383 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c3c70a22ac48b00066661b338026707e.jpg 27b21fc3215ec82b5f1789d3b527fb87 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Cast1_Helen Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." This is a promotional image of the full cast and crew members. The cast is dressed in Greek, roman, and Egyptian costumes. Below text in a stylized font has been added reading "Euripides' HELEN March 24 - April 2, 2017" Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c0c48226b8808cec51f05386a3255c95.jpg 08b9d622fd93907c34e904d22eabbbe2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_035 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." This image is a close up of a man dressed in loose white clothing holding a drawn bow and arrow. The set behind him is draped in white cloth. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f17c299781f513482885e43137046104.jpg 14bb16bcfae800676b23e126d5bd4142 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_049 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image are ten actresses dressed in white, Grecian flowing tunics and dresses and flower crowns. The set is dressed with filmy white cloths hanging from the ceiling and ethereal clouds are projected on a large screen at the back. One woman stands at the center of the stage while the rest arrange the cloths. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/51ea607866c796ca1e2aef1ef1f89fe5.jpg 68207a8dba9b8885253fd4ecc7cc31e2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_099 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image a woman attacks a man with a straw broom, while he holds his arm up defensively. Both are dressed in tan rags and sandals, and the woman's hair has been colored grey. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d0b8a11be644b954ccdb4983b11fb18f.jpg 68207a8dba9b8885253fd4ecc7cc31e2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_099 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image, many women wearing white Grecian tunics and flower crowns sit around a small obelisk. A man wearing tan rags sleeps while resting his head on a woman's shoulder. He is wearing makeup to make him look old, and his hair is colored grey. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/549999c75fb1309fedabd910b6c78a98.jpg 643b01e3963ba17fdb655f745606f404 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_158 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." This image is a close up of a woman dressed as an Egyptian goddess. She holds a staff topped with a golden serpent's head. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/640d7cc237210ea5c64206c61004463c.jpg b76b3e6447dfd3cc884b098b31c59b2f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_178 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image, a woman in the foreground dressed in white kneels and gazes dramatically into the distance. Behind her is a ragged man out of focus, sitting on the obelisk, and lit in pink and blue. Blurred in the background stands a woman in white. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/77b4e3ac5a2e210ceb392aadb16e0169.jpg e924fd3b6dc8dab32666eb820e75c91a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_202 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image three actors stand in front of the obelisk. On the right, a man dressed in gold touches the hair of a woman who appears uncomfortable. She is dressed in black. On the right, a ragged man looks on. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/16bce47782dc534c2008a710a931d909.jpg f37fc6c8fa4a6fe6782d88c2571c0416 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_231 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image nine actors are staged on a dark set. In the center of the stage, a man dressed in bloody rags is lit from below in a golden light. Women dressed in Grecian white, some hidden behind the cloths handing from the ceiling, gaze solemnly at him from the surrounding darkness. On the left a man dressed in gold stands and watches. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb92f14c3f455bc59e25012d05578aab.jpg 272ebe1ea76c24ec63bf753446489e66 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Theatre Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Description An account of the resource Photographs of Grand Valley theater productions from the 1980s to the 2010s. Photos include shots of performances, backstage, casts and crewmembers. Included in the collection are Shakespeare Festival productions and small acts such as Bard to Go and the Greenshow. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright Grand Valley State University Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV058-01 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-2017 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01) Subject The topic of the resource Theater Performances Plays Musicals College Students Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives. Allendale, MI 49401 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1703_Helen_260 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Theatre Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Title A name given to the resource Helen (theater production), 2017 Description An account of the resource Color photograph of Grand Valley's 2017 production of "Helen." In this image two men dressed as Roman gods stand with serious expressions in front of the obelisk, which glows with a blue light. Stars and clusters of stars are projected onto the back wall. Subject The topic of the resource Theater College students Plays Performances Acting Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/754">Theatre Department photographs (GV058-01)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 2017s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f71006b78356ad4d91340477a611b45.jpg 3e82c777dd60e9262afe7e1e1b63fb17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_1931-9_006 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1931-09-06 Title A name given to the resource Helen and Kenneth at 620 Paris Description An account of the resource A young boy and girl stand in front of a playhouse next to a garage. Subject The topic of the resource Grand Rapids (Mich.) Children Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf96a97ce30b1f0a7a989a1cd6941db8.jpg 02b4787b218d5425f207fe2d973f1290 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_ProcessFilm_P_366 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1946-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Helen Burkhead and children back of house Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Helen Burkhead (niece of Robert Merrill) and four children outside behind a house and next to a garage. Subject The topic of the resource Macatawa, Lake (Mich.) Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9d38a8694eadcfdd3a71956170a72db6.pdf 069d503a407a6097aadcd49cce868c95 PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Grand Valley State University Special Collections Interviewee: Helen Grahuis Interviewers: Alissa Cohen, Hannah Frazer, Bryce Byker and Eli Bale Supervising Faculty: Melanie Shell-Weiss Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 3/16/2012 Biography and Description Helen Grahius was born and raised in Haren, Groningen, Netherlands. Later in life, she moved to West Michigan to be with her siblings. She discusses her life in the Netherlands and in the United States. Transcript INTERVIEWER: Okay, so we’re recording it now the first thing I gotta do is read you this oral release form. So it’s “I, Helen Grashuis. hereby agree to participate in aninterview in connection with the oral history project known as “Speaking Out: WesternMichigan’s Civil Rights Histories” at Grand Valley State University. I understand thatthe purpose of this project is to collect audio-recorded oral histories, as well as selectedrelated documentary materials such as photographs and manuscripts, from thoseknowledgeable about civil rights and civil rights activism in Western Michigan with thegoal of preserving these materials and making them available for teaching and research.This may include publication in print, multimedia programs such as radio or television. and the WWW, among others.” So, basically we can use the interview you’re giving us. We can like write a paper about it and we can maybe put some of it on the The internet and ... which we probably won’t because it’s just a small thing, but that would be pretty cool (Everyone laughs) GRAHUIS: Now, do I have to have experience? INTERVIEWER: No. You don’t have to have experience! GRAHUIS: Okay! ‘Cause I don’t! (Everyone laughs) INTERVIEWER: (Laughing) Neither do we! Okay number two: I understand that I may be identified by name, subject to my consent. I may also be identified by name in any transcript (whether verbatim or edited) of such interview, subject to my consent. If I choose to remain anonymous, which you can, I know that audio-recordings of my interview will be closed to use, and my name will not appear in the transcript or reference to any material contained in the interview. I know that in the case of choosing to remain anonymous, my interview will only be identified by an internal ‘Speaking Out” project tracking number. So, you’ll just have a number. Page 1 �GRAHUIS: Oh. INTERVIEWER: And you won’t have a name I understand that the interview will take approximately two hours ... or one hour — GRAHUIS: Yeah! ‘Cause I have to go to bible study! INTERVIEWER: ... yeah, (oral release form continued) and that I can withdraw from the project without prejudice prior to the execution and delivery of this release form. So you can still back out at any time. In the event — GRAHUIS: Oh! Let’s go Monique! (Everyone laughs) INTERVIEWER: In the event that I withdraw from the interview, any recordings make of the interview will be either given to me or destroyed, and no transcript will be made of the interview. I understand that a photograph of me may be taken or borrowed for duplication, and that if I withdraw from the project, the photograph will be given to me and any copies made by the project destroyed. Number four: I understand that, upon completion of the interview, and subject to all the other terms and conditions of this agreement, GVSU shall own the copyright to this work and will be able to use it in any manner it chooses including but not limited to use by researchers and students in presentations and publications, but that I shall be given a perpetual permissive license to use my contribution in any manner or any medium as long as I notify GVSU prior to such use. Wow. Number five, there’s only a few more GRAHUIS: Oh, okay. INTERVIEWER: I understand that any restrictions as to use of portions of the interview indicated by me will be edited out of the final copy of the transcript. So, you can tell us to leave parts out if you want number six: I understand that upon the completion of this interview and signing this release, the recordings, photographs, and one copy of the transcript will be kept in Grand Valley State University Libraries’ Special Collections in Allendale, Michigan. So, all of these interviews, we’re keeping them all in one place. So, all the students in our class and other classes are interviewing people also like professors and other people they know and it will all be kept in one place — all those different interviews. GRAHUIS: Oh! INTERVIEWER: Number seven: If I have questions about the research project or procedures, I know that I can contact Dr. Melanie Shell-Weiss in the Department of Liberal Studies, and it tells all her contact information. Okay, so now — do you guys have a pen? — we need you to sign this... are you okay with us identifying you? Is that okay? GRAHUIS: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Awesome. So ... you just need to sign right here. Page 2 �GRAHUIS: My name? INTERVIEWER: Your name, the address and the date, and your phone number. GRAHUIS: The date today is 16, right? INTERVIEWER: Yup, march 16. GRAHUIS: 3, 16. INTERVIEWER: 12. Monique (Helen’s daughter): Yes, my dad really did wear these. (She pulls out a pair of old wooden shoes) INTERVIEWER: Oh my goodness, that’s so cool. Can I see this? What size are these? (Trying the shoes on) GRAHUIS: I don’t know... BALE: You’ll probably fit into them INTERVIEWER: I don’t know... BALE: Actually, they may be a little to big — small, I mean to big. INTERVIEWER: To big? BALE: Yeah, your feet are way to big. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Ouch. Aw man, I would have to get used to these. I bought a pair when I went there... what size shoe do you wear? 13’s. And those are to big for you? BALE: Do they fit you? INTERVIEWER: No. Not even close. What, they’re way to big? Yeah. BALE: Yeah, they’re to big. INTERVIEWER: I wear 10’s. BALE: Oh wow. GRAHUIS: The interviewee’s me. INTERVIEWER: Do you agree to be identified by name? Oh, and, you don’t wish to remain anonymous. And Helen”... BALE: These are speculaas (pulling out a box of cookies). Have you ever had these? INTERVIEWER: Ooh! GRAHUIS: (signing her name) Grashuis. Page 3 �BALE: They’re like ginger cookies. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: Help yourself. Do you want one, mom? GRAHUIS: No thanks. INTERVIEWER: Alright. I’m just going to write my name for the thing. GRAHUIS: Speculaas. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. BALE: (Pulling out a picture frame) Oh, and this is my dad wearing his wooden shoes. INTERVIEWER: Oh! (Everyone laughs) INTERVIEWER: Wow, that’s awesome. GRAHUIS: Yup. That’s my husband. He died three years ago. INTERVIEWER: Oh really. Okay, so. Did you guys know how we want to start this? Or do we just want to wing it? Well, we have to introduce ourselves. Okay. No that’s not me. (Looking at a picture) I’m not that cute. (Everyone laughs) GRAHUIS: You are! You’ve changed since I’ve last seen you! INTERVIEWER: Look at that... (looking at pictures). GRAHUIS: For the better! INTERVIEWER: Thank you! So we need to introduce ourselves. And say who we’re interviewing. Oh yeah, that’s right! It’s in the sample question packet, I think you’ve got it. That’s right here. This is kind ofjust an outline... BALE: Here I’ll take that. INTERVIEWER: Okay, sweet. I’ve got what we have to say right in here. So, I’m just going to follow what this says may name is Eli Bale. And we have Bryce Byker, Hannah Frazier. Allisa Cohen. We are here on Friday, March the third, at 3:16 — the 16th GRAHUIS: 16 honey. INTERVIEWER: At quarter after 3 pm with Mrs. Helen Grashuis in Kirkhoff on Grand Valley State University’s campus in Allendale, Michigan. We are here about to talk about Mrs. Grashuis’s memories of her childhood and anything else she can remember about her life in western Michigan. Okay. And we also have Monique Bale, who’s here to help us conduct the interview. Page 4 �BALE: Helen’s daughter. GRAHUIS: Oldest daughter. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so, how’d you guys want to start this? Okay, so where were you born exactly? GRAHUIS: I was born in Haren, Groningen. Groningen is the northern part of Netherlands. INTERVIEWER: Oh okay. Very cool. GRAHUIS: And my husband was born in Amsterdam. INTERVIEWER: Oh. How do you spell Groningen? GRAHUIS: Groningen G-r-o-n-i-n-g-e-n. Groningen. INTERVIEWER: Okay, very good. Thank you. Okay, so tell us a little about your family. GRAHUIS: My family — my mom and dad there were nine children in my family. . five boys and four girls. So yeah. Wonderful family. INTERVIEWER: Wait a second for this to go by. GRAHUIS: Okay. INTERVIEWER: And how was that experience growing up with such a large family? GRAHUIS: Real wonderful. INTERVIEWER: You liked it? GRAHUIS: Yeah, we had wonderful parents. INTERVIEWER: Are you close — were you close with your siblings? GRAHUIS: Yes. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Was it typical in that area or time to have that amount of people in a family? GRAHUIS: Yes, yeah. My dad had four brothers and they all had big families. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: We had nine kids. The other ones had, the other one had six girls — INTERVIEWER: Oh my goodness. GRAHUIS: (chucklesj and there were, was another one who had six boys. And so — INTERVIEWER: Jeez. GRAHUIS: Big! Yeah! Those — those times they all had big families. Page 5 �INTERVIEWER: Yeah, wow. It sounds like it. GRAHUIS: Yeah, yeah. We got along real well. INTERVIEWER: What did your parents do for work? What did your dad do for work? GRAHUIS: My dad had his own company, and he, with his brothers, and he selled cement and all that building materials. Yeah, it went real well. INTERVIEWER: What about your mother? Was she just a stay at home mom? GRAHUIS: My mom, ach! Yeah, my mom was a stay at home mom. INTERVIEWER: With that may kids! GRAHUIS: Washing clothes and ... yup. INTERVIEWER: What did a typical day look like for you guys? Like, in like the school year. Like, was it all different grades? Like, in the Netherlands did they have, like, a middle school and a high school where you guys were all separated up into? GRAHUIS: the school I went to the distances were so small. So we walked to school there was one road that go into, from where we were to the, the schools, the Christian school. INTERVIEWER: So it was a pretty small town? GRAHUIS: Yeah. Quite small, and *ahem*, excuse me. a lot of Dutch people. In that, time, there were a lot of people that came from different countries. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And do you remember anything about your school. GRAHUIS: Well, we had to work hard! (Laughter) INTERVIEWER: Yuuuup, I can relate to that. You said there were people from a lot of different countries so, would you say that everyone was excepting of all the different types of people that were there? GRAHUIS: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? GRAHUIS: Yeah, uh-huh. And I think mostly they came from the Netherlands. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? GRAHUIS: Yeah. So,— BALE: But mom, you said too, that your community was really tight-nit. You knew all the families. GRAHUIS: Yes. Page 6 �BALE: You had a milkman who came down the street with his horse-cart. those families. The Bucker the Baker’s man. GRAHUIS: He would go through the street with his little red INTERVIEWER: - like cart? GRAHUIS: Cart! Yup, that he pushed. Yeah, it was wonderful time we had, a wonderful time. BALE: And because your family was so big, you didn’t have a whole lot of money. GRAHUIS: Nope. BALE: And it was a home — you slept with your sisters right? GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: Two sisters. GRAHUIS: Yup. BALE: And it was very, and in the winter time it was very cold. I remember you telling stories of when you would wake up in the morning and ice would be on your sheets. That’s how cold it was. GRAHUIS: Yup. INTERVIEWER: Wow! BALE: And you slept together to keep warm. GRAHUIS: To keep warm. BALE: And you didn’t have very many clothes. GRAHUIS: That’s right. BALE: And, I was just asking her on the way over here. Did you wear wooden shoes when you were growing up? And she did. She wore wooden shoes all through elementary school. She said, I said, so how do your feet keep warm. She said they had leather slippers that they would put inside their wooden shoes and they would walk. GRAHUIS: Socks of course. BALE: And they would walk through the snow and snow would accumulate on their wooden shoes. INTERVIEWER: Oh my gosh, wow. Kind of like ice skating. Exactly. BALE: And she said when she got to be about, what? Maybe ten. You got your first pair of leather shoes. That was a big deal. Page 7 �GRAHUIS: Oh yeah! We were so proud! We could go to church with our leather shoes we would just walk in the neighborhood and just look at it. Just look at it! INTERVIEWER: Ah, that’s great. Yeah, what about — GRAHUIS: I have such wonderful memories of my youth. INTERVIEWER: Tell us some of those memories. GRAHUIS: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Tell us some of your favorite memories. If you have any. GRAHUIS: (chuckles) Favorite — favorite memories! There was a lot of— there was a lot of land there. So, grass and ditches and we would have a long pole and jump across those ditches and guess what? We would fall in! So beautiful. BALE: So when the canals froze over — INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I was gonna ask about that. Skating! BALE: Yeah, skating for miles and miles. GRAHUIS: Oh yes, we skated for miles — INTERVIEWER: So fun GRAHUIS: That’s, oh that was wonderful. Wonderful. And we had, we had lanterns and we lived, my family lived on, the haven ... haven ... how do you say haven? BALE: Like a little lake. Like a little pond or a little lake. GRAHUIS: Where the boats would come in. INTERVIEWER: Okay, did you live — BALE: Like a harbor! GRAHUIS: Harbor. INTERVIEWER: Did you live — BALE: Like a harbor. INTERVIEWER: - near the ocean? GRAHUIS: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Did you live near the ocean? GRAHUIS: No, no. Page 8 �INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Opa did. Opa is grandpa. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: And I’m oma. INTERVIEWER: (chuckles) Yup, my oma. I’ve heard you call her that a couple times. Yeah, they were confused when I said that the first time! They were like, What does that mean?” (Laughter) GRAHUIS: (laughing) Yeah! BALE: Yeah, so you lived on the harbor. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: Yeah. GRAHUIS: And then my dad, my dad would, put us on his back, and we would tie our skates on then we could go on his back and he would drop us off on the harbor. There was ice — well, of course there was ice, otherwise he wouldn’t throw us in! And then at night they would put the lights on these... we call it. INTERVIEWER: Like the lamps? GRAHUIS: Yeah! Yes, yes. Otherwise we would break our neck. But then we would skate from the harbor to the canal. We would have to go under bridges. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever have races? GRAHUIS: What? INTERVIEWER: Did you ever have races on the canals? Like skating races? GRAHUIS: Not that much on the canals. But there were also lakes and that is where they mostly had the races INTERVIEWER: Now I know Opa was quite a big sailor. Did you sail at all when you were growing up? Like, did you go out on the water in boats? GRAHUIS: My husband? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I know Opa was a big sailor but did you do any sailing or fishing out on the water? GRAHUIS: Fishing! Oh we did a lot of fishing. INTERVIEWER: When did you meet your husband? GRAHUIS: I met my husband in the sixties? No fifties Page 9 �INTERVIEWER: Ok so quite a bit after your childhood. And did you meet him there or when you came to the United States? GRAHUIS: No I met him here. INTERVIEWER: Oh wow! GRAHUIS: Yeah, I met him in church. He saw me sitting in church. Because I had and aunt and uncle that were in Kalamazoo, they immigrated to Kalamazoo, and they had ten kids. So I would go to church with them. And then Hank, my husbands name is Hank, his, let me see, where am I? Oh Yes, they were members of the same church. It was a Christian reformed church in Kalamazoo. I was living in the YWCA. So he found that out and then that sunday night after church, I was in my room and somebody said,” Somebody is here for you”. So I said “Okay”. I had no idea that it was him. So there was Hank INTERVIEWER: Wow, was it love at first sight? GRAHUIS: Yeah, so that is how we met. BALE: But to put a big picture on it, my dad had a family often right? GRAHUIS: Eight. BALE: Yeah, eight kids. But ten all together. They immigrated when he was sixteen. He was sixteen. GRAHUIS: Yes. BALE: So they came over on a big boat, when he was sixteen. And then my mom immigrated when she was twenty five and she came with her brother here to America. GRAHUIS: Yes, my brother was a year younger than I am. BALE: Right. So dad was here already in kalamazoo. GRAHUIS: Yes but I also had uncle John, my brother John, was living here already. And my sister Evelin. They were living here. So we came here from the Netherlands, visiting them. We could stay with them in their home. It was quite something. I was a little homesick at first but thats it. INTERVIEWER: What made up your mind about moving here? What was your motivation for moving here? GRAHUIS: I wanted to see what the United States was like. INTERVIEWER: How old were you when you moved? GRAHUIS: Twenty two. INTERVIEWER: Twenty two? GRAHUIS: I was twenty two years old when I came here. Page 10 �INTERVIEWER: What did you imagine it would be like? GRAHUIS: . INTERVIEWER: Better than It actually was? GRAHUIS: Yeah, I love this country. I am so glad I came here. Of coarse I met my husband here. INTERVIEWER: Did you come over on a boat? GRAHUIS: I flew. INTERVIEWER: Okay cool. GRAHUIS: And my dad paid for the ticket. INTERVIEWER: Oh so You didn’t go with your family? GRAHUIS: Yes my brother. I was twenty two. BALE: Was that Clause? GRAHUIS: Yes. BALE: And John was here already. GRAHUIS: Yes, John was here. John was married. And Eveline was here. BALE: Okay, so two siblings were here and you came over with another brother. GRAHUIS: Yep. BALE: So thats four of the nine kids came over to the states. GRAHUIS: And my mom was very sad that so many came to the united states. BALE: Are the other five still there? GRAHUIS: Yeah they have been here but they would rather stay in the Netherlands. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so what else do you remember from the time you were ten years old to the time you were twenty two? Like when exactly was the nazi occupation? GRAHUIS: Oh I was afraid you were going to say something about that. It was in the forties. INTERVIEWER: How old were you when that happened? GRAHUIS: I was In my thirties. I was thirty eight when it was over. BALE: No, how old where you when the war was going on? You were young. GRAHUIS: Well I was born in 1937. Page 11 �BALE: Ok so you were young. You were six. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember anything about that? Do you remember your lifestyle changing? GRAHUIS: Yes, yes. Because we were living in a home and right next to us was a garage where all the germans were in. And so when all the Americans or the English came over, they would shoot at that garage. But also, we were also bombarded because our home was so close to that garage. So if my brother had stayed that night, we were eating supper, my dad was in church work and so he was not home, my mom was only there with all the kids, and if he would have stayed in that chair he would have been killed. Because the bullet went right through the seat. BALE: So did you here the sirens or did you hear the plans come in? GRAHUIS: We heard the plans come in. BALE: So what they did is they went down into the cellar. Everybody left the table and went into the cellar. GRAHUIS: Yes, I fell into the potato salad. Thats why I have such a potato head. INTERVIEWER: So it seems that you were living in fear for a while then, right? GRAHUIS: Yes, we were. INTERVIEWER: And how long did that go on? GRAHUIS: I think it started in forty two and in forty five it was over. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember your diet changing or your lifestyle changing because you didn’t have enough money? GRAHUIS: Well food was hard to get. INTERVIEWER: I remember you saying something about rations. Did you guys have to do that at all? GRAHUIS: Oh yes, definitely. And we had a big family so would have a lot of sugar and there were some families that could not get it. So we would exchange sugar for what they had. Potatoes or whatever. So that was quite a life. INTERVIEWER: But it sounds like money wasn’t, I mean its a struggle without money, but it sounds like it wasn’t really an issue. Like you say you still loved your memories of growing up and everything. GRAHUIS: Yes, I did. INTERVIEWER: So you still had fun even though the Nazis were around. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and I heard how with the bikes they would take the tires. Did that happen to you guys? Page 12 �GRAHUIS: Oh yeah. INTERVIEWER: Why did they do that? GRAHUIS: because they could use the rubber. They were rubber tires and they could use it. INTERVIEWER: So they took it right off your bikes to use it? GRAHUIS: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Wow. So you had to clatter around on metal wheels for a while? GRAHUIS: Yeah exactly. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember, I mean obviously there was a war going on, but were there any tragedies that hit close to home or to you with friends or anything? GRAHUIS: Yes. Friends, their fathers were transported someplace else. I had a friend and her father was a doctor and he was killed. And of coarse the jews, we had jews in our town. They were picked up. INTERVIEWER: Did you know anyone that was helping them at all? GRAHUIS: Yes, Hanks father was a police man so he hid a lot ofjewish people. INTERVIEWER: That’s really cool. Did he ever get caught? GRAHUIS: No, he did not get caught. And Hank would, on his bike, go to the farmers and pick up milk for the family. INTERVIEWER: What were the nazi soldiers like? Where they mean or did they trouble you guys at all? GRAHUIS: I can not remember much of that. INTERVIEWER: Okay, what did you do for fun around that time? In your free time with your friends and stuff? I know you had a tight knit community and stuff, what did you guys do for fun? GRAHUIS: A lot of things. A lot of little things. INTERVIEWER: Did you guys have any sports you liked to play? I know Opa enjoyed playing soccer. GRAHUIS: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Did you guys have anything like that or did you guys just do little hangouts and stuff? GRAHUIS: Bicycling, and of coarse in the winter skating. INTERVIEWER: And did you guys, I don not know if this is like an American thing but did you guys have like snowball fights and build snowmen? GRAHUIS: Oh yeah. Page 13 �INTERVIEWER: Okay, I guess a worldwide thing. GRAHUIS: Yep when you have snow you make a snowman. INTERVIEWER: What about Christmas time? Did you have any traditions you used to do? Like, I know you used to put shoes by the door or something like that? GRAHUIS: Yeah I put something in it. Yep we sure did. INTERVIEWER: Now around Christmas time did you have your relatives come over or was it just your family? BALE: What was Christmas like? Christmas day. GRAHUIS: Oh we would decorate the whole room and it was nice. BALE: Did you exchange presents? GRAHUIS: Yes we did. Little gifts. very little gifts because we did not have much money as kids because we did not work. INTERVIEWER: No ipods? GRAHUIS: Nope. INTERVIEWER: Where there any traditions you brought from to the United States from back in the Netherlands? GRAHUIS: Our Dutch cooking. Stumput. INTERVIEWER: What is that? I have never heard of it. GRAHUIS: You put potatoes, you cook potatoes and carrots and you mash them all up. The kids love it. BALE: Potatoes, carrots, onions. GRAHUIS: And onions. INTERVIEWER: Where did that meal come from? Do you remember how it originated into the Netherlands? GRAHUIS: No, i think its more a dutch meal. Interviewer. Okay, because I remember someone, i do not remember who it was, told me that, when they did not have a lot of ingredients and stuff during the war and they had just potatoes, onions and carrots, they were like lets just throw it all into a pot, mash it up and see what come out. And that was stumpot. And Tm glad they did. Its really good. BALE: So your diet was mainly potatoes. very little meat because meat was expensive. GRAHUIS: Oh yeah, we did not eat much meat at all. It as very expensive. BALE: And then the fish. Page 14 �GRAHUIS: fish yeah. BALE: Yes, and dutch cheese. INTERVIEWER: Now did you ever go on to college? Helen: No I did not go to college. I went to high school. INTERVIEWER: Okay, do you have any specific memories from your hight school? GRAHUIS: Yeah we had some things that we did together as a class. We did everything on bicycles. We would go swimming and it was quite a ways away. And we did a lot of biking. So one those days you did not see very many people. INTERVIEWER: And what about jobs? Did you get ajob when you graduated high school? GRAHUIS: No. I did not work. BALE: But you did say you had ajob in Haden that you had to bike to. And that was after hight school. You were in your twenties. Didm’t you have a secretarial job? GRAHUIS: Oh yeah. When I was older. BALE: Before you immigrated over. What was that job? GRAHUIS: Ill have to think, what did I do? I worked at an office. INTERVIEWER: Okay BALE: You worked there everyday. Haden was how far from Cronighan? INTERVIEWER: What is that? GRAHUIS: Stumput. INTERVIEWER: I’ve never heard of that. INTERVIEWER: Me Either. GRAHUIS: You have potatoes. You cook potatoes, and carrots, and-uh then you mash them all up. INTERVIEWER: Ooo INTERVIEWER: That sounds good. GRAHUIS: And- the kids love it. BALE: And onions. Potatoes, carrots and onions. GRAHUIS: And onions. Page 15 �INTERVIEWER: And where did that meal come from, like, where did that meal come from? Do you remember, like, how it originated in the Netherlands? (Pause) INTERVIEWER: Okay GRAHUIS: I think its more Dutch. The DutchINTERVIEWER: Okay because I remember someone, I don’t remember who it was, told me that they didn’t, when they didn’t have, like a lot of ingredients and stuff during the war, like and they had just potatoes, onions, and carrots, they were like lets throw it all into a pot, mash it up, and see what comes out. (Laughs) GRAHUIS: Uh-huh INTERVIEWER: So they had stumput, GRAHUIS: Uh-huh BALE: Yeah INTERVIEWER: And I’m glad they did. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: It’s really good! GRAHUIS: Uh-huh BALE: So your diet was mainly potatoes, very little meat because meat was expensive. GRAHUIS: Oh yeah. We didn’t eat much meat at all. (Pause) It was very expensive. INTERVIEWER: Um-hm BALE: And the fish. GRAHUIS: Fish. Yeah. BALE: And cheese. GRAHUIS: And cheese. That’s cheese. INTERVIEWER: Um-hm. (Pause) Now did you go to college? GRAHUIS: No. I did not go to college. I went to high school. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Uh-.huh. INTERVIEWER: Do you have any specific memories from your high school? GRAHUIS: Yeah. We had some things that we did together as a class. Page 16 �INTERVIEWER: Mmm GRAHUIS: we would We did everything on bicycles. INTERVIEWER: Mmmmmm GRAHUIS: . We would go to go swimming, andINTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: . It was quite a ways away, and, yeah. We did a lot of a lot of biking, biking. INTERVIEWER: Mm GRAHUIS: Yeah. So in those days you didn’t see very many big people. BALE: (Laugh) INTERVIEWER: Yeah! (Laugh) And what about jobs? Did you get a job when you graduated high school? GRAHUIS: No. I did not work. BALE: But you did say you had a job. In, GRAHUIS: Holland. BALE: that you had to bike to. When, that was after high school though. When you were in your twenties. (Pause) Didn’t you have a secretarial job or ajob that you, I remember you saying that you GRAHUIS: Oh yeah. When I was older. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: Yeah. Before you immigrated over. INTERVIEWER: Before you immigrated. Yeah. That’s, yeah. GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: What was that job? GRAHUIS: let me think what did I do? (Pause) I worked at an office. INTERVIEWER: Okay BALE: Yup. You’d bike there everyday. GRAHUIS: Um-hm BALE: Howden was how far from Kronian (32:14)? GRAHUIS: five kilometers. Page 17 �BALE: Okay. INTERVIEWER: Hm, Okay. GRAHUIS: And I would go there in the morning, and then for lunch I would come home, and then at one o’clock I would go back. INTERVIEWER: Oh, wow. GRAHUIS: So, it’s a lot of biking. INTERVIEWER: That is a lot. Yeah. A couple miles in everyday. BALE: And you lived at home? GRAHUIS: I lived at home. Yeah. BALE: Okay. INTERVIEWER: And your family got along pretty well together, all of you kids? GRAHUIS: Eh, yeah. Hey, when you’re kids you have to fight once and a while. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I know what that’s like. BALE: I remember GRAHUIS: We’re not perfect. BALE: Yeah. I remember you recently telling me this too that your grandfather lived with you. Your grandfather lived with you. INTERVIEWER: Oh. GRAHUIS: My Mom’s father. BALE: Right, and he didn’t have his own room cuz there were no rooms left over. He would sleep in the, on the couch. GRAHUIS: Yeah on the couch. BALE: On the couch in the dinning room, living room. GRAHUIS: Yes. BALE: Okay, and that just, he was part of the family. GRAHUIS: Yeah. That’s where he died. BALE: And that’s where he died. GRAHUIS: Yup. Page 18 �BALE: Okay. GRAHUIS: Yup. Um-hm. That’s right. (Pause) Yup. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember anything about the churches in the Netherlands, like the church you went to? GRAHUIS: Well they’re not like here. Um, in those days we didn’t have our groups INTERVIEWER: Like bible study and? GRAHUIS: Yes. Exactly. Um-hm. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: So it was more for the older people. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Do they have an organ in the church? GRAHUIS: Oh yeah. Beautiful organ. BALE: Beautiful organ. GRAHUIS: Um-hm. BALE: Yup. INTERVIEWER: That’s cool. Now about your immigration, do you guys have any other questions about Holland? INTERVIEWER: No. I think we’ve heard a lot. INTERVIEWER: Okay was it uncommon for people to rnove to the United States in the Netherlands, or was it pretty common for people to just head over here? GRAHUIS: It was, yeah. There was a certain time period where a lot of people came to the United States. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Or Canada. INTERVIEWER: Or Canada. INTERVIEWER: And was it just because they wanted to, or was there a reason they were leaving the Netherlands? Page 19 �GRAHUIS: it was, (Pause) it was well, we have big families. You know? Like my aunt and uncle. They immigrated because it wasn’t (Pause) they could feed them here. INTERVIEWER: So a better life? GRAHUIS: Yeah. A better life. INTERVIEWER: Opportunities. GRAHUIS: A much better life especially also going to school. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. GRAHUIS: . They would go to college here or- . So, (Pause) yup. A lot of big families immigrated. Yup. This is a great country. INTERVIEWER: Now, when you came to the U.S. so you boarded a plane from the Netherlands, and where did you... GRAHUIS: Amsterdam. Yup. INTERVIEWER: From Amsterdam. Where did you arrive? Where was your destination in the U.S.? Did you land in like New York or (Pause) where did you land on the flight? GRAHUIS: I think we landed where did we go to? BALE: Probably Chicago. GRAHUIS: Oh! Oh no. Detroit yeah, Detroit. INTERVIEWER: Was your intention always to come to Michigan? GRAHUIS: Yeah because I had a sister and a brother here. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. GRAHUIS: Um-hm. INTERVIEWER: So where did you go? Where did you start living When you got to the U.S.? GRAHUIS: Michigan. INTERVIEWER: Michigan. Like where INTERVIEWER: What city? INTERVIEWER: Like Kalamazoo or? GRAHUIS: Kalamazoo. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and that was, you lived with your brother then? Page 20 �GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: John and Ida. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What was that like? GRAHUIS: John was my oldest brother. INTERVIEWER: Like did you find ajob right away or did you just? GRAHUIS: I also worked here in an office. INTERVIEWER: Oh okay. GRAHUIS: Uh-huh, and when did I start driving school bus? BALE: That was way later. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Yeah that was way later. BALE: Didn’t you work at a department store? GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: In like, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: Didn’t you even model some cloths? Did you model some cloths or? GRAHUIS: Yeah I did. I did. BALE: We should have brought a picture of it. INTERVIEWER: Yeah! I would have loved to see those! BALE: You were very nice looking. (Laughs) GRAHUIS: Yeah BALE: Oh well. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: We don’t need to talk about that. (Laugh) Stop. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: So then, was it quite recent after you moved to the U.S. that you met Opa? Page 21 �GRAHUIS: Yes. Uh-huh. Yup. INTERVIEWER: Okay. So was that like a few years after afterwards or? GRAHUIS: He was, oh gosh, he was in, he was in the military? (Pause) Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: I was, let’s see now. Opa was twenty-five when I, when we married, and I was twenty-four. No. He was twenty-four; I was twenty-five. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: So INTERVIEWER: Oh. So you met each other and you got married quite soon after that then. GRAHUIS: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: So love at first sight kind of thing? GRAHUIS: Yup. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: Right when you walked up to the door? (Laughs) GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: so after you got married what did you guys do after that, like did you move somewhere, or did you get a house. GRAHUIS: Yeah. We got a house, and we had a house full of kids. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: Okay. Tell us about that. INTERVIEWER: How many kids do you have? GRAHUIS: Three daughters. INTERVIEWER: Three daughters? GRAHUIS: -him. Monique is the oldest, and then we have Michelle, a year later, and then we have Melissa. BALE: A year later. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: Wow! GRAHUIS: So Melissa lives in Australia. Page 22 �INTERVIEWER: Wow. GRAHUIS: And she’s coming here with her husband and their two children in a couple weeks. Right? INTERVIEWER: Mrnm. Yup. I’m looking forward to that. GRAHUIS: Yup. INTERVIEWER: To visit or to move? GRAHUIS: To visit. INTERVIEWER: Okay. INTERVIEWER: And what about that family experience? How did that differ from your family experience in the Netherlands? GRAHUIS: I don’t know. What do you mean with that? INTERVIEWER: Well, I mean just, what was your family experience like here I guess? Did you INTERVIEWER: With your husband and your children. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: How did it differ from how you grew up in the Netherlands? INTERVIEWER: Did you have a better lifestyle here would you say or? BALE: Did you have a better lifestyle here? GRAHUIS: Yeah. Definitely. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? GRAHUIS: Oh definitely. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? GRAHUIS:huh. Yeah. Yup. INTERVIEWER: And was it ever, I mean, hard with money and anything or? GRAHUIS: No. My husband had a very good job. He went to the Kalamazoo college there. INTERVIEWER: Oh. Yeah. BALE: It’s Western Michigan. INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. Page 23 �GRAHUIS: Yeah, and then he got his masters degree in Illinois, Northern Illinois University, and yeah. He had a good job. We had a good life. Yeah, and then Melissa went to Calvin right? INTERVIEWER: Calvin. Oh Yeah. BALE: Um-hrn. GRAHUIS: And you went to Calvin. BALE: Um-hm. GRAHUIS: And Michelle went to Farry, Farris. Farris! BALE: Um-hm. GRAHUIS: Yup. INTERVIEWER: So, did you, so you got married, and you lived in Kalamazoo GRAHUIS: Yes. INTERVIEWER: For a few years. Did you live there, now how long did you live in Kalamazoo? GRAHUIS: How long did we live in Kalamazoo INTERVIEWER: Like was it a long time, like did you have all three of your daughters in Kalamazoo? GRAHUIS: No. They were born in Chicago. INTERVIEWER: Okay. INTERVIEWER: Oh really? GRAHUIS: Yeah. Oh we moved all over the place. INTERVIEWER: Oh wow. INTERVIEWER: Tell us a little bit about that, like where did you guys, what were the different places you guys lived? GRAHUIS: Okay. That’s up to her. (Laughs) GRAHUIS: She knows better. BALE: So you lived in Michigan for a little bit after you were married. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: And then you moved down to Chicago, where Dad got his masters, and then you started having us. We lived in Chicago for, I remember, about five years ‘cuz when I was kindergarten age we moved back up to Grand Haven, Michigan. Page 24 �INTERVIEWER: Oh. Okay. BALE: And that’s where we settled for, probably until I was in junior high, high school. GRAHUIS: -him BALE: So that’s where we started school, all three of us, and lived in Grand Haven. Yeah, and then we we lived in Grand Haven, and-uh we lived not too far from your sister, Evelyn, and another brother, Klaus, and another brother, John. So all three of the families, all four of the families were in Grand Haven. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: And we were very close with the families. We all grew up together. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: Lots of cousins. GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: And that was good. GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: That was a very good, good growing up. INTERVIEWER: A good few years? BALE: Yup, and when we got together we... everybody would be speaking Dutch. It was all, everything was in Dutch, and our INTERVIEWER: You too Mom? INTERVIEWER: So yeah. You know Dutch as well? BALE: Well I can understand it. INTERVIEWER: Oh okay. I didn’t know that. BALE: Yeah we can understand it. GRAHUIS: Melissa’s good at it. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: We didn’t necessarily converse or speak, but it was all Dutch, and Dutch food. during the holidays, our Christrnas especially, we would always look forward to... they make like a specialty. Yeah a Dutch specialty is oliebollen. So it’s INTERVIEWER: Oliebollen, mmrnmm. Page 25 �BALE: Kind of a daylong process of making the dough and rising the the yeast rising it GRAHUIS: Yup. BALE: And it was all made out in the garage. It was GRAHUIS: So you don’t get all that smell in your home. BALE: Yup, and this is very traditional. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. BALE: So we would have oliebollen. INTERVIEWER: That’s awesome. So you guys took home some traditions from back there? BALE: Oh yeah! GRAHUIS: You Dutch. You know that. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I know a lot about the food and stuff, but, and I love the food, but I haven’t heard of that before. I’ve never heard of that before, so. BALE: Oh oliebollen? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I’ve never heard of that. BALE: Oh very traditional. INTERVIEWER: It’s good. It’s good too. GRAHUIS: Yeah. You fry them in oil. You have a pan full of oil, and you dump the stuff INTERVIEWER: The dough. GRAHUIS: Yeah, the dough. INTERVIEWER: Oh okay. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Now did you, is that when you had your school bus job? GRAHUIS: When did I start INTERVIEWER: In Grand Haven. BALE: You started driving school oh boy. That wasn’t in Georgia. I would say GRAHUIS: No that was in Kalama, in- that was in Grand Haven. BALE: In Grand Haven. Page 26 �GRAHUIS: Yes. BALE: Okay. GRAHUIS:huh. INTERVIEWER: When was GRAHUIS: And I was the best bus driver. (Laughs) GRAHUIS: In Grand Haven. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: Yeah. The kids loved you. INTERVIEWER: I’m sure. GRAHUIS: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: That’s awesome. GRAHUIS: Although, I could also be INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I heard you had to like, I remember you telling us storied about some of the kids on your bus, like some of them were very unruly, and GRAHUIS: Oh yah. They can be. INTERVIEWER: Oh yeah. So GRAHUIS: Children are children. INTERVIEWER: What age group did you, was it elementary, middle school? GRAHUIS: All age. INTERVIEWER: Oh all? GRAHUIS: Yup. Kindergarteners I had a kindergarten run in the afternoon, at noon, so I liked it, and now I get a little pension. (Laughs) INTERVIEWER: So where did you, you said you moved to Georgia? INTERVIEWER: Yeah where does Georgia fall into this? BALE: -hrn. INTERVIEWER: What other places did you move? BALE: We were very sad about that. INTERVIEWER: After Grand Haven? Okay. Page 27 �BALE: We lived in Grand Haven for, after Chicago, five years, we lived in Grand Haven for up until I was about, I would say, tenth grade, and Michelle ninth, and Melissa eighth, and then we, so it was very hard to leave a tight nit family group. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. BALE: . INTERVIEWER: That’s a tough time to leave. BALE: Um-hm. I was pretty devastated. So Dad got ajob down in near Atlanta, which is Roswell, Georgia. INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. BALE: And so we left the family up in Grand Haven. We moved down to Georgia where Dad worked for a company. We were there for two years living in the south. INTERVIEWER: Oh gees. BALE: Yeah, and then INTERVIEWER: So you graduated there. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. BALE: No. I didn’t. INTERVIEWER: Oh no? BALE: Two years later, actually a year... two years later. We lived down there for two years I think. INTERVIEWER: -hm. BALE: And then we moved up to New York. INTERVIEWER: Oh wow. You guys have been all over. BALE: And we moved up to New York, and we lived there on Long Island for a year. GRAHUIS: Yup. Long Island. That’s right. INTERVIEWER: Wow. INTERVIEWER: Was this all for his work? BALE: So back up. I think GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: Georgia was my ninth grade. I moved in ninth grade to Georgia. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Page 28 �BALE: Ninth and tenth. GRAHUIS: Okay. BALE: Moved up to Long Island for a year, and that was very different ‘cuz we were blonde Dutch people. INTERVIEWER: Yeah! BALE: Living in GRAHUIS: She had boyfriends all over. (Laughs) BALE: We lived in an Italian; I mean it was all Italian. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. BALE: And, so those were our friends. INTERVIEWER: Just for the interviews sake, did you guys appreciate all the diversity that was around you or did you ever feel, or was there any sense of segregation ever? Like that’s just one of the questions we were just wondering about with the interviews we’re doing. GRAHUIS: No, no. INTERVIEWER: No sense of segregation? Okay. BALE: I don’t think so. GRAHUIS: No, not at all. INTERVIEWER: Because the U.S. was a very diverse time, very diverse time back then. GRAHUIS: No, I never felt that. INTERVIEWER: And your family, you’ve always been accepting of other races and stuff? GRAHUIS: Yeah. BALE: Yeah, I mean we grew up in a very, I mean it was a very Dutch, Western Michigan, so I don’t think. INTERVIEWER: Still is. BALE: We were among our own people. There was not much in Western Michigan diverse wise. In Grand Haven, Kalamazoo, it was mainly Dutch. INTERVIEWER: What about Chicago? BALE: Chicago was a little different. I don’t, I was young so I don’t really remember. in the apartment complex, I don’t remember a whole lot of diversity there. No. Page 29 �INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: But now like Monique, for instance, adopted an American, BALE: African American. GRAHUIS: African American boy. INTERVIEWER: Sean. GRAHUIS: Sean. Sean is our, Eli’s brother. INTERVIEWER: He’s my bro. GRAHUIS: And now she’s adopting two children of Congo. And she’s getting those two children, they are sisters. And she’s getting them in May. INTERVIEWER: That’s great, that’s awesome. That’s really cool. That’s’ really exciting. BALE: So here’s 100% Dutch, 100% Dutch. GRAHUIS: The blondies and the blackies. BALE: Lots of color, lots of color in our family. So yeah, we’ve never felt segregated. INTERVIEWER: So is there any specific memories that either of you have in those three, those five places that you lived? Like because you just told us about the history, Chicago, Georgia, New York, Netherlands, and Grand Haven. Do you have any specific memories of just like, a story or anything? Can you wrap your brain around? GRAHUIS: You probably do being in school. BALE: Specific stories? GRAHUIS: Didn’t you have a little problem in the Netherlands in school? BALE: yeah, I think some of my best memories were in the Netherlands. INTERVIEWER: Okay. BALE: Some of my best memories were there because we were in a completely different culture. I mean the Netherlands, but we were actually living in Holland. And we were old enough to travel around, so, because I was eighteen we traveled, when you’re in the Netherlands and there’s countries all around you, it’s like traveling to the next state or the next town, because I mean Belgium was, Germany was a few hours, right across the way. We would vacation, we vacationed in Italy and we went to Germany with our youth group. And for a class trip we went to London. And then GRAHUIS: So you would, oh excuse me. Then you would live with other families, didn’t you? BALE: No, not in the Netherlands, not in my high school years. Page 30 �GRAHUIS: Oh okay, oh. BALE: Yeah, so we had the freedom of travelling so it was wonderful, it was wonderful experiencing different culture in my high school years. But yeah, I think those are some of the best memories. And for a specific story, I don’t remember Eli, I’m sorry. INTERVIEWER: Maybe later you can tell me. BALE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Okay so, you said you moved back to Grand Haven? BALE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: and then you went off to college and then I’m assuming Aunt Mitchie and Aunt Lizzie went off to college several years after that. So then when then they all left, it was just you and Opa? Now, is that about the time you got a bus driving job? Like I remember BALE: I think during our college years you were bus driving. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: Mhm. BALE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And you must have drove buses for a while then because I can still remember when you GRAHUIS: I did, I did. I drove bus for twenty years. INTERVIEWER: Oh my gosh. Wow, that’s a long time. GRAHUIS: Get up at five o’clock in the morning and I pick all those kids up at home. INTERVIEWER: Oh wow. GRAHUIS: Oh, especially in the winter time. INTERVIEWER: Was it a fun job though? GRAHUIS: Oh, huh? INTERVIEWER: Was it fun? GRAHUIS: Yeah, I liked it, I enjoyed it. BALE: I think that an important thing for this interview is I a very big thing about being Dutch, and a very big thing that has, from the Dutch culture, I think ingrained in each one of the kids is being hard working and being thrifty. I think both you and dad were very hard working and you instilled that in us. And also spending wisely, being thrifty. This is all from the Dutch culture, because there was not much when you were growing up, there was not much to go around. You just made do with what you had. And you also, Page 31 �you all pulled together, you all had your chores. I remember you each having your chores. Because you had to rely on each other to do the work that had to be done. So that kind of passes on to the generations. Passing on down now to Eli. Your very hard working, aren’t you Eli? INTERVIEWER: Of course I am. So now you live in Grand Haven? GRAHUIS: I live in Grand Haven, yeah. INTERVIEWER: So what do you do now in Grand Haven, how do you spend your days? GRAHUIS: I lay on the couch. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Do you live by yourself? GRAHUIS: I live by myself, yeah. Yeah, my husband died in November ‘08. So yeah. I have, of course, I have three daughters and they moved away she lives in the U.P., Michelle lives in Saginaw, and Melissa lives in Australia. And so I don’t have very much, I have a brother John that was the first one to come here, and he lives in Kalamazoo. Then I have a brother Peter who lives in South Bend. And I have some brothers, two sisters. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And down in Kalamazoo there’s a little community of, that’s branched out from there, right? GRAHUIS: Lot’s of Dutch. INTERVIEWER: Lot’s of our family live down there still? GRAHUIS: Yes. BALE: And also, when we were growing up, we took two trips; we took two family trips to the Netherlands. So we were, I think my first trip over to the Netherlands to visit Opa and Oma. which is her folks, was when I was seven, eight? So we would, we would spend, I don’t know how many weeks we were there, three weeks maybe, we would live in, we would vacation over in _____? and we would bike around in Holland and we would get to know the Dutch cousins and get to know the Dutch aunts and uncles. And it was only during those trips that we got to know our Dutch side. because otherwise we didn’t grow know them at all. INTERVIEWER: Except for the few Dutch family you had in Grand Haven? BALE: Over here, right. But our other part of the family was over in the Netherlands. INTERVIEWER: That was a major part of your family. You really got to experience a major part of your roots. BALE: Right, right. INTERVIEWER: That’s awesome. Page 32 �BALE: And our second trip, we took another trip, we took two trips, anyways those were wonderful, precious memories. INTERVIEWER: That’s really cool that you got to do that. GRAHUIS: And I took her and my middle daughter, I took them to Australia. INTERVIEWER: Oh yeah, that was recent. GRAHUIS: Last year, January, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Yeah I can remember, just more recent years just all the times we would come to your house, like especially when the Yates were living in Cincinnati. I remember going to your house for Christmas and stuff and the whole family would be there. Go out to Penn Hill, camp in Big Rapids. Go there and yeah, I just remember going to Thanksgiving at your house and just coming down and visiting, going to church with you guys. GRAHUIS: See, those are all wonderful memories, yeah. INTERVIEWER: I remember mom, well I don’t remember you, I remember the video of you guys getting married in the backyard. That’s really fun. BALE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What about big events like, in the news and stuff when you were in, after you moved to the U.S.. Do you remember, like, the Martin Luther King Jr. “I had a Dream” or do you remember all that stuff? GRAHUIS: No. BALE: Do you remember Kennedy being shot? GRAHUIS: Oh yes. Yes. I remember that one, because you were a baby, I was feeding you. And the radio, it said that the president had been killed. BALE: Any other big events? INTERVIEWER: Vietnam War, or? GRAHUIS: No I don’t remember much about that. BALE: Do you remember much about civil rights, mom? GRAHUIS: No. BALE: What was going on in Detroit? GRAHUIS: No. BALE: African Americans? Page 33 �GRAHUIS: I don’t, I’d have to think about it first. BALE: What music? GRAHUIS: Music? BALE: What kind of music were you INTERVIEWER: You love the organ music. BALE: Yeah, Opa was big into organ music. That was also another thing. GRAHUIS: Yeah, I love guitar music. INTERVIEWER: That’s good. GRAHUIS: That’s how he learned. INTERVIEWER: That’s one of the reasons. GRAHUIS: I have two guitars. BALE: We had an old, and this is another part of growing up Dutch, is Dad played the organ, and we had an old pump organ in our house, and he would, all the family would come over, he would pump the organ and we would all sing hymns around the organ. And that’s what we would do when we would all get together. Youd have coffee, or another big Dutch thing is drinks. INTERVIEWER: Wine. GRAHUIS: Glass of wine. BALE: Little glass of wine. GRAHUIS: Like we had last night. We don’t overdo it. Oh no, just a little bit. BALE: We would play the pump organ and we would all sing around the pump organ. People don’t do that anymore. INTERVIEWER: It’s kind of like the American the American idea of singing around the campfire with a guitar and stuff. BALE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Yeah GRAHUIS: Where’s my purse. I need to take my medication. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, my grandma really likes to do that, get around the piano or something and sing songs and stuff. BALE: Oh really? Page 34 �INTERVIEWER: Is your grandma Dutch? Yeah she is. Yeah. BALE: I think that was a big thing with the Dutch is that, and that’s what you did growing up, is that after church, you would go to either your uncles or your aunts and you would all get together for coffee. GRAHUIS: Yeah, we did. BALE: And we’d always have we’d always talk and you’d have cookies and yeah, just gathering and hanging out. INTERVIEWER: Exactly. BALE: And no computers. GRAHUIS: No, no computers. BALE: And the cousins would play together. GRAHUIS: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, good times. INTERVIEWER: Good food and good company. I said good food and good company. That’s great. GRAHUIS: Yeah. So, we should not forget that I have to go to my bible study. BALE: Yeah, she has a gathering to get to. INTERVIEWER: What time? It’s okay. BALE: Six o’clock I have to be at a restaurant. INTERVIEWER: Okay. We’ll make sure, we’ll make sure. Is there anything else you remember from, anything else, anything you want to share, about anything? Anything you want to be written about? Like we’re going to be writing a paper on this. Is there anything you want us to acknowledge? GRAHUIS: . BALE: Can I say something? I remember a very important event which I was able to go with you, was when I was at Calvin, I think it was at Calvin. or I was living in Grand Rapids going to school and you wanted to become a U.S. citizen. So I went down to, down to the courthouse, or I don’t remember, it was in Grand Rapids somewhere, and we went into a big room with many other folks from all different countries. We sat there, we went, we sat through an entire ceremony, and all the flags were represented, and then you receive your American citizenship. That was a really cool time. And you had to say the Pledge of Allegiance. It was really awesome. INTERVIEWER: Did your dad do that too? BALE: He did, but earlier. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Page 35 �BALE: I wasn’t around when dad became a citizen. GRAHUIS: No, dad went into the military. That’s, automatically how you become a citizen. INTERVIEWER: Oh okay, that makes sense. BALE: I also remember you did not graduate from, you never received your diploma from the Netherlands from high school. GRAHUIS: I got it when I came here. BALE: She went into America, you got your GED, you had to study, you had to take a test to get your high school diploma. I don’t know why you never graduated. INTERVIEWER: When did you get your diploma in high school? Were you alive, Mom? BALE: Oh yeah. Oh, I remember mom, I was in, I think I was in junior high or high school. I was in, yeah, you were studying for your GED because you wanted to graduate. INTERVIEWER: But you still had jobs and everything, you know? The difference between now and then. Now you have to go to college to get a job. It’s crazy. How was learning English? Was that difficult? GRAHUIS: Yeah, well I learned that in high school. We take, we learned. BALE: In the Netherlands. GRAHUIS: Yeah, we take German, French, English. All those. BALE: Italian? GRAHUIS: No, not Italian. BALE: Oh I thought you did. INTERVIEWER: So you know them all? GRAHUIS: Well French I don’t, I never kept up. I know German. I know of course English and Dutch. All those languages I studied. INTERVIEWER: That makes sense. So by the time you came to America, you were fluent in English? GRAHUIS: Well, I can’t say fluent. I did my best. INTERVIEWER: You could understand, Okay. Well that’s cool. GRAHUIS: When I came to this country I was living with my sister, and they would they would listen to the radio orthings I didn’t understand, hut you learn. INTERVIEWER: You put yourself in the environment and you kind of learn how it is. GRAHUIS: Yeah, yeah. Page 36 �INTERVIEWER: That’s awesome. I think that’s good. Is there anything else you want to share? GRAHUIS: Not that I know of. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GRAHUIS: We’ll have another meeting sometime. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. That’s the interview. END OF INTERVIEW Page 37 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b10abc3d867c92b3a07cd428e0fe1569.mp3 2dd12b6b79bfc5f986c60c3971c2204d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Grahuis_Helen Title A name given to the resource Helen Grahuis audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grahuis, Helen Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cohen, Alissa Frazer, Hannah Byker, Bryce Bale, Eli Description An account of the resource Helen Grahius was born and raised in Haren, Groningen, Netherlands. Later in life, she moved to West Michigan to be with her siblings. She discusses her life in the Netherlands and in the United States. Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Women--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-16 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9ce0168d961bc0bb41880d703e207897.pdf 01c87c76c276c326585a696beb82ded9 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Helen Shiller Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 7/10/2012 Biography and Description Helen Shiller, a Jewish American born in 1947 in Long Island, New York. Her father had immigrated to the United States from Latvia and her mother from Belarus. She moved to Chicago’s Uptown neighborhood in 1972, living on N. Malden Street. Initially she drove a cab and worked as a waitress. At an early age, she became active in the anti-Vietnam War movement while attending college at the University of Wisconsin at Madison. In Chicago, she helped to organize the Intercommunal Survival Committee with Rev. Walter “Slim” Coleman. The organization functioned as a sort of white support arm of the Black Panther Party and later evolved into the Heart of Uptown Coalition, a group dedicated to providing essential services to the poor. She also edited Keep Strong magazine.In 1978 Ms. Shiller ran for Alderman of Chicago’s 46th ward, building on the organizing work done by the Jiménez for Aldermanic Campaign 1973-1975, and making fair housing and stopping the displacement of Latinos and the poor a centerpiece of her campaign. She was defeated, largely as a result of welldocumented corruption and unfair campaign practices by the opposition. In 1979, she ran again. This time she won the primary but did not have the mandatory 51% minimum of the vote. In a run-off election, she lost by a mere 200 votes to the regular machine candidate. �Again, intimidation, racist threats, and a major fire in her campaign headquarters just three weeks before the election made her campaign especially difficult. Ms. Shiller also worked on the Harold Washington Campaign for mayor of Chicago, operating the print shop, Justice Graphics, and publishing a bilingual newspaper, the All-Chicago City News with Mr. Coleman. In 1987, she again ran for Alderman of the 46th ward. This time she won and served six terms, holding the office until 2011 when she retired. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Okay. HELEN SHILLER: Okay. JJ: Just, if you want to (inaudible), or if you want to give me your name and your date of birth and where you were born. HS: Okay. So, my name is Hellen Shiller. I was born on November 24, 1947, and I was born in Brooklyn, New York. JJ: Oh, you’re from Brooklyn, New York? HS: Yeah. Came to Chicago in June of 1972. I was living in Racine and came here a couple of times before then, once the winter before, the Christmas of 1971, I think. It was either ’70, ’71 or ’71, ’72. I actually can’t remember. It would have had to have been ’70, ’71. I couldn’t have come here that next year. JJ: How did you get to Racine? [00:01:00] HS: I went there from Madison, Wisconsin where I went to college. JJ: So, you grew up -- HS: I grew up in -- JJ: What part of the Brooklyn? HS: I was born in Brooklyn. We lived in Queens. Then we lived in Long Island. When I was 14, there were some family issues. My parents decided the best way to deal with that was to get me away from them. They didn’t tell me that. (Laughs) So, they sent me away thinking -- me thinking, “Oh, okay. I really screwed up somewhere here.” But they sent me away to school to Vermont. 1 �JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: So, they sent me away to school, and I was there for three years. And I graduated. It was a very small school, a hundred students, in Vermont. And I wanted to go to a college that was as far away as I could get, at least far enough away that to visit you had to take a plane from the East Coast -- it was harder to travel in those days -- with enough [00:02:00] people that I could get lost and where I could study history and with a very short application. Those were my four requirements. So, the counselor gave me two schools to apply to. I applied to some smaller schools. Didn’t like it. But then, gave me two schools to apply to. One was Madison, and the other was University of Michigan Ann Arbor. And I got the response from Madison first, so I went there. JJ: Okay, so, you mentioned history there. So, what was the --first of all, are there any other brothers and sisters? Are there siblings -- HS: I’ve got -- I grew up with -- JJ: -- and what are their names? HS: I grew up with three brothers. But I have several others running around, brothers and sisters. But I grew up with three brothers. JJ: What are their names? What are some of their names? HS: Bob, Ed, and Larry. They’re five and six years older than me and six years younger than me. So, I was like right in the middle. [00:03:00] JJ: And what do they do now and where (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: The oldest is no longer with us. The other one has been -- was a journalist for years, and then, he did public relations. He lives in Canada and still does that. 2 �And the youngest one is a math whiz who does something with computers that I don’t quite understand. (Laughter) He’s a consultant apparently. JJ: And no sisters at all? HS: I have two sisters that are Brandon’s age, my son, who is now 41 actually. One of them -- JJ: He’s 41 now? HS: Yeah. So, I had two sisters. I was the only one in the family who actually literally, in either family, other than their parents who knew that they were our siblings until the youngest one was about 17 or 18. [00:04:00] And she figured it out and asked me, and I said yeah. We look pretty much alike. And she, the youngest one, died in childbirth, died a few -- she died a few years ago. The doctor -- she was nine months pregnant. And she lived in rural Pennsylvania. They were a half hour away from the hospital. And the doctor put her on bed rest to do a cesarian because he didn’t want to do it sooner. He gave her a week. The night before she was supposed to -- because she had some issues. The night before she was supposed to go have the cesarean, she stood up and went over to the couch to watch a movie with her husband. And when she stood up, when the movie was over, she had a blood clot. She had an embolism. It went into her lungs and killed her instantly. And by the time they got her to the hospital, the baby couldn’t survive either. So, we lost them both. That was really, really bad. [00:05:00] And then, she had another sister. She was the youngest. Then the next oldest was a girl who -- another sister who just couldn’t deal with the family dynamics. So, I see her very rarely. 3 �JJ: But you didn’t -- so, you didn’t grow up all together? HS: No, I only grew up with -- JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Plus I had another brother and another -- I had an older brother that I never met, but I found out about him even though my mother knew and had told -- my older brother who survived knew. But I never knew that we had any older siblings. But it turns out that we did have an older brother who is 20 years older than me. And his sons, who I guess are my nephews and are just maybe 10 years younger than me, found me a few years back. And that’s how I found out about them. And then, everyone acknowledged it. It’s like weird. I mean, I don’t understand the reason for these family secrets, honestly. So, big deal? (Laughs) I mean, what is the secret that’s someone’s there? So anyway, I discovered all sorts of family members over the years. [00:06:00] And then, I have a younger brother who is California who rides motorcycles. (Laughs) I mean, he does -- he works. He does IT stuff. JJ: He does another job, but (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: That’s his thing. You see him all the time on a motorcycle. He’s about seven years older than -- six or seven years older than Brandon. JJ: So, you grew up with both parents? HS: I grew up with both parents and three brothers. JJ: And what kind of work did they do (inaudible)? HS: My mother was a nurse, and then, she taught health in schools. Actually, her pension was from the state teacher’s pension fund in New York. And my father 4 �was a chemist who made paint [inaudible] and lacquers in the ’40s. He couldn’t - they wouldn’t accept him into the Army because he had lied on his age to come here because he came from Latvia when he was 12 years old alone. He had to pretend he was 16. [00:07:00] And so, he lied about his age. And so, everything had him four years old. JJ: So, he came here in (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: So, here’s my dad’s story. This is actually a very cool story, sort of deep story. He was born in 1908. And sometime -- WWI started in Latvia, in Europe around 1914. I don’t know the exact dates. His father was a tailor in a town called Liepāja, which is on the coast of the Baltic Sea. The capital of Latvia is Riga, which is 240 kilometers -- I don’t know how many miles that is -- northwest of Liepāja. So, it’s sort of like that or the other way around if you’re looking from your direction. (Laughs) And Riga is the capital. They’re both port cities. But Riga is the capital. Liepāja is where they lived. And then, father east, obviously, [00:08:00] is the Russia. This is before the Soviet Union. His father used to go to St. Petersburg in Russia every now and then to get textiles for the tailor shop. In around 1914 -- so, my dad would have been around six -- he went there to get -- five or six, actually -- he went there to get his textiles and on the way back got stuck in Riga because Germany had invaded, and they had occupied most of Latvia, everything to the west. But they were stopped right outside Riga by the Latvian Guard. So, his dad was stuck in Riga and he was in Liepāja with his family. So, in order for the family to survive, my dad, who was the oldest of four, would take things from the tailor shop and sell them on the street. So, he -- that’s 5 �how they survived until the war was over. His dad returned. And an uncle -[00:09:00] after his dad returned -- an uncle from the States sent them some money for one person to come to the states. And usually, that was the father, and then, they’d bring everyone else later. But because his father had been gone for four years, they decided -JJ: His father went -- what? HS: Had been gone for four years. Apparently -- we pieced this together, my brother and I. And it turns out I have a cousin who survived the war, which we didn’t think we had. So, we rediscovered our family there. And between my brother and my cousin -- this is what we figured out. That his family thought they were giving him a reward. They were rewarding him for coming. He thought he was being punished, which is why I went to school -- it resonated with me when I heard this story how people think one thing when actually the reason for it is entirely different, the opposite. And so, he came to the U.S. thinking he had been really sort of disowned by his family and at a time when it was very hard to communicate. This was 1920. [00:10:00] So, he came here. He always talked about going to Chicago and then from Chicago coming back to New York. But I’ve checked the manifests, and his cousin -- his family member who vouched for him was from New York. So, I’m not sure about all that. But I know he was in New York, stayed there, was self-educated, came over on the boat knowing five languages. None of them were English. He was very shy, was embarrassed that he didn’t know English. He started studying it, learned that English is a phonetic language, could not figure out how to spell his name, which was Shimyacha, was 6 �really, really embarrassed by it. So, he picked the name Shiller because he knew that was a poet. That meant that must be someone important. He knew he was famous. JJ: So, what was the last name? HS: Shimyacha. And he -- and they don’t know how to spell it either. I have a census from 1940 from Liepāja where it’s spelled twice two different ways. (Laughs) So, he [00:11:00] took the name Shiller, and he intentionally took the “C” out of the name Shiller because he had learned that English was a phonetic language and he was going to be proper about it. He was coming to America. So, that’s how we got the name. And so, I kept it. I gave it to my son. We’ve kept that name. It’s been our thing. So anyway, he came here. He didn’t communicate with anyone in his family. And then, when the war came to Europe, the Second World War, he knew that they were going to have a problem, and he knew that when the news started coming out about Jews being rounded up, et cetera, he just assumed everyone was killed. At the same time, he tried to sign up to fight in the war because he really wanted to fight fascism. Fascism was a thing for him, always. And they wouldn’t let him because he was too old. But he wasn’t, and he couldn’t tell him because he then would have been totally illegal. So, [00:12:00] he ended up starting his own business. (Laughs) It was a long way around. But the only chemical companies at the time were companies that were supporting the Nazis in Germany, Dow Chemical, DuPont. At least, that’s what he thought. I actually don’t have any facts to that, to back that up. And 7 �consequently, he said, “I can’t work for any of them.” So, he started his own business. JJ: So, he came right out and -- you discussed that? I mean, you brought that out or -- HS: Yeah, he talked about this stuff. JJ: “I can’t support (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).” HS: Well, this was -- I wasn’t born yet. But later on, that’s what he told me. He said he couldn’t work for them. Now, I doubt he could have worked for anyone. (Laughter) I think he liked to work for himself. So, he started his own business. And he made paint [inaudible] and lacquers for adhesive -- I mean, for -- I’m sorry -- for textiles, which I think is -- JJ: Was it a big company? Did it (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: No, it was very small. JJ: Very small? HS: It always was small and made a living. Half the time he was going bankrupt. When they sent me away to school, after I was there for six months, he went bankrupt. [00:13:00] The treasurer was friends with my mom and they gave me a de facto scholarship. They couldn’t pay. The school that I had gone to was -- the high school I went to was -- it was an alternative school sort of, I mean, I guess. The founder was a guy named David Bailey who had married a woman, a white woman from South Africa who was the senior English teacher and the epitome of a witch from my own point of view. (Laughter) But he was very -- by the time I knew him, he was already suffering from cancer. He died about a year after I 8 �graduated, I think a year or two. But he was beloved. He was unique, and he created the school that -- he was like a kid when I knew. [00:14:00] But he created a school that -- I mean, without any accreditation -- that had the ability to get students into virtually any school they wanted to go to, from Harvard on down. It was pretty remarkable. And he had -- it was really the school that, if you were from the East Coast, you were one of the Brahmin class, you know, one of those guys, and your family expectation was that you were going to go to all the best schools and blah, blah, blah, but you’ve been kicked out of every one of the rest of the prep schools that existed, Woodstock was the place you ended up. Or if you were from a progressive family who had been otherwise was blackballed or what have you or had a reputation, you would end up there too. So, when I was at school there, Pete Seeger’s daughter was there, Thorsen Horton -- I mean, Myles Horton’s son Thorsten was there [00:15:00] from Highlander School. Paul Sweezy -- I think it was Sweezy -- who was the editor of Monthly Review -- his son was there. So, there were people that were extremely -- were intellectuals or who were greatly involved in movements of the left at the time that had their children there as well. So, this was this really interesting sort of mix or sort of rebellious -JJ: So, was this the first time that you (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: No, no. My parents were involved in leftwing politics their whole lives. But they weren’t -- they’re different than a lot of the people I know who that was the case with. I mean, they didn’t send their kids to any of those camps or -- you know, there were all these different sort of -- they didn’t necessarily participate in that 9 �social life. Although my mother often in the ’30s and ’40s, [00:16:00] went to -- I know this because I’ve seen the results of it. They used to have coffees, like they used to do for the elections (laughs) but among the left. So, they did it mostly for artists. So, they would do it for artists, and what’s how the artist survive. So, I have that print up there, for instance, from Diego Rivera, that’s signed by him -- it’s a print, but it’s signed by him in pencil -- that she bought from him at one of those coffees when he was in New York in the ’30s just trying to survive. So, he would come to New York, and he did murals and stuff. But he would come to New York with his stuff, and he’d go around to different people, and they’d talk about politics. And then, they’d sell their stuff. We have three -JJ: Did your parents organize it, or did they (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: No, no, no, no. My father rarely went, I think, because he wasn’t much of a sociable guy. JJ: So they’d paint (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- HS: This was my mother, my mother would just -- yeah. She had at one point -- but I don’t know what happened to it -- a 78 from Paul Robeson, which is how I found out about these things. She said, “Oh, he just came to one of those things I was at. We were both at the same place at the same time.” But I thought this was really interesting because it’s really how they survived. [00:17:00] Alice Neel, who was a remarkable artist who died in 1986, I think, did portraits for a living. And she’d get $200 a portrait. They now sell for 10 times that, if not more. And she -- my mother was looking to give my father a birthday present. In 1958, he had a heart attack. She wanted to give him a present or something. Anyway, 10 �someone suggested -- reminded her that they’d met Alice and she threw these same things, same sort of events. And so, my mother had her do a picture of my dad, and they became really close friends. She had her do one of my mom and one of each of -- my three brothers and I together and then one of my younger brother after he was born. But they became really, really close friends. So, it was -- I don’t know how to describe it. [00:18:00] My dad got kicked out of the Communist Party because he argued with everyone all the time. And I -JJ: So, he was actually a member of the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: He was. And I think that I know he was kicked out now in retrospect because he had this conversation with me -- we had a conversation when I was 17 or 18. I think it was 18. We actually had an argument about what I was doing, and I wasn’t doing enough. This might be two conversations, or it was one that had two parts. But he was really upset with me because I wasn’t doing enough with the war in Vietnam. That was part of the conversation. But the other part of the conversation was about what communism was. And his point of view about that was communism doesn’t exist. The notion that anyone is living in communism is crazy. These people are out of their minds. Communism will only exist because communism is the pure notion that people actually have what they need and can enjoy the life and don’t have to worry about whether they have their needs met. [00:19:00] Then they can realize their full potential. So, you can’t do that unless everyone is practicing socialism. So, it’s about socialism. It’s not about communism. (Laughs) But his point was even then, unless you’re really doing it in a manner that allows for people to be able to have what they need in order to 11 �be able to realize their fullest potential and have that kind of energy and excitement in the world everywhere, everywhere, then you could never reach any ideal of that anywhere. And so, that was very impactful to me. That had a huge impact on just -- on everything because it was contradictory to the way everyone always talked about stuff on the left and all the intellectuals to make everything difficult. And it was something that I really -- that I actually could relate to. JJ: And you were about how old in this conversation? HS: I was 17 or 18. JJ: About 17 or 18. So, you were still in that school or (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: No, no, no. It was definitely after. It was definitely [00:20:00] when I was already in college. I went to college when I was 17. But I think it was probably the summer that I was 18. But I’m not really 100 percent sure. JJ: But in the alternative school, you were not exposed to other (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: At Woodstock? Well, yeah, totally Woodstock. I mean, it was a common thing for -- JJ: It was Woodstock? HS: Woodstock Country School in South Woodstock, Vermont. It started out as a cow barn. It’s now a horse barn. It’s all gone. What was I going to tell you? You asked me about -- oh, okay. So, Myles Horton ran the Highlander School, and it was pretty traditional, for at least some of us, every summer, some students every summer, to go for a month, either August or July. And I decided in ’68 that 12 �I was going to go by hook or by crook in August, and I started working on my parents. That’s just what it’s like. [00:21:00] They were very protective of me, (laughter) even though they kept sending me away. They thought they were protecting me. But in -- I think it was -- before the summer even began, the school was burned down by the Klan. So, I never got there. But that whole series of things was very impactful on me. So, I was -- that would have meant that that was -- I’m trying to think if it was before or after Kennedy was killed. I was there when Kennedy was killed. I was there -- my first year there -- I went there for three years -- was during the missile crisis because I remember that. I remember being -- I remember I was up there. I was with students, not with my parents. It was in October, I think, the Cuban Missile Crisis. And so, we -- that ended up being our conversations. And there were [00:22:00] -- I mean, they were extraordinary teachers. They were people that just really believed in education and giving you the -- they believed we (break in audio) so we had these conversations that were pretty remarkable and we were encouraged to have them between ourselves. And the school had a hundred students, but it also had -- well, when I was there, I think there were five of us that were either Jewish or African American. But I think by the time -- when I got there. By the time I left there were five -- I think there were five African American students and five Jewish students. But I can’t actually identify them anymore. So, maybe it was still five and five. But they always -- so, for that time -- this was the ’60s; I graduated in ’65 -- that was pretty extraordinary. And so, it was part of the conversation. I mean, I don’t know what to do. But [00:23:00] there was like any 13 �other high school teenagers -- I mean, they made cruel jokes (laughter) about me because I had this really thick Long Island accent, which I worked really hard to get rid over time because I was so embarrassed by their constant taunts against me. I mean, it was a really elite -- the people who were there came from an elitist environment. And it was -- some of the people there came from an elitist environment, and other people there -JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible) HS: Well, they were from the eastern, north eastern elite, really. They had money. They expected to succeed. At least this was my impression. Although as I think of individuals that I knew, I don’t know that that’s so true. I mean, I had one friend who grew up with the Rockefellers. But he wasn’t a Rockefeller, (laughs) on the other hand. So, I’m not really sure. [00:24:00] And maybe my impression of that and therefore my characterization over the years hasn’t been entirely accurate. But there were people that knew that they had a future across the board. I don’t mean this -- so, forget all of my assumptions or even sort of negative connotations. And these were just kids. But as I’m thinking, I always assumed that their parents were either very progressive or very reactionary, and somehow we all ended up there. But I’m not so sure now because I have no idea. But a couple of my friends, who I was really close to, surprised me when I left. And one of them was the person who grew up with the Rockefellers. The other one was someone from Woodstock, New York, whose parents just turned out to be -- or who himself turned out to be not very progressive. But I don’t 14 �understand -- I don’t actually -- I never actually knew the parents. So, I just made assumptions. JJ: So, they surprised you because you thought they were progressive? HS: No, I’m just thinking now. It’s surprising me now because I’m not [00:25:00] really -- yeah, the two? Well, when I was 17 or 18 or 19 or even 20 and knew all these -- I mean, when you’re in high school -- when I was in high school, my friends were -- there were only a hundred of us. You had your friends. Everyone was an acquaintance. But if you had a friend, that was a real friend, you’d expect that they stick you with you forever and ever. And so, three, four, five years later, as we grew and led our lives and became whoever we began the journey of becoming whoever we were going to become and we’d talk to each other, I never in my wildest imaginations had ever thought that if you disagreed with what someone was doing, you’d never talk to them again. But two of them disowned me when I decided to go to Cuba. It’s like, “Oh, you’re kidding, right?” (Laughter) And especially because the reason I went, I thought, was really appropriate. There had been -- I’m jumping ahead a minute. But there had been [00:26:00] a trip to Cuba in 1968, early ’68, that five members of the Black Panther Party had taken. And two of them had come from one coast and three of them had come from the other. I don’t know which. And they had gone through Mexico. But when they go to Mexico City, they were kidnapped by some American intelligence agency and sent back to the opposite coast from which they came. So, SDS decided they were going to challenge that, and they decided that they were going to have a trip of 30 students, which ended up being 29 white students 15 �and one Puerto Rican, college students. So, we -- people applied, blah, blah, blah. JJ: What college was this? HS: Pardon? JJ: What college? HS: It was from all over the country. So, everyone from all over the country applied. [00:27:00] JJ: And you were a member of SDS? HS: Actually, no, at that point, in Madison, SDS and -- JJ: You were in Madison. HS: I was in Madison, and we had created -- friends of mine actually had formed the Draft Resistance Union. And there was tension between SDS and the Draft Resistance Union. But SDS -- we built the -- I mean, I came back and spoke for SDS when I ended up on the trip. But I didn’t -- so, it was a fraternal relationship though with the Draft Resistance Union. So, it was friends of mine who recommended that they send me. At that point, I wasn’t really -- I was never one for being that -- I wasn’t into organizational structures. I wasn’t into doing organizational work. I was into being there. So, when we had the first civil disobedience in Madison, I was there. I was one of the people that voted to do it, to sit down as opposed to picket. When the Black students went on strike, I was one of the students who went in teams into classrooms to explain the strike [00:28:00] to other students. But I didn’t sit back and organize stuff. I just did 16 �stuff. Do you know what I mean? I mean, sometimes I did because you had to. But what wasn’t my thing. JJ: But tell me about the trip, and I’ll come back to (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: So, we -- the trip to Cuba? JJ: Yeah. HS: So, they ended up picking 30 students from around the country. There’s a lot of back stories, but I’m not going to go into them. I mean, I could, but this is going - this is not going to be an hour conversation. (Laughter) We’re nowhere near Chicago. So, we can have those -- you can go back if you want. But anyway, we ended up being in Cuba for about eight or nine weeks. It was quite remarkable. It was August of 1968. JJ: What did you do there? HS: We did everything there, I mean, literally. We went all over the country. We talked to people everywhere. We had our tourism. [00:29:00] We went through factories, and they showed us all the development stuff they were doing in every field, I mean, from art to construction. We saw the movies that were being made. We went to different theaters. We literally probably -- we went all over the whole island. I mean, it’s not that big an island, and we were literally there for eight weeks, I think, at least eight weeks because we didn’t come back until October, and we went in the beginning of August. So, it was -- and we did go to (laughs) -we did go to one speech in Havana in the big square, which is either called Revolution Square or Independence Square -- I can’t remember. And Fidel spoke, and he spoke, and he spoke, and he spoke, and he spoke. (Laughter) 17 �Fortunately -- my Spanish isn’t great. But Yvette, who was the only nonwhite [00:30:00] student on the tour, and I became really good friends. And I picked up immediately that her problem was that everybody expected her to translate for them. So, I never asked her to translate for me. So, I had to figure out what people were saying. So, occasionally, she would tell me of her own volition. But it was the only time I get even close to being fluent in Spanish, which of course I thereby immediately lost by not using it when I came back. So, I did understand about 50 percent of what he was saying. JJ: But what was the atmosphere? HS: It was unbelievable. I mean, it was extraordinary. The whole place was full. It was the first time I saw -- I mean, people were engaged back and forth. It was the first time -- I mean, we saw more of that later on during Harold’s election. We saw a little of that -- it was reflective of some -- I mean, I saw it on TV; I wasn’t there -- at the March on Washington, the civil rights march a few years earlier. That was, I guess, four years earlier. [00:31:00] But it was -- yeah, it was very dynamic to me at that point. I don’t know before or after or whatever. This was pre Venceremos Brigade. The Venceremos Brigade came out of that visit. So, anyway -- JJ: And the Venceremos Brigade was -- HS: The Venceremos Brigade was organized the following year. And it was students going to apply to go and work for a month or so in the cane fields in Cuba because cane was their primary economic engine. 18 �JJ: Okay. So now, you came back. You’re in Madison. And now you’re working with the draft resistors (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: The draft resistors were actually my friends. It was formed in ’67. And they were doing their thing. And then, SDS -- I came back -- I was a senior -- I came back and I did some speeches and [00:32:00] stuff for SDS. It was that same year was the year the Black student strike. But the prior year, the summer that I went to Cuba, there were a group of students from -- this was the Draft Resistance Union that organized this. And they organized teams to go to different communities all over Wisconsin. And then, during the -- maybe they started that in ’67. But they were definitely doing it by ’68 over the summer. And then, sometime during that year or at the end of that summer, there were people who -it must have been after that because Dan Sweeney was one of them, and he was there in ’68 -- decided that they were going to go to -- by mid ’69, these communities existed. They decided they were going to go to three different communities and start doing organizing work. So, one was Milwaukee. One was Waukegan, Illinois. And the other was Racine, Wisconsin. So, there were [00:33:00] two people in Racine, and then [Mark Zukin?] joined them. And then, he recruited me later at the end of the year to go there after I recruited him to run around and take people to hospital during miscellaneous activities. JJ: So, you recruited each other? HS: Yeah, he did more recruiting than I did. (Laughter) And that’s what he was very good at. And so, there were people in Racine, and there were people in 19 �Milwaukee, and there were people -- by ’69, when I left Madison, there were people in Racine, Waukegan or north Chicago, and Milwaukee. JJ: You never went back to New York (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: No, no. My plan was actually to go to Sweden and weave. (Laughs) JJ: And weave? HS: Weave. I was a weaver. I use to weave literally. I had a loom. I had a huge loom. I had to get an apartment as a student off campus to house my loom. (Laughs) [00:34:00] This is true. I used to weave things. Susan Rosenbloom still has something I wove. JJ: Has a what? HS: She’s the only person. Susan Rosenbloom still has something I wove. JJ: Oh, really? HS: Yeah. It’s the only thing I wove that still exists. Anyway, I went -- no, so, I ended up -- I chose instead -- then I thought for a minute maybe I should go to Mexico and do weaving. And then, I said, “Oh, come on, this is a joke.” I went to Racine. (Laughs) So, we went to Racine. Mark recruited me, and Steve Gold, who also was at Madison, graduating when I did. JJ: Steve Cole? HS: Gold, not Cole. Steve Gold. Steve Cole went to Milwaukee. JJ: So, you knew him then? HS: Yes. And we recruited him from Milwaukee to come -- JJ: You say “we,” it’s still the draft -- HS: Well, okay -- so, no, no, no, no, no. They’re -- I’m not -- 20 �JJ: Okay, you move on. HS: When I saw “we” at this point, it’s the three of us. It’s me and Steve Gold and Mark -- go to Racine. [00:35:00] And we -- I’m actually not sure when Steve went. He might have come at the end of the summer. I don’t remember him at the beginning of the summer. But we went there and the idea was (inaudible) take these guys (inaudible) [have to work or nothing?] because it was really influenced by Dan Sweeney who still -- the means of production. Now, he’s created a whole school actually today in Chicago that deals with making sure that people are educated to be able to continue to work in manufacturing by having a proper education deal with new technologies. But anyway, this was back then. So, the idea was everybody was supposed to get a factory job. So, we go get factory jobs which lasts maybe three months before we’re all blacklisted. But while it lasted, Mark and I had two different -- we were on two opposite shifts, so we never saw each other. But [00:36:00] I discovered that the way he got through his shifts was literally drinking a pint of gin every day. So, by the end of the summer, I started kind of worrying about him because clearly it was having an impact on his health. And in retrospect, what I learned -- what I know now or I knew several -- 10, 15 years later, which we didn’t know then was that he was working in a foundry where the temperatures were 100, 150 degrees, lifting 100 pound pieces of car parts, doing piecework with someone else who became good friends of ours, Nate, who was bigger and stronger than Mark (laughs) and sort of carried him along. But I am sure that was the trigger for his MS. JJ: Oh, his MS? 21 �HS: I am sure. Yeah, it’s how he died. He died in ’98, and I’m sure that was the trigger. About a year after that, he had -- the first time he collapsed -- and [00:37:00] you know, I didn’t -- it didn’t make any sense when you thought about it later because he never had pain. He would just collapse and he could not move. His back would go out. And that happened twice -- once or twice in Racine. One time I remembered -- I’m sure it was twice, but I can only remember one time. But it was horrible. I mean, I had to call a friend of ours, who was big, to come pick him up because he collapsed on our porch stairs midway outside. So, that was a year and a half after that -- or maybe not even that much. Anyway, the point is we were in the factories at the end of the summer. And we’re like, “This is crazy. You’re drinking every day. We never see each other. We’re not doing any work. I mean, we’re working. We don’t have time to even think of doing any organizing. And this is what we really want to do. And shouldn’t we really be finding the young people?” So, we decided that we wanted to talk to young people [00:38:00] and start working in the high schools. And two people that we were there with, Suzie and Jodie, said, “Oh, no.” Whatever, whatever. So, they decided to move to Detroit and work with workers, and we stayed there. And I think that’s when Steve came, Gold, not Cole. So, we’re doing our thing. We go in -- we do stuff that I think today we’d be arrested for -- but which was -- we would -- I mean, I don’t think you could do it today. We took a group -- we started hanging around the high schools and talking to students and talking about who knows what. And I actually have some -- I do have some of our old -- I think I have some of our literature from Racine. 22 �JJ: (inaudible) HS: So, we took a car full of students who walked out of school, got in our car, and drove with us to Chicago to hear Fred Hampton speak outside the Chicago 7 Trial in September, [00:39:00] that one that we -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) HS: Yeah. I’m sure I saw you there, just didn’t know it. So, we did that a few times without anyone’s permission or anything, which is why I think it was probably -whatever. But we were organizing among students. We had a little student newspaper. JJ: These are students from (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: High school, public school in Racine. JJ: In Racine? HS: It was mostly, I think, probably about the war and about -- and we were selling Black Panther papers too. JJ: Because we were organizing with the Panther people here to come -- HS: Here, yeah. JJ: -- to the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Yeah, I’m sure we did. (Laughs) So, we sold Black Panther papers. So, Mark and I sort of gravitated towards doing more of that stuff and less of being in the factories. JJ: Now, is this part of the survival committee? Was it all -- HS: Not yet, not yet. So, the summer [00:40:00] that I moved to Racine, the Black Panther Party had in California, National Conference to Combat Fascism, the 23 �first one. The ISCs came out of that. And that was in July, I think. And Mark and I had had a huge fight, and some of my best friends from college were living in San Francisco, my roommates. And I said, “Well, screw all of you guys. I’m going to California for a couple weeks.” (Laughs) So -- no, this wasn’t ’68. This was -- I’m sorry (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) I was actually wrong. No, it wasn’t. JJ: It was before then? HS: Oh, wait a minute. Now I’m confusing two different events. But I know I went out there when I was pregnant. JJ: Well, it could have been ’68 (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: There was something in ’68, and I went out there. But then, I went -- JJ: And we went (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Yeah. But when I went out there, it was ’70. The second time I went out there, it was ’70. So, I went there again in ’70. But ’68 was the first one. And I remember -- and we had had an argument or something. [00:41:00] And I said, “I’m just -- I’ve got to get away, and I want to go to this conference. So, I’m going to California.” But the second time was -- I know I was just a few months pregnant with Brandon. Maybe it wasn’t the summer. It might have been the fall. But I went out there again. I know there was stuff that I did both times. But in -this was ’68. And then, when we came back, we hooked up with -- there was a chapter of the Black Panther Party in Rockford when I -- because I went alone. When I came back, there was a chapter of the Black Panther Party in Rockford, and there was a something -- branch -- they didn’t call it chapters; t wasn’t quite a 24 �chapter -- let’s for the sake of the conversation call them branches, but I think they had another name -- in Milwaukee. Loretta X was in Milwaukee and Harold Bell and Ray Lewis were in Rockford. And we hooked up with the folks at Milwaukee first because it felt -- they actually -- I’m not sure if they were closer or not, but it felt closer since they were in the same state. I think they might have been closer actually. And we used to go back and forth. [00:42:00] We did -- we just did literature. I don’t know why it sort of came to us, both Mark and I, naturally. And him, the writing, me the laying out. And so, we would do stuff with them, and then, we would do our own stuff and bring it up there and print or something. I think they had the equipment to print and we were able to do layout. And so, we went back and forth. They had a mimeograph. But we were back and forth to Milwaukee all the time and we’d get our papers from them. So, we went up there once a week. And then -JJ: And you weren’t working with SDS. You were working more with the Panthers? HS: In ’68, when I left -- ’69 -- it was ’69 that I went out there because ’69 was when I graduated. In ’69 when I left -- so, ’69 when the National Congress to Combat Fascism was. And then, the next -- yeah, so, I went up ’69 and ’70. In ’69, then I [00:43:00] left -- when I’d first come to Racine -- when I’d graduated and first come to Racine, there was a big SDS conference in Chicago. And that was when there was the split between the Weathermen and the Revolutionary Youth Movement. And I remember that because the folks -- I told Mark, “I feel like we’re just going from one bar mitzvah to another.” Especially -- we went to Lincoln Avenue to the old -- oh, what was that film place called? No, Newsweb -- 25 �no, it wasn’t Newsweb. Anyway, we went place on the second floor on Lincoln Avenue. And there was a -JJ: [Newsroom?]? HS: Yes. And we were invited to some party they were having. And it turned out it was a Weathermen Party. And [Mark Rudd?] was there from Columbia. And he was greeting everybody like just what you do at bar mitzvah. I literally -- when I left I said, “I just feel like I just left a bar mitzvah. So, between him and Travis -what was his name -- and a number of other people, we were really being courted, individually [00:44:00] and collectively. And meanwhile, there was [SLM?] and then on the other side who were sort of talking about the stuff -- JJ: [Walter Collin?]? HS: Yes, Walter Collin -- who were talking about the things that we really -- talking about survival programs and other stuff. So, we were organizing (break in audio). So, we ended up hooking up with the Revolutionary Youth Movement folks, RYM II, as I recall it was called. So, we had -- we did -- JJ: So, the Weathermen Underground was RYM I? HS: No. I don’t know what the -- no, I don’t know what RYM I was. I just remember (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) this was called RYM II. And I can’t remember why. I think it was sort of a second generation. It wasn’t in conflict with RYM I. I think the Revolutionary Youth Movement was something everybody talked about. And then, there was the split. Not really sure. I have some of the stuff. I mean, I could probably figure it out if I went back and read some of the stuff I have. I do have some of these old things. [00:45:00] 26 �JJ: You were RYM II (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: But we were Racine, and we did -- I know we did different things at different times. But basically what we were doing there was -- Mark was organizing the lawyers to do a legal clinic. There were -- the lawyers were all either Jewish -- for the most part, at least the ones we knew were either Jewish or Italian. And we got along just fine with (inaudible) them all and got them all to agree to do something pro bono. And I started hanging out with folks doing welfare defense and decided that we should -- and got into it with them and started talking about, “Well, let’s do some advocacy. Let’s do some welfare defense. Let’s look at it as a defense, not just as advocacy. Let’s look at it as a way to help people understand their rights so they can get what they need.” So, we started doing that more. Because -- and the hardcore folks were really just doing agitation, [00:46:00] which was very helpful. But then, let’s get something for it. So, we were doing that. And later on, when we came to Chicago, it became really models for other stuff we did here. But that’s pretty much what we were doing there except things would come up. So, for instance, I discovered that the way they were dealing with the outbreak of rubella among pregnant women was the public -- Department of Public Health in Racine decided, in their wisdom, that the best way to deal with this would be to inoculate -- require that all women who were pregnant get inoculated for German measles. (Laughs) So, let’s give them the measles in order to prevent them from having it. It was insane. And so, we couldn’t -- we told them, “You’re crazy,” and we tried to bring them some medical evidence and they wouldn’t change. So, we picketed for about week downtown 27 �Racine, which I don’t think they’d ever seen before. And after we did that, they actually changed the policy. [00:47:00] They also passed a law that said that more than two people on the street in downtown -- on Main Street in downtown Racine was loitering. And one day -- we had a book store. We started a book store to theoretically survive. It was a joke. But it was a very progressive book store, great books. And it was Steve and Mark and I were the owners of the book store. And we were standing outside the store one day talking because it was really hot. And we got arrested for loitering. And by the time -- I was like, “You’re kidding, right?” But I was really happy because we were really broke, and we hadn’t eaten all day. And we got to have bologna sandwiches, and I got a nap, which I rarely do. And we got out and they had to change the law because they realized they couldn’t prosecute us (laughs) for being in front of our own store. But they passed that law after we did the demonstrations. So, we did stuff like that. And Mark led -- I remember doing one march he organized that was really based on stuff they were doing [00:48:00] here. It was (inaudible) and big and it was -- it expressed his conflicting -JJ: Based on stuff that who was doing? The (inaudible)? HS: People both -- everybody was doing, everyone. Because in the fall, there was -the Days of Rage came out of a demonstration that was organized around the event. I don’t remember if that was what the event was. Do you? JJ: They were (inaudible) the year before the (inaudible) beaten up in the park and they wanted to show that -- the (inaudible) underground. HS: No, but there was something that both the Weather Underground and -- 28 �JJ: Well, we did (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: -- SDS across the -- no, I remember that, and I went on that march. I remember that march. And we went on that. JJ: So, you were with us on (inaudible)? HS: Yes, I remember that. But there was -- or maybe that’s what I’m thinking of. But I think that there was another march that SDS was doing. [00:49:00] It was an SDS march, but the Weathermen went off and broke a bunch of windows and things. And everybody got blamed for it. JJ: I believe that was at that same time. HS: Okay. JJ: Because we went downtown and -- HS: Yeah, yeah. JJ: -- we marched to Humboldt Park. HS: Okay. And I was -- yeah. So, back in Racine, at some point -- I don’t know if it was related to that or not because we were there actually. I don’t know if it was related to that or not. But there was a march that Mark organized, which I always felt was -- expressed his -- he was torn between the two because he had friends in both. He was just torn between the two because he was so frustrated and angry. He wanted to do stuff, and that’s really where a lot of the Weathermen stuff came from that we knew. But it also came from a sense that -- when is the point where you think you can’t have an impact? Because that was it as well. JJ: What do you mean? [00:50:00] HS: Well, I think that if you better -- 29 �JJ: Because that was the discussion at that time. HS: Yeah, that was -- well, I mean, I think the better example of it really is South Africa. But at some point, you take action. You know, there was a whole discussion because there was what was going on in Ireland, what was going on in South Africa, and then people relating it back here. And some people interpreting the fact that there was no legal recourse. And we hadn’t gone as far as they had gone in terms of legal recourse. But sort of jumping from A to Z instead of going through all the steps. And in the process of going through all the steps, I think it became apparent to some -- I mean, some of us felt that going through those steps meant that you weren’t getting -- didn’t jump ahead, that that was really -- that had to be -- circumstances had to be ripe to be able to do stuff that took on a violent aura to it. It really had to be necessary. It really had to be necessary. [00:51:00] It was really a question of necessity. And was it really necessary yet? And that was the debate, I think, that we were all having. And people made different choices. But for students, it was -- I don’t think we had -honestly, I don’t think we had enough life experience. The energy that we had -- I mean, I think about this all the time, and I’ve often thought about it as an alderman, thinking about what other people were doing and saying, in the end, it’s about where is the material impact. I mean, in my eyes for today, in the end, it’s about the material impact. And are the actions you’re taking going to have a better material impact on people’s lives or a worse material impact on people’s lives? What is the best path to actually have the best outcome? Not in the short or long term, but overall, in the real world. I mean, obviously, sometimes in life 30 �and in history, people have had to -- people have been heroes. I mean, the word -- hero is attached -- the notion of a hero is attached to someone who does what has to be done in order for [00:52:00] other people to have things better. So, yeah, that’s right. But you still have to -- you still have to do your best to make sure that it has the best outcome materially. In other words, in terms of people’s lives, in terms of their ability to grow and develop and realize their most potentially -JJ: In terms of people’s lives? HS: I think. So, it’s -- for me, it’s an ongoing conundrum. I think that the energy of youth is irreplaceable and irrepressible in a very good way. On the other hand, I think -- that doesn’t mean that they always know what’s right, that you always know when you’re that young what’s right because you don’t necessarily have the life experiences necessary or the time to have reflected on what that life experience really means. And the whole point is you’re in a process of growth and development and you’re -- being in the middle of the boiling pot is probably great from the long term [00:53:00] perspective because it’s going to give you so much to be able to figure that out and be more impactful later. But in the process, you’re being impactful and hopefully -- and you’re making choices. And so, what does it take for us to give our youth the foundation they need to make the best choices possible and the ones that will lead us in the most humane direction. JJ: So, what made you decide to move to Chicago as a group? Why’d you move? 31 �HS: Well, we were in Racine for three years. I was in Racine for three years. And personally -- and we were doing a lot of stuff. We had a huge clothing program and food giveaway program. We took very seriously building the lifeline for survival. That was really a concept of the Black Panther Party pending revolution. JJ: So, it was connected -- HS: We really did think there was going to be a revolution. JJ: You were connected with the Black Panther Party at the time? HS: All the time we were in Racine, yeah. Okay, wait. I forgot the most important thing. So, we’re in 1969. I’ve left. I’ve gone out to California. I’m back. Mark and I decide we’re going to leave the factory. We start organizing with students. We come to Chicago. We meet Fred Hampton. I mean, I must -- JJ: Where did you meet Fred Hampton? HS: We must have hooked up with [Slim?] at some point because I remember going over to the west side office with him. JJ: Okay. HS: It was me and Mark and I -- and he was -- JJ: And your impression for him? HS: Well, Fred was just -- oh, I also saw him at a speech in Racine -- I mean, in Madison when I was still at school there actually. He came out there to speak. Fred was just incredibly dynamic and very clear. He was well spoken and cursed a lot, but he really made sense. And he had -- I think -- the only thing I can tell you -- it sounds kind of corny, but his humanity just shone through [00:55:00] in a 32 �way that you rarely experience. You knew he was for real. You knew that he was sincere about what he was talking about, and he had a vision. He saw things pretty clearly in a way that was very attractive. That’s what my impression was. JJ: What was attractive? HS: Well, his clarity and his sense of humanity. You actually thought this could be a better world and you could do something about helping being a part of that. That’s how he made you feel. JJ: So, you saw -- you didn’t see it as a Black nationalist type of philosophy? HS: No. JJ: How did you see that? HS: I -- JJ: And I’m putting words (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: No, no, no, I understand. I was -- the first time I saw Fred I was a student. And he spoke at an assembly hall. It was across the street from where we did our first sit in. Shortly after that, maybe a year after that. [00:56:00] And at that point, I had -- there was a lot of -- there was -- it was a campus. So, it was students. They were mostly middle class. So, it’s not comparable to the real world. But in the context of the campus, there was a lot of repression that people who had organized -- a lot of pressure came down on people who had been organizers (inaudible) some of whom were really good friends of mine. And I had seen them really break or were breaking under that. And -- JJ: Pressure from whom? 33 �HS: The administration of the school. And we were struggling. It was obviously. This was -- I think he -- I don’t remember if he spoke the year [00:57:00] of the Black student strikes. But the Black students were organizing most of the time that I was there, at least the last couple years. And their demands were not unreasonable. They were demanding things I wanted to know about. I was a history major. I wanted to know about history. One of the first books that I actually read as a kid, chapter books, as they called -- was Freedom Road by Howard Fast. And it’s about Reconstruction and the carpetbaggers and the whole deconstruction of Reconstruction (laughs) basically in the South. And so, I wanted that history. I thought we should all know that. I thought that the lack of even history that we have, that we don’t learn the same things -- we don’t learn the history of all of us, and we don’t all learn it makes it really hard for people to understand and live together and be able to [00:58:00] respect each other. So, for me, all of that was just part of the real world. I guess the other story that I didn’t tell you is that my dad always talked about fascism. He always talked about how you have to fight it, no matter what. He said, “I don’t care what you do with your life.” Well, he did. But I mean, in the end. He said, “I do care what you do. Just don’t ever get arrested.” But he said, “I don’t care about a lot of things. But I want you to be able to recognize fascism when you see it and do something about it.” That was so important to him. And I just attributed it to his own history. But it was really embedded in everything from the day I was born. I mean, it was just -- it took me a while to understand that fascism is more than Nazism and to begin to see how it related to racism [00:59:00] and other things. But I was very 34 �aware of that by different things that happened, both in terms of things that my parents did that I thought were racist and/or just -- or were objectively expressing the racism of the society, the inequalities between people and the attitudes that people have about each other. So, all of that was part of what I brought -- more with questions and answers, but what I brought to those years of my life. And so, when Fred Hampton was coming, I was really excited. And I took what he said -you know, I never -- I always -- you know, people yell and they argue and they say stuff. But the real issue is what are they saying. And I was prepared to hear what everybody was saying. And so, he was very respectful. He was a respectful person who was also demanding respect, and I appreciated that. I can relate to that. [01:00:00] JJ: And you were also -- I mean, you had a group that was working directly with the Panthers. HS: Later. This was -- JJ: But this was later. HS: The first time I saw him was when I was in college. When I came to -- that was in ’68 I think, around them. It couldn’t have been ’67 because he was -- I think he came -- he started the party in ’68. So, it was ’68 or ’69. It might have been ’69 because the Black student strike was in ’69. It was January ’69, January or February, at least my calendar -- my internal calendar says so. When I came to Chicago, obviously it would have been in ’69 too. I saw him that one time at the rally when we brought the students. I was here and Slim gave us -- with Mark -- 35 �and Slim gave us a tour. We were doing something with him. And he probably started recruiting us in ’69. I’m sure. He was already trying to recruit us. JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible) come to Chicago or were brought here or -[01:01:00] from different -- HS: Branches of? JJ: I mean, of the (inaudible) coming in? HS: Oh, yeah. Well, in 1972 -- JJ: Oh, it was ’72. HS: In 1972, I moved to Chicago in January. I came here just with Brandon, my son. He was 15 months old. And we stayed with Linda Turner. And I worked on the clothing program. We were doing a clothing program. And then immediately switched over to beginning to work on the rally we were going to have in October, which was a rally to end police brutality and establish community control. And we were doing that at the Aragon in uptown. And we were going to and did serve -give our 3,000 bags of groceries. And Bobby Rush, who was then the minister of defense of the Chicago chapter of the Black Panther Party, was going to speak [01:02:00] and did speak. And we were going door to door. So, starting in maybe August or September -- it must have been August -- we started going door to door in uptown. Well, maybe we did that for the clothing (inaudible) maybe we had already started. I came here -- it was the end of December though. And so, for that event, Slim recruited the rest of -- recruited everyone who was in Racine and everyone who was in St. Louis to come here and to work on that. And of those folks, ultimately everybody ended up coming here. A few people from 36 �Racine didn’t come until January, but they came down to help us -- or some of them came down to help us. But some of them stayed. Some of those folks stayed after October. But by January, everybody was here. That was really the catalyst (inaudible). And then, the next -JJ: By January of ’73 or ’72? HS: Oh, January of ’73, yeah. [01:03:00] October of ’73 was the big event. And then, in ’73, we started working with the Black Panter Party here on the conference at U of I, conference on police brutality and establishing community control. Fannie Lou Hamer came and spoke and a few other people. So, that’s all I did for the next six months (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) yeah. And then, in January of ’74, we started working on their campaign. And the first thing I did was the -- I worked with [Angie Lynn?] on the press stuff and then I did all your literature. JJ: Angie Lynn from the Young Lords? HS: Yes. So, in January -- and I have these original -- as well as -- I have the original -- in some cases, layouts -- but the layouts, I think, are mostly (inaudible). I have the [01:04:00] original press release that we did, which of course was done on a typewriter. Remember there was -- someone was being evicted on Wilton Street and that was the first thing we did. Anyway, I think that’s what it was. But I actually have it in my box over there. It’s one of the things I want to give you. And almost immediately, shortly thereafter, you had the announcement that you were running. And I almost immediately then for the next year spent 22 hours a day doing literature, either following you around to take pictures, calling the press, working (inaudible) on the media, or putting together your literature, which 37 �is how I learned how to do typesetting and everything. I mean, I used to -- it was how I learned to do a print shop, which we later started, because I’d get the copy from Slim or you or through [01:05:00] Slim from you or whatever. I would then copy fit it to figure out -- no, I would then go by -- I’d learn what it was that we were trying to do. Then I’d go to the paper place and see what ends they had and how much paper I could get for the -- based on how many I needed that would be appropriate to fit that. And usually they were odd, shaped things that they cut oddly. So, I’d get these weird, shaped pieces of paper that would be appropriate for whatever the purpose was. And then, I would copy fit to that size. (Laughs) And then, I would go to the typesetter, who would then type out -- I don’t know how they did it. It was like they typed in one line at a time. But then, you’d get the copy back and you’d have to fit it, and then, you’d have to figure out the mistakes and go back and either fixed or can they give you lines. So, I had to fit everything in. And anyway, this literally took me [01:06:00] -- and then, I would take it to someone else to have a negative shot and then to somebody else to have the plate made and then someone else to have it printed and then someone else to have it cut or bound. And so, in the -- I mean, literally. And most of the time I was asking people to do it for nothing. One of the things that I found here is your campaign disclosure statements that we submitted. And we didn’t spend any money. And that was me. Really didn’t. I got people to do stuff. I mean, in those days you didn’t have to report the stuff you got for nothing, the (break in audio) oh my gosh. I was just like -- everybody was just -- that’s what I did. But the side effect of that was I learned every aspect of doing printing, which is how 38 �we ended up starting a printing company. And that led us to be able to do fliers later. JJ: You said you did some work with Angie Lynn? HS: Yeah, we did the media stuff. JJ: A lot of work or -- HS: Media stuff, yeah. JJ: So, what do you -- HS: We spent a lot of time that year -- JJ: -- remember about Angie? HS: Oh, Angie was great. Well, she was just very smart. She got along -- she was really good with people. And she [01:07:00] could get the media folks to do almost anything. She got them out there. And we -- it was pretty remarkable actually what we did that year, what you did that year, because -- the whole campaign, because you had a significant showing. And I think -- I looked at the figures -- we spent under 10 grand. I mean, that’s just ridiculous. I don’t even think you spent that much. We just did -- it was just a lot of people just working their butts off and really talking to people. It was pretty remarkable actually, the whole thing.= JJ: And during this time, you were still working with the Panthers (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: Well, this was the -- we were the intercommunal survival committee, which we’ve sort of jumped ahead to -- JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). 39 �HS: -- the ’70 -- okay. So, when I came to Chicago -- JJ: Just trying to (inaudible) connection. Just trying to -- HS: I know. JJ: -- show that there was a connection. HS: When I came to Chicago in ’72, I came to work with what had been -- [01:08:00] people who had that people’s -- what was that? I just lost the name. Information center -- it was the People’s Information Center. And that was Slim and Kathy, Roy O’Dell. We then -- JJ: Because that started in Lincoln Park. HS: Yes. JJ: The People’s Information Center. HS: That’s right. And during the course of time, short time or even maybe at that time, it became (inaudible) they established a relationship with the Black Panther Party to become an Intercommunal Survival Committee, otherwise known as ISC. And that’s pretty much what we were until -- pretty much what we were for a long time. We started to create community institutions in the ’70s. So, there was the People’s Community Service Center and the [01:09:00] Uptown People’s Community Learning Center and the Uptown People’s Law Center and the Chicago Area Black Lung Association and then ultimately the Heart of Uptown Coalition which was a really huge mass organization. But these were all organizations that did very specific concrete things, that dealt with people’s survival every day. But the people who put the time into doing it were people who were members of the Intercommunal Survival Committee. That’s sort of the 40 �tie for all this. And we had a relationship with the Black Panther Party, which -we sold their papers. But we also did things. Our goal was always to create an intercommunal society, to create the opportunity for this to be really basically a place where everybody could realize their fullest potential. And to do that, we had to deal with these issues that we have in our real world. JJ: So, an intercommunal survival society said [01:10:00] everybody was able to meet their potential? HS: In my view. (Laughs) JJ: But I mean, this is what -- this was the goal. HS: Well, yeah. The template for the Black Panther Party, I think, laid it all out pretty well and I think, from my perspective, reflected for us as well the -- what was true there would be true for everyone. JJ: Now, who would you be working with? Because at that time there was no Panther folks after Fred Hampton. HS: No, there was. JJ: There was? HS: Bobby Rush became the chairman of the Black Panther Party in Illinois. JJ: After Fred? HS: Yeah, yeah. And was until -- I mean, the party had a life on and off. Bobby got into politics in ’73, I think, or so. But he was in and out. I know he ran for -- JJ: So, he ran for office in -- HS: -- something in ’73. JJ: -- what? In ’73? 41 �HS: The first time he ran for state rep he didn’t win. [01:11:00] JJ: Oh, so, when I was -- HS: It was ’73. JJ: -- running he was also running? HS: Well, that was ’75. So, by then, he -- I mean, I remember we had -- he was still in the party. I remember -- JJ: So, he was running before that. HS: I remember Tom Lindsay who used to do a lot of layout with me, did a mock front page of one of the major city papers, I think one that doesn’t exist anymore, maybe Sun-Times -- I don’t know -- of headlines of Bobby Rush winning for mayor in 1975. So, this was in ’72 or ’73. We were just playing around one day. It was interesting. Something historic, actually when you think about it. I might not have been Bobby. But we never expected a Black man in those days though, right? So, the party really pretty much existed in Chicago, although not in any way, shape, or form in the same level because the health center. I don’t know when the health center closed. [01:12:00] When -- I never finished telling you the most important thing. So, we’re back to ’69. So, it’s Thanksgiving of 1969, and Mark and I are going east to visit our families, his father in New Jersey and my parents in Long Island. And I remember he had a huge fight (laughs) so we ended up disappearing and going our own ways and then coming back on the -came back on the same plane. We were flying back to Milwaukee because everybody was reevaluating -- no, actually, this is what happened. Everybody came to Milwaukee in October for -- I mean, in November -- sometime in 42 �November, for a conference. We were -- the people that were doing this external work who had left Madison and were in one of these three communities and trying to figure out what to do or wanted to go to one of them. So, we had a meeting. And [01:13:00] it was a conference. And it was -- we just -- it was obnoxious. So, we said, “We’re leaving, and we’re going home for Thanksgiving. We’ll be back.” (Laughs) We get back on the evening of December 3rd. And we’ve had this huge blow out. We’re not talking to each other. We go to sleep. We're woken up a six o’clock in the morning. Someone tells us Fred Hampton’s been killed. So, Steve is there, Steve Gold. I think that’s when Steve came. Steve wasn’t in Racine until then. He was there as part of the people that come to the conference. So, Mark and I look at each other and we say, “Well, we have to go back.” Suzie and Jody have already said they’re not going to return. And we said, “Now, we have to work together. We don’t care. We’re not going to live together. We don’t like each other. We don’t care. We’re going to go back. And who wants to come with us?” And Steve said he didn’t. And we’re going to go. We’re going to work under Black leadership. And we’re going to be serious about what we do [01:14:00] because we can’t just walk away from this. And so, we went back to Racine. We were like (inaudible) we hook up with this guy who turns out to be an FBI provocateur, which we don’t find out for six months, which is why then our relationship directly -- because we were going to do that on our own. After that, we hook up more directly with people in Milwaukee and people in Rockford. But that’s how we made those connections because we realize we’d really blown it. And we went to -- we knew the people in Milwaukee. But 43 �we went to Slim and asked him -- when we figured out what was going on, which was at least five or six months later. And he put us in touch with the Rockford folks. So, that’s how he hooked up with them, with all those people. JJ: With the Rockford Panthers? HS: And with Milwaukee. Oh, Milwaukee, we did on our own because we met them during that time. We went to whatever memorials and met people there. JJ: So, that was in ’69 you were with the Rockford Panthers? HS: Yeah, yeah. And then, we went to -- well, after Fred was killed. JJ: And Rockford was a branch of Chicago (inaudible)? HS: Rockford was a branch [01:15:00] of -- JJ: Of (inaudible). HS: Yeah, yeah. And Harold Bell, who was the head of the Rockford chapter, was in the -- and Mark Clock was from the Rockford chapter. JJ: (inaudible) HS: And he and Harold Bell were in the apartment when Fred was killed as was Doc Satchel. And Doc Satchel was -- Ron “Doc” Satchel. Ron was his name. Who was the member of the -- very young member of the Black Panther Party who had ran the free clinic that they had on the west side. And it was a pretty extraordinary place. And they recruited all these doctors and were doing great work. And Doc was his nickname, obviously. Doc was also in that apartment and was one of the people that received quite -- he was shot up pretty badly, never -- I don’t think -- [01:16:00] completely healed. I mean, he was really messed up physically, and obviously that affects your life. I remember -- I got 44 �there because I was trying to remember when the clinic shut down after Fred was killed. And I think it survived for a while. So, he was killed, but the programs continued on some level over a period of time. JJ: Okay, so, now you’re -- we have the (inaudible) campaign (inaudible). HS: Before we get -- maybe it was afterwards. I’m sorry. That was later. JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: So, we did the (inaudible) campaign, your campaign. The next year I actually spent -- ’75 -- what did we do in ’75? We stayed in uptown. I’m trying to think of what -- I don’t know. So, the ’70s are [01:17:00] -- there’s the ’70s -- JJ: I went to jail during that time. HS: What’s going on in the ’70s? JJ: There was some negative thing where -- that was going on during that time. So, how did you respond to that? How did the group respond to that? You had done all this work. And all of the sudden -- HS: You mean how did we respond to -- explain to other people or among ourselves? JJ: Among yourselves and then other people. But among yourselves. HS: Well, it is what it is. (Laughter) You know. We are who we are. Shit happens. And it doesn’t change the overall dynamic, which is what everything was about. So, there’s pressures on people that cause different reactions. It’s just part of life. But it’s not about any one of us individually. It’s about what [01:18:00] needs to be done. So, the issue was what needed to be done. And that didn’t change. I mean, when you ran for alderman Lake View -- no, when I first came here which was two years before you ran for alderman, Lake View was 75 percent Puerto 45 �Rican. By the time I ran and won in 1987, Lake View was maybe 15 percent Puerto Rican, maybe. That is a difference of 14 years, 15 -- what, ’73 to ’87, 14 years. That’s huge. And going back to Lincoln Park for a minute, similarly Lincoln Park changed similarly as dramatically, even more so over a longer period of time, a little longer period of time. The interesting thing [01:19:00] and I think what always struck me about Lincoln Park was that even in the ’80s -- and Lincoln Park stuff happened really late ’60s, early ’70s -- in the ’80s, there were people still hanging out there. So, just because people had moved out doesn’t mean they move on. And that’s what I learned from Lincoln Park, and it was repeated in Lake View. And it’s always -- and to a certain extent, repeated in uptown. The difference is that there’s -- because of AIDS and because of the imprisonments -- I mean, the change in drug laws and because of (inaudible) there’s fewer people to hang around. But it hasn’t changed the fact that there’s people hanging around. It’s just not the same people. So, the dynamic is -- and it’s interesting because I think it leads to some of the -- this is actually really interesting. I think -- [01:20:00] and this is anecdotal obviously. But I remember going back and seeing people in Lincoln Park that I knew from Lincoln Park. I remember going back to Lake View and seeing people that I knew from Lake View. Here, people say, “Oh, there are all these people hanging around,” that they don’t like, and they blame me for it because I found them places to stay or whatever. And they say that’s because -- but they’re not necessarily from here. The people who hang around here, the people who come -- and they weren’t necessarily doing anything. They might have been doing some drugs and stuff, 46 �but I don’t think so necessarily. That might have been a side thing, but that wasn’t the main reason they were there. Today what you find people hanging out on the corners is because they’re here to do business and they’ve come from other communities to do the business. So, it’s a totally different dynamic that creates a much higher level of violence. It’s interesting. Now, they connect and know people here and meet them, so it’s not altogether quite as simple as I said. But it’s sort of interesting. It’s a whole other area of study people could do about gentrification. (Laughs) But [01:21:00] the real point is that when you do gentrification, the thing that you go at the heart of -- and this has been true any -it’s even true when they built Robert Taylor and tore down a neighborhood. What was the -- they built something new. What was the neighborhood they tore down? It was a stable Black working class community of people who owned their homes. And they created a future that everybody thought was going to be this great future, new housing. And it was built so poorly and it was organized and designed so poorly and then managed so poorly that it was made -- it became an impossible place for people to live. That was going in one direction. But it’s always -- if you want to do what you want to do with land, it’s always about destabilizing the people who are there. And that’s an acceptable -- sometimes it’s almost Machiavellian. I think it was more Machiavellian when Robert Taylor -because it sounds to me like it was intentional or more intentional or so clearly [01:22:00] out of a total blind spot of racism. The rest of the gentrification comes out of more greed where it’s acceptable that you can profit from the bad acts of someone else that does act to undermine and destroy people’s lives and maybe 47 �equally as Machiavellian but from a greed point of view as opposed from a racially motivated point of view. But it ends up always taking advantage of race because that takes advantage of people who are a disadvantage. And whether you’re poor white or you’re Black or you’re Latino, you’re still reeling from the dynamic of race. JJ: Now you mentioned poor white, poor Black, poor Latino. So, we’re looking at these campaigns during that time and the type of people that were involved in the campaigns. I know there were students and that. [01:23:00] But I mean, the -for example, the Young Lords and -- how did you see the type of people? Were they students? How did you see them? HS: I’m not -- JJ: In other words, what type of -- how did you see the activism? How was -- you’re coming from -- HS: You know, I have to say that we were so focused on what we were doing. We were intentional about not getting engaged in the politics of the organizations, of anyone. And we stayed away from the left too. People sort of thought we were standoffish. But we worked throughout the ’70s and really up until the time -- the early ’80s. Our focus was really just doing the work. It was quantitative change leads to qualitative change. Every day you talk to people. [01:24:00] Every day you educate people. Every day you provide services. Every day you learn what is that is needed, the people need, societally speaking, that people really need. What needs are in their lives? Do they have enough food? Do they have enough clothing? Do they have the medical treatment that they need in order to 48 �be able to grow? Are they receiving a proper education? Do they have access to education? Do they have jobs and access to them? Are they being prepared to be able to actually be full human beings? We realize who they can be. And every day we were doing something that related to that or that we interpreted to do that. And we all did different things. And sometimes someone else told us what to do and sometimes we told someone else what to do. And sometimes we collectively figured -- always we had some sort of a collective discussion about where we were going or what we needed to do. And almost every day, at least for me, had to remind myself [01:25:00] what the context was, what the reason was. So, it was a constant reevaluation of what we were doing and why we were doing it. But we worked so hard. I don’t think (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). JJ: The Young Lords -- because you had an -- HS: Well, I’m talking -- JJ: -- independent (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Well, what I just said related really to the ISC but also pretty much to anyone that I knew in the Young Lords at the time, pretty much anyone I knew in the Black Panther Party at that time. I mean, where people were committed, that’s what they did. And so, that was always gravitated to. If you were serious, then I would sit and do stuff with you I would do it for -- and this is true to this day, I suppose. But if you’re serious -- if you’ve got a problem that you’re trying to solve and you’re serious about it and it’s something that’s really going to be a positive, not a negative, in terms of humanity or humankind, whatever, then I’m there. If I can 49 �help, I’m there. [01:26:00] You got me. You got me until I can’t help you anymore. JJ: And that was going on with all the groups (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: I think that’s -- I mean, that was my perspective. JJ: That was year. That was year. HS: If George was sitting here, George Atkins, he would say, “Yeah, right, Helen,” (laughter) or, “Maybe you or not all of us or sometimes,” and put a grain of reality to it. But that was always my -- I’m sort of crazy and passionate and don’t know when to stop. (Laughs) JJ: And so, now, we go -- the campaign is over. We did very well. We got about 38 percent, 39 percent of the vote. And now, what’s the plan? But we lost. I mean, we lost -- HS: The election. JJ: -- the election, but not the -- HS: Yes, so, we launched the Heart of Uptown Coalition. We start doing country music Sundays and we’re full-fledged in uptown now. We start doing country music Sundays at the Hull-House. JJ: Because there’s no Latino (inaudible). HS: They still are there, but people are moving. Some people coming uptown. [01:27:00] This is process, so it doesn’t happen overnight. And we’re in uptown and we realize and we’re very clear that in uptown at that point, there are the largest concentration of Native Americans outside of a reservation, an Indian reservation in the U.S., in the country, largest concentration of poor white people 50 �in the country, the only census track in the city where you can actually live and be an integrated couple, some of which you can live more easily than others, one of the few integrated census tracks in the city, the place where [01:28:00] a significant number of Japanese families came to after their internment from the camps in California during the war. And now, they were all the aging population. They were all seniors. But they had some real institutions and cultures here. And we learned that just by canvassing. It was like everybody lived together. But clearly, uptown had been a port of entry. And because there had been some -- the location where they had built during the ’60s -- so, it was still relatively new -- late ’60s and early ’70s -- the -- some of the (break in audio) HUD buildings, which were buildings that were built with low interest rates. That was -- during that period of time, the interest rates were double digit. And so, these were very - two and three percent, I think. And so, they were building -- [01:29:00] they built 10,000 of them in the city. And almost a third of those were built in uptown in Lake View. So, we had -- and who lived in them were people -- they each had their own character. But the ones in Lake View had -- but they were really -- I mean, one building had a lot of people who worked for the state of Illinois and were young professionals, largely African American, but not entirely. There was a building that had a lot of -- there were buildings that had Africans and Asians and Latin Americans. Everybody lived in these buildings. Some of them had more Section 8, some had less. Some had 100 percent, some had 20 percent. Some had in between. All of them had below market rents which meant that they could -- it was the only rent control that existed in the city. They couldn’t raise the rents 51 �without approval of the federal government because in return, they’d given the developers very low interest rates. A few of the developers ended up -- turned out to have been decent managers. Most of them were terrible. [01:30:00] And ultimately, fast forward 20 years later, nationally a significant number of those units that were built with these fines -- this program, actually ended up going back into the -- were foreclosed on by HUD and ended up back into their inventory. But in uptown, in Lake View, it was 50/50 in terms of good and bad management. But there was a huge diversity of people that lived in these buildings as well, which added to the diverse nature of the community. But we started to -- but there were real struggles. The tenants wanted to have a say, and they had a legal right to have a say. So, there were issues everywhere. We were having, in uptown, during that time -- there was -JJ: So, you were looking at neighborhood diversity as a good thing? HS: Yeah, yeah, it was an objective reality too. So, this is ’75, and we have [01:31:00] -- so, that’s sort of a description, a little bit, of the community. Now, there was -- there had been prior -- six years or seven years prior to that, the city had decided to build a college in uptown, which was taken as a very cynical gesture by many people because they initially said where they wanted to put the college would have displaced about 5,000 people. So, it was like, “Okay, so, you want to build a college for people who live in the community. But to build the college, you want to move all the people out of the community. How does that add up?” (Laughter) So, there was a huge deal about that. This was before I came to Chicago. But there were people -- I think the Young Lords might have 52 �been involved a little bit. But that was when the Young Patriots were up here and [01:32:00] the original Rainbow Coalition. At any rate, there was a compromise, which -JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible) HS: Yeah, that’s exactly right. And so, there was a compromise that wasn’t a very good one. JJ: But Patriots were (inaudible). HS: That’s right. And the compromise was sort of the liberals negotiated a compromise. The reason I said it wasn’t very good was because they didn’t displace 5,000 but they did ultimately displace about 3,600. But the compromise was to build one building initially, to initially build one building and displace 1,200 people. The problem is that the college clearly had an intention of continuing to take land and to build more and more. And so, while they broke ground in ’74 or ’75 on the college, they were still moving on the rest of the housing [01:33:00] and had already destabilized -- you saw it. I mean, I saw all this happening. When I got here, where the main building of the college was completely vacant. But across the street was not on other side. So, there was Sunnyside and there was Racine. And there were people living and flourishing everywhere. And every day there was a fire or somebody no longer had their heat because all of the pipes had been taken out of the building or whatever or there was a new contract buyer in the building or whatever. But one of those things was happening to everyone in the buildings almost every day. And until we got to the point where they had -- people started to have to find ways to resist. And 53 �ultimately, because of the resistance that people had to the college expanding, they had to -- they did get a few of the buildings on Sunnyside, but they stopped. We really finally stopped them when they got to [01:34:00] like one layer of buildings in. And so, if you look at a map today versus a map 30 years ago, what you see is that Sunnyside jogs a little bit because we stopped them. And so, Sunnyside just was remade a little bit farther south. But they did take the other side of Racine. JJ: How were you able to stop them? HS: Well, it was lots of demonstrations. We went down to the college board all the time. In fact, I think that the first speech I ever gave when I was -- I was really shy. I can’t even believe you remember anything from those days. I mean, I was terrified to speak or say anything to anybody except if I was on a mission and I could do it and if it was one on one. But the first time I had to speak in public was at one of their meetings. The city college board was meeting at Truman College. And oh my gosh. Somebody -- I think it was Slim. And somebody stood behind me and literally pushed me to the podium because I was like in shock. [01:35:00] Anyway, stage fright. But we did all of that. But that was later. Continued to always -- then we wanted -- when they finally built it, we wanted them to actually educate somebody. JJ: Because there were several -- HS: But there were a number of public projects that were designed to be built where people lived allegedly for them. So, we had built in uptown, and the same thing happened where building by building by building was speculated on by people 54 �who made money off of the market in different ways, either by doing contract buys over and over and over again -- definitely milking the building. JJ: It was (inaudible). HS: You buy -- you sell your building to somebody else on a contract. You let them collect the -- you still have the insurance on it. You let them collect -- they collect the rents, and they have to pay you your money every month. So, you’re getting money every month. They get whatever they get -- what’s different from that. It’s probably not very much. And that goes on. But that’s how you make sure you get your money. [01:36:00] But it’s not legally your responsibility anymore. But then, when the building finally burns, which it inevitably does, either at your hand or someone else’s, you get the insurance money. And it was a scam that went on until the late ’70s, early ’80s when we -- JJ: What was the scam? I mean -- HS: Oh, there was a ton of people involved in it. And we tried to get 20/20 involved a few times. They finally did get involved. They just blew it. I mean -- what’s his name? Geraldo Rivera. JJ: He did that arson (inaudible). HS: Yeah, but we originally tried to get him out of here a year earlier. He would have saved some lives. And we set him up in an apartment and everything and said, “This is what’s going on. We know. We canvas every single day. We’ve been putting (inaudible) patrols. We know what’s going on. We know they’re going to hit this building. And we’re going to try and stop it. But we’re out there. We don’t think we can stop it. But we can protect people. But we’re there. But you need 55 �to tell the story so we don’t have to keep doing it.” [01:37:00] He said, “Well, I have to tell the bomb and arson squad.” I said, “Well then,” we said, “If you tell the bomb” -- Mark said, “If you tell the bomb and arson squad, then they’re going to be told. They’re clearly in collusion.” They said, “No, no, we have to do it, blah, blah, blah.” So, they did. So, of course, it didn’t happen. JJ: So, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) collusion with the city (inaudible)? HS: Well, this was -- well, somebody in -- I mean, I wouldn’t say the city. I would say city policy was to encourage building -- city policy created the conditions for opportunists to successfully operate. That’s what I think. JJ: But it was individuals that were doing (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Took advantage of it. Individual opportunists. But because of the city’s policy. JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Yeah, yeah. No, exactly. But if you’re really looking at solving the problem, from my point of view later on as an alderman, that’s exactly right. And it was really an interesting conversation. [01:38:00] Then you’ve got to look at it from the point of view of the material impact. If you’re looking at it saying, “This stuff is crazy. This is impossible. We’ve got to shake it up.” You’re going to polarize and do whatever you have to do that. For me, the line comes when you do that from the perspective of having a real -- making a policy change that impacts people’s lives for real versus when you do that for egotistical reasons. And as the alderman, it was so clear to me when people were doing one versus the other. And that’s what drove me nuts. And then, when people were doing -- honest people were doing their organizing -- we had the situation in my last term that really -- 56 �JJ: How many terms did you have? HS: Six. JJ: Six terms (inaudible)? HS: Yes. In my last term, there was an organizing effort to [01:39:00] -- around housing, which was a great organizing effort. And the stated goal was to create - this was not the stated goal. In my view, any goal that had to do with housing would create additional resources for affordable housings. That had to be -- that was the reason you do anything. So, the coalition of folks dealing with this came in and said, “We are going to demand that there be a requirement in the city that the city must spend 20 percent of all its resources it gets from TIF funds on affordable housing.” On the face of that, that sounds great, except that’s not how TIF works. And it was impossible, and they could never meet it because most of the TIFs -- not most, but a significant number of the TIFs don’t even have housing included in their purpose. So, you can’t spend money on housing in those TIFs. [01:40:00] And so, you have to create a way -- JJ: But they play it in the media is -- HS: Yes. JJ: -- that it’s geared towards (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Oh, no one understands it. It’s like so -- and this is in the context of people attacking -- like up here it was in the same time I was doing [Wilson Yard?]. And the folks up here that were opposed to TIFs were opposed to TIFs because they didn’t want it to include affordable housing. So, you have this bizarre dynamic. And they wanted it to be taken down state and have them change the law, not 57 �the way the advocates wanted, but the opposite. But everybody, I thought -- it seemed to me anyway -- was misreading everyone else. So, I said, “Look, let me” -- first of all, they did a study on the TIFs. So, I said, “Let me look at your TIF stuff.” I mean, I have some credibility here because this has been my thing. So, I looked at it, and I got about half way through. And I’m telling Cha-cha, the stuff that I looked at, everybody had access to. It was online. I did it all online. But you had to know how to have access to it. So, I said, “Look.” But it was on the city’s website. [01:41:00] So, I said, “Anyone can do this, and I’ve done half of for you.” I spent 12 hours straight just doing this. I dropped everything else because I want -- but I ran out of time. We had a schedule plan for a meeting. I said, “We’re halfway done. This is what I’ve come up with. If you guys give me some help or do it, we can get the rest of it done. I just can’t do the rest of it because I have a few other things I have to do.” I mean, I was the alderman, right? And they said, “No, we’ve already done our study. We don’t want to redo it. We don’t care. The horse is already out of the barn, and we’re having a rally next week. So, we’re not going to change anything.” And I’m like, “But what you’re talking about doesn’t fit with reality. At least let’s get something that we can really negotiate around material impact with them.” We had a disconnect there somewhere along the decided that everything I was saying I was doing to protect the administration because I had made a deal to get Wilson Yard done. And it was not true. JJ: This is what they were saying? 58 �HS: Yeah. Now, I understand where they felt that way. And it was true that [01:42:00] I was definitely working with the administration to get Wilson Yard done. I think that we influenced each other. And you could argue who had more influence over the other, but I know I had huge influence on this city and on the past administration on affordable housing. But what I really felt was critical of this moment of time was that there were policies that the city had about how you could use TIF money where it could be spent on affordable housing that needed to be changed. And by changing that, you could actually do a lot more with it, because we were limiting what we were allowing people to do with that money, one, and two, there were various areas outside of the TIFs that required change in city policy that would also create a lot more resources for affordable housing. And I was trying to get them on that page to do it. And because of my relationship with the administration, I was able to get everybody in the same room. And we got to an -- [01:43:00] this was over three years -- got to an agreement that had a real material impact, back to the material impact notion. But there were people in the room that had gotten so far out on what this 20 percent requirement that they felt -- I think they felt like it was their personal credibility that was at stake. And my point was that is never going to be agreed to because you’re basically asking them to set the city up -- the city to set itself up to be sued and then we’re going to send money to defend the suit that we should be spending on affordable housing. So, why is that even in your interest to do that? We shouldn’t even be going there. That’s the give because the take is so much bigger. And here's the take. And I listed about 10 things that really 59 �would have materially increased the resources we had for affordable housing. And they wouldn’t go for it. So, six months [01:44:00] later, after the election, the primary election and everyone is shocked at Rahm Emanuel won outright, then they take the original deal, which didn’t include any of improvements and I no longer get them to do it because they laughed at me and said, “Why do we have to do it? We don’t need to do it anymore.” And they voted for something that was a compromise that these guys agreed to. They got nothing and they declared it a victory. And it’s like okay, that’s not good organizing. You did this extraordinary -- I mean, that’s great. You did an incredible job of organizing. You brought all these people together. You brought the city to the table. And instead of taking something that had a material impact on a symbolic thing, you gave it up and you came away with no power. JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: It’s a coalition of people all over the city. And they were (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) well, the coalition of groups. It was a coalition of organizations. JJ: Are they still doing that? [01:45:00] HS: Well, the core group is still doing what it does every day because it is sincere on what it does every day, I think, and it deals with people who are homeless. But it does a lot of stuff that does have a material impact incrementally with people’s lives. But ultimately, you’ve got to really create the bricks and mortar. And if you don’t create the bricks and mortar, we’re not going to have the choices. If you don’t have the housing, you’re not going to be able to put people into the housing. 60 �JJ: And your way of -- and you see the (inaudible) what way? I mean, how do you see that? HS: Well, what I’m saying is that they had this extraordinary campaign. They gave us an opportunity -- organizing campaign (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) they gave us the opportunity to actually create the issue that forced some creative thinking and some give and some change in the way stuff was being done that would have created more dollars for bricks and mortar and at a moment in time that it would have been really important because it would have been before a change of administration that would have [01:46:00] meant that the new administration came in looking at the status quo, which would have been a different status quo and moving from that so that you would have only had to have talked to them about maintaining that status quo or improving it. But instead, you’re back here. You’ve gone two steps back instead of two steps forward. Am I clear? No. (Laughter) Okay, so look -- JJ: So, do you think they were going back because they already had a position of strength (inaudible)? HS: Well, no. I think they had a position of strength that could have been used to have a material impact on the issue that they were raising. And instead, they shot for the -- they went for the symbolism instead of the material impact. JJ: Okay. That’s (inaudible). And you were trying to get some kind of -- HS: Yeah, and ironically in this instance -- JJ: -- victory. You were trying to get a (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). 61 �HS: Yeah. And in this instance, the symbolism ended up being interpreted by the mass media as just being anti-TIF. Now, we could argue with TIFs until we’re blue in the face. But the objective reality is that for the last [01:47:00] 15 years at least -- well, last 24 years, since Harold Washington was first elected -- since Reagan was elected actually -- federal dollars in housing, in HUD, have been diminishing either for community development (inaudible) grant funds or for housing. They’ve been diminishing. Direct funds for that have been diminishing over that period of time incrementally. Andin the last 15 years the primary area of growth for resources in the city that’s been available for any kind of affordable housing on any level, from 80 percent of median income all the way down to zero percent of median income, has been through TIF dollars. Fact. And so, to attack TIF dollars without figuring out how to make that continue to be the case or how to improve that is [01:48:00] cutting off your nose to spite your face, I think. JJ: But you were saying though that the TIF dollars -- they were saying one thing, but they really were not -- it wasn’t providing affordable housing. HS: No. JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible) what I’m saying. HS: Well -- JJ: So, when -- HS: No, no, no. What I’m saying is that TIF was -- JJ: I mean, I don’t want to attack any money (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: No, no, no. Here’s what I’m trying to say though. TIF became the primary tool that the Daley administration had for economic development. And that economic 62 �development subject includes among that affordable housing. The city has some other resources and gifts for affordable housing, primarily access to tax credits, which don’t actually come through HUD, I don’t think. Anyway, tax credits come through the state and the city gets some and the state gets some. And they allow a developer to sell [01:49:00] -- to syndicate the tax credits they have to people who are willing to pay for them up front so they can get their taxes off the IRS later. And so, that money can be used for development. And there are still some -- what they call home dollars, which comes from HUD, which is free cash, which can be used for things under construction of low income housing, and vouchers now -- not Section 8, but not really -- they’re not on -- those really are what CHA has. And although there are some available through CHA for the general market -- but nothing like in the ’70s or ’80s. And there’s still some CDBG, community development, block grant funds, much less than there used to be. And only a small amount of that gets spent on housing. So, we’re much more restricted. There are some loan programs and other things. But it’s much more restricted than it used to be. [01:50:00] So, if there is a funding mechanism that the city has created that is under attack but which also is a funding mechanism that your area of interested, i.e. in this case housing, has been able to benefit from, then I think that you should be careful about how you polarize the situation. And we’ve experienced in the last -- well, we always have experienced a backlash to people -- there’s always been the “not in my backyard” dynamic in Chicago. It's why when Dorothy Gautreaux filed her lawsuit and there was a consent decree in 1968 that said the city could not build a single unit of a public 63 �housing without building a scattered site unit of public housing, that all public housing (break in audio) because nobody would let them build a scattered site housing in their [01:51:00] community. And the scattered site housing couldn’t be built in the Black community, it had to be built into integrated census tracks, of which there are very in the city, or non-Black -- mostly Black, I guess Latinos in there too but it’s -- I don’t know. That got litigated separately. But you couldn’t have more than -- the minority, I think, was both Black and Latino -- more than 40 percent of living in a census track be in that minority -- be a minority. So, that was a response was not in your backyard. So, everything stopped. So, you have dynamic that’s ongoing of not in your backyard. A lot of the people that -when the newspapers or whoever did an expose on the TIFs and said, “Look at all this money that’s sitting there. No one’s using it. It should go back to taxpayers.” The teachers, who had a legitimate issue, [01:52:00] and the housing advocates who had a legitimate issues, i.e., we want education, we want money on housing, said, “Oh, then let’s take all of that and give it to us, and then we can do it.” Only the money -- it was more complicated than that. A, most of the money that the newspapers said was there wasn’t really there because it was committed or hadn’t been collected yet. B, the money that was there was there and each was in an individual district. And you can only spend TIF money in the district or in an adjacent one by the district. C, a lot of that money was already committed to education and the board of ed because they were building new schools. So, it’s a more complicated conversation. The only reason -- the only people that benefit from making it all seem like one thing are people who just 64 �want to get rid of all the stuff that it does. And everybody can jump on a bandwagon and say, “We don’t like this, that, or the other.” But sometimes when you do that, you’re actually benefiting someone who doesn’t like what you like. They might be in that same coalition. [01:53:00] You just don’t know each other. Everybody’s just out there. It’s, I think, part of the dynamic of our day where there’s so much information. It’s too much to get through. You don’t really get it. And it’s part of what’s happening all over the world. And then, things get sorted out. JJ: I see what you’re saying. I see your point of it. What would you -- looking at it -trying to look at your side, which I -- I’m in that kind of a situation too because -you have Latinos that were displaced, for example, and not only Latinos, but poor whites and African Americans from the lakefront and the downtown area. How do we correct it? There’s clear discrimination there. How does that -- but you can’t pinpoint it because of the various TIF and all these other programs that the city council has come up with. So, I mean, how can [01:54:00] we correct that there’s clear discrimination but legal discrimination. What would be your -- since you -- because I know that you’ve been able to do that in uptown. You’ve been able to help poor people stay in uptown. HS: It’s not a simple question. And the core -- JJ: And this is off the top (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: No, I understand. JJ: I’m just trying to get your expertise in that. 65 �HS: I’ve had this conversation a lot with different people, especially in reviewing what we’ve done, the whole story in uptown. And I have to tell you -- this has come up. No one would -- there isn’t an alderman who would ever want -- they might say they’d like to be like me. I’ve heard people say that. There’s no one who ever wants to do what I did. I worked too hard. I didn’t even want to do what I did. [01:55:00] I couldn’t do it anymore. I mean, I couldn’t do it anymore because conditions changed also. But I’ve been going back and looking at the stuff and all the things that we did, especially in my first three or four terms and -I mean, then my next -- last two terms were really different because they were about making sure that stuff actually happened, (laughs) that the results of things happened. And you only have so much control over the world around you. But I had a core commitment when I became alderman. And I think I stuck to that. That core commitment was that at least -- I was going to do the best that I could do to ensure that resources that were available in the city and in the ward for people as a result of there being people with fewer resources were going to spent to the benefit of [01:56:00] people with fewer resources so that if you had money that was coming into a community for a college, you would make sure that the people who needed to go to that college when the money came in were still going to be there when the college was built or for a health center or for a school, all of which were our story up here. And my first year as alderman, I went to -- I started going to the U.S. League of Cities conferences. That is an organization of municipalities all over the country. They are mostly small, but there are also some larger ones. And we all go to it. So, I would go to those. 66 �And they had these workshops for days. So, I’d always go to the development workshops, and I’d always ask the same question because there would always be presenters who would tell you their success stories. So, I was always asking, “Okay, so you did that. Were the same people there [01:57:00] at the end of the development who were there at the beginning of the development? Did they get a chance to benefit from it?” And usually the answer was complete and total silence. You could hear a pin drop in the room. I suppose I asked the question too directly and they knew the answer -- but really, I never got an answer other than no -- sometimes people were honest -- or really mostly it was silence. And I realized that I was probably going to -- that this was like a -- raising the question was -- there were two things I could do that had value. One was raising the question, and the other was doing my best to protect in uptown and my ward, whatever the boundaries were -- mostly uptown, the existing affordable housing and grabbing every possible opportunity that I had to create additional housing. So, the next thing was [01:58:00] -- okay, so how do I make sure I’m able to do that and stay honest? So, I then -- it was my practice to be dealing with survival issues. So, people said always they look at their alderman for services. So, my next thing was -- and I started this actually when Harold was mayor. I’d been doing it since ’83, these workshops in the community about all the different city departments. So, I knew a lot about sewers, and I knew the condition of our sewers. They were in really bad shape. I got into sewers because I figured let’s go where no one else is looking. So, I went underground. So, I got really detailed. We built -- when Harold was here, I was able to take advantage of him, 67 �and I figured sewers are a big deal. I had him set up for me to meet with the city’s chief engineer. I had her teach me about sewers. And then, I proceeded to go about the business of finding out [01:59:00] what was the status of everything that we had and then getting that rebuilt. We had, when I got elected, two collapsed sewers. So, it wasn’t -- I mean, I had an opportunity -- I had to fix them, and they were big, so that was huge. So, I was sort of a step ahead of everybody. But then, over the course of the next three years after Harold died, I had to deal with the fact that I was in the minority. And I just did my work, and I never dealt with the commissioner except at budget time. So, I took the budget, which I considered the most important thing that the city did because -- that the aldermen did because that was the one thing we were elected to actually do, the one legislative responsibility we always had. And it was the one way you would know how the money was spent. And if you wanted to get stuff done, you had to know where the money was. So, I would study the budget every year, and I would study it by asking questions because they don’t really tell you unless you ask. And then, I learned how to ask questions. But I’d get really frustrated and pretty irritated when people didn’t give me answers, and I was still an alderman. So, over the course of time -- [02:00:00] I mean, it took me 20 years to get all my questions answered. But I did get them answered up until the last day I was there. And nobody wanted to not have their questions when I came there. And they also didn’t want to have any outstanding service requests because it became well known -- I mean, I would ask them that in front of everyone else. And there’s ears on the city council during budget. Everybody’s hearing it. And 68 �the one thing that Daley didn’t like was ever any bad stuff in the press. And oh my gosh. Everything I said was going to go to the press if it was negative. And I was not gratuitous with that. You really had to be doing something wrong. I mean, I didn’t just go off. I mean, I think if you do that, then you become a joke and no one pays attention to you. So, I was not -- I didn’t do that. JJ: It just (inaudible) you had to work with him. HS: No, I’m talking about the first 10 years. JJ: And I’m only saying that because we of course opposed the law (inaudible). HS: Yeah. [02:01:00] I’m talking about -- JJ: But symbolic, not (inaudible) personally, but symbolic. HS: Right, right, right. So, I am very critical of the administration, but I need to get stuff done. So, I am studying the budget, and I am asking questions, and I’m developing relationships with all of the secondary level of -- the people who actually do the work in the departments. They don’t make a lot of the policy, but they make enough of the policy that they get the work done. They can decide if they’re going here or going there. They’re the ones that are going to get them done if something doesn’t get done. So, they don’t me complaining about anything. They don’t really want my praise either. So, it’s great. But they really actually end up liking working with me because -- except if you’re in [02:02:00] CDAT, in which case I just have to intimidate people, unless you’re in one of the departments that just was too macho, and then, I’d find other ways to deal with it, but ultimately to get them to deal with my staff, most of whom often were women. So, that was -- so, we’d do a two-step on them. But we learned how to deal with 69 �all of that. But I really developed relationships. And I was pretty -- we were easy to work with. I mean, around budget time I might have gotten a little bit whatever, but if I had to deal with stuff with the commissioner. But we were -- I was very careful -JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: I never fronted off anybody. I just needed to get the work done. And that’s how I always did it. It was more instinctive than anything else. It wasn’t like I had a plan. I just knew I had to get the work done. I know how to get stuff done. I know that if you want -- that if I’m the person you’re talking to and I don’t have anything to say about getting it done, then I’m the wrong person you should be talking to. So, if I know that’s true for me, [02:03:00] then I can’t help you if I don’t get to make the policy. I’m just passing it on. So, if I’m talking to somebody and I’m not getting the answer I want, then my first question is, “Who makes this decision? Let me talk to the person who’s actually telling me what you have to tell me?” And I get to someone who can make a policy decision, and then, I would deal with that person. But that would mean that next person who I didn’t yell at who everyone else is yelling at but I was really nice to would then help me out the next time because why get -- you don’t kill the messenger. You don’t need to kill the messenger. You really don’t. Actually, if you don’t, then they can become your messenger too. So, we just worked our butts off. And I had a crew, and we worked. And my staff -- and we worked our butts off and really with the goal of, on a day to day basis, we were going to have a material impact. And then, I would go downtown and ask all these questions and force the issue. Now, 70 �Daley’s point of view, I think, [02:04:00] politically was that -- he took over in a very polarized situation. And he had initially around him this very tightknit group of people who were whatever they were -- I mean, I’m not going to get into that. But really, until they were gone, it was impossible to deal with them. I mean, Yules, Degnan -- Degnan was different. Yules and Degnan were different actually. Yules -- I have nothing good to say about him, so I won’t say anything. But he was -- I’m glad he was forced out of the city. Made a huge difference for everyone. Degnan was really interesting because in 1984 when Harold was mayor, there was a heatwave like we just had and there was a real -- and several people in a nursing home in the west side died. And he immediately -- his whole -- I think [02:05:00] Lonnie Edwards was the commissioner of health. Anyway, we immediately put together a plan to deal with heat that then was used every year after that. We had a few other heat things. And it was a really good plan and it worked. Never had been one before. In 1995, we had another heatwave. And the Daley administration -- it was ironic because it’s all very connected. On Friday had been 90 degrees, over 90 degrees for two days at that point or three days. It was Friday afternoon. So, I called at quarter to five because I wanted to leave a note on my office door. I called the Department of Human Services and said, “Where are your cooling centers,” just assuming they’d have them. They said, “Oh, we’re not opening any cooling centers this weekend.” And I went ballistic on them. I said, “People are going to die. You have to.” They said, “Well, whatever.” The next day at noon, I was at an event called by the Jane Addams Senior Caucus where -- in a church [02:06:00] on Belmont. There were 71 �500 people. The place was packed. And the mayor was there as well. He came to speak to them. And they demanded to know from him -- and I was there too as one of their alderman, and Bernie Hanson was there as alderman on the ward. They wanted to know -- they demanded and got from him at that meeting a commitment to build a senior building. And we ultimately built it. We had (inaudible) when we couldn’t a library there. And I saw him there, and I said, “You know, you really need cooling centers.” And as we left there, the news reports started coming out about all the people that were dying. And on Monday, I met with Degnan and Yules and Victor Reyes and George was with me. And I said, “It is not [02:07:00] in my nature to take advantage of people’s deaths. I’m not going to do it. But you guys have a heat plan that you won’t use because it was Harold Washington’s. And shame on you. And these are the elements.” I gave them 15 points of a heat plan. “And all 15 of these things need to be done by Friday or I will go to the press and I will talk about how you didn’t open up any of the cooling centers and how you did absolutely nothing until people had already died and yet you had the plan you could have used and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you do that, that’s it. I won’t make a big deal about it because the issue here is people are dying and we have to stop it. And I will work with you on this. And I will stay in the background. But if you don’t do it, I will blast you.” I saw Degnan on Friday morning. He said, “We did every” -- I’ve never seen the man smile before. He said, very solemn, “We’ve done everything on your list, everything.” [02:08:00] And then, he gave me a smile. “So, I suppose you won’t be going to the press.” And I said, “If you did everything, we’re cool.” 72 �JJ: (Laughs) (inaudible). HS: But I appreciated that because he took me seriously and he did it, maybe because he took me seriously. I guess it’s always good to be taken seriously. And I would have. I mean, I just -- but I would have been in tears because people were dying left and right. It didn’t make any sense. And it was so simple, the stuff they did. And I look now -- I mean, one of the things was that we made them go get those sprinkler caps and put them on the fire hydrants. And so, when they were talking this week about the heat wave last week and the heat wave and how dangerous that was, I’m like -- I debated whether I should call and say, “Dammit, just go get those things out of storage somewhere? They are really okay, and you can go out there with -- use your caps” -- well, we don’t even have caps anymore -- “Use -- you can do that.” [02:09:00] Because that is -heat’s a real thing. That was just one of my (inaudible) things. But the point, I think, about this notion of -- how do you do what you do and how do you get that done? So, I was really focused on housing. And during the ’90s we had a huge problem getting some of the housing stuff done. We really -- I had -- there was property on Winthrop. In the ’90 census, I inherited the 4800 block of Winthrop. And I had engaged the entire block and the entire building of 4848 in a discussion about what to do with that housing and had -- what to do across the street with the empty land and how to create something that would allow for really a mixed income. Now, when I talk about mixed income, I mean -- what really is anywhere from zero to 80 percent of median income in the city, right? I mean, really it’s sort of -- 73 �JJ: But they don’t (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: How do you create stability? JJ: Right. [02:10:00] HS: And that means being able to have people come and live their lives, which is if today you work, tomorrow you don’t or you really do well but then something happens in your family, whatever -- you have to allow for all of that stuff -- or you’re really doing poorly but you’re working every day. Whatever. JJ: So, that’s the -- the mission is try to create stability is what you’re saying (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: Well, yeah, and in the real world so that anybody, regardless of their income, has what they need to be able to have a roof over their head. JJ: But you get into -- how does that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: Here’s the point. The market takes care of anyone who can afford it. And if the market takes care of everyone really, then I don’t care. I don’t need to mess with the market. The problem with the market is that people aren’t able to interact with it, for one reason or another, or the market is destroying their own stability, which is -- depending on where you are with the cycle of speculation. [02:11:00] People in uptown or in Lincoln Park during periods of gentrification often are destabilized and to no fault of their own because that’s what the market is doing. That’s what the government -- JJ: There was some racism involved in it -- HS: Totally. JJ: -- in Lincoln Park (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). 74 �HS: There’s always -- I mean, that’s part of the dynamic of the status quo. JJ: Whether it was economic or (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: I think that race plays in and out of all of it. I don’t think there’s any question about that. Race is the cutting line in our society. It’s the core of our existence. It’s the core of our foundations as a country. Our constitution, exhibits, in some measure, the history of correcting, improving on the limits of its own founding. And one of those improvements has been, in my view, outlawing discrimination, dealing with issues of racism [02:12:00] objectively in the law. The fact that there’s people today talking about during that back is enough to actually make me catatonic at some moments in time. That’s really a setback that is unimaginable to me but really quite extraordinary. So, it’s an ongoing process because it is part of who we are as a people and is aggravated by any effort or any stronghold individually collectively that we may have that diminishes one group for another’s benefit and then takes advantage of that and has [color of law?] to do so, both personally and economically or in any form of power. I mean, it is what will destroy the country, if it’s not dealt with. I mean, it is what would destroy any society or any culture, whether it’s a small culture -- you’re talking about a small community or one that you’re [02:13:00] talking about a whole government or one that you’re talking about internationally. JJ: Yeah. But I’m saying is that the bottom line is that that’s what happens in those areas (inaudible). HS: Totally. Well, all of them. Well, it’s racism (break in audio) reiterate what I said earlier. I think that -- 75 �JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: No, but I think it’s racism that allows a situation (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) it’s racism that allows the situation to occur when it negatively impacts poor people as well, whether they’re -- or any people as well, whether they’re white, Black, or Latino because it is that dynamic, which the core of dehumanization that undermines our growth as people. Sorry. I just think that that’s true. So, yeah, of course. And it’s important to understand and acknowledge the specifics of it at different times, especially when there’s a possibility of changing it or changing [02:14:00] what’s allows. But there’s the legal aspect, and then there’s the practical aspect. JJ: So, is there a possibility of changing that, or is that just going to remain the -- HS: Oh, I think that. JJ: -- the same? HS: Oh, you mean do you think the people are inherently racist? No, I don’t. JJ: No, I’m saying -- I mean, clearly that’s what happened in those areas. I mean, do you agree? HS: I think that there has been historically structural racism in the city of Chicago. JJ: Okay. And then, so what -- I’m just trying to -- I’m -- HS: Okay, so, let me go back to -- JJ: -- have you thought about it? Have you thought about (inaudible)? HS: I always think about the things. I think the -- one of the -- there are two things that Harold did when he became mayor that I think were very insightful. He said that we -- well, there was one thing he said that had two parts to it. He said that 76 �if we’re going to change a city so that it serves everybody, then we’re going to have to deal with institutional racism and institutional corruption. It’s not about individuals. It’s about the institutions that allow people to act in a certain manner and actually encourage them to do so. That’s why changing law is actually important. [02:15:00] Changing laws are all the same thing, different (inaudible). And he said honestly, that takes a long time. And he gave himself 20 years to do it. He didn’t have 20 years. But he put in motion a series of things that really have had a huge impact on the city. And what I was getting to about Daley was that, as a practical politician, he came to a conclusion, which I think was more clear after these guys left, the ones that I was just talking about. But he came to -- or at least he was able to open up his immediate circle to be able to -- whether he thought this before or not, I don’t know -- but clearly a decision he made was that he needed to out-Harold Harold. So, there was a bar [02:16:00] that Harold had set at a moment in time. I think if Harold had been here with us longer, the bar would have continued to rise. But Daley took the bar. He may not have risen it higher, but over the course of the next 15 years, he met that. He actually -maybe even 10 years, no 15. He actually met that. He did a series of things that Harold was very clear about. So, he made sure that we -- he did the affordable housing stuff. I mean, he actually established certain rules and guidelines that the city had to follow. He created -- he worked with the aldermen and make sure we had an ordinance that dealt with minority contracting and did things to protect it and successfully defended it in court. He -- whatever. I mean, there’s a whole list of things. So, that was a smart political move [02:17:00] because he needed 77 �the Black community in order -- he wanted to have the Black community. He wanted to also change his image of who he was. He was doing all those different kinds of stuff. That’s not to say that there’s not a lot of criticism -- I’m just talking about this thing you raised here -- or even that there wasn’t a lot of racism that carries on. But the institutional racism that those things attacked changed, in some measure, the city. The corruptions, it’s clear that -- and everybody protects their situation because they’re protecting themselves, especially when you’re talking about corruption (inaudible) going to jail. If you talk about racism, then you’re just talking about whether -- it might affect someone’s job. But they’re not really -- it’s a little bit -- unless they kill someone. So, the -- plus it’s more -- [02:18:00] I don’t know -- they’re both accepted. That’s the problem. So, with corruption though there’s -- I mean, there’s been so many changes. And the problem with corruption is it’s not just in public life. It’s not just in the city. I mean, it's true with racism as well. But with corruption somehow everyone denies -- people acknowledge racism generally. They may say, “It’s not me,” but they acknowledge it generally. Corruption -- they really like to put it just on the politicians. But the truth is corruption thrives in the political world because it is rampant in the corporate world (laughs) because who else takes advantage of it? I mean, really, who’s always benefiting? So, it gets a little bit more complicated. And to me, the cynicism which is -- what do what we were earlier talking about, about this disconnected or about how viewing things from different perspectives -- which I really liked that conversation. To me, what I was trying to say was -- there’s a line -- and I talked about it as individual versus [02:19:00] 78 �collective. But I think another way to talk about it is cynical versus intentional. So, I don’t have any problem being skeptical. And I certainly have (inaudible) times in my life being paranoid because sometimes there’s a reason to be. If you are assigned an FBI agent, there’s a good reason to be concerned about the FBI. And I’ve had that experience. So, I mean, I know that they’re there. That’s not paranoia. That’s just an actual fact. Whether it makes me be -JJ: Who (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: In Racine we had our own personal FBI agent. We did. We used to talk to him. (Laughs) It was -- I wish (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) remembered his name. I do remember what we looked like. But cynicism is really -- undermines us because there’s nothing positive about cynicism. It saps your energy, and it makes everything bad. And often [02:20:00] when there’s a polarization, which is done for organizing reasons. It’s positive when it’s done in a manner that really has an objective that will create the opportunity for material impact. But then, you have to take that. You’ve got to take the victory and run with it. Do something with it. I think. But if it’s really just about proving something is bad, then it’s just about cynicism, and it does not help make anything better. That’s my problem. All it does is foster anger. And honestly, in the world we live in today, we don’t need any more anger. We’ve got enough of it. JJ: I see. I agree with that. I agree with that. But then, I still see the (laughs) other point. The point is that they’re frustrated too because there’s no -- HS: I totally get that. JJ: -- nothing that -- 79 �HS: Well, and part of why -- JJ: -- has changed in all these years. HS: And part of why we -- well, there have been some changes because I mean -- JJ: No, significant changes because you [02:21:00] have the lakefront that’s really white -- HS: Except in uptown. JJ: Except in uptown? No, like -- that’s (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: But listen, but that’s what’s so frustrating about this. I mean, there’s been a lot of gentrification up here. But we still have been able to make sure -- JJ: Even the word “gentrification” is like -- it’s a nice term to put on what effect on these people’s lives including the youth and the gang and the violence that came from an unstable environment that was created. So, how do we correct it? That’s what I’m saying. HS: And what I was trying to say is that we have -- I have a lot of -- JJ: And I don’t (inaudible). (Laughs) HS: We’ve had a lot of gentrification up here, and we’ve also had a lot of intentional actions to ensure that there continues to be at least some affordability and people [02:22:00] who have fewer resources are able to stay in this community and to be able to -- JJ: I think this is (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Well, yeah. But I think that’s important to stress that even though we’ve done that, we still have had a lot of gentrification. And we have not -- I don’t think -and one of the side effects of that is you have this hugely volatile group of people 80 �who are so meanspirited and react -- my opposition became incredibly vicious. And they find excuses for the current alderman, because he’s their guy, for the same things they would crucify me for. I mean, the violence hasn’t dissipated up here. It’s worse. It’s not anywhere near other parts of the city, but it’s still here. And they like to blame it on poor people. And when they blame it -- and they like to blame is the point. [02:23:00] They don’t really have anyone to blame it on now so they come up with really crazy things like -- now they’re blaming it on (inaudible) but the point isn’t blame. The point is -- what do we do about solving problems in our world so that we can all do that? And when there’s anyone -- I think this is sort of the bully mentality -- who is a bully in the sense of saying, “No, I know better, and I’m not going to participate with you.” And it’s happening all over. It's happening in politics all over the country. It happens in communities all the same. And the bully gets the most to say. And yet, if you ever had an election, the bully would never get the votes. I mean, even in a closet ballot in a room, forget a big election. But people are intimidated by the bully and therefore either walk away because they don’t want to have anything to do with it or just shut up. And the bully is screaming and yelling and saying, “All this is about these people that I don’t like in my community because they’re there,” and pointing the finger at someone who made [0:24:00] them be there. And that was the dynamic we had here and continue to have here on some level and I think have citywide. And I don’t know the answer. I mean, right now, I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that. I think that what we did was the right thing to do in terms of the housing. I was going to talk -- I started to talk about what happened 81 �in the ’90s. And unfortunately, I think we lost some opportunities to really -- well, I mean, in ’87 I did and then again in the ’90s. But there were two different times when I tried to create, on multiple properties, owner occupied three flats where we would market the three flats to people who lived at -- basically on teacher salaries -- we were really gearing them toward teachers -- who lived in the community [02:25:00] or wanted to live in the community and who either lived in the community or taught in the community. We were trying to get people who knew the community. If they would own or occupy the three flats and agree to rent the other two units at below market rent -- so, it didn’t have to be low income, but that they would moderate the rents. And they could take in Section 8 or they would moderate the rents. And they would live there and do that. And by doing so, we would create a sort of -- you are orchestrating this. But we would plant that seeds to create opportunities to be the glue between very rich and very poor, which is what we were end up having at some point, and build this kind of sort of -- in building each of these pieces of property, the opportunity for [01:26:00] different levels of people to be living there and different ways for people to be able to organize their lives. And we were focused on teachers because we knew then that they would be focused on their students and on their students’ families. But you didn’t have to go there, but that was the idea that we kind of developed in ’87. We had a whole plan for it, and it was actually killed intentionally during the course of Harold’s funeral. It was the last thing -- the last time I met with him was on the last city council meeting before he died, which was a Wednesday two weeks or three weeks before he died, on the podium. 82 �And he was arranging to meet -- two things we were working on, lights at Wrigley Field and the protection for the neighbors, which is what I wanted, and this housing thing I had, which we were going to go on 17 tax delinquent properties. And to do that, he needed to Dunne to agree. JJ: How was that (inaudible)? HS: We were going to get a hold off 17 properties that had delinquent taxes through a tax reactivation program that the county board had to approve. And he was talking to George Dunn about doing it. And it was supposed to have been a week earlier. And Dunne had -- they had deferred it, and I went ballistic. And he said, “This is all politics. It’s about the city wide politics. It’s about the dream ticket for the February primaries. And give me a few weeks, and I’ll deal with it.” And so, he got me that day and he said, “I’m still working on it. I’ll get back to you. Come in and meet with me. I’ll call you shortly to come in and meet with me.” And then, he called over Rob Meer, and he said, “Meet with Helen. Schedule it now about the protection -- I want you to do all the -- [02:28:00] put in the ordinance for light. We can’t do lights unless we do every protection she wants. Put it in there. Tuesday morning before Thanksgiving -- so, Rob and I agreed to meet Friday after Thanksgiving. Tuesday morning I get a phone call -I’m sorry, Tuesday night -- I get a -- Tuesday -- did he die on Tuesday or Wednesday? The night before he died, I get a phone call, “Come in and meet me tomorrow,” I think it was Tuesday, “Come in and meet,” it was my birthday -- it was Tuesday. “Come in and meet me” -- no, I get a call Monday. “Come in and meet me” -- I don’t know. “Come in and meet me tomorrow at eleven o’clock, 83 �and I got it all worked out.” I said, “Great, fantastic.” So, I get to the office. And I’m on my way upstairs and right on time to walk in at eleven. And Rob Meer jumps in the elevator and is freaking out because he thinks I’m going to go talk to him about his stuff, and we haven’t met yet. And I said, “No, no, no, no, no. Don’t worry about. I’m meeting about the other thing. We’re cool,” get off the elevator. It’s two minutes [02:29:00] after eleven and Harold was dying in his office. First city council meeting we had, Cathy Osterman, who was the alderman of 48th ward, stands up and defers and publishes -- my ordinance to do all this had been passed through finance and was just sitting to go through to city council. It never -- it had been deferred and published to city council, which means you’re going to vote on it. But any two alderman say postpone the vote until after the next city council meeting when the journal is published. So, it had been deferred and published, and we were supposed to vote on it. And she -- no one’s ever done this ever, to my knowledge, before or since. And she puts in a motion to kill my ordinance. Usually they just don’t call it up. But she called it up to defeat it, and they defeated it. [02:30:00] And that was because I voted for Evans instead of Sawyer. So, we lost that opportunity. Then in the ’90s, I brought it back, and I wanted it -- we were going to try and do something similar, new version based on what the city was doing. And the housing commissioner refused to even talk to me about it. Meanwhile, I went and got all the properties assembled. I got a developer to assemble all the properties. And because of something that happened in another part of the city, he then decided he wasn’t going to deal with me. It was taking too long. And he turned around -- even 84 �though I did all the work. But he bought the properties. But I did all the work to make it possible. JJ: Who was this? Who was this? HS: It was Thrush. He turned around and sold all the properties to -- JJ: [Russ?] was the name? HS: Thrush, T-H-R-U-S-H. He turned around and sold -- [02:31:00] we was upset with me about something else in another part of the city. He sold the properties to individual developers for lots of money. So, he made big time money off of it. I mean, I gave him the context that made it possible to acquire it. It was a nursing home and something else. But it was a huge tract of land. So, ultimately what we ended up doing by swapping some city property over the course of time was that I was able to get a developer to build two buildings there. I basically -- I leveraged some city owned property. And he agreed to use two CPAN units, which was a program that I got the city to do which allowed for affordable home ownership. So, we basically built 16 units that sold for $145,000 including parking, to 16 families. And they were all -- there were two -- four of those 16 units were [02:32:00] two bedroom apartments, and the rest were three. So, that was what we got instead of our 17 lots of owner occupied three flats. It took me a long time to do that. And that didn’t happen until this century in 2003 or 2004. But we lost that opportunity in the ’90s. We had a horrible time in the ’90s getting anything done. It was horrible up here. And meanwhile -- just with housing. But I was able to protect the housing we had and get some stuff redone. And then, 85 �we had a little bit done, a few buildings here and there. But mostly -- and then, really protected the health clinic and some of the other infrastructures that -JJ: (Overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? HS: -- poor people used. Yeah. Well, I focused on the entire health system. My goal was to make sure that we continued to have a board of health that [02:33:00] provided service and/or a broader public delivery system, which we had some steps forwards and backwards. When the city was trying to close down Lawndale -- no, not Lawndale -- oh, what’s the community right on the hospital, the University of Chicago Hospital, with a W? JJ: Woodlawn? HS: Woodlawn. Gosh. Woodlawn. I went -- Ruth Rothheimer was at the county. And the alderman was Linda Troutman. And I went to Linda. I said, “Don’t let them close it down. Why don’t you talk to Ruth and see if we can’t just do a partnership with the county.” So, she called Ruth, and Ruth said sure. So, we were able to get that done. But later on, the county gave up the Woodlawn site, so then, I started to get nervous [02:34:00] about it. And so, we started to look at -- because this was -- since the Republicans have been basically withdrawing all public resources, it’s been really a problem to -- you get money like specialized stuff like -- JJ: The Republicans? Where from? HS: Well, nationally -- JJ: Oh, national. 86 �HS: -- the national move to eliminate any funds for local -- so, health wise, the only resources that we -- so, all cities in the whole country in the last couple of years. I mean, I call it a -- we may have a Democratic administration, but we have a Republican shutdown of government. So, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) over the last years as all of the cities and states have had to come to terms with the loss of federal revenues, which is really the biggest crisis we’ve had -- JJ: Okay, so you’re saying we might have a Democratic administration but the Republicans -- HS: Republicans are shut down -- JJ: -- are shutting down -- HS: Nationally we have a Republican shutdown -- JJ: Oh, okay. HS: Because nothing is happening. [02:35:00] I mean, they’ve shut down Congress. So, one of the impacts (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) so, you have an economic crisis. You have a Republican shutdown. You have private industry beginning to come back. But governments all over the entire country on every level having to lay people off, which is the real source of the (break in audio) in the country actually. And it impacts what people get, which -- service wise, which makes people angry. And it’s all done in the guise of dealing with excess money people are spending, which is crazy. I mean, sure, there’s corruption because there’s corruption everywhere, and we can do things better and some stuff we should have done. But oh my gosh. It actually costs money to do this stuff. And now, the only way they’re really dealing with it is by taking away people’s 87 �pensions. So, it's really kind of freaky, if you ask me. But anyway, that’s not what I was going to talk about. [02:37:00] So, there’s been a loss of a great deal of resources on every level of government, including the city. And when it’s on the state, that’s even additional stuff. Because we got stuff from the feds. We also used to get stuff from the state. So, health is one of the areas that’s affected. And the county has the legal responsibility by the state constitution to do (inaudible) healthcare. And the city for many years, since old man Daley was the mayor and wanted to compete for federal dollars for healthcare, has been doing some health delivery. And we have an infrastructure for public health delivery in the city but only through clinics. But the other area where there are federal dollars that are still there and go into healthcare is in clinics, in federally subsidized health clinics. And those are all not for profits, and they provide public health [02:37:00] essentially. And so, my thought was that there were some people thinking in the health department and others that maybe we should do some partnerships. The city can’t get those federal funds. They’re specific to that entity. So, we can’t use them for our clinics, which operate just like their clinics. So, maybe we should do a partnership, and then, we could take advantage of additional federal funds. So, we did an experiment with that in uptown, and they’re doing that with more clinics now. And I’m ambivalent about it. But my bottom line is that the city keep the infrastructure -- we own the infrastructure that we own -- and that it’s a partnership so, that we’re infusing more resources. It’s medical. You need a medical director no matter what. It’s not a bureaucracy. It’s a medical director. So, that’s a good thing. (Laughs) And 88 �you have a qualified medical director, and then, you have qualified doctors. And you do what you have to do. So, they’re doing [02:38:00] some more of that, and then, they’re going this other stuff with the county. But health is really something to be -- now, who knows what’s going to happen with -- there are some of the health laws -- the new healthcare laws are going to be implemented. And then, we’ll see what happens with the election, whether the rest of it is. So, there are changes, and all those things work with them. But at risk in my view consistently is the public infrastructure. And we’ve gotten used to talking about privatization and characterizing it either as bad or as good, depending on what side of that argument you’re on. But the definition needs some -- I think that what I’ve come to believe is that we need to update the definition because when we talked about the clinics, that was the debate. Are you privatizing them? So, from the point of view of asking me how the staff did -- they said, “They were privatizing it. We’re going to lose our jobs. Therefore, it’s privatized.” And when we did the thing in uptown, my bottom line was [02:39:00] no one can lose their job. You can transfer them to another -- two things, no one can lose their job, one, unless they were already planning on leaving and, two, any extra resources that the city realizes as a result of this needs to stay in the public health department and go into other clinics in the city. So, they agreed to that. I think two jobs were eliminated, but nobody was working in them. And that work is being done because it’s structured differently, and that’s okay in my view. But that’s -- you do that anyway. But apparently in the last year -- and I know this only from reading newspapers -- but it sounds like what happened was that a lot of people did lose 89 �their jobs, when I looked at the stuff from the budget last year. Now, some of that changes. I didn’t know what happened in the final budget. I just know when they were done with the articles. But I have to admit to you that when the city budget came out last year I actually read it -- (Laughs) I couldn’t help myself -- and compared it. But I didn’t keep up with -- I didn’t go [02:40:00] to the hearings, so I don’t know what they changed. So, if they in fact are then just saying, “We’re going to just go have someone else do our delivery,” then you really are -- then I think you’re on the verge of that. And so, I thought we had a really good model. And I guess the best I can say that I did all the time is create models. And I don’t think they’re using that same model. And that’s the kind of demand. But if you just says it’s privatization, then you’re just polarized. “I’m for, I’m against it.” Is you say, “Wait, let’s just talk about what needs to happen and how you can make that happen,” then you have a chance. And I think that’s the problem currently out of the box that happened with the teacher’s union -- I mean, you’re dealing with a mayor whose nature is to polarize, really. He also wants to solve problems. I think that -JJ: This is the new mayor? HS: Yeah. I think he does honestly actually want to solve problems. But it is in his nature to go -- you start a fight, he’ll fight back. [02:41:00] And he usually won’t listen. He won’t let up until he wins. Unfortunately, I think that’s overkill in this situation. And I think that the dynamic could have been entirely different. And I would hope that it would change because I don’t think it’s healthy for anyone, whether you’re talking about education or any of these other areas that really 90 �provide service to people around things that are necessary to survive. I mean, that’s the bottom line for me. That’s where government’s role is, whether it’s in the market, not taking care of people, housing market, medical market, whatever. People need to be able to know that they have the ability to survive. And this new categorization of any of that is socialism -- which who cares if it is or it isn’t -therefore as something that no one should want, which Romney does left and right and drives me absolutely nuts because it’s all rhetoric about what’s at risk [02:42:00] and something that he will never understand because he’s never wanted for anything in his life and never really known anyone who wanted for anything in his life is that the world in which he has governed has -- because of the things that he is so much a part of -- has created and perpetuated these -- so many inequalities and so many negative aspects to it that just don’t take into consideration the real needs that so many people have. And if you’re doing that just to even one person, there’s a problem with what you’re talking about. But when you do it to so many, it’s just -- so, I was reading all these little -- people now through Facebook always are sending out all these factoids. So, I don’t know if this is true. But one of the factoids that came out, which if it’s true -- I have to believe might be -- is really -- actually had me sort of discouraged for at least a day is this -- if you take all the money that was spent [02:43:00] this year alone on -- just on all of the Republican primaries, you could probably improve by 10 fold the quality of living of virtually everybody in the world. JJ: If you take all the money (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? 91 �HS: Well, maybe it wasn’t that. Maybe it was that everybody wouldn’t have to be hungry. JJ: Of the Republican what? HS: Just the money spent on the Republican -- JJ: Primary. HS: -- primaries. You’d have enough money to make it possible -- I think everyone have a place to live, something like that. It’s like, “Oh my god.” And you know (inaudible) socialist or communist. And I just don’t get it. Maryanne Stamps used to say -- she used to demand that -- JJ: Maryanne Stamps was the organizer of the Cabrini-Green (inaudible)? HS: Yeah, tranquility. Her point was -- start off with welfare rights -- her point was if everybody -- if you had a flat amount of income that everybody had to have which was equal to what you needed to have a place to live [02:44:00] and food on your table, healthcare -- of course, in any other country you’d already have healthcare -- if everyone just had that -- you know, if you had a medical card -- if everyone just had that -- and when she was talking about, that was maybe $8,000 or $9,000 a year, and today it might be $20,000. But then you started from that. Then you would actually -- then all things being equal, people would actually have a chance to be able to do something (inaudible) or go to school. They could work and go to school. I mean, they could do stuff that they just can’t do now because they don’t have the time to spend doing it. And when you say, “Well, they’re lazy. They’ll sit around. They’ll do all that,” it’s all self-fulfilling 92 �prophesies because if you don’t actually make a change and redefine the context, then no one is going to act differently. Are we done? JJ: Any final thoughts? [02:45:00] HS: (Laughs) I think I’ve given you quite a few. JJ: And (inaudible) have another (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: Yeah, I saw her. I told you we weren’t going to get done in an hour (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). JJ: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. HS: We actually got to quite a bit. JJ: Any final thoughts (inaudible)? HS: I think that I never have a final thought. (Laughs) JJ: Okay, well, I appreciate that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). HS: It’s not over -- END OF AUDIO FILE 93 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ffe25a1e564a65cc26a6beb55620f3cc.mp4 dbe0498c53ed7a5e5974825263760158 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Helen Schiller vídeo entrevista y biografía Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Narrativas personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Shiller_Helen Title A name given to the resource Helen Shiller video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shiller, Helen Description An account of the resource Helen Shiller, a Jewish American born in 1947 in Long Island, New York. Her father had immigrated to the United States from Latvia and her mother from Belarus. She moved to Chicago’s Uptown neighborhood in 1972, living on N. Malden Street. Initially she drove a cab and worked as a waitress. At an early age, she became active in the anti-Vietnam War movement while attending college at the University of Wisconsin at Madison. In Chicago, she helped to organize the Intercommunal Survival Committee with Rev. Walter “Slim” Coleman. The organization functioned as a sort of white support arm of the Black Panther Party and later evolved into the Heart of Uptown Coalition, a group dedicated to providing essential services to the poor. She also edited Keep Strong magazine. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-07-10 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd4e67fa2588974c90c2e9affb107b07.mp3 85736715e091ec4a9f28b9cd4c980e9a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/78c7a6521cc98bc279042c7d715a5ddf.pdf 2f91d395eab6fd8a8ef22c12d25254e0 PDF Text Text Hell? Text: Isaiah 66:24; Luke 1:51-52 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan December 13, 1992 Transcription of the spoken sermon ...the people who have rebelled against me; for their worm shall not be quenched. Isaiah 66:24 ...he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts. He has brought down the powerful from their thrones, and lifted up the lowly. Luke 1:51-52 Let us descend into hell. Well, I mean, we’ve been to heaven. Now, “Hell?” I suppose if there is a heaven it is quite natural that one might raise a question about the other possibility. But what has the Magnificat to do with such a question? Well, it has everything to do with that question, I suppose, because in the beauty of voice and instrument, the Magnificat according to Pachelbel becomes an ethereal experience. But did you catch the words? He has shown strength with his arm. He has scattered the proud and the thoughts of their hearts. He has brought down the powerful from their thrones and lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things and sent the rich empty away. That is a battle cry in the mouth of a young Hebrew maiden. That is a radical social statement, and if there is a hell it will be populated by the powerful and the rich and mighty who rule and oppress and abuse and who lack justice, righteousness, compassion and love. If God is angry, God is angry not with the ungodly who pay no heed, but with the godly who insulate themselves from the pain of the world. If Jesus was angry it was not with tax collectors and adulterers and garden-variety sinners. It was with the religious establishment that bound heavy burdens on the peoples’ back and oppressed people in the name of God. Is there a hell? “Yes, Virginia, there’s a hell.” It is the hell of missing the meaning and purpose of life, of having one’s life end without realizing its full potential, a life of self regard and self assertion and self centeredness that fails to find the rhythm of God’s movement, which is to realize the highest possibility for our human existence. If there is wrath in God and wrath in Jesus Christ, it is not for © Grand Valley State University   �Hell? Richard A. Rhem Page 2   the poor, the oppressed, the careless and the reckless; it is for the well-informed and the enlightened folks like us with power, position and prestige who go our own way while the world weeps and goes to hell. “Hell?” Question mark because we are talking about things about which we have no experience, and about things beyond the veil we cannot penetrate in our present experience. But the question is always before us even though it doesn’t get mentioned in polite circles and is not a topic for conversation. Preached on almost never in the Church and yet the question of Hell is a kind of ghost that lurks around the edges. The doctrine of hell or of everlasting or eternal punishment has been the chief weapon of the Church for controlling people, scaring people, manipulating people. It probably has been the greatest travesty perpetrated in the name of God and goodness and decency. And yet you can’t take the Bible seriously without sensing that there is a kind of ultimacy about the issue of our life. At the very end of the Old Testament in Isaiah, a very late writing, there is a beginning of that imagery that we call apocalyptic. That genre of writing is classically expressed in the book of Revelation where you have all the images of fire, and smoke, and the moon darkened, and the sun darkened, and the heavens falling and that kind of thing. You have the very beginnings of that in that last chapter of Isaiah 66. Verse 24 of that chapter is a gruesome verse. Just prior to that verse all the nations are beginning to come to Jerusalem to worship before the Lord. It seems like there is a kind of universalistic theme here where the nations will finally come to worship at the temple. But then the 24th verse says, “And they shall go out and look at the dead bodies of the people who have rebelled against me, for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” In the synagogue in the Jewish tradition when this lesson was read, the lecture could not end with that verse. The reader had to go back and read verse 23 because they didn’t want any lesson to end on that note. The picture was too gruesome. In the passage that I read in the Gospel of Mark, I read it because it is full of hell, but the word hell is a translation of the Hebrew word for the Valley of Hinnom. The Valley of Hinnom was a valley just outside Jerusalem. To the south on the Mount of Olives as you look across the Kidron Valley to Jerusalem, you could also look south and you could see the Valley of Hinnom. The Valley of Hinnom was the place where they burned the offal of the animals that were slaughtered for temple sacrifice. It was where they threw the bodies of criminals. The Valley of Hinnom was a public incinerator. It was a refuse heap. It was a garbage dump. But this is the imagery that Jesus picks up. Now the imagery is so strong and so lurid - the temple sacrifices created a rather rancid situation around the temple. There are one or two persons here in Christ Community that would like me eventually to come with one of those sensors, you know, with a little incense. Why not, we’ve got everything else? One of these days we are going to have a little incense. But the incense for us would simply be one more little pretty trifle in our worship, but in the temple days the incense had a function - it stank. It was to get rid of the odor. © Grand Valley State University �Hell? Richard A. Rhem Page 3   When I was a boy, my father was superintendent of a company that had a subsidiary and once in a while he would have to go out and visit that company. Whenever I could, I would jump in the truck with him. I loved to ride in that truck. The subsidiary was the Kalamazoo Rendering Works. Have you ever been to a rendering works? You know what they do? They go around to farms and pick up dead animals and bring them in (Are you comfortable?) - they bring these dead animals in and slaughter them and take the skin and cure the skin and hides, and they grind up these things, you know, bones and all and make fertilizer. So one summer day, very hot, I went out with my father and walked into the slaughtering room and I lost it. It was bad! If you have ever been to a rendering works, you probably haven’t returned. There is another image I have – it’s an image of a friend of mine down in Florida. I used to go down fishing with him, and you know if you are a fisherman one of the problems is to get rid of the fish heads and the other stuff. You can’t put it in your garbage can because it begins to reek there. You really have to bury it. My Dad always buried it. The guy in Florida had dug a pit and he threw the entrails into that pit. I went out with him one time. He took the cover off and I’ll tell you I just snapped back. It was white and it moved. (Laughter) There must have been one billion maggots just delightfully feasting. One other image. I used to weed celery in Kalamazoo in the muck. (Laughter) In the muck in the summertime sometimes there is a kind of spontaneous combustion and the muck starts to smolder and sometimes those fires in those muck fields would go on all summer. And they smelled too! They just kept smoldering, kind of like a peat bog on fire. The imagery of hell in the scripture is a combination of the Kalamazoo Rendering Works, that maggot pit, and the muck that burns forever. That is the picture. That is the image. Hell in Mark 12, as Jesus uses it, is a translation of the Valley of Hinnom, and the Valley of Hinnom became a symbol, an image, for life that ends up on the garbage heap. In the Old Testament, in apocalyptic thought, and in the ministry of the teachings of Jesus, it became the image that said to people, “Life is important and you are responsible for the way you live. You are responsible for the choices you make. And at the end of it all, as well as during the interim period, you are constantly being called into account. You are responsible for the way you live. You are responsible for the issue of your life. Your life is a gift and the way that you use it, and the choices that you make, the decisions, the priorities, the values, the things to which you give your heart and soul – those things will be reviewed with you, for you will stand in the presence of them and in the presence of God and there will be that moment of judgment.” What Jesus was getting at when he talked and used this kind of imagery was not the building of a systematic theological picture of eternal damnation or bliss as the case may be, but rather with saying to people here and now before him, “Watch. Take care. Live responsibly. You are called to righteousness and to © Grand Valley State University �Hell? Richard A. Rhem Page 4   justice and compassion, and to love. You are called to care and to be careful, and so don’t miss the meaning of life. Don’t miss the purpose for which God created you. You can miss it. You can destroy yourself. You can destroy others.” I believe with all my heart that judgment is woven into the biblical narrative from beginning to end, and I do not believe that any one of us, neither myself nor you, will ever get away with anything. What we sow we will also reap. That which we do and that which we speak, and that to which we commit our hearts, are those things to which we are held accountable. And there will be that moment of accounting. There will be a reckoning. Life is not simply to be willy nilly on its way, flouncing along nonchalantly, carelessly, as though it doesn’t matter, as if it doesn’t matter if one cares or not, if one decides for compassion or not, if one is selfish or self-aggrandizing or not. All of these things matter. Everything matters. Life is serious! That is what Jesus conveyed. Life has implications. Decisions have consequences. Don’t we really know that no one ultimately gets away with anything? I wouldn’t want to live in a world where I could get away with something. Would you? Well, I wouldn’t mind living in a world where I could get away with it, but I wouldn’t want to live in a world where you could get away with it. (Laughter) I want to be sure that I live in a world that has a kind of moral fabric about it so that there is something or someone, or some structure of things that will make for ultimate justice - on the side of righteousness and compassion and love. The Magnificat was a battle song on the lips of a young Hebrew maiden who said, “God is a God who sets what is wrong to right. God is a God who is on the side of the poor, the oppressed and the voiceless and the powerless. God cares. God cares about the human condition. And God has a bias for those who have no advocate.” Jesus manifested the wrath of God against the powerful, the religious, the establishment, the entrenched - those who had a vested interest in the status quo. Jesus was radical, revolutionary and they crucified him because, if they didn’t crucify him, they would have had to change. All of the prophets have been killed. And religion has been the instrument of their murder. Jesus in the prophetic tradition was a destabilizer. But before long the religious institutions were able to get things back into the neat and tidy. Religion all too easily, again and again, becomes the baptizer of the status quo. It becomes the institutionalized form of oppression and abuse all too often. In the name of God it baptizes those structures of society that hold people down and gives advantage to those who are powerful - like us. Hell has been the best thing the churches had going. It has held people under threat. It has scared people to death. It has made people cower before a finger pointing to an angry and wrathful God. But we have set the truth of God on its head. Life is serious. God holds us accountable. We are not going to get away with anything. But I need to preach about the doctrine of hell as it has been traditionally taught in the medieval church and the Protestant Reformation and in our own tradition. I need to © Grand Valley State University �Hell? Richard A. Rhem Page 5   preach about that in order to undo the damage that has been done with that doctrine, a doctrine that has driven out of the Church too many thoughtful people. For it is not really believed by as many people as it would seem to be believed by. I have got to tell you that the biblical witness is very diverse. There is not a clear teaching on the ultimate destiny of all human kind. There was no formal creedal Church statement on eternal punishment until the 6th century. Some of the most illustrious names in the gallery of the Church did not believe in a hell in the traditional sense of a place of eternal torment, so the witness is divided. There have been various solutions that have been suggested. There is the traditional one that the righteous go to eternal life and the damned go to eternal torment. There is the opposite - the idea of a kind of universal restoration where God will finally be all in all. And then there is a view that is more popular presently and which seems to be growing in conservative circles that is called Annihilationism - a view that those who come to the grace of God will be issued into eternal bliss, and those that reject that grace will not be eternally tormented but simply come to extinction. Well, what do you believe? What do you believe? You need not look to me for an answer because I, like you, struggle with these things and think about them, but I will tell you a couple of things that I believe, and I hope that it will help you as you think about the ultimate issue of your own life. I will tell you one thing that I do not believe. I do not believe in a God of retribution. That God has been portrayed by the Church all too often, I think - the kind of God whose offended honor demands that God gets his own, a kind of punishment and reward, where God is all too human. I don’t see God that way as God was revealed in Jesus. I don’t believe God is an angry deity, offended at the dishonor of his dignity, waiting to mete out punishment. Neither do I believe that the doctrine of hell as it has been taught in the Church has been a fair reflection of the biblical witness, but rather that it has been used as a control mechanism. I believe in the Church we have imposed guilt and threatened judgment as a means of control. Many Christian leaders have felt that, to be honest with the people and to take that away, would be to lose control, and that the common people need to be scared of hell in order to have the hell scared out of them. I also believe that there has been a lot of desire for something like eternal punishment. Not that we would think that we might be candidates for it, but there are some others we know who have it coming. I’m serious. There is that kind of something in us that wants revenge and wants another to get their due. We hope that the bullies and the ones who have beat us and competed with us and conquered us and oppressed us, perhaps will get their due. In the history of the Church and in the Old Testament there are some lurid pictures of the righteous rejoicing over the damnation of the wicked. I could quote you some vivid statements. The Church, religious people, have often been © Grand Valley State University �Hell? Richard A. Rhem Page 6   the oppressed and the persecuted - the minority. Our biblical doctrines, our biblical documents and our creedal tradition come most often out of a people who are no people, and there was this kind of crying out for God to damn the persecutors. Tertullian, the great church father, said that “the righteous would be able to take joy and satisfaction in seeing the burning of the wicked who had oppressed them.” Those kinds of emotions, which are rampant in the history of our theological tradition in the Christian Church, those kinds of emotions are sub-Christian, less than Jesus taught. They are unworthy of the God reflected in Jesus, and they really have no place for us. If we perpetuate that kind of thinking, what we do is turn thoughtful people away. We trivialize the reality of life’s accountability. And we fail to say instead to those within the Church and without, “Don’t miss the meaning of life.” Probably the best image that I have ever found, that helps me in all of this is just a paragraph from C.S. Lewis. Rather than hell, he speaks of purgatory, a final cleansing justification: Our souls demand purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, “It is true my son that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy.” Should we not reply, “It was submission, Sir, and if there’s no objection I would rather be cleansed first.” “It may hurt, you know?” “Even so, Sir, I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering, partly from tradition, partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it.” But I don’t think suffering is the purpose of purgation. I can well believe that people neither much worse or much better than I will suffer less than I or more. No nonsense about merit. The treatment given will be the one required whether it hurts little or much. My favorite image on this matter comes from the dentist’s chair. I hope that when the tooth of life is drawn and I am coming round a voice will say, ‘Rinse your mouth out with this.’ This will be purgatory.” I believe that one day I will be in the presence of the Lord. That at the moment of death there is an encounter with God, at which moment all is clear and all is revealed. I believe that encounter with God, a moment which reveals all, will be the moment of regret, remorse, repentance, and then adoration at a grace that says, “Nevertheless.” Could one finally say, “No,” to that grace? It would be presumptuous to answer I suppose. It is my hope and conviction that God’s “Yes,” © Grand Valley State University �Hell? Richard A. Rhem Page 7   will finally batter down my every “No,” and all the “No’s” of all those who are encountered finally by the living God. Hell? I don’t know. Of grace - of that I am certain. Thank God! © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Advent III Scripture Text Isaiah 66:24, Luke 1:51-52 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19921213 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1992-12-13 Title A name given to the resource Hell? Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 13, 1992 entitled "Hell?", on the occasion of Advent III, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Isaiah 66:24, Luke 1:51-52. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Forgiveness Grace Hell Justice https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a270ca1eef38b40451bf2ab26ad55471.jpg 60e6cbbd1665eb30083fdb8655fa62b2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HelmicVirginia Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Helmic, Virginia Description An account of the resource Virginia Helmic Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b5797bcb5b7f5c282be3d1b06bd3fd0a.m4v 79f91d81deeb5f6e432d8f39acb103d2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/167095013b2c7df20cebbfda33b28d75.pdf c8a5e8b55e164ea609fbfb9f3eda56cd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Henry Lee Helmink Length of Interview (01:32:05) Background Born in Holland, Michigan, April 15, 1924 Father and mother owned a small farm (near Virginia Park in Allendale) before losing it during The Depression An uncle bought an oil company; began distributing oil Later owned a station in Holland; eventually got out of it His father worked at many different places Once worked at a sugar beet factory Helmink would wait at the back door for his father to get off work; the engineer there would let him in to watch the steam engine work His mother took care of his siblings: five sisters (two older, three younger) and a younger brother Stayed in school through high school, Holland High Lived in the many parks near Virginia Park Remembers hearing about Pearl Harbor (00:02:40)  His mother called in Helmink and a few of his siblings and listened to the living room radio  “Day of Infamy”  Was a junior in high school, knew what he would be doing next year; his mother was upset and worried about it Wasn’t thinking about enlisting, at the time; talked with his buddy about it in school (00:3:40) Both went to enlist in the Air Corps with a travelling unit in Muskegon � If they didn’t make it into the Air Corps, would join the Navy instead; didn’t want to be “Dough Boys” Helmink passed the test, but his friend (Sonny) didn’t  Sonny was one point off on his written test; told he could come back in six months to try again  Ended up joining the Navy after one more failed attempt  Helmink didn’t see him during the war Graduated from high school in 1934 (00:04:40)  Had signed up in October of that year; was working at a job: machine shop  Tool-and-Die apprentice Was in the newspaper already that he was going to be called into duty  This was the first his boss (superintendent) heard of it; was a little upset as he had just hired Helmink Could have gotten a deferment (job dealt with bearings and engines), but his mind was already set Very interested in aircraft Had been in an airplane previously, in an open biplane  Before final approach, the pilot shut off the engines and all he could hear was the wind whistling through the guidelines  His younger brother was with him, as well Basic Training (00:07:00) Called in January 27 (1943) Went to the train depot in Detroit (met with his older sister and her family while there); headed off to Miami Beach Many of the men were from Midwest Remembers the train ride being uncomfortable (hard seats, arms made of grape-iron); made a bed out of the chairs with another guy named Caseman �The next morning, stopped at Cincinnati; had breakfast there that had been prepared at a depot (Army) Got a little rough near Georgia, lots of hills Some cars, in between the old coaches, were old mail cars with wooden stoves Would cook hot dogs over them and eat it with peaches and mashed potatoes By the time they would get back to their seats, the paper plate and food were a mess; was a fun time Wasn’t sure where they were going until a little ways; went right to Miami Beach, Florida (00:09:30) Put into a nice hotel, but it was all stripped, except a bed One fellow could play the single piano that was there Many of the men caught colds Put four to six men in a room; wooden bunk beds First part of training: marching on a golf course (00:10:25)  It was funny because many of the guys were in sports coats and white shirts: no uniforms, yet Had Puerto Rican drill sergeants; were really short, loud, snappy guys, very fun and tolerant Learned how to march in a week, good formation Also did calisthenics, running; got in good shape Many of the guys were Helminks’s age; some were married (23-26 years old) After a couple of weeks, went up to Wittenberg College in Ohio (00:12:05)  Studied calculus and some sciences, English courses � Did what one would do in one year of college  Had excellent instructors, college professors  A lot of emphasis in health, athletic instruction Originally, two years of college were required to get into the Air Corp.s, but pilots were needed There for four months; some men were there less time because of their experience and education Pre-Flight Training (00:14:00) Went by train to Santa Ana, California for pre-flight and classification  Learned meteorology, Morse code, more calisthenics, psycho-motor tests (lots of them)  Tests included: depth perception, reaction time, etc.; remembers a particular test with a phonograph (00:14:30)  Air craft identification; given only 1/5 of a sec to recognize an aircraft (all the German and Japanese aircraft) Being prepared for actual flying and combat conditions; learned things that became secondnature, “be part of the airplane,” reflexes Classification Center: given a sheet to sign up for a certain job (didn’t always get that job); Helmink chose to be a pilot (00:16:05) Even went to night classes for Morse code Given a note on their sacks; Helmink became a pilot; some men were navigation or bombardiers  Needed to be commissioned for these designations  Some washed out, didn’t hear of them afterwards (some end up as engineers, etc.) Flight Training (00:18:00) There for 17 weeks Hadn’t gone home; finished pre-flight Started flight training; Tucson, Arizona, Ryan’s School of Aeronautics (private field, west of Tucson) Plane developed from a racing plane, BT-12’s (low-wing, open cockpit) Six men assigned to an instructor; J.N. Taylor, civilian instructor �Remembers the first time he flew in the plane (00:19:20)  Had one square mile of black top; going in triangle formation  Had to signal in order to communicate to the pilot (instructor)  Thought that he wasn’t going to get sick; instantaneously after that thought, Helmink became sick  Had to clean the plane after landing o Very common occurrence; had a friend who got sick every time o Friend had gotten through due to his grades in high school Helmink really enjoyed the training; had fabulous ground instructors (00:21:37)  Fly during the morning, ground training in the afternoon (calisthenics)  Reverse every other day  All instructors were enthusiastic and knowledgeable Read manuals usually after supper, had much to study; would talk with the other cadets Next was basic flight training with the Low Wing Ball T: big canopy, two pilots, bigger plane (00:22:40)  A flight inspector came in, gave instructor the permission to show the plane  Very low belly, “basement;” had runners as the floor; had many instruments  Learned to use the instruments, night flying, cross-country, formations  Eventually flew solo  In Bakersfield, California; Minter’s Field (non-civilian airport); all pilots Army Air Corp.  A lot more military approach, like military school In Tucson and Santa Ana, didn’t go off base much (L.A.) (00:24:55) Advance Flight Training (00:25:40) Early February ’44; Advanced Flight Training; Douglas, Arizona (south of Tucson) �Learned to fly twin-engine airplane; Cessna UC-78, “Bamboo Bomber”  Made of metal tubing with canopy covering; good planes  More instrument and cross-country flying  Instrument tests, required once a year A squadron leader (Captain Renny) tested him; flew in an AT-9  AT-9: engines ahead of the cockpit, very streamline, all metal Passed the test, given a white card, “released from instrument flying”  The only time he flew that plane Helmink never got in an accident (00:28:00) UC-78 landing gear, after being tucked in, sticks out about half a wheel Can always hear communication between the tower and the crew (to get everyone used to the lingo) over a com Heard over the com that a plane was having trouble with their landing gear (jammed) Everyone could see what was going on On that particular plane had to crank the lever many times to pull in the landing gear (crank 1300 times) Some planes had wooden propellers and others steel; this particular plane had wooden or “twin-bested cubs” Had to glide all the way down; turned off the engine and leveled it off with the starters, propellers horizontal; instructor had managed to land the plane without a scratch Assignments (00:30:00) Assigned to a combat unit after advanced flight training Had a large graduation class (500 students); in a large auditorium where assignments were being handed out Some men were lucky to get B-25 planes; B-25’s better to fly than B-17’s Transition school: learned to fly that plane �Some men were held back to be instructors for B-25’s; had never flown one before Helmink was going to be assigned this with seven other men, but Helmink’s name was then called over the com Handed new orders to go to Louisville, Kentucky (00:31:45)  Troop-Tick Carrier Command  Got to go home for the first time; delay in route (went back to Holland)  Remembers a woman behind him saying, “I wonder why that guy isn’t over in the war fightin’.” Laughed about it Went back to Louisville had different orders Syracuse, New York (00:33:00) Had DC-3’s there or C-47’s; learned to fly them; transition  1,000 horsepower engines, weighed about 35,000lbs. (loaded)  Started to learned low level flying; flew over Lake Placid  Being trained to fly in Burma (didn’t know this at the time)  Dropping logs over clearings, “bundle dropping”  Would hope to hit a target on the ground  Night flying, formation, single engine A lot of hills there, “lawn-mowing” There for a couple of months Orders back to Louisville, Kentucky (00:34:50) Three plants producing C-46’s there (Stannerford), Helmink was going to fly them Tested out by six test pilots for the C-46’s; quite a few hours of flying with them to be checked out C-46 vs. C-47 (planes rated by horsepower)  C-46 had two Pratt-Whitney Engines with 2000 horsepower each � C-47 had only 1050 horsepower engines  C-46, fully loaded, weighed 50,000lbs; could carry 10,000-12,000lbs.  C-47 could carry only 6,000-7,000lbs.  109ft. wingspans  Built well, reliable engines Already in the service for two years, didn’t think that the war would end before they finished training (00:36:25) Fourth Combat Cargo Group formed when Helmink arrived in New York  Four squadrons (13th, 14th, 15th, 16th)  Put in the 14th Squadron  Ended up in Louisville to finish training Picked up 100 new planes in Fort Wayne, Indiana; Army Air Force Base Got a brand new C-46 with only four hours on it Went to Florida Had a co-pilot, radio operator, crew chief (very important, stayed with the plane)  Would get used to certain people and ask for them to be assigned to the plane  Before Fort Wayne, had a guy picked out for crew chief  The crew chief then had someone picked out for radio operator  Never knew who would be co-pilot, varied often o Co-pilot would sometimes take over pilot duties Spent three days at West Palm Beach (00:38:40)  Learned how to ditch; getting out life rafts, etc. � Had the whole crew training, even the ground crew (18 people) The crew sat in seats that were on the side; removed the seats when arriving overseas  Never had any paratroopers, so didn’t put the seats back in Had to get creative: would make bunks from what they had; pile bags, etc. Karachi, India After the third day of training, took off to Puerto Rico (00:39:50) Had a sealed letter that they could open one hour into the flight, their orders Being sent to Karachi, India  Puerto Rico, flew down to the West Indies  Flew west to Brazil (Belem), landed; passed the equator and the Amazon mouth  Spent a night in each place  Natal, Brazil, spent an extra day there; 25 hour inspection o Crew chief and ground crew very busy o Went into the town, a lot of jungle  Flew to Ascension Island in the middle of the Atlantic o Did all their own navigation; navigator used a sextant when flying to the island o C-47 had a bubble over the top, so the navigator could use the sun o Would chart a heading often, did an arc of 40 miles to reach the island  Had another plane following them, didn’t have a navigator of their own  From Ascension Island to Accra, Ghana (Gold Coast at the time); the navigator finally got to sleep (only did ocean hops, sent back to US when arriving in Karachi)  Flew across South Central Sahara, stayed there for a night  From there to Khartoum, Sudan �o People in Accra were much darker than the people in South Central Sahara, more Arabian  Flew around Aden (southern Arabia); couldn’t fly through it because of the danger of headhunters  Arrived at Karachi; Thanksgiving Day, 1944  Total of 13 days flying Wasn’t feeling tired, was an adventure; everything was a big adventure for him (00:44:45)  Didn’t have as many connections to worry about as other men did Got a full-fledged turkey dinner when they arrived on base, excellent meal Took off after being fuel up and flew to Selet, India  Northeast corner of India, near the foothills of the Himalayas, next to Burma Army Corp. of Engineers had set up a camp with revetments (a large circular wall on top of black top) for the planes; protection from bombings Called it “Skunk Hollow;” had a lot of hills and strange trees, a lot of wildlife, too  Tigers, monkeys, panthers, snakes, mongooses  Had cement-floor buildings with bamboo structures with thatch roofs; had excellent carpenters There for a week, then went back to Karachi (00:48:10) Flew a couple flights out of Selet; Imphal, where Merrill’s Marauders had established an area after fighting of the Japanese  Engineers had started to put down landing strips  Carrying supplies Went back to Karachi; assigned to a British airbase (00:48:50) Testing gliders; wooden gliders on C-46’s � Looks like a B-26: round fuselage, high mid-wing, tricycle gear; everything glued together  Loaded the glider with 9000lbs. of lead shot in little bags; would attach to Helmink’s plane  Made nine tows  A pedestal was bolted down to the back; engines had wire sensors on each spark plug to check temperature, etc.  The glider cuts loose on its own Got to fly in the glider once, had an Australian test-pilot who usually flew it (00:50:25) Were being towed behind a Halifax 4-engine Bomber; quite a scary ride Remembers the rope being let go (nylon rope, very stretchy); pilot let the spoilers loose and they began to drop rapidly; aiming to land in the south corner of the field Landed in the dirt and stopped after rolling for 250ft; amazing Very effective for Europe during D-Day Had excellent living conditions; barracks, large dining hall (Indian food), an officer’s club; preferred to eat at a Chinese restaurant (00:53:05) There for about a month; went back to India, south of Selet, on the Indian-Burmese border  Called Argitella  Made a flew flights from there to Burma  P-38’s stationed there, one of the guys had a beautiful dragon painted on the side of his Chittagong (00:55:05) Shortly after that flew to a place called Chittagong; rest of his flight out of there Did a lot of cargo transportation; describes his flights to Bhamo Burma was all jungle; the British would make sure to make level landing fields (bulldoze and cut the jungle down) Had to be careful with ammunition; would fly over a range of mountains they called the “Little Hump” and make sure they didn’t get tail heavy �Had to land on the dirt landing strips; Mandalay had a landing strip laid with red bricks  British had extended it with tarpaper  Japanese had 105mm canons, always out of range (British also had the same guns) Had good facilities in Chittagong; floors were woven bamboo instead of cement (00:58:35) Very hot and humid climate Took shots for malaria; atabrine in the water  Side effects: skin would begin turning yellow Food wasn’t very good; limited memories of eating there  “Milk runs” There for six months; about 480 missions (four times a day) (01:01:25) Didn’t assist in loading and unloading; would watch to make sure they didn’t load too much  One time, was loading thin sheets of iron; the tires on his plane were close to blowing, had to stop them; was going to be a tough flight  Very close call with lifting; asked for the whole strip when landing One fellow had a fire in one of his engines, burned through the wing; lost the whole crew in the crash (01:05:00) Didn’t lose very many planes Total of 100 planes, had 85 crews in the air everyday; other 15 for maintenance, etc. Had the same plane for six months Went up to Myitkyina where they ran a 24 hour clock; could be scheduled to go out at 2AM Landed in a number of fields around Kunming, China The weather was atrocious there, monsoon season  Would take the southern root over the mountains and north going back � “Saddlebacks” o Extreme updrafts and downdrafts that lasted about 5-8 minutes worth of flight o Large buildup of ice on the leads o Lightening, static First time Helmink flew this flight, he was a pilot; met another pilot from Holland, Michigan, Bud Van Lier (01:10:25)  Gave pointers to Helmink; 17,000ft. peak It was scary every time he flew through the rough weather; “scud weather” (01:11:40) Had good fields in Kunming; started with thousands of people carrying large rocks that decreased in size, put sand over it and flattened it Never stayed overnight in Kunming Usually carried 21 barrels of 100-octane gas; aviation fuel, stockpiled Communists were beginning to fight; planning to bomb, heard the sirens going off and they would get out of there as quick as possible (Kunming) Didn’t see any of the American Combat Air Forces (01:14:00)  Protected overhead by British Hurricane fighters; would fly 33,000ft overhead  Had a radio tuned specifically to them  Never saw any Japanese planes except for one time at night Moving Gurkha troops from one field to another; secret night-mission Would turn on their landing lights on as they landed, line up with the person with a weapons carrier’s light Helmink was flying 40,000ft and a plane below him was calling in when the airfield was lit up with explosions The fellow flying below him was a Betty Bomber (a Japanese bomber) which is the same size as a C-47 Had dropped anti-personnel bombs �The Japanese bomber pilot spoke perfect English, couldn’t tell Had formation lights to identify planes (blue color) Had a close call in Chittagong with a runaway propeller (01:17:40)  Curtiss Electric Propellers: four-bladed, 14ft. diameter, pitch controlled electrically  Sometimes the propellers would go into really high pitch; over speed  Was taking off nicely, when he was suddenly turning because of the high pitch  Had to hit the toggle switch to stop it  Was having a hard time stopping, ran into the mud of the unfinished airfield November 1945, Helmink and his squadron were being taken back to Chabwa (India) (01:19:40)  Had blown up the planes instead of taking them back  150lb bombs Arrived in Chabwa in the afternoon; next morning go on a DC-4 (4-engine passenger airplane) and flown to Karachi Put on a general-class troop ship; first day to see Mt. Everest Took about 28 days to make it back; went through the Suez Canal Ran into a North Atlantic storm, 40ft. waves; very harrowing Arrived in New York Harbor on Christmas Eve Taken over to Fort Dix where they got rid of their foot lockers and bags Took a cab to Times Square with some guys and ate three meals that night (couldn’t eat any of the good food on the ship due to the weather)  Once hit a monster wave that made them loose control of the gutter; could hear all of the dishes come crashing down in the galley  Heard of a troop ship leaving from South Hampton turned back after losing six sailors Next day, reported to Fort Dix (01:24:45) � Went to Camp Atterbury, Indiana, by train Arrived home on New Year’s Day; remembers coming into Holland Station His folks and girlfriend knew he was coming back Remembers thinking how everything was like a dream when seeing a crossroads of railroads Got a job in GM, tool-and-die Felt like he didn’t change much; talked with a lot of the other guys about what they were going to do afterward (01:26:35)  Helmink seriously considered staying in the Air Corp. so he could fly more planes  Got offers from 25 different airlines to fly; other pilots spoke of troubles with being furloughed  Got a letter about joining TWA; took some tests; said he would be hired and have a seat in six months o Had to move if he wanted the job; had to speak to his wife o She didn’t want to go anywhere  Given more offers for corporate flying  Got to fly some jets over the years; flew all the time  Flown, at least, 28 different planes � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Helmink, Henry Lee (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Helmink, Henry Lee Description An account of the resource Henry Lee Helmink of Holland, Michigan, enlisted in 1943 and served during World War II as a pilot in the Army Air Corps. He flew C-46 and C-47 transport aircraft between bases in Burma, India and China, and would drop supplies to troops in the field. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-04-15 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HelminkHL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/21065f2855a5aae3d635095785bb3eac.jpg 3bed30e5ee48df3ea21b729a06b0693c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HelmkerJan Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Helmker, Jan Description An account of the resource Jan Helmker Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89f801bf8ba79390a54767ec7bf7edef.pdf d53ab86fb052dd8a0916d70425b78bac PDF Text Text The Women, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Department presents: Help us celebrate feminist history at GVSU with a WGS coloring book! Bring your ideas for brainstorming and creativity with you and we'll see you then! Food provided UQIJ UJJJJU � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Sexuality and Gender Flyers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Rainbow Resource Center Women and Gender Studies Department Women's Commission Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity Description An account of the resource Digitized posters, flyers, event notices, and other materials relating to gender expression and sexuality at Grand Valley State University, with materials spanning from 1974 to 2019. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1974/2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digitized from collections at the Rainbow Resource Center (formerly the Milton E. Ford LGBT Resource Center), Women and Gender Studies Department, Women's Commission, and Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Gender identity Gender expression Sexual orientation Women's studies Queer theory Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09_SGF_WGS_2016_Help-Design-WGS-Coloring-Book.pdf Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Women, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-03-30 Title A name given to the resource Help Design a WGS Coloring Book Description An account of the resource Poster inviting people to celebrate feminist history by creating a coloring book. Subject The topic of the resource Women's studies Coloring books Feminism Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Women, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Department Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9124cb9fc6979293fafc80561d1216ba.jpg 0dd1d4d1e16107a3352ecf22eff4eac8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HeltonVirginia_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970 Title A name given to the resource Helton, Virginia Description An account of the resource Virginia Helton, Theatre Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1970s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/58e6dd9cb1f78e9581a27d8071dded16.jpg 1a3f759975122307f8dc3dd5ba22090a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HeltonVirginia_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Helton, Virginia Description An account of the resource Virginia Helton, Theatre Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4e6f7fd817de0e748f30c0ee34532701.jpg 7fd27d0748c19f4adbd0ba07c2560f50 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PR9199.3.G615 H46 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0371 Title A name given to the resource Hemming, the Adventurer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sacker, Amy M. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Hemming, The Adventurer, by Theodore Roberts, published by L.C. Page and Company, 1904. Unsigned cover attributed to Sacker. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1904 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b93df45f49e67016c8c33eb84af1fbd7.m4v 76facd1033edb1c2f24d695ee6f09459 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4cd93827bbd5518489d73ba695da3a67.pdf 5aff5e1824b7cc5aadf8febcb9e2c121 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Dale Hemphill Length: 18:47 (00:05) Background Information     Dale was born in Michigan in 1942 and grew up in Niles, MI His parents got divorced when he was 8 years old and he stayed with his father until he was 10 years old He then moved to Indiana with his mother and enlisted in the Navy in 1960 He signed on for 3 years of active duty and 3 years in the Reserves (2:05) Training  Dale was sent to San Diego, California for boot camp where he became part of the drill team and had a great time  He was then sent to a different base in California where he worked as an aviation store keeper (5:10) Alaska  Dale was sent to Alaska where he went through typing courses and later began administrative work  He was also operating heavy duty equipment, and tracking flight information  Dale felt that he was pretty lucky because he never got sent to Vietnam  His whole time in the Navy he was never actually stationed on a ship (10:00) After Service  Dale now designs clothes and other merchandise that show pride in America  He is friends with the man who designed the current version of the American flag  Dale receives many flags from service men overseas that they have signed for him  He has been working on the flag project since 1979, titled Flags Across America  Dale also has his own non-profit organization called Spirit of America  He often speaks at conventions, American Legion, takes part in parades and other clubs for veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hemphill, Dale (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hemphill, Dale Description An account of the resource Dale Hemphill was born in Michigan in 1942 and later moved to Indiana with his mother when he was 10 years old. In 1960 he enlisted in the Navy for 3 years of active duty and 3 years in the Reserves. Dale went through boot camp in San Diego, California and was then stationed in California and later Alaska. After his time in the service he began working on a project called Flags Across America n 1979. He also started a non-profit organization called Spirit of America and he often travels around the country working on his project and organization. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bodnar, Christine (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HemphillD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/40ee45d4b98d5bd09b354c7af84743b8.mp4 290d8991d7b840badb5c9132427caa7e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ec0cd24b539d9181afda52006f097676.pdf 7c8449b2586fb6c2209993f94808864b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Richard Hency Total Time – (01:58:15) Background      He was born in Battle Creek, Michigan on July 17, 1949 (00:23) o He grew up in Battle Creek and graduated from Battle Creek Central High School His father was a fabricator and his mother was a waitress until she was forty – she went back to school and became a schoolteacher (00:36) He has an older sister and two half brothers He graduated from high school in 1968 (01:07) o At this point he knew quite a bit about the Vietnam War  He was taking a course in high school that subscribed to Newsweek – they had to read it every week (01:34)  While he did not know what the real issues were, he was well aware of the current events of the situation  He did not know anyone that was in the war (02:16)  The course was only during his senior year of high school Once he graduated from high school, he went to work where his father worked (03:06) o He worked there from June – April of 1969 Enlistment/Training – (03:28)      He had received his draft notice in November of 1968 o He took his physical when he received his notice (03:42) o His physical was at Fort Wayne in Detroit, Michigan When he went for the physical it did not seem like they were doing much (04:01) o There were some that tried to beat the system – they would act weird, do drugs and then go to the physical, etc. (04:13) He went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for Basic Training (05:03) o The soldiers took a bus (05:10) o He traveled with some of his friends from school He had no idea what he was getting into when he went to Basic Training In the first few days the soldiers receive fatigues and he had to do KP duty (Kitchen Police) (06:20) �                  o His uncles had told him that KP duty is for soldiers that had done something wrong After a few days of processing he was assigned for training (07:54) The training consists of learning how to stand, dress right, line up properly, how to have your uniform look, and other basic things There was some physical training – running, obstacle courses, etc. (08:45) There was one Drill instructor that had been to Vietnam and every time the soldiers saw him he had a freshly pressed shirt (09:19) Discipline was highly stressed o If you were not talked to, you do not talk (10:08) Many of the men in basic training were from Michigan (10:48) o There were not too many from the east or the west of the United States There were some soldiers in basic training that could not salute, do a right turn, could not keep up, etc. (11:13) o They almost could not tell right from left Basic Training lasted for eight weeks (12:00) At the end of Basic Training the Drill instructor calls your name and tells you where your AIT (Advanced Individual Training) training would be o Soldiers knew that if they were sent to Fort Polk, they were going to be in the infantry (12:29) He was flown to Fort Polk, Louisiana (12:40) o He landed during the night o The soldiers were loaded into trailers that looked like they would be used for cattle – they were sent to their base (12:48) AIT training had a lot more physical training o There was a survival exercise where a team of soldiers were forced to find their way to a certain place during the night (13:18) There was a lot more training with weapons o They trained with a .45 Caliber handgun (13:55)  They learned how to use it, clean it, tear it apart and put it back together o They trained on the M16 as well o He did not train on grenade launchers (14:16) Most of the Drill instructors were back from Vietnam o They were trying their hardest to make the soldiers as tough as they could be (14:48) o They knew what Vietnam was like o They would not actually tell the soldiers about their experiences (15:01)  They would sometimes say “you could get killed for that” There were no Vietnamese villages set up for training (15:26) On one night patrol he had to go through a swamp – that was the closest activity to Vietnam that he experienced AIT training was eight weeks long (16:48) After AIT, he was sent home on leave for a week After leave, he went to Fort Lewis, Washington (17:05) � o He was there until he received his orders for Vietnam During his week in Washington he did some sight seeing, drank, played cards, etc. Active Duty – Part I – First Experiences – (17:39)            He actually leaves for Vietnam in September of 1969 (17:43) o En route to Vietnam, they landed and fueled in Alaska before flying straight to Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam o When he was 10,000 feet in the air he could see a big smoke cloud coming up (18:21) When he landed, his first impression was that Vietnam was hot and a lot was going on (19:00) When he got off the plane he was assigned to some group (19:33) o He remembers pulling Guard Duty on an elevated bunker – he had a weapon and ammo o He quickly realized that he had nothing to worry about while at Cam Ranh Bay He was around Cam Ranh Bay for only three or four days before being assigned to his unit (20:50) o He was assigned to the Americal Division (20:57) After he was assigned he was sent to Chu Lai, Vietnam for orientation (21:14) o He was sent on a chopper from Cam Ranh Bay to Chu Lai (21:22)  It was a Chinook The orientation consisted of the rules – how to treat Vietnamese citizens, how to understand them, what to watch for, what to not do, and other things like that (21:54) At this point he was wearing his lightweight jungle fatigues He is then sent to Duc Pho, Vietnam (Duc Pho is a rural district of Quang Ngai) where he is loaded up with his M16 (23:02) o He is also given four claymore mines, six or eight hand grenades, a couple of bandoliers of M60 ammunition, and a steel pot o He felt like he was about to blow up at any minute (23:40) He was taken out to a firebase on a resupply Chinook (24:13) o The Chinook had a big hole in the bottom because it was a resupply chopper o He thought he was going to die before he got to the firebase When he arrived at the firebase he was taken to his company that was out in the field (24:44) o The company took most of the claymore mines, hand grenades and ammo off of him o He was then assigned a buddy (25:20) o They were in an open area during his first night (25:26) On his first night he received the midnight – 6 A.M. Guard Duty (25:43) �            o He remembers sitting there and seeing movement that turned out to be bushes At that time the firebase had four infantry companies operating around it (27:08) o Three would be sent into the field for thirty days (27:21) o There was a rotation His company set up an ambush against the enemy o They did a good job (28:12) o It was the only contact he had the with the enemy during his first time in the field o During the ambush, the Americans and Vietnamese soldiers did not know where each other were (29:08) The company had roughly 120 men in it when he joined (29:29) There was not a lot of effort made by the men in the company to meet the new guys o They are given the label FNG (Fucking New Guy) (29:46) o The other soldiers do not want to spend time getting to know the FNG‟s because they are more apt to get wounded or killed (30:02) o The new guys watch the older guys to know what to do Most of the time they operated as a company (30:42) o They had a mortar platoon that would set up the mortars at night o The rest were rifle platoons (31:00)  They all had at least one M16 The country that they were operating in was primarily mountainous (31:26) They had a Kit Carson Scout (Vietnamese scout) o He believed that the scouts were great (31:58) o They could communicate with villages o In one village they found out that there was a man eating tiger nearby (32:16) o The scout provided information – some military and some local information When he goes in for his first stand down, he returns to the same firebase that he first landed on (32:58) o The duties were to supply a perimeter of fire comprised of many infantry men (33:22) o The men would receive their care packages while on stand down o They were able to eat out of a mess hall o There was an artillery battery on the base (34:33) The firebase never received very much attention from the enemy (35:01) o There was one time, when he was not there, when the firebase had a few rounds dropped on it The time on the firebase was relatively safe (35:56) o They were still surrounded by the enemy When the soldiers were not on perimeter duty they could do almost anything they wanted (36:30) o On rare occasions they played movies There tended to be two types of soldiers in the infantry: the juicers and the heads �  o The juicers were the guys that drank warm beer (37:13) o The heads were the guys that smoked cheap dope (37:18)  The men never smoked when they were in the field One time he was high and he started shooting a Quad .50 just to watch the tracers (38:09) When in the field it was not uncommon to pitch a tent at night and to be in a cloud or above a cloud the next morning Active Duty – Part II – Terrain/Search & Destroy – (39:38)         His company never had any prolonged firefights (39:47) o One time they flew into a hot LZ and when they arrived, everything had settled down o The fighting usually occurred when the enemy decided they wanted to shoot (41:15) o He is still scared of “thump” sounds when he hears them There was one night when he went on a recon operation and they walked into an NVA (North Vietnamese Army) company (43:12) o He had to call artillery strikes in that were close enough to hit the enemy but not him themselves o They would not leave their position until daylight (43:43) The terrain was primarily jungle (44:14) o Most of the time it was double and triple canopy o They could never walk on existing trails  They used machetes to clear trails (44:49)  It was rarely open enough in the jungle to walk o When the terrain was open, they never even walked on the dikes (45:05) o They would walk through the rice paddies rather than along the dikes– it was better to get a leech on you than have your foot blown off In another incident they called in napalm on the enemy (46:01) o As soon as they made contact with the enemy, they fought and the NVA disappeared o When they went back in after the napalm, they did not find any bodies (46:27) o The NVA probably went underground or “got the hell out because they knew what was coming” The enemy had a lot of bunkers, tunnels and spider holes (46:50) o They would sometimes find them His company never had anyone die from a booby trap (47:48) o He saw a hooch booby trapped For a while he had a lot of contact with civilians while he was there (48:35) At one point he was instructed that they were operating in a search and destroy o This meant that anyone that the soldiers came in contact with was considered the enemy (49:02) �    o They moved people to a refugee camp and burned their homes With some of the locals, they could be “your friend during the day and your enemy at night” (50:15) They would sometimes find models of their firebases in Vietnamese villages o The only way they could do this is by having someone on the firebase (50:44) There were some Vietnamese that would work on the firebase during the day They saw some ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) (51:36) o During the Vietnamization, some of the Vietnamese soldiers were good but many were not  With the bad soldiers they thought, “Someone was going to shoot „em. Might be us!” (52:22)  He did not trust the ARVN soldiers Active Duty – Part III – Refugee Camps/Cambodia – (53:08)     He was in Duc Pho, Vietnam for some of his stand down time (53:18) o He would have pull Guard Duty, but he remembers walking down the street with some other soldiers – they all had uniforms on that were not there own  They would be resupplied with uniforms that had other soldiers names on them He was jealous of the men that did not have to serve in the field (55:19) At a certain point in his tour he was working to clear out civilian populations and bringing them to refugee camps (56:01) o At this point he is allowed to shoot whatever he saw o He was part of the physical removal of people from the villages – they would also have to burn their villages (56:14) o After a while, the soldiers get numb and detached from their assignments o He knows that the people were not happy with what they were doing (56:47) o The American government decided that the only way to manage the areas was to eliminate the friendly‟s so that the only people out there were the enemy (57:12)  “The bad guys could no longer hide with the friendlies” o There were many enemies (57:55)  Most of the enemies were Viet Cong (58:12)  There were some NVA in the are  The Viet Cong were just in rags or normal civilian clothes (58:42)  Their goal was to cause as many casualties through booby traps, mortars, mines, trip wires, snipers, quick ambushes, etc. Within his own unit, there were not many casualties (59:54) o Things eventually got more busy �           A few months into his time in the field, his company changed commanders (01:00:22) o The first commander was easy-going and seemed to care about his company  He carried the radio for his commander (01:00:39) o There was one time during a monsoon when his M16 rusted – his commander told him that he needed to clean his rifle (01:01:18) o The soldiers did not get into a lot of trouble with the first commander (01:02:01) When he was the radio operator he was in contact with the other battalions (01:02:06) o He would call in artillery, air strikes, medevacs, etc. o A lot of the time his commander took the phone to make the calls (01:02:22) o There was only one radio for everyone o The platoon radios would not call in air strikes (01:03:08) The first commander rotated out The second commander was, in his opinion, overweight (01:03:47) o He was Airborne Ranger and he was commanding a drafted “grunt company” He did not get along with his second commander When they were on the firebase one night getting high, they were pretending to be chopper pilots (01:04:27) o He and a couple of guys were making jokes, but the battalion thought they were serious – he got in trouble and no longer carried the radio On one evening the commander wanted the men to go to a mountain range and fight the NVA (01:05:31) o It was not an actual order – the commander just wanted recognition o The soldiers told them that if they go, the commander may not come back (01:06:00) o The commander eventually left There was a tension at that stage of the war between some commanders and his men Near the end of the war he was carrying an M16 – his helmet had a peace sign on it (01:07:00) o He had decided that the war itself had no real objective (01:07:23) o After three or four months it no longer was about winning the war, but rather, about going home (01:07:53)  That mentality changes the morale of the soldiers  He does not remember any soldier that went to the field that believed they were not going to fight (01:08:19)  After some time, there were a lot of soldiers that no longer wanted to fight (01:08:25) They tried to maintain roughly 125 men in the company at all times (01:09:18) There was one time in his experiences where the soldiers were flown to the Cambodian border before they were supposed to be there �o They were put on choppers and flown to Cambodia (01:10:07) o The soldiers got off the choppers and were going to take out an NVA camp (01:10:24)  When they arrived, the fires were still warm o They found caches, weapons, food (01:10:45)  There was a lot of supplies and other things that the NVA needed o They thought they were being set up for an ambush Active Duty – Part IV – R&R/Injuries/Last Experiences of Service – (01:11:37)     While he was in Vietnam he received an R&R (Rest and Relaxation) – He went to Bangkok, Thailand (01:11:44) o He landed in Bangkok and when he got off the plane, there were many men that had cars that wanted to be a chauffer for the week  He and a few other soldiers picked a guy that had a ‟57 Chevy (01:12:14)  He bought some gold plated silverware from Bangkok o It was not very difficult getting back on the plane to go to Vietnam (01:12:56)  He knew that he did not want to live in Bangkok o He took the R&R roughly six months into his tour (01:13:27) The first time he was wounded in Vietnam it was determined that he was injured by friendly fire o The medic was going to put him in for a Purple Heart – the captain decided that it was friendly fire (01:13:51) He was injured for a second time on a light day patrol o One of his captains decided that they needed to go on patrol in Horseshoe Valley (01:14:40) o They were walking in the open on dry rice paddy field and were opened up on (01:15:16)  The Americans returned fire o The NVA try to take out the radio and M16 as quick as possible (01:15:46)  One of his friends took cover behind a tall dike  He was near the M60 gunner, feeding him ammo  Something blew up in front of them and knocked him out (01:16:14)  When he realized he had been hit he stood up and screamed (01:16:36) Because they were so close to the firebase, the commander's chopper came out and picked him up o He was flown to Chu Lai, Vietnam and then over to Saigon, Vietnam (01:17:35) �       He rode a bus into Saigon He stayed at the hospital for a couple of weeks while they took the shrapnel out (01:17:59) o He then flew to Tokyo, Japan to be sewn up  He had been hit in the arm (01:18:32)  He still has shrapnel near his heart (01:18:41)  He had shrapnel in both shoulders, on his neck, in between his eyes, etc.  He was lucky that he was not killed  When he was injured he only had 63 days remaining in Vietnam (01:19:46) When he first arrived in Chu Lai, everyone was “just getting after it” (01:20:06) o They tore his clothes off, found where the wounds were, put an IV in, etc. o He was conscious for the whole thing (01:20:30) o He does not remember exactly how he got from Chu Lai to Saigon When he woke up from his operation in Saigon, he was in a large ward (01:20:57) o He did not even know if he had a hand because there was a huge wrapping of gauze over his hand o The nurses were great (01:21:23) o He was treated very well He walked rear security at one point – his job was to make sure that nothing snuck up behind his company (01:22:19) o One day they were going from grassland to double canopy o The company went into the woods and he heard something in the elephant grass (01:22:57) o He stopped and the voices got louder  He raised his weapon ready to fire on anything that would come out of the grass  It was the Viet Cong (01:23:32)  He had to shoot the Viet Cong soldier (01:23:51)  In the moment you do what you have to do, but later it is more difficult to deal with  He was only 10-15 feet from the Viet Cong soldier (01:24:43)  The FNG that he was with sat and watched the whole thing happen (01:25:30) The funniest thing he ever saw in Vietnam was when he and his best friend were on the side of a mountain o A chopper came in to drop off sundries when his friend went running down to pick them up (01:26:56) o The blade from the chopper hit his helmet and shot it off (01:27:01) There was another time when they killed a green snake called a “two-step snake” o If you got bit by it, you had about two steps before you were falling on the ground (01:27:38)  You would eventually die from it (01:27:43) �           o The head of the snake was cut off with a machete – one soldier tied the head onto his M16 – the snake head began to smell really bad The ethnic makeup of his company was similar to his hometown of Battle Creek, Michigan (01:29:01) o It was 30-40% black He was made an honorary member of the “brothers” – they gave him a nylon bracelet to show that he was virtually adopted into their group (01:29:40) o The bracelet was cut off at Chu Lai There were some men that would try to come up with reasons to get out of the field (01:30:27) o He did not have a lot of respect for those people (01:30:35) o Intelligently, they were weighing their odds  The black soldiers did that more often than the white soldiers (01:30:58) The black men that were in the field were tough fighters (01:31:27) Heroin had not reached his area before he had left (01:31:46) o If there was, he did not know of it o There was a lot of liquid speed  It was popular and highly addictive (01:32:09)  He became addicted to it He was in Japan for roughly one month (01:32:39) o He had been wounded on July 24 o He spent two weeks in Saigon before Japan (01:32:57) He remembers the flight out of Japan being on a cargo plane (01:33:32) o The soldiers sat on jump seats (01:33:46) He received a leave – one of his brothers picked him up from Naval Station Great Lakes in Illinois (01:34:20) o He went back to Battle Creek (01:34:34) o It was the first time that he realized that the person in the car was not the person that went to Vietnam (01:34:51)  It was a weird experience  At one point he thought that the blood transfusions could have changed him (01:35:08)  There was debriefing time and you are supposed to be the same person When he went to Fort Benning, Georgia he started doing drugs to deal with his problems (01:35:37) o He was at Fort Benning to finish out his time in the service o He had to complete his two year commitment (01:35:51) There was one time when they were given M14‟s with bayonets – they were practicing crowd control o He thought, “Do they seriously think that we will lunge at people with these bayonets? I would probably give them my bayonet.” (01:36:22) o He was that bitter about everything (01:36:39)  He believed that the soldiers were simply pawns He spent six months at Fort Benning (01:37:14) �   o He was left alone for the majority of his time there o He bought a Triumph Spitfire – he and his friends would go to Columbus, Georgia (01:37:30)  They would get messed up on hash and LSD  When they would return to their barracks there would be no check in and no one cared (01:37:48)  There was a roll call every morning There was one time where he had to participate in a forced march (01:38:38) o He contracted his second experience of malaria o He was doing a lot of drugs – this forced him to not eat and sleep (01:39:04) o Halfway through the march, he passed out When he was in Vietnam he was given anti-Malaria drugs (01:39:35) o The mosquitoes were unbelievable o They had very good repellent but the soldiers could not hit every spot on their body (01:40:00) o Fortunately he contracted the malaria that is not lethal The soldiers had pills that helped them deal with the sweat and heat, water pills, malaria pills (01:40:46) After the Service – PTSD – (01:41:36)     After he finished at Fort Benning, he knew that he was not the same kid he was when he went into the military (01:41:41) o He did not do drugs before he went to Vietnam o A lot of people did not know how to deal with him being different – he did not either o He wore an Army coat that he got from Salvation Army (01:42:08)  There was a patch on it that said, “Don‟t tread on me”  He was bitter He started doing drugs and go to the point where he was no longer eligible for unemployment (01:42:50) o He started being a drug dealer o He would make money by selling and trading (01:43:09) There was a whole year where he was high every single day o It was an escape (01:43:37) Some of the other guys that had gone to Vietnam were dealing with the same issues (01:43:51) o They would go to his house and preach to him (01:44:19)  They would aggressively preach  He listened to them (01:44:33) o They were becoming part of the Jehovah‟s Witness group  He did not become a Jehovah‟s Witness but he started going to church and the bible studies (01:44:55) �            He would go to the drug houses where he used to sell with a bible and try to convert the people  He was zealous about his new faith (01:45:23) At that point he had tried to go back to the fabricator work (01:46:03) He eventually got a job delivering shop rags for a cleaning company (01:46:39) He then got a job at a gas station o He would pump gas, wash windows, try to sell oil changes, etc. o The owner had told him that he would get a certain commission (01:47:26)  He never got the commission Once he left the job at the gas station he became a milk man o It was 1974 when he took the job (01:48:20) o He would go door to door and his customers loved him o He started with the lowest route and ended, after thirty years, with the largest route (01:48:58) Holsum Bread Company recruited him to go and work for them (01:49:06) o He was made a supervisor o He thought that he no longer struggled with the issues from Vietnam (01:49:23) He walked away from his job, wife, home, and happy life It took him 35 years to accept that he might have an issue with PTSD (PostTraumatic Stress Disorder) (01:50:18) He joined the Proud Veterans Motorcycle Club (01:50:33) o They were all veterans – some were from Vietnam o They asked him how much money he was getting from the VA for his PTSD (01:50:43)  He would tell them that he did not have PTSD o He called the VA and talked to five social workers and in one day he was considered a candidate for someone with PTSD (01:51:22) o That was the beginning of his recovery o He was with a group of veterans that were proud of being veterans o He was being directed in the right direction confront the effects of his experiences (01:52:18) He thinks it is great that a veteran does not have to waste 35 years of their life trying to reconcile who they are with their experiences (01:54:37) o The VA has stepped up to their responsibility of treating veterans o The VA is taking responsibility for what is happening to soldiers when they serve the country (01:55:56) He has had numerous things diagnosed that he did not know he had Soldiers today are volunteer (01:56:56) o When soldiers from Iraqi or Afghanistan thank him he tells them that they are the real heroes. They were not drafted, but instead, new of the dangers and volunteered (01:57:11) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hency, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hency, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Hency was born in Battle Creek, Michigan in 1949. He received his draft notice in November of 1968 and was then sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for eight weeks of Basic Training before eight weeks of AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Fort Polk, Louisiana. Richard flew into Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam in September of 1969. He was initially sent to Duc Pho, Vietnam until he met up with his field unit that primarily operated in jungle terrain. In a Search & Destroy mission, every Vietnamese person that they came into contact with was moved to a refugee camp. Richard was, near the end of his experiences in Vietnam, flown and dropped off inside of Cambodia before American forces were supposed to be there. Richard was wounded on two separate occasions in Vietnam. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-11-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HencyR1464V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives