381 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/00f43100906ed6fb2f99dba91a3e6194.jpg e2367ea6fcd6461331a680a79334c96f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_C061-0043 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1962-05-05 Title A name given to the resource Hawaiian Luau Celebration at MSU Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph featuring a tropical Hawaiian Luau celebration gathering inside a gymnasium or auditorium on the campus of Michigan State University on May 5, 1962. In the photograph, a room full of dining guests can be seen wearing summer holiday clothing and seated among palm trees and bleachers indoors. Photograph by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan State University East Lansing (Mich.) Luaus Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8e3d1970157ba6ee20fc5eebfa64cc3.jpg bfdc9d85aece9ea68b8928272dffc380 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_C054-0003 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1962-05-04 Title A name given to the resource Hawaiian Luau Performance at MSU Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph featuring a Hawaiian Luau performance on the campus of Michigan State University on May 4, 1962. In the photograph, a group of performers are seen standing on stage while wearing traditional clothing with palm trees decorating the background. Photograph by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan State University East Lansing (Mich.) Luaus Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1968589f67bbf22b6a4ebf6346ae039e.jpg 9fef4cbc2b5a267a21d67ecc43b5bba2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_C058-0024 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1962-05-04 Title A name given to the resource Hawaiian Luau Performance at MSU Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph featuring a Hawaiian Luau performance on the campus of Michigan State University on May 4, 1962. In the photograph, a female performer is seen dancing in front of the student crowd. Photograph by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan State University East Lansing (Mich.) Luaus Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99e94b9c7ede995443bd056160662e10.jpg df31743d3b07c699a8b7034d0a4d3e18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_C062-0032 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1962-05-05 Title A name given to the resource Hawaiian Luau Performance at MSU Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph featuring a Hawaiian Luau performance on the campus of Michigan State University on May 5, 1962. In the photograph, a group of female performers are seen dancing among the spotlights on stage in front of an audience. Photograph by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan State University East Lansing (Mich.) Luaus Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f5b2ec87a09fabdbd450a56dd5ea430.jpg 0579b0ce176a5421d2df917d11081ad0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1014 Title A name given to the resource Hawker N7/46 fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Hawker N7/46 British RAF fighter, December 1, 1949. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1949-12-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74b965fc4808b144c14d233dc348d8ff.m4v 640f378cfe2b4b075bb66279db5ceb30 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf5703acd434a5e6bfbffa44bcb01276.pdf 820b7633f9fedf24271680a3d223b4ed PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Raymond Hawkins, Jr. Length: 37:44 (00:10) Background Information       Raymond was born on July 7, 1956 in San Juan, Puerto Rico His father had been in the Navy and stationed in Puerto Rico when Raymond was born Raymond was a student at Michigan State University, training in the ROTC before he enlisted in the Army He was commissioned once he graduated and he became a 2nd Lieutenant Raymond was sent to Fort Riley, Kansas for about 1 month of basic training while in the ROTC and also went to Jump School at Fort Benning, Georgia Once he became a 2nd Lieutenant, Raymond was sent to Oklahoma for artillery officer basic training (3:20) Louisiana  After training Raymond was stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana where it was very hot and there were tons of mosquitoes  Each individual unit there had their own cook and the food was very good  Raymond spent 3 years at Fort Polk before he was sent to Germany for another 3 years  While in Europe he was also able to travel to Spain and Italy  Once Raymond was finished in Germany he was sent to Oklahoma for more advanced training (5:35) Traveling  Once Raymond was off duty he worked as a defense contractor during the beginning of Desert Storm  He later worked in the Reserves through the latter part of Desert Storm  He was also in the Reserves after the 9/11 attack and then called up to serve in Bosnia  He felt Bosnia had once been a “westernized” country and had been torn apart by the war  There were elementary schools that had been turned into refugee areas for homeless people  There were graves everywhere and the men were threatened mostly by snipers  There were seldom ambushed, but there were also landmines everywhere left over from the Cold War  Part of their job was to remove the landmines and take weapons away from civilians (8:35) Working in Bosnia �     Raymond got along well with the other men he was working with and also the Bosnian civilians They used the internet for communications; telephone calls were too expensive They were seldom off duty for leisure and usually working 18 hours a day The men did a lot of logistics work, shipping supplies to soldiers in Afghanistan Overall Raymond had a good experience in Bosnia (11:45) Iraq  After Raymond was sent home from Bosnia, his unit was immediately mobilized again and he was sent back to Oklahoma  They began training other units that were to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan  Later that year his own unit was sent to Iraq, which was a very different atmosphere from Bosnia  They were never working at night, but it was still very noisy from all the bombs going off and he was never able to get any sleep  There were always rockets and mortars going off and IUDs on the roads  His unit continued working on logistics and supporting ground troops, driving civilian vehicles  To avoid the IUDs they go very fast, usually 90 MPG  Raymond spent 6 months in Iraq before he was once again sent to Oklahoma (15:55) After Service  Raymond continued training soldiers before they were to be shipped to Iraq or Afghanistan  He was overseas for 3.5 years and only spent 40 days of that time in his actual home on leave  Raymond had been married while overseas and had children, but they were a bit older and only one of them was still in school  His leave was hard on his wife and she was always very worried about him  Raymond found he had become pretty impatient in civilian life  He was used to having to make split second decisions and act quickly (21:41) Looking Back  Raymond is now retired and does not expect to ever be called up again  He felt very good once the Iraqis had their first election and was glad that they were showing the courage to get out and vote  He learned great problem solving skills, leadership, analytical and people skills from being in the Army  Raymond also learned to appreciate the many things Americans take for granted � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hawkins, Raymond Jr. (Interview outline and video) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hawkins, Raymond Jr. Description An account of the resource Raymond Hawkins, Jr. was born on July 7, 1956 in San Juan, Puerto Rico. His father was in the Navy and stationed in Puerto Rico at the time. Raymond went through ROTC while attending college at Michigan State University and was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant once he graduated. He went through basic training at Fort Riley, Kansas and then through jump school at Fort Benning, Georgia. While in the service Raymond was stationed in Louisiana, Bosnia, and Oklahoma before he was discharged. He then worked as a defense contractor during Desert Storm and was serving in active duty in the Reserves during the second Iraq war. Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HawkinsJrR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d27134d717332874b038e65e530a5b2.m4v 9b00d96e474e6a6f327facbfaad9dc49 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be3510ae1f1b4a763cade1b7b0bb41a6.pdf 52b692701b3bba4a8c1067329e6f56a1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Raymond Hawkins, Sr. Length: 24:09 (00:30) Training     Raymond was serving in the Navy towards the end of the Korean War, working as a communications technician He had enlisted in the Navy in hopes of traveling all around the world, and also because he had not wanted to be drafted into the Army Raymond went through basic training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago and was then stationed in Alaska He did not think that training was very fun, but it was very educational, learning nautical skills, Navy terms, weaponry, swimming, and survival skills (2:50) Average Days  While working in Aleutian Islands, the men would fish for salmon with their bare hands  He made many good friends and enjoyed working with them  Raymond did not ever see any combat and was able to keep in touch with him family by writing frequent letters  They lived in barracks in Alaska and often went bowling on their time off or watched movies  To learn survival skills they often had to sleep outside in the snow and it was freezing  In Puerto Rico they were able to spend time on the beach during their time off (6:20) Working in the Navy  Raymond had started off in Chicago, and was then sent to California for radio school and security training  They were often working on top secret information with the NSA and he thought many strange things were going on  Raymond got along well with the other men he worked with and his officers  Once he received orders that he was going to be discharged, he was sent from Puerto Rico to Norfolk, Virginia  Raymond had been married while he was in the service and had a son (9:20) Life After Service  It was a very nice day when Raymond was discharged, but he had hoped to travel more while in the Navy  Raymond decided not to re-enlist because his family needed him �     He went back to working at his father’s dental business and was expected to take it over one day, but he wished he had gone to college Raymond still keeps in contact with the men he served with and often emails them He continued to work in his father’s dental business for 40 years and is now retired Raymond has been retired or 12 years and keeps busy with his grandchildren and traveling He spent 4 years in the Navy and now thinks that every young man should spend a few years in the service � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hawkins, Raymond Sr. (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hawkins, Raymond Sr. Description An account of the resource Raymond Hawkins, Sr. served in the Navy during the end of the Korean War. He enlisted in the Navy with hopes of traveling and avoiding being drafted into the Army. Raymond went through basic training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago, Illinois. He then went through radio school and security training in California before he was stationed in Alaska. Raymond served as a radio technician in Alaska and Puerto Rico and was in the Navy for a total of 4 years. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jacobson, Zachary (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-03 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HawkinsSrR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a66e078944717745ebbb1b2e38288e40.pdf e8cd485d67e09f97f8e7b239d09ba103 PDF Text Text Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Edward and Gretchen Hawley Interview Interviewed by Nora Salas and Paul Kutsche June 18, 2016 Transcript NS: Melanie got this water for you. I don't know if you wanted some coffee or something. EH: Well, I don't like bottled water. NS: Uh oh. EH: So, I do not want the water. NS: Okay. EH: And I don't think I need any coffee right now, so I think we'd better go ahead... NS: Okay. EH: ...with what we need to do. NS: Sounds good. Yes, well, we have some questions, but of course, you know, it’s up to you, also, what direction you want to take things. We do need to say a couple of things right at the beginning just so we 1 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department get it on the recording. And then if the recording were ever separated from the records, for some reason in the future, they would be able to know who was here and what they did, et cetera. EH: Alright. NS: Okay so, and we'll have to put your name in, too… when we say the interview name. EH: Anyway, should I say… this is what I thought I would say at the beginning here… NS: Okay. EH: ...if it would work in. Do you want me to say it here now or? NS: Well, right, maybe right after I say our names and the dates and such. So, this is Nora Salas and... PK: Paul Kutsche NS: ...and we are here today with... EH: Ed Hawley NS: ...Ed Hawley at the Hart… PK: City Hall [laughter]. NS: ...City Hall? EH: Well, it’s a Commons. Don’t they call this the Hart Commons, back here behind the City Hall? NS: Yes. EH: I think. NS: Yes, in Hart, Michigan and today, which is June 18th, 2016, this oral history is being collected as part of the Growing Community Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Of course, thank you for agreeing to come and be interviewed and talk with us today. And we are interested in talking more about your family history and your experiences in Oceana County. Before we go into this, can you please state, again, your full name and spell it? EH: Yes, my name - well, if you want the whole thing - is Edward Adair Hawley. E-d-w-a-r-d A-d-a-i-r H-aw-l-e-y. NS: Sounds great. EH: OK. NS: Why don’t you go ahead? EH: When the topic for today first appeared in the Oceana Herald Journal, I knew that the Hawley Nursery and Fruit Farm is an important part of that history. I also knew that there are only four of us left with personal experience of that history. The other three are my sister Martha Ann Piegols, my nephew John Hawley, and my niece Joann, who with her husband David, own and operate the fruit farm. My 2 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department sister always defers to me in things like this and she has a conflict today anyway. Well, Saturday is the busiest day of the week for the other two and their businesses. So here I am ready to share what I can. NS: Awesome, thank you. So, we have questions... we don't have to go by these questions, especially if you get started on a particular topic… EH: Oh, I have a bunch... NS: ...or you want to have your own things. Why don't we start with what you brought, I think would be better. EH: Okay, well, I went in yesterday - no, Wednesday - to the Chadwick Munger House, office of the OCGHS. And they were pointing out to me that on their curb lawn, there is a cherry tree that was given by my father, Monroe Hawley, to Dr. Munger and he still... he finished his practice but was still living in the Munger House. And that tree still blooms every year and has cherries every year, so that is a connection. And then another connection that might be missed. This book that I have brought with me is a history of the Robinson and Hawley families by Duane Robinson, who was a cousin of mine and the family connection goes back to the Hart High School class of 1907 because Morris Robinson and he was a Morris who spelled Morris: M-o-r-r-i-s, but my dad is a Maurice and he spelled / it’s spelled: M-a-u-r-ic-e. The connection is that in 1892, my grandfather, who had just graduated from an institution then known as the Michigan Agricultural College in East Lansing, and his brother, who Harry Edward Hawley came from Ganges, much further south down near Fennville, up to Oceana County, and leased eightyseven acres because there was a railway track that kind of angled and made a boundary of it that was owned by the Hubbard family. And they leased this farm from the Hubbard family and began the Hawley’s Nursery and that was in 1892. My Uncle Ed, we called Uncle Ed... I just sent a big email off to the Robinson family members who live out in Seattle, Washington - another long story that I need to tell - and but that Morris Robinson went to Hart High School and my men in our part of the family call him “Uncle Ed” stayed up here and rented a house on the same road that this eighty-seven acres was on. And his daughter, Hazel. Oh, this is my wife Gretchen… [?]: ...who wants to come and add to the story. NS: Okay, we need a chair. [?]: I will get one for her. NS: Gretchen, did you sign the release form at the beginning? GH: No, I didn't expect that I would be doing anything. NS: Do you want to say something? Maybe you should sign it just in case you need to sit to interject. GH: Okay. NS: Because I think if you interject and you haven't signed it, I think we might have to try to edit you out or something and it could get really complicated. [?]: OK, should I take her back out there to do that or bring it in here? NS: Just to the beginning station where… what’s that young woman's name? 3 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department [?]: I don't know. NS: I don't know either. [Laughter] [?]: [Laughter]. Okay. NS: Then we would, of course, welcome you to come in. GH: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I’ll sign... NS: Yes. PK: Good morning. I’m Paul Kutsche. Remember we met last year? GH: We did. PK: And this is Nora Salas, who is conducting the interview. NS: Hi, I'm sorry, what's your name? GH: I'm Gretchen Hawley. NS: Gretchen. Hi, Gretchen. PK: Oh yes, Mrs. Hawley. GH: Yeah. NS: Yeah, I got that part. [Laughter] GH: Fifty-eight years this summer. NS: Oh, my goodness. GH: Well, of course, we started late, that’s really amazing. [Laughter] PK: By the way, the two of you have Michigan State in common. Dr. Salas got her Ph.D. in History, was it not? NS: It is true, yes. PK: From Michigan State. PK: Your fellow alumni. EH: Oh, an alum. Mine is also... NS: Oh, really? EH: ...but that was much longer ago. NS: Well, yes. 4 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: Specifically, in nineteen forty-three. I think I have that right. So, but I...and it was a strange situation because it was wartime and I was studying for the ministry so I had a deferment for that purpose. And I felt because all my friends were going into the service or were conscientious objectors, that I should since I had this deferment, that I should get to college as fast as I could. Well, all these friends were in danger one way or another. And so, Michigan State had a requirement that you could only take twentyone credit hours and, from the time of Pearl Harbor, I began to do that in order to get through as fast as I could. And also, being the school it was - MSC, as it was when I was there - had a requirement that you could only take twenty-one credit hours in a semester, or not, a quarter because they were in the quarter system. And so, I was trying to do that, but also, we had ROTC and that was a credit and a half. And so, I wound up taking twenty and a half credits each semester and goes right through the summers. And then I was going on from there to Chicago Theological Seminary on the University of Chicago campus by Rockefeller Chapel. And I should remember his name - began with a “K” - my History major professor. Oh, I suddenly relaxed for my last term since they would not let me take twenty-one and a half credits. PK: [Laughter] EH: “No, you can’t do that, you have to go to summer school.” So, they gave me a blank sheet of paper, they let me stand in line for graduation, but I had to write one more paper. So, I… ten o'clock on a Saturday morning, I went in with my last paper and left it on my history professor's desk and went out and hitchhiked to Chicago with everything that I needed on a backpack. And amazingly, the University of Chicago and Michigan State were on exactly the same schedule, so I arrived on a Saturday evening and on Monday morning I took my first course at eight o'clock in the morning in seminary. So that was my transition and how they could be on exactly that same term schedule. And also have an intensive sixweek summer school divided in half was amazing, but that's what happened. PK: Did you happen to be a contemporary in the seminary with Duncan Littlefair, who became… EH: No, I know Duncan Littlefair from Grand Rapids, but he was in divinity school and I was in Chicago Theological Seminary, which were a part of a federated faculty and this gets so complicated. PK: Oh, I see. That, of course, has nothing to do with the project… [Laughter]. PK: Since I’m a member of Fountain Street Church, I was curious whether… EH: Yeah, well, that's right. I certainly knew Duncan Littlefair, but that was the connection. He was younger than I. NS: Before we go too much farther, Gretchen, just in case you do have something to add, at the beginning you missed the part where we ask people to state their name and spell it. Just in case, at some point in the future the written record were to be separated from the recording, then people would always know who was here. So, if you could do that, that would be really helpful. GH: Alright. I'm Gretchen Hawley. G-r-e-t-c-h-e-n H-a-w-l-e-y. And I'm Ed’s wife. We were married on the Fourth of July, nineteen fifty-eight. NS: Thank you. Easy day to remember. 5 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department GH: I was a town girl and I married a farm boy. PK: Which town? GH: Lowell. PK: Oh! NS: So, one of the first questions on here… we’re moving around a little bit, but... Ed, you grew up here in Hart, right? The relationship with the nursery? EH: Well, on a farm outside of Hart. NS: The seventy-eight acres? EH: Yes. Yeah, eighty-seven. NS: Sorry, yeah. It says, “tell us about where you grew up, some of your most vivid memories from childhood.” EH: Okay. Well, I, believe it or not, can...I have a memory of my sister's birth. There was no hospital in Hart or Shelby at the time I was born, which was in 1923, and my sister was born two and a half years later. But our doctor, who was Dr. Nickelson, a contemporary of Doctor Munger's, the house where his office is still down here on Main Street. And he… when my mother went into labor, he sent a midwife out to help deliver the baby. And I don't remember when that happened to me. But I was aware enough as a two-and-a-half-year-old because we had bedrooms upstairs separated by just a passageway. Same house is still there in Iona now. But anyway, I have this distinct memory of my… my bed was by my parents' bed, but when she went - my mother went - into labor, they put me in the back room, of course, but I still remember that the midwife came and when I went back in, I was shown this new baby sister that I had and I am always amazed how things like that can somehow stick in our heads. But I do feel I… PK: Were you the oldest? EH: What? PK: Were you the oldest? EH: I was the oldest. PK: Uh huh. EH: And then we have another sister, Lucy, who is five years younger than Martha Ann. So, she was born in the hospital; by then, an old building that had been a family restaurant down by the… well, kitty corner from Ace Hardware, down there was the hospital and it had a big front porch. And another memory I have was my grandfather had appendicitis and went to the hospital and died at the age of sixty-two. And I can remember going down and, as a child or children, Martha and I weren't allowed to go into the hospital, but the big plate glass window from when it had been a house was in the same room that my grandfather was in, and we could stand on the porch and wave to him from outside the window of the hospital. So those are some ancient memories, but I don't know we need to go into them 6 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department with the Holly Nursery because I do want to get to the...specifically, the Holly Nursery part of this. And aren’t we supposed to be doing this out there or at this time or what’s the schedule? NS: To try to scan that stuff? EH: No, no, I’m not worried about scanning. We can do that… GH: No, you do it all here, Ed. EH: We do this all here? NS: Where you talk about it? EH: Oh, yeah. NS: The nursery? EH: Oh, okay. NS: Yeah. We can, if you want to go in that direction we can do that, but there's a couple of questions too. We don't have to do all the questions, though. EH: Okay. I definitely want to get into the Holly Nursery part of it. NS: Yes. Yeah, so we can go ahead and do that if you want to. And then afterwards, they have a couple of stations set up to scan the documents that you have there. So, if you want to take them out and talk about them then... if that's what you wanted to do. EH: I have one question about this, and that is about copyright, because this book, which I would very much like to get a lot of into the Historical Society record, is... I think has a copyright by… I can’t recall his name, my cousin. NS: Robinson? EH: Well, he's the author of this thing. GH: Duane. EH: Duane, yeah, Duane Robinson. And so… NS: I think we have to ask Melanie. EH: He’s gone and when I got into this, I remembered. Let me go back to give this part of the history, to get the Robinson / Hawley connection and why this is that way. Because Morris Robinson went to Hart High School and my uncle Ed’s daughter, Hazel, also went to Hart High School. I had thought they were in the same class, but they weren't. That's where they got to know each other. And they got married and Morris went on to get a law degree at Ann Arbor, to the University of Michigan, and then went to work for Sears Roebuck. And Sears Roebuck sent him out to Washington State and that's where he never really practiced law because he was too busy selling Sears products, I guess. [Laughter] 7 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: But I suddenly realized, having looked at this, that Duane finished this in 1974 and that some of us who are still living ought to update it. Well, he had five kids and so I sent an email off to all of them yesterday saying that it suddenly struck me that some of us needed to bring this up to date while we’re still around. And I don't think they’ve… well, I haven't heard back from any of them yet. And there's a son who was a rather famous jazz musician. Well, a cousin of mine. So anyway, I hope that some of us will be willing to bring it up to date. And I can't imagine any of them would object and probably would never know anyway if I had some of us stand... PK: What is the date of the copyright, Ed? EH: What? PK: What is the date when this is copyrighted? NS: Because the law is different depending on when the copyright was. GH: It just says 1974. PK: Oh, so the copyright may still be enforced. NS: We can... I think that when we get to the part of scanning it, if we ask Melanie then… EH: Okay, NS: ...we can see what she has to say. Is there a copy of this in the historical society? EH: No. NS: Okay, just for your family? EH: I wish there were and I don’t know if there’s any loose copies around, there might be now because some family members may have died and their offspring have no interest it, but I'm not sure of that. Ideally if the whole thing could be in there... GH: We need to get it. We have a copy at home and this one at the cottage. EH: No, this is Steve's. GH: Oh, no, that's the one I took out of our bookcase. EH: Oh, it is, okay. This... we have it then; one in each place. PK: Well, of course, you know that you're at liberty to deposit this with the historical society, quite apart from scanning it. EH: Yeah, okay. PK: Whether it's, you know, whether the copyright’s enforced or not. NS: Yeah, especially if you fear later it might not be preserved, you know, down the line, then that could be a good idea. Sometimes people save a lot of things and then, you know, not everybody saves it after they're gone, unfortunately. 8 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department PK: It's awfully hard for families to keep things and let them get destroyed. And I'm right in the middle of it in my family. So, if I may, I urge you to… if you have a spare copy to deposit it with the historical society… NS: Think about it. PK: ...then if you want to update it, there's no reason you can't do that. Then they might eventually have two versions. The earlier and the later. All the better. NS: Yeah. Sometimes families, even if they want to preserve it, though, you know, the basement floods or something, you know, things are accidents. People move, lose track of things. PK: Well, I've been desperately trying to keep family records together, and I find that little bits of paper just sort of wander off. And so, the earlier they get deposited in a place that professionally can keep them the better, I think. NS: Now, what's this one that you have there? Is this about the nursery? EH: Indirectly. This is my dad here in the picture. And I made copies of this yesterday. And the historical society has one already so… GH: They copied that, you’re saying. EH: No, but was one thing, well I guess, we found. NS: So, this nursery… EH: Yeah. NS: ...when your family worked on that, what can you tell? What do you think is really significant? What do you remember about it? EH: Well, the fact is that a high percentage of all of the fruit trees in Oceana County and up and down the west shore of Lake Michigan were originally produced and sold by Hawley’s Nursery - the Hawley Nursery is the correct name. And so, in order to have the trees to sell, we had to get rootstock from someplace out in Oregon or Washington state, I'm not quite sure which. And then someone in March of each year, we'd have to have a field where they would plant all of this rootstock. And then come August, some of us - including me and a lot of kids from high school and all of my relatives of roughly the same age, my cousins - all crawled on our hands and knees up and down fields all over this county, because my dad needed fresh ground not to do this on the same field every time. So, he would lease land all over the county, really. And then send us… we had some very experienced and very fast and good budders [?]. But the technique was - having cut off the tops of these and dropping the root stock - was to... the budder [?] would go down the aisle and make a cut in the rootstock, and then he'd have a bundle that my dad would have or somebody going out into the orchards where there was fruit, true to name on a tree, and cut off a stick of buds. And as he crawled down, the person crawled down the aisle, pulled one out from behind and made a slip behind it, kind of a pointed slip. And then he would cut like this and slide that down into the rootstock. And then some of us would crawl along behind with a specific length of rubber band and wrap that up tightly. And then it would be left until the next spring when that bud 9 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department would sprout and grow. And I think it was usually a year later when those were dug out of the ground and sold to farmers. And I was intrigued just a year ago now that a friend, a near contemporary of mine in high school, Todd Novles [?] died and he had written his own obituary and he spent his adult life basically over on the other side of the state. But he wanted his obit[uary] because he would come over, he had a cottage… his family had a cottage on Pentwater Lake and it’s still in the family. And so, Tom, when he wrote his own obituary, and wanted one in the Oceana Journal, what he talked about in his obituary was how he crawled up and down the aisles budding [laughter] or tying rather behind the budder. PK: Does this then produce hybrid stock? EH: What? PK: Does this produce a hybrid, the rootstock plus what's going in? EH: No, the root stock… GH: ...it doesn’t influence it. EH: ...it doesn’t influence it. PK: Oh, it's merely the host! EH: Yeah. NS: It’s like grafted together. GH: Yeah. PK: Okay. NS: What kind of fruit was it? EH: What? NS: What kind of fruits? EH: Basically plums, pears, cherries - I think I’m onto five - and peaches… PK: And apples! EH: And apples, yeah. But then we always had I think usually just one quince among all of these. But and so those were all true to name and the people that bought them would be confident that they would be producing the same kind of peach or apple. My dad said it was, so… NS: Do you think it changed over from when you were smaller till later? Like, what kinds or different varieties? EH: Well, they were intended to be fewer and fewer. My sister still has in her house a catalog from the Hawley Nursery from something like 1907 that lists at least twenty-five different varieties of - I think it's 10 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department nearer a hundred different varieties - of all five of these. And because not all of them were sold commercially, that list got smaller and smaller as the years went on down to maybe forty varieties. NS: What do you think was the most biggest change from when it first started until now? EH: Well, the biggest change is that small nurseries like this were gradually forced out of business by the big commercial ones. What’s the one down in Kansas… near Kansas City? I should remember. Starcrow's [?] is one, but there are several of these that have pretty much forced all of the smaller nurseries out of business. PK: Hawley Nursery no longer is in business? EH: It's no longer in business. The fruit farm is because David and Joann Rennhack operate the fruit farm… live on and operate the fruit farm and have the Rennhack store now down across from Hansen’s where they sell all of their stuff. PK: Rennhack inherited or bought your business? EH: They inherited it; Joann is my niece so… PK: Really? EH: Yeah. PK: Wonderful family. EH: So, and Martha Ann… technically, Martha Ann and I are the inheritors in that generation, but Martha Ann passed hers down to Joann, and then Joann married David, so that's the connection there. NS: Do you remember roundabout when that stopped being able to be a nursery and went more to just the fruit farm part? EH: Yeah. John Hawley who his… my dad was Monroe Hawley. And then he had a brother, Morris, who died in the flu epidemic in the First World War in 1918. And then there were three girls in that family. And then my uncle, Herb, who has two daughters and a son, John, who's still… and John kept the nursery going for quite a while and had a place over on Polk Road for a while. But he and his wife were living in what is now the clubhouse for the Colonial Golf Course over on 72nd here. And that was a fruit farm which John also inherited when his dad died. He had kept it going because Herb wanted it to keep going, I think. And so, John took out all the fruit trees and made a golf course instead and he now is the manager of the golf course. And that's where Gretchen went to see if he had any Hawley Nursery stuff. GH: He didn’t, but he said hello. [Laughter] NS: When did the golf course go in? EH: What? NS: When do you think the golf course went in? EH: I think it's fifteen years ago, roughly, I'd have to… 11 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department PK: There was a restaurant there also for quite a while, was there not? GH: Well, there still is. PK: Oh, still is? That’s still running? GH: Inside Herb’s… that was the Herb Hawley house, that's the clubhouse. PK: You mean that beautiful, beautiful house there? GH: That was Herb’s house. EH: Before that, we always think of it as the Russell House because the original owner of that land, the man who built the house, was Judge Russell and Russell's Creek flows through and down and eventually into Hart Lake. And my uncle, Herb, bought that from the Russell family after Judge Russell died, and then he and Lucille, well, they built a smaller house for themselves and had John and Sandy living in the other house, in the big house. But Herb and Lucille are long gone. There was almost an even thirteen year difference between my dad and Herb, and then I’m about thirteen years beyond that. There’s all these girl children in between. NS: And this is ‘52 and this is your dad? EH: Yeah. NS: And it says he was a nursery man. EH: Yeah. NS: And he had the nursery through maybe the [nineteen] sixties, seventies or longer? EH: Well, he had… he and Herb together had the nursery. And then John took over when both of them were gone... NS: And he still had the nursery. EH: ...and he still had the nursery. NS: And then part of it became a golf course. PK: How many acres of trees did the Hawley Family have at the maximum, would you say roughly? EH: Well, there was that original eighty-seven acres, and then my dad bought what we called the Turner Farm across the street, across the road from that original property. And the reason he bought it is the man that did these wonderful postcards and note cards for the historical society just died a few weeks ago. PK: You don't mean Ed Ricketson, do you? EH: I do. PK: Oh! 12 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: Yeah. Because he worked on all those cards and I read his obit[uary] and didn't catch the fact that that’s whose obit[uary] I was reading, somehow. But, yeah, it was Ed Ricketson. And anyway, where was I going with that? [Laughter] PK: How large the enterprise was… EH: Oh, yes! And the reason for the Turner Farm. And that is that my mother grew up in Adrian, Michigan, which is down close to Toledo... closer to Toledo than any other sizable place. Anyway, she’s from Adrian. She went to Adrian College, then she got a master’s degree from the University of Michigan, and then she got hired to come up and teach high school in Hart. And it happened my dad's sisters were in her classes and dad, my grandfather, had been in… no, now we’re with my dad. My dad was in the Second World War and was with an army unit that went over to France. GH: Well, that would be the First World War, Ed. EH: Oh, my memory is... GH: [Laughter] NS: It's okay. EH: ...playing tricks on me. GH: It is. PK: There wasn't much time between the First World War and the Second. It’s easy to conflate them. NS: He met your mom, then, when she was at the school? EH: Yeah, that's right. This is the First World War, as Gretchen says. And so, my dad, Monroe, had missed going to Europe because he had scarlet fever, and the unit went without him, but he got discharged then after the armistice and came back to Hart. And his sisters had Doris Hawley as their teacher and she said they liked her very much and thought that they should introduce her to their brother. And so, one of the funnier stories about that is that he began dating Doris at his sisters’ encouragement and it was in the middle of the winter for them when this was happening and he had a sleigh and a horse. And so, he took her out in the winter with lots of rogues [?] for this ride in the sleigh and the horse knew the way and they got acquainted with each other as they went. And he suddenly realized to his embarrassment that the horse had turned in at the driveway of the girl that he had dated before. [Laughter] GH: The horse knew the way. NS: It seems like the sisters overruled the horse, though. GH: [Laughter] Yeah. NS: The horse had an opinion about this, too, I guess. [Laughter] EH: He made some kind of excuse, which I probably once knew, but no longer. 13 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department [Laughter] PK: Well, they got married anyway! [Laughter] EH: Yeah, right. [Laughter] GH: Dorris' maiden name was Adair and that's Ed's middle name. PK: Now, all this had something to do with the growth of acreage because that's where we started from. EH: Oh, yes, the Turner Farm. The original farm was in the Gulliver [?] School District. One of the things that - oh, what was it - the man we were just talking about produced is a card that there were one-room schools that sometimes got expanded to two rooms all across the county that served grades one through eight. And I just signed off this morning to a friend of mine that's helping me write my memoirs, because right where we're sitting here in the bottom center of that card, there's a picture of a building that ran from up here all the way back to the playground at the back down there that’s above Courtland Street, where I went to school from kindergarten through senior in high school and all in the same building. And so, and then it has pictures of several of these country schoolhouses on that same... GH: Yeah, but the reason your dad bought the Turner farm? EH: Yeah, oh, that's where we were going was that my mother was still teaching in high school. And so instead of us kids having to walk up the road half a mile to the Garver [?] School, which our neighbor kids did have to do because Dad bought the Turner Farm across the street, it was in the Hart District. And my mother was still teaching in Hart, so she could take us into Hart School and we could go to a single-grade classroom because he was paying taxes on that property. PK: How big was Turner Farm? EH: Turner Farm, I think - it’s been expanded some - but I think initially it was pretty much a standard ninety-acre quarter section. PK: So, all together then you had at that point maybe one hundred eighty acres or so? EH: Something in that neighborhood. And then they bought some other additional that was beyond that, too. NS: And maybe, you said before, maybe leased some other? EH: Huh? NS: You said before, maybe leased some other lands sometimes? EH: Oh, yeah, almost every year. For example, one year I can remember he’d leased land out in Elbridge Township in what had been the American Indian Reservation. Gretchen grew up in Lowell and Cobmoosa, who was a chief of one of the Indian nationalities, actually lived in Lowell in a regular house. She’ll correct me if I'm wrong. GH: [Laughter] EH: But then because the federal government decided that they should give these people some of their historical land, they made this Indian reservation; all of Elbridge Township, originally, was American 14 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Indian. And so Cobmoosa decided that he should come up because he was a chief of his people, he should come up and live on that land. And his log house is now down in the Hart Historical District down here. But I can remember when it was still out in Elbridge Township and my dad had rented probably something like twenty acres across the street from it for budding. So, for about three weeks in August, we would take lunch and go over. By then, no one was living in the Cobmoosa house. But we would have our lunch over there and then go back to crawling up and down the aisles across the street. And then eventually they carefully took it apart and reconstructed it down here in the historical district. GH: Before you did budding in high school and all, your dad hired you kids to hang out in the orchards. EH: [Laughter] Oh, I knew she wanted me to tell this story. GH: [Laughter] EH: Child labor. GH: [Laughter] EH: And this is when Martha Ann and I and our neighbor kids - the Nickleson girl and a boy, we were roughly the same age - that played together. Dad had a cherry tree that was out in the orchard with lots of other cherry trees, but that bloomed about a week earlier than the others. And as soon as it would have fruit on it, the Cedar Waxwings would all come in to eat the cherries off the tree. So, my dad offered us a nickel a day - the four of us - if we would go out and play under these trees to scare the Cedar Waxwings away. So that is child labor laws [laughter] were being violated for a nickel a day. NS: What about the other… aside from the important job that you all did when you were kids, were the other people who worked for your dad and worked for the nursery… where did they come from? High Schoolers? EH: I hope Walter has lined up... because the house that Martha Ann and I were born in, I still own, but it’s kind of… my dad just pulled it out of the farm when it went over to the Rennhacks and eventually it has to get back into their hands. But I'm renting it currently to Tommy [?], who works at the La Fiesta restaurant and her brother now runs it or her father. But that family all came up in the summer to work on my dad's... on the nursery and the fruit farm for my dad. As did a, for example, this is sometimes forgotten, a white family from Alabama who were also part of this migration of people that went around picking crops and that white family whose name will come to me and should eventually, stayed here in Hart and of course, because they learned the nursery and fruit business, were doing some of the same things on their own. And that same thing was true with Tommy and her family and that family named her brother now inherited from her father, who was the original one who came up and worked seasonally, is down in the valley between the golf course and Polk Road and he keeps the place up beautifully. And so, we have that connection also with the history of Mexican ancestry people who have now settled here. And I think Walter has him on schedule to be a part of this. PK: Ed, a couple of people whom I interviewed, particularly Floyd Fox and Velo Burmeister, both of whom were in their mid-nineties when I interviewed them... 15 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: And Floyd is still around, I think. PK: Yes, he is. I understand he's still healthy, as a matter of fact. EH: That’s right. I go to Shelby Church and he's five years older than I am. PK: Still driving his own truck, as a matter of fact. EH: Yeah, right. PK: Well, each of them told me the succession of waves of pickers started, as you have already told us, with the kids in the family. EH: Uh huh. PK: And then they moved on to different categories. With the Latino pickers, they were all Mexicans to start with, were they not? EH: Yep. PK: Came in... EH: Well, no, some of them were Texicans, actually, that they were born in Texas, but of Mexican ancestry. PK: But they were of Mexican ancestry, not Honduran or Guatemalan or Puerto Rican. EH: No. PK: Can you give us an idea of the succession of categories of people who picked and otherwise worked on your family's acreage, starting with the family and then… NS: When you were a kid, did they hire people outside the family to work? EH: I think so. NS: Do you remember? PK: And who were they? I don't mean their names, but were they other Anglos or were they? EH: There was... I don't ever remember any black families. PK: Oh, blacks did not pick for you. As you know, they did for other families. EH: Uh huh. There was one black family and one black man, Gabe Crocket [?], and one black family, the Reeds [?], that lived in Hart when I was a small kid. But how they got here… they were just here. Oh, but I think the Reeds had to have probably come up from Muskegon and probably did start working. But my memory, because at one point they lived in the Garver School District and there were two girls - Fanny and I'm not sure I can remember their name - and i think two boys. But there was a time when they were living in the Garver School District and would walk past and further to the north because they would walk past our house and the Nichols [?] house to go up to Garver School. And Fanny had a great voice and was a wonderful singer. And Estelle, I think, Estelle was mentally challenged and she kept being left behind so she'd be much bigger than the other kids in her class, but Fanny, Mrs. Nichols [?] 16 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department would invite them to come into her house. She had a piano and she would get Fanny to sing. And I remember as small kids, they were somewhat older than we were. We would be fascinated by listening to her sing. GH: But they never worked in the orchards for your dad? EH: No, I don't think they ever worked for my dad, but they were here and Gabe had the house in Hart and I know right where it is, still. And he was a very short man. He probably was only five [foot] two [inches] or something like that. And he allowed himself to be the butt of people's jokes at the county fair. But I remember the men coming up to him and pinning prize bull or something on his collar and he would just smile and go on. PK: But he didn't work for you? EH: He didn't work for us. PK: You mentioned a family from Alabama. EH: Yeah. PK: They were white people. EH: They were white. PK: And you remember when that would have been? What decade, at least? EH: That would have been in the late 1930s or early 1940s. PK: Now, as you know, they were great, at least one, maybe two prisoner of war camps here for Germans. EH: There were. PK: And they worked for a lot of people. Did they work for you? EH: No, I don’t think they did. I remember walking by there on our way back and forth from school because one of them was just south of what is now Polk Road, which wasn’t then called Polk Road, I don’t remember what it was. But I do remember that they were there, but they didn't... I don't think Dad ever had any of them working on the farm. PK: Well, then was the Vasquez family the first of the Latino families who… EH: I think so, yes. PK: That would have been when? 1950s, perhaps, or? EH: Better ask Tommy or her brother. Let me think, it was earlier than that in the 1940s, probably. NS: During World War Two. EH: What? NS: During World War Two, the federal government had a program where they brought workers from Mexico directly. Sometimes they called them “braceros.” 17 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: Oh, yeah. NS: And they were mostly all men. They were supposed to be all men, not families. EH: Yes. NS: Do you remember them coming? EH: Not to Michigan, but I remember them coming to California and how they... NS: Were you in California? EH: Oh, the folk singer had this... John Denver had the song, I think… NS: Guthrie? EH: ...which would be later. NS: Guthrie, maybe? GH: Not John Denver. EH: Who was it? GH: Woody Guthrie? EH: Woody Guthrie. It was Woody that had this… PK: John Denver would be flattered to be compared to Woody Guthrie. EH: Yes, Woody Guthrie had this… oh, I thought I could sing the words to that song even about being forced to go back to Mexico. NS: Yeah, that continued for a while until 1964 for that program. EH: Yeah. NS: And then it ended, so yeah. PK: Did you help the Vasquez family get started in the restaurant business? They're so successful now that it's very interesting to a lot of people how they made the transition from migrant laborers to solid members of the commercial community here in Oceana County. Was your family instrumental in helping them make that transition? EH: Well, I don't remember any specific instances of it, but just the fact that they knew they’d always have employment on the nursery or the fruit farm. It gave them, I think, the stability to be able to develop their talents along that line and create their marvelous chips that are now probably even more the part of the business than the restaurant. [Unknown]: Slide past. I’ve got to use the restroom. NS: [Whispers] It’s okay. [Unknown]: Sorry about that. 18 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department NS: Sorry, so you mentioned some people who came to work from different places. EH: Uh huh. NS: And then sometimes high schoolers would come and you would go when you were in high school and when you were younger. How were those people recruited, especially who came from other places? How did they find out? Or at first, you know, like, they get in their car in Alabama and how do they end up at the Hawley’s? EH: I'm not sure I know, they just appeared! [Laughter] NS: Well, after a while, they must… they came back year after year. EH: Yeah. NS: Right? But if a family decided not to come back, then you needed more people to replace them. How would they… how would your dad or other family recruit people? EH: I think we would say to the ones already here, “do you know anybody else?” And they would then say, “well, yes, there’s so-and-so, and I'll tell them.” So, that's how that would happen. NS: Do you know what time of the year when they would arrive? Usually? EH: Usually, I think in June. I doubt that any arrived much earlier than that, but I would need to think about that more to be sure. A lot of them had a routine that would then eventually take them down to Florida to pick tomatoes after stopping in New York State to do something or other. So, it was a big circle, Texas, and maybe with the stuff in Missouri on the way to Michigan, I'm not sure about that but… it was Missouri or Iowa, but. PK: Did any of the… well, how many Mexican pickers did you have at one time at the maximum, do you think? It wasn’t just one family, I'm sure. EH: Oh, boy. I think John Hawley is the one that really could answer that better than I. PK: Do you happen to know, to remember...? EH: Once I finished high school, I was here so little. John was on the ground all the time, so he would be a better person to ask. PK: Do you recall whether any of them moved into supervisory positions, at least field bosses or managers or anything other than the pickers on the ground? I know that's fairly rare, but I do know of a case or two where somebody who started picking ended his career managing. Chico Longoria, for instance, who worked for the Fox’s for a long time, whose obituary appeared in the Herald Journal last year, was a conspicuous case. Are there any such people who worked for the Hawley’s? EH: Oh, well, the Vazquez’s, of course. PK: But were they in a managerial position for you or is it only after they left Hawley to go on their own? EH: Well, as I say, when I graduated from high school, which was 1941, I do not recall, but after that, I just wasn't around enough to be aware because I was going straight through school. 19 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department NS: After school, after you went to school in Chicago, too, then what did you do? EH: What? NS: After you went to the school in Chicago, then what was the rest of your life? EH: Well, the first thing that happened... NS: How did you end up back here in Hart? EH: The first thing that happened is that once the war was over and I no longer had this compulsion to keep going to school, I had in 1946, I had connections with what our denomination called the Congregational Christian Service Committee. And Jim Flindt, who was on the staff of the big congregational church in Madison, Wisconsin; Jim was also on the board of the Congregational Christian Service Committee. And the congregational churches in Great Britain - and we did have an international congregational organization - were completely closed down, their theological schools, during the war and with the bombing and everything going on. And the tradition had been that young people who were studying for the clergy in Great Britain would go into various inner-city programs to work with kids and youth and children, and that just completely shut down. So once the war was over and the seminarians were going back to school. [Cough] Well, I may need… well, all right. [Inaudible] They recruited seminary students from here to go over to Britain for a year and work in these places. [Cough] And Jim Flindt knew me from the Pilgrim Fellowship, which was the youth group of the congregation. [Cough] He asked me if I would like to go and I jumped at the chance to do something besides study. And so, in September of 1946, I got on the Queen Mary - which was still a one-class ship at that point because it had been a troop ship during the war - and went to Great Britain and wound up at the Crossway Central Mission in South London, near what is still called the “Elephant and Castle,” which is the name of a pub in Southwark. And the New Kent Road connects up with the Elephant and Castle and Crossway Mission was at New Kent Road. Bill Martin, W.B.J. Martin, who was a Welshman who had been working in London inner city in the height of the bombing over on the East Side and somehow got through all that. He was then the minister and that building after the old city missionary [?] had a tower that had three apartments in it… maybe two apartments. But anyway, Bill Martin and his wife, who is also an ordained minister, were on the one floor and the caretaker who lived on the top floor - the last name was Vassie (V-a-s-s-i-e) - and they would come to me and they had a spare room. So then, as it turned out, for two years I lived with the Vassies on the top floor. And so, there are lots of connections with that. I'm not sure how far we’re going in terms of Hawley’s Nursery now but... NS: Well, but then you were in London and then, for two years, and then… EH: Yeah, I was at Crossway Mission for one year, but stayed with the Vassies because I had been national president of the Pilgrim Fellowship, which was the youth organization for the congregational 20 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department churches in this country. And the Congregational Union of England and Wales had a youth division and decided they wanted to have something similar in Great Britain. So, they asked me to stay a second year and travel around to all the different counties and meet with the youth of the churches in those areas to help them form. That was the pattern of Pilgrim Fellowship. Each different confluence had its own organization so that was the connection there and was fantastic because… oh, and in between these two things was the Second World Conference of Christian Youth, which was held in Oslo, Norway. And I had been doing the work at the Crossway Mission and their work with the youth program really wasn't going to start, so I had that summer fairly free and because each of the denominations had people that would go to this Second World Conference of Christian Youth, and I was closer so, at least, I think it was easier for them to make me one of them because it wasn't going to cost as much to get me there from London as it was from New York City or California or someplace or Hawaii. And so, I did, I was able to spend two weeks there and again, these marvelous connections. And this is certainly a long way from where we started. The Congregational Churches Worldwide had the foresight to call a pre-Oslo conference, which was held at… there was a Congregational College at Cambridge University, and they got Congregationalists from all over the world to come together for a week there. And one of the people who came was Russell Chandran from the Church of South India, and he was from Bangalore. Russell and I not only got to know each other at the meeting in Cambridge, but when we got to Oslo, that program was divided up with small groups. And he and I wound up in the same group for two weeks in Oslo. So, we got to know each other quite well and he eventually came to do some additional study. He and his wife, Vicki, from South India, came to Chicago Theological Seminary, which was my seminary. By then, I was the minister of the interracial and bilingual church on the west side of Chicago and the… NS: What church in Chicago? EH: It was the Warren Avenue Congregational Church. It no longer exists, though. It merged with the Presbyterian Church on the next corner. And the building now is a Black Baptist Church and it’s still there. But that was another marvelous experience because… EH: Oh. NS: It's OK. EH: Is it okay? GH: Well, you've gotten far afield. NS: You find all kinds of things. PK: So, you went with the merger? EH: Yeah. GH: But you were in Chicago then, not Oberlin. PK: And Bruce, as you know, went with the congregational holdout. 21 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: Over to the church, yeah, there’s still a Continuing Congregational Church out in Grand Rapids, isn’t there? PK: Mayflower. EH: Mayflower, yeah. PK: One of my relatives went there, the rest of them stayed at Park [?]. I'm happy to tell you they still went together for Christmas. EH: Oh, good. [Laughter] Well, that’s amazing. PK: And we almost overlapped in London, apparently; I arrived in London in September 1949 and went to work for the United Press and stayed there until 1951. But you had already left by then, had you? EH: Yeah, but I came back in the summer of [nineteen] fifty-one for the Festival of Britain. PK: Oh, how wonderful! EH: And also, to direct a World Council of Churches work camp in Deptford south of the river and which was one of the stranger work camps anyplace because the minister of this church... PK: An inner-city slum work camp, huh? EH: Yeah, it was decided that the building should be restored. But they had once had a much bigger piece of land and had a graveyard outside. And way back in history, they had brought all the bones from the graves outside into the basement. And when the minister decided he wanted to restore the building, he had to get to the foundations and all these bones were down there. So, our work camp and the kids from Germany and Denmark, World Council of Churches people from all over, a German guy and I were co-directors of this, where our whole job was getting these bones out from around the foundations that had to be supported. PK: What did you do with the bones? EH: Nothing ever came of it, in terms of actually getting the building changed. PK: What did you do with the bones? Did you throw them in a pile? EH: No, we were reburying them, but away from the pillar, we had to get the pillars cleared so that they could be reinforced to hold up the rest of the building. GH: So, they're still there; the bones are just relocated? EH: They were the last I knew! But I have not kept up with that. [Laughter] EH: I don't follow bones around. PK: You know, there’s something that struck me: are we sort of freewheeling now or do you have a part of this you want to get back to? Because I think Ed and I are sort of going way past Oceana County. NS: Well, you've discovered new things now, connections that you didn't know before. 22 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department PK: Yeah, but I don't want to interfere with the core. NS: It doesn't have to follow a linear path, necessarily. I think that might be kind of hard for us to… PK: Well, I think Ed’s getting tired and I’m getting tired. NS: Yes, that could be. EH: Didn't Walter have other people that you're supposed to be interviewing lined up? NS: Yeah. I think… are there things you wanted to talk about that you didn't get to yet? Before you came, are there things you said, “Well, I'm going to…” because I don't want that to be missed out. EH: Well, let me look at my notes. I’ll tell you what I wrote down. NS: I don’t want him to leave not having talked about things he wanted to talk about. I doubt most people got to all of these questions. EH: This is pretty peripheral, but it's interesting how, again, things come together because Duane Robinson, who put this book together… I had to come up here to do a lot of interviewing and, of course, Duane, having been part of this branch from Seattle or West Seattle from our family, had come here knowing that his dad, Morris Robinson, was from here. And at that point, when he came, Ivan Robinson was still living and was on a farm just south of the farm that Martha Ann is still living on, and she and I grew up on kind of on top of the hill. And all of his family, Duane had talked to them and had listed by name in the book all of the Robinson family members that were living right in our neighborhood here in Oceana County. I broke the femur in my hip two summers ago and wound up in the Oceana County Medical Center. And there was a man there… actually, two people that relate to this and I'll get to the other one, maybe two. We’re a little more back to what we originally were aiming at anyway. And I discovered that one of them who was a patient then in the medical center was named Manley Robinson. And he and I would eat lunch together while I was in there rehabbing from my hip. And I eventually thought that I'd better go look at this book. And sure enough, here was Manley’s name and Ivan… Duane had interviewed Ivan and he listed all his brothers and who they were and where they were. So, again, I copied out of this book that page where Manley’s name appeared and I was able to produce it for him at the medical center. And he was so pleased and amazed he actually had his name in print. PK: [Laughter] That’s great. EH: He’s gone now, too. But, I’m glad before he went, he knew that he was remembered. GH: Have you interviewed any of the families that are here now that worked in the orchards who came up from Texas? PK: I decided when Andy Schlewitz came up and interviewed a number of people who worked in the orchards, that I would carve out something. At that time, nobody else was doing that, they were interviewing the growers. So, I have not interviewed any pickers. GH: When we were married in ‘58, the Hawley’s were still tapping all those old - well, now they're really old - maple trees along 72nd Avenue and to make maple syrup. 23 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department PK: Oh! GH: And so those trees… PK: Well, those are sugar maples then? GH: Uh huh, those are all sugar maples. PK: That's a pretty big industry in Oceana County. GH: And they had, what was it called where you boiled the… EH: An arch is what we called it. GH: An arch. And they had the big pans that are about twice the size of this table. And they’d use old... PK: That’s where they boiled the sap down? EH: Yeah, right. GH: They’d use old wood from the orchards, trees that were cut down, to keep the fires going. And Ed was showing me this arch where the syrup was... EH: We’d have the big pan... PK: So, your family was in that business, too, then. EH: Well, it wasn’t a business. We were just doing it for ourselves. PK: Oh! EH: Yeah. NS: Home use. PK: You didn't put your label on…? EH and GH: No, no. EH: No, it was all canned by my mother and we… PK: I wondered where maple syrup came from. GH: It takes a lot of sap to make the maple syrup. And those trees are still there, but no longer tapped. But it was in that arch that you presented me with this engagement ring. EH: Oh, that’s right! GH: And I didn't fall into the fire. [Laughter] It was a great surprise. PK: How many gallons of sap… [Inaudible] [Laughter]. GH: I don’t know. Yes, but besides that, did your mother can a lot of fruit or not? EH: Yes, we had that whole basement… well, you've been down in the basement. 24 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department GH: Oh, that’s right. EH: Remember, we had all those cupboards of things she’d canned that would be used during the winter. NS: But when you were a kid, she still worked at the school? EH: Well, not too long. NS: Just a little? EH: Long enough to get us established going there. But I think by the time I was in second grade, she had stopped teaching and was just homemaking, but we were still going. And of course, often we would walk to town to school and walk back on the railroad tracks. And that was always a challenge to try to walk on the rail and not fall off as we were walking home from school. GH: The tracks that are now the Rail Trail? EH: The tracks that are now the Rail Trail. GH: Okay. PK: Which run right through what I think of as the Rennhack... EH: What? PK: The Rail Trail runs right through the… what I have always thought of as the Rennhack orchards, right? EH: Uh huh. GH: Yeah, those were the Hawley… PK: Which were the Hawley orchards. GH: Uh huh. Those were the Hawley orchards. PK: Your niece is married to a Rennhack? Or is her maiden name Rennhack? EH: No, that’s her married name. PK: She's a Hawley who married a Rennhack? EH: No, she’s a Piegols. Because she’s my sister Martha Ann Piegols… Martha Ann Hawley Piegols’ daughter. So, her original name was Piegols and now it's Rennhack. PK: May I drop your name the next time I'm there? GH: Absolutely! [Laughter] EH: Well, certainly. PK: They're wonderful people. EH: Yeah, we agree. 25 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department PK: I’m all done; are you all done? NS: We can be; it's kind of up to you. I could ask you, frankly, I could sit here and ask you both questions all day. [Laughter] NS: All day. But I think that, you know, there's a limit to what you can... I could think of more and more. It's up to you. GH: I remember something that has to do tangentially with the orchards and apparently what they produced and financially. And that is that when we went to East Africa with our World Board and I had a baby three months after we got into Tanzania, they had to... they flew over to visit their new granddaughter. And I remember Monroe Hawley saying that he did that because he had a good apple crop. So that was an apple trip financed by the apple crop. And then when we moved up six years later to Nairobi, they decided to come again and he said that was a plum trip. EH: Oh, that's right. I had forgotten that! [Laughter] PK: Did you hear echoes of that rhythm from other families? I'll give you an example, but I'm wondering if… well, let me tell you the example and you can tell me whether you have other examples. I interviewed Barbara Bull and Barbara Bull, as you know, is an alumna of Mount Holyoke College. Her younger sister is an alumna of I don't know what, but at any rate, it’s not one of the seven sisters. And I said to Barbara, I said, “your sister is a brilliant pediatrician, I believe. Now, how come you went to Mount Holyoke and she went to some state school?” And Barbara's answer, just like that, was: “because we had a very good cherry crop the year I went to college.” And you're echoing that. GH: Uh huh. PK: Do you find that with other picker families, excuse me, other grower families, too? That, of course, your income is so totally dependent on the weather and other things you can't control that there must be an enormous variation from year to year. EH: Yeah. PK: Whether you can go to East Africa or wherever. GH: Yes, they make two trips over. He also went to horticultural meetings in England - Monroe did. PK: And were those on the years that there were good crops? GH: I expect they would have been, but I don't know. And the horticulturalist from England that he met there came and visited the Hawley Nurseries here. PK: Really? GH: In fact, you're still in touch... EH: Well, Duane is, anyway, with one of the families because they’ve had kids come over and work on the farm. The man that Dad knew was the editor of a gardener magazine in England. Thought I would have the name of it come to mind, but it didn't. And so, I think he had come to the States first and 26 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department somehow met Dad at a meeting. And then they got to corresponding and so that got quite to be back and forth and went on to the next generation. That's the son of the man that my Dad knew that Joann keeps in touch with and who we've been over to visit and had their kids come over or a kid come over and spend the summer working on the farm. GH: So, there's an international exchange that goes on. PK: I thought I was all done, but I guess I'm not because each of you and Gretchen have just touched on something that surprised me very much. I’m, as you know, I'm only a summer person here, but I was brought up on the shore of Lake Michigan in Ottawa County at Port Sheldon. And I expected when I bought my cottage thirty-two years ago, and I expected when I bought it, that the citizens of Oceana County would be people whose worlds were very small, very circumscribed by just the local environment. And I was surprised the very first year and have been surprised ever since repeatedly by the breadth of connections in the world of people in Oceana County. And do you think… have you just told me what the answer to this dilemma in my mind is? That it's because of commercial and agricultural missions and visits, do you think that’s what really is essentially behind it? GH: And going to conferences over in England and all. And I remember Monroe saying none of the apple varieties in England were what he grew here. They were all different. PK: Well, you probably noticed that there is an unusual - I think it's unusually high - student exchange between families in Oceana County and families abroad. Is this part of… do you think that this mood for wanting such exchanges was set by these earlier...? GH: I don't know. PK: And of course, I don't know whether it's higher than it is in other countries in Michigan now, because I left Michigan when I was sixteen years old and didn't come back until I was seventy, so… [laughter]. GH: Oh, my. PK: I don’t know what’s happened in the meantime. GH: I remember when - I don't remember the year, but - when the cherry pickers first… the picking machines first came in, that Monroe, very excitingly, had us watch how they operated. EH: The shakers. GH: The shakers... that picked all the cherries at once. Not the sweets, they still had to pick the sweets by hand. Is that right? EH: Yeah. GH: But the tarts, they could use the shakers and they’d come down in a curtain of red down to a canvas. NS: Was he happy with how it worked? 27 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department GH: Well, the old orchards, when the trees would be shaking, the old branches would go flying. You had to be careful not to get hit. But now they're planting the orchards and with shakers in mind because that's what they use. And so, you don't have the old twigs hitting you on the head when they use them. And of course, the trees now are much shorter than they were. And they had three-legged ladders that the pickers used. And you can still see some of those around because they could fit under the tree. They had the regular ladder with a third leg. PK: Are those sweet cherries still picked by hand? Even now? GH: I don't know, are they? EH: I think so, but I'm not sure about that. GH: Well, during the last few years, didn't you and your sister have to pick cherries and leave the stems on because he got more money for them if they were on the stem? EH: Yeah, that's true. GH: Yeah. NS: I guess one of the questions that was on there, too, that some of what you had said does remind me of, I wonder if we might get to it a little bit, is your dad and some of the other people went to meet with other horticulturalists, maybe trade varieties or talk about different techniques or even find out about the cherry picker machine shaker thing. Did they participate in different organizations that were for nurserymen or growers or farmers? EH: There’s a Michigan Horticultural Society that meets every December and usually in Grand Rapids, I think, maybe in other places. And Dad was always active in that. And he and my mother would plan to go down to Grand Rapids. We had, well, my sister, Ruthie, was down there anyway, so they had a place to stay. And they would spend those three days in Grand Rapids for the Horticultural Society meeting. And Dad was the one who went to the meetings, and my mother and Ruthie did whatever they wanted to do. I'm going to mention one more thing that's on my list, and it's not really very direct, but we would... because the nursery actually had a southern branch that my uncle, Ed - all of his side of the family called him Harry, I never quite figured out why - he was Uncle Ed to all of us, but he was Grandfather Harry on that side. But anyway, his wife, I was a little embarrassed when we would go down because Uncle Ed would have some areas for budding patches and we would go down to spend maybe four or five days in his budding patches. And it was always an adventure because he’d put us all in the back of the truck and, of course, no seatbelts or anything and then drive madly down these country roads to where we were going to be working that day. PK: Where was that? In southern Michigan? EH: Fennville. PK: Oh. EH: He, actually, his... PK: You mentioned Ganges. 28 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: Well, originally Ganges is where our family came from. PK: That's right on the lake, isn’t it? EH: Right on the lake, that's right. In fact, Dad showed me the house once that I think I remember correctly. There was a river or big creek or something that empties into Lake Michigan and just on the south side of that creek is the house he said is the family house, but I don't know if I could go back and find it. PK: I hope that house is still in the family because lakefront property at that latitude is worth an awful lot of money. [Laughter] EH: We have kind of shirttail relatives who live in a house in Douglas County that is south of where the road got washed out many, many years ago. But they don’t have lakeshore property, but they are part of a common area of homes that do have access to Lake Michigan. And they're trying to sell their house now, and even though the lake is so high and there's so much erosion, just the fact that they're hoping to visit us next month. And he's a very skilled jazz musician. PK: Oh, wonderful. EH: But they're trying to sell their house and it's tied to the fact that there is this lake access, even though it's down a lot of steps to get there. NS: So, what you wanted to tell us about going to the farm in Fennville? EH: Oh, yeah. The connection is that Uncle Ed's wife was a Plummer - her family name was Plummer. And I didn't know that until later. I had stayed with her, but what her maiden name was never came up. And when I finally learned it, I realized that I lived in a co-op house at Michigan State and one of the other members of that co-op house was also a Plummer and probably we had some kind of an indirect connection there with the two families. But then Charlie Spencer was [inaudible] but Uncle Ed's grandson still was when he was living. And he died maybe fifteen years ago, so fairly recently, and his second wife had land on the west side of Fennville. The train to Grand Rapids goes through his land, basically, by Fennville. And so, he had that connection and we had stopped to see him, at that time we were in Chicago and driving back and forth and stopped to see Charlie. He always wanted me to meet his wife's daughter, Ginny, who we would never quite stay long enough. He’d tell her to come. But she's the one now we’re going to be meeting on the Fifth of July, when they head up to a jazz event up in Leelanau County and they’ll come by to see us. PK: Excuse me, see you later. NS: Yes, I think we might be wrapping this up here. EH: Yeah, well… NS: I’ve tired you… we’ve tired you both out, I think maybe. [Laughter] Thank you. GH: ...quite far afield. 29 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department EH: Oh, I did… I copied out and these are from the book and not the memorial society. This page and a little bit here are the Hawley… and there was one strange… I may try to talk to Walter about this, because it gives my grandmother's maiden name as Render. NS: Mm hmm. EH: But it was actually Bender. NS: Oh, it's not correct. EH: So, somebody couldn’t read somebody’s writing, obviously. NS: That happens sometimes. EH: In fact, it goes on here later to talk about her brother, Jim, and calls his name Bender. GH: Are you leaving that with her? EH: No. NS: Well, let's go over to the place where they have the scanning machine. EH: Okay. NS: And we can talk to the woman who might know about the copyright thing you said earlier and see what they have to say. EH: Okay. NS: I don't know, but I'm going to make sure I'm not supposed to say anything at the end. NS: Thank you both for your time. I’m supposed to say… GH: He's so excited about doing this. NS: Oh, thank you. I'm supposed to say, officially, this concludes the interview. EH: Okay. 30 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8c8a7bd816438fe21727bff5eccef2b.mp3 f25b14434abd191b9ea0af332a1f4d17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shell-Weiss, Melanie Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Oceana County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society Relation A related resource Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Image Sound recording Language A language of the resource eng spa Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Subject The topic of the resource Oceana County (Mich.) Hart (Mich.) Shelby (Mich.) Farms Farmers Migrant agricultural laborers Hispanic Americans Account books Diaries Oral history Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06_Hawley_Edward_and_Gretchen Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hawley, Edward Hawley, Gretchen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-06-18 Title A name given to the resource Hawley, Edward and Gretchen (audio interview and transcript) Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with Edward A. Hawley and Gretchen Hawley. Interviewed by Nora Salas and Paul Kutsche on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Edward Adair Hawley was born in Hart Township, Michigan in 1923. He graduated from Hart High School in 1941, followed by Michigan State University in 1944, and a joint degree from Chicago Theological Seminary and the University of Chicago in 1949. Edward married his wife, Gretchen Hahn Hawley, in 1958 and was a part of the family business known as Hawley Nursery, which played an important role in the agricultural heritage of Oceana County and was responsible for producing a high percentage of all the fruit trees in the county and the west shore of Lake Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Salas, Nora (interviewer) Kutsche, Paul (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oceana County (Mich.) Hart (Mich.) Farms Farmers Fruit growers Nursery growers Michigan State University Chicago Theological Seminary University of Chicago Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8de518680720f73b32a93ce6bd9dc291.mp4 452adf839826a8c6f61e129da18f9abd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/748b59d1ec75a01f8dc07b8b8022acd7.pdf dc8f86aa77762e105228fda1e8559f49 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Richard Hawley (33:22) Background information (00:10)         Born in Michigan in 1932 (00:12) He lived with his grandparents who farmed (00:20) He went to live with his mother in Traverse City, Michigan, in 1937. (00:50) He then moved to Kalamazoo, Michigan, where he attended school until 11 grade. He then dropped out and joined the Air Force at age 17. (approx. 1949) (1:10) He picked the Air Force over the Army. (1:46) He decided to enlist due to his fear of eventually being drafted. (2:06) During his childhood he paid close attention to the conflicts in Europe and in the Pacific. (2:30) He had family in the armed forces. (2:48) th Basic training (3:15)  For basic training he was sent to Lackland Field in San Antonio Texas. (3:16)     Basic lasted 12 weeks and consisted of shooting, marching, and learning discipline. (3:20) He was able to adjust to the discipline but other men had more difficulty. (3:40) He attended basic in January of 1950. (4:30) During basic, Richard was given aptitude tests. He was originally assigned to engineering but later became a welder for aircrafts. (4:58) He was next sent to Selfridge Michigan where he worked as a welder on maintenance. (5:34) He was in Selfridge Michigan for approx. 6 months. (6:06) He was in Selfridge Michigan at the beginning of Korean War in June of 1950. Most of the soldiers were “fired up” about this news. (6:32) He spent 19 weeks at a welding school before being assigned to Selfridge. (7:27) Richard Volunteered to serve in the Far East. He was hoping to work in Japan but instead was sent to Korea. (7:48)      Service in Korea (8:14)     He sailed on a troop carrier to Japan and then was flown to from Japan to Korea. (8:16) The voyage to Yokohama, Japan, took 9 days in spite encountering 2 typhoons. (9:38) He was stationed in K-2 (10:15) Bombers primarily flew missions out of this air field. (10:38) �     He worked on aircrafts as well as on the runways, particularly on the runway planking. (10:54) The pressure of a heavy aircraft was what did most of the wear on the runway. (11:48) Every night K-2 came under fire. (12:05) The Air field was hit about twice a week by aircraft. (12:44) K-2 was located about 150 miles from the front lines at the time of Richards’s service. (13:23) Life in Korea (13:42)                   At K-2 the men lived in tents. The men were often cold and wet with oil heaters used for warmth. There were about 8 beds in a tent. (13:45) There was a mess hall for food. (14:20) There were many Koreans working on the bases, one of whom Richard taught how to weld. (14:45) Richard picked up pieces of Korean as well as Chinese during his service in the Far East. (15:23) Korean soldiers were used to guard the base as well. (16:04) There were about 200-300 aircraft stationed at K-2. (16:24) Richard spoke often to the pilots and the officers and as a result had a good perception of what they were doing. (17:11) Several air craft where lost a day at K-2. (17:56) Some pilots had shot down 20-30 MIG fighters. The pilots often thought that the MIG pilots were Chinese because the North Koreans were not as good at maneuvers. They did not think they were Russian. (18:29) For R and R the men at K-2 often went to Japan. During this time most men went to bars. (19:00) Richard thinks that most of the Koreans were surprisingly kind to the U.S. soldiers. He thinks this in spite of being hit by a jeep by a Korean and being out of service for 1 week as a result. (19:52) Most men Richard worked under were career officers and mostly disciplined. (22:26) He spent 1 year in Korea (approx 1950-1951). (23:06) The base had trouble with crime. One soldier sold his truck 3 different times. (24:00) Richard used the radio to inform himself on the state of the Korean War. (24:34) He thought that the reason for the war was to protect South Korea not to stop Communism from spreading. (25:30) Men were constantly being cycled out. This, however, led to trouble with training new men because too many experienced soldiers would leave at one time. (25:49) He was very anxious to return home. When he returned home he was taken by boat. (27:49) Service in the U.S. (approx. 1951-1953) (28:17)   After returning to the U.S. Richard continued his work as a welder and maintenance man. (28:34) He left the military 4 months early in approx. 1953. (29:12) �Life after Service (29:40)    Richard worked as a welder after service. He did many contracts for different (29:48) He believes that the military gave him much more experience and a different perspective of the world. (30:25) After Korea he arrived in San Francisco, California. He then took a train to Michigan but it ran in to trouble when the track was damaged due to an earthquake. (31:39) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hawley, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hawley, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Hawley, born in Michigan in 1932, served in the U.S. Air Force from 1949-1953 in both the U.S. and Korea during the Korean Conflict. During his service in Korea, Richard worked as a welder and maintenance man at the K-2 air base, mainly repairing runways and aircraft. After returning to the U.S. he continued his job as a welder in Selfridge Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-03-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HawleyR0343V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/42f97a87558e0adbb76b4dd992d16900.jpg 8b232af5e7c475f87ece65e9ca8d8302 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_53_1917_011 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1917-10-31 Title A name given to the resource Hayes cottage looking south Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a line of beachfront cottages. Debris is visible on the beach in front of the houses. Subject The topic of the resource Macatawa, Lake (Mich.) Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f5f4f3709edbac807c9294c862ea6fb8.m4v 824b0779830da12e22bad39b3da6d887 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/73edb6b94b7cb12aed0dfb6caf66e05f.pdf aa1502059f8fea763b5250d015cce51a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Billy Hayes Vietnam War; Cold War (Post-Vietnam) 18 minutes 46 seconds *Note: Times are referring to the time code at the tape’s start (01:40:19) Deployment to Vietnam -Assigned to the 27th Surgical Hospital while at Fort Lewis, Washington -Originally planned on deploying to Vietnam in November 1967 -Got moved to spring 1968 -Allowed him to see the birth of his daughter -Enough time to move his wife and daughter to southern California -Flew to southern California and boarded the USNS Geiger -Set sail for Vietnam on March 5, 1968 -Arrived in Vietnam on March 26, 1968 -Chance to get acquainted with the men in the 27th Surgical Hospital -Hadn’t gotten that chance while at Fort Lewis -Sailed over with a Navy chaplain and three other Army chaplains (01:43:14) Arrival in Vietnam -First offloaded an artillery battalion at Nha Trang before he disembarked at Da Nang -Learned about the Tet Offensive that had happened in late-January 1968 -Forces at Da Nang were still recovering from the attack (01:44:03) Stationed at Chu Lai -Sailed down the coast in a Landing Ship, Tank, to Chu Lai -The 27th occupied the abandoned Marine hospital while their hospital was built -Six weeks later moved into their new hospital near Highway 1 -He stayed at Chu Lai until late-November 1968 (01:45:12) Stationed at Phu Bai -Swapped units with plans to be stationed at the base on the old Michelin rubber plantation -Swapped units again and was assigned to the hospital at Phu Bai (01:46:26) Casualties -Saw a lot of casualties serving as a hospital chaplain -Focused on doing his tasks and trying to ignore the blood and gore -Stayed with men while they were in the operating room -Answered their questions, eased their anxieties, and prayed with them -Remembers one African-American Marine who had lost his leg above the knee -Stayed with him, on and off, for several days -The man’s stoicism and faith helped ease Billy’s anxieties about seeing wounded men (01:48:44) Easter Service 1968 -Held an Easter sunrise service in Chu Lai �-The Americal Division was holding their own Easter sunrise service nearby -As he finished his service, a soldier came up to him and said a chaplain had been wounded -Billy went to see the wounded chaplain in the operating room -The man had given the prayer invocation and sat down when a bullet hit his arm -A bullet had fallen out of the sky and hit with just enough force to break skin -Nothing too serious, but serious enough to warrant a Purple Heart (01:51:49) Stationed at Fort Gordon -After his tour in Vietnam, he was stationed at Fort Gordon, Georgia -Served as the basic training chaplain and worked with soldiers bound for Vietnam -Transferred to the garrison side of the base after the basic training program ended -Worked with the post chaplain and as the religious education chaplain -Worked with a rabbi, Catholics and their programs, and the Sunday school -Spent about 2 ½ years at Fort Gordon (01:53:35) Chaplain Career – Stateside -Accepted to the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas -Studied there for a year and got his master’s degree in religious education -Went to Fort Lewis, Washington -Managed their religious education program for three years -By this time the Vietnam War had ended -Served there for 3 ½ years -Attended the Chaplain Advanced Career Course at Fort Wadsworth, New York, for a year (01:54:54) Service in West Germany -Sent to West Germany -Served with the 1st Brigade of the 1st Armored Division for a year -Became the brigade chaplain and served at Ray Barracks, Friedberg, Germany for two years (01:55:55) End of Service -Returned to the United States and went to the Army Chaplain’s School to be in the faculty -Worked in various capacities at the school for three years -Focus on combat and logistical exercises -Final assignment was at Fort Ord, California -Nearing his 20-year mark, and as a reservist he would’ve had to retire -Wife convinced him to get out of the Army -Better chance of getting a job as a Baptist minister at 45 years old -Wonderful way to end his career (01:57:32) Reflections on Service -Exposed him to other Christian denominations and made him more openminded -Realized other Christians were just as faithful and convinced of their beliefs -Privilege to administer and help the wounded soldiers in physical and emotional pain -Found he had more in common with other sects than he thought he did � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HayesB2059V Title A name given to the resource Hayes, Billy M (Interview outline and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-10-28 Description An account of the resource Billy Hayes deployed to Vietnam with the 27th Surgical Hospital on March 5, 1968, and departed by ship out of San Diego. He arrived at Da Nang on March 26, 1968, then sailed down the coast to Chu Lai. He served at the hospital there until late-November 1968 and was reassigned to Phu Bai. Upon completion of his tour in Vietnam he returned to the United States and was stationed at Fort Gordon, Georgia, for 2 1/2 years. Over the course of his career he studied at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary worked at Fort Lewis, Washington, in the religious education program attended the Chaplain Advanced Career Course at Fort Wadsworth, New York served in West Germany with the 1st Brigade of the 1st Armored Division. He returned to the United States and served at the Army Chaplain's School as part of the faculty, and completed his 20-year career at Fort Ord, California. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hayes, Billy M. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keizer, Herman Jr. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2202160ea361996d00d207a8e9c95c3f.jpg d1d4c43ce5bc056bb12bc5002d979382 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HayesDoyle_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Hayes, Doyle Description An account of the resource Doyle Hayes, Management Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8211ce78116b47d7bcc1ebe6e0bd1c74.jpg a9e5e4fe1febedf6fb121a9070f97eaf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HayesDoyle_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Hayes, Doyle Description An account of the resource Doyle Hayes, Management Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1dfc0404df13b9f5d71a58786227309d.jpg 8fb3395e7c817184e388df12e62cc3cb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HayesDoyle_Photo03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Hayes, Doyle Description An account of the resource Doyle Hayes, Management Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/64cb0b6055503f44c5449522ebc5e985.mp4 30097b5cb4425469f267212c5cb18bb6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9aa8ab1611c614b0ca4221e4668dcd56.pdf f4d9d8e355e3b89f3143b2178c76e7e5 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW ROBERT HAYHURST Born: Resides: Interviewed by: Maxine Sarafino, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 18, 2014 Interviewer: My name is Robert Edward Hayhurst. Interviewer: My name is Maxine Serafino and I’ll be interviewing Robert Hayhurst today for Lake Michigan College. We’re doing this for the Library of Congress and the Lest We Forget group. Interviewer: Robert, could you tell me about your family, where you grew up, and siblings? I was born in Waukesha, Wisconsin on February 2, 1943. I’m the oldest of four children; I have a brother Richard, a sister Carol and a sister Janet. Most of our childhood was spent in northwestern Wisconsin, in New Richmond, Wisconsin and I graduated from high school there. After graduation from high school I attended the University of Wisconsin Stout in Menominee, Wisconsin 1:03 Interviewer: Did you graduated from there? Yes Interviewer: What degree? A degree in industrial technology, the Vietnam War was going on and the draft was on everyone’s minds, and I decided to enlist in the army and pursue activities as a special agent in the military intelligence. 1 �Interviewer: Why the army? I guess—my father was a first sergeant in WWII. I had an uncle that was killed in Italy in WWII, but mainly, I guess, because of the military intelligence that I wanted to get into. That field as opposed to--most of my friends and colleagues, at the time, were being drafted and sent right to the infantry. 2:01 Interviewer: What years did you serve? 1966 – 1969, and after basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, I was sent to Fort Holabird, Maryland—Baltimore, Maryland and the intelligence training right there at Fort Holabird. Interviewer: How long did that take? I was about a five month course, almost twenty-four hours a day, in all aspects of intelligence from information gathering, to counter intelligence, to interrogations, to just a lot of different areas of intelligence. From there, the graduating class, which was, and consisted of a hundred and nine, a third was army. 3:04 Another third were marines, and then there was a smattering of civilian intelligence from the National Security Agency, the State Department, some naval intelligence personnel, because this was thee military intelligence training school that the government had. Interviewer: Did you get any survival type training? Yes, a little bit, but not much. Intelligence, at that time, we’re talking forty-two years ago, or forty-three years ago, you’re put into lots of different types of units, so they had to train you for different things. Some were combat units, doing intelligence work for a certain unit. 4:03 I guess I was very fortunate, in my three year career in the army. Following graduation from the intelligence school, I was sent to Germany. The cold war 2 �was still going on; I spent a year in Stuttgart, Germany at the 66th Military Intelligence Group Headquarters outside of Stuttgart. There the intelligence in Germany at the time, Europe, all of Europe, was counteracting intelligence efforts from the Russians and from the East Germans. There was, at that time, offensive intelligence and counter intelligence, and then in counter intelligence there was offensive counter intelligence and defensive counter intelligences. 5:00 How you’re dealing with the enemy and how you are throwing off their plans, and then how you’re protecting you own personnel, or your own units by providing good background investigations for security clearances and that sort of thing. That was one type that was going on in Germany. At the end of 1967, I volunteered, because the war was going on and I wanted a little different kind of action, I volunteered for a transfer to Vietnam. I was sent to Vietnam and there I was, after an initiation period, or a period of, I guess, being familiar with the country and what was happening in Vietnam, I was sent up to Hue, the city of Hue, to be a member of a five man team, military intelligence team, which was the 1st Battalion of the 525th MI Group. 6:05 Hue is an old imperial city about sixty Kilometers south of the demilitarized zone. The five man unit, we lived in a house, an old French provincial house, upstairs were our bedrooms and downstairs were our offices. We were probably three, or four, blocks from the local MACV compound, a military compound, we were given civilian identification, United States civilian identification, not part of the military, because we were doing a lot of other types of intelligence work over there. Primarily gathering intelligence about the enemy, about the Vietcong and about the North Vietnamese troops that we infiltrating. 7:00 But, at the same time we’re doing intelligence work, counter intelligence work for our military. All ranks, high officers, full colonels and on down, anyone needing security 3 �clearance has to get these background investigations and our unit would provide that also. So, the way the military is, in the rank and file, when we were sent to an artillery unit, or infantry unit, or whatever, and you had to interview, or investigate a member of the unit to update their clearance, sometimes we had to wear different uniforms. Sometimes we had to wear a captain's uniform, or a major's uniform, lieutenant's uniform, sometimes just a sergeant's uniform. 8:03 Interviewer: So you fit in more? So the people we are talking with are more comfortable. There were a number of high ranking army officers that would not want to talk to a sergeant or a lowly lieutenant, so then we had to put a different uniform on, a different ID, and they felt comfortable then, they wouldn’t want to talk to someone low anyway. Interviewer: What did you think of Vietnam when you got there? You’d been in Germany. This was a whole different experience, intelligence wise a whole different experience, but that part of Vietnam was culturally very interesting. The city of Hue was the—it meant a great deal to the South Vietnamese and to the North Vietnamese. 9:00 The University of Hue was there, leaders from both the north and the south were graduates of the University of Hue. It would be like years ago in our Civil War where members of the south and members of the north both graduated from West Point together, and that’s what the University of Hue had in common with those folks, and the old imperial city with the Citadel and the seat of power for the rulers of the time. It was a very interesting city, very compacted, maybe a hundred and fifty thousand people living in an area much 4 �smaller than—much, much smaller than Benton Harbor, or St. Joseph, but anyway, it was very interesting, very interesting. Interviewer: Is that what you did most of your time there? 10:00 Yes, until the Tet Offensive broke out, the 1968 Tet Offensive. Part of my function before the Tet Offensive was work with Australian troops, Korean troops, and of course, our own units and South Vietnamese units in the area. We were the first unit that would do interrogation of captured NVA soldiers, or NVA soldiers that defected. With the help of interpreters we would interrogate them for information. Interviewer: Were they brought to you where you were at? How did that work? We were brought to them, they were being held in confinement and we were brought to them to get as much information as we could about why they were there and what was happening on their side, and then turn that information over to authorities. 11:01 The units that needed that information. It was a real different mixed experience in the intelligence services in Vietnam, much different than Germany, much different, because you’re fighting a different—there’s a different purpose, there’s a different enemy, there’s a different kind of action, you know. Also, we were involved in—because of the civilian identification that we had, we were being posed as American advisors to the South Vietnamese government, helping them build bridges and roads, improving their crops and better rice and all those different things, that was our cover, but we were there for intelligence purposes. I’m not giving away any secrets, this was a—I’m sure it has changed greatly since then. 12:00 The effort of the intelligence service, you know, very interesting. 5 �Interviewer: Anything else happen while you were there? How did it go? You had your job to do. I had a chance to visit a lot of different units in that I Corps of South Vietnam, up to Khe Sanh, up to Quang Tri, those are quite remote units , or areas, and there were some battles and things that took place while I was visiting for a couple of days doing jobs in Khe Sanh. They were invaded. Interesting, you were flown in up there and flown back in various size planes, not helicopters, fixed wing aircraft. A lot of our other travels were through—Air America would take us around in small planes. 13:01 Interviewer: What was Air America? It was a government funded, sponsored, type of civilian air unit. Small planes, two and four passenger planes that could take off and land very quickly, very powerful, could take off on a short runway not much longer than this room, and just get airborne and travel, you know, as opposed to helicopters. They must have contracted, contracted with our government to do this sort of thing, shuttle individuals around. At the end of January 1968, we were all caught by surprise when the 1968 Tet Offensive hit. Would you like to hear a little bit about that from my perspective? 14:03 It all started the evening of, as I remember, January 30th, or early in the morning of the 31st. Leading up to that, most every night--our house is in the city, on the western bank of the river, the new part of the city, and a half mile, or maybe a quarter mile from the actual outskirts of Hue, we’d hear machine gun fire and mortar fire almost every night for a while. It was NVA units interacting without either our military or the South Vietnamese military, but it’s very commonplace, except that particular night it started and didn’t let up. 15:01 It kept on all night long and more and more guns and all of a sudden some planes were activated. 6 �Normally, planes weren’t activated, but the planes were activated, South Vietnamese aircraft and American aircraft trying to repel the enemy. When daybreak hit early in the morning of January 31st, our bedrooms were on the second floor and we look outside and we see columns of troops, North Vietnamese army troops, walking up the street, just like they own the street. I thought, ―Oh man, we’re behind enemy lines already‖, you know, and the platoon took a position at the corner up the block at an intersection. You could tell they were not Vietcong, they were units of the NVA and how they were dressed. 16:06 They had branches of--tree branches and stuff stuck in their helmets and backpacks. We were five men in this unit, and we just waited for them to contact, or interact, with us and right next door there was a naval intelligence unit with four men there, so we joined forces in their house. There were nine of us and when the North Vietnamese troops started going house to house getting everybody out, whether you’re South Vietnamese or Americans like we were, we resisted and we pooled our weapons together. We didn’t have that many weapons, a few boxes of hand grenades and fourteen rifles, 45 caliber pistols, and three, or four, 45 caliber sub machine guns. 17:09 We also had some phosphorus grenades. We were in a pretty big house, a concrete type of house now, and it had a third floor and we fought from the third floor. We destroyed our intelligence files by dropping phosphorus grenades into our file cabinets and melting those. Some of the fellows decided to keep their civilian ID’s. I did and another fellow said, ―No, we’ll put our military ID’s on‖, so we put our dog tags on and destroyed the fake cover ID’s and kept our military ID’s. 18:04 I figured that if we were going to be killed, or captured, I’d just go out as United States Army. We fought them off that day, different surges they made and two of the fellows were killed. All night long, of just 7 �sporadic firing all night long of January 31st, and then the 1st of February, in the morning, late morning, we ran out of ammunition and we had to surrender. We had killed a number of their men and they killed two of ours. We had a number of injured, three injured. 19:03 It’s a scary feeling when--we’re on the third floor, going downstairs not knowing what’s ahead of you, you know, if you’re going to be shot on the spot, or what. All they knew is we were Americans, they didn’t know what our roles were; I don’t think they knew what our roles were, but we’re the enemy, we’re Americans. They took us down the street, three or four blocks behind the houses, because they had to protect us, because the South Vietnamese and the American forces were fighting to get that part of the city back, so they had to protect us and they put us in a house. A house they occupied, a pretty good size house, and the house was occupied by Phillip Manhart. 20:00 He was a federal service officer for the state department and was a very—the highest ranking state department official in that part of Vietnam. He had been captured some time before; anyway, we spent that day in that house. That night six of us in a shower, a six by six shower tied up with communication wire holding our elbows back, you know, tied at the elbows. They took our boots away from us and that was it. The next day, on the 2nd of February, the night of the 2nd, they took us out of town under the cover of darkness. 21:00 But, all the time we were in that house there are dive bombers from our Air Force and marines and the South Vietnamese Air Force, fighting in that part of the city, so they had to protect us from being shot by our own people, you know. They marched us out of town, the evening of the 2nd, my birthday, my twenty fifth birthday, and under dark, obviously. We were barefoot, arms tied behind our backs, and we marched out, I’m guessing it was to the west. I thought to the west and north of Hue, 8 �through some fields, roads, we had to cross a river, they put us in boats and took us across the river. 22:00 Bombing and shelling is going on all the time and they knew where to take us so we wouldn’t get shelled, or bombed, by our own forces that night. We went through some villages and we spent the next day in a little village, and we’d sleep in the day and march at night until they got us into the foothills west of Hue. A few more days march and we made it to a camp in the lower part of the mountains that was a staging area for the North Vietnam army coming into South Vietnam, and sort of a hospital unit for their wounded, you know. By that time they had gathered twenty-six of us two civilians, two ladies, one was a doctor, and one was a school teacher from Holland, Michigan. They had been over there five, or six, years in their civilian work, being a medical doctor, or a teacher in a South Vietnamese school, but they’re foreigners and they got picked up. 23:03 There was a French Canadian that did not speak English, he was from Montreal, and there were a number of civilian contractors from the Pacific Architects and Engineers that were captured. They were builders and different things and they were captured, and then there were Marines and Army personnel that made up the twenty-six of us all totaled. Some were injured, four, or five, were injured pretty badly. After two weeks in this camp, with interrogations every day, they finally found an English speaking person to come down from Hanoi that could speak English and talk to us. We could communicate with our guards by the limited knowledge of the language of Vietnamese that we knew, but for the most part when we really wanted to communicate with our guards that were holding us, they spoke French. 24:01 Some of our personnel had French in high school, French language training, so we spoke French until this English speaking person came. Then the interrogations got a little stiffer, and it 9 �was something, because of my training, we just knew that this is part of the game, you know. We were interrogating there men, so it was something we expected. After two weeks at that camp they gave us our boots back, and the twenty-one healthiest ones, they put us on a march heading straight west to Laos. They told us that this march was going to take ten to twelve days and we got a gunny sack with twenty pounds of rice to carry on our back and we set out. 25:01 Now we’re in the jungle and in this jungle we’re traveling at night and it was up hills, craters and river and everything else we’re crossing heading towards Laos. We’re going to the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos and then they were going to take us north and then into North Vietnam--North Vietnam to continue on the Ho Che Minh Trail and then eventually to Hanoi. Well, after four days of that march another fellow and me, Edward Dearing, who’s a member of our office, of our unit, we decided to make a run for it and escape. We talked to all of the other twenty-one to see if they wanted to come with us. Civilians, no, some were injured; some didn’t know how to swim, some were afraid and said, ―Well, we’ll take our chances, and they may release us in a couple months‖. 26:04 They said, ―The war’s going a certain direction and let’s not endanger ourselves, let’s just see what happens. We’ll be captives and we’ll be released in a few months‖. That’s what they kept telling us, ―You’ll be released, you’ll be released‖, but I was worried, because of my intelligence training and my job, and what we knew about the other units in the whole area that it wouldn’t be a good experience to be seriously interrogated. So, we got the blessing of our appointed commanders, ―Yes, go ahead, it’s your duty to escape‖. We took off right after breakfast, if you call it breakfast, the morning of the 23rd of February. 27:00 The daily routine on the march is such that we’re on these trails going through the jungle, the mountainous jungle, we’re in 10 �the mountains now, and the trails are not any more than, maybe, six feet wide and it’s a thick jungle wall on both sides. In this march, two, or three, times a day they would have us get off the trail. Get off the trail and sit in the bushes and just wait, because the North Vietnamese units are going the other direction and this is one of their highways we’re on, and the North Vietnamese troops are going the other direction. They’re looking at us and we’re looking at them. They’re carrying their weapons and they’ve got, in some cases, women and children carrying rockets for them, and mortars. We get off the trail and let them pass and we keep going the other direction, you know. 28:00 They’ve been doing this for years and they know how to work, so they—early in the morning they’ll start a campfire covered by a hutch that they make of branches and leaves, and everything else, to hide the smoke, and they’ll cook enough rice for that meal and to make rice balls the size of a big snowball. That’s your breakfast in the morning, a bowl of rice with a little rock salt, and you pack another ball in leaves and carry that with you and stop halfway through the day and that’s your lunch too. At nighttime, when it gets dark, you stop walking and they build another fire and cook rice for the night time, and that’s what the twenty pounds of rice that everybody had to carry was for. There had to be enough rice for all of us to get to the next camp, which was I don’t know how many miles away in North Vietnam. 29:00 We did not wait for that, after the 23rd of February, after that first meal, we’re down by a creek washing our utensils and the guards, they’re washing their utensils, and we’ve been captured now for over three weeks and we’re way inside enemy territory, and I think they knew that if we tried to escape someone will pick us up, someone will recapture us, shoot us, whatever, you know. They didn’t really have to worry about us like they did early on. There were a number of us washing our utensils by 11 �the creek and the guard turned the other way and went back around the bushes to his campsite, or packing things up to move on that morning. We took off in the other direction down the trail and got to this river we had crossed the day before. 30:01 We jumped in the river, swam across, got on the bank on the other side, and we just didn’t move for about two hours, it seemed like quite a long time, to see if anyone was following us. No one followed us, so then we crept back down to the river. This is a river that’s fifty, maybe a hundred feet across, a fast moving river out of the mountains, cold, but flowed very fast, so we got in the river and floated on the river out of the mountains. We knew that pilots, back then, that were shot down in Vietnam were told to get to the seacoast and you’ll be picked up at the seacoast. Planes are up and down the seacoast and they’ll find survivors that way, so we figured, ―Well, our best chance is to get to the seacoast‖. Vietnam, being a narrow country, parallel, right along the ocean there, and all rivers flow to the sea, so well just ride this river to the sea, you know, that was our idea. 31:02 We floated out of the mountains, stopped about every hour, or hour and a half, just to warm up a little bit and pick leaches off of us, rest a little bit, and then get back in and keep floating down. Towards the end of that day, almost dark, we heard some noise ahead of us and it was a North Vietnamese Army unit back off that river, oh, maybe fifty yards, or so. They were near the river, but not on the river, but we could hear them and we peeked up so we could see them, so we stayed in the water and floated real slowly by the back where they couldn’t see us. We were on their side, because if we were on the other side they could see us. 32:00 So, we went past them and kept on going and the river started getting slower and slower and wider and wider, and we spotted a road on the other side of the river with a lot of American boot prints all 12 �over it, fresh boot prints. We swam across the river and looked it over and said, ―We’ve kind of had it with the river‖. We were really cold and this is February and cold temperatures and everything, of course, and we decided to walk that road and see where that took us. I’m not sure, a couple of miles maybe and we got to a Marine outpost, an artillery outpost. We didn’t know it was Marines, we just could hear, we could hear Americans talking in the dark, and the dusk, we didn’t know who they were, but they were Americans, so we thought, ―Well let’s just walk into this unit and see what it is‖. 33:02 It was a Marine military artillery unit and we were lucky again, because we—one fellow stopped us and said, ―What are you doing here? You just walked right through a mine field to get to us. They just had a big killing zone‖, and we said, ―We were just following the boot prints‖, and he said, ―We put those there for a purpose‖. We missed all these mines. These posts, out in the countryside where these units were, they had their rows of tents and their different buildings, there communications and their soldiers units and whatever. 34:01 But, then they had a fence with machine gun units all around and then they had their artillery guns pointed in various directions and then they had this big, almost a hundred yards of killing zone, all cleared, so that anybody coming, they could certainly see them and they were hidden, anybody had to come across that open field to— and that was called a killing zone. That’s what—we walked right through it on this road. The other fellow and myself were both the same, six foot three, so we didn’t not look like an indigenous Vietnamese person. We stood as tall as we could, so they could see who we were, and we had beards. They let us come right in and we made it. 35:00 We figured-we talked with the commanding officer, a young Captain, we looked at aerial photos of the whole area and he kind of new the river we were on and he had aerial 13 �photos at his disposal. We were there a couple three days, because they were so far out in the area that they did not—they had not had a meal in a week and they were down to two C rations a day, they were getting low on ammunition, and it was so far out that the, in that time in February, that the air cover, I mean the cloud cover, was so low that their supplies, they wouldn’t fly them in to them, because it was so dangerous, they had to fly so low. So, we had to wait three days before someone came to pick us up and fly us out of there. 36:00 We got to know those fellows pretty well and he figured we were very close, if not in Laos, very close to Laos when we escaped. We had to make our way across the northern part of South Vietnam and I’m guessing it was thirty-five to forty miles that we traveled, you know, before we found this unit. Interviewer: How did they treat you when you were on your march? Oh, there were only four armed guards and the English speaking leader—good, they didn’t beat us, or anything else. They were—they helped us get across various rivers, they knew, obviously, where they were going and how long it would take us. 37:04 The one river we escaped in, we had to cross that river, we crossed that river the day before we escaped. They kept warning us about that river, but they said, ―Don’t worry, we’ll help you get across, we’ll carry the rice for you across the river‖, and it was deep, wide and no bridges, except they had a bridge. Their bridge was a steel cable about three, or four feet below the water, tight, all the way across the water, under the water. Part of it was a log and part of it was some cable and then there was a cable about a foot above the water that you couldn’t see from the air. You hung onto that cable, the water is up to about your waist and you just went along on that bridge underneath the water and that’s how they went across, that’s how the troops went back and forth, so a little bit of 14 �engineering out there to keep it camouflaged. 38:00 They were helpful and did their job. You know, I thank my lucky stars that we were captured by the North Vietnamese as opposed to the Vietcong that was in the area, because they did not take prisoners. These we were captured by professional soldiers, young, they were younger, some were, I’m guessing, were seventeen, eighteen, twenty years old, but they were very organized and very professional in their job, you know. Interviewer: What were your accommodations like when you were with them, traveling? You sleep out I the open, raining, cold, on the ground. 39:00 And three of us slept together, front to back, front to back on the ground and about every hour we would rotate and put another person in the middle and we would take turns on the outside and keep doing that, because it was so cold at night. Thirty-five to forty degrees was the average night time temperature up in the mountains and raining lots of times, so you’re just shivering and shivering and wet. The guards had little tents, hammocks that they would put between the trees, but we’re on the ground, we’d just lie on the ground. In that three plus week period, I went from two hundred and fifteen pounds to a hundred and fifty five pounds when I checked into the first hospital they took us to. 40:02 I had a wound on my foot, infection, but you were burning so many calories and that’s where—the rice didn’t help you and just keeping warm you’re burning calories, so that’s where the weight loss came. The movement and then you’re just cold and shivering, so your body is trying to generate heat. That’s what I thought was why we were losing weight so fast, and you didn’t drink water, you didn’t dare drink their water. In the evening they would finish cooking the rice, we all shared the big pot, took turns, all of us, guards, captives, all 15 �captives shared and when the rice was done they’d fill it up with water and throw in a few handfuls of tea leaves and boil it, and then we all drank that tea, you know, because we figured it was going to be safe then. 41:00 the guards said, ―Don’t drink the water, wait until we cook this rice and make the tea, then drink the tea‖, so that’s the only water we had. Interviewer: Did you have dysentery or anything like that? No, I don’t know what you call it, I think it was very common, at least I did and a few others, and I did not have a bowel movement for sixteen days. I’m sure part of it’s the emotion and part of it’s the—I’m guessing your body might have shut down a little bit, or whatever, but didn’t ever have the urge to go. You’re eating this rice and that’s the only medical problem, that and the infection. 42:02 Interviewer: How did you get the infection in your foot? By walking on the rocks and different things, back when we first left town. Interviewer: Before they gave your boots back? Yes, before they gave our boots back for that long march. They marched us for three, or four, days barefoot, because they didn’t want you to escape, you know. Interviewer: where did you go from there, after you got picked up from the Marines? Yes, they kept on calling the Marines to come and get us, because that was a marine unit and they wouldn’t come to get us, so this young captain said, ―Well, to heck with that noise‖, and they called a unit of the 101st Airborne, army, and these guys said, ―We’ll be right over‖, so they came right over, picked the two of us up, brought their mail for them, brought big bags of mail that the unit hadn’t had for a week, or so, or a couple of weeks, 16 �and they brought some rations for them, just as if they were a marine unit. 43:02 there was a lady, a Vietnamese lady that was in the camp, I’m not sure what her job was, but she got a ride with us when we left and they took us to Phu Bai, a military unit that was close, a compound that was close. In the 101st Airborne group, was a helicopter, it was a gunship, had room enough for us, the three of us, in the middle of it, the doors were open with a door gunner and the pilot and co-pilot up front. They picked us up and I thought they were going to fly us straight to Phu Bai about ten miles away. I’m just guessing that’s where, but no, these fellows were flying just above the trees and zigzagging back and forth, back and forth, so I said, ―What are you guys doing? Why aren’t we going straight?‖ Well, they were just looking for some action and I thought, ―That’s pretty good‖, the Marines didn’t want to come in there, but This army group thought they would just have a little fun that day. 44:04 We didn’t see anything, but we got there and got put into a hospital. Members of our unit, we were all part of the same group, and they started debriefing us. We took showers, of course, and all that for the first time, and we slept with tape recorders for a couple nights there, and tape recorders were running all the time in case we mumbled something, or whatever, you know, debriefing us. Then we went from there to Da Nang for a day or so, and then to another hospital and from there we got flown down to Saigon. That was another couple weeks down there in the hospital at Long Binh. Interviewer: What was the main reason they had you hospitalized so much? Was it weight loss? 45:00 Weight loss and infection and everything else, yeah, and checking us out thoroughly, plus the debriefing. The debriefing took a good couple of weeks, you know, constantly going 17 �over and over what we saw, describing everyone, all of our captors, the people that were captured with us, obviously their names, everything we knew about them, our captors, what the NVA was like, how many, who they were and even markings. It was just so much information to give, there was an awful lot and maybe we were trained to be very observant, I don’t know--routes, and buildings and everything to be helpful, just to be helpful, you know. We finally got that report finished and mine was twenty-eight pages. 46:02 I had to read it and It was single spaced and twenty-eight pages and they had to go through and proof it, and proof it, to make sure they got it right and then sign it. Interviewer: What did you do after that? They gave us a choice and they said, the Army--and we met some high ranking officials and stuff , because we, at the time, 1968, they told us we were the tenth and eleventh prisoners to escape in the whole history of the war. That’s all, from the time it started, heavily started, back in the early sixties, you know, so we were kind of the oddities there. They came in one day and said, ―You’re going to get a choice, the choice of an assignment in Vietnam, or the choice of assignment anywhere else in the world‖. 47:03 they knew I came from Germany and the other fellow, he was assigned in the states, I think it was in Portland, Oregon, so he said, ―You get three choices, give me your three choices right now‖, and I said, ―I’ll take Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as my first choice, Chicago second, and Minneapolis/St. Paul the third, my family was close and all that. Okay, they took right down and the other fellow says, ―Portland, Oregon, Portland, Oregon, Portland, Oregon‖, and he was from New Jersey, but anyway, so we got our first choices. They shipped us back and I had a year or so, a year and a half, a year and four months to go before I was—my three years were up. So, I’m back in the army again and 18 �I’m in the Milwaukee field office. It was an eight man unit there, civilian clothes and because I was coming in they had to kick somebody else out of that office and send them someplace else. 48:07 One of the civilians I would guess—so that year in the United States military intelligence was another whole different picture that I was not familiar with, so I got to see three different types of intelligence operations. I thought I was very fortunate, you know, Europe was different, the war zone was different in Vietnam, and now we’re in the United States and very interesting. It came down to the end ,in 1969, to get released and then they made me big offers to stay in, you know, re-up bonus money and the choice of assignments, more schooling, and much more rank. 49:02 I said, ―No‖, so I left the military in 1969 and went back to Stout, to Wisconsin Stout and got a master degree in communications technology and got married and started having children and ended up here in Michigan. Interviewer: Did you know about the war protests going on over here when you were in Vietnam? Yes, we saw it going over. When I flew to Vietnam we left from the Oakland army base near San Francisco. There was a lot of protesting done there and that was in 1967. When we came back from Vietnam we landed in San Francisco—a big three hundred passenger, both trips, over and back, a big three hundred passenger commercial airline we were on and most of them were military people that were on there. 50:07 They were in uniform, all services, all ranks, and some civilians. To and from Vietnam, we stopped in Hawaii, and that kind of thing, we stopped in Guam, you know, and we came back to San Francisco, the plane lands out on the tarmac, not up at the terminal, but out on the tarmac. We walked down the stairs and across—a couple of hundred yards across to the terminal, 19 �and the airline people said, ―Now, when you get to the terminal, when you walk in that gate, expect to find an awful lot of people there, protesters and stuff, stay away from them. We’ll have guards lines up and ropes, so you stay within the ropes, don’t get over them‖, so sure enough, we—and there were fifty, or so. 51:02 For every plane coming in, that was their job, to harass the troops. We were getting spit at, yelled at, and stuff thrown at us, signs, you know, but spitting mostly. I’m walking in and I have my uniform on—I’m walking in with a bunch of other fellow that I don’t know what— Marines and Army and stuff, and I thought these guys—these guys were hardened killers and just served a year in Vietnam, in their units, and I thought, ―Jeez, I wonder if these protesters really know how close—these guys wouldn’t think twice, if they were touched, or grabbed, of turning around and attacking them, eliminating them with their bare hands, not with guns‖. 52:12 But, how dangerous for those protesters it could be—you know, these fellows coming back from a war zone, they’re—they have a whole different outlook on life, because they’ve been, for the most part, killing people for a year. Some of the jobs, not all of them, but some of them were like that. Anyway, that was really hard to listen to, you know I think because of our experience, we were given a month off before we were to report to our next assignment in Milwaukee, so I went home and I don’t even know what happened to that month. 53:00 You just came from the experience I had and what really happened, and I’m here, I’m back home, sitting in my parents living room and watching TV at night getting the update on the war and the war is still going on. Walter Cronkite is showing the battle for Hue every night and how they’re trying to recapture the city and I was just there. I was just in all that sort of stuff, you know, a few weeks before and it just—―What just happened to my life?‖ That’s what you think. 20 �Anyway, you report to Milwaukee in a month and I had a real good assignment there. My commanding officer was a fellow that had just returned from Vietnam in a different military intelligence unit, so we had a lot in common and we got along great. 54:04 It was a good experience, it really was. Interviewer: Do you think you might have had an advantage, being older than the average eighteen? Maybe, being twenty-five, yeah, I don’t know, just—probably. Interviewer: How do you feel about that whole experience, now, looking back over the years? How has it affected your life? Well, I think it’s had a pretty good outlook, I mean I had a—I think from my perspective, in the jobs I’ve had, I see co-workers getting very, very frustrated, or uptight, or have high levels of anxiety in their jobs to get the job done right, and worrying about this, or this, I never had that. 55:08 I thought, ―Gosh, what we’re worrying about here on our job is not a life or death situation, we’ve got more things to worry about than that‖, and I think that helped me prepare, take me through the day, and the months. I was a professional educator. The last twelve years I worked, I was the assistant superintendent of schools and you’re dealing with boards of education and all types of things on a professional level, and the stress level is high, but I never let it bother me, not a bot, you know. So, I think it probably helped me. Interviewer: Did your family do anything special when you came home? 56:00 My dad was an old first sergeant, very, very tough and had served in the army in the invasion of North Africa and ended up in Sicily, in Naples, Pala Naples, and yeah, there were some parties in the town, the small town I was from, some nice parties and stuff. 21 �57:10 Excuse me—but up until about five years ago, my mother and father were the only ones that said, ―Welcome home‖. I think there was some other-- maybe high school--some of my friends might have said ―Welcome home‖, but no one else did, you know. Yeah, there were some nice—in that month I was home there were a few events and they wanted me to speak and it was difficult for me to speak. 58:00 Over the course of my professional career I was asked to speak a couple different times to high school classes, history classes, and maybe a few others, but there I’m talking to some students, high school students, about ancient history. They weren’t even born yet, let alone and that’s—it would be like the interest I might have had as a kid in the 1st WW, or the Spanish American War. It happened decades ago, so it meant nothing to them, you know, they just had to sit there and listen to this guest speaker who came in, that the teacher got in , but some kids were interested and some asked good questions, but I guess that, you know. Like I said, I had a year to go in the army yet and had to get back in the game, you had an obligation to do. 59:05 About that time, in Milwaukee, we were having some riots, there were riots here in Detroit. There were riots, if you want to call them riots, in Chicago at the 1968 presidential convention. Being an intelligence unit, civilian clothes, we had to come over and help the units that were over here in Detroit and Chicago. I was assigned to guard, but not really guard, because the secret service was also in that game, but to be on the outskirts of a lot of the action in the crowd, and assigned to Senator Musky while he was in and around Chicago. These were all the jobs the military was providing, working with the FBI office and the secret service offices. :09 In the riots in Milwaukee, about Martin Luther King’s death and in Detroit with the burnings and stuff, we had to go over and help those units out. The intelligence unit is 22 �not very big, you know eight or ten men and that’s it, there’s not a whole company of them, so you’re questioning all kinds of people, and taking pictures--all these ―rebel rousers‖ from out of town that would bust in there to cause the trouble--from the south, or wherever they were coming from. We had to identify these people, and in essence something that was changed because of that, shortly after that, and the Ellsberg Papers, we were spying on American citizens and the military had to stop that, as a result of those kinds of actions. 1:00 Students for Democratic Society, we had to keep an eye on that group that were in the various colleges, and Madison, Wisconsin was a big, another big group over there. I mean, it—the country was going through quite a change, you know, with these protests and the whole bit. I guess from an experience level, it was really something to be a part of it, just trying to do what you’re told to do, and now that’s all changed, history and the operation policies all changed and the military can’t do that anymore. Now it’s civilian agencies that are in charge of that, not the military. Interviewer: Anything else you would like to talk about your experience in Vietnam? 2:00 Five years later, May of 1973, I get an invitation, beautiful calligraphy, an invitation to the White House for dinner. I was married then, two kids then, and the government flew my wife and I out for five days in Washington DC, dinner at the White House with the President, and all the ex-prisoners that were released in February and March from Hanoi were there and there were close to six hundred ex-prisoners and their wives, or their girlfriends, or their mothers. The State Department put this big function on, and like I said, it was four or five, days we were there. 3:00 We were at the State Department for some real nice meetings with the President and Secretary Kissinger, a lot of military 23 �officials and then we were at various functions at the place we were staying. The put us up in the Washington Hilton, and the other big hotels, because there were so many people, we’re talking fourteen, fifteen hundred people, counting the spouses, or whatever. I got to meet the fellows I was captured with, the ones that survived. Three were killed, died on the trail, heading to Hanoi. None of the group I was with was kept in Hanoi, the famous ―Hanoi Hilton‖. The intelligence team members that I was with were kept about sixty miles north of Hanoi, in a small village. 4:07 Five years and two months, with two to three years, each one of them, in solitary confinement and no contact with any other Americans. All of them had real bad intestinal problems from the food and disease and whatever else, and mental problems. It was good to see them; they didn’t know that we had made it, so we had some nice parties with those folks and their wives, and stuff. We were told, when they got on the planes in Hanoi to be sent back, one of the first things they said was ―What ever happened to Hayhurst, whatever happened to Hayhurst?‖ They said, ―He made it back, he made it out‖, and they were real happy. 5:03 I got to talk with them and I said, ―When we left that morning and took off, what did yo folks do? What really happened to the rest of you?‖ he said, ―The guards didn’t know you were gone until later in the afternoon‖, because this is a long skinny trail going up and all over and they can’t keep track of the twenty-one of us spread out, maybe, over three hundred yards probably, and they can’t see—and they weren’t counting or whatever, you know. We’d been together with them for how many days then, and they weren’t worried about any of us attacking tem, or escaping, so the guards were real lax. They said, ―No, they didn’t know you were gone until later in the day and we’d taken your bags of rice and divvied it out, so there was nothing left‖, so they covered for us, but 24 �they were told that we were finally captured by another unit on the trail and executed immediately, so nobody else try it. 6:06 That is the story they were told, but they were tickled to death that we made it. We’ve been in contact over the years, and it’s been a very good association. All the ex POW’s from Vietnam, once a year, have a—you go to the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida for a physical, and there’s been data collected on these six hundred—now there’s probably five hundred and fifty left, because some have passed away, from all services. You don’t all go together and you have a whole year to get down there and go through a three, or four, day physical, where they’re collecting information on mental and physical conditions, so they have a big research study, so the fellows that I knew, we try to time ourselves, so we can get there at the same time and have some fun for the week and go back home, and that’s been a nice experience. Interviewer: Anything else? No, I can’t think of anything. Interviewer: Thank you You’re welcome 7:30 25 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hayhurst, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hayhurst, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Hayhurst was born in Wisconsin in 1943. After completing college, he enlisted in the Army in 1966 and trained in military intelligence. He was initially posted to Germany, but requested a transfer to Vietnam in 1967. He was assigned to a military intelligence unit based in Hue. His unit was small and headquartered in the city rather than on a military base, so when the Tet Offensive began in 1968, his unit were besieged in their house and eventually captured by the North Vietnamese and smuggled out of Hue. While being marched overland toward Laos, he and one other prisoner escaped their captors and made it back to American lines. After extensive debriefing, he accepted reassignment to the United States for the last year of his enlistment, and was discharged in 1969. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Serafino, Meg (Interviewer) Lest We Forget Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-17 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HayhurstR1031V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9d6b997303099e904d6794b05377bd2b.jpg 6af7891a87752969af49ce07543dd921 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HaynesPat Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982 Title A name given to the resource Haynes, Pat Description An account of the resource Pat Haynes, Administrative Assistant Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1982s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/98d4c011387b89363e9b775ce4dee83e.mp4 a600b7110b25adf10bccc1e249a061d3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af1c7a6917f1049a7430f4f2d8f2763e.pdf 022494108f7cd560f473c253360977ab PDF Text Text Haywood, Breyound Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Iraq War Interviewee’s Name: Breyound Haywood Length of Interview: (1:23:23) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Lyndsay Curatolo Interviewer: “We’re talking today with Breyound Haywood of Lowell, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. We’d like to begin at the beginning, so let’s start with where and when were you born?” I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, February 28, 1973. Interviewer: “Did you grow up in Grand Rapids or did you move around?” For a few years I lived in [the] East Kentwood area, and then I moved to Ada when I was about four. Then I grew up, went to high school when I lived in Ada. Interviewer: “And, what did your family do for a living while you were growing up?” My mom was a stay-at-home mom. My father worked at Georgia-Pacific as a laborer and that was out in Walker. He worked there with his dad, so that was a nice, steady place to work. Interviewer: “And then, did you finish high school?” Yes, I did. I graduated from Grand Rapids Christian in 1991. Interviewer: “And what did you do after you got out?” When I first got done with high school I was going to go to Grand Rapids Junior College, but I signed up for classes and I never went. So, I worked at Brandywine Restaurant in East Grand Rapids for a little while, and then I decided that I really didn’t want to do that. So, a few of my friends were fans of the Grateful Dead and a couple of us bought an RV and before they left, were like, “Hey, put in $1500. We’re gonna go follow around the Grateful Dead for a while.” And I kind of went the opposite direction and joined the Marine Corps later. (2:01). �Interviewer: “So, when do you join the Marine Corps?” I left for boot camp in January of ‘93, but I joined about six months earlier–– the Delayed Entry Program. Interviewer: “And why did you select the Marine Corps?” You know, they had some commercials. I was into athletics. I had an uncle that was in the Marine Corps–– I also had a grandfather in the Army Air Corps. But, it just intrigued me as being a little bit like a challenge. It’s a challenging thing. As my uncle might have said, more people could make it through the Army than in the Marine Corps. It just appealed to me and the bases were on the coast of California [and] North Carolina, so I’d thought I’d give it a shot. Interviewer: “So, where do you go for boot camp?” I went to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. Usually, this side of the Mississippi we would have gone to North Carolina–– Interviewer: “Parris Island, South Carolina.” Yes. Parris Island, right. But, I went to–– probably a numbers thing–– and so I went in January to Southern California. Interviewer: “Now, when I talk to people who went out there in the Vietnam Era, there’s a particular pattern or sequence that normally happens with what time of day they arrive and showing up at boot camp, and so forth. So, take us basically from Michigan to San Diego. How do you get out there?” Well, we took a bus to Lansing where they had the military and processing station. We stayed the night there and the next morning–– provided you passed all your physicals and all that–– got on a plane and flew out to the San Diego Airport. (4:06). Interviewer: “So, were you on a regular commercial flight at that point?” Yes. It was a regular commercial flight and I remember I had the envelope with all the people’s names in it. I had to take a roll call on the plane. Interviewer: “How do you figure you got that job?” �You know, I don’t remember. I think it just got handed to me. I might have been the older one because I was like 19. Interviewer: “So what time of day do you show up in San Diego?” It was daylight. I know they were three hours behind us. It would probably be the mid-afternoon. Interviewer: “Did they take you right to the Depot from there?” You know, that’s a little blurred. I remember–– yes–– getting on the bus. At first, everybody was very cordial and then once you got on the bus [it] started boot camp. Interviewer: “So what happens then?” Well, the voice gets elevated a little bit and the sense of urgency starts to get installed in you then. Interviewer: “My understanding is that the Depot is pretty close to the airport.” It is. Interviewer: “Yeah. In the Vietnam Era they drove you around in circles at night for a while before they took you there, but did you get to go straight there?” Yeah we went straight there. One thing I will remember is while at basic training, any time a plane took off–– if you were outside–– they would make you stop, they would make you scream out so you couldn’t hear the airplane. Interviewer: “Now, what kind of reception do you get at the Depot?” You know, it was very fast. It was like, “Here’s this, here’s that.” We went to a reception area for a few days–– waiting for probably enough people to form a platoon. And there was a bunch of instruction going on there, but it seemed like there was always some manual labor that needed to be done. (6:13). Interviewer: “Now, the guys in here earlier talked about coming out and they’re rushed off a bus and they stand on yellow footprints.” Yes. They did that then and that was kind of an intense thing that was like, “Yeah, okay. I’m really here. I’m really doing it now. This is it.” �Interviewer: “And, are they yelling at you the whole time?” I do not remember yelling when you’re on the footprints, but before and after absolutely. Interviewer: “But how many days do you think you’re hanging around before training actually starts?” It was probably about four days, I think, for us. Like I said, I think they just had to get enough people for a platoon. Interviewer: “So, once things start, now what happens?” Well, I mean, first thing is you have to learn how to get up right when the light comes on. You know, as a teenager, making your bed is not a big priority and I just remember that was one of the things–– one of the first things they did–– is teach you how to make your bed. And if you didn’t do it right, they would tear it apart and you would start over. And you never wanted to be the last one finished. Interviewer: “And what kinds of things are they actually teaching you when you’re first there?” When you’re first there they teach you about the rank structure. They teach you a bunch of acronyms. They teach you how to march, how to properly do a pull-up and sit-ups and how to properly wear a uniform and shave and those sorts of things. Interviewer: “And what happens when you mess up?” When I was in boot camp, you got extra physical fitness things to do. They would yell at you to reinforce whatever they were telling you–– try and instill that in there. But, most of the time it was push-ups and those sorts of things. (8:27). Interviewer: “What kind of people were training you? In terms of how old they were, what kind of backgrounds did they have, the extent that you knew anything about them?” In the Marine Corps they were fairly young drill instructors. They ranged in ranks from E4 to E6 mainly. There were some more senior people there, but I would have to say that everybody–– all the drill instructors in my platoon–– were under 30. Interviewer: “And did they have a kinder and gentler approach than what you saw in the movies?” �No. No. Full Metal Jacket would probably be an accurate representation–– only there would have been four of them instead of one you see primarily. They see-saw a couple others, but from day-to-day you would have three to four and then the senior drill instructor. They made it plain to you that you didn’t want to see him actually out there, starting to train, because that meant you guys were messing up. Interviewer: “Now, how long is the basic training?” It’s about three months. Interviewer: “Now, does it get more sophisticated as you go on? Do you get into weapons training or other things?” Well, the first month was a lot of physical fitness, marching, just basic instruction, first-aid. Second phase was weapons qualifications and you go out and do field exercises, stay in the tent, do the marching up the hills. So, there was a lot. The second phase was a lot more hands-on and outside. (10:21). Interviewer: “And there’s a third phase after that?” So, the first phase is at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot. The second phase is at Camp Pendleton for us. Interviewer: “And where is Camp Pendleton relative to the depot?” It’s about 50-miles north. So, you got to take a bus and see people on your way up which was–– you know. Interviewer: “Alright. So you have four weeks at Camp Pendleton and then the last part. Is that back at the Depot again?” It was back at the Depot. That was more like polishing up the skills that we learned and graduation. Interviewer: “Now, how easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the Marine Corps?” It was fairly easy. Like I said, some people didn’t have an athletic background [and] maybe had a disadvantage because that was probably the hardest thing that people had to adjust to, was being able to be physically fit. Once you got that out of the way, it was easier to work on the other things. �Interviewer: “And did people have trouble with the discipline? Following orders?” There would be. But, they were trained really well. I mean, we had, I don’t know, out of 50 or so, we maybe had one that just couldn’t cut it because [they] just couldn’t handle that. People telling you what to do all the time. Interviewer: “And were there people who dropped out or got hurt because of the physical stuff?” There was. I had a friend of mine I later met–– he actually went in a month before I did–– and the guy was injured for about a month and then ended up joining us in the end. I got injured for a couple of weeks, but I was retained so I didn’t get recycled which was great. (12:21). Interviewer: “So you were far enough along that they’d thought you’d be okay or you had time to catch up?” Yeah. I don’t know exactly why they spared me. During the first phase they have a platoon guide–– which I got the job. It’s kind of like a platoon leader sort of thing, and the first thing when we went to Camp Pendleton was I got injured. So, I was the guide for the first phase and then got there–– and I think the position I had made them retain me. Interviewer: “So, you kind of got through all of that. You have… I mean, had you picked a specialization for yourself or do you wait for them to tell you what you’re going to do?” Right. When I went in, you had to pick three things. I–– despite the advice of the recruiters–– I wanted to really be in the infantry. So, I picked all three as infantry tech jobs. But, when you go into boot camp they also test you for special skills and they found out that I played an instrument. Perhaps the first mistake I made in the military was when I–– they didn’t force me to try out–– but they convinced me it was in my best interest to try out. And after the tryout, I declined to go to the concert band. I played the piano from when I was five until I left my parents house. Interviewer: “So, the Marines were upset that you don’t want to be a piano player?” They were. Interviewer: “So basically, you were gonna get assigned to the infantry at that point?” Yes. Interviewer: “So after those 12 weeks were up, now what happens to you?” �You’d get about a week off. And then for the Marines–– all Marines regardless of your MOS–– had to go to Marine Combat Training which was about a month long. Interviewer: “And where was that?” That was back at Camp Pendleton. So, that was less intense as far as having drill instructors. You got Saturday off, which was a big deal–– [and] half of Sunday. So, that was good training. (14:43). Interviewer: “And what were you actually doing?” You polish up on the small arms. Learn how to use the heavier weapons–– the Mark-19–– which was a machine gun for grenades, basically, and those types of weapons systems. We just learned a little bit of team and squad tactics. Interviewer: “And what was the standard infantry weapon at that point?” It was the M16A2. Interviewer: “So, slightly improved from Vietnam.” Yeah, a little bit. It’s really–– I had that for a long time. It was very reliable. I mean, they were trained–– you know, the average Marine could hit a person from 500-yards away without any assistance devices on the weapon itself. So, that’s pretty good–– I think. Interviewer: “And how long does the combat training go on?” It’s about 4 weeks. Interviewer: “And then do you get assigned to a unit from there?” You do not because everybody has to do the combat training and then after the combat training you go to your specific school. In my case, it was across the street at the infantry school which is basically the same thing as Marine Combat Training, but twice as long. (16:08). Interviewer: “Do you have more extended periods out in the field or things like that?” Yes. Instead of maybe going for two-days, you go for the whole week. Or, just more times with the weapons, more drilling with the squad, and team tactics. �Interviewer: “And are you being trained by anybody who has any practical combat experience, or is the timing wrong for that? It’s after Desert Storm at that point, but that was pretty short.” Yeah. I don’t remember. Most of the guys were fairly young, so if I look at their rank I would probably say they probably had not had much combat experience. Interviewer: “So, when do you actually finish all of the training? So you’re back–– you have your infantry school. When are you done with that?” So infantry school was about eight weeks long, and then towards the end–– when you’re going to graduate–– you get your unit assignment. And mine happened to be three miles down the road. Interviewer: “Okay, and what unit did you join?” I joined the 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment right there at Camp Pendleton. Interviewer: “And you know what Marine Division that was a part of?” 1st Marine Division. Interviewer: “And what were they doing at that point?” That particular regiment that was in–– we had four battalions and they would train through a cycle. So, we would be deployed to the Pacific Ocean area of the Middle East. So, while one unit was going out, one was coming back. One was in a full training cycle, and the other was maybe in a recovery cycle. Between the four units, one of us was always deployed. (18:25). Interviewer: “So, where was your battalion in the sequence when you joined it?” I got there in 1993, so it was probably six months before I deployed for the first time. So, they were in the “train-up” cycle. Interviewer: “For clarification purposes, you said you enlisted in June of ‘93––” January. Interviewer: “January. That was it. There we go, that works better. So that time there, when you’re on the base, what’s daily life like?” �Daily life is [you] wake up about six, go to breakfast, you come back and do physical fitness. And from there, depending on if there’s any administrative requirements for the company that you’re in, you’re going to start working on that. But, being in the infantry, a lot of the time you’re going to go and you’re going to do physical training twice a day. Or, you’re going to go work on cleaning your weapons or you’re going to go out for the day in a squad and try to find the other squad to practice tactics and stuff. Interviewer: “Do you ever participate in anything that the trainees are going through? Or is that a separate cadre that does all of that?” It is separate. At the time when I was [there], they didn’t like to mix recruits with Marines. Interviewer: “Is there a point in the process where you go from being a recruit to a Marine?” Yes, and that would have been in the third phase of boot camp. They made a big thing about, “This recruit requests permission to do this.” When you’re in the third phase, you’re not doing that any longer. (20:25). Interviewer: “Now, you are there with them for a certain chunk and then basically–– then you’re living on the base. Do you get liberty or whatever? Can you go off base?” So, unless you’re going out in the field overnight, then it’s almost a six-to-six job. So, by dinner time, usually, you wouldn’t have anything else you’d have to do–– unless you had to stand watch somewhere. So, yes. You would have liberty everyday and usually on the weekends, unless there was training that had to be done. Interviewer: “Now, are you far enough away from things at Camp Pendleton that it would take some effort to find something to do if you left the base?” No. Oceanside–– they had a bus system. A lot of the guys didn’t buy cars when we were there, but they had a bus that would go to Oceanside in San Clemente and then you could take the train to San Diego if you wanted to–– the Amtrak train. Interviewer: “Which I guess would work on the weekend, not so much overnight.” Right. Yeah, absolutely. Interviewer: “Now, did you go on deployment with your unit?” �I did. Interviewer: “And what was that like? Or what happened?” It [was] probably two months before the whole battalion got deployed. They were trying to start a new concept for a new platoon. They had the–– there’s a lot of specialized forces. They got the Army Rangers and the unit I was in was a Zodiac Assault Company and they wanted to come up with another specialized platoon. So, they basically drafted a few of the Zodiac guys and–– the other unit was like helicopter trained troops–– and then the other part was amphibious tracked troops. The last ones were like the heavier weapons with the mortars and the heavy machine guns and stuff. (22:40). Interviewer: “Now Zodiac, that is referring to the inflatable rubber boats?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay. So, small motor boats––” Small motor boats. So, the primary goal for that would’ve been to assault a beach objective or like an oil platform or something like that. Interviewer: “So, they’re pulling guys out of the different companies and trying to create this other platoon. So you’re a part of that?” Right. Yes. So, they wanted to do that so that the platoon had all four of the elements within just one platoon rather than having to pull… Interviewer: “And what’s the point of doing that?” You know, I don’t know. They called it Special Operations K-Pool Platoon and we also–– and we had our name for it. We called it the “slaves on call platoon.” It seems like we had a lot of extra duty because we were no longer affiliated with a company. We were a detachment, so were really, like, kind of, on our own. Interviewer: “So where would your orders come from?” In a battalion they would have–– it would have come from the operations who we were actually under–– the S3. So the S3 had the Scout Sniper Platoon and then they had us. Interviewer: “When the deployment starts–– what actually happens to you? You get on ships?” �We get on the ship and once you get on the ship, it’s hard to do a lot of training. So, there’s a lot of weapons cleaning–– like all the time. There’s a little bit of reading. I remember we had to do book reports on famous battles–– which I did not anticipate having to do when I first wanted to join the infantry. But, we would eventually end up on an island or Tinian and then we’d go do some training, come back. Go to Singapore, do some training. So, we kind of bounced around from place to place like that, going out to train three, four, five [days], a week at a time. (24:54). Interviewer: “And what kind of ship were you on?” I was on a–– it was the USS Tripoli and the USS Tarawa. Tripoli was a ship that had a helicopter squadron on it and also, at the time, had Harriers, which was a big deal at the time because they could take off vertically from the ship. Interviewer: “They’re jet-fighter aircraft, but they can take off by going straight up and don’t need a long runway.” Right. Yeah. Interviewer: “And the Tarawa–– was that a helicopter carrier?” Yes it was. Interviewer: “How long was this tour?” This tour is about six-months long. We stopped in a lot of places: Saudi Arabia, Kenya. We stopped in Somalia, which was the first time we had to land and perhaps perform for real. Interviewer: “What’s the context of that? Or what actually happens?” We went to Somalia in early ‘94 and it was sometime after they had the event–– the Black Hawk Down thing–– but they were relocating the embassy that was in Somalia to Mombasa in Kenya. So, we were there to help cover that movement. So we went ashore–– and it was kind of like a show for us–– “Hey, we’re here. Don’t mess with the guys that are leaving.” (26:33). Interviewer: “What do you remember about that, or what did you see there?” I remember that we were instructed that the bandits–– the Somali bandits are what they called them–– would likely try to use civilians as shields. And we had specific rules and engagement then. I also remember we went to a place–– I don’t remember exactly where it was now–– and �we had to dig in, anticipating seeing some of these guys. Ultimately, we never did, but digging in and making a fighting hole for the first time for real was pretty intimidating. Interviewer: “And then did you get to go ashore any place where you were on your own? So, did you get to tour anything?” Oh, absolutely. We got time off in Singapore and Phuket, Thailand–– United Arab Emirates. We stayed in Mombasa for about a month and so it was almost everyday for a month. We went to Saudi Arabia, Jordan. Interviewer: “Were there rules that you’re told what you can and can’t do when you go into these places?” Oh, absolutely. A lot of the Middle East countries–– they talked about [how] they were dry as in no alcohol. If you wanted to drink beers and stuff, you could do that right in front of the ship. They had–– they called it a beer garden–– and you could just stay there. But, they said when you had drinks like that they didn’t want you to leave. They didn’t want you to go into the town. And they didn’t want you to develop pictures in town either. (28:37). Interviewer: “Did they tell you not to talk to their women or anything like that?” I know that that would’ve been in something, especially in the Middle Eastern countries. Yeah. The other countries–– Thailand, Singapore, Kenya, no. Interviewer: “Now, are there any other particular things that happened in that tour that stand out in your memory.” We went to Hong Kong when it was still occupied by the British and we had a friendly game of rugby with the Royal Black Watch which was from Scotland. And that stood out to me because they were stationed there, they had their families there, and halfway through the game I remember we had to–– because they were so much better than we were–– we integrated the teams half and half. Then after the game, the person that played your position on the opposite team, they paired you up and they took you and showed you town. So, I thought that was pretty cool. Interviewer: “And when do you get back from that trip?” So, it would have been about six-months later. And they actually produce sort-of a yearbook for that, and it had the whole timeline. I can’t recall what month we got back. (30:06). �Interviewer: “Now, you don’t actually stay in the Marine Corps too much longer after that.” Right. I do one more deployment with the Marine Corps, so in 1996. Interviewer: “I guess, in the original clock you said it was through 03/94 or was it 03/96?” The deployment was through ‘94. But, I got out of the Marine Corps in March of ‘97. Interviewer: “‘97. Okay. Let me make sure I have my numbers there right. So, basically, you’re doing the whole hitch you signed up for.” Right. I did like three extra months. They kept firing my replacement. And when you get towards the end of your enlistment, you can take what they call terminal leave, which is you sign-out on vacation and you never come back. Well, in my case I put in [for] it, got approved, they fired my replacement, and then they would cancel my vacation. Interviewer: “Now, fired your replacement. So you’ve got a particular position now?” Right. Later on, I ended up–– the infantry battalions are always short on administrative and logistical personnel so I ended up doing mail, which was a really good job for me. I got my own office as a very young Marine. Interviewer: “What rank were you at that point?” I was an E3, so I was a Lance Corporal. So, I had that and I had one other guy that worked for me and we did the mail. It was all hand-sorted at that point. Interviewer: “And when did you get that job?” I got that, probably, on my way back from deployment. I, kind of, got marked for that job. So, it’d have been probably early ‘95. Interviewer: “So coming back from the second deployment.” No. Coming back from the first deployment. During the second deployment I did mail during that deployment. Interviewer: “Now, between deployments are you just back at Camp Pendleton again?” �Yeah. You go back to Camp Pendleton and when you first get back you’re kind of in a–– a lot of people take vacation, a lot of people will actually move around to different units/different jobs, you start getting a lot of the new people and then before you know it, you’re back into a training cycle to get ready to get deployed again. (32:41). Interviewer: “And is there any difference–– aside from having you get the mail job–– in terms of otherwise, your daily life for your second stint there at Camp Pendleton as opposed to the first? Do you see things any differently than you did before?” Yeah. It was a very big difference from being in the infantry than to be in one of the staff sections. It was a lot less intense. Especially with the training because the infantry guys were out doing training–– I was just doing the mail that way. So, my job got more monotonous–– more predictable, you know. I had a very set schedule where the other guys had more training and spur-of-the-moment lifestyle. Interviewer: “So, were you happy with this change or did you miss the rest of it?” I actually did–– I liked the change. I liked having a more predictable schedule. I like taking a shower every night. Interviewer: “So that was alright with you at that point. Then, now you get a second deployment. Does that follow pretty much the same system as the first or are there things that stand out that are different?” It’s pretty much the same. I mean, we had some interesting layovers with some operations that we had to do. Also, on my second deployment we were supposed to go to Australia but we ended up getting diverted to go to the Philippines–– which worked out for me because my uncle lived there. So, halfway around the world, at a last-minute stop, I was able to say, “Hey. I’m going to go to my uncle’s house.” So, that was really big for me–– being away from home for so long and then just happening to go someplace where I have relatives. It’s pretty cool. (34:56). Interviewer: “Where else did you stop on that tour?” A lot of it was the same, so Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, the East Coast of Africa, Bahrain, a lot of countries in the gulf again. Oman and Thailand again, Singapore. The ones that stood out right now. Interviewer: “Now, when you go ashore in different places, how do the civilians or the people around seem to view you or treat you?” �Well, most of it was actually pretty good because we were restricted to certain areas. And they treated us well because we always were cooped up and a lot of people wanted to spend a lot of money. So, they treated you very well. Interviewer: “Were there some places where you’d kind of go off on your own or be less restricted?” Pretty much when you get outside of the Persian Gulf, just about any other countries we went to. China–– we went to Hong Kong–– and Singapore, Thailand. We still had a zone, you know, we could go in, but as long as you could say, “Hey. I’m going to the Holiday Inn in Phuket, Thailand.” They’ll say okay. (36:21). Interviewer: “So when do you come back from that?” So that would have been–– I don’t remember the date, but I remember a football season was still in effect. Because that was one of the first things I did when I came back from that second deployment–– was went and saw a football game in San Diego. Interviewer: “Now, at this point, have you basically decided to leave the Marine Corps?” I did. I decided that I was probably going to go in the Reserves afterwards because you always had a commitment of up to eight years, and I felt like if they could call me back, then I might as well practice the skill they’re going to call me back for. So, I decided that I was probably going to join the Marine Corps Reserve–– probably back in [the] Grand Rapids area. Interviewer: “Now, when do you actually get discharged from the Marine Corps?” So, I think it was March of ‘97. Interviewer: “Then, so what do you wind up doing at that point?” Well, a few months before that I actually met my wife in Long Beach, California. So, I ended up joining the Army National Guard in California. The Marine Reserve was too stringent as far as the annual training period–– I had gotten a job and was selling pools and pool supplies and of course during the summer is when you’re going to do most of your work. And I remember the Army National Guard was going to be more flexible with the summer training, saying [I] could do it in the spring, [I] can do it in the winter. (38:14). Interviewer: “So, you join the Army National Guard–– do you have to now get Army training?” �No, but I should have. There’s a lot of terminology and customs and–– just, it’s different. There’s some similarities, but it was a learning curve. They were used to that because the Army Guard is made up of all kinds of different people–– from the Navy Guard people, Army, Marine Corps, whatever. It’s mixed so, I think, they have a better understanding of it. Unlike when I went to active duty for the Army a few years later. It was a bit–– that terminology block manifested itself pretty much there. Interviewer: “So where were you living in California at that point?” I was living south of Camp Pendleton. Interviewer: “But still in the San Diego area?” Yes. Interviewer: “So, how long do you stay with the guard unit then?” So that was probably about a year. And then, when I was getting married, I needed to get a better job so I ended up–– I was looking for jobs and I ended up coming back to Holland, Michigan to work for Prince Corporation. So, I transferred to the Michigan Army Guard–– back to the infantry. (40:02). Interviewer: “And so when do you get back there?” Let’s see–– I got married in ‘98, so I would have to say it would have been about September of ‘98. Interviewer: “And then it’s not too long after that that you wind up active duty in the Army. So, how does that happen?” Well, it happened a couple of ways. One, my wife got homesick for California and when I was looking to get jobs out there, I really didn’t know where to look as far as getting a decent job. But, I knew they had some Army bases around, so I went and I looked and they had one that was in Fort Irwin, which was about two hours from where my wife’s family lived. So I said, “Well, if you want to go out to Fort Irwin in the desert, I’ll do an enlistment there.” And so that’s what I did. Interviewer: “Now, when you go out there are you infantry or something else?” �I am in transportation now. So, I had to go back through Army training–– and this is where the terminology difficulties came into play. Interviewer: “So what happened?” My first day that I showed up for Army training–– in the Marine Corps they did not have drill instructors at schools. The Army at the time had drill sergeants at basic training and at the schools. So, when I got there, I walked up to–– what I later found out was a drill sergeant–– I told him, “Hey. I’m looking for Alpha Company. Can you help me out? Where is it at?” I’m in my uniform [and] he was in a physical fitness uniform, so I couldn’t tell what rank he was or anything. And he looks at me and he tells me to “beat my face,” which is a thing that they said at basic training in the Army. It means do push-ups, because, you know, you do push-ups till you touch your nose. I guess that’d be “beat your face.” So I told him, “Look man, if you don’t want to help me out just say it.” So, I didn’t know he was a drill sergeant and I walked away from him and that led to some further instruction. (42:40). Interviewer: “So, how quickly did you adjust, I guess?” Probably–– it was like that for the first few days and finally I spoke to the senior enlisted person, the First Sergeant, and then I said, “Look, I was in the Marine Corps. I’m in the Army now. Is there a book or something? Is there something that I can get because there’s all these terms [and] I just don’t know what they are.” And when I asked, most people looked at me like I’m retarted or something because they see that I have a certain rank. And they say, “There’s no way you can get that rank and not know these terms.” So, he worked with me for about a day or so and gave me a list of terms, and from then on it got better. Interviewer: “Did you make peace with the original drill instructor or just not see him anymore?” Yeah. I just didn’t really see him that much anymore. But, I’m sure he found out, you know, the whole story there–– or the rest of the story. Interviewer: “Yeah, because you were really the new guy, but not a kid.” Right. Interviewer: “So, what rank are you at this point?” I was a specialist–– an E4. So, when I was in the Marine Corps I was a Corporal–– which, you know, was considered an NCO–– and in the Army E4 is not. So, it was a little bit of a pride thing �to take the step down, even though it was the same pay. Then, when you switch over like that, you kind of start from day one as being an E4 again. Now you’re E4 with one day of service. But, it was still all right. (44:33). Interviewer: “Now, what unit were you with now that you’re on active duty?” I was with the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment and I was in the Supply and Transportation Platoon. So, we had vehicles and supplies that we would take out to the troops that were training. Interviewer: “And what kind of vehicles did you have?” They were like the military’s version of semi-trucks. They would haul tanks. We had a platoon that would haul tanks, we had a platoon that hauled water and fuel, and ones that had these trailers that had showers. It was like the whole trailer had eight showers in it. Interviewer: “And this was at Fort Irwin.” Fort Irwin is the National Training Center. It’s in the desert. Units would come out there for about a month at a time and the training unit there–– we would do ten training cycles a year and then we’d get Christmas time off and one month in the summer where you wouldn’t have any units in for training. Interviewer: “But is your regiment based there?” Yes. Interviewer: “So, that is your permanent base and other people come through and train there?” Yes. Interviewer: “And, how did that assignment work out?” It was okay. The job wasn’t bad. Once again, because I was in a transportation unit this time, they were also short on administrative people, so they found my background and I was with the transportation unit for like two weeks and then they put me in the orderly room where they did administrative stuff. (46:29). Interviewer: “So your mail clerk time came back to haunt you?” �It did. It did. Once again though, this was better for me because I wasn’t doing the grunt work anymore. Interviewer: “So you’re not going out and doing as many exercises anymore. Do you have a regular, daily schedule?” Right. Absolutely. Interviewer: “So you had like a grown-up job type of thing.” Yeah. Interviewer: “All right. Now, you’re doing this when 9/11 happens?” Yes. Interviewer: “So, tell me what happens that day and afterward?” So, the day before 9/11–– two days before 9/11 I was on leave. My wife had to have surgery so I was taking care of my wife. She’s on medication, she’s been up half the night. So, in the morning she’s out on the couch and she said, “The Pentagon’s on fire.” And I said, “That’s nice honey. Let me turn the TV off.” Because at that point, I hadn’t heard anything yet. But, it was about half-an-hour after that I got a phone call saying, “I know you’re on leave, but you can’t leave the base.” Then, that’s when we found out what was happening. Interviewer: “So were you living on base?” We were. We were living on base and they closed it down so anybody that was off-base could not get on, and anybody that was on base could not get off. Very quickly–– I think the next day or two–– I don’t know if they canceled school for a day or not, but I remember when the kids went back to school they were being escorted by soldiers–– like with weapons systems. They were doing extra patrols in the streets of the neighborhoods we lived in. They doubled or tripled the guards on the perimeters of the base. So, it was an intense time. (48:41). Interviewer: “Now, does the operation of your unit change at all after that or do you keep doing what you’ve been doing?” Well, we kept doing what we were doing. But, shortly after that–– when we started to go to Iraq a platoon of mine got pieced together with some other transportation units, and then we went to Iraq. �Interviewer: “So, did you go to Iraq with them or did you send them and stay?” I went with them. Before I got sent, one of my jobs was [that] I was the nuclear biological chemical advisor. Everybody hated that guy. Nobody wanted to do the training with the gas and this and that and the other thing. But instantly, overnight, I became the most popular guy there. “Hey man, can you take a look at my mask? I just want to make sure it’s working properly.” “Am I doing this right?” But, I got reassigned to transportation to be like a driver, and that’s when I went over to Iraq. Interviewer: “Now, what kind of preparation do they put you through before they send you to Iraq?” Well for us, our whole training at the National Training Center was prepared for something like that. That’s why you’re in desert conditions and you’re preparing. You’re fighting a simulation war, so, in retrospect, our units would have been the best units to send because we’ve been training for this ten months out of the year for every year. (50:22). Interviewer: “Now, do you go straight from Fort Irwin out to the Middle East? Or do you join other units somewhere else?” We did. We joined three other platoons in Colorado for about a month/month-and-a-half and then we arrived in Kuwait on April Fool’s Day, 2003. Then, shortly after that we were running back and forth in Iraq and Kuwait and other places. Interviewer: “So, by the time you got there, the invasion had already started, right? You were already––” Right. And our equipment–– we were supposed to be there earlier. We were supposed to go through Turkey and somehow that deal didn’t go through and then they rerouted our stuff to Kuwait. So, we had to fly to Kuwait and catch up to our equipment there. Interviewer: “And then do you leave Kuwait right away or do you stay and train there for a while?” We were there–– maybe–– not more than a week. And we were going, taking tanks and moving equipment. When we got there it was–– I considered it to be a little disorganized because they would send us out with some tanks to go somewhere and then when we’d get there somebody in a position of authority would say, “Hey. Can you help us out with this?” And then we’d do that and then we’d get to another place and the person with some authority would say, “Can you do �this?” So, it was kind of that whole deployment–– it was pretty much like that, where you’d get somewhere and you were just–– I mean, it could have been Marines, it could have been anybody–– and you would help [with] whatever they needed and then when nobody asked you for anymore, you went back to your original base or wherever we came from originally. Sometimes that would be a week, sometimes that would be like a month. (52:26). Interviewer: “Did you have a permanent base?” We did, and probably two-to-three months in we had a–– yes, we had a base that was Camp Speicher in Iraq. And what we did [was], the stuff that we didn’t take–– [or] absolutely need–– we kept there. But, we really didn’t spend much time there because we were mostly on the road. Interviewer: “And so were you up in the area around Baghdad or were you farther south?” We went all the way from the port in Kuwait all the way up to Tikrit, and we even went up to Mosul. And we went all the way up to–– pretty much, I’m sure–– the border with Syria. Interviewer: “So, you’re back and forth. Now, during the time frame that you’re doing this– – it’s gotta be mostly in 2003? How dangerous was that job?” It was pretty dangerous. Our unit was pretty fortunate as far as suffering casualties. But, it was really stressful because we were going through–– a lot of the time we’re going through cities and you don’t know–– you don’t know where the next guy is going to take a shot at you from. You’re going down a little street and there’s buildings on either side–– you’re like, “Okay. A bad guy could be in any one of those windows.” So, it was a little stressful that way. (54:07). Interviewer: “So, you’re worried at that point about snipers. Were there IEDs yet or does that come later?” We didn’t really encounter very much of the IEDs, but what we encountered were small groups– – just kind of out of nowhere–– trying to take shots at you. But, yeah, the IEDs were not big for us when I was there. Interviewer: “So, if somebody does shoot at you, do you have a response or protocols to follow?” Yeah. For us, the detained crews manned their weapon systems–– not the big gun–– but they had machine guns and stuff like that. We, halfway through our deployment, had infantry reinforcements that would ride with us. But, our primary job was just to navigate through and not to return fire. Which is kind of like, counterintuitive sometimes. You’re starting to get shot at �and the first thing you want to do is fire back, but for us our job was not to do that. It was to get the equipment to its needed position. Interviewer: “What does Iraq look like to you?” Well, you know, first coming to Iraq through Kuwait is [it] looked like Fort Irwin–– desert, a bunch of nothingness. Then, you start getting towards some of the cities and the first thing I notice is the signs on the highway are in Arabic and they’re in English. And that striked me because I thought they hated English/Western civilization. But, all of their signs are in English and Arabic. (56:20). Interviewer: “Because those were things that were left over from the Saddam regime–– not just new things we put up since we got there.” Right. Absolutely. Interviewer: “Now, were you pretty much at a distance from the Iraqi people just because of the nature of your job?” No. I mean, you’re going through towns and unfortunately, sometimes, they would try to interfere with operations. When I first got there, people would see kids in tattered clothes and be like, “Oh my god, slow down.” [And] would slow down their convoys and once you slow down, the adults would jump out from somewhere and jump on the back of your truck and try to steal anything that wasn’t ratcheted down properly. That was hard for a lot of us to get over because it was a tactic they were using to just try to steal stuff. There were some people that would cheer when we would come and there were some people that would gesture whatever they were gesturing–– I’m guessing they didn’t like us for whatever reason. But, yes. We did have some interactions–– some of those good and some that weren't. Interviewer: “Now, did you have vehicles that would break down on these convoys?” We did. Interviewer: “And what do you do when that happens?” So, on a convoy we would–– if you had eight pieces of equipment, you’d have maybe two or three extra that were empty to, what we call, “self-recover.” Say my truck broke down, they would haul it up on the trailer–– the empty trailer–– and then that truck that didn’t have a trailer on it would come take our trailer. So, we had a lot of that. Now, the only problem with that is the first safe place they would find, they would stick to it and just say, “We’ll report your location, �try to get it fixed, and we’ll pick you up on the way back.” So, one time that happened on our way down to Kuwait, when we were going to pick up some stuff and my truck broke down. They put us up on the trailer, took our trailer, and we got to Kuwait and they said, “We’ll be back.” [It] turned out to be about three weeks. (58:51). Interviewer: “But at least they left you in Kuwait, not on some small operating base in the middle of Iraq.” Right. But we did get left in a small operating base in Iraq though too, which was–– it’s like you felt by yourself but there were other US forces there–– different from our unit, but they still took care of you, they still fed you, and helped to get your vehicle going again. Interviewer: “And how long do you think you were in Iraq?” I was there for about six-months. Interviewer: “Now, did the situation seem to change at all while you were there or were you just doing the same thing at the end as you were at the beginning?” I was doing the same thing. When I first got there, my contract was coming up to be done in early 2004 and they instituted the Stop-Loss meaning your contract got up in March, but we’re extending that indefinitely because we need you. About five-months into my time in Iraq they said, “You can leave now.” So, I was there for about another month and then I came back home. (1:00:10). Interviewer: “And then when you got back home, did you change your position?” When I got back home I basically was getting ready to be discharged. So, there’s a lot of medical stuff that we had to go through from being overseas. So, that took–– actually–– a few months and then I had two months of vacation that I had saved up. So, I went and got my job back in Holland, Michigan–– although it wasn’t Prince Corporation anymore it was Johnson Controls–– and I ended up coming home. Interviewer: “Okay, we’ve taken your story to the point where you’ve come back from Iraq in 2004 and you’re going off to active duty. Now, when you get back from Iraq–– does the Army do anything to help you kind of reprocess or reorient out adjusting to civilian life?” At that point, I came back individually, so in my experience there wasn’t anything set up. I was just–– it was just time for my contract to end. So, when I first came back from Kuwait I landed in Fort Hood, Texas and didn’t have my records. I was like “Yes. Just because I’m from Fort Irwin �in California.” They’re like, “Well, we’re going to send you to [Fort Carson]. We’re gonna go to Fort Carson, we’re going to send you to Fort Carson because that’s where you deployed from.” I’m like, “Okay.” I wasn’t from there. So, when I got to the airport with my ticket to Fort Carson–– the airline that I was on was gonna charge me for my excess baggage. It’s like all my combat/deployment stuff. Well, I had been gone so long my ATM card expired and I wasn’t able to get anything. So, I missed the flight and long story short I ended up–– couldn’t get ahold of my wife initially–– [and] I got ahold of my mom and I got a flight on Southwest Airlines and I didn’t go to Fort Carson–– I flew to Las Vegas and had my wife pick me up. So, I went straight back to Fort Irwin. So, talk about reintegration again–– no. They were not ready for anything for me. I mean, they wanted me to go to a place I wasn’t even stationed at. So, I came back to Fort Irwin and I was there for a few months and then I checked out. (1:02:59). Interviewer: “So, now you’re going back to Michigan again?” Yes. Interviewer: “Is that basically because that’s where a good job was?” Yes. With the–– I forgot the particular law, but I had not quit my job. I [had] said I am going on active duty. So, they, by law, have to give you your job back within a certain number of years. What was nice about that was I got all of the raises that I would’ve gotten if I was there–– you know, seniority and all of that. So, that was nice. So, we moved back, I took a break for about six-months–– from the military–– then I was like, “You know what? I’m almost halfway through.” Let me at least go into the Reserve or the Guard or something to get the 20-year retirement. So, I did that. I went in the Michigan Army National Guard as a paralegal, working in the JAG Department, and about six-months/eight-months or so after that, I got asked to apply for a full-time position. I said, “This sounds like a good idea.” So, I did it. And then I spent about the next eleven-years as an AGR–– Active Guard Reserve–– which was pretty interesting. (1:04:27). Interviewer: “And where did you work out of?” For about the first four years I was in Wyoming on 44th Street with the 126th Armored Battalion. I did various assignments there working in operations and administration. And then I went and worked at the joint force headquarters in Lansing. [I] did that for about four years or so. That was a unique assignment as well. Then, after–– I’m gonna back up a little bit–– about my third year with the 126th Armored, we got deployed to Iraq again. Interviewer: “Did you go with them?” I did, yeah. �Interviewer: “Yeah. We should be talking about that.” And that was–– I went to a staff position. I worked with safety. I was like the safety noncommissioned officer, so I worked with an officer and his job was to–– because the IEDs now were big–– and his job was all the convoys going out, he was checking the electronics, making sure. Basically, they had devices that if you were going over an IED and they were trying to remote detonate it with like phones, it jammed all of that stuff so that it wouldn’t explode when you got past it. So, his job was to make sure the electronics were working. And part of my job was to make sure that the soldiers would actually wear their protective gear. So, how could I do that if I didn’t go with them? It was really hard. So, sometimes I did what I called “ride-alongs.” Just as, “Okay. Here’s the guy that’s going to tell on you if you’re not wearing your stuff. He’s here with us, so everybody wear your stuff.” (1:06:34). Interviewer: “So, where did you spend most of your time on that tour?” I spent most of my time in Kuwait. We were a few miles from the border and our guys were going back and forth all of the time. Interviewer: “So you basically have kind of a permanent base camp there?” Yes. Interviewer: “And do you have buildings or connexes or tents?” Yeah, we had all of that. Initially when we got there I was in a tent with a wood floor. Then, we got the connexes [where] if you were a certain rank you could use that. I also worked with some logistics guys and in our logistics building we actually had a refrigerator and a microwave–– which was pretty nice to have in the middle of the desert. Interviewer: “Then, how often would you actually go with the convoys?” Not that often because I had a meeting I had to do every week at Camp Arifjan which was the big, permanent base in Kuwait. But, I would go. Either when the boss said or I wanted to get out. Interviewer: “And then how far afield would you go?” You know, I couldn’t tell because when I went I had to sit in the back. Interviewer: “So you didn’t know where you were.” �I didn’t know where we were, where we were really going. I mean, I would kind of listen in on the headset, but we weren’t going that far. I mean, we’re going a couple of hours and a lot of the time we were escorting supplies. So, we had to escort them from Kuwait, you know, [a] safe area–– somewhat–– then we would escort them into Iraq and then somebody else would take them to where their final destination was. (1:08:37). Interviewer: “Now, were IEDs a problem on the stretches of road that you covered?” Yeah–– sometimes. I don’t recall–– maybe a couple of times our guys were involved in that. But, once again, we were pretty fortunate in that area. Interviewer: “Okay. And it was probably less activity in that sector than there were in some of the others. You didn’t have a lot of population around.” Right. Yeah. But, sometimes, you know, they had to go to the airport in Iraq–– Baghdad Airport. Those were some of the longer ones. Interviewer: “While you’re out there in Iraq, or Kuwait for that matter, how much contact did you have with home?” So, the last deployment–– 2008–– it was remarkably different than the other ones because I actually bought a cell phone and I could call home when I wanted to. It was expensive, but they also had–– at Kuwait–– they had a phone center. They also had email. That was something we used. Interviewer: “How much did you use that yourself? Was it better not to talk to home too much?” Yeah. I mean, I probably called home once a week [and] maybe email once or twice a week. But, yeah, you didn’t want to get like–– you kind of wanted to keep it separate because if you start talking to home too much, the kid misses you, you miss the kid and that sort of thing. So, it’s kind of tough to walk that line, I guess. (1:10:42). Interviewer: “Because you still got to keep your head in your own business over there.” Absolutely. Interviewer: “Now, in total, how many times did you go to Iraq then?” �I went to Iraq twice. Interviewer: “So one tour regular and one with the Guard Unit?” Yes. Interviewer: “Now the second tour, I mean, now you're getting into a period [where] you had more IEDs, you had more insurgency–– the surge thing had started or whatever. So, there’s a lot of news back home about people blowing up and getting killed and that sort of thing–– casualties being taken. Did your family worry about that or did you have to reassure them that that’s exaggerated?” Yeah. You know, I kind of downplayed my level of activity or the unit's level of activity. You kind of really didn’t talk about what you were doing but I kind of said this is what my job is, this is what I’m doing most of the time, and I wouldn’t necessarily say, “Hey, I just got back from Iraq” or “I’m leaving tomorrow.” Interviewer: “Yeah. ‘Hey, don’t worry. I’m in Kuwait.’ Now, how well did you understand at that point–– in that second tour–– how much understanding did you have of what was actually going on in Iraq, or what the bigger picture was?” To me, it was actually irrelevant because at my level I wasn’t concerned with that. I was just concerned with what my job was and just doing that properly. And I’m sure I watched the news or whatever when I could, but yeah. Whatever was going on, it just really didn’t matter because it wasn’t–– as far as I looked at it, it wasn’t gonna affect what I was going to do day-to-day until I was done. (1:12:40). Interviewer: “And are there other particular things that happened in that second deployment? Or impressions you’ve got that sort of stand out for you?” I remember there was a big push for people to get people to vote and a lot of that didn’t work out, just because we didn’t prepare for it properly and people [were] trying to get absentee ballots–– it was a mess. Interviewer: “So they’re not really coordinated for that.” Right. Now, we have–– since then–– the unit I was in instituted an additional job for somebody as a voting officer. And it’s their job–– if the unit gets identified to be deployed–– to figure all of that out we leave. �Interviewer: “So they made, at least, that much of an adjustment. So, you come back in 2008 or was it 2009?” Yes. Interviewer: “Now this time when you come back, are you going back with the whole unit?” The whole unit. Interviewer: “Now, do they get any kind of reorientation when they come back?” It was minimal at that point. I left a few days before the rest of the guys did, but, I mean, we all went to Kuwait for like a week or something and then went back to our mobilization center–– Fort Hood–– again. But, I don’t think we were there for more than a week. (1:14:24). Interviewer: “But, do they give you any lectures or information––” They did. They did present information–– I don’t know how much we really listened, you know. For us–– you know–– for me, it was my fourth time coming back and forth. I did go home during the middle of the deployment once for a couple of weeks. Interviewer: “How does that work?” It’s strange to do that. Yeah–– it was just strange. Interviewer: “Do you put in a request to do that or [do] they put your name in a hat somewhere and then say it’s your turn?” Well, it kind of goes on how long you’re projected to be deployed. So, they’ll say it’s supposed to be eight months, so then starting within the third month there, the third through the fifth month they try to say, “Anybody that wants to go home, we’re going to send all the people that want to go home, home.” But, they had to do it at like five percent of people at a time. So that was strange. I was out of the first one that would go and you kind of think you want to break it up, like you want to go halfway through or something like that. But, yeah. I didn’t really have control of that. Interviewer: “And so once they tell you [that] you get to go, what’s the process to get you home?” �At that point they would fly you, basically, anywhere you wanted to go. So, you fly out of Kuwait and it's, “Where do you want to go?” Of course, I went home because I had family but some people went to other places. They didn’t have family and they went to Ireland or wherever. (1:16:25). Interviewer: “So an R&R kind of thing. Now, are you flying in uniform?” We did. Interviewer: “And how were people treating you? If they see you in uniform, what do they do?” Well, during the initial flight, everybody was in uniform. But, like when I got–– I flew into Atlanta. You know, I don’t really remember people at that point interacting with me–– probably just because I want to go home. But, other times I would fly for training and stuff, you know, [and] people would talk to you, offer to buy you a drink, you know, that sort of thing. But, definitely [a] much different experience than my father-in-law had [as a] Vietnam vet. I did not ever have someone, you know, come up and be negative towards me–– at least to me. Interviewer: “So, it’s not an uncomfortable thing to do–– to have to travel around in uniform?” It’s not uncomfortable, some people just don’t like talking to people and if you’re wearing a uniform–– at a time like that, you know, war time–– people are gonna want to talk to you. And sometimes that bothers people. They’re like, “I just want to go get a coffee, leave me alone.” Interviewer: “And how many kids did you have at that point?” So, at that point I had three. My youngest one was–– he had turned one during that 2008 deployment. And I talked to him on the phone and that’s how he knew my voice–– was on the phone. And when they came to pick me up from the airport, I got in a van and I sat next to him and when I started talking to him and was just freaking out, looking at me. So, I took the cell phone, gave him the cell phone, went in the back, and I just started talking to him. And I just remember doing that. (1:18:36). Interviewer: “The other ones were old enough to remember you?” Yeah. The other ones were old enough to remember me. �Interviewer: “So, now you’re back and then how long do you stay in your job with the Guard after that?” So, when I got back I stayed all the way up till retirement. So, I retired December 31st, 2016. Interviewer: “And that’s how many total years in?” It was 23 in total. Interviewer: “Since then what have you been doing?” Well, I’ve actually been recovering–– physically–– and had a few surgeries right after I retired, so that’s been taking up a lot of time. Interviewer: “Did any of those relate to the military service?” Yeah, all of them. Interviewer: “Okay. So, what happened to you?” So, my last couple of years, you know, with being in my middle 40s–– it’s kind of a bit older to be out with the troops doing training and everything. So, I tore my achilles tendon and I broke my ankle. I tore my rotator cuff and bicep muscle. So, subsequent surgeries to follow up on those. Interviewer: “But you changed your assignment though, with the Guard, because you were with the Armored Battalion first and then you kind of moved on to more conventional staff positions.” Right. But after that, I decided that I wanted to go back out with the troops and that’s what I did. I came back to the transportation unit. And that–– in hindsight–– was a mistake on my part. (1:20:23). Interviewer: “Found out you were too old, after all. So, basically, you had to get put back together after all of that stuff. And then [do] you have a job now?” I do not. I had a job, initially, at the post office. But, after a few months of doing that is when I realized that my shoulder was messed up, so I was on medical leave for like a year/year-and-ahalf and they’re like “Hey. You know, it’s been a year-and-a-half. We’re not firing you, but we need to hire somebody.” So, I decided last January–– I started going to college. �Interviewer: “And where are you going to school?” GRCC. Interviewer: “Back where you didn’t quite start.” Yeah, that’s right. Interviewer: “So, to look back on it now, after all this time you spent in the service, what do you think you’ve really taken out of that or how did that affect you?” Yeah. You know, I thought about that when I was getting ready to be finished–– before I retired. You know, it was a unique experience and I know that we need people to do that. You look back like, “Did you influence anybody” and “yes” and “no” and “I’m sure you did.” But, that’s what people always ask. They say, “Would you do it again?” And I am like, I would probably do the first 18 years. And then if I probably wouldn’t have gone back into the field, maybe just stayed at headquarters after that because that last couple of years really took a toll as it turned out. But, yeah. I don’t know if I really answered your question on that one. (1:22:25). Interviewer: “Yeah. Well, that’s a very open-ended question, people say all sorts of stuff. The thing is, this was your career. So, it’s not like you had this two-years out of your life that marks you in this way and then you go on, you know? That’s been your adult life.” Yeah. It was interesting when I was coming upon retirement just thinking about [how] now my time is my own, you know? Every weekend, if I want to do something, I get it. One thing I found interesting is having to pick clothes to wear. I didn’t have to do that. I had the same kind of thing to wear all of the time. And I remember the months up to my retirement, going and buying different things of clothes–– regular clothes. Interviewer: “All right. Well, you’ve done a good job for us. So, thank you very much for coming in and sharing your story today.” Oh, thank you. (1:23:23). � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HaywoodB2299V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haywood, Breyound Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-04 Title A name given to the resource Haywood, Breyound (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Breyound Haywood was born on February 28, 1973 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Haywood graduated high school in 1991 and enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1992. In January of 1993, he was flown to Marine Boot Camp for three months in San Diego, California. He then moved onto rifle training and field exercises at Camp Pendleton, California. After attending Marine Combat Training and then Infantry School back at Camp Pendleton, Haywood was assigned to a Zodiac Assault Company in the 1st Battalion, 4th Regiment, 1st Marine Division. On his first deployment, Haywood was redirected into a detached Special Operation Capable Platoon and was shipped around the Pacific and Middle East on the USS Tripoli and USS Tarawa for six months. His Company was also deployed to Somalia and stopped at various Middle Eastern ports as well as British Hong-Kong. He ended up staying in the Corps for longer than his tour, so he was assigned to the mail department in early 1995. On his second deployment, Haywood was sent to the Philippines as well as other stops in Africa, the Middle East, Persian Gulf, and Asia. After that, Haywood decided to leave the Corps, was discharged in March of 1997 in California, and joined the California Army National Guard. In 1998, he married and later enlisted in the Army Infantry out of Fort Irwin, California. On active duty, he was assigned to the 11th Armored Cavalry Unit, Supply and Transportation Platoon based out of Fort Irwin before being transferred to the Orderly Room, administrating the platoon. He was then deployed to Iraq and Kuwait, stationed at Camp Spiker with his Transportation Platoon and ran supply routes throughout Iraq. After five months on active duty, Haywood was allowed to return to the United States in 2004 and was discharged from the Army at Fort Irwin. He then returned to Michigan where he resumed his work for Johnson Controls and joined the Michigan Army National Guard. He later applied for a full-time position within the Active Guard Reserve, working out of Wyoming, Michigan, in the 126th Armored Battalion. With this Battalion, Haywood was again deployed to Iraq and Kuwait in a staff position. In 2008, he and his unit returned to the United States where he stayed with the Michigan National Guard until his retirement in December of 2016, totaling twenty-three years with the Guard. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/36721584a90c89e680f84cab3c0e18ca.jpg 613b3359c1f5725688a4de0d0396b62e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0102 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Walsh, Jerri Title A name given to the resource Hazy view of a young woman seated on porch steps Description An account of the resource Photograph of a young woman sitting in front of a white house in downtown Saugatuck, Michigan. The house appears to be located next door to 'Round the Corner Ice Cream Shoppe. She is sitting with a clutch in hand and her legs crossed, but her expression is impossible to discern due to the quality of the image. The photograph is extremely hazy, almost fog-like, but this could be a result of age or low light. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f99bf4dff08a4a031d29a88d2dcf9b15.mp3 0fe15595dbd3832adba9cf875c8e3707 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Advent I Scripture Text Isaiah 9:2, Revelation 1:4 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19891203 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1989-12-03 Title A name given to the resource He is Coming: Fulfillment and Promise Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 3, 1989 entitled "He is Coming: Fulfillment and Promise", on the occasion of Advent I, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Isaiah 9:2, Revelation 1:4. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/522c00faa76359d3e335b5d60cf55745.mp3 a70fd9576c9181f907103cc7e0de0d92 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a15109431c6107731e66e49e8e538e64.pdf 5da2c0dd39decccba5353c320e7d5285 PDF Text Text He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! From the sermon series: The Human Face of God Text: John 14:19 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan Easter Sunday, April 19, 1987 Transcription of the spoken sermon Because I live, you too shall live. John 14:19 "This is the day the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it!" This is the Lord's Day, the Lord's Day of which every first day of the week is a joyful celebration. This is Easter; Christ is risen from the dead. The word from the Gospel for our celebration today is Because I live, you too shall live. It is a simple text; just seven words. You can carry it home with you; you can take it with you through Eastertide; you can take it with you throughout all the seasons of your life; it will give you confidence in your youth, courage in life's middle years, peace at the end; you can take this text to your death, repeating it as you move through the valley of the shadow, into the momentary darkness and into the brightness of the light that will greet you, light streaming from his countenance who spoke this simple, straightforward word. Jesus said: Because I live, you too shall live. Today we focus sharply on the very center of our Christian faith and hope. On Easter we celebrate and rejoice in the final Truth, the last word of our faith: He lives, we live, Alleluia! Today we celebrate the center from which our every Christian celebration stems, the reason why there is any cause at all in this world, in our human condition, to celebrate. Let me set forth but two thoughts around which to center our Easter celebration: the foundation of our celebration, and the reality that we celebrate. © Grand Valley State University   �He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Richard A. Rhem Page 2   The Foundation The foundation of our Easter celebration is the truth clearly and simply set forth in our text, the claim of Jesus, "I live." That is the great Easter reality. Jesus lives. It is the proclamation of the Gospel story. It was the overwhelming revelation to Mary in the Garden when, in gentle grace, he called her by name. It is the declaration of St. Paul in perhaps the earliest Easter document, the first Corinthian letter, where he declares, ... the truth is, Christ was raised to life. In simplest, most concise terms, Jesus says, I live. Perhaps you were surprised to find the Easter text taken from the Last Discourse with its setting at the Last Supper. That discourse begins with the 13th chapter of John, the moving scene of last supper during which Jesus girded himself with a towel and washed his disciples' feet. Death was at the door; Judas was dismissed. John tells us movingly, "It was night." It was in such a setting that the words of our text were uttered. They appear in a paragraph where Jesus is preparing the disciples for his absence. He assures them that they will not be left desolate, bereft; rather, he will come back to them. Then we hear him say, Because I live, you too will live. How are we to understand these words placed by John in this solemn setting on the eve of crucifixion? Was Jesus aware of Easter before ever he endured Good Friday? Traditionally, the Church has attributed such foreknowledge to him but, I think, wrongly. One thing we can be quite certain of: Jesus knew the end had come; his "hour" had arrived. And further, we can be quite certain that he was confident that God would effect His purposes through life or death. And further, should it be death, still Jesus placed his trust in the Father. But if you ask why I choose a text from the Last Discourse as an Easter text, let me remind you that the whole Gospel and each of the four gospels are PostEaster texts in their entirety. If, as we assume, John's Gospel is the latest of the Gospels to appear, then the Christian community had been living in the light of Easter for several decades. By this time the whole of Jesus' life and all the words remembered that he spoke were understood in the light of Easter. A study of the Last Discourse will show that it is really made up of several pieces of tradition. If, for example, you compare John 13:31 - 14:31 with John 16:4b-33, you will find that they are parallel passages, no doubt remembrances of the same © Grand Valley State University �He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Richard A. Rhem Page 3   discourse of Jesus stemming from different circles and different times in the developing tradition. There are commentators who go so far as to call these discourses Post-Easter conversations of the risen Christ with his disciples. That is probably not the case, but there is no doubt that these chapters contain various time perspectives and some of the statements appear to be made in the light of the Easter experience and the presence of the Spirit. They reflect the reality of the Post-Easter Christian community. The only point I wish to make out of all of this is that what in the chronology of the Gospel of John appears to be a pre-Easter statement is really a Gospel proclamation in the wake of the Easter experience. Raymond Brown, in his great commentary on John, writes, Although he speaks at the Last Supper, he is really speaking from heaven; although those who hear him are his disciples, his words are directed to Christians of all times. The last discourse is Jesus' last testament: it is meant to be read after he has left earth. Yet it is not like other last testaments, which are the recorded words of men who are dead and can speak no more; ... the Last Discourse has been transformed in the light of the resurrection and through the coming of the Paraclete into a living discourse delivered, not by a dead man, but by the one who has life ... (p. 582) C.H. Dodd writes: It is true that the dramatic setting is that of the night in which he was betrayed, with the crucifixion in prospect. Yet in a real sense, it is the risen and glorified Christ who spoke. Brown explains this rather strange mixture of present and future as follows: The Last Discourse explains the significance and implications of the greatest of Jesus' deeds, namely, his return to the Father; but it precedes what it explains. The reason ... is easy to see: it would be awkward to interrupt the action of the passion, death, and resurrection, and it would be anticlimactic to place so long a discourse after the resurrection. (p. 581) Having explained how such a statement as our text appears in a pre-Easter setting, I want now to examine the foundation of our celebration - Jesus' declaration, I Live. Who makes this claim? It is Jesus, the man of Nazareth whose passion we have traced in these past weeks of Lenten observance. It is Jesus our brother, flesh of © Grand Valley State University �He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Richard A. Rhem Page 4   our flesh and bone of our bone. It is Jesus, the human covenant partner of the faithful covenant-keeping God. It is Jesus whom Paul calls the last Adam in contrast to the first Adam. In sum: resurrection happened to a fully human person; it was God's mighty act, but the action was worked on Jesus, a human person who had been "made like these his brothers of his in every way," to quote the writer to the Hebrews from whom we took our text on Passion Sunday. Our Lenten pilgrimage began around the Table and the text affirmed the mystery of our salvation: "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself." God was in Christ. God was in this thing from the beginning, from eternity, in the conception and birth, in the life and in the death, but the one in whom God was fully present and active was the man Jesus. Our whole understanding of Jesus, of God's action in him, of the salvation accomplished through him comes from the New Testament, all of which was written a good while after that first Easter - a perspective from which the Early Church was fully convinced that God was in this thing. In order to witness to that Truth and to proclaim that Truth, Jesus was given every conceivable title of honor and dignity. There was no doubt that God was fully present to, active in, working through Jesus and when the creeds were formulated in the subsequent centuries, the way the Church gave expression to its understanding was to point to Jesus and say, True God, true man. And in the history of the Church, the "True God" soon overshadowed the true man. But we have followed a different tack these Lenten weeks. We have attempted to see him "from below" in the genuine human existence he lived out. We have attempted to see him as our brother - in fear and trembling before the "hour," determined fully to follow the will of the Father in costly obedience, setting us an example that we should follow in his steps. This Jesus: made in every way like us, the Jesus whom Mary did not know how to love, the Jesus who wrestled in anguish only finally to say, "Thy will be done," the Jesus who with disarming vulnerability faced down the alignment of worldly power determined to maintain its position by fear, coercion and intimidation. If we have done justice to the portrait of the man as the New Testament still portrays him, even through the overlay of deity ascribed to him, then Easter is really something to shout about because then a man has risen from the dead, then a human person has conquered death through the mighty power of God. Now, that's a miracle! © Grand Valley State University �He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Richard A. Rhem Page 5   This is no God-man with an ace up his sleeve who couldn't die anyway because he was God. Don't tell me about a God-man whom death could not conquer. That would be no miracle. Then Jesus was only a masquerade. Then he seemed human, but was not really our brother. Then one can say God was here and death could not touch him, but one cannot say a fully human person was here and he conquered death by the power of God, Whose will he fully followed and to Whose care he trustingly committed himself. The glory of Easter is that God raised up one like ourselves, that in a fully human existence, death has been conquered. Jesus said, "I live." That is more than I exist; that is, "I am alive with the vitality of God, the source of life, and consequently, because I live, you, too, shall live!" The Reality We Celebrate The reality we celebrate today is that we, too, shall live. That is, that we are enlivened with the vitality of the resurrected Christ and that we now are alive with the life of God and we shall move through the moment of death into a fuller, richer dimension of life forevermore. The biblical term, the great theme of John's Gospel, is Eternal Life – life in a new dimension. Union with Jesus through faith was for John the union with God that was the source of life in a new dimension – eternal life – a present possession and an even more wonderful reality yet awaiting us beyond the terminus of death. You, too, shall live. That is the transforming consequence of the great Easter event. He lives, we live, Alleluia! Again, let me stress, we are not speaking of the mere perpetuation of life, the mere extension of some kind of biological existence. It is not simply to have more of living "at this poor dying rate." Although there is a strong, natural drive to live, to keep alive, it is also true that life can become a burden. Last evening my aunt told me of an uncle who said to her yesterday, "How I wish the Lord would take me home." That is not a rare desire. He, who was full of life and loved to travel and loved to have half a dozen children crawling over him at one time, has been wounded by a stroke. Emotions are out of sync, the mind goes out of focus, the motor skills are damaged, and he who always cared for others is now the object of care, handicapped, crippled, a bird with broken wing whose song is silenced. You, too, shall live! © Grand Valley State University �He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Richard A. Rhem Page 6   But not in the limitation, brokenness and tragedy of this present experience. We shall LIVE; that is, we are now and we shall be more so, alive with the very life of God, this vitality by which he powerfully raised Jesus from the dead. In the first letter of John, the wonder of what we are now and the anticipation of what we shall be is beautifully experienced. Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the children of God; and such we are now and we know not what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is. Now! The present possession of life is the gift of the risen Lord and there is still more to come. In an Easter letter from prison, Bonhoeffer contrasts Socrates and Jesus. Socrates mastered the art of dying. Jesus conquered death. The first is within human capacity; the latter implies resurrection. The Easter message is a message of radical renewal. What we celebrate today is not just the return of a dead person to life, but the death of death, the conquest of death, the last evening and therefore the triumph of grace in the whole cosmos, the very victory of God over every obstacle, all darkness, every tragedy and all suffering. The resplendent strains of triumph reverberate down the post Easter decades of the Early Church. Paul writes nothing, nothing, nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. He breaks out in triumphant acclamation, Thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! Socrates mastered the art of dying. One of philosophical bent can come to terms with almost any situation or condition. One can, with discipline and concentration and contemplation, come to a measure of peace in any storm - at least some seem to; that was true of Socrates - he mastered the art of dying. But Jesus conquered death. Socrates calmly drank the hemlock. Jesus anguished before the moment of evil's assault. Jesus wept. Jesus cried for release. Jesus felt utter desolation. Socrates died; nothing changed. Jesus died and then God changed everything. Jesus conquered death through the mighty power of God and therefore it is he who addresses us on each recurring Lord's Day, each First Day of the Week, with the assuring words, © Grand Valley State University �He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Richard A. Rhem Page 7   Because I live you, too, shall live. We shall live, my friends - live beyond a mean and selfish extension of this present scene; live beyond the dis-ease, the restless anxiety, the broken down and disappointed hope; live beyond the gaping wounds of denial and betrayal; live beyond the weakness of our mortal bodies vulnerable to sickness and crippling disability. We shall live in love in communion with Jesus, in union with God in the eternal praise of His glory. © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Easter Sunday Series The Human Face of God Scripture Text John 14: 19 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19870419 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-04-19 Title A name given to the resource He Lives, We Live, Alleluia! Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on April 19, 1987 entitled "He Lives, We Live, Alleluia!", as part of the series "The Human Face of God", on the occasion of Easter Sunday, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: John 14: 19. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Easter Followers of Jesus Joy Resurrection Transforming Love https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1306ce9c53219e8c08612e4f19d88861.pdf 0c92c5df40d33df3e4bc3f0728e345ea PDF Text Text He reinemhers his 58 Marines It was surreal, slow motion: just like the movies. The Rev. Robert Bedingfield had just come into a clearing of the jungle with his outfit of Marines. (His Marines. He had come to think of them that way.) And then: Contact! Three North Vietnamese machine gunners plugging a way - tat-tat-tat, tat-tattat - a company of 44 Americans pinned to the ground with bullets whizzing over their heads. Suddenly, Bedingfield realizes, the lieutenant commander is down with blood pumping from his chest. This is the guy in charge. And just as suddenly, Bedingfield is in charge, barking orders, sending a man around behind to take out the machine gunners threatening his Marines. Bedingfield is telling me this calmly, voice steady, 22 years removed from the scene, sitting in his office· at Central Reformed Church. He is a pastor there now. I am asking about Memorial Day. I'm listening intently, knowing the background, wondering how it all worksout in the erui. 'llljj.is a -man, I know, who does not believe there can be a moral war. He had preached that when he was senior Protestant chaplain at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. Vietnam, he thinks, is as unjust as they get. Nevertheless, he volunteered to go there. And then, back to the picture of him carrying this wounded lieutenant commander on his shoulder, watching a North Vietnamese grenade spin on the ground a few yards in front of him. Grenade exploded across his flak jacket It explodes across Bedingfield's flak jacket, wounding him. He puts the lieutenant on a stretcher rotating upward toward a helicopter, the bullets pinging off the bottom of the metal beast. Soon the machine gunners are gone. So is the man Bedingfield sent to take them out. He is dead. The lieutenant survived. Fifty-seven others from his outfit also die during the chaplain's two-year stint in Southeast Asia. "Most of those 58 died with me present," he says. "I was rabbi, priest, minister. After a while the smell of the warm blood gets in your nostrils in a way that's almost haunting." Haunting: He means it literally. He went back to Vietnam this January, along with a group of some 20 Calvin College students and Charles Strikwerda, also a Vietnam vet, of the college's political science department. They traveled through a better part of the country, watching and learning and finding out that for the Vietnamese, the war is over. At one point, Bedingfield met a man named Nuygen Huoung. A professor now, speaking perfect English, Huoung had served in the North Vietnamese army. The two men found out they had been wounded at the same place, one day apart, on opposite sides of the enemy dividing line. "That was the beginning of the exorcising of the demons," Bedingfield said. In the Oliver Stone movie, "Platoon," the enemy, the North Vietnamese, never have faces, Bedingfield said. It is only after they are dead that you can make t their human.featur.esr The enemy was speaking in English Now, finally, _here was a face: the enemy, speaking in "beautifully clipped" Oxford English. They began to talk. Bedingfield got a sense for the absolute poverty of the North Vietnamese. They were fighting the war with a different sense of urgency than America had. For them, it was survival. "We could bring in all the technology in the world and we still couldn't win," Bedingfield said. The cost was tremendous. More than 2,300 Americans unaccounted for; more than 200,000 Vietnamese. Losses? More than 58,000 Americans; some 1.7 million North Vietnamese. And still, for Bedingfield and many other Americans, the nagging question: Why were we there? Back to Memorial Day: "Memorial Day calls me as a Christian to the , primary loyalty of asking who is Lord," Bedingfield said. "If Jesus is Lord, I have to be courageous enough to stand tall on those things in life that are worth dying for." . Yes, I asked, but how did you make sense of all this? How did all of this square with being the minister of a message of love and peace? It didn't, really, Bedingfield said. But if this war was going to happen - and it clearly was - somebody had to be there with that message. That is why every Memorial Day, it's mostly the 58 Marines - his Marines - that Bedingfield remembers. "I have a sense that God stands with these 58 I knew with outstretched, loving arms and says clearly, 'It was pretty awful, wasn't it?' " Bedingfield said. "And then he welcomes them home." � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_NWS_1990-05-26-Marines Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Golder, Ed Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990-05-26 Title A name given to the resource He remembers his 58 Marines Description An account of the resource Newspaper clipping about Rev. Robert Bedingfield, a Protestant chaplain at the Naval Academy in Annapolis during the Vietnam War. Subject The topic of the resource Military chaplains -- United States -- History -- 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/277cffa421d14178f793bc1efc747ba3.jpg fe266cc193252c99d6a64b62b84cd409 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_001058 Title A name given to the resource Head baseball coach at GVSC Description An account of the resource Head baseball coach at GVSC in the 1970s, Phil Regan-manager, Baltimore Orioles. Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Sports Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/630e01976e0a5079f9d3f7a883bad344.jpg bbe078ab238ac1064226996fe493611d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Platte, Richard Description An account of the resource Collection of photographs and a scrapbook pertaining to the 126th Infantry, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division of the U.S. Army. Sgt. Richard "Dick" Platte, of Grand Rapids, Michigan, served in the U.S. Army, 32nd Infantry "Red Arrow" Division, 126th 3rd Battalion, Headquarters Company. The company trained for the war in Europe at Camp Livingston, Louisiana in 1941 and conducted maneuvers near Camp Beauregard. In the spring of 1942 the 32nd Division sailed to the South Pacific and settled in Australia. The 126th Regiment was organized into a combat team and was the first of U.S. forces dispatched to Port Moresby in New Guinea. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941-1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection (RHC-99) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army United States. Army. Infantry Division, 32nd United States. Army. Infantry Regiment, 126th World War, 1939-1945 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-99 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-99_Platte_002_1941_126th Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Army Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942 Title A name given to the resource Headquarters Company, 126th Infantry Description An account of the resource 75 members of Headquarters Company, 126th Infantry photographed in Australia. First Row, left to right: PFC. Jesse Martin, PFC. Harold Weinrich, PVT. James St. Peter, PFC. John Johnson, PFC. Claude Martin, SGT. William Harshima, PFC. Merlin Young, CPL. Henry Koster, CPL. Gerald L. Harvey, PFC. Gaylord Hall, PVT. Ira S. McKay, PFC. Lou B.H. Fox, SGT. James Tompert, SGT. Walter Hill, SGT. Herbert Gardner, PFC. Robert Kruthaupt, and CPL. Allan Walton. Second Row, left to right: PFC. Louis J. Pellerin, PFC. James Robinson, PFC. Joseph Ravetta, PFC. Walter Bajdek, PVT. George Fomin, PFC. Harvey Hill, CPL. Leonard Bolle, SGT. Steven Kraut, CPL. Theodore Olinger, PFC. Ora E. Ramsey, PFC. Jerome Schulty, CPL. Richard Ross, PFC. Robert Durbin, PVT. Harold Pageler, SGT. John Quakkelaar, CPL. Minor Edwards, PFC. Maurice Carpenter, and PVT. Ferd Radenslaben. Third Row, left to right: CPL. Francis Plotzka, CPL. Elden Anderson, Staff SGT. Stanley Ketchel, SGT. Albert Rabaskas, SGT. Robert Eckberg, PFC. Earl De Vormer, PFC. John J. Glowicki, PVT. Jack Carmichael, PFC. Kenneth Miller, SGT. Stuart Kreger, PVT. John Peterson, PFC. Emil F. Peters, SGT. Richard Platte, Staff SGT. Richard Newton, PFC. Lester Spader, PFC. Martin Bolt, Staff SGT. Roy H. Jurgens, and SGT. Joseph Skiba. Fourth Row, left to right: Capt. J.J. Sullivan, 1st SGT. Alfred Bush, Staff SGT. Bernard Doyle, SGT. Ferdinan Ficeli, SGT. John Aeschliman, PVT. Rudolph Socha, PVT. Jerome Kozak, PVT. Walter Plaska, PVT. Harold Kelly, PFC. Joseph Tuscan, PFC. John Mulvey, PFC. Edgar McGaskill, SGT. Anthony Carowitz, PVT. Edward Zolenski, CPL. Roman Leibeck, CPL. Roger Anderson, CPL. Gerald Palmer, CPL. Roger A. Goldsmith, Tech. SGT. Joseph Kroll, SGT. Herman Steenstra, Master SGT. Abel Potts, and Capt. Woltjer. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army World War, 1939-1945 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/635">Richard Platte Red Arrow Division Collection, (RHC-99)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d379a0c980cc1b6b04fa5fd5538a00a.jpg 176d784d376e4b671bf04bc3828c77ff Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Platte, Richard Description An account of the resource Collection of photographs and a scrapbook pertaining to the 126th Infantry, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division of the U.S. Army. Sgt. Richard "Dick" Platte, of Grand Rapids, Michigan, served in the U.S. Army, 32nd Infantry "Red Arrow" Division, 126th 3rd Battalion, Headquarters Company. The company trained for the war in Europe at Camp Livingston, Louisiana in 1941 and conducted maneuvers near Camp Beauregard. In the spring of 1942 the 32nd Division sailed to the South Pacific and settled in Australia. The 126th Regiment was organized into a combat team and was the first of U.S. forces dispatched to Port Moresby in New Guinea. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941-1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection (RHC-99) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army United States. Army. Infantry Division, 32nd United States. Army. Infantry Regiment, 126th World War, 1939-1945 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-99 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-99_Platte_009_1941_126th-HQ Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941 Title A name given to the resource Headquarters Company, 126th Infantry cabins Description An account of the resource Headquarters Company, 126th Infantry cabins and sign at Camp Livinston, Louisiana Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army World War, 1939-1945 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/635">Richard Platte Red Arrow Division Collection, (RHC-99)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II