447 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/62f730f46af0d56face6c0801d345dae.mp4 8ed28ce186607426c2917e9fa924f180 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cd996ce62a08a4bb387094de17345219.pdf 64bc0901560300ec338b52685d4192bb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Lan Chi Le Length of Interview: 29:00 (00:00) JS: We’re here today with Lan Chi Le of Rockford, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State Veterans History Project. Now, can you start by telling us just a bit about your own background. For instance, where were you born? LCL: Well, my name is Lan Chi. I was born in Saigon, back in 1970. JS: And who were your parents? LCL: My mom is [Nah Phen] Li. She originate from My Tho City, that’s where she grew up from. And she has four brothers and four sisters, and they live in quite poor conditions, that she decided to move to the city, hoping that she could find a better job. And better pay. And when she moved to Saigon, back then, she meet my dad and that’s where she was working at, as a waitress. And that’s how she met my dad. My dad’s name is Joseph [Enab]. I know that he was there on a sub-contract, for about six months. His title, as far as I know, he worked for a company called GICC, for the Republic of Vietnam. His association was a Chief Management Officer. And it had something to do with pipeline, construct of pipeline. And pretty much road construction, that’s what he mainly do. (01:30) JS: Okay. Kind of a civil engineering job essentially. LCL: Yeah. JS: Now did your mother speak any English at that time? LCL: Um, she knew just a little bit. Enough to communicate verbally. Um, I guess that’s the only way to communicate with each other. And they know each other for just a short amount of time. Plus my mom just went to the city, so English was really tough for her at that time too. Yup, so that how it go. JS: Did she get a job with his company or did she continue to work in the restaurant, or what… LCL: Well, after she stay with him, she quit working. And just stayed around at home, and helping him out, and things like that. That’s pretty much it. JS: And then he was just there for six months and then he left? LCL: Yes. �JS: All right. But he did make some effort to recognize her as his partner there, whatever. You got some kind of documents? (02:29) LCL: Yeah, well, he knew that my mom got pregnant. That’s why before he left the country, he left behind his VIA number. Some kind of employee number. Along with, he gave my mom some money, to start a life there by herself, because he knew he wouldn’t be back. For some reason. Which I’m not quite sure why. And also, he give mom a document showing what he do and things like that, in case of someday I went looking for him. I would have all those documents set aside. JS: All right. Then what happened to her after he left? (03:12) LCL: When he left to go back to America, I think my mom was quite depressed. Because now she has given birth to me, she’s a single mom. But I guess, she has to go on with her life. She used the money and bought a house and raised me up in that house. Until the day we left in 1985. We still lived in that same house, in Saigon. JS: All right. So you were living in Saigon then for those early years of your life. Do you remember when the communist took over? Do you remember any of that, cause you were still pretty young. LCL: Yes, I was only about four, into five years old at that time. So too young for me to remember anything, but I did remember, or memorize one small event that I remember that one day when I was up in the balcony, upstairs playing. That must be right around, or just before the communists took over. There was one day where I see a lot of helicopters and jets flew by our home. I didn’t know why so many of them flew by, but I noticed that. And it scare me. Cause those engines were loud and there were many of them, not just one or two. Continuously, they fly right by our home. (04:33) LCL: Later I find out that we live twenty minutes away from the airport and with all the jets and the helicopters going on at that time, I think it’s just kind of a last minute before the communists took over. So they did some kind of wrap up or something. Over there. JS: Right. Cause the last of the American personnel were being evacuated and some of the Vietnamese were being brought out at that time, so you had an airlift out of the airport, and then the last part of it off of the roof of the US embassy there. So that was going on. All right. Now, but your mother was able to stay in her house, then, when the communists took over? They didn’t come and take it away from her? (05:09) LCL: They tried to threaten her, a few different times. Well, simply because I’m AmerAsian, half American, half Vietnamese, they used me as a target to suppress my mom. After the �communists took over, my mom had a hard time finding jobs. Anywhere. She just couldn’t be able to find anything. Um, simply because of me. Even my aunt, who lived together with my mom, also had a hard time finding a job too. Took her a total of about five years or more to be able to find a decent job in the hospital, but just as a receptionist or more like a security, by the gate. To admit patients in. And the reason she got that job was because she got a best friend that worked inside there, that get her in. Otherwise, finding a job for her would be impossible. Yep. (06:00) JS: All right. Now during that time, did you have problems getting things to eat? Or getting clothing? Things like that. Did you have enough money to survive? LCL: Well, my dad left behind probably not a whole lot of money. It, just enough for us to get a house, but, um, my mom have to find survival, someway, somehow. Right after 1975, our life was really really hard. I remember that we didn’t even have enough rice in the house to fulfill everybody’s needs. We had to substitute with yucca root. And sometimes yams and just a little bit of rice. Half of, a part of a meal of rice, but those meals. Or oatmeal. Just to get by. Yep. And so it was really really tough, the first few years after the communists took over. JS: All right. Now you’re living there for about ten years after they take over. Did you go to school during that time? (07:04) LCL: Yes, I was fortunate enough to attend school. Even though we were really poor. But I loved school anyway, so I went to school daily. And it’s um, because I am very different than the rest of group, I always got picked on. By a lot of bullies in school. They, um, they always picked on me and call me by all different names. And I have to go along with it, get used to it, because I know who I am. And I cannot change it. JS: Now, did the teachers or the people running the school treat you differently, because you were Amer-Asian? (07:50) LCL: Um, I didn’t notice a whole lot, which is a good thing. Like I said, they probably focused more on my mom and my aunt, who are looking for jobs. And I was too young for them to do anything, anyway. At school, they might say something, and I just don’t recall, a whole lot of it. But I know that, in school, with lecture, with history books regarding Vietnamese history, a lot of hatred towards America. I have to study, sometime give speech telling in front of the class, that I, you know, hate America. Just to go along with it, because I have to. And every day, to school, I have to wear a red scarf around my neck, symbolizing that I’m not just a student, at school, but also a Ho Chi Minh loyalty follower. Um. Yep, so… JS: And did you have to have a picture of Ho chi Minh in your house too? (08:50) LCL: Yes. We had a small picture hanging on the wall and it was required for every single family to have one. Without having one, we might end up in jail. So, right after the communists �took over, the picture was right away distributed by the government and it had to be hang up on the wall. The thing is we had to take down the…before the…what is it, the RN, the Republic of Vietnam flag. But my mom didn’t get rid of that. I found out, one day, she hid it on the top of the dresser, upstairs. It was all rolled up carefully and hidden away. She never throwed it away though. Which is something that I really admire her, up until this point. She still kept that. And hopefully, I can read that in her mind, she probably hoping to see if America would come back someday, to rescue the country out of the disaster like that. (09:42) JS: Okay. Now over the course of the, those ten years, before 1985, did life change? Did things kind of get better once your mother got a job? Or were there still a lot of the problems that you’d had all along? LCL: Even though my mom found a job at the hospital, income coming in just basic. We just have barely enough. To feed in the house, but not extra. The years get worse, especially around ’78 to ’82, 1982, where sometimes we didn’t have enough food supplies in the house, my mom’s clothing sell, furniture, anything that’s valuable. Anything, just to get buy, to have food in the house. So it was really really tough, for all of us. JS: All right. Now how did you wind up being able to come to America? (10:41) LCL: Well, we heard of a program called ODP (Orderly Departure Program). It’s a program called Organization for Departure and it’s, um, my mom heard about the program and right away she gathered all of our personal information and put it in an application and submit it. But it took us a total of over three years, before we got the ticket to America. So it take some time. But we got it. JS: Now did you have to pay for the plane tickets yourself or was there a charitable organization… LCL: No, we had… JS: The Americans paid for it? LCL: Yeah, yeah. The American organization paid for all that. Which is wonderful. The funny part, is that when we submit an application, they didn’t require a birth certificate or anything that prove my dad is, you know, dad of me. We, what they have is like an immigration officer, they would put me in the office and look at me, examining me, to see if I have anything that look like American, and that’s all there is to it. To prove for me, to be able to go to America. (11:52) JS: Now, how do they actually get you to America? Do you fly and where did you fly to? LCL: Yes. They booked tickets for me, my mom, and my sister. Three of us. But we didn’t, we couldn’t fly straight through to America. We have to stop by Philippine, Bantayan Island, for �six months. They put us in a training program called, what they called “Organized Culture,” something. A program, for six months. To train us so we could be prepared before we come to America. So learn like ESL English, and how every day life here. So when we came, we don’t have to be shocked. Or, you know, just to be ready. JS: Now they probably couldn’t prepare you for snow, though. (12:45) LCL: Uh, nope. (laughs) Uh, honestly, when we came here to America, the first thing that really amazed me was snow. Cause in Vietnam, the weather always very warm, to humidity. The eighty’s, ninety’s. But when we came here, to actually see snow falling down to the ground was amazing. I remember the first time when I spot snow, I ran out there in bare foot. I didn’t know it was going to be that cold! Yeah, but it was a wonderful experience, yep. JS: Let’s talk a little bit more about that orientation, or that thing you were doing in the Philippines. Were you there with a lot of other Amer-Asians children? LCL: Yes. Many just Amer-Asian families. They built like temporary homes for us. Each cubicle would divide into ten sections. We would live in each section, like that. Each family would put in. It was a little inconvenient but it was just something to get by. They distributed us food, drink, just basic needs. Weekly, and we walked to school and there’d be Pilipino teachers there to help us, teaching English. (13:54) JS: And did you get to know any of the other kids at all, or learn anything about what their experiences were like? LCL: Yes. One thing I did notice. I had a lot of Amer-Asian friends. But the thing is, they never mention anything about their past. Probably because many of them have very sad memories, so they didn’t bring it up for me. And I understand that. And even I had bad, even back then, I been bullied, called names and things like that. So I just kind of put that behind my mind. JS: So they were all looking forward… LCL: Yeah, forward. Pretty much, yep. Looking ahead. (14:27) JS: Now was your sister also Amer-Asian, or was she just Vietnamese? LCL: Yeah, my mom remarried, right after the communists took over. So my sister was purely one hundred percent Vietnamese. JS: But then did that marriage break up, or… �LCL: Um, well, when she came to America, he didn’t want to come along, so he decided to stay. My step-father decide to stay behind. I didn’t know why, but there must be a reason for it. Yep, so my mom and me and my sister were the only three that came to America. JS: All right. Now once you finish the six months in the Philippines, did you come directly to Michigan or did you settle somewhere else first? (15:11) LCL: Um, honestly, we didn’t know where we was gonna end up at. I didn’t even know that there was fifty some states in America. It just so new for me. The last month before we were headed to America, I knew that we were going to settle in Michigan. I didn’t know what Michigan state was like at all. I didn’t know whether there would be any Vietnamese family around. I remember that in November of 1985, right when we came into Gerald Ford International Airport, and we came to, and we saw a group of people that sponsored, and they welcome us in a very warm way. Make our heart warm up right away, because we were so nervous, when we come down to the airport, because we didn’t know what was going to happen. Who was going to take us home, or where we going to go next. Like that. So. It was a warm welcome, from this organization. They’re from Hamilton Reformed Church, and that was where we settled for about five years, before we moved to Holland, Michigan. (16:14) JS: Okay. Now what was the experience like for your mother, as far as you could tell? Did she adjust more or less easily than you did? LCL: When she came, she cried a lot. Because she missed her family. In Vietnam. She cried. I cried. You know, we have family that’s still left in Vietnam, that we don’t know whether we can be able to come back someday to see them, or not. And so it was tough on both of us. My sister was too little to know anything, so she is fine. But my mom, because she is a single mother, she has to work even harder. You know, when she tried to, when she first came, she have to try to get a driver’s license, learn to drive, get to work every day. And attend every night ESL class, to gain more of her English language knowledge. And it took her a few years. And not only that, she tried to learn the rules, and so that way, when the five years time is up, she can take the test to become a US citizen and she worked so hard that she achieved that, after five years. (17:25) JS: What kind of work was she doing? What kind of job did she get? LCL: Yeah, the first job of her was at Bil Mar factory, down at Zeeland, Boekeloo, Zeeland. Doing like Sara Lee meat, packaging, things like that. She worked there for about eleven to twelve years, in that factory. So it’s been a long time that she worked there. And after that, she decided to move to Holland and switch jobs to JB Labs, right on Riley Street, in Holland, working with medicines, until she retired, now a couple of months ago. But that whole entire time that she was here, she work at companies, one after another. (18:03) �JS: Okay. And did you start going to school here, as soon as you got here? LCL: Yes. When I came to Hamilton, that was the school I attend and that’s where I graduate, in 1990. At the high school. And I was actually really proud of myself because I know who I am, so I work a lot harder than anybody else. And I graduated as the top ten in my class. Which was, I was just very very proud at that time. You know, I work really hard, and then after that I attend Western (Michigan) University, in Kalamazoo, as an accounting degree and I graduated in ’94. So. JS: Now when you first got to that school, was it easy to make friends, or did kids not know what to do with you? (18:47) LCL: Yeah, it was really tough. I have to learn English from the beginning. Even though I have a training, a basic training in Philippine, but remember, we got Philippine teachers here, they got very heavy accents. And when we came here, it was like we totally learned a different language all over again. And it was very tough for me. But thanks for some of the teachers at Hamilton High School, they would set a few hours aside every day just for me and a few others kids, like Laotian, Thailand kids, things like that. To teach them more of the basic English. So that that way we could easily catch on, you know, the following year, into the regular classroom. You know. So it’s a helping out tremendously for me. For having that class. JS: Now were there any issues of discrimination, or people that treated you differently because you were Amer-Asian, or did that not really come up for you? (19:45) LCL: Here in America, you mean? Um, one thing I’ve noticed, honestly, is in Vietnam, I was considered to be a foreigner, you know, pretty much because I didn’t look like them. When I came here they don’t consider me American. They consider me Vietnamese. So it’s a little bit difficult for me to adjust in, to fit in. But eventually I get used to it, and up until now, because my English gets better, it’s just easier to cope and fit in, so that’s much easier a whole bunch. But the first couple of years was really difficult for me. Especially with English. They couldn’t understand what I was talking about. I couldn’t understand what they was talking about, to me. So it was challenging, yep. (20:30) JS: All right. Now is your husband himself, is he Vietnamese? LCL: Yeah. He is one hundred percent Vietnamese. I met him here in Holland, right after the five years when we moved to Holland after Hamilton. And I’ve been with him since. JS: And did his family have any issues with your being Amer-Asian, or… LCL: Oh, no. They are a wonderful family. Yeah, they accepted me in a very welcome way. So we are here, we are all a minority anyway so they didn’t have any discrimination or whatsoever going on. And my husband was always a very strong supporter of me. He comfort �me whenever I needed him, whenever I feel blue, or when I’m not comfortable in front of the people or like today’s interview for example. He talked and comforted me a lot, and just get me to feel better. Yeah, so very supportive. (21:30) JS: All right. Now do you pay much attention or listen to news about Vietnam, or what’s going on over there? LCL: Yes. While I watch national news almost every day, everything that was going on, especially to Vietnam. And not just Vietnam nowadays. I pay attention to almost every other country that America get involved in or so. It just a learning experience for me, day after day. JS: Would you like to go back to visit Vietnam at some point? LCL: I would love to go back to visit Vietnam. Well, first thing, to go back to visit my family, relatives, but I also would like to see if I can help any of the Amer-Asians that are still left behind there, because they were mostly in orphanage. They didn’t have any documents proving that they were, you know, half blood. JS: Right. (22:23) LCL: Um, so they got stuck in Vietnam. And I heard there are still several thousands of them, still in Vietnam. JS: Although by now, they’d be adults. LCL: Yeah. They’d got married and have children and everything. But they, very poor. No organization whatsoever supported them. No relatives supported them. So they pretty much on their own. And of course the community over there has not supported them, neither. So it’s very tough for them. JS: Now do you, or your mother, have any communication with your relatives back in Vietnam? LCL: Yes. We contact each other very regularly. As a matter of fact, by in 1997, my husband and I and my oldest child went back there for a month to visit. And that was a great experience. I got to visit his hometown. He got to visit my hometown. So it was a wonderful experience for us. And we would love, and looking forward, to go back there again some day. (23:17) JS: Okay. So the Vietnamese government is perfectly happy to have you come back as a tourist and spend money? LCL: Yes. Um, they would love to see us come back again, because I think right now the commerce is opening up a lot more to the tourists, because they know they we will bring home cash. Or bring home financially to help family. And that would help the economy too, so yeah, �it’s a lot changing than before. Much better, I think. But still to go back there and support the communist, I don’t think so, nope. JS: What did life seem to be like for people, when you went back in ’97? Were there…how was life there sort of different from how it is here? (24:04) LCL: Um, when I go back, I was really happy seeing my family, but I don’t feel like I fit in anymore. When I go back there, they look at me totally as a tourist, as an international person, you know, as a foreigner, and not a Vietnamese. Until I opened my mouth and start speaking in Vietnamese and they were shocked, seeing that I speak Vietnamese. But of course, they don’t treat me like any Vietnamese at all. Which is all right with me, I don’t mind. (laughs) JS: Now did you just go to Saigon when you were there? Or where is your husband’s family from? LCL: Yeah, my husband’s family is from [Phu Quoc], which is an island right off of Vietnam, a little bit. But, it took us six hours by boat to get to his island. But my hometown is right at Saigon, so much more convenient. (25:04) JS: All right. Let’s see. I think we’ve done a pretty good job going basic things that we were covering. Are there any kinds of individual events or things that happened to you that you remember, either about Vietnam or making a life over here, that sort of stand out in your memory? Let’s start with Vietnam first. Think back to the time when you were living there. What do you think of or what comes into your mind? LCL: Um, well, back when I was younger in Vietnam, I had to adopt their way of life, the communism way of life. Um, I remember when I was back there, when I was young, I got a very good voice as more like a passage, give a message out to the public. Most of the songs I sang over there were anti-America songs. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know honestly, I just sing my heart out, without knowing what was going on. Until now, I come to America, I sit back and I realize, something about it, I realize, gosh, I been saying a lot of bad things about my Dad, you know, side. JS: Yeah. (26:10) LCL: And it just more like a brainwash, really, some of the comments have done to me, you know. But, um, I learn it when I came here. It’s not easy. JS: Now when you were still in Vietnam and this kind of thing was happening, did your mother say much to you, or remind you that things aren’t really like this, or did she just kind of keep quiet? �LCL: She keep quiet most of the time. She didn’t want me to speak up, you know, in anger, because she wanted me to continue going on with school. And be knowing more, like any other kid. So, sometimes I…that’s why I never think hard of who I am exactly at that time. I did know that I was different than other kids around me, so that was the only thing I noticed and get picked on, so I did get used to it, you know. (27:04) JS: Now once you left Vietnam or whatever, did your mother tell you more about the rest of the story, or had she told you before you left? LCL: Well, she told me when we came here to America more, than over there in Vietnam. And when I came, I grew up more. And so I think she realized that I understand things better now, and so she explained and tell me stories about between her and my dad. Relationship, because I questioned sometime, you know. I think, did my dad really wanted me? Did my dad really love my mom? And things like that. So there were questions and stories that I would bring up and ask her. And she tried to answer me the best she can. And I can understand her situation as well. (27:52) JS: Okay. All right, that’s basically all I have by the way of questions. I’d just like to thank you for coming to talk to me today. LCL: Okay. And I do have to give a word out, I have to admit that I really appreciate America for giving out that ODP program, that immigration program. Because of that program, have saved hundreds and thousands of Amer-Asian children to America. And not only that, all their families too. So that is a greatly thing that I want to appreciate, the American government. But I would hope to see, if they had given out a special program or something that would help the rest of the Amer-Asian children that are still left behind in Vietnam that had nowhere to go. Because Vietnam wasn’t their homeland anyway. They have to force themselves to accept that. But that’d be nice to have a program, or from a private party or something like that, that would help them out. That would be greatly appreciated. (28:46) JS: Well, these days actually a lot of American Vietnam veterans go back to Vietnam and a lot of them do humanitarian projects so there’s some potential there for some help. LCL: Yeah, that would be wonderful. JS: Well, thank you very much. (29:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_LeL0494V Title A name given to the resource Le, Lan Chi (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-01-07 Description An account of the resource Ms. Le was born in Saigon in 1970 to an American father and Vietnamese mother. Her father had to leave, and her mother struggled to make a living, especially when the communists took over. A program called ODC allowed them to leave Vietnam, go to the Philippines for orientation for 6 months and then move to America. Mastering the English language was a struggle at first, but Ms. Le worked hard and became very successful. She said she is grateful to the ODC program. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Le, Lan Chi Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, Vietnamese-American Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/88615d7e36eafb5ca140d92768568f4f.mp4 969e00904d2a8d7c90bb354b57b224b7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f88c433ee6e0b93847f162044c91c154.pdf 5afbf865fc9ddc5d0e9f5f4270849e7f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Chris Leaver Peacetime Duty 1 hour 2 minutes 26 seconds (00:00:15) Early Life -Born in Toledo, Ohio -Mother was a bookkeeper -Father was a mechanical engineer -Moved around a few times -Parents divorced when he was six years old -Mother remarried when he was about thirteen years old -Moving made him comfortable with being a loner -Settled down in Madison, Indiana -Went to high school there -Not challenging for him -Small, rural community -Wanted to do a wide variety of things growing up -Couldn’t settle on one specific area -Didn’t visualize himself fulfilling the middle class model of “high school, college, job, family” -Wanted to go to college for engineering, computers, or electronics -Parents couldn’t afford that -Wanted to go to Purdue or Northwestern (00:03:09) Enlistment in the Navy -Applied for ROTC scholarship in high school and not selected -Heard about the GI Bill paying for college -Enlisted in the Navy to get money for college -Didn’t know what to expect -Recruiter didn’t give him a lot of information -Knew that he didn’t want to be a foot soldier -Knew that the Army or the Marine Corps was not for him -Wanted to work on fighter jets after seeing “Top Gun” (00:05:58) Basic Training -Went to boot camp in October 1989 -Trained in Orlando, Florida -Considered to be the easier boot camp to train at -Even in October it was hot from sunrise to sunset -Later into the winter it would be cold in the morning then hot in the afternoon -Coming from the Midwest he wasn’t prepared for the drastic temperature changes -Company commanders (drill instructors) were tough on the recruits -Entered into training with a 99% on the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) -Large number of recruits wanted to go into nuclear training -Graduated around the middle of December 1989 -Got two weeks of leave after that �(00:08:42) Adjusting to Life in the Military -Being a loner made adjustment to military living and teamwork difficult -Was used to working on his own -Wanted to complete training for his own sense of accomplishment -Adjusting was difficult, but was able to overcome the difficulty -Took a little bit of time to understand why the drill instructors were being tough on them -Fifth day of the first week was devoted to entirely breaking them down as individuals -After that could be built up as a unit -Brother (who had been in Marines) gave general advice about training -Nothing too specific because of the differences between the Navy and the Marines (00:12:01) Details about Basic Training -Spent a lot of time in the classroom -Basic naval training -Navigating around a ship -Types of aircraft -Knot tying -Basic firefighting -Put out actual fires in training scenarios -Fires were considered to be extremely dangerous on ships -Training lasted for about eight weeks and three days -Also had “processing days” for time to fill the company ranks -Training lasted about nine weeks for him all toll (00:13:52) Basic Aviation Electronics School -Went to Millington, Tennessee for basic aviation electronics school -Basic aviation electronics -Started with basic algebra -Trained by civilian math teachers -Actually taught a teacher a shortcut on a math problem -School was divided into six sections -Sections mentioned in the interview: -Basic math -Simple electronics -Advanced electronics -Training with naval electronics -Used training equipment that could be broken and repaired by recruits (00:17:25) Gender in the Navy -Men and women were kept separate in some cases, but integrated in others -Companies were either all male or all female -His “sister” company (company they worked with) was an all-female company -Worked together in classrooms -In school they slept in dormitory style barracks -Gender separated rooms -Integrated common areas (00:19:25) Advanced First Term Avionics -Two thirds of his class went to a fleet deployment -His third of the class went on to complete Advanced First Term Avionics (AFTA) training �-Had to wait for class to form -Sat around the base for two months cleaning the barracks -Went home on leave for a week -AFTA class was formed after that -Program lasted about three months -Spent a year in Millington -Six months of basic aviation school -Two months of downtime -Three months of AFTA -Went home on Christmas leave (00:20:39) Details about AFTA -AFTA simulators were sophisticated and computer driven -Lots of instruction and lab work involved -More focus dedicated to creative problem solving as opposed to rigid instruction (00:21:25) First Deployment-Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -Filled out preference sheet prior to deployment -Wanted to travel to distant, exotic places -Picked Alaska and New Zealand -Got deployed to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -Heard that it was a bad deployment -Didn’t want to go, but didn’t have enough clout to request redeployment -Guantanamo Bay was like a vacation after training -Started day at 7:30 AM and was done by 4:00 PM -Desert like conditions -Smaller half of the base was an airbase -Larger half of the base was for ships and training grounds -Had a general store, gas station, and outdoor movie theatre for recreational purposes -Did a lot of running -Had access to cable -Was only stationed there for ninety days -Assigned to airbase -Aviation electronics shop (00:25:02) Fleet Readiness Aviation Maintenance Program -Another part of training before Cuba, but after AFTA -Taught how to work on specific naval gear -Located in Naval Air Station Oceania at Virginia Beach, Virginia -By February it was warm enough to wear spring clothing on the beach (00:26:02) Gulf War while at Virginia Beach -Was on patrol when the Gulf War began -Was at the check-in desk and he was told that the bombardment had begun -CNN was broadcasting the frontline news -Instructor for class was two hours late the next day -Base was fortified overnight -Intense security screening for anyone entering the base -Went home for a few days on leave after completion of FRAMP -Came back when the aircraft carriers and fighter jets were returning �(00:28:39) Duties at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -There was no work for him to get done -Spent his days looking over training manuals -Learned how to repair gear that he hadn’t had experience with before -He was there for three months and no gear came in for repair -Had to pull watch duty once every couple weeks -Had to watch for illegal Cubans trying to stow away on aircraft -Encountered land crabs while patrolling empty barracks -They would chase you down if confronted -No one could leave or come into the base unless by plane -He was part of the eighteen month rotation for bachelors -You could get into a lottery for a leave to Puerto Rico -Eighteen month rotation to Cuba counted as thirty six months at sea (00:32:23) Naval Academy -While at Millington he applied for the ROTC Scholarship again and the Naval Academy -Came home on leave and had been awarded the ROTC Scholarship -Got to Cuba and got notified that he had been admitted into the Naval Academy -Wishes he would have just taken the ROTC Scholarship and gone to college -Shipped back to the States -Got a week and a half of leave -Reported to the Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland -First semester was more of boot camp style training -Spent a summer getting broken down and rebuilt again -More psychologically driven this time and not physical -Struggled with the adjustment to the Naval Academy -Put forth effort and focus in the second semester -Got on the Commandant’s List because of his achievements -Wound up doing terribly in engineering courses during sophomore year -Did phenomenally well in other courses -Practical and hands on courses were his specialty -End of sophomore year it was 1993 -Manpower reduction was going to be authorized by President Clinton -Got discharged and sent home in May 1993 (00:38:44) Second Deployment-Anacostia, Washington DC -Second week of August received a letter from the Navy -Told to report to Anacostia, Washington DC by August 31, 1993 -Had been hoping he could just go to college and not worry about the Navy -Reported to Anacostia -Got transferred multiple places over a few days -Got processed back into the system -Was sent to Bethesda for a medical examination -Assigned to Bachelor’s Officers Quarters as a staff worker -Officer in charge was demoralizing and unprofessional -Scammer, in charge of illegal gambling -Stayed there for two months �(00:41:33) Second Deployment-Andrews Air Force Base -Got sent to Andrews Air Force Base in November 1993 -Attached to VAQ209 Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron -Was going to work on EA6B’s that were used for electronic warfare -Was part of a TAR (training, administration, and reservist) unit -Considered to be active duty personnel -Didn’t usually go to sea though -His group would go out for war games on occasion -Cleaned the barracks for a few weeks -Did public works for about a month or two -He was told that they didn’t need a soldier working in the shop -Was assigned to be a trainer -He (a 3rd class petty officer) served alongside a 2nd class officer and a senior chief -Quickly realized why it was not a desirable position -2nd class officer was a control freak -Senior chief was spineless when it came to conflicts -Demoralizing and disenfranchising to see that (00:45:10) Going Home -Filled out paperwork for manpower reduction to voluntarily leave the Navy -Commanding officer denied it -Didn’t want the active slot to be left empty -Phone rang one morning and the 2nd class officer called -Told him that he (Leaver) was being sent home -Had to be off military property by December 16, 1994 -Took a week to train his replacement before leaving -Had everything packed and ready to go -Couldn’t find anyone to sign papers -Found a woman in a vacant office by happenstance -Officially left the Navy on December 16, 1994 (00:48:46) Computer Career -After leaving the Navy he got into computers -Enjoyed it and started working in IT -Worked with bigger companies over the years -Worked in computers for twenty years -Part of him wants to move on and get into a different field -Also wants to take care of his family though (00:49:52) September 11th and the Naval Reserves -9/11 deeply emotionally distressed him -Waited a year and in 2002 he talked to a recruiter -Joined the Michigan Naval Reserve -Kept his E4 rank and given six months to complete IT course -Only took three months to complete -Able to take E5 exam in 2003 -Prior experience in the Navy was helpful for being in the Reserve -Lost his civilian job in the summer of 2003 �-Being in the Reserve was helpful -Spent fifty eight days in training (above the normal required amount) -Applauded and rewarded for his volunteerism in Mayport, Florida -While in Mayport during training visited his sister in Orlando -Also went to Seaworld for free -Part of Budweiser’s campaign to give back to veterans (00:55:30) Reflections on Veterans -Appreciates companies that give back to veterans -Believes veterans should be treated better -Just doing their job -Don’t deserve to get attacked by civilians, the media, or politicians -Attack the politicians; they’re the ones to go to for grievances -Talks to Vietnam and Gulf War veterans whenever he can (00:57:05) Medical Issues and Change of Reserve Status -Did a few more years in the Reserve then started to have medical issues -Untreated bowlegged condition led to pain and severe issues by 2005 -Saw an orthopedic surgeon -Got slip to exempt him from running -Navy will only deal with medical exemptions for so long -They want you to be put before a medical board for evaluation -Got off active duty reserve status -Got placed into individual ready reserve in 2006 -Served a couple years on and off -Twelve years out of twenty year enlistment -Had a lapse in service -Wants to re-up -Would have to go to active duty again -Knees aren’t ready for that yet -Had second corrective knee surgery -Considers trying to re-up -Try to get his full twenty years in -Had to have leg straightening procedure done -Doesn’t want to be away from his family because of being active duty (00:59:57) Reflections on Service -Difficult times in Navy taught him how to adjust to situations -Being young and stubborn made learning difficult -In the Reserve he realized that he had to be his own force for change in life -GI Bill was instrumental in getting him to college -Went to Davenport College before going into Reserve -Got his bachelor’s degree in applied science and network engineering in 2006 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeaverC1568V Title A name given to the resource Leaver, Chris (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leaver, Chris Description An account of the resource Chris Leaver is a US Navy veteran that was on active duty in the late 1980s and the early 1990s and later in the early to mid-2000s (post 9/11). He was born in Toledo, Ohio and his family eventually moved to Madison, Indiana. After high school he enlisted in the Navy to get money for college. He went to Orlando, Florida for boot camp in October 1989 spent a year at Millington, Tennessee, training in aviation electronics. He was deployed to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, later accepted to the Naval Academy where he attended for two years, and was then sent to Andrews Air Force Base. He left the Navy in 1994, but joined the Michigan Naval Reserves in 2002, and went on active duty until 2006. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-02-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89f4f972b9dc7ebbb4908ec910533769.mp4 b367d8a0e025459b416cd91a9a60d6c9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/436c83d7394ede2c2cc37235195ebe35.pdf 0b2ae5a04d1faaf8a37571c90fe27268 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War Paul Lecours Interview Length: 1:08 Pre-enlistment / Early Service Period (00:00:23:00)  Born in Lebanon, New Hampshire in 1946 (00:00:23:00)  His father worked as a salesperson in a furniture store and his mother was a stay-at-home mom for Lecours and his sister (00:00:35:00)  In his sophomore year of college, Lecours contracted mono and had to leave school; once he finally became non-contagious, Lecours realized that he would either have to join four out of six classes mid-term or join the military, so he joined the military (00:00:53:00) o His father had served in the Air Force, so Lecours decided to join the Air Force (00:01:21:00) o He had been attending St. Anselm College, a liberal arts school on the east coast and he picked up more courses while he was in the service (00:01:26:00)  Lecours was in college during the 60’s, so if he could “walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time, he was going to get drafted” (00:01:44:00) o He had no desire to join the Army; the Air Force appealed to Lecours the most, just because he needed to slow down (00:01:50:00) o Lecours’ major in college was to be psychology, so he wanted to work with people; however, when he enlisted, Lecours took a math test, finished well before the time was up, and scored so well on the test that he began work with accounting and finance working in military pay (00:02:09:00)  Lecours originally went to Lackland Air Force Base for basic training (00:02:57:00) o The heavyset men ran a lot while the other men did a lot of drilling, including the obstacle course and calisthenics (00:03:13:00) o Because it was the Air Force, basic training lasted for six weeks and Lecours then transferred to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan for an additional two weeks of training (00:03:27:00) o Lecours was in great shape at the time; on the first day there, they went on a twomile run and Lecours beat the trainer (00:03:41:00)  As punishment, Lecours was put in charge of calisthenics, something he had to do anyway (00:03:54:00) o The instructors placed a large emphasis on military discipline; Lecours recalls anticipating a right turn, the instructor said left, and Lecours ran into another soldier (00:04:08:00)  The soldier walked up and punched Lecours in the nose (00:04:20:00)  Discipline was vital; they could not have men questioning orders, so the instructors broke the men down and built them back up (00:04:38:00)  The transition to military discipline felt logical for Lecours (00:04:55:00)  From Lackland, Lecours was stationed in Sault Ste. Marie at Kincheloe Air Force Base, a SAC (Strategic Air Command) base with B-52 bombers (00:05:09:00) � o The base was supposedly meant to protect the Soo Locks, but it was also the closest base for a direct strike into Russia (00:05:24:00) o While at Kincheloe, Lecours lucked out and worked in the command center receiving NORAD alerts, which was fascinating; whenever there was an alert, all personnel on the base were activated (00:05:36:00)  Lecours’ specific job was plotting radioactivity, which was a dumb job; if someone dropped a bomb, he had to plot how long radioactivity could go from the east coast to the west coast, etc. (00:06:05:00) o Lecours was at Kincheloe from June 1966 until December 1967; from there, he went home on leave and then to Vietnam (00:06:44:00) o All the alerts they did at Kincheloe was just practice, at least to Lecours’ knowledge; they merely told him to do something and he did it (00:07:33:00) o Lecours’ hometown in New Hampshire would be the coldest place in the United States three or four times a year, so going to school in below zero weather was no big deal; however, he had no concept of wind-chill because the town was in a valley, so when they handed out parkas at Kincheloe, Lecours thought it was a joke (00:07:46:00)  During the first storm, he did not make it was far as the next barracks before he went back and got his parka (00:08:07:00)  There was an alert one time and it was so foggy, that they had to have a man sitting on the bumper of the car (00:08:17:00) o The people at and around the base were awesome; most of the people on base were like Lecours, only there for a short period of time (00:08:33:00) o SAC eventually closed the base down and Lecours was in charge of the records transfer to Sawyer Air Force Base (00:09:14:00)  Not long after the base closed, many shops closed as well because the owners were dependent of soldiers spending money in them (00:09:27:00) Just after completing the records transfer to Sawyer, Lecours received his papers for Vietnam in the end of 1967 (00:09:49:00) Deployment to Vietnam (00:10:07:00)  To get to Vietnam, Lecours took a flight out of Washington; the flight was set to leave early in the morning and there was nothing to do except walk around in the slight drizzle of rain because all the shops were closed (00:10:07:00) o On the flight to Vietnam, Lecours flew on a commercial airliner chartered by the military (00:10:38:00) o During Lecours’ first trip to Vietnam, the plane first flew to Wake Island and then into Cam Ranh Bay; on his second trip to Vietnam, the plane for Seattle to Hawaii and then into Cam Ranh Bay (00:11:02:00)  His first impression of Vietnam was the heat (00:11:26:00) o It was just like basic training; in New Hampshire, the summers only got up to seventy degrees and when they opened the door in San Antonio, Lecours thought it was a blast furnace (00:11:29:00) o The soldiers went over thinking it was a one-way trip and when they opened the door, it did not look very active (00:12:10:00) �    Once the men were off the plane, the Air Force put them in a room and briefed them about their tour (00:12:17:00) o Lecours was assigned to the military pay section and ended up working with the OSI, which made the tour interesting (00:12:25:00) o When he first got to Vietnam, the Air Force issued Lecours an M16, but he had to store it and then he met the people he was going to be working with (00:13:13:00) Lecours worked out of a semi-permanent building and in Lecours’ section, at the back of the building, there were three or four men (00:13:52:00) o The men handled the pay records, answered pay inquires, processing the records of incoming soldiers, etc. (00:14:47:00) o Lecours was restricted to the base for eight months before he received his first assignment off-base, a money run in which the Air Force strapped a sidearm on him and told him that he was security; the MPC (Military Pay Scrip) changed constantly, although it was classified when and the men were never exactly sure when it would change (00:15:13:00)  He flew into Saigon, picked up two and a half million dollars in the new scrip, and returned to base; he and his men then worked until all the money was replaced (00:15:40:00)  Instead of using American money, the military issued soldiers MPC, which they used as long as they were in country; the Vietnamese had their own money but they loved to get a hold of MPC because it was worth more (00:16:11:00)  During the changes, the military changed from one color MPC to another overnight in an effort to stop counterfeiting (00:16:50:00)  People, especially Vietnamese, tried to play the market and get as much out of the MPCs as possible because the MPCs were worth more (00:17:12:00) While on the base, the men had a mama-san, a Vietnamese woman who cleaned out their hooch (00:17:46:00) o The men also had contact with different civilians who worked on the base; one Vietnamese woman working in the health facilities ended up inviting Lecours to her home (00:18:03:00) Cam Ranh Bay was a very secure base; it had never been hit in an attack but Lecours jokingly said that when he was going down the flight line was the first time that the base was going to be hit (00:18:30:00) o Just before the beginning of the Tet offensive, the enemy finally ended up attacking the base (00:18:44:00) o The base had the busiest hospital at the height of the war in the Air Force’s section and there were also sections for the Army and Navy, both of whom helped in bringing in supplies (00:18:48:00) o The bay was one of the deepest natural harbors in the world (00:19:07:00) o The base was beautiful, i.e. their beaches were nicer than Waikiki in Hawaii; men would meet their wives in Hawaii and come back and say the beaches at Cam Ranh Bay were nicer (00:19:14:00) �    At a certain point, Lecours began working with the OSI (Office of Special Investigation) while investigating a doctor working out of the hospital (00:19:39:00) o The investigation was interesting, but it was not something Lecours intentionally planned on; he had just walked into it (00:19:54:00) o Lecours’ whole goal in the military was to get to Germany; he volunteered for: Germany and Guam, Germany and Vietnam, etc. (00:20:00:00)  Once he was out of the military, the trial took place in Bitburg, Germany and the government flew Lecours to Germany to testify about the Vietnam portion of the investigation (00:20:10:00) o During the investigation, there was a corrupt doctor and they had to get proof that he was corrupt, which was where Lecours came in (00:20:59:00)  Lecours went to the hospital and made contact with another doctor, a neurosurgeon, who was the antithesis of the corrupt doctor (00:21:13:00)  He ended up going to the hospital on several occasions (00:21:34:00) o The OSI wanted Lecours to help in another investigation but during the investigation at the hospital, Lecours ended up sleeping through rocket attacks, so he decided to give the investigation to another kid, who turned out to do the job really well (00:22:15:00)  Lecours later checked on the investigation while in Washington and after thirty days, the kid had already helped arrest one person from the corrupt finance operation (00:22:36:00) During the Tet offensive, security on the base tightened (00:23:12:00) o One of the men on the base was short, meaning he had less than thirty days until he went home, and they were watching a movie one time when they heard whooshing sounds and explosions; eight rounds had come onto the base and hit three fuel bladders near the flight line (00:23:18:00)  From where the men were watching the movie to the flight line was about a mile and Lecours said he thought they were under attack, to which the short timer replied that they were not going to get hit (00:23:53:00)  Lecours told him to check it out and when he turned around and saw the flames, he asked what they should do; Lecours suggested waiting for the siren to go off (00:24:13:00)  Sure enough, the movie went off and the siren went on, so the men went back to their hooch, turned their lights off, pulled on their flak jackets, and opened a beer (00:24:21:00) o There were bunkers around the base for the protection but as far as protection inside the base, the men could only put on their flak jackets and helmets and get under their bunks, which would not have mattered anyway if a direct hit occurred on the hooch (00:24:46:00) o There was not much point in targeting the housing area; rockets might have come in once while Lecours was at the base (00:25:23:00) From Cam Ranh Bay, Lecours received R&R to Australia and before beginning his second tour, he flew to Tokyo (00:25:49:00) While staying in Vietnam, he went to Nha Trang for the beaches, but that only involved hopping into a jeep and driving over, and to Saigon (00:26:12:00) � o The first time he went to Saigon was for the money run and the second time was to see a friend who he had served with in Sault Ste. Marie (00:26:39:00)  On the second trip, Lecours went with a man who was on his third tour and knew some Chinese people in the city; they ended up in the Cholon area after curfew, which meant they had to spend the night because of fighting in the area (00:23:18:00) o Saigon struck Lecours as a metropolitan city with a lot of people; it was not New York City but there was a lot of hustle and bustle (00:27:41:00)  He remembers getting onto a cycle-bike taxi and they ended up stopping in front of the embassy in Saigon; they heard yelling, telling them to move the bike, so off they went (00:28:01:00)  It was interesting that he could go into a city that was in the middle of a war zone, go to the Continental Hotel, and have a great meal (00:28:44:00)  Another time, Lecours went up and talked with a doorman who happened to be French and a holdover from before the war; this was not something that Lecours expected to see (00:28:53:00)  Cholon was the Chinese section of the city; he does not know who was fighting in the area and because of the curfew, even the police could shoot at them (00:29:36:00)  The lifestyle in Cholon and Vietnam was simply a different culture and it was something Lecours accepted (00:30:28:00)  One day, he heard Americans complaining that Americans had been there for seven years and the Vietnamese still did not speak English, to which Lecours retorted “why don’t you learn how to speak Vietnamese” (00:30:41:00)  Lecours knew enough Vietnamese to keep himself out of trouble; he learned the language from the momma-san who cleaned his hooch and other people who worked on the base (00:31:06:00) Lecours signed on for an extended tour partly because his investigation with the OSI into the corrupt doctor at the hospital on the base (00:31:26:00) o Another factor was that he would have thirty days of leave and he could be home for Christmas for the annual family reunion; however, some of the people at the reunion would be drunk for two weeks straight, an environment Lecours did not want to be in (00:31:37:00) o Lecours’ second tour in Vietnam only lasted six months (00:32:02:00)  The Army understood that there was only so much any man could withstand (00:32:27:00) o It was difficult when Lecours first came back from his Christmas leave but it was not like he had a choice, he just went back (00:32:46:00) o Lecours went home before Christmas 1968 and returned to Vietnam in January 1969 (00:33:12:00)  When he went home, Lecours did not see a lot of an anti-war sentiment because New Hampshire at the time was very conservative; as well, the places where he stayed were rather isolated and did not have a large population (00:33:26:00) �  He was also not watching a lot of television (00:34:11:00) One time, Lecours wrote a letter to the Manchester Union Leader, a very conservative newspaper, and asked the editor what they were doing in Vietnam; there were race riots and students taking over college campuses and Lecours believed that the soldiers should leave Vietnam if only to take care of problems at home (00:34:28:00) o The letter ended up winning an award as the best untitled letter to the editor, but Lecours never even went to the awards ceremony because he could have cared less (00:35:18:00) o When he first went to Vietnam, Lecours believed that there was a cost for freedom and it was his duty to defend that (00:35:40:00)  When Lecours went home for Christmas, he got into an argument with his father over why he volunteered to continued his tour (00:36:27:00)  Lecours partially believed in the domino theory as a credible reason to fight the war (00:37:13:00) Return to Vietnam / Extended Deployment (00:37:49:00)  When he went back to Vietnam, Lecours knew what he was going back to (00:37:49:00) o The first time he went over, Lecours felt it was going to be a one-way trip, a feeling he did not have the second time he went over; he felt more secure and that they had more protection (00:38:06:00)  Still, enemy attacked and sappers crawled on the base; one time, a sapper threw a satchel charge into a room where a nurse was writing a letter but thankfully, it was a dud (00:38:16:00) o That night, the only casualty was a Korean in the hospital who had lost his legs; they believe that he had seen the enemy because he had gotten himself out of bed and dragged his body after them (00:38:38:00) o One night, Lecours almost tripped over an enemy in his black pajamas as Lecours returned from the flight line; Lecours said something to the man and continued back to his hooch and thinking back, he realizes that the man was checking the locations of the planes for mortar or rocket strikes (00:38:58:00)  Lecours was returning either early in the morning or late at night from duty on the flight line, but he had no weapons to do anything to the enemy; he had been working at the pilot’s facility (00:39:26:00) o The pilot’s facility was in a bunker in a depression and if the enemy attacked, they could just lob a couple of grenades down into it (00:40:08:00) o The enemy attacks would sporadically hit a target (00:41:03:00)  If intelligence believed that a base was going to be attacked, then they would fly the planes into Cam Ranh Bay because of all the base’s security, including a detachment of Koreans guarding the coast (00:41:07:00) o The Korean soldiers were “awesome”; they fought the war in a much different way than the American soldiers (00:41:29:00)  They were well-equipped and had supplies and equipment that easily rivaled the American’s (00:41:45:00)  Whenever they brought back prisoners, the prisoners talked and one time, when they lost a soldiers, they strung up four or six VC on the wire around the facility and let them die (00:42:22:00) �     The average Vietnamese was trying to live his life and if they were someone of any intelligence, such as the mayor or the teacher, the VC would kill them (00:43:13:00) o The Vietnamese were caught between dealing with the Americans or being killed by the bad guys (00:43:32:00) The Americans went into the situation believing they were right in what they were doing but that belief wore down over time; the Vietnamese were committed but the American soldiers were there because it was their job (00:43:45:00) o It is difficult to win a war like that because on any given day, they would attack a hill, lose three or four men, and abandon the hill, yet two weeks later, they were attacking the same hill (00:44:10:00) o The phrase Lecours heard the most was “whatever patriotism I ever had, I’ve lost it since I’ve been here”; he heard it from all different soldiers (00:44:38:00) o Because it was the Air Force and the men did their jobs, but it still wore them down, especially going into the hospital (00:45:22:00) o The entire experience wore Lecours down; if they were going to fight the war, then fight the war, so instead of attacking the same hill day after day, attack the North (00:45:54:00) o The rules of engagement made the fighting difficult; the soldiers had to go through a process of recognition before they could fire on the VC, unless they had been fired upon; on one occasion, Snoopy, a converted C-130 gunship, requested permission to fire and was denied unless fired upon (00:47:08:00) He remembers a flight on Continental where the stewardess were serving everyone and Lecours thanked them because he knew some of the men were not coming back and those stewardesses were one of the last things the soldiers would remember (00:48:28:00) One thing that stands out in Lecours’ mind is the futility of the experience; the experience seemed futile to Lecours because they could not win the war the way that they were fighting it (00:49:28:00) On one occasion, a VC was trying to sneak up on another man at night and when Lecours gave the first order to halt, he pulled the bolt back on his rifle as well; the VC immediately stood up and surrendered (00:50:15:00) o Still, the men were given the rules they had to follow, which ended up hindering, more than helping, them (00:50:50:00) o To this day, Lecours would go back; he enjoyed the people and watching the kids playing with nothing and being happy (00:51:01:00) Return to the United States / End of Service (00:51:32:00)  From Vietnam, Lecours transferred to Washington D.C.; because it was the highest military location, Lecours thought it would be a great assignment (00:51:19:00) o Lecours was stationed at Bolling Air Force Base (00:51:32:00)  One of the first things that struck Lecours was the design of the officer’s club on the base, which he considers on of the top ten architectural wonders of the world (00:51:38:00) o While in Washington, Lecours went back to working in military pay (00:52:01:00) �  o After going to Vietnam, Lecours wanted some answers but when he went up to Capitol Hill, he realized that the Congressmen could not answer a yes or no question to save their life (00:52:25:00)  One time, Lecours went and talked with a man name Tom Macintyre, a supposed “straight-shooter” Senator from New Hampshire; and every time Lecours asked him a question, the Senator went to his filing cabinet and pulled out a newsletter; he discovered that almost all the congressmen were like that (00:52:36:00)  He also discovered that it was a wasteful society; they spent money like it was nothing, something Lecours was not prepared for (00:53:10:00) o Lecours was in Washington from July 1969 until March 1970 (00:53:31:00)  He worked predominantly with people of the same rank or lower, including two women (00:54:47:00)  One time, Lecours took one of the women out to dinner and when he came back, he received flak from the other one; he was just a kid and he did not know how to handle working with the women (00:55:10:00) o Lecours knew a colonel and his family really well and while he was in Washington, the colonel offered to get Lecours a tuxedo so that he could go to Nixon inauguration; he did not go, although now he wishes he had (00:55:51:00)  At the time, Lecours wanted nothing to do with the politicians; to him, the politicians were exactly what he expected them to be (00:56:12:00) o Another time, Lecours was invited to a Senate commission but he questioned what would have happened because none of the Senators could answer a yes or no question while in their office (00:56:23:00)  He would have just watched the commission, not given an sort of testimony (00:56:40:00) o When he went to Germany, Lecours did have to testify, but only as part of the investigation (00:57:00:00) When Lecours first joined the military, he did not expect to make a career of it; part of the influence was to get the GI Bill for financial help in college (00:57:15:00) o One thing that he missed was that if he came back from Vietnam and went to college, how would he handle to protests if they found out he was a Vietnam veteran (00:57:52:00) Everyone received the offer to re-enlist, especially with the offer of a promotion if they did so; they offered Lecours the opportunity to work with the OSI and to get special allowances for food and clothes (00:58:33:00) o However, Lecours believed the military was not going to go twenty years without a war; they were already fighting in countries he had never heard of, being from a small town in New Hampshire (00:58:56:00) o The appeal of staying in the military had its moments, but not after Washington; they could not fight a war from Washington because they did not fully know what was going on (00:59:40:00) Post-Military Life (01:00:03:00)  Lecours was finally discharged in 1970 (01:00:03:00) �   o One of the first things he did once he got out of the military was send resumes to publishing companies because he had worked with a publishing company before serving (01:00:09:00) o He began working for 84 Lumber in Baltimore and over time, the job became more appealing because Lecours believed the company had a good growth market in the area; however, Lecours looked at the manager, who was thirty-seven years old and ran from morning until evening, and he questioned if that was the life he really wanted to live (01:00:22:00) o After leaving 84 Lumber, Lecours returned home before interviewing with a publishing company, who hired him and assigned him to work in Michigan region as the regional sales manager for Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio (01:01:02:00)  He had the largest wholesale in the world in Detroit and he could not conceptualize that Michigan was bigger than all of New England (01:00:26:00) o Lecours began working in Michigan in September 1970 and worked for the company until June or July of the following year (01:01:51:00)  Lecours slowly got burnt out of the job; his roommate worked in a different division of the company and was home every weekend with Lecours was gone for two weeks at a time (01:02:16:00) o While he was working for the publishing company, a man in Farm Bureau Insurance offered him a job, which Lecours accepted (01:03:06:00)  He started as an agent then transferred over to corporate (01:03:14:00) o Lecours was only with the company in 1971 and 1972 before he received the opportunity to work as a department head for an independent agent in Muskegon, Michigan (01:03:30:00)  Lecours worked in Muskegon from 1973 until 1978; he liked the city but his wife wanted to get back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, so in 1978, they moved back to Grand Rapids to work for a small insurance business (01:03:43:00) o During the 1980 recession, it was tough to find work and Lecours realized that the only people getting jobs were secretaries (01:04:23:00) o Finally, he got a job working for a consulting firm, where he worked for sixteen years working with the smaller companies that needed help (01:05:11:00) One time when he and his family went to visit Lecours’ parents, Lecours son threw his jacket on the floor and Lecours’ mother told him to pick it up and it was not something Lecours would do; she said that growing up, there was a place for everything and Lecours’ room was spotless (01:05:55:00) o However, she said that after he went to that Vietnam thing, he came back a pig (01:06:36:00) During the fighting things tended to lose perspective because they might be dead the next day (01:06:50:00) He gained more of an appreciation for life; life is tenuous (01:07:14:00) o He also gained insight into his government that he never should have gotten; it is better to walk around smart and happy (01:07:28:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LecoursP Title A name given to the resource Lecours, Paul (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lecours, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Lecours was born in Lebanon, New Hampshire in 1946 and decided to join the U.S. Air Force in 1966 because of concerns that he wouldn't be able to keep his deferment from the draft. Following basic training, Lecours briefly served at a Strategic Air Command base in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan before deploying to Vietnam. During his tour in Vietnam, the Air Force stationed Lecours at Cam Ranh Bay in the military pay section. While with that section, Lecours worked on one occasion with the Office of Special Investigation doing an investigation of a corrupt doctor at the base hospital. Following his main tour, Lecours signed for a six month extension to finish said investigation then transferred to Washington D.C., where he finished the remainder of his time in the service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-09-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81a0480cc77717a3359e57c2844ecb8e.mp4 12b61f99188ef3d9178abfc7e4efcd9e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b3144a3e39a6acecd54dbe35543fff1e.pdf f58fcb3f0fc5c27fe3e58abd78f3e892 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW NOELLA LeDUC Women in Baseball Born: December 23, 1933 Resides: Interviewed by: Frank Boring, GVSU Veterans History Project, August 5, 2010, Detroit, MI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion. Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, May 19, 2011 Interviewer: “If we could begin with your full name and where and when you were born?” Noella LeDuc, Graniteville, Massachusetts, date of birth, 12-23-1933. Interviewer: “What was your early childhood like? Where did you grow-up and your family?” Well, it was a small town and I played baseball all of the time, most of the time. I had a ballpark across the street from my house and if I wasn‟t there the boys came over and got me. We would pick sides and play all morning and in the afternoon we would go swimming, come home and after supper, go play ball again and then go home and go to bed. 33:35 My mother and father always knew where to find me—at the ball field. Interviewer: “What was your early schooling like? How was school?” School was good and I went as far as the freshman year in high school because I heard about the girl‟s baseball. My freshman year I had come home from school and I had seen the boys playing across the street from my house and I wondered why they were playing there because they had their own field, our field was better though, so I went in the house and changed my clothes and ran over there again, to the field, and the boys came up and asked if I would hit some fly balls to them to get ready for the game. I said, “sure”, and I did that for about ten minutes and went back and sat on the bench. This man came up to 1 �me and asked me if I would like to play professional baseball and I said, “yeah, I‟m trying to because I saw it in a magazine”, and he said, “well, there‟s a girl eight miles from here that plays”, and he gave me her name and address and everything, which is Rita Briggs. 34:37 He said, “she‟s gone right now, she left for spring training and she‟ll be home in October. I‟ll give you her address and you can go up and see her in October”. I did that and the first time I went up there she wasn‟t home yet, she was a little bit late coming home. I went up the following week and she was there, and when I got there they were giving her a party, so she said, “I‟ll come and see you tomorrow, give me your address”, and she did, she came to see me the next day, which was a Sunday. She tried me out, throwing the ball, hitting and all that stuff and she said, “you‟ll make it”, so that‟s how I did. Interviewer: “How old were you?” I was seventeen when I started, yeah. Interviewer: “I‟m kind of curious because the man that told you to go and talk to her, was he a scout?” No, he worked with my mother in the mill. My mother worked in a mill and he worked with my mother. He introduced himself because I didn‟t know him. He said, “I know your mother because I work with her”, and all that stuff and then he told me about Rita and gave me her address and everything. 35:38 He had seen her play at the high school where she lived. She was on the boy‟s team at the school. Interviewer: “You said you saw the notice in a magazine?” Yeah, it was in the newspaper, newspaper magazine. Yeah, Dottie Schroeder was right on the cover and I said to my dad, “I‟m going to beat her dad”, and I did at times. 2 �Interviewer: “Oh my gosh, but we‟ll check with her on that one right?” Well, she is dead she‟s dead. She was a good ball player, very good. Interviewer: “So you met the woman who was already playing and she told you how to contact the league? Is that right?” No, she gave me a tryout when she came home and she said, “you won‟t have any trouble making it, and come spring training you‟ll go out with me and this other girl from Rhode Island”, and I went out with them and they tried me out again over there and they said, “you got it”. 36:37 Interviewer: “Well, how did you get there?” We drove out. Interviewer: “So somebody had a car?” Yeah, Rita Briggs, she had a car. Interviewer: “Your parents were ok with this?” Yeah, well, my grandfather was a priest, so when he heard I was going to play ball he went and checked it out and he said, “It‟s ok, she‟ll be all right”, because of the rules we had and everything you know. He said, “she‟ll be ok”. Interviewer: “I want you to go back to that first day of tryouts. You said you drove out there in a car, were you excited about this?” Oh yeah, I was a little nervous too because it was my first time being away from home without my parents, so I was a little nervous, but they encouraged me a bit, and Marilyn Jones, they said, “don‟t worry you‟ll make it”. Interviewer: “Take us back, what was it like to show up there? Were there a lot of girls out there playing?” 37:32 3 �No, first of all we went to the office and signed up and all this and that. They told me how much money I would make and all that baloney you know, and the next day we had to go to the clubhouse at the ballpark and get our uniforms and start practicing and all that, and Johnny Rawlings was my manager, and a good man, good man. Interviewer: “So, this was 1951?” 1951, yes Interviewer: “Now, by that time, was the league throwing overhand?” Yes Interviewer: “Did you have any experience playing overhand baseball?” Yeah, because I was with the boys all the time, I didn‟t have a problem with that, and the ball was a little bit bigger when I went in, just a little bit bigger than a regular baseball. In 1954 they went back to the size of a regular baseball and that was nice because I could get my hand on it good you know, but I didn‟t have any trouble with the ball they had, it was only slightly bigger you know.” 38:32 Interviewer: “So, what was the first season like? You‟re a rookie, right?” Yes I was a rookie, yeah, yeah, and another girl was young too just like me, seventeen and we got going in spring training and all that and then we got into the season, I was playing, I got a base hit and I got down to second base on this gals base hit and then another one came up and I had to—excuse me, that was wrong—they tried to pick me off at second base, they figured she‟s a rookie and she isn‟t going to—I was ready, so she made a bad throw and I made a beeline for third base and as I was running I dislocated my elbow and Johnny gives me the sign to slide, so I slide, I‟m a little bit too close to the 4 �bag, but I said, “I got to do what he says”, so I injured the ligaments in my ankle, so I was out for a little while on that, and I had to go to the doctors. 39:32 Interviewer: “The first season, you didn‟t sit on the bench? You were actually playing?” Yeah Interviewer: “Wow, and what position?” I was playing in the outfield, left field or right field. Interviewer: “That first season, you of course played for what team?” The Peoria Red Wings Interviewer: “What did the uniform look like?” It was white with a little red on it, the home uniform and the road uniform, I believe, was red, and we had a red hat. Interviewer: “How did you like the uniform?” Well, I would rather of had pants because when you scratch up your legs and I tore my knees open twice you know you—especially in South Bend, that was terrible. I had to slide home and I scraped this whole knee out and blood was pouring out, so they cleared the bench so I could sit and the chaperone would clean it up. Then they poured the methiolate on it and you know how that feels, whewee and a couple of the girls were blowing on it so it wouldn‟t sting so much. 40:36 They taped me up and I went out in the field again. I got that all healed up and the first thing you know I got this leg. Interviewer: “What was it like playing—now you played with the boys when you were very young, you played through most of your younger years and now you‟re 5 �playing in professional baseball. How was that? Did you feel like you were good enough? Did you feel like you were still a rookie? How did you feel?” Well, I felt—I was pretty proud to get there and I felt good about it. I was nervous at times because when you‟re young, seventeen, you‟re going to be nervous, but eventually that went away and I just settled right down and went with it. Johnny, he was an excellent, excellent man to work for, he was very good. Interviewer: “One of the things I‟ve asked everybody about is their manager. Did he treat you like a woman or did he treat you like a ball player?” 41:39 Like a ball player, and if we had to make a double play on anybody and someone‟s on first base and want to get on second they want to get out of the way. He said, “aim for the horn”. He called the nose the horn and he said, “If they don‟t dive they‟re going to have a black eye”, but they are going to move if a balls coming at their head you know. Interviewer: “The other question about managers is, several women have said that even though they knew how to play baseball, the managers taught them little professional tricks that they didn‟t even know about. Did you learn certain things from them like how to slide or run or throw the ball that was different than what you did?” Well, I really didn‟t do any sliding when I was young you know and they told you how to do that and we never went in with our bellies like that, never that way. It was feet first and they told you how to do it and sometimes you‟re going to get hurt you know like I did. 42:38 Interviewer: “How were the fans your first season?” 6 �They were nice they were nice, yeah. I remember one night I was playing right field and also, the manager‟s always teach you—you always know how many outs there are, where you‟re going to throw the ball if you get it, where the base runners are and all this and that. So, this particular night I was playing right field, so I said to myself, “well, I got a runner on third and if that balls hit to me, I got to get it in quick because she‟s fast”, so the ball was hit to me and my momentum carried me over the foul line a little bit, so I had to make a quick turn and make a quick throw home and I made a bullet throw and nailed her. You should have heard the crowd, “wow, what an arm, what an arm”, and that made me feel good, that was good. We had a pretty big crowd that night too. 43:35 Interviewer: “The first season, did a lot of people show up at these games?” Yeah, yeah Interviewer: “It wasn‟t until later that things changed?” Yeah, they got down Interviewer: “We‟ll get to that later, but I just wanted to make sure—the first season you had a lot of people show up?” Yeah, we had good crowds, yes. Interviewer: “Now, you had chaperones, but you were too late for the charm school right? You didn‟t have to go through all that?” No, they told us what we had to do. Interviewer: “What did you have to do?” Well, you have to be dressed properly at all times, you have to speak good to all people and not be nasty to them, and if anybody gets nasty with you, you just turn around and walk away, you don‟t get nasty. That‟s what they told us to do and that‟s what we did. 7 �Interviewer: “But you were wearing blue jeans all the time, right?” Well, when we could, we could you know. When you were living in your home you could, but if you went out, you had to put on a skirt, but one time we snuck out. My landlady had to go to the drugstore down the street, I had to get something, my medication and I said, “Oh, I‟ll just run down in my shorts”, and I ran down there and I ran back quick and Hazel said, “you better get out of here”, and I said, “yeah, I will”. 44:53 She was my landlady you know. Interviewer: “Let‟s talk about that, when you started with this league you had to have living arrangements, so what were your living arrangements the first season?” Joyce Westerman, who you are going to be interviewing tomorrow, I lived with her and Maggie Russo at Hazel‟s house. Maggie played a year before me and Joyce played quite a few years, she was a veteran. They took care of me too. They helped me a lot and I call Joyce my boss. She is a good girl, very good lady. 45:35 Interviewer: “So, you were staying in somebody‟s house, you had your own room or did you share a room?” No, I had a room upstairs because my landlady‟s mother use to live up there and she had passed away, so Hazel put me up there because they had this nice big room up there, and Joyce and Maggie lived downstairs. Interviewer: “How was your social life during this period of time?” Well, do you mean with men?” Interviewer: “Just anything, going out to movies or anything.” 8 �Oh yeah, after ball games or rained out games, we would go to movies and stuff like that, or go shopping you know, but I didn‟t have time for men. My mind was on baseball and that was it. Interviewer: “The money was pretty good though?” Yeah, it was not bad, I didn‟t think it was too bad because I use to send some of it home to my mom. I kept just enough, what I needed, and I would send the rest to her. I wanted her to have it and what did she do? She put it in a bank account, a good mama. She knew it was hers and she could get it anytime she wanted, if she needed it you know. 46:38 Interviewer: “So then you play your first season, do you come back home?” Yup Interviewer: “Were you finishing school?” I didn‟t go back, I had to go to work and everything because I had to help out at home a little bit, and if February my father died, so—no, no, that‟s a little bit too soon it was 1954 that my father died. Interviewer: “So, you had to work, and did anybody at work know that you had played professional baseball?” Yeah, because all I had to do is walk in the building and, “you got a job”, really. Interviewer: “So, how did you find out—did you already know you were going to play a second season or did you find out some other way?” They told us we were going to move to Battle Creek, Michigan the following year and that year we had spring training down in North Carolina, was it North Carolina or South Carolina? I don‟t remember exactly, but we had spring training down there with Fort 9 �Wayne, Indiana and Jimmy Fox was managing then. He was a good man, that man was a good man. 47:47 We had Guy Bush for a manager, he was with Chicago, he was a Chicago player, a pitcher. We‟re working our way back after spring training and we stop at Washington D.C to play a game and I‟m out in the field and looking around in the stands for my parents because they were going to come and see me. He comes up and pats me on the back and he said, “I‟m going to make a pitcher out of you Pink”, and I didn‟t want to do that, but I said, “I‟ll do it”. so a couple of the girls took me to the mound and they started showing me what to do and all that, and all of a sudden the clouds came and it was black and it was going to rain and I‟m looking for my folks. He said, “We‟re going to go because it‟s going to rain”, and they threw us on the bus and took us to Alexandria Virginia where we were staying and my parents couldn‟t find me, but they knew where to find me at the hotel, they knew where I was going to be staying. 48:45 They found me over there and I got a phone call, “we‟re here”, and they took me and Rita Briggs out to eat and everything and the next day they went back home. Interviewer: “They never got a chance to see you play?” No, my dad never got to see me play because when I got hurt in Peoria Johnny wouldn‟t let me play. He said, “you still have that cracking noise in that elbow and I don‟t like that”, and one of the girls said, “let her play, let her play, her mother and father are here”, and he said, “No, I don‟t like that cracking noise”. He used to work my arm and everything and he didn‟t like that cracking noise. I said, “Johnny, it don‟t hurt and the doctor said I‟m fine”, but he said, “No, you‟re going to have to wait a little while”. That‟s the way he was and he wanted to be sure you were healthy. 49:34 Interviewer: “Where did you get the name “Pinky”?” 10 �Rita Briggs gave me that. We were in Lowell Massachusetts, the season was over and we went to a movie and we were walking down the street looking in the windows. There were some things in there and she said, “I know what I‟m going to call you, I‟m going to call you Pinky”, and I don‟t know where she got it. I said, “Where you getting that Rita?” And she said, “oh, it just came into my head and that‟s the way it was with her. She was a good catcher, oh boy, could that girl catch. She was smart, yeah. Interviewer: “So, you‟re in the second season now, Battle Creek, you signed a contract and you went to Battle Creek and you lived there?” Battle Creek, yes I lived there. Interviewer: “Where were you staying that time?” I was staying with Maggie Russo and Josephine Hasham and we lived in a house with the landlady and we had the upstairs to ourselves. That‟s where we lived and we didn‟t have a car. I didn‟t have a car and neither did Maggie or Josephine. Rita Briggs use to pick us up when it was time to go to the ballpark and that‟s how we went. 50:42 Interviewer: “What was a typical day like? You get up and get dressed, what was the day like?” Mostly every morning we had to practice and in the afternoon we would go home and take it easy and about three o‟clock we had to eat before we went to the ballpark and we had to be there at four o‟clock, get into our uniforms and start working out again to get ready for the game. After the game was over you take a shower and go home, but first you get something to eat. You get something to eat and you go home. Interviewer: “Did you always know which team you were going to be playing?” Yeah, we had a schedule. 11 �Interviewer: “Were there some teams that were a little more difficult to deal with than others?” Yeah, Fort Wayne was always a good team and Kalamazoo always had a good team too. Interviewer: “Your second season you‟re no longer a rookie?” Nope Interviewer: “What position are you playing this time?” Well, I was playing the pitching and I was playing the outfield. I did two positions. Interviewer: “You did both.” Either left field or right field when I wasn‟t pitching and sometimes I did the bull pen and had to come in and relieve sometime. 51:53 Interviewer: “Any particular events happen in the second season that you want to talk about?” Let me see, no not too much. Interviewer: “Just a regular season?” Yeah Interviewer: “So, now it‟s the third season, 1953 right?” They moved us to Muskegon, Michigan and I lived with Maggie and Josephine again in a nice house and we were within walking distance to the ballpark there, so that was nice and we had a little restaurant to stop at to eat at after the game and before going home and that was good too you know. We had it easy there, but Muskegon wasn‟t too good for crowds you know. It was kind of down, so when that season was over me and Marilyn Jones went to Fort Wayne, Indiana, which I was happy about because they were the first place team. My roommate and Josephine went to Rockford. 52:57 12 �Interviewer: “You mentioned, just now, that the crowds in Muskegon were a lot smaller.” Yeah, they were a lot smaller. Interviewer: “Did you have any idea, at that time, what your future as a baseball player was going to be? Did you think you were going to keep playing—you‟re only eighteen or nineteen years old by this time, and did you think you were going to be playing into your twenties or did you already know that something was going wrong that it wasn‟t going to last?” Well, I was hoping it would last a long time, but I wasn‟t quite sure about it and when I went to Fort Wayne, For Wayne always drew good because we had a good ball club there, and I hit two home runs there. The first night I hit one and the next night a “grand slammer”, and that was beautiful, and I had a big grin on my face there. 53:46 Interviewer: “But the last year though, the forth season, were there any indications that things were going wrong?” Well, they were talking about it, yeah, they were talking about it and they said that we may not make it another year, so after our season was over, Bill Allington, he was my manager then and he was a tough man to work for and I‟ll give you an example. I was playing left field and someone yelled my name from out in the stands and I never bothered looking before, but this time for some reason I did and I just turned my head and all of a sudden I said ooh and I heard that bat you know and I said, “I better get this thing or I‟m dead”. I had to make a shoestring catch out of it, came up with it, threw it in and guess who‟s waiting for me when we got the third man out? He was waiting for me and 13 �he gave me hell you know and he said, “don‟t you do that again”. I didn‟t boy, I‟ll tall you I didn‟t. 54:44 Interviewer: “The final season is the fourth season and you said there was talk amongst the players that something might be going on?” There were rumors that it was going to come to an end and Bill when it came to the end—well, we were in the playoffs and we were in first place and we played against Kalamazoo in the playoffs, but Kalamazoo beat us out. They kind of whipped me because I use to beat Kalamazoo all the time, but this night they whipped me. I finally got them out in this particular inning and Bill comes waiting for me and said, “What‟s the matter with you? Didn‟t you get your rest today?” I said, “yes sir, I did”, and he said, “What‟s the matter with you?” I said, “they‟re hitting bullets off of me. I don‟t know, they just got me today”, and he said, “Can you catch?” I said, “no sir and I‟m not going behind there”, and he said, “you‟re all done for the night, you go sit on the bench”. He was a good manager though, he was tough, but he was good. 55:49 Interviewer: “That final season, you said you hit two home runs right?” Yeah, yeah Interviewer: “How did that happen and what was the first one?” The first one? I don‟t know, the ball was right down the gut and I just grabbed it and I hit it, but it was a line shot and I didn‟t think it made it over the fence and I stopped at second and the Umpire motioned for me to keep on going and a big smile came on me again and I want all the way around. The next night was a sweet one and I knew that baby was gone because they were high and long and I ran those bases so nice and that was a beauty. 14 �Interviewer: “Anybody on base?” Yeah, the bases were loaded, yeah; the second one had the bases loaded. Bill said, “gee, you got a little power”. When I was home and played with the boys, I use to hit a lot of home runs, but this was a different story, there was more pressure you know. 56:47 Interviewer: “You‟re playing on several different teams, and how difficult was it to transfer? You go from one team and now did you have a whole bunch of new girls or did they come with you? Was it more difficult working in a new team?” No, not really because you kind of get acquainted with everybody playing the teams anyway. Whenever we had to change teams Maggie and Josephine were always with me and we were roommates, so we just went along with it you know and a lot of the other players we already knew too, so it was not difficult. Interviewer: “During that period of time, you said that you wanted to continue playing baseball, but did you actually think that this was what you were going to do for most of your career or did you think you had to go to school or get a job? Were you thinking about your future?” 57:48 Well, Fort Wayne, when we got done with the season, Bill decided that for one month we go around and play against the men‟s teams, so we did and he picked a bunch of us players to go around, and we did it for a month, and we did good, we beat a lot of the guys, we beat them out. The last game we played it was my turn to pitch and what we would do—me and my catcher would go sit with the guys and their catcher and pitcher would go sit with the girls, and that „s how we did it. We were playing good and I was beating my own girls and the seventh inning I started getting tired after playing the whole season and this tour. I was getting tired, so he comes running out to me and he said, 15 �“What‟s the matter?” I said, “I‟m just getting a little bit tired, we played a whole season you know. These two gals are pretty hard to get, but give me a chance and I‟ll try to get them”, and I did, I got them. 58:53 I got them in a fly out you know and the next one I had no problem with, and we get to the ninth inning and the girls had us by one run, I think. We got some hits and we won the ball game and a guy came running to me and he said it was the first game he won all season and he said, “Will you play for me next year?” I said, “no I‟m going to play with the girls, I‟m sorry, but I would rather play with my girls”, but of course we didn‟t have any more team. After the winter was over, February my father died, this is when he died and in April I got a phone cal from Jeanne Geissinger and she said, “Bill wants to know if you‟ll go around and play the girls against the guys?” 59:52 They did that, I think, for four years, and I said, “I don‟t know if I can, I just lost my father and I have to take care of my mom”, and I said, “let me think about this and I‟ll call you tomorrow”, and she said, “ok”, and she was staying at Ma Kelly‟s, everybody calls this lady Ma Kelly, and I said, I‟ll call you tomorrow afternoon”, so I sat down that day thinking and thinking what I could do and I said, “no, I can‟t, I can‟t do this, I have to say home”, so I called her up and I said, “I can‟t go, as much as I want to, I cant‟ I got to take care of my mom”, so that was the end. 00:32 Interviewer: “Did you get a chance to play ball again after that?” Yes, I coached CYL softball. The priest called me up and he said, “We‟re going to start a CYL softball team and would you please coach?” I said, “I didn‟t think I would be a very good coach, I don‟t like to lose”, and he said, “Well, give it a try, will you please?” I said, “ok, I‟ll give it a try”, so I had these little kids you know and I had to make up to them and I had to control myself to help them and everything else. We did 16 �pretty good except I was the only girl coach and there were all men coaches on these other teams and they didn‟t want sliding in CYL you know, they didn‟t want the sliding. The girls learned it in school, so we were playing this game and one of my girls slid into third base and the coach on the other team, he started raving, “there‟s no sliding in CYL”. 1:40 I said, “I don‟t teach her to slide. I know we can‟t do it, but they learn it from high school and it just came automatically”, so he started saying—I said, “you‟re being nasty because I‟m a woman”, and he turned around and walked away. The Umpire said, “It‟s ok, the girl learned it from school, from high school and she didn‟t do it on purpose”, so anyway, we won the ball game and the guy apologized to me later. Interviewer: “Good, good, now the priest you said, asked you and did he know you played professional baseball?” Yes Interviewer: “Ok, sure, sure. What was the reaction when you got back from a season? What was the reaction of your friends and neighbors?” Well, I get off the bus from getting the train and then getting the bus to get home and I got my bags and everybody‟s saying, “up, she‟s home, Pinky‟s home”. 2:42 Interviewer: „So, everyone else picked up on Pinky too? So, what was just amongst the girls—?” Yeah, once it started it caught on. Interviewer: “My gosh, oh my gosh. The end of the league and you said you became a coach afterwards; did you talk about your experiences? Did people know that you were a baseball player ten years later, twenty years later? Did you spend a lot of time talking about the fact that you played baseball?” 17 �The people at home knew because every spring I was gone to play ball and they would ask me questions and this and that, and I would give them the answers you know. Interviewer: “Some of the girls we talked to literally said after they stopped playing they never talked about it and their kids didn‟t even know that they played baseball.” My father would talk and he would say that his daughter was a professional ball player and this and that. He was proud, but I‟m so sorry he didn‟t get to see me play. 3:42 Interviewer: “When did you, let me put it this way, did you ever think at the time that you were doing something extraordinary? People are telling you now that you guys did this amazing thing, did you think of it way back then?” No I didn‟t, I just went out because I loved the damn game you know. We played with our hearts, we played hard and we were tired sometime, but we played with our hearts and we went to win. Sometimes you lose naturally, you aren‟t always going to win, but we had fun, we didn‟t make much money, but we had fun. It was not like these big leaguers you know. I think that money is killing the game I think so. I think they love the money more than the game. 4:36. Interviewer: “When did you first hear about the movie, A League of Their Own?” Oh, they let us know about it. They let us know about it, yeah. Interviewer: “What was your reaction?” I was happy, yes, I was happy and everybody gets to see it you know. Interviewer: “So, you went to a premiere of it? Did you see it in a movie or you just went to a movie theater and saw it?” It was on television and everything you know. 18 �Interviewer: “You never saw it in a theater?” No, no Interviewer: “Oh my gosh.” No, when it came on television I saw it you know. Interviewer: “What was your reaction to the movie?” Well, I didn‟t like the clubhouse thing you know because that wasn‟t true. The men weren‟t in the clubhouse and Jimmy Foxx was never like that. He was a great man and a gentleman all the way and that‟s the only thing I didn‟t like. Everything else was good you know. 5:33 Interviewer: “What I heard from everyone else, and I felt this myself, it kind of captured the spirit. It had some things they call Hollywood and what not, but overall it was pretty accurate in terms of the spirit of it.” Yeah, there‟s some of this make believe stuff, but when I heard that Madonna was going to be in it I was she was going to kill it on us you know because you know how she is. She‟s going to kill it, but Rosie O‟Donnell kept her in check and she‟s the only one who knew how to play ball, Rosie, did you know that? Yeah, I got to know Rosie a little bit when she wasn‟t too wild after while before she---you know a little bit. Interviewer: “Did things change for you personally after the movie came out? I mean, would people react to you different?” Yeah, they want to touch you and everything. They like to touch you and they want to talk to you and all that. 6:30 I like to talk to little kids and I like to help them. Interviewer: “What—some of the girls I talked to said that in many ways the movie kind of brought back the glamour and the fun of the game and a lot of them and not 19 �really forgotten that period, but they had not talked about it. Did the move have that effect on you too, that other people somehow treated you differently?” Yes they did, we were professionals, and they want to talk to you and ask you questions and everything, oh yeah, and it was nice. It was nice to have people talk to you like that you know. It made you feel good. Interviewer: “Looking back on it now, what do you think that period of your life was like for you. I know you did other thing and a lot of you have gone on to do amazing things, so this was just one small part; it was four years of your life. Where does that fit in terms of your life as you look back on it?” 7:35 I think it was the best years of my life; I really do, outside of having my daughter and everything you know. Those were my best years; I loved it so much, and we had so much fun. It was great and we made a lot of nice friends too. The fans were wonderful and in Fort Wayne I use to have kids come to me all the time and it I had bullpen work for relief, they would come down and sit on the bench with me, these little kids. If I had a chance to give them a ball I would give them a ball or maybe if we would crack a bat and the bat isn‟t too bad, I would say, “put a little screw in here and it will be good and you can still use it you know. They would say, “oh boy Pinky that‟s good”, and I like to make kids happy. 8:28 Interviewer: “I know at the time you are playing you‟re not thinking about these sorts of things, but now, where do you think the league, in terms of the big picture of baseball and America, where do you guys fit into all of this?” Well, I wish we were up there a little bit more. I think the men took everything away from us a little bit. It‟s only fight that the fans went back because those guys went to 20 �fight for our country. That‟s only right and that‟s how come we went down, but I wish we could have stayed up, but it just didn‟t go that way and that‟s the way it went you know. Ted Williams was my favorite player and I use to go watch him play all the time. I wish I could have been like him though. 9:23 Interviewer: “You‟ve had a chance now, especially at reunions and you go to events and what not, what kind of a message do you want for the young people that come to you, what do you want to tell them about your experience as a ball player?” Well, I tell them that I had a good life and I loved it very much, played my heart out, and met a lot of beautiful, wonderful people and what more can you want you know, that‟s it. These lovely little kids come up to you loving you, that makes me feel good. Interviewer: “When did you first start coming to the reunions?” This was my first one. Interviewer: “After all you just said about how wonderful this is and this is your first reunion?” 10:21 You know, I had a few injuries. I injured my legs a few times and sometimes I had money problems and I couldn‟t afford it, so my daughter, she paid for all this. Interviewer: “So this had got to be one of the great moments, huh? There are a lot of amazing women out there.” Joyce Westerman, you are going to have her tomorrow, and of course me and her were buddies and I roomed with her. We lived the first year, with me and Maggie, and we haven‟t seen each other in a long time and boy, we were hugging like crazy the first night and we were crying and hugging and everything else and the girls said, “they‟re crying”, and were taking pictures like crazy of us. 21 �Interviewer: “Well, let‟s hope you get a chance to come to other ones.” “We‟ll be going to San Diego Interviewer: Oh good, my mom lives in San Diego, so maybe I‟ll bring her to the next reunion.” Yeah, good, that‟s good Interviewer: “That would be good. That would be really good and I want to thank you very much. This had been a wonderful experience to sit down and talk to you. This was delightful. 11:39 22 �23 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_NLeDuc Title A name given to the resource LeDuc, Noella (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource LeDuc, Noella Description An account of the resource Noella Le Duc was born in Graniteville, Massachusetts in 1933. She grew up playing baseball with the boys, and when she was sixteen, a friend of her mother's introduced her to one of the AAGPBL players, Rita Briggs, who arranged a tryout for her in 1951. She played in the AAGPBL from 1951 through 1954, first with Peoria and later with Muskegon and Fort Wayne. She was primarily an outfielder, but also tried her hand at pitching and catching. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Illinois Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-08-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/09bfceb310740ec285d2344a5db1c441.mp4 ea7763eda055bac48f57255be435a3ae https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/315c78284e19ae475939877e4d48866d.pdf 6efeea2dda9b6e29af4b584648dd7ab8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Cheng Yuan Lee Date of Interview: 03-20-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: What was your background before AVG? CHENG YUAN LEE: When I was seventeen years old, I was a second year in University. I always wanted to become an airman or a pilot, so I joined the Chinese Air Force. The Chinese Air Force sent me to the Communications School and I become radio technician, graduated 1936. The second year, 1937, five of us Chinese Air Force Officers, one Captain, three First Lieutenants and I'm Second Lieutenant, we received our orders to meet a very important person. We went to Shanghai, that's the first time we met General Chennault and since then five of us worked with him almost until end of the war. Today, Colonel Shu, he is interpreter, he is in the States and here in Taiwan, I'm the only one. The other three they sacrificed for the country. FRANK BORING: You studied as a Communications Officer, if you could explain in more detail what you learned during that period of time. Once again, before you met Chennault. CHENG YUAN LEE: Actually after I graduated from the communications school, I had only a few months of experience with the Chinese Air Force. To tell you the truth I don't even quite know exactly what kind of equipment we had in the Air Force, but when General Chennault came, we set up the advisory office. He was our advisor then. Then �he began to talk to all of us and he told us that his being in China was trying to help the Chinese Air Force to build up the combat capability. Then he told me he said "Henry, the most important thing for the Air Force today is to have a sound air defense system." At that time really true I don't even know what air defense system is. Then he said - he gave me an idea. Once we see the group of communication officers and men to help, we beginning to look what kind of equipment we have in the Air Force and what kind of equipment the whole country had. Tell the truth, those days we have very little equipment. We had very few radio stations and then we had very good crank telephone. Now some of the city and village equipped with telephone, quite few. A few of the village - maybe one village have only one crank telephone, so he gave us an idea. He said if we wanted to defend our Air Force the very first thing we have to have good information, accurate information. Then we could decide to tell our fighters, our pilots how to defend the invading enemy. So after about one week, we searched all over the places in the whole country and we got a little idea of what we had. Then General Chennault and a few of us started trying to sketch out what actually he wants. Then we come up first air defense net and those days we called it "The Spider's Web" with a radio station as the center and with all the villages and towns around it - was a circle about 150 kilometers. Some maybe 70 kilometers to the center, some maybe 150. Exactly looked like a spider's web. When the people in the village and the city, see the aircraft or heard the sound of the aircraft, they used the crank telephone and called in to the radio station to report. If they see the aircraft they would say "Heavy Aircraft", in those days they don't know whether it's a fighter, a bomber or what, but if they see a bigger aircraft they say "heavy aircraft" and they see a single engine one they say "lighter aircraft" then they tell us how many, about how high and that's what we get at the beginning. And lots of times when the aircraft above the clouds, they just say "I hear aircraft noise but that's all." Then when we collect all this information, the radio station would broadcast - it was open broadcast so the other net would hear and that's the way we passed �the air alert system. Then the second system we worked on had a very large net and we put up a flag pole. On the flag pole we usually had the first flag is heavy or light aircraft, the second flag would indicate the number of aircraft, and the third was the altitude of all the aircraft. When the first initial information came, we set that pole on the city on the map then every five minutes an arrow on the map. It indicated the aircraft goes direction. Then on the map two arrows, the gap of two arrows it tells you how fast the aircraft are. If the two arrows are very close we know that's slow aircraft and if the gap is very wide, we know that's a fast aircraft. That's the second part of the defense net. Then third is when we decide to have the fighters take off. At the beginning we draw a circle of 150 kilometers from the center. When the enemy reach 150 kilometers we would have all the aircraft start their engines. Then when the aircraft approach about 100 kilometer to the center, then that's an order to take off. At the same time the city and the town will have air raid ball and those days we called - the Chinese call Jing bow. Then we have three ball to indicate the stage of the raid. When the first ball goes up people know the aircraft is about 150 kilometer from us, when the second ball goes up they hear the aircraft take off and also they know that the enemy is closing in, when three ball comes up, usually the people call red ball - red hot - everybody runs like anything to get away from their home or work or whatever, there's no protection. Now consists of those three parts: the recording system, the plotting system and the Jing bow system, the air raid system, put together that's the prototype of first world air defense system. And this is how we would [?] and for about two weeks we figured out and actually when the war starts it works beautiful. It surprised the Japanese, because the first raid the Japanese had six bombers to bomb Nanking, our airfield at Nanking. Four were shot down right in Nanking out of the six and it sure surprised the Japanese. They thought the Chinese were very weak. They don't think that we have any capability to be able to fight them. But it surprised them the first raid at least four were shot down. Now believe the other two were injured also. So the next Japanese worry is they gonna find out how the Chinese �operate so effectively and this is involved - I got in almost bombed. General Chennault, when he talked to the Chinese Air Force, (General Chu) and a group of high ranking officers, the very first meeting they had everybody know the possibility of Japanese invasion. So they decide to purchase some radio equipment for the aircraft and those days the very first group of communication equipment we received was 60 sets of (Phillip) airborne equipment. Then Colonel Chennault told me, he said "Henry, get as many people as you could and do the fastest job as you can to install all those equipment on the aircraft." And those days we have the Hawk II, Hawk III and Boeing P-12. The most of the Chinese Air Force are Hawk II and Hawk III with very few P-12. Then we had only 60 radio sets, not enough for all the aircraft, so General Chennault told me, he said "Henry, install one radio set in every 3 aircraft." Those days the formation flight for fighters and bombers were all in flights of three, so we would have one radio set in each flight, so that the leader could receive the combat instructions. We worked day and night. A group of us about 125 people, we worked day and night and we completed within one month. We had them all operating very effectively and at the same time General Chennault told me to install a portable transmitter in one of our station wagons. In those days the Chinese Air Force only had two station wagons, so we installed it in one first and then later on we got a second one. Then General Chennault told me, he said "Henry, you got my idea, now you go look for your own site. Where you think is the best site for the transmitter. It's a [?] just find one." So I made a surveillance around Nanking and actually I set up five antenna in five different places. The first antenna I installed on Purple Gold Mountain, which is I think the west side of Nanking, it's been so long now I forgot the location. Then I found two huge rocks, I set up the antenna on the rock. The very first raid, the Japanese - six bombers came in and General Chennault gave me the order through the telephone and I translated into Chinese to tell our fighters how high they should go and which direction they should go and I tell you it really surprised me that first raid. All our fighters got on the bombers and four were shot �down out of six. The Japanese were very surprised. How come the Chinese are so effective? And they want to know how the fighters be able to jump on the bombers as soon as they come into the circle of Nanking. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Lee_CY_1991-03-20_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Cheng Yuan "Henry Lee" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-20 Title A name given to the resource C. Y. "Henry" Lee interview (video and transcript, 1 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of C.Y. "Henry" Lee by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Lee was a Chinese Air Force Communications Officer who worked for Col. Chennault as his personal radioman before the AVG officially formed. Lee eventually joined a group of Chinese flight cadets being instructed by Captain Adair in Kunming, and then traveled to the United States for additional flight training. In this tape, Lee discusses his background before joining the AVG and his work as a Communications Officer for the Chinese Air Force. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8d2b3a52fd3da665f7b3c924d9de2549.mp4 88fc241da28c9a55a7f349252fa01b96 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e73c957abd3d6f827dde0eb08362bbb.pdf 96cdc9897b467d506a469c53931b0c1f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Cheng Yuan Lee Date of Interview: 03-20-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: Where did you learn to speak English? CHENG YUAN LEE: I learned my English in school (break) FRANK BORING: Where did you learn to speak English? CHENG YUAN LEE: I learned English in school and University. During the time I was seventeen years old, I always dreamed and wanted to become in the Air Force, so that year I went into Chinese Air Force and they sent me to the communications school. Although I wanted to be a pilot but they sent me to communications school. After training, the next year I was commissioned as Sub-Lieutenant. FRANK BORING: The reason why I learned English - like that. CHENG YUAN LEE: When I was seventeen years old, I joined the Chinese Air Force. They sent me to the Communications School and English is a part of our class because we had to speak over the radio by English and we also sent message by English and this is a part of our training. FRANK BORING: You've mentioned about Nanking and the spiders net around Nanking. Now this was somewhere around 1937. When Chennault first came there he had to work with whatever was in the Chinese �Air Force at that time, were you around when the Jouett, the American Jouett mission came through, or the Italians, the Russians or any of that? CHENG YUAN LEE: Actually we had five advisors. Now Jouett and all of them in Hong Chow, the flying school. Every now and then they came up to Nanking. For a short period of time, General Chennault and us went to Hong Chow also, but most of our time we were all in Nanking. FRANK BORING: Were you familiar with any of the other missions that came out to work with the Chinese Air Force, the Italians, the Russians, any of those groups? CHENG YUAN LEE: We had met many of them, but to tell you the truth when I was about sixty years old I had meningitis. My memory is pretty poor unless a lot of article I read all the times, otherwise a lot of the people's names and their face I have almost forgotten. FRANK BORING: Well let's stay in Nanking then. After the bombings of Nanking, did you stay in Nanking in '37 - ‘38? If you could continue about the story of Nanking. CHENG YUAN LEE: After the first air raid, the Japanese was very surprised at the Chinese combat capability and especially they were very worried about our defense intelligence system, so they want to know how we got the information of them and how accurate information we use. Then the second raid. After the second raid General Chennault told me, he said "Henry, you cannot go back to that same spot again. The Japanese might come in and get you." It's true. The third time six fighters were coming after me and I think the Japanese spy system must have been very effective - how they spot me on top of the mountain. They come in and strafe me and as I told you, I had the station wagon right in between the two huge rocks, so I just running around that big rock. They did not get me nor my equipment and after that raid General Chennault told me, �he said "Henry, you cannot go back to that place again. They're gonna have dive bomber on you." So the next I went to a different site and then I changed the site all the time. They never got me. And this is the first stage of the Japanese air raid. Pretty soon they coming, not only bomber but fighters and then we were kind of defeated because they had the super fighters. They have better maneuvering, better speed and so gradually, gradually we lost the battle. This convinced General Chennault that he must obtain some better aircraft from the United States. So he went back to States and tried many time. Often times he came back and he said "Well, Henry I bumped into wall." He failed many times. Finally we got the 100 P-40's - so called 100 - actually we be able to put together no more than 50 and those we get from the British Air Force, at Rangoon we put them together. FRANK BORING: Okay we're gonna talk about that in more detail later. Could you tell us about what happened after the Japanese had pretty much eliminated the Chinese Air Force because they had superior planes at that time. Did you have to leave Nanking - is this the period of time called "The Rape of Nanking?" CHENG YUAN LEE: We withdraw from Nanking - I have to think about it because I really have poor memory. FRANK BORING: You're doing very well. There was a period… CHENG YUAN LEE: We already left. (break) CHENG YUAN LEE: Then as time goes on, we beginning lose the battle. Day by day we have suffered more and more heavy losses of our fighters. General Chennault met every flight that comes in after the raid and then we all sit down together to hear their story to learn what their difficulties and we trying to solve all the problems. I believe one tactic that General Chennault invented was two and two formation �and those days, at the beginning we call the scissors tactic. As we have learned from the combat pilots, they told General Chennault that the flight of three when they get into combat, the wing man is always kind of tied up. If one be able to maneuver freely then the other one is kind of have his eye or hands tied up. (break) FRANK BORING: So the pilots are saying this is what happened and it all came out. CHENG YUAN LEE: After every battle, the General would sit down and talk to everyone and this is how the scissors tactics was amended. He then after quite some time of studying and talking to the pilots, he finally come up with a solution, to have the fighters take off two and two, instead of three and also maintain information two and two. In those days we call it the scissors tactics. If the right two is attacked by enemy, the left two would turn around and head on to the enemy. If the left two was attacked by enemy, the right two would turn around head on the enemy. If both are attacked by the enemy, then both turn around and head on to the enemy. It really protected our fighters a lot because those days the Japanese have the superior aircraft and this way it really cut our losses to much lower than they were. Now I believe this two system - the first is a spider web system and the second we call scissors system. Even today, although much improved, but still all over the world use this two system as main part of air defense system. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us about the last days of Nanking, especially how the airplanes were slowly being dwindled - you're losing more and more and how you had to escape? CHENG YUAN LEE: General Chennault was very worried about we losing all our fighters and about 2 to 3 months before we lost Nanking, all our Air Force had moved westward towards Hankow and in those days we have only about half of Air Force left over, so he went back to States. He's trying to help the Chinese Air Force to purchase some new aircraft. But often he comes back and he says "Henry, I'm so �sorry I have bumped into wall." And finally we got the P-40's. At that time I think we have almost lost the big portion of our air strength and in a few months we have almost no capability to defend our cities. Then from Hankow we withdraw to Chunking. Then soon we got the word that we will have the P-40's. Now before the P-40's came to China, we had a few - the prototype of the P-40. You call it the P-36. They are fixed landing gear. The prototype of P-40. Those P-36 came in about one squadron and we had two squadron pilots trained for the P-36 and that time General Chennault told me, he said "Henry, I want you to be a pilot because I like you that you are so patriotic and brave because during air raid everybody run away for air raid and you stay on the job. So I want you to be a pilot." And this is how I get into flying. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear and what was your reaction to the fall of Nanking? CHENG YUAN LEE: Nanking falls after Shanghai fallen. The Japanese move into Nanking. They sure did a mass killing. They often - not only occasional once or twice - they often gave commands to people to dig a hole, a huge hole, and then said to the people, now you all jump in. The people jump in then they have other people come in to fill in with the dirt on the people. They just buried them alive. The Japanese did that many places in Nanking. They sure had hurt the Chinese people. So far of the ones I know, my age, very few people can forget what the Japanese have done to us. They killing our people by thousands and thousands. Some people in Nanking we know have told us that they are the few that survived and they said more than 2/3 of the people in the city either buried, shelled, or wounded. And this is what the Japanese had done to our people in Nanking. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction personally and what did you observe Chennault's reaction to be when you got the news about Shanghai and Nanking? �CHENG YUAN LEE: Really true. Two United States military Generals I respect very much. One is General Chennault and second one is General MacArthur. They really loved the people they helped. They loved the people like their own son and daughter. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Lee_CY_1991-03-20_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Cheng Yuan "Henry Lee" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-20 Title A name given to the resource C. Y. "Henry" Lee interview (video and transcript, 2 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of C.Y. "Henry" Lee by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Lee was a Chinese Air Force Communications Officer who worked for Col. Chennault as his personal radioman before the AVG officially formed. Lee eventually joined a group of Chinese flight cadets being instructed by Captain Adair in Kunming, and then traveled to the United States for additional flight training. In this tape, Lee discusses how he learned to speak English while in communications school and his experiences working with General Chennault in Nanking after the bombings. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/012533c38cb4d8a87fbf4f5ba80dd9a7.mp4 ad2e7cdb5cfe20f72b9bedd89c420480 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a21a6ab540144d8bec5b0e37d13c87f.pdf 2c83ddda902f801135ef40cedd7b08cb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Cheng Yuan Lee Date of Interview: 03-20-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: I'm gonna ask again, your reaction personally and if you observed Chennault's reaction when you heard about what happened in Nanking. CHENG YUAN LEE: General Chennault he's not a very talkative person. Lots of times he's quiet, but you can see that if he feels very sad and sorry, he will sit himself in the room by himself for quite some time and then sometimes even he lost his appetite. Now many times our Air Force was defeated, that's the way he acts and this is how in the beginning we learned how much he loved our people and in turn, I can tell you this, almost every one of the Chinese people - most of them are uneducated and when people mention General Chennault to them, they would say "Ting How" that means Number One. FRANK BORING: There's the rumor that has been talked about by many, many people. We asked the same question of Colonel P.Y. Hsu. (break) FRANK BORING: Just the last part about the Chinese people being uneducated - feel about General Chennault? CHENG YUAN LEE: Most of our people are not quite educated, but they all know General Chennault and if we mention it to them they will say "Ting How." �(break) CHENG YUAN LEE: Most of the Chinese people are not quite well-educated but however, they love General Chennault and if we mention it to them "Chen a De" they will say "Ting How." FRANK BORING: We asked this same question of P.Y. Hsu and I want your own personal experience. Did Claire Chennault ever fight in battle? CHENG YUAN LEE: No. (break) CHENG YUAN LEE: During the period of war while all of us Chinese were with General Chennault, he did some fine, but never he engaged in any combat. This is what I know and I think all five of us would say the same. FRANK BORING: I want to finish up Nanking. When you first heard about the atrocities that happened - the buried alive and you had personal friends there, what was your - internally, inside - what was your personal reaction to that? CHENG YUAN LEE: When first I heard the tragedy in Nanking - because we used to stay in Nanking for quite a while and we are thinking of our friends there and I tell you, it really hurts me. Before the war, I never hate anyone. But after I heard - and actually I saw the pictures, the movie and the pictures - it really hurts me. When I saw the pictures I had tears in my eyes because we were in Nanking almost two years - a little over two years. And then later on when I get married, my wife and I stayed in Nanking another year and we heard very often the native people told us how they suffered through, how they lost their dearest ones and some of the spots we actually walked over there and went over there and paid our respects to the dead ones. �FRANK BORING: After you left Nanking, where did you go and could you describe what you were doing at that time? CHENG YUAN LEE: Since our defense system been so effective, so General Chennault he never want me to go away from my job. To tell you the truth, for almost 2-1/2 years I hadn't had one day off from my work and he knew that and he had it written in his book the way of a fighter. I'm the one that always stay on job and this is how he wants me to be a pilot and this is how I get my wings in the United States. FRANK BORING: Now when you left Nanking, where did you go? CHENG YUAN LEE: Nanking - then we went to Hankow for about two months, then to Hengyang. Hengyang I stay there about 3 months, then went to Chunking. In those days our transportation was very bad, very poor and we almost have very little air transportation. So all the traveling I had to done by truck. That's probably the most effective transportation we had those days and that takes a long time. FRANK BORING: Can you describe that, the road and the traveling and all that? CHENG YUAN LEE: The transportation on China mainland we had very little railway transportation. From Hankow to Hengyang I drove by railway. Then from Hengyang to Chunking, we drove by truck and with a lot of equipment, four of us. It took us a month and a half to get to Chunking and I tell you, all the road is muddy road, with rock and it really - you cannot believe how we went through those holes and ditches. Now five of truck that we started from Hengyang and one we lost because the driver did not control the wheel enough, that he just went down the slope and this is the way almost the whole way to Chunking. We lost a lot of transportation and those days we are really poor and really suffer. Many days we just get cup of Mantou - what we call - it's like your bread. You bake them and we steam them. We just get a few Mantou and that's all on the way and we didn't have a single meal of a whole day. That was really tough and hardship and to tell you really truth, when I get to �Chunking, I have lice on me because of no bathing. This is how the Chinese people suffer during World War II - the beginning part. FRANK BORING: Once you got to Chunking, what were your responsibilities and what did you have to do? CHENG YUAN LEE: After I get to Chunking General Chennault was assigned to our cadet school, the flying cadet school in Kunming and as soon as he gets to Kunming he think of us. He says "I have P.Y. Hsu with me now, I must get Henry over." So about one week afterwards, General Cho, our Commanding Chief, told me, he said "Henry, you go to Kunming and Colonel Chennault wants you." So I went to Kunming and I was assigned in a communication truck again. I got a real good decent communication truck. That's the first time I had one - proper communication truck. The rest of time what I had was a station wagon and was all portable equipment. FRANK BORING: At this time, what were your responsibilities, what was the purpose of your being there with Chennault? CHENG YUAN LEE: The Kunming school was training the flying cadets. General Chennault was there as Chief Advisor to train the flying cadets and I'm just part of the training, the communication training. And after I get in Kunming for about less than half year, I get my flying jacket and I went into flying school. That's what he want me. Then I went to States. FRANK BORING: During this period of time there was an attempt by Chennault to train new Chinese pilots to fight against the Japanese. What are your impressions of the effectiveness of this training? Were people graduating? What was your opinion? CHENG YUAN LEE: Before I left Kunming for flying training, or before I went to Kunming, I was in [?] for about 4 months. Then as I mentioned it to you that we had maintained about one squadron of P-36. General Chennault had two squadrons, Chinese flying squadron �there and he was training the P-36 and I went to [?] to help them, the communication training for about 2 months. Then he went to Kunming and soon I went to Kunming. FRANK BORING: While you were at the training period, was that the same time Skip Adair was there? CHENG YUAN LEE: Adair, yes. He was our flying instructor. We went to flying school in Kunming and our primary training was in Yunnanyi, it's about 90 miles west of Kunming and we had five American advisors, we call them. We had about 30 Chinese pilot instructors and also have about five American instructors and Mr. Adair was one of them. Now I have poor memory, I don't quite remember all of them. But Mr. Adair, after I got back from States, I met him again and this is how he give me a picture. We were getting along very good and they been very good to me. FRANK BORING: While you were there was that also the period of time when they had the International Squadron, when they formed the International Squadron? CHENG YUAN LEE: No, the International Squadron they formed just before the AVG, but I already left China and went to United States for flying training. I know, but I never met them. FRANK BORING: While you were there in training, were the Japanese bombing at that time? CHENG YUAN LEE: I can tell you this now. I was in Yunnanyi for nearly half year. I only had about 15 hours of flying - that tells you how bad the Japanese raided us. They just continuously - a whole day often time - we get a tin basin bowl for wash and after we wash we went to the kitchen and we about half full bowl of rice. Then we set off and go to the suburb and we just sit there and watch the raid for a whole day, eating nothing but the rice. Now this is the way it was �during the period of time when I was in the school. Now that time we almost had no air capability to fight the Japanese. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Lee_CY_1991-03-20_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Cheng Yuan "Henry Lee" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-20 Title A name given to the resource C. Y. "Henry" Lee interview (video and transcript, 3 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of C.Y. "Henry" Lee by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Lee was a Chinese Air Force Communications Officer who worked for Col. Chennault as his personal radioman before the AVG officially formed. Lee eventually joined a group of Chinese flight cadets being instructed by Captain Adair in Kunming, and then traveled to the United States for additional flight training. In this tape, Lee describes his personal reaction to the tragedy in Nanking and his experience working with General Chennault at the training school in Kunming. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1489cddad5e0be87b2ed9e107a139d53.mp4 a2a255377e0f2263565f1f9a7f7df68a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3dea0f62fec6d6887d66bc82103c96ca.pdf 5148610256e9eceed6e744c5ecff81d7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Cheng Yuan Lee Date of Interview: 03-20-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] CHENG YUAN LEE: Now after I get back from States, I was for a very few months, about 3 months assigned to the Fourth Fighter Group, which is a station in Chunking, at first in Chentu and later on move into Chunking. During that period of time the Japanese sure bomb us very heavily. Often time they continuous bombing for 4 or 5 hours and the people just have to go away for a whole day because nobody knows when the Japanese will come in again. That was my very experience. I was in Chunking City and the air raid sound everybody called Jing bow - so we all went into the dugout, the hole - a big hole inside the mountain and I think in that dugout at least 4 to 5 thousand people were there. To tell you the truth, after the raid is over, which lasts almost about one hour, very few were surviving. I was one of them and I saw with my very own eyes and I had to crawl out of all the dead ones - over the bodies to get out. I was inside. Now lots of people - because when it gets more air they like to stay outside or nearby the dugout - instead of me, I go inside the dugout and the ones who by the entrance almost every one of them were killed. There's no way to running around because the Japanese continuous 4 or 5 hours in Chunking and Chentu. They had destroyed quite a lot of the buildings and city and all over the place. But even the airfield they bomb up. But I can tell you this, within half a day, mostly we work at night - we fill up the holes by dirt and rock and we use stone roller - 2 or 3 hundred people to pull the roller and roll over the dirt and the runway repaired again. The next day our aircraft take off again. That was �something that you should see, otherwise you don't believe it. How many people we use to pull those rollers, the stone rollers. The picture I show you even during the air raid, the Japanese were diving at us, how people were pushing the aircraft out of the parking line in order to save the aircraft and those were the pictures I took during the air raid. This is the hardship - the hard time we went through. FRANK BORING: We know why the AVG was eventually formed, but what we'd like from you is, from a Chinese perspective, you were the Chinese Air Force, you saw what was happening, you saw the bombing, you saw the fact that you couldn't even train that many cadets because it was constantly bombing the airfields and everything else, but if you could explain from your perspective the reasons for the formation of the AVG? CHENG YUAN LEE: General Chennault went to States trying to get aircraft for the Chinese Air Force but I think many times he just comes back with his head down and told us that he bump into wall. Finally, I believe either Dr. Soong or Dr. Kung got help from President Roosevelt's advisor - forgive me, I forgot his name. With his help that they be able to purchase 100 P-40's from the British Air Force. Actually those aircraft were being used by the British and probably the British was going to - send away or some way - but anyway they got the 100 P-40 and those days the Japanese were bomb us so often and continuously, we cannot help the aircraft to build up in any places in China. So this is how it gets into Rangoon with the British help. Then we had first I suppose one of our fighter group, the Third Fighter Group, pilot and mechanics went over there to put the aircraft together and have the Chinese pilots fly into China. Then the same time General Chennault had the AVG came and they went into Rangoon and they took over the aircraft from the Chinese pilots. I believe a lot of the AVG pilots they are from all over the service. Some from Army, some from Navy, some from Marines. (break) �FRANK BORING: We should talk about when you were in the States and letters you were getting from - anything you can recall about that? But at this time also, before he went to form the AVG, Madame Chiang Kaishek was brought in to evaluate the Chinese Air Force and then she eventually recommended with Chennault to form the AVG. Do you anything about that particular? CHENG YUAN LEE: I know about it but I was away in States then and when General Chennault trying to recruit the AVG, later on I learned - lots of them from all the services, Army, Navy, Marine and Air Force many of them they were in service. They request to retire from the service and join General Chennault. FRANK BORING: Let me interrupt you - while you were in the States in training, you said Chennault was writing you letters? Was he talking to you about the frustration of the problems he was having with forming the AVG? What kind of things did he say in his letters? CHENG YUAN LEE: He had mentioned several times to me that… (break) FRANK BORING: Who's he? CHENG YUAN LEE: General Chennault had mentioned several times after he came back from States trying to get aircraft. He get almost resist from all over the place and because he was true friends to President Chiang Kaishek and Madame Chiang Kai-shek, often a lot of American high official misunderstanding by him and this is how he fails almost every time until he actually got the 100 P-40. FRANK BORING: What was Madame Chiang Kai-shek's role at this time? CHENG YUAN LEE: To speak of the Chinese Air Force, at the beginning was formed in Nanking, President Chiang Kai-shek was the Chief of Aeronautical �Affairs Commission. Madame Chiang, she was a Secretary of the Commission and Colonel [?] he was full Colonel and he was Director of the Commission. Then we don't have Air Force headquarters. We call Aeronautical Affairs Commission. FRANK BORING: What was the role of this Commission? CHENG YUAN LEE: Well actually this was a small scale Air Force, that's all, but at the beginning President Chiang Kai-shek and Madame were so concerned about the Air Force and so often they came in and sat down to hold meetings and so forth. And this how General Chennault was selected. I believe it was by either the Madame or Dr. Soong. Then he came over and helped us. He is a true friend of China. Later on, I had the opportunity to be with President Chiang Kai-shek and also become aide to President Chiang Ching Kou and very often I heard from them too that during the time we need the most, he came in and helped us and that's true, that's very true. FRANK BORING: Once the - Madame Chiang Kai-shek as part of the Commission, went around to the various air bases to look at the Chinese Air Force. When did you become aware that they were going to bring in American pilots to join the Chinese Air Force? CHENG YUAN LEE: Before General Chennault came, the Chinese Air Force, we already had a few flying advisors at the flying cadet school and before I was assigned to him, [?] then I know nothing about the Americans until the first day I met Colonel Chennault. Then us five were so close to him, he almost every day told us the progressing and what's the next future plans and so forth. So since then, I know pretty well about General Chennault's activities. FRANK BORING: You heard about and did you have an opinion about the International Squadron that came before AVG? CHENG YUAN LEE: No, I had already gone to States. �FRANK BORING: But do you have an opinion about it - have you heard about it? CHENG YUAN LEE: I heard about it but I was in United States for flying training so I couldn't tell you much about it. FRANK BORING: If you could describe your relationship with Chennault - just in the early days especially. CHENG YUAN LEE: Well not only our two Presidents, President Chiang Kai-shek and Chiang Ching-kuo and Madame, Dr. Kung and Dr. Soong so appreciative of Colonel Chennault's help. The whole country I can tell you on the mainland those days, I should say about 1/3 of the people are illiterate. But if you tell him [?] they will tell you: Number One - Ding How. It's true. He treated the Chinese people like his own brothers and sisters and even the cooks, the drivers, were like his own family. Honest and true he is one of our true friends. FRANK BORING: What about your personal relationship with Chennault? CHENG YUAN LEE: Tell you the truth, I know lots about the Colonel's activities, but whatever he wants me to do, I do it for him. Human is human. You may do something, other people don't like it. I may do something, you don't like it. He is too. But whatever he do and he want me to help him, I do it for him because truly I love him from my own heart. He is so true to the Chinese people and this the only thing I could say. FRANK BORING: When you returned from the States in training and Chennault had now returned from the States to form the AVG, when did you then meet up with him again? CHENG YUAN LEE: I returned - I graduated in Thunderbird Air Force Base in United States, Phoenix, Arizona in May 1942. Then I was alone assigned to Army Air Force. Then you don't have an air force. I was assigned to Army Air Force in many different squadrons. In those �days they sent me to a different squadron almost every 2 to 3 months and finally I joined up with the Ferry Command and we flew B-24 from Miami Beach to Africa. Then someone told me that we are going to stay in Africa to fight the Germans and I said to myself, if I have to fight the Germans, I rather go back and fight the Japanese. Because then I already begin the hate to the Japanese, so I request from Africa to go back to Chunking. Then I get to see him and this is first time that the President Chiang Kaishek had me into his home alone, the first time, after I get back from Africa. FRANK BORING: This is 1942 or… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Lee_CY_1991-03-20_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Cheng Yuan "Henry Lee" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-20 Title A name given to the resource C. Y. "Henry" Lee interview (video and transcript, 4 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of C.Y. "Henry" Lee by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Lee was a Chinese Air Force Communications Officer who worked for Col. Chennault as his personal radioman before the AVG officially formed. Lee eventually joined a group of Chinese flight cadets being instructed by Captain Adair in Kunming, and then traveled to the United States for additional flight training. In this tape, Lee explains the reasons for the formation of the American Volunteer Group and his perspective while serving in the Chinese Air Force. He also describes his relationship with General Chennault in the early days of the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bcb8603220dd9ae201318bbca16ef18f.mp4 04e4ee933a46a633cd32e91c323b12c4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5b26bbfac0c2ebfd43ba882821637878.pdf 759f8cf99c30f7f0aaef7ea4c769e892 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Cheng Yuan Lee Date of Interview: 03-20-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: You got to know Chiang Kai-shek very well? CHENG YUAN LEE: He was impressed by a group of high military officers on the mainland just before we fall. FRANK BORING: What I need is your perspective. I see that Chiang Kai-shek had a very big task at this time - we're talking AVG period - we're talking 1941 -42. CHENG YUAN LEE: Japanese what they did on the mainland, especially in Manchuria it raised the patriotism of the people. (break) CHENG YUAN LEE: When President Chiang Kai-shek started from Canton with his military cadets to push northward. At that time he had only two provinces (break) CHENG YUAN LEE: The wrong thing. They could have solved the Chinese by one by one, but what they did they invaded Manchuria, they invaded Shanghai and later on in Chinan. All the activities cost the Chinese people - especially the younger one - at the age that time like me. Give up civilian life and university and join the Air Force because the Japanese made us really furious and hate. Then on China mainland we have many warlords. Each one occupy a province, a �province is like your states. President Chiang Kai-shek at that time he probably could only command two provinces. They started from Canton and push northward. Everything was fine and smooth until he got into Shandong [?], the Japanese trying to stop him and that was the first tragedy that occurred. Instead of the warlords drifting away from the President Chiang Kai-shek, they turned around and told him that we will follow you. Then before the nationalists get into Peking - in those days we called it Peking - the Japanese invade Manchuria and they bombed the Commanding General, (Marshall Chong), they killed him. (Marshall Chong's) eldest son (Marshall Chong) [?], he was a very young, able general. He wasn't in Manchuria. At that time he was on the mainland. When he learned about that he went back to Manchuria. In one night the whole Manchuria had the flag of nationalists - he turn over. Later on he told the people, the Japanese killed his father so he joined President Chiang Kai-shek and when the Japanese invaded Shanghai, the whole country, all the warlords, they said yes, we'll be with you and this is how the Word War II begins. FRANK BORING: What about the Communists? CHENG YUAN LEE: Yeah including the Communists. Then… (break) FRANK BORING: Why don't you talk about the Communists? CHENG YUAN LEE: [?] was a Communist. At that time the Nationalists already had a very long war with the Communists. As a matter of fact, the Communists were driven away from Chiang Shi? province and the so-called 2,000 miles marching towards Yunnan where is now northwest of China and that time the Japanese invaded Shanghai Communist - Mao Tse-tung say yes, we'll join you, President Chiang Kai-shek and this is how the whole country was unified. Actually it was helped by the Japanese. �FRANK BORING: You had mentioned earlier about the Doolittle raid. Can you tell us anything about that? CHENG YUAN LEE: General Doolittle had an aircraft - I forgot the name - the B-25 took off from the carrier and raided in Japan and too bad that the weather turned out bad. Then General Chennault told me - because at that time I was in [?] to set up a radio homer station. Then General Chennault told me, he said "Henry, a very important mission - get your radio station on and for sure that it works." So I had the radio station on almost 12 hours and the B-25 follow our homer so quite a few of them laying there on the beach of the China coast. I'm sorry they lost quite a few, but the ones that landed on China beach was following my homer. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned also in another conversation about how pilots that got shot down over enemy territory would be rescued by villagers and you had a couple of humorous stories about that. CHENG YUAN LEE: Many stories could tell you how the Chinese people loved the American pilots. During then many American pilots were shot down in Japanese occupied territory. Many of them parachuted and they landed. The native people, the local people would do every possible way to help them to get out of occupied territory. For instance, one case, a pilot was shot down and the village people got him into the village. They know soon the Japanese would come in to search for the pilot and if ever they found the pilot, not only they gonna kill the pilot, but they gonna kill the whole family or even wipe out the whole village. So the village people, they get together and those days us Chinese people use wood and hay for cooking and heating, so every family has a little house to store the dry wood and that time the farmers they get a brilliant idea. They got pilot into the wood house, have him lay on the ground and sleep on the ground and they piled the wood all around him so the Japanese comes in, they don't find anything. They never even dreamed that under the wood was a pilot. Daytime he sleeps under the wood, at night time they let him come out and stretch his legs. Now another �case, the Chinese people's wedding, they're old fashioned. They would send the bride from one village to other village by sedan chair. A few of you perhaps have seen the sedan chair - it's all covered by - a chair covered by beautiful embroidery things - but however, in the line of the wedding, usually they have a monk, a parson, to make pray for good luck and so forth, so in the line in the front usually maybe a few monk, or as many as 10 or 20. Well it is true the Chinese people are so smart they made a pilot - a bailed out pilot into a monk. They shave all his hair and they rub dirt on his face so he look like more close to Chinese people and they put a monk robe on him and he join the crowd and become one of the monk and then walk through to the - we called - the neutralized zone and the people would turn him over to the guerilla and the guerilla would take him back to the rear where he based. Now often, like that, not only one. Your four star general, General (Dess [?]), he came over to Taiwan to visit us and he met his old friend and magistrate of our city that helped him and they two become real good friends. Many, many, stories like this, you should hear from them. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us any stories that you thought of whether they were humorous stories or touching stories about Chennault? What were some of your personal recollections of Chennault? Not ones that you think are embarrassing, but often people have said to me, including my father who knew Chennault of course in CAT days, that you never could say no to the old man. If he requested something you had to do it. CHENG YUAN LEE: Let me tell you this now. Both President Chiang Kai-shek and President Chiang Ching-kuo for 100% I should say they are Dictators. No one could say no. No one could even hesitate of what he said. General Chennault was so close to them and worked with them for so long, to my own opinion honest and true. At the beginning when he came, he was more American. About 2 or 3 years later he is more like the President. When he tell you to do this, you do it. For a Chinese - because a lot of us are illiterate and �if he don't have the authority or the power, lot of time you find the people would do any different crazy things and this is how the authority is more power than anything else. Now a lot of you people being Democrat, you don't understand. And this is one of the reasons General Stillwell didn't like President Chiang Kai-shek, they like enemy. FRANK BORING: Do you mind talking about General Stillwell and Chennault and Chiang Kai-shek? CHENG YUAN LEE: Well I prefer not. Later on General Chennault involved in that [?]. FRANK BORING: In your opinion, coming from your heart, in terms of Chinese history, in terms of your own personal life, what do you think the significance of the AVG? CHENG YUAN LEE: Those days the Chinese people really suffered from the war. Especially from the Japanese air attacks. For almost about a whole year the CAF just cannot put up any resistance and the people's morale was deteriorating and then General Chennault formed the AVG and then came the victory. The people saw with their own eyes the Japanese aircraft was shot down. I can tell you this, during those days, the Chinese people were so excited, so happy, they almost do every crazy thing to celebrate when they saw a Japanese aircraft shot down. So in turn, when they see an American wears a leather jacket with two flags in the back and so they don't know who is American and who is a what - but as soon as they saw the jacket, they put up their thumb, Ting How - that's the only thing they could express. And I tell you this is true from the bottom of their hearts. Now this, the activity of the AVG not only bring up or boost the morale of the people, but they too boost the morale of all the troops. Now when the Chinese troops in the front, when they saw the Shark Fin, in those days the Chinese people call "The Tiger" because very few Chinese people have ever seen a shark before, so when they saw the shark's teeth, they say "here is a tiger" and this is how the AVG was so respected and so loved by �the Chinese people. They have truly boosted the morale of the whole nation and this is how I respect all of them. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Lee_CY_1991-03-20_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Cheng Yuan "Henry Lee" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-20 Title A name given to the resource C. Y. "Henry" Lee interview (video and transcript, 5 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of C.Y. "Henry" Lee by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Lee was a Chinese Air Force Communications Officer who worked for Col. Chennault as his personal radioman before the AVG officially formed. Lee eventually joined a group of Chinese flight cadets being instructed by Captain Adair in Kunming, and then traveled to the United States for additional flight training. In this tape, Lee discusses the events and conditions in China that lead to World War II, his personal recollections of General Chennault, and the significance of the AVG in Chinese history. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a4f81441fa7c7fb2c5621416d005245.mp4 442d884f1551e108b384ad43b2875ca4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff012053b30b82e3200b6aa3f163b05c.pdf 7ebbdd561b51de57d6dc9be6fdaafaf8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Cheng Yuan Lee Date of Interview: 03-20-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FRANK BORING: Looking back on that time when you were a young man and you were with Chennault and you were witnessing the bombings and you were seeing the atrocities and the horrible things that were going on within your country, what is your own personal evaluation of that time? CHENG YUAN LEE: Tell you the truth in the early part of the war I was young. I joined the Air Force at 17 years old and I know very little. Also I had already went into university, but I know very little. General Chennault I should say is the first one that actually got me into the knowledge of air power. For the first about 2 or 3 months, he wanted to get acquainted with the Chinese Air Force facilities and airfields and so forth. He would choose one of us five to go out to visit the various places with him. Most of the time Colonel Shu, he went with him because he was interpreter, but sometimes General Chennault wanted to fly. Then the Chinese Air Force we don't have multi-seat aircraft. The biggest aircraft we had was a Douglas two seats bi-plane, open cockpit. So he had to get me because I'm a radio operator also. He sits in the front flying, I'm in the back because I had to send the message back and that's how he choose me. Then he told me, he said "Henry, when I take off, when I give you the signal, you'll be flying straight and level." He got me interested in flying, although I wanted to be a pilot, but I never knew anything about flying before. Then it convinced him that I could be a pilot because I kept it straight and level good. Often �time he landed and he said "Henry, good boy." He is the one that actually educated me many things, not only the air force, in many things and this is the reason why I respect him so much. For a while I almost think that he is my father. He taught me many things and if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be a pilot. FRANK BORING: Looking back at that period of time now as a man who has accomplished many things in his life, that period of time when you were very young, 17 years old, 18 years old, what do you think of those times now? CHENG YUAN LEE: Later on because I had the opportunity of knowing a lot of high people, I even get close to President Chiang Kai-shek and be an Aide to President Chiang Ching Kou. I should say compares nowadays, those days I was a baby, I should say. I don't know anything, but now I know. And also I've been - I get myself in trouble often time. Not because of my mistakes, because of politics. Now United States has helped China a great deal, but a lot of things you people just don't know of the Chinese people. For instance, the Chinese people, during then I should say, half of the people are not well educated and many of them don't even know how to read and write. Their mind is simple. Their feeling is always straight. Although they started thinking but those thoughts would only go straight. China does need a man like a President Chiang Kai-shek. He is a man to tell the person "now, you do this, nothing else, but do this." Why? Because such a low educated people, if you don't put your thumbs on him, he go wild. He don't know even himself what he's gonna do. So a lot of Americans think that the President is a Dictator. He is treating the people not with a kind heart. No, it's not. He is very kind to the people, but when he want the people to do this, you do it, you finish it, you do as I told you. Because that's the only way to get a lot of the people to complete a thing. The Americans don't understand. The Americans, like when you are in your country, if someone comes to you like this, you'd get furious. You say what is a human right? But when you treat people like the early days on the mainland, the �farmers. What can you do? You do the work for him, do the work with him or you tell the person, you say "Now one, you do this, two you do that, and three, you do this." or you get nothing. FRANK BORING: Why do you think Chennault, an American, was so effective working with the Chinese people? CHENG YUAN LEE: Now, he came to China. Colonel Chennault he came to China. At the beginning, he don't understand also. Often time he talk to Colonel Hsu and I and the other three. He said "Why, the people like that?" We explain to him, we said don't misunderstand. He is not offend you. We explain to him the education, the background, the customs and the way we do things. Honest and true finds us like - an example, when I tell you, you're across the street, when I tell you to come I want to talk to you. I use my hand and do like this. Now when you want me to go across the street, you do your hands like this. Now only by hand gesture, two move are different to the Chinese. If you do to the Chinese, do like this. That means you look down at them. He is offended, he don't think you are a friend. We do like this to you, you don't feel kind of good. Often time you see people like this. Now we brought up a different custom, a different way for 1000 years. We just don't understand each other. Now this is the reason we explained to Colonel Chennault. He learned. Not only he learned, he asked questions. He asked a lot of questions, soon he become one of us. When the President told him something, he don't feel offended. He is happy to do that because he knows the President wasn't a Dictator. But to your people, many, many of your people, even with the President for quite a while, still think that he is different. So understand, to me, after I been with Americans for so long and I been traveling in 27 countries, understand is the first thing you learn. And it's a very hard problem. Don't think that that I understand what you say, that's nothing. You must understand like what I mentioned it, the background, the customs and the way we doing things, then you really understand. Don't try to say "Oh I understand what you said" that's nothing. General Chennault understood us and this is the �reason why he became so friendly to us and why the Chinese people love him. (break) CHENG YUAN LEE: Like another custom in India. If you go along a road - I saw many G.I.'s in India. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Lee_CY_1991-03-20_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Cheng Yuan "Henry Lee" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-20 Title A name given to the resource C. Y. "Henry" Lee interview (video and transcript, 6 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of C.Y. "Henry" Lee by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Lee was a Chinese Air Force Communications Officer who worked for Col. Chennault as his personal radioman before the AVG officially formed. Lee eventually joined a group of Chinese flight cadets being instructed by Captain Adair in Kunming, and then traveled to the United States for additional flight training. In this tape, Lee discusses his time working with General Chennault and the AVG as a young man and why Chennault was so effective working with the Chinese people. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dbce5627b97bdeea527a23b61c800314.mp4 ee62f951c781c14f9cbafcbd013385b5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c43e30bef5d9158220c8eaa9fdaedcb0.pdf 6d023a5aab1703047d534627c26d6727 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Earl Lee (00:44:41) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • Earl was born in New York, near Canada in 1925, so he grew up during the depression His dad was a mill-worker and they were very poor Earl was the oldest of four children It was hard for him to find work after graduating from high school He got a job working on train tracks for a while, but did not like it and decided to join the Navy (1:45) The Navy • • • • • Earl enlisted in July of 1943 and felt that the war was affecting every town in the United States at that point Roosevelt was able to get everyone to be patriotic; not like the public is today He liked the water and did not enjoy marching so he chose the Navy The enlisted men were taken from Albany to Samson, New York for training They only trained for six weeks because they were all in such a hurry (4:00) Training • • • • • Earl trained at Radar School, where they had German prisoners maintaining the grounds It was at a hotel with really good food They learned to operate recovery radar and surface radar They were then sent to Florida in a Navy base in the middle of a ship building area They ship was finished being built in the spring of 1944 (7:00) The Trip Overseas • • • • • • • Many people were sick while they traveled with a convoy to London They also did some training on the East coast Earl sometimes worked as a watchman on the ship at night Once some drunk men tried to take his gun away, and he accidently shot the ship next to them Altogether Earl made three trips across the north Atlantic and they were all very rough He sometimes thought the ship would fall apart during bad storms He traveled to London, Belfast, Glasgow �• They only spent about two weeks on shore every time they landed (15:25) Steering Problems • • • • • The ship was having problems and it had to go ahead of the convoy They were almost hit by a sub, but they finally made it to Belfast They sometimes mistook whales for subs Some whales slammed against the side of the ship; it was very scary and they thought that they were being attacked About five ships would travel together at once with destroyer escorts (21:00) On Shore • • • The men could alternate with others and leave for a couple of hours at a time Many of them just got drunk or went sight seeing The local girls went crazy when they saw them; there were lots of beautiful girls in Belfast (23:00) B-12 School • • • • • Earl was selected as 1 of 1,000 men on the ship to go to B-12 School Many others who attended the school had not even been out to sea They were treated badly by the townspeople because they were in school while their family members were out at war Earl purposely got himself kicked out of the program He was sent to Texas and then to Cuba (25:00) Cuba • • • • • • • • They fueled up in Cuba and went through the canal Earl did some training on the ship with First Class Chiefs They trained extensively and then headed for Japan to open up the beaches for the invasion Earl stated “and then President Truman, God bless him, dropped the atomic bombs.” They were in the middle of the ocean when the bombs were dropped They had to go ashore to make sure the Japanese public knew that the war was over The Japanese citizens were very friendly There were tons of ships in the Sea of Japan (29:00) The Philippines • Earl was ready to go home when he had arrived here, but he was asked to go to China and he declined �• He was discharged in the middle of January in 1946 (30:00) His Career after the Service • • • Earl worked in a Post Office, and then got married He worked on a farm in New York, and then a restaurant, and even an ice cream factory He eventually ended up in management for IBM for 30 years (34:00) The Japanese Shore • • • There were really flimsy and cheap houses and a very dirty environment They had expected the Japanese to be more belligerent Earl fought more elements in the North Atlantic than he ever did people (36:35) His Life after the Navy • • • • The service affected him dramatically and enlightened him in so many ways He learned himself how to compete His mom was right for not letting him drop out of high school when they were very poor He really liked the Navy, but there was great class distinction (40:40) San Diego • • He was called to go meet an officer regarding church services; the officer wanted him to help set them up Earl told him he could not do that because all the other men would make fun of him; the officer did not like his answer � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeeE Title A name given to the resource Lee, Earl (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Earl Description An account of the resource Earl Lee joined the Navy in 1943 and trained for only six weeks before shipping out to London. Earl made three trips across the Atlantic while he was in the service, also traveling to Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, and Japan. He said that he had more problems aboard the ship then he did fighting the enemies. He had been surprised when they went ashore in Japan becuase he had thought the people there would be more hostile towards Americans. Earl said that overall he had a very positive experience in the Navy and it dramatically affected his life in a positive way. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1043f52070ed37ac8bac18cd220118f4.mp4 6e7059bca0d8d74002d523126a1cf6b1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/893fcf1209c0b025f564d14424a27a0c.pdf 0365c1249217452a61707b2dbb1bb731 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Lyn Lee (00:48:22) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • • Lyn was born in Detroit, Michigan on September 7, 1953 His mother worked as a server and also did some embroidery work His father Harry was a mason and worked at Great Lakes Steel for 38 years Lyn went to Myra Jones Elementary School He liked to swim and play basketball They took their senior trip to the Bahamas Throughout high school, Lyn worked part time at an Italian café (11:00) Graduation • • • • Lyn quit the café right after he graduated He lived with his parents for a while and they were very strict He was still only 17 and could not yet get a job in a factory Many of his friends were working in factories or left to go to college at Michigan State University (12:40) Enlistment in the Navy • • • • • • • • • • Lyn joined the Navy with the “Buddy System,” so that he and his friend would only have to enlist for 3 years instead of 4 When he joined the Navy, the Viet Nam War was still in process He had boot camp in Orlando, Florida for 13 weeks The experience was very shocking and scary and he barely got any sleep while he was there They found out that his “buddy” could not swim and they were separated because his friend had to take many extra swimming classes to catch up with the others They got up every day at 5 am and had inspection at 6 am; then they ate breakfast and attended their classes They learned about the rules and regulations of the Navy Lyn had training in weapons and combat, running, hiking The men spent most of the time in classes They learned how to make a floating device out of every part of their uniform (21:40) The USS Super Tanker A0106 • • The ship hauled fuel and oil for service craft The seas were very rough and they spent about 20 days out at sea per trip and many people got sick �• • • • • • It took them 26 days to get to their base in Viet Nam On their way there they had to constantly refuel other ships They had first stopped in Hawaii to reload fuel They ship could hold 60 million gallons of fuel He traveled on the ship with about 350 men, followed by two escorts Their base was located in the South China Sea while working on Operation Clean Sweep (31:05) Time Spent on Leave • • • • • • Lyn traveled to Singapore and Hong Kong and everyone there treated the Americans with respect They stayed near their base for 9 months until the war was nearly over Lyn went back to the US in December of 1974 for one month before he was called back to the base near Viet Nam His highest rank in the Navy was E-3, but he was brought back down to E-2 for being AWOL He had been hung over and missed his ship to leave His punishment was 14 days restriction on the ship in the brig and the demotion (39:00) Life After the Service • • • • • • Lyn went back to Detroit and attended college for 6 months He then went to work at a Chrysler factor for three and a half years The economy was not that great and he was eventually laid off Lyn left for California and found a job working for the National Ship Building Company, working on super tankers for about 4 years He then went to Seattle to look for a new job, but could not find anything Lyn went back to California to work for 6 more years and then moved back to Michigan (43:45) Back in Detroit • • • • Lyn started working in construction as a stone mason He then started working for an excavating company, but eventually hurt his back so bad that he could no longer work He now lives in a veterans home in Grand Rapids Lyn believes that time spent in the service in good in providing discipline and helping young people to mature � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeeL Title A name given to the resource Lee, Lyn (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Lyn Description An account of the resource Lyn Lee served in the US Navy from 1972 to 1974. He was a crewman on the USS Navasota (A0-106), a large tanker. His ship served in the South China Sea, and supported ships cruising off the coast of Vietnam in the later stages of the war there. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans African-American soldiers United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/efc8fba0e6d7b736fd5a888e294b1d46.pdf 1cc0325667af03435784a4a99e16efbd PDF Text Text Young   L ords   In  Lincoln  Park   Interviewee:  Bob  Lee  (Robert  E.  Lee)   Interviewers:  Jose  Jimenez   Location:  Grand  Valley  State  University  Special  Collections   Date:  2/16/2017   Runtime:  01:49:38       Biography  and  Description               Bob  Lee  or  Robert  E.  Lee  like  the  confederate  general  is  from  Houston,  Texas  where  he  did  his  oral   history  interview.  He  grew  up  in  the  “forest”  near  Jasper,  TX.  His  family  worked  on  a  cotton   plantation.  One  of  his  brothers  Franco  became  a  county  commissioner  of  the  5th  Ward  of  Houston   for  over  30  years.  In  1969  Bob  Lee  became  a  Deputy  Field  Marshall  for  the  Illinois  Chapter  of  the   Black  Panther  Party.  His  worked  included  Uptown  where  he  started  working  with  the  Young   Patriots  Organization.  This  was  a  Southern  White  group  who  sported  the  confederate  flag  but   worked  against  racism.  Bob  Lee  was  trying  to  bring  them  closer  to  the  Panthers.   The  Young  Lords  had  begun  working  with  the  Illinois  Black  Panthers  in  mid  -­‐February,  the  day  after   they  had  entered  the  second  floor  and  briefly  “occupied”  the  18th  Police  District  Workshop  Meeting   to  protest  repression.  It  received  media  coverage  and  Chairman  Fred  Hampton  came  to  the  next  day   to  the  street  corner  of  Dayton  and  Armitage  to  meet  with  the  Young  Lords  leader,  Jose  (Cha-­‐Cha)   Jimenez.  Fred  and  Cha-­‐Cha  were  arrested  twice  that  same  month  and  charged  with  mob  action   along  with  Obed  Lopez  and  his  Latin  American  Defense  Organization  which  was  picketing  the   Wicker  Park  Welfare  Office.  They  were  attempting  to  form  a  welfare  union  with  both  caseworkers   and  recipients.   �On  April  5,  1969  Fred  Hampton  asked  Cha  -­‐  Cha  to  join  with  William  (Preacherman)  Fesperman  and   the  Young  Patriots  in  a  Rainbow  Coalition  of  the  three  groups.  Though  the  original  founding  was   informal,  between  the  Black  Panthers,  Young  Patriots  and  Young  Lords,  there  were  several  press   conferences  held  in  Chicago  and  in  other  cities  later.  The  coalition  was  more  mass  and  symbolic   with  the  goal  of  being  more  inclusive  and  bringing  more  groups  into  the  coalition  such  as:  I  Wor   Keum,  the  Red  Guard,  the  Brown  Berets,  AIM  and  SDS.   �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: There it is. Okay. ROBERT LEE: You know who I would like to meet before? Miss Katz, Marilyn Katz, yeah, I would like just to say hello to her. JJ: Yeah. RL: Yeah, Marilyn Katz. HY THURMAN: JJ: Yeah? I got her number. Are we recording? RAY: Yeah. That already (inaudible). JJ: Yeah, at least to me. FAIZA: Only from the back? HT: Hey, man. How you doing? R: Yeah, there you go. That’s good. JJ: (inaudible) RL: Okay. Well, y’all want me to do, to tell? JJ: No, I’m just going to ask a few questions, whatever. R: I’m not asking nothing. JJ: You’re not asking no questions? I’m going to ask some questions because this is an oral history about your life. So, tell me where you were born. Start with your name and where you were born. RL: Okay. My birth name? JJ: Yeah. 1 �RL: My dad named me Robert E. Lee, Jr., III, okay? And that’s like naming [00:01:00] a Jewish kid Adolf Hitler in Germany. And I didn’t know. You know, I’m six, seven years old. I didn’t know about Hitler or the Holocaust, things like that. So, you know how when you go to school, you’re in the first grade, it’s your first day, and everybody stand up and introduce themselves? So, we go on down the line. Little girl says, “My name is Judy Johnson.” And they go, “What’s your name, little boy?” “My name is Harold Jones.” Get to my name, this lady’s name was Mrs. Walker, the teacher. When they got to me, you know, I’m Robert E. Lee III after my grandfather and my daddy, so I assumed [00:02:00] that that was a great name, you know? I assumed it. So, Cha Cha, when I stood up and said, “My name is Robert E. Lee., Jr., III,” the teacher looked at me. I knew then that I had done something wrong. She had no smile, so she said, “Robert E. Lee, Jr., III, after class, I just want to speak to you for a minute.” I said, “Yes, ma’am.” So, she went around the circle, and by the end of first day, she sent all the kids out kinda early. So, at that time, our internet was an encyclopedia. It wasn’t what we do now. So, I’m a little boy, little ol’ bitty thing, and we sat beside the bookshelf. She pulled that L bookshelf up, Cha Cha, [00:03:00] pulled the L up in the encyclopedia, pulled that page out, and she thumbed through till she found Lee. Now, at first, I didn’t see Lee. I saw that horse, you know, a traveler. You know, my background is ponies clubs and ranches and rodeos. JJ: What do you mean, ranches? RL: Yeah, that’s my thing. JJ: Oh, you do that? 2 �RL: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve organized rodeos in East Texas, (inaudible) rodeos, racer rodeos. So, when she started telling me all the history, but they never really, in that encyclopedia, mentioned the Holocaust. Yeah, we found that out later when Adolf Eichmann was arrested. So, I went home pissed, okay? [00:04:00] They did talk about Hitler, what he did, the war, millions of people being killed. So, dad came home, and I’m waiting on him, man. Because I finally got him. (inaudible) got it, because when you’re that young, you was a hassle for your daddy (inaudible) go about. So, I told dad. Dad said, “Okay, Junior. Okay,” he said, “but wait until I die.” I said, “That’s a deal.” So, he chose my name for me, which is Robert Alwalee. That means to be a friend, the organizer of people’s affairs. And the positive side of this, being named [00:05:00] Robert E. Lee, one night I’ll ride -- I’m thinking I’m in my community now. One night, me and a girlfriend and I and are riding down Cavalcade, and this is the positive side of that name, and I saw it clearly. In Houston, being a Southern city, you didn’t have to have a high school diploma, a college degree to be a cop in the South. So, I got a pocketful of weed, and back then, you could go to prison for one joint, you know, forever. So, I’m speeding, and a light come on, and I knew this was it. And the law, I told the girl that was driving, I said, “Take the car home.” [00:06:00] So, when the cop got out the car, walked towards me, he said, “Boy, gimme your driver’s license.” So, I handed him my driver’s license. He looked at my name. He said, “God damn, boy. This is a damn good Southern name, boy. Boy, slow this car down now,” and he gave me my driver’s license back. That’s when I saw the positive side, you know, because I aiming to get jobs. I might apply for a dishwasher job, 3 �and I’ll get a call the next day that I was hired. And that’s how I pretty much got it, man. When I came to Chicago, I came there as a VISTA volunteer. When I came to Chicago, I came as a VISTA. JJ: From where did you come? [00:07:00] RL: When? JJ: Yeah, from where did you come and when? RL: Oh, here? JJ: To Chicago. RL: Oh, okay. I had a scholarship, a track scholarship. I ran track at Southern University after high school, and I got tired of running because the movement was really drawing me then. Rap Brown used to come on the campus in Baton Rouge to talk us as athletes, the role that we could play in the movement, because Ali and them were stepping out there. Jim Brown was stepping out there. So, I walked on the track field, and part of mine was doing recruiting for VISTA, so I figured everything out, but I went out to Oakland to visit my relatives out there. Then [00:08:00] I got a job working at the recreation center for the handicapped. See, that’s my strength, wheelchair basketball, archery for the blind, baseball for the blind. I could coach those things. Then, all of a sudden, about six months after being there, I got this notice that I was accepted into VISTA by Jane Addams Training Center. And I had to think about that, but when I was – flew out, and I was living in Training Jane Addams, and I lived in [ICMY?]. JJ: Oh, at the [ICMY?], Actually, that’s where we were at when we were a gang, the Young Lords. 4 �RL: Let me get to that. JJ: Okay, let’s get to that. RL: Let me get to that. That’s when I was first (inaudible), [00:09:00] not physically or personally, but where I worked for Methodist Youth Services as a VISTA. I lived there as a VISTA. That’s where I would first hear the word, “Young Lord.” Matter of fact, that was the first time I would meet any so-called gang in Chicago is first the Lords. And see, me, I’m thinking when you say Latino in South, the Lords was a Rainbow Coalition just by itself. And so, what happened, my mother was talking to Bobby Seale’s -- oh, yeah, come on, babe. Sit down. JJ: Yeah, we’re just having a conversation. RL: Yeah, my mother was talking with Bobby Seale’s [00:10:00] mother. See, Bobby Seale is my second cousin. JJ: Oh, Bobby Seale is your second cousin? RL: Uh-huh. See, Bobby was born in Jasper. That’s his home, Jasper, Texas. So, when my mother got talking with Mrs. Seale, she asked me to go see about Bobby, you know, because apparently there’s some information, which I did. And that’s where I would meet Fred and Rush, and see, you guys was already evolving. And then later, what happened, as you know, Mike Gray and them was -- I’ll put it this way. When I joined the party, my name Robert E. Lee [00:11:00] changed to Bobby Lee, you know? JJ: Yeah, at that time, I knew you by that. I knew that story. RL: Our press got Luis Cuza. We had our first conference, Captains, Patriots, Lords, as the [picture that?] (inaudible). Luis Cuza was there that day. 5 �JJ: Luis Cuza was there, yeah. But that was more like in April at that time, around April, because I think we met Fred in February. And then I remember we went to jail a couple times at the Lincoln Park welfare office. And then later on, that’s when everybody got together with the Rainbow Coalition, in April. RL: That’s right. The next morning, my name went from Robert E. Lee, Jr. to Bobby Lee. JJ: Yeah, I remember that, because we were hanging out only in Old Town and all them places. RL: Huh? JJ: We were hanging out in Old Town and on Lincoln Avenue. RL: Yeah, that’s right. That’s as clear -- [00:12:00] JJ: What was that place on Lincoln Avenue? Wasn’t there a -- RL: The [Vieux Carré?]. A place called Vieux Carré. JJ: What’s the name of that? Is it Shiflett? RL: Then they had O’Rourke’s. JJ: O’Rourke’s, but that was in Old Town. But there was one on Lincoln Avenue by Shiflett. RL: I see it. JJ: You see it? RL: I see it. JJ: That’s Shiflett. That’s where we were hanging out. R: Oh, yeah, you mentioned there was a thing underneath it, right? JJ: Right. 6 �R: Or a (inaudible). JJ: No, no, that was on Lincoln Avenue. A lot of the leftists used to go there, and me and you went there a few times. We just met his son the other day. That’s why I mention it. RL: I figure I had to really learn fast about the Young Lord history. That’s when you gave me the history of that great revolutionary. Who’s -- JJ: Albizu Campos. RL: Yes. I remember clearly you was talking to me about it. Later on, [00:13:00] Piri Thomas, Down These Mean Streets, it had just come out, and you had suggested that I read that book. But Campos really impressed me. You either brought the book to me, or I brought the book to you. I don’t remember. JJ: You probably were. You were handing out books to everybody. RL: Yeah. That was the key. JJ: You might’ve gave it to me. RL: Yeah, see, we found our resources. We found every one of our resources by getting out there. The resources ain’t gonna on the door. You gotta go out there. And that’s pretty much the history of it, man, for that name. But I tell people a lot that, well, How to Organize Your Own. There’s a quote in there from [00:14:00] one of the young artists and writers stating that Robert E. Lee came back as a ghost. I’ll never forget that quote that this young man (inaudible). And I think that How to Organize Your Own, it could stand by a Saul Alinsky book, Rules for Radicals. JJ: So, you were using a lot of Saul Alinsky. I remember talking at that time. 7 �RL: Yeah. See, Saul, where he saw our Rainbow Coalition, I mean, our, (laughs) that’s what he failed to do. He wished he could’ve done it. He tried to organize a coalition with the Irish poor from the back of the yard, and he failed. He was able to do Woodlawn, but he couldn’t bring in Woodlawn in connection with the Irish [00:15:00] community because at that time, they’re racist. At that time, many was racist. Yeah, 90 percent, 95 percent of the Chicago police were, and so he always felt bad that he organized [back of y’all?]. JJ: So, what did you feel was the mission of the Rainbow Coalition? RL: The first mission is identify the working-class poor. That’s the first mission. The second mission that Fred and all of us, we discussed with folks in the coalition, what we have in common as a people. [00:16:00] For example, I tell Hy Thurman, I mention to Hy a lot, that the only difference between Black Appalachians and the white Appalachians is just that; one digging coal and the other digging coal together. But see, to this day, I tell my wife a lot when we talk about it, I’d never seen that kind of poverty, man, that we saw at Uptown. I (inaudible) fast to see that the West Side would be considered a middle-class community compared to what was happening in Uptown. [00:17:00] And what I couldn’t understand, the brutality of -- at that time, I couldn’t understand the brutality of whites on whites. I had never seen it in the South. You never see white people screaming at white people, not here in the South. I’ve never seen that. Well, we knew that the Rainbow Coalition had touched a vein in America. That’s why people now are really trying to find us. That’s why people is really trying to find us, Cha Cha. And talking today and yesterday, and brother Hy 8 �agreeing, I think we should have a conference, [00:18:00] a Rainbow Coalition conference, but not to have it in Chicago; have it on the campus of Ole Miss. I just gave Professor [McCann?] some contacts, well, contacts he had given me, but we should have a conference that’s on campuses that attracts that young student today. So, that’s what we were chatting about. He called Tracy and gave Tracy the idea because that whole racist thing here in the last -- what’s the guy’s name? HT: (inaudible) RL: All the politicians, [00:19:00] right-wing politicians who wanted to announce their campaign started to (inaudible) they’ll always kick it off (inaudible). So, we should have a conference, you know, this year, next year, very well organized. We know how to do that. But to attract students from, not just students, but you want that core of young students, white, Black, Hispanic, Latino, to attend it, have the books, films, and start a third party because that’s what we want, man. I didn’t realize that till later, but that was David and them’s fear, a third party. We had it, because after the Rainbow Coalition [00:20:00] in Chicago, Cha Cha Jiménez run for Alderman, and that was a seed when you ran. And that seed now has grown. In a sense, we owe -- I’ll do it this way, the regular Rainbow Coalition, then we talk about the first time the coalition was tested, Cha Cha Jiménez, Bobby Rush (inaudible) he ran for that. Then, Harold Washington, that’s where it was successful. Then, Rush, US Congressman. Then, a man named Barack Obama. You can’t be in Chicago, man, for 15 years and not [00:21:00] have seen (inaudible) Fred Hampton, period. Can’t do it. So, it’s 9 �already, what we are doing now is already evolving to a third party. My man was Sanders, Bernie Sanders, in the beginning. He talked more like me. And you remember when Bernie, when they took the camp, that they had that strike on campus? Was it University of Chicago, they had that strike? Bernie led that strike against the administration. JJ: University of Chicago? RL: Yeah. Bernie and they locked the doors and everything. Nobody could get in, and so that was Bernie Sanders. Fred and I went down there, but we couldn’t get in. [00:22:00] They wouldn’t let us in. Come on. Oh, yeah, come on, man. So, we, in a sense, we’re already a third. I cited the third party. After the Rainbow Coalition, the next seed became you, for growth for a movement. Then, Harold Washington, and I’m just being redundant, Harold Washington. JJ: But I think when I ran, it was more a mass group. I mean, it was the Rainbow Coalition, but we were not like an organization. We were like a mass movement. RL: Right. JJ: So, did you see the Rainbow Coalition like that? RL: That’s exactly right, because see, now what we’re talking about is disorganizing and reorganizing. [00:23:00] Hy Thurman, [the chip?], that one like [move of?] a body, and others of course. Our power base here in Houston is based on the Rainbow Coalition. See, Precinct One, we’re a minority Precinct One, and it’s 900,000 people in Precinct One. Most folks think Precinct One is all Black. It’s not. We’re a minority. 10 �JJ: Same with my campaign, we had to do that. That’s why we had to (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). RL: Yeah, man. That’s right. But see, what I was able to do, in the South, it really was hard for a lot of Black Southerners to work with many of the, well, Southerner period, because media had made the Southern accent a negative sound, [00:24:00] you know, like media has done to -- the show, The Beverly Hillbillies. That’s a stereotype. We’re at that point now that our children have a different attitude about life and people. But Precinct One, what I did, I went into the precinct where the white working class was, and my brother Franco said, “Yeah, you go.” But I took that hell, and they were right. The Black politicians ignored our Southern white brothers, but my thing, that it’s all about the working class in this country. I’m a Socialist. [00:25:00] I’m not a Democrat. I vote like a Panther. I’ll always be a Panther, like you’ll always be a Lord. Hy definitely going to be the white Panther. All Lords stay the same. JJ: So, what was your role in the Black Panther Party, your title and your function? RL: Huh? JJ: In the Black Panther Party in Chicago, what was your title and your function? What did you do? RL: Deputy field marshal. The night that I would meet Hy and all those guys, I was a section leader, but, you know, I never told Fred what I was doing for about two weeks, [00:26:00] because see, the party was just started, and a lot of the brothers had those strong racist tendencies at that time. You know, Dr. King got killed, the bombings, church bombings. Then the media would just blow it up 11 �with those accents, you know, Southern white accent. A lot of Panthers left the party because of that, but many came back also. It’s all the education process. So, you include people. You don’t slam the door on people. Let ’em talk about why they don’t wanna work with a white Southerner. Let ’em talk about why they don’t wanna work with a Puerto Rican. Let ’em blow it out. That’s what you do; allow them to express themselves. And it could take a week [00:27:00] (inaudible), but I think a mass conference would work well because we have all this new technology. We have all the books there. But the Ole Miss could be assembled today because this is where all people get lynched, burned, and bombed over wanting to go to college. JJ: I think that’s a good idea. We need to connect what’s going on Puerto Rico with it. RL: Yeah, well, see, I’m finna ride with that one. I’m with the people that shot at -what was the president’s name then? Who was that group of Puerto Ricans? JJ: Oh, Rafael Cancel Miranda and Lolita [00:28:00] Lebrón. RL: Yeah. I was very impressed with that. JJ: Oh, at that Blair? They shot up the Blair House. RL: Yeah. I don’t support the theory of any colony, not at all, but that’s got to be an issue. It’s got to be an issue. That’s why I was saying the college campuses. It’s time for -- we know why they killed Campos. We know why it’s a form of slavery, the colonies are. And that’s real key. We can’t ignore Puerto Rico because if we’re all warriors, then we all go fight in Puerto Rico also. 12 �JJ: And it’s an issue that’s going on today, I mean, with the Fiscal [00:29:00] Control Board. For us, it’s a big issue. It’s a major issue today. RL: I’ve been keeping up with it for years. JJ: Same thing we -- yeah. So, it’s a good idea. I think we need to work on that. I think it’s a good idea, and I think Ole Miss is good. It has to do with racism. We were fighting racism, so it has to do with that. RL: Mm-hmm. See, it’s perfect historically for world shame, but in particular here, we’re such a young nation, we can(’t) disorganize and reorganize. We’re such a young nation compared to England, France, Sweden. Historically, the Young Patriots already have a root also, and now you have the growth that’s going on in Ireland. We’d be amazed of the support [00:30:00] that the Young Patriots would be given by fine people that lived in Ireland. And also, they realized also because the Irish was just -- well, they’re around here, as you know. They joined, many of them -- and I’ve told people this. Many of the brothers joined it for that meal. They had been around (inaudible) months come across that water, weeks, weeks, weeks. And when they arrived, anyone who had a plate of food, if it was Washington, D.C. had a plate of food, clean clothes, or if it was the Confederacy who had a place, they didn’t have no slaves, right? [00:31:00] Then you got the Asian brother. He’s definitely a part of that coalition because when we looked at what he was oppressed, today you got a young youth that are in the movements, young. You got young Asians, young Chinese, Japanese, that once they’re educated, they will [form?] folks just from the point of view that they were 13 �about their rights also. But the real deal is us who’s sitting in here. We’re alive, man. We ain’t dead. JJ: This is the oral history, so I want to ask you, what was your father’s name, mother’s name, and any brothers or sister? RL: Yes, that’s a good one. All right, that’s my mom’s picture. Get that frame, that [00:32:00] big frame over there, Cha Cha. You’ll see my mom. You see, that’s what I look at at night before I go to bed. That’s my family. HT: This one? RL: All right, of my mom. Yeah. That’s my mother. JJ: Yeah. Hold on one second. Thanks, Hy. I appreciate it. RL: Now, she was born in Jasper, Texas, and the plantation that owned my people was the Adams Plantation in Jasper. My people were brought here as slaves in about 1832, before it was a state, and then her name is Selma Adams Lee. [00:33:00] And I’m reading -- JJ: You said Jasper? RL: Jasper, yeah, Jasper, Texas. This is the little town that my cousin -- JJ: Oh, so you’re coming home to Texas when you came here. RL: Huh? JJ: You’re coming home to Texas. RL: Oh, yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, this is home. JJ: And your father was from here too? RL: Hm? JJ: Your father? 14 �RL: Yes. He was from the town way in the Timber Belt called Henderson, Texas, and my father’s -- my ancestors came from a plantation called the Flanagans. No, this is home. JJ: And the Flanagans, that was here too in Texas? RL: Huh? JJ: The Flanagans was here in Texas? RL: Yeah. JJ: What kind of plantation? What kind of vegetables, or was it sugar cane or sugar beets? RL: Huh? JJ: What did they grow on the plantation? RL: Oh, that’s cotton industry. JJ: Cotton industry? Okay. [00:34:00] RL: Yeah. Cotton, sugar cane, that was another, but cotton was definitely the major industry. JJ: Here in Texas? RL: Yes. JJ: Let me know if you get tired, but I think we’re doing good. RL: No, no. I’m not gonna get tired. The Adams family -- I’m sorry, I’m forgetting the names of them. The Flanagan family, very, very wealthy family, even today. JJ: But you grew up here, and what schools did you go to? RL: Yeah. Well, see, I went to school here, but summers, I would spend my time with my relatives. [00:35:00] See, I was the only member of the family that loved 15 �horses, you know, ponies clubs. Now, don’t tell nobody that, okay? (laughter) Ponies clubs, fishing and hunting, you know, I did things like I could fish without a hook, called mud fishing. That’s how deep I go, things like that, hunt. You know, I would go as far as northern Wisconsin to hunt. When I wanted to get a break, when I was in Chicago, when I wanted to get a break from what was happening in Chicago, I would just hit the highway, go straight up north, and I would camp out in the forest, and things like to camp, fish. And I always wore a cowboy hat, even to this day. Ray, pull [00:36:00] them (inaudible) down so Cha Cha can see my grandchildren. R: Okay. Yep. They’re over here? RL: Yeah. Everything is on that -- R: Oh, I see them. Yeah. RL: That’s a (inaudible) get a look at my kids and my wife and everyone, my son. R: These ones here, right? RL: Yeah. All right, yeah, and pull the other one now of her. They’re all there, Ray. R: Okay, hang on. RL: They’re all there. JJ: Point ’em this way. R: Oh, okay. I see them. JJ: Point ’em this way, Ray. R: Oh. Let me just put it on my (inaudible) so you can -- JJ: I can’t -- R: Oh, you can’t see that? 16 �JJ: Yeah. R: Yeah, how about I put ’em here? JJ: Well, yeah. Okay, probably. Okay, I see them better now. R: Okay, hang on. RL: When we would sit and talk about our programs [00:37:00] in Chicago, and two of the major programs that we discussed all the time, as you were doing the same, as Young Patriots was doing the same, how to feed people and free health clinics. My mom, when we -- I’m trying to think. Then we got down to guns. Now, initially, having guns wasn’t a big issue, Cha Cha. That was at the bottom of the list. But Cha Cha, the first raid that we had, the Chicago Police destroyed all our food, all our eggs, bacon. We had everything stored. [00:38:00] JJ: What do you mean, the first raid? You mean there were several? RL: Yeah, we had three raids on our office. The first one, they didn’t think we’d be able to put it back together, so the first one, the image of that raid is in the murder of Fred Hampton, that shootout, that raid. Mike filmed that first one, but the second one and the third, he didn’t have an opportunity to do that one. So, the first one was, it’s kinda embarrassing because when I arrived that morning, when they notified me and everything, I got over there. A little boy about eight years old (inaudible) go, he said, “You niggas ain’t shit.” He said, “Y’all done (inaudible) the white boys to come over here and eat all the cookies, [00:39:00] eat all the ice cream,” because we had storage abilities, “all the orange juice.” He said, “You niggas ain’t shit.” JJ: He was worried about the food, huh? He was worried about the food. 17 �RL: I knew then we had to really get it together now because we were losing our support because Black lives matter; Hispanic lives matter, you know; Patriot lives matter, mattered really then, as it does now, but not like when we came up. So, that’s when discussions of weapons would come in, to defend ourselves. JJ: So, you’re saying that the weapons, the guns were not the priority. RL: No. No, that was not. JJ: The priority was the programs. Is that what you’re saying? RL: Yeah, the programs first. Right. Yeah, man. JJ: I don’t want to put words -- what are you saying? RL: Oh, we couldn’t do that. JJ: Because this is your interview. RL: My quote was -- JJ: I agree with everything you’re saying. RL: I’ll tell the quote. Once they had outvoted me, [00:40:00] then I looked at Fred. I said, “Man, I gotta go home and talk to my momma. I know this shit is finna get serious.” And I drove home, literally, got the car fueled and everything, and drove to Texas. And my brother (inaudible) school, and my mother, of course, was shocked to see me standing there. JJ: So, let me get this straight. So, the focus was in organizing the community through the programs? RL: Yeah, service, service programs. JJ: Service programs? 18 �RL: Yeah. Free health clinic, breakfast program, also legal service. Dennis Connor had that. We wanted that, you know. Those were the things we wanted, groceries for people, because we had made contact with the grocery supply. [00:41:00] I organized what is called a mile square, because you gotta have turf. You’re not overwhelmed. Most organizers will go into a community, but they’ll go in and get overwhelmed by the sight of the environment of the city they’re living in. So, I preferred a mile square. But some people organized four blocks north, four blocks south, four blocks east, or four blocks west, and then they’ll look at the institutions that’s in that community, in those blocks, those little blocks. You really want to find a church because in the weekdays, churches are not using their kitchens, Baptist churches, [00:42:00] that is. They’re not. Or it’s like the Bruce Johnsons here. They’re a good example. They turn their resources seven days a week. So, the Black community, if you have four blocks north, south, east, and west, you want to first look for the churches. That’s first, the ministers, and talk with them. JJ: Bruce Johnson, when he died, when he was killed -- RL: When he was killed. JJ: How did you see that at that time? RL: It’s still paining me today, man. They killed him and his wife, man. All of this that we’re talking about is like yesterday to me, and to you. It’s still painful today, man. He was such a [00:43:00] kind man. No matter what it was, we do know that there is an unsolved murder of a minister and his wife for serving people. That much, I know. And I think about Bruce every day. Only an ex-Panther 19 �would forget about Bruce Johnson and Manny Ramos, Rodolfo. I can’t do it, you know. JJ: Because you know, they were also trying to blame the Young Lords. RL: Yeah. Right. But I knew better than that. JJ: And here we were, the victims. RL: Yeah, I knew better than that. And then the more I started learning of the role of the Red Squad, [00:44:00] they’ll do anything to people who -- the Red Squad was like a little informal CIA, snipers, assassins, because Fred Hampton’s (inaudible), that happens, you know? And so, that’s with me. That’ll always be with me, man. JJ: Now, what about Fred Hampton, Chairman Fred Hampton? After his death and that, what happened to the party in Chicago? RL: Psychologically, it died. That would’ve been like losing you. I’m using the word “psychologically,” but the spirit of the movement died with Fred. [00:45:00] It changed. Huey, in a sense, took over control of that excitement. See what I’m saying? And Huey called all the leadership out to Oakland. [Shay?] was living out there, Yvonne. Bobby went out there. And then the test also of our coalition was when Bobby Seale ran for mayor. And that’s when it hit me about here in Houston. But the leadership, well, our coalition, we all were leaders in that circle. All of us, you, that coalition [00:46:00] was a coalition of warriors. We didn’t kiss nobody’s ass. See, we all respected each other. We never argued over nothing, man. We never argued over a thing, man. That’s changed with Bobby and Fred, because our coalition was a corps. When you see the corps, the photographs of 20 �our press conferences, you know, Fred was there. Rush was there. You were there. Luis Cuza was there. Hy Thurman was there. And so, to get to my mom, after eating the best meal I’d had of my life, when I left, I wasn’t gonna have no greens and cornbread no more. JJ: That was your favorite, greens and cornbread? [00:47:00] RL: Oh, man, yeah. My wife will tell you, I will wear them (inaudible) out, man. JJ: (laughs) RL: And my mother listened to me, because see, my parents was proud that I was in the Panther Party, no resistance, no resistance. And I’m sure all of us had to talk with our parents. All of us, we had an explanation. We had to have an explanation of what we were doing because it was going to change all their lives and ours also. And when I got ready, (inaudible) getting ready to come back because I left the same day, turned around, came back, but my mother said something that still stayed with me, “If you live by the sword, you’ll die by that.” And then [00:48:00] you look at how Huey Newton died. We tend to forget that he wasn’t shot by no policeman. Well, I’ll tell you what. The boys in Oakland have kinda forgotten that he was shot by a dope dealer. Fred was killed. Rodolfo was killed. JJ: By the police. RL: Right, and Ramos was killed. Danny and John Howard, they were killed by policemen. 21 �JJ: But you know, Rudy Lozano in Chicago was a community leader, and he was killed by a drug dealer as well. So, what do you think? Do you think maybe that could’ve been set up through Red Squad or something? [00:49:00] RL: No doubt in my mind, now. None of us ever thought that we were being (inaudible). We thought that shit happened in Russia, (inaudible) because we had a lot of faith, man. We knew what we were doing, but we didn’t think there was actually some men that -- man, you went through hell. You’re a prime example of that, what they did to you, man, you. JJ: I appreciate it. Now, you were talking about your wife. How long have you been married? What’s her name? RL: Let me start on this one. (laughter) With the background I had politically and historically, if a Black woman wanted to go up the ladder, I’m the last nigga that she gonna want to marry ’cause you ain’t gonna go up the ladder marrying [00:50:00] a guy like me. Now, for the relationship, quiet relationship, they liked it, but they knew I wasn’t going up the ladder. I’m not gonna do it. And so, if I had 100 dollars for every time someone would say to me, “Bobby Lee, Bobby Lee, Bobby Lee, I’m just gonna love you till the day I die, but I just can’t live like this,” now that’s pretty much the quote. I would have 100 dollars for that, man. My wife is a Godsend. Here’s a woman -- JJ: What’s her name? RL: I call her Godsend, my wife. God sent my wife to me, and I’ve always stated -- JJ: Is she Puerto Rican? [00:51:00] 22 �RL: You know, (laughter) that’s a good one. Yeah, I think she got a lot of that Puerto Rican in her. JJ: A little Puerto Rican in her? RL: Yeah. JJ: (laughs) RL: But I tell when my wife and I started dating, people would see us out, but my theory then, with all of that shit, you always go to the left when the crowd’s going to the right, and keep it quiet and everything. But I always emphasized that the reason why she’s Godsent, my wife did not come to Houston, Texas to marry a nigga from Fifth Ward. I always said. Now, that’s a word that’s out of [00:52:00] her vocabulary, by the way. Cha Cha, she made some mistakes for her time. Not one mistake, and she never made it again, because you know, her language is Arabic. Her second language is Swahili. Her third language is English, and her education, degree, is in geography. F: No, just English. RL: Huh? F: English. RL: Yeah, but all them other studies, algebra, and I tell my partners, and they said, “Man, well, how you get along with her?” Blah, blah, blah. I said, “You know how I do it all these years? I know when to close my mouth and breathe through my nose.” JJ: (laughs) 23 �RL: (inaudible) because it’s culture, you know, and she’s been [00:53:00] a lifesaver right up to now. And see, you guys, to her, she’s been hearing about you for years. JJ: You been married how long? RL: How long, babe? F: Fifteen years. JJ: Fifteen? RL: Mm-hmm. JJ: Okay, 15 years? RL: Now, for a revolutionary who don’t have no money, and he married someone going up the ladder, that’s a lifetime. Pretty soon, they’ll start saying, “Can we get a loaf a bread?” (laughter) But that’s important that we leave all of our work, like today. It’s going to affect people in a real positive way, man, of what we doing now. It’s going to have that effect. That’s very important because again, we got to remember, it’s a young nation, so we continue. I was [00:54:00] citing the third parties, as I think it is. Abraham Lincoln, that was a third party that eventually became the Civil War and freed us. The next third party would be -what’s my man’s name? What was the name of an organizer, (inaudible)? R: Which one? RL: Yeah, no, no. You know, I was giving the names of the -- R: Oh, yeah, you talked about -- JJ: That’s not Eugene? RL: (inaudible) 24 �R: Debs. JJ: Oh, Eugene Debs, no? R: Eugene Debs. RL: Yeah. All right. Lincoln; Eugene Debs, working-class poor. [00:55:00] R: (inaudible) RL: And then we move up to definitely like Cesar Chavez. It was a possible thirdparty movement, the Chicano movement. And then we move up to the Rainbow Coalition because we really became solid because see, when you ran for -- JJ: Alderman. RL: -- alderman, that was a sign, now, you know. That was a sign. And Barack Obama definitely picked that sign up. That was a sign for us, and it’s a sign for us now, but we got to have the history to lead. [00:56:00] We got to lead the history, man. And so, what we are doing now is very important. For example, I’m organizing in mile square, and I only tell very few people that because organizers are always, you gotta to know who share that with, who to not. And the fact of it is right in your face. Draw your turf, and knock over every door in that turf. And we do that. That’s what we do, and that’s what helped build the Panther Party, really, that mile square. JJ: One of the things that you did, because I remember those letters that we put in the archives, that’s when I saw your wife that first time because you had photos. So, one of the things that you tend to do, and you did that in ’69, [00:57:00] was to give information to everybody you talk to. RL: Yes. 25 �JJ: Why do you do that? RL: So they can make their copies. See, that’s why I call ’em up. The original copies, the originals of my art is at the Phogg Foundation, the South Austin Museum of Popular Art. That’s where all my originals are, the South Austin Museum of Popular Art. They have the originals. Then what I’ll do, I’ll color up. See, I’ll run -- my wife might run, in a week, almost a week, maybe 50 copies, and that’s when I color ’em, make ’em real pretty. Then I send ’em out to activists, politicians, even to Klansmen. See, some people put ’em on the walls, so what happens [00:58:00] is they’ll make their copies. See, they’ll end up running off -- some people, 30, 40, 50 copies. They’ll mail it to their people because everybody at least know 10 human beings, at least, and it’s real brief, and it speaks to them in a real brief way, because people spend thousands of dollars mailing these beautiful brochures and all that that a lot of folks won’t read. So, you gotta have it in folks’ experience. You gotta set the art where they know Cha Cha Jiménez. See what I’m saying? So, that’s why I spend a lot of time sitting and color them. (inaudible) I got my coloring book here. I’ll get up at one. I’ll get up around three o’clock, and then I’ll [00:59:00] go to work, you know, doing coloring. Let Cha Cha see that basket with the -- right there beside you. F: The box? RL: The box, yeah. Show you where I keep my working materials. JJ: And you send them? It’s like a message that you’re sending them? RL: Yeah, see, I’ll personally (inaudible). Yeah, that’s it there. See, I’ll personally -- F: (inaudible) 26 �JJ: I can get that from there? Okay, thank you. RL: So, see, what I do, as you know, is the -- JJ: Is that like a propaganda tool? RL: Yeah, we could use that. [01:00:00] JJ: I mean, what do you call it? RL: It’s a positive propaganda. JJ: It’s positive propaganda? RL: Yeah. It’s a positive. It’s a negative and positive about it. JJ: Do you feel that that reaches people? RL: Man, yeah, I know. Especially in this neighborhood over here, there are people calling, “Hey, man. You mad at me?” (laughs) No, man. We know we know it works in the Fifth Ward. I don’t know outside the Fifth Ward, but it works here, especially maybe a week before an election, when we announce who we run for. And see, our free health clinic is right up the street, so I have all the equipment that I want, copy machines and everything, you know, everything. But no, mostly the people who really profit by it is the working-class poor in Precinct One. And then [01:01:00] I’ll send what I call select pieces, you know, to you or Carol Gray, but 90 percent of them will go out in the Fifth Ward, Jasper, you know. Come on in. Come on in. JJ: And we can still finish it up. Give me some remarks that you want to leave, and then the -- RL: Oh, come on in here. Come in. Give me the poster. This is one of the original organizers. Pull up Cha Cha Jiménez. 27 �F1: I didn’t bring my -- RL: Cha Cha, you got your -- JJ: What? I don’t have a [brochure?]. RL: Huh? JJ: It’s C-H-A like the (inaudible), C-H-A, and then Jiménez is J-I-M-E-N-E-Z. J is like an H. RL: Yeah, he flew in. [01:02:00] JJ: Or you can just look up the Young Lords. That’s the group that we worked with, with the Panthers. F1: The Young Lords? JJ: Yeah, the Young Lords. RL: Did I give you a button? Did I give you any buttons? You got buttons, the Rainbow Coalition button? F1: No. You gave me some papers. RL: Oh. No, give you some buttons. Yeah, the Rainbow Coalition buttons might be over here or might be over there. F1: She has ’em. RL: Now, anybody in the family need some? F1: (inaudible) RL: Nephews? Okay. F1: Thank you. RL: Yeah, Google that right away because for the political arena, before he joined politics, he was the leader of close to 2,000 boys in Chicago, Young Lords. 28 �[01:03:00] Well, he’s like a Puerto Rican Malcolm X. I’ll put it that way. I’ve been knowing him from day one. She had three people in his organization that was killed by the police, you know. F1: Do you live in Chicago now? JJ: I’m actually in Michigan now. I’m in contact with Chicago yeah. RL: You got some pins for her? F: Yes. RL: Yeah, give her the Rainbow Coalition button. She got ’em? F: Uh-huh. RL: Okay. If you want some more, but pull up Cha Cha Jiménez. F1: I remember. RL: Okay. All right. All power to the people. F1: All right. RL: And come up any time you want and chat with me. F1: All right. (inaudible). RL: I’ll never stop organizing. [01:04:00] JJ: (inaudible) We can -- RL: No, no. We have the time (inaudible). Yes, sir, Cha Cha. We (inaudible). Now, since you have to ask me things that you want to know, but like I was saying, if you want to start a novice out in organizing, as you well know, start him out on his own block, but he’s got to identify some resources that he’ll have. He gotta be able to call the community centers, know what they have to offer, food banks, [blawie, blawie?]. So, he contact people, introduce himself, he’ll have a resource 29 �to help him. That’s all we’d do in the communities. Like my wife, she work at Harris County Social Service, [01:05:00] thanks to her brother-in-law being a boss. And she was able to get this job and a degree in it. She taught at Arabic private schools. But no, man, we on a real good roll, man. The only reason this thing won’t roll, we don’t get the information out. We gotta get it out now ’cause Trump is already everywhere, has defined America, and Trump defined it as being white nationalist. And Young Lords, from day one till now, we don’t define that. Our issue is Puerto Rico. Those people that’ll go against [01:06:00] that would be the Hispanic, Spanish, rich ruling class have controlling interests in Puerto Rico, as opposed to the masses, people which is over there. And folks don’t know that. They don’t understand. Many people, that is, don’t understand, man, the pressure of the Puerto Rican people. It’s not them sitting around getting drunk. That’s the energy the media is giving. When they show our brothers there, they kind of sometimes show lavish living. “Why do they want to have a -- they doing good.” You know? But they don’t know about the assassination attempt that was the reason. [01:07:00] That was the reason, but they blow that up. Oh, man. They start out with that assassination attempt. JJ: So, you mean the assassination attempt in -- RL: Huh? JJ: It was in 1950? RL: Right, and Truman, that’s the one they was trying to get. JJ: They focused on that in Puerto Rico? RL: That’s right. 30 �JJ: So, in the Rainbow Coalition, you were organizing that. Were you planning on that, or it just came about? How was that? JJ: No. I was invited to speak at the Church of Three Crosses, me, I forget, me and another Panther. And I accepted to go there. What had happened, the people [01:08:00] that rolled the program out mixed us up for the same program, which that wasn’t no -- God wanted that to happen, okay? And so, when I arrived that night, I was the only Black there, me and that Panther. I was the only Black there, and they didn’t know that I was there because I always felt that you wear the beret and the leather for certain effects. But then you just later put on your everyday clothing. Guys were getting busted in the party for being in the car going to get one of those, which I love them, Polish sandwich, and get [01:09:00] arrested over supper. So, I just tell people, we got Chicago and Oakland Panthers. There’s a big difference in Oakland. You can do that. Berkeley, Cal was that. Cal State was not, you know? But when -- you gonna ask a question? JJ: I gotta turn this off for a second. (break in audio) Okay. So, we were asking what? JJ: How did I meet the Young Patriots? Like I said, it was a lawyer, activist lawyer that invited me to the Church of Three Crosses, and it was still all white. I was the only Black there, me and a guy named Lionel. I think he was from Mississippi. [01:10:00] And so, when I arrived, we sat in the front row, and the Lords had spoken a week earlier, and they invited the Lords to talk. I mean the Young Patriots was invited a week earlier. And then, the committee agreed to it, 31 �and this lawyer then invited me to come. So, we got there the next week. I had never, ever, man, had witnessed white people attacking white people. [01:11:00] I had never seen that. I’m from the South, you know. And there was a lot of confrontation in there. Michael just edited. (inaudible) just edited. See, Michael got almost four decades of filming us here in Jasper, and you know, the projects he had. But I was stunned to see that. It was a change, an evolution, for me to see that. And so, the second time we came, I’m sitting, waiting on Hy and them to finish and Junebug to finish. They (inaudible). They had everything. The only thing they didn’t cover, let’s see, [01:12:00] anything that they were -- shit, they covered everything, police brutality, tenement housing, tuberculosis, welfare. They covered it. They were speaking for me also. So, when things quieted down, the meeting, when it was over, the minister allowed us to go into their chamber to talk, and wonderful meeting, man. Wasn’t no tension, nothing like that, and then that’s when we had an informal structure that was placed together. The biggest issue in Uptown was our issue, or police brutality. And I knew that much [01:13:00] that I should take a role to prove ourselves. That’s first that the warrior must do if you come from another camp. You put yourself out there to show the people that you’re willing to put yourself on the line for them. What’s more bigger than putting your ass on the line with the Chicago Police, you know? But then that’s when we went up to Uptown and came back. This time, I had (inaudible) with me and Ruby with me. And we spent a lot of time up there, but after about two weeks, I knew it was time to tell Fred that they had molded our 32 �relationship. And Fred just naturally just fit into it, and [01:14:00] it’s all history now, you know, all history. JJ: So, you told him, and what was the reaction? RL: Well, Fred already was a Socialist. Fred already had strong ties with the politics of working-class struggle. I had, you know. Now, you had many Panthers that left. They just couldn’t handle it, which I understood that because we’re talking about the ’60s, man, when churches were being bombed, and Dr. King was killed, Malcolm. We spent a lot of time on that, and I understood that. But many came back, as I stated. And it was all a reeducation process. With a Southern white, you start with John Brown, man, then move on up to Lincoln, [Dell Rowe?], [01:15:00] these white boys, and they (inaudible) white boys. But you saw with John Brown. You saw with John Brown. A lot of cats don’t even know him because in the South, they don’t talk about John Brown, no class revolution, Cha Cha. If they write anything about John Brown, they always make it sound like he was a maniac or mentally crazy, all of that. Even the movies were projecting him as being mentally unstable, but there’s no parks in the South for John Brown. There is no schools, no streets, none of that, man. [01:16:00] So, this is it. JJ: What are your strongest memories there of Chicago, the organizing work there? RL: Memories? JJ: I mean, that you think, you know -- RL: I’ma simply answer. Just coming to Chicago, that’s the best I can put in words, because it changed me. It made me the person I am right now, and so for me, it’s a lifestyle change for me that has lasted to this day, [01:17:00] because it’s 33 �not only affected me and not only affected what we try to do in Chicago and everything, man. We got a political base in Houston, you know? So, that, Chicago, I’ll put it this way. If you want to be a musician, you go to New York City. If you want to be an actor, you go to California. You want to be a labor organizer, community organizer, you go to Chicago. JJ: Why is that? RL: I think it’s just the nature of the population. It’s the nature of the nation that we [01:18:00] live in. Chicago had the basic massive industry. Back of the yards, there’s always been a struggle of the ethnic group communities that you could really identify. You knew where the Polish communities were. You knew where the Irish communities were, German communities. You knew where they were, then where the Young Lords was. You knew that community. You knew where the Black communities were. And since that’s been a working-class environment always, then what you’re doing always, organizing and making lives better for people. And a lot has changed in Chicago but not like we would like to. So, that’s how I’ve split it up. JJ: What do you want the Chicago boys to know [01:19:00] about Bobby Lee? RL: I was a good boy, good man. I spent my life there for them, and for me. That’s what I want people to know. And really making that possible, you and Hy and (inaudible). It’s simple [01:20:00] as that, man. JJ: I appreciate it. I appreciate that. Any final thoughts (inaudible)? RL: Oh, wow. JJ: (laughs) 34 �RL: I found a peace, and I added to it. The Rainbow Coalition is like the people on one hand. That’s what we were. When one was in pain, Cha Cha, Hy, Junebug, Bobby McGuiness, [01:21:00] I’m giving him a car, man. I ain’t seen Bobby in 40 years. So, when any member of the coalition is in pain, we’re all in pain. We all gotta watch out for each other, man. And when the spirit is in pain, then your whole body is in pain. We won’t survive. If we all work hard and help each other and never stop organizing, never stop serving the people, man, and we know this, I’ve said what I would teach my organizing classes, and I used to tell Fred, the people on the West Side, [01:22:00] they don’t read The Red Book. They read The Black Book (Bible?), and that every person in that Bible, and I’ve said it thousands of times, man, every person in that Bible are organizers or servers of the poor. That’s what I want people to remember, that when they read their Bible, every person in that Bible, they lived and died serving the poor. JJ: Take a break? RL: No. What you want? JJ: We’ll take a break. I don’t want to exhaust you. RL: Okay. [01:23:00] I didn’t want my wife seeing me crying. HT: She’s talking to someone up in hospice. (break in audio) JJ: It is really (inaudible). That’s what we got in common. Everybody got the stuff like that in common. 35 �RL: Yeah, I’ll tell you, (inaudible) years ago, just a real good joke because you’re going to jail. (laughs) Yeah, I said, “You’re going to jail. (inaudible) three or four good jokes, because you’re going to jail.” JJ: Right. “And you better make sure.” RL: (inaudible) “Eventually, you will go to the Chicago jail.” JJ: That’s going to keep you alive. RL: (laughs) Oh, that’s funny, man. While you’re here, I’d like [01:24:00] to meet Miss Katz. JJ: Who’s Katz? She works here? RL: She’s in Chicago, Marilyn Katz. JJ: Oh, Marilyn Katz, I know Marilyn Katz. HT: Yeah, she’s got a (inaudible). She’ll be talking to you today. RL: Okay. Yeah, I never met here, but she’s always on my letter list. JJ: Okay, she’s on your letter list. RL: Yeah, (inaudible). She got some colorful characters involved, because I knew of her activities, and so I wanted to meet her (inaudible). JJ: She was proactive in the community. RL: Very. JJ: Very proactive. HT: She was the first person I met when I came to Chicago. [01:25:00] JJ: Oh, she is? She’s still active? Is she still active? HT: Oh, yeah, she’s on our board. Yeah, she’s very cool. 36 �RL: I like her (inaudible) work, and I thanked her for the things she’s done for the people. But yeah, man, any new thoughts on what we been talking about? JJ: I know when we were talking yesterday, we were talking about your oral history, so we were starting to talk about your brothers and sisters, how many that we have and where you grew up. How was it like growing up here? RL: See, my oldest sister’s name, Dolly, and she was the one that was born in Jasper, [01:26:00] but again, in the forest. And she was about seven years old, she got real sick. JJ: You call it the forest? RL: Yeah, we lived in the forest. We say Jasper, but we have a Post Office box that say Jasper. We live in the forest, in the woods, in like a village, and she got real sick one night, and my dad and them tried to rush to her to the hospital to get her to Jasper, but during segregation, they wouldn’t take her. So, then they tried to drive to Galveston, and she didn’t make it. She died. [01:27:00] JJ: Because of the segregation, she had to go a long route. RL: Yeah. See, my oldest brother, Jesse Lee, he was a pretty strong dude, man. He should’ve never been down in the South with the temper that he had, you know? And he wouldn’t take too much insults from the white supremacy brothers. And all they said to him was (inaudible). And Jesse was sentenced. And he spent [01:28:00] a lot of time on the farm, and my brother would stay there quite a while in the prison. We knew he was getting beat and everything, and he died in prison. Then it came down to me and my brother named Thurman, which is a question that I have a brother named Thurman, and then the guy that don’t have 37 �the same look, that don’t have the same blood but have the same spirit. Where Hy Thurman? JJ: He’s right here. RL: Hy Thurman. My brother, and that’s Irish, real Irish, and then we go on down the list, (inaudible). [01:29:00] JJ: What schools did you go to? RL: Atherton Elementary School. Then I went to Phillis Wheatley. The Atherton Elementary School, E.O. Smith, he was a labor organizer in the Fifth Ward (inaudible), and my parents (inaudible) also, and you know, I was raised around union talk. So, from there, from E.O. Smith, I went to Phillis Wheatley High School. Have you ever heard of her, Cha Cha? JJ: Who? What was her name? RL: Phillis [01:30:00] Wheatley. JJ: No. Was that the name of the high school? RL: Yeah. JJ: Okay, I can look it up. RL: Pull her name up. JJ: We can do that later. RL: She was the first Black published poet. She did a poem on George Washington. JJ: So, you love a lot of poetry, right? Was that poem you were saying? RL: You know who inspired that was Al “Bunchy” Carter. I added to it, added another word in, (inaudible) it a little bit, you know. But no, I’d added that to that. Bunchy Carter, he was the Panther that was shot and killed [01:31:00] in LA. 38 �JJ: In Los Angeles? RL: Yeah. With Ericka Huggins. JJ: That’s right. So, what’s your organizing here in -- because you moved here right after Fred Hampton? RL: No. No, I didn’t move. I really (inaudible) later, May 1960, when I would pretty much officially go home. May 1960, no, that’s not right. Oh, man. JJ: ’Cause it happened in ’69. RL: Yeah. He died in ’69. [01:32:00] JJ: Right, so it was after that, sometime. RL: I came May 1960. No. I came -- JJ: Was it a lot of years afterwards? RL: No. I came home May of 1970. JJ: You know, we got a chance to look at some of the masks that you have in here. RL: Huh? JJ: Some of the masks, African masks. RL: Yes. JJ: That you have in your living room. We didn’t get any photos, but we were looking. They mentioned something about they symbolize different things? RL: They symbolize the 29 Panthers that got killed. [01:33:00] It’s symbolizing Manuel Ramos. It symbolizes [Ronaldo?]. JJ: Julio Roldan. RL: It’s hard to pronounce his name. JJ: Yeah, no, that’s name. 39 �RL: He’s a Puerto Rican brother out of -- JJ: New York. RL: -- out of New York. JJ: Yeah, Julio Roldan, they got killed, yeah. RL: He was shot. New York. JJ: Yeah, Julio Roldan, they got killed, yeah. RL: He was shot. JJ: I appreciate that. I appreciate that. RL: Yeah, he was shot by a cop. JJ: Right. RL: That represents, when you look at all those names, I know what it is, but keeping that, it represents the warrior instinct. Other people have forgotten Manuel, and [01:34:00] a lot of folks have never even heard of Jake Winters. JJ: Jake Winters? RL: Yeah, Jake was November 1969. That’s when Jake had a shootout on the South Side, and then later, the next month, that’s when COINTELPRO came after us. Where Hy? F: He’s here. JJ: Yeah, it’s your medicine. You’re getting low. Is that what that is? NURSE: Your light is on. Can we help you? F: It is beeping. RL: Say what? JJ: I think probably it needs to get changed. 40 �RL: Oh, yeah, that. [01:35:00] F: His machine is beeping. N: Thank you. JJ: Thank you, Faiza. I appreciate that. RL: (inaudible) F: No. RL: (inaudible) F: Yeah. RL: All those masks on the wall, that whole wall were all warriors. I know it. My wife know it. People who come in, then they see. Well, they see the house is different when they walk in there. They know that (inaudible). You know what I’m gonna do? I’m gonna wait (inaudible). Did I introduce y’all? JJ: Did you -- what was that? [01:36:00] F: Yeah, (inaudible) know all of them know. Yeah, when she sees them on the street, she knows them. Yeah. RL: Yeah, we’ll wait until Cha Cha, he gonna catch a flight, and he gotta get on up. That’s a long drive. JJ: Are you kicking me out already? RL: No. Well, I’ll keep you here. Imagine all of us here in Houston, you know? Imagine all of us in Houston, man. So, when are you going back to Puerto Rico? JJ: You know, because of the project, we were able to get some funding. RL: Thank you. I’m sorry that I -- N: You’re welcome. No problem. 41 �JJ: We were able to get a little funding. I went four times. I hadn’t been there like in 20 years, and I went four times. I went in one year. But I was working. That’s during the recent oral histories and stuff. RL: I’d like to go there. [01:37:00] JJ: I was telling Ray that your house is like Puerto Rico because you got the parrots, and you got the palm trees on the other side. But for me, everything, it looks like Puerto Rico. RL: And the birds. R: (inaudible) JJ: And everyone -- (laughs) F: There were a few blackbirds. The others, because it’s all cloudy and overcast, so they haven’t been there yet, but there were a few blackbirds. RL: Oh, the red-wing blackbirds or the ravens? F: No, the ravens. RL: Okay. Yeah, man, we got some beautiful birds, man. JJ: No, it’s nice. It looks like they replanted the trees after they took it away from Mexico. They put the northern trees in Texas. (laughs) They used to be palm trees, but after they took it from Mexico, they put northern trees. F: They put (inaudible). (laughs) HT: Yeah, Northerners taking over everything. [01:38:00] JJ: Yeah. (laughs) I saw pine trees. That’s for snow. You know what I’m saying? But they’ll make up anything. They’ll come up with anything. (laughs) 42 �RL: Then, Cha Cha, after that, man, I was real fortunate to have a friend named [Laddie Earl Altham?]. We met each other in nursery school, and I didn’t wanna run no track. I was mostly into jazz, into music, because I was raised around nightclubs. I had that (inaudible). But when Laddie was 15, he drowned, and he already taught me how to come off the block. Where Hy? JJ: He’s right over here. F: He’s right here. [01:39:00] HT: I’m here, buddy. RL: Okay. And when Laddie drowned, we had a school athlete award banquet when I was in the band. You know, the band boys, they get the girls, you know. (laughter) You was going to be a band boy or gang leader, one or the other. JJ: You had a plan, huh? (laughs) RL: And I went out, man. My first track meet, I won. And I trained a lot with the coaches I had, and my first track meet, I won, and I won again. JJ: That’s pretty good. RL: My wife can tell you about all the silver and gold medals and things like that, and I kept winning and winning, [01:40:00] and it took me to college on a scholarship. JJ: Oh, you got into college on a scholarship? RL: Yeah, I got a college scholarship, Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. But I had signed up for VISTA. That’s what got me directed to VISTA. I was in college though already, and the movement, man, and if you have any tendency, like I showed you the bottom of my heel, I’m born with the mark of Achilles. JJ: See who? 43 �RL: Achilles. JJ: Achilles, they call it Achilles’ heel. RL: Heel, yeah. They’ll call it Achilles. It’s a medical term. JJ: So, you’re part Indian too. RL: You see, most athletes, they get it. [01:41:00] It’s a sprain on their heels. F: Yeah, they recognize it. JJ: Cherokee? F: Yeah, Cherokee and Choctaw or something. JJ: Cherokee and what? F: Choctaw. RL: Yeah, that’s word I was (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). I was trying to separate it from the mythology to the medical, you know, and from that point, Cha Cha, right on till today. But that’s a good question there, about family. I love talking about family. That’s a good question, man. JJ: Because you’re a family person, or why do you like to talk about the family? RL: Huh? F: He said, “Why do you like to talk about family?” RL: That’s the ultimate talk. Then [01:42:00] when you go outside, then you talk about kicking ass, (laughs) organizing, organizing. JJ: So, you go from family to kicking ass. (laughs) RL: Yeah. When you go home, you’re talking to your brothers and sisters and uncles. You know, you’re listening. Then you have an all kinda home-cooking meal, cakes and, you know. That’s a genuine conversation because family, we 44 �wouldn’t be who we are now, man, if it wasn’t for how our family raised us. And yes, everybody have a crazy uncle. (laughter) But I got Thurman like that Archie Bunker of the family. (inaudible) get a job, man. JJ: (laughs) RL: That’s Thurman, [01:43:00] a good man. He’s a good man. JJ: How did the family -- did you see that with the Rainbow Coalition? How did that play? RL: It was at play. JJ: Was that related to that? RL: Yeah. The Rainbow Coalition represented family because like I was saying, if one of the fingers on one hand is paining, everybody paining, you know? And then, all of a sudden, the whole body pain, like with me with this cancer. My whole family, they cool and everything, but my whole family is affected by it because they feel like you guys do, ’cause we family. So, family, [01:44:00] ain’t nothing like it. Once mom’s gone and grandma’s gone and, you know, grandparents, you know, the people that come to you, right or wrong, my daddy used to say -- excuse this language -- but my daddy used to say, “Junior, if you get in a fight, blah, blah, blah, blah, fight hard, son, because I’d rather for another motherfucker be dead than you.” (laughter) JJ: That’s great. RL: Yeah, man. My family, that’s what we doing, Ray, you, Faiza, you know. F: Hy. RL: Hy. 45 �JJ: Hy. RL: It’s family. And it’s serious family when you wake up one morning, like Hy did, and [01:45:00] in the Washington Post. JJ: Okay, Washington Post. RL: Yeah, Washington Post. JJ: I saw that article. It’s a good article. RL: Yeah, right? That’s a hell of a shot there, man. And we all family. You put family as your root, as your root because all struggle (inaudible) community (inaudible) and be a family. Then it’s spreaded out. We wanted our nephews and folks in the house to be safe from the police, to have jobs, [01:46:00] you know, decent housing, healthcare. We wanted our mothers to have pretty dresses. We wanted that. So, I’m waiting, Cha Cha. JJ: You’re waiting for me to say something? RL: I thought you wanted to ask another question. JJ: No, just, you know, we were talking about family, and I was just kind of letting you -- the importance of that, and I think you described it well. So, we’re leaving pretty soon. I just wanted to know, what do you want me and the other people to remember? I know I asked you that before, but I didn’t ask you what you want me to make sure that we should remember. And you know, when I’m going back, since I’m going back. [01:47:00] RL: What we been doing, years ago, right on till now, is keep serving people. If it’s just three or four hours a day you do something, you know, like my mom would say, “Save your own soul.” Do something. That’s pretty much how simple it is, 46 �man. I’m excited, just the thought of a third party. I’m excited about the idea of having a big conference at Ole Miss. We can do that now. We can do that. We got a man in this room that personally knows (inaudible). Those are realities. Now y’all better get to rolling ’cause (inaudible). JJ: Okay, we’re going to get you rolling. RL: I’m serious. [01:48:00] If they have a record, man, don’t [leave it to the?] law. JJ: I appreciate hanging out with yesterday all day, and we had a good conversation. It’s the longest time I’ve been in the hospital, (laughs) but I appreciate it. RL: Yeah, I appreciate it too. JJ: Talking with Faiza and Hy, that man from the Young Patriots, and of course my friend Ray here. So, I really appreciate the time, the opportunity. RL: Yeah, man. JJ: I love you, my brother. I appreciate that. RL: We’ll get together. If I’m not here, then Faiza’ll be here. She know the history. She know what to do. You know, that’s why I wanted her to step up front, so you can hear her and her skill for sitting and talking with you. Yeah, Faiza breaks the stereotype. JJ: (inaudible) [01:49:00] Okay, so we’re going to get ready to take off. RL: Yeah, you don’t want to miss that (inaudible), man. JJ: No, but thank you. Thank you very much. RL: They got all that security you got to go through, all that shit now, man. HT: Don’t forget your peanuts on the plane. 47 �JJ: Oh, yeah, then they got peanuts. They give you peanuts, and you give you security and shake you down. I asked the other guy, “Why are you shaking?” (laughter) I’m just kidding. Okay. RL: Okay. END OF VIDEO FILE 48 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dfa2fb63402b2ad10cd9067e844fd1de.mp4 4ea7799a93377bb599fe92fbd2a5e07f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Robert E. Lee vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry Bob Lee o Robert E. Lee creció en el "bosque" cerca de Jasper, TX. Su familia trabajaba en una plantación de algodón. Uno de sus hermanos Franco se convirtió en un comisionado del condado de la 5 ª Sala de Houston por más de 30 años. En 1969, Bob Lee se convirtió en Subdirector de Campo del Capítulo de Illinois del Partido de las Panteras Negras. Su trabajo incluyó Uptown donde comenzó a trabajar con la Organización de Jóvenes Patriotas. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Lee_Robert Title A name given to the resource Robert E. Lee video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Robert Description An account of the resource Bob Lee or Robert E. Lee grew up in the “forest” near Jasper, TX. His family worked on a cotton plantation. One of his brothers Franco became a county commissioner of the 5th Ward of Houston for over 30 years. In 1969 Bob Lee became a Deputy Field Marshall for the Illinois Chapter of the Black Panther Party. His worked included Uptown where he started working with the Young Patriots Organization and the Young Lords. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-16 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b869ef1566e7a1d9cb2b90aafbd98b43.pdf 75e957d2da00752bd33fa2ae49d26860 PDF Text Text Centerville Twp Leelanau County Centerville Township - Zoning Districts • Leelanau County, Michigan Good Harbor Bay Adopted: 12/2/19; Effective: 2/23/20 µ .I . .I '.\ \ • . .'I I ,. . ~ • .,·"·' .I I. '•. I . \ \. ·, \ . '.·, ' \. 'I { .,.J °'·.... Lake Leelanau .I,. . I I ___ _____ .J._ .• I I 1: • I Township Properties Sleeping Bear Nat'l Park . I - Agricultural Business ,., Commercial Resort Residential 1 •. -- .• Residential 2 Recreational This map is prepared by Leelanau County for reference purposes only. Leelanau County is not liable for any errors that may be found herein. / .'- ·' Ski View Farms Sub 1 inch = 4,000 feet RHerman_2.19.2020 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Centerville-Twp_Zoning-Map_2020 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau County Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-02-23 Title A name given to the resource Centerville Township-Zoning Districts Description An account of the resource The Centerville Township-Zoning Districts map was prepared by Leelanau County and was effective as of February 23, 2020. Subject The topic of the resource Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Centerville Township (Mich.) Leelanau County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/796f222209a7be99a27383469ab3a18d.pdf 8899e02cce5a32861078212aae50fd99 PDF Text Text RD MCALLISTER RD ERDT RD OTTO RD Leel anau Trail REVOLD RD CENTER HWY CENTER OTTO RD SEND RD LEE POINT RD MURRAY CT WEST GRAND TRAVERSE BAY RD TE R VIE W LA K EL EE LA N AU DR OTTO RD MAPLE VALLEY RD MORIO RD PIN E RI CH KOHLER RD SUTTONS BAY TOWNSHIP / LA AY S H R W VIE KE CENTER HWY MELIS SA D HILL TOP RD SHADY LANE RD BIN GH A D MR RD LAKE LEELANAU DR RD SUNN YVIEW Bingham Township Zoning Map Last Amended May 2016 Prepared by Leelanau County Planning & Community Development Printed May 2016 ELMWOOD TOWNSHIP BIRCH POINT RD WES T-B ELM VALLEY RD DONNER RD LAKE LEELANAU DR LAKE LEELANAU O RE DR FORT RD Rural Residential Zoning District Agricultural Zoning District LAKEVIEW HILLS RD Commercial Zoning District Industrial Zoning District WALTERS DR Residential Zoning District 0 0.25 0.5 1 Miles Where the Township Zoning Map shows that the edge of a zoning district extends parallel to, and beyond, a private or public road right of way ("ROW"), the boundary of the zoning district, determined roughly perpendicular to the ROW, shall be construed as extending 450 feet beyond the center line of the ROW, unless the Zoning Map shows the zoning district boundary terminates at the rear parcel line of a parcel that adjoins the ROW. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Bingham-Twp_Zoning-Map_2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau County Planning & Community Development, Leelanau County, Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-05 Title A name given to the resource Bingham Township Zoning Map Description An account of the resource The Bingham Township Zoning Map was prepared by Leelanau County Planning & Community Development in May 2016. Subject The topic of the resource Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Map Bingham Township (Mich.) Leelanau County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b44a19e044eb4ae2cbdc261ca50ba2c.pdf ce9eb7668c32ad1a621fdf356f1956fe PDF Text Text Hidden Lake CLEVELAND TOWNSHIP ZONING Lake MAP Michigan 31 32 33 Shell Lake 6 Ü Lake Michigan Good Harbor 5 4 1 3 2 10 11 Narada Lake 7 9 8 12 Bass Lake 18 Little Traverse Lake M 22 17 16 School Lake 15 13 14 23 20 21 22 24 Lime Lake D Inland Lakes 1//,, National Park 29 28 Zoning Districts 25 ad Ro Residential 2 5 67 Business 1 Business 2 32 Commercial Resort 33 Governmental Recreational Glen Lake 0.5 1 2 Miles 26 34 County Road 667 -- Residential 1 Residential 3 0 27 Agricultural County Road 669 ty un Co D D D 35 36 Map for Reference Purposes Only Data from Cleveland Township Prepared by Leelanau County Planning & Community Development September 2012 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Cleveland-Twp_Zoning-Map_2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau County Planning & Community Development, Leelanau County, Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-09 Title A name given to the resource Cleveland Township Zoning Map Description An account of the resource The Cleveland Township Zoning Map was prepared by Leelanau County Planning & Community Development in September 2012. Subject The topic of the resource Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Cleveland Township (Mich.) Leelanau County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a43e31f21ff6e87fc2965d58e49fd112.pdf 0097a05845e629fa6dab3f0e431f3776 PDF Text Text Trumbull Rd N Shimek Rd Cemetery Rd lli Su nR va Bohemian Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! !!! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! W Empire Hwy ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Baatz Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Armstrong Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Pettengill Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! W Traverse Hwy ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Agricultural Forested Gravel ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Commercial Planned Development Special Purpose District ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! y lle Va ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Rd Kasson Center Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Sullivan Rd Darga Rd Valley Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! E ! Kasson Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! E Traverse Rd Ruthardt Rd Davis Lake Rd LEGEND ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! S Tower Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Kasben Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! S Maple City Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Newman Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! S Coleman Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Fritz Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Armstrong Lake Rd Gilbert Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! d en R ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! b Kas ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Pierce Rd d R ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! d ak R itz Fr ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! inger R d Nov Bloswick Rd ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! E Bell Bright Rd Nash Rd 0 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Maple St d W Burdickville Rd W Burdickville Rd Rd Run r a Ced ZONING MAP N KASSON TOWNSHIP LEELANAU COUNTY, MICHIGAN 2009 MAP FOR REFERENCE PURPOSES ONLY Data provided by Kasson Township Prepared by Leelanau County Planning & Community Development - 0 0.5 1 WM Kilometers 2 IN 0 0.5 1 2 Miles 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Kasson-Twp_Zoning-Map_2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau County Planning & Community Development, Leelanau County, Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009 Title A name given to the resource Zoning Map Description An account of the resource The Zoning Map for Kasson Township was prepared by Leelanau County Planning & Community Development in 2009. Subject The topic of the resource Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Kasson Township (Mich.) Leelanau County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/27abf49a8bf5a2189ce6421afb7e4de8.pdf f24bb2f07b7cf95fdf10b59f69e8034d PDF Text Text TOWHSHI~ GRAND BAY Q .. zC \ ' - •·- li" •'1«! !:20 SUTTONS -~_J BAY WEST ARM GRAND .. z i .~ TRAVERSE BAY �if' ,. ,,ff .30 /I - ~ GRAND 26 TRAVERSE BAY . z .g !I: :a: (!" -~·'"'!) i I I I I I I I I· I I I I I I I I I I LEELANAU 31 I I J I. I I I ----- 1 . I~~~" . ~. _ _ L~._-~ iw r~,wKOl<~:l.dd(~I : ,. ~ l'o,-l't♦ 1 ~,. !,ILL I __I__\~~._____. ■INGHAM ::.-:'.'\ ------------ TOWNSHIP' ,,,,,. t I LEELANAU COUNTY LEGEND ------~ MAP SYMBOLS• .,_ _____ ·-·-- - VILLAGE OF SUTTONS BAY CORPORATION UMIT PUBLIC ROAD -·- -------------------------- PRIVATE ROAD OVERLAY MAP: SPECIAL USE; CHURCHES AND DAY CARE CENTERS ZONING DISTRICTS FIESIDENTIAL (R) AGRICULTURE (A) .I. . ___L, COMMERCIAL (C) INDUSTRIAL (I) ALL TRUST LANDS ARE NOT SHOWN. TRUST LANDS ARE EXEMPT FROM LOCAL ZONING. WASTE MANAGEMENT (W) TL minute USGS t0f>09raphfc maps, GIiie P'-r, Mapi.ton, Omen• and Suttons· Bay ~nglH; colol::..lnfr■red aerial photography; th<t Certified County Road System All ■- of LHl ■nau county ■nd Inform• lion p,-ovlded by the LHlanau County Planning CommlMlon. Tlwt pareels on this map ntpl'9Mnt thoff un.t.r JMtpMate t■x deecriptlons, plstted ■ubdlvllllona, ■- of March 1, 1917. DESIGNATION FOR .OVERLAY ZONES _ FEDERAL TRUST LANDS (TL) SoYrc• metenM for tM p,-ep«•llon of thl• map Include: th<t Suttons. Bay Townehlp Ncilon of the LHl•nau county T ■x Map11; 15 minute USGS t0f)09f'sphic maps, Northport and Tr■verwe City ~adf'~; 7.5 Of lot patterns In . - / The baN for this map was prepared by Grace E. Dl<:klnson and Timothy. Doi.ti ■nty, Director, LHl ■nau County Planning O.partment, Leland, Michigan. Zoning detllgnatlons on thla map were dratted by Robert 0. Chamberland, Chairman, Sutton• Bay Township Zoning Board. J. The official Suttons Bay Townehlp Zoning M4lf) Is on ftle with th<t Sutton• Bay Township Clerk. Although ev.ry effort ha• been made to assure the accuracy and compi.te111tu of this map, prints may not be current or itecurate due to sul>Mquent ch•~• or reduced map ac ■i•. Contitet th<t Township Zoning Administrator or Township Clerk before taking any action based on this map. Note that the road• shown ■re not neceuarlly open to trafl'lc. LEELANAU COUNTY MICHIGAN 0 ~ d .5001'1'1. ,l:m.. ~ lpmi ,.cx,,,.,.. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Suttons-Bay-Twp_Zoning-Map_1994 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau County Planning Department, Leelanau County, Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1994-09-14 Title A name given to the resource Suttons Bay Township Zoning Map Description An account of the resource The Suttons Bay Township Zoning Map was prepared by the Leelanau County Planning Department and was certified on September 14, 1994. Subject The topic of the resource Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Suttons Bay Township (Mich.) Leelanau County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2263b232d17174909bbf306f08f54ff7.pdf b11ca7ae496e7baebf189de03f54174f PDF Text Text Village of Empire - Zoning Districts Village of Empire Leelanau County µ S PARK ST W FLORENCE ST Leelanau County, Michigan S ZELMER RD South Bar Lake DR Y CH A PPLE L N W SOUTH ST F IL LBY R T L W S ROEN RD S ONTARIO ST W MICHIGAN ST S LEELANAU HWY S S BAR W AYLSWORTH ST W O OD ST W MICHIGAN ST S LAKE S T MH ILL D R NT W WILCE ST S ERIE ST W WILCE ST ORCH ARD HI L L DR CE ES CR W W EH P IR EM W FRONT ST DR S Y S S UNION ST S LARUE ST AT CH W NIAGARA ST W S OR ST S AN W T W PHILLIP ST W PIT EL H DR W SALISBURY ST W LAMBKIN LN LL HI LE AU W O T TAWA AVE SS UN SE S REYNOLDS ST Lake Michigan S S LACORE RD S LA KE M ICHI GAN DR W FISHER ST R A CK ST W WASHINGTON ST LC S WI S W IS NI O D R EW SK D IR - Village Residential General Residential -- Mixed Residential Gateway Corridor District Adopted: 11/14/19; Effective: 11/25/19 -- Front Street District Recreation/Conservation - Planned Unit Development Light Industrial This map is prepared by Leelanau County for reference purposes only. Leelanau County is not liable for any errors that may be found herein. 1 inch = 800 feet RHerman_1.9.2020 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Empire_Zoning-Map_2019 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau County, Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-11-25 Title A name given to the resource Village of Empire-Zoning Districts Description An account of the resource The Village of Empire-Zoning Districts map was prepared by Leelanau County and is effective as of November 25, 2019. Subject The topic of the resource Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Map Empire (Mich.) Empire Township (Mich.) Leelanau County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f798dba81611898493489806e5086467.pdf c1277f97420c9bf521b2ce529601d45a PDF Text Text 10 OnnA.1.aJ ~AftA1 W -fr.;f.lJ,fo W n {j)QlJ-lJOLJ th O)J.r;)J.,l),t IB tl9J 1919 ~ fJa nc.11. C-0nfil),f,a :/4,act.JionAJJ f knc~ -w.u).md ju {011. 1.s.oo no ~ 1 112000 f &.a cf1A..&: ,Rh.cfll.i.c-lif/ wiii .111.c.hr.i.-eif r ~-~ 01t mo/'l..R. A.'n{ollm.afi on: Ca..Ri (j)Jt1.il_~ Clu:.1J,1J/l.Wa b/6-27/-3{,'fl./ � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_peshabestown-pow-wow_1979-08 Title A name given to the resource Annual Peshabestown Pow-Wow, August 1979 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-08 Description An account of the resource Annual Peshabestown Pow-Wow flyer, Peshawbestown MI, August 18-19, 1979, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau Indians, Inc. Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01a5b5d1cd45b51cc9b95b1a3c1f150a.pdf 95b401c900f24472be2cfaf01e98b5d5 PDF Text Text • , 1/ll(), 3-tn /ln6t£ fJ/;J; C~'~ c,1,) .:J?l-3'"" 313B' P.O. BOX 37, SUTTONS BAY, MICHIGAN 49682 •TEL.(616)271·-- �Leelanau Indian, Inc• P.O. Box 37 Suttons Bay, MI. 4968 2 Pete otto . Saginaw-Chippewa Tribal Operations 7070 East Broadway Mt. pleasant, MI. 48858 ·- � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_peshabestown-pow-wow_1980-10 Title A name given to the resource Annual Peshabestown Pow-Wow, August 1980 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980-08 Description An account of the resource Annual Peshabestown Pow-Wow flyer, Peshawbestown MI, August 16-17, 1980, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau Indians, Inc. Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d1f63513b18cb2d7e44b889bf146896b.pdf 9958f0b8476c1bd5136e40d2a07c6a71 PDF Text Text ~dtl//lm£J ~. . ,J~ 1J-t.i ~ab -toww ~--10 '-fJO!ff-Y(}!,(; AUGUST 15 & 16 1 1981 DANCE CONTESTS - TRADITIONAL & FANCY - $1500.00 PRIZE MONEY SATURDAY 1 AUGUST 15th SUNDAY, AUGUST 16th GRANO ENTRY 2:00 PM DANCING 'TIL 5:00 PM EVENING 7-10 PM GRANO ENTRY 2100 PM DANCING 'TIL 5100. ,PM PRINCESS CONTEST 17 - 21 INDIAN TRADERS ONLY! WEEKEND FEE1 $15.00 - NO ELECTRICITY $20.00 - WITH ELECTRICITY, "BLESSING OF GROUNDS" CEREMONY BY RELIGIOUS L&"'WERS SATURDAY - 1:00 PM OPENDRUM PUBLIC WELCOME! NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES MR. LOUIS KOON, CHAIRMAN, POW-WOW COMMITTEE MRS. ESTHER KOON, SJ:."CREl'ARY, POW-WOW COMMITTEE RR#l, BOX 118 PESHAWBESI'OWN COMMUNITY CENTER SUTTONS ~Y, MICHIGAN 49682 (HOME) (616) 271-3520 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_peshabestown-pow-wow_1981-09 Title A name given to the resource Annual Peshabestown Pow-Wow, August 1981 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-08 Description An account of the resource Annual Peshabestown Pow-Wow flyer, Peshawbestown MI, August 15-16, 1981, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leelanau Indians, Inc. Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/57bc71e8bebd89e5f1c77da0bfff842d.mp4 dafea19dc014e081e9547c2b8776d3ea https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f82eee0c4919b91804cbc394a34e8e3.pdf 68222c5695aadd2f0820e6140f419046 PDF Text Text Leet, James Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Korean War Interviewee’s Name: James Leet Length of Interview: (53:24) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman Interviewer: “We’re talking today with James Leet of Grand Haven, Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay Jim start us off with some background and to begin with, where and when were you born?” I was born in Manistee, 1930. Interviewer: “Did you grow up there or move around?” (00:22) Pardon me? Interviewer: “Did you grow up in Manistee or did you move around?” Yes, I grew up in Manistee and– Interviewer: “What did your family do for a living when you were a kid?” My– I could guess. My mother was widowed– Or divorced and we lived with my grandmother and her father and graduated from Manistee high in 1947 and– Interviewer: “Now before we move forward what was life like during World War II in Manistee, I mean in what ways were you kind of aware of its effect?” �Leet, James Not really, not really I was a sophomore in high school then. Interviewer: “Was there rationing in place and that kind of thing?” Oh yes, but I– With the parents that were there they took care of all that stuff and yes but from my point of view it was not critical. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so then when did you graduate– You graduated from high school then you said ‘47?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, and what did you do after you got out of high school?” I started working for my step-dad doing carpenter work, everything from putting roofing and finish carpenting. (2:10) The winter, the first winter, was kind of slow working with just the two of us, sometimes three, but we survived and worked crazy through the summer and I started to wake up a little bit and I said “I just don’t want to go through another wait and see in the winter again.” So I decided to join the service, I went down to the Navy and there was a three month waiting list. I said “Well.” Air Force wanted two months and I said “I can’t wait that long.” She says “Go upstairs.” So I go upstairs and the Army’s there, I said “I wanna join.” They said “Raise your right hand.” Three days later I was gone. Interviewer: “Alright, where did they send you for basic training?” Fort Knox. Interviewer: “Okay and what was– What did Fort Knox look like to you or what kind of facilities were you in?” �Leet, James Well it looked great, the bills– The barracks were fairly new, probably built back in World War II and everything looked great. Interviewer: “Okay, now how did they treat you when you got there?” Probably a little strictly, the first night there in those barracks, lights off 9:00, 9:15 somebody ran the full length of the second floor which is just above the heating ventilator, very soundy and ten minutes later we were all bundled up and they had– One was Agony Hill and the other one was similar. That’s the only time I really got disciplined but the whole barracks was and it settled in, you know they didn’t try it again. Interviewer: “Okay, so you said Agony Hill?” Yep. Interviewer: “Is that something they made you run up and down?” (5:08) Yeah it was just normal hills at night if it got ahead of you. Interviewer: “So they actually took you out of the barracks at night and made you run?” Oh yes. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and then what else– What did they actually teach you in basic?” Well just– It’s basic needs, how to shoot rifle, dismantle and– I didn’t– We only had eight weeks of basic, went down from the 13 and of course war was over so it wasn’t necessary to dismantle the rifle. Interviewer: “And they would teach you to follow orders right?” �Leet, James Oh yes, very much so. Interviewer: “Okay, was it easy for you to adjust to that?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, were there some other guys who were having more trouble than you were?” The only one I know of was a fella dealing with the Red Cross, his mother or father supposedly was dying and he couldn’t get the dominoes connected and he went AWOL, of course we didn’t see him again. Interviewer: “Okay, alright but basically otherwise everybody was getting through that fairly well?” (7:00) Oh we had one fellow, a farm boy– I’m assuming very much, he could not keep step with everybody or anybody else you saw just one head bobble but he took longer strides, he took a three foot stride. Interviewer: “Now you’re there and this is 1948 now, officially the military was becoming integrated. Were there any black recruits in your training unit?” Yeah– No, not that I– No, I don’t think there were but when I moved to Okinawa base then we got a few. Well it’s only one that I really remember, real nice guy and we had probably a– Maybe a platoon– No, no, not a platoon but a squad at least, of Filipinos who survived the war. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so to kind of go back– So Fort Knox was basically kind of standard marching, drilling, shooting for eight weeks, and then what did they do with you after that? Did you go was– Was that–” �Leet, James They didn’t ask me until I got out of the trade that they said “You want to do ship fitting or carpentry?” But that was after I was designated as ship’s fitter and that’s just ship carpentry, I know something about it. Interviewer: “Now did you get training– Let’s see was Fort Eustis, Virginia your next stop then?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and there you are training to be a shipfitter?” To start with, yes. Ship’s carpentry was we learned to plug holes and [unintelligible] Interviewer: “Alright, now was this just a training assignment there?” (9:25) Yes. Interviewer: “Okay and how long did that last?” I think it’s supposed to be four weeks altogether. Interviewer: “Okay, so not very long.” No, no they could’ve called it the first week and still had five days left, for me some of the guys never did get to be able to do it. Interviewer: “Okay, well when they were training I mean would you actually work on the holes of PT boats?” No, just a piece of plywood. �Leet, James Interviewer: “Okay, so you’re just patching holes in plywood?” Mhmm. Interviewer: “What do you patch a hole with?” Plywood. Interviewer: “Okay, and then how do you seal it?” Well they show you what it looks like, then all you have to do is make one similar. If there’s a hole here, you make a hole bigger and if you’re on the outside figuratively speaking, you chamfer all the way around so it’s bigger on the outside than the inside and then you do one or the other first then– Either the hole in the boat or the plug. (11:00) Plug would be just the opposite you’d fit it in best you could and there'd be another larger plate and fasten that on the inside. Interviewer: “Okay, alright now while you were there did you get to go off the base at all or look around anywhere?” Not really, the option was there but I didn’t take it, I was going there and working. Interviewer: “But I guess going as far as say Washington or Richmond or something like that was not really an option?” No. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so now you’ve had your training exercise there, where do they send you now for regular duty?” �Leet, James Oakland Army Base, California. Interviewer: “Okay and how do they get you to Oakland?” Train. Interviewer: “Okay and how long did that take?” Who remembers? Interviewer: “Well do you remember if you had to just sit around a lot and stop and wait for trains to go by or you got to roll pretty much straight through?” Well if you’re on the train half the time it was at night, didn’t pay any attention. Interviewer: “Okay I guess in the World War II era there was often a problem because there were so many trains going back and forth and troop trains sometimes went off to the side. This is peacetime and maybe they’re integrating you better into the regular schedule and it’s like being on a passenger train.” (12:30) No, [unintelligible, but seeming to suggest that the train went straight through]. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and now once you got to Oakland what did you wind up doing?” First chore was in the firehouse receiving stuff that’s virtually useless but stuff that returned from overseas, old beams or whatever. If I may go back to Fort Eustis, the first or second night I was there, we urged at night, we had a little fire. The warehouses were mixed with water and they’re a quarter of a mile long and one end was OOX supplies which was– Which burned and– But it didn’t really affect us except there was– Yes it did, we had fire duty for quite a length of time, till we shipped out but there was not much of a need for purchasing cigarettes, they survived but yep �Leet, James they got back to the warehouse stuff and they think we’re idiots but that was the intent of the powers that be and decided that we’re gonna patrol the California coast with PT boats. That’s why we were there, that didn’t materialize so I spent more time in warehouses again until I heard that they were in need of mail clerk and I held that. Well I went home for detail– Got to street– I don’t know. Interviewer: “Well you were I guess– So you were at your mail clerk there, Oakland Army Base and initially that's still peacetime. Did you get a chance to kind of go into town in Oakland or over to San Francisco?” We went to ‘Frisco once with a buddy, brought his car back there was three of us we jumped in there and crossed the bridge and first turn off the main road he turned right, one way, the wrong way so he turned left on the road is what he did, two more turns and we turned around like that but– Let’s see, yeah I stayed there and it’s the only time I spent time– Catholic organization that girls come over for dancing and it went– Not serious but the next evening I came home on furlough and it was a good break I guess, I never went back. (17:27) I was home and all my friends were either in college or working, it got kind of boring so my grandmother mentioned something about a roof, I said “Yeah, hey that sounds great!” So she ordered the roofing and I started on it, it’s an old four gable house that’s got a big valley like probably near the size of this table, of course you know battered, and heard a voice from down below. Fellow with a bicycle, and he said “Hey, are you Jim Leet?” I said “Yes.” “Telegram.” and that was the telegram that they gave me four days to get to Fort Eustis and my report was a telegram in so then it goes and they didn’t know what to do with me, they found something to do with me though. Interviewer: “Now to back up when was this? Was this now summer of 1950, of July or so?” No, ‘51. Interviewer: “ ‘51 okay, alright I guess– You have an itinerary or some notes written down in places in the documents you had and it looked like 1950 was when that started and when �Leet, James you got that message to go to Fort Eustis because the Korean war starts in June of 1950. Okay, do you remember hearing about that at the time?” Yes, yes. Interviewer: “Okay, and did it occur to you that you might get involved in that?” Not really actually I was still on furlough then. Interviewer: “So Uncle Sam found you.” Yeah, they found me. Interviewer: “Alright, so now– Okay you’ve been called to Fort Eustis, so what did they do with you after you got there?” (19:55) Not enough, not much except shuffle me around, they gave me a full duffle bag and I think it was probably the next day that it happened, at night actually. The supposedly organize groups and I was in one unit long enough to set my bag down and pick it up again and you had no idea where were and finally things settled down and higher up say “Go be here.” Or whatever. Oh well, they had to follow somebody, went down to the train station “What about the trucks?” Then take the trucks over to Fort Lee and trained from there, northern route I’d already been on the southern route. Interviewer: “So this is across the country?” Right, to Seattle and I don’t remember going on land freely and like I said I really think that people just went on the way. Interviewer: “Were you in a unit now, had they formed–” �Leet, James Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, so what unit were you in?” 714th, TROB, this says 12th. Interviewer: “That’s a 712, but that one’s wrong?” Not entirely. Interviewer: “Okay, alright but basically it’s a railroad transportation battalion now that you’ve been assigned to and where are they sending you to?” Well I think we probably didn’t know wherever we were going but we left, our first day out was a little rough but we landed in Japan, although don’t think– We may have stopped in Hawaii but not to stay, we didn’t get off the ship. (22:55) Went from there we went into Japan and nobody got off the ship there but we left a few, maybe a platoon I don’t know whatever, there and picked up some more troops and then we went to Pusan. Interviewer: “Okay, and when did you get to Pusan?” The next day. Interviewer: “Okay but I mean in terms of calendar do you know when you actually landed– I think you’ve got that in your notes.” It was– Interviewer: “Beginning of August now of ‘50?” Yes. �Leet, James Interviewer: “Okay, alright so at that point– And then did you know anything about the situation in Korea when you got there?” No. Interviewer: “Okay, so when you get there and you get off the boat now what happens to you?” Well this is probably near the end of June we were already in the outfit we were in and we got off the boat and vehicles traffic to Pusan Hotel, Pusan Broadway Hotel and that’s where we stayed just for a while and first information was– At that point it was just a few of us and this was during the Pusan Perimeter and on the boat, we woke up, got up, and thick fog you couldn’t see from one end of the ship to the other but it gradually came up and there’s another ship, and another one. (25:10) During the course of an hour or two there were hundreds of them out there, I found out later some were full and some were empty, whether they were going to disband or surge. Interviewer: “Okay, so they could potentially be there to evacuate people and that’s what all the extra ships were for.” I think that was determined maybe the same day or the next day because from there then we met– the Korean railroad people and out of all the names, Colonel Lee, but the room was like this, it’s an imaginary line down the middle this is their operations and this is yours. Which was fine, that worked out real good and we had to keep– Well it appeared they struggled on what to do and was to keep myself and somebody else at one station over here and they had the same set up and what we did the trains originated in the yards at that point– Actually the ending, and we would get the information, a train number and when it would leave and somehow we had to know where it was headed. There’s a double track up through all the way to Seoul, a single track on the east coast, went to Yeongdong or someplace and I still haven’t figured out how they operated that train, train’s going across– �Leet, James Interviewer: “Sightings.” So we just– And then we monitored them going up the next station up was monitored and they were just about five miles apart and there was only probably four or five stations active at that time and they would say “Trade number–” Such and such by at 02:35 or arrived and then you had the departure and you kept track of them cause they had a nature– The Koreans had a nature of slowing down and passing off the coal and things. Interviewer: “So you would keep track of how long it took them to get from one place to the next and you could figure out how fast they were going?” Right, at which you’d get on the grid, say “Hey!” Interviewer: “Alright, now how did you communicate with each other if you’re on the rail line someplace, were you using radio or telephone or wireless?” (29:08) Well it was a little radio system which they could insulate the copper wire in that– I remember, up until now I remembered the sergeant's name that used to come in and shake with us, run a cable. Interviewer: “Okay so if you tried to run telephone cable or something like that people would steal it?” Yeah, they’d probably sell it back to us. Interviewer: “Alright, now what– So were you based– So you were not yourself then based in Pusan, you would be out someplace else along the railroad or would you normally be in Busan?” �Leet, James Main station I never left, when I got as far as Taegu I moved up there and then went over to Andong on the east side and back up to Daejeon but first winter I was in– I think I was in Daejeon– Or pardon me seems I was in Andong but I didn’t sleep for two weeks, so went to a Swedish hospital and they put me by a pot stove and I don’t remember anything until I woke up around suppertime. I got there in the morning, late morning, and hungry but I was too late didn’t have those little snack machines or anything but I survived but they tried– They said they did everything but bounce me on the floor, did everything they could to wake me up. I must’ve spent, oh at least four or five days there and then they let me go. Interviewer: “Okay, so do you know why you hadn’t been sleeping?” I found out later I think, we moved into a woman’s school and they had dollar rooms and nice closets, not the deep but just a cot fit in there real nice but there was always a little draft coming down plus all of the mice and rats but– Because I slept before we got there and I think that’s what it was. I emptied my duffle bag, spray all the whatever out and then put the sleeping bag down and then the overcoat and stuff, the heavy stuff on the top, couldn’t sleep. (32:53) Then I have nerve enough to get dressed and go sit by the stove just to go to sleep, well I still run into that. Interviewer: “Alright, now when you got back from the Swedish hospital did you change how you slept or did you do things differently or could you sleep now?” We moved, if nothing else I’ll go out into the main room there. Interviewer: “So what did you do when you’re in Korea, what were you doing day by day? I mean was it just going on duty and checking trains, I mean what was a typical day like?” I was 12 on 12 off except every other weekend or on Sunday it was 16-8 and 8. I don’t know, never did much but walked on Pusan. No, I don’t remember even playing card, must’ve been reading. �Leet, James Interviewer: “Okay, now what impression did you have of the Koreans themselves?” Well first of all thrifty, got a new cigarette lighter, one simple, put it right there, when it’s light enough to see “Where’d it go?” Every time they’d walk right in, you wouldn’t hear them but some of them you’d get to know. Interviewer: “Well did you work with any of them or did you have them working on bases where you went?” The communication was not there and I don’t really remember associating with them except once when they cut our lines, I got on the phone I said “Mouse on our tail, mouse on G.I” That’s as far as you had to go and I talked to one of our guys he said “Okay.” “Thank you.” There was nothing frictional between– You know just that I know of in– Not necessarily units we had at each town– Not– At the designated towns they had major stations at maybe 30-35 miles apart but there’s other little stations between and in the beginning the front line moved just a little bit and encompass another little town, a place where there might be a sighting and then we’d operate that way. (37:00) Interviewer: “Now in the time you’re there when you land in the middle of 1950 and the Americans and South Koreans have been pushed back to the area around Pusan and that perimeter and then in September they start pushing back out and going north and MacArthur lands at Incheon–” Before that. Interviewer: “Well it was kind of attacking that most of the real larger scale movement starts about the same time as the Incheon landing at least in terms of– But basically regardless after you got there they could keep pushing forward and so you were adding stations. Okay, now eventually though the American forward forces get well up into North Korea and then they get chased back out again and the Chinese and North Koreans start �Leet, James coming back into South Korea. Did that ever affect your operations or were you always far enough in the rear that you didn’t notice?” Well I was in 714th and we controlled the tracks up to Daejeon which is still quite a ways from Seoul and 712 took over up there. We did run a– We ran the– We kept up to the front until they moved into another territory but– What was your question? Interviewer: “Well I was just asking if you were– Your operations were affected by the communist counter attacks.” No. Interviewer: “Okay, so you didn’t have to suddenly move south or anything like that?” Well we were aware of it but because of the evacuation running on the trains. Interviewer: “Okay, how much contact or communication did you have with people back home?” (39:03) Very little, very little. Interviewer: “I mean would it just be letters?” Just with my mother and that was occasional. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and did the military provide anything to entertain you with, I mean were there movie theaters on bases that you could go to or were you just in these small groups?” �Leet, James No, we didn’t have that privilege that I recall, just the mess hall and everybody spent time there, oh and in the Korean hotel, their breakfast menu was open around the clock, I had at least four meals a day. Interviewer: “Alright, and was this all standard U.S Army food?” It was, yes. Interviewer: “Okay, so did you ever get a chance to sample any Korean food?” I was not interested. Interviewer: “Okay, alright now did you get any leave time or R&R or anything like that?” R&R. Interviewer: “Okay and where did you go for that?” (40:20) Japan. Interviewer: “Okay, and what was that like?” Oh great, got a whole week. Interviewer: “And where did you go?” Just Tokyo and I didn’t do as much scurrying around as I should have but hindsights always great. Interviewer: “Right, how did the Japanese people seem to view Americans or treat them?” �Leet, James Oh, they're great. Interviewer: “And was it easy to get around Tokyo, could you find your way around?” I didn’t do much of that either, I kind of relaxed although, you know that was probably a misnomer, this was designed for the troops but that was– Next question. Interviewer: “Okay, it was just a nice break from being in Korea. Okay, now when you went to Korea did you have an understanding of how long you were going to be there?” No. Interviewer: “Okay, how long did you wind up staying there?” Eight months extended, typical was 17 months. Interviewer: “Okay, because they had– During the Korean war they did get to a point where a lot of combat troops would be in for probably not more than 12.” (42:10) Oh yeah. Interviewer: “But you were– Because you were in a support unit then you might potentially stay longer but in this case you stayed a shorter period of time. Okay now when you think about the time you spent in Korea, I mean I guess are there other memories or impressions that you got that you haven’t brought into the picture yet?” No but to back it up to Pusan, I was there about a week and someone relayed information say we got a car of ambulatory down there and the guys might need help. They happen to view my outfit from Oakland, they recognize me being the mail clerk and they were not clean and class A uniforms, so this’ll do, one size. When they told you their name then you could relate but– �Leet, James Interviewer: “Now were they a combat unit?” No that’s where– That was the problem when the war broke out they shipped everybody over there, if I had a rifle or anything such basic, most of them are like desk jobs and you know put them in the midst of an aggression. Interviewer: “Right because they had to fill out the ranks of the combat units they were sending over and they scraped up whatever personnel they could find in Japan and on the west coast and just sent them over. Okay, so they were put into combat units?” Oh yes, that’s all that was left but the bulk disarmament was from Japan, of course I’m not directly related to their functions while in Japan but I’m sure it was like stateside. Interviewer: “Well sure because the unit you were with I mean you were supposed to be repairing PT boats or that was the original idea. So yeah well they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Okay, so you kind of got lucky there.” (44:50) Oh I’ve been lucky all the way. Interviewer: “Alright, now how did you find out when you were going home?” Well probably by order. Interviewer: “Okay, now were you kind of going home by yourself or was the whole unit gonna go at the same time?” You know that whole area is misty, I can’t remember. Interviewer: “Okay, so when you went back home did you go on another ship? Did you go by sea to get back to the states?” �Leet, James Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and do you remember anything about that voyage?” Well one big part was going under the Golden Gate Bridge, I expected an uproar, you could hear a pin drop, very quiet. Interviewer: “Do you remember if men from your unit were sailing home with you?” Pardon me? Interviewer: “Were men from your unit sailing home with you?” Yes, but there was not very many men to start with. Interviewer: “Yeah, about how large was your battalion?” (46:30) Well very small, at most two men or four if it was– Interviewer: “Okay well that’s not a battalion that would be a pe….” That’s per station and well it builds on– We had I guess– If I had that little map I could– We only went up as far as Daejeon. It’s Daejeon and Taegu and Masan, one time [unintelligible] but– Interviewer: “So you had all– So if you had all the battalion together would you have a hundred men or 60 or 80?” 4-16-20 I’ll say a neighborhood of 30. Interviewer: “Okay, yeah so that is a very small unit.” �Leet, James But they don’t– We had replacements and so the original number, I think it was probably about 15, 20. Interviewer: “Okay, alright now when you got back to the states did you still have time left on your enlistment?” No, I was extended. Interviewer: “Okay you’ve been extended just to stay in Korea as long as you were. Alright so then I guess on your record here you indicate you’re actually discharged in the end of March 1952. Is that when you got back to the states or did you get back a little earlier than that and this is how long the processing took?” Oh processing was– Right along. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and then– So were you actually discharged in California or did they send you back to a base in the midwest to discharge you?” (49:00) I was discharged in Michigan. Interviewer: “Okay, Fort Custer?” Custer, coming back we landed in the city of central Augusta. Interviewer: “Okay, now once you get back home– Okay you’re out of the Army now what do you do?” I did nothing for maybe a week, my neighbor approached my mother, says something to the effect of “Is Jim looking for work?” And she came and asked me and I went right next door, gave me employment and an interview and a job, took about 10, 15 minutes. �Leet, James Interviewer: “Okay and what kind of job was it?” Drafting. Interviewer: “Okay, had you had training for that?” I did it in school. Interviewer: “Okay, and did this lead to a career of some kind or did you try different things?” I stayed on that for six, seven years and somebody– The leader of the Instrument Department came over and he says “Got an offer.” He says “Would you be interested in joining our group?” Which was five guys and he said “You’d be training, and learning, and maybe go to school and you can go back whenever you want.” I did all that in the state till I retired. Interviewer: “Alright, now to look back at the time that you spent in the military do you think that that affected you at all or did you learn anything from it?” (51:41) No, I learned things that I didn’t want to, vileness, even overseas when you’re working but the only real activities is that you gotta pick up a call, or you gotta call somebody else and it’s not happening that fast, you can’t get worn out maybe mentally but there’s no head rush. Interviewer: “Okay, so you decided you didn’t like that.” Well, yes I did, I certainly did like it. Interviewer: “It was a bad habit then. Okay, but otherwise you don’t really figure that– In a way just being in the Army was kind of just another job?” �Leet, James Well yes, I raised my right hand– Interviewer: “And there you were.” So I belong to you. Interviewer: “Alright, well it gave you steady employment anyway for several years when you were looking for it. Alright, okay I guess I’ll close this out now and just say thank you very much for coming in and sharing the story. Oh, you got something else?” Oh I already mentioned it, I’m good. Interviewer: “Okay, thank you.” � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeetJ2180V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leet, James Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-11 Title A name given to the resource Leet, James (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Description An account of the resource James Leet was born in Manistee, Michigan in 1930 and graduated from Manistee High in 1947 after which he spent a year doing carpentry work. In 1948 Leet enlisted in the Army and was sent to Fort Knox for eight weeks of basic training, after which he was sent to Fort Eustis, Virginia for training exercises as a shipfitter for four weeks. For regular duty Leet was sent to Oakland Army Base, California where he became a mail clerk, but took a brief furlough. During this time Leet received his orders to return to Fort Eustis and join the 714th Battalion, a railroad transportation battalion. After a stop in Japan, Leet’s battalion headed to Busan, South Korea in August of 1950 where he worked manning railroad stations. While working Leet visited cities such as Taegu, Andong, and Daejeon during his eight months in Korea. He was discharged at the end of March in 1952 at Fort Custer. After the Army, Leet worked doing drafting until he was approached to join the Instrument Department which he worked with until he retired. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6bb3e68de6f2e8b9ec2854638fb74fd4.mp4 743c481fb57a9b878be9b541ec82776e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05ddb4d0de373cfe0ade4377f4b1c6e0.pdf ead74ecd56460825af1b14a01e1b7555 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Harold LeFurge (48:25:27) Childhood • (00:32:06)born in Lansing, MI, lived in Lansing until the age of twelve; the family then moved to Grand Ledge, about ten miles west of Lansing, where he went to high school; graduated form high school in 1944 • (01:17:22)he was fourteen years old at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and he wondered "where's Pearl Harbor"? • (01:32:26)Lefurge's mother thought the war would be over before any of her sons would not have "to go" [into the military] but he and one of his three brothers did In The Navy • (02:04:00)he joined the navy "right out of high school"; you could either volunteer for one of the branches of the military at that time or you would be drafted; LeFurge chose the navy because he thought he would never have to dig a fox hole in the navy; also, "the food was better" [in the navy] • (02:48:28)he went to "Great Lakes" [the Naval Training Station in Great Lakes, IL] near Chicago for basic training; basic training was increased to ten weeks in July of '44, from five weeks; after the ten weeks, he went on leave for two weeks o there were "hundreds" at Great Lakes, but perhaps fifty to one hundred in the barracks building with him o their instructor was a chief petty officer; training amounted to lots of marching and basic seamanship, but not much with rifles • (05:20:13)how he got to Great Lakes: he traveled on a troop train many from his home town: "probably most of my graduating class, a lot of them, went in the navy," and he "saw some of 'em later on on ships out there the Pacific" • (06:22:14)he left Great Lakes in October of '44 and went to Philadelphia for assignment o he was sent to Fort Pierce in Florida for "small boat," amphibious training, where he learned how to operate landing craft; o from Fort Pierce, he went to Norfolk, VA for more training—Little Creek, near Norfolk • (08:01:15)LeFurge ended up a third class petty officer in the navy: communications, a signalman • (08:43:14)in Philadelphia, he was assigned to a newly-built ship, built in Evansville, IN • they picked up the LST in Evansville, "took it down the Ohio [River] to the Mississippi [River] and to Gulfport on the Mississippi • (09:43:10)the LST was a three-hundred-sixty-foot landing craft for transporting tanks, big guns, and troops, and it had bow doors that opened, of course; he was on LST 1103, with a crew of two-hundred and fifty; "maybe a third of the crew was experienced" �• • (11:54:04)it was crowded on the ship: he slept and ate in a compartment with about fifty other room, they slept in bunks stacked three high, and there was a big closet to put things in (13:01:24)as a signalman, LeFurge's duties included communication on light: search light, morse code was on the light, ship to ship, and ship to shore communication; there was also flag hoisting, and he had to know what [flag] combination designated a particular signal; he had to memorize things from signal books and code books; after about six months he passed the tests to become a petty officer Headed For The Pacific • (14:38:04)at Gulfport, MS they picked up an LCT, a smaller landing craft, then sailed through the Panama Canal into the Pacific, and on to Hawaii and Pearl Harbor • (15:45:17)the Panama Canal: "you just go through singly," it is not wide, one could reach “over here and touch the side of it”; it took his ship three to four hours to get through the canal • (17:32:02)Pearl Harbor: he did not see many effects of the bombing, "they had it pretty well cleaned up" by that time; the Arizona and Utah were there "sticking up" from the water • (19:28:00)his ship resupplied at Pearl Harbor, to take things to the islands; though the main battles were over, there was still "some fighting" however, and they took on replacement troops From Pearl Harbor To Okinawa • (20:28:10)they visited the Marshall Islands, the Carolines, then went north to Saipan, Okinawa, Iwo Jima; they got there after the main battles, and did not go ashore • (22:01:28)some Japanese generals had administration and families on Iwo Jima; told that the conquering Americans would torture and kill them, they committed suicide by jumping over a "big cliff"; "suicide was big to those people" • (23:47:03)he made a number of trips between Pearl Harbor and the islands; his ship got to Okinawa in the middle of 1945 • (24:26:27)"any ship out there was there for the invasion of Japan"; "I know that my ship would have been one of the first ones in the invasion of Japan, and those Japanese people, they wouldn't give up." • (25:25:14)"Mr. Truman was my friend." [for having the atomic bombs dropped] • (25:31:12)they celebrated the Japanese surrender by "going ashore on this island" [near Okinawa]; they were not allowed to drink on the ship, but they were given "4% beer"; they played softball and drank beer His Experiences With The Japanese • (26:27:16)they picked up Japanese military families from some of the islands and got them out of there “so they wouldn't start another fight"; they loaded them onto �• • • • • • • • the ship and transported them back to Japan—this operation took two or three weeks" the Japanese rode on the tank deck [of the ship], where they laid down their mats the Japanese fed themselves: "we had this big kettle," and "they made their own rice, boiled their own rice and fish” the Americans built restrooms for their Japanese guests, for women on the port side of the deck, and for men on the other side of the deck; but the Japanese "didn't care, one used the other" (28:11:15)"I talked with some, on the main deck, where the kettle was" [LeFurge says of the Japanese on the ship] he would ask them, "What's your problem, what's your problem?" the Japanese did not like to talk about it however—"I suppose they feel guilty" [LeFurge] (28:41:25)LeFurge's explanation for Japanese militarism: Japan is small, overpopulated, "one reason why they were so militaristic, "and they wanted more land for their people (29:07:17)he met a young German women after the war, when he was back home and tried to have a conversation with her, asking "why did you people do that", but she "wouldn't talk about it"; they "claimed they didn't know" about it (30:17:21)he does not have "anything against individual Japanese" but feels that they haven't changed much [by the time of the interview] though they are "not as bad"; he does not want "anything to do with 'em" [the Japanese] as a group; and this is "the feeling," according to LeFurge, of "not just the military [American] at that time" but of civilians too: "they don't like those people" [the Japanese] (31:00:26)the attack on Pearl Harbor was a "sneak attack" and "they're cowards" Between The Wars • (31:45:28)he got out of the navy in the spring of 1946 • he would not "want to do it again" but he is glad he had a chance to do it • (32:26:10)he and his wife were in Hawaii "a few years ago," and they wanted to fly to Peleliu, in the Palau or Belau group of islands [the far-western Caroline Islands]—he had not been able to get off the ship there while in the navy—but to fly there in the present time would be "just like buying a house and a car" so he “forgot about it” • (34:11:13)LeFurge was discharged from the navy in April of 1946 o one had to have "so many points to get out": one got points for years in the military, years overseas; he waited from October of '45 until May of '46 to get out • (34:57:01)his ship returned to the US, to Charleston, South Carolina, in March of 1946; the ship was then decommissioned • (35:20:15)after WWII LSTs were used for oil storage "down on the gulf"; the Logan, which he was on during the Korean War, was scrapped • (35:53:14)he was in the Korean War for a year and a half • (35:59:02)after WWII, LeFurge went into "active reserve" [navy] with a chance of recall • (36:21:22)after leaving the navy, LeFurge "came home": his parents lived in �• Lansing (MI) (36:29:07)he got a job, and he worked for Greyhound [the bus line] for forty years; he worked in the accounting and ticket offices Korean War • (37:18:26)from Philadelphia, he was sent to San Francisco, where he was assigned to an "APA," auxiliary personnel attack • (37:55:03)the Logan [LeFurge's ship] was an amphibious transport vessel: it carried twenty-six boats for ferrying men ashore and back • (38:33:14)he arrived in Korean "close to the end of the war," in the spring of 1953, and too late for the main amphibious landings; they took relief troops to Korea, from Pearl Harbor and other islands, both army soldiers and marines • (39:52:05)living conditions on the Logan were the same as on the LST in WWII: "we always ate good" � the bad part about it: the Japanese would attack ships early in the morning before people got up, so they had GQ, "general quarters," at 4 a.m. � his general quarters station was up on the signal bridge � ***Mr. LeFurge may have been referring to incidents in WWII, in the comments immediately above, not the Korean War, but they have been recorded in the order spoken.*** Family Life • (40:50:21)he and his wife Lorraine have been married for fifty and a half years (at the time of the interview) • (41:00:11)he met her five or six years after the Korean War; he was introduced to Lorraine by a co-worker and his wife in the Greyhound bus station where he was working ***Mr. LeFurge probably met Lorraine after WWII, not after the Korean War, since his marriage took place about a year after he returned to the US from Korea, or so he says.*** • (42:17:27)LeFurge has six children, and none of them "were on anything" or even smoked cigarettes: he kept them from smoking cigarettes by offering to give each of them fifty dollars if they did not smoke until reaching the age of twenty-one � one is in Florida, one is in Annapolis, MD, and one is in San Francisco � the other three live in the area [in Michigan]: one is a teacher, one has a master's degree in business, and the other is a homemaker � his oldest daughter and her husband have lived in Saudi Arabia and Thailand • (44:13:26)he has six grandchildren and one great-granddaughter who will be two years old in December [in relation to the time of the interview] How He Came To Grand Rapids From Lansing �• • (45:12:21)he had worked for Greyhound for thirty years, when "they decided they were gonna do this and do that and they weren't makin' enough money and all that junk that goes on to this day"; Greyhound was going to downsize and they offered him a choice of either Flint or Grand Rapids, and he chose Grand Rapids (45:57:25)he spent a couple of months living in the YMCA while looking for a house in Grand Rapids; he met with a realtor every night and finally found the house in Wyoming, where he has now lived for twenty-eight years [at the time of the interview] On His Life and War Experiences • (46:51:23)he believes he has been fortunate in life and to have been married to a "nice woman" for fifty years and hasn't "regretted a day of it"; he raised six kids who "didn't get into trouble or anything" • (47:46:26)LeFurge, in response to the interviewer's expressed hope that students in the future, watching the video, will learn about what life was like during WWII and afterward and lean more about history: "learn how to get along with these wars we have now" • (48:25:27)he was about to be drafted, so he joined the navy: "you had to do somethin'" � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeFurgeH Title A name given to the resource LeFurge, Harold W. (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource LeFurge, Harold W. Description An account of the resource Harold LeFurge served in the US Navy in both WWII and the Korean War. On an LST ship during WWII, he sailed to the Marshall Islands, the Carolinas', the Northern Mariana Islands, and to Okinawa. The main battles were over by the time LeFurge got there, but his ship carried supplies to the islands, and transported Japanese military families living on the islands back to Japan. Late in the Korean War, his ship transported American relief troops, army and marines, to Korea from Pearl Harbor and other Pacific islands Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Vanderlinde, Dean M. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-10-21 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives