398 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/51cf45ab78b8be9004c2a90f2360994e.jpg 4d8b853fa8fab7a5eefe061e212c0fe8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_LS00227 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource circa 1930 Title A name given to the resource Hotel tumulus Description An account of the resource Black and white lantern slide (very dark) of the Hotel Tumulus, Carnac, France. Subject The topic of the resource Lantern slides Carnac (France) Hotels Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9e3060ad3c9817949db93065812beaab.mp4 04bb307c429a360ba2897474fc57673f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd1f2332f77263d074293ffb1bf63627.pdf c1c8c401bc2679806abe0336d635c008 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Other veterans & civilians Interviewee name: Robert Hotelling Length of Interview: (00:25:26) Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Robert Hotelling Length: 25:26 (00:25) Background Information      Robert was born in Hollywood, Florida on February 19, 1958 He lived with his grandmother until he was 9 years old and then moved to Michigan In high school Robert was in the marching band and played basketball and football Robert graduated from high school in 1976 and then went to a recruiter station in Alpena to learn more about the Marines He entered into an open contract with the Marines in April 1977, signing on for 4 years of active duty (4:25) Marines  Robert was told he could go through boot camp in New York or California and he chose the latter  He went through boot camp in San Diego for 7 weeks and it was very rough  The men had to get up every day at 5:30 a.m. to go running before they had breakfast  The food was “nasty,” with powdered eggs for breakfast  Robert’s platoon had started out with 80 men and about half of them washed out  He had gone through infantry training and became an expert marksman (8:30) Administration School  After boot camp Robert had remained in California for an additional 30 days  He went through administration school to learn how to type  Robert was then assigned to a base in Hawaii; he thought Hawaii was a very nice and enjoyed the change in scenery  Robert was in Hawaii for four years working as a clerk  He had top secret security clearance, working with secret documents and delivering them to superiors (11:30) Average Days �      Usually Robert got up at 7:30 for breakfast and was to work by 8 in the administrative G1 Office They had 1 hour off for lunch at noon and they usually watched soap operas at that time The men would be out of work by 4:30 and then either go to the bar or the beach At one point a group of MPs had searched their barracks for suspected marijuana Everyone had known who the suspect was, but no one would speak up, so they were all reduced in rank Robert was reduced from corporal to lance corporal, but eventually made it back up in rank (15:55) End of Service  Robert received a free ticket to go back to Michigan  He decided to go live at his grandma’s house in Lansing and began looking for work in 1981  Robert found work in truck driving, but eventually moved to Northern Michigan to work on a sawmill  He later worked for Meijer in Grand Rapids, MI as a semi driver  Robert now lives at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hotelling, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hotelling, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Hotelling was born in Hollywood, Florida on February 19, 1958. He moved to Michigan when he was 9 years old and graduated from high school in 1976. Shortly after graduating Robert signed on for active duty with the Marines for 4 years in 1977. Robert went through boot camp in California and then through administrative school in the same area. After training, Robert was stationed in Hawaii for about four years working as a clerk with top secret security clearance. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-07-21 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HotellingR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a7fecd84721b8ea304167f3f1fc3a702.m4v f96d129cc573dc29a09b57fc137da723 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4d50d1daa280483e1e2007f47200f93.pdf 17c99595aa53b89541c1fdfa0c90942b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Milo "Mike" Houghton World War II 58 minutes 56 seconds (00:00:15) Early Life -Born in Sand Lake, Michigan in 1924. -Grew up in Sand Lake as well. -After getting into a fight at school his parents elected to have him put into the military. -He was 17 at the time. -Restricted him to serving for four years. -Entered the service at the end of December 1941. -Father and mother were farmers. -Father owned their farm. -Raised turkeys and chicken and grew crops. (00:05:00) -Had some basic machinery. -Attended grade and high school until 17. -For the most part didn’t follow news from the War. -Decided to enlist to the Navy. -A neighbor was enlisting as well. Pearl Harbor and Brisbane Australia with the USS Sperry -Sent to Great Lakes, Illinois for basic training. -Training lasted about a week. (00:10:00) -Took a train from Illinois to San Diego, California. -Prepared to board the USS Sperry. -The ship was a submarine tender. -Worked as a crane operator on the USS Sperry. -Duration of stay in San Diego was less than a week before preparation was completed. -The Sperry was newly completed and launched. -He was never seasick at all. -The trip to Pearl Harbor took about a week. -Once at Pearl Harbor he observed the docked ships were giving off smoke. (00:15:00) -Saw his brother in Pearl Harbor when they arrived. -His brother was in the military aboard the USS Virginia in Pearl Harbor. -The attack on Pearl Harbor caused him to be thrown from the ship into the water. -He survived but was badly burned. -Their stay in Pearl Harbor didn’t last long. -The USS Sperry next headed to Australia. -Docked in Brisbane harbor. -Local people were very welcoming. �-No stops along the way. -The ship traveled by itself without a convoy. (00:20:00) -At that time the submarine torpedoes were powered by alcohol. -USS Fulton was their sister ship, across the port. -Often spoke to the submarine crewmen. -A particular Captain he got to know well. -He was well respected for the amount of Japanese submarines they would destroy. (00:25:00) -Were not allowed to have cameras to secure information about submarine technology. -Their stay in Brisbane lasted for quite a while. -During that time they were not attacked by Japanese aircraft. -Did not have access to news or communication from the US. -Did not stop at Pearl Harbor on the return trip. -Directly to San Diego. -After crossing the International Date Line, the veteran crew hazed the newer crew members. -Upon returning to the US received two weeks of leave to go home. South Pacific and Okinawa with the USS Kittson (00:30:00) -Took a train to Michigan with another military friend. -Upon returning to San Diego he was assigned to the USS Kittson. -He was assigned to the job of transporting the landing crafts. -USS Kittson was new at the time. -Group of Army soldiers would climb rope nets down to the boat. -Training for the Higgins boats took place in San Diego. -The boats took quite a bit of muscle power to row. -Especially weighed down with crew and materials. -He embarks on the USS Kittson. -The year is still 1944. (00:35:00) -Ship’s destination is for the South Pacific and Okinawa. -Can’t recall whether the voyage was solo or part of a convoy. -At Okinawa the Kittson picked up members of the US Army. -The first day present in Okinawa was a “beautiful day”. -When dusk came about the Japanese aircraft attacked. -His role was rowing the boats with men to and from the ships. -During this span of three weeks all he had to eat was rice. (00:40:00) -At Midway he recalls the sight of the Albatrosses near the runway. -Required him to chase them away from the danger of the runway area. -The type of boat he was manning was not retrieved to the carrier at night. -His boat stayed in the water the entire three week period. -Kamikaze pilots would fly so low that the pilots were recognizable. -During his time ferrying Army crew they did receive water from the ship or on land. (00:45:00) �-After Okinawa the Kittson was prepared and situated to be part of the invasion of Japan. -Since the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the War it wasn’t necessary. Post War Life -After the War ended the military very much wanted him to re-enlist. -He had no interest in returning. -He was honorably discharged and given a Ruptured Duck lapel pin. -He was not given transportation home. -Had to hitchhike on ships back to the US. (00:50:00) -In San Diego he “hitchhiked” on a train, riding on the outside. -After his experiences in Okinawa he had contracted Jungle Rot. -After a Dr. treatment it soon cleared up. -After returning home he attempted to return to farm work. -Crops didn’t turn out as expected. (00:55:00) -Instead he became a carpenter. -Mostly building of small houses. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HoughtonM1900V Title A name given to the resource Houghton, Milo (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-11-18 Description An account of the resource Milo "Mike" Houghton was born in Sand Lake, Michigan in 1924. At the age of 17 he enlisted in the Navy in December of 1941. At Great Lakes Illinois he received his brief basic training. He was bound for the USS Sperry departing out of San Diego, California where they headed to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. The attack on Pearl Harbor had taken place so recently that ships were still smoking. There he was relieved to encounter his brother who was injured in the attack, but survived. Next the Sperry took him to Brisbane, Australia where they remained for some time. Eventually the Sperry returned to San Diego and Houghton would next be departing on the USS Kittson. In 1944 the Kittson traveled the South Pacific and on then to Okinawa. It was at the battle of Okinawa in 1945 where Houghton worked to ferry members of the Army to and from the ships. Although on board the Kittson and prepared to invade Japan, the end of the War made this unnecessary and he was soon honorably discharged thereafter. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Houghton, Milo Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e51ec35550d253fc01272d6e76506ea3.jpg 63ac11db803c2107b9977870d552f153 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_FilmPacks_V_39_005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-08-20 Title A name given to the resource House excavation begun Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a man standing next to a car behind a large hole. Subject The topic of the resource Excavation Building Foundations Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d354b8d135fb1e113175db7d00efa504.jpg 188128dfac6ce7f1610785990434f31e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_FilmPacks_V_39_006 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-09-02 Title A name given to the resource House foundation poured Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of the foundation of a house. Subject The topic of the resource Excavation Building Foundations Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e1e467287b92f5629ffb20193050db18.jpg be54071d66eb263c2647f4f78099aaa0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_FilmPacks_8_006 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1937-04-06 Title A name given to the resource House of Pansa Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Robert H. Merrill standing in the House of Pansa between two walls with columns in the background. A sign on the right side of the frame reads "DOMVS CN ALLEI NIGIDI MAI." Subject The topic of the resource Archaeology Archaeological sites Italy Pompeii (Extinct city) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ffc92d707c0902f8f13917f66017b619.jpg c010e22a3f2f81ec34932b18e6f3a573 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Slides_House-with-Ladder Title A name given to the resource House with ladder Description An account of the resource A red-tinted picture of a large white house. A tree is in front of the house, and there is a ladder propped against it. There is a wagon and what appears to be a dog in the bottom left corner Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of History as part of the Stories of Summer Project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5d35f901ccc07c2d23e8017a7f46deec.jpg 5318555f158a6b88b06a0e040145b3ca Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-O_Leary-04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource O'Leary, Virginia Title A name given to the resource Houses on the Water Description An account of the resource A wide shot of the water. Across the water from where the photo is taken, there are several houses. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Lakes Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dd714c7658ada1f625cbff373014f6c1.jpg 72eedfa6cf17169c85a1552d6bfca0d7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-O_Leary-06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource O'Leary, Virginia Title A name given to the resource Houses on the Water Description An account of the resource A photo of five houses on the water in what appears to be fall due to the color of the leaves in the trees around the houses. It is taken from across the body of water. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Lakes Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/062c4deeb2ae0c6cc098ca29dc850119.jpg 45253800a1ff67fc117059ff587dbd76 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-O_Leary-07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource O'Leary, Virginia Title A name given to the resource Houses on the Water Description An account of the resource A photo of seven houses on the water in what appears to be fall due to the color of the leaves in the trees around the houses. It is taken from across the body of water. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Lakes Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a298e4e48c3793aa3ce4c05f4c8318bd.jpg 5534159295a18c6dd2ac7869bf969b18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1459 Title A name given to the resource Hova French destroyer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Hova French DD (destroyer), September 1, 1948. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides France Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948-09-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/466098295a92204ff01d6617cef00c2e.mp4 0726ba93a6b0b9c8780c53443053fe5b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/97620d8dd38248df8e8655d0b1d1f4e9.pdf 6c4482f8515e4050608d929de3d1a76a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Joseph Hovinga World War II 58 minutes (00:00:10) Early Life -Born on January 3, 1923 in Dorr, Michigan -His father worked at Nash-Kelvinator in Grand Rapids, Michigan which made refrigerators -His mother was a housewife -They moved to Grand Rapids so that his father could walk to work -His father was able to have regular work throughout the Great Depression -There were eight children in the family, but two of them died -He attended South High School in Grand Rapids, but eventually left -Worked at Nash-Kelvinator with his father (00:03:16) Start of the War & Awareness of It -Remembers hearing about the bombing of Pearl Harbor on the radio -Prior to Pearl Harbor he hadn’t paid attention to the war in Europe and Asia -This meant that when Pearl Harbor happened it was a shock (00:04:07) Enlisting -Initially he didn’t plan on enlisting -His friends started to enlist or get drafted which motivated him to enlist in the Army -He went to Kalamazoo, Michigan to enlist and get sworn into the Army -Chose heavy weapons to be his specialization -Enlisted in 1942 (00:05:40) Training -Sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma for training with heavy weapons -If they weren’t training with the artillery guns they would be marching -During training at Fort Sill he and another recruit went into town -The other recruit got drunk and a fight ensued -After Fort Sill he was sent to Fort Ord, California -Travelled from Fort Sill to Fort Ord by way of train -Remembers on the way they passed by a group of girls -He threw his military address out the window hoping that one would write -Wound up receiving a letter from one of those girls -At Fort Ord he trained with the 81mm mortar -He also received training at Fort Indiantown-Gap, Pennsylvania with the 105mm howitzer -Stayed at Fort Ord into 1943 -They were allowed to go off the base while at Fort Ord -There was a nearby town that could be reached by bus, but it wasn’t very large -He was paid $21 per month while in training -Fort Ord was located in farm country -While at Fort Ord they would routinely go out to the firing line to practice with mortars (00:14:52) Aleutian Islands Campaign -From Fort Ord he was sent to Hawaii �-From Hawaii boarded a troopship and sailed to the Aleutian Islands in Alaska -En route they were given winter clothing to prepare for the cold temperatures -He took part in the fighting on Attu Island in May 1943 -Landed on Attu Island by using a landing craft -They were told there wouldn’t be much of a Japanese presence on the island -When they arrived they found this to be false -The Japanese would come down out of the mountains using the low hanging clouds for cover -Usually came down in small groups to attack them -He only had his rifle at this point because they didn’t have mortars yet -He was part of H Company 32nd Infantry Regiment 7th Infantry Division -Specifically attached to a mortar unit, but fighting as a rifleman at this point -Stayed on Attu for about one month -Remembers that it was daylight all the time which made sleep difficult -He saw a lot of dead Japanese soldiers on Attu -The surviving Japanese were evacuated by a submarine -He drove a truck around to collect the dead Japanese to be buried in a mass grave -Attu Island was his first exposure to combat -H Company had not taken any casualties though -After the island was secured they took over Japanese construction equipment and built roads (00:20:44) Returning to Hawaii -After the Aleutian Islands they returned to Hawaii for further training -Stationed at temporary barracks located next to Schofield Barracks, Hawaii -Hawaii was a good place to be -Remembers seeing a lot of American planes flying overhead going into the Pacific Theatre -He was able to visit Honolulu a few times -Remembers that some of the men would go into town and drink and cause trouble -He was not one of those men though -Generally returned to Hawaii between campaigns for further training -Only exception was when they went to Okinawa from the Philippines -The main focus of their training was to prepare for amphibious assaults -This included learning how to swim and how to climb down into a landing craft (00:24:57) Marshall Islands Campaign -On February 1, 1944 his unit took part in the invasion of Kwajalein, Marshall Islands -It was a very easy battle -There was hardly any enemy resistance on the island -Able to take it very quickly -The entire battle only lasted five days -They only notable enemy contact he remembers was a Japanese sniper -H Company didn’t take many casualties during this battle either -At night they would set up trip flares -If a Japanese soldier tripped one it illuminated the area and they could shoot him -After the island had been secured they spent most of their time training and relaxing -They returned to Hawaii afterwards and were given more training to prepare for further attacks (00:28:04) The Philippines -After the Marshall Islands they were sent to take part in the liberation of the Philippines -This would have been in October 1944 �-By the time he arrived the fighting had already begun -On the Philippines he saw the brutality the Japanese inflicted against the Filipinos -Landed on the island of Leyte -H Company’s duty was to act as a support unit if the units on the frontline needed help -Gave him a chance to be in the rear and eat hot food as opposed to rations -On the Philippines they were given a malaria vaccination -Afterwards told to go exercise to allow the medicine to circulate better and faster -At night there was always the threat of Japanese soldiers breaking through their perimeter -He remembers one night four or five enemy soldiers got up to the perimeter -He had to make sure he didn’t shoot his own men in the process -On the Philippines mortars were used more often -First they would get coordinates and fire smoke rounds to cover the infantry -Next they would fire regular mortar rounds at the coordinates given -Sometimes it was sustained fire, other times it was only a few rounds -Didn’t run the risk of the mortar tube overheating and melting -The Philippines were pretty bad for a while -They wound up being tasked with pursuing the Japanese inland -Had to travel on foot -Each mortar crew had four men (on average) -He fought alongside the same group of men throughout the war (00:37:44) The Battle of Okinawa -After the Philippines the 32nd Infantry Regiment was sent to Okinawa on April 1, 1945 -They arrived after the invasion had commenced -Japanese resistance was stiff and they had retreated into the caves on the island -First they tried to convince them to leave the caves and surrender -They wouldn’t give up, so they had to burn them out with flamethrowers -His unit was tasked with mop up operations -Gathering prisoners of war and killing any Japanese soldiers that chose to fight -On Okinawa they would encounter groups of civilians that were surrendering to U.S. troops -Had to treat them with caution and suspicion because they might be combatants too -Remembers finding a coral cave that was occupied by a Japanese soldier -All he had on him was a sword and he finally surrendered after some coaxing -Joe confiscated the sword and was able to take it home with him -He found a Japanese doctor that spoke fluent English -He had studied in America and returned to Japan to visit his family -When the war began he was conscripted into the Imperial Army against his will -He surrendered immediately -He was on Okinawa when the news came that Japan had surrendered (00:42:40) End of the War & Coming Home -He was one of the first men to go home because he had enough “points” -Points were awarded based on rank, length of service, and action seen -As an enlisted man he needed eighty five points to be discharged -By June 1945 the fighting on Okinawa was over -Spent most of their time building roads and cleaning up the island -He left Okinawa with a few other men -The rest of the 32nd was sent to Korea to oversee the surrender of Japanese forces there �-He remembers watching a movie on Okinawa when the Japanese surrender was announced -Everyone cheered and fired their guns into the air because the war was finally over -He was placed on a troopship and went directly to San Francisco then to Fort Ord, California -From California he was sent to Camp McCoy, Wisconsin to be discharged -When he arrived he was allowed to go home because his paperwork wasn’t ready -After a week he returned to McCoy and he was discharged from the Army (00:46:10) Life after the War -He returned to Grand Rapids, Michigan -When he got back to Grand Rapids he had a confrontation with a woman on a bus -She had assumed that he hadn’t served and was upset because her son was still overseas -He clarified that he had already served for three years and she was kicked off -He took some time off from work and was in Michigan’s “52-20 Club” -Given $20 a week for fifty two weeks as part of the GI Bill -He met his wife in Grand Rapids when he went to a roller skating rink -He returned to work for Nash-Kelvinator for a while -After that he got a job working for A&P driving semi-trucks (00:50:40) Getting Wounded -When he was on Okinawa he was wounded and received a Purple Heart -He had been standing next to another man talking when a mortar round landed on them -The one man was killed and he (Joe) was wounded and evacuated -He was taken to a Landing Ship, Tank that was being used as a hospital ship -He had been hit in the head by a piece of shrapnel that had travelled along his scalp -He stayed on the ship for a month and then returned to Okinawa (00:52:53) Reflections on Service -Feels that his service made him more intelligent -You had to learn things fast when you were in the Army -Survival depended on being able to pick things up quickly and apply them (00:54:06) Interacting with Japanese Civilians -When he was on Okinawa he met a little Japanese boy that was starving -Joe decided that he would take care of him and would get extra food to share with him -He was always very grateful -Remembers that there were a lot of orphans on Okinawa -On Okinawa there was a Japanese woman that had a gaping leg wound with maggots in it -Joe decided to treat the wound by putting a powder in the wound that killed the maggots -Afterwards he bandaged up her leg -He doesn’t know whatever happened to her � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HovingaJ1733V Title A name given to the resource Hovinga, Joseph (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015 Description An account of the resource Joseph Hovinga was born in 1923 in Dorr, Michigan. He grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan and enlisted in the Army in 1942. He trained at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania, and Fort Ord, California. He was sent to Hawaii and was assigned to H Company 32nd Infantry Regiment 7th Infantry Division. He saw action on Attu Island in the Aleutian Islands Campaign, on Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands Campaign, on Leyte in the Philippines, and on Okinawa. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hovinga, Joseph Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/405f89cc66c27699b050cda79bbac090.mp3 12fcf77a372401661a039506248e70ee Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Eastertide II Series From Proclaimer To the One Proclaimed Scripture Text Romans 1:1-17, John 20:24-31 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19920426 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1992-04-26 Title A name given to the resource How a Man Became God Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on April 26, 1992 entitled "How a Man Became God", as part of the series "From Proclaimer To the One Proclaimed", on the occasion of Eastertide II, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Romans 1:1-17, John 20:24-31. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61af7d42a1f4b893095dc29ee880acce.pdf 78528034b9b5ddda3491689a1528b2ef PDF Text Text How Can I Pray? From the series: Can I Honestly Believe? Text: Genesis 32:24; Psalm 139:23; Luke 11:1 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan July 26, 1998 Transcription of the spoken sermon I had thought that I had entitled the message today, "Can I Pray?" and I thought all I had to say was, "Surely. The offering will be received and let’s go to the beach." But then I realized that it was, "How Can I Pray?" and that puts a little different light on it, and as I speak this morning about prayer, I want to say this: To speak about prayer is to speak about the most intimate devotional relationship of one’s life, and one ought to do it with great sensitivity. Preaching about prayer is not praying. Preaching about prayer is taking a step back and thinking about prayer, and that’s a far cry from the act itself, the devotion itself. I want to say this morning in regard to this subject, and it’s always true about every subject, that no one can answer such a question for you. Only you know if you can pray. No tyrant in a political role can deny you that, that inner sanctum of the person that is holy ground and, thank God, no one can control that inward being. And in this relationship, no preacher can tell you, either. You may say to me, "Well, we look to you for guidance." That’s fair enough. I’ll think in your presence. I’ll think out loud, and as I think out loud, I hope you’re thinking silently so that we’re having a real conversation. But I’m not an authority figure and I refuse to be that for you. If you see me as an authority figure, I want to say to you, grow up. Get off on your own. I cannot bear the weight of your soul. I’m going to do the best I can and honestly struggle with the questions that I think are very, very important, critical questions in the living of our lives and in our relationship to that Ultimate Mystery that is God. But, don’t take me seriously. Don’t believe what I say just because I say it. Listen to what I say. Argue with what I say. Debate me. You’re grown people, and the church too long has fostered a kind of dependency and kept people in a state of immaturity, as though if the minister said it, it’s so. Well, it’s just not so, especially if this minister says it. As I speak a bit about prayer this morning, I am conscious that there are those of you out there who are farther along in the school of prayer than I ever will be. And there are those of you who have a deeper experience of prayer than I’ve ever © Grand Valley State University   �How Can I Pray? Richard A. Rhem Page 2   had and, when I speak about prayer this morning, I will be seeking to clarify some questions. I’ve long since known that my greatest contribution to the human race would not be to provide answers, but rather, to help people clarify the questions, because what good would it do if I said to you, "Cease praying, it makes no sense." Would you stop? Or, if I said, "Oh, indeed, it makes a lot of sense." Would you start or keep on doing it? I wanted to say that this morning about this particular message about prayer, but I want to say it generally. Don’t believe everything I say. Just engage with me in some thoughtful reflection. That’s my responsibility. And you carry yours, as well. So, how can I pray? Well, the context for the question is the series that we’re in and that series began with my talking about religion, in which I made the claim that religion is a human, creative, imaginative construct. Religion is a human phenomenon. Whatever in-breaking of mystery, whatever experience and encounter of the sacred and the holy, whatever that may be, and whatever may be behind that, the human family has responded to that sense of awe before mystery with the construction of religious systems, things that are believed, modes of worship, manner of living. Basically, that’s what human religion is. That’s what our Christian tradition is - a set of beliefs, a manner of worship, a mode of living. And, if that is true, then I suggested to you that it is time we worked on the image of God. Again, not because I say so, but because generally as a part of the whole western culture of which we are a part, the theistic idea of God has been called in question. Maybe not by you and, if not by you, then for goodness sakes, you can leave right now. You don’t need to listen any further. But there are a lot of our contemporaries who are having difficulty with the theistic conception of God, which is a conception of God which has marked the whole western tradition, that is the God of our hymns, of our prayers, of our liturgies, of our everyday, common thinking about God. When we talk about calling in question the theistic conception of God, that is, a God "out there," a Supreme monarch, ruling, directing, employing invasive processes once in a while, a God episodic in that God dips in here and there and, what would appear from the human point of view, capriciously, arbitrarily, monkeys in this point and dabbles in that point, but a God supreme, omniscient, all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful - that conception of God that I grew up with in Sunday School, that I for many years preached from the pulpit - that God, that conception of God is in trouble. Now, if religion is a human construct, that doesn’t mean that God is in trouble. It means that a conception of God has been called into question. And if that conception is not a problem for you, you have no problem whatsoever with what I’m going to be saying. But, if it is a problem for you, then, you see, if God is not that enthroned monarch out there somewhere, then that’s where this question of prayer comes in. Then what does prayer mean? If God is not a larger-than-life supernatural parent in the sky, then what does it mean to pray? That’s the question. © Grand Valley State University �How Can I Pray? Richard A. Rhem Page 3   I cited in your liturgy the section from Marcus Borg’s book, The God We Never Knew. I like Marcus Borg because, when I meet him, when I talk with him, when I read his writings, I feel he’s a person who has had a spiritual experience. Marcus Borg speaks a language or in a tone quality that resonates with me. And yet, he thinks about it. He’s thought about it very deeply and he acknowledges that the old image of God made it impossible for him any longer to pray; he could not pray to that God "out there" enthroned in the heavens, controlling things on earth. He needed a new image of God, and so he was working at that. So, he says, "I couldn’t operate with that old image." At that point many of our contemporaries have ceased to pray. You realize that; that’s why many have simply dropped out of the spiritual endeavor at all, because that didn’t make sense, so one just gives it up. Marcus Borg is unwilling simply to give it up. He says, "How can I image God, then, so that prayer becomes a continuingly meaningful experience for me?" And he is clearer at what he cannot conceive of than how it works. I like a person who says, "I don’t know how it works. I can’t explain it." But, he says, "I know this that old thing doesn’t work. For example, in relationship to the Holocaust, if God controls human history and the Holocaust happens, then God is a devil." It’s time for the pulpit to do some plain speaking. How long have we hidden behind the idea of mystery, or, God simply doesn’t reveal God’s decrees, or someday we’ll understand. That’s ridiculous. If God could stop the Holocaust and God didn’t stop the Holocaust, then something’s wrong with God. That kind of God I can’t believe in. I can’t worship. Marcus Borg is quite right. Let’s get honest about it. Obviously, that is not the kind of God that we really worship, a God Who’s pulling strings here and there. That just doesn’t work. He says I still make requests, but it seems to be the natural way for me to care for another, and when I pray, it’s my attending to my relationship to God. Well, the theologian that probably popularized in common understanding across the church and beyond this whole idea of a God "out there" that was out of style was John A. T. Robinson, the Anglican Bishop, and in his little book published in 1963, Honest to God, which created such a stir, obviously if he began saying that image of God out there enthroned beyond the universe doesn’t work for me, then obviously he has to deal with this question of prayer, and so he, too, on the cover of your liturgy says, "What is, then, intercession?" Can we have even a nonreligious idea of prayer? Well, he struggles to say, when I care for another with an ultimate concern, isn’t that the heart of intercession? In other words, if I open myself up to another person, if I care about that person, if the compassion flows out of me to another, if there is an ultimate concern in that relationship, then is not in that relationship the presence of another? Is that not to involve God in the relationship, or is that not what it means to have God in a relationship? And if that does make some sense, I think it probably is what the writer of first John was saying in the fourth chapter, when he says the one who loves abides in God and © Grand Valley State University �How Can I Pray? Richard A. Rhem Page 4   God abides in that one. In the horizontal relationship there is the experience of that other dimension full of awe. And if that is the case in a human relationship, person-to-person, might it not be true also in that relationship one has to oneself? Now, I don’t know about this, but I’ve been thinking about the story of Jacob wrestling with the angel, or with a man. It’s an old, old tale of patriarchs. Jacob’s been a cheat and a deceiver and a manipulator. Now he’s on the threshold of facing his brother and it’s as though the film of his life runs before him and he wrestles all night. I don’t think there was anybody out there. I think Jacob was wrestling with Jacob, don’t you? Jacob had a relationship to Jacob. There is a self-consciousness about us. That’s what marks us as human beings. We jump out of our skin and look at our self. We survey our life; we examine our self, our motives, our reactions. We look over the story of our life; we get out of ourselves and look at ourselves. There is also a relationship between myself and me, and is not that perhaps what it means to wrestle with God? Is that just a mumbling monologue within my own psyche, or is that precisely the area? Is there a kind of objectivization of myself, where I am able to see myself, and in that seeing myself, see myself not off in some dark corner, but conscious that my life is an open book, and before some objective reality greater than myself, I stand either in integrity or without integrity, either in wholeness or in brokenness, either with some sense of serenity or total disarray. And is that not to pray? The Psalmist was aware that he didn’t make himself. The Psalmist was aware that there is something rather than nothing. The Psalmist, in beautiful poetic fashion, marvels before the wonder of the whole of reality into which his little life is laced. And then, something of that human rises in him, that hostility, the anger, and all of a sudden he becomes self-conscious and says, "Search me, O God," which is that searching more than my own coming to awareness of myself in the presence of a mystery that is greater than myself. What could be more effective in regard to prayer than just that? Well, it’s easier to say what doesn’t seem to work than to come to understand what does work. We have poets who are struggling to say it in a new way, the universe that Marcus Borg or John A. T. Robinson couldn’t come to terms with in terms of the old image of prayers expressed marvelously well by an English scientist, Richard Dawkins. He is at the other end of the spectrum from a Marcus Borg or a Robinson; he is a reductionist who believes that everything is simply electronic charges and energy and so on. He says, "If the universe were just electrons and selfish genes, meaningless tragedies like the crashing of a bus are exactly what we should expect, along with equally meaningless good fortune, such a universe would be neither evil nor good in intention. It would manifest no intentions of any kind. In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice." © Grand Valley State University �How Can I Pray? Richard A. Rhem Page 5   Don’t you love it? I love smart. That’s smart. That’s clear. That’s a hard-headed, honest statement. No religious, foggy mumbo-jumbo. And Richard Dawkins is not a demon. He would stand here and he could pile evidence upon evidence upon evidence to support this conclusion. There is nothing. Nobody. No mind, no purpose, nothing’s going anywhere, it’s all a chance kind of a thing popping off here and there, and where it will go, who will go. You can choose that with reasonably good data, or you can find others who will say, "That doesn’t say enough for me. I choose to believe that there is operative something more in the whole cosmic process into which I have come, have emerged into consciousness." And some of those others are poets who are trying to say it in a new way. Did you catch the hymns this morning? You did, didn’t you? You were grumbling, I could see. Well, you can complain to Betty VanTil because she passed along to me that opening hymn a long time ago. "Praise God Whose Providential Awkwardness." Have you ever thought of providence being awkward? Well, take one look at the world. This God of ours is not very handy. Wouldn’t you think that God could do a better job of putting things together? Praise God whose providential awkwardness defies our human scrutiny, whose wisdom looks like foolishness, whose purposes seem cloaked in mystery. And I love the fact that he says, "Praise God for what we fail to comprehend, for silence. Praise God for the fact that we are not God. Praise for the fact that our arrogance is often reduced to silence, where we would better stand in awe, not knowing. And praise God Who gives us restless hearts and minds, Who still is both our Source and Resting Place." Now, that’s an image I can live with. I like that. The Source, Resting Place. The poet is trying to figure out how to say something in a manner which honors the data of which we are aware, of our world, which is so vastly different than the data out of which the old system was constructed. The next hymn was written by W. H. Vanstone, an Anglican clergyman who wrote a book about God, who also could not believe in this God of omnipotence and omniscience and all of the omnis and all of the aura that we ascribe to the God that we want to be there, to be in control so we don’t have to take responsibility for our own lives. Vanstone says, no, He’s not that way. God is not that way. God is an abyss of love that is continually giving of itself in an anguishing, agonizing way to bring forth. You can meditate on this hymn for the rest of the week. "Open are the gifts of God, gifts of love to mind and sense;" ... that’s obvious, he says. "Hidden is love’s agony, love’s endeavor, love’s expense. Love that gives, gives evermore, gives with zeal, with eager hands, spares not, keeps not, all out-pours, ventures all, its all expands. Drained is love in making full, bound in setting others free, poor in making many rich, weak in giving power to be." And finally, here’s God, "no monarch he, throned in easy state to reign; here is God, whose arms of love, aching, spent, the world sustain." The poets are working at it, and you’re going to have to work at it, too. © Grand Valley State University �How Can I Pray? Richard A. Rhem Page 6   How can I pray? Well, begin by simply stopping long enough to be aware, attentive, in communion with your own soul. And, in communion with one’s own soul, there may appear to be that other dimension, call it what you will. But, you see, prayer is the language of the soul. Prayer is the utterance of the heart. Prayer is that expression to which we must give expression, lest we burst. And so, how can you pray? Just be human, I think. And we’ll keep thinking about it. But, can you pray? Surely. References: Marcus Borg. The God We Never Knew: Beyond Dogmatic Religion to a More Authentic Contemporary Faith. HarperOne, 1998. John A.T. Robinson. Honest to God. Westminster John Knox Press, 1963; 40th Anniversary edition, 2003. © Grand Valley State University � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/770333117ad98975276b289f7960db9b.mp3 c270693a2a4aeed1095ebd03cafb3f4d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Pentecost VIII Series Can I Honestly Believe? Scripture Text Genesis 32:24, Psalm 139:23, Luke 11:1 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI References John A. T. Robinson, Honest to God, 1963 2003 Marcus J. Borg, The God We Never Knew: Beyond Dogmatic Religion to a MoreAuthentic Contemporary Faith, 1998. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19980726 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1998-07-26 Title A name given to the resource How Can I Pray? Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on July 26, 1998 entitled "How Can I Pray?", as part of the series "Can I Honestly Believe?", on the occasion of Pentecost VIII, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Genesis 32:24, Psalm 139:23, Luke 11:1. Natue of God Prayer Religion as a Human Construct https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/12795f43cb999b34de75a4bbf748b5d1.mp3 2ece75a84360c7f8cac4a07cecf5e799 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Christmastide I Scripture Text Luke 2:13 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19931226 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1993-12-26 Title A name given to the resource How Can We Keep From Singing! Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 26, 1993 entitled "How Can We Keep From Singing!", on the occasion of Christmastide I, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Luke 2:13. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/73bcbcff0c694e4a78d76b3685075f55.mp3 ea0ace3691c9cc1427f1a05b10d188ea https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7a10edce973ae95b1a87853834f0bf3c.pdf 2ae4a2b011edb36d54983b4229ea6326 PDF Text Text How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Text: Isaiah 49:6; Luke 2:32, 34-35 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan Epiphany, January 18, 1987 Transcription of the spoken sermon …I will make you a light to the nations, to be my salvation to earth’s fartherest bounds. Isaiah 49:6 …a light that will be a revelation to the heathen… Luke 2:32 …This child is destined to be a sign which men reject…many in Israel will stand or fall because of him…the secret thoughts of many will be laid bare. Luke 2:3435 How do you respond when Truth dawns upon you? That is the question posed by the title of the message. The question needs some explaining. "When Truth dawns upon you," already says something about my understanding of how we come to a knowledge of Truth – insight into the deepest levels of Truth, the Truth about our identity and destiny, about the world and history, about God as a "given." It is given in a moment of unveiling when Truth shows itself. The deepest Truth is Truth of revelation. This is not to disparage or denigrate patient experimentation, exploration and research; it is only to affirm that the secret of deepest mysteries of life, of the world and God are not at the conclusion of a mathematical computation nor a logical syllogism; rather, in a flash of insight, the Truth shows itself. Thus, I ask about Truth dawning. I ask also about response to Truth; how do we respond to the Truth that shows itself, manifests itself? Do we yield to it, allowing ourselves to be changed by it? Do we resist it? Deny it? Close ourselves against it? The question arises in this season of Epiphany. God is manifest in our world; we have seen the light of revelation of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. © Grand Valley State University   �How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Richard A. Rhem Page 2   The Prophet understood that God would bring the light of truth to the world. He understood that Israel had been the "place" of revelation and also that it was Israel's role to be the Servant of the Lord to bring light to the nations. The universalism present already in the call of Abraham would be effected – through the Servant of the Lord – Israel and, specifically, one who would arise from Israel. Reflect for a moment. Advent - Coming. The Lord's coming. The Prophet sensed the Kingdom was dawning in the release of the Exiles. Comfort ye, comfort ye, my people. You who bring Zion good news, up with you to the mountaintop; …cry to the cities of Judah, your God is here. Last week we heard that beautiful word from Isaiah 42: Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight. …He will not break a bruised reed, or snuff out a smouldering wick…I have formed you, and appointed you to be a light to all peoples, a beacon for the nations… The Old Testament Lesson repeats the Servant's calling — I will make you a light to the nations, to be my salvation to earth’s fartherest bound. Israel lived in expectation of One who would come, who would bring salvation to the nation and to the nations. Christmas - the birth of the Promised One - a Saviour; good news of a great joy to all people. The Light shines in the darkness for the Word becomes flesh, full of grace and Truth. Epiphany - unveiling, manifestation, revelation; Light has come into the world. Jesus said, "I am the Light of the world." Now, the question is how will we respond? The Gospels tell us that the presence of the Light elicits a double reaction: some receive the light with joy and find salvation; some resist the light and miss God's gracious gift. Already in the Nativity stories we are forewarned that the response to this child will be mixed. Matthew recorded that as we saw last week; the wise men stopped at Herod's Court to inquire where the child was born whose star they had seen. Herod's © Grand Valley State University �How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Richard A. Rhem Page 3   response was not joy that the Earth had received the gift of a child who would be a King. Rather, he searched for the child to destroy it and, failing to find it, slaughtered all male children two years old and under. Hostility already at the beginning! The Wise Men worshiped; Herod murdered. Luke gives us a shadow of foreboding at the beginning, as well. Old Simeon, a devout and trusting servant of God, was waiting for that dramatic movement through which God would redeem His people and bring light to the world. As the child was brought to the Temple, the Spirit nudged old Simeon. He took the child in his arms and uttered those familiar and beautiful words. Now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace … for mine eyes have seen thy salvation … a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to thy people Israel. A beautiful response, indeed. Simeon had prayed and waited and one day, holding the child, the truth dawned on him. He embraced the child and embraced the Truth. But Simeon had more to say; he went on to say, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against … that the thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed. A sign spoken against, a sign of contradiction. This child would elicit a double response: some would fall, some rise. Epiphany is a season that reminds us that God is manifest in the world -that He came to us in Jesus Christ, whose birth we celebrated so recently and whose passion and death we will be all too soon remembering. Epiphany is a bridge period in which we recognize the presence in our world of Truth and light and move from the joyful celebration of its dawning to the awful remembrance when we did our best to douse the light by killing the one in whom it dawned. It is that sobering reality that we confront in this message. We are always placed before the choice to walk in the light or to choose the darkness. I have a book on my desk entitled, Jesus, Inspiring and Disturbing Presence. We have been celebrating the inspiring side of the equation, the joy, the hope, the love that came to us in Jesus. But, there is the other side – the call to decision, the call to repentance, the call to die to self and follow Jesus in the life of service and sacrifice. © Grand Valley State University �How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Richard A. Rhem Page 4   Jesus is not an interesting figure of the past; he is very much the present, living Lord. In the Atlantic Monthly of December, 1986, there is a lengthy essay entitled, "Who Do Men Say That I Am?" It is a superb summary of the understanding of Jesus through the centuries. David Tracy, theologian at the University of Chicago, is quoted as saying that more has been written about Jesus in the last twenty years than in the previous two thousand. "Jesus is very much a figure of discussion and controversy in our present world and the followers of Jesus to the extent that they are true to what came to expression in him will be at the center of controversy in the world." He is absolutely right. Our world is not through with Jesus. It is very easy for us to slip into a mode of thinking that Jesus is a figure of the past. Christmas with all of the beautiful pageantry, and all the sentimentality that arises in our hearts, sometimes veils from our eyes the reality of the living Jesus, the living Lord in our world today. And, as a matter of fact, Jesus Christ continues to be the linchpin of history, and the very center of our world. John said of him, “The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has never overcome it.” But the darkness has never ceased trying to overcome it. Matthew tipped us off in the very beginning, just like Luke. He told about the worship of the Magi. And in that he saw the coming of the Gentiles to the light of Christ, but in the course of that narrative, he recorded the stop in Herod’s Court, and Herod’s fear and paranoia and Herod’s slaughter of the innocent children. In an effort to wipe out this child whose birth was announced with a star. So, at the very beginning of the gospel, there were already foreshadowings of that which is to come. We are warned by both Matthew and Luke in the very nativity stories that this child will be a source of contradiction in the world: that there is something in Jesus that will cut against the grain of this world, that there is something in Jesus that will encounter us and confront us and judge us, that there is something in Jesus that will call us to die in order to be made new and to follow him as his disciple. It is not all sweetness and light! There is violence, there is darkness, there is the hostility against the light already in the gospel narrative of his birth. And so I ask you this morning, on this second Sunday of Epiphany, the light that shines in our world: How do you respond when truth dawns upon you? What difference does it make in your life that Jesus has come? What difference does it make in your living, that you claim to be a disciple of Jesus Christ? How are you different? What decisions do you make and what transformation has occurred because you follow Jesus? That’s the question of Epiphany. For it is one thing to celebrate the presence of the Light and it is another thing to ask ourselves how seriously we walk in the Light. Our world is not done with Jesus Christ. And, as those who claim him as Savior and have pledged to follow him as Lord, let me ask you. How do you respond when light dawns on you? Well, let me ask it this way. When is the last time you © Grand Valley State University �How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Richard A. Rhem Page 5   had a new thought? When is the last time you found yourself confronted with an insight that challenged a long-held conviction? How long has it been since in the presence of Jesus Christ or contemplating who he is and what his word says, that you have changed an opinion, that you have altered an attitude, that you have found your lifestyle modified by the fact that the light has dawned upon us? Our world is not yet done with Jesus Christ. And it is one thing to believe in Him; it is another to follow Him! It is one thing to have a kind of intellectual assent to the fact that he lived and died and maybe rose again. It is another thing to have him be the pattern of our living and to pattern our living in the light of who he was and what he calls us to be. Our world is not yet done with Jesus Christ. He is still the center and he is still full of controversy and he is still full of contradiction. If we have not found our lives contradicted by Jesus, we can be sure that we have not heard the gospel. We have a way in this twentieth century, in this affluent America, in this Christian church, we have a way of domesticating the gospel, of taking the sharpness off the corners, and of trivializing the message. We forget the radicality of the things that Jesus stood for. It is not easy to be a twentieth-century American and to follow Jesus. Much easier, I believe, to have been a peasant in Palestine, much easier to follow Jesus if one is disinvested, disenfranchised, if one is oppressed, if one has no vested interest in anything, if one has no place to go but up. Then it is not hard to forsake everything and follow Jesus. But how does one follow Jesus when one is a member of western civilization, of American culture, of the most affluent society the world has ever known? The most educated, the most sophisticated, the most resourceful, technically and scientifically most advanced? What does one do in a society like this when one is called to follow Jesus? What does one do when one is confronted by Jesus and contradicted by Jesus, when that contradiction and confrontation run against the grain of everything that is American value, that is western value, that is Christian value. The moment there is a nation, it becomes institutional. The moment there’s a church, it becomes institutional. The moment there is any kind of structuring in society, we get institutionalization and as soon as there is institutionalization we all have our vested interests and in maintaining the status quo. It’s true of our government. And we ought not be too hard on our leaders. They are people just like us. And what are they trying to do? They’re trying to do the same thing that Herod was trying to do. In the Pentagon and the Reagan Administration: messing around with Iran and Iraq, meddling around in South America, fiddling around in South Africa – what are we trying to do? We are trying to maintain the balance of power; we are trying to preserve the edge of power; we are trying to preserve the place of preeminence. And after all, isn’t that why we elect our officials: in order to keep the American way of life, in order to keep the economy booming, in order to keep the military strong enough so that we’ll be invulnerable to attack? What do we expect of our leaders if not that? Do we not charge our President with the necessity of enforcing the Constitution? © Grand Valley State University �How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Richard A. Rhem Page 6   And it’s not only in the state; it’s in the church as well. As soon as the church becomes an institution, then we are more concerned about the perpetuation and the preservation of the institution than we are the questions of truth or obedience. And that comes right down to the local level and comes right down to the local congregation and it comes right down to Christ Community Church. And do we make our response in terms of what is a responsible obedience to following Jesus or do we make our decision in terms of what is good and enhancing for the institution? And it comes, of course, right down into our personal lives. Not so much what we believe, but the extent to which our belief alters the way we live. There is a structure of belief which we all have and profess and then there is an operational level of belief – that upon which we function. And we function most of the time in terms of self-interest, in terms of vested interest. In terms of our own wellbeing and our own welfare. And that’s human and that’s natural, but every once in a while we need to step back and say, Jesus: sign of contradiction. Jesus: sign spoken against. Jesus, what does it mean to follow you today in America in 1987, in Grand Haven in Spring Lake, in comfortable western Michigan, where nature smiles for seven miles. What does it mean, Jesus, what difference does it make because I belong to you? In all of my relationships, all of my business, all of my pleasure, light has dawned upon the world. How do we respond to the fact that Light has dawned? The world is not done with Jesus. More has been written in the last 20 years than in the previous 2000. Jesus is still very much living Lord and he proclaimed a kingdom and has a salvation to bring to earth’s fartherest bounds. The church is not to be some little backwater ghetto. It is not simply to be a cozy little community of people who are weak and who still need God in order to get by. The church is that revolutionary group gathered around that revolutionary person whose radicality in the midst of human society got him crucified. Tomorrow Martin Luther King’s birthday was celebrated. I repent that while he was leading the civil rights movement, I did not pray for him. I think I was rather irritated by him. When he spoke out against the VietnamWar, when it was unpatriotic to do so, I’m sorry I was not prophetic enough to understand and to lend my voice. And when I read his sermons and speeches I know that they were inspired by Jesus, who was always against the oppressor and always to set the oppressed free. Last year the Catholic bishops came out with a paper on nuclear disarmament. You may agree or you may disagree with their conclusions, if you follow Jesus, you can not question that church leaders – all Christians – have an imperative to address themselves to an issue which has brought the whole human race, for which God intends salvation, into jeopardy. This year the bishops come out with a paper on economic policy. You may think they’re wild; you may think they’re in left field; you may question their conclusions, but you may not question that the church of Jesus Christ and those who lead in Jesus’ name have a right and a responsibility to address the economy in order to ensure that there is some measure of justice in this world. Jesus was revolutionary – not in terms of the zealots who wanted © Grand Valley State University �How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns on You? Richard A. Rhem Page 7   simply to throw off the Roman yoke, and who would have come in with their own regime which would have been just as oppressive – but Jesus was revolutionary in that he stood against everything that seems to drive the human spirit. Jesus was the one who said if you want to live then you must die. Jesus was the one who said love your enemies, pray for your enemies, pray for those who despitefully use you. Funny man, funny man! Strange person! He is like a knot that will not be dissolved in the middle of the human family. And those who follow him may not be simply a comfortable community who use God for their own tranquility. Those who follow Jesus are called to be a community of people who are as radical and as revolutionary, who can never adopt any political platform, who can never be at ease with any creed or confession, who can never give absolute loyalty to any state or to any church because they are a people who will give ultimate allegiance to God alone, following Jesus. No matter what the price. Can you remember the last time in the presence of Jesus you ever changed your mind? Has a prejudice ever melted away? Has an opinion ever been altered? Has a conviction ever been changed because you held it up in the light of his face and felt judged and repented and experienced the liberation, the freedom that is the consequence of the Truth? I’m afraid for most of us our religion is a cultural matter. For most of us God is one to be used and religion is for comfort. I have a book on my desk that says, Jesus: Inspiring and Disturbing Presence. Oh, inspiring to be sure, inspiring to be sure – and disturbing. Because to follow him, to be faced with a decision and to ask what would Jesus do, is a very radical thing to do. I don’t do it very well. I repent and pray that I may follow him. Let us pray. Lord Jesus you said you came into the world not to condemn the world but that the world through you might be saved. Then the gospel record goes on to say that this is the condemnation: that light has come into the world and men love darkness rather than light. God forgive us. And enable us by your grace to rise up and follow the light where ever it may lead, following in the master’s steps, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we pray. Amen. © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Epiphany II Scripture Text Isaiah 49:6, Luke 2:32, 34-35 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19870118 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-01-18 Title A name given to the resource How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns On You? Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on January 18, 1987 entitled "How Do You Respond When Truth Dawns On You?", on the occasion of Epiphany II, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Isaiah 49:6, Luke 2:32, 34-35. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Epiphany Followers of Jesus Light Radical Truth of Jesus Revelation Servant of the Lord Universal Grace https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d9a026c138b82cb0b23a7397cb7edd1d.jpg ae8a7d32c2f12df056f0e565f7bffdde Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Regional Historical Collection. F479 .T42 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0170 Title A name given to the resource How George Rogers Clark Won the Northwest and Other Essays in Western History Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hazenplug, Frank (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of How George Rogers Clark Won the Northwest and Other Essays in Western History, by Reuben Gold Thwaites, published by A.C. McClurg & Co., 1904. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1904 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b743c5dbc8520b13e2cac442eaa8f59.pdf 323e90fda4d9f9ebfa798ddea0f041c6 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Sexuality and Gender Flyers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Rainbow Resource Center Women and Gender Studies Department Women's Commission Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity Description An account of the resource Digitized posters, flyers, event notices, and other materials relating to gender expression and sexuality at Grand Valley State University, with materials spanning from 1974 to 2019. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1974/2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digitized from collections at the Rainbow Resource Center (formerly the Milton E. Ford LGBT Resource Center), Women and Gender Studies Department, Women's Commission, and Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Gender identity Gender expression Sexual orientation Women's studies Queer theory Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09_SGF_LGBTQ_2015_World-AIDS-Day.pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-12-01 Title A name given to the resource How to (Survive) End a Plague Description An account of the resource Poster with a synopsis on the topic, as well as the information of the event, including the date, time and place. Subject The topic of the resource Sexual minorities Community centers World AIDS day AIDS (Disease)--United States--Prevention Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Rainbow Resource Center Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Rainbow Resource Center https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb2685cf74a33a81e19017bb9798742c.pdf bc05edb429957620a7884f6c37759b53 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Howard Alan Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 8/22/2012 Biography and Description Howard Alan is an architect who specializes in organic architecture, passive and active solar and alternative energy conservation. He grew up in Chicago and first learned architecture in high school before going on to attend the School of Architecture at the University of Southern California. In 1969, Mr. Alan invited and brought the world renowned architect, Buckminster Fuller, to the People’s Church to meet with Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez and the Young Lords. The Young Lords and the Poor People’s Coalition of Lincoln Park (which Mr. Jiménez was also their president) hired Mr. Alan to draw up plans for a multi-unit, affordable housing complex, as a concrete cooperative alternative to Daley’s Master Plan; a plan which was displacing Latinos and the poor from across Chicago’s near-downtown and lakefront neighborhoods. Mr. Alan’s plans were supported by and presented to a broad group of businesses and community organizations, including the former head of the Department of Urban Renewal, Mr. Ira Bach. However, in a packed and tumultuous housing committee meeting of the City Council, Mr. Alan’s plans were rejected. In this oral history interview, Mr. Alan reflects on the Young Lord’s and Mr. Jiménez’s commitment to the poor and why this was such a controversial stance.Today, Mr. Alan’s office remains in Lincoln Park, on Armitage Avenue. His award-winning, innovative, and sustainable designs can be seen all over Chicago and beyond. He regularly gives talks around the country on topics related to sustainable and organic architecture. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Howard, if you can give me your name -- full name -- and then give me date of birth and where you were born. HOWARD ALAN: All right. My name is Howard Alan. I was born in the city of Chicago on the South Side. JJ: Which part of the South Side? HA: I’m not sure I know what it’s called, but -- JJ: Which streets? HA: Somewhere around Carpenter Street and maybe 6300 South. JJ: 6300 South. HA: Yeah, my grandfather owned a two-level [frame?] building, and the earliest I can remember is that’s where I was born and lived until I was close to five. JJ: [00:01:00] Okay, [now, I was walkin’ around?]. So, you were born here in Chicago. HA: I am born in Chicago. JJ: And you said what year again? I’m sorry. HA: I didn’t. JJ: I was walkin’ around. HA: I am born in Chicago in the year 1931. JJ: ’31? Okay. HA: July 7 is my lucky birthday. JJ: And you’ve never left Chicago. 1 �HA: Oh, that’s not true. JJ: That’s not true? Okay. HA: I stayed in Chicago until I graduated high school and went to Los Angeles. JJ: And so, you went to which grammar school? HA: In Chicago, I went to several grammar schools, but the one that I spent the most time was Kozminski on the South Side, 5400 South Ingleside. JJ: Okay. That’s -- HA: And I -- JJ: That’s the East Side, isn’t it? HA: Hmm? JJ: That’s the East. Ingleside? Or is that West? HA: It’s East. JJ: [00:02:00] East, okay. HA: It was a good school, and, when I graduated -- that’s grammar school. JJ: Was it Hyde Park, or --? HA: I went to Hyde Park -- JJ: Okay, [that was?] Hyde Park High School. HA: -- after that. Hyde Park High School, where I was fortunate to have three years of high school architecture classes, and, by the time I was 15, I’d already determined that’s what I wanted to be. I never had another thought about where I was going. JJ: I mean, what brought you to that thinking? Were you parents involved with that, or...? 2 �HA: Well, no. My parents were not involved, except that my mother -- JJ: Your mother’s name is what? HA: Her name is [Betty Banks?]. That was her maiden name, and [00:03:00] her married name -- well, she had several marriages, so we can skip that. JJ: Okay. Your father’s name? HA: My father’s name is [Murray?]. He was born [Morris?], and his last name is [Spiegel?]. But my folks were divorced when I was 10. JJ: Ten, okay. HA: Some people say 12, but I think 10. So -- JJ: Any brothers or sisters? HA: I’m an only child. JJ: Okay. Now, they grew up also in Chicago, your parents, or no? HA: No. My father is Canadian, came to the United States during the Depression or a little bit before the Depression. I think he was about 16 when he came, and he came to make his way [00:04:00] with his older brother. And -- JJ: And your mom? HA: My mother came with six others from Poland. She came from probably a Polish shtetl, if you know what a shtetl is. JJ: No. Can you explain what that is? HA: It’s an area in Poland, which had a whole flock of rules against the Jews, and they had their own area called a shtetl, which was mixed with buildings to live in, and shops, and stores, and they had their own legal system as well. And so, I’m told that my mother came from a shtetl and from a farm, but my grandfather 3 �[00:05:00] came first, and he came to the South Side, and he was -- he made shoes, and he set himself up until he had enough of a environment and a steady bit of work, and then he brought all his kids over. Seven kids, all together. JJ: And so, they came around what years, did they [move?]? HA: Oh, gee. JJ: This was way before you were born, or...? HA: Way before I was born. JJ: Early 1900s or something like that? HA: No, I’m sure it was after 1900, but they were -- I know my -- I think they were here some time -- I don’t know the dates. JJ: Okay. No, [that’s fine?]. HA: I really don’t know the dates. JJ: [Just a idea?]. HA: As far as I was concerned, I needed something to [00:06:00] give me a direction, and, when it was architecture, that was what I wanted. I was always making things in between playing baseball, and football, and all that stuff you did on the South Side. But it was the doing which I loved the most. So, I -- JJ: Were your friends, any friends in school, into architecture, or no? HA: None of my early friends would -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: -- dream of going into architecture. No, no. They were -- JJ: (inaudible)? HA: Hmm? 4 �JJ: I mean -- HA: Was there a group of people that I was involved in? What do you mean? JJ: Right? Why would, all of a sudden, you think about architecture? You know, people think about baseball or -- like, you did play baseball and football. HA: I played lots of sports. JJ: Lots of sports. HA: I was very -- I climbed every tree in Washington Park, [00:07:00] and, sure, I did do those things, but there was something about me that recognized that there was more in life, and it had to do with the fact that I could do things myself. I could build things. I could -- JJ: What sort of things were you building? HA: Oh, I had an Erector Set, and I threw away the plans, and I made what I wanted to make with it, and that kind of thing. JJ: [What kind of set?]? HA: An Erector Set. Erector Set was very popular in the late ’30s. JJ: Okay. What is that? HA: It was a box of beams, and columns, and screws, and things you wound up, and I was forever making things with it. JJ: Okay. I got you. I got you. HA: And then, [00:08:00] Frank Lloyd Wright’s son, who was responsible for the Lincoln Logs that were sold at -- JJ: Those I remember. HA: -- Marshall Field’s. 5 �JJ: Right, those I remember. HA: I played a lot with that, but I played with everything. I made model airplanes. You know, I learned how to whistle. I did all kinds of things back then. And, when I graduated from -- JJ: So, then, you went to Hyde Park High School? HA: Yes, I went to Hyde Park High School and was really fortunate to have -- JJ: Was that a mixed school at that time, or --? HA: Mixed? JJ: Yeah. (overlapping dialogue). HA: Human beings and doggies? JJ: Well, [human beings?]. I mean in terms of ethnic -- HA: Ethnic? I think there were probably three Blacks in the school at the time. I’m not certain -- JJ: Can you --? HA: -- but I think that’s -- there were very few -- most everybody was light-colored. [00:09:00] But the teacher I had was wonderful. He came just when I was entering the school, and, after the first semester, I got him as a teacher in the architecture class -- JJ: What’s his name? [Do you?] remember? HA: His name is [Napieralski?], and he was a graduate of the architecture department at University of Illinois in Champaign, and, of course, it was the Depression when he graduated, and there was no work, so he became a teacher. But, before him, there was another teacher who turned out to be kind of an alcoholic and would 6 �go down into the boiler room and drink with the building [00:10:00] superintendent or building fixer-upper. And he was teaching architecture with shades and shadows on Roman and Greek facades. But, when I took the first class of Napieralski, he didn’t do that. He gave us buildings to design, and render, and make kindergarten working drawings out of, and -- so, for three years, we did that. There were four of us that were really focused on it and felt serious about it. JJ: And this was at the university? HA: No, no. JJ: [No, it was at the high school?]. HA: This is at Hyde Park High School. JJ: High school, okay. HA: We were making our drawings, and we [00:11:00] were holding things out of the window to make blueprints because the sun would work on the chemicals and would produce a blue print, which was white on blue. JJ: So, who were the designers that you were studying at that time? The architectural designers. HA: Well, the only people I knew of were Frank Lloyd Wright, and I don’t think I even knew of Sullivan or Adler from those days. But, when I left Chicago, I went to Los Angeles, and I went thinking that, somehow or other, my father would help me get through college, but he didn’t. He couldn’t. So, I went to work for architects. JJ: So, where did you live in Los Angeles? Where were you living there? 7 �HA: What happened was [00:12:00] I got my first job with an architect two blocks away from where I was living, and I did shop drawings for all the metal in the twostory building, and they couldn’t believe I could do it, but this was all extremely simple to me. JJ: What part of Los Angeles? What part? HA: It was in the Leimert Park area. JJ: Leimert Park. Okay. HA: Which is now all Black now and has been Black for 50 years or so. JJ: So, you said you were doing some drawings. HA: I would do construction drawings that would be the shop drawings of detailing every steel item in the building, which would then -- you had to do each one and make it clear. That was my first job. JJ: And that was given to the [00:13:00] contractor, or...? HA: Yes, that was given to the contractor to construct the building or to bid the costs. And so, I worked for that guy, whose name was H.W. Underhill. JJ: Okay. So, the contractor w-- how long did you work in there? HA: Oh, probably not more than four months because he gave me another job, and I designed it, and they got a price for it, and he was outraged at how much it was costing, so I wasn’t there anymore. JJ: Okay. So, it was too costly or something? HA: Well, yeah. JJ: The other bids were going through, though, right? With the contractors? HA: Yes, sure. 8 �JJ: So, you had a lot of -- HA: I didn’t design the building. I just took the metal parts out and individually made them clear so that people knew, you know, where the [holes?] were going, how long the pieces were, what [00:14:00] type pieces they were. Yeah. JJ: But those were being used by contractors. HA: Of course. JJ: Okay. HA: Yes. JJ: And there were many of those. HA: Yes, there were many. There were [heaps?] of it. JJ: Okay. All right. But then, you got the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: Then, they asked me to do some kind of a small design of a house. And so, I did it, and it turned out to be too expensive, and we parted ways. That’s all. But what actually happened was I began to get very -- even more serious. I found an apartment. Oh, I went through a whole series of strange things. I joined a fraternity because I didn’t know anybody there. And then, I found out about the fraternity, and I got fed up with it. And so, I did not last in that fraternity. It was too much baloney. [00:15:00] To me, it was baloney, but, you know, it was social, and it was -- this is the way you make friends, and this is your business friends, and so on. I was interested in being a creative person and working, and it just -- that’s how it all started. So -- JJ: What year was this? HA: That was 1950. 9 �JJ: 1950, okay. HA: And so, I began reading, and I began reading a great deal. JJ: What were you reading? HA: Well, one book I read was Kindergarten Chats by Louis Henry Sullivan, which was something that I was extremely influenced by back then. JJ: What was that about, [00:16:00] Kindergarten Chats? HA: That was about architecture, and honesty, and what organic architecture meant. Those are things which I was interested in. JJ: What is organic architecture? What is that? I mean, (inaudible). HA: Well, it’s very difficult to kind of define it, but what it really means is that it is a whole design. It’s not just an image that you’re gonna build. It’s the design, what it’s made out of, and the wholeness of it. That’s my way of speaking about it. It can be called a design where you don’t do anything that doesn’t belong in your thinking when you begin to design it, and [00:17:00] it takes -- it considers every aspect of it. Where the building is, who’s gonna be in it, what the materials ought to be, what kind of environment, which then relates to how the environment informs and supports the people in it. It’s alive. It’s a nice way of saying it, that we’re building buildings that are alive. The new word these days is biophilic, and we’ve discovered, suddenly, as if we didn’t know it already, that buildings that include nature and the organic aspect of it speaks to nature, speaks of nature. We are connected to nature, and I didn’t realize all [00:18:00] of that when I first started reading, but it seemed to be important to me. So, I got myself in the 10 �University of Southern California while I was working part-time and, in summers, full-time, and I, for some unknown connection, met wonderful architects. JJ: Who were some of them? HA: Well, the first one that I -- the only architect I could actually take my work, the work that I did at USC -- I went right through the third-year design, and I was having trouble because I was naive, I suppose, and I was under the impression that I could design the way I wanted to design in school because you weren’t hurting anybody. And so, I would take the classes in the first semester [00:19:00] of third year and answer the requirements without having a concern. The architect that I knew that I was extremely influenced by was a man named John Lautner, and Lautner was in the first fellowship of Frank Lloyd Wright’s back in the ’30s, when he and Olgivanna opened up their fellowship. So, Lautner was there, amongst a number of other people who are now -- who are actually well known. I have books from those people as well, but Lautner was the only person who would sit with me and talk to me about the work that I did, [00:20:00] and I would march up just above Hollywood Boulevard to where he was working out of his garage, and he would take the time to talk, and it was very important to me because I couldn’t get a response from my third-year professor because he was a nutcase as far as I was concerned. And a lot of that happened after the Second World War, and people who were in it and found themselves teaching instead of doing were not very open. They took the academic approach, which was you have to do this in my class. So, I didn’t know that. What it was was -[00:21:00] I discovered that I didn’t do what I was supposed to do. And so, he 11 �wouldn’t grade my work, which frustrated me no end after I looked at the sheets posted on the board for the grade I got ’cause I worked my tail of doin’ that stuff. And then, I went up to the teacher, and I don’t know why this is important, but -JJ: (inaudible). HA: I said, “What’s going on? Why don’t I have a grade?” And he said, “Well, you didn’t do the final drawings,” and I said, “Yes, I did.” And he said, “All right.” I’ll go back to his office, and we opened up the boards that -- I had three boards, which separated all the sketches, and then the final drawings were between the last two boards. And we opened it up, and there they were, and he said, “Oh, I didn’t see those.” Bullshit. Anyway, [00:22:00] he said, “You can go on to the next semester.” That is the second half of the third year. “And, if you do what we want you to do, well, you can go on to the fourth year.” There were two of us like that, and I was a good friend -- we were both friends too. Well, I got very... JJ: Frustrated? HA: No, I got angry. I got very angry, and I said -- you know, and I kept growing in this other organic attitude, and I said, “I’m gonna explore that.” I’m not going to do just -- supposed to be architecture like they wanted it. I’m gonna look for things that make good sense to me, and I’m not hurting a soul. I’m [00:23:00] just finding out -- I thought that’s what school was about. Well, I did that for the second semester, and he told me at that time, “I’m going to give you an N.” Of course, there was no such grade as an N. And so, it meant not evaluable. And I turned in all my work, and I quit. It was bad because I had -- JJ: This was your third year? 12 �HA: Yeah. At the end of the third year, and I had -- I didn’t have -- what’s the word? I don’t know what the word is. The word is -- I had a way not to have to go into the service because of the war, the Korean War, but I [00:24:00] decided I would go to work for Lautner, and I wanted to work in the field and work with my hands too, as well as my imagination and sensibility. JJ: So, you started working with him at that time? HA: No. I went up there, and I met two people, and one was -- well, one was a student in the fellowship, Wright’s fellowship, and he was working with Lautner, and the other one was Herb Greene, who did the most wonderful drawings. He is really a talented guy. JJ: Now, you mentioned fellowship. You mean the group that -- HA: The fellowship was Wright’s group. JJ: [Wright’s group?]. HA: Frank Lloyd Wright’s group was considered a fellowship and was a [00:25:00] draw right through the war, the second war, and a lot of his people had to go in the Army or went into the service. JJ: Now, I did hear his name, but I don’t know that much about architecture. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: Yes, Frank Lloyd Wright is extremely well known. There’s a postage stamp with him. JJ: [I see. I’m sorry?]. HA: While he was alive, he was a very independent, creative architect who did things that nobody ever saw before, in Oak Park, actually, at the beginning, in 1906 or 13 �’04 [and ’06?] and beyond. He built his own studio and house and carried on in his way, and he built [00:26:00] many buildings in Oak Park, all of which were much different than the usual stuff, and I -JJ: Oak Park, Illinois? HA: Huh? JJ: Oak Park, Illinois? HA: Uh-huh. JJ: Okay. HA: Yeah. He’s actually from Wisconsin. He was born in Wisconsin. He had a couple of years of school at [then Madison?], mostly engineering, I think, and -but he was determined. His mother had put pictures of Gothic cathedrals around his room when he was born to be an architect. JJ: So, now you’re in the fellowship with -- HA: Hmm? JJ: You’re at the fellowship with him? HA: I was never at the fellowship with him. I did not go to the fellowship -- JJ: But these other people were part of the fellowship? HA: -- because everybody usually -- he wasn’t an easy guy to get to -- [00:27:00] he wasn’t -- there were only a few people who got out of that fellowship that really had their own ideas, and one of them was Lautner because Lautner had helped his dad and his mom build a house in Michigan. Yeah, in Michigan. And he was used to the understanding of how to build things, and he invented for the rest of his life. Really for the rest of his life. Well, what happened to me after I left USC 14 �and when I met Alvin Wiehle -- he told me that he was going up to San Francisco, and he and a friend of his -- also a Frank Lloyd Wright fellowship member -- [00:28:00] were going to build a wooden spiral house in Mill Valley, California. He said, “Why don’t you come up and help us build it?” And I thought, shucks, that’s what I’m looking for. So, I -JJ: Spiral in the middle of it, or...? HA: No, a spiral house. A house where the walls went around like this. JJ: Oh, okay. Okay. HA: And so, that really excited me, so I sold what little I had, and I got out of my little, one-room apartment with a kitchen and a bathroom -- a kitchen in a closet -- and it was -- I went. And, in some way -- I can’t remember the other guy’s name. He had access to a house on the highest foothill in [00:29:00] Mount Tamalpais, just above one of the small areas there. No, I can’t remember. I know the name of that area like the back of my hand. I can’t think of it. Well, so, we went up there, and that’s where I stayed. That was at the beginning of the summer of 1952. I stayed up there, and Alvin was up there for one night, and he decided to go down to his friend’s place in Richardson Bay. And so, I had this house. I didn’t know who owned it. It had electricity. I could cook. And then, what happened once we started building that [00:30:00] building and the other guy -- I don’t know why I can’t remember his name. The other guy fell ill. And so, construction stopped, and I went into San Francisco to get a job, and I found Charles Warren Callister, who had a small office in San Francisco, just adjacent to Chinatown. And then, I met him, and I told him what I wanted, and -- oh, I never told you either, before 15 �that, by the time I was 19 and when I was in that fraternity, one of the fraternity friends’ father wanted to build a plumbing supply warehouse and sales office. And so, they asked me if I would make the plans, [00:31:00] and I said, “Certainly.” And so, I made the plans and got him the building permit because you didn’t need to be an architect when the cost of the project was under a certain amount. So, that was my first job, and that building was built, and I would go down there and try to supervise it, this 19-year-old kid trying to supervise it and telling people, “You’re building it wrong.” And they would look at me and say, “That’s the way we do it.” Anyway, I was totally happy that it was built because it gave me a foundation. That all happened before I went off to San Francisco, and -JJ: Now, who was this person in San Francisco? HA: Charles Warren Callister? JJ: Yeah. HA: He was an architect. He was an architect, and [00:32:00] he wasn’t licensed, and he refused to take the exam because he thought it was illegal, and he never did take the exam. I think, by the time he got to be 75, they gave him a license. JJ: Now, [there are a lot of?] construction people that don’t have licenses either. HA: Oh, yeah. Construction people, yes. JJ: Yeah. So, was that common, or --? HA: Yeah, that’s common. JJ: But not the architect? 16 �HA: Yeah, you don’t have to have a license to be a contractor. You have to pay the city or whatever you do, and, to my knowledge, there’s no -- well, there used to be a test. JJ: Well, I think, now, they’re [turning to that?]. HA: Well, everything is getting more and more regulated by, you know, by the city system and by our government. Totally regulated. Regulated to the point where, if you think about something, they’ll put you in jail. JJ: Just for thinking about it. HA: [00:33:00] Bad news. JJ: So, now, you’re going to work with -- HA: So, I went to work for Callister that summer, and I worked for 15 dollars a week. That’s really all I needed. So, I could go and explore, you know, and that’s when I just completely -- that’s when I began my development. I mean, my real development and where nature became much more important to me than anything. Religion had nothing to do with it. It was nature that made sense to me, and I loved it, and I truly loved it. JJ: This was in the ’50s. HA: Mm-hmm. JJ: And -- HA: So, Callister -- I’d let my hair grow. I’d put moccasins on my feet so I could feel the ground as I climbed up to the top of the foothill. I wanted to feel everything, and I wanted to be alive, [00:34:00] and nature was gonna be my source. Well, it came time -- I was three months on that mountain foothill, and I have such 17 �memories of it that will never go away. So, I’d read about Bruce Goff in Life magazine when I was working on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles. JJ: Who’s Bruce Goff? HA: My teacher. JJ: Okay. HA: Well, this is Bruce Goff. This is two of his buildings in here. Anyway -- JJ: [Can you show that to the camera?]? P1: Okay. I don’t know if you can see any of that. JJ: (inaudible). HA: [00:35:00] Bruce was -- JJ: The cover. HA: -- an amazing man. JJ: What kind of magazine is this? HA: This is a Japanese magazine. JJ: Japanese magazine? Okay. HA: And it’s a very difficult -- P2: (inaudible). HA: All right. JJ: So, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: I had known about him, and Callister also knew about him, and he knew more about him than I did, and he said that Bruce teaches architecture with music, and I just -- I had to go. So, I wrote Goff a letter that I sent from the mountain area, and I got a letter back saying -- I asked him if I could come and see the school 18 �and if I really liked it, and I got a letter back saying, “Come ahead.” So, I hitchhiked from California to Oklahoma and [00:36:00] met Goff, walked into the school, which was in a barracks building from the Second World War, the Navy barracks, building 10 miles away from the main campus at the university, which I thought was great. And I walked into the front door and down the long central corridor, and I couldn’t believe what I saw. It was amazing. Kids were doing things there that were never seen. The openness of Goff -- because Goff never went to college, which is unheard of now, but the president of the school interviewed him, and he said, “You’re gonna be the chairman of the architecture school.” Totally amazing. Huh? JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) What were these kids doing? HA: Well, they were doing their own drawings and [00:37:00] following the class requirements, but the class requirements were freer. So, everybody had to take a basic design course, whether they went to another college or not, and there was an area that brought young people who were fed up with the schools they were in, and they went there, so -- I still maintain friendships with people there. Okay. So, then, I spent two years, a year and a half there, and then I had to go in the Army. JJ: Okay. So, you got drafted? HA: I was drafted, even after we wrote letters and Goff wrote a letter saying that this boy would be better off if he didn’t go, and -- but that didn’t work. So, I was in for 20 months. I didn’t go overseas. I begged them to send me to Germany or some [00:38:00] place, but they didn’t. They just kept me here, doing -- (pause) 19 �(inaudible) can’t think of the right word, but we would be traveling from Georgia to Alabama and back again and doing these movements in order to make sure that we would outlast an atomic war. So, then, I got out, and I went back to Oklahoma and finished. I finished in 1958. And then, it was time to decide what was I gonna do after that, and how was I going to start? Well, I had worked for [00:39:00] architects in Los Angeles, and I had amassed a certain amount of credits, annual credits, so I could take my licensing exam in Chicago in 1960. That’s when I was first licensed. JJ: So, you moved to Chicago in -- HA: I came home, and I had in my mind, well, I better go home and find out whether I can do the things I want to do in the area that I was born. To me, that was a requirement. So, I had to come here and see what I could do, and I started building right away. Did all kinds of things. Took another license exam in California. JJ: What do you mean, you started building? HA: I literally started building things. I remember doing a church for a Black group on Ogden Avenue, that church in a movie theater. JJ: Now, you did the [00:40:00] design, but when you say building, were you --? HA: No, I was contracting. I was -- JJ: Oh, you were contracting. HA: I was designing and contracting. JJ: And contracting also. HA: And I did that for -- 20 �JJ: You did a church. What else did you do? HA: That was a Black church, and I designed their -- where the chorus would be, which is -- in the movie theater, it was where the screen would be. And I did an addition to a house, [my first project?], an addition to a house in Evanston. Evanston? I think so. And my client was very happy with what we did, and I had fun doing it, so -- I wasn’t licensed at the time I did that, I don’t think. [00:41:00] Anyway, so, then, it came to, well, what do I do? And I got myself involved in being a part of the design team for the Fermilab?. JJ: Family Lab? HA: Fermilab. JJ: Fermi? HA: Yeah. The big organization that was shooting particles at smaller particles and busting then up so they could discover what is the source of our world. It was the largest of the proton accelerators until recently, until five years, six years ago. Now, there’s one in Europe. JJ: So, you were doing projects for them? HA: I was involved in the design team for the central laboratory building, [00:42:00] and we were maybe six of us, five or six of us at the time, and this was a major group of people. Two architects, one from New York, one from LA, a construction company from Texas, mechanical engineers, and we were having a lot of trouble answering the main physicist’s requirements. So, I took the thing, and I designed something, and I thought that it was responsive to their building program. And so, the first design for the central laboratory building was mine, 21 �and I made presentations to the Atomic Energy Commission during the [00:43:00] presentation time and this whole thing, but I couldn’t get the rest of the -- I couldn’t get the engineers to back the method I was using, which is something that’s been used thousands of times now. And, you know, you think that you are the only one who has designed whatever it is that you are designing, but you recognize much later in life that these things are here right now, and you are just tuned into them. You are tuned into that just as you’re tuned into other people and tuned into nature, and how nature grows, and all the diversity, which is really important, which we keep crunching because we don’t understand, and that always -- you know, that’s in the front of my mind all the [00:44:00] time. Well, subsequently, there were 35 other designs for the central laboratory building. I left about a year and a half after I started. So -JJ: Okay, so you said, subsequently, there were some other designs, but you were still working there for a year and a half, doing these designs. HA: Yes. That was how I was earning a living. For a year and a half, I was in that group. I got a wonderful letter afterwards actually mentioning the design (audio cuts out; inaudible) from Wilson, who was the man who was responsible for having that accelerator built. [He was?] really an amazing guy. Fancied himself a sculptor and was not your usual [00:45:00] scientist. He was far more than that. And I would go to dinner with those people, and I’d draw in the things I was interested in and share what I thought I could share with them and felt comfortable. But then, you know, I’m not a wealthy man. I mean, I wasn’t a wealthy kid. I didn’t come from wealth, although my father’s family had money 22 �until they lost it, which is what caused my father to come to America and try to get it all back. JJ: What do you mean? How did they lose it? HA: Huh? JJ: How did they lose it? HA: Well, my grandfather made the money with his -- he made clothes in New York after my father’s side of the family came from Austria. [00:46:00] I don’t know much about the grandfather. I met him only a few times, and I don’t want to get too deep into that story, but he made his money, and, from what I’m told by a cousin I had, he went to Canada, which is where my father was born, and invested, you know. They were well off, and they -- but he invested, and there was a recession, and he lost a lot of his investment, and my grandmother owned and was responsible for a business which brought people [00:47:00] in, and they could live there and have room and board, and she took care of cousins of mine, and she was really strong. She was certainly one of the people that I recognize my father really loved, but he wasn’t very happy with his own father. Well, you know, I got born, and my folks were divorced when I was 10, and we didn’t hear from him for two years. And then, suddenly, we began getting checks because he got drafted into the Second War, and we got Army checks. [That was a big?] -- that’s a long time ago now. That’s [00:48:00] back in the ’40s, early ’40s. So, after the Fermilab and after I got my license, I set about -- JJ: Contractor or architectural? HA: Huh? 23 �JJ: Contractor or architectural license? HA: My architecture license. There is no contractor license. JJ: Okay. [There wasn’t?]. I only mention that because I was told in Michigan to try to get a license for contracting, which would have been a mistake if I did. HA: Yeah, I think so. I don’t think there -- they may have something, you know, that they can test you with, but I don’t know what it is. It certainly wasn’t around when I was a kid or when I was doing that stuff. JJ: I don’t think I would [00:49:00] [do good?] building houses. HA: So, I got married, and both families were there in this big, fancy wedding that was paid for by my wife’s father, and it was a woman I loved, but she had a nervous -she had a -- JJ: What’s her name? HA: Hmm? JJ: What’s her name? HA: Her name was Linda. JJ: Linda. Okay. HA: Linda Goffen was her maiden name. Alan was her married name. And, after about 17 months, she had a nervous breakdown and went to the hospital, and it never -- so, we got [00:50:00] a divorce, and I have a relative who was a lawyer and helped me through all that. There are no children or -- it was really -- I was very surprised, and it was kind of a shock, but she just couldn’t be -- at that time, she went back to school, got her music degree, and went to Los Angeles, and we’d see each other periodically, and she died when she was 50 of uterus cancer 24 �or one of those cancers. I sat with her when she was in the hospital on her painreducing drugs. It was kinda sad. [00:51:00] And so, a couple of years later, I got married again, and that’s when I had my first two children. JJ: What are their names, and what’s your wife’s name? HA: My second wife’s name was Jean, and my daughter’s name is Jessica, first daughter, and second daughter is [Ruthie?], and they are both kinda named after, I think -- Ruth was named after my grandmother. No, my -- yeah, my grandmother. You know, I had already made a place to live [00:52:00] with my first wife. And so, I did all the carpentry in the house and fixed it up to some, you know, decent degree. Had fun doin’ it. And -- JJ: What neighborhood was it in? HA: It was Old Town. JJ: Oh, in Old Town. Okay. HA: It was just west of Sedgwick. It’s kind of an alley there, which has its own name, but that’s where the building was or is. Subsequently, I’ve done projects like it not far from there. Anyway -- JJ: And you built the whole building? I mean, [was it an old?] house, or --? HA: No, it was in a two-flat [00:53:00] frame building facing that street. I don’t remember the name of the street. At least I got Sedgwick right. JJ: (inaudible). HA: And I continued working. I got projects, and I would work up in the attic of that building, doing construction drawings and whatever was necessary for clients. JJ: We’re talking about ’60s now, or...? 25 �HA: We are talking about -- JJ: Just trying to get a timeline. Early ’60s? Late ’60s? HA: Middle ’60s -- JJ: Middle ’60s, okay. HA: -- because I had came here and bought this property in 1969, late 1969. JJ: [00:54:00] Okay, so you came in 196-- HA: Well, actually, I bought it in early 1970. JJ: Okay. From Old Town, you came here, so -- HA: Hmm? JJ: From Old Town, you came here. HA: Yes, that’s right. JJ: Which is right across from -- HA: The church. JJ: The People’s Church, yeah. (inaudible) church. HA: Yeah, well, it wasn’t -- JJ: [Which we call?] (inaudible). HA: -- People’s Church when I came. That started shortly after -- maybe it was that summer, when we heard of the death of the reverend. JJ: Reverend Bruce Johnson and Eugenia -- HA: Yeah. JJ: -- Johnson, his wife. HA: And it’s also when -- boy, I have a terrible problem. It was a kid from IIT. He was in the architecture school, came to my -- I had my office in the front [00:55:00] 26 �store for quite a long time, and he came in that store to ask me if I was interested in getting involved with housing for a group called the Young Lords, and I said, “Sure.” And that’s how it all started. So, I went with the group, which you headed, to sit in -- I think it was the second sit-in for the McCormick Theological Seminary. JJ: No, the first. It was the only one. HA: The first. Okay. JJ: It was the only one, yeah. HA: So, I went with you, and all the people involved, and their children to sit in and not want to move until some decision was made by -- JJ: So, you were in McCormick Seminary? HA: Yes. JJ: During the takeover? HA: That’s right. JJ: Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, I don’t remember everybody. I know that [00:56:00] it was around that time that we met, yeah. HA: Yes. I was there, and I, you know, got -- we left after you got some response from the board -- JJ: Did you stay overnight there, or did you --? HA: No, I didn’t stay overnight. JJ: [You would come over?] -- ’cause a lot of people came home and then came back the next day. 27 �HA: No. I didn’t go back the next day. I thought, at that night, we had found out that they -- or maybe they just said they were gonna think about it that night, but I thought. JJ: Oh, it was Sunday. You probably went there on the Sunday. That’s when we concluded the takeover. HA: They were going to then come up with a -- on the basis of the fact that their place was here and they ought to contribute to the community. JJ: Okay. So, that -- HA: And they apparently came up with some money, which -- JJ: So, you went inside the -- if you can describe how -- what did you see? HA: I sat with everyone at a [00:57:00] very -- JJ: [And what did it look like?]? HA: -- large table, and sat in the room, and listened to everybody talk. JJ: So, everybody was just discussing different things, or...? HA: Well, they were discussing the needs of the people who were there, you and the others, and I realized that this was all happening because they had a sense that, if they didn’t do something, they were gonna be heaved out of the neighborhood. I understood that. So, when there was a -- JJ: And who was this student, again, that went to you from ITT, or do you remember --? HA: I know his name. I know his name. Gee. JJ: If you think of it [00:58:00] later, it’s fine. But, anyway, a student approached you. 28 �HA: Yes, a student came, and approached me, and asked me if I’d be interested in working out housing on some urban renewal sites. JJ: Okay. For the Young Lords at the time. HA: Yes. Well, the Young Lords grew to -- the whole thing grew to a bigger -- [the three churches?], the -- JJ: Okay. Okay, so it was a bigger coalition -- HA: Yes. JJ: -- of people. HA: Yeah, calling themselves the Poor People’s Coalition [Development Corporation?]. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). Okay, the -- HA: No, Poor People’s Development -- JJ: Corporation. That’s what it was called. Okay. HA: Yeah. JJ: All right. HA: Bad choice. JJ: [Thank you?]. It was a bad choice? HA: Yes, it was a bad choice. JJ: Why was it a bad choice? HA: ’Cause the rest of the population here, when they see the word “poor,” they will have nothin’ to do with it. [00:59:00] They don’t want to be poor. They all came here and bought property for the first time in their lives and came from Europe 29 �and all kinds of other places, and the word “poor” was not healthy. Not a good choice. JJ: So, it was [not a great choice?]. HA: No, it was honest, but -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: It was honest, but it wasn’t right. JJ: Okay. So, [it isn’t you’re saying it’s dishonest. It was?] -- HA: And then, we -- JJ: But we could have did better in marketing. [That’s what you say?]. HA: Yes. You should have marketed yourself as brilliant. So, what else is going on here? JJ: So, you went there, and you designed -- can you describe the design that you made, or...? HA: Well, what I did was -- JJ: Did you do that right away? Did you design it --? HA: No, I certainly did not know it right away. I found out about the property. I found out about what had to be presented to the [01:00:00] Urban Renewal Board for acceptance, and the city had appointed -- it’s another name I can’t remember. JJ: Well, there was a guy named Ira Bach. HA: Ira Bach. Oh, my God. I couldn’t remember his name. Geez Louise. Give me a piece of paper. (inaudible). I knew of him before I even came to Chicago. He was a friend of -- (break in audio) 30 �HA: -- from Callister because Bach was at the University of Texas, where Callister was a student, and I’d heard of Ira Bach as a planner, as a city planner, and he was Mayor Daley’s planner. So, he -- JJ: Wasn’t he the head of [01:01:00] the Department of Urban Renewal for a while, or the planner? That’s what you’re saying? HA: I think he was only with the city. JJ: Oh, with the city. HA: I don’t think he was ever a member of the urban renewal organization. That was Lou Hill was the -- JJ: Was the director, yeah. HA: Was the director. JJ: So, did he work -- Ira Bach would work under Lou Hill, or -- is that how that worked, or (inaudible)? HA: I don’t know. Maybe side-by-side. JJ: Side-by-side. HA: Separate organizations. So, he was the one who would oversee the drawings we made and made sure that we had taken care of all the things that were required because this whole urban renewal thing was federal. And we submitted everything, and we went through all the presentations to the neighborhood associations. I think there was a [01:02:00] couple of years of that, and -- JJ: A couple of years of going through (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? 31 �HA: A couple of years of making -- well, maybe it was only one year of making presentations to the neighborhood associations and to the umbrella group, the Lincoln Park Conservation -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: -- Association, LPCA, and then to the CCC group. JJ: Community Conservation Council. HA: Yes. Community Conservation Council, which was supposed to have people on it that represented all the different groups that lived in the neighborhood, lived in this community. I hesitate to call it a community ’cause it almost never was a community, and we continue to make sure that it doesn’t happen because politicians and the economy are only happy to separate. JJ: So, how was Ira Bach in terms of the [01:03:00] plan? Was he against it, or --? HA: No. Well, he wasn’t either -- he didn’t come out and say he was for or against it. What happened is that I would -- living here and would oversee or look at the community of very diverse people, and we had -- this building over here, we had an Italian group that had been there for three generations. And then, we had a Mexican grocery store, and the woman there really took care of the street as well, and took care of the kids in the neighborhood, and was very active across the street from the church that you finally occupied. And I realized that people were -- JJ: [At New Methodist Church?], yeah. HA: Yeah. Yeah. [01:04:00] I realized that people were helping each other, and that whole social world seemed to make a great deal of sense to me, and I wanted to 32 �make these buildings that I designed for the urban renewal sites of which they were for and including one that was nearly a block long so that we could have 12 units on each floor, and it was a three-story affair. And what I did was to place 10-foot streets on every floor. JJ: Ten-foot -- HA: Ten-foot-wide streets or decks. JJ: Decks, okay. HA: So that kids could play on the decks and not necessarily on the street and for people to take care of each other’s kids. JJ: How many stories was it? HA: Three. JJ: Three stories, okay. HA: Three stories. So, it was all designed for the public part of the apartments to face the street, and then to separate those with [01:05:00] closets all the way across each apartment and then put the bedrooms behind it so the street noises wouldn’t be too difficult. But the idea was it was a semi-shared life design with everybody coming home from after work or whatever they did during the day, and have this deck to sit out on in decent weather, and have children play up there, and have one person, you know, be a babysitter for all 12 units if that was the case. That was what I had in my mind. These days, it was called a socially focused project, or a socially focused design, or a shared lifestyle design, which is now coming back, [01:06:00] and I remember my California days, when the [favelas?] in South America -- there was one design I had read about in a 33 �magazine that I’d really enjoyed, and that was, instead of designing some new, fancy place that would sort of be like what was generally accepted, the architect had designed this new project using the concept of the [favelas?] so that there were places for people to go and watch TV, not have to have a TV in their house or couldn’t afford it but -- that all made such great sense to me. You know, it wasn’t a question of running out, and working your tail off, and then buying everything that you’re supposed to buy to have in your house. That didn’t make any sense to me. [01:07:00] It was an act of making people get along. Well, I got terribly disappointed during the project for not just -- I was disappointed at first because, when it came time -- oh, I want to add something there. Do what you can with it. We were told by the local urban renewal office that we were going to be accepted. The CCC voted in favor of our project with only one abstention that I remember. So, we all thought we were going to be the developer, and I was kinda happy about being the architect. JJ: And this is the group from the community that’s supposed to represent the community, they told us that [01:08:00] it was gonna be accepted? HA: Well, during the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- JJ: [The city official representative?] -- HA: No, no. It was from the local office of the Department of Urban Renewal after the CCC had voted in favor of our project with only one abstention. JJ: Okay. HA: And, at that time, I was doing work for another organization, the Construction Aggregates Corporation, and I went to Jamaica to look at a housing system. And 34 �I was really coming back thinking, well, just got this one more hurdle to get through, which was the Board of Urban Renewal and their vote, and I had been supported by Walter Netsch, who was the only architect I could get to do this kind of support because Walter had a sense of what was -- you know, what should be [01:09:00] done and was a very inventive architect who passed away -- I don’t know, about four, five years ago. And he was standing over here, and the man who was teaching at Northwestern University and wrote a book called Proxemics, which was about the distance between people of different ethnic backgrounds or different [local?] backgrounds, like Germans would talk to each other, and they have to have a lot of space in between. South Americans would talk to you like this. JJ: Closer? HA: Closer. Much closer. But he wrote that [01:10:00] book, and he was there -- who was also supporting the project. And we had what? Eleven editorials and a great many newspaper articles about this shared lifestyle method. And we were all getting ready to talk, as you know. JJ: Was Ira Bach there too, or no? HA: I don’t remember seeing Ira. JJ: Okay. Okay. All right. HA: And so, we’re waiting for -- because, since it was a federal program and federal money that was going into this, there had to be this meeting where everybody had a chance to talk either for or against. JJ: This was at City Hall? 35 �HA: Hmm? Yes, this was at City Hall in the Alderman’s Chambers, and we were waiting to talk, and, suddenly -- JJ: Was this the Housing Committee or --? HA: The [01:11:00] Urban Renewal Board -- JJ: Board, okay. HA: -- was way down in the center of the space, sitting at a table with the board members all around it, and we were waiting for -- everybody was waiting to talk. We were all in the perimeter, standing there, waiting -- JJ: Now, how many people were there? HA: Oh, I’m sure there’s at least a hundred people there, all waiting to talk. And then, suddenly, we were told that the board had already voted, and they voted for the other team. And that’s when the one guy who was part of our group jumped over the rail and raced down to the center, where the board members were, and, of course, he was picked up by the [01:12:00] cops and used his head to open a door to take him out of there, and he went to the hospital. JJ: How did you feel about it? HA: I felt bad. I felt tricked because one of the political ways of making people relax is to tell ’em they’re going to win, and then they don’t -- they’re far more relaxed and not involved as much because they believe what they’ve been told, and that -- it is a political trick. So, I felt depressed. After all of those years, and the time we did things, and -- [01:13:00] so, I was building a building out of concrete, one of my favorite materials, and it wasn’t gonna burn down, and it was going to be difficult to destroy. Well, I was learning. I mean, would I do the same thing 36 �again? I’d be interested in the social aspects of a building where we might be able to make community, and community has suddenly become really important, and here I am, on my property, building a building that nobody’s ever seen before, and it’s taken 20 years for people to get used to it. And I have my property up for sale because of 2008, when the economy dropped. Then, I wasn’t getting very much work, and the work that I did have wasn’t going forward. [01:14:00] So, I’ve been struggling since 2008 to now, and I have a couple of projects now, and I continue to work on things that I feel are important, like that 47th and Michigan Avenue project. In some way, I’m going to get this idea across. JJ: So, after that, what -- you know, everybody’s feeling down, depressed, and -- HA: Well, everything started to popcorn, and people started leaving, which is -- JJ: People started leaving where? HA: Well, you weren’t leaving. You went further north, and -- JJ: [That’s right, we went up to?] -- HA: Yes. JJ: [We had a training school?]. (inaudible). HA: [01:15:00] And you ran for alderman (inaudible) -- JJ: In the North Side. HA: -- Award in the North Side. JJ: (inaudible), yeah. HA: Yeah. 37 �JJ: Okay. Now, some other things happened. What about the thing with People’s Park? Was that before or after? HA: That was before. JJ: That was before? Can you describe --? HA: Yes, People’s Park was -- JJ: ’Cause there was also Buckminster Fuller’s geodesic -- HA: We build the dome in this yard. JJ: Okay. What was that? I don’t understand the geodesic dome [by?] Buckminster Fuller ’cause I don’t know -- I met him. HA: Yes, you did. JJ: [But I didn’t know him?]. HA: Yeah, gave you a kiss. JJ: He gave me a kiss and everything, and I didn’t [met him before?]. HA: That was great. He -- JJ: [Who was he? Who was he?]? HA: I’ve heard him talk. Before all of that, I’ve heard him talk twice, and, if he has an opportunity [01:16:00] to talk to a group, he never talks for less than four hours. Amazing man. And he was a whole systems thinker. Not just what it looked like, not just how it functioned, but how the whole thing worked together. In my estimation, the greatest source of whole system-type thinking is just to look at your body. You know, as long as you’re reasonably healthy, your body does everything. It relates to everything. That’s an amazing whole system that we are, and buildings should be designed in the same way instead of a lot -- well, 38 �that’s all coming now because we are in [01:17:00] very difficult straits. We cut down mountaintops for the sake of cheaper coal. We’ve got more gas wells in the United States. People go up to their faucets in the kitchen and light a match, and the water lights up because of the gas. We’ve screwed up the oceans. We are really bad, and we don’t care, and most people won’t even think about it. JJ: So, what? Mr. Fuller is a whole person? HA: He is a whole systems person. JJ: Whole systems person. HA: And what he did and all the things which he developed were based on that. JJ: And he designed the -- HA: Well, he started doing buildings with a dome for the sake of weight and for less materials. So, we would be doing buildings that didn’t weigh nearly [01:18:00] as much, and he always loved to say, “Well, how much did your building weigh?” So, buildings (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). JJ: But wasn’t his design accepted for (inaudible) --? HA: Montreal World’s Fair? JJ: Montreal World’s Fair and the -- HA: Oh, yes. JJ: They were talking about the [moon?] and everything in there. HA: That’s right, yeah. Course, they all leaked. JJ: They all leaked? HA: Yeah. Oh, those things move. Everything moves in those things. And so, they always had to deal with stopping the leaks. 39 �JJ: So, all these geodesic domes leak. HA: All of the ones that were made back then, yeah, did leak. JJ: But he’s the one that designed it for the Montreal Fair, you’re saying? HA: Fuller is, yes. He designed the big -- JJ: Buckminster -- HA: -- almost a complete sphere in the Montreal World’s Fair. JJ: Okay. [01:19:00] And so, we had a -- HA: As well as an automobile with three wheels called the Dymaxion car. The Dymaxion houses he designed. The stuff that was [pertinent?] was kind of taken in by the United States military and used for quick enclosures. They flew him out to Alaska and further north ’cause you already had a lightweight something you could carry underneath a helicopter. JJ: So, why did he come here, to the church and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HA: He came because of Bill Becker, who was one of his students who knew about the meeting that was taking place, and, somehow, he -- JJ: Talking about this meeting in City Hall? HA: No. JJ: Okay, what meeting? HA: No, the meeting that Fuller spoke -- at [01:20:00] the church. JJ: Okay. All right. HA: He knew about that meeting, and he picked Bucky -- JJ: Fuller. HA: -- at the airport and brought him here. 40 �JJ: Oh, okay. Brought him to the meeting. HA: And Fuller always loved grassroots people and always loved people who were trying to do something that made more sense, at least to us. And so, that’s why he was there. And I gave copies of the magazine to -- JJ: I think he also, at one point, lived in Lincoln Park. HA: He did. JJ: [Years ago?]. HA: Yes, he almost committed suicide here. JJ: Oh, he did? HA: Because his first child died, and he sort of almost didn’t want to go any further, and the story goes that he went to Lake Michigan and was getting ready to jump in, but something came to him, and he decided that he was gonna do this kind of work for the rest of his life. [01:21:00] He didn’t care about business, and he wasn’t a businessman. He was an inventor. He was somebody who was open. His system was open to the things which made sense, and he worked that way with those things, inventing what made the most sense. He did maps. He did automobiles. He did housing. He did metal housing. He would suspend things from cables. That’s the way he was, and he was a nonstop talker. He could talk -- you know, he spent maybe an hour talking to the people at the church. I doubt whether they understood much of what he said, but [he?] said, “We don’t need water. We can take showers with gas, and we don’t have to pay for water into the city, and [01:22:00] all that stuff.” All of these things always have to face people who don’t want change. I grew up thinking that, if you showed something 41 �to someone that they’d never seen before, they ought to be overjoyed to see that. Oh, but they’re not. They’re terrified, and I can’t figure it out. Why wouldn’t you want to take a look, at least, and try and understand whatever this was that you’d never seen before? So, when I built this studio -- it’s a passive solar studio -- people would walk down the alley. They’d look at that piece of junk across the way. That’s it. And, you know, I knew that that’s the way it was, but did I want to be that way? No. I didn’t want to be that way. JJ: [01:23:00] Now, you went into the (inaudible) the McCormick Seminary takeover. HA: Yes. JJ: And the Young Lords were there. HA: Yes, and -- JJ: How did you feel? Because [it’s said?] they were a former gang. Did you feel threatened? And you lived right across the street from the church. So, [how did you feel?]? HA: No. I didn’t feel threatened. I felt that this was something that I’d never done before. And so, I was a little concerned in marching over there with you and the group to do the sit-in, but I did. I think you were -- I wanted to do the work, so probably would have done anything to get the work. JJ: Okay. So, your [idea?] was to get the work. [There was at the time?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: [01:24:00] Well, then, it was. Yeah. I’m an architect. I wanted to practice what was important to me, and, you know, you gave me the opportunity to do it. 42 �JJ: And, I mean, you came in 1969, which was really after the community was really -- most of them were evicted by that time. HA: Oh, they were, yeah. JJ: Yeah, I mean, ’cause that started, like, in the ’50s, the Puerto Rican (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HA: I understood that some of the parents of the group, the Young Lords group, owned some property. Not very many, but they did own property. JJ: Yeah, they did own property, but, like, you said you were tricked. My perspective, my thinking, is that they were tricked also because it was prime real estate. HA: Oh, yes. Everybody was tricked. JJ: I mean, I’m not putting words in your mouth. HA: No, everybody was tricked. The real estate brokers would knock on everybody’s doors here and tell [01:25:00] ’em, after they’ve been here for three generations, “If you stay here, your property values are gonna go down, so this is the right time to sell. Best time in the world to sell.” And they bought this stuff for nothin’. JJ: So, you saw that, or you heard that people were knocking on doors? HA: Oh, yes. I was. I was. JJ: What about taxes? You’re probably [aware about?] taxes. Was that going on, or...? HA: I think taxes were quite low. JJ: Oh, really? HA: Yeah, back then. A lot lower than they are now. 43 �JJ: Well, yeah, no, they were lower then. HA: Yes, lower then. Yes. JJ: They started going up. HA: They started going up. JJ: How significantly did they go up? HA: I don’t know. [01:26:00] I’m an old man, so I’m a senior citizen. And so, my taxes don’t really change much on a business zone, so I’m not suffering from the taxes. I’m just suffering for not having very much money. JJ: (inaudible). HA: Yeah. JJ: [Basically?]. But what about your neighbors? HA: I don’t know enough to say. I’ve heard lots of people griping about their taxes, and they had been going up steadily. JJ: And perhaps that’s not an issue. You know, a lot of people lost their houses, and -- so, I’m trying to figure out how -- HA: Yeah, that’s because -- JJ: What were the pressures? HA: -- they don’t have the money to pay the mortgage. It’s not just the taxes -- JJ: Mortgage. HA: -- which does it. It’s the fact that, in order to keep what you’ve got, you have to continue paying [the fee?] to the mortgage banks, which I’m doing. JJ: Okay. I see. [01:27:00] Okay. HA: No, and it has been tough for me. 44 �JJ: What has been the change from the time that you moved here in ’69 until now? I mean, what kind of changes did you see? HA: Well, the changes which I see is that the diversity is gone. The different kinds of people aren’t here, and, back in the early days, everybody had ideas and were interested in producing them or finding ways to do them, were interested in listening to other people talk about their ideas. Now, it’s just money that’s here. It isn’t really anything else. It’s only money. But I do get the sense that some new commercial places [01:28:00] are coming that -- well, of course they are. Anything commercial is here because of the chance to sell what they can sell. So, it is essentially money, and, you know, I designed an [arcade?] over Armitage Street, going from Halsted to Sheffield, and taking the cars off the street, and having a place to walk underneath a translucent cover, and providing landscaping and seating, and you just took the cars off at certain times during the day, and people then -- then, the development of the business world would relate to that arcade, and it would draw people here so that the economy would be better, and [01:29:00] there would be a social aspect to the location. JJ: So, is that going through, or no? HA: No. I keep talking about it and showing it to people, and I showed it to the businesspeople at a meeting, and they were more worried about, if you build it, will that hurt my business? Fear, you know. It’s just fear. But, if we did it, their business would grow again if they could get through it, and they wouldn’t have to shut down ’cause the arcade didn’t go from touching building to touching building on either side of the street. It left five feet of open space so that you could fix 45 �your facades. And then came the [land marking?] of the facades of all the buildings on Armitage Street. The facades, the face piece, the faces of the [01:30:00] buildings, you couldn’t touch. You had to keep it, except I didn’t. I already changed the face before. It was land marked, and I finally got them to agree that I could remodel the front building in the way that produced a good solar-efficient building. So, I managed to get that, you know, 70 percent done. It has a roof on it that allows sunlight into the building, and I get it eight hours a day. I only get five hours a day in this building, but I get eight hours a day in that building. But I don’t have the money to finish the clay plastering of the upper floor, and just finishing that, putting a finished floor down, and finishing the bathroom. [01:31:00] That’s all that’s left, plus some sun shades on the building. JJ: So, you’re more into solar now, or [you’ve always been?]? HA: Yeah. That was something that’s -- because of nature, I realized, after years of understanding, that we’re not paying any attention to nature, and we don’t see the value of it until now. Now, there’s a lot more movement in that direction. We know that nature is a healer, and we’re now providing hospitals with natural environments so that you could get out of your room, and people have been known to heal twice as fast -- or faster. It’s called biophilic. And, now, in [01:32:00] architecture, you’ll see walls of things growing up the walls that can even be food if you can handle it. JJ: So, this is what you’re -- the biophilic is what -- 46 �HA: That’s one of the things I am interested in. That’s why I have this garden, so that I can see it, and I can always be aware of it. I have bamboo. We just picked boxes of pears off the pear tree. JJ: You have a pear tree? HA: Yeah. It was loaded this year. Amazing. It had more pears on it than I can remember. And I have grapes growing up there too. And then -- JJ: When I was growing up, they had a rooster next door to you. The community (inaudible). I’m serious. I’m not joking. They actually had a rooster in that -- so, they were [01:33:00] natural. They were naturalists at that time too. HA: When you were growing --? JJ: When I was growing up here. HA: Oh. Oh, sure. JJ: I mean, I’m serious. [That’s actually?] -- HA: I know people who have chickens now. JJ: Oh, they still have -- they do have chickens? HA: Not here. On Saint Louis. JJ: I’m not being facetious. They did have -- HA: No, right. Right. JJ: -- rooster. I remember [walkin’ and hearin’ it?]. But, so, you have a pear tree, and the -- HA: I have grapes and a pear tree, and I planted bamboo, and a lot of the original planting was done when I was married the second time and I bought this building, but a lot of it, I’ve added since I’ve been here. 47 �JJ: Okay. I wanted to ask you about Reverend Bruce Johnson, and then we’ll probably wanna do some final thoughts ’cause it’s -- [considering the time?]. HA: All right. JJ: But Reverend Bruce Johnson -- because you were here, and you lived here when [01:34:00] that happened. HA: Yes. JJ: So, what was the climate or the feeling of people in the community at that time? I mean, can you describe how the community was taking that? I mean, I was even incarcerated, and the day that it happened, the bishop [bonded?] me out of the jail to come to the wake. HA: Oh. Oh. Oh. JJ: Yeah, I had been [almost bond jumped?], but they gave me an extra charge of bond jumping because I was late for court. So, I had to get bonded out, but it’s all right. I know that it was about two months before Freddy Hampton of the Panthers was killed. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- HA: Yeah, and I knew all those people too, and I was in the building that he was killed in the day after it happened. JJ: So, you went there -- HA: I went there because I knew the lawyers. JJ: Okay, [01:35:00] right. Oh, you mean Dennis Cunningham. HA: Yeah, Cunningham and -- JJ: So, can you describe the community? Because, here, you’ve got the lawyers. You’re here. There’s (inaudible). There’s other people, the Young Lords Church. 48 �I mean, this community -- can you describe what you saw when you first got here in terms of the --? HA: Well, I can only tell you that I saw what was here, and the things that we did -- we were part of the [parent school?]. That’s the first school that was literally owned and governed by the parents of the children, and it started with pre-school. JJ: This is a separate thing, right? You’re talking about the day care center? HA: I’m talking about this neighborhood. JJ: Okay, the parents school [in?] the neighborhood. Okay. HA: Yes, I’m talking about -- it was basically the idea Dennis Cunningham and his [01:36:00] wife -- JJ: Okay. Oh, that’s right. HA: -- that started the school, and we became part of it, and my girls were in it from pre-school through -- well, one went through eighth grade. One went up to eighth grade, and the other was four years younger. The school folded before she -- she had to go to a public school for a few years before she went to high school. But we were part of that, and part of all the meetings, and part of the squabbles, and the thing would start, and then it would fold up, and then it would start again, all in different locations, and even that church was used as [01:37:00] a place where -- in the back area, that was a place where the parent school started up again. So, it was quite a time, you know. It was when people were wanting to do things -- the people that we knew, the lawyers and people interested in a decent education, were actively involved in. We were. I saw that. And I knew, you know, three generations of Italians next door. I knew the woman 49 �who ran the grocery store on the corner of Dayton and Armitage, and I didn’t know a whole lot of other people. I [01:38:00] [would grant you that?] the drugstore was here, and the Old Town School of Music was here, and I was aware of that, and I was on -- (pause) that’s terrible. I can’t remember names. At the moment, I can’t remember those names. Wait a minute. I wanted to write something down. I -JJ: You were talking about Ira Bach last time. HA: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Ira Bach. JJ: Yeah, Ira Bach. Yeah. HA: You know, he used to walk. He lived way on the North Side. He’d walk to work at City Hall every day, rain or shine. JJ: What do you mean? He walked from here to City Hall? HA: He would walk from way north to the city. He lived somewhere in the North Side. He lived way on the North Side. JJ: And why was he important to you? HA: Well, he was important to me [01:39:00] because he was the city planner, because I had heard of him before I came to Chicago, because he was well respected. That’s why. JJ: And did you meet him personally, or --? HA: Yes, I’ve met him personally. JJ: Okay. HA: Yeah. Even if I can’t remember his name, I remember [him personally?]. JJ: Okay. Now, my understanding is that he was for the plan -- 50 �HA: I think he -- I -- JJ: -- even though he couldn’t say it. HA: No, he couldn’t say it, but I was -- all of our editorials and newspaper articles were very positive about what we were doing, very positive about a grassroots development and the social aspects of it. I didn’t mention that, during that whole process, I had to go before the Urban Renewal Board [01:40:00] prior to the final vote, and I heard one of the -- they [quizzed me?], and one of the -- whether it was the head of the Urban Renewal, Lou Hill, or not, I don’t know, but it was a politician who told me that, because of the decks I had built -- you know, they didn’t think that was gonna work, or it was gonna leak, or whatever, and, you know, what could I say? ’Cause I was too young, and I know what I should have said now that I’ve have the damn experience. I should have said, “What the hell do you know about those things? You’re just a politician.” Fuckers. I hate politicians. JJ: But do you really think it had to do with the deck, or it had to do with -- it was also supporting --? HA: No, they always picked on the buildings to put something they don’t want to have happen. [01:41:00] They blame it on the building. They don’t blame it on people. JJ: Right, ’cause my impression was they didn’t want it because it was our plan. It was something coming from the people of the community and the poor people [or whatever?]. Like you said, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). 51 �HA: Well, yeah. They’re not gonna say, “We don’t want it there because we don’t want your people here.” They’re gonna say, “The building doesn’t work, so it’s probably a bad choice.” They might -- JJ: Do you think it’s what happened, or am I putting words in your mouth? HA: I’m sure your words are also part of the truth, but I’m also sure that, at that meeting, what was said out loud was not that we don’t want you. It was that the building won’t work or the building is -- nobody -- whatever it was. JJ: (inaudible). HA: Didn’t look like one they were aware of or -- and it didn’t even have anything to do with that. It just [01:42:00] had something to say about -- that the building wouldn’t work, and I should have just blew my mind, and I should have made that comment right then and there. It probably would have been a big mistake to do it because that would have made it even worse. JJ: But, since that time, you’ve seen that the diversity has -- HA: Oh, the diversity has reduced itself to no diversity at all, and people still living in their boxes, and fixing them up, and spending a lot of facade money, and, now, we have all these new buildings here, but at least all the walls are the same material. I mean, they used to build them with the -- only the facade was what you wanted, and the rear was something cheaper because it was in the rear. It was kind of like doing a [01:43:00] Renaissance front and [Marianne?] behind. JJ: Any final thoughts? HA: That’s a Frank Lloyd Wright statement, by the way. JJ: (inaudible). Okay. Frank Lloyd Wright’s. Okay. 52 �HA: I’ve forgotten what -- he didn’t use the word -- JJ: A quote from him. Okay. HA: He didn’t use the word Renaissance. He used a different work. So -- JJ: Final thoughts? HA: Hmm? JJ: Final thoughts? HA: Final thoughts. (pause) Well, one thought I have is that that situation I was part of was something I had no previous experience [doing?], and it seemed as though [01:44:00] it made sense. You were asking for people to participate in their community, and that was way back -- that’s 52 years ago, which seemed sensible. But the neighborhood has changed to such an extent that -- I don’t know. I had this problem with what buildings should be like. I couldn’t stand the land marking aspect of the front and leaving people to change the insides the way -- it was like giving [01:45:00] yourself a facelift while your cancer is still grabbing you. To me, that’s what that is. I think that living is wonderful and requires a investment (audio cuts out; inaudible). You know, I’m not talkin’ about investing your dollars so that you can spend it after you die. I’m not talkin’ about that. I’m talkin’ about a real future with humanity involved, whatever they are. That’s what I’m talking about. I don’t know what to say. It’s not as though I had a lot of control over it, over the changes. Most of the people that used to live here are gone. There’s really only one or two of us [01:46:00] that have been here all these years, and I’m here because I built this, and it’s my environment. And there are a couple of other people that are doing things in a positive way, and I 53 �finally got people from this community to come here to the studio to see the passive solar aspect of the building. I’ve been published many times. This building has been published in various magazines and books, so -- and I’m going to give a talk some time in -- well, November 2, along with a lot of other people who feel the same way in different areas. I know quite a few of them, and I’m really happy to do that. [01:47:00] So, I think we all have to keep at it, and there’s no other choice. But what can I say to you that relates to -- well, I wouldn’t be the same person I am now without having the experience I had with the Young Lords and the act of wanting to make a place, which is what you were doing. JJ: Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. END OF VIDEO FILE 54 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/57fe7e87e84a77651b6c12da3f0e0b59.mp4 1ccceed034e4067ad3ba09897cb08f59 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Howard Alan vídeo entrevista y biografía Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Narrativas personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Alan_Howard Title A name given to the resource Howard Alan video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alan, Howard Description An account of the resource Interview of Howard Alan on August 22, 2012 by José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. In the video, a man in glasses sits in front of a bookshelf and speaks to the interviewer who is off camera. Howard Alan is an architect who specializes in organic architecture, passive and active solar and alternative energy conservation. He grew up in Chicago and first learned architecture in high school before going on to attend the School of Architecture at the University of Southern California. In 1969, Mr. Alan invited and brought the world renowned architect, Buckminster Fuller, to the People’s Church to meet with Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez and the Young Lords. The Young Lords and the Poor People’s Coalition of Lincoln Park (which Mr. Jiménez was also their president) hired Mr. Alan to draw up plans for a multi-unit, affordable housing complex, as a concrete cooperative alternative to Daley’s Master Plan; a plan which was displacing Latinos and the poor from across Chicago’s near-downtown and lakefront neighborhoods. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- (interviewer) Audio Transcription Center (transcriber) Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-08-22 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f04d59e1b62f207cb46df6111b3fa439.mp3 8185d40d0c4fc8bd99afb8c0af7e8556 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/33e8decc2c136aa5f2ad0605f703da01.pdf 3ad76f039557c82997f51a7c21f04af6 PDF Text Text Howard Shultz- Interview by Eric Gollaneck and Megan Stevens October 4, 2018 0:03 EG: Hello. This is Eric Gollaneck 0:05 MS: And Megan Stevens 0:06 EG: And I’m here today with 0:08 HS: Howard Schultz 0:10 EG: At the old school house in Douglas, Michigan, on October the 4th 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. We’re interested in a little more about your family’s history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck/Douglas areas. Can you tell us your name again and spell it for us? 0:37 HS: Howard Schultz. H-O-W-A-R-D. initial E. Schultz. S-C-H-U-L-T-Z 0:45 EG: Thanks so much, Howard. Uh, so let’s start out, just give us a little bit of background. I know you’ve been interviewed before in connection with the fuel school house project several years ago. Uh, tell us a little about where you grew up. Some of your background. 1:00 HS: I was born in the Kirby house in Douglas in 1935 on January 16th. I spent the first five years of my life in downtown Douglas. I lived in what had been the old Fenville, the old phone exchange building next to the Norton Drug Store. [clears throat] 1:22 EG: All right 1:23 HS: None of which exists anymore 1:24 EG: [Laugh] 1:25 HS: Uh, the first five years of my life were on the streets of Douglas. 1:28 EG: [laugh] 1:28 MS: [laugh] 1:29 HS: There was a hotel on the corner. There were people coming and going. There was, oh, a party type store in the middle. 1:38 EG: Yeah �1:39 HS: There was a restaurant across the street, a hotel, as I said, right on the corner, and a young girl about my age, so I could go beat on her once in a while. 1:47 EG: [laugh] 1:48 HS: so, uh, it was pretty eventful for the first five years, but I don’t remember it at all, of course. 1:53 EG: Right 1:55 HS: We moved to a house up on the hill in Douglas, which was on what we called River Road in those days. Going east towards Fennville and Allegan. [clear throat] And that was in 1940. And my first recollection of that move was I could just barely reach the door handle. 2:12 EG: [laugh] 2:13 HS: Which is, so I was upright at least. 2:15 MS: Yeah. [laugh] 2:15 EG: Right. Right. So in early childhood. Did you live in that house for a number of years? 2:19 HS: We lived in that years, I stayed in that house, grew out of that house till 1953 when I graduated from high school and went away to college in Indiana. 2:30 EG: All right. Where-where did you go to coll— what school specifically? 2:33 HS: Indiana Technical College 2:34 EG: Oh, ok. 2:35 HS: In Fort Wayne, Indiana. 2:37 EG: What’d you study there? 2:38 HS: I studied mechanical engineering. 2:40 EG: All right. Very interesting. 2:43 HS: Yeah. Do you want anything in between? 2:44 EG: [laugh] �2:44 MS: [laugh] 2:45 EG: We’ll, we’ll circle back on a couple of things here. So, but just to lay it out I know you’ve got, uh, deep family connections in the area here, but tell us a little bit about your, your family, about your parents, their names, and siblings you had. 3:01 HS: [clear throat], well my father was the, at the time when I was born worked for the, what was the state highway department. 3:09 EG: Mm 3:09 HS: At the time. And their garage is right across the street from the Kirby House, which is the ex-garage and, and a bunch of other things. He worked there, and, in 1940, of course, World War Two was just going into swing. And a lot of the boys were being pulled away, and my dad ended up working for the village of Douglas. He was village clerk already, from 1932 on, he’d been village clerk, and he ended up being the street commissioner, for, for the town, and the treasurer at one time. And he was on the school board. 3:48 EG: [laugh] 3:48 HS: several years. And he was, uh, uh, with the Masonic temple. He was past master several times. So he was a pretty major player in town for a while. 3:58 EG: Right 3:58 MS: Yeah 3:58 HS: There weren’t many people in those days. The town had about five hundred people, and we probably had close to three hundred going off someplace. 4:08 EG: Right 4:08 HS: You know, that could, able bodied people. A lot of people went away to the war, either in the war directly 4:14 EG: Mhm 4:14 HS: Or the war effort. 4:15 EG: Absolutely. What, how old was he in 1940? What year was he born? 4:20 HS: He was born in, I think 1905. 4:24 EG: Ok. Yeah. �4:26 HS: and, uh, [clear throat] My mother is a, she was a Chase family. And Chase family was north of, north of town. South of town, on what is now Blue Star Highway. It was US 31 aft-afterwards. But the road, there’s an old map in our system that called it the Chase Road. 4:44 EG: Ok. 4:44 HS: Because the highway, actually, the main highway was out on the lakeshore. And they came through and went across the highway went across Saugatuck to the car ferry. 4:55 EG: Mhm 4:56 HS: That was the only place they could cross to Kalamazoo down here [clear throat] until they built the Douglas bridge, which goes way back into the 1800’s 5:03 EG: hmm 5:04 HS: But my mother went to, um, Saugatuck High School as I did. She graduated in 1922. 5:10 EG: hm 5:11 HS: Um, curiously the, the school burned. She was in class at Saugatuck High School, and it also burned when I went to Saugatuck High School 5:19 EG: [laugh] 5:19 MS: [laugh] 5:23 EG: You haven’t, you don’t have any grandkids that are in Saugatuck, that are in Saugatuck High School do you? That we should, uh 5:25 MS: [laugh] 5:28 HS: I have no idea, uh, what caused either of them. Um, I don’t know the details of my mother’s except that she said that it burned. I don’t know anything about that. But our’s, it burned everything but the, um, gymnasium. 5:42 MS: Oh wow. 5:42 HS: We, we were able to keep going. We portioned the gymnasium in half, we could still have half room classes with the portable walls. We still had a few classrooms there. And some of the classes were in one of the churches. I can’t, I don’t have any detail about any of that, but it was the younger classes they went to high school. High school was at the, um, still at the building, at the location. On top of the hill. That’s the high school that was on top of the hill. �6:09 EG: hm. 6:09 HS: Right now there’s nothing but condos up there. 6:12 EG: Hm 6:14 HS: And that’s where we graduated. We were back into a new building my senior year, uh, that was my sophomore year I think when it burned. Took them a couple of years they, they were talking about building a high school, not building a high school. And we even had a parade when the council was voting on whether to bond to build a new school. 6:38 EG: mm hm 6:38 MS: mm hm 6:38 HS: Or not, and we had a parade and said “Your children do not want to wear wooden shoes. 6:43 EG: [laugh] 6:43 HS: Because the plan was either to amend our system with Holland’s or Fennville 6:50 MS: Oh 6:50 HS: And a quite a few of our kids already, because freedom of choice, school of choice, freedom 6:56 EG: mm. yeah 6:56 MS: mm hm 6:57 HS: Had just kicked in, and some of our kids right out of town, Douglas went to Fennville. 7:02 EG: right 7:02 HS: Which Fennville didn’t have a good reputation in those days 7:05 EG: hm 7:06 HS: And Saugatuck was, we were down to, well my class, in my time frame it was like fifty students for the whole school �7:12 MS: Oh wow 7:13 HS: [clear throat] 7:14 EG: yeah. 7:14 HS: And there wasn’t that big build up that you have now in Saugatuck Township around, between here and Holland. 7:20 EG: mm 7:22 HS: And that’s brought a lot of the kids in from rather than go to Holland, they came to Saugatuck. And so, that’s why that got divided up. Uh, I don’t know how long that school lasted, uh, but I was surprised to come home, we were overseas for a while with my job right after I got out of college 7:38 EG: mm 7:38 HS: And I came back home, and they had torn that school down and turned it into a condo and rebuilt the one that they have now up on the hill which you probably know where that is. 7:47 EG: mm hm. Yeah. We’ve been there with the Contemporary Stories 7:50 MS: Yeah 7:51 EG: of Saugatuck Project 7:52 HS: that [clear throat] was a major, major issue for this city 7:57 EG: yeah 7:58 HS: to build that major, major school 8:00 MS: Yeah 8:00 HS: In the face of the type of the population we must have had in those days. No major bondage in other words 8:06 EG: Right. 8:08 HS: And anyway, they ended up with a nice point up there. 8:09 EG: Tell, tell us more about that parade. Where you involved �8:11 HS: Oh yeah, sure. 8:11 EG: in that at all? 8:14 HS: We made signs and carried them. Marched up and down the street. 8:16 MS: [laugh] 8:16 HS: Talking about we don’t wear, and, and, the cheerleaders’ head cheerleader, I assumed it was head cheerleader 8:25 EG: [laugh] 8:26 HS: She and, and I probably were the leaders because I was in basketball at that time. 8:30 EG: Ok 8:33 HS: And uh, put that parade together and marched up and down the street the night the council was meeting 8:36 EG: Yeah 8:37 HS: Her dad was president of the council 8:39 EG: Oh, wow. 8:39 HS: He was another of the major fathers who were around. 8:42 EG: yeah 8:42 MS: Mm hm 8:42 HS: So the vote went, “We’re gonna build” 8:45 EG: What, do you remember what year that was? 8:49 HS: Probably about 1950 8:50 EG: mm. Ok. 8:52 HS: 51, at at the most. I don’t know for sure. 8:54 EG: Yeah. Community schools. That’s still a, still a powerful issue, right? �9:00 HS: Yeah. 9:00 EG: Lots of strong feelings about it. 9:02 HS: So that was, uh, and that was a nice thing to happen. They built a very nice school out of it. We were in the process, my senior class, our shop class was building, was building a new shop. 9:15 Unkown: You taping? 9:16 MS: Yeah sorry 9:18 EG: Mmhm yeah 9:20 HS: My shop class was building new racks and things for the shop 9:24 EG: Ok 9:25 HS: Which we hadn’t had a shop before 9:26 EG: Ok. Yeah. So this was new. 9:28 HS: Yeah. It was a new thing. 9:30 EG: Was it woodworking, wood working shop? Metal working? 9:32 HS: Uh, mostly wood working 9:34 EG: Yeah. 9:34 HS: I don’t recall much metal working stuff. Might of had couple of pieces 9:39 EG: yeah. 9:39 HS: But no welders or stuff like that 9:41 EG: Some brakes or something like that. Sure. 9:41 HS: Mm 9:45 EG: Yeah 9:45 HS: It was nice, it was going to be a nice school for a couple of students �9:49 EG: right 9:49 HS: But I didn’t get to see it much, yeah. 9:50 EG: You were put to work. 9:52 HS: I was working elsewhere. 9:53 EG: Right. Absolutely. Yeah. So we’ve had, we’ve interviewed you about the Douglas school, the Union school building we’re sitting in right now. Uh, anything in particular you want to share about that? Uh, about your, your youth in Douglas? 10:09 HS: Well 10:09 EG: Or kind of pre-high school years or middle school 10:11 HS: At various, at various times I’ve helped out, Jim Smeeken and uh, uh, (pause) uh, what’s his name with the, with the photos? Haven’t seen him in quite a while now. Jack! 10:29 EG: Oh, Jack Sheridan 10:30 HS: Jack Sheridan 10:31 EG: Yeah 10:31 HS: Um, I try to, try to help them out with photographs, they were hanging photographs. And I have quite a few and I turned them in down at the basement. 10: 39 EG: Right 10:40 HS: Storage for various things 10:42 EG: yeah 10:43 HS: And uh, but I’ve said, and I just said it to Nathan, not too long ago, I can identify a lot of the names on those picutres for class attendees 10:51 EG: m hm. Yeah. 10:53 HS: for various ones we have for graduation classes, and, or other sub graduating, several classes Not graduates, but just class 10:58 EG: right �11:00 HS: Photos 11:00 EG: Yeah 11:01 HS: which was a common thing. We used to we used take because there weren’t that many people 11:04 EG: Yeah 11:04 HS: Class photos every, every year for a while. Some have, maybe not been taken or some haven’t surfaced, but everyone that I’ve ever seen I made sure they’ve got copies here. 11:15 EG: Right. Yeah. No. That- that’s 11:17 HS: My sister, my sister also and she had several classes that, you know, where beyond me, behind me. She was five years younger than I. 11:24 EG: Yeah. tell me a little bit about your siblings. We’ve asked about that, and we, come back to that for a second. Tell me about your siblings 11:31 HS: Well, I had one daughter. Sister, I mean. One sister, and my folks had twins. 11:37 EG: Hm. 11:37 HS: And the one daughter did not survive. So I had one sister that survived. 11:42 EG: And what was your sister, what’s your sister’s name? 11:45 HS: Her name was Judy. Judith Anne. And she married a Lovejoy, finally 11:50 EG: [laugh] 11:51 HS: After, uh, a period of time in school and, uh, working in Saugatuck. So, she was kind of at home, helping my dad with book work a lot. She took bookkeeping at MSU, and so she stayed there until her, um, husband-to-be was in the Navy. 12:08 EG: Mm hm 12:10 HS: Until he had the chance to get out, and you know, got reassigned to locations someplace. 12:15 EG: Right. Right. They moved away. Did they come back? �12:17 HS: They moved. They were in Jacksonville, Florida, for a while. 12:21 EG: Hm. 12:22 HS: And he’d been in Green, Greenland for years. Frank Lovejoy 12:26 EG: Hmm 12:27 HS: He’d been there for a few years. And, uh, his career was photographic for the, for the military. 12:31 EG: Ok. 12:32 HS: So, uh, he had a good chance at a career, but he gave up on that. He came back to Saugatuck and worked here. There were factories here. There was Crampton’s out here, which is, uh, whatever the factory is now that’s about three, three generations beyond the last 12:49 EG: mhm 12:50 HS: at that, at that property, during the war there was a lot of factory jobs. Jobs going everywhere that people could work at. 12:57 EG: Right 12:59 HS: So anyway we, uh, the town was, I feel very uh, fortunate, uh, at one time we had a memory board, uh, military board at the corner of the park down there. Berry field? 13:14 EG: Yes 13:15 HS: And it had a list of people and no one got, of the town people got directly killed in the war. 13:24 EG: hmm 13:24 HS: They all came back 13:26 EG: Ok 13:26 HS: They all came back. There were a couple of losses later 13:31 EG: Yeah 13:31 HS: Neighbor, neighboring areas �13:35 EG: mm hm 13:35 HS: That I knew about personally. Where a couple of guys got, got killed but, 13:39 EG: Yeah 13:40 HS: One was on a, he come back and was flying a, uh, crop dusting planes, 13:47 EG: hmm 13:47 HS: Because in the military, they’d learned to fly some of them 13:50 EG: Right. Yeah. 13:51 HS: And uh, that was one of the interesting stories. I started to talk to Mary last night 13:57 EG: About the airport? 13:57 HS: About the airport 13:58 EG: Yeah 13:59 HS: Because, um, the Crane family who are still in Fennville with the apple orchards 14:03 EG: Right 14:03 HS: Um, among other things, are, um. The Cranes didn’t have hillsides or room to build an airport. One of their sons had wanted to fly. So the Cranes built an airport right down here, which is now on Blue Star right at the exit, at the the interchange, the expressway 14:22 EG: Oh really? 14:24 HS: Yes. That was an airport down there. 14:25 EG: All right. 14:26 HS: And uh, he built a T-shaped airport. Across- cross 14:30 EG: mm hm 14:30 HS: Uh, east west, and north south. And their planes were coming right over our house on Douglas 14:38 EG: [laugh] �14:38 HS: On Water Street 14:39 EG: Yeah. 14:39 HS: As a youngster, so I had, that was right after the war, so that would have been like 49, 50 14:43 EG: mm hm 14:44 HS: Right, my years of being interested in planes 14:46 EG: Yeah 14:47 HS: So we got into model airplanes. There was a big model airplane contingent around here at that time too 14:50 EG: [laugh] 14:52 HS: And, uh, I met a guy that got me involved and interested in going to the school in Indiana, this technical college 14:59 EG: Ok. 15:00 HS: So it was aero and mechanical, and a lot of the school was for returning vets 15:04 EG: Sure 15:05 HS: Who could go to school on the GI 15:07 EG: Right 15:07 HS: You know, there were kids, there were people, I just met a guy the other day that actually got pulled out of school because he was in the military. He’d been in the military, whatever they call it. ROTC or-15:18 EG: mm hm 15:18 HS: something. And had been training in pilot, pilot, as a pilot. He was already trained pilot 15:22 EG: Yeah 15:23 HS: In high school. He got pulled out before he graduated from high school �15:27 EG: Wow 15:28 HS: Ended up flying B-51’s in the, the, uh Korea when Korean War started 15:33 EG: Oh wow 15:34 HS: In the 50’s 15:36 EG: Yeah 15:36 HS: I just missed, I just missed that because I went to engineering school 15:39 EG: Right 15:39 HS: On, on a, uh, deferment, deferment. Because I was going for engineering school 15:47 EG: mm hm 15:47 HS: And they wanted engineers, so 15:49 EG: Right. You’re kind of between, between those two, those two windows of time in some ways. Between World War Two, and you’re much too young for World War Two, but 16:00 HS: We were still on the draft for the Korean War 16:03 EG: Right. Yeah. 16:05 HS:.A lot of the late guys did, and some of them already went. A lot of my, a lot of my friends that didn’t go to school 16:11 EG: Right 16:11 HS: Went right into the, within in a year were in the, in the war 16:14 EG: Right. Yeah. Talk a little about that, that time period. It sounds like you had had, you had memories of the second world war 16:25 HS: um 16:26 EG: or, or not much? 16:26 HS: Not much. We couldn’t do that, like it is now, at all. The only way we could find out was, everything was censored. �16:35 EG: Mmhm 16:35 HS: Uh, we have a bunch of letters in our, from our relatives. 16:39 EG: mm hm 16:40 HS: And, uh, they can’t say anything. They’re all military 16:43 EG: mm hm 16:44 HS: Foreign military setup 16:45 EG: Right. That- that V Mail. 16:47 HS: Yeah. 16:48 EG: That was vimeographed 16:49 HS: vimeographed and 16:50 EG: and edited 16:50 HS: and reduced and redacted and all that. Yeah that. We got some of that. So they couldn’t say anything by mail. And the only thing that could come out was that every Saturday we could go to Fennville. Fennville had a little movie theater. 17:01 EG: mm hm 17:02 HS: And we could go over there, and you could get that, what five minute news reel? 17:06 EG: mm hm 17:06 HS: Or something. Propaganda type news reel 17:08 EG: Right. 17:08 HS: With the boys are here and the boys are there 17:10 EG: mmhm 17:10 HS: and we’re winning this. We’re winning that. 17:12 EG: Yeah �17:12 HS: And we need more money. 17:13 EG: Yeah. 17:13 HS: Everything was about money. You know? We were--I still have some ration, uh, stickers for, for gasoline 17:20 EG: Right 17:22 HS: uh, my dad was getting ration stickers for my daughter, my sis, his daughter, my sister [laugh] 17:29 EG: Yeah. 17:29 HS: When she was twelve years 17:31 EG: Right 17:32 HS: so I mean they, they were because he wanted to go deer hunting and that, he had to use up a lot of his stickers to go up north to go deer hunting, and 17:38 EG: For sure. Yeah 17:39 HS: He never, he never missed a year of deer hunting. 17:41EG: Ok. Had to plan ahead for that one 17:42 HS: Yeah 17:43 EG: For sure 17:45 HS: So, yeah, that was about the only thing we could find out 17: 47 EG: Yeah 17:48 HS: My uncle [clear throat] one of my uncles had been in World War One that was regular family. He was the um, postmaster in downtown Douglas. His name was Jean Campbell 17:58 EG: Ok. 17:59 HS: And, uh, he used to come over to be at my folks’ house. My folks never anywhere. And he’d come over to the house, and he’d want to listen to the Walter Winchell Show. Radio show, at night. �18:08 EG: mm hm 18:09 HS: And he was embedded and talking 18:12 EG: mm hm 18:13 HS: Street’s talk, so 18:14 EG: yeah 18:15 HS: That’s what we’d find out from what was going on 18:17 EG: yeah 18:18 HS: But it was a big, big pressure on everybody’s just to live, you know? What was going on 18:24 EG: Right 18:25 HS: My aunt went to Detroit and ended up in the war effort in a factory 18:28 EG: mhm 18:29 HS: Don’t know what, never got any details 18:31 EG: [laugh] 18:31 HS: I always thought she was putting B-29’s together 18:33 EG: [laugh] 18:34 HS: Or B-24’s together 18:35 EG: Right 18:36 HS: Um 18:37 EG: How old were you in 1945? 18:39 HS: 10 18:40 EG: Ok. Do you have memories of the end of the war? 18:43 HS: Yes. Everybody was very happy �18:44 EG: [laugh] 18:45 HS: Very, very happy. I don’t remember the big scare about the Japanese much until afterwards, but the Japanse were in the Aleutians 18:54 EG: mmhm 18:55 HS: And they were finding floating bombs, you know from 18:57 EG: mmhm 18:59 HS: from the 18:58 EG: yeah 18:58 HS: What do you call it, the currents? 18:59 EG: The balloon bombs 19:00 HS: balloon bombs? 19:01 EG: That they dropped yeah. 19:02 HS: yeah. Uh. Never heard much about that till afterwards. 19:06 EG: Yeah 19:07 HS: I’ve been very interested in history. War history, 19:08 EG: yeah 19:08 HS: ever since. I watch everything I can watch on TV about it 19:12 EG: hm 19:12 HS: Cause there’s this new footage coming out of Japan and Germany yet 19:15 EG: hm 19:15 HS: Both of them. So, a lot of, lot of stuff’s still coming out. Keep track of 19:20 EG: Do you remember anything on, uh, you know, the uh, VE-- VJ Day or you know �19:26 HS: oh yeah 19:26 EG: the signing of, you know the end of the war 19:29 HS: Oh yeah 19:29 EG: Here in Douglas or in Saugatuck? 19:31 HS: Oh I don’t remember any, uh, formal celebrations, but there were a lot of gunshots in the neighborhood 19:37 EG: [laugh] Lots of people letting off 19:40 HS: Letting off steam 19:41 EG: Letting off steam, and uh, 19:43 HS: little pressure 19:43 EG: the end of the 19:44 HS: a box of shells was precious in those days too. 19:47 EG: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. So, uh, let’s talk a little bit more about, uh, the airport. Just to kind of clarify that some. So you mentioned the Crane brothers 19:58 HS: They built and 19:59 EG: and family 19:59 HS: and I spent some time, I worked at the Fennville Rod and Gun Club Pancake Breakfasts 20:04 EG: mmhm 20:04 HS: And I take money there and Mr. Crane, the last still surviving of the original family, used to come in and wait for his family. They’d get together for breakfast. He, several times, was ahead, and he’d sit down with me and talk. And I consider those my most precious times 20:20 EG: [laugh] 20:20 HS: Cause I could talk to him about the airport. 20:24 EG: yeah. �20:24 HS: Because I was flying model airplanes. By that time, I was with a gang of guys, you know, we used to start with little ones and pretty soon bigger and bigger. 20:30 EG: yeah 20:31 HS: And one of the fellows was a son of the Wimple Grocery store that was mentioned last night 20:37 EG: Yeah 20:38 HS: But from Saugatuck and he was older, he was quite a bit older than I, but he was well entrenched in model airplanes 20:45 EG: [laugh] 20:45 HS: so he kind of led the pack 20:47 EG: yeah 20:47 HS: and that’s how I met another fellow through him that I ended up in school with 20:50 EG: yeah 20:51 HS: But, uh, Bud had gotten married and went to Western. Western had a air, air course, uh system then. So I was kind of working with these guys, thinking that’s the way I’m going to go 21:01 EG: right 21:02 HS: and so I was talking to Mr. Crane, and he said that was really a tight little airport. He said, but we had now choice because we couldn’t put one over on our property 21:11 EG: hm 21:11 HS: He says the only thing that ever happened bad was one of the guys took out the pipe, the lines one time, took out the electric lines 21:17 EG: Oh 21:17 HS: Because they were set up east/west. They didn’t get a lot of property east west. 21:23 EG: Ok �21:23 HS: But east end, ended in woods. 21:27 EG: yeah 21:27 HS: So they had to start from there and go west and come up over the, the, the building is still there. The little light house, uh, restaurant property is there. 21:36 EG: Oh. Ok. Sure. 21:38 HS: And he said they had to come up over that well the wires where, you know well the wires are 21:43 EG: right 21:44 HS: They’re still there. 21:45 EG: Yeah 21:45 HS: He said they’d take them out one time. One of their planes 21:47 EG: Wow 21:48 HS: All they had was those, um, Piper Clubs and uh, 21:49 EG: mmhm 21:50 HS: Maybe a Taylor Craft or two. Little, light weight 21:52 EG: Right 21:52 HS: Little planes 21:53 EG: single engine 21:55 HS: And, uh, they’d come, if there was wind out of the Northwest, which it was a lot, 21:58 EG: mm hm 21:58 HS: they could come straight north out of the runway. Came right out over East Douglas. 22:05 EG: mm hm 22:05 HS: Which was 294 Water Street was our house [laugh] �22:09 EG: [laugh] 22:09 HS: They’d come over real low, so I’d always be watching them too. Uh, as they’d be going over and 22:17 EG: yeah 22:17 HS: I had model planes of them, and I flew uh, radio control, not radio control but string control hand control 22:26 EG: Ok 22:26 HS: I never got quite to radio control. I was building one, then I decided I’ve got save my money for college, so 22:31 EG: right. Yeah. It’s probably a relatively expensive hobby. 22:35 HS: Well I was in those days yeah. 22:36 EG: Not the same technology 22:39 HS: Well It still is expensive 22:40 EG: yeah 22:40 HS: It hasn’t got 22:41 EG: [laugh] 22:41 HS: That hasn’t gone away. It’s gotten a lot more complicated, though. 22:44 EG: right for sure. 22:45 HS: So anyway, uh, that was fun, Mr, uh, Mr. Crane telling me about that. But other than that, they didn’t have much trouble at, later. Somewhere along the line, they sold off a corner of it. The back corner of that airport, or, leased it off 23:05 EG: mhm 23:06 HS: To, um a track, ra- race track. So 23:08 EG: right 23:09 HS: That’s where Douglas Race Track became �23:10 EG: Right 23:11 HS: I think it was about a quarter mile, maybe three eighths mile dirt 23:14 EG: hm 23:14 HS: track, a small little dirt track. 23:16EG: Yeah. 23:16 HS: The confines of the corner 23:17 EG: Within the airport itself. Yeah. 23:20 HS: And, uh, I ended up, uh, when I was in college, (pause), uh, first year I had a car. I had an old car that needed some work. And I ended up, my dad, my dad, I got to work for my dad on the county, he also was county road supervisor 23:37 EG: mm hm 23:37 HS: after he left Douglas part of it, but the county high way split. 23:41 EG: mm hm 23:43 HS: In 1960 about, no it was earlier than that. 23:46 EG: mm hm 23:46 HS: They split up (pause) and they, the county, uh, garage was up behind our house. And the state highway garage was still down on Blue Star here, which was still 31. But anyway, I used to fly model airplanes that were the same as what 24:05 EG: [laugh] 24:05 HS: what they were flying, and I, I lost one. We’d go down on 31, and my buddy, this was uh, Bud Wimple, he had had electric, uh, power, electric control planes 24:17 EG: Hm 24:18 HS: Remote control. And he lost one, one time, and the big trucks that were going down 31. I remember the plane going “mrow” and he lost control of it. It could only go about a quarter of a mile, you know. �24:28 EG: mhm 24:28 HS: Blew, the thing was doing loop de loos 24:31 EG: Yeah 24:31 HS: and right between the big trucks going down the highway. 24:35 EG: [laugh] Did, did he get it back, or 24:38 HS: Yeah, I got it back, he was a little crippled, and, 24:40 EG: Ok 24:40 HS: uh, I don’t know if he got that in the war or but he was, 24:45 EG: yeah 24:45 HS: one leg was bad. I was able to run it down for him. It was way out in the dunes over 24:49 EG: oh wow 24:49 HS: towards the lake. 24:50 EG: Ok 24:50 HS: And I lost a plane my own self out that way one time 24:53 EG: yeah. 24:53 HS: Cause I was flying a free flight, and I just put so much gas in, it was the only way you can turn ‘em off. 24:59 EG: right 25: HS: And uh, it was, it went way the heck out. I was eating dinner one night, a couple months later. My dad gets a phone call. And he says “No, that’s not me. That’s my son.” Some guy had found it on his farm way out back there some place. 25:12 EG: Ok 25:13 HS: [laugh] 25:15 EG: [laugh] �25:15 HS: so we had some fun with model airplanes, but we, with model airplanes we did a lot, uh, we did speed racing 25:21 EG: mhm 25:22 HS: We did ca-, uh, what’d we call them? Fights, fights, uh, dog fights 25:26 EG: ah 25:27 HS: With model airplanes, all on the Douglas ball diamond there. 25:31 EG: yeah 25:31 HS: And, uh, on a Sunday afternoon, we could get cars parked all the way around that ball diamond. Just like a softball game. 25:39 EG: Wow. Watching that 25:40 HS: Watching 25:41 EG: Watching the airshow 25:41 HS: those model planes 25:42 EG: air show. Yeah. 25:43 HS: those guys with the planes 25:44 EG: no kidding 25:45 HS: It was very popular in those days. 25:47 EG: Were those planes you built, were they built out of kits or were they things you made up out of parts yourself? 25:51 HS: Mine was pretty much a kit 25:53 EG: mm hm 25:54 HS: You could get planes in several magazines 25:56 EG: mm hm �25:56 HS: and make them yourself out of those planes 25:59 EG: Right 25:59 HS: like the ones that I made for racing 26:02 EG: mm hm 26:02 HS: we started the speed, speed kit. You just got a kit in the mail easy. 26:05 EG: mm hm 26:06 HS: Or you got a picture of a kit in a magazine. You’d put your own idea in it and you’d do it your own way if you had the right tools. You’d cut them out of balsa wood and 26:13 EG: right 26:14 HS: glued them together 26:16 EG: yeah 26:16 HS: Yeah, I had a near record, record speedster at one time. 26:21 EG: [laugh] 26:21 HS: I never got it proved, but Grand Rapids used to have, in those days it was called AMA, American Modelist Association, Meets in Grand Rapids. It was one of the stops. 26:32 EG: hm. Yeah. 26:32 HS: but I never went up to Grand Rapids and tried to run. You know, that’s where the big boy’s meet 26:38 EG: Right. [laugh] 26:39 HS: I was just a little boy. 26:40 EG: right 26:42 HS: but I made one, one in one of their classes 26:44 EG: yeah 26:45 HS: I just didn’t have an engine suitable to �26:47 EG: mm hm 26:47 HS: But I still got speed real close to what they were getting. 26:49 EG: right. Oh, that’s fascinating. Yeah, we hadn’t heard much about that. So that’s a really interesting story 26:49 HS: There was a hard ware store. Came into Douglas, downtown Douglas. Called Tate’s. Uh, in those days there was an outfit called Tate and Burr’s. The guys were partners. I don’t know if they were married to the same wives, I mean different wives. They were friends. 27:11 EG: Yeah [laugh] 27:12 HS: They’d come into town and each time, Burn’s took over Vansickle’s store, you heard it 27:18 EG: yeah 27:19 HS: Or grocery store. You heard of that? 27:20 EG: Yeah. Yeah. 27:22 HS: Ok. Well the grocery store was had been Burn, had been ,uh, been uh, Vansickle’s, and uh, they sold out and as he got older. Burns took that over and Tate started a hardware store in a place, now there’s another gift shop some kind down there. 27:41 EG: mm hm 27:41 HS: And the building’s still there. Right in the main stretch, but on the west end of the main stretch on the north side of the road. And he wanted to be a good model airplane, uh, dispensary for 27:53 EG: hm 27:53 HS: for all kids coming over. That was one of the things. He was a good hardware store owner, in the timeframe that it needed because everybody was building rebuilding old houses and 28:02 EG: mm hm 28:03 HS: A lot of stuff going on. I was surprised to see it didn’t carry on, but 28:08 EG: mm hm �28:08 HS: it couldn’t. But anyway, he uh, he commissioned me to make some display models for him. So I had old display models hanging up in the, uh, store at the time. And I flew one, one time and, it wasn’t a good flyer, but it looked pretty and that’s what he wanted. 28:23 EG: [laugh] 28:24 HS: So that was always kind of fun 28:26 EG: yeah. 28:27 HS: again, those are all my years probably up to sixteen, maybe seventeen. 28:30 EG: mm hm. Yeah. Moved on to other things. Did you play basketball 28:36 HS: I played basketball at Saugatuck 28:36 EG: at Saugatuck high school? 28:38 HS: That’s one of the main reasons I went over there is because they had the junior team at one point 28:42 EG: mm 28:43 HS: And the year I went they didn’t have a junior team. But I still, I didn’t know how to play basketball. I just knew about it. 28:49 EG: ok. 28:50 HS: But, uh, I liked to play it. Worked hard at it. Practiced for a whole year, and then finally. I couldn’t play the first year. I uh, had a heart condition that wouldn’t allow me to play according to their doctor assessment. 29:02 EG: Ok. Hm. 29:03 HS: After they, they decided later, you know, I played scrimmages and worked out hard myself the whole year. 29:09 EG: yeah 29:10 HS: And I was still there. 29:11 EG: yeah �29:12 HS: So they decided to let me play 29:14 EG: [laugh] 29:14 HS: And, uh, so I was in the last three years, 10, 11, and 12th grade 29:17 EG: yeah 29:18 HS: And, uh, got MVP the final, the senior year. 29:22 EG: [laugh] 29:24 HS: But, uh, that was, that was fun. We didn’t make it to the, we didn’t make it past the district, so. 29:30 EG: Right. (pause) Say a little bit about games and, uh, you know, kind of what that, what that was like, what, what home games were like at the high school 29:41 HS: Oh 29:42 EG: and who came out and 29:43 HS: Well, high, high school was not much to be honest. It had a baseball team for years. Right. I got two letter, you know sweater. I played baseball too. But the big thing for me was Saugatuck was Douglas Athletic club. Which was this building over here at the time. 30:00 EG: Right. 30:02 HS: And those guys went to the war. Most of them young guys. 30:04 EG: Yeah 30:05 HS: And they came back and started trying to play ball. They had been softball players before they went, a lot of them. 30:11 EG: mm hmm 30:12 HS: And um, while they were gone, we had a junior AC. We were high school kids 30:19 EG: hm 30:19 HS: at the time. And that was, that was fun. We, uh, we played, uh, we started out at one time before the war, or just right around the war time, there had been a girls’ team, and a �boys’ team. They went, women had gotten a team together. Some company had sponsored them and bought them uniforms 30:38 EG: mm hmm 30:40 HS: and got them started. There were women, women playing softball here. 30:42 EG: Yeah 30:42 HS: And the men’s, men’s team was all right at the range that they’d be going to the war. So, uh, it didn’t the girls’ team didn’t last long, and most of the men’s team folded up. I got in. I started off as batboy of the men’s team 30:54 EG: hm 30:55 HS: But I don’t know if that was 1939, or not, but I’ve got a picture some place to show. But I was batboy at the age of fourteen or there abouts. 31:04 EG: yeah 31:04 HS: Because I was tall they’d stick me in when they were short of players, and I’d play second base or right field 31:08 EG: [laugh] 31:08 MS: [laugh] 31:08 HS: or wherever I could play. 31:10 EG: Yeah. 31:11 HS: And all of a sudden there were two, three, more of us guyys that were playing with the men’s team. 31:15 EG: Yeah. 31:15 HS: And pretty soon we were the men’s team. 31:17 EG: Yeah. 31:17 MS: [laugh] 31:18 HS: You know, just quickly because of the war thing �31:19 EG: Yeah. 31:20 HS: The women’s team folded up, but get started to be the men’s team we ended up being the junior AC’s. They called us for a while. We had these red uniforms, but they all zipped on the side (pause) 31:34 EG: Ok 31:34 MS: Sure 31:35 HS: Where this is going? 31:35 EG: [laugh] Yeah. Yeah. 31:35 MS: [laugh] 31:37 HS: So we became the Douglas Squatters 31:40 EG: [laugh] yeah. Hm. 31:40 MS: Oh. [laugh] 31:45 HS: So anyway, that lasted a couple of years. Some guy in Saugatuck came up with that name. I don’t take credit for it 31:51 MS: [laugh] 31:51 EG: [laugh] 31:51 HS: He called us, and after the red team folded quickly, because the men were gone we became the AC’s. we were 31:59 EG: yeah 32:00 HS: In high school a couple three of us. We practiced and were working hard and uh, 32:04 EG: Yeah. 32:05 HS: Three or four guys could pitch, and several times we were short of people too. And we were, not that many guys were all that athletic at school. There were a bunch of guys that didn’t even play basketball or anything 32:17 EG: yeah �32:17 HS: with the school. And the same with the town. So we had some helpers. We got some people in from Fennville, and some people came along. We used to have a rivalry between the lakeshore. 32:26 EG: mm 32:27 HS: There was a whole gang of guys at the lake shore level. They got a ball game team together. And we’d get together, and play scrimmages, sort of. Pretty soon it was a real rivalry. Games went on between the lakeshore and the Douglas ACs 32:41 EG: Wow 32:42 HS: And that’s still coming back because my daughter has a place on the lakeshore 32:46 EG: Yeah 32:47 HS: And she’s met people out there that have kids, second generation that remember the Douglas AC’s and the Lakeshore team 32:53 EG: Right 32:53 HS: fighting and playing and couple of people remember me, because I’m still around, but um, yeah that was fun. That was a good, good time. 33:01 EG: Tell us a little bit more. We’ve heard, and this has come up, lots of baseball. Lots of people playing baseball in summer long growing up here in Douglas. And stories about the athletic club. Tell us a little bit about, about the athletic club specifically. Like, what was that place like? 33:17 HS: Well, the athletic club when I, when I was in it, when I was first able to get in it was as, uh, scouts. We were the boy scouts. And, uh, at that time there was a deal with little cars, little powered cars. Tether cars, they called them, were being raced, and we could race cars. Not to track cars, was the next phase of the hobby. They were track cars, and they were on a little tether. And you’d wind up the motor 33:45 EG: Ok. 33:45 HS: Or start a motor. They were just starting to build little teeny, teeny motors. And I got into that phase, anything with mechanics that I could afford I was in 33:55 EG: [laugh] You wanted it 33:58 HS: I wanted it. I was a gear head. But um, I got a head, a side track there, towards the um, towards the high school days. I used to mow lawns. I started off mowing jobs here in �Douglas. I took a couple of couple of lawn jobs in Saugatuck and it quickly blossomed, and, uh, the bank president saw me one day, mowing lawn, in his neighborhood. He called my dad who was, you know, the village clerk at the time or treasurer, and he always had bank business. And um, asked him if I could, would consider working in the bank. My dad said “Hell, yes.” 34:47 EG: [laugh] 34:47 MS: [laugh] 34:38 HS: So I ended up working in the bank, summers, and part time during the rest of the year. On statement days and on weekends. 34:45 EG: yeah. 34:46 HS: So that’s how I got doing that, I was doing that 34:47 EG: Who, who, who was your, who was your 34:48 HS: from about 16. 34:50 EG: Who was the owner of the bank? 34:53 HS: Lim Brady. He was the manager of the Saugatuck branch. There was also one in, in um, Fennville. And, up in Fennville, I think it was Al Hutchets, and he became a senator. I think he was a senator. I’m not sure how the bank, per se, got started. Somebody, obviously with money 35:13 EG: Right [laugh] 35:13 MS: [laugh] 35:13 HS: And it was called Fruit Grower’s State Bank. 35:15 EG: Right 35:17 HS: Which this is the fruit grower’s country big time in those days 35:20 EG: mm hm. W—ah, What do think attracted his attention? What do you think is about you that he called your dad to ask him to hire you, to do that? 35:27 HS: I must have been working hard 35:28 EG: yeah. �35:28 MS [laugh] 35:29 HS: And cheap 35:31 EG: You had your act together right? Industrious and 35:34 HS: Well, well I did do, I did paper route in Douglas, out of Douglas, uh, I could do that in the mornings because paper route was in the afternoon. I used to be able to spend time with the kids out on the lakeshore. I played some golf with the kids on the lakeshore for a while, when the weather was nice. I worked at the golf course 35:55 EG: mm hm 35:56 HS: uh, he asked us to help clean up places a few times and, most of the time, caddy. That was the only thing I ever did. I didn’t enjoy that too much, because that was a lot of work for the money, uh, I don’t know, anyway. There was a lot of little things we could be to make money, but the bank approach kind of stabilized some income. 36:15 EG: Yeah. 36:16 HS: And you didn’t go to work till 9, which I could still go hunting in the morning in the fall. Which is what we did at school. We used to go hunting before we could, duck hunting or something before. 36:27 EG: Yeah. 36:27 HS: [clear throat] so we had, we had a lot of opportunities if you wanted to work. The kids were, as it is now work, you can work at various entities. There was an entertainment center down on the water front, and on the weekends part now um (pause) um, the paddleboat was built down there, Dick Hoffen built the paddle boat original paddle boat for Saugatuck. He started that business. 36:51 EG: This was the Island Queen? 36:53 HS: Island Queen 36: 54 EG: Uh huh 36:55 HS: Queen One. Yup. 36:55 EG: Yeah. [laugh] 36:57 HS: So yeah. We had a lot of the things. There was kids that worked down there. An interesting thing came when I got into college, um, my dad could get me on the summer time �job routine after I quit the bank at 18. He could get me into the jobs in Douglas, Douglas Garage because the county, the county had a program for student replacement of regulars so the regulars could go on vacation. 37:24 EG: Yeah. 37: 24 HS: Because they had a hard, hard winter, you know? 37: 25 EG: Right 37: 27 HS: The regulars could go on vacation. They had a limit on how much money you could make, and, um, uh, I ended up working for my dad for couple summers for the county from as soon as I could get out in May to uh 37: 40 EG: yeah 37: 41 HS: End of September or early August. Then I had other jobs lined up. I could work the, work the farm with my dad. I picked fruit a lot of summers, even from a teenaged level. Cherries and apples and stuff. And, uh, I worked at a gas station out here which was Ray Owzakaski’s (?) gas station. There used to be a mobile station where the buses are, bus barn is. There was a big mobile station which crashed a couple of years. It finally went up and folded in and they condemned the building and took it all down. It was a school bus barn building. 38: 12 EG: yeah. 38:13 HS: That’d been a mobile gas station. 38:15 EG: Ok 38: 15 HS: And I worked there sum, uh, uh, summers. Part time. You know, a lot of weekends and whenever they needed me. And my dad could call me for the county because we’d have Rick’s on 31. Big Rick’s had picked up 38:27 EG: Yeah. 38:27 HS: Steel trucks and campers and whatever else, and he’d have to have somebody get to tow it away 38:33 EG: Right 38:34 HS: To get the road cleaned up again. 38:36 EG: What, what kind of work, say a little bit more about the work you did at the road commission working with your dad. �38:45 HS: Well with a truck the first year I came home, we’d had the tornado that came through and wiped out the Oval. And it went up through the dunes. It took out the lighthouse 38:58 EG: Right 38:58 HS: The original light house, and went over the dunes and out into Laketown Township. And it wiped out a family (pause) I’d have to think about that a little bit. It wiped out a family’s home out there and a baby was involved. And the baby they were looking for the baby and we, there was a lot of trouble there, you know. For a while, I was still in school. It was in early May. As soon as I got out of school I came home and the first thing that we did was got on tree crew, tree crew to clean up tree stuff and to help fix up those roads that way. So I’m driving trucks. 39:34 EG: Yeah 39:35 HS: Stuff I’ve never done before. Chainsaws 39:36 EG: yeah. 39:37 HS: Yeah. Two hand chainsaws and 39:39 EG: Right 39:39 HS: Stuff I never did before. Go do it anyway. So that was part of it. Then haul dirt, haul brush, haul loads. We used to use a lot of gravel from gravel pits in Allegan, to bring them out and fill gravel roads and fill potholes and fix things. One year, the second year, the bank and caved out on the lakeshore. Uh, it’s been repaired since. You know where the bank cave in is now? Where the road runs on the lakeshore? 40:06 EG: yeah. 40:06 HS: Do you know that? 40:08 EG: mmhmm 40:08 HS: Well before you get there, there was another spot that it caved in. Big time. 40:12 EG: Ok 40:13 HS: If you, um, just before 130, just north of 130th. Where that high spot is? That whole spot had caved away right to the front yard of those houses. And at that time, somebody got together and the ideas together to stabilize the bank. And we dumped everything we could dump down there. Rebuild that. So yeah, I did a lot of truck driving, that’s probably be a big thing. �40:38 EG: Right. 40:38 HS: I did that at the beach, and I did a whole lot of other things. 40:41 EG: Right yeah. 40:41 HS: Road side, road side pickup. That’s interesting. Road side pickup included the parks that ran on the side of the high way, the junk that now us groups do. 40:52 EG: yeah. 40:52 HS: Well anyway, we’d go along either shotgun or drive. We’d take turns. One guy sit on the bumper with a pitchfork. Really 41:04 EG: Right 41:04 HS: And you’d have the tarp and you’d hook it into the back of the truck. 41:07 EG: Right 41:07 HS: That was one of the things. Then you’d empty the barrels when you’d get to one of the road side parks. In the town here there’s one, and you know, township park and we’d hit the park system along the lakeshore. And we’d patch roads. That was another big job was patching, walk behind the truck and patch the little hole. So lot of, lot of stuff, but yeah, that was very interesting. Um, I ended up when I got back and I got to work at the club. Now this other side, but I worked at the club we had a road side pickup 41:39 EG: At the Rod and gun club? Yeah. 41:42 HS: We ended up when I was working when I joined the club, one on of the things they did was road side pickup. So I said “Oh I can help out because that’s my area. That’s the area I live in.” And, uh, so pretty soon the guy retired that was doing it, and I ended up doing it. So I’ve been coordinating that effort for the club for years now. But, it’s been twelve years. 42:03 EG: Old experiences come in handy 42:05 HS: Old, experiences picking up garbage 42:08 EG: Aside from working at the road commission when you were back in the summers from college, what where some of the others things that you got up to? 42:15 HS: I worked at the gas station. �42:18 EG: Yeah 42:19 HS: Yep, put me out there because Ray Orzawoski was a racer, and the Douglas race track he raced at. There were several local guys that thought they could race and there was a $25 night for it they could make it to the showing 42:34 EG: Say that name of the garage owner again 42:37 HS: Ray Orzawoski was co owner 42:40 EG: ok 42:40 HS: with Ross Jennings 42:41 EG: Or- or 42:42 HS: It was Jennings garage it was 42:42 EG: Ok. Gotcha. All right. 42:45 HS: And Ray was the mechanic, engine mechanic 42:47 EG: Got it. 42:47 HS: And he’d take engines out of cars he’d wreck one week and put them in another one and be ready to go the next week. 42:52 EG: Right 42:52 HS: And he was c, called the flying Polack because he had a pension for flying off the top end with no guard rails on the track. With no safety. And he’d fly off the top end and wind up in the woods out there. And, of course, that wrecked his car, so he had to find another one. So 34, 34 Ford Coups were piled up behind the place there. 43:15 EG: [laugh] that was the car of choice 43:15 MS: [laugh] 43:16 HS: yeah. 43:16 EG: Was that for him, or for most people? Was that common car? 43:19 HS: Well it was very �43:21 EG: common? 43:22 HS: Very common race car in those days 43:23 EG: Yeah 43:24 HS: But, um, but the situation was, Boss Jennings, the senior, and I can’t remember Floyd, Floyd Jennings had uh, had uh, retired. He had a hip problem, and he had retired to Arizona and stuff. So he, um, [clear throat] he gave it to his brother and Ray bought fifty/fifty of that station. His brother was, boss was uh, what was his name? I can’t remember his name, but they called him boss. And he was P. O.’d because Ray spent all his time working on the cars. And in those days they still serviced cars. 43:59 EG: Right 44:00 HS: So you went and pumped gas and cleaned the windshield and checked the oil and all that stuff. So I did that changed oils and made wrecker runs and stuff like that, just basically. But I got called away by my dad several times because a big wreck house trailer got smashed up here by Holland and pieces all over the road, the road blocked and that kind of thing. 44:22 EG: yeah 44:23 HS: Big steel truck in the south somehow got jack knifed and scattered steel, steel I remember that. I still got pieces of that around in the house. Little pieces, squares of steel. 44:37 EG: yeah. 44:37 HS: And they were laying all over place out there. And you had to, to pick the up, you couldn’t use gloves. You had to pick them up with your bare hands and pull them out of the road. 44:45 EG: wow 44:46 HS: And uh, anyway nice little welding 44:49 EG: Right. Good project pieces, right? 44:50 HS: good project pieces, right. 44:51 EG: [laugh] 44:54 HS: so anyway, that was, you know, I got called in to help that out so I could get paid on overtime, my dad could get the overtime, I mean, I could get the overtime. �45:01 EG: Yeah. 45:01 HS: And I gave him all the money so that whatever, uh, I needed for, 45:06 EG: For college 45:08 HS: college was 45:08 EG: yeah. 45:09 HS: was there 45:10 EG: All taken care of, yeah. Did you ever race any cars? Did you go to races? 45:13 HS: Well yeah, but that was a lot later. That was after I got out of college. 45:16 EG: ok 45:17 HS: That wasn’t here. That was after I got with Ford 45:19 EG: Ok. Gotcha. Uh, more, more about summer. I heard somewhere along the way you had worked at the Dock. 45:26 HS: yeah, I worked at the Dock, that was, that was one of those had three jobs going counting, counting the summer jobs. I ended up with the county one time, and I worked the gas station on certain weekends at night. That was only 8-5 or so. 45:43 EG: Ok 45:43 HS: In evenings I could for the Dock. And I had a good family member, some family member I would say, secondary family member 45:52 EG: yeah. 45:53 HS: Uh, in the bar. And I was only 18 or 19, I’m not sure which. I could do setups and stock the bar and all that sort of thing, had me checking age. And that was, that was ok, except, you know, here I kind of looked pretty young at the time. And you meet some guys that were half drunk trying to get into the Dock. 46:13 EG: mmhm 46:13 MS: yeah. �46:16 HS: And I had some, tough arguments a couple, three times. And the boss would send me, the boss was a chicken. 46:24 EG: [laugh] put you in the line of fire so 46:26 HS: put me in the line of fire. I’m out there doing that. 46:29 EG: Yeah. What, just describe a little bit what the Dock was like uh, 46:34 HS: It was a very good restaurant. Good steaks. Good prime ribs and stuff. And it was at the dock level where the boats where you’d walk and the windows, well the windows weren’t all open but there was a couple of them. The boats could come in, but basically that was under control, but the interesting part was that, some of the boats, well, those were party days. Some of the boats would hire the band. And there was a boat that I always wanted to get on. And the job business kind of got me out of right there. There, do you know what a PT boat is? 47:09 EG: mmhm. Yeah. From world war two 47:10 HS: From World War Two 47:11 EG: The Mosquito Boats 47:12 HS: There was a World War Two PT boat coming in from Wisconsin. The owner was supposedly Slits Brewry (?). And he was coming in, had a jeep on back, on the back, and he had a plane on the back with, with a davit, so he could drop the jeep on the dock and the jeep would come up the dock to buy groceries, there were a lot of little grocery stores in those days 47:34 EG: Yeah. 47:34 HS: And a beautiful blonde with a monkey, a real monkey on the windshield of his jeep, a purple jeep 47:43 EG: [laugh] 47: 43 MS: [laugh] 47:44 HS: Or pink. Not sure purple 47:46 EG: Yeah 47:49 HS: And this blonde was a knock out. And, uh, she was a good passenger. And everybody knew about her. 47:50 EG: Toured around in this jeep. �47:57 HS: Too bad there weren’t more cameras in town in those days. Nobody had any but the little brownie box cameras, you know? 48:02 EG: Yeah, I’ve never seen a photo of this before. It sounds pretty entertaining. 48:05 HS: Very entertaining. She’d come up and, you know, wave at people 48:09 EG: They’d come up with some frequency then? From across the lake? 48:12 HS: They were, they’d come once, and I’m not sure about years even. But one year they came a couple of times. They’d stay for a period of time. I’m not sure if they were dock limited or if they were just limited, because one time I saw them, I saw him put the, uh, (?) in water, you know like a piper cub 48:30 EG: Mmhm. Yeah 48:31 HS: And it, it had a little bit more power. It had the big the big floats on it. 48:35 EG: Yeah. 48:36 HS: He’d put that in the water with the davit, he’d hook it on up to the 48:38 EG: mmhm. Yeah. 48:39 HS: Put it in the water. And he’d go putzing up the river, pick it up, uh, way up above the bridge and try to get up in the air and take off to stay away from the town because he took forever to get in the air. 48:52 EG: Yeah. That’s a lot of drag. 48:54 HS: yeah. Do you remember, do you remember the Eddy Deveter(?) story with CV? Do you remember that story? 49:00 EG: I’m not sure of that one. 49:03 HS: Well, at that time, you showed the other night, that, uh, hotel on the side of the lake? 49:11 EG: yeah. 49:15 HS: With the story with the party? What was it? Blue Moon? 49:20 EG: The Blue Tempo? �49:20 MS: Blue Tempo 49:21 HS: Blue Tempo? 49:21 EG: Yeah. The Blue Tempo Bar? 49:22 HS: The Blue Tempo was originally owned by Eddy Deveter (?) It was the Ed, was the Ed Mar Hotel 49:28 EG: Ok. Right. Ok. 49:29 HS: That was the Ed mar Hotel (?) 49:30 EG: Right. 49:30 HS: Well Eddy, Deveter (?) his name was, 49:33 EG: yeah. 49:33 HS: Ended up building the place over on the other side, after they sold that. But, over on the other side meaning Park Street. Off of Park Street. But it burned immediately. Anyway, um, the um, I had a CB, they’re a pusher, plane 49:52 EG: Ok. Yeah. 49:53 HS: You can look that up 49:54 EG: I’ve seen that. 49:55 HS: look that up. 49:55 EG: No, I know what you’re talking about. 49:56 HS: Ok. 49:57 EG: Exactly. Yeah. 49:58 HS: It was a pusher. 49:59 EG: Yeah. �49:59 HS: And it flown like a rock. Cause it took forever to get that thing going. And I used to fish, periodically, out there on the, when I had time. This was not, uh, concurrent, you know, let’s say with working 50:11 EG: Right 50:12 HS: Ok 50:13 EG: Yeah, yeah [throat clear] 50:16 HS: In probably the earlier years he was there, well it had been it the earlier forties he came back from the war. He was a war vet. And he’d fly up the river and take off, and then he’d come down and he’d come roaring through under the bridge, which was a short wind rock. And to get the thing into the air when we’d have north west winds over bald head and in that area. He had to rip his tail off for it. He had such a horrible roar all through the valley here getting that thing up in the air. He flew that a lot, and Jack’s got some good pictures some good memories of that. Cause he was around and saw some of that. I don’t remember all of the years now. 50:57 EG: Ok 50:57 HS: He was around for two or three years, and he sold that hotel, and I never did know about that. I knew the guy that owned it. Blue Tempo was owned by Toad Davis 51:08 EG: yeah. 51:09 HS: [clear throat] 51:11 EG: Yeah. Have a drink of water there. Have a drink 51:13 HS: yeah. Uh. Toad Davis ended up living right behind me. He had a 51:19 EG: Ok 51:20 HS: His mother built a house, his mother, his mother built her house up on Water Street 51:23 EG: Ok. 51:24 sounds of water pouring 51:30 EG: Toad’s come up in a few interviews 51:32 MS: Yeah 51:33 EG: Uh, kind of talk about the jazz scene here in Saugatuck �51:38 HS: Well there was uh, 51:39 EG: Acts he had in there 51:40 HS: Yeah. There were a lot of bi- bi- genders around here in those days. A lot of them. 51:47 EG: Yeah 51:47 HS: And it was not coming out like it was recently you know, it wasn’t so obvious. 51:54 EG: hmm 51:55 HS: Era that we’re in now. There is, you know 51:57 EG: more openness 51:57 MS: Yeah 51:58 EG: more openness about 52:00 HS: openness 52:00 EG: gay people 52:01 HS: yeah. So that was, there were, um, and there was a lot of entertainment needed, you know, they were willing to do it. Toad, Toad Davis was, like I say, nicest guy. He wanted, I knew him, but he was older than I was. He was a war vet too that came back, Korean War, probably talking most the 52:21 EG: Ok. 52:22 HS: guys that I knew of 52:24 EG: yea 52:24 HS: They were older than I, but, you know, not that far. 52:28 EG: Similar age grouping 52:29 HS: You know back when we were in high school, there were guys that, you know, my, my um, I called him my mentor for basketball. I just copied his style and ended up with his shirt number. He was a tall, lanky guy. He and I are still in touch with the Facebook. Um, long, lanky �guy. Ran kind of awkwardly like I think I do (laugh), and you know, same kind of style baskets and, I had a secret hook that I learned from watching him. 53:05 EG: uh huh. Yeah. 53:06 HS: And anyway, it was, it was fun to, uh, to see some of those guys came back and talked to us while we were still in school and gave clues, you know. They’d been in and out. 53:15 EG: yeah 53:16 HS: of the army. They’d got their three years in and were out. 53:18 EG: Yeah. 53:20 HS: So it was fun to hear those stories. (?) a couple of those guys. 53:23 EG: Yeah. Yeah. So. Um, yeah. Kind of thinking back to the dock. You mentioned, that’s a great story about the PT boat and 53:34 HS: Well the PT boat ended up coming and going, and one night, see this was all toward the end of summer on the day was a big shoot out. Fourth of July was one. 53:47 EG: mmhmm 53:47 HS: Labor Day was too 53: 49 EG: yeah. 53:49 HS: Uh, those boats would get together and have big parties and everything going and um, they were going to have the band, after we closed, go on the boat out 54:02 EG: mmhm. Yeah. Out, out into the, out into Kalamazoo Lake? 54:05 HS: out in the river 54:05 EG: out in the river? Out to Lake Michigan? 54:06 HS: Out to Lake Michigan 54:08 EG: yeah 54:09 HS: And this was starting at like two, three o’clock in the morning because my job ended up right about then after clean up. And then I had to go to work at, I think it was seven or eight in the morning. I don’t remember now. At the gas station �54:22 EG: yeah. 54:23 HS: Uh, and I was whipped after two, three weeks of this kind of schedule 54:27 EG: yeah. 54:27 HS: And, uh, so I didn’t go 54:29 EG: did, didn’t go out on the boat. 54:30 HS: Didn’t go out in that boat. 54:33 EG: [laugh] hard, hard to hold responsibility you had there. Sounds like. 54:37 HS: Well it was a tough choice. That was one of my toughest choices in those days. 54:42 EG: [laugh] prob, probably not easy to tell your dad you’re not going to go to work the next day or 54:48 HS: Well it wasn’t it wasn’t Sunday night. It was a Saturday night. 54:52 EG: yeah. Ok. 54:53 HS: So my weekends were I worked on the gas station. 54:54 EG: Ok 54:55 HS: Saturday and Sunday 54:56 EG: yeah. 54:56 HS: the daylight hours 54:58 EG: yeah. Right. What, uh, what were I mean, what were some of the things you saw, or in what were parties like or what 55:07 HS: Well, one of the things that was in the dock that, that was pretty common was a lot of drunkeness, and a lot of semisexual activity. 55:15 EG: Ok. 55:16 MS: [laugh] �55:18 HS: I mean they weren’t, uh, weren’t shy. People weren’t shy in those days. 55:20 EG: Right. 55:21 HS: If some guy was putting the make on this girl and had her pretty well ready for, uh, operation, little, uh, 55:28 EG: Ok 55:29 HS: And the boss saw me and “Show some— got get him” 55:35 slapping noises against hard surface (table?) 55:36 HS: And I got over there and take him apart 55:39 MS: [laugh] 55:39 EG: yeah. Tough job as 18, 19 year old, right? You know, “Excuse me, sir” 55:45 HS: yeah. 55:46 EG: Did you throw them out or did you just tell them act more appropriate or? 55:49 HS: I, I, I said that’s not appropriate or something to that effect. And I got him to back off and take her out of there. 55:59 EG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of, kind of wild times. What were, uh, at the, oh, at the Docks specifically? What did people drink in those days? 56:09 HS: Seven and Seven was big. Switz beer was big and so was Stroll’s 56:16 EG: These were on draft or bottles? 56:18 HS: bottles. We didn’t do draft. 56:19 EG: yeah. 56:21 HS: But I, I could mix the seven and sevens. Gin buck was good. Do you know what a gin buck is? Gin 56:25 EG: I don’t 56: 26 HS: Gin and tonic �56:27 EG: Ok. All right. 56:27 MS: [laugh] 56:28 HS: Gin buck, uh, were common. Yeah. I could do the mix ups 56:32 EG: yeah. 56:34 HS: But not put the liquor in. 56:34 MS: Ah 56:35 EG: Got cha. Got cha. 56:36 HS: And serve the people. So whenever I was not stocking and getting empty beer bottles, I was putting cold ones in. 56:42 EG: Right 56:44 HS: Uh, doing everything. 56:45 EG: Yeah. Where were folks from that were, that were in there summer time? 56:48 HS: There were a lot of people from Illinois. Uh, it was rare to find people from Chic, from the east side of the state. But one of the girls I met was from Dearborn. 57:00 EG: Ok. Yeah. 57:02 HS: But not very many. Not very many. A lot of them out of Allegan, Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, and Chicago, obviously, Chicago, oh and Indiana. That was big. And those motorcycles they talked about [throat clear]. All I remember is my wife’s from Detroit, but she came over here with me a lot in our early years, and she remembers seeing a lot of motorcycles in the sixties and seventies too. We got married in fifty-eight or so, fifty-nine (pause). But I was thinking. We used to run into, when I was motorcycle riding, we used to run into these Bless the Motorcycle rallies. These guys get together by the hundreds, these, clubs. They’d go to party some places. And it just depended on where they decided to party. You know, it’s like, they’d do a preview, and I’d run into them a couple of times up north. More, more than, probably three times at least up north. I know they used to come to Saugatuck once in a while. 58:02 EG: yeah 58:02 HS: you could get a big, big gang 58:03 EG: right �58:04 HS: Otherwise they were all impromptu. Uh, used to work came over on his own, so you know, the guys that rode the motorcycles were here by the fifties, sixties was the magnet. 58:17 EG: Hm, that was, yeah, we heard that from a few people that that was the big motorcycle place there or destination. 58:24 HS: yeah. 58: 25 EG: yeah. For sure. Were there other places like, sounds like once you were older that you went out to aside from working at the dock that you go to and see friends or have drinks and listen to music? 58:35 HS: Well, as soon as, um, I dated a couple of couple of different gals, and there was a dancehall down by Paw Paw. 58:45 EG: Ok. 58:47 HS: That was a nice thing. There was another one up at um, Spring Lake. Dancehalls. These were World Wars two ex- bands and/ or new/ old bands. Kind of rejuvenating. 59:00 EG: yeah. 59:01 HS: And those dance halls were, were fun to go to. At least I didn’t dance much but 59:05 EG: Yeah. That was through (?) music 59:09 HS: I, I liked the music yeah. I was very much in favor of the music. Still am. 59:14 EG: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Uh, what about some of the musical acts you had? You mentioned the band going out on the boat at two o’clock in the morning at the dock. What were some of the acts you had there at the dock? 59:25 HS: uh 59:25 EG: Or kinds of music you had? What were they playing? 59:29 HS: I couldn’t tell you. You know? It, it, it was more or less popular. And a lot of it was World War Two based. 59:35 EG: Ok 59:36 HS: And these bands at least, at least one of the people I know, um, was a piano player and he stayed there full time. Lived, lived here in Saugatuck afterwards �59:48 EG: Ok 59:48 HS: He, he bought a place, the other place was 59:50 EG: Do you remember his name or act was? 59:52 HS: His name was Bill Johnson 59:54 EG: Ok. 59:54 MS: Ok. 59:55 HS: His name was Johnson, yeah. He’s long gone, but he bought a place out in the woods by us, and I knew him. We got permission to go, to go and hunt out on his property because he had nice property out there. In fact I got a deer out on his property 1:00:07 EG: Wow. [laugh] 1:00:08 HS: Oh yeah. That um, that was kind of nice and then, I don’t know if you hear this but there was a group of band players [clear throat] who used to stop on their way back to Chicago, or, specifically, came to play at the What Not Inn 1:00:27 EG: Ok. 1:00:28 HS: And one of the band players was an orchestra pit band player. These aren’t top names all the time. 1:00:34 EG: Sure. 1:00:35 HS: But she always would play with her back to the orchestra-to the, the audience. 1:00:40 EG: didn’t want that, wasn’t used to all that action. 1:00:45 HS: She had her friends, partners, they were, uh L, uh, anyways she was down here for quite a few years. 1:00:52 EG: Ok. And what years was this? 1:00:54 HS: hmm? 1:00:56 EG: What years would that have been roughly? (pause) 1:01:02 HS: Would have been into the sixties. �1:01:03 EG: Ok. 1:01:04 HS: Could have been sixties. My, my, a lot of my experience here left me in sixty-five ‘cause we went out of the country for a few years. 1:01:12 EG: yeah. 1:01:12 HS: That’s a big hole in my history around this town. 1:01:16 EG: Gotcha. So I have to clarify just some stuff. So you graduated here in 53 and went to Indiana and went off to school or back, back and forth in the summers? 1:01:25 HS: Yep 1:01:25 EG: Stories with that, uh, graduated with, moved back to this area, or, what, what happened? 1:01:32HS: No, I went to work for Ford Motor Company in Dearborn. 1:01:36 EG: Oh, o. 1:01:37 HS: Dearborn Engineering. 1:01:39 EG: Ok. At the headquarters there, or? 1:01:40 HS: Well it was the engineering center 1:01:42 EG: Ok. Yeah. 1:01:44 HS: I wasn’t at headquarters till later years. 1:01:47 EG: Ok. Gotcha. And then uh, so you were travelling coming back here to spend time with family and spend time here. 1:01:53 HS: yeah, yeah. We had a lot of family around here and they were, they were in their senior years of course. 1:02:00 EG: Ok. 1:02:00 HS: We were losing them. 1:02:02 EG: how, how often did you make the trip from Dearborn to here, like to the west side of the state? �1:02:07 HS: I’d do that every two weeks if I could 1:02:10 EG: Yeah. 1:02:10 HS: We had other friends to visit. My wife’s family was a large family, so we had a lot of things to do over there. 1:02:18 EG: Yeah. And they were from Dearborn? That area? Detroit area? 1:02:21 HS: Uh, yeah, Lincoln Park or wester Dearborn area. And they were a close knit family. Big family. So we had, we had a lot of places to go and do things. When we went out of the country for a while, that was, we were gone four years. Um, the kids were getting to the point to see Grandpa and Grandma, and I said I think it’s time to get back home, so. I cut my overseas potential overseas stay and down 1:02:50 EG: Where, where were you now? 1:02:52 HS: I was in Venezuela. But I was being asked to go to Ecuador, and uh, 1:02:57 EG: yeah 1:02:58 HS: Chile 1:02:59 EG: All right. 1:02:59 HS: And I think in Argentina. In that time it was, it was sort of stable but it was starting to get into that big hiccup with, with the economy. 1:03:09 EG: mmhm. Yeah. For sure. So you’d come over here ever couple, once or twice a month you’d make the drive over. And then, uh, did you spend extended time here during the summer or, you know? Vacations? 1:03:21 HS: No. no. When I was travelling I could bring my wife and kids over, and they’d stay with my folks. And then they could do that, and I could fly out of Grand Rapids and go to Arizona or wherever I had to go. California. But, uh, I was in testing. So that meant working with the vehicles, you know, wherever I needed to be used. 1:03:42 EG: Right. 1:03:43 HS: How I needed to be used. 1:03:44 EG: Right. Yeah. Very interesting. Tell us a little bit about your wife and your children. �1:03:51 HS: Well my wife was, I met her at Ford. She was a secretary in the Berkley division which I hired into initially. And uh, we all, had a big party, a lot of fun went on for years there. Skiing, actually. And uh, snow skiing that is. And, uh, she had been coming over to here and going to Florida and doing some of the things that some of my friends had, so. It was really natural. And we had, um, three girls. And they all grew up coming over here regularly. They used to call the original drug store here in Douglas the candy store. It was Jack and Eva Tyler, took over from Norton when Norton’s, did you ever hear Norton name before? 1:04:41 EG: Heard that name 1:04:43 HS: Norton had the, the drug store. Big two story, on the corner. Right down the block here. Just, just right down the block. Just, the post office is past here. And then the next street is the, I don’t even know what that store is, that building on the left is now, but that building was the new drug store. The old drug store was the next two story. And 1:05:14 MS: Ok. 1:05:14 HS: And, and Mr. Norton’s drug store used to have a soda bar and everything. But there was something in half of it that I don’t remember what it was. But when he died, the store, they sold it. And I think the Catholic Church bought it and put it into a Catholic School. I think that’s the order of things. And Jack and Eva Tyler bought the drug store part, rights, and they built the building next door. And that became the candy store. All it was, was candy and papers, and that’s where I worked out of, the drug, bring those papers and stuff. 1:05:56 EG: Ok 1:05:56 MS: Oh. 1:05:57 HS: But I remember, when I was in my downtown years, uh, sitting up at the counter and getting a chocolate sundae at the Norton’s drug store there. 1:06:07 EG: Yeah. 1:06:08 HS: Like a (?) drug. And finally the Saugatuck drugstore duplicated that system years later when they built the, rebuilt the back of the store. They put a counter in there. You ever, I don’t know if they still do that or not. 1:06:26 EG: I don’t know. I haven’t been there to see it yet. 1:06:27 HS: They put, they put an old fashioned drug store counter in there. 1:06:31 MS: That’s awesome 1:06:32 EG: yeah. �1:06:32 HS: So it isn’t, you know. Ice cream sundaes and ice cream (?) stuff. So anyway we, the kids know that, and we took them, we used to go to Gosemer Lake swimming because that was semi, well. It was not public. It was private. And they started charging ten cents for a person to go in there. And you could go swimming there, and it was calm, and the water was warm 1:07:01EG: Mmhm. Yeah. Yeah. That seems like it was quite the destination those years. Gosemer Lake resort. Yeah. 1:07:10 HS: Mhm. It was very popular. 1:07:11 EG: What, uh, what was your wife’s name? What was her 1:07:14 HS: Paula 1:07:14 EG: Paula. And her maiden name? 1:07:16 HS: Martin 1:07:17 EG: Martin. 1:07:18 HS: Mmhm 1:07:19 EG: And then your daughters, you said you had two daughters 1:07:20 HS: Three 1:07:20 EG: Three. Three daughters. And what are there names? 1:07:23 HS: Sandra, Julie, and Christine. 1:07:28 EG: Are they, are they on the east side of the state still, or did they settle in other places? 1:07:30 HS: Well they, uh, Sandra, the oldest, she lives in the Detroit area now. She’s in northern Detroit. 1:07:35 EG: Ok. 1:07:36 HS: Uh by Wayne county, Wayne, uh, Wayne uh, State University. 1:07:41 EG: Oh, ok. 1:07:42 HS: And she’s had a lot of career choices and moved around quite a bit. �1:07:48 EG: Right. 1:07:49 HS: She’s still not married. And the middle one, Julie, she has a place out here in Douglas, on the Douglas lakeshore. 1:07:56 EG: Oh. 1:07:57 HS: And she brings all, the whole family together when she’s here. And then Christina’s in Florida, Gainesville. And she has a place, uh, in Saint Augustine, so when we go to Florida we, uh, have them making a big loop down there with our friends and family. Sandy was in Saint Aug, Saint Augustine also. 1:08:17 EG: yeah 1:08:17 HS: And then she was in, uh, Fort Lauderdale for quite a while too. 1:08:22 EG: mmhm. 1:08:22 HS: And that was a nice, nice area to go visit in the winter time. We’ve been managing to make a tour for years and, we’ve kind of slowed things down the way things are going now. 1:08:32 EG: right. Yeah. For sure 1:08:34 HS: Grandkids and college, that changed our timetable entirely. Couldn’t just go on Spring Break anymore. There was no such thing as a spring break. They’re all on spring break all the time it seems like. 1:08:46 EG: right. Different schedules I know where you’re at. For sure. 1:08:50 HS: you, you agree 1:08:51 MS: Oh yeah 1:08:51 EG: mmhm 1:08:53 HS: It’s weird, trying to, trying to Spring Break time. 1:08:57 MS: No, every place does it at a different time so. Yeah. Few different schools here, and it feels like it’s constantly spring break 1:09:03 HS: yeah. 1:09:04 MS: For different schools. [laugh] �1:09:06 HS: So that um, pretty much covers uh, those years. Ford years are a whole thing that I don’t intend to get into. 1:09:15 EG: Maybe for, maybe for another interview we could sit down and talk about that. Uh, thinking about summers. Thinking about change over time. We touched on it a little bit. You mentioned, um, you mentioned, um, the sort of LGBT population and gay folks 1:09:35 HS: more forward 1:09:35 EG: in the community and, more, more out in the open. Do you remember much, you talked about, uh, Toad Davis’ place the Blue Tempo and that, what was, what was kind of the community reactions to that, or were there really none? 1:09:49 HS: Just none, yeah really that I’m aware of, let’s put it that way. 1:09:53 EG: yeah. 1:09:54 HS: There may have been a few people offended but, you know, we saw a lot of them, uh in our younger days. Palling around here. Um, I never saw anything that was obsessively, um, outward let’s say. The only thing you might want to find out about, have you ever seen any pictures of the conglomeration of little tents down by the Oval? 1:10:20 EG: I’ve not. 1:10:23 MS: No 1:10:23 EG: I’m not sure what you’re, not sure what you mean there. 1:10:25 HS: Gosh I wish I had a picture. North of the Oval, while it was still Dennyson property 1:10:31 EG: Right 1:10:33 HS: They had to block off the whole area. They had a gate because those guys would take off and put their little tents up 1:10:39 EG: Is this, like a nude bathing area? 1:10:41 HS: Nude bathing area 1:10:42 EG: yeah 1:10:43 HS: big section all the way down to what now is part of Saugatuck. That whole area. �1:10:48 EG: yeah 1:10:49 HS: And the dunes were covered with them. 1:10:50 EG: Ok 1:10:50 HS: With these little tents 1:10:52EG: Yeah 1:10:54 HS: Little two man tents 1:10:55 EG: Right 1:10:56 HS: And they were in the water without suits. Hugging and kissing and the whole works. Quite a bunch of them. 1:11:03 EG: Right 1:11:03 HS: And it was a little bit upsetting to me because we were boaters at that time. 1:11:07 EG: yeah 1:11:08 HS: And, uh, but they stayed together. They were to themselves. They didn’t seem to, that I know of 1:11:15 EG: yeah 1:11:15 HS: Cause any issues. But um, we, uh, had our kids out there. You know, three girls are kind of interested in what was going on in those days. So the binoculars 1:11:27 EG: Right [laugh] One more challenge from the water with kids is, hard to answer questions 1:11:34 HS: Yeah, I don’t know how we explained it. You know. Kids, kids got to expect it. Cause we went once and then we, you know, every weekend we could we’d get out on the lake and go for a ride 1:11:46 EG: And this would have been in the early 1960’s? Late 1950’s? 1:11:48 HS: Well 1:11:48 EG: What kind of time period �1:11:49 HS: Well Sandy was born in 59, it would have been late 60’s 1:11:54 EG: yeah 1:11:54 HS: Oh not, excuse me, it couldn’t we were out of town. Out of the country. Late (pause), early seventies probably would have been the latest we would have seen that. Cause when we came back from Venezuela, uh, I got a boat. We had a house trailer before then. I sold it, and we got a boat, and, um we took some travel things, and we got in the boat about 70. So early 70’s. And um, that’s when we were out there. And the kids were bigger then. A lot bigger. 1:12:29 EG: Yeah. 1:12:29 HS: you know, teenagers 1:12:30 EG: right 1:12:30 HS: Getting to be, the oldest one was 1:12:34 EG: yeah 1:12:34HS: You know and just about the second was. So we had that boat for a little while and then soon they were in college. And I couldn’t afford boats and cars and colleges and 1:12:41 EG: Sure 1:12:31 MS: Yeah. That makes sense 1:12:46 EG: That, that happens. Do you remember, was there talk about that in town, the, the nude 1:12:51 HS: you know, I can’t say that we were in town 1:12:54EG: yeah 1:12:54 HS: because we were out of town in the 60’s. 1:12:56 EG: Right 1:12:57 HS: And then in the 70’s and 80’s we were family. The only time we came over was to stay at my folks place and 1:13:02 EG: Right 1:13:03 HS: And they were still alive then. �1:13:05 EG: yeah. 1:13:05 HS: My dad died in 72, so we were through the 70’s pretty much at that house up on the hill, and we ended up selling it in the 80’s. 1:13:16 EG: yeah. Very interesting. Wealth of, wealth of information. Did you have any questions that you wanted to ask? Was there anything? 1:13:24 MS: Um 1:13:25 EG: We talked about a lot of different things here today 1:13:28 MS: Yeah. Yeah. 1:13:30 HS: Well I, um, got a little out of line with some of them, but thinking 1:13:34 EG: Not at all 1:13:34 HS: the sequence of events 1:13:35 EG: Not at all. 1:13:37HS: But, um, you know we used to have a lot of interesting, interesting things going on in Douglas. We used to have dancing. That was fun. 1:13:43 MS: Oh really? 1:13:44 HS: I remember bringing my first girlfriend over to show to my folks, go square dancing. 1:13:53 EG: Where was that? Where did that happen? 1:13:54 HS: On the tennis courts down there. 1:13:55 EG: Ok. Just right on the, right out in town 1:13:57 HS: Yeah, I don’t even think they’ve got tennis now anymore. Or maybe they do 1:13:58 MS: Don’t think so? 1:14:01 HS: I think they tore that one out too 1:14:02 MS: yeah. �1:14:02 EG: I think so 1:14:04 HS: Geez! 1:14:05 EG: yeah. Changes. Yeah. 1:14:06 MS: Yeah. 1:14:07 HS: they really, I don’t approve of what they did to the park to be honest with you. It’s playground now. I don’t know if that’s what it was meant to be or not, but that’s what they wanted (pause) my kids liked tennis! They all got into tennis. They learned at Douglas Park out if you, have you ever been out to Douglas Park? 1:14:28 MS: mm, I think I’ve gone by it, but I haven’t, like driven past it. 1:14:32 HS: Now it’s going to, now it’s got, what do you call it? Wiffle--- pickle ball. 1:14:36 EG: Oh right! 1:14:36 HS: They got pickle ball courts out there. They switched to pickle ball. I guess somebody donated a lot of money to convert the tennis courts. 1:14:42 EG: It’s a popular sport, it’s really taken off 1:14:45 MS: yeah. 1:14: 45 HS: It’s popular, and the courts were not well done to begin with. So I agreed with that. At one point I was going to try to help out, try to get it straightened out for them but it didn’t seem like they wanted to do it. 1:15:00EG: Um, well one of the questions I like as we’re wrapping up, uh, this interview today is thinking about, we’ve talked so much about the past, but thinking about the future. So, we will be saving these interviews for a long time. Imagine someone listening to this fifty or more years from now. What are some things you’d like them to know about your life and about the community right now? 1:15:24 HS: hmm. Well, I wouldn’t mind somebody remembering I was here, but I know that won’t happen. 1:15:35 EG: Anything in particular that you might imagine someone in the future would want to know or, you know about life in the, life in this place 1:15:46 HS: Well, I guess I want to have them respect their heritage that they inherited, you know? The town that it was, and the hard life that people had to have to get here, to make this �place happen. I mean, these people were all pioneers the people that started this town Douglas in 18, I have a picture in my stuff that my dad, it was 1860 that the town was incorporated. My dad is holding the original incorporation books. 1:16:11 EG: yeah 1:16:12 MS: wow 1:16:12 HS: My dad held that, and they had a centennial, centennial, uh, ceremony right in Douglas. 1:16:17 EG: Right 1:16:17 MS: Oh yeah 1:16: 18 HS: at the time and Tid Lane (?) wrote a lot about about that in one of her books. And, uh, but there was Schulz boys, picture of the Schulz boys. Well there were my dad’s uncles. I know all, knew all of them. I saw all of them. 1:16:36 EG: yeah. 1:16:36 HS: At various times. There were a lot of Schulz’s around. And I wouldn’t mind being one of them. Some of those guys were, were working hard. Schulz was a big name in this area a long time ago. There’s still a bunch of them here. It’s really hard sorting it out. My daughter is doing a, um, has started doing a, what do you call it? The family 1:17:00 MS: genealogy 1:17:00 EG: family tree 1:17:00 HS: genealogy study. And we’ve gone to cemeteries and tried to sort it out. It, it’s very difficult to uh, keep it going. I’ve recently found a book that my dad kept records of for the village of Douglas while he was clerk. And I’ve talked to Mary about that last night. Uh, I’m going to keep the book. It’s part of our family, but it’s got stuff the village of Douglas should be interested in. 1:17:24 MS: Oh nice 1:17:24 EG: mmhm 1:17:26 HS: And I’ve talked to the village of Douglas and they don’t have any interest in keeping court records like that. 1:17:32 EG: right �1:17:32 MS: interesting 1:17:33 HS: So, you guys are it 1:17:34 EG: That’d be something interesting to have a look at to consider scanning or just making notes about what it is 1:17:39 HS: Oh that’s what Mary said, so I’m going to make an appointment with Mary here as soon as I can. 1:17:44 EG: That’d be great. 1:17:44 HS: And, uh, loan it to her for whatever they take, but it’s, it’s uh, it’s like a little diary, you know, like. I was surprised to find it. It had been in our stuff for years, but my brother in law had taken over the old house, and cleaned out the old house, he and my sister. And my sister died not that long after that. She was the family historian. And when she died, he, I don’t know. He pulled switches with the houses. I don’t know, but he switched with his, his mother had died about the same time. And they switched houses with his mother’s kids, kids’ in Grand Rapids, his, you know, nephew. But he switched house, because they were living in Grand Rapids, and in the process all this got stored somewhere. And one of the places was a storage bin. So they had to clear the storage bin out and that’s where this stuff came from. 1:18:45 EG: Ok 1:18:45 HS: A couple of years ago. 1:18:48 EG: yeah 1:18:48 HS: but there’s still some major Schulz background stuff that is missing. My dad, we had a special book with all that stuff. 1:18:54 MS: Oh 1:18:55 EG: right 1:18:56 HS: Because my sister was the historian, I said you keep it. That disappeared. 1:19:00 EG: Hasn’t turned up yet. 1:19:02 HS: yup 1:19:03 EG: yeah that’s always challenging, for sure. �1:19:06 HS: I’ve got pieces of stuff because there were other family members and I’ve got bits and pieces. And somebody turned in some stuff here that I didn’t have. Somebody else did, and I don’t know where it came from. And that was Uncle Jack’s tavern up here. He had a tavern, and you know I mentioned my aunt went to the war effort? 1:19:23 EG: mmhmm 1:19:23 MS: mmhmm 1:19:23 HS: Well after the war she came back, here, and in 46 they bought Bill Schulz’s restaurant, and they couldn’t get a liquor license because it was too small. So he built a place and got his liquor license across the street. And that became Douglas Tavern. Which became Annie’s Woodshed years later when he died. 1:19:44 MS: I see 1:19:45 HS: And, uh, anyway 46, and you know, there’s a lot of that stuff she brought him back, you know from the war effort. She got him some place. 1:19:53 EG: Very interesting 1:19:54 MS: Yeah 1:19:55 EG: Lots of, lots of change over time. Kind of a final question—biggest changes you’ve seen in the community, and maybe things that have just remained consistent. What have you seen that’s changed since you were a child here? 1:20:11HS: Oh, everything. The town was a ghost town in a lot of ways. Buildings were all old, and the whole area in general, I would say has profited from the LGBT movement to some extent. Because what’s happened, all these old forty acre farms, several of them have been split up and sold and what have you, and to my knowledge a lot of them are being taken over by these mixed, mixed couples, pairs. 1:20:42 EG: mmhmm, right. 1:20:42 HS: Not necessarily mixed, I don’t think. They can be mixed in that one can call it a main residence, and the other one can call it not be a main residence. 1:20:53 MS: Ok 1:20:54 HS: And the pairs make money, and they (?) and old forty acre farm 1:21:03 EG: yeah. �1:21:03 HS: And it’s nice and robust again, and they’re not making any money necessarily, but they’re making money elsewhere. I, we met a lot, a couple of them, pilots for example, and guys that are making some pretty good money. Lawyers. Two guys have bought my cottage. One was a dentist, and I don’t remember what the other one was now, but they were professionals. And, uh, they bought our cottage, you know, so they can have it on this tax roll thing. You guys have probably hear of it, haven’t you? That the locals, second house, you pay full tax on it? 1:21:34 EG: homestead tax. Homestead tax. 1:21:38 HS: The homestead tax, there’s only good for the homestead. So you can declare, one guy declares it his homestead. And then the other does in the other place. It’s kind of common in a lot of places now 1:21:50 EG: Interesting. 1:21:52 HS: So that gets them different, you know, a farm a forty-acre farm is big money for a lot of people. In my grandparents’ days, a lot of people, and they could make a living off of it. Fruit and what have you. Not so anymore. 1:22:08 EG: What, what remains, what’s something that’s consistent that you see that’s really that remains much the same about this place? When you grew up and came here in the 1950’s and 60’s and 70’s 1:22:22 HS: I think it’s still the same in, the uh, intent to entertain. Beach is, of course, our big entertainment. Uh, I’m sorry to see things like the Big Pavilion never go rejuvenated because that was a major, uh, maybe the town couldn’t have handled it. I don’t know. South Haven had one. It burned. Uh, there’s been Pavilions like this in other towns up the street. Uh, that’s not a form of entertainment anymore, but could be. I don’t know. You know, when I was a kid, I went to go to those jam sessions, I saw Louis Armstrong a few times, well a couple times, and other band, big bands. And that was fun too you know, and kids go to band places like that now. Even bigger crowds now. So, is that what we want? Apparently the town didn’t want that because we had the big jam sessions here. Do you remember the Newport Jazz Festivals? In the old days? Did you ever hear of that? 1:23:29 EG: Read about them, sure. Yeah. 1:23:30 HS: Well, ok. I read about them because, because Playboy was always writing about those and all the musicians that went to those festivals. And Saugatuck was trying to to do the same thing. And they threw them out of town. You’ve probably gotten into the history enough to see that. 1:23:48 EG: Oh sure. Yeah. The Great Jazz Festivals around 1960. �1:23:54 HS: We were, our house was in Douglas, up to the East as I said here. Up on the hill kind of where the river, Kalamazoo river homes are, and, um, we could hear the jazz festival that was out at the airport. I never heard about the one that was in Saugatuck that was at Gosemer Lake 1:24:09 EG: Right that was later. 1:24:12HS: Yeah, that was, I don’t know about that. 1:24:13 EG: Late 1960’s 1:24:14 HS: Must have been when I was out of town or something. And I traveled a lot in the summer months. July and August, June, July, and September were key months for me to be on the job going someplace else. Wondered why my wife didn’t divorce me as a matter of fact, but she had her family and sisters and baby sitters. A couple of her sisters were able to babysit, and she had things to do, so. And a couple of buddies that were lucky. 1:24:47 EG: mmhm. Yeah. 1:24:47 HS: And you get into racing. You know, I was really into racing at Ford so that was real tough to back out of that. Cause I’m still in racing now, just watching it. 1:24:56 EG: [laugh] Wonderful. Is there anything else that we haven’t asked you about that you would like to share as we conclude our interview for today? 1:25:10 HS: No, but I had friends in the auto industry that I get together with, and boy a lot of stuff comes up sometimes. One of my friends was in Chrysler. He worked at Chrysler during the racing days against Ford. 1:25:21 EG: Ok. 1:25:22 HS: We, uh, I don’t know any jam guys anymore, but it’s fun to get together to discuss things that we have common interest in. And I love to see these shows, these history shows that go back and dig into these kind of things. 1:25:37 EG: Yeah. We were at the Henry Ford Museum not too long ago, and they had a great exhibit of course on Ford racing. That was um, that was really really interesting. 1:25:49 HS: Yeah, well, we were out of the country when Ford racing. Some of my buddies were involved in building race cars that went to Le Mont. And Ford was rejected by Ferrari, they wanted to buy Ferrari was kind of down on the outs, and Henry Ford was rejected, his offer to buy Ferrari. 1:26:09 EG: What year, what year was that? �1:26:11 HS: About 1964 or so 1:26:13 EG: Ok. 1:26:14 HS: He said we’re going to beat you anyway. We’re going to beat you big time. And he did. Ford was founded on racing. That’s how Ford Motor company got its start was by Henry Ford the Oneth out racing the guy that became the head of Chevrolet. He got the money, got his backing to build a company. So that’s why I was always kind of, I was always pro Ford, even though everyone else around here was Chevrolet. I had a couple Chevies. I had 1:26:50 EG: Was a Chevy town. 1:26:52 HS: Huh? 1:26:53 EG: It was a Chevy town 1:26:53 HS: It was a Chevy town. The closest Chevy factory. There was one in Grand Rapids and one in Kalamazoo. Chevy factories, GM factories. And that, besides whatever I don’t know, all chevies around here, pretty much, although model a was a pretty close second in some categories. Like truck for example. I try to picture my dad’s, he had an old model a truck, and they were hauling on the farm, and they were hauling loads of fruit, I’m not sure what it was. They were, they were a pear farmer. Pears are, do you know what pears are, the types of pears? Do you ever in the market at all? There’s only certain kinds that will be in a market, because they’re firm. The good pears go so soft so fast you can’t hardly ship them. And if you cut, pick them too early, you know, you’re not even getting them to market. So they’re really tricky. Well they were a pear farmer. And peaches. Peaches were big around here. There was Peach Belt School out our way. Anyway, they had a Chase School. That was my mother’s family name, Chase. 1:28:08 EG: Right 1:28:08 HS: And, so anyway, they were taking Pier Cove at it. Pier, and they were taking this old truck loaded with fruit out to the cove and getting it onto the ships to Chicago and wherever else on the Great Lakes. Milwaukee of course is straight across. That’s even closer than Chicago. But I think most of them went to Chicago market. Then there were years they did truck driving. After the boats were not so popular, because you can’t do it in the winter, at only certain times are they viable. And trucks, they were able to take, one of the guys here on the farm was still taking to the Chicago fruit market not too many years ago, because they still have fruit in some of the areas of south. Blueberries of course are the popular thing over here. They’ve all discovered blueberries as a thing. Pretty nice thing to handle. And of course cherries up the coast, you know, Traverse City way. All this fruit farming is still being used. It’s just different in that way. �1:29:10 MS: mmhmm. 1:29:11 HS: All these little farms folded that were trying to make money on that. You know my grandpa’s was forty-acres. Any number of forty-acre places around my place that you can see. Some of them split up the place and turned it into a house and thirty-nine acres or whatever. It’s good to see the buildings not getting ripped up too bad, the stores. There’s some nice architecture out there. There’s a guy next to, two guys next to me that have restore these old home sites. One of them has go a lot farm. My property was on a big farm. And we got 14 acres, but they split it all up in fives and tens, and uh, that one, so the apple trees that are there are probably that big around, you know. But the Cranes are surviving. They are the survivors. They’ve learned, you know, how to do it. 1:30: 13 EG: yeah. Well, that’s those are some great stories. I’m glad we connected with you. Thank you so much for your time. I’m going to go ahead and stop the recording at this point and conclude our formal interview. Interview ends 1:30:28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-SchultzH-20181004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Schultz, Howard Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-10-04 Title A name given to the resource Howard Schultz (Audio interview and transcript), 2018 Description An account of the resource Howard Schultz was born in Douglas, Michigan in 1935. Howard recalls growing up during wartime on the lakeshore. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gollannek, Eric (Interviewer) Stevens, Meghann (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Documenting the Histories of Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas, Kutsche Office of Local History Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf99ea01ef63ee6a848d0212cc37d47a.jpg cc412e50704e6bb81f522ed5a2f7d290 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_52_1917_009 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1917-07-22 Title A name given to the resource Howard Starr Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Howard Starr standing next to a pinto horse. Starr is holding the horse's lead. Likely taken in Richfield, New York. Subject The topic of the resource Horses Richfield (N.Y.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20155d6c3f6b76a9f46c8c1e0f054923.pdf 217430b7475451ac9ab062332956d24c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Robert Howard Vietnam War 15 minutes 33 seconds (00:00:05) -Born on August 3rd, 1942. -Enlisted in the Army from 1962-1965. -Served in Vietnam. -Highest rank achieved was sergeant first class. -Born in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan. -At that time the economy was doing well, life was comfortable living there. -Wasn’t enthusiastic about college at Central Michigan University. -Became enthralled with ROTC and decided to join the military. -Enlisted for airborne operations. -Father died while he was in basic training. -Missed candidate school entry, waited 4/5 months to go to the next class. -Assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. -Served in the 187th Airborne Regiment. -Went through jump school to be a paratrooper, and ranger school. -Went to further training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. -Trained for a field artillery data computer. -Sent to Vietnam with the military assistance crew, specifically in order to make maps. -Attached to a Special Forces team. -They were located at the Annam plateau in Vietnam. -Surveyed the drop zone. -Returned to 82nd Airborne division. -Became a Staff Sergeant at a liaison section directing artillery fire. -The computer he was trained to use allowed them to make maps of south east Asia. -At that time there were no usable maps. (05:00) -Granted the capability to map without use of chains and benchmarks. -After returning to the 82nd Airborne division, they were activated to go to the Dominican Republic. -Took a liaison section, including naval artillery fire directed by Marines, Air Force, and his own section of men with seven men and four vehicles. -Politicians insisted they not fire on buildings in Dominican Republic due to the fact that Christopher Columbus landed there and there was historic value. -Ran simulations four times a day in case they needed to be called to action. -One of his crewman was killed, and 28 others. -Part of their purpose was also humanitarian. -Distributed U.N. rice. -Did medical calls, vaccinations, cleaned up remains -Following this he was discharged from the Army. �-Civilian life; everyone was three years ahead in life and felt like he needed to catch up. -Took work in Lansing where he met his wife. -Began having children and starting a family. -Most memorable moments in service: selected for Trooper of the Year. -Also Trainee of the Year in basic training. -Received the American Freedom Medal. (10:00) -Advice to those considering military: join the best. Trusted and highly skilled. -82nd Airborne Division has incredible respect and close bonds. -Does not regret choosing to join the military. -Cites inspiration from JFK’s inaugural address (“Ask not…”). � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HowardR1833V Title A name given to the resource Howard, Robert E (Interview outline), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-05-29 Description An account of the resource Robert Howard was born in 1942 in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan. His enlistment with the Army lasted from 1962 to 1965 while he was part of the Vietnam War. Robert was assigned to the 82nd airborne division in Fort Bragg, North Carolina where he undertook paratrooper training and ranger school. At Fort Sill, Oklahoma he would continue training in order to use a field artillery data computer. In Vietnam he was attached to a Special Forces team with the purpose to make maps where none yet existed. In the Dominican Republic he directed artillery fire as well as helped to distribute humanitarian aid. After his time there he was discharged from the Army. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Howard, Robert E. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Howard, Adam (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. ArmyOral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47fd51af2fdf8a44d9a575f4c8c2d586.mp4 9547efe3308bdbe197271dc642226563 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/97c31c5b38bbdcea82a9e2eb670481f5.pdf 37a0a61ee2472fc0a124b9808263c11f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Ron Howell (1:35:54) Background Information (00:15) • • • • • • Born in Flint, Michigan on May 15th 1948. (00:18) His father worked for AT&T. His job required them to move to Indianapolis where Ron registered for the draft and graduated high school. (00:28) His family moved back to Detroit and Ron got a job as a cable splicer. His frustrations with life lead him to join the Marines. (1:24) Ron enlisted in 1966. (2:21) Ron was told by a man he worked with who was in the marines that Ron’s choice was fine but he would break his legs unless he signed up for only a 2 year stint. (3:24) In August of 1967 Ron sighed papers and took a physical. He did not get sent to Fort Wayne in December of 1967. (4:42) Basic Training (5:15) • • • • • • • • • • When he arrived at the San Diego training center in a bus, the men were shocked by a drill sergeant who came on and yelled at them. As they were ordered out of the bus and told to stand at attention, those who did not do so were punched. (5:39) Shaving of the head, issuing of cloths, shots, and the establishment of unity were all done with in the first couple of weeks. (6:42) Boot camp conditioned the men to military discipline. If a soldier said “can’t” they were sent to motivation school. This consisted of moving a pile of sand by buckets. (7:20) Whenever someone in the group messed up, the meanest member of the platoon was beaten by the drill sergeant. (8:35) Ron had played sports through high school so the physical training was not too difficult. The weapons’ training was more difficult. (9:21) There were some people who struggled understanding orders or the intensity needed to show that they were giving 110%.(11:36) The men who enlisted were separated initially form those who were drafted. (12:44) One drill instructor had been to Vietnam already. (13:06) Boot camp lasted 12-16 weeks with 4 weeks at Pendleton rifle range. (15:12) Ron was very rebellious as a child and joining the military was defiant and not a surprise to his parents. (16:13) Radio School (17:50) • • • • Ron was trained on larger radios to start then smaller back pack ones. (18:00) Radio school lasted 4 weeks. (18:05) He was given leave before being sent to Vietnam. (18:58) During his 30 day leave Ron worked downtown during a strike in Detroit, Michigan. (19:45) Arrival in Vietnam (20:33) �• • • • • • • Ron landed in Da Nang Vietnam. The heat was very overbearing. Ron was assigned to the 27th Marines. (20:35) He arrived in Vietnam in July of 1968. (21:05) Ron sat at a radio and received radios with a team, would decode it, and then would give them to his officer. (22:15) Ron didn’t stay at HQ for very long because he was frustrated with not serving out in the bush. (23:09) The base at Quang Tri was a massive bunker complex with lager tents housing 8-10 people. (23:46) Ron received a report that VC were moving up a river but it was difficult to get the message to the officers that needed it in a timely matter. (25:02) Ron asked to be transferred to a field unit. He was assigned to Company C of the 3rd Shore Party. A Shore party where he worked as the field radio operator assigned to a unit and called in helicopter support. (26:51) Service in the 3rd Shore Party (29:40) • • • • • • • • • • • • • Ron was taken to his assigned company by truck. (29:46) He was assigned to an artillery unit at one point. At the base he was stationed in the bunkers the men used were constructed by the French. (31:00) Though he was there to protect the people from communism when he arrived, at the end he didn’t trust any civilian in Vietnam. (32:24) Marines had liquor crossed out on their ration card and could not obtain it. (33:35) Ron was given three days leave to register for a college entry exam in Da Nang. (34:24) While Ron was staying in Da Nang during his three days later he met a man who was part of the Phoenix Team. (36:01) Ron felt like the men in his unit looked out for him and others. (38:26) When shooting opened up while Ron was in the field he was able to react using his training. His first big action was with Alpha Company in the DMZ. The unit was constantly mortared. After taking a hill, the unit was engaged. (40:16) He recalls the Navy Corpsman of the unit running in to the fire to take care of the unit. Ron had a high respect for these men. (42:17) Ron had to call in helicopters to evacuate casualties. (43:40) Ron was able to call in airstrikes or gun strikes but he did not have the training to properly give coordinates. (46:10) Ron often had problems calling in helicopters unless the area was cleared. There was a particular concern about having aircraft shot down in the DMZ. (48:00) Men spent a week in the read before being sent back out to the bush. During the monsoon seasons, men often spent more time in the rear. (50:12) Life in Vietnam (51:30) • • Ron was never with the same platoon twice. (51:35) There was about 6-8 people that Ran was able to get close with and even wrote a little bit after he was out of the service. (52:18) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • Ron was very aware of the anti war movement. He was a big fan of Motown and made friends with some black soldiers. They were later unable to talk to Ron due to the Black Power movement. (54:06) Marijuana was a problem in the bush. In fact, men would wear gas masks with marijuana in it while in the bush. (56:20) There was a general understanding that while on an operation the men were not to spoke. (57:55) There was great fear for being captured. (59:25) The people in Da Nang often had very exotic dress. (1:00:22) Ron was sent to China beach on a three day R&R. much of this time was spent drinking. (1:01:19) Ron waited to use his R&R until the end of his service. When he heard that he had a chance to go home in mid 1969, he tried to go to Hong Kong. However, if he took his R&R he would have been sent home later than original so he decided to give it up all together. (1:02:12) Ron was on hill 950 which served as a large communications area. Ron was assigned to a company protecting the hill. (1:04:24) Ron did receive some mortar fragment in his left leg. It did not strike his bone but was immobilized. (1:05:54) The men who flew the helicopters often varied in characters. Somewhere very professional and businesslike when delivering supplies. Others were wilder when coming into an area they knew was hot. (1:06:55) Ron did not encounter helicopters getting shot down too often. (1:08:49) Ron had some experiences that still trouble him psychologically. (1:09:49) After returning home, Ron found that he received his deferment two weeks after he enlisted. (1:10:30) Voyage Home (1:11:20) • • • • • • The Marines stopped at Fort Hanson Okinawa on the way back to the U.S. (1:11:20) One man tried to go AWOL on Okinawa. He was recovered 3 days later. (1:12:40) Ron was then flown from Okinawa to Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay to be processed. (1:14:22) Once arriving on California, Ron immediately changed into civilian clothes. (1:15:11) Ron was required to serve 5 more years in the reserve after being discharged. (1:15:45) Ron arrived back home to Michigan in August of 1969. (1:16:45) Life after Service (1:17:45) • • • • He did claim his cable splicer job back until the January of 1970 when Ron attended Northern Michigan University. (1:17:50) He received a bachelor of science with heavy emphasis on administration. (1:19:22) The Dean of Students addressed the men directly at Northern Michigan University and said no female was to be in the dorms past 10. A Vietnam veteran spoke up against this. They did not like being told what to do. (1:19:40) Ron spoke out publicly against the war on one occasion. Another Vietnam Veteran who heard this detested Ron as a result. (1:21:15) �• • • • • Ron did have some trouble readjusting. Joining school helped with his ability to adjust to normal life. (1:22:30) To this day when it is hot and there is a warm rain at night, Ron has a heightened sense of alertness. (1:24:04) His is thankful for his wife for staying with him and for staying busy and driven in order to distract himself from his troubles. (1:25:00) Ron still has difficulty seeing small children, particularly if they are oriental. (1:26:41) He feels sympathy for the men who go to the Middle East and experience a very similar situation as to what Ron experienced in Vietnam. (1:30:08) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Howell, Ron (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Howell, Ron Description An account of the resource Ron Howell, born in Flint, Michigan in 1948 He enlisted in the Marine Corps and served from 1967 to 1969. Trained at San Diego as a radio operator, he was sent to Vietnam in June, 1968 and assigned to a headquarters unit in Da Nang. He later requested duty in the field, and became a radio operator with the 3rd Shore Party near the DMZ, and went out with different combat units to call in helicopter support. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-09-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HowellR1439V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd140dbef51a45bb1c208f3eab004d72.jpg 62ae8b707f7f78cbe64f2dc81bacbd17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_343 Title A name given to the resource HRP-1 helicopter, confidential Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource HRP-1 helicopter, confidential, December 1, 1949. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1949-12-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives