437 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/caa188fc71e9fb6b1124d5ea22846247.pdf 2179ef5b16bed36e913364bf53265431 PDF Text Text G · eral ~velopment Pia Eri& ownshi , Michi a �IV ark A Wyck ff 400 Everett Dr. .lansln& Mich. 48915 . FROM THE Lli3HARY OF .elanning & Zoning Center, Inc. " . .. growth cannot possibly come at once any more than a seed can spring into a tree over night. Unless the pattern is set and followed, proper growth can never materialize . The alternative is to pay the price in crime, juvenile delinquency, inadequate schools, inadequate parks, and worst of all, inadequate human beings . .. " Justice Pau l L. Adams, Mich igan Supreme Court December, 1974 General Development Plan Erie Township, Michigan Adopted November 11, 1974 by the Erie Township Planning Commission Approved November 12, 1974, by the Erie Township Board Approved December 12, 1974, by the Monroe County Pl an ning Commission Johnson, Johnson & Roy /inc. Planning/ Landscape Architecture ��LIST OF ILLUSTRATIONS Man-Built Features Map Landscape Zones Map Planning Districts Map Bay Creek Illustration Rural Residential Development Example Major Street Plan Communities Facilities Map Erie Township Center Land Use Guide Half Way Creek Land Use Guide General Development Plan Regional Context Historical Map of Erie Township Population Change for Erie Township Glacial Deposits Streams of Erie Township Hydrology Map Piezometric Water Level Map Soils Map Soils Summary Vegetation IV 7 9 11 15 17 21 23 31 33 35 41 43 47 56 57 59 60 62 63 65 Natural Determinates Regional Transportation Corridors Transportation Utilities 66 68 69 Recreation/Open Space Systems Possible Development Strategies Bedrock Topography Overburden Thickness 74 71 73 76 77 �TABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction General Development Plan for Erie Township 3 Community Goals Summary Landscape Zones Planning Districts Investments in Public Facilities Implementation of Planning Guidelines Design and Development Guidelines 5 6 8 Basis of the Plan for Erie Township Summary Regional Context Social and Economic Trends Agriculture in Erie Township The Natural Environment The Human Environment Three Possible Development Strategies Appendix Geology Vegetation Types Population Housing Economy Government Zoning Areas Land Use Planning Standards Projected Development Capabilities Questionnaire Results Bibliography ,,,----- 10 20 25 31 37 39 40 42 51 52 67 74 75 76 78 80 82 88 90 91 92 93 99 100 101 V �, tty (! I ; Township Center Q_ ~/Yi;--:. ,C .._ d l- �INTRODUCTION The following General Development Plan is the first prepared for Erie Township, Michigan . It was prepared at this time because the Township Planning Commission realized that Erie Township is now facing several very serious problems concerning growth and development. The flooding of the Lake Erie shoreline, the threatened destruction of a rural way of life because of real estate speculation, the growth of inefficient and costly "strip developments" along major highways these are just a few of the problems the Township must solve in the next few years . The content of this plan is the result: of many meetings of the Township Planning Commission reviewing the consultants proposals; of citizen discussions at information hearings; and of community surveys. Considerable time has been spent to make sure this General Development Plan reflects the needs and opportunities of Erie Town.=;hip . The General Development Plan, properly followed, will help the Township solve these problems. Just as importantly, it will help Township residents foresee and solve other problems which may arise in the future. It would be a mistake, of course, to assume that the changes and development outlined in the plan will happen automatically. The planning process, with regular involvement of residents, must continue in Erie Township for the plan to be effective; it must be understood by most residents in the township and be put into action through their common sense and their willingness to work hard . The alternative is to permit unplanned growth, thus wasting tax dollars, requiring higher taxes, and falling short of the "Quality of Life" that Erie residents have a right to expect through good township government. �No plan of this size will continue to be fully applicable, so as the years pass and attitudes change the residents of Erie Township may be called upon to adjust the plan. The plan, therefore, has been designed to be flexible . The main ideas of the plan and its general framework should remain constant for Erie Township for many years to come, although certain details of the plan may become outdated. These details can, therefore, be changed without greatly affecting the plan's main ideas. It will be the duty of the Planning Commission and the citizens of the Township to preserve the main ideas of the plan and to change the details when necessary. To do this, not only the plan itself must be understood - although that is important - but, also the reasons behind the plan must be known. Everyone involved in the planning process must become familiar with soil types, groundwater levels, and social and economic trends affecting the Township. Everyone must know enough about planning, and enough about the Township, to know which parts of the plan to keep and which to alter under changing circumstances. It is for this reason that both the "background material" for the plan and the General Development Plan itself are included in this planning report. The first section covers the plan giving specific recommendations on how to guide development in Erie Township, based on present knowledge of the Township . The second section of the report is the Basis of the Plan for Erie Township, it contains the background data that forms the basis of the plan. It shows what the Township is like, and indicates what limitations the Erie Township environment puts on development. It gives the reasons for particular recommendations made in the General Development Plan, and it contains the information Township residents will need to reevaluate the plan. There is also an Appendix to this report, following the Basis of the Plan for Erie Township . The Appendix contains technical information on the natural environment of the Township which is more detailed and is intended to provide technical information from which a deeper understanding of Township geology and vegetation can be obtained . Township residents reading this report should recognize that there are some factors affecting Erie Township which the Township is not in a position to control. The Township must rely on the state, for instance, to pass legislation protecting farmland from development pressures . It must rely on the county for certain kinds of help in installing sanitary sewers. The General Development Plan has, therefore, had to take into account different ways in which a single event might occur. It calls for one pattern of development if sanitary sewers are installed in the Township, for instance, and for another pattern if such sewers are not installed. This may seem vague, but it is the most appropriate approach in light of the Township's limited control over certain decisions. 2 ��7 4 �COMMUN ITV GOALS During the planning process, the people of Erie Township identified several major goals to guide development planning for their community. The goals were developed over a period of time as residents came to understand the Township, its problems, and the limits imposed by the human and natural environment on efforts to solve those problems. Most of these goals can be achieved by careful planning and by implementation of development guidelines. Some goals will be easier to achieve than others, though, and some will have to be balanced against each other in particular situations. The community goals presented here were established upon the attitudes and desires of the residents of Erie Township. Questionnaires, surveys and public meetings were utilized by the Planning Commission to obtain the community's wants and aims. Many meetings were held by the Planning Commission discussing the wording and final determination of the following community goals: a. To make planning a local community effort to control the Township's own destiny, rather than submitting to county, regional, or state control. b. To create a pleasing environment for living in Erie Township with a variety of housing types for all tastes and incomes, taking into account environmental limitations on building and the slow growth projected for the community. c. To preserve farming as the main industry in the Township, and to protect the Township's rural atmosphere. d. To use tax dollars efficiently by avoiding duplication of services, and to put government on a sound financial basis. e. To orient community expansion in an east/west direction around the Township Center of Erie and around the subdivisions along Halfway Creek, and to otherwise discourage scattered development. f. To creatively utilize the Township's historic and natural resources in accordance with their character and adaptability. g. To consolidate commercial services where a demand for them already exists, rather than allowing businesses to develop in scattered spots or strips. h. To allow industrial growth where it will least conflict with surrounding land uses, and where public utilities will be most readily available. i. To restrict future development along the Lake Erie shoreline and in the floodplain to water-related and/or f load-proofed uses. 5 �Methods of achieving some of the goals are apparent, but others may be accomplished in unexpected ways. One efficient use of tax dollars, for instance, is to discourage scattered development. Development concentrated in a few areas can be served more efficiently by water lines, sewers, postal service, and even by police and fire departments. Future development should also be planned for areas where sewer lines can be installed inexpensively near existing development. Other indirect ways to achieve community goals also exist. SUMMARY The General Development Plan identifies three landscape zones in Erie Township, based on the natural and man-made features . These three landscape zones are located in different parts of the Township; they look different from each other, and they are suitable for different kinds of development. For the most part, the plan calls for characteristics of the three zones to be preserved and emphasized . The plan also uses the three landscape zones as the basis for further subdivision into five planning districts. The five planning districts are based on the natural and man-made environment in Erie Township, social and economic trends, and the goals expressed by the local community. The planning districts serve mostly to concentrate development in certain parts of the Township and discourage it in other parts. The purpose is to allow growth only where the environment is suitable for it and where it will not conflict with other more valuable uses of the land. For growth to take place in Erie Township, certain investments in public facilities will need to be made . The plan suggests necessary investments and establishes priorities among them. The plan also deals with the implementation of development guidelines, covering four ways in which planning recommendations can be turned into Township realities. In doing so, it describes certain duties of the Township Board and the Planning Commission in this process. Finally, design and development guidelines for the Township Center of Erie and the Halfway Creek area are treated in somewhat greater detail. These guidelines are presented in the form of sketches and diagrams to describe their potential. 6 �SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TWO FAMILY RES IDENTIAL HOMESTEAD .. COMMERCIAL IND USTRIAL PARKS, RECREATION, RESERVES PUBLIC AND QUASI-PLIIUC [=:J AGRICUl TUPAL AND VACANT □ill""l SCHOOL ELECTRIC GAS - TRUNK LINE GAS- LOCAL WATfl G=d Island : ·-- I « 8UUED TELEPHONE CABLE Norfll Cape nd TRANSPORTATION (ROADS) - REGIONAL LOCAL COLLECTOR SECONDARY ~ MAN-BUILT FEATURES 1 Mlle 7 �r LANDSCAPE ZONES Erie Township is divided by natural patterns and by transportation networks into three broad but distinct zones. Each zone, as outlined on the adjoining landscape map, has its own landscape; each is set off from the others by a major highway or highways, and each has a different potential for development. Zone I lies in the northwest corner of the Township, to the west of Telegraph Road and to the north of Temperance Road. This area is mostly agricultural, with a gently rolling landscape that is found nowhere else in the Township. Zone I also has more trees than any other part of the Township, and it has soils which, with certain limitations, are suitable for development utilizing septic tank faci Iities. Zone II lies largely between the 1-75 Expressway and Telegraph Road in the Township. This is a very flat zone, and it is dominated by major highways, railroads, and transmission lines which cross the Township diagonally. Buildings in this zone appear as major landmarks when seen against the background of the flat, seemingly endless landscape. Although most of the area in this zone is used agriculturally, it also contains the Township Center of Erie, several school complexes, and a natural area around Halfway Creek. It is within this zone that the Township could adopt several different patterns of development. Soils here are not suitable for septic tank operations, but public sewer systems brought into this area would allow development to occur. Zone 111 lies east of the 1-75 Expressway and is dominated by the shoreline of Lake Erie. This is a wet, marshy zone, located mostly within the Lake Erie floodplain. The organic soils here are not suited for septic tank operation, and require foundations to be of special design. Also, nearly the entire area is occasionally flooded by Lake Erie. Very little development can or should occur in this zone. What is the importance of these zones? Why include them in the plan? First, they indicate some natural limits for development, and suggest kinds of development which are appropriate for different areas. Also, the three landscape zones represent a natural resource of the Township - a visual natural resource. Properly managed, they can break up the monotony experienced by the Township resident or traveler entering the Township from the north or south_ Instead of a constant, uniform landscape the Township can express its sharp contrasts: wild, empty marshland along the Lake Erie shoreline; a flat sweep of rich farmland in the heart of the Township; a quiet historic community in the Township Center of Erie; rolling countryside covered with a green canopy of trees in the northwest corner of the Township. 8 �9 �In order to do this, the plan calls for the preservation of the orchards and woodlots in Zone I. These trees not only protect birds and wildlife, they also set off this area from Zone 11. In the second zone, the plan calls for development, which is now scattered along the sides of highways to be concentrated in two planning districts, leaving the rest of the zone for farming. In Zone 111, the plan calls for development to be restricted with only water related recreation allowed to be developed. Most of the zone will be left in its natural state. To discuss development and restrictions on development, it is necessary to examine the five planning districts called for by the plan. PLANNING DISTRICTS The General Development Plan divides Erie Township into five planning districts. These include one agricultural planning district and one shoreland/wetland planning district, which are to be preserved for open space uses, and three districts in which various sorts of development will be encouraged. The five planning districts are shown on the accompanying map. The boundaries of these districts were not arrived at by accident. To a large extent they retlect the boundaries of the landscape zones, which is to say they reflect the natural features of Erie Township. Also, they reflect patterns of existing development in the Township, community goals and social and economic trends in the area. Planning District A has about the same boundaries as Landscape Zone I, lying in the northwest corner of the Township. This district is unlike every other part of the Township in that some of the soils here are suitable for septic tank operation. For this reason, residential development in the Township should be encouraged in this district, even before public sanitary sewers are available to the Township. Development must proceed carefully, however. Only 30% of the soils here are suitable for septic tanks, and in some places, where the soil is sandy and bedrock lies within three feet of the soil surface, septic tanks are likely to pollute the groundwater of th'e area. Therefore, development in this district should proceed, but only on an individual review and permit basis. Each site must be tested for suitability for septic tank operation before a permit is issued. The irregular pattern of soils in this district suggest the logic of cluster development. Residential clusters can fit more appropriately than other patterns into a landscape otherwise used for agriculture. The woodlots and orchards in this district represent a visual resource for the entire Township and should be preserved. Creeks in this district need protection from pollution. They feed into larger streams which flow through the rest of the Township and which, if polluted, will harm the quality of life for people in districts downstream. 10 �RAUC/1 RD i,'_~ ..... \l~ ~ (.':~\ r,l _,ij I, ~-- L--- ;:~-,J - -_ - - - - -&, ,.~. ~ !\ ", ...... ___ Y of LUNA PIER 11-': h,_ ~ .,, :, i mm p- LAKE ERIE \ ' . -Ntxfll Moum•, Bey .,. · ) jJ~~=~~f')~; '; Indian lsklnd V (, \J') \ ~ ~, ~ l l \ '- / \ ~ "°'" '(:., I I PLANNING DISTRICTS 11 �Commercial development already exists in Planning District A, in the form of three commercial facilities along Telegraph Road north of M-151. Additional commercial facilities should be concentrated into a small "commercial zone" so an increase in the number of access points to Telegraph Road can be avoided. This will reduce conflict between cars entering or exiting the highway and through traffic on Telegraph Road, resulting in increased safety. Planning District B, one of three planning districts within Landscape Zone 11, is located in the southern part of the Township along Halfway Creek. Soils here are not suitable for septic tank operation, but development should still be encouraged in this district after public sanitary sewers have been installed. Although the district, along with the others in Landscape Zone II, is located on some of the better agricultural soils in Michigan, there are several reasons for recommending its development. First, it already contains two subdivisions along Halfway Creek, scattered commercial buildings along Dixie Highway, South Mason Consolidated Elementary School, and a small mobile home park. Second, Planning District B lies directly in the path of urbanization extending northward from Toledo and will experience its growth pressures. Third, development can be concentrated in this district, leaving the land north of Benore Road free for agriculture . Finally, and most important, it is likely that public sewer service will be extended into this area from Bedford Township and possibly from Toledo. The plan recommends that sewer service from the Bedford Township sewage treatment plant be extended initially to the area south of Sterns Road and west of the Penn Central railroad where additional residential development should begin. Later, when the sewer line is extended eastward across the Penn Central railroad tracks, residential development can occur around the elementary school and in the area around Halfway Creek. The Sterns Road/Benore Road area should mark the northern boundary of this residential development. Some commercial development is possible in Planning District B, though growth trends in Erie Township do not indicate a great need in this regard . As the population grows, however, the development of "convenience" shopping faci Iities in this district cou Id serve nearby neighborhoods. The commercial development should be consolidated into one or a few areas, rather than being scattered along major highways. 12 �Industrial development is also proposed primarily in the southwestern part of the Township at two separate locations. One of the proposed industrial areas is located west of Hagman Road, south of Halfway Creek, east of the Penn Central railroad tracks, and north of the State Line. The other area proposed for industrial development is located west of Dixie Highway, south of Benore Road, extended west of Dixie Highway to the Chesapeake and Ohio (C & 0) railroad tracks, and east of the C & 0 tracks and the west line of the Township. Further expansion of industrial uses north of Benore Road to Little Lake Creek can be allowed when the areas above approach complete development or if it can be demonstrated that the entire parcel up to Little Lake Creek can be developed as a unit. A small area of industrial development is contained in the General Development Plan located to the northwest of the Township Center at the northeast corner of the intersection of Telegraph Road and Erie Road. As development occurs in Planning District B, however, the Township will have to add certain community facilities such as streets and parks. A public safety building is proposed in the vicinity of Sterns Road and Suder Avenue to serve existing and future development. At the same time, highway improvements should be undertaken to strengthen the east/west orientation of growth along Halfway Creek . Planning District C, also within Landscape Zone II, extends eastward from the Township Center of Erie along Erie Road and Bay Creek to Summit Street. Because soils restrict septic tanks in this district also, development should occur only after public sanitary facilities are installed. Development in this district is recommended because both the Township Center of Erie and the Mason School complex are located here. Development related to them provides a focus for life in the entire Township. Also, the recent construction of highway interchanges at the I-75 Expressway and Luna Pier Road, and at the 1-75 Expressway and Erie Road, creates a potential growth corridor running in an east/west direction paralleling a community goal to encourage east/west development in the Township . Public sanitary sewer service to this area from the City of Luna Pier may be possible in the future . Once public sewers are installed, residential growth in this district should be encouraged around the Township Center of Erie and around the Mason School complex. Some commercial activity should accompany it with convenience shopping facilities concentrated within the Township Center of Erie and highway-related service facilities within a highway service area near the Luna Pier Road interchange of 1-75 Expressway. 13 �The Township should work to develop the Township Center of Erie as a focus for life in this district. Its historic buildings and street pattern should be preserved. Setbacks should be required along the streets and planted with trees. Erie Road should be narrowed between Telegraph Road and Summit Street, sidewalks should be installed, and traffic should be rerouted to the south around the Township Center . Every opportunity to make the Township Center a place attractive for people to live and walk in should be pursued . One such opportunity to increase the quality of life in the Township Center is to preserve and expand the natural area around Bay Creek . Eventually, a park system could be developed to provide a cool , shady area of natural beauty as a focus for the Township Center and enhance its environment. The park system should not be confined to the Township Center of Erie, but should wind along Bay Creek and provide a green walkway spanning east/west the width of Planning District C. In order to prevent traffic congestion and parking problems in this district, parking facilities in the Township Center will need to be supplemented. Locations are suggested next to the Township Hall and behind the commercial property on Dixie Highway . 14 �... .r, - , 1-- I ~ I -~ 1{ l ~ i JI 15 �The Agricultural Planning District is the third planning district located in Landscape Zone 11 . Good soils and a long growing season combine to make this district one of the most attractive locations for agricultural production in Michigan. It is the policy of the Comprehensive Development Plan to preserve this area for agricultural use. Other types of development in this district are discouraged and directed, instead, into Planning Districts A, B and C with recommended public sewer facilities. Within the Agricultural District, residential development should be restricted to homes on lots of 20 acres or more. Industrial and commercial development should be prohibited . However, it is intended, under the plan, that a land owner in the district may convey a parcel less than 20 acres to one or more of his children for their residential use. Sites of 20 acreas or more will not prevent future subdividing of land for homesites when sanitary sewers are available . These 20 acre sites are large enough for agricultural uses. Since soils here are generally unsuitable for septic tank operation, an·d since no public sewer is planned for this district in the near future, it is doubtful that much residential development can occur here, even on large lots. Farmers in this district should be encouraged to take advantage of new tax legislation, only recently passed by the Legislature, which allows agricultural land to be taxed preferentially- as opposed to residential, commercial or industrial land. This can reduce tax pressures on farmers to sell agricultural land for development. Other legislation now pending may help the Township in other ways to preserve agricultural land. A major community goal is to preserve farming as a way of life within the Township. This is still another reason to guard against development in the Agricultural Planning District. 16 �New residential development maintaining rural character ~R'N l&D pr;, '<'.~!::Aj!ON Ce: r 13Pe}'YAeo M, ,.,..e.e. - -,~-r-5 t Bl7 ~ Ai- CPl:J-.l q",ACE 1.iE.w 'lot-'!½ · L•t-161-e: OR ~e.J..i ~ow . ' ,, ,SPL,/~ I-All-~ :if\tJfE:I? 10 :;,cve.t.cp• ·EN 5o..il-l1T$ ofi!: I.II~ /Aa$,) .. .-·. .. ·- • • Pt'1'EMTIAL PeVELRMe.n1-l!:#! C~61t-lAt.. F~~~iT~ C.Afi ACH!t::v~ t.$ MN-Ir t.iv;E ~· rs ,~1:£ c,,-..c.wy.iG te6 ~t;, ~ f-l A ...'l'l>IC,.!L, P.;te..Cf'Vl!:. tj: i4US, Ko~ U.f..v CA~ ~E ap fOt R!Sll:V'.flON AHD t6~1C t:r 'R=.. Cl.JJ$~ OF NB!v' f+~~ Qt,l C~ 17 �The Shoreland/Wetland Planning District has about the same boundaries as Landscape Zone 111 and lies entirely to the east of 1-75 along the Lake Erie shoreline. Organic soils in this district are poor for holding building foundations; septic tanks endanger the district's water quality, and the area is flooded periodically by Lake Erie . For these and other reasons, nearly all kinds of development should be prohibited in this district. The Shoreland/Wetland Planning District can be of benefit, however, not only to Erie Township, but to the entire state of Michigan. The General Development Plan calls for this district to be developed as a water recreation area serving southeastern Michigan and northern Ohio. Because much of the district is already contained in a private hunting club and a State Game Preserve, a basis for a regional recreation area already exists. Other public and private land in the district can also be converted to recreation uses. While most of the district should remain undeveloped, a limited amount of commercial development to serve water recreation purposes and housed in buildings which will suffer little damage from flooding, is appropriate . Marine supply stores, boat repair services, and similar businesses are examples. Care will need to be exercised to assure that commercial development does not pollute the water resource. There is a small area in the Shoreland/Wetland Planning District, located along Substation Road and Bay Creek Road - east of the 1-75 Expressway, which is not wholly within the Lake Erie floodplain . While this land might be considered to be adaptable for residential development, the land is cut off from the rest of the Township by the 1-75 Expressway and it would be inefficient and expensive to supply it with sewer services, water, and other public facilities . This land clearly relates to the rest of the Shoreland/Wetland Planning District and should be governed by the same development guidelines. There are a number of areas such as "Lost Peninsula," "McLeary's Point" and "Moraine Point" which contain residential development. Portions of these areas lie within Lake Erie's floodplain. Accordingly, the plan intends that concentrations of existing residential structures be permitted to remain. The plan intends that improvements and additions must be protected to prevent flood damage. In case of disaster, rebuilding of the structures must be subject to floodplain restrictions. The plan also intends that additional residential development not be encouraged in these areas. The preservation of this district may increase tourism in Erie Township in the not-too-distant future. As pollution in Lake Erie is cleaned up, and the Lake becomes safer for human contact, this district will have more and more value as a recreation area. The district also contains natural features which deserve to be protected in their own right These, then, are the five planning districts and the development guidelines for them. The Township's role in translating these guidelines into reality is described in the two following sections dealing with investments in public facilities and the implementation of development guidelines. 18 ��INVESTMENTS IN PUBLIC FACILITIES As development proceeds in Erie Township and population growth occurs, the Township will need to make certain investments in public facilities to serve its people. The General Development Plan identifies Township investment in transportation facilities, public sanitary sewers, an additional Township public safety building, new schools and parks . Transportation investments should be anticipated according to the Major Street Plan on the accompanying page. This Plan contains most of the features of the Monroe County Transportation Plan for the Township with some changes proposed as follows : a. Temperance Road should be extended as a county primary road eastward from Telegraph Road across the Chesapeake and Ohio Railroad right-of-way to Dixie Highway and connect with its eastern portion; b. Traffic should be rerouted to the south of Erie Road around the Township Center of Erie , so that Erie Road between Telegraph Road and Summit Street will be fairly narrow and free of through traffic; and c. Summit Street should be improved where it joins the ramp off 1-75. The first priority for Township investment in transportation, though, is to expand the establishment of setbacks along streets designated on the Major Street Plan . The width of these setbacks is indicated on the Major Street Plan map. Interstate highways, for instance, should have a 300 to 350 foot right-of-way; that is the highway itself, its shoulders, and the land in public ownership on both sides of the highway should measure 300 to 350 feet, from one side to another. Similarly, rights-of-way along U.S. and Michigan Highways should measure 150 to 204 feet and 120 feet along county primary roads, 86 feet on collector roads and that street rights-of-way in the Township Center of Erie should be 66 feet wide. This does not mean, of course, that buildings will be able to be placed right at the edge of the public rights-of-way. The Township should have ordinances requiring buildings to be set back specific distances from the right-of-way line. It is worth noting that the existence. The Township widths, rather than those Proposed rights-of-way also 20 proposed rights-of-way are much wider than the rights-of-way now in should require development to respect the proposed right-of-way existing on lots along major streets and roads in the Township. need to be correlated with existing conditions wherever feasible . �LAKE ERIE PROPOSED RIGHT OF WAY WIDTH - INTEJtSTATEHIGHWAYS (300-350') - U.S.&. MICHIGAN HIGHWAYS (1.50-204') - coUNTYPRIMARYROAOS _ _ _ CQLLECTORR™-DS •• •••••• TOWN CENTER _ _ _ ,.o,oSEO (120'+) (86') (66') (120' +) ~ �Public sanitary sewer investments will have a major effect on how fast development will proceed in Erie Township . The General Development Plan calls for the first sanitary sewers to be installed in Planning Districts Band C. The public water line should also serve these districts. Basic designs for these two systems already ex ist. An additional Township Public Safety Building should be planned to serve residents of Planning District B, who are not adequately served by existing public safety facilities in the Township Center of Erie. Containing a fire and possibly a police station, it should be located near the intersection of Suder Avenue and Sterns Road near the Halfway Creek residential area. A possible site is along the Hooper Run Drain on Suder Avenue where the building will be well situated and the banks of the Hooper Run Drain will be preserved and protected in public ownership . This building is to replace the Morin Point Fire Station which will not be able to meet development needs and which is flooded from time to time. Other community facilities, such as public meeting and emergency shelter, could be included in the Public Safety Building, transforming it into a Township Community Building for Planning District B. Although schools in the Township will have to be expanded as the population grows, the land on which the present schools are located is sufficient for future needs. Educational consultants and school officials can indicate where new buildings and additions to existing buildings should be placed on existing school land . Parks in the Township are currently inadequate and will have to be greatly expanded to meet future needs. A community of 4,500 people needs a total of 35.5 acres of recreation land. About 18 of these acres should support "passive" recreation (walking, picnicking, etc .) and the remaining 17.5 acres should be for "active" recreation (sports and active games) . Erie Township has a population in excess of 4,500: the 1970 census counted 4,494 people and the population has grown since . Yet the Township has only 28 acres of developed and programmed recreation land out of a total of 43.5 acres of public park land according to the Monroe County Recreational Land Acreage Survey . The play areas around the elementary schools add some recreation space to this total, but the Township still needs to expand its parks to serve its future population adequately. The need for extra recreation land will become even greater, of course, as the Township population increases . It can be argued that the Shoreland/Wetland Planning District will provide more than enough recreation land for Erie Township. But people - especially young people - need recreation land near their own neighborhoods where they can walk to it. The Shoreland/Wetland Planning District serves a regional need for recreation and cannot adequately satisfy local recreation needs. 22 �• Township Hall ~ Mason Elementary '.ulJ C, LAK. Middle & High School Elementary School F/;-IJ:. ■ Generating Plant 0 Fire Station m Sewage Treatment -···- Electric -··- Buried Telephone Cable - - Gas-Local - · - Existing Water Line --- Proposed Water Line 23 �One partial answer to the Township's recreation needs would involve land along primary drains and streams in the Township. The General Development Plan recommends that this land be developed into long, strip-like parks . If extensive enough, they will more than satisfy the Township's "passive" recreation needs and serve another purpose, too. By providing open space on each side of major streams, they will reduce the rate of surface run-off into those streams following rain storms keeping the streams from filling so rapidly with water and helping to prevent floods. The "extra" passive recreation land produced by this park system will be of benefit in a variety of ways. 24 �IMPLEMENTATION OF PLANNING GUIDELINES There are four major ways in which the Township can implement the planning guidelines of the General Development Plan: 1. Township government can adopt policies for development which reflect the development plan; 2. Land use regulations and controls (e.g. Mobile Home Park Ordinance, Zoning Ordinance) can reflect the purposes of the plan; 3. The Capital Improvement Program and Budget can be drawn up in accordance with the plan and made part of the annual Township budget; and 4. Private groups and individuals can work to implement the plan. Following a description of these four types of implementation, the role of the Planning Commission in the implementation process is reviewed. 1. Development policies are those policies which should be adopted by the Township Board and the Planning Commission in order to carry out the recommendations of the plan. Both the Planning Commission and the Township Board will need to make many decisions on development ordinances, individual requests for action, and other matters which directly affect physical development in the Township. General development policies will make these decisions easier to make. First, the Board and the Planning Commission should adopt neighborhood residential policies to guide development. Some suggested policies are as follows: a. Until sanitary sewers are installed in the Township, residential development will - be encouraged only in the northwest corner of the Township, in Planning District A. Building permits will be issued here only after analysis of the soil shows that each site is suited for septic tank operation. b. Once sanitary sewers are installed, residential development will be encouraged in Planning Districts B and C, and discouraged in the Agricultural and Shoreland/Wetland Planning districts. c. Residential neighborhoods in Planning Districts B and C will receive first priority in terms of water distribution, sewer service, and other residential services. 25 �d. High priority will be given to developing parks to serve these two community planning districts (Halfway Creek-Erie Tmvnship Center), and the Township will acquire easements and property for that purpose. e. New streets developed to serve residential neighborhoods will be designed to discourage through traffic. f. The Township will do everything feasible to encourage the development of the community planning districts (Halfway Creek and Erie Township Center) areas as social and recreational units and encourage people in these communities to form associations dedicated to improving living conditions in the neighborhoods. g. The Township will develop and adopt a subdivision ordinance which permits clustered residential development. Also, the Township will update the zoning ordinance to include specific districts for multi-family housing developments, mobile home development, cluster housing, and a shoreland/wetland planning district. h. In order to keep the residential zoning _ ordinances up-to-date, the Planning Commission will review all ordinances affecting neighborhood development. It will make sure that they incorporate the most progressive and modern methods for achieving the goals of the General Development Plan, and it will recommend any needed changes to the Township Board . i. The Township will continue to mount a Township-wide attack on blighted buildings. It will act to remove deteriorated and abandoned · buildings wherever they occur, and will use code enforcement, neighborhood citizen action and private redevelopment to prevent blight. A typical township residential development with public sewer and water facilities (not located in Erie Township). 26 �The Planning Commission and the Township Board should adopt commercial development policies and agricultural development policies as fol lows: a. Residential, commercial and industrial development will be discouraged in the Agricultural Planning District . b. The Township will encourage farmers to take advantage of tax incentives established by the Michigan Legislature to aid in preserving agricultural areas. c. The Township will encourage a limited amount of commercial development in two highway service areas: one located at the Luna Pier interchange of 1-75 Expressway, the other located at an appropriate site on the west side of U.S. 24 (Telegraph Road) north of Erie Road. These service areas may contain gasoline stations, drive-in restaurants, and other businesses serving highway traffic. d. The Township will encourage a limited amount of commercial development in community service areas in Planning Districts A, B, and C. Drug stores, hardware stores, grocery stores, and similar businesses will be permitted in these areas. e. The Township will encourage a limited amount of commercial development in the Shoreland/Wetland Planning District to serve people engaged in water recreation in this district. f. All of the codes and ordinances shall be administered in these areas to provide appropriate setbacks, avoid traffic congestion, and preserve the visual quality of the area. Businesses will be required to have signs which fit in with the visual environment, and unsightly buildings or activities will be screened from view. 2. Land use regulations and controls, such as the Mobile Home Park Ordinance and the Zoning Ordinance, represent still another way in which the Township can implement the plan. Zoning is probably the major type of land use regulation for this purpose. There are two major changes which should be made in the Township's zoning ordinance. First, the present zoning map should be changed to conform with the five planning districts proposed by the General Development Plan. Residential, commercial and industrial zoning should be confined to Planning Districts A, B, and C, and should be located in accordance with the plans as indicated above. Also, an Agricultural Zoning District and a Shoreland/Wetland Zoning District should be established in accordance with the plan. 27 �The second major change in the zoning ordinance involves the abolition of "cumulative" zoning, which permits "higher" zoning uses in "lower" zoning areas . In this way conflicting land uses can become established side by side, to the detriment of aesthetic and land values . One means of insuring the character and quality of development is to utilize a site plan review process in the revised zoning ordinance. Other changes in the ordinance will be necessary to resolve inconsistencies and remedy inadequacies. The Township will probably want to make these changes gradually, rather than all at once. Three phases of change are recommended: Phase I would consist of immediate revision of the zoning map based on the General Development Plan as adopted by the Planning Commission and the Township Board. During this initial phase, basic revisions in the zoning ordinance text should be made, a Shoreland/Wetland district should be added, and other revisions as necessary. This phase should begin immediately. Phase II would change the zoning over the next five years. These changes are harder to predict than those in Phase I, but many are likely to evolve from individual requests for zoning changes . Zoning changes which "fit" with the plan should be approved; those which go against it should be denied. For example, a request to change zoning in a residential area from commercial to residential should be granted, while in the Agricultural Zone, a change from agricultural usage to commercial should be denied . The net effect of many small decisions on zoning changes, correctly made, will be to strengthen the plan. Phase Ill includes zoning changes to be made after five years. Even harder to predict than those in Phase 11, these changes depend on population growth and might best be postponed until stage. Commercial development, for instance, is not currently in Planning District B, but become necessary when the population in that district has increased considerably . Thus, district should not be zoned for commercial uses until after the population growth has begun the area can support the proper kinds of businesses. this will the and Whenever possible, Township zoning ordinances should be developed in coordination with those of the Monroe County Planning Commission. Common forms, common standards, and common terminology should be utilized . Township zoning should also be in harmony with the zoning practices of Bedford Township, LaSalle Township and the City of Luna Pier, so long as it is consistent with the General Development Plan. 28 �3. The Capital Improvements Program and Budget will enable the Township to plan for needed public improvements and pay for them with proper financing methods. "Capital improvements" are generally defined as permanent improvements which have a value of more than $5,000 and a life of more than 15 or 20 years. A "capital improvement program" is a program for capital improvements to be undertaken over a period of five years and contains annual budget projections. The capital improvement budget, in turn, should be part of the annual Township budget adopted by the Township Board. Each capital improvement budget should contain (a) a description of different capital improvement projects, arranged according to priority; (b) a statement of the basic reasons for each project and its priority; and (c) a statement of the amount each project will cost, and of how it will be financed. Many important ·capital improvements in the Township will be made by the County or the State with little Township control over them. But there are several kinds of improvements the Township can determine. When considering these, the Township should give priority to those which affect Pl,;mning District A, Planning District B around the Halfway Creek settlement, and Planning District C, especially around the Township Center of Erie. The following kinds of improvements should receive priority: a. Street improvements including right-of-way acquisitions and street tree plantings, especially in the Township Center. b. Improvement of the drainage areas and acquisition of park land along creeks and streams such as Bay Creek. This can be done through purchase of land and/or easement rights. c. Sanitary sewer installation in Planning Districts Band C. The Township should negotiate with the County and with Bedford Township over sewer service for Planning District B, and with the City of Luna Pier over sewer service for Planning Districts A and C. d. Continuing expansion of water distribution in the Township. e. Land acquisition for, and later construction of, a new public safety building (fire station, police station and community house) somewhere near the intersection of Sterns Road and f. Summit Street, Acquisition of land for additional parking facilities in the Township Center next to the Township Hall and behind the commercial property on Dixie Highway, and the paving and landscaping of these parking facilities. 29 �4. Private groups and individuals can also help turn the General Development Plan into a reality for Erie Township Both groups and individuals can read the plan carefully, work for its adoption by the Township Board and the Planning Commission, and tailor private plans for development to follow its guidelines. The role of the Planning Commission 1n implementing the plan is a unique one . The Planning Commission should a. Annually review the General Development Plan policies and recommend necessary revisions and additions to the Township Board for formal adoption. b. Annually prepare a prior ity list ing of proposed cap ital improvements, based on the Township's fiscal year. This capital improvements program has been described above and should be presented to the Township Board for inclusion in the Township's annual budget. 30 c. Develop a standard approach for reviewing petitions to rezone areas of the Township , and standard procedures for reviewing subdivision plans presented by developers. It would be helpful to develop check sheets for these processes. Also, the Planning Commission should expand its coordination with the Monroe County Planning Comm ission in this regard, and should continue to utilize its staff. d. The Planning Commission should explore different ways to finance development and capital improvements in Erie Township. State, federal, and private programs for financing should all be explored. e. T he Planning Commission should develop and carry out a continuing education program for citizens to acquaint them with planning matters in Erie Township . �DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES The following policy plans and sketches present development guidelines for the Township Center and for the Halfway Creek area in somewhat greater detail. Wh il e these development guidelines need not be followed precisely, they portray the general character that the Township can achieve in its development. TOTAL ACRES EXIST. SINGLE FAMILY MULTI-FAMILY PARK OPEN SPACE INDUSTRY 60 FUTURE 45 54 23 3 ERIE TOWNSHIP CENTER 31 �ERIE TOWNSHIP CENTER 32 �TOTAL EXISTING Fl1'URE w ::, z w > < A TOTAL EXISTING FUTURE □ "'w 0 ::, <I) HALF. WAY CREEK 33 �This, then is the Erie Township General Development Plan. The basis for the plan and the reasons behind its many recommendations are reported in the next section, The Basis of The Plan for Erie T ownsh ip. A full color version of this Plan is included at the back of the report. 34 �LAKE ~ ERIE RESIOENTIAL FLOODPLAIN SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS APPLY CITY of LUNA PIER [::=J c:::::J - MOBllE HOMES RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL MULTI FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL c:::::J HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL c::J c::J c:J PARKS.OPEN SPACE & TREES [ =::J [JZJ C::J WATER RELATED COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL AGRICUL TUAAL O FLOOD PLAIN AGRICULTURAL LANO AREAS SUITABLE FOR SEPTIC SYSTEMS POTENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL REQUIRING SEWER SYSTEM OR EXCEPTIONALL V LARGE LOTS UTILITY LINES ELECTRIC COMMUNITY FACILITIES BUILDING MAJOR ROADS SCtiOOLS --- -No,111 Moumt1~ Boy Guard Jslond ,., SI ,.. ~$41/o GENERAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN - ~ 1 Mile 35 ���SUMMARY Because effective planning for Erie Township must be based on a thorough understanding of the Township itself, the General Development Plan is based on this survey. It attempts to collect all the relevant facts about Erie Township in a single document. An understanding of these facts is necessary to any adjustment in the General Development Plan. The survey covers several sets of facts relating to Erie Township. It examines the regional context of the Township, community goals expressed during the planning process, social and economic trends, the special place of agriculture in the Township, the natural environment of the Township, and the human (or man-bu i It) environment. Because al I of these factors , have an influence on development in Erie Township, all must be considered during the planning process. The Basis of The Plan for Erie Township also includes a brief discussion of several different planning strategies. The General Development Plan combines these, but the emphasis upon one or another strategy may want to be altered in the future. The strengths and weaknesses of the different strategies also need to be taken into account during the planning process. There are some facts about Township geology and vegetation which are not included in The Basis of The Plan because they have a more direct bearing on Township development and planning. These are included in the Appendix to provide a slightly more technical discussion of some aspects of the natural environment. 39 �REGIONAL CONTEXT Erie Township, the "Gateway to Michigan," is a small rural area caught up in the forces generated by two large metropolitan areas and a Great Lake . The Township is greatly influenced by Toledo, Ohio, which is directly to the south; by Detroit and Monroe, to the north; and by Lake Erie, to the east. One concern in se1ting forth guidelines for development is to meet Township goals and needs while at the same time aiding the Township in fulfilling its regional role . Toledo is probably the most important regional force affecting Erie Township. The Township depends on Toledo to meet most of its shopping needs and to provide employment for its people . The Township is a member of the Toledo Metropolitan Council of Governments and is considered by the U.S. Census to be a part of the Toledo Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area. Toledo's influence also creates problems for the Township. Its growth pressures have spilled over into Erie Township, resulting in scattered residential development on land better suited for agriculture. Other development has occurred in the Lake Erie floodplain, causing serious problems during high water flood periods. Detroit is important to the Township primarily because it forms one end of a transportation corridor running through it connecting Detroit to Toledo . Three major highways, five railroads, and several gas and electric lines run across the Township diagonally from northeast to southwest cutting the Township into thin strips. Isolated from each other, their pattern is in opposition to east/west development, including the electrical transmission lines leading west of the Consumers Power Company generating station in Luna Pier . Strip development occurs along the major highways creating further problems for the Township . Lake Erie influences the Township especially during high water periods, when east winds cause lake water to flood land along the shoreline. 40 �1 ;' ;' __/' _ Lake Lake REGIONAL CONTEXT St.Clair Erie 41 �SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC TRENDS In order to plan for the future of Erie Township, an understanding of its past and present and the ways in which it is changing is necessary. This section examines Township history, growth trends and economic trends . Township History Erie Township is consistently characterized in history as a rural, lightly settled area. Agriculture and transportation have nearly always been important in the Township while trade and commerce have usually been insignificant At one time there was a chance that the Township might develop into a trading area, but the settling of a boundary dispute between Michigan and Ohio in 1835 dashed the hopes of local businessmen, and agriculture remained the dominant industry. Historical forces have also destined the Township to be severed by transportation corridors connecting Detroit and Toledo . Erie Township was first the home of the Wyandot Indians, a sub-group of the Huron tribe. French explorers arrived sometime after 1671 when France claimed all the territory around the Great Lakes and were followed by French settlers from Quebec. The French settled near Lake Erie and its tributary streams and depended on the lake and the lush, inland forest for their food and shelter. The French lost the area to the British in 1763 after the French and Indian War . The British in turn relinquished the area to the Americans during the American Revolution. About 1790, the first settlement on Bay Creek was formed. In 1827, Erie Township was officially created, one of the first five townships organized in Monroe County by an Act of Congress in that year. By 1828 there were 15 houses near where the railroad bridge now spans Bay Creek, and small areas of land were under cultivation . Farm fields became larger and larger as the years passed and as farmers in the Township discovered that the soil was rich and the growing season long; in fact, some of the finest agricultural land in the state was located here. There was a period in the early 1800's in which trade and commerce in the Township promised to become more important than farming. At that time there was an intense rivalry between Monroe and Toledo over which settlement would be the outlet for trade and commerce for the eastern Michigan territory. If Monroe had won this contest, it might have become a great trading center and nearby Erie Township might have shared in its commercial success. In 1835, however, the settlement of a boundary dispute between Ohio and Michigan gave all of Maumee Bay except Ottawa Bay to Ohio. Plans to build port and rail facilities in Monroe fell through and Erie Township remained rural in nature. 42 �.. ; ~ ... t~ !:.. i;:.~:~:. z,j § t.'?: :?i~ j >,! " f 'z. ~ ;l. ! ~:;7t~~~t:'··,.s { -~ ; .,~ "\ ..:.. ? 6 · • .....",_]fi:;,;r-z·:.:'.:~:;~: :--;:;::;'.";~.:.::.::=:JDI""'- .~ ,,t:·:~), ,.. - ·o '.)/ : -~~.•.• ~~e .. ~ . ':,;"••r ,lllV•uFJ ....... '\- 43 �Transportation, like agriculture, has always played an important role in Erie Township's history. Partly because of its marsh land lake shore, which posed problems for development, and partly because of its location between Monroe and Toledo, the Township has historically been segmented by ever-increasingly developed transportation routes. Historic trails became roads, and roads became high-speed expressways. Railroads came to the Township, then electric inter-urban tracks, and these coa lesced into the main line of the Penn Central Railroad . All of these transportation routes have run in a north/south direction across the Township dividing it and preventing development of any sizable dimension from occurring. Sometimes the interference with Township development was deliberate. In 1856, for instance, when the Detroit, Monroe and Toledo Railroad track was laid one mile east of the Township Center of Erie, the Michigan Central Railroad Company found the distance to be inconvenient and tried to establish a rival community adjacent to the tracks. They constructed a depot and named the spot Vienna, but nothing further developed on the site except for a combination hotel/tavern/warehouse, also built by the company. The Township Center originally "Bay Settlement" was named "Erie" in 1835. It contains the only significant concentration of development in the Township. Another built-up area, formerly a part of the Township, is now the City of Luna Pier. Incorporated in 1963, it is now governed separately from the Township. Historically, there has been a tendency for land holding to become concentrated in the Township. The State Department of Natural Resources owns a large amount of land in the State Game Area along the Lake Erie shore, and a private recreation club also owns a large parcel in this area. Consumers Power Company owns the Whiting Power Plant and the land under its transmission corridors; the C & 0 Railroad owns 900 acres where terminal facilities formerly existed; and some families who have been in the Township for several generations own large parcels of agricultural land. 44 ��Growth Trends For a land area immediately on the edge of a major metropolitan area, Erie Township remains surprisingly open and sparsely settled. Growth pressures from Toledo do exist, however, and they will have to be accommodated in the years ahead. Present population predictions call for Erie Township to experience slow but steady growth over the next several years. I nstal lat ion of sewers and other public utilities could cause this growth rate to increase dramatically . At present, a substantial concentration of development within the Township is in the Township Center of Erie. The rest of the Township is loosely settled with farms and homes scattered along roadways . There are also a few minor residential subdivisions off Telegraph Road and Dixie Highway, and within the "Lost Peninsula" extending from Toledo up into Michigan . The rate of population growth in the Township is low. The last census, in fact, indicated ·that Township population had declined to 4,494 from 5,546 in 1960. The decrease exists only on paper, however, in that it was caused by the separation of the City of Luna Pier from the Township in 1963. It probably conceals the slow growth that may have occurred between 1960 and 1970. A better indication of recent growth can be found in the recent levels of residential construction in the Township: 1970 1971 1972 1973 16 37 28 30 dwelling dwelling dwelling dwelling units built units built units built units built This slow but steady growth is expected to continue, according to population predictions of the Toledo Metropolitan Area Council of Governments (TMACOG) and the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments (SEMCOG). The TMACOG projections are as follows : 1975 1980 5,514 people 5,854 people 35 dwelling units built per year 20 dwelling units built per year Township population growth has already created a population level in 1970 which exceeds the SEMCOG prediction for 1975. Growth rates are likely to increase even more once public sanitary sewers are installed in the Township . Sewers usually increase the subdivision of land, thus creating a greater number of building sites, usually of small size . These smaller sites can be developed more easily with conventional financing and become more attractive to new families. The General Development Plan must be sufficiently flexible to accommodate different rates of growth in the Township . 46 .... �As th e Town ship grows, it will also be necessary to guide its development to meet the needs of more types of people. Differences in income level, occupation, and language now exist among Township residents . As the Township grows, it will be necessary to meet these needs. "'0z "'a:UJ 0. 10,000, 000 9, 000,000 8,000,000 7, 000, 000 - ~ 6,000, 000 r 5,000,000 4,000,000 u.. 0 3,000,000 - .,,,,,.. ,....... - 2,000, 000 a: UJ a, :;; :::, z l, 000,000 900, 000 800, 000 700,000 600,000 S00,000 ◄ 00,000 300, 000 200,000 MO~ ROE COL INTY 100, 000 90,000 80,000 70,000 -- L..-- -- ·- :_- --- - f-- 60,000 ,o.ooo 40, 000 I/' - - BElFOF D UI BAN ZED AR• •·· ... --:;;.. - ~/ 30, 000 20.000 10. 000 ~ 0 ;;: ---- 0 M 0 N -- - --. -- E.RIE T0' ~~ !f..- 0 0 0 0 0 0 ~ ~ Source: Bureau of the Cenw1 ERIE TOWNSHIP POPULATION CHANGE Estimate 1: Monroe County Plann ing Commission, 1974 •1oss o f population due to Luna Pier detachment ""includes Bedford, Erie and Whiteford townships 47 �Economic Trends For a variety of reasons, Erie Township is unlikely to experience much commercial or industrial growth in the near future. The Township's small population and the nearby presence of industrial and commercial areas in Toledo and Monroe, are likely to combine to limit its economic growth. Township industrial activity is currently quite limited, even though the Township is located in a transportation corridor between Toledo and Detroit and has access to both highway and rail facilities. There are 1,517 acres of land in the Township which are zoned for industrial development but little development has actua lly occurred here. A unique parcel, unique because of its large size, is located along the C & 0 Railroad. The reason lies partly in the Township's lack of a public sanitary sewer system. Also, the existence of a better tax base just across the state line in Ohio makes industrial prospects in Erie unattractive. There are 1,200 acres of vacant industrial land composed of many separate parcels in Toledo waiting to be developed, and this competition is likely to limit Erie Township industrial development for several years to come. The future of commercial development in the Township is similarly limited. There is evidence that Toledo and Monroe now meet, and will continue to meet, most of the major shopping needs of Erie Township residents . In 1970, the U.S. Census reported that, of 2,005 workers living in Erie Township, 1,029 worked in the Toledo-Lucas County, Ohio area, while 771 were employed in Monroe County. Thus, over half the workers living in the Township work outside of it and, likely, shop outside of it as well. People who work in Toledo or the City of Monroe are particularly liable to do their "comparison" shopping in these metropolitan centers. ("Comparison" shopping is for relatively expensive goods, in which different brands and prices are normally "compared.") To a lesser extent, Erie Township workers are also likely to do their grocery and "convenience" shopping in the big cities, and this situation is not likely to change. The construction of two new major shopping centers in the north part of Toledo is now pending. It can be anticipated that they will take additional business potential away from Erie Township. A demand for neighborhood shopping facilities in the Township exists but is already relatively well satisfied. The 1,433 families identified in the 1970 census as living in Erie Township will support approximately 28,000 square feet of convenience shopping facilities consuming four acres of land for parking and circulation areas, and landscaping, as well as floor space in the stores. In 1973, there were approximately 15 acres of commercially zoned land being used in the Township, 11 acres more than the Township population should be able to continuously support. As the Township population grows, there may be a need for some commercial expansion in specific areas. Also, the need for commercial facilities to serve the regional highways which pass through the Township will continue; current commercial development, in fact, is largely oriented to Telegraph Road and Dixie Highway. In total, however, there is little to indicate that Erie Township will attract any major commercial activity in the near future. 48 �What is the financial capability of the Township to meet its needs? The total receipts in the Township General Fund have been increasing faster than inflation . Most of this increase has been the result of increasing Federal and State shared revenues particularly sales tax diversion and the State income tax. An increase in the property tax also added to this addition in Township revenues as has Federal revenue sharing funds. Year 1964-65 1965-66 1966-67 1967-68 1968-69 1969-70 1970-71 1971-72 1972-73 1973-74 Amount $ 45,889.76 $ 88,704.59 $ 63,728.06 $ 70,274.00 $ 96,692.00 $117,372.55 $11 7,401 .51 $125,304.48 $146,816.37 $163,640.05 The main debt of the Township is the water system program approved for the $290,000 .00 bond issue of January 1, 1973. The debt retirement program for that bond issue follows on Page 50. A review of the general fund budget for the past several years indicates that the major capital improvements have been road improvements, fire and park projects. The retirement of the water bonds now becomes an important debt. The use of bonding as a part of the capital improvements program should be limited to non-recurring expenditures of substantial cost. Bond financing most often adds 40 to 100 percent to the cost of the project. A general rule of thumb , admittedly conservative, is that the ratio of ten percent indebtedness to full taxable value of the Township should prevail. In 1973, ten percent ·of the property tax assessment of $19,236,298.00 was $192,363.00. Of course, the use of the full-faith and credit of Monroe County will have the effect of increasing the amount of bonded indebtedness that is reasonable. Obviously a high priority should be given to trunk line sewers to serve the Township Center and the Halfway Creek community. Local assessments and tap-in fees, federal and state funds should be considered for financing these sanitary sewers. 49 �The policy of the Township particularly where allocation of the shared revenues are made can have a major and determining effect upon the growth and development of the Township. In 1973, the shared revenues of the Township from Federal revenue-sharing funds, State sales tax diversion and State income tax totaled more than $75,000.00. If in the future some of these funds are allocated for sanitary sewers, this allocation will be a major determination in the increase of population and commerce in the Township . SCHEDULE OF PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST Requirements January 1, 1973 Bond Issue for Construction of Water Laterals within Erie Township Fiscal Year Interest Due July 1 1973-74 1974-75 1975-76 1976-77 1977-78 1978-79 1979-80 1980-81 1981-82 1982-83 1983-84 1984-85 1985-86 Principal Due January 1 *$ 6,075.00 * 6,075.00 5,775.00 5,275.00 4,775.00 4,275.00 3,775.00 3,243.75 2,712.50 2,181.25 1,650.00 1,112.50 562.50 *$ 6,075.00 5,775.00 5,275.00 4,775.00 4,275.00 3,775.00 3,243 .75 2,712.50 2,181.25 1,650.00 1,112.50 562.50 $47,487.50 $41,412.50 Annual Requirements July 1 $ 15,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 25,000.00 $ 12,150.00 26,850.00 36,050.00 35,050.00 34,050.00 33,050 .00 32,018.75 30,956 .25 29,893 .75 28,831 .25 27,762.50 26,675.00 25,562.50 $290,000.00 $378,900.00 *Funds have been set aside from the proceeds of the bond sale, and are in the custody of the Monroe County Drain Commission to pay the first three interest payments totaling $18,225.00. 50 Source: Carlton, Longmuir, Cooley and Hehl, Report of Examination, fiscal period ended March 20, 1973, Erie Township, Monroe County, Michigan. �AGRICULTURE IN ERIE TOWNSHIP Agriculture enjoys a special significance in Erie Township. Productive soils, a long growing season, and the general availability of water in the Township make its farmland some of the best in Michigan and, in fact, in the world. In 1973, land in neighboring LaSalle Township produced that year's world record ~orn crop: 306.6 bushels per acre. While Erie Township has not produced any world records, its farmland is very similar to that in LaSalle Township, and must be ranked among the best. The richness of Township farmland is in itself reason for it to be preserved. Additionally, the preservation of farming as a way of li'fe in Erie Township is an important goal of the community. Also, farmland demands fewer Township services than residential developments do. When agricultural land is developed into home sites, demand for increased government services are usually followed by tax increases, but the ratio of increased tax monies to the cost of services usually decreases. Thus the Township may have to spend more money to serve new residential development than such development will generate in taxes. It has been argued that agricultural land should be subdivided, especially along the mile roads, but this argument ignores the increased costs the Township would experience in providing services to the new subdivisions. Also, other land less well suited for agriculture or adjacent to developed areas would be better developed than the Township's valuable farmland. As was noted in the description of the General Development Plan, the Michigan Legislature has established tax incentives for farmers who wish to preserve their land for agriculture rather than permit its development for commercial, residential or other uses. The Township will want to encourage farmers to take advantage of these tax incentives. 51 �THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT The natural environment of Erie Township sets some real limitations on the amount and kind of development that it can accomodate . Land in much of the Township is unsuitable for septic tank operation because of low soil permeability and high groundwater tables, and in some places there is a danger of septic tanks polluting bedrock aquifers. Organic soils along the Lake Erie shoreline also have low load-bearing capacities that make building foundations difficult and expensive . The land's capacity for development, then, is not great. Lake Erie also limits development in the Township . Large areas along the shore line are subject to periodic flooding and flood hazards exist along some of the creeks and streams in the Township as well . Flooding, sedimentation, and pollution in these areas may become worse as development occurs upstream . The Township's supply of groundwater is limited - and endangered. Extensive development and well drilling on the edge of Toledo has caused the groundwater level to decline . Furthermore, the quality of the groundwater is not good in the Township; dissolved minerals, odors, and pollution make it difficult to use without extensive treatment . Pollution of the groundwater supply will increase if septic tanks continue to be installed in inappropriate soils. As previously discussed, the Erie Township environment is an excellent one for farming. The glacial soils are rich and fertile, rainfall is adequate, and the nearness of Lake Erie temper the climate and extends the growing season . Thus, the natural environment presents Erie Township with some benefits as well as some problems. For survey purposes, the natural environment of the Township can be subdivided into a number of natural systems : climate, geology, topography, hydrology, soils, and vegetation. Following descriptions of each individual element, the composite patterns they form together is reviewed. 52 �53 �Climate Erie Township's climate is highly favorable for agriculture, due in part to the Township's proximity to the western end of Lake Erie . This relationship has its disadvantages, too, however. Strong easterly winds during the winter sometimes cause the lake to flood Township land. Development plans of Erie Township need to recognize both the disadvantages and the advantages of the local climate. Erie Township's climate is humid and continental, with a winter season longer than the summer. Precipitation is usually adequate for growing crops, although a severe one-month drought is experienced during one year out of every ten. With an average of 32 inches annually, the precipitation is fairly well distributed throughout the year, with 60% of it coming in the crop-growing period between May and October. During this season, however, cro_ps require up to 96% more water than they receive naturally in the form of precipitation . This means that crops draw on water stored in the soil from snowfalls . About 31 inches of snow - the lowest total snowfall in Michigan - falls in the average year with the total for any one year ranging from 10 inches to 46 inches. Most Of the precipitation in the warm season comes in the form of showers and thundershowers. The Township suffers occassionally from tornadoes, hail, sleet, and ice storms, but these have rarely caused much damage. Lake breezes are generated where the land meets the water, carrying the lake's influence inland and making the climate milder. As a result, the first fall frost comes a week later to Erie Township than it does to more inland locations. The average growing season is 165 to 170 days, longer than any other growing season in Michigan with the exception of the Benton Harbor region . Occasionally, there are temperature extremes in the Township, with temperatures recorded at Monroe having ranged from 106°F to -21 OF. Still, these extremes are the exceptions rather than the rule . Thus, although 78% of the minimum November through March temperatures will be 32°F or below, only four days per year on the average will have temperatures below o°F . Usually the lake tempers the climate and makes it more comfortable . The lake in combination with the climate occasionally creates serious conditions for Erie Township when the winds are from other than their prevailing westwardly direction. In the winter, when cyclonic storms follow their usual route across the Great Lakes, strong easterly winds may prevail for several days increasing Lake Erie's climatic influence. If water in the lake is already high, strong easterly winds can cause severe flooding to Township lands lying in the Lake Erie floodplain. 54 �Topography Erie Township is characterized by flat featureless topography . Sediments deposited by glacial lakes covering the entire Township at the end of the last ice age produced the near ly f lat landscape we see today . The highest point in the northwest corner of the Township is about 640 feet above sea level, only 65 feet about Lake Erie. Th is produces a gradient of about 12-1/2 feet per mile, a slope of only 0.2% in the Township. The name of Flat Creek, a Township stream, reflects the flatness of the landscape that makes parts of the Township somewhat visually monotonous. 55 �Geology Geology. of the Township, when considered in detail, is complicated. Only certain geological facts, however, are of significance to this planning survey: t..>¥e GLACIAL- L ~\ DeA:?SIT5 a. The bedrock underlying the Township comes closer to the surface as one travels from the southeast to the northwest In the northwest corner of the Township, the bedrock is very near to the surface, even exposed on occasion, indicating places where foundation and sewer pipe installation is restricted. b. In places where the bedrock is close to the surface, the groundwater level is also near. There are places in the northwest corner of the Township where septic tanks should not be permitted because they would drain almost directly into the groundwater, polluting it and possibly creating health hazards for people with wells in other parts of the Township. c. The bedrock surface is very irregular . This means that even where it is close to the surface as in the northwest corner, there are areas in which development can be permitted and other areas where it cannot. d. Much of the soil in the Township was formed from clay deposited by the glaciers at the end of the last ice age. On the surface , this clay has been re-worked into good agricultural soil, but underneath it forms a stiff, water-tight layer or "hard-pan," covering the bedrock and creating poor drainage conditions. A~ e. Some of the bedrock in the Township is similar to bedrock in other parts of Michigan in which oil and gas deposits have been found. So far, however, no such deposits have been located in Erie Township. Some oil and gas deposits occur in the Bass Island dolomites in neighboring Bedford Township. -..e f. The Bass Island dolomites have been quarried in other parts of Monroe County and may be of some value to Erie Township . Because they are fairly close to the surface in the northwest part of the Township and, since they can break down easily in water, they also pose problems for construction and waste disposal in that area. g. One of the most noticeable products of the glaciers is the "beach ridge" in the northwest part of the Township. Formed by Lake Algonquin, an ice age predecessor of Lake Erie, it is important to the Township because it provides some topographical relief and visual contrast to an otherwise level landscape. A more technical discussion of Erie Township geology is given in Section A of the Appendix. 56 �Hydrology Erie Township is crossed by a number of streams, some natural and others artificially created for drainage purposes. They separate and help give identity to different land units in the Township and offer opportunity for passive recreation. But some streams present danger of flooding to adjacent residential development. The streams can be classified into three types for planning purposes: 1. Most Significant have largest watersheds have largest channel sizes and flows water flows year-round, or nearly year-round have greatest conservation and scenery potential 2. Secondary mostly tributaries to Class 1 (Most Significant) streams similar to Class 1 streams, but less significant in each respect 3. Minor ditch-like, least significant water flows only occasionally have least conservation, scenery, and multiple-use potential The Most Significant streams are those with the greatest potential for park space along their banks. Because Halfway Creek is almost large enough to be a bay of Lake Erie, it is considered more significant than other Township streams. The watersheds of Class 1 streams are located largely within Bedford Township. Since the upper reaches of the streams are most sensitive to pollution and impact from incorrect land uses, water quality in Erie Township will depend to a large extent on controls in Bedford Township. Many development problems in the Township involve water, in one way or another. Four kinds of water-related problems facing Erie Township are those related to flooding, those related to drainage, those related to groundwater availability, and those related to pollution. Flooding, of course, has recently been a serious problem for Township residents. Nearly all of the Township east of 1-75 lies in the Lake Erie floodplain which was subject to severe flooding during several recent winters. It is not determinable how frequentl y this area is 1,kely to be flooded, but the combination of a high water level and easterly winds produce conditions favorable for ~ ' """"""'° "'-"""" "'""""""° -rwr (lt.a/•'Vt-Y ~11'~/{5 ,t, f'«tffl0 57 �flooding. Records indicate that high water levels have occurred several times in Lake Erie since 1800. In 1952, for instance, lake levels were almost as high as those of the past several years. The hydrology map shows just how extensive the Lake Erie floodplain is. Drawn on the basis of information obtained during recent flooding, it reflects observations of the high water and flotsam lines during the flooding of November, 1972, aerial photographs of high water levels near the end of April , 1973, and direct field observation of the high water level on March 12, 1974. The map, then, indicates where flooding has occurred before and where it could very well occur again. The Lake Erie floodplain is not the only area in the Township subject to flooding. A storm drainage report prepared by the Lucas County (Ohio) Engineer indicates that some of the streams in Erie Township are also unable to hold the runoff from a 10-year frequency storm. Because Erie Township is so flat, these streams do not have much extra storage capacity or even a very well-defined floodplain. During severe storms and during high water periods on Lake Erie, these streams are likely to overflow their banks. The estimated water levels of Halfway Creek and the Ottawa River during particular storm frequencies are shown on the hydrology map . Drainage, generally poor in the area, is also a problem for much of Erie Township and limits its development potential. Septic tanks in many parts of the Township are fairly likely to back up during the wet season, creating a public health hazard for people who depend on them . At one time, portions of the Township drained so poorly that they were part of a vast wetland system extending through parts of Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and Ontario. The construction of artificial drains, the drilling of drainage wells and the modifications of existing streams provided most of the Township with sufficient drainage to make agricultural development possible. Now most of the wetland system is gone, replaced by farmland. The areas near Lake Erie, however, are still part of a poorly-drained wetland system and other wetland areas exist in areas of poor drainage. Groundwater availability from glacial deposits in the Township is limited. The soil in many parts of the Township is very thin, with bedrock only a few feet below the surface, and much of the area is covered with a "hard-pan." Both these factors limit the availability of groundwater. There are confined sand and gravel aquifers in Monroe County. In places these are tapped by wells, generally in areas above the bedrock "valleys" where the glacial drift (material deposited by glaciers) is thick. Several areas of thick glacia l drift occur in Erie Township, but their potential for wells is unknown. The sandy areas in the northwest.corner of the Township support a few shallow wells but have limited ability to store water because there is always a danger of lowering the water table; additional wells are probably not desirable. 58 �- .1 MAN-MADE DIKE OPEN WATER MOST SIGNIFICANT WAh:RCOl.11:SES SWAMP/ MAASH SECONDARY WATBlCOURSES lAKE fLOOOPLAtN MINOR WATERCOLRSES HALF WAY CREEK - ESTIMATED SURFACE 10 YR. STORM OTTAWA RIVER - ESTIMATED SUlfACE 25 YR. STORM HYDROLOGY ~ 59 �The sandy areas of the Township may have another use, however, as groundwater recharge areas for the rest of the Township. The evidence for this is twofold. First, the sandy areas are in the northwest corner of the Township, where subsurface water flows generally from northwest to southeast. Second, large artesian springs issue from the bedrock in places such as a large spring located on the Erie Shooting and Fishing Club property, suggesting that cavernous conditions exist in the carbonate layers and that these layers are fairly permeable. If the sandy areas connect to the carbonate strata, they may serve as conduits which guide precipitation into groundwater aquifers. If this is the case, great care should be taken to prevent contamination of the groundwater resource through these recharge areas. Groundwater from bedrock aquifers in Monroe County is already too highly mineralized for public or domestic use without extensive treatment, and further deterioration of groundwater quality would be unfortunate. Township water has a disolved solids content of more than 1,000 parts per million, usually increasing with depth. Groundwater from dolomite deposits also tends to contain hydrogen sulfide, giving it a disagreeable odor. Some impairment of groundwater supplies at the Hagman Road landfil I site has been reported (Earthview, Inc., 1973). Unfortunately, what groundwater the Township has is in some danger of being used up . The water pressure level in the Township drops dramatically from the northwest to the southeast, creating a water pressure "depression" in the southeast part of the Township. This depression exists because suburban developments in that area and high-yield wells in Toledo are removing a lot of water from the groundwater table. Even more importantly, a downward flow of near-surface to bedrock groundwater exists in most of the Township making surface contamination of groundwater possible. Pollution already exists in Erie Township: 1973 measurements by the Michigan Water Resources Commission show that the water quality of Halfway, Silver and Shantee Creeks does not meet State standards for total body contact or for warm water fish habitats. Halfway Creek has too much fecal coliform, suspended solids and nitrate nitrogen to meet State standards; other streams have additional problems. The pollutants identified so far are typical runoff pollutants, and it is likely that most Township streams are somewhat polluted by agricultural and roadside runoff. Pllii'U>Mla!ife.lC. WA11"'2- ~li"i- MAP (~IAN) CONiDllR.. l ~ A L - (/MtfJLA 19~ ) 60 L 10 ~ Lake Erie, of course, suffers from much worse pollution. A 1965 U.S. Public Health Service Report examined the vast amounts of pollutants being dumped into the lake by the Detroit, Raisin, and Huron Rivers, numerous creeks, and unsewered shore line homes. In 1965, this pollution made hazardous all forms of water contact sports near the mouth of the Detroit River, and other pollution sources made nearby lakes unsafe at times as well. How much of this pollution ?ffects the Erie Township lakeshore is not known. It seems likely, however, that lake-borne pollutants reach the area when the wind is from the north. Southerly winds may also cause pollutants from Toledo to affect the Township lake shore as well. �Soils Soils in Erie Township were deposited by glacial lakes during the last ice age. These soils are generally good for agriculture but not for development. Clay and silt soils in the Township have poor permeability and poor drainage; organic soils have poor land bearing capacities in addition to poor drainage. Still other soils are sufficiently permeable but, due to high water tables, provide septic systems with no drainage. Even in the sandy northwest corner of the Township, only about 30% of the land is suitable for septic tanks. Most of the Township lies east and southeast of a beach ridge and is covered by clayey and silty soils, while sandy soils exist northwest of it. Organic soils and alluvium (material deposited by rivers and streams) occur along some of the streams and in wetland areas next to Lake Erie . The sandy soils northwest of the beach ridge are the only ones in the Township fully suitable for septic tanks. Water tends to percolate rapidly through them, with rates of percolation ranging from 24 minutes per inch to as fast as six minutes per inch. Still, not all of these soils are suitable for septic systems. In some places, where bedrock lies within three feet of the soil surface, percolation may actually be too fast, all-owing contaminants to flow into the groundwater without adequate filtration. In other places, where water tables are too close to the surface, percolation rates are appropriate but the sewage simply has no place to go. The Granby loamy fine sand, for instance, has a percolation rate of six to 12 minutes per inch, but it occurs where the water table is at or near the surface unless artifically drained. Many tile drains in the Township help maintain a lowered water table and minimize the area in which this problem exists. Southeast of the beach ridge, and cover ing much of the Township, is a zone of clayey and silty soils with the most important, the Lenawee silty clay loam and the Del Ray silt loam, having a high silt and clay content and poor permeability. Percolation rates vary from moderately slow (24-62 minutes per inch) in the upper layers to slow (24-300 minutes per inch) in the lower layers. These soils also have poor surface drainage and a water table which is near the surface for at least part of the year. The other soils in the clayer/silty zone have severe limitations for septic systems, according to Soil Conservation Service evaluations, because of slow percolation rates and seasonally high water tables . Also, they genera ll y have fair to poor load bearing capacities and are subject to frost heave and cracking. All in all, the clayey/silty zone is less than ideal for constructior;i and development. The organic and alluvial soils which exist in the Lake Erie floodplain and along the sides of streams are also poor for development. Subject to flooding and with water tables at or near the surface, they are especially unsuited for septic disposal systems. 61 �I I L ' 0 8 -2"'to6%slopm ' 1,0t11Cun,;,llorca1oflhe10,oih""')'havc1!opc,1of l"uff)o.,2'1,. 10 mol'YI 11 0:,1(..,lllefinc,.,nd 13 Slovnlloa"' 14 0..1 Roy,ih IOOff! 15 fuhon1ilt loom 16 Todrow loamy:.and 18 Granby loamy finotond 19 SolfridgiJ loamytond 21 lcnowcc ,iltydoy loam 22 Pcwomo cloy loom C«unna10n:ly loam llountclayloa,n &lounl cloy loam {$hallow vcrrionl ) 24 75 26 27 ...... 28 Kibble very fine t<Jndy loam 29 Colwood loom JO Sloon loom 31 madolond 33 JS CltCO,,O!ed,af"G$ J6 ◄I I 62 SOILS borrowpl~ Gronby,...n:I, loamy1ubsolt Me1oa SOl'ld, coi:,...., wbsoil I -----·- �'V - ,OSSl3l.E GEDltOCt- wilt,in ,o- o: -'oc• SU ITABLEFOlt SEPTIC LAND CAP.4.IILlfY Cl.ASS Thocopc,bility clos1ifl,;o1l.,,.i,09roupingol>O<h ihal.hoWt.inogc"'°,ol...,yhowwilabl,;o~yorc fotfflOltkindsoflom,lt19. Thttosoil,c.,,.IOinfow«notimitotio...lo,rorm ..,c . ThoycMlh.sofolycuht...., ,edyoorlywirhour ony,~loltreah'nonttocontroln;noflotcon"'r,c the.oil. Tho.o,oll,hc,.,oli,..;,01ion,lhotr-.ducc,t+lachoicc of plant, or require,,_ ConMINO!ion proc;tico,, b,,,tth<tlimito•iorn.orofowc,ndrheproc1lco•cosy toapply. Clo•lc,r,dllM»l 1 orwinhc,..,1lyP>C!be!11wihf.,. ogrlculh.no. SOILS SUMMARY ------ 63 �Unfortunately, the unsuitability of many Township soils for septic tank systems has not prevent~d their installation. Monroe County Health Department regulations require that no septic tank system be installed where maximum groundwater levels or surface flooding would adversely affect the operation of the system - but they apparently have not been fully enforced. The Department allows septic sy$tems in soils with percolation rates as slow as 30 minutes per inch. In clay soils with slower percolation rates, the health officer is empowered to determine what methods, if any, can be employed to satisfy the intent of the ordinance. In other words, septic tanks have been (and may be) legally installed in areas with severe soil limitations with special filter bed materials. In planning for future development, the Township may wish to establish more restrictive regulations concerning septic systems. Development guidelines for the Township should also recognize the richness of its clayey and silty soils, many of which have been classified by the Soil Conservation Service as having Class I or Class II agricultural suitability . Vegetation Only scattered remnants of the thick forest that once covered Erie Township now exist, as woodlots in the northwest section of the Township and in long strips along the Lake Erie shore line. Orchards planted by early settlers also dot the northwest zone. Because so few natural wooded areas remain, they should be treated as a valuable resource. In addition to enhancing the Township's visual appearance, woodlots in the northwest part of the Township reduce the amount of runoff that would otherwise occur in this area thus increasing the potential recharge of groundwater in sandy areas and adding to the Township's groundwater resources. Vegetation, especially in the large woodlots, also provides shelter for wildlife. In order to maximize this value, the Township should maintain the relative isolation provided by the larger woodlots as well as linkage between the woodlots and other vegetation masses and water. Stretches of scrub vegetation along drainage ditches and small streams can serve this function as well as to stabilize the banks of streams and ditches. Maintenance of these woodlots can be encouraged by reducing taxes and developing a management program with the help of the State forestor. A more technical discussion of Erie Township community vegetation types can be found in Section B of the Appendix. 64 �y of LUNA PIER m~,s Plant LAKE t-a ERIE North ea,,_ _,.v PLANO WOODS - Oo1/Hickory -II Ill •, - TRA N.SITlONAt/MIXEO WOOD FlOODPlAIN/W S - Ook/Hld«><y/Mopl,vCotto,, IV. SWAMP/MARSH _V, ETLAND WOODS - Will wood ow/Mop1e/Co11o~ O:KHAR0S ~ 1 Mlle 65 �Natural Environment Overview Natural systems exist only in relation to each other . Soils, topography, hydrology and vegetation interact on each other and together they affect the environment and its capacity for development . These larger patterns of composite natural systems are even more significant than their individual components. Sandy soils, better drainage conditions, upland vegetation, and a slightly rising topography all occur together in the northwest corner of the Township, separated from the remainder by a glacial beach ridge (Zone I) . Similarly, organic soils, marshland and floodplain vegetation, flooding, and high water tables all occur in the Lake Erie floodplain (Zone Ill). Still a third cluster of natural characteristics defines a broad zone in the center of the Township (Zone I IA and 11 B). This arrangement of natural features suggests some possible development patterns for Erie Township that follow nature and make beneficial use of it rather than conflict with it. These patterns form the basis for the Landscape Zones discussed in the General Development Plan and tie in with patterns in the human environment. 66 �l THE HUMAN ENVIRONMENT The existing man-built environment, like the natural environment, has both negative and positive features having implication upon development in Erie Township. Several features of the man-built environment in Erie Township are: transportation facilities, utilities, schools, parks, and other local government facilities. Transportation Facilities Regional transportation corridors cut Erie Township into a series of north/south strips opposing a Township goal to encourage more east/west development. Planning for the Township will need to counteract this problem. The major highways in the Township also tend to delinerate the different natural areas. Telegraph Road, for instance, separates the northwest corner of the Township with its unique natural systems from the rest of the Township. Similarly, 1-75 forms a boundary to the Lake Erie floodplain which differs in soil type, drainage and vegetation from the rest of the Township. The most important highways in Erie Township, of course, are Dixie Highway, Telegraph Road, and 1-75. Dixie Highway, historically the first and most important route through the Township, is now third in importance, serving mostly as a local collector route between Toledo and Monroe. Telegraph Road is more significant than Dixie Highway but less than 1-75, the primary route carrying traffic between Detroit and Toledo. The construction of the 1-75 Expressway has caused an interesting change in the Township. It has shifted regional traffic from Telegraph Road, on the Township's western edge, to its eastern edge along the Lake Erie floodplain . This signals a major adjustment in the physical structure of the Township that could allow the development of an east/west corridor between Telegraph and 1-75, th.us helping to achieve a Township community goal. The current improvements to the 1-75 freeway will not change the accessibility pattern within the Township but will improve the safety of the Luna Pier/Erie/Summit Street interchanges. A major roadway change being made, however, that will affect Erie Township aevelopment involves Alexis Road in Toledo, beyond the Township's boundary line. Alexis Road is presently being extended and provided with an interchange with 1-75 providing industrial traffic in Toledo with direct access to the freeway. This should reduce the impact of such traffic on Erie Township and strengthen the basis for industrial expansion in Bedford Township and the southwestern portion of Erie Township. 67 �Railroads in the Township run parallel to the major highways. The Chesapeake and Ohio Railroad runs along the eastern edge of Telegraph Road while the Detroit, Toledo and Shoreline Railroad, the Michigan Central, and the Penn Central lie between Dixie Highway and 1-75. East/west travel in Erie Township is basically dependent on Luna Pier Road (M-151) and Erie Road in the north, and on Sterns Road in the south. These roads may undergo changes in the near future. Improved east/west routes across the northern part of the Toledo urbanized area are needed and although no specific plans have been drawn up, Luna Pier Road and Sterns Road can be expected to assume more important roles in the regional traffic pattern between U.S. 23 and 1-75. North/south travel in the Township is supplemented by Summit Street and Suder Avenue, which provide additional access to Toledo. 68 Regional Transportation Corridors �RAUCH RO. HIG~AY INTS:CHANGE 1-7S INTERSTATE HIGHWAY U,S, HIGHWAYS COUNTY PRIMA.RIES PAVED LOO.L RO,.OS PA VED - - LINPAVEO •OADWAYS WHICH PERMIT A H1GH OEGftff OF VISL"'l ACCESS TO THE PREDOMINANT CHAAACTERISllCS Of THE AREA OU£ TO ITS POSITION ROADWAYS WITH PREDOMINANT &AARIER CHARACTERISTICS ROADS WITH LINKING CHAAACTERISTICS PIUMARY EAST/WEST CONNECTO!!S LOCAL APPROACH ZONES PREDOMINANT APPROACH ZONES PROPOSED ROAD CONNECTION TO COMPUTE A COMMITTED DIRECTION OF MOVE- MENT LAKE ERIE Nori/I Al-~~ Boy -~~~TRANSPORTATION �Utilities At the present time, Erie Township has inadequate water service and no public sanitary sewer service. Because of natural limitations on septic systems in the Township, it is particularly important that the Township acquire sewer service, if development is to occur here in any magnitude. Sewage treatment facilities exist in the general area around the Township. A municipal treatment plant is located in the City of Luna Pier, to the northeast, and Monroe County maintains a treatment plant in Bedford Township to the southwest . There is also a water line that runs through the Township beginning in Bedford Township, running along Dixie Highway to Co-151 (Luna Pier Road), and along Co-151 to serve the City of Luna Pier . The possibility of using these regional facilities to provide water and sewer service for Erie Township has been documented in The Comprehensive Plan for Water and Sewage Development, proposed by Finkbeiner, Pettis & Strout, Ltd. Existing sewage treatment facilities provide the basis for two basic development districts; one district, in the southwestern portion of the Township tied into the Bedford Township treatment plant and the other, in the north central part forming an east/west development district served by the Luna Pier facility . Although water lines and sewers are the utilities of interest to this basis for the plan, there are also other utility lines in Erie Township. The electric transmission lines leaving the Consumers Power Company's Whiting Power Plant, for instance, have a visual impact on the Township which, together with several gas lines, cut across the Township and divide it into segregated land units, having an effect like that of the regional highways. Like the highways, these utility lines serve regional rather than Township needs. Schools Township educational needs are served by the Mason Consolidated School District, encompassing all of Erie Township, the City of Luna Pier and part of LaSalle Township. The District provides excellent facilities, including a high/junior high/elementary school complex at Luna Pier Road and Dixie Highway, and other elementary schools at Suder Avenue and Benore Road and in the City of Luna Pier. Another elementary school is located in LaSalle Township As the Township grows, however, more educational facilities will have to be provided. These can fit onto land already owned by the school district. The sites at Luna Pier Road and Dixie Highway, and at Suder Avenue and Benore Road, are well located and large enough to permit expansion. 70 �m Sewage Treatment -···- Electric - ··- Buried Telephone Cable - · - Gas-Local - - Existing Water Line --- Proposed Water Line -·-UTILITIES 71 �Parks Erie Township contains three park areas: Maplewood, a park in the residential area of the Township Center of Erie; South Erie Park, an undeveloped park along the banks of the Rapideau Drain; and a park development connected to the Mason school complex. Together, these areas provide Erie Township with 19.5 acres of recreation space, according to the Monroe County Recreational Land Acreage Survey. This is far less than the 35.5 acres per 4,500 people called for by general recreation planning guidelines. Because Erie Township's population has grown since the 1970 census count of 4,494, more park and recreation land is needed. Other Local Government Facilities Local government facilities are inadequate in several respects and will need to be expanded if the Township is to serve its slowly growing population . It is expected that future needs wi!I be greatest for public safety facilities (police and fire department) and for the maintenance of streets and utility systems. These facilities should be placed in the two basic development districts located around sewer lines. At present, local government facilities such as the Township Hall, the fire station and the library are located within the Township Center of Erie. A second fire station is located on Morin Point. The Township Hall and the fire station do not have adequate parking and therefore contribute to congestion on nearby streets. Even though land has recently been acquired for parking facilities around the Township Hall, additional land should be purchased for this purpose. An analysis of library needs in the "Comprehensive Development Plan for the Monroe County Region" indicates that the present library is inadequate in space and size of staff. Expansion should therefore be planned. The second fire station on Morin Point is not well located for serving the southern part of the Township. It is too small to p'rovide the service that will be needed as the area becomes more developed and its location in the floodway of Lake Erie is subject to periodic flooding. The Township should program a new fire station in a new location. 72 �TY of LUNA PIER I I I suMtr~ .-Pion! I LAKE ERIE \ • \I I COMMITTED DEVELOPMENT PRIME AGRICULTURE RECREATION/ OPEN SPACE - PRIMARY CIRCULATION ➔ LOCAL APPROACH ROUTES L _v RECREATION / OPEN SPACE SYSTEMS 1 Miie :s 73 �THREE POSSIBLE DEVELOPMENT STRATEGIES Based upon the regional context of Erie Township, its community goals, social and economic trends, and the natural and man-made environments, three alternative ways to guide Erie Township development were considered during the planning process . Although these were eventually combined into a single General Development Plan, as circumstances change, the particular mix of ideas that make up the General Development Plan may no longer be appropriate and the Township may wish to shift the emphasis to one development concern . The three develop mer.it alternatives are the corridor development, the east/west centroid, and the cluster pattern. All three recommend low density residential development in the Township's northwest corner and for preservation of the shoreland/wetland area in the Lake Erie floodplain. Their differences center around Landscape Zone 11. The Corridor Development The corridor development takes advantage of the strong corridor structure of the Township. It would conform to past zoning practices allowing strip development along highways. The difficulty of this type of development is the inefficiencies it creates. Sewer lines have to stretch long distances to serve all the development along the highway corridor and fire engines and police cars need to travel longer distances to get to their destinations. Because development depends on the location of highways, new interchanges would have an unpredictable effect upon it. The East/West Centroid This alternative recognizes the restructuring of regional accessibility brought about by the 1-75 expressway and the change of development pressures it brings to the Township. In a regional sense, 1-75 maintains the pattern of north/south transportation corridors, but in Erie Township it establishes a counter-force . By taking advantage of the interchanges at Luna Pier Road and Erie Road, and by controlling the flow of traffic between 1-75 and Telegraph Road, the Township can establish an east/west development pattern. The Cluster Pattern This development alternative clusters development around places where it already exists: the Township Center of Erie and the developed areas between Telegraph Road and Dixie Highway. This pattern assumes limited gro\/\!th as suggested by economic and population predictions for the Township. The General Development Plan is derived from the combination of the three alternative development strategies. This combination is the result of the goals established by the township, by existing conditons and by present and future development potentials in the township. None of the alternatives by themselves were found to meet the township's needs, potentials, or goals. 74 ��MORE ON ERIE TOWNSHIP GEOLOGY The bedrock underlying Erie Township is part of the Michigan Basin, a geological depression which centers in the lower peninsula of the state and extends outward to bordering states and Canada. Different strata of this basin make up the basement rock of successive concentric rings extending outward from the center. In Erie Township, the basement rock dates back to the Precambrian era, over 600 million years ago. This igneous and metamorphic rock is covered by strata formed during the Devonian and Silurian periods, about 400 million years ago . In Monroe County, these Devonian and Silurian strata lie in a northeast/southwest direction, and tilt upwards towards the northwest at about 50 feet per mile. Thus, younger rocks are closer to the surface in the northwest part of the country. Two groups of Devonian and Silurian strata, the Salina group and the Bass Islands group, occur in Erie Township. Both strata were formed by sedimentation of warm inland seas during the Paleozoic era about 400 million years ago. The Salina group, which covers nearly all of the Township, consists of dolomites, shales, and dolomitic shales. These rocks are of limited mineral value, and no surface exposures of them exist in the Township . Oil and gas deposits are often found in porous zones of these rocks, but rarely in sufficient quantities to support producing wells. At any rate, no producing wells are known to exist in or near the Township. •::::: _::•:· ~ ··••· ~-r~PMY (D"TllM 1,> M9AN 6"'A ~ ) cc,..n-ot.{FL l,,AI~ { 11\J<P)U. ~"1 ) - 10 f=I:!;~ I The Bass Islands rock group consists entirely of dolomites. This group has been quarried, and is still being quarried, in some sections of Monroe County . Sinkholes and oil and gas wells have also been associated with the Bass Islands group, but again these only occur in other parts of the County. Bass Islands dolomite is fairly close to the surface in much of the northwest part of Erie Township, and in the far northwest corner it forms outcroppings above the surface of the ground. This could pose problems for construction and waste disposal, since Bass Islands dolomite is prone to solution decay. The topography of the bedrock surface underneath the Township is irregular. Valleys running from the northwest to the southeast were apparently carved in the bedrock during the Wisconsin glaciation, when Lake Erie was much lower than it is today and glaciers cut gashes in the rock as they moved downhill to meet the lake. 76 �Thus, the bedrock is very near the surface in the northwest corner of the Township and along the steep sides of the valleys. Within the valleys themselves, and in the southeast corner of the Township, the bedrock lies far below the surface. Foundation design and sewer installations need to consider bedrock topography in this area. Groundwater aquifers, or underground reservoirs, may exist in the Township; if so, they are likely to follow the bedrock topography and be related to its irregularities. Covering the bedrock in the Township is a layer of material deposited here during the retreats and advances of glaciers during the Ice Age. This glacial drift contains two kinds of material: material deposited directly by the glaciers, and material spread by glacial melt water. The material deposited directly by the glaciers is called till. Much of the bedrock in Erie Township seems to be covered by a plain of glacial till or stiff clay, along with some coarser material. The surface of the till has been reworked into good agricultural soil by the action of glacial lakes, which covered the Township as the glaciers began to melt and move north . The lower part of the till, however, seems to form a water-tight layer over the bedrock causing poor drainage. Well drillers consider this layer a "hardpan ." During the retreat of the Wisconsin glaciation, a series of lakes covered various parts of the Erie-Huron lowland in this general area. One of these lakes, glacial Lake Algonquin, formed an interrupted beach ridge in the northwest section of the Township when its water level was about 605 feet above sea level. This beach ridge provides some of the most prominent relief in an otherwise flat area and was used for cemeteries by early settlers because of its height and sand composition. OVl!!!IZ-e>a~DeN CON,0{,//2. /N.,...,.,VAL-- (MI\UJU.. ~ICl<NE!S!E> - 10 r,,,e:-r i"f"'f) Glacial lakes also deposited varying amounts of sand, silt, and clay on different parts of the Township. Northwest . of the beach ridge, the primary deposits were lacustrine (that is, lake-deposited) sands. Southeast of the ridge, the Township was covered with lake-deposited clay and silt. The clay and silt provided the Township with good agricultural soil, but also kept the Township from having any significant deposits of sand and gravel. 77 �ERIE TOWNSHIP VEGETATION TYPES Erie Township vegetation can be classified into four major community types : upland woods, transitional/mixed woods, floodplain/wetland, and swamp/marsh vegetation. As the names indicate, these vegetation types reflect different environments in the Township . The upland woods vegetation mostly occurs in the northwest part of the Township and consists largely of mature, medium-stock oaks and hickories with some more than 30 inches in diameter. These trees form the overstory of the upland woods; the understory consists largely of dogwood and redbud, with young maples predominating on wetter sites. Recently logged or grazed woodlots have more hawthorn and herbaceous shrubs in the understory. The transitional/mixed woods vegetation type is similar to the upland woods in form and composition, but occurs on soils with more moisture and of higher clay content. There is a large amount of maple, cottonwood, ash, box elder, and hackberry in this group, in addition to the oaks and hickories. It occurs frequently along the sides of streams and ditches and includes much scrub growth. The floodplain/wetland vegetation type is associated with wetlands and in the Lake Erie floodplain. Consisting of cottonwood, box elder, maple, ash, hackberry and black poplar; with willow increasingly important along the Lake Erie shoreline, these woods consist of dense, mature stands of trees. 78 �On the Woodtick Peninsula, this vegetation type consists overwhelmingly of willows, toppled by shoreline erosion. Wild grape grows vigorously in the understory and even into the crowns of trees. The swamp/marsh type occurs where lake or stream waters are shallow and relatively permanent. Trees are more scattered than in the floodplain woods, but of the same species mi x. Blade-like plants such as reeds and rushes ex ist in large numbers, with much of this vegetation area contiguous to Lake Erie . All of these vegetation types ex ist because of environmental conditions. Unless these change, the woods will remain largely as they are today. There have been, of course, some changes in vegetation patterns since the area was settled. Hackberry and box elder are more abundant now, due to grazing and logging activity and planted and ornamental trees have "escaped" from cultivation and become integral parts of the woodland community. The Township's elm, beech, willow, oak and hickory trees, however, represent remnants of the forest which covered Erie Township before settlers first came here. While the mix of these trees in the forest have changed because of disturbances like Dutch elm disease, the species remain the same. 79 �POPULATION ERIE TOWNSHIP Population Counts, 1950 To 1970 Count Of Persons By Race, 1970 Population 1950 Population 1960 Population 1970* 4,442 4,116 4,494 Count Of Persons By Sex And Age, 1970 Age Group Under 5 5 6 7 -9 10- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22- 24 25- 34 35- 44 45- 54 55- 59 60 - 61 62- 64 65- 74 75 and over Totals Fema les Totals 2 11 55 45 151 235 62 50 55 44 25 45 24 21 82 259 259 221 93 34 65 106 64 243 48 52 160 202 61 59 45 41 51 38 23 39 91 267 247 224 98 35 61 101 59 454 103 97 3 11 437 123 109 100 85 76 83 47 60 173 526 506 445 191 69 126 207 123 2,206 2,245 4,45 1 *This f igu re ref lects the latest correction by t he U. S. Bureau of the Census br ing in g t he ori gina ll y reported population f igure of 4,451 to a new tota l of 4,494. 80 4,424 12 15 Population By Country Of Origin, Nativity Males Source: Monroe County Plann ing Commission White Negro Other Non-White Total Population 4,451 Native of Native Parentage Tota l Foreign 4,029 422 Native of Foreign or Mixed Parentage Foreign Born United Kingdom and Ireland West Europe East Europe Med iterranean and Other Asia Americas Africa Other and not Reported 247 175 7 82 160 12 14 136 11 Average Household Size Total Popu lation 3.54 Average Family Size Tota l Wh ite Non-White Population 3.90 3.90 2.75 However, it was not poss ibl e to ad j ust t he other tab les to correspond to the new tota l . Consequent ly they are st ill based upon the earl ier count. �Marital Status of Persons 14 Years Old & Over Now Married Widowed Divorced Separated Never Married Mobility: 66.9% 5.5% 2.7% 1.0% 23.9% POPULATION ERIE TOWNSHIP Persons By Year Moved Into Unit 1970- 1969 1969-1965 1964-1960 Prior to 1960 6 16 1,226 845 1,794 Family Composition Residency In 1965 For Population 5 And Over Tota l Families 1,089 Husband-Wife Families With Children under 6 With Ch il dren under 18 984 273 577 Male Headed Families With Chi ldren under 6 With Chi ld ren under 18 38 Same Hou se Same County Mich igan From North and West From South From Abroad and Not Reported 19 Education: Female Headed Families With Ch il dren under 6 With Ch ildren under 18 67 5 40 Persons Aged 3 To 34 By School Attendance Primary Individua l Population in Group Quarte rs 170 0 Kindergarten to 8th Grade High School College 2,610 836 91 325 57 141 1,092 386 85 Households With Head 62 Years Old & Over Husband-Wife Family Other Family with Ma le Head Family with Female Head Ma le Primary Individual Female Primary Individual 146 11 17 34 54 Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 81 �HOUSING ERIE TOWNSHIP Year Round Housing Unit Characteristics Housing Unit Characteristics Total Housing Units 1,363 Year Built Occupied Housing Units 1,259 1969 - 1970 1965 - 1968 1960 - 1964 1950 - 1959 1940 - 1949 19~9 or earlier Owner Occupied Units Renter Occupied Units Vacant Housing Units Vacant Year Round Vacant for Sale Vacant for Rent Vacant Seasonal & Migratory 999 260 92 79 8 5 13 Mobile Home Parks* Licensed Parks Licensed Sites 1 20 10 68 96 326 237 601 Units In Structure 1 Unit, Detached 1 Unit, Attached 2 Units. 3 - 4 Units 5 - 9 Units 10 - 19 Units 20 or more Units Mobile Home or Trailer 1,217 57 27 15 22 Access *This figure of 1,363 total housing units reflects the most recent correction by the U. S. Bureau of the Census . However, the following tables are based on the originally reported figures for they could not be adjusted to include the newly recognized units. (From 1970 - 1973 an additional 111 housing units were built.) Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 82 With Direct Access Without Direct Access 1,337 1 �Year Round Housing Units Occupied Housing Units Complete Kitchen Facilities Tenure & Race of Head Wit h Comp lete Kitchen Fac il ities Without Comp lete Kitchen Fac ili ties 1,292 46 Owner Occupied 1,255 83 Renter Occupied 1,278 Age Of Head Plumbing Facilities With All Plumbing Fac il ities Lacks One or More Fac ility Toilet Facilities Flush Toil et fo r t hi s household onl y Fl ush To il et but also used by another household No Fl ush To il et 3 57 Source of Water Public System or Private Company Individua l We ll Other Source (spri ng, creek, river cistern , et c.) 28 1,255 Wh ite Head Negro Head Other Non-Wh ite Under 30 Years of Age 30 - 44 Years of Age 45 - 64 Years of Age 65 Years and Older Other Family Primary Individua l 999 994 3 2 260 258 168 339 373 96 96 187 Number of Persons in Unit 55 Type of Sewage Disposal Pub lic Sewer Septic Tank or Cesspool Other Means Wh ite Head Negro Head Other Non-White HOUSING ERIE TOWNSHIP 31 1,187 120 Un its Units Units Un its Units Units Units Units w it h with with w ith with with with with 1 person 2 persons 3 persons 4 persons 5 persons 6 persons 7 persons 8 or mo re 160 358 187 199 136 99 60 60 Source : Monroe County Planning Commission 83 �HOUSING ERIE TOWNSHIP Occupied Housing Unit Characteristics, 1970 Owner Occupied Housing Unit Characteristics, 1970 Number of Persons Per Room Year Built 1.00 or less per room 1.01 - 1.50 per room 1.51 or more per room 1,114 109 36 Year Structure Built 1969 - 1970 1965- 1968 1960 - 1964 1950 - 1959 1940- 1949 1939 or earlier 84 3 14 220 569 67 27 1,183 49 Sewage Disposal Public Sewer Septic Tank or Cesspool Other Means 30 1,143 86 Source : Monroe County Planning Commission 84 67 296 151 424 Age of Head Under 30 Years of Age 30 - 44 Years of Age 45 - 64 Years of Age 65 Years and Older Other Family Primary Individual 59 267 323 90 89 171 1,192 Source of Water Public System or Private Company Individual Well Other Source (spring, creek, ri ver cistern, etc.) 10 51 10 62 Plumbing Facilities With Al l Plumbing Facilities Lacks One or More Facil ities 1969 - 1970 1965 - 1968 1960 - 1964 1950- 1959 1940 - 1949 1939 or ear lier Units in Structure 1 Unit, Detached 1 Unit, Attached 2 Units 3-4Units 5 - 9 Units 10 - 19 Units 20 or More Units Mobile Home or Trailer 955 21 7 16 �Owner Occupied Housing Units, 1970 HOUSING ERIE TOWNSHIP Home Valu e Family Income Percent of units in home va lue group: Percent of homeowners in income groups: Less than $5,000 $5,000 - $9,999 $10 ,000 - $14,999 $15,000 - $19,999 $20,000 - $24,999 $25,000 - $34,999 $35,000 or more 5.3% 21.1% 22.7% 23.5% 12.8% 8. 7% 5.6% Less than $3,000 $3,000 - $4,999 $5,000 - $6,999 $7 ,000 - $9,999 $10,000 - $14,999 $ 15,000- $24,999 $25,000 and over 16 .98% 6.48% 8 .37% 21.58% 29 .95% 13.67% 2.94% Owner Occupied Units Value, By Family Income Percent of units in home value group, by income of family: Home Value Less than $5,000 $5 ,000 - $9,999 $10,000 - $ 14,999 $15,000 - $ 19,999 $20,000 - $24,999 $25,000 - $34,999 $35,000 or more Less than $3,000 48.8 27.9 19.6 2.5 15.5 25.0 $3,000 $4,999 $5,000 $6,999 $7 ,000 $9,999 $10,000 $14,999 5.5 8.8 8.0 26.6 8.3 8.2 8.5 100 11. 1 24.0 27.4 21.5 18.3 20.2 8.3 20.6 20.2 42.0 51.3 51 .3 8. 1 12.5 $15,000 $24,999 13.3 10.6 12.9 15.0 13.5 54.1 $25,000 and over 2.7 2.5 2.5 4.5 6.7 Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 85 �HOUSING ERIE TOWNSHIP Renter Occupied Unit Characteristics, 1970 Gross Rent Year Built Percent of Renters Paying: 1969 - 1970 1965 - 1969 1960 - 1964 1950 - 1959 1940 - 1949 1939 or earlier Less than $40 $40- $59 $60 - $79 $80 - $99 $100 - $149 $150 - $199 $200 or more No Rent 2.69% 23 .76% 57.84% 13.45% 2.24% Income Percent of Renters in In come Class : Less than $2,000 $2,000 - $2,999 $3,000 - $4,999 $5,000 - $6,999 $7,000 - $9,999 $10,000 - $14,999 $15,000 - $24,999 $25,000 or more 4.93% 4.03% 5.82% 16.14% 37.21% 17:04% 12.10% 2.69% Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 86 11 17 18 69 145 Units in Structure 1 Unit, Detached 1 Unit, Attached 2 Units 3 - 4 Units 5 - 9 Units 10 - 19 Units 20 Units or More Mobile Home or Trailer 194 31 18 12 5 Age of Head Husband-Wife Families: Under 30 Years of Age 30 - 44 Years of Age 45 - 64 Years of Age 65 Years and Older Other Family Primary Individual 109 72 50 6 7 16 �Building Permit Activity Since 1968 HOUSING ERIE TOWNSHIP Total New Living Units New Commercial Units Year Total Units Dollar Value Year Total Units Dollar Value 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 13 14 16 37 28 32 $288,362 314,882 407,322 912,590 740,035 861,834 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 2 1 3 3 2 2 $120,000 7,400 70,169 53,900 32,548 30,985 Year Total Units Dollar Value 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 13 14 16 37 24 28 $288,362 314,882 407,322 912,590 663,003 801,411 Single Family Dwellings Building Permit Activity, First Six Months of 1973 Total New Living Units Commercial Units Dollar Value Units 18 $482,002 2 Dollar Value $30,985 Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 87 �ECONOMY ERIE TOWNSHIP Persons By Labor Force Status Persons Employed By Occupation Armed Forces Professional, Technica l and Kind red Workers Managers and Administrators, except Farm Sales Clerica l and Kindred Wo rkers Craf tsmen, Foremen & Kin dred Workers Operat ives Laborers , Except Farm Farm Managers Service Workers Priv ate HH D Workers Farm Laborers In Labor Force Employed Unemployed 1,582 1,482 100 Not in Labor Force Under 65 Over 65 · 1,1 9 1 957 234 Income of Families Percent in Income Group : Under $2,000 $2,000 - $3,999 $4,000 - $6,999 $7 ,000 - $9,999 $10,000 - $14,999 $ 15,000 - $24 ,999 $25,000 or more 7.3% 5.5% 9.5% 27.0% 31.5% 16.3% 2.6% Income Of Unrelated Individuals Percent in In come Groups: Under $2,000 $2,000 - $3,999 $4,000 - $6 ,999 $7,000 - $9 ,999 $ 10,000- $14,999 $15,000 - $24,999 $25 ,000 or more 38. 1% ·17 .2% 21.9% 14.0% 6.5% 2.3% Source : Monroe County Planning Commission 88 86 96 91 200 362 402 44 38 18 131 14 Persons Employed By Place of Work Total at Work Withi n Monroe County Outside Monroe County Toledo SMSA, Ohi o Wood County, Oh io Detro it Other Wayne Cou nty Oakland County Macomb County Washtenaw County Lenawee County Other Not Reported 1,520 550 934 792 32 64 14 32 36 �Equalized Assessed Valuation Real Property Personal Property Total Valuation ECONOMY ERIE TOWNSHIP 1965 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 $11,270,582 1,712,257 12,982,839 $13,892,397 2,492,494 16,384,891 $13,991,880 2,436,140 16,428,020 $1 5 ,622,860 2,446,698 18,069,558 $16,696,750 2,539,548 19 ,236,298 $18,027 ,565 2,672,875 20,700,440 Valuation By Property Class, Percent Of Total 1972 % 1973 1971 % $4,536,276 27.61 $4,543,690 25.14 $4,856,450 25.25 $ 5,146,590 28.55 Commercial Real Personal 1,240,573 289,475 7.55 1.76 1,219,160 285,420 6.75 1.58 1,394,100 330,635 7.25 1.72 1,441,650 425,250 7.99 15.91 Industrial Real Personal 1,167,768 507,130 7.11 3.09 1,269,970 530,970 7.03 2.94 1,144,270 605,300 5.95 3.15 823,400 662 ,375 4.57 15.91 Residential Real Personal 7,047,264 432,200 42.90 2.63 8,590,040 438,150 47.54 2.42 9,301,930 406,700 48.35 2.11 10,615,925 385,850 58.89 14.44 Utility Real Personal 1,207,334 7.35 1,192,158 6.60 1,196,913 6.22 1,199,400 44.87 Agricultural Real Personal % 1974 % Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 89 �ERIE TOWNSHIP GOVERNMENT Millage Rates Compa rison For Years 1972 And 1973 School District 1972 1973 Mason School (09) Custer School (now Mason) (14) Bedford School (03) Mason/Bedford School (13) 35.80 35.60 35.05 47.67 38.52 34.82 47. 69 35.23 Township 1.00 1.00 South County Water 2.70 2.80 County 7.00 6.90 1.45 23.65 1.45 23.45 22.90 35.52 26.37 22.67 35.54 23.08 Levy ing Unit Monroe Intermed iate Mason School (09) Custer Schoo l (now Mason) (14) Bedford School (03) Mason/Bedford ( 13) Source: Monroe County Equa li zat ion Department 90 �Zoning Areas Acreage Zoned ERIE TOWNSHIP ZONING AREAS* Residential R-1 Residence 1 R-2 Residence 2 R-3 Residence 3 RS-1 Residence Suburban 94 .96 1,146.85 355.98 653.40 Commercial C-1 Commercial 1 391.96 Industrial LM Light Manufacturing GM General Manufacturing 1.38 1,515.40 Agricultural** AG Agricultural 14,365.42 Total 18,525.35 *As of December 1973 *"' Includes vacant land, roads, streets and right-of-ways Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 91 �ERIE TOWNSHIP LAND USE* Erie Township Residential Single Family Two Family Multi-Family Commercial Industrial Public and Ouasi Public Parks, Recreation and Reserves Agricultura l and Vacant Orchards Forested Tracts** Farm Lots Vacant Tota l Land Use Total Sites Total Acreage 1,367 4 2 1,025.25 4 .00 2.00 1.6020 .0063 .0031 49 87.57 .1368 5 10.71 .0167 66 1,149.03 1.7954 7 162.64 .2541 164 10 (45) 87 67 16,084.15 194.34 (535 .60) 11,318.01 4,571.80 25.1315 .3037 (.8369) 17.6844 7.1434 18,525.35 28.9459 1,664 * As of December, 1973 **Forested land has been d istributed and counted among other land use categories. Source: Monroe County Planning Commission 92 Total Square Miles �PLANNING STANDARDS Residenti al Neighborhood Access Standards for Commun ity Facil ities With in The Neighborhood Recommended Distance, with Maximum L imit Wa lking Distance (one way) From Farthest Dwe lling Neighborhood Facility ¼ mile* or 15 min. ¼to½ mi le t ¼to½ mi le '¥ ¼to½ mi le ¼to½ m il e ¼to½ mi le § ½ mile § ½ mi le Nursery schoo! Kindergarten Elementary school Playgrou nd Park Shopping Center Indoor social, cultural, and recreation center Health Center • Where nu rsery schoo l cannot be provided with in ¼ m ile, it shou ld at least be within 15 minutes elapsed time by pu b I ic or special t ransit. t In exceptiona l circumstances, the limit may be¾ mi le wa lk or 20 minutes elapsed time by school bus, if children may obtain hot lunches at school at nom inal cost. 111 One-ha lf m il e perm iss ib le on ly in p lanned neighborhoods meeting al l requirements for safe access, and where playground is adjacent to elementary school. Where fac ili ty ca nnot be provided w it hin neighborhood or wa lking distance it shou ld at least be within 20 minutes elapsed t im e by pub li c transit. Source: Committee on the Hygiene of Housing, American Public Health Neighborhood, (Chicago: Public Administration Service, 1960), Table 5, p. 44. Associat ion, Planning The �PLANNING STANDARDS Land Area of all Neighborhood Comm unity Fac iliti es Component Uses and Aggregate A rea, by Type of Development and Population of Neighborhood * Type of Development 1 ,000 persons 275 fami lies 2,000 persons 550 famil ies 3,000 persons 825 famil ies 4,000 person s 1,100 families 5,000 persons 1,375 fami lies One or two-family deve lopment* Area in component uses 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) Acres in schoo l site Acres in playground Acres in park Acres in shopping center Acres in general community faci litiest 1.20 2.75 1.50 .80 1.20 3.25 2.00 1.20 1.50 4 .00 2.50 2.20 1.80 5 .00 3.00 2 .60 2.20 6.00 3.50 3.00 .38 .76 1.20 1.50 1.90 6.63 6.63 1,050 8.41 4 .20 670 11.40 3.80 600 13.90 3.47 550 16.60 3.32 530 1.20 2.75 2.00 .80 1.20 3.25 3.00 1.20 1.50 4 .00 4 .00 2.20 1.80 5 .00 5.00 2 .60 2.20 6 .00 6.00 3.00 .38 .76 1.20 1.50 1.90 7 .13 7.13 1,130 9 .41 4 .70 745 12.90 4.30 680 15.90 3 .97 630 19.10 3.82 6 10 Aggregate area 6) Acres total 7) Acres per 1,000 persons 8) Square feet per family Mult ifam il y deve lopment:j: Area in component uses 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) Acres in school site Acres in playground Acres in park Acres in shopp ing center Acres in genera l community facil itiest Aggregate area 6) Acres total 7) Acres per 1,000 persons 8) Squa re feet per fam il y 94 *With pr ivate lot area of less than 1/4 acre per fami ly (for private lots of 1/4 acre or more, park area may be omitted). tA ll owance for indoor socia l and cultural facilities in Section 22 (chu rch, assemb ly ha ll , etc.) or separate health center, nursery schoo l , etc., una ll ocated above. Need w ill vary loca ll y. :j:Or othe r development predo min ant ly w ithout pr ivate ya rds. Source: Comm ittee on Hygiene of H ousing, Ameri can Pub lic Hea lth Associat io n , Plann ing the Neighborhood (Chicago Public Administration Service, 1960 ), T ab le 11, p. 53. �PLANNING STANDARDS Standards for Recreational Activities Type of Recreation Activity Space Requirements For Activity Per Population Ideal Size of Space Required for Activity Recreational Area Wherein Activity May Be Located Active Recreation 1. Children's Play Area (with equipment) 0.5 acre/1,000 pop. 1 acre 2. Field Play Areas for Young Children 3. Older Children-Adult Field Sports Activities 4. Tennis-Outdoor Basketball Other Court Sports 5. Swimming 1.5 acres/1,000 pop. 3 acres 1.5 acres/1,000 pop. 15 acres 1.0 acres/5,000 pop. 2 acres 1 outdoor pool/ 25,000 competition size plus wading pool 2 acres 100 acres and over 500-1,000 acres 6. Major Boating Activities 7. Hiking-Camping-Horseback 100 acres/50,000 1O acres/ 1 ,000 pop . Riding-Nature Study 8. Golfing Playgrounds-Neighborhood Parks Community Parks, School Playgrounds Playgrounds-Neighborhood Parks Community Parks Playfield Community Park District Park Playfield-Community Pc: rk Playfield-Community Park District Park-Regional Park or Reservation Large District Park-Regional Park 1-18 hole course per 50,000 pop. 120 acres Community Park -District Park 4 acres/1,000 pop. 1 Lake or Lagoon per 25,000 pop. 1 acre/1,000 pop. varies 20 acre water area 100 acres All parks Community Park Special Regional Reservations Large District Park or Special Facility 1. Parking at Recreational Areas 1 acre/1,000 pop. varies 2. Indoor Recreation Centers 3. Outdoor Theaters , Band Shells 1 acre/10,000 pop 1 acre/25,000 pop. 1-2 acres 5 acres Passive Recreat ion 1. Picknicking 2. Passive Water Sports Fishing-Rowing Canoeing 3. Zoos, Arboretums . Botanical Gardens Other Standards for Recreational Areas Type of Area Acres Per 1,000 Population Playgrounds Neighborhood Parks Playfields 1.5 2.0 1.5 Community Parks District Parks Regional Parks and Reservations 3.5 2.0 15.0 Ideal Playfields, Community, District & Regional Parks Community Parks District Parks Size of Site Minimum 4 acres 10 15 100 200 500-1,000 2 acres 5 10 40 100 var ies Radius of Area Served 0.5 mi les 0.5 1.5 2.0 3.0 10.0 Source : George Nez, Standards for New Urban Development - The Denver Background, Reprinted by Permission of Urban Land. Vol 20, No. 5 Urban Land Institute, 1200 18th Street . N.W. , Washington, D.C. 95 �PLANNING STANDARDS Standards for Neighborhood and Community Commercial Space Population Served Floor Area Required (Sales Area) Customer Parking Area 3: 1 Ratio Circulation Service, and Planting Areas 25% Total Square Feet Total Acres Required Square Feet Per Family (Gross) Maximum Walking Distance 800 Families 2,500 Persons 1,600 Families 5,000 Persons 12,000-13,000 Families 40,000 Persons 30,000-32,000 Families 100,000 Persons 20 SF/Family= 16,000 SF 18 SF/Family= 28,800 SF 25 SF/Family= 100,000 SF 20 SF/Family= 200,000 SF 32,000 SF 57,600 SF 300,000 SF 600,000 SF 12,000 SF 60,000 SF 1.4 acres 36,400 SF 172,800 SF 4.0 acres 100,000 SF 500,000 SF 10-12 acres 200,000 SF 1,000,000 SF 20-24 acres 100 ½ mile 38-42 1 mile walk 15-minute drive 32-36 1½ mile walk 30-minute drive 75 ¼ mile Food Market - Should include specialty foods and delicatessen goods Barber Shop - Including shoeshine service Beauty Parlor - May be combined with barber shop Bakery Shop - May be included in food market Drugstore fountain Should include lunch counter and soda Laundry and Dry Cleaning Store - Combined service, in cluding a laundromat Hardware - Should include household goods Stationery Store - In cluding reading matter, tobacco and vanity goods Restaurant orders 96 Including table service and take-out In cluding filling station, minor repairs, and auto accessories Service Station - �PLANNING STANDARDS The community shopping center, designed to serve a larger number of families than the neighborhood shopping center, will contain the basic types of services and facilities required by the neighborhood. The leading tenant of the community shopping center is the variety or junior department store. In addition, the center should have a florist, milliner, radio and T.V . repairs, children's shoes, gifts, candy, lingerie, liquor, women's apparel, restaurant, book store, children's wear and toys, haberdashery, athletic goods shops. A movie theatre may also be included. A bank and post office should be included as a public service, if they are not available elsewhere in the neighborhood. They do not pay well, any more than service stores do, but often in a shopping center it is more important to have a balanced variety of stores, than a group of 100% pu Ilers. In order to make this truly a community center it may also be advisable to include offices for doctors and other professional men. However, it is generally considered among developers that office workers usurp a great deal of parking space all day without drawing sufficient trade to compensate for this. Offices are generally put on the second floor of one of the store buildings, or in a separate building which may be used as a ·buffer between the stores and the surrounding residences. Community Shopping Center �PLANNING STANDARDS Industrial Basic Relationships : (a) (b) (c) (d) (e) Working Workers Workers Workers Workers 35-40% 30-35% 60-70% 30-40% Force as a percent of total population in industrial areas as percentage of total working force in Heavy Industry as percentage of workers in industrial area in Light Industry as percentage of workers in industrial area in basic industry (manufacture of goods for export from area as percentage of 10% theoretical community size Worker-Area Ratios : Present Ratios Expected Future Rat ios Average Number of Workers Per Gross Acre of Industrial Land Heavy Industry Light Industry Industrial Park 8 28 18 6 22 16 Land Requirement of Industry: (a) (b) (c) (d) Total Land Land Land Gross Land requirement for all Industry requirements for Light Industry requirements for Heavy Industry requirements for pre-planned industrial complex (Industrial Park) : * 12 acres/1 ,000 population 2 acres/1,000 population 10 acres/1,000 population Minimum 320 acres ldeal640 acres (e) Requirements for industrial land reserve : reserve land for minimum of 50 years future growth General Requirements for Industrial Location: (a) Fast, easy and convenient access to good transportation facilities including rail , highway and air (bl Reasonable location with respect to labor supply, raw materials source and markets (c) An adequate amount of suitable land, free from foundation and drainage problems with a suffi cient reserve for future growth (d) An adequate and reliable supply of utilities : water, waste disposal, power and fuel (e) Protection from encroachment of residential or other land uses (f) Location so as to minimize obnoxious externa l effects on neighboring non-industrial land uses SOURCE : George Nez, Standards for New Urban Development - The Denver Background Reprinted by Permission of Urban Land, Vol. 20, No. 5 Urban Land Institute, 1200 18th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 98 �Erie Township Center Proposed Acres Units Per Acre Total Units Persons Per Unit Total Population Single Family 34 3.5 11 9 3.4 405 Multi Family 36 6.0 216 2.6 562 PROJECTED DEVELOPMENT CAPABILITIES 967 335 Halfway Creek Community (a) Sing le Fami ly 129 3.5 451 3.4 1,533 (b) Mobi le Home 17 7 .0 119 2.2 262 (b) Single Family 154 3.5 539 3.4 1,832 (c) Single Family 50 3.5 17 5 3.4 595 1,284 Total Units Total Population 4,222 1,619 5,189 Recreation & Open Space (a) East of 1-75 5,040.0 acres (b) Halfway Creek 1,108.0 acres (c) North Erie 708 .0 acres Source: Johnson, Johnson & Roy /in c. 99 �RESULTS OF THE QUESTIONNAIRE CIRCULATED AMONG TOWNSH IP RESIDENTS * There is a strong possib ility that the uses of land in Er ie T ownship will change substantia lly within the foreseeable future. The population of the County and the Township w ill probab ly increase at a more rapid rate than in the past. Th ese things bring up important quest ions that shou ld be answered by the people who live in Erie Townsh ip and own property here. The Erie Township Plann ing Commission needs your answers to the follow ing questions so that they can act on your-beha lf in the best interests of our Township. 1. Did you know that there are certain lega l restrictions p laced on what property owners can do with their land? Yes 75 No 16 2. Are a. b. c. d. e. 3. ls the present use of your land substantia ll y d ifferent from the use of the surrou nding lands? Yes 10 No 79 4. Wou ld you like to see Er ie Township 60 remain primar ily ag ricu ltura l/r ura l 6 become more suburbanized 25 urbanize with a full range of commercial , industria l and res idential activity 5. Regarding the wet lands along Lake Erie and the various streams, do you want these areas to be used primari ly for water re lated uses, such as marinas, public f ishing sites, boat docks, hunt ing areas, etc-7 Yes 84 No 6 6. Do you use t he services ava ilab le within the t own of Er ie? Yes 62 No 22 you presently us ing your property primari ly for: residential purposes 67 agriculture 26 commercial 2 manufactur ing recreational 4 Would you like its image improved and more activ it ies made ava i lab le7 Yes 59 No 28 100 7. Would you like to see commercia l development encouraged at other places in the township? Yes 49 No 37 8. Have you had any problem with your drinking water or sewage disposa l because of the heavy rains and f looding last fa ll and spri ng? Yes 19 No 72 9. Do you th ink sewers should be considered for areas hav ing a h igh water tab le or where there are many residences and buildings7 Yes 40 No 47 10. Wou ld you favor having some land that is now be ing farmed zoned so that only agriculture is al lowed 7 This m ight mean t hat the on ly bu il d in gs all owed in t hese areas wou ld be t hose the farmer needs tor his business. Yes 66 No 19 11. In what part of Erie Township do you live? * T abulation as of 12/ 18/73 �Bibliography Dorr, John A., Jr. and Donald F. Eschman, Geology of Michigan, 1970, University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor, Michigan. Earthview, Incorporated, "Preliminary Pollution Survey - Hagman Road Landfill, Erie Township, Michigan," Toledo, Ohio, 1973, Typescript. Lavoy, Lambert, "Bay Settlement of Monroe County, Michigan," 1971. Michigan Geological Survey, "Our Rock Riches," Bulletin 1, 1964, Lansing, Michigan. Mazola, Andrew J., "Geology for Environmental Planning in Monroe County, Michigan," Michigan Geological Survey, Investigation 13, 1970, Lansing, Michigan. Office of Lucas County Engineer, "Storm Drainage in the Toledo Regional Area," Regional Report 9 3, 1969, Toledo, Ohio. Twenter, Floyd, "General Availability and Quality of Groundwater in the Bedrock Deposits in Michigan," Water Resources Division, U.S. Geological Survey, Lansing, Michigan, map. U.S. Department of Agriculture, Soil Conservation Service, "Soil Survey of Monroe County," 1970, Monroe, Michigan. Vaughan, R.D. and G.L. Marlow, 1965, "Report on Pollution of the Detroit River, Michigan Waters of Lake Erie, and their Tributaries," U.S. Department of Health, Education & Welfare, Public Health Service, Region V, Grosse lie, Michigan. Wandell, Howard D., "A Biological and Limnological Survey of a Sulfur Spring and Constructed Trout Stream," M.S. Thesis, Michigan State University, Department of Fisheries and Wildlife, 1973, Lansing, Michigan. �Planning Commission Term of Office Harold Mensing Chairman 8/12/76 9/11 /73 Elected 6/18/74 Nei I Cousino Vice Chairman 8/12/77 8/12/69 Elected 1/16/73 Ted Norts Chairman Secretary 5/16/74 1/16/73 Elected 10/1/74 Floyd Asbury Ernest Buschmann James Cousino Ted Dickerson Richard Peters Wi lbur Smith 5/8/73 2/2/74 5/8/73 2/26/74 6/11 /74 1/28/57 8/12/76 8/12/77 8/12/75 8/12/77 8/12/75 8/12/75 4/11 /72 3/9/71 12/12/72 11 /20/72 2/12/74 1/14/74 8/12/73 9/10/74 Former Members (1972-74) Alfred Cousino Robert Ball A lex Ortiz Jeanne Pasternak 102 Township Board Former Treasurer Planning Coordinator John W. Beutler, Supervisor Jeanne M. Pasternak Ted L. Norts, Treasurer Martin J. Burgard, Trustee James W. O'Neill, Trustee Franklin J. Barron Terry L. Jurrens ( 1973-1974, October) William M. Cline (1974, November - ) �WW~iT#li:lffili\l•~ t .:~~:~~i&~t=wv -;•:::•:=;>511£ ? ,· ' 1 ) ' n_,,,I it~:(c ' 6~\\__; '*':t ,J?_'-- [,._,,-:, -•; ,, " 111 :,:¥ ,-r~1-:.... t@ ;, .. :. ·.. ; . ;? ,-J L '·, -~ J ..) WOOi• UNA RESlDENTIA SPECIAL RES1 ~ ~ \..__~((,S' PE-TEE- ""\~ ~,.. . -~ ; 'St.\ . - -~ - ...:-.;... 9-; . - - . ;;;.._ • 6.fil :J - , :... • 11 •.. - 7:.,m. SINGLE FAMli I ~--:~~~ 'i,) ~;l Gt J ! ~,; MOBILEHOM -::,:. CITY OF •) LUNA Nf '"·--~L.\ ERIE MULTI-FAMI NEIGHBORH PIER ROAD Consumers Power Plant .. HIGHWAY CQ PARKS,OPE INDUSTRIAU I AGRICULTU AGRICULTU r-: i . .= -··.= . ,· ·;.-.... .. :-, . l;l! l~i { LAND ARE SEPTIC SYS 1 J ,~__,,,,~ l. 1---1 • '-..)",...) '\ ~ sffoAD I UTILITY Lil COMMUNIT MAJOR ROA SCHOOLS ' / POTENTIA RESIDENT\ SEWER SY EXCEl?TIO BENORE ROAD Nori h M oumee Boy C' ___ / ::iv WATEII c-) Island ; Lost Pt111insu/a Marino TREAT PLANT / ii!; il:i ~ ROAD 11"' I GENERAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN 0 ERIE TOWNSHIP MONROE COUNTY December, 1974 ' MICHIGAN JJR Johnson, Johnson & Roy/ inc 303 N. Main Street Ann J �~ rrI )'--// - - ❖·:tl'-!J\::~ ·:e.:._J!ffiif4.?l\❖::-~__ =-::~:_. -N fJ.thllt.bITu./::Ji&~=·:r W v 4 u----._"-. ..,-1 r-::...---:: ,,- _ )· '-' "'-:'.-- / -~ ~j "\ c, I . ', -~ \ \~ ' ' ' > , ·:•~=••··-·- --~ ( LAKE i' mm ERIE RESIDENTIAL FLOODPLAIN SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS APPLY - MOBILE HOMES RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL [ ) MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL au Consumers Power Plant WATER RELATED COMMERCIAL PARKS,OPEN SPACE & TREES 1 11 - AGRICULTURAL@ FLOOD PLAIN 1 r •• •. INDUSTRIAL • • • •'• I• I'•,• i : • •,.. ·I ~ • •. 1 1 AGRICULTURAL LAND AREAS SUITABLE FOR SEPTIC SYSTEMS POTENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL REQUIRING SEWER SYSTEM OR EXCEPTIONALLY LARGE LOTS 1---1 1 • UTILITY LINES- ELECTRIC 1 COMMUNITY FACILITIES BUILDING ) MAJOR ROADS SCHOOLS North M oumee Soy Island Losl P•lllnsu/a Marina ~ 0 JJR 1 Mile Johnson, Johnson & Roy/inc. Landscape Architects 303 N. Main Street Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wyckoff Planning and Zoning Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Planning & Zoning Center (Lansing, Mich.) (Organization) Wyckoff, Mark A. Description An account of the resource Municipal master plans and zoning ordinances from across the state of Michigan, spanning from the 1960s to the early 2020s. The bulk of the collection was compiled by urban planner Mark Wyckoff over the course of his career as the founder and principal planner of the Planning and Zoning Center in Lansing, Michigan. Some additions have been made to the collection by municipalities since it was transferred to Grand Valley State University. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Michigan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960/2023 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Comprehensive plan publications Master plan reports Zoning--Michigan Zoning--Maps Maps Land use--planning Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-240 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Erie-Twp_General-Development-Plan_1974 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Johnson & Roy/inc. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1974-12-12 Title A name given to the resource General Development Plan Description An account of the resource The General Development Plan for Erie Township was prepared by Johnson, Johnson & Roy/inc. and was approved by the Monroe County Planning Commission on December 12, 1974. Subject The topic of the resource Master plan reports Erie Township (Mich.) Monroe County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/870">Planning and Zoning Center Collection (RHC-240)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2050f79d3486889ee884dc965f0ebd80.mp4 495ed39a6042b6690b1f9c420ca0095d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/846f380ffdf9894315f810beca434d8d.pdf 0c4bcc87a6c9e0ac9b03eceefbb599ec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Mae Johnson Total Time – (29:18) Background · She was born in Waterbury, Connecticut on July 14, 1919 (00:18) · She graduated from Leavenworth High School (00:24) · Some of the men from her high school were being sent into the Army and the girls wanted to keep them happy so they would join a club to write to them and send them goodies · She graduated in 1937 (01:01) · After she graduated she stayed at home and earned some money so she could go to nursing school · She attended nursing school in Greenwich, Connecticut (01:39) o She became sick and could not finish school · After she could not finish nursing school, she did a lot of babysitting jobs and worked at a company that made parts for gyroscopes (02:07) · When the attacks on Pearl Harbor happened, she was at home with her dad (02:48) · She then travels out to California with a friend and is forced to find work there o She worked for a steel company o She did some kind of work for the military · In California she had a job working with a bastard file (03:34) · She remained in California until she could make enough money to return home to Connecticut · When she returned to Connecticut, she decided to join the service in the Woman’s Army Corps (WAC) (05:41) Enlistment/Training – (05:54) · She enlisted in New Haven, Connecticut (06:02) · She was then sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia for basic training (06:12) · In basic training there was a lot of marching, schoolwork, etc. o She always feared that she would fall out of step when marching (07:05) �Active Duty – (07:38) · After basic training in Georgia, she was sent to Hot Springs, Arkansas (07:40) · She was stationed at a hospital in Arkansas · In Hot Springs, her job was to do everything except for charting (08:57) o The nurses would do charting and the dispensing of medication o She was assigned to the Surgical and Medical Wards · It was a large adjustment of living with so many women and in such small quarters (10:11) · She believes that the veterans coming in bolstered the officers working at the hospital · She was then sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois at the base hospital (11:22) o She did the same kind of work at Fort Sheridan as before · She was in Illinois in the earlier part of 1945 (12:45) · Fort Sheridan had barracks for the officers · Her parents were happy that she enlisted · Fort Sheridan had a lot of potential for activities because it was so close to Chicago, Illinois (16:18) · In Chicago, she enjoyed going to the museums o One time she was given tickets to the Northwestern football game · There was a hotel on Michigan Avenue in Chicago that allowed servicemen and women to lodge for free (18:43) o She stayed there several times · She had met her future husband while at Fort Sheridan · When he proposed she said, “No way. I am not marrying any man that’s going to smoke a cigarette.” (19:32) o He picked her over the cigarettes · They got married at the Fort Sheridan Chapel (20:14) o Both of their parents came to the wedding and met the night before the wedding · She was still in the WAC when she got married (21:51) · Their first son was born in 1949 and their second in 1951 · At the wedding, their wedding cake was made by a German POW who was one of the cooks (24:31) · She saw a lot of the German POW’s and SS guards at Fort Sheridan (25:12) · The German prisoners were treated very well · One time she became very close to a patient that had her face shattered (26:58) o She was constantly with the injured patient § She would try to emotionally sooth her · It was heartbreaking to see the men at the Army and Navy General Hospitals (27:54) · She was very happy that she went into the Army · She found the previous nursing training as very helpful for her (28:41) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonM1348V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Mae (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Mae Description An account of the resource Mae Johnson was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, in 1919. She graduated from Leavenworth High School in 1937 and eventually went to nursing school. Because she could not finish nursing school, Mae traveled to California with a friend. After visiting California, she decided she would enlist in Woman's Army Corps (WAC) in New Haven, Connecticut. She was then sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia for basic training. After basic training, Mae was sent to Hot Springs, Arkansas where she worked in a hospital as she was assigned to the Surgical and Medical Wards. Once she was finished in Arkansas in early 1945, she was sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois where she maintained a similar position as before. While at Fort Sheridan she met her future husband and met many German POWs. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army. Women's Army Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af604db20cfe3806af1b93256d640371.mp4 f7e20e34b9399fb8ccbe322543ce50e5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de441a6fc56fbdccf26c3c236fa707b6.pdf b23205130676ab6baafa8b4a935946e4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II - WAC Mae Johnson Interviewed by James Smither Length of Interview: 29:14 (00:02) JS: We’re talking with Mae Johnson of Greenville, Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither, of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Mrs. Johnson, can you start with some background on yourself. Where and when were you born? MJ: I was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, July 14th, 1919. I grew up there, went to school. Graduated from Leavenworth. Not the prison, the college…the high school. And then, at that time, some of the guys from school were being sent into the Army or the Navy and the girls wanted to keep them happy, so we would join a club and write to them as often as we could. And send them goodies and stuff. (00:56) JS: Now do you remember that year you graduated from high school? MJ: ’37. JS: So after you graduated, did you go to work, or stay at home, or what did you do? MJ: I stayed home and earned some money, because I wanted to learn to be a nurse. So when I got enough money, I went to nursing school. And I was almost through the complete course, a three year course, and I got sick and I was out so long that I couldn’t possibly make up the time, so that was the end of that. JS: Now, where did you attend nursing school? MJ: It was in Greenwich, Connecticut. JS: Okay. And then, once you got sick and you couldn’t catch up, what did you do after that? MJ: Let’s see. I did a lot of baby-sitting jobs. And then I went to work, at that time it was called the Waterbury Clock Company. We held hands and made faces. (laughs) And we made parts for gyroscopes. So we knew what we were getting into at that time. I worked there for quite a while. (02:20) MJ: And then one of my best girlfriends had a sister who lived in California. She was a nurse. And we had enough money saved up so the two of us took the train and went out to California �and stayed out there until we ran out of money. We had to go to work out there, so we got a job at the Bethlehem Steel Company. JS: Now, where were you when Pearl Harbor happened? MJ: I think I was at home, in ’41. I must have been at home, cause I was with my dad. I remember that. JS: Home in Connecticut, at that point. All right. And when did you go out to California, then? (03:00) MJ: I can’t remember. There’s that time element…I can’t keep it straighten out. JS: But the war’s going on at the time that you go out there. MJ: Right. JS: So you go and you work for the steel company. And what were you doing for them? MJ: Oh, I don’t remember. It was something for the military, but I can’t exactly remember. I know…should I say that, Ed? Is it a bad word? (speaks to someone on her right) No, it isn’t really a bad word…really. I had a job working with a bastard file. And I had never heard of that before. And I was real close with my dad, and I knew all of his tools, but I never recalled that he had one of those things. Oh…that was fun. And we both stayed there until we could make enough money to get back to Waterbury again. (laughs). But, I remember what fun it was on the train. I mean, it was a real train, not like Amtrak. But it was fun, mostly it was a mixture of military people, going back and forth. (04:07) MJ: I remember one time, too, that we almost missed the train because we went out to get some goodies, and we pretty near didn’t make it… but… While we were out in California, that was great. Because there was so much to see back then, that was free. And I think I should tell you the story about my girl-friend…she was really naughty. We went to Chinatown one night… JS: So, San Francisco? MJ: Yeah. With the little bit of money that we had, and we went to the restroom. And when we came out, everybody in the place was laughing their heads off. And come to find out, I had a piece of toilet tissue that was trailing on my shoe. And I never did forgive her for that, for not telling me that. But we had a really good, a really good time. We had a chance, one time while we were out there, to go to Alcatraz, cause her sister knew somebody that was working on the boat or something. But we just missed it by a day. (05:17) MJ: But, you know, you see things on tv and it brings back memories, which are great. So… �JS: Okay. So, you had your adventure in California. You come back home to Connecticut. And then what do you do at that point? MJ: And then at that point, after having seen all the military, and having worked in the Bethlehem Steel, I guess I became over-patriotic. I said, oh gee, I guess I’ll join the service. So I did. (05:45) JS: Now how did that wind up working? Was there a recruiting office nearby that you go to? Or what happened? MJ: I didn’t hear you… JS: What’s the process? How do you end up enlisting in the WACs? MJ: Well, I had to go and enlist. And I think that was in New Haven, Connecticut, if I remember correctly. And, of course, I was accepted. And they give you all of your gear, all that stuff. And I was sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia. For the basic training. I was not there all that long. Just enough to learn all the… I do remember that while I was there, I didn’t like the soil that they had there. It was that red clay. And it was a heck of a job, trying to keep your shoes clean. And of course, you had that spot inspection. Get points off if you had a grain of that little red clay on your shoe. (06:40) JS: So what did they have you do, in basic training? MJ: Oh, my. We had a lot of PE. And marching. Marching, marching. Lots of school work. You know, the same learning as the guys do, basic things. I remember that one of my fears was that while we were marching, I would become out of step. And we had to put on a rear view parade performance for a big general, one time. And I thought, of my goodness, is it going to be me that’s going to make a misstep? I can’t remember for sure, but I think it was General Marshall. JS: That’s quite possible. MJ: And, of course, I didn’t know him from Adam, at the time. Yeah, I was there at Fort Oglethorpe for just a short time. And then they sent me to Hot Springs, Arkansas. To a huge Army/Navy General Hospital, that had been previously been a luxurious hotel. JS: Right. Cause you had the health spa there with the hot springs. (07:53) MJ: Right. And those were…I have to tell the truth, I never, cause I never did get into one of the spas. But we called it “Million Dollar Row” back then, and we would walk by. The hospital was at the top of the hill. You could overlook the city. Um, I remember one time that they were giving us some kind of a drill, and they were using a hose to put out a fire, a pretend fire. Of �course, they turn the water on. I can remember one girl, she was trying to hold the hose down. It jumped up in the air and she almost went flying. (laughs) It was comical, but… JS: Was this like one of those big, kind of canvas fire hose? Very big, a lot of pressure, just bounce around… MJ: Everybody was just laughing their heads off, it was just really fun. (08:48) JS: Now what was your job at Hot Springs? MJ: Actually, it was doing everything except the charting. For the…the nurses did all the charting. And the nurses dispensed all the medication. But the technicians actually gave them out to the patients. So, you know, it was just routine. Temperature, pulse and respiration. JS: Did you have a particular ward or part of the hospital that you were assigned to? MJ: It was called the surgical…actually, on my record, it says “Surgical and Medical Technician,” so there was a combination of both of them there. But, um, we did just about everything. You’d never catch a nurse emptying a bedpan, I’ll tell you that. You know how that goes, don’t you? (09:46) JS: Now were the nurses officers at this point? MJ: Yeah. All officers. JS: So you’re the enlisted people. You do the dirty work. MJ: Yeah. We did the dirty work. Which is par for the course, isn’t it? JS: Okay. And, I don’t know…what was daily life like there? MJ: Well, it was quite an adjustment getting used to living with so many girls. And sharing small quarters, really. Coming back to Fort Oglethorpe, though, I can remember how naïve I was. When they asked for volunteers to do something, and I volunteered for kitchen patrol. And part of it was cleaning out a grease pit. The other part was peeling potatoes. And that was before the, you know, automatic peelers. JS: Right. (10:38) MJ: Yeah. Oh, golly. It was fun at the Army/Navy General, but you know, when I first got there and looked at all those guys, and thought, I don’t know if I can really stand it, cause it was just overwhelming. You know, when you see the devastation to their bodies. But, truthfully, it �was the vets themselves that bolstered us. Which is surprising. So we both learned along the way. (11:16) MJ: So then after Hot Springs, then they sent me to Fort Sheridan, to the base hospital there. And that wasn’t exciting, quite so exciting until you know when… (smiles). I walked in one day and they had just brought back a bunch of guys that came back from overseas. And I saw this one person in particular, and I said to my girlfriend…I have to chuckle every time I think of this…well, I said, I’m going to take that guy home with me. I said, you can have the rest of them. I’ll take him home. (11:54) JS: Now in his account of things, he had kind of a foul temper at that point. MJ: He did. But he was a charmer. He didn’t really have to say anything, to be honest. I really and truly meant that, that I wanted it to, you know, get to be a lasting friendship. So…what else can I tell you about that… JS: Well, MJ: He finally warmed up, how about that? JS: He must have. Now, what did your duties consist of? Were you doing the same kind of work at Fort Sheridan as you had in the other place? (12:27) MJ: Yeah. Of course, it was a smaller…a much smaller base. JS: Now did you get there before the war in Europe ended? MJ: Right, um hmm. JS: Okay. So you got there early ’45, maybe? MJ: The war ended in ’45. JS: Right. And before they started to bring these guys back from Europe, this was just people on the base who got sick, that you dealt with? Cause it was the base hospital, or did they already have patients? MJ: No, we always took care of the ones that they brought back. (13:03) JS: Now, what kind of accommodations did you have at Fort Sheridan? MJ: We had barracks. Bunk beds. �JS: How many women would they put together in a room, in these places? MJ: You know, I’ve been trying to think of that. You mean, like for sleeping quarters? JS: Yeah. MJ: I really don’t remember. But I’d say maybe thirty or forty. JS: Now, when you decided to join the WACs, what did your parents think of that? (13:34) MJ: Well, maybe they were happy to get me out of the house, to tell you the truth. (laughs) Because I was about twenty, twenty four. JS: Twenty-five, yeah. MJ: So I think they were…they were happy. My dad had been in the Navy, so…I should tell you that actually I wanted to join the Marines, because I thought the Marines had a more exciting life. And their uniforms were nicer looking, and you know, once a Marine, always a Marine. (laughs) And I couldn’t make it. And I ate carrots, until carrots came out of my… JS: But you couldn’t pass their physical? MJ: I couldn’t pass just the eyes. Just the eyes. JS: The eye test. MJ: So, I settled for the Army. But, Fort Sheridan was an interesting place, because Lake Michigan was right there. We had a few little walks on the beach, there. And we were close enough to Chicago so that we could go there for all the cultural activities. And I really learned a lot. I mean, I came from a small town, what I thought back then, was 100,000 people. Waterbury. But then when you get close to Chicago and see the mass of people… (14:59) JS: So you didn’t, like from Waterbury, you didn’t get on a train and go into New York City, particularly? MJ: Oh, New York City was our…we spent a lot of money in New York City. JS: Okay. So you had that kind of experience before. MJ: One of the…one thing about going to New York City was… of course, we had to keep scrounging for our money so we had enough to get there. But anyhow, there were five girls in that one particular group that I hung around with, and we went one day, and we were going to do so much, and one of the girls said, let’s go to the opera. So, I had no idea what the opera was �like at that point. So I said, okay, let’s go. So just before we went to the opera, there were some vendors on the street, selling orchids. No…yeah, orchids. Twenty-five cents. So well, we thought, we can spend twenty-five cents to have a corsage. So we did that and we thought we were really bigwigs, you know. That was fun. (16:16) MJ: And, at Fort Sheridan, all kinds of things to go to. I really liked it there. One of the nice things about Chicago was, or an unusual thing, was riding on the North Shore Line. They had a pot-bellied stove, I can remember, on that train. So when I went to visit Ed, when he was at the Veterans Hospital, that was in Waukesha, Wisconsin, so I’d get on the train at Fort Sheridan and ride to Milwaukee. And pick up and go to the Veterans Hospital. JS: So they had sent him from Fort Sheridan up to Waukesha, for the recuperation period? MJ: Yeah. JS: Okay, yeah. MJ: Yeah. There were so many things to go to. But everything was free back then. (17:06) JS: Now what did you like to do in Chicago? MJ: I liked to go to the museums. Because in Waterbury we didn’t have any. We had smaller ones, but nothing like there. JS: Yeah, cause Chicago at that point already had the Field museum, they had the aquarium. The Art Institute was down there, and so forth, yeah. MJ: I remember one time they gave us tickets to the football game at Northwestern. JS: Okay. MJ: That was fun. I don’t think I watched the game. I watched all the people around me. But, oh my golly, I can’t think. The food in Chicago was so good. Chinese. You acquainted with the Palmer House in Chicago? That was one of our…when we thought we were such big shots back then, too. Going to the Palmer House. (shakes head) That was fun. Um, I can’t remember what else. All the things that people pay to go see, nowadays. The Aquariums…oh, golly. I can still picture walking the street. (18:27) MJ: There was one place there, I can’t remember the name of the hotel, it was right on the main drag, I don’t even remember the name of that main drag anymore. JS: Michigan Avenue? �MJ: Michigan Avenue. And there was one big hotel there, and any service person that came in there had free room and board. So that really paid off. There were several of us stayed there several nights, you know, over the course of our time there. So… (19:05) JS: So now eventually, you meet this fellow, and you decide to get married. Um, you tell your parents at the last minute… MJ: Did we have to go back a little bit? How did that go? Oh, I know now what I’m thinking. He proposed and at the time, he smoked all these cigarettes. So, I said, no way. I’m not marrying any man that’s going to smoke a cigarette and put… JS: That’s the other part of the quitting smoking story, then? (laughter) Cause in his version, he just had a bet with a priest. (laughter) So he didn’t switch right away. MJ: I don’t know which came first. JS: Well, the priest was on the ship coming back from Europe. MJ: Oh, oh oh! JS: All right. Now this is why you talk to two people. (19:56) MJ: I had not heard that story, truthfully. But, I guess he picked me over the cigarettes. It paid off, didn’t it? JS: Yep. Yep. Still here. MJ: Oh, dear. So, we decided then, we’d get married at the [unclear] Chapel. And we had to let our parents know. And my folks came from Waterbury and his folks came from Greenville. And everybody met the night before the wedding. Which was, you know, when I look back on it now, it’s really comical. Wondering if, gee, I wonder if she’ll like me. But, at 23 or 24 years old, who cares. I mean, you’re your own guys then. So we had a military wedding right there at the chapel. Not a big one, but everybody came. (20:56) MJ: One funny part of that was my dad and I, like I said, we were always so close, and we were standing back in the entrance way of the church, and the music kept playing “Here Comes the Bride.” And my dad and I kept talking and talking. I don’t know how many times they played it. And Ed tells me, he thought he was being jilted, at the time. (laughter) But finally, I realized, gosh, I guess we better get a-going, so we walked down. And I can remember afterwards, Ed telling me he asked the minister, “what am I supposed to do?” (laughter) And the minister said, just stand there. Just say “I do” when you have to. JS: Okay. Now were you still in the WACs at that point? �(21:46) MJ: Yeah. JS: And then, did they make you leave once you got married? MJ: No. No, I stayed until, let’s see, what was it? We were married in October. I don’t know. It must have been November or December. I think we were home for Christmas, weren’t we? Here? For Christmas? JS: So basically, you were able to stay in until it was time for you and him to go? MJ: Right. (22:25) JS: Now were there other pieces of your family story that he left out that you want to get in? Cause how many kids did you have? MJ: When we came back, after we were married and came back here, our first son was born in 1949. And we lived here at the time. And then Ed started college, and while at college, our son Bruce was born, 1951. But over the years, we kept track of all their sports, you know, like all good parents do, and go to PTAs and all that sort of thing. And, I’m losing track of all my thoughts. They’re getting all confused. (23:14) JS: But there was a story about Bruce you wanted to… MJ: Yeah. Bruce, his son graduated from high school last year. And one of the big joys of his life was going to Alaska with his son, to fish. But previous to that, Bruce and Justin went three or four times to Canada, to get together, just the three of them. Which was three generations, which I thought was just super. And they did all their fishing up there. They have stories to tell. So both boys were really active. We’re really happy. And we have three grandchildren. And expecting another one, hopefully. Other than that, I don’t know… (24:23) MJ: Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. When we were married at Fort Sheridan, of course, they had a reception for us. And they came out with this big beautiful wedding cake. And, come to find out, it was made by a German prisoner of war. Who was one of the cooks, one of the p.o.w’s. And, Ed didn’t know about that until several months later. He probably would have thrown up at the thought of it. But that was interesting. JS: Yeah. Cause a lot of the guys talk about coming back and they’ll go to a meal around one of the big camps in New York, and the meals were all being served by German p.o.w.’s. Did you yourself see much of the Germans on Fort Sheridan? Were you aware of them on the base, or did you not…? �(25:11) MJ: The p.o.w.’s? JS: Yeah. MJ: We had a lot of them there. We had the…what did they call them? The S.S. troops. We had the bigwigs there. And, I don’t know. I didn’t seem to be frightened of them, but just the thought of them being there… Of course, they had to toe the mark. They were watched constantly. I often wondered what happened to them. Because it would be the same as P.o.w.’s over there. But…but quite a difference, because the German prisoners were really treated well. When they weren’t overseas. (25:57) JS: Well, some of them just stayed. They all had the chance to go home, and some of them found a way to stay in this country and are still here. MJ: I’m sure there are quite a few… JS: But they’re less likely to be the S.S. guys, though, than the regulars. But that was…and we were using them for farm work here in Michigan. They were all over the place. MJ: Yes. I think they probably went to farms. But am interesting, an interesting… JS: All right. Now think back to the time that you spent with the WACs, whether in Arkansas or at Fort Sheridan. Are there any other kind of particular things that kind of stick in your head, about that? Either individual people or things that happened to you? (26:47) MJ: I can remember one particular time that I got really close to a patient who had been in some kind of a wreck. And her face was just about shattered. And I was assigned to just take care of her. And I was with her just constantly, you know, for the whole shift. And I had to keep putting compresses on her face. Soothing her and trying to help her emotionally, and I remember her name. She was a lieutenant. Lieutenant Edith Rittenberg. And she was a wonderful wonderful lady. And she made it, she finally recovered. She didn’t recover there, but she went, I think she went to some big hospital out west. That was one where I felt like I was really doing good. (27:56) MJ: But at the Army/Navy General Hosptial, I can still picture those guys. That was heartbreaking. And that was just one small segment of the war. You think of the nurses that were overseas and had to do all that hard work. Tirelessly. They were on their feet constantly. JS: But in those days, it took a very long time to recover from wounds. And men would be in bed for months and months and months at a time, and somebody had to look after them and take care of them, so that went on for a long time. �MJ: Right. I was really happy that I went into the service. It’s just that the best part of it for me was meeting Ed. (28:38) JS: Did you find that having had that nursing training was helpful to you when you became a technician? MJ: Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially for the classwork. So. There’s so many terms that you better be familiar with, that you better be on your toes or out you go, you know. But I was really disappointed that I couldn’t finish nurse’s training. But it just wasn’t to be, so… JS: Okay. Well, in the end, you came out pretty well. MJ: Very well. Very well. JS: I’d just like to thank you for taking your time to add your story to the collection. (29:14) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JohnsonM1348V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Mae (Interview transcript and video), 2012 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-08 Description An account of the resource Mae Johnson was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, in 1919. She graduated from Leavenworth High School in 1937 and eventually went to nursing school. Because she could not finish nursing school, Mae traveled to California with a friend. After visiting California, she decided she would enlist in Woman's Army Corps (WAC) in New Haven, Connecticut. She was then sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia for basic training. After basic training, Mae was sent to Hot Springs, Arkansas where she worked in a hospital as she was assigned to the Surgical and Medical Wards. Once she was finished in Arkansas in early 1945, she was sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois where she maintained a similar position as before. While at Fort Sheridan she met her future husband and met many German POWs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Mae Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army. Women's Army Corps Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9be537c7fa04f21f04098104619ba804.pdf e8324aee8fa5faeb6d2d3ee424fd49cd PDF Text Text ��� https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d8f9b549e0189111213b9ab8b4e911a.pdf c4575f4eeb7629ebdeae9d0d344bd3cf PDF Text Text Balt. 7 Nov ? 48 My Dear Sir, On my return from Phila. [?] I was [?], I found your favor of the 4th. I am greatly obliged to you for it. It gives me to[?] some assurance of the vote of your State[?], �that I [?] when in your life[?] it note[?] of this[?] you risk[?] how before this better[?] I am [?] has gone [?] ever [?] of it in the majority have [?] not [?] 1500. By this time to morrow night [?] no chance know who is [?] I [?] Tyler is, & by an eminent electoral �majority. I shall not if he has 2/3 of the colleges. Sincerely Your Friend, Refverdy Johnson Nathan Sargent Esq Phila. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15461 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Reverdy Johnson, November 7, 1848 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1848-11-07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Reverdy, 1796-1876 Description An account of the resource Primarily illegible letter regarding electoral politics. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Hitchcock, Henry, 1829-1902 Biddle, Alexander, 1819-1899 Whig Party (U.S.) United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Mobile (Ala.) New York (N.Y.) Pennsylvania Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/642223265afc47c13051a17a95660f4d.pdf 5b57494129a98b2b2d2b36fb5b4058eb PDF Text Text ��� https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5ac17d3552419a4ffc1df423b808b467.pdf abc091f6d283774a83d9d8601f154fd7 PDF Text Text [Page 1] Balt. 26 Jan. 1848 My Dear Sir, Do me the favor to hold the enclosed [invoice?] from me until you can [pay?] it after I see you. [Later in [?] Senate to human [?] work. Let me know if it [?] you. Yours sincerely Reverdy Johnson �[Envelope] �[Envelope seal] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15462 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Reverdy Johnson, January 26, 1848 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1848-01-26 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Reverdy, 1796-1876 Description An account of the resource Letter regarding an invoice that was previously enclosed. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Kennedy, John Pendleton, 1795-1870 Whig Party (U.S.) Democratic Party (U.S.) American Party United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Philadelphia (Pa.) Pennsylvania Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9345983c6aa211974d3d71b16c196662.pdf 00d170940cb93f76ef73b826ff282ed8 PDF Text Text ��� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW25888 Title A name given to the resource Letter about the Lincoln-McClellan campaign by Reverdy Johnson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1864-10-10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Reverdy, 1796-1876 Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865 Johnson, Reverdy, 1796-1876 Description An account of the resource Letter about the Lincoln-McClellan campaign by former Attorney General, Reverdy Johnson supporter of McClellan. Believing that Lincoln's actions on emancipation and other areas to be illegal, he states "I hope you can keep the case before the public. Unless we are willing to submit to near tyranny, it is impossible but that this last outrage of our Pres. will meet with the sternest rebuke on Nov. 2. The letter is dated October 10, 1864 from Baltimore and marked "Private." Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bb68308bcef85da3eaca912660ef29b0.m4v f08b147bd6d2833a7b1e7899a5f54992 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b458e21fb624306ba8a1fe3aed51a20.pdf e4dc53e55c581131532b2627cebad78e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Richard Johnson Vietnam War; Cold War 20 minutes 45 seconds *Note: Times in the outline correspond with the timecode (02:27:42) Early Life & Enlisted Service -Born in Lincoln, Kansas, in January 1932 -Drafted into the Army in October 1953 -Served in the Army for two years -Got an early discharge so he could go to seminary -Didn’t want to go back into the Army after his time as an enlisted man (02:28:30) Becoming a Chaplain -After completing seminary, he worked as a pastor -National Guard needed a chaplain -He took the job for the extra money -Enjoyed working as a chaplain in the National Guard -Served with them for three years (02:29:03) Active Duty & Stationed at Fort Riley -Decided to go on active duty -Assigned to Fort Riley, Kansas, in October 1965 -Originally assigned to the 1st Infantry Division, but it was being prepared to go to Vietnam -Transferred to the 2nd Brigade of the 9th Infantry Division (02:29:40) Tour in Vietnam -In January 1967, he was deployed to Vietnam -With the 9th Infantry Division for his entire tour in Vietnam -Transferred to the 1st Brigade -Operated in the southernmost part of Vietnam in the Mekong River Delta -Had mechanized infantry -Went to Bearcat Base -Part of a ready reaction force in the area -He tended to three battalions and worked with the Catholic chaplain -Did that for his entire tour -Left Vietnam on January 2, 1968, barely missing the Tet Offensive in late-January -Watched tracked vehicles from his unit getting destroyed on live TV in Saigon -Knew the exact vehicles and the men in those vehicles -He wanted to go back to Vietnam to be with them -Felt like he couldn’t do anything to help them -Held services in the field and at Bearcat Base during stand downs -Usually held six services on Sunday �-Flew out to companies in the field using the battalion commander’s helicopter -If he couldn’t use that helicopter on Sunday, he went during the week -Whenever the chaplain showed up, it was “Sunday” -Flew out of brigade headquarters -On one Sunday, he was at Bearcat Base after doing four services in the area -In the mess hall eating lunch with the helicopter pilot -Planned on going to the hacienda base at the rubber plantation -Note: Most likely the Michelin rubber plantation near Saigon -Heard the alarm go off at the airfield -There was a firefight north of Bearcat and his pilot had to leave -Meant that Richard would have to drive to the plantation in a jeep -There had been an ambush on the road to the plantation -Decided to go with the chaplain’s assistant and Catholic chaplain -Made it to the plantation without incident -Saw where the ambush had happened -Reminded that he was in a combat zone when he had to deal with soldiers killed-in-action -Mostly lost soldiers to ambushes -Held 30 memorial services during his time in Vietnam -Fewer services than the average because his unit had tracked vehicles -Armored and heavily-armed; kept the enemy away (02:40:52) Coming Home & Stationed at Fort Ord -Good to come home after Vietnam -Assigned to Fort Ord, California, to work with basic trainees -A lot of them were from Los Angeles and opposed the Vietnam War -One man was gay and wanted to get out of the Army -Counselled him, and he eventually reconciled being gay in the Army -Reconnected with his family -Read Dr. Seuss books to his children every night (02:45:29) Stationed at New Cumberland Defense Depot -Stationed at New Cumberland Defense Depot near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania -Made the post chaplain at that depot -Worked with the military and civilian personnel -Held Bible studies -Felt like having a civilian church -Being at New Cumberland was one of the best assignments he had (02:46:34) Reflections on Service -Feels that the biggest contribution of the chaplaincy is helping soldiers with moral dilemmas -Helping the men understand the nature of good and evil in the world -Understanding the complexities of the world and the necessity of fighting evil -Felt more prepared for the chaplaincy than for the ministry after seminary -Had seven years of experience as a pastor, and two years of military service � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JohnsonR2062V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Richard H (Interview outline and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-10-26 Description An account of the resource Richard Johnson was born in Lincoln, Kansas, in January 1932. He first served in the Army as a draftee and was inducted in October 1953. He served for two years before getting an early discharge to go to seminary. Upon completion of seminary he joined the National Guard and served as a chaplain for three years before deciding to go on active duty. He was assigned to Fort Riley, Kansas, in October 1965 and originally worked with the 1st Infantry Division then was transferred to the 2nd Brigade of the 9th Infantry Division. In January 1967 he was deployed to Vietnam and served with the 9th Infantry Division. He mostly tended to troops in the Mekong River Delta, conducting services in the field and at Bearcat Base. He left Vietnam on January 2, 1968, and was stationed at Fort Ord, California. He was also stationed at the New Cumberland Defense Depot, Pennsylvania, and served as the post chaplain. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Richard H Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keizer, Herman Jr. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/68cfec5319c4250a12ca1c2dc0e38264.mp4 9daf9d3e382a35085146b24a192f4617 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e75648f805dd75ad826109db8961659a.pdf 144f2c4b9e96bb4c9978dd4e739ba6db PDF Text Text William Johnson (1:17:06) (00:03) Background Information • • • • William was born November 21, 1923 in Grand Rapids, MI William graduated high school and then Enlisted in the Air Corps weather school In 1943 he was released to the draft He was drafted on September 2, 1943 (2:49) Training • • • • • • • William was sent to Fort Custer for basic training He was then sent to Camp Gruber, OK and was assigned to the infantry First he was in the 42nd infantry and then he transferred into the 79th infantry division William was assigned to communications in the regiment HQ message center He was part of C company They sent him to Camp Phillips, KA for 2 months William was then sent to Camp Miles Standish, MA and boarded a ship to go to Europe (8:24) Deployment • • • • • • • • • • • They met the convoy east of Greenland He was on a converted cruise ship and it took him about a week to get there It was the middle of winter and sometimes the waves were about 20 feet They unloaded in Liverpool and were trucked to Manchester William was in England until June 6 He was picked to go ahead of the division in a small group and left for Normandy on a Victory ship There were a lot of casualties on the beach and there was still fighting going on in the area They had to wait for another division to clear out a village behind the beach before they could move in William was shot at when he would deliver messages in a jeep from HQ to battalion The messages were sent by sealed envelopes and telephone They delivered the Stars and Stripes newspaper (18:20) Paris and Germany • • Their division moved just north of Paris and while they were there Paris was liberated William didn’t go into Paris �• • • • • • • • • • They went to Lorraine and then Alsace His division was some of the first troops in Germany There wasn’t much resistance because the Germans were worn out He was able to go in a concentration camp when they liberated it When the war was over he was part of the Army of Occupation in Czechoslovakia William was in Germany on VE day They were scheduled to go to Japan His unit went to the border of East and West Germany He lost some hearing from the bombings beginning at Normandy William was also hit in the shin with shrapnel at Normandy, but didn’t want to get taken to the hospital for it (38:50) Heading Back to the US • • • • • • • • • • He went into combat duty for 2 weeks and did guard duty William had enough points to go home and he was just waiting for the orders He took some weekend passes and went to the Riviera William got on a boat at Marseilles around Thanksgiving of 1945 It was a liberty ship and it took them 29 days to get back across William and a lot of others got sea sick because they were on a smaller boat They got off in Virginia and took a train to Atterbury, IN William was discharged and went back to Grand Rapids He owned a gas station and a plating company William is the only one left out of the 8 in his message center unit � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonW Title A name given to the resource Johnson, William (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, William Description An account of the resource William Johnson served in a regimental communications center in the 79th Division in Europe during World War II. He landed on Utah Beach with an advance party shortly after D-Day, and participated in the campaigns in Normandy, France and Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dilly, Keaton (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/59c690c567d3212017a84c97c897dc9d.mp4 cea5fad8c006e5b5347931e22d7f3b78 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cc79b17246b3657b57dd4594299b2206.pdf babd53aa782af21e5a538e8478a82b0d PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: William Johnson Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with William Johnson of Holland, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, so Mr. Johnson, start out with some background on yourself. And to begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: Well, I was born in Union, Mississippi, September 14th, 1936. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: I’ve lived there until probably 9…Between 9 and 11 years. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: It’s been such a long time I can’t remember exactly how old I was. Interviewer: Okay. So, what was your family doing for a living in Mississippi? Veteran: We had a—first, when my mom and dad got married, they stayed on my grandparents’ farm and farmed there for a couple years. And my dad worked during the winter at a sawmill to save money because his stepdad was—gave him 20—each child got 20 acres of land to farm. And he, being the stepchild, got the worst part of the land to farm. So, he worked during the winter to get fertilizer to use on the farm when he started planting. And so, it ended up he was �2 the best farmer out of the group because he was smart enough to use fertilizer. And he did that for a couple years. And then his real father helped them to buy his own farm. Started out with 30-40 acres and then each year—each 4 or 5 years—added 10, 20, 30, 40…Up to—ended up with 200 acres of land. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We raised corn, cotton, lots of vegetables. Truck farming, primarily. By that time, he had bought a little truck. So… Interviewer: So, as I was saying—200 acres is—it would sound to me like a lot for an African American family to have. (00:02:41) Veteran: Yes. Definitely. Interviewer: Do you think 20-40 acres— Veteran: Most black people in that time—and I say black now—but during that time, they were known as negroes, but the white folks would call them niggras. And it finally got around to instead of niggras, it was nigger. So anyway, yeah it was a large farm for a family like that. You know? Most of them are sharecroppers. And come to think of it, I think we were the only one in the immediate area that had—that owned the farm land. Interviewer: Okay. And what were relations like between your father and the white farmers or the suppliers or people he dealt with? Veteran: It was very difficult. There was no financial assistance if they needed to buy a piece of equipment. Couldn’t get a loan. So, most farmers—and my dad was included—used horse and mules to plow and had a wooden wagon to haul stuff. And if you had a piece of equipment that �3 broke, you’d go down, go to the nearest town, to pick it up. And he was waited on at the last person to get waited on. I remember as a kid about probably 9 or 10, I went to town with him and he was standing at the counter waiting to get ordered his—what he wanted, get what he wanted—and a white person walks in and the clerk says, “Nigger, stand over there. Wait until I take care of him.” You know, I don’t remember how long he waited, but it could have been—he could have been there all day waiting if someone else kept coming in, a new customer kept coming in. But that was the way things were back in…you know? Interviewer: Yep. (00:04:46) Veteran: Late 40s. Interviewer: Right. Okay. And so, eventually your family leaves Mississippi. So, how does that come about and what happens? Veteran: Well…I am not sure exactly what the thought process was for my dad, but you know, later on I kind of figured out that he probably thought that he wasn’t going to be very successful doing what he was doing because of the, you know, animosity. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And the difficulty they had to—that he had getting support. So, he decided to sell the farm and move to Michigan. We moved to Detroit in phases. I guess my mom and 2 daughters and 2 little brothers caught the train. And myself and my dad and 2 other brothers and came up by pickup truck. It was probably mid to late September. And by the time we got to Kentucky area it started getting cold. You know, you’d hit the top of the truck and get the attention and say, “Let’s switch. Cold—it’s too cold back here.” So, we got to Michigan and by that time my dad had came up, you know, 6 months or 4-5 months earlier and bought a house. So, we were �4 immediately housed. And my brothers and I and sisters went and started school. And because of the school situation in Mississippi, we were all far behind. So, by the time I turned 18, I was still trying to get out of high school. I mean, get out of 9th grade. (00:06:40) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And so, I decided heck with this. I will never graduate. So, I joined the military. Interviewer: Okay. Let’s fill in a little bit here of the family story. Why did your father pick Michigan? Veteran: He had a couple—3 brothers—already in Michigan. And of course, they had come back down to visit and he liked what they were saying, you know? About life in Michigan. Interviewer: Okay. And what kind of work did your father find when he got there? Veteran: When he got here, he started working for one of them auto manufacturers. He and my two older brothers—they all worked at the…I forget the name of the company but they no longer exist out in southeast Michigan. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Detroit. South of Detroit. Interviewer: Alright. Okay so when do you actually enter the military then? What year? Veteran: 1955. March 28th, 1955. In Detroit there is a little Army base: Fort Wayne in Fort Wayne, Michigan. And I caught the bus from my house and went to Fort Wayne and spent the first night there. And they process you in and send you off to another processing station, which was Fort Knox, Kentucky. Two days later we were in Fort Knox. That’s where you get all of �5 your equipment issued, clothing. Get your hair cut. No hair on your head pretty much. From there, I took my first plane ride to Fort Carson, Colorado. Took basic training. Interviewer: Okay. Now, why did you choose the Army? (00:08:31) Veteran: Well, I had 2 brothers that had been in the Korean War. They were home. And my older brother was in World War 2. He was on a ship going to Japan and he was part of the occupation force. And he spent a couple years over there and then he got out. So, you know, Army was…I didn’t know anybody that had been in the Navy or the Air Force. Interviewer: Okay, so that was what you knew. Veteran: So, that’s what I knew about the service. Interviewer: Alright. And did your brothers have basically a positive view of the service? Or…? Veteran: Yeah, they did. They did. One was a tanker and one was a truck driver. Pickup—I mean, a two and a half ton. Interviewer: Deuce and a half. Veteran: Yeah, deuce and a half. And yeah, they had a good experience in the Army. They both were drafted so they spent two years and they both went to Korea. Interviewer: Alright. Then, so you go now—okay, Fort Carson, Colorado is where you do your basic training. Okay, describe that experience. What was that like? Veteran: That was exciting to me. Because before I went in, I had—you know, I figured that whatever I faced, I was going to do exactly in my best. You know? And so, it was exciting. And everything that we were taught, you know, I was pretty well successful doing. And following �6 instructions and…I didn’t make honor graduate at the end of the training, but I was up there. And pleased with my accomplishments, really. Interviewer: Alright. Now, how did— (00:10:21) Veteran: Because you do things—you do stuff that you didn’t think you would ever be able to do. Interviewer: Okay. Were you in pretty good physical shape when you went in? Veteran: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, before I went in? Eh, I wasn’t in very good shape. I was weighing 136 pounds. And I don’t know. But I did all that physical training that they required and I was well trained. Interviewer: Okay. And in general, how did the drill sergeants treat you? Veteran: Well, at Fort Carson, the drill sergeants were very good. And they treated us all equal and no real problems with anyone. And you got to know a lot of guys and where they were from. And the one thing that got me was a lot of them would talk about their father had been in the World War 2 or in the military. And of course, my father never was in the military. And I kind of felt lost, you know? Wasn’t part of that. But then I knew I had brothers that was in Korea, so you know. It was good. Interviewer: Alright. Now, how much emphasis was there on discipline, following orders? Veteran: Oh, very much so. Very much so. And you know, the drill sergeant would tell you something and he’d say, “Everybody understand that?” and everybody would yell, “Yes, sergeant.” So, it was—he was requiring you to understand what he was saying and express that to him. �7 Interviewer: Right. Veteran: That you understood. Interviewer: Okay. And did you have—get into trouble yourself? Veteran: In basic? Not really. I had one—another soldier, as we would say, picking on me. And one evening, I caught him in the latrine—that’s the restroom, you know. And he and I was the only one in there. And I attacked him and knocked him down. And I had no more trouble with that guy. So, he didn’t bother me anymore after that. (00:12:47) Interviewer: Alright. But you didn’t get in trouble with the sergeants or anything like that? Veteran: No. No, he didn’t tell and I didn’t tell. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: That was the first case of don’t tell. Interviewer: Don’t ask, don’t tell. Veteran: Don’t ask, don’t tell. Interviewer: There you go. Yeah. Okay, so how long was basic training? Veteran: 8 weeks. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: At Fort Carson. Then I went to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for another 8 weeks of training—advanced training. Interviewer: Okay. And what kind of training were you getting there? �8 Veteran: At Fort Leonard Wood, we was getting trained on how to lay mines, how to build bridges. It was the engineer outfit. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And the word got out that we were getting to—close to the end of the 8 weeks training and the word was passed that the whole outfit was going to be staying at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, joining the 18th Engineer Brigade. And nobody wanted to stay at Fort Leonard Wood because they had one little town with one stop sign. So, most of us volunteered to go to airborne training. There was a recruiter up there; came in and we were all sitting in the theater listening to his spiel and watching some films. And by the time he finished the film session and talking, half of the class signed up to go to airborne training. Interviewer: Okay. (00:14:12) Veteran: So, we went to Fort Campbell, Kentucky and joined the 11th Airborne Division and went to jump school right there at Fort Campbell. Interviewer: Okay. And now I want to back up again just a little bit. They—the Army sorts out where they want to send people. And usually if they are sending you to the engineers, they are assuming you have a certain level of aptitude or something for that. Do you have any idea why they sent you to the engineers rather than just infantry? Veteran: No, I don’t because I didn’t know anything. No, no, nothing about engineering. I guess they send you where they need you. Interviewer: Yeah. Well, you had…You—I guess like even the farm equipment you worked with— �9 Veteran: Well yeah. Interviewer: --would have been something. So, you have— Veteran: Some basic knowledge of tools and stuff so… Interviewer: Okay. But they must have thought something good about you if they are sending you there because they don’t send stupid people there. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. So, you go—okay, but then you decide that life at Fort Leonard Wood is not for you so off to airborne. So, how did the jump school work? Veteran: You had three weeks of jump school. First week was basically physical training and training about the parachute ad how you put it on, how you jump out the door. And but most of it was physical training because you need to be in good physical condition. The parachute was pretty heavy. You had two on: one on your back and one in the front, a reserve. So, the first week was—like I say—physical training mostly and introduction to the techniques that they were going to use to train you. Second week, you started jumping out of a tower with a parachute on, hooked to a cable that ran down 100 yards, 200 yards, to a mound. It gives you an idea of coming down through the air with the parachute on. And so, you did that for two weeks—I mean, one week. And the next week you are jumping out of an airplane. (00:16:32) Veteran: You know, by that time, they have taught you all the techniques to use, how to jump out, how to—what you do when you do jump out. You look up at your canopy as it opens after you count to 4000: 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, then you look up and if your parachute is open, you reach up and grab the lines and help guide it to where you want to go. And so, that went well. �10 The first—we always say the first jump, you don’t know what the heck you’re doing. You are just there. And you jump out and hope that everything goes well. By the time the fifth jump, you know, you think you’re expert at it. But my fifth jump—and the fifth jump mostly is—most of the time—is at night. I jumped and my parachute opened partially. I look up and it’s what we call a Mae West. The line is over in the middle of the parachute so it is divided in two bubbles. So, I pulled my—I started looking around and I think I said something vulgar: “Oh shit.” And so, I pulled the parachute, the reserve. By the time the reserve opened up well, it slowed me down. I hit the ground. You know? But after that, that was the only incident I ever had making a parachute jump. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I made a total of probably 260 total. Interviewer: Wow. Veteran: Through my career. Interviewer: Alright. So, you finished jump school. And then what happens to you? (00:18:14) Veteran: This was—I finished in late September/October. And December, the entire 11th Airborne Division went to Germany on different increments. Got on a plane—a train rather—and went to New York, got on a boat. It took nine days to cross the ocean. And went to Germany. On the ship, a lot of troops got sick—seasick. So, when I went on, I knew that people would get seasick. I asked one of the crew members, I said, “What can you do to keep from getting seasick?” he says, “When the ship’s store opens, go down and get you a box of saltine crackers.” He said, “When your stomach starts feeling a little lousy, eat a few crackers.” So, that’s what I �11 did. I didn’t get sick. Most people did. You go to a dining hall and you got long tables and everybody would sit down with their tray. And if you don’t hold onto your tray when the ship rocks, your tray is going to go down and when it comes back you don’t know what’s going to be on it. You know? Could be some of your food or all of your food or all of your food and somebody else’s food and where he got sick. Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: So, after we got to Germany—landed at Bremerhaven, Germany and went to Munich, Germany. Part of the division was in Augsburg, part in Munich and a couple other small towns around that area. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We were in—the 11th airborne division was training, always training and having a good time. At some point, too much of a good time. So, the division got deactivated and we became part of the 24th infantry division. Interviewer: Okay. Can you explain the good—too much of a good time part? (00:20:17) Veteran: Oh…Well, we liked the good German beer too much and the good German fräuleins. And some got—well, a lot of fights between different groups. Different groups—I mean, regular airborne unit and non-airborne unit. The non-airbornes were called legs. Airborne unit didn’t like legs because during the basic—during jump school, they told you an air—a trooper—a paratrooper could beat any legs anywhere in the world. You could take on 5 and come out ahead. And a lot of the guys believed that. So, we got people that would go to training, live fire training. In one case, a kid brought a hand grenade back and threw it in a bar. So, after that we—the division was deactivated. �12 Interviewer: Okay, so you were just a little too—their training worked too well. Veteran: Yes. The training was too good. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: In some instances. Interviewer: Okay. What was the racial climate like at that point in the Army units? Veteran: Well…In the Army—in the unit, it was okay. You know, no real problems. But when you left the base, going downtown anywhere, it was segregated, you know? Where even the bars in town you got to know where you could go. And if you went to the wrong place, you might get beat up. You know? So, because we all come from back here in the States and we had different ideas about things. Interviewer: So, you brought that with you. Did the Germans seem to care or did they treat you all pretty much the same? (00:22:20) Veteran: Oh, they treated us pretty much the same. But they had names for us, you know. And they would call—they said I was like an Oreo. You know, black on the outside but white on the inside. You know? I don’t know why they called me that, you know? I am sure it was more than just me. Interviewer: Yeah, in the more recent American sense, there’s different views of that. But part of it was I get the impression you could probably work with or get along with pretty much anybody. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, I— Interviewer: You might not have fit the stereotype so well. �13 Veteran: Right. That’s probably it. Interviewer: That confused them a little bit. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they didn’t know where I was, you know. Interviewer: Alright. Now, how long did you stay in Germany? Veteran: I stayed in Germany from…We left the Campbell—Fort Campbell—end of December. Got to Germany mid/late January. The entire division, we stayed there until December ’58. Interviewer: Yeah. And then the latter part of it now, your unit has become part of the 24th Division. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: 8th division, 24th regiment—yeah—instead. Okay. Veteran: Then I go to Fort Bragg from there. Interviewer: Now, once you switch to the other unit, did you lose your airborne designation? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Yes. Veteran: Yes. They would say when you are an airborne unit, you are paid $55 a month and you had to jump every 3 months. But after the 11th was deactivated, the airborne status discontinued. Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: Until you join another airborne unit. �14 Interviewer: Right. So, for the time being, you were a leg. (00:24:12) Veteran: Yeah, I was a leg. Interviewer: Right after all of that. Now, while you were in Germany, did you get to travel around at all or see much of Europe? Veteran: Well, I went to Paris a couple of times. After I was there for a year and a half, maybe two, I bought a car. I was the only lower enlisted person with a car. And it was a 1953 Mercedes. Nice car. Nice car. And we—I drove to Paris twice with another friend of mine—a guy. He and I was pretty good friends so…And we went there once with a tour group of guys and their wives. And while there, well, he and I kind of split away from the group and went down to Rue Pigalle, you know? And enjoyed that scenery. Anyway, the day we were leaving, we all got on the bus. Well, we came home—we came to the hotel late. He and I were sitting out on the sidewalk having a last beer. And we all got on the bus and the driver was going to leave and the manager of the hotel came out and said, “Okay, I need to know who was in room blah blah?” Sims and I raised our hand. He said, “Can we see your luggage?” He goes out, opened the luggage. He opens his, no problem. I open mine: there are all the towels from the hotel in my luggage. Yep. So, they took the towels and… Interviewer: Now, did you put the towels in your luggage? Veteran: No, I didn’t put the towels in my luggage. Interviewer: Okay, your roommate did. Veteran: My roommate did. But you know, we didn’t get too upset about that. They took the towels and we were on our way. �15 Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: The next time we went to Paris, we drove my car. And we were having a good time and I lost my wallet somewhere. My legal driver’s license, my leave papers. And so, we went to the embassy and they said, “Well, maybe you better stop at the local police department and let them know what happened.” And so, they said—the police said, “Well, the thing you have to do now is go back to Germany.” So, we left a little sooner than we wanted to, but everything worked out. (00:26:49) Interviewer: Alright. Well yeah, Paris is known to have pickpockets then and now. Veteran: Oh yeah. During that time, there was a war going on between the French and the Algerians. And a lot of Algerian nationals would be out on the street and they wanted to buy anything you had. They could buy your dirty clothes, whatever, because they were supplying their people back home. But yeah. Interviewer: Alright. So, now are there other things from that tour in Germany that stand out for you? Or things that happened with you? Veteran: Yeah. We were—since we were an airborne unit, near the barracks we were living in was a large open field. So, we had about 500—maybe 600—troops out spread out across the beginning of this open area double arm length apart. And we walked for about a mile looking for big rocks; anything dangerous that a trooper might make a jump and land on, fall. One of the guys found an old German—part of an old German rifle. Just the metal—the barrel—and some of the mechanisms. Anyway, we took it back to the barracks. And he was down—we had a work room downstairs in the basement and he was down there. And I walk in and he says, “Bill Johnson,” he was from Memphis, Tennessee, “Bill Johnson, would you take this cleaning rod? �16 You see that cleaning rod I stuck in the rifle?” He had it in a vise, right? He says, “I am going to put my hand here and see if when you hit it, I am going to see if whatever is stuck in there was going to come out.” I hit it one time and bam! There was a round. He lost his middle finger. (00:28:51) Interviewer: Oh… Veteran: So, Walter Jones—from that point on we called him Four Fingers, you know. But yeah, that was a—it was a good tour. A lot of good training. A lot of good training. Sometimes we had to go 80 miles away for a training facility. There was a placed called Hohenfels and it was a real muddy place, you know. But had a lot of good training. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, how long was your original enlistment for? Veteran: Original enlistment was for four years. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Because when I took the exam, I scored lower than average. So, in order to be—to enter the service, they tack on an extra year. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? Interviewer: So, there were— Veteran: To give you the time to train you. Interviewer: Or something like that. Veteran: You know? �17 Interviewer: But you seemed to have trained pretty well pretty quickly so that worked well. Veteran: Yeah, that worked out okay. Interviewer: Now, at what—now when you first enlisted, were you thinking of making a career in the Army or just doing one hitch and then going on to something else? Veteran: After basic training, you know, I was so indoctrinated into the discipline and the surrounding of the—you know—camaraderie. I thought about staying more than just one tour, even that early. Interviewer: Alright. And now, at what point then did you decide to re-enlist? Was that while you were still in Germany or…? (00:30:31) Veteran: No, after I got back to Fort Bragg in ’59, I re-enlisted. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. So, at Fort Bragg what unit were you with? Veteran: I was with the 504 [504th Regiment], 82nd Airborne Division. And once again, training was the word, you know? Always training. And…And then I—okay yeah, in—at one point, the Cuban Missile Crisis was going on, happening. By that time, I was married, I had one child and I was living on base in quarters. So, President Kennedy was making a speech about the missile crisis. The Cuban—the Russians had missiles in Cuba and we were going to quarantine the island, right? So, I told my wife, I said, “I am going upstairs to put my clothes on because the—I will be going to the unit any minute.” And before the president got off the TV, the phone rang and says report to the unit, you know? So, we—the next day, we organized and got on planes and �18 went to Eglin Air Force base in Florida. And we were ready. You know, they issued us ammunition, gave us shots, and we sat under the wing of the aircraft in the shade for a couple of days. You know? Until they—the Cubans—I mean, the Russians—decided to take the missiles out. Before that or after that, the 82nd was involved in a domestic problem in Mississippi. (00:32:33) Veteran: So, we went to Mississippi to check—there was an individual from the Air Force, a retired veteran, wanted to go to University of Mississippi: Old Miss. And then people didn’t want him there and the governor—Ralph Barnett, the governor, said he couldn’t attend the university. So, the 82nd and the 101st plus a couple of military units in the 2nd Infantry Division out of Fort Benning—a part of it went to Mississippi. And there, the federal government got involved and decided that if the—we were—I was on the Columbus Air Force base reservation. And they were going to send troops into town into the university. And at one point they said, you know, commanded the captain. Our captain says, “Okay, Sergeant Johnson, Sergeant such and such, I want you to tell all your black troops that they are not going to be involved in this operation.” And you talk about a bunch of pissed off people. I said, “Wait a minute…” You know, in a lot of units, most of the leadership is two leaders. Platoon sergeants, squad leaders were black soldiers, you know. So, they were going off with half of their leadership. And there is a book I have that a guy wrote later on about that and I didn’t know—nobody knew why. Who gave the word? Well, it was the division commander there on the ground in Columbus—I mean, Mississippi or from the Pentagon. But later on, found out that it was the president and the chief of staff decided that they didn’t want to have black guys out there with long guns facing the white guys. (00:34:43) �19 Veteran: So, anyway but really that was a sad case, you know? For most of the—well, for most of the people in the division because they didn’t want to be split up like that, you know. But so, it only lasted about 5-6 days and we started withdrawing back to Fort Bragg. Interviewer: Right. Yeah, because it was James Meredith who had— Veteran: James Meredith was the individual’s name, yeah. Interviewer: Yep. Okay, so you were a distant witness to that event. Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: They didn’t let you go. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, we went. I was in Mississippi, but once we were there, you know, we couldn’t participate. Except at the end, you know, they finally reneged up in Washington and said okay, disregard that. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? But by that time, things were quieting down you know. A lot of folks were arrested and so we left there and came back to Fort Bragg. Interviewer: Alright. And so now how long then do you stay at Fort Bragg? Veteran: I left Fort Bragg sometime in December, I think it was, of ’59. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: No, ’63. Interviewer: Yeah. �20 Veteran: Yeah, ’63. Interviewer: Yeah, because you are still at Fort Bragg at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis in ’62. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: You’d be there for that. Alright. Okay. And then, what unit do you go to next? (00:36:13) Veteran: I go to—I get an assignment to go to Germany. The 8th infantry division, 509th airborne infantry brigade. And so, I go there and I stay until ’66. Part way—partly—part of my assignment was to go from the 509th—I went to the division headquarters as part of the inspector general team, where a group of individuals that are trained in certain fields go out to inspect all of the other units within the division. My job was to—for physical security and classified documents. Physical security would mean that I checked on the security of all the weapons, ammunition, storage units. And at that time, there was a new directive out that we had to check on this particular type of weapon that they called a COFRAM, which was—meant that—a COFRAM was Controlled Fragmentation Ammunition. And we saw the results of that during the Iraqi war, where the planes dropped little cluster bombs and they burst out, you know. One bomb, it contains many, many mini bombs. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know? So, that was the beginning of that exercise, you know. And I didn’t know what it was totally, what it was about, until the Iraq war. And I said, “Oh crap, that’s what that is.” Anyway, so I did that until 1966 and then I got ordered to go to Fort Benning, Georgia. �21 Interviewer: Okay. So, in this tour in Germany, where were you based? Veteran: I was in Mainz, Germany, and then I went to Bad Kreuznach, which was about 25 miles away. That was the division headquarters. Interviewer: Okay. Did you have your family with you? Veteran: I did. I had 3 kids by then. (00:38:18) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Two girls—no, a girl and a boy and a girl. A set of twins. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Okay, so how did your family like being in Germany? Veteran: They liked it. I am sure, you know, they missed their—the kids missed their friends, the wife missed the relatives. And—but she had—she got a job over there and worked for the base that I was working on for a non-profit organization that ran clubs and stuff like that. But it was interesting. Interviewer: And did they have American schools on the base? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: That kind of thing. Veteran: Right, right. Interviewer: So, there were American kids at least to hang out with. Veteran: Right. Oh yeah, yeah. �22 Interviewer: And that kind of thing. Alright, now by this time now we are getting into the mid- ‘60s. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: The Vietnam War is— Veteran: ’66. Interviewer: --is heating up and all of this. Were men starting to switch out and go to Vietnam? Veteran: Oh yeah. Yeah, a lot of the guys left Germany and went directly to Vietnam. You know, I had three friends I know of, three—two guys that worked for me over there. Two of them got killed after being there less than a month. You know? And so, when I left Germany, I went to Fort Benning, Georgia, knowing that I was going to be going to Vietnam. I am starting taking some Vietnamese language training. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? And I got to be pretty good, to understand and to speak. You know, ask the questions that I needed to ask. You know? Except when I got to Vietnam, I was interviewing a prisoner and I come up against the word that I wanted to use and I couldn’t think of it Vietnamese-wise. I started speaking German. He looked at me like totally puzzled. I thought— later I thought I should have been speaking French, you know? Because the French had been there and he may have understood French better than Germany. Interviewer: Right, but you can have that instinct where you are speaking in a foreign language just—and so, you just shift into the foreign language you know best. (00:40:30) �23 Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: That kind of thing can happen to you. Alright. Now, what did your wife and family think about your going to Vietnam? Veteran: Well, they were a little…Well, expected it, you know? Because I—everyone around me was coming and going in and coming back from Vietnam. Some coming, some not coming back. So, we were in Georgia. My wife was going to school, a business school. And before we left— before I left Fort Bragg—Fort Benning—she was going downtown to this business school. And more than once, she would call me and say, “I got a flat tire.” So, come to find out, there were some young white boys, I guess, going to that school and didn’t like the idea that she was going to the school also. They would prop nails behind the tire and in front of the tire. You know? Just jam it in there where it wouldn’t fall. Didn’t matter which was she went, she was going to get a flat tire. You know, so that happened a couple times. And finally—I had to go down and change the tire. Either get it repaired or…So, finally I went in and talked to the school people and told them what was going on. And but they found out who was doing it and eventually, you know kicked them out of school. But she wanted to stay there. So, I made arrangement—well, first of all, after I got orders, family could stay on the base in the quarters they were in. Because two doors down there was a family with three kids. I got to know them and her—the wife and the kids—but I never did see the husband. I asked her one day, I said, “So, where is your husband? You know, where does he work? You know, what outfit is he in?” (00:42:32) �24 Veteran: She said, “Oh, he—two years ago he went to Ohio to see his kids and while he was up there, he killed his ex-wife and he’s in prison.” You know? And I am thinking I should be able to keep my family on the base if they have been here for two years and he’s in prison. I requested through the base to allow my family to remain there while I was in Vietnam for a year. And of course, they came back and said, “No.” And I said, “Wait a minute, this is what’s happening: this family is here, been here for two years. I know because I have been here almost two years.” And they said, “Well, no, that can’t happen. That can’t happen.” I said, “It’s happening.” So, they called back. The colonel called me and says, “Would you come up and let me—I need to talk to you.” He said, “Yeah, I guess that’s going on. Somebody messed up.” They didn’t catch it. Because he wasn’t in the military anymore. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know? But they still can’t keep your wife, keep your family there. So, we—I found an apartment off base. And she wanted to stay on base for 30 days. I said, “Okay.” And then she was going to move to the apartment later after I left. I get to Vietnam; three or four weeks later, maybe a month, six weeks, I get a letter and she’s—instead of going to the apartment, she goes to a dealer and buys a mobile home, puts it in this park. And everything was going okay until three or four more weeks, two months or so, get a letter that said the Ku Klux Klan burned a cross in our yard. You know? And I am thinking…By this time, I am the platoon sergeant of a recon platoon with 42-44 people. And I am thinking: why the hell am I over here with this going on with my family? You know. (00:44:34) Veteran: And so, I called her and talked to her and she said, “You know, we are okay but the— you know, that’s what happened. And nothing since then.” Anyway, during this next 2-3 weeks, I started getting terrible headaches. And what reason—from what, I don’t know. The doctor says, �25 “Well, maybe it’s something out in the jungle that makes your sinuses swell and you can’t get any relief.” You know? So, one day I just about passed out and they evacuated me to the hospital and ran a bunch of tests. And they said, “Yeah, your sinuses are totally swollen and lots of pressure.” You know? And I am in the hospital one morning—about 4 o’clock in the morning, the nurse wakes me up. You know, says, “Sergeant Johnson, wake up! Wake up!” I said, “Well, what?” She said, “I got to give you a sleeping pill.” I said, “Damn! I am already asleep. Why are you waking me? I don’t need a sleeping pill. I am asleep. The best sleep I have had in 4 months.” You know, so she was just—she was upset because I was yelling at her, you know. But that’s the way I felt. You know? Interviewer: Alright. Now, we are a little bit ahead of ourselves here in the story. When you were—you had come back from Germany, you go to Fort Benning. Were you getting additional training or preparation to go to Vietnam? Or what was happening there? (00:46:10) Veteran: Yeah, I was—well, at that point, I was the operation sergeant at the airborne training school. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And our job was to process and care for the students that were coming in to go to the school. And so, I was the operation sergeant. I did training, scheduled the write-ins, scheduling units where to go where and when. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know? �26 Interviewer: And what rank did you have at that point? Veteran: At that time, I got promoted there to an E-7. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Sergeant first class, E-7. And there was a lot of guys that had been at that school for 67, 8 years. And when I got promoted, they were upset because here I am a newcomer and I get promoted ahead of them. But I had been in assignments that, you know, I performed well in. And by this time, the promotion system was such that you as a commander submit people to the Pentagon to be promoted. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And where you have to write the reason why you think that this person needs to be promoted immediately, as soon as possible, you know. So, that’s the way the system was working. And you know, and they gave you the history of your service, the background: where you have been, what you have done. And these guys had been in the school doing the same thing… Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Veteran: You know? Not doing anything different. Interviewer: And you had had some pretty important assignments. You had been overseas for two tours and all of that kind of stuff so there was a lot that went into that at that point. But now, did you have the option to stay at the school? Or did you know that that was just temporary? Veteran: I knew it was temporary. I didn’t particularly want to stay there. No. �27 Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Veteran: So, I went to Vietnam and the colonel talked to us and says—there was two of us E7s—he said, “Well, you are going to the recon platoon, and so are you, you are going.” We had two separate platoons, right. One with 42 men, 44 men, you know. Interviewer: That’s over in Vietnam once you— Veteran: In Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah. (00:48:27) Interviewer: But let’s back up a little bit now. When do you get orders to go to Vietnam? Veteran: Well…In…Let me see, early—mid March/April, I think. Probably April/May. Interviewer: Okay. Of ’67? Veteran: ’67, yes. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And then, what’s the process to get you to Vietnam? Veteran: Well, you—you know, you take care of your family, you sign the necessary paperwork so she can act in your absence in any way, shape or form. And then, you clear the post and away you go. Catch a plane and go to—in my case, I went to my—I had two brothers—3 brothers living in the San Francisco area. So, I go to San Francisco for two days and see my brothers and then go to Seattle, Washington. And that’s where I catch a plane and go to Vietnam. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: We land in Clark Air Force base in the Philippines and from there to Vietnam. �28 Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Cam Ranh Bay. Interviewer: Okay, you land at Cam Ranh Bay. Alright. And do you come in during the day or at night? Veteran: During the day. Early morning. Well, mid-morning. Interviewer: Okay. And what’s your first impression of Vietnam? Veteran: Hot, hot, hot. Hot, hot. Interviewer: And you are from Mississippi… Veteran: Yeah, and I am from Mississippi. But it was hot. Hot and humid, you know. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: And you see troops, soldiers, walking, doing their job. You know? And I am thinking well, they can do it, I can. You know? Interviewer: Alright. So, you land. And do they give you any kind of orientation for Vietnam once you arrive? Veteran: No, they send us to wherever you were going. I went to Cam Ranh—Phan Rang— which was north of Saigon, about a couple hundred miles, or maybe; I don’t know for sure. But anyway, I went to Phan Rang and that’s where the headquarters for the 101st was. (00:50:22) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? And they give you a week and a half of training. You even go out on patrol so they teach you about the surrounding areas: how the jungle is and how you can walk and not �29 be able to see 5 yards off the trail. You know? And so, you had a week of that. And using— firing a weapon. They train you on a weapon because that was around the time where the M-16 was introduced to Vietnam and a lot of folks were having a problem. Even before I went, they were reporting problems with the M-16 jamming during the—inappropriate times. Interviewer: Yes. Veteran: You know, when you are firing at someone. So, after that you catch—you now where you are going, what unit. And they send you out by helicopter in the jungle to the unit. I get off the helicopter and the rest of the platoon is about 100 yards away. And somebody had come over to the helicopter and gets me and they escort me over to the company, or the commander. And on the way over there, some sniper up in the hills is firing at me. I said, “Damn, these guys are trying to kill me already.” I just got off the helicopter. Anyway, I joined the unit and the captain of the company was running the platoon that I was in. Interviewer: And which battalion were you joining? (00:52:02) Veteran: It was 2nd battalion, 502nd. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And so, now you are coming into this, you have had a lot of experience in the Army, but none in Vietnam. And none with jungle warfare or anything else like this. Veteran: Well, I went to jungle warfare training school in Panama. Interviewer: Okay, so you did do those. Veteran: For two weeks. Interviewer: Okay. �30 Veteran: You know? And… Interviewer: So, what were— Veteran: You learn how to survive in the jungle. You know, things that you can find to eat if you get separated from yourself, you know, people. Interviewer: But you hadn’t been in Vietnam. Veteran: No. I hadn’t been to Vietnam. Hadn’t had anybody shooting real bullets at me. Interviewer: Okay. Now you are a platoon sergeant for the recon platoon… Veteran: Right. Interviewer: And a reconnaissance platoon—so, basically, that’s for the whole battalion, essentially. Veteran: Right, right. Interviewer: And they operate pretty much independently. Veteran: Independent of the companies. Any of the other companies. Interviewer: Yeah. And they work in small groups? Veteran: Well, we…Under normal circumstances, we’d be small groups. But in this case, because you are operating out away independent of the company, they kept us together for the most part. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Veteran: 30-40, 35 people. �31 Interviewer: Alright. And you are going in here, you don’t have any experience. How did you approach your job, or how did you—did you try to learn from the other guys? Veteran: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the sergeants that were squad leaders, you know, I talked to them when opportunity came in the evening when we stopped to set up a defensive position, you know. And find out how things have been going and what techniques—special techniques—that you use to stay safe. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: It—during the darkness. And one of the things that we would do is in the evening, just before dark, we’d stop if we got a resupply of supplies, rations. That particular time, we’d stop, break down all the rations issued out to the individuals. And stack the boxes up and burn them or sometimes leave them there and leave that position just before—right at dark—and go down 200 yards away and set up position. (00:54:34) Veteran: Because eventually, I mean, you have spent enough time there that anybody around, they know you are there. So, when it gets a little dark when he can’t see very good, you know, in the distance, you can move. That prevents you being ambushed at night in that position. And a lot of times you leave a squad where you got resupplied and if the VC comes scrambling or running through your leftovers, you know, you take care of them. You know? Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, stuff like that— Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: --you’d learn from the individuals that had already been there. �32 Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you have a platoon—an officer as platoon leader? Veteran: Off and on. Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Most of the time, I was the guy. Interviewer: You were in charge. Veteran: One time, I mean, we got a call—I got a call that says you’re having an O-6—not an O6, but…I forget what they called them—going to be landing, taking over. I said, “Okay.” So anyway, we got the lieutenant in and he—I introduced myself. And I says, “Did they give you a map, lieutenant, when you left CP?” “No, sergeant.” I says, “Okay, I have the map. When I give you the map—when I give you the map, you’re in charge. Otherwise, you just stick with me.” Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? Because you don’t want to introduce him to the action right away; let him get his feet on the ground. Interviewer: Okay. Now, what kind of terrain were you operating in? Was it mountains, jungles…? (00:56:12) Veteran: Mountain. Interviewer: Swampy? Okay, yeah. Veteran: Mountains. Mountainous. Nothing real mountainous but hills and anywhere you went was pretty much jungle because—I mean, but on the other hand, you had trails. No roads to �33 speak of, but trails where the local VC or the local population used as a way to get around. They’d go from point to point through a trail. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: There was no roads. Interviewer: Now, would you use the trails yourself or stay off them? Veteran: Yeah, we tried—we used the trails. Yeah. And the most of the time, the VC would make a signal and use the little rocks or sticks, tie them up together, have one pointing in a particular direction. You know, that’s where it tells the guy when you get to this point, go that way. You know? And so, we’d pick up on that and, you know, you find information on the trails. So, that’s why we used the trail. But sometimes you have to go right straight through the jungle. And in order to do that, you got to have a couple people up front with machetes whacking your way through. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And that’s so noisy. Interviewer: I guess sometimes though, in some areas, trails would be booby trapped. Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Or you could be ambushed there. Veteran: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, so you have a point man. Every time you move, you have a point man and a slack man—that means a guy that is covering the point man. But the point man is quite a ways out and he’d see anything. And the saying was: point man better be alive or he is dead. You know? So, we had this one kid that was a point man. We called him �34 Tennessee. He—every time we moved, he wanted to be the point. We get to a location and we had to go to where the battalion…Yeah, battalion headquarters was. So, when we got there, the colonel is wanting me to send three people with the radio relay station up on the mountain up there to increase the radio communication. So, I thought Tennessee been out on the point so long, he needs the break. You know? So, I told him that he and two other guys were going on the radio relay station. So, they get up there and a big storm—a couple days later there is a big storm that comes through. And they were I guess apparently too close to the antenna. Lighting strike kills Tennessee. (00:58:52) Interviewer: Oh wow. Veteran: So…You blame yourself in a way. But on the other hand, you are thinking you are giving the guy a break, getting a relief from doing what he normally does. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know? Interviewer: Yeah. There are just some things you simply can’t control. Veteran: Yeah. Right, right, right. Interviewer: And it would have been somebody. Veteran: Oh yeah, it didn’t matter—it wouldn’t have made any difference who it was. Somebody was going to be there, you know. And that was the same time these news people came by and wanted to talk to me and interview me. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And what we were doing. And I just basically ignored them, you know. �35 Interviewer: Okay, now had they come because of the lighting strike or did— Veteran: I don’t know. That’s why I didn’t want to talk to them about it, you know. Interviewer: Alright. Now, you did not spend—how long do you think you spent actually in the field with your unit? Veteran: With the unit, probably two months. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: At the most. Interviewer: And then at that point, you had the other problems with the— Veteran: Yeah, the problem with the home—back home. And headaches. My medic was feeding me Darvons, which was a painkiller— Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: --that we used over there. And at one point it just got to the point where I couldn’t function. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know? (01:00:27) Interviewer: Okay, so once you get through that, where were you—when you were in the hospital, where were you? Veteran: I was in Quy… Interviewer: Quy Nhon? �36 Veteran: I was in Tam Ky. Interviewer: Tam Ky, okay. Veteran: Yeah, Tam Ky. And either Tam Ky or Chu Lai. Interviewer: It might have been Chu Lai because Chu Lai was a bigger base. Veteran: Right. Right. Well, I was in Tam Ky first and then went to Chu Lai after that because at Tam—at Chu Lai is where the colonel decided I wouldn’t go back out to the recon platoon. I would stay at the battalion as the S-2 sergeant because the S-2 sergeant was getting ready to leave to rotate. He was a friend of mine. We had known each other for many years, you know. So, he was going to go back home and I was going to take his place. Interviewer: Okay. Explain what an S-2 does. Veteran: An S-2 is the—he gathers the intelligence information from the units out in the field and try to evaluate and determine exactly what’s—what the enemy is doing. And posts that and briefs the colonel, the commander. And whether he takes actions… Interviewer: Right. Okay, so you are— Veteran: Giving the information. Interviewer: You are the intelligence officer. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Right. Okay. Or sergeant, in this case. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Alright. Now—and was that at Chu Lai or was that somewhere else? �37 Veteran: That was Chu Lai. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Now, and this is now the fall of ’67 when you had gotten into— Veteran: Yeah, in probably…No, early April/March. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: No—yeah, fall. Fall—November, yeah, because we left Chu Lai and went back to Phan Rang. Interviewer: Okay. (01:02:17) Veteran: And for Thanksgiving. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And from Phan Rang we spent 4 or 5 days there. And at that time, the S-2 officer— Captain Anderson was his name. We had the officers—well, we had Quonset huts, you know. Wooden buildings where the troops would have to sleep and, you know, live. Anyway, Captain Anderson was cleaning his weapon. In a room next to him was two communications officers. So, he takes his 45 out, right? Pulls the slide to the rear, let it go forward, and takes the clip out, pulls the trigger, goes through the wall, hits the intel—I mean, communications officer in the chest and kills him. Interviewer: Wow. �38 Veteran: You know? No problem. He was the S-2 officer. And after that standdown, you know, we had an investigation and determined it was just a freaking accident. And so, they took Captain Anderson out of the S-2 and made him the company commander of Charlie Company. So, we went from Phan Rang to Song Be, which was south, just north of Saigon. This is just before the Tet Offensive. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know, so while we were still in Song Be and Captain Anderson was approaching his DEROS—date of rotation back to the States—he was walking around the perimeter saying goodbye to his troops. And there was—he walked across the trail. Down the trail was a VC. Saw him, shot him, killed him right there. You know, I thought man how crazy is that? (01:04:17) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know, he accidentally kills a guy and the last day he is in the field, he gets killed. Interviewer: Okay. Now, during this time when you with the 101st and before the Tet Offensive, how common was contact with the enemy? Veteran: Quite frequently. Small, small contact. You know, a squad maybe now and then. Interviewer: Okay. And were those Viet Cong at this point or were you seeing North Vietnamese regulars? Veteran: VC. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Mostly VC. �39 Interviewer: Alright. Now, as the Tet Offensive approached, were you getting any indications that there was more enemy activity or something might be happening? Veteran: No. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: No, nothing. Interviewer: Not where you were. Veteran: No. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Because at that time, things were pretty quiet. I think the NVA was back over by Laos and Cambodia. You know? Because they used the Ho Chi Minh Trail. That’s the way they came down. Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: And but—and made their way inland without being discovered. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, when the Tet Offensive started, we left Song Be and went to Saigon, got on the LST—something…a transported boat. Interviewer: Yep. Landing Ship Tank. Veteran: Yeah, right. Interviewer: A big, big flat-bottomed transport. �40 Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Old World War 2 things. Veteran: So, we go to Da Nang. All the way up the coast to Da Nang, which was quite a trip. Anyway, while we were waiting to load the LST, we were sitting—guys were sitting on the— with their rucksacks on against a bunch of Conex containers—you know, big metal containers that they used to send supplies overseas. Interviewer: Right. (01:06:03) Veteran: And one of the guys got up when he was getting ready to leave and when he got up, the pressure off the Conex container opened—the door flew open. And it was filled with Johnnie Walker whiskey. Interviewer: Oops! Veteran: And I didn’t know it until later, you know? So, half the guys was half way drunk by the time we got midway between Saigon—I mean, the Saigon and Da Nang. Interviewer: Da Nang. Veteran: And so, the word was out: anybody that had alcohol better throw it overboard. You know? Interviewer: Okay. Now, when the Tet Offensive first began, did your unit or base get attacked or was it quiet where you were? Veteran: It was attacked. We went from Song Be to Bien Hoa, which was the original home base for the 101st. And that’s not too far from Saigon. �41 Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, we got word that there was action west of Saigon. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, we went down and got on the LST and went north. They already had enough troops in Saigon. Interviewer: Right. Okay. But at Song Be, you didn’t get attacked? Veteran: No, we didn’t. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Veteran: No. Interviewer: Alright. So, you have been— Veteran: So, we go to Da Nang and stay at Da Nang a couple or three days. My wife’s boyfriend at that time was stationed in Da Nang. She keeps asking me did I see such and such? I said, “No. If I did, I wouldn’t have known him in the first place.” Anyway, we stayed there and we started sending out patrols. There was a Marble Mountain? Yeah, I guess there was. Interviewer: Marble Mountain was there, yep. Veteran: Yeah, and there was the Hai Van Pass and every time the Marine tried to send a convoy to Phu Bai or Hue, they’d get attacked. So, we were operating out of there for a while. A couple—3-4 weeks. And then we moved from there to just south of Hue. Interviewer: Okay. (01:08:14) �42 Veteran: And from there, we went out west towards A Shau Valley. We started moving that way. And the Marine Corps was—the Marines were pretty much taken Hue on the—you know— under control. And finding so many dead bodies in a huge mass grave just west of Hue. You know? So… Interviewer: And that was the place where the local Viet Cong had rounded up various people they did not like. Veteran: Right, right. Everybody they didn’t like— Interviewer: And killed them. Yep. Veteran: --and didn’t know, you know, that knew that—where they were and what they did. Anyway, so, we were out about 15 miles west of Hue at a Marine—we relieved a Marine unit that was operating in that area. But they left and we went and took up the same position. And every position—it was just left as the old Vietnamese say, beaucoup. So much ammunition, grenades and small arms ammunition. You know? And mud. And we cleaned that up. So, I was with the colonel one day and we went down to the helipad to meet a helicopter coming in; the division commander was coming in. So, we go down and meet the division commander and the sergeant major. And the sergeant major was talking to me, he says, “Sergeant Johnson,” he says, “can’t you get starched fatigues out here?” I said, “Sergeant Major, I am glad to get clean fatigues.” You know, I mean this was a guy that’s been in a garrison forever. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Veteran: You know? Thought I had starched fatigues. But anyway, about a week later a fire base about 5 miles away gets bombed. Aircraft—some of the aircraft had come in from the north. They had certain places that they would drop their ammunition. They didn’t want to land with it, �43 right? And nobody told them there was a fire base there. So, they lost the…a handful of people killed. And some wounded. More wounded. So, the colonel and I go get in a helicopter and go down there and see if we could do help in any way, shape or form. So, we sent some communications equipment to reestablish, you know, communications there. (01:10:40) Interviewer: So, this was the North Vietnamese resupplying their units in the field? Veteran: No. Interviewer: Or you were—your own people were dropping resupply? Veteran: Right, right. They were—had been bombing up north and on their way back they would take—pick a place to drop their whatever was left. Interviewer: Right. Okay. So, it’s the leftover bombs. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah, okay. Veteran: Yeah. And so, somebody forgot to inform them that there was an Army unit there, you know. So… Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Things happen. Interviewer: That would be— Veteran: Shit happens, as they say. Excuse me. Interviewer: It certainly does. Okay. �44 Veteran: So, from there we go from the rock pile I think they called it. We go from there west toward A Shau Valley and set up Firebase Bastogne. You have probably heard of Bastogne. Interviewer: I have heard of it, yes. Veteran: Yeah. So, Bastogne—we were there and then we went to Veghel, which was even further west into the A Shau, near the A Shau. And we stayed there a couple—4 weeks or so. By this time, we were in April. Maybe May. And from there we went up back northeast to another firebase. And I didn’t particularly like being on the firebase because the VC knew where we were. When you are out in the recon platoon, they don’t know where you are because you don’t know where they are and they don’t know where you are. But that’s where they get the opportunity to lob those 132 [122 mm] rockets. Interviewer: Right. (01:12:25) Veteran: You know? And so, every place we went, you know, we got rocketed pretty much. Interviewer: Would you get mortar fire too or mostly— Veteran: Mortar—oh yeah, mortar fire. Yeah. Yep. Interviewer: I think the closer you were to the DMZ, the more likely you were to be in trouble too. Veteran: Yeah. Right. Yeah, you didn’t have too far to carry those rockets. Interviewer: Okay. Now, was there less combat on the ground as you got farther into the year or was…Or were things still pretty hot? Veteran: Oh yeah, it was hot. It was hot. �45 Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, because you see after Tet, these—a lot of the VC and the NVA units pulled back, but they didn’t disappear. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know? One of the—we had a battalion from the 82nd attached to us. Maybe a company. Anyway, they were out in our area of operation. And I was on the radio talking to the guy, one of the radio operators. And he said, “We are receiving small arms fire.” And all of a sudden, he started yelling, “They are coming out of a tunnel!” And that was the last time I heard from him. You know? So, they lost a bunch of folks during that time. So, the—you know, the NVA didn’t disappear, they just moved away and hid. Interviewer: Yeah, because it was a lot of fighting in that year following the start of Tet. Veteran: Right. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yep. Interviewer: That all kept on going. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Now, did you have any close calls yourself? (01:14:14) Veteran: Some dumb close calls. I—when I was still with the recon platoon, I—we were giving instructions to go to a certain point up on the hill. There was a hospital, a VC hospital, up there. So, we were making our way up the hill. Every now and then, we would come up against a wooden—looked like an outhouse, but no entry. Totally enclosed all the way around. You know? Because we were so close, I didn’t want to blow it up. But that still puzzles me today what it was. It was probably a storage place for weapons. But anyway, so we were making our way up �46 the mountain, up to the side of this hill, to check out this hospital. We got there. On the way up, I am walking behind 3 or 4 troops and I see a M-26 grenade, and it’s our grenade. I pick it up, put it on my belt. Yep. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Put it on my belt and I keep it, you know? But it could have been a booby trap. Interviewer: Sure. Veteran: Very easily. And I would have been gone. And along with my radio operator, you know. But anyway, we get to the hospital. Most of the patients were gone. The doctors, a couple of nurses there and—with the kids. Probably some people that lived in the local area and that was forced to work up there. Interviewer: Right. (01:16:02) Veteran: So, that’s about the only thing we found. And we destroyed the hut and the equipment that they had. And so, our guys carried 3 or 4 kids on their shoulder back down the mountain and brought the women down and hauled them in a helicopter and had them evacuated, you know. Because what are you going to do with them? You know. But you know, that’s—those are the kind of close calls you—dumb. Dumb calls. One—at one point we were at a fire base and the recon platoon that came up was going to be resting a couple of days. The helicopter pad was down below. And it was dug out along the side of a hill where there would be flat for the helicopter landing. But so up here, you know, it gets higher. And but the recon platoon people were down there, sitting. And I said to make sure you sit down, do not get up. You know? Because when helicopters take off, sometimes they tilt one way or the other. So, the—one of the best recon platoon sergeants we—platoon squad leader we had was sitting there. The helicopter take off and it tilt; took his head right across the top. I called the helicopter back and the medic �47 got on the helicopter with the kid, with the sergeant, and took him back. Before we got to the hospital, he was dead of course. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know? A lot of crazy accidents killed people. Well, you know there’s 500… Interviewer: Talking about sort of different experiences in Vietnam. Now, I know at one point you got wounded. Can you talk about that? Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, we were at a—I was on a firebase at that time and the VC broke into the perimeter. And you know, on the firebase we have the artillery batteries; it is located there. And the mortar platoon. Mortar platoon is located there. And we gave a medical staff there. So, all of a sudden, I am sleeping. And we build our own little hooch or a bunker. Interviewer: You’re in a bunker. Yeah. (01:18:31) Veteran: Yeah. And I am sleeping with the company commander of the headquarters company; he’s in the same hooch. And explosion starts going off. And I mean different locations. I jump up and I—you sleep with your shoes on, your weapon is right next to you. I jump up and I look out and I see the cap—the colonel—standing, staggering around. And his—where he was sleeping was covered—I mean, a pile of rocks to keep from small arms fire hitting him. But the VC had broken into the perimeter and apparently knew where he was. They threw grenades right on the tent. You know, which was just a little pup tent. And he got wounded. He was standing around, staggering. I ran over and grabbed him and escorted him to the medical tent. And from there I go—they took care of him. From there I go check the perimeter, make sure all the troops are okay. And I was leaving one position, talking to the guy. He was okay, no problem, hadn’t seen anything. And go to the next place down: there’s a guy laying on his back. The medic was �48 already there. Laying on—yeah, on his stomach. He was already back there. And he got a bunch of shrapnel in his butt. And you know, and this…Why did it—I think the other guy was—came up walking up to the location and looked down. He said—I think he was a medic, and I think he said—I know he said, “Oh my god!” I said, “Get the hell away from here!” I said, “You’re going to cause the guy to go into shock.” I mean, blood was just oozing out of him, you know. (01:20:27) Veteran: And so, the medics were there taking care of him. And the mortars were firing off around the perimeter outside of, you know, our perimeter. By this time, the VC had pulled back. And so, I was making my way around to check on each position. And some small arms fire was coming up the hill, and also a grenade. And that’s when I got injured in the cheek. And I thought well, man if it was a bullet, I am glad I had my mouth open. You know? Because it came from on an angle like that. And anyway, so I—everything by this time, the Spooky was up dropping flares so we could see. You know, turning the night into daylight. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And the colonel was in the tent by the morning. And what do you call that? Mini guns were circling, firing all around. We sent out patrols the next day and found quite a few bodies. You know, the mini guns must have got them. But the colonel didn’t come back to the battalion because he was wounded. The next time I saw the colonel was in 1990-something. And he was introducing his wife to me. He says, “And I think this is the guy that probably saved my life.” You know? I said, “No, you were okay.” I said, “I just got you to the—made sure I got you to the medics.” You know? But he was just—the same guy that just got awarded the Medal of Honor for a Korean War action. �49 Interviewer: Wow. (01:22:16) Veteran: Korean War action back in the Korean War. That was just the war he was upgraded from, you know. Interviewer: Right. Yeah, they are doing some of that now. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, so he is 95 now. Interviewer: Okay. And what’s his name? Veteran: Puckett—Colonel Puckett. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Ralph Puckett. I think his first name is Ralph. I didn’t even call him Ralph. You know? Interviewer: No. You would not at that point. Okay. And then I think you also at some point received a Bronze Star. What was that for? Veteran: Yeah, that was after I even got back from Vietnam. I was at Fort Bragg by this time, you know. And they had an awards ceremony; presented a Bronze Star to me. And I guess the sergeant major from that action put me in, you know, I guess. Interviewer: Okay, yeah. That would make sense. Alright. Now…As we move on in ’68, you are getting close to a year in Vietnam. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So, under what circumstances do you leave or how does that process work? Veteran: Well, I was—during the whole time, I kept telling the colonel—asking the colonel: when can I go on R and R? I was thinking about having my wife meet me in Hawaii. �50 Interviewer: Right. Veteran: A lot of married guys were doing that. And he said, “Well, wait until the next—the end of the next operation to get started.” You know? And that next operation gets started. So, finally I says, “Colonel, I am going to take 3 or 4 days off and go down to Saigon—Da Nang, rather.” They had a China Beach down there. You could spend—get a little hooch on the beach and spend time down there. But at the same time, my wife’s brother was in the Marine Corps, stationed in Da Nang. And I located him and I met him and talked to him. And he says—he says, “Oh, by the way, my mother is down in Georgia taking care of your kids.” He says, “Carol is in the hospital.” You know? So, I said, “Well, cripes. I guess I better get back up to the unit. They’ve been probably trying to contact me.” By the time I get back up there, the officer in the rear, in charge of the rear area, said, “When are you supposed to rotate? DEROS?” I said, “Around the 1st week of July.” He said, “Well, get your stuff together. We are going to send you out now because—” it was—must’ve been around the 20th of June. (01:24:52) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Or at least something like that. So, I packed up. I had a couple—I had an SKS weapon that I wanted to bring back with me. In order to do that, you have to go to Saigon to get it approved to bring it back. So, I said, “Forget about that.” You know? So, 3 days later I was on the plane coming back to the good old U.S. of A. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Went back down to Fort Benning, Georgia. My wife was…She was out of the hospital by then. So, I sent my mother-in-law away. And then I got—I knew where I was going: to Fort Bragg. So, we packed up and went to Fort Bragg. Before we left Fort Benning, I had this—she �51 bought this trailer where you could fold it up to a single wide, right? So, I had to get equipment to do that and I did that, contacted an outfit to move it to North Carolina. And we drove to North Carolina and I got an assignment to the S-2 sergeant of the 505 infantry brigade. Interviewer: Regiment. (01:26:16) Veteran: Regiment. Yeah, at that point, yeah. Anyway, so I stayed there and I went to Puerto Rico once or twice for training. And that’s—about a year later I got orders to go to England. Interviewer: Okay. And what was that assignment? Veteran: Well, that assignment was a—I was assigned to the SILK PURSE Control Group, which was controlled by the USEUCOM—U.S. European Command. And—which was in Stuttgart at the time, the headquarters was. But we were in England. And the purpose of that mission or that outfit was to provide a survivable command post for the U.S. military in Europe in case of a nuclear war. So, we had 6 KC-135 aircraft, which was an old model of the Boeing 707. It had all the equipment that you’d need to communicate with anybody in the world pretty much. And we had equipment onboard where in case of a war, you needed to get down—not the aircraft itself, but it had cable that dropped down to a couple hundred feet off the ground where you could communicate through that cable to the military in the command JCS—Joint Service Command. And so, we did practice that once or twice. And each time, you had to cut it before it could get back into the aircraft. And we also had guys—an Air Force guy onboard our aircraft, and I think each one of the aircraft because you’d fly 8 hours flight after you’d get level—flying level—you’d go x number of feet high. (01:28:24) Veteran: And you’d contact the aircraft that’s already on station, and relieve them, and you’d take charge of the operation from that point until 8 hours later, and then another one would �52 come. Sometimes, because we were in Germany—England—sometimes we couldn’t land back in England because a lot of fog during that particular time of year. So, we’d land in…At first, we could land in... Well, Qaddafi—where is Qaddafi from? Interviewer: Libya. Veteran: Libya, yep. We had a base in Libya that we could land. We had a base in France we could land, but France kicked us out, so did Qaddafi. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, Scotland—we had a base in Scotland we could land. We had a base in Madrid, Spain, so we would land in Madrid, Spain most of the time and spend the night and then take up a position the next day, whatever, the hour we started a new mission—started the next mission. That lasted…Let me see, I got there in ’69 and we left in ’72. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And very enjoyable assignment. Interviewer: Okay. I mean, did the—did you again have—did you have base schools there? Did your kids go— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: Kids had the school that they could attend. Just walked right down the street to the school. And… �53 Interviewer: Now, would you travel at all with your family or do any tourism? Or just in England or…? Veteran: In England, let me see…No, we didn’t because my wife’s—it all started, her illness— she had a diagnosis: paranoid schizophrenic. You know? So, she was in the hospital at Fort Bragg a couple of times. And we got to England and she was in the hospital quite often. So, at the point where it got—had to get a…someone to come in and watch the kids when I am off flying. Interviewer: Right. (01:30:26) Veteran: On duty. And so, that was pretty hectic at times. And sometimes, you know, she’d stay at the hospital 3-4 weeks and then come home and be fine. And before you knew it, things turned sour again. So, yeah, the kids went to school and did very well. Met a lot of friends—I mean, acquaintances that they got to know and enjoyed the stay. We didn’t do much traveling. We did a lot of local travel. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And go to local towns and that, you know. Interviewer: Okay. Yeah. Veteran: Went to London and I saw Hair, and that was the first time I saw a crew onstage butt naked. Interviewer: Yep. Probably true for many people in Europe. Veteran: Yeah, yeah. I thought what the heck? Interviewer: Okay. �54 Veteran: So, we came back from England. I wanted to stay longer in England, but they said— this was in ’72 so the war was still going on in Vietnam. They said, “Well no, you can’t stay because you will probably be going back to Vietnam.” You know, so I got an assignment to— before I got the assignment, they contacted me and said I wouldn’t be going to Vietnam but I was going to Michigan to work with the Michigan National Guard Advisory group. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I spent 4 years doing that: from ’72 to ’76. That meant going from Wisconsin to Indiana to Grayling, Michigan…Anywhere where the National Guard was training. You know, particularly during the summer. You know, two weeks in Minnesota, Wisconsin—sometimes spend six weeks in Wisconsin because one unit would come for two weeks and the next unit would come. You know, so the same thing with Grayling, but it was close enough where I could come home. You know? I was still living in the Selfridge Air Force Base in Mount Clemens area at the time. (01:32:39) Interviewer: Alright. And that’s the whole period—I mean, now Vietnam is really winding down. Vietnam actually ends. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, Vietnam was winding down. I didn’t have to think about having to go back there. Because when I was there, when I left Vietnam, I had made up my mind that I wasn’t going back. I had been in service 12 years when I went to Vietnam. And I decided, if necessary, I’d give them my 12 years and get out because it seemed to me that the Americans were doing most of the fighting and the VC—I had to—interpreters with every company on the ground. And one time, the—all of the interpreters all of a sudden showed up at the firebase. And I see them getting off the helicopter. I go out, I said, “What’s going on? You can’t be leaving your �55 company.” “Well, it’s a holiday. We go home for the holiday.” I said, “You get your butts back on that helicopter and get back out there with that unit.” I said, “All those guys out there? They would like to go home for the holiday too.” You know? So, they all reluctantly got back on the helicopter, you know. Interviewer: Did you have much contact with the Vietnamese civilians? Veteran: No. Not at all, pretty much. I visited a—what do you call it? A massage parlor one time. And I said, “I don’t need to go back there.” You know, they wanted—they would give you a massage and they wanted to go more than a massage. Interviewer: Right. (01:34:18) Veteran: And I said, “No thank you.” And that was the only contact I had with—and I could— you know, I saw civilians walking down the street. Interviewer: Right. And there were the ones who were in the hospital that you had to remove and that kind of thing. Veteran: Right, right. Interviewer: Now, did you have civilians who would work on any of the bases? Veteran: Yeah. Oh yeah. A lot of civilians that worked on the base: laundry, barber shop, BX. You know? And when the Tet Offensive happened and tour—why, on that tour, Phan Rang and a couple of the other bases—you know, when the Tet Offensive happened, they found most of them killed on the perimeter. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. �56 Veteran: Because they were working but they were VC also. You know, you never—you can’t tell. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know, no background investigation takes place. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. So, you—now you have this assignment in Michigan. I mean, and what—and that’s your last assignment. At what point— Veteran: That wasn’t my last assignment. Interviewer: How did you—did you decide to leave the service or were you told it was time to go? Veteran: Well, I was going to try to go back to Europe someplace. I said, “I’d like to get a—” I called the Pentagon, talked to my guy up there—I said, “I’d like to go back to Germany or England, you know.” He said, “No problem, no problem.” He promised me that I would be—this was in the early 70— Interviewer: ’76 now? Veteran: ’76, yeah. early ’76. He said, “No problem. We will have you there back by September.” I said, “Good, because I have kids still in school and they need to get back in school in September if we are going to be moving.” And about a month or two later, I get orders to go to Korea. Interviewer: Oh… (01:36:11) Veteran: And I called the guy back. I said, “What’s going on with this?” I said, “You said you were going to be able to get me back to Europe someplace.” He said, “Well, we see you have �57 never been to Korea and you got to go to Korea before you go back to Europe.” I says, “You’re right, you are absolutely right. I have never been to Korea, and guess what? I am not going. I am going to retire.” And that was the day that I made up my mind to retire. Now, I should have thought a little bit more about this because I had 21 years and 5 months and a few days. If you go 21 years and 6 months and 1 day, you get additional money. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know? So, I cut myself short by a week or two. You know? So… Interviewer: Alright. So, once you left the service, then what did you do? Veteran: Well, I was going to take 6 months off and do nothing. You know? That lasted about 4 weeks. And I moved to Holland, Michigan. My folks left Detroit in ’62 or ‘3, something like that, and moved to Holland. They had bought—my dad bought about 26 acres of land and was out in the country, farming and selling vegetables. Anyway, I decided that we’d go over there to visit. And I decided that’s where I would like to raise my kids because I could have had a job just out of Mount Clemens, working for Ford Motor Company and making good money. But that was too close to Detroit, as far as I was concerned. Because my kids had been kind of isolated their whole life, you know, living on military bases and not exposed to a lot of nonsense. So, that’s why I moved to Holland. (01:38:12) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And that’s where all of the kids have graduated from high school. Interviewer: Now, did you find a job there? �58 Veteran: I did. I worked…Well, I went—I decided I was going to do just about anything to keep busy. So, I went to this outfit that take rows of aluminum and make different stuff, you know. So, I went over there and I knew—my wife knew the family that was—the lady was the secretary in that office. So, I stopped by one day and I says, “I’d like to see about getting a job.” I forget her name; she says, “Sure! No problem. Fill this—just put your name and phone number and address and the sales officer will call you.” He called me and I go in and for the interview. And he asked me what I’d been doing for all these years, you know. And I started talking about my military career and my service and my experience and what I did. And when I got to the point of the airborne command post in Germany—I mean, England—he was very interested in that. And the next day he called me, says, “Go see this doctor and get a physical and you can start Monday.” You know? And he says—when I come back Monday, he wanted to see me—he says, “And what do you have in mind for the future?” I said, “well, I’d like to take your job.” But I worked there about 6 months and maybe a little longer. And a prison opened about—opened up about 12 miles south of Saugatuck area, you know. So, I went down there and I put in an application. I worked there for a couple—well, ’78 we got inmates in. ’79, I moved from there, went to Muskegon because I could get a promotion. Well, it was set as a temporary promotion. I thought, well you know, temporary? When I get there, I am going to make it a permanent promotion. They are going to have to hire me on a permanent basis once I work for a while. And they did. You know, and the next thing I knew, I make lieutenant and the shift commander. And I worked there for about 9 years. (01:40:41) Veteran: And I was outside during a snowstorm, and there’s a guy running what we call the port where trucks come through. We had to inspect them and go down underneath where you’re looking, going to do an oil change, to check for drugs. And I was down there. I started going �59 down and I hit a piece of ice I guess and slipped down and hurt my back, and end up in back surgery. It never got much better so they medically retired me. So, I did Mr. Mom for 3 or 4 years until all the kids got out of high school. And that’s my story. Interviewer: Alright. Now, to look back at the time that you spent in the Army, are there other particular memories or things that stand out for you that you haven’t talked about yet? Veteran: I am sure there is some things that I didn’t talk about that…But I can’t think of anything now. Interviewer: Yeah, you’ll remember them after we stop, because that is how that works. Veteran: I am sure! Interviewer: Okay. But then to think back on your time in the service, in what ways do you think that affected you, or what did you take out of it? (01:42:06) Veteran: Well, I took out of it the fact that I think I can do just about anything I put my mind to. And I learned a lot about myself, about people’s behaviors, people…You know? When I was in—when I was still working at the prison, I went to school at night at Grand—well, I started at Muskegon Community College. Got an associate degree at the community college and then went to—from there to Grand Valley. In the meantime, I had been divorced and so I was living up in Muskegon area and driving to Grand—after associate degree at Muskegon, I went to Grand Valley. And a year or so later, I got married—remarried. And my wife lived in Holland and I moved to Holland. And so, I still was working in Muskegon. I’d go to school—work 6 o’clock in the morning, get off at 2 o’clock in the afternoon and go to Grand Valley and go to the library and study for 2-3 hours, every now and then maybe get a couple hours sleep, and go to class and �60 get home at 10 o’clock at night. Then get up the next morning and do it all over again. So, I ended up with getting my bachelor’s degree in criminal justice. And all the inmates wanted to know, “Sergeant—Lieutenant Johnson—why are you going to school?” I said, “So I can figure out what makes you freaking idiots tick so that you don’t come back here.” You know? But the recidivism rate was very high. You know, you send people out and 3-4 weeks, sometimes months later, there they are, right back. So, I used to tell guys that were going to get out, I says, “Don’t go back and hang out with the same crowd.” I says, “Find a new place to live, if possible. But don’t hang out with—if you got to go back to the same town, don’t hang out with the same people. Those are the people that got you here in the first place.” But you know, didn’t help much. Interviewer: Yeah. Well, you can’t fix everything. Veteran: No. You can’t fix it. You know, they have to fix it themselves. Interviewer: Alright. Well, you’ve got a remarkable story, so I would just like to thank you for coming in and sharing it with us today. Veteran: Thank you very much. (01:44:43) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonW2358V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, William Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, William (Interview transcript and video), 2021 Description An account of the resource William Johnson was born in Union, Mississippi, on September 14th, 1936. He enlisted in the Army in 1955. He was processed in Fort Wayne, Michigan, issued his equipment in Fort Knox, Kentucky, and attended basic training in Fort Carson, Colorado. He then went to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for advanced training. Johnson was originally to join the 18th Engineer Brigade, but later decided to go to Fort Campbell, Kentucky for airborne training and joined the 11th Airborne Division. After that, his unit was deployed to Munich, Germany. Due to fights between units, the 11th Airborne Division was deactivated and Johnson joined the 24th Regiment, 8th Infantry Division. He stayed in Germany until December 1958 before going to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he reenlisted and was assigned to the 504th Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division. While at Fort Bragg, his unit went to Mississippi to respond to the conflict that occurred when James Meredith was not allowed to enroll in the University of Mississippi in 1962. Later that year, his unit was flown to Eglin Airforce Base in Florida to respond to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Johnson left Fort Bragg in 1963, after which he was assigned to go to Mainz and Bad Kreuznach, Germany as a part of the 8th Infantry Division, 509th Airborne Infantry Brigade. He stayed in Germany until 1966, then went to Fort Benning, Georgia, where he was the operation sergeant at the airborne training school. In 1967, he was flown to Clark Air Force base in the Philippines before arriving in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam. He then went to Phan Rang where he joined the 101st Airborne Division, 2nd Batallion, 502nd Infantry Regiment. Later, he went to Tam Ky, then Chu Lai where he was assigned to be an S-2 sergeant. After that, he went back to Phan Rang and then to Song Be. When the Tet Offensive began, his unit left for Da Nang. From there, they went towards A Shau Valley and set up Firebase Bastogne. Then, they went to Veghel and another firebase, where they were fired at, and Johnson got injured in the cheek. In 1968, Johnson flew back home where he was assigned to the 505th Infantry Regiment. In 1969, he was assigned to the SILK PURSE Control Group in England and returned home in 1972 to work with the Michigan National Guard Advisory group until he retired in 1976. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6254f281586893e94ba58e20aad7c421.pdf 8cf2977a9d982481f55f44581e4195d9 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW10501 Title A name given to the resource Letter of agreement for James Garrard Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-02-10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, Balaam Subject The topic of the resource Garrard, James, 1749-1822 Legal documents Kentucky Description An account of the resource Contract guaranteeing James Garrard, the Governor of Kentucky, three thousand dollars. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c44a420d4bfdde9cebce09bdbbaaa952.mp4 1d20dc209eb722d56bfdef93d436ee38 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74fc409d131534a9a06c394a3751677f.pdf b6c6f1d106c786c82eb159826c202ede PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Name of War: Vietnam War Name of Interviewee: Bert Jones II Length of Interview (00:22:38) Background (00:00:03)  Born on Sept 9, 1949  Served in Vietnam/Cambodia for the United States’ Army  Highest rank achieved, E4  Father was a Veteran of World War II; oldest brother was 30 years in the Navy, retired; Uncles were Veterans, one in particular was a WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam Veteran  Dad was a truck driver, mother was a house wife  Had two brothers and four sisters  Born in Grand Rapids, MI Training (00:01:55)  Went through eight weeks of basic and eight weeks of AIT  Was a part of a “permanent party” at Fort Sill, Oklahoma for four or five months, went to Vietnam from there  Did RVM training for a couple weeks, taught about Vietnam  Was an eighteen year old, did fairly well adapting to the Army life Tan Yen Province, Vietnam (00:03:24)  Was a combat soldier, saw a lot of combat in Vietnam and Cambodia  Fought enemy soldiers who would cross the borders from Cambodia and run back for protection until U.S. soldiers got the okay to go into Cambodia  Appreciates Nixon for allowing the cross into Cambodia  Served in the Tan Yen Province of Vietnam almost exclusively; in Cambodia for only 45 days (00:04:00)  Tan Yen Province, near the Black Virgin Mountain and Cambodian border (00:04:24)  Jones could always see that mountain from anywhere in Tan Yen  Never gained control of the mountain, had control of the top and had fire support bases at the bottom  Had B-52 strikes on it daily, but still couldn’t gain control  Mainly Vietcong and North Vietnamese soldiers in there  There may have been a 6,000 bed hospital in the mountain (00:5:23)  Heard stories that they could send soldiers up there and, from the sides, rock walls would slide open; also had all kinds of artillery  Lots of supply tunnels that went pass the fire support bases  Never saw any of this but confident that this is all true  Communicated with his family via mail, would sometimes take a long time to receive mail (00:06:16)  Was a highlight to Jones’ day when he received mail �   Was in a lot of remote places where choppers couldn’t reach them Mail was delivered by chopper, as well as, food and water Didn’t form many friendships; would not because they usually ended up dying (00:07:00)  Was a “full time soldier”, so he did not do very much besides fighting (00:07:22)  It was tough for soldiers, especially with the heat, bugs, and combat; but the people had it worse (00:07:45)  No food, would sometimes fight over garbage left behind  It bothered Jones to watch them do this, especially children; will never forget the suffering Feels numb to his emotions when in battle (00:08:54)  Doesn’t hit you until afterwards, saw some horrific things After Vietnam (00:9:30)  Was at home, in Freeport, MI, when the Vietnam War ended  Watched the end of it on T.V.  It was disheartening to watch what he fought so hard for be given back so easily  It was a bitter-sweet ending; glad to see everyone come back, but to have fought for nothing was a bitter ending; waste of money and lives (00:10:15)  Not pro-war, but feels that if you start something, you finish it  When coming back home, had some problems, “isolated incidences”, with people (00:11:03)  Was treated by family well though, that’s what counts  Hard to see people so cold to the War because of the negative press; like Iraq (00:11:46)  It was like they’re trying to turn you against your own people  It was tough to readjust, drank a lot, but his wife helped him get through it (00:12:50)  Started going to reunions/conferences for Veterans about four years ago (00:13:30)  Was impressed with it, feels like a huge therapy session with thousands of others Veterans  A lot of “negative numbers”/statistics on Vietnam Veterans, so the conference helps Veterans deal with their struggles  Lots of drinking, partying, and camaraderie  Recommends it for others who are struggling, very uplifting  Have professional speakers and programs  Happens annually  Only contacted one person he served with, a man from Missouri (00:15:10)  A cool experience, was in the “Battle of Pine Ridge” with him  After being in the War, Jones’ appreciates the U.S.A and life a lot more (00:16:54)  Thought it strange that the people trying to kill you in war don’t even know you; hard to rationalize and justify (00:17:45)  Uses his music to get through his struggles after the War; needs to focus on something else (00:18:40)  Gets better over the years, easier to deal with �  Might be ready to go to the monument (00:19:33) Wants people to remember, that when we send troops off to war, they are our people, our brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers; no matter what, we must stand by them, for or against the war (00:22:01) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonesB Title A name given to the resource Jones, Bert R., II (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, Bert R. Description An account of the resource Bert Jones II was a combat soldier in the Vietnam War for the U.S. Army. He mainly fought in the Tan Yen Province, but was in Cambodia for 45 days, as well. He does not discuss in specific detail what he did during the War, but he does describe the emotional impact it caused. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Canada, Kelsey (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/237168ac838ec5047c105d95b38cefa7.mp4 700139e0ca8e976193beccf8bc4b54ed https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b37f300e93d8b0955ad4aa7809962c9.pdf d8765401a2a1728a9b56326aedcb0838 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Frank Jones Vietnam War 2 hours 11 minutes 39 seconds (00:00:16) Early Life -Born on February 15, 1950 -Grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan -Mother was a housewife -Father worked at General Motors -He had six younger siblings, he was the oldest -He attended South High School until it closed -After it closed then he attended Central High School -He graduated from high school in June 1970 (00:01:28) Awareness of the Vietnam War & Civil Rights -He was very aware of the Vietnam War -Paid attention to all of the news about it -He knew that there was a draft and was hoping it would be over before he was old enough -He was also very aware of the Civil Rights Movement -South High School had had mostly black students -He was not aware of prejudice until he attended South High School -The younger students were more antagonistic than the older ones (00:04:03) Getting Drafted -During the summer of 1970 he was working for a cousin in construction -His draft number was 68 -All of the men between the ages of 18 and 26 were issued a number 1-300 -If you were given a number between 1 and 100 you were the first to get drafted -He received his draft notice in August 1970 -Told his fiancée that he wasn’t going to get married before he deployed -Didn’t want to leave her a widow if he was killed in Vietnam -His family was upset when he got drafted -Remembers that his grandfather was especially upset -When he boarded the bus for Detroit he could see his grandfather waving and saluting -There was a certain amount of pride in going to fight for his family -He didn’t agree with being sent to fight to protect South Vietnam -He was sent to Detroit to be given a physical examination and to be inducted -Making sure that you were fit for service before being inducted -It was basically pointless because they were accepting everyone -He shouldn’t have been accepted for service and learned this in Jump School (00:10:17) Jump School Pt. 1 -When he was in Jump (paratrooper) School at Fort Benning, Georgia his knee gave out -He went to the infirmary where a doctor told him that he should have never been drafted -He had a hip bone deformity that was liable to cause his knees to give out -If this happened in the field he, and other men, would be in danger �-He was given a “permanent profile” which barred him from combat service -He was placed into a unit that guarded the company commander -If you were in this unit you didn’t have to pull guard duty for the base (00:14:31) Basic Training -He was sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training -Took the bus from Detroit to Fort Knox -He was resigned to his fate and tried to make the best of it -Saw it as a learning experience -He adjusted pretty well to living in the Army -He didn’t know what to expect going in -The only advice he was given was to never volunteer for anything -You never know what you might be volunteering for -There was a lot of running and physical training -Went out to the gun range to shoot the M14 and M16 rifles and the .45 caliber pistol -Enjoyed those exercises -The drill sergeants had been to Vietnam and most of them were career soldiers -It was a transitional step for them between Vietnam and serving in the United States -They gave the recruits a lot of tongue-in-cheek advice about fighting in Vietnam -Some of it was practical though -Told not to go into bunkers because they would probably collapse -Never go anywhere alone, always bring a friend -There were no “safe zones” so don’t pretend there are (00:20:33) Fort Sill Pt. 1 -When he was sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma he became a clerk for a captain there -He was allowed to live off base -He didn’t think that he would be deployed to Vietnam -He made plans to get married -He was given thirty days of leave and went to Grand Rapids to get married -Three days before the wedding he was told he was going to be deployed -His “profile” had been reevaluated and he was deemed fit for combat -Decided to go ahead with the wedding and to get married -After the wedding he drove back to Fort Sill with his wife and packed his belongings (00:22:54) Advanced Infantry Training -After six weeks of basic training he was sent to Fort Polk, Louisiana for AIT -AIT was focused on preparing soldiers for fighting in Vietnam -Learning how to set up booby traps and also how to spot them -It didn’t compare to actually being in Vietnam though -Didn’t show soldiers the awful reality of war (00:25:37) Arrival in Vietnam Pt. 1 -When he arrived in Cam Ranh Bay he was placed on kitchen patrol duty -He went out to have a smoke with another soldier -As he was walking back to the kitchen searchlights came on -He was told that Vietnamese soldiers were spotted on the perimeter -He became a clerk for an officer in Headquarters Company -His job was to process promotions and leaves and decided if those things were granted �(00:28:12) Jump School Pt. 2 -After only about a month of AIT he was sent to Jump School at Fort Benning -It consisted of a lot of running -He did all of the training except for the five training jumps out of an airplane -This was because of the trouble that he was having with his hip (00:29:32) Medical Troubles after the War -After getting discharged he was told to go to Detroit to get evaluated for compensation -A month later he was told that he was considered 25% disabled -Allowed him to receive $25 a month -When he went to the Veterans’ Affairs Hospital in Kalamazoo he was denied further assistance -He was told that there was nothing wrong with him -He was also told that Vietnam veterans were always just faking to try and get money -He got in touch with a liaison for Veterans’ Affairs -He was able to apply for more disability assistance -After further evaluation it was decided that he was actually 95% disabled -He doesn’t trust the military or the government for the way veterans are treated (00:35:38) Further Training -His plan was to take as many training courses to delay being deployed to Vietnam -After AIT he had been told that he qualified for leadership training at West Point -Ultimately turned down the offer because of the commitment it meant -He opted to go to Jump School which meant six more weeks of not being in Vietnam -He was going to apply for Green Beret training, but wasn’t able to -He was sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma -He remembers at Jump School you would do “static line jumps” from a tower -You were told to spread eagle on the way down -One older soldier didn’t and had a heart attack and died on his way down (00:40:00) Relationship with Other Soldiers -He made good friends with the men that he trained with -He knew one recruit from New York City that he would joke around with -Eventually they both got in trouble for messing with a drill sergeant -In basic training the majority of the recruits were draftees -Some men were also from the National Guard or the Army Reserves -They had joined one of those organizations to avoid going to Vietnam -There were some discipline issues in basic training -Some of the punishment was called for -He remembers recruits would make sure that other recruits got into line -One recruit refused to take a shower, so he was beaten with bags of soap (00:45:05) Deployment to Vietnam -He received orders to go to Vietnam in spring 1971 -He flew to Seattle from Grand Rapids and then flew out of Seattle for Vietnam -Stayed in Seattle for three or four days -Got to see Carlos Santana perform for free (00:49:20) Arrival in Vietnam Pt. 2 -When he got to Vietnam he already knew he was going to join the 101st Airborne Division -He was going to be sent up to Phu Bai from Cam Ranh Bay -He remembers when the jet entered Vietnamese airspace three fighter jets escorted them �-From the air the country looked beautiful and green -On the ground it was trashy looking -While he was in Cam Ranh Bay he ran into the captain he worked for at Fort Sill -He was also heading up to Phu Bai and needed a clerk -Offered the job to Frank who took the position (00:53:08) In the Field -Despite being a clerk he went into the field a few times -The first time that he went into the field a volunteer was needed -The job was to either carry the M60 machine gun or a PRC25 radio -The M60 was heavier and with the PRC25 you got to carry a .45 caliber pistol -Frank volunteered to take the radio -Once the radio antenna was unreeled he realized what a mistake he had made -He was now the most obvious target for the North Vietnamese -During his first time in the field he learned to never say “repeat” on the radio -Repeat meant for the artillery to unleash everything on the last given coordinates -He quickly corrected himself before anything serious happened -During another time in the field a soldier tripped a booby trap -He acted quick enough and dropped flat on the ground -He only got hit with some shrapnel in the legs as opposed to losing his legs -Frank escorted the wounded soldier back to the field hospital -He was allowed to watch while the surgeon removed the shrapnel -He never actually saw the North Vietnamese or the Viet Cong, they were always in the distance -His unit only took minor casualties -Nothing serious enough to send them back to Saigon, Japan, or the United States (01:01:15) Enemy Contact and Civilians -They would drive through towns in convoys -Children would always approach the vehicles to try and ask for something -They would have to tell them to get away because they might be a suicide bomber -If they didn’t listen they would have to shoot at the child -It was that or risk losing a truck full of soldiers -He had some contact with South Vietnamese soldiers -They were worthless as a fighting force though -There were also the Montagnard people that lived in the Central Highlands -They were a neutral party in the conflict, but aided the United States occasionally -Helicopter gunners would also shoot at water buffalo -The military would then have to pay the villagers to compensate for their loss -Eventually the gunners were told they would have to pay for it (01:07:05) Bad Officers and “Fragging” -There was an incompetent and selfish lieutenant in his unit -He refused to sign the application that would grant soldiers their Combat Infantry Badge -Having a CIB meant higher pay -He did not believe that any of these men deserved to have it -After being in Vietnam for only eight weeks he demanded to get a CIB -Frank said that he would only process his application if he signed the others -Argued that all of Vietnam was a combat zone -The lieutenant caved and signed all of the applications �-He got along well with some of the men that were at the brigade level -Exchanged favors for each other -He had a box on his desk with various grenades in it -Some of the men that he knew from brigade came to him -They said that there was a bad officer and they needed to get rid of him -Frank offered them the box of grenades and they took what was needed -Later on they tossed a fragmentation grenade (not live) into the officer’s room -They followed that with a tear gas grenade -The officer stumbled out of his room and fell down the stairs breaking an arm (01:13:50) Friendship with the Medics -He got to know the medics well -They were allowed to do more and get away with more -He remembers a soldier came in with a syphilitic cyst on his pelvis -The doctor was annoyed that the soldier’s lack of common sense -Lanced the cyst with a huge needle and without anesthesia -Frank’s job was to hold down the soldier while the cyst was drained -He had a good time with the medics -Frequently smoked marijuana with them (01:20:08) Morale and Discipline -Soldiers were sick of the war -Morale wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t good either -There was a lack of discipline in the ranks -Men from the motor pool would take vehicles into the town of Phu Bai to collect prostitutes -They would then take them back to the medics to see if they were safe or not -He had a friend that got seven days of leave and seven days of R&R -Wanted to fly back to Detroit so he could see his family -Frank approved the R&R destination -At the end of the fourteen days Frank got a call from Detroit -The man said he couldn’t leave his wife and children just yet -Frank gave him ten more days of leave -If he was late though, he would not help him -Ten days later, at noon, the soldier showed up on time (01:25:44) Natural Dangers -He was behind the medic’s tent having a smoke when he saw a vibrant green snake -Grabbed a stick and decided to play with it -Before he could do anything a soldier tackled him to the ground -Told him that it was a Bamboo Viper -If he had been bitten by it, it probably would have killed him -An experience like that made him realize that he really wasn’t in the United States -Someone grabbed a shovel, cut off the snake’s head, and put it in a bottle of formaldehyde (01:28:44) Living Conditions -While the officers were down in Cam Ranh Bay the enlisted men would raid their clubhouse -Gave them a chance to get beer and liquor that they usually couldn’t have -Because of being the clerk for a captain he had his own “hooch” -Other enlisted men had to sleep in a barracks with ten other men -The size of his hooch was about ten feet by ten feet �-He had an actual bed -He was able to have larger personal possessions -The first night there he sprayed the room with cockroach repellant -That night in bed cockroaches were crawling onto the ceiling then dropping onto him -Learned that it was better to just not spray repellant -Another night he heard a door opening and then closing -Concerned that it was a possible intruder -Went and investigated and saw that it was a rat the size of a small dog -Paid Vietnamese civilians to come capture the rat, who then ate it -Because of the favors that he did for people he was able to get fancy, rare liquors (01:37:36) Drugs -Aside from marijuana there were hard drugs coming into the country (cocaine and heroin) -Remembers that heroin was the most common, and the worst problem -There was one soldier that refused to go home to his wife and children -His addiction was so bad that he was spending all of his money on heroin -Eventually had to be handcuffed in the plane and was sent home -The heroin was also 95%-98% pure -This meant that it produced a strong high, but it was easier to overdose on -He doesn’t remember medics in Headquarters Company dealing with overdose cases -Soldiers that had that severe of a problem were sent to Saigon to detox -Soldiers would smoke “scag joints”: marijuana cigarette mixed with opium -Commonly used by the helicopter gunners (01:41:42) Racial Tensions -Racial tensions were high and apparent -He tried to act as a liaison between the white and black soldiers -Black soldiers would isolate themselves and refuse to work with white soldiers -In the field racial divisions did not exist -In the rear though, the races did not mix even if the soldiers were friends -He could not understand all of the unnecessary animosity -Believed that they were all in the same situation together -He tried to break down barriers between the two races, but it was no use (01:47:17) Coming Home -He left Vietnam in February 1972 -Through a series of favors and due to the advance of the communists he was sent home early -He went down to Cam Ranh Bay to wait for a chartered flight back to the U.S. -When they flew out of the country three fighter jets escorted them -Once the jets were gone they knew they were out of Vietnamese airspace -They stopped in Okinawa on the way back -Landed in Seattle and was waiting for a flight to Chicago -While in Seattle there was a question about his orders to be sent home early -Contacted the proper authorities in Vietnam and the problem was resolved -He missed the flight to Chicago and got a flight to Kalamazoo, Michigan instead -He was greeted at the airport by his wife and his parents -Afterwards they drove back to Grand Rapids and his time in the service was over (01:54:18) Readjusting to Civilian Life & Life after the War -He was harassed by protestors �-While at Ferris State University the Veterans’ Club was looked down upon -Feels that veterans from the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan are treated better now -Directly because of how veterans from Vietnam were treated -Finds it ironic that people that once harassed him now thank him for his service -He had to censor himself in terms of the language he had gotten used to using in Vietnam -He lived with his in-laws for a little bit -He found work at an ice cream parlor -He wanted to have a job like that to readjust to being a working civilian again -He attended Ferris State University for a couple years -Decided that it just wasn’t for him though and left -He worked for his father-in-law for a while -Finally settled on working at General Motors with his father -Stayed with that job for thirty one years -After the war he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder -Believes that he has handled it pretty well though -Hasn’t allowed it to control his life -Appreciates life and his family in spite of the PTSD (02:06:09) Veterans’ Groups -He was involved with the Veterans’ Club at Ferris State University -He was in a veterans’ group at General Motors -He became a salary employee though which caused a conflict of interest -He plans on getting involved with the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion -He also thinks highly of those who volunteer at the Veterans’ Home in Grand Rapids (02:08:36) Reflections on Service -He doesn’t regret the time that he spent in the service -He views all of it as a learning experience -It showed him how the world actually works -Exposed him to the more bizarre, but very real parts of American society and the world � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonesF1725V Title A name given to the resource Jones, Frank (Interview outline and video), 2015 Description An account of the resource Frank Jones is a Vietnam War veteran that was born on February 15, 1950 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. After graduating from high school in June 1970 he was drafted into the Army in August 1970. He trained at Fort Knox, Kentucky; Fort Polk, Louisiana; and Fort Benning, Georgia. He was stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma and was deployed to Vietnam in October 1971. In Vietnam he was assigned to Headquarters Company for the 101st Airborne Division in Phu Bai. He worked as a clerk for a captain, but also went out into the field on a few patrols. In February 1972 he received an early out and his tour in Vietnam ended. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, Frank Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jones, Adam (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-01-29 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c6a3c0cd2d2c0c65a257f2fa093c697e.mp4 6d7cd64d98dff37d046821799b63ff86 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7124a05e8f74261d489ef2eaada5c6d7.pdf dbbac86dd7df1543ed5516eabf97ff76 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War William Jones Interview Length: (01:30:17:00) Pre-Enlistment / Training (00:00:09:00)  Born on June 26, 1947 in Kalamazoo, Michigan (00:00:09:00)  Jones’ mother’s family lived in New Hampshire while his father’s family lived in Ionia, Michigan; he split his time between living in Michigan and living in New Hampshire, with the bulk of his younger years spent living in New Hampshire (00:00:17:00) o Jones attended Catholic parochial school and then Manchester West High School in Manchester, NH; he originally took the entrance exam for another high school but the majority of his friends were attending West High School, so he decided to attend there instead (00:00:35:00)  Jones’ father worked as a truck driver and his mother was an LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse) (00:01:22:00) o After school, Jones normally stayed with his grandparents until his father was able to pick him up after his father got out of work (00:01:34:00)  When he was a senior in high school, Jones considered joining the Air Force; everyone in his family had either served in World War I, World War II, or the Korean War and his father in particular had served in the Air Force (00:02:10:00) o However, in February 1966, Jones happened to be in a Marine Corps recruiting station, where he talked with a gunnery sergeant (00:02:35:00) o At the time, the Corps only offered three and four year enlistments and one of Jones’ main motivations was to serve long enough that his GI Bill would pay for his college (00:02:47:00) o Due to the draft, Jones realized he had to decide quickly because if he was drafted, the military was going to put them where they wanted (00:03:24:00) o Jones chose the Marine Corps over the Air Force because he liked the dress uniforms and the Corps had a solid history; because he had been a history buff in high school, Jones liked the history of the Corps (00:04:04:00)  The Air Force also had a good history fighting in World War II and Korea, but Jones liked the Corps’ history more (00:04:20:00)  When he joined in 1966, Jones had a ninety-day delay program, so he did not ship out until August 1966, during which he and his family watched the news and saw what was going on in Vietnam (00:04:41:00) o Jones also discussed the war in his history class with his teacher, a former Marine pilot during the Korean War (00:05:05:00) o Apart from discussing the war, Jones also talked about the anti-war protests going on around the country (00:05:27:00)  Before joining the Corps, Jones wrote a letter with the help of his girlfriend to the Manchester Union Leader, a statewide newspaper, deriding the anti-war protestors (00:05:29:00) �   Based of a film shown by the Marine recruiter, Jones explained that despite it being an unpopular war, the soldiers went where they were ordered to go (00:06:35:00)  The next day’s morning edition of the paper had the letter in it on the top of the front page and the paper wanted Jones to come in and have his picture taken and redo part of the letter (00:08:02:00)  Jones expected the letter to go into the “letters to the editor” section and when he wrote several other letters later, that was where they went (00:08:41:00) Jones went to Parris Island, South Carolina, for boot camp (00:09:28:00) o The men were picked up from the airport by buses and their recruiter had told them what to expect but it was not them same until the men experienced it for themselves (00:09:37:00) o The recruits actually arrived a day late because they missed the flight out of Newark, New Jersey (00:09:50:00) o They got onto the base at eleven o’clock at night and when they went through the main gate of the base, the men were talking amongst themselves about how they needed to be ready (00:10:09:00) o When they got on the base, a drill instructor got on the bus, explained that the men now belonged to the Marine Corps and that when he said so, the men were to get off the bus and stand on the yellow footprints outside (00:10:40:00) o The men went through the barracks and signed the paperwork, then moved through the showers and finally through processing, which included being issued clothes (00:11:25:00) o After processing, the men moved to an area, were told their drill instructors would pick them up later and told not to sleep; however, they rotated men as guards while the others slept (00:11:59:00) o At four in the morning, their drill instructors picked the men up and marched them back to their barracks; while the other platoons were able to place their bags on trucks, Jones’ platoon had to carry their bags on their backs (00:12:39:00) o The next morning, the men went through testing, which helped the Corps with training as well as helping decide which job description they would have and whether they would receive any additional military schooling (00:13:15:00)  Jones was lucky and the Corps sent him to three different schools in Quantico, Virginia (00:13:42:00) The boot camp experience was pretty close to the experience portrayed in movies such as Full Metal Jacket (00:14:04:00) o One major difference was the men did not take live ammunition off the firing range; they gave the men three opportunities to get rid of their live ammunition and if they did not, then the men faced possible time in jail for each round they still had on them (00:14:07:00) o The men had four drill instructors who were good to the men but firm; if any of the men screwed up, they got in trouble (00:14:42:00)  The men slept in air-conditioned barracks and sometimes after dinner, when one man or another had screwed up, the drill instructors made the � men due large amounts of PT (physical training) and they turned the air conditioning off in the barracks (00:15:58:00)  One man’s muscles cramped up, so Jones and some other men had to put cold towels on the muscles in an attempt to get the muscles to relax (00:16:32:00) o One recruit referred to his rifle as a gun and the drill instructor told the man to bring over his “weapon”; when the recruit did so, the instructor told him it was a weapon, not a gun, and the recruit was going to dance around the barracks with his rifle until he realized that (00:17:03:00)  The other men had to stand and watch the recruit dance without smiling, which was difficult (00:17:42:00) The training was difficult because the instructors had condensed twelve weeks of training into eight and seeing and hearing what other platoons had to go through while the men were resting made Jones realize how rugged the training was going to be (00:18:15:00) o During bayonet training, Jones’ opponent hit Jones in a place he was not supposed to, so Jones hit the opponent twice in the head (00:18:41:00) o When the men were about to graduate, they had to go on a three-mile run but Jones had hurt his knee during hand-to-hand combat training, so the drill instructor said he and a few other men who were injured did not have to run to course (00:19:14:00)  Word eventually came down that the men might have to run the course on graduation day, so the drill instructor had to explain that the men were injured (00:19:55:00)  The injured men were given the choice and Jones decided to run the course, during which two of his buddies stayed near the back and paced him through (00:20:13:00) o Two weeks before graduation, Jones looked back and questioned whether he would have gone through the training again (00:20:47:00)  He decided that he would because everyone else in his family had gone through boot camp and Jones used to hear the stories (00:21:05:00) o The first time Jones and the other men were standing in the food line when one of the drill instructors got right in a man’s face and derided the man for crying (00:21:44:00)  The incident made Jones question whether he had made the correct decision in joining the Marine Corps over the Air Force (00:22:14:00) o There were more heavyset men in the platoon called “fat bodies” and the drill instructors made sure that the men who had to eat lightly ate separate amounts of food (00:22:26:00) o The drill instructors still cared about the men; for example, during about the third week, Jones got a blister near his Achilles tendon and although he tried not to show it, the senior drill instructor caught it (00:23:08:00)  When Jones explained he had a blister, the drill instructor asked to see it and when Jones showed him, the instructor sent him to sick bay (00:23:38:00) �    When Jones returned to the barracks, the senior drill instructor chewed him out for trying to hide the blister; he explained that despite appearances, the drill instructors did care about the men (00:24:16:00) o There were one hundred men in the platoon and six men ended up washing out but they did end up picking up three stragglers (00:24:44:00) After completing the eight week boot camp, the men had a graduation day, during which Jones was able to see his mother and his girlfriend and was able to be with them until seven o’clock that evening (00:25:43:00) o The men then received their orders at eight o’clock that night for where they were assigned to go (00:25:57:00) o There were also some reservists in the platoon and the drill instructors chided them and tried to get them to switch to a full enlistment (00:26:02:00) o Half the platoon received WESTPAC orders, meaning they were going to Vietnam (00:26:34:00)  Jones did not want to go right away to Vietnam, so he discussed getting school through the Marines with his recruiter and having passed the aptitude test, Jones was able to (00:26:43:00) o The men had to shut their lights off by nine o’clock and they were told that someone would be coming in later to make sure their lights were off (00:27:09:00)  The one drill instructor who had been to Vietnam talked with the men who had WESTPAC orders and explained what to expect while telling the men who would receive schooling that they were blessed and that if they eventually went to Vietnam, they needed to hear it too (00:27:22:00) The next day, the men boarded the buses for Advanced Infantry Training at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina (00:27:56:00) o The experience there was a lot better than the eight weeks of boot camp; the men had a lot more freedom in the barracks and when they were eating (00:28:08:00) o It was nice to be called “Marine” because the men had earned the title, although it eventually reached the point that the men wanted to be called by their names, not just “Marine” (00:28:44:00) o The men lived in good barracks and ate good food (00:29:07:00) o The men went though all the different types of training, including: night training, an infiltration course with bobby-traps, as well as weapons training with the M1 Garand, the M-60, grenade launchers, and hand grenades (00:29:09:00) o Some of the instructors had spent time in Vietnam while others had only served as instructors up until that point (00:30:34:00) o The training lasted for weeks and Jones was able to go home for Thanksgiving after he reported to the base at Quantico, Virginia (00:30:56:00) Jones went to Quantico for more schooling (00:31:07:00) o The Marines sent Jones through logistics training as well as a little bit of intelligence training, training with optical instruments, such as range-finders on tanks and fire-control scopes mounted on 105mm artillery guns, and supply training (00:31:26:00)  There was a little bit of a difference between logistics training and supply training but they were mostly doing the same thing (00:31:57:00) � In logistics, Jones worked with combat support, warehousing, and unit requisition forms and he worked with supply units to organize how the supplies arrived and who received them (00:32:04:00)  With some units, Jones and others had to make sure that they had all their supplies aboard ship when the units left the United States and sailed to Vietnam (00:32:34:00)  The ships would be in port two weeks before leaving, so Jones and others would make sure everything was in order (00:33:17:00)  Jones and the other men knew what each unit would need if they were going to a specific area and would pack the ship with it, as well as some extra supplies the men thought the unit might need once they were in the field (00:34:19:00) o Jones stayed in Quantico for two weeks and completed his schooling before receiving his orders for Vietnam (00:34:45:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:35:01:00)  Jones got to Vietnam on a flight from California to Da Nang (00:35:01:00) o The military used a combination of civil airliners and military aircraft to transport soldiers to and from the country (00:35:20:00)  Jones’ first impression of Vietnam when he got of the plane was the heat (00:35:33:00)  After reporting in, Jones and the other men went to see the corpsman, who talked with the men about what to expect climate wise (00:35:38:00) o The corpsman also advised the men not to get sun-burned and to that end, the military provided sunscreen (00:35:53:00)  Following the corpsman’s lecture, Jones and the other men went through indoctrination then reported to headquarters supply for the 1st Marine Division in Da Nang although the main division was headquartered in Saigon as part of I Corps (00:36:34:00) o Jones’ duties will in Saigon consisted of warehousing and preparing manifests (00:37:02:00) o Jones was a corporal at the time and worked with the more senior NCOs as well as the unit’s XO (executive officer) and CO (commanding officer) (00:37:06:00)  The unit’s CO was a captain who had risen through the ranks, which was nice because if a man screwed up, the CO would chew him out but he also knew what the men were going through (00:35:01:00)  The CO might deride the men and call them names but he also respected them (00:37:44:00) o The men worked in the warehouse section of the base in Da Nang, making sure the supplies coming in the United States was correct, and in offices on another part of the base (00:38:16:00) o Mostly, Jones’ unit worked as combat support (00:38:54:00)  Whenever a Marine unit would request supplies, the requisition form would move through various units in the chain of command although sometimes, the forms came directly to the unit (00:39:00:00)  The men then had to process the form and there were times Jones spent more time in the office working on forms than in the warehouse organizing the supplies (00:39:17:00) �    Once the forms were complete, the men organized the requested supplies on a palette that was then loaded onto either a Chinook helicopter or a Deuce-and-a-Half truck (00:39:34:00)  The men supplied Marine units in the field, meaning sometimes the requisition forms were for survey equipment or more weapons, ammunition or provisions (00:40:04:00) o The men also worked with communication units if the units needed new communication equipment, while other logistical units worked with the Marine air wing (00:40:55:00) o The men also did inventory control making sure they had enough inventory of the supplies they needed (00:41:45:00)  After completing their inventories, the men sent requisition forms back stateside for the supplies they needed (00:41:59:00) Jones wishes the system had been more efficient than it actually was; the system was efficient but Jones and others wanted to get the supplies out quicker to the units who requested them (00:42:27:00) o Apart from paperwork, the men also dealt with some bureaucracy that made sure everything was done the way it was supposed to be done (00:42:55:00)  Jones and two other corporals got in trouble when a Marine unit requested equipment they needed badly, such as ammunition and M-60 machine guns, and the three men jumped said unit ahead of other units waiting in the queue (00:43:21:00)  When the XO found out, the men explained that they thought the one unit was more of a priority than the other units but the XO did not view it that way (00:44:13:00) When Jones returned to the United States, Marines in the frontline units told him that he did what he had to do so that they could do what they had to do (00:44:50:00) o Jones and the others felt a little guilt because they were not out in the field fighting, especially when they heard stories from other soldiers (00:44:57:00) While on the base, the men had to watch out for saboteurs amongst the large civilian population that worked on the base (00:45:52:00) o The men tried not to let their guard down because even though they were in a “secure” area, they had to remember where they were, a country they were at war with (00:46:04:00) o One time, a guard did see something and they captured a Vietnamese who was marking the base off for mortar strikes (00:46:21:00) o During the Tet Offensive, the base was attacked and Viet Cong tried to get onto the base three different times (00:47:03:00)  During the offensive, the men on the base scrambled to get to the different locations assigned to them (00:47:36:00)  Jones’ unit was expected to go out into the compound with their weapons with the explanation that the job of any Marine was to be a rifleman first, everything else second (00:47:47:00)  The men went out to bunkers with their weapons and secured their building (00:48:09:00) �     During the offensive, a lot of the enemy were stopped at the gate but some did make it onto the base, but they too were stopped before they could do any real damage to the base (00:48:30:00)  It was scary to get shot at but the men’s adrenaline was going and they did not think about it until after the fighting stopped (00:48:39:00)  There were also some mortar and rocket attacks on the base but those were concentrated around where the aircraft were sitting; however, the pilots flew the aircraft out quickly so the attacks would not damage any (00:49:17:00)  The mortar and rocket fire was target but the men were able to repeal it rather easily (00:49:48:00) Jones did not much contact with any Vietnamese, civilian or military (00:50:09:00) o Once in awhile, someone from the Vietnamese military would come into their area and talk with the CO (00:50:11:00) o Some of the female Vietnamese civilians on the base washed clothes while the Vietnamese men helped clean the barracks (00:50:30:00) The men stayed in barracks on the base along with men from other units in the Marines headquarters (00:50:52:00) Jones was able to get off the base a couple of times but he mostly stayed on because he felt more secure there (00:51:32:00) o It was possible for soldiers to go into the civilian parts of Da Nang although whenever they did go, the soldiers went in as a group (00:51:50:00)  A couple of men took weapons with them in holsters (00:52:12:00) o There were still a few men who took more risks and went into the city more frequently (00:52:25:00) Jones believes that the morale within his unit was good; the men knew the situation and what they had to do (00:52:47:00) o Occasionally, there were some men who got in trouble, but as not talking properly to an officer, and they were punished but there was never any major incident within the unit (00:53:11:00) o When he got to Vietnam, Jones tried to do his job they way his superiors wanted him to do the job (00:53:32:00)  However, on some occasions, Jones and other men improvised and cut a few corners to get the job done faster (00:53:46:00) o The men somewhat tried to keep abreast of the situation in the field and they would see units coming in from the field (00:54:30:00) o The Americans were supposed to be in Vietnam to help to South Vietnamese and Jones remembers one time in the barracks talking amongst themselves and comparing the conflict to the American Civil War (00:55:05:00)  At times, the men felt like they were being held back from doing their job they way they wanted to do it (00:55:28:00)  The men also felt that, based on their own impressions, sometimes the units in the field were handcuffed in doing their job (00:56:01:00)  However, the men did not want to become too involved in the political aspects; they were there to do a job, so they kept their heads down and pushed through (00:56:42:00) � Although Jones never actually went down to Saigon, some men in the unit did end up going (00:57:03:00) o On the other hand, when the men were able to go out of the country, Jones and some other men went to the Philippines (00:57:18:00) o There was also had in-country R&R, which consisted of going to Saigon or another area in the country (00:57:45:00) o A couple of times, the men went to the beach and had a party (00:58:20:00) Post-Vietnam Service (00:58:33:00)  Jones spent twelve months in Vietnam (00:58:33:00) o One night while walking to see a movie, he felt pain on his; he had cysts in both his feet but they had never bothered him (00:58:40:00) o He was due to rotate back to stateside and the Marines told him that they wanted the leg pain looked at when he got stateside (00:59:03:00) o When he got back to Quantico, he had surgery on both his feet at the Naval hospital to remove the cysts and was laid up for about a month (00:59:12:00)  After he got out of the hospital, Jones was assigned to the headquarters battery at Quantico; he was told he would be stateside for six months but after three, he received orders for Guantánamo Bay, Cuba (00:59:53:00)  When he got to Guantánamo Bay, Jones was assigned to the Marines barracks, where he ended up working with the Navy due to his training in logistics and supply (01:00:13:00) o He also worked with base security and the Marines assigned to guard the fenceline of the base (01:00:42:00)  A friend of Jones in the Navy commented when his ship stopped at the base that the men on the base had a “fort-like mentality” given the base’s location on the island (01:01:11:00) o Technically the base was still part of Cuba and the American government paid rent to him every year for it through a Swiss bank account (01:01:35:00) o At the time, the perimeter was always manned by Marines guards and although there was a Cuba guard post, no one ever manned it, which is not the case today (01:02:34:00) o The Cuban civilians were nice to the personnel on the base and as a result, there were eighty civilian Cuban workers on the base; some worked in the base’s bowling alley and others in the snack bar within the bowling alley (01:03:13:00)  One time, Jones and another man were driving a jeep past the outpost when the Marines manning the outpost asked if they wanted hamburgers; the Cubans working at the snack bar were going to make extra hamburgers and give them to the guards as they left (01:03:43:00)  Both Jones and the other Marine said they would, so the guards told them when to come back and when they did, the Cubans had left three paper bags full of hamburgers (01:04:21:00) o Whenever the men checked the perimeter, they knew they were being watched by Cubans on the other side (01:04:59:00)  The Marines had alerts but they were more like training in the event that the Cubans would come through the base’s first, second, or third line of defense (01:05:52:00) �o People in the administration build would tip the Marines off as to when their colonel set the timer for everything to go off; an alert might go off at four in the morning but the men would already be dressed in the their uniforms and had all their equipment nearby (01:06:07:00) o Jones’ detachment of Marines slept in a separate building from the main barracks and they were able to get into their jeeps and move out faster (01:06:37:00)  The barracks were on a hill that the men had to go down before joining the road that led out to the perimeter and the main gate (01:06:50:00) o The Marines went through the drills once a month and one time, the alert went off in the middle of the week and normally the drills did not take place until the end of the week (01:07:37:00)  The men all rolled out and at that particular time, Jones was walking to the barracks; when he heard the alert, he looked out into the bay and saw three Navy destroyers beginning to maneuver (01:07:51:00)  Everyone else began moving and looking for the ammunition, which was padlocked; the men ended up breaking the padlocks with the butts of a couple of rifles, after which they passed out the ammunition (01:08:17:00)  The trucks rolled up and Jones ordered his to make sure the road was secure so that the rest of the men could get down the hill and out to the perimeter (01:08:50:00)  When Jones left, he took extra ammunition with him for the men manning the north perimeter of the base; when he got there, he ordered the platoon back from the first line of defense to the third line (01:09:24:00)  There were three guards to a guard tower and each guard had five rounds apiece for his rifle (01:09:54:00) o Jones heard that shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis, a Marine in a guard tower wanted to test if the rifle could really go one thousand yards and he inadvertently killed a Cuban soldier, which caused a firestorm at the UN and the guards only having five rounds; whether the story is true or not, Jones does not know (01:10:22:00) o Five rounds apiece would not do much so the guards were told to fall back to the third line of defense to pick up extra ammunition (01:10:58:00)  Jones also brought a jeep with a mounted M-60 machine gun and when he arrived, he and the other men waited (01:11:17:00)  Jones later heard that the Marines set a record time in getting out the perimeter and into position (01:11:22:00)  The men eventually found out that the colonel had been trying to set the alert to go off for Thursday and had accidentally tripped it; normally the men had classes after breakfast but on that day, the classes were cancelled and the mess hall stayed open through the midday meal so the men could unwind (01:11:34:00) o Another time, Jones and some other men were off-duty and standing near the outdoor movie theater when they saw a Russian ship moving across the canal, something was which not allowed on Sundays (01:12:09:00) �    As two Navy tugs went to investigate, the men went back, got their uniforms on, and then drove to the north perimeter and got into a guard tower to get a better view of the situation (01:12:30:00)  There was a sandbar separating the canals and when the two tugs arrived, they tried to stop the ship but the Russian captain kept forcing the ship forward (01:12:55:00)  One of the destroyers eventually weighed anchor and went to GQ (general quarters) and the men watched as jeeps mounted with M-60s and a .50 caliber moved along the perimeter (01:13:11:00)  The men also learned that the other Marine platoons had been readied near the barracks in case anything did happen (01:13:48:00)  Fortunately, nothing happened during the incident; the Russian captain eventually stopped the ship and the Navy tugs were able to get a hold of it (01:13:57:00) Jones spent twelve months at Guantánamo Bay, after which he still had another year left on his enlistment (01:14:28:00) o Once, Jones had the opportunity to be a disc jockey for the Armed Forces radio on the base and one night, a general on the base came through the radio station and he asked Jones if he liked doing the job; Jones said he did and the general suggested doing it as an MOS (01:14:53:00)  The general said he would have Jones out of Guantánamo Bay within a week and taken to wherever they trained the broadcasters (01:15:52:00)  However, if he wanted to do that MOS, Jones might possibly have had to extend his enlistment for another four, possibly six years, whereas if he got out of the military, he could go to college and then be able to make more money (01:16:02:00)  Jones though about the offer but the general wanted an answer the next morning; however, Jones was still leery about the extended commitment he would have to give and he declined (01:16:34:00) At one point, Jones did give some consideration to staying in the military; he could do night class at college but staying in meant more inspections and peace time activities now that the Vietnam War was winding down (01:17:01:00) When he left Guantánamo Bay, Jones was given three choices as to where he wanted to go and he put Quantico first, Camp Lejeune second, and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, which was near where he had lived in New Hampshire, third (01:10:22:00) o He got Camp Lejeune, so he joined the 2nd Marines Division, 10th Marines Headquarters Battalion, where he went back to doing supply; Jones’ new CO was similar to his former CO in Vietnam, willing to let the men get away with certain things (01:17:58:00)  On one occasion, some men took their time off and went to Washington D.C., which they were not supposed to do, and their car ended up breaking down; when the men got back to the base, they told the CO the truth and as punishment, the men had to paint the barracks one hour each night for five days (01:18:17:00) �o Another time, the CO put through Jones through military driver school because Jones went and moved a six-by because he got tired of waiting for his deuce-anda-half to load (01:20:01:00)  Jones did so well that every so often, the regimental gunnery sergeant would request that Jones help him as an instructor at the driving school (01:20:32:00) Post-Military Life (01:20:56:00)  When he finally did get out of the military, Jones attended Michigan State University and graduated with degrees in HR and business (01:20:56:00)  He made the conscious decision that if someone asked him whether he had served, Jones would say he had served in the United State Marine Corps but he would not go beyond that (01:21:11:00) o He knew what the negative viewpoint of former soldiers was that had been propagated by the media (01:21:25:00) o When he was asked one time, Jones said he did serve in the Marines but he considered all the soldiers to be his comrades-in-arms and they did not need to be treated badly (01:21:49:00)  Jones did see a lot of the anti-war protests when he was in Quantico and when he and other men would leave the base dressed in civilian clothes (01:22:30:00) o One time, Jones and some other men saw some protestors about to burn the American flag; Jones and the other men ran over, knocked to protestors down, and protected the flag (01:22:48:00) o Two of the protestors got up and complained to the D.C. cops, who said they had not seen a thing; later on, one of the cops pulled the men aside and thanked them because they could not do what the men did (01:23:03:00) o The men also visited Arlington Cemetery, which left a major impression on them (01:23:31:00)  After getting his degrees, Jones went into sales because he liked that line of work (01:23:53:00) o He eventually went to work for a placement agency where he worked for twelve years before he had a chance to create a franchise offering temp and permanent workers, which he has done for the past twelve to fourteen years (01:23:58:00)  Jones learned more about sacrifice while serving in the military as well as more respect, which reinforced what he had learned when he was younger (01:24:39:00) o During the first Desert Storm, Jones and other veterans made the decision that those soldiers would not go through what they went through, so every week the veterans marched down the main street of Holland (01:25:04:00) o During an anti-war protest in downtown Grand Rapids, Michigan for the more recent war in Iraq, Jones called into a local television station and commented about how the protestors needed to realize how things would be different and how the protestors needed to show respect for the soldiers (01:25:51:00)  Jones had no problem protesting government policies but he draws the line at protesting against the troops; the troops are deployed where ever they are told to go (01:26:58:00) �  Although he was close to some men who ended up dying, Jones realized that they were either in a warring country, in Vietnam, or in the middle of the Cold War, at Guantánamo Bay and death could happen at any time (01:27:54:00) o There were some Vietnam veterans serving at Guantánamo Bay and they realized they had to protect not only the civilians on the base but also the Marines who had come fresh out of boot camp (01:28:19:00) He did not go to the Vietnam Memorial when it first opened but he did end up going with some other people later (01:28:57:00) o He went with a lady friend and they took their time going down; when they eventually found the name of a friend of Jones’, they made a rubbing (01:28:15:00) o The lady friend later told him that one moment Jones doing fine and the next moment, he was crying, after which the others who were there gathered around Jones and supported him (01:29:43:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonesW Title A name given to the resource Jones, Williams (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, William Description An account of the resource Born in Kalamazoo, Michigan in 1947, William Jones divided his younger years growing up between Ionia, Michigan and Manchester, New Hampshire. After graduating from high school in Manchester, Jones followed family tradition and enlisted in the military, specifically the Marine Corps. After completing basic training at Parris Island, South Carolina and Advanced Individual Training (AIT) at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, Jones went to the Marine Corps' base at Quantico, Virginia for training in supply and logistics. When he finished training at Quantico, Jones deployed to Vietnam, where he served with the 1st Marine Division in Da Nang as part of a supply and logistics unit. Following a yearlong tour in Vietnam, Jones returned to the United States before deploying overseas again, this time to Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Once his tour at Guantánamo Bay was complete, Jones returned to Camp Lejeune, where he finished the remainder of his enlistment. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-02-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4224cbaaae123c0daf0de4589a970dac.mp4 e511e85a16f5380682569c0280e07f68 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1884403e5516763d3763f075d3d071d.pdf e69090dbb9c3803dfe417d8859e44fac PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Herm Jongsma (01:26:00) Pre Enlistment • Had to transfer to numerous schools as he was growing up (00:45) • Born in 1931 (01:45) • Father sold apples and baked goods on the street corner (02:00) • His father would also listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on WGN as he got dressed in the morning (03:30) • Herm later joined the school choirs as well as the church choir (04:30) • Graduated mid-year in 1950 (05:20) • Father opened a floral shop when he was in high school (06:25) • Too young to understand what it meant when America went to the Second World War (07:33) • Didn’t truly appreciate the deaths and the impact it had on people (08:00) • During high school, Herm took a college prep course (09:15) • Decided to become a heating engineer after high school (09:30) • Had to serve an apprenticeship before you could get into the trade (11:00) • After being turned down for an apprenticeship, he decided to go to Calvin College (12:10) • Decided to be a math teacher while at Calvin (13:30) • After getting a bad grade in math, he decided to switch to a biology major (15:00) • Decided in 1952 to join the military after he heard about Korea (15:30) • Wanted to be a pilot or navigator (15:45) • Was informed by the recruiting office that Truman had stopped enlistment in the Air Cadet program (16:30) Draft and Training • Was drafted before he made a decision about which branch he wanted to serve in (17:15) • Went to Great Lakes Naval Training Center to be inducted (17:30) • Then flew to California (17:35) • Had never flown before, and thought it was really nice until they hit turbulence (17:55) • Had to make a forced emergency landing in Arizona (18:20) • Had basic training at Fort Ord (18:45) • Scheduled to go to Intelligence School (19:00) • A lot of PT and physical activity involved in basic training (19:25) • Used live ordinance towards the end to make sure people stayed down (19:30) • Never was comfortable with bayonet practice (20:00) • 8 week program, and some were shipped out after that (20:15) �• • • • Came down with chicken pox, which set him back 3 days in training, and was forced to join a new unit (20:45) Had seven days between the end of basic training and the beginning of intelligence school, but had to take a full leave before that (22:00) Went to light mechanics school at Fort Ord instead (22:30) Could be stationed anywhere in the far East (23:00) Korea • Got new orders in Tokyo to go to Korea (23:15) • Went to Pusan, Korea, and was in the combat zone (23:20) • Thought he would be running around as a driver on call instead of a mechanic (24:40) • Was bombed on the first day he was there, however (25:50) • Had to quickly learn the difference between incoming and outgoing shells (26:30) • Also had to deal with shrapnel as he drove around the camp (28:30) • Only let his brother know that he was in a combat zone (29:00) • Volunteered to go work with the Greek Expeditionary Force, which was attached with the 15th Regiment, 3rd Division (29:45) • Greek force was a battalion large (30:00) • Only time he heard English was with the few other Americans who were there (30:45) • Had ripe olives, olive oil, cognac and ouzo delivered to the officers tent from Greece (31:30) • When guests came, they went to Officers Mess tent and served water glasses of cognac (33:00) • Greeks were very organized, professional, very military (34:45) • Very skilled in hand to hand combat (36:00) • Herm’s job was to maintain contact with the Koreans and companies of the 15th Regiment (36:30) • Was stationed right behind Outpost Harry the whole time (38:00) • Outpost Harry had direct access to Seoul, so China wanted to have it (39:50) • Had several battles around the Outpost, sometimes at night, and affected him emotionally (41:20) • Many of the attacks were reminiscent of trench fighting in World War One (41:50) • Often outmanned 20-30 to 1 (43:15) • Each wave of men got closer and closer past the Concertina wire (43:40) • The Chinese reported that 4200 men died in 9 days (44:00) • 100 men defended the outpost for a day, then were refreshed the next day (44:45) • Only 2 men were listed MIA, and one captured from the Greek army during the whole war (45:20) • When the artillery let up, you knew the attack was coming from the soldiers (46:15) • Had to use hand to hand combat frequently (47:00) • Often wondered why he walked out of the war with no wounds (47:15) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Thinks that while the darkest times were occurring, he recalled a song from the Mormon Tabernacle Choir that helped him not be alone (48:00) Nobody ever asked him about combat or Korea when he got home (49:00) Never told his parents that he was in combat, made up stories in letters (49:20) Told his youngest brother years later that he was in combat (51:30) Believes the real heroes of the war were the ones who paid the ultimate price (52:20) Feels that the United States did not provide them with proper equipment for the war (53:20) Received M1’s, which is very accurate, but not good in close contact or at night (54:30) Chinese used the “burp” gun, which wasn’t accurate, which doesn’t matter at night (55:00) Herm later acquired a grease gun, which was similar to the burp gun (56:00) Carried it in his jeep at all times (56:20) Towards the end of the war, the Chinese used a lot of heavy artillery (56:45) Russians also gave the North Koreans T-34 tanks (57:00) United States ruled the air for the whole war (58:00) Took very heavy hit, and was called off the line with the Greeks (01:00:00) Loaded in to trucks and quickly moved away because the Chinese broke through a line (01:01:00) All the artillery was no more than 6-8 feet in front of the other (01:01:30) All of it was going at once (01:01:40) Got to their destination and Herm waited, but moved off to the side just in case artillery hit up there (01:02:45) Koreans had turned and ran where the Chinese broke through, but were able to plug the line back up (01:03:30) Ceasefire • A few weeks later, the Armistice was signed (01:03:40) • Stayed in his foxhole while the artillery was going over head, until the very second they agreed to a cease-fire (01:04:40) • Spent 5 or 6 months on the front lines (01:04:50) • Greeks imported more units after the ceasefire (01:05:00) • Got a lot of downtime after the ceasefire, went to Japan for a little bit (01:05:30) • Met a lot of Greeks, celebrated Easter with them and played soccer with them (01:06:05) • The whole Greek army attends church when they were able to have it (01:07:00) • Met some Koreans and traveled throughout South Korea during this time, as well (01:07:50) After the War • Was invited back in 2006 by the Korean government to visit as guests of the Korean government for 6 days (01:08:15) • Toured a museum, and saw a diorama of the wave attack he experienced (01:09:00) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Older Korean people were very thankful to him for his service (01:10:20) Korean children are taught English (01:11:05) Was discharged 30 days early at Great Lakes (01:11:50) Returned to school a totally different man (01:12:15) Began teaching school in southern California in a suburb of Los Angeles (01:12:40) Each summer break he would take classes at various California colleges for graduate school training (01:12:50) After 5 years, he had 2 sons and wanted to get his masters degree (01:13:20) His salary was 3500 dollars, which also included coaching (01:13:40) Signed up for a National Science Foundation grant and was accepted for that (01:14:00) Went to the University of Michigan for his masters (01:14:30) Did work with electron micography there (01:14:50) Went back to teach high school in Joliet, IL for 29 years (01:15:20) Taught in the classroom, chairperson of the math/science department and administrator of the building (01:16:00) Had 5 deans and 8 counselors under him, but did not like that part of his job (01:16:50) Loved teaching, not administrating (01:17:00) Went back to the classroom (01:17:15) Taught gifted kids (01:17:30) Was asked by the administration at the district level for his last 11 years (01:17:50) Also taught at anatomy and physiology at a Lewis University and Joliet Jr. College (01:18:20) Retired to MI because of his brother and wife (01:19:00) Works with the Tell America group to tell high school students about the Korean War (01:19:30) Wants kids to understand why America went to Korea in the first place (01:20:00) Gives the kids a history of why Korea happened, starting in 1910, when the Japanese invade Korea (01:21:00) Russia didn’t want to let the North Koreans have elections, which divided the country (01:23:50) Has one member of Tell America that was a prisoner of war, which is very interesting to hear his stories (01:25:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JongsmaH Title A name given to the resource Jongsma, Herm (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jongsma, Herm Description An account of the resource Herm Jongsma was born in 1931, during the Depression. As a result he moved around a lot as a child, but ended up going to Calvin College for a brief time. He was drafted to the Army in 1952 to serve in the Korean War. He was a light mechanic, but served as a liaison with the Greek battalion on the front line north of Seoul. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5b35d541b4befbade66c26ad1ec7dff3.mp4 427d59aecd3aa225816b4036f343cb5e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/15a66974523fd5a5ebc3528820b64e96.pdf 3c11699c8a59d609cd4f37729591ff8e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Cornelius Jonker World War II 58 minutes 34 seconds (00:00:20) Early Life -Born in September 1924 in Rusk, Michigan -His father was a pastor for a local farming church -Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan when he was still very young -Grew up in the southeast part of Grand Rapids and attended school there -Father insisted that he always did well in school in the areas of "conduct" and "effort" -He was the second oldest child and had three siblings -One older sister and a younger sister and a younger brother -Younger brother was killed in a car crash when he was only twenty two years old -His father died at sixty one years old due to health complications from smoking -First house that he remembers living in was on Dunham Street in Grand Rapids -Able to walk to school from that house -Lost that house during the Great Depression -Moved to a house on Alto Avenue (also in Grand Rapids) and attended Oakdale School -Parents bought a house on Warden Street and he spent his teen years there -Lived there when he received his draft notice -Attended Grand Rapids Christian High School -Graduated from there in 1942 (00:04:45) Getting Drafted -Received his a letter ordering him to report to Kalamazoo, Michigan on March 18, 1943 -In Kalamazoo he was given a physical exam, told he could choose the Army or the Navy -Chose the Navy and was given a colorblindness test -Didn't pass the test so he was reassigned to the Army -He was sworn in and given a week to go home before reporting for duty -On March 25, 1943 he was taken to the train station in Grand Rapids with his friend Maynard -They were en route to Camp Grant, Illinois to be processed -Remembers getting on the train with Maynard and seeing men gambling -It was a definite culture shock for him -Got to Camp Grant and was given a uniform, vaccinations, and an aptitude test -He took the typing test and was classified as a 405 Clerk Typist -Got assigned to the infantry which he wasn't excited about -Fortunatey, he was assigned to a service company in a regiment -Meant that he would be in the rear, mostly safe from combat (00:08:36) Basic Training -He boarded a train and was sent down to Camp Butner, North Carolina �-Once there he boarded a two and a half ton truck and was taken to the training camp in Camp Butner -Got assigned to K Company for the duration of basic training -Basic training lasted six weeks -Sergeant training him wasn't happy about training men that weren't going to fight alongside him -Training consisted of running, hiking, and going to the rifle range -Had to go on the "infiltration course" (nicknamed "Widow's Course" by the men) -Crawling under barbed wire while live rounds were fired over your head -In the middle of basic training he was able to take a driver's training course -Lasted two weeks -By the end of it he had a license that said he could drive anything up to a 2.5 ton truck (00:11:04) Stateside Duty -At the end of basic training he was assigned to be an assistant truck driver -Assistant truck driver basically did all of the work, truck driver just drove the truck -At one point he had an operation on one of his toes due to an infected and ingrown nail -Man named Corporal Simms came to him and said he needed an assistant company clerk -Cornelius took the job and became lifelong friends with Corporal Simms -As the assistant company clerk he would type up rosters and set payrolls for the men -Got to know the history of the men in his regiment -Cpl. Simms was made head of the payroll department which made Cornelius the company clerk -Became a Technician, 5th Class -He was reassigned to be the mail clerk for the company -Typed up paperwork for the 1st Sergeant and also collected and distributed mail -Eventually was reassigned to be a truck driver and went overseas as a truck driver (00:17:24) Serving in Germany Pt. 1 -When he was in Germany there was a time where he needed to go collect ammunition -Went out on the Autobahn to an ammo dump and collected the ammunition -Had to drive back at night without the lights on -Eventually made it back to 2nd Battalion safely -They were just inside Germany, close to the Belgian border -Saw a lot of bombed out towns -Air Force and ground forces had gone in first and driven the Germans out -His job as a truck driver was to make sure the troops had enough ammunition -Periodically saw a German V1 "Buzz Bomb" go overhead -If the rocket engine turned off then he knew that it was coming down and took cover -At night a lone German plane would fly over their position and randomly drop bombs on them -Nicknamed that plane "Bed Check Charlie" -Dropped devestating antipersonnel bombs -In the town of Simmerath there were jeeps trapped in the town �-Germans had the town covered with artillery fire making it difficult to get in -He volunteered to be one of the drivers to go in to recover the jeeps -Got into the town and started taking artillery fire -Shrapnel landed in the mud at his feet and was so hot that it sizzled -One by one, they managed to get the jeeps out of the town -Had to dodge German artillery on their way out (00:25:04) Deployment to the European Theatre -He was assigned to be a truck driver before his unit left the United States -NOTE: He was most likely in the 78th Infantry Division -Went up to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey on October 5, 1944 -NOTE: In the interview he says 1943, but the year would have actually been 1944 -Left on October 13, 1944 aboard the USS General G.O. Squier -Had to sleep in the hold on canvas cots in tight sleeping quarters -Fed two meals a day -Stank so bad in the galley that he ate on the deck of the ship -Some men got seasick, but he did not -They were part of a twenty ship convoy -Arrived at Plymouth, England on October 25, 1944 -While aboard the ship he would watch the other transports and the destroyers escorting them -Able to make it to England without incident other than a few U-Boat sightings -Prior to leaving the United States he had bought a pipe and a can of tobacco -Would pass the time on the ship sitting on deck and smoking his pipe -Also had cigarettes available and they were only five cents a pack -Quit smoking before he came home -He wasn't nervous about going overseas -He had his faith whenever he felt any uncertainty or apprehension -Never felt despair, or fear for his life though (00:29:42) Arrival in the European Theatre -After landing at Plymouth they took a train to Bournemouth, England and continued training -Boarded a troop transport and sailed across the English Channel, landing at Le Havre, France -In Le Havre there was a lot of rubble and he could really see the effects of the war -Boarded a "40 and 8" boxcar (designed to carry forty men, or eight horses) -Traveled in that across France bound for Belgium -It was rainy and muddy -When they got to Belgium they slept in barns -Remembers that the Belgian farmers were very friendly and very helpful -By now it was November 1944 -NOTE: The 78th Infantry Division reached Belgium on November 27, 1944 (00:32:07) Serving in Germany Pt. 2 -Simmerath, Germany was close to the Belgian border �-Had been reduced to ruins -Used the basements of buildings because those were still intact -His company followed infantry as they advanced into Germany -The 78th Infantry Division captured the Schwammenauel Dam in early February 1945 -In early March 1945 they captured the Ludendorff Bridge (aka the Bridge at Remagen) -Germans tried to destroy the bridge before its capture, but failed -After it was captured by U.S. forces the Germans tried to bomb it at night -Remembers American antiaircraft batteries firing at the German planes -Eventually the Germans were able to destroy the bridge -Proved to be irrelevant, U.S. forces were already across the river -After the bridge was destroyed Army Engineers set up a pontoon bridge -Didn't know much about the progress of the war, just knew that they were advancing -Only a few months after the the Ludendorff Bridge, Germany surrendered on May 8, 1945 (00:36:35) Incident with German Prisoners of War -After crossing the Rhine River he was traveling as part of a small, three truck convoy -They stopped on the side of the road to eat some lunch -They saw an American soldier running towards them, shouting for help -He led them to where he had come from which was a nearby road -Turned out that this man and a few others had captured some Germans -In the process of transporting them their jeep had struck a land mine -Two of the Germans had been killed and the third was in shock -Two of the American soldiers were wounded -Cornelius and the other drivers called in assistance and medics (00:41:42) Other Duties in Germany -One of his other duties as a truck driver was to transport dead GIs -Remembers recognizing one dead soldier as a medic that he had known in the U.S. (00:42:19) End of the War -When the war ended they weren't able to celebrate, but they were relieved that it was over -After the Germans surrendered they were sent to Bad Wildungen -It was a spa town that had hot baths -It was a nice place to be -They could go hunting in the woods around the town -There were German prisoners of war that would do menial tasks and help hunt -He was sent up to Maastricht, Holland on temporary duty for six weeks -This was around August 1945 -He was stationed there with three (or four) other men from the regiment with their trucks -His job was to take men from the train station to quarters in Maastricht �-The next day he would take them to resort towns for R&R -After dropping them off he'd pick up troops that were done with R&R -He was picked for that duty because he kept his truck clean and presentable -The atomic bombs were dropped on Japan while he was stationed in Maastricht -Good news because the division had been slated to participate in the invasion of Japan -After he was done at Maastricht he returned to his unit -Got promoted to be the motor pool sergeant -Part of the occupation force in Berlin for a little while -Got to see how ruined the city was (00:47:30) Coming Home -After Berlin he was sent to Camp Chesterfield, France to wait to be sent home -Sailed home on the SS George Washington -Same ship that President Wilson used during WWI to discuss the Treaty of Versailles -The voyage home was very rough -Landed in New York in January 1946 -First thing that he did was go to a restaurant and order a steak -A couple in the restaurant paid for his dinner out of gratitude for his service -From New York he took a train to Camp Atterbury, Indiana -Honorably discharged there and then went home to Grand Rapids -He had been in the service for thirty four months (00:50:02) Leave Time in the Army -He didn't have a lot of furlough time when he was in Europe -Most of his liberty was when he was still in the United States -Most of what he saw in Europe was what he saw while moving through Belgium and Germany -Only got to come home once before he was sent overseas -Remembers that his mother thought that she would never see him again (00:53:38) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 -Certain that being in the rear was a blessing -Doesn't believe that it affected him that much -He was offered a chance to reenlist and get promoted to master sergeant -Refused the offer though -Didn't hate being in the Army, just wanted to get out and go home -It didn't take anything away from him, and it definitely helped him to grow up (00:55:47) Life after the War -He started his own business later in life -After the war he was working in a factory running automatic screw machines -He and a friend started their own business in Hudsonville, Michigan -It became very successful -Named Topcraft Metal Products -Started that business when he was 47, and retired when he was 64 �-Came home and just moved on with his life (00:57:37) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -He is not ashamed of being a soldier -Thankful that he survived and is still around -Made some great friends in the Army, but also made some "enemies" � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonkerC1771V Title A name given to the resource Jonker, Cornelius Richard (Interview outline and video), 2015 Description An account of the resource Cornelius Jonker was born in September 1924 in Rusk, Michigan. When he was young his family moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan and he grew up there. After turning eighteen he received his draft notice and was sworn into the Army on March 18, 1943. He was processed at Camp Grant, Illinois and was sent to Camp Butner, North Carolina where he received basic training and driver's training. While at Camp Butner he served as a clerk and then as a truck driver for the 78th Infantry Division. In October 1944 the 78th Infantry Division left for the European Theatre, and by the end of November 1944 he was in Belgium. While in Europe he and his division saw action at Simmerath, the Schwammenauel Dam, and the Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen. After the war, he was stationed in Bad Wildungen, Germany; Maastricht, Holland; and Berlin, Germany. He was eventually sent home and was discharged from Camp Atterbury, Indiana in January 1946. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jonker, Cornelius Richard Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Deb (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-05-15 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a1eca5acf4e72a40831ce4615ca273a0.jpg c541c2a2a3598534596e7f6a2ad2dab5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PR6005.O4 R6 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0158 Title A name given to the resource Romance Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jordan, William James Description An account of the resource Binding of Romance, by Joseph Conrad and Ford M. Hueffer, published by McClure Phillips & Co., 1904. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1904 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/98da8e5c1ef4f9ca4979570e82f3d737.jpg db3b5611c2cd8d6f80920f188b93b529 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1796 .M9 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0279 Title A name given to the resource My Friend Prospero Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jordan, William James (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of My Friend Prospero, by Henry Harland, published by McClure, Phillips & Co., 1904. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1904 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9008e2d41852c4e23d8b43a68eb39bf7.jpg 4ad001f560d92cb39ca4efbc331f325a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS3503.U85 K5 1907 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0119 Title A name given to the resource Kilo: Being the Love Story of Eliph Hewlitt, Book Agent Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jordan, William James (Will) (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Kilo: Being the Love Story of Eliph Hewlitt, Book Agent, by Ellis Parker Butler, published by McClure, 1907. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1907 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/13ba0a56a56044ca97c7171da800caf9.pdf dac9ef9e988865a994e1b2c29983c771 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource De antiquitate Judaica [folium 36] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_036Josephus1470 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Josephus, Flavius Description An account of the resource One leaf of De antiquitate Judaica, De bello Judaico, by Flavius Josephus and translated by Rufinus Aquileiensis. Printed in Augsburg by Johann Schüssler in 1470. Illustrated with red rubricated initials. [GW M15160; ISTC ij00481000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Augsburg: Johann Schüssler Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Josephus, Flavius Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1470 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aquileiensis, Rufinus (translator) Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5155184a52b32781744b04ae2c1c852e.mp4 2ebafc5f19a213bf6c0e7c739852f272 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ef1fa10ad02f546f3a47302f3c0a9d1.pdf d57b9067e47f6336e118379f5ad40cdb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Era James Jouppi 1:35:52 Introduction (00:42)               Jim was born in Long Island, New York on December 10, 1948. Before he went to school, his father was in the Marine Corps and the family moved to Newport, Virginia when his father was called into service during Korea. They also lived in North Carolina, New York and eventually made contact with the automobile industry in Detroit. The family moved back to New York, where Jim went to high school at Concordia Prep in Bronxville. (02:11) It was an all boy’s prep school, and Jim graduated in 1966. After high school, Jim went to Cornell. He did not know what he wanted to do, but he was good at math and science. He also applied to MIT, but was not admitted. He flunked out his freshman year. Because he did not want to be drafted, his father sent him to Transylvania College in Lexington, Kentucky. Jim stayed there for one year, before going back to Cornell. He graduated with a degree in Civil Engineering To learn more about the Vietnam War, Jim joined the Vietnamese Mobilization Committee. (05:11) The group did not protest, but instead researched and studied the war and shared the truth. Jim was opposed to the Vietnam War because it was not about the people, he felt that it was really a war against communism and the Russians, and was just fought in Vietnam. Jim graduated from Cornell in 1971. Two weeks after he graduated, he received his draft notice and had to report to the draft board and was given his physical. (07:09) During the process, he was denied conscientious objector status because he was a Lutheran and that was not a passive religion. Jim had a medical problem with his hand that he wanted to have checked out, so instead of going to basic training, he was given a voucher to stay at a hotel next door to the draft board office. He was also given food vouchers and train fare for him to go and get his medical record. The doctor checked out his hand and said that he could give him a six month deferment and then be drafted or be drafted now. He chose to take the deferment. (09:32) Peace Corps (10:17)  Jim was inducted into the Peace Corps in August. He drove a taxi for five weeks before he joined. �          Prior to his departure, he took a bus to Detroit to visit his parents and then went to San Jose, California and left for Thailand. Jim was interested in joining the Peace Corps because he wanted to do something with his life. He tried out with the Environmental Protection Agency, but failed due to his poor eyesight. When he joined the Peace Corps, he was 1A, and could have been drafted at any time. At the time, the Peace Corps had five areas they worked in, Asia, South America and Africa were some of them. He did not have a preference, but was sent to Thailand. (12:55) Jim’s group was the first to be trained entirely in country. Before leaving, they went to San Francisco and rode the trolley cars. When they left, they had an unexpected overnight stay in Hong Kong. Everything was very nice and they stayed at a luxury hotel which was top notch. (14:26) They arrived in Thailand in the middle of the night, now one day late, and the Peace Corps staff was there at the airport to greet them and put lei’s around their necks and welcomed them. Jim was then taken to a policemen’s resort to undergo his training. The group consisted of eleven engineers and construction volunteers and one agriculturist. The agricultural volunteer could not figure out why he was there with the civil engineers. Jim later found out that the man was approached by the CIA and was asked to join but he had already joined the Peace Corps. The man was sent home and joined a different group. (16:45) Thailand (17:20)            The training that the group was given included survey work, drafting, blueprint design, and building spill ways for drainage water. Since they did not have any earth moving equipment, everything had to be dug by hand. One cubic meter, per villager, per day. They also had intensive language courses, which lasted six hours a day, with only an hour or two devoted to the technical aspects. (19:41) Jim was also taken around to some of the temples and received other cultural training. The training program lasted eight weeks, and once he completed it, they were sent to a northern province for two weeks to conduct a practice project. (21:32) During the project, the Thai military came and guarded the interpreters for reasons that Jim never figured out. Twenty to thirty soldiers came everyday. After that, they were sent to Bangkok and were sworn in, and then they were given their actual assignments. Jim was stationed on the Mekong River in north east Thailand (23:43) The Peace Corps informed them that they were employed by the Thai Government, but the government did not know why they were there. One volunteer was developing an urban homestead, and improved the house and built a water system creating running water. (26:26) To keep track of the workers, paperwork was often filed, and they were given per diem for being there even though no real work was being done. (28:50) �                   Most of the forms were not filled out truthfully, because the men felt it was a joke and just something they had to do, which caused some tension between Jim and the others. (30:07) Jim was planning several projects, but when they were about to begin, the Thai Foreign Service officer said they didn’t want them to be done, so four of the six projects that year were cancelled. For the other projects that year, Jim gave one to his friend who wanted to get away from his wife for a couple of months and the sixth was the least funded of all of them but it turned out pretty well. (32:52) Jim had a good relationship with the locals, including a village head man, whom he stayed with. The head man's wife cooked food for them, and Jim would bring her food from the market because he did not care for the local cuisine of locusts, frogs and red ants that they would often eat. Jim could speak central Thai, which was different than the dialect of where he was staying. By smoking marijuana, Jim learned that the awkwardness of the situation went away while he was high, so he smoked it with his G.I. buddies. (34:54) He would also smoke from a communal bong, which helped break down the cultural barriers that they had. The work he was doing was in 1973. Other work that was done, involved paid workers from another adjoining province. Jim always wondered how they could afford that, and he later learned the CIA was working out of the province that the workers had come from. (38:06) The American presence was high within the towns and city centers. The G.I.s had no restrictions, except a midnight curfew. Where Jim was, they had 52 G.I. bars. The girls that went into the bars had to have a valid VD card (Venereal Disease) to make sure they did not have any diseases that could be transferred to the servicemen. To get into a bar without having their cards checked, the women would often ask Jim to accompany them into the bar, because girls with an American did not have to show their cards. (40:18) VD was a fairly big problem, and Jim contracted it twice himself. The servicemen could live off of base in a pretty nice place for only fifty dollars a month. And sometimes a couple of men would share it. The houses had electricity, and piped water, but would not have a refrigerator or a flush toilet. The Air Force had a Civic Action zone ten miles around the base. They had particular interest there and watched for communists. (42:34) Roads were built and maintained there and bridges were also built. Jim also sponsored an English speaking school, but he was not allowed to teach so he got G.I.’s to teach the classes. The Air Force also hosted the MEDCAP (Medical Civil Action Program) which provided medical and dental attention to the locals. (44:50) Jim lived outside of town a couple of miles and had a big two story home. He also had a motorcycle, which he drove into town. His house did not have electricity or running water. �     The adjustment to the lower standard of living was easy for Jim. He was considered to be wealthy in Thailand. (46:47) The standard tour for the Peace Corps is two years, with many people serving in Thailand extending to stay longer. Thailand had the highest extension rate out of any other country at that time. (48:29) The rate of extension was higher for men than women. Jim believes this is because of the cultural perceptions that Thai men held for women. (50:02) Jim always believed that women of good standing would not be socially interested in the Americans there, but he was approached by two at a bar one day and they said they wanted to get to know him, which was unusual. The two wanted to teach him Thai, and he found himself attached to one of them and he extended for a third year. She was a government worker who had a law degree from one of the best universities in Thailand. (52:50) Back in the States (54:43)              Jim left Thailand in 1973 after being there for three years. His goal was to get a job and bring his Thai girlfriend to the states. He found employment as a civil engineer trainee in Denver, Colorado. Jim wrote to her everyday and asked her to come and live with him. However, she was never able to come. Jim found out that the Peace Corps director had very close ties to the CIA, and was there to keep the Peace Corps from interfering in the war effort in Vietnam. (56:32) This country director terminated early and left almost exactly when President Nixon resigned. While still in country, Jim feels that the American people had no idea what they were doing nor did they care. (58:47) Once, Jim asked the headman if the main road going into town was safe from the communists. (1:00:23) The headman would never leave his water buffalo out at night because he was afraid of the communists stealing it. The headman also believed there were ghosts that lived along the road because there was no village around. While driving back to the village early one morning he spotted a taunt wire that went across the entire road that was pinned to the ground on both sides, below it were strange coiled wires. (1:04:45) Jim went back to the headman and alerted him that it was there. He thought that it was a communist land mine, and he wanted to send other villagers to guard it while he went to the Air Base for help. The headman called a town meeting and told Jim that it was simply a rabbit trap and not a mine. (1:07:12) Jim was very embarrassed and went back up the road to where he had seen the rabbit trap and saw a boy from the village taking it down. Today, Jim believes that the communist insurgency was trumped up by the CIA for various reasons. (1:09:59) When he was back in the states, he did not have a marketable skill and he did not want to pursue civil engineering. � He later joined the Army when he was thirty four years old; to get G.I. Bill benefits and then went to the Post Office. (1:13:08) Joining the Army (1:13:34)                Jim did not want to join, but he had a friend that was in and said that if he could get a medical job it would be like any other job, but with good benefits. The recruiter only had a quota of two people per month. Jim conducted his basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. When he did his field training his roommate said that it was thirty below. He became a medic and had his advanced training at Fort Sam Houston in Texas. (1:15:33) Jim’s first permanent duty station was in Germany for a year and a half and then he was stationed in Alabama for the last year of his service. He served a total of three years. He enlisted in the Army in November 1983. In basic training, the other recruits viewed him as the old man. Some of the recruits were from the streets and had no discipline at all. Those recruits were weeded out quickly. The other men he was with were very supportive. (1:17:02) While in Germany, he was stationed in Kitzingen near Heidelberg. Jim earned the field medical badge while stationed in Germany. In basic training, the recruits were told that war had broken out and that they were going to be sent there, but it was a trick the Drill Sergeants played on the recruits. (1:19:37) The Americans could go into the Soviet territory and the Soviets could go into American territory, and there was no real fear from a war with the Soviet Union. One of the NCO’s at Fort Leonard Wood was a Vietnam veteran, Jim also served with a man in Germany that served two tours in Vietnam. (1:21:36) When Jim was in Germany, the locals did not really care for the Americans. The women would not throw themselves at Americans like what he encountered in Thailand. (1:23:14) He tried to learn the language, but he could not speak it around the airbase because everyone spoke English. Civilian Life (1:24:40)        After Jim was discharged from the service, he worked for [CFAT], which was a company that prepared missionaries going out into the field. (1:25:34) He stayed there for a year, then moved to Grand Rapids and went to the Jordan Energy Institute, which did not turn out well because there was not much market at the time. In 1988, Jim went to England and studied Tropical Public Health Civil Engineering and obtained his Master’s Degree. After that, he applied to the Peace Corps again once he returned to the states but was turned down because he was too political. Then he got a job at the Post Office. (1:27:06) Jim has been back to Thailand several times. Jim was married in 2002 to his pen pal that he had been in contact with. �      Thailand is quite different now than it was then. They have electricity, telephones and running water. He went back in 1985, when plane tickets were not so expensive. He visited again in 1997, 2007 and 2012. On his last visit, he met up with the headman that he worked with during the Peace Corps, and he still remembered him. (1:29:48) When he was there, he saw that the government has issued large water urns that collect rain water, which gives the people a clean source of fresh water to use and drink. During all the times he was there, he has never had any health problems. Except when he first arrived, he got Montezuma’s Revenge, but has never gotten it since. (1:31:23) Jim feels that his time in the Peace Corps was important, and also feels that glorifying war should not be done. Instead, he feels that people should be sent to foreign countries to help the people, not kill them. He does not feel patriotism about watching Memorial Day services, and does not feel like the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are protecting him. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JouppiJ1486V Title A name given to the resource Jouppi, James (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jouppi, James Description An account of the resource James was born on Long Island, December 10, 1948. His father was in the Marine Corps and served in Korea. The family moved around during his childhood but they eventually settled back in New York. After graduating from high school in 1966, Jim went to Cornell University. He flunked out and tried another school to avoid the draft. He later graduated from Cornell with a degree in Civil Engineering. He joined the Peace Corps in 1971 and was stationed in Thailand. After being there for three years, he returned home and eventually joined the United States Army and served as a medic in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Peace Corps (U.S.) Vietnam Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1954856bd4028a6df1c980f1e57c97de.pdf fa3868b783ddc30c9d07ff330a63dddf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Darin Jousma Yugoslav Wars & War on Terror 9 minutes 1 second (00:00:13) Early Life -Lived with his parents before enlisting in the Army -Had a part-time job when he was in high school (00:00:32) Enlisting in the Army & Training -Enlisted in the Army in the summer of 1997 after graduating from high school -Joined the infantry because he liked the idea of being an infantryman -Training was extremely rough -Never experienced treatment like that before (00:01:22) Stationed in Bosnia -Deployed to Bosnia as part of a peacekeeping force in 1998 -Inspected weapons bunkers and made sure the Serbs were not moving weapons -No combat -Remembers going to confiscate weapons from a group of Serbian troops -The Serbs pulled their weapons and pointed them at the American troops -American troops radioed in two Apache helicopters to circle the area -Show of force against the Serbs to show they were no longer in charge -Serbs dropped their weapons and walked away (00:03:13) Downtime in the Army -Read a lot of books -Played a lot of video games -Played cards with friends (00:03:26) Friends in the Army -Made lifelong friends in the Army -Drives across the country just to see them (00:03:45) Contact with Home -When he was at the barracks in Germany he had access to telephones -Spent a lot of money on phone cards and calling-collect -Now, he has Skype and voice chat virtually anywhere in the world (00:04:27) Stationed in Kuwait -Got to Kuwait just before Thanksgiving 2004 -Celebrated Thanksgiving and Christmas 2004 in Kuwait -Wasn't too difficult -Didn't like being away from home for his birthday though -Had his birthday in Kuwait shortly before being sent home (00:05:21) Skills in the Army -Learned a lot about IT in the Army -Proved useful in the civilian world (00:06:02) Current Service Pt. 1 -As of the interview, Darin is in the Michigan National Guard (00:06:11) Coming Home -Returning from a deployment is one of the best moments of your life -Strange to return to a world with hot showers and flushing toilets �-One thing he missed about deployments was being around and working with close friends (00:07:13) Stationed at Fort Riley -Spent a couple years at Fort Riley, Kansas -Assigned to the 2nd of the 78th Armor -Most likely 2nd Battalion -Served as the unit commander's driver -Fantastic job -First job he had in the Army where he had a lot of control over his daily schedule -Mingled with high-ranking officers and saw the command process (00:08:16) Current Service Pt. 2 -Currently a 2nd lieutenant in the Michigan National Guard -Will be promoted to 1st lieutenant one month from the interview's date � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JousmaD1843V Title A name given to the resource Jousma, Darin Richard (Interview outline), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-02-11 Description An account of the resource Darin Jousma enlisted in the Army in the summer of 1997 after graduating from high school. He served in Bosnia in 1998 as part of a peacekeeping force helping with the confiscation of weapons and stopping Serbian forces from moving weaponry and ordnance around the country. He was stationed in Kuwait in 2004. He spent a few years at Fort Riley, Kansas with the 2nd Battalion, 78th Armored Regimant and worked as a commander's driver. As of the time of the interview he is in the Michigan National Guard with the rank of 2nd lieutenant and expects to be promoted to 1st lieutenant. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jousma, Darin Richard Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jousma, Josh (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9f14aa35a393b1b13ff1e8eb5fe90f7.mp4 86871b3c8ee560e592e8456369fa8d77 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1cf635fc7828bbbf51d42b0c7b1af8ad.pdf 0370989bd2f17e0f850f9b5b11353493 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam Name of Interviewee: Ron Joyner Length of Interview: 00:31:02 Background:  Born May 1948.  Served in the US Army in Vietnam and the Cold War  He was born in Macon, Georgia.  His father was a farmer and his mother was a housewife. He has one sister.  Before he entered the service, he went to the University of Georgia. He had a business degree, and was hoping to do something with accounting.  He finished school and was drafted in the 1st lottery. His number was 35.  He was all ready to attend graduate school, when he got his draft notice. He had gone through all the physical tests, and with a number like 35, he knew that he was going to be headed to war.  He went into the Army and served his time. When he got back he picked up where he had left off, and went on from there.  He was the first in his immediate family who served in the military. Basic Training (2:30)           He left early in the year of 1970 to go to Fort Jackson, South Caroline, where he took basic training. He thought basic training was an interesting event. It was there you got used to the military, and got used to being away from your family for the first time. It was an interesting time. He found it was more difficult mentally, rather than physically, getting used to the regiment, the discipline, and getting through it. It was also difficult getting used to the South Carolina weather. During that time, there was a lot of controversy about the war in Vietnam, and a lot of people were moving to Canada. (4:00) The biggest deal was getting used to it all. Suddenly your whole world was upside down. He actually found the experience to be quite fun. He met a lot of great guys when he was there. He knew of his neighbor leaving for Canada, instead of getting drafted. He believes it was a personal choice, even if he did not agree with it. Even today, you can see the divide in the culture world about the choices that people made back then. He did not want to leave, because he knew that he would want to come back. He also did not want to have to tell his kids and grandkids that he did that. He was married when he was drafted. Flight School (5:45) �       After he got done with basic training, he went to flight school for helicopter training. He went to Fort Rucker, Alabama for his additional training. Because he was young, and in good shape, he did not find any of the physical training to be difficult at all. The biggest difficulty was adapting to the disciplined life there. Even today he still folds his socks a certain way, and puts them in certain places in his dresser. One thing he really learned was to live with people from all over the country, who lead very different live than he did. It was quite a learning experience adapting to others. (7:20) It would all add to the comradely that he had with the people there. Active Duty (8:02)          He served both in Vietnam and in Germany, during the Cold War. While he served in the Army, in both places, he learned a lot about teamwork. He learned that in order to be successful you had to have confidence that the people were going to do their job, so you could do yours. In Germany, it was a period of time, when you did not always have the best equipment as it was going to Vietnam and Southeast Asia. Looking back in history, he thinks that the people working in those areas were incredible. He remembers doing patrols in Germany, and he did not think much about it. Years later, however, he looks back on how his and others duties brought about the Cold War. When he served in Vietnam, he and everyone around him were worried about the Domino Theory. They worried that if one country fell to communism, others would follow. (10:40) He thinks that is why they fought so hard in Vietnam to keep from losing. At the end of the day, they lost to Vietnam, but did not see the Domino they feared so much. The same happened while he served in Germany. He believes that the strength that America had in keeping communism from spreading would be the ultimate key in achieving victory. Looking back now, he says that we actually won. Germany (12:05)       Germany was great. It was a very different country than the USA. He lived with a German family while he was there and it was a great experience. They welcomed them with open arms and became part of that family. They went to all the festivals with them. When he was there, he remembers using a very outdated helicopter. They were in the process of getting rid of those and eventually brought in a new model. However, this newer model had some problems, and they were all grounded for several months. An army of engineers was sent in to try to fix the problem. There was not a lot to do at the time, but it was great to be in Germany. �        His wife was there with him, and they traveled the countryside. The neighbors and family they lived with then, they still keep in contact today. His daughter was born in Germany as well. A year ago, his wife took her back to Germany to see where she was born and to see the family. It was a rewarding time. And there was good food too and good beer. (14:25) When his daughter was born, the army had missed the due date considerably. One morning, his wife started having labor pains. He was told not to go to the hospital until the labor pains were more consistent. And they were a long way from the hospital. She called her husband at work, but he told her to wait. His friend’s wife went over to the house and stayed with her until he got home. That night she kicked him out of bed and demanded to go to the hospital. They drove to the hospital in the snow. They tried to get over a hill, but a train was coming, so they slid all the way back down the hill and waited for the train and started again. When he got her to the hospital, they said it was going to be a while, and sent him home. He got back to the house and fell asleep at the kitchen table. He woke up to the smell of boiling, burning coffee. He went back to the hospital, where he found his wife walking around, trying to get the baby to drop. He thinks they must have walked 25 miles that day. Finally the doctors just took the baby by C-section. (18:25) Vietnam (19:26)             Vietnam did not have many big battles. There were some firefights. Instead it was more like an air raid. He brought people in to fight and when they needed more, he brought more in. He always equated it to a good bus driver. It is difficult sometimes, knowing you have lost friends. The friendships he formed still were alive today. They kept in touch mainly by letters. One time he got a phone call that was nice. Most of the time, people just tried to make it through the day. They were all in a bad situation, and they grew close. A camaraderie formed, and they are still close today. A couple of them recently passed away due to cancer. Years later, everyone remembers the funny things that happened. People do not ever try to remember the bad, because it was always there. You never forget the bad, but what really lights you up is the funny things, and each other. When Vietnam ended, he was traveling in Georgia. He went into a hotel and heard it on the television. He knew that morning that it was basically over, and when they showed the chaos of the evacuation of the embassy, he knew it was over, regardless of how you felt about it. (24:25) The end of the Cold War was a much more joyous time, as it was a clear victory. He remembers turning on the T.V. and watching the Germans take hammers to the wall. Everyone was drinking and having a good time. �Post Duty (26:00)  He had been out of the army 2 years after Vietnam ended.  Everyone knew it was ending, just not the specifics.  He likes to look at the Ford Museum that is here in town, because Ford was president at the time. There are a lot of really neat things that he sees there. He believes that President did a wonderful job at the time.  His family was overjoyed to see him come home, though society as a whole was not particularly welcoming.  There was always coolness to some people.  He was glad to be home and be a civilian at the time.  He kept in touch with letters, phone calls, and some visiting. Mostly phone calls though.  He has not been involved with any veteran’s organizations after he got done. He got out and picked up where he left off and made a career after that.  The Army and the experiences that went with it had a great impact on him. He learned to get along with other people; he learned that can-do attitude can get you a long ways. Everything he learned there served him well in his future. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JoynerR1066V Title A name given to the resource Joyner, Ron (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Joyner, Ron Description An account of the resource Ron Joyner was drafted into the Army in 1970 as part of the first group to be drafted through the lottery system. He volunteered for helicopter pilot training, which he took at Fort Rucker, Alabama, and was then sent to Germany. From there, he was sent to Vietnam toward the end of American involvement there. Most of his missions in Vietnam involved ferrying troops into the field and bringing them back again, and he does not recall being involved in any large battles. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Blakeney, Julia (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f0646e755247820180ac04841e324ac.pdf 60e3a5bb08e6b86ec548b2eea3dfe69d PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Mrs. Siegel Judd (Dorothy Leonard) Interviewed on September 17, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape #13 (1:05:11) Biographical Information Dorothy S. Leonard was born 14 September 1898 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, the daughter of Harry Carr Leonard and Willie Thomas Stansbury. She died 14 February 1989 at Porter Hills Presbyterian Village in Grand Rapids. Dorothy married Siegel Judd 29 June 1922 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Siegel was born Siegel Wright on 19 June 1895 in Kent County. He was the son of Addison Wright, the brother of Mrs. Lillian (Edward C.) Judd, who adopted and raised Siegel. Siegel died 4 September 1982. Mrs. Judd’s father was Harry Carr Leonard, born 25 December 1874 in Grand Rapids, the son of Charles H. and Emma (Carr) Leonard. Harry died 14 February 1956 at the age of 81. The mother of Mrs. Judd was Willie Thomas Stansbury, born in Delaware, Ohio, 18 August 1875 and she died in Grand Rapids on 21 March 1938. Their marriage took place in Lafayette, Indiana on 23 June 1897. ____________ Interview conducted with Mrs. Siegel W. Judd on September 17, 1971. Mrs. Judd: You asked me about the flavor of life in Grand Rapids when I was young, I think one of the predominant characteristics was the closeness of family life. My family really was not patriarchy, but a grand patriarchy, you might say, with my grandfather Leonard heading it up; and so, I’m going to want to tell you something about my grandfather so you’ll understand that family life. In the first place, he was always looking to the future. I never remember him talking about the past except when sometimes I asked him questions about it. He was always envisioning the needs of the community and the needs of business and industry, the new technologies, we’d call it today. I think they didn’t use that work; management systems, we’d call it today. But he was into these things and I think he’d be quite surprised to know that you young people wanted to know about the past. For example, really he was called in the refrigerator business the ―Granddaddy of the Refrigerator Business,‖ because he really was the inventor of the refrigerator, if you can say that anything as complicated was a single invention. But prior to that time, and this was along in the eighteen eighties there was no such thing as refrigeration. People had boxes, and they put ice in them; but, they didn’t have drainage, they weren’t cleanable, and only the people in the north who could get ice had refrigeration. In the south they couldn’t get ice, so they had to have other methods. I can remember my grandfather trying to sell the people in the south, on the idea of an icebox, as we called it in those days; and later on trying to sell the idea in South America and Europe. So it was pretty much in the northern part of the states that the idea of refrigeration got �2 going. I have his patents, oh, on hinges and locks and linings and drain pipes, and trays and all the things that go into a refrigerator. It was a seasonal business, too, because people only felt they needed it in the summertime. They always manufactured in the winter and piled them up in warehouses, ready to sell in the summertime. And of course, here in Grand Rapids the ice pretty much came from Reed’s Lake. I never think of Reed’s Lake as freezing so deep today, but where the East Grand Rapids Junior High School is, there was a great big wooden warehouse, storage house. The big drays, with great big horses, would go out on the ice and cut the ice, and put it in this storage house, and cover it with sawdust. That’s where our ice came for the iceboxes, in those early days. But, my grandfather wasn’t satisfied with an icebox. We have a scrapbook of his clippings that he cut out in the eighteen nineties with ideas about how to have what he called an ―iceless refrigerator,‖ and when I was a little girl, we were always experimenting on how to have a cold refrigerator without ice. I can remember one icebox where my father cut a big hole in the side of it down at the bottom and set an electric fan, with a wet flannel over it, in that hole to see if that wouldn’t be one way to get refrigeration. Another thing, one of his early interests, was the need for what he called pure water in Grand Rapids. Our water was so bad that people didn’t drink it; and if they did, they often died of typhoid fever. There was a big death rate from typhoid fever in Grand Rapids. Of course, the water we had was river water. My grandfather’s scrapbook has pictures in it of a barrel, I can remember, with sand in the bottom and gravel on the top experimenting filtering water through it to see if it wouldn’t purify the water. That’s back in the eighteen nineties. In nineteen four there was a World’s fair in St. Louis, and my grandfather went down there because St. Louis had a filtration plant. When he came back, he built an eight-foot model of it and persuaded the city government to set it up in the city hall so people could see what filtration could mean to Grand Rapids. Then, in nineteen seven, there was a campaign. I’ve forgotten whether it was to decide to build a plant or, I think it must have included the bond issue. I can show you, in a few minutes, my grandfather’s accounts of money he raised for that campaign for pure water. It was defeated: and I think it was defeated again around nineteen eleven. If you want to know more about pure water, John Martin also worked on this; and Mrs. Richard Meade can tell a lot about it. And of course, it wasn’t until nineteen seventeen that they finally built the plant and we began to have pure water. That seems very recent to me, maybe it doesn’t to you! But this made a tremendous reduction in the death rate of typhoid fever the very next year. That was another one of his forward-looking interests. Another example: That was my grandfather’s father who came to Grand Rapids originally, and I’d like to go back to that later, but I’d like to go on with some of these forward looking things of my grandfather’s. He was born on Monroe Street in a little frame house bordering now on what’s the McKay Tower, where the Houseman Clothing Store is now. It was a general store his father had on the first floor, and they lived on the second floor. After my grandfather grew up and began to be active in the business, they decided they should have a new building there. So, I don’t know the exact date, but sometime in the eighties I think it was, he built the brick building that stands there now, that. Houseman Clothing Store is in. Well, to do that, he had to rent a store across the street for his business. He was never a man to spend any more dollars than he had to, so he was in a great hurry to get the building done. At that time, the Edison Incandescent Lamp came out. He was the first one to use this in Grand Rapids. So, they went on with their construction at night, with the new Edison light. �3 Another new thing that he did, he was great on construction. He never had a college education; he wasn’t an engineer, but he was a great inventor. So, when in nineteen seven, they built the big plant on Clyde Park, which became the Kelvinator Plant after we sold it to Kelvinator. He built it of hollow cement blocks. Nobody had ever heard of building with hollow cement blocks. He mixed the cement mixture himself. And everybody said: ―Oh, Leonard’s building’s going to fall down for sure!‖ It was a great big building and they called it ―Leonard’s Elephant.‖ But, it’s still there and it’s been greatly enlarged by future owners of the plant. Then he had a great interest in educating youngsters and especially in developing skills. Now here today we’ve got these new skill centers about to open and we’re very excited about them; but along in nineteen four or five, my grandfather introduced manual training into the public schools; woodworking for boys, and sewing and cooking for girls. This was what you might call the beginning of occupational training for children. I have a clipping of a letter he wrote to the ―Public Pulse,‖ oh, maybe it was back in the teens, I’ve forgotten just when, recommending oneway streets. We had no one-way streets. In fact when I was on the city planning commission in the forties, we were beginning to recommend one-way streets, and it just raised Cain in the town. People would not have one-way streets! But, my grandfather said that this had to come, and he suggested it for what was then Commerce Street, which at that time went clear through to Monroe and created a lot of traffic problems with Commerce and Division so close coming into Monroe Street. He had the second automobile in Grand Rapids; it was a Knox, and it had three wheels. This is when they lived on Fulton Street in the John Ball House, which had great big stables down behind the house, where they had a beautiful carriage and a pair of white horses. Of course, they didn’t dare put the automobile there because they figured the automobile and the horses wouldn’t get along together very well. The house went downhill at the rear so that you could get into the basement from the ground, so the Knox was put in the basement. I can remember grandpa used to have an awful time getting up Fulton Street hill with the car. All the boys would line up and shout: ―Get a horse, mister‖. Then, of course, in the refrigerator business along came electrical refrigeration finally. It really developed during the war, the first war. And so we started selling the boxes to Frigidaire that made the motors. These were the first electric refrigerators. But my grandfather felt that the future of his business depended on his developing an electrical motor, and building the whole business. So, he bought land south of the Clyde Park plant to build a new plant to build motors. This was in nineteen twenty-four, about, and he was eighty years old. He was ready to build a new plant and experiment with a new product at that age. And of course, the poor old fellow; all his family said no. Nobody else in the family could do this, and grandpa was too old and really it just broke his heart. He just went downhill after that. Interviewer: Who said no? Mrs. Judd: The family, the rest of the family. Of course you must understand that industries in those days were family industries, they were not publicly owned. The whole family, including my father and my two sister’s families were all dependent on the refrigerator, and they all worked there and my cousins worked there, and my uncles, and my mother’s father. It was really a family affair. So, if it had gone into bankruptcy over this effort to build a new plant without the leadership of my grandfather, the whole family would have gone down the drain. So they had to say they couldn’t do it. This was the reason that they finally sold the plant to the Kelvinator �4 people, who were making electric refrigerator motors at that time, and who wanted to own a box factory. Frigidaire was part of General Motors and they built their own box factory. I would suggest you tape a conversation with my husband on this. The new Grand Rapids history is very inadequate and somewhat inaccurate on this thing of the refrigerator business here. My husband was the attorney in the sale, and he knows all about it. He was also attorney for many of the big furniture plants here, and he’d be a good one to talk to on the relationship of the whole furniture industry to life in Grand Rapids. It was very vital, the part that it had in family life and general living. Now let’s see. Shall we go back and talk about where the family came from? You’ve suggested this. My grandfather’s name was Charles H. Leonard and his father’s name was Heman. Heman came, his family originally - from New England and had lived a few years in Monroe County, New York state, near Rochester. Then old - oh dear! I forget Heman’s father’s name – anyway he had several sons and he said to them all, you must go west young man. And he offered each of them two hundred acres of land in Michigan if they would go and settle in Michigan. Some of them stopped around Detroit; and around Saginaw you’ll find Leonard families today. I don’t know them but I know that they’re there. Heman did what many people did who were moving west, when they came along the Erie Canal and Lake Erie and got to Detroit. Then they took, I suppose what was called, the old Territorial Road, which was practically I-ninety-four now, across southern part of the state, so that Jackson, Battle Creek, and Kalamazoo are all older communities than Grand Rapids: and then many of them came from the southern part of the state and moved up to Grand Rapids. And that was true of Heman Leonard. He lived a few years in Three Rivers and then came up here. The third wife he married, her family, her name was Mariah Winslow and her father was a doctor, and they lived near Kalamazoo. They came up here in eighteen thirty-five orseven. He was the first doctor, incidentally to perform any kind of service in the Grand Rapids area, and he came up on horseback from Kalamazoo to do it. Interviewer: And that was who? Winslow? Mrs. Judd: Dr. Winslow. The Baxter history tells about this. Evidently he liked Grand Rapids, so two years later he and his daughter Mariah came up here. You know, a lot of these hard working pioneers wore out several wives. Mariah was not the mother of my grandfather, but she was the stepmother who really brought up the two Leonard boys; Frank and Charles and Fred the three of them. So, she was a great influence in the family. She’s buried out in the Fulton Cemetery along with all the rest of the Leonards. In eighteen forty-two, she was the only woman on a committee of seven men who founded the First Baptist Church. It was really her influence that kept the Leonard family in what is now the Fountain Street Church all down through the years. I wish I knew more about her, she sounds like a wonderful person. Interviewer: Why did Heman Leonard remove from his farm to Grand Rapids? Mrs. Judd: Siegel and I were talking about that this morning. Why did people come to Grand Rapids, because it was offbeat from the normal transportation routes even in the pioneer days, just as it was in the development of railroads? It had railroads much later than Kalamazoo did. And still today in the airlines, we’re really offbeat. We don’t have the service that the lines from Detroit to Chicago get. But, I think Siegel would really be able to give you a better picture of this economically. The kind of people who came here from New England were not the fly-by-nights �5 that were just all the time going west to find something new. They were quite substantial businessmen in New England, and in New York state, and they became so when they came here. They came here with the idea of settling down, stabilizing; this had made this a stable community. And it was a center of trade for the lumber camps, and even for the copper country. It was the farthest north, settled community, and a lot of those really settled in Grand Rapids. Of course my grandfather’s (Oh, I’m skipping around now) as I told you, his father started a general store on Monroe Street, so he went on with this, my grandfather did when he grew up, and started in the wholesale business. There is a lot of wholesale business here, supplying stores all the way up and down Western Michigan. Grandpa told me that his first wholesale business was: he went down to Ohio, and he got a freight car full of kerosene lamps, and those clay pickle jars and… Interviewer: Crocks? Mrs. Judd: …took them up to the---crocks-, yes—and took them up to the lumber camps and that was the beginning of H. Leonard and Sons. Have you ever heard of that store? That store didn’t go out of business till in the nineteen fifties. It was one hundred eight years old when they finally---the family--- sold it to the men who so long had been running the store. Interviewer: What’s the name of the store now? Mrs. Judd: Well, it doesn’t exist anymore. The building is there, it’s on the corner of Fulton and Commerce, and Dykstra, [is] there a warehouse, I think. Interviewer: Oh yes, it’s a furniture… (Mrs. J. – I don’t know what ….) Mrs. Judd:. I don’t know what their business is or what’s in it, but on the front door you’ll still see the bronze plaque that says H. Leonard and Sons. H. Leonard was my great-grandfather, and his sons, my grandfather Charles and his brother Frank. Frank Leonard was the father of Mrs. Noyes Avery, Senior. Mrs. Judd: Let’s see, well just a word about the family-nature of the industry. As I said, all of us were in it, and were proud of it, used to take all our guests over to see it. It was very interesting because in those days a factory made every part of what they needed for a product. So that there was not only the woodworking in the days when there were wood refrigerators, but there was metal working. When they began to make porcelain linings they had the big furnaces that baked the porcelain. When they made trays that---you know, wire trays—that were tin covered, they did that process. They had a brass foundry that made hinges and the locks. So it was a very interesting place to go and to see. Also, there was a very close contact between my grandfather and all of the people who worked in the plant. He was always concerned when there was illness or trouble or the children needed some education. He’d go and call on them all and he knew them all. Then there was always the picnic, the annual picnic usually up at Bostwick Lake, and with all the workers and their families. There was a full day’s program of baseball and games. I remember watching my grandfather in the cigar smoking contest. He always could smoke that down to the pin faster than anybody else could. I told you that he was interested in what, today, we’d call management systems. He was the first person, I think, in the city to try to adopt some of the new ideas of efficiency in managing the plant. There was a Frenchman who was famous �6 for this; he was called an ―Efficiency Engineer,‖ named Charles Bedeaux. Have you ever come across that? Interviewer: No…… Mrs. Judd: It’s B E D E A U X, and he came and lived here all one winter and installed this efficiency system. He later married a Grand Rapids girl—this is just gossip on the side, I don’t know whether you want it or not--Interviewer: Who did he marry? Mrs. Judd: He married Fern Lombard, which was also an old family here, from Maine. They went back to France, and they became very wealthy, and they bought a beautiful big chateau, and when the Prince of Wales couldn’t find a place where he could marry—what’s the girl he married? Interviewer: The present Duchess…? Mrs. Judd: The American divorcee… Interviewer: Simpson, Mrs. Simpson. Mrs. Judd: Yes, Mrs. Simpson. They invited them to be married in their chateau. This is a story from the Lombards of Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Were they married there? Mrs. Judd: Yes. Bedeaux later became a Nazi in France and he was tried and, I think executed. I’m not sure about that; don’t put that down for a fact. About this time I came out of Vassar College, where I had majored in Economics and Political Science. I had taken some courses in labor management, so I came home to tell my grandfather how to run his labor problems. And you know he didn’t laugh at me, he took me seriously: and he took me out to the factory and he got out these great big charts of the organization of the factory, and talked to me just as though he were going to get ready to hire me for his personnel manager! I respected him very much for that, but this was the beginning of my interest in personnel work, which, of course, has pursued me clear down to the end of the state Civil Service Commission job a couple of years ago. In our family life, I think probably, like many families, my grandfather wanted to keep everybody close to him, and every Sunday we all went to their house for dinner. I can remember in the John Ball House there was a big dining room and a great big round table, and there were my father and each of his sisters and their families. In the end there were twelve grandchildren, but I don’t think we all sat around one table by that time. But it was just routine for everybody to go there for Sunday dinner. After a while my grandfather thought that—my grandmother, I should say--thought that that house was too big. There was too much work to be done in it, and I guess she, just to get away from Sunday dinners, anyways they sold the house without telling anybody. Oh my goodness, I can’t tell you how disappointed the family was because they loved that place. I can remember playing in the backyard. There was a big field back there then, between Gay Street and College. There was a cow in the field, and young Jo Brewer and I used to play house back �7 there; we’d cook and---. One of the games we played, all of us then, was an exchange of cigar bands. Did you ever hear of that; did you ever know that cigars had cigar bands? Interviewer: Oh, yes, I remember the cigar bands. Mrs. Judd: Oh, they were beautiful. You could get all kinds of great big gold seals on them, and everybody exchanged them. It was a great trading operation, and then you’d paste them on the bottom of a glass bowl. This was very decorative in the house. Well, anyway so they rented—no they bought a little house on Paris Avenue, about half way between Cherry and Wealthy. We were just squeezed in there; there just wasn’t room for anybody, and I guess it was worse for grandmother than having us all in the big house. So that’s when they built the house on Morris. You know that house on the corner of Morris and Logan? I guess, it’s one of the houses to be preserved in the Heritage Hill business, with the two story living room and the organ in it and the balcony over it. Here we had numerous weddings of the various cousins, and we had my grandmother’s funeral there. Grandpa used to bring professional organists who would come and stay for, say, a couple of weeks and have a series of organ concerts. This is where they had their golden wedding anniversary. Now, that was different from most golden wedding anniversary celebrations today. This was nineteen twenty-three. I think they were married in seventy-three. It was open house. They put it in the newspaper and everybody would be welcome. Of course, they had a host of friends and family, and then all the employees. They came with their families: it was really a wonderful affair. I can show you a few things I’ve put out there, one of which is a parchment that the employees gave to Grandma and Grandpa, at the time of their golden anniversary. They continued after they moved on Morris to develop houses for the family, all around them. At that time, straight through practically, on what’s now Prospect, used to be called Terrace Avenue, is where Frank Leonard lived, Grandpa’s brother, and their daughter [Evelyn Leonard] who became Mrs. Avery, and their son, Franklin. Across the street from them was one of Grandpa’s daughters [Jessie E. Leonard married Walter H. Whittier], the Whittier family. The Harvey family [Jennie M. Leonard married Frank A. Harvey] built a house I guess you designated for preservation on College Avenue between Wealthy and Logan. It’s a Spanish architecture. He had six daughters and they lived there. Then, as each of us grandchildren married, Grandpa gave us a house for a wedding present. Only three houses got built before Grandpa died, but one was on Morris. Oh, I forgot to mention that my father, my family, built kitty-cornered across from grandfather’s Morris Avenue house, on the south-east corner of Morris and Logan. That’s where I lived from the time I was fourteen. There was one of the grandchildren’s houses on Morris; one on College south of Logan; and then ours on Morris, right across the street between Logan and Wealthy. All these houses were together and the family Christmas dinners continued: and the family Thanksgiving dinners continued. There were always thirty-five or so of us for these dinners. Interviewer: Sounds like the Kennedy compound at Hyannis Port. Mrs. Judd: We weren’t the same political party, though. But, there was also a compound down at Highland Park. This isn’t Grand Rapids, but would you be interested in adding a bit about our life there? My grandparents bought a little cottage there in nineteen two. They’d been on Black Lake, but their cottage there burned down, so they bought this little cottage. Next to them was another cottage already built, so that was for the Whitter family; and then they built two more cottages on either side, for the Harvey family and for our family. The one they built for the �8 Harveys is still there, but there was a big fire in thirty-four that burned all the rest of these houses down. Next north of us was the McKee family who were also relatives. So there were five houses full of us. How the parents ever survived it, I’ll never know! But, you know, in those days you went down by interurban, which was an electric car. You went all the day down – you know that Highland Park was part of Grand Haven really, but we were just outside the city limits – and that went down the beach. There was a streetcar track, and the interurban came down to within about three hundred feet of our cottage, where there was what we called the loop. Every morning my father would get up at five o’clock, and they would catch this six o’clock ―Limited‖ they called it, that would take all the businessmen to Grand Rapids, - a two-hour trip. Every night he’d come back and we’d go down to the loop to meet our parents at seven o’clock. He did this every day because he said that the air down at Lake Michigan was something he just couldn’t miss for a single night. But when we’d go, we’d go for the season; we never dreamed of going back and forth. (End of side one) The trunks came down on the interurban and were loaded on great big trucks with big dray horses and were pulled down the beach. The men carried those trunks up maybe hundred steps and on up into our attic. The trunks didn’t come down again until the first day of school. By that time we were all packed up, and we’d put the blinds on the windows: and we moved to Grand Rapids and we never went back until the following July first. June was considered too cold a month to go down. You know? There were no roads, of course, behind those hills except farmers’ roads. The farmers would come with their vegetables and we youngsters used to go off with the farmer and see his farm. About everything had to be delivered down the beach. Even the ice for the refrigerators came down the beach. Can you imagine finding anybody today that would lug ice up those hundred steps on his back in the hot summer? The groceries came down [the beach too]. I remember one day, it was a very rough day, the boy delivering the groceries and his horse got thirsty. So he (the horse) just went out into the lake and the baskets all floated away. Another thing about our life there was the Fourth of July Celebration. My grandfather would bring down a whole trunk full of fireworks and it would be on the porch of his cottage. We could all go and help ourselves to firecrackers and…. Interviewer: Roman candles? Mrs. Judd: No, no that was at night, the adults ran those. But during the day there were all sorts of things, and once in a while a thumb nail would be blown off and somebody would have to be taken care of. Then at night the adults put on the show with the big fireworks down on the beach. That was a great family affair. Then, of course, my dad had to go to Chicago on business quite often, you know, in those days the customers of the refrigerator factory and the furniture factories, too, were the big department stores all over the country. So, we often had business in Chicago. The Goodrich boat line was running boats between Muskegon and Grand Haven and Milwaukee and Chicago. When dad would go, he’d go on the night boat and we’d all go up to Grand Haven to see him off. Then we’d come down to where the State Park is now. There was a little cement-block building that was the wireless station, which communicated with the boats without any wires. Then we’d go in and we’d send dad a message on the wireless. I suppose this was what preceded the radio. I don’t know how it really worked. �9 Now, let me see, I think I should tell you a little bit about the Carrs, because they’re not too far off from your Heritage Hill business. My grandfather married Emma Carr. They came from New Hampshire. He was a colonel in the Civil War. I had his sword, with Gettysburg and all the battles engraved on it. He went into the lumber business here, in about – well, they came West first in the fifties and grandmother was born in Illinois, and then the war came they went back to New Hampshire, because he was in the New Hampshire militia. I had his book on the practice rules for the New Hampshire militia; I sent it back to the New Hampshire museum. He built a house on the corner of Lyon and Bostwick, where it’s just been torn down for that new Junior College building that’s now about finished, I guess. It was a little New England farm house type of house; you know, in New England, often the oldest son, when he was married, or the oldest daughter would live in the same house with their parents, which was built as a sort of a double house, except for the kitchen. The kitchen would go clear across the back; it would be a common kitchen for both families. Well that’s what that house was like. I can remember, as a child, the family had long left it, but I can remember it as being really a colonial type of house. After that its architecture was ruined by being covered with shingles, with - - what is that stuff they use, it looks like shingles. Interviewer: I know what you mean, I call it funny brick. Mrs. Judd: Yes, and a little store was added to it, Perry’s Interviewer: Yes, or something. Mrs. Judd: Still, it was no longer an attractive house, but this was the house where my grandfather and Emma Carr were married and where my own father was born. My father was Harry Carr Leonard. You know, they first named him Noel Winslow Leonard, Winslow after Mariah, the stepmother and Noel, because he was born on Christmas. For the first two years, they called the little baby Winnie, and finally Mariah said, ―Emma, you cannot bring up a boy called Winnie, you have to change his name.‖ So, they changed it to Harry Carr Leonard. When he went to get a passport, he wasn’t registered anywhere in the state at all. Let me see, my father went to Purdue University because Grandma and Grandpa thought the University of Michigan was too tough a place to send their sixteen year old boy. Interviewer: He was sixteen when he went to college? Mrs. Judd: He was sixteen because, apparently, it wasn’t necessary to go four years to high school; he could get into the university with three years. But, my grandmother was very worried about her little boy, so she took him down to Lafayette, Indiana, and took him to the Baptist minister’s family and asked them to take care of him. The daughter of the family was my mother, and she went to Purdue University. She was one of fifty coeds in a school of about a thousand boys. Needless to say, she had a wonderful time. But when they were married, of course, they came back to Grand Rapids, because my father went into the refrigerator factory. I want to say a word about my mother, if I may; because she was I suppose one of the most loved women in all of Grand Rapids. She was very active in community affairs. She was a charter member of the Women’s University Club, which later became a branch of the American Association of University Women. She was always busy with the Visiting Nurses, which became Community Nursing. I think it’s called now. She was one of three that helped organize the first union of all �10 the social agencies for a single budget job, what we now call the United Fund, and used to be called Community… Interviewer: Community Chest? Mrs. Judd: Community Chest. But, when they started, it Ben Merrick was one of the three and I’ve forgotten the third. This was during the World War when it was so necessary to be more efficient about raising money for these needs. Ben Merrick and Mother called it the Welfare Union at that time. That was a very difficult job. I can remember Mother oh, being so depressed over the controversies and conflicts and jealousies among all the different agencies; each leader wanted their own, you know. Interviewer: I don’t think it’s much different today really. Mrs. Judd: No, well, it was quite an achievement and then, of course, she was very active in Fountain Street church, as all of the family were. I think it’s the sixth or seventh generation now in the Fountain Street Church. The Leonards were always extremely active in it. My Uncle Frank Leonard, Mrs. [Noyes] Avery’s father, was chairman of the Board of Trustees for, oh I don’t know about twenty years or more. When he died my grandfather succeeded him. So, there was a period of forty or fifty years when these men took the leadership in the church; and of course mother was a great supporter of Dad when he was doing that. I can remember in the old church, you know, that burned down in nineteen sixteen or seventeen, the same corner where the church is now – every Thanksgiving, the night before Thanksgiving, we had a big church dinner. I don’t know how the women ever got through. They did all the cooking, the members of the church; we didn’t have any professional cooks in those days. They cooked that great big dinner on Wednesday and had their own family dinners on Thursday. My father always carved all the turkeys for the gang, and his way of carving turkey was neat, and he became quite famous for this. Dad ran down after the furniture factory was sold and went into the public life and became a member of the city commission, you know, he was on it for eight years, and there was a lot of controversy. Let me see, I should tell you something about me? I was born on John Street; that was in a house that my grandfather bought for my father and his wife when they were married. That’s where I was born. Of course, nobody was born in a hospital in those days; they were always born at home. That house has just been torn down in the past year or two. There were twin houses, and there was just a driveway between us and the one to the east of us bordered on the Immen House, which has recently been bought by those architects, up there on the corner: that big white house on the corner of Lafayette and John. The house to the south of us, when I was young, was occupied part of the time by the Charles Garfield family; you know the man who gave his farm for the Garfield park. He was one of Grand Rapids finest man. I don’t know of any leader in the history of Grand Rapids that I can think of who was a finer man than that. His wife was the maid of honor in Grandma and Grandpa’s wedding. John Street was a great place for coasting. You could go up to the top of the hill and, of course, there was very little traffic and you could coast down the hill and cross Barclay Street, down thru an alley next to the St. Cecilia until you got to, what is that street called? Interviewer: Ransom? �11 Mrs. Judd: Let me see. Yes, Ransom. Near the park. Interviewer: That’s quite a ride. Mrs. Judd: That’s quite a ride, yes. One of the stories my mother used to tell was how on my way up to Fountain Street School, I would draw my little sister up on a sled up to the top of the hill and then just give her a shove, and I’d go on to school. She was really rather small to make that trip all by herself. Then, of course, the groceries were delivered in the wintertime in sleighs, because there was always snow on the streets. So, one of our fun things to do was to stand on the sleds of the grocery sleigh, and go all over town with the grocery boy. If you can imagine letting a youngster of that age do it now! I was sent down to the grocery store often by myself when I was four and five years old. It was located where Rood’s China Store is now. I had to cross Fulton street and Jefferson. There were no lights; there were no automobiles; it was a very safe thing to do. We had a big garden back of us and we had three great big apple trees. We always picked the apples and spread them out on the floor in the attic, put newspapers over them, and then we had apples all winter long. We had, in the basement, big potato bins; we’d buy our potatoes in season and use them all winter there. Then we had tremendous big closets in the basement for canned goods and, of course, there was a big job in the fall doing all the canning. The furnace was a coal burning furnace, and I can remember my father getting up in his white night shirt at five o’clock on an icy morning, going downstairs and starting the fire to keep the rest of us warm. We had gas lights, and the mantles. You know what a mantle is? A gas mantle? They were always burning out or breaking – making trouble. I went to the Fountain Street School. This was the building that my father had gone to school in. I can remember once a boy threw a snowball at the wall and you could see the crack from the inside. It was getting that old. That was where the Central High School is now. We had a great big playground – they owned as much land as they do now for Central – and it was all in tall grass and big trees. We played games around the stumps. At the back of the lot there was an old rickety barn, where there were horses, and we’d feed the horses, for fun, during our recess. Then, finally, the Board of Education decided to build a high school there. I was in the fifth grade then. The first thing they did was to build a gymnasium. That was the end of our playground. Then they put the elementary school into the gymnasium and built the classrooms there. So, I had my sixth grade in the gym. For the seventh and eighth grade we went to Central Grammar, which was the old high school, older than the one they’re about to tear down now, which I guess you mostly remember as Strong Junior High. Interviewer: Which building would that be, the one on Barclay? Between Barclay and Ransom? Mrs. Judd: It was on, well this is Central Grammar I’m talking about was on the corner of Barclay and Lyon. It’s vacant land now. Interviewer: Oh, just adjacent to what is the East Building of J.C. Mrs. Judd: That’s right, there was no East building then. It was the old High School. Preliminary to that building was the Stone Building, that’s where my grandmother and grandfather went to high school back in the eighties. This Central Grammar was also a very old building. The principal was Mrs. Goss. I guess I should mention the fact that when school started, or when school was out, the pupils all lined up from their room to march downstairs and out; and in the �12 morning nobody could come into the building until they all lined up and marched into the building. Mrs. Goss would not let us march in rhythm because she said if we got too much rhythm going the building would fall down. I was in the first class to enter the new Central High School as a freshman in nineteen twelve. My grandfather Leonard was a member of the Board of Education; you’ll find his name up there on the plaque, when the building was built. That was a wonderful experience, that high school experience. We had marvelous teachers in those days. They went on, most of them, to become teachers in the Junior College. We had a lunchroom, and we had all our parties in the lunchroom. Of course, the floor was very rough. When a club had a party there, they’d go up Saturday morning and put cornmeal all over the floor and slide all morning long to get the floor so it was good enough to dance on. By this time I was living down on Logan and Morris. There were the most whole lot of wonderful young people who lived up and down Madison. We called it the Madison Avenue crowd. The first one lived near Franklin Street, and then we always walked to school; of course nobody ever dreamed of having to be driven to school. We’d gradually pick up one person after another all the way up Madison until we got to about Washington. And that was the Madison Avenue crowd. Our parties were always in people’s homes. We didn’t have clubs to go to, we did, but it wasn’t the place for young people. Many of the homes had ballrooms, and player pianos for our music, and we had a wonderful time. At Christmas time there were engraved invitations for every single night of the Christmas vacation; come to somebody’s house for a dance. Let’s see. There was a house I wanted to mention next to Central High School. I think of all the houses you people are preserving, this one would have been the most wonderful one to have had. It belonged to the Baars. It was set back in a great big yard with lots of trees. It was a little frame Gothic house with all the lace and pointed roofs. It was really darling place. It’s too bad that it disappeared. Interviewer: I wonder if I could ask you a question right now. You mentioned that your husband lived on the West side of Grand Rapids, and you lived on the East side of Grand Rapids, and your family, obviously, a very substantial family. How did you and your husband meet? Mrs. Judd: Union High school was only three year high school and all of their students had to come to Central for their senior year. Now you must know that some of Grand Rapids most prominent families lived on the West side in those days, the Tuttles, and the Baldwins. Oh, Siegel can tell you a large number of them. When he was a senior his family moved over here to be closer to the school, and that’s where I met him – was in high school. He went to Dartmouth and I went to Vassar; and then he went on to the First World War. He was in Dartmouth in the war, and he enlisted in the Navy and went on to Annapolis and got his commission in the regular Navy from Annapolis training, then came back here and went to law school. In those days, nobody married until they were able to support a wife, and so I had to wait about two years for him to finish law school and get a job before he would marry. This was pretty tough. I finally got a job myself. I taught at Central High. Oh, I wanted to mention this thing about Central High School, too. I taught there for four years, from nineteen twenty-one to twenty-five. During that time, of course, when I was in high school they played football out here at Ramona. But during that time that I taught, the board bought Houseman Field. It was very wet, and there was no money to drain it, so the students decided to do it. The boys were organized, of course they had the engineering guidance, but they were organized to dig the trenches back and forth across the field and lay the tile, and fill it in. this was all done in one Saturday. The girls organized to get the lunch and bring it and serve it. I organized the girls for this so every time I drive by Houseman Field, I have a sense of pride about Houseman Field. There was something else about �13 high school. Ramona meant a great deal to us. It’s not in your Heritage Hill district, but it was a great amusement park. The route out there was through the woods. You see, it was way out of town. It belonged to the streetcar company; of course, we helped them make that business. They had summer cars that didn’t have any walls on the sides and the seats went clear across and the conductor collected the fares (of course they had both the motor man and the conductor) by walking along that step along the edge it. On a hot summer day, before we had the cottage, mother would take us and we’d get on that streetcar, and we’d ride out to Ramona. Then we’d stay on it and it would go back downtown and ride out to North Park. We would get some ice cream there and then come home; that was our summer outing. The outdoor theatre at Ramona had the best Keith Vaudeville that there was in the country. It was just a dandy place to go for the summer evenings. Then there was the O-Wash-Ta-Nong Club. Did you ever hear of that? Oh, that was a beautiful clubhouse, built right over the edge of the water. It was a three-storied building with a beautiful ballroom that looked out over the water, and a balcony, and underneath it were the canoes. You could go there and have a canoe ride or you could have a beautiful dance. During the war I can remember many dances out there for the boys in uniform. It was a lovely place, it burned down. Mr. Hanchett – did you ever hear of the Philipine band? Mr. Hanchett was the head of the streetcar company. His house is one of your houses for preservation, on College, the red stone house just north of Cherry Street. Interviewer: Right next to the Voigt house, isn’t it? Mrs. Judd: Yes, just to the south of the Voigt house. He brought a Filipino band to Grand Rapids and it stayed about a year, I think. He would put them on his streetcar that would go out to Ramona. They would be playing out there, you see. This attracted a great deal of business to Ramona. Then later the Hanchetts moved and bought the house where the Bissells live now, across from the hospital on the corner of Wealthy and Plymouth. They built a big ballroom on the back of it, and there were many dances there with the Filipino Band. We had a very happy life as young people. We used to have to have chaperones in the automobiles that drove us to the party, but I don’t think that really hampered us very much. Interviewer: I’d like to ask you a question right now; it’s a question I asked everybody that grew up during that period of time. What do you think Mrs. Judd, thinking back, what was it that ended that era? Mrs. Judd: Oh, I think the automobile more than anything else. In the first place, it ruined the streetcar business, and the interurban business. My father was on the city commission and the one who insisted that the streetcar tracks be removed from Monroe Street and the street be repaved clear across so it would be good pavement. Many cities simply paved on either side and left the streetcar tracks. Now, that was nineteen thirty -(?) it was during the depression, I guess it was one way of giving more employment-thirty-four or thirty-five along on there. Interviewer: You’d say it was the automobile more than anything. Mrs. Judd: Oh, I think so. It made life go faster, it made people get off their feet and sit on their fannies, [and] this I think, prevented lot of camaraderie that we used to have as a group when we went back and forth to school, to say nothing of what it did to our physiques. Well, I suppose the movies really destroyed the amusement park, although it wore out. The roller coaster was going �14 to kill somebody if they didn’t take it down. Maybe people just got too sophisticated for that kind of amusement. It did kill the vaudeville circuit. The first movie I ever went to was on Monroe Street, just about where Goebel and Brown’s store is now. It was called the Monroe Vaudette. It was five cents and there was an organ; and that’s where I saw Mary Pickford and Charlie Chaplin, but never with my mother’s permission. Oh, she didn’t believe in it; I had to sneak in and not tell her. But Grand Rapids was a city that had the best Broadway theatre in those days. I saw all the leading Shakespearean actors. All the operettas came. You talk to Siegel about operetta; he was crazy about operetta and music, of course. He used to go to all of them and sit in the top gallery, which they called then something I won’t mention. Maude Adams, Billie Burke, all the people right off the Broadway companies stopped here. Now, the reason, I think, was the furniture industry and the markets. I’m going to leave that for Siegel to tell you because he can make a very interesting story about it. Interviewer: Well, I think we’ve covered everything that I wanted to cover, and you certainly were well prepared. Mrs. Judd: Well, I tell you, I’ve been in the process of trying to write a story about my grandfather, for the family. There’s a lot of research necessary, the kind of research I wish you people had done on the Heritage House houses. I know where the buildings were that my grandfather built, so to find out when they were built and what became of them afterwards, I started out in the city hall in the Assessor’s office, where you have to look up things by address. I got the history of assessment of that particular property; you can sometimes tell by the, say, quick jump in the assessment that’s there’s been a new building or something put there. Then, to find out who the owners were, you take the numbers off the assessment that each property has and then you go over to Michigan Trust Building, where the abstract company is. With that number they will give you the abstract from the beginning. The first properties that my grandfather built on were in the village of Grand Rapids – or village of Kent, I’ve forgotten, I mean it dates back that far – and then you can pursue the ownership of that piece of property that way. I don’t know whether you know I was on that little committee that went over all the history of the houses to determine which ones were historically worth preserving. I noticed that one was listed as the Wagemaker house on Lyon Street. Now, that really is the Idema house. If you want the history of that house, you could go to Chester Idema or Walter Idema. Interviewer: He’s one of the fellows that I’m going to be interviewing next week. Mrs. Judd: Is he? Well, you get him. I asked him about it quite recently because I was perturbed that the name of it was Wagemaker, when really the Idemas, you know were the heads of the bank and one of the biggest families. Their house on the corner of College and Washington, north of the Voigts, was the later house. But that’s something that really ought to go in your Heritage Hill area. Interviewer: OK. �15 INDEX A Avery, Mrs. Noyes · 6, 8, 11 B Baldwin Family · 13 Bedeaux, Charles · 6, 7 Bedeaux, Fern Lombard · 6 C Central Grammar School · 12, 13 Central High School · 12, 13, 14 Community Chest · 11 D Dartmouth · 13 F Fountain Street Church · 5, 11 Frigidaire · 3, 4 G Goss, Mrs. · 13 H H. Leonard and Sons · 5, 6 Hanchett, Mr. · 14 Harvey Family · 8 Leonard, Emma Carr (Grandmother) · 7, 8, 9, 10, 13 Leonard, Harry Carr (Father) · 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 Leonard, Heman (Great-Grandfather) · 4, 5 Leonard, Mariah Winslow · 4 Leonard, Willie Thomas Stansbury (Mother) · 1, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 M Martin, John · 2 McKee Family · 8 Meade, Richard Mrs. · 2 O O-Wash-Ta-Nong Club · 14 P Purdue University · 10 R Ramona Park · 14 Reed’s Lake · 2 S Simpson, Mrs. · 7 T Tuttle Family · 13 U I University of Michigan · 10 Idema Family · 16 V J Judd, Siegel (Husband) · 1, 5, 13, 15 Vassar College · 7 Visiting Nurses · 10 K W Kelvinator · 3, 4 L Leonard, Charles H. (Grandfather) · 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 Wagemaker Family · 15, 16 Whittier Family · 8 Women’s University Club · 10 �16 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/44402fc843dc870171fd2f87949c3eee.mp3 6a77bde69b7f8311662638b93752a15a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_13Judd Title A name given to the resource Judd, Dorothy Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Judd, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Dorothy Leonard was born in 1898 in Grand Rapids. She studied economics and political science at Vassar College and had an interest in city government. Her grandfather, Charles H. Leonard, was the inventor of the refrigerator. Mrs. Judd was the keeper of her grandfather's patents. She married Siegel Judd in 1922. She died in 1989. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/627d47331523b089fb1eaaf03a9eea86.pdf 879897e64026b6864a68dd24586739b8 PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Siegel Judd Interviewed on September 28, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape # 20 & 21 (47:25) Biographical Information Siegel Judd was born Siegel Wright on 19 June 1895 in Leoti, Wichita County, Kansas, the son of Addison J. Wright. His parents died and he was adopted as an infant by his father’s sister and her husband, Lillian V. Wright and Edward C. Judd. Siegel died in Grand Rapids on 2 September 1982. Siegel was married to Dorothy S. Leonard 29 June 1922 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Dorothy was born 14 September 1898 in Grand Rapids, the daughter of Harry Carr Leonard and Willie Thomas Stansbury. Dorothy died 14 February 1989 at Porter Hills Presbyterian Village. ___________ Interviewer: This interview with Siegel Judd was conducted September 28, 1971. Interviewer: Let’s start with…about your family and so on. Were you…were you born in Grand Rapids? Mr. Judd: No, I was born out there in Leoti, Kansas about fifteen miles from the Colorado line… Western Colorado, Colorado line. And, you mean you want me to go on and tell what I just told you? Interviewer: Sure, that’s a good story. Mr. Judd: Well, my family, my ancestors came from western New York and came out when the Erie Canal was opened in eighteen thirty and came to Michigan in eighteen thirty-five, it was. And my ancestor at that time was a Continental Soldier and he’d been granted some land in Michigan that… what’s now in Alpine Township and so he came out here to farm it and he brought his seven sons and came down the Grand River on a raft. That’s the way others were coming in here at that time. You see, that wasn’t such a long time after this town was founded by Campau. I think it was in eighteen twenty-one or twenty-five, along in there. But there were many people coming from New York State. My family came out there and their names were Wright. You want me to tell that part of the story? Interviewer: If you want to. Mr. Judd: Well I don’t know as it makes a lot of difference… Interviewer: Okay. �2 Mr. Judd: That’s incidental really. But my father, who was a generation or two after the ancestor who came out here, wasn’t caring much for the farming life in Alpine Township so he and his two cousins-other Wrights-decided to go out to Kansas, [to] see what they could do out there in the way of taking up some land. And my father was in a little town-all three boys were-a little town called Leoti and my father married the school marm in the town, a very small village. And he… what should I say he was short lived out there because there was no doctor in the town and he’d taken sick and the town druggist, by mistake, gave him a dose of lignum which killed him and I was born about three months after he died and my mother died about three months after I was born and her sister was… she was the school teacher in this village and so my aunt here, a Mrs. Judd-my father’s sister, went out to Kansas and brought me back to Grand Rapids where I’ve lived all my life. And they formally adopted me and that’s why I have the name Judd instead of Wright. That’s … Interviewer: Where did you go to high school in Grand Rapids? Mr. Judd: Well, I went… we lived on the west side on Scribner Street and Tenth and I went to Turner Street School, which is still there, and Union School. At that time, Union School High School went to the tenth grade so when, when I got through the tenth grade I came over here to Central High School and then my family moved over here on the east side and I graduated from Central High School in ninteen fourteen. Then, I went with a couple of boys from… graduated at that time, we went out to Kansas to work in the wheat fields. Interviewer: Oh really? Mr. Judd: I can see where my father might not have liked that, too. But we worked all one summer and wound up in Saskatchewan, Canada, following the harvest up…know that’s a detail… but after that I went to Dartmouth to college. I was there three years when the First World War broke out and in May of nineteen seventeen everybody went to war. I mean everybody went down and enlisted. And I went to the Naval Training Station at Newport, Rhode Island and was in the Navy two, two and a half years. That was the first of the year and I don’t know if you want this detail, do you? Interviewer: That’s alright, you got out of the Navy and you went to… Mr. Judd: I got out of the Navy and I went to law school down in Ann Arbor. Then I came here and I practiced here ever since. I started in twenty-one and now it’s seventy-one – so that’s fifty years. Interviewer: You’ve specialized in corporate law. Mr. Judd: Almost entirely. Interviewer: Can you tell me about some of the early businesses in Grand Rapids-the lumber business for example and what happened to it? �3 Mr. Judd: Well, when I started practicing law in twenty-one, there were many lumber companies in Western Michigan and all north of here. And that was because there was a lot of virgin timber and they were all cutting it and, of course, selling this. And the way they marketed it they cut the timber and in the north got the…floated the logs down the Muskegon River and the Pere Marquette and the Grand River and that was the easiest way of transporting them. There wasn’t any railroads at that time. And then at the mouth of the rivers, sawmills sprung up and they’d saw the logs up into lumber and then, with the Great Lakes here, they could ship at very low cost this lumber all, like Chicago, Detroit, all around at much less cost than the railroads that were then coming in. And here in Grand Rapids, there were some sawmills but there were bigger ones at Spring Lake and also what is now Port Sheldon, there was a big, big mill there and a hotel. You wouldn’t think so now down there but there was and, as a matter of fact, after the town died because they ran out of raw materials to cut with and those towns just died out. But the pillars that you have on the Art Museum here were on one of the hotels at Port Sheldon. Interviewer: Is that right? Mr. Judd: That was supposed to be classical Greek hotel and architecture those were saved and brought up here. If you’re interested in that kind of detail it’s… Interviewer: How did these guys like Blodgett and some of the other families that made tremendous fortunes out of the lumber industry-how did they get the concessions to the land? Mr. Judd: They got ‘em from the government. It was easy to get them because the government wanted to develop the country and Grand Rapids-well the Blodgetts, for example, started way back in the seventies. Delos [Abiel] Blodgett came out here from Massachusetts, I think. And it’s been three generations of ‘em. Of course, now they haven’t any timber in Michigan to cut and, of course, the White-Friant Company was the big company. There were a lot of ‘em. Interviewer: Was that a local company? Mr. Judd: Yes, as a matter Friant’s house is that stone house up on the Northeast corner of Union and Cherry and one of our boys in here bought it-John Logie. Interviewer: Oh yes.. Mr. Judd: Of course, the Whites built that beautiful home up next to-well it’s part of Davenport School now-on the northeast corner of Prospect and Fulton. Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Judd: First, as the new office building was built in there and the next building east is the old White home. And, oh, there were a lot of lesser fortunes but those-the Whites were the big ones and, of course, the Blodgetts particularly. And the Blodgetts stayed in the timber business after it all cut off here and went out to California and now disposed of all their timber business. When they, just ‘til a few years ago, they had large holdings out in California, Northern California. �4 Interviewer: Well, are there any Whites and Friants still left in Grand Rapids? Mr. Judd: There’s only one White and there are no Friants that I know of but White, the founder of the business-the father-he had five sons and one of them is still here. And that’s Norton Rugee White who lives, I think, on Plymouth. He’s about the only one. Their mother was the cook in the lumber camp and she was a very energetic woman and when they made money, she moved the family to Grand Rapids and saw to it…are you interested in these details? Interviewer: Yes Mr. Judd: Mrs. White saw to it that her five sons were well educated. And the oldest one [Stewart Edward White] turned out to be a writer of quite some standing. He wrote novels, a lot of ‘em about the timber game-you can credit a lot of the history about the timber business…the lumber business from some of his books. He was a very popular writer. He had his stories in the Saturday Evening Post at the time when that was flourishing very much. He wrote a book called The Riverman. That was a pretty good book. I don’t know these details you care about but when you add that up you can cut these things out. But the second one was [Thomas Gilbert White]…she took him… he went to Paris and studied there at one of the art schools and he turned out to be quite a famous painter and was a great racketeer. And then she had a third son who she wanted to be a musician and she took him to Saint Petersburg, Russia, and he studied with Leopold Auer who was the great teacher of the violin at that time. He didn’t make the success, though, that the other two did. And then there were two more boys and Rugee is one of them. And then the other one, Vici, who was somewhat of a writer, too. But that was quite a family here at that time. None live here except Rugee. In fact, I think they’re all dead. Interviewer: Where did the Friant family go? Mr. Judd: I don’t know about the Friants too much. But they were partners in the White-Friant Lumber Company. Many of these lumbermen who lived here in Grand Rapids used to go out to California in the winter time. They had homes out there, Santa Barbara particularly. The Whites had it; I think the Friants did. Interviewer: Why did they choose California rather than Florida? Mr. Judd: Well, Florida wasn’t developed at that time. Florida really didn’t get started in any big way until the twenties. I went down there in nineteen twenty-three with…I don’t know whether you knew Harold Fletcher, the real estate man here or not… wanted to buy some land. And Harry Goodspeed who owned the real estate around-you’d be surprised how undeveloped that was at that time. The shore-beautiful shore-and quite a lot of cottages like there’d be along Lake Michigan. None of this large stuff but the jungle was right behind it. So that was late, but they went out to California because of the climate and it was a very fashionable thing to do. Interviewer: Well, when did the lumbering business here die? The lumbering business, did that had an effect on the development on the furniture industry here? �5 Mr. Judd: Oh sure. It furnished the raw material for the furniture factory and that’s why they started here. And I mentioned this water power being one natural resource-the lumber was another. Those two combined were the reason they had furniture companies start up here. Interviewer: Water power… could you review that a little bit? Mr. Judd: Well, the Grand River-called the Grand Rapids-meant there was a fall in the stream. There were rapids and those were up north of here. They manufactured, built power damsyou’ve seen how they work. There was a channel on each side of the river and the dams would shunt the water into those channels. The channels would go through wheels, you see, that would turn around and turn the machinery. And they also had on both sides of the rivers… they just recently wound up the last one and that’s with the Voigt Milling Company-they had a milling flour mill over on what was then Bridge Street but now is Michigan over on the west side and another one down here at Pearl Street. The mills have been taken down now but…so you see the water power was good to grind the wheat into flour, too. And so we had up here the Lilly White Flour Mill. I don’t know whether you ever heard of that and then there was the Voigt Milling Company, and Blue Ribbon or something of that sort. But that was the power, too, and now when the power was giving out, I mean when there was less water in the Grand River, there was less water because they cut away the trees. When they cut away the trees, you let the water all run off in the spring when the snow melts and it goes off in a hurry and then the rest of the time you haven’t got this full head of water like you do when the woods are there and it melts and gradually runs off. So that’s how it gradually gave out and so the furniture companies that had been built along there got into steam plants and burned coal and generated power by that method. Water power passed practically out of existence. And where the Rowe Hotel is down there was the end of the-no it wasn’t either-it was down on Pearl Street. I was going to say the canal but these furniture factories were built right over the canals. They’d have these wheels that the waters passed by would turn. Interviewer: Well, in other words… Mr. Judd: Just the regular fashion that they did in old days. Everywhere, you got water. Interviewer: In other words, all along the canal where the canal began to where it ended… Mr. Judd: That’s right. Interviewer: …there were furniture businesses built along the river? Mr. Judd: That’s right-and these flour mills too. Interviewer:: Yes. Were they… ? Mr. Judd: …but mainly for furniture. Interviewer: Were those on both the east and the west side of the river? �6 Mr. Judd: Well, the flour mills-yes-the Lilly White was right where the post office is now and the Voigt Mill had two. They had one up across the bridge and in those days it was a covered wooden bridge with a covered roof, you know, like you used to see in New Hampshire and up there. Interviewer: When did those furniture factories come down-the ones that were right along the river here? Mr. Judd: When did they start? Interviewer: No, when were they torn down? Mr. Judd: Well, they kind of died off during the depression in the thirties. The factors that caused it was the loss of water power and it was more expensive then to generate power by steam and the natural resources cut off. I mean most of it had been harvested up north. And then, thirdly, is the invasion, you might say, of the automobile business where they would pay higher wages than was paid in the furniture business. And the furniture business up until just fairly recently has been a lower wage paying business. And so the boys in the next generation-their fathers went into the automobile game or businesses that made parts for automobiles-and that still goes. Lot of… Interviewer: Lot of automotive-related industry in Grand Rapids? Mr. Judd: Oh yes, oh yes, sure-and there’s any number of parts people around. Even the Keeler Brass Company, a very successful brass company, they make metal parts for automobiles-do a lot of business with Ford-not just…they started up to make brass fittings to go on the furniturelike drawer pulls… Interviewer: Oh yes. Mr. Judd: …that sort of thing. And they did a fine job of this. In fact, they went and manufactured for other furniture centers, too. There, you see, were not any furniture factories in the south that amounted to anything and this was the town that made the quality furniture the furniture business-and still is but there’s very little of it left. Interviewer: Now, why did the furniture companies move south-a lot of these companies? Mr. Judd: Well, they got lower labor rates, you see. Interviewer: Oh. Mr. Judd: In North Carolina, they were near a source of supply. There is lumber down there but not many of the hard woods we had up here and they didn’t have the competition for labor that the automobile industry gave to the furniture industry. And that’s about it Interviewer: Yes. �7 Mr. Judd: Also, the furniture industry was hard hit by the depression of the thirties and a lot of my law business at that time was helping furniture people to get cash to get money to keep going. And, you see, their sales dropped off in the depression. People didn’t have the money to buy furniture and then when they thought…saw a chance to start up…why, they needed money and I don’t know about telling you about myself but we did the log business, too, so I got learned about the RFC which is a Reconstruction Finance Corporation in Washington that Hoover started before Roosevelt was elected, for the purpose of making loans to industry and commercial companies. See, everybody needed money in the depression. And so I went down to Washington and got a charter to form one for Michigan. And this was a corporation down there that made these loans, like the government loans people today, but the method then was through corporations that they could control. So I got a charter and got a couple of bankers here who were unemployed because of the bank holiday to look after it and we made loans to any number of companies that suffered during the thirties or when the banks closed. Not just around Grand Rapids but all around here. Greenville, over there the Gibson Furniture Company, furniture companies down in Holland and many of the furniture companies here-the Luce Furniture Company, you remember that one? It was a large one down on Godfrey Avenue. And Berkey and Gay but they never…-we got all our money back for the government by about the time the war started but they were all financially weak and we got money for them with this company and of course it made law business, too. Had to run down to Washington with all these loans and get ‘em approved down there. There was a lot tighter control in those days when the government was helping out than it seems to me that there are today when the government is making these loans. But there… that was a new thing for the government to step in and help private industry. Today, it’s expected but then it was surprising. Interviewer: Um hum. Mr. Judd: So we were…that way we got quite a few clients ‘cause they stayed with us after we kept ‘em alive. That may be beside the point but… Interviewer: It’s a… Mr. Judd: But gradually, you see, some local manufacturers went down to North Carolina because of the labor rate advantage and they got competition from people who were already down there and these people-because of the low rate or wage paying industry, why, they didn’t get people that cared to go into it. They wanted to go into higher [paying] work for General Motors or work for Chrysler or somebody with…or some companies that are furnishing products to them. Interviewer: What were-besides the furniture industry-what were some of the other businesses here that were thriving, perhaps, around the turn of the century up until… Mr. Judd: Well, there was… there were a number of wholesale houses we called ‘em. That is they’d be like, well, there’s not really any left today but there were companies that would buy quantities of household things and household products and also products needed in business in connection with the lumbering up north and so forth. Grand Rapids in that period was quite a �8 distributing point of merchandise of that kind. And these companies, well, there was the Worden Grocery Company. They would buy large quantities of groceries and sell ‘em to the little grocers on the street corners and they would step in between the manufacturers of the food products and the small grocers. There were no chain stores then, you see. There was no Kroger or people like that around. There’s just these little grocery stores in the neighborhoods. Do you remember that or don’t you go back that far? Interviewer: No, I don’t go back that far. Mr. Judd: Oh, sure. Your mother would tell you here’s a dimem go down to the grocery store on the corner and get two loaves of bread or something like that. We were always running to stores like that and that was small business. But these wholesale houses would buy large quantities and they would ship farther north. We worked sort of the beginning of the north and of course there was a demand for food and household products ‘cause the people were building houses north and these lumber camps were big buyers, you see, or customers. Dorothy’s father or grandfather, Mr. Leonard, he used to travel up to the… he told me he’d travel up to the lumber camps north of here and sell ‘em lamp chimneys and oil lamps and all sorts of things like that, kitchenware… Interviewer: How many men would be in a camp like that up north? Mr. Judd: I don’t know, but they were pretty large and they were a pretty rough and tough customers, too. They’d be up there in the woods, get down here Saturday night and it used to be a big night in Grand Rapids and they used to see some pretty rough times in those days. Interviewer: Do you remember any of that? Mr. Judd: Yes, some, when I lived on the west side. Of course we had a lot of saloons. There wasn’t much. Well, there was whiskey drunk, too, but there were a lot of saloons. Down here on this corner of Michigan and Monroe there were a saloons on each corner except this near corner and that was a drug store. But that was the same thing as a saloon really in those days, too. And it was, well …the hotels did a big bar business. Everybody…Morton and Sweets Hotel which is what later became Pantlind Hotel… When the boys came in from the north, stay a week or so. Why, there was a lot going on. Man: What, when you were…you grew up on the west side predominantly…? Mr. Judd: Yes. Man: When you came over to the east side to… Mr. Judd: Central… Interviewer: Central High School, that was in the tenth grade? Mr. Judd: Yes, I went in the eleventh and twelfth grades �9 Interviewer: Was the east side considered like that-where Central School is up on the hill and the homes in the Hill District was. Was that considered very fashionable? Mr. Judd: Oh yes. Interviewer: Was there… Mr. Judd: Yes, they used to call it-some used to call it-Quality Hill... that was, some of the residents. I remember Mr. Booth, Ted Booth’s father, who lives on Fountain Street there and his pictures of his house was in the paper the other day. Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Judd: …beautiful house. I think Mr. Shelby built it. Remember Mr. Booth used to always refer to it as Quality Hill. And his son, Ted, was in high school when I was and that’s how I happened to hear his father say that because we got around his house once in a while. He was a very fine man but that was the attitude and it was entirely justified. That whole area out there was beautiful. Now that Stickley House-I haven’t heard that mentioned much but that’s the house on Prospect between Fountain and Fulton. It’s one of the high…of these large white pillars and yellow brick. Now, Stickley was a furniture manufacturer, too, and he had a big business and he built that beautiful home but his business didn’t survive the depression of the thirties. It wasn’t one of the companies that we found a loan for but he had a hard time and just went out of business. And it was by that time, see, the late thirties,. they were beginning to feel the competition of North Carolina so they and those boys weren’t as young as they had been and their sons didn’t care about the business but there wasn’t the incentive either to keep it going. Interviewer: Did that happen very often where businesses were started by… Mr. Judd: Oh yes, they were family institutions. Families from generation to generation handed ‘em down but they say in the thirties a furniture business wasn’t attractive to the young men with ambition. I don’t know as I ought to say that, what else, there were other things that offered more reward, I think. And they felt that way now you see. Or the families sort of died out or the Widdicombes, their younger generation, went East to school. One of them went to London and they got away from here. And there was the Gunn Furniture Company-they made showcases and library cases. Still, you can see that up near the so-called junction on Ann Street. That was a flourishing business until the First World War and Mr. Gunn, the owner, who was the son of the founder, went to England to live and lived in London for quite a while and his right-hand man, Mr. Homiller, who’s a very capable manufacturer, ran the show and Mr. Gunn didn’t come back ‘til the First World War got going, came over here. He’s abroad…lived there. He’s very well. So… and his son didn’t have any interest in it and so that was sold and then there’s this Kent Furniture, Imperial Furniture Company up near Ann Street-the red brick one. The Foote family built that and they did a big business. But, it’s the Depression-hurt all those and they really never got going again for one reason or another… �10 Interviewer: Well, was there any … one thing I don’t want to forget is you said before that your mother would give you a dime and tell you to run down to the corner grocery store and there weren’t any chain stores at the time. Mr. Judd: Oh no, there weren’t. Interviewer: At that time were there more a neighborhood shopping areas than there are today? Mr. Judd: Oh yes, well, you see, yes in every… well I’ll take where I lived. There was a drug store-or not a drug store-well, on Sixth Street was quite a little center-commercial center-with a drug store on Sixth Street and Broadway. And there was a meat market and a grocery store on Sixth Street and Scribner and up at Eighth Street which was... . I think it was another grocery store and Leonard Street was quite a busy street on the West Side up there. There was, oh, meat markets and grocery stores and some little dry good places and cobblers who… that sort of thing. Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Judd: And then Bridge Street, of course, here was… that’s Michigan…that was a busy street on the west side. That was commercial all the way out, but, yes, it…over where I lived at Eleventh Street, which is one block up Broadway, there was a grocery store-a lot of little stores like that. But they… the twenties and the, well, really the thirties-places kind of went out of business because they couldn’t compete with these larger concerns. Interviewer: Were there well-to-do families living on the west side? Mr. Judd: Oh yes. There were these German families that I mentioned… all did well. And they had nice homes. And, let’s see, Scribner Street was quite a street but as far as fine homes are concerned, near us there was a very fine home just south of Tenth Street on Scribner. We lived on the corner of Tenth and Scribner. Built by a man named Chick and he was representative of a man in Boston, an investor who had sent Chick out here to look after his interest in the plaster mines, you know. That was developing… going pretty well. It still is going. It belongs to U.S. Gypsum but [James W.] Converse spent…invested quite a lot of money out in Michigan and that man, Chick, had a beautiful home and saddle horses and all that. That was on Scribner Street. Doesn’t look like much now. Then right behind it on Turner Street, I keep thinking that a family was Alt but it wasn’t, but they had a beautiful home and, at that day, an oval glass plate. Oval front door was the thing and a large oval glass there and, of course, curtains behind it-but they were nice homes. Not like on the hill here but, as a matter of fact, originally Front Street over here started to be a good residential street in the early day of Grand Rapids-up at First Street and Second Street and along in there. They used to be, when I was a kid, some lovely homes there-and there were post Civil War homes. And some of them were a lot of sandstone homes that were very attractive homes. But when industry got going strong, why, they moved out. Interviewer: Was that the reason why the west side… Mr. Judd: Kind of lost out as far as keeping with…wasn’t a quality hill but it was quality people though. Some, lot of them at that time, lived over there but moved over… �11 Interviewer: Why did, why did these German families that were doing well in the machinery work, for example, why did they continue to live on the west side? Mr. Judd: Well, they did. Although later they moved over here but they…it was near their factories and those days you didn’t have an automobile, you know. You walked to work and… Interviewer: Well, when you came to school on the east side, was there any kind of social discrimination against… Mr. Judd: No, it was alright. There wasn’t anything of the sort. In fact, all the kids from Union came over here to finish up their last two years. And it wasn’t long that way but when they got that in then they built a larger school and… or built for more kids anyway. And then, also, they increased Union’s so you could stay there and graduate from Union. The building you see there now was being built when I moved over on the east side. I mean, the large red brick building, of course, now today it’s way out on the hill I guess, isn’t it? Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Judd: …on the west side. Interviewer: When you moved to the east side, was that after you were married? Mr. Judd: Oh no, it was when I was just came to the tenth, eleventh grade over here… my family moved over at the same time and we lived down on Waverly Place. The house is gone now but the Waverly Place is a little street one block up from Jefferson Avenue off State Street. It just runs one block. It’s an awful dump down in there now. But at that time, the White family-you know how Washington Street comes down to Jefferson and State comes in and makes a point there-at that time, the White Family had a very beautiful home of their own in that triangle. They hadn’t moved up on Quality Hill yet but they were very wealthy people. Interviewer: Why… Mr. Judd: That’s why I knew some of the boys because we were living on Waverly and the White family were all brought up on that triangle down there not up on top of the hill where I told you that house is now. That’s kind of an English-type house. Interviewer: Well, I guess Jefferson Avenue at one time was a very fashionable… Mr. Judd: Well, it had beautiful trees and, oh yes, it was very fashionable and also Sheldon Street was, too. I’m talking about… (I’ve got a husky voice here, sorry)… up to nineteen ten, that Fulton Street across from the park was very nice before they built the Metz Building and the…what’s the name of the building, the Lorraine Building on the corner of LaGrave. Where Jacobson’s is now, was a beautiful stone house with brass railings and polished up and the man that lived there was a lawyer and looked like Charles Evans Hughes and his-what was his name … can’t think of it but, anyway, he-man of great dignity and he represented one of the railroads �12 that were in here then. Then he represented a trolley line, too. I foreclosed the trolley line. We wound it up when, about nineteen thirty-three or four…when they went off the streets. The trolley business was a fine business for a long time. Also in Grand Rapids makes me think this… the utility business started to develop about the turn of the century… I mean, the gas light and electric business and so forth. We had quite a number of entrepreneurs in Grand Rapids who started utility companies and did very well internationally and the Hodenpyl-Hardy people were in the Michigan Trust as officers under Mr. Withey. And power companies started here and there were three groups that did very well. There was this… these two boys from the Michigan Trustthe names were Hodenpyland Hardy-and they started and collected or started little gas companies around the small towns and they got it growing into Consumers Power and then they built the trolley lines ‘cause they generating power they could power dams. At that time, we had a lot of water and the streams, you see, and the rivers- it’s all they had. They were generating electric power again with these canals. And so they had more power than they could sell so they started these inter-urbans, too, electric inter-urbans. I don’t know whether you remember those but that was the inter-urban line from Grand Rapids to Muskegon, Grand Haven, and an electric train and they ran to Kalamazoo and all around. They started in the early nineteen hundreds and they were financed with twenty year bonds and I was not practicing law when those bonds were gotten out but had something to do with foreclosures, though, when the bonds came due. Why they… the automobiles had licked the inter-urban so that they went out business. And the bonds had… we had to foreclose them and, in other words, that industry or the inter-urbans between cities and electric cars that ran just about lasted as long as the twenty year bonds and that was all. And then when they went out of business. The Holland inter-urban, I foreclosed on that, sold all the assets, sold the rails to Broady. I don’t know whether you ever heard of Broady but he was a junk dealer, a very wealthy junk…his son and all of ‘em lived over on the east, moved over on the east side when they got some money. And… but these, these men that built up Consumers Power and they went down to New York and lived there. They’re not living now but they went down there because that was a source of the money to finance and build these things. Consumers Power was one, then there was a fellow here named…a Hollander here named [John A.] Hulswit who did the same thing. He had a traction lines and electric light companies in…out in Iowa and around in Ohio and built up a big picture and, of course, he moved to New York to finance it, too. But many of them started here and then, of course, Joe Brewer-I don’t know whether you’ve heard of him but he’s more recent. He built up a picture and companies he started with a little one, the Holland Gas Company, down here and collected, well, his best one was the Indianapolis Light and Power which is one of the fine utilities today and then he sold it all to Insull in the twenties when Samuel Insull was mopping up the universe buying all the utility companies and blew up higher than a kite in twenty-nine. But, I just saying about the history of Grand Rapids, we had people who got into new industries, developed here and elsewhere. That’s… it’s kind of unusual that a town this size would have people who built up such large companies from practically nothing in a new industry, you see. Interviewer: Do you feel that… that time has been and still is somewhat of a characteristic of Grand Rapids? Mr. Judd: There isn’t today anybody that seceded it to those people. No, because there those pictures were big enough so that their main offices were not in Grand Rapids any longer. They moved away, they moved Consumers Power down to Jackson because it was more central. It �13 was on the… then as important as the railroad line too, see we were kind of a branch off from Jackson, so there, that’s their headquarters but we’ve had people that have really built up businesses and constructive people, I think. This has been a very good town. Probably taking a hell of a lot of your time but I … Interviewer: No, that’s alright. Mr. Judd: I could dig up a lot of stuff if you wanted to. Interviewer: Oh. I have one last question for you. What do you think that…what, when you were growing up in Grand Rapids-the way the pace of life and style of life was then compared to today- what was it that changed everything? What was it that ended that era, so to speak, and brought on the era that we’re into today? Mr. Judd: Oh, well, you mean talking about the economics? Man: Yes Mr. Judd: Or the social… Interviewer: Well, the economics certainly have a lot to do with the social, I think. Mr. Judd: Of course, what’s been a great contributor, I think, is the automobile. Because when I was in high school, I’ll say, Henry Ford starting out with a low priced car. You could buy a car for around five hundred dollars. His first cars and, of course, he got this idea of having one model and nothing else in a straight line production and interchangeable parts and that sort of thing. And the early cars were custom made really...the Pierce Arrows and the great big ones around and he made it-made cars that were within the reach of really poor people .And then they got on the road and that, of course, the demand for roads and the automobile industry is, I think, practically runs the country today. It even cuts up your cities like we’re getting Plymouth Road cut up pretty soon, I’m afraid. It’s change, it’s changed the life. Of course, it’s changed the pace because people, you see, when I was a boy had horses and carriages to get around. Everybody didn’t have those but that was what they had on Quality Hill up and around and …the grocery men had it and your father had ‘em. Was he your grandfather? Interviewer: My grandfather? Mr. Judd: Grandfather, yes. I remember he was chief competition, I think, over there with a German named [Jacob] Rauschenberger. Did you ever hear of him? On Turner Street, but the pace was slow and you didn’t have the sense of urgency you’ve got today. And it was very nice and … but on the other hand, there’s a lot of good things brought with what we’ve got now, too. Sorry I have this cold, I… Interviewer: That’s alright, I think we can end right there anyway. �14 L B Blodgett Family · 3 Booth, Mr. · 9 Leonard, Mr. (Grandfather-in-law) · 8 R C Reconstruction Finance Corporation · 7 Consumers Power · 12, 13 S F Shelby, Mr. · 9 Friant Family · 4 V G Voigt Milling Company · 5 Gunn Furniture Company · 9 W K White Family · 3, 4 Widdicombe Family · 9 Withey, Mr. · 12 Worden Grocery Company · 8 Wright, Addison J. (Father) · 1, 2, 4, 9 Keeler Brass Company · 6 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/23a8cf6901908a91eae8bfc4fad527ff.mp3 ef6fcb382a950649cd37ddcd660c0910 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_20-21Judd Title A name given to the resource Judd, Siegel Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Judd, Siegel Description An account of the resource Siegel Judd was born Siegel Wright; after his parents died, his father's sister and her husband adopted him. Mr. Judd attended Dartmouth College and served in the navy during WWI. He married Dorothy Leonard in 1898. He went to law school, specializing in corporate law, and was involved in the lumber business. He died in 1982. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives