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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Al Kraker
World War II
1 hour 46 minutes
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born in Allendale, Michigan on June 26, 1924
-Grew up in Allendale
-Hadn't travelled further than fifty miles from home before he was in the Army
-Came from a farming family
-Family had a farm before the Great Depression
-Lost the farm during the Great Depression
-Retained a small piece of property
-During the Great Depression he worked for other local farmers
-Did manual labor and worked with heavy machinery
-Weeded by hand for 10¢ an hour
-Helped clear swampland with a Caterpillar
-Learned about vehicle repair at an automotive garage that was between home and school
-Frequently stopped there after school to learn more about cars
-Had a radio in their home, but rarely used it
-Due to his mechanical knowledge he was able to help with repairs in the home
-Went on to be useful knowledge in the Army
-Eventually led to him doing wiring on neighbor's houses after the war
-Graduated from high school in 1942
-Went to work at Keeler Brass
-After that worked for a boat company in Holland, Michigan
-Building wooden, thirty six foot, diesel powered landing crafts
-Worked there for four months until the defense contract expired
-Went to Muskegon for a job interview with two of his friends
-He got the job, but they didn't
-He had to decline the job because he relied on car pooling due to gas
rationing
-Went to Grand Rapids, Michigan to get a job with Rapistan
-It was a new company that needed employees
-He got a job, but his friends didn't
-Had to refuse again because he relied on car pooling
-Founder of the company reevaluated the hiring decision
-Hired his friends as well
-Wound up returning to work there for forty four years after the war
(00:07:26) Getting Drafted
-He received his draft notice in December 1942
-His friends had gotten their draft notices at the same time
-He was called up for service in February 1943
-Reported for basic training in March 1943

�(00:08:07) Basic Training
-He was sent to Camp Crowder, Missouri for Signal School
-He was initially placed in an automotive mechanic's school
-The officer teaching the course had no idea what he was doing
-He brought this to his commander's attention and was assigned different
duty
-Rather than train with the rest of the men he was able to work on trucks for three months
-He was still allowed to take part in the graduation ceremony at the end of basic
training
(00:10:06) Applying for Pilot Training
-At the end of training he decided that he wanted to try and be a pilot
-Signed up for that and took a lot of tests
-Training company commander pulled him aside
-Told him that he should wait until he was a little older to become a pilot
(00:10:54) Downtime at Camp Crowder
-Could get a pass every two weeks to go into Joplin, Missouri
-A river ran through the city and there were parks that lined the river
-Enjoyed going to those parks
(00:11:55) Deployment to the European Theatre
-He then applied for officers' training and was accepted after the Army Air Force
rejection
-He was then told to go wait for a train that was scheduled to arrive at 1 AM
-Train never came
-Went back to base and waited around for three days
-Got another notice to go to the train station
-Finally got on a train that was bound for New York City
-In New York he boarded the USS Monticello
-Bound for North Africa
-It was an Italian cruise ship before the war and had been converted into a
troopship
-There were 7,000 men on board
-It was incredibly hot and cramped
-Fed twice a day at 4AM and 4PM
-Only given a cup of oatmeal and an apple for each meal
-Could go on deck just once a day
-Monitored by Marines to make sure no one tried to hide on deck
-Left the United States in July 1943
-Part of a 200 ship convoy
-Protected by ships that were looking for U-Boats
-It was a slow convoy because they were travelling with fuel ships
-Had a problem with their propulsion system
-A steam engine exploded killing a few sailors
-Lost power as a result and were left behind by the convoy
-Engines were repaired and a day later they caught up with the
convoy
-Got to see the Straits of Gibraltar after they passed into the Mediterranean Sea

�(00:18:10) Arrival in North Africa
-Arrived in Oran, Algeria
-It was a beautiful, natural port city
-A friend of his had landed there six months earlier and had his ship torpedoed
-By the time that he arrived in July 1943 the Axis forces had been pushed out of Africa
-The first week he was there he got a fever
-Turned out that he had contracted malaria
-Spent two weeks in a hospital
(00:19:45) Joining the 591st Signal Depot Company
-He joined his company and there was a repair section that worked on generators
-He was selected to repair generators and assumed they were smaller generators
-Turned out they were larger generators used to power buildings
-He was ordered to repair one of those larger generators
-Managed to do it without any formal training
-He was assigned to the 591st Signal Depot Company
-Attached to the 34th Infantry Division
-They had lost a lot of men at the Kasserine Pass
-He was not received well by the older men in the unit
-They believed that 'kids' shouldn't be fighting a 'man's' war
-He also had a run in with the company commander
-Al had not been introduced to military etiquette and discipline in basic
training
-He answered casually to the company commander who took exception to
that
-He stayed with the 591st for one year
(00:24:09) Working with the 591st
-There was a period for a few months where he worked eighteen hour days, seven days a
week
-Used 100 octane gas to get grease stains out of clothes
-Company commander wouldn't allow anyone to go into the mess hall with dirty
clothes
-He was able to work fairly independently on projects
-Had 100 Italian prisoners of war
-He was given six prisoners to help him with basic maintenance tasks
-All of the prisoners were farmers that had no experience with machines
-None of them spoke English and he didn't have an interpreter that spoke
Italian
-They stayed behind when the 34th Infantry Division moved into Italy in September 1943
-Airplanes would come in in the morning to deliver damaged machines
-At the end of the day they would fly out with the repairs done
-A lot of machines were damaged due to negligence and stupidity
-For example: running a motor until it ran out of oil
(00:29:09) Living Conditions and Discipline Problems in North Africa
-They lived in tents a few miles outside of Oran
-There were six or seven other companies in the same area
-Each dealing with specialized tasks

�-Had a portable radio that had been salvaged from a jeep
-When they went into town with the radio the children would follow them
-Fascinated with what they were hearing on the radio
-The relationship between U.S. troops and the civilians was not good
-A lot of U.S. troops would scam civilians out of money
-The civilians would sneak onto the base to steal equipment
-Sometimes he and the other men would have to work until 1 AM
-Then they would have to deal with the company commander
-He would randomly wake them up at 2:30 or 3 AM to pick up cigarette
butts
-Three men couldn't handle it and wound up committing suicide
-This went on until a congresswoman inspected the base and interviewed
GIs
-After that things improved
-He applied to become a paratrooper shortly after the congress woman visited
-Just as a way to get out of that unit
-Company commander also stole vehicles and equipment
-Used it to pick up local girls and have sex with them
(00:37:12) Airborne Training
-He went for an all day physical exam to become a paratrooper
-Had bad vision in his right eye which should've barred him from Airborne
service
-The medical examiner was an old friend from high school
-Approved him for Airborne training
-Went to southern Italy for Airborne training
-The first day there he had to jog five miles without stopping
-The second day he had to jog ten miles without stopping
-The third day, and every day after that, he had to jog twenty miles without
stopping
-Started with 650 applicants
-If you fell over and lost consciousness you were allowed to continue training
-If you just quit you were washed out and sent to the infantry
-Received training with different rifles and the bazooka
-On their way to their first training jump they saw British paratroopers doing a training
jump
-One of those men had a faulty parachute and fell to his death
-On his fourth training jump he was carrying a forty five pound machine gun
-It was a windy day and he had a hard landing
-Resulted in a few crushed vertebrae which led to a month in the hospital
(00:44:01) Assignment to the 10th Mountain Division
-He was sent to a replacement camp after recovering
-Went on five mile marches every day and set up mortars for live fire exercises
-At 3PM they packed up the mortars and went back to base
-There were 7,000 men at the replacement camp
-The goal was to keep them occupied so that nothing bad happened
-He was there for about one month

�-Received orders to join the 10th Mountain Division
-Got some more training with them
-They were scheduled to go into northern Italy to push out the Germans there
(00:46:14) Appendicitis
-On the day that they were supposed to go he went to the hospital
-Had been complaining of abdominal problems
-Turned out that he had appendicitis and needed to have it removed
-He was at that hospital for one week
-Treated by an older doctor that believed bed rest really meant not leaving the bed
-The patients were transferred to a hospital in Naples
-Had to wait an hour to get a bed
-Asked a nurse if she could get him something to eat
-Told him that after so many days he would have to do it himself
-Problem was, he couldn't walk, so a friend of his went and got him some
food
-Had to get used to walking again
-After he recovered he was sent to another replacement camp
-While at the hospital in Naples he saw some of the paratroopers that he had trained with
-They had done a combat jump and were severely wounded in the resulting
fighting
-Made him thankful that he had gotten hurt on the training jump
(00:51:32) Traveling Italy
-While at the second replacement camp the 10th Mountain Division had their last battle
-This would have been in late April 1945
-Every morning he would go to the bulletin board to see if he was getting reassigned
-Spent a lot of time doing more weapons training
-Finally got orders to join a unit
-The unit he had orders for was the 591st Signal Depot Company
-Decided that he would rather not rejoin that unit
-Hopped a freight train in hopes of traveling to Germany
-Brother was in the 3rd Armored Division and he wanted to visit
him
-While recovering from the vertebrae injury he wrote a letter to his old company
commander
-Told him what he really thought of him
-Hadn't seen his brother in four years
-Couldn't get on an airplane in Rome because he had the wrong kind of uniform
-Hopped another train and went to Naples
-Boarded a plane that he thought was bound for Germany
-Stowed away in the cargo hold
-Co-pilot went to check the cargo and found him
-Told Al their destination was Burma, not Germany
-Al got off the plane and went to Caserta thirty miles north of Naples
-It was serving as the headquarters for the Supreme Allied Commander
-Went there and said that he was lost and showed them his orders
-Spent a whole day in a colonel's office

�-Made contact with the 591st and sent for a jeep
-Wound up sleeping in the colonel's office
-When the colonel came back he was angry that Al slept in the
office
-Until he realized that a jeep had never been sent
-Prior to going to boarding the plane in Naples Al knew where the 591st was
-He had no money, and no food
-Hitchhiked to the camp and got there around 2AM
-Started looking for the cook that he had been friends with in Africa
-Found him and woke him up successfully
-Got some food then went back to Naples
-After that is when he reported to Caserta to go to the 591st
(01:05:00) Rejoining the 591st
-Eventually rejoined the 591st
-Expected to be berated by the company commander
-Didn't see him for three days
-On the third day the company commander asked Al to see him in his
office
-Told Al that he didn't want him in the 591st, but they needed him
-They were going to the Philippines, but the other men didn't know
-Started to receive additional training from a lieutenant from the infantry
-The man had zero experience and Al didn't feel like getting killed by
incompetence
-Told the company commander that he wouldn't train under that lieutenant
-The company commander agreed
(01:09:06) Deployment to the Pacific Theatre
-The men were deeply depressed when they were told that they weren't going home
-Sailed on an APA across the Atlantic Ocean and through the Panama Canal
-Crossed the Pacific Ocean without any escorts
-Ship was crowded
-Got a job with the crew so he didn't have to just sit around doing nothing
-Placed on the garbage detail
-Sorting trash and dumping it overboard
-Kept him busy for a few days
-Got sent a frying pan, a carton of eggs, bread, and a crate of
oranges
-Gifts from the cook that got Al the job
-Stopped in Hollandia, New Guinea to refuel
(01:15:02) Stationed in the Philippines
-Arrived in Manila
-Set up tents
-Waited there for a couple days for a ship to take them to Cebu, Philippines
-During that time the atomic bombs were dropped and Japan surrendered
-He contracted dysentery and was sent to the hospital
-Ten days of treatment and seventeen shots
-He got eight shots in his left arm and two in his right arm

�-Arms swelled up and he couldn't feed himself
-Had to spend an extra week in the hospital recovering
-Eventually rejoined the 591st
-Not allowed to do any heavy work for a month
-Spent a lot of time going into Cebu
(01:18:39) Returning to the United States
-He went back to the station hospital and still had dysentery
-In worse condition than he thought he was
-Got the shots again, but they didn't help
-Started getting sores due to the heat
-Head surgeon decided that he needed to be in a colder climate to recover
-Boarded a hospital ship and set sail
-On the third day they hit a typhoon and the ship lost power
-Ran into a man that he went to high school with
-Had to eat standing up
-The waves were fifty feet high
-Had to cover the smoke stack so water wouldn't get into the engine
-Had to tie themselves to the bed so the waves didn't throw them out
-Eventually got power back to the ship
-Only pulling five knots though (roughly 5.7 miles per hour)
-After the ship's power was returned the captain decided to take the northern route
-Sailed up to Alaska
-Had ice all over the ship that was a foot thick
-Able bodied patients had to chip the ice
-Sailed down the West Coast and pulled into San Francisco on January 10, 1946
-Spent a week in a hospital in San Francisco
(01:27:17) End of Service and Coming Home
-Boarded a train and went to Mayo General Hospital in Galesburg, Illinois
-Spent a couple months there
-After six weeks he was given a pass to go home
-Wasn't able to hitch a ride home
-Most people were reluctant to help a soldier
-Only ever got as far north as Benton Harbor, Michigan
-At the end of his stay at the hospital he had four days of dentist work done
-After that he was discharged from the Army
-Took a train to Grand Rapids, Michigan
-Got to his sister's house at 1 or 2 AM
(01:30:47) Life after the War
-He went back to work at Rapistan
-Had waited eighty days because he was hoping to start his own automotive
garage
-Decided that he didn't have the finances to do that
-Worked on an assembly conveyor
-Got transferred to a position on a steel shearer
-He decided to get into home building so he quit Rapistan
-Didn't have the money for that either so he went back to work for Rapistan

�-One day he was out driving by Allendale
-Saw a hitchhiker and decided to give him a ride
-Hitchhiker shot Al and then pulled a knife on Al
-Al managed to disarm him and got control of the pistol
-Hitchhiker fled the car and Al tried to shoot him
-Pistol's firing pin was broken
-Another driver found Al and took him to Butterworth Hospital in Grand Rapids
-He was treated by a a surgeon that had treated men in World War One
-Had surgery without anesthesia
-Passed out and regained consciousness five days later
-Took a year to fully recover
-Went back to work at Rapistan as a purchasing agent
-Eventually got promoted and ran the department for twenty five years until he
retired
(01:44:15) Reflections on Service
-Helped him grow up
-Learned to keep his mouth shut
-In a way, it led to him returning to work at Rapistan after the war and he enjoyed his
career

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                <text>Al Kraker was born in Allendale, Michigan on June 26, 1924. He grew up there and when he was older learned about engines at a local automotive garage. After graduating from high school in 1942 he was drafted in December of that year and reported for basic training in March 1943. He was sent to Camp Crowder, Missouri where he spent three months working on trucks. In July 1943 he was sent to North Africa and arrived in Oran, Algeria. He was assigned to the 591st Signal Depot Company in a repair section working on generators. He was stationed there for a year until he applied for Airborne Training. He trained in Italy until he suffered a severe back injury on a training jump. After recovering he was assigned to the 10th Mountain Division, but was unable to see action with them due to a case of appendicitis. He was eventually reassigned to the 591st and went to the Pacific Theatre with them in the summer of 1945. He was briefly stationed in the Philippines, but contracted dysentery and had to be sent back to the United States after Japan surrendered. He was sent to a hospital in Galesburg, Illinois to recover and was discharged from the Army in early spring 1946.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Name of Interviewee: Donald M. Kramer
Name of War: Vietnam War
Interview Length Disc #1: (01:06:30)
Interview Length Disc#2: (01:51:40)
Interview Length Disc #3: (00:40:35)
Interview Length Disc #4: (01:28:40)
Disc One (01:11:41)
(00:00:25) Background Information
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Don was born in Gary, Indiana on April 3, 1943
His family was very close when he was young and he has many good memories
They were a lower-middle class family and his parents had to work a lot
His father worked in Gary Steel Mills and his mother worked for Amco Window
Washing (02:55)
He went to a Catholic elementary school that was very hard for him and he got in many
fights. Further discusses the good times of his childhood—dancing &amp; family.
Don got his first real job when he was 9 years old at a grocery store
When he was 12 he got a paper route and had to deliver 110 papers every day before
school (13:12)

(00:14:30) High School
 There were many race issues at Don’s high school
 Don could not afford to take a bus to school and had to walk every day
 He started playing basketball and made many new friends, yet he still did not like school
and got bad grades
 Don joined the Navy before his senior year and got his GED when he was 17 (16:58)
 His dad was in the Army during World War Two and had told him that the Navy would
be a better choice than the Army
(00:19:25) Joining the Navy 1960
 (019:45) Was recruited out of Gary, Indiana.
 Don went through basic training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Illinois
 There was no draft at the time because so many people were volunteering for the service
 The drill sergeant was a giant and told them that they were going to be miserable
 Don stated that the “service is the biggest individual change you could make in your
whole life.”
 Don had to get all of his hair cut off and the men had to wash their clothes on their hands
and knees in the shower (25:03)
 The men had lots of pressure about completing their class work
(00:29:34) Norfolk, Virginia

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Don was sent on an Attack Transport ship with 1000 marines to Virginia
There were many giant ships in the area and Don had never seen anything like it
His MOS was radar school, but he found it very boring (31:08)
He began working on ships instead and really liked being able to work outside
Don also enjoyed being out on the ocean when everything was calm
They saw many sharks and shot all of them; they even ate some of them

(00:40:44) The Deck Department
 Don was working on maintaining the ship, which was a luxury liner that had been
converted in World War Two
 Many dolphins would jump through the engine parts and get hurt, also damaging the ship.
 Don learned about nautical knots, different types of ships, and worked on painting and
repairs
(00:45:10) Don’s Wife
 Don was married and had one daughter when he joined the Navy
 He met his wife in Gary and did not get along well with her parents
 They got married when they were only 17 and they had his daughter when he was 18
 They were living in Navy housing
 Don was gone on average of 6 months a year and worked on the port for about 3 months
a year
 They had 4 children together and they were all born premature (59:52)
(01:01:25) The Caribbean
 They took a ship through the Caribbean for six months, but had stopped in Charleston,
North Carolina to pick up about 1,000 Marines to be transported there. Went around the
Caribean—West Indies &amp; other places to show the U.S. was there to help and not solely a
war monger.
 Don worked on shore helping to build infrastructure
 He was always excited to get back home and see his family
Disc Two (1:51:40)
(01:06:31) Attack Transport Ships
 Don served on 3 different ships while in the Navy
 Each ship carried up to 1,000 Marines and cargo; the ship maintained a fleet that was
ready to go to war at any time
(01:09:03) The Bay of Pigs
 They were on a ship and moved up along the Cuban coast while the US was trying to
overthrow Castro
 Don had been working on the USS Rockbridge and was then transferred on to the
Fremont for 5 years (1:09:58)
(01:13:15) Europe

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Don headed to Europe on the Fremont
They traveled through the Mediterranean and he went on many tours of Europe
Don traveled to Italy, Spain, France, the Dutch West Indies, and Africa (1:14:25)
He got involved in boxing matches while on the Fremont
Don got into 21 fights and only lost 1 to a Marine
He also worked on the USS Monrovia, which was the smallest attack transport ship
(01:19:15)

(01:22:53) Italy
 The Italians had once been nice to the US because of the help received during and after
World War Two
 Yet when men from the Navy went there on leave, they were attacked by Italians and
there were also many Russians there influencing them
(01:27:09) Back to the US
 Don had 10 days on leave to spend with his family and then he had to go back to working
on the ship
 His wife was always very sad when he had to leave again
 They always left for the Caribbean or Europe to make sure that the areas were always
ready for war (1:27:31)
 (01:28:54) His admiral diverted his squadron and steamed back to the Mediterranean to
replace another squadron.. Tried to come to the aid of the Puebla’s crew however
circumstances prevented them from rescuing them from torture. As a result of this
instance, many officers lost their commands.
 (01:32:01) The Cuban Missile Crisis
o
 Don was on board the Command ship for 7 days
 They prevented a Russian sub from entering Cuban waters
 Castro had cut off the power and water supply to Guantanamo Bay
 The Navy Seabees went in to build a water distilling plant and a power plant
(01:32:14) The USS Intrepid
 Don was working on safety operations on the ship while plains were landing on the
carrier
 There were many accidents that happened during peace-time
(01:35:00) Assassination of JFK
 Don had been on board a ship headed to Europe when he heard the news
 Every US military installation in the world was on red alert because they thought the
Russians had killed the president
(01:36:16) Shore Duty in Meridian, Mississippi
 Don had to escort someone from the ship that was court marshaled for grand larceny
(01:37:41)
 His whole family went with him to Mississippi

�
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There was a very large air station and Don was put in an office working with a disaster
control team (01:39:23)
He was in charge of restructuring the entire program from 1400 to 1600 employees
because a lot of positions were repetitive
Don was then working with the military police and the state police in a variety of
capacities. (01:41:19)

(01:43:22) Training for Vietnam
 Don volunteered to be part of a Naval Advisory Group
 It was an elite group that went through difficult training called Sierra training for
survival, resistance, and escape (1:44:30)
 1/3 of the men could not make it through the training
 They went through the types of torture that was used on POWs in Vietnam
 It was very rough and his jaw almost broke (1:49:25)
 The training was to see who would be able to survive if captured
 They had to eat blind-folded; it was like they were in a concentration camp
Disk 3 (00:40:25)
(00:05:04) Vietnam
The First Day in Vietnam
 The plane landed at an air base and they were already under attack when getting off the
plane
 The advisors were shown maps of areas of the country and told where not to go
Don worked in the Southern tip blocking supplies and transportation
 Don was ordered to stop transportation of supplies through the water ways
 He worked with many Vietnamese on this project and was always worried that some of
them would turn on him
 He took language classes to learn the dialect, but also worked with interpreters
(00:07:06)
 Fire-fights occurred along rivers often and unexpectedly
(00:09:55) Fire Fights
 There were many times when they had to beach their boats and chase the enemy into the
jungle
 They sometimes ran into farming areas, but usually the enemy would hide in
underground tunnels and they would throw grenades in them
(00:17:18) Water Taxis
 Transportation along rivers was often stopped and searched
 He once had to interrogate some people and had to shoot a young pregnant woman
because he thought she was reaching for a weapon. (00:18:34)
 They found two grenades strapped to her legs
 He cut open her stomach and delivered the baby, whom he gave to a local villager

�(00:22:41) The Base is Attacked
 Don was near the water when their base was attacked by heavy fire
 There were many men around him that were shot and died
 It was hard working with the Vietnamese because they were always changing sides
 Don got a 15-caliber machine gun and killed everyone swimming away in the water

(00:26:58) Ambush
 Don was going to prepare an ambush, but did not have enough men
 He got some help from the Army, but one of the men was high
 Don told his sergeant that they could not work with the man, but the sergeant did not do
anything
 The man on drugs kept following them around trying to go on the operation with them
 Don told the man that he could not go and the man pointed an M-16 in Don’s face
 Don pulled out his 45 and shot the man in the leg, shattering his femur bone
(00:30:12) Army SOS in the Forest
 The Army called for help and because it was under heavy attack
 They took a boat upriver to assist and the Vietnamese did not hear or see them coming
 Some of the boats had twin engines and could go up to 70 mph
 They ran their boats alongside the Army boats and attacked the Vietnamese, surprising
them while the others escaped
 They got about 60 bullet holes in their boat and one of his gunners was wounded
(00:37:11) The New Doctor
 They had been under attack and the new doctor was not properly trained
 Seeing all the bodies devastated him
 Don had to help the doctor work with all the bodies from the attack
(00:40:25) Shows Items obtained from Vietnam
Disc Four (1:28:40)
(00:40:58) Operations in Thailand and Laos
 Don was hand-picked for a special operation in the area
 He was presented with a jade cigarette case in 1972 for being an instructor of guerilla war
tactics from the Royal Navy Force
 He also received gifts from the Laotian government for his help
(00:43:00) Another Attack in Vietnam
 A little Vietnamese boy had lost a leg in an attack
 The bleeding would not stop, so Don put gun powder on the wound and cauterized it
 Don was older than most of the men he worked with and was viewed as a father figure
(00:48:25) A Call from Saigon
 Don thought he was being sent home, but he was asked to take part in a special operation

�



He worked with 6 other Naval Advisors
They were all brought into a room full of maps and pictures and told to memorize
everything
They were sent to Thailand and Laos when the war had started slowing down

(00:50:11) Bangkok
 Don met the other Naval Advisors in Bangkok
 They needed to help build a Navy for Laos because they had no protection along their
coast
 Don worked secretly at night and bought many things off the black market
 They worked with the elite from the Laotian Army
 This area was much less dangerous than in Vietnam and he could actually sleep at night
(1:01:03) The Trip to Vietnam
 Don had to leave half way through his mission in Laos and go back to Vietnam
 A mortar round had come in and hit a wood structure near him and he was wounded
 He now has 4 pins in his lower spine from his injuries and he had broken both his wrists
 Don has braces on both his legs and has extensive nerve and muscle damage
(1:05:01) Back to the US
 After the war veterans were treated bad; they were spit on, yelled at, and beaten
 Don spent about 2 years in military hospitals for therapy on his spine and legs (1:08:50)
 In 1974 Don moved to Michigan, but there were no jobs
 Don said that fathers were competing with their sons for jobs pumping gas
 He began working for a brass polishing shop
 Don was denied retirement and pushed out of the Navy on medical leave 6 months before
he was supposed to retire
(01:15:20) The Post Office
 Don got a job at the Post Office and for the first couple of years there, many people
would not associate with him because they thought he was a crazy veteran
 They all got along better after a few years
(01:17:03) Retirement
 Don got associated with the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans and Military Order of the
Purple Heart
 In February of 2005 he retired to spend more time at the Veterans Home
 Don speaks in a lot of schools about Vietnam and Veterans affairs
 Don has 4 children and 10 grandchildren

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Name of Interviewee: Donald M. Kramer
Name of War: Vietnam War
2 of 2
Interview Length Disc #3: (00:40:35)
Interview Length Disc #4: (01:28:40)
Disk 3 (00:40:25)
(00:05:04) Vietnam
The First Day in Vietnam
 The plane landed at an air base and they were already under attack when getting off the
plane
 The advisors were shown maps of areas of the country and told where not to go
Don worked in the Southern tip blocking supplies and transportation
 Don was ordered to stop transportation of supplies through the water ways
 He worked with many Vietnamese on this project and was always worried that some of
them would turn on him
 He took language classes to learn the dialect, but also worked with interpreters
(00:07:06)
 Fire-fights occurred along rivers often and unexpectedly
(00:09:55) Fire Fights
 There were many times when they had to beach their boats and chase the enemy into the
jungle
 They sometimes ran into farming areas, but usually the enemy would hide in
underground tunnels and they would throw grenades in them
(00:17:18) Water Taxis
 Transportation along rivers was often stopped and searched
 He once had to interrogate some people and had to shoot a young pregnant woman
because he thought she was reaching for a weapon. (00:18:34)
 They found two grenades strapped to her legs
 He cut open her stomach and delivered the baby, whom he gave to a local villager
(00:22:41) The Base is Attacked
 Don was near the water when their base was attacked by heavy fire
 There were many men around him that were shot and died
 It was hard working with the Vietnamese because they were always changing sides
 Don got a 15-caliber machine gun and killed everyone swimming away in the water

(00:26:58) Ambush

�






Don was going to prepare an ambush, but did not have enough men
He got some help from the Army, but one of the men was high
Don told his sergeant that they could not work with the man, but the sergeant did not do
anything
The man on drugs kept following them around trying to go on the operation with them
Don told the man that he could not go and the man pointed an M-16 in Don’s face
Don pulled out his 45 and shot the man in the leg, shattering his femur bone

(00:30:12) Army SOS in the Forest
 The Army called for help and because it was under heavy attack
 They took a boat upriver to assist and the Vietnamese did not hear or see them coming
 Some of the boats had twin engines and could go up to 70 mph
 They ran their boats alongside the Army boats and attacked the Vietnamese, surprising
them while the others escaped
 They got about 60 bullet holes in their boat and one of his gunners was wounded
(00:37:11) The New Doctor
 They had been under attack and the new doctor was not properly trained
 Seeing all the bodies devastated him
 Don had to help the doctor work with all the bodies from the attack
(00:40:25) Shows Items obtained from Vietnam
Disc Four (1:28:40)
(00:40:58) Operations in Thailand and Laos
 Don was hand-picked for a special operation in the area
 He was presented with a jade cigarette case in 1972 for being an instructor of guerilla war
tactics from the Royal Navy Force
 He also received gifts from the Laotian government for his help
(00:43:00) Another Attack in Vietnam
 A little Vietnamese boy had lost a leg in an attack
 The bleeding would not stop, so Don put gun powder on the wound and cauterized it
 Don was older than most of the men he worked with and was viewed as a father figure
(00:48:25) A Call from Saigon
 Don thought he was being sent home, but he was asked to take part in a special operation
 He worked with 6 other Naval Advisors
 They were all brought into a room full of maps and pictures and told to memorize
everything
 They were sent to Thailand and Laos when the war had started slowing down
(00:50:11) Bangkok
 Don met the other Naval Advisors in Bangkok

�




They needed to help build a Navy for Laos because they had no protection along their
coast
Don worked secretly at night and bought many things off the black market
They worked with the elite from the Laotian Army
This area was much less dangerous than in Vietnam and he could actually sleep at night

(1:01:03) The Trip to Vietnam
 Don had to leave half way through his mission in Laos and go back to Vietnam
 A mortar round had come in and hit a wood structure near him and he was wounded
 He now has 4 pins in his lower spine from his injuries and he had broken both his wrists
 Don has braces on both his legs and has extensive nerve and muscle damage
(1:05:01) Back to the US
 After the war veterans were treated bad; they were spit on, yelled at, and beaten
 Don spent about 2 years in military hospitals for therapy on his spine and legs (1:08:50)
 In 1974 Don moved to Michigan, but there were no jobs
 Don said that fathers were competing with their sons for jobs pumping gas
 He began working for a brass polishing shop
 Don was denied retirement and pushed out of the Navy on medical leave 6 months before
he was supposed to retire
(01:15:20) The Post Office
 Don got a job at the Post Office and for the first couple of years there, many people
would not associate with him because they thought he was a crazy veteran
 They all got along better after a few years
(01:17:03) Retirement
 Don got associated with the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans and Military Order of the
Purple Heart
 In February of 2005 he retired to spend more time at the Veterans Home
 Don speaks in a lot of schools about Vietnam and Veterans affairs
 Don has 4 children and 10 grandchildren

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Don Kramer was born in Gary, Indiana on April 3, 1943.  Don got his GED when he was 17, got married, and also joined the Navy.  Don worked in the Caribbean, Europe, Vietnam, Thailand, and Laos.  Don was involved in many fire fights while in Vietnam and was often under heavy attack.  After being badly wounded in a mortar attack in 1972, Don was discharged from the Navy 6 months short of retirement and spent 2 years in military hospitals receiving physical therapy.  He retired from his job in 2005 and now spends most of his time at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
WWII
Louis Kramer
Length of interview (1:00:07)

Pre-Enlistment
• Kramer was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in December 1925. (00:09)
• He attended Grand Rapids Public Schools until 9th grade then moved to Cedar
Springs, Michigan where he finished high school. (00:30)
• His father worked for a furniture maker as a shipping clerk. (00:44)
• His family lived o a farm in Cedar Springs, Michigan so they could subsistence
farm.
• Mr. Kramer heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor while he was at school. (1:30)
• He remarked about his expectations and exposure to media during the war. (2:00)
• June 1st 1944 he graduated high school. (2:40)
• June 2nd he is assigned to the United States Army. (3:55)
Enlistment
• Kramer was assigned to Fort Sheridan, Illinois for induction. (4:30)
• From induction he proceeded to Camp Blanding, Florida for Basic Training.
(4:35) His cousin trained at Camp Blanding as well. (5:00) He also worked at the
message center on post. (5:30)
• From June through August he was part of a rifle company. (5:50)
• He received training for messaging and then was transferred to a new group.
(6:20) Further, he comments on receiving basic weapons training at this post.
(7:05)
1st Duty Station
• In October 1944 Kramer is 18 years old and is sent to Camp Gruber, Oklahoma
where he joins the 22nd Infantry Regiment, 42nd “Rainbow” Division; he serves at
this location for 3 weeks. (7:52)
• Comments that the Rainbow Division was named by General MacArthur. (9:00)
• Learns that his rifle company is being shipped overseas, and he will not be
serving as a support unit. (9:25)
• He is transferred to Camp Kilmer New Jersey where he boards the USS
Alexander. (10:12)
2nd Duty Station/Overseas Transport
• The USS Alexander joins a convoy with liberty ships destined for France. (10:40)
• He discusses the ship and the food on board. (11:04)
• Comments on the Thanksgiving meal. (11:35) He mentions the preponderance of
seasickness and the overall good weather. (11:55)
• He recalls the accommodations on the ship. (12:55) Additionally, he speaks of the
men on board. (14:05) His journey on the ship took 15 days. (14:40)
3rd Duty Station

�•

Kramer lands at Marseilles, France. He describes the condition of the city as he
arrives. (15:00)
• In December, Kramer was transferred to CP2, where he camped in tents. (16:00)
On the 15th or 16th of December he was transferred to a new location on boxcars.
(16:30)
• Talks of the Maginot Line and Strasbourg, France, where he spends Christmas.
(17:11) He describes the pillboxes on the Maginot Line. (17:30)
• He joins the 7th Army and is assigned to a unit called Task Force Linden. (18:00)
He further discusses the movement and replacements of other divisions. (19:00)
• He recounts arriving to the front on the 15th of December as the Battle of the
Bulge is happening. (19:48) They are moved at night. (20:15) He guarded an
electric generating station. (20:41) He discusses combat. (20:56) He mentions
spending New Years guarding General Linden’s headquarters. (21:13)
4th Duty Station
• Kramer speaks of the conditions in Strausberg, Germany including field hospitals.
(21:48) He also mentions the civilian population. (22:27)
• He discusses Operation Nordwind on the 4th and 5th of January. (22:57)
5th Duty Station
• On January 21st, the line was pulled back and he volunteered to stay behind; he
had just turned 19 years old. (23:26) He rode a truck to company B’s area and
recovered his field packs. (24:50) He arrives beyond at prominent river. (25:28)
• On the 24th of January the Germans attack Neuburg and at Schwetzingen (?).
(25:51) The Germans get through the American lines. (26:30)
• He stays in a barn while on march. (27:13) He described combat in the woods at
night. (27:44) He ‘hits the ground’ in the snow. (28:50) 3 German machine guns
fire. (29:30) He described casualties and yelling (30:00) he started shooting and
his gun malfunctioned (30:41) Mortar artillery is missing its target and he yells
for them to change their position (31:44)
• Germans are yelling, “comrade,” and George Jackson kills the German machine
gunners. (32:54)
• Kramer returns to town. (33:55) Losses from combat are counted. (34:15) Many
Germans try to surrender during the fire fight. (35:00) Dead German soldiers are
carried out of the field. (35:40) By January 25th there are 237 casualties. (36:45)
Kramer’s unit receives a citation. (37:05)
6th Duty Station
• He is taken off the line and is waiting for the rest of the division. (36:47) While
waiting he receives more training. (37:05)
• On the 14th of March, a ‘push’ is ordered. (37:20) Company B is sent to the front
on March 15th. (37:50) Kramer says Dean Finley is shot in the stomach. (38:35)
1st Platoon moves. (39:13)
• He describes his assignment to carry a BAR. (39:40) He discusses his field gear.
(40:36) Kramer is shot and BAR stops all but one bullet. (41:03) He mentions his
attempts at first aid with his knife. (41:50) The north side of the hill is attacked.
(42:35)

�•

Kramer talks about his experience at the aid station. (42:56) While at the aid
station he recalls yelling at General Linden without knowing who he was. (43:20)
Mr. Kramer talks about German POWs carrying him out of the aid station.
(44:05) He remembers meeting a German who lived in Chicago, Illinois for 5
years. (45:00) He talks about an ambulance ride. (45:26)
th
7 Duty Station
• He moved to the 11th Field Hospital (MASH). (45:38) He had a surgery. (46:20)
He received a new kind of procedure and talks about a chaplain. (47:48) He talks
about his recovery and his wounds reopening. (49:37) His wounds became
infected and required further treatment. (50:34) Kramer mentions being moved to
the 36th General Hospital in Dijon, France. (51:40) He remained at the 11th
General Hospital from the 25th of April until the 15th of March. (52:00)
8th Duty Station
• He is moved to Paris, France by C-47 and remains at an evacuation hospital for 3
days. (52:09) He discusses his route back to the United States in a C-54. (53:00)
He describes being at the Schick General Veterans Hospital for 2 to 3 weeks.
(53:29)
th
9 Duty Station
• He is transferred to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, Michigan until October. (54:00)
th
10 Duty Station
• Mr. Kramer was transferred to San Antonio, Texas. (54:20)
• He describes his duties on base and his search for a new assignment. (54:30) He
mentions his job at a bowling alley as a pin setter. (55:51) He is sent to Brook
General Hospital in April. (56:14) He is assigned to the section 8 ward. (56:50)
He is sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois where he is discharged. (57:26)
Post-Enlistment
• He described using the G.I. Bill to attend Western Michigan University to study
United States history and science. (57:50) He retired at age 65. (58:30)
• He discusses the effects of his time in the service. (58:55) He explained that his
experience caused him to become an adult over night with many responsibilities.
(59:26) He was married in 1949 and had children. (59:32)

�</text>
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                <text>Louis Kramer served in the 42nd Infantry Division in the US Army during World War II.  His unit was shipped to France late in 1944, and joined the 7th Army in Alsace.  Kramer's unit fought near Strasbourg during the Battle of the Bulge and Operation Nordwind, and participated in the counterattacks that followed and in the campaign into Germany.  Kramer was wounded in March 1945, and out of action for the rest of the war.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Vietnam Era
Richard Kranenberg
(16:11)
Background Information (00:23)







Born on January 6th 1944 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (00:25)
He has a brother and two sisters. (00:45)
He was the first in his family to serve in the military. (00:50)
Richard enlisted in the military because he was soon to be drafted. He picked the Navy as his
branch of service. (1:33)
Richard served in ROTC in high school and did not like marching. Because of this, he was pushed
toward the Navy. (2:30)
He enlisted on August 27th 1962. (2:55)

Miitary life (3:30)





Life was very structured and had a high emphasis on discipline. (4:00)
The food came as a shock to Richard. The men ate oatmeal and tomato sandwiches in the Navy.
(4:27)
The Navy placed a lot of emphasis on being clean and well organized. This was to prepare men
for ship life. (5:20)
The men did their laundry by hand. (6:22)

Overview of Service (7:15)









When he left Basic at Great Lakes Naval Base, he was sent to Patuxent River, Maryland where he
managed supplies. (7:15)
Richard was reassigned to San Francisco. From there he served 1 year on the USS Midway (an
aircraft carrier). (8:12)
During their first cruise, the men sailed toward Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam. (8:46)]
Richard Served on the first task force in Vietnam. (9:20)
The Midway was decommissioned. He was then placed on the USS Enterprise. (9:33)
There was one radio station, one television station, and poor beds aboard the USS Midway. The
USS Enterprise was much nicer and had air-conditioning. (10:11)
Richard wrote lots of letters while in the service. (10:55)
The amount of parting that the men had to do while in the service made it hard to hold close
friends. (11:47)

Thoughts on Service (12:16)





He did not have a difficult time in the service because he never saw combat. (12:22)
His service was extended for several months. He returned home in September of 1966. (13:07)
Adjusting back to home life was fairly simple. (14:08)
The military was a great positive impact on Richard’s life. (14:40)

�

His family was proud that he had served. (15:50)

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                <text>Richard Kranenberg, born on January 6th 1944 in Grand Rapids Michigan, served in the U.S. Navy as a supply man between 1962 and 1966. Richard served in ROTC in high school which prepared him for service. Throughout the course of his service, Richard served aboard the USS Midway as well as the USS Enterprise.</text>
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                <text>Nitzche, Nicole (Interviewer)</text>
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                <text> Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455"&gt;Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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                    <text>Robert Kriegbaum 
World War II 
U.S. Army 
(2:10:09) 
Interviewer:  James Smither 
 
(00:10)Background 
• Born in Richmond Indiana December 4 1922 
• Graduated from Richmond High School June 1941 
• Father was an Engineer with the International Harvester Company‐kept job during depression‐
worked with farmers‐moved to Chicago 1944 when plant closed up‐experimental engineer 
testing out new farm equipment out on the field 
• 3 sisters 
(02:45) 
• Enrolled in Purdue University‐initial training in the ROTC‐field artillery 
• December 7 1941‐at fraternity when he heard about Pearl Harbor 
(04:10) 
• Drafted Fall of 1942‐told to report Feb 1943‐mother tried to exempt Robert for being asthmatic‐
Robert said he didn’t want to do that‐went in 
• Most of friends had enlisted‐many into the Air Force 
• Belonged at time to the Quaker Church‐joined Westminster Church with mother 
 
(07:20)Fort Benjamin Harrison‐Indianapolis Indiana 
• 1 week of physicals and paper work 
 
(07:45)Fort Sill Oklahoma 
• Artillery training 
• (8:05)Vacations taken before the war were by car.  One to California and one to New York. 
• (9:15)First Train Trip was from Richmond to Fort Sill 
• George was 5’6” 140lbs at the time 
• Tough Sergeants 
• Robert says he did well in training 
• Learned about guns, surveying, observation‐all about artillery training 
• (11:42) Most of the other guys were not college educated but well educated men 
• 13 weeks of basic training 
• Graduated May 1943‐guys were split up around the world 
 
**Robert was shipped around to half of a dozen replacement depots of east side of the United 
States from May to August 1943. Among the depots were Camp Miles Standish, Maine, Camp 
Shenango Pennsylvania, and Patrick Henry, Virginia 
 

�(14:20)left Patrick Henry‐shipped out to North Africa 
• Robert said they didn’t know where they were going 
• 23 days a part of a convoy going from Virginia to Oran, Algeria 
• Crossed Straits of Gibraltar‐Robert finally knew where he was going 
• Submarine scares kept them on deck only at night 
 
(16:18)Oran  
• Cold and raining often‐war in Africa was over as far as U.S. was concerned 
• Barrack Bags were heavy‐received gas masks here 
• There about 1 month‐shipped out to Naples Italy 
 
(19:00)Naples Italy 
• Port had been bombed 
• Replacement Depot was in an extinct volcano 
• Jumped out of fox hole during an air raid and landed on a guy from Richmond Indiana 
• Trucks came and brought their unit to the front‐34th infantry division 
• (20:53)Robert was part of the175th Field artillery  battalion, C Battery‐ inside of the 34th infantry 
• Forward observer was his position‐3 groups with 3 guys in each group 
• He was to find where on the map the enemy was going to land and communicate that by smoke 
shell where they were going to land. 
• (23:00) Robert’s asthma kicks in‐informs field commander‐switches places with another 
replacement 
• (24:24)crossings of Volturno River Italy‐close to winter 1943‐168th regiment 
 
(25:55)2nd observing job‐ 
• Approaching Mount Pantano‐tough fighting for the men there‐ 
• Struggle to the front line where their were frequent attacks by the Germans‐ 
• Protected by the mountains and grape plantations‐ 
• Built rocks up‐couldn’t dig fox holes(no dirt)‐ 
• (29:20)Spent 2‐3 days on mountain before retreat 
• Went back up‐gained control‐mortar, machine gun fire, rock throwing, and grenades were being 
used 
• December 4 1943‐Robert’s 21st birthday‐he remembers saying ‘I made it’ 
• (31:00) Germans were literally stone throws away‐slow going‐moving toward Cassino 
• 2 ½ months before relief came 
• (33:08) Trenchfoot became big issue‐people were getting sick‐Dysentery 
• Christmas dinner‐hot turkey meal‐Germans fired on them‐Robert’s dinner was ruined 
• Pulled out before reaching Cassino 
• OD’s hadn’t arrived yet for winter 
• Given 3 week rest 

� 
(37:20)Cassino‐January 1944 
• Built pup tents to keep warm‐2 men to each tent 
• Put charcoal in tin food cans lit them on fire‐wind would blow heat into tent‐woke up with tent 
on fire 
• Payday‐came down mountain to get paid‐stayed in commander’s truck till clothes and 
equipment could be replaced 
• Battle at Cassino‐Germans flooded valley and laid mine fields 
• Men had to walk through mine field for 1500 feet before making it‐lost a few guys going through 
• (43:45)Artillery stayed behind unit but with the men 
• City of Cassino‐destroyed‐stayed inside of a house‐heavy artillery fighting‐didn’t go outdoors 
• Hygiene wasn’t the best‐peed in corners wherever they were 
• Used bathroom on the side of path‐mother and daughter walked by 
• (46:31)Many divisions at Cassino‐tried to advance toward Rome‐couldn’t get there 
• Mount Tocchio‐used as Germans observation point before abandoning them because Allies 
were advancing on them 
 
(48:30) Mont Cassino Abbey 
• Germans were using the base as an observation point on the Allied forces 
• February 15 1944‐B24 bombed the Abbey‐reduced it to ruins 
• Robert says there was controversy over whether we should have bombed the Abbey because it 
was sacred ground to the Monks 
• (51:05) Robert’s division went off line back to rest area the following day 
 
 
*Robert was sent to the hospital for dysentery in Naples Italy.  Meanwhile his division moved 
 
out. 
 
(52:10)Boarded LST truck from Naples to Anzio 
• Robert landed on shore and was assigned to the Instrument Survey Crew‐by his request 
• Survey crew consisted of a 7 man crew, Jeep, 4‐ton trailer for supplies 
• Would head out on a reconnaissance mission with the Captain, 105mm Howitzers, would survey 
guns back to a base point, then to another base point to continuously keep track on a map 
where their location was 
• (55:45)Germans had chased them back a few times‐in front of men a ways 
• Came across cross road‐military police‐trucks were empty‐men were in ditches‐Germans were 
firing on the cross road 
 
(57:40)Anzio 
• Settled in and dug their fox holes‐got as comfortable as they could 
• It was springtime by the time they arrived 
• They didn’t dare to move during the day‐Axis army was in the mountains above them 

�•
•
•

Played cards and read during the day 
Robert was with the 125th artillery battalion 
They set up camp in abandoned farm houses 

 
(100:55)North Africa (does a flashback of sorts on previous experiences of 34th Division) 
• 34th infantry division 
• Took a 40 and 8 across North Africa thru mountains to Bizerte 
• 40 and 9 was a term used in WWI where they had a boxcar with 40 men and 8 horses 
• Roberts division had over 40 guys and no horses 
• 500 miles and 5 days to cross North Africa 
• (1:02:00)34th infantry was a group of guys from the National Guard federalized into one unit 
• 1st outfit sent to Europe in January 1942 after war was declared‐Landed in Ireland 
• Parts developed into the First Rangers‐job was to sabotage the Germans 
• Selected to invade North Africa 
• Landed at Oran, Algiers, and Casablanca 
• Fought French Vichy upon landing for a short time‐remained in Allie hands 
• Moved eastward towards Tunis 
• Met African Corp Rommel in Tunisia‐first combat for the 34th division 
• (104:39)They were defeated at Fondouk Pass and Kasserine Pass 
 
(106:10) Back at Anzio 
• Dug hole outside of barn through the floor and into the barn to provide an easy exit incase they 
were cornered into the barn.  Built up sand bags on the outside of the hole. 
• Slept in the barn or the house on the floor and listened to music on a radio 
• Could hear ‘Big Bertha’ shells every night going off toward the beach front toward Ally ships 
• June 1‐Cassino had fallen‐ they decided it was time to move on 
• (1:11:10)General Clark wanted to conquer Rome‐received orders to conquer Germans leaving 
Cassino instead‐Clark disobeyed orders and went into Rome 
 
(1:12:20)Arrived at Rome 
• June 4th or 5th‐Open city‐little damage 
• 34th division not allowed to stop in Rome to celebrate‐had to keep Germans on the run 
• Continued North West to Tyrrhenian Sea 
• Stopped at Santa Marinella for the night 
• (1:14:15)Robert receives Dear John letter 
• Chased Germans up the west coast of Italy‐Pigeon Run 
• Went thru Civitavecchia, Lake Horn, and Pisa where they met the 91st division 
 
(1:15:50)Assigned to Florence Italy 
• Boarded boat on the Arno River  to Florence 

�•
•
•
•
•
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•
•
•
•
•
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Drove Germans north out of Florence on highway 65 and 64 back into the mountains 
Called their Jeeps “Peeps” 
(1:18:40)Take Jeep up the mountain to position‐settle in for the winter 
Overlooking Paloma Italy 
Little fighting during next three months 
Housed in with Italy family in a farm house 
(1:21:00)Christmas‐boiled chestnuts over fire 
(1:22:00)Brother‐in‐law‐ensign in the navy‐visits Robert while in Italy 
(1:24:30)Drove up hill to observation point with brother‐in‐law‐destroyed Church 
(1:25:20)Spring came‐Invasion of France had started 
Mountain‐northern Apennines‐into Bologna and Po Valley 
Partisans and civilians in Bologna waiting to greet them 
Took highway 9 through Po Valley toward Piacenza‐couldn’t cross River due to bridge being out 
(1:28:00)Retreated all the way back thru Odayna(?) then back north across river 
Headed to Milan 

 
(1:29:40)Milan Italy 
• Partisans and civilians wanted to bring the guys to see Mussolini hanging from his feet 
• Chased Germans out‐they were heading toward Switzerland and Austria 
• Chased North to Ifraya? 
 
(1:30:50)Ifraya? (Biella) Italy 
• At the foot of the Alpines 
• War had ended in Italy May 2 1945 
• Settled a huge field where Germans could surrender and set down their guns 
• General called Robert ‘Creekbomb’‐nickname‐told to direct the POW’s into the field and give 
them directions 
• Right at noon from all directions Germans surrendered 
• Threw in P38, German Lugers and Machine Guns 
• Robert took two pistols to home where he was staying and accidently shot one thru the roof 
between two guys sleeping 
• (1:36:40) 2 to 3 weeks later they were still surrendering‐total of 40,000 men surrendered 
• Sent to San Remo‐in the Italian Riviera‐keep peace between Italians and French 
• Villa King‐stayed for two months‐corresponded with a few girls from village even after war was 
over 
• (1:40:00)Letters from Luciana‐girl in Italy 
• Went to Turin‐didn’t know why he was going‐Picked up old lady and daughter carrying olive oil 
• Returned to camp and received orders to go to Udine‐by Trieste 
 
(1:43:30) Udine Italy 

�•
•
•

Kept peace between Italians and Yugoslavians‐both wanted Trieste 
Received first ration of Russian Vodka‐half of canteen cup full‐nobody had vodka before‐all were 
drunk 
Considered an area for ribbon‐Robert hadn’t applied for it yet 

 
(1:45:35)Chicken coop story 
• South of Cassino by river 
• Found chicken coup‐cleaned it out and slept in it to stay out of the rain‐rotated guard duty every 
2 hrs. 
 
(1:49:00)Naples 
• Went by 40 and 8 back to Naples 
• Roberts division chalked up over 600 days of combat time on the front line 
• Robert had 430 days of combat time 
• 19 days to get back to the states 
 
(1:55:15)Back in the states 
• Returned in November‐New Port 
• Nobody there to meet them 
• Sent by train back to their home state 
 
Camp Atterbury Indiana‐mustering out stations 
• First thing he was asked was ‘Would you like to sign here for extra duty?’ Robert said no. 
• Gave Robert $5.10 for train fare back home to Richmond 
• Snuck up on parents at home‐they didn’t know he was coming 
 
(1:57:55)Effects of his time in the service 
• Robert felt that his time in the service made him a better person and that he strives to be a 
good person still to this day 
 
(1:59:40)Richmond Indiana‐back home 
• Took GI Bill and went to Earlham College‐Richmond Indiana‐Quaker school 
• Went back to Purdue for half a semester‐met wife 
• Got married‐went to San Francisco 
• Joined wholesale hardware outfit 
 
(2:02:40) Michigan 
• Opened up a hardware store 
 
 

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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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                    <text>GVSU Veteran’s History Project
Cold War Era
Debra Kridler
Total Time: (40:49)
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(00:48) Has a brother who served in the Gulf War; said they didn’t talk about it a lot
(1:34) She said her family seemed more concerned with her brother than her (she was
in the service but didn’t fight in any wars)
(1:54) The unit that she was with in Frankfurt was in lockdown; their job was to secure
the area
(2:22) Made friends with a few people in her unit
o Became hard to stay in touch after awhile
(2:56) The area she served in was in Southern Bavaria
o Here, they faced bomb threats
o American/German military base
(3:40) Says the relationships she built was a memorable experience, as well as her job
o Ms. Kridler worked in communications
o Went to school in Georgia for telecommunications
o Worked as a radio operator in Germany
o Used a lot of books
o Did practice alerts
(4:41) Her usual schedule was from about 8-5; afterwards they would clean the barracks
sometimes
(5:07) The Germans were in one section of the base and the Americans were on another
(5:48) Mentioned that there weren’t a lot of females in the infantry
(6:03) Guessed there was about 350 on their base
o Maybe 50 Germans
o Germans had to serve at least 1 year in the military
(6:56) M-16’s were their main weapons that they trained on
(9:09) The base that Ms. Kridler was at was near Frankfurt
(10:08) Said there wasn’t a lot of interaction with the Germans
(12:44) Mentioned that German economy was pretty good
(13:09) Had a chance to travel a lot
(14:10) Didn’t see combat, but was ready for it
o Used landmines and hand grenades as well as being able to fire an M-16
(16:04) During training she learned how to send messages through computers
(17:20) Learned how to throw grenades with the drill sergeant

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o Describes process of detonating hand grenades
o They were explosive
o Wore a vest which protected her from shrapnel
(20:45) Mentions that they had earplugs with them when using weapons
(22:33) Says the oldest you could sign up for the service was 36 years old
(23:04) Wore camouflage; before she was in the service, the color for service men and
women was green; there had been a recent switch
(26:22) Discussed drills they had to do at midnight; gave them an idea of what war was
really like
(27:20) German uniforms had an emblem and the German flag colors
(27:48) Says that they had more equipment than the Germans
(29:25) Had a few clashes with her first superior officer; Ms. Kridler was frustrated when
how he ran things
o Liked the second superior officer better
(30:45) Remembers having first lieutenants, but not a captain on the base
(31:35) By the time Ms. Kridler got out of the service, she was a sergeant
o Served two years without leave
o When she came back to Michigan she did another year, then served longer
o Eventually went to the National Guard
o Seven years total in the service
(33:50) Ms. Kridler thinks that if she stayed in the service another year, would have
gotten a higher ranking, but decided not to
(34:12) Also had a sister in the army; brother was in the Marines
(35:11) Said the military helped her learned to be independent
(36:33) Said if she was younger, she would have finished school before joining the
military

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Vietnam War
Dale Krueger
(34:36)
Background Information (00:20)



He was drafted into the Air Force. He served for 4.5 years. (00:22)
He thought that he might be able to fly while in the Air Force. However, due to the rule that the
men had to serve the amount of time they stayed in school during active duty (i.e. 4 years of
school in training meant 4 years of active duty) he joined the Army instead. Dale was engaged at
the time and did not want to serve this long. (00:44)

Training (2:04)


Dale switched to the Army because he did not like the way the Air Force was regimented. (2:00)

Service in Vietnam. (3:11)







In 1971 Dale was sent to Vietnam. He did not want to leave his life at home when he left. (3:12)
Dale was able to keep in contact with his family and wife through mail. Writing every day
however, was difficult. (4:15)
Dale did experience some action but did not think that he saw the worst of what the war had to
offer. (5:36)
He believes that dealing with the emotional trauma of the even gets harder with age. (6:18)
Dale did form a lot of close relationships with the men he served with. (7:11)
Dale had exited the service already when the war ended in 1975. (8:41)

End of Service (9:12)




Dale was flown home from Vietnam. He thought the process required to get him home was a
“nightmare.” (9:15)
He was thrown to San Francisco and then to Chicago. (9:58)
The decay of how men in uniform were treated during dales time in the military was very
insulting. Middle to older aged civilians treated dale better then the younger ones. (11:05)

Life after Service (12:54)





Dale didn’t have much direction in his life. However he felt that the duty to serve was always a
guiding influence. (13:36)
Dale served in Iraq in 2005. He worked at a road side check point by the 14th of July Bridge
during an election. (15:25)
He was thanked by Iraqi civilians for the voting process that the military had made possible in
that area. (17:00)
From Dale’s experience, the Iraqis liked the U.S. during his time there. (18:30)

�Thoughts on the War in Iraq (20:03)








He thinks that it is unjust to gauge what has been done in Iraq with the condition it has fallen
into in the late 2000s. (20:03)
For most of Dale’s service he was not fighting Iraqis. He recalled while driving on a road there
were billboards put up by Iraqi citizens warning solders of IEDs. (22:25)
He does believe that there were mistakes made during the U.S. presence in Iraq. (24:55)
He believes that there had been fewer deaths in Iraq during the U.S. presence as opposed to
when Saddam was in power. (26:20)
Dale served in Panama as well. He recalls that some men did not want the military there. But
when he was interacting with the common man and farmers they were please the U.S. was
there. (27:50)
He believes that patriotism is the main uniting factor that should unite the Iraqi people. (29:00)
He agrees that the war could have been handled better. (33:35)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Joseph Krzeminksi

Total Time – (01:24:41)

Background &amp; Civilian Conservation Corps

•
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•
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He was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1919 (00:16)
His parents moved to Grand Rapids from Chicago, Illinois and were originally
from Poland (00:41)
His father was a brick mason
His family moved to a home with an indoor toilet as his father became
increasingly successful (01:30)
o The home was in the city
 They had rabbits, chickens and other animals
When he was eight years old, he would go and pull beans for a local farmer
(02:32)
There were seven kids in his family
When the Depression came, his family lost their home (02:59)
o His mother had a breakdown and died
o His father was extremely depressed
After that, his family bounced between different homes and lived on soup (03:27)
o When they moved around, they found dumps that they would live in
He went to school until the tenth grade (04:12)
He joined the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) April of 1936 (04:31)
Before he was accepted, he had difficulty meeting the minimum weight
requirement of 107lbs. – he weighed 102lbs. (04:48)
o He worked to plant trees
o The CCC mimicked the Army – There were barracks with a similar social
structure (06:15)
 There were some Army officers in charge
o They ate extremely well – the cooks were World War I veterans (06:48)
The CCC broke up and the camp was split and he was sent to Fife Lake near
Traverse City, Michigan (07:43)
o He was discharged and ended up weighing 138lbs.
After he left the CCC, he began working in a factory (08:30)
o He was laid off from the factory job

�•
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He then got a job working in the kitchen at St. Mary’s Hospital in Grand
Rapids(09:14)
They started taking men for the CCC again
He went into the program and was sent to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan
(09:32)
o He was in Newberry, Michigan
In Newberry, he began working in the gravel pit until he was sent to work on the
Fox River where he built a shack (10:35)
He was then sent to be a surveyor on the lakes
o He would work alongside rangers (12:13)
He finished the CCC in June of 1940 and then joined the Army

Enlistment/Training – (13:22)
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•

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He signed up because he was disgusted with the times – the job situation, etc.
(13:27)
When he was in the CCC, he heard the news of Poland being hit by the Germans
When he enlisted, he knew that it was possible that he would be in the war
(14:48)
After he signed up, he was taken to Detroit at Fort Wayne where he was
processed
He then went to Monterey, California (15:37)
o He stayed at Presidio of Monterey (16:13)
o He received two weeks of training
 It was called recruit training (17:06)
o He had a lot of training from CCC that was useful
He stayed in Monterey for roughly one month (18:35)
The military was good because it provided all of the necessities – food, clothing,
housing, no bills, etc. (19:31)
He was transferred to Fort Ord, California (19:58)
When he was at Fort Ord, he was in the 7th Division with the 32nd Infantry
Regiment (20:52)
o There were inspections every Saturday followed by a parade
o There were a lot of new recruits going into the camp (21:28)
o The draftees started going into the camp around November
He got shipped to Oregon in February of 1941 (22:05)
o He was stationed at Camp Clatsop, Oregon (22:10)
o Two battalions were being formed to go to Guam
 They were formed from the 6th and 7th Divisions (22:34)
At this point, he was a PFC (Private First Class)
o It was difficult to get promoted in the military (24:28)
 There were many older military personnel
When the soldiers had time off they would go and be “rowdy”

�•

When he was in Oregon the soldiers slept in tents

Active Duty – Part I - (26:49)
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He was sent to the Aleutian Islands in July of 1941 (26:58)
o They received supplies every two weeks
o They were sent to the Aleutian Islands on a transport ship (27:35)
The voyage to the Aleutians was difficult for many
o They were very seasick (27:54)
o He had received some training at Fort Ord on how to deal with seasickness
In the Aleutians, they were sent to Dutch Harbor, Alaska (29:08)
o They were surprised to see the new barracks for the soldiers (29:15)
o There were only men at the harbor – he only saw one woman
o He spent 32 months in the Aleutian Islands (29:56)
Before Pearl Harbor, his platoon was doing patrols
o There were four men on each patrol (30:31)
o They would go out and survey the beaches to see if there were any that an
enemy could use to their advantage (30:57)
He heard about Pearl Harbor when he was on outpost at Morris Cove, Alaska
(33:52)
o He then went with a friend to Ugadaga Bay where they replaced two men
(34:11)
o When they were leaving, a note was delivered to his lieutenant that told
them Pearl Harbor had been bombed
o It became a miserable night
Patrols were then sent out all over to ensure an attack would not happen (35:52)
There was a fire in their tent so they could keep warm
o They heard a shot that was fired to signal to a ship that could not
communicate (37:03)
The winter was extremely difficult
o The infantry was always out patrolling or on outpost (38:04)
o There were no toilets or showers
o It was not extremely cold (38:30)
o It was extremely windy (38:43)
o There was one man that was killed while walking on the beach from a
piece of tin that flew off a building (39:28)
The soldiers were informed of what was going on, but they did not have specific
details (39:58)
The Japanese attacked Dutch Harbor on May 27, 1942 (40:16)
o The Colonel called his company and told them that there was a Japanese
fleet coming towards them (40:56)
o They were told that they were not going to get any help (41:25)
o His Colonel told them to watch their ammunition
There was only one battalion in Dutch Harbor at the time (42:23)

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They began fortifying the areas – built machine gun nests, set up wires, etc.
(43:16)
The Japanese eventually attacked with aircraft (43:48)
The soldiers moved out of the barracks and moved into large bunkers
o At this point, he was the second commander in charge in the squad
He woke up one night when he heard a growling off in the distance – it was a
seaplane (45:18)
o The plane continued to get louder and louder
o A friend looked out and thought that it was a friendly plane
 As soon as he said that they heard a bomb explode (46:33)
 They grabbed their rifles and got into their positions (46:49)
o He saw four planes coming across and could see the bombs dropping out
of the planes
His squad had BAR’s (Browning Automatic Rifles) (48:14)
o The Americans had mortars and other weapons as well
The Japanese left for the night and came back the next day with dive bombers to
hit what they had missed the day before (48:48)
o They hit fuel storage tanks
o The barracks began to burn (49:15)
 There was a crater right in front of their barracks
o Eleven men died from the attacks (50:43)
After the Japanese attack, they did not come back (51:14)
o They were told that they had landed on Attu and Kiska islands (51:28)
 They also landed on Adak and Atka Island [the Japanese did not,
but the Americans did]
Reinforcements were being pushed past Dutch Harbor
The military began building an air base on Adak Island (52:20)
o The Japanese were surprised that the Americans had built the base
He was told that he was going to board a ship and leave the next day
o They joined a convoy the next day (56:04)
When the convoy arrived on Adak Island, they were picked up from a Navy boat
on the bottom
They stayed in tents while on Adak Island (57:48)
o They would play poker, shoot craps, etc. (57:46)
o They were going to be called when they made a landing
The attacks on Attu Island happened during the middle of 1943 (58:50)

Active Duty – Part II – (59:03)
•

In February of 1944, they boarded the USS Columbia
o There was a dance floor on the ship (59:40)
o They crossed through the Bering Sea and it was extremely rough weather
(59:55)
o He was placed on guard duty one night

�•
•
•
•
•

•
•

•

•
•
•
•
•
•
•

o The ship stopped in Ketchikan, Alaska (01:00:28)
 They were not allowed to get off
After Ketchikan, the ship traveled to a Canadian barracks where they stayed for
one week (01:01:18)
o They stayed in Prince Rupert, Canada
The men were waiting to land on Kiska Island (01:01:37)
o They were not told what they were waiting for, but they knew
When the men were supposed to leave Adak, the replacement privates returned to
their original units (01:02:41)
While in Prince Rupert, the soldiers would pass the time by shooting craps,
playing cards, etc.
o One of the men was caught with a set of phony dice
From Prince Rupert, they were placed on a train and taken to Sumas, Washington
(01:03:46)
o The train went through Vancouver on the way through
o The curtains had to be drawn down on the entire ride
From Sumas, they traveled to southern Oregon at Camp White in Jackson County,
Oregon (01:04:40)
o Camp White was inland – away from the Pacific coast
After Sumas, they were shipped out to different outfits (01:05:14)
o He was sent to Arkansas for more training
o Some of the men were shipped to Europe (01:05:53)
 He was at Camp Robinson near Little Rock, Arkansas (01:06:30)
He was a trainer in basic training
o They started out with seventeen weeks
 They then began rushing through basic training so that men could
get through it in thirteen weeks (01:06:47)
During training, they would go into the field and teach soldiers how to protect
themselves (01:07:14)
o They would often camp out
When new soldiers would come in, they would train them, ship them out and then
receive more new soldiers (01:07:57)
He was satisfied with staying in Arkansas (01:08:54)
o He knew that they were needed
He trained roughly one thousand men in Arkansas (01:09:51)
The rest of his time in the service was spent in Arkansas (01:10:13)
He was taken to the hospital in Chicago, Illinois for his neck and back (01:10:36)
o He went to a sick call and had X-rays taken on his back
 The doctors did not know what was wrong with him (01:11:11)
Before Chicago, when he went on sick call, the doctor told everyone to take their
undershirts off – it was during the winter (01:12:17)
o He was so cold that he did not do it
o When he was called, he walked to the doctor with his shirt on (01:12:56)
 The doctor knocked his helmet down
 The doctor told him to get out of there (01:13:33)

�•
•

o He told his story to the first sergeant and was told to get a prisoner and
watch over him
 He got to sit there while his prisoner worked (01:14:15)
 He had to be with the prisoner all the time
 During lunch, the man did not want to leave and he had to be
forced to leave (01:15:20)
• He threw the man through a door
• His commander saw it happen, but he ignored it
When he saw non-commissioned officers come to the camp, he knew that he was
being replaced (01:16:52)
He remembers walking through the mess hall and vomiting – he was sick in the
stomach (01:17:15)

After the Service – (01:17:30)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

He went home after nearly one week (01:17:31)
He returned to his father's one bedroom apartment
o Two of his brothers lived with his father as well (01:17:43)
His stomach never got better – he is currently on pills for stomach problems
When he returned home, he was unemployed for nearly one month (01:18:47)
After one month, he got a job working at Kelvinator (01:18:56)
o He stayed at Kelvinator for thirty five and a half years
o He did a lot of work as a welder
He was married two times (01:20:13)
o His first wife had a child before they were married
o She found another man at her work and left him (01:20:21)
He married his second wife and was married for forty-seven years
When he reflects on his experiences in the Army, he believes it was a good thing
to join (01:22:10)
He is not sure what way he would have gone if it were not for the Army

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                <text>Joseph Krzeminski was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1919. His family suffered during the Depression, and he left high school and joined the Civilian Conservation Corps in 1936, serving two stints, and then joined the Army in 1940. After training at Fort Ord, California, he joined the 32nd Infantry Regiment, 7th Division, at Camp Clatsop, Oregon. His battalion was sent to the Aleutian Islands in April, 1941, and stayed for three years. He witnessed the Japanese attack on Dutch Harbor in 1942 and helped with preparations for later American landings on Attu and Kiska, and then went to Camp Robinson, Arkansas, to serve as a trainer until he was discharged.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
John Kuennen
Vietnam War
1 hour 47 minutes 21 seconds
(00:00:24) Early Life
-Born on March 1, 1950 in New Hampton, Iowa
-Grew up on a farm near Fort Atkinson, Iowa
-The farm had been in the family for one hundred years
-It is still in the family in his name
-Both of his parents worked on the farm growing up
-He had four brothers
-He was the youngest
-The farm still relied on manual labor even in the 1950s and 1960s
-Had to work a 280 acre farm by hand
-Attended St. Lucas Catholic Schools for eleven years until it closed
-Transferred to a different Catholic high school and graduated from there in 1968
(00:02:36) Awareness of Vietnam
-He was aware of what was happening in Vietnam
-There was a local radio station that would report on Iowans killed in Vietnam
-Hearing about local men getting killed made the war even more real
-Some young men from their community were killed in action
(00:03:23) Attending College &amp; Volunteering for the Draft
-He wanted to go to college
-Attended Loras College in Dubuque, Iowa for one year
-At the time he assumed that he would eventually be drafted
-Went to his local draft board to talk about volunteering for the draft
-He was told that if he volunteered for the draft he could go to Germany
-Decided to volunteer for the draft on the off chance he’d go to Germany
(00:04:37) Basic Training
-He reported for basic training on June 20, 1969 and flew out of Des Moines, Iowa
-Sent to Fort Polk, Louisiana for basic training
-It was somewhat of a culture shock because he had never been out of the Midwest
-Arrived at Fort Polk at 10 PM
-Immediately noticed the distinct smell and heat of Louisiana
-Didn’t have to go through processing since that had been done in Des Moines
-Basic training wasn’t very physically challenging for him
-Because of the heat that summer they had days off and the physical training was relaxed
-It was slightly difficult for him to emotionally and psychologically adjust
-Example: Getting called to formation for inspection, randomly, at 2 AM
-He trained alongside draftees, enlistees, National Guardsmen, and Army Reservists
-The draftees were treated with a little more respect by the drill sergeants
-The vast majority of the men at Fort Polk were draftees
-He received training with the M16 assault rifle

�-Also with the LAW rocket launcher, M60 machine gun and .50 caliber machine gun
-Basic training lasted eight weeks
(00:09:37) Leadership Training
-At the end of basic training he was given the option to go to Officer Candidate School
-Decided not to take that offer, so he was offered Leadership Training
-Decided to accept that instead
-Received Leadership Training at Fort Polk
-Consisted of classroom work on how to be a good leader
-Lasted only two weeks
(00:10:28) Advanced Infantry Training (AIT)
-After Leadership Training he took AIT at Fort Polk to become an 11 Bravo (infantryman)
-His leadership training meant he would be a squad leader during AIT
-He would be in charge of ten other soldiers during the AIT course
-It just so happened he wound up being in charge of ten black soldiers
-There was a slight cultural divide, but there were no major problems
-In AIT he received more detailed weapons training
-Went out in to the field for training
-Marching through swamps
-Living out in the field like he would in Vietnam
-Received some survival training
-Learning how to scavenge for food and survive independently
-There was also training on how to interact with Vietnamese civilians and search villages
-AIT lasted eight weeks
(00:12:40) Deployment to Vietnam
-He was given thirty days of leave to go home
-He had orders for Vietnam, but he didn’t have any orders for a specific unit
-His parents were stoic about his deployment and not openly emotional about it
-He spent time with his girlfriend (who would later become his wife)
-He flew out of Oakland, California to Alaska and then to Japan
(00:15:17) Arrival in Vietnam
-He arrived at Bien Hoa Air Base in South Vietnam on November 29, 1969
-The first thing he noticed about Vietnam was the tremendous heat
-For the first week that he was in Vietnam his body had to adjust to the environment
-He had to deal with an intestinal problem for two days
-Spent most of it just sitting on the toilet
(00:16:20) Assignment to the 1st Infantry Division
-He was assigned to the 1st Battalion of the 2nd Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division
-They were operating about thirty miles north of Saigon, South Vietnam
-After joining them he received a quick refresher course on weapons training
-Firing his M16 rifle on the firing range and throwing grenades
-Heard about training accidents where men died from grenade accidents
(00:19:02) Patrolling with the 1st Infantry Division
-The 1st travelled almost exclusively with trucks, not helicopters
-Drove around the area occasionally stopping to set up an ambush
-Started patrols with them in December 1969
-Stayed at the Michelin Rubber Plantation on Christmas Eve, 1969

�-On Christmas Day they were treated to a huge Christmas feast then had to go into the field
-Remembers being on the plantation and taking sniper fire
-The area had been mostly secured, but the plantation was still in the “free fire zone”
-It meant anyone that was unconfirmed as a friend was a target
-Also meant that after curfew anyone non-American could be shot without question
-Despite being in the “free fire zone” they couldn’t discharge weapons from 7 AM – 6 PM
-There were still civilian workers that worked on the plantation
-Remembers a civilian being killed at 6:57 AM
-There was a dispute over whether it had been a legal kill, or not
-Never found out if he was just an early worker, or Viet Cong
-During the day on the plantation relaxed, played cards, and slept
-Only stayed on the Michelin plantation for ten days at a time before going back to the field
-The main focus of their patrols was the Mekong River Delta
(00:23:26) Enemy Contact and Duty with the 1st Infantry Division
-In the Mekong River Delta region they would routinely find enemy bunkers and booby traps
-He walked point a few times
-Leading a patrol, but not in command of it
-His initial job was to carry extra ammunition for the M60 machine gun
-Later on he would become a radioman and carried the PRC 25 radio for a squad
-He would go out with squads to set up an ambush, or establish an observation post
-Operated in mostly uninhabited areas which meant not having to deal with civilians as much
-There weren’t even that many villages where they were operating
-Their enemy in the Mekong was the Viet Cong
-The problem is that the Viet Cong could blend in with civilians and were hard to identify
-The Americans would initiate most contact with the Viet Cong
-Remembers during one ambush killed ten Viet Cong soldiers and then buried them
-The next day they killed another ten Viet Cong and buried them as well
-They were almost always the aggressors and never ran into Viet Cong ambushes
-On patrol the main threats were booby traps and snipers
-If a bunker was discovered it was treated with extreme caution
-They would usually throw in grenades to kill anyone that might be inside
-Sometimes the bunker was so deep that not even grenades were effective
(00:28:14) Travelling in Vietnam
-There were a lot of roads in the area that they were operating in
-It meant being able to travel between the field and the base relatively quickly
-Operated around a place called Black Widow Mountain
-Remembers walking through a river and almost falling into a bomb crater
-The water was clear enough that he could see where the crater was
(00:30:00) The Things They Carried
-He as a radioman carried a fifteen (or sixteen) pound radio and a five pound backup battery
-Carried five, or six grenades (each weighing about one pound)
-Carried twenty clips of ammunition for the M16 rifle
-Some rope
-They were able to drink the water from local sources
-Carried four to five quart sized canteens
-C rations

�-The total weight of all the things they carried was about sixty to seventy pounds
(00:31:32) Reassignment to the 101st Airborne Division
-He stayed with the 1st Infantry Division until mid-March 1970
-At the time he 1st Infantry Division was being pulled out of Vietnam
-As well as anyone who had had at least ten months of service in Vietnam
-He accepted that the 1st Infantry Division was going home, but he wasn’t
-He was taken to the rear and was then reassigned to the 101st Airborne Division
-He was flown up Hue via C-130 transport and took a truck from Hue to Camp Evans
-At Camp Evans he was assigned to C Company of the 2nd Battalion / 506th Infantry Regiment
-When he arrived, C Company was in the field, so he was taken to them by a Huey helicopter
-Once he met up with C Company he was introduced to the jungle and to Captain Vazquez
-Vazquez was the company commander at the time
-He was the “new guy” but was treated with more respect since he had seen some combat
-The men of the 101st were generally welcoming of men from the 1st Infantry Division
-Upon joining C Company he met and befriended another man from Iowa
(00:37:31) Duty and Patrolling with C Company
-His initial duty was just to be a rifleman and to carry extra ammunition for the M60
-He also wasn’t expected to walk point immediately either
-They were patrolling in thick jungle
-Eventually the monsoon season began
-Had to walk up and then down steep hills in torrential downpours
-Usually patrolled as squads, or as platoons, but not as a full company
(00:39:58) Enemy Contact with C Company
-Their main enemy was now the North Vietnamese and not the Viet Cong
-The North Vietnamese were far more aggressive
-By early April 1970 two men in C Company had already been killed
-Learned that bullets don’t really make a sound like they do in the movies
(00:41:53) Conditions in Central Vietnam
-The terrain was hilly and the heat was oppressive
-Completely different environment than where he had been with the 1st Infantry Division
-Some men passed out due to the heat and the changing oxygen levels
-If a man passed out another man had to go down to him and carry him back
-There was one time where the man sent down wound up passing out as well
-Passing out from heat stroke meant an immediate medical evacuation from the field
-If you cut your hand on bamboo as you came down the hill you were evacuated
-A cut could be deep enough that it reached the bone
-After a while the patrols and the inherent dangers of them became routine and avoidable
(00:44:14) Establishing Firebase Ripcord
-After a night spent at the base of the hill Ripcord would be on the company got up early
-Started walking up the hill to the top expecting to run into enemy resistance
-On the way up and at the top they received no enemy fire or found any enemy soldiers
-The most they found was some abandoned bunkers
-They secured the hilltop and started digging foxholes
-In the middle of digging a soldier was killed after hitting a grenade with his shovel
-John was close enough to take a piece of shrapnel and get covered in blood
-A medevac was called in and he and the other soldier were evacuated from the hilltop

�-He was taken back to Camp Evans
-While there he met Colonel Lucas the commander of 2nd Battalion
-Talked about how things were going in the field and if Ripcord was secure
-Wound up spending ten days at Camp Evans
-Three days in the hospital and seven days on guard duty
-After healing at Camp Evans he returned to Ripcord
-When he got back the fortifications were built and the howitzers and mortars were set up
-C Company was in charge of guarding the perimeter
-They occasionally took incoming fire
-C Company was eventually relieved by another company and flown off Ripcord
(00:52:14) Activity before the Battle of Ripcord
-After being on Ripcord he remembers flying to various hills in the vicinity
-The one thing he remembers the most is how a landing zone was established for an air assault
-First the artillery would bombard two potential landing zones
-This was so the North Vietnamese didn’t know the actual landing zone
-Then Cobra gunships would come in and strafe the landing zones
-He was always proud to have been part of those air assaults
-Doesn’t recall Captain Vazquez leaving and being replaced by Captain Hewitt
-After leaving Ripcord they carried out patrols in the area around the firebase
-In May and June of 1970 C Company didn’t take many, if any, casualties
-The only concept of time that he had was the night and day cycle
-Usually didn’t even know what day of the week it was
-During one operation he remembers being on the last helicopter out
-The door gunners started firing at targets on the ground
-The helicopter veered left and then right violently
-Learned that they were receiving fire and had been hit
-The M60 gunner in his squad had been hit in the thigh
-The fuel line had been hit by enemy fire
-Flew back to Camp Evans and the M60 gunner was evacuated
(00:59:00) Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Battle of Hill 902 Pt. 1
-On July 1, 1970 his platoon went to the top of Hill 902
-At the top he dug a foxhole and got settled in
-It was the second night that 3rd Platoon had been on the top of Hill 902
-Tremendous strategic mistake because the North Vietnamese knew where they were
-He was acting as the radio operator for Lieutenant Campbell at this point
-At one point he was told to move to a different foxhole with the M60 gunner
-This position was on the western edge of the hill near a trail
-He felt they would be the most exposed to a North Vietnamese assault
-Fortified his position with mines and prepared for the night
-That night he couldn’t smell the North Vietnamese in the jungle when he usually could
(01:05:09) Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Battle of Hill 902 Pt. 2
-They would sleep in shifts, and when the attack began on the morning of July 2nd he was asleep
-He was woken up and told that there was movement
-Immediately after that there was an explosion directly behind them at the command post
-John manned the radio immediately and remembers hearing the screaming of the wounded
-The Battle of Hill 902 was the only time that he ever fixed his bayonet

�-He called in artillery and told them to “fire for effect”
-At first thought that he had become the acting company commander
-He thought that everyone was dead or incapacitated
-The artillery barrage that came in from Ripcord was incredibly close to his position
-He called in a flare to illuminate the hill and popped right over the command post
-Didn’t call anymore so as not to potentially give away any American positions
-During the fighting he was able to collect a wounded soldier nearby and pull him into the hole
-The position next to his was hit hard by a satchel charge
-The original foxhole that he had been in took a direct hit from a rocket
-One soldier was vaporized by the explosion
-At one point the commanders in the rear thought that they had been wiped out
-He detonated all three of his claymore mines and threw all of his grenades during the fight
-The enemy was too close to shoot at with a rifle, or a machine gun
-Ran the risk of hitting your own soldiers at that point
-Cobra gunships eventually flew in and started giving supporting fire
(01:15:07) Aftermath of Hill 902
-As soon as it was light enough out 1st Platoon was flown in to relieve them
-Everything (equipment, people, weapons, vegetation) had been shot up and destroyed
-Remembers that there were bodies everywhere
-After the fighting they collected the dead North Vietnamese and dead Americans
-Counted at least thirty dead North Vietnamese
-Official numbers are around ten to fifteen dead North Vietnamese
-The area was secured and he returned to where his original foxhole had been
-He had to identify the remains of one of the men that had been in it
-By 11 AM July 2nd he, and the rest of his platoon, was pulled off of Hill 902
-Along with a crate full of unexploded ordinance
-After the battle he was so shell-shocked that he felt physically ill
-They were taken back to Firebase Ripcord and had to go right back into the field
-They weren’t even allowed to have one day off
-Expected to go back out without a medic or a company commander
-After Hill 902 he couldn’t bring himself to eat for two days
(01:19:44) Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Battle of Hill 1000
-On July 7, 1970 they were flown out to aid D Company which was pinned down on Hill 1000
-While moving forward on the hill he remembers a man directly behind him getting killed
-During the assault on Hill 1000 C Company was down to only being the size of a platoon
-At this point Jeff Wilcox was their new company commander and they had a new medic
-Remembers that on Hill 1000 that was the only time he saw a flamethrower in Vietnam
-It was never put into use on Hill 1000 though
-He stormed Hill 1000 as a radioman
-They started taking enemy fire and Cobras were called in to provide covering fire
-The medic was killed almost instantly on the second assault on July 8
-He was able to pull the medic’s body down the hill to be evacuated
-They were eventually ordered to pull off of Hill 1000 and regroup at a landing zone
-Remembers Captain Wilcox arguing with Colonel Lucas at the landing zone
-Colonel Lucas wanted a third assault and Captain Wilcox refused

�(01:28:21) Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Evacuation
-C Company went to Hill 805 for one night
-Remembers the commander of B Company being struck by lightning, but surviving
-On July 23, 1970 C Company was pulled back to Camp Evans and Ripcord was abandoned
-On July 23rd American B-52 bombers flew in and bombarded the NVA on Ripcord
-Learned at Camp Evans that A Company was still in the field and pinned down
-D Company was sent in and successfully extracted A Company
(01:31:12) Reassignment to the Tactical Operations Center (TOC)
-He was scheduled to go on R&amp;R in August
-There was a chance that he could go to the rear to serve in the TOC
-Decided to cancel his R&amp;R
-Had to tell his brother and his parents that he couldn’t meet them in Australia
-He was reassigned to the TOC at Camp Evans to be a radio operator for the 2nd Battalion
-Remembers that the new colonel for 2nd Battalion didn’t have much combat experience
-Colonel Lucas had been killed on July 23rd during the evacuation of Ripcord
-The new colonel would want to go out and meet with companies in the field
-Also wanted to be able to get the Combat Infantry Badge
-John would accompany him into the field
-Recalls that the colonel was a little bit naïve and gung ho
-Example: The colonel would walk point despite being a colonel
-He would work nights at the TOC and would check in with companies in the field each hour
(01:36:12) End of Tour &amp; Coming Home
-He finished his tour and was relieved of duty
-After his tour was up he still had some free time on Camp Evans
-At one point he volunteered to go on a supply run to a unit five miles from Camp Evans
-In retrospect felt it was a bad move, but fortunately nothing happened
-Upon returning home he flew out of Hue
-He and the other soldiers were told not to celebrate until they left Vietnamese airspace
-Once they were over the South China Sea everyone on the plane cheered
-They flew directly from Hue, South Vietnam to Seattle, Washington
(01:38:26) Drug Use &amp; Racial Tensions
-While in Vietnam he didn’t witness much drug use
-There was some use in the rear, but never saw drugs being used in the field
-Noticed that there was some racial tension in the rear, but not in the field
-He never had any problems with people due to their race
-Feels that he may have been too young or naïve to have noticed any tension
(01:39:44) End of Service
-Upon coming home there were some meetings about taxes and healthcare
-He was given thirty days of leave to go home
-Upon coming home he was warned about the possibility of being harassed by protestors
-He was told not to pay them any mind or to react to them
-He never encountered any protestors when he came home though
-He flew back to Iowa for his leave then flew down to Fort Hood, Texas
-Arrived at Fort Hood on November 30, 1970
-While at Fort Hood he was allowed to go home for Christmas
-Drove up to Detroit with some friends then flew to Chicago

�-From Chicago flew to Iowa then after Christmas flew back to Fort Hood
-His time with the Army ended in April 1971
-While at Fort Hood he took part in some radar testing
-Aside from that just stayed busy by cleaning vehicles and trying to kill time
(01:43:51) Life after the Army
-After the Army he returned to his family in Iowa
-He was only home for one week before returning to work in construction until August 1971
-He got married on September 4, 1971
-After his honeymoon he went to the University of Northern Iowa
-The first year back for him was difficult
-He was trying to cope with post-traumatic stress disorder
-Wound up graduating from in 1975 with a degree in business management
-He was able to attend college on the GI Bill
-He got a job at the Post Office in Cedar Rapids, Iowa
-Nine months later he quit the Post Office and bought his uncle’s farm
-His uncle’s farm was right next to his parents’ farm
-He actively farmed for twenty years, and still farms part time
-He fathered three sons and one daughter
-After farming for twenty years he returned to the Post Office and still works there (as of 2014)

�</text>
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                  <text>Smither, James&#13;
Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>John Kuennen was born in New Hampton, Iowa, in 1950. After graduating from high school in 1968 he attended college for one year before volunteering for the draft. He trained as an infantryman at Fort Polk, Louisiana, and went to Vietnam in November, 1969. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion of the 2nd Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division and patrolled the Mekong River Delta area as a radioman. In mid-March 1970 the 1st Infantry Division was sent back to the United States and he was reassigned to C Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division based out of Camp Evans as an infantryman and then as a radioman. He took part in the establishment of Firebase Ripcord on the edge of the A Shau Valley and later in the Battle of Firebase Ripcord specifically on Hill 902 on July 2nd and then on Hill 1000 on July 7th and 8th. After the fall of Firebase Ripcord on July 23rd, 1970 he was reassigned to the Battalion Tactical Operations Center at Camp Evans as a radio operator. In the fall of 1970 he returned to the United States and completed his service in the Army at Fort Hood, Texas in April 1971.</text>
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                    <text>Behind The Scenes During Covid-19
By: Kathryne Kuhlmann

�When patients walk into the waiting room, they
are wearing masks and gloves. The waiting
room is empty when they ﬁrst arrive. What is
normally bustling with people is now dead
silent except for the hum of the computers and
the classical music playing in the back. The new
recommendations from the CDC and the ADA
have turned the usually friendly atmosphere
into a cautious and wary space that smells of
harsh cleaners and medical supplies.

�It’s as though all trust has been tossed through
the window. In addition to updating medical
forms, patients now have a three question form
in regards to their social distancing habits and
any symptoms they may be experiencing. If that
wasn’t enough, before and after each encounter
with a patient, all surfaces are wiped down
repeatedly. The employees who work the front
desk cannot greet patients with a smile, as they
are wearing level three surgical masks and
gloves. These new barriers are not only physical
but also emotional.

�As everything else changes, one thing that has
remained the same is the sterilization
technique. After instruments are used they are
placed in the Ultrasonic Cleaning System. After
soaking for the designated time, they are
placed in self-sterilization pouches so they can
be placed in the Autoclave. The Autoclave heats
up the pouches to 121°C to ensure all
instruments are sterile. With everything that is
going on, it is comforting to know that some
things are still the same.

�On a typical week day these rooms are full of
people, conversation, music and proper oral
hygiene instruction. Now, there is only one
occupied room at a time. The music and
instruction remain the same, but the topic of
conversation has shifted. The only thing
people want to talk about is the pain that
motivated them to make an appointment, the
lack of necessary supplies, who is sick and
when the shutdown might end. Any older
patient who arrives requires constant
reassurance that the environment is sterile
and all other new regulations are in place, as
they are extremely anxious. These
conversations are draining as we try to focus
on the positive and encourage our patients.

�Limbo is any doctor’s least favorite place for
patient ﬁles. This is where all patients who do not
have any future appointments are organized. Each
addition to the shelf is like a stab through the heart
and as each day of quarantine gets longer, more
charts are added to the shelf. Only emergency
appointments can be made so any preventative and
cosmetic appointments must be delayed until
further notice. This is especially heartbreaking
because some of the preventative appointments are
needed to help people prevent these emergency
appointments. Some diagnoses like periodontal
disease might seem minor but these symptoms are
actually extremely important to the overall oral
health of a patient as can affect tooth and bone loss.
We want to help these individuals before they are in
pain but we can’t due to the stay at home order and
it’s devastating

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Robert Kuhn
(22:19)
Background Information (00:04)









Born June 9th 1934 in Grand Rapids Michigan. (00:05)
Reached rank of Master Sergeant in the U.S. Air Force. (00:15)
His step father was superintendent of Maintenance for a light medals corporation. His mother
worked for Amway. (00:45)
He had a brother who was killed in the Air Force. Robert also had a half brother and half sister.
(1:25)
He attended Creston High School and played football, baseball, and track. (1:38)
Robert also liked hunting and fishing. (2:21)
While his brother was in the Air Force and home on leave, he was killed in an automobile
accident. (2:45)
Robert enlisted in the Air Force with his friend who was to be drafted. (3:20)

Training (3:40)






He attended Hanson Air Force Base in Ney York and then to flight training in Texas. (3:46)
After completing flight school, Robert was examined to determine the type of air craft he was
best suited to fly. (4:06)
He had no trouble adjusting to military life. (4:23)
Robert was married for most of his service. The men were very social with each there and he
had a lot of friends. (5:10)
Robert was married July 17th 1954. (5:38)

Service (5:57)









He served at K55 in Hoson Korea. In the winter the area was very cold. (6:03)
Robert lived in a tent during his time at K55. (6:25)
While flying, Robert could see fights playing out on the ground. He himself never saw actual
combat. (6:45)
His wife had a baby girl while Robert was in Korea. His brother also was killed during this time.
(7:05)
Prior to his first tour of duty, Robert was sent to Korea on temporary duty. He was then sent
back to California then Montana where he met his wife. He was then sent back to Korea on a
second tour. (7:44)
While in Korea it was not recommended the men leave the base. (8:35)
Robert worked selling tires, as a manger or a gestation, and as a manger in a super store after he
was out of the service(9:55)
Robert spent approx. 18 months in Germany after serving in Korea. Then he was given orders to
be sent to Vietnam. (10:35)

�Service in Vietnam (10:40)











In Vietnam he flew C4 gunships. A typical mission lasted seven and a half hours. At least one
plane was airborne at all time. (11:34)
Robert was stationed in Saigon. The men would fly out of another base for brief periods if other
units had men on R&amp;R. (13:20)
Robert’s unit did not lose any crew members during his time in Vietnam. He and his crew was,
however, shot down. (14:16)
When the C4 was being shot down, the position was radioed in. the crew was picked up by the
Army. (14:34)
The base at Saigon rocketed attacked weekly. (15:20)
The men on base could tell if they were going to be rocketed on a particular night because many
would not show up for work. (15:51)
The heat was unbearable while serving in Vietnam. (16:25)
Robert was aware of the anti-war moments occurring in the U.S. (16:55)
When Robert returned home he was sent to Right Patterson Air Force Base where he served
until his retirement. He returned for Vietnam in Jun of 1969. (17:37)
Robert was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. (18:34)

Life after Service (19:00)





Every so often Robert will have a flashback or night terror pertaining to his service. (18:55)
Robert has never been back to Vietnam or Korea however he has toured the battle grounds of
Europe. (19:33)
Robert’s family was helpful in helping him readjust to home life. (20:20)
Despite having opportunities to join veteran’s organization, Robert does not belong to any.
(21:53)

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
George Kuiper
World War II
1 hour 56 seconds
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born in February 1926 in Holland, Michigan
-Grew up in Holland
-Father worked in the Holland Furniture Company
-During the Great Depression he only worked three days a week
-Despite having a job, the family still didn't have much
-He had three brothers
-His aunt lived with them
-Mother stayed home and took care of George and his brothers
(00:01:10) Start of the War and News on the War
-Remembers hearing about the attack on Pearl Harbor the afternoon of December 7, 1941
-In school they were discussing the events unfolding in Europe and Asia
-Always enjoyed history, so that stuck with him
-Still, he was only fifteen (or sixteen) so it wasn't of great importance
They still had family living in Germany during the war
-Father would write to them once in a while
-Had male relatives living in Germany that wound up fighting for the German
Army
-Didn't think that the war would be over before he would have to serve
-Started receiving extra physical education in high school
-Preparing all of the young men for military service
(00:03:14) Getting Drafted
-Graduated from high school in June 1944
-Received his draft notice to report for an Army physical in Detroit
-This happened shortly after he turned eighteen in February 1944
-Reported to the draft board in Holland in June 1944
-Father dropped him off there
Sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois by train for processing
(00:04:42) Basic Training and Field Artillery Training
-From Fort Sheridan he was sent to California by train for field artillery training
-The train ride was dirty from the soot produced by the steam engine
-Travelled across the Rocky Mountains and the Great Salt Lake
-Received his training in Camp Roberts, California
-Between San Francisco and Los Angeles
-Went to Fort Hunter Liggett
-Proving ground for the field artillery at Camp Roberts
-Received basic training and field artillery training at the same time
-Trained with WWI-era artillery pieces
-Learned how to prepare a charge, load a round, and set coordinates for

�the gun
-It took seven men to load and properly fire a howitzer
-His job was to load the powder charge
-Determined the range and elevation of the round
-Received their coordinates from headquarters via field telephone
-Later in the war, his job was to lay down telephone wire
-Establishing coordinates involved trigonometry
-Could fire three rounds per minute when the gun crew was trained
enough
-Each artillery shell weighed about ninety six to ninety eight pounds
-Had to also qualify with the M1 Carbine
-Went to a firing range and shot at targets 100 yards and 200 yards away
-Marched around Camp Roberts
-There was a strong emphasis on discipline and Army protocol
-Bed had to be made just right, everyone had to have their things uniform and
lined up
-He adjusted well, although initially the coarseness of the drill sergeants was a
shock
-Believes that it would teach a lot of young people discipline
-He was a little homesick at first, but got over it
-Spent sixteen weeks at Camp Roberts
-The howitzer was pulled by a modified tank
-Could go to Paso Robles, California which was a town near Camp Roberts
-Took the bus from the camp to the town
-It was good to get off the base on Saturdays
-If you didn't have anything to do, they'd find something for you to
do
(00:17:28) Pre-Deployment
-After Camp Roberts he was sent across the country to Fort Meade, Maryland
-Stayed there for about one week
-Went to an infiltration course
-Crawling under barbed wire while a machine gun is fired over your head
-One day had to march eight miles to the infiltration course in the pouring
rain
-Afterwards had to march the eight miles back
-Did the infiltration course three times
-At Fort Meade he was still a replacement and did not have a unit
(00:20:07) Deployment
-After a week at Fort Meade he was sent up to Camp Myles Standish, Massachusetts
-Stayed there for two days
-Boarded the RMS Aquitania (sister ship of the RMS Lusitania)
-Sailed alone and left after dark
-He pulled guard duty, four hours on eight hours off, looking for U-Boats
-Took seven days to sail across the Atlantic Ocean
-Weather wasn't too bad
-Some men got seasick

�(00:22:14) Arrival in the European Theatre
-Arrived in Glasgow, Scotland
-Went by train to Southampton, England
-Boarded a ship and was given a loaf of bread and a ring of bologna
-It was a small transport ship
-Had to sleep in hammocks
-Anchored just outside of Le Havre, France
-Couldn't go into the harbor because it was heavily damaged
-Had to climb down the side of the ship using rope ladders to board LSTs
-Also dealing with twenty foot high waves
-In Le Havre they boarded "40 and 8" boxcars and traveled to Paris
-"40 and 8" boxcars: capable of carrying forty men, or eight horses
-By now it was November 1944
-In Paris he went to a replacement depot and was assigned to the 191st Field Artillery
Battalion
(00:26:10) Joining the 191st and the Battle of the Bulge Pt. 1
-From Paris he traveled to Belgium in open topped trucks to join the 191st
-By the time he joined them it was mid/late December 1944 and extremely cold
-Saw a lot of American planes flying east into Germany on bombing runs
-German planes would show up occasionally and strafe them
-The first night that he joined the battalion he was placed on guard duty
-It was freezing and he could see Germans and Americans exchanging gunfire
-They followed the infantry and the tanks as they pushed the Germans back
-They were attached to the 4th Armored Division
-Working with "split trail" howitzers that had longer barrels
-Pulled by trucks
-Took an hour to set up one gun
-After it was set up the 1st lieutenant would sight the gun
-He was assigned to #1 Gun in A Battery
-They would receive orders to do "harassing fire"
-Fire a shell every two minutes at the Germans to keep disrupting them
-Had to learn how to sleep through the artillery fire
-Wore long underwear, two pairs of pants, combat boots, a sweater, and a heavy jacket
-Also wore a wool cap under his helmet
-This was all just to keep from freezing to death
-Not allowed to light a fire because it would give their position away to the
Germans
-German 88mm gun crews could spot the fire and zero in on their position
-Didn't know anything about the progress of the battle or the progress of the war
-Just advanced and followed orders to carry out fire missions
-Some days they advanced a couple miles
-Other days they had to stop and bombard the German positions before
moving
(00:34:53) Rhine River Campaign Pt. 1
-The next major fighting was crossing the Rhine River at Worms in early spring 1945
-Their job was to ire shells over the river to cover the Army Engineers

�-The Army Engineers were trying to set up a pontoon bridge to cross the
river
-Had to contend with German artillery and German Me 109s
-One plane got so close that he saw the pilot's face
-Could see low level dogfights and high altitude bombers going into
Germany
-Punched through the German lines and advanced fifty miles into Germany
-The German line closed behind them and they ran out of gas for three days
-German bombers would come in and harass them
-One gun got hit and one truck was hit and they took some casualties
(00:38:22) Battle of the Bulge Pt. 2
-Once the Germans had begun to retreat, they began to advance out of the Ardennes
Forest
-This would have been near the end of January 1945
-Could see charges tied to trees along the road
-Germans were going to try to block the road but retreated too quickly
-Couldn't see any of the German frontier fortifications due to the snow
(00:40:00) Rhine River Campaign Pt. 2 and Advancing into Germany
-While crossing the Rhine River the Germans tried desperately to stop the Army
Engineers
-The Germans failed and he was one of many that crossed on that pontoon bridge
-Before crossing over some men found a warehouse and found several big cases of wine
-After they had crossed the Rhine River they had to deal with mined roads
-Remembers seeing German soldiers leaving their foxholes and retreating, some without
guns
-Got caught behind German lines for three days before they could get refueled
-Once they got refueled they kept advancing and were at the front of the advance
-Because of this they didn't see a lot of prisoners
-Went through towns that they had had to shell
-Saw the civilians living in the rubble
-Pushed the Germans back every day
-There was still some last ditch German resistance near the end, mostly artillery
harassment
-Remembers one night after crossing a river he was camped out next to a house
-German artillery was so intense that he thought it was a thunderstorm
-The next day he saw an artillery shell lodged in the porch of the house
-Had it not been a dud, he probably would have died
-Started seeing more civilians retreating east that were trying to get away from the Allies
-Had been brainwashed into thinking the Allies would kill any civilians they saw
-Proved the propaganda wrong and just drove around the civilians
(00:48:00) End of the War Pt. 1
-Got into Czechoslovakia by the time the war ended on May 8, 1945
-The 191st entered Czechoslovakia on April 29, 1945
-Saw Ohrdruf Concentration Camp in Germany around April 7, 1945
-First concentration camp liberated by the U.S. (April 4, 1945)
-Saw corpses laid out like cord wood, couldn't fathom the inhumanity

�-Went back into Germany for a while after the war on occupation duty
-Russia had begun to set up their occupation zones
-He was reassigned to the 405th Infantry Regiment for a while
-Then he was reassigned to a unit within the 4th Armored Division
(00:50:14) Field Telephone Work
-Enjoyed laying down wire for gun batteries more than being on a gun crew
-Safer than being on a gun, surrounded by gunpowder
-Rode around on a weapons carrier
-Combination of a jeep and pickup truck
(00:50:58) End of the War Pt. 2
-With the war over they were able to stay in houses and sleep in beds
-Had more contact with German civilians, and contact became more positive after the war
(00:51:44) General Patton
-Only saw General Patton a few times during the war, and that was close to the front line
-Tried to avoid him, simply felt that he didn't need to be where high ranking
officers were
(00:52:12) End of the War Pt. 3
-Stayed in Germany on occupation duty until early 1946
-Drove around Germany in a jeep, transporting personnel around the country
-Got to drive on the Autobahn
-Saw that the parts of Germany that were intact were clean and advanced
-Towns and cities had been flattened by the bombing
-Could smell rotting bodies in the rubble
-Some men in his unit would try to help civilians whenever it was possible
-Everyone mostly kept to themselves though
-He got to take a short trip to Paris
-Another culture shock seeing brothels
-Got to see Notre Dame
-Stayed in a hotel
-His travel companions brought back prostitutes at night
-The vacation only lasted a few days
-Knew that venereal disease was pretty common problem
-One soldier needed ninety consecutive shots of penicillin to treat his infection
-Did some duty with the Military Police on a train
-Stopping people from jumping on the train, or stealing anything
-Black market activity was a problem after the war
(00:59:04) Coming Home and Life after the War
-In early 1946 he received orders to go home
-Took a train across northern Germany and northern France back to Le Havre
-Boarded the SS George Washington and sailed to New York
-From New York he was taken to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey for a few days
-Took a train to Camp Atterbury, Indiana and was discharged there
-Worked as a mechanic in a garage for a few years after the war
-Started working on boats and started his own boat repair shop in Zeeland, Michigan

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Harold Kuizema
Length of interview (1:00:15)
(00:00) Background
Born in Grand Rapids, MI in 1925. (00:00)
Went to Oakdale Christian School, which was the same school that his father had
attended and his mother was a teacher there. (00:12)
Describes his reaction to the bombings of Pearl Harbor, which occurred while he was in
high school. (00:50)
Once he graduated high school, he wanted to join the Air Corps. However, the testing
determined that he was colorblind. (02:00)
While taking a trip to California in September of 1943, his parents had received notice
that he was to report to Detroit because he had been drafted into the U.S. Army. However, he
was unable to report for a few weeks because he was out of state. When he returned in
November, he had to report to Detroit. (04:00)
(05:30) Basic Training
After reporting to Detroit, they were sent to the Chicago area for induction. From there
they traveled by train to Camp Roberts in California for seventeen weeks of training.
(05:41)
Woke up at 6:00am for revelry, followed by breakfast, calisthenics, and then specialty
training. He was in the artillery unit and communications in the 106th Infantry Division. (07:44)
His speciality was primarily communications. He learned to operate the telephone, radio,
and semaphore. (08:42)
Describes the physical training. Recalls that overall, he enjoyed it. (09:08)
Recalls that his drill instructor, Sergeant Webb, was a very disciplined individual. Thinks
that the drill instructor must have liked him because after the first few weeks, he made
him
an Acting Corporal. (09:52)
At this point, he had no idea where he would be going. (10:23)
On the weekends, he either visited his cousin or went to Pasadena with some of his
friends from high school who were also at Camp Roberts. (10:36)
His training at Camp Atterbury was much more specialized and intense. He was placed in
a Wire Section where his responsibility was to lay wires from the guns to the Observation
Point (OP), and to either operate the phones either at the guns or at the OP. (12:10)
After laying the wires, they were usually the last people to leave because they had to pick
up the wires. (13:00)
Colonel Kelly told them that they were going to be “German killers.” He assumed that he
was going to Germany. (14:17)
After his seventeen weeks, they were given fifteen days of furlow time and he went home
to visit his family before reporting to Camp Atterbury, Indiana, (11:01)
Because his father was a World War I veteran, when Harold left him to go overseas, he
broke down because he realized that it might be the last time he saw his son. (11:27)

�Reported back to camp before boarding the U.S.S. Wakefield. (15:06)
(15:15) Service in France
Recalls that he had never been on a ship before, but was lucky because he did not get
seasick despite the rough oceans. (15:15)
The trip took approximately seven days before they reached Liverpool, England. Ship
zigzagged in order to avoid submarines. (16:14)
Traveled to a camp. Was delegated to go to Wales to pick up trucks. (16:36)
Afterwards, they went to Southampton to pick up LSTs and then traveled across the
English Channel. (17:09)
Thinks that he learned more about what they were doing after his service ended. (17:25)
Traveled by truck across France, camping along the way. Recalls that it was cold and
rainy in late November. (17:41)
Thinks that he was too naive at the time to realize the dangers. Admits that he was afraid
and concerned, but not as much as the older men. (18:27)
Traveled across France to the frontlines without resistance, where they took over the
positions of the 2nd Infantry Division. Were told that the area was very quiet that was
wellequipped with bunkers. (18:53)
(19:44) Battle of the Bulge
Their artillery was firing day and night. Some men were sent to operate at the outpost to
operate the phones and were captured the first day, on December 16. Luckily, at the time,
he was stationed at the battery. (19:44)
On the morning of the 16th, they were shelled very heavily. Because they were so well
dug in, he doesn’t recall any casualities. However, by the afternoon, tanks began arriving and
they sent out men with bazookas who were killed immediately. (21:03)
There was a battery across the road that had a gun that was not put in position. and they
used direct fire on the tanks down the road and were able to destroy one of the tanks. But in
the meantime, the remaining tanks opened fire on them and they suffered from many
casualties. (21:50)
During this encounter, he was delegated to go to Schomberg to get ammunition. When
they arrived, Schomberg was being heavily shelled as well. Describes the difficulty they faced
while returning. (22:32)
Was assigned to go to the rear to find new positions to retreat to. (24:34)
Recalls that during the retreat, he found a cave to hide in for protection. While he was in
the cave, three 88 shells landed within 1500 ft of him. (25:39)
Suggested putting the switchboard in the cave. Began laying wire from the switchboard
across the road. However, they were told to evacuate before they were able to finish
because they were notified that German tanks were coming. (26:11)
Describes the retreat to Schomberg. All of the trucks except for one made it. Troops
were never able to get their guns out of the area and they were consequently destroyed.
(27:37)
Describes how he kept warm during this time. (30:53)
Continued retreating until they reached St. Vith in Belgium where he rejoined the men
from his particular wire section. (31:40)
Describes the scope of this battle. (33:17)

�By the 19th, they had retreated to an area near Vielsallm where they reorganized and
acquired food. Describes staying at a farmhouse where they pulled guard. (33:41)
The following morning, they received notice to turn the area into a defensive position.
Describes their process. Several troops eventually joined them there within the next few
days.
(36:26)
On the morning of the 20th, a German patrol of about 25 or 30 men came down the road.
Opened up their 50 calibers and killed the majority of them and had taken several
prisoners. (38:40)
Describes his impression of the Germans. Recalls that the majority of them were
startlingly young and many were very willing to give up. (40:06)
Recalls that there were snipers who had managed to hide in haystacks who had killed
some of their men. (41:22)
Thinks that the Germans didn’t realize what they had because of the fog. (42:00)
On the 23rd, the Germans had completely surrounded them. Describes this encounter.
(43:02)
At one point, a shell hit his thumb. He went to the CP and realized that his wound was
largely insignificant compared to what others were suffering from. While he was there,
he
watched them interrogate a German officer. (43:27)
Describes the German tanks hitting their building. While trying to escape, he was hit in
the leg. They retreated to a ditch and someone dressed his wound. Everyone who had
stayed in the CP had been captured. (44:40)
(46:43) Recuperation
Describes his experience escaping through the woods towards a field hospital where there
were several American and German wounded men. Spent a few days there before being
sent to another hospital. (46:43)
Was transported first by train then by ambulance to Paris. The hospital in Paris had just
been set up by American nurses. Describes some of the serious injuries he saw. When he
arrived, he wrote his first letter to his family. Before that, his family had received a notice
saying that he was Missing in Action. (47:45)
Was flown to England where he spent the next four months recovering from wounds and
frozen feet. (49:35)
After three months in the hospital, he was given a job at the hospital from the head of the
ward who he knew from Grand Rapids. Describes some of his duties. (50:23)
After his four months, he returned to his outfit and was given a pass for a week off.
Describes some of his unique experiences. (51:20)
He had had difficulty returning to his outfit because they were responsible for dealing
with prisoners. Describes his travels throughout Europe. At this point, he had a strong
sense
that the war was ending. (53:00)
When he finally returned to his outfit, it had been completely reorganized, the majority of
which were replacements. Describes some of his duties. (54:17)
Describes the “jubilation” he saw on VE-Day. (54:57)
Left his outfit in August to return to the United States to join the 104th Division to go to
the Pacific. VJ-Day occured when they were about to leave. Describes the celebration
when
they arrived in New York Harbor. (55:43)

�(57:19) Life After Service
When he landed in Chicago, he visited aunt and uncle before taking a train to Grand
Rapids. (57:19)
Doesn’t recall exactly how his parents greeted him, but says that it must’ve been one of
pure elation. (58:37)
He met his wife during this time, who he married four years later. (58:55)
Because he had had some typing experience, he was sent to Camp Campbell, Kentucky,
where he was placed in a discharge center until he had earned enough points to be discharged in
December. (59:02)
Thinks that his military service forced him to grow up and mature very quickly. (59:31)

�</text>
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                <text>Harold Kuizema was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1925. After high school, he had tried to join the Air Corps, but was unable to because the testing determined that he was colorblind. In November of 1943, he was drafted into the U.S. Army Corps during World War II. He trained with the 106th Division, which went to Europe in the fall of 1944.  His specialty was primarily communications and he was responsible for operating the telephones and laying wires from the guns to the observation points. His artillery unit had just taken up positions on the Ardennes front when they were attacked at the start of the Battle of the Bulge. He managed to stay a step ahead of the Germans, and was fighting at a roadblock when he was wounded and evacuated to England.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran History Project Interview
World War II
Anthony Kuna

Total Time – (38:29)
Background
•
•
•

He was born April 23, 1923 in Shepherd, Michigan (00:35)
He was a part of the 71st Division
He received many medals from the military
o He received two Bronze Stars for bravery (01:08)
o He is not exactly sure how he earned the Bronze Stars (01:59)

Enlistment/Training – (02:04)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

•
•
•
•

He was drafted when he was 18 years old (02:37)
o He was not given time to make a decision if he wanted to enlist
Before he was drafted he had a job
He went to basic training at Camp Carson, Colorado (02:45)
o It was his first time out of Michigan
o He enjoyed seeing the mountains
He went out there by train (03:09)
The first weeks at basic training were very difficult
o They weren’t used to receiving orders
o They were trained by veterans (03:38)
He had been at Fort Custer in Michigan for a few days receiving medical shots,
etc.
He does not know why he had been chosen for artillery duty
o He just happened to be in that camp (04:04)
At Fort Carson, every man that was over six feet tall was chosen to work with
mules because he could load a mule without having to stand on his toes (04:43)
o It was extremely different to work with mules – they are smarter than
horses
o Those from the city had a tough time dealing with the animals
In an infiltration course, the machine gun fell and shot a man in the helmet – he
ended up being fine (06:05)
After Fort Carson, he was sent to California (06:50)
o It rained the entire time that they were on maneuvers
They used mules to haul supplies through swamps and for hauling supplies
He was then sent to Georgia (08:13)
o He did not like Georgia because it was so hot and muggy (08:15)

�•
•
•
•
•
•

The food in training was pretty good (08:36)
o Their cook made their food the way it was supposed to be cooked
At Fort Benning, Georgia, his made duty was cooking (09:19)
A month before they were preparing to go overseas, they pulled him out and put
him on a machine gun (09:25)
He was trained on a 50 caliber machine gun
He was attached to an 155mm artillery unit
It was strange to transfer from civilian life to military life (10:19)

Active Duty – (10:47)
•

•
•
•
•
•
•

•
•
•

•
•
•

He was shipped to Europe by a boat
o He was excited to get on the ship because it was something different
(11:01)
o There were many that got seasick
It took 12 days – there were 112 ships in the convoy that went across (11:26)
o They left New York Harbor
 They could see the Statue of Liberty when they left
They were bunked in the ship – there were 6 levels of bunks
They were attacked by a submarine (12:38)
They landed in Le Havre, France (13:01)
From Le Havre, they traveled to a place where tents were set up in a field (13:25)
o They stayed in the field until their equipment made it
o They were there for nearly 10 days
After spending time in the field, they left for Vichy [not Vichy, but tot he AlsaceLorraine sector near the German border], France where they began fighting
(14:25)
o They went back and forth with the Germans
o They softened up enemy positions for the infantry
He continued on until reaching Wels, Austria (15:28)
When he got into Germany, there was nothing left to the towns but piles of bricks
(16:12)
o Saw a railroad engine two blocks from the railroad yard
He was assigned to the 155mm cannon crew (16:39)
o There was a gunner, guy on the breach, two men on the tray, and two
would ram the shell in, and then two men would put the powder in (16:56)
 The recoil was roughly 4 to 5 feet
o The shell of the 155mm weighed around 96 lbs. each. (17:39)
o His main duty was to protect the cannons
The perimeter was set by placing machine guns around it (18:25)
For gun placement, they would try to get into the woods in order to hide
o Sometimes they had to be out in the open (18:54)
Their job was to soften the German front lines so that the infantry could come
through

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

•

•
•
•
•

They ate C-rations wherever they were and they slept on the ground (19:38)
o At one point they had to eat K-rations
 He enjoyed the C-rations more
When they slept they would sometimes dig a hole (20:46)
He was able to send letters nearly once a week
o Receiving letters made the soldiers feel good (21:41)
o He had a girl back home
They crossed the Rhine River at night (22:37)
o They were crossing on pontoon bridges
At one point, two planes were strafing them – he shot down both of them (24:02)
Another time, they were told they were surrounded
o He shot off around 5 cases of ammunition – 500 rounds in each case
His unit found civilians hoarding Red Cross supplies (25:27)
o The packages were supposed to be used for their prisoners of war
In Wels, Austria, he was sent on guard duty outside of the city (26:07)
o He was not aware before he got there that there was a death camp
 They opened the gate and he could smell the death (26:27)
 There were “walking skeletons”
 Pits of people
 Some were cut from head to toe
 When those in the camp were fed real food they died – their
stomachs were not used to real food (27:19)
 The prisoners thanked the soldiers that liberated them
 He had guard duty in the death camp
 He was here for two weeks
o He began wondering how humans could do that to another
o At one point he gave a cigarette to a prisoner and instead of smoking it, he
ate it (28:42)
o The military brought the people of Wels in to see it (29:05)
 Those in the city said that they did not know what was going on
 The military ordered them to build coffins and give proper burials
to the dead prisoners (29:21)
He later met with a man that was a prisoner in the Wels concentration camp
(30:55)
o They hugged when they met
o The prisoner was a teenager when he was at the camp
o They are still in touch (31:38)
He was able to see one of the first jets that Germans had during the war
After the war, he went back to Germany to try and accumulate enough points to
leave
When he went home, he was loaded onto a train and taken to a camp where he
was designated as a cook (35:03)
He then went from Le Havre, France back to America – there were 15,000 aboard
the USS General Taylor (35:30)

�After the Service – (35:49)
•
•
•
•
•
•

The Statue of Liberty signified to them that they were home
The war made him into a man – went in as a boy, came out as a man (36:33)
When he returned home, he went back to work at the a trailer plant (36:43)
o It was not hard to get a job there – they accepted them right back in
He then became a cop in the Alma, Michigan
o There were two sets of laws in the town – a set for the poor and a set for
the rich
He retired in 1988 (38:02)
Went to Central Michigan University and retired from there

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Interviewee’s Name: Sophie Kurys
Name of War: All American Girls Professional Baseball League
Length of Interview: (00:49:12)

Interviewed by: Gordon Olson, Saturday September 26, 2009
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, April 6, 2010
Interviewer: “Sophie, before we begin can you tell me a little bit about the earlier
days? When and where were you born, your parents and that sort of thing.”
I was born in Flint, Michigan on May 14, 1925. My dads name was Anthony Kurys and
my mother was Antoinette Pogeska and she was from Poland.
Interviewer: “What nationality is Kurys?”
Kurys is Ukrainian.
Interviewer: “Ukrainian, ok.”
One person said I was a Uka Polock.
Interviewer: “It works for me. It works-- it works. You grew up on the Flint
area?”
I grew up in Flint, Michigan.
Interviewer: “How did you get started playing ball? Did you have older brothers?”
I had two brothers and a sister and we lived across the street from an empty lot and so the
kids in our neighborhood—we had one ball and one bat and we would knock the stuffing
out of that and re-sew it and keep knocking the stuffing out of it. That’s all we ever had,
but it was a wonderful time in my life. When we played in that empty lot it was a
salvation because there were a poor bunch of Polish families in that area.
Interviewer: “If you were in Flint, were they working in the auto industry?”
Well it was in Flint, Michigan and they built Buicks and they had Chevy and that’s where
most of the people worked. My dad worked at the Buick factory and of course we all
went to the catholic school. 2:35
Interviewer: “When did you start playing any form of organized ball?”
Well, as I got older—when I was about thirteen or fourteen, then I played in the city
leagues and I played there until I was seventeen and then when I was seventeen years old
Wrigley sent scouts all over the United States and Canada and I wasn’t even home when I
was scouted. I mean the girls called me up and they finally tracked me down and said,

1

�“Are you going to the tryouts?” I said, “what tryouts?” They said, “Well there’s a scout
here from Chicago and Wrigley is forming a women’s team because a lot of the guys are
already signing up and going into the army and he is afraid he’ll have an empty ball park.
3:35 ” And I said, “tryout? You know it’s thirty two degrees out there and we got snow
flurries” and they said, “we’re going to tryout in a gym” and I said, “In a gym?” They
said, “Yeah, Burstyn Field House”, and I said, “Well, that’s near my home and that’ll be
ok”, so they picked me up and I had on a skirt and sweater and like in the movie—they
had rain and we had snow flurries so, our windows were protected, so I didn’t break any
and he hit us grounders and we played catch and batted and he picked three of us, but the
one girl was married and the other girl was taking care of her elderly parents, so I was the
only one that left from Flint. 4:24
Interviewer: “Did you leave right away after the tryouts?”
Ya, well, I left in May and they sent me a Pullman ticket and I had never been on a train,
I had never been out of Michigan. I didn’t know what the heck was going on. I thought
well, ok and the train was a Grand Trunk and I had the lower berth and it was bumpy
going on this train and when I got into Chicago it was just pouring rain, so they said what
to do, “get a cab and go to the hotel and we’ll reimburse you”, and when I got there and
got into the room I thought, “what am I doing here, I could play ball in Flint”, I was so
homesick I wanted to go home and they said, “wait a minute, wait a minute, who are you
rooming with?” I said, “I don’t know”, and they said—Johnny Gottselig, he was
Canadian and being I was only seventeen he would get me with women who were older
and kind of baby me. 5:45 that wasn’t really necessary because the next day the sun was
shinning and I was ready to go and everything was ok. Everything came out great
Interviewer: “The sun came out and everything looked better. Johnny Gottselig
was the scout who---?”
Johnny Gottselig was a Hockey player and wasn’t too well versed and in spite of it we
won the championship.
Interviewer: “He was your manager and he was the one who did the try out.”
We had chaperones and that was part of the deal because a lot of the women wouldn’t--my dad said, “no way was I going”, but my mother said, “she loves to play, let her go”.
6:22
Interviewer: “So it was your mother who –“
She was the best and she was my strongest supporter. My sister Emma would say, “why
doesn’t Sophie have to do the dishes?” My mother would say, “never mind, let Sophie
play”.
Interviewer: “Bless her heart.”
My mother was great. She was the best.

2

�Interviewer: “So you got to Chicago and then you?”
We had spring training at Wrigley Field and it got cut short because it was raining pretty
hard, so they thought they would send us to our respective home towns and get
acquainted there and maybe the weather would be better, so we were met by a contingent
of—I remember a little Rabbi that was in—they met us and we were housed with
different families. 7:15
Interviewer: “Which town did you go to?”
I went to the Thielands, they were—they had three boys and of course they told me how
to play ball and never take the first pitch and all that stuff.
Interviewer: “The first town that you went to and that you played for?”
Racine, I played with Racine all the time. I played from 1943 to 1950 in Racine and then
I went to Battle Creek for about a month.
Interviewer: “So they sent you off to Racine, you had a little bit of spring training,
but not a whole lot.”
We had spring training, but not too much because the weather was just as bad there. We
were only sixty miles from Chicago, so there wasn’t any improvement. 7:59 The people
were great and they first came out to see—out of curiosity to begin with and then when
they came out and saw that we could really play then they came out in droves and we did
real well. They had sixty-five hundred people at the playoffs. 8:22
Interviewer: “Wow, that’s a big crowd. Now when you had been playing back in
Flint, that was softball right?”
Yes, they made us steal bases and they changed the length of the bases and that and
Dottie, she could almost throw a side arm, which is acceptable.
Interviewer: “You started in 1943 at the beginning of the league.”
Yes.
Interviewer: “And it looked a lot like softball yet at the beginning.”
It wasn’t really softball and it wasn’t really baseball. It was a combination of the two and
it worked out beautifully. 9:02
Interviewer: “Except they permitted base stealing and that’s the strength of your
game. Let’s jump right in and talk about stealing basis.”
You know, even in the big leagues the pitchers have a little bit of—you know they might
open their shoulder a little bit or they might have their feet a little bit closer to first base.

3

�They always have a little bit of something that you can pick up on them and your first
thing is that the first step is the most important step and if you get that you’re on your
way and as I said, Ricky Henderson was a great base stealer, he was cocky as the devil,
but he was a good ball player and they would always compare me to him and it was silly
because he was a far better player than I was. 10:04
Interviewer: “You stole an awful lot of bases though, so you watch the pitcher and
you look for?”
They might open up a shoulder a little bit when they’re going to throw and they always
got a little something that you can pick up on and body language is very important and
you pick up on those things. Some of the pitchers, if they didn’t pay any attention to me,
I could steal their pants off because you know if you kept throwing at me and kept
throwing to first base you could tire me out, but if you didn’t pay attention I could really
go. 10:43
Interviewer: “And when you start your first step is it a crossover step?”
The first step is the most important step in stealing.
Interviewer: “Did you use like a crossover step? Left foot cross over and go?”
Yes, you know this league was just fantastic and nobody paid attention to it for the
longest time and then we had a reunion in Fort Wayne and all of a sudden Penny
Marshall saw that documentary. They had a documentary on PBS and she saw that and it
clicked in her head that it would make a great baseball movie and by golly it did and she
made tons of money on that movie and they still show it. 11:35 I still see it every now
and again.
Interviewer: “It’s very popular and it changed a lot of things. I want to focus on
your career now though. Base stealing gets you from first to second, but as they say,
you cannot steal first base. You were a leadoff hitter?”
Yes that was it—my job was primarily to get on base and if I would get on base our good
hitters would bring me in and they said, “Well, if Sophie gets on first, she’s on third”, so
that worked out pretty good.
Interviewer: “You would get on and immediately figure—“
You know, a lot of times of they didn’t pay attention to me on second base; I could steal
third at will. It’s easier to steal third than second. 12:26
Interviewer: “The pitcher has a harder time watching you.”
That’s right.
Interviewer: “There’s no baseman on the base to hold you close.”
That’s exactly right.

4

�Interviewer: “And off you go. Now, that’s a lot of running and sliding into those
bases all the time—“
I had strawberry upon strawberry and even today I get up sometimes in the morning and
this bothers me a little bit, but not bad.
Interviewer: “So you still have some of the residual effects.”
Right, right.
Interviewer: “A strawberry just rubs the skin raw.”
Yea and when it’s sore it leaks, but our chaperone was pretty sharp and she made a donut
affair and put it across the strawberry so it wouldn’t leak on my clothes because if it did it
would stick to you and you would have to pull that off and you’d be in agony. 13:29
She put that donut affair so it wouldn’t touch because it would leak.
Interviewer: “I got to ask you—you’re standing on first base and maybe you got a
walk, you walked quite a bit, but you could hit, you were a hitter too. Let’s say you
get to first base and you stole three bases last night and you got a strawberry that
won’t quit already, did it ever occur to you while standing on first, “well maybe I’ll
just stay here”?”
No, no never, never, we never quit. You could get strawberry upon strawberry and you
could go on the other side and you’d get another strawberry, but I’ll tell you these women
were far tougher than these guys are playing ball nowadays. 14:13 You know, I asked
somebody, “what is a spasm that some of these guy get? What do they get in their back
that they can’t play?” I still don’t know what they mean by a spasm.
Interviewer: “Did you miss many games when you were playing?”
Yea, I had a very bad sprained ankle and couldn’t play, but I was there yelling come on,
come on, come on.
Interviewer: “Most of the time you played every game.”
Yes, I played one hundred and twenty-five games and some of those guys that make
twenty-five million don’t even play a hundred and thirty games. 14:54
Interviewer: “You’re right, they have to rest every day.”
You know Al Kaline was one of the guys that said after they game him a hundred
thousand dollars, “I don’t deserve a hundred thousand dollars”. Now that’s my kind of a
guy.
Interviewer: “A lot of people in Michigan think he’s as good as it gets.”

5

�He was one of the best. I met Hal Newhouser in San Francisco at a card show and he
said, “Sophie you know I won twenty games and you know what kind of a raise they
game me?” I said, “no”, and he said, “five hundred dollars”, and I said, “God, if you
were playing today you would make twenty million a year.” 15:38 You can’t say
enough there.
Interviewer: “What about the pay you got? Do you remember what you got paid?”
We started out with fifty and the highest paid would be one hundred and twenty-five and
later on when I played in Battle Creek, they paid me three hundred and twenty-five a
week and then I got a bonus for being the most valuable player in 1946.
Interviewer: “What was the bonus?”
A thousand bucks.
Interviewer: “Did you send money home?” 16:12
Yes, always.
Interviewer: “Your family needed some help?”
Yes, they were rough times and I always sent money home.
Interviewer: “So you played right through the war years?”
Yes and you know when we traveled we didn’t have luxury with these guys and those
were war years and we often sat in the isle of a train on top of our suitcases and finally
they gave us one of the rickety buses and they couldn’t even find a bus like that for the
movie. And you now when we had to stop for some of the girls, a pit stop, the girls, if we
had shorts on, we had to put dresses or skirts on because we never could be seen in public
in shorts or slacks. 17:13 We always had a skirt and a dress to go into a restaurant or a
pit stop.
Interviewer: “Is it also true that you had to have lipstick on?”
Yes, you know the one thing we did put on one of our chaperones, because Johnny
Gottselig was always telling us what the hockey players did, so we said to this Canadian
chaperone, “do you have the key to the coaches box?” And she said, “well no” and we
said, “we can’t play until we get the key to the coaches box” and she said, “well where
can I get it?” and I said, “well you got to go to Johnny, you got to go to our manager and
get the key because we can’t start playing”. 18:00 She didn’t know anything about
baseball. “You don’t have any lipstick on” and we looked at her and said, “are you for
real?” That was one of the things we pulled on them.
Interviewer: “Did she ever find the key to the coaches box?”
No. Johnny looked at her like she was crazy and said, “Aw, they’re pulling your leg”.

6

�Interviewer: “You got to have fun doing this that’s for sure.”
We had a lot of fun. One thing about our league is we made wonderful friendships that
have lasted forever. You know we’ve known some of these girls for sixty years. 18:34
They’re all great.
Interviewer: “That first year, you stayed with a family? Were you the only one?”
I had a roommate and they had three boys in that family and naturally they gave us tips
and tell you this and tell you that and we would say, “you know, we have a manager and
we have to pay attention to the manager”. 19:03
Interviewer: “So you continue—you were seventeen years old when you started and
you continued to learn more and more about the game.”
Oh yes, of course I’ll tell you—these guys that are playing ball right now, I told one of
the girls—you know they have and E for errors, and I said, “they have an ME which
means mental errors, these guys they throw home when they should be throwing to
second base. The ball goes to the short stop, he’s on second and he runs to third and he
gets thrown out and that’s a mental mistake and they shouldn’t allow them to get away
with that stuff. 19:39 They better take them back to spring training school and teach
them all over again. Don Zimmer said, “you’d be surprised how many games are lost on
the bases”, and that’s very true.
Interviewer: “Bonehead base running.”
Right—dumb, dumb.
Interviewer: “You’re not a large person, were you a singles hitter, line drives?”
No, I could hit to all fields, whichever they pitch to ya. They always try to get me out on
the outside pitch, but I hit to all fields.
Interviewer: “You take that one to right?”
Yeah, sometimes I would try to push one to second to get on base. 20:24 I tried
everything.
Interviewer: “Did you bunt? Did you bunt to get on base?”
Yeah, once and a while. You always have to do something different.
Interviewer: “I saw in the record books you have home runs by your name. Were
those—“

7

�Yeah, the one thing—they made the big mistake was we didn’t have the snow fences like
you have in the—those home runs were inside the park home runs. Seven home runs
inside the park, that’s crazy. 20:52
Interviewer: “That’s a lot.”
It’s what we said—we should have had snow fences where they would be two thirty or
two fifty and where you could really hit a home run and jog around the bases.
Interviewer: “They didn’t do that.”
No, that was the one big mistake that they made
Interviewer: “Were there some women in the league who hit real home runs, over
the fence home runs though?”
The only ones that you could hit in the stands were Grand Rapids if you were a left
handed hitter, but the rest of it—they were all inside the park home runs, which is crazy.
21:29
Interviewer: “Fun to watch.”
They were running and they were trying to get the ball to get them out.
Interviewer: “You were obviously very fast. Did you win races as a youngster
running against boys?”
I ran races on the playgrounds, fifty-yard dash or the hundred-yard dash and that was fun.
Interviewer: “You ran faster than the boys?”
Yeah, you know I won the decathlon when I was a youngster and you had to have five
thousand points and I had four thousand six hundred and ninety one and I threw the
length of the field with a baseball and I got a thousand points for a baseball throw. 22:11
Interviewer: “That put you over the top.”
Well I had a—at that time, when I was young, I had a strong arm. When you’re young
you can do a lot of crazy things.
Interviewer: “And you think you can do even more.”
I don’t think I could do that now.
Interviewer: “Ok, you were an infielder?”

8

�Yeah, I played second base and in Michigan I played third and short and then I played the
outfield the first few days because Clara Schillace was our— one of the four women they
picked and she was out center fielder, but she was a school teacher and she could only
come in the week-end because she was still teaching school, so I played the outfield the
first few days and then one of the girls got hurt and I played second and she never got it
back 23:06
Interviewer: “when you started playing second base, at that time did you know how
to make the pivot play? You had to learn it.”
Yeah, I could make it because I played shortstop—it was easy.
Interviewer: “You knew what had to be done.”
I knew what had to be done, yes.
Interviewer: “But most of your career you played second base?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “I’ve always thought that one of the reasons you want a second
baseman with a strong arm for the double play?”
Yes, that first card show shows that—that was an action shot where I played. That was
actually throwing a double play ball.
Interviewer: “But you also have to go out and get the ball from the outfielders and
make some strong relay throws.” 23:54
Yeah, I played, I think, eight games and didn’t make an error.
Interviewer: “That’s good, so you’re an all around ball player. You get a lot of
recognition for your base stealing.”
I can’t say all those things because it makes me feel funny to say that.
Interviewer: “I’ll say them, because first of all, as I said, you’ve got to be a hitter
and you’ve got to have a good eye at least, that’s the key to being a leadoff hitter.”
24:27
You know, I can’t repeat that enough times to say how wonderful that league was for all
of us. Here we were kids of seventeen and now we’re in our eighties and we’re still
getting along and having a lot of fun with each other, which is fantastic.
Interviewer: “That’s great. Who was the toughest pitcher you faced?”
Annabelle Lee, she was a left-hander. She had a kind of special—you know, the rotation
of the ball. I don’t think she fanned me, but I didn’t hit as well against her as I did other
people. 25:14
Interviewer: “The ball moved a little?”

9

�Yeah, the movement in there and you know hitting is timing and she would throw my
timing off. She had a crazy slow pitch and then she would throw the fast and it’s timing,
everything is timing and she disrupted my timing.
Interviewer: “Now, I have a question about pitchers. Was there a pitcher that was
more difficult to steal against than other pitchers?”
Again it would be lefty because she had a good move into first base.
Interviewer: “Much harder, but you stole against about all of them?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “One year you stole two hundred and one bases.”
I just went nuts that year, I just had it going and I was like the energizer, you can’t quit. I
stole mostly because even when we were behind and I got on second, if we were two or
three runs behind you get a run in and before you know it you’re back in the ball game.
26:29 When they say you shouldn’t steal if you’re behind, that’s crazy, you steal
whenever you can because you can still score and you can get a run here and a run there
and peck away and before you know it you’re tied. You can steal whenever you get a
chance, I feel.
Interviewer: “But you don’t want to get thrown out.”
No, you gotta be sure you’re gonna make it if you’re behind, that’s for sure.
Interviewer: “And I should say that you stole two hundred and one bases and that
was out of two hundred and three attempts—all year long you got thrown out only
twice?” 27:08
Ya.
Interviewer: “You don’t happen to remember who threw you out or how you got
thrown out?”
Ya, Bonnie Baker threw me out once and I’m not sure about the other one. Bonnie Baker
was the one, and -------could have been the other; they were both all star catchers.
Interviewer: “That’s an incredible record, it really is.”
You know, I can’t believe that sometimes either. I can believe it when I wake up in the
morning sometimes.
Interviewer: “I can say it, that’s an incredible achievement. You played 1943, 44,
right up to 50?“
43,44,45,46,47,48 and 49, six all star games—teams.

10

�Interviewer: “While you were playing, the rules were changing. The bases were
further apart.”
That didn’t bother me. Well, you know it didn’t bother me, they said that they did it
purposely, but I didn’t know that that’s what they did to try to stop me from running. I
didn’t know that until I read it. I really didn’t know that. 28:31 Ignorance is bliss, right?
Interviewer: “You just kept running.”
I just kept running and I never knew that they did that. I read that on a card and I
thought, “I didn’t know they did that”.
Interviewer: “They also changed the rules for the pitcher so the pitcher could throw
more—slowly raised the pitchers--” 28:57
When Max Carey became out president, he was a baseball man, so he wanted baseball
and then they went to overhand and sidearm.
Interviewer: “Did that affect your—“
No
Interviewer: “didn’t affect your hitting really either?”
No, I liked baseball better; you got more time to look at the ball. With fast pitch they’re
right on ya and you gotta be ready. Everything is timing and you gotta be a pretty fast
swinger with the softball. 29:28
Interviewer: “Right, the swing is different for baseball.”
You know these guys are doing this—why are they monkeying around with their bat
doing this and that—just wait and you’re right there ready.
Interviewer: “Get set and be ready.”
Just be ready every time.
Interviewer: “Pretty simple. Are there things a leadoff hitter has to do
differently?” 30:00
Well, you gotta make sure you get on base so the other people can bring you in. The
main purpose of your job is to get on base.
Interviewer: “Do you take more pitches?”
You take more pitches and usually I always took the first pitch. One of the boys would
say, “you always take the first pitch”, and I said, “my job is to get on first base”, and I’d
never seen the pitcher before and I like to see what they’re throwing.

11

�Interviewer: “And you still got two more strikes?”
Right.
Interviewer: “As they say and particularly for you, “a walk is as good as a hit”, it’s
as good as a triple.”
Better than that sometimes. 30:39
Interviewer: “Those years you were playing, did you get into the playoffs, into the
championship?”
Yeah, my first year we won the championship in 1943 and we won the championship in
1946 when we played fourteen innings against Rockford and we won 1-0 as a
consequence of—I got a base hit and stole second and tried to steal third, because they hit
the ball to right field, I scored with a terrific slide. It was coming from right field and I
was coming from third and I had a slide away from the tag. A very close play and that
was the ball game. 31:25
Interviewer: “that had to be—one to nothing, fourteen innings, who were the
pitchers?”
We had sixty-five hundred people at that game. Carolyn Morris was pitching the no
hitter for nine innings and when somebody got a hit he took her out. We always thought,
“good, get her out of there”, and then he put this Mildred Deegan in and I said, “this
game is ours” when he put her in and we did, we beat her.
Interviewer: “You could hit her or get on base?”
I got on base and that was the ball game.
Interviewer: “You stole second, it’s almost—it’s not a hit and run if you’re on
second.”
They thought it was a hit and run, but it wasn’t. 32:07 I started to steal third and she
hit—I told her to take one pitch for me, that’s all and I never told them before, but when
I tip my cap give me that pitch and I’ll get to second. I never did that before. They could
hit and do anything you wanna do and I would go when I felt it was time to go. 32:34
Interviewer: “201 out of 203, you had to be pretty confident you were going to
make it.”
Yeah, yeah, I was just a kid and when you’re a kid you don’t have any nerves.
Interviewer: “Any other games? I know another game I want to ask you about.
You once stole seven bases in one game.”
I don’t remember that one.

12

�Interviewer: “Well, the book says you did. They said that was the record for the
league and that’s incredible.”
Well you know, if you got the ability to do it, you do it.” 33:19
Interviewer: “It makes sense to me. Now, you played until 1950—you didn’t play
in 1951?”
I played until 1950 and then I went to the Chicago league and then Battle Creek got a
team, so they scouted me and then I went to Battle Creek to play.
Interviewer: “So that’s where you were in 1951, you left the league.”
In 1952 I went to Battle Creek.
Interviewer: “Why did you leave the league in 1951 to go to Chicago?”
Because we lost our franchise in Racine and we were done. We started losing fans and
we lost our franchise, so a guy came in from Chicago and he scouted Joanne Winter and
me, so we went to Chicago. 34:08
Interviewer: “By that time you’d been playing and stealing a hundred or two
hundred bases a season for seven years. Did your legs start to bother you? You had
to be taking a beating.”
Well, I had the hip problem there for a little while, but it was ok.
Interviewer: “So you were still a base stealer right up to the end, came back to your
last year?”
I came back to Battle Creek and my last game was in 1955 in Arizona and then I went
back to softball. 34:41
Interviewer: “That was it for baseball?”
Yea, that was the last year that I played.
Interviewer: “In Battle Creek, were you injured when you played there that last
year?”
No, I left because—I don’t want to get into that.
Interviewer: “Not even with the camera not running?”
No, there was a reason why I left and I don’t want to go into it.
Interviewer: “Ok, that’s your privilege. What happened after baseball?”
After baseball—I had been working for this fella when I was in Racine and then he asked
me if I had any money and I said, “a few bucks”, and then I went into business with him.
35:36

13

�Interviewer: “What kind of business?”
We made parts for aeronautical, automotive and electrical parts and so I did—a small
business like fifteen or twenty people you wear many hats. I did the payroll and did the
purchasing, inspection and billing, whatever there was to do, we did. I was there from
1952 until 1972 and then I came into Phoenix, to Scottsdale. 36:17
Interviewer: “You retired. Did you cash out of the business?”
Yes
Interviewer: “What was the mans name?”
The name of our business was Apex Machine Products, Inc., Racine, WI. My business
partner was Paul Douglas and he was ninety-one years old and he was my best pal. He
was a very good friend and my best friend. 36:44
Interviewer: “A good partnership?”
A great partnership.
Interviewer: “That’s good, that’s good. You went back to softball after baseball.”
Ya, well I played all sports, I played basketball and I bowled and I play golf.
Interviewer: “How long did you continue playing ball of one sort or another?”
I played until 1955. From 1943 until 1955.
Interviewer: “Ok, and softball after that?”
No, I was done in 1955, which was the last softball game I played in Phoenix. 37:21
Interviewer: “Did you miss it?”
Of course, I miss everything.
Interviewer: “ I understand that. Now, did people who knew you later know that
you had been a—“
You know, they had a write up in the Arizona paper about me playing ball and it was on
the front page of the Arizona Republic and the guy across the street ran over and said,
“God, I didn’t know you played ball”, like I was going to advertise it. Nobody knew that
we were ball players. It was over really until the movie came out and after that things
went crazy and everybody wanted our ball playing days and all that. The movie really
brought a lot of publicity to all of us. 38:21
Interviewer: “Did you like the movie?”
Yeah, I liked it, but a lot of the stuff wasn’t true. No manager would ever come in and
urinate and we never kissed sailors or threw at the fans, we never did that, but the

14

�telegram about somebody being killed that was true. There was a lot of it that was true.
Hollywood, they embellish everything. 38:54
Interviewer: “Once the movies out, fans rediscover you.”
Ya, more or less we all rediscovered.
Interviewer: “Do you get invitations to speak to groups?”
I still get baseball cards that people want signed and they send me blank cards. We never
sign blank cards. They had the Ted Williams card and I get a lot of those. Then they
send me a 9x12 pictures and we sign those. I get two or three a week for signatures and
autograph. 39:33
Interviewer: “I don’t understand the Ted Williams card, what is that?”
Did I bring my purse? Ted Williams made cards of ten of us and they told me to bring
some cards, so this is it.
Interviewer: “Ted Williams put this card together? There you are and your
record.”
That’s where I read about them extending the bases to try to stop me from running. You
might as well cut my legs off. 40:22
Interviewer: “That would finally stop you, although I’m not sure you wouldn’t
learn how to run on your hands and keep running anyway. That’s a nice card and
maybe we can get a shot of that before we’re through. Now people look at the
women’s league—“
You know it’s surprising, we had—the room was full of people and I thought, “Where
did they come from?” Tim must have put something in the paper about having
autographs because there’s no sidewalk out there. Where did they come from?
Interviewer: “They heard about it.”
Yeah, they came and boy there was a ton of people that came in there. I think it’s
wonderful because they—I get a letter from a few guys that say, “I didn’t know your
league was out there. I wish I could have seen you play ball”, and these are from men. I
wish you could too, but it’s too late. 41:30
Interviewer: “Do you hear from young girls?”
Yes, they’re writing a thesis or something and I send them clippings from the paper and
they appreciate that.
Interviewer: “Do you speak to groups?”

15

�Yes. I don’t do it any more, but we use to go to church things and golf, at the golf
courses and different places. They really enjoyed the women, playing ball, they really
did. 42:19
Interviewer: “Have you ever thought of yourself as a pioneer?”
Yeah, I told Dottie White, I said, “You know, you don’t ever talk about the girls that
were here from the first four teams. We really were the pioneers and you came after us”,
so when we had a reunion they had the girls there from 1943 and 1944. I said, “if it
wasn’t for the girls in 1943 and 1944, 1943, actually the first four teams, if it wasn’t for
their ability and deportment, you wouldn’t be here today”. 42:55 We actually paved the
way for them.
Interviewer: “You were the true pioneers.”
1943 teams were the real pioneers.
Interviewer: “Are you a feminist?”
Yes, aren’t you?
Interviewer: “Absolutely.”
The women never get the breaks that the men do. Look at golf, the men if they win a
tournament they get a million dollars and when a woman wins it, she’s lucky if she gets
three fifty. To disparage a girl, that’s awful. I give Billie Jean credit when she said,
”we’re not playing unless we get the same amount as men do at Wimbledon”, and by
god they get the same amount as the men do. 43:49 Do you think that’s ever going to
happen in golf? No way.
Interviewer: “You’re right.”
It’s not fair; they play just as hard and work just as hard as those guys do.
Interviewer: “And you took the abuse physically to play, just like the men did.”
You know they get the money and if they don’t get paid, they don’t play. We played
when we were hurt. 44:20
Interviewer: “Would you have played for free?”
Yes, we all would have played for free. Just to be out there playing in front of the public.
When we played amateur it was free. We had our own glove and we didn’t get paid.
Interviewer: “It’s about the game.”
That’s it, it’s about the game, we really loved the game, there’s no kidding about that.
Interviewer: “I jumped over it, but Jim reminded me and I need to ask you just a

16

�little bit about spring training before the season started. You went to Cuba and
played there—lets talk about how you got ready for the season.” 45:14
Well, we went to Wrigley field for spring training and they hit grounders and we batted,
you know regular spring training like the men have. You played catch and you hit
grounders and fly balls to the outfielders and the pitchers—we got in shape running and
doing exercises. We had great spring training.
Interviewer: “While you were playing they went to different places for spring
training including one year in Cuba.”
Ya, Max Carey instigated that because he was from Florida, so in 1947 we went to Cuba
and had spring training there and they went wild over the women. We had twenty-five
thousand people and the Dodgers were playing and they couldn’t figure out why they
didn’t have all the people, but they said, “baseball feminine, they’re over there watching
the women” and we had to be escorted to the ball park because those crazy—they love
blonds, man they love blonds and we had to have the security people escort us to the ball
park because they would steal your glove or anything. In fact when we were in South
America and it was the time when Simalsa was---and his son—Dotty Schroeder was a
good looking blond with pig tails and he said to her, “anything I can do to you let me
know”. He meant “for you” and we razzed her and said, “hey Dottie anything we can do
to you?” Anytime she got up to bat we really razzed the daylights out of her. That was
funny. 47:12
Interviewer: “That’s a good story. Any questions from back here? You went to the
Cooperstown ceremony?”
Yes, but I didn’t go when they had the statue because it was a bad time for me. I did go
when they had the first one, but not when they had the statue.
Interviewer: “How do you feel about being in Cooperstown?”
Wonderful, you know first they were just going to show us where people wrote them a lot
of letters that the women deserved to be in Cooperstown, so all our names are on a plaque
and that’s going to be there forever, so that’s wonderful and we got a little recognition
anyway. 48:05
Interviewer: “And now there’s an exhibit that talks about the league.”
And we got the statue, so that makes it extra special.
Interviewer: “So there will be a separate Hall of Fame?”
Well, I think some of the girls deserve an individual, but for all of us it’s great. I think
it’s ok for all of us to be in there. It’s wonderful. 48:23
Interviewer: “Well deserved and I thank you very much.

17

�18

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                  <text>All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. History Department</text>
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                  <text>The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports.</text>
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                  <text>Sports for women</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Harry Kutten
Length of interview (1:07:28)
(0:00:00 – 0:08:11) Background
Family (0:00:34 – 0:08:29)
 Father and mother born in Russia, father came from Odessa, mother from Belarus
(0:00:42)
 Father left Russia before 1913 for the U.S. in hopes of bringing his wife and three children
to the United States, he already had family in the United States
 Father was hired by the International Shoe Company as a foreman in St. Louis, Missouri
 Father is of Russian origin, came to the United States and settled in St. Louis, Missouri in
1913 (0:01:27)
 Father was a skilled shoemaker, was hired by International Shoe Company as a foreman in
St. Louis (0:01:48)
 The war broke out in 1914, ending all forms of communication with his family
 Paternal grandmother raised father’s children (0:02:05)
 Mother married a wealthy man in Belarus, stayed in Russia through the Revolution, came
to St. Louis to stay with her sister in 1924 after members of her family died, came to the
country illegally (0:02:55)
 Parents married in 1924 (0:06:14)
 Harry Kutten was born in 1925, was only child of parents. Had a half-brother and halfsister, both now deceased (0:06:19)
Childhood and education (0:08:29- 0:10:31)
 Grew up in St. Louis (0:08:17)
 Went to elementary school, and was a promising young artist, and won a young artists
award with the Washington University School of Fine Arts. Attended Washington School
of Fine Arts every Saturday until graduation (0:08:52)
 Enlisted in the Navy while in high school and went to war, and returned to the Washington
School of Fine Arts when he returned (0:010:11)
(0:10:47 – 0:15:44) Enlistment and Training
Motivation for enlistment (0:10:47- 0:11:20)
 Had heard of the tragedy of Pearl Harbor, and felt “astounded” that the U.S. had been so
wide open to an incident like that (0:10: 42)
 Cited the influence of Hitler and the burden on England to maintain a democracy, he felt
“someone had to do something”, he felt obligated (0:10:56)

� He wanted to enlist, particularly because his family had been affected by war (0:11:13)
 His mother objected to his enlistment, because she had already lost much of her family to
war (0:11: 26)
Enlistment (0:11:20- 0:13:56)
 Enlisted during high school in the fall, before his draft age in 1943
 He enlisted rather than waited to be drafted so that he could choose which branch of the
military he wanted to serve in (0:12:00)
 Chose to enlist in the Navy “for selfish reasons”. He didn’t want to live in a foxhole, and
live off of rations. He wanted to have three meals a day and a warm bed at night (0:12:
21)
 Had no previous experience with boats (0:12:43)
 He was given the responsibility of managing the rest of the trainees, though he was
younger than them (0:13:17)
 His duty was to control the route of traffic from St. Louis to Farragut, Idaho (0:13: 57)
Basic Training (0:13:56- 0:15:44)
 Was inducted in St. Louis, and sent to Farragut Naval Training Station in Idaho for basic
training (0:13:56)
 Took a train ride that passed through Montana to get to Idaho, was impressed with the
views of Montana, desired to spend some time in the future in Montana (0:14:00)
 Winters in Farragut were “extremely cold” at 30 below zero (0:14:23)
 Stood guard at night, putting on layers of clothing
 Basic training involved six weeks of straight exercising
 Training involved a swimming requirement, with a minimum of 60 yards (0:14:51)
 Had a greater chance of surviving the pull of sinking ship if you could swim 60 yards
(0:15:19)
 Was given liberty, then began active duty on a ship (0:15:42)
(0:15:44-0:48:27) Active Duty
(0:15:44- 0:18:00) Beginnings
 Joined a merchant ship that went across the ocean, ended up in New Caledonia, France
(0:15:52)
 Beautiful weather during sailing, many people were sick (0:16:17)
 Sailors would chew on raw potatoes to stave off hunger (0:16:35)
 Got to New Caledonia, assigned to the USS Montpelier (CL- 57) (0:16:45)
 Was assigned to be a signalman (0:17:06)
 Stationed near the Solomon Islands (0:17: 40)
(0:18:00 – 0:23:15) Conflict and battle

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Bombarding Japanese installations in the Solomon Islands (0:17:25)
Ship was sent to enemy battle scene almost immediately (0:17: 39)
Ships were 10 miles away, zigzagging through the water (0:17:58)
Japanese ships were shooting, causing water spouts (0:18:32)
The USS Montpelier chased off enemy ships, there were no battleships at the time of this
conflict (0:18:45)
Mostly surface ships were involved in this conflict, no aircraft (0:19:30)
The ship returned to Pearl Harbor, where men stayed in Hawaii hotel (0:19:52)
Men were granted liberty before joining a large flotilla of ships (0: 20:11)
Created Cruiser Division 12, in section, following the admiral (0:20:16)
The flotilla included battleships, destroyers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, and aircraft
“Was grateful to be in such an enterprise” (0:21:06)
Flotilla left on a mission going to Guam, Saipan, and Tinian (0:21:16)
Many of the planes did not return (0:21:39)
The aircraft searched for the missing ships, but did not immediately turn on the lights for
fear of being spotted by Japanese submarines (0:21:54)
Admiral Second in Command gave orders to turn on the lights, everyone in the fleet
cheered because they did not want to lose their ships (0:22:17)

Health Issues (0:23:15 – 0:23:40)
 On the way to Guam, Siapan, and Tinian he developed a pain in his right side (0:22:59)
 Doctor thought it was appendicitis (0:23:21)
 Was given an enema, and pain was relieved (0:23:33)
(0:23:40-0:36:15) Mission
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Went into Saipan, Guam and Tinian (0:23:40)
Saipan had the largest number of enemy troops
Provided fire support to the troops already landed (0:24:06)
Troops would send messages to the ship and tell them where to send shells (0:24:18)
Before ships fire, it was custom to ring a bell. Once, a bell did not ring, Harry was standing
over the rail of the ship, when the guns went off (0:24:42)
Hot flash sent Harry back, Harry went deaf, couldn’t hear the officer's command (0:24:45)
Harry was sent to a position in the deck board after this incident until the hissing in his ear
dissipated (0:25:13)
Harry then went into fire control (0:25:52)
While at Saipan, they were sent to battle in the Philippines, where General MacArthur was
going to shore. Harry’s fleet was backup, and protected Navy supplies (0:26:13)
Speaks of Kamikazee attacks (0:30:01)
Anchored in Subic Bay (0:32:00)
Was given liberty on the island (0:32:26)
Given liberty out to see to avoid a typhoon (0:32:40)
Fell off dock, between launch, was pulled up by a friend (0:33:17)

� Was in the middle of a typhoon in the China Sea (0:34:16)
(0:35:15- 0:48:27) Daily Life on ship
 Enjoyed the Navy, said “I’d never had it so good” (0:35:15)
 Was offered chance to go back to the U.S. to go to Annapolis, declined offer (0:35:30)
 Ship was sent to Okinawa (0:36:25)
 Cousin came to visit (0:36:54)
 Became Admiral's secretary, and was a backup for the communications department
(0:37)12)
 After Japan surrendered, ship was sent north to Hiroshima, and support a hospital ship to a
naval port (0:38:04)
 Volunteered to go across the bay to carry a message in a pouch (0:39:04)
 Witnessed the devastation of the atomic bomb (0:41:10)
 “Surprised at the power of this one bomb” (speaking of the atomic bomb) (0:41:14)
 Arrived at a POW camp, where he saw a number of Americans, and he turned over the
paper messages he was to deliver (0:42:21)
 The ship left for home, men were given souvenirs, and a number of photographs were
taken (0:43:07)
 On way back, heard that the Indianapolis had been hit, so their ship took precaution to not
turn on any lights (0:43:35)
 Went through the Panama Canal to New York City (0:44:03)
 Took train to Chicago, in 1946, and was discharged (0:44:14)
 Had liberty in Japan. He enjoyed it, thought it was lovely, thought of going back at times
(0:44:37)
 On the way back, his unit was part of a test in which they blew up another atomic bomb to
see the effect (0:45:22)
 Had seen what one bomb had done, and was not so curious about what the atomic bomb
would be like, he stayed below deck while others watched the atomic bomb explode
(0:45:49)
 Enjoyed sea duty, but preferred excitement outside of military life (0:47:16)
 Witnessed a lot of poverty, and felt glad to be an American (0:48:27)
(0:48:27-1:06:42) Post Service
 Went back to St. Louis (0:48:42)
 Finished high school and enrolled in Washington School of Fine Arts (0:48:54)
 After earning his degree, went with buddies to Paris, the government was offering
schooling (0:49:18)
 Bought a one way ticket to Paris on a merchant ship (0:50:18)
 Went first to Amsterdam and then took train to Paris (0:50:39)
 Spent year in Paris, took a train to Rome to view art, was greatest experience he’d ever had
(0:50:55)
 Wrote a letter to his mother for a ticket to get back to the States (0:52:30)
 Helped his father as a tailor. Father said “Only good artist is a dead artist”, father wanted
him to have a trade (0:53:08)

�
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Regrets not being an artist, learned a trade to help his family (0:53:40)
Met future wife, she lived in Michigan, traveled to Grand Rapids, Michigan (0:54:06)
Enrolled in Western Michigan, earned a Master’s Degree (0:54:39)
Was hired by Kendall College of Art and Design, retired at age 65 (0:54:15)
Navy was a “great” experience, despite what he saw (0:55:09)
Went to Sears and Roebuck Co., after father died, the family business was not very
successful, and earned teaching certificate in Chicago (0:56:06)
Went to Israel after saved up vacation time (0:56:51)
Was interrogated while traveling in Israel (0:58:51)
Because of Jewish identity, felt like he had to go to the Wailing Wall to represent all of the
Jewish people who didn’t make it (0:59:14)
Stayed in Israel for six months, and wrote a resignation to Sears, staying he wanted to stay
in Israel (0:59:56)
Met his half-brother in Israel, whom he hadn’t seen in 15 years (1:02:10)
Signed up for the Israeli home guard, because he thought he would be in Israel for awhile
(1:05:03)
Returned to the U.S., but made several trips back to Israel (1:06:42)

End of interview 1:07:28

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              <elementText elementTextId="404913">
                <text>Image</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="404915">
                <text>Otto Kuxhaus WWII collection, RHC- 57</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="38">
            <name>Coverage</name>
            <description>The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="404916">
                <text>World War II</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="44">
            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="404917">
                <text>eng</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="404918">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="42">
            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="793826">
                <text>image/jpeg</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1029638">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
      </elementSet>
    </elementSetContainer>
  </item>
</itemContainer>
