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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Korean War
Floyd (Bud) Hall

Length of Interview (43:56)

(1:10) Early Life




Floyd’s father was in the heating business.
o After working with his father for several years, Floyd went into the wholesale
milk business for 35 years and then the chemical business for 20 years
Floyd was enlisted in the Navy at age 16

(2:00) Military Life






Swimming was important skill to have in the Navy
He eventually decided to join air-sea rescue, which was part of the paratroopers
o Since all of them were volunteers, Floyd was free to return to the Navy at any
time, but didn’t because he was having fun
Paratrooper training was fun for Bud
o They started training by jumping off a four foot platform
o The next step was a 30-foot tower with a cable that prevented them from hitting
the ground
o The 250-foot towers were next. Here, they had to control their parachutes in order
to land without hurting themselves
After the jumping, training got tough
o They were required to crawl through a muddy pit while machine guns were fired
over their heads
o Training was also conducted in Florida for a time. Here, they were required to
jump into a swamp. The jumps were conducted between 1,500 and 1,000 feet
o Night jumps were also common; this was very difficult because they couldn’t see
where they were going

(9:00) Korea




Floyd arrived in Korea in 1952
He never spoke to the Korean People because he didn’t understand their language
He was positioned on a mountain near the 38th Parallel when he and his comrades ran out
of water
o They walked down the mountain until they found a small stream
o When they headed back up the mountain and came across a small village where
people were washing themselves in the stream that Floyd had drank from

�


















o Quinine tablets were used to make the water drinkable and reduce their chances of
getting sick
(12:10) Floyd was very close with the men in his unit because they lived in a tank for
weeks at a time
o In total, Floyd had a total of 55 men under his command; they were like brothers
When they returned to the United States they conducted a maneuver along the St.
Lawrence River
o Twenty-five men were killed when the truck they were in was hit by a train
o Floyd also remembers a time when his plane was on fire and he had to quickly
make sure that his men got out of the plane. A lot of them landed in the trees
below
When Floyd had six months remaining in the service, he married his first wife
o He lived in Hopkinsville, Kentucky, which was 20 miles away from Fort
Campbell (where he was stationed)
They would occasionally fly over a nearby river, where they could see mist coming from
moonshine distilleries
While Floyd was stationed at Fort Campbell the Tennessee Dam Authority was in the
process of building a dam on the river
o They warned everyone in the area where the moonshiners were to leave because
they were going to flood the area for a lake
(19:25) When they were in the tanks (Korea), Floyd stood up and leaned out of the turret
to call out targets for the four men below
o A lot of the targeting had to be done with his own eyes because they didn’t have
very good targeting systems
o Snipers also posed a problem when Floyd popped his head out of the tank
o On one occasion, Floyd fired his 50-caliber machine gun at a tree. Shortly after he
did this, a pair of pant fell from the branches. He doesn’t know if he killed the
soldier or not
o They took some small arms fire but not much else
Small planes flew above the tanks and served as spotters for them
o Although they rarely saw the targets that were being called in, they knew when
they hit something
o The Chinese artillery posed a significant problem; the rounds sounded like trucks
flying overhead
There were a total of four tanks in Floyd’s group; they narrow roads didn’t permit any
more
Floyd doesn’t recall shooting enemy soldiers because he was always at a distance
Floyd lost a lot of weight because it ration drops were difficult to pull of
o Gas for the tanks was usually dropped before food
(28:31) Out of all the places he visited while in the military, he enjoyed Alaska the most
Floyd remained in Korea until the war ended in 1953
o Those who served in the navy as well as the air force worked tirelessly to provide
the infantry with the proper support

�



Floyd only jumped from an airplane once during the war
o The jump occurred during the night and the men in Floy’s unit encountered no
resistance
Throughout his time in Korea, the air force was constantly searching for enemy infantry
o If enemy troops were located, the air force quickly moved to deal with them
o Floyd’s brother was in the air force during the Second World War and flew a lot
of missions in the South Pacific

(35:30) After Korea






After he left the military, Floyd had a scholarship to play football at Michigan State but
he turned it down because he wanted to get a job
Floyd returned to Fort Campbell later in life; he was amazed at how much it had
expanded
He went back to work so that it would be easier for him to adjust to civilian life
Serving in the military taught him to love others
Floyd advises those who wish to join the military to take it seriously so they don’t get
themselves into trouble

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                    <text>Native American Oral Histories
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project
Interview: Leroy Hall and Jason Quigno
Interviewer: Belinda Bardwell
Date: November 5, 2015
[Unknown]

…impressions, just don't even look at the camera Okay. Alright. Alright, not the
camera? Okay. Okay.

[Lin]

This is an interview with - please state your name -

[Leroy]

Leroy. Hall.

[Lin]

Hall. On November 5, 2015, for the Grand Valley State's project, Gigikinomaage-min, Defend Our History project. This is Belinda Bardwell and I'm
doing the interviewing. We are located at 1111 Godfrey Avenue at Jason
Quidno's[?] studio. And can you tell me where you were born?

[Leroy]

In Allegan, Michigan, which is I think, what, thirty, forty miles south of here.

[Lin]

How would you describe yourself or your ethnicity?

[Leroy]

What do you mean?

[Lin]

Like, are you Native American?

[Leroy]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm Native American, from Chippewa Pottawatomi.

[Lin]

Do you have family in the area?

[Leroy]

Yeah. yeah. I have, let's see, my mom, I have four sisters that live in the Grand
Rapids area here, which they've lived here all their lives. Let's see, my dad, he
lives in Traverse City area. And, let's see, I think that, yeah, I think that's about it.
Yeah, and then I think I got cousins around town here.

[Lin]

Did you grow your whole life in Grand Rapids?

[Leroy]

Uh, no. Think, let me see, a couple of years. When I was first born I lived in
Allegan. Oh, I mean when I was like a couple of months old. I went and lived with
my grandma and lived with my grandma until I was like two and then move back
with my Mom and Dad, periodically off and on, as I was growing up. I would
always end up back at my grandparents’ house. I didn't like living in town here.
So, I was always up north at their houses.

1|Page

�[Lin]

What was, why didn't you like living in Grand Rapids?

[Leroy]

I just didn't. It seems like crowded here, nothing to do. You know, I always like
wanting to be out in the woods, and doing stuff in the woods and working on the
farm and stuff.

[Leroy]

You know, that was like, there wasn't nothing really to do around town here. But
back in like the ‘70s and early ‘80s. So, I just found it more interesting to be out in
the country, you know.

[Lin]

And what country is that? Where did your grandma live?

[Leroy]

I had one grandma that lived in Merritt, which is up by Houghton Lake. And then
my other grandma lived in, or, grandma and grandpa, lived in Mount Pleasant.
So, them were the two places that I would bounce back and forth between.
'Cause like my one grandmother lived in Merritt, she lived like way out in the
woods, and there wasn't like any- That's where I worked on the dairy farm at.
And then, the grandma in Mount Pleasant, like when I'd be like wanting to hang
around with my uncles and stuff, which are like my brothers, that's where I would
go and stay for a while. So that was like from like you know like maybe about
three or four years old all the way till like eleven twelve years old, did that.

[Lin]

So please describe some of your experiences with education.

[Leroy]

Oh, um, here in town or up North?

[Lin]

Just in general.

[Leroy]

Well, in general it was it was pretty rough. Coming from a Native American
background and everybody knowing you know and if they didn't know it they
would ask and then you know and then the name calling, and all the “woo woo
woo,” and all that crap would start. You know?

[Lin]

Here, or?

[Leroy]

Here and then up North. You know, you had to deal with a lot of racism. The farm
boys up in the country, you know. You had to deal with them. So, it was pretty
tough, you know, having to deal with the racism.

[Lin]

Do you think it was better or worse in a certain area?

[Leroy]

No I think it was - I think it was kind of the same everywhere. You know, whether
it was in like Merritt or Mount Pleasant. You know in Mount Pleasant there was,
there was more Native Americans or Indians to be around, you know. So, it

2|Page

�calmed it down a little bit. Here in town it was a little rough, you know, at times.
But you know, I fit in here a little, okay I guess.
[Lin]

Was there large Native American student body here in Grand Rapids when you
went to school?

[Leroy]

Nope.

[Lin]

What schools did you go to?

[Leroy]

I went to Hall School here, up on the hill. I went to Kensington up in the Black
Hills area. That was one, see I graduated sixth grade at Kensington. and then I
went to Burton Junior High and then uh, from there let's see, I went to Lake City
High School, and a high school in Mount Pleasant.

[Lin]

So you graduated from Mount Pleasant high school?

[Leroy]

No I graduated from Brimley High School, in the U.P.

[Lin]

Did you go onto to college at all?

[Leroy]

Yeah, I took like a year of college.

[Lin]

Where at?

[Leroy]

Bay Mills Community College and I was trying to get into Lake Superior, couldn't
cut it. I went to uh, Bay de Noc Community College for a while. Um, but, didn't
graduate.

[Lin]

What was the atmosphere like in college, going to a Native-based college, in a
Native community?

[Leroy]

It was pretty cool. I fit in well. It was really supportive. Uh, you know we had a lot
of support, lot of support from the students as well as the teachers. You know,
they were really helpful.

[Lin]

Were you involved in any extracurricular activities?

[Leroy]

Ooh, yep. Well I was class president. So, I did, worked on a lot of different
committees and stuff. And did a lot of functions like fundraisings and stuff like
that. For the class or student body had a seat on the board regions for the
Chippewa County. That was about it.

[Lin]

What was the most positive experience you had in college? In all of your

3|Page

�colleges?
[Leroy]

I think the Bay Mills one. That was-- the best I think college that I attended, for
the longest. Yeah, that was pretty helpful

[Lin]

Were you able to utilize the Michigan Indian Tuition Waiver at that time?

[Leroy]

Let me see, Um, I was having some problems with my enrollment into the tribe
and, so, uh. See, I'm trying to think. I think I did, yup, because Robert Van Alstein
at the BIA had to help me with-- my paperwork was messed all up. So, he was
real helpful in getting everything all straightened around and everything, and
getting me the financial aid that I needed to go.

[Lin]

And what tribe are you enrolled with?

[Leroy]

Saginaw Chippewa.

[Lin]

Okay. Um, so moving on to your employment history. Can you tell me about
being Native in the workforce in Grand Rapids?

[Leroy]

Yeah, I-I've never really had a problem getting a job. I always had employment
and I really never had a bad experience. I don't think as far as like racism or
anything like that. Well, but I always worked in construction. So, you know. You
know, I guess I fit on the crew. So, you know. So, you know there was no racism
there or anything like that.

[Lin]

Okay, so we covered work experience. So there was no experiences of racism in
the workforce?

[Leroy]

Not that I can recall.

[Lin]

That's good. So about your family? Can you tell me a little about your parents?
Your siblings?

[Leroy]

Well, my Mom and Dad are still alive. I have four sisters that are still alive. I grew
up with my aunts and uncles more than anything. Well, actually my uncles. And
my grandpa and grandmas more than anything in my younger years. I got to
know my sister's later on. Well, periodically as a kid. But then, like growing up
and getting older, I got to know them more and more recently within the past ten
years, I've gotten to know them a little more. I moved back to Grand Rapids here.
It's been close to ten years now. Where I came back here. So, I'm getting to
know them more. And my mom as well, getting more closer to them, I guess.

[Lin]

Um, you know there is a large Native community in Grand Rapids. Is your-are

4|Page

�you involved with the native community? Do you go to function, are your family
involved?
[Leroy]

I don't really think that they are. I know when the pow wows come they talk about
going down. I don't know if they ever make it down. I know I go down there and
hang out for a minute. You know. As far as like some of the other functions I don't
think they do. I know up North, like in Peshawbestown. My kids are into it. You
know, they attend a lot of functions, and are involved with a lot of stuff like that up
there but, as far as like my mom and my sister's, they aren't. And don't--

[Lin]

Do you --Can you tell me why you don't think they are?

[Leroy]

I think they just stay to themselves, and don't participate in that stuff. I think they,
you know like-- I don't know. You know, I don't know if they just like don't, or are
that in touch with like the Native Americans. You know I mean they know a lot of
Native Americans. But I think they just stick to themselves. You know? Yeah,
that's all I can say, you know? That's all I know.

[Lin]

Do you – are you part of any sort of religious group or congregation within the
Grand Rapids area.

[Leroy]

No.

[Lin]

So, are you traditionalist? Uh, do you attend ceremonies? Are you involved at all
with any native functions or events or activities going on?

[Leroy]

No.

[Lin]

Okay. What influences has national organizations such as AIM or any other civil
rights organization play through the course of your life? Past, present, future?

[Leroy]

I like to like, read on some of that stuff. And, you know, and I do get, you know,
upset. You know, when I see and read and hear about racist stuff going on
happening to the youth. You know, our kids. You know, because I know what I
went through you know and I know that even though that I didn't really go through
– you know there were some rocky areas, here and there. But, I know that kids
and adults, some people, go through rougher stuff then I have, you know. And
still are you know with society. You know, or racists. You know, things going on,
and you know I wish something more could be done about it. You know, because
I see that stuff like Black Lives Matter, and it's like everybody matters, not only
black lives. Or, blue lives matter. You know, everybody matters. You know. Not
just that particular race. You know, I mean yeah, they had it rough. You know,
but the Native Americans had it rough too, you know? It’s just got to change.

5|Page

�[Lin]

Can you tell me about any positive experiences through the course of your
experiences in Grand Rapids that you have had within the Native community?

[Leroy]

Um, here! At Anishinaabe Studios.

[Lin]

What goes on here?

[Leroy]

We do stone carving here. And, so you know, we come here every day, and you
know me and Jason are Native American. And we connect well and that's a part
of who we are as a people. So, I think that helps me out. You know, because
otherwise I wouldn't be connecting with the Native American side of me if I was
out hanging out with my other friends. So, I do like come in here every day being
a part of this here. I can't explain what it is here. But, I know it's a lot of good. You
know, that happens here. That I like being here.

[Lin]

Can you tell me about any negative experiences through the course of your
experiences in Grand Rapids?

[Leroy]

What like school?

[Lin]

Anything stand out?

[Leroy]

I don't know. I don't know. Like when? Like recently? Or when I was younger, or
older?

[Lin]

When you were younger.

[Leroy]

When I was younger? Yeah, I remember. I think about that a lot. You know,
about when I went to Hall School. There was a little guy in class and the teacher,
he was a Hispanic guy, and he use to pick on this little guy every day. And he
would like shake him and the school had like a--Um, it was, a brick like pillars.
And then in between the pillars were wood you know, and then glass, or windows
on the top. So, it was kind of not as solid as bricks. So, this teacher would like
bang that little guy up on the wall, and shaking them windows. You know-- and I
don't know how that little guy would come to school every day but he would, you
know, knowing he was going to get picked on by the teacher every day. So, I
think about that a lot. And he was a little white guy, you know. So, it was like I
don't know if that Hispanic teacher was like reversing the role, or what! You
know? Because there was a lot of--you know--like me, and then there was like
Puerto Ricans, and Mexicans in the classroom. You know none of us got
touched. You know, but it was just this little white guy that always got picked on
in that one class. And you know. So, I always felt bad for that guy.

6|Page

�[Lin]

So, if you could summarize into one, or know you, a couple highlights about who
you are as an urban Native what would you like to the next generation?

[Leroy]

Sheesh, what was that?

[Lin]

What would you like to pass on to the next generation of Native Americans? You
mentioned that you--

[Leroy]

Yeah, I think I would, um, just like to--I don't know, maybe artwork? You know?
get in touch with your Native background and express it through artwork or
something. And education is--everybody-- you have to go to school to get
educated.

[Lin]

For sure. Would you be willing to teach your artwork and your skills to the next
generation?

[Leroy]

Woo, I don't know about that! Because I'm not a good teacher. [Laughter]

[Leroy]

I'm a do-er, I'm not a teacher.

[Lin]

Was there anything that I didn't ask you that you would like to talk about today?

[Leroy]

Hm, let me see. No, I think. I don't know if you have more questions I could think
about. I think that's about it.

[Lin]

Um, no, that's all the questions I have.

[Leroy]

Sheesh. Alright. Yeah. Is that it?

[Lin]

Yeah!

[Leroy]

Alright, cool! I wish I could've thought about more.

[Lin]

This is Belinda Bardwell, on November 5, 2015 at 1111 Godfrey and I'm
interviewing Jason Quigno for the Gi-gikinomaage-min and Defend Our History
Project through Grand Valley State University. What is your name?

[Jason]

Jason Quigno.

[Lin]

And how do you spell Quigno?

[Jason]

Q U I G N O.

[Lin]

Can you tell me about where you were born?

7|Page

�[Jason]

I was born in Alma, Michigan. And grew up--well, my Early life was in Mount
Pleasant, part of the Saginaw Chippewa Tribe. I moved to Keweenaw Bay when I
was probably about five or so. I remember going to preschool up there. Probably
younger that's where my earlier childhood was.

[Lin]

Okay. And when did you first make contact in Grand Rapids?

[Jason]

About fifteen years ago.

[Lin]

Oh, wow.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Lin]

So where did you go to school then? In Keweenaw Bay?

[Jason]

Nope. Uh, I grew up in Keewanaw bay till I was a teenager. I moved to Mount
Pleasant, went to school there, didn't finish school. Finished school. And I started
my GED in the county jail and finished in a treatment. [laughter] That's my
education.

[Lin]

So when you moved here, what did you do when you right moved here fifteen
years ago?

[Jason]

I had sobered up, actually. That's when I was in treatment up in Escanaba. And
then I moved on here. I met a woman before that. So, I moved in with her. I've
been down here ever since--Well, when I first move--When I first got here I did
stage work at Van Andel, and all the venues in town and Southern Michigan
basically.

[Lin]

What stage work?

[Jason]

Stage hand. As part of the union. Doing um--setting up for concerts, wrestling,
opera. Just all kinds of different shows. Whenever they needed audio or stage
they call us in. And then, I always did the stone sculpture. And, I would say
probably about twelve years ago, I just quit work all together and just started
carving stone and here I am. [Laughter]

[Lin]

So, in your job, here as an artist, obviously you, work with Louis. What is his
name?

[Jason]

Leroy.

[Lin]

Leroy. Do you have other people in the same area that you work with that are

8|Page

�non-Native?
[Jason]

Yeah, in this building. This whole complex. It's full of artists, which is really cool.
there's uh, clothing, and a guy makes like hand bags, all kinds of cool stuff.
Painters, sculptures, photographers, furniture makers. Even coffee roasters in
this complex. It's really cool. So, it's pretty diverse. Next door there are Cubans.
They carve stone, they carve wood. And, we share this building I'm in. So, it's
pretty good. We just kind of hang out. It's not even like working some days.
[Laughter]

[Lin]

Like today? [Jason] Yeah.

[Lin]

So, you grew up in a Native community-

[Jason]

Yeah

[Lin]

And then you live your adult life in the urban community. Can you tell me, kind of,
your experiences and how they differ from each community?

[Jason]

Yeah. My earliest memories were of Keewanaw Bay, of course. Being a small
town and it was a Native community. There were a lot of Natives. But there is a
division. Even at a young age I could tell. Like my teacher, I remember her-- I
don't remember her name. But she was prejudiced against Native Americans.
Even the kids she treated us Native kids bad in class. So, that always kind of
stuck with me. Just a lot how the white people were up there. But it went--Now
that I'm older, I know it goes both ways. Once people get caught in that-- it
seems to happen in small towns a lot where there is a Native community. You
know they get on their two sides and it just doesn't stop, you know?

[Lin]

So do you find it to be easier to be Native in Grand Rapids?

[Jason]

I did. When I--and uh, Mount Pleasant--I grew up there in my teenage years. And
that was it was kinda of the same, but not as severe. The most severe was when
I was in Keewanaw Bay. Honestly, I don't remember much of my teenage years it
was a while back. [Laughter] But, uh, down here, I remember quite a bit and it
was it was a lot easier because there is diversity. There is the Black community,
the Hispanic community, and I kind of liked that I was pretty anonymous down
here.

[Lin]

That's important.

[Jason]

Where I live, I live in Jenison. It's pretty Dutch over there. You know? They're
nice people. But when I first moved down here, people were trying to save me.
Like I would go to church, "Oh, are you from Zuni Reservation? You know we do

9|Page

�missionary work out there." Or "Do you believe in Jesus?" I'm like, "Come on
man." I said "I grew up going to church!" Said, uh--"I went to church just like you
guys did." [Laughter]
[Lin]

So, you grew up in a church are you still--Skipping down to the religious part-- Do
you find yourself still religious? And attend church?

[Jason]

Nah. I dropped that a long time ago.

[Lin]

So how do you feel that part of your life went?

[Jason]

I'm just spiritual and in the [?] around me. I don't need no church or anything to
pray to which is – I am always connected. I guess I follow more traditional ways.
But even in that, I've been kind of evolving over the years. Where I just have my
own thing going on, and I'm happy with that.

[Lin]

That's important. So, can you tell me little bit about your parents and siblings and
your gamut of family?

[Jason]

My parents are up in Mount Pleasant. My father passed away at a young age. My
mother is still alive. I have a sister down here who lives in Grand Rapids. And a
cousin. Most of my family is in Mount Pleasant. Yeah, we-- It was a good
upbringing, you know the usual. We had our issues with drugs and alcohol, and
the whole-- all that stuff. But, you know, it's just part of life.

[Lin]

You'd mentioned that you're a traditional Native. Is any of your family or yourself
take part in the activities that go on in Grand Rapids? The events, or--?

[Jason]

I do once in a great while, when I have time. I used to more so, when I first
moved down here. When I first moved down, coming from the reservation, I was
really looking for that connection with Natives. Because I was thrust into the
white community where I was living. So it was nice to connect with the Natives.
So, I would go to the feast or the pow wow. And whatever little thing they had
going on.

[Lin]

So you mentioned that you don't do that as much. What's the reason for that?

[Jason]

Work.

[Lin]

Well, that's good.

[Jason]

Yeah, I'm always working here all the time.

[Lin]

So the question of the influences of civil rights organizations or political

10 | P a g e

�organizations. How has any of those, you know like AIM, or other organizations
that you can think of--How have they influenced you? Or were you involved?
[Jason]

I normally keep to myself in a lot of things. When I was younger, I used to get into
that a little bit with the AIM. I remember when Keewanaw Bay, they had their
uprising I was up there supporting them around that whole thing with the take
over and all that stuff.

[Lin]

Nice.

[Jason]

But after a while, you know, I just do my own thing.

[Lin]

Okay. Can you tell me about a positive experience that you've had living in Grand
Rapids as a Native?

[Jason]

I guess just the communities. Like I said, it is a lot more diverse. Coming from
where I grew up. I guess. Personally, and Native my artwork that open my eyes
to a lot broader spectrum. Because before I was just, I'd just seen one type of
thing my whole life. You know, there's bead work. You know, other designs. But
then moving here there's all this painting and all these different diverse forms of
work. I would say that's positive.

[Lin]

How did you learn your skill of being a stone sculptor?

[Jason]

There was a class where I grew up on the Saginaw Chippewa reservation. It was
through the Education Department. A couple members-- Well, one member went
to school in Santa Fe. He went to the Institute out there. He learned that out
there. And he brought it back to the rez. And his apprentice--him and his first
apprentice started a class. When I was fourteen. And, I just stuck with it ever
since.

[Lin]

Who has been an inspiration to your artwork? What has been an inspiration?

[Jason]

There's many things. I'd like to give them guys credit though. Dennis Christy was
the guy who first brought it across. and Dan Mena. So, they were inspiration to
me at one time, they still are. I guess promoting our stories through stone
because in the past it’s been handed down through word of mouth and some of
artwork. You know-- the baskets and stuff. But this is-- we're in here now. So,
what I do, one of my missions is, to put them stories in stone. Other cultures and
societies have their stories from seven thousand years ago. So, I thought--well,
we need that for us. [?].

[Lin]

Can you tell me a little--Have you ever had a negative experience living in the
urban setting?

11 | P a g e

�[Jason]

You know it's what you make of it, really. You know, because you're going to run
into ignorance all the time. Just like, how I said I moved to Jenison and the
people… It's just how they grew up. It gets frustrating but it's like you can't get
through to them because they don't see. They don't experience what we
experience. We don’t experience what they experience. How we going to -We're just going to be butting heads like in the--back on the rez. And in that little
town. So, I've kind of of learned like – You know it's no big deal, really. You
know?

[Lin]

Has anything changed in Jenison since you've been there?

[Jason]

Not really. But, I work down here. So, I'm down here mostly. I'm in the Hispanic
community. [Laughter] People probably think I'm a big Mexican down here. But,
you know, I feel comfortable down here. You know some people don't like the
neighborhood, but I like it. So, I've been down--working down here for like twelve
years. But talking about that experience. When I first moved here, it wasn't just
Jenison. I'm not trying to put Jenison people down either. It's just, like, all over.
But I usually get the people wanting to take pictures with me. You know?

[Lin]

Is that because you are Indian? Or because you are and artist?

[Jason]

Indian like when I first moved here. Like, one I went to a school with my girlfriend
Penny. Who went to her old school, I forgot what for, it was in the high school
and all them kids were staring at me in the windows. I happen to look over. It
never seen an Indian. It's like "Holy!" [Laughter]

[Lin]

When was this? Like 1954?

[Jason]

Like about twelve years ago, or twelve-thirteen years ago. That was kind of crazy
you know? I thought, "sheesh". So, like that stuff. And then, oe guy, he was kind
of annoying in the grocery store. In the grocery store he said, "So are you
Lakota? You know, I've been out there quite a bit." He would tell me every time. I
know he was just old and trying to be friendly. But after a while it got annoying.
"Man, you tell me the same story every time I see you!" [Laughter]

[Lin]

So what would you like to pass on to the next generations?

[Jason]

Uh-- just, um. It's what-- I guess, um--Going with it. Experience it's what you
make of it. You know, as we walk through life we're going to experience a lot of
negative stuff. It's what we make, you know? There's going to be prejudice and
people are going to throw all that negative stuff at us, but, you know, don't let it
get to you. It's--

12 | P a g e

�[Lin]

How do you handle that? I mean it's easy to say, "It's what you make of it," but in
practice?

[Jason]

It's just--I don't know. I just came to a point of my life where it don't bother me. It's
because mostly, it's on them. You know you see if you really truly look at people.
The different group. They grew up with that whole mentality of how they look at
us. Or, how they look at the Hispanic or Black groups. Or even then--or even us,
we're prejudiced against other groups, you know? Even within our own groups.
That's one thing that does bother me. It's like--um, some Natives--they're like
half, or a quarter--and then I hear the darker ones, I guess you would say, put
them down you know calling them white and all that. It's like "Pft" But yet, they
will be crying racism--You know, it's like-- Man can you be that way? and yet say
all that stuff. So, it's like I guess you just have to look into it. I guess that's how I
would say-- how do you handle that? You really look at the situation. You really
look at them people and consider their background, and all that--where they are
coming from. You just come to an understanding, you know?

[Lin]

Hm, sorry, that was my own personal question. Is there anything that I didn't ask
that you want to talk about today?

[Jason]

No. I think I'm good. [Laughter]

[Lin]

Well, thank you.

[Jason]

Thank you.

13 | P a g e

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
World War II
Jim Hallberg
Length of Interview (01:20:16)
Background
Born in Detroit, MI, January 11, 1921; moved around quite a bit
Father was a farm insurance specialist, traveled a lot
Finished high school, was preparing to go into college, but was called into the service


Graduated from Muskegon High School, 1939

Worked for Meta Pumps until he was drafted in the fall of 1941
Saving money for college, attending Junior College
Heard about Pearl Harbor in Ft. Worth, Texas while bowling


Military police came in and told all men in the service to head back to their bases

Training/Service (00:03:25)
Drafted on October 13, 1941


Reported to Muskegon Armory, then to Kalamazoo for medical examination, then to
Battle Creek where the men were split and sent to different forces



Hallberg was sent to Camp Waters, Texas

Had been aware of the war going on in Europe, read the papers (00:04:19)


Wasn’t a complete surprise



His brother had been in the first draft [April 1941]

Mainly strength training, did okay with this (00:05:06)
No problem with the military discipline
The other men he was training with had no problems, as well
Was assigned KP as few times

�Spent 13 weeks training


During training, Pearl Harbor was announced



Thought it was exciting because the war was on

34th Division (00:08:50)
Waited for assignment after basic training


Put on a train and was sent east to Fort Dix, New Jersey



Was put on a unit as an RP (Replacement Personnel)

Joined the 34th Division, 135th Infantry; National Guard (00:09:32)


Many of the men in that division were put back onto active duty



Hallberg and the other RP’s had to go in to put the unit up to full strength

The unit he was joining was friendly and easy to become acquainted with
In Fort Dix, was doing training similar to basic training in Texas (00:11:40)


M-1 Rifles, Browning Automatic Rifles, and machine guns



Browning automatic was very heavy



Only trained in small arms, no mortars

Sometimes would send whole groups or fractions to do certain types of training (00:12:35)


At the time, the army did not know how to train soldiers for certain conditions



When Hallberg’s unit was sent to North Africa, it was very strange



No special training

Went to New York for his honeymoon, had married at that time (00:13:30)


Given four days, the hotel room cost four dollars



Hallberg’s wife stayed only for those few days before going back, couldn’t stay on
the base

�Europe (00:16:25)
A few days later, Hallberg was given orders to be sent out, April of 1942


Ship out on the “Aquitania,” went through the Northern Atlantic



Took the top bunk, bottom bunks were reserved for the men who got sea-sick



Had 4,200 men on the ship, converted ocean-liner, British ship



Sailed with one of the largest convoys, seas were rough



U-boats would skim in and out between the ships (00:18:00)



The seas were high throughout the trip, took about 14 or 15 days



Would train with weapons, tried to keep in shape (00:19:22)



Given two meals a day, ate British food

Algeria (00:20:00)
Landed in Northern Ireland, formed groups to go on missions to patrol Ulster disguised as sailors
on an American Raider


on board cruiser HMS Sheffield, all men wore sailor suits, disguised as British sailors

Northern Ireland, landed in April, stayed in a city outside of Belfast (00:21:11)
When arriving, was invited by a pro-golf player to play golf, went every day they could
to the country club (00:21:27)
Hallberg did training when he wasn’t golfing
When first arriving, men were split into groups of 600 men (00:22:40)


Was never told why he was chosen to do ranger duty



Didn’t know his mission, knew there would be an invasion in Algeria



Two of the destroyers had a special-built bows designed to break into the barriers around
the port

�Put on Destroyers at Gibraltar, put back into their military uniform (00:24:05)


Was given his mission and objective then [they were supposed to sail into the harbor at
Algiers and seize control of it so that the rest of the fleet could sail in]



If they were given a signal by the Destroyers, they would have to pull back



The signal was given because one of the Destroyers had exploded

Began fighting halfway back to the ships, SOS (00:25:25)
Was on the “Malcolm,” Hallberg had been the first to step on shore (00:25:58)


Destroyers went right up to the docks, no smaller transport boats



Was planned this way



Went to the area they were supposed to capture, no one was there



Ships were being shot at as they went in, not at the people



Wasn’t told whether or not the French would fight (00:27:20)



Knew groups would be coming in from the east and west, but didn’t know who they were



Never got back to the boat



Put up enough fire to make the enemy soldiers believe they had artillery

Captured (00:28:33)
Fought nine hours before Hallberg’s group surrendered
 Colonel decided this
 Hallberg’s group was taken up to the prison
 Made of stone and brick, old-fashioned
 Most of Hallberg’s group was captured (about 600 men)
 Put into housing developments, floors were mosaic and ice-cold
 Hallberg got strep throat in November, British medical officer tended to him; took four
days to recover

� Only had jackets and blankets, no equipment
 Were treated okay by their French captors, who soon became allies
Division put him on MP duty (00:31:16)


Drove around in jeeps, patrolling and checking in case of trouble with the French



Made sure his group behaved



Couldn’t go to certain places, especially Casbah



Spent about five weeks on this duty

Headed out east towards Tunisia (00:33:15)


Very dry, desert-like terrain; in winter it snowed hard



Lots of mud and rain, slept where they could



Four weeks of traveling

Captured a few Germans, most surrendered (00:34:44)


First advance dealt with capturing prisoners

Kasserine Pass (00:35:28)
Sent to Kasserine Pass


First fight was a night attack, a lot of men were killed



Battalion Commander had been a prisoner before the war; was a kind man and good
soldier; injured by fall into a grenade ditch



Hallberg was injured in this battle, as well



Couldn’t see much, only saw the enemy in the distance



The Germans were tough soldiers

�The Army wasn’t prepared to fight this war (00:37:45)


Didn’t know how to prepare soldiers for fighting



Not well trained



Had only 10 American Tanks and the rest were British

Hallberg was injured by walking out into a smokescreen, put there by the Americans, and falling
10 or 12 feet (00:39:33)


Broke four spinous processes in his vertebrae



Couldn’t get an operation, but it wasn’t bad enough to affect his walking



Was sent to the rear



Sent to Oran in a hospital ship



Went on a Weapons Carrier to Tunis, had been in the hospital for two months



Weapons Carrier- a six wheeled vehicle that carries six men with machine guns or small
weapons, fairly small vehicle, open top

The fighting in Tunisia was just finishing (00:42:50)


Hallberg’s first job was to direct traffic



British and French soldiers there
The British were known for brewing tea in the middle of battle (00:43:38)



During battle, the British and Americans cooperated well together

Wasn’t assigned a job to deal with surrendering German soldiers (00:45:00)
Salerno and Anzio (00:45:34)
Prepare for the landing in Salerno by training in Infantry Landing Craft [LCIs]


Given instructions, didn’t go along as a combat soldier



Worked in the kitchen at the HQ, cooked mostly for the personnel

Was in one of the firsts waves to land on Salerno, Italy; September 1943 (00:47:36)

�It was a bit frightening, went down the sides of the landing craft (LCI), not on a platform
(00:48:50)


Doesn’t recall the event very well, just remembers getting off quickly



Headed out to his designated point, kept moving



Germans just heading out

Recalls Anzio very clearly (00:50:45)


Had to sleep in dug-outs, stuck out there with nothing



Called for support from the Navy and they shot Big Berthas from an LCI, son of the
editor of a newspaper in Hallberg’s hometown was the Commander of the ship



Big Berthas are able to be shot from 20 miles away

Between Salerno and Anzio, 34th Division was caught up in quite a bit of the fighting (00:52:10)


A fight in Cassino

Hallberg believes that if they had kept going into Rome, it would have been beneficial
(00:53:15)
The area of Anzio looks quite a bit like Michigan, landed on a beach (00:54:05)


Everyone had to dig in



Americans built an air strip right away



Ran pursuit ships after the Germans

Still had a job in the kitchens (00:54:45)
Germans would fire every once in a while, but not often (00:54:57)


Germans mainly did air attacks

Last day of the War, outside of Bologna, Germans dropped anti-personnel bombs, killed 129
men (00:55:35)
Was in Anzio for a couple of months, at most (00:56:15)

�Como, Italy was Hallberg’s Division’s last objective (00:56:31)
Met a lot of Italian civilians (00:56:43)


Once gave the civilians meat, hadn’t seen it in a long time



Isn’t sure if Italian civilians helped the Americans

Stayed away from buildings, slept in tents or in the open (00:57:57)
Didn’t stay in touch with people he was in previously, L-Company, 135th (00:58:30)


Was with the Division Headquarters Company



Mark Clark was his Army Commander in the 34th [in Italy]

General Patton in Africa (00:59:27)


Fined people for not wearing a part of their uniform



Never had to see his speeches; whenever Hallberg saw him, he wasn’t in a military
uniform



An arrogant man

Worked for the Division’s Post Office along with his kitchen duties (01:01:35)


The Division had a lot of men



They would send out money and letters often



Had to censor the mail, same as they do today



Had two Japanese-American regiments [battalions]- had the most beautiful handwriting
ever; very good fighters

Takahashi- one of the Japanese-American soldiers would often speak with Hallberg
(01:03:11)


Was treated poorly in America but was respected when fighting the War in Europe



Japanese-American soldiers were excellent soldiers and were wanted by most



Takahashi would talk about internment camps, but was proud of being in the Army

�In Algiers, Hallberg was in a foxhole when a mortar shell landed near him, undetonated; he
ran as fast as he could away from it (01:05:05)
Lake Como, Germans surrender in Italy (01:06:05)


Hallberg saw the executed bodies of Mussolini and his mistress Petacci



The crowd was vehement towards them



Didn’t have to deal with German prisoners, went to Rome

Returning Home (01:07:30)
In Rome for three weeks, sent to Naples


Hallberg had 39 [89?] points because he was there for so long



Were building B-17’s, with bucket seats, to send men home



Naples to Dakar to Brazil



Got on a new DC-3, flew to the U.S



Discharged from Indiantown Camp (01:09:10)



Was the first time he ever flew an airplane; man from Michigan was flying the plane,
attended Hallberg’s high school

Went back to work for Norge but they had to lay people off due to financial troubles (01:10:11)


Was laid off because he wanted another man with five kids to keep his job



Went to work for another place and retired from there after 35 years

Received a Soldier’s Bonus, and bought a lot to build his house (01:11:20)


Sold the lot to buy another house, received money from a friend, $13,500



Took 16 years to pay it off, was married then

�Mrs. Hallberg (01:14:30)
Hallberg was the same guy after the War, being a soldier is not the job he would ever want to
keep


Had been with the same men for most of the War, 18 men from his hometown



His wife worked while he was fighting
Did secretarial work, then went with her family to work at a shop inspecting
40mm shell cases (worked 10 hour days, the people went on strike), left the job to
work at the office for GM (General Motors)
Hallberg had been gone for 42 months; she kept working when he came back
Would watch the newsreels at the theater, wanted to see if her husband was in
them
The other women were very kind; when Hallberg was in Fort Worth, his wife
drove with four other women to visit (New Year’s Eve); also visited him at Fort
Dix

The Hallbergs formed lasting friendships during the War with those people

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Robert Halle
(00:01:02)
Background
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Goes by Bob. (:02)
Born in 1932 in Berlin, NH. (0:28)
When he was ten years old, his family moved to Michigan. His parents had seven
children and his father needed a better job. His father worked for Ford Motor Company.
(0:28)
At Berlin, his father had been an assistant Fire Chief. (:50)
In Detroit, Michigan, he worked as plant protection for Ford. He also sometimes drove
trucks. (:58)
Next they moved to Taylor, Michigan. His mother worked for Kaiser in the cafeteria.
She hadn't worked in NH. (1:24)
Bob was the middle of the five boys. (1:50)
His older brother was in the Merchant Marines in WWII, and then the Marines. (2:07)
He knew a little bit about WWII because of his brother. (2:25)
He finished elementary school and junior high in Taylor, MI. For high school he was
bussed into Winstead, to Roosevelt High School. (2:34)

Enlistment
•
•

•

He joined the Marine Corps Reserve at the age of seventeen, while still in high school.
The Reserve gave him about $30 every few weeks. (3:00)
After his junior year (1950), his reserve unit was called in for the Korean War. He
recalls having a choice in the matter, and decided to go. His parents may have pressured
him into going, but he is unsure. (3:25)
Was in the US Marine Corps Reserve. He picked the Marines because of his older
brother, whom he had admired. (4:23)

Training/Deployment
•
Was sent to San Diego, CA for boot camp. (5:09)
•
After boot camp, was sent to Camp Pendleton for advanced military training. (5:21)
•
Traveled by train, which took about three days. (5:38)
•
Basic training consisted of weapons training—rifles and machine guns. (5:51)
•
Physical training was important as well, they had to be in shape. (6:22)
•
Found the training difficult. He was not a large man, and he was only seventeen. (6:31)
•
He felt good about the experience. (6:52)
•
Some of his drill instructors had served in WWII. (6:58)
•
Advance training was more intensive, and emphasized outdoor training such as hiking
more. It also included winter training, in the California mountains. Advance training
also included stimulated combat. (7:20)
•
The Korean War was seen as part of the “war on communism” but it was not referred to
as the “Cold War” at that time. (8:02)
•
Training took place in California, mostly near San Diego. (8:31)
•
Trained from mid-August to about December. (9:09)
•
He was shipped to Korea in 1951, after coming home for Christmas. (9:49)

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•
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•
•
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•

His older brother was called back into service, and another brother joined the Marines as
well. All three of them were home for Christmas. (10:10)
He had about ten days for leave after training. Leave after training was rather common.
(10:42)
Next he was sent back to California, possibly for more training. He is unsure. (11:03)
Arrived in Korea mid February, or early March. It was around his eighteenth birthday.
(11:16)
Shipped out of San Diego on a large ship. It may have been the U.S.S. Lincoln, but he
is unsure. (12:03)
He found the experience very moving. He was also afraid of the ocean at night. (12:21)
The uncertainty of the situation was worrisome. (12:55)
The ship was not joined by any others. (13:04)
On deck they completed more physical training. He does not recall having any job on
particular on board. (13:24)
The water was rough, many of the men were seasick. (13:39)
The voyage was about two weeks. Ten to fourteen days. (14:11)

Arrival
•
•
•
•
•
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He was a private. (14:29)
He joined a weapons company, a section of machine guns. The unit had a 30 caliber
water-cooled machine gun. He was an ammo carrier. (14:35)
The sections consisted of about sixteen people. (15:22)
They had two heavy machine guns, five to six ammo carriers. (15:24)
Landed in the southern part of Korea, near Pusan, a common port (15:45)
He was assigned to a reserve unit. (16:35)
they were near the 38th parallel. (16:47)
Shortly after arriving, they were moved toward the North and the combat zone. (17:14)

Active Duty
•

•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

His first combat experience was on a hill. There was a large fire-fight on a hill ahead of
them. The battle took place at night. His unit's objective was to assist the other men, as
they were being hit badly. There first objective was to bring the wounded back to their
area. He had trained with some of the wounded men. They also brought the bodies of
the dead back. (17:47)
The experience was very unpleasant., especially seeing the dead men. (19:36)
They used body bags for the killed men. (19:48)
Korea was very warm. (19:56)
He had another combat in early June. (20:24)
This combat was closer, and shells were used. One of the shells landed near him.
(20:43)
At the time, he was relieving himself to the side of a tree. When he heard the shell, he
moved behind the tree. (20:57)
The tree saved his life, but he was wounded by wood shrapnel. (21:21)
He got stitches, it was not a severe wound. (21:53)
He was wounded around June 20th, and was back the first of July. He was only out of
duty for a few weeks. (22:06)
Not sure about the quality of the enemy weapons. Believes they were probably similar
to what they used. (22:27)
The Marines were using WWII era weapons. Although the US had higher quality

�weapons than the enemy forces, in practice older weapons were used in the field.
(23:13)
The Chinese Troops
•
He came in contact with some Chinese troops in September of 1951. He was with two
men in a bunker on a hill. Inside the bunker were some dead Chinese troops. North
Korean troops were also in the area, although in this instance it was mostly Chinese
troops. The experience was his first contact with Chinese troops. (24:00)
•
Many of the troops were worried about the Chinese involvement. Especially at Hill
749—the same hill he had been at the first time. He returned again for two to three
days. The men in the unit they were relieving had taken many injuries. (25:10)
•
This time around he was the gunner, and had an assistant gunner. (26:24)
•
They expected an attack by the Chinese. (26:40)
•
They set up a perimeter, putting the machine guns at a point of defense. The machine
gun was used to cover the riflemen. (26:53)
•
Three attacks came in the night. The Chinese used grenades, machine guns, and
mortars. (27:21)
•
This was his first experience with such a direct attack. (27:50)
Korean Troops
•
He worked with South Korean troops, they helped carry supplies. (28:00)
•
They got along with the Korean troops. (28:32)
•
He did not go on leave while in Korea, unless his hospital stays could be considered
leave. (28:59)
•
He started opening the machine gun, in a hole with the assistant gunner fifteen feet
away. (29:40)
•
As the battle accelerated, one of the men was hit in the neck. He pleaded “Please, don't
me die” (29:59)
•
A grenade was thrown in the hole. (30:42)
•
He opened fire with the machine gun. They used tracers, which lit up. (30:50)
Wounded/Hospital Stay
•
He was hit in the head and knocked out. He has a plate in his head because of the
wound. (31:18)
•
The assistant gunner called in Dick Blassingame, who became a hero at this battle. Dick
field dressed his head,and took over the gun. (31:36)
•
He was wounded around 1:00 AM. (32:21)
•
When he woke up, it was daylight. His head felt bad. He could feel the dressing on his
wound. He was able to hear the voices of the men. (32:30)
•
He felt around near the hole, and found a dead Chinese man. (32:55)
•
His right side was paralyzed. He was able to see, and he yelled. He was then carried to
the Aid station, then put on a helicopter (with an open side). He was conscious during
the experience. Shortly after, he was sent to a hospital ship. (33:20)
•
He was in the Aid Center for a few hours, not very long. (34:05)
•
Other men in the center had worse wounds. (34:30)
•
He was wounded in September. (34:57)
•
He went from the Aid Station to a hospital in Seoul, to a hospital ship in Pusan, to a
hospital in Kobe, Japan. Next, he was sent to a hospital in Hawaii for a day or two, and
then he was flown into the San Francisco Oakland hospital, where he stayed for around
a month. (35:02)
•
He was then sent home. (36:04)

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•

The Japanese and Korean hospital were high quality. He was not worried about them.
(36:12)
He needed to use a walker for a brief time, about a month and a half. (36:33)
He wrote letters while in Korea, but after being wounded his bad handwriting was
worsened. He had a relative in the area, who kept contact with his family. (37:20)
They mostly read military newspapers in Korea. The papers were mostly on military
subjects. (38:05)
Doesn't recall men being worried about Russian involvement in the Korean War. (38:44)

Pictures/Documents
•
A picture of his reserve unit he joined in July 1959. (39:24)
•
Picture of himself in boot camp. He is on the far right. (40:02)
•
Picture of his friends. (40:35)
•
Picture of advance training. (40:40)
•
Picture of him and his brothers who enlisted in the Marines. His oldest brother Fred, and
his next older brother Bruce both enlisted. (40:51)
•
Fred trained other Marines, and himself and Bruce both served in Korea. (41:08)
•
A newspaper clipping on his family, notes his fathers pride in his sons. (41:25)
•
Picture of his family. (41:46)
•
Telegrams sent to his family regarding his first injury. He reported back from the first
wound on June 27th, not July 1st. (41:56)
•
Sketch of him at the hospital. The sketch was drawn by a Korean at the hospital.
(42:24)
•
Picture of his first Purple Heart. (42:49)
•
Picture of himself and his section leader, Dick Blassingame. (43:00)
•
Picture of the machine gun. (43:14)
•
Picture of his comrades. (43:20)
•
Picture of his section of gunners, prior to Hill 749. A result of the battle is included.
Most of the men were wounded, three or four were killed, and three others were
rendered unfit for combat as a result of shell shock. (43:27)
•
Another picture of himself and Dick, eating dinner with Liz Taylor. The picture is in a
book (We Claim the Title) about the Korean War. His name is misspelled as “Holly”
(44:35)
•
He was close friends with Dick, who called him “Buddy” or “Buddy Holly.” The book
author had interviewed Dick, and Dick had given him the incorrect spelling. (45:27)
•
He left the hill in September of 1951. He heard about the book in the nineties. (46:11)
•
He bought the book, and read it on a trip with his wife. He found the book very moving.
He called the publishing company, then the author, and was able to get in touch with
Dick again. (47:05)
•
Talked with Dick over the phone, it was very emotional for him. They met again in
2000, and again a month or so ago. (48:60)
•
An article in the paper about his head wound. (48:38)
•
Newsletter about Hill 749. Many men were killed. (48:45)
•
Telegrams related to his second wound. He had been hit in the left side of the head.
(49:53)
•
The Lieutenant sent a letter full of praise to his parents, and also mentioned
Blasongsame. (50:13)
•
Picture of his second Purple Heart. (51:10)
•
Picture of himself in the hospital. (51:17)

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•

•
•
•
•
•
•

He was in a wheelchair for a bit after he wound. (51:29)
He was discharged in January, and went back to school. (15:58)
He had the plate put in at Grey's Hospital in Detroit. (52:25)
Blassingame had earned the Navy Cross. He had maintained perfect gun control,
rendered First Aid, and had supervised the troops. (52:50)
Picture of assistant gunner Bob Dilquist, who was not at Hill 749. (53:46)
His discharge papers. He had served seven months in Korea, and two years in the
Marine Corps. (54:25)
Picture of himself and Blassingame when they met again in 1994. Dick remembered
him fondly. The picture is near a church in California. Dick had been worried about his
head injury causing brain damage. (54:48)
Picture of his family, wife and eldest daughter. (56:12)
He and his wife climbed Macchu Picchu. He had had knee replacement surgery
recently. (56:23)
Picture of his daughters Michelle, and Danette (56:47)
Picture of his son Rob, his wife and three sons. (56:57)
Picture of Michelle again. (57:03)
Family picture in Dominican Republic, Spring of 2007. He has three children and eight
grandchildren. (57:10)

Post-War Life
•
He went back to Michigan after the war. He had been discharged for medical reasons.
(57:53)
•
He graduated high school in 1953. Then he went to college at Eastern Michigan. Earned
his bachelors degree in 1957, and began teaching in Dearborn. (58:09)
•
Earned his master's degree in 1959. (58:38)
•
Taught elementary school for three years. (58:40)
•
Became a “supervising teacher: at Eastern Michigan University. He trained student
teachers. (58:53)
•
Married 1961. He was a principal for a year in Homer, MI and then again in Royal Oak
for eight years. (59:33)
•
Spent three years as an assistant superintendent in Constance. (59:51)
•
Worked on his PhD at MSU. He was superintendent for four years. Then he was a
superintendent at Kent City for eight years. He then worked at Jackson, MI for eight
years and retired 1994. (1:00:00)
•
The possibility of a draft for the current war is very controversial, but he is opposed to
it. He thinks the main reason that it has not been used it because the administration has
outsourced military activity to corporations, such as Blackwater. (1:02)

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HAMBURG TOWNSHIP
MASTER PLAN

�,,, FROM THE LIBRARY OF
'.Planning &amp; Zoning Center, Inc.
This region, now a favorite resting place of the tired dweller of the city was, less
than a hundred years ago, the summer playground and source of food supply of the
Pottowattomie Indians. It is rich in Indian tradition . It was here that the red men
came during the warm months to hunt and fish and gather the bountiful harvest of
wild berries and fruits. Their lodges were pitched each year on the high and broad
plateau that reaches back from the southern shore of Strawberry Lake. From this
central location the braves ranged forest and stream while the squaws performed
the routine labor of the vi IIage. Over the hi Ils to the north lay the territory of the
Saginaw Chippewas. Sometimes bands from this tribe would cross the divide and
come down across the Huron to be received with becoming dignity by the
Pottowattomie chiefs at Strawberry Point. Here too, in the earlier days, came
couriers from the white governors at Fort Ponchartrain, now Detroit, to be heard
at the council fire of the Pottowattomies and courier-de-bois to trade for Indian
peltry. Little wonder that a land once the delight of the children of the forest,
still retaining its primeval beauty, should appeal with insistent call to their white
successors.
Hamburg Township area
as described in the
Valley of a Thousand Lakes
written in 1922 by Chas. A. Ward

HAMBURG TOWNSHIP
MASTER PLAN
Adopted by the
Hamburg Township Planning Commission
July I I, 1979
Approved by the
Hamburg Township Board
November 26, 1979 and
Livingston County Planning Commission
September 19, 1979

Prepared by the
Hamburg Township Planning Commission
and
Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; May, Inc.
Engineers - Architects - Planners
Ann Arbor, Michigan

�HAMBURG TOWNSHIP OFFICIALS

Township Board

Planning Commission

James De Wolf, Supervisor

Buhl Burton, Chairman

Martha Parrish, Clerk

Vincent Vis, Vice-Chairman

Cathryn Jezowski, Treasurer

Howard Knop

William Backlund, Trustee

Duane Bethke

Richard Sandula, Trustee

James DeWolf

Frank Vosmik, Trustee

John Haberkorn

Henry Wuckert, Trustee

Robert Kennedy
Frank Borik (retired)
Donald Weed (retired)

Consultants
Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; May, Inc.
Engineers - Architects - Planners
3983 Research Park Drive
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104

�TABLE OF CONTENTS
TITLE

PAGE

Hamburg Township Officials
List of Maps and Figures
INTRODUCTION

I- 7

Purpose
Master Plan Summary
Community Goals
Background Studies
Master Plan
COMMUNITY GOALS
BACKGROUND STUDIES

2
2
2
3

8-9
10 - 46

Growth and Settlement
Historical Perspective
Regional Context
Existing Land Use

10
10
II
II

Population and Economy
Population
Economy

17
17
21

Community Facilities and Services
Schools
Parks and Recreation
Government Facilities
Police and Fire Service
Water, Wastewater, Solid Waste, and Utilities
Roads

23
23
25
27

28
30
31

�TABLE OF CONTENTS (continued)

TITLE

Natural Resource Inventory and Capability
Soils
Topography and Relief
Water Resources
Sensitive Environmental Features
Natural Resource Development Capability
MASTER PLAN

PAGE

36
36
38
40
42
44
47 - 71

Planning Approach

47

Community Facilities and Transportation Improvements Plan
Schools
Parks and Recreation
Government Facilities
Police and Fire Service
Water, Wastewater, and Sol id Waste
Transportation Improvements
Implementation Recommendations

48
48

Land Use Plan
Location Standards
Planning Strategies
Natural Resource Strategies
Implementation Recommendations
APPENDIX

50

52
52
53
55
57
59
59
61

66
69

�List of Mops md Figures

Map I

Existing Land Use

Map 2

Natural Resource Capability

Map 3

Community Facilities and Transportation Plan

Map 4

Land Use Plan

Figures

Figure I

Regional Location

Figure 2

Population Trends

Figure 3

Population by Age Group

Figure 4

School Districts Within Hamhurg Township

Figure 5

Typical Road Standards

Figure 6

Primary and Local Hard Top Roadways

Figure 7

Typical Township Cross-Section

Figure 8

Natural Resources Capability Process

Figure 9

Proposed Land Use

Figure 10

Proposed Residential Land Use by Planning Area

�Introduction

�PURPOSE
The population of Hamburg Township has doubled since the adoption of the first
Township Master Plan in 1967. Therefore, a revised plan reflecting changing
conditions was needed to provide guidance to Township decisions regarding future
development. In June of 1978, the Planning Commission initiated the preparation
of a revised Master Plan for Hamburg Township. The Master Plan represents the
combined efforts of the Hamburg Township Board of Trustees and Planning
Commission, Township staff, citizens and Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; May, Inc.,
consultants in planning, engineering and architecture.
The Township derives its authority for the preparation of a Master Plan from the
Township Planning Act, P.A. 168 of 1959 Section 6 of the Act states:
The planning commission shall make and adopt a basic plan as a guide for the
development of unincorporated portions of the township. As a basis for the
plan, the planning commission is hereby empowered to (I) make inquiries,
investigations and surveys of all the resources of the township and (2)
assemble and analyze data and formulate plans for the proper conservation
and uses of all resources, including a determination of the extent of probable
future need for the most advantageous designation of lands having various
use potentials and for services, facilities and utilities required to equip such
lands.
It is important to note that the Master Plan and accompanying maps do not
replace other Township Ordinances, specifically the Zoning Ordinance and Map.
Zoning is only one of the many legal devices used to implement the Master Plan.
Many policies contained in the Master Plan will not be implementable merely
through the use of zoning. For example, public actions such as water and sewer
development, future park sites and school locations, transportation improvements
and other civic improvements cannot be dealt with through zoning. The Master
Plan attempts to coordinate public improvements and private developments, a
task unattainable with zoning.
The Plan also establishes development policy
guidelines to be implemented not only by zoning, but subdivision regulations,
building codes, health codes, and other legal devices.

�MASTER PLAN SUMMARY
The process followed in developing the Master Plan consisted of three phases:
- Identification of Community Goals
- Preparation of Background Studies
- Development of the Master Plan
These phases also represent the organization of this document. Although the
findings of each phase are thoroughly detailed in this document, the more
significant findings are summarized here.
COMMUNITY GOALS
A key element in the preparation of the Master Plan is the identification of
community goals which reflect the community's desires regarding the development
of the Township.
Community goals, combined with the technical studies
conducted in conjunction with this plan, serve as the foundation upon which the
Master Plan is built. In return, the Master Plan is formulated to provide guidance
and direction towards the achievement of Township goals. Eleven community
goals regarding the future development of Hamburg Township were identified by
the Planning Commission.
BACKGROUND STUDIES
A number of studies were conducted to determine existing conditions in Hamburg
Township. Existing Land Use was inventoried and mapped to establish types and
patterns of land use. Population was evaluated to determine numbers and trends,
characteristics, and projections. The local Economy was evaluated in terms of tax
base and employment trends. Community Facilities and Services, those buildings,
land, equipment and activities owned and operated by the public or by the private
sector for the benefit of the community, were inventoried and their adequacy
assessed. Natural Resources Inventory and Capability involved soils, topography
and relief, water resources, and environmental features. Using the information
obtained in the natural resource inventory, criteria were established for various
resource factors to determine which lands are capable of supporting development.

2

�MASTER PLAN
PLANNING APPROACH
The Master Plan emphasizes the proper use and management of the Township's
natural and man-made resources in an effort to maintain and improve the quality
of life for residents. Thus, the plan is based highly upon community goals, existing
land use patterns, and the capability of the natural resource base and community
facilities and services to accommodate future development. A 1990 population of
12,102 and a 2000 population of 17,566 is used as a guideline for future population
growth.
COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND
TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS PLAN
As Hamburg Township continues to grow and the characteristics of the population
changes, the demand for improved facilities and services will increase. Planning
for the proper location of community facilities will lead toward the most efficient
use of tax dollars and delivery of services.
Section 10 of the Township Planning Act, P.A. 168 of 1959, states that upon an
adoption of a plan, the Planning Commission shall have the authority to approve
the location, character and extent of any street, square, park or other pub I ic way,
ground or open space, or public building or structure proposed to be located within
the Township. It is recommended that the Township initiate the preparation of a
Capital Improvements Program to promote the orderly planning and financing of
Township community facilities.
Schools: Although the responsibility for schools lies with local school boards, the
Master Plan can provide guidance by illustrating the relationship between future
land use patterns and population distribution and the location and sizing of school
facilities. Annual meetings between School Boards and the Township Planning
Commission should be scheduled to discuss Township growth patterns and the
impact on school facilities.

3

�Police and Fire Service:
The continuing influx of high value residential,
commercial and industrial development into Hamburg Township will increase the
demand for more police and fire protection. The Township Board should consider
creating a Public Safety Committee to review police and fire protection needs.
Alternatives for increased police protection should be explored. The addition of a
full-time Fire Chief and a fire substation in the western portion of the Township
should be considered.
Water, Wastewater and Solid Waste: Due to the availability of groundwater
resources, the need for public water supply is not critical in the near future. The
provision of public sewers appears to be a more pressing concern in certain areas
of the Township. Existing population densities, natural resource conditions and
land use in the Upper and Lower Lakes and Hamburg Areas warrant another means
of wastewater disposal than the current on-site septic systems. The construction
of the solid waste transfer station at Merrill Field will handle Township needs.
However, Township participation in County solid waste management planning is
vital.
Parks and Recreation:
Merrill Field has the potential for development as a
complete community recreation facility.
Plans call for additional softball
diamonds, restrooms, parking, tennis courts, picnic areas, trai Is and nature areas.
The trail proposed by DNR along the abandoned G.T.W. railroad bed could offer
tremendous recreation potential, but concerns of the security of residents must be
considered. The Township should only support the development of this trail for
non-motorized activity.
Government Facilities: The existing Township offices present many problems due
to inadequate office and meeting space, sanitary facilities and parking. As the
Township continues to grow the need for a new Township Hall will become
increasingly apparent. In addition to development as a community park, Merrill
Field would provide an ideal site for a Township Center. Development of a
Township Center would consolidate a number of community activities at one
location, thereby serving as a focal point for Township activities in much the same
manner as the existing Township facilities function.

4

�Transportation Improvements: The purpose of the Township road network is to
provide for the safe and efficient movement of people and goods within and
through the Township. Adequate roads are essential to the conduct of commerce
and daily human activities.
M-36 is the highest priority for improvement.
Although a comprehensive widening and improvement program of M-36 is viewed
as justified by Township officials, the Michigan Department of State Highways and
Transportation has no such plans. Several incremental changes could be made to
improve conditions:
Construction of a bypass to alleviate pressure on the stretch of M-36
from the flashing light north of Hamburg Village past the commercial
strip to where the curve is intersected by Hamburg Road.
In lieu of the costly construction of a bypass, reconstruction of the
Hamburg Road intersection to provide for a three-way stop.
Reconstruction of the Merrill Road intersection and road bank removal
to provide for better sight distance and safer access to Merrill Road.
Construction of turning lanes at the Chilson Road, Kress Road,
Pettysville Road and McGregor Road.
Construction of a service drive at the rear of M-36 businesses near
Hamburg Village.
Other road improvements include Merrill Road, Bishop Lake Road and portions of
Chilson, Hamburg, Pettysville and Strawberry Lake Roads.
LAND USE PLAN
The Land Use Plan serves to translate Community Goals into a narrative and
graphic illustration. It is based largely upon existing land use patterns, natural
resource capability and adequacy of community facilities and services. The Land
Use Plan Map is not intended to serve as a Zoning Map nor dictate the use of
individual parcels of property. Rather, it is to be used as a generalized guide to
the location of growth and development.

5

�Location Standards: Location standards for each major type of land use were used
in developing the Land Use Plan. Low density rural residential is planned for land
areas least capable of supporting development, difficult to serve with community
facilities, or reserved for residential development beyond the year 2000.
Medium density residential is intended for areas including and adjacent to existing
medium density residential areas and certain undeveloped land areas which are
least capable of supporting development at higher densities. High density and
multiple family residential is intended for areas including and adjacent to existing
high density residential areas, capable of supporting development at higher
densities, and in close proximity to community facilities and service, transportation routes and commercial areas. Natural river residential is located within the
Huron Natural River District. Commercial areas are intended to maintain and, in
certain cases, expand existing commercial areas where population densities
dictate. Industrial areas are contained to the larger existing industrial areas.
These areas are relatively isolated from residential areas and can be served with
community facilities and services.
Planning Strategies: The amount of land allocated to the various categories of
residential land use wi 11 be a key determinant of future population. The extent of
residential land use proposed by Land Use Plan will provide for a population of
approximately 17,566 by the year 2000, as projected by SEMCOG Alternative Six.
The Land Use Plan allows for the concentration of development in areas with a
capable resource base and adequate community facilities and the reduction of
densities in areas not capable of supporting development. A vigilant policy of
concentrating growth in the appropriate areas will lead towards easing developmental pressures in areas which are not capable of supporting development or
should be preserved for very low density development.
The Hamburg Village Area has historically been a center of governmental, social
and commercial activity. It is the area of closest proximity to U.S. 23 and the
metropolitan Detroit area. Further, the Village has a large proportion of land
capable of supporting development. The Land Use Plan calls for the continuation
and enhancement of Hamburg Village Area as the primary center of community
activity.

6

�The Lower Lakes Area and the Upper Lakes Area wi II continue largely as
residential areas very closely tied to lake waterfronts. To minimize pressures on
the lakes, overall residential densities should be kept as low as possible. Currently
undeveloped areas which are not capable of supporting development are
designated as low density rural residential and reserve.
Concentrations of medium density residential, commercial and public land uses
will enhance the Rush Lake Area as a secondary center of community activity.
The proximity to schools and the Village of Pinckney coupled with a capable
resource base makes the area attractive for more residential development.
Within the State Lands Area, the Land Use Plan designates privately owned lands
as low density rural residential and reserve. The proximity to the Brighton State
Recreation Area and the lack of accessibility to community facilities and services
make the area inappropriate for any higher density development now and well into
the future.
Natural Resource Strategies: The Master Plan must address the quality as well as
the quantity of land use within the Township. A commitment to protection of
Township resources will require the adoption of policies directed toward the
specific resource problem including drainage, floodplains, surface and groundwater
quality, and natural topography and vegetation. Resource protection regulations
can be incorporated in subdivision, zoning and other special purpose regulations.
Implementation Recommendation: One of the principle means of implementing
the Land Use Plan is through the Township Zoning Ordinance.
The present
ordinance adopted in 1968 should be reviewed so that it conforms to the basic
proposals of the Plan. To encourage more creative design, preservation of open
space, and mixed use of a site, a planned unit development (PUD) option should be
incorporated in the Zoning Ordinance. A more detailed site plan review process
has been incorporated into the Township Zoning Ordinance. Site plan review can
be instrumental in implementing the goals of this Plan.

7

�Community Goals

�COMMUNITY GOALS
A key element in the preparation of the Master Plan is the identification of
community goals which reflect the community's desires regarding the development
of the Township.
Community goals, combined with the technical studies
conducted in conjunction with this plan, serve as the foundation upon which the
Master Plan is built. In return, the Master Plan is formulated to provide guidance
and direction towards the achievement of Township goals.
The following community goals for Hamburg Township were identified by the
Planning Commission:
I.

To protect and promote the health, safety, comfort, convenience and
general welfare of the public.

2.

To make planning a local community effort to control the Township's own
destiny, rather than submitting to county, regional or state control.

3.

To cooperate with public school officials in planning the number and location
of schools and playgrounds.

4.

To ensure the ease of movement for people and goods.

5.

To assign all future development to those areas most suited for that type of
development.

6.

To maintain the present low density residential character of the community
in harmony with the unique environmental requirements of the Township.

7.

To achieve well planned, safe, balanced and pleasant residential environments.

8.

To protect, preserve, and enhance whenever possible the unique and
desirable natural amenities of Hamburg Township.

8

�9.

To meet all state and federal requirements pertaining to water and
wastewater treatments, distribution and collection.

10.

To establish a sound commercial economic base through preservation and
enhancement of business districts in the Hamburg, Buck Lake, Rush Lake,
and Lakeland areas.

11.

To provide opportunity for industrial growth where it will least conflict with
surrounding land use.

9

�Background Studies

�GROWTH AND SETTLEMENT
HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
The attractiveness of Hamburg Township as a place of residence and recreation is
not a rec_e nt phenomenon. As illustrated by the cover page quote from the Valley
of a Thousand Lakes, Hamburg Township provided hunting, fishing and recreational
grounds for the Pottowattomie Indians.
The first white settler to the Hamburg area was Jesse Hall who purchased Section
25 from the United States government in 1831 and bui It a cabin in the northeast
quarter section. This was the beginning of the settlement of Hamburg Village. By
1835, property owners established the organization of the Township and elected
the first Township officials.
Due to the availability of inexpensive farm land, Hamburg thrived as an
agricultural community throughout the 19th century. However, except for a brief
resurgence during the Depression, agricultural activities declined in the 20th
century.
In the latter part of the 19th century, Livingston County began ta be recognized
as a recreational haven for Detroit and Ann Arbor residents, thereby establishing
a trend that remains today. Prior to 1900, the sole occupants of Zukey Lake were
the Ann Arbor Sporting Club and the Oak Grove Club, both private hunting and
fishing clubs. The improvement of county and state roads, and the completion of
the Ann Arbor Railroad through Hamburg Township, opened the lakes to more
summer visitors by the early 20th century. Lakeland, located in the heart of the
lakes region, emerged as a "port of entry" to the lakes upon completion of its
railroad station.
The Great Depression and World War II slowed the development of Hamburg
Township as a recreational community. The transformation of Hamburg Township
from a seasonal recreational to a permanent residential environment occurred
largely after World War II with the conversion of cottages to year-round
residences.
10

�REGIONAL CONTEXT
Today, Hamburg Township lies within one of the fastest growing areas in
Michigan. The urbanization of Livingston County is part of the trend of outward
migration from the Detroit Metropolitan area. Ann Arbor, Suburban Wayne and
Oakland Counties and Detroit are within commuting distance from Hamburg
Township. Figure I illustrates the regional location of Hamburg Township.
A number of factors can be cited for growth in the southeastern Livingston
County area:
The completion of Interstate 96 and U.S. 23 increasing accessibility
from Hamburg Township to the major places of employment in the
metropolitan region.
The availability of relatively inexpensive large tracts of land suitable
for subdivision development.
The desire of people for a rural atmosphere.
The attractiveness of lakefront or rural estate homesites.
EXISTING LAND USE
TYPE AND EXTENT
An inventory of existing land use was conducted using current aerial photographs
verified by field observation.
Existing land uses presented in Map I were
classified in the following categories ,and the extent of their acreage determined:
Low and medium density residential includes all lands where single family
residences are located at a density of one dwelling unit per one to two acres.
This is currently the most extensively developed use of land in the Township
comprising 3,820 acres.

II

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Map 1

END
LOW &amp; MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDE:NTIAL

PUBLIC &amp; SEMI- PUBLIC

HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL

AGRICULTURAL &amp; VACANT

COMMERCIAL

RECREATION &amp; CONSERVATION
STATE

INDUSTRIAL

RECREATION &amp; CONSERVATION
REGIONAL-LOCAL

EXISTING LAND USE
HAMBURG TOWNSHIP MASTER PLAN
4

AYRES. LEWIS, NORRIS &amp;

...,,,,,

Et«MNEERS

AACHrT'ECT8

MAY.

NC.

PLAMeAS

�High density residential includes all lands where single family residences are
located at a density of two to four dwelling units per acre. Medium and high
density residential comprises 1,880 acres.
Commercial includes all land and buildings where products, goods or services
are sold. Commercial uses comprise 210 acres.
Industrial includes all lands and buildings devoted to manufacturing,
processing, warehousing, and storage. Industrial uses comprise 160 acres.
Public and Semi-Public includes all lands and buildings devoted to governmental facilities, schools, churches and cemeteries, except recreation which
is separately classified. These uses comprise 165 acres.
State Recreation and Conservation includes all Brighton State Recreation
lands within the Township. State lands comprise 3,840 acres.
Local Recreation and Conservation includes Township owned and leased
recreational lands as wel I as privately owned recreation lands.
Local
recreation lands comprise 365 acres.
Agricultural and Vacant includes lands actively used for agricultural
purposes and lands not currently put to any active use. These lands comprise
I0,075 acres.
Water includes major water bodies and comprise 2,525 acres.
PATTERNS
Land use patterns in existence today were largely established during the first
thirty years of this century with the proliferation of cottage construction from
Ore Lake to Portage and Baseline Lakes. The greatest concentrations of medium
and high density residential uses are surrounding the lakes.
Much of this
development is located in subdivisions originally platted as recreational lots,
thirty to forty feet wide. The conversion of seasonal cottages to year round
residences has resulted in a more intensive use of land than was originally
intended.
14

�In recent years low density residential subdivison activity has increased in the
non-lake areas of the Township due to the lack of avai I able lakefront property and
the desire of people to live on larger tracts of land. Further, more stringent
health regulations have required larger lots to permit the use of on-site waste
disposal.
The predominance of state-owned lands in the northern one-third of the Township
has prevented the growth of residential development. The State lands serve as a
buffer between the expanding Brighton area and Hamburg.
Commercial uses are largely located in Hamburg Village and north of the Village
on M-36. Smaller clusters of commercial activities can be found on M-36 near
Buck Lake and Lakeland and on Pettysville Road in Pettysville. Industrial uses are
predominantly confined to the area in close proximity to M-36 near Hamburg
Village.
NEIGHBORING LAND USE
Land use patterns and decisions in Hamburg Township and neighboring units of
government have a degree of influence on one another. Land use in Township
areas surrounding Hamburg is predominantly low density residential, recreational,
agricultural, and vacant. The City of Brighton, bordering the northeast corner of
Hamburg Township, represents the most urbanized neighbor.
Hamburg's relationship with its neighbors will be closely tied to land use activities
along the major growth corridors linking Hamburg Township with neighboring
units. These corridors include M-36 West to Putnam Township, M-36 east to
Green Oak Township, and Brighton Road north to the City of Brighton. All units
of government should carefully weigh the impact on their neighbors of land use
decision within the major growth corridors.

15

�CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY

Evidence of the proliferation of single-family construction is provided by a review
of building permit activities.
From 1973 to 1979, the Township Building
Department · issued 1,232 bui (ding permits for single-family homes valued at
$50,247,679. This compares to 31 permits for commercial structures valued at
$1,227,644, 9 permits for industrial structures valued at $824,927, and 944 permits
for residential alterations valued at $4,576,739. The substantial number of
permits issued for alterations perhaps indicates that the process of converting
summer cottages is continued. The average value of single family construction
permits has risen steadily since 1972. A complete table of Township Building
Permit activity is located in the Appendix.

so
45

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16

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�POPULATION AND ECONOMY
POPULATION
TRENDS
The growth in population in Hamburg Township, as well as many of the surrounding
Townships, has been substantial since 1950 as shown in Figure 2. The growth rate
from 1950-1975 for Hamburg Township hos consistently been greater than the
total growth rate for Livingston County. The special census conducted in 1976
indicated Hamburg Township had 7,541 people, ranking it third in population
among all Livingston County municipalities.

•5,4YI

•

'7✓ 54/

CHARACTERISTICS
A review of the general characteristics of the population is important to assist in
determining future land use and community facility and service needs. The
following is a summarization of general population characteristics of Hamburg
Township compiled by the U.S. Bureau of the Census:
I.

The 1976 Special Census indicated that of a total population of 7,541,
3,870 or 51.3% were males and 3,671 or 48. 7% were female. Of the
total population, non-white residents numbered I07 or 1.4%.

2.

The distribution of population by age for 1970 and 1976 is shown in
Figure 3. While the distribution of population for each major group
(pre-school, school age, etc.) remained fairly constant from 1970 to
1976, closer examination of the more specific age groups reveals some
shifts in age distribution. In 1976, the age groups of under 5 years, 5-9
years, and I 0-14 years, showed a decrease. The age groups of 15-19
years, 20-24 years, 25-34 years, and 35-44 years all increased, with the
greatest proportional increase in the 25-34 and 35-44 age groups. Al I
age groups 45 years of age and older either declined in population or
remained stable.

17

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1970 1976

PtJFtJLAnON "J1&lt;ENO
CMAKr

�Figure 2
POPULATION TRENDS
Hamburg Township and Surrounding Areas, 1950 - 1975*
% Change

% Change

1960

50-60

1970

60-70

1975
Estimate

% Change

1950
HAMBURG TOWNSHIP

I, 713

3,189

86.0

5,481

71. 9

7,325

33.6

7,541

City of Brighton

1,861

2,282

22.6

2,457

7.7

3,241

31. 9

3,437

Brighton Township

1,645

2,875

74.7

5,882

104.6

8,109

37.9

8,396

Genoa Township

1,066

2,402

125.3

4,800

99.8

6,503

35 5

7,229

Green Oak Township

1,837

4,631

152.1

7,598

64.1

9,651

27.0

NA

26,725

38,233

43.1

58,967

54.2

77,859

32.0

NA

Livingston County

NA - Not Avai Iable
Source - U.S. Bureau of Census

18

70--75

1976-1977
Spec ia I Census

�Figure 3
POPULATION BY AGE GROUP
1970 and 1976
1970
Population

Percent
of Total

1976
Population

Percent
of Total

Group

Aqe

Pre-school

Under 5 yrs

475

8.7

613

8.1

615
649
469

11. 2

School Age

5-9
10-14
15-19

II. 8
8.6

729
839
691

9.7
II . I
9. 2

5-!9

I, 733

31.6

2,259

30.0

20-24
25-34
35-44
45-54
55-64

382
776
589
633
524

7.0
14.2
10.7
11. 5
9.6

537
1,326
914
794
616

7. I
17.6
12.1
10.5
8.2

20 64

2,904

53.0

4,187

55 . 5

65-74
75 and over

252
117

4.6
2. I

322
160

4 3
2.1

65 and over

369

6.7

482

6.4

Subtotal

Labor Force

Subtotal

Seniors
Suf)total
TOTAL
Source:

5,481

100.0%

U.S. Bureau of Census

19

7,541

100.0%

�3.

The educational attainment for persons 25 years and older in 1970 was
comparable to county and state averages.
Median school years
completed for Hamburg Township residents was 12.2 years, compared
with 12.2 years for Livingston County and 12.1 for the State of
Michigan.

4.

Of the 1970 population of 5,481, 982 people or 17.9% were of foreign
stock, that is, either foreign born or native born of foreign or mixed
parentage. Persons of Canadian, British, Polish and Czechoslovakian
descent comprise the largest proportion of the foreign stock.

5.

The estimated per capita income for 1969, 1972 and 1974 in Hamburg
Township remained above the averages for Livingston County and the
State of Michigan.

PROJECTIONS
The three factors which modify the population of an area are births, deaths, and
migration. The birth and death rate are factors over which local government can
exert the least control. However, in and out-migration are very much influenced
by the local economy, transportation accessibility, development policies and local
lending policies.
T_he_ i_nability to predict population growth with pinpoint accuracy does not
diminish the importance of projections as a guide to local decision-making. For
purposes of this plan, projections are used to assess the affect of growth on
cur~ent and desired conditions in the Township.
In this manner, population
proJections serve as a target of the desired level of growth the community can
bear :,Vithout harming the physical and social environment. The Township Master
Plan is formulated in response to meeting that desired level of growth.

20

�Several projection techniques were reviewed to determine which most accurately
depicted expected conditions in Hamburg Township. It was determined that the
population projections prepared for the Small Area Forecast Program by the
Southeastern Michigan Council of Governments (SEMCOG) would provide the most
useful guidance in projecting future population growth.
The SEMCOG Small Area Forecast Program produced six alternative population
projections, each based upon a different set of pol icy assumptions such as sewer
extensions, effective or ineffective local zoning and planning, environmental
protection programs, and the development of regional transportation programs. A
table located in the Appendix illustrates each alternative population projection
along with the 1990 and 2000 projections.
~fter evaluating the assumptions of all six alternative projections., Alternative
Six was judged to be the most reasonable for Hamburg Township. Alternative Six
promotes moderate conservation policies by making use of existing housing and
s~w~rs, and conserving sensitive lands. The population projected by Alternative
Six 1s 8905 by 1980, 12, I 02 by 1990, and 17,566 by the year 2000.
ECONOMY
TAX BASE
The _tax base of Hamburg has been largely dominated by residential land use. A
detailed table of assessed valuation is included in the Appendix. Residential
valuation has grown at a rate exceeding 30% annually and accounted for 96% of
th e tax base in 1979. Although commercial and industrial assessed valuations have
shown a steady growth, they have continued to provide a relatively minor portion
of the Towns hi p's tax base.

21

1471P

f'C,r'(JL,,4T10",I
P/?OJSCTI0}./:5

.2.COO

�EMPLOYMENT TYPE AND LOCATION
By and large, Hamburg Township can be considered a residential community for
people who work elsewhere. Commuting patterns indicate that nearly 65% of the
workers reporting their place of work in the 1970 census were employed outside
of Livingston County. Outside of Livingston County the major recipients of
the Hamburg work force were Ann Arbor, Washtenaw and Wayne Counties.
Hamburg Township is not without some local employment base.
A survey
conducted in 1978 identified 29 commercial and industrial enterprises employing a
total of 439 people. Accounting for 81 % of the total employment, the ten largest
employers in Hamburg Township include:
R&amp;B Manufacturing
Hoskins Manufacturing
Lakeland Golf and Country Club
Tri-Veyor
Progressive Metal
Homburg Screw Products
Breemon's Restaurant
Crest Tool
Pedersen's Hardware and Dairy Queen
Edelweiss Restaurant

WAsllrE/..J4W ;4m'1

co.

ArkX!r

DE.611/JATTOJ../

OF'

co1.1MorEK:5 F/«IM
lfAJ.,lf?;{J/?13 Tf)"-/NsttlP

�COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND SERVICES
Community facilities and services refer to those buildings, land, equipment and
activities owned and operated by the public or by the private sector for the
benefit of the community as a whole. Community facilities and services provided
for Hamburg Township residents were inventoried and their adequacy assessed.
The location of existing co~munity facilities are illustrated by Map 3 in the
Master Plan section of this document.
SCHOOLS
Hamburg Township is served by four school districts; Pinckney Community
Schools, Brighton Area Schools, Dexter Community Schools, and Howell Public
Schools. Pinckney Community Schools serve approximately 90% of the Township
while the other school systems cover smal I areas near the northern and southern
Township boundaries. Figure 4 provides comparative school district data in terms
of total enrollment, millage, facilities within Hamburg Township, and the State
e~ua!ized valuation within the Township devoted to each district. The School
districts do not determine how many of their students live in Hamburg Township.
The Pinckney school system currently has four schools in Hamburg Township. ~(
~ew elementary school was opened on M-36 near Whitewood Road. Recen 1/
1
mprov~ments to Pinckney High School included:
construction of an indoor
swimming pool and auditorium; addition of a second gymnasium; addition of 14
classrooms; and, expansion of the media center.
!he_ 14 additional classrooms for the high school will be adequate until 1982, yet it
is likely that additional space will still be needed to accommodate population
gro':"~h. Population trends and current facility capacities indicate a need for
additional high school space by 1990.
The Brig
· hton Area School system serves the Ore Lake area and the extreme
northeast portions of the Township. The Hamburg Township portion of the school
sy st em encompasses only a small portion of the entire district.

23

6ClfCK:JL DISTR/cr MAP
/2'.MI.BURG' lOWJ../611/P

A . /&gt;i11ckJ?t.fl Comrrru111JJ Schools

B . 1:&gt;r~!o11 Area uohqofs
C. Dw+er
S&lt;Ytools

CO/TV'n.G('11'/!:f

D . Howell Rl/:&gt;!,c 5chod.s

�Figure 4
SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITHIN HAMBURG TOWNSHIP
1978 Statistics

I

I
II

I

jl i
Valuation Within Hamburg Township*

Total School
System
Enrollment

Millage

Total Dollars

Pinckney Community
Schools

4,900

33.77

69,434 619

62.00%

Briqhton Area Schools

5,127

32.00

8,217,583

5.10%

Dexter Community
Schools

2,136

29.50

3,094 568

2.90%

Howell Public Schools

6,108

31.54

182,917

.09%

School District

*State Equalized Valuation
Source:

Information provided by School Districts and
compiled by Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; May, Inc

24

% of District

�A new elementary school located on Bauer Road just north of the Township line
was completed in the fall of 1978. Adjacent to this site, a new middle school was
scheduled for completion in 1979.
These new facilities will serve Hamburg
Township residents and provide adequate educational facilities until 1990. The
Brighton High School now has a capacity of approximately 1,600 students and this
figure will likely be reached by 1982. It is expected that expanded high school
facilities will be needed in the mid 1980's.
The Dexter Community School system serves the extreme southern portions of the
Township. Within its boundaries are approximately 70 homes with the most
intensive development occurring along Gallagher Lake.
Student enrollment has remained relatively steady within the school system.
Migrations into the district have been offset by the declining birth rate and as a
result of this there are no new facility development programs within the district.
Present facilities are adequate for existing enrollment and future development is
not expected to place unusual burdens on the existing facilities.
The Howell Public School system serves a sparsely populated area within the
Township. Except for a small portion of private land containing a few residences,
all of the area served by the district is within the Brighton State Recreation Area.
Currently many of the Howell Schools are on double shifts and there is a severe
probl.ern of overcrowding.
Accompanying this shortage of facilities is the
r~lat.1vely long bus riding time required for many students living within this school
district.
PARKS AND RECREATION
Park~ and recreational facilities are an important facet in the scheme of a
g~owi~g township. Parklands provide recreation opportunities, preserve scenic and
hi st oric values and protect environmentally sensitive areas. Planning for these
township parklands is especially important during the early developing phases
when lands are undisturbed and land costs for park acquisition are relatively low.

25

�The largest park and recreation space is the Brighton State Recreation Area
encompassing 3,840 acres within the Township.
With fishing and boating,
swimming, camping, horseback riding, picnicking, and hiking trails, the Recreation
Area must be considered a regional attraction serving southeastern Michigan. The
attraction of the recreational opportunities will have continuing effect on roads,
police and fire protection, and commerce within the Township.
The Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority has owned substantial acreage within
the Township scattered in individual parcels near the Huron River. Original plans
to develop the acreage have been abandoned and H.C.M.A. has proceeded to
dispose of this land for local recreational purposes.
Hamburg is currently purchasing Merrill Field, a 134-acre park site, from the
Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority.
The park acquisition received broad
community support when voters approved a one mill tax increase for purchase.
Merrill Field is currently limited to baseball/softball play with seven diamonds.
Th~ Township is also leasing a 180-acre parcel across the road from Merrill Field.
This tract is currently undeveloped as a recreational facility.
O~her recreational facilities within the Township include school district and
pn~~t~ly owned facilities. Pinckney High School has eight outdoor tennis courts,
facl11t1es for basketball, track, baseball and softball, and an indoor swimming pool.
Hamburg Elementary School has facilities for softball, basketball and football but
th ~ play areas are poorly maintained and are not of regulation size. The major
privately owned recreational facilities include:
Cobb's Marina (public lake access)
Rush Lake Hills Golf Club (public)
Lakeland Golf and Country Club (private)
Camp Talahi
Cordley Lake Day Camp
Livingston County Conservation Club

~~m~u~g

Township residents are fortunate to live in an area where rec_reational
kdis in abu~dant supply. The proximity of state lands and the predominance ~f
1
a efront residential properties satisfy the recreational needs of many Township

26

�residents. However, the competition for use of recreational facilities will likely
increase because existing recreational resources will continue to draw users from
beyond the boundaries of Hamburg Township. In addition, existing recreational
lands lack certain facilities to meet existing recreational needs. It is therefore
important for the Township to consrder providing expanded recreational facilities
for Township residents.
Many of the recreational deficiencies of the Township can be identified by age
groups. Play equipment, such as swings and slides, is largely unavailable for
younger children. There is also a need for additional organized activities for
school age children and young, middle aged and senior adults.
GOVERNMENT FACILITIES
The current Township government facilities include the Township Hall and the
Township Hall Annex located on Stone Street in Hamburg Village. The Township
Hal~ was constructed in 1947 by volunteer fire fighters. The ground floor houses
equipment and trucks while the second floor is a large meeting room.
The
meeting room presents some problems to handicapped persons and senior citizens
because of the second floor location. The Township Hall Annex is a converted
church in excess of one hundred years old. The Annex is used as office space for
IO P~ople including the Supervisor, Clerk, Treasurer, Building Department, Police
5t a!ion, and supportive staff. In general, the Township facilities lack adequate
office space, adequate and accessible meeting space, suitable sanitary facilities,
and adequate parking.
!he Hamburg Township Library, built behind the Township Hall Annex in 1967, has
heen a product of community participation and effort. The library is open 35
c~~rs per we~k and serves approximately 4,000 registered pa~rons, both adults and
. ildren. With a book collection of I 5,000 volumes, the library has an annual
circulation of 38,000 volumes. Membership in the Huron Valley Library system
greatly increases the availability of books through interlibrary loans.
The library was expanded to 2 506 square feet with an addition in 1975. There is a
~trent nee? for a meeting ro~m within the facility. Sharing the parking lot with
f e Township offices creates problems for Library visitors. Senior citizens who
requent the library find the parking situation especially critical.

27

�POLICE AND FIRE SERVICE
Hamburg Township is currently served by three police agencies. These agencies
are the Hamburg Township Police Department, Michigan State Police-Brighton
Post, and the Livingston County Sheriff Department.
While detailed crime statistics are not available for Hamburg Township, the
Livingston County Sheriff's Off ice reports that on a county wide basis crime has
significantly increased during recent years. From 1970-1977 minor offenses have
risen 142% while serious offenses have risen 129%. The figures reflect population
increases for the County and also reflect a general change from low density
agricultural setting to a more populated residential environment with associated
urban crime.
Har:iiburg Township created its own police department in 1979. Before that time,
police protection was contracted with the Livingston County Sheriff.
The
Township is currently staffing the Police Department to meet its protection
needs.

St ate and County agencies have attempted to expand staff and services but have
been limited by budgetary constraints and resultant manpower shortages. The
St ate Police Post services all of Livingston County and four Oakland County
T?wriships with an average of two police cars and four men per shift. The post
will n_ot likely increase manpower in future years because State Police officials
~e di_recti~g new manpower for their expanding urban posts in cities such as
etroit, Flint and Lansing. The County places three to five patrol cars throughout
th e County per shift.
The Hamburg Township Fire Department is highly unique in the fact it is privately
~;ned and ~perated by the fire fighters. Organized in 1946 and incorporated in
48 , t~e Fire Department has expanded its fire fighting capabilities, manpower
nd
a capital equipment in response to the growing needs of the Township.
The Department is staffed totally by volunteers including 30 regulars, 12
appre t ·
n ices, 12 retired members and a women's unit composed of from 15-20

28

;J

�wives of the regulars.
techniques.

All

volunteers are trained

in

modern fire fighting

The Township Hall which currently houses the Fire Department was built in 1947
by the volunteer fire fighters. The major pieces of fire fighting equipment now
include:
No. IOI - High Pressur~ Fog Rig - 750 gallon tank capacity and 800 lbs/sq
inch pumping capability
No. I 02 - Class A pumper - I 000 gallon tank capacity and 500 gpm pumping
capability
No. I 03 - Rescue and Grass Rig - 250 gallon tank capacity and 800 lbs/sq
inch pumping capability plus rescue equipment
No. 104 - Rescue and Grass/High Pressure Fog Rig - 300 gallon tank
capacity and 800 lbs/sq -inch pumping capability plus rescue equipment
No. 105 - Class A Pumper - l000 gallon tank capacity and l000 gpm pumping
capability
Six homes of regular fire fighters are equipped with phones to receive emergency
calls and all regular fire fighters are issued Plectron radio units. Upon receiving
a~ emergency call, the fire siren is triggered and the regular fire fighters are
a erted through the radio units. On the average, a truck will be on the road within
two minutes of receiving an emergency call.
ihe Fi~e Department finances operating and capttal costs by charging the
township $250 per fire call and $150 per emergency and rescue call. Responding
$~Oapproximately 120 calls per year, annual revenues range from $18,00~ ,OO0.
The Department has also entered in a mutual agreement with
surrounding communities to assist in responding to larger fires.

29

�The Fire Department has established a fine reputation for efficiency and
effectiveness. The response time to emergency and fire calls has been excellent
in spite of the large expanses of territory that must be covered from the current
location of the Fire Department.
The ability of the Fire Department to respond to future fire fighting needs is
highly related to levels and patterns of future growth. The current response time
from the Township Hall to the farthest point in the Township is 12-15 minutes. As
congestion increases on Hamburg roads, response time to all points in the
Township is likely to increase.
It is estimated that approximately one-third of the fire and emergency runs to
~re?s west of Lakeland. The accessibility to the western half of the Township is
limited by the Huron River. A s residential growth increases in the western half of
the Township, the incidence of fires and emergency calls will likely increase.
WATER, WASTEWATER, SOLID WASTE, AND UTILITIES
The sole means of water supply and wastewater disposal is through individual wells
and septic systems. The provision of public water supply is generally not a
problem due to the adequacy of groundwater resources, although the potential
contamination of groundwater remains a concern. The lack of a public sanitary
sewer system in the more developed portions of the Township wi II restrict future
?evelo~ment to land uses generating primarily domestic wastes. For example,
1ndustri~s generating a process waste would have difficulty receiving sanitary
wa st e disposal permits from County and State health authorities.
;he Federal Water Pollution Control Act Amendments of 1972 provides federal
~~s_to_ finance public sanitary sewer systems. Funding is limited to the solution
0
d xi st mg water pollution problems and may not be used to open up new areas for
ekelopment by providing sewers. It is possible that built up areas around the
1
a es and Hamburg Village may eventually be sewered.

30

�Until recently, the Township leased a private landfill for the disposal of solid
waste. When the landfill did not meet requirements of the Department of Natural
Resources, the Township was forced to seek other means of disposal and
proceeded with plans to construct a refuse transfer facility on five acres at
Merrill Field. The solid waste transfer station is classified as a Type I facility
designed to receive refuse from individual users and hand unloaded vehicles of not
more than 1/2 ton capacity. The trash is unloaded into a stationary compactor
which, when full, is hauled to a landfill for disposal of the compacted trash. The
transfer facility is expected to meet Hamburg's needs for a number of years.
Hamburg Township is serviced by the major public utilities of Southeastern
Michigan. Consumer's Power, Michigan Bell Telephone, and Detroit Edison all
have trunk lines and distribution systems within the Township.
There are
currently no restrictions or shortages for new residential users. Electrical output
and natural gas supplies have kept pace with new development. Detroit Edison is
currently upgrading the Hamburg Substation and increasing voltage from 4,800
volts to 13,000 volts. Consumer's Power does not have limitations on natural gas
us_es_ in new residential development, yet commercial and industrial users over 6.6
million BTU are subject to review by the utility. While utility supplies are
gen:rally available in adequate quantities, it should be noted that the dwindling
natio~al_ energy supply will force conservation and could conceivably place
restrictions on growth within the Township.

ROADS

~

Public roads within the Township are classified accordingly:
State route
Primary hard top
Local hard top
Primary gravel
Local gravel

~-

36

is a state route under the jurisdiction of the Michigan Department of
ansportation. Primary and local roads are maintained by the Livingston County

31

�Road Commission with the State Motor Vehicle Highway Fund matched by
Township funds.

M-36 links the communities of Pinckney, Pettysville, Lakeland, and Hamburg.
There is currently much concern over the safety and general conditions of M-36.
The rolling topography, sharp curves, and limited sight distances contribute to
difficult driving conditions, especially during adverse weather.
Complicating
these conditions are driving lanes which are 11 feet instead of 12 feet wide with
gravel shoulders along most of the road. Adjacent land uses and numerous primary
road intersections cause traffic flow restrictions and potential safety hazards.
The State of Michigan has no plans for improvements on M-36. While traffic
volumes average 5,000 Average Daily ·raffle (A.D.T.), this volume is well below
~he approximate 10,000 A.D.T. State officials require before considering
improvements.
Jhe Li~ings!on County Road Commission inventories local and primary roads and
ete~~ines if they are adequate or inadequate, based primarily upon road surface
conditions.
Other factors for evaluation are design capacity, safety and
surrounding land uses. Although road standards are variable according to urban
a~d rural use, terrain, vehicle type and many other factors, the road standards
a opted by the Livingston County Road Commission are outlined in Figure 5.
~igur~ 6_ provides a listing of primary and local hardtop roads along with a general
Resc~ipt,on of conditions. Chi Ison, Hamburg, Pettysvi I le and Strawberry Lake
0
. ~ s all have segments of inadequate road.
Hamburg Road is particularly
~? equate because of high traffic volumes, adjacent land uses and poor pavement.
h inans Lake Road is one of the busiest roads in the Township. In some areas it
a~d as traffic volume equalling M-36. Other roads with heavy use are McGregor
warthout.

~;~h~~

Lake Road is the only primary gravel road in Hamburg Township and
Part e~ acce~s to the Brighton State Recreation Area. Traffic volumes are
imm'c~ orly high during summer weekends and holidays. Although there are no
be P~v~~t~ plans for paving, D.N.R. and county officials feel that the road should
in the near future.

32

�Figure 5
TYPICAL ROAD ST AND ARDS FOR
LIVINGSTON COUNTY

Road Type

ADT*

Driving Lane

Shoulder

R.O.W.**

I I

I , 000-2, 000

12'

6" min

120

Local Hord Top

500-1 ,000

11'

6' min

120'

Primary Grovel

200-500

11'

6' min

120'

4' min
4' min

100'

Pr imary Hardtop

Local Grovel

200

11'

Local &amp; Subdivision

200

12'

*Average Daily Traffic
**Right-of-Way

Source:

Livingston County Road Commission
33

66 1

�Figure 6
PRIMARY AND LOCAL HARD TOP ROADWAYS*

Road Name

1976-1978
Average
Dail}:'. Traffic

Adeguate

Surface

lnadeguate

Total
Miles

I,

Primary Road
Chilson
8 Mile
Hamburg
Pettysv i 11 e
Shehan
Strawberry Lake
Whitewood

I .45
.94
1.00

, • 763
1,650
I , 625-3, 969
1,450
I, 531
1,092
I, 112

Prime
Mixed
Mixed
Prime
Prime
Prime
Prime

&amp; Seal
Bitum.
Bitum.
&amp; Seal
&amp; Seal
&amp; Seal
&amp; Seal

.89
2.10
I. 79

449
NA
NA
1,353
NA
NA
963
I ,320
1,862-4 . 597

Prime
Mixed
Mixed
Prime
Prime
Mixed
Prime
Prime
Prime

&amp; Seal
Bitum.
Bitum
&amp; Seal
&amp; Seal
Bitum.
&amp; Seal
&amp; Seal
&amp; Seal

1.44
.68
.71
2.46
.56
.35
1.00
2 38
2.11

2.53
3.84
2.18
1.99

3.98
.94
4 ,84
2. 18
.89
4 09
I. 79

Local Road
Cordley Lake
Hall Road
Hacker Road
McGregor
Pine Bluff
Pleasant Lake Dr.
Rush Lake
Swarthout
Winan's Lake

I 44
.68
.71
2.46
.56
.35
1.00
2.38
2. II

NA - Not available
Source:

livings-ton County Road Commission and adapted by Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; May'. In~•
Adequacy is based upon road safety, surface conditions, and alignment and is subJect1vely
determined by the Livingston County Road Commission.

34

,1

�Merrill Road is the most heavily travelled local gravel road in the Township.
Traffic is generated from recreation activities on Merrill Field and the linkage of
Strawberry Lake Road and M-36.
Local subdivision roads built in the I 920's and I 930's were not subject to County
approval. As a consequence, many of these roads serving lake frontages are very
narrow (nine foot lanes) and provide little right-of-way for improvements or
maintenance. New public roads are subject to Road Commission approval and
design standards.
Auto accidents occur more frequently on the major roads and intersections of the
Township. The entire length of M-36 is subject to frequent accidents due to the
high speeds and design inadequacies. Other high frequency accident areas include:
Hamburg Road
McGregor Road
Kress Road and the M-36 Intersection
Chi Ison and Bishop Lake Intersection
There are two major bridges in Hamburg Towns hip, both spanning the Huron River.
The M-36 bridge has been scheduled for widening to 40 feet to carry two lanes of
traffic with eight foot shoulders. The Winans Lake Road bridge was replaced in
1963 and has an expected life of another 60 years.
Future traffic patterns within the road network will be closely related to land use.
Because of this it is vitally important that road development be coordinated with
the overall plan for the Township. The most critical corridor is along M-36.
Car~ful consideration of land use planning, zoning and site development along this
corridor wi II insure a well coordinated traffic system and land use pattern.

35

,I

�NATURAL RESOURCE INVENTORY AND CAPABILITY
The natural environment of Hamburg Township offers both opportunities and
limitations on the type and extent of future development. Certain areas are
unsuitable for septic systems, unstable for building foundations, poorly drained,
and susceptible to flooding.
While these factors place restrictions upon
development, other natural resource factors present opportunities for development. The scenic and recreational attractiveness of the lakes, hills and woodlands
offer a unique residential setting. It is helpful to examine these natural resource
factors in detail to determine both the opportunities and constraints.
The
examination involves an inventory of resource factors, and a determination of the
capability of the natural resource base to support future development.

-

SOILS

In order to minimize construction costs and risks to the environment, it is
desireable for future development to be constructed upon sites with suitable soils.
P~or soils present problems such as poor foundation stability and septic field
failu:~· The three major soi I characteristics considered in the analysis of soi I
conditions are drainage, foundation stability and septic suitability characteristics.
Eac~ of these factors were inventoried and mapped according to information
prov!ded by the Livingston County Soil Survey, prepared by the Soil Conservation
Service.

DRAINAGE
~oil drainage characteristics are examined because of the potentially high
evelopment costs, maintenance costs and sanitary problems encountered on
00
rly drained soils. These costs and problems are often associated with septic
1d failures, flooded basements and susceptibility to frost action. Dense mucks,
1
~ t~, and clays with high water tables are the soils most often associated with
rainage problems.

f.

!f

36

�In general, poorly drained lands lie within the floodplains of the Huron River and
chain of lakes. Other areas include lands associated with Hay, Chilson, South Ore
and Horseshoe Creeks and the numerous small ponds or depressions throughout the
Township. Moderately drained and wel I drained soi Is consist of loamy sands which
allow the passage of water from surface layers to lower soi I depths. These areas
are sufficiently above the groundwater table to assist drainage and provide a
suitable foundation for construction.
FOUNDATION ST ABILITY
Shifting foundations, cracked walls, and cracked pavement and roadways are some
of the potential problems associated with foundation instability. These problems
often result in increased development and maintenance costs or, in extreme cases,
structural fai Iure.
~enerally, well-drained, coarse-textured soils provide the most suitable foundations. Soils with good or fair stability are located in the upland sections of the
Township. Poor soil stability occurs with soils containing large concentrations of
organic material, such as muck, silt and clay. The areas of poor soil stability are
concentrated in the low lying and poorly drained areas adjacent to lakes and
creek~. In those low lying areas the presence of water in and near the surface
contributes to frost heave, compression, shrinkage and swelling.
SEPTIC SUIT ABILITY
~ecaus: t~er_e. is no central wastewater collection system within H?mburg
Township, ind1v1dual _septic systems are the primary m_ea~s of wastew~ter disposal.
herefore, the location of septic systems on proper soils 1s extremely important.
Septic field failures are often the result of poor soil permeability, high water
table or excessive slope. Soils such as compacted clays and silts will not allow
wast~":'ater to percolate through the filtering layers of soil. A high water table
prohibits adequate filtering thereby allowing the sewage effluent to pollute the
roundwater supplies and contaminate residential wells, lakes and streams.
inally, excessive slope does not provide adequate time for percolation. Instead
;ast ew?ter will drain to the low end of the septic field and the filtering action of
e entire septic field will not be utilized.
37

�Areas of slight septic suitability are scattered throughout the Township, but are
predominantly in upland areas. Important areas of suitable soi Is are located near
the Village of Hamburg, southeast of Winans Lake and along the western portions
of M-36.
TOPOGRAPHY AND RELIEF
The surface geology of the Township was formed I 0,000 to 12,000 years ago when
glacial activity deposited rock, soil and large blocks of ice. The ice blocks
embedded within the soil eventually melted and left depressions which are today's
la~es. These lakes were connected by an outwash channel which is now the Huron
River and chain of lakes system.
Figure 7 illustrates a typical cross-section through the Township. The topographic
features of the area and the relative elevations of the Huron River, chain of lakes,
and the upland moraines to the north and south are depicted. Most of the
residential development within the Township is located within the lower
elevations. There is limited development at the higher elevations to the north and
to the south of the river corridor.
These uplands are I ikely to become an
attra~tion for future development because of the unique contrast to the flat
terrain of Southeastern Michigan.
~lope is an important development consideration associated with topograp~ic
eatures. Steep roadway grades, septic field failures, soil erosion and excavation
cost s are some of the difficulties associated with severe grades.
Areas of
e~tre~e slope have been mapped so that opportunities and constraints for
P tent1al development can be outlined.
~h~re are two major areas of extreme slope. These are the areas north of Winans
Ta e a~d _the area west of the Chi Ison lmpoundment. The remainder of the
ownship 1s generally flat to gently rolling with isolated areas· of severe or
::!erate slope.
Steep slopes will require sensitive. site pl?nni_ng pr_io~ to
d lopment. Care should be taken to insure that extensive grading 1s min1m1zed
an to insure that natural features such as vegetation, and top soil are protected.

38

�Figure 7

MA!vl/3URG TOU/Nvft/P
J./06- to !Scafe

5CHE'M477C ceoss-oeCTlO"I

oeve(oped Lowla.~~

i

I

.......

39

�WATER RESOURCES
Groundwater and surface water deposits are a vital resource within Hamburg
Township. Because there is no central water distribution system, residents must
rely upon individual wells for their water supply. The lakes and streams of the
Township are also an important resource because of the associated scenic and
recreational amenities.
It is therefore important that water resources be
protected and managed in a manner which would insure their quality and
availability for future use.
GROUNDWATER
Important factors in the evaluation of groundwater are the quantity and quality of
the water. Quantity or yield standards for a typical residential or commercial use
range from 7 gallons per minute to 20 gallons per minute. The geologic and
hydrologic features of the Township provide the residents with an average of 15
gallons per minute. This figure will vary upon location within the Township. More
whater appears to be available within the outwash channels of the central lowlands
tan :he upland moraines. However, water is generally available in sufficient
quantity and will not likely be a factor in limiting growth.
~ater quality is a more important factor than water availability. Water hardness,
~on content, salinity and septic field contamination are hazards encountered in
. arnburg Township. While hardness and salinity are minor problems, iron content
is common throughout the Township. A more important concern is septic field
contam!nation of well water supply. Because of the high water table and lack of
protective clay coverings over groundwater supplies, contamination of domestic
Water supply is a possibility. Although county health department records report
~~ documented occurrences of contamination to date, residents should be aware
at th e potential exists.
SURF ACE WATER
:~e inl?nd lakes and Huron River corridor are unique because of their residential
ractiveness and scenic amenties. Because of these attributes and the desire of

40

�residents for access to these water resources, the relationship between man and
his environment becomes extremely important.
Water pollution is a major
concern which jeopardizes the residential and recreational setting.
In 1977 the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments conducted an extensive
survey of water quality conditions of inland lakes. Nine Hamburg Township lakes
were sampled and, of these lakes, Rush, Winans and Bass Lakes were found to have
relatively good water quality.
Zukey, Bishop and Baseline were considered
moderate to poor while Ore and Strawberry Lakes were considered very poor.
An intensive biological survey of the Huron River was conducted by the Michigan
Department of Natural Resources in the summer of 1977. The purpose of the
study was to characterize water quality conditions by analyzing the biological
communities present. Findings of the study indicated that water quality was good
between Kent and Strawberry Lakes and excellent downstream of Baseline Lake.
The Huron River area in Hamburg Township has been designated as a "countryscenic" river under the Michigan Natural River Act 1970. The adoption of a
Natural River District by the Township in 1978 provides for the management of
the river corridor which will help protect water quality and aesthetic appeal in the
futu~e: Further, proper land management can improve the current water quality
con.dit1ons of Hamburg Township. Sources of pollution can be controlled through
dra~nage and runoff controls, septic field corrections, proper treatment of
sanitary wastes, land use planning, limitation of fertilizer applications, and action
by lake associations or residents.
Among the major creeks within the Township are Hay, Chilson, South Ore and
~orseshoe Creeks. Associated with the creeks is a corridor of adjacent wetlands.
he creeks and wetland are important for surface drainage, groundwater recharge
~nd "'.'ildlife habitat. Alteration of the creeks and wetlands can contribute to
lo~ding, poor water quality, insufficient water supply and loss of valuable wildlife
hab1tat.

41

�SENSITIVE ENVIRONMENT AL FEATURES
Besides soils, topography and hydrology, there are other natural resources which
influence future land use and development. Sensitive environmental features such
as flood plains, woodlands, fish and wildlife habitat, wetlands and scenic features
can present either constraints or opportunities for development.
FLOODPLAINS
A flood plain is the land area adjacent to a watercourse that is subject to flooding.
The designation of flood plains and the restriction of their development is a
measure designed to protect life, health and property. Federal and state laws
regulate encroachment, dredging and filling within flood plain areas. A detailed
delineation of flood plain areas within the Township has been prepared.
WOODLANDS
Approximately one-sixth of the total land area of the Township is wooded. One
half _of these areas are adjacent to the inland lakes or wetlands. Water tolerant
spe~ies such as ash, red maple, cottonwood, tamarack, willow, and sycamore are
typi&lt;:ally found. Where nature vegetation meets the water's edge, areas of unique
scenic resources and wildlife habitat are found.
Future development should be
planned in a manner protecting unique woodlands.
FISH AND WILDLIFE
The continued existence of fish and wildlife depends upon the maintenance of
ad~quate habitat. While some species can adapt to the pressures of urbanization,
~t ers cannot live in close proximity to humans. According to the Michigan
Tepart~ent of Natural Resources, existing wildlife populations for Hamburg
ownship are stable and unless prime habitat and cover areas are destroyed, the
Popul at·ions are expected to remain stable.
T~e inland lakes are especially good for fishing. Bass, pike, and bluegill are the
Primary species,
·
·
and an occasional
wal Ieye ·1s caug h t ·in th e H uron R'1ver •

42

�Wetlands adjacent to lakes are used as spawning areas for bass and pike.
Populations of Canada geese, ducks, songbirds, muskrat, mink, and raccoon are
also dependent upon these wetlands. Fox, squirrel, woodchuck, rabbit and deer are
the predominant mammals and are actively hunted within State lands in the
Brighton State Recreation Area and other private lands.
WETLANDS
While in the past wetlands were considered to be useless land, it is now realized
that they play a very important part in the hydrological and ecological systems.
In addition to providing fish and wildlife habitat, wetlands also maintain and
stabilize groundwater supplies, reduce the dangers of flooding and improve water
quality.
The largest wetlands are located adjacent to the Huron River and chain of lakes.
The areas north of Bass Lake and near Chi Ison Creek comprise some of the larger
wetlands within the Township. Other areas are found along Hay Creek, South Ore
Creek and the numerous kettle depressions scattered throughout the Township.
SCENIC FEATURES
The lakes, topography, vegetation and cultural resources are components in the
overall scenic attractiveness of the Township. Scenic vistas are places which
~!ford expansive views of Township visual resources. These are located on top of
ills and high elevations (north of Winans Lake) or along roadways (M-36 and other
1
ocal roads). Roadways are important visual corridors because they unfold a rapid
sequence of vistas. Lakes, trees, fields, homes, commercial enterprises and signs
or~ common sites which are presented to the roadside viewer. Like other ruralur 0~ areas the organization of the vistas is based upon the roadway. Homes,
r~tatl centers and other activities are located off these roads and too often the
vtwer is presented with a multitude of messages, signs, and symbols which are
~ t~~ associated with a strip development. Too many signs and establishments
~c. ing a sense of organization and purposeful design can become an offensive
s rip development. It is important that future planning efforts recognize the
~:~roll image or impression presented along M-36 and avoid potentially offensive
rip developments.

43

'I

I

I:

�Landmarks are important visual resources.
St. Stephen's Church, historical
structures, village centers, the Huron River and various lakes are visual landmarks
which lend an important character and identity to the Township. The cultural or
man built landmarks should be preserved and managed in a sensitive manner. New
development should compliment unique landmarks and should not detract from the
scenic vistas of Hamburg Township's lakes, hills and vegetation.
NATURAL RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT CAPABILITY
The detailed inventory of natural resources is most useful when interpreted to
determine the capabi I ity of the natural resource base to support development. By
guiding future development into the most capable areas, problems associated with
large scale grading, flood damage, foundation stability, poor drainage and septic
system failures can be avoided.
T~e resource factors considered included topography, floodplains, wetlands, and
s~ils (foundation stability, drainage, and septic suitability). Criteria illustrated in
Figure 8 were established for the various resource factors to determine which land
areas were most or least capable of supporting development.
!h~ !inal step in the development capability process was the mapping of the
1nd1 v1?~al natural resource capability criteria on transparent overlays.
By
combining the overlays, a composite development capability map was produced.
ihe development capability map is illustrated on Map 2. Dark areas are lands
c:ast. capable of supporting development while remaining Township lan_ds are
nsidered to be most capable of supporting development. As shown on this map,
g~n~ral patterns of land capabilities emerge. For example lands adjacent to the
c ain of lakes, the Huron River and Hay, Chilson and South Ore Creeks are
~enerally less capable of supporting development. Lands with a less restrictive
~velopment capability are scattered throughout the Township. Three major areas
0
. ~avorable land are located within the Township. The first area is located in the
tctity of Hamburg Village. Another area is located to the southeast of Winans
Na e, and a third area lies within the western portion of the Township along M-36.
eh~I st ructures bui It within these areas wi 11 pose few problems to development
W Ie p '
.
roJects proposed in areas outlined in the dark areas of the map w1'II require
1
c ose scrutinization and sensitive site design.

44

�Figure

8

NATURAL RESOURCES CAPABILITY MAP PROCESS
Least Capable Criteria

Most Capable Criteria

Areas with grades I
greater than 13%

\

'

I

Areas with grades
less than I 3%

Areas within the
Areas not susceptible
I00-year flood boundary _ _ _ _ _ _,.
to flooding
Wetland areas _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Areas which are
not wetlands
Areas of poor
soil stability

having good or
--------· Areas
fair soil stability

Areas of poor soil
Areas having moderatedrainage
•------~drained or well-drained soils
Areas of severe septic
Areas with few septic
limitations
_ _ _ _ _ _.,..
field limitations
Areas most capable
of supporting
development

Areas least capable
of supporting
development

45

�·-1:1
¾d1
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./

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Map 2

LAND AREAS MOST

LAND CAPABILITY MAP

CAPABLE OF SUPPORTING DEVELOPMENT

HAMBURG TOWNSHIP MASTER PLAN
LAND AREAS LEAST
CAPABLE OF SUPPORTING DEVELOPMENT

4

~

AYRES. LEWIS. NORRIS &amp;
ENGINEl!RS

ARCHITECTS

MAY. INC.
PLANNERS

�I

I
I
I

Master Plan

�MASTER PLAN
PLANNING APPROACH
The approach taken in the development of the Master Plan is tailored to meet the
needs of Hamburg Township. The greatest asset of the Township is a highly unique
natural resource base set in a rural atmosphere.
Within the area encompassed by Hamburg Township, there is sufficient space to
accommodate large numbers of people and housing.
However, the effect of
unrestrained growth on community life styles, natural resources and community
facilities and services could be potentially devastating.
The Master Plan emphasizes the proper use and management of the Township's
nat~ral and man-made resources in an effort to maintain and improve the qua I ity
~f life for residents. Thus, the plan is based highly upon community goals, existing
_u~e patterns, and the capability of the natural resource base and community
acilit1es and services to accommodate future development.

t~

The Master Plan is designed to accommodate a reasonable level of population
gr~;th. SEMCOG Alternative Six, which predicts a l 990 population of 12, I 02 and
~uf/? population of 17,566, is used as a guideline for future population growth.
t icient land areas with capable natural and man-made resources are available
d? accommodate the projected level of population growth. The Master Plan
irects future development into the most capable areas.

/'L4/.IN/NC:t A/eEA MAP
JIAM.BU~G 'JOW/2611/P

i

A.

0

ass~~t
1 (n the description of the proposals set forth in the Master Plan, Hamburg
A;wns P is divided into five Planning Areas: Hamburg Village Area, Lower Lakes
of~~ ~pper_ Lakes Area, Rush Lake Area and State Lands Area_. The_boun~ar_ies
land
Janning Areas were determined by a number of factors including existing
use and physical man-made features.

47

···.;;;....:.4..,•..

Sfafe Land:s

b•

f?..t.15'7 Lake,

C.

Z/,P;&gt;e-t, ~

O. Lower~
B . flam bu":g Vitta3e,

�COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS PLAN
The Community Facilities and Transportation Improvements Plan is shown in Map
3. As Hamburg Township continues to grow and the characteristics of the
population changes, the demand for improved facilities and services will increase.
The efficient and economical delivery of services will continue to be a concern to
Hamburg Township residents.
By assessing current and expected needs of
Tow~ship residents and evaluating land use patterns, the necessary facilities and
s~rv,ces can be planned. Planning for the proper location of community facilities
will lead toward the most efficient use of tax dollars and delivery of services.
SCHOOLS

~

~ch_ools_ ~lay an important role in the physical development of a community. The
es,rabd,ty of Hamburg Township as a place to reside is greatly influenced by the
~dequacy
of schools. Although the responsibility for schools lies with local school
rd
boa s, the Master Plan can provide guidance by illustrating the relationship
.e~ween
future facilities.
land use patterns and population distribution and the location and
s,z,ng
of school
~~tu~e Township population growth and land use patterns will primarily affect the
,~;~ ney
th and Brighton School Districts. Population projections indicate that by
ag ' e largest increases in school age populations wi II be within the high school
/ groups.
The increases are primarily due to the heavy in-migration of
ementary and middle school groups.
nd
ed high school facilities will be needed by the mid l980's in both the
at iin:e{ and ~righton Sch~ol Districts. The expansion program being ~n?~rtak~n
ben d ney High School will be adequate until 1982, yet expanded facil1t1es will
accoee ed to accommodate future growth. It is likely that expansion plans can be
mrnodated at existing Pinckney and Brighton High School sites.

~!~

48

�~Ji
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f

i
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I

- - __J_ - -·· - · .,.,.,.

Map 3

COMMUNITY FACILITIES
&amp; TRANSPORTATION PLAN

PROPOSED AUTO ROUTES
INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS

0 0000

NON-MOTORIZED TRAIL
PROPOSED FIRE STATION

HAMBURG TOWNSHIP MASTER PLAN
4

AYRES, LEWIS. NORRIS &amp;

..,,,,,,,,,

ENGINEERS

•

ARCHITECTS

•

MAY.

INC,

PLANNERS

~

�Elementary schools have traditionally played an important role as centers of
community activity. Unfortunately, low density development has required the
extensive use of bussing and reduced the importance of the elementary schools
serving Hamburg Township.

As discussed earlier, there is a significant relationship between land use patterns
and the location of new schools and vice versa. In this regard, the fol lowing
recommendations are made:

I.

Every effort should be made to locate new elementary schools in areas of
concentrated development to enhance the school's position as a neighborhood
focal point. Hamburg Elementary is well located from this standpoint.

2.

It appears that high school facilities wi II be expanded at their current
locations. New middle school facilities, if necessary, should be located in
relation to population and travel time since bussing time and costs are of
paramount importance.

3,

Schools should be accessible from but not located on major roads, such as M36. Students, especially those in elementary school, should not have to cross
heavily travelled roads when walking to school.

4.

The Planning Commission, in consultation with the School Boards, should
consider requiring large-scale residential subdivisions to set aside adequate
space for new schools.

~S

AND RECREATION

The acq ·1 ·t·
•
R
d _u s1 ion of Merrill Field and the lease of the HCMA property across Merrill
d~a will prove to be a tremendous asset. It is recommended that Merrill Field be
I
sevt~ oped into a Township Center, a concept that is further explained in the next
c ion.
For rec
t·
corn
rea ional purposes, Merrill Field has the potential for development as a
I
and fhete community park. Besides the existing seven baseball/softball diamonds
e two football fields, future development will include:

50

�-

two additional 60 foot softball diamonds
lighting fixtures for two diamonds
restroom and concession foci I ities
parking for 200 cars
two regulation tennis courts
facilities for horseshoes and shuffleboard
picnic shelter and picnic grounds
winter sledding area
trai Is and nature areas

The trail proposed by the Department of Natural Resources along the abandoned
Grand Trunk Roi !road right-of-way could offer tremendous recreational potential
r,0 _Hamburg Township. However, the concerns regarding the security of residents
I1
~ ng along the trail are valid. The Township should not support development of
th1
s trail which would encourage activities other than hiking, jogging, bicycling or
~ross~country skiing. The Township could extend the trail eastward from its
errn_inus at Lakeland past Merrill Field to Hamburg Village. This would provide a
continuous non-motorized link from the western portion of the Township to the
6~oposed Merrill Road Township Center as well as Hamburg Village. Additional
ikeways, hiking trails and bridle paths from outlying portions of the Township
~ould be connected to the proposed trail thereby connecting schools, residential
eveloprnents and commercial areas.

l~re

is ~ need for neighborhood parks for younger children. School playgrounds
~ha ~rtion of the void but are largely inaccessible to the majority of children.
e _Policy of requiring the provision of park space in new subdivisions should be
~~:~n_ued.
Efforts should be made to acquire neighborhood park land in
Lake lished areas such a_s Hamburg Village, Lakeland, Ore Lake, Buck ~a~e, Rush
and Portage-Baseline Lakes. Neighborhood parks should be a m1n1mum of
0
ne acre in size and contain playground equipment and play areas.
The acq . 't•
.
full dev uisi ion of additional larger community parks would_ be costly. W1~~ !he
Will be ~lo~ment of Merrill Field, Township funds for recreational land acqu1s1t1on
36 • lirn_ited. However, a large wooded tract east of McGregor and south of MTheis a uniq~e property that is worthy of either public or private preservation.
cons·dconversion
of the old landfill to a recreational facility may also be
1 ered.

51

'1

I

�GOVERNMENT FACILITIES
The existing Township offices present many problems due to inadequate office and
meeting space, sanitary facilities and adequate parking.
As the Township
continues to grow, the need for a new Township Hall will become increasingly
apparent .
!n addition to development as a community park, Merri II Field would provide an
ideal site for a Township Center. Development of a Township Center would
consolidate a number of community activities at one location, thereby serving as a
focal point for Township activities in much the same manner as the existing
Township facilities function.
Included in the Township Center would be Township offices, library facilities,
community meeting hall, police facilities, senior citizen activity center, and
~dequate parking. The location of the Center at Merrill Field would be accessible
rom al.I areas of the Township and would provide the necessary security for the
recreation facilities.
iJhe existing Township Hall could continue to be used as a fire station. The second
oor could be converted to living quarters for firefighters. The Township annex
could
conceivably be turned over to a local historical group for use as a Township
museum.

~AND FIRE SERVICE
Jhe I0continuing influx of high value residential, commercial and industrial
P.ment into Hamburg Township will increase the demand for expanded police
~ct~on. Standards for police protection suggest I to 2 police officers per 1000
9°fou ,ation. This standard would indicate the need for 6 to 12 o'.ficers .b?'. 1990 ~nd
could by th~ year 2000. There will be a need for expanded police facil1t1es which
e provided at the Township Center.

/°/v;

t

52

�Since its formation in 1946, the Hamburg Township Fire Department has provided
excellent fire protection service. There is no need to tamper with a successful
~ystem of fire protection. However, similar to police protection, urbanization will
increase the need for increased fire protection. This necessity will increase with
the addition of new industry to Hamburg Township.
It is recommended that the Fire Department consider the addition of a full time,
P.aid '.ire Chief to coordinate all activities of the Department as well as conduct
fire inspections and investigations. The intent is not to dilute the volunteer
concept but to strengthen the Department's ability to respond to changing
conditions.
;tre is ev(dence of the need to locate a fire substation in the we~tern portion '?f
/ T.ownsh1p. A recommended location is along M-36 near Pettysville Road. This
1fcation would reduce response time to the Rush Lake Area and the western half
0
the lower lakes, upper lakes, and State lands areas.

mER, WASTEWATER, AND SOLID WASTE
~ue to the availability of groundwater resources, the need for public water supply
is ~ot cr.itical in the near future. However, the combination of individual wells
°': hseptic systems could be hazardous in some parts of the Township. Residents
~t. shallow wel Is should be aware of potential septic system contamination of
eir Water supply.

The need. f or ·improved wastewater disposal appears to be a more pressing
·
in
concern
co~;.r~atn areas of the Township. Existing population densities, natural resource
irn tttons and land use in the upper and lower lakes and Hamburg areas warrant
pt~Ved means of wastewater disposal. The following are recommended as
ority areas for improvements:

53

�M

I.

In the upper lakes area, Ore Lake is one of the most densely populated areas
of Hamburg Township. The land resource capability surrounding Ore Lake
indicates it is an area least capable of supporting development.

l,

Zukey, Strawberry, Portage and Baseline Lakes are considered priority areas
in the lower lakes area. These lakes are densely populated and have natural
resource conditions least capable of supporting development. Water quality
conditions in Zukey and Baseline Lakes were considered moderate to poor
and Ore and Strawberry Lakes were considered poor in the 1977 water
quality study conducted by the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments.

3,

Hamburg Village is considered the final priority area.
The existing
commercial and industrial concentrations along M-36 warrant consideration
for public sewering. The addition of future industry will be contingent upon
the availability of public sewers.

A~imPortant consideration in the sewer issue is the effect sewers have on growth
an _development in the sewer service area.
The extension of sewers into
previou~ly unsewered areas must be accompanied by a land use plan and
(ulations to direct growth into areas most capable of accommodating
~;lopment. The Master Plan, if properly implemented, provides sufficient
901
once so that sewers may be provided in the priority areas without encouraging
new growth that would have a long-term damaging effect on the Township.
~lt~~ugh the appropriate steps have been taken to handle the solid waste disposal
in\tns, the Township role in solid waste management will be likely to increase
M e future. The State of Michigan has recently enacted the Solid Waste
pl~nog;ment Act which requires the prepartion of county solid waste manageme~t
lhi~sl ef~re July 1, 1981. It is important that the Township seek involvement 1n
Panning process.

54

�TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS
The purpose of the Township road network is to provide for the safe and efficient
movement of people and goods within and through the Township. Adequate roads
are essential to the conduct of commerce and daily human activities.
The
automobile will continue to be the dominant mode of transportation due to
scattered land use patterns and population densities and personal preferences.
However, energy availability and cost will make non-motorized transportation
more attractive, a factor that must be considered in future planning.
There exists a strong interrelationship between the road system and land use
patterns. The type and pattern of land use wi 11 strong I y influence traffic volumes
al~ng a given road. Likewise, the adequacy of a road may determine the type of
adjacent land development that occurs. Therefore, future road improvements
recommended in the Master Plan are based on the adequacy of the existing roads
&lt;rid existing and future land use patterns.
The following transportation improvements are recommended:

I.

~ - Although a comprehensive widening and improvement program of M36 is viewed as justified by Township officials, the Michigan Department of
5t ate Highways and Transportation has no such plans.
changes could be made to improve conditions:

Several incremental

Construction of a bypass to alleviate pressure on the stretch of M-36
from the flashing light north of Hamburg Village past the commercial
strip to where the curve is intersected by Hamburg Road.
In lieu of the costly construction of a bypass, reconstruction of the
Hamburg Road intersection to provide for a three-way stop.
Reconstruction of the Merrill Road intersection and road bank removal
to provide for better sight distance and safer access to Merrill Road.

55

�I

Construction of turning lanes at the Chi Ison Road, Kress Road,
Pettysville Road and McGregor Road.

I

I

1

i'I'
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I'

Construction of a service drive at the rear of M-36 businesses near
Hamburg Village. (More fully discussed in the Land Use Plan.)

2.

Merrill Road - In conjunction with improvements planned for Merrill Field,
Merrill Road should be hard surfaced from M-36 to Strawberry Lake Road
and the grade and intersection at Strawberry Lake Road improved.

3.

Bishop Road - Due to high traffic volumes during summer months, Bishop
Road should be hard surfaced from Chilson Road to Hamburg Road. Since
traffic volumes are generated almost solely by the Brighton State
Recreation Area, the project should be undertaken and funded by the State
of Michigan.

4.

'5.

~iscellaneous Road Improvements - Portions of Chi Ison, Hamburg, Pettysvllle and Strawberry Lake Roads are judged inadequate by the Road
Commission but no locations are specified. A survey of these roads should
be undertaken to determine inadequacies.
~n-rnotorized Transportation Improvements - The Jackson to Lakeland trail
could provide a non-motorized transportation route linking the western and
eas~ern portion of the Township. However, the Township should encourage a
design concept which protects the security of Township residents, discourages motorized use, and encourages non-motorized use.
The Township
s~ou!d encourage the development of additional bike and pedestrian-ways
wh1th1 n new subdivisions for potential linkage with a major system throughout
t e Township.

56

�IMPLEMENTATION RECOMMENDATIONS

I.

2.

3.

4,

Section IO of the Township Planning Act, P.A. 168 of 1959, states that upon
adoption of a plan, the Planning Commission shall have the authority to
approve the location, character and extent of any street, square, park or
other public way, ground or open space, or public building or structure
proposed to be located within the Township. This authority applies not only
to Township projects but to action proposed by other public bodies. The
action of the Planning Commission can be overruled by a majority vote of all
Township Board members or by resolution of the governing board of the
public body submitting the proposed project.
The Township's role in providing and financing community facilities will
undoubtedly increase in the future. An orderly procedure for planning and
financing Township community facilities can be achieved through the
adoption of a Capital Improvements Program (CIP). The CIP is a long-range
schedule of projects developed for a five-year period and contains estimated
costs, and sources of funding. The CIP should be updated annually and
presented at the Township annual meeting.
Development of the Township Center with expanded recreational facilities,
n_ew Township offices, a community and senior citizens center, and expanded
library facilities would fulfill immediate Township needs. Further study
should be initiated regarding proposed facilities and estimated costs. Full
development of the Township Center may require outside sources of funding.
The highest priority for road improvement is M-36.
The Planning
0
mm_ission should form a study committee to evaluate the :riteria
st
. ablished by the Department of State Highways and Transportation for
~rnprovement of M-36. Alternative sources of funding improvements should
Me s~udied. High priority locally funded road projects are the paving of
Rernlf Road and improvement of intersections at M-36 and Strawberry Lake
00
~Immediate consideration should be given to the construction of a
~rvi_ce drive at the rear of the businesses on M-36 near Hamburg Village.
e _implementation of this concept is discussed more extensively in the next
section.
;

57

II

�5.

One of the greatest obstacles to overcome in the location of new school
facilities is the apparent lack of coordination between School Boards and the
Township Planning Commission. Annual meetings between these bodies
should be scheduled to discuss Township growth patterns and the impact on
school facilities.

6.

The Township Board should consider establishing an ad hoc Public Safety
Committee to review Township needs for police and fire protection.
Immediate attention should be given to the location of a fire substation in
the western portion of the Township.

58

�LAND USE PLAN
The Land Use Plan depicted in Map 4 serves to translate Community Goals into a
narrative and graphic illustration. It is based largely upon existing land use
patterns, natural resource capability and adequacy of community facilities and
services.
The Land Use Plan Map is not intended to serve as a Zoning Map nor dictate the
use of individual parcels of property. As a generalized guide to the location of
growth and development, the Plan can serve as the basis for future zoning
decisions such as rezoning requests and the issuance of special use permits. The
Pion can also aid private individuals in finding suitable locations for proposed
developments.
hQCATION ST AND ARDS
The following location standards for each major type of land use were used in
developing the Land Use Plan. The residential densities that are indicated are to
serve as a guide to overall densities within the various areas provided.
Low density rural residential is planned for land areas least capable of
supporting development, difficult to serve with community facilities, or
reserved for residential development beyond the year 2000. Within this
area, single family residences should be developed at one dwelling unit per
two acres.
However, the overall density of this area should be kept
relatively low.
The provision of low density rural residential will lead
toward the preservation of open space and the rural atmosphere of Hamburg
Township.
M.:di~m density residential is intended for areas including and adjacent to
exi~trng low density residential areas and certain undeveloped land areas
whi~h are least capable of supporting development at higher densities.
Medium density residential provides for single-family residences at a density
of one dwelling unit per acre.

59

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INDUSTRIAL

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PUBLIC &amp; SEMI-PUBLIC

[2;3]

NATURAL RIVER - RESIDENTIAL

f·-·-·-·l

RECREATION &amp; CONSERVATION
STATE

~

RECREATION &amp; CONSERVATION
REGIONAL - LOCAL

LAND USE PLAN
HAMBURG TOWNSHIP MASTER PLAN
....
~

AYRES. LEWIS. NORRIS &amp;
ENGINEERS

ARCHITEC TS

MAY,

INC.

PLANNERS

�High density and Multiple family residential are intended for areas including
and adjacent to existing medium density residential areas, capable of
supporting development at higher densities, and located in close proximity to
community facilities, service, transportation routes, and commercial areas.
High density provides for single and two-family residences at two dwelling
units per acre. Multiple family residential densities will vary depending
upon on-site wastewater disposal and water supply regulations, but will
generally be four dwelling units per acre.
Natural river residential is located within the Huron Natural River District,
as established by Huron River Management Plan adopted by the Natural
Resources Commission.
Commercial areas are intended to maintain and, in certain cases, expand
existing commercial areas where population densities dictate. However,
strip commercial development along M-36 is to be discouraged.
Industrial areas are contained to the larger existing indus-trial areas. These
areas are relatively isolated from residential areas and can be provided with
existing and planned community facilities and services.
~NNING STRATE GIES
The allocation of proposed land use for the Township as a whole is depicted by
~ategory in Figure 9. The amount of land devoted to residential land use will
Leterrnine future population. The extent of residential land use proposed by the
Use Plan will provide for a population of approximately 17,566 by the year
2

3~t

61

�Figure 9
PROPOSED LAND USE
Land Use
Total Acreage

Residential
Low Density Rural Residential
Medium Density
High Density
Multiple fomily
Commercial

9.650
5,055
680
140
250

lnciustrial

180

Public and Semi-Public

180
Recreation and Conservation
State
Local and Regional

3,840
545

Water

2,520
Total

Prepared by Avres, Lewis, Norris and May, Inc.

62

23,040

�Figure 10 illustrates residential land use and the subsequent population by
Planning Area. The residential land use acreages and densities represent the
upper limit which should be permitted within each Planning Area. Figure I 0, in
conjunction with the Land Use Plan, should be used as a growth management tool.
By regularly monitoring residential land use, the Township can ensure that
population projections, al located by Planning Area, are not exceeded.
For
example, as the amount of high density residential approaches 680 acres within
the Hamburg Planning Area, the Township should act to limit additional units.
The Land Use Plan allows for the concentration of development in areas with a
capable resource base and adequate community facilities and the reduction of
densities in areas not capable of supporting development. To preserve the rural
character of the Township and reduce the cost of providing services, the Plan
promotes very low residential densities in currently undeveloped areas in the
northern, southern and western portions of the Township. A vigilant policy of
concentrating growth in the appropriate areas will lead toward easing developmental pressures in areas which are not capable of supporting development or
should be preserved for very low density development. More specific planning
st rategies are discussed by Planning Area in the remainder of this section.
The Hamburg Village Area has historically been a center of governmental, social
and commercial activity. It is the area of closest proximity to U.S. 23 and the
metropolitan Detroit area. Further, the Village has a large proportion of land
capable of supporting development.
rhe Land Use Plan calls for the continuation and enhancement of Hamburg Village
Crea as the primary center of community activity. Development of the Township
enter at Merrill Field will relocate the center of community activities but should
not d~tract fr~m the overall objective for this area. A concentration of medium
~nd high ?ensity residential, multiple family residential, commercial and industrial
f?nd use in this area will be more easily served in the future by schools, police and
ire protection, utilities, and other community services.

63

�I
Figure 10
PROPOSED RESIDENTIAL LAND USE
BY PLANNING AREA
Planning Area
Homburg
LD
MD
HD
MF

Gross Acreage

Net Acreage

No. of Units

Population

480
380
680
140

36
285
510
105

18
285
1020
420

56
884
3162
1302

Subtotal

5404

Lower Lakes

Lb

3980
2385

MD

398
1789

199
1789

Subtotal

617
5546
6163

Up~r Lakes

lo

2175
1625

MD

218
1220

109
1220

Subtotal

338
3782
4120

Rush Lake

lo
MD

1985
665

199
500

100
500

310
1550
1860

1030

103

52

_J_g)
160

Subtotal
State Lands
LO
Subtotal
TOTAL

LO
MD
HD
MF

Low Density Residential and Reserve ( I unit/2 acres)
Medium Density (I unit/acre)
High Density (2 units/acre)
Multiple Family (4 units/acre)

Net Acreage

Population

17,707

Gross acreage minus acreage allocated to streets, utilities, other improvements and unbui ldable area. In MD, HD, and MF net acreage is assumed to
be 75% of gross acreage. In LD net acreage is assumed to be I 0% of gross
acreage due to overall lower densities, proximity to urban concentrations,
and unbui ldoble orea.
Based upon number of units x 3. IO persons per unit (SEMCOG Alternative
Six)

Prepared by Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; Moy, Inc.

L

64

�Although residential development is concentrated in this area, it is important that
some areas be maintained in low density residential and reserve.
Existing
industrial areas will probably not expand without public sewers. The Township
should consider developing the area north of and east of M-36 as an industrial
park.
Existing commercial areas are maintained but the extension of strip
commercial development along M-36 is strongly discouraged. The commercial
area along M-36 could be greatly improved by the construction of a service drive
at the rear of the existing commercial uses. The advantages of a service drive
would be to reduce congestion along M-36 by eliminating the multitude of curb
cuts, allow for the landscaping and beautification of M-36 commercial frontage,
open the interior of the area for commercial development, and enhance the area
as a center for community commercial activity.
Th~ Lower Lakes Area and the Upper Lakes Area will continue largely as
residential areas very closely tied to lake waterfronts. To minimize pressures on
the lakes, overall residential densities should be kept as low as possible. Currently
und:veloped areas which are not capable of supporting development are
?esignated as very low density residential and reserve. This is especially critical
in_ ~lose proximity to the lakes where individual septic systems and wells are
utilized. To maintain open space and rural character, areas south of Strawberry
Lake Road, and north of Ore Lake should be held in reserve or developed at low
densities.
~~di~m density residential development is contained to existing developed areas.
pxisting densities are medium to high around Ore, Buck, Strawberry, Zukey,
ortage and Baseline Lakes. In areas with medium to high densities that are not
ca~able of supporting such development, overall densities can be reduced through
~aintaining vacant areas or requiring that they be developed at lower densities.
urther, the replacement of dilapidated structures on small lots should not be
encouraged.
Exi st ing commercial areas at Buck Lake and Lakeland are retained, while the
cornm enca
· I area at Chilson Road and M-36
'
·
·
is expanded. The extension
o f strip
cornmercial development is strongly discouraged.

65

�Concentrations of medium density residential, commercial and public land uses
will enhance the Rush Lake Area as a secondary center of community activity.
The proximity to schools and the Village of Pinckney coupled with a capable
resource base makes the area north of M-36 and west of Pettysville Road very
attractive for more intensive residential development.
Expanded commercial
activity should be provided near Pettysville Road and M-36 to serve the additional
population. Areas north of Rush Lake Road and west of Pettysville are to be held
in reserve or developed at very low densities.
Within the State Lands Area, the Land Use Plan designated privately-owned lands
as very low density residential and reserve. The proximity to the Brighton State
Recreation Area and the lack of accessibility to community facilities and services
make the area inappropriate for any higher density development now and well into
the future.
~TURAL RESOURCE STRATEGIES
Throughout this document, the importance of the natural resource base has been
e~phasized. The correlation of land use density to natural resource capability
will help promote preservation of natural amenities. However, the Master Plan
~ust address the quality as wel I as the quantity of land use within the Township.
: 0 ~mitment to protection of Township resources will require the adoption of
policies directed toward the following specific resource problems:

I.

Drainage - The increase in development activity will place additional burden
on existing natural drainage systems unless preventive measures are
adopted.
The overtaxing of drainage systems could lead to localized
flooding, environmental damage, and costly storm drainage improvements to
be borne by taxpayers.
By prompting the preservation of natural drainageways and providing
stormwater retention basins, the impact of development upon drainage
systems can be minimized.
Although the County Drain Commissioner
approves drainage plans for new subdivision plats, the Township should adopt
more stringent drainage standards for not only subdivisions but also other
development activity under their authority.

66

�2.

Floodplains - It is undeniable that the majority of Township residents live
within a floodplain. Any attempt to eliminate existing floodplain development will continue to be met with resistance by Township residents.
However, realistic regulations can be developed which are consistent with
the existing situation in Hamburg Township.
The adoption of regulations should not render the floodplain useless. Within
the floodplain there are varying degrees of hazard which require different
regulatory treatment. The floodway is that portion of the floodplain which
directly adjoins the stream channel and endures frequent flooding and strong
currents. The f loodway is an inappropriate area for permanent construction,
especially designed for human habitation. However, the area within the
floodplain but outside the floodway serves as a backwater storage area and
may be developed provided structures are elevated above the flood level or
f loodproof ed.
Township policies toward floodplain regulations should: (a) recognize the
difference between the f loodway and the remainder of the floodplain; (b)
prevent future development within the floodway; and (c) require future nonfloodway floodplain development to be elevated or floodproofed.

3.

Surface and Groundwater Qua I ity - Many of the activities affecting water
quality in the Township such as the Brighton and Northfield Sewage
Treatment Plants occur outside of the jurisdiction of Hamburg Township.
However, there is much that can be done within Township boundaries to
maintain and improve surface and groundwater quality.
Many natural conditions influence the quality of groundwater. However,
groundwater may become contaminated by the improper disposal of
Surface water quality is
poll utan ts into the groundwater reservoir.
influenced by:

67

i:::--- - 7 ~
zz~,

.., ;;,:

,, "

"

I

11
I

�a.

activities within the lake or river such as swimming, boating, waterfowl population, etc. Impacts of these activities are generally shortterm in nature.

b.

activities within the watershed, such as construction, agricultural
management practices, and septic system functioning. Surface runoff
within the watershed carries fertilizers, pesticides, soil particles,
animal waste and other debris into surface waters. Impacts of these
land use activities in the watershed are long-term in nature and are
primary causes of water pollution.
Property values, public health and the quality of life in Hamburg
Township are highly related to the maintenance of surface and
groundwater quality. Given the complexity of the problem, no attempt
will be made in this document to propose solutions. However, the
Township, in cooperation with the various lake associations, may wish
to explore a possible mechanism to begin the study of water quality
problems.

4.

Natural Topography and Vegetation - For those who have resided in an urban
setting, the intrinsic value of rolling topography, trees and vegetation is well
understood. Poorly conceived subdivision activity has unwisely removed tree
cover and involved massive grading to minimize site development cost.
The scarcity of large tracts with woods or rolling topography make those
that still exist highly valuable. The land use densities proposed by the Land
Use Plan will promote the preservation of existing vegetation and
topography. Further, specific standards can be applied to subdivision plat
regulations and site plan review to require preservation of tree cover, the
provision of landscaping and buffer strips, and the minimization of site
grading. The adoption of a Planned Unit Development Ordinance, discussed
under Implementation Recommendations, wi II encourage preservation of
open space, vegetative cover, and natural topography.

68

�IMPLEMENTATION RECOMMENDATIONS
I.

The Land Use Plan reflects long-term desired growth patterns, densities and .
land uses. One of the principle means of implementing the Land Use Plan is
through the Township Zoning Ordinance.
Future rezoning requests and
special use permits should be reviewed for agreement with the basic
proposal of this Plan. A table in the Appendix illustrates the relationship
between current zoning districts and the land use classifications proposed by
the Land Use Plan.

2.

Several specific areas of the Township Zoning Ordinance should be reviewed
and revised:
a.

Permitted and special uses in each Zoning District should be reviewed
for compatibility with current conditions in the Township and the Land
Use Plan. Since the adoption of the Ordinance in 1968, certain uses
may no longer be appropriate for the district in which they are
located.

b.

Administrative rules, procedures and standards should be updated to
conform to revision in the Township Rural Zoning Act, and changed
conditions in the Township.

c.

Traditional zoning is designed to segregate uses by districts and
establish rigid standards for each district. In most cases, this approach
is necessary and appropriate. However, creative land planning, unique
natural conditions, and the social needs of residents are overlooked to
meet the basic requirements of the ordinance.
To encourage more creative design, preservation of open space, and
mixed use of a site, a Planned Unit Development (PUD) provision
should be incorporated in the Zoning Ordinance. A PUD option is
intended for larger sites and allows for integrated site design,
clustered buildings, preservation of common open space, and mixed
building types and land use (residential, community facilities, commer-

69

�cial, and recreational). Densities are calculated for an entire site
rather than on a lot-by-lot basis. Clustered building sites allow for the
preservation of open space and the reduction in site development and
utility costs. The mixture of building types and land uses provides a
more creative and interesting development.
d.

3.

4.

A more detailed site plan review process has recently been incorporated into the Township Zoning Ordinance. Site plan review will
permit the Township to exercise more control the quality of land
development by requiring approval by the Planning Commission of
detailed site plans for proposed development.
The site plan will
illustrate the relationship of the development to neighboring areas,
compliance with zoning district regulations, and special considerations
such as landscaping plans, parking and traffic circulation, and
preservation of natural features.

The recent revision and adoption of the Subdivision Plat Ordinance, prepared
in accordance with the Michigan Subdivision Control Act, is a major step
toward regulating the quality of land subdivision in the Township. Unfortunately, many aspects of platting activity go beyond the control of the
Township. The full cooperation of County and State agencies with plat
approval authority should be sought so that the best interests of the
Township are served. There is a need for better coordination of County
agencies in the platting process so that potential problems or conditions
associated with a particular subdivision plat may be better communicated to
the Township.
To avoid costly drainage improvements in the future, and promote uniform
requirements, the Township may wish to consider adopting standards for
storm drainage improvements to be applied to new subdivision plats and site
plans. The standards would be designed to regulate the amount of storm
runoff permitted to leave a development site so that existing drainage
systems are not overburdened.

70

f,

�5.

Although much pub I ic debate has been devoted to floodplain zoning, a great
deal of misunderstanding still exists. As was experienced with the adoption
of a Natural River Residential District, reasonable regulation can be
developed which promotes the public interest while protecting private
rights.
The recent completion of detailed floodplain mapping provides
accurate information to Hamburg citizens.
The Floodplain Citizens
Committee should now proceed with developing floodplain zoning regulations.

6.

The maintenance and, in some cases, improvement of water quality within
the Township will be largely influenced by the efforts of Township residents.
Although numerous lake associations exist, there is a need for these groups
to pool their efforts to achieve a common goal. It is recommended that an
Inter-Lakes Association be formed composed of representatives of each lake
to discuss and solve common problems.

7.

Improvements along M-36 near Hamburg Village will only be achieved
through the cooperation of the businesses located there. An M-36 Business
District Committee should be established composed of Planning Commission
representatives, businessmen and other interested citizens to explore
methods to improve traffic circulation and safety, visual appearance and
economic utility of the M-36 business strip.

71

d,

�Appendix

�LAND USE CLASSIFICATIONS
AND
APPLICABLE ZONING DESIGNATIONS

f

Applicable
Zoning District(s)

Land Use

Proposed Density

Low Density Rural
Residential and Reserve

I unit/2 acres

RAA-Single
Family Low
Density Rural

I unit/60,000 sq ft.

Medium Density
Residential

I unit/acre

RA- Single
Family Medium
Density

I unit/30,000 sq. ft.

High Density Residential

2-4 units/acre

RB - Single Family
High Density

I unit/ I 0.000 sq ft.

Multiple Family
Residential

4 units/acre

RC - Multiple Family
Residential

varies depending on size
of development

Natural River

I unit/acre

NR - Natural River
Residential

I unit/30,000 sq. ft.

Commercial

NA

NS - Neighborhood Service
CS - Community Service

NA
NA

Industrial

NA

I - Industrial

NA

Actual Density

�HAMBURG TOWNSHIP
ASSESSED VALUATION 1971 - 1979

Agriculture*

Commercial

Industrial

Residential

TOTAL

1971

3,022,225

620,240

360,710

23,388,362

27,391,537

1972

4,565,435

648,235

451, 130

28,540,215

34 . 205,015

1973

4,760,833

700, 170

370 ,050

30,612,272

36,443,325

1974

5,349,688

828,360

416,770

36,867,228

43,462,046

1975

6,444,600

909, 140

884,370

42,075,354

50,313,464

1976

998,550

1,015,070

53 , 476 408

55 ,490,028

1977

1,037,650

I, 131,100

60, I04 839

62,273,589

1978

1,154 . 640

1,154,900

74 ; 186,287

76,995,827

1979

I, 611

1,689,690

87,964,210

91,265,690

, 790

*Agricultural valuation discontinued in 1976.
Source:

ft

Hamburg Township and compiled by Ayres, Lewis, Norris &amp; May, Inc.

�SEMCOG SMALL AREA FORECASTS
ALTERNATIVE POPULATION PROJECTIONS
HAMBURG TOWNSHIP. 1990 and 2000
Projected Population
Alternative

1990

2000

Alternative One - Local Plans Modified by
Trends in Local Policy Changes. The Trend
Alternative shows the distribution of population, households and jobs that would result if
current trends in the implementation of local
plans were continued through the year 2000.

11,294

17,435

Alternative Two - Local Plans Modified by
Strong Resource Conservation Policies. The
Conservation Alternative shows the distribution of population, households and jobs that
would result if public policies were developed
to encourage development within the urbanized area of Southeast Michigan making use of
existing sewers and households and reducing
public service and utility costs.

9,949

13.043

Alternative Three - Local Plans, Modified by
County Plans and/or Policies. The County
Plans Alternative shows the distribution of
population, households and jobs that would
result if the existing plans and policies of the
counties were followed.

12,562

14.983

�Projected Population
Alternative

!990

2000

Alternative Four - Market Forces, Unrestrained.
The Market Forces Alternative
shows the distribution of population, households and jobs that would result if no public
policy restraints were placed on where development could occur in the seven-county
area. This alternative shows what happens if
there is no check on urban sprawl.

8,162

16,330

Alternative Five - Local Plan, Unmodified.
The local Plans alternative shows the distribution of population, households and jobs
that would result if policies contained in local
plans were followed without modifica-tion.
Since many local plans tend to favor growth,
this alternative puts few limitations on urban
sprawl.

15,379

23.304

Alternative Six - Local Plans Modified by
Adopted SEMCOG Policy Recommendations.
The SEMCOG Alternative is a moderate conservation policy which makes use of existinq
housing and sewers, and conserves sensitive
lands.

12,102

17,566

Source: Southeastern Michigan Council of Governments, Small Area Forecasts

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Charles Hammond
(00:29:35)
Background (00:00:00)
•
•
•
•

Born August 24, 1919, in Bridgedale, Ohio (00:23)
Moved to Columbus, near Eureka Island (00:55)
Parents worked various jobs during the depression.
His dad held an insurance job and his family owned a bakery
o They lost both of these and their house during the Depression
o They did farming work with his two other siblings
 They are both dead now (01:11)
• Attended West High School in Columbus
• Moved to Mt. Vernon, Ohio and finished school there
o Graduated in 1939(01:58)
• He did not think too much about the war starting in Europe in 1939. He was
aware of it though. (02:18)

Enlistment/ Training (00:02:32)
• Was drafted into the army (02:32)
• Worked for the SS Kresge Company and in a stock room at a dime store after
graduation in 1940 (02:40)
• Drafted in 1940 (03:00)
• Trained in Mort McClellan, Alabama
o Basic infantry training(03:09)
• Rifle training, physical training, trained for with a variety of guns (03:14)
• Went to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey (03:51)
• Spent sixteen weeks in basic training before he was sent over seas. (04:03)
Deployment/Active Duty (00:04:14)
• Set out for Scotland on the Queen Elizabeth
o Was basically a giant floating hotel
• The ship did not travel in a convoy because it was fast enough to where it could
avoid the German submarines.
o Took six days to reach the destination (04:14)
• Played a lot of cards and bummed around the ship for the six days as
entertainment (04:47)
• No threats of German Submarines that he knew of, smooth sailing (05:16)
• Once in Scotland, he and the other troops boarded trains an set out for Southern
England
o Older trains (05:28)
• Went to a camp near Southampton

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•

•
•
•
•
•

•

•
•
•
•
•
•
•

o It was a tent camp for processing
o Gives troops assignments and munitions (06:08)
He was assigned to military police
o Evacuate P.O.W.s from the battlefield
 Dealt with German soldiers a lot (06:38)
Crossed the Channel into Normandy thirty days after D-Day(07:15)
Referred to his time in France as an “Adventure”
Moved through France very rapidly, troop movement slowed down a lot when
they reached the Alsace-Lorraine region
o July to September (07:48)
Alsace-Lorraine region had a lot of bad weather, coupled with supply issues, his
platoon was stuck there for thirty days (08:17)
He was with the 4th armored division in the 3rd Army (08:33)
Was in Luxembourg when his regiment was given the order to go in a different
direction
o Told to go to Bastogne in December of 1944
 Cold and snowy, “Just like Michigan, but worse” (08:43)
Stayed in a blown-out tavern for Christmas Eve
o Moved into the region the next day (09:27)
Air Force dropped in supplies to make a break through the German lines (09:46)
Was not in that area for long before his regiment was ordered back to the first
plan to get into Germany through Luxembourg (10:26)
Doesn’t know where prisoners were sent
They would take them to the Allied Headquarters in the area for questioning and
interrogating
o In the beginning of the war they would be sent back stateside for
imprisonment, but once territory was gained on the European mainland
they were dispersed to areas in France (10:35)
Majority of soldiers that he had to deal with were older men, and they were happy
that the war was over for them, they were well behaved and good mannered, not
much trouble at all, even when there were more German P.O.W.s than Allied
people (11:15)
Did not deal with the locals all that much (12:15)
Was in Czechoslovakia when they met up with the Russians
o Big celebration (12:48)
Sent to southern Bavaria for occupation measures
o Had civilian contact there (13:19)
September of 1945 was when he stopped being part of the army of occupation in
Bavaria (14:00)
Not a lot to do while in the occupation army, they were there as a deterrent for the
people to not do anything, the SS children were the biggest problem because they
were raised in the Hitler nation and ideals (14:15)
Lots of destruction, totally demolished
o He saw a lot more destruction in France (15:00)
Got an emergency furloughed to come home

�•

o (Tape paused so he could collect his emotions at this point) (15:34)
Returned to camp Kilmer, given a thirty day leave
o He returned home to Mt. Vernon and saw his family and worked for a few
days
o He couldn’t get an extension so he returned to the base (16:05)

Discharge (00:16:47)
• December 24, got discharged, couldn’t get home via the transportation was all
booked up because it was the day before Christmas (16:47)
• Pooled their money with a few other guys and got a cab to Pittsburgh, then took a
train from there to Columbus.
o He got home early Christmas morning (17:28)
Post Service Life (00:18:00) s
• Went back to the express company he worked at before the war, as a truck driver
(18:00)
• Got promoted to a supervision position
o He went to various locations and relieved people that were quitting or
being fired (18:17)
• First office was in a city in northern Ohio (19:00)
• Moved his office to Wellington, Ohio
• Then to Finley, Ohio
• Then to Jacksonville, Michigan
• Then to Hastings, Michigan
• Then to Muskegon, Michigan, where he retired (19:16)
• Company started to show signs of collapsing in 1969 (19:54)
• Started work with Shaw and Walker Company
o As a travel manager (20:11)
• Retired in 1983 (20:21)
• Wife died of cancer, he remarried in 1994 (21:12)
• Got in a motorcycle accident in 1995, that involved a lot of surgery, that hinders
what they do in their late ages with each other (21:35)
• Travels a lot with his wife (22:15)
• Sent lots of letters to family during war.
• Explains how that worked, and how the people receiving the messages get
photocopies of the note, not the actual thing (22:25)
• Had time off to go to a Riviera while in Europe, it was very nice (23:09)

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Bob Hammond
(1:21:34)
(00:30) Background Information
•
•
•
•

Bob was born on February 18, 1923 in Grand Rapids, Michigan
He went to South High School
Bob joined the Navy one year after Pearl Harbor had been attacked
He was 18 years old when Pearl Harbor was attacked and it had been a real shock

(02:10) The Navy
• Bob went to Great Lakes Naval Academy training in Chicago
• They were not here very long; just enough time to get their shots and do some marching
• They were tested for placement and Bob was placed into radio school
• He said that he got practically no training as a soldier
(03:18) Radio School in Jacksonville, Florida
• Bob was assigned to be a monitor
• He learned lessons in Morse Code, but did not like working with it
• He also learned to type 60 words a minute and took flag training
• They had to wake up every day at 6am five days a week
• Many of the men spent the weekends in Jacksonville
(06:16) Gunnery School
• Bob worked with 50 and 30 caliber machine guns
• He was given a choice of whether he wanted to work in planes or subs
• Bob thought that flying would be much more exciting
• He then began working with TBFs, or torpedo bombers
• He would fly with a pilot, himself as the radio gunner, and another gunner/mechanic
• They often flew over the ocean very close to the water
(9:40) Radar School
• This took place in Virginia in which Bob had more training with torpedo and dive
bombing
(13:35) The Intrepid Air Craft Carrier, CB-11
• This was a nice and brand new ship

�•
•
•
•
•
•

Bob had a bad area for his bunk, which was right below the hangar deck
They still had to get up every day at 6
Bob began flying out with a crew looking for subs near Africa and spent a few days in
Trinidad
They also traveled through the Panama Canal and the captain actually ran right into the
canal on accident
Bob was assigned to shore patrol with Panama MPs
They then went to San Francisco and flew right under the Golden Gate Bridge

(20:11) Maui
• Here Bob was on the Franklin air craft carrier
• They learned about the Norton Bomb Sight
• They went on night training flights and one pilot got vertigo, crashed, and died
(25:05) Palau
• They traveled to this Pacific island and attacked the ships in the harbor
• Bob had traveled with a fighter and bomber squadron
• The fighter sweep went in first, then the dive bombers, and last the torpedo planes
• They had been hit and had to make a one wheel landing on the carrier
• The plain was covered in holes from all the bullets
• They bombs that they used weighted 500-1000 pounds
(42:00) Saipan
• Bob and his crew would dive bomb here wherever directed to by the Marines
• The US had been trying to take back numerous islands from the Japanese
• Bob and many others were being attacked by Japanese fighter plains
• This was a very intense battle compared to his past experiences
• They were to provide air support for Marines against sea and land targets
(48:10) Guam
• Here Bob went on bomb strikes 5 times
• He felt more safe in this area
• They had been taking one island at a time and Bob felt that they were progressing
(54:50) The Philippines
• Bob began to feel mentally unstable this far into the war
• They took many prisoners in the Philippines
• Bob helped take a Japanese airfield out of commission

�(56:50) Okinawa and Formosa
• Here Bob hit many ships, but the experience is quite vague
• His last battle was at Formosa
(57:40) TDD Squadron near Alaska
• TDD was a target drone dummy based on a movie character
• Bob was headed towards Alaska when the bombs were dropped on Japan
• He was very grateful because he feared that he would soon have to go back to the Pacific
• He had seen so many battles and was not well enough to do it again
• They had been pulled out of the Pacific and on their way to Alaska because Bob and
many other men could no longer pass any physicals
• Bob had been on 39 flight missions and was so relieved to hear that it was over
• He often had migraine headaches and trouble sleeping
(1:05:00) Bob is Honorably Discharged
• Bob traveled from Alaska to San Diego, and then to Chicago where he was discharged
• He hitch-hiked back to Michigan and his parents were very surprised and pleased to see
him

�l'lUTICE OF SEPARATION FROM U. S. NAVAL SERVICE
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�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

The President of the United states takes pleasure in presenting
the PRESIDENITAL UNIT CITATION to the
U.S.S. BUNKER HILL
and her attached Air Groups participating in the following operations:
November 11, 1943, to February 23, 1944, Rabaul, Gilberts, Nauru, Kavieng,
Marshalls, Truk, Marianas: AG-17 (VF-18, VB-17, VT-17, Part of VFN:~76).
March 29 to April 30, 1944, Palau, Hollandia, Truk; June 11 to August 5, 1944,
Marianas, Bonins, Palau; September 6to October 21, 1944, Philippines, Palau, Yap,
Ryukyus, Formosa: AG-8 (VF-8, VB-8, VT-8, Part of VFN-76).
November 11 to 25, 1944, Luzon: AG-4 (VF-4, VB-4, VT-4).
February 16 to May 11, 1945, Japan, Bonine, Ryukyus: AG-84 (VF-84, VB-84,
VT-84, VMF-221, VMF-451).
for service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
"For extraordinary heroism in action against enemy .
Japanese forces in the air, ashore and afloat in the South, Central,
Southwest and Western Pacific, from November 11, 1943, to MayIl,
1945. Spearheading our concentrated carrier-warfare in the most
forward areas, the U.S;S. BUNKER HILL and her air groups struck
crushing blows toward annihilating Japanese fighting power; they
provided air cover for our amphibious fqrces;theyfiercely countered
the enemy's aerial attacks and destroyed his planes; and they in­
flicted terrific losses on the Japanese in Fleet and merchant marine
units sunk or damaged, Daring and dependable in combat, the /
BUNKER HILL with her gallant officers and men rendered loyal
service in achieving the ultimate defeat- of the Japanese Empire."
For the President,

~~w
Secretary of the Navy

.

C-73273

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

WASHINGTON


The President of the United States takes plea­
sure in presenting the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS to
ROBERT NELSON HAMMOND

AVIATION R.A..DIOMAN SEOOND OLASS

DNTTED STATES NAVAL RESERVE


tor service as set forth in the following
CITATION:

"'.,Ojoo

ttFor heroism and extraordinary achievement in
aerial flight as Radioman of a Torpedo Plane in Tor­
pedo SquadroriEIGRT~ attached to the U.S.S. BUNKER
HILL,. during operations against enemy Japanese
forces on Guam from March 30 to October 13~ 1944.
Completing his twentieth mission during this period,
HAMMOND participated in bombing attacks against
ground installations and assisted in furnishing
support for friendly ships, thereby contributing
materially to the success of his plane. His skill
and courageous devotion to duty in the face of anti­
aircraft fire were in keeping with the highest
traditions of the United States Naval Service."
(\ For the President,

\L-~P ~

.[ . .'

./f~("S~~
LJ secretaF:r-~f the Navy .

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

WASHINGTON


The President of the United states takes plea­
sure in presenting the AIR MEDAL to
ROBERT IiJELSON HAMMOND


AVIATION RADIOMAN SECOND CLASS

UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE

for service as set forth in the following
CITATIOIiI :

"'.....	

"For meritorious achievement in aerial flight
as Radioman Of a Torpedo Plane in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT, attached to the U~S.S. BUNKER HILL, during
operations against enemy Japanese forces on woleai
and New Guinea and the Palau Islands from March 30
to October 13, 1944. Completing his fifth mission
during this period, HAMMOND rendered valuable as­
sistance to his pilot in carrying out bombing at­
tacks against hostile minlng, shipping and ground
'installations, thereby contributing materially to
the success of his plane. His skill and courageous
devotion to duty in the face of antiaircraft fire
were in keeping with the highest traditions of the
United States Naval Service."

.1\ For the Pres ident ,
, \	
("

»-e~~i:~

Usecretc;;,-df the Navy

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

The President or the United States takes pleasure
. in pr-es ent.Lng the AIR MEDAL to

ROBERT NELSON HAMMOND

AVIATION RADIOMAN SECOND CLASS

UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE

ror service as set forth in the following
CITATION:

;('"

...."'"

UFor meritorious achievement in aerial r1ight as
Radioman Gunner of a Torpedo Bomber in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT, attached to the U.S .S. BUNKER HILL, during
action against enemy Japanese rorces in'the Pacific War
. Area, from March 15 to Oct ober 22, 1944. Undaunted by
hazardous weather conditions, withering antiaircraft.
:fire and strongf'ighter opposition, HAMMOND success­
:fully participated in daring strikes against enemy ship­
ping and installations at or near the Palans, Bonins,
Volcanos, Philippines and Rjulcyus, and the islands of
'Woleai, Truk and Formosa and assisted in strategic and
tactical support. maneuvers for landings by United
States rorces at Hollandia, :Saipan, Tinian, Guam, Palau
and the Philippines. By his initiative, skill and cour­
age, he continually rendered aid to nis pilot and was a
constant inspiration to the other members of his combat
team. His resolute conduct~ aggressive spirit and un­
wavering devotion to duty throughout this period of in-'
tense aerial actiVity reflect the highest credit upon
'HAMMOND and the United states Naval Service. tJ
For the President,

d~~~
Secretary of the Navy

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

WASHINGTON


The President of the United states takes olea­
sure in presenting the GOLD STAR in lieu of the Second
Air Medal to
ROBERT NELSON Rl1.MM:OND

AVIATION RADIOMAN SECOND ClASS

UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE

for

serv~ce

as set forth in the following

CITATION:
: "For meritorious achievement in aerial flight
as Radioman of a Torpedo Plane in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT, attached to theU.S.S. BUNKER HILL, during
operations against enemy Japanese forces in the
Caroline Islands from March 30 to October 13~ 1944.
Cgm.,~leting his tenth mission during this period,
HAMMOND participated in bombing attacks against
hostile shipping and ground installations~ thereby
contributing materially to the success of his plane.
By his skill and courageous devotion to duty in the
face of antiaircraft fire, HAMMOND upheld the high­
est ·traditions of the United States Naval Service."
~or

the President,

.~.

.l;;.

-e r.

creta~the

.

,~---~
Navy .

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

The President of the United States takes plea­
sure in presenting the GOIJ) STAR in lieu of the Third
. Air Medal to
BOBERJ: NELSON HAMIvIOND

AVIATION RADIOMAN SEOOND CLASS

UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE


for service as set forth in the following
. CITATION:
"For meritorious achievement, in aerial:flight
as Radioman of a Torpedo Plane in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT, attached to the U.S.S. BUNKER HILL, during
operations against enemy Japanese forces in the
Marianas Islands from March 30 to October 13, 1944.
'Oompleting his fifteenth mission during this period,
HAMMOND assisted' his pilot in carrying out bombing
attacks against ground installations on Saipan and
Tinian and assisted in furnishing support for
friendly ships, thereby contributing materially to
the success of his plane. His skill and courageous
devotion to duty in the face of antiaircraft fire
were in keeping with the highest traditions of the
United States Naval Service. fl

i'\

(

For the President,

n -p (

.

~~ y.)A~~~d""

U secr~i;.ar:J

of the Navy

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

WASHINGTON


The President of the United States takes plea­
sure in presenting th~ GOLD STAR in lieu of the Fourth
Air medal to
ROBERT NELSON H.A.MMOND

AVIATION RADIOMAN SECOND CLASS

UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE

for service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
"For meritorious achievement in aerial flight
as Radioman of a Torpedo Plane in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT~ attached to the U.S.S. BUNKER HILL, during
operations against enemy Japanese forces on Guam
and in the Palau and Bonin Islands from March 30
to October 13, 1944. Completing his twenty-fifth
mission during this period, RAMMONDassisted his
pilot, iil carrying out bombing attacks against enemy
shipping and ground installations, thereby contrib-,
uting materially 'to the success of his plane. His
skill. and courageous devotion to duty in the face
of antiaircraft fire were in keeping with the high­
est traditions of. the United States Naval Service. If

t For the President"
\) 1)

-P C~~

~:&lt;i'
/r~~
I
.&gt;:
)
C,
/
I

-, Secreta"ry..../of the Navy

r-,

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

The President of the United States takes plea­ 

sure in pr-eaent Lng the GOLD STAR in lieu of the Fifth

'Air Medal to


ROBERT NELSON HAMMOND

AVIATION RADIOMAN SECOND CLASS

UNITED STATES :NAVAL RESERVE

for service as set forth in the following

CITATION:
UFoI' meri tarious -achievement in aerial flight

as Radioman of a Torpedo Plane in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT" attached to the U.S.S. BUNKER HILL; during
operations against enemy Japanese forces in the
Palau and Philippine Islands from March 30 to Oc­
tober 13" 1944. Completing his thirtieth mission
during this period" HAMMOND rendered valuable as­
sistance to his pilot in carrying out bombing at­
tacks, against hostile shipping and ground instal­
lations" thereby contributing materially to the suc­
cess of his plane in the infliction of damage on
the enemy. His skill and courageous devotion to
duty in the face of antiaircraft fire were in keep­
ing with the highest traditions of the United States
Naval Service."
For the President,

r
.
VIJ\"~'
..D

secret"a-~~f

the Navy

�THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

The President of the United States takes plea­
sure in presenting the GOLD STAR in lieu of the Sixth
Air Medal to
ROBERT NELSON HAMMOI~D

AVIATION RADIOMAN SECOND CLASS

UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE

for service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
"For meritorious achisvement in aerial flight
as Radioman of a Torpedo Plane in Torpedo Squadron
EIGHT., attached to the U.S:.S. BUNKER HILL, during
operations against enemy Japanese forces in the
Philippine and Palau Islands from March 30 to Octo­
ber 13, 1944. Completing his thirty-fifth mission
during this period, HAMMOND participated in bombing
attacks against hostile shipping, aircraft and
ground installations and assisted in furnishing
support for friendly ships., thereby contributing
materially to the success of his plane. His skill
and courageous devotion to duty in the face of anti-­
aircraft fire were in keeping with the highest tra­
ditions of the United States Naval Service."

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Desert Storm Era/Operation Iraqi Freedom Era
Steve Hammond

(1:49)
Introduction (0:14)
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Steve was born in Ionia, Michigan in 1964. He grew up there and graduated from high
school in 1982.
His dad worked for Consumers Power for over thirty two years and his mother worked
for the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
His family has a rich history of military service, his earliest relative, Daniel Wilson
served in the Revolutionary War, he has found some Civil War veterans also one of
which named Aaron Essex, is buried at the Veterans Cemetery on Monroe. He was in the
New York Infantry. His grandfather was in World War I. (2:33) Steve’s dad and two of
his dad’s brothers served in World War II. His dad graduated from high school in Ionia
in 1944.
After his father finished his basic training, he was put on a train that headed west to San
Francisco. However, the train was late which caused him to miss his ship. Later he
found out that the ship he missed was sunk in the battle of Leyte Gulf. (4:50)
He served in the Seabees, and went to New Guinea and Guam.
If the atomic bomb had not been dropped, his father most likely would have been sent to
Japan, and could have been killed. (6:25)

Joining the Military (6:33)
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After working at a fast food restaurant, Burger Chef, he decided he would check out the
military, part-time.
He found out about a chef job, and then switched to a communications job. He had
joined the Army National Guard.
He went to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for his basic training. (8:08)
Motivation for completing his training was his dad’s poor health.
Not wanting to redo his training, he stayed with it.
The National Guard did not have a good reputation since Vietnam.

Training (10:55)
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National Guardsman go through the same basic training as the regular Army, which is 8
weeks.
Arriving at Fort Jackson, he is received in civilian clothes, and is then issued his military
uniforms and a haircut.
Steve struggled with the training because he knew that he was just going to be part-time
and did not understand why he had to go through the regular training. He found out years
later that it was in case he was activated. (12:29)

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Most of the men were not in good shape when they arrived. Steve could do two push-ups
in two minutes when he arrived, once he completed training he could do fifty in two
minutes.
Along with physical conditioning, his training also consisted of rifle training with the M16, he had trouble sighting it in and aiming. While he struggled, he passed his rifle
qualification. (14:16)
During his bivouac week, he and his buddy were on a live fire range, he ran out of ammo
before he could finish the exercise. He liked the control environment of the range.
(16:28)
He also had to do several different aptitude tests, including the ASVAB.

Advanced Training (17:31)
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Upon completion of his basic training, Steve was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia for the
Signal Corps to train for combat telecommunications. Land line teletype systems were
used, and his training had lots of typing, generator use and field exercises.
Everything was computerized. He credits the technology to the Commander-in-Chief,
Ronald Reagan, for putting an emphasis on military technology. (19:47)
This course lasted twelve weeks.
After his advanced training, he was sent to his home unit.

Home Unit (21:31)
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Steve was attached to the 107th Supply and Service Battalion, in Ionia, Michigan.
He was there from 1983 till late 1987.
His job was to set up land line teletypes on field exercises and field telephones.
The commitment to serve was one weekend a month, and two weeks during the summer
when they went to Camp Grayling. (23:45)
His service was done within Michigan, except when he went to schools such as at Camp
Ashland, Nebraska which was an NCO (non-commissioned officer) training school. This
school lasted about two weeks.
When he went to the school he was an E-4, Specialist, and the school qualified him to
pick up the next rank, sergeant.
Promotions are slower in the National Guard compared to the regular Army. (25:40)

Unit Transfer (26:21)
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156th Signal Battalion, located in Ypsilanti, Michigan became Steve’s new unit from
1987 till 1993.
He was working full-time at the prison, and he worked part-time for the Guard.
He didn’t need any further training when he switched to the new unit.
During Desert Storm, his unit was training to go to the Middle East. His unit was never
activated. (29:05)
His unit would work with other units to set up radio communications, like an engineer
unit from the Upper Peninsula.

�
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He never liked the Governor’s Parade, and today doesn’t have much respect for
politicians because he had to stand in formation and listen to the Governor speak, which
often took a long time. (32:30)
During Katrina, George W. Bush was blamed for not sending the Guard in to help, but
the Pentagon can call up any unit at any time.
His unit also trained for riots. Such as that in Detroit in 1993. He was almost extended
because of the near-riot after a man was beat with flashlights by police. Nothing
happened and he got out. (35:20)
After ten years in the Army National Guard, he got out.

Air National Guard (37:44)
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His first deployment with the Air National Guard was to Alpena.
Steve wanted to travel, and go overseas.
So he became a mechanic with the A-10s. But later switched to the Civil Engineers, and
was a plumber. (39:05)
He was in the Air Guard beginning in March 1997.
While in, he trained with personnel from NATO countries and other allies such as
Canada, England, Latvia, Saudi Arabia, France and Israel. (41:02)
At this time, he is still working full-time in corrections.
His unit earned an outstanding award after training in Alpena, Michigan.
RRR, Rapid Runway Repair, a task done during combat operations to quickly get
runways repaired after being bombed by the enemy. He had to train for this in full
chemical gear. One man passed out and Steve yelled to a major to call an ambulance,
which he did. (43:29)

Saudi Arabia (45:02)
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Steve’s first big deployment was to Saudi Arabia in 2000. He had just been married, and
his wife was seven months pregnant. They flew from Battle Creek to Detroit then to
Baltimore, Ireland, Egypt, Kuwait and finally to Saudi Arabia. (48:29) The windows had
to be shut and the lights off when flying into Saudi. They had a two plane escort, and
when they landed, they had all Christian articles such as Bibles, crosses, stars of David,
and all pornography taken, even Sports Illustrated or pictures of women playing sports.
For this deployment he was given the anthrax shots, and he avoided his fourth shot.
(51:07)
At 1am in Kuwait it was 110 degrees, and when they got to Saudi Arabia at 8am it was
120 degrees in the shade. They were advised to just drink water.
Having to remain hydrated, he had to urinate a lot and had to take his time doing things.
Saudi Arabia is a kingdom not a nation, and it made him appreciate our freedom as
Americans more than before. (53:10)
Steve was based outside of Riyadh, and he was there about three weeks. He was ordered
to stay on the base. Only a few people every month were allowed to leave base, and they
had to be active duty.
The soldiers had to wear covers over there body, both men and women, and the women
would be hassled for walking in front of men. They were also encouraged to stay away

�
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from public executions that took place on Friday’s. These were done for crimes such as
adultery. (55:52)
The beginning of August he was able to come home. The plane reversed course on the
return trip. The pilot said “Welcome to the United States” and everyone onboard cheered
and clapped. (57:00)
While in the airport in Baltimore, six men were missing when it was time to leave, they
ended up leaving two men behind, and they arrived the next day. (59:26)
At a retirement ceremony for one of the men left behind, Steve wanted to know where he
was when they were left behind, and gave him a map of the Baltimore area for his gift.
(1:02:04)

Stateside, 9/11 (1:02:17)
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June 2001, Steve was in the Black Hills of South Dakota, conducting civil engineering
training.
They traveled all around the area seeing local attractions such as Mount Rushmore,
Deadwood, Little Big Horn, Custer State Park, Bad Lands and the Devil’s Tower.
September 11, 2001 Steve had just bought a house in Walker (1:04:10)
Steve had always wanted to see the World Trade Centers, and to watch them come down
really bothered him. He remembers watching Peter Jennings lose it on TV, it was the
first time he saw him do that. Watching the towers fall, Steve’s wife was scared that he
was going to be activated. (1:06:43)
He was given a tour of the Pentagon once, he wondered why they would attack such a
solid structure, and thought the Capital building would have been a more demoralizing
target, or the White House. (1:08:51)
The main target for the US was the training camps in Afghanistan.
Security was tightened on his base, requiring ID checks for everyone, even those in
uniform. (1:10:13)
He didn’t know what was going to happen to his unit, so he packed his bags just in case.
As a civil engineer, his unit traveled to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, to fix up
the area and make improvements. (1:12:23)
After his time down south, in 2002, they found out they were leaving around
Thanksgiving or Christmas back to Saudi Arabia.

Back to Saudi Arabia (1:15:50)
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The day after Thanksgiving they left for Battle Creek to go overseas. They went from
Battle Creek to Detroit, Baltimore, Cyprus, Kuwait and then to Saudi Arabia.
Flying into Saudi, they still had their windows down and lights off, they were flown in
with four escort planes. (1:16:55)
His role was the same as his previous deployment. They were there for a little over a
month, he left just before Christmas.
The weather was so much different, because it was winter. The hottest it got was around
65 degrees. (1:18:45)
He was kept in the dark about the situation in Iraq and elsewhere.

�
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Again, he was not allowed off the base, except to fix a water leak near a small town
outside of the base. The locals looked at them with hatred just because they were
American service members. (1:20:27)
His unit was not called to go into Iraq.

England (1:22:03)
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Steve and his unit were sent to Royal Air Force Base Mildenhall, located just north of
London.
England was very nice, but expensive. In London protesters were angry about the
American presence in Iraq.
What he liked best about being in England, every day they played God Save the Queen
and then the Star-Bangled Banner. He liked saluting during that time out of respect for
our NATO allies. (1:23:58)

Israel (1:24:02)
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The following year, his unit was sent to Israel in February and March.
It was the same type of deployment as before, construction and repair, and they created
buildings for United States Marines that were coming there.
They went on a tour of the area, rented their own bus and traveled around to see all the
sights.
Steve was advised not to wear an American Flag or American sports team or university
shirts. (1:26:25)
At the Wailing Wall, a woman who was deployed with them wanted to go to the men’s
side, but was talked out of it by the fact that UN guards were nearby ready to enforce
local rules and regulations. (1:29:24)
Haggling with a local vendor, Steve bought a paper weight of the city, he was advised by
the tour guide never to take the first price that is given.
He bought several rosaries for his family and had them blessed by a French priest at the
tomb of Jesus. (1:34:00)
One of the men with him had his wallet stolen.
Back on the 2nd Saudi Tour (1:35:53)
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TCN – Third Country Nationals, workers on the base from other
countries, mostly from Pakistan.
Steve watched some workers that were supposed to be delivering
water working on something that he found suspicious, so he
reported the activity.
Two days later he was given a coin by the Command Chief Master
Sergeant for the information that he gave. (1:37:09)
The men were doing something in the dirt, near the fuel storage
area.

Last Deployment and Retirement (1:39:05)

�

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In Alpena, Michigan, Steve was asked to create a security outline for perimeter defenses.
He inquired with other Guard units and a Marine unit to check with their manuals. Some
of his ideas were placed in the Air Force manuals later on. He was given an Air Force
Commendation Medal for the act.
Around this time, he had 22 years in and thought it was time to retire. Steve was an E-6.
National Guard and Reservists need to acquire 60 points a year for retirement. He
wanted to go a little beyond just to be sure that he was eligible for retirement. (1:42:55)
Steve has his pension from the government and will also draw a small check for around
$50 a month from the State of Michigan for 20 years of service in the National Guard.
(1:45:43)
His time in the service affected his whole life. He was his son’s Cub Scout leader, and
they wanted him because of his leadership skills and his attention to detail.
Now, he is a leader in the Boy Scouts for his son.
He carries great pride and faithfulness for his country and the American Flag.

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                    <text>Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Bill Hampton
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 2/9/2012

Biography and Description
English
Bill Hampton is a former Chicago public school teacher and the brother of Fred Hampton, Deputy
Chairman of the Illinois Chapter of the Black Panther Party who was murdered by a special police squad
in an early morning raid on December 4, 1969. Bill Hampton grew up in Maywood, Illinois, where he
organizes an annual commemoration event for his brother, usually attended by civic leaders and the
community at large. Mr. Hampton has served as director of the Midwest Voter Alliance, as a field
organizer for then-presidential candidate Barak Obama, and he also runs a traffic safety program in
Maywood.

Spanish
Bill Hampton era un maestro en las escuelas de Chicago y también el hermano de Fred Hampton, quien
fue el vicepresidente de la sección del Black Panther Party en Illinois. Fred Hampton fue asesinado en la
mañana del 4 de Diciembre 1969 por un equipo especial de policía. Bill Hampton creció en Maywood,
Illinois, donde organizo un a conmemoración anual en recuerdo de su hermano que fue atendido por
líderes del cívico y la comunidad. En Maywood, Señor Hampton corre un programa de seguridad en el

�tráfico y como director de Midwest Voter Aliance, organizo y coordino para Barak Obama durante su
primera ves corriendo por presidente.

�Transcript

BILL HAMPTON:

Glad to be here. (inaudible)

JOSE JIMENEZ:

Tell me about your family a little bit and your (inaudible) growin’ up.

BH:

My family migrated to Chicago from Louisiana and we were born here at Cook
County Hospital. It’s me, Fred, my sister Delores, and we lived in Argo, Illinois
for a while. We moved to Blue Island, Illinois. Stayed there about 7 years.
Attended Bremen School, then we come to Maywood in ’58.

JJ:

What school was that?

BH:

Bremen?

JJ:

Bremen Elementary in Maywood -- in Blue Island. I don’t think it’s there
anymore. And we come to Maywood in ’58 and attended Irving School. Then we
left [out there?] and went to Proviso East. We liked sports. We always had a
vacation every year. Family kept us close knit. We visited our relatives in the
city and the South.

JJ:

Were you on the same team as Fred or...?

BH:

Well, we played Little League Baseball. We both liked baseball.

JJ:

And what school was this?

BH:

Little League [00:01:00] was in a community. We was on different teams, yeah.

JJ:

So what teams were you playin’ on?

BH:

Baseball teams. We played, both, baseball. He played first base and third base.
I played first base, outfield, pitched. And then we got into high school, we played
things like football and all that. Football and basketball. And we liked a lot of

1

�music concerts. In fact, Fred played saxophone.
JJ:

Oh, Fred played the saxophone?

BH:

And then I played trombone a little bit. And, you know, we kind of, like, my
parents tried to keep us well rounded. My father was a painter and my mother
and father both were in the union where they worked. CPC, both work in the
union. So they always stressed education with us. And we would go to
Louisiana. We would talk to our grandparents on both sides and they would tell
us about how things were in the South, things that they had to go through here.
[00:02:00] They didn’t want us to go through here.

JJ:

What kind of things?

BH:

Well, you know, segregation and racism and all that stuff. And so --

JJ:

What were their names, your grandparents?

BH:

My grandparents on my mother’s side was [Eli?], that was her father Eli [Hugh?],
and [Lizzy?] was her mother. My father’s dad was [Empsy?]. His mother was
[Emma?]. They were both, you know, from Louisiana.

JJ:

So what was Eli’s [life?]?

BH:

He was a sharecropper raised on the 106-acre farm that his daddy, first
generation out of slave, [Edmund?].

JJ:

First generation out of slave?

BH:

No, he wasn’t, but his daddy was, Edmund.

JJ:

I mean, his daddy was a slave?

BH:

Yeah, Eli -- my mother’s granddaddy was first generation not a slave. Wasn’t a
slave, he was first generation from slavery. But his daddy, which would have

2

�been my mother’s great grandfather, was a slave and his name was [Moses
White?]. [00:03:00] And my father’s grandfather, you know, great grandfather, he
was a slave. [Anderson?], out of Louisiana.
JJ:

So did Fred (inaudible)

BH:

(shakes head)

JJ:

No. (inaudible) So did Fred know this too? (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

Oh yeah, no we all knew the parents were slaves like most Black people did.
You know, yeah, we knew that, yeah. ’cause quite naturally they brought it up.

JJ:

So how did this affect you? I mean, did you...?

BH:

Yeah, you know, we wondered about it. We wondered about it. We just glad it
wasn’t in our generation, you know. When you talk to people it’s closer than you
think, you know. You hear about it, you read about it. Again, you talk to your
grandparents tell you different things didn’t used -- you know, take an effect on
you. So I guess that’s why things happened in the ’60s like they did. People felt
that somethin’ shoulda been did about it. And, you know, [00:04:00] we’d hear
about things, read about things, and see different things. In Louisiana we saw
different things. Segregation and places where things happened at. You know,
so it put a little psychological thing on you. And then things you face here, you
know.

JJ:

Okay. When you say segregation, because I mean, I think people divided in
neighborhoods.

BH:

Well yeah, when we’d go South you see colored signs and Black signs, you
know, colored and white. You couldn’t use the washrooms or you couldn’t go to

3

�certain restaurants or somethin’. So we would see that. And after a period of
time, when the movement got strong, we went back down there and one gas
station we used to go to, we saw the sign was down. So me and my brother
said, “Look, see it’s down. It’s not there no more.” So we’d go down there and
sometimes we’d accidentally go in the wrong, and the guy said, “No, yours is
over here.” You know? So it’s kind of like, [00:05:00] you go in that territory and
it freak you out. You see those signs, would freak us out.
JJ:

So when --

BH:

(inaudible) freak us out.

JJ:

So when you were growing up, you were just studying politics or you were just
seeing things?

BH:

Well we were seeing things before we got started because of, you know, Fred’s
ambition was to be a lawyer, and he was deep into that real heavy. And he got
involved in things at the high school, Proviso, which was a mixed integrated
school. So by him being good with students, it made him the head of the
Interracial Cross-Section Committee. And he took the job. He took it and did it
and did it well. As he did that, he got out of high school and went into college.
And he, you know, started demonstration for open housing. He got elected to the
Youth NACP [sic] and started doing things, demonstration for jobs, open housing,
[00:06:00] recreation facilities, which was approved. And I guess he got into it
deeper than he expected. And if he had gotten in so deep, he wasn’t the type to
just get out of it. He just went all the way through it. As bad as he wanted to be
a lawyer, he just kind of pushed that aside and decided, “Okay, I’m going to

4

�Youth NACP. Then he go from that to the Panthers.” Just felt he had a job to
do. And he just made that commitment and he wanted people to be around him
and be dedicated too because he didn’t want to feel like he was wasting his time.
’Cause he always said, “I could go back to being a lawyer. I don’t want to be with
a bunch of people who’s wastin’ my time.” So this is what he got off into. And he
just had that commitment that other people he grew up with had just as much
charisma as he did. But they weren’t dedicated to struggle. Many people grew
up with him had just as much ability but were opposite. Some of them were
negative ways. But he was able to, through his upbringing, keep things
[00:07:00] on the right path.
JJ:

So you’re saying negative ways? These were his friends?

BH:

Some of them.

JJ:

Or [worked?] with?

BH:

Some of ’em. Well, not his friends, some of ’em were people he grew up with.

JJ:

He grew up with?

BH:

Yeah. They had charisma --

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

-- and they had good things.

JJ:

So what did they do when you say negative things?

BH:

Well, some of them’d be doin’ drugs and different things like that. You know,
negative ways.

JJ:

Okay, so that was a problem here too? Inside Chicago?

BH:

Oh, yeah. The drug thing hit the Black community even in rural areas. Right, so

5

�it wasn’t just -- quite naturally, when it was in bigger cities it got more attention.
But I think drugs affected Black people all over, just like racism affected Black
people all over. Even in the suburbs, even though they would move out of the
city to the suburbs to do better, but it still was there. See, Fred realized that he
was trying to show people that even though a lot of them moved to Maywood
from neighborhoods in the city, that they still wasn’t living equal to the whites of
[every night?]. That they were better off than they were, but [00:08:00] they still
had problems. They didn’t even have a swimming pool in their neighborhood.
They had to go other places to do it. That’s what he was trying to show people,
that they still weren’t free and they still had problems to deal with.
JJ:

So he got into the NAACP after the swimming pool?

BH:

Before. Before.

JJ:

So that’s how he got into the NAACP?

BH:

Right. He was pushing the swimming pool, open housing, and all.

JJ:

(Spanish) [00:08:29]

(break in audio)
JJ:

So we’re getting to the --

BH:

Youth NAA--

JJ:

The pools, the swimming --

BH:

The Youth NACP, they would fight for open housing, jobs, and, you know,
different discrimination in the area. And then one of their main objects was the
swimming pool, were just cryin’ for years about the swimming pool in the area.
You know demonstrations was led about that and all of that. And, you know,

6

�[00:09:00] Fred went to jail a couple times. But -JJ:

He went to jail for the demon--

BH:

Demonstration for the pool.

JJ:

Here in Maywood?

BH:

Uh-huh.

JJ:

For the pool.

BH:

So --

JJ:

Okay. So he went to jail for the pool.

BH:

Uh- huh. So they were demonstrating for a while, that. And after he was in the
youth in the NACP doing things for the youth in the NACP, he met people with
SNCC like, you know, Stokely Carmichael. And he brought Stokely to Maywood
to speak once. And then he got offered to go in the Panthers, and he didn’t
make that decision right away. He didn’t want to do it right away. Then he
finally, you know, got with them --

JJ:

Did he talk to you about that or...?

BH:

Well, he talked to all the family about it and said that was a decision he wanted to
make.

JJ:

Oh, he talked to the whole family? What did he --

BH:

Different friends.

JJ:

What did he tell the family?

BH:

Well, he just said that was a decision he had made. You know, at first, he didn’t
wanna really do it. But that was a decision he had made because he felt that
they -- I guess he was gettin’ a little impatient, you know. That was the right track

7

�to make the movement go fast. He seen, like, they was movin’ faster [00:10:00]
for freedom toward Blacks. That was one of the statements he made. And then
he kind of liked it that they were really tellin’ the whole story about puttin’ all
people together. Lettin’ people know that it was a little deeper than racism. It
was really a class struggle. It was that these big forces were pitting the little
people against each other. Well, I mean the poor people. That’s why he always
said this is a Rainbow Coalition. He was talkin’ about Hispanics, Blacks, Native
Americans, Asians, and poor whites. He was putting all that together. So I think
that that inspired him to the party. And they weren’t just out there doing a cultural
nationalist thing, just talking. They were feeding people, openin’ up health
facilities, clothing programs, free bussing programs, and educatin’ people.
’Cause he used to always say, “If people are not educated, they don’t know why
they doin’ what they doin’.” And they need to be educated, that they would send
people to political orientation classes to let people know what’s happening.
Because he said, “Some people may have an emotional [00:11:00] problem
’cause they poor. And once they get something they may exploit too.” And he
used to always say, “Well we hate oppressors. Whether they -- who they may
be, Black or white. We don’t want to be oppressed by nobody.” He used to
always mention that. But I think growing up he always had a sensitivity for
people. He was always sensitive. He was easy to get along with. He didn’t like
to see nobody disrespected. He didn’t like to see nobody disrespected. He
always demanded respect and tried to get other people to demand respect for
each other. And he, at a very young age, he caught what was happening. He

8

�was taken by the Emmett Till thing you know. About Emett Till, ’cause Emmett
Till was from Chicago.
JJ:

Okay, and the Emmett Till--

BH:

We didn’t know Emmett Till.

JJ:

What was Emmet Till --

BH:

My mother knew Emmett Till.

JJ:

Oh, she knew him personally?

BH:

Well, she grew up when he was growing up. But--

JJ:

Okay. And what was the whole Emmett Till?

BH:

Well, Emmett Till, you know, he’s from Chicago. He --

JJ:

Okay, but what happened there? [00:12:00]

BH:

Well he got killed with that -- [for?] whistlin’ at a white lady in Mississippi. He was
down there on summer vacation, and some of his relatives still live in the area.
One of them lives in countryside that wrote a book, and one of them’s (inaudible)
out in Argo, Illinois, who was a part. So a lot of his relatives, you know, Emmett
Till was older than either one of us, but he was always kind of a brave-like kid,
you know, background. So that, since it was kind of close to home, that put a
little, you know, Fred’s thing, you know. And so what we’ve tried to do through
the years, we’ve, not only so much since we were a close-knit family, after Fred
died, Reverend Ralph Abernathy of SCLC, as you know, and Jesse Jackson
formed a Fred Hampton scholarship fund because Fred wanted to be a lawyer to
give out scholarships. So the good thing about that is, me and my whole family
and a lot of other friends got together on that, and every year we’ve had a

9

�[00:13:00] memorial for Fred along with giving out scholarships. And that started
in ’71, we put that together. And this is now 2012. We’ve given out 125
scholarships. So we don’t just have the memorials and the scholarships. We
also do things like registerin’ voters and try to put a conscious of people. Not just
moralize it, but make people conscious of that there’s a struggle. You know?
And keep Fred’s memory alive, because when we give the scholarships to
people, we try to get people that’s going into it to bring it back to the community,
and not just get into it for the fiscal part. But Fred would always say, “Bring your
talent, what you know, back to the community.” And that’s what we’ve tried to
do. And I’ve tried to do that. I’ve taught in the Chicago public system for a
number of years. And after I did that, as a matter of fact, I’m workin’ on a
program now, Real Men Read, to get more Black and Hispanic men to read
more. And I’ve always done a lot of reading. I was readin’ [00:14:00] real heavy
when I was six years old. My mother said I used to read to Sun-Times. And I’ve
always been an avid reader, and my whole family has been a reader, you know,
mother and father. And we were raised up that way. And they would always
make us watch the news and give us a vacation every year. I didn’t have a lot,
you know. But I guess they would consider my people, by Black standards,
middle class. You know, because my father was a painter. And my parents
worked for it.
JJ:

You said painter, regular house painter or...?

BH:

Yes p-- No well, he did some of that too, at the job. He did a lot of painting. He
was a professional painter. He used to sometimes take me and my brother with

10

�him, you know. But me and my brother -JJ:

You talkin’ about drawing artwork?

BH:

No, no. Just regular painting.

JJ:

Regular painting. Okay.

BH:

Yeah, he used to always tease me and my brother ’cause we weren’t
mechanically inclined. We more or less was academic. He used to always tease
us. Mm-hmm. He used always tease us. But you know, we’ve tried to keep that
going, and we will. And [00:15:00] it hasn’t been easy, but we’re still trying to
keep people goin’. Trying to, as much as we can, let the young people know
what things are happenin’. And a young 13-year-old kid heard about Freddie,
and we knew some of his relatives. So he interviewed us. And this is one of his
things he put together. (points to tri-fold presentation board) By a 13-year-old kid,
[Ryan Scott?]. And so we’ve had a lot of people come toward our -- me and Jeff
went to a lot of book signins, and some of them we do separate, of people
wantin’ to know. They like that book, Assassination of Fred Hampton. They like
it. As a matter fact, I’ve got to order some more because we havin’ a big Black
history symposium, February 24th. And this is Black history, when I just left
school that, you know, one knows things about Fred and that information. So the
book is even doing real well, that has helped the thing. And things like, you’re
doing with the play. Hopefully that will bring out lotta things. And you know,
you’ve been around, and [00:16:00] even Harold Washington admitted that
Fred’s death helped him become the mayor. And wow, through those, don’t look
like it, 40-some years, I think we did a pretty good job, all of us. Not just myself,

11

�but you and other people. I think we brought a lot of things out. You know, we
probably still got a long ways to go, but I think you’ve brought a lot of things out
there and keepin’ it going. And you’ve got this play comin’ up, so we need things
like that. Yeah.
JJ:

Now, you were teaching, you said, for some time.

BH:

Yeah, right. In the Chicago public school system.

JJ:

And you were reading. Okay, so what were you teaching? I mean, what kind of-

BH:

Oh, reading special education.

JJ:

Reading special education. Okay.

BH:

Right.

JJ:

Okay, now you went to the same schools that Fred was?

BH:

Yeah, we all went to the same school, yeah. (laughs)

JJ:

Okay, and you’re not that far different in age, are you?

BH:

No, just a couple years.

JJ:

Okay, so --

BH:

You know, we all went to the same grade school and high school.

JJ:

So what do you remember of you guys growing up? I mean, [00:17:00] any
problems in school or anything like that or...?

BH:

No, the only problem we had in school was, you know, back in them days you
had some racist teachers, you know. So you’d have little problems. And --

JJ:

What do you mean? What did they do?

BH:

Well, a lot of things they would say then that people wouldn’t pay as much

12

�attention to. They would have, you know, you went to a mixed school. You had
little race riots. You had teachers say little smart things and, you know, different
things like that. And those silly things, you know, you weren’t, you know, just
racism things.
JJ:

So it was mainly the teachers? You guys never got into any fights or anything
like that?

BH:

Well, yeah, there were some fights. There were, you know, racist attitudes and
we got in fights. Yes, we did. We not gonna lie about that. So that was just the
sign of the times. You know, you had guys say things, so you’d get in fights with
’em, some of ’em. [00:18:00]

JJ:

But so there weren’t a lot of African Americans in your school?

BH:

No, we had a --

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

Well, when I went to Proviso, it was about 3,000 students. (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)

JJ:

You had (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Puerto Ricans, right? You didn’t...

BH:

No, the Puerto--

JJ:

(laughs)

BH:

Well, we had Hispanics there, but we didn’t really -- there wasn’t really no fight
with them. Every now and then there might have been. But it was mostly fights
with the -- it’s kind of strange. It was fightin’ with the whites and the Italians.
Even though Italians had similar lifestyles of Black, they were caught up in a lot
of races because whites would kind of play us against them, you know, they

13

�would kind of play us against them, and Fred had taken to that. So we had those
kind of little scrimmages, you know. And, you know, when I grew up, Italians had
attitudes like a lot of Black. They were the toughest things around, so we’d test
each other. You know, we both thought we were bad, kinda. You know, even if
you were [00:19:00] an easygoing Black, that was our syndrome, sports, and you
weren’t really, as Michelle Obama used to say, “I was smart, when it wasn’t
popular to be smart.” See, in sports, people were our biggest heroes, you know,
’cause we didn’t have a whole lot of people in commerce back then, so sports
heroes was our biggest heroes. So we were, you know, [onto?] Jimmy Browns
and Wilt Chamberlains and Floyd Patterson’s, and all that kind of stuff, you know.
JJ:

Okay, like the boxers.

BH:

Yeah, they were our heroes, you know. Blacks grew up talkin’ about Joe Louis
and... And it’s just like how we use this term. We went from the heavyweight
champion to the president of the United States. So those were our heroes and
we were locked out of all other things. So it was lotta [00:20:00] people coming
from the neighborhoods, they didn’t even know each other. We’d play football
with the whites and basketball and talk at school, every now and then. But after
school, we’d go our separate ways. See, we’d go our separate ways. Every now
and then, you know, you might have a few that we get deeper into, you know,
knowing you a little better. But overall, there was a lot of hidden racism and
certain things would bring it out.

JJ:

So, you remember some of Fred’s friends, and when he was younger? What
were some of their names?

14

�BH:

There were a lotta friends we had, they’d all come here. but we had a lot of ’em,
you know, guys, [Mickey Lacey?] and [Goose?], a lot of different people, you
know. They’d all come around.

JJ:

Goose [Tereno?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

Yeah, he grew up with us, yeah.

JJ:

Oh, he grew up with you? Okay.

BH:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

JJ:

‘Cause he became a Panther later.

BH:

Yeah, well he -- somethin’ like that, [00:21:00] yeah. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

It was somethin’ like that.

BH:

You know, I knew [Nathaniel O’Neil?], but they were living in another town but I
knew them. [Robert Bruce?]. Remember him?

JJ:

Yeah.

JJ:

They would come around. He went to school with me and Fred. As a matter of
fact, he was a basketball player, he was in my typing class. (laughter) Yeah.
Teacher used to tell us our hands was too big to type. So, those kinds of racist
things, you know. Making it look like African Americans are somethin’ different.
Little silly things like that. Yeah.

JJ:

So those sort of things kept building up inside you, right?

BH:

Yeah, we would hear all those things. Me and Fred would come home, we’d talk
about different things they would say because you didn’t have that many Black
teachers up there then. So they, you know, boy there was a lot of challenges.

JJ:

So when did you become more political?

15

�BH:

Well --

JJ:

‘Bout how old were you then? [00:22:00]

BH:

My mind was always into it, I guess I got -- I didn’t join the Panthers, but I got
political, mainly, when I was in college because I was in college durin’ the time of
the Black movement, and I got, you know, political then. I saw a lot of things. My
thing then, when I grew up, was just like any other teenager. If you call
somethin’, fight ’em back and all that. It wasn’t, you know, thinkin’ about running
for anything then. It was just keep ’em off your back. You know, keep the white
folks off your back and all of that. If they want to be your friend, good. If they go
too far, kick the you-know-what. But as I got in college, my, like, maybe junior
year things began to turn for college life for Black students, and people got more
political and that. And we got more political. And a lot of guys that I knew, even
though they weren’t Panthers, they were still close to the Panthers.

JJ:

Like, and would --

BH: They were close to ’em. [00:23:00]
JJ:

Well did the studies department help them at all or...?

BH:

Well no, we had Black student unions and they would invite a lot of -- who would
invite the Panthers and different things up. And so I think that movement of ’60
got a lot of people involved in some way, and I think that’s why I hate -- I really
believe the drug thing came to kind of wipe it out because you had a lot of people
who were getting political in some kind of way, older people. And it was really a
good movement. Probably was some mistakes made.

JJ:

But then the drug thing came?

16

�BH:

Yeah, I think so. I think that came like [off-loop?] thing.

JJ:

What do you mean? How can the drug -- what do you mean?

BH:

Well, you had a lot of people say that. I think drugs was put into the Black
community to slow the movement down. And I really believe that, and they had it
on the movie Panther. They kind of was indicatin’ that. So I really think that. I
think that the movement was going real strong.

JJ:

You saw that here?

BH:

Yeah, I was seeing drugs [00:24:00] being [distribudated?] and people getting
into it. You know, people who -- students, not just people on the streets, just
professional people, getting high and smokin’ a little somethin’.

JJ:

So it wasn’t just that 60’s revolution, or...? So you think it was somethin’ that was
done intentional?

BH:

I think it was done intentionally, in some cases.

JJ:

What’s your basis --

BH:

I think it was a case of both.

JJ:

What’s your basis for that? That sayin’ that it was done intentionally? You said it
was a basis for both?

BH:

Yeah, because I think that it was done, more or less, to keep the Black sleep. To
keep them sleep because you know you go way back to the reservations, they
would get the Indians drunk and stuff. And so when you really think about it,
alcohol and all of that stuff is really somethin’ used to, even though you got -- well
we all know we got white people drink too. But in a lot of ways that stuff has
been thrown in the Black community in a lot of negative ways. You know, you

17

�got [00:25:00] different things that are thrown as people go forward, you got
things that are thrown, that way to off track things. And I think that even though
you had a drug revolution, you had different entertainers using it, different
people. Also, I really think that it was done in the Black community to off throw
things, I really do. (pause) Because if you notice during the middle of the ’70s a
lot of movement waves were dyin’ off. You know, it was like dyin’ off and people
were more anxious over getting high than they were doing something. And, you
know, Fred’s thing was, even though he had friends got high, that was never his
thing. You know, that was never his thing. I mean, you had a lot of good people
that had good ways to do things, but yet they were getting’ -- I seen people like
that, that -- you’d know some of them, they had good qualities, could have been
good, as you might want to say, revolutionaries or good [00:26:00] soldiers, and
they couldn’t really do what they wanted to do. They was too busy getting’ high.
You know?
JJ:

Yeah, yeah.

BH:

And Fred was trying to keep these people off it. He was tryin’ to keep people,
that, you know, these people, that go, to say “Hey you got brains to go the right
way.” Some of these guys couldn’t stay away from that weed. You know, they
couldn’t stay away from that weed. So you can’t -- it’s kind of hard to have -- put
militancy and drugs didn’t mix. Lotta people tried it, but it didn’t mix.

JJ:

So Fred and yourself, you didn’t any weed or anything like that?

BH:

No, abso --

JJ:

Not a lot--

18

�BH:

Smoked a little just to check it out.

JJ:

Not a lot. Just to check it out.

BH:

But not to really use it, no. Because I didn’t see anything -- I said, “What is this
doing?” You know what I mean? Didn’t -- it wasn’t, you know, because I said,
“Why do I need that to make a speech? Why I need that to pep me up?” And
the guys that end up did it, ended up getting hooked, not doing nothing.
Everything went apart, they didn’t do nothing [00:27:00] with it. So it had to be
something that stopped things. I really believe that.

JJ:

Which wasn’t with us. (laughs) We did have problems with that. (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

Well yeah, that’s just, you know --

JJ:

But he understood that. He was able to understand and try to work with us.

BH:

Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, he knew that. Yeah, right.

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

What Fred was trying to do, he was takin’ people that he knew had ability to use
your abilities to get our freedom, get out here and fight for our freedom. He was
saying all the time, “You can go overseas and fight for people you don’t know,
why not get on the battlefield for your own people here?” And that same thing he
was doing with people that were gangbangers, drug dealers. To say, “Hey,
there’s a better way that you can...” Course he couldn’t convince all of them, but,
“There’s a better way that you can serve, you know, and serve your community.”
[00:28:00]

JJ:

After Fred’s death, you said a lot of the things kind of dwindled, died out.

19

�BH:

Yeah.

JJ:

One of the problems was the drug problem.

BH:

That was one.

JJ:

But the other problem was just the leadership, the vacuum.

BH:

Yeah I think people --

JJ:

What do you think --

BH:

I think people hadn’t gotten used to -- certainly I think the Black movement itself
had a lot of charismatic leaders that were taken out. And I think a lot of African
Americans and maybe other people too got attached to that, and they weren’t
able to build from that. ’Cause that’s why Fred used to have different people
speaking and lettin’ people know that, what did they say, that there’s other
revolutionaries out there. They didn’t really get that. They got so hung up on
one person that they didn’t, you know, Black people are kinda sensitive people
so it’d take ’em a while to overcome things. [00:29:00] Whereas white America,
even though Kennedy was charismatic, they were able to put our country in
Johnson’s hands and keep it moving. So I think a lot of people became stagnant
with the Panther Party, even on Martin Luther King’s side. Malcolm X’s
movement became kind of stagnant in some ways, and it took a little while to
kinda get things moving. Right?

JJ:

‘Cause that was in 1969, but then there was a killing also of Reverend Bruce
Johnson at the Young Lords church. Were you aware of that at all?

BH:

Yeah, Bruce Johnson. Yeah, I heard of that. Sure.

JJ:

Did you know that that happened three weeks before Fred Hampton?

20

�BH:

Think around the same time, that and the Soto brothers.

JJ:

The Soto brothers.

BH:

There was another one, well, wasn’t long before Jake Winters --

JJ:

Jake Winters.

BH:

-- was killed too.

JJ:

So was there a connection with that?

BH:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

Did you see a connection or...?

BH:

I saw a big connection. I saw a big connection with that. Looked like the
[00:30:00] police just said, “Hey, we gonna get you back for that, Fred.” I think
there was a lot of retaliation by the Chicago police. I’m not saying all of ’em, but
a great number. Big retaliation. I really believe that, always will believe that.

JJ:

Now, you had that trial that lasted for several years. Was it established at that
time that this was an action by the police at the trial or was that never
established?

BH:

Well, I think it was. I think our lawyers did that, but I think that we had a judge
that wouldn’t allow it to be -- He didn’t want --

(break in audio)
BH:

I think that was known and I think we got it out enough to the public to make a lot
of people who didn’t know, know it. Because this is why Hanrahan was defeated.
The first time the Black community ever really rosed up and defeated him. See,
they realized that when they left that apartment, hopin’ that people see for
themselves. [00:31:00] That was a big mistake they made. But I think during

21

�that trial, all those long months we was in trial, they were able to put out a lot of
things, you know. And we just had the judge, Judge Perry, that did not accept it.
And I think that a lot of things were bein’ -- tryin’ to block up. That’s the reason
they gave the lawyers so much problems in court. But I think that a lot of things
come out. Hey, you know, people are still talking about Fred. They got a book
out. They’re talking about movies. They got plays. The name hasn’t gone, or
well, the name’s still out there. Every time you look up, something’s coming up
about Fred and the Panthers. So I think that they failed in a lot of ways, even
though it’s been kind of rough for us to keep things going, I think that in a lot of
ways we won. Sure, I’m not saying this to flatter nobody, but I really do because
it’s still out there. It’s still out there. All these memorials and the way the book
[00:32:00] is just selling, just different things. And people proved that when they
went to the polls against Henry. So I don’t think that things that the Panthers did
and Fred’s death is in vain. Even though we see a lot of negative stuff out here,
but I think overall it’s not in vain.
JJ:

There was a Rainbow Coalition that you mentioned.

BH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

First original one was the Young Lords, the Black Panthers --

BH:

Young Patriots, AIM, I guess was one of them.

JJ:

The first one were the Young Lords, the Black Panthers, and the Patriots.

BH:

Brown Beret? Wasn’t the group called the Brown --

JJ:

They came later.

BH:

Oh, okay. Okay.

22

�JJ:

But did he talk to you at all about that and his reasoning for that or...?

BH:

Yeah, because he just felt that they were being pitted against each other, and
they took ’em all to come together to wipe out this oppression. And he believed
that even though he was a proud Black man, he just felt that [00:33:00] all these
people that’s been oppressed, like we were, Native Americans, Hispanics, must
come together and not be pitted against each other, but must come together and
wipe them out. That was really his name. He’d talk to me about that. We would
talk about that.

JJ:

So he was proud to be a Black man.

BH:

Yeah. But at the same time, he knew that Hispanic people, poor white people,
Asian people, and Native Americans, what have you, all were being oppressed
and used against each other. He was able to see that whole thing, that whole
thing, synopsis. And then he just tried to put it all together. And I think that’s why
that they came so strong on him because he was waking people up, different,
you know, different races up. That would have been a powerful thing, you know.

JJ:

Why [00:34:00] didn’t you ever join the Panthers then? Did you have a problem
with some of their philosophy...?

BH:

No, somethin’ I just didn’t ever do. I just never joined them. I thought about it
when I was workin’ so closely. I just didn’t really get into it. That’s a good
question. I never even -- I probably don’t even know that myself. I thought about
it, but I just never, you know, never got into it. I felt like I was ’cause I’d be at
some of they programs and different things, you know. Yeah.

JJ:

Were you active at that time or...?

23

�BH:

Yeah, I was real active at the Black Student Union, and I was doing a lot of
programs with the party. Like, folks would come around. It’s how I met you.
(inaudible) was joining it and all that. Nothing against it. I just, you know, not
really, no. I had chances to. I thought about it, but I just... I don’t know. And he
never pushed me to join. His attitude was always, [00:35:00] he had a lot of
friends was what he was just saying. Everybody didn’t probably wanna be in it.
He was a kinda funny person. He never did push people to really join it. His
main thing was keeping people active because he was always -- he had a lot of
friends who -- he was really trying to set up somethin’. He had a lot of people
who weren’t Panthers that had watchin’ his back, doin’ different things. You
know, Fred had so many things going on. He had people who weren’t in the
party doing things for him, you know, ’cause had that type of personality that he’d
go to schools and speak when he wanted to and all that. Course, when he got
killed, you had a lot of Black students, kids from colleges, comin’ to his aid.

JJ:

So where was he goin’ to school?

BH:

Yeah, didn’t he have a good rapport with a lot ministers and stuff? Well, he
started off at Triton College. Then he went to Wright, for a little while. Then he
went to Malcolm X. He went to about four and [00:36:00] then U of I, he’d went
to Illinois.

JJ:

Did he go to Roosevelt when you were younger?

BH:

No, he’d be up there a lot speaking.

JJ:

Speaking.

BH:

To Roosevelt.

24

�JJ:

But his last school was where?

BH:

I’m trying to think. Was it Malcolm X or U of I? That’s a good question, because
he was at Malcolm X. It was Crane when they changed the name. He was
instrumental in that, when they changed the name from Crane Junior College to
Malcolm X. I’m tryin’ to think. Was he at Malcolm X or U of I? It was around the
same time. Maybe Malcolm X could have been later, maybe U of I was before.
But he was at the University of Illinois at some point. And he was also close with
a lot of labor people, because he worked at Harvester. So he was active with a
lot of union people.

JJ:

He worked at Harvester? What did he do there? [00:37:00]

BH:

It was just regular labor. He was just workin’ his way through school workin’
there. And me and him used to work at Corn Products, where my parents
worked because they got both jobs. We were both working our way through
college.

JJ:

What was Corn Products like? Any --

BH:

Was a lotta people worked there. It was interesting. A lot of young people
working there for the summer like we was. You know, we’d talk, meet a lotta
people.

JJ:

It was kind of fun going to college because we was at different colleges. We
would be changing clothes, you know. We would wear some one place and he
would wear some other places. It was kind of strange, you know. Kind of
strange. But we were at Corn Products, yeah we was workin’ our way through
school there.

25

�JJ:

Did you guys ever fight or anything like that, physical or...?

BH:

No, we wrestled a lot together.

JJ:

Wrestling?

BH:

Yeah, we wrestled a lot. Tusslin’. My father would find out we were tusslin’, say
he didn’t want no more tusslin’. If he ever caught us, it’d [be too bad], better do it
outside. Because we would -- you know parents, we didn’t have a carpet on the
floor. We had it like this. We just took these out where the carpet. [00:38:00]
We were growin’ up, we’d be tusslin’. And friends come over and me and him’d
be tusslin’. He’d say, “Well, no. I better not catch you wrestlin’ over here.” Well
he was the type of guy what he said, he meant. (laughs)

JJ:

So you guys never really got into (inaudible) argument or anything?

BH:

(inaudible) Not a whole lot. No, not a whole lot really.

JJ:

Your mother said he demanded, kind of, respect from different people or...?

BH:

Yeah.

JJ:

And he looked out for the --

JJ:

He wasn’t the type of guy to pick the fight or nothin’. He didn’t pick any fights.
He was the type of guy that had attitude, we didn’t talk. And if he didn’t wanna
talk, we could go another way. That was the type of attitude he had. ’Cause he
didn’t get really popular maybe till his last years in school ’cause he was just an
ordinary little guy. Then he just jumped up.

JJ:

What do you mean, ordinary little guy?

BH:

Well, he was just ordinary. Just a little -- see, everybody thought he was gonna
be [00:39:00] short, but he ended up growing up real big, you know. He just

26

�kinda got popular in his last year.
JJ:

Popular in what way?

BH:

Well, in sports just, you know, I guess.

JJ:

Was he good at sports or...?

BH:

He was kinda laid back at first, but he was pretty good. He kind of got more, I
guess, developed a way of getting’ more noticed or something.

JJ:

Growing up, I know he had a lot of conviction at the end, but growing up -- you
know what I’m sayin’? How was his conviction? What I mean by conviction,
when he believed in something, was it firmly or...?

BH:

Yeah.

JJ:

I mean what would expect --

BH:

Mm-hmm, yeah. He was deep in his convictions ’cause used to say he wanted
to be a lawyer, not just to make money, but to help people. So he had deep,
[00:40:00] deep convictions, you know. Even though he became a popular
person in school, he always shared with the less fortunate. He always had a
kinda feeling for people, kinda felt sorry for people. I mean, he’d laugh and joke
and play, but he was always -- like to read. And he would take part in things that
most people wouldn’t, that wasn’t interesting to most Blacks and Hispanics. But
they didn’t bother him because he was into sports and had a certain strong
nature. I mean, he wasn’t one of these kids that just read all the time, so nobody
could just say he was a sissy because he was into sports and did things that
other people did. Dance, signified, you know, he was kind of, like, well-rounded,
he could do either one. But he didn’t stop what he wanted to do because of his

27

�friends. Because sometimes, junior achievement back then, you couldn’t get
many Blacks into that, but he’d go by hisself. He wouldn’t let nobody stop his
[00:41:00] advancement in life. He was that type. He wanted to do something,
he did. And he wouldn’t wait around, but he tried to encourage people to get into
it with him. If they didn’t, he just, you know... He was definitely the lead. He was
definitely a man that thought of on his own.
JJ:

You say he was kind of well-rounded, he liked to dance and everything? Was he
an average dancer?

BH:

No, he was a good dancer.

JJ:

A pretty good dancer?

BH:

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

JJ:

What kind of moves, I mean what kinda...?

BH:

Good, he was good at it. He was good at it. He --

JJ:

What was that period? What kind of dancing?

BH:

Let me see, what was that, Watusi --

JJ:

Oh, the Watusi?

BH:

-- mashed potatoes, all that stuff. Yeah, he was good at it, he didn’t... As he got
older, he got more intellectual. But he was always able to communicate because
he did things that most people do. [00:42:00] See like you had some people, if
they were into being intellectual, they were that alone. By him being in sports
and different things, people were able to relate to him because he did more of
that, you know, like they did.

JJ:

And that school that he was going to here, that’s the school that we’re talking

28

�about, right? The one in Maywood?
BH:

Yeah, we all went to same schools.

JJ:

Which was Proviso?

BH:

Yeah, that’s the high school.

JJ:

Okay, that’s a big high school and so everybody knows each other.

BH:

Well, it was a big high school, everybody didn’t know each other. I guess most of
the Blacks knew each other.

JJ:

But most of --

BH:

But everybody didn’t know each other.

JJ:

Bue most of the Blacks knew each other

BH:

Yeah, I guess out of the first --

JJ:

So, it was, like, segregated?

BH:

I guess out of the --

JJ:

So it was segregated?

BH:

Well--

JJ:

They didn’t know each other yet.

BH:

No, the whites knew some of the whites but there were so many because it was
segregated in the sense that even though you were going to school with the
whites, the Blacks were still in their own world, in their own area. You know what
I mean? Blacks were still -- you didn’t read and party with the whites on the
weekends. They’d be a little different now. You’d go to basketball games,
[00:43:00] the Blacks kind of be with each other, the whites be with each other,
you know. They did some things together. You know, like if they would give a

29

�thing at school, sometimes they’d mix but it wasn’t -- No, Blacks mostly stayed
because some of the parents, I guess, didn’t want it. So, the Blacks kinda stayed
in their own area. So I guess some of the parents didn’t allow -- later on you start
seeing couples. Mm-hmm.
M1:

Yeah, they were slick.

BH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. So --

F1:

Excuse me.

JJ:

That’s all right.

F1:

Thank you.

JJ:

So, they started (inaudible)

BH:

Overall, they did.

JJ:

Were there any brawls? Any fights at all? (inaudible)

BH:

Yes. Every night there was a brawl. That’s why they started the cross-section
committee. Yeah, the brawls.

JJ:

The cross-section committee was to what, to...?

BH:

Stop the riots and [00:44:00] pull students together more.

JJ:

Because there were riots in the school?

BH:

Yeah. Every night there were riots. Like most schools back then, you know,
you’d have riots, you know, mixed schools.

JJ:

What year was this?

BH:

We’re talkin’ about the ’60s, middle ’60s.

JJ:

Middle ’60s?

30

�BH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. So there was riots at the school?

BH:

Lotta schools, you know. Like, you know, schools like not just Proviso. You hear
about schools that were mixed in the city. Like Lane Tech would be bussin’
Blacks from different parts of the city. That’s why they had good sports team
because Lane Tech was all boys once, but you had people from all over the city
goin’ to Lane Tech. And there was in another school in the city, that was
Chicago Vocational. They would have riots there because it was mixed.
Marshall, when I was going there, turned mostly all Black. But, before me, they
tell me it was all Jewish, they tell me. And Farragut was kind of mixed, [00:45:00]
so they’d have they little problems. Tilden was kind of mixed. It was all boys
when I was around. So yeah, certain schools in the city that they had little
problems where they were mixed. You’d hear stories. Lindblom, comin’ to
whites and Blacks going through certain areas to go to school. They’d have their
little problems. You’d hear about it.

JJ:

Getting back because we’re gonna kinda of finish up pretty soon. Trying to make
a connection in terms of the Young Lords and the Black Panthers --

BH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

What do you remember about that? And what was your first contact?

BH:

My first contact was that you had Blacks and Puerto Ricans coming together.
When I used to hear talk about, I guess when the Puerto Rican community
started comin’ in Chicago, when I was a kid, they were mostly on the West Side, I
think. And I used to hear problems Blacks and Puerto Ricans havin’. [00:46:00]

31

�Fightin’ every night, and I’d hear a lot of that. And I met some Puerto Ricans
when I was in college.
JJ:

You said West Side. Where, around Madison?

BH:

You know, I don’t know. I just hear Blacks talk about Puerto Ricans and things
like that.

JJ:

What year was this?

BH:

No, they were Puerto Ricans fighting with knives and you know, different little
things. Same thing I hear up in New York. The same things going on up there.
They killing one another. Stokely Carmichael talked about that. And I would
hear a lot about that. I met some Black Cubans and different things like that.
And I found later, was some Black Puerto Ricans. But as I got to know, mingled
with Puerto Ricans, they were better than the Mexicans. I got along with them a
little better. But like I said, a lot of things, I’d hear. So I’d hear Blacks, they have
conflicts over the West Side. Then the Puerto Rican community started moving
more, what, north-west or...? [00:47:00]

JJ:

North-west, yeah.

BH:

Mm-hmm. I guess the Puerto Rican community started coming to Chicago, that
was maybe in the ’50s, maybe.

JJ:

In the ’50s, they were in the West Side.

BH:

Yes, they were. I heard a lotta talk about that.

JJ:

They were around Madison.

BH:

That’s what I heard a lotta talk about.

JJ:

Madison kids.

32

�BH:

Oh, was it? Yeah, I heard a lot of talk about it. There were a lot of conflicts with
Blacks and Puerto Ricans.

JJ:

Right, right.

BH:

And my brother, you see, I had, like I said, when I went to college, I got a
different perspective. We used to go to Duncan Y, and I met a lot of Puerto
Rican guys. And, you know, they were similar to Blacks, if I got to meet ’em, The
Mexicans were, if I got to meet them, they were different, too. But Puerto Ricans
seemed to be a little more -- I got along with them a lot better. They seemed to
be a lot more like us. And a lot of that was just through, you know, looked like
everybody was after Blacks. And I’m sure that this sort of kept a lot of people at
our throats, you know. Though some of the Black Cubans, you know, it took time
to get with them, you know. So [00:48:00] the Black Cubans, they was kinda
weird.

JJ:

But what -- your connection to the Young Lords, specifically? (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

Well, when I met the Young Lords, they were okay with me. I was good, you
know. I met you and I always thought you were, you know. We always got
along. I see you at the office, you know. We’d go up on the roof.

JJ:

At the office, there...

BH:

On Madison.

JJ:

On Madison.

BH:

Yeah.

JJ:

Panther office.

33

�BH:

Yeah, so okay, you know, I always hear name Cha-cha, and my brother used to
always tease and they always said we passed. And they said he could pass
because he looked more white than Puerto Ricans. So I would say that, you
know, it was okay, but at that time I learned more about different people. I
learned more about the Puerto Ricans, you know. And so that was that.
Chicago was a funny city because it got all these ethnics, you know. That
created a lot of weirdness, you know. Got your Chinese community, Chinatown,
your Greektown, Little Italy. And you see [00:49:00] it’s kind of strange because
some places I went, Italians felt close to Black people. Some places I went, they
didn’t like ’em. And it was kind of, it was all crazy stuff. I met hillbillies with
money that didn’t like poor hillbillies in Uptown. I met Hispanics with money that
didn’t like, that didn’t care for, Hispanics. You know, Blacks that had a little
somethin’ but they lived way south, they didn’t like the West Side Blacks. You
know, once a lot of Blacks come here from the South, once they get on their feet
and get something, then they kind of look down on the other ones. And I’ve seen
that with other nationalities too. So it was kind of strange, you know. So when
they put the coalition together, that was really a good thing. Some people didn’t
really wanna accept it, you know. But that’s either here or there. Well, I thought
Young Lords was a real good thing, you know, because [00:50:00] they suffered.
I thought that the coalition was real good. I didn’t have no problem with them. It
was kinda hard for me to get used to some of the young patrons because you
think about hillbillies, you think about things that happened in the South. But, you
know, most of them I got along with that I met. Slim Coleman, I always got along

34

�with him, you know. He was alright, I guess. Some of the Native Americans I
met, they were okay ’cause I got a little Native American in me, Cherokee Indian
in me. My great-grandmother was Native American. So, you know, after I got
there, I thought the coalition was a good thing. I thought it was good. I thought
that’s why the system didn’t really want that. That’s something they didn’t really
want. They really didn’t want that, you know. And I think that’s what Dr. King
[00:51:00] was talkin’ about the poor people’s march in Washington. All those
things that they didn’t really want. I thought it was good, but I saw the Young
Lords as a positive thing, you know. I know they came out of a gang and into
doin’ something political. I heard that they were a gang, but I didn’t know -- I
used to hear about the Vice Lords, the Taylor Street Dukes. You heard of them?
Used to be an Italian gang and Polish playboys. But I never heard much about
the Young Lords as a gang. I knew they were Puerto Rican gangs, but I didn’t.
And then the Young Lords they’ve made today, you know. I’m kind of interested.
So they were a gang at first.
JJ:

Yeah.

BH:

(laughs) I had a cousin that was a midget Vice Lord, you know. So what, did the
Young Lords start over on the West Side? Or they started...?

JJ:

No, no. Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park.

BH:

Oh, ok.

JJ:

Lincoln Park in Old Town. [00:52:00]

BH:

So when the Puerto Rican population come here, when they were running wild
over there on the West Side, did they have Puerto Rican gangs over there?

35

�JJ:

There was a Puerto Rican population on [Lisle?] and Chicago, everything.

BH:

I think I heard that. I remember that.

JJ:

And then that moved to Lincoln Park.

BH:

Oh, ok.

JJ:

It went to --

BH:

But when the --

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

BH:

-- but when the Puerto Ricans on the West Side, did they have any gangs?

JJ:

Oh, yeah, there were gangs all the time because we were right in front --

BH:

But not no known gangs really, huh?

JJ:

We were right in front of the Italians and Irish, so we were fighting them too. You
know, at that same time.

BH:

Talkin’ about when you on the West Side?

JJ:

Yeah, no. As the neighborhood was changing, we were fighting the newcomers.

BH:

Oh, ok. Oh.

JJ:

They were the newcomers.

BH:

So you were fighting the Italians too and all that, yeah.

JJ:

Yeah, we were fighting them too.

BH:

Hmm.

JJ:

And they were probably fighting other people too, and it just an --

(break in audio)
BH:

They were battling, huh.

JJ:

Yeah, everybody was battling, you know, the youth. If you’re from Chicago,

36

�you’re in the gang, I guess.
BH:

Uh-huh.

JJ:

But then over here, [00:53:00] Freddy’s in the NAACP and he’s doing a lot of
political stuff already at that age. What got you into the political stuff? I mean,
were your parents involved or...?

BH:

Not a whole lot, they just was union workers.

JJ:

And they were union workers.

BH:

Right. And then they would always keep up with things that were goin’ on.

JJ:

In the union?

BH:

No, just keep up with things in the world. We always was interested in what was
going on, so it wasn’t no surprise that we got into it. My brother made a big step
with the Panthers, had to make the big step like he did. We were always
interested in what King was doing and things like that. We were followin’ it. Lotta
people did, but a lotta people really didn’t get into it that deep. Because a lot of
people weren’t in that nonviolent kick. And then some people thought that
Malcolm X was going too fast. So yeah, it was always on how am I, the political
thing. It was always [00:54:00] ’cause I kept up with everything and knew who
was doing what, you know. And then finally I just felt that I had to get out there
with ’em because you’d go to school and people talk about what would happen.
You know, you hear things about Selma, you’d experience different things. And
some people had saw this stuff for so long, they just looked at it as a way of
everyday life. They got captivated, “Well okay, I don’t like what they -- you know,
I went downtown, and I went in this neighborhood and they did that.” But they

37

�get in their own neighborhood and I guess they felt safe and just said, “Well, it
ain’t gonna change. Just give up.” So I think that’s, what, after I saw the Stokely
Carmichaels and the Kings and all of that. Say well hey, I better not just talk
about how bad they’re doing, just be a part of it in some kind of way. [00:55:00]
And since I got involved with it, I like it. I like it. I guess it’s in my blood now.
JJ:

What are some of your plans for the scholarship?

BH:

To keep giving them out and maybe to extend it to other fields. We gotta get the
money, you know, because with this Bush administration, a lot of our funds got
cut. So we get funds but it’s nothing like we used to. So we just want to keep
giving funds and build it even bigger.

JJ:

Was the bust of Fred Hampton, was that part of the scholarship fund?

BH:

No, I raised some money myself, but the community State Rep Karen Yarbrough
was able to allocate the money, and the village of Maywood gave some so they
were able to, the committee, people of [00:56:00] Maywood voted on it, the
council that helped some of the money. They would give money to do that.

JJ:

So you got the whole council of Maywood working on renaming the pool Fred
Hampton.

BH:

Yeah, they voted on it. Matter fact, when they named the pool after Fred, we had
a white mayor. And it was three white -- it was six trustees. Three whites voted
against it, three Blacks voted for it. Then the mayor come in and break the tie.
He caught hell for it too. (laughs) They didn’t reelect him either. I felt sorry for
him. We stayed close, but he caught hell for that. ’Cause he knew Fred and he
had a good... So that was just right. You weren’t out here that night. You had a

38

�lot of ex-Panthers out here. It was all jammed when they made this, oh boy,
whites on one side and Blacks, oh boy, it was something else. It was really
something. You know, it was some [00:57:00] kind of night. That was not long
after Fred got killed in the ’70s, they named the pool.
M1:

Yep, they did it.

JJ:

When did people start again being active? For a while they were not active. I
think we tried to do something up north with the aldermanic campaign. I don’t
know if you remember it from that time during ’75 or...?

BH:

I remember that, yeah. I think when people become active again, it might have
been like the late ’70s when the Reagan thing start comin’ in. It kind of forced
people to kinda get a little bit active. Then Harold Washington, he not only won
the mayor, he sorta, like -- a movement was built around him. Brought a
movement back to life a little bit, I think. Don’t you think so?

JJ:

Oh yeah.

BH:

You know, it kinda came back to movement days beginnin’ to come back. It’s
just [00:58:00] that people weren’t working as close as they used to. ’Cause I
remember when that was a problem, a crazy killing or something in the
community, even though they didn’t agree, I remember the NAACP and Panthers
and [CORE?] and everybody all on the same stage. Well, Young Lords, you
know, gangs, ’cause everybody wanted to get together and do something about
it. Now it’s this kinda like, you don’t have that now. Maybe tryin’ to get back
there, but you don’t have that enthusiasm then.

JJ:

Okay, we’ll kind of finish it up a little bit. What do you think we missed that we

39

�need to kinda bring out? Fred Hampton, in terms of his legacy and that, that you
wanted to bring out.
BH:

If I may, if people wanna keep Fred’s legacy alive, that people have to, [00:59:00]
just in simple form, remember his dedication, remember to be real men and
women, to stand up, and not be sold out. ’Cause I think that’s what Fred -- Fred
didn’t sell out. I think you couldn’t buy him, and I think what people have to
realize is that, you know, they can just stand up as men and women, don’t have
to be bought out. I think a lot of people are using excuses to be bought out. I
think that that’s just something that Fred wouldn’t go for ’cause I think that people
gotta realize if they got to be bought out to become of a certain political position,
they don’t need it. Because if you gonna do one thing one way, then you
hypocritical. You’re not gonna do it another way. So we need to make our
leaders, as Fred would have did, more accountable. We need to make ’em more
accountable.

JJ:

Okay.

BH:

I think [01:00:00] people should keep the work that Fred, the Panthers, the
Young Lords did, I’m serious, they need to keep it alive, is not let it die. Keep it
alive. You know, do something every year to bring the focus out, to keep the
young people from running around. And some old people who got the wrong
information, give them the right information. I think they need to keep it going.

JJ:

Okay.

END OF VIDEO FILE

40

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The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. </text>
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              <text>Bill Hampton era un maestro en las escuelas de Chicago y también el hermano de Fred Hampton, quien fue el vicepresidente de la sección del Black Panther Party en Illinois. Fred Hampton fue asesinado en la mañana del 4 de Diciembre 1969 por un equipo especial de policía. Bill Hampton creció en Maywood, Illinois, donde organizo un a conmemoración anual en recuerdo de su hermano que fue atendido por líderes del cívico y la comunidad. En Maywood, Señor Hampton corre un programa de seguridad en el tráfico y como director de Midwest Voter Aliance, organizo y coordino para Barak Obama durante su primera ves corriendo por presidente.</text>
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                    <text>Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Iberia Hampton
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 2/9/2012

Biography and Description
English
Iberia Hampton is the mother of murdered Illinois Black Panther Party Chairman Fred Hampton, as well
as Dee and Bill Hampton. Throughout her life she has been active within her church and the community.
She contributes time and money each year to organize a family reunion traveling to her southern
birthplace to remember her son, husband, and other relatives that have passed at their gravesites.
Along with Bill Hampton and the board, Mrs. Iberia Hampton is the primary organizer of the annual
celebration of the Fred Hampton Scholarship Fund. Her keen and natural brilliance stands out in this
interview, as well as how humble, friendly and kind she remains, even after the proven government
corruption that led to the brutal loss of her son.

Spanish
Iberia Hampton es la madre de Fred Hamton, al vicepresidente quien fue asesinado, y también madre de
Dee y Bill Hampton. Durante su vida fue dedicada en su iglesia y comunidad. Contribuye tiempo y dinero
para organizar una reunión con su familia en que van a visitar en donde nació y donde esta enterrado su
hijo, esposo, y otros familiares. Con su hijo, Bill, y otros miembros Señora Hampton organiza le
celebración del Fred Hampton Scholarship fund. Su profunda y genialidad natural brilla en este

�entrevista igual que como humilde y agradable ella todavía es, aunque la corrupción en el gobierno le
tomo la vida de un hijo.

�Transcript

IBERIA HAMPTON: (inaudible) some of us don’t leave here to go back (inaudible), and
we always stayed a extra week. [With the extra week, we have to?] clean the
farm up and [stuff, fixing the house up. Something?] real nice.
JOSE JIMENEZ:

So, when you go there, you went to the cemetery to fix it up, you

said?
IH:

Go to the cemetery?

JJ:

Is that what you said?

IH:

Mm-hmm, yeah. Go to the cemetery.

JJ:

I mean [when you would go there?]. Who were you talking -- you’re talking about
Fred?

IH:

I got Fred down there. My husband’s down there too.

JJ:

Your husband’s down there now.

IH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. So, (inaudible).

IH:

Yeah.

JJ:

Your husband.

IH:

Mm-hmm. [Fred’s there?].

JJ:

And this is done every year?

IH:

[Mm-hmm, I do every year?].

JJ:

On Mother’s Day.

IH:

Mm-hmm. Go every year.

1

�JJ:

That’s beautiful. Yeah.

IH:

When Fred was -- [you’ve got?] pictures of Fred there. When he was little,
[00:01:00] he went every year too. [They’ve been?] going every year since they
was little kids. They always got a vacation, all their life.

JJ:

And you made sure it was Mother’s Day.

IH:

Yeah. No. No. They got a vacation. It wasn’t Mother’s Day all the time.
Sometimes, they got it for Easter. Whatever time. See, when he was working,
we got it whatever time he got the days off. Then, we left (inaudible). He said,
“We can take a week for Easter if you want to.” [We said?], “Okay, we’ll go.”
(inaudible) for Easter. Then, after we got Bill, they didn’t want Easter. They
wanted a different day. They wanted it to be later [so they had?] more time. The
kids did. [And, see, at the start of?] that time, I wasn’t working. (inaudible). He’d
take his time off.

JJ:

[00:02:00] That’s beautiful. I mean, I wish we could do that. I mean, we’re from
the country too. We’re in Puerto Rico.

IH:

Yeah.

JJ:

[Same thing?]. But (inaudible).

IH:

[It’s a good time?]

JJ:

Are you ever planning to go back there just to stay, or you’re going to stay here?

IH:

(inaudible) [to live by?] my kids are here.

JJ:

You don’t want to go down there?

IH:

[I’d go down there to meet ’em?], but --

JJ:

But not to live.

2

�IH:

-- not to live. I won’t go there to live. My kids are here, and most of my people
are scattered around. We just got -- there’s three houses now on the farm
(inaudible) bad shape. We’re thinkin’ about how we’re gonna fix them.

JJ:

So, most of the kids and everybody’s here. In Maywood, or --?

IH:

My kids?

JJ:

Yeah. The two kids are here --

IH:

[00:03:00] Uh-huh.

JJ:

-- but I’m saying --

IH:

They’re both here.

JJ:

But the rest of the family is here, I mean?

IH:

Uh-huh, yeah. My --

JJ:

I mean, how many brothers and sisters did you have?

IH:

My brothers and sisters? Oh, I don’t have any brother and sister. I’m an only
child.

JJ:

Oh, you’re an only child?

IH:

Uh-huh. I had one sister and two brothers [before, but?] they’re all dead except
me. I’m the only one living.

JJ:

Okay. And what about Francis?

IH:

[Frankie?]. His family’s [out in?] California. California, Arkansas, (pause) Texas,
and -- [where was Libby?]?

P1:

[00:04:00] When she was living, she was living in Las Vegas.

IH:

Yeah. Yeah.

P1:

[She’s dead now?].

3

�IH:

Yeah. Las Vegas. [Yeah, she’s?] Las Vegas, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana. I
think [that’s all of it?]. (inaudible). California. Mm-hmm. My sister lived in
Louisiana, and my brother lived here. My other brother was -- he was in -- he
lived in all different places. [He was?] --

JJ:

What about, like, Fred Jr.? I mean, you spent a little time with Fred Jr.?

IH:

[He would see me the night before last?] (inaudible).

JJ:

[A night before?] (inaudible).

IH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

[How did it happen?]? Did you enjoy [00:05:00] [him growing up?]?

IH:

Oh, I love him.

JJ:

You love him?

IH:

Yeah, I love him.

JJ:

Anything that you remember when he was a child, or --?

IH:

Mm-hmm. [I would?] take him outside with me all the time on vacation. [Yeah,
he was?] right with me. (inaudible) [nothing for me to cook him or anything?].

JJ:

What does he like? What does he like?

IH:

Huh?

JJ:

What does he like the best?

IH:

What do I make for him?

JJ:

Yeah.

IH:

Cabbage and fish. [He likes?] cabbage and fish. (inaudible) [I get it?] (inaudible)
[came out?] (inaudible). He told me [he’ll be back Friday?].

4

�JJ:

Okay. All right. Well, let me -- I was gonna ask you a few questions, but -- so, let
me -- [00:06:00] anything that we should add about Fred or yourself that you
think we should add to this video?

IH:

Uh-uh. (inaudible).

JJ:

Okay.

IH:

Uh-uh.

JJ:

Well, I appreciate it. I just wanted to put that on because I’m going to interview
your son, but I wanted to [put a few things out?]. Since I’m here, I wanted to
make sure that I get something from you.

IH:

Okay.

JJ:

I appreciate that.

IH:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

And happy birthday.

IH:

Thank you.

END OF VIDEO FILE

5

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran's History Project
Vietnam
William Hand
Total Time (00:47:18)
Introduction (00:00:30)
 Bill was born in 1946 in Dallas, Texas; his father was in the Marine Corps as his family
bounced around until Bill was ten years old when his family settled down in Houston, Texas
(00:01:01)
◦ His father was the sergeant major of the recruiting station in Houston, Texas (00:01:15)
▪ Bill graduated from Spring Ranch High School in Houston and went on to the
University of Houston (00:01:32)
 Bill majored in accounting at the University of Houston although his focus was to go
into the Army and receive his commission; the degree was secondary to getting his
commission (00:02:17)
◦ He went into the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) through the
University of Houston and graduated as a distinguished military graduate which
earned him a regular army commission; he graduated in 1969 (00:03:07)
◦ Bill went to Ft. Benning in Columbus, Georgia for infantry officer basic corps
and then to airborne school and spent five months in the 82nd airborne until he
received his orders to go to Vietnam (00:03:28)
Arrival &amp; Time in Vietnam (00:03:28)
 Bill arrived in Vietnam in June of 1970 and became a platoon leader in the 2nd Battalion, 506th
Infantry Regiment in the 101st Airborne Division (00:03:42)
◦ Bill never had more than 24 men in his platoon while in Vietnam; it was more of two
reinforced squads than a full strength platoon (00:05:13)
▪ The 2nd day he was in Vietnam, Bill and his platoon went into Ripcord Fire Base as they
rotated companies around the firebase periodically (00:06:47)
 Their main mission was to protect the artillery batteries and the battalion
headquarters (00:07:28)
 Bill felt he was accepted quite well once he got into Vietnam and mentions at the
Ripcord reunions that his reception went over fine as well (00:09:13)
◦ Bill's goal was to get the mission done and protect his men; he never wanted to
lose a man to a booby trap- he was fairly successful and only lost two men while
he was a platoon leader (00:09:47)
◦ Bill describes how he lost those two men and how they could have been
prevented- although it is just one of those things you have to live with and you
cannot tear yourself apart about it (00:11:33)
▪ Once Bill's unit was evacuated from Ripcord, he notes that every time his
company got into something, they were brought out because they did not
want his group to experience what they did at Ripcord- they didn't want his
group to incur anymore major losses (00:12:34)
▪ Bill mentions one of his biggest problems while in Vietnam was to keep drug
dealers from selling to his troops (00:16:46)
▪ He nor his troops never had any problems with drug use once they went out

�▪

▪

into the field; the troops policed themselves in a way (00:17:04)
One of Bill's medics noted that he did not want to go to the rear area because
it was notorious for drinking; once the medic came back from the rear he did
not have withdrawal problems (00:18:14)
Bill found marijuana, heroin, and opium in an ammunition container one
time; that was the only time Bill encountered something like that in his sector
(00:20:07)
 Bill went to Jungle School for two weeks in Panama after Vietnam
(00:22:47)
◦ He was taught how to survive in the jungle, how to operate land
navigation, defensive positions and other positions as well (00:23:06)
▪ Bill mentioned some of the other fire bases acquired beer
occasionally but that never happened for him (00:25:15)
▪ Other than letters, Bill would send cassettes back to keep in touch
with family and friends (00:27:08)
◦ At Camp Evans in Vietnam, the air force had air condition, cold
beers, movies- all in the rear; he mentions the air force had all the
good stuff everywhere you went (00:28:32)

Coming Home /Race Relations/Back to Duty (00:28:34)
 Bill came home in June of 1971; when Bill came back from Vietnam he felt unlike how soldiers
feel today: parades and affection, there was none of that and people would often stare at soldiers
if they were in uniform- people made nasty comments as well (00:29:16)
◦ The worst experience for Bill was seeing wounded soldiers come home and how much
nobody cared about it (00:29:28)
▪ A few years ago, Bill experienced thank you celebration to Vietnam veterans from Ft.
Benning in Columbus, Georgia (00:30:07)


Race relations were okay while in Vietnam except the rear; Bill mentions there wasn't much
interplay between blacks and whites (00:31:56)
◦ For Bill, the only issues that ever happened between race was in the rear; in the field,
everyone was tight and if they weren't the people in the platoon would take care of it- black
or white (00:32:26)
◦ Bill would not put up with any racial problems- he told his men that they were “one army,
one unit, and if you can't live with that then you don't need to be here” (00:33:50)



After Vietnam, Bill went to Ft. Benning and then on to Germany for three years (00:35:28)
◦ Bill was stuck in a headquarters in Heidelberg, Germany; he became the commander of the
headquarters company (00:35:54)
◦ It took about eight or nine years to make major after he had made captain status (00:36:51)
▪ After Germany, Bill went to Ft. Hood located in Killeen, Texas (00:37:52)
 After Ft. Hood, Bill came back to Ft. Benning; he became the Deputy Chief of a
mechanized unit for three years (00:39:32)
 After Ft. Benning, he went to Egypt for a year; he was the Deputy Chief of the
liaison system in Sinai (00:40:02)
 After Egypt, he worked with the 3rd Army in the G3 for three years (00:40:50)
◦ After retirement, Bill said he couldn't complain about his 23 years in the military

�(00:44:00)
Retirement &amp; Beyond (00:44:00)
 Bill retired in 1992 (00:44:14)
 One of Bill's first jobs after his retirement was to help train Saudi Arabians with equipment
(00:44:29)
◦ Bill mentions he was missing too much of family life and decided to resign while in Saudi
Arabia; the Prince of Saudi Arabia was disappointed initially but then supportive of Bill's
decisions once he learned why (00:46:16)

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam War
Terry Handley

2:02:34
Introduction (00:26)








Terry was born in Niles, Michigan. The first of two sons to Elmer and Eileen Handley on
December 30, 1947.
His father was in the skilled trade at Clark Equipment Company as a welder. He later
worked in the testing department on earth moving machines. His mother went to work at
Electro-Voice, which was a speaker manufacturer in Buchanan, Michigan.
When Terry and his brother were out of school, his mother went back to school and
became a registered nurse.
He grew up north of Buchanan, and that is where he went to high school. (02:16)
Terry played football growing up, and he graduated from high school in 1966.
After high school, he attended LMC (Lake Michigan College) for business
administration. He obtained his associates degree.
In 1968, Terry enlisted for two years because he knew he was going to be drafted. He
wanted to be thought of as regular army instead of being a draftee.

Military Service (04:03)










Terry planned on doing what he needed to succeed and ended up being a squad leader
and then a platoon guide.
When he was eighteen, he went to Detroit to register for the draft and they stayed at the
Pontchartrain Hotel.
While there, he went down to a bar to get some drinks and he later learned that the bar
was predominantly black and the neighborhood was not safe for him.
Having grown up with other minorities, he was not prejudiced and did not look at
people‟s skin color. He never used the „N‟ word growing up and neither did his family.
(06:19)
At Detroit, he had his physical and he could see many people that were trying to fail so
they wouldn‟t be drafted.
Terry went to Detroit in 1966, and was given a college deferment for two years while he
was going to school.
At the time, he did not pay much attention to world events and was just trying to focus on
his career in retail. (08:29)
He was not anti-Vietnam. Terry had a friend that was a Green Beret and made it home
unscathed. Another friend from high school went to Vietnam and was killed within three
months of being there. Still, he did not have any animosity with the war.
Terry felt that he was being sent to Vietnam to protect his homeland. (10:19)

�

After the war, Terry learned that over 1.5 million people were slaughtered after the
United States pulled out of Vietnam.

Basic Training (11:55)












He reported to Chicago and was sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. His training
lasted 12-13 weeks.
When he first arrived, they tried to tear each man down mentally and physically. Terry
refused to let them do that to him.
Terry was asked if he wanted to be a driver and he volunteered for it. He got his military
drivers license and as a result of being a driver only pulled KP duty once while in basic
training, and later did not have to do guard duty.
His duties included waking up early to transport the company to various ranges and other
forms of training. (14:53)
In basic training, it was all about conditioning. With some elementary aspects of military
maneuvering and combat training. (17:21)
Towards the end of basic, they were given their first pass, which allowed them to move
around the base.
He met a man that was 25 or 26 named Richard Hamilton. He was a very smart man,
who brought life back to reality. Terry was good friends with him.
Terry would lock his brain out to things that were going on around him in order to keep
fit mentally. He still refused to let them get in his head even though they tried. (19:28)
Their goal was to break you down to build you back up. It culminated during AIT
(Advanced Infantry Training).
After NCO school, four or five of the people with him were asked to consider OCS
(Officer Candidates School). This was appealing because it was another few months that
he wouldn‟t be in Vietnam. (21:00)
The advanced training in map reading and combat was something that he wanted. He
thought about doing it but he found out that he would‟ve had to extend his enlistment for
two or three years.

AIT (22:10)






Terry was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington for AIT. The environment was very different
than basic.
One major difference was the granting of passes that allowed them to go to Seattle and
other cities nearby.
They training primarily with the M-14 and a little with the M-16. Terry also learned
more about the safe handling of the weapons and how to break them down and clean
them. (24:44)
Fort Lewis was a good experience for Terry, and while he was there he met Leon
Hendrix who was the brother of Jimi Hendrix. He would be picked up by a limo when he
had a pass and taken off by his brother.
The instructors were mostly Vietnam veterans, and they treated you well if you treated
them well. They wanted the men to learn because they knew where they were going.
(26:45)

�


Almost all of AIT was geared towards Vietnam. They learned about guerilla tactics,
mines and booby traps and things that they would encounter in country.
The Vietnam veterans would talk with them and tell them about what to expect.

NCO School (28:24)
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When he volunteered to go to NCO school, he did not have to extend his two year
enlistment.
He wanted to go because he was interested in gaining the additional experience and
training with compass and map reading, marksmanship, land navigation, medical training
and radio procedures.
One man that he trained with ended up going on to OCS, but most chose not to go
because they did not want to extend.
The emphasis on physical training increased at NCO School. (30:46)
This school was conducted in southern Georgia at Fort Benning during the summer.
While there, he met chiggers. Which are almost invisible little insects that bite and are
not fun.
There was also an increase in forced marches. Their goal was to build up the men
mentally because they were soon going to be leading others. (32:18)
At Ranger training, they went down for a week in the swamp and had to survive off the
land. The instructors also pulled ambushes and things to keep them on their toes while
they were out. It was here that they gained experience and learned what to expect when
they got to Vietnam.
Sometimes he would have people that refused to walk point, so he would do it. After a
little while someone would tap him on the shoulder and tell him he better move back in
the line. (34:17)
Terry graduated from NCO School in November 1969. After NCO school he was sent to
Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. It was there that Terry became an instructor.

Fort Jackson (35:05)
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At Fort Jackson he was training AIT recruits and was given a company. The four of the
men that he was with decided that they were going to discipline their students differently
than they had been treated. After meeting together, they decided to give their recruits
post privileges for the rest of that day, which was a Saturday. Monday morning they had
an inspection and they demanded that they be number one.
With that mindset, they only went one week not being rated first for their inspections.
(36:15)
Terry‟s superiors were curious about their new training techniques, but they allowed him
to continue. The results showed them that it was working. (38:30)
Terry met John Fraser at NCO school. He was from Maine, and he was a backwoods
country boy. He had amazing grip strength.
The group that Terry bonded with was John Fraser, Richard Hamilton, and Chuck
Kearse. It was the four of them that trained the recruits at Fort Jackson. (40:02)
After they finished training, they were given a few weeks leave. They reported back to
O‟Hare Airport in Chicago to ship out to Vietnam.

�

On the drive to the airport, Terry heard a voice that he believes was God that said “Don‟t
worry son, I will take care of you.” He trusted that when he went overseas.

Vietnam (42:30)
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From Chicago, he met up with John at Fort Lewis and they flew together to Anchorage,
Alaska. Then they went to Hawaii before they made it to Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam.
Once they arrived, they both were issued orders to the 101st Airborne Division.
They arrived in Vietnam during the day and he remembers the smell, the humidity and
the heat.
Helicopters could always be heard, and that lasted until he got home. It was a constant
drone day and night.
They spent a day or two at Cam Ranh Bay before being trucked up north to Phu Bai.
Camp Evans was the headquarters for the 101st. (44:21)
A few trucks went together along Highway 1, and they had no incidents on the trip up.
He didn‟t know what to expect when he was there. But thought initially it would be like
an Audie Murphy movie, which it wasn‟t.
He and John were both assigned to the same battalion and company but different
platoons.
Terry went to Delta Company, 1/506th. They were nicknamed the „Delta Death Dealers‟.
(46:26)
When he arrived at Camp Evans, he was issued his weapon, clothing and other
equipment. They didn‟t wear any markings of rank, except for officers who would on
occasion, but mostly just the higher ranking men.
At the beginning, they carried a rucksack with lots of food, and a little bit of ammunition.
Towards the end, the ammo took the place of the food. (48:40)
The company had come back to base for Christmas when Terry got there. That night,
they set up NDP‟s (night deployment positions). They found a trail and set up ambush
positions. It was after dark so they didn‟t dig in. Terry couldn‟t sleep and didn‟t know
what to expect. In the middle of the night, someone was talking to them. He was Viet
Cong and he thought they were friendly. The machine gunner fired at him and he ran off.
(50:55)
The next morning, they found the man wounded. He tried to attack them and was then
killed. Terry asked if that happens every night and his men told him no.
He found a 9mm Russian revolver during his time but was not able to bring it home.
After his first night, things quieted down. (52:50)
Terry experienced that the lulls in action would cause some to become complacent and
that‟s when you got hit.
They were out for a month to a month and a half before they came back to base. The
101st was present on Hamburger Hill. Terry knew a man, Ted Tees, who won two Silver
Stars at that battle. He also saved Terry‟s life . (54:37)
During a patrol, Terry led thirteen men with no medic. At night, they could hear the VC
looking for them in the jungle.

�

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One night, Terry prayed to God and asked that if he was going to be killed or wounded he
wanted to be done that night. The next morning Terry got a radio call from Ted and he
told him that his grandmother had died and he arranged for emergency leave home. Ted
was the RTO to the Battalion Commander. (56:59)
Ted was given that job as a reward for his actions on Hamburger Hill.
Terry‟s RTO, a Puerto Rican named Shorty, claimed that he could not speak much
English, towards the end of his time there, he told Terry he could speak English just as
well as he could. (58:39)
He did that so he didn‟t have to do as much.
Shorty was told to move a boulder and stump by using a rocket launcher. That didn‟t
work so he used „det‟ cord (detonation) to blow them out of the ground. They were
blown so high part of the stump went through the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) tent
and almost killed the Lieutenant Colonel. (1:00:23)
They never stayed in the same place twice.
During a patrol, they saw heads bobbing in the distance so they triggered their claymore
mines and set off their ambush. When they went down there and checked for bodies,
blood or hair, they were unable to find anything. Terry remembered that once they set off
their mines, a family of monkeys that were in that same vicinity climbed to the tops of the
trees. (1:02:55)
A day later, while on a night patrol, Terry was awoken because of a fire that was a
kilometer away. He requested a fire mission and the fire went out. Thirty minutes later,
the fire reappeared. He ordered another fire mission and the fire went out again. Thirty
to forty-five minutes the fire appeared again and he called in another fire mission. The
company commander asked Terry what was going on up there and he explained it. The
next morning, they could not find anything and Terry believes that the fire was in a cave
and was covered by a cloth once the incoming fire came in. (1:04:58)

Emergency Leave (1:05:28)
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Terry went on his emergency leave at the end of March, because of his grandmother
passing away.
He wasn‟t home in time for the funeral, but it took 18 hours to get from Vietnam to
Chicago. And another 18 hours for him to get home. The delay was because of a terrible
blizzard that occurred that year in 1970.
When his leave was up, he got back to Vietnam and he ran into two of his men at Cam
Ranh Bay. He learned that they had re-enlisted to get out of the field because their unit
had been hit really hard while Terry was away. (1:07:43)
To this day, he feels guilty that he wasn‟t there, because he may have been able to make
better decisions that could have saved the lives of his men.

Ripcord (1:09:36)
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Come May, the Texas Star and Ripcord operations began. Terry witnessed from afar the
shelling and destruction of Ripcord. (1:09:45)
Once he got back into country, he did not get back into the field for a few weeks because
of restructuring in the unit.

�

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Terry and his unit went to Eagle Beach for R&amp;R for a couple of days. In the village, they
paid the MP so they could pass through the gate. The reason for going into the village
was to see the women. After finding only one woman, they decided to just go back to the
beach and drink beer. (1:13:04)
While out in the field, they would sometimes stay at firebases. Most of the time
however, they stayed out in the boonies.
On one field mission, they saw smoke in the distance, so Terry and his men were tasked
with investigating it. When they made it to the location, they discovered that it was
steam from a hot spring running into a cold river. They set up a NDP and stayed for the
night. (1:15:48)
Since they were operating a night ambush, come morning the group didn‟t have anything
to do so they spread out and formed a perimeter and they all took turns taking a hot bath
in the spring.
They liked the spot so much, that they stayed in the vicinity for three days. (1:17:40)
Terry also enjoyed finding 1,000 pound bomb craters because they made instant
swimming pools.
Back at Camp Evans, they were attacked on occasion, so there was an established guard
set up. Some men would smoke drugs and other things while back at the rear. (1:19:14)
A platoon size varied, but was usually between 25-30 men. Sometimes they would be as
low as 12-14. Terry had to harden his heart and tried to not get too close to his men
because he never knew if they would be rotated out or be killed. (1:21:13)
For the new guys coming in to the unit, they would tell them some of their folk tales
about monsters or fictional things, but they worked with them and taught them how to
survive. It was important to learn the system and how to operate together.
For most of their AO (Area of Operations) they could see Ripcord because it was one of
the highest points around. (1:25:07)
They didn‟t know at the time how many NVA they were up against but Terry learned
later that there were two regiments attacking Ripcord.
When they landed at a hot LZ, Terry led his men to one side and John led his to the other.
They were being attacked just enough that they were unable to dig in. John lost a couple
of men, but Terry did not lose any. (1:27:03)
One of Terry‟s men came up to him and asked him for help with his arm. Between his
wrist and his elbow his arm was bent downwards. Terry asked him how he did it, and the
man told him that a mortar round landed on his arm and did not explode.
One of his new medics died of shock in the battle.
Some time later, Terry found an article written by a helicopter pilot that was there that
day flying out the wounded. In the article he mentions a sergeant that was running out
and bringing the casualties from the battle to the landing zone. Terry realized that he was
that sergeant. He e-mailed the pilot and thanked him for everything he did that day.
(1:30:22)
Another helicopter that day was hit by an RPG in the tail rotor. The pilots landed it and
got away from it in case it exploded.
Terry was told to go down and shut it off because it was on fire. He brought a pilot with
him and they shut it off. (1:32:00)

�
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When it was time for him to be extracted, a medic came running out and grabbed onto
one of the skids of the helicopter and held on until the wind became to strong he was
blown off and fell into the jungle. (1:34:08)
Terry was wounded himself, and another helicopter eventually came and picked him up.
He took shrapnel from a mortar round earlier in the day, and still was able to work
through it and help his men.
Terry‟s captain was killed the day after Terry left the field [July 21]. He was killed by
the rotors from a helicopter. (1:36:26)

Wounded (1:37:25)
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The same day that Terry was wounded, John Fraser was also wounded. Back at Camp
Evans, the men were all happy to be out of the field. John was sent to Guam for his
injuries and Terry was sent out to a hospital ship. On board the ship, they had an award
ceremony where he received the Purple Heart and some other awards. (1:38:26)
After he left the ship, he was sent to Japan to recover. While there he met up with John
Fraser and the two walked up to the NCO club wearing their hospital robes. Terry was
told to shave his mustache but he told them no.
At the club, they had to use the latrine so they went in to go but John was in a wheel chair
and couldn‟t get in the stall by himself. Terry helped him and when he did the stall door
shut behind them. Realizing how stupid they must have looked, they began to laugh.
While this was going on, two men came into the latrine and heard the two laughing in the
stall. They quickly exited and when Terry and John came back out, every eye in the club
was on them. (1:41:10)
Terry was in Japan for only about a week or so. From there, he was sent to the Great
Lakes Naval Hospital in Illinois. They informed him that he was eligible for disability.
Today, he still has ringing in his ears and has to wear hearing aids. (1:43:50)
Instead of waiting the extra month to get his disability, he decided to just go home.
He was discharged at the end of August 1970.

Civilian Life (1:44:55)
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Terry was married before he went into the service but it ended up in a divorce. He also
took more college classes and continued with the business major.
While attending Western Michigan University, Terry met his wife and they were married
after ten months of dating. (1:46:06)
Before he had graduated, he found a job with the Michelin Tire Corporation. He went in
for an interview and he was asked to shave his mustache, which he did.
He had a choice between Atlanta and Detroit, and he chose to move down to Atlanta.
They later moved back to Michigan and Terry became an apprentice at a tool and die
company and started a landscaping business on the side. (1:48:28)
Terry finished his apprenticeship and began working for a company named RJ Tower and
worked as a tool engineer. The company had two customers, Ford and Honda.
His father-in-law later offered him a sales position at his company so that his daughter
would be closer to home. He later became one of his role models because of his
integrity. (1:52:00)
Terry spent twenty five years working with Honda as a tool supplier.

�
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After Vietnam, Terry would wake up in the middle of the night with dreams about the
war. He never slept with a weapon but he did have a problem with his temper. (1:55:05)
He learned to control it because he wanted to be a successful businessman.
His military service helped him develop loyalty, and he loves to talk to people. It also
strengthened his faith in God and Jesus Christ.
Vietnam also helped him realize that he shouldn‟t worry about things that he can‟t
control. (1:58:43)
He has compassion for the people that blame the problems in their lives to their military
service, he doesn‟t accept it, but he has compassion for those people.
For treating PTSD, the answer is not drugs, but instead to have other veterans that made
the same sacrifices come along side them and help them to understand that life can move
forward. (2:00:38)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Vietnam War Era
Ward Haner Interview
Total Time: 2:31:00

Background:


(00:38) Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on October 12 th, 1946



(00:49) His father was a World War II vet



(1:10) Spent five years in Scottville, Michigan, where his grandfather had a store



(1:35) Moved back to the Grand Rapids area



(1:56) Father was a mechanic before, during and after the army



(2:10) Mr. Haner says this is why he decided to become a mechanic



(2:40) Had three sisters



(3:10) Graduated from Kentwood High School in June 1965



(3:19) Only had one month before going overseas



(3:33) Enlisted in the Navy Reserves when JFK was killed



(3:50) Trained in the Navy &amp; Marine center on Monroe Avenue in Grand Rapids



(4:10) Wanted to do something for his country, so decided to enlist
o Looked up to his father who was in the army
o Chose the Navy because he hates snakes



(4:48) Looked at Vietnam as a possibility; it was in the back of his mind but he didn’t
know for sure



(5:22) The reason he was interested was because of his grandfather in World War I and
father in World War II

Training


(5:51) Went to Great Lakes Naval Base in Illinois



(6:19) When he arrived at the Naval Base, said it was scary

�

(6:42) When he got to boot camp, they “let us know who was boss”



(6:58) Expecting the discipline



(7:08) Adjusting to military life was hard



(7:53) Boot camp was 6 weeks



(8:00) A lot of marching and drilling



(8:17) Got married 6-7 months into the service



(8:31) Wasn’t engaged when he went to boot camp yet



(8:54) Got a bit of liberty time in Chicago, but didn’t go far



(9:07) Thousands of guys training with him; couldn’t describe how big the base was



(9:21) Barracks was 100ft by 60ft



(9:32) Company AO 70



(9:43) Guys from all over the country came there to train, talks about how different
everyone was



(10:04) Both enlistees and draftees



(10:13) Next, went to Norfolk, Virginia



(10:23) Flew from Great Lakes to a training ship to San Diego
o Went on USS Walton, got very sick
o The ship was a destroyer escort
o Three weeks on the ship
o (11:30) Remembers smells set him off
o If you weren’t sick, eventually got sick from watching others
o (11:48) Remembers a friend waking him up when they were pulling into port
o (12:08) There was a bad storm that made Mr. Haner think they wouldn’t make it
over



(12:53) Had time at home, had “sea legs”



(13:20) Graduated from high school after this



(13:33) Supposed to graduate in 1964, but short just a few credits



(14:01) The lieutenant allowed him to have 6 months to get his diploma or go to
Vietnam

�

(14:40) Now he was in the Navy full time



(14:53) When he went back to school, met his wife

Norfolk and First Assignment


(15:26) Made the mistake of eating on the plane, crab meat was spoiled



(15:41) Sick at the airport and on the cab



(15:52) They wanted to take him to the hospital when he got to the base, but he didn’t
want to do that on his first night



(16:20) Stayed in transit until he got a ship



(16:27) Went on USS Forrestal, an aircraft carrier



(16:57) The Forrestal was the biggest and newest warship at the time
o Flight deck was 4 football fields long



(18:32) Saw his name on a list, was in the 3rd division
o He was in the starboard side mess decks



(19:04) Got indoctrinated
o 14 different duties: air defense, general quarters, etc.
o For these two he went 6 decks below mess decks in a tunnel, went to next one,
each was 6-7 feet down
o Side door was opened, 75 pound projectiles stacked on the walls for gun mounts
o Had to load magazines
o (20:29) Mr. Haner said there were tubes that went all over the ships to reload



(21:13) Anything that dropped over 6 ft in the Navy was considered dangerous



(21:49) Mr. Haner was on a man overboard team



(22:00) His team drove the ship
o An hour on the helm, and lee helm
o Witnessed 3 jets and 1 helicopter crash



(22:32) This was during Vietnam conflict; 1965
o Their next mission was to go to Vietnam



(22:51) Went aboard the ship on Friday, August 13th, and left on the 27th of August

�o Mentions that during this time he bought a ring for his wife and sent it home
o Wanted to go home before going to sea, and got 7 days leave after asking
lieutenant
o Found out the ring didn’t come; but she got it after he left back for the ship


(24:19) They pulled out from Chesapeake Bay and went south
o Learned how to do different duties
o Went down to St. Thomas, Virgin Islands



(25:50) At this point everybody was still training



(26:50) Rotated off and on



(27:26) Crew of 5,000 men on the ship



(28:16) Remembers rescuing a yacht in the Caribbean, someone had a heart attack and
they brought the person on the ship



(28:49) Headed north after the Caribbean to Beirut, Lebanon



(29:00) Took a week to get there



(29:36) At that point they hadn’t had any liberty; Mr. Haner was too new



(29:57) The first port he got to leave the ship on was Naples, Italy
o Mentioned that all the bars there were named after American cities



(30:54) Got little books that told them things about the towns of the ports they were in;
what to do, what not to do, etc.



(31:47) A lot of sailors in that town



(32:26) Went to Genoa, Italy and met some college students from America



(33:20) Malta was next, he really enjoyed it



(33:47) Mentions that there was a colony of Little People on the island



(34:09) Went on a taxi ride in Malta



(34:35) Hit a few ports on the way to Lebanon, they landed on Morocco
o Said it was dangerous to go to Morocco at that time
o After this, went through the straits of Gibraltar



(35:20) Talks about a plane crash



(36:55) Always heard jet engines, but heard the explosion

�o Saw the plane land in front of him on its side


(38:42) The crash that he just described was November 11 th, 1965



(39:02) Mr. Haner said they talked about things like that; took it in stride, but not
everyone on the ship knew that it happened depending on where they were



(39:42) Pulled into Beirut
o 7 days here
o They were told not to go ashore alone, Mr. Haner went anyway
o Saw something he wanted to take a picture of
o As he was doing this, a guy on a horse blocked him from doing this; was holding
an AK-47 and a huge sword
o (41:15) There was a Christmas flight going out of Beirut for them to go home
o Mr. Haner went home to get married; got the first flight out



(42:31) Rejoined the ship in Athens, Greece



(45:15) Went to Palermo, Italy and found out he had cousins there



(45:29) Went to Cyprus and Italy



(45:48) They were supposed to be gone for 12 months, but were gone for 10



(46:16) As the anchor was being pulled up, everyone could hear them



(46:42) Saw all the white hats go up in the air and land on the ocean
o Every time you leave a port for the last time, it was a tradition



(47:20) Went back to Norfolk
o 6-7k people on the pier welcoming them home



(48:26) Found out that they were going into dry dock when they were supposed to go to
Vietnam



(48:42) There was only one fresh water evaporator left by the time they got back



(49:36) Went to a dock in Portsmouth, Virginia and water was pumped out



(49:58) Mentions that he was a firefighter on the ship
o He had to go down with a yardbird, another guy went with him underneath the
ship to fix the problem



(51:34) Still living on the ship while it was in dry dock

�

(52:07) He and his wife got an apartment near this place



(53:03) They were on the ship over Christmas, and pulled out in February



(53:26) They did a shakedown
o He was on the lee helm, and the captain told him to go all engines full reverse
o Captain told the helmsman to go 15 degrees left rudder, and the ship turned
o They were trying to find out if it would brake
o He was told to go engines full ahead
o Then it was time to switch teams



(55:28) About 15 minutes later, ship started to shudder and he knew they were
stopping; took 7 miles to make it go forward again



(56:00) Purpose of a shakedown cruise is to see what the ship’s got, if it will fail in any
way



(56:54) Mr. Haner mentions that someone went to prison for lighting up a cigarette on
the ship because it risked the whole ship being blown up



(57:05) Every week there was a fire on the ship
o Usually from smokers
o One time it was especially bad, they were down there for 8 hours
o Ate C-rations, and Mr. Haner enjoyed them
o The captain commended them for doing a great job firefighting; it was across
from the nuclear bomb storage



(59:52) Came back to port after being on shakedown for two days



(1:00:28) Talked about drones that were launched for practice



(1:00:41) A pickup truck was shot off



(1:01:38) Mentions that he was nervous to be out at sea when his son was about to be
born



(1:02:40) Received a telegram about his son



(1:03:03) About a month later they went home, and because Mr. Haner was a new
father, he got leave on arrival



(1:05:20) Talks about how he jumped ship, friends helped him

�

(1:05:45) Almost missed his flight home



(1:06:00) Got a 7 day leave



(1:06:10) Ship then was headed towards Vietnam



(1:06: 20) While they were on a cruise, there had been a shortage of crews for the boats
used on Vietnamese rivers (swift boats, etc.) and he found out that anyone with 10
months of service or more was subject to transfer
o This was before the Cuba cruise



(1:07:25) They got a list of things to do



(1:07:45) They were supposed to be sent to a province at the DMZ
o He had a good friend who was over there already
o Mr. Haner was ready to go, but he never was sent to Vietnam



(1:08:15) Never found out why he never got orders



(1:08:58) The first Mediterranean cruise he was on was when he found out about the
possibility of being sent to Vietnam



(1:09:08) The ship that Mr. Haner was on did go to Vietnam



(1:09:23) In 1967, there was an uprising in Beirut which caused their leave to be
cancelled
o They ran support for getting all of the Americans out
o It took them about two weeks, went through 7 different time zones
o Marines also helped with this
o They were in port when they got the call to go to Beirut
o After this, the ship went to Vietnam



(1:11:00) Mr. Haner was on an ammunition on-load; he never saw so many different
weapons at one time before



(1:12:19) Carried boxes of 20mm for the jets, put them on a hook
o They were sent to voids, and while opening the voids, some guys died because of
the poison; hadn’t been opened in a very long time
o Another guy hung himself

�

(1:13:20) One of Mr. Haner’s duties was to clean showers in their division, a friend
helped him
o A guy came in from off duty, he heard screaming
o The guy passed out and hit his head on the shower and died
o Had to re clean the area



(1:14:35) One time there was a fire in his area and he had to pick up a guy who’d been
burned bad



(1:15:25) By the time they were going to Vietnam, Mr. Haner’s time in the service was
running out
o Was told if he didn’t reenlist, they would come and get him
o Offered a lot of money to reenlist
o At this point he just wanted to go home and work and be with his family

Going Home


(1:16:30) Went home, July 15th
o Over the radio he heard about his ship having a major explosion at sea a few
weeks after he left
o Felt guilty
o Talked about John McCain’s jet



(1:18:48) This was 1967



(1:19:06) He had two more years left where the Navy could call him in



(1:19:30) Says that he was put on the USS Independence until he was officially
discharged



(1:20:07) The USS Forrestal didn’t sink from the explosion; but was badly damaged and
came close to sinking



(1:20:22) In August 16th, 1966, he remembers hearing that a psychic (Jeane Dixon)
predicted when and how their ship would sink
o Blew up on July 29th, 1967



(1:21:50) Applied for different places around town to work

�

(1:22:03) A family friend gave him a job on 36th street



(1:22:16) Mr. Haner had trouble readjusting to civilian life
o 9 W2 forms in one year; couldn’t stay in one place



(1:22:48) Drag raced; eventually went into circle track racing



(1:23:26) Started a business later in life



(1:23:50) Went to a VFW



(1:24:25) Went to VA in Battle Creek; took care of health needs
o Found out that PTSD was on his papers
o He handled Agent Orange



(1:25:55) Was a service manager at a Ford dealership in Wayland



(1:27:07) Says he would go back and do it all over again
o Would have gone to Vietnam, was always ready



(1:27:53) Says going into the Navy helped him grow up and see that important things
were going on



(1:29:17) Mentioned when he was about 30 he tried to go back into the Navy, but they
wouldn’t take him



(1:29:55) Has been to Forrestal reunions



(1:32:10) Remembers when he was on the ship after he found out his son was born, the
captain talked to him; which was rare

More Information


(1:33:48) Went aboard the Forrestal Friday the 13th, 1965, got out on July 15th, 1967



(1:34:09) Went to the Caribbean, Virgin Islands, went up the Atlantic to the
Mediterranean, took a right, went to Beirut, and stopped at places in between



(1:34:55) Also went through the Pacific



(1:35:15) The Forrestal went all the way to Vietnam



(1:35:22) Mentions that right after he got aboard the ship it was supposed to go to
Vietnam, but it needed some repairs



(1:35:36) They were on station for awhile when it was being repaired

�o Still needed work, then dry dock at Portsmouth, Virginia
o This was when he had to go underneath the ship the next day
o Black, creaky elevator
o Cut hole in the bottom of the ship; had to fix the freshwater evaporator issue


(1:37:05) They did make it to the shores of Vietnam before Mr. Haner rotated out



(1:40:33) Talks about a C-130: cargo plane, 4 engines, they have ramps in the back,
cargo nets for ships to sit in
o It could land on the deck of the carrier



(1:42:31) They had 250 million gallons of crude oil running the ship; it had to maintain
80% of the fuel
o Median grade crude oil
o They had to put a new gasket in
o They were barefoot, almost up to their waists in the crude oil
o He had a friend named Bob who was starting to slip in the hole, they made a
chain of people to help
o Nobody was able to swim in it; not dense enough to hold a person up



(1:45:38) Alpha working party and Bravo working party
o Mr. Haner was on Alpha
o Whenever they went to a port, they would go inland to the airports to pick up
mail, jet engines, parts, etc.
o They had to bring it back to the fleet landing where liberty boats came in
o Bravo party would bring it from fleet landing to the ship
o Because of this, Mr. Haner got to see a lot of extra country
o Got a 45 pistol with one clip
o Had to guard things overnight
o He and his friends got food, made a little camp
o People were shooting a movie near the runway
o Saw Israeli commandos
o This was in France

�

(1:48:55) In Cannes, France, they almost were shot after trying to get a picture of their
ship from the bay
o Probably because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time; not so much
because they were American



(1:50:45) Talks about the time he had leave on arrival after the birth of his son
o Went to his sister’s house
o March 1967, bad storm; he couldn’t get out, and he go to the ship later
o Fortunately the ship was still in port



(1:52:00) During the major overhaul, ship fitters lit torches, cut pieces of steel, this was
when they had the freshwater evaporator issue
o Signs up warning sailors to be careful and not fall
o As Mr. Haner ran over the edge, he saw a sailor who fell
o They rescued him, his eye was out of his socket
o Ended up surviving
o The drop was 25-30 feet



(1:54:50) Talks about the E he wore w/hash marks
o For every E they break, they would get more days of liberty at Guantanamo Bay
o The captain had steak and beer for them
o This was his work crew



(1:56:20) Pistol incident
o His wife was there, and he wanted to get her a pistol because he was worried
about her being by herself
o He asked his friend to take the clip out; the gun went off, almost went into a
compartment
o Mr. Haner went to his workstation and the ship’s police were there
o (1:57:49) Went to the executive’s office, asked him questions, etc
o Mr. Haner had powder burns on his thumb, told him the gun went off by
accident
o Guns were not allowed on the ship

�o The guy was put in the brig on the ship for 30 days
o “Marines worked them to death”


(2:00:35) They spent about 10 days searching for bombs that went down
o Eventually they did
o They were off the coast of Spain, this was 1966



(2:01:25) Mentions that there were Russians out at sea also; harassed them
o A Russian sub crossed, their captain sent it in front of them; almost hit it
o The bombers were called “The Bear”, it went over them with the doors open
o There was a Russian Navy warship that followed them closely
o Mr. Haner made a movie that showed the Americans and Russians looking at
each other with binoculars



(2:04:03) Mentions that his family brought him back to the ship years later and they
weren’t allowed to take pictures



(2:04:45) The Forrestal and another ship were anchored in Portsmouth, remembers a
big building that made propellers
o Mr. Haner was painting a part on the ship, and a helicopter overthrusted and the
rotors hit the flight deck
o So many were wounded that they needed a blood drive



(2:06:36) When Mr. Haner was standing watch somewhere near Cuba as they were
anchored:
o His duty was to look for anybody that may want to sabotage the ship
o He had a search light
o Saw a picket boat with guys who had weapons, rode around perimeter for a few
hours
o He went down by the straight side of the ship
o A big white snake appeared in front of his flashlight
o A tarpon came out of the water and ate the snake



(2:08:25) Remembers one night they partied before the ship left very early in the
morning

�o Oceanview in Norfolk
o Mr. Haner didn’t have money for cab fare, so he gave the cab driver his class ring
as he went to get more money
o When he came back, the taxi was gone
o Mr. Haner found out eventually who the guy was, took some other guys, went
over to his house and demanded the ring back, but it was gone


(2:09:54) During the overhaul, when they were alongside the pier after being in dry
dock, Mr. Haner’s wife was there in the apartment they bought
o Got to sneak off the ship; hid his uniform in a bag, changed into it near the
propeller
o Went home wearing his whites
o He couldn’t get past the gate when he was called back
o Saw another sailor climb over the gate
o Mr. Haner did the same



(2:12:44) One time in France, he was on shore patrol
o There were a bunch of sailors in a restricted area
o He had to get them out, they were under arrest
o 10 of them on shore patrol, picked up 10-12 men
o When they had to cross a bridge, there were a bunch of people blocking them
and protesting


Threw stones and bottles

o They were warned by the lieutenant not to reach for their pistols


(2:14:42) One night they were rearming
o Took fuel on their ship for a few hours, destroyer ships refueled from them, etc.
o This time they were taking on ammunition
o One night it was particularly rough
o It was Mr. Haner’s job to take the net off the bombs and put them on the carrier
o The bombs hit the elevator so hard it hit the pipe
o Swung around and hit underneath

�o Mentions that it takes 4 guys to swing the bombs on the cart
o Anything dropped over 6 feet had to go over the side


(2:17:18) Mentions that he played division football
o They won every game
o On the last one, 4 minutes left, he played linebacker, hurt his ankle very badly
o He was sent to the hospital, his friends wanted to bring him a trophy but it was
stolen
o The guy who took it faced him in a boxing tournament
o Mr. Haner chipped 14 teeth



(2:19:17) Mr. Haner mentions that their ship lost steering often
o Once, they were tied to a refueling ship full of crude oil
o Steering at 6 knots
o Heard ropes cracking, Mr. Haner’s job as to cut ropes in the case of emergency
o He had an axe, went to cut them, and crude oil and JP5 was all over the place
o He and his friend got hit



(2:21:25) There was a time when they were on a crew taking sailors in and out, weather
was rough
o Liberty boat held about 65 men
o A friend fell in between the boat and the gangway
o They hoisted him back up
o He eventually jumped off the flight deck when someone jokingly told him to do
so another night
o A ‘tin can’ picked him up



(2:23:28) The Russians they came in contact with were in the Mediterranean and the
Atlantic
o They stayed at a distance
o The closest calls were with the submarines
o They did stay below the surface, though



(2:27:50) Sometimes there were fires on board twice a week

�o Mostly caused by smoking
o There were voids on the ship that would catch fire, they had hatches
o “spontaneous combustion”, Mr. Haner was sure it was from smoking though


(2:30:15) Would like people to know about and remember the Forrestal tragedy

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 1]
RED PETACH:

When I was a little girl – I've always been interested in China. My
father used to take us to a Chinese restaurant so I learned
something about Chinese food and when I became adolescent, I
devoured Fu Man Chu books, mystery stories and Pearl Buck, so
the love of China and the interest in China has always been there.
Then when I went to college and I went to Penn State, they had a
scholarship program Lee Nom in China, Penn State and China and
Canton China. They'd had that for several years but they were
always men exchange students. I sang in the choir so I heard about
it, they always announced in the assemblies, and I heckled and
heckled and finally got them to admit women, so I was one of the
first, one of the few women – there were five of us – and there
were 25 men. It was the first time I'd ever been away from home. It
was a wonderful experience – I left by train and when that train
rolled around the corner, if I could have gotten out of there, I
would have not gone and I was homesick all the way across the
United States.

FRANK BORING:

Let's go back just a few (inaudible)…

RED PETACH:

I come from a family, there were six of us, two girls, three boys
and myself, and when my brothers said to me, "Jump", I always
asked, "How high?" They ruled the roost, but I when I went
anywhere I always had my family with me. The rest of the family

�were never interested in travelling, I always was, even as a little
girl, when I was just barely able to walk, they found me at the
other end of town just enjoying myself and my neighbors had to
bring me back, I was having such a good time, so even early on I
was – and I was the only one in the family who's travelled. When I
finally coaxed them into allowing women to go to China, my
brother, my one brother particularly said that he wanted to go but
he couldn't go. They always had a good reason for not going, but
my father told me later on that I was the one in the family that he
would have said to go, I guess because I was the one who was
really independent. I was a women's liberator way back even then.
But as I went across the country, I was so homesick I cried all the
way practically, and I remember people on the train, a young
gentleman on the train who said, "Someday, we're going to read
about you in the paper." I thought, uh huh, that one I don't believe,
but my father had me wear an eastern star, the little slipper, so that
I would be taken care of if anything would happen, some man
would come to my assistance. As far as I know I didn't need that
assistance, but when we came out to San Francisco, we stayed
there for quite a while. I met Josie and the rest of the fellas, some
of the fellas, Major Gentry was there. We waited a long time
because – I don't remember now how many days, but we wanted to
go badly, and then they decided they were going to send a crew,
there were about 150, but they weren't going to take us, and Josie
and me again heckled and heckled and heckled and finally we went
on a Norwegian, a Dutch freighter and I got the captain to permit
us to go. Our quarters were on the top deck of the ship, we were in
the nursery, so we had a fence around us, and they put up cots and
our toilet facilities were made for children but I found that very
amusing. The Captain was very generous, he allowed us to use his
bath for our baths, but I noticed that in my letters that I wrote back
home, that every time we moved off that deck we were flanked by
medics we couldn't move, they were protecting this precious cargo
and I must admit it was a little annoying, but every time we went
down to dinner we had to go down below decks to dinner, we were

�escorted by the medics all the time. They were very much in favor
of me going.
FRANK BORING:

Once the decision was made for you to go under the exchange
student program, tell us about that part.

RED PETACH:

My parents encouraged me – I wouldn't say that encouraged me – I
didn't need any encouragement, I wanted to go very badly and they
were in favor of it. That was a wonderful experience for me and
that was one of the things that changed my life. I was interrupted
and I'm getting my stories mixed up because when I went as an
exchange student to San Francisco and I met my aunt, and then we
went on a Japanese freighter and we went to Tokyo and then I took
a train from Tokyo through Manchuria through Beijing, Peking we
called it, and down to Singapore, Macao and then down to Hong
Kong, and then into Canton, and that's where I learned to eat with
chopsticks, and it was the first time I had ever had raw fish because
it was a Japanese freighter, we learned to eat that kind of food, but
the thing that is interesting to me now is that the film, "The
Emperor", I was there while he was there, and when they showed
the film I would start analyzing it because there was a picture of
him in Diram [?) where we had been and it was just an
unbelievable experience, and I remember when we stayed in the
university at Canton, I had two Chinese room-mates and the one in
particular I correspond with today. We would take trips into China
and one of the experiences that I had there, we went by train as far
as we could and then we took a bus into Peking, the Forbidden
City. It had not been open to tourists. I spent four days in that
Forbidden City, all by myself. We were staying in a missionary's
home and I would take a lunch, and then I'd just wonder around
that Forbidden City. It was an experience that few people have
had. Their clothes were still on their beds, the food was still there
on the couches, and to see all that furniture and all those wonderful
– the architecture – I just wallowed in all that, I felt like Alice in
Wonderland. The Japanese had it controlled pretty much, they
didn't realize what a tourist attraction it was.

�FRANK BORING:

(Inaudible)

RED PETACH:

I majored in political science, again it was a thing a woman didn't
do, and minored in sociology. Most of our classes were taught – all
of our classes were taught in English by Chinese professors. We
had I think, two professors but they were Chinese who spoke
English. I did try to learn a little Cantonese, I never did learn
Mandarin, but I learned enough to get around when I was in China,
but we stayed at the inns at the Chinese dormitories, and we had
just mats, no mattresses, and when I came home as an exchange
student, I slept on the floor for a couple of months because I
couldn't get used to those soft beds, my body just was too rigid for
the soft beds.

FRANK BORING:

You had read about the Chinese up to that point. What was your
actual impression of the Chinese once you got there?

RED PETACH:

I was just enthralled by the Chinese. I was amazed at the poverty, I
had never seen that, begging, that sort of thing. But the professors
we had, I was just impressed by their gentleness, their kindness,
their intelligence. They were – it's hard to describe really, I had a
kind of reverence for them because I respected them so much, but
of course, some of the culture was very different. Some of the
political leaders would come to talk to us and we'd go to various
Chinese occasions, and I can remember the first time I was
impressed, we had an excellent speaker and we were very
impressed with what he said and right in the middle of it he burped
so that you could hear him all over the four corners of the room,
and I was astounded that he would do that, but then I found out
that that was a sign that they'd had good food, that was one of the
cultures in China I had to get used to, but it was all so interesting to
me. My room-mates came, Chinese girls came from very good
families, only good families went in for an education. We were
foreigners and were never invited to their houses, it was
understood it wasn't the thing to do. But we toured a lot, we

�bicycled a lot all over, staying at monasteries, that sort of thing. I
got so much out of that experience - that was the reason I went into
nursing. I wanted to go back to China to return to them some of the
benefits that I had gotten, and I knew the best way to get there was
in medicine. Being a doctor was just going to take too long, and I
had met some Americans out there who had been in China at Yale
and had been to Yale Nursing School, so one of the other exchange
students and I – our letters passed in the mail – both of us decided
we were going to go to Yale School of Nursing, so when I got back
home to Penn State, that was in '35, '36, I came home in '36, I
graduated in '37, but then I had to take extra courses. I took a
chemistry course and a zoology course in the summer so that I
could get into the Yale School of Nursing and I got my master’s
degree from the Yale School of Nursing and of course, when I was
there at Yale, they all knew I wanted to go back, and when I
graduated from Yale, the only way I could get back at the time was
in the missionary field, and that just didn't quite fit me, I didn't
quite fall into that category, so I decided – I always liked public
health better than hospital work so I went out to Minneapolis to do
nursing work, and I'd been home on vacation and just come back,
Major Gentry had been going to the east coast recruiting people for
the AVG and they came to the Yale university and they said, I
know somebody who wants to go, but I don't know where she
lives, so they called my father at home. When I got back from
vacation and when to the Visiting Nursing Office, I called, and
being a real smart aleck, doing what I was supposed to do if I'd
been out in the district. "This is Jane Foster calling, are there any
messages for me and she said, your father called. The first thing I
thought of was there's something wrong, so I didn't wait to get
back home, I called from downtown from a department store, and
Dad said, “You're getting a call from China. Stay home until you
get it.”

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 2]
RED PETACH:

One of the interesting experiences I had thinking of what I knew
about China from what I had read, when I went into Japan, their
culture was so different. You sat on the floor and that sort of thing,
and I had to get used to that, I'll never forget, they separated the
men from the boys, and then we wanted to know where the men
were, and a little girl took us down the hall and we could go in a
peep-hole and see. From Japan we went through Manchuria by
train and at that time, there were bandits that would raid the trains,
so all the windows of the train were down, closed down at night so
no light could come out, and I can remember seeing these Chinese
men with their long fingernails and I thought of those Fu Man Chu
magazines, and I was a little apprehensive. Then we went to
Peking and saw the beautiful architecture. Of course, the colors are
similar to Japan's, Japan is very similar, real bright colors,
beautiful blues, beautiful greens, beautiful golds, and the forbidden
city was just one mass of gold, and the carvings of those
marvelous, marvelous steps, marble steps, they were carved with
lions and dragons on them. It was very, very impressive. We didn't
see that much of Peking when we went, but on the way over, we
came on down to Shanghai and into Hong Kong, and into our
dormitories there at the campus. Our mode of transportation in
those days was a bicycle, and I used to ride all over the campus.
When we'd go to parties or anything, I'd stash my skirt over my
arm and off we'd go. Then we had rickshaws, but airplanes were

�not even considered, that was out of the ordinary. When we went
up through the interior, between semesters, we went up through the
interior. There were four of us, two girls and two boys again, and
we stayed at Chinese inns. The way we got our heat was through
the brazier on the floor and we had to put our feet – we'd always
take our coats and let the heat come up inside so we could be sure
to get warm. That portion of it was quite. In the villages the
sanitation was non-existent. We knew enough Chinese to get our
dinner and get transportation. We went up into Hangchow, then we
went into Peking, and that was the time I really toured Peking, and
we saw the summer palace and the beautiful paintings on the – the
pathways were covered with tile and on the top of them they had
beautiful paintings, very lovely, and Chiang Kai-Shek had them all
repaired. It was a beautiful place, a lovely place to go into.
FRANK BORING:

What was the reaction of the Chinese people to your red hair?

RED PETACH:

The reaction of the Chinese people to this very tall, red-haired,
blue eyed, blonde, white skin – it was almost true of any exchange
student, we didn't need to worry about whether we could find
somebody, because we were always encircled by Chinese. They
had never seen anything like this, and of course, especially we got
into the interior, and some of the Chinese kind of cringe when I say
this but the peasants used to say, pointing the finger of fun, "Wilo
fung wilo, fung wilo", which meant, "foreign devil". But I was a
real shark, red hair, blue eyes and white skin. As I said, we never
needed to worry about not finding anybody of our exchange
students, when you saw our crowd, one of us was in the middle.

FRANK BORING:

When you actually had to return back to the United States after
your…

RED PETACH:

I was so enamored of the Chinese, I had always been but after that
trip, with the architecture and the experience and the contacts with
these professors, these gentle scholars, they really were men of
learning, I was just overwhelmed, and of course, it was the first

�time I was away from home. My whole idea was, I want to repay
them for everything that they had done for me, but my father
wanted me to come home through the Philippines and through
Europe, not through Europe, the Pacific, and I wanted to go around
the world. I wanted to go through Europe, there were certain places
I wanted to see. So fortunately, in those days, communication was
not very good, and I knew that if I started around the world, my
father couldn't get me, he wouldn't know where I was, so I started
around, I went around the world. I was by myself most of the time.
I had the itinerary of the other exchange students, so that when I
got homesick, I'd go hunt for them and then we'd be together for a
little while and then we'd go off. But I went to the Philippines and
Singapore and it was interesting to see those places when I came
back after the war. Then I remember particularly going to India,
and I'd become so accustomed to Chinese tea, it was very delicate,
very slight, so we had to taste this Ceylon tea, the British said was
just so good, so we went to taste the Ceylon tea, and I saw them
put the cream in it and the lemon in it, and I thought, if it's so good,
why do they doctor it like that? I couldn't buy it, I didn't like that
strong stuff, and I went back to my Chinese tea, and I still prefer
the Chinese tea. When I came down, I went through the Suez
Canal, stopped at Cairo, and that was the first time, I thought, I'll
never go on another tour again, not on one of the tours, from Cairo
to see the pyramids. They gave you typical tourist tour, I was
riding on camels and I had pictures taken of us on the camels, and I
was horrified, I thought, you don't do that. I was a typical student
so I didn't like that idea. Then I went to Versailles, and I took a
train, and of course, I had $50, I went through Europe on $50. It
amuses me that the young girls today think they're so
adventuresome. The way I did it was, I took my train rides and
slept on the train at night, or on a train station, and then I would
have a good breakfast and a good dinner. Then if I was staying
over in a place then I'd go to a pensione or some tourist's home, I
never went to a big hotel. But what is amusing to me now is that
from Versailles to Genoa, I carried on a conversation with a
gentleman in French, he didn't speak any English, and my French

�was not all that good, but we did carry on a conversation and he
wanted to know where I was spending the night, and I told him,
there at the railway station, he said, "Girls don't do that, you come
home with me," and you know, I did. I laugh about it today, I went
to his home and his mother was there. I slept on a couch
downstairs. He took me on a tour of Lautelle [?] before he left and
got me on the train the next day and went to Pompeii – when I
think about it, I wouldn't do that today! I was innocence abroad.
There was Skinner's book about innocents abroad or something
like that, I can't remember the name about these young girls who
toured Europe. I read that book and that's exactly what I did. I went
to Munich, I went to Germany and when I was in Germany when
the Olympics where being held, that was in '36. I didn't see the
Olympics, I didn't have money enough so I couldn't get a ticket,
but I stayed at German hostels there and one of the interesting
things that happened to me, I love opera and I was going to see
opera in Germany, and they did have "Die Walkuren" that night.
The only ticket I could get was right down front, so I went in an
evening dress, I did spend money for a taxi to get there, and I was
right down front. I'll never forget the sound of those German
voices singing that "Ride of the Valkyries" I thought the roof was
going to go off the place. But on the way home then I was being
very economical, I went by subway, and didn't speak a word of
German, and I got lost. Finally I found some German gentleman ,
young fellow, who spoke English and told me I was on the other
end of town, and he very kindly took me all the way back, and took
me right back to the hostel where I was staying, took me home.
Another that happened – I allowed so much money for each
country, and when I went into France – although I went from
Germany into Belgium – I only had a certain amount of money
left, so again, not being able to read German, I went to the train
station, and they had a special on the menu, so all specials I
assumed were food, but it turned out to be an alcoholic beverage
and I didn't drink in those days, and it was scotch, and I drank it, so
I went out, because I had some time until the train left, I went out
in the street, and got in the midst of this huge crowed which just

�pushed me, I couldn't move, pushed me down and all I saw was
two heads on one person, and I figured, better get back to the train
station. Somehow I got back to the train station and sat down on a
bench until it went away. Then I went on to Belgium.
RED PETACH:

I didn't know much, really. After my experience as a student, as an
exchange student at Lingao, I wanted to go back, again to return
some of what I had learned, and I informed one of these other
exchange students, and our letters passed in the mail, saying that
she was going to go to nursing school too, so we went to Yale
Nursing School.

FRANK BORING:

We need to start from the very beginning of that again, so when
you returned back as an exchange student and the mail crossed
over – start that part again.

RED PETACH:

So when I returned home and decided to go to Yale Nursing
School, so I could go back to China, and this other exchange
student – our letter crossed in the mail – saying she was going too.
So we spent three years in Yale University, got our master’s
degree, and when I graduated, the only way I could get back was in
the missionary field, and I just didn't quite fill that category, so I
went on to do public health nursing in Minneapolis. I was home on
vacation and I had just gone back and started work again and at
that time Major Gentry was canvassing the east coast to try to find
people to join the AVG. They got to Yale University and they said
I know somebody who wants to go to China, I don't know where
she is now but I know where she lives, so he got my father's phone
number and called him, and I being very smart-alecky when I came
home, I called my work and said, "Were there any messages for
me" and they said, "Yes you have a call from your father". I was
very worried, so I didn't wait 'til I got home, I called from a
department store, I called my father, and my father said, "You got
a call from China, you 'll go home and stay home until you go". So
I sent home to my apartment and knowing well that my father who
was a doctor, didn't approve of, why on earth, anybody with a

�master’s degree, work in the slums. He thought I should be a
hospital administrator, he'd spent money on me going to school,
but he wanted me to be a hospital administrator, and of course, that
didn't interest me at all. I liked the contact with people outside. At
the time, I was going with a gentleman, and Major Gentry called
me and told me what he wanted and he wanted somebody in
surgery and I was not very good in surgery, I didn't fit that very
well. I said I hadn't had much experience in that. I didn't know
whether I wanted to go or I didn't want to go, and he finally talked
me out of it, so I said, "Okay, I will go", but I was still not sure I
wanted to go, because I was dating somebody and this gentleman I
was dating, "I said, if you marry me, I won't go, and he said, "I
won't do that because you will regret it all your life," and I knew he
was right, I knew I had to go back, I knew I would be sorry if I
didn't go. So within 24 hours, I was on my way home, and going
back to China, and I got involved with the Flying Tigers, the AVG.
FRANK BORING:

What did Gentry really do to convince you to go?

RED PETACH:

When I talked to Major Gentry on the phone, he told me that this
was an outfit that was going over to protect the Burma Road, and
that I would help in the operating room, doing this sort of thing,
and having been in the operating room, I anticipated what we
would be doing. He was mainly working in the hospital, this is
what I assumed, but it didn't turn out to be that way.

FRANK BORING:

Did he tell you anything further about who else was going to be
going?

RED PETACH:

At that time I didn't know who else was going, I knew he was
trying to recruit three nurses, but at that time, he had no numbers, I
didn't know of any numbers, and I didn't know what outfits there
were. I knew it was a flight unit, an aviation unit that was to
protect the Burma Road. Really at that point, to get back to China,
it didn't much matter to me what it was, I figured I could fit in
some way.

�FRANK BORING:

What was the reaction of your family when you told them you
were going to go?

RED PETACH:

My father would do anything to get me out of working in those
slums, he just thought that was ridiculous and I think he liked the
idea that I was adventurous and I was going to go back, because he
did some training as a physician in Vienna…

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Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
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Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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Christopher, Frank&#13;
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P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat.  In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days  to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks discusses her tour of Europe after being an exchange student in Lingao and attending Yale Nursing School upon her return home, where she was recruited for the AVG.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 3]
RED PETACH:

When Major Gentry called me, I was working in the slums of
Minneapolis, and my father who was a physician would give
anything to get me out of there, a person with a master’s degree in
the slums was ridiculous, and as far as the rest of my family was
concerned, I had been to China before so thought I would probably
– it didn't mean anything to them. I had disrupted the family
relationships by being an exchange student in the first place. They
always told me what to do beforehand, and they weren't very
happy with me after I came back because they couldn't tell me
anything. I had grown up by then and I was in command of myself.

FRANK BORING:

What was it that you actually told them you were supposed to be
doing there?

RED PETACH:

When I talked to my family, and I told them as much as I could
from what Major Gentry had told me, that there was an outfit that
was going to protect the Burma Road, and I can remember at the
time being kind of self-satisfied because my friends were married
to men who were being drafted, and I said, "Well, I'm going to
escape that, I don't need to worry about that, I'll be away and I
won't be involved". But it turned out differently.

FRANK BORING:

What was the first step? Where did you go first? Where did you
meet up? Where did you first sign up? What was the first step?

�RED PETACH:

When I decided to go, of course, I came back home and did as
much as I could by way of getting clothes, packing and that sort of
thing. I didn't have any contact with anybody until I got to San
Francisco, and then I met them there at the hotel, they were all
strangers when we met together at San Francisco.

FRANK BORING:

If you could describe to us why you wanted to go to China,
something along that line.

RED PETACH:

When my family asked me about the salary and the money that I
was going to get I said, "I really didn't pay much attention to it,
because it didn't mean anything to me. I don't even remember to
this day really what we received by way of – it wasn't any great
deal I'm sure of that. But the money wasn't important, I wanted to
go back to China, and that's all that was important.

FRANK BORING:

There were guys from all over the country there in San Francisco.
What was that like, the first time you walked in, what was that
like?

RED PETACH:

When I walked into the hotel in San Francisco, I think one of the
first ones I met was Major Gentry. I liked Major Gentry, he was
very nice, very kind, very gentlemanly, very gentle. Then Josie,
Miss Stewart, I liked her right away. We established a good
relationship right away. The fellows – I don't know why I thought I
was so sophisticated and so much older, but I felt that they weren't,
if you'll pardon the expression, dry behind the ears yet, and I
wasn't the least bit interested in them. I thought they were young,
aggressive, nice looking but kind of, not arrogant but
swashbuckling, this kind of thing, some of them, not all of them.

FRANK BORING:

So it sounds like you saw R.T. Smith you saw right away.

RED PETACH:

I don't think so.

�FRANK BORING:

Okay, so she didn't really know what she was getting into. Did you
talk about your experience?

RED PETACH:

When I met Josie, we call her Josie now, I referred to her as Miss
Stewart for a long time, she was always the senior rank. In those
days, I thought she was terribly much older than I, so I looked at
her, not quite as a parent, but as a very senior citizen, so I
respected her. I didn't have the camaraderie that I would have with
someone my own age, and I looked up to her as the one who knew
all the answers. Of course she knew Major Gentry before, I think
she was Major Gentry's classmate in college, so that what contacts
I had it was generally through Miss Stewart to the Major.
However, I had a good relationship with him.

FRANK BORING:

What were some of the people who stuck out that you met during
that period of time – that perhaps stuck out more than others? Were
they the ones that you eventually became good friends with later
on or were there any ones in particular?

RED PETACH:

On the boat going out, that's all, not there. It was interesting to me,
I did not really get to know the fellas very well. As I said, when
they did put us in the boat and we were up in the nursery, we were
always flagged by the medics, so we didn't get a chance to talk to
anybody. We knew the medics, we knew Gentry and Gentry,
Prevo, Sam Prevo and Doc Rich well, but not the other fellas who
were bold enough to come up in the nursery, we got to know them,
but it was interesting to me the aura around the crowd because we
knew their passports were false. Now ours were current, we were
nurses and doctors but some of the pilots were bond salesmen and
other things. Now Pete, the boy I eventually married, was a bond
salesman, and when we went over, they were very careful about at
night time, the shades were all drawn and there were no lights
around and they were being very quiet, no radios or anything like
that, and we were convoyed – we picked up a convoy in Hawaii
and they convoyed us across, I don't remember where they dropped

�us off, but it must have been either in Singapore or, around in
there.
FRANK BORING:

Was there a drop off in any of the other…?

RED PETACH:

We stopped off at Singapore, but we weren't allowed to go
(inaudible). I always felt sorry for the fellas on board because they
were going crazy being on that boat all that length of time. Some
of them were terribly sick. Some of the interesting things that
happened on board – they got shots while we were there, and, of
course, we helped Major Gentry give them the shots, and the thing
that amazed me, these great burly men fainted way down on the
deck. I just couldn't understand how a strong-hearted man could
react so strangely to just a little old shot, but I learned the
experience. When we got to Singapore, there were a few of them
went aboard, most of us weren't allowed to go aboard. But when
we landed in Rangoon, they wouldn't allow us to go aboard. And
those fellows that had been on board that boat all that length of
time were frustrated, and to my amazement, when we arrived at
Rangoon, they wouldn't allow us to go ashore. These fellows had
been on that boat for so long and were so frustrated, and to my
amazement, everything that was portable on that ship went
overboard. They picked up chairs, they picked up everything.
There wasn't anything on that ship that wasn't attached down that
was still on that ship. I don't know whether the Captain was sorry
that he didn't let them go on shore. Going back to some of the
experiences on the deck, we had some good dance records and we
used to dance up on the deck and every so often the Captain would
have to call us and tell us to turn down the music and turn it off.
Doc Rich and I used to dance a lot on board deck and I said, "If
you want an interesting experience, try to dance on board deck."
When you put your foot down, you don't know whether the deck's
going to meet you or whether it's way down below. But we used to
play deck tennis – I was not too bad at deck tennis, I'd take the
fellows on at deck tennis, and then – someone had classical music
and that's where I really began to know my husband, my future

�husband. Pete would come and we listened to it, but he was a good
dancer, and we'd play deck tennis together and we really got
acquainted over Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto. We were arguing
about whether it was the piano that made it or the symphony
orchestra, and to this day I don't know remember which side I
took. That was when we got into a good discussion.
FRANK BORING:

Are there any of these guys that stuck out during that period of
time?

RED PETACH:

Not too many of them because they might have come back but I
don't remember. I know some of them have said afterwards that
they did, I didn't recall if they did.

FRANK BORING:

First impression – first time you met him.

RED PETACH:

I don't remember really the first time I met Pete, but he was a
good-looking gentleman, and I said, he was a good dancer, and he
liked classical music and so did I, and he had a wonderful bass
voice. I was impressed with him because he was so gentle and so
understanding, so sensitive, which for a young man of his age, I
thought was unusual. Most men aren't that sensitive to how a
woman feels.

FRANK BORING:

How did the men treat you? What was the relationship between,
not just the pilots but the ground crew and the people that you dealt
with? How did they treat you?

RED PETACH:

My whole experience over there – there just wasn't a better outfit
than those fellows. Before the war began, I thought they were a lot
of fun to be around and they treated me very well. The fact is, I
think they all really carried me around in a pillow. They were
really very nice, and I thought they were great before I got back
home and when I heard all those glorious things about them, it just
verified what I'd said all along.

�FRANK BORING:

When you arrived in Rangoon, what did you expect?

RED PETACH:

My first impression of Rangoon in Burma at that time was that it
was very similar to the rest of the Orient. They have a different
culture, but it's all similar. The general social graces and this sort
of thing were similar to the Chinese, and of course, I was much
more familiar with the Chinese than I was any other Oriental but
there wasn't that much difference except the way they dressed, and
this sort of thing, and their language.

FRANK BORING:

(Inaudible)

RED PETACH:

When we arrived in Rangoon it was late in the afternoon, early
evening, and so they wouldn't let the men go ashore because they
didn't want them running around Rangoon, and the men were just
livid, they were upset, they'd been there for so long they wanted to
get off, and they Captain paid for it. Not a thing was left on board
that ship. The next day we went ashore and started up to our
headquarters in Toungoo.

FRANK BORING:

…basically the same thing, just add in the frustration…

RED PETACH:

When we arrived in Rangoon, it was late in the afternoon, or early
evening, and of course, the authorities didn't want the men running
around Rangoon at night so they wouldn't let them go ashore, so
the fellows were pent up, they'd been there for too long, and to my
amazement, everything that was portable went overboard. They
just picked everything up and threw it overboard. I just stood there
and shook my head at what was going on. The Captain was
probably very sorry he didn't let those fellow have their time in
town. The next day we went into Rangoon then on to Toungoo. We
took the train up to Rangoon and when we arrived at the base, it
wasn't exactly what I expected because we were ushered into
thatched roofed houses, the women's quarters were on one end and
the male quarter was the other and in the middle was the clinic and
whatever they used as the hospital. It was very rugged to say the

�least, it was not exactly what I had experienced. We slept on beds
with mosquito covering the beds and to keep the ants from
crawling up we had little pans of water stapled on the beds so that
they wouldn't come up the poles. Many of the times at night we
were glad we had those mosquito nettings because the rats would
run around the ceilings and they'd fall down on your neck, and if
you hadn't had the net there, you'd have had a rat in bed with you;
it was not very comfortable. And the other thing that we had to
learn to live with, it was those days before they had the plastic
buttons, they were bone buttons, and the rats would get in the
drawers and eat up all the buttons, we wouldn't have any buttons
on our clothes when we left. And in the rainy season it was wet
and mildew, and when we went for lunch it was like fighting the
bugs before you got to the food, and until they got the screens…In
the dry season it was lovely. The moon, the one thing I remember
was the brilliant moon, you could read a paper the moon was so
bright. It was just beautiful. Again we used to do a lot of biking
down there, it was one way we could get around.
FRANK BORING:

RED PETACH:

FRANK BORING:

The first weeks or so, when it was basically just the routine –
because we have it from the pilot's point of view and the training
and all that – but from yours, what were you and the medical staff
doing?
When we started the routine – really we didn't have much of a
routine – and that what was the thing that I used to write home and
say, "I hope I don't forget everything because I hope I will be able
to do nursing when I get back home." Because there wasn't any
hospital, it was a clinic and Major Gentry did an awful lot of
tonsillectomies that day, the first couple of months we used to help
him with it. The major problem was malaria and dengue fever, and
then the fellows were really sick and I was sorry that they were ill
but that did keep me in practice and gave me permission to do
some nursing which – that's what I went for.
What is dengue fever?

�RED PETACH:

Dengue fever is something like malaria, it's very much like
malaria, the symptoms are very much like malaria, only they get
really very, very sick. It's chills and high fever and sweats, it's
miserable while they're going through it. It's not fatal, but it's a
miserable, miserable illness. But we had – most of our airmen at
Tongue, as I remember – that's when I got to nurse Chennault a
little bit there. He usually liked a ten minute company when he
went out in the evening, and of course, he was a very good poker
player, and he was a very good cribbage player. He usually had
Josie, Josie would go, would be his accomplice. And that was the
time when Pete was getting really – what'll I say – the courtship
was beginning to start, and I can remember one night when I was
all dressed to go out dancing and Pete was going to pick me up,
and Pete disappeared, and Chennault came in, and of course, I had
never been in the army, and I didn't know what the army
philosophy was, and I was to escort Chennault that night, and that
irritated me. I felt I should have been consulted the next I found
out that one doesn't do that when one's in the army, but I enjoyed
his company. He had a good sense of humor and I enjoyed it. We
used to go a lot of times to Olga Greenlaw's house. That would be
in the evening when the General wanted to relax.

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                  <text>Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. &#13;
&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections &amp; University Archives</text>
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                  <text>Fei Hu Films&#13;
Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks)</text>
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                <text>Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat.  In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days  to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her inspiration for wanting to go to China with the AVG and their journey from San Francisco to Rangoon.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 4]
RED PETACH:

As far as the medical situation was concerned in Toungoo, the
environment was very rudimentary as far as the equipment and
everything was concerned and the skill of the physicians, it was
good. Sam Prevo was in orthopedics, Doc Rich was in general and
further along he was out at the front most of the time. And of
course, Major Gentry was very well qualified. We didn't have
much of a problem as far as medicine and supplies and this sort of
thing was concerned. As far as nursing was concerned, I didn't
begin to use my nursing experience and I know in the early days, I
kept thinking, if I don't use my nursing experience, I'm going to
have to take a refresher course when I go back because I've lost it,
I've lost a lot. Because other than the few fevers, the fellows were
healthy and the illnesses that you would find in the clinic, the male
nurses took care of. We didn't get involved in that at all.

FRANK BORING:

What about the accidents that occurred?

RED PETACH:

This stands for most of the year. It was usually all or nothing. We
had a few broken legs and that was one of the things when war was
declared. When war was declared and the Japanese flew over us,
we had no air shelters, no nothing. We dragged those people out in
the ditch, and I can remember hauling one of the fellows with a
broken leg, and getting him out, and of course, the Japanese have

�since said that if they knew what was there they would have
bombed us, and they could have very easily.
FRANK BORING:

Before we move on from this particular point, when you…

RED PETACH:

Shortly after we were there, there was quite a bit of discomfort,
annoyance.

FRANK BORING:

I'm sorry, shortly after you arrived in Toungoo.

RED PETACH:

Shortly after we arrived in Toungoo, the first couple of weeks were
all right. Of course, that other contingent had already been there,
and there were some still to come. There was a lot of discontent
because they were uncomfortable with the situation, the
environment was certainly not good. These fellows had come from
a better environment, and they were living in primitive conditions
almost, and there was a lot of discussion about people that are not
going to stick it out. But after they started working together, and
particularly after they saw what Chennault had to offer, it began to
be cohesive. But it really took a hold after war was declared when
they went up and they started shooting down the Japanese, they the
unit began to really develop.

FRANK BORING:

At this time you…

RED PETACH:

When we were in Toungoo, one of our major entertainment was
going down to Rangoon to the Silver Grill. This is where my
romance took place with Pete, and I had a lot of great times, with
dancing and…The British were very formal, the fellows weren't
very comfortable with that, they liked it – when they were a little
more informal – they did it – but they were very kind about having
entertainment for us, and I remember one time in particular they
had a big dance. The nurses as far as the British were concerned
were second class citizens, they were not "upper class", and when
we were dancing, the AVG boys were dancing with Josie and I and
having a great time. Our contacts with the British, fortunately were

�limited. When we went to the Silver Grill in Rangoon, our contacts
mainly were with ourselves, we were enjoying ourselves and the
British stood off and were usually aghast at what these foolish
Americans were doing. At the one reception, I know that the
British considered the nurses second class citizens and when we
were at the dance, when we danced the AVG boys were dancing
with Josie and myself and having a wonderful time and these
fellows were sitting there and saying, "Why can't I do this?" You
could see it in their eyes, they wanted to dance so badly, and so
General Chennault danced first with Josie, then he danced with me.
That opened the door, the British came and danced with us with us
then, so that let the British know that we were equals, that we
deserved the same treatment. And when they'd come on the base,
they were colossal snobs, and I can remember this one General,
one of the officers, when he was not talking to General Chennault
but talking with the others, he was kind of looking down his nose
at General Chennault, "Well, he doesn't begin to compare…", these
Americans are just not... I came away with a decided dislike for the
British, but I understand that's the colonial British, not the island
itself.
FRANK BORING:

If you could, let's talk about the early days—tell us what you can
about that, the earlier days on that.

RED PETACH:

For our entertainment we would go to the Silver Grill, and of
course, Pete had been inroads all this time, it had started on the
boat. He was always there. I enjoyed his company, I wasn't all that
enamored of getting serious, but it was fun. He was a very good
dancer and I had a good time with him. We didn't play our music
so much down in Rangoon because of the environment, the
mosquitoes and everything else, it was just so crude, but we did
enjoy each other's company. We would bike a lot together and
dance at the Silver Grill. The Silver Grill is where the romance
took place so the Silver Grill has a special meaning for me and
that's where all of it began to develop. Really it was much more
when we got to Kunming that I saw him more. When we were in

�Toungoo, he usually chose Miss Stuart as his companion so I didn't
see that much of him in Toungoo. When we got up into Kunming,
I saw a little more of him than usual, but I never saw that much of
him. I was very fond of him and had a great respect for him. He
would invite us occasionally to his apartment for dinner and I can
remember one time in particular when we had a very sick patient in
the hospital in Kunming where we used the hospital in town
because we didn't have any on the base. We were 24 hours on, 24
hours off, and I told Major Gentry – the Major had invited me to
dinner that night and I told him I couldn't come because I was on
duty and Major Gentry said, "You're going." There wasn't any
question, and again, not familiar with the army routine, I wasn't
aware of it. But the General was a practical joker and he was very
flexible, he would stand on top of the steps and reach down to put
his hands on the lower step, and he do it so difficultly, it would be
so hard, and he'd take a bet, "Can I reach the bottom step?" and of
course, everybody would fall for it, and he could, and after he got
his money, he'd reach over and show how his foot would stay flat
on the floor. Another time, I guess this was in Toungoo when Pete
and I were going together, we were at one of the houses and he
liked to play cribbage, and I played cribbage, so he was the
champion cribbage player in China, and I was playing with him
this time, and he was standing behind me, and of course anybody
who knows the cribbage game, it's all addition, and he was
standing behind me, adding for me, and I was beating the General,
and the General said, "Get that boy out of the way there", and Pete
naturally left, and of course, I lost, I didn't add quickly enough. But
I think, if you want to go into one of the interesting things that
happened, the day before we were married, we were invited to his
apartment and again, the General was great on games and things,
and we were playing Indian wrestling, and if anyone is familiar
with Indian wrestling, you put your leg up against – you know and
push and pull – and the General gave me a yank, I flew across the
room, hit my arm on the corner of the table and was married with a
black eye – it was my favorite story. Another time when a D14
came through, all the fellows were talking about it, so I wanted to

�go see it, and I drove down to the field, and I was at the lower end
of the steps, and I'd gone up to the tower to look, and I started
down and Chennault was waiting at the bottom of the steps and he
looked at me and said, "Red, we'll see you any place, won't we?"
That's all I heard, he never scolded me for being there, and I wasn't
really supposed to be there. He was very generous with his
discipline. To socialize, when the General wanted to relax, usually
he would go to the home of Olga Greenlaw and play poker.
Usually either Josie or I would accompany him. I'd get the drinks
for him and sit by him while he played poker. He was an excellent
poker player and this was his way of relaxation. It was fun, I
enjoyed being with him.
FRANK BORING:

What were your impressions of Harvey and Olga Greenlaw?

RED PETACH:

Olga and Harvey Greenlaw, I knew casually, not very well. I'd
visited their home, they were always gracious and very warm. I
was not impressed with her intelligence, but they were good
company, they were nice.

FRANK BORING:

There have been a lot of comments by some of the guys that they
really didn't understand what it was Harvey did for the AVG. Do
you have any comments about his role in the AVG? What he did
do?

RED PETACH:

As far as Harvey's role in the AVG, I always thought it was like an
appendage. He did errands when they were needed, and Olga was
just a hostess for the fellows when they came in, and it was good
for the fellows, they needed that kind of entertainment. But Harvey
was usually working with, as far as I know, with Steve Carney
when they had messages and things concerning the Burma Road.

FRANK BORING:

What can you tell us about Steve Carney?

�RED PETACH:

As far as Steve Carney is concerned, I really didn't know him very
well. I didn't have much contact with him. All I knew about him
was what I heard from the fellows.

FRANK BORING:

We'd like comments on him because there really isn't that much
available on him, and people talk about a lot.

RED PETACH:

As far as Harvey was concerned, I never thought he was very
smart. I always thought he was kind of a buffoon, and he was just
kind of hanging around doing errands and didn't have thus much
responsibility. As far as Olga was concerned, I always thought she
was kind of flighty, a flighty woman that liked to attract men.
There were a lot of stories about relationships with some of the
fellows. I don't know, some of them may be true, but I don't think
there were very many - if there were many – there weren't very
many involved, what the truth would be, I don't know, I haven't
any idea. I know there were a lot of innuendos, but I never rely on
those, because Olga was the kind of a woman who liked to attract
men, and I understood it that way. As far as the treatment that the
fellows gave me, it was excellent. I was always treated like a lady,
as I said, I was kind of carried round on a pillow. It really
prejudiced me for the rest of my life because nobody for a long,
long time, nobody could compare with the Flying Tigers, they
treated me very well, for the most part. There were just one or two
that thought we were out there to entertain them but for the most
part, the fellows were just great.

FRANK BORING:

Without naming names and whatever way you want to put it, I
would be very interested in hearing that.

RED PETACH:

As far as my relationships with the Keller's were concerned, I
should say, Josie's and mine but Josie should probably speak for
herself. Two gals out there with 300 men – some of the fellows
thought we were there just to entertain them. I feel the General
wanted the nurses there because he wanted American nurses so the
boys would feel more at home, more comfortable. There was

�something of home there, and I think that was more important to
him than actually nursing the fellows, and this is what we tried to
do. We tried, at least I did, they were like brothers to me, they were
like my brothers and I grew up with three brothers. The fact is, I
spent my life mostly with men, so I understood, I felt very close to
men. A couple of them made passes and I made it very clear and
decisive that… that I wouldn't tolerate, that I wasn't interested in.
When we were in Toungoo and Pete was courting me at the time –
when he was on a flight, he would come over and buzz our unit,
and of course, some of the fellows caught on to this so that they
started buzzing the unit, and so Pete, to make sure that I knew that
he was the one that was doing it, would buzz the unit and wiggle
his tail, so that's the way I always knew it was Pete.

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                  <text>Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. &#13;
&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections &amp; University Archives</text>
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                  <text>Fei Hu Films&#13;
Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks)</text>
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                <text>Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat.  In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days  to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her first impressions of the medical situation in Toungoo and the early days working as a nurse for the AVG.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 5]
RED PETACH:

When we were in Toungoo, and the fellows were training on the
planes, and a lot of those fellows had not had experience in that
style of plane, and of course, we did have accidents, and that was
one of things that, later when I would go to the movies, I would
have to get up and walk out, because you'd hear the whine of the
plane and you knew what was happening, and it just wrenched
you, I couldn't take it. I think even to this day, when there's a war
film on, and I hear the whine of that plan, I shiver, because I know
what the results are. Down there usually, and this was at times
through the whole year, it was either all or nothing generally, and
when we got up to Kunming it was another story. These fellows,
they worked very hard and Chennault was very good to them. I
think part of the discontent at the early period was because wanted
action, and once they started to get some action, they were more
content. They could see the purpose of it better.

FRANK BORING:

Tell us about what happened at Pearl Harbor.

RED PETACH:

When we heard over the radio that the Japanese had bombed Pearl
Harbor, I was in kind of shock, because I never expected, I didn't
really expect war. However, I knew that the fellows, particularly
the navy boys, and Pete, had been on the ranger, and they had been
stopping German U-Boats in the Atlantic, so that you knew war
was there, but you're never ready for it. And of course, there we

�were, caught in Burma with no protection at all, except they did
have a warning that the British weren't all that good in their
execution of their responsibilities.
FRANK BORING:

What was the immediate reaction around you by the group use of –
before there was a certain morale discontent because of the Pearl
Harbor…?

RED PETACH:

When we heard about Pearl Harbor, of course there was a lot of
excitement, then we all knew there would be action, and I think the
fellows were champing at the bit, dying to use the knowledge that
Chennault had given them, so they could prove, "We'll take 'em."

FRANK BORING:

Now at this point – what did he order you to do at this point?

RED PETACH:

Very shortly after the Japanese came over and didn't bomb us and
we dragged our patients out in the ditches…

FRANK BORING:

What was your impression ………you were worn out taking them
into the ditches and all that and the relief that you weren't actually
bombed, and when.

RED PETACH:

When war was declared, we knew we were sitting ducks because
we didn't have any protection, and when the Japanese bombers
flew over us, we had warning that they were coming, so we took
all of the patients out that we could and went to ditches. They
could have just bombed us out of existence, we were just doing the
best we could, just kind of there, just hoping. And when they flew
over and didn't, what a big relief. So very shortly after that, we
were all were shipped up to Kunming. I wanted to go up the Burma
Road but Chennault didn't give permission for me to go, so they
flew us up. We flew up to Kunming, and we were in conditions a
little bit better than Toungoo. We were in temporary shelters,
something like the CCC camps that we had in the United States.
There wasn't any heat. I got a room to myself this time, in
Toungoo, Josie and I were together, this time she had a room and I

�had a room. The heat we got from Chinese braziers, we'd have that
in our room. It was a wooden structure instead of a thatched roof.
We didn't have ants and rats, so we didn't have that to contend
with, but as far as comfort is concerned, or luxury was concerned,
that was nil. But while we were up there, the Japanese flew over that was before the fellows got up there - the Japanese bombers
flew over us. They had a Jing bow, a Chinese warning there. The
first time when we went out with the Chinese, and it was just
fascinating to see those Chinese streaming, just like ants, streaming
out of the city, long long lines of those people streaming out to go
to the graveyard, and they'd have kind of a picnic out there, and
stayed out their until the balloons went up and it was all clear.
They bombed in town and we weren't anywhere near town, we
were in the outskirts of town, so we weren't affected. So the next
time when the Japanese were over, we didn't go with the Chinese,
we just stayed there and looked up there, up at the sky, and
watched the Japanese bombers flying over. I thought afterwards,
that was kind of silly but – then of course when the fellows came
up, they chased them away and we never had any problems since,
they just took care of it.
FRANK BORING:

Did you…

RED PETACH:

We went into Kunming very irregularly, once in a while to shop.
We saw some of the devastation in Kunming, some of the
buildings, but it was never leveled away like you see some of
things - some cities that you see in the movies particularly. There
were pockets of where the bombs hit, other than that there wasn't
overwhelming devastation - there were some areas where you saw
it.

FRANK BORING:

What was your reaction to this destruction, this wholesale wanton
destruction by the Japanese?

RED PETACH:

When we'd go into Kunming, fortunately I suppose in many ways,
Kunming didn't have the architectural structures that you see in

�Peking or in Canton, it was much more primitive. They had solid
buildings but they weren't the colorful, beautiful architectural
structures that you saw in other places, so you didn't feel the
devastation as that acute. Of course, they had walls around the city,
it was a typical Chinese city, but no really elaborate buildings were
there. Some of the better structures were the embassies and as far
as I know, they weren't touched, they didn't bomb them.
FRANK BORING:

When you had been to China before, you had made friends with
some of the Chinese people and you had actually interacted with
Chinese people, was that also true of the time you were there in
Kunming?

RED PETACH:

When I was in Kunming, we didn't really have much opportunity
to interact with the local Chinese. I did find out people that I knew
in Ling Lung that were out there, and some of the professors that
were at Kunming University and I did go to see them, and I know
that I was very unhappy that this one Chinese woman that I liked
particularly was very far, and since I didn't have any
transportation, it was difficult for me to get there, and I didn't feel
at liberty in a situation to go for my own pleasure, but I was very
upset when I saw what happened to the Chinese that I had known
in Kunming - then were in Chungking – in the universities. Their
salaries were practically nothing, the coolies were making more
money than they were. They were almost starving, they really
needed food, they needed clothing. The universities were the
places that were bombed. They were really shorthanded. It made
my heart ache to see these people that I saw in such good
surroundings in Canton, being so miserable. They were like
refugees, there's where I saw reverse economics, the laborer was
getting much more salary because they were needed, than the
professors. That was very disturbing to me.

FRANK BORING:

(Inaudible)

�RED PETACH:

In regard to the bombing of Kunming, it wasn't a military target
and - well it's war, and you know terrible things happen in war - it's
so useless but you know what the enemy's going to do, they're
going to hurt as much as they can, and this was an area where they
had war lord and in that area, we met one of them particularly, and
they had money. If the Japanese can devastate that area, that was
less money that could be available to the Chinese to fight them, but
that's war.

FRANK BORING:

…the AVG?

RED PETACH:

When we were in Kunming and as I said before, when I met these
fellows, I just thought they were so young, and I really wasn't
interested in them in any way. When they went down to Rangoon
and fought in Rangoon, when they came back, they had aged ten
years. If I had seen that in a film, I wouldn't have believed it, I
would have thought it was an exaggeration on the director's part.
They were men when they came back, they just turned into men
overnight, and when the fellows were stationed in Kunming and
were sent out on patrols, you'd count the planes as they went out,
you'd count them when they came back and if one was missing,
your heart just churned, you just didn't know …And there
happened to be four Pete's in the outfit, so every time there was a
Pete, and there were a couple of them shot down, it was difficult.
That's why it got me during the daily storm, the gals sitting at
home and how horrible it was sitting at home. You sit out there and
watch them - count the planes, count them coming…it’s tough.
And as far as our living up there was concerned, you lived each
day at a time, you didn't think in terms of the future, you just
enjoyed what you had, your relationships with the people,
everything was on a 24 hour basis. You just didn't think of
anything else, but I know that when I sent letters home, I had a
feeling inside of me, that he'd never come back. After the first raid,
the whole morale changed. They were in there fighting together,
battling together, the whole atmosphere changed and the Chinese
were very grateful. They were glad to see them there any way, not

�to be bothered with the bombs again, they were very gracious, and
Generalissimo was very kind, when he came to see us. I admired
Generalissimo, he handled himself very well and he talked to us,
and I can remember Mrs. Anna Chennault – not Anna ChennaultChiang Kai-Shek - Mrs. Chiang coming to the celebration and
telling the boys they were angels with or without wings. It was
good, and it was nice when Mr. Kong, the financier had a party for
the fellows, and invited some of the nice Chinese girls to be there.
It gave the fellows a good break. That was the one thing they didn't
have enough of.
FRANK BORING:

What was your…

RED PETACH:

As far as my reaction to the bombing was concerned, of course I
always knew they were good and they just confronted it. They
were aces high with me. There's just nothing that could compare
with them, and I think the accolades should also go to the
mechanics, the ground crew that kept those planes in shape. Pete
Fox who was Pete's ground crew, he kept him alive. Those
mechanics kept them alive because they kept those planes going
and kept them in good shape for the fellows, and they knew it, and
they did a good job, and they would beg, borrow, and put in all
kinds of parts. They'd cannibalize some planes so they could make
them work, make them fly, get them to fly. It was a great job they
did. I didn't any more verification that they were great, I knew they
were great before then.

FRANK BORING:

What was the life like during that period?

RED PETACH:

Our daily routine, our medical daily routine really didn't vary that
much because again, it was usually all or nothing, and what we do,
we had a few seriously ill patients, and then Josie and I would go
down to the hospital in the city, and it would be 24 hours on and 24
hours off. Of course, the main interest was the fellows shifting to
Rangoon, and the crews going back and forth and replacing each
other. We were always very anxious keeping track of what was

�happening to them down there in Rangoon and what's happening to
them as they push back. They were pushed back up further and
further into Kunming. That was really the subject - that was our
main concern.
FRANK BORING:

You took very good care of them, are there any of them when they
recuperating, you became good friend with, or any incidents that
happened during that period of time?

RED PETACH:

As far as my experience in taking care of some of the fellows,
there was nothing special because, I loved them all , I was fond of
them all, and I there wasn't any particular specialty. We had one not a good actor in the outfit - and of course some of the things we
had to take care of, something like black eyes – there were some
bad characters in the AVG, and one of them known for his
braggadocio and his fighting, was Boyington, and Peret – the two
of them would get involved every so often so when of our jobs was
taking care of black eyes, and Pat Boyington was generally in
trouble most of the time, because he was using liquor too much,
but what was really interesting was Peret was always being
reprimanded for his fighting ability and for getting into fights and
this Ajax Baumler was – one of the army fellows that came in, that
the army sent in, to get some experience from the AVG and he was
a big braggadocio, and he got into a fight with Peret, and of course
Ajax Baumler - none of the fellows liked him and Ajax came in
with the worst pair of black eyes I have ever seen. That was one
pair of black eyes I was glad to take care of and he deserved every
bit of it. Peret said, "It was the first time I got a gold star for being
a bad boy." He really worked him over.

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&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections &amp; University Archives</text>
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                  <text>Fei Hu Films&#13;
Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat.  In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days  to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks discusses the news of Pearl Harbor and the devastation the AVG witnessed in Kunming, in addition to their medical daily routine during those days.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 6]
RED PETACH:

This is about the hospital in Kunming. The services in the
Kunming hospital were good for that period. It was adequate, it
was not super deluxe, but it was not real primitive. We had enough
material that we could work with it. We always had a private room
with our patient in the room and we put up a cot and then we'd rest
there because we were on duty 24 hour, off 24 hours, but at least
we had no problem with nursing equipment and the things that we
needed to take care of them.

FRANK BORING:

Was it exclusively taking care of the AVG, or did you have any
contact with the Chinese or Chinese doctors or nurses?

RED PETACH:

We nurses had no contact with the Chinese, we were exclusively
AVG. The old man wanted us available for the boys, to take care
of the fellows when they came in. I don't know about the doctors,
sometimes they had – Rich might have at the front, but they did not
come to the hospital at all. We had no contact with the Chinese.

FRANK BORING:

If you could tell us the story of RT - when he went up to get the
airplanes from the Gold Coast.

RED PETACH:

Later on in the war they were able to get airplanes from the Gold
Coast to replace the ones that were shot down, and the fellows
would be sent over to ferry them back, and they had the colossal

�story about RT when they went over to the Gold Coast, he flew
into Cairo and RT always had two pictures on either tip, so he goes
into this British bar and he had a handlebar moustache…
FRANK BORING:

I'm sorry, we've got to make sure you set up the whole…

RED PETACH:

There was this story about RT when he – it was Pee Green – when
they were ferrying planes from the Gold Coast and brought them
into Kunming, and there was a story about him – because he was
ferrying a plane – he landed in Cairo and RT always carried a
shooter on each hip, and he had a handlebar moustache, and he
went into this bar…The fellows used to have to ferry the planes
from the Gold Coast to Kunming to replace the ones that were
destroyed, and then there's a great story about Pee Green and he
always had a six shooter, one on each hip, and he had a handlebar
moustache and he went into this bar in Cairo, a British bar, took
out his six shooter, put one of the down on the deck and says,
"Whiskey, me boy, whiskey", and all the monocles dropped.

FRANK BORING:

The Flying Tigers - when did you first start hearing about the
Flying Tigers?

RED PETACH:

I don't know, I don't remember.

FRANK BORING:

This is after Pearl Harbor and after the initial battles and whatnot
and thing were going on in Rangoon and – there was being
replacements coming in – I should say, they would switch the
fighting and everything, was there a change in morale, they were
getting tired, they were getting…?

RED PETACH:

When they were in Kunming, there was a shift back and forth of
the squadrons to Rangoon and back, the morale was good as long
as they were active. When they weren't active, they got bored and
they were champing at the bit, but that's normal for any person,
any active person - they want to get involved, they want to be
working. They're bored when they're not doing that.

�FRANK BORING:

There were reports of not just scrounging for equipment …going
on?

RED PETACH:

I heard stories of black-marketeering and I know they were
scrounging around for material. They did everything they could to
get the material. They used hairpins, they used anything they could
get their hands on. I don't know - I was not apprised of any - I was
not there, it was just stories, rumors. Madam Chiang Kai-Shek
came to a few formal occasions - when Madam Chiang Kai-Shek
came to visit us, she came usually on only very formal occasions. I
never had a chance to really talk with her. The only thing I knew
about her was what I heard. I do know that she was very careful
about keeping the nice Chinese girls away from the AVG, which I
didn't appreciate, and she was very strict with the Chinese they say,
using make-up and this sort of thing, which she did herself. But I
had always admired her Madam Chiang Kai-Shek. I particularly
admired him. He was very good. I admire Chiang Kai-Shek
because of what he was doing, of what he was trying to do for
China. He was a learned man, a very able man, very gentle in his
appearance, very gentle in the way he spoke. He was just one who
handled himself that you automatically respected the way that he
conducted himself. I know there's been rumors about his - but I had
never seen evidence that he was not respected - not a good
gentleman. He was very good.

FRANK BORING:

(Inaudible)

RED PETACH:

Well the morale missions that Stillwell designed for these fellows.
It really upset the whole bunch because it was dangerous. They
didn't want to do it because it was foolhardy, it wasn't for any
definite purpose, and it created a big problem in that area, with the
fellows, it created a lot of discontent. As far as the raids that
Stillwell suggested - or the maneuvers that Stillwell suggested for
the fellows during the war - he wanted them to fly very low. It was
not only dangerous but the fellows didn't like it because it was

�useless, there was no point in it. They didn't mind taking on seven
Japs to one but why just - yourself out there like a fowl to be shot
down, and it created a lot of discontent, particularly between the
fellows and Chennault, because Chennault was in the hot seat, he
was between the two of them. It created a problem.
FRANK BORING:

How about when you got married?

RED PETACH:

There was a kind of quiet understanding that we were not to marry
any of the fellows. The General - no-one ever told us we couldn't
get married but it was kind of one of those subtle things, you were
out there to do a job and leave. Of course, we were there to do a
job, and I had certainly no idea I was every going to get involved
with the young fellows but Pete was persistent, and he was a good
man. So we talked it over with Chennault and he gave us
permission to - he said it was a good match, and he gave us
permission to go ahead and get married. We were married in the
Consulate - by a Consular. The night before, Chennault - we were
in his apartment - he was entertaining us and we did the Indian
wrestling - that was the night before when I ended up with a black
eye at my wedding. Our honeymoon was travelling up the Burma
Road, and then the next day we went by sampan on the lake at
Kunming. That was our - we had one day off. It was beautiful - we
went across the lake and went up the pagodas on the other side,
and had a trip up there and we were ready to come home at dusk
and one of the Chinese ran up to us and said, you've missed the
bus, and he was on the way back to Kunming was - he had to find
a way back – it was our boat. Pete said, "No, no sir, he was not
going to come back. I said, "You can't do that, you just can't do
that", so he came back with us. That was our honeymoon!

FRANK BORING:

Who was at the wedding? What was the wedding like?

RED PETACH:

Our wedding was a very, very simple one. The Consular was a
Methodist minister and Major Gentry and Josie, Miss Stewart,

�were there. It was just a very simple civil ceremony. It didn't
amount to a great deal.
FRANK BORING:

What was the reaction to the - as you call them - the fellows, and
what was the kind of response that you got from everybody?

RED PETACH:

I think some of the fellows were kind of bewildered. It's amused
me since they wanted to know why I picked Pete. I really couldn't
tell them. There were others there that were very attractive. Bob
Little was a peach of a fellow. He was killed over there.

FRANK BORING:

Could you tell us about the…?

RED PETACH:

As far as the activity during the war, as the Japanese came up the
Burma Road and they got closer and closer to Kunming, I never
really felt threatened because I figured those fellows would take
care of us, we'd be all right, and we were.

FRANK BORING:

…the kind of people that were coming over that were eventually
going to eventually replace the AVG?

RED PETACH:

My whole feeling about the army coming in is, that they really
gave General Chennault the short stick. What came in first were
garbage cans and this sort of thing, they weren't really much help
and my feeling was that they deliberately withheld sending people
over there to ease the transition between the AVG and the army
because they asked us to stay over those two weeks, and when Pete
was asked whether he would stay on, I thought that he would be
defending the base and that we'd be in Chungking. I knew he could
take care of himself in the air, I wasn't concerned about that. It
never occurred to me that they'd send him out on a bombing and
strafing mission which is what they did. The next day they went
out to the advanced post.

FRANK BORING:

Was this officer at this time…?

�RED PETACH:

When General Bissell came up and talked to the group, I heard the
conversation and if anybody would stay after his conversation, I
would have been amazed. He did a terrible job, he was
antagonistic, egotistical. I was ready to walk out. I was seriously
thinking about maybe I might join up, but later I was pregnant, but
I know that Pete was not - nobody was impressed with Bissell.
That's why they all left, very few of them stayed on, and they only
stayed on those two weeks to help General Chennault because the
army didn't come in and do what they should have done. There was
a good story in a magazine talking about what the fellows did in
those two weeks, and one of the things that wasn't mentioned is
that two of them were killed, and that I think should have been.
They stayed on just to help the General. They might have been
here today if they had not done that.

FRANK BORING:

Let’s…… that story to us please.

RED PETACH:

When we were moved from Kunming to Chungking, again I was
flown, I wanted to ride, and Mun Chen was the pilot and at that
airfield in Kunming - in Chunking – he had to turn the ship, he
couldn't go in straight, he had to turn his wings, so he could get
into this narrow pass and land. It was a real tricky maneuver to do
it on account of the plane, and Pete - that was after we were
married - and Pete was on the ground in Kunming - in Chungking,
waiting for me. He was chewing his nails and biting his teeth and
everything and when I landed he said, "I'm so glad you're down
here and landed safely." I said, "That's what I go through every day
with you," and he had nothing to say.

FRANK BORING:

Could you tell us about the…?

RED PETACH:

Actually Pete was going to go home, because most of them were
going home, and I said, "I'll do whatever you want because we had
already - we weren't going home, we were going to go to India,
and he was going to fly for CNAC out of India, and of course, I'm
going to help him, I was pregnant at the time and I knew I wouldn't

�have any trouble, so I said, "I'll do what you want to do. We'll go
to India - I'll go to India with you if you want, but I don’t think you
fellows are going to walk and leave Chennault with the bag holding the bag.” And of course, they didn't. But I must say, it
didn't occur to me - I thought they were to defend the base and not
go on - he led the flight with this army fellow that was so
unpopular, and he and Red Shambling were shot down, and never
came back, and the fella, Ajax Baumler - that was one of the
hardest moments of my life, when that man landed on that airfield
in Chungking and he came back and Pete didn't. That one was very
hard to take.
FRANK BORING:

I realize this is very difficult…that day?

RED PETACH:

As far as I personally was concerned, when the planes came back
that day, the fellows were just great. Fox, Pete's mechanic was just
- they couldn't have been better, they couldn't have been nicer.
Anything I wanted, they would tote me anywhere.

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Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
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Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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Christopher, Frank&#13;
Gasdick, Joseph&#13;
Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat.  In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days  to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks discusses getting married to John "Pete" Petach while in the AVG and how he stayed on to work the additional two weeks for General Chennault. </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 7]
FRANK BORING:

If we could - if you could describe where you were and what you
were doing the day when the planes didn't come back, the two
planes didn't come back.

RED PETACH:

I was up in Chungking at the time - we had agreed to stay over
those two weeks and in ten days, I got word that Pete had been
shot down. At that time, they weren't sure whether they could find
him or not, and oddly enough, after I came back to the States, I
was reading the Wall Street Journal of a missing in action and I
found myself hunting for him, for his name in that missing in
action. I never realized that in all those years I was thinking maybe
he - maybe they found him. Then when the squadron came back to
the air base and Pete and Red Shambling didn't come back and this
very unpopular guy, Ajax Baumler arrived on that airfield - that
was one of the toughest things I've ever had to face. But the
fellows were just - they were great. They just carried me around on
a cushion, and Fox who was Pete's mechanic just took care of me
and anything I wanted to do, any place I wanted to go, they were
right here, and when I decided I was - since Pete wasn't there, I
was going to go home, so I went home with Charlie Bond and Bob
Neale.

FRANK BORING:

What was the - give us what it was like to leave. Was there a
farewell party for you or anything like that?

�RED PETACH:

No, I just left.

FRANK BORING:

Give us an idea of the last days, if you will, and how you actually
got back to the States.

RED PETACH:

When we were disbanded on the 4th of July, groups started
leaving, bits at a time. Josie went first, and that was hard, not to see
her go, because I was very fond of her, and we had a good
relationship. But to see the fellows going back home - I kind of
envied them, but I understood why they were going. Just bits by
bits they would just disappear. There were no farewells, no parties,
no nothing. They just went off and of course, they thought we
we're going to be in India, and when Pete wasn't there, then I
thought I should just go home. We were able to fly into India to
New Delhi, Bob Neale and Charlie Bond escorted me and when we
got to New Delhi, I don't know whether it was in New Delhi or
Karachi, but then we flew on to Karachi to try to find a way home
rather than go by boat because I was pregnant. It must have been in
New Delhi then - but anyway, Hep Arnold, very kindly gave me aone priority so I got through and went on an army transport plane
with these two fellows. I was the only woman in the crowd, but it
amused me, one of the incidents on the way home, we stopped at a
place in Africa, one of the army posts in Africa, and they came out
with this gorgeous looking chocolate cake and we were used to the
food in China. They made beautiful looking things but it didn't
taste right and we looked at each other and said, "Could this be
really a good chocolate cake?" And it was, and we took hours, just
eating that one little piece. It never tasted so good! Then we went
from there to the Gold Coast, and we flew into Ascension Island
and I was the first woman who ever flew into the Ascension Island
with - and I couldn't understand what was going on, because when
I went into the barracks to get food and get freshened up, all eyes
were on me and I couldn't understand it, until finally somebody
told me that I was the first woman to arrive in Ascension Island.
That was a feat to go through, that Ascension Island too. We went

�to South America and flew up from South America to Miami, and
when we got into Miami, we went through customs office, they
treated the two fellows like heroes, they were just great. When they
came to me, I was like a camp follower, or shall I say, prostitute,
and of course my ego.
FRANK BORING:

Speak.

RED PETACH:

When we had flown up to Chungking, then I knew I was pregnant,
and that was part of the discussion as to whether we should stay or
go home, and I know I'm healthy and, if you'll pardon the
expression, built like a barn door so I wouldn't have any trouble
with the delivery. I had known from my nursing experience I
wouldn't, and as a nurse, I knew I wouldn't have any problems
finding work, and Pete was going to fly for CNAC, so we were
going to live in India. That's why when this came through and
Chennault asked the fellows to stay over these two weeks, he just
was going to go to India, and I said I would do whatever he wanted
to do, it was up to him. But I didn't think that the fellows would
leave Chennault holding the bag. He needed the fellows there, but
it's up to you, whatever you decide, but it never occurred to me that
they would gone on a bombing strafing mission. I thought he
would be there just to protect the base. I knew he was a good flyer
and I knew I didn't have any problems with that, but when they
took those airplanes on a bombing and strafing mission for which
they were not designed, we were just riding into trouble, but it
never occurred to me that they would do that, and he decided to
stay over those two weeks, and the next day they sent him out. He
went out with the gang to the advance base and they were training
these few army fellows that came in, and of course, I think the
army held back deliberately not to give Chennault anything more
possible. They wanted to disgrace him as much as possible. They
wanted to blacken his name as much as they could. Anyway, he
was on a mission with the army—this army fella, Pete and Red
Shambling, the AVG was shot down and didn't come back and this
very unpopular army fellow came back, Ajax Baumler. That was

�one of the worst experiences I've had… that was when they landed
on the field. I had heard - they had told me that Pete had been shot
down, but in the back of my mind I had thought that he might be
rescued because they didn't know what really had happened to the
planes, to either one of them, and I don't think they know to this
day what happened them. Well, then I was pregnant and there was
no point in me staying over there and that was the time for me to
go home. Fortunately, Charlie Bond and Bob Neale escorted me
home and we flew into Asabdali [?] and then New Delhi, and Hap
Arnold gave me, and I assume they gave the fellows there, priority
to go back, and thank goodness, they did, because I didn't have to
go by boat, being pregnant I thought it would be a little bit of a
problem. When we flew into Karachi that day, I was sick. I have
never been so sick. I couldn't get off that bed, I couldn't raise my
head up. I was there for about two days and I don't know what
those fellows ever did, they would come in and visit me but there
was nothing they could do. They must have felt very helpless.
After a while I came out of it all right. We flew on to Africa and
had a wonderful experience in the – we went to this army base in
Africa, we stopped to have lunch and they came out with this
beautiful chocolate cake. We had been used to the pastries that we
got when we were in China. They were beautiful looking things
but they didn't taste right, and we all looked at each other and said,
"That really tastes the way it looks," and it did. And we took hours
to eat that little piece of cake. It was so good! And we flew from
there onto the Gold Coast and then to Assam Valley, and flying
into that Assam Valley was really exciting. When we got off the
plane and went into the base, everybody was looking at us, and I
didn't understand why. I didn't understand what was going on, and
finally one of the fellows told me that I was the first woman to be
there on that base. So we went from there to South America and
then to Miami, and they treated Bob Neale and Charlie Bond as
heroes, and I found out that how great the Americans thought they
were. I was glad they finally found out. I knew they were good,
they were just confirming what I already believed. I was glad that
the American public realized what these fellows had done. Because

�later on I heard what they were called and I had known that the
army had talked to some of the pilots and tried to get the pilots to
give them some bad news about Chennault, and they couldn't find
it, they couldn't get it. But one of the things that did bother me as a
person, when we landed in the Customs Office, they treated the
pilots like heroes, they went through with a breeze. This Customs
Officer treated me like I was a camp follower or a prostitute, and
that really hurt. He took out everything from my bag, took it all
out. We were limited, only allowed to have 35lbs. and I had saved
six records that Pete and I particularly liked, and they took those
records away because I might have subversive information in those
records. I got them back months later, broken all of them, and I
couldn't replace those records. And then, when they got to the
bottom of my suitcase, or duffle bag is what it was, there were
pieces of medal and he started asking me about the medals, then
the dam broke. I had been under control up to that point. I was so
hurt that anybody would think I was that kind of a woman, that's
what bothered me. I just couldn't understand how anybody could
think I could be that kind of a woman. It just broke the dam, I think
I cried for several days and I don't know what those poor fellows
did. They tried to cheer me up and I tried to control myself but it
was difficult.
FRANK BORING:

Try to give us an idea of the treatment of the army towards you and
the AVG.

RED PETACH:

The treatment of the army to the AVG I thought was just
ridiculous. Stillwell really started it and then with Bissell, it was
obvious that the army didn't like the General. I think from that
experience that I had with the army in the Orient, I think we won
the war in spite of the generals, unless you had somebody like
General Chennault, a maverick like General Chennault. The fact
that they tried to find all kinds of fault with Chennault, I thought
was despicable. I just couldn't understand such egotistical
treatment. They were jealous.

�FRANK BORING:

Could you say more about army and the AVG General.

RED PETACH:

I think that the army resented the General because he was a
maverick. He didn't follow the book; he was like Mitchell. I think
the ordinary brass, they don't like to have their ideas threatened
and their positions threatened. I think they were jealous basically,
that's my personal opinion. I don't understand why they would
reflect the same thing on the AVG, other than the fact that it would
indirectly give credit to Chennault, and they disliked Chennault so
badly that they wouldn't even consider the AVG, and later on when
they had pictures of the fellows who were killed over there, very
good pictures of it, the United States didn't want it, didn't want
those pictures, and they were given to the Chinese, the Chinese
wanted them, the Chinese cared for them. That I could never
understand.

FRANK BORING:

How about the treatment towards you specifically? Of course, you
had it too, how do you feel about the treatment towards you?

RED PETACH:

The Army? As far as the army's treatment of me is concerned, I
just - like a nonexistent, I didn't matter, I wasn't worth bothering
with. It's all right, I didn't feel one way or the other. I certainly
wasn't congratulated for doing anything. When I came back home,
it was a very tough situation. I looked up a friend of mine and
stayed with her for a while, but it was a long time before I got over
that, that my own country would treat me so shabbily. It's
something that's very hard to reconcile. I went home and I stayed
with my brother to have my delivery of my child - the child I had
was to be a girl - and since the General was so much involved in
the story, she is named Joan Claire Petatch, the Claire after Claire
Chennault, and from the day on when we had reunions, I had to
take Joan, my daughter with me. If I didn't have her, the General
would say, "Where is she?" So she went with me. The Tigers have
been good, as always.

FRANK BORING:

That was going to be my next question. Talk.

�RED PETACH:

As soon as she was able, I went back to New Haven and taught
Nursing Arts at school and raised my child, raised her myself. And
then, when she was a little older, I realized that she should be with
her family because she needed - if something happened to me, she
would have nothing. So I went back to Harrisburg and worked in
Harrisburg and lived with my brother until I found my own place
and worked in Harrisburg and raised my daughter there. It was
interesting that I when I went - I wanted to back into public health
and go back into the slums and my father didn't approve. I wanted
to work for the state and at that time the war was still going on and
the state wouldn't take me because I had too much education, they
were suspicious of a woman with a master's degree. I wanted to go
with the Visiting Nurses Association but their salaries - I couldn't
raise a child with that kind of a salary, so I went with the
Tuberculosis Society and made a career of that. I ended up as an
executive secretary of the Tuberculosis Society in those two
counties. Then I went from there to - I was Executive Director of
Pennsylvania Health Counsel, that's where I was when I met
Fletcher.

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&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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Christopher, Frank&#13;
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Misenheimer, Charles V.&#13;
P.Y. Shu</text>
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                <text>Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat.  In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days  to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her experience when Pete Petach didn't return from his last flight and her last days with the AVG.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Special Collections &amp; University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach
Date of interview: May 17, 1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring

[TAPE 8] – audio only

FRANK BORING:

Including Doc Richards, including the flight crew, these people
that you got to know over that period of time, where do you think
they fit in the scheme of history - of American history, of what
they meant to the Americans, what they meant to the Chinese?

RED PETACH:

I think the AVG as a whole meant more to the Chinese, because it
saved the Chinese and the Chinese, because of the Americans, I
think because of what the AVG did for them, were very welcome
over there. Even the communists, if you're an American, you're
welcome, and although the communists won't recognize the fact
that we existed, they Chinese still - you say an American, you've
got an entrance right there. And I think the AVG looking back on
it, at that time during the war, did the same thing for American ego
that the people in Desert Storm did for the American ego just now.
I think the valuable thing that came out of that Desert Storm is the
fact that the Americans could once again have technical skill, and
they came to realize, we can still do it if we want to. If we work at
it, we can still do it. As far as the AVG's place in history, I think it
will mean more to the Chinese than to the Americans because we
helped stop some of the butchering that was going on, the bombing
and the butchering that was going on by the Japanese. When you're
over there, just say you're American and you're welcome and that
was, I think, primarily because of the AVG, the Flying Tigers.

�They ask us many times, "Do you mean you speak to the Japanese,
they should still be our enemies." And I think as far as American is
concerned, I think the prime time during the war, with the effects
of the bombing of Pearl Harbor and this, that it gave us a victory, it
gave us a morale boost, it gave the Americans a morale boost, it
gave the Americans a morale boost that they needed and that they
could brag about.
FRANK BORING:

(Inaudible)

RED PETACH:

The one year period that I spent with the Flying Tigers changed my
life greatly, as when I was an exchange student, it changed my life.
I've never been away from home so I grew up. The experience I
had with the Flying Tigers - I was much more cynical, but I
matured, and I think I look back on it as, "that's life", it has its
good and its bad. I wouldn't change it, I wouldn't change that year
for anything, for the companionship and the experience that I had
and I will say, the way the fellows treated me over there, I was
spoiled, I was spoiled rotten, and nobody for years could compare
with the Flying Tigers, no man was worth anything but the Flying
Tigers.

�</text>
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&#13;
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.&#13;
&#13;
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Timothy Hanna
United States Army
Length of interview: (33:22)
Early life (00:00)
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(00:30) Born on November 20, 1965 in Grand Rapids, Michigan
He has two sisters and one brother
He volunteered for the army in 1984 just before graduating high school
Timothy trained at Fort Dix, New Jersey, Military life was very strict
(4:20) After training, he went to Washington (state) where he was a welder; the work
shifts often lasted over ten hours

Germany and later life (5:30)
















(5:50) Timothy received training in Germany in preparation for any Cold War hostilities
that may have occurred
(6:30) Many people in Germany were friendly to the American personnel, this had a lot
to do with the level of support the Americans gave them
(8:40) While in Germany, Timothy was a welder in a motor pool
(10:30) On the weekends, Timothy and his friends went sightseeing and visited various
bars and restaurants. There was also a large concert that brought together bands such as
Scorpions and AC/DC.
(12:00) One of his favorite places to visit was Bastogne, a key location during the Battle
of the Bulge
(13:20) When the Berlin Wall was taken down, Timothy breathed a sigh of relief, for
people were hurt trying to get out of East Germany.
(14:30) Timothy signed up for four years of active duty and two years of inactive duty. It
was during his inactive years that the Berlin Wall came down
(15:30) He was at work when he heard about the 9/11 terrorists attacks. Tim did not
rejoin the army as a result of the attacks. If they wanted him to rejoin, he figured they
would give him a call
(18:30) Upon returning from Germany, things were different. He tried to contact people
that he had not seen in four years
(21:20) On the way back from Germany, he was nervous about how much change had
occurred while he was gone
(23:20) Food was available at all times, either from the cooks or from the many
restaurants near the base. He enjoyed the different ways the Germans prepared food
(27:30) After leaving the service, Timothy immediately got a job as a machinist
(30:00) He had no fear of Russian aggression after the Berlin Wall was taken down

�</text>
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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Timothy Hanna was born on November 20, 1965 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1984, he joined the United States Army and was sent to Germany as a welder in a motor pool. While in Germany, Timothy visited iconic locations from the Second World War. He recounts various events throughout his life such as the fall of the Berlin Wall and the 9/11 terrorist attacks.</text>
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