, no, nobody else there but you. I mean, it’s an old Civil War, Civil War cell house, so the catwalk, instead of being steel, it was wooden; and they had, they had big cats to get the rats, ‘cause there were rats, and there were roaches. ROBERTSON: Wow. Page 12 �JIMENEZ: I mean can you imagine going to jail [all laugh] and you gotta deal with roaches in jail. [Laughs] Oh, man; but, and then it was real cramped up cells and stuff like that. So I mean, you had nothing else, you’re spent most of the day in your underwear and, and, and you listen to the radio which is on a loud, those loud speakers like on M.A.S.H. that t.v. program. They had like loud speakers that you would hear the radio all day; and [pause] so you had a lot of time to, to, to, to think there. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And so, I’m coming with my family—my mother being religious and that, and, and she had tried to convince me to become a priest anyways, at one time, before I got into the gang thing. I started trying to reflect and, and I wanted to go to confession—, as a Catholic you want to go to confession— and confess my sins and, and then I was using. I went from the gang to the drugs. That’s what, what you lead to; it goes from the gang to the, to the hard drugs. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And so I said, “I don’t want,” “I don’t want the hard drugs,” I want to get away from that. a little beer and that, that’s fine. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: [Pause] But I don’t, I didn’t want to be involved with the, with the drugs, with the hard drugs. So, I went to confession and then they, I wanted to go to confession and the guard says, “Well, what you’re trying to do is just get out of your cell;” so, “we can’t let… you can’t go to confession.” I said, “What do you…” so I start trying to get legal on him, “You’re trying to,” you’re trying to well, I mean not legal, I just tried to tell him, “All I want to do is go to confession. Can I have the priest come here?” ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: He said, “I don’t know if we can do that.” So I said, “Well, I’m asking,” . So he told me, “Put a note, and we’ll do that;” so that’s what I did, and then all of a sudden the priest came and, —, I it took a little bit because I had, you’re in a p-prison-like environment, [pause] and, you’re gonna go to confession, that’s like drinking [laughing] cookies and milk, what I’m saying? ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: It’s like, “Are you trying to be a Cub Scout in here? You can’t be a Cub Scout. You gotta… you’re not going along with the program.” But anyway I didn’t care; what I’m saying? I was, I was, … it was… when I believe in something that’s the way I, I was ? I, I didn’t care. That’s what I learned from my, from my mother and from her religion and stuff like that and so I said, “I don’t care. We’ll go to confession right here,” and, you feel like an-anybody when they go to confession. You feel pretty good afterwards and, and so I start… so now I’m hearing all this stuff about the Black Panthers, and I’m going to confession and then I hear the Black Panthers are on the radio and they’re taking over a courthouse in Alameda, California and they’re going with guns and everything to take over, and I’m going like, “Wow,” “this is great! This is what we need to do.” [all laugh] So I’m gonna change my life. I’m gonna stop gang banging and I want to become a revolutionary; what I’m saying? I don’t want to, … so then, Page 13 �then at the same time they’re bringing Martin Luther King… is, is, is killed, and so they’re bringing in the people that are riding, they’re bringing them into our cell house. ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: So we’re looking at them from the top of, our cells. We’re looking down as they’re being [pause] shaken down, to see if they’ve got that… anything in there. Then they’re being asked questions diagnostic… questions, when they come in. So they’re bringing in riders and all of a sudden they’re also they’re doing raids on, on Mexican undocumented workers. So they’re bringing them in, and now there’s black guards--there’s not that many Spanish guards—but there’s black and white guards mainly. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: But I’m looking at the black guards and they’re pushing the, the Latinos, and even though they’re Mexican or Puerto Rican—but they’re still Latinos, just like me; and so I’m going like, “Why don’t you leave those people alone? You don’t, you don’t,” I’m yelling; we’re yelling—the few Latinos that are up in the jail. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: We’re yelling out, “Why don’t you leave them people alone? They’re not messing with you. They don’t understand what you’re talking about.” So, they would start asking a couple of qu- they would ask, the couple of black guys that were pretty good they would ask us a couple questions so we could help them translate. So then, I asked them, I said, “ what, I’ll translate,” “there’s not a problem. I’ll…” “Oh, you want to get out of your cell again.” I said, “No, no, no, no; I’ll do it from here.” [laughter] So I started yelling the questions and answers, back and forth and, that kind of helped me, also. I was like, I’m, I’m, I’m kind of serving my people or something like that, or in a way. so, so the riders and the Mexican, undocumented workers that were coming through there… and then I’m reading about Martin Luther King. The first book I read, though, was Thomas Merton, and I found out later he, he, he was a Trappist Monk, and I felt like a Trappist Monk [all laugh] in the cell, so he was, like, going through the same kind of stuff. So then, [pause] so I read that first, so that’s why I went to confession. I mean, that made me go to confession, the fact that he was religious and all that. But then I started reading Martin Luther King, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And then I read Malcom X also. so that was two different philosophies: one was for peace, and one was for by any means necessary. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: [interviewee coughs] Excuse me, and then I’m, I’m hearing about the, the Panthers on, on the radio at the same time, and then... Anyway, I get out, I said, “What I need to do, what we need to do is to, to do the same thing for Puerto Ricans, ; ‘Cause we don’t have nothing like the Panthers. This is what we need to do.” Page 14 �ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: So I came out with that idea, I’m gonna come out and I’m gonna try to ‘cause I was still the leader of the Young Lords at that time. So, I’m gonna try to do something with the Young Lords and do that, because I knew every time you go to jail they, the, the gang kind of breaks up a little bit and… ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: They don’t break up but they don’t, they don’t meet. There’s no meetings in there, … ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: That wasn’t to meet; and so, I came out but I had to deal with other stuff. I had to deal with— [laughing] I didn’t have a job, ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: What I’m saying, and so I, I got into this, program at the Argonne National Laboratory where half of the day I would be a janitor and the other half I would study for my GED. ROBERTSON: Nice. JIMENEZ: So, [pause] that was a riot, too. [laughing] But I mean, that, that, … we used to hide out and everything like that [all laughing] from our work, but we did, but we did… Anyway, they took us on a [pause] on a field trip to the Democratic convention and we saw the hippies getting beaten up; and before that, like I said, we used to cut the hippies’ hair. I mean, we just, just… they were there in Old Town, so they were there with us. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: It… Many of them were our friends, but we would do it just, just as, as a prank. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: And like I said, we fought with the sailors and that so it wasn’t no big thing, but [pause] but anyway, we went to the Democratic convention and now they’re… we’re all former gang members or, or, or we’re still gang member’s but we’re studying for GED. So in there we’re getting along, everybody gets along because we’re all for the same thing. We’re trying to, get our GED. So we go to the Democratic convention and the police are running to get the hippies and they’re beating them up, but they’re beating up reporters, and we’re saying to ourselves, “If they come to us,” everybody’s saying, “Is everybody going to stand for themselves?” and everybody said, “Yeah, we’re ready.” so I mean you could tell that we were, we, we were going to fight. Our thing was not peace. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: We were [laughing] we were gang bangers and we don’t know anything about what’s going on, we just came on, on a trip, a high school trip here. Page 15 �ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: They’re not going to beat us up, so… So anyway, when they came, we just kept walking straight. I remember about five or six of us, and the, and the professor—the teacher—and the police ran around us. They did… they, they could, I mean the way we were dressed, they could tell that we were not part of that, that crowd. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: So it wasn’t that we put fear in them, [laughter] it’s just that these guys are not any part of this. They kind of let us go, but that kind of stuck [pause] seeing people getting beat up, that kind of stuck in my, in my head ‘cause we would get beat up by the police, too. that kind of stuff, and all this kind of stuff that I was reading. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: So, anyway I had, I… On a different day, I met this lady, Pat Devine, and she was with some— two other people from the Concerned Citizens of Lincoln Park, and I’m talking to Benny, who was a Young Lord, and he was in his uniform and he’s proud that he just… he’s on leave from Vietnam, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And this lady comes in, and I’m looking at the neighborhood since I got out—I was only gone sixty days ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: And I could see the changes ROBERTSON: Wow. JIMENEZ: and this lady, I mean, they would… I mean, one-way streets, two-way streets, or one-way streets, you could see people getting thrown out by the sheriff and, and I’m talking to Benny, my friend, my best friend. He’s a Young Lord and he’s in a uniform and he’s proud. He’s a, a Vietnam veteran and all this stuff, —the Vietnam War because we were the ones who were put in the front lines. our, our people, … and this nice lady is telling him, “You’re killing the, the, the [pause] Vietnamese people,” and all this other stuff. I’m going like… so I go to his defense. To Benny’s defense and I used… I don’t mean any disrespect—I go, “Look, you [laughs] white bitch,” ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: “who the heck do you think you are? You’re kicking us out of our neighborhood, and this man is fighting for our, for our people; and you’re kicking us out of our neighborhood against…”, “You’re a Communist,” and she goes, “I’m proud to be a Communist.” I go, “Oh no! [laughter] This lady’s crazy. This lady’s way out there; this lady’s crazy.” So, … so, anyway she, she hit me hard; harder than another guy would hit me—I mean she knocked me down with the way she, the way she could express herself and stuff like that; Page 16 �ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: And, so it made me stop to think, and then, then I was a-already thinking about urban renewal and she says, “, we’re f… we’re… our organization is trying to fight to help people stay here,” . So, I mean, it started making sense to me. You get what I’m saying? So anyway, that night the, the other guys that were trying to rap to her and to her other friend and, and trying to, they were just trying to just rap to her but I was interested more in what she was saying; ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And, anyway, she invited me and Benny and, and everybody else to go to her house. just to relax and stuff like that—have a, have a few beers, stuff like that. So we did that, and we… I remember we were just talking all night, I mean we were sitting there talking and, and, and I’m asking her questions about it and stuff like that; and so she invited me and … me to, to, to come to a meeting. She said, “Well, can you bring any people to come to the urban renewal meeting,” ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And I’m going, “I can bring a thousand people. I’m the leader,” [laughter] that kind of stuff. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: So she said, “Well it’s going to be in about three weeks,” “just, whatever you can come… whatever, as many people as you can get just bring them,” ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: “Because it’s an important meeting about the neighborhood.” it was the Department of Urban Renewal was coming in. So that’s… this is a long story, but it’s… that’s when I started organizing and then I found out that, that to get people to come to a gang fight was a lot easier than to get ‘em to come to a meeting. [all laugh] what I’m saying? I mean, I, I went, I, I… people are supposed to organize like in the houses and stuff like that—well I didn’t know—I organized on street corners and in the bars. ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: That’s all I knew. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: The street corners and the bar. So I, I remember going to the bar of, of another gang ‘cause I’m trying to reach out to everybody, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: All the different gangs, and I remember going into the bar and they go, “Oh, here comes that nut again, Cha Cha,” [all laugh] and, and, and even the bartender didn’t want me in there. ROBERTSON: Wow. Page 17 �JIMENEZ: And I’m talking and I said, “man, they’re kicking us out of our neighborhood,” and, real basic stuff. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: I… “You see these one-way signs,” and all this, real basic stuff. “Oh, you’re a Communist,” and I go, “I’m a Communist? Come on out and tell me that.” [laughter] So I would go out and get beat up [laughs] and then they would buy me a drink and, it went like that. like I said, I got beat up a lot of times and put down and, and and, basically they didn’t want you there. The bartender didn’t want you there, you’re messing with his customers. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: The guys didn’t want to hear, they don’t want to talk about that. they… politics, they don’t want to… and they thought I was crazy and stuff like that. So it was like a, … but I learned that from my mom. I mean, I learned that you had to be, you had to be committed. You had to stay, stay with it; that it takes time to, to organize something. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: I mean, it wasn’t easy. Those kids come into the house, for catechism, wasn’t just they did a lot of stuff; they did the catechism, and then they did, rosaries like because what their goal was to get Spanish mass… ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: In the churches. There was no Spanish mass. ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: And, their goal was also to get them… they would have, they finally got some Spanish masses, but then they put—they did the mass in the hall instead of the regular church because it was offensive to the, to the regular parishioners; and there was, there was not enough Puerto Ricans to, to, to… They felt that there was not enough Puerto Ricans, but actually the hall was getting more filled up than the church. [laughing] what I’m saying? ROBERTSON: Right, right. JIMENEZ: but they did a lot of good stuff; and then they worked with the gangs. I mean, the, I mean they, the… It became a community, because when there was a big gang epidemic, when we started fighting and stuff like that, they started organizing dances—weekly, weekly dances. So they were smart; they made money [pause] and they work, they work with their kids. They were, they could see their kids, so I mean… and they could promote, proselytizing, that’s what you call it. they could promote their, their church, also. out of that community, Lincoln Park came the first Puerto Rican parade of Chicago; out of this, this group called, the Knights of St. John, which was equivalent to the Knights of Columbus; ROBERTSON: Okay. Page 18 �JIMENEZ: And the Damas de María, Hijas de María, “Daughters of Mary”, in Spanish… [pause] But out of that they’re organized; my parents became that, and then we did our own organizing as youths, the Young Lords; because we didn’t just… When we, when, when we started to grow as Young Lords we didn’t just organize the Young Lords, we organized all the other youth in the area, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: All the other youth groups and stuff like that. But yet, the, the organizing part was, … I took you on a whole trip [laughing] to tell you that I was getting beat up every day... [all laugh] that it wasn’t that easy, that, the organizing; and, and, and then we got beat up by the cops later, so that’s, so that’s a different story. I mean, after we get organized we’re thinking that we’re doing good, good things, right. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: ‘Cause we’re, we’re not fighting. We’re refusing to fight any, anybody. we’re not, we’re trying to stay away from drugs; we don’t, we don’t want… we’re opposed to drugs. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: We are for discipline; we want people to give more discipline. we want people to go to school; I mean, we thought we were doing everything the right way, but we begin to get attacked, by the police. for doing the… now they hate us more than when we were in, in a gang. They literally hate us more; I mean, they’re… anybody that’s wearing our button, they’re putting them against the wall and shaking them down, and these are community people who are wearing our buttons. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: They had a car parked twenty-four hours a day in front of our, our, our church; we did take over the church, but it became our headquarters and we had a daycare center there. We had a free breakfast for children program; we had a free health clinic; and we had cultural educational classes that were taught in the church. So, before it was empty. So we did take it over, and then, but right away the next day after we took it over… because the pastor had been working with us, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: It was the congregation that was opposed to us. We told them it’s not really a take-over, we just want to work together with, with the church for the community; and that pastor was later killed about six months later because it’s a cold case. It hasn’t been, [pause] proven who killed him or why. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: But we know that, during that time he was killed, another pastor was killed, and Fred Hampton from the Panthers were killed. So we knew that it was some kind of pattern going on there at the time but we, but we can’t prove it. I mean we, we know that; and, and out of respect for the family we, we didn’t promote it at that time. we didn’t talk about it that, that, that much. just out of respect for them, but by not talking about them people thought that we had something to do with it; because they used knives and all Puerto Ricans are supposed to carry knives. I mean they, but, it was a, … Page 19 �ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: People that, that, that read about it they could tell that it was something related to passion [fumbling over words] because of the way he was stabbed; he was stabbed seventeen times and his wife nine times. so it was, that was passion that tells you… it had to do with passion. ROBERTSON: Certainly. JIMENEZ: Now, when we took over the church we put Che Guevara as a mural; we put out Lisa Compos, which is another, Puerto Rican—nationalist from Puerto Rico; we put Lolita Lebrón, another Puerto Rican nationalist woman; we put Adelita, a woman from Mexico; and we put Emiliano Zapata on the wall. We put, like I said Che Guevara was on, was on the wall; so that could make somebody in the congregation… because the congregation was mostly Cuban exiles, so that could make Cuban exiles angry. We didn’t think about it because, we were thinking, “We’re Puerto Ricans,” and the community was mainly Puerto Rican; ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: But, I could see why that would make them very angry that they’re first to put a mural of Che Guevara on their church wall. I mean, today I wouldn’t do that, I mean, … ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: But we, we didn’t … We didn’t mean any harm by that, but I mean, … but I’m saying that could be one of the reasons. Now another, another thing was that we protested against the local mafia because he had put a sub-machine gun on a Puerto Rican business owner, because he, the business owner owned a restaurant and couldn’t afford the rent at that time. So the, the, the real estate office, who was, who was also the local mafia guy—and the reason I know he was the local mafia guy was my father. He used to sell the, bring the money for the numbers to him. So I knew, [laughing] so I knew that personally. Yeah, he was the local mafia; but any… but we still picketed in front of his place and, and I went with some, with some people that had a local tabloid newspaper, ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And, and they took pictures while this guy put his sub-machine gun on me. All I did was put my finger in my pocket, I didn’t [ROBERTSON: Wow.] have a weapon. So I put my finger in my pocket because I didn’t know what else to do when he put the sub-machine gun… and he ran into the back office that had a window and started calling the police. The police comes in, he comes out with his submachine gun and the police is there, and they’re frisking me [ROBERTSON: What?!] while this guy’s holding a sub-machine gun, but we’re taking pictures. So we took pictures and we, and we put those on the newspaper tabloid—about twenty pictures all around the front page; ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: And then we, we, we split about twenty thousand copies of them, we spread through the neighborhood; Page 20 �ROBERTSON: Yeah. JIMENEZ: And so, after that we didn’t, we didn’t break his windows, [laughs] but the adults were breaking them. Every Friday night they would break his window. He started with a big picture window and then… little, little, little blocks of windows; but, so it could have been, it could have been them too. I mean, it could have been the local mafia that we had to deal with, because the local mafia was the one pushing real estate with the city. It could have Lee Alderman, because Lee Alderman had an organization called United People to Inform Good-Doers and they were going through our garbage cans and stuff like that trying to find any information that they could to use against us. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: And that they could publicize to the… they thought we were getting funding from the Methodist churches in the suburbs, so they, they publicized a few things in the suburbs, Lee Alderman did. Now, we also broke into Lee Alderman’s press conference and, and exposed them because he had gotten caught with a prostitute in the neighborhood, so we exposed him right in front of the media. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: So he wasn’t too happy with that, either; [laughter] so we were making enemies, I mean is what I’m saying, and, and they, they were, our target was, was the pastor who was allowing us to… Oh, and they were also trying to, … there’s letters at DePaul University where they, they were sending letters to the bishop, trying to get the bishop to kick us out of the church; ROBERTSON: Okay. JIMENEZ: And he was saying no, that he was not, going to kick us out and the bishop was with us. he’s saying, “No, no,” “that’s his ministry and, and, and we’re gonna let him work with the youth. He’s working with the youth, so that’s his ministry.” So, so Lee Alderman and the committee, the uptight United People to Inform Good-Doers was definitely… had a campaign to try and get us out of there; and they were connected with the local mafia and the police and everybody else, so, so I don’t know… but then we also had the fact that we were part of a a rainbow coalition with the Black Panther Party and the Young Patriots, which was, an Appalachian white group that, that was, that we were working together with, and, so they… the Black Panther Party was being investigated by COINTELPRO, the Counter-Intelligence Program. ROBERTSON: Mmhm. JIMENEZ: So anybody that was connected to them—and we definitely were—I mean, I was going to speaking engagements with, Fred Hampton many, many times and many days. We spent a whole day with him because he was helping train, train us also. ROBERTSON: Right. JIMENEZ: We were learning from… so the- we had a lot of enemies at that time. We were in cir- what you call in circles, they were circling… we were the wagon and they were circling us. and we didn’t… and Page 21 �all we were trying to do was just, like to save our community; I mean, that’s all we were trying to do. We were probably saying too many things we didn’t need to say, but, other things, but I mean that was the main reason that, that we started was to save, to save the neighborhood;, save our ‘hood, save our neighborhood… but, [pause] but anyway, that’s how… That was a long one, right? [all laugh] JIMENEZ: I mean we did not understand how at that time I was well liked by a lot of people at that time and I know I should be liked more because I went through a program substance abuse programs and everything to change my negativity right. ROBERTSON: Mhmm JIMENEZ: I should be liked more, but I am hatted more ROBERTSON: Hmm? JIMENEZ: So that was we are saying was a concerted effort. To discredit me and what we were doing to people and that was one of the reasons that I ran for alderman and in nineteen seventy five it was more so that we could stay alive. As a movement and so that I ran in the neighborhood north of Lincoln Park which was lake view uptown because there were no more Puerto Ricans left in Lincoln park and in uptown they were starting to kick the Puerto Ricans out of there as well as like I said we kept moving north and west. So the aldermanic campaign I remember because we had to go underground and I went underground because I got arrested eighteen times in a six week period and for all felonies and so they were it was clear that they were trying to destroy the group in that way so I got a year and asked for a little time to straighten things out with my family and I took off and just went underground that meant that like today I could say that I am underground but because I am not in Chicago I am not in public or anything. But so we did that for like two and a half years which was I would have liked to looking back at it today I would have rather done two and a half years in jail then to be underground for two and a half years because at least in jail you have communication but I could not even communicate with my own family for two and a half years so that that’s why it was more difficult in that way but next time I would just take the jail time but anyway the while I was underground we organized a couple of movements a few more chapters of the young lords like in Los Angeles and San Diego and Hayward and Boston we worked with a group there so we were keeping a little busy while we were underground then what I decided was we needed like a training school for the leadership because I found out that Chicago was kinda falling apart a little bit m and they were starting to put drugs back in to the neighborhood so when I heard a lot of that stuff I said let’s get a group of people and we will rent a farm in Tomah Wisconsin I considered that because no one is there but we rented a farm in Tomah Wisconsin and about twenty three of use lived together like a commune but not really we had structure we would wake up in the morning and every one would have chores it was like a program and then people had to read. Like my mother I was not a teacher so I would tell them to read the book and discuss it I want I didn’t really have a plan you just have to read this book so we read it so read books like Frantz Fanon and books like that and some Lennon books but m we were mainly concerned with what they call the national question so that was the whole question of Puerto Rico, self-determination and how to organize that and in other words it was a two-step process because people were saying that we have to talk about the class struggle the poor vs. the rich and we were saying that we also have to talk about Puerto Rico we have a Page 22 �nation called Puerto Rico so it is ok to be a little nationalistic as long as you are also internationalist as long as it is not racist because we were against nationalism because that was racist but we said its ok to talk about that and be proud of that as long as you are still an internationalist and you respect everyone else and so that was to us the national question so said that before you can talk about class struggle m it is all collectivism or whatever but it’s all the same thing it’s all mixed up anyway but before we could even get to that point, but at that point everyone was talking about the class struggle or organize the workers and stuff like that and I’m going we can’t even get in to the job you want us to organize the job but we can’t even get in the plant so we are going to organize with in the community so that was what we decided that we needed not in the factory but in the community but I am not saying not to organize as an effect but our goal as an organization is to organize the values(27:55) to organize the communities and to look at it geographically to go door to door and that what we learned latter on with the aldermanice campaine and the mayoral campaine of mayor Washington was to go door to door that that was the best form of organizing we had programs but if you go door to door you don’t miss anybody and so our goal then became clear what our job had to be it was to go to each latino balto and try to organize door to door and stuff like that but we were never able to because of funding and other stuff we were never able to accomplish that goal completely, but it did spread and it did spread to other cities like that like creating base areas we called it but that was the kind of stuff that we started at the training school and that we did that for about two years and then from there we started doing target practice because we though that the revelution was going to be the next day and this guy blew his thumb off (Ha-ha) so we had to close down the place we had to get out of there because I was wanted by the law and so every one could have gone to jail but I had to so we moved from there to millwalky and we put out a newspaper and then whent back to Chicago and got appartments and people lived togeather and today when I am doing these interviews today there are still living togeather in the same apartment you go to one apartment house and everone in the building is an organizer that works togeather but they are not all young lords they are in different group but they learned from us because that is what we did so we went back to Chicago and we I actualy was livng a couple of blocks from the police station were I turned myself in laterbut we planed the turning of myself back in, turning my self in. but it is like they are not going to do this for us we have to do it aurselfs so passed out flyers all over the neighborhood and we sent them to peole in the media to make sure that they would be there and stuff like that and then we had about five hundered people when it was like four below zero(25:36) and there was like five hundered people marching when I turned myself in and basecly I wwnt downtown and took a cab and drove up to the police station and the marchers are on this side and I am paying the cab driver and I start to walk in to the crowd and I start shaking hands with every body and the loyers were there and the police grabed me right away but I was able to shack hands with a few people and then because of the layers they let me talk through a loud speaker to the crowed and stuff like that and so that was good I mean it was a good event but the fact that we had five hundered people show up at four below zero was pretty amazing that was pretty good and then right away they took me and I started my year in jail and wial I was doing the year in jail we were planning the alderman campaign and so when I can outit was easy because people know that I had just came out of jail and I am running for alderman(24:35) so I mean that brought news but we did a good campaine we had 39 percent of the vote for the first time and all you need is 51 percent to win and usualy the first time people get like one percent but I mean we did pretty good. And the second time it was not me running but the major and Page 23 �we helped him win the election so it was a different feeling from picket signes to, I think two hours are up, right (Ha-ha) from picket signes we went to a victory we won a majors we won a majors race and it was a different fealing because I could wallk in to city hall and see the major when I want just callhim up and say that I am on my way I did not have anything important to talk to him about it was just to say hello (Ha-ha) but it was a great fealing. I remember that night when we won because see our office was the fullerton office and it was mixed it was divers and latino were atomaticly going to go vote for herald not attomaticly I mean that we had to do our work but we were winning eighty to ninty present for herald Washington major the first African American major and in the purto rican area and in the anglo community in the white community they did not do that well but still with out them getting any vote we would have not have won and so I remember how hapy they were too I mean it was like hay we won like yea we did it. So it was a good fealing I am telling you I i remember my cousin I had submitted his name for the some liberary board and and I walk in to city hall and there was a couple of other people there with me and I see him and I great him an I go hay how are you doing Carmelo and he goes hay cha cha how are you and I says if you cant he says that if you came to see that major he is out of town you will not be able to see him and I’m going like I’m thinking that he is out of town I just talked to him but I did not tell him that so I said ok he said that I have been here a couple of hours and I am going to see the cheaf of staff because they are going to put me on the library board and I am going I know because I put your name (Ha-ha)ha but anyway so I’m going in there and this guy herald safical the security guard he is a cop major safle but he is a progressive cop he was with the he was for the panthers and things like that. And he goes hay cha cha so I say ok and I go in to the back and sure enough halrald Washington in in the back (Ha-ha)ha he was not out of town we was in the backbut I had gone to see him because I had went with some bills to his office and I sayed who is paying for this because I don’t have no money (Haha)so that was pretty pretty amazing times at that time and then he won again the second time but I did not work on that I was in Michigan during the second time but that was a victory for us because what happened is because we were the first group, latino group in the city to indorce him we did not ask for money you see our thing was more poklitical and we did not ask we were conserned about the community we were we vote we worked on his campaine because he rep… in fact it was called neighberhoods vs. downtown so that is why it fit in with what we were in to (20:37) so we were for his campaine and we know he had that he was very progressive person and we wanted anyone to defeat the daily machine so he was against that so so when he won he he organized he we did we and the office of special events for Chicago organized an event in the purto rican neighborhood of humble park and there were a hundered thousand Puerto Ricans in that park I mean wall to wall Puerto Ricans in that park and I was the only one on stage introducing the major at that time and he and he we were able to be able to choose that band that played it was willy colone and when he came to town people would pay like 40 50 dollars to see him and so they were seing him for free so that loded it up plus we did media on the radio and stuff like that that was payed from the budget of the office of special events so we were kind of directing it but they were kinds supling the money and the expertise to quordinate it because he had invited all of the community leaders to sit in a band shell or what ever but I was the only one on stagewith introducing the major but that is that whole speech in in the wikipidia article it’s a hole little two minite speech that I gave. Introducing him cus there that to use represented the victory we had went from a gang or what ever from an…to to becoming the young lords picketing protesting to taking over occupy they use the word occupy to day but we were calling it takeovers then and and our Page 24 �takovers we won we did not leave till our demands were met and and we were so unpredictabale that they wanted to give us the demands so what ever you want you can have (Ha-ha) because they did not know were we were going to come from so there was a few of us running around with guns (Ha-ha) and we are not leaving so I mean but and the families but we would have got killed but the families that were in side wial we took over micormic seminary for example we were there for a whole week the demands were $605,000 for them to invest in to low income housing, $25,000 for the health clinic for two health clinics so that was $50,000 and then another $25,000 to open up a peoples law center. (17:57) because the loyers were helping us negosheate we were there for a whole week we took it over the young lords and the next day and we did not even plan for food for provitions so today they would havewiped us out that is what they do today they some body took over some other place the other day in Chicago and they would not allow any food in. but you see what happened with us the community came and brought food the net day and then we let them come in so the next day we had three hundred and fifty people and and what happened is that when the police were wanting to attack us they decided to bring in the kids not us we did not want the kids to come in side but they said no no we are going to bring the kids so that that way they wont attack they wont come in and then the students were in the front of the building the students were our security in front so it was a seminary it was a complex like this it was a big complex we are talking about depaul university and it is today at that time it was called micormic theological seminary so it was a big complex like this and we took over the administration building a three level three story administration building and we were there we lived in there for a week in fact we won all of the demands and I told everybody that ok we can leave now and they went I am not leaving I have an office and no we got to leave (Ha-ha) we got to leave we did not leave but we had fun doing that they had music they had a lot of descution groups nothing but talk everyone was just talking all day and so every one came close by talking and became close and then we won all of the demands and we thretone to burn down the liberary because they were thretining to come in so we said we are going to go take over the liberary and then we are going to burn it down if we have to burn it down we don’t care that night is when they called us for the meeting “cough excuse me” that night is when they called us for the meeting but about two oclock in the morning and they said what what ever demands you wantwe will sign we will agree to your demands they had a little we had just read your demands and if thoughs are your demands then we will give you all of the demands you ask and I sayed ok so than the next day we were but I remember having press conferenses every day on top (Ha-ha) of the thing they had a little window sill that we would have press conferences out of there is a picture of that some were there is a picture but I have it some were but anyway so that is I don’t remember were we were at there a tangent I guess. ROBERTSON: (Ha-ha) Yea its like your saying coming from that level of street corner talk to political standing. JIMENEZ: How much time do we have left. ROBERTSON: Well we have as much time as we need. JIMENEZ: Ok Page 25 �ROBERTSON: As far as the questions. I was curious, I mean like you were saying, born in Puerto Rico, never really knowing it to much coming hear like you said when you were two years old and just moving around as much as you have like what are essential elements for you to consider some place home? JIMENEZ: Well my home is been Chicago that has been my home but my home is also but it does not exist any more I mean linken Park does not exist anymore I really don’t know when I was fifteen years old I went and stayed for about a year in Puerto Rico and and that was I was put on the plan in handcuffs and sent to Puerto Rico they were trying to deport me because I was the leader of the young lords and I had got some kind of case were we broke in to a house or something at the time and and I was not even good at that but that was something from the gang days and anyway I was still a juvenile and we will either put you hear and I was fourteen or something we will put you in a sharaten and shareten was a juvenile prison until your twenty one like juveniles htat have commited murders or something would go there or dangerous criminals they thought that I was a dangerous criminal or I don’t know I was never the fighter Orlando was the fighter in the group I was more always the organizer but Orlando never wanted to lead so I was the leader of the group. (12:48) but anyway so my mother said that I don’t want my son to go to jail till he was twenty one years old I will send him to Puerto Rico but I was balling I was crying I did not want to go but they took us in a pady wagon from the jail to the airport and at the airport they watched us from up above ant they let me talk to my parents and they walked me to the door and I I was that was when I started crying cuz I could not control myself cuz I did not know were I was going I’m like cheradin I knew were I was going and I will find friends who are there in jail I mean it is a life of jail so people but in Puerto Rico I didn’t know anybody or I thought I didn’t know anybody once I got there my uncle who met me he had come back and forth to Chicago several times so I did know him and other uncles and ants that had come back and fourth because we are like a shudle culture so we travel back and fourth all the time but I did not know that at first so but I went there at first and right away they said gangster from Chicago alcapone (Ha-ha) right away that was what everyone was thinking so but I remember hanging out with the priest because he was the only guy that I could talk to in English and I remember smiling because my grandmother would ask me stuff and I would just smile because I did not know the heck what she was saying and my grandfather woud get mad he would say he knows he knows he is just pretending that kind of thing but he was the backwards guy my father was bad he was wors but he was the one who tought me about the country and stuff like that I would hang out with him and go up to him on the mountain because the farm was a mountain the farm was not flat land it was on a mountain all of Puerto Rico is like that it is all hilly so the farms are all hlly and stuff like that so you have to climb and it is good because you climb to the top and there is fresh airy cool fresh air (10:37) when you go to the bottom it is all hot and but I got to know slowly I even went with one pare of shoes and had to save them for like Sunday so I walked around like what do you call it huckel berry fin is that with out shoes I mean I walked around that is what we did at that time we could not people could not afford shoes and that so they would save there shoes for like Sunday and that but I hung around witht the prist and I remembered I did not get in to any real big truble all though I did steal his hourse (Ha-ha) and his jeep one time because I fell in love with this girl in another bouyo another part of Puerto Rico and I was hanging out with and I was not trying to steel it I was just trying to barrow it (Ha-ha) butthat is what guys do when they are young and in love. So I I took his hourse one day and the jeep and then every one in the hole the thing is that every one goes to church on suday so if you do Page 26 �not go to church on Sunday you have to hide you don’t let anyone know that you are not at church cuz its like a country and its just one church and every body for miles away you can see form all the hils so we would go I remember cause he made me go to confection in front of everybody and that kind of stuff and that but he became like a friend of mine he got me a job in a in a hard wear store a ferreta they call it and I remember I met a guy from New York that was helping me because I would just sit there and stand in the front counter and people would come there and ask me something like a nail or something and I would not know but hten they ask me for something like a fouset and I right away I would have to go to my friend from new york whats this mean calesa what is he saying but I learned Spanish I had to learn Spanish that way and I even learned the song and stuff like that and in Christmas time that’s a big holiday in Puerto Rico the the three kings but it because of the American culture it starts like on crismas eve and then it last till January six which is the day of the three kings and everyone goes house to house and there like trubidors so they like sing and they improvise and so all my uncles and stuff like that they know how to improvise and before they had radio that was the way that they that was there music after they work in the fields all day they would come back and at night time and I learned it from my mom from researching her and at knighting like that my brothers and that we would just hang out on the purch and the vatey the yard ike hear like the yard hear they were not that big but they would there was a clearance because the rest was jungle you are talking about a tropical place so there was a little clearing in the front called the batay and they would sing there music there that was there radio that was how they relaxed at night and stuff like that but today it is only used mainly at Christmas time but before it was used for any holiday if you die you get a batranda they call it if you a birthday you get a bathranda wedding baptism whatever you get a bathranda but now it is just mainly done for Christmas for Christmas time and stuff like that but it is they are really celebrating the the three kings verses santa clouse and in fact they have an improvisation were one guy( 6:52) would say well I believe in Santa clause and the other would say no I am Puerto Rican I believe in the Three Kings but they are both Puerto Ricans but because we believe in both because of the influences but that type of music my uncles that I grew up with hear even though I did not grow up in Puerto Rico I grew up with that kind of music here for Christmas we would get together the family and we would sing thoughs songs and then and believe me I have some uncles that are pretty good at improvising and they would I remember one time we went to this house one of our ants house and they had just finished painting the house I mean you could smell the paint and so they come to the door and they start with whatever and they would start singing and they would say what a beautiful house it has such nice furniture and stuff like that and the walls must have been painted by the brush of pecaso (Ha-ha) so then it so then everyone had to rhyme with that at the end they would be they would sing a song and the last vers was it was done with the brush of Picasso so I mean they that was how it works that music that kind of music but it was great music I mean its also n the web there is a bunch of websites and stuff on there on the YouTube and stuff like that but yea we grew up with so I learned a little bit about the culture and I came back and I remember the young lords sweter cause I came back before around the year o yea I came back around the year that my father comes and the first thing he does is that the tetarus the tetarus are the riffraff’s of the neighborhood and I was one of them and he was one of them everyone from there in that section growing up became one of them so its like a gang but it’s a community gang so everyone knows them nobody worried about them (Ha-ha) but they are always stealing the eggs or something but no one pays attention to them they all talk and they all scape goat them like they scape goat gangs here but they Page 27 �scape goat them but they are all kids so they cant really hate them and every single one of them would snake out there so there really all really part all the men are apart of the thing (Ha-ha) ROBERTSON: (Ha-ha) JIMENEZ: And they would hang out in front of the store and look at the women and look at every one but anyway I remember but they would do serves to because my because the people that would come and visiting they would take there suit case and carry them to make them feel important for a tip and I remember my father he is over here coming to pick me up(3:57) and to visit and he hadn’t visited me all year but here he is coming to visit me but at least he’s I’m happy because he is going to take me back to Chicago so then I remember right away the titas they would carry his suit case and yea no problem and he is showing off and I am going I don’t know pops you got to slow down on the money because he starts buying everyone drinks and you got to slow down the money and I’m looking at his pants pocket like he is half way drunk he’s got his pants on and there is food stamps so the next day I tell him what are you doing showing off and you got food stamps (Ha-ha) so I said and he did not even have a job at that time my mother was the one that was working and he was getting well fair so that was the vasod that Puerto Ricans hear that was a contradiction that I was seeing how our people were acting and how it was not real how our people were playing the lottery but telling me that I cant do certain things that are not legal I said you’re not legal you are selling the numbers and what I am saying you’re your selling the numbers you’re playing the Spanish bingo which is not legal now I don’t know why that shouldn’t be legal but because they play it at the churches they play bingo at the churches so I mean that is another contradiction right but the Spanish bingo was illegal I don’t know why I mean they just they just did it for a quarter or a dime or whatever not a big thing but there were so many contradictions that you see and stuff like that then you go to school and then they are teaching you one thing and how even coming here to grand valley so and one class were they show us pictures and they say what does this person look like and everyone goes all right they had a picture of a hippy and they got a migrant worker and something like that and they go well he is a losser and this is in one of our classes and I’m going like I did not say nothing but I’m thinking to myself that guy looks like my dad how are you going to call my dad a losser he is not a loser I mean he did not have any money but he was a good parent I mean he what I am saying I mean ROBERTSON: Yea they were generalizing JIMENEZ: Yea he was a little macho and stuff like that but then(1:27) my mom had a little thing for the macho (Ha-ha) she says that a macho is a guy who can raise a family (Ha-ha) be a man he’s not he is not a macho he is not a man when he would get smart she would put him down ROBERTSON: (Ha-ha) JIMENEZ: I mean it was a part of the culture thing because they also labeled macho to to mean for Spanish people and it is in all cultures and stuff like that so he was a little macho by culture he thought he was the big shot but he did not works she would put him down like I am the bread winner you don’t work you are on well fair (Ha-ha) so I mean there were so many contradictions and and that came in to play when we got in to the young lords and stuff like that and but we got in to the young lords we like I Page 28 �said we were learning from the panthers and stuff like that and we needed the whole question of selfdetermination and the whole the whole the main reason that we started was the displacement of our community we were being kicked out but then we related that to is this thing going out are we recording? ROBERTSON: I am kind of queries yea JIMENEZ: Oh ok actually the other stuff you can probable get out of the Wikipedia thing (Ha-ha) I gave you stuff that is not on there END OF INTERVIEW Page 29 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a554612e6ea23035344655137db3604.mp3 fa9084f027e31f5aac64e45563d48a7f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Jimenez_Jose Title A name given to the resource Jose Jimenez audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jimenez, Jose Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Robertson, Timothy Hood, Ashlie Perez, Angelica Description An account of the resource Jose Jimenez was born in Caguas, Puerto Rico and lived in Chicago. He discusses his experiences as the leader of the Young Lords and an activist for Latin Americans. Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-24 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d2fafae31a1865622f9098c49424e475.pdf 0aa45ed4e8309475f3d307b104fd8a68 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 3/15/2012 Runtime: 01:14:00 Biography and Description Oral history and interview of Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on March 15, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban �renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript Jimenez_Jose_1 Q1: All right. First off, if you wouldn’t mind just introducing yourself and telling us where you’re from. JOSE JIMENEZ: I’m José Jiménez, Cha-Cha Jiménez, from the Young Lords, founder of the Young Lords organization. Q1: Can you tell us a little bit about the Young Lords? JJ: Well, the Young Lords were a neighborhood youth group in Lincoln Park, Chicago back in the ’60s and ’70s, and then, late ’60s, 1968, we transformed ourselves into a human rights movement for self-determination for Puerto Rico and for neighborhood control. We were in the middle of -- the neighborhood was being displaced by the city that wanted to expand downtown and clean up the Lakefront area, which is where we were located at the [00:01:00] time. So, we were kinda caught in the middle by accident, and we were just trying to defend our hood. We looked at it like that. Although the majority of the people thought it was a good idea to rehab the housing, we just felt that they were taking away our community from us. So, those things, and the things that were going on in the country at that time -- the anti-war movement. There was, the late ’60s, the whole revolution movement, and it happened right there in Lincoln Park also with the Democratic Convention. And so, all those things together and what was going on in Puerto Rico, our people were trying to fight for self-determination 1 �there, all those things together contributed to our development into a human rights group. Q1: What was it originally that drew you to the Young Lords? JJ: [00:02:00] As the gang or as a political --? Q1: Well, initially. So, when it was still, first, a gang. JJ: Well, you know, when we first became a gang, there was several things that were going on. We had just got displaced from the neighborhood that Puerto Ricans called La Clark on Chicago Avenue and LaSalle -- Chicago Avenue and Clark. And so, we had just been displaced and pushed into the Lincoln Park neighborhood. The Lincoln Park neighborhood was an ethnic community. It was a very segregated community, but segregated by -- you know, Polish [were two or three blocks away?], we’d see Polish people, or Italian people, or German people, Gypsies, hillbillies, and Puerto Ricans that were coming in. And so, we were the new kids on the block at that [00:03:00] time, and we were being harassed by the other gangs that existed. At that time, the gangs were not like the gangs of today. Those were more territorial gangs, and based on culture and ethnicity. And so, we started getting robbed, you know, lunch money taken away from us. We started getting chased from school, and we started growing. There were more Puerto Ricans starting to move in. So, as we expanded, we started thinking about protection for ourselves. And so, the Young Lords, there were already some social clubs that were Puerto Rican that had been connected with the church, or individuals organized, like, sports leagues and that. They were older than we were. We were the younger [00:04:00] ones. And so, they were 2 �concerned more with playing softball and things like that, and then, later on, they turned into gangs, but we started -- from the very beginning, we wanted to look for territory. You know, we just wanted to have some kind of say-so in our area. So, we were going to other neighborhoods, and we would pick fights with people just to get a reputation. So, we’d go into an Italian neighborhood, hillbilly neighborhood, Irish neighborhood, and just taunt people until we were fighting with them. And then, if we won, then we could brag about that at the school that most of us were going to, Waller High School at the time, or [Arnold?] Elementary. So, [00:05:00] basically, that’s how we began. Again, we’re being harassed by other people that were more organized. They already had gangs. And so, we saw a need to begin our own gang for protection, and, you know, some of us even saw our parents beaten up, our uncles and fathers beaten up also, ’cause they were young too. I mean, they were in their twenties, early twenties, and that -- maybe up to thirties. It was just a young community at that time, and we were kinda breaking ground, and the kids saw a lot of things that were going on. Like I said, we were being chased around. And so, that’s how we originated as a gang, for protection and for recognition, and we went like that till the community became primarily Puerto Rican [00:06:00] at the time. People just kept move-- but that was a natural movement, I guess, that took place, where, later on, it was more done with the city and with the urban renewal programs, and, you know, was unnatural at that time. And, in fact, not only Puerto Ricans were evicted, but Italians, Irish, and Germans, all the people that 3 �we were going to school with at the time that we were fighting. We, later on, came together to try to defend the community from city hall. Q1: Do you want to move on or?(inaudible)? JJ: Probably going into the political stuff now. Q1: [00:07:00] ’Cause I wanted to touch on -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- Q1: -- a little more -- JJ: -- the gang. Q1: -- how -- just, I mean, kind of the idea that you felt you had to defend yourself to have just a better quality of life. Like -- JJ: Well, we -- Q1: -- ’cause I know, for you, you were saying that there was a changing point, where you realized that fighting wasn’t so much the answer, and you had to search something else out. I mean -- JJ: Well, you know, we were looking -- we originally began like that, like a gang, but, as time changed and the country was changing also, we began, also, to experience -- that was just simple prejudice, where we didn’t even look at it as prejudice. We looked at it more like one gang against another gang, but, in a way, it was subtle, you know. [00:08:00] But our parents were experiencing discrimination. I remember running home. My mother wanted to find an apartment, and I had talked to an Italian family, and they said, “We have an empty apartment,” and I ran home and told my mom, “Hey, there’s an apartment over here, not too far,” and she was all excited, and got dressed, and everything, 4 �and we went to see the Italian family, and, when they saw my mother, they said, “We don’t have any apartments.” To me, being light-skinned, that kind of opened up my eyes a little bit more, that I knew something was fishy, that something was funny there. It happened where our parents were like pilgrims, you know, moving into Chicago from Puerto Rico and being -- in Puerto Rico, like [00:09:00] 97 percent of the people were Catholic. And so, they’re coming into Chicago, and they see that some of the youth are going into gangs, and some of the parents also are having problems with alcohol or whatever. And so, they come together as a church, as a Catholic church, to try to change those things, to try to improve the community, to develop the community. And so, they come together, but then, they go into the Catholic church, and the Catholic church is saying, “We’ll give you space. We’ll give you --” All they wanted was Spanish Mass, Mass to be celebrated in Spanish. They said, “Well, we’ll give you Spanish Mass, but you have to do it in the hall. You can’t do it at the regular church because some of the people there don’t want you there.” But, you know, our parents didn’t -- they were not concerned with that. I mean, later on is when we found this out. [00:10:00] They were more concerned with Spanish Mass. So, they had to organize. They had to go door-to-door in Lincoln Park, and they would do Rosaries in different people’s homes. They organized themselves. They had retreats, church retreats. They formed the Caballeros de San Juan and the Damas de María, Daughters of Mary. So, it was like the Knights of Columbus, that type of organization, so they began to form organization. They form a credit union. They had an annual play of the Crucifixion of Jesus that they participated 5 �in. They had dances. You know, so, they involved the family. And very good dances, very well organized. Dinners, annual dinners that they had. They had picnics, where they would -- 10 to [00:11:00] 15 busloads would go to Oconomowoc, Wisconsin on picnics and that -- or to Libertyville, Illinois. So, our parents began to organize, and Lincoln Park became a barrio or a community, a Latino community. It was one of the first Puerto Rican communities in Chicago, well organized -- council number three, even though they were -- council number three ’cause there was -- council number one was on 63rd Street, and council number two was Holy Name Cathedral, where we had just been displaced from. So, they became well organized, a community. They cared for the youth. When the youth were getting in trouble, they started -- hey, you know, we can have dances, and make money, and still work with our children. So, they didn’t depend on the city. There was no political power [00:12:00] at the time. They created their own political power, their own base. In fact, the first Puerto Rican Parade Committee or first Puerto Rican Parade in Chicago came from Lincoln Park, from that community. There was a lot of bands at that time, youth bands, orchestras, that were organized in Lincoln Park -- bilingual. Some were primarily in Spanish, Spanish music, and some were the Motown type of music at that time, but that originated, again, in Lincoln Park and spread later. So, you know, we see this community. We grew up with that. We participated with our parents. You know, we went to their Rosaries, to the funerals, to the baptisms. Some of us were confirmed. Our parents had catechism classes. My mother had catechism classes [00:13:00] in our living room. That’s what I mean. We were 6 �like pilgrims at the time. And so, we see a community being organized, a community beginning to make a name for itself, a community that is becoming more stable, and, all of a sudden, the city of Chicago decides that they need that area. It’s prime real estate. It’s 15 minutes from the Loop downtown. It’s like five minutes from Lake Michigan, and lakefront property is prime real estate. Near downtown property is prime real estate, and that’s where we were at. We were located there because, when we first came to the city, many of our people were -- they used to joke around, called “grabando discos.” “Grabando discos” means making records. What they meant by that was that they were washing [00:14:00] dishes. So, that was their occupation. So, they were making records by washing dishes. So, meaning by that that many of the Puerto Ricans that came to Chicago at that time, in the ’50s and ’60s, were working downtown at the hotels, you know, some as maids for some of the rich people that lived near downtown, personal maids and that. But a community arose from that, and the city wanted that land, wanted to expand downtown, wanted these -- there was what they called at that time white flight to the suburbs. Many people were afraid of the Puerto Ricans ’cause they were new. They were odd to them and that. So, they wanted to flee to the suburbs to get away from Blacks and from Latinos at that time, and from poor whites, [00:15:00] you know, [or hillbillies running around there also?], and people didn’t want to be around poor people, basically. In fact, it was more income-oriented that was the problem, but, in a way, if you go today, what you see is it’s segregated. There is no integration. It’s primarily white, and I’m light-skinned myself, but it’s primarily white people with money that 7 �live in that community. And so, the poor have been wiped out. You can count them on the fingers of your hand, the poor that live in Lincoln Park. Of course, there’s some that work there, but they don’t live there. So, that was the answer to white flight, was an inner city suburb, which is what the city was calling Lincoln Park, [00:16:00] an inner city suburb, at that time. [Got a little racist in there?] (inaudible). Q1: It’s all right. I kind of feel like there’s almost a transition of anger a little bit here, between how -- just between the different races that were trying to live in Chicago, and then this movement towards kind of an anger towards the actual city. JJ: Yeah. Exactly. There was a little anger of people trying to get control. More of a -- trying to control their own lives, their own destiny at the time. The African American community was coming from the south at that time. They were moving from the south. The Appalachian white community, the hillbilly community, was moving from the mountain range in the East Coast. So, they were coming [00:17:00] into Chicago at that time, and Puerto Ricans and Mexicans were also moving into the city. So, you know, you have these new minorities coming there, and then you have the ethnic minorities that were there before. And so, there’s a big change going on, and change, you know, that destabilization, I think, is what created the gang problem there. I mean, gangs are always there, but it’s what created the problematic gangs, [to contributed to that?] and poverty, because we’re a lot of poor people living together in one area, which is what Lincoln Park was. But, you know, Lincoln Park was a very -- although it was segregated every 8 �three or four blocks, you can say it was diverse. You can say it was, in a way, integrated because, every three or four blocks, you would see a different [00:18:00] minority. But Chicago in the ’50s was a very segregated city, where African Americans were living on the West Side and South Side, and the white community was on the North Side, and Latinos were kind of in the middle, near downtown, at that time, so it was a very segregated city -- not to say that has changed much because, now, those minorities are on the outskirts, on the periphery of the city and in the suburbs. They’ve been pushed to the suburbs, and the Lakefront and downtown is primarily upper class white community that exists there today. But it wasn’t done for -- it was done racially. I mean, I’m not gonna say it wasn’t -- you know, I remember when I would get a haircut when I was younger in Lincoln Park, and people didn’t know that I was Spanish, and they would be talking about how Mayor [00:19:00] Daley was not gonna allow Blacks north of North Avenue. I mean, hearing things like that. So, it was done racially. I mean, that’s who was in power at that time, but it was also done economically. I mean, it was done for profit. It was done to advance the democratic machine, you know, to keep Mayor Daley in power. In Puerto Rico, every time there’s an election, they get machetes, and they cut the grass, you know, the little trails, the little [cow trails?], and they make them look like roads. I remember, when I was younger, they used to do that. It’s sort of what Mayor Daley did in Chicago, but he did it with housing. He did it, you know, fixing [each?] neighborhood and -- be he used that to keep himself elected. So, it’s a 9 �political thing that people do at that [00:20:00] time, and that’s what was done in Lincoln Park. (coughs) Excuse me. Q1: So, do you think some of the poverty was result of lack of opportunity, or just too many people within the area? JJ: Well, no. A lot of poor people that were coming in and no services for the -- no welcoming committee for the poor people. You have all these people moving in, and, instead of accepting them, you’re trying to push them out. You’re saying that there is the blighted area. We need to fix this area. And so, instead of providing for the youth, like an after school program so that they’re occupied, busy, supervised, because, you know, both of their parents had to work, so they couldn’t supervise them just to survive. So, instead of, for the city, welcoming people in, the new immigrants [00:21:00] in, what they were doing was to displace them, just push them to another neighborhood and just push them away to get rid of them. So, urban renewal became urban removal of poor people. They were just being kicked out. No attention was being given to these new immigrants, and these new immigrants, Puerto Ricans, are United States citizens. They fought in every war that the United States has fought in since they became connected to the United States, since they were invaded by the United States in 1898. They were made citizens 1917 for World War I, so they fought in World War I, World War II, in Korea, in Vietnam. They’re fighting today in the Middle East. So, you know, these are citizens of the United States, and they were being treated [00:22:00] like illegal aliens and like they treat undocumented workers at that time. I’m just saying that they were treated incorrectly, not as 10 �citizens and not welcomed to this country, and they were not the only ones. You know, African Americans were being treated, other ethnic minorities were also being treated the same way. The urban renewal program that was supposed to be geared to helping renovate poor areas and uplifting communities was basically a for-profit scheme that we know now today that the banks were involved, and the politicians want to blame the banks, and the banks want to blame the politicians, but they were both in cahoots with each other. It’s part of the [00:23:00] dynasty of Chicago. You know, so many people in Chicago that have been put in jail for corruption. If you look at it, most of them were -- it was connected to the housing situation in Chicago. But, today, we blame the youth for all these problems, and they need to take responsibility, but city hall did not do anything to help the youth or to help the new immigrants, which is where most gangs originated, from new immigrants that no one is paying attention to. So, in Lincoln Park, had we paid attention to them, there probably wouldn’t be the supergangs that we have today. They probably would have just been neighborhood little kids playing, doing some petty little crime here and there that could have been resolved, but, instead, now, what we have [00:24:00] are drug enterprises and supergangs because the city not only did not pay attention to the youth, but they displaced them. They discriminated against them. They scapegoated them. And so, the Young Lords were unique in the fact that not only individuals changed, but an entire gang changed and began to work -- we set up, you know, a daycare center so that the women of the group can participate in what we were doing. We modeled ourselves after some of the 11 �Panther programs. So, we had a free breakfast for children program. We had a free health clinic. We had a dental clinic. We had a Puerto Rican cultural center. We began a little militant because, again, we didn’t have any [00:25:00] role models. Our parents were involved in the church, and here we are, becoming more and more militant. So, we didn’t have any role models. We just had to fend for ourselves, but we didn’t want -- you know, our parents were being discriminated, but they were quiet and silent, and we had grown up here. And so, we knew we had rights, and we were trying to defend our rights, and that’s more or less how we began. So, we held the first large demonstrations in Chicago in terms of the Puerto Rican community, in terms of the Latino community, where we had 10,000 people, up to 100,000 people in 1983, when Harold Washington, the first African American mayor, was elected, and we played a major role in that election. There was 100,000 people in June of 1983 at Humboldt Park, and I was the only one on stage [00:26:00] representing the Young Lords and introducing the newly elected mayor. We gave out 30,000 buttons with “Tengo Puerto Rico En Mi Corazon, I have Puerto Rico in my heart,” because the Young Lords stood for self-determination for Puerto Rico, and also, you know, self-determination [for?] neighborhood empowerment. It was a simple philosophy that we had. We fought against police brutality. We marched against police brutality, but our main concern was more the community. We were not just thinking about ourselves. We knew that the police were -- there was a lot of repression on our group, but we were more concerned with trying to set up programs for the community, trying to save the community from being -- today, 12 �they call it gentrification or that. We call it more -- we needed to control [00:27:00] our own neighborhood, our own destiny at the time. Q1: So, could you actually describe the moment where you realized that the gang activity just wasn’t the right way to go and that this more political front could [better?] --? JJ: I mean, there were changes that were going on with a lot of people at that time, but, personally, I had become the leader of the gang in the mid-’60s, and then I [had gone?] into jail. You know, mostly, that’s why I was the leader. I was going in and out of jail and that, and I began to do organizing within the group and that and tried to keep the group together because, you know, groups have internal fights also. So, I was the one that would keep everyone together and thinking Young Lords first before [00:28:00] our little, petty differences. And so, I remember organizing a month of Soul Dances, where, every Saturday, every weekend, we met at St. Michael’s, and we -- was the first time that we were on the radio. You know, we bought a advertisement on the radio, and we filled up the gymnasium for four weeks straight. So, it was a month of soul. We got this other gang called the Blackstone Rangers. They had a dance group and African dancers. Remember bringing them and some Spanish bands to our dances. We had learned from our parents, the Knights of St. John and the Hijas de María, and how they organized their dances, so we did the same thing also. You know, my mother was pretty active in the church at that time. And I had -- myself, personally, was thinking even of going into the priesthood. She had taken me out of [00:29:00] Newberry School because I was getting into fights and, because 13 �she was involved in the church, they were able to put me at St. Teresa’s for sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. So, all that and my mother preaching to me every day made me want to think about going into the priesthood, but, you know, it was difficult with poverty. [I ended up?] throwing a snowball at a bus where the pastor was in, and so I got punished, and I couldn’t go that year, and, actually, it was a blessing, anyway, in disguise, but that year that I didn’t go was when I got deeper into the Young Lords gang, where I got deported to Puerto Rico because they were looking for gang leaders at that time. So, I was put in handcuffs on a plane and sent back to Puerto Rico versus going to jail till I was 21 years old, but I actually wanted to go to jail because I didn’t know Puerto Rico. I was crying when they put me on the [00:30:00] plane. I thought I was going to a foreign country. The only country I knew was Lincoln Park, Chicago. Anyway, I came back from Puerto Rico. I called myself El Cagüeño. I changed my name from Cha-Cha to El Cagüeño. Cagüeño is Caguas, the town in Puerto Rico where I was born ’cause I came when I was two years old. But, anyway, I came back after a year. I kinda snuck back in. My father came and picked me up, and, now, I have a little culture in me. I had learned even some jíbaro music in Puerto Rico that I really appreciated my culture. I didn’t appreciate it when I was there. When I was there, I actually wanted Puerto Rico to become a state because all I remember was the United States while I was there, but, when I came back here, it was the opposite thing. I only remembered -- was Puerto Rico, so, now, I wanted the Puerto Rican culture to be brought out and all that. So, you know, we had gang sweaters, and I put my name, El [00:31:00] Cagüeño, and I became -- I 14 �was still the president of the group. But, anyway, the gang was kind of going downhill, like most gangs go through phases. And so, the gang was getting into drugs, and crime, and all the other stuff that gangs do when they’re being destroyed, when they’re destroying themselves. It was the Vietnam War era also. And so, many of the Young Lords were going to Vietnam or coming out of Vietnam, getting married. The gang was falling apart, and I’m trying to keep the gang together, but I’m involved in drugs myself. So, I went to jail for possession of drugs, and I was given a 60-day sentence, but, because, right away, when you go to jail, you hang out with other Puerto Ricans, some -- a Black gang that was there thought that [00:32:00] we were a gang, and we were just Puerto Ricans hanging out. And so, they told the guards that we were trying to escape, and, anyway, they took all the Puerto Ricans. They strip-searched us and put us in maximum security, or the hole. I had just come in, so I had 60 days, so that was -- it was a city jail, the House of Correction, so the most you can do was a year, and I had 60 days, so I had the most of that group of nine people that got put into the hole. And, you know, I’m in the hole. I’m in a cell by myself. I’m on the third level. It’s an old Civil War cell. The catwalk is made out of wood. There’s rats running around, so they have large cats that they allow to live with us so they can get the rats. There’s roaches [hanging?] -- I mean, can you imagine going to jail and having to fight roaches? We had roaches in the jail, [00:33:00] where, basically, it’s summer. It’s hot. There’s no air conditioning, so we’re in our underwear and just hanging onto the bars. I mean, it’s a old Civil War jail cell. And so, I began to read. I hadn’t read since I had been in eighth grade and I 15 �read Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton, which was about a Catholic hermit. Just, I read him only because the books were there. I mean, had it been another book, I probably would have read that one, but I read Thomas Merton. I didn’t really get too much out of it except that he was a hermit, and I’m in the hole, and I feel like a hermit myself. So, now, I want to go to confession. You know, I want to end drugs. I don’t want to be addicted to drugs. And so, I went to confession, and they said, “Well, you’re just trying to get out of your cell, so we’re not going to allow you to see a priest.” So, I talked to the -- I kept sending [00:34:00] messages to the priest, and he finally came to see me in my cell. And so, I went to confession there, and then I felt good, you know, like people, Catholics, feel when they go to confession. They feel real good. I had cleansed myself, my soul, and everything, and I joke about it now, but, I mean, I really took it serious because it was like standing up for your rights because other inmates are taunting you because, “Hey, this guy, Cha-Cha got a priest comin’ up here. He’s crazy.” But I was standing up for what I believed at that time. Again, we were Catholic. My mother had ingrained that in us. So, anyway, after that, I started reading Martin Luther King, and, you know, he’s a religious person. And then, I also read another religious person, Malcolm X. So, I kind of got both sides. I got the peace side, and I [00:35:00] got the Malcolm X talking about revolution, Black revolution, and, you know, there were no Latino books at that time, no Latino role models. And then, I started hearing on the news -- we had a loudspeaker with a radio on that would be blasting 24 hours a day with the old dusties. We didn’t call them oldies [but?] we called them dusties, but there would 16 �be, I mean, real old songs. And so, I would hear that, but, in between, there would be the news, and so I was hearing about the Black Panther Party in Oakland, taking over a courthouse with guns, and I’m going, “These people are crazy,” where, you know, they had different laws in the West Coast. From Chicago, you can’t be walking around in Chicago with guns, but -- not publicly. But, over there, you can walk with rifles, but that’s why they were protesting, because they were changing the laws and that at that [00:36:00] time. But, anyway, that kind of fascinated me a little bit, and I felt, you know, this is what we need to do in the Puerto Rican community. And so, I said, “When I get out of here, that’s what I want to do.” So, I got out, but we had to go through an exoffender program because I had to look for work. I needed employment. I didn’t want to get involved with any more drugs. So, I got -- half a day, we would go to get the GED, and the other -- you know, these were all ex-gang members, [exoffenders?], but we were still gang members, but they called us ex-gang members, but we were all together. We weren’t fighting. We were in school half a day. This was at the Argonne National Laboratory program there, and the other half a day -- so, half the day, we were janitors, and the other half a day, we were at school, getting our GED. So, we had a lot of fun there. [00:37:00] I remember opening up the maintenance room, and there’d be somebody asleep, and we would be stealing the golf carts and driving all over the place. I mean, we were little mischievous people, but we were studying and that. And, in fact, on one of the field trips, the teacher took us to the Democratic Convention so we can be exposed to the current events of the time. About 10 of us went to the 17 �Democratic Convention. We’re all gangbangers, and the hippies are getting beaten up and that, and that kind of affected us because we were used to getting beat up. That was a big thing, and then we’re reading about it in the newspaper. They’re calling it a police riot against the press ’cause the press was also getting beat up at that time. Mayor Daley was talking about -- I mean, later on, when the Black riots, when he was talking about shoot to kill. [00:38:00] You know, when Martin Luther King died, there were riots. So, anyway, even while I was there, I had seen people coming in from the Black riots, and also undocumented workers. Mexican people, which, to us, are our people, were being brought in, and the only crime they were committing was that they were working. So, we’re looking at it -- we’re inmates in jail. We’re criminals, and these people are coming in just because they’re working. They’re bringing them in, and pushing them around, and discriminating against them because they can’t speak any English. So, I mean, I offered to translate, and they said, again, “You just want to get out of your cell.” And I said, “Look. I’ll translate from up here.” So, they let me translate from my cell, and, you know, “Just don’t push them around. You just don’t understand. They don’t speak any English,” ’cause they were being pushed around and smiling. Ask ’em a question, they would smile ’cause they didn’t know what the officer [00:39:00] was asking them. But, anyway, all those things were kinda contributing to my enlightenment in terms of -- I don’t know if it’s enlightenment but in terms of seeing our people being discriminated and in terms of seeing a need to organizing something similar to the Black Panther Party but in the Puerto Rican community. I was fascinated with the Black 18 �Panther Party because, to me, they were like an army, and I felt that that’s what we needed at that time, was like an army and that. They started that way, but later on, they also were involved in primarily organizing, and I learned that later as I became more involved, that they were concerned with organizing the community for change. Not just the military aspect of it, but also the [mass line?] of organizing [00:40:00] the community with programs like the breakfast for children program, the health clinic, sickle cell anemia concerns, women’s rights. They stood for gay rights, gay liberation. Environmental movement, all those movements were right around that time that the Black Panther Party worked on. In Chicago, we made a coalition with Fred Hampton, and it was called the Rainbow Coalition. Later on, Jesse Jackson adopted that name, which is fine, but it originated from Fred Hampton, Chairman Fred Hampton of the Chicago Black Panther Party, and it was the originators that [were with?] the Young Lords, the young preachers, and the Black Panthers, and then it spread nationwide. So, all these things -- you know, a lot of movement going on in Chicago, a lot of stuff. [00:41:00] And then, we had no choice. Although the Black Panther Party’s main issue at that time was police abuse, police brutality, they did have a Ten-Point Program. Our main issue was not our choice. It was being displaced from our community, so our main issue was a housing issue, and it still is today. I mean, today, the Humboldt Park area in Chicago is still being displaced, and we’ve been displaced out of other cities, like in New York, and other areas, and in Puerto Rico. It’s a way to destabilize the community and to take control by the city of those areas. (inaudible). 19 �Q1: Well, what was one of the major acts that the new political group strived for in order to help with this whole displacement issue? JJ: Well, the first act that we did was -- [00:42:00] I was standing on the corner, and this lady named Pat Devine was from the Concerned Citizens of Lincoln Park. They had been organizing poor people to fight against urban renewal. They weren’t organizing Latinos. They were just organizing poor people. And so, remember, she was on the corner of Halsted and Dickens, which used to be our neighborhood, but it was displaced, but we still hung around there ’cause a new hot dog stand had moved to the other side of the street, and, in Chicago at that time, if you were a gang, you belonged to a hot dog stand. I mean, that was your neighborhood hangout. We even had credit and everything at our hot dog stand on Halsted and Dickens. But, anyway, she was there, and this guy, [Benny?], was in uniform. He was [00:43:00] on leave from Vietnam, and I was talking to him. He’s a Young Lord, and I’m talking to him, and I’m excited to see him. I hadn’t seen him in a while. I had just got out of jail. And Pat Devine just starts telling him, “You know, you kill all the Vietnamese people. What’s wrong with you? You should be ashamed of yourself.” I say, “What are you talking about, you white B?” You know what I’m saying? I was very annoyed by her. I said, “You’re trying to kick us out of our neighborhood.” And, anyway, she got into a fight, and then she says, you know, “You’re a communist.” I called her a communist. She says, “Oh, yeah? Well, I’m proud to be one, then.” And I’m going like, “This lady’s crazy.” You know what I’m saying? She’s a communist. We got into an argument, but the guys intervene and stop this arguing and that, 20 �[00:44:00] but I was convinced that she was one of the people that was kicking us out. I found out from her later, as we spent some time talking -- all of us went to her house and spent some time, and she explained how they were trying to stop urban renewal in that community, and she wanted us to get involved. Well, the other people were not that interested, but I got interested ’cause I had just come out of jail, and I had seen the changes in two months. I mean, you see people get their possessions thrown out on the street. The streets that were twoways became one-ways. The fire departments and police departments were all being renovated. All the hospitals and institutions were being renovated and expanded. And so, this all happened, like, in a two-month period, this was all going on. And so, I could see the difference. It was like a whole new area at the time. So, she asked me to bring people to a meeting, and I says, “Well, [00:45:00] you know, how many people can you bring to a meeting?” I said, “I can bring you thousands ’cause I’m the leader of the Young Lords street gang. I can bring you thousands.” Well, I began to ask people to come to the meeting, and I was getting involved in fights, physical fights, and they were calling me a communist, and I didn’t know anywhere else to organize. All I knew was to organize where we hung out at, in the street corners, and in the bars, and places like that, and parties and that, so I was going into -- when I couldn’t get enough Young Lords, I was going to the other groups, like the Black Eagles, and the Paragons, and the Flaming Arrows, and Imperial Aces [and Queens?], Trojans, Continentals, all these different groups that were in Lincoln Park at the time. I was going to their neighborhoods and getting into fistfights with them. When they 21 �saw me, they’d [00:46:00] go, “Oh, here he comes again. Here comes that crazy nut trying to talk to us, some crazy stuff.” I mean, I became obsessed with trying to fight against urban renewal, and I was trying to bring people to that meeting, but I wasn’t having a good -- I wasn’t making too much progress. In fact, half of the Young Lords quit. They didn’t want anything to do with me anymore because I was talking about political stuff and politics, you know. So, anyway, on the day of the meeting, I was able to get people from the various groups, just a few representatives from the various groups, and, remember, we met at Dayton and Armitage, which -- we were hanging out there, which, later, was where we took over the church there. But we met there, and we marched from there. We kinda walked from there. I wouldn’t say march. I mean, we kind of -- it looked like we were going to a gang [00:47:00] fight, like we usually did. About 60 of us walked to Larrabee Street, about four, five blocks away, and we entered the building, and there was a display there, and I told people -- I wasn’t educated about urban renewal. I tell them, “You see this display? Look at -- your houses are all empty. That means that they’re gonna destroy your houses. These people are meeting here to kick you out.” It was a meeting of the Community Conservation Council. It was the urban renewal headquarters at that time, and it was in Lincoln Park. And so, we didn’t know then, at that time. But, anyway, the people saw the display. Then, we walked into the meeting, and in the hall, on the stage, were about 10, 12 Americans. There were no Blacks, no Spanish people there, no poor people. In fact, most of them were, like, [00:48:00] developers. Some were members and the audience were members of the Lincoln Park Conservation 22 �Association, and a few people like Pat Devine was there, and some other people, but she hadn’t come with us. We came on our own. She was glad to see us, but, see, our people were not used to -- you know, we were gangs. We were representing different gangs, so our people were not used to -- first of all, we didn’t understand urban renewal, and we were not used to going to meetings. So, all I remember was saying something to the nature of, “This meeting is over. It’s dead. You’re not meeting here no more until you have Black, Latino, and poor white representation, and I remember them looking at me like I’m crazy. So, anyway, to make our point, some of the gang members start picking up chairs and didn’t throw it at the people ’cause we said, “We’re not here to jump on anybody,” [00:49:00] but started just throwing it at windows and stuff like that. Anyway, we ended up -- this guy told me later to use the word “trash.” We trashed the place, but, I mean, we would have probably used a different term then because that’s what we were trying to do. We were trying to tear it up, and then, we went to -- messed up the plumbing. The display was broken in 20 million pieces, and we all walked down and told everybody, “Go straight home. That way, we don’t get arrested.” So, you know, we had about 60 people, and everybody goes home. Nobody got arrested. The next day, we were giving each other five. It was like a victory and stuff like that that we did. So, that was the first action that we did, was -- some people would call it militant today. It was just a natural -- we didn’t know what we were doing, so that’s what we did. So, that was followed by what we call an organized riot because there had been so many -- a few riots [00:50:00] already, but we had people from Vietnam [in that 23 �school?]. We say, “We don’t want to destroy our community. We just want to get the stores that don’t belong here, that are not Puerto Rican -- we want them wiped out. So, we had an organized riot. Some of the Vietnam veterans synchronized their watches, and everybody took windows and bricks from all the way from Larrabee to Racine and Armitage, and we busted all the windows that were not Puerto Rican. And, the next day, they were all boarded up, and we’re giving each other five again. It’s another victory. We got one victory after the other. We went to the real estate office, and we picketed because it’s the local mafia -- we called him Fat Larry later -- had put a submachine gun on a Puerto Rican store owner that was renting [00:51:00] and didn’t have money for the rent. So, he didn’t want to go to the police because he knew the police were connected with the local mafia, and the reason we knew he was a local mafia was my father used to sell the numbers, Orlando’s father used to sell the numbers, and they used to turn the money in to the local mafia, so that’s what ran the numbers game in that neighborhood. So, everybody knew that they were Italian, they were the local mafia, whatever. Not that the mafia’s only Italian. (coughs) Excuse me. I messed it up. [I can stop?]. Q1: You’re fine. (inaudible) take a break. JJ: Okay. Yeah, I think I need (inaudible). Q1: Yeah. Yeah, you’re free to take a drink. Q2: (inaudible). JJ: But, anyway, I was -- let me finish. Q1: Okay. 24 �JJ: I don’t know if I can or not. No, let’s take a break. Q1: Okay. Yeah. JJ: Yeah. [00:52:00] It’s like dust. The dust gets in my -- Q1: Yeah. Q2: Yeah. JJ: (inaudible). How much time do you want to go with this? Q2: There is -- Q1: We’ve gone for almost -- it’s like 50 minutes right now. JJ: [Did you shut mine off?]? Q1: Fifty-three minutes. JJ: But do you want to go to 50 -- (break in recording) Q1: So, you’re rolling. JJ: So, you know, we knew who they were. They were the local mafia. At that time, they were organized, and they didn’t want to really create any disturbance because they were reaping profits from the real estate. They were involved in the real estate market. There were three offices, three real estate offices on one small block, so they were making a lot of money on the real estate. So, anyway, we picketed his office. [Yeah, he put a?] [00:53:00] submachine gun on us, and then I remember I didn’t know what to do at the time. I just put my hand in my pocket like I had something, but he went in the back office [with a window on?], and he called the police. The police came, and, instead of searching him, he was locked up in the office, although he left his partner on the front desk, scared, 25 �and we told his partner, “We’re not here to create any problems.” But we had some photographers with us, and they started taking photos. So, what we did was, the next week, we took all those photos and put them on the front page of a local newspaper that we produced, and we spread about 20,000 copies all through the neighborhood. So, now, the community is riled up. Our parents are upset. The Caguas Social Club, were [00:54:00] my father and other -- uncles and that, other people, would go, they started taking it on their own to break his windows. We were not breaking his windows. So, his windows went from big picture windows to little cube windows, basically, and that was the parents doing that, not us. So, you know, the community was getting there. We started uniting with other groups, like the North Side Cooperative Ministry, the Concerned Citizens of Lincoln Park, the SDS, Students for a Democratic Society, Rising Up Angry, different organizations. I mean, the churches were all involved with the Young Lords and that at that time. So, now, we’re broadening ourselves, and we’re forming the Lincoln Park Poor People’s Coalition, and I was elected president of that, [as being?] with the Young Lords. Also, we were connected with the Waller [00:55:00] High School Planning Committee, and I was elected vice president of that. You know, keep in mind, I didn’t go that far in school, but the Young Lords were gaining a reputation in the political field at that time and standing up for the community. So, anyway, that group, the Lincoln Park Poor People’s Coalition, and the Young Lords were meeting with the institutions, like the hospitals and McCormick Seminary, and asking them to -- we’re kinda demanding that they be involved in low-income housing. Somebody had to -- 26 �’cause they were the ones that were involved in trying to displace us. We were trying to put pressure on them to also invest in low-income housing. We were not against improving the community. We just wanted to make sure that there was neighborhood diversity, that everyone was included. Well, McCormick Theological Seminary, a religious institution, [00:56:00] clearly stated that they were not gonna be involved in low-income housing because it was not profitable. So, it was like our group was demoralized. The coalition was demoralized, so the Young Lords -- we took it upon ourselves. We walked out [in caucus?] at the meeting, and we took it upon ourselves. We were walking back, and we’re looking at McCormick Theological Seminary, and we said, “You know what? We can take this building over,” and we went in, and we had no cars at that time, no vehicles. Most of us had bicycles, so that’s what we used, was chains from the bicycle chains, and we chained the doors, and we -- you know, broke in, and chained the doors, and took it over. We used the offices and the phones. By the next morning, we had called the media. The media had broadcast it, and the place was filling up with our [00:57:00] people. And so, by the next morning, we had about 350 people inside that seminary with us, the administration building. Today, it’s DePaul University. We stayed there for about a week. During that process, there was a theater there, so we had singers. We had poetry readings. We had acting. We had all kind of stuff going on at that time. People started organizing. We hadn’t provided any provisions. We hadn’t really planned it, so, the next morning, restaurants and neighborhood people were coming with food for us, delivering food, and we set up a kitchen crew, and we started cooking 27 �inside the administration building and that, and started feeding the people. So, [instead of going?] to [00:58:00] students from the -- seminarians that were going to the school wanted -- we kinda didn’t trust them because they were connected with the school, but we did trust them a bit, so we told them that they could -- you know, they wanted to join with us, and we said, “Fine. If you want to be our security in the front so, when the police comes, you’re there, and you are students, so it’s gonna be more difficult for them to attack you first. But, if you’re willing to do that --” And they were definitely willing to do that. At one point, McKay, the administrator, wanted to send in the police, and the -- we didn’t want the women to do it, but they did. They started bringing in their children. We asked them not to do that, but they did it on their own. We threatened to burn down the library, and that was the final [00:59:00] thing that made McKay, the director, change his mind. We also had sent a representative to Texas, to their annual conference of the Presbyterian Church, who were the people that were running the seminary, so we had a representative go all the way to Texas, Obed López. And then, by Sunday, when we threatened to burn down the library, is when they negotiated with us, and we received all our demands. We won all our demands -- 601,000 dollars to be invested in low-income housing, to hire an architect so that we can come up with our own plans, 30,000 dollar -- no, 50,000 dollars for a health clinic for Lincoln Park, the Ramón Emeterio Betances Health Clinic, which we later put in at People’s Church on Dayton and [01:00:00] Armitage, another 50,000 dollars for a clinic in West Town, in the Wicker Park neighborhood, which -- today, Wicker Park has also been displaced. We had 28 �50,000 dollars for a cultural center. Fifty thousand dollars went for the People’s Law Office, which still exists today. In fact, that clinic existed to maybe 15 years ago, so, I mean, it was -- these became institutions in their own right. But, anyway, right after that, McCormick -- that victory -- where we hung out, it was Dayton and Armitage, and there was a vacant United Methodist Church there. And so, we had been negotiating with them to see if they would let us use their gymnasium so that the guys who were hanging out outside of their church would be able to go inside and play basketball instead of just hanging out and creating a ruckus outside, [01:01:00] but we can work with the youth, and they wouldn’t be involved in gangs. But the congregation was a Cuban congregation, and they did not like what the Young Lords were doing. At that time, we didn’t understand what we were doing wrong, but the community was primarily Puerto Rican anyway, but the congregation was Cuban at the time. But, anyway, we ended up -- Reverend Bruce Johnson, who was there, was also a member of the Northside Cooperative Ministry, so he was already working with us. So, when we took over that church, he basically went against his own congregation. His congregation called the police, and I was standing outside with him, and I said, “There’s gonna be a bloodbath.” You know, there was weapons there. “There’s gonna be a bloodbath.” And so, Reverend Bruce Johnson decided to [01:02:00] tell the police that he had given us permission to be there. So, because of that action, we in turn said, well, this is really not a takeover. So, the next day, we had opened up the day care center of the clinic and all that right away, and there was a press conference, and the press conference asked me, were we gonna permit 29 �the church to have Mass, and I told them, “This is not a takeover, and not only are they gonna have Mass, but I intend to be there myself.” And so, after that, they came up with a button that said, “People’s Church,” so they became part of the movement that we also were doing. In fact, that’s what was good about the Young Lords, was we were increasing in numbers. We got many people to be involved, so it became more than just a Puerto Rican movement, but it became more of a diverse movement. [01:03:00] So, after that, the police came down heavy with repression. There were building inspectors being brought to the church to try to close it down ’cause we were there. They had a police car that changed their shift right there, in front of the church, so it was there, parked, 24 hours a day. They were photographing everybody going in and out of the church. They were calling the radio and stop people like a block away, shake them down, you know, go through their possessions. Many times, I would be arrested, and they would take my phone book with out -- just, they knew they could do that, and they were getting people’s numbers, and addresses, and that from me, so I know they were doing that with a lot of other people. So, you know, they had put the Young Lords and the Black Panthers in the police training videos, so -- [01:04:00] we didn’t have cars, so, when we walked down the street, we were being stopped by new recruits, new police recruits, because, hey, this is Cha-Cha, or this is Fred Hampton, or these are Panthers. These are Young Lords. Anybody with our buttons, and there were a lot of people wearing our buttons, would be stopped and harassed, which is freedom of speech, wearing a button, but they would be stopped and harassed. But, anyway, when we saw 30 �that that was taking place, we were learning more from the Black Panther Party. Say, “That’s why we need these programs,” the breakfast for children program, the health clinic, and that, so not only are we showing people what type of society we want, a cooperative society that we want, you know, to work together, more collectivism, to work together, as we call it, but these are ways also to keep us alive, to survive, so [01:05:00] that the police cannot attack us and destroy our movement, which is what they wanted to do at that time. So, we said, instead of being so -- the Puerto Rican community had not gone, like the African American community, through a phase of -- at least the Puerto Rican community in Chicago -- through a phase of nonviolence, and demonstrations, (inaudible), so we needed to involve more of the people in the community. And so, we began to organize demonstrations, and one turning point was when Manuel Ramos was killed by an off-duty policeman, James Lamb, and people in the Young Lords wanted to get even, and we had discussions and said, “You know, the best way to get even is to organize the community.” [All the?] hotheads in the group wanted just to shoot people, to get even the old-fashioned way, [01:06:00] but we were able to organize, and we had a march of about 10,000 strong. At that time, we had other groups join in. I remember the Horsemen was a motorcycle group, and they came with their motorcycles in front, and they looked beautiful. And then, the Caballeros de San Juan and Hijas de María of council number nine, they were deeply involved with us at that time, so the church was involved. In fact, Antulio Parrilla, the bishop of Puerto Rico, came to celebrate -- specifically to Chicago -- to celebrate a Mass for the Young Lords, so we were very grateful 31 �for that. This is the bishop of Puerto Rico coming just to see us, and the Caballeros of San Juan were the ones that brought him in. Jesús Rodríguez was the leader at that time that brought him in. So, we were getting [01:07:00] not only the Protestants with the Northside Cooperative Ministry, but the Catholic Church was also, now, supporting us and that. Later on, of course, I was involved in the [aldermanic campaign?] where I ran for alderman also, and we got 39 percent of the vote. You know, all you need is 51 percent to win, so, for the first time ever -- usually you get maybe one or two percent. Here, we got 39 percent. The second time that we were involved in a campaign was the campaign for mayor Harold Washington in 1983, and he won, and it was a different feeling from picketing and protesting to being victors, to winning, and that’s when I introduced him in front of 100,000 Puerto Ricans in Humboldt Park with 30,000 people wearing our buttons. So, you know, we started kind of militant from the [01:08:00] gang, kinda evil and mischievous, and became citizens, honest citizens working for the community, and, now, many of our people know us. Our history’s being taught in many Latino studies departments in many universities across this country. Right now, as a student at Grand Valley State University, I’m in the process of documenting the community of Lincoln Park that was completely displaced with an oral history project. We have done some work with DePaul University, but this is -- I’m excited. This is a bigger project, and it’s the people themselves, telling their own history. And so, that’s what we’re doing. That’s what I’m doing today. That’s what we’re doing today as a group. 32 �Q1: [01:09:00] Now, with that, why is documenting the past so important to you, and what do you want to achieve with this project? JJ: Well, you know, it’s not just documenting the past, but this is a group of people that stood up for their rights, so it’s -- we’re telling the history of an immigrant group, the Puerto Rican community, that -- not many people know about the Puerto Rican community. The first Puerto Ricans to Chicago, their community that was displaced, and we’re saying that they stood up for their rights. So, it’s like a historical piece that we’re doing for the community. I mean, they stood up. They marched. They protested. They were militant. They were religious. They were pilgrims. [01:10:00] There’s many lessons to be learned. They worked with their own youth. The whole lessons of how they were a stable community, and then they were destabilized and destroyed, and supergangs came out of that. All those are lessons that not only the Puerto Rican community can learn but everyone can learn. And so, I think it’s an important element in terms of the history of the United States itself. I mean, this is the first gang that completely turned themselves around. I mean, you don’t have that. That’s history by itself. You don’t have that in the history of -- this is good for the sociologists and anybody that wants to study the gang problem that exists today to at least get some ideas how we can change that for future immigrants that will be coming -[01:11:00] you know, this is the land of immigrants. So, it’s important, I think, for America. It’s important for Puerto Ricans that we do this history. Q1: Well, thank you. JJ: Thank you. 33 �Q1: Awesome stuff. Q2: Very nice. Q1: Thank you. (break in recording) Q1: And recording. JJ: Well, I’m against the plebiscite mainly because it’s not Puerto Rican. It’s more of a master plan for Puerto Rico that was put in place since 1898. It’s a tool to try to complete the process of colonization for Puerto Rico. It’s not half of the population of Puerto Ricans that live in the United States, who live in what we call a shuttle culture because they move back and [01:12:00] forth to Puerto Rico. They travel back and forth to Puerto Rico. Their children were born here or born there. It’s a shuttle culture. Half of the Puerto Ricans will not be able to vote in this plebiscite, so it’s a rigged election from the beginning. It’s only there for the purposes of helping to elect the current governor that exists there. Puerto Rico is an occupied nation. There is no army, no military. They government of Puerto Rico is basically on the payroll so that, you know, you have more people in government than you really need, and they’re just basically there to maintain the island [colonized?]. One-third of Puerto Rico is a military base. Puerto Rico does not have its own currency. From the peso, they went to the American dollar. Puerto Ricans [01:13:00] are not against the Americans. We have fought for the American people, so we -- Puerto Ricans are American citizens. What we’re saying is that we have a right to determine our own destiny, the same thing that the United States was saying against England. We have been in existence 34 �300 years more than the United States. In fact, the first governor of Puerto Rico, Ponce de León, discovered the oldest city in the United States, St. Augustine, Florida. So, I mean, Puerto Rico is a nation with its own culture, with its own language, with its own history, a nation of 500 years and more, and we feel it’s an occupied nation, and it needs to remain free. Libre, as we call it. [Thanks?]. END OF VIDEO FILE 35 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c5131908777cdf642451538df4f7adaf.mp4 9002636d2da7277abcfb9ae39d32c14d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Jose Jimenez vídeo entrevista y biografía, entrevista 1 Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, entrevistado en 3/15/2012 sobre los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Jimenez_Jose_1 Title A name given to the resource Jose Jimenez video interview and transcript, interview 1 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jimenez, Jose Description An account of the resource Oral history of Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, interviewed on 3/15/2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-15 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4c3bf5e1e33c7819d42bcf28fa55154a.pdf 723307eca2555bbeff1f0f266f28c814 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 7/14/2012 Runtime: 00:28:27 Biography and Description Oral history and interview of Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on March 15, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban �renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript yl_Jimenez_Jose_2 Q1: Yeah, it is kinda low. JOSE JIMENEZ: It is low. Q2: Okay. Could you state your name? JJ: Yeah. It’s José Jiménez, born 1948. Q2: Good. (inaudible). Q1: [And you were?] -- JJ: Is this one on? Is this one on? (inaudible) [press?] that button. Q1: Yes, it is on. JJ: Okay, the red button -- Q1: And the voice is going. I can see the audio. JJ: Okay. Q1: Okay. Q2: Okay. I’d heard a report from a former Young Lord about the killing of a pastor in the DePaul University area. [If you could?] tell me what you know about it. JJ: Yeah. Reverend Bruce Johnson and Eugenia Johnson, his wife, were -- he was found stabbed seventeen times, and his wife nine times. They tried to make it look like it was [00:01:00] a gang that did it because we had been in his church, at People’s Church. Reverend Bruce Johnson was a member of the Northside Cooperative Ministry, which was a coalition of ministers that were supporting the Young Lords. His congregation were Cuban exiles that were against us having murals on the wall, but, I mean -- and they were against us being in the church. 1 �We were also having problems with the local mafia at the time, and also -because we were picketing. They ran the real estate offices that were displacing the Puerto Rican community of Lincoln Park. Q2: What was the address of this church? JJ: It was 834 West Armitage. When we took over the church, he prevented the police from coming into the church, where the congregation was trying to get us arrested, [00:02:00] so we were able to work with him, and we started saying, “Well, this is not really a takeover. We’re gonna work together.” And, together, we renamed it People’s Church. We came up with buttons and everything to go along with that. We set up the first free community daycare center in Chicago. We set up the Ramón Emeterio Betances Health Clinic, and also a dental clinic in the basement. We also had a Puerto Rican Cultural Center in the church. So, we did a lot of work, and he supported us. He was under attack. They fined the church 200 dollars a day every time it remained open, so he was going under that attack, and the local alderman, Alderman Barr McCutcheon, had organized a group called -- something about [00:03:00] uniting the do-gooders, basically, it was called, but they were sending letters to the Methodist bishop to try to get him out of there. This is just prior to when he was killed. Of course, we had -- the police were parked, the [Red Squad?] was parked, like, 24 hours a day in front of the church. There were people being arrested for wearing the Young Lords buttons or arrested for disorderly conduct, harassed. They had the stop-and-frisk law, so they would stop and frisk them any time they wanted to. So, he was under attack, basically, before that happened. On the week that it happened, I 2 �had been in the county jail because of -- I had, like, 18 cases pending. And so, I would have to go to court, and, sometimes, [00:04:00] it was three courtrooms at the same time. And so, one judge would get angry and give me another charge for bond jumping because I wasn’t in his courtroom when I had to be in three at the same time. So, I mean, that was me. I was the head of the group, the Young Lords, but other members were also going through repression, similar repression, at the same time. So, all that was going on, and this was 30 days before Fred Hampton and Mark Clark were killed, so this was right around that time. They had announced one time that we had a cache of weapons inside the church. It was announced on ABC News, on the national news. Well, we didn’t have any weapons. I mean, we had to set up, like, a [vigil?] because we knew that a raid was coming to the church ’cause the Panthers had been raided three times. They had had three shootouts [00:05:00] with the police or -- you know, the police started shooting at them, basically. It’s not that they were having shootouts, but the police were shooting into their offices and that. So, that’s the kind of climate that existed at that time. Our main, primary concern at that time was that our neighborhood was being displaced, that they wanted to create an inner city suburb in Lincoln Park. And so, you know, like, some people use the term gentrification. To us, that’s like cookies and milk. It’s not really reflective of what was going on. What was going on was that these were -- was what they did to the indigenous people, where they took their land for [beads?], and that’s what really was going on. The Latino community was being ripped off of prime real estate because we were so close to downtown and so close [00:06:00] to the 3 �lakefront, so this was prime land, which -- we were not aware of it. We were new immigrants coming into Chicago since the ’50s, since the late ’40s and ’50s, so we were buying houses cheap, like 15,000, 24,000, that are, today, being sold for a million dollars. So, I mean, that’s why I’m saying gentrification is a sweet term to what they actually did there. It was a rip-off, basically. But Reverend Bruce Johnson and Eugenia Johnson were supporting us. Q2: Can you tell me anything about them? How old were they? JJ: Well, they were young. They were young ministers. I don’t really know them that well. They were young ministers. They were trying to work with the poor at that time. Maybe a little naive, a little idealistic, [00:07:00] naive, there, but we had respect for them. They did have our respect. He used to teach Puerto Rican history to some of the gang members that -- we would hang around in front of the church before we became political. Some of us hung around in front of the church, so some of us already knew him, so he would teach Puerto Rican history, which we didn’t get in any school. So, he was actually trying to awaken us to the conditions that were going on at that time. His church was also -- they were renting space to the welfare department (inaudible), so the people in the neighborhood would go there to pick up their food stamps, or their cheese, or whatever the welfare department was giving out. But, as soon as urban renewal came to Lincoln Park, that was the first place that was moved, so it became an empty church. It wasn’t being utilized, and that’s one of the reasons that [00:08:00] the Young Lords were meeting for about four or five months prior to the takeover. We were meeting, and we were being frustrated because the 4 �congregation didn’t want us in there, even though we offered to pay them money, to raise money, to pay to help pay the rent, just like the city had had the welfare department (inaudible). We offered to pay them some money, [some rental space?], but they said no, and especially when they heard that we were connected with the Black Panther Party, they didn’t want anything to do with us there. What happened [on the?] takeover was -- I remember standing outside after meeting with Reverend Bruce Johnson, and one of the members of the Young Lords signaled to me that, you know, we got the church. The church is taken over. I wasn’t even aware of it. This was something that was spontaneous, and they had decided to do it because we had just come from [00:09:00] the takeover of McCormick Theological Seminary, where we had stayed there for a week and won all of our demands, including 601,000 dollars to be invested in low-income housing. So, we even had our architect draw up plans, and we had a project. So, we had won a victory there, and, now, we were coming, and these people from the Young Lords, on their own, basically, took it over, and they’re signaling to me, “We have it. We have the church.” So, right after that, soon after that, the congregation called the police, and we’re trying to talk to each other, myself and Reverend Bruce Johnson, about -- this is gonna be a bloodshed here if the police try to enter the church. So, we were trying to calm things down, and that’s what he did. He basically told the police that he gave us permission to be in the church while the congregation is [00:10:00] saying, “No, they can’t be there. What are you doing?” So, you know, clearly, they were angry with their own pastor at the time. So, he was getting a lot of enemies 5 �because he was working with Puerto Ricans at that time. And so, I believe that’s why they -- you know, to us, he was our pastor. The reporters asked me, “Are you going to allow the church to have service?” The very next day after we had taken it over. And we said, “We’re not here to disrupt anything from the church, and, in fact, we’re gonna be at the service ourselves.” So, we had respect for them and the church. A lot of the Young Lords are -- a lot of Latinos are Catholic, and we kind of respect the church, even though they were -- he’s a United Methodist minister, but we respected any church at that time. And so, our concern for the takeover of the church was [00:11:00] more -- we’re trying to stop displacement of our people, and we’re trying to talk about community rights, you know, because all the decisions that were made in Lincoln Park were not done with us. In fact, that was really our primary concern. We’re not against improving the community, but we just wanted a voice in it. It was our neighborhood, and they just came in and took it over physically because a lot of - the people were evicted by sheriffs. They were evicted by the police. At that time in Lincoln Park, where you don’t see that today, I mean, you would walk around and see people’s furnitures on the sidewalk, where they were evicted because the rents went from -- I know, myself, personally, we paid 80 dollars a month rent one month, and the next month, it was 400. So, I mean, this is what was going on all over [00:12:00] Lincoln Park to a lot of families and that, but that was our main concern at that time. And then, we also learned -- because we joined with the Black Panther Party and the Rainbow Coalition, we began to learn about the programs, and we set up a free breakfast for children program, a clinic, 6 �some other programs in the church and that. And so, we had some other ideas from the Panthers, but our concern, instead of the police, was more housingrelated, and, today, it’s been brought up more like with the Occupy movement, the Wall Street movement. [At that time?], but it was more reflective in terms of the neighborhood at that time. Q2: What government agencies were involved in either keeping tabs on you or harassing or (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? JJ: They were trying to encircle us to destroy us, I guess. You had this regular [00:13:00] Chicago police. They were against us, that were keeping tabs on us. You had the Alderman Barr McCutcheon, and the UPTIGD. That’s the name of the group. United People to Inform Good Doers. UPTIGD. So, they had an organization. They were keeping tabs on us. The local mafia, we had picketed several times, so they didn’t get along with us too well. You had the Red Squad. They had a car parked 24 hours a day in front of the church. They would literally change shifts there. You know, you would see them change the shift. That car was there 24 hours a day. And then, in the neighborhood, you had the Gang Intelligence Unit because we had been a former gang, so they had files on us, and they had people checking us out. We, later on, found out that the Panthers in Chicago were being investigated by [00:14:00] COINTELPRO, so that meant that anybody part of the Rainbow Coalition was also being investigated. I mean, they kept very good records. We had congressional committees that were set up to investigate the Black Panthers, and the Young Lords, and all that. We, later on, were reading some of their documents and that. So, you had quite a few 7 �people -- well, and then, Mayor Daley called the War on Gangs. And so, now, you have the regular precinct organization that were spreading rumor campaigns about the Young Lords to try to disrupt us, but on the other side of the coin is that, because we were former gang members of that neighborhood -- our parents grew up there in that neighborhood, we grew up there -- we had a very tight connection to the community, and that’s why it was difficult. That’s why they needed all these -- the precinct captains [00:15:00] and everybody else to try to discredit us. When we were growing up, I remember being in altar boy at St. Michael’s. Our parents were involved in the church there. They had an organization called the Caballeros de San Juan or Knights of St. John and the Damas de María, the Daughters of Mary. Their whole concern was just to get Spanish Mass, and yet, if you look at a lot of the churches where they got Spanish Mass, they got it, but it was usually kept in a hall. They didn’t have it in the regular chapel, so there was a prejudice where people -- the old-timers didn’t want these new Puerto Ricans coming in, so they said, “Okay, you can have Mass, but not in the regular chapel,” although they said later that they preferred that. In the oral histories that I’m doing, some clearly say that, no, they did not want us there [00:16:00] [in the thing?]. So, we had seen what our parents had done, but, to us, they were more [docile?]. They knew there was discrimination because, when they went to rent apartments, they would say, “No dogs allowed.” You know, they were telling them, “We don’t rent to Puerto Ricans,” or, “No dogs allowed,” or whatever. That kind of attitude. And some of our parents were beaten up by the white gangs at that time in that neighborhood, the Anglo gangs, 8 �the greaser gangs that we were talking about earlier, that we fought later. But, of course, we were all kicked out, so, you know, we later joined together. So, it was a community. It was basically a community. Our parents were very good organizers. They organized the softball teams. The first Puerto Rican Parade came out of the Lincoln Park neighborhood. [00:17:00] So, all the first Puerto Rican businesses in Chicago came out of there, out of the Lincoln Park neighborhood. So, this was a broad community that we became the representatives of and the leaders in fighting back Mayor Daley. I mean, we were fighting Mayor Daley directly, and even his own people don’t fight him. I mean, but we were fighting -- so, we got scapegoated. We took a lot of [hits?] for that. We eventually ended up in the underground. When I had to serve -- the first of my cases was a year. That was the maximum that they could give me for -- they said I took 23 dollars’ worth of lumber for the daycare center or whatever, but I actually pleaded guilty to that, but the other cases that I pleaded not guilty, we negotiated for them. They threw them out of court and that, but there [00:18:00] were a total of 18 felony counts on me at that time. But, anyway, I knew that they were trying to destroy the group, so I didn’t go to court. I did jump bail then, and I went underground for about two and a half years. We organized a underground training school for new leaders. And then, we came back, and I began [doing a year?] -- we came back on the exact date of the memorial to Fred Hampton and Mark Clark, on December 4, 1972. I turned myself in then because I felt that I needed to -- we wanted to organize. Some people saw me in 9 �Cuba, [they thought I was?] in Cuba, but I wanted to continue organizing. We wanted to keep the Young Lords alive at that time for our community. Q2: Well, the FBI has been very focused on Puerto Rican nationalism and people [00:19:00] who want the status of Puerto Rico changed to either a state or independent country. Was that tied to the Young Lords (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? JJ: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. We saw urban renewal -- we connected that to the issue of self-determination for Puerto Rico. So, we held the first demonstrations in Chicago. There had been demonstrations in New York, but, I mean, we held the biggest demonstrations and the first ones in the city of Chicago, supporting self-determination for Puerto Rico, and we connected that to this -- we would tell our people, “You see what they did here in Lincoln Park? That’s exactly what they’re gonna do in Puerto Rico. They’re gonna come in with businesses, and flowers, and everything else, and beautify the country with the only purpose of continuing their colonialism, continuing to take it over even more.” And today, [00:20:00] this year, they were talking about the plebiscite and trying to make it a state. Every time the republican governor goes there, that’s what happens. So, no, that was our major issue, was the self-determination for Puerto Rico, but we had -- we started because of the urban renewal. That’s what got us -- we could see that clearly because we were right there in Lincoln Park, and we saw what was going on. Q2: Do you have any idea who killed that pastor and his wife? 10 �JJ: Well, I mean, we don’t know who killed him. I mean, we think it’s the government, but, I mean, we don’t have any proof, but he had enemies, like I said, the alderman. At DePaul University, there are letters that were being sent to the bishop by the alderman and the UPTIGD organization, demanding that the United Methodist Church kick him out and the Young Lords from the church. [00:21:00] The local mafia that we were picketing in the neighborhood -- when I said local mafia, they ran the numbers, and I know they was a local mafia ’cause my father used to sell the numbers and turn in the receipts to them, so it’s not like we didn’t know. Everybody in the neighborhood knew they were involved with the numbers, and, now, they were also involved in real estate. They had three real estate offices on the same block, so we know that there was a local mafia. We didn’t bother them. We weren’t against them. It’s said that they had put a submachine gun on a Puerto Rican store owner, and we wanted that corrected. We didn’t want that Puerto Rican business owner disrespected like that, and that’s why we picketed them, but they looked at us -- since we were young, they probably blamed Reverend Bruce Johnson because he was the pastor at the church, and he allowed us to be at the church, and that’s why they were angry with him. [00:22:00] So, you had that, and then you had the police. I mean, the Red Squad, clearly. You had COINTELPRO that, 30 days later, killed Fred Hampton and Mark Clark. They were against us. By being against us, they were against him. So -- Q2: But the Cuban emigres, you mentioned them. Cubans? 11 �JJ: Right, also, yeah, the Cuban -- they had just come from Cuba, and they were totally anti-Castro, and a lot of them had been connected with the CIA in the Bay of Pigs Invasion. You know, some of the Cubans that were there at that church had been involved in the Bay of Pigs Invasion. We knew of that ’cause they had talked about it. And so, they could have been connected with the CIA, with that group -- you know, the CIA recruits gang members. They recruit killers, murderers. They give them breaks, and that’s who their cadre is. [00:23:00] So, we’re thinking that they were part of the cadre of the CIA. They were there. So, that was another group, and, again, we had the Gang Intelligence, the Red Squad. There were a lot of enemies. And then, you had groups, [clear?] white groups that were racist. I mean, these were racist groups, organizations, that were also writing letters at that time to the pastor, and I was getting pictures, pornographic pictures of men having sex with other men in my mail every day. I got that for, like, six months. Somebody was just sending me that. It was a way of harassment. I don’t know if it was coming from the Red Squad, or the police, or whatever, but that’s just one example. Of course, all the times that we were picked up just for wearing the button and harassed. They would come [00:24:00] on the street with a megaphone, out loud, and, “Cha-Cha this,” and, “You punks,” and all that. This is the police, you know, so that the -- they would stop and frisk us when they saw the community, a lot of people in that street, so that the people would look at us as criminals because we’re being arrested by the police or stopped and frisked by the police. And then, the precinct captains, you know, they were clearly telling people that we were communists, that we were with 12 �Castro, we were communist, that kind of stuff. And it didn’t help the fact that we had Che Guevara on the mural on the wall of the church. We painted that. We had Don Pedro Albizu Campos, who was the leader of the Nationalist Party in Puerto Rico and fought for independence. We had Lolita Lebrón, who was one of the nationalists that went [00:25:00] to Blair House in the ’50s. We had her photo up there. We had Adelita, who was a Mexican woman, revolutionary woman. We had Emiliano Zapata on the wall. All this stuff was on the wall outside after we took over the church. It was painted on the wall. So, as you could see, there were -- the congregation would be angry about that, or other people in the community would be, including Puerto Ricans. Not just Cubans would be angry that we would have that, but we didn’t think twice about it. These were our heroes. We didn’t have any heroes, so these became our heroes. There was a lot of discussion in the neighborhood of were the Young Lords -- are they doing good things or bad things? So, you know, we were definitely talked about in the community, so there was some controversy in the neighborhood. Q2: How strong of an area was this Puerto Rican concentration? JJ: We’re talking about from North Avenue to Diversey, Lincoln [00:26:00] Park, from Racine to about Clark Street. So, the lakefront was always the [goalpost?], but the mid-section of Lincoln Park was the Puerto Rican area that was displaced. You know, you’re talking about 65,000 people that were displaced. A good 30 percent of them were Puerto Ricans (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). Q2: [Where did they go?]? In Chicago? 13 �JJ: No, in Lincoln Park. In Lincoln Park. Now, today, it’s sort of like what the Japanese -- they were put in internship [sic] camps, and we were kinda doing the same thing with the research project. We’re trying to document that community, but it’s not just for that community ’cause we’re concerned about -- today, it’s in Humboldt Park. That’s being displaced. Pilsen, the Mexican community on Pilsen was being displaced. So, we’re concerned -- New York, other cities. They’re being displaced. The whole Occupy Wall Street movement that talks [00:27:00] about that housing displacement -- today, they were talking about homelessness. Well, it comes out of that displacement era that we were involved in. And so, people need to connect the dots. We’re trying to connect the dots. Q2: Okay. I’m out of (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). JJ: Okay. Q2: Thank you. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). You gave me a lot of good information. I have to get your contact info so we can. Q1: Well, I have one great horoscope, which is just what I said in the interview. JJ: What’s it say? What’s your sign? I’m glad that’s not on the interview. What’s your sign? Q1: I’m a double Capricorn with Aquarius rising. JJ: Oh, okay. Q1: And I don’t really know what that means, but I have a strong stomach. Here’s what it said, though. It said, “Capricorn -- a change of locations will [00:28:00] help you determine your next move.” JJ: Okay. 14 �Q1: “Visualize what you want and begin the process of turning a dream into a reality. Refrain from being impulsive. Time is on your side.” JJ: Okay. P3: I say you need to cut that out and put that on your refrigerator. JJ: Yeah, [that would be good?]. Q1: It’s kinda what I said at the end, right? P3: Yeah. Yeah. Q1: I said, “Yeah, I gotta finish up some stuff, and -- END OF VIDEO FILE 15 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/18c866a914e1b2f5351e1fbd60a13863.mp4 38ee91c6402e64e0309efc16ae75b5d5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Jose Jimenez vídeo entrevista y biografía, entrevista 2 Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, entrevistado en 7/14/2012 sobre los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Jimenez_Jose_2 Title A name given to the resource Jose Jimenez video interview and transcript,interview 2 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jimenez, Jose Description An account of the resource Oral history of Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, interviewed on 7/14/2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-07-14 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/62392947eee090e1ca82c8f6187d0be5.jpg 6d65612de22c33eb23dc87ec92e31ec8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1975 Title A name given to the resource Joseph Bechard, Special Education Studies student teacher Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_001615 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Description An account of the resource Joseph Bechard, Special Education Studies student teacher, talking with a student in class at Jeffers Elementary School. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Spring Lake (Mich.) Universities and colleges Education Students Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright - Non-commercial use permitted.</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d5a1e3187ee672cd9df8570c647a4cbf.pdf ef83a9f06ac9d6f96a9c8c99a1bce1ac PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Interviewee: Joseph Cospito Interviewers: Justin Francis Cospito Supervising Faculty: Melanie Shell-Weiss Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 3/9/2012 Biography and Description Joseph Cospito likes working on his house, playing with his children, being a stay at home dad, and listening to books on audio tape. He is a retired science professor who is married to an episcopal priest. He discusses growing up in the fifties in Bartonville, Illinois. Transcript JFC: My name is Justin Cospito and I am interviewing my father Joseph Cospito at three PM on March ninth and we are in our home of Northville Michigan and dad would you like to spell out your name? JAC: Sure, last name is c-o-s-p-i-t-o JFC: So tell us a little bit about your background, where’d you grow up? JAC: Well I was born in New Jersey, but I grew up in the Midwest, a little town called Bartonville, outside of Peoria, Illinois. It was an old coal mining town and we were the only Catholic family that moved into that area. We moved into an old coal miner’s house that didn’t have water, electricity, and an old outhouse out back. JFC: Alright, well did you have any siblings? JAC: Yea I had three siblings. I had two sisters and one brother. My brother John was the youngest and I was the oldest. JFC: And do you wanna just explain what your childhood life went through, and through high school? JAC: Yea it was challenging to live in a small town where everybody knew your business. I remember we had a phone line that had like five people on it and there was Mrs. McGullicutty would listen to everybody’s conversations. She would just be quiet. She knew when to get on the phone cause all the phones would ring. If a call was coming into that line and people were always saying “get off the phone get off the phone” but she’d listen quietly and you could hear her. That’s what a small community’s like. It was the fifties so just remember grade school as being like a prison it was a big old building, dark. Page 1 �Teachers seemed like they were ancient and they were mean. Back then you could get paddled or they could break yard sticks across your back, not the girls just the boys. And sometimes you just had to break some rules to have some kind of a life in that institution and I choose to break more rules than I probably should have. After grade school in Bartonville, Bartonville grade school I was sent to a catholic school and went to a catholic high school. All boys school, I liked that, I enjoyed that much much more cause I was heavy into athletics and I was a very religious person and actually was invited to join to enter into a pre-seminary they called it, to finish up high school, but I didn’t do that. My father blocked that idea. JFC: Well can you tell us a little bit just about your interpersonal relationships with your father and your siblings. JAC: Sure I was the oldest so I saw my duty to take care of and look after the children. My father, your grandfather was a veteran of world war two. He was in the army before World war two started. He was in Greenland and he told me stories about German bombers coming over and trying to bomb the base and that was before war was declared to the US then he was brought back to the states. He was a medic, he was trained to work with donkeys and then shipped around the world to India and then he was flown into southern China over the Himalayan Mountains with these donkeys and for two years he ran up and down hills being chased by the Japanese. He was with the Chang hi shek army they were, he showed me some pictures. They were absolutely brutal to their own people and he said they never stood and fought against the Japanese. He was with a small medical unit that was attached to the Chinese to care for their wounded and sick. Yea our relationship was not very good, with my father. He was. He had his own post-traumatic stress coming back from the war. His sister said he didn’t come back the same. He was a violent man, explosive, drank a lot. Later found out he was an alcoholic. He gambled a lot we grew up in poverty even though he had a decent job at Caterpillar Tractor Company. Where everybody in my family, I mean all the men in my family worked, At least at some point in their lives for Caterpillar Tractor Company. Oh we didn’t have the money that our neighbors had and other people at our school had and that was very difficult and shameful to live that way. That and his temper and his violence. So I tried to shelter my siblings as much as possible from his wrath taking his, taking his violence physically, but emotionally it was very, very difficult. I hated him for almost my entire life. And still to this day I can’t be at peace with it. My mother was weak, she just, when she tried to stand up to him he just over powered her and I saw him hit her once. Hmm she was afraid of him and she was afraid of what he would do to her parents who lived in the same town. He had threatened to hurt them if she left him. Oh that, it was a hard time. JFC: So why don’t you tell us what it was like growing up in the fifties and just continue on until you got into college and what you did in college. JAC: The fifties were certainly different than today’s world. It was actually a much more, it was a calmer life and not near as much drama and didn’t hear about all the violence that we have today. I think, I don’t know if it was less violence but I grew up without television up until high school and then it was just a black and white television. I would walk by this electronic store and I would look at some of the TV’s they had in the window and I remember watching “Hop Along Cassidy Show” and I started going Page 2 �there Saturday mornings at a certain time to watch some of the programs. But we would sit around at night and listen to the radio, especially ball games. Baseball was really big in our house, listening to it. There were kids would just hang out in high school, we would go to these hamburger or we called them tenderloin shops. They would make tenderloin or barbecue sandwiches and those were the hang outs on Friday and Saturday nights. Everybody would work on their cars, the guys would work on their cars on Saturdays, shine them all up, have a date, go out to the movies or something common there’d be groups. Then we’d go get something to eat, but we’d just drive around and around and around until we finally thought we found a cool spot to park and then we’d park and order. The waitresses were just, we called them car hops, they would roller skate out, take your order, put a tray on the side of your car, then roller skate back into the diner. They’d have your food and roller skate out with a tray full of food and drinks and then you would leave a tip for them, special on the tray. Some of our, they were women all young women, some of them were our friends, high school students. Music was real popular, we listened to a lot of music, but then it was forty five singles, and you’d get one good song on one side and you’d get some awful song on the back side that wasn’t very popular, but that’s the way they sold them. Back then you could go into record stores and you could ask for a record and you could go into a booth and listen to it to see if you wanted to buy it. Radio music stations were on all the time, whenever we were in our cars. The car was the single most important thing in our lives back in high school. It represented freedom, the area that I grew up in you would, it was surrounded by corn fields, going out for a drive on these gravel roads. We’d go to strip mines, which were mines, surface mining. They’d be filled up with water and we’d go swimming and it was very care free compared to today’s world. The classes were easy and it was just like grade school but just a little bit more difficult. But the teachers were laid back and everybody was kinda had their own rhythm and it wasn’t fast. Periodically we would have these air raid drills were we would all hide underneath our desk waiting for a nuclear bomb to drop, all the way through grade school and high school we’d be doing that and then you’d have tornado watch and if a tornado came by you’d have to go into the hall way away from glass, so it seems like we were always preparing for something. I remember helping my father build a bomb shelter down in the basement with sand bags. There was a period of time where everybody was building bomb shelters. The situation with the Soviet Union was very tense. I can remember in high school the news of the Talcon resolution where supposedly the Turner was attacked by north Vietnamese speed boats, later we found out in history that wasn’t true at all. But I remember the country gearing up for war and I remembering that all of us young men were senior year were just saying, “Yea” rooting the United States on “Yeah lets go over there, let’s make them pay.” I went on to college; it was a small number of friends. Most of the kids from that graduating class worked Keystone, Steel and Wire, Caterpillar, or local lumber yard or just local jobs or they’d go back and work on the family farm. They, they didn’t go off to college. And very very few women went off to college. They were supposed to just stay at home, get a job, and wait to be married. My parents and many parents back then wouldn’t put money into a girls education, because they figured she was just gonna get married, have babies, and start a family and her husband would take care of her. I remember Sputnik when that came out; going outside to watch it and the country had another wave of fear. I don’t know what of, but I think they were just afraid of the advanced technology of the Soviet Union. But I remember then the space race started. But more money was poured into the schools for science and math. There was a sudden interest in it and I rode that wave. I did very well in math and science and that’s what I majored in, in college and I got a scholarship that paid for my tuition. Page 3 �I had to get a part time job to pay for the rest of my room and board, but I also was able to get what they called “National Defense Loan.” They were education loans that they made available especially for science majors and I borrowed some money from that program. I was premedical, enjoyed the studies, but the war was heating up in 1966. A classmate of mine that we grew up as friends through grade school, through high school, and went off to college together, came into my dorm room late one evening and knocked on the door. I let him in, he was a bit drunk, and he said “let’s drop outta school and enlist before the war was over.” And it was just before exams so I said, “Good idea, okay and so we got, we drove into a train station and jumped on a train up to Chicago and enlisted, he enlisted into becoming a war officer flying helicopters, which made sense because he had dropped out of college that whole year and was spending the tuition money that his parents were giving him for flying lessons and he was just living in the dorm. They didn’t know… the school didn’t even know that he wasn’t registered for classes. Now I went to small college in southern Illinois, they called Eastern Illinois University, very beautiful area, very beautiful college and I liked it, but I felt like that the communists were killing Catholics, they were killing Christians and I had to go do something about that. So I enlisted into an army security agency, knowing I’d go into language training. That’s what they told me and indeed that’s what happened. Went off to basic training, didn’t see Gary for a long time, quite a few years. Had language training in North Vietnamese in Washington D.C. I was stationed at Arlington hall our buildings were at the south post of what’s Arlington Cemetery. And I’d go into town, D.C. every morning with a coat and tie and no military I.D. go into the basement of one of the large buildings on Connecticut Avenue and we’d start the day at nine o’clock for classes and only Vietnamese was spoken during the day, during class times. We’d have short break for lunch, where’d we go upstairs, go out somewhere get something to eat and come back down. And we were trained in vocabulary on conversational and on listening we had headphones, we’d have to listen to tapes. Try to translate them or at least get a gist of the conversation. We did that for, oh god, quite a few months until November and then I was pulled out and ordered to Vietnam and I remember I went by myself, the other class mates were scattered around. People were taking different languages at that time. There was a small group taking that dialect and I don’t know where the other guys went, but I wound up in Quan Trii. I remember getting off the airplane, I had a khaki uniform; I didn’t have my utilities then and just being hit by this massive hid heat and just all kinds of smells. Most distinguishing smell was diesel fuel burning, it was covering the field. Later found out that, that’s how, that was the sewage system emptying, emptying the trenches and then poor guys would have to stand there in diesel fuel. Oh that was sick. I turned over my orders, I was told I was gonna be listening to tapes that were collected from the Hociman trail and translating them, trying to distinguish between Chinese and different dialects of Vietnamese (JFC sneezes a couple times) but to my surprise I was signed to a platoon of south Vietnamese rangers and spent my time in Vietnam up in the mountains on the smaller areas of the Hociman trail JFC: Well do you wanna go into detail about what happened in Vietnam? JAC: Well I can just say being a very strong catholic boy to being hit with the immorality and the viciousness and just the insanity of war. It was very hard on me. It was very violent and it seemed senseless. And I went from a college student to being somebody that became nb and could kill other people. And it was a very fast transition. None of my training ever prepared me for that. And I was very Page 4 �isolated, I was with Vietnamese, there was an American officer and maybe a sergeant assigned to these ten man patrols. We’d go out for ten to twelve to fourteen days up in the mountains looking for the trails, looking for the North Vietnamese trails and setting up ambushes. And my task was to send up a, the Vietnamese would set up a long antenna for me on the side facing Lousts the plains and I’d do electronic intercept. That was basically my job, that and taking samples back of any ammunitions or rice or supplies to bring them back. JFC: Okay and how did your experience in Vietnam come to an end? And what was it like coming back? JAC: Yea... Well the world had certainly changed. JFC: Well how’d you come, what happened? JAC: We set up an ambush at night something we did every time we were out there, yea but this time it wasn’t just a bunch of young men and women pushing these heavily loaded bikes. They made these bicycles, the Chinese bicycles, they were real sturdy and they had petals but the petals were always strapped to the bike and there’d be hundreds of pounds saddled on to these bikes and these kids would just push this up and down the mountains. Not all the supplies were coming down through the plains down below which was being bombed all the time, but as the bombing got heavier they started pushing more supplies south through the mountains, through the jungle. Eh we set up an ambush, but we wound up tripping an ambush. They were regular North Vietnamese soldiers and they had RPG’s which you see on TV now you know the big head rocket. Well we’d never encountered them before they were anti-tank armor personal rockets not for infantry use, but they brought them down, they were very effective, they blew up the whole line we had. All they had to do was hit a tree. Hit some brush to set them off and then you just had, not just the metal shrapnel but you’d have just wood chips. Everything became a shrapnel. It blew up our whole line. a young guy from Wyoming was next to me and he just, he was eviscerated and everything was ripped out of him. I had a head wound and concussion and some wounding on my side, left side, but it was the concussion that I was just lost, I was just... I didn’t know where I was. I couldn’t see very well. Cause it’s just flashes of light then it’s dark then it’s flashes of light and I lost my shotgun, I was blown back quite a ways from where I was. And I remember just picking up... I can’t even remember his name now. Picking him up in a fireman’s carry and running out away down this kind of a hill area, gully. And stopping and found out he was dead and I just put him down and all I had left was my they called a K bar. Eh it’s a big knife. Bayonet. But that’s all I had. Wandering around and finally settling in under a tree and the greatest fear I had. I had two fears. One was being captured because they don’t keep prisoners up in the mountains unless you were a pilot or an officer. Nobody took prisoners there. You had no place to put them. So I didn’t want to be captured but the second fear I had and maybe that was the most and greatest fear was the tigers. Tigers always followed us. They knew that at some point they were gonna have a meal. And when they heard gun fire they would come running for dinner, it was like ringing the dinner bell. So they were there, I could hear them. And I must have stayed up all night, with my night out… knife out… wondering if I was gonna be eaten hehe. *Cough*. It was like living in a zoo, I mean there were just…the snakes were poisonous, h the ant bites would swell up. Leaches were everywhere, they weren’t just in the water, they were in the leaves, the trees, there was nothing comfortable about it. That’s where I got malaria. I Page 5 �just thought I had h an infection… I had chills… and most of the Vietnamese had it too, dysentery. h, we all had just a quarter, a small area of the map where the jp-off point was. They had different points where you were supposed to rendezvous if something were to happen. I had a compass, I found a trail that went down to the other side of the mountain range, I made it back. I was lucky to make it back. And there was, there was only five other people that were there and they were all wounded to some extent. And then we were able to…we were able to call in a pickup, but we had to hike another five or six miles, get down to a lower area, that was level enough, for the helicopters to come in. There wasn’t any way that we could rope up. Well, that’s how I h, how I wound up getting a ticket back home, not because of the severity of the wounds, but because of the concussion… my brain was just jumbled. I couldn’t speak or understand Vietnamese anymore, I couldn’t pick up the towns… it’s a tonal language. Every vowel has six tones that can be used, and any vowel within a word can change the meaning of the word. And just being a westerner was very hard to pick up on the language to begin with but after the head wound, h, it was impossible. I couldn’t make any sense of it. And when you’re in the field everyone is just yelling and cursing and everything come very fast… it’s not like learning Spanish listening to a slower conversation. Well I was of no use to them so they sent me back to be checked out at Walter Reed Army Hospital in D.C… and I did and they found out that I actually had malaria. That was… that was the worst of it, but they patched everything else up on me. The head wound now they had identified as tragic head injury, but back then it was just a head wound. Now I had headaches and I was confused for quite some time… I spent a year in and out of Walter Read. This was just being treated for the wounds and then for the h malaria but the malaria cause an autoimmune disease called black water fever where my immune system attacked my kidneys and I was losing my kidney function. In Walter Read I was put in a ward of guys that had renal problems, and there were actually quite a few malaria cases there. And Walter Reed had a long history of, of doing research on malaria. *yawn* yeah that was something to be in the hospital for such a long time. From that hospital I, I learned of Martin Luther King’s assassination, Bobby Kennedy’s assassination, the democratic convention that just went crazy… in Chicago. I was out on pass when that happened, I was at some guys house that I got to know cause I’d had, I wound up having a part time job that turned into a full time job as a bartender when I was out of the hospital. Which… I just couldn’t leave the area, cause I had to keep going back to the hospital. But they let me out longer and longer… but they wouldn’t cut me loose because obviously security wanted me back… hehe they had too much money invested in h… ability I no longer possessed. They claimed it was psychological, and they were just waiting for me to snap out of it which really never happened. I h, I remember a lieutenant, first lieutenant showing up at the clipboard, and just reaming me out; told me I needed to get back to my unit and that I had to sign all these papers that if I said anything to anybody about what I did even if I was in Vietnam, and anything I may have been doing or training I had received, I would end up at Fort Leavenworth making big rocks into small rocks. That was… I believed them… hehe cause they were the army, they could do anything…you could just disappear. See, my parents didn’t know I was in Vietnam. They had me write these letters, h, before I was shipped over, and they mailed them out periodically. And I never received any… well… I received a couple letters that were forwarded to me, but it was out of Arlington Hall, the mail had to be addressed to Arlington Hall. Arlington Hall was still the center of Army security in the States. That’s where all the spooks for the army work out of. Yup. I saw the democratic convention, I flew there, the next day after the first day of the rioting, and it was a police riot, I was there then standing in front of the hotel when a group of Afro- Page 6 �American kids had all these bottles and they started throwing them over the white middle class protesters at the police, and they were just laughing… they thought it was the greatest fun. And then they took off just as the police started charging, beating everybody up and throwing gas. They thought it was hilarious that all the white people were beating up the white people hehe. It was… it was… well I was still standing there, I was still for the war, I was still on active duty just standing there thinking, well, nothing is gonna happen to me. It was complete chaos… I was choking on gas and there was a phalanx of cops running my way and they were just beating everybody, they weren’t asking any questions. They were beating cameramen, h, so I kinda was standing there for a while thinking we could have a conversation but it became obvious that nobody was asking any questions… I took off running with everybody else. And there was a small group of us that split off, we didn’t go to the Lincoln Park, we ran over to the commuter trains, train tracks, and dropped down, I don’t know, it was like ten feet, I remember with this group just running down the tracks. What the heck am I doing this for, but I did it. And I was active; I went out every day for the rest of that week. I met Abby Hoffman, I met Alex Ginsburg, I met Tom Hayden, he was the only one wearing a white shirt and a skinny black tie. He was the only one that was really serious. h, these all became big names in some trials later, but Abby Hoffman was funny. I always quote the head of the Yippee movement, or one of the heads, which was funny because they had no heads, it was just pure energy. I remember being trained how to fall down and cover my nuts and my head when being beaten. And I actually ended up taking this seriously because I saw enough people being knocked around with nightsticks. I remember one day, Dick Gregory, the comedian, was there. And all these delegates from the convention showed up and there was gonna be a nice peaceful walk, south. Police had set it up, said just move away from the park, Lincoln Park, and walk south. They were gonna be on the streets. And so they had police cars in the front, clearing the way, so everyone was walking down the street, nice sunny day, Dick Gregory was just cracking jokes, I was up toward the front… listening to him. And we walked down a little further. And he said “well, we ought to get up on the sidewalk.” I said, “well, ok”. But when we started getting up on the sidewalk, we noticed that all the delegates had started disappearing, cause they wore a red ribbon to identify themselves as delegated on the floor. And Dick Gregory disappeared, just turned around and he was gone. You could see people were being hustled out of the crowd. So they took all the leadership, the delegates, and then there was just a crowd of people up on the sidewalk, like four abreast, going back about two miles for all I knew. And then the National Guard came in. They had the National Guard come in to take the streets all the way up. Or all the way towards the back of the line. And the National Guard running right in front, I was right in the front, blocking the front, with their rifles and gas masks on. I’m going “ohhh, this isn’t good.” And then the guys, the national guard troops got up on the trucks, standing on the hoods of the trucks, and they had these, well I thought they were flamethrowers, then I go “oh no, that’s CS gas.” We used that in Vietnam, ya know, and it was considered illegal, it’s a nerve gas, from the Geneva Convention. And that was it, I tried to get out, tried to burst out of this line and one of the guardsmen tried to, , butt me with his rifle and I flipped it around and hit him and butted him in the face and just took off. But I only got to a couple steps, and I got sprayed with the gas too, the stuff shots out like fifteen or twenty feet. And they sprayed the whole crowd. Then I remember running down the alley, , my eyes were going in different directions, I’d lost my mobility, I just got dizzy, and I dropped. I dropped down to the ground. Then I remember being hauled and thrown into a paddy wagon; it was filled with people, and the cops threw in a couple Page 7 �canisters of gas, closed it up, we were all… and I had been exposed to regular tear gas in the service. You have to go into a room and take off your mask and you gotta give your name and ID number and all this stuff it doesn’t take long for you to run out of air and you breathe it and you’re supposed to be in there for so long and it just burns and itches… burns your lungs. So… it was awful. I couldn’t believe they did that. Then I remember we came out at some parking structure, and I remember the wagon was going down, it was curving around going down, and we were in some parking structure, and it was all military, national guard, and police down there, and they were unloading these paddy wagons, and having everybody run out. But they had a little gauntlet of the police, with their sticks, and they were swinging, hitting everybody, as we ran out. Nobody read any rights haha, I remember, the Quakers kept saying “everybody tape a dime to your leg cause you get to make one phone call”. Well, we were in a parking structure, there was no phone, hahaha a dime wasn’t going to do you any good. So I was wounded on my left side where I got scars and this Chicago policeman just waylaid me and opened up my skin and rolled it back over my scalp. I was bleeding profusely and once again my head got knocked up, knocked around. And then we were put in a line and supposedly we were being processed and I’m bleeding like crazy but nobody helped. And I get up there and I show my military ID and I start cursing at them. I say, hahaha, I say “how did this happen to me? What’s going on?” It was like a goolaug(?). And I was very much for the war, you know, I was still in the service and I had just been on pass from Walter Read and I was gonna go back. And I called the digs now, the thug just looked up at me and said “get your ass on a plane out of here” and he threw the ID at me. God I had just gotten back from Vietnam, I was wounded, trying to heal, trying to understand what was going on in the country, and I was beaten and gassed and then told to get out of there, and I was from Illinois, and a Chicago cop is telling me to disappear. Well that pissed me off, so I went up, they had aid stations for the protestors, I got bandaged up, they just put tape to close the wound, they didn’t get sewed. And I stayed around. I met another group of Vietnam veterans that were there, and there was a group called “Vietnam Veterans Against the War”, and I still have one of the pins, and I joined. I joined. And from then on I became very active against the war, I became contentious of chapter counselor, oh what a time to be in the Midwest. When I went back to college at Bradley University, it had just looked like America had gone crazy. The Americans had been so pro the war, and if you were against the war, even if you were a veteran, you were communist. It was just surrealistic… moment where on college campuses, part of the citizenry didn’t like you as a veteran cause you went to an immoral war, and then you have all these American Legionnaires and World War Two veterans that just hated you because you were losing the war, and then demonstrating against it. For them it was like an act of treason. Nobody really liked you back then if you were a veteran. So… I just didn’t tell people I was a veteran anymore. Went on to graduate school, I didn’t tell anybody. I used my GI bill to go to college and then graduate school, but didn’t tell anybody I was a veteran. JFC: Ok, well m…how were your experiences at graduate school and what did you get a degree in? And after graduate school. JAC: Well, I wound up having, before I went to graduate school, I wound up having a kidney transplant; I had lost my kidneys from the malaria. I got a kidney from my father which wasn’t a good match but it kept me alive. I had been on renal dialysis for two years. I finished up undergraduate on a dialysis Page 8 �machine. They were just starting; it was a very crude technique back then. But after the transplant I felt better, and I started, h, well I was a pre-med major, I started in a MD, PhD program at CL University medical school, and wound up just getting the PhD, it was too hard to do both majors. God, once I got into clinicals it was just, my first rotation was obstetrics and this woman had a really hard birthing and it was just too much blood and screaming. I said “I’m out of here, I don’t need this.” So I went into medical research and got a PhD. I did research at the brain institute at UCLA and taught for three years. Then moved up to Seattle University and taught pre-med classes. I just had to get away from the pressure of doing research. I had a large research project that was funded, accepted and funded by NIH, and I was only about six months into it, when this whole Star Wars anti-missile defense theory was started by Regan, and Regan went in and stole all the money from NIH, he just took it. That was congress grant for biomedical research, he just took it. And he gave it over to the Star Wars program, and I had to stop my research program and I had to kill all my kittens and cats which was… well I was doing research on brain development. I remember just being so disgusted that I’d spent, not only going into the service, and it was really rejected by that service time, and then I suffer from it physically and emotionally. And I spend all this money and all these years of training to get to the point where I was just starting to be productive in my research, and once again, an idiot politician blocked me. It took all my research away; it took all my resources away. And I had to fire the veterinarian and the technician… I could have kept plugging along but I was just so furious, what’s the point? And I, h, I finished up my contract at UCLA and moved up to Seattle, Washington, taught undergraduate pre-med classes and I just loved it, it was a lot of fun. I didn’t have the pressure of a big university. JFC: Ok, well m, I guess we will keep going on to personal life. What happened and sort of what you did after, after your time being a professor. JAC: Yeah, well, *clears throat* I went back to an old colleague…I had a profound spiritual experience, I was with some Jesuits on the coast, I had this deep spiritual experience right in the middle of mass. I just got up and went out and was wondering in the woods somewhere on the Oregon coast… and my friend Andy Duffner, Jesuit Priest, who was a physicist, we got to know each other teaching at Seattle University came out and got me and said “It’s all gonna be ok, just rest”. I remember bubbling to myself “I’m not gonna be a priest, I’m not gonna be a priest” I entered the discernment program the Jesuits and I went in to get a Masters of Divinity. And I was just gonna enter the Bishop process when I met your mother on a backpacking trip, who happened to be an Episcopal priest, and still is. And she was cute… it’s just strange how that worked out too. We took this trip with two Catholic nuns… great women, up into the Canadian Cascades… up where the Rockies melt into some of that range, at a park called Cathedral Park. And it was high up in the range and you could stand up there, the upper part of the mountain, and you could see all the mountains in the Canadian Cascades going all the way down into the States. It was just beautiful. I brought my backpacking fishing fly rod and I had been fishing in the upper alpine lakes… there were little trout up there, and your mother would sit down with the book close to me and she would just watch me casting and then struck up a conversation. After a few days of that, of hiking, I would go fishing… we developed a relationship. I mean a social relationship. I went back down to the Oregon coast to get ready to the nunishipt(?). She would write me cards and letters. I would walk into town, pacific city, to look at them. I was looking forward to them. Then all of a sudden, Page 9 �they stopped. I’d walk in, there would be no mail and I just felt this great loneliness. So m, I went back to Seattle and we started dating. I put the Jesuits on hold, and they were fine by that, they really want you to know that this is what you want to do. And, jeez, after about a year, year and a half of dating we were engaged and we got married. And after two years you came along. That changed everything cause at that time I was the director of the “spiritual exercises of everyday life” which is a large retreat program throughout the Peugit Sound Area for the Jesuits. I was working as a layperson, and when Mom got pregnant with you I had to decide whether I was going to be Episcopalian or Roman Catholic. It was quite a shock to see a pregnant priest, for my generation. Your mom with her collar up on the alter rail being seven or eight months pregnant, it was just h… I had to make a decision. And so I entered into the Episcopal Church and that’s where you were raised, in that church, through your toddler years, until we moved down to Tacoma. So I taught part time and I was running this program and your mother and I raised you. JFC: Okay. This is the second half of the interview with Joseph Cospito, done on March 11, 2012, at 3:21 pm in our home of Northville, MI. and, I’m doing the interview. My name is Justin Cospito. , last thing we talked about was when I was born in Seattle, so let’s continue from there. JAC: *Cough+…the area that we live in in Seattle wasn’t very nice. But it was almost call the, would be called here in this area the inner city. It wasn’t very nice. We lived in a little valley, and your mother had bought a home. That was the original farm house in this valley. I spent a lot of time fixing it up, and did a lot of work. I had fixed up my house and I was living in... I kept it and rented it out to some friends. When I worked on your mother's house, and that's where you lived. ...we were making dilly beans. We liked to can together and late smer, and she was very, very pregnant. We were just waiting for the contractions to start when they called the water to break. And it did on this Labor Day weekend, so we went in, rushed mom into the hospital and they said oh no her contractions...she’s not ready yet. So then we left and we turned around and came right back. They admitted her, and she was in labor for 24 hours and was absolutely exhausted. She was 40 years old. It was pretty hard to get pregnant, and we just were so happy. I was there. And then the doctor called for an emergency C section. Your heart beat was slowing down, you got into some trouble, and your mother was just exhausted. So we went into the surgery room, and I’ve got pictures of the doctor make and incision and putting her left hand down on moms belly, and your butt popped out first. And I just pulled you out by your legs, and there you were. And, if I hadn’t been around the hospital so much I would have probably just dropped to the ground. And I thought it was just the most beautiful and interesting thing. And they cleaned you up and handed you to me, they finished working on your mother. And, you were unhappy, with quite a way to come into the world, being just dragged out immediately, but you were wrapped up and I held you, they had a little cap on you, and it was just an amazing event. Well, we got out, you...you, they said they did different tests and you were just fine, but you were hurt. And we didn’t realize how badly hurt you were. You were crying all the time. I’d stay up at night with you, holding you, and moving you until you fall asleep. I would just hold you and then try to get some sleep. And we would walk around the neighborhood late at night or 2, 3 in the morning to get you to go to sleep. That was the only time you slept, when there was movement, when you were being moved. Or I would put you in the car and drive all over for a good part of the night. I got tired, you mother had some complications to the surgery so Page 10 �she was in bed a long time. She got an infection. We worked part time, both your mother and I, and we took care of you part time. We were with you; sometimes I was with you all the time. We did things together, you and I had put a backpack on, and we hiked all over the place. We’d spend a good part of the day just hiking around. I got in good shape and you were happy. One thing you wouldn’t do was keep a hat on your head. I kept buying these hats; it took me awhile to figure out to safety pin it to a cord with your clothes. I would put it on and you would just take it off, and you would be angry. You didn’t want anything on your head, but I had to protect you from the sun. That part I remember, of going back a number of times looking for your hat. Those were good years. You’re a very exciting baby. We knew you were very bright, and eyes...your mother and I just went crazy about a bunch of things because your mother and I were so happy to have a baby being so old. We... [Laugh], our place was just filled with toys. But the one thing you played with that you loved was the Tupperware, and the pots and pans. So we had, so it was safe for you to take them out we had to put locks on all the doors except for that one, so you could take them out. When winter came, I bought this little play structure and put it together, they were usually outside but I had one room for you to play in, and I had all these Japanese big square pillows surrounding the play structure, so if you fell of you would just fall into a pillow. And you climbed on that oh… I guess, I’m not sure when you started walking; we’ve got in your baby book, but even before you were walking you would pull yourself up on it. And you identified with it very, very quick. And there was a little slide to it, so for a couple years that was your thing to goof around, crawl in and out of, and pull yourself up, go down the slide, sometimes you’d get up there and just let go and fall back on the pillows. We did many bus trips downtown with the science muse, to the zoo that was our favorite outings because it had big open areas where we could just run and you liked looking at the animals. And we'd stop and looking at the tiger. It was always scary, always scary for me. Well that was the life in Seattle, and then we moved to Coma, your mother was called to another church to be the director, called the Church of the Good Shepard. We found an older 1946 or 1942 house that was built by a very famous house builder in that area. It was all cedar, gold shake, and it was on two acres of land. That was not developed. It was full of brush, but we really liked it, I saw a lot of potential in it. but I’ve always done is to buy older houses and fix them up while I lived in them, and turn around and sell them and make a profit and I had to live free. And I did that for years in all the cities I lived in. so I bought the house the same way, wanting to fix it up. And I did over the years. Oh, we moved down in 1997. We left there in 2005, so that was 8 years. And 8 years I put a lot of hard work into it. I was still director of the, of the retreat for the spiritual exercises in everyday life. We had a training program, and did spiritual reaction, I saw quite a few people a week. And then I was a parent. Then, just because things got quiet, mom and I decided to adopt a sister. A Chinese sister, we went to china and we met [Lee-Joan?] And that was really a horrible, ugly, ugly American Time. We just felt so awful, Lee-Joan had lived with their biological mom for about a year, and she was left in a market, and then somebody found her and brought her to the police station. So she’s one year old and she’s in the orphanage system in china, which is really a very, not a very system. They put a couple kids per crib together; the poor babies don’t get much attention at all. But then she was in foster care and bonded to this other family, and they loved her. It was multi-generational, and they didn’t want to give her up. Of course we didn’t know all of this at the time. We were just wondering what happened to our baby because everyone else in the group had received their daughter, it was a couple days afterwards and we found out they, they went out to get her. And the foster mom had forced them, put them in a car and forced them to come to the Page 11 �hotel. I just received a knock on the door, and a baby was handed to me...it was Lee-Joan, and I hadn’t expected it that way. And the foster mom was just crying and crying. And we felt like the ugly American, who here are given a baby girl that was very, very happy. She wasn’t institutionalized, she was with a loving family and they wanted to adopt her, but the Chinese government wouldn’t let them. These foster parents still email us; I have a couple emails from them a couple times a year. And then we send pictures of Le Jone back to them. It was a year and half later when we went back and got Kaylee, your other sister... Now Kaylee, Kaylee was 18 months, and I forgot how old you were. And we...I went over with my sister, and mom stayed home to take care of you and Lee-Joan. First time we had left you we went to get Lee-Joan and left you with a couple and that really was very hard on you guys, and, the husband was. And especially trying to force you to eat food. I was not happy about that when we found this out...so we weren’t going to leave you with anybody this time. One of us was going to stay, and that was your mother. You and Lee-Joan were very, very close. She just ran to you the first time she saw you. And you just rolled around and were laughing and it was very, very warm and sweet. So Kaylee we picked up and we picked her up in a hall where all the other families had babies with 18 months old. I can tell that she was just different. That she were not like Lee-Joan, the sense that she wasn’t crying at all. The...the foster mother that she was with, the Chinese put them in foster care for...once they have match, they keep 'me with the foster mother for about 6 months before you come over and get all the paperwork...and finish the adoption. Then you stay in China for 2 weeks, just to acclimate. , that was very good. Kay was a character, she would just wave at people, shed just draw attention, they’d say she’s just so cute, and I’d draw attention cause were in a smaller town and there weren’t that many Americans. And most people in our party would leave the hotel, but Kaylee and I just went out all the time. This time I had her in a stroller 'cause I couldn’t carry her. On one trip we went to this Buddhist temple and she was on the bus and I was holding her. And she just started struggling to get away, she wanted to go outside and the bus was moving, and she just flipped forward and I threw out 2 vertebrae in my neck. It was so painful, I woke up the following morning, and my head was off to the side and couldn’t even stand up straight. Fortunately there as a chiropractor in our group and she kept putting it back and we flew the next day, flew out. It was a lot of pain and she was a handful. It was, long flight, like a 14 hour flight to come back to Seattle, but you met us with mom and Lee-Joan, as soon as we got off the gate and you guys just wrapped around Kaylee and holding her making her laugh and she was happy. She wasn’t happy on the trip over, but she was happy. And both of your sisters, cause the time is just the opposite. Both of your sisters for a month or so just didn’t sleep at night. They were awake. It took a while for them to get adjusted. Life was very good; it was a very nice place. You were going to a private school, and I had the girls, and worked on the house. I put a fence all the way around the property because I bought two donkeys at a school auction, thought it was a good idea at the time. But I put in a lot of work and a lot of money for those donkeys. Fenced in about an acre, big thick planks 'cause donkeys like to lean against the fence. And then I build ‘em a little barn. Around the house and our place there was a beautiful view, also we had 2 donkeys, we had chickens, what else did we have? Ducks, we had bunny rabbits, and a lot of slugs, about a herd of slugs. The only animal that would eat a slug was a duck. So we would laugh, you guys would just laugh watching duck trying to eat a giant slug, one of those banana slugs. Then we had little ducks running around, little chickens, little chicks running around. The chickens flew up in the tree. I had that sauna built, it was outside. It was built underneath these giant cedar trees. And the chickens went up in those trees, and those that couldn’t make it would Page 12 �not last into the season. The coyotes would get them. Then at night, we this big owl, and picked off a few of the chickens. One day, I remember hearing one of the chicks peeping really loud. And I kept looking around and couldn’t see him. And then I looked up and there was a crow flying with one of the chicks. And I chased after it, it went into the woods, and the woods were so thick I couldn’t follow it any further, but it was about a month after that that the chickens got even. A crow somehow got caught by the chickens, and the chickens killed it. All the chickens kept running in from all around the area, were pecking at it. And a large flock of crows starting coming. So there were the crows against the chickens, and the chickens won. Soon as the crow was more than dead, they just scratched and went back to their, the work of just eating bugs and laying eggs. That was a beautiful place. I just felt so peaceful there. We remodeled the kitchen; put a second floor on it. It got to be a huge project. I poured a lot of money into it. We were happy. Your aunt and uncle...uncle bonnie [Laughing] I mean Aunt Bonnie and Uncle Jim were close by and we had those two beaches just down the hill we could go to. There was a fishing pier; we had friends throughout the neighborhood. I remember all the kids would come by our little farm and just look at the animals and just watch them. In the morning some of the older people went for walks and would always bring carrots around for the donkeys, or apples. What do you remember the place? JFC: Just there was a lot of property. That just liked walking around. JAC: mm...yup. We had woods, we had pasture, had that big hill behind us. We made friends with our neighbors, Sam and Martha, and their daughter. Our girls got close to them. Sarah, Lee-Joan, and Kaylee just hung out all the time. They’d play in that hill between our two houses. Now they’re still close, they moved to Toronto and we still see each other, at least 3 or 4 times a year. And the girls are always talking on the phone, and now on the computer they do Skype. ... JFC: Well, I mean after that we moved to Michigan and we ... JAC: yup, we moved to Michigan. Your mother got a parish, it was, for me it was hard breaking because it was hard, I thought that was the house we were going to retire in. I poured so much of myself into it. Building a barn, a shed, a sauna, putting all the fences in. But, it seemed like it was time to go, so we moved to Michigan, were your mom’s the priest director at Saint John’s Church. And she’s pretty happy. She...she loves her work. You guys seemed to adjust pretty quick... you had the hardest time. It was middle school. You were starting 7th grade. You had an awful experience in 6th grade there at browns point. [Cough...] we never realized actually how horrible it was and ma was just tied up in her work so much, and I was tied up trying to save the Seabury school from going under financially. We just didn’t pick up on the...what was happening to you. You changed dramatically. JFC: well that’s alright. . Well, is there anything that , that you want to touch on. I don’t think...what...what ah, talk about, well you said you wanted to say some more about Bartonville. I don’t think I ever covered up what year you were born JAC: Oh yeah, I was born in 1946. Your grandpa was in china for a couple years and earned the point system. He was able to leave the theatre before the war was winding down. But they hadn’t dropped Page 13 �the bomb on japan at that time. But Germany, Europe, peace was over. They declared the war was needed in Europe. So the let him come home, where he had to fly in over the Himalayas. He was driven back. They made a road, a trail. So he was driving back on the road in a jeep. He got back, married your mother. He met my mother in a town called Bartonville, Illinois. That’s where she grew up. In a big 'ol farm house with two sisters. My father was stationed in Purea when he left Greenland. Where he went through training, working with these mules, he met the three sisters. And my grandfather and grandmother were old world hospitality. They would come on Sundays, 3 different men, and they would Sunday...Sunday... afternoon dinner together. And they did that for quite a few months. And all three sisters married the boys that they brought home for dinner. And throughout the war they wrote to each of them. So my father came back, got married, and took my mother to New Jersey where his family was, the Italian side of the family. Became pregnant, and that was me. I was born in in 1946 in October in jersey City, New Jersey. JFC: okay. . You good? JAC: yeah. JFC: Okay. END OF INTERVIEW Page 14 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7dc4b58386fee1ce5a7880e76ff87dcb.mp3 be051150223b91770862b4aba7835d39 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Cospito_Joseph Title A name given to the resource Joseph Cospito audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cospito, Joseph Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cospito, Justin Description An account of the resource Joseph Cospito likes working on his house, playing with his children, being a stay at home dad, and listening to books on audio tape. He is a retired science professor who is married to an episcopal priest. He discusses growing up in the fifties in Bartonville, Illinois. Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Discrimination Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-09 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9d6191c0577aa2a524a77bd6276dcbd1.pdf 8f083f87440300c39b3c8ff2cf88cc15 PDF Text Text ���� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW15495 Title A name given to the resource Joseph E. Bradford from Horatio T. Libby Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869-12-04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Libby, Horatio T. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Patent Office Engines Patents Machinists Portland (Me.) New York (N.Y.) Description An account of the resource Request from Horatio T. Libby, an engine machinist, that Joseph E. Bradford investigate a patent held by Henry Bailey. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b6cf327bd07fac51c1304892f7cf1a8d.pdf 7b6c9e13c6428272fdf3c865a1560efe PDF Text Text � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c03692ac4a44698a75be89065e299155.pdf 2c2c1a07d93205ee6ddc0a5a23a676ea PDF Text Text Department of the Interior Washington Jan. 8th, 1862 Sir, Your letter of the 7th instant enclosing the account for [?] of U.S. Grant ranks in Baltimore for the quarter ending Dec. 31, 1861 Amounting to the sum of $450 --- has been received and the acct. is returned herewith in order that your receipt may be appended as required by the regulations of the Department. Hereafter, in transmitting your bill for rect[?] of the [?] Rooms it will greatly facilitate the passage of the account and obviate the necessity of correspondence if the bill is regularly [?] by you, as will as certified by the U.S. Marshal. Very Respectfully Your Obt. Svt. Caleb B. Smith Secretary Joseph Robinson Esq. [?] Lodge of Md. Baltimore Md. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW1-4388 Title A name given to the resource Joseph Robinson from Caleb B. Smith Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1862-01-08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Department of the Interior Subject The topic of the resource Smith, Caleb B. (Caleb Blood), 1808-1864 United States--Politics and government--19th century United States. Department of the Interior Courthouses Washington (D.C.) Baltimore (Md.) Maryland Description An account of the resource Letter from the Secretary of the Interior discussing rental of rooms in the Baltimore court house. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a2f24ad2a1c3bb74d9590b07db489e5.mp3 507fb86c96550e04557c6b0b821b7f62 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Pentecost XII Series The Human Story: Paradigms of Grace Scripture Text Genesis 45:4, Romans 12:21, Matthew 5:44, 48 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19950827 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1995-08-27 Title A name given to the resource Joseph: Breaking the Cycle of Violence Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on August 27, 1995 entitled "Joseph: Breaking the Cycle of Violence", as part of the series "The Human Story: Paradigms of Grace", on the occasion of Pentecost XII, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Genesis 45:4, Romans 12:21, Matthew 5:44, 48. https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5155184a52b32781744b04ae2c1c852e.mp4 2ebafc5f19a213bf6c0e7c739852f272 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ef1fa10ad02f546f3a47302f3c0a9d1.pdf d57b9067e47f6336e118379f5ad40cdb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Era James Jouppi 1:35:52 Introduction (00:42)               Jim was born in Long Island, New York on December 10, 1948. Before he went to school, his father was in the Marine Corps and the family moved to Newport, Virginia when his father was called into service during Korea. They also lived in North Carolina, New York and eventually made contact with the automobile industry in Detroit. The family moved back to New York, where Jim went to high school at Concordia Prep in Bronxville. (02:11) It was an all boy’s prep school, and Jim graduated in 1966. After high school, Jim went to Cornell. He did not know what he wanted to do, but he was good at math and science. He also applied to MIT, but was not admitted. He flunked out his freshman year. Because he did not want to be drafted, his father sent him to Transylvania College in Lexington, Kentucky. Jim stayed there for one year, before going back to Cornell. He graduated with a degree in Civil Engineering To learn more about the Vietnam War, Jim joined the Vietnamese Mobilization Committee. (05:11) The group did not protest, but instead researched and studied the war and shared the truth. Jim was opposed to the Vietnam War because it was not about the people, he felt that it was really a war against communism and the Russians, and was just fought in Vietnam. Jim graduated from Cornell in 1971. Two weeks after he graduated, he received his draft notice and had to report to the draft board and was given his physical. (07:09) During the process, he was denied conscientious objector status because he was a Lutheran and that was not a passive religion. Jim had a medical problem with his hand that he wanted to have checked out, so instead of going to basic training, he was given a voucher to stay at a hotel next door to the draft board office. He was also given food vouchers and train fare for him to go and get his medical record. The doctor checked out his hand and said that he could give him a six month deferment and then be drafted or be drafted now. He chose to take the deferment. (09:32) Peace Corps (10:17)  Jim was inducted into the Peace Corps in August. He drove a taxi for five weeks before he joined. �          Prior to his departure, he took a bus to Detroit to visit his parents and then went to San Jose, California and left for Thailand. Jim was interested in joining the Peace Corps because he wanted to do something with his life. He tried out with the Environmental Protection Agency, but failed due to his poor eyesight. When he joined the Peace Corps, he was 1A, and could have been drafted at any time. At the time, the Peace Corps had five areas they worked in, Asia, South America and Africa were some of them. He did not have a preference, but was sent to Thailand. (12:55) Jim’s group was the first to be trained entirely in country. Before leaving, they went to San Francisco and rode the trolley cars. When they left, they had an unexpected overnight stay in Hong Kong. Everything was very nice and they stayed at a luxury hotel which was top notch. (14:26) They arrived in Thailand in the middle of the night, now one day late, and the Peace Corps staff was there at the airport to greet them and put lei’s around their necks and welcomed them. Jim was then taken to a policemen’s resort to undergo his training. The group consisted of eleven engineers and construction volunteers and one agriculturist. The agricultural volunteer could not figure out why he was there with the civil engineers. Jim later found out that the man was approached by the CIA and was asked to join but he had already joined the Peace Corps. The man was sent home and joined a different group. (16:45) Thailand (17:20)            The training that the group was given included survey work, drafting, blueprint design, and building spill ways for drainage water. Since they did not have any earth moving equipment, everything had to be dug by hand. One cubic meter, per villager, per day. They also had intensive language courses, which lasted six hours a day, with only an hour or two devoted to the technical aspects. (19:41) Jim was also taken around to some of the temples and received other cultural training. The training program lasted eight weeks, and once he completed it, they were sent to a northern province for two weeks to conduct a practice project. (21:32) During the project, the Thai military came and guarded the interpreters for reasons that Jim never figured out. Twenty to thirty soldiers came everyday. After that, they were sent to Bangkok and were sworn in, and then they were given their actual assignments. Jim was stationed on the Mekong River in north east Thailand (23:43) The Peace Corps informed them that they were employed by the Thai Government, but the government did not know why they were there. One volunteer was developing an urban homestead, and improved the house and built a water system creating running water. (26:26) To keep track of the workers, paperwork was often filed, and they were given per diem for being there even though no real work was being done. (28:50) �                   Most of the forms were not filled out truthfully, because the men felt it was a joke and just something they had to do, which caused some tension between Jim and the others. (30:07) Jim was planning several projects, but when they were about to begin, the Thai Foreign Service officer said they didn’t want them to be done, so four of the six projects that year were cancelled. For the other projects that year, Jim gave one to his friend who wanted to get away from his wife for a couple of months and the sixth was the least funded of all of them but it turned out pretty well. (32:52) Jim had a good relationship with the locals, including a village head man, whom he stayed with. The head man's wife cooked food for them, and Jim would bring her food from the market because he did not care for the local cuisine of locusts, frogs and red ants that they would often eat. Jim could speak central Thai, which was different than the dialect of where he was staying. By smoking marijuana, Jim learned that the awkwardness of the situation went away while he was high, so he smoked it with his G.I. buddies. (34:54) He would also smoke from a communal bong, which helped break down the cultural barriers that they had. The work he was doing was in 1973. Other work that was done, involved paid workers from another adjoining province. Jim always wondered how they could afford that, and he later learned the CIA was working out of the province that the workers had come from. (38:06) The American presence was high within the towns and city centers. The G.I.s had no restrictions, except a midnight curfew. Where Jim was, they had 52 G.I. bars. The girls that went into the bars had to have a valid VD card (Venereal Disease) to make sure they did not have any diseases that could be transferred to the servicemen. To get into a bar without having their cards checked, the women would often ask Jim to accompany them into the bar, because girls with an American did not have to show their cards. (40:18) VD was a fairly big problem, and Jim contracted it twice himself. The servicemen could live off of base in a pretty nice place for only fifty dollars a month. And sometimes a couple of men would share it. The houses had electricity, and piped water, but would not have a refrigerator or a flush toilet. The Air Force had a Civic Action zone ten miles around the base. They had particular interest there and watched for communists. (42:34) Roads were built and maintained there and bridges were also built. Jim also sponsored an English speaking school, but he was not allowed to teach so he got G.I.’s to teach the classes. The Air Force also hosted the MEDCAP (Medical Civil Action Program) which provided medical and dental attention to the locals. (44:50) Jim lived outside of town a couple of miles and had a big two story home. He also had a motorcycle, which he drove into town. His house did not have electricity or running water. �     The adjustment to the lower standard of living was easy for Jim. He was considered to be wealthy in Thailand. (46:47) The standard tour for the Peace Corps is two years, with many people serving in Thailand extending to stay longer. Thailand had the highest extension rate out of any other country at that time. (48:29) The rate of extension was higher for men than women. Jim believes this is because of the cultural perceptions that Thai men held for women. (50:02) Jim always believed that women of good standing would not be socially interested in the Americans there, but he was approached by two at a bar one day and they said they wanted to get to know him, which was unusual. The two wanted to teach him Thai, and he found himself attached to one of them and he extended for a third year. She was a government worker who had a law degree from one of the best universities in Thailand. (52:50) Back in the States (54:43)              Jim left Thailand in 1973 after being there for three years. His goal was to get a job and bring his Thai girlfriend to the states. He found employment as a civil engineer trainee in Denver, Colorado. Jim wrote to her everyday and asked her to come and live with him. However, she was never able to come. Jim found out that the Peace Corps director had very close ties to the CIA, and was there to keep the Peace Corps from interfering in the war effort in Vietnam. (56:32) This country director terminated early and left almost exactly when President Nixon resigned. While still in country, Jim feels that the American people had no idea what they were doing nor did they care. (58:47) Once, Jim asked the headman if the main road going into town was safe from the communists. (1:00:23) The headman would never leave his water buffalo out at night because he was afraid of the communists stealing it. The headman also believed there were ghosts that lived along the road because there was no village around. While driving back to the village early one morning he spotted a taunt wire that went across the entire road that was pinned to the ground on both sides, below it were strange coiled wires. (1:04:45) Jim went back to the headman and alerted him that it was there. He thought that it was a communist land mine, and he wanted to send other villagers to guard it while he went to the Air Base for help. The headman called a town meeting and told Jim that it was simply a rabbit trap and not a mine. (1:07:12) Jim was very embarrassed and went back up the road to where he had seen the rabbit trap and saw a boy from the village taking it down. Today, Jim believes that the communist insurgency was trumped up by the CIA for various reasons. (1:09:59) When he was back in the states, he did not have a marketable skill and he did not want to pursue civil engineering. � He later joined the Army when he was thirty four years old; to get G.I. Bill benefits and then went to the Post Office. (1:13:08) Joining the Army (1:13:34)                Jim did not want to join, but he had a friend that was in and said that if he could get a medical job it would be like any other job, but with good benefits. The recruiter only had a quota of two people per month. Jim conducted his basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. When he did his field training his roommate said that it was thirty below. He became a medic and had his advanced training at Fort Sam Houston in Texas. (1:15:33) Jim’s first permanent duty station was in Germany for a year and a half and then he was stationed in Alabama for the last year of his service. He served a total of three years. He enlisted in the Army in November 1983. In basic training, the other recruits viewed him as the old man. Some of the recruits were from the streets and had no discipline at all. Those recruits were weeded out quickly. The other men he was with were very supportive. (1:17:02) While in Germany, he was stationed in Kitzingen near Heidelberg. Jim earned the field medical badge while stationed in Germany. In basic training, the recruits were told that war had broken out and that they were going to be sent there, but it was a trick the Drill Sergeants played on the recruits. (1:19:37) The Americans could go into the Soviet territory and the Soviets could go into American territory, and there was no real fear from a war with the Soviet Union. One of the NCO’s at Fort Leonard Wood was a Vietnam veteran, Jim also served with a man in Germany that served two tours in Vietnam. (1:21:36) When Jim was in Germany, the locals did not really care for the Americans. The women would not throw themselves at Americans like what he encountered in Thailand. (1:23:14) He tried to learn the language, but he could not speak it around the airbase because everyone spoke English. Civilian Life (1:24:40)        After Jim was discharged from the service, he worked for [CFAT], which was a company that prepared missionaries going out into the field. (1:25:34) He stayed there for a year, then moved to Grand Rapids and went to the Jordan Energy Institute, which did not turn out well because there was not much market at the time. In 1988, Jim went to England and studied Tropical Public Health Civil Engineering and obtained his Master’s Degree. After that, he applied to the Peace Corps again once he returned to the states but was turned down because he was too political. Then he got a job at the Post Office. (1:27:06) Jim has been back to Thailand several times. Jim was married in 2002 to his pen pal that he had been in contact with. �      Thailand is quite different now than it was then. They have electricity, telephones and running water. He went back in 1985, when plane tickets were not so expensive. He visited again in 1997, 2007 and 2012. On his last visit, he met up with the headman that he worked with during the Peace Corps, and he still remembered him. (1:29:48) When he was there, he saw that the government has issued large water urns that collect rain water, which gives the people a clean source of fresh water to use and drink. During all the times he was there, he has never had any health problems. Except when he first arrived, he got Montezuma’s Revenge, but has never gotten it since. (1:31:23) Jim feels that his time in the Peace Corps was important, and also feels that glorifying war should not be done. Instead, he feels that people should be sent to foreign countries to help the people, not kill them. He does not feel patriotism about watching Memorial Day services, and does not feel like the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are protecting him. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JouppiJ1486V Title A name given to the resource Jouppi, James (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jouppi, James Description An account of the resource James was born on Long Island, December 10, 1948. His father was in the Marine Corps and served in Korea. The family moved around during his childhood but they eventually settled back in New York. After graduating from high school in 1966, Jim went to Cornell University. He flunked out and tried another school to avoid the draft. He later graduated from Cornell with a degree in Civil Engineering. He joined the Peace Corps in 1971 and was stationed in Thailand. After being there for three years, he returned home and eventually joined the United States Army and served as a medic in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Peace Corps (U.S.) Vietnam Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f742aa537b078780033ef7e13a086539.pdf d81960265235f52ac041368b5da95c17 PDF Text Text Journey With Us Toward New Horizons Text: Genesis 12:1; Hebrews 11:8, 10 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan September 13, 1998 Transcription of the spoken sermon This is always a wonderful Sunday for us. There is a vibrancy in the air and electricity; there is anticipation, and so we have a moment again of new beginnings - new beginnings for the church year, for the educational year, for a new intentionality and seriousness in making this place a place of deep reflection, a place of education, study, taking faith seriously and trying to create a whole congregation of theologians. The invitation this year is COME, JOURNEY WITH US - Toward New Horizons. The image is that of the journey, which is a biblical image, very common biblical image of the life of faith, the pilgrimage of faith. And, Toward New Horizons - it is always so for the people of God, always called, as was Abraham, to go into the future, claiming the future by faith, with confidence, because of the one who calls us. Today I want to think with you about thinking the faith, about the serious wrestling with the Christian tradition, so that it is more than a matter of rote, recitation, and simple perfunctory, habitual action, but that it is that which arises out of the center of our being and is pursued with dedication and commitment, with seriousness. Next week Peter will talk to you about another aspect of that journey, which is the whole matter of spiritual formation, for it is not enough to think the faith. There is a hunger within all of us for the experience of God, the experience of faith. On the third week, Bob will call you to compassionate action, because the faith that we think and the God that we experience is not simply a luxury to be enjoyed in splendid isolation, but is that which shapes us and forms us to be instruments of God for the carrying out of God’s purpose of compassion and justice and love in this world. So, it is a time of new beginning. At Christ Community, we are on a journey. It has ever been so. But, it is so in a new, serious manner as we speak, because we have a new charter of freedom and a great opportunity to find that translation of the Christian tradition that finds resonance with our contemporary experience. That is what we are trying to do. As Gary Eberle, in his book, The Geography of Nowhere, has said, "The old maps don’t work anymore. The early cartography you’ve seen in books, the shape of a world as it was conceived, those maps were wrong. They were based on an © Grand Valley State University   �Journey With Us to New Horizons Richard A. Rhem Page 2   inadequate understanding of the physical universe. But the mapmakers did, in the forming of those maps, have a sense of orientation, and those maps did help people to have an understanding of where they were in the world. We know today that those old maps are archaic. They’re simply wrong. And today we have this global positioning system where you can be steaming in a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan and turn that on and from a satellite it will point out exactly where you are. In such a day, in such an age where we can pinpoint our location on the planet, we recognize that there are many of us who don’t really know where we are. Because the old institutions have crumbled, and the old authority structures have been called into question. Just to create a little envy in those of you who aren’t going with us to Geneva this afternoon, where we’ll spend a few days with the ghost of John Calvin over our shoulder, and then, if you really want to get jealous, I would tell you that we’re going down to Provence in the south of France, to lollygag on the Riviera. But, on the way down, we’ll stop at Avignon and, in order to prepare a little bit for that for the people going with us, I was reading again of that old church history and was reminded that it was in the 1300s that the papacy moved out of Rome and moved to the south of France, Avignon, and one of the old wonders that we’ll visit and tour in another week is the Palace of the Popes, and it’s a very splendid place, I understand. I have not seen it. But, the Palace of the Popes in Avignon was a sign of the wealth of the papacy in the 1300s. This was the age of the domination of the church and the papal structure found ways to tax and charge fees and to gain money by hook or by crook, so that the income of one of those popes in those 60 or 70 years in which the papacy was in Avignon was better than three times that of the king of France. (I’d always thought I’d wanted to be a Cardinal, but I think I might as well go all the way and try to be a pope). My point in bringing this up is that, in this time, the Pope was the most powerful person on earth. He was a religious figure and the church dominated the continent of Europe, and the kings groveled before the papal authority because the papal authority had the keys of the kingdom. The papal authority could excommunicate a person and shut them out of heaven. Or, on the other hand, open the gates of paradise. Think of it. That was the world. The king groveled before the Pope because he believed that the church was a divine institution on this earth that literally controlled the gates of the kingdom. Now, if you have that kind of power, you can do anything you want to, and you can control the masses, let alone the monarchs of the earth. That was the world; that was what was believed. The kings groveled before the religious authority, and it works if you believe it. And, if you believe it and you have a dominating religious figure, you can control society, you can manage people, you can manage morality, for example. They say that Moscow was a very moral place during the heyday of the Communist regime. Dictators, potentates, totalitarian powers can control people, and there are those who believe that people need to be controlled. There, in Avignon, is a palace to witness to the power and the authority of the religious authority that dominated the world. © Grand Valley State University �Journey With Us to New Horizons Richard A. Rhem Page 3   But also in Geneva is the memorial to the Reformation in which that institution that had grown corrupt and fat began to crumble before the waves of reform. But, even the Reformation would still, on the basis of authority, make the Bible the authoritarian power that the Pope was in the Catholic communion. John Calvin did everything he could with the elders of Geneva to control the morality of Geneva. Authoritarian power and domination. Well, is it any wonder that once that institutional form began to shatter that the human spirit eventually emerged to a point where it threw off all kinds of authoritarian hold? Isn’t it humanly understandable, isn’t it perfectly obvious, human beings being who human beings are, that, where there is a crack or a fissure in the structure and the daylight comes through, it will go like this? And so we have the Age of Reason and we have the ascendency of the human intellect and the honoring of human rationality to a fault, as we know in our postmodern age, where we have come to recognize that the rational depiction of reality is only a model and a fiction, as a matter of fact, and the human mind and human rationality cannot get itself around the mystery that is life, the ultimate mystery. Nonetheless, we are the products of that move to the modern and we are people who take for granted that non-authoritarian way of living. Modern society will no longer tolerate a church or a book or a tradition that shuts down its mind and simply calls it blindly to follow through the labyrinths of life. Robert Bellah, one of the most acute observers of society, a sociologist in this country, in an essay about religious evolution, cited Tom Paine, at the Age of Reason, who said, "My mind is the church," and Thomas Jefferson who said, "I am a sect." Then Robert Bellah went on to say that the modern period has come to accept the fact that people will join themselves voluntarily to institutions. There is no compulsion for you to be here, to be a member of this institution, and one of the marks of the church in our day is that its voluntary nature is recognized. There is no longer that coercion. If you live in this block, you are not automatically a member of this parish, and therefore coerced to be a part of its institution. Robert Bellah says that private, voluntary, religious association in the west achieved full legitimation for the first time in the early modern situation. But then he goes on to say, in the full flowering of modernity, will there be another kind of institutional structure that will be able to encompass the freedom, even the autonomy of the human person? Will we find some kind of institutional forms that will be supportive and helpful and give guidance and direction, but apart from the kind of authoritarian control that was imposed from the outside? He says, rather than interpreting these trends, this fragmentation in society where we go our own way and start our own clubs and our own denominations and our own congregations - rather than interpreting these terms as significant of indifference, of secularization, I see in them the increasing acceptance of the notion that individuals must work out their own ultimate solutions and that the most the church can do is provide a favorable environment for doing so without imposing on them a prefabricated set of answers. © Grand Valley State University �Journey With Us to New Horizons Richard A. Rhem Page 4   Bellah says in the modern situation, the contemporary situation, it is the task of the church to create here an arena, an ambience for the pursuit of the religious quest, for the asking of the questions, for the struggle and the wrestling with the issues of life, but no longer will it be tolerated that we impose upon you a prefabricated structure of belief. That’s the way it was. That’s the way traditionally it has been, and it will not work anymore, and we are simply at that cutting age where we have accepted that fact, we celebrate that fact, and we invite you to journey with us into a future that is unknown and uncharted, because that is the very nature of the human pilgrimage of faith. Bellah says it remains to be seen whether the freedom modern society implies at the cultural and personal, as well as the social level, can be stably institutionalized in large-scale societies. Yet, the very situation that has been characterized as one of the collapse of meaning and the failure of moral standards can also, and I would argue, more fruitfully, be viewed as one offering unprecedented opportunities for creative innovation in every sphere of human action. Now, that’s the very same note that was sounded earlier when I read that excerpt from Gary Eberle. Will there be, out in the future, some reconfiguration of the institutional life of the human family that will be able to embrace our questions and our quest? Who knows? But, one thing we know - you cannot go back to yesterday. To go back to yesterday, you might as well go back to Avignon. You might try to re-invent a world where the Pope can subdue the king or the President. But it won’t work. And I don’t want to go back to such a world. I want to be able to think. I want my own belief and my own faith to rise out of the center of my own being; I want to believe what I believe. I want to be able to think about it so that what I believe is what I really think, so that I really believe it, so that it’s a reflection of the authenticity of my humanness. No one is going to put it on me. Not an institution, not a book, not a tradition. I’ll use the institution for every value it has; I’ll value this book and study it and mine its treasures; I’ll respect that tradition and gain all of its wisdom, all the wisdom I can from it. But, it will finally be my journey, my pilgrimage, my faith, my insight, because it’s my life! And I invite you to journey with me, and to think about it, so that it is a thought-full journey of faith. I’m afraid that in many churches today, the situation in our country will be berated and the President will be berated and all of that despair will be everywhere. Well, that’s the very time for the people of God, recognizing our total vulnerability, all of us, recognizing the weakness in the heart and center of all of us, recognizing that the decay and the distortion that is present everywhere is not the consequence of some fall from perfection, but is simply the clinging of the slime and the mud from which we’re emerging. I believe in the future! Because I believe in God! I believe in the human family because I believe the Spirit of God is nudging us, beckoning us ever onward. I believe in a world of the future marked by justice and by grace and by compassion because that’s in this book. This book tells me that the image is the journey. We © Grand Valley State University �Journey With Us to New Horizons Richard A. Rhem Page 5   are on the way. Abraham was called to go out, not knowing where he was going to go. He was 75 years old and married to a barren woman. When God would start a new beginning out of the chaos of Genesis, of the garden scene, of the flood scene, of the Babel scene - when God would start a new beginning, when God would form a people, he starts with human impossibility; he starts with an old man and a barren womb in order to create newness. And the writer to the Hebrews was writing to an early church in the wake of Jesus. People who were followers of Jesus, but who were getting weak knees, who looked about them and were becoming dismayed, who didn’t know if they could hold on anymore, and he said, "Hold on. Be strong. Faith is the conviction of things not seen, it is the evidence of things hoped for." Look at old Abraham. Look at Sarah. They went out; they didn’t know where they were going, but they simply heard the voice of God and they followed to be the people of God. To be a biblical people is to be a people not settled, not fixed, not set in concrete. It is to be a people who are on pilgrimage, who don’t know what the future holds, who are willing to take all the tradition and all the wisdom of the book and all of the institutional forms and use them for all they’re worth, but to submit to none of them, not to submit one’s mind and one’s heart. It is to be a person who believes, who thinks and who goes, confident, because God is God. That’s where we’re going, by God. Then, don’t despair. Don’t let your tail drag. Stiffen the weak knees. Let there be a glint in your eye. Believe in the future; believe in possibilities; believe and know, as Bob offered in his prayer, that we create our future because we recognize that we don’t stand here as puppets on a string, but as responsible human beings who are called to journey and faith toward new horizons with confidence and joy. References: Robert Bellah, “Religion in Human Evolution,” American Sociological Review, 1964. Gary Eberle. The Geography of Nowhere: Finding Oneself in the Postmodern World. Sheed and Ward, 1995. © Grand Valley State University � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6b9904f980350aae45c887eb22ca4d2f.mp3 50fc5e996b23d211fb70cbb1f8fde47f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Pentecost XV Scripture Text Genesis 12:1, Hebrews 11,8,10 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI References Robert Bellah, "Religion in Human Evolution," American Sociological Review, 1964 Gary Eberle. The Geography of Nowhere: Finding Oneself in the Postmodern World, 1995. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19980913 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1998-09-13 Title A name given to the resource Journey With Us Toward New Horizons Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on September 13, 1998 entitled "Journey With Us Toward New Horizons", on the occasion of Pentecost XV, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Genesis 12:1, Hebrews 11,8,10. Authority History of Church Journey of Faith Modernity https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1954856bd4028a6df1c980f1e57c97de.pdf fa3868b783ddc30c9d07ff330a63dddf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Darin Jousma Yugoslav Wars & War on Terror 9 minutes 1 second (00:00:13) Early Life -Lived with his parents before enlisting in the Army -Had a part-time job when he was in high school (00:00:32) Enlisting in the Army & Training -Enlisted in the Army in the summer of 1997 after graduating from high school -Joined the infantry because he liked the idea of being an infantryman -Training was extremely rough -Never experienced treatment like that before (00:01:22) Stationed in Bosnia -Deployed to Bosnia as part of a peacekeeping force in 1998 -Inspected weapons bunkers and made sure the Serbs were not moving weapons -No combat -Remembers going to confiscate weapons from a group of Serbian troops -The Serbs pulled their weapons and pointed them at the American troops -American troops radioed in two Apache helicopters to circle the area -Show of force against the Serbs to show they were no longer in charge -Serbs dropped their weapons and walked away (00:03:13) Downtime in the Army -Read a lot of books -Played a lot of video games -Played cards with friends (00:03:26) Friends in the Army -Made lifelong friends in the Army -Drives across the country just to see them (00:03:45) Contact with Home -When he was at the barracks in Germany he had access to telephones -Spent a lot of money on phone cards and calling-collect -Now, he has Skype and voice chat virtually anywhere in the world (00:04:27) Stationed in Kuwait -Got to Kuwait just before Thanksgiving 2004 -Celebrated Thanksgiving and Christmas 2004 in Kuwait -Wasn't too difficult -Didn't like being away from home for his birthday though -Had his birthday in Kuwait shortly before being sent home (00:05:21) Skills in the Army -Learned a lot about IT in the Army -Proved useful in the civilian world (00:06:02) Current Service Pt. 1 -As of the interview, Darin is in the Michigan National Guard (00:06:11) Coming Home -Returning from a deployment is one of the best moments of your life -Strange to return to a world with hot showers and flushing toilets �-One thing he missed about deployments was being around and working with close friends (00:07:13) Stationed at Fort Riley -Spent a couple years at Fort Riley, Kansas -Assigned to the 2nd of the 78th Armor -Most likely 2nd Battalion -Served as the unit commander's driver -Fantastic job -First job he had in the Army where he had a lot of control over his daily schedule -Mingled with high-ranking officers and saw the command process (00:08:16) Current Service Pt. 2 -Currently a 2nd lieutenant in the Michigan National Guard -Will be promoted to 1st lieutenant one month from the interview's date � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JousmaD1843V Title A name given to the resource Jousma, Darin Richard (Interview outline), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-02-11 Description An account of the resource Darin Jousma enlisted in the Army in the summer of 1997 after graduating from high school. He served in Bosnia in 1998 as part of a peacekeeping force helping with the confiscation of weapons and stopping Serbian forces from moving weaponry and ordnance around the country. He was stationed in Kuwait in 2004. He spent a few years at Fort Riley, Kansas with the 2nd Battalion, 78th Armored Regimant and worked as a commander's driver. As of the time of the interview he is in the Michigan National Guard with the rank of 2nd lieutenant and expects to be promoted to 1st lieutenant. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jousma, Darin Richard Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jousma, Josh (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f541f87e91cbccb45f5c93f18a8f89fb.mp3 0ab57608112ece42c54f600daa935fa0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/adbb14109bedcf5328cdbc65e9f66a16.pdf 2dbd05d34b50f028b0e1a2cb748bb926 PDF Text Text Joy Muehlenbeck and Jerry Elsinga- Interview by Jean Osmond October 4, 2018 0:02 JO: I am Jean Osmond, and I am here today to interview Joy and Jerry Muehlenbeck. And we are at the Old School House. It is Thursday October the 4 th, and 19, sorry. 2018. I’d better get my dates correct here. And this oral history is selected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for Humanities Common Heritage Program. And I thank both of you for coming here to talk to me today. 0:37 JM: Welcome. 0:37 JE: Did you want my last name? 0:38 JO: I should have all, I should apologize here. I’ve known both Joy and Jerry as Muehlenbecks, but it’s still Joy Muehlenbeck, but it is Jury Muehlenbeck and she’s going to say it for us right now and spell it 0:53 JE: Elsinga. 0:54 JO: Ok. And spell Elsinga for me please. 0:56 JE: E-L-I-S-I-N-G-A 1:00 JO: mm hm. And Joy would you spell Muehlenbeck too, because that’s, uh, kind of a toughie name 1:04 JM: [laugh] True. M-U-E-H-L-E-N-B-E-C-K 1:13 JO: Ok. And here we’ve got the two of them and they are going to share their information as to what they remember when they came here and when you both came up from the Chicago area, correct? 1:25 JM: yes 1:25 JE: yes 1:25 JM: Our parents bought, um, home in, uh, in this area. Actually it was on, at that time it was called Hooter Road, but, um, it’s now 66th street. 1:39 JO: Hooter was a better name [laugh] 1:39 JM: [laugh] �1:40 JM: And they bought it in 1945. But we didn’t move until 1955. Um, Dad was working, we were all living in Chicago. My dad was working in Chicago. He was working for Oscar Meyer as a driver, and they knew he had property in Michigan, and so they offered him the opportunity to move and continue working for Oscar Meyer. So he would meet, um a loaded truck, a full truck of meats in the morning, south of here, and he’d take the full truck and deliver to south western Michigan, and then he would return the empty truck the next morning for the full truck. And that’s the way it worked for several years. Later on he decided he wanted to again unite with some union job and so, he um, found another job in Chicago and um, came out on the weekends. At that time, uh, a train ran out of Chicago to Fennville. Stopped in Fennville. So we’d pick him up from the depot and return him on Sunday night, and he would go back to work, and we could continue living here. 2:53 JO: Oh 2:54 JM: So we lived in the area, had home in the area since 45, came up weekends, shoo the mice out of the house 3:00 JE: [laugh] 3:01 JM: And, and then we moved in 55. And and at time I had already graduated, I had just graduated from Chicago High School in 55, but Jerry was to have gone in the second half in the seventh grade in Chicago. They did A and B, and she would have gone into the second half, uh, but not having that arrangement here in Douglas, um, maybe, I don’t know if they gave her a test or not but, I think they took a chance on her being able to handle eighth grade and so. 3:37 JO: All they had to do Joy was just look at her and say she’s an eighth grader, and for this, this was just Joy speaking, but now we’re going to have Jerry, and you’ll be able to tell the differences in their voices as to who’s who. That was Joy, and now Jerry, what is your reaction to this? 3:52 JE: [pause]. Well. We lived on Hooter road like she said. 66th Street, and I remember coming out here, and the first thing, especially if it was in the winter my dad always had Glog on hand. 4:13 JO: What is Gluck? 4:15 JE: Glog is a wine— 4:18 JO: G-L-O-G! Oh! 4:23 JE: Glog. Yes 4:23 JO: Ok �4:23 JE: So we could warm u 4:25 JO: uh huh 4:26 JE: Because we did not have heat on. It was a summer home, so if we came out in the winter that was the way we warmed up quick 4:35 JO: [laugh] 4:37 JE: And I’m surprised Joy remembered that. Or if she did she wouldn’t say 4:40 JM: Oh I didn’t I didn’t know if we wanted to talk about our drinking on this 4:44 JE: [laugh] 4:44 JO: [laugh] 4:45 JM: On the, on this program. That was the thing, so. 4:51 JE: Oh, but it was fun. It was, uh, an old fashioned house that, um, we had to go outside for our water, a pump 5:00 JO: Oo. 5:00 JE: And we had an outhouse. And for a while we had an outhouse. 5:05 JO: One seater or two seater? 5:07 JM: I think it was a one seater [laugh] 5:07 JE: One seater. Yes. But, the first tornado, which we did not know was a real tornado, that hit, and my aunt was out here for that specific weekend. I remember I was, oh gosh. If I was 8, 9, 10. I’m not sure. But it was horrendous wind outside. And my aunt and I had used the, john 5:43 JO: [laugh] 5:44 JE: And we went out there with our head down because the wind was so horrendous. And when we lifted our head up, we did not have a potty. 5:56 JO: [gasp] it blew away 5:57 JE: and we couldn’t find it �6:00 JO: [laugh] 6:00 JE: So that’s a story that I’ll never forget. [laugh] So. It was a very scary evening. But it was worse when you couldn’t even go potty. 6:16 JM: Yeah, but you remember when you came back into the house just in tears “Oh the toilet blew away,” and our dad said “Well the hole was there, wasn’t it?” 6:28 JO: [laugh] 6:30 JE: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. 6:32 JM: He said 6:32 JO: Your dad is practical [laugh] 6:34 JM: The other thing about that old outhouse, uh, since you’re talking about it was, um, my mom would send us out sometimes to throw some leftover food, and she’d normally throw in the garbage, and she’d say “Throw it down the hole, and don’t lose the spoon!” She 6:52 JO: [laugh] 6:53 JM: was always the last thing she’d say to me. And I remember one time going out there, and dog gone it I was holding the spoon tightly and slightly, and what happened was I lost the bowl. 7:05 JO: But she didn’t tell you not to lose the bowl. 7:07 JM: No. 7:08 JO: [laugh] 7:10 JE: And a follow up on the houses. My father lived, uh, where would you call that area? 7:17 JM: That was the Hamilton or the new, east Saugatuck area before you go into Hamilton, yeah. 7:23 JE: And he had three pole barns 7:26 JM: uh, 138 7:26 JE: Yeah. �7:26 JO: Oo 7:26 JE: And he obv, he always slept in his, um, what was it, a trailer. And um 7:36 JM: Camper 7:37 JE: Camper and trailer, yeah. And one day he had that fixed up. I mean this was an outhouse. Three holes 7:48 JO: Oo 7:48 JE: And he had uh, a sink. But of course no running water. So it was just a sink, and he decorated it and it was all. So, I remember using it one time. And I opened the door. I sat down and, closing the door I sat down, and all of a sudden this statue--- w--- what’d you call it? 8:15 JM: He called it the kilroy 8:18 JE: Kilroy. 8:19 JM: It was a dummy. 8:19 JO: [laugh] 8:19 JE: In the corner of that outhouse. Inside 8:24 JO: Oh my. 8:25 JE: Oh. I’ll tell you, I, I did not like Kilroy. No. Uh uh. Kilroy was not my favorite. So anyway. That’s the story of that. But then all of a sudden, one time he did not have his truck, the brake on correctly or something like that. And before he knew it, it backed up and it took out his outhouse. 8:52 JO: Three seater, huh? And Kilroy? 8:54 JE: And Kilroy [laugh] 8:55 JO: [laugh] 8:57 JM: But, knowing my dad his simple re, response to that was just to hang a sign on it said “Out of order” 9:05 JO: [laugh] I know where you two grew a sense of humor. 9:10 JM: He was funny �9:12 JO: That’s 9:13 JE: He was funny 9:13 JO: So happened all the time before you lived up here permanently then. 9:17 JM: No, that, uh, when we, uh, in 55 when we moved uh, uh, actually we, then the house was sold in uh, 69. Then he had his own place. He left the place on Hooter Road when our mother had died. And, uh, so then they had lived in the camper which he had moved onto property, his own property three buildings. And that was on, uh, 38 th, where she’s talking the, the outhouse. We had two outhouses. The outhouse where we lived when we first moved, and then later on when dad lived alone, he moved to property where, um, had had an outhouse there too. 10:00 JE: Now. I might have to correct you on one thing. 10:04 JM: One thing only. 10:05 JE: One thing. All right. Kilroy belonged in Chicago. 10:12 JM: Yeah, but I didn’t 10:12 JE: Where he had his bar in Chicago 10:15 JM: I think he moved it 10:17 JE: Yeah. It was a woman, in the, in the one on the other one. 10:20 JM: Oh. It wasn’t Kilroy. 10:23 JE: No, it was, had a, woman 10:24 JM: It, it was a dummy of a sort 10:25 JO: [laugh] 10:26 JE: In the corner. There. And we finally said “You have to dress her, you know?” But in Chicago he had a bar. 10:38 JM: And that’s where he had Kilroy 10:40 JE: And Kilroy was this mannequin dressed in a tux. 10:45 JO: Oh my word �10:48 JE: I was only what, 5, 3, 4, 5 years old. And I was terrified of Kilroy. He would take Kilroy and tie it to the front of his car and go through Chicago wherever he had to go. 11:06 JO: [laugh] 11:07 JE: And Kilroy was lying on top his 11:08 JO: On the trunk? I mean 11:09 JE: On the hood 11:09 JO: On the hood. 11:10 JE: On the side 11:11 JO: Oh my 11:13 JE: And the, then, you know, my mom said to my dad “Never, ever have Kilroy around when Jerry comes cause she’s terrified of Kilroy.” He forgot or, my, my mom came in surprisingly, I don’t know what it was, but I opened the bathroom door and there sat Kilroy on my toilet 11:36 JO: [laugh] 11:38 JE: And I’ll never forget that. Never 11:43 JM: The, the reason that um that our parents came up into this area was the fact that, um our mom had been born in a southern Illinois town. And after, um, her parents were no longer living. Um, at age 16, she went to Chicago to get employment. And uh, found that a bakery, a local bakery was advertising for a worker. So she applied there and she was going to work the counter within this bakery, um, and when they got to know her and like her and so on, they said “Rather than being a clerk for us, would you consider being a nanny?” They had some young children. 12:22 JO: Oh. 12:24 JM: So. She accepted that, that responsibility and that became like a family to her, being as young as she was. And then after this particular bakery family, um, retired, they bought property out here first. And it’s now the art barn on Wiley 12:43 JO: Oh 12:44 JM: But it had been the Wanzung home and that’s �12:48 JO: Spell Wanzung for us 12:48 JM: Uh, W-A-N-Z-U-N-G. Wanzung. And then, um, so then my parents would come to that, that introduced them to this community. And my dad was a city man who loved the country. My mom was a country girl who really preferred the city 13:08 JO: [laugh] 13:09 JM: But we got here. 13:09 JO: You got here. Well I’m glad you did. 13:11 JM: Yeah 13:13 JO: But now, Joy, when you said you came here, you had already graduated from high school 13:15 JM: From high school but 13:17 JO: But your sister was half way through her seventh grade year. But they put her into eighth grade here. This was a shock for you, wasn’t it Jerry? Coming from a city like Chicago High School to this school house? 13:30 JE: You have no idea 13:31 JO: K. Tell us what you thought when you first walked into this building, or didn’t want to walk into it. 13:38 JE: Well, we had seventh and eighth grade in the upper right hand corner 13:44 JO: So that’d be the room where we are right now. 13:46 JE: Exactly 13:47 JO: Ok. Where the Michigan Dunes Collection is. 13:48 JE: mm hm. And, um, there were 2 girls and 4 boys in eighth grade. K. Plus we had sixth and seventh grade also in the same. Mm hm. Ok. And, it was very difficult. Very difficult to come out of a school of, of two thousand, right Joy? 14:13 JM: A large public school you know 14:16 JE: Large. And I was so involved in tumbling, and I loved the gymnastics. And all of a sudden I’m plunked into this �14:27 JO: [laugh] 14:28 JE: and I say plunked. I didn’t know how to react. I was just very quiet I think. And then Ty Hackme 14:43 JO: I remember that name. Ty Hackme. Mm hm. 14:46 JE: And I wore double, what do you call, gian-um, my hair was up in double 14:53 JO: Braids 14:54 JE: Braids 14:54 JO: Oh 14:55 JE: Or, yeah. And he sat behind me and he clung them 14:59 JO: [laugh] 14:59 JE: So 15:01 JO: So what kind of seats did you have that he could be so close to you? Didn’t he have a desk in between or he couldn’t have leaned over couldn’t he? 15:06 JE: I’m trying to think. I’m trying to remember 15:09 JM: Were they etched, I don’t I don’t quite know 15:12 JE: I, yeah 15:14 JM: I have some real old school sets at home, and the, was like attached 15:18 JO: yeah. 15:20 JM: The front was attached to the back 15:20 JE: was attached to the back, uh huh 15:21 JM: And it looked like a train type thing, but I’m not sure what you 15:22 JE: Yes 15:23 JO: Yeah �15:24 JM: had if you had tables and chairs or 15:27 JE: No, I think it was that, that style, I think, but he just, he was was trying to always get my attention 15:37 JO: [laugh] 15:37 JE: And later, as I grew a little older, I dated the guy because he took me roller skating at the old Pavilion. 15:46 JO: Oh, so you remember that then too? 15:48 JE: Yeah. Yes 15:49 JO: Ok then, well tell me about that, and then we’ll come back to the school here and how you grew up and what else was here. 15:55 JE: Yes 15:55 JO: Ok, then tell about the Pavilion, what it was like going there. 15:58 JE: Oh it was awesome to, to, to not only see that building, but to, uh, there was a movie theater to the left of it. 16:12 JO: Mm kay. How did you get in the building? Tell us that. 16:14 JE: Well 16:15 JO: How did you get into the Pavillion? Do you remember that Joy? 16:17 JM: Well the movie theater was on ground level. As I remember, I never, I never was in the, the dance area or roller skating area. And, and I think that was like at a second level 16:30 JO: yeah 16:31 JM: I think it was from the movie, or else the movie, or the theater was to the side of it. I’m not sure just how that worked 16:38 JE: I think there were two steps up into it 16:41 JM: Could have been 16:42 JE: Two steps. No more than three. But when you went in, it had been of course a big dance hall �16:52 JO: Mmhm. That’s what I head 16:53 JE: And, um, of course at that time, young children weren’t allowed in there, but when it became a roller rink, then that’s when he taught me how to roller rink 17:09 JM: skate 17:09 JE: skate. 17:10 JM: [laugh] 17:10 JE: in the rink. But because, of course, oh he was great at it. Oh my gosh. He could just swing around that place like no tomorrow, and I’m on there just fumbling 17:20 JO: [laugh] 17:22 JE: Because I didn’t know how. And, but he taught me how to roller skate, and uh 17:29 JO: Did you forgive him then for pulling your braids? 17:32 JE: At that point yes 17:33 JO: Ok. [laugh] 17:35 JM: He was a very interesting young man. He called the house one time when I answered the phone. And he identified himself as Ty, and he was “I, I wonder if I could come over and see Jerry.” So I said, “Sure, you know. Come on” and he said “I’ll run right over.” When most people say “I’ll run right over,” they mean, you know, get in the car and drive, but he didn’t come, and he didn’t come, and he didn’t come. He actually had run over. And we were probably three miles, four miles. 18:03 JE: Oh yeah. 18:04 JM: From the, from Douglas, but he, he, um 18:07 JE: yes 18:08 JM: Ran over. There was one other thing when we were picking up on that theater. They changed their film every night. 18:12 JO: Oh really? 18:13 JM: Yes. So you could have a different movie. And my mother loved to do movies. So she and I would do the movies. Oh, um �18:21 JO: How much was it to go to the movie? 18:23 JM: Um, I can’t remember, but it was very, I mean, uh 18:25 JE: fifty cents? 18:28 JM: I remember, uh, Jane Vends (?) telling me what it cost to dance, but I don’t remember what I got, ten cents, 18:32 JO: laugh 18:32 JE: [laugh] 18:34 JM: I don’t remember 18:35 JE: It could have been ten cents. 18:38 JM: to get in there, but it was very inexpensive, but, um, I could drive. My dad left the car for us so we could have it during the summer. I could drive. I was fearful of crossing on the bridge. Crossing the bridge. So, what we, my mother and I, would do is park in Douglas, and we’d walk across and walk down to the film. Well that worked fine until one night when we were ready to return, it was pouring. It was a terrible, terrible storm. And we had to walk through that storm and across the bridge 19:11 JO: Cross the bridge. Oh. 19:12 JM: And, and she, I remember her saying, “I really believe, I really believe you could cross this bridge with the car. I think you could.” I kind of did it from then on 19:24 JO: You drove over 19:24 JM: Drove to Saugatuck [laugh] 19:27 JE: Boy. I must have been, I don’t remember that 19:28 JM: No, you weren’t with us 19:30 JE: I must 19:32 JM: I don’t know why, but [laugh], maybe it was an x rated film and you were too young. 19:36 JE: That could be �19:37 JO: Maybe, they didn’t show X rated films 19:40 JM: [laugh] Well, I can’t remember, but could be. 19:44 JE: But it was a beautiful area, and then, when I was old enough, and I, uh, all those boats that were out, out there and you know 19:54 JO: Oh in the 19:56 JE: And they were two and three and they were huge boats. I shouldn’t even say boats. They were huge. They came from Chicago. Yachts! 20:01 JO: Yachts! The, the wealthy and 20:02 JE: the wealthy yachts. And oh, it was fun to walk on that board walk. 20:08 JO: Right outside of the Inn? 20:10 JE: Yes 20:11 JO: Ok. I’ve seen picture of it. 20:12 JE: Yes. The Pavilion was my stomping ground when I was old enough. I loved that place. 20:19 JO: Ok. So you would go roller skating there. You could go to a movie there. What else what other activities did they have there, do you remember? 20:25 JM: They had a bar too, I remember that was 20:27 JE: Oh yeah. Downstairs. 20:29 JM: uh, being in the, being in the 20:30 JE: right that was Red Skeller 20:32 JO: Red Skeller, ok. I remember that, yeah. 20:33 JE: That’s where the dancing was, and the bar. And um 20:40 JM: I don’t know if the Red Skeller was in the, um, big Pavilion. Or if that was in Coral Gables. I think 20:47 JE: Oh �20:49 JM: Coral Gables. 20:51 JO: Didn’t you get to the Red Skellar by going outside and then going kind of down. 20:54 JE: Down. Mm hm 20:56 JO: That’s what I always heard, but I could be wrong. I dont’ know. 20:58 JE: Boy I’m not sure now. Joy 20:59 JM: I thought it was at, I thought it was at Coral Gables but 21:01 JE: I think when the yachts were here 21:04 JM: I remember being um, I had gone to um, uh, Western Michigan University and, um, during May, uh, 1960, was the blaze which took down the Pavilion. 21:17 JE: Yes 21:18 JM: So I was 21:19 JE: It was early in May wasn’t it? 21:20 JM: Yes, in May. 21:21 JE: Mm, yeah. May 6 21:22 JM: I was home 21:24 JE: I remember that cause I cried. I was out of school, and I, I saw it go down. And oh, yeah 21:32 JM: Yeah. When Jerry was, um, uh, here, at, um, the Union School I was, um, pursuing teacher training. I had been enrolled in the Chicago Teacher’s College in Illinois, and of course when we moved I wanted to move with the family. And I was told of a program, it was called Allegan County 21:54 JE: Yes. I remember 21:55 JM: And, it had been in Allegan, the city of Allegan, for forty-nine years, and for its fiftieth year it was moving to Saugatuck 22:03 JO: Oh really? �22:04 JM: And it was located in one of the rooms off the, um, high school, which at the time was where those condos are now. 22:13 JO: Up on the hill 22:13 JM: On the hill. On Allegan Street and Elizabeth. Right was there. And we had a room in that, in that school. And that was convenient because we could do our student teaching right in the building 22:26 JO: Oh, in Saugatuck 22:27 JM: Right there, and um, um, and we only had a one-year program, and we were expected then to teach in, to teach in a one room school or two room school within the county. And, uh, Ottawa county did not have a normal school, so there were Holland people that came to Saugatuck to be part of that normal school. And you talked before, was there a difference between the Chicago schools, remember I had graduated from a Chicago High school and 23:01 JO: How many were in your graduating class? 23:01 JM: it was 23:02 JO: A thousand 23:04 JM: It was you know like, I never knew how to spell principal, and now I was one. You know? 23:08 JO: [laugh] 23:08 JM: yeah. Well. It was like, what is a one room school? What is a two room school? Kind of thing. And, um, at the time I had um, a job waitressing at a place called Simmons’ of Saugatuck. It was on Butler Street in Saugatuck, and it’s where Glick is now. And I worked for Dorothy Simmons. And, uh, the operation was breakfast til two o’clock. Eight to two. Then we closed. And then we reopened at five, and were open from five to eight. Don’t like that split shift because you could hardly get to the beach and do anything, and then you had to be back to work, and um, I know that, um, a number of our customers, um, were from Castle Park and so on, 23:57 JO Oh yes 23:57 JM: Which was kind of an elite area 23:58 JO: Yes, it was �23:58 JM: Um, on the southwest side of the city. And they would come down for dinner. I remember that. Um, I remember working with, um, um, oh, twin women who one of whom dated um, Green, um, what did we say his first name was? Not Robert, but his brother. 24:19 JE: Um, Marshall 24:20 JM: Marshall. Marshall Green dated one of these women. So wanting the women to finish up quickly at night so he’d come and he’d help us. 24:28 [phone ringing] 24:30 JM: He’d come and help us clean up you know. And so, he would move the chairs all around, you know, the whole bit. That, but, I was with Simmons’ of Saugatuck. I worked with, uh, Gala Davis 24:45 JO: Gala Davis 24:46 JM: Davis, and she was from the Davis family. Some of whom own Chicken as you like it of Saugatuck. That was her uncle I think. 24:55 JO:W—and where was that located? 24:56 JM: At, um, it was also right down town. And I, um, think it was, I don’t know if it was on Butler for sure. I think it was, but I’m not sure which of the buildings because it was kind of closed at the time that I got involved in the area, but, um, I was telling Gala, one of the Davis’ three children, I was going to start teaching the next day 25:20 JO: [laugh] 25:20 JM: And, um, and I said “I’m kind of nervous about it, you know” and Gala said “Hey. Mother’s been teaching for years. I live right in Saugatuck.” She said. “Come on up, and uh, meet my mom.” So um, that’s when I met Edna Davis. Edna Navit (?) Davis. And they had the big house across from All Saints Episcopal Church. Across Grand 25:42 JO: Ok. 25:42 JM: So their, their house was on the corner of Grand and Hoffman. It’s a beautiful place now, owned by somebody who has gorgeous landscaping and they, anyway, after their death then their son Dave lived there before he sold it. But, and I bought my house, where I’ve lived since 1970, from the Davis’ 26:06 JO: From the Davis’? 26:06 JM: Yes �26:07 JO: Oh, my word, what a big circle 26:08 JM: Yeah, they, from the Davis’. So it was really quite nice. And I remember that little tea room which the Simmons’ of Saugatuck was 26:18 JO: Work until two, and then had a break from five to eight, right? 26:20 JM: Yes, yes, at the restaurant, and I remember we were told never tell a customer we don’t have a cold cereal they might ask for. Whatever they ask for, we have it. Then I had to go out the back way, go around to a grocery store in town, and understand that’s where Pumpernickels now stands. 26:40 JO: Oh. 26:41 JM: And buy that. And buy cereal 26:42 JO: And buy that cereal? 26:43 JM: And come back and go through the restaurant and serve it like 26:48 JO: [laugh] Of course we have it. 26:50 JM: Well then after a while we had a shelf full of cold cereal, and Mrs. Simmons’ would say “Now we have enough choice here, you know.” She’d get after the young man that did dishes because he was always soaked, you know. His shirt, his clothing, and she didn’t like him looking that, even if he was in the kitchen, and she got on his back about it. So then he got a plastic apron, and he got around with his shoes going [squishing noises] 27:16 JO: [laugh] 27:16 JM: [laugh] all the water was in his shoes. 27:18 JO: What a memory, oh my word. How many, how many people did you serve, or how big a restaurant was it? Were there five tables? Eight tables? 27:28 JM: I don’t know. It could have served fifty people or not, I bet it wasn’t, I bet it could have served somewhere between, um, thirty and fifty. It was a quaint little restaurant. It was a popular restaurant, and it couldn’t, just a lot of fun working for, uh, for Mrs. Simmons. And, uh, um, while we’re on Butler Street, unless you’d like to move us off that street. 27:56 JO: Oh, no. Let’s stay on Butler Street �27:57 JM: Walking around Butler Street, um, I liked to say a word for the Oosting (?) family. Now Oosting’s was a furniture and appliance store. They, um, in the beginning when we first moved they were only on the east side of Butler. And then they bought what again is the Glick building. They were in there sort of on both sides of that. And just yesterday I had Bob Oosting visit my home about a chair that I’d bought from him. And I pulled out a file, a paper manila file, with Oosting’s on it. And he said “You have a file?” and I said “Bob, we bought our first appliances from you, my family, in the fifties. Colored TV had just come out” 28:44 JO: Oh my word 28:44 JM: And you know people didn’t buy a television the basis of the technology of it. They bought it as a piece of furniture. So, because it was. It was always in casing 28:56 JO: Casing yeah. 28:56 JM: A beautiful 28:58 JO: That’s right 28:58 JM: And you could choose oak or maple or whatever. And I remember, buying for my parents this very lovely, um, TV. Uh, it was a color television from Bob Oosting. And I said to him yesterday “Bob, I thought that when you’d sold the store this past year, that you had taken off to parts unknown.” But the truth of it is, behind those uh three or four stores that are being, that have been remodeled on his, on the east side of Butler there is um, a store in the back that’s not accessed from Butler. 29:38 JO: From the front 29:38 JM: Go, just a little alleyway back, then you go in, and he’s sharing, he will be sharing with a woman that’s going to, uh do what they call staging 29:50 JO: Oh yes 29:51 JM: By, uh home, you know make it look nice, and Bob’s going to do appliances there. So, uh, so he’s still operating from from Saugatuck and, um, but he was impressed, and I said “well, you are a fixture in this town. You’re family.” They must have started that business in the forties maybe 30:10 JO: Because they were here before you came. 30:11 JM: Yes. And, and after his parents died, then he and his sister, uh, operated it, and then after she, after her death, and now Bob has kind off being going, you know, solo on it but I thought for sure he had um, he had uh �30:29 JO: Said enough 30:29 JM: Left the area. You know. Yeah 30:32 JO: Well that’s neat. Spell Oostings for us 30:35 JM: O-o-s-t-i-n-g. You know. That. We were the first family of our immediate grandparent and so to, to move this way out of Chicago. But then our grandparents moved in the Fennville area, and Grandpa Fred Muehlenbeck was a custodian at Fennville Schools 30:55 JO: That’s right! 30:56 JM: Yes 30:56 JO: I remember him 30:58 JM: Yes. And he, and he was just the kind of guy that if he saw a child without mittens or a hat or whatever 31:05 JO: Yup, he 31:05 JM: He’d go home with the story, and then he got grandmother involved, and you know the whole bit and 31:10 JO: That’s right 31:11 JM: And then my aunt and uncle moved, um. My aunt’s name was Lorraine Milnky (?). And she, um, had a sewing room. She altered the clothing from the different stores, wherever they sold men’s usually men’s trousers, men’s pants. They would call her and let her know they were sending up a customer, would she measure and sew. So she did all the alterations. And she lived just a little bit east of me, so she was on the corner of Elizabeth, where the high school is. Elizabeth and, uh, Hoffman. Right on that corner that now is an entrance to the high school parking lot. Yeah. 31:54 JO: And then you would go to the left or go north to the high school now 31:56 JM: Yeah, yeah. She was south, south of the actual building. And she was there, and um, on neither my mother nor she drove, ever drove. Because in Chicago you didn’t have to. 32:08 JO: You didn’t need to. 32:09 JM: You had public transportation, the subway, you had the bus you know but. So, my aunt became a part of a small group of seniors who thought wouldn’t it be cool if we could have some sort of transportation in this community. So they, um, they went to Allegan, and they did �all the petitioning and everything they had to do on behalf of the people here, and in 1980, the inner urban started running. And, uh, I know that you probably interview Phyllis Ike (?) who’s the director there. Um, but I think she can tell that, in the beginning it was just a godsend to the people who couldn’t drive, maybe because they were elderly, maybe because they were disabled in some way, but today just so many people. I mean it’s only fifty cents for a senior to ride it, you know? 33:03 JO: [laugh] you can’t beat that can you? And I’ve seen it out here on Blue Star and so on 33:07 JM: And, and they have a lift. So you tell them when you call the bus, “I would like the lift” and I mean, you have to be in a chair or on a walker, but they have a platform that just comes right down. And you just walk right onto it and get into the bus. And um, I’m working with Phyllis right now to get an arrangement for chamber music because the problem with our patrons is parking. 33:35 JO: That’s right 33:36 JM: They get into Saugatuck 33:37 JO: there’s no place 33:37 JM: And they can’t find parking. So I’m trying to work out a plan whereby they would go to the high school at 7pm, there would be a bus that would take them down to the women’s club. 33:45 JO: That sounds good 33:46 JM: And then at 10 pick them up. Take them back to their cars. And um, so Phillis says she doesn’t know why that won’t work on a Friday. Cause they provide the services anyway on Friday. If we were to do it on Thursday, which is another night of the concerts, um, we’d have to pay for the driver’s time, you know, but even so. 34:06 JO: Well good luck with that. 34:06 JM: Yeah 34:07 JO: And speaking of transportation, Jerry, when you first came here to this building, how did you get here? Did your dad drive you? Joy could probably drive then? How did you get to 34:19 JM: I didn’t go across the bridge, remember? 34:21 JO: Oh, right. That’s right. You didn’t have to because you lived there. 34:24 JE: How did I �34:24 JM: [laugh] 34:25 JO: How did you get here? Cause you lived that way. South of town 34:28 JE: On Hooter Road 34:29 JO: On Hooter Road. But how did you get here? I’m sure you didn’t walk. 34:33 JM: You went on the bus. 34:34 JO: Oh did the school have the bus? 34:34 JE: There was a bus 34:34 JM: Yeah 34:35 JO: Saugatuck/ Douglas School bus? 34:36 JM: Yeah 34:37 JE: Probably. Ok. 34:39 JM: Yeah 34:40 JO: So it would pick you up. 34:41 JE: yeah 34:42 JO: Now did the front of the building look like it does now? 34:46 JE: Oh no. 34:46 JO: Tell us. What was different? 34:47 JE: It just looked old 34:49 JO: [laugh] you mean now it does, now it looks young? 34:52 JE: Well it’s had a renewal 34:56 JO: Well now, when you walked in the front doors and you said that you were in the building which we are right now. Just upstairs on the right hand side as you face the building. How did you get up here? Were there stairs in the center like there are now? Were there �divided stairs? Where were the bathrooms? We talked about bathrooms before. Did you have a fire escape? I can remember I had a fire escape that looked like a big smoke stack. You’d slide down and use wax paper to make it more slippery. How did you do that? Do you remember Jerry? 35:24 JE: Well you took the photos, right? 35:25 JM: Yeah. But you had, wasn’t there a long stairway when 35:29 JE: Yeah 35:29 JM: When you first walked in? 35:30 JE: Yes 35:30 JM: I, there was a stair way. Yeah 35:42 JE: Yeah. 35:34 JO: In the middle then? Right out the doors? When you walked in the doors you walked right up? 35:37 JM: I think it was 35:38 JE: Yeah. That’s going back 35:39 JM: I wasn’t here very many times, um, and I think there was there too 35:42 JE: Yeah. There were stairs. And, uh, I must have gotten here by bus because my mom didn’t drive. My dad was in Chicago, so I didn’t walk it 35:52 JM: Yeah. I’m trying to think, probably my recall on the bus deals more with when you were picked up to go to Fennville High School, but you still had to have a, must have had a bus to get here because I know that I didn’t provide that particular, uh 36:07 JE: And I don’t think Ty ran 36:08 JO: No I don’t think he would carry you on his back like [laugh] 36:12 JE: [laugh] 36:12 JM: [laugh] I don’t think so �36:16 JO: What about the bathrooms here? Were there bathrooms? Indoor bathrooms or did you have outdoor privies? 36:20 JE: No, we had indoor 36:22 JO: And so it was much more 36:23 JE: Yeah 36:23 JO: Up to date. OK 36:24 JE: yeah. Yeah. Um, but there was just, it, it was such a change from coming from 2,0001500, probably school in Chicago, and then out here to a school with 6,7,8th grade in it. It, it was, it was quite a shock. 36:49 JM: Didn’t you have trouble with your lunch disappearing for a while? 36:52 JE: Yeah. I think it was Ty Hackney again 36:54 JO: [laugh] 36:55 JM: I think it was a dog. 36:56 JE: That could be too. But I re- I remember that I would, um, well I would get to school somehow. So it had to have been a bus because nobody else could bring me. But, um, I’m trying to think. I lost track of what I was going to say 37:15 JO: Well you had the lunch, you had to bring your lunch. They didn’t have hot lunches here. 37:18 JE: No. No. Absolutely not. We had to bring our lunch and 37:22 JO: And if your lunch were still there at noon did you eat it in the room, at your desk or go outside depending on weather or what? 37:28 JE: Right. Outside if it was, you know 37:31 JO: Nice 37:32 JE: Nice. Otherwise yeah. We had no other choice except to eat it, you know, in the classroom. 37:42 JO: Where did you store your lunch when you came in? Was there a shelf or something where you’d put it? And that’s where yours disappeared? �37:46 JE: That’s all I remember. 37:48 JO: What did you do when you didn’t have a lunch? 37:48 JM: I remember your crying about your lunch, but I thought a dog had come into the building and taken it. [laugh] Maybe I’m wrong 37:56 JE: Well, I also cried I know when, first day I came home and said “He pulled my pig tails. I don’t want to go back there. I, nuh uh. This was not for me.” Not when someone could just, you know, like they’re milking a cow. I remember that. I got used to it, obviously, and um graduated. 38:23 JO: Ok. What age was graduation. Well wait no. Before we get to graduation. When you were in Chicago you had probably several eighth grade classes. Where you were in a classroom where you had science or math or whatever. But here you just had these few kids, and the teacher couldn’t meet with you all the time, could she? 38:42 JE: No. 38:44 JO: Ms. Hevit (?) teach you there? 38:44 JE: Mrs. Ramp (?) 38:45 JO: [gasp] Did she live in Fennville? 38:48 JE: I believe so. She was our teacher. 38:51 JO: What was her first name? 38:52 JE: Uh, 38:54 JO: Wilma? 38:55 JE: Wilma Ramp. Yes. And I, in my photos that I pulled the three teachers. Hathaway, Ramp, uh, there was one other. [pause]. It’s in one of those, you know photos that I have here 39:10 JO: In one of those photos. Mrs. Ramp was your teacher? 39:14 JE: mmhm. 39:15 JO: What’d she’d look like? 39:16 JM: [laugh] �39:18 JE: Oh 39:19 JO: Oh dear. Maybe this is dangerous, huh? Was she? 39:22 JE: Tall 39:23 JO: Tall, ok. 39:25 JE: and, and, not thin, but I mean she was, 39:29 JO: She was solid 39:31 JM: Oh solid 39:31 JO: Was she cruel? 39:32 JE: Oh no 39:33 JO: She was a nice lady? Oh good. 39:37 JE: I loved her [laugh] 39:37 JO: Oh that’s good. Because if she was mean 39:39 JE: She helped, she helped ease me into such a change. 39:48 JO: So she was very, very compassionate as far as you were concerned? 39:52 JE: And, um, she was a great lady. 39:55 JO: And you didn’t feel as if you were missing out on your education? Or did you? 39:57 JE: No. Um. It was a major adjustment. I didn’t have a choice, so at twelve years old I just did the best I could as far as adjusting, and, uh, I think I adjusted quite well. Quickly. 40:20 JM: Yeah you did pretty well. You’re a pretty well-adjusted person I think. Pretty well. You know 40:20 JE: The first day crying. 40:24 JO: [laugh] �40:26 JE: When I came home that first day I cried. I’m not going back. I remember telling Mom that. I’m not going back 40:34 JO: And what did Mom say? 40:35 JE: Well. Of course Mom says “Oh yes you are.” So. 40:41 JO: And don’t drop the spoon, right? 40:42 JM: And don’t drop the spoon. But you know, then after this, after the school closed, um, you know then apartments were made here, and, um, I have a friend my age [clears throat] excuse me, who lives in Tucson, Arizona. Kay Schrkeckengust. 41:00 JO: Kay. She worked with us at the Red Wood. Ok. 41:02 JM: Yes. Kay Schreckentgust. Now Kay Spencer. And her dad, Nolan, was the person who worked on, on, uh changing this building into apartments. 41:13 JO: That’s right 41:13 JM: Yeah 41:14 JO: He. Spell Schreckengust for us. 41:16 JM: S-C-H-R-E-C-K-E-N-G-U-S-T. 41:25 JO: Joy, you are, you are an instructor there. 41:25 JM: And you know she’s exactly six months older than I. To the day. 41:30 JO: Really? 41:31 JM: So we mock her about being the older woman. And then I mock her, say, so how’s it working. How’s it working? Can I make it? Yeah. It’s a good six month, you’ll make it through. When she celebrated her 80th birthday, six months before I did, uh, she came to Douglas, and she had out at the family home of Karen Schreckengust who, um, has since died, but she and her nieces were there in Douglas, well, it’s really the Fennville address area. But anyway, um, the whole theme was The Wizard of Oz. And the food, everything was thematically arranged. Remember that, Jerry? 42:13 JE: yeah 42:14 JM: It was a beautiful, a beautiful you know. Everything was perfect. And then what happened, but we got tornado warnings. I mean, could that have been anymore perfect? �42:26 JO: Oh no, that’s right. 42:28 JM: Oh my gosh, you know. But, um, the nieces 42:30 JO: Did you have Toto with you? 42:31 JM: [laugh] yeah. We had red shoes and the whole thing. Til one of her nieces, Dawn, who was an EMT, and had gotten notice that you know, that this was in the area. It did strike in the area. Um, it wasn’t a full-fledged tornado, but it was a heavy, you know, a real heavy, heavy wind. And I don’t know if it was to the degree that it was labelled that, but we were down in the basement and we couldn’t believe, 42:59 JO: here we are for this party and 43:00 JM: And someone said that I believe that, uh, I’d like to know who her party planner was, you know. 43:10 JO: [laugh] 43:10 JE: Well that could have been your birthday party too 43:11 JO: Yes, exactly 43:15 JE: And, I want to bring up my dad. Because when he moved out here, I’m trying to think. When was he a policeman? He worked 43:22 JM: Uh, he worked as a security guard 43:25 JE: as a security guard, right. And he worked out on a boat. Now I’ll never forget, when the boat moved away, he went to put his foot on to get on to the dock. And the boat moved and he’s straddling the dock and the boat moved. It did, and plunk, he went down 43:45 JM: Yes. He worked for the Allegan County, uh Sheriff’s Department Marine Division, and that’s when that particular happened. Yeah. Could have been 43:58 JO: That could have been real hairy 43:59 JM: Real dangerous right. 44:01 JO: Where were, where were the boats moored then? That he was going to get out with 44:06 JM: Uh, well now they’re at the museum across the, the one that’s across the, I don’t know if that’s where it was. I mean it was on the other, this side of the river and time �44:16 JO: On this side 44:16 JM: But, yeah, I think right next to the, I think, isn’t that true when you take the pontoon, don’t you see the Sheriff’s boat, um, docked by the south side of the museum there 44:26 JE: Oh yeah. By the museum. Right. 44:32 JM: But I, I think it might have been on the other side at that particular time, but, um 44:33 JO: Yeah. Yeah. I think so 44:40 JM: That was, that was a time when um, he, he liked his job very much, and he was always on the water. Sometime he was back in the jail area. And he bragged about being able to get, remember, a haircut and um, oh what else did he get. A haircut and a carwash. For five bucks. And I said, Dad, what did they use to cut your hair? What do you think? They used a knife or a scissors or whatever. They trust these, they’re prisoners. He said “Oh, but they’ve done nothing serious. They got a year behind on alimony or something. You know.” 45:20 JE: Oh yeah. My dad was a very very trusting and loving person. 45:28 JO: This was in Allegan County then, where he, where the jail was. Oh my word 45:29 JM: Yeah, but, but, but he, when he went to Allegan County to 45:43 JO: For his hair cut and his car wash. Oh my goodness 45:36 JM: Haircut. Yeah. He was. But I, I remember talking about lunch too when we bought lunch in the school, um, my first school was the Colf school 45:45 JO: Tell us where that is, yes 45:26 JM: And, and that is that was on 58th, which runs between Fennville and Holland. And if you took Old Allegan Road to where it T’s at 58, and you look a little to your left, there’d be a little knoll, and that’s where the one room school was 46:02 JO: And if you went down from there you could go down into New Richmond, correct? 46:05 JM: Yes. That was a look right, that was a little bit beyond it, but this was 46:05 JO: Ok, little funny road on there, ok, but about the Colf, spell Colf 46:10 JM: C-O-L-F. I think it was after somebody. I was going to look that up someday, but I didn’t so, but I think it was named after someone in the, in the community. But, um, I �remember the kids, um, had to carry their own lunch. And, um, they would often share something with me. You know, maybe an apple, maybe a piece of cake of some sort. Uh, and I was impressed that they would care enough about me that they would want to share their food until one day I took, I heard a couple kids talking, and one person said, “Hey if you don’t like that give it to Miss Muelenbeck. She eats anything.” 46:50 JO: [laugh] 46:53 JE: And she did. (pause) Still does 46:56 JM: But I had, I had one black family in my, in my school. All eight grades and one black family. And I remember when it was so stormy, such a tremendous snow storm that, um, Mr. Hornsby came to school, and he said “Blue Star’s been closed.” And so you won’t be able to get back, um home 47:19 JO: the, the road. Blue Star Highway. Ok. 47:21 JM: The road. Blue star, uh road. 47:23 JO: Now, who is this man? Mr. 47:24 JM: Hornsby. H-O-R-N-S Horns B-Y. 47:29 JO: b-y 47:29 JM: y 47:30 JO: and he was a what 47:31 JM: He was a dad of, uh, of two of the kids 47:34 JO: Of the kids 47:34 JM: Yeah. And he just came to the school because we didn’t have a phone. You know. So he came to tell me that, and he also came to invite me to stay at his home. He and his wife had talked about it, and they wanted to house me that evening. And I’ll tell you, talk about a gracious family. Uh, the towels had the Chesepeake, or the Chessy cat on it because he worked for the train company 47:59 JO: Oh! For the train company. Ok. 48:04 JM: [laugh] But it was a delightful, delightful experience, but, they, it was a very strong community at that time, and, uh, a very conservative community. Cause I still remember my very first interview, uh for teaching, and they didn’t ask if I knew anything about teaching �reading or about math. They asked two questions. Number one: would I open with devotions every morning? And did I dance? 48:32 JO: Oo 48:33 JM: And I knew what they were asking with the dancing. And I said “Yes, I will open with devotions.” So far as dancing I said “No, I don’t.” But I said “I don’t by choice. Um, I know people enjoy it, and that’s fine. I simply don’t choose to do it. It’s an interest that I don’t have.” But I knew what they were after 48:55 JO: After, that’s right 48:55 JE: Yeah. 48:59 JM: But, uh, you know, it’s interesting. It’s a wonderful community. I was there three years. And every month they had a community dinner, potluck. And my mom would go with me, and the kids would pump her for information. “Does Miss Muehlenbeck do dishes?” Does she do this? I remember my mom saying to them one time, “Oh, I use Joy for my dishes for a long time. 49:24 JO: Oh! [laugh] good pun, good pun. How many kids did you have in your classroom? 49:28 JM: I had about twenty, twenty-three to twenty-five, but that, that was 49:37 JO: In each grade? 49:37 JM: In individual kids. But some of them were families, you know. Two or three might be from one family. I, I don’t know if you know Joanne Deyoung. She works at Christian neighbor. She’s um, one of the head persons over there, um, and she had been my fifth grader. Uh, so, and then she had a couple of brothers in the program too. For my seventieth birthday, uh, my family gave me a gift of a reunion. So I had the kids come back 50:04 JO: Oh how neat! 50:04 JM: And we stood in the same arrangement as we had for, uh 50:08 JO: For a class picture? 50:08 JM: For it in 56-57, you know. Uh, and some of the guys were sixty-five, and I was seventy. You can tell the age at that point, you know? 50:20 JO: [laugh] now that is neat. �50:22 JM: Yeah. Got that picture hanging. They were a little bit big, but I could bring them. I suppose they could be digitized. 50:28 JO: Oh, I bet. That would be wonderful. Yes. [pause]. 50:32 JE: I have to correct myself on the Pavilion vs when the Pavilion, I saw the Pavilion burn down. I was there. 50:42 JO: You were there that day and 50:43 JE: Yes, and but before that, the Pavilion, I wasn’t old enough to be, even around, the Pavilion, other than the theater. Mmkay. Other than roller skating or something. But I would walk along and see the yachts and everything. But it was the Rats Kellar that was in the Coral Gables. That. Yes. 51:14 JM: Yes. There was a bar, there was a bar of some sort at the, at the big Pavilion too. I don’t even, I don’t know what it was called 51:28 JE: Yeah but, yeah, but I wasn’t even old enough to be uh, be around. 51:28 JO: It was illegal for. You were, you were not of age. 51:30 JE: Correct, but I did, uh, love to dance, uh. And so I would go to the Rats Kellar when I was old enough, and that was my haunting grounds and, so. But I did, yeah, see the Pavilion burn down and all. Just about broke my heart. I can still you know. 51:52 JM: Yeah, well, Jean Underwood was of course on the other side, and if the wind hadn’t changed course it could have burned down everything over there. 51:58 JE: That’s right 51:58 JO: Yeah 51:59 JM: yeah. Was living right there 51:59 JE: That was a sad day. And then both Joy and I worked, we worked for, um, for a time at the museum. We had hostess 52:08 JM: Yeah we were, you know, were hostesses at Docen’s over there. 52:12 JE: Which was enjoyable 52:14 JM: Yeah. �52:15 JO: That’s good, well can we go back to one thing that we didn’t, I didn’t clarify myself. When you were here you graduated because you were in eighth grade. That was the top one. That was your only year here. And Joy talked about this picture being taken. Did you have a picture taken for graduation here? Or 52:34 JE: No 52:34 JO: No? 52:35 JE: Not that I recall 52:38 JO: How did you, how did you have your graduation? Did you 52:40 JE: We didn’t. It was 52:42 JO: It was just, you didn’t. At the end of the year, that was it? 52:44 JE: That was it. There was one more year of kids being here. 52:48 JO: being here. 52:49 JE: So I was next to last 52:52 JO: last, but 52:53 JE: But then I went on to Fennville. You know, high school 52:47 JO: But then when you left here as an eighth grader, did they have a picnic at the end of the year? Did, what did they do at the end of the year. I can always remember, they would always have a picnic, and we went out to Allegan County Park and 53:10 JE: No. We didn’t do 53:11 JO: Eelle Lake or something like that. You didn’t, it just, that was it? 53:13 JE: I don’t recall celebrating. When the school year ended everybody went their own way. Do you remember, Joy? 53:21 JM: No. We were just glad you graduated. 53:25 JO: [laugh] Oh come on now, Joy. 53:29 JE: Scratch that from the, yeah. Audio �53:32 JM: No. I don’t remember 53:36 JE: I went to Hope College. Now you don’t get into Hope College easily if you, you know. So I just want to point that out. 53:42 JO: [laugh] and then you went to Fennville. Now was there a big difference between here and when you went to Fennville? 53:45 JE: Oh yeah. 53:48 JO: Fennville was nothing like Chicago. 53:49 JE: I went to Fennville when it was on the hill 53:52 JO: The old school 53:53 JE: The old school. Ok 53:55 JO: Where the library is now 53:56 JE: Yes 53:58 JO: On Kindle street, or (?) it’s called. 53:59 JE: Mm hmm. And that’s where I graduated from. Uh. Yeah 54:06 JO: Because Mrs. Ward who used to teach kindergarten here. Didn’t she teach kindergarten? I believe, taught sixth grade in Fennville. Mary Ward 54:14 JE: Oh, I remember, yeah. 54:15 JO: But you see, you would not have had her because you were going to be a ninth grader then. 54:18 JE: Right 54:19 JO: And she, I believe, taught sixth grade. 54:22 JE: Exactly. Yeah. 54:23 JO: Mm. 54:24 JM: You know the, um, the, the academic program post, post high school differed from the teachers to, because, um, in the beginning, uh, I’m talking about the end of the fifties when �teachers needed who had gone through, um, the county normal program needed to pursue additional credits, and of course got a degree, um. We didn’t go to Western, or to another college necessarily, but a professor would come to us. So we took, uh, area teachers would get together once a week. 55:05 JO: Oh really? 55:06 JM: And the professor would come to us 55:08 JO: All year long, or just for in the summer? 55:10 JM: Yeah, for a semester and I think it continued to a second semester but for a particular period of time, like it would be going on campus. But they came, which made sense because we were all teaching. We were all working, and one person could better travel than all of us go the other way. 55:27 JO: That’s right. 55:28 JM: And they would come. And the other value to that was that a concept would be taught, and then we were, um, encouraged to go try it. And so we would do it in our perspective classrooms. We would reassemble the following week and talk about, did it, did that idea work? Why did it work for you and not for me? What were the variables? You know, and that kind of thing. And it was a wonderful, wonderful learning situation. I mean, it was a practic as you could get 56:01 JO: Oh. You couldn’t get any more than that. 56:02 JM: No. No. No. Then, of course, a number of us would go during the summer, go to summer school too, but 56:09 JE: one my— 56:09 JO: Because you had, go ahead, Jerry 56:11 JE: Um, I was saying that, when I went to Hope College, I went in to be a teacher, like Joy. My dad said “Be like Joy. Get a teaching. You’ll never be out a job.” I remember him always saying that to me. Jerry, you got be like. I think I had one semester, and I hated every minute of it. 56:32 JO: [laugh] 56:38 JE: Hated it. And I said I am not fit for this. Truly am not. �56:45 JO: Joy is Joy, and I’m Jerry. Right? 56:46 JE: Yes! And I wanted to go into social work. So badly. So when I continued at Hope College, and I took time off because I had two children, while going to college 57:01 JO: Wow. That’s 57:02 JE: And I just, I did. That’s what I want to do. And I finished out Hope College. And I started work at, uh, Ottawa County. And I stayed with them for well, 28 years. And the I was able to go out after 30 years in because they were able to pull my two years that I took education. Remember that, Joy? It was in the, and they were lucky they found it, because it was during, they had the fire. They had a fire in the basement of Douglas School. 57:50 JO: Oh 57:51 JE: Years ago. And my papers fortunately were saved. And so they had, they took the two years I was in the teaching arena. I never taught. But I took the—c--- t 58:10 JM: The class, the classes for it. Yeah. 58:11 JE: The classes for it. And they added my 28 years as a social worker and supervisor. I was social worker for two years and then I was a, um, I continued as a, um. Two years as a worker, then the rest I was a supervisor. And I was able to retire with 30 years in with state 58:39 JO: Hallelujah 58:40 JE: employment. So it just worked in my favor, even though I no longer wanted to be in that type of education, as far as teaching. So 58:53 JM: Yeah she’s right about our dad because um of course I was, um, six years older, and I got the same lecture, about um, you’ve got to think about something that’s going to always ensure employment. And, in those days, uh, we’re talking about teaching, clerical work or secretarial work, or what was the third thing? 59:19 JE: to—er 59:20 JM: Nursing! 59:21 JE: Nursing. Yeah. Nursing. 59:23 JM: There’s, well, blood makes me queasy. 59:27 JE: Still does �59:27 JO: [laugh] 59:28 JM: [laugh] 59:29 JE: She couldn’t even hold my child when I was hemorrhaging one year. 59:32 JM: yeah she was just giving birth while I , but anyway 59:36 JO: And if one of the students cut his finger, go! Get him out of here! Don’t show it to me! Right? 59:45 JM: So, anything, anyway, and then as far as secretarial work goes, you know, we took short hand at that time and typing and I was not very fast at that and stuff, so, I got into teaching. And, uh, I started off with the, um, you know, the one room school, and then I went overseas for a year and then 1:00:06 JO: Oh, I didn’t know that. Where’d you go? 1:00:08 JM: Yeah, uh, in France 1:00:10 JO: oh really? 1:00:11 JM: And taught the dependents of Air Force personnel. There were American Air force, and when I came back I was at Holland Public for years 1:00:16 JO: Oh really? 1:00:18 JM: and I 1:00:19 JO: Which building 1:00:20 JM: Um Lincoln. And then Washington. While I, while I was there at Washington, I, there was a teacher that was ready to retire. And she came back from a phone interview one time, and she said, “You know what? That’s not for me. They want a younger person that’s willing to take these courses, because they’re looking for a reading consultant in West Ottawa schools. And I bet that would be a good job for you.” She said “I’ll go get you an interview.” I didn’t even have a chance to say maybe I don’t want it. And it was joke for two years because I said, “I don’t know,” her name was Willie. I said “I don’t know whether to thank you yet,” but I was in West Ottawa as a reading consultant for 24 years, but anyway, what I was going to say was this, the state came around with that same 80 idea. That if you could add your age plus your experience, and if it equaled 80 at least 1:01:15 JO: Oh really? �1:01:17 years old. JM: You could get full retirement. So in, in uh 87, I had, um, 30 years in. I was 50 1:01:26 JO: Oh my word 1:01:27 JM: and that was it. And I had been attending the United Douglas Church of Christ since the end of the fifties. And they were, at that point without a, without a pastor. Um, full time pastor, but um, they needed someone to kind of work as administrator. So I, I thought, after I retired, then I had an opportunity to be an administrator at church. Administrator for ten years. And I also had the chance to work for the metal sculptor, Ed Gray. 1:01:59 JO: Oh. Ok. 1:01:59 JM: In Fennville. And then I had the chance to do, whole sale selling for a friend that made hand turned wooden items. And I rep’ed him along the 31 quarter to 32 1:02:16 JO: So repping him, you sold, you drove. All right 1:02:18 JM: Yeah, went to retail stores. Representing him wholesale so they could buy it. You know, so I did that. I never said “Ha Ha Ha,” when I left, but I thought it. I had my cake and ate it too. 1:02:31 JE: Yeah. And I loved social work. It just was my bag. And, um, I was fortunate I stayed with Ottawa County for 28 years. And I was able to retire at 55 and get full benefits. So we both choose the path we wanted to be at regardless of our father. 1:02:59 JO: [laugh] Yeah. Without your father, the two of you would not be here, right? Oh that’s great. Is there anything else that you two can add that you’d like to think of. Um, Andy advice, or anything like this that you’d like to give? You would never say, oh don’t come to this area. Saugatuck Douglas area’s awful. You’d never say that, right? 1:03:18 JE: No, never, never, never, never. 1:03:19 JM: No, and I heard, uh, people last night talk about the beauty of it and that whole bit. And I think, oh, that story is so true. People come here to visit, or people just come for a weekend. And I live on a street now where I’m the only 24/7 person living on the block 1:03:38 JE: You are 1:03:39 JM: I am, because the houses are owned by people who live elsewhere. In fact, one house at the end of my block is owned by a woman who lives in, lives in Texas. You know, um, Dale Pond Realty owns one house and it’s used for coming and going. But I’ll say this about the block, um, everyone keeps his, her property beautiful. And you know, if they’re not living there, they’ve hired a service �1:04:08 JO: service. Ok. Take care of it. 1:04:09 JM: And, you know the people next to me on one side, they live in Chicago. They come out as they’re able, but they have someone take care of it. A couple of gentlemen bought a house on the west side, uh they live in Palm Springs. 1:04:21 JO: Oh my word 1:04:23 JM: And, you know, they did as much work to make it look sharp. Uh. You know, when they were here this summer. And they have, uh, you know, they keep an eye on it. They have somebody watching the place. Telling them if there’s a problem. So, I mean, I think, I don’t know if Saugatuck city council is going to have to address all these transient people or you know, on, on my block there’s absolutely no problem. 1:04:50 JO: Great 1:04:51 live in Glen. JE: And I love Douglas. Douglas is my town. Always will be. Even though now I 1:04:58 JM: I didn’t realize you were that far south then, oh 1:04:59 JE: Yeah. I live in Glen, and I’m fortunate enough to live on Lake Michigan. And so that is a plus, but as far as, and the only reason I moved there is because I’ve been with John for fifteen years 1:05:14 JO: Fifteen years’ now 1:05:16 JE: And yeah, and, but I, Douglas will always have my heart. When I stopped working for social services, I wasn’t ready to give up working yet. So I jumped. I worked for all the people who owned a business here. 1:05:38 JO: Oh right, up and down the main street then 1:05:41 JE: And I worked for all of them. When, when, up, oh what was her name? On the corner, she, uh she had all the jewelry. The jewelry that I worked for on the corner. And she’s now, is in South Haven. Uh, but the two Ed’s, I worked for. And right on down and old, good old uh 1:06:07 JM: Walter 1:06:08 JE: Walter, the wonderful 1:06:09 JO: Walter the wonderful, wonderful, yeah. �1:06:10 JE: And nobody, nobody but nobody can be a Walter the wonderful. Ever. And I worked for him and his partner Barry at the time where they had the 1:06:20 JO: when they were still together. 1:06:22 JE: Uh huh, and um, I worked for them, and I worked for down the line. And then when I moved to Glen, uh, John had this inner urban old, old inner urban bus. And that’s how I moved my clothes and my shoes 1:06:43 JO: Oh my word 1:06:44 JE: And everybody I worked for came out to watch this truck come through Douglas with all my clothes because of course 1:06:53 JO: They could, they could hung 1:06:54 JE: They could be hung. And everybody would like crazy because it was so funny to see. There goes Jerry. She’s moving to Glen. And all my shoes, because I have a ton of shoes also 1:06:54 JO: [laugh] 1:07:07 JO: Oh, is your name Emelda? 1:07:08 in JE: Just about. But that’s how I ended up going to John’s house permanently was 1:07:15 JO: Oh my word. 1:07:15 JE: Inner Urban 1:07:15 JO: Inner Urban. 1:07:17 JM: I told Jerry I moved her so many times, and I told her “You know what? I am not moving your clothes anymore. My clothes are mostly denim, and they stick together and they don’t slide off. But you’ve got all these slippy slidey clothes 1:07:35 JO: This right here. 1:07:36 JM: I am, I’m not carrying those things. So John came with this bus and all she had was hanging up on the bus 1:07:42 JO: Hanging. Oh. That’s neat. That’s neat �1:07:44 JE: And that was, that was so much fun for everybody in town. You know? But I just, belong. Other than Glen, I mean, I love Douglas 1:07:57 JO: We got Douglas, we got Saugatuck 1:07:57 JE: It will always be my town 1:07:58 JO: You’ve been in Saugatuck since 1970, you said, right? 1:08:03 JM: My, yes. The house I’m in, yes. Yeah. And I had gone right from our parents’ home. I bought this house from the Davis’ and yes. Bought it in 69, and um, I had a wonderful, um, carpenter working for me who would do time and materials. And I loved to work with wood in my hands. And so he’d come, he’d get me started. And then I’d get as far on the project as I could. And then I’d call him. “Simon, I’m ready for another lesson.” 1:08:35 JO: Lesson. 1:08:36 JM: Um, or I need, I need some angles cut or whatever. And then he’d come back over and he’d move me on again. At that time, um Forrester. I don’t know if you remember Wallace Forrester. 1:08:47 JO: Forrester’s lived in Douglas, didn’t they? 1:08:49 JM: Yes, they do, and I don’t know if a family member---- 1:08:51 JO: Seventh Day Adventists 1:08:53 JM: Exactly. Exactly. We couldn’t go there on a Friday, Saturday 1:08:56 JO: Friday nights, mmhm 1:08:58 JM: Um, but on Sundays we could, and, uh, the scouts would go there and I would go there, and if I had just one dollar in my pocket, I came home with a whole car load of wood. He worked for, he worked for Romer and maybe Chris Craft. 1:09:08 JO: Oh, they were so generous, yes. Oh. OK. 1:09:13 JM: And so he had some beautiful, um, mahogany pieces. And you know they were just sold for ten cents. Maybe a quarter. And I built an eight frame play house, which I had moved into my house in Saugatuck. I had to predrill the mahogany 2X4’s because you couldn’t put a nail in it without pre drilling and then putting the nail in, but uh, I just love it. For me it was like going to a candy store, you know, and just hauling all that wood back, but, um, �1:09:47 JO: Forrester. F-O-R-R-E-S-T-E-R. Right? 1:09:48 JM: Yes. 1:09:50 JO: Did they have a daughter, Shirley? 1:09:51 JM: Um 1:09:52 JO: Oh no. What was it? 1:09:53 JM: They might have. I believe she married their son. 1:09:53 JO: I believe so. I can’t remember 1:09:56 JM: Remember, they, they, could have. This was the other Forrester but, they lived out, where they lived at that time, out by Schmeecken 1:10:05 JO: Yes. Right into that, yes. By where Schmeecken is 1:10:05 JM: They were right in there, and um, I think that, um, they did so. 1:10:10 JE: And when I, when I worked in Douglas I also lived in Douglas at Mary Ellen G(?)’s home. 1:10:18 JO: Oh. Where is this? 1:10:20 JE: Um, oh, what is that? 1:10:22 JM: Is it Washington? 1:10:23 JE: Washington. Yes 1:10:24 JM: Ok. 1:10:25 JE: And, uh, she rented to me for three, four years, before she had to move in because her husband died and she wanted the home, but it was right near, but in Max. Cross, Across the road. I was always the lady under the bridge so to speak because the bridge was right were her home was. And I was fortunate enough to have that place. It was, you know, I just loved it there. 1:10:53 JO: Well this has been great. I am really pleased. Thank you both. Joy. 1:10:59 JM: You’re very welcome �1:11:00 JO: And Jerry. You have shared a lot with us, and I think this great. So you should be very pleased, right? Oh. I’d better do this correctly. This concludes the interview 1:11:07 JM: [laugh] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-MuehlenbeckJ-ElsingaJ-20181004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Muehlenbeck, Joy Muehlenbeck-Elsinga, Jerry Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-10-04 Title A name given to the resource Joy Muehlenbeck and Jerry Muehlenbeck-Elsinga (Audio interview and transcript), 2018 Description An account of the resource Sisters Joy Muehlenbeck and Jerry Elsinga describe adjusting to Saugatuck as young women after living in Chicago. Considerable discussion about the Pavillion and education in Saugatuck in the 60's and 70's. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Osman, Jane (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Documenting the Histories of Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas, Kutsche Office of Local History Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1b1ec3354e3a3a2cf443ae47924809a0.mp3 de66e831f2c87ff04086f82852345e91 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Christmastide I Scripture Text Luke 2:10 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19861228 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1986-12-28 Title A name given to the resource Joy: As Far as the Curse is Found Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 28, 1986 entitled "Joy: As Far as the Curse is Found", on the occasion of Christmastide I, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Luke 2:10. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6846157a023408f9bebeea881c3d050.mp3 ca25b288b022c9625fecb8eae245e5ae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Christmastide I Scripture Text Isaiah 9:3, Luke 2:10 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19921227 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1992-12-27 Title A name given to the resource Joy! Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 27, 1992 entitled "Joy!", on the occasion of Christmastide I, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Isaiah 9:3, Luke 2:10. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9f14aa35a393b1b13ff1e8eb5fe90f7.mp4 86871b3c8ee560e592e8456369fa8d77 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1cf635fc7828bbbf51d42b0c7b1af8ad.pdf 0370989bd2f17e0f850f9b5b11353493 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam Name of Interviewee: Ron Joyner Length of Interview: 00:31:02 Background:  Born May 1948.  Served in the US Army in Vietnam and the Cold War  He was born in Macon, Georgia.  His father was a farmer and his mother was a housewife. He has one sister.  Before he entered the service, he went to the University of Georgia. He had a business degree, and was hoping to do something with accounting.  He finished school and was drafted in the 1st lottery. His number was 35.  He was all ready to attend graduate school, when he got his draft notice. He had gone through all the physical tests, and with a number like 35, he knew that he was going to be headed to war.  He went into the Army and served his time. When he got back he picked up where he had left off, and went on from there.  He was the first in his immediate family who served in the military. Basic Training (2:30)           He left early in the year of 1970 to go to Fort Jackson, South Caroline, where he took basic training. He thought basic training was an interesting event. It was there you got used to the military, and got used to being away from your family for the first time. It was an interesting time. He found it was more difficult mentally, rather than physically, getting used to the regiment, the discipline, and getting through it. It was also difficult getting used to the South Carolina weather. During that time, there was a lot of controversy about the war in Vietnam, and a lot of people were moving to Canada. (4:00) The biggest deal was getting used to it all. Suddenly your whole world was upside down. He actually found the experience to be quite fun. He met a lot of great guys when he was there. He knew of his neighbor leaving for Canada, instead of getting drafted. He believes it was a personal choice, even if he did not agree with it. Even today, you can see the divide in the culture world about the choices that people made back then. He did not want to leave, because he knew that he would want to come back. He also did not want to have to tell his kids and grandkids that he did that. He was married when he was drafted. Flight School (5:45) �       After he got done with basic training, he went to flight school for helicopter training. He went to Fort Rucker, Alabama for his additional training. Because he was young, and in good shape, he did not find any of the physical training to be difficult at all. The biggest difficulty was adapting to the disciplined life there. Even today he still folds his socks a certain way, and puts them in certain places in his dresser. One thing he really learned was to live with people from all over the country, who lead very different live than he did. It was quite a learning experience adapting to others. (7:20) It would all add to the comradely that he had with the people there. Active Duty (8:02)          He served both in Vietnam and in Germany, during the Cold War. While he served in the Army, in both places, he learned a lot about teamwork. He learned that in order to be successful you had to have confidence that the people were going to do their job, so you could do yours. In Germany, it was a period of time, when you did not always have the best equipment as it was going to Vietnam and Southeast Asia. Looking back in history, he thinks that the people working in those areas were incredible. He remembers doing patrols in Germany, and he did not think much about it. Years later, however, he looks back on how his and others duties brought about the Cold War. When he served in Vietnam, he and everyone around him were worried about the Domino Theory. They worried that if one country fell to communism, others would follow. (10:40) He thinks that is why they fought so hard in Vietnam to keep from losing. At the end of the day, they lost to Vietnam, but did not see the Domino they feared so much. The same happened while he served in Germany. He believes that the strength that America had in keeping communism from spreading would be the ultimate key in achieving victory. Looking back now, he says that we actually won. Germany (12:05)       Germany was great. It was a very different country than the USA. He lived with a German family while he was there and it was a great experience. They welcomed them with open arms and became part of that family. They went to all the festivals with them. When he was there, he remembers using a very outdated helicopter. They were in the process of getting rid of those and eventually brought in a new model. However, this newer model had some problems, and they were all grounded for several months. An army of engineers was sent in to try to fix the problem. There was not a lot to do at the time, but it was great to be in Germany. �        His wife was there with him, and they traveled the countryside. The neighbors and family they lived with then, they still keep in contact today. His daughter was born in Germany as well. A year ago, his wife took her back to Germany to see where she was born and to see the family. It was a rewarding time. And there was good food too and good beer. (14:25) When his daughter was born, the army had missed the due date considerably. One morning, his wife started having labor pains. He was told not to go to the hospital until the labor pains were more consistent. And they were a long way from the hospital. She called her husband at work, but he told her to wait. His friend’s wife went over to the house and stayed with her until he got home. That night she kicked him out of bed and demanded to go to the hospital. They drove to the hospital in the snow. They tried to get over a hill, but a train was coming, so they slid all the way back down the hill and waited for the train and started again. When he got her to the hospital, they said it was going to be a while, and sent him home. He got back to the house and fell asleep at the kitchen table. He woke up to the smell of boiling, burning coffee. He went back to the hospital, where he found his wife walking around, trying to get the baby to drop. He thinks they must have walked 25 miles that day. Finally the doctors just took the baby by C-section. (18:25) Vietnam (19:26)             Vietnam did not have many big battles. There were some firefights. Instead it was more like an air raid. He brought people in to fight and when they needed more, he brought more in. He always equated it to a good bus driver. It is difficult sometimes, knowing you have lost friends. The friendships he formed still were alive today. They kept in touch mainly by letters. One time he got a phone call that was nice. Most of the time, people just tried to make it through the day. They were all in a bad situation, and they grew close. A camaraderie formed, and they are still close today. A couple of them recently passed away due to cancer. Years later, everyone remembers the funny things that happened. People do not ever try to remember the bad, because it was always there. You never forget the bad, but what really lights you up is the funny things, and each other. When Vietnam ended, he was traveling in Georgia. He went into a hotel and heard it on the television. He knew that morning that it was basically over, and when they showed the chaos of the evacuation of the embassy, he knew it was over, regardless of how you felt about it. (24:25) The end of the Cold War was a much more joyous time, as it was a clear victory. He remembers turning on the T.V. and watching the Germans take hammers to the wall. Everyone was drinking and having a good time. �Post Duty (26:00)  He had been out of the army 2 years after Vietnam ended.  Everyone knew it was ending, just not the specifics.  He likes to look at the Ford Museum that is here in town, because Ford was president at the time. There are a lot of really neat things that he sees there. He believes that President did a wonderful job at the time.  His family was overjoyed to see him come home, though society as a whole was not particularly welcoming.  There was always coolness to some people.  He was glad to be home and be a civilian at the time.  He kept in touch with letters, phone calls, and some visiting. Mostly phone calls though.  He has not been involved with any veteran’s organizations after he got done. He got out and picked up where he left off and made a career after that.  The Army and the experiences that went with it had a great impact on him. He learned to get along with other people; he learned that can-do attitude can get you a long ways. Everything he learned there served him well in his future. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JoynerR1066V Title A name given to the resource Joyner, Ron (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Joyner, Ron Description An account of the resource Ron Joyner was drafted into the Army in 1970 as part of the first group to be drafted through the lottery system. He volunteered for helicopter pilot training, which he took at Fort Rucker, Alabama, and was then sent to Germany. From there, he was sent to Vietnam toward the end of American involvement there. Most of his missions in Vietnam involved ferrying troops into the field and bringing them back again, and he does not recall being involved in any large battles. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Blakeney, Julia (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a090cfc8ff09ba2fda00a5147aa117c8.jpg 50f20c20ff546d1f51325e5562259d2e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_439 Title A name given to the resource JR 2F-1 (SA-16A) utility Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource JR 2F-1 (SA-16A) utility, July 1, 1948. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948-07-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2a7069b4d95ba4ce699c2a52404366a1.jpg 30bae4f3f7ae98567fd6debc6e2a5cfa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_590 Title A name given to the resource JRM-1 Mars transport Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource JRM-1 Mars transport, October 1, 1947. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1947-10-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a6ca4d947061446f6c217f23d7edf356.jpg 78368110d8cfb386298c416d23086e71 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_514 Title A name given to the resource JRM-2 Mars cargo Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource JRM-2 Mars cargo, September 1, 1948. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948-09-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4857f5f808a2abf41959c49185592f9a.jpg 9d7c3357987ae32fe798b3cc94c6083f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_515 Title A name given to the resource JRM-2 Mars cargo Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource JRM-2 Mars cargo, September 1, 1948. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948-09-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ed06a375b7771a9ee4210653933f7016.jpg cb743a682e4c9fd916bcb035a9e06ce3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_518 Title A name given to the resource JRM-2 Mars cargo Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource JRM-2 Mars cargo, September 1, 1948. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948-09-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0e67381514a680bbff71de5e4eb6115a.pdf 3a57be96d0ff015e74585f129963741c PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Juan Jiménez Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 6/25/2012 Biography and Description Juan Jiménez is the younger brother of Antonio “Maloco” Jiménez and currently lives in Barrio San Salvador of Caguas, Puerto Rico, in the secluded road behind the tienda, or store, of the Trinidads. His home is newly built and sits on cement blocks like stilts, carved right into the hill but sitting halfway on air. It is difficult to turn your car around the dead end road as there are more hills to the other side. And he has a beautiful view of the center of San Salvador’s Monte Peluche, a tall, rocky mountain covered with vegetation. It is his section of paradise and what Mr. Jiménez worked for all his life when he lived in Chicago’s Lincoln Park neighborhood, on La Armitage. Mr. Jiménez is content, still raising his collegeaged daughter. His son is a proud Illinois State trooper. Mr. Jiménez was part of Council Number 9 of the Caballeros de San Juan and Damas de María at St. Teresa’s Church on Kenmore and Armitage. He played well and was a proud member of their softball team. It instilled character in the players, kept the community stable, and kept the youth away from hard drugs and off the streets. Each team had their own chanting cheerleaders, coaches, and managers. It was also good for small entrepreneurs who sold pasteles and pastelillos, rice and bean dinners, and T- shirts and flags and banners. The Catholic softball leagues provided the Puerto Rican version of the college town football game for the entire Puerto Rican family. It kept them united and parents knew at all times where they could find their children. It was a cost effective, after school fun that today would have eliminated the few existing after school programs. �And it was a true community program that did not have to be funded by the federal government or by city hall. But the leagues and the Caballeros and the Damas were being weakened and destroyed by discriminatory plans to “cleanse for profit” the lakefront and near downtown areas of Puerto Ricans, other minorities and the poor. And along with their displacement and destruction of neighborhood networks and the disenfranchisement of Puerto Rican and poor voters, breeding grounds for today’s super gangs were created. � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df06c938618b52fad12039221f98d8b1.mp4 046695338093175c3a4cf9b0f6cf6b62 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Juan Jiménez vídeo entrevista y biografía, entrevista 1 Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Jimenez_Juan_1 Title A name given to the resource Juan Jiménez video interview and biography Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, Juan Description An account of the resource Juan Jiménez is the younger brother of Antonio “Maloco” Jiménez and currently lives in Barrio San Salvador of Caguas, Puerto Rico, in the secluded road behind the tienda, or store, of the Trinidads. His home is newly built and sits on cement blocks like stilts, carved right into the hill but sitting halfway on air. It is difficult to turn your car around the dead end road as there are more hills to the other side. And he has a beautiful view of the center of San Salvador’s Monte Peluche, a tall, rocky mountain covered with vegetation. It is his section of paradise and what Mr. Jiménez worked for all his life when he lived in Chicago’s Lincoln Park neighborhood, on La Armitage. Mr. Jiménez is content, still raising his college-aged daughter. His son is a proud Illinois State trooper. Mr. Jiménez was part of Council Number 9 of the Caballeros de San Juan and Damas de María at St. Teresa’s Church on Kenmore and Armitage. He played well and was a proud member of their softball team. It instilled character in the players, kept the community stable, and kept the youth away from hard drugs and off the streets. Each team had their own chanting cheerleaders, coaches, and managers. It was also good for small entrepreneurs who sold pasteles and pastelillos, rice and bean dinners, and T- shirts and flags and banners. The Catholic softball leagues provided the Puerto Rican version of the college town football game for the entire Puerto Rican family. It kept them united and parents knew at all times where they could find their children. It was a cost effective, after school fun that today would have eliminated the few existing after school programs. And it was a true community program that did not have to be funded by the federal government or by city hall. But the leagues and the Caballeros and the Damas were being weakened and destroyed by discriminatory plans to “cleanse for profit” the lakefront and near downtown areas of Puerto Ricans, other minorities and the poor. And along with their displacement and destruction of neighborhood networks and the disenfranchisement of Puerto Rican and poor voters, breeding grounds for today’s super gangs were created. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Spanish language--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-06-25 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0125a847a00ab6d74a31dcc382cf6b8f.pdf bd1861b8d3551aecdd15d6043723187f PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Juan Rodríguez Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 6/21/2012 Biography and Description Juan Rodríguez is an excellent organizer and community leader. He was a member and leader of the Jovenes Nobles social club in San Salvador, Puerto Rico, where he was born and raised. Mr. Rodríguez recalls how they grew from just some initial conversations and worked together to raise funds to open and a weight-lifting and social club for barrio youth. It was a wonderful experience he says, learning via hard knocks to go door-to-door. The Jovenes would also travel to other parts of Puerto Rico, going to parties, dances, and other events. Mr. Rodríguez explains that for many years, many people used the donated clubhouse and the weight lifting equipment, which they supported through fundraisers and membership dues. Mr. Rodríguez later followed other family members to Aurora, Illinois where he worked for many years at the Caterpillar Plant on Montgomery Road. There he used his acquired organizing skills to help Don Teo Arroyo, also of San Salvador, to recruit local business people to organize the annual dinner/dance and the coronation of a queen for the first Puerto Rican parades held in Aurora. He also worked for several mayors and other elected officials, using the parade as leverage to get needed programs to benefit the Puerto Rican community there. Mr. Rodríguez says that he never had a problem convincing politicians of this need because the Puerto Rican community controlled the votes. Later, Mr. Rodríguez heard about the organizing work of the Young Lords in Chicago’s Lincoln Park. By that time his relatives from the Jiménez family had also come to Aurora, moving from Lincoln �Park and Wicker Park, Chicago. They moved because “the rents were too high,” as Mr. Rodríguez recalls. In Aurora, the Jiménez family was able to rent a large home which they needed since it was always filled with relatives and friends. Mr. Rodríguez and his brother Ramón would visit their home regularly, and assisted with organizing the parades. � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0e798749c1c7155932f06736c8b28de6.mp4 299beee8f2809a7ac60d677d1c237d38 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Juan Rodríguez vídeo entrevista y biografía Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales Idioma español--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Chicago (Ill.)--Política y gobierno--1951- Puertorriqueños--Illinois--Chicago--Vida social y costumbres Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Rodriguez_Juan Title A name given to the resource Juan Rodríguez video interview and biography Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rodríguez, Juan Description An account of the resource Juan Rodríguez was a member and leader of the Jovenes Nobles social club in San Salvador, Puerto Rico, where he was born and raised. Mr. Rodríguez later followed other family members to Aurora, Illinois where he worked for many years at the Caterpillar Plant on Montgomery Road. Later, Mr. Rodríguez heard about the organizing work of the Young Lords in Chicago’s Lincoln Park. By that time his relatives from the Jiménez family had also come to Aurora, moving from Lincoln Park and Wicker Park. Mr. Rodríguez and his brother Ramón would visit their home regularly, and assisted with organizing the parades. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Puerto Ricans--Personal narratives Spanish language--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Chicago (Ill.)--Politics and government--1951- Puerto Ricans--Illinois--Chicago--Social life and customs Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-06-21 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives