444 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2eecfedc8cfa37591656e659e6b8f103.pdf d12f3dff5c57787a9ea83ddead024ef1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley's Johnson Center announces nation's first community philanthropy chair Posted on August 13, 2013 Grand Valley State University President Thomas J. Haas has announced the establishment of a new faculty chair position focused on community philanthropy within Grand Valley’s Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy. “We are tremendously grateful for the opportunity to establish the first chair in community philanthropy in the country,” Haas said. “The Johnson Center is one of the nation’s largest university-based philanthropic centers, and this gift enables it to continue its history of excellence and expand its outreach to communities.” The W.K. Kellogg Community Philanthropy Chair will honor the legacy of philanthropy and civic investment of W.K. Kellogg, founder of the Kellogg Company and W.K. Kellogg Foundation in Battle Creek, Michigan. The chair was established with a $1.5 million gift from the W.K. Kellogg Foundation and the Kellogg Company 25-Year Employees’ Fund. The individual who will assume the new chair position at Grand Valley will help communities understand their philanthropic landscape and emerging best practices. It is anticipated that partners will include private and corporate donors and the non-profit sector. “This is a distinctive chair for the field of philanthropy,” said James Edwards II, director of the Johnson Center. “With the addition of this chair, along with the existing Frey Chair for Family Philanthropy, the Johnson Center and Grand Valley are contributing transformational resources, research, and expertise to the sector.” The Johnson Center is an Academic Center at Grand Valley State University that works locally, nationally, and internationally with foundations, other grantmakers and nonprofits to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the charitable sector. http://www.gvsu.edu/gvnow/index.htm?articleId=B156264D-F337-E05A-D2F629589AFB146A&print=true � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Our State of Generosity Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy Description An account of the resource Collection contains the records of four Michigan nonprofit organizations: Council of Michigan Foundations, Michigan Nonprofit Association, Michigan Community Service Commission, and the Johnson Center for Philanthropy at GVSU. The documents are compiled by the Johnson Center for Philanthropy, and records document the history of the organizations from the 1960s to the 2010s. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1968-2014 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/515">Our State of Generosity collection, JCPA-04</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy Council of Michigan Foundations Michigan Nonprofit Association Michigan Community Service Commission Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy Charities Philanthropy and Society Fundraising Records Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Council of Michigan Foundations; Michigan Nonprofit Association; Michigan Community Service Commission Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-04 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-04_OSOG_JCP_2013-08-13_Kellogg-Community-Philanthropy-Chair Title A name given to the resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy 2013-08-13 Kellogg Community Philanthropy Chair Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Johnson Center for Philanthropy Subject The topic of the resource Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy Charities Philanthropy and Society Fundraising Records Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49407 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/515">Our State of Generosity collection, JCPA-04</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-08-13 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df3e5c3676a098af17f518632436f2d7.m4v 2a2e63c4c95f244bedb8f5e9ad444e8f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/378579d5a92baa4b0cca70b8db303f2b.pdf a99d64538a54e2baefca924d4ce311d7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project TJ Johnson Cold War – Vietnam War Era 1 hour 16 minutes 28 seconds (00:00:48) Early Life -Born in Chicago, Illinois, on October 19, 1952 -Seventh child out of a total of nine -Tight-knit family and they took care of each other -Remembers the first time he became aware of social problems in Chicago -His brother witnessed some boys stealing instruments from their church -Brother told on the boys, the boys found out, and they promised to retaliate -This was TJ’s first memory having to be on the defensive when he left home -As he got older he became more aware of people fighting in the street -He was in the choir and was an alter boy -Family lived in a two bedroom apartment -Had his siblings, a cousin, and an uncle living with them too -Father got a promotion (or a new job) which allowed them to move into a house -Stayed for a year and then his father went bankrupt -Moved to the LeClaire Courts low-income housing project in west Chicago -A lot of gang activity in the area -Had four bedrooms, but multiple families lived in one apartment -Lived there from the 5th grade through high school -Graduated from high school in 1969 (00:07:06) Young Adult Life -Went to Winston-Salem State University -Saw it has chance of getting away from the gangs and other unrest -Brother was in the Blackstone Rangers -Race riots, emergence of Black Panthers, and the Democratic Convention Riot in 1968 -Had experienced severe racial tension in school -Went to a school with 3,000 white students and only 300 black students -Every spring there was racial violence -Got homesick and couldn’t keep up with the classes -Dropped out after his first semester -Worked with his former basketball coach to start a basketball program at a Chicago school -Did that for two years -Brother came home from Vietnam with a drug addiction -Stole some things from the school leading to TJ getting fired -Worked as a bus driver until a passenger threatened TJ with a pistol -Decided that he didn’t want to get killed on the job (00:12:27) Enlisting in the Army -One of his friends suggested that they join the Army -Recruiter promised them bonuses, promotions, and any job they wanted -At the time he had a fatalistic outlook about life -He’d either get killed in Chicago, or get killed in Vietnam -In August (1972?) his friend decided not to enlist, but TJ went ahead with it -Vietnam War veterans told him his life would change for the worse �-Taken by bus to the airport -Remembers the bus got stuck in traffic near a liquor store -He jumped off the bus and bought a bottle of liquor to pass around on the bus (00:17:10) Basic Training -Stayed at a receiving station for three or four days of processing -Getting his head shaved, doing paperwork, and meeting the other recruits -Taken to Fort Polk, Louisiana, on a cattle truck -Had to stand up during the ride -It was hot and crowded -Arrived at Fort Polk where they were greeted by drill sergeants screaming at them to get off the truck -At that time drill sergeants were still allowed to hit recruits -Fell into formation -TJ was cracking jokes and one of the drill sergeants heard him -The drill sergeant, a massive black man, confronted TJ -TJ was placed in charge of the men in his barracks -If they misbehaved TJ would be punished -Told the expectations of a soldier -Did drills in the morning -He was made the Physical Training Non-commissioned officer -Led the other recruits on their runs -Ran five miles every day -Enjoyed being in charge -Had to pass a series of tests to go onto Advanced Individual Training -One of the tests was a land navigation course -Placed in the woods at sundown and told to get back to base -He started walking and became the de facto leader of his platoon -Supposed to be back to base by midnight, and at 2 a.m. they were still in the woods -TJ was leading the men, so when he fell off a six foot ledge the rest of the men followed -Eventually, the black drill sergeant found them and led them back to base -Proud of TJ for leading the men and getting them all back to base (00:25:26) Advanced Individual Training -The Army needed men for the infantry and the field artillery -He volunteered for the field artillery -Took a test and scored high enough to be a surveyor -Survey teams went in the field to gather data for artillery coordinates -Trained at Fort Hood, Texas -Part of the 1st Battalion of the 92nd Field Artillery Regiment -It didn’t have a survey section, so he was made the acting Staff Sergeant (E6) -Meant he was second in command of his platoon -Rumors that they would be sent to West Germany or Vietnam -There were fights between troops returning from Vietnam and new soldiers -Created “Combat Football” (contact soccer) to build morale and channel aggression (00:32:15) Race Relations in the Army -He worked as the Race Relations Non-commissioned Officer for his unit -On June 19 (“Juneteenth”) the black soldiers wanted to celebrate the holiday -Note: June 19, 1865: Oldest known celebration of emancipation and end of the Civil War -TJ went to General George Patton (IV) to get approval for the holiday -After a racist tirade General Patton allowed for the celebration of the holiday -TJ had historical workshops, and only a few soldiers showed up �-Rest of the men went into town to drink -Decided to drive up to Hippie Hollow (near Ft. Hood) with a few friends -A few black soldiers got caught stealing from a PX (military general store) -TJ was placed in charge of guarding them until transfer to Fort Leavenworth -Guarded them for 30 days and wound up bonding with them -Black and white soldiers self-segregated -Had to be in charge of black and white soldiers that hated each other -If a black soldier associated with white soldiers he was an “Uncle Tom” -On another occasion TJ went up to close the day room on base -A group of black soldiers refused to leave -He tried to threaten them with jail and an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment) -He grabbed a cue ball and a pool cue to fend off the other soldiers -One of them hit TJ in the head -He went to get the officer on duty -Officers were allowed to have a sidearm -Soldiers followed him and the officer couldn’t bring himself to shoot -One of them stabbed TJ with a broken pool cue -He decided to leave and was taken to the hospital -Military Police asked him about his side of the story -Command decided to ignore the incident -The black soldiers deserted anyway (00:43:56) Training in West Germany -Sent to West Germany for six months of training -Trained every day, all day -Behaved like you were at war -Went out on maneuvers every day -Had daily strategic meetings -A German colonel wanted TJ’s survey team to get coordinates for mortars -Seemed pointless to do a survey for mortars, but he had orders -He was able to do it without his full team and the equipment -Surveying for mortars didn’t require that level of specificity -Colonel yelled at him for not taking it seriously and being disrespectful -TJ argued his point which got him thrown in a German brig -US couldn’t help him -TJ’s commanding officer went over the chain of command to get TJ out -While in Germany he learned that non-commissioned officers were cornerstone of Army command (00:50:25) End of Service -Returned to Fort Hood, Texas -Asked if he wanted to reenlist -Offered $30,000 and promotion to Sergeant First Class -Decided when it was time, he would reenlist because he didn’t want to return to Chicago -Things started going downhill at Fort Hood -One of his men had a nervous breakdown and received a Section 8 medical discharge -Decided not to reenlist and left the day before his enlistment ended -Technically AWOL, but the Army decided not to press charges -Had money taken from his separation check, but got an honorable discharge -He was ready to be done with the Army -Burned his uniform -Sick of the arbitrary decisions made by the Army and the favoritism �(00:53:37) Army Reserves -Decided to stay in the Army Reserves -Trained once a month, and two weeks a year -All the good of the Army without the complications and bureaucracy -Able to still serve his country and be a leader of men -Satisfying a feeling instilled in him since basic training -Remembers the first time he had to make a leadership decision -In basic training there was a recruit that just couldn’t be a soldier -Threat to himself and to others -Made the call to have him discharged without incident -Taught him to make hard decisions for the sake of his soldiers (00:56:38) Reflections on Service -Being in the Army makes a deep psychological impression on a person -Connection to a weapon and to kill on command -Connection with other soldiers -Difficult to come out of the Army and be a civilian -Lacked the regimen and discipline of the Army -Difficult to connect with civilians -Instilled in him a strong survival instinct -Able to sleep leaning on his rifle, or take a bath using water in helmet -Taught him to grow up and be responsible for himself and others -Finds civilian life to be impersonal compared to life in the Army -Have to go through the proper channels to deal with a problem (01:02:04) Life after the Army -Eligible for VA benefits if injured in the service regardless of context of injury -Didn’t want to take the benefits because he didn’t want to be connected to the government -Took the GI Bill and went back to college at Southwest Missouri State University -Had a drinking problem and a lack of focus -Moved to Sparta, Missouri, to live with one of his friends from the Army -Ultimately dropped out of college -Worked for a year and got fired -Went to the VA for a few therapy sessions, but felt annoyed instead of relief -Moved back and forth between Chicago and Missouri -Felt anxious and miserable -He had money, but no direction or satisfaction -Tried out for the Chicago Bears then tried out for the San Diego Chargers -Too old for the Chargers, but decided to stay in San Diego -Transferred to the Reserve unit in San Diego -Felt comfortable being in San Diego due to its military environment -Had health problems and a World War II veteran advised him to go to the VA -It took a fellow veteran to convince him to do that -Within a month he started receiving benefits -He was homeless and disabled which got him multiple significant benefits -Income-based rent for housing -Alcoholics Anonymous to help with his drinking problem -Therapist and a social worker -Got a career, lost weight, started traveling, and attended therapy -Now helps troubled, younger soldiers to give them direction -He’s proud of his service now and isn’t ashamed to talk about it � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonA1932V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Antonio Earl (Interview outline and video), 2016 Description An account of the resource TJ Johnson was born in Chicago on October 19, 1952. Due to growing up in a challenging and often dangerous environment he decided to enlist in the Army (most likely August 1972). He received basic training at Fort Polk, Louisiana, and field artillery training at Fort Hood, Texas. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion of the 92nd Field Artillery Regiment at Fort Hood, Texas. He served as the acting staff sergeant in his unit and also served as a surveyor (gathering coordinates for artillery batteries) and the race relations non-commissioned officer. He served in West Germany for six months of field maneuvers. TJ completed his enlistment at Fort Hood, but remained in the Army Reserves (most likely until the late 1970s). Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Antonio Earl Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-03-17 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cc902dc392f39df636d88e81de435269.MP4 b4f853f83530208d3e29284f87a748a9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/28d144a8139424b34d1f5cdd542fd770.pdf 4f8cab734c7ab9849b70feb91a3345ec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Civilian: Bruni Johnson Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Sarah Schneider and Grace Balog Interviewer: We’re talking today with Bruni Johnson of Palatine, Illinois and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Now, Bruni is a civilian who lived in Germany during and after World War Two so we’re recording that side of the story rather than a veteran’s story today. Okay, start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born? Civilian: I was born April 17th, 1937 in Berlin. Interviewer: Okay, and what was your family doing for a living in those days? Civilian: That is a little bit of a long story. Can I tell you that? Interviewer: Sure. Civilian: Actually, my father used to own a toy and doll factory in a southern part of Thueringen. He is an artist. Interviewer: And Thueringen is a province in Germany? (00:00:55) Civilian: Yes, and Thueringen, or Thuringia, is, you know, in the middle of Germany. It has a beautiful black forest. And my father’s business was declining naturally because people didn’t have money and they spend their money more on food than anything else. However, he did get a big order from the United States. He did make a very huge shipment to the United States. That was, I can’t tell you exactly the time, but it must have been around 1932, 1933. And because we �had then our leader, Führer Hitler, he refused to pay to the United States government money that the United States government claimed we owed them for the first World War. I don’t know the story, I can’t tell you the facts, but that is what I know. And hence there was a president during that time, he felt that the United States people, or businesspeople, did not have to pay the bills. That was a death shock for my father; he lost his business. He had to then move to Berlin and became, out of necessity because nobody was interested in art, he created art from sugar. In other words, he made very elaborate, beautiful creations from flowers and whatever you can think of made out of sugar, marzipan, and chocolate. That somehow left his job at a very famous entertainment and restaurant, called Wintergarten, in the middle of Berlin. And he became the general manager for a short while and then he became very famous for his creations so he was asked to teach that in a school, a vocational school or college. And that’s what he did and actually he stayed with that job until he died. He was only 74 years old when he died. And so, they lived in Berlin, but they had a very meager existence. Actually, at that time they lived in an apartment. And that apartment eventually became part of the Russian occupation, but we should go one step at a time. (00:03:50) Interviewer: Right, you should. Okay, now how many children were in your family? Civilian: We had three altogether. My sister, she was born in 1928 in a town called Coburg which is adjacent to the town where my parents came from because my parents had a big villa there and my father was doing well in those days. Then after they moved to Berlin, my brother was born 1933 in Berlin. And I was then born four years later. (00:04:30) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now if your father—you mentioned he had an unusual sort of job by the end but—and he was able to do that through the time of the war? �Civilian: Yes, he did that pretty much during the war. But then of course after the war there was nothing. And he then, by force of nature because of his creativity, had to learn how to make cakes and that helped us to survive. He got work then as a baker. He wasn’t really a baker, but we did anything we could. Interviewer: But that’s what he did. Alright, now what kinds of—now you’re still a very young girl when the war happens—what can you tell us about what you remember from that? Particularly— (00:05:24) Civilian: There is one memory that I have actually in there, written. My first memory was a very happy one. My father was enlisted in the Army for a short while, although he was not well. And I remember him coming home and I must have been two years old and people say you can’t remember that, yes, I do remember when he came home. And it must have been in 1939, 1940— no later, because he was in—already left the army. And I remember he took me to a fair and it was a very happy moment for me to see my father in a uniform, coming home, taking me to this fair, buying me candies and a balloon, or something like that. And that’s the first thing that I remember. Then, everything is a veil and I can’t remember too much about my childhood in Berlin during that time. But I know that my mother used to take me always to Thueringen, or Thuringia, to the town where she came from and we stayed with my grandmother. And eventually she—in the beginning she used to take me back home because she had to take care of my sister and my brother. But then eventually they left me there and I stayed with—first with my grandmother and after she died and the house went into the hands of one of the older brothers, I stayed with an aunt further down the hill where the house was from my grandparents. And that is the time I remember the most. My sister meanwhile—I have to say that something that is very important to me—my family was always very independent, so my sister was very independent. �We were not joiners, we didn’t join the boy scouts, girl scouts, or whatever. And my sister refused to join the youth movement, the youth’s girl’s movement, the BDM. Interviewer: So, the Hitler Youth. Yep. (00:07:38) Civilian: However, she eventually was forced to go to a—what they called a labor camp. That’s not a labor camp prison type, that is where they used to send young women to learn how to cook and sew and become good German housewives. And my brother was by then, which—I remember he was born in 1933—he was in high school. And in—before, two years before the end of the war, 1943, the whole entire high school was evacuated and sent to an island in the Baltic Sea. And they had to stay there and it was actually very meager. But I remember visiting him with my mother and I remember that island, that’s all I remember about that. That school— eventually, two months—I think it was in February 1945, the school was again shipped to Denmark as refugees. But that refugee camp turned out to be a prison for them for three years. And that town is called Oksbol, it’s a very famous story. And he lived there. And I—actually, I was just reading the letters he sent from there. It’s sort of a bit of a sad story. And we had no idea where he was or whatever happened to him until the Red Cross sent us a letter and said yes, they are in Oksbol in that camp. The whole school. There were I think 250 students there. (00:09:27) Interviewer: Okay, because in February of 1945, Denmark would still have been under Nazi control. Civilian: Yes, it was. Yes, it was and there’s a newspaper article about that—that the German occupational forces were not informed that there were refugees in Denmark. I can give you that newspaper article because I just happened to read it. Interviewer: So, they didn’t…So, German refugees are being sent to Denmark and the German authorities in Denmark didn’t know they were there? �Civilian: No, they didn’t know that apparently. Interviewer: Okay. (00:10:00) Civilian: It’s a very interesting story. I have that stuff in the front room. So, that …well that, you know. Interviewer: But then once the Germans surrendered, then the Danes just kept them interned essentially for some time after that? Civilian: Well, that—you know, that became the end of the war in 1945. I mean, that didn’t really happen very long. I don’t even think they had time to bother. The soldiers were tired. There was nothing much left in the army. People were just scattered all over the place. I think it was just…everything was in shambles already. But nobody wanted to admit that, especially not the Nazis and the whatever. Interviewer: Alright, now to go back to your story. So, you spent a good part of the wartime on the family property? (00:10:49) Civilian: Yes, and I—it was a very interesting time. I was very happy although I was very lonely. I missed my parents an awful lot. And we had to…I was very happy living with my aunt. She had a beautiful big yard with a lot of apple trees, orchard, and beautiful flowers. Of course, they were taller than I was because I was very little. But as small as I was, I do remember I had to help my extended family. They were farmers. We had to work on a field. I had to dig up potatoes. Child labor they call it. I enjoyed it. And picking up corns, helping with the hay, and we had to collect herbs. Or herbs. And there were a special kind of herbs that they made tea out of for the soldiers on the front. We also had to pull out something—it wasn’t cotton because I don’t think we had that. I don’t know what we pulled out to make cotton…And I had to use my little fingers and we did that. And actually, I don’t remember being unhappy about doing any of �that work and we had to work hard. For that recompense, we got a huge slice of bread with butter on it and in the beginning, still a cup of milk and that was …we were in heaven. I was quite happy and content there. I remember my time in that town always in sunshine. But it wasn’t always sunny, it was raining but my memory doesn’t go that far. And I have that all written down actually. There is something in my personality that prevents me from remembering really bad moments. And I think that is due to my…the incredible, wonderful nature of my parents. They made us feel that it’s just the way it is. They did not make us feel that we should feel sorry there is a war. They did not make us feel that we are hungry and starving and freezing to death in Berlin. In—when I was living in the country, I always had some food and that was very nice. What do I have…What else could I…? (00:13:25) Interviewer: Well I guess when you were living with your aunt, did your aunt have any children or were you the only child there? Civilian: No, my aunt had three children, but they were not staying at that house. Only one cousin, an older cousin. And he was actually responsible because nobody really talked to me and I learned to speak very late in life at that time. But what he did, he taught me how to read and I wasn’t even in school. And they had an attic and I could sit in that attic and I could read some of the books, I mean as much as I could read, and I thought it was absolutely wonderful. It was rather primitive, the house. They built it in the last minute because my uncle used to be the gas master. They had a gas station and when that was closed, he lost his job during the war. And he built that house and it had sort of a little addition in the back that was a stable for a goat and there was also the outdoor toilet. And something that I remembered about that toilet, it was always cold in there in the winter, it was freezing. But when I was allowed to go back to East Germany to visit twenty-five or so years after the war ended, I could have sworn the same flies were still �humming in that toilet. It was the weirdest thing. And my aunt’s goat was a life saver because she used to make—she had a centrifuge—and she would make goat butter out of it and I just love goat butter for the rest of my life. And yes, we had…I had a good time. I had a little boyfriend. Actually, his mother lived up on top of the hill in that house that my uncle had taken over. And he had a very bad alcoholic stepfather who used to beat his mother. And he and I used to sit in my aunt’s garden at night and pray to the moon, we didn’t know much about God, and prayed. We prayed that his father would stop hitting his mother and I prayed that my mother would come back. I was so lonely. So basically, that’s my story. And then, I was sent back to Berlin. (00:16:00) Interviewer: Now, you had told me when we—before we did the interview, you told me a little bit about what was going on on that estate, on that property, what your uncle was doing. Civilian: Yes, I’m glad you bring that up because when my uncle took over that particular estate you can call it, it was called Bachelors, you know, a little mountain castle. And it was a beautiful big house. My Grandmother had 12 children and he was I think the third oldest or something like that and he was an engineer, he was a very smart man. And he used that estate to manufacture parts for Hitler. I didn’t know then what it was. I was under the impression always as a child that they made some sort of electronic parts. And the workers that worked there were all forced laborers. I believe they were Russian, Ukrainian, and Polish. I only talked to one of the ladies, her name was Olga, because she was Polish and she spoke some German. And she also showed me where these forced laborers had to live. Underneath the building was the stable and they had to all sleep in that stable and they were fed out of the dog dishes. But they were fed. How well? I don’t know. But I know she was always very, very sad and upset. That’s the most I can �remember. Much, much later—actually this year, I found out that there apparently was something that was manufactured is very secretive and nobody could find out what it was. I have no idea what it was. (00:17:41) Interviewer: Alright. And so then, when did you leave that area? Civilian: Yeah, I was in…back in the beginning of 1945. I do not remember when. I only remember that I was sitting on a train by myself and the train track was…the train was supposed to take me back to Berlin but it made a detour because the rail ties, you know the rail tracks, were all bombed. And at one point, the train had to stop and couldn’t continue. And I remember sitting outside, not knowing what to do, and some...somebody—some family came up to me and gave me a sandwich and they eventually took me into their home. I don’t know how long I was with them. And I stayed with them and I don’t remember much at all about that time, but I remember coming back to Berlin not speaking German. I spoke another language. I was actually…I started school in Thueringen, you know, in that part where I lived. And I was 6 years old in 1943. And we started school with those old little slate boards that you had and a, you know, a slate pen. But it lasted only about 4 weeks because then we lost our teacher. I think he was either drafter or whatever happened to them. And I didn’t have any schooling until I got back to Berlin. And then even later, much later, because we didn’t have a school in Berlin. And I arrived in Berlin. I don’t remember how, but I got back. I do remember the bombing and it was horrendous. You were constantly afraid. You constantly heard the alarm going. You saw the…you heard the hissing of the bombs. You saw what they called Christmas trees, that was phosphorous bombs that they sent down. We had to wear gas masks in the basement. I always thought I was going to suffocate with that stuff. You know, it was just a gas mask that they put on your face and you couldn’t breathe. And I to this day, my children could never understand it, I �cannot go to a fireworks. And I cannot listen to the fireworks and I cannot watch them. It’s a very scary thing that happens in your life. Even every Tuesday, the alarm goes off in our town. It frightens me because I think of the alarm stages that we had in Berlin. Interviewer: The air raid alarms, yep. (00:20:33) Civilian: And if you were on the street, you had to run and try and find a bunker or something like that. Sometimes you were left in the street and somehow miraculously you survived. And right and left, the buildings were burning and falling apart. Not in my area so much, because I was in the northern part of Berlin. Only when we went downtown to visit my father where he worked and visit my aunt who lived in the middle of—or in the city center, actually. And there was not much transportation, so you had to walk, and you’d walk for hours and we always walked. I remember even in East Germany when my mother came, food was scarce during the war and after the war. We used to walk like 2-3 hours to some mountain area where there was a forest and we used to collect blueberries. And after about a whole day of collecting blueberries, you’d have maybe a little bucket full of blueberries and you came home and they put buttermilk in it and then we ate it with boiled potatoes or something like that. Interviewer: Alright. Now you had mentioned to me before we started the interview that during one of these bombing raids, I guess the house pretty much collapsed on you? (00:21:44) Civilian: Yes, that was—that happened. That must have happened when I was—I don’t remember exactly when it happened but it must have happened before or after I came back, maybe I was home at that time for a short visit. Interviewer: So, you might have been visiting, so it might have been earlier in the war? �Civilian: Yes, and I don’t remember the year. I could have asked that gentleman that was 90 years old that told me about it. A bomb went down actually not adjacent, my parents lived in an apartment building and those have blocks. And there was a building next to our building and then there came a second building. That one was bombed and the explosion made the wall collapse that we were sitting next to, my father, my mother, and I, and we were buried. And I guess that’s where I developed allergies against dust because we lived—we stayed there three days almost because nobody knew we were buried. Nobody looked for us. My sister was in that so to speak labor camp and my brother was in Denmark, wherever. We didn’t know where he was then at that time. And…Oh no, maybe he was on the island. I do remember that. Anyways, so then they finally dug us out and unfortunately the explosion caused… I had hearing loss and nobody knew and nobody checked it. And all my life long, especially as a child, I was always told, “Oh, you don’t concentrate well” and I was—I felt stupid, dumb. I learned then, eventually, to stare at people and I concentrated very hard. I was always sitting in the front row because I couldn’t hear in the back of my classroom and nobody figured it out. I didn’t find it out until I came to the United States and went to a hearing specialist and he said, “Oh, you have had that since childhood.” Interviewer: Okay. Thank you, yeah. Okay. Do you remember being rescued from the basement or do you just know that it happened? (00:23:58) Civilian: I don’t remember that. That is the funniest thing. I don’t remember that. I only know that eventually they dug us out and life continued as usual. It was just the way it was. You lived in a war. You accepted that as a child, probably my parents felt different about it but they didn’t show it to us. They made us feel good, they were very… my mother was an extremely cheerful person. My father was very witty. And they always tried to make us feel it was a normal thing. �It’s just the way it is. And that’s why I don’t remember. Like I said, a lot of things I totally block out. Interviewer: Now, after that bombing, did your family go to a different apartment? Or just…? (00:24:42) Civilian: No, we stayed in it. It was only the basement wall that collapsed. Interviewer: Oh, okay. Civilian: And that wall happened to be actually right underneath our apartment. We lived on the first floor. How our apartment did not collapse, I have no idea. It’s a miracle to me yet. But you know when you were younger, even when I was a teenager, and dad and I went back it never occurred to me to ask—to ask anybody what happened. It was just something that, just like when I was in high school, we had history lessons until 1928 and then it stopped. You didn’t ask questions. Now, I can tell you the story much, much later when I really found out what Germany actually did. We heard about concentration camps. I remember my brother and I we used to joke as kids “Oh, if you don’t do this, I’ll put you in a concentration camp.” But we had no idea what happened in those concentration camps. I’m sure a lot of people did. But we didn’t. Interviewer: Well, you were very young at that time. Civilian: Yes, I was very young and maybe my parents knew, maybe they don’t. I don’t know. It never occurred to me to ask. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so during the war you’re kind of moved back and forth a little bit between the country and Berlin. But by early ’45, you’re back in Berlin and now you stay there until the end of the war? Civilian: Yes. (00:26:11) �Interviewer: Okay, are there any other incidents or memories or things that happened before the Russians came in that you want to bring into the story here? Civilian: Yes, I remember one incident very clearly that was shortly before the final end and the Russians were already on the outskirts of Berlin. And a young Hitler Youth came into the basement—we were sitting in the basement—and he told those people, the men, old men, sick men, old men, to come with shovels and forks, anything they could find, and go to about five minute, ten minute walk from our house there was an S-Bahn, an L station. There was a bridge and they were supposed to defend that bridge. And shortly thereafter my father comes back and he said, “We threw our shovels down. We are not going to fight with forks and shovels against the Russian tanks.” And then they came home and that was then the end. Well, before that, I only remember on April 17th it was my birthday. And it was a sunny day. My aunt came from the center of the town with my cousin and she brought me a beautiful pink necklace and we were actually happy and had some little cake or whatever we had and it was a nice day. And then a couple days, three, four days later it must have been the 21st. I don’t remember. That’s when the Russians marched in. That incident with the old men and the forks and shovels happened. And like I said, my sister wasn’t there, she was still in the labor camp. My brother was where? We don’t know. And my father and my mother and I, we were standing in front of the house watching what was happening. We all knew the war was over, for some reason. And a Russian truck stopped in front of the house and Russian soldiers came out with machine guns and they took us to our apartment and we had to line the wall and we thought they were going to shoot us. I never will forget that feeling. And…but they didn’t. But we were—we were so petrified and scared. I thought I was going to die. And shortly thereafter, another truck comes and they unloaded all the wounded Russian soldiers and they brought them into our apartment, used the �whole apartment to put the injured people there. And I remember my—our bedroom was emptied out…Wait a minute…No, that was—our bedroom was in the front and the back was the family room and I—we had a beautiful black, shiny piano there. And they put their spiritous cookers there and to make the instruments and they opened—took the dining room table and operated on the Russians. And actually, I had to watch them cut off legs and stuff for some reason. I don’t know why I was there. It was a very scary experience. And then they used our curtains, drapes, and rolled the dead bodies in them and buried them in the back yard. My mother again was incredibly courageous because those Russians that came were very poor little souls. They had no shoes on. Don’t forget they were marching. They had only rags wrapped around their feet. They didn’t know what a toilet was. They used the bathtub and then they used the toilet to wash themselves. So, my mother went in there and showed them what to do and dumped them on the toilet and took all of the dirt out of the bathtub and showed them what that was for. And that was the only thing I remember about that. It was a horrible time. And we had to live then in the basement and it was sort of provisionally repaired down there and what my parents and I felt sort of very sad about was that none of the neighbors offered us to stay in their apartments. That’s the only thing I remember. (00:30:58) Interviewer: So, the other people were all basically left alone? I mean, now— Civilian: Basically, the Russians…Yes, it was a crucial experience to have that hospital there. But in a way it saved our life. We were protected from rape. We were given food. They had what they called a goulash burner outside on the street. We got even some meat. That was usually horse meat. And they basically protected us. There was one—they had a general and I believe he was a Russian Jew because he spoke some German. He was a very elegant man and he saw the newspaper on the table and it was called the Voelkischer Beobachter, The People’s Observer, the �only paper they had and said, “Ah that paper.” And I remember that one so clearly. Eventually I think they left. What else do I remember about them…There was an incident when we, and this too is in Thueringen, a lot of women were raped. And a lot of them came then to the Russians and they helped them. They repaired them, they helped them. [she explained off camera that the “help” was in the form of performing abortions for the women and girls who had been raped by the Russians] Interviewer: Okay, so they went to the hospital? (00:32:21) Civilian: Yes, they came to the hospital. But the whole neighborhood then eventually wound up in our apartment you know for some medical service and walked away with all the dishes. You know, this is something very strange. Interviewer: So, your neighbors robbed you instead of the Russians? Civilian: The Russians did not take anything away. My parents lost all of their possessions because after my father was bankrupt and they had to give up their villa in Coburg, they had a— what do you call it…you know, from a farm…What do you call that—no. Where you store things on a farm, what do you call that? Stable? Interviewer: Yeah. Civilian: Okay, they used a stable in their town and they stored all of their valuables there. And I don’t know how close the American armies were to the concentration camps, but basically all of our possessions probably wound up on the bottom Ellison Bay. I mean not Ellison Bay, the island by, what is it called? The island by New York … Interviewer: Oh, Ellis Island. (00:33:31) Civilian: Yeah, that’s right. We don’t know it, but they were the only ones that actually robbed us blind. And then after the Russians left, they did not take anything away. Came the French. But �the French, they knew how to find whatever we had hidden in the piano. That was a piece of cloth for a winter cold and a jar of pickled rabbit because we used to have rabbits in the backyard to feed us you know and that’s about it. My—we all had to try and survive. We raised chicken in our apartment and whatever we did. Interviewer: Okay, now you had before—you have got some material that you had written down. Have we covered what you had in there? Or…? (00:34:19) Civilian: Yes, I think pretty much everything. I can only maybe read to you the beginning because I tried to put things together. “It is almost too late to try to remember my childhood. I should have taken the time to keep a diary of sorts, but never felt my life was worth remembering. Yes, I have some cherished memories, but much of my childhood in Berlin is hidden behind a grey veil. It appears that I remember mostly happy moments in my life in Germany albeit I don’t think there were that many. But I remember most as a small child is my time in Schalkau, that is that small town in Thuringia, where my mother was born and raised and married my father. And this memory is quite blissful, content, and was much sunshine even rainy days. But I only remember the rainy days sitting in my aunt’s, Tante Paula or Aunt Paula’s, small attic, reading. Feeling safe and dry and hearing the rain tapping on the roof. It never sounded threatening to me. Oh, I had some sad moments in Schalkau because I was so immensely lonely without my parents, who stayed in Berlin with my sister and brother and then they were gone. And they had to endure the constant bombing raids, but my mother was commuting back and forth and was often in Schalkau, especially when my Grandmother, my Grossmutter, was still living. The rest of memory is being hungry, being cold: very, very cold all the time. I remember the sound of the alarm, the noise of the airplanes, the hissing of the bombs, the phosphorus socalled Christmas trees, the explosions, the gas masks that made you feel like you’re suffocating, �and again the hunger, fear, running for cover, trying to find a bunker if on the road. To this day I can’t tolerate the sound and even to look at a fireworks.” Alright, that’s about basically it. (00:36:26) Interviewer: Alright. Now, let’s go to the point—we’ve gotten now to the end of the war. So, you’re—the place where you were living was in the part of Berlin that became the French zone? Civilian: Yeah, it became the French sector. Interviewer: So, you’re in West Berlin at that point? Civilian: Yeah. Well, it was… Interviewer: What would become West Berlin, there was not a wall yet. Civilian: It would eventually, you know they made it then the Russian part and then the western part. And the western part was the French, British, and American sector. And unfortunately, we were in the French sector. They were okay to us, but they didn’t really…we didn’t—we never benefitted from the air lift or anything like that because they didn’t feed us very well. Interviewer: Alright. Yeah. So, let’s kind of—let’s try to follow that a little bit. Civilian: And then actually the hunger and the fear and the freezing came after the war, worse than before. (00:37:13) Interviewer: I was going to ask that. Okay, so you’re—when they—course when the war ends, it’s sort of late spring and so the weather isn’t too cold for a while. You have summer months coming, but there’s not a lot of food… Civilian: Nope. Interviewer: …and the French come in and they don’t help. �Civilian: Well we went—we would then leave our home and go into the outside areas of Berlin and try to visit farmers. It meant if there was a train, we took a train. Most of the time we had to walk for hours and hours and we exchanged some whatever valuables against maybe some rotten cabbage and some potatoes. That basically was all the food you had. There wasn’t very much. Eventually, we got some bread and we ate our bread usually with water and then if you had sugar, you’d put a little sugar on top of it. It basically was the entire food we had for a long, long, long time. And when you boiled the potatoes, because they were rotten, you couldn’t peel them. The peel was, you know, very thinly peeled off. We collected that because once a week a farmer came with a horse drawn wagon and he had little bundles of wood because we had no heat and we couldn’t have a fire, we couldn’t cook, we had nothing, and he would exchange those poor little potato peels against a little bundle of wood. And then I remember that he always had a little bell and he said, “Brennholz fuer Kartoffelschalen,” burning wood for potato peels. That was the most exciting moment always and then we had a little bit of firewood, you know, that was…long time, but then came an extreme severe winter after that and—Oh yes! Now, I remember because I know there was something. After the Russians settled, the Americans settled and everything, I don’t remember exactly when it happened, but it was still summer time. I don’t know if it was in 1945. Possibly, because the American army established in the southern part of Berlin and there was a command officer—office—in a place called Mexikoplatz, Mexiko so square. And they needed a baker. And one day I was alone at home. The doorbell rings and again I see people in uniforms—it must have been the same year, ’45—and I was scared to hell and I pushed the door closed and I was so scared and they didn’t let me close the door and then somehow my mother appeared from somewhere. They were Americans. They wanted my father. They had heard of him because he was known through his teaching and stuff like that and he had to go with them �and work there. And he had to also take a little room down there because we had no transportation and once a week my mother would take a men’s bicycle and put me on front of that and ride the bicycle through Berlin for three or four hours and then we could visit my father and then we used to go through the…Americans were always a little bit used to spoiling things. They used to throw a lot of food out that we, you know, gathered from their garbage and then ate it, you know. It was helpful. It was very helpful to eat, you know, some old can of soup or whatever that was. (00:40:54) Interviewer: Okay. Now, was your father paid? Could he do anything to help you then? Civilian: I don’t know if he was paid money but I know he used to get bread and some food and bring it home. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: I don’t know. But it did help us survive. I am sure they must have paid him something but I—I couldn’t tell you that for sure. Interviewer: Alright. Civilian: Yeah, I do remember that after the war, one of the incidents was that we got a care package for Christmas. It was Christmastime. And I had my doll kitchen sitting in our living room. That was the only present you used to get for Christmas, was build up the doll kitchen. And a care package came and there were—was a little food in it. I believe it was a family from Texas. And four candies. And we were four at that time: my mother, father, my sister, and I. We each got a candy. And I remember taking my candy every night, I unwrapped it, sucked on it, and put it back and it lasted for a whole week. It was—it was wonderful. And then of course, they started sending in food and that was the airlift then. And yes, it was so interesting because we didn’t—we had no idea what sweet potatoes were. They were dried squares of—we thought it �was carrots. And we tried to eat it and it broke our teeth up because we had poor dental treatment. We had no treatment, period. And until we learned that we had to soak the stuff and cook it, and stuff like that, you know. We didn’t benefit too much from the airlift. Like I said, that stayed mainly in the southern part, the American sector and the British sector. The French sector didn’t get too much food there. But that’s why I think my father’s occupation actually helped us then. I don’t remember how long he worked for the American Army and I don’t remember what he did afterwards but he always worked. And somehow, it sustained us and we could get food. (00:43:06) Interviewer: At what point did he start becoming a baker? Had that happened during the war? Or was that afterward? Civilian: It must have happened…I don’t—that’s what I would like to find out or wanted to find out now when I was in Germany. When did he learn that? For—when he was working, I think, it must have still been in the Wintergarten, that restaurant. He also worked for a famous restaurant, Kempinski. And he was also there the manager for the food section there. And somehow, he along the way must have learned how to make cakes. And then he also worked for another very famous bakery in Berlin then eventually. But he was also—he was never really getting much money. We just had a bare existence. And…But he taught all the way through when it started again. School for me started much, much later than normally. I think I started school really then when I was about 8 or 9. Because I was—our grammar school was bombed out and we started school then in a factory. And it was wonderful because you—they could heat this place and it was warm. And we had a wonderful teacher and she was very encouraging. And we also got food. So, when you went to school, that is what we used to look like. We had little—I just found these marks on the paper. We all went to school, more or less dressed or not. And we had little �buckets with us and we used to bring food home. And I remember the most horrendous food was always sauerkraut soup. And then some sort of a cheese soup. It was awful. Even though you were hungry, I didn’t like it. But I brought it home for my parents and we all shared it. (00:45:10) Interviewer: Okay. Now, at the time of the airlift, did you understand much of what was going on then? Or were you worried the Russians would come back or were you not really having a sense of that? Civilian: By that time, we felt very enclosed. We felt totally…Berlin was enclosed. Nothing could come in; nothing could go out. Unless you went to the eastern part. And you felt like you were suffocating. There was no—there was not a tree left in the streets. Everything was cut down. You would use your furniture to burn in the stove so you could heat a little bit. When the airlift started, I remember very late. They start the airlift at the airport Tempelhof. And there was another one in Gatow. And they built an airport near where I lived, near Tegel, which is a very famous airport now. Well actually, the only one in Berlin right now. And they started with I think I saw one or two airplanes arriving. And I had no shoes and we all were running to the airport which was a long way to walk. And I remember I was running on the gravel, hoping I would get a candy because we all heard the Americans were throwing out candy. Well, I didn’t get one candy. By the time they came to us, there was no candy left. So, we were so disappointed. We all treaded back home very sad. Oh, another thing I remember also because it just dawns on me what we did. We had no clothes, right? So, you wanted to go swimming so you took your old socks, you unraveled the wool, and we knitted swimming suits. Two tops swimming suits, to go swimming. And then when the summer was over, we unraveled the swimming suit and knitted socks out of it again. It was hilarious, you know. Because I remember �I had one blue swimming suit that was constantly going back and forth from sock to bathing suit. Yeah, that was about it. (00:47:18) Interviewer: Must have been—must take a while to do? Civilian: You learn to knit quite fast. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: You know? Interviewer: How long did conditions stay hard? I mean, you’re like… Civilian: A long time. Berlin was really, I think, one of those cities probably not as bombed as Dresden but because we were so cut off, it took a long, long time to recover everything. I remember grammar school was horrible. We were then going—we were taught in a burned-out building. And it was sort of like a little bit repaired. And then they had a barracks outside. And we had school there. My schooling was very poor, actually. I do remember a teacher there who was very strict but then at the end, I had a very, very good teacher because he encouraged me or made sure that I and another girl were allowed to go to a high school. We were already 14 at that time. We started high school much later than the rest of the people. We had to do everything in 4 to 5 years that other people achieved in 8 to 9 years of high school. And we had to work extremely hard. And since the school was still burned—the schools were all damaged. We had to share a school in a boys’ school. There used to be a boys’ school and a girls’ school next to each other. The girls’ school was damaged. And we were the first girls in a boys’ school that started there. But we shared with the girls’ school. So, one week we had classes from…I can’t— morning to noon or 1 o’clock. And then one week, we started in the afternoon. We always had to switch school times, which was quite exhausting because when you had school in the afternoon, you came home and you had to do your homework until midnight or whatever because there was �a lot of homework to do. And it was horrendous. And yet I tell you, my most of my educational background comes from that high school. I was extremely well-educated there. (00:49:53) Interviewer: Okay. And then, how long did you stay in Berlin? Civilian: Well, after I start—I left high school, I had several options. They had just opened a university, called Free University. And I applied there and also was accepted. And I had signed up for three subjects: Germanistic, Anglistik, and Romanistic—English, German, and French, which was ludicrous. And I had to—I started with German and then I wanted to switch to the English department. They told me they didn’t have a space for me. And I had to go to England. And in order to get to England, I needed a visa. And in order to get the visa, I had to accept a job as an au pair. A lot of young people did that. And I went to a town called Croydon and I was sort of an au pair/helper for the children. I did a little cleaning in the morning and in the afternoon, I could go to college there. And I did eventually pass my lower and my higher Cambridge certificate: proficiency of English. Interviewer: Okay. (00:51:15) Civilian: Yeah. That was it. And then, I went back. Interviewer: Do you remember what years you were in England? When was that? Civilian: I think it was around 1956-1957. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: And then I came back and I had to work in Berlin, I remember, but I don’t remember why. I was still signed up for the Free University but it didn’t work out so—Oh, they told me I should go to France first. My French was so poor. I really basically didn’t know any French at all because of the little bit we had in high school was not sufficient. So, I went to France basically on the same principle but it was supported by the university. And then I ultimately stayed there �for two years. In the beginning, I started at a place called Alliance Français and then I could switch over to the Sorbonne and study there and got my certificate in French there, my certificat en français. (00:52:13) Interviewer: Okay. Now, how did the people in England and France treat you? Civilian: That was interesting. I am glad you bring this up. Never questioning anything. Nobody talked about it. I told you history lessons ended in ’28. We knew something happened. We had a lot of people that came back from concentration camps and talked to us about it. But it would— really didn’t register. In England, people were very nice to me until the very end. I met somebody that she was very nasty to me. What never occurred to me is—I always felt boy, the whole world bombed us poor Germans. It never occurred to me that we Germans bombed London. And we bombed the whole world. And that was okay. Then I came back when I was in France, I lived happily ever after. I had a boyfriend. He was a French Jewish gentleman. And he explained to me what happened and what we did. And I was in shock. I can’t even tell you that. And I remember my parents visiting me in Paris and I asked them. And I said, “Didn’t you know?” And they said, “Yes, of course we knew but we didn’t talk about it. We heard about it. We didn’t actually know while it was happening but we heard and found out much later. And when they showed us all the pictures, how terrible and what happened there.” The thing is, when I was living and I remember that before and after the war, we had—my parents had two—several friends, and two couples were Jewish. One couple disappeared. We don’t know if they moved away or what happened to them. The other couple stayed only the husband was killed in a war. But we always had the highest respect for Jewish people because they were extremely welleducated, they had their own school, and they were wealthy. At least the ones we knew. And we looked up to them. And when I heard that story, I was crushed. I was crushed. I got literally sick �to my stomach when…Andre was his name, was telling me these stories. And then I heard more and more and more about it. And it was a shocking revelation. Strange why I was so protected. Why did I not know? Although I saw these forced laborers by uncle’s factory, so to speak, but I never put two and two together. I am actually still in awe how stupid I was. That I never even questioned anything. And it shocked me. It shocks me now. And I felt guilty all my lifelong and I still feel guilt that will never go away. I know there are a lot of Germans that say, “Oh, I had nothing to do with it. I was just a child.” Well, I might have been a child but it’s my people that did that. You know? And it’s—it’s very hard to digest. (00:55:40) Interviewer: Well, we really appreciate your talking about it. I mean, that helps a lot of us on this end understand a little bit better what that was like. Civilian: Yes, I feel I had to mention that because…Actually, in our area, we had—people are prejudiced, right? My family is Lutheran. My father was actually an atheist; he didn’t go to church. But my mother was a very devout Lutheran. But we had some—a few Catholic people in our area. And you know what? We didn’t like them because they were Catholic. Just like…it’s still the same today. Interviewer: It can still happen. Alright, now you’re going out. You’re getting yourself an education. You have gone to England; you’ve gone to France and you come back again to Germany. I mean, do you now actually take courses at the university? Or do you do something different? (00:56:36) Civilian: I came back and then they said, “Well, which direction do you want to take?” And I said, “Well,” I said, “I would actually like to become a translator.” And they said, “Well, we don’t offer that.” Because I didn’t want to become a teacher. I said, “What can I do with German, English, and French? I have to become a teacher.” And I was so scared I would not find a �husband and probably stuck with a bun in my head and a dry teaching profession. And so, I switched, you know, institutions or colleges or school or whatever you would call it and I went to a translation interpretation school for two years and graduated from there. And then I got my first job actually at a bank for a short while and then I transferred to a technical company and worked there. In the meantime, I remember…Yeah, yeah. I had an American girlfriend and my parents had a Christmas party arranged at our house. And she came and she brought two young men with her, and one of them was my husband. I was engaged at that time; that’s another story. I was engaged to a German gentleman. (00:57:49) Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: And my husband—well, my future husband then, he came to the Christmas party and he was only interested in my girlfriend. She was a beautiful girl. And she was from the center of town. She was actually a friend of Romy Schneider or somebody like that. You know, she was absolutely out of my range. Anyway, he was interested but she didn’t want him. She had nothing to do with him. And he was very handsome looking. He had just been in Berlin for 4 weeks. He was drafted into the Army but he never was really a soldier. Basically, he was a musician. He would play in the United States Army Band, marching through Berlin, making people happy. And well, I didn’t think anything about it. And my sister was there with her husband. And they invited him to a New Year’s Eve party. So, here he is at the New Year’s Eve party and that was that. And then 8 months later, we married… (00:58:53) Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: …on a day that is very famous. August 13th, 1961. The day they built the wall. And that was—the band was supposed to play at my wedding. They weren’t allowed to leave the barracks. And only a few people snuck out, including the piano player. So, we had at my wedding an �American playing jazz. He was up all weekend with that, so we had to borrow a record player. And that was about it. And then I…well, we moved into—closer to the area where my husband was stationed. And I decided then to switch my jobs and I got a job with a general at the Berlin command. And I worked there as a translator and whatever. And we—until we came to the United States. Because I thought well, I married him and I am going to the United States, I might as well get used to working for an American and that was the greatest idea. There is a very interesting book around that time. It’s called Uncle Tom’s Hutte, That’s a train—a subway station in Berlin, right at that area. Should—you should really read it. When I saw—it’s a criminal story but it deals with around that time when I was just living there and experience the whole thing. (01:00:20) Interviewer: Alright. Civilian: That was…well, that’s about the end of it. And then I came to the United States. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: 1962. Interviewer: Alright. Now, do you have any particular memories of that Berlin Wall and the crisis that followed? Civilian: Oh, my god, of course. That was just—that was just awful. It was just unbelievable. The wall? Oh my god, the wall. How could I forget that? Interviewer: Alright, we were about— Civilian: Basically yeah, I could say that in a way, we were a bit more protected. Living in the northern part of Berlin, we were not as bombed. We did not actually experience the Kristallnacht the way you would experience it if you lived in the city and in the middle of the town, the city. Because, first of all, you didn’t hear much about it on the radio or you didn’t read it in the paper. �Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: We didn’t have a television. Interviewer: Of course, that was not—because that was actually, we were talking about in between switching the tapes, this was Kristallnacht. But that—you would have only been one year old when that happened. So, that would be— Civilian: Exactly. I don’t remember anything about it. Interviewer: But what we were talking about though, right as that first tape ended though, was the Berlin crisis. And so, what do you recall about that? Civilian: Right. The Berlin Wall. Yes, that was the day I married. It was a happy day and it was a sad day because we all knew what was happening. But that was not basically all that much of a surprise; it was coming for a long time. We were separated. My aunt and my cousin—her husband had died during the war—had to actually flee, later on, East Berlin. They lived in the middle of the city and they had to leave, for some reason or another. But we used to commute all the time by subway and by rail. You know, go into the eastern part and took advantage of the culture that they had. We had several opera buildings. I mean, as a child, I used to go to the opera the way people go to the movies nowadays, right? And we used to go and buy food there, which was cheaper. That is the only thing I remember. But that was Berlin. But the rest of my family all lived in eastern—in the eastern part, which then became occupied by the Russians. And the Wall totally destroyed our relationship with these people. And I eventually was able, after so many years, to return to East Germany. And I went back with my children when they were little and I went back almost every year and it took me forever to get a visa to enter East Germany to travel. And you had to stay on the same route. You couldn’t deviate. If you had to take the train, or if you took a car, you had only to take a certain street that you could take. They timed you. And it �was—my aunts and uncles, they were all very afraid of their children because they were already growing up as…indoctrinated by the communist regime in their thinking and eventually some of them, I am sure, went even further. I don’t know. But it was…it was very unnatural and I never in my whole life thought I would have to go through such a division in your life. And I…that is why I am a little bit apprehensive about what is happening today. (01:04:12) Interviewer: Okay. Now, when do you actually go to the United States then? Civilian: 1962. Interviewer: Okay, so when your husband’s time in Germany ends. Civilian: Right. Interviewer: Now, were you able to go with him? Or did you travel separately? Civilian: No, he went back with the Army and I had to take a—I stayed home and packed my stuff and mailed certain things and then took a boat coming over. I think I came by the Bremen. I don’t know, there was a big boat. It was a weeks’ voyage. And it was quite a—Ellis Island. Yes, it was quite a joyous moment although before I met my husband, I considered Americans very arrogant and entitled. I didn’t like them. I never thought I would marry an American. That’s the weirdest thing. I did marry one because I fell in love with him. And…I don’t know why we felt that way. I have no idea. It must have been something that I heard or saw or reactions. Anything like that. I don’t know. And that’s basically it. (01:05:29) Interviewer: Alright. Civilian: And that’s the end of my life story and then I lived happily ever after here in this country. This country was good to me for a long time. It allowed me to go back to college and study and do things. And I have two wonderful children. �Interviewer: Alright. Well, it makes for a very good story so thank you very much for taking the time to share it today. Civilian: Well, I don’t know if it helped you any. But anyway, I can show you the pictures now. (01:05:57) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JohnsonB2145V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Brunhilde (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-07-18 Description An account of the resource Bruni Johnson was born on April 17th, 1937 in Berlin, Germany. As a young child, Bruni was sent to work on her aunt and uncle's farm out in the country during the early years of the Second World War. In 1945, she returned to Berlin and experienced several Allied bombing campaigns. After the war, the Russians marched into Berlin and Bruni's family's home was converted into a temporary hospital for the wounded Russian soldiers. Her family lived in what became West Berlin after the Berlin Wall was built and, upon graduating high school, Bruni went to England to learn English and then went to France to learn French. She later went on to college and became a translator before marrying an American soldier on August 13th, 1961. The couple then moved to the United States in 1962 to start a family together. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Brunhilde Anne Rika Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, German Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/656d13b9f68da0ee992bf884e0a3b6d6.mp4 cc7e478c462cb0335841f7562628ced8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d9e7176d12bdc0a326eca6ff16ec2085.pdf 22e342e01a6c5e83741e2b59aa2bfad5 PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Chester Johnson Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interview Length: 1:47:41 Interviewer: We are talking today with Chester Johnson of Grand Junction, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay Chester, start us off with some background on yourself. And to begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: I was born in South Haven, Michigan in 1949. I lived in Grand Junction out there. Went to our little 4 room schoolhouse thing until 8th grade. And I went from Grand Junction and moved to Benton Harbor downtown and what a—kind of a—education that was, going to a big school with over 500 kids in my class. So, going from knowing nothing to being in the action was pretty rough to watch. Interviewer: Okay. So, what years were you in high school? Veteran: I graduated in 1967, so all those. And I kind of had a job in high school so it kept me…I had my afternoon schedule, and it was pretty neat. Independent, you might say. Interviewer: Okay. Now, what was your family doing for a living when you were a kid? �2 Veteran: Well, my dad was a tool and die maker. He had his own little shop and had the family working with everybody. And he was sort of in charge of that deal. Johnson Tool and Die. And it is very hard to have your family work for you when—well, we always thought he was the only one that really knew what he was doing. But they were—demanded equal pay, of course. Bridgeville, Michigan. Interviewer: Okay, so did you work for the family business then? Or did you do something else? Veteran: I was 5 years old, like in 1960, or 10 years old when we got out of that. It was just too hard on my dad. And he was kind of a lifelong drinker. It seemed like he was never home. And big family and all but yet I always seemed like I was in—running the streets by myself sort of; behaving and, you know, going to the school and playing ball and the whole thing but… Interviewer: Okay. Now, Benton Harbor, ’67. So, was that…did you have a lot of black kids there? (00:02:41) Veteran: Oh yeah, it was like 50/50 blacks in the high school. And very good…I think it was sort of what I thought was high end of education thing. The state champion basketball thing was going real good. The sports is an indication of everything. And one of the things we were most proud of is like they were national champion band. The orchestra and things like that. And I always sort of—like, when they went to Chicago for the competition, they had won for thirty years or something and finally they said, “Don’t ever come back.” But… Interviewer: Alright. And so— Veteran: Nice school. �3 Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now when you graduated from high school, then what did you do? Veteran: Well, I was working at the—for the South Bend Tribune. Just part of the delivery system around there but I was kind of a boss or something so that was nice. And could have been into the office business thing from that but I went to work. Worked for them a couple years in high school and everything. That worked real good. And then I think after high school, about 1968, I got a job at Avion Coach Corporation. And it was a nice little family outfit: 100 people or something. And in was thinking the other day that over 100 people worked there but there was only one other Vietnam veteran that I could remember ever being there. It is kind of unusual but we just—we didn’t talk about stuff like that. Interviewer: Okay. But you were working there before you went into the Army? (00:04:20) Veteran: Yes, I did. Very important to have a job waiting for you. Interviewer: Alright. So, now you graduated from high school in ’67 and you are not going to college. Were you—did you figure that sooner or later you were going to get drafted? Or did you not— Veteran: I think I kind of was. We were, you know, ready sort of but I still was working and having a good time. And so, when I got drafted, I was kind of ready for that. Interviewer: Okay. So, when do you get drafted? Veteran: I got drafted…say January of 1969 it was. And so, and then I went in in mid-February of ’69. �4 Interviewer: Okay. Now, when you are getting processed in, now where do you go first? What do you—where do you report initially? Veteran: Well, I am not—I guess we had just an office thing about the appointment and everything, but we went on a Greyhound bus and started there in Benton Harbor and that’s where that office was. And as we come across the state, we’d stop at different places. Oddly enough, you’d remember this guy getting on and then months later he’s a pal, you know. It’s kind of funny they are Michigan guys. But as we went across the state to Detroit to Fort Peck, that was the hotel there, but that’s where you went to have your physical and, you know, check you out and everything the first time. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how rigorous was the physical? Veteran: Well, this was heart rate and that kind of thing. Nothing lifting weights or not that type of a physical. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I am sure they did a mental test thing on it. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: At the time. Interviewer: Now, did you notice anybody trying to beat the system or get funny heart rates? Or…? (00:06:18) Veteran: Well, the physical part not necessarily. But you know, the mental part—all of a sudden, they started wearing glasses or something. And I know guys that did that, but they were deathly afraid of going. �5 Interviewer: Alright. And so, you get through that. After the physical and stuff, then what happens? Veteran: Well, you go back home. And so, on their three months or something, and you get the second notice. Uncle Sam says, you know, come on in, you are drafted. But you do the same thing again: go back to Detroit to that place, on the bus. And then it is just an overnight. They are going to check you again. And it was the first time I ever flew in an airplane. It was normal for people from Michigan—going to Fort Knox, Kentucky was just the way it was done. But like right out of the blue, we were the first group to go to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Or I mean— yeah, Fort Bragg it was. And so, that was very different. Interviewer: Okay. And what kind of reception do you have at Fort Bragg? Veteran: Well, nothing big particular except that Fort Bragg was like an airborne—101st airborne, I believe—home or something. Interviewer: 82nd airborne, probably. Veteran: Was it? I— Interviewer: 101st is Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Veteran: Okay. But— Interviewer: But it’s a big airborne base? Veteran: Yeah, it was an airborne—the point is, instead of when you do your basic training and everything you do, you didn’t go anywhere unless you ran there. And if you are going to lunch and back, you had to—you were—it was okay to walk. But every step—if you got caught not �6 running to where you were going, you got in trouble. And as a whole company we ran. So…And I enjoyed that forever. I did 10Ks and all that. 20 years later, I enjoyed that. It’s not easy. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And how much emphasis was there on discipline? (00:08:25) Veteran: We were very disciplined at the time, I think. And especially there, the airborne, you know, sharp dressed and all that. It was basic where you would go, you know, learn gun techniques and some marching and just real let’s see what these guys are like thing. And… Interviewer: Okay. And how easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the Army? Veteran: Well, I was ready. I knew that, you know, this had to be done sort of. serve your country I guess, or something. I didn’t know hardly anybody else that was doing this. And even though I was from a very large class and everything, you know, just didn’t know the other people doing this. So… Interviewer: Okay. But…And how did the drill instructors treat you? Veteran: They were, you know, mean and all that on everybody. But its part of what you are doing and, you know, you learn to push the extra push ups or something. And well, part of what I remember doing is they had a little bar and you had to crawl under that through the mud and dirt and everything. One guy went through that and because this stuff was happening if you weren’t doing a good job. And he got through it and too slow. But it didn’t matter how fast and hard he did, he says, “You do it again.” And he went through it the second time, and when he come out of there, his chin was almost gone because he scraped it on the ground. But this is the craziness to please. There was a lot of that there, but you learned to put that extra out, I guess, the airborne way. �7 Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And when you went in, did you have any idea of what kind of assignment you were going to get? Or…? (00:10:17) Veteran: You know, kind of fear the worst or whatever but the—Vietnam was all part of that deal. I mean anything else is a vacation while you are in there. I had friends that had been places already in Germany and all that. But you screw that up and wind up in Vietnam. Interviewer: Alright. But you just kind of expected you were going to go to Vietnam? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And be infantry or…? Veteran: Most likely. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now— Veteran: And I liked—I liked the hunting and shooting and gun thing. That was in the family. So, I knew my way around that. Interviewer: Okay. And so, at what point do you find out where you are going next? Veteran: Well, at the end of basic training they wait like this 8 weeks. You are in there. You’ll know 3 or 4 days before or something and here’s you guys and there is a list out and you go, “Oh, Jim is going with me.” Or you know that kind of thing. And we went to Fort McClellan, Alabama, which is the home of the Women’s Army Corps. Not that that ever did us any good. But it was a different thing. You are thinking oh, the ladies thing. But it wasn’t like that. The men are very, very dedicated to being in. And you had the returning Vietnam veterans that were usually your instructors and they wanted to see you be smart and do a good job and protecting you. To learn this, it’s going to protect your life. �8 Interviewer: So, this is your advanced individual training? Veteran: Yes, it is. Interviewer: Okay. And what was—what were you being trained to do at that point? Veteran: Well, I don’t know. Somehow that—I think, like I say, Benton Harbor was a higher…all the other kids were getting As. I got a C. I still got a good education there, I’d say, because I was doing mortars. And I guess that’s classroom work a lot. So, we were more so in a classroom now all of a sudden. And you had to dress nice. But and my other friends were dragging through the dirt and doing the real rifle every day while we are sitting in the classroom quite a bit. (00:12:22) Interviewer: Okay. So, at Fort McClellan, how large of a group were you training with? Veteran: That was only like 30 men in our…we had a company that would have been 100 people and there were other little buildings, but our building had like 25 or 30 bunks in it, double bed bunks. And so, we operated with like 30 in that group right there. Interviewer: Okay. So, you are not at one of these really big infantry training bases. You are at something that is more specialized than other parts of the base or for other things. Veteran: Yeah, and it—the whole fort was a lot smaller. So…There was these other places. Interviewer: And when you are at Fort McClellan, I mean, do you get to go off base at all? Veteran: It was pretty reasonable that we got off eventually after a couple weeks. But every weekend you would get off Friday or Saturday night. So, I went to the stock car races and stuff like that. And so, that was pretty good. Interviewer: Okay. �9 Veteran: And part of what my group was there, I thought was interesting, is almost all these other 30 men in my outfit there were college educated degrees. But it was the end of the college deferment a lot and so you had these people with two and three years of college or something, but they still had to be the smarter guys though. I didn’t feel to be the real bright guy in the group. And but they were all, you know, way smart guys. So…I still prided myself a little. Interviewer: Okay. So, it’s a little but different group. Now, were most of them white? Veteran: Yes, I would say at that time. Basic training was sort of 50/50 and that was kind of rough getting together but eventually, the southern boys and us, we became a group. In this, there was…I don’t know if you’d say like 10ish percent or 10—out of 30 guys, probably 3 or 4. I can only remember a couple but… Interviewer: The 3 or 4 were black and the rest— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and so if they were in college, you have a higher percentage probably that more will be white. (00:14:31) Veteran: I imagine, yes. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, is that another 8 weeks? Veteran: Well, 8 weeks in basic and then this is 8 weeks in AIT. Yeah. In Fort McClellan, Alabama, which is the—right the back door to Atlanta. So, we had brand new kids from Chicago, “Hey, let’s go see the Cubs.” I had never been to a ballgame really and so we saw them a couple times. The ’69 Cubs were almost world champions. Interviewer: Yeah, I know. �10 Veteran: And but that was pretty easy going and no stress or anything. Interviewer: Okay. Now, you mentioned you had returning Vietnam veterans as some instructors. Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Did they talk to you much about Vietnam or what to expect there? Veteran: We weren’t really around them at that time but when they did their classes where they were teaching you how to clean a rifle or whatever, it was part of that. And nice fellows, really. I mean, to be picked most of them were sergeants, to be in charge of this kind of thing. So, that’s a particular thing in itself, you know, I thought. Interviewer: Okay. Now, what did they do with you after AIT? Veteran: Well, after AIT, they do the same thing right at the end of that deal. Real big surprise: they don’t give you the list of all these guys that—and you know all the smart college guys and everything? Well, I am picked to go to NCO school at Fort Bragg, which was— Interviewer: Fort Benning? Veteran: Fort Benning, yeah right there. So, it isn’t—that’s the…where the airborne trains and everything. So, to go there was really off the wall. And that’s just three months at least. And so, I was like starstruck after that. For me to be with that outfit? Interviewer: Okay, so most of the other guys that you were training with just went on to regular assignments, then? (00:16:25) Veteran: Yeah. I’d say…well, 9 out of 10 or more. �11 Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, you—now, you are going to NCO school. And can you describe that? What was that like? Veteran: Well, again, that odd group was—the other guys were in…learning the battlefield techniques and building bunkers and that kind of—again, we were in a classroom. And I am not a college kid. This is kind of unusual for…Gee, how many of these figures here are you using? But by golly, they kept us busy. Firing the mortars, learning those, you know, from the little to the big ones, and maintenance and the whole deal. So, it was pretty unusual to be in a group like that. And boy is that different. This ain’t the Army. And I was having a great time. Interviewer: Okay, so you weren’t doing a lot of extended field exercises or things like that? Veteran: A bit but I knew what the other infantry was doing. And I couldn’t complain any. And actually, here is another thing that happened after the first…well, two months. Yeah, yeah, two months in basic, two months in AIT. We went from that and probably an E-2 I might have been, but they give you E-4 pay, a corporal, immediately. So, that’s like a shot in the arm. They actually pay you and they expect you to buy better clothes, and this is what it’s about. Now, you are this corporal and if you are successful, they will give you the E-5 and you get that money right away. And everybody else in the Army—that was a big thing for people to go from Vietnam and back. They never made any money. You know? Unless they were a good card player. (00:18:13) Interviewer: Yeah, well it would take them longer to get promotions. I guess you make normally E-3 when you go overseas. Veteran: Well, that is mandatory. �12 Interviewer: Yeah, that’s mandatory. But then still, it takes them sometime to get to E-4 and then 5. So, if you start at E-5, then that’s better. Okay. Veteran: Well, the rank thing I found that during my year in Vietnam that it was nonexistent. The E-3 there? Man, I never saw anybody get specialists. Like, it was rare. The rank thing was for the people in the rear. I think it was not fair. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, you basically—you spend three months then training at Fort Benning? Veteran: It was…if I remember the dates exactly right, but I was there for…okay, if I was there three months training, then once I got my E-5, part of what they wanted to do is see if you are worthy of being a leader then. So, they sent me from Fort Benning then to Fort Polk, Louisiana. And as it was, there was quite a few of us and they just pick, you know, these different guys and all of a sudden these are your friends. We teamed up and drove over there in two cars. These young guys and all that. Staying in motels and everything. That was a big deal, you know. And once you get there, they assign me to a group where I had like 100 men in a building all by myself. And here I am a kid. You know, I know what really…you know, but those 100 guys…Sergeant Johnson and it, you know, you fall in line. That’s—he expects this so… Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I was devoted. Interviewer: Alright. So, what was your actual function there? What part of the training were you in charge of or…? Veteran: Well… �13 Interviewer: Or what did you do? (00:20:06) Veteran: We had this large building with as many as 100 kids in my building. And there was lines of them there and all my other friends were in this other building. I had a nice little room there, but I had the tiny little bunk just like the rest of the guys did. And a footlocker. I mean, I was just like them except I was Sergeant Johnson there by myself. And oh, a kid had a radio stereo we wound up having in my room because he couldn’t have it. And but basically what I did was make them behave and everything. I couldn’t hardly leave or go out of my room 24 hours a day unless what we did is in the morning, we got together in our big groups. And you know and they might have done some exercise or something but basically went to breakfast together as a group. And they’d have breakfast. We’d come back and gather up and they had classes to go to. And what we would do is march them around the fort to different classes. And that was my job is to be in charge of them right there and then they were in that class right there. A lot of times— well, this is mortar people too. Again. And a lot of them. And me and my friends were—I don’t know if I got pictures of that, but you know, 4 or 5 of us laying out there. I don’t even remember us smoking and stuff much because I certainly didn’t like the cigarette thing and never did. But you could have just kicked back and waiting for them to be done with their classes. And maybe they would come out at lunch; you’d march them to lunch. You know? Interviewer: Alright. So, you weren’t expected to do any of the, you know, longer marching with them or the training out in the field? Veteran: Well, we did part of that too. I remember, like, in the NCO school, part of what we did is the—you do the mortar but part of it was is learning the 45 and how to tear it apart and do the whole thing. And very hard to master that. I think you are supposed to have three days on it. The guy says, “Well, you are going to have to do this this morning,” kind of thing. But we did do a �14 job where we took them out into the field. I was telling a friend of mine this yesterday. And the mortar group again, the other guys are crawling through the bushes and doing…they were making stuff for them, but we dug a—about a 4 foot by 8-foot-long hole in the ground about 8 foot deep. (00:22:41) Veteran: And then you had to cover it with sticks over the top and they had stairways going down in it. And then from there it was like 3 trenches out in a circle. And great big circles out there with mortars in them. And it’s kind of funny that oh yeah, you do that. We are out there four days or something, digging these holes, probably with a little shovel too, in Louisiana dirt. And I guess it was funny but the other sergeant—E-6 or lieutenant or somebody—come over there and he comes over there and looks at it. “Nice job, guys. Fill it in.” I mean, it was—we had dug it probably a couple hours before. And but what are you going to do? That’s what we are doing. Nobody is shooting at us yet so… Interviewer: Alright. Now, did you have to do any sort of bivouacs or be out overnight with the men in the field? Or…? Veteran: Well, that was—part of that was 3 or 4 days or so. And so, they had their backpack stuff. They brought our food and stuff like that in them, sure. But yeah, we stayed out there overnight a few times. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And when do you finish that? Veteran: Well, I could—by the months, I could figure that out. I finished in early December, I think it was, or mid-December. And they give us a—very unusual that I come in the Army a couple months after Christmas. Well then, there I was there and had a 30-day leave of absence at �15 Christmas and New Year’s again. So again, I wasn’t in there then. I thought that was kind of funny. Interviewer: Well, you normally get—you get a leave after you go through all that training and before you go overseas. (00:24:35) Veteran: Right. Definitely. But I was in almost a year before I got that. Interviewer: Right. Between the different trainings as they had the training and then the stuff. Veteran: Yep. We got a week or two and sometimes they sent you straight there. Interviewer: Okay. So, once you have—you get your leave over the holidays basically. Now, do you report back to Fort Polk? Or are you heading off to Vietnam? Or what’s next? Veteran: Well, I would have been home and from there we went to I think Chicago airport and I had a local fellow that we trained together in my…And I never knew him from these little towns but wound up knowing him and the family took us to Chicago in their GTO. And we flew from Chicago to Fort Lewis, Washington. And that’s where we departed from there, so you didn’t go back to a fort necessarily. Interviewer: Okay. So, you are basically—your next assignment basically is going to be Vietnam? Veteran: Yeah, yeah. That’s—I mean, I already know that. I probably had the orders already from there. And went over there and did another physical, I am sure. Really, they don’t send you over there without that kind of stuff. Interviewer: Do they give you shots and things before you go to Vietnam? �16 Veteran: I am sure; you got them all the time. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And then how did they get you to Vietnam? You leave Fort Lewis and…? Veteran: I left Fort Lewis and we went to Anchorage, Alaska. And I remember getting there and it probably being zero out there and ran out there and running around the—in freezing, you know, zero or something out there. But hey, what do we care? Could get worse. Maybe I will break my leg and kind of funny—joking with that kind of stuff. But so then from Anchorage, real quick stop you know. I don’t know, 30 minutes or an hour or something. And I don’t even know if we left the plane. Probably. But then from there we went through Tokyo real quick. And walking through the airport there somehow. Maybe taking a break again but you know the little—the Japanese dudes ain’t quite up to your shoulder. But I know they were bad dudes. The whole Army walking through the airports and stuff. But you got to respect them. What the heck. (00:26:49) Interviewer: Alright. And then is Vietnam the next stop? Veteran: Yes, it is. Interviewer: Okay. And where do you land in Vietnam? Veteran: Well, I think it was China beach, if I remember right. Interviewer: Well, so Da Nang, basically? Veteran: Um… Interviewer: Or…? Veteran: Not Da Nang. I think we were down south when we come in if I remember right. �17 Interviewer: Well, okay you have a different route. Were you on the coast or were you inland? Because— Veteran: Well, we started on the coast. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Chu Lai is my home base. Interviewer: Chu Lai is your base. A lot of times you might land at Cam Ranh Bay. Veteran: It was Cam Ranh Bay. Interviewer: Yeah. And then they come in— Veteran: Which is down south. Interviewer: That’s right. Veteran: Down south. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Right. I forget. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you show up during the day or at night? Veteran: Well, it was another little—I always thought I was lucky doing these things. Gee, I went through, you know, NCO school. Where did that come in and everything? And they go, “Well, here we are, and we are coming to Vietnam.” And you had the American stewardesses and the pilots and all that was American stuff. They go—and we kind of knew it was—February 1st it was going to be that day—you were in over enemy territory, the sea, on January 30 or 31st or something. So, you get combat pay for January. So, oh boy, 60 bucks extra. 65 a month you �18 only got. And then landed February 1st in that morning. It was daytime in the morning I am pretty sure. Interviewer: Alright. And what is your first impression of Vietnam when you get there? (00:28:24) Veteran: I am sure the air and everything was real different, you know. But no big deal. I had been in by a year by that time. And I had a couple people that recognized me or something so it kind of—you got something different on your mind there. And well, I had to be in charge of people. I am kind of eyeballing that thing. Not yet but I didn’t have an assignment, but it probably stunk or something. But what the heck you going to do? Interviewer: Alright. So, once you land there, what do they do with you? Veteran: Well, we were there a couple days. And if I remember right, probably…was it another jet or a C-130? I don’t—I can’t remember how we got to Chu Lai from there. But we were only in Cam Ranh Bay, that’s right there, for a couple days. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then went up to Chu Lai. And the same thing: they hadn’t assigned us to this company yet. And so, you get there for—I think we were there two or three days. Same kind of thing. You—they are not necessarily have you assigned yet. They figure they might even evaluate you and send you out or something. Who knows? Interviewer: Okay. So, how did you spend your time while you were on these bases? Veteran: Well, these other ones…there wasn’t a lot going on there. You might have some free time. I don’t remember. I am sure I found the EM club, which facing over the China Sea right �19 there. And I mean, who has that view? You know, in our—some of our bunkers there were—I mean, you could throw a rock into the ocean right there. It was kind of who needs to guard this? But hey, there you go. (00:30:13) Interviewer: Alright. And what did the base look like? What was the terrain like around Chu Lai? Veteran: It was mild hilly there because actually, like I say, we were right next to the ocean which was a couple hundred feet down to the water there. And just pure dirt. There wasn’t a blade of grass or a tree or anything because they bulldozed stuff clean when they get the place. And put these little buildings. Those places had like a wooden deck for a floor, and you were on this—the cheapest 18-inch-wide single bed that there is in existence with a 2-inch mattress and things. But really, if you had that in the jungle, you would have thought you were in heaven. You know? Interviewer: Okay. So, you are just there, okay, and then you get assigned to a unit? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Yep. Interviewer: And for the record, what unit were you assigned to? Veteran: I was assigned for the B company, 1st of the 46th. Americal. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: 196th. �20 Interviewer: So, basically you had B company, 1st battalion, 46th regiment, which is part of the 96th—is it Light Infantry Brigade? Veteran: 196th. Interviewer: Or 196th. Veteran: Light infantry brigade, yes. Interviewer: Okay, which in turn is part of the 23rd division which is known as the Americal? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Yeah. So, we are just lining up all of that stuff for the record there. Yep. Okay. And were they—where were they when you joined them? Veteran: Well, my first assignment was to go out to LZ Professional. And your group lands there. And this is another thing about a lot of this stuff: most of it you did by yourself. It was almost never have somebody you would know going back and forth. And that goes from the minute you are there. It is kind of a different thing there. Interviewer: Okay. So, when did you actually arrive in Vietnam? (00:32:06) Veteran: Well… Interviewer: February? Veteran: Yeah, it actually was my 21st— Interviewer: That’s right, that’s right. So, it was 1970 because the February 1st, 1970 is when you land. �21 Veteran: Oddly enough that—and I was—it took that long between, now that I think about it, February 1st kind of that morning when I got there and my first day in the field on LZ Professional there. It was February—my birthday—February 18th. So, that took 18 days of this jockeying and goofing around. I really can’t remember exactly what we were doing. I remember getting mortared a few times. You had to go on guard duty and some things but there was going to be a lot worse things there than having hot food and the whole deal. That was pretty good living. Interviewer: So, probably most of the time you spent at Chu Lai waiting to get sent out. Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. But now you join in. Now, where was LZ Professional? Veteran: LZ Professional was…about 30 or 40 kilometers—we always thought it was way out there—from straight west of Chu Lai, which is a very large air base there. They have jets and everything land there. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay so around Professional, were you in the mountains now or foothills? Or…? Veteran: When you get there, you are on this huge base that probably holds 6 or 800 people and a lot of them are in mortars and or somebody would be in charge of the helicopter pad and you know, on and on. And then you always have like 3 companies. That’s maybe 2 to 300 men that are just—that’s all they do is guard duty around there. And we would take turns to do our patrols off into the mountains around there. And it—our patrols were anywhere from usually 3 weeks to maybe even a month long. You’d be out there, and the helicopters would resupply you and you’d be usually about an 80-man group out there, so… �22 Interviewer: Okay, so the—basically, so they would patrol in company sized units? (00:34:11) Veteran: Our outfit? That’s the way we did. Right around 70 to 80 men. Interviewer: Alright. Now, when you got there were you just an infantryman? Or were you already—did you have part of a mortar crew? Veteran: Well, you are still a beginner when you get there so they assign you to…you know, you don’t have anybody assigned to you yet. So, I am in somebody else’s deal and I always prided myself with being, well, a country kid. A point man and cutting trails all the time? I loved that. Everybody, they wouldn’t carry a pencil if they had to, but I had them: the great big machete and, you know, a buck knife and nobody was getting me without, you know. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, when you join the unit, how are you received? Veteran: They are pretty busy in their own thing, and they have the individual come and go all the time. And there was a whole flock of us sergeants at the time. The training thing was in high gear and I thought we were received well. and they’d joke or they might play a card game here and there, although that was very rare, I found out later. But on the firebases, that’s part of what—you’d have this extra little time there, you would dig trenches or… Interviewer: Okay, because you are coming in as what they would call shake and bake sergeant— Veteran: Sure. Interviewer: You’re the new guy. Veteran: There was a lot of us, though. �23 Interviewer: Yeah, at that point. And so, what approach did you take? Did you just try to learn from your squad leader or anybody around you? Veteran: Kind of...but I probably thought I was a wise guy. I was a sergeant then see. They had to do what I said. Interviewer: But initially you were assigned to somebody else’s squad? Veteran: Oh yeah. Definitely. Interviewer: And then how quickly did you feel like you were starting to catch on to what was going on or what they were doing? (00:36:11) Veteran: I felt good immediately. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know, I…maybe I had issues before I went in that I was glad to get in there and with this group and camaraderie. I didn’t go to college and pal up and all that. You know? Individual, I felt real good at the time. Interviewer: Okay. And how quickly did you start doing things like walking point and that sort of thing? Veteran: Immediately. Yeah, there’s one picture in there, me and my pal there, and that was part of—and then again, taking pictures. I never seen anybody with a camera. Nobody wanted to wait and also your camera got wet all the time. Interviewer: Okay. So, how did you wind up taking a camera with you? �24 Veteran: Well, I always loved photography and my dad was real big on every little stereo camera and Kodaks and you know the slide thing? And so, I was into that from way, way back. And I just had like an ammo thing and just the junk old camera. And my mother, that’s part of what she would do for me is send me a package every month of everything I asked for. And part of it was film or maybe some Hav-A-Tampa cigars. And another one I did that I just thought why am I doing this? Nobody else does. But I had a 30-caliber ammo can and that was waterproof. So, I would carry paper tablets and when the ink pens and stuff—this is like a stupid thing, but I’d say, “Here, give me all them. 10 ink pens? Here, I got them. If you want one, come and get it.” And then I would—they would write letters on my pad and I was kind of the postman I thought. I thought I was brilliant. I had a radio; I had the camera and all in there and I never seen anybody else carry the ammo can thing. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Keeps stuff dry. Interviewer: Okay. Yeah. Okay, you said a radio. So, like a little transistor radio? (00:38:15) Veteran: I had about as big as a cigarette pack with the earplug thing. Completely not authorized. Interviewer: Yeah. And was there any radio that you could pick up? Veteran: Oh yeah. There was. Pat Sajak was a Vietnam announcer, I understand. And there was two stations. Same thing but they had music on there and news and I am sure they did sports broadcasting and that. And yeah, they had real good radio and jeez, I mean you could put a hat over the whole country, so to speak. And yeah, I had radio all the time. �25 Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And okay, so the—you go out, you join the unit. And so now the…the LZ where you are at…again, is that up in hill country now? Veteran: Yes. Definitely. That’s where it began there: LZ Professional. Interviewer: Right. Okay. And as you are patrolling around there, was there much enemy activity at that point? Veteran: Not too bad right around there. And that was an older firebase. In fact, it was the home of the 101st Airborne. They called it part of the hill on LZ Professional. And you know, the bad guys were there; nobody wanted to mess with them. And near the big firebases, everybody just learned to move away from that. They—not enemy. We had mountain people that were living up there. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And we went to Dragon Valley though and that was high activity there of Viet Cong and this kind of stuff. And just learning some of that. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And even took the little 60 mortar there and there I went from my regular group and I got put with the command center with the…you know… Interviewer: Company commander? Veteran: Company commander and the mortar—the guy that was in charge of all our artillery was one guy that did all that to break—and that helped us. That’s the way our unit worked. But we were them with our little, tiny mortar and you’re going oh, that’s not much. But I learned that when we got attacked and we’d set our mortar up, usually the first round that went off? I noticed �26 there was never another shot at us. And they feared that as much as we did. It’s terrifying to see a sky full of mortars. (00:40:47) Interviewer: Okay. So, you had a 60-millimeter mortar. And about how much did the parts of that weigh? Veteran: The—you have already got 40 pounds of food—ammunition and all that. That’s—and then you have 40 pounds like of personal: your gear and if I remember right, you had about 80 pounds, that’s water too and bullets and everything. But then that one base plate was 30 pounds. Very awkward. No handles on it, you got to carry it on your shoulder or something. So, a big guy, I get to do that. And to—this mortar was only 2 feet high. It is a tiny thing. And but everybody had to carry mortar rounds for us. They sort of resented having that around. And that was pretty—pretty heavy deal. Interviewer: Okay. So— Veteran: Three sergeants it takes to carry the little mortar. Interviewer: Okay. So, one of you has the base plate, one has the tube? Veteran: The tube and then you have a fork thing. And the tube and the forks for the tube is— that’s very—three very heavy pieces. But the base plate? Crazy to carry that. And your gun and ammo. Interviewer: Alright. And you would basically—would you hump through the jungle that way? (00:42:08) �27 Veteran: Oh yeah. We were right with everybody else but kind of protected. I didn’t have to do point; I didn’t have to worry about who was in front of me or back. We were sort of up there with the main command group. Interviewer: Right. Of course, wouldn’t the command group be a target? Veteran: Oh, of course. But part of having 70 or 80 men out there…it’s hard to believe but you had the captain or something over there, he might come and go, “You see the helicopter going in over there?” But you’re out front doing point up there and at night, because we stayed out there every night for weeks and months at a time, you do a giant circle around the top of the hill. And when we got back: okay, there’s that guy there. Now we are in a complete circle. The guys in the middle? They were so secluded that sometimes I didn’t see them for it seems like a week or two at a time. That—that’s how thick the jungle is and that’s how big of an area we’d be out there. It’s kind of crazy to think that they were back there. But here—now we are out there with our mortar and everything. We were with the command group. We are protected now. Kind of funny. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how long—how much of the time, your Vietnam tour, did you spend with the mortar? Was that your main job? Veteran: Well, that’s another thing. We had a captain. Lieutenants usually run our company, normally. But we had Captain Meyer, I think it was. Bradley. Captain Bradley. And he was notorious when you went up to the A Shau Valley and things like that. They would—he would be in charge of that outfit. And the captain decides to take the mortar. So, it was like 2 or 3 different—a week at a time or even less. So, but normally I was back with the regular platoon and had my own squad too. That come and went but eventually I was just a squad leader. �28 Interviewer: Okay. Alright and what kind of men did you have in your squad and platoon? What did you learn about them or what kind of guys were they? (00:44:23) Veteran: Well…you all had your shoot the breeze at night thing. You—really, the radio was like—nobody had that kind of thing. Or…you know, and I had a little ear plug for it. If I let anybody use it, jeez, if it come undone, it started blasting. That happened once. But or like I always thought we’d be sitting around playing cards and everything. That was unusual. Nobody wanted to have any of that. Or not like you saw somebody shooting dice or something. Not there, back when you are partying or something. But yeah, you’d…and it was another thing about being there where we were is you would be talking real—I mean, you’d get, you know, and these guys right here and…So…and you might know their voice. And it—you can’t see them. It’s pitch black, you know. And you learn to—you got your little match pack because we wound up having to do our own food every day. What a drag that is. These trashy little meals that they had. But I guess eventually, you know, existence is all you ask for. If you had peaches in that home made coffee for breakfast, you—wow—you were cool. Interviewer: Alright, so you are basically living on C-rations most of the time? Veteran: Oh, completely. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Completely. I bargained my way into the LRP, a couple of them. And to me—I put that in the bottom of the pack and that was my extra food for emergency because it was lightweight. I always had food. Interviewer: Okay, so that’s sort of the freeze-dried stuff, kind of the ancestor of the MRE? �29 Veteran: Yeah. I had—I might have had a half a dozen of them and I probably had to pay for them. We were in that kind of outfit. Interviewer: Alright. Now, do you spend most of your time when you are in the field kind of out in the hill country? Or did you also patrol the areas closer to Chu Lai? (00:46:25) Veteran: No, we were never by Chu Lai. That was completely in the mountains. And we went from LZ Professional, and you’d operate off there. And I think we went on—we called them missions and they—as one of the sergeants, I would get in on that deal and okay, we are doing this. And they’d tell you kind of, “Tell the guys we are going to this place.” It didn’t mean anything anyway; you didn’t know what you were doing. But we went to Mary Ann briefly for a week. And then a month later we weren’t—we moved there sort of permanently where you had to help develop the base. And that’s where Agent Orange come in. I think they blasted it with Agent Orange to kill all the vegetation. And then they’d drop a couple dozers in there. I mean like I say, there wasn’t a blade of grass in any of those. And then when you put the soldiers in there, you sort of had to dig the trenches by hand around there. And the toilets, the latrines, were…We didn’t like it because of the toilet was terrible. In the jungle, you are sort of in charge of your own. And you didn’t have much, believe me. Interviewer: Alright. Now, did you encounter civilians much? Veteran: Well, at first when we were on the LZ—we moved. Was there 4 months or something on LZ Professional and then went to LZ Mary Ann, which was another 30 kilometers or more out in the jungle too. Way out there, like I thought we were near Laos, where there would be no sign of other firebases. Or if you got up in the air on LZ Professional, you could see the ocean �30 over there. Well, this was—that was gone. You were totally in the jungle out there. And we were mixed with the Southern Vietnamese armies. Interviewer: Okay. (00:48:29) Veteran: And that was quite a group, but you learned soon that they were kind of going downhill. And it was bad to be there at the end of the war knowing what’s coming up. And but civilians, oddly enough, we were on Mary Ann a week or something, patrolling all around there. Well, come to find out you, had these Montagnards we call them. I have a pretty good picture in there. I don’t know if I showed you that big one because I don’t remember explaining that. It was very unusual. But come to find out, here we got this firebase and we been there for a month off and on and there they are 500 yards from right there and they are in those bushes right there. Twenty people live right there? And but that was no—never had weapons, they never did booby traps and all that monkey business for us. And but the one picture I showed you is one of those groups on the firebase. And very unfortunately they lost their homes and villages and were shipped back to what is known as civilization to live with—in the villages. They wouldn’t let them be out there. We were in a free fire zone. There wasn’t supposed to be anybody there. Interviewer: Right. Or at least if there was anyone up there, you could shoot them. Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Yes, so they were moved—trying to move a lot of the civilian population into areas that the South Vietnamese controlled. At least that was the— Veteran: 1970. They should have been done by then, but we ran into a lot of Montagnards. They weren’t civilians at all. That’s a completely different… �31 Interviewer: Yeah, because they weren’t Vietnamese, they were a different ethnic group and— Veteran: Definitely. Interviewer: And the Vietnamese didn’t like them. (00:50:15) Veteran: They were mountain people. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Kind of. Interviewer: Yeah. And sometimes in some areas they would actually help the Americans and do different things. Veteran: Oh, they were wonderful. Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, how long was it once you were out there before you actually kind of got into combat? Or…beyond having the mortar round fall on you somewhere? Veteran: Well, yeah, jeez, I was there 3 or 4 days the first time. You are back there on that base. The mortar, they—you know, it ain’t apologizing whether you are in a bush or not. You know, we got mortared there and that was pretty exciting. The old barber shop guy that maybe trimmed your hair? By golly, they caught him in the wire there all shot up and killed him. This nice guy. That story, that’s one that happened. And I forget where I am going so often. Interviewer: I was just asking but I guess out on the field, how long did it take you to kind of get into a combat situation? �32 Veteran: Out there? When I got to Mary Ann again, my group is already out in the field that time. And we got mortared on the base right there. So, when you get out in the field, you might be out there 5 days or a week or something. These periods come and go. But the combat is pretty hot. You got something to think about for a while. But its so erratic that you might get it 3 or 4 days in a row, or you might not hit it for…I had a tiny little diary but it’s microscopic sort of thing that I almost can’t read. And I made notes. If you ever made abbreviations on your own and don’t know what that stuff means anymore. I mean, I guess being addled or something. Interviewer: Alright. Well, if you did encounter the enemy out in the field, I mean, would it be like a single sniper? Or would they ambush you or what would happen? (00:52:11) Veteran: It was kind of normal that we’d get attacked maybe but more likely than not, even as our large 70- and 80-man unit going down through the trails, very quiet the whole thing. And we’d be so far out there, they had no idea anybody was out there. We always thought we were the…yeah, we were B Company. Kind of the lead of the whole people out there. If anything was happening, B Company did it. You know? And you go out there and find it. And we’d run into people on the trail and surprise them. And they might shoot you, shoot at you, but they were running. And a lot of them were younger kids, teenagers. Interviewer: Now, were they in North Vietnamese uniforms? Or do you think they were Viet Cong? Veteran: No, no, rarely. Rarely. Yeah. Although later I got a real good map of Vietnam and I mean the whole country. If you look right where Mary Ann was, it says Viet Cong stronghold. And the—now, they are telling me where I was right there? You bet. �33 Interviewer: Okay. So, you’re located—yeah, if they are not in conventional military uniforms then they are Viet Cong. You know, that’s pretty standard there. Okay. Now, you…I guess I was trying to sort of get you to kind of just explain a little bit about what can happen if you encounter. So, sometimes you might just—you meet somebody on the trail and it’s just an accident? Veteran: Lots of times, yep. Interviewer: And would you ever get ambushed or hit mines or things like that? Veteran: The booby traps. Our own hand grenades and stuff. More likely than not it was stuff that was if our guys didn’t want to carry things, they might throw hand grenades off the trail there that we get attacked by later. I mean, I hate to say anything about these but that was the case a lot of times. We carried a great deal of weight. You know, and like I said, I carried 8 quarts of water at one time. That’s 20 pounds of water, kind of, you know. But we went on long, long trips at times and we’d be in the bad guy neighborhood in a night laager. (00:54:31) Veteran: And I remember one time where you had to put people way out away from your main group and be there all night out there, 2 or 3 of you. And when we got back to the main group, at, you know, 7 in the morning, getting ready to go, and we got attacked from all sides. And the main thing: the jungle is so thick. It was very unusual to see anybody, but you’d see over there a couple hundred feet or meters or something just a wall of flame from their guns. And that was usually how we fought is shoot kind of at the base of that fire right there. And it’s not like you found a body count or anything much because they were hauling each other off and trying to get away. But it’s quite exciting. �34 Interviewer: So, sometimes they would figure out where you were camped and then that’s what— Veteran: They could follow you. Interviewer: Yeah, and then just open up. But then would they move off quickly? Would they break contact pretty quickly? Veteran: Usually. Yeah. It wasn’t an extended battle with us. And they could do their damage to us and we were out of business. We had to take care of our wounded, have them shipped off, and then you are in a different plan when you have been attacked out there. And we got supplied every three days with the C-ration deal and our mail, usually. And so, they could figure—you know, they see that helicopter over there in the middle of nowhere, they are going to have a pretty good idea where and say, “Oh yeah, that’s B Company? Don’t go there.” You know, in the other ones, we had another company that was attacked so much, and it is unfortunate the way they did it is they just re-put the new individuals in there. And they never had a group that got together. There was people there that knew people that were only a month or two old. And over half of them like that. You just can’t. They are afraid of doing anything. They don’t know anything. And that’s the way it was done. (00:56:42) Interviewer: Okay. Yeah, so sometimes the company will have either good leadership or there will be some of the NCOs, experienced soldiers, know what to do. And if a company knows how to operate, the North Vietnamese maybe stay away from it. And if they are not as good, then they are targeted? Veteran: I…you know, people brag but our outfit was the best. I was proud to be around that outfit. And some of these other ones, if you get back to my battalion and everything here, if you �35 look in the book in the Mary Ann book [Keith Nolan, Sappers in the Wire], if I am not mistaken, Charlie Company was on the hill. And the great big NVA forces, they knew that we were being deployed away from that area and everything. Okay, let’s go clean it up and we don’t have to put up with that anymore. I think…well, I was home a couple months but and I never heard anything about it. A friend of mine knew that I had been there, and he told me at work. That guy. Interviewer: Alright. Now, you mentioned at one point before the interview that at some point you actually went into Laos. Veteran: Yeah. As this progresses, we—our group of the real good guys—and you had these groups that got together and learned from each other and all that—but this whole group wound up being ready to go home. And this is some of the things that the big shots can do is they go hey, these guys are really good. Let’s go use them one more time. Let’s take them to the A Shau Valley. And I mean, go get your clock cleaned. (00:58:29) Veteran: And to get into the Laos thing. And so, we went there for a couple weeks at a time. Nobody else wanted to go down in the valley but we were damn fools and wound up going there by ourselves. And got attacked pretty bad. One time there was a—in my platoon, there was a— you know, it’s just numbers but I think there was 28 of us. And at the end of the day, there was 7 left that weren’t wounded or…We didn’t have many causalities. Interviewer: At least, not many killed. Veteran: Right. But they all got wounded in one way or the other. And helicopters crashing right over there. And wow. This week was more traumatic than the rest of the whole tour, kind of thing. Interviewer: And what month was that? �36 Veteran: Well, it’s sort of a traditional Army thing. Early June, like the 6th of June, they do stuff like that. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: It’s a history. Interviewer: Yeah, it’s to commemorate D-Day or something along those lines. But okay. So, you have that kind of thing but then—because the A Shau—that’s where the Hamburger Hill fight had been the year before. And there was a lot of hard fighting and then after that— Veteran: I have a friend that was there. My brother-in-law. Interviewer: Okay. Now along the way as you go, the area that you were, when was the monsoon? When was the bad weather? Veteran: Well, that’s like our northern winter. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: More or less. And we—and that come and gone when we were there. Interviewer: Yeah. (01:00:03) Veteran: At times. Or you’d be wet for a month, and you might have to have this big clunky…like a little poncho that only covered down to your waist kind of thing. And I am pretty sure most of us had it. It was almost like you have to have this; you have to have a hard hat. Sometimes I didn’t care to wear it. But you know, and that—you had to have the poncho. And we slept on a real clunky old fashioned water mattress. You know the one about as big as the thing here? And what a piece of junk. I mean, it was so heavy and so hard. It would be filthy. �37 You know, and you’d be—then you’d lay on it, you’d wake up in the morning, you felt like somebody rubbed dirt in your face. I mean, and it was normal to just be dirty and feel it. I got a picture that it just looks like I crawled through the mud. I probably did at the time. You know, if you got clothes once a month or something, you got them because they ripped or something. You didn’t get them because they were dirty. Interviewer: Okay. But when they did resupplies for you in the field, they weren’t bringing in new uniforms or things like that? Veteran: Never. If you wanted to request a pair of boots, it’s up to you to ask for that or you might get a few pair of shoestrings or something. But you kind of like your boots if you could keep them. And if you wanted a shirt, you could get one. But that wasn’t normal. And you probably feel a luck thing. I got a feeling you might want to just hey, nope, didn’t take any bullets last time. Or something. Didn’t think about that part, I guess. Interviewer: Alright. Okay, so you basically—so, by June of 1970, you have gotten to the A Shau and there are North Vietnamese there who don’t like you. But then from there you keep—you move around and change positions? (01:02:03) Veteran: Well, after the A Shau Valley, it was kind of this mission, we called it, you know. And we are there for a couple weeks. And oh boy, like I say, the sky full of mortars and that kind of a deal? They had this: a 51 caliber. We never saw that kind of stuff. And we had the jets right there where you’d be on a little hill the size of this building and that jet would disappear down below the hilltop thing there. It was kind of exciting from a mechanical nutcase and him bombing the 51 cal over there. It’s really goofy what you see. But… Interviewer: Now, do you have any idea what you were doing in Laos? �38 Veteran: Well, after we left the A Shau Valley and went over there and lost all these people…So, you’ve got all these new recruits and everything. So, they are going to send you over there. We only were as a platoon. So, say there was 30 of us. And that’s—we weren’t used to having a small group. But very good NCO in charge of the group. And so, we were over there patrolling around, looking for what’s over there. We weren’t attacking anything with that small of a group. And… Interviewer: And did you find anything? Veteran: Well, one time…Boy, I’d love to find that spot. We were in a…and nothing is happening out there. And had that other occasion of all that violence and everything. So, this is just heaven, you know. And taking a break, we found a giant waterfall and coming down the side of the mountain with the pool and everything. We all, “Okay, you guys don’t want to take a bath here? Guard us.” And I am jumping in there and getting clean. I’ve got one that I am sitting in there like the castle crown thing. And boy, everybody loved that. I wish I had that picture of myself. But so, we were there and one of our guys come over and he goes, “Hey, there’s a guy over there.” You know. And he was a new guy. And “Oh well, what did you do?” “Well, oh you know…” like he was afraid. Anybody else would have shot the guy or something but…So, we kind of calling in, telling the guys way back. Okay, hey this happened, and somebody is over there. And so, the guys that are 50 miles away or something make the decision of what you are going to do. And they say, “Alright, get your stuff together here.” Because we are having a break out there. (01:04:46) Veteran: And they have got a map of course. They know what is next to you more than you do there. So, they said, “Okay, go on up there.” And we are going up this big side of this big hill. And then we get up there and jeez, we are not very far away. Usually, you see people over there �39 and you’re—you think you are in another country. You’re just going to keep going. But we get to the top of the hill…oh, maybe it was about a quarter mile away or something over there, where that waterfall was right there. Okay, stop there and circle up and just a minute here. So, we are up there on the top wondering what is going on. And we look at rolling hills by us. We are way up. And kind of cleared for a long ways but this rolling hill. We had come through the jungle and we had come down this path over the open field-like. I mean, this is a huge valley. And we are looking over there and a line of guys come over there, about 6 guys. And we are going wow. These guys—they are six foot, something. And they all had hard hats on. Steel helmets. Kind of even made—probably American. And we are going well, they are Americans. But wait a minute, we are the only ones within 20 miles. I mean, this is the only time you are like that. But this happened to us. (01:06:19) Veteran: And they are going like, “Okay, line up in a row and as they come over…” this happens within seconds. They are making the other thing: here, line up like this. Like an execution on these guys. And you’d be surprised how guys can get away in wide open fields that maybe you only got 2 or 3 out of 6 of them or something. But yeah, them guys we figured was there Chinese there? Or…and we always thought Russian. What was that—heard that Russian MIG thing? Interviewer: Well, there were a lot of Chinese aiding the Vietnamese in different ways. And if you were not actually in Vietnam at the time, who knows what was there? But there would have been Eastern European advisors and things too. So, anything is possible. Veteran: But Eastern advisors were with the North Vietnamese? Interviewer: Well, you could have had Russians or Poles or Eastern— Veteran: We also had the story of the American whatever he was. �40 Interviewer: A deserter or something. Veteran: Yeah, and he was fighting with the guys and they were right in our neighborhood, supposedly. You know? Interviewer: But you saw a group who did not look like the usual Vietnamese. Veteran: It was real different, you know. And then just a unique experience to have a field, you know, these 6 or 8 guys coming after you and wow. Interviewer: Yeah. Now, when you were in the A Shau or when you went over to Laos and those areas, did you encounter—did you find enemy, large enemy, trails? Like the kinds that they could move a lot of stuff on? Veteran: Well, the NVA had attacked us in the A Shau there and we…Well, we always had the thing, you know, what is happening here? Well, it was in the morning and we had been moving like more than 24 hours. That was unusual. We usually stopped every night but this time we just kept going. Well, that’s the way you disappear out there. And the— Interviewer: Was there signs of big trails or things that the NVA used a lot? Veteran: Oh, this was huge by the A Shau Valley and that. That’s LZ West and LZ Siberia. You know, the whole thing is through there. But oh yeah, this is good. I was just getting to that too is when we were near Mary Ann, which isn’t much furth—different—than you get into Laos. We were in the high mountains. Super difficult. They couldn’t resupply you and everything, so it was hard to have you out there in the first place. (01:08:54) Veteran: You had to blow up the trees or something to get a helicopter down in there. Stuff like that. But we were on top of a pretty good size mountain as a company size. And then they go oh, �41 you are going way out there? Okay, Joe is sick and doesn’t feel good. Get him out here. And you were full strength when you went out there. But we were marching back and forth around there and by golly we come to this one spot. I don’t think I was dreaming but it was like a small highway in the enclosed jungle where a deuce and a half could cruise through there. And it seems like that we just come to that, and you’d think you’d make a big deal or…You didn’t follow trails; that was forbidden also. And nobody said a word. Like you crossed it? Maybe they knew you were going to go across it. But you just kept going and well you didn’t want that kind of NVA on your back. So, it was something to be fearful really. But I never saw it. Only once. But in Laos it was pure rolling mountain. Interviewer: Okay. Now, you mentioned you’d be out on these patrols, and they’d last a couple of weeks or whatever. Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Now, do you go back to a firebase then? (01:10:19) Veteran: Well, when you went back to the firebase you had to dig the ditches and do that, and they were real bitchy at you and you had this and that. In the jungle, call it more dangerous or not, probably wasn’t any more dangerous than being on that base there. And we didn’t like that. So, we tended to stay in the jungle. Interviewer: Yeah, but you would periodically—you’d go back to the firebase. If you go back to the firebase, could you replace your uniform or anything like that? Veteran: It was easier, yeah, but you always had that—probably not much easier though. It was just if you needed one, you’d get it kind of thing. �42 Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? Interviewer: Alright. Now, did you get any kind of R and R or real time out of the field? Veteran: It—the R and R—the standdowns, we called them—every two or three months we would get three days off. And they sent lock, stock, and barrel of us back to the rear. You, you know, can go get your wounds checked and…and you actually had a shower. And on this every two-to-three-month thing, it—you could get all the clothes you wanted. There is the new boots. So, every two or three months, new shoes or whatever. Some people did not want to change their boots. If you got good feet, they are comfortable. But I got a picture of me standing on the porch there with all new clothes. So, you did have that all new clothes deal, and you learned to keep it clean deal. Interviewer: Yep. And where would you go for the standdown? Veteran: Well, that was back to Chu Lai to our big base there. We didn’t have a lot of guard duty. Some would get attached to that, but a lot of the guys were pretty much beer. You had to be 21 years old and an E-6 to buy liquor. But I was an E-5 and 21 and I’d usually roll up my sleeves and when you walk in there in Vietnam and a guy asks for a bottle of liquor? You’re going to tell him no. You know? Interviewer: Alright. Now, were there guys who were smoking pot too? (01:12:30) Veteran: I have a picture there too of a guy that was. And again, I had been there 6 months. I was over 20 years old and never smoked weed. Southwestern Michigan was, you know, a gust…whatever it was, it was backwards or…we weren’t doing that. But this guy goes— �43 California kid—he goes, “You…you what? You never smoked weed?” and well a few minutes later, there is a picture of us three standing there and it’s just after I smoked my first joint. So…But it was only back at our party place. Usually in the field it was…I never smelled anything or… Interviewer: Yeah. Did people smoke cigarettes in the field? Veteran: We got them regularly in a great big box. We got an SP pack, and it was real common for them to get that. And sometimes you’d, even in the field, you got this huge box that had the different cigarettes, even Kents, and they were—you’d throw them away. So, all the Vietnamese were smoking Kent’s and, you know, and you’d throw them away and your enemy was getting everything that was left. And I would always say, “Hey, I am not smoking cigarettes.” And everybody wanted cigarettes; you never got enough. And I’d say—I’d get the Hav-A-Tampa cigars because I would still smoke one of them once in a while. I kind of like them but I try not to. And I’d say, “Well, gather these cigarettes. I’ll get some for me too and give them to you guys but,” I’d say, “I get first pick out of there.” And nobody was having any issues with that, you know. Interviewer: Now, did you get an out of country R and R? (01:14:17) Veteran: Well, I liked saving the best for—like being old now—I hope I save the best for last. And I was there from February or even January and I saved it for November. And everybody else was let’s get out of here and, you know, but to me it was still like having something saved just before I went home. So, in late November I wound up going to Australia, to Sydney, Australia. Never left town hardly. Goofing around at all the bars and everything. And had about 400 bucks on me. That was a lot of money in 1970. And but so I did have like a 6 day—they flew you to �44 Australia and the whole deal and you cleaned it all up. But that’s something funny. In the airport, when you are in there, you got that group of people and they go, “Okay,” like you’re a classroom thing, “before you leave the airport here, you will buy two brand new suits and ties and matching shirts.” I still have all of that. And they say, “When you buy your stuff here and when you are done, you can go to town.” But that’s the kind of stuff…they were making us have these nice clothes and all that. Interviewer: Okay. And how did the Australians treat you? Veteran: Well, here we are in their bars. Mostly I was probably dealing with their girls a lot. And they were friendly enough. I mean, we were on the same side in all that. And I think it was just a rock band place that we went to all the time. Seems like the hotel bill for 5 or 6 days, and this is luxurious place, and you know, I don’t think—I don’t know if they had a pool. I wouldn’t have even known where that was. But I think it was $56 for 5 or 6 days. Interviewer: Wow. (01:16:19) Veteran: You know? So, I guess I spent it in the bar. Interviewer: Well yeah, got to buy the suits too. Veteran: Oh, well that was almost 100 bucks for the…and…but the first day I got there kind of—these girls know what the story is on these guys there. So, let’s say we hooked up for the week kind of thing. And I always said that I didn’t know that there was hillbillies in Australia because she was…wow. So much. It was hard to believe. You would think you was in Michigan. Interviewer: Alright. Okay, so was it harder to go back to Vietnam? Or was it just…? Veteran: From there? �45 Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Well, this was late November again. I was going home in a couple months. You know, I was confident enough. I had no issues about that. Let’s go, let’s get this done, you know. And I get back there December 1st or something. And I had less than two months to go before I went home. And it was happening that different people were going home a month or two early. But you didn’t hold your breath for that normally. Interviewer: Right. Okay. Now, do you go—when you go back, do you go back out in the field again? Veteran: Oh yeah, immediately. Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. Now, was it difficult when your unit took casualties and took losses? Because you mentioned a little bit off camera about being right next to somebody who gets killed or having been friends with somebody for a month and then they are gone. (01:18:05) Veteran: Yeah, it was kind of—but I always seemed like that being a point man never really hit any issues or landmines or nobody attacked me up there. And what happens a lot is once you get by or something, they might attack the back of your outfit or the middle. And it seems like…and they would come in and take a helicopter, but I am up there guarding the front trail. Or something like that that it was right there but that I didn’t necessarily—I wasn’t exposed to it. It seems. But… Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: There was plenty there. �46 Interviewer: So, you seemed to be usually in the right place at the right time. Veteran: I think I am a lucky fellow. Sort of, for some reason. Interviewer: Alright. Now, you think back about your—across your tour in Vietnam. Are there other particular memories that kind of stand out for you? Veteran: Well, when again—after the big battle and depleted outfit—we had a leader that we weren’t going to do anything particular going in any battles, so you wind up getting this guy. I guess he was a ranger or something, but we never understood how he got that. And we—super hot in the summer. June—July it would have been, and I don’t know why, and I am handing out the malaria pills and that. You take one every day I think it was and you take one a month kind of. And I wind up getting malaria. So, I wound up going really bad. You don’t want to do that. My temperature was as high as 103. I think it gave me mental health problems the rest of my life, probably. But so, I got shipped from Chu Lai down to China Beach. China Beach is the big hospital. Interviewer: Right. (01:20:16) Veteran: So, I am there for a while. And it’s a normal thing; you are supposed to be there 10 days. And they said, you know, they are going to tell you what is happening here, and you are going back. So, you know, get used to that. Well, I think in my deal where it was unusual: when you are in the hospital, you have your top on and you have pajama bottoms that separates you from the other soldiers because you were in the hospital, you know. And I am shooting the breeze with a guy in one of the offices and I won’t say why but he says, “You know something?” he says, “We are looking for a sergeant here and…” kind of like he was a clerk. But he says, “We need the sergeant for some duties. If you want to volunteer for this, you get—you’ll be here �47 a month.” And you know, did I owe anybody anything? I was having a pretty good time there and so I accepted this job that they had there. And basically, it was after breakfast, you had 100 men or something and they had a giant outdoor theater with the benches and had a huge screen in front. But it was all in the sand and everything and they had a regular projector that did Bullitt and all these cool movies every night. They did them twice a night in case you were on guard duty or something. But in the morning the place would be a disaster. That was my job to take these 100 Vietnam veterans, you know, out of the hospital and everything. They get done with breakfast, okay you guys: we got to clean this up. And they did what I told them. And I’d usually—could have had them do every sliver of it but I’d try to get them to do a pretty good job. Come on, let’s get this done because you ain’t leaving until I tell you. And I suppose they resented it but by golly, we got together and cleaned that theater out there and I’d kind of go okay, go ahead. You can leave, you know. If you want to stay and help…usually nobody ever did. And I would finish by myself but what the heck? I had 10 o’clock in the morning. I was there, you know, I had a great time of it. I don’t know about the bar and everything. The important thing is I had my teeth all done. And the average Vietnam soldier didn’t have that access. Yeah. I’d love to find that guy’s name, the dentist. (01:22:57) Interviewer: Alright. So, your unit didn’t mind that you were gone? Or did no one notice? Veteran: You are an individual out there. You get back…the times were changing so much, you know? The big battle, all them guys went. We were getting so many new guys in there. And I come back. I was already a squad leader and that. Well, you get back, okay, we need a squad leader here. You take these guys; I got that pitcher. And it was no big deal. Interviewer: You were commenting before we kind of got into that story about your new company commander and this guy you thought—was there a problem with him? Or…? �48 Veteran: Well, you know like one day I was…and I tried to be—things were pretty cool. I’d take the camera out, if you see the pictures, and I was taking a picture. He says, “You put that away.” Well, nobody ever said—nobody ever said anything like that. You know? And I had a little ammo pouch there for it, but we put it away. But he was just this way. An actual ranger too. But he—how the heck he made it as a ranger? Wow. He was little, short, scrunty. Wow. I just couldn’t get over what he must have been doing. But he was only out there a week. And as a force, people complained. He was gone. Interviewer: Okay. Was he just too much of a stickler for the rules? Or just trying to throw his weight around too much? Or…? (01:24:28) Veteran: I guess you would call it stickler for the rules. It’s—it wasn’t what we were doing out there, you know. And…I don’t know. It was a rare occasion where—if you got assigned to something, usually you did that. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah, you didn’t rotate officers out that quickly. Alright. Veteran: Oh never. They usually lasted. A 6-months tour was an officer’s tour and a lot of times they would stick around with their group for maybe the whole year. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Other particular incidents or things that stand out for you? Veteran: Well, at the end of that when I did come back and I had a…I had my squad and that’s a big thing, to have these. Well, only 5 or 6 guys there and you’re cutting point and that’s your little group you are with all the time. But the lieutenant in charge of the platoon and the big shot sergeant were different in there. And I think they were really, really party thing. And it was a different air of what was happening. Vietnam was. And we felt that too. It was…what do you call the de-escalation? People are— �49 Interviewer: Yeah, Vietnamization and all of that. Yep. Veteran: Definitely. And we are going home and so you get a different attitude. And we didn’t have most of that one platoon, or it was the company, that was wiped out quite a bit. And that’s something too. We went down into the valley, we wondered later oh, we heard we got attacked. 100 men got attacked by two battalions of the NVA, which later they commented they couldn’t believe that we were such a small outfit and put that much. And come to find out when we got back up on the hill, we had two companies behind us, and we went down in the hill. The first group? They never come off the hill. Lock, stock, and barrel at a time. So… My one friend was a little hostile when he got up there and found that out. Knocked somebody out. But that was very—that was Bob again. You know, the one with relatives? (01:26:55) Interviewer: Alright. Well, to follow up on that, kind of a couple of different things that you sort of mentioned in passing here. One of them was you were talking about when you rejoined the unit after time at China Beach and you had a new command team there and so forth. You said something about the partying? Or…? Veteran: Well, it seemed to be a different kind of thing out there. You could only do so much in the jungle. It ain’t like you had alcohol or— Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And the weed thing, you didn’t see that. Interviewer: Okay, but I guess they weren’t as good as some of the leaders you had had earlier? Veteran: Not at all. And here I was really the lead person in the platoon by far. �50 Interviewer: Oh yeah. Veteran: You know, there was no NCO in the platoon that I mean even had a minute in country. And then these two guys would not let me try to advise them or…I usually just would say this is how we do things here and this and this and this. Not trying to be a real, you know, stickler. I didn’t want to insult anybody but this, oh yeah this, we do this and this. And but they were really bad to the point that they took one of these guys that—the one that wouldn’t fire on the guy that snuck up on us. I mean, he was still only there a couple months and they replaced me. And then here I am kind of displaced. I think also too a real—it seems like a small part of the story—but October 1st, into this, and I am, you know, I am going to go home in a few months, but I got a letter. I wrote to a friend of mine that I went to basic training. And he was from Chelsea, Michigan. (01:28:46) Veteran: And wrote a letter to his—to him. Well, where is Hank and wanted to know where he was because I lost track of him in Vietnam, I believe it was. And didn’t write back and forth to most, just my mom I wrote to. Nobody else wrote to me. And she wrote a letter to me and, well, we were real sad. Hank got home the other—you know, like October 1st, and he got killed in a car accident the first day he was home. And here he is—served in Vietnam for a year. My best friend ever at the time. And I was looking forward to being—having a friend there. And I think that took a lot of gas out of me. And it was kind of around the time where I didn’t have my squad anymore, you know. And I think I went to the—maybe the command center. It might have been, you know, with them guys and their security or something. And it wasn’t the same though. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. You also mentioned this fellow Bob. What was he like or what was his story? �51 Veteran: Oh, he was fun. He was a real partier and, you know, drinking and the whole deal. And like I said, he claimed, well, to be a relative of the Kennedys or something. Some of the stuff he pulled? Never seen anything like that. Or they had a guy that was—oh, escaped. An American solider that was the bad guy. Going to our jail over there or something. And wow. And Bob gets to be the one, “Here’s a 45, Bob. You got a 3-day leave of absence. Kill this guy if he blinks,” kind of thing. But Bob got to go. You know? And you’d kind of believe people sort of. Or the guy that said his uncle was a, you know, a Wisconsin politician of some kind. And oh yeah, sure. But gee, he disappeared in a couple weeks. (01:30:56) Interviewer: Alright. And so, for you basically…Now as your—as you get short, do your duties change at all? Or do you just keep just doing— Veteran: Well, I had my platoon. I had my squad there and kind of, you know, one of the leaders in the whole platoon. And then was going into just being with the command center as their security. So, that’s basically nothing. I don’t think I—rarely did point or anything after that. Interviewer: Okay, so you are kind of with the command post rather than… Veteran: They actually sent me away from my platoon too, which was unusual. And we are out there in the middle of nowhere and back to those guys not following the rules. They said, “Well, okay. We are here and we are going to send you over there.” And you had to have a radio on you, and you had to have a…what was it? Three key things. Big deal is you had to have a radio with you and like there was three of us they sent over there. Interviewer: This was like a listening post? Or…? Veteran: When you are going over there, and you are going to get a couple miles through the jungle and you are coming on your own people, what if something happens? What if somebody �52 fires at me? Nobody has any idea. So, that’s the big deal about everybody has a radio, a fullfledged PRC 25. And but see those guys did that kind of thing. And I am going—I am really aggravated. I am afraid of going by myself. (01:32:34) Interviewer: Okay. But what was the point of having you that far out? Was that just to let them know if somebody was coming? Veteran: Well, we were in one platoon and operating, you know, in a mile or two or away from the main group here and there. And then never happens that you send this little group but and that’s one of—I am one of the guys. Kind of they are getting rid of me, I guess. Maybe I was a little vocal. Interviewer: There you go. Veteran: Saying how I thought it should be done and by golly you get going over there. I think— I think we had some real fire activity here or there at the end of the tour. And I am going like, you know, I don’t—I hear this firing going on up front but what do we do now? You can’t ask anybody any questions. But we did make it there okay. Interviewer: Alright. So, you are…now, how do you—how does your tour kind of wind up? How do you find out you are leaving and when and that kind of thing? Veteran: Well, it was…I guess I tried to be—I probably walked point or cut trail a little and some because I wasn’t completely doing nothing, but we were ready to go on, like we called these things, missions for a three week until who knows. Six weeks thing. And we were on Mary Ann there. And where you got all your supplies together to go on. You get your C-rations and make sure you got all your bullets and everything. And we were getting on a—the helicopters would come on there and they go, “Hey Johnson, get over here!” You know, it’s December 15th �53 or something. I got two—a month and a half to go. You know? And “Here. Go home.” So, November or December 16th or 17th or something, I am in the jungle and I was home the 20th. So, from eek to oh. Wow. Interviewer: Okay, so physically, how did they get you home? So, you get your orders, you are not going on a mission. So, now what? (01:34:43) Veteran: Well, you’re so far out there, it is only flying back to Chu Lai. And doing your orders over there and maybe you’ll be able to take a bath again. We never, never took a bath out there unless you’d sluice off in a stream, you’d say. But we went back to Chu Lai and I was only there a day or two and then they flew me from there. I just can’t remember how we went back and forth there. I flew in a 1—a C-130 before, which is like being in the back of a flatbed truck. Interviewer: Yeah, it’s a cargo plane. Veteran: Yeah. And went back to China… Interviewer: To…? Veteran: Cam Ranh Bay, yeah. Back there. And that was the main place where the jets come and go, the civilian jets. And I have the picture of the airplane that come and get me. I thought that’s kind of unusual for a person to actually—no big deal unless it was me. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Kind of thing but…and they put you all together. I did bring home an SKS that we captured in a large group of weapons and I guess it was probably my turn. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I brought that home. �54 Interviewer: Alright. And then how did—what’s the route flying back? (01:36:07) Veteran: Well, same as before: going from Cam Ranh Bay to—through Tokyo again. And back through Alaska; never been there before, you know, but…And then from there back to… Interviewer: Probably Fort Lewis. Veteran: Well yeah, Fort Lewis of course. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. Veteran: And… Interviewer: When you get off the plane at Fort Lewis, what kind of processing do you get? Veteran: Well, it was the same thing of physical. You know, they always check you and I have that, of course, record of you know I should see—I think I was 185. I think I am the same weight as I come home. I am kind of—I was 21 when I come home. And I showed you the picture of me coming off the plane. That’s kind of unusual. Cold as hell there and guys are getting off in jungle clothes, but I had a coat. And you go there, and you take your physical and all that and soon as you can, you are processed out there. And then I flew from Fort Lewis, Washington to Chicago. And it was very unusual. A couple guys that had been in NCO school with and they were very close friends. So, how the heck is this? I hadn’t seen them in over a year, and we are flying on that same flight. So, when we get to Chicago, we go in the bar and we still had our uniform. In fact, they—at that time, they required you to have your uniform on, dress uniform, to fly on the planes. Interviewer: Well, if you were going to fly standby, if you were going to fly the cheapest fare, you had to have the uniform. Because a lot of guys talk about how they would be told �55 to switch to civilian clothes. But if you had the uniform on, you could get the really cheap tickets. Veteran: To me it was if you didn’t have it, you weren’t getting on there kind of thing. And hey, I just wanted to get home. Interviewer: Right. Okay, so anyway, so you are in the bar with these guys, and you got your uniforms on. Veteran: Yep. Had a couple drinks. No big deal. We… Interviewer: So, you didn’t see any protesters or…? Veteran: No, no, never did. Never had that kind of an issue. Interviewer: Okay. And then, now you have been discharged at this point, right? Because— Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Yeah, because you got drunk. Veteran: You are out. I could have went to California if I would have wanted to. Interviewer: Okay. So, you get as far as Chicago and then what? (01:38:28) Veteran: What was kind of odd that it cost 13 bucks to fly from Chicago to Benton Harbor. I lived in Benton Harbor at the time. I—probably military discount or something. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, it wasn’t that odd. So, I put my duffel bag there which I hadn’t seen in a year either. When you get to Vietnam they say here, take this. And there is nothing you want in there. And �56 like you don’t need anything. And so, I got that back for going home. And I checked that into the airport. So, I am going to walk over to the plane, and it is only Chicago and I live, you know, I lived in Benton Harbor. And I see these people coming through the airport there and come to find out, it’s my sister’s best friend and her sister and her hus—they were picking up her husband. And I get a ride in a brand-new Thunderbird home with a very—I mean, that’s off the wall there. Interviewer: Did you get your bag back? Veteran: I went to Benton Harbor the next day and they flew it over there and I just picked it up. It was easier that way but how off the wall was that? Interviewer: Alright. So, you get back home. You are out of the Army. Do you go back to work right away or what do you do? Veteran: Well, when I got home, it was December 20th or something. And my ma’s ’63 Chevy hardtop was sitting there in the driveway. I am freezing but I think I had a coat on. And I—she wasn’t home kind of in the evenings for some reason. So, I sat down in the car and for a while until she got home later. But the rest of that is you had—to me it was—maybe it was my company, or some people say they have a year to go back to work. But they told us 90 days. I guess I believe a lot of these things. (01:40:23) Veteran: And I bought a car within 5 days: a ’66 Chevelle. I loved that car. And then I had over $3000 cash, that was a lot of money, being a sergeant over there. And there was a lot of people that got home without—with less than 1000. So, they went there in the war and the whole thing, they come back without a dime. Well, I thought I better spend the rest of this money. And I bought a ’59 Corvette a month after I got home. So, I kind of patched that up and everything. �57 And I had a friend in Florida that was living down there and he wrote me a couple times. He was my friend before I went in and I went to visit him. I had three months before I had to report in and so I went and stayed with him. He was a tree trimmer and doing stuff like that, which was really—that was my cup of tea. I still like that stuff. And so, I visited with him for a while, but I had to be at work at a certain day to get my seniority and all that back. So, I wanted to go back to Avion Coach and so I went to Florida for…oh, a month and a half or something. And I really enjoyed it down there. And I probably could have stayed I guess but what the heck? I had a job and everything in Michigan. So, I was glad I came back. Interviewer: Alright. Now, how easy or hard was it to adjust to civilian life again? Veteran: I guess I was probably proud of myself, all by myself. I had a good job, I had sort of a family outfit that I worked for. I worked in a woodshop too at that place and I kind of liked that kind of a deal. And I thought they treated me pretty fair. And so, that was pretty easy. And it wasn’t very much longer I wound up getting a brand-new double-wide next to the factory where I walked to work every day. So, and I come home for lunch. So, that was, you know, easy going, I guess. Interviewer: Okay. So, a lot of guys talk about how they had to learn a different vocabulary when they got back or that kind of thing. Did you have to? Or did you never get much into swearing a lot when you were in Vietnam and…? (01:42:51) Veteran: I am bad now. Interviewer: Okay. �58 Veteran: I am really bad. I wish I could get away from that. I don’t think we really got into that. I think…or even about every time you spoke to somebody, you never spoke more than you had to. And at night it was really toned down. You know? And it maybe cools you out a little bit but… Interviewer: Okay. And did you have any of the kind of PTSD reactions where you are startled by loud noises, or you are suspicious of different things or— Veteran: Yeah, that’s… Interviewer: --things or…? Veteran: Yeah, that’s—I think I always did that. Just eventually shrug it off but I know. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, I guess as you look over the time you spend in the service, what do you think you took out of that or how did that effect you? Veteran: Well, other than kind of doing a good job for our country, that was part of the idea. And what did I take out of it? I—like I say, there was a lot of camaraderie during that couple years and I was with large groups at a time and that was…what do you call? A civil thing, interacting with people and all that. And now I live in a little county town—tiny town that you could put in this building here. You know, and…I don’t know what I learned much. (01:44:33) Interviewer: Okay. I mean, do you think—were you any different when you got home than when you left? Veteran: I didn’t think so, but our reaction is—weren’t talking to anybody about it. Didn’t have anybody to talk about it and especially family never ask. And to this day still, you know, and I don’t bring it up. Interviewer: Alright. But have you— �59 Veteran: They have never seen those pictures. Interviewer: Okay. Yeah, because you have got a—you have got those pictures that you took. And I guess but you are involved with some veterans’ groups? Or you—at least with your own unit? Veteran: Well, the last 20 years I have been going to the Battle Creek veterans for my own health thing but and kind of surprised me for different reasons. This group that called me, they were there before I was. But they still invited this—it was just the platoon together. Like 20 to 30 guys. And so, I started going to that at about, oh, 15 years ago. And I go most every year. We are going to Branson, Missouri this year. And one of the things I noticed about that is let’s say there is 20 of us in the group that—I think there was one or two bachelors that ever come to the thing. They were in bad shape. I drank way too much but some of these guys, like this one that—he doesn’t come anymore but I am the only bachelor. And that’s why these guys are still there and healthy is they have a bunch of original wives that have taken good care of each other and everything and I think I am kind of a different person in the group. And I am not afraid to go talk to the ladies and how you doing, and, you know, and they know who I am enough that…some of the guys knew me. (01:46:41) Interviewer: Okay. So, basically this is sort of—you were kind of maybe there at the end of the time when a lot of that group was there? Veteran: Yes. Yeah. And…one—well, like when I was introduced to the—those guys—and somebody said, “Oh yeah, this is Sergeant Johnson,” the guy—and I think I was actually going to shake his hand or something, which would have been forbidden in the jungle. You didn’t do �60 that kind of thing, or you can salute or anything. But he goes, he looks at me, he goes, “I know who he is.” You know? And there, that’s my welcome to the outfit. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And never another word said about it. You know? Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah, but a real good group of guys. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. Well, you certainly have got an interesting story. Veteran: Oh boy. Interviewer: It winds up in a lot of different places but that’s what we are here for. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So, I’d just like to thank you for taking the time to share it. Veteran: Okay, good. Interviewer: Alright. (01:47:40) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonC2339V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Chester Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-11 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Chester (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Chester Johnson was born in South Haven, Michigan, in 1949. He attended high school in Benton Harbor and graduated in 1967. Chester was drafted into the Army in January 1969. He completed basic training at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He did his advanced individual training at Fort McClellan, Alabama. Chester then went to non-commissioned officer (NCO) school at Fort Benning, Georgia. He was sent to Vietnam in early 1970, where he was assigned to B company, 1st battalion, 196th regiment of the light infantry brigade. During his time in Vietnam, Chester was involved in various skirmishes. He was part of a group that was sent into Laos on a patrol mission. He went on R and R in Australia in November 1970. He returned home from Vietnam in December 1970. Chester is currently involved with a veterans’ group in Battle Creek, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/28299a55ad220d68aeba104749d0d4d5.jpg ebd82fa188e0a94132769568857d798e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDarrell Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Darrell Description An account of the resource Darrell Johnson, Admissions Director Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1991s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01e4c64f0ddeafadce3ac1177a01fcf5.mp4 d34df26fe75546aedba3393e8f76fd38 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ca82835f3c4958be97225381343bfaac.pdf 1afaacf8951c3f7c810715f916a30fdc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Donald Johnson (01:05:00) (00:10) Before Joining the Service • • • Donald went to South High school in Grand Rapids, MI It was a good school; they treated the few German and Japanese students well He enlisted because he had wanted to join the Navy and his dad and brother had both been in the Navy (1:30) First Days in Service • • • • • • It was strenuous, enjoyable, and different It was like a fun training camp They had to run everyday He first went to Great Lakes Boot Camp He was then off to sea on the USS President Polk on the Pacific Ocean He was shipped off immediately after boot camp (2:30) Most Memorable Time on Ship • Going through a typhoon; a lot of water crashed on top of the ship near Okinawa, but everyone was ok afterwards (3:05) Passing of Extra Time • • • He worked every day and played cards at night He was a clerk/secretary during the day, taking care of records for engineers Donald also helped with Court Martial records (4:00) Never Celebrated Holidays • • They were at sea when Roosevelt died; it was April at the time and they were just coming into Pearl harbor He did not receive any Christmas letters from his relatives until April (4:45) Life Without the Military • • He could have went to college instead, yet he is happy with the decisions he has made in the past Donald believes that everyone should spend some time in the service (5:20) Food • It was pretty good food, but it was all powdered �• • • • • No one liked the food at first, but they all got used to it They were able to consume three meals a day There was lots of sheep and mutton, which he hated He also did not like Australian food Every Wednesday they had beans for breakfast (6:10) Combat • • • • • He experienced combat three times They were disembarking troops in the Philippines with MacArthur Combat with troops in Okinawa There was also a Kamikaze attack near the Philippines They would constantly move troops around to avoid the Japanese (7:30) Change in World Perspective • • He was too young at the time to take in the whole experience He just wanted to get back to regular life (7:50) Friends in the Service • • He made good friends; he met Bob who became one of his best friends He would enlist all over again given the chance (8:35) Positive Experience • In the service, you experience growth very quickly (9:15) Living Quarters • They slept three deep, but it was comfortable (10:15) Post-War Life • • • Afterwards, he worked on the railroad He went to school for GM for six months, but he hated that He later went into the carpentry business, which was enjoyable because he liked building houses, it gave him a good life and a good living (11:15) The Last Days in the Service • • He was discharging US POWs in Chicago when he was released and then he came back to Grand Rapids The war was over and he was no longer needed (12:05) Pearl harbor • At the time he had been working a long shift at a truck store and heard of it on the news (12:45) Veterans Organizations/Activities �• • He has been part of the American Legion for 55 years He has attended two reunions for the ship, yet most men from that time are now dead (14:00) Going Over Pictures • • • Pictures of the luxury liner ship in 1940 Pictures of when he was in the Navy Going over various trips which there are pictures of (16:45) First Impressions of the Ship • • • It looked scary He has pictures of all the crew They crossed over the equator many times (19:20) 65 Years Ago • • • The war was long ago and he is very old now It is strange that so much time has passed since then He used to go with friends to Pearl Harbor to drink (22:00) Talking About Football and Basketball (23:00) Working on the Ship • • • • • • • They started at 8am every day Everyone worked seven days a week There was much help needed to run the ship and there was no such thing as a day off Donald only worked during the day He worked in an office because he was good at typing It was a good thing that he took that extra typing class in school otherwise he would have had to work in the engine room He had the most “cushy” job on the ship (26:00) The Dentist • There was a dentist on his ship, yet not many men had dental problems on his ship • When they met up with other ships those men needed lots of dental work and the dentist finally got something to do (26:40) The Surgeon • He only operated once on the ship because the men did not experience much combat (28:00) Don’s Special job • Every day he had to figure out how far the ship had traveled in miles • He had to calculate how much fuel and water they used • He would then turn his charts into an engineering officer • There was also a navigator that figured their traveling distance by the stars �• They had automatic steering on the ship, but it is still antique compared to today’s standards (31:50) Islands in the Middle of the Ocean • When they first spotted the various small islands, they always thought they were finally landing at an actual country • There are tons of small islands throughout the ocean that no one has ever heard of • No one lives on the islands • In the Pacific there is no thunder and no lightening, yet there are bad storms with lots of wind • New Guinea has lots of mountains (34:05) The Island of New Guinea • There are lots of people living in New Guinea [New Caledonia} • They speak French and it is near Australia • There was a bar in New Guinea they always went to, with really short ceilings and it was very smoky • He remembers weird things like that bar • Donald wonders what island people even do for a living because they would have to import everything except vegetables and livestock (36:30) Rubber • We needed rubber during the war; “that was what half the fight was over.” • They also needed silk; “you never hear of silk anymore.” • Women used to wear lots of silk • The Japanese had taken the rubber and silk away from us when they invaded all the small Pacific Islands • Donald does believe that rubber bands are even made from actual rubber anymore (38:15) Island Near Australia • There was lots of palm oil, like maple syrup • In Guam there were big plantations where they made soap and cream; they are probably not in business anymore • Everything is synthetic now; you never see rubber trees (40:00) Future Outlook • Everything moved so slow until the 19th century, now everything is so fast paced • Young people today will not see so much change, but anything could happen in the future (40:50) The Service • He never had anything against the service • He doesn’t remember anyone ever being afraid while they were there • They got up one hour before sunrise in the mornings to look for submarines • No one was scared of being hit by a submarine, they just wanted to spot them • Ground service in the Army would be frightening �(42:40) The “Blacks” • “Blacks” were a little strange • There were 26 black people on the ship, but they were segregated • They never saw them on the ship; they worked for officers and served food • They were a different culture at the time (43:45) Kamikazes • He was standing on the upper level of the ship with his friend Bob when Kamikazes started flying above them • One hit the ship right in front of them and knocked lots of people into the water • The next one missed and landed in the water; it was not hard to miss a ship • It was like watching a bomb coming at you; there was nowhere to go (44:55) The Philippines • There were very different people there; they did not know anything; they were like animals • They did not take baths or brush their teeth; it was a hard thing to see • They ate food from the trees and did not wear any clothes (46:40) New Guinea • No one wore clothes there; it was like a “porn show” • The women were not allowed to wear shirts because the sunshine protected them from TB (47:30) The Service Today • It is so advanced; it’s a whole different world • Donald does not know if it is worse or better • It seems impossible that we were once in the Dark Ages and people had the plague • We were barbarians; history is hard to comprehend; there were so many wars in the past • The king of England set up the Magna Carta and then there were normal governments • Donald does not understand how people lived like that in the past � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonD Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Johnson served in the Navy during WW II. He traveled mostly aboard a luxury ship that had been remodeled into a Navy ship. Johnson's crew traveled throughout the Pacific to Australia, Guam, and the Philippines. Johnson experienced combat three times while in the Pacific and also discussed his experience with Japanese Kamikazes. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sayfie, Aaron (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High Schools (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e8dde90fda421d2504e36d1c8ce59835.pdf d8bfceda2e9990742baf4144b0a6d560 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Donald C. Johnson World War II 1 hour 32 minutes 30 seconds (00:00:08) Early Life -Born in Lindsay, Nebraska in 1922 -Father worked as a contractor -Moved to a farm seven miles from Lindsay in 1924 -Only child -Grew up on the farm -Remembers the Stock Market Crash of 1929 -Came as a shock to his father -Life got harder as the Great Depression continued -Life was a little easier for them at first because his family owned a farm -Able to grow their own crops and raise their own livestock -Had to deal with dust storms caused by the drought -Concerned about whether they could continue to feed themselves and their livestock -Graduated from high school in 1941 -Felt fortunate that he was able to go to school -Went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1941 to help with the harvests -Worked north into Kansas then back to Nebraska -After Nebraska went to South Dakota and worked on the harvests there -Worked into North Dakota all the way up to the Canadian border -Rain hampered the harvest in North Dakota -Returned to Nebraska in late October 1941 to help with the corn harvest -Had to do it on his own because his father had suffered a sun-stroke (00:09:07) Start of the War -On December 7, 1941 Japan bombed Pearl Harbor -Heard about the attack late in the afternoon that Sunday -Went into town and heard the news -Things changed dramatically in the days following the attack on Pearl Harbor -Congress declared war on Japan on December 8 and on Germany on December 11 -Rationing went into effect -On January 1, 1942 he went to Martin Aircraft School in Omaha, Nebraska -Did that so he could get a job working in an aircraft factory for the defense industry -Knew the attack on Pearl Harbor had dealt a significant blow to the Pacific Fleet -Noticed that everyone became focused on the war effort and fighting until the U.S. won -Aircraft school lasted two months -Had to take a physical and learned that he had a hernia -Made him ineligible for work until he got it treated �-Had surgery in Omaha -Took fifteen days to recover and only costed $75 -Got hired by Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor Company in Buffalo, New York -Went to work on May 1, 1942 -Worked for them for five and a half months (00:16:05) Enlisting in the Army Air Force -On June 30, 1942 he registered for the draft then went back to work -Knew if he was drafted he would get drafted into the infantry -Did not want to get drafted into the infantry -Enlisted in the Army Air Force because he felt it would be a better fit -Reported for duty on October 1, 1942 -Only twenty years old at the time -Needed his parents' permission because he wasn't twenty one years old -Father agreed to it because he didn't want Donald to be an infantryman -Fascinated with planes, but didn't want to become a pilot -Couldn't become a pilot because he startled easily (00:22:12) Basic Training -Went to basic training by train -Went on marches and days started early during basic training -Took basic training in Rome, New York -Most likely Rome Air Depot -Received physical training -Placed on guard duty at night after a few weeks -Ordered to give three warnings to an approaching vehicle then shoot -Armed with a sawed off shotgun -On one occasion he was tested to see if he reacted properly to an approaching vehicle -He reacted well and was commended for it -Took further tests to see what his classification would be (00:26:18) Assignment -Sent to Syracuse Army Air Base in Syracuse, New York after basic training -Classified as an Army Aircraft Mechanic -Meant he would be a flight engineer and a gunner aboard a bomber -At Syracuse between Christmas 1942 and New Year's Eve 1942 (00:30:01) Army Aircraft Mechanic Training -Sent to Tyndall Field, Florida for aerial gunnery training there -Flew in an AT-6 -Fired at tow-targets pulled by another plane -Trained with machine guns -Had painted rounds to see which gunner hit the target -Did well with that except for accidentally severing the tow-target cable once -Trained at Tyndall for three months -Sent to Sheppard Field, Texas for aircraft mechanic school -Received six months of training �-Learned about B-25 and B-26 engines -Wound up assigned to a B-24 in the future (00:34:42) Training with the 461st Bombardment Group Pt. 1 -Sent to Mountain Home Army Air Base, Idaho -Bored and waiting for something to happen -New pilots were training with the B-24 at Mountain Home -He was assigned to a new B-24 crew in the 764th Squadron, 461st Bombardment Group -There were ten men in a B-24 crew -He was assigned to the waist gun position -Did aerial training as a crew during the day and night -Flew training missions as far south as Texas -On one training mission they were returning to base at night and almost hit another B-24 -The prop wash was so strong it cracked their plane's windshield -Had numerous other close calls -Remembers a few crashes while training at Mountain Home -Received two months of training at Mountain Home -First phase and second phase training -Allowed ten days of delayed en route -Meant he could go home for six days to spend time with his family and friends -Reported to Hammer Field in Fresno, California in November 1943 -Completed third phase training at Hammer Field -More training missions during the day and at night -Didn't know whether they were going to the Pacific Theatre or the European Theatre -Assumed they were going to the Pacific Theatre -Didn't want to go to the Pacific after hearing about atrocities committed by the Japanese (00:48:52) Deployment to the European Theatre Pt. 1 -In mid-January 1944 they left Hammer Field in a new B-24 -Flew up to San Francisco (00:49:47) Training with the 461st Bombardment Group Pt. 2 -On one training mission they started leaking gas -Caused a fire on one of the engines -Happened because of a mechanical problem with one of the gas caps on the wing -Able to land and fix the problem without incident (00:54:42) Deployment to the European Theatre Pt. 2 -En route to San Francisco their third engine was running too hot -He was able to fix it -Ordered to fly to Florida -Stopped at Midland, Texas -Knew they were bound of the European Theatre at that point -Hit some bad weather in Texas -Flew to Tennessee then to Florida -Received orders, but they were told not to open their orders until after fifteen minutes -Opened their orders immediately because they wanted to know where they were going �-Learned they were going to be based in Italy -Stopped in the Caribbean then flew to Brazil -Had to do a 500 hour inspection in Brazil -Repairing anything on the B-24 that needed attention -Replaced spark plugs -Flew to Dakar, Senegal -In the middle of the desert -Sand was bad for aircraft engines -Took nearly twelve hours to fly from Brazil to Senegal -Had some navigation problems -Flew to Marrakesh, Morocco then on to Tunis -Flew over the Atlas Mountains -Waited in Tunis for their airfield to be ready (01:03:55) Stationed at Torretto Field, Italy & Flying Missions -Stationed at Torretto Field, Italy near the town of Cerignola -Got to Italy in February 1944 -Rendezvoused with other bombers from the 461st Bombardment Group -Runway was soft at Torretto Field -Caused one bomber to lose its landing gear upon landing -Flew his first mission on April 3, 1944 over Yugoslavia -Easy bombing mission -In June 1944 they bombed a target in Wiener Neustadt, Austria -Bombed factories in southern Germany and Austria -Bombed targets in the Balkans, southern France, and northern Italy -There was a high concentration of German troops in northern Italy -During the raid on Wiener Neustadt they lost their #2 engine -German fighter planes shot down stragglers that fell out of formation -Lost their #3 engine -Dove under the clouds to throw off the German planes -Can only assume the Germans thought they were crashing and left them alone -Bombed targets in Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria -Participated in the bombing of the oil fields at Ploesti, Romania -During the raid at Wiener Neustadt they decided to land at the Partisan strip at island of Vis -They continued to lose engine power -Ordered to dump their auxiliary generator -Would have been suicide because that's the only power they had left -He removed the wires, but didn't ditch the generator -Ordered to reconnect the generator so they could get to Vis -Finally made it to the island of Vis -Watched a B-17 in front of them crash into the mountains -Stayed there for three or four days and a C-47 brought them back to Italy -Continued with missions after getting a new bomber -Last major mission was during the invasion of southern France on August 15, 1944 �-Bombed submarine pens on the coast of southern France -Not much opposition because the Germans had retreated (01:23:37) End of Service & Life after the War -Decided he didn't want to go back into farming -Father sold the family farm and moved into town -Wound up being better since his father was aging and had poor health -Discharged on August 30, 1945 -Went to work in Newman Grove, Nebraska for International Harvester -Married in 1947 -Moved to Omaha with his wife -Worked for Watson Brothers Transportation for fifteen years -Worked for UPS until he was sixty nine years old -Raised a family -Had a daughter and two sons -Both sons are deceased -Both committed suicide, one in 1982 and one in 1996 -One son served in the Air Force in the Vietnam War -Committed suicide because of what he experienced during the war -Served as a cargo pilot delivering assault rifles near the end of the war -Vietnamese civilians tried to board his cargo plane -Got as many of them aboard as he could -People climbed into the wheel wells to escape -Many fell to their death as a result of that -He didn't see the point of doing it when Vietnam was lost -Manufacturers wanted their guns delivered to turn a profit � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JohnsonD1801V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Donald C (Interview outline), 2005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-10-21 Description An account of the resource Donald C. Johnson was born in 1922 in Lindsay, Nebraska. Enlisted in the Army Air Force in summer 1942 and reported for duty on October 1, 1942. Received basic training at Rome Air Depot, New York and was classified as an Army Aircraft Mechanic (flight engineer and gunner) at Syracuse Army Air Base, New York. He received Gunner Training at Tyndall Field, Florida and Flight Engineer Training at Sheppard Field, Texas. Sent to Mountain Home Army Air Base, Idaho where he joined a B-24 crew in the 764th Squadron of the 461st Bombardment Group. He trained there then went to Hammer Field where they received more training. In mid-January 1944 they left the U.S. and arrived at Torretto Field, Italy in February 1944. They began flying missions in April 1944 bombing targets in northern Italy, southern Germany, Austria, southern France, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria. He was discharged on August 30, 1945. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Donald C. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Staples, Jessica (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air ForcesOral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5d17db454ce74b745bfb27be181158a.jpg cb6253dcadbdccd71c86407b1cf095f5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/385dafa9cb2c210c1a8ebe245e18bb4d.jpg a36ac0cc11bce39608ac0a6550fc4233 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1990s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6bbe5052277ff2b9677951a92e724297.jpg 22c99d8387c0e7736a49981616b49099 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/129c708db00eefafe3e55c3eff1fa43d.jpg 2479c412f378442b5657869cd829b56b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/64e3642e0e6b6ce0bb2c550641d7a198.jpg fd0c2880e563c9d640a431e247789851 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8c50b33fd3e9e8690cc6571fbabce9ee.jpg 0951a5a0deee5effef5868ffb70bee6d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1986 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1986s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cfc78862fd0f363c2318652f890a4529.jpg 3d343f51dead173e605b0dfc7f5e9f27 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb492bade5716eaf1851388d40558a43.jpg a2bc76c22bab757df09278c7c12cd1bf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonDorothy_Photo08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Johnson, Board of Trustees 1995-2011 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b0d3144e22965e68f5e272d0443332b2.pdf 2389689b0016701c20005fa56d431ec1 PDF Text Text Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Johnson Center for Philanthropy Grand Valley State University Oral History Interview with Dorothy A. Johnson, May 5, 2011 The Council of Michigan Foundations, Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University (GVSU), and GVSU Libraries’ Special Collections & University Archives present: An oral history interview with Dorothy “Dottie” Johnson, May 5, 2011. Conducted by Dr. James Smither of the History Department at GVSU. Recorded at GVSU, Grand Rapids, Michigan. This interview is part of a series in the Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project documenting the history of philanthropy in Michigan. Preferred citation: Researchers wishing to cite this collection should use the following credit line: Oral history interview with Dorothy A. Johnson, May 5, 2011. "Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project," Johnson Center Philanthropy Archives of the Special Collection & University Archives, Grand Valley State University Libraries. James Smither (JS): We’re talking today with Dorothy Johnson, better known as Dottie Johnson, of Grand Haven, Michigan, who has had a long career in philanthropy. We’re doing this interview as part of a series for the Johnson Center on the study of Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University. The interviewer is James Smither of the History Department at Grand Valley. Now, Dottie, can you begin with some background on yourself. Start with, if you don’t mind, where and when were you born? Dorothy Johnson (DJ): Oh my goodness, James. I was born in Los Angeles, California, September 29th, 1940. My parents had built their home in 1935 in Inglewood, on Park Circle, better known as Morningside Park. (JS): And what did your family do for a living at that time? (DJ): My father worked at Paramount Motion Picture Studios for 40 years, on the back lot. He had nothing to do with any of the theatricals. He was head of the scenic department; made sure all the pieces went together. And I recall, he let my brother come and work there during the summers, but he was not interested in having his daughter do that. My mom was a volunteer. It wasn’t until I was in college when she went into real estate, and was quite a business woman. 1 �(JS): With your father working on movie lots, did you ever get to go see him at work? (DJ): Oh yes. In fact, many of my friends certainly enjoyed birthday parties, getting to go to the back lot. I mean this goes way back. We saw, some of the old movies. Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, Dorothy Lamour, they sent Christmas cards, it was kind of fun. (JS): Alright, now what kind of education did you have? (DJ): I went to public schools, had a fine education in California. California’s public school system then was really one of the top in the nation. After graduating from Morningside High School, I went to the University of California at Berkeley. I was there for four years, majored in Speech, got very involved with student government. Actually was vice president of the student body and through that had the opportunity of meeting people like John Kennedy, President Kennedy, Robert Frost, the first Russian astronaut. I had an office. I didn’t even realize it when I ran for office, I was paid $85 a month, and a secretary. What a deal! (JS): Did you have an idea of where you wanted to go or what you wanted to do after that? (DJ): Well, actually, at Berkeley, I was a Speech major, and I wanted to be a teacher, I thought. In the interim, I learned of the Harvard Radcliff Program for Women in Business, which is the first year of the Harvard Business School. This is a program that had been in existence about 43 years, a graduate program. We had the same classes, the same courses, the same cases as first year students at the Harvard Business School, who only admitted men. Harvard Business School was the last graduate school at Harvard to admit women. Anyway, I had the distinction of being in the last class. It’s hysterical now to go to reunions and find yourself the “youngest” at those reunions. I did not complete my MBA; I met my husband there, who was also at the Harvard Business School. He convinced me that it was a very good thing to be married immediately. In hindsight, do I wish I had my MBA from Harvard? Yes. But as he said to me at the time and it’s proven to be true, “What can you do with it that you can’t and haven’t done without it?” (JS): Was he farther ahead of you at school or the same year? (DJ): Oh, do I have to tell? He’s five years, five and a half years older than I am. So he wanted to get on. We moved to New York City. I worked for J. Walter Thompson. There were twelve men in an executive, junior executive training program, and one woman: me. (JS): How did you get into that? Was there just a network connection kind of thing out of Harvard? How did that work? 00:04:50 (DJ): Yes, there are connections. As part of the year that I had, I spent six weeks at J. Walter Thompson. Those were called internships. Frankly, my boss had attended the 2 �Harvard Business School and I think he was curious to see what a woman could do. I’ll never forget, my first week on the job, the head of then Life Magazine, which no longer publishes, the head of advertising took me to lunch at Danny’s Hideaway. He sat there and drank two martinis while I drank iced tea. I was much more comfortable talking to him about his children that were older than I am than about the latest media campaign. Later I asked him, “Why did you invite me for lunch then?” and he said, “Because if you make it big time, I’ll always be able to say, I took you to lunch your first week.” [laughs] (JS): So you’d impressed somebody. (DJ): Oh, I don’t know about that. (JS): What kind of work did they have you doing? (DJ): I was a media space buyer, looking at demographics. This goes back so far, I remember the computer that we had, which now today is handheld, took up an entire room. There were binary cards and flashes and such. We did analysis work, and we worked with what the pursuits of the clients were and what media match that you might have. (JS): Were there any big or large accounts you worked with? Or brands or things we would have heard of? (DJ): Oh yes. I worked on many large accounts because particularly then that was J. Walter Thompson’s niche, Lever Brothers, some of the soap products. I have to say; sometimes it was a little difficult to get excited about a soap product. But it was more watching the results of the advertising, seeing the sales that would be generated, and the importance of all of that. (JS:) How long did you stay in that? 00:06:55 (DJ): We were there just for two years. From New York, my husband suggested that we move to Grand Haven, Michigan, where there were some family businesses. Fortunately, he and many others put together JSJ Corporation. So ultimately, Mart became CEO of JSJ. I was 25 years old, moved from New York City, having lived in Los Angeles, Boston, and San Francisco. It was a bit of a surprise. You know, to be honest, you couldn’t blast me out of there now. I threw myself into the volunteer circuit at that point. (JS): What kind of work did your husband’s business do? (DJ): He’s a graduate chemical engineer with an MBA, but it’s a diversified manufacturing business, automobile parts, boring things. 3 �(JS): So they’re manufacturing things. What was the first thing you volunteered for or signed up for once you got out to Michigan? (DJ): [laughs] I have such a funny story on volunteering. We had been here four or five days. We received a call from my husband’s old boss, Jim Perille, who said, “Friends of ours are going to live in Grand Rapids, and I’m going to be there, and couldn’t we get together?” Ultimately we invited them to come to brunch at our home on a Sunday. Audrey Snite, who was then chairman of the West Michigan Girl Scout Council, came and we talked. Keep in mind; we didn’t even have children at this point. Before it was over, she asked me if I would serve on the board and be vice chair. So I said, “Audrey, let me learn a little bit more about the Girl Scouts.” I had been a Girl Scout, so I certainly was…but that’s how that all started. Truly, things happened in rapid fire. I was raw meat, 25 years old; I had worked in advertising, and now I’m living in this small town. It wasn’t too many years later I was asked to be on the state United Way board, the state Arts Council board, and then one thing led to another. (JS): Did you have a family as well? (DJ): I am very pleased to tell you we have two daughters. They are now; one daughter is living in St. Louis, another right here, she’s a doctor married to a doctor, in Grand Rapids. Growing up, let me say, we wanted a family, thought it would happen immediately. And when it didn’t, that is when I ensconced myself in volunteerism. Eventually, it did. Our daughters are very close in age; we’re a very tight knit family, which is very special to us. But, by volunteering for these organizations…oh, let me say also, I was one of two women, first women on the Grand Haven Area Planning Commission. I was doing a lot of different things. I realized that I wanted to focus my life. It needed some focus. About that time, two leaders in Grand Haven, Vin Erickson and Miller Sherwood, worked together to create the Grand Haven Area Community Foundation. At that time, I was asked to be a member, and then to serve on the board. So I was helpful to them, in fact served as the third president. 00:10:44 If you’re asking me where this all came from, so I worked on the Community Foundation, coincidently was invited to go to then the Conference of Michigan Foundations. I had laundry piled up everywhere and two little rug rats running around. I thought that was a pretty good deal. At the same time, I needed to focus. So I went to this conference, sat between Harding Mott and Stanley Kresge. Before it was over, keep in mind I was quite young then, they asked me to join their board. So I did. Talk about circumstance, and this was fluke. And then, and you have to stop me when you want to, because this story goes on and on. There was a staff position became available, 15 hours a week, and I raised my hand and said, “I’m interested.” They weren’t so sure I was interested. I said, “No, I’m serious.” I commuted to Grand Rapids to work with the Council of Michigan Foundations. I was the sole staff person. I was supposed to work 15 hours, I probably worked close to 40. After a while, I suggested that we move the office to Grand Haven, Michigan and the board supported that. John Hunting was extremely 4 �helpful. He shared the office space with the Conference. And there’s a whole story to tell about how Russ Mawby put that all together. (JS): I would like to back up a little bit here. Explain the time you got involved, and what was the Conference of Michigan Foundations doing, and why was it over here and not say over by Detroit, where everything else is? (DJ): Interestingly, it was then called the Conference of Michigan Foundations which became the Council of Michigan Foundations. Russ Mawby, who was then the CEO of the Kellogg Foundation, recognized after the 1969 Tax Reform Act, when literally twothirds of the tax act that year dealt with foundations that we needed to tell our story better. Thus, he invited nine people, and they decided in turn to have a conference. I, as a board member of the Grand Haven Area Community Foundation, received an invitation. So that’s how I personally got involved. Then, as things evolved, they had a staff develop, which was two years later. I must say, giving any advice to a student is, volunteer for everything. Do it. Be present. Be creative. When the staff position became available, I accepted that. We’ve grown today; the association has offices in three cities and a large, large program. (JS): Is some of the reason for its location in West Michigan because that’s where there are a lot of private foundations and so forth? (DJ): Originally Kellogg, being in Battle Creek is why Russ convened that. Fortunately in our state, if you think about it, there’s Flint, with the Mott Foundation, Dow Foundation in Midland, and of course Battle Creek, and Grand Rapids has numerous foundations, but they’re not as large as some of the others, although that may change over time. Quite honestly, I think the board appreciated having the office in Grand Haven, which was not a threat to anybody. Many associations go to Lansing, but we wanted to do things beyond tax policy. All it meant was a lot of driving. Don’t ask me how many miles I put on cars. (JS): Moving to Grand Haven then inspired the thing. (DJ): Yes. (JS): You’re bringing up two girls while you’re doing all of this. Did you bring them along to stuff that you went to or find other stuff for them to do? (DJ): Actually I was very fortunate. I had been volunteering, and I really didn’t start fulltime work until our children were in kindergarten and in first grade. I also was blessed beyond blessed, with a woman by the name of Cory Hyma, who still works with us 40 years later, who was very thoughtful in helping us with our children. It also helped coming from a family, my husband’s family had sisters who would at a moment take a child to a ballet lesson or a birthday party. As they say, it takes a village. (JS): You do the same kinds of things relying on family and your friends and whatever else is available. 5 �00:15:33 (DJ): You know, this is a good point. I look at life as you throw balls in the air, your marriage, your children, your career, your volunteer work, your friends. They can’t all stay up there at the same height at the same moment. It’s a matter of keeping a fair balance. (JS): As you were getting very actively into this larger scale of organized philanthropy and started being on the boards of these foundations and working with what becomes the Council [of Michigan Foundations], were you often the only woman in the room? Or by then had they started to open up more and have more of a balance? (DJ): Interesting question. Actually, I was the first [outside] woman on the Kellogg Foundation Board. I would say back then, and that was in 1980, it was unusual. There’s a story even with that. The then CEO Russ Mawby, who had known me through these years of developing the Council, asked me in my professional role to help him diversify the board and find some women. So I remember coming home that night and saying to my husband, “You’ll never guess what I get to do now, and that’s find the right woman for the Kellogg Foundation. I would love to do that and I know I could.” But that’s not going to come over the transom. So I diligently put a superb list together with background information on each candidate. We had set a meeting date three weeks later and Russ, when I got to the meeting, said to me, “How about you?” I said you’ve got a deal [laughs]. In terms of other boards, one thing does lead to another, and that’s what I would tell students. Take on even a grunt work job, because you’ll never know where it leads. I was very surprised when he invited me to do that. Out of that grew involvement on the corporate board of First of America, which led to National City. So, you really don’t know what’s around the corner. (JS): When you’re on the board of one of these foundations, what do you do? (DJ): Depends on the foundation. I started my career out; I was on the board for 9 years of the Grand Haven Area Community Foundation. There, we raised money and we gave money. I think when I finished being president, we had reached $225,000 and they’re $60 million today, so take heart in that. The grantmaking role is, what do you do? Selecting the CEO is key, setting the value systems, the vision, the goals, the strategies, the priorities, the focus, all of those things. (JS): How often did you meet on these boards, especially say, Kellogg? (DJ): The Kellogg Foundation, by the donor’s requirement, meets monthly, in Battle Creek. Over the years that’s changed. When I started, it used to be a one day meeting. Now it is an overnight with several hours on each side of that. (JS): Were some of the others less intense that? Or is that a little bit unusual? 6 �(DJ): Yes, private foundations by and large – the Ford Foundation meets three times a year. It’s interesting, isn’t it? Mr. Kellogg, as the donor, wanted people to understand the programming, wanted them to be in Battle Creek, not in Chicago or in New York, to feel the needs of the people, and Battle Creek was extremely important to him. (JS): As you were getting engaged and involved in foundations, what kinds of things did you really have to learn on the job? 00:19:44 (DJ): One thing I would say, finance is key, and particularly, I’m going back – the women’s lib movement was just starting then. I always have told young women, if you can read a financial statement, more power to you, because that will distinguish you. I don’t necessarily mean accounting, I mean understanding what a financial statement is. So my year of graduate work at the Harvard Radcliff Program really helped me in good stead. You continually learn on the job. When you work with a staff foundation like Kellogg, you learn program expertise. The other valuable thing is to be a generalist, and not join a board with a single mission in mind, which I think can be very valuable. You need to understand not only content, but psychology, people, and how the world works. (JS): What was the Conference and then Council of Foundations, what did it see as its mission, its job as it evolved? (DJ): I had a terrific 25 year career with the Council of Michigan Foundations. Our mission was to enhance, improve, and increase philanthropy. We were the largest regional association of grantmakers in the country. Not only did we work with present members, in terms of helping them to do their work at their request, we worked with people considering forming foundations. We were responsible for the Michigan Community Foundation Youth Project. We have community – every citizen in the state of Michigan is now served by a community foundation. I’m very proud of that. We worked with tax policy for donors, both at a national level and also in the state. There’s been the Community Foundation Tax Credit that looks like it’s going to be eliminated with our current issues in our state. But then also laws that affected private foundations: the excise tax, which was as high as 4 percent, now it’s down to 1 percent. With the payout that used to be exorbitantly high and now is 5 percent, those kinds of tax policy issues. We also did some things like started the Michigan AIDS Fund, when there was an interest in a particular area. (JS): How do you think the organization changed over the course of time while you were working for them? (DJ): Well, our organization had a 21 member, does have a 21 member board of trustees. It’s a union of many different opinions, and people work together to effectively make things happen. We actually were the incubator for several philanthropic endeavors here in the state of Michigan, and why? Because we had a dynamic board who brought issues, they could see that they could get things done by working together. Michigan Campus 7 �Compact started at the Council of Michigan Foundations. The Michigan Nonprofit Association started. We worked with then Governor Engler’s wife, Michelle, and others on the Michigan Community Service Commission. There were a lot of things that evolved. People saw you could get things done, and they brought opportunities to us. (JS): What sorts of backgrounds would people bring with them when they would join the board? (DJ): Interestingly, the board of the Council of Michigan Foundations, that’s why I was so fortunate to be asked because at that point I filled a slot. I was relatively young, from a small town, and I had had a decent education. So, I was asked to participate, and I had had a lot of volunteer experience. To serve on that kind of a board, in this case you needed to either be staff, or a donor, or a board member of a grantmaking entity and whether it be Kellogg, Kresge, Mott, Ford, Dow, GM, whatever, or here in Michigan, some of the smaller foundations. It all evolved. In fact, I chaired a national foundation conference when I was a volunteer with the Grand Haven Area Community Foundation, because they needed all kinds of components. (JS): You’ve been talking about state level activities and local ones and so forth. How much of the national structure is there, that these foundations are part of? (DJ): Well, it’s interesting. The Council of Michigan Foundations is a regional association. Today there’s 30 or 40 of those. Michigan has always been the largest. Rob Collier is the CEO, does an incredible job. Technically, each one is self-contained. But we do have a national organization, the Council on Foundations. We have Independent Sector, we have the Foundation Center, we have the Better Business Bureau, the National Council of Family Philanthropy. I served on all those boards. I’m old; I’ve lived a long time [laughs]. But, again, it’s representing what you can from a small area, which in this case was Grand Haven or the state of Michigan. There’s no legal overlap there. As we talk more about philanthropic education, all of that experience built into that. (JS): That actually is the next step being, how do we go from simply being actively involved in these organizations to doing things to promote education in philanthropy just like we do here at Grand Valley now at the Johnson Center. 00:25:48 (DJ): It’s interesting how the Johnson Center and I am honored beyond belief, when I – I never called it “retired,” when I “graduated” from the Council of Michigan Foundations, that was my parting gift. The Council of Michigan Foundations members raised the financial support and worked with then Don Lubbers, who was president. But I want to go back 10 years before that. This really grew out of the wisdom of Russ Mawby and the Kellogg Foundation. It grew out of the wisdom of Bob Payton from the Indiana Center on Philanthropy. They recognized the value of the academic underpinnings of a center on philanthropy and what it could contribute. They recognized that it’s not just one discipline of fundraising or whatever, it is an entire discipline. It could be history, the 8 �history of philanthropy. It could be economics. How does tax policy play into this? As you look at that, there was really nowhere to go for that kind of general background. So Bob Payton, and I must say with tremendous financial support from the Lilly Endowment, started the Indiana Center on Philanthropy. I was privileged to serve on that board for six years, chaired it for a couple years, so I learned a lot then. In the meantime, Russ Mawby, from Kellogg was saying, now what are we going to do in Michigan? The Council of Michigan Foundations, and the Kellogg Foundation, sponsored in Lansing for every public and private university, college, in the state. We extended an invitation to the president and one faculty person to come and learn about what this was. Brian O’Connell, bless his heart, from Independent Sector was the speaker. The whole idea was to motivate these educational institutions to do something. Now, I knew that there were a lot of individual professors doing things, but there wasn’t one center. When that was all said and done, Don Lubbers at Grand Valley, they submitted the winning proposal to the Kellogg Foundation and that’s what started the Center on Philanthropy here at Grand Valley, twenty years ago. (JS): It was originally just down the hall from me, Thom Jeavons in his office. What was the purpose of the center going to be? What was the idea behind it? (DJ): In ways I want to go back just a minute and say, why did grantmakers feel the need for philanthropy education? We had this Michigan Community Foundation Youth project which was tremendous, and continues to be. Out of that we recognized some students knew a lot about philanthropy. They probably learned it in their homes or their churches. Other students knew next to nothing. If we ever were going to sustain this, students needed to know more. So that was one more underpinning of why this all began. (JS): So the idea is more than simply providing some practical training for professionals, but also to communicate to a broader audience what philanthropy is and how it works? (DJ): Yes, well said. I would say, the center, when it began, and it’s refocused and done much more than in the beginning, as you would expect. It was really there to work with nonprofits in a community, to assist them with technical assistance, to train staff and that was all very important. As our center here has evolved at Grand Valley, the fact that we have CRI, the Community Research Institute, we have the nonprofit education, is all very crucial to what we’re trying to accomplish here. (JS): What kinds of things do people who are looking to go and do work for a nonprofit or something like that and get involved in these foundations, what kind of knowledge or training should they have, and what can a center like this help give them? 00:30:33 (DJ): I would say students; so many students come to me and saw, “I want to work for the Dow Foundation.” “I want to work for Kellogg.” “I want to work for Ford.” Doesn’t happen like that. You need a background, an academic background, ideally. Ideally you will major in something that is a passion of yours. Today, you can go to fundraising 9 �schools and you can become a development officer. There is a clear path for that. But program officers, at a foundation, the Gates Foundation. Name one. Those people didn’t start out at 22 and say, “I’m going to be that.” They had experience. So, understanding how that all evolves, working on internships, those kinds of things. But having some academic grounding and a discipline is very crucial to a future career in philanthropy. (JS): One other dimension that has come up in some of our other interviews, is that part of the reason for getting more organized and doing more to provide training and study was, you had a lot of people who were involved in foundations, or even family members in these foundations, second and third generations of people. Are there things that you do, or this center like this can do, or your council did, that supports them or helps them? When they inherit the role in a way or they fall into it somehow, is there guidance or direction you can give them? (DJ): It’s interesting. Part of my work at the Council of Michigan Foundations was to work with individual donors, both those who already had foundations and those who were considering it. And there’s some tremendous success stories. The worst, in my mind, was when the parents both passed away, the three children couldn’t agree. This is in a Detroit area foundation, so they had to divide it three ways, and that did not fulfill the purposes of what their parents had hoped would happen. But, yes. I think that both the Council of Michigan Foundations, and certainly now the center here at Grand Valley can be extremely helpful to families and family foundations. Michael Moody is the new Frey Chair professor and it has been very well received. What can they do? They can do surveys, they can share experiences. Sometimes families like to talk to a neutral party, they like to talk to me, I was totally neutral, about what others are doing and how they can learn and what they can do better. (JS): You’ve done a variety of different kinds of volunteering. One of the things that you did, for a significant portion of your time, was you served on the Board of [Trustees] for Grand Valley State University itself. How does working on a university board relate to or compare with working with these foundations? 00:33:47 (DJ): It was a real pleasure to be on Grand Valley’s board. I served with three different presidents here, chaired actually the search that brought Mark Murray in. The difference between a university board and a foundation board, I would say the foundation board, you hit the ground hard. With the university board, just by the nature of the size of the budget and the size of the staff, you can be involved and you have major decisions to make, but it’s not as much hands on. Fortunately, I was appointed, I feel by the Governor – he actually asked me originally to be on Central’s board. I can’t believe I said this, but I said to him, “Governor, I believe when you’re on a board, you need to give of your time, of your resources, and right now between my husband and myself and our children, we are sending modest contributions to nine schools, can’t do another one!” [laughs] But then I said, “If it was Grand Valley, I’d say yes in a heartbeat.” He said, “I’ll think about it.” I put the seed in and a couple of years later, I was very fortunately to be able to do 10 �that. Because I believe in giving back, and volunteering, if you have a young person now starting, volunteer as much as you can. You will be observed by others about what you can do and how you do it and you never know where it will lead. One question that you had asked on the list that I have was what are the issues in philanthropy right now as you see them? I’ve been very blessed; actually my whole career has been in philanthropy. Some people asked me when I quote “graduated,” when did this all start? And I said, I think was 8 years old in the 3rd grade in Mrs. Jones class. We were told to bring 10 cents to buy a harmonica. The whole class was going to learn how to play harmonicas, can you believe it? I knew that one of our student’s family, that wasn’t going to be possible. So I went to nine other of my friends, and said why don’t we all bring 11 cents? We’ll never tell, it’ll just get done. I think that was the first time. My mother was a volunteer, and I watched her with the Red Cross, the Community Chest, before the United Way. So that’s where that all started. 00:36:33 Bubbling this up, I see four issues in philanthropy right now that I think have to keep our eye on. One is obviously resources, no matter what size nonprofit you’re on and I’ve been involved in all kinds, Kandu Industries when it was a $10,000 budget, in Grand Haven, and it’s now Ottawa County more than $3 million I understand. But, resources are limited and nonprofits have to be very effective in their expenditures. I think the second issue is the proliferation of nonprofits. If you see something you – there’s a million and 500 thousand now that have IRS [determination]. If you want to do something, I’m all for it, do it. But see if you can collaborate with another because, because there’s so many, you may be passionate and it may last for 10, 20 years. But what’s going to happen to it? You need to think about that. The other, third issue I would say is tax policy. In our country, we’re going to have President Obama wanting to make changes to the charitable deduction. Fortunately, in the United States, we’ve had that for all these many years, and we’ve all benefited from it. Whether we’ve given or been the recipient. So tax policy is going to be a huge issue. I guess the third, from my nonprofit colleagues, are career paths. It’s changed drastically since I initially got involved. Compensation now for many nonprofits is where it should be. One in ten jobs in the state of Michigan is nonprofit. People don’t think of it like that, but it is a career path and we have to maintain the health and welfare. Over these last three years, I know compensations have been either frozen or reduced. It’s of concern to me that people be rewarded for the fine work that they’re doing. (JS): It’s not as if they’re necessarily being compensated on the same scale as a corporate CEO or something like that. Where there’s not really any particular ceiling to it. They have set salaries. There’s not a whole bunch of stock options that you can get as part as that package. (DJ): I think a young person when they go into the nonprofit sector, today they know what they’re getting themselves into. They’re not going to become wealthy, but they should be able to be comfortable. 11 �(JS): Now if you look back on the career you had and the different things that you’ve done, if you go back to being a kid back in California, starting all of this, if someone told you, say when you were 10 or 15 that you would wind up doing the set of things that you’ve done, how would you have responded to that? (DJ): That’s a good question. You know, I don’t think I would have been shocked, because I have always been interested in nonprofits and volunteering, but I’ve also been very interested in the corporate world, my church. Now, if you told me I was going to be living in a small town on the shores of Lake Michigan, I think I would have been surprised [laughs]. I was very fortunate. I had two grandfathers who I never knew, they were deceased before I was born, but they were both ministers. I think there was an ethic of service. I sort of fell into the corporate piece, I will say, because of my business orientation and interest. But I didn’t go out seeking that. And I guess to a young person today, that’s why I say be as much a generalist as you can. If you need to, satisfy another pursuit with volunteer activity. It’s very worthwhile. (JS): Are you still active with particular groups or boards? Do you still have things that you’re doing now? 00:40:58 (DJ): Currently, I’m on the board of the Grand Rapids Symphony, I’ve always enjoyed classical music, also the Princeton Theological Seminary. I’ve continued on the board of the Kellogg Foundation, and the Kellogg Company. Over the years, I’ve had many different interests. Fortunately, I’ve been given opportunities to serve. (JS): Have you learned to say no? (DJ): [laughs] Not too well. But I did when I stepped down from my job. And I give this advice to others. I’ve had to say this to other people, focus, focus, focus. Because I’m no good to a nonprofit just to accept it. I said wait at least six months before you accept any serious commitment. Because there certainly will be opportunities, and let’s face it. I help people give their money away, so people wanted me to help them. Well you can’t do it effectively, totally. Another experience that I had that I found very valuable, for ten years, I was on the Corporation for National and Community Service. I was appointed by President Clinton, and reappointed by President Bush. That budget is AmeriCorps, Learn and Serve, VISTA. It got up to nearly a billion dollars a year that this volunteer board was helping. That was…again, as a generalist, you were able to relate to those issues. (JS): Is that board experience going to be different from most of the others just because of the scope of it and the national orientation? (DJ): Yes. To be honest, serving on a government board can be very frustrating, very frustrating. There are laws that you never knew existed. Making effective change quickly is just not possible. But, all of that said, the greater vision was fulfilled. 12 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/589b82a226160a08688c8ba97d002858.mp4 a7ffbd3be710de0e57cfa7e22c1f0808 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Interviews Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society--Personal narratives Family foundations--Michigan Charities--Michigan Description An account of the resource The Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) was initiated in 2006 as an innovative partnership between the Council of Michigan Foundations, StoryCorps, Michigan Radio and the Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership at Grand Valley State University to create an oral history of Michigan philanthropy. Additional video interviews were created by the Johnson Center for Philanthropy to add to the depth and breadth of the collection. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) (JCPA-08). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Sound Text Moving Image Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf video/mp4 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2006-2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson Center for Philantrhopy Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource StoryCorps (Project) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (JCPA-08)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Dorothy A., video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Dorothy A. Description An account of the resource Dorothy "Dottie"Johnson discusses her early life in Los Angeles and her education in public schools and at UC Berkeley and Harvard. She talks about working for J. Walter Thompson in New York and about moving to Grand Haven, Mich. where she began a family and a philanthropic career with extensive volunteer work. She describes how she became involved with the Grand Haven Area Community Foundation and other organizations and how she began her 25 year career with the Council of Michigan Foundations. The interview includes her thoughts on issues in philanthropy today and advice for young people starting their careers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership, Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Personal narratives Charities Michigan Associations, institutions, etc. Grand Valley State University Grand Haven (Mich.) Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08_JohnsonD Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Relation A related resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-05-05 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b49983a4c959c59b64d270c102cb9f9d.mp4 d3511e9b25c5f9389a12697bd8b18765 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/85341148876e3e871f153489f3f0cdea.pdf 2d9f7123758f237e3e31567c9c9be20d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edward Johnson 1 World War II Interview Length: (02:02:22:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:18:00)  Johnson was born in Greenville, Michigan on May 25th, 1919 (00:00:18:00)  When Johnson was born, his mother worked as a secretary and his father worked as a carpenter; however, before the Great Depression, his family purchased an eighty-acre farm outside of Greenville (00:00:27:00) o Because he did not have any siblings while growing up, Johnson spent a lot of time playing with his dog (00:01:07:00) o For the main cash crop of the farm, Johnson’s family grew potatoes, as well as oats and wheat (00:01:28:00) o Johnson’s family managed to keep the farm, although it was by the very skinniest of margins; without help from President Roosevelt’s policy, the family was close to losing the farm towards the end of the Depression because they were unable to make the necessary interest payments (00:01:41:00)  Growing up, Johnson attended a one-room schoolhouse, where there were nine grades and only a single teacher (00:02:14:00) o Johnson had to walk to the schoolhouse but he thought nothing of it because it was something he had to do (00:02:24:00) o After Johnson finished eighth grade, an arrangement was made whereby he would go live with his grandparents to attend high school (00:02:57:00)  Johnson graduated from high school in 1938, after which he found a job working for a potato business; immediately after he started high school, Johnson was placed in a program to educate him on being a farmer (00:03:18:00) o The business where Johnson worked was very large, at one point the largest in Michigan (00:03:51:00) o Eventually, Johnson briefly held another job before joining the Wolverine Shoe and Tanning Company (00:04:01:00)  Because Johnson played a lot of baseball and Wolverine had a good baseball team, Johnson suspects the company was looking to hire a baseball player when he got the job (00:04:08:00)  When Johnson told his father that Wolverine had offered him a job, his father told him to take it (00:04:29:00)  Johnson was drafted into the military on June 4th, 1941 (00:05:01:00) o After being drafted, Johnson first reported to Fort Custer in Kalamazoo [Battle Creek], Michigan; although the fort had a lot of buildings when Johnson arrived, it was still not too impressive for him (00:05:23:00) o Johnson was only at Fort Custer for processing and after which, he was sent to Camp Boyd, Texas, located about an hour outside of Fort Worth (00:05:56:00)  Johnson rode a train from Michigan to Texas and although he had never been on that long of a train ride before, he does not remember too much �about the trip, apart from being impressed with the number of men who were riding in the train with him (00:06:16:00) o When Johnson arrived in Texas, he was given a choice of what he would like to be trained for and he signed up to be a mechanic (00:06:52:00) o Before going through the mechanic school, Johnson went through the traditional basic training, with all the marching and physical training usually associated with that (00:07:07:00)  The marching and physical training was not a problem for Johnson, who, having grown up on a farm, knew how to work and do physicallydemanding jobs (00:07:22:00)  Discipline was part of the normal procedure and Johnson did not have a problem with it; there were some men who had problems with one thing or another but the discipline helped straighten them out (00:07:44:00)  For example, one man had a habit of chewing tobacco and after being warned three times to stop, was ordered to report to the sergeant, where he was forced to dig a hole 8’x8’x6’ and bury the chewing tobacco in the middle of the hole (00:08:06:00) o Later, the man told Johnson that originally, he had not placed the tobacco in the middle of the hole, so he had to go back down, place the tobacco exactly in the middle of the hole before filling the hole back in (00:08:31:00)  Another man like to sing during the long marches and although the other men liked it, their first sergeant did not, so he ordered the man to shut up; the man did but a couple of minutes later, was singing again (00:08:47:00) o The exchange between the sergeant and the singer happened three times and after the third time, the sergeant said that when they returned to the barracks, he and the singer were going to sort out the problem (00:09:14:00)  Although the other men wanted to watch the exchange between the two men, they were not allowed to (00:09:33:00) o Eventually, the singer came back looking not too worse for wear and the sergeant came back beat to a pulp; the only thing the sergeant said was that both men had learned their lesson (00:09:38:00) o During his mechanics training, Johnson’s group included another man from Greenville who was already a full-fledged mechanic and just under the upper age limit for someone to be drafted (00:10:22:00)  The training started with the men learning the different parts of the engine and while the others learned, the old mechanic would be in the back on the room sleeping because he knew it all already (00:10:51:00)  The mechanic was called to the front of the room and told to explain everything that the instructor had been teaching the other men; without missing a beat, the mechanic drew a perfect generator on the blackboard and labeled all its parts (00:11:10:00) �    In the end, the majority of Johnson’s training ended up coming from the mechanic after the men had finished with their normal training for the day or hour (00:11:35:00)  The men were training to work with ¾-ton Dodge, six-cylinder truck engines (00:11:48:00) o Overall, the mechanic’s training was good and after Johnson and the other men finished, they were transferred to the 36th Infantry Division (00:12:13:00)  One of the men who went through the mechanics training with Johnson was assigned to be a carburetion specialist and when Johnson pointed out that there were already mechanics in the division and they would probably not get to work, the other man suggested the two transfer out of the division (00:12:32:00) The two men transferred out of the 36th Infantry and joined the 1st Infantry Division stationed at Fort Indiantown Gap in Pennsylvania, which was the staging area for the entire division (00:13:01:00) o When Johnson and the other man joined the 1st Infantry, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor had yet to happen (00:13:17:00)  When the attack did happen, Johnson was sitting in a tent with twelve other men; after hearing about the attack, the men started packing because they thought they would be shipped out the next day (00:13:26:00)  At the time, the men were training with wooden guns; there was talk that the country might go to war and the men were still marching around with wooden guns (00:13:43:00) While Johnson was in Texas, he and the other men trained in desert combat and one time, while on an extended exercise, there was a snake in the path Johnson was taking, so he had to go into the section of the soldier next to him (00:14:01:00) o There were so many snake bites in the unit that the base hospital was constantly full; eventually, all the men were called in to learn how to properly treat snake bites (00:14:52:00) When the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor happened, Johnson remembers wondering how he was going to fight with a wooden gun (00:15:38:00) Deployment to Europe / North Africa (00:16:06:00)  When Johnson and the other soldier joined the 1st Infantry at Indiantown Gap, the division was already getting ready to deploy and when the two men arrived, they were greeted by a pair of majors (00:16:06:00) o Both majors were friendly and they took the two men to the headquarters company of 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment, where the two were then handed off to the sergeant they would be working under (00:16:41:00)  When he was a civilian, the sergeant Johnson and the other man were assigned to had worked as a foreman for a power company, so he had the leadership qualities already built in (00:17:11:00)  The sergeant want to know what Johnson and the other soldier’s backgrounds were because their paperwork had not come through yet and when they said they were mechanics, he took them down to the company motor pool (00:17:28:00) �  Joining the regiment was not a problem because the sergeant made sure Johnson and the other man were comfortable; when Johnson joined the 36th Infantry, he was a Northerner being sent to a division made up of primarily Southerners (00:17:49:00) o A lot of the men who were in the 1st Infantry when Johnson arrived were old-time Army and had been together a long time (00:18:31:00) o When Johnson and the other man arrived, the division was getting ready to deploy to Europe, so Johnson and the other man were immediately given a large amount of semi-secret information (00:18:43:00) o One night, Johnson received orders that the division would be moving and that night, the division moved to New York, where the men boarded the Queen Mary luxury ocean-liner (00:18:54:00)  After the men were aboard the ship, supplies continued to be loaded for several days and at one point, Johnson remembers looking out the port hole, seeing all the supplies being loaded, and thinking that the ship was not going to be able to make the voyage (00:19:15:00)  The men were eventually briefed about what they needed to do while aboard the ship and the only major problem they faced was the possibility of a fire (00:19:39:00)  Johnson pointed out to the carburetion specialist that they did not mention anything about submarines (00:19:49:00)  Once aboard, the men were given life vests and packed into an area four or five men deep (00:20:05:00)  Four-and-a-half days after they boarded, the men were told it would be a 4,000 mile voyage and after the ship sailed out of New York and crossed the Atlantic, ended up in Scotland (00:20:15:00)  The weather during the journey was good (00:20:54:00) When the ship arrived in Scotland, Scottish bagpipers were there to greet the soldiers as they unloaded (00:21:14:00) o As they unloaded, the men were a little upset because they had not yet been fed that day; however, as the men were taken to a waiting train, some of the local Scots gave them home-made pot pies (00:21:39:00)  Once the men were settled aboard the train, they could eat the pies, which were individually wrapped in four pieces of newspaper and were enough for a full meal (00:21:52:00)  As the train left Scotland, it had special orders and went flying through the Scottish and English countryside (00:22:11:00) o The train eventually took the men to Tidworth Barracks, which were built on the Salisbury Plain and were primarily home to a British cavalry unit (00:22:27:00)  As the men were settling in, a German Me-109 fighter came in low and attack the barracks (00:22:47:00)  During the first night, the men turned on the radio and heard Axis Sally welcome the 1st Infantry Division to England; the men had tried hard to keep their movements hidden but to no avail (00:23:15:00) o Johnson was eventually given the assignment of driving one of the jeeps and taking care of the jeep for a major (00:23:34:00) �  The first time Johnson drove for the major was to Scotland when he drove the major to a meeting planning an invasion of Africa; however, Johnson did not know the meeting was about this (00:23:51:00)  The meeting was sixty miles away and when Johnson picked up the major, he said they had to make it there in forty-five minutes; although Johnson said it could not be done, a sergeant told him to do it anyway, so Johnson calculated the speed he would need to go in order to make the meeting on time (00:24:06:00)  All the roads in Scotland were narrow and all the bridges were hump-backed, so going top speed would often cause the jeeps to fly into the air (00:24:27:00)  Nevertheless, Johnson managed to get to the meeting on time; when the arrived, the major told Johnson that he had been through war but he had never had a ride quite like that (00:25:07:00) o Johnson spent three or four months in England before the 1st Infantry shipped out again (00:25:52:00)  While in England, Johnson visited Stonehenge, although the information explained to him did not sink in while he was there; looking back, it was a nice trip and Johnson should have enjoyed it but at the time, all he and the other soldiers saw were a bunch of rocks (00:26:35:00)  Other than Stonehenge, Johnson and the other men were not allowed to leave their barracks (00:26:59:00) o Before the division left England, Johnson and the other drivers received training in how to properly care for their vehicles (00:27:12:00) After the men finished testing their vehicles and finished the training, they and their vehicles were loaded back aboard ships, which then left England (00:27:54:00) o Once they had left England, Johnson figures the ships must have sailed nearly halfway back to the United States to join another convoy of ships also headed to North Africa (00:28:02:00) o When the ships from England joined the other convoy, the combined convoy ran into a large storm; although most of the crew aboard the ship got sick, Johnson himself did not (00:28:16:00)  At one point during the storm, Johnson was laying on the deck when the captain of the ship called him over to talk; as the two talked, the captain complained how all his crew, who were supposed to be helping the soldiers, were sick themselves (00:28:39:00)  During the storm, the captain and first mate had to work together turning the engine on and off because whenever the ship pitched high enough, the propeller came out of the water and needed to be turned off before going back into the water (00:29:40:00) o It seemed like the ships were at sea for about ten days before they meet up with the other group, after which both groups headed for their destination, although none of the soldiers knew where that was (00:30:37:00)  Once the ships were about halfway to their destination, the commanders finally told the soldiers where they were going (00:30:51:00) �  o During the voyage, the men kept thinking about the possibility of an enemy submarine attack (00:30:58:00) o Eventually, the ships sailed through the Straits of Gibraltar and Johnson noticed lights on the Moroccan side of the straits; to Johnson, it seemed crazy to see lights on during the middle of a war (00:31:05:00) o After the ships had sailed through the straits, the men were told exactly where the landings were going to be attempted (00:31:18:00) During the landing, Johnson’s jeep was the first to go into the water and as he pulled onto the beach, he was told to turn the jeep sideways; as Johnson turned the jeep, someone shot at him for the first time (00:31:26:00) o Johnson looked up and saw that it was a soldier in the French Foreign Legion who had shot at him (00:32:01:00) o Once all the other soldiers had landed, Johnson’s unit was sent to Taforaoui airport, which was fifty to six miles inland from the beach (00:32:18:00)  B-17 bombers were landing at the airport and the soldiers were told to form a perimeter around the airport because the commanders thought the Germans might drop in some paratroopers (00:32:48:00)  The soldiers stayed at Taforaoui for an extended period of time, between fifteen and twenty days (00:33:06:00)  The men set up tents at the airport but whenever a bomber would fly in, the tents would be blown over; it upset the soldiers because they had to keep building their tents (00:33:39:00) o Although there was a lot of fighting in the nearby city of Oran, Johnson’s unit never became involved in it (00:33:58:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers spent several days hanging around the airport before their unit finally moved into a series of different positions (00:34:12:00)  Johnson himself was constantly driving because his major was being sent all over the place (00:34:42:00) o The roads closer to the beach, where everyone lived, were okay; however, for the most part, the soldiers were operating further into the desert and the roads there amounted to little more than trails (00:35:04:00)  Operating in the desert was un-pleasant, thanks to high heat, sand storms, and local insects (00:35:17:00) Although the bulk of the 1st Infantry was hit at the Battle of Kasserine Pass, Johnson’s regiment did not; the regiment did fight in the American counter-attack after the battle was over (00:35:34:00) o After the counter-attack, a sergeant came in and said he had a job for Johnson; when Johnson asked what the job was, the sergeant asked if Johnson knew anything about German half-tracks (00:35:58:00)  Johnson said he knew a little bit about the German engine, so the two men went into a valley, where there was a German half-track sitting in a gully that the retreating Germans had left behind (00:36:11:00)  Four or five other soldiers went with Johnson and the sergeant to look over the half-track for any booby-traps and after everything was taken care of, Johnson crawled inside (00:36:25:00) � Once inside, Johnson hit the start button and the half-track’s engine started immediately; Johnson then shifted the half-track into reverse and back it out of the gully (00:36:45:00)  As Johnson backed the half-track out, the sergeant was smiling and he kept say, “it works” (00:36:57:00)  In order to drive the half-track, Johnson had to lay on his stomach and look through a periscope (00:37:06:00) o Whenever his regiment was actually involved in any fighting, Johnson’s job was to drive around the major to wherever he needed to go; Johnson was not expected to take a rifle and go fight in a foxhole unless he was called upon (00:37:37:00)  Johnson and the other men in the battalion headquarters were capable of fighting in the foxholes but their jobs were to drive (00:37:52:00)  For the most part, Johnson and the other men did portion of their work at night; Johnson even received special training on how to drive at night (00:38:02:00)  However, Johnson was often blind during the day from having driven at night (00:38:16:00)  Johnson also did work during the day, such as driving around an observer who was looking for targets for artillery units to attack (00:38:24:00)  At one point, a sergeant came up to Johnson and introduced an artillery observer from the division who wanted someone to drive him into a valley (00:38:41:00) o As Johnson and the observer got into the jeep, the observer said he had a few instructions for Johnson; if the observer yelled “go”, Johnson was supposed to jump out and not worry about what happened to the jeep (00:38:57:00)  Johnson started driving up the valley and all of a sudden, he heard the observer say “go”; Johnson jumped out of one side of the jeep as the observe jumped out of the other side (00:39:19:00)  After he had jumped out, Johnson looked up and saw a flight of six German Me-109s overhead; one of the fighters peeled off, looked around, and returned to the group (00:39:49:00)  As Johnson and the observer got the jeep, Johnson asked the observer how he had managed to spot the fighters because Johnson had been looking for enemy fighters as well (00:40:01:00) o The observer explained that on the horizon, there would always be a spot indicating that the fighters would be coming (00:40:35:00)  Apart from Kasserine Pass, the only other time Johnson was relatively close to the fighting in North Africa was at Latourine (00:41:15:00)  At Latourine, someone made a mistake and the unit’s commander was captured by the Germans (00:41:42:00) o When the other unit was captured, Johnson was only seventy-five or one-hundred yards away with the commander’s equipment in his jeep (00:41:49:00) �  o Johnson returned to the remainder of his unit, organized the commander’s equipment and waited with the others for any news about what happened (00:42:12:00)  About twenty days later, the men received orders to pick up the commander and some other soldiers who the Germans had previously taken prisoner; all the German ships in the harbor had been sunk and there was no way for the Germans to get the POWs back to Europe (00:42:20:00)  The first time Johnson’s unit moved through the valley, they were constantly setting up defensive positions (00:43:28:00)  At one point, Johnson went to the top of a mountain where an American unit was positioned; Johnson knew officers in the other unit from being a driver, which was why he was allowed onto the summit (00:43:31:00)  From the top of the mountain, Johnson watched as individual American tanks advanced up the valley, only to be quickly knocked out by German fire (00:43:42:00) o When Johnson asked what was happening, an nearby officer explained that a German 88mm gun further up the valley and the American tanks could not stand up to the gun’s firepower (00:43:56:00)  The next day, there was a new group of tanks that began advancing into the valley and the same thing happened again (00:44:07:00) At different times, German soldiers went through the American lines, advanced four or five miles into the American rear area, placed notes on the American communications, and retreated back without being caught (00:44:25:00) o Everything time this happened, Johnson would think about how poorly trained he and the other American soldiers were, to let the Germans through their lines without doing anything (00:44:42:00) o However, as the fighting continued, Johnson and the other soldiers slowly learned what they needed to, such as where to hide, what to look for, etc. (00:44:54:00)  At one point, Johnson’s unit was on the backside of a hill that they had already attacked and been repealed from three times; as the men were looking for spots to dig in, Johnson saw a black line running down the side of the hill (00:45:06:00)  Johnson yelled for the others to stop and for a sergeant to come over; the sergeant came over and after Johnson pointed to the line, the sergeant called someone from headquarters (00:45:29:00)  Someone else eventually came up, hooked another line to the black line and all the soldiers back away; some pulled the line and there was a massive explosion, caused by a series of mines hooked to the original line (00:45:58:00) o At the onset of the fighting, there was so much that the soldiers did not know how to do; nevertheless, they caught on pretty fast as to what things needed to be done (00:46:21:00) During the fighting, the Americans did not have any air support because the German fighters maintained air superiority (00:46:33:00) �     o One day, a German Ju-88 dive-bomber flew over the American position with a 500-lbs bomb but was hit in the left engine (00:46:46:00)  The bombers pilot rolled the plane over and dropped the bomb, which headed towards where Johnson was; however, at the last moment, the bomb veered to the side and ended up hitting the area where the unit’s medics and ambulance were stationed (00:47:01:00) On the whole, Johnson and the other soldier’s experiences in North Africa were not very good (00:47:42:00) o However, towards the end of the campaign, Johnson’s unit managed to capture over 50,000 German soldiers; when the soldiers surrendered, all 50,000 were located on a single hillside (00:47:45:00) After the campaign was over, Johnson’s unit moved back to Oran, where the men were issued new uniforms; because the soldiers never had time to clean themselves, Johnson figures by then, the uniforms were about ready to rot off the soldiers (00:48:04:00) o During the campaign, apart from not being able to clean themselves, the men’s health was relatively good (00:48:27:00) o Johnson remembers sending a letter home asking for a red bandana to tie over his forehead; without the bandana, within hours, his forehead was like mud from the combination of sweat and sandstorms (00:48:35:00)  One day, the men were caught in a sandstorm and although it was a clear day, once the storm started, it was like night; the men could not even tell if someone was standing beside them (00:48:56:00) At one point during the campaign, a half-track was brought to the unit and Johnson, being a mechanic, was given the job of driving it (00:49:13:00) o Apart from driving the half-track, during the sandstorms, it was a job in and of itself keeping the bogies of the half-track free of sand and able to operate at all times (00:49:25:00) o Along with carrying soldiers, Johnson also used his half-track to carry around mines and booby-traps, as well as shovels and anything else the soldiers needed to dig in with (00:49:56:00) o The half-track was driven using a large steering wheel and whenever he drove, Johnson had to make sure his thumbs were not gripping the steering wheel; if the steering wheel started to spin and his thumbs were gripping the wheel, then they could be broken easily (00:50:20:00)  Driving the half-track was difficult because the machine was clunky and Johnson always needed to apply a certain amount of pressure to do anything (00:50:31:00) Once back in Oran, Johnson and some of the other men went for a drink and there were girls from the United States in the bar where they went (00:51:18:00) o The men immediately wanted to talk with the girls because they had not heard anything from home except for letters (00:51:28:00) o The first thing the girl told Johnson when he tried to talk with her was that he stunk (00:51:37:00) The Bedouin tribesmen that the men would encounter would often steal different things from them; the tribesmen would beg, borrow, and steal to get what they needed from the soldiers (00:52:13:00) �o At one point, Johnson’s unit was setting up a defensive position in the Atlas Mountains and as the men worked, they planned on teaching the local population how to use the modern weapons (00:52:31:00)  Although the locals did have firearms, when they came to talk with the soldiers, one rifle only had one round left and another only had three rounds left (00:53:21:00)  The soldiers taught the locals exactly what they had been taught during training, but the locals did not care so much about that (00:53:35:00)  After the training, the soldiers took the locals on a hill to see how they could shoot and from the three-hundred yards away, each local hit a rock a foot-and-a-half across several times (00:53:52:00) o Another time, the men were told to work with a different group of people named Goumers [Goums], who liked using knifes in combat (00:54:08:00)  The tribesmen had no problem laying in the desert for an entire day to bring back information; although the soldiers were told where the tribesmen would be stationed, they could not find them (00:54:24:00)  Following one of the tribesmen’s missions, Johnson and the other soldiers, who at the time were having trouble keeping enough water around to drink, were sent to work with them (00:54:52:00)  As Johnson was working with one of the tribesmen, someone grabbed his canteen, which was a no-no; Johnson had a gun in his hand so he swung around to see who it was (00:55:04:00) o As Johnson swung around, a French officer who was translating between the tribesmen and the soldiers waved for him to stop (00:55:18:00)  Johnson continued working and eventually, the person who had taken his canteen brought it back; however, when he took a drink from the canteen, he found that the person had filled the canteen with wine (00:55:31:00) o The wine quenched the soldiers’ thirst; instead of taking a drink once every ten minutes, they were taking a drink once every hour (00:55:56:00) o At one point, while still in the Atlas Mountains, Johnson was given a jeep to go pick up a major (00:56:25:00)  Once Johnson picked up the major, they drove over forty miles into noman’s-land (00:56:41:00)  Before leaving, the major had the jeep specially out-fitted for the mission, so there were extra hand grenades and a machine guns, as well as both men’s rifles (00:56:52:00)  As the jeep started up a hillside, the major told him to stop; Johnson did and the two men started walk towards the top of the hill (00:57:04:00)  As they continued up the hillside, the two men ran into an alcove with running water, where the major said that both he and Johnson were going to take a bath (00:57:12:00) �  After crawling into the alcove, Johnson and the major stripped down, and lowered themselves into separate holes, to the point the water came up to their necks (00:57:36:00) Johnson and the major only stayed in the holes for three minutes before climbing out and as they crawled out of the alcove, Johnson noticed black spots running through the water; when Johnson asked what the spots were, the major said they were lice and explained that the whole area used the alcove to clean themselves (00:58:24:00) Invasion of Sicily / England (00:59:43:00)  As the men stayed in Oran, the 1st Infantry was a whole was getting ready for another invasion (00:59:43:00) o However, unlike the invasion of North Africa, the commanders told the men where they would be invading (00:59:48:00) o Eventually, the men were loaded onto boats, sailed across the Mediterranean Sea and landed at Gela, Sicily; during the landing, Johnson was the first soldier to go ashore in Gela (00:59:53:00)  During the landing, Johnson was driving a jeep for a couple of officers, although he does not remember who the officers were (01:00:16:00) o After he landed, Johnson went up to an abandoned enemy shore battery, whose nameplate read “Fisher”, which indicated that the battery had been built in the United States (01:00:26:00) o After all the troops had landed, they began to move in-land and ran into a fiveacre watermelon patch; there was not a watermelon left in the patch by the time the soldiers finished moving through it (01:00:48:00)  Eventually, headquarters company had set up about three or four miles in-land from the beach and at one point, a soldier came up and requested permission from the company commander to go get some of his relatives, who lived on a nearby hill; the commander said okay, which caught Johnson off-guard (01:01:25:00)  Rumors were constantly passing between the soldiers that German paratroopers were going to eventually land at their position (01:02:10:00) o One night, the American ships began launching flares above Johnson’s position because there were paratroops in the air; however, Johnson was not sure the paratroopers were Germans (01:02:19:00) o One of the paratroopers landed in the company’s position, so Johnson advanced with his gun drawn towards the paratrooper, who turned out to be an American paratrooper, not a German (01:02:33:00) o Johnson helped the paratrooper out of his parachute and the paratrooper told Johnson to keep the parachute, which was made of silk, in his foxhole; Johnson kept the parachute and after the war, had a silk scarf made out of it (01:02:44:00)  As the soldiers continued moving in-land, they eventually became involved in a heavy firefight with the Germans (01:03:23:00) o Prior to the firefight, Johnson was called back and ordered to carry an important message from the company back to the beach (01:03:35:00) o When Johnson arrived at the beach, the first officer’s vehicle he saw belong to General Theodore Roosevelt Jr.; however, Gen. Roosevelt stopped Johnson �   before he could say anything, said that General George Patton was coming onto the beach, and Johnson was to give the message to him (01:03:50:00)  Although the orders did not enthuse Johnson, he reported to Gen. Patton that German tanks would be breaking through the American lines; although Johnson never saw any more of Patton, none of the books written about the early part of the Sicily invasion mention that Patton and the officers knew the German tanks were going to break through the American lines (01:04:14:00) o After making his report to Gen. Patton, Johnson returned to headquarters company and when he told the other men what had happened with Gen. Patton, all the other men laughed (01:05:38:00) Prior to the invasion, Johnson remembers hearing Gen. Patton apologize to Johnson’s division for slapping one of the soldiers in the division (01:06:42:00) o Most of the men did not care one way or another because the soldier the general had slapped ended up making the invasion anyway (01:06:57:00) While the division was in Africa, Gen. Roosevelt, who was the assistant division commander, would visit Johnson’s company with maps to inform the men about what the current situation was (01:07:37:00) o For the most part, the soldiers did not know anything, except that the enemy was out there somewhere (01:07:56:00) o Like Gen. Roosevelt, the 1st Infantry Division’s commander, General Terry Allen, was a “soldier’s general”; Gen. Allen was a fighting general and as far as he was concerned, the soldiers did not have to worry too much about spit and polish (01:08:20:00)  Nevertheless, Gen. Allen got the job done and the soldiers respected him for that (01:08:32:00) o The general who followed Gen. Allen as the division commander, General Clarence R. Huebner, did place more of an emphasis on the spit and polish aspect of the soldiers’ lives (01:08:38:00) Once the soldiers had successfully moved away from the beaches, they began moving into the mountains (01:09:06:00) o However, moving into the mountains turned out to be very bad for the Johnson and the other drivers because they were unable to successfully navigate their vehicles; ultimately, pack mules were brought in to carry the ammunition up the other soldiers (01:09:11:00)  However, some of the mules would not listen to the soldiers, so the soldiers had to find soldiers who knew how to work with mules (01:09:22:00)  At some points, the “roads” leading into the mountains were only a little over a foot wide; nevertheless, the mules were sure-footed enough to successfully navigate the roads (01:09:31:00) o From Johnson’s perspective, the fighting eventually devolved into a fight between the various artillery units (01:09:45:00)  For the most part, the shells that the enemy would fire at the soldiers was just as bad as the shrapnel that came from the explosions (01:09:56:00) �  Whenever the soldiers would build protection, a shell would come in an knock it all down; the soldiers could not dig in, so they were forced to build their protection above ground (01:10:06:00) o Johnson’s company eventually ended up in the town of Troina, which was located near the middle of the island, on the west side of Mt. Etna (01:10:24:00) Back when Johnson’s company was in Africa, right after the company had first set up, they were attacked by enemy aircraft and ended up losing their colonel, a lieutenant, and another soldier (01:10:54:00) o As the fighting continued, both in Africa and in Sicily, the company was constantly being hit by enemy aircraft, as well as by enemy artillery, which was very good (01:11:11:00)  However, the American artillery often proved to be just as good was the German artillery (01:11:21:00)  One time, Johnson was out with a group that became cut off from the company and unable to make it back (01:11:53:00)  The major leading the group called on artillery to help and eventually, the soldiers were able to make a break for the American lines (01:12:04:00)  After the soldiers made it back, the colonel was called into headquarters and reprimanded for the amount of artillery used to assist the soldiers (01:12:37:00) o The colonel replied that it took eighteen years to make a man and only eighteen seconds to make a round of ammunition; once the colonel said that, the commanding officer dismissed him (01:12:53:00) o Once in Sicily, Johnson’s battalion did suffer a high number of casualties among the officers, although the casualties were mostly confined to the officers in “A”, “B”, and “C” companies (01:13:39:00)  The majority of the officer casualties resulted from the fact that officers often led their forces from the front (01:13:51:00)  From the first time Johnson and the other men joined the 1st Infantry, they were exposed to the division’s motto: “No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great-Duty First” (01:14:10:00)  Although the majority of the officers in the unit were good, there were a few who were questionable and almost got Johnson killed on several different occasions (01:14:23:00)  However, by the time those incidents occurred, Johnson had enough experience to know, that although he should not question the officers, they were doing something wrong (01:14:34:00)  One time, Johnson would tell that his group, carrying supplies to “A” Company, was headed in the wrong direction; the group eventually managed to sort itself out and made it to “A” Company just before dawn, although the “A” Company commander was furious that they had no shown up earlier (01:14:47:00) o When Johnson group made it back to headquarters company, Johnson’s commander called him into his office �     and told him to get the officer who had led the group into the commander’s office (01:15:28:00) o Once in the office, the officer admitted that the group had made a mistake; when the commander asked who corrected the mistake, the officer said Johnson had (01:15:48:00) o Following the incident, Johnson began receiving more information about where he would be going with the different groups (01:16:01:00)  Another time, while the battalion was in central France, the same officer who had led the bumbled group to re-supply “A” Company was leading a recon with a 14-ton vehicle (01:16:11:00) o Johnson could not understand why the officer had chosen to use a 14-ton vehicle for the recon, when a jeep would have worked much better (01:16:34:00) o At one point, Johnson was preparing to move the vehicle through an opening when an enemy round passed in-front of the vehicle (01:16:45:00) o Johnson asked the officer if the officer still wanted to do the recon and the officer told Johnson to turn the vehicle around and get out of there (01:17:05:00) Once their unit was stationed at Troina in Sicily, Johnson and the other soldiers were sent to sleep on a hillside; Johnson did not realize it at the time but the “hillside” he and the men were sleeping on was the backside of Mt. Etna (01:17:45:00) o As Johnson settled in, he heard rumble but initially passed it off as just more incoming enemy artillery (01:17:56:00) o However, nothing happened and Johnson heard another rumble; again, nothing happened, except that the top of Etna began to smoke (01:18:06:00) o Although the Americans had a large amount of enemy soldiers trapped on the island, from what Johnson has read on the campaign, mistakes were made that allowed a good portion of those soldiers to escape (01:18:26:00) Sicily was not an easy fight for Johnson and the other soldiers; from what Johnson can remember, his unit’s companies took around 30 to 40 percent casualties (01:19:08:00) Once the men were at Troina, they were told that they were being shipped back to England; however, there was a time lapse between when the soldiers left Sicily and arrived in England where they were stuck at sea (01:19:37:00) o The soldiers returned to England aboard ships and to Johnson, it seemed like the soldiers were at sea for a long time (01:20:59:00) Once back in England, one of the assignments the men were ordered to do was construct a series of barbed-wire beach obstacles in case the Germans ever decided to attack England (01:21:20:00) o However, most of the soldiers realized the work was just something to keep them busy (01:21:28:00) The soldiers ended up spending quite a long time in England and they ended up staying in the homes of civilian English families (01:21:36:00) o The English were constantly asking if the soldiers knew where the soldiers would be going next but the soldiers never knew for sure (01:21:48:00) �  o Johnson himself ended up celebrating Christmas with the family whom he was staying with (01:22:07:00)  The woman who owned the house where he was staying had been preparing for Christmas for six months ahead of time (01:22:13:00) o One thing Johnson noticed as that regardless of what social standing they had before the war, all the English were brought to the same level (01:23:00:00) Johnson’s unit did not do too much while it was stationed in England and there was a lot of wasted time (01:23:21:00) Johnson made it into London once and another time, he was at the beach and watched as a cripple airplane flew overhead (01:23:32:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers did see the massive damage that the German V-1 and V-2 rockets caused; London itself was almost flattened from the rockets when Johnson went to visit the city (01:24:01:00)  Later in the war, Johnson’s unit was so close to the launch point for the rockets that they were mistakenly attacked by American aircraft who were trying to attack the launch point (01:24:28:00)  Another time, Johnson was stationed near Frankfurt when he saw something rise up from the ground; Johnson told his commander about it, who then sent the information up the chain of command (01:24:53:00)  About a week later, Johnson got a notice back that he had witnessed a V-2 rocket launch (01:25:13:00)  While in England, Johnson and the other soldiers saw incoming V-1s and V-2s; however, they saw more of the V-1 than the V-2 (01:25:30:00) Invasion of Normandy / End of the War (01:26:21:00)  As it became closer to the invasion of Normandy, Johnson began driving around more at night with his jeep (01:26:21:00) o One night, Johnson had to drive an officer, newly-arrived from the United States; the officer fell asleep and when he woke up, in his mind, Johnson was driving the jeep on the wrong side of the road (01:26:35:00)  The officer grabbed the wheel but Johnson stopped him and reprimanded him; Johnson was the driver of the jeep, he knew what he was doing, and they were on the right side of the road for England (01:26:49:00)  Later, Johnson had to dodge something in the road but the officer did not believe him and ordered Johnson to back the jeep up to prove there was something in the road to dodge (01:27:11:00)  Johnson backed the jeep up fifty yards and in the middle of the road was a large hole (01:27:21:00) o After the experience with the newly-arrived officer, whenever he was assigned to drive around an officer, Johnson would ask if the officer was new and if the officer understood that Johnson would be doing the driving (01:27:42:00) o Johnson drove so much at night that he was eventually able to drive upwards of 70MPH, using the shadows and the feel of the jeep on the road (01:27:58:00) o During the night, the headlights were “blacked out”, covered in canvas with only a tiny slit allowing light through; however, the slits were not meant to help the driver but to make him visible to anyone else on the road (01:28:27:00) �    When someone saw the slits on the headlights, they knew they were about twenty feet away from the other vehicle (01:28:41:00) Once it became time to begin the actually preparation for the Normandy invasion, Johnson's unit moved to around Plymouth (01:29:03:00) o Recently, Johnson has read that there were around two million soldiers stationed around Plymouth prior to the invasion, including not just American soldiers but also British soldiers and soldiers from the other Allied nations (01:29:12:00) o Once in Plymouth, Johnson was assigned to drive a half-track, which was much harder to hide from the enemy than a jeep (01:29:25:00)  Nevertheless, the soldiers were moved into a secluded area and told to wait for information (01:29:33:00) o As the men waited, the English countryside was covered with vehicles, ranging from tanks to trucks (01:29:58:00) Eventually, loaded on a Landing Craft-Tank (an LCT); apart from Johnson and a sergeant, the other things on the LCT were a large stack on dynamite towards the back of the ship, an L-10 Bulldozer, Johnson’s half-track, a small medical group, and three soldiers who operated the bulldozer (01:30:07:00) o The LCT went out once, on June 5th, but returned to the port soon after due to inclement weather on the English Channel, with waves averaging around six to seven feet (01:31:08:00)  Luckily, the LCT was a larger ship, which meant Johnson and the other soldiers did not receive the buffeting from the wind that the smaller landing craft received (01:31:29:00) o Prior to the landing, wherever Johnson looked around the LCT, he would see ships (01:31:51:00) o Johnson and the other men found out where they would be going just before they boarded the LCT; the Supreme Allied Commander, General Dwight Eisenhower, was there and he told the men information about where they were going to be invading (01:32:26:00)  Nevertheless, the period after the LCT had returned to port for the inclement weather was a little confusing; the men did not know what was happening when all of a sudden, the LCT started moving (01:32:57:00) The LCT eventually moved out, got into its assigned position before new orders were given; at 5:30, a bullhorn attached to the lead ship ordered Johnson’s LCT to move in, which it did (01:33:25:00) o The LCT had moved fifty to one hundred feet towards the shore when the bullhorn came on again and ordered the LCT to come back; the LCT had hit a mine, which blew the entire from end of the ship off and made it impossible for the ship to go forward (01:34:26:00) o As the ship was trying to move back, it was hit by all sorts of enemy fire, everything from shore batteries and machine guns to mortars and direct fire from German soldiers (01:34:56:00) o The ship began listing to one side and eventually caught fire; once the ship was on fire, Johnson grabbed a nearby fire extinguisher, climbed up, and had just about completely put the fire out when the extinguisher ran out (01:35:15:00) �     The fire came back and hit Johnson in his face before someone else threw up another extinguisher, which Johnson grabbed and used to put out the remainder of the fire (01:35:38:00) o Once the fire was out, Johnson, who was confused as to why the LCT was not moving, climbed up higher on the ship and saw that the captain of the ship had lost a leg and had been knocked out (01:36:03:00) o Johnson took charge of the situation and talked through the speaking tube to the engine room to get the LCT to go back (01:36:16:00) o Eventually, the LCT ended up in front of a destroyer, which promptly yelled at the LCT to get out of the way; Johnson managed to maneuver the LCT to the side of the destroyer and was close enough so that when the destroyer launched a broadside, the heat from the guns was strong enough to almost burn Johnson and the other men on the LCT (01:36:44:00) o The LCT drifted as wave after wave of ships passed them to go in for the invasion; eventually, an ammunition ship after the back end of the fleet stopped and allowed the men on the LCT to board (01:37:18:00)  The soldiers medical detachment survived but Johnson does not know what happened to the three other soldiers who were also on the ship; Johnson’s sergeant also survived and he recommended Johnson receive the Silver Star (01:37:45:00) o Eventually, the LCT was assigned a new captain and was sent back in to complete the landing (01:38:10:00)  The landing attempt was awkward for the LCT because thanks to the damage from the mine, every time the LCT would go forward, the ship would take on water (01:38:31:00)  However, the new captain knew how to properly handle this problem and was able to successfully land the ship (01:38:38:00) o As the LCT moved to land on Omaha Beach, Johnson and the other soldiers saw the remnants that remained of the first twenty minutes of the invasion (01:38:59:00) After the LCT had landed, the sergeant disembarked first and took command of the offloading of the ship (01:39:14:00) o Once off the LCT, Johnson and the other soldiers had no trouble getting off the beach; once the ship was unloaded, Johnson and the sergeant were able to make their way to where the headquarters company had set up their position, four miles from the beach (01:39:18:00) o By the time the LCT finally managed to land, it was getting to be later in the morning (01:39:37:00) As the LCT was trying to fall back, that was when Johnson and the other soldiers heard the naval bombardment that was supposed to loosen up the German defenses (01:41:10:00) Although Johnson himself was not fired upon as he exited the beach, there was still gunfire happening off to his right (01:41:46:00) After Johnson and the sergeant re-joined the headquarters company, they dug in and waited for something to happen, although nothing ever did; Johnson attributes part of this �   to the fact the company was not meant to be a fighting unit, whereas the other companies in the battalion did take heavy casualties (01:42:19:00) o To Johnson, it seemed like the entire battalion was in the same place for an extended period of time, which Johnson equated to the battalion licking its wounds from the fighting (01:42:52:00) o Once the entire unit was back together and had organized their artillery, they began to move out, although Johnson cannot remember where to (01:43:07:00) As the battalion continued advancing inland, they eventually entered the hedgerows (bocage) that divided up the land; once the soldiers were in the bocage, Johnson had very little in the way of assignments because it was difficult for Johnson to drive his halftrack in the thick hedgerows (01:44:11:00) o For the most part, any work that was done was done during the night and on some nights, Johnson would carry supplies to the front with his halftrack (01:44:22:00)  One time, Johnson’s ammunition carrier was supposed to be full of ammunition but was instead full of whiskey for the soldiers (01:44:45:00)  Johnson ended up getting inspected by a general during the trip; when the general asked what was in the ammunition carrier, Johnson lied and said ammunition (01:44:59:00) o Inspections on the front were not uncommon; several times, the soldiers had to line up for an inspection while under enemy fire (01:45:37:00) By the time of the Normandy invasion, Johnson’s headquarters company had experience almost a 100% turnover in officers, either from casualties or officers transferring out of the unit; this meant that during Normandy, there was a large portion of new officers in the unit (01:46:06:00) o However, Johnson and the other enlisted personnel never really got close to the officers; both groups did their jobs and Johnson himself spent most of his time with a sergeant who he worked well with (01:46:19:00) During the Allied breakout from the town of St Lô, Johnson remembers that the 1st Infantry was a follow-up unit to another division (01:46:52:00) o Johnson remembers that prior to the actual attack, aircraft from the Air Force flew overhead for about four hours; the 1st Infantry was stationed two-and-a-half miles away from the front lines and as each wave of aircraft flew overhead, their bombs fell a little closer to the soldiers (01:47:07:00)  The bombs from the last wave were so close that some fell on American lines and one ended up killing a high-ranking American General, Lesley McNair (01:47:53:00) o Once the bombings were over and the division stationed in front of the 1st Infantry managed to break out, Johnson’s unit took off and continued advancing to the point that the vehicles ran out of gas (01:48:42:00)  Once they had run out of gas, all the vehicles were lined up along the side of the road, which worried Johnson (01:49:09:00)  Eventually, gasoline was brought up for the vehicles and Johnson put between forty and fifty gallons of gasoline into the half-track’s three fuel tanks (01:49:29:00) �     o After they had re-fueled, the vehicles took off again and covered another twenty to thirty miles; the system of advance far away from their previous position continued for the next couple of weeks (01:49:45:00) o Later, when reading about the breakout, Johnson discovered at both Gen. Patton and Gen. Eisenhower liked the effort put forth by the 1st Infantry during the breakout (01:50:01:00) o As the division advanced through the French countryside, Johnson did not see too much in the way of French civilians; it was still too hot for them to be out in the open (01:50:51:00) The Allied advance was stalled once they reached the Siegfried Line¸ German defensive line; although the soldiers skirted the line, they still encountered several days of heavy fighting at the end of the line (01:51:16:00) Prior to the Siegfried Line¸ the 1st Infantry was in the reserve when the 26th Infantry Division attacked the German city if Aachen (01:51:46:00) o Johnson remembers watching as the entire city was destroyed by direct fire from 155mm howitzers (01:51:56:00) o During the 26th Infantry’s attack, Johnson had a foxhole dug on a hill outside the city and one night, after he came back from working, the sergeant yelled for Johnson to come over to his foxhole (01:52:13:00)  When Johnson asked why, the sergeant told Johnson he had a visit in his foxhole and to check it in the morning; in the morning, Johnson found a dud 190mm round in the bottom of his foxhole (01:52:23:00)  Even through Johnson’s unit was supposedly in reserve, stuff was still getting close to them (01:52:44:00) Johnson remembers going through the town of Düren, the first German city the soldiers went through; while going through Düren, Johnson remembers looking at the buildings and seeing some of the German civilians with guns in their hands (01:52:49:00) o Johnson normally carried his own weapon stung across his chest but when he saw the civilians with their guns, he put the gun in his hand; prior to entering the town, the soldiers had been told that the civilians might not be friendly (01:53:02:00) After leaving Aachen, Johnson’s unit was sent to the town of Schmidt, which was located in the Hürtgen Forest (01:53:49:00) o The fighting in the forest took a heavy toll on the American forces and the forest itself, which was huge, was ripped to pieces; the soldiers had a bet going that if anyone could find a tree that had not been hit, he got fifty cents (01:54:35:00)  At one point, the Americans had roughly 10,000 soldiers in the hospital for frozen feet (01:55:03:00)  The Germans were using airburst artillery rounds, so any place the Americans stayed had to have protection from those rounds (01:55:39:00)  After he came home, Johnson read that the Americans did not gain a thing while fighting in the forest but ended up losing a substantial number of soldiers (01:55:54:00) From what he can remember, Johnson and the other soldiers never really received any time “off” from the fighting (01:56:27:00) �   o The soldiers did receive a short rest period after fighting in the Hürtgen Forest; Johnson pulled his half-track into the company’s new position, unloaded and went into town (01:56:38:00) o However, while Johnson was in town, someone said that an alert had gone up for all the soldiers to return to their units; by the time Johnson returned to the company area, someone had already partially loaded his half-track (01:57:12:00)  However, the person who had started to load the half-track did not know how to do it properly, so Johnson had to unload everything and re-load it properly (01:57:20:00) o The soldiers were on a forty-eight hour alert and sure enough, the orders eventually came through for them to pull out (01:57:28:00) o However, as the regiment was moving out, vehicles were coming from the other direction, which clogged the road; Johnson’s colonel and an officer in-charge of the other vehicles shouted at each other in the middle of the road as to which vehicles had the right-of-way on the road (01:57:42:00) Once the entire 1st Infantry had moved into position along the northern part of the bulge in the Ardennes forest, Johnson remembers that a special artillery unit from the corpslevel was sent to the division (01:58:30:00) o The addition of the special artillery unit gave the division an impressive amount of artillery, everything from corps-level, through division- and regimental-level, to mortars at the company level (01:58:43:00) o When the Germans finally did attack, the fighting was terrible; although German forces did create a smaller bulge in the American lines, they never managed to break through, at least where the 1st Infantry was positioned (01:58:47:00)  During the fighting, it seemed as though the American artillery was firing as fast a machine guns (01:59:16:00) o During the fighting, the Germans attempted to dress some of their soldiers in American uniforms and have them cross the American lines; however, the soldiers in Johnson’s unit were able to see through the ruse (01:59:34:00) As far as Johnson can remember, once the fighting in the Ardennes died down, the 1st Infantry stayed in its position (02:00:34:00) Throughout the entire war, Johnson and the other soldiers never really slept in buildings that much; for the most part, buildings were avoided because they were often being hit by enemy fire (02:01:31:00) o The soldiers did a lot of night fighting and would have to fight whether it was raining or snowing; according to their old commander, the enemy did not like to fight at night, so that was when the soldiers would fight them (02:01:47:00)  At one point, Johnson was taking supplies to the front in the winter while wearing all white and managed to sneak up on a group of soldiers; it ended with a carbine barrel being stuck in Johnson’s stomach (02:02:22:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonE1347V1 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Edward (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Johnson was born in Greenville, Michigan in 1919, and was drafted into the Army in 1941. After training to be a mechanic at Camp Boyd, Texas, Johnson joined Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion 16th Infantry, 1st Infantry Division. He went to England with this unit in 1942, and stayed with it through campaigns in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of the Bulge and the invasion of Germany, ending up in Czechoslovakia when the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8ac02a6c1449f8e94c00629de97d7578.mp4 f6dcd0d97b460fd1af07890b03eb6da0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6654d77d14c5cfd83241a51344917c61.pdf d8948ac04757ea47dc2aaf6774e12a6b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project World War II Edward Johnson 2 Interview Length: (01:30:07:00) Recap of Experience / Vignettes (00:00:49:00)  While Johnson’s unit was in Africa, there was a problem with the unit’s jeeps, where the engines would hesitate; this worried the men because, given that they were working at night, they did not want the engine to hesitate (00:00:49:00) o When Johnson first joined the headquarters company, another soldier joined with him and the other soldier specialized in working with carburetors, so the two decided to take one of the jeep’s carburetors apart to try to fix the problem (00:01:18:00)  Eventually, the other soldier figured the problem was with the carburetor’s metering rod, which dictated how much fuel went into the carburetor at a given point (00:01:30:00) o Johnson and the other soldier kept fooling with the carburetor for several days, making slight adjustments to the metering rod each time before they got the correct setting (00:02:08:00) o Once they fixed the problem, Johnson and the other soldier turned the carburetor back in; although it did not seem like a major engineering feat, it was important to Johnson and the other soldier because they had figured the problem out by themselves (00:02:19:00) o Prior to Johnson and the other soldier’s fix, whenever someone would push down the accelerator in a jeep, there would be a slight hesitation before the jeep would begin to move (00:02:47:00)  The soldiers did not like the hesitation because at worst, the jeep might not move at all (00:02:52:00)  While in the desert, the constant dust was both a hindrance in maintaining the unit’s vehicles and on the soldiers as well (00:03:19:00) o As well, the temperatures fluctuated greatly, from being very hot during the day to very cold at night (00:03:25:00)  Around Christmas 1942, Johnson’s unit was short on food; the unit had been falling back and were unable to receive their food re-supplies (00:03:51:00) o Eventually, the regimental officers told the men that the German submarines were doing their job and sinking the re-supply ships, which meant there were shortages throughout the American forces (00:04:01:00) o After that, the men were “turned loose” to look for supplies, which mostly consisted of going to the local tangerine trees, where the soldiers were able to harvest tangerines by the bucket-full (00:04:16:00) o As well, the soldiers were able to buy bottles of the local wine for about fifty cents or less per bottle (00:04:36:00)  Some of the soldiers became so drunk that they started throwing hand grenades over a wall to make noise (00:04:56:00) �    o Eventually, command came down wanting to know what all the racket was about; the officers straightened everything out then called all the men together to explain their current situation, which helped alleviate some of the problems (00:05:02:00) o The entire situation was very touch-and-go for a long time; Johnson believes that they came very close to destruction from within, due to a combination of the wine and the food shortage (00:05:17:00) In 1943, Johnson’s unit went to the Casablanca Conference (00:05:34:00) o While at the conference, Johnson saw British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, American President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Admiral Ernest King, and General Dwight D. Eisenhower, among others (00:05:44:00)  For the most part, Johnson and the other soldiers did not recognize the commanders from the Navy or the Air Corps (00:06:22:00) o During the conference, Johnson’s unit performed a demonstration for all the commanders (00:06:32:00) o Being at the conference was interesting for Johnson and the other soldiers; the men were seated no less than fifty feet away from all those high-ranking military officers and senior politicians (00:06:42:00) o In order to get from Algeria back to Morocco, Johnson and the other soldiers had to travel by truck (00:07:02:00) Eventually, the soldiers received some time off while in Oran, Algeria, so they went looking for a beer-garden (00:08:01:00) o To that end, Johnson and a group of soldiers were in “downtown” Oran when a group of other men said they were going to a spot and invited Johnson’s group to come with them; although no one in Johnson’s group knew anyone in the other group, Johnson’s group went anyway (00:08:11:00) o The combined groups went to a beer-garden and had a couple of beers each when all of a sudden, someone came scream out of an upstairs room, which was shortly followed by the arrival of MPs (00:08:27:00) o Although Johnson and the other soldiers in his group were off-duty, they were not supposed to be in section of the city and they knew that; as it turned out, the soldiers were in the Kasbah section of the city (00:08:43:00) o Thankfully, Johnson’s group managed to get out of the area without any of them being caught by the MPs (00:09:24:00) Although a lot of other things happened while Johnson was in Africa, he does not consider them to be that important (00:09:53:00) o For the most part, towards the end of the campaign, Johnson and the other soldiers were getting ready to move into Sicily (00:10:01:00) In his first interview, Johnson told the story of reporting back to a group of high-ranking generals during the Sicily campaign on a day when the Germans launched a counterattack; however, after going back through, Johnson realized that his version was not entirely accurate (00:10:24:00) o During the counter-attack, the German Hermann Goering Division used tanks to attack the American lines where Johnson’s unit was positioned; the Germans so overpowered the Americans that Johnson and the other soldiers were told to stay in the foxholes and let the tanks through (00:10:32:00) �o As the Germans counter-attacked, Johnson was with his regimental commander when the regimental commander was hit and killed (00:10:48:00)  It was prior to dying that the regimental commander ordered Johnson to report back the generals that the German tanks had broken through the American lines (00:10:54:00) o Three or four of the German did manage to successfully break through the entire American line (00:11:13:00) o After Johnson reported the message and returned to his unit, some of the other soldiers were laughing at the fact that during the counter-attack, a couple of generals had to “hit the dirt” (00:11:21:00) o The reason Johnson had to carry the commander’s message in person to the generals was not only were the American’s communication abilities bad but another regiment had also lost its commander, leading to confusion (00:12:02:00)  Prior to being killed, the regimental commander had worked a lot with Johnson doing forward observations, so during the counter-attack, Johnson was right beside him (00:12:24:00)  During the counter-attack, the area where Johnson and the commander were positioned came under mortar attack; while in cover, Johnson could turn his head and watch as the mortar rounds came in (00:12:40:00)  One of the mortar rounds kicked up a stone that shot into the commander’s face (00:12:56:00) o During the counter-attack, headquarters company would have been over-run had it not been for the arrival of an artillery company in the regiment (00:13:12:00)  The breakthrough on the counter-attack consisted only of German tanks; the Americans were able to keep the German infantry at bay (00:13:36:00)  When the other company arrived, those soldiers were able to knock out several of the German tanks, as well as capture three German 88mm antiaircraft guns (00:13:47:00)  The company commander knew the effectiveness of the 88mms against tanks, so once they had captured the three guns, the soldiers used them against the German tanks (00:14:02:00)  The artillery company was normally equipped with 105mm howitzers, which could fire an armor-piercing round that was also effective against German tanks (00:14:17:00)  The combination of the 105mms and the 88mms, plus the arrival of some air-support turned the German counter-attack back (00:14:25:00)  However, for a period, Johnson seriously thought that his company was going to be pushed back (00:14:37:00) o Prior to the day he died, the regimental commander and Johnson had been in several scrapes, but they were never anything too serious (00:14:50:00)  The regimental commander was a former West Point graduate and did not believe in the idea of stay back behind the lines (00:14:55:00)  At times, Johnson would wonder why he and the commander would go off by themselves without any support; however, the commander seemed to know what he was doing (00:15:27:00) �      While in the field, because he did not want anyone to know the information, the commander never wore any insignia that identified him as an officer; as well, while in the field, there was not to be any saluting (00:15:54:00)  The commander believed in leading the from the front, which caused him to be captured several times by the enemy, although the soldiers managed to get him back each time (00:16:10:00) o By the end of the German counter-attack, the Americans managed to capture around forty to fifty thousand German soldiers (00:16:30:00) During the fighting in Sicily, Johnson and the other soldiers could not understand how the Germans managed to escape when the Allied forces had them trapped (00:16:56:00) For the most part, given the terrain and where he was and was not able to travel with his jeep, Johnson did not have too much work during the Sicily campaign (00:17:22:00) Eventually, Johnson’s unit was pulled out of Sicily and began making preparations for their next operation, including breaking in a new regimental commander who joined the regiment while it was still in Sicily (00:17:35:00) o Once the unit was out of the fighting in Sicily, the new commander took the regiment into the mountains to “teach them how to fire a rifle”, although all of the soldiers had already earned their marksmanship credentials (00:17:49:00)  Each soldier went through about three hundred rounds apiece, to prove that they knew how to use their weapons (00:18:05:00) o Before his arrival, Johnson and the other soldiers were told that their new regiment commander was a strict disciplinarian who placed a large emphasis on the spit and polish aspect of their lives (00:18:17:00)  This information gave the soldiers a skewed view of the new commander before he even arrived at the regiment but in the end, the commander turned out to be just fine (00:18:30:00) By the time they returned to England, Johnson figured that he and the other soldiers had traveled over 10,000 miles just by water (00:18:45:00) o At certain times, Johnson and the other soldiers were better sailors then the actually sailors aboard the ships (00:18:58:00) After they were back in England, Johnson and the other soldiers were kept busy with various training exercises; which ended up involving several bad incidents (00:19:06:00) o While in England, Johnson and the other soldiers ended up living with various English families and one of their staple meals was Brussels sprouts and SPAM; however, the men ate whatever was available (00:20:05:00) o The soldiers spent quite a long time in England as the invasion plans were set and they knew what was going to be happening (00:20:38:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers in his regiment often wondered why their regiment and the 1st Infantry Division in general was used so much (00:20:52:00)  Eventually, the soldiers found out that both General Patton and General Eisenhower liked the 1st Infantry, so whenever there was a special mission, the 1st Infantry was chosen to carry it out (00:20:56:00) �Normandy / Post – D-Day (00:21:35:00)  Once the soldiers deployed over to France, Johnson’s unit eventually set up a position fifteen miles away from the landing areas (00:21:35:00) o Every night at ten o’clock, a German airplane would fly over the position and the men began calling it “Schicklgruber” (00:21:42:00) o On the third night that the unit was dug in, another group of soldiers came up behind Johnson’s unit and began digging in as well; as the other soldiers dug in, Johnson was sent to see who they were (00:21:55:00)  The other soldiers were part of a 90mm anti-aircraft unit and as Johnson was explaining about the nightly fly-over, the soldiers said they knew about the fly-over (00:22:02:00)  The soldiers said that if the German airplane flew over that night and did not change anything from the previous nights, they were going to shoot him down (00:22:14:00)  At ten o’clock, the German airplane began flying over and the antiaircraft soldiers waited and waited before firing; all four guns fired at the same time and managed to take down the airplane (00:22:33:00)  Johnson went back the next day and all the anti-aircraft soldiers were happy because it was their first time on the line and the airplane was the first one they had shot down (00:22:46:00) o When someone asked how the soldiers came up with the name “Schicklgruber”, Johnson explained that it was the last name of Hitler’s father before he changed it to Hitler (00:23:51:00) o The entire situation made Johnson and the other soldiers feel better because it showed that they were at least receiving more support, especially against the German’s 88mm (00:24:10:00)  Although Johnson’s regiment was receiving more support from other units during the Normandy campaign, part of this was off-set by the influx of replacement soldiers who did not have any experience of being in combat (00:25:11:00) o On several occasions, Johnson and the other veteran soldiers in the regiment were scared of replacement soldiers because the replacements keep screw up; however, the commanders would come down and say it was the job of Johnson and the other veterans to teach the replacements (00:25:20:00)  In the headquarters company in particular, there were not as many replacement soldiers, so training them was not a problem that Johnson had to deal with (00:25:46:00) o As well, all the companies in the regiments were losing their officers at an extraordinary rate (00:25:57:00)  As Johnson mentioned during the first interview, the pre-breakout bombing outside of St. Lo was a shock to the soldiers; they were only half a mile away from the last bomb dropped when they started two-and-a-half miles when the bombing started (00:26:13:00) o As a result of the bombs dropping short of their intended target, the Americans lost not only two high-ranking generals but also nearly an entire regiment of soldiers (00:26:42:00)  Following the St. Lo breakout, Johnson’s memory becomes a little fuzzy about what happened and where he went (00:27:09:00) � o From what Johnson does remember, it seemed like the 1st Infantry was following Gen. Patton’s advance but the division also seemed to be going all over the place in France (00:27:17:00) o Eventually, the division was pulled into a large fight at the German Siegfried Defensive line; from what Johnson can remember, the fighting took place at the end of the defensive line (00:27:28:00)  Initially, the soldiers were able to move through the line relatively easily; it was when they came back and tried to attack in a different direction that they ran into problems (00:28:02:00)  The fighting lasted for about three to four days, during which it was extremely hot; it eventually reached the point that units were placing resupplies of water over re-supplies of ammunition (00:28:11:00)  Johnson was given the assignment to take three half-tracks loaded with water up to the front line (00:28:34:00) o Once Johnson reached the drop-off point, a pair of regimental commanders were at the drop-off point, waiting for the water (00:28:47:00) o As the supplies were unloaded, Johnson went into one of the regimental headquarters and inside, there were six different telephones, all ringing at once (00:29:04:00) o Both the regimental commanders were desperate to get the re-supplies and replacement soldiers (00:29:29:00)  One of the commanders said that at one point, if he had thirty-two soldiers remaining in one of his companies, he would be fortunate (00:30:09:00)  After the fighting was over, the soldiers were told they managed to take out three German divisions while only losing one American division, which just happened to be the 1st Infantry (00:30:16:00)  However, that was not the first time the 1st Infantry was beaten up; after Normandy, the companies in the division were riddled with casualties (00:30:34:00) o After the invasion, Johnson and some of the other soldiers figured that the division had lost around thirty to thirty-five percent of their total troop strength (00:30:47:00) o As far as Johnson can remember, following the massive fight in the Siegfried line, the 1st Infantry first moved to the city of Aachen, then to an area around the Ruhr river, then to the city of Bonn (00:31:01:00)  In particular, Johnson remembers Bonn because the city was the home of the Leica camera company and he remembers the rear echelon forces rushing into the city to “capture” the camera supply (00:31:10:00) During one of the breakouts following the Normandy invasion, the men did not know where they were going but were traveling at break-neck speed regardless (00:31:59:00) o All of a sudden, the advance stopped and when Johnson looked around, he saw people; he and the other soldiers did not realize that they were on the outskirts of Paris (00:32:18:00) �   o As the men were waiting, someone jumped on the side of Johnson’s half-track and as it turned out, that person spoke English (00:32:27:00) o Johnson grabbed his gun, opened the half-track’s hatch, and looked at the man, who claimed he was from Chicago; when Johnson asked what the man was doing there, the man said he wanted to share a drink with Johnson (00:32:35:00)  The man claimed that he would also “teach” Johnson how to drink, so after taking the first drink, he handed the bottle to Johnson, who also took a drink (00:32:58:00) o When Johnson again asked what the man was doing in the outskirts of Paris, the man explained that he had been caught at the beginning of the war and unable to make it back to the United States (00:33:34:00) o The man explained that he had buried the bottle once the war started and that was the first time it had seen daylight since then; as well, Johnson was the first American the man had seen to share the bottle with (00:33:47:00) o Although they made it to the outskirts of the city, Johnson and the other soldiers never made it into the city; instead, the 1st Infantry went around the city while other units went through the middle (00:33:58:00) Around Christmas 1944, Johnson believes the 1st Infantry was in Luxembourg and one day, Johnson and other solider were in Johnson’s half-track when Johnson stopped the half-track next to a house that had partially been built into an embankment (00:35:15:00) o A couple of old ladies came out of the house and motioned for the two soldiers to come over, which they did, although neither could speak the language; eventually, both sides worked out that it was Christmas time and the two women wanted the soldiers to have Christmas dinner with them (00:35:46:00) o On the designated date and time, Johnson and the other soldier went back to the house and the two women had a Christmas dinner of chicken and all the trimmings prepared (00:36:22:00)  However, right in the middle of the dinner, a German V-1 “Buzz Bomb” flew overhead, which caused everyone to stop eating (00:36:44:00) o After the dinner, the two women explained that they had to go into the basement from something, which turned out to be wine that was special and only meant to be drunk on Christmas (00:37:10:00) o Although Johnson and the other soldier should have gotten the names and address of the two women, it was not something they thought about (00:37:47:00) At one point, Johnson was on guard-duty and a series of German V-2 rockets flew overhead; however, Johnson and the other guards had no idea what was going on, only that something was happening in the distance (00:38:51:00) o About a week later, word came back that Johnson and the other guards had witnessed the launch of V-2s (00:39:23:00) o The Germans were always good a pulling things out, such as the V-2, that forced the soldiers to always be on their toes (00:39:38:00) After the fighting around the Siegfried line, the fighting let up for a while although Johnson does remember from time to time having his half-track get stuck in mud because the half-track was not very good at traversing mud (00:39:56:00) o Eventually, the soldiers were given an alert to be ready to move and again, Johnson took off as fast as the half-track would allow him (00:40:22:00) � o After some time, the soldiers arrived at a funny-looking bridge; the name “Remagen” did not mean anything to Johnson at the time but he did know that crossing the Rhine, the river that the bridge spanned was a big deal (00:40:41:00)  Johnson and the soldiers crossed the river using the old railroad bridge that had spanned the river before the war (00:41:07:00)  While crossing, Johnson had to be careful where he drove because the bridge itself was not very stable; conversely, all Johnson wanted to do was reach the other side (00:41:16:00) o The soldiers crossed the bridge around noon and sat along the bank of the river for a couple of hours (00:41:36:00)  Suddenly, Johnson heard a loud “bang”, turned his head, and saw that the railroad bridge had collapsed; the only thing remaining from the bridge were a pair of pillars standing in the river (00:42:03:00)  Later, Johnson returned to the area and saw one of the pontoon bridges that had been built to replace the collapsed bridge (00:42:35:00) Johnson does not remember anything significant happening until his unit moved into the mountains (00:43:32:00) o As they moved through the mountains, the soldiers were capturing a large amount of German soldiers; however, for the most part, the German soldiers did not give up easily and fought right to the very end (00:43:52:00) o During the advance, the soldiers heard about the massacre that occurred near the village of Malmedy (00:45:15:00) o Soon after hearing about the Malmedy massacre, Johnson founded a sculptured Hitler head in an SS headquarters and a Nazi flag in a backroom of a stadium in Nuremberg (00:45:48:00) o By this, Johnson and the other soldiers were seeing scores of German prisoners; whenever they encountered German soldiers, Johnson’s job was to find an officer to take care of them because Johnson’s unit did not have the ability to effectively take care of the prisoners (00:46:52:00)  For the most part, the prisoners Johnson saw fell into one of two categories, either very old or very young (00:47:21:00)  The soldiers tended to keep more of an eye on the younger prisoners or members of the SS (00:47:26:00)  Starting with the breakout from Normandy, Johnson’s unit was capturing hundreds and hundreds of prisoners (00:47:52:00)  Every night, the soldiers would catch a couple of dozen German prisoners (00:48:05:00)  As well, as the soldiers advanced through Germany, they had to deal with civilians who were retreating west, in order to avoid the Russian advance from the east (00:48:20:00)  In particular, it was difficult to use the highways because the civilians wanted to head east while the soldiers were advancing west (00:48:36:00)  Eventually, Johnson ended up carrying civilians from the front to the rear area (00:48:57:00) �  After North Africa, the 1st Infantry’s division commander left to take command of the 36th Infantry Division and lead that division during the invasion of Sicily [Terry Allen actually stayed with the 1st Division into the Sicilian campaign, but was then relieved and eventually led the 95th Division] (00:49:29:00) o After about the fourth day of fighting, the general came through Johnson’s area to assess the situation and Johnson was sent to talk with him; however, Johnson was not told he would be meeting a general (00:49:45:00)  Johnson asked the general what it was like leading different troops into battle and the only thing the general could say was it was different (00:50:34:00)  Johnson asked if the general was there to rejoin the division but the general only said was he had flown over to see the division (00:50:45:00) o Soon after his meeting with the general, Johnson’s sergeant sent out Johnson on another assignment (00:50:54:00)  Johnson reported to the area where the sergeant had told him to go and as it turned out, Johnson and some other soldiers were receiving commendation medals (00:51:00:00)  Prior to the ceremony, Johnson did not even know he had earned a medal, so he was stunned by what was happening (00:51:28:00)  Johnson ended up having to ask a colonel what the medal was that he had earned; the colonel told him it was a Silver Star, an award that Johnson should be proud of (00:51:51:00)  Later one, Johnson chided the sergeant for not telling him ahead of time what was happening because Johnson felt kind of stupid walking into a tent filled with generals and not knowing what was going on (00:52:33:00) o Another good officer that the soldiers had was General Clift Andrus, who Johnson worked with while in Africa (00:52:56:00)  Andrus was an older officer, having served during World War I, and he treated the soldiers like they were his sons (00:53:09:00) o Being a member of headquarters company meant that Johnson met several different generals, who always seemed to be around (00:53:24:00)  General Clarence Huebner, who commanded the division between General Terry Allen and Gen. Andrus, was not the friendliest towards the enlisted men and would often look down his nose at them (00:53:41:00)  On the other hand, Gen. Allen was a soldier’s general who did not believe in the “spit and polish” aspect of a soldier’s life (00:53:52:00) When the war ended, Johnson was stationed in the town of Cheb, in what was then part of Czechoslovakia (00:54:17:00) o When Johnson and the other soldiers arrived in Czechoslovakia, the Czechoslovaks did not know how to react to the soldiers or whether or not they could trust them (00:54:35:00) o There were a lot of mountains in the area surrounding Cheb, which meant the majority of the roads were not very good (00:54:51:00) o While in Cheb, soldiers from the division ended up capturing a couple of German generals amongst all the German soldiers who were surrendering (00:55:02:00) �   However, even as the Germans were retreating, they would not run and forced the Americans to fight for everything (00:55:11:00) o Once word finally came down that the war was over, the sergeant came around and when Johnson said that he did not believe it, the sergeant told him he would ask again (00:55:40:00)  By ten o’clock, the sergeant had come back and confirmed that the war was indeed over (00:55:56:00)  The surprise for Johnson personally was, once he and the other soldiers heard the war was over, there was not a sound made in their area (00:56:01:00)  To Johnson, it was surprising the none of the soldiers wanted to celebrate the end of the war (00:56:27:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers did not spend too long at Cheb before being assigned to clear out a German air base (00:56:39:00)  However, some of the old-timers in the division were called in and told they were being shipped home (00:56:54:00)  During this time, Johnson and some other soldiers kept trying to obtain passes to visit the “rats nest” but were repeatedly denied (00:57:02:00) o Although Johnson did at one point meet Russian soldiers, he does not remember where exactly that was (00:58:14:00)  Johnson remembers that a Russian soldier wanted Johnson’s canteen and proceeded to fill the canteen half-full of vodka (00:58:32:00)  From what Johnson and the other soldiers saw, the Russians were a mean bunch and did horrible things to a group of POWs they had previously captured (00:59:05:00) o While traveling through Germany, Johnson did see groups of displaced persons, although he does not remember where (00:59:33:00)  Other times, Johnson and the other soldiers were made to walk through the Jewish concentration camps (00:59:42:00)  All the displaced persons moving around made it a mess for the soldiers to try to move (01:00:05:00) Once it was time for him to go home, Johnson and some other soldiers traveled back to the French port of Le Havre and made the trip back to the United States, which turned out to not be a pleasant trip (01:00:19:00) o For the trip, Johnson and the other soldiers were placed aboard a Liberty Ship, which Johnson thought was the wrong name for that type of ship (01:00:39:00) o The lead-up to Le Havre is a blank for Johnson, apart from the fact that he and the other soldiers were constantly moving (01:01:01:00)  For the most part, the soldiers moved around by train, although Johnson does not remember specifics, except that he and the other soldiers carried all their supplies in their backpacks (01:01:12:00) Back during the Battle of the Bulge, Johnson’s unit was deployed near the Belgian town of St. Vith and had pushed out too far from the other American forces, which caused them to be hit by their own artillery (01:02:06:00) �o It only took a couple of rounds for the artillerymen to figure out that Johnson’s unit was being accidentally bombarded, it was still a bad experience (01:02:27:00) o After the shelling, Johnson’s unit was moved back to rejoin the remainder of the American forces (01:02:33:00) o At some point during the fighting, German forces managed to break though the 1st Infantry’s lines not far from Johnson’s unit (01:02:45:00)  Once word of the breakthrough came through, Johnson’s unit was lined up in a way that they had never done before, followed by all the artillery, waiting for the German attack (01:02:52:00)  When the Germans finally did attack, all the artillery, along with incoming airplanes, stooped the Germans cold; the Germans did not break through the defensive line set up by Johnson’s unit (01:03:31:00)  Johnson did not realize that the area his unit had been assigned to was such a key place; near the unit was an ammunition dump that none of the soldiers knew about and that ammunition dump was one of the objectives for the German forces trying to break through (01:04:06:00)  Johnson remembers that when he and the other soldiers tried to get forward to plug the hole, the highway was full of American soldiers trying to get away from the advancing Germans (01:04:25:00)  At one point, there was an argument between two soldiers as to who had the right-of-way (01:04:44:00) End of Enlistment / Civilian Life (01:05:25:00)  Once Johnson got on the Liberty Ship at Le Havre, nothing much happened, although Johnson was sweating out the journey regardless (01:05:25:00) o Although he never got seasick, Johnson was more concerned that the ship was not going to make it back to the United States; he had made it that far but the ship was not going to make it (01:05:31:00) o The journey ended up taking several days longer to get from Le Havre back to the United States than it had for Johnson to sail aboard the Queen Mary liner from the United States to Europe (01:05:57:00)  Apart from being slow, the Johnson believed the Liberty ship was poorly made; the ship constantly made noises that made Johnson believe the ship was going to collapse (01:06:26:00) o Once the ship came closer to the United States, Johnson and the other soldiers had to “straighten up”, such as correcting their language, because they were going to be civilians again (01:06:34:00) o Johnson remembers the ship pulling into New York Harbor and seeing the Statue of Liberty, which was a welcome sight (01:06:54:00) o The night that they arrived, Johnson and the other soldiers were treated to a large steak dinner; unfortunately, Johnson and some of the other soldiers ended up getting sick as a result of the dinner because they had not eaten anything like that for months (01:07:24:00) �  The dinner was held in a warehouse with rows of tables and at one end of the warehouse were crates full of supplies destined to be sent to Russia; on the crates was a big sign that read “Horse Meat” (01:07:44:00)  Although the people tried to help the soldiers, the soldiers were in shock from being home, so it did not matter one way or the other (01:08:10:00) After New York, Johnson and some of the other soldiers were sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois to be officially checked out (01:08:33:00) o Once Johnson got to Fort Sheridan, he found out he had an ulcerated tooth, which required him to visit the base’s hospital (01:09:17:00)  While at the hospital, Johnson ended up meeting his future wife, who was working at the hospital (01:09:25:00)  Johnson arrived at the hospital with a group of soldiers and they all went into a large ward, which was meant to acclimate the soldiers to being in the hospital (01:09:41:00)  However, by that point, Johnson was not in a very good mood because he did not like being sent to the hospital (01:10:01:00)  When the nurses first came to check on him, Johnson told them to leave him along and they did for a while, until an officer from overseas asked why Johnson was being ornery (01:10:10:00)  Eventually, the hospital staff managed to get Johnson settled down and got his tooth taken care of (01:10:36:00)  Over time, Johnson noticed that the same nurse was checking on him and when he finally asked her why she kept coming back, the nurse said that she liked Johnson (01:10:53:00) o Instead of receiving a traditional discharge, Johnson ended up receiving a medical discharge because he had spent three or four months in the hospital (01:11:12:00) o Because he had been out of touch with home for so long, cultural, everything, such as music, was new to him (01:11:36:00)  The adjustment of going from the front line to the “front bed” was a little much for Johnson (01:11:47:00) o At the time of his discharge, Johnson figures he probably weighed one-hundredand-twenty pounds, soaking wet, and he, like the other soldiers, was beat up (01:11:56:00) o Realizing that he did not have as much pressure on him as he did during combat was a tremendous factor for Johnson and he was in an adjustment period for a long time, even after his discharge (01:12:15:00)  Going from everyday life in combat to having people who had not been overseas taking care of him was a big adjustment and sometimes, it did not go over well (01:12:34:00)  One of the first things Johnson would look for on the people who would take care of him was whether or not they had an overseas service ribbons (01:12:59:00) o One of the people was a major and Johnson ended up hitting it off with him right away; when Johnson said he might be taking things too far in his reaction, the major said �   that he was not and Johnson’s state-of-mind was a normal reaction that most people did not understand (01:13:03:00) o On V-J Day, Johnson told the person in-charge of the ward he was in that he was going out that night; although the person said “no”, Johnson disregarded that, put on his clothes behind everyone’s back, and put his hospital gown back on over the clothes (01:14:07:00)  Johnson knew where the back entrance to the hospital was, so he slipped out and went to downtown Chicago (01:14:35:00)  Johnson was wearing all his ribbons on his uniform, so he did not buy a drink the entire night; in fact, drinks were coming from Johnson’s right and left and he did a pretty good job at putting them away (01:14:46:00)  About one o’clock in the morning, Johnson headed back to the hospital; when he arrived back, the head of the ward was waiting for him (01:14:59:00)  Most of the soldiers who could drink did so; Johnson figures it was a way of dealing with what was going on (01:15:28:00) o As he stayed in the hospital, Johnson continued to gain weight, gaining thirty pounds in only thirty days; Johnson ended up eating Milky Way candy bars by the carton (01:15:46:00)  While in the hospital, Johnson also ended up giving up smoking (01:16:02:00)  On the voyage from Le Havre to the United States, there was a priest aboard the Liberty ship and when Johnson said that he was going to quit smoking, the priest condescendingly said “I bet you are” (01:16:22:00)  The priest gave Johnson his name and number and told Johnson to call him in six months to see if he really did quit smoking (01:16:48:00)  When the priest asked Johnson what made him think he could quit smoking, Johnson said it was simply mind over matter and if Johnson had the mind to do it, then he would do it (01:16:55:00)  Although the priest said it was not that simply, that was the challenge for Johnson (01:17:05:00) Johnson’s period of adjustment back to civilian life lasted for roughly four years, right up until he went back to school (01:17:01:00) o Up until that point, Johnson did not have the faintest idea that he was capable of doing anything like that (01:17:39:00)  Eventually, someone in Grand Rapids put Johnson through a series of tests that said he was able to do it (01:17:45:00) While Johnson was still in the hospital, the women who had been coming to see him continued to do so and eventually, they decided to get married (01:18:15:00) o Johnson’s future wife visited for about four months while he was going through rehab before they decided to get married without telling her parents until the last minute (01:18:54:00) Johnson finally returned home to Greenville in either late 1945 or early 1946 (01:19:59:00) �  o Once he was finally home, Johnson went to work for his father, who was then working as a carpenter after he and Johnson’s mother had moved off their farm and into Greenville (01:20:22:00)  While Johnson was growing up during the Great Depression, apart from working on the family farm, his father also worked as a Bell Telephone repairman; having that little extra job was the difference between a family making or not making it during the depression (01:20:42:00)  Prior to Johnson’s father, both Johnson’s grandfather and greatgrandfather had worked as carpenters (01:20:58:00)  At the time, putting up wallpaper was extremely popular, so Johnson’s primary job was putting up the paste for the wallpaper apart with other odd jobs (01:21:12:00) o In the meantime, Johnson joined the VFW in Greenville, which had an influx of new membership following the war (01:21:31:00) o Eventually, Johnson and his wife bought their first house for only six thousand dollars (01:21:50:00) o Although he had a job and his family, Johnson was still floating around, not really know what he wanted to do with his life (01:22:17:00)  Eventually, someone suggested a counselor in nearby Grand Rapids who specialized in working with veterans, so Johnson made an appointment to talk with him (01:22:21:00)  During the appointment, Johnson went through a battery of different tests before the counselor told Johnson to come back in a couple of weeks, at which point (01:22:34:00)  When Johnson returned, the counselor informed him that he was capable of going to college and listed off several colleges that Johnson could choose from (01:22:47:00) Eventually, Johnson chose to go to Ferris State University, located in Big Rapids, Michigan and spent the next several years at the university (01:22:58:00) o While at the university, Johnson changed his mind several times about his major before finally settling on earning degrees in history and accounting (01:23:16:00) o Johnson ended up earning his degree in only three years because he elected to attend classes in the summer (01:23:42:00)  However, at the end of his third year, Johnson was called in and told there was a man looking to hire a principal and Johnson was up for an interview (01:23:481:00)  Johnson was initially hesitant but during the interview, the man told Johnson about the school and Johnson ended up taking the position, which was in Maple City, Michigan (01:24:02:00) Johnson took the job and after a couple of years, the school district decided to consolidate, so he spent three or four years working on consolidating three schools into one school (01:24:34:00) o Once the school were consolidated, the administrations from each of the three schools had to agree as to who would continue working for the newly-consolidate school (01:25:07:00) �  o Johnson began looking around for other jobs and eventually found a job working at another school, one that had never had a principal before (01:25:21:00)  Johnson interviewed for the job and was hired to the a principal in the Roscommon, Michigan school district, where he stayed for nine or ten years (01:25:47:00) o After Roscommon, took a job working in Bellaire, Michigan before returning home to Greenville when Johnson’s father died (01:20:01:00) o Eventually, the opportunity came along for Johnson to head up a Council For Aging Program, so he applied and received the position (01:26:29:00)  Johnson stayed in the position for eight or nine years before going into selling insurance; after a while, Johnson decided to start his own insurance company (01:27:02:00) o Eventually, Johnson came full circle and began working with his son, who was a contractor, doing construction work (01:27:37:00)  When he was eighty-three years old, Johnson ended up working with his son to build a house for their minister (01:27:51:00) During one of his times working as a principal, Johnson was not only the principal but the head of the local Chamber of Commerce; however, Johnson eventually told the local school board that it was a problem because he was constantly being called out of the school to deal with issues (01:28:27:00) o However, the school board wanted Johnson to keep the job, so he stayed on as both the principal and the head of the Chamber of Commerce (01:28:41:00) Doing the interviews for the project was hard for Johnson because he would try to pull back the memories and would inevitable miss some details, which he would then remember later on (01:29:31:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonE1347V2 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Edward (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Johnson was born in Greenville, Michigan in 1919, and was drafted into the Army in 1941. After training to be a mechanic at Camp Boyd, Texas, Johnson joined Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion 16th Infantry, 1st Infantry Division. He went to England with this unit in 1942, and stayed with it through campaigns in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of the Bulge and the invasion of Germany, ending up in Czechoslovakia when the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f900bff396272523b0e0d4f66483ab5f.mp4 0c064cb5f280b0a974f46640246279a3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/248fa884eb6d9bcd5b312a24ef53ba80.pdf 74c57e6578a3a128c864e9f164f7fe12 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Al Johnson Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (01:17:23) Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (0:00:00)       Born in Columbus, OH in 1923. Father was in the Army and worked as an ROTC instructor. Moved around and ended up in Grand Rapids, MI. His brother was drafted in 1942 and became an Army Engineer. Graduated high school in 1942 and worked in a factory in Muskegon, MI making gaskets. Was drafted into the army. Training (0:04:40)          Reported to Fort Custer, MI and was shipped to Abilene, TX for basic training. (0:05:08) After basic training, when to the Army Hospital in San Antonio, TX and trained to be a scrub nurse. He was there for 3 months. (0:06:26) Was shipped to a holding camp in Denver, CO, where he found out about OSS and signed up. He was there for 2-3 months. (0:08:40) he was shipped to the Congressional Country Club in Washington, DC where he took basic OSS training. (0:10:35) He was trained with a group of French-Canadians, as he spoke some French. (0:12:05) He spent 4-5 months training. He was able to get off of base quite a bit during training. (0:14:30) He was given training in weapons near present day Camp David, MD. (0:16:30) His unit was trained in guerilla warfare, primarily to work with the French Underground. Active Duty (0:17:10)      He was shipped across the Atlantic to North Africa in a convoy. He was on a Liberty Ship. There was quite a bit of seasickness on the crossing. (0:20:10) Landed in Casablanca, Morocco where they were put in boxcars and shipped to Algiers, Algeria. (0:21:30) In Algiers, they took further parachute training. (0:24:40) After Algeria, they were taken Brockhall Manor in England, where they took more parachute training. Uniquely, they learned to jump from balloons. �                 (0:26:10) In August, 1944 he was sent to France with 15 other men. His mission there was to take a hydroelectric dam that was crucial to the allied invasion of Southern France. (0:29:50) He was taken over France in a B-24 that was specially fitted for their operation. He was supposed to jump at 1000 ft but had to jump at 500 ft because of pilot error. They were met on the ground by French resistance fighters who took them to various locations in the area. They were moved at night. (0:36:30) They took the dam without firing a shot. There were Germans at the dam when they arrived but they withdrew before the ultimatum that was given to them. (0:39:55) At one point, he ambushed a group of SS, and got lost after the battle. However, he was eventually found by his own group. (0:43:30) His unit eventually captured an airfield and got picked up by a C-47 Cargo plane. (0:44:50) He was taken back to England by the end of September 1944. (0:45:35) At this point, he was given the option of either joining the regular Army or being shipped to China, so his whole unit chose to be shipped to China. (0:46:10) Before they were shipped to China, they were given a 30 day furlough in the US. (0:46:40) After the furlough, they were shipped to San Diego and boarded a ship which took them to Mumbai, India. The ship that they crossed on was a former passenger liner which held around 5000 men. The journey took them around 30 days. (0:49:38) Once he got to India, he boarded a train to Calcutta. He vividly remembers the poverty he saw while on the train. (0:50:44) He then drove the Burma road to China. He drove Jeep which was pulling a small howitzer. They moved at a rate of 100 miles per day for 7 days. (0:54:00) He crossed a small, one lane bridge from Burma into China. (0:54:45) He was stationed on the outskirts of the city of Kunming, China. They were housed in a compound just north of the city, where they trained Chinese soldiers in parachuting and combat. (0:57:50) He was given the assignment to keep the Japanese from taking Chinese rice. They actively fought the Japanese and had two of their men wounded. (1:01:10) He found out that the war had ended by radio. However, he had to stay in China an extra 30 days, because of the civil war that was breaking out. (1:02:30) He got to the city of Hanyang, where he worked for a while in medicine in the area. He also worked providing medical care for the Chinese Nationalist Army. (1:10:20) After 30 days, they were flown to Calcutta and taken by boat back to the US. Post-War (1:11:47)  He attended Grand Rapids Junior College after the war, and worked in a factory and as an office manager. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonE Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Ellsworth (Al) (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Ellsworth Description An account of the resource Al Johnson was born in Columbus, Ohio, and served in the OSS during World War II. He was drafted into the Army after high school, and was selected for OSS after basic training. He was sent to England, and then parachuted into France where his unit helped the French resistance secure a dam. He was then shipped to China where he helped train the Chinese Army to fight the Japanese. After the war, he stayed in China for 30 days to help the Nationalist Army, and was then shipped home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8ab383d4f0f74caf94e90724cb56742.mp4 76ff939cdb55fdc1eef6ca6da7627323 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7a54ee49be5edacd9f9618755540c0cc.pdf 3b54ce923883daa841b9f0d82eddf483 PDF Text Text GrandValleyStateUniversity Veterans History Project Fay Johnson () Background Information ()                    He was born in LowellMichigan in (approx. 1925). He had one older brother. (00:49) He was in the Martin School District, but he was so far away from Martin schools that his tuition was sent t East Grand Rapids. (2:21:00) Due to overcrowding in East Grand Rapids, Fay had to be sent to yet another school district. (3:00) Fay finished school up to the 11th grade at East Grand Rapids Michigan. (3:30) His least favorite class was Latin. (4:15) Fay regularly hitchhiked to get to school. (4:34) Fay did not enjoy going to EastGrand RapidsHigh School but his mother insisted he attend it because it was seen as the most elite Grand Rapids school. (5:35) Fay transferred to Lowell High School in 1942. (6:14) During Fay’s first day in Lowell, the seniors were on strike during count day. (6:40) Mostly Fay road the bus, occasionally Fay and his brother would drive the car. (7:44) Fay had an older brother named Bill Johnson. (9:25) He served on student council. He did not play any sports because if he had he had no way to get home when practices were completed. (10:11) He met his future wife while in high school. (12:00) Fay’s father was a mechanic. He like building things but had trouble focusing on a single project until completion. (13:22) His mother was a housewife. (14:11) While a child, Fay was in the Boy Scouts and would go camping often. Fay worked as a caddy at a golf course when older. He made 75 cents an hour. (15:30) Fay also worked on a celery farm when he was young. (16:01) Fay and his family also ran a small family farm that often raised 1 crop. (18:04) Because there was no deferment offered as a result of working at a golf course, the employees there were often only old men and teenagers. (19:04) Junior College (20:28)    Fay was taking a lot of science classes, however he found it had to seriously pursue an education because he knew of his unavoidable possibility of being drafted. After 2 months of college Fay enlisted in the U.S. Navy in November of 1943. (20:34) Not only did everyone already want to get involved in the war, but also if Fay enlisted he was allowed to choose his own branch. (21:19) After enlisting, Fay was sent by train to Detroit. Here the men were given a physical. (22:22) Basic Training (23:12)  In November of 1943 Fay was sent by train to boot camp in Idaho. The trip took approx 2-3 days. (23:19) �         Fay’s highest rank was Fire Control 2nd class. (23:57) The men first had to take their clothes and ship them back home when they arrived at boot camp. The men were then issued military uniforms. (24:56) The barracks was a great big 2 story building that housed 140 men. (25:35) The men were issued dress blues and undressed blues, some jeans and a jean shirt, socks, underwear, shirts, and 2 pairs of shoes. (26:00) The men had to fit all of their clothes into a sea bag. (26:47) At night, it was not uncommon to hear men cry because they were homesick. Other men were happy to be in the Navy because it was the first time they had ever had 3 meals a day. (27:39) In boot camp the men did close order drill with wooden rifles and learn to tie knots. (28:12) Men would occasionally have to do guard and patrol duty. (29:20) Fay was originally made a radio technician after completing his aptitude test. (30:54) Service School (31:34)          After given 15 days of leave Fay was sent to service school in downtown Chicago. This lasted 6 weeks. (31:34) Fay was sent to GulfportMississippi, via train for his next portion of training. The trip took 3 days. (32:26) Fay continued his education of mathematics and electronics in Mississippi. The training lasted 6 weeks. (33:42) After Fay had some difficulties with his training he was sent to Fire Control school. (34:00) Fay was then sent to Great Lakes Naval Base in Illinois for Fire Control school. (34:43) As a fire control man, Fay worked on many of the ship's guns. (35:50) In November of 1944 Fay was sent to Treasure Island in San FranciscoCalifornia, where he was assigned to a ship. (36:40) After about a week, Fay was assigned aboard the USS Terry, a destroyer. He was given the task of maintaining equipment and standing watch. (37:38) The men were given leave before being sent out overseas. (39:38) Voyage to the Pacific (40:30)       The ship stopped first in Pearl HarborHawaii. The men were allowed to leave the ship when not on watch. (40:38) If the men were allowed off the ship they most often had to be back on board by 6 PM. (42:07) Planes would tow targets for the fire control men to practice their anti aircraft fire. (42:40) When leaving Pearl Harbor the ship left in a convoy. (43:10) The men were preparing for the invasions of Iwo Jima and Saipan. (43:27) Fay did not meet very many civilians while in Saipan. Many had committed suicide of a cliff over fear of the U.S. soldiers killing and raping them. (44:13) Invasion of (February 1945) (45:33)     The men thought taking Iwo Jima would only take 10 days. (45:58) The landing zones were shelled heavily for 3 days before landing. (46:48) A picture of the ordnance department. All men were necessary on the maintenance and firing of the gun. (48:40) The insignia on each man’s arm signified their position and job. (50:00) �    When ships were not firing they were sent to the North end of the island on radar picket duty. (50:33) While on watch the men often played pinochle. (51:01) While on watch, the ship was attacked by a Japanese bomber. A torpedo was dropped but missed the ship. (52:09) The ship did have several holes punched in it by enemy fire while at Iwo Jima. Divers had to be sent under the ship to patch the holes. Later welders were implored to make more permanent repairs. (53:30) Repairs in the U.S. (55:17)      Fay and his ship were sent back to PearHarbor then back to San Francisco for repairs. (55:17) The Ship was in San Francisco for 2 months. Most of the men (including Fay) mere sent home via train (55:30) Before the ship left again the men had to restock the ship as well as implore target practice. (56:00) Because of a change in position that Fay was undergoing he was required to go to gunnery school. This lasted 3-4 weeks. (56:44) The ship did eventually ship out of San Diego. As the men returned to the Pacific they were placed in Task Force 58 off of Japan. (57:10) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonF1299V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Fay (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Fay Description An account of the resource Fay Johnson, born in Lowell Michigan in 1925, served in the U.S. Navy from 1943 to 1945 in the Pacific during World War II. After completing his basic training, Fay was sent to specialty school where he eventually was made a fire controller. After training, Fay was placed aboard the destroyer USS Terry and sailed to Saipan and then took part in the invasion of Iwo Jima. The ship encountered some damage during the invasion and needed to be sent back to San Francisco for repairs, and returned to duty off the coast of Japan before the end of the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Blough, Nick (Interviewer) Blough, Ivan (Interviewer) Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-11-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d4de345f4d2c65e89c7db0bdc8dcf05a.mp4 db1c9dd60ec87e58466dbcf4ccc0f085 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fa245d751082c5b91b0b108db61b9f1b.pdf baaa10d73c4500b89fbca2f3aaf901ca PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Fay Johnson (52:52) (00:35) Background Information • • • • Fay grew up in Grand Rapids, MI He went to East Grand Rapids Schools Fay graduated from Lowell High School in 1943 He enlisted in the Navy in November 1943 (03:55) Training • • • • • • • • • • Fay was sent to Idaho for boot camp Boot camp lasted 6 weeks He was sent to radio tech school in Chicago, IL for 6 weeks Fay then went to Gulfport, Mississippi for advanced radio school, but didn’t pass He went to Great Lakes Naval Training Center for fire control school In November 1944 he was assigned to the destroyer USS Terry Fay was a computer operator on a Mark 1 computer that would determine where to fire shells He thought the service schools were great From GLNTC he could go into Chicago or go home on the weekends Fire control was part of the ordinance company (10:32) USS Terry • • • • • • • • • • • Fay boarded the USS Terry in San Francisco They went to Iwo Jima Their objective was to fire at spots on the island when the marines gave them coordinates Sometimes while they were getting the coordinates they could hear Japanese in the background The USS Terry was there for 3-4 weeks and then was put on picket duty They were sent up to Japan to notify people of planes leaving Japan and to pick up any pilots that went down A Japanese plane dropped a bomb, but missed them On the way back to Iwo Jima they were hit by three shells from a small island and 11 people were killed They had to go back to San Francisco to get repaired A lot of things had to get replaced and it took 70 days Fay was able to go home on a 30 day leave in April 1945 while the ship was being fixed �(18:40) Victory in Japan • • • • • • • • • • • • They went to Japan to get ready for the invasion Their ship was assigned to escort an aircraft carrier to Japan Soldiers were being transferred from Europe to prepare for the invasion The atom bombs were dropped and the Japanese surrendered They were assigned to escort the USS Detroit to the surrendering ceremonies in Tokyo Harbor The soldiers could go to shore, but they had to carry a pistol Fay would barter with cigarettes He went to Tokyo and Yokohama They were then assigned to escort the mine sweepers There wasn’t much to do and they had to paint the ship a lot He still meets up with people from the USS Terry at reunions There were about 350 people stationed on the USS Terry and now there are only 25-30 left (33:04) Discharge • • • • • • • The ship was going to be decommissioned, so they were sent to San Pedro Harbor in Los Angeles, CA in April, 1946 Fay had enough points to go home He was discharged at GLNTC and went back to Grand Rapids Fay went back to college and joined the Navy reserves He worked at his father’s plating company at night It was all too much for him so he quit the Navy and college The Navy contacted him and said he was supposed to report to Detroit because his letter of resignation had not been accepted (36:45) Korean War • Fay was married and had a kid • He was sent to Chicago because he had polio and the Navy didn’t know what to do with him • They sent him to San Francisco with the Pacific Reserve Fleet • Fay sent in applications to get a discharge • He was transferred to the USS Chief in San Pedro • Fay got his papers approved and went home (44:44) After the Navy �• • • • Fay is now a member of the American Legion He learned to fly with the GI Bill Fay could get surplus equipment for his father’s company He feels that all veterans are equal � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonF Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Fay (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Fay Description An account of the resource Fay Johnson was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and graduated from Lowell High School. After high school he joined the Navy and first trained as a radio tech and then a fire controller. He was assigned to the USS Terry and boarded it in November 1944. They went to Iwo Jima and their mission was to fire at targets on the island given to them by the marines. They were at Iwo Jima for 3-4 weeks and then went on picket duty between Japan and Iwo Jima. On their way back to Iwo Jima they were hit three times and had to go to San Francisco to get repaired. After they were repaired they were getting ready for the Japanese invasion, but the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Debra (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/082269c4a9bd70e423eccc04e893e519.mp4 49f779bbc52a2d57ec2aec689a8e099f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9896d672e6e998e7816ccc28e6ecea88.pdf 95ca4bac358091c92b05fcaf79f6b659 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Forrest Johnson World War II (1:24:20) Background Information (1:20)           Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on January 18th 1922. (1:22) His father was a millwright (1:33) His father kept this job until they fired him. The then found another job that he worked till he retired. He did not have trouble keeping work during the Depression. (2:15) He graduated from Davis Tech high school in 1941. He met his wife in high school. (2:33) He has been married twice. His second wife being a German woman. (3:24) The night of Pearl Harbor happened he decided to marry his high school girl friend. (3:57) He tried to volunteer for the military. He went to the Army Air Corps in Muskegon. He made it in but was rejected due to his color blindness. (4:37) He was rejected from the Marines as well because they knew of his color blindness. (5:20) He had a son before going into service. (5:45) He was drafted in 1943 (6:20) Basic training (7:05)               He first went to Camp Bowie, Texas. (7:08) He attempted to join the 215th Combat Police but failed. (7:25) Unable to make it as an MP, he was sent to Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas, to go into basic infantry. (7:50) In the early stages of basic the men did a lot of hiking. They had not yet been assigned a weapon. (8:30) He joined the 95th infantry Division. All the new men were kept together. (10:00) The men were sent to Camp Needles, California. The men were sent to the base by train. The trip took 3 days. (11:12) The men were then loaded on to trucks and taken to another camp in California which was a tent city in the “middle of nowhere.” (11:37) While the men were performing a drill some got lost in the mountains and were lost for 3 days. (12:15) After discovered the men were sent back to the camp via truck. (13:20) The men did many maneuvers during training. The company was seen as being too old of age to be applicable in combat. The average age of his division was 34. (14:24) In order to drop the average age many men were replaced with younger soldiers. After the average age was dropped the men were given new equipment. (15:20) From California the men were sent to Pennsylvania. Here he recalls having rappelling exercises. (15:44) While rappelling, one of the men fell. He was not injured. (17:58) He was in Pennsylvania for about 2 weeks. Here they did more maneuvers. (20:07) �       His platoon had to train other troops here on climbing after they were trained on the subject. (21:00) While the engineers were building a bridge, one of them drowned and the bridge was not completed. (22:25) His platoon frequently ran maneuvers where the men had to take a machine gun position. (23:33) When returning from a maneuver, the jeep that carried him popped 3 tires trying to get back to the base. (24:38) In the later part of his training in Pennsylvania, his platoon was assigned ASTP men who were younger. (The program sent promising recruits to colleges to prepare them for engineer training, but was abruptly cancelled and the men were reassigned to the infantry.) This dropped the average age of the company significantly. (25:31) The men were then given new equipment such as rifles. Forrest however, was not assigned a new rifle. (25:41) From Pennsylvania the men were sent to Camp Miles Standish in Massachusetts. (25:58) Voyage to Europe (26:30)        The men were then sent over on a confiscated French cruise liner from New York to Liverpool, England, in August of 1944. (26:54) The trip took 5 days. (27:25) From Liverpool the men went to Watford via train. (28:10) He recalls being able to see the castles while in England. (28:51) On October 10th 1944, the company was sent from England to Omaha Beach. (29:45) There was a dock. The men claimed down a rope later into an LST. He recalls a Colonel broke his ankle trying to make it form the boat to the landing crafts. (30:40) The beach looked burned out and ravaged. (31:30) Service in Europe (31:32)               The men were then sent via train to Carentan, France. (31:37) Because troop shipments had very low priority, any trip by train the men took was always very long. (32:03) There were 42 men in a 40 man box car. Most had to lay on their own duffle bags. (32:14) To solve space issues, Forrest took telephone wire and made himself a hammock. He was the first soldier to do this. (32:46) The men then stopped at Nancy, France. He stayed there for 30 days. (33:24) He only had 15 men in his company [platoon?] at this time. (34:25) While in Nancy, a fellow soldiered captured several patrolling Germans. (35:30) The men gave the Germans their C-rations. They said they hadn’t eaten in 3 days. (37:00) Though the Germans were on the opposite side of the Moselle River, the men were never fired upon. (37:38) The men found cattle on a farm and took it to eat. (39:34) The men were then loaded on to trucks and sent up to Metz. (41:30) He wasn’t put on a 50. Cal. Machine gun for approx. 8-10 days. (42:07) In a battle on a bridge, 15 men were wounded and 15 where killed. (43:00) His captain was wounded twice. The first time he was sent to a Paris hospital. (46:04) �Action at Amanvillers. (46:30)       He had to take the town of Amanvillers after the 5th Division had taken and then lost it. (46:53) The company came under sniper fire. The men took cover and Forrest ran into a building and out the back. While on the back side of the building he took fire by a sniper. (47:48) As the company continued to advance up the street he was hit with either a mortar or an 88. This hit shattered his riffle and sent wood shrapnel from the stock into his foot. (49:05) A piece of the shrapnel from his rifle was taken out in 2003. (49:23) After being wounded, the men were unable to get a stretcher to Forrest’s position. He had to be carried back about 1000 yards before being taken to CP. He was then taken via jeep to a hospital in Reims. (49:50) 2 of his friends in his company also were wounded badly by artillery. (51:53) Service after Wound (52:00)                Forrest was then taken to the U.K. on a medical ship. (52:50) The ship had very luxurious accommodations when compared to field conditions. (53:42) He was then taken to Manchester, England where he was placed in an American hospital. (53:56) His foot was infected with maggots after it was wounded but he got much of them out when being operated on in Paris. (56:04) The wound stunk just like the dead bodies he saw in the field. (57:10) The cast was removed from his foot in Manchester. (57:41) Over all he had approx. 4 casts placed on his foot. (58:20) While voyaging to Boston Harbor the medical ship spotted a submarine. Depth charges were dropped as a defense. (58:27) He landed at Pier 6 in Boston Harbor (approx January 28th 1945) (1:00:14) He was then taken to Stockton, Massachusetts for approx 1 week then he was sent to Gardner General Hospital outside of Chicago. (1:00:26) 8 days after Forrest was wounded his company was in combat that resulted in 30 casualties. (1:00:56) General Patton once visited his company and others to give “pep talks” Patton swore a lot during his speech. (1:02:02) He was discharged on December 15th 1944. However he was still being operated on till almost March of 1945. (1:04:23) During his operations, doctors concluded that Forrest had osteomyelitis, or, infection of the bone. (1:05:15) He still has shrapnel from his rifle and from the artillery shell still in his body. (1:07:23) Life after service (1:07:55)   He held 3-4 jobs after his service including time in a brass factory. He could not stand on his feet for long period while working. (1:08:00) He then worked at GM for approx. 30 years. (1:08:34) Final Thoughts on Service (1:09:00) �        He likes telling his story. (1:09:50) He never tried to deliberately kill a German soldier, only wound them. This idea as fostered by the belief that it takes 4 men to care for a wounded one and only one to bury a dead one. (1:10:14) He recalls carrying ammunition for the BAR man at time so that he could lay down fire more easily. (1:12:34) Forrest has a Nazi Flag souvenir that was signed by all the men in his company. (1:14:56) The flag was taken down in Hamm, Germany. (1:16:24) The flag was given to him at a reunion by the flag's owner. (1:18:30) The Flag came from an S.S. building. (1:20:07) His service got him in a book General George Patton and his lower level troops. (1:24:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonF1334V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Forrest (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Forrest Description An account of the resource Forrest Johnson, born in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Johnson served in the U.S. Army during World War II. After Pearl Harbor, he tried to join the Army Air Corps and the Marine Corps, but both rejected him due to colorblindness. The Army drafted him in 1943. He was eventually sent to Fort Sam Houston, Texas, to join the 378th Regiment, 95th Division, and went with them to train in the California desert before shipping to England in August, 1944. In October, they went to France and joined the 3rd Army at Nancy. Johnson participated in several battles near Metz, and was wounded at Amanvillers in November. The wound ended his military career early, sending him to hospitals in France, England and the US, and he was discharged in early 1945. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-01-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f078347312491bc9bad1b3124e7737cc.jpg 7038e126793d165a300dec033910a218 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonKenneth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Kenneth Description An account of the resource Kenneth Johnson, Mathematics Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a33e47b6ee531bc48138b514196624a4.jpg 48744bfb050d407e16455783aa25b121 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonLinda Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Linda Description An account of the resource Linda Johnson, Dean Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1981s