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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Cold War
Name of Interviewee: Daniel Horon
Length of Interview: 00:56:10
Background:
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He lives in Sparta, MI.
He was born in Chicago, in 1939, in February. He lived in the south side of Chicago.
At the age of 6, his dad moved them to Bridgman, Michigan.
His dad had a job near there, working as a machinist and then in a laundry company,
setting up washing machines.
He would attend Bridgman High School and would graduate in 1957.
In 1956, he joined the Navy Reserve and would go to meeting in Benton Harbor. He had
a few uncles in the Navy in WWII.
He figured he would go in because he had always wanted to.
He and his friends would spend a lot of time together. They would take speed boats out
on Lake Michigan, they would go hiking and look for arrowheads and other things.
He was expected to serve 2 years of active duty.
He would join in November 1957.
He would take his first airplane to Washington D.C. and got in just at sunset. It was a
very beautiful sight.
He would train at Great Lakes Naval Station in Illinois.

Training (3:30)
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During training, they instructors were really tough on them.
They trained a lot in a pool. Before they were allowed in, however, they had to scrub
their feet really well to get any fungus they may have had off of them.
The instructors would then have them get onto a diving board almost 15 feet above the
water.
Some of the guys there had never been in water before and had to be thrown off.
He and an officer had come to the barracks one night to make inspection rounds when he
had found a bucket with someone’s clothes in it. He made them all get up and gave them
10 minutes to clean everything up.
When the officer came back in and said that that was better, one of the men said
“Goodnight Daddy!” He thought they were all done for, but the officer just grinned and
walked away.
He and the others were eventually put into a gas chamber, making sure that they had their
masks on tight. And his was on very well. After making sure that everyone had it on,
they had them take it off to take a good whiff of the tear gas was in there.
They were not allowed to leave until the last man took his mask off. When they did get
out, they couldn’t see anything.

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There was a lot of marching and pushups, carrying those antique rifles that weighed
about 15 pounds.
They also did a fire drill where they were put into a building and the building was set on
fire. You had to go and put that fire out.
They also set an outdoor tent on fire and had them put it out.
He would also have some classwork during basic training as well.
In these classes he would learn how to fire a 5-inch naval gun. (9:30)
He would practice loading those things and it was a lot of work.
He came out of basic about 25 pounds heavier.
Boot camp lasted about 2 weeks. From there he was flown out to Washington D.C.
In Washington, he was put right into mess cooking.
It was an old barracks and there were a lot of cockroaches around. They would make
bets on which was faster and so on.
It was a temporary duty. For the most part he would stay in the barracks and on
weekends he would go down and see the capital.
He bought his first camera when he was down there and he took lots of pictures. He had
a great time looking around.
The next thing he did was to put him on an overnight train to Brooklyn, New York. And
then they sent him to Newfoundland.
It was very cold there.
At first he thought he was going to Argentia, but it was actually a city in Newfoundland.
The trip to Newfoundland was not very nice in the North Atlantic during the winter. It
was very breezy and you could not be out there very long.
But if you got sea sick, you had to go up on deck, and he got seasick. He did not get
seasick at first, but then they gave him the job of moping the front head, which is the
frontward toilet area.
It was really bad.

Newfoundland (15:00)
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When they finally reached the harbor, some tugboats had come out to meet them to help
bring them into the harbor.
All you could see were snow covered hills.
The barracks there were very old.
He would be assigned to work at the post office. At midnight they would wake you up to
get mail off a plane.
The DEW Line, or Distant Early Warning Line, would be placed there. It was a series of
aircraft with radar on them that would fly out to the Azores, and make a 12 hour run.
Below them were radar picket ships. They would come back with ice almost 2 feet thick
and they would have to chip it away in order to keep their radar working properly.
He got into the Air Intelligence Office by going to school for it in Norfolk for 4 weeks.
He ended up hitching a ride back earlier than he had originally planned and was put on
fire watch. He walked up and down the hallway, and he heard a plane come in and crash.
That was the original flight he was supposed to be on. 13 men were lost that day, and he
knew of one of them.

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This crash was about 1200 ft off the runway in the water. They had sent more people out
to go and try to find survivors. 12 or so were rescued.
While they were there, they wore these fleece coats, with an inch of fleece in the middle.
It was always breezy and cold there. The snow would hit your eyes and you would
almost need safety glasses, it would cut them.
One time he was trying to find his way to a barracks, but he missed the door. The wind
had blown him down a ways and he had to go towards the wind in order to find the door
again.
They lost guys who would just get lost outside and freeze to death because of the weather
there. Especially guys who got drunk.
They recommended that at least three people travel together there during the winter time.
The Air Intelligence Training he received in Washington D.C. was all about secret
rockets and stuff like that.
We kept wire recordings of the Russians, and had to patch them up.
He became quite a graphic artist, taking pictures of ships and aircraft, and making a
presentation.
One of the presentations was for the lieutenant governor of Newfoundland. They showed
slideshows of aircraft and things like that.
One time the Russians cut the Atlantic cable with a fishing boat, or somehow. So he was
sent out to go take pictures of it. They put him in a rubber suit that would allow him to
live 30 minutes in the water; otherwise it was only 10 minutes. They wanted him to take
pictures of the Russian trawlers.
He would also get pictures of icebergs and other ships out there.
He would go out in a plane that would have a bubble on it for him to take pictures.
The suit was for in case they crashed in the water.
At first, the maneuvering of the plane would cause him to drop his camera equipment and
he would miss his shots. But after some time he finally got used to it and was able to
anticipate the moves of the plane.
One time while they were developing some photos, some guys from LIFE magazine had
come in and taken some photos of their own. They had it really easy. Each had their
own camera with different lenses and about 100 rolls of film, open and ready to go.
There was a secret report on the cable that had got cut, and there was still debate on
whether it was an accident or not. (27:30)
The Russian trawlers were suspected to try and spy on the radar of the Americans. They
had radar on their ships that was not necessary to fish. Instead they may have wanted to
keep track of the different carriers and such.
The Grand Banks were there. A picture that he got shows the mountains there and such.
They would use the radar there to keep an eye on the ships that come and go.
It was a dangerous time. Everyone kept missiles prepare in case they were needed.
One of the guys who were flying him around had to dodge something, though he doesn’t
know what it was.
No one had the capability of firing a missile in the middle of the ocean.
People at home were digging bomb shelters.
The guy who started the Hungarian Revolution was executed by Russian in 1958.
There was a lot of talk of war.

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During that time there were troubles in Lebanon, and some small military aircraft
stopped at their base en route to Lebanon
A Soviet ship put in at the port because a crewman had appendicitis, and one of the
officers from the base put on civilian clothing managed to get aboard and look around.
There were a lot of spies and things going on. They did find some spies in
Newfoundland.
He had a top secret clearance for the base, but mostly to keep things regulated and under
control, people did not talk about what they were doing.
There was a town nearby where he and others would go. There was a bar there where he
and some of the guys would go and drink some English ale. (33:00)
It was not very strong, and the bar owners would make a lot of money if someone was
going there to get drunk.
There would be fights between the natives and the soldiers. There would be fights
between the sailors and the Marines.
It was a dark and dreary place.
In the summer, you had to be in bed by 9pm and the sun would be shining. In the winter,
you were up and to work by 8am and it would still be black outside. Around noon, the
sun would come up for an hour or two, and by the time you got out at 4pm, it was dark
again.
It was cold, miserable, and rainy and there were lots of blizzards. Although it did hit 60
degrees, maybe twice while he was there.
One time he was walking back into the barracks and he walked up a mound of snow and
fell into a hole where a care had been parked. The snow came up to his shoulders and the
guys in the barracks had to pull him out.
When the weather was better he could get out and see a little more.
There was silver mine a few miles out and he and the others would hike around and go up
there. There was an 8-inch gun left over from WWII that would help to protect the bay
from Submarines.
Behind them were the steel doors that mostly likely held the ammunition for the gun.
They thought about exploring more, but decided not to.
While they were in the silver mine, they grabbed a few rock samples.
While they were there, they had a chance to go to St. Johns, the capitol. It was 80 miles
by gravel road. The gravel was really sharp and they had a really old vehicle. A stone
had come up and shot through the radiator hose.
Luckily one of the guys had said he could fix it. The guy had ended up creating his own
radiator hose and building it from scratch. It was very creative. (37:15)
St. Johns had little rooms in the house and small doors. The houses there were painted
strange colors. He thinks it was to find them in the winter.
There were a lot of different people up there, from all different nations.
He met a man called Jim Crowe who worked on the base for a while, but was a native.
He gave a pretty rock and would introduce him more into the ways of their culture. He
even showed him an anti-American song, but it was really funny.
He remembers that you could buy a whole pot of tea for a nickel, but a cup of coffee was
a quarter. They didn’t drink coffee, so it was kind of rare.

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When the natives would go out fishing, they would have to bring fog horns in order to
find their way back to the land. They would go out in little dories and hand line codfish.
He remembers that one man took a spoon and made it into a fishing lure and caught a
codfish with it.
Another guy went in with a diving suit and got a lobster.
One time when he was getting food, his tray had held a lobster that hung off of either end.
The man handed him a napkin full of tools to help him in his mission to get the meat
from that thing. He had plier, pincher, and a couple of picks.
It was good but scary.
He would also have a couple of other people to land on the secret base as well. One of
the soviet government officials would land there and it made quite a stir with the soldiers
there.
If you had a car out there it was a challenge. One time one of the officers had parked his
car, and the water had come up to the bottom of the frame of the car and froze. He had to
haul buckets of water out there in order to get it unfrozen from the ground.
They had snow blowers that you would not believe. These things would throw snow
almost 200 feet. They had to keep the runways clear and it was difficult to keep them
clear.
It was dangerous being there because the weather was so unpredictable. One minute the
wind would be coming from one direction, the next hour it would come from another.
He was surprised there weren’t more casualties. There were 29 men who died altogether
while he was there.
One time a plane had crashed and gone up in flames right on the runway. He would go to
the mess hall the next day and see some of the guys from the crash. They had worn flame
protective gear under their coats, but they looked pretty roughed up.
A few ships were lost as well. There was a tower there to help guide the ships into the
harbor, so there were not so many problems there.
When he was working at the post office he had to go aboard the ships to deliver mail
(47:00)
He went aboard a couple icebreakers, a supply ship, the auxiliary repair ships and a
submarine once.
The guys in the sub had been running under water for 40 days and they were all on deck
and breathing air.
He finally got his mail pouch down the hatch, and he explored the ship. It was a pretty
happy bunch of guys.
As his time in the service was running out, he wanted to go to college. So when they
asked, it was tempting, but he still said no. They even offered him to go to nuclear
training school. But he still said no.
After he worked in the post office, he worked for the Admiral who ran the base.
Admiral Martin was a quiet man. He had a sword and stuff. One day he had left it in the
office and he got a picture of it.
When his time was up, the Admiral stopped his car and gave him a ride to the airport.
While he was there, they did not get anyone get away with anything. It was a strict base.
All the formalities of the barracks were supposed to be followed.

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You learn how to get along with people and you get into fights along the way. You learn
how to fight your own battles as well.
He learned how to judge people a little better and you learn how to go on your own.

Post Duty (54:05)
 When he got out he went right into college at the University of Detroit. It was quite a
shock.
 He was on his own; he had little money and no GI benefits.
 He finished 2 years of college and worked as an engineering technician for about 8 years.
 He would move around to Newaygo and finally end up in Sparta.

CD 1


Contains images of the harbor, broken pipeline, ships, architecture and scenery from
Newfoundland.

CD2


Contains images of different aircraft, him up in the plane, crew and visitors and their
aircraft, different ships, overhead views of the scenery and harbor.

CD3


Contains images of a town, architecture in the town, different statues, scenery, flowers,
and different parts of the town.

CD4


Contains images of people, ships, aircraft, paper cuttings, cars buried in snow, equipment,
icebergs, a hangar, scenery, sunset, the town, plant life, buildings, statues, architecture,
the old gun from WWII, more people.

CD5


Contains images of people, ships, scenery, aircraft, equipment, the runway, paper
cuttings, ice covered planes, the Admiral’s sword, the town architecture, statues, more
people, plants,

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
All American Girls Professional Baseball League
Veterans’ History Project
Interviewee’s Name: Katie Horstman
Length of Interview: (01:08:34)

Interviewed by: Frank Boring, GVSU Veterans History Project, September 27, 2009,
Milwaukee, WI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion.
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, May 20, 2010
Interviewer: “What is your name and where and when were you born?”
My name is Katherine Teresa Horstman known as Horsy or Katie and I go by the name
of Katie and I was born in Minster, Ohio on April 14, 1935.
Interviewer: “What was your early childhood like, before high school, in the early
days?”
The early days—I had five brothers, two sisters, born on a farm east of Minster, Ohio and
I’ll tell you, I had a lot of cows to milk every morning and that’s how I got my wrist
strength, so Jimmy Foxx said. I helped with the chores because my brothers all were in
service at one time, so the three girls had to help out with the farm work, help dad.
Interviewer: “So your dad was a farmer?”
Oh yes.
Interviewer: “A dairy farmer?”
We had everything. It was a hundred acres at that time, about a hundred acres it was all
small. Small town, German town, talked German, didn’t talk in English, I was brought
up speaking German. 1:19.
Interviewer: “So the early day before the war you had your brothers around you?”
They were all older I was the second youngest.
Interviewer: “Ok, so you didn’t play games with your brother—they were already
older.”
Except for one brother, John and he was a good ball player, but whenever I could,
whenever I didn’t have chores to do or anything, drive the tractor or whatever, John and I
would hit balls. We had a lot of neighbor kids and every Sunday it was known that we
would take turns going to each other’s houses and play baseball, not softball because the
boys didn’t want to play softball, we had to play baseball. 2:03 If you weren’t any good
you sat on the sidelines, but if you were good they asked you to play.

1

�Interviewer: “So did you sit on the sidelines?”
No way, no I was pretty good otherwise they wouldn’t let me play.
Interviewer: “In school were there any kinds of sports for girls?”
Not at all until—it was a Catholic community, 99.9 percent Catholic, and a young priest
came into town and he started the CYO, which was a Catholic Youth Organization. The
girls didn’t have anything and he felt sorry for us and he was a good ball player, so he
started it. We had softball, so I started in the sixth grade and ended up a freshman
because at fifteen years I was scouted by Fort Wayne, Indiana. 2:56
Interviewer: “We’re jumping too quickly—so he set up a softball team that was not
just for boys?”
No, not at all, they didn’t play softball they played baseball.
Interviewer: “So there was a softball girls team that you played on in high school?’
Exactly.
Interviewer: “Did you hear about out did you know about, for example,
professional men’s baseball? Were their newspapers that you red or radio?”
Oh my gosh, Wally Post is from around us, played for the Reds and Pete Rose was born
on April 14th, same as my birthday, so that was my hero, my idol.
Interviewer: “So you actually knew about baseball outside of just the people you
were playing with?” 3:39
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: “You followed the teams?”
Radio, we always had the Reds on—big Reds fans.
Interviewer: “When did you hear, I don’t mean the exact date or anything, but do
you remember when it was that you heard there was a women’s team?”
Well, in one of the papers, Dottie Schroeder was in the Sidney Daily News and said that
Charlie Grimm would pay her fifty thousand dollars if she was a man. I cut it out and I
had a little scrap book that I kept all the clippings in because we had a weekly paper, The
Minster Post, and they would always put the scores in and what we did, and I pasted
those in and I put Dottie’s picture right on the front and put under it, My Ambition, not
knowing, I was only fourteen then when I saw this picture in the paper, and I cut it out
and I always dreamt that hopefully I would meet her. 4:35
Interviewer: “So once you saw that picture, you cut it out and put it in your
scrapbook. When did the actual opportunity come up?”

2

�The next year—my father passed away that year, when I was fourteen, so I was tired of
milking the cows for my brother and the chickens and everything else that we had to do
and I thought—I just kept praying on the dream that I gotta find. So we were playing St.
Henry in Ohio in May during school time and a scout from Fort Wayne happened to be
there and he told the coach from St. Henry, “Hey, I think that girl can play ball and she
can play on the Fort Wayne Daisies team”, and he said, “who are the Fort Wayne
Daisies? He had never heard of Fort Wayne either or girls baseball, so his daughter was a
senior, so he said, “I would like to see those two try out for the Fort Wayne Daisies.”
5:45 He’s the one that took me after school was out, which was like May 23rd and we
went to Fort Wayne and I started pitching and infield practice. Max Carey was the coach,
hallo of famer, and he said, “Yes, you can stay”. 6:02
Interviewer: “What did your mom think about this?”
Well, I came home, I had to get clothes and stuff, and I told her about it and she said, “As
long as you go to church every Sunday you can go, but as soon as you don’t you’re back
here”, so I never missed a Sunday in my life because I always remember my mother, she
was very, very strict.
Interviewer: “What was the actual process? How did you get there and once you
got there what actually happened? I know you want to get into the game and all
that, but for our purposes we want to know the exact details.”
Okay, I was fifteen years old, I couldn’t drive, I didn’t have a car, my dad had passed
away, and nobody could take me except Tony Bernard, who was from St. Henry, the
coach, he took me and then I started and I had another roommate from Philadelphia and
we stayed in somebody’s home, you couldn’t stay in apartments, we always stayed in
private homes that wanted some ball players to stay with them. 7:16
Interviewer: “Did you sign a contract?”
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: “At fifteen?”
At fifteen I signed a contract. Fifty dollars, the rookies got fifty dollars a week, okay this
was great money since I was only making forty cents for mowing the neighbors’ lawn, an
acre. I could have cared less about the money I had no idea. I think the first year, until I
turned sixteen; I was paid under the table. They gave me cash because they weren’t
allowed to write out a check. 7:47
Interviewer: “So, had you traveled at all any distance before you went to Fort
Wayne?”

3

�Probably Dayton, Ohio was forty-five miles and that took an hour and a half in a 1936
Ford because I remember the escalator that’s all I remember. I had never been on an
escalator and I was petrified to go up that escalator and I finally did and it was okay.
Since we had chores, you had to be there, it was a responsibility and we didn’t know any
better and loved it as long as I could play for CYO once a week that was great to me and
I loved to hit. 8:29
Interviewer: “What was your first impression of Fort Wayne when you got there?”
Well, when I got there it was funny because Max Carey had me pitch right away. He
wanted to see my arm. Well, I had a pretty good arm and I was very accurate and I
pitched and pitched for at least thirty minutes batting practice and Lefty Alvarez was
picking up the balls and giving them to me and she was talking and I couldn’t understand
her and I thought, “what kind of a language is she talking and what am I getting into?”
She kept saying, “are you tired, are you tired, are you tired?” I thought, “gosh” and I
finally turned around and asked somebody because I couldn’t understand her and they
said she was saying, “are you tired”, and they said she was from Cuba. 9:16 I said,
“Cuba, where’s that? I had no idea. I really paid attention to the history lessons after
that.
Interviewer: “Did you feel at all intimidated at that age? Here’s these girls you
know who are playing professional ball.”
I was more intimidated by the big city life. That just threw me you know, all these cars
and all these people, I had no idea, but as far as playing ball, no, they were all very nice.
Dotty Schroeder was on that team, so I was happy, Jo Weaver, the sisters, Jean Weaver
and Betty, super nice because most of them came from farms like me, so I could
communicate and we talked farm life mostly and baseball and that’s all I remember.
10:09
Interviewer: “ Now rookies are usually treated like rookies, so how were you
treated when you first started?”
Not bad at all because they knew I had an arm and knew I could hit, so we had no
problems. Jo, Jeanne and I, there were four of us that were fifteen, sixteen years old and
that helped. With her sisters being older and Betty was a super player, and they played
two years before I did, Betty did, So she had the car and she took us all around and that’s
how I got my transportation. 10:54
Interviewer: “That must have been amazing to be with some players and one of
them has a car?”
I know, it was unreal, well she was making a hundred and some dollars a week and cars,
you could buy a band new car at the end of the season for two thousand five hundred, so
she always had a brand new car and a big one you know. We were in seventh heaven and
didn’t know it.

4

�Interviewer: “I know this is going back a long way, and I don’t want to jump ahead
too far, but what were the first few, say days or weeks like? You didn’t start
playing in a game right away did you?”
No, no.
Interviewer: “What were the first days kind of like?” 11:31
Just more or less getting acquainted with the girls and getting use to playing every day
and a regular schedule.
Interviewer: “What was the routine? I know it was different sometimes, but what
was the routine?”
The routine was that a four o’clock you would be at the ballpark and we would warm up
and stuff and seven o’clock was game time and the crowd would come in. Fort Wayne
had one of the biggest crowds in the whole league and then we would watch the game or
participate for the first couple of weeks or month. I didn’t play very much, but just
watched to see how everybody was playing their position. I was very versatile because I
could play outfield or whatever, but I never considered myself a pitcher because I didn’t
pitch underhand, I always threw overhand. 12:35
Interviewer: “At that time, when you first started, were they still pitching
underhand?”
No, no, in softball in the CYO, that’s the only position I never played. Just to get
acquainted with the bigger city and the fans and the rules, that’s what threw me, I
couldn’t believe the rules. Lipstick on every day all the time because the chaperone
would remind you and I mean she was strict, Tetzlaff from Wisconsin and every time we
would try to get out of it or something she would say, “Okay, either wear it or you get
fined”. The fine the first time was five dollars and then ten dollars and then twenty
dollars and then suspension, you were out and man, I didn’t want to go home. Although I
did get homesick and I was surprised, but you get over that. 13:32 I think my room
mate, Jeanne Geissinger, who was sixteen, she helped me a lot, we were both together
and like I said, the Weaver sisters really helped me.
Interviewer: “I’m kind of curious about this, had you worn lipstick before you had
gone into the league?”
No, you normally didn’t wear lipstick in our town until you were sixteen. Sixteen was
like a magic number, you could wear lipstick, you could have a date, you never dated
before and that was another thing because some guys would come up and ask me for a
date and I said, “well I don’t know, I have to ask the chaperone”, and she said, “Only if I
go along”. Go along, I thought, “wow” and I said, “No, I’ll wait until I’m sixteen”.
Interviewer: “Well, who taught you how to put lipstick on?”

5

�Well, I just did it you know. It wasn’t that hard and I thought it was amazing and then we
had curfew and I wasn’t use to that either because on the farm we went to these dances
and we had huge dance halls and we had Guy Lombardo, the Eagles and all and that was
very famous in our town, we had big dances. 14:46 So, I don’t know, I just got to learn
how to put lipstick on and everything and that was it.
Interviewer: “ What were some of the other things you had to do besides lipstick?
Did you have to wear your hair a certain way?”
It had to be a certain length. You couldn’t wear boyish hairdos. You had to be in two
hours on a road trip and that was another thing, we got to travel to Rockford, Illinois and
all these places, but if you got off the bus to get a coke, you had to put a skirt on. You
could wear shorts and slacks on the bus, and I thought--my god, we stopped at a little
town and I said, “who in the world is out here at two thirty in the morning? I don’t see
anybody”, and she said, “if you want to pay the five dollars, it’s up to you”. No way.
15:41
Interviewer: “Was there, when you first started, did they kind of sit you down, you
and a couple others, to kind of go through this little school—this is what you have to
do, you have to have on lipstick etc.?”
The chaperone did.
Interviewer: “So right away from the beginning they told you?”
Right away on the very first day.
Interviewer: “Okay, so like you said, there were certain rules and regulations and if
you didn’t you were fined.”
Yes, I told you what the rules were on that. Five, ten, twenty and suspension.
Interviewer: “How far did you get?”
Oh no, I paid attention believe me, I wanted to play ball. I did everything they said and
my mother would have been really proud of me because I would always question her.
16:31
Interviewer: “So let’s kind of put ourselves, you’re on the bench over the first
couple of weeks, watching and seeing how the game is being played, what was your
experience when you first got your opportunity to play?”
Well, the first opportunity I remember playing outfield, right field, and I think I pitched
too. I did real well in hitting and Max Carey liked the way I hit, so I played outfield and
I think I pitched the very first year too and I won three games. I pitched three games and

6

�won every one of them, so that was great. The next year Jimmy Foxx came in as our
manager in 1952 and he didn’t want me in the outfield. He thought I had super arms, so
he put me on third base in the infield and I really liked the infield. I moved around and
then he needed pitchers, so then I pitched and played third base. 17:35 I didn’t get a
day’s rest like these pitchers do now, I went right to third base, if he needed me I was
right there.
Interviewer: “Let’s stay in the first season, you got a chance to pitch and one of the
things I found from some of the interviews that I have done with the other players,
is when they became a rookie there was certainly the sense that they were the
rookie, but once you played and the other women saw you playing well, you no
longer were the rookie. Did you ever get the feeling or sense that you were no longer
the rookie?”
No, I guess it didn’t bother me.
Interviewer: “So you just wanted to play baseball?”
Exactly, that’s all I wanted to do. I just wanted to play ball. I was a pretty good punter in
football. 18:29
Interviewer: “You had played before with the Catholic Youth Group, but now
you’re playing in professional baseball and I would imagine there’s a few more fans
in the stands, how were the fans?”
Oh yeah, but we had a lot of fans in CYO. It was a small town and that’s all you had to
do in the evening, we always played at night, so people from work, this was there
entertainment. We had a semi-pro baseball team, boys, but they only played on Sundays,
so during the week we played and we drew a pretty big crowd. 19:00
Interviewer: “So you were used to the fans?”
Well not ten thousand like the fans they had
Interviewer: “Was that at all intimidating to you, the fact that there were that
many people?”
Not at all, I loved the fans. That’s why I liked third base because I could talk to them like
Rosie O’Donnell, I was one of those with the fans and I always loved to talk to them.
Interviewer: “How was that? I remember from the movie that happening, but did
you actually talk to people during the game?”
Not during the game, no, no, but right after or before mostly before and you would sign
autographs. You never refused because you knew they paid for your work. 19:52

7

�Interviewer: “Was there a mixture in the audience or was it mostly men or
women?”
Amazingly and what was amazing, lots of young men and that amazed me. Same thing
with these autograph sessions—that really amazes me—young man, what do you want
my old autograph for? Like I said today, lots of historians are young men and they
collect a lot of memorabilia.
Interviewer: “What were some of the highlights that you can remember from your
first season, the first time out?”
First season—well, that we were in the playoffs, we were in the play offs and so I had—
well, you know I was supposed to be back in school after Labor Day, that’s when school
started, so I thought that was going to be a big problem, but the superintendent liked me
and he said, “Oh well, women don’t ordinarily get an education anyhow, so you might as
well just go and as long as you have good grades”, and that was the thought because the
women over there hardly anybody went to college at that time. You’re talking about the
fifties and the philosophy over there was that women get married, have kids and are in
the kitchen making meals or working on the farm. 21:22
Interviewer: “But you got to play baseball.”
Yes I did.
Interviewer: “So the first season you did the playoffs. Did you play in the games?”
Oh Yeah, and I called the superintendent and he said to go ahead and he was really nice,
he understood, but I only missed like two weeks as long as I made it up, but then I came
back and spring training was like the first of May and we were going to Newton, North
Carolina in 1952. I approached him as soon as I found out, which was in February, and
he said, “Okay, this next semester, I notice your conduct is going down and if you can get
your conduct up you’re allowed to go”, so I had to button up a little. 22:21
Interviewer: “Shall we get into the conduct part of this or not?”
I was a prankster and I got that from my brother.
Interviewer: “So no more pranks?”
No, I was an angel believe me. It was hard but--Interviewer: “So the first season when you came back from playing, what was the
reaction, you say it was a small town, what was the reaction from your family, from
the town, were you treated differently?”
Well, in a way I was and they were very happy because after that we had spring training
and the teams came through, like I said, that one night with Kenosha, Wisconsin and Fort
Wayne released me to play with them and I pitched in front of my home town and we had

8

�three thousand people and our town was only two thousand five hundred, so the
neighboring people came and baseball was very popular. My brother played for Minster,
so we played against each other one time. 23:22 They treated me perfect and I was a
star.
Interviewer: “So you got past the rookie status even though you didn’t feel that
way, but you got past that and now we’re going into 1952 and it’s your second
season. Tell us about that, was there anything different about coming to play”
Oh yeah, we heard that Jimmy Foxx was the manager, the Jimmy Foxx, he was like Babe
Ruth and we thought wow, you know we’re playing under this guy? He was super nice
just unbelievable, he couldn’t believe it that the girls were so good and coming from him
you had to be pretty good. He was just—he was like a second dad to me, we really
clicked and he brought me in from outfield and he said, “you’re going to play third base
because you got that arm and that long distance”, so I had accuracy, that was the biggest
thing and then he was running out of pitchers and they didn’t have savers or what they
have now days, and so I would also pitch and because I had accuracy and fast ball was
my main pitch. 24:58
Interviewer: “Tell us about being the pitcher, what was the strategy there? Did you
have many different types of throws?”
No, I didn’t have very many—I didn’t have a curve ball, knuckle ball or anything like
that. All I had was a fast ball and then I found out from the other pitchers that if you
slowed it down a little, different speeds, change up would throw the batters off, which I
noticed some did because we had a lot of good pitchers and if they changed up, my gosh,
you were way ahead waiting for that fast ball to come in and you would strike out. I tried
it and it really worked for me and also my catcher was very, very intelligent, she knew all
of the players and what they liked—inside ball, outside ball and since I was so accurate,
because I had really worked on accuracy, I think I hit one person ever and I felt so bad I
never threw another inside pitch. 26:04 That was mostly it and I think my ERA speaks
for itself because I think I only lost two games the second year.
Interviewer: “Was there a difference, in terms of your playing, between the first
manager and then when Jimmy came in, did you feel that you played better?”
I played better because Jimmy was a hitter and I loved to hit the ball. I remember one
time I was up to the plate and he said, “Gosh, did you live on a farm and milk cows?” I
thought, “Wow, does it show?” I was thinking about smelling the manure and all that
and thought, “wow” and he said, “no, because I was on a farm and you got a wrist action
like a farmer”, like milking cows because that’s where I got my wrist action. 27:00 I
thought, “way to go”, and I hated to milk those cows and here it was the greatest thing I
ever did. I’ll never forget that though because I looked at him and I thought, “wow”, I
thought maybe I looked like a farmer, I didn’t know.

9

�Interviewer: “Did he actually show you specific things to do that maybe you had
not done before, techniques and things like that?”
He just told me that I was a natural, a natural hitter and my last—1954 I was only
eighteen or nineteen years old and I was batting three twenty eight and that was my final
batting average. 27:41
Interviewer: “52”, are there any highlights that you can think of? You mentioned
having a new manager and that was a big thing, but in terms of plays, in terms of
games you may have played, is there anything that sticks out from that year?”
I played more, I played a lot of games, I was in every game, except when I pitched, and
normally he gave me a night or two off. I also played different positions if somebody got
hurt, like second base, he would put me in or first base, whatever-- because again, we
heard rumors that pretty soon there wouldn’t be girls baseball, but we just thought they
were rumors because Fort Wayne did real well, but South Bend, Studebaker went out, so
they were no longer there and that really affected the crowds in South Bend. 28:34
Interviewer: “We’ll get back there in a minute, but I want to get back to the idea
that Jimmy was having you go to different position. Was that unusual? Did all of
the girls have that ability—just put them here, put them there?”
A few, just a very few. Most of them just had their regular positions, like Dotty
Schroeder, she would always play shortstop. I never saw her play any other position.
Willy Briggs, left field, Tybee Eisen, center field—the outfielders were sort of set.
Interviewer: “You were kind of, for Jimmy anyway, if he really needed somebody.”
Oh yeah, he could rely on me and besides he didn’t like me on the bench. 29:20
Interviewer: “So now the second year—how were the crowds the second year? Still
the same numbers?”
Fort Wayne was great, the same numbers. People really—and we didn’t get harassed at
all, called “tomboys” or anything like that. Those people—well, the early forerunners in
the forties set the tone and we didn’t have any problems. Everybody else knew that it
was still a men’s game, but we never got any kind of harassment call or you know. 29:57
Interviewer: “Now the first year and the second year, you were going on the road
too, right?”
Yeah
Interviewer: “So, what were the road trips like?”

10

�Oh, they were excellent, we would get in the bus and everybody would try to get in the
back of the bus, but they were excellent and we would start singing our songs and
everything like that and South Bend wasn’t too far, but in Rockford, Illinois we would
leave after the game and all night and get there maybe like four o’clock in the morning,
go to the hotel and sign in at the hotel. Again, we wouldn’t play or be at the ballpark
until four o’clock, so normally we took in a movie. 30:42 That was normally it and after
the game we had two hours before our curfew and we would have to be in because the
manager was right there and the chaperone was right there and we knew when to come
in. 30:56
Interviewer: “You hadn’t traveled very much in terms of from your childhood and
now you’re traveling. Did you get an opportunity to spend any time in the towns
that you went to other than to see a movie or something?”
Well, sometimes, but not really, but spring training, that was my first spring training and
we got to go to Newton, North Carolina and I got my first train ride and I was excited.
Then when I went down south they had a whole different language, you know that drawl
and especially in Newton, North Carolina I remember people would---and I was playing
outfield and there was one kid in the stand near right field and he said, “hey Yankee go
home”, and I said, “Yankee, I’m a Reds fan”, and he said, “communist”, and I thought,
“what is this?” 31:48 I had no idea, but we made it and it was nice. People treated us
great, but again the food was different you know, hominy and grits, hominy and grits, oh
yuck. I was use to cereal, bacon, eggs and stuff like that. They didn’t have it; they had
hominy and grits everyday. I used to go across the street and get a hamburger. 32:21
Interviewer: “Where in the south did you go?”
Newton, North Carolina and played around, like another team like Kenosha or another
team that would train there. We would stay at a big boarding house, one team, and again
we were not allowed to fraternize with another team, so even though they stayed down a
block or whatever, we weren’t allowed to talk to them. After the game we never shook
hands or say, “nice game”, because they thought we would throw the game or something,
I don’t know what their thinking was. That was also in the men’s though and actually it
still is, but the media now is so great that they have to talk back and forth. I think that’s
what happened. 33:05
Interviewer: “So, after your second season, were you making fairly decent money
by that time?”
Oh yes, at that time I was making seventy dollars. I went up twenty dollars.
Interviewer: “What were you doing with the money?”
Well, I saved my money and I paid for my own—well, we didn’t have too much book
money then for school and I was still in high school, but I paid for my own clothes and
everything like that and the rest I just saved until I could buy a car.
Interviewer: “Were you sending money home?”

11

�No, not really, I kept my own. My mom let me keep it, she said, “you’re in charge”, so I
put it in the bank.
Interviewer: “That’s great. Now, 1953—I know, of course we all know now that
we’re getting to the end of the league although, you didn’t know it.”
It just never dawned on us, we just thought it was rumor, but 1953 was a good year. Bill
Ellington was my manager, and again we went down south and played ball and I was use
to that and the train and that was to me like having an airplane ride. I got on the all-stars
for third baseman and won the all-star game by pitching up to the thirteenth inning, I
think I pitched from the ninth inning to the thirteenth and we won the game four to three.
34:49
Interviewer: “How does one get chosen for the all-star game?”
They take everybody in the league and compare their averages and everything with
everybody else—hitting, fielding, so I played more third base then because what threw
me off on the other years was because I also pitched, so I had double duty, but I was
hitting well, I hardly had any errors and they brought me on the all-star team. 35:27
Interviewer: “What was your reaction when you found out?”
I was ecstatic, but I didn’t know I was going to end up pitching in the game you know.
Interviewer: “Mostly you’re a third baseman.”
I was chosen for third base and then he needed a pitcher because it was extra innings and
he put me in because he knew I was accurate, so I went in pitching and won the game.
My roommate hit the home run to win the game. 35:53
Interviewer: “Tell us about the game.”
Oh, it was exciting and there’s a picture in one of the books that somebody wrote. I was
just so happy, my roommate and I, we had big headlines in the paper.
Interviewer: “Walk us through the game. How did it open up? How was the
beginning, the first inning?”
Well, we always start it with the opposing team lining up on third base and we were on
first base V for victory, we always honored the veterans and the American flag, the whole
ball of wax just like the regular ball games and I was playing third base and you’re asking
me who we played, but it was the second team that was next to us, that’s who we had to
play. All the other all-stars, Fort Wayne, we were in first place, so I played with Fort
Wayne and we played against the all-stars, so our team playing against Fort Wayne as the

12

�all-stars. We beat the all-stars and like I said, we were very young. A lot of us were
young and I think the oldest one was twenty-five, so anyway, it was thrilling. 37:18
Interviewer: “How did the game open? How were the first few innings? Was it a
slam-dunk from the beginning?
Well it was—nobody could get a hit. I think Winsch pitched and she was good, so she
pitched and she was the number one pitcher and she was excellent. She had curve balls,
drop balls, you name it, and she was good.
Interviewer: “How did you do against her?”
I think I did all right; I had two for four, so I thought that was pretty good.
Interviewer: “How was the middle of the inning? Were you still going?”
Oh, we were battling; it was a terrific game for the fans because they just enjoyed it. It
probably was the longest game you know, we didn’t have all these gizmos like helmets to
put on and knee wraps or anything like that. It bothers me and I noticed somebody said
our games were two hours or two and a half hours and that game was like three hours and
that was really long and like I said, we speeded it up because we didn’t have all that
although, our pitching style is totally different from what they do now. 38:31 I had a full
wind up going like this then throwing the ball in.
Interviewer: “So when was the moment when it really determined the game was
going to go your way?”
Well, not until Jeanne hit the home run. I mean it was deadlocked and it looked like we
were going to be there all night until Jeanne Geissinger hit the home run and we were in
happyville.
Interviewer: “That’s wonderful, that’s wonderful—when that was over, and the
season was over and when you went home, was there a different reaction this time?”
39:10
Well, we got in the playoffs, but we never won the playoffs for some odd reason, I don’t
know what it was—just tired, so actually it started the beginning of 1954 when we went
to spring training we came through Ohio and some games in all of these little towns that
would bring the fans, so they would look for the players and another town that was pretty
good and semi-pro teams were there, so we played in my home town. My nephews came
out, they were just little like four or five years old and I played against my brother.
That’s when we played against the men and the men would pitch against the men and the
women would pitch against the women and then we beat them. 40:11 That was terrific
and like I said, there were like—there’s only like two thousand five hundred in our town
and I think there was a crowd of two thousand eight hundred and that was terrific because
I pitched and I won.

13

�Interviewer: “You said your cousins, were other members of your family there?”
No, my nephews and my brothers were there and my family and of course all my
classmates. I was pretty nervous and that’s the only time I remember being really
nervous because everybody was counting on me. 40:53
Interviewer: “What about the catholic… was it the priest?”
Yeah, he was there and he was praying for me.
Interviewer: “That must have been a pretty proud moment for you.”
Yes, very emotional and everybody talked about that game. They had flyers out, Katie
Horstman and Armstrong Airport which is just five miles down the road took a plane and
threw out flyers saying that we were coming into town. 41:23
Interviewer: “Do you remember after the game whether the father came up to you?
Did he?”
I think he came to the Wooden Shoe Inn, which is a big restaurant right in town and they
treated us to a chicken dinner. They were famous for chicken dinner and he came and
was very proud of me.
Interviewer: “He had to be considering the fact that he started the game when you
were there.”
He’s still living and I still go back there and see him. He does mass every once and a
while and he’s retired, but excellent.
Interviewer: “Wow, wow, we should send him a copy of this.”
Oh yeah, he would love it. His name is Father Shuey, ordained and handsome, everyone
went out for CYO. I never even knew half the kids could play you know. I think about
fifty kids came out and we couldn’t take care of fifty and we ended up with twenty.
42:18
Interviewer: “So, are there any other highlights from 1953 that you can think of?”
Just that I was becoming more involved and playing more games, like everyday unless I
pitched and I would get time off and my batting average kept going up, I think it was like
two eighty nine, but again the ball was a little bit bigger than the regular ball. Now,
coming into 1954 they couldn’t find those balls anymore and they weren’t going to make
them because they didn’t know if the league was going to fold in the middle or when, so
they didn’t want all these balls, so then we played with a regular baseball. Oh my god
how easy, I mean girl’s hands are smaller then men and I could grip that ball, wow, and

14

�hit it. 43:14 We were hitting home runs galore, so it was the best thing that ever
happened. Bill Allington became our coach and he was strict. When we went on the
road, he would have thirty questions and you better read that rulebook and you better
answer them right or you had laps to run. He was strict, which was very good and I
believed in discipline. I had discipline from my mom and dad and of course with eight
kids you have discipline. I had nuns in school although, it was a public school, Precious
Blood where the father came in, and they were strict, with rulers, the ruler sisters, and
when I came into baseball and saw all those rules—I was born with discipline, so I didn’t
mind it. Although, you always try to see if you can beat the system, right? 44:21
Interviewer: “So, coming into 1954 was the atmosphere at all different in terms of
either the moral of the teams?”
No, except that we were all praying that it wouldn’t end because then they kept—like in
the middle of the season they said they didn’t think it was going to continue because they
couldn’t afford it and you know, different ownerships of different teams. Fort Wayne
was great, For Wayne was solid, but the other teams—television came in and people
would go to see the guy’s play and we also, couldn’t find girls. We had like Jr. Daisies,
Blue Sox, and Jr. Blue Sox similar to a minor league team and they were anxious to come
up, but we didn’t have enough of them. They only had like two teams and they would
play against each other in each town. 45:21
Interviewer: “How about the fans, was there any difference? I don’t mean about
being enthused or anything like that, but number?”
Well, that went down because they were watching television. They had more things to
do and in wartime it was very restricted like gas rationing and all of that stuff, so that was
no more and they could go place and you know, more things to see.
Interviewer: “I’m going to ask you a question that at the time you might not have
been able to answer, but I’ll just pose it anyway. Was there anytime up until 1954
that you actually thought this would be a career you would be doing? You were a
really young girl.” 46:07
Oh I know, I was just getting in my prime. No, I thought it would last forever. To me I
prayed everyday that it would last forever, but after 1954, most people don’t know, but
then Bill Allington got a group of us, eleven of us, twelve with him, two cars and we
went all over the United States, except for the east, and we played against the men. We
had a bookie out of Omaha, Matt Pascal was his name, and he would get the schedule
maybe two weeks ahead of time so we would know. We would play a game, go to the
next town, play another game and we had a hundred and ten games, the same as we did
for the Daisies. We played every day, but we had to travel. You only had a duffle bag,
that’s all you could have, your uniform and whatever. We were always in the laundry
room, but like I said, we weren’t like the Silver Bullets, like Phil Niekro did, they played
against the men. 47:13 At that time that never would have worked because nobody
would come to the game and we didn’t want to say that, “hey, we’re stronger and better
than you”, the men, although a lot of times we were except when we played the triple A

15

�teams, the semi-pro teams, they were good, but we had their pitcher and catcher and they
would pitch against them and we would pitch against the girls, so we won most of our
ball games. Every four o’clock we would advertise, beside the posters that we had, that
map. We would go in the fire truck and run around town in the fire truck telling people
that the game was at seven o’clock they would announce it. It was thrilling and I saw the
whole United States except for the east. 47:55 That was wonderful to me because I
loved traveling.
Interviewer: “This is after 1954 though?”
This is after 1954—55,56,57 we did that for three years.
Interviewer: “Let’s go back to 1954 though, when did you find out and how did you
find out that it was over?”
Well, I think it was after the play offs and then they said, “count on not being here next
year. I think that we may not have teams”, and we all knew that was the end 48:34.
Interviewer: “What was the reaction?”
The reaction was very, very sad, we counted on it, especially the very young ones, and
we were just getting into our prime. I thought, “my god, what are we going to do? We
got to work”. That was our biggest reaction, what are we going to do? Here I just got out
of high school and I thought, “wow, not I got to look for a job”, so that was most of us,
we were very, very upset. 49:09
Interviewer: “How was your last year though playing?”
My last year, my god, I batted three twenty eight, I think, and pitched and won I don’t
know how many games, but it was excellent because I loved that little baseball you
know. The size changed to a regular baseball and it was tremendous you know. You just
could hit it harder, throw it harder, everything, I just enjoyed it. When I was a kid
playing with my brothers that’s the ball we used and I was use to it, so it came back and I
was very happy about it. 49:49
Interviewer: “Any highlights that you can think of from 1954? What really sticks
out to you that may have been the big ones?”
Well, just my hitting, I hit a lot of home runs and I was a long ball hitter because I didn’t
like sliding in the short skirts. I did that once at second base and oh my god that hurt. I
always made sure I get a single, a double, a triple or a home run. I wanted to make sure I
would get to that base without sliding.
Interviewer: “You say you went through three years of playing with this kind of
team that was kind of put together after the end.”
Yeah, Bill Allington and we had spring training—like we went to Arlington, Texas, that’s
where we had our first spring training and we played amongst ourselves first to warm up

16

�and then we played all the teams coming through Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico
you know, he had them all booked for us. 50:55
Interviewer: “This is still professional ball though and you’re still getting paid?”
Oh yeah, we changed our name to All American that was it, All American Girls
Professional Baseball rather than saying Fort Wayne Daisies or something like that, but
we had the same uniforms.
Interviewer: “What did you end up doing after you—did you continue to play
baseball after three years or what?”
Well, I was in Fort Wayne, Indiana and I didn’t want to go back to school because it was
so much fun it sort of spoiled me from going to get my education or further my education
you know, so three of us rookies went to the cookie factory in Fort Wayne, Archway I
think it was called, and anyway two days was like an eternity and I couldn’t take it
anymore watching the cookies and besides I would have gotten thrown out because we
started throwing cookies you know, we were bad and we didn’t like that kind of work. I
went right to IUPU extension and signed up—I’m going back to school, so I started
college at IU Purdue. 52:03 Ernie, I can’t think of his last name now, Ernie Burns or
Ernie anyway, he was the general manager for the Daisies and he was also the general
manager for the Fort Wayne Comets hockey team, and so I needed a part time job while I
was going to school ,so he signed me up that I could work in the office with the tickets
and I got to meet all the players and stuff and went to the coliseum. It was great and I
had a good part time job and went to school, to college. I did that for two years and
then—gosh I don’t know what I did afterwards, after school, anyway, I was twenty-five
years of age. 53:00 When I was twenty-five years of age I went to medical records--oh,
I worked at Burnham City Hospital and stayed with Dotty Schroeder’s parents and I went
part time to Illinois State University then and came back and worked at Burnham City
Hospital for a year in admissions because I was always interested in medicine and
everything and I was sort of in pre-med. Then the medical record librarian came to me
and she said, “you can make a lot more money being in medical records”, so I talked with
her and sort of worked with her on weekends and everything. 53:38 I went to St.
Elizabeth’s Hospital in Danville, Illinois and spent a whole year with the Franciscan
Sisters of Sacred Heart from Mokena, Illinois and she was our instructor and only ten
people could enter the school and you had to have two years of college and then a year of
practice at the hospital to become a Registered Medical Records Librarian. 54:09 They
were making good money, like a hundred dollars a week, and at that time it was super
money, so I was all for that, but then I got to know the sisters and I thought they were
super, and then I got a calling to go to the convent, so two days after I graduated from
there I entered the Franciscan Sisters of the Sacred Heart in Mokena, Illinois. I went to
the convent, was a nun five years, it was really a nursing order except for some
elementary schools, so the reverend mother decided to have a Sacred Heart Academy, a
high school and she didn’t want any lay people and she understood that I played baseball
and she asked me if I wanted to be a phys-ed teacher, well she didn’t ask me you just did
it—some more discipline for me. 55:04 So I went to DePaul, Loyola and Illinois—I

17

�don’t know, it was another university there because I needed drivers ed and DePaul
didn’t have driver ed, so I went to that other college and got my driver ed and went to
DePaul and graduated from there in 1965. I taught at the academy because I had two
years of college I could do that in that private school and I taught in a private academy
and the girls were super. 55:44
Interviewer: “Did the girls know? Did you let them know?”
Well, later on they found out—DePaul grads you know, my picture was in the Sun Times
with my habit playing soccer, so I made headlines. I also got in a lot of trouble with
those state students because I would—one day I drove the reverend mother into town and
I could drive because I was I was older. Most nuns who were becoming nuns were under
twenty-five, like eighteen, nineteen, twenty and she knew I could drive since I was
teaching drivers ed anyhow. I had to drop her off downtown and I went up town to
Fullerton Avenue to DePaul University and the state student saw that I had a car, a big
Cadillac, you know people give stuff to the religious, so eleven o’clock came around and
they said, “hey Sister John Anthony, (that was my name) hey, let’s go to the baseball
game today the Cubs are playing”, and I said, “Cubs, yeah, but who are they playing?”
And they said, “The Reds, the Cincinnati Reds”. Because I was always talking about
Reds, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose and I said, “I can’t go, I don’t have any money and I
don’t think I’m allowed to go and I don’t think the reverend mother would like it”. 57:09
“We’ll never tell, you don’t need money and we’ll pay your way in”, and I thought, “ oh
gosh, should I or shouldn’t I? Well, what can it hurt, kids want to go”, so guys and gals,
we all piled in the car, I think I had ten of them and the Cubs ball park wasn’t too far
from Fullerton Avenue, so I wouldn’t use much gas, so we come up there, the parking is
horrendous, so I went right up there and he said, “hey lady what are you trying to do?”
And I said, “I want to know where I can park?” he saw my habit and he said, “oh, sister
the vice president isn’t here today, so you can park right here. Wow, the co-eds, “way to
go Sister John Anthony”, and I was a hero. 57:57 He said, “do you have tickets?” I
said, “tickets, I don’t even have any money”, and he said, “well he wasn’t going to be
there, so we could have his box seats”, so here I was, I was a hero. I mean I felt so good.
The Cubs were beating the Reds you know, so the ninth inning, the Reds and I was going
“way to go Cincinnati”, and I’d get all excited. I didn’t think anything about it—came
down, went and took them back to school ok, picked up reverend mother. The
Archbishop came into town, new Archbishop, so she had to meet him or something, so
we went back to Mokena and during vespers, it was just after six o’clock we would pray
the vespers, and all at once I get this tap on the shoulder and it’s the reverend mother.
We went out in the hall and she said, “Where were you this afternoon?” I said, “why?
You know I was at DePaul University I had things to do, study, went to my classes and
everything. 59:04 She said, “then how come I saw you on television cheering for the
Reds?” I never thought about it and I said, “mother, we’re not allowed to watch
television”, and she said, “the Archbishop was in town and I met with him and she was
on television. They interrupted the program saying that one of your nuns was cheering
the ball game”. Well, she didn’t like that too well and that was only one incident, so
anyway in 1965 left the convent before my final vows. Then I worked at the medical
records library in Dyer, Indiana and then taught in Gary, Indiana the next following and

18

�spent my summers and a year at Miami University in Ohio because I got my masters
degree and if you taught there your education was free at the college. :08 I took a big
deduction coming from Indiana to Ohio, but it all worked out the same. I got my masters
then I worked five years teaching phys-ed and science at Kendallville Jr. High in
Kendallville, Indiana. Then I came back to my home town, that’s when title nine was
trying to come out, 1972 to 1975, so I became the phys-ed teacher there and actually jr.
high school and high school that’s all I would have, but I said, “why do you want to start
a program in jr. high? Why don’t you start it?” Illinois has a super phys-ed program,
they still do, they have phys-ed every day from the first grade to the twelfth, but these
other states don’t have that, once a week or whatever, and Minster, my home town, didn’t
even have a phys-ed program for the elementary. They only had jr. high and freshman
and sophomore and I said, “What do you want to do that for? Start with the little kids”,
so I did, I had the whole nine classes per day; I really loaded myself up, but stayed there a
long time. 1:23 So then the teams started coming out where we could play state
tournaments and that’s what I wanted, I wanted to be a coach, I had a great desire. So we
had track the very first thing in Ohio and that was in 1975, so we had a track team and
came in runner up in the state. The kids didn’t know anything about running. They had
no idea what a discus or a shot put looked like because we didn’t have boys track either,
until we started the girls track program. Then we were very successful, 1976 through
1980 we were the state champs in our division, three divisions in track, and then 1982,
1985 and 1989, so we got eight state track titles and they talked me into cross country.
The first year, 1982, the girls, state champions, so I was very successful in that. 2:23
The town loved me and I loved them, that’s why I go back there all the time.
Interviewer: “You stayed in sports, of course you stayed in education, stayed in
sports, when did you start to realize that other people were recognizing what you
had done when you were just a teenager in your early days with the All American
Girls. Was there a time when you started to realize that people were knowing about
that?”
You mean as far as playing baseball?
Interviewer: Yes
Well, it was sort of dead because we all went our own way, we communicated, and I
communicated with the Weaver sisters and Dotty Schroeder and some of the others. We
always wrote Christmas cards, that was one thing we always did. To our teammates, but
eventually that falls apart too, so until they started the reunion and I think that was in
1982, it was forty years after we quit, well, yeah forty years I think. 3:40 We met in
Chicago for reunion, everybody was sort of hesitant, like in the movie, should I go or
shouldn’t I, I probably won’t recognize anybody, but everybody remembered the voices
or the walk or whatever and it was hilarious you know. “Is that really you?” Because
everybody changed so much and got so much older. The people that were twenty were in
their sixties—grey hair, white hair and thank God we had name tags. Once we got use to
it all these memories flowed back, but that was one heck of a nice thing to do. 4:27

19

�Interviewer: “You look back on that period of time as just part of the evolution, I
imagine, of your becoming the person that you are now. That was just one part of it
right? When did you realize that other people were looking at that period as
something very unusual and very special? Am I making myself clear?”
Oh yeah, first of all there wasn’t professional baseball for women—ended, it’s the only
time in history that was an organization where you got paid and professional. Jo Weaver
was a super runner, but she couldn’t enter the Olympics because the Olympics at that
time was amateur, so she couldn’t go to Olympics and she could have made it easily. We
had to understand that from that period until about 1970, girls athletics were taboo except
for CYO, anything voluntary, GAA, Girls Athletic Association, that’s all that kids had.
5:35 When I came back to Minster I thought, “wow, these kids don’t have anything, at
least I got something playing baseball and I got an education and I was taught in Illinois
where the phys-ed system is super”. I never played soccer or field hockey or anything
like that, so I came back there and I wanted to give something back to my town where
they appreciated me and so I started the whole program. 6:04
Interviewer: “Looking back on that period, and you have a lot of things to smile
about, do you think that particular period had an affect on you and the person you
are today? You were a teen and a young girl at that time. Was there anything that
happened then that you can look back on and say, “That helped me get here?”
What I did then, I wanted my girls in Minster to feel the same way that I did, that they
had an opportunity, they got a chance, “ok girls let’s go out”. It wasn’t easy , now you’re
talking about Germans, and the boys were still on one side of the room and girls were on
the other side. Phys-ed was still segregated; girls only, boys only and boys had a hard
time with it. 7:03 We didn’t as much and I was very fortunate to have some super
athletes that didn’t even know it because they never had a chance. I know how they felt
because I thought I was going to be stuck on the farm. I thought, “whoa, we gotta do
something”, and if we do something great people and if you have discipline—I put rules
out, no drinking, no this or you’re suspended, I didn’t even give them one chance. I said,
“this is it, if you want this we’re going to have to do it right and get on top immediately”,
so that’s what we did. 7:37 Like I said, “My athletes do it now because they’re
continuing my tradition over there because we twenty-three titles in that town and one
title for boys”. We showed them.
Interviewer: “Thank you so much, it was wonderful and you were wonderful.”
I don’t know, but I did get in five halls of fames with Annie Oakley, who was one of my
idols, The Ohio Women’s Hall of Fame with Doris Day and I was real happy about that
and of course and the National Track Coach Hall of Fame and the Ohio Track Hall of
Fame and in the Western Buckeye League.

20

�21

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                  <text>The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports.</text>
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                <text>Katie Horstman was born on April 14, 1935 in Minster, Ohio. Before joining the All American Girls Professional Baseball League she played baseball with her brother John. She started playing softball with the Catholic Youth Organization (CYI). At 15, Horstman started her professional career when Max Carey signed her to play for the Fort Wayne Daisies. In her first season of 1951 she played for the Kenosha Comets and the Fort Wayne Daisies as a pitcher and outfielder. Under Coach Jimmy Foxx in 1952, During her second season, in 1952 she played under Jimmy Foxx who switched her to play as a utility infielder. In 1953, she played for the Fort Wayne Daisies and the All Star Team as a third baseman and pitched part of an all-star game. Her biggest highlight was finishing her final season with a batting average of three twenty eight just as the All American Girls Professional League was ending. Afterwards, Horstman went on to become a Physical Education teacher.  </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Annemarie Hortman
World War II – Civilian
Part 1 – 1 hour 56 minutes 24 seconds
(00:00:18) Early Life - Rangsdorf
-Born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939
-Mother worked before Annemarie’s birth, but stayed home to care for her
-Father served in the Wehrmacht in Italy
-Uncle served on the Russian Front and was killed-in-action
-Father beat her, because he hated her
-It was a relief for him to report for service and go away
-Forced her to goosestep like a fascist soldier, and he hit her if she didn’t walk right
(00:03:34) Early Life – Ingolstadt
-Moved to Ingolstadt (near Munich) when she was a year old and mother was pregnant with brother
-Traveled there by train
-Remembers the train stopping by a ditch, and the passengers being ordered off the train
-Heard an air raid siren
-Didn’t know what it meant
-Stayed in Ingolstadt until September 1940
-Stayed with her mother and grandmother
-Put a blanket in front of the windows at night because of air raids
-Never remembers her mother giving the Nazi salute
-Remembers a siren at night
-Told to put on two pairs of underwear and socks, a winter coat, boots, a hat, and gloves
-Mother and grandmother had bag full of important documents and family jewelry
-Went to the bomb shelter in Ingolstadt
-Built into a hill
-Went through an iron door, down a flight of concrete steps into a concrete chamber
-There were wooden benches along the walls
-Noticed there was no other exit, and started to cry
-Then she looked up and saw air vents, which comforted her
-Came back to her grandmother’s house after the raid and saw it was fine
-Brother was born in Ingolstadt in August 1940
(00:18:40) Early Life – Return to Rangsdorf
-Moved into another house when they returned to Rangsdorf
-Remembers an old man that was their neighbor
-All of the children called him “uncle” and loved him
-Lived in a duplex house on the ground floor
-Remembers a woman that lived there that her mother instructed her to call “aunt”
-She and her brother were never allowed to go too far from the house
-Remembers she and her brother breaking their mother’s umbrella by using it like a small boat
-The house they lived in belonged to a Nazi officer
-The woman they called “aunt” was the officer’s wife
-Father came home during this time
-The Nazi officer came back, and they never saw him or the “aunt” ever again
-Her mother was allowed more food because she had two children

�-Father brought home canned fruit from Italy, but didn’t give any of it to the family
-He brought it to his mistress instead
-Lived in several different houses in Rangsdorf
-Only moved personal belongings, never furniture
-Moved from cottage to cottage (most likely former vacation homes of wealthy Germans)
-Always had the feeling that someone lived there, and there were forbidden rooms
-Most likely Jewish citizens hiding in the houses
-Stayed in a larger house for one night in the last two years of the war
-Stayed with an older man
-She and her family lived upstairs
(00:32:34) The Fall of Germany Pt. 1
-Russians bombed them day and night
-Always going up and down the stairs, stopped bothering to change clothes
-Remembers a Russian bomb landing near the house
-Adult went upstairs and went outside
-She got a bloody nose
-Possibly from the concussion
-All but that house and one other house survived
-The rest of the neighborhood was destroyed
-Numerous neighbors killed in that raid
-Last major action she remembers of the war
(00:38:09) Food in the War
-Mother usually bought flour, sugar, and other basic food items
-Remembers her younger brother expressing his younger
-Knows that some neighbors got extra food
-Most likely feeding hidden Jewish citizens
-Near the end of the war, resorted to eating beets, dandelions, and wild nuts
-The old man they lived with found some fresh tomatoes and gave them to Annemarie’s mother
(00:41:45) The Fall of Germany Pt. 2
-In 1945, the war came closer to Rangsdorf
-Russians were on the offensive, pushing toward Berlin
-Dealt with five or six months of near continuous air raids and bombardment
-Starvation was more of a problem for her during the war than direct violence
(00:43:03) Russian Occupation
-Russians came into Rangsdorf and labeled anything they wanted as “contraband”
-Confiscated the “contraband” for themselves
-Remembers a Russian soldier choking her, her brother, and her mother
-Neighbor got her and her brother away from the soldier
-The Russian soldier gave up the intimidation and left
-She told her mother that she hated the Russians
-Mother told her never to hate anyone just because of their country of origin
-Stuck with her her whole life
-Also told Annemarie to question why the Russians were so violent
-Possibly getting revenge for how Germans treated Russians
-She and other children hid in a neighbor’s rabbit cages when Russian soldiers came around
-Remembers playing near a bomb shelter
-Russian soldier ordered her to get away from it
-There was a live bomb near the shelter; soldier didn’t want Annemarie to get hurt
-Russians took food from the grocery store

�-German men tried to get some boxes of food while a Russian plane strafed them
-Mother went down to the grocery store and grabbed a box of food while being shot at
-Wound up being a box of candy, not real food like she wanted
-Russians came the next day and took everything, even Annemarie’s backpack
-One of the Russian soldiers broke a candy bar in half
-Gave each half to Annemarie and her brother
-Russian soldiers routinely searched their house
-Cut open the mattress to look for mattress
(00:53:38) Living in Post-War Rangsdorf
-Moved into an abandoned villa
-Father came home briefly after the war, then visited periodically to steal food
-Bringing the stolen food to his mistress in Berlin
-Got Annemarie’s mother pregnant
-Her mother found out the name and address of the mistress
-Confronted the mistress, said she was pregnant, and to leave the father alone
-Mistress refused
-Moved to another place in Ramsdorf around Christmas 1946
-She and her brother gathered pine branches to give to their mother to make her happy
-Father tried to take away the pine branches, but her mother intervened
-Mother took the pine branches to Berlin, and traded them for a little food as a Christmas gift
-While her father was home, Annemarie got in a fight and lost
-She came home from the fight, crying, and her father beat her
-Told her to go find the boy, fight him again, and win (which she did)
Tape stops here, and starts at (00:00:00) for Part 2, however this is not the “Part 2 disc”
(00:00:11) Living in Post-War Ingolstadt
-Father visited only to steal food
-Mother decided to leave Rangsdorf in 1947
-Moved back to Ingolstadt and stayed with her grandmother (mother’s mother) for a while
-Ingolstadt had been bombed, but was in better shape than Rangsdorf
-Occupied by American soldiers, not Russian soldiers
-Collected coal from trains
-She and her brother took a train to Berlin for an adventure
-Brother decided they should climb across the bridge’s structure to get over the rail yard
-Police officer caught her and her brother at the other side of the bridge
-Put them on a bridge back to Rangsdorf
(00:05:02) Getting to Ingolstadt
-Mother decided they needed to leave Rangsdorf to get away from the father
-Went to Berlin and got stopped by German officials
-Ordered to return to Rangsdorf
-Mother, Annemarie’s infant sister, little brother, and herself started walking on the highway
-Remembers sleeping under an overpass
-Kept walking and got to the East/West German border
-Russian soldiers forbade them from going through the checkpoint
-An old German man told them to go off the road, under a bridge, into the woods
-Stayed quiet and walked through the woods
-Waited for the Russian guard to pass, then they continued
-Ate a can of cold soup then passed into West Germany

�-Stood at the top of a hill and could still see the Russian checkpoint
-Picked up the highway and continued walking until they reached a train station in Bavaria
-Mother put them on a train and planned on joining them later
-Annemarie and her brother got off the train, but their mother wasn’t there
-Red Cross officials cared for them until their mother came back to the train station
-Finally boarded a train together and got to Ingolstadt
(00:19:50) Interactions with Russian Soldiers
-Remembers learning a Russian swear word from watching Russian soldiers trying to ride a bike
-They heard her repeating it and told her not to say it because it was a bad word
-Some of the Russians spoke limited German
-One female Russian soldier taught them how to ask for food from Russian soldiers
-Taught them a word that would endear them to the Russians
-Showed her that not all of the Russian soldiers were bad
(00:22:56) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 1
-Grandfather had everything confiscated by the Nazis, for speaking against Hitler
-Lost his home, job, and truck
-Sent to an insane asylum, then jail, then used for hard labor
-In 1947 he built a new house in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather had been a baker, but also made money dealing in scrap metal and scrap clothing
-Released from custody after the war
-Found his confiscated vehicle in the possession of a Nazi officer
-Officer’s mother sold it to him
-Officer came home and forced the grandfather to buy it again
-By 1947 he had rebuilt his life
-They stayed with her grandfather in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather had a cow that Annemarie cared for
-Built a barn and got a piglet
-Insects chewed off the piglet’s ears, so they let it live in the house
-Put it back in the barn once it was grown
-Someone shot and killed the pig
-Grandfather had the meat processed, but she and her family couldn’t eat it
(00:32:54) Going to School Pt. 1
-Had only six months of school in Rangsdorf
-Lost her hearing due to abscesses in her ears (possibly caused by bomb concussion)
-Eventually resolved itself, but never completely regained her hearing
(00:36:17) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 2
-Grandfather was self-sufficient and built everything he needed
-This included buildings and necessary machines
-Step-grandmother was Swiss
-People disliked her because she was brutally honest and Swiss
-Annemaried liked her step-grandmother because she was good and kind to Annemarie
-Had trouble finding an apartment in Ingolstadt due to Germans that fled East Germany
-They refused to leave Ingolstadt and returned to East Germany
-Mother finally got an apartment in Ingolstadt
-Remembers watching motorcycle races
-There were a lot of American soldiers in Ingolstadt
-Majority of them were good
-Some of them were bad and committed rapes
-American soldiers gave them food

�-Russian soldiers had just thrown food on the ground
-Amusement to watch children fight for food
-Noticed some economic and social changes happening in Germany
-Immediately after the war people had to buy food on credit
-Grandfather gave them candy and made his own liquor
-The apartment they moved into had been a former soldier’s home
(00:48:57) Going to School Pt. 2
-Began going to school normally in Ingolstadt
-Forced to speak High German, not Bavarian German
-7th grade teacher didn’t like her very much
-5th grade teacher liked her and defended her from the 7th / 8th grade teacher
-Allowed her to graduate as an 8th grader despite only finishing 7th grade
-Went to occupational school
-Studied business for one semester, but decided she didn’t like it
-Studied engineering, but didn’t complete the course
-Got married before she got an engineering job
-Thinks the 7th grade teacher may have been a former Nazi officer
-Didn’t like Annemarie because she looked Jewish (darker hair, non-Aryan features)
Part 2 – 1 hour 52 minutes 34 seconds
(00:00:28) Finding a Colt
-Right after the war ended they went looking for her paternal grandmother in Rangsdorf
-Saw a field of dead soldiers and dead livestock
-Found half of a dead soldier
-She and her brother wanted their mother to fix him like a doll
-Didn’t understand that a human couldn’t be fixed like that
-A colt came up to them and started following them
-Little brother wanted to keep the horse as a pet
-Passed a wooded area and saw six dead German soldiers
-Got to the village where the grandmother lived
-House was bombed out and abandoned
-Mother went inside and found some sugar
-Went to an aunt’s apartment and it was bombed out too
-Russian soldier came up and demanded the horse
-The children refused
-Another Russian soldier wanted to make a deal: a can of meat for the horse
-Their mother insisted they make the exchange
-Mother could read English
-Knew it was canned pork from the United States
(00:07:08) Finding a German Grenade
-In a swamp near Rangsdorf she and some other children found a German hand grenade
-Didn’t know what it was and they started playing catch with it
-A teenager came up to them and took the grenade
-Threw it into the swamp where it exploded
(00:08:55) Collecting Apples
-She and her brother went to the swamp near Rangsdorf to scavenge for mushrooms
-One of Annemarie’s friends came along and told them where they could find apples
-Brought them to an abandoned house with an apple orchard

�-Filled their bag and began walking home
-A Russian soldier wanted an apple, and Annemarie agreed to sell to him
-He bought two apples for 20 Deutsche Marks
-When she got home her mother told her to never deal with Russian soldiers again
(00:12:50) Acting in Ingolstadt
-Maternal grandmother and grandfather were divorced, but saw them both in Ingolstadt
-Grandmother had been an actress
-Got Annemarie involved with acting
-She did skits where she played an old woman or another skit where she danced
-Started acting when she was 12 years old and did it until she was 17 years old
-Performed at beer gardens doing song and dance routines
-Remembers dancing with a professional foxtrot dancer
-Didn’t know she could keep up with him
-Later learned that that dancer had been her grandmother’s dancing partner in the acting days
(00:24:23) Meeting Her First Husband
-Met her first husband through a gypsy friend
-She had been at a move and three boys followed her home, and her friend drove them off
-After that incident she was at a dance hall late into the night
-Friend’s boyfriend’s friend (an American soldier) offered to drive her home
-After that he started pursuing her
-The American soldier started visiting her every weekend and writing her letters
-Her mother and stepfather grew to like him
-Met her first husband in 1957
-At the time she was going to school for engineering and working as a seamstress
-Took an engineering test and tried to get a job with Audi
-They wanted her, but the quota was filled
-Asked her to come back next year, but she got married in that time
-One weekend Charlie (the GI) didn’t visit or write her any letters
-She worried that he was in trouble
-When he showed up she realized she loved him and wanted to marry him
(00:35:42) Marriage to First Husband
-Made an agreement to live in Germany for a few years then move to the United States
-Had a good marriage with Charlie when they lived in Germany
-Had a daughter together and they were a happy family
(00:37:40) Divorcing First Husband
-In 1960 they moved to the United States
-He flew back to the US with the Air Force
-Annemarie and her daughter flew to New York City then to Pittsburgh
-Her in-laws picked her up at Pittsburgh and mother-in-law instantly disliked her
-Charlie showed up three days later
-She found out that he was going with other women behind Annemarie’s back
-Found his wallet and realized he lied about how much money he made
-Gave her a meager stipend and spent the rest of his money on mistresses
-Found one of his mistress's phone number
-Started the divorce process and kicked him out of the house
-Called the mistress and said she could have Charlie, because she didn’t want him
-Moved into a trailer with her daughter, but couldn’t find a park
-Ex mother-in-law had connections and kept Annemarie out of the parks
-Found a private park and moved there

�-Ex-mother-in-law found out where Annemarie lived
-Started sending men to Annemarie to proposition her for sex to harass her
-Ex mother-in-law stole Annemarie’s television
-Ex mother-in-law started picking up Annemarie’s daughter from the babysitter
-Had to go through five babysitters to avoid the woman
-Friends advised her to get legal help
-Charlie had a powerful lawyer though, stopping Annemarie from taking legal action
(00:51:42) Second Marriage
-Got tricked into marrying another man
-Lived together from 1963 to 1964
-He abused her and her daughter
-In spring 1964 she called her parents to get plane tickets to Germany
-Returned to Ingolstadt with her daughter
-Husband followed them two weeks later
-Fortunately they worked opposite shifts in Germany
-Met her old friend’s fiance and befriended him
-Husband was convinced the fiance was pursuing Annemarie
-Her husband tried to slit her throat then started to beat her
-He left and she immediately started packing to get out of the house
-He came home and punched through the door’s window
-She woke up in an ambulance en route to a hospital
-Wrote a letter to his boss in the US and got him sent back to the US
-He left then sent tickets to her to go to the US
-She couldn’t stay in Germany or he would come back
-Moved to New York City
-Stayed with a cousin for a couple weeks then got a job as a housekeeper for a lawyer
Tape starts over at 00:00:00 however the story continues
(00:00:04) Living in New York City and Oregon
-Worked for the lawyer and cared for his baby girl
-She had a terrible diaper rash and Annemarie cured it
-Worked for the lawyer for a while until private detectives started coming to the house
-Looking for Annemarie on behalf of the second husband
-Went out to Oregon to be with an old friend on her wedding day
-Friend decided not to get married, but fortunately it got her out of New York City
-Did odd jobs and got assistance from welfare (paid for rent and electricity)
-Got food from a pantry once a month
-Met a couple through a friend
-They were good people, had children, and Annemarie’s daughter got along with the children
-Couple wanted to move back to Michigan and have Annemarie and her daughter join them
-They could live with them
(00:08:26) Living in Michigan
-Lived with the family from Oregon
-Got a job in Grand Rapids, Michigan, as a seamstress
-Experienced discrimination for being an immigrant
-As a result she befriended other shunned, immigrant workers
-Did good work as a seamstress and got a better job

�(00:14:33) Marrying Bill Hortman
-Met a man named Bill through one of her coworkers
-Started dating him, but was worried he would be like her previous husbands
-Realized he was a good man
-Married Bill Hortman
-He taught her how to golf
-They had two sons together, and Bill adopted her daughter
-Had to get the adoption approval from Charlie
-Ex-mother-in-law and her sister showed up demanding that Annemarie come home
-To get married to Bill she had to get divorced from her second husband
-They had separated, but never gotten a divorce
-Told him that she was pregnant and that prompted him to divorce her
-He dragged his feet for a while, then began the process
-Annemarie told the ex-mother-in-law to leave her alone
-Charlie’s mother tried to manipulate her by saying Charlie was in an abusive relationship
-Annemarie told her that he could deal with it
-Also had to deal with her second husband’s car payments because he couldn’t make them
-She had cosigned
-Eventually got away from that
-Charlie’s mother stopped bothering her after seeing how Annemarie and Bill loved each other
-She and Bill fought, but he never held a grudge or followed other women
-Bill served in the Marines as an aircraft mechanic in World War II
(00:36:57) Relationship with Parents (Adult Life)
-Her mother and stepfather started visiting in 1972
-Visited every three or four years
-During a visit in 2000 her stepfather had a stroke
-Stepfather enjoyed the US and always wanted to stay
-Flew stepfather back to Germany for treatment after his stroke for treatment by his doctor
-He recovered from the stroke
-In 2005 she flew back to Ingolstadt because her stepfather was in bad shape
-Her mother took care of him at home
-It was wonderful to see her mother in such a loving relationship
(00:44:34) Annnemarie’s Biological Father
-She never had contact with biological father in her adult life
-She has a photo of him from the 1950s
-Only keeps it as a part of the family record
-Biological father had tried to molest her in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather stopped him
-Not long after that incident Annemarie’s mother divorced the father
-He came back once to try and take her brother
-Her brother had lived with him for a few years
-He never let him get any gifts from Annemarie or her mother

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                <text>Annemarie Hortman was born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939. When she was only a year old she moved to Ingolstadt and stayed there until September 1940. At such a young age and that early in the war she remembers getting off a train during an air raid, and going into a community bomb shelter in Ingolstadt. For the rest of the war, Annemarie lived in Rangsdorf. During the last six months of the war she experienced daily bombings due to the Soviet Union’s invasion of Germany and final push toward Berlin. After Germany’s surrender, she and her family stayed in Rangsdorf during part of the Soviet occupation enduring the random and often arbitrary brutality of the Soviet troops. In 1947, Annemarie, her mother, her brother, and sister fled Rangsdorf on foot and sneaked across the East/West German border. They walked to Ingolstadt where she lived until she got married to an American serviceman. Annemarie and her first husband had a child and moved to the United States in 1960. Due to her husband’s infidelity the first marriage failed, and after moving around the country and a second divorce, she met Bill Hortman and settled down with him in Walker, Michigan. </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Annemarie Hortman
World War II – Civilian
Part 1 – 1 hour 56 minutes 24 seconds
(00:00:18) Early Life - Rangsdorf
-Born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939
-Mother worked before Annemarie’s birth, but stayed home to care for her
-Father served in the Wehrmacht in Italy
-Uncle served on the Russian Front and was killed-in-action
-Father beat her, because he hated her
-It was a relief for him to report for service and go away
-Forced her to goosestep like a fascist soldier, and he hit her if she didn’t walk right
(00:03:34) Early Life – Ingolstadt
-Moved to Ingolstadt (near Munich) when she was a year old and mother was pregnant with brother
-Traveled there by train
-Remembers the train stopping by a ditch, and the passengers being ordered off the train
-Heard an air raid siren
-Didn’t know what it meant
-Stayed in Ingolstadt until September 1940
-Stayed with her mother and grandmother
-Put a blanket in front of the windows at night because of air raids
-Never remembers her mother giving the Nazi salute
-Remembers a siren at night
-Told to put on two pairs of underwear and socks, a winter coat, boots, a hat, and gloves
-Mother and grandmother had bag full of important documents and family jewelry
-Went to the bomb shelter in Ingolstadt
-Built into a hill
-Went through an iron door, down a flight of concrete steps into a concrete chamber
-There were wooden benches along the walls
-Noticed there was no other exit, and started to cry
-Then she looked up and saw air vents, which comforted her
-Came back to her grandmother’s house after the raid and saw it was fine
-Brother was born in Ingolstadt in August 1940
(00:18:40) Early Life – Return to Rangsdorf
-Moved into another house when they returned to Rangsdorf
-Remembers an old man that was their neighbor
-All of the children called him “uncle” and loved him
-Lived in a duplex house on the ground floor
-Remembers a woman that lived there that her mother instructed her to call “aunt”
-She and her brother were never allowed to go too far from the house
-Remembers she and her brother breaking their mother’s umbrella by using it like a small boat
-The house they lived in belonged to a Nazi officer
-The woman they called “aunt” was the officer’s wife
-Father came home during this time
-The Nazi officer came back, and they never saw him or the “aunt” ever again
-Her mother was allowed more food because she had two children

�-Father brought home canned fruit from Italy, but didn’t give any of it to the family
-He brought it to his mistress instead
-Lived in several different houses in Rangsdorf
-Only moved personal belongings, never furniture
-Moved from cottage to cottage (most likely former vacation homes of wealthy Germans)
-Always had the feeling that someone lived there, and there were forbidden rooms
-Most likely Jewish citizens hiding in the houses
-Stayed in a larger house for one night in the last two years of the war
-Stayed with an older man
-She and her family lived upstairs
(00:32:34) The Fall of Germany Pt. 1
-Russians bombed them day and night
-Always going up and down the stairs, stopped bothering to change clothes
-Remembers a Russian bomb landing near the house
-Adult went upstairs and went outside
-She got a bloody nose
-Possibly from the concussion
-All but that house and one other house survived
-The rest of the neighborhood was destroyed
-Numerous neighbors killed in that raid
-Last major action she remembers of the war
(00:38:09) Food in the War
-Mother usually bought flour, sugar, and other basic food items
-Remembers her younger brother expressing his younger
-Knows that some neighbors got extra food
-Most likely feeding hidden Jewish citizens
-Near the end of the war, resorted to eating beets, dandelions, and wild nuts
-The old man they lived with found some fresh tomatoes and gave them to Annemarie’s mother
(00:41:45) The Fall of Germany Pt. 2
-In 1945, the war came closer to Rangsdorf
-Russians were on the offensive, pushing toward Berlin
-Dealt with five or six months of near continuous air raids and bombardment
-Starvation was more of a problem for her during the war than direct violence
(00:43:03) Russian Occupation
-Russians came into Rangsdorf and labeled anything they wanted as “contraband”
-Confiscated the “contraband” for themselves
-Remembers a Russian soldier choking her, her brother, and her mother
-Neighbor got her and her brother away from the soldier
-The Russian soldier gave up the intimidation and left
-She told her mother that she hated the Russians
-Mother told her never to hate anyone just because of their country of origin
-Stuck with her her whole life
-Also told Annemarie to question why the Russians were so violent
-Possibly getting revenge for how Germans treated Russians
-She and other children hid in a neighbor’s rabbit cages when Russian soldiers came around
-Remembers playing near a bomb shelter
-Russian soldier ordered her to get away from it
-There was a live bomb near the shelter; soldier didn’t want Annemarie to get hurt
-Russians took food from the grocery store

�-German men tried to get some boxes of food while a Russian plane strafed them
-Mother went down to the grocery store and grabbed a box of food while being shot at
-Wound up being a box of candy, not real food like she wanted
-Russians came the next day and took everything, even Annemarie’s backpack
-One of the Russian soldiers broke a candy bar in half
-Gave each half to Annemarie and her brother
-Russian soldiers routinely searched their house
-Cut open the mattress to look for mattress
(00:53:38) Living in Post-War Rangsdorf
-Moved into an abandoned villa
-Father came home briefly after the war, then visited periodically to steal food
-Bringing the stolen food to his mistress in Berlin
-Got Annemarie’s mother pregnant
-Her mother found out the name and address of the mistress
-Confronted the mistress, said she was pregnant, and to leave the father alone
-Mistress refused
-Moved to another place in Ramsdorf around Christmas 1946
-She and her brother gathered pine branches to give to their mother to make her happy
-Father tried to take away the pine branches, but her mother intervened
-Mother took the pine branches to Berlin, and traded them for a little food as a Christmas gift
-While her father was home, Annemarie got in a fight and lost
-She came home from the fight, crying, and her father beat her
-Told her to go find the boy, fight him again, and win (which she did)
Tape stops here, and starts at (00:00:00) for Part 2, however this is not the “Part 2 disc”
(00:00:11) Living in Post-War Ingolstadt
-Father visited only to steal food
-Mother decided to leave Rangsdorf in 1947
-Moved back to Ingolstadt and stayed with her grandmother (mother’s mother) for a while
-Ingolstadt had been bombed, but was in better shape than Rangsdorf
-Occupied by American soldiers, not Russian soldiers
-Collected coal from trains
-She and her brother took a train to Berlin for an adventure
-Brother decided they should climb across the bridge’s structure to get over the rail yard
-Police officer caught her and her brother at the other side of the bridge
-Put them on a bridge back to Rangsdorf
(00:05:02) Getting to Ingolstadt
-Mother decided they needed to leave Rangsdorf to get away from the father
-Went to Berlin and got stopped by German officials
-Ordered to return to Rangsdorf
-Mother, Annemarie’s infant sister, little brother, and herself started walking on the highway
-Remembers sleeping under an overpass
-Kept walking and got to the East/West German border
-Russian soldiers forbade them from going through the checkpoint
-An old German man told them to go off the road, under a bridge, into the woods
-Stayed quiet and walked through the woods
-Waited for the Russian guard to pass, then they continued
-Ate a can of cold soup then passed into West Germany

�-Stood at the top of a hill and could still see the Russian checkpoint
-Picked up the highway and continued walking until they reached a train station in Bavaria
-Mother put them on a train and planned on joining them later
-Annemarie and her brother got off the train, but their mother wasn’t there
-Red Cross officials cared for them until their mother came back to the train station
-Finally boarded a train together and got to Ingolstadt
(00:19:50) Interactions with Russian Soldiers
-Remembers learning a Russian swear word from watching Russian soldiers trying to ride a bike
-They heard her repeating it and told her not to say it because it was a bad word
-Some of the Russians spoke limited German
-One female Russian soldier taught them how to ask for food from Russian soldiers
-Taught them a word that would endear them to the Russians
-Showed her that not all of the Russian soldiers were bad
(00:22:56) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 1
-Grandfather had everything confiscated by the Nazis, for speaking against Hitler
-Lost his home, job, and truck
-Sent to an insane asylum, then jail, then used for hard labor
-In 1947 he built a new house in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather had been a baker, but also made money dealing in scrap metal and scrap clothing
-Released from custody after the war
-Found his confiscated vehicle in the possession of a Nazi officer
-Officer’s mother sold it to him
-Officer came home and forced the grandfather to buy it again
-By 1947 he had rebuilt his life
-They stayed with her grandfather in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather had a cow that Annemarie cared for
-Built a barn and got a piglet
-Insects chewed off the piglet’s ears, so they let it live in the house
-Put it back in the barn once it was grown
-Someone shot and killed the pig
-Grandfather had the meat processed, but she and her family couldn’t eat it
(00:32:54) Going to School Pt. 1
-Had only six months of school in Rangsdorf
-Lost her hearing due to abscesses in her ears (possibly caused by bomb concussion)
-Eventually resolved itself, but never completely regained her hearing
(00:36:17) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 2
-Grandfather was self-sufficient and built everything he needed
-This included buildings and necessary machines
-Step-grandmother was Swiss
-People disliked her because she was brutally honest and Swiss
-Annemaried liked her step-grandmother because she was good and kind to Annemarie
-Had trouble finding an apartment in Ingolstadt due to Germans that fled East Germany
-They refused to leave Ingolstadt and returned to East Germany
-Mother finally got an apartment in Ingolstadt
-Remembers watching motorcycle races
-There were a lot of American soldiers in Ingolstadt
-Majority of them were good
-Some of them were bad and committed rapes
-American soldiers gave them food

�-Russian soldiers had just thrown food on the ground
-Amusement to watch children fight for food
-Noticed some economic and social changes happening in Germany
-Immediately after the war people had to buy food on credit
-Grandfather gave them candy and made his own liquor
-The apartment they moved into had been a former soldier’s home
(00:48:57) Going to School Pt. 2
-Began going to school normally in Ingolstadt
-Forced to speak High German, not Bavarian German
-7th grade teacher didn’t like her very much
-5th grade teacher liked her and defended her from the 7th / 8th grade teacher
-Allowed her to graduate as an 8th grader despite only finishing 7th grade
-Went to occupational school
-Studied business for one semester, but decided she didn’t like it
-Studied engineering, but didn’t complete the course
-Got married before she got an engineering job
-Thinks the 7th grade teacher may have been a former Nazi officer
-Didn’t like Annemarie because she looked Jewish (darker hair, non-Aryan features)
Part 2 – 1 hour 52 minutes 34 seconds
(00:00:28) Finding a Colt
-Right after the war ended they went looking for her paternal grandmother in Rangsdorf
-Saw a field of dead soldiers and dead livestock
-Found half of a dead soldier
-She and her brother wanted their mother to fix him like a doll
-Didn’t understand that a human couldn’t be fixed like that
-A colt came up to them and started following them
-Little brother wanted to keep the horse as a pet
-Passed a wooded area and saw six dead German soldiers
-Got to the village where the grandmother lived
-House was bombed out and abandoned
-Mother went inside and found some sugar
-Went to an aunt’s apartment and it was bombed out too
-Russian soldier came up and demanded the horse
-The children refused
-Another Russian soldier wanted to make a deal: a can of meat for the horse
-Their mother insisted they make the exchange
-Mother could read English
-Knew it was canned pork from the United States
(00:07:08) Finding a German Grenade
-In a swamp near Rangsdorf she and some other children found a German hand grenade
-Didn’t know what it was and they started playing catch with it
-A teenager came up to them and took the grenade
-Threw it into the swamp where it exploded
(00:08:55) Collecting Apples
-She and her brother went to the swamp near Rangsdorf to scavenge for mushrooms
-One of Annemarie’s friends came along and told them where they could find apples
-Brought them to an abandoned house with an apple orchard

�-Filled their bag and began walking home
-A Russian soldier wanted an apple, and Annemarie agreed to sell to him
-He bought two apples for 20 Deutsche Marks
-When she got home her mother told her to never deal with Russian soldiers again
(00:12:50) Acting in Ingolstadt
-Maternal grandmother and grandfather were divorced, but saw them both in Ingolstadt
-Grandmother had been an actress
-Got Annemarie involved with acting
-She did skits where she played an old woman or another skit where she danced
-Started acting when she was 12 years old and did it until she was 17 years old
-Performed at beer gardens doing song and dance routines
-Remembers dancing with a professional foxtrot dancer
-Didn’t know she could keep up with him
-Later learned that that dancer had been her grandmother’s dancing partner in the acting days
(00:24:23) Meeting Her First Husband
-Met her first husband through a gypsy friend
-She had been at a move and three boys followed her home, and her friend drove them off
-After that incident she was at a dance hall late into the night
-Friend’s boyfriend’s friend (an American soldier) offered to drive her home
-After that he started pursuing her
-The American soldier started visiting her every weekend and writing her letters
-Her mother and stepfather grew to like him
-Met her first husband in 1957
-At the time she was going to school for engineering and working as a seamstress
-Took an engineering test and tried to get a job with Audi
-They wanted her, but the quota was filled
-Asked her to come back next year, but she got married in that time
-One weekend Charlie (the GI) didn’t visit or write her any letters
-She worried that he was in trouble
-When he showed up she realized she loved him and wanted to marry him
(00:35:42) Marriage to First Husband
-Made an agreement to live in Germany for a few years then move to the United States
-Had a good marriage with Charlie when they lived in Germany
-Had a daughter together and they were a happy family
(00:37:40) Divorcing First Husband
-In 1960 they moved to the United States
-He flew back to the US with the Air Force
-Annemarie and her daughter flew to New York City then to Pittsburgh
-Her in-laws picked her up at Pittsburgh and mother-in-law instantly disliked her
-Charlie showed up three days later
-She found out that he was going with other women behind Annemarie’s back
-Found his wallet and realized he lied about how much money he made
-Gave her a meager stipend and spent the rest of his money on mistresses
-Found one of his mistress's phone number
-Started the divorce process and kicked him out of the house
-Called the mistress and said she could have Charlie, because she didn’t want him
-Moved into a trailer with her daughter, but couldn’t find a park
-Ex mother-in-law had connections and kept Annemarie out of the parks
-Found a private park and moved there

�-Ex-mother-in-law found out where Annemarie lived
-Started sending men to Annemarie to proposition her for sex to harass her
-Ex mother-in-law stole Annemarie’s television
-Ex mother-in-law started picking up Annemarie’s daughter from the babysitter
-Had to go through five babysitters to avoid the woman
-Friends advised her to get legal help
-Charlie had a powerful lawyer though, stopping Annemarie from taking legal action
(00:51:42) Second Marriage
-Got tricked into marrying another man
-Lived together from 1963 to 1964
-He abused her and her daughter
-In spring 1964 she called her parents to get plane tickets to Germany
-Returned to Ingolstadt with her daughter
-Husband followed them two weeks later
-Fortunately they worked opposite shifts in Germany
-Met her old friend’s fiance and befriended him
-Husband was convinced the fiance was pursuing Annemarie
-Her husband tried to slit her throat then started to beat her
-He left and she immediately started packing to get out of the house
-He came home and punched through the door’s window
-She woke up in an ambulance en route to a hospital
-Wrote a letter to his boss in the US and got him sent back to the US
-He left then sent tickets to her to go to the US
-She couldn’t stay in Germany or he would come back
-Moved to New York City
-Stayed with a cousin for a couple weeks then got a job as a housekeeper for a lawyer
Tape starts over at 00:00:00 however the story continues
(00:00:04) Living in New York City and Oregon
-Worked for the lawyer and cared for his baby girl
-She had a terrible diaper rash and Annemarie cured it
-Worked for the lawyer for a while until private detectives started coming to the house
-Looking for Annemarie on behalf of the second husband
-Went out to Oregon to be with an old friend on her wedding day
-Friend decided not to get married, but fortunately it got her out of New York City
-Did odd jobs and got assistance from welfare (paid for rent and electricity)
-Got food from a pantry once a month
-Met a couple through a friend
-They were good people, had children, and Annemarie’s daughter got along with the children
-Couple wanted to move back to Michigan and have Annemarie and her daughter join them
-They could live with them
(00:08:26) Living in Michigan
-Lived with the family from Oregon
-Got a job in Grand Rapids, Michigan, as a seamstress
-Experienced discrimination for being an immigrant
-As a result she befriended other shunned, immigrant workers
-Did good work as a seamstress and got a better job

�(00:14:33) Marrying Bill Hortman
-Met a man named Bill through one of her coworkers
-Started dating him, but was worried he would be like her previous husbands
-Realized he was a good man
-Married Bill Hortman
-He taught her how to golf
-They had two sons together, and Bill adopted her daughter
-Had to get the adoption approval from Charlie
-Ex-mother-in-law and her sister showed up demanding that Annemarie come home
-To get married to Bill she had to get divorced from her second husband
-They had separated, but never gotten a divorce
-Told him that she was pregnant and that prompted him to divorce her
-He dragged his feet for a while, then began the process
-Annemarie told the ex-mother-in-law to leave her alone
-Charlie’s mother tried to manipulate her by saying Charlie was in an abusive relationship
-Annemarie told her that he could deal with it
-Also had to deal with her second husband’s car payments because he couldn’t make them
-She had cosigned
-Eventually got away from that
-Charlie’s mother stopped bothering her after seeing how Annemarie and Bill loved each other
-She and Bill fought, but he never held a grudge or followed other women
-Bill served in the Marines as an aircraft mechanic in World War II
(00:36:57) Relationship with Parents (Adult Life)
-Her mother and stepfather started visiting in 1972
-Visited every three or four years
-During a visit in 2000 her stepfather had a stroke
-Stepfather enjoyed the US and always wanted to stay
-Flew stepfather back to Germany for treatment after his stroke for treatment by his doctor
-He recovered from the stroke
-In 2005 she flew back to Ingolstadt because her stepfather was in bad shape
-Her mother took care of him at home
-It was wonderful to see her mother in such a loving relationship
(00:44:34) Annnemarie’s Biological Father
-She never had contact with biological father in her adult life
-She has a photo of him from the 1950s
-Only keeps it as a part of the family record
-Biological father had tried to molest her in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather stopped him
-Not long after that incident Annemarie’s mother divorced the father
-He came back once to try and take her brother
-Her brother had lived with him for a few years
-He never let him get any gifts from Annemarie or her mother

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Annemarie Hortman was born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939. When she was only a year old she moved to Ingolstadt and stayed there until September 1940. At such a young age and that early in the war she remembers getting off a train during an air raid, and going into a community bomb shelter in Ingolstadt. For the rest of the war, Annemarie lived in Rangsdorf. During the last six months of the war she experienced daily bombings due to the Soviet Union’s invasion of Germany and final push toward Berlin. After Germany’s surrender, she and her family stayed in Rangsdorf during part of the Soviet occupation enduring the random and often arbitrary brutality of the Soviet troops. In 1947, Annemarie, her mother, her brother, and sister fled Rangsdorf on foot and sneaked across the East/West German border. They walked to Ingolstadt where she lived until she got married to an American serviceman. Annemarie and her first husband had a child and moved to the United States in 1960. Due to her husband’s infidelity the first marriage failed, and after moving around the country and a second divorce, she met Bill Hortman and settled down with him in Walker, Michigan. </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Annemarie Hortman
World War II – Civilian
Part 1 – 1 hour 56 minutes 24 seconds
(00:00:18) Early Life - Rangsdorf
-Born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939
-Mother worked before Annemarie’s birth, but stayed home to care for her
-Father served in the Wehrmacht in Italy
-Uncle served on the Russian Front and was killed-in-action
-Father beat her, because he hated her
-It was a relief for him to report for service and go away
-Forced her to goosestep like a fascist soldier, and he hit her if she didn’t walk right
(00:03:34) Early Life – Ingolstadt
-Moved to Ingolstadt (near Munich) when she was a year old and mother was pregnant with brother
-Traveled there by train
-Remembers the train stopping by a ditch, and the passengers being ordered off the train
-Heard an air raid siren
-Didn’t know what it meant
-Stayed in Ingolstadt until September 1940
-Stayed with her mother and grandmother
-Put a blanket in front of the windows at night because of air raids
-Never remembers her mother giving the Nazi salute
-Remembers a siren at night
-Told to put on two pairs of underwear and socks, a winter coat, boots, a hat, and gloves
-Mother and grandmother had bag full of important documents and family jewelry
-Went to the bomb shelter in Ingolstadt
-Built into a hill
-Went through an iron door, down a flight of concrete steps into a concrete chamber
-There were wooden benches along the walls
-Noticed there was no other exit, and started to cry
-Then she looked up and saw air vents, which comforted her
-Came back to her grandmother’s house after the raid and saw it was fine
-Brother was born in Ingolstadt in August 1940
(00:18:40) Early Life – Return to Rangsdorf
-Moved into another house when they returned to Rangsdorf
-Remembers an old man that was their neighbor
-All of the children called him “uncle” and loved him
-Lived in a duplex house on the ground floor
-Remembers a woman that lived there that her mother instructed her to call “aunt”
-She and her brother were never allowed to go too far from the house
-Remembers she and her brother breaking their mother’s umbrella by using it like a small boat
-The house they lived in belonged to a Nazi officer
-The woman they called “aunt” was the officer’s wife
-Father came home during this time
-The Nazi officer came back, and they never saw him or the “aunt” ever again
-Her mother was allowed more food because she had two children

�-Father brought home canned fruit from Italy, but didn’t give any of it to the family
-He brought it to his mistress instead
-Lived in several different houses in Rangsdorf
-Only moved personal belongings, never furniture
-Moved from cottage to cottage (most likely former vacation homes of wealthy Germans)
-Always had the feeling that someone lived there, and there were forbidden rooms
-Most likely Jewish citizens hiding in the houses
-Stayed in a larger house for one night in the last two years of the war
-Stayed with an older man
-She and her family lived upstairs
(00:32:34) The Fall of Germany Pt. 1
-Russians bombed them day and night
-Always going up and down the stairs, stopped bothering to change clothes
-Remembers a Russian bomb landing near the house
-Adult went upstairs and went outside
-She got a bloody nose
-Possibly from the concussion
-All but that house and one other house survived
-The rest of the neighborhood was destroyed
-Numerous neighbors killed in that raid
-Last major action she remembers of the war
(00:38:09) Food in the War
-Mother usually bought flour, sugar, and other basic food items
-Remembers her younger brother expressing his younger
-Knows that some neighbors got extra food
-Most likely feeding hidden Jewish citizens
-Near the end of the war, resorted to eating beets, dandelions, and wild nuts
-The old man they lived with found some fresh tomatoes and gave them to Annemarie’s mother
(00:41:45) The Fall of Germany Pt. 2
-In 1945, the war came closer to Rangsdorf
-Russians were on the offensive, pushing toward Berlin
-Dealt with five or six months of near continuous air raids and bombardment
-Starvation was more of a problem for her during the war than direct violence
(00:43:03) Russian Occupation
-Russians came into Rangsdorf and labeled anything they wanted as “contraband”
-Confiscated the “contraband” for themselves
-Remembers a Russian soldier choking her, her brother, and her mother
-Neighbor got her and her brother away from the soldier
-The Russian soldier gave up the intimidation and left
-She told her mother that she hated the Russians
-Mother told her never to hate anyone just because of their country of origin
-Stuck with her her whole life
-Also told Annemarie to question why the Russians were so violent
-Possibly getting revenge for how Germans treated Russians
-She and other children hid in a neighbor’s rabbit cages when Russian soldiers came around
-Remembers playing near a bomb shelter
-Russian soldier ordered her to get away from it
-There was a live bomb near the shelter; soldier didn’t want Annemarie to get hurt
-Russians took food from the grocery store

�-German men tried to get some boxes of food while a Russian plane strafed them
-Mother went down to the grocery store and grabbed a box of food while being shot at
-Wound up being a box of candy, not real food like she wanted
-Russians came the next day and took everything, even Annemarie’s backpack
-One of the Russian soldiers broke a candy bar in half
-Gave each half to Annemarie and her brother
-Russian soldiers routinely searched their house
-Cut open the mattress to look for mattress
(00:53:38) Living in Post-War Rangsdorf
-Moved into an abandoned villa
-Father came home briefly after the war, then visited periodically to steal food
-Bringing the stolen food to his mistress in Berlin
-Got Annemarie’s mother pregnant
-Her mother found out the name and address of the mistress
-Confronted the mistress, said she was pregnant, and to leave the father alone
-Mistress refused
-Moved to another place in Ramsdorf around Christmas 1946
-She and her brother gathered pine branches to give to their mother to make her happy
-Father tried to take away the pine branches, but her mother intervened
-Mother took the pine branches to Berlin, and traded them for a little food as a Christmas gift
-While her father was home, Annemarie got in a fight and lost
-She came home from the fight, crying, and her father beat her
-Told her to go find the boy, fight him again, and win (which she did)
Tape stops here, and starts at (00:00:00) for Part 2, however this is not the “Part 2 disc”
(00:00:11) Living in Post-War Ingolstadt
-Father visited only to steal food
-Mother decided to leave Rangsdorf in 1947
-Moved back to Ingolstadt and stayed with her grandmother (mother’s mother) for a while
-Ingolstadt had been bombed, but was in better shape than Rangsdorf
-Occupied by American soldiers, not Russian soldiers
-Collected coal from trains
-She and her brother took a train to Berlin for an adventure
-Brother decided they should climb across the bridge’s structure to get over the rail yard
-Police officer caught her and her brother at the other side of the bridge
-Put them on a bridge back to Rangsdorf
(00:05:02) Getting to Ingolstadt
-Mother decided they needed to leave Rangsdorf to get away from the father
-Went to Berlin and got stopped by German officials
-Ordered to return to Rangsdorf
-Mother, Annemarie’s infant sister, little brother, and herself started walking on the highway
-Remembers sleeping under an overpass
-Kept walking and got to the East/West German border
-Russian soldiers forbade them from going through the checkpoint
-An old German man told them to go off the road, under a bridge, into the woods
-Stayed quiet and walked through the woods
-Waited for the Russian guard to pass, then they continued
-Ate a can of cold soup then passed into West Germany

�-Stood at the top of a hill and could still see the Russian checkpoint
-Picked up the highway and continued walking until they reached a train station in Bavaria
-Mother put them on a train and planned on joining them later
-Annemarie and her brother got off the train, but their mother wasn’t there
-Red Cross officials cared for them until their mother came back to the train station
-Finally boarded a train together and got to Ingolstadt
(00:19:50) Interactions with Russian Soldiers
-Remembers learning a Russian swear word from watching Russian soldiers trying to ride a bike
-They heard her repeating it and told her not to say it because it was a bad word
-Some of the Russians spoke limited German
-One female Russian soldier taught them how to ask for food from Russian soldiers
-Taught them a word that would endear them to the Russians
-Showed her that not all of the Russian soldiers were bad
(00:22:56) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 1
-Grandfather had everything confiscated by the Nazis, for speaking against Hitler
-Lost his home, job, and truck
-Sent to an insane asylum, then jail, then used for hard labor
-In 1947 he built a new house in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather had been a baker, but also made money dealing in scrap metal and scrap clothing
-Released from custody after the war
-Found his confiscated vehicle in the possession of a Nazi officer
-Officer’s mother sold it to him
-Officer came home and forced the grandfather to buy it again
-By 1947 he had rebuilt his life
-They stayed with her grandfather in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather had a cow that Annemarie cared for
-Built a barn and got a piglet
-Insects chewed off the piglet’s ears, so they let it live in the house
-Put it back in the barn once it was grown
-Someone shot and killed the pig
-Grandfather had the meat processed, but she and her family couldn’t eat it
(00:32:54) Going to School Pt. 1
-Had only six months of school in Rangsdorf
-Lost her hearing due to abscesses in her ears (possibly caused by bomb concussion)
-Eventually resolved itself, but never completely regained her hearing
(00:36:17) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 2
-Grandfather was self-sufficient and built everything he needed
-This included buildings and necessary machines
-Step-grandmother was Swiss
-People disliked her because she was brutally honest and Swiss
-Annemaried liked her step-grandmother because she was good and kind to Annemarie
-Had trouble finding an apartment in Ingolstadt due to Germans that fled East Germany
-They refused to leave Ingolstadt and returned to East Germany
-Mother finally got an apartment in Ingolstadt
-Remembers watching motorcycle races
-There were a lot of American soldiers in Ingolstadt
-Majority of them were good
-Some of them were bad and committed rapes
-American soldiers gave them food

�-Russian soldiers had just thrown food on the ground
-Amusement to watch children fight for food
-Noticed some economic and social changes happening in Germany
-Immediately after the war people had to buy food on credit
-Grandfather gave them candy and made his own liquor
-The apartment they moved into had been a former soldier’s home
(00:48:57) Going to School Pt. 2
-Began going to school normally in Ingolstadt
-Forced to speak High German, not Bavarian German
-7th grade teacher didn’t like her very much
-5th grade teacher liked her and defended her from the 7th / 8th grade teacher
-Allowed her to graduate as an 8th grader despite only finishing 7th grade
-Went to occupational school
-Studied business for one semester, but decided she didn’t like it
-Studied engineering, but didn’t complete the course
-Got married before she got an engineering job
-Thinks the 7th grade teacher may have been a former Nazi officer
-Didn’t like Annemarie because she looked Jewish (darker hair, non-Aryan features)
Part 2 – 1 hour 52 minutes 34 seconds
(00:00:28) Finding a Colt
-Right after the war ended they went looking for her paternal grandmother in Rangsdorf
-Saw a field of dead soldiers and dead livestock
-Found half of a dead soldier
-She and her brother wanted their mother to fix him like a doll
-Didn’t understand that a human couldn’t be fixed like that
-A colt came up to them and started following them
-Little brother wanted to keep the horse as a pet
-Passed a wooded area and saw six dead German soldiers
-Got to the village where the grandmother lived
-House was bombed out and abandoned
-Mother went inside and found some sugar
-Went to an aunt’s apartment and it was bombed out too
-Russian soldier came up and demanded the horse
-The children refused
-Another Russian soldier wanted to make a deal: a can of meat for the horse
-Their mother insisted they make the exchange
-Mother could read English
-Knew it was canned pork from the United States
(00:07:08) Finding a German Grenade
-In a swamp near Rangsdorf she and some other children found a German hand grenade
-Didn’t know what it was and they started playing catch with it
-A teenager came up to them and took the grenade
-Threw it into the swamp where it exploded
(00:08:55) Collecting Apples
-She and her brother went to the swamp near Rangsdorf to scavenge for mushrooms
-One of Annemarie’s friends came along and told them where they could find apples
-Brought them to an abandoned house with an apple orchard

�-Filled their bag and began walking home
-A Russian soldier wanted an apple, and Annemarie agreed to sell to him
-He bought two apples for 20 Deutsche Marks
-When she got home her mother told her to never deal with Russian soldiers again
(00:12:50) Acting in Ingolstadt
-Maternal grandmother and grandfather were divorced, but saw them both in Ingolstadt
-Grandmother had been an actress
-Got Annemarie involved with acting
-She did skits where she played an old woman or another skit where she danced
-Started acting when she was 12 years old and did it until she was 17 years old
-Performed at beer gardens doing song and dance routines
-Remembers dancing with a professional foxtrot dancer
-Didn’t know she could keep up with him
-Later learned that that dancer had been her grandmother’s dancing partner in the acting days
(00:24:23) Meeting Her First Husband
-Met her first husband through a gypsy friend
-She had been at a move and three boys followed her home, and her friend drove them off
-After that incident she was at a dance hall late into the night
-Friend’s boyfriend’s friend (an American soldier) offered to drive her home
-After that he started pursuing her
-The American soldier started visiting her every weekend and writing her letters
-Her mother and stepfather grew to like him
-Met her first husband in 1957
-At the time she was going to school for engineering and working as a seamstress
-Took an engineering test and tried to get a job with Audi
-They wanted her, but the quota was filled
-Asked her to come back next year, but she got married in that time
-One weekend Charlie (the GI) didn’t visit or write her any letters
-She worried that he was in trouble
-When he showed up she realized she loved him and wanted to marry him
(00:35:42) Marriage to First Husband
-Made an agreement to live in Germany for a few years then move to the United States
-Had a good marriage with Charlie when they lived in Germany
-Had a daughter together and they were a happy family
(00:37:40) Divorcing First Husband
-In 1960 they moved to the United States
-He flew back to the US with the Air Force
-Annemarie and her daughter flew to New York City then to Pittsburgh
-Her in-laws picked her up at Pittsburgh and mother-in-law instantly disliked her
-Charlie showed up three days later
-She found out that he was going with other women behind Annemarie’s back
-Found his wallet and realized he lied about how much money he made
-Gave her a meager stipend and spent the rest of his money on mistresses
-Found one of his mistress's phone number
-Started the divorce process and kicked him out of the house
-Called the mistress and said she could have Charlie, because she didn’t want him
-Moved into a trailer with her daughter, but couldn’t find a park
-Ex mother-in-law had connections and kept Annemarie out of the parks
-Found a private park and moved there

�-Ex-mother-in-law found out where Annemarie lived
-Started sending men to Annemarie to proposition her for sex to harass her
-Ex mother-in-law stole Annemarie’s television
-Ex mother-in-law started picking up Annemarie’s daughter from the babysitter
-Had to go through five babysitters to avoid the woman
-Friends advised her to get legal help
-Charlie had a powerful lawyer though, stopping Annemarie from taking legal action
(00:51:42) Second Marriage
-Got tricked into marrying another man
-Lived together from 1963 to 1964
-He abused her and her daughter
-In spring 1964 she called her parents to get plane tickets to Germany
-Returned to Ingolstadt with her daughter
-Husband followed them two weeks later
-Fortunately they worked opposite shifts in Germany
-Met her old friend’s fiance and befriended him
-Husband was convinced the fiance was pursuing Annemarie
-Her husband tried to slit her throat then started to beat her
-He left and she immediately started packing to get out of the house
-He came home and punched through the door’s window
-She woke up in an ambulance en route to a hospital
-Wrote a letter to his boss in the US and got him sent back to the US
-He left then sent tickets to her to go to the US
-She couldn’t stay in Germany or he would come back
-Moved to New York City
-Stayed with a cousin for a couple weeks then got a job as a housekeeper for a lawyer
Tape starts over at 00:00:00 however the story continues
(00:00:04) Living in New York City and Oregon
-Worked for the lawyer and cared for his baby girl
-She had a terrible diaper rash and Annemarie cured it
-Worked for the lawyer for a while until private detectives started coming to the house
-Looking for Annemarie on behalf of the second husband
-Went out to Oregon to be with an old friend on her wedding day
-Friend decided not to get married, but fortunately it got her out of New York City
-Did odd jobs and got assistance from welfare (paid for rent and electricity)
-Got food from a pantry once a month
-Met a couple through a friend
-They were good people, had children, and Annemarie’s daughter got along with the children
-Couple wanted to move back to Michigan and have Annemarie and her daughter join them
-They could live with them
(00:08:26) Living in Michigan
-Lived with the family from Oregon
-Got a job in Grand Rapids, Michigan, as a seamstress
-Experienced discrimination for being an immigrant
-As a result she befriended other shunned, immigrant workers
-Did good work as a seamstress and got a better job

�(00:14:33) Marrying Bill Hortman
-Met a man named Bill through one of her coworkers
-Started dating him, but was worried he would be like her previous husbands
-Realized he was a good man
-Married Bill Hortman
-He taught her how to golf
-They had two sons together, and Bill adopted her daughter
-Had to get the adoption approval from Charlie
-Ex-mother-in-law and her sister showed up demanding that Annemarie come home
-To get married to Bill she had to get divorced from her second husband
-They had separated, but never gotten a divorce
-Told him that she was pregnant and that prompted him to divorce her
-He dragged his feet for a while, then began the process
-Annemarie told the ex-mother-in-law to leave her alone
-Charlie’s mother tried to manipulate her by saying Charlie was in an abusive relationship
-Annemarie told her that he could deal with it
-Also had to deal with her second husband’s car payments because he couldn’t make them
-She had cosigned
-Eventually got away from that
-Charlie’s mother stopped bothering her after seeing how Annemarie and Bill loved each other
-She and Bill fought, but he never held a grudge or followed other women
-Bill served in the Marines as an aircraft mechanic in World War II
(00:36:57) Relationship with Parents (Adult Life)
-Her mother and stepfather started visiting in 1972
-Visited every three or four years
-During a visit in 2000 her stepfather had a stroke
-Stepfather enjoyed the US and always wanted to stay
-Flew stepfather back to Germany for treatment after his stroke for treatment by his doctor
-He recovered from the stroke
-In 2005 she flew back to Ingolstadt because her stepfather was in bad shape
-Her mother took care of him at home
-It was wonderful to see her mother in such a loving relationship
(00:44:34) Annnemarie’s Biological Father
-She never had contact with biological father in her adult life
-She has a photo of him from the 1950s
-Only keeps it as a part of the family record
-Biological father had tried to molest her in Ingolstadt
-Grandfather stopped him
-Not long after that incident Annemarie’s mother divorced the father
-He came back once to try and take her brother
-Her brother had lived with him for a few years
-He never let him get any gifts from Annemarie or her mother

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Annemarie Hortman was born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939. When she was only a year old she moved to Ingolstadt and stayed there until September 1940. At such a young age and that early in the war she remembers getting off a train during an air raid, and going into a community bomb shelter in Ingolstadt. For the rest of the war, Annemarie lived in Rangsdorf. During the last six months of the war she experienced daily bombings due to the Soviet Union’s invasion of Germany and final push toward Berlin. After Germany’s surrender, she and her family stayed in Rangsdorf during part of the Soviet occupation enduring the random and often arbitrary brutality of the Soviet troops. In 1947, Annemarie, her mother, her brother, and sister fled Rangsdorf on foot and sneaked across the East/West German border. They walked to Ingolstadt where she lived until she got married to an American serviceman. Annemarie and her first husband had a child and moved to the United States in 1960. Due to her husband’s infidelity the first marriage failed, and after moving around the country and a second divorce, she met Bill Hortman and settled down with him in Walker, Michigan. </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans Project Interview
Melvin E. Hospital
(01:35:00)
[Note on time coding: Mr. Hospital jumped around quite a bit between topics, and the outline
below presents some parts of the interview out of order so as to make more sense to the reader.
The time codings preserve the original order of the interview.]
Pre-Enlistment (00:05)
•

Early life (01:10)
o Hospital gives background as to how he was adopted. (01:30) Was dropped off at
Harmon Keeper Hospital; kept for 2 weeks by an adapted family &amp; then was sent
to live in a Catholic orphanage in New Boston, MI. (02:23)
o Hospital then moves on to mention the conditions faced by boys and girls in
Germany living in orphanages and the type of work they were expected to do.
(05:02)
o Melvin Hospital, finally mentions, that he was born on Sept. 24th, 1920. (06:03)

•

Enlistment/Training (42:03)
o Why did they join/influences (42:05)

•



When he went down to the draft board he received an eligibility form
which made him eligible to join. (42:25)



Hospital first joined the Navy, 21 days after the invasion of Poland.
(48:44) Doesn’t mention anything about basic training. (48:44) Served for
a year in the Navy and then came back and was transferred to the Navy
Reserve. (51:56)



Hospital goes on to mention that he served with the Naval Reserve for 4
yrs, 4 months, &amp; 14 days.



When Pearl Harbor was bombed he was coming back from Carolina To
L.A. (53:20)



Briefly mentions that his POW camp was liberated by an English general.
(55:44)

Active Duty (06:35)

�o Prison Camp Experience (06:40)


Approximately 3,000 prisoners dug potatoes and defenses for the
Germans. After this the Germans loaded them onto trucks. Once they had
done so they stuck a pipe coming from the muffler into the truck and then
gassed all 3,000 and then burned their bodies. (06:43)



Hospital tells this experience because he was responsible in helping
dispose of the bodies. After his experience here, his job was to organize
soldier’s shoes which were then sent to neutral countries like Switzerland
(08:05)



He relates several experiences where he played tricks on his German
captors. (09:17)
•

In one instance, Hospital received cigarettes which he gave to a
German commander but didn’t give him any matches. (11:16)

•

In another instance he intentionally started a fire and called the
Germans to put it out. (12:55)



In one instance, Hospital finds eggs in someone’s lawn and shares them
with a German solider. Meanwhile, some German kids come to the fence
and start speaking German to Hospital. Eventually he learns the German
language. (15:33)



The commander of the German camp calls him into his office and tells
him in German that these kids like him and within 10 minutes writes
something in Latin which Hospital cannot understand. (17:10) From then
on, the Germans use Hospital as a means to find out about America.
(18:07)



Eventually, Hospital and the other prisoners go down to an international
trade center island in Spain. (19:10)



Hospital eventually ended up back near Frankfurt. While here, he
performs a variety of tasks such burial of soldiers and cutting of twigs
which the Germans then put together in bundles and use them to float
across rivers. In contrast, the Americans used pontoon bridges to get men
&amp; equipment across rivers. (21:38)



When American forces crossed rivers they used bailey bridges. The
Germans would hide in nearby farmhouses and would open up on the
approaching Americans from their machine gun emplacements. (22:20)

�

Hospital briefly describes a hill called the Berchtesgaden where Hitler
stayed. Also, mentions that the Germans told him about the Panzetta.
(25:13)



Hospital briefly describes how the Germans would hide and disguise their
tanks so that when the Americans walked by all they would see would be
unsalvageable tank parts. (27:02)



Hospital mentions Rommel’s failures in Africa and then goes into how
Rommel committed suicide since Hitler had fired him. (28:02) Also
describes how Rommel’s strategy to repair his tanks during nighttime met
with failure when American efforts disrupted this process because of
previous intel provided to the Americans by local peoples. (29:45)



Hospital goes on to mention that Rommel used apricot [cyanide] to
commit suicide upon Hitler’s request. (30:51)



He briefly mentions German women who trained hundreds of dogs to
catch escaped prisoners. To avoid them, a prisoner could open a car door,
let them in, &amp; then exit on the car on the other side so as to trap the dog.
(31:43)



Hospital briefly describes the German health system. (33:44) Afterwards,
he goes on to talk about various cooking techniques incorporated by the
Germans to prepare prison food. (36:40) Briefly discusses what food was
like in the 22 countries he traveled through. (37:05)



Makes reference to some of the various poisons employed by the Germans
and that trains in Germany were exclusively used by German troops.
(40:10)




Hospital then makes reference to how Germany’s food production worked.
(48:17) Making brief mention of the Monarchy 12-pound chicken whose
egg helped to feed the German people. (46:59)



Upon landing in Algiers he was captured by the Germans and sent to a
POW camp. (49:44) Doesn’t make mention to how it happened. (49:44)



In reference to his POW experience, Hospital mentions that he was in/out
of various prison camps in Russia, Poland, and Germany. (50:05) Spent 4
months in Russia. After that he was sent to one where his job was to burn
the dead bodies. (50:13)

�

Hospital mentions that an English general liberated his prison camp.
(55:30) His job at the time of his liberation was to sort different pairs of
shoes. (56:17)



Describes that the prison rations usually received by POWs included
cabbage, hard-bread, and potatoes. (56:59)

o Other Relevant Information (40:55)


Briefly mentions that Hitler got his power from a Volkswagen Union and
afterwards invaded Poland. Following this, Hospital mentions that Hitler
stole the Lipizzaner Stallions. (40:55)



Briefly describes a variety of assortment of facts regarding American
bombing campaigns &amp; ways the Germans employed to protect their
weaponry. (59:10)

After the Service (1:00:43)
•

After being discharged, Hospital discusses in great detail his part in helping with the
construction of the Mackinac Bridge. (1:01:24) Working as a ribbet heater, he describes
what his job entailed. (1:01:37) Worked on the bridge until they closed the project down
due to their being no safety groups and the loss of 11-crewmen working. (1:02:56)

•

Went on to work as a personal secretary for Henry Ford. Worked 3-5 hours a day for him.
Further mentions his responsibilities &amp; many encounters with Ford. (1:12:27) Worked a
year for Ford and briefly mentions that Ford died of pneumonia. (1:14:29)

•

Hospital reiterates, first how he was hired to be part of the Mackinac Bridge crew and
then his work with Henry Ford. (1:15:10) After working for Ford, he served in a variety
of roles first as a ticket holder at a local township park and then later as a firefighter.
(1:23:16)

•

Hospital then briefly discusses how he came to the nursing home. (1:29:41)

•

Briefly retells his story of escape and near-encounter of being recaptured by a German
squad looking for escaped POWs, mainly him. Mentions how he hid under pine needles
and foliage to evade detection for several days. (1:35:12)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Arthur Hotchkiss
Cold War/Vietnam Era
(39:26)
Entrance into the Military (00:40)








At the age of 17 Arthur had an interest in going into the military. (00:44)
He joined the Naval Reserve. A year later he was placed on a 2 year active duty stint. (00:48)
Due to his love for the Navy, Arthur enlisted for another 6 years after his 2 year active duty was
up. (1:10)
While in the Navy Arthur was involved in the Cuban Messily Crises as well as President
Kennedy’s flight to Europe. (1:16)
After he enlisted, Arthur was sent to 2 weeks of reserve boot camp at Great Lakes Naval Base in
Illinois in 1958. (1:39)
In 1959 when he was placed on active duty, he was required to take 4 more weeks of training at
Great Lakes.
In June of 1959 Arthur was placed in active duty aboard the destroyer USS Charles P. Cecil.
(2:00)

Active service (2:20)



Being a new sailor, Arthur was often questioned as well as put through initiations. (2:25)
He was made a 3rd class radio man and then a petty officer. (3:38)

Life on the Destroyer (3:14)




Men woke up at 6 AM.(3:16)
If not on duty during the day, men were assigned to clean the ship or chip paint. (4:10)
The destroyer had approx. 200 crew members. (5:14)

The Cuban Missile Crisis (5:50)








Arthur recalls receiving many messages via radio about the buildup of missiles in Cuba. (6:21)
In September/October of 1962 the men were told the ship was going near Cuba for training
excises. The men knew that this was not entirely true. (7:36)
Arthur recalled hearing several low flying planes. These planes carried marines to Guantanamo
Bay. (8:35)
In mid-October, the ship was to patrol Guantanamo Bay. The ship had lights placed on it at
night. (11:24)
When moving out of Guantanamo Bay harbor, he witnessed a ship collision between a military
vessel and a wooden ship. It was rumored that the wooden ship was taking pictures of
Guantanamo Naval base. (12:50)
While in the blockade, his ship picked up a Russian freighter. (14:05)
Arthur sent a call out to the Russian freighter. After 5 minutes the Russian ship responded. So
the destroyer did not fire upon her. (15:23)

�Kennedy’s Flight to Europe (17:54)









The ship was then sent to the North Atlantic to put out a homing beacon for when President
Kennedy flew to Europe in June 1963.
Arthur’s ship was placed near Ireland. The ship was part of a string of destroyers placed across
the Atlantic to track President Kennedy’s flight to Europe. (18:40)
During Kennedy’s flight, the waves were said to be 100 ft. (19:13)
It was not uncommon for the splash from the waves to knock sailors off their feet. (20:33)
Pumps on the ship had to be running 24 hours a day on the destroyer so that it would not flood
too quickly. (21:20)
The ship was ordered to go back to Virginia after Air Force One flew over so that it could be
repaired. (22:54)
Due to the speed of Arthur’s destroyer, the ship was the first to arrive in the U.S. (24:26)
Due to the extent of needed repairs on the ship, Arthur was transferred to the USS Murray.
(25:20)

Service on the Murray (25:50)




In February of 1964 he was placed in the Mediterranean. (25:52)
One of the petty officers on the USS Murray began to drink and was an alcoholic. This man one
time played a prank on an officer that involved the man being hit in the rear with a broom.
(26:35)
While at Guantanamo Bay, one of the men thought they saw a body in the water. It was actually
a garbage bag full of water. (31:00)

End of Service (33:00)




Arthur was discharged in June of 1967. He later received a job in a radio shop. (33:10)
He decided to leave the Navy due to the need to make a change in his life. (33:30)
Arthur received a job at the post office in Muskegon where he was born and worked there for
45 years. (34:00)

Map (34:09)
Pictures (34:52)




Arthur with a high frequency receiver. (35:37)
Author transmitting mores code. (36:18)
Picture from Life Magazine. (37:06)

Medals (37:57)


Arthur received medals of the blockade, good conduct, Cuban Missile Crisis.

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>1937-04-6</text>
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          <element elementId="50">
            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="978210">
                <text>Hotel Siano</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="41">
            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="978211">
                <text>Black and white lantern slide of the Hotel Siano in Naples, Italy.</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="978212">
                <text>Lantern slides</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="978213">
                <text>Naples (Italy)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="978215">
                <text>Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="978217">
                <text>In Copyright</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="51">
            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
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                <text>Image</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="42">
            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="978219">
                <text>image/jpg</text>
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            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <text>eng</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="39">
            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                <text>Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955</text>
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          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1037042">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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