378 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/75fe00fe83fed7feebeb24a3c9de6564.mp4 f98acaabce1d153877e620a62c5a4342 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c3e033bfcbed3f88e13f48969030c2f6.pdf c44161ab8a8e2279b189251341e6fcc0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Harold Hanselman (01:05:35) (00:19) Introduction: • Born in 1924 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. • Graduated high school in 1942. • Attended Western Michigan University. • Father was a real-estate manager for property that he inherited from his father. • Grandfather’s candy company invented the first ice-cream bar. (04:32) Learning of Pearl Harbor: • Was listening to the radio when it was announced. • Remembered thinking that the United States could not be that vulnerable. • He knew about the conflict between Hitler and Chamberlain, but not much more. • Because the conflict in Europe seemed so far away, he did not pay much attention to the issue. (06:07) Enlistment: • The reserve corps offered to keep him in college if he enlisted with the reserve. • They called him up after only one term of college. (07:02) Training: • Went to Camp Grant, Illinois for a few days. • He first received a large overcoat and boots. • None of his original uniform was tailored to his size. • Many of his colleagues were washouts from pilot training. • He was sent to the air corps. • After basic training he was sent to radio and gunnery school. • He was sent to basic training to Florida via train. • His basic training was in the swamps near Fort Myers, Florida. • The men were housed in tents. • The army brought king snakes in to eat rattlesnakes and coral snakes. • Remembers having king snakes sneak into cots at night. • Because of the poor health conditions, the men were sent to Clearwater, Florida. • Basic training lasted three or four months. (12:00) Radio School: • Scott Field, Illinois. • The barracks were very nice. • He was schooled in Morse code, which he enjoyed. (12:39) Gunnery School: • Went to Georgia. • He learned how to use .30 caliber and .50 caliber machine guns. • To graduate, he had to dismantle a .50 caliber machine gun and put it back together while blindfolded. • Accidentally insulted an officer while in training, and was not punished. �• Finished school in fall 1943. (16:20) Finding a Pilot and Training in Alaska: • Went to a large gymnasium in Columbia, South Carolina. • Because pilots could take their planes home for a long weekend, he saw a pilot who was from Detroit, Michigan so he could also take a long weekend before leaving. • The men went to Seattle, Washington and then Anchorage, Alaska for cold weather flying and training. • The cold weather training was difficult. His heavy gloves made it difficult to complete Morse code, so he had to do it without gloves. • At one point it reached 60 degrees below zero. • On a night training mission, the men flew to Nome, Alaska and encountered a large group of Soviet soldiers who were guarding Soviet military equipment. • During the evenings, the men would walk into town. • Watched a prospector come into a bar one night and pay for his alcohol with gold. (22:38) Aleutian Islands and Missions: - After three weeks in Alaska, he was sent to the Aleutian Islands. • They traveled by transport plane. • He lived in a hut with 18 men total. Three six-man crews to each hut. • Realized how dangerous his position was when he saw the amount of gold stars hanging in the hut to represent the fallen airmen. • He was stationed on Attu Island. • Missions would last nine or more hours. • He flew a B-25. • The only encounter with the Navy consisted of World War I ships. • He would sometimes fly fleet coverage to help the Navy ships, however they would have to turn around very quickly. • There were P-38 planes also stationed on Attu Island. • The main targets were canneries with anti aircraft fortifications. • He would bomb the Kurile Islands, the northern most islands of Japan, very close to Russia. • The men would occasionally be hit with Soviet anti aircraft fire while on their missions to Japan, while they were still allies with the Americans in Europe. • The Soviet fire shot down at least one crew. • The men were scared of flying through the narrow straits between two particular islands, where the canneries were, due to the danger level intensified by the Soviets. • Earlier in the campaigns, 8 planes would go on each mission; later on they would only send 4. • He was always a member of the lead plane because his pilot was a senior pilot. • He had to maintain radio silence while on missions until they reached their position, but had to listen to all of the other codes coming in to see if they were to abandon their mission; this only occurred once. • He would listen to codes relating to weather or the breakdown of Japanese codes. �Once the mission was completed on the way back to the base, he would compile all information about the other planes on the mission and send a report back to the ground crew. • The missions usually consisted of eliminating anti aircraft guns and RADAR stations. • The plane would drop to 200-300 feet to try to surprise the enemy. • One return trip proved to be very dangerous. After a bombing raid, only one bomb was dropped, after trying to shake the other ones loose, and failing, the men had to shut the bomb bay door, to reduce drag on the aircraft. The bombs eventually came loose and jammed the bomb bay door. The bombs were all armed and did not explode during the whole flight home. • Freighters and fishing ships were also potential bombing targets. • The men were allowed their own judgment whether to fly or not due to weather. • Any interaction with Japanese zeroes would only bring four to five planes in. It was usually a flight instructor teaching the other Japanese fighter pilots to fly. • He came to recognize the flight instructor, who was a much better pilot that the others. The instructor would wave at the Americans as he flew past, and for a long time eluded their gunfire. • He finally came up with a plan to catch the instructor on his approach, and shot the instructor down. • Severe storms would well up because of the interaction due to the meeting of the Northern Pacific warm waters, with the Bering Sea. • Visual contact was the only way to know where the other planes were located. • He believes that the Japanese always knew the men were coming, and never really surprised them. (40:25) Life on Attu Island: • He describes life on Attu Island as very boring. • While rummaging through a storage closet, a friend and he found a few fishing rods and caught some very large trout in a lake. The army asked for more fishing tools to be sent to the Island for the men to fish. • He also found an old piano in storage and was allowed to clean it up. The men would have parties with the singing and piano playing. • The men would have beer provided by the military, and smuggled whiskey with the military looking the other day. • Playing cards was a large aspect of life. The games would continue to run for days and days, taking breaks when missions and sleep were needed. • The men especially enjoyed playing the game “Old Maid.” • There were many types of men stationed at Attu. A RADAR calibration team, the Navy, B-24 pilots and B-25 pilots. • There were no Japanese threats while he was on the Island. • The rubble from the battle of Attu was still visible. • The American Government throughout the war kept Native Americans who originally lived on Attu Island in the mainland of Alaska. • The Aleutian Islands are also amazing for bird watching. • There is nothing but a weather station on Attu Island currently. • �• • • • • • • • • • • The snow would become very deep due to storms, including huts becoming completely buried. The huts were outfitted with telephones for the men to request help once the huts were buried. The men would trade their bottles of whisky to the members of the Navy for frozen steaks because the Navy was not allowed to get alcohol. The men could hear the radio broadcasts from Tokyo Rose, who constantly attempted to break the morale. The largest morale breaker was the consistent boredom, especially for the ground crew. His crew maintained stimulation because of their numerous missions. He believes he flew around 25 missions, but he is not positive. He received mail, although it took weeks to reach him. Before leaving for the Aleutians, a wealthy man met Harold, on the train from South Carolina to Seattle, who called his family and told them to meet Harold in Chicago during an 11-hour layover. After the atomic bombs were dropped, the men were ordered to fly their planes to Seattle immediately. He was sent home for a 60-day furlough before going to San Antonio, Texas for discharge. While in San Antonio, he saw a man who he thought had been killed in battle, who had lived. (59:00) After the Service: • He enrolled in Western Michigan University. • He became a salesman after finishing school. • He did not retire until he was 69 years old because he liked the work. • Does not believe that wars do not solve large issues. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hanselman, Harold G. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanselman, Harold G. Description An account of the resource Harold Hanselman served in the United States Army Air Corps during World War II. He was stationed on Attu Island in the Aleutian chain in the northern Pacific ocean. He was a radio operator in a B-25 bomber that would fly bombing missions in the Kurile Islands north of Japan. He discusses both the living conditions on Attu and the experience of flying missions in that area, where the Soviets and the weather added to the problems caused by the Japanese. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HanselmanH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a2b0a120534b8fd7da2c4ff120857c2.mp4 aac6eb40046431c0ad6f836431124957 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05e9d6207abb2abdc346d24d05bb062c.pdf 94fa6c9048e7d3ffb3bd5013d5f25deb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Lloyd Hansen 1:21:02 Introduction (00:21)                    Lloyd was born on July 4, 1925 in Jamestown, North Dakota. He was the family’s sixth child and before he was three months old they moved to California. They eventually settled in Michigan. His father was working for the Jamestown Sun as a newspaper writer when Lloyd was born. Later, he became the General Missionary for the American Sunday School Union. They went out into rural areas and started Sunday school programs in the local school houses. The family moved to Michigan when Lloyd was in fourth grade, but he does not have much memory before that time. (02:40) Lloyd moved into the Lincoln Consolidated School District south of Ypsilanti. At the time, everybody came to school by bus, no one walked. Lloyd and his family were considered poor and received clothes and food boxes from local churches to help support them. By this time, they had nine children in the family. (04:55) Once the war started, Lloyd’s mother and his wife’s father both worked at the bomber plant in Ypsilanti. At the time, anybody who lived in the country was considered a farm family and they could get a driver's license at age fourteen. This was the age Lloyd was when his father took him down to the court house and signed for him to get his license. (07:14) Because he had so much driving experience, once he was drafted, he volunteered to become a truck driver. Lloyd went to school and church with his future wife. They grew up together, but she was two years younger than he was. He doesn’t remember hearing about Pearl Harbor on the radio. By the time he graduated, most of the boys in his class had already enlisted. Lloyd’s older brother joined the Air Force, so when Lloyd was a senior he went to Selfridge Field and took the entry exams so he could join himself once he graduated high school. He failed because of his depth perception. (09:29) At age eighteen, every man had to register for the draft. Lloyd did this in July and he was drafted in November 1943. Before he left for basic training, he went to work in Ypsilanti in a foundry. Lloyd was planning on becoming a pastor, and his church sent the appropriate forms to the draft board to get him a waiver, but the board did not recognize them. (11:07) �In the Army (11:19)  He was drafted in Ann Arbor, then sent to Battle Creek and went to Fort Custer where he was issued his uniforms.  He was then transported by train to California for basic training. The train headed north into the mountains and went to Camp Roberts, which was an infantry training base. Two train cars were cut loose there and Lloyd was on one of them. He was sent to the artillery training there, not the infantry that he had expected. (13:01)  After he arrived, they were taken off the train car, conducted a roll call and separated the men for the artillery from the infantryman and then taken to their barracks.  They asked if anyone wanted to be a truck driver, and Lloyd raised his hand and volunteered. Because of that, his basic training was easier than most because he did not have to march or conduct combat training.  An emphasis was placed on discipline and following orders. Lloyd did well with that aspect and as a result only had to pull KP Duty once. (15:45)  The men with him in basic training were from all over the United States. He didn’t know anybody when he got there.  After basic training, he was sent to a base outside of Boston. (17:55)  He was only there for about a month. Truck drivers were sent to the docks to run fork lifts that were being used to load bombs onto ships.  Lloyd spent about six months at Camp Roberts in California.  His uncle was a colonel at Camp Roberts, and was in charge of the court martial board. (20:34) Overseas (21:37)         Lloyd was shipped overseas and took a luxury liner, which arrived in London in nine days. He left the states in the spring of 1944. The weather was fine during the crossing, and the ocean looked almost solid to him like you could step right onto it. On the trip, the ship began to zigzag and he was told they had to take evasive maneuvers to avoid German U-boats. (23:05) At that point, he was not assigned to a unit, he was just a replacement. When D-Day happened, he had been sent away to radio school, but he couldn’t pass the Morse code test. He was then sent back to the motor pool as a truck driver. Later he was sent out to the Salisbury Plains for six weeks of infantry and rifleman training. The ground was flat with limestone underneath, which made it impossible to dig a foxhole. So instead they just made a mark on the ground that was supposed to symbolize their foxhole. (25:42) When they came back from that training, they were sent as replacements to France. They were put onto ships and they crossed the English Channel. The water was very rough on the trip, and to avoid seasickness Lloyd went to the lowest part of the ship. (27:00) While in England, they had little contact with the local people. Once he remembers having to ride an English train and he sat in a compartment with an English family. � He got their address, and when he was at one of the training camps he got a day pass to visit the family and brought the kids a bag of oranges. That was the only contact he had with civilians. France (29:25)  Lloyd was shipped across the English Channel on a small transport ship. They landed in a harbor and got into trucks and headed inland. This was around July or August.  He wrote home and said that the lieutenant that he had was drunk and couldn’t march. His captain threatened to court martial him for the letter, and Lloyd reminded him that he was breaking the law by keeping the letter and not sending it out. (32:05)  This captain later asked one of the sergeants to beat up Lloyd for the incident and the sergeant said that he couldn’t beat him up because he was so little.  Going from one replacement camp to another took several months and they eventually made it to a line company. During this time they read or found something else to do.  No real training occurred, just rifle maintenance and physical training to stay in shape.  The French countryside was beautiful and he saw lots of hedgerows. (34:32)  He was finally assigned to a line unit that was in northern France. Their headquarters was located in a cave.  Lloyd was put behind a machine gun because the CO thought he was a heavy weapons expert.  His infantry rifle training was only with the M-1 rifle. He didn’t have any training on machine guns. (36:58)  The first night he was there, he was sent to cut a hole in the hedgerow and place a .50 caliber machine gun in the position to cover the infantry movement the next day. They dug a deep foxhole behind the gun. Once they started firing, they heard a mortar shell coming in and they took cover and they discovered that the machine gun and hedgerow were completely destroyed. (38:46)  From there, they began moving up the line as part of the H Company (heavy weapons).  Lloyd did not want to be a machine gunner, so he just carried the ammunition. Five men made up the machine gun crew.  The nice thing about being on a machine gun crew was that they did not have to go out on night missions. Instead, they stayed back and set up gun positions and remained there all night long. (41:18)  Lloyd was with the 79th Division, 315th Regiment, Heavy Weapons Company operating in the Vosges Mountains near Germany.  While campaigning, Lloyd does not remember any bad weather.  His unit was continuously moving forward and he wasn’t with the division long before they were sent on R&R. (43:56)  They went to an old chicory plant to rest and conduct some training.  One day, the Chaplin asked Lloyd to help him with some baptisms. The pair went down to the river which was feed from the mountains and it was very cold. They baptized five men that day in the river. (45:03)  Once they returned to the front, they were kept in reserve. After a while, they were ordered to move up to the front and replace the Rainbow Division in Hotton. Lloyd was �told that they were a fresh division from the United States. They were pushed out by the Germans. It was there that Lloyd was wounded. Wounded (46:48)  Years later, Lloyd returned to that town and took pictures of the town and the barn that he was in when he was hit.  He was standing guard in a barn and a mortar shell blew the barn wall into his face, he was then sent back to the hospital. The town is located in France. (47:50)  They were in the town for a week or so before he was wounded.  Lloyd never saw the Germans except for dead bodies.  He doesn’t remember any air or artillery support with his unit. (49:51)  They had a French outfit to their right, and at night they were loud and ran their jeep. Later, the French took a hill that had a German 88 Artillery piece. Lloyd found out that the gun was pointed right at the road they came up.  When he was wounded, the shell that hit him was the first and only one that came in. (51:33)  After being hit, the medics came and took him down into the basement, but doesn’t remember anything after that. They cleaned him up and was given a sedative; he was taken on a half track back to the hospital. He was sent to three hospitals one of which was in Paris. (54:26)  He remembers being taken to a doctor and having him check out his eyes and put new gauze and bandages on his face.  From there, he was flown to the First General Hospital in England and performed operations on his eyes to allow him to see again. (56:13)  One procedure that they did was to put gauze under his eyelids, and someone would reach down and check his pulse every so often. He learned that this spread the top part of the eye which pulled apart the scar tissue making it possible to see through.  Lloyd was allergic to the medicine they used to dilate his eyes.  In England the Red Cross was supposed to come and help him write letters, but they never did. He learned that if he put a pin hole in a card and looked through it, it helped him to see through his scar tissue and be able to write letters home. (58:41)  On Easter Sunday, 1945, Lloyd was able to see well enough to go down to church. He was in bed most of the time, but he was taken on walks often.  He was given a shot that caused him to have a fever. Lloyd was later told that by having a fever helped his eyes heal. (1:01:24) Shipped Home (1:01:49)  Shortly after Easter, he was considered a walking patient and he was put back on a luxury liner that had been converted into a hospital ship and taken home. On the way home, the ship sailed straight without zigzagging.  From England the ship went to Canada and from there they were loaded onto a train and taken to Camp Miles Standish. From there, he was put on a bus and taken to Valley Forge General Hospital. (1:03:36) � When Lloyd got a weekend pass which was good from Friday night to Monday morning, he went out of bounds for his pass and got on a bus to Ann Arbor, Michigan. (1:05:12)  He surprised his parents and had breakfast. He then went to see his girlfriend, Beth. They had been dating for a while, and the second weekend that he went home they decided to get married. (1:08:07)  He applied for a furlough from the Red Cross and was approved.  When he was being examined by the doctor, he suggested that he have a cornea replacement, which fell on the same day that he was supposed to be married. He decided to get married instead. Later examinations said that his eyes had healed so well that he didn’t need the operation. (1:10:40)  Lloyd was discharged in July 1945. He was married on May 7.  His wife Beth hadn’t graduated high school yet, so she stayed and graduated.  After being discharged, they moved back to Michigan. That fall, he went to Eastern Michigan University for one year, three years at North Central University in Illinois and three years at the Evangelical Theological Seminary. (1:13:50)  Because he was wounded and had a medical discharge, that put him under Public Law 16 and not just G.I. Bill. That paid for four years of college and one year of seminary.  While he went to school, Beth worked as a waitress at the truck stop.  Serving with the Methodist church, he was moved every four years. (1:16:20)  Looking back at his time in the military, the service didn’t bother him like it did others. He had faith that God’s plan was good enough for him and he just went along with it.  If he hadn’t been drafted, served and wounded, he does not think he would be a pastor because they wouldn’t have been able to afford the school.  While in Hotton, the Germans had the area surrounded. An American halftrack used to come in from the woods and brought out the wounded. He heard later that during a snow storm the rest of the Americans in the town had been brought out after he had been wounded and evacuated. (1:19:36) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hansen, Lloyd (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hansen, Lloyd Description An account of the resource Lloyd was born on July 4, 1925 in Jamestown, North Dakota. His family moved to California before they settled in Michigan. His father was a missionary with the American Sunday School Union. When Lloyd was a senior in high school he took the entrance exams to join the Air Force but was turned down because of his depth perception. He was later drafted into the Army in November 1943. He was sent to Europe as a replacement after D-Day and served in a heavy weapons company in the 79th Division until wounded in northeastern France late in 1944. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-08-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HansenL1490V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/535458d7a5da77d353501625c659c964.jpg ff6bedfb7a6ec61332af26fdb663678a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HansenRichard Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Hansen, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Hansen, Finance Administration Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6103cb62c135a5d0e4f0c861e49bf362.mp4 9d715ddafd1a22ccdc2fe219527cb601 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bba45f2818e69add2d6189707f242ed3.pdf 284d55b31a3e741422f1ff303cff4079 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Laura Hansmann Interview Length: (35.32) Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Interviewer: We're at the 2018 Ripcord Association Reunion we’re talking now with Laura Hansmann of Coon Rapids, Minnesota and Laura is the wife of Paul Hansmann who we've interviewed previously and served in the Ripcord Campaign and she is gonna give her side of the story. And so, Laura begin with a little bit of background on yourself and to begin with where and when were you born? I was born January 23rd, 1947 in Eldora, Iowa. I grew up on an Iowa farm. Interviewer: Okay. Worked hard, my dad was a good farmer, hard worker, I had two sisters and a brother. Interviewer: Okay and then did your father have any other occupation beyond farming or was he able to support himself entirely off of the farm? He supported us with farming, however he really was involved in a lot of organizations in the county and so he ran for state representative in 1970 I think, and he lost but then he ran for state senator and he was an Iowa State Senator for 22 years. (1.09) Interviewer: Okay, alright and then what part of Iowa are you in? Central Iowa, north central Steamboat Rock, little town, out on the farm, in fact we still have the family farm. It's probably 80 miles north of Des Moines. Interviewer: Alright and then did you finish high school? Yes. Interviewer: Okay when did you graduate from high school? �1965. Interviewer: Okay and what did you do after you got out of high school? Well my grandmother was quite a lady and she told, said that she would pay tuition for the first year of college if we went to a Christian college. Well my father decided to enter me into a speech contest where I had to write a speech and present it, and I won the National, so I got my scholarship from that for one year and then my grandma of course picked up the next year. So, I went to Cedarville College, it’s now a university in Cedarville, Ohio. Interviewer: Okay. And graduated from there in 1969. Interviewer: Alright now where did you meet your husband? In college we were both in college choir and they arranged us by height. He was the tallest guy and my roommate, and I were the tallest girls, so we stood on each side of him. So that's where I met him. (2.22) Interviewer: Alright and of course he's in college and of course the Vietnam War at that point is going on. At, and so is it, is he, are you thinking about, I mean if you're- you’re getting serious and so forth and you're going to get married and there's a prospect there and being drafted. You know it's interesting we were sheltered at the college about what went on in the world and we didn't even think of Vietnam. It just wasn't, in fact Paul and I just discussed this recently, he left school and I stayed there, we got married in 1968. Interviewer: Okay. �So of course, if you're not, weren't in school then you were eligible for the draft and it caught him. (3.11) Interviewer: Okay now I'm sure we have it in his interview but just for the audience here did he leave school just because he was tired of it or he wanted to do something else? Yeah, he just, he you know he wanted to do something else and wanted to get married, so he needed to support us. So, we got married and then in ‘68 of June and then we, I didn't go back to school the first quarter my senior year. Interviewer: Okay. And then he got a draft notice, so in February of 1969 he left to go to and so I was in school then to finish my college degree. Interviewer: Alright how did your family feel about all of this stuff? You know I don't remember I; we were not living near them. Interviewer: Right. …at the time because we were in Ohio and his family was in Illinois and mine in Iowa but just and it was just what was going on. Interviewer: Yeah let's see and where did you actually have the wedding? (4.15) In Iowa, in our, in my home church in Eldora. Interviewer: Okay, alright so he was an acceptable choice? Oh yeah, I think so. Interviewer: Well he was going to the right school. Too bad, he was, yes. �Interviewer: Okay yeah and what kind of work was he doing? Well he was at that time, his father was a superintendent of a bakery, commercial bakery so he helped in the bakery and when we were in Ohio then he got a job in the bakery just driving the bread truck. Getting up super early in the morning and- and working while I was at school. Interviewer: Alright and then so you were still basically in Cedarville at that point or? Yeah, yeah. Interviewer: Okay alright and then were you watching, would you watch TV news and things like that? You know not a whole lot. Like I said we were pretty sheltered we were busy. I was in school, he was working, and yeah, we knew about Vietnam, but it just wasn't something that we thought a lot about. We were pretty naive. (5.13) Interviewer: Okay and so now what, was there any kind of anti-war movement at Cedarville or was that foreign? No, no that wasn't- wasn’t allowed and it, and we wouldn't have done that anyway though. Interviewer: Yeah, okay so now beginning of ’69, he heads off to training and then at that point while he's still in the States and in training how much did you see or hear from him? Well when he was in basic and then the AIT I didn't see him. Interviewer: Okay. But then he was went to NCO school. So, in Fort Benning I went to Fort Benning and then he went on to Fort Polk and I was with him there. In fact, a buddy of his who got drafted at the same time, his wife and I both went to Benning and cause they went through, all the training together in the States. So, we went there and lived off base, and we got to see them on the weekends. �Interviewer: Okay so you're going down at Fort Benning Georgia and this is now what middle of 1969? Yes. (6.19) Interviewer: At that point, okay describe a little bit what life there was like? Well I got a job as a babysitter, we lived in a mobile home, a small mobile home, and Shar and I lived together and the guys course were on base, we could go on base on Wednesday nights and see ‘em and then they actually got the weekends off every weekend so we could… So, it was- it was nice to be there, but it was lonely because we didn't know anybody of course. Interviewer: Alright now, was, did you notice kind of a- a different situation as far as race relations or things like that from where you would be? I mean did you notice, the south wasn't officially segregated at that point, but did anything seem different or did that not register with you? That didn't register, you know I grew up in rural Iowa so there, you know I wasn't accustomed to other races or, it's not that I had any problem with them I just hadn't grown up around other races. Interviewer: Yeah so but then I guess the question then, did you see how black and white people in the civilian world related to each other? Yes, yes. (7.31) Interviewer: And did that seem different from what you were used to? Yeah it was different, it was different, but I didn't, it just it didn't affect me, I guess. Interviewer: Okay so now you go from there and to Fort Polk, Louisiana, and what was… �That was a culture shock because Fort Polk is nothing like Fort Benning, I always said Fort Polk was kind of the arm pit of the United States. It was, we lived in a 10 by 50 trailer the four of us, yeah, the four of us did. And cockroaches and it just was nasty, and we'd get up early in the morning and fix breakfast for the guys before they went on base which about four o'clock in the morning and we’d opened the cupboard door and the roaches would run. And it so it was not nice and when we moved from Benning to Polk, we had to pawn some things cause we didn't have any money so that was rough too. Guys could eat on base but Shar and I had to scrounge. (8.33) Interviewer: Okay and were you able to get jobs in Louisiana? We didn't in Louisiana. Interviewer: Okay and then how long were you there? Well it was his OJT, so it was probably eight weeks maybe, eight/ eight and a half. Interviewer: So, he basically did one cycle of… Yes, yes. Interviewer: The training as a very- very new sergeant yeah. And it was during that time that I got pregnant and we'd discussed it, Paul was not in favor of it and at that point I thought well you may be going somewhere and not coming back, so I wanted to do that. Interviewer: Alright so now from that stint does he get any leave time, or does he get straight, sent straight to Vietnam? We did get leave over Christmas. Interviewer: Okay. So, we went back to Iowa and Illinois where his parents lived and kind of split the time there. �Interviewer Okay. So, he had that time. Interviewer: Alright so you're, now you're and then basically do you go and stay with your parents or? Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Yeah, I lived with my parents while he was in Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay now what was it like to send him off to Vietnam? (9.44) It was horrible. I just remember we took him; my, I was in Iowa at the time we took him to the airport and when he took off, I just collapsed because it- it was real. Interviewer: Okay and then once he left, how long did it take before you heard anything from him? I don't, I have all of his letters I kept them all. He couldn't keep mine because of the humidity and the rot in Vietnam, but I, it was several weeks because you know in country and they had to go through some training or whatever to adapt themselves to Vietnam. So, it was a while before I heard from him because he went in January, so it was probably sometime in February that I heard from him first. Interviewer: Okay now once he left did you pay more attention to the news or whatever you could learn about what was happening over there? Yes then- then you know it, all we had because you know we didn't have the communications like the soldiers do now, so all we had was the six o'clock news and I glued myself to the TV every night to see what was going on and of course they showed battles. That's what they had �and that you know the numbers of men that were killed and so every time I'd watch it, I'd look to see well maybe I'll see Paul. Of course, I didn’t, and I never would have cause there were no cameras where he was. But it was it was hard, very hard. (11.22) Interviewer: Alright now your back home in Iowa I mean did the people in the community know what your situation was or? Yeah it was small community and of course they knew he was gone and that I was there and, but people didn't understand, and I think this was probably countrywide, you know there were the protests going on and we saw that on TV as well. But- but nobody said much, I was pregnant, and I can remember one experience my dad and I sang together at a church function and after we, and I was very pregnant and one of the men after wards said something to my dad. And he says, “how can a man go to a war and leave a pregnant wife at home and to live with her parents. I just don't understand that. How can that be?” So, he didn't- he didn't understand what was going on and there was, that was just kind of I think the whole attitude. Interviewer: Okay now how old do you think that man was? He was probably around my dad's age. (12.34) Interviewer: Okay so he didn't remember the World War II stuff when everybody did that? He must not have been in World War II I don't know. Interviewer: Yeah but it was certainly a fairly common thing at that point in time. But okay so he's just, now he's just looking at this situation kind of seeing it that way. Yeah. �Interviewer: Alright now again the small-town Iowa you weren't gonna be confronting any direct antiwar anything. No. Interviewer: Okay. No there was none of that. Interviewer: And did people ask after him or did they just… Yes, yeah- yeah and especially I'm involved in church and so yes, they were, they wanted to know how he was and how were things going and all I could tell them was from what the letters said. Interviewer: Okay, and what kinds of things did he put in the letters? Not a lot, he said very little in fact I just was going over them recently and mostly it was, “wouldn't it be nice if I could come home when the baby's born, maybe something could happen, and well you know I could come home, see if that, you know see if I can come home.” And but he wouldn't, he just say, “it's hot here and, or it's rainy,” but he never really did say what he was doing, which was probably a good thing. (13.48) Interviewer: Yeah sort of one- one of the issues with letters and things like that, the government by and large didn't censor communications sent from Vietnam, but the men by and large censored themselves. Exactly. Interviewer: Okay, now some people used cassette tapes or things like that, did he ever do any of that and? �No, and you know some of the guys that are here at the reunion they took cameras and they had pictures. He was in the jungle and he had a rucksack that weighed I forget how many pounds and he says, “I just didn't want any more weight in my rucksack.” So, he didn't have a camera or a cassette recorder, he couldn't, he didn't carry anything except what he needed. Interviewer: Right, okay and did you have any sense of where he was generally? Was he allowed to tell you that or did you figure that out? (14.37) Yeah, he- he did say he was in the A Shau Valley, and that's pretty much you know so then I'd get a map and see where is that? You know it was pretty up, far up north near the DMZ and. Interviewer: And did he ever mention the Ripcord Firebase or any of the other places? He mentioned a couple places, I in fact I was looking to see if he had mentioned Ripcord because that was, until he came back that was unfamiliar to me. Camp Evans cause I know they were there. Interviewer: Yeah. For a little bit and then after he was wounded, he went to Cam Ranh Bay to recoup so those names were in the letters. Interviewer: Right, yeah and so that's, you just have, okay so when did you have the baby? (15.27) Had the baby, well that's another story because I was due July 3rd. Paul was wounded May 5th. Interviewer: Okay. A couple days after that I went to town with my mom to mail him a seven-pound box of cookies. So, he could share with his buddies and went to the post office and then we went to the flower shop for some reason, I don't remember it was a Western Union place too. I didn't know it at the �time but they had gotten the telegram at the Western Union about Paul's being wounded but she didn't say anything and so we went home. My dad was in the kitchen, he's farming, okay this is in May when he’s out in the fields which was unusual and he met me in the kitchen and told me that the County Sheriff had gone out to him in the field to tell him, small town. Interviewer: Yeah. Tell him what had happened and then Dad came and told me that Paul had been wounded. Then we got the telegram from the flower shop in town. (16.34) Interviewer: Okay. So- so anyway, that's the back story. Interviewer: So, that- that- that’s there, so that happens in May and then. Lance was born June 12th he was due July 3rd. My doctor was a Vietnam vet, he said it was probably… sums the trauma of learning all that which caused Lance to come early. Interviewer: Okay but there's still a gap of several weeks between when you got the news. Yes, yeah. Interviewer: Was that, did that, did you then have problems with the pregnancy or did this- this just something that just happened sooner than it should have? It just happened sooner, yeah. I did get a letter from Paul you know saying, “I'm in the hospital, I'm okay.” So, you know that was good. Interviewer: So how much of a lag time was there between the telegram and the letter? Oh, it would have been at least a week and a half I would say at least. (17.28) �Interviewer: Alright now did the telegram say enough to give you an idea of what the situation was or? It just said that he had taken, he was under fire and I know that after the fact he told me that it was at night and they couldn't get them off where they were. The hill where they were so he directed fire and continued to- to help his men well because he was a sergeant so, to help his men until they could get him in the next day and he- he was wounded so he got accommodation for that. Interviewer: Okay so how did you sort of deal with that in the meantime? What kind of stuff ran through your head? I- I didn't know what to think you know I knew he had been wounded. He told me he was gonna be okay, so I took him for, at his word. Interviewer: Yeah, I guess before that, before you actually hear from him, you know that first week. Oh yeah, I- I was a mess. I didn't know what to think. (18.30) Interviewer: Alright so now, okay so you've got at least some level of reassurance, okay this is gonna be alright. How long was it before he came back? Well because Lance was born three weeks early the first night, he had, my water broke gradually. So, he had a sporadic pneumonia and about didn't make it. So, my doctor of course who was the Vietnam vet said, “we need to bring Paul home.” So, they called the Red Cross and they contacted Paul out in the jungle, brought him in and he didn't know anything. He was told that the baby was born dead and the wife was near death and he didn't know anything different, until he got stateside in, at Fort Washington or Fort Lewis in Washington and called home. �Interviewer: Okay. And I was actually fine, and Lance was fine and went home the day that Paul got back into the states. (19.35) Interviewer: Okay now was this still just a temporary leave for him, or had he? 30 days. Interviewer: Okay so he got a 30-day leave at- at that point. Right. Interviewer: Alright. Which was wonderful for me, you know, and I got to see him, and he was so thin he had lost so much weight. I you know he- he's 6’4” and weighed about a hundred sixty pounds, so. Interviewer: Wow. He was so thin. Interviewer: Okay. But he didn't talk about it much, he didn't talk about what he'd been doing and at that point in June he'd been on Ripcord. Interviewer: Okay did you have a sense of how long he'd been in the hospital? He said he was there for about a week and then recovered for a week and they send him back out. Interviewer: Yeah, okay so now, so basically, he doesn't, now did he seem I mean aside from being thinner, did he seem at all different at that point? �Yeah, he was different because he was just a fun-loving, joke-telling guy and he was just much more serious and much more quiet when he came home. Excited to see his son but just he was different. (20.47) Interviewer: And then what was it like sending him back off again? Yeah that was hard, and it, you know he's told me later it was hard for him because he knew he, what he was going back to. I didn't, I just knew he was leaving again so it was tough. Interviewer: Okay and then once we, once he goes back then does he start writing again to kind of he picks up where he left off? Yes, he would- he would continue to write but not say much. Interviewer: Alright so then how much longer did he have on his tour at that point? Well he asked for an early out to farm with my dad, so he was released the beginning of November. Interviewer: Okay alright so he's kind of out of that and now once he's back for good, did you kind of observe him having to readjust to civilian life or? Well it's interesting because I didn't, I, he- he had been gone, it was time for us to raise a family and so let's just forget about it. Forget about Vietnam, you're done with that, let's just move on and that was my attitude, not realizing at the time you know a week before he'd been in the jungles of Vietnam. No downtime, nothing, he just was out on a tractor on a farm in Iowa harvesting corn. And he told me later that there were times when he wanted to just get off the tractor and we had a motorcycle, he wanted to get on that motorcycle and just run, and just go, and never come back. But he knew he had a family so he couldn't do that, but it was, he was- he was different, and he was jumpy. He would, I would wake up in the night and find him on the �floor sleeping. There would be times when I would I remember one night in particular I was laying there and he'd kinda dozed off and I, we'd had, wasn't an argument, but just a disagreement or something and I wanted to remedy that and I kind of poked him with my elbow. Never did I do that again because he jumped out of bed screaming and ran out of the house and outside and he was just shaking. You know it's just those kinds of things started happening. (23.16) Interviewer: Okay and then did that stuff sort of get worse over time or how did it, things work through that? It- it, kind, that kind of got better, you know that, I mean it took time. But I- I, what happened was I learned what I could and couldn't do. It was interesting because just a few weeks ago I was talking to a really good friend of mine and it dawned on me that my husband has had PTSD for forty-eight years. Interviewer: Yeah. Through the whole time and you know I can go back and- and talk about some of the things that happened in our marriage and I realized that it was just a result of Vietnam. It changed our whole family, you know it affected our children, it affected me, and he- he says that too. You know he's, he realizes it. It's, the PTSD has changed, you know its kind of melded into different things over the years, but… Interviewer: Yeah well, they're different components and you get people have different combinations and there is kind of that- that- that reflex action which is really very direct and standard PTSD. That's the kind of thing that- that sometimes will get treated with drugs but then there's a lot of other things that you're carrying as well. There is sort of a moral injury, and just, and there can be survivor guilt, there can be a lot of other kinds of �things that go on in their head it really doesn't, is different from PTSD and drugs make those things worse. Did if he ever get formally diagnosed with PTSD? (24.55) No, when he came back from Vietnam he says, “I want nothing to do with the military, I want, I don't want anything.” So, he never did until we moved from Iowa to Illinois in 1999. And there, there was a clinic and so he decided he'd go to that clinic, so that's when, actually there was a veteran's office in our town in Illinois. So, he went there got his records all straightened out and then he went to clinics. So, then he started doctoring with the VA in Illinois. And then when we moved to Minnesota, they have a great VA system, so he's used them for sure. Interviewer: Okay that’s sort of, that's- that’s a very long time. Of course, it took a good long time for the government or anyone to really even recognize sort of what PTSD was. Yes, yeah in fact I looked that up because PTSD was not even a term. Interviewer: No. Until 1980. Interviewer: Yeah and it took several years after that before the kind of the VA kind of got on board and decided to deal with it. Right. So, yeah so, it's so, I guess to the extent that you can kind of describe sort of some of the effects of all of this on your family or what you think was different because he had to deal with this? (26.09) I felt like I had to walk on eggshells a lot with him. There was a lot of anger and just recently Paul said that anger was his defense mechanism and he's worked on alleviating anger and now �he's feeling a lot of emotion, instead of the anger. So, because he was that way, I mean it's not that we had a bad family life you know. Interviewer: Yeah. But our son who was born of course when he was in Vietnam, he and Paul would butt heads a lot and I would have to be the mediator and say, “okay this is what he said, now this is what you said, and this is, you're really saying the same thing.” So, I did a lot of that. Lance, I was his English teacher in high school, and I assigned a term paper and Lance wanted to write about Vietnam, well he wanted to interview Paul. So, I had to go to Paul and ask if it would be okay that Paul interviewed him and because Paul never talked about Vietnam. It was just he never talked about it, he would tell a few funny stories once in a while, but he never really discussed it. So, I went to Paul and he thought about it and he said, “okay but it's got to be in one sitting.” You know, just one time. So, I sat in the living room while Lance interviewed Paul and talked about it, well it was in the evening which was not real smart because after that was all over then Paul had nightmares and flashbacks and stuff that night so but- but Lance at least got the gist of some of the things, and Paul shared a few things with him about what he went through but really not too much in depth. It wasn't until several years later while Paul and I were with a couple out in the woods, we had a campfire, and Paul started talking about it, and it was the first, I was just in shock because he had never said anything about any of his experiences and I always felt like that was kind of the watershed moment, you know he just started. And people would ask him about it, but he wouldn't tell them a whole lot unless it was somebody he knew and because he said, “well unless you've been there you just don't understand.” Which and he wouldn't even, he started sharing more things with me too at the time, but there were, I mean there were things that I could and couldn't do, you know he kind of wanted me around a lot and so there were things I �wouldn't get involved in because of that. I did of course get involved in the, I was a teacher, I taught, but it was just, it was hard, and you know I've heard people say that marriage is hard but it's really hard with a Vietnam vet. (29.09) Interviewer: Yeah and of course you- you get this- this sort of change to some extent of the person that you married. Yes. Interviewer: They go away and they come back, in some ways they’re somebody else, which is not a standard experience in a marriage. Right. Interviewer: Where you don't have that kind of thing going on. Right, yeah in one year he, I said he aged ten years in that one year. Now I think that overtime kind of leveled out, but yeah, he was not the fun, loving, jokester, he didn't have that twinkle, he didn't have the laugh, he just, he was very subdued, very serious. Interviewer: So, does some of that guy come back? Yes, and that came back the first time he came to the Ripcord Reunion. He had known, I didn't know about this, but he had known about the reunions and had never said much. I think he got the newsletter et cetera and Craig Van Hout, one of the guys that comes to the reunion. Interviewer: Yeah. Contacted and said, “Paul you really need to go to these reunions.” And so, they had an Illinois gathering just the guys from Illinois and I talked him into going cause it was just probably six guys. (30.16) �Interviewer: Yeah. And wives. So, we went he's, we sat, we were going to a restaurant and he sat there, he says, “I don't know about this, I just, I'm not sure.” I said, “yeah.” Well then Dale Lane came and came up to the car he recognized that this must be the guy and that was it, you know then he talked to him and we, it was really cool and then Dale Cooper and Dale Lane and one other guy… Interviewer: Let’s see, LaGrange maybe or? No, it's Murphy. Interviewer: Okay, let’s see, George? George, yes, took me aside at different times and said, “you need to get him to the Ripcord Reunions,” and I said, “I'll try my best.” Well then, we did come that year in Indianapolis Interviewer: Okay so what year was that? 2011. Interviewer: Okay, hey first year I went. Was it? Yeah same time, yeah. And I just, it was amazing to me because I sat at the tables and listened to these guys talk and I said, “they're talking the same language.” You know here he couldn't talk, tell other people about what he'd been through or what was going on because nobody understood. These guys did and I think that probably helped him more than anything, and he found connections with these guys and in different battles that he'd been in, skirmishes you know that had support, and so he was able to put some pieces together and timelines together. (31.44) Interviewer: Yeah sort of getting control of- of what happened to you on- on some level. Yeah, he said, “I guess I wasn't imagining that, I guess it did happen.” �Interviewer: And- and- and that's something that- that affects a whole lot of trauma survivors of one kind or another and you know we see a lot of that today. Very different kinds of situations, but, and women who are victims of sexual assault or harassment or things like that, and then once they realize that they're really not alone in this and it's not their fault, then that changes. And- and for a lot of these guys it works that way too. Of course, today we have a- a lot of new veterans, people have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan and so forth and a lot of them are married or in relationships or things like that. Of course, now you have women who served over in these places. Sure. Interviewer: As- as well, I mean do you have any kind of advice or encouragement to offer family members and people who've done that kind of thing? (32.42) Just expect it to be different and- and support the veteran and talk to them, make them talk to you that's, I didn't do that for a long, long time. I just let it, I buried it and I think I was afraid to have him tell me or cause you know I, when I was teaching I had him come to the classroom and talk about Vietnam and I had coached the kids before he came and I said, “just be aware of the kind of questions you're asking and if he doesn't want to answer, he won't answer.” Of course, one of the kids says, “did you kill anybody?” You know that's the standard, and I thought I told them not to ask that question, but there are questions you can ask and I think for anyone dealing with a veteran you just have to be careful about the questions you ask and let them tell you what's going on in their heads and little by little. (33.43) �Interviewer: Okay and then you mentioned coming to reunions and so forth and you're listening to the veterans. Do you also find the- the wives have the same kind of experience as you did or? Yes, although you know I haven't found a lot of wives who were married to these veterans when they were in Vietnam. Either their marriages failed, or they weren't married, they were young you know so they weren't married. So, they're just a few that I've talked to that have had some of the same experiences that I have. Interviewer: But I guess a lot of them would have had to learn to live with…. Yes. Interviewer: …the- the aftereffects. Yes, yeah- yeah in fact we do talk about that and they say, “oh yeah that's happened, or yeah he's done this, and yes oh yeah same thing.” So, it's, I think it's common. Interviewer: Alright anything else you’d- you’d like to add to the story here, or other particular memories or impressions that you've got? (34.45) No, I think like I said, our marriage was hard and has been hard. I think that, you know just being together and supporting each other, and our faith has been a lot of that. You know I think if we haven't had that I don't know where he'd be, I'm not sure where I’d be but it's, you just gotta keep going. Interviewer: Alright, well I just like to thank you for taking the time to share this story, it's the kind of thing that a lot of people turns out are interested in and often does not get recorded at all, so thank you very much. You’re welcome. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HansmannL2277V Title A name given to the resource Hansmann, Laura (Interview transcript and video), 2018 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-11-01 Description An account of the resource Laura Hansmann was born in Iowa in 1947. She is the wife of Vietnam veteran Paul Hannsman. Laura discusses the her homefront experiences during the war, the war's effect on her family, child birth while her husband was deployed, as well as the changes she saw as she traveled to various training locations with Paul. She says to expect veterans to be different when they return home and to be supportive by talking to them. She talks about PTSD and the way her husband opened up over time, advising peopel to careful and empathetic when helping a veteran suffering from PTSD. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hansmann, Laura R. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d781ecc5617d42b8d1dff431d34c0af7.mp4 000ad324421ffa2f0bc6c2302d5b98e4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a2486c1588d01fa83a1479913d365c5.pdf 5c8b685d63cfc0848f84c9c061ef9844 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Paul Hansmann Interview Length: (1:30:51) Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Interviewer: We’re talking today with Paul Hansmann of Coons- Coon Rapids, Minnesota. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project and we're conducting this interview at the 2015 Ripcord Reunion. Okay Paul can you start off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born? I was born in August 28, 1948 in Cincinnati, Ohio. Interviewer: Alright did you grow up in Cincinnati or did you move around? I was there until I was in fifth grade and then we moved to Springfield, Illinois and I stayed in Springfield and graduated from high school in Springfield. Interviewer: Okay and what did your family do for a living when you were growing up? My dad was a baker and he worked for a commercial- commercial bakery all of his life. And my mom was a stay-at-home mom most of the time, later on she went to work for the Salvation Army. (1:11) Interviewer: Okay and so what year did you finish high school? I graduated from High School in 1966. Interviewer: Okay and then what did you do after graduation? I went- went to college in Cedarville, Ohio which is a Baptist College. And I went two years there and then I dropped out of college there and went back to Illinois and got a job in the bakery �and worked in the bakery for a while and that's when, that would’ve been 1968 and my wife and I got married in ‘68. She was a, I met her at college, and we got married in Iowa, she came from a farm background and we were married in- in Iowa in 1968. (2:11) Interviewer: Okay, now were you aware of the possibility that once you're out of college you might get drafted? I was aware of that and I didn't, kind of a little bit of a rebellious part of my background and- and I didn't necessarily give a whole lot of thought to it, but I thought no after I get married I probably won't get drafted so, you know. Interviewer: Yeah and if that had been a few years earlier you would have been right, cause that was an exemption there for a while. Alright now well when do you get your draft notice? I got my draft notice in… that, we got married in June of ’68. I got my draft notice probably in September timeframe of ‘68. And was told to report I think it was the 1st of February, end of January or 1st of February of ‘69. (3:22) Interviewer: Okay now did you go through a physical as part of the, this process? Yes. Interviewer: Alright and where did you do that? In St. Louis Missouri. Interviewer: Okay and when you went for the physical did you notice anybody trying to defeat the system or get disqualified or were you all cooperating? �Pretty much all cooperating, I- I didn't notice… it seemed like that most of us were, if we had an ailment or something like that you tended to hide it rather than play it up. See that was from my perspective anyway that's what it seemed like. Interviewer: Alright how much did you know about the war in Vietnam at that time? Not very much. (4:11) Interviewer: Okay. Really not, my dad was a World War II veteran and so that's probably why it didn't bother me one way or another, if it was my duty to serve then so be it. Interviewer: Yeah and were you aware at all of the anti-war movement going on? Oh yes, yeah there was a, there were, the college that I went to out in Ohio was very close to Antioch University and of course they were… me being from a Baptist background and them being from Antioch it was, there was a lot of drugs at Antioch, and long hairs, and war protesters, and so we saw a lot of that. Interviewer: Yeah but they were sort of the other guys. Yeah, they were different. Interviewer: Yeah, Cedarville and Antioch are about as opposite as you could get probably at that point. Yeah, we were. (5:06) Interviewer: Alright yeah okay so you know, you go, you go to the physical, where do you go for basic training? �Went from St. Louis where we got the physical and the swore in procedure, and went to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Interviewer: Okay. For basic training. Interviewer: Alright when you got to Fort Bragg, I mean where there many people from… were you drafted officially out of Ohio as opposed, or- or out of Illinois? Out of Illinois. Interviewer: Okay and they sent you to Fort Bragg. Right. Interviewer: Were there a lot of guys from Illinois there or? Not a lot but I had one very close friend who he and I went the same church when we were in high school, and he went to a different high school but we were in the same church together so we were in youth group and stuff together and- and we got drafted on the same day. He was also married so that, we had that in common and- and so we went through basic training together. (6:07) Interviewer: Alright when you get to Fort Bragg what kind of reception do you get? Loud and proud, a lot of screaming, a lot of yelling. February and in Fort Bragg, North Carolina it was cold and sandy and, but it was a lot of screaming and yelling and kicking things, and trash cans bangin’, and you just kept quiet. Interviewer: Right, welcome to the army right away. That's right. Interviewer: Now do you have a few days of processing before the regular training starts? �None that I remember, they kind of mixed that in as things went along. Spent a lot of time doing push-ups and... Interviewer: Alright so they, okay because it seems to vary from place to place from what kind of experience you get. Of course, Bragg is home of like 82nd Airborne so there may be some of that rubbing off there, I don't know. Okay so they're working you out pretty hard, did you have any idea of what to expect when you got there? Absolutely none. (7:12) Interviewer: Alright. I had heard horror stories but really didn't- didn't- didn't have any idea of firsthand of what to expect. So, it was kind of a rude awakening, people yelling at you, and they- they were more interested in getting you into physical condition and- and which that didn't intimidate me at all because I’d played basketball in college and so I was in pretty decent shape and… Interviewer: Okay, so how long did it take you to adjust to the army way of doing things? Not very long they- they saw to it that you just kept your mouth shut and did what you were told and that's exactly what the goal was, is to react to orders not with a questioning mind but with just a blind following. (8:15) Interviewer: Alright and then aside from the- the PT part, what does the training consist of in basic? Weapons training, familiarizing yourself with- with the language, the phonetic alphabet, the map reading skills, a lot of that kind of stuff. All different types of weapons that- that you would use later, how to talk on radio, how to wire explosives, a lot of different things. �Interviewer: Okay, now the drill instructors, what proportion of them do you think had been to Vietnam? Darn close to 100 percent. Interviewer: Okay did anybody say anything about Vietnam or was it just all by the book? (9:12) No, it was, there was a lot, especially in the harassment stages as they were training us, there was a lot of them that you know we talked about, “if you don't do this, you're not gonna survive.” You know and- and because that was the- the thought process at that point in time is that everybody was going, you know you were here, you were going to Vietnam period. Interviewer: Okay cause early ‘69 is about the peak in terms of American numbers in Vietnam and we go down after that, but they were training a lot of people at that point. Yep. Interviewer: Yeah, okay so you do that and were there other guys who were having trouble with the training or would wash out or get put behind? Yeah there were quite a few, a lot of the guys were out of shape, somewhat soft, and then you had guys on the other end of the spectrum that were, it was a cakewalk for ‘em. So, it was, you had some on both sides but not a whole lot washed out. They kind of got ‘em back around and got ‘em in better shape. (10:20) Interviewer: Alright how long did the training last? Basic training was eight weeks. Interviewer: Okay, and what did they did with you next? �We went to Fort McClellan, Alabama for advanced infantry training and it was a beautiful scenario. Let me backup just a little bit, toward my, toward the end of my training in basic, I contracted double pneumonia. So, they took me into the hospital and temperature was around 105 and they packed me in ice and got my fever down and everything, so my lungs were all full and I was pretty sick boy for a while. And I spent a week in a hospital, and they wanted to keep me there, and I talked them into letting me out because I knew if I stayed more than a week, they would make me go through, back through basic training again and recycle. And the only thing I really had to complete yet was an ending physical training test, a PT test they called it. So, I had to pass it in order to graduate. All my test scores and everything had all been completed and they were fine. So, I had to go out and go do a PT test and I still had double pneumonia actually. And running a mile when you've got double pneumonia it as a challenge believe me. (12:00) Interviewer: Alright. But we went from there to Fort McClellan, Alabama and it was basically more of the same- more of the same training, not quite as much yelling, and more in- in-depth training I would say. Interviewer: Are you getting more into tactics and that kind of thing now or? Yeah, we were a lot more map-reading, observation, learning how to navigate, we had night navigation courses, and survival training that type of thing. Interviewer: Did they make any effort to sort of simulate conditions in Vietnam? They tried to you know as much as you can with Alabama and its totally different country, but it was, they did pretty well with that. Interviewer: What would they do in terms of that, what would they try to show you? �They would set up booby traps, punji pits, those kind of things. How to- how to be aware of your surroundings and- and look for certain things, what trails, you know they would look like in Vietnam and- and what to look for, and that type of thing. (13:21) Interviewer: Okay and at a certain point you wind up getting selected to go to- to NCO school, now was that a something, decision that was made back in basic or was that at AIT, or how did that happen? I think that was at AI- AIT and they had a battery of tests and it, they selected people based on test scores out of it. And in different areas, not only physical test scores but also on aptitude and decision-making and those type of thing. So, I was selected to go to NCO school. I had the opportunity to turn it down if I wanted to but my logic at that point in time was I had done the calculation on, okay what is, how much time does it take for each one of these, and I thought that it would be a lot better to spend as much time as I could in the States and be able have my wife come down and- and live off post and then go to Vietnam so that when I came home I would be out. Or if I didn't come home, then I would have spent as much time with her as I could have, so that was the logic pattern I used. (14:44) Interviewer: Alright so in the first stages of training she wouldn't have been there, right? No. Interviewer: She was back at- back at home but, and then how long was the NCO school scheduled to last? NCO school was ten weeks. Interviewer: Okay. �And she came down after probably a couple weeks. Her and the friend of mine who went to Fort Bragg with me, we go, we had gone through all the same training together and he was also selected for NCO school. And so, his wife and my wife loaded up the car and they came down together. Interviewer: Okay. And they stayed off post. Interviewer: Alright and what kind of accommodation did they find? Do you remember that? Trailer. Interviewer: Okay. (15:28) They lived in a trailer, off of, outside of Fort Benning and they became very good friends, close friends, and did everything together and then they could come in and visit us on Wednesday nights. And then on the weekends we generally got a pass, the married guys got a pass to go off, back to the trailer and spend the weekend with ‘em. Interviewer: Alright now what was the NCO training like? A lot of shit, a lot of leadership skills, how to direct men, how to position them, how to just be in charge. They- they were trying to train leaders, and, in all aspects, I guess. Interviewer: Okay and this was again geared toward Vietnam? Absolutely it was. Interviewer: And the people training you and were they sharing any of their own experiences, or were they just focusing on here are these skills, just do it this way? (16:37) �I got to know a few of them and at nights sometimes they would share some stories, but you find out that after you've been to Vietnam it's pretty hard to talk to somebody about it that hasn't been there, or it doesn't understand. But you start to, as you get to know ‘em, and they get a little more comfortable with it then yeah, they would share. Especially if you pointedly asked them questions, then they would generally. Interviewer: Okay but by this time did you want to know as much as you could about what you were getting into or were you just kind of just going through the program? Just going through the program. I- I really didn't, I really didn't try to learn anything extra as far as what they had been through or what it was, what to look forward to because I knew that all that, everyone was gonna be different. (17:39) Interviewer: Okay so that was a ten-week course, you finished that. Now what do they do with you? Well then, we had to go what they called OJT, and on-the-job training. So, we went to Fort Polk, Louisiana and went down there and were the cadre, the sergeants for a basic training company that was going through their cycle. So, we went through their cycle as their NCOs for eight weeks and our wives, we actually lived off post then because my friend and I both went there, and of course the wives went along and we lived on post with them in a 10 by 50 trailer for a while. And we were off post had to be back on post like at 4:30 in the morning. So, we would leave in the middle of the night, go back to post and then come back home that evening. (18:45) Interviewer: Right because your sergeants now at this point, so you got a little bit more status and a few other things. How did the more experienced, because you would have had �other trainers there who had been to Vietnam and that king of thing, how did they treat you guys? Like shake and bakes, you know that yeah, we had stripes, but we didn't know anything yet and they were very much accurate. They, we- we have the rank and we have the authority over theInterviewer: The troops. Troops but as far as being if you had an E-5 buck sergeant who had been in Vietnam and was back and he had the same rank as we did, there was absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind who was in charge. (19:35) Interviewer: Alright now when you're doing your training whether it was in- in Fort Benning or at- at Fort Polk were they taking any advantage of the available terrain, I mean did you train in swamps at all or? Oh yes, oh yes, a lot of our, and it got progressively more so as you went to Fort Polk because of the- the availability of all the swamps and the really nasty jungle type atmosphere. And so, it was- it was much more in our thought processes as, you know this could be more what it's like. Interviewer: And what time of year were you at Fort Polk? Fort Polk I was in… Interviewer: Late summer or? Late summer, yeah it had to be… we left Fort Polk probably 15th of December, so… (20:39) Interviewer: And how long a stent did you have there? Eight weeks. Interviewer: Okay. �So, I've been back- back it up from. Interviewer: Okay so back- back in a kind of early- early fall but in Louisiana that can still be pretty hot and muggy. It was. Interviewer: Yeah. And it was, it wasn't terribly nasty, but it was- it was definitely warm. Interviewer: And so, I guess some of the time at Fort Benning would have been pretty hot too. Fort Benning was very hot, extremely so. Interviewer: And did working in- in that kind of climate did that help you at all when you got to Vietnam? Some probably some, I- I don't we couldn't relate to the conditions because we couldn't duplicate the- the weight load that you had to carry. If you had to go back and redesign it, you would probably change because we didn't carry a full rucksack, we didn't carry all the ammo, all the things that we had to hump around in the jungle you can't duplicate that. (21:43) Interviewer: The water, the C-rations, and all the rest of that. That's right. Interviewer: Yeah, okay so you've gone through all of this stuff, you get now to the end of the year and do you get a leave before you have to go to Vietnam, is that how it works? Yeah, I had two weeks before we had, two weeks or thirty days, don't remember. But before I had to go to Vietnam and that was somewhat tough, somewhat scared to death. Not knowing what the future holds. �Interviewer: And did you take your wife back home to get re-settled or? Took her back home and she actually lived with her parents, at that point in time she was pregnant with our son and so it was, that was tough. It was challenging. (22:40) Interviewer: Okay and then where do you ship out from? You go to Oakland or Fort Lewis or somewhere else? Yeah Fort Lewis is where we left the States from and I thought that first flight took forever. It was like 21 hours moving from Fort Lewis, to Alaska, to Japan, to Wake Island, and- and into Cam Ranh. Interviewer: Alright and I’m not sure Wake is exactly on the way. Guam maybe. Yeah, but they made a little puddle stop there and I have no idea why. Interviewer: Okay well it’s possible. I- I don't know it could have been Guam. One of the times I stopped at Wake. Interviewer: Yeah Wake might, if you went back to what, to California Wake is a stop. I stopped at Wake Island one time and I can’t remember what … Interviewer: Did you have an R&R in Hawaii eventually? Yes. (23:37) Interviewer: Yeah that- that might have been for that because that would have been in between. Yeah. Interviewer: Alright so you end up doing these things enough, okay I’m learning the routes. �Yeah. Interviewer: Alright so yeah okay but it still basically it's just this tremendously long flight you take over, did you get off the plane in Alaska or in Japan or did you just stay on? We got off the plane and it was terribly cold in Alaska and, but it was, we got off plane, got to stretch our legs and then got back on and kept on going. Interviewer: Okay so where do you land in Vietnam? Cam Ranh Bay. Interviewer: Okay did you come in during the day or at night? Came in during the day. Interviewer: Okay and what's your first impression of Vietnam? Like a slum and- and we got off the plane and actually they’re filing guys on to other planes that have served their tours and that was a very eye-opening experience. That didn't do anything to calm my fears let's put it that way that. (24:37) Interviewer: Okay now were they paying any attention to you or did you just, did they just look scary or? They- they just, they look like they'd been through hell. And- and they had been, and it was, they looked so much older than us. I remember that- that sight of, why are all these old guys, you know that, and they looked tough. Interviewer: And you were probably older than quite a few of them? Yeah, I was probably a couple years older. Interviewer: Yeah. Than a lot of the- the guys that were with us. �Interviewer: Alright so now you get off the plane what do they do with you? We had a seven day in-country training, getting aware of what's going on. Did some rappel work, did some just general indoctrination of what to look for, what to, back through the- the boobytrapped scenario and- and getting your weapon, and getting comfortable with- with the surroundings. Adjusting to the climate, those type of things. (25:53) Interviewer: Did they try to teach you anything about the Vietnamese society or how to deal with the people or was it just military stuff? Most of it as I recall was just military. Interviewer: Okay now at what point do you know what your assignment is? Sometime during that week, they, and- and I would guess based on what the casualties were andand what was going on they determined where they needed you, so. Interviewer: Okay so- so okay, and so what do they assign you to? We were assigned to the, I was assigned to the 2nd of the 506th, Bravo Company. Interviewer: Okay. And I was put in, I didn't know which platoon at that point in time that didn't happen till I got to the company area but… (26:42) Interviewer: So, for the record you’re B Company 2nd Battalion 506th Regiment 101st Airborne Division. That's exactly right. Interviewer: Okay person making this will appreciate that. Okay and where were they based at that time? �They were based out of Camp Eagle, Camp Evans and that was up close to Phu Bai and so that was our next stop. We took a, I think it was a C-130 up there which was in I Corps, the northernmost area in Vietnam. Interviewer: Right and the area where really the most activity had been going on in the previous year. That’s right. Interviewer: Hence the most losses. Okay so the, so I guess Camp Eagle is- is it Phu Bai which is close to Hué and then Camp Evans I guess is a little bit north of that. Yeah, that’s exactly right. Interviewer: Yeah, closer to Quang Tri and Evans was where the Third Brigade was based and that's what your battalion was part of. That's right. (27:42) Interviewer: Okay and so you get up to Camp Evans, was the company there or were they in the field somewhere. Company was in the field. Interviewer: Okay. And all we had was just the new recruits or the new replacement people were there and we were only there probably two days. Interviewer: They, did they give you a training course up there or? Not much, everything, training from that point in time was live-fire, you know and- and you were gonna learn as you went. Interviewer: Okay. �If you survived, you learned. Interviewer: Because a lot of the guys went through sort of the Screaming Eagles Replacement Training thing which is like a week of orientation and patrolling and that kind of stuff, but it might have just depended on the timing for you. Could have done some of that, I don't recall. Interviewer: Okay now how do you wind up joining the unit? Do you wait for them to come back or do you go out? (28:42) Went out on a resupply helicopter. And they had blown an LZ, well no it wasn't, it was- it was kind of more down in the foothills at that point in time so you could secure an LZ and- and get your re… Interviewer: Okay so you were in sort of the lowland area? Yes- yes and- and it was relatively quiet at that point in time, so I had the opportunity it was, I was put in- in charge of the squad even though I didn't know anything, but I was the highest rank. And so, I was a squad leader and I'm gonna say six or seven guys. Interviewer: Okay and how did you approach that? They'd been there longer than you. How did you deal with them or introduce yourself to them? (29:48) Well my point to them was at this point in time when we go to the field, take all the stripes off, take all the insignias off, we’re all, have one point here; is at the end of the year we all get to go home. You guys know what you're doing, I would like for you guys to train me, so that you know if there's- if there's communication between me and higher-ups I'll handle that, but as far as what we do in the field, I need to learn as much from you as I can. �Interviewer: And then how did they respond to that? They were very, very helpful I mean they- they knew that the more that they could teach me, the less apt I was to get them killed. And so, it was a crash course, but they were very good at it and they- they were, they became very close friends. (30:50) Interviewer: Now did you have a sense of how long they had been with the unit or maybe? Yeah that- that was the initial conversation, you know the- the icebreaker so to speak, is, “okay how long have you been here?” You know and then it just it goes from there, where are you from, you know what- what do you do, what are you gonna do? What, and we found some common ground in different areas and things. Interviewer: Had some of them been there long enough to have been in the A Shau Valley the year before or? Yes. Interviewer: Yeah that kind of thing, so they had seen some real combat and- and that kind of thing. One of my closer friends had been, had gotten a Silver Star from the year before and so he had been there and- and knew what it was all about. And- and was, I knew they knew what they were talking about and so… (31:46) Interviewer: So, when was it exactly that you joined them, do you know the approximate date for that? Or what month anyway? Still January… It had to been in February sometime, I think. �Interviewer: February, okay alright and then so where you patrolling in that area for a while before you went anywhere else? What they called Search and Destroy missions, which a lot of searching not much destroying really going on at that point in time. But just familiarizing yourself with the areas, and what to do, and what not to do, and- and how to set up a night defensive positions, and- and just how to survive being out in the jungle. Interviewer: Okay and then how much of a pack did you have to carry once you're out doing that? (32:35) It and, it- it started out as one thing and then as you learn more you figured out what you needed and what you didn't need and the, I would say our rucksack ran in that 60- 65 pound range. Depending on some guys had an affinityfor hand grenades, and some guys carried extra belts of m16 ammo, and it just, it varied from person to person, but you allowed ‘em that freedom because they knew what they were doing. And I was to learn. Interviewer: Okay, now when you're out there in the lowland area did you have any enemy contact? No not really, we- we didn't, we saw, we found some spider holes and things like that. Some areas where some booby traps had been set up and- and things like that and blew them up. But not really any enemy contact. Interviewer: Okay and then at what point does their mission change? And do you go there, somewhere else? Yeah, the mission changed for me and I'm having a hard time relating the dates but we kind of kept moving farther and farther to the west. Getting closer and closer to the mountains and- and I �got more experience, sometime along in March the company commander had put together what was called a battalion Killer Team and you basically what it was was a recon team. And we had five guys on it, and I went out with, I was chosen as one of them and I went out with a friend of mine named Joe Strucke and he had extended his tour, so he had already been in Vietnam probably 14 months. And he went out as a leader and the process was for us to go into the mountains around Ripcord AO and we see aid in there and repelled in and then we were left out there for two weeks, and just to report back every night what was going on to avoid contact. And Joe Strucke had done this before and he was good at it and had been through a lot of stuff so he was training me to be the leader of the… so he was only with us for that two-week period and basically to train all of us and me to- to be able to do what recon work they wanted done. So, after the first two-week period then we got resupplied and Joe left us, and then there was just me and the four other guys and we did that for another cycle or cycle and a part of another one maybe and did that. We made no contact, it was basically a hide-and, hide-and-seek scenario. We had, we- we saw Vietnamese, but we were to not engage them at that point in time just report back. (36:13) Interviewer: So now is this March going into April that you’re doing this? No, this is, this had to be in March. Interviewer: All- all- all in March, okay. All in March. Interviewer: So, before April 1st, alright. So, and what were you observing at that time, you could see enemy, what are they doing? �Troop movements and troop numbers, what- what size units they were working in, you know whether they farther down in the foothills or maybe two or three, as you got into the heavier concentrations, or may have been six or eight moving together. So, just reporting troop movements and- and- and staying out of sight. Interviewer: Now was this scarier work than what you had done earlier? Oh yeah it- it ramped up because when you saw you know six or eight of them out there and you know there's only five of you it wasn't those six or eight that you were worried about, it was, you know what's gonna happen from there. (37:14) Interviewer: Alright and do you have any close calls while camped out at night or situations where they almost step on you? Yeah- yeah and- and generally not late at night, it was generally getting toward dusk and- and that type of thing when they may be walking down a trail and of course we were buried back in the jungle as much as we could be. And you just hoped that nobody rattled anything, but the guys were hand selected so, we knew which ones; no one snored, no one smoked, no one, you know those type of things that were conducive to hiding. Interviewer: Alright now did you encounter any- any wildlife, I mean were there snakes or other kinds of things? Snakes and quick little weasel, whatever they were called, I can't remember now. Name escapes me but, Mongoose- Mongoose and- and every now and then you'd see a rat and whatnot, but a lot of snakes, a lot of snakes and more mosquitoes then you could put in the country, or oughta put in the country so… (38:34) �Interviewer: And could you do anything to protect yourself against the mosquitoes? It- it took a while, you used to put on the bug spray but once we went out there on this team then that stopped. Interviewer: Yeah. So, you could… Interviewer: That- that would smell distinctive. That’s right. So, you quit using that and we- we had become by that point in time, you began to smell like the jungle. Because when I first went to the field it was sixty days before I got my first change of clothes. So, that I- I smelled like jungle by then and not very, and no way a perfume that you want, but I smelled like the jungle and everything, all my clothes had rotted off so to speak. Didn't have- didn't have any underwear, didn't have anything other than my fatigue pants and a t shirt. (39:34) Interviewer: They didn’t- they didn’t resupply you with any clothing? Nope, for sixty days they didn’t. Interviewer: Alright now was the first part of sixty days where you're still in the lowlands and then you just have the same clothes and you've been with those out into the jungle? Now when we went with the- with the Killer Team and went out there then we got camo fatigues. So, we got the different colored fatigues and- and- and we would paint up our faces and- and did some of that too, to help stay out of sight. Interviewer: Right, okay so when did the- the Killer Team thing end? That ended just shortly before April 1st. They pulled everybody in Bravo Company back in and we were getting ready to go to Ripcord. �Interviewer: Okay. And that was planned for April 1st. (40:21) Interviewer: Alright so what do you remember about April 1st? April 1st was very significant, I was being a squad leader, I had a- a smoke grenade. So, Ripcord you could land three helicopters at the same time and we were to try and get the- the Combat Assault in there as quickly as possible. Get all the boots on the ground we could. And so, I was given, I was in that first wave and had a red smoke grenade in my hand just in case we got incoming fire and it was a hot LZ. Of course, as we started coming in, boom, boom, boom, boom the mortars started coming in and so popped red smoke and so did the other two helicopters, I'm not sure who was on them but, and our designation we were given orders on what sector we were to move to. And being on one of the first ones, we were designated to go the far end of the firebase away from Impact Rock, and go to the far point as far as we could and spread my men out, out there, get dug in. So, we went to the far end of the firebase and- and fortunately there was hardly a foxhole out there and although not big enough but it was- it was there and we secured that into the firebase but mortar rounds were raining in with regularity at that point in time. That was 8 o'clock in the morning April 1st. (42:01) Interviewer: Alright now were the mortars targeting the area where you were, or they were mostly going for wherever the helicopters were coming? Mostly going for wherever the helicopters were landing. Interviewer: Now how close were you to… because there eventually this is basically this is sort of a- a bald hilltop at this point, kind of a rocky hilltop with other hills kind of around �it and you're under fire and eventually the firebase would have sort of two helipads on it and were you close to one of the areas that the helicopters would land on there? No, we weren’t. Interviewer: Okay. We were, my squad was- was probably about as far away from the helipad as you could get fortunately. And that- that was a good thing for us because most of the round, now every thenevery now and then you would have a round that would land short of there or long of there or whatever else is they were directing their fire. And you would get, you know shrapnel going overhead as rounds exploded and whatnot and you could hear ‘em, the rounds coming in, that whistle is something that you never forget. So, every time one would come in of course we'd be as low as we could get in the hole. (43:08) Interviewer: And were you taking any small arms fires or just mortars? Heard some 50- 51 caliber rounds. Interviewer: That’s the machine gun, Okay. Interviewer: Alright did any of your men get hit that day? In the company, well Joe Strucke I told you about before, he happened to be with the command group at that point in time. He was kind of the- the first sergeant in the field, he was an E-6 and he- he was wounded. There were a lot of guys getting hit, a lot of- a lot of wounded as the helicopters would come in, before they could get under cover somebody would get hit. And he was wounded, he lost an eye and part of his arms got messed up, but that was the closest of our group, of my squad group that- that would have been. �(44:10) Interviewer: Yeah but your own squad they those guys where okay. They were intact. Interviewer: Okay so now is it to you- you go in there kind of first thing in the morning essentially, one of the first squads in. You- you dig in, you have your positions set up. What happens now to you guys later in the day? The- the rounds and- and this is a day-long process of trying to get all the equipment, the engineers in, to- to get the artillery units in, and all that kind of thing. Trying, attempting to get all this in here, the problem is that as you're trying to do all this there, the mortar rounds are flying. And every bird that comes in, somebody gets hit. Well that requires another medevac and then you're loading guys on the medevac and you put three or four guys on a medevac to get them out of there and two of the guys that are helping load the bodies get hit. So, and the- the helicopters were, they were going down. You know they- they weren't totally disabled but they were shot up enough to where when they got back to Evans they took ‘em out of commission. So, it was constantly of, you know what's the process here? How are you gonna be able to get the wounded out, without causing more wounded? (45:28) Interviewer: Let alone do things like set up an artillery position. An impossible task is what it was. So, later on in the day, it became very evident that this wasn't gonna work. They just had it zeroed in too good and the Cobra Gunships and- and all that kind of thing were flying missions all day long around us. Targeting potential gun sights and mortar pits and things out there in the jungle that were firing at us. They were trying to destroy them. And most of our day was spent trying to site where they were firing from so that we could direct fire �and report back and- and let them know where it was coming from. And so, it was just a constant juggling of trying to get the right thing done which I don't think there was a right thing. (46:26) Interviewer: Alright so now how does this situation resolve itself? Eventually someone made the decision and handed down that we weren't gonna be able to maintain our position there on the hill. So, the- the order was given that at midnight we would walk off that hill. Well there had to be a lot of prep work done in advance of that, simply because we had, at that point in time, we had three KIAS. And we had all this equipment from the wounded guys, got all their rucksacks, and their weapons, and- and it was going on 60- 65 pounds a man. And all these guys gettin’ wounded. So, what are we gonna do with all of it? Well what we ended up doing is we piled it all up in one great big pile. We buried the three guys that were up there and were KIAS. And then so that we could be in position at midnight the, from another firebase, an artillery unit was going to fire an illumination for us. And there was a pathfinder group up there and they were gonna lead us down off of the hill to link up with a sister company because we were pretty well shot out up at that point in time. (47:52) Interviewer: Alright and so how did that evacuation go? The pucker factor went up really high because going for a walk at midnight in triple-canopy jungle is not something I would recommend. And so, we were scared and after being shot at all day long you can imagine. We set it all up, so the explosives were ready to go, and we started down off of there, followed the ridgeline and we were gonna link up with Alpha Company. Got a safe distance away to where they could detonate the, all the supplies and everything else, they wrapped it all with det cord, tied all the explosive together, so it all went up in one great big �charge. And after that it was just a matter of- of them firing illumination continuously from midnight till four o'clock in the morning and it took us four hours to link up with Alpha Company. (48:58) Interviewer: About how far do you think that distance was? I have no idea yeah, I really don't I- I know it was a very cautious walk. It was… Interviewer: So, it may have just been a kilometer or something like that. It could have been, I- I really don't have any idea. I know it was- it was scary. Interviewer: Where they just on one of the neighboring hills or ridges so your kind of going down then back up. Yeah that's- that's the way I kind of remember it and it was kind of, it kind of followed a ridgeline and then and then back up the other side and we- we had to stop at the bottom before was started to go back up because there had to be contact made with Alpha Company and then kind of them guide us up through and where we ought to be and- and then they took us in and we were pretty much a nervous wreck and they took us in and put us in the center of their perimeter and said, “okay guys just crash.” And- and it was, you can finally take a deep breath and- and so it was- it was a scary time, but it was also very, felt good when you finally got to- got to crash. (50:19) Interviewer: Alright so what do you do the next day? Those- those days after that kind of became a little bit of a blur. It just, we went several days of just patrolling around Ripcord again. And did a lot of things there was some point in time that we actually went back to Evans, I don't remember when that was. �Interviewer: Cause one of the other people from the company I interviewed talked about being out there and pretty much running out of food. We did that, absolutely I, it was a point in time when the- the weather got really bad and we were soaked in and they couldn't get us resupply and we were- we were out of food and I remember nobody had any C- rations. And one of the guys had a little tin with some crackers in it, four crackers and some cheese and he was offered twenty- twenty dollars for that little, and that's all there was. And, but we would, we were hungry, we were just flat hungry. And ended up, they couldn't get an LZ, we couldn't get an LZ cut there for us, but Delta Company had gotten resupply, so Delta Company took all of our supplies as well and it- it was just our process to link up with them. So, that's what we did, and we spent a- a while trying to get with them and then once we got to them, there again it was the same thing because we were shorting numbers. Our company size was probably, I don’t know, I’m thinking there were only 35 or something like that in our entire company. (52:18) Interviewer: How many do you think you took on to Ripcord originally? Probably 75. Interviewer: Yeah. Somewhere in that neighborhood, so when we linked up with Delta Company then they took us in, they knew we'd been without for a long time and- and Captain Rollison said, “you guys go in, get your C- rations, eat as much as you want, just sit down and relax. Don't worry, we've got you covered.” And so that was, there again that was one of those whew man through this one. �Interviewer: Okay so part of what's going on at this point is the weather is bad enough it's hard to be able to get back in and really conduct operations effectively because you can't resupply, let alone establish a base up on top of Ripcords. Right. Interviewer: Okay so you do that, eventually you do get back to Evans and then you go back out in the field again? (53:05) Yeah, we went back out in the field and more of the same Search and Destroy missions, looking for the enemy trying to figure out troop strength. Preparing to go for another assault on Ripcord. I knew that Alpha Company had tried in March to- to take the hill. We had tried April, and so I assumed there was probably gonna be one of the other two companies that were gonna try it the next time, so we were out in the jungle and I was tickled to death to be there to be honest about it. That was, I felt safer out there than having mortar rounds raining it on your head. Interviewer: And then Charlie Company then goes up I guess on 10th or 11th of April. Yeah. Interviewer: They walk up the side and for some reason don't get shot at. (53:58) For some reason and had the opportunity to actually establish the fire base, and of course they had the perfect man there to do it. And- and Izzy… Interviewer: Vazquez. Yeah Izzy I a call him. Captain Vazquez was up there and of course didn't know about this until many decades later his- his true expertise and- and why he knew what he knew, you know he was- he was the man and all my respect for that- for that individual. But then it was so that �would have been mid- April we were- we were kind of on a rotation then for, as I recall, it was two weeks, we had four companies I don’t know if it was probably Delta and. Interviewer: Charlie and Delta yeah. Charlie, and we went, we were on the firebase providing perimeter support for two weeks and then six weeks out in the jungle was basically what it was. So we were patrolling a round Ripcord, just doing the same old thing, trying to survive and then along came May and we were out in the field, and we probably had an objective to get to a certain point but it was actually, and I expressed my opinion that that's too far to try and travel in one day. You just, you can't move that far, and we had a relatively new lieutenant, matter of fact very new, but he was gonna try and impress the brass and- and he stretched how far we should travel. (55:51) Interviewer: Now were the platoons operating separately at this point? Yes. Interviewer: Okay. And so, and I may have been in a position at that point in time where I was the platoon sergeant, and so we tried to move farther than we could. We got to that position, we made it but it didn't give us time to set up listening posts, to get dug in, to scout the area, and- and see what we were, to get our claymores set up, or any that kind of thing. We didn't have time to do that because it was dark, so here we were, we got in there and we- we dropped our rucksacks and the guys are exhausted and hadn't had anything to eat, when all hell broke loose. And they opened up on the 5th of May and- and started firing and RPGs and- and small-arms fire, machine-gun fire, a lot of AKs. (56:54) �Interviewer: Now were you on a hilltop or inside of one or? Kind of- kind of on a little rise, a little bit. We weren't way high up, but it was- it was a little bit of a rise and because that was the best place we could find to try and get a vantage point. I immediately picked up the radio because I had a lot of training in mortars from NCO school. So, I could act as a forward observer and the first thing I did was got a hold of- of Ripcord and got a hold of mortar platoon and called in a fire mission and started walking mortar rounds in on ‘em. And the lieutenant he didn't know how to, I didn't really have much contact with him after that. He was, I think it was his first firefighter or first experience, so he was pretty rattled. And so, I handled that and I did probably made my biggest mistake as I, in order to see where the rounds were firing so I could direct ‘em, I got up on top of a rock and had the radio in my hand well a RPG round landed relatively close and- and I got hit in the neck and knocked me off the rock and we had four, four or five other guys that got some shrapnel. No one was killed, but we were shot up and we got the- the enemy was dispersed. They quit firing but the problem was they couldn't get a helicopter in to- to get the wounded out. And they said, “well we'll just have to wait till morning,” because there was no LZ anywhere around us. So, we spent that night out there and then they came in the next day and they took all of- all of us wounded out in a jungle penetrate. (59:01) Interviewer: And can, describe what that was for someone who's never heard of one. A jungle penetrator is a pronged seat that they lower down on a cable from a helicopter, so the helicopter has to hover and drop this down through the- the trees and then you get on the seat and hang on and they pull you, elevate you out without the helicopter ever landing. Interviewer: Alright and they had to do that for five guys. Yup. �Interviewer: Did that have to be one at a time that they did that? Well they actually brought in two birds. Interviewer: Okay. They brought in- they brought in two of them, one after the other one and so we got to go, and we went to Danang. We went straight to Danang from the jungle. Interviewer: Okay and then how long were you away from the unit then? (59:51) Had surgery on that next day and then was in the hospital there, woke up in intensive care. Was in the hospital there for probably three/ four days, and then went from there to Cam Ranh Bay to recover. Because they had left the- the wound open to allow it to drain. And they, I was there for say two and a half weeks, something like that in Cam Ranh. Interviewer: Now while you were there, we were able to get up and move around or did they keep you in the bed? No, I was- I was able to get up and move around. And really didn't, the scariest part was at the hospital when we went in there because nobody was hurt terribly bad. And I, you know I was hit in the neck but didn't feel bad or anything, but the doctor came out and said, “Sargent Hansmann.” And I said, “yeah” and he said, “I want you to just remain still,” and I said, “okay what's going on.” And they brought out a gurney and laid me down on a gurney and told me not to move. And they took me in, what they found out was one piece of the shrapnel, a long piece was lodged between my jugular vein and my spinal cord. And it was very close to both and so they had I guess some tricky surgery to get it out without messing something up worse. But it -it all turned out fine. And it healed up but some of the shrapnel stills in there but. (1:01:41) �Interviewer: Okay now we were talking about you were being treated at Cam Ranh Bay. They've taken, done the operation, you’re recovering from that, you can kind of get around and that sort of thing. So, what point soon, was there- was there anything else about that stay that you wanted to bring into the story before we take you back to your unit. It was a, everything went well with the recovery, spent some time going to movies, doing some things that you, most people would consider kind of normal and yeah it was a- it was a good time frame. Interviewer: So, it was kind of a vacation? Yeah, it was kind of a vacation. Interviewer: Alright so when do you rejoin your unit? Rejoined the unit in… some time the very first part of June, and went back to the unit, and was basically, I think we, I rejoined them on Ripcord. I flew out to Ripcord and then was out there for a few days because I think the unit was- was providing perimeter security but then sometime very shortly after that we went back out to the field. (1:03:00) Interviewer: Okay. So, we walked off Ripcord, somebody else took our place and we were out in the field and that was until… June 12th my son was born. Interviewer: Okay. And he contracted, my wife had problems in childbirth, and he contracted double pneumonia and was in really tough shape. Well of course I didn't know all this was going on back there at that point in time, it was a few days after he was born that helicopter came out and had a chaplain on it. And once again, they said, “we need to see Sergeant Hansmann.” And whenever that �happened something bad was going on, he came over and he says, “I've got this for you Sarge,” and it was a Western Union telegram. And the only thing that it says on the telegram is, “your wife has given birth to a son. Baby's condition terminal. Wife's condition doubtful.” And that's all I. Interviewer: Wow That's all that was on it. So, I was needless to say very upset, emotional, and he said, “Sarge,” the chaplain said, “Sarge we're gonna take you back, you've been granted a 30-day emergency leave to go back home, take care of your family.” So, got on the helicopter, went back still have no idea what's going on, and no way to find out what's going on. Went back to the- to the base and turned in all my gear, everything and first sergeant was there and he- he helped me with getting all of the everything processed and everything done that needed to do and was very compassionate with what was going on and helped me get all that done. Got on plane and went down to, I supposed to Cam Ranh or Danang somewhere and got on a bird to go back home, flew back home flew into SeaTac again and it was then in Seattle that I was finally able to make phone call. And got ahold of- of the family and found out that my son had survived, and my wife was doing fine and that by the time I got home from Seattle they were gonna be able to come home, so, everything turned out beautifully. But and- and the backstory to that, my wife's doctor who was delivering, delivered the baby and everything was a Vietnam vet. He was an Army doctor in Vietnam, so he knew what procedures it took to get me home and all that and he did. And so, my son recovered from pneumonia and although it stunted his growth some, he's only 6’5 and 230. But- but everything turned out well and so I got to spend 30 days here in the States and then the- the hard part was I had to get on that plane and come back. So, then the, it was probably 14th of July or something like that I came back to Vietnam. Went back up, took several �days to get from Cam Ranh back up to the company unit to get my gear and everything and it was- was getting ready to go back out to Ripcord. Well that got into the, right around the 20th or so of July. (1:07:16) Interviewer: Okay. And Top came down and said, “Sarge we're getting ready to pull everybody off that hill. There's no sense in you going out there.” So, I was, I waited then and rejoined my group when they came back, I was on the pad as they came back. Interviewer: Alright and what had you been able to learn during that time about what had happened at of Ripcord while you were gone? It, just the stories that first sergeant and I would sit down, and- and he would share with me what was going on, and how bad it was. And- and all the things that had happened, and at- at that point in time I was, that was the beginning of my struggle with survival skills I guess, is this ain’t good. Interviewer: Because you had missed, because your company had been up there in the first three weeks of July and that's when the base came under heavy bombardment. Eventually helicopter crashed on the 18th, blew up the ammo dump then after that they kind of had to go. But those guys had been through all of that and you were off doing all this other stuff. Yeah. (1:08:30) Interviewer: Okay so, now… on, so the 23rd of July is when they actually evacuate the base, what did you do that day? �That day I was down on the helicopter pad and just helping the guys with their stuff, greeting old friends, and- and consoling them and just, you know and they, there was absolutely no, they didn't feel from their perspective like I felt in mine. That I wasn't there to help they said, “Sergeant nothing you could do. There was nothing we could do,” you know you just but… Interviewer: Okay, the company didn't lose too many men at- at that point. No. Interviewer: They had taken some wounded, not too many killed, but still they've gone through all that and- and you hadn’t. Once they're back, now what happens to you and the company? We went, I think we went to Eagle Beach and- and then we're, you know kind of getting everything realigned and kind of figured out. Everybody's trying to figure out where do we go from here and what do we do. So, we went, eventually we went back out in the field again. And in different AOs I don't even remember where. (1:09:52) Interviewer: Was this, it's still in the mountains or hill country? Yeah- yeah it was and so we went back out and we were doing that and- and then I went on an R&R because I hadn't taken one and I was still eligible for one. Around the 8th of August as I recall and met my wife in Hawaii, which was again you know a relatively short period of time since I'd seen her. Was- was really fun and we had a good time together and- and after that went back with the company doing the same old things again and the same procedure, you know being in the jungle and whatnot. Interviewer: Now was there much contact at that time? Was it quiet? (1:10:41) �It- it seemed like it was a lot quieter at that point in time. And I had gotten to know our first sergeant really well and- and I told him, “okay at some point in time as I'm getting shorter here or have seen, you know, been wounded once, and have- have been through several things, if the opportunity presents itself and you can pull me out of the field, send me to…” I said, “I'm trained in mortars.” I said, you know, “just send me to a mortar platoon,” and, you know that’d be good if it works out. And it took a while but sometime in later September then something opened up and he said, “Sarge, gonna move into- in the mortar platoon for your last period of time,” and so I was up there and- and got to know a lot of the guys, became a squad leader there in the mortar platoon didn't know anything about mortars because I had forgotten everything I’d learned but there again I was in the same situation and they knew where I’d been and what I’d done so they were very comfortable with, they knew their jobs they didn't need me. And so, I just did whatever was necessary to help them out and make their job easier. So, the last six weeks or so I was there and that was a- that was really a good deal and to put it time-wise in perspective you think, well that's doesn't add up to a year, but while I was home for that 30-day leave my father in law made me an offer; he was a farmer and he said- he said, “what are you gonna do when you came home?” And I was, in college I was an accounting major and I said, “I cannot see myself sittin’ in an office,” I said, “I'd go nuts.” And he says, “well you want to come home and help farm?” I said, “I'd love to.” So, I put in for an early out to go home and help with the harvest, which was very legitimate and so I ended up getting an early out to come home and help farm in November. (1:13:10) Interviewer: Alright now the meantime I guess with the mortar platoon were they usually on a fire base somewhere? �Yes, I was on Fire Base Kathryn and that's where I met Pops, John Henry. And a- a lot of thethe guys, matter in fact one of the guys I had been through NCO school with was there as well so and it was relatively quiet at that point in time. Interviewer: Now would the base take any incoming of one kind or another was it just quieter? Very little, if any. Interviewer: Alright. Very little, we would hear some AK fire every now and then and- and of course having been out there and been involved in several different contacts and fire fights and whatnot. I- I could tell how far away it was, I can tell which direction it was firing, and all that and it was kind of funny because the mortar guys would, as soon as they hear an AK go off they’d grab a helmet, and would bury underground and I was standing up there looking around because you can tell what's going on and you, when you need to get down and when you don’t. (1:14:16) Interviewer: Yeah, alright so the, at some point back before the end of Ripcord, sometimes mortars would actually go out in the field at least briefly with- with units. Yeah. Interviewer: But you weren't doing that at this time? No, we were not doing that. Interviewer: Okay a couple other kinds of questions is sort of a lot of stereotypes about Vietnam and what went on over there and- and so forth. One of them has to do with just the question of race and racial tensions, did you observe any of that yourself or? �No, we really, we had no problems whatsoever. We had at some point in time there, I don't remember, we had a platoon sergeant come in. His name of Jim Burdette, and very educated, he had a master’s degree in mathematics. And he was an E-6 and, but he was drafted just like the rest of us, went through NCO school, very intelligent, six-foot five black guy who- who commanded a lot of respect but was a really, super intelligent, nice guy. And that kind of kept I think any racial, that- that kept it down, although we didn't have any before that either. (1:15:44) Interviewer: Well you spent most of your time in the field too. Yeah and there's no room for that. Interviewer: Yeah- yeah and that again, that may apply to another one of the stereotypes that has to do with- with drug use, I mean when you get back… Absolutely none. Wouldn't stand for it, I- I wouldn't stand for it and neither did anybody else. And we just, there was something, now when they were in the rear area or at Eagle Beach or something like that, was some of that done? Could have been, I- I have no idea, but when we were in the field it was absolutely taboo. You- you didn't do that cause you were gonna get yourself killed and somebody else too, so. Interviewer: And also, how much did you see of the Vietnamese themselves; I mean did you have any Kit Carson Scouts around or anything like that? (1:16:34) We had a Kit Carson Scout on a few different occasions, not for long periods of time. We found them rather worthless because they didn't want to walk point, they didn't want to walk slack. They wanted to walk at the rear, and they wouldn't carry their share of the load, they wouldn't work, I, we, I had no use for ‘em personally but it's- it's kind of like scout dog philosophy and we �had that one episode with a scout dog that he led us right straight into an ambush and then the dog died and the handler got all shot up and- and all those kinds of things. Interviewer: Now the Kit Carson Scouts were supposed to be enemy soldiers who turn themselves in, who could then show things to you. And in some cases, seem to be people who are avoiding the South Vietnamese Army but- but so it kind of varied for how useful any of them were. So, you've got that, now did you see any Vietnamese civilians like on the base camps or around them? (1:17:41) Just back when we were in the rear, really didn't see, there were a few occasion when we saw some Montagnard’s, wood cutters used to call them they- they would be out cutting trees or whatever. And saw a few of those, but as far as much Vietnamese population, only in the rear area. If- if they were in the jungle and they were Vietnamese, they were- they were a target in our opinion. Interviewer: Yeah because there weren't really regular villages or things out there in that area. No there were not. Interviewer: Okay, now in the- in the rear area, I mean where these people who just working on the bases or where their villages around or? There were villages around and- and- and they- they were doing, you know hooch maids or whatever else and- and that type of stuff. Working in- in some of the mess halls and that kind of thing, so. (1:18:41) Interviewer: Yeah, but you didn't spend really any time in- in these built-up areas. �No, I didn’t. Interviewer: Particularly at all. So, okay and did you, what understanding did you have by the time you left, how did you view the war itself? Frustrated, would- would probably be the- the biggest word that would come to mind, simply because of my experience with Ripcord, you know we tried to take it in March, we tried to take it in April, we took it later on in April and established it, and we're up there, got a lot of guys killed, a ton of guys wounded. And we had no idea until decades later what kind of enemy force we were dealing with, and then ended up just walking away from ‘em and giving it all back to ‘em. And we, I have a hard time figuring out exactly what we accomplished. And my only way of justifying everything is somebody else has to live with the decisions that were made and why they were made. I only have to live with the decision that I did what my duty was as a soldier. (1:20:04) Interviewer: Right. And- and supported- supported the leadership by doing what they asked and supported my men by trying to take care of ‘em as best I could. Interviewer: Alright now what's the process for getting you home once you- you get orders, you can leave, now what do they do with you? It was just a matter of like a day or two before I was supposed to go home. Came back to the rear, got everything turned in, cleaned up, new set of fatigues, all those kinds of things. It was kind of a fast blur at that point, trying to say goodbye to people, and- and hoping that they made it. Got on the plane, went to Seattle, went through a process I think I was there probably a week or so. Processing out, getting a physical and- and- and got a new set of dress greens, and had a good meal and whatnot. And then went to the airport and I- I thought, boy can only be great from �here, and I walked in the airport and of course there's all the protesters. And had signs everywhere and I walked, first thing it is, I went to the bathroom, walked in there and here's a trash can overflowing with dressed greens. Guys didn't want to have to deal with all the protesters, so they put on the civilian clothes of course it's, you can tell a soldier that’s been in war real quick and it didn't do ‘em any good to change their clothes but that's what they did. And I thought that's really sad, that that is truly sad to see that, those dress greens just running out the top of a garbage can. That image is still burnt in my brain and I thought, okay guys, I just went through a war, if you think you're gonna get me to take this off I got news for you, have at it. So, I left mine on and very proudly walked out there. And they, I didn't have any, they weren't interested in- in real confrontation. They just- they just wanted to be loud, so I just ignored ‘em. Got on a plane and flew home. (1:22:40) Interviewer: Alright and so when do you actually get back home? It’s now November, December? It had to be- it had to be in November. Interviewer: Okay. And I actually felt a commitment because I had been given the drop to go home and farm. I- I got home and the next day I was on a tractor. I and that's one of my bigger regrets is that I didn't take time to decompress, you know that's a matter of a week earlier I'd been in the jungle carrying a rifle and shooting at people. Interviewer: Yeah. And I didn't come home and take the time to decompress because I felt they gave me this drop, it's my responsibility to do what I said I was gonna do. So, I went home, and I farmed. �(1:23:30) Interviewer: Okay and so now what was the readjustment process like for you then? It was a- it was a struggle. I was a different individual and to try and come home, and I was very devoted to my family and my wife, but I didn't know how to do that. And she didn't know how to react to me either and it was- it was hard. It was- it was a tough experience for us to- to try and live through that being two totally different people, because now she was a mother and I hadn't been there for that process and I was a just a totally different… the pictures look like ten years difference and so.. Interviewer: And so how did you deal with that or sort things out? (1:24:25) Kept it inside. Tried to do what I thought people wanted to see. It wasn't exactly who I was and didn't talk about it, and that was the- that was a problem and didn't discover how big of a problem until years and years later. And didn't really talk a whole lot about it until my first Ripcord Reunion. Interviewer: Okay and when was that? That was the first year it was in Indianapolis. Interviewer: Okay. This is my fourth, so we were two years at Myrtle Beach and then two years before that in Indianapolis. Interviewer: Okay so 2011 was the… Yeah. Interviewer: Alright and did you manage to stay married all that time? Interesting that, now we're gonna get kind of personal. �Interviewer: Well if, this is you can talk about it or not. I will. (1:25:26) Interviewer: That’s… I will- I will. There’s no holds barred here. My wife and I were married for thirty years and it just through the process of the war and whatnot and a lot of other issues, she said that she wanted a divorce. And we went to counseling and whatnot and the counselor began to drag out, the psychologist, began to drag out some of this Vietnam stuff. He sensed that that was part of it, and he started part of that. And Laura began to hear some things that she had never heard before. And but anyway she filed for divorce and we got divorced in 1998. And she, I- I didn't want it and she called me the day the divorce was final and said, “Paul, I think I made a mistake.” And my comment to that was, “no shit.” But- but I said, “you got what you wanted,” so I walked away. And it was about, well 1999 December 23rd we got remarried and have been together and happy ever since. (1:26:55) Interviewer: And so now after that- that was kind of a product of all of that, the counseling, were you starting to get some counseling or some support by this time? Not a lot at that point in time. I- I became, because she started asking more questions then. And so, I did start to open up more, and then along came a job change and- and some other things went on and we moved from Iowa to Illinois. And eventually came in contact with Craig Van Hout and- and talked to me some and then he talked about there was an Illinois group that they were getting together, for just the guys from Illinois are gonna have lunch. And it was relatively close by, half an hour. Apprehensive about going to that and whatever but Laura finally prodded �me into doing that and we did and met some guys, and we went out laid a wreath at the cemetery there and whatnot. And got to know the guys; Floyd Alexander, Dale Lane and some of those guys, George Murphy and they said, “you've got to go to a reunion Paul. You’ve got to.” And Floyd it was just, it was fascinating because he helped me out back in the, your mind you wonder whether or not you remember the things that really happen. And so, I was talking with Floyd about April 1st and he said, “April 1st, that was the only time I was in Vietnam that we had to get resupplied with illumination rounds in the night to fire illumination for you guys.” And so, he just verified. (1:28:43) Interviewer: Yeah. You know the whole thing. So, anyway then I said “okay,” so I signed up for the reunion in- in 2011 and we went, and it was probably the best thing I ever did. And Laura's comment who was a speech and English teacher said it was fascinating to sit by the side and just watch you guys, everybody’s speaking the same language. You don't have to explain what a CA is, or what an LZ is, or what- what an RPG is, or, you don't have to explain anything. You just talk to one another because you all speak the same language. And so, it- it just kind of grew from there and- and she still thinks I've got PTSD which yeah, I probably do. [unintelligible] Interviewer: Yeah, so, it’s the sort of thing where different people deal with it different ways. You actually did what an awful lot of the World War II and Korea guys did, and that is you- you're carrying the baggage with you and you just kind of put it away. And it does affect your behavior and how you interact with people in certain ways and that sort of stuff. So, likely yeah if you go to the psychologist, they would diagnose that, but I'm not a �psychologist so I'm just a historian but I’ve seen a lot of that. But you know, but I mean that’s what you were always expected to do. Was just suck it up… (1:30:10) That’s what my dad did. Interviewer: And go forward and sometimes that works and sometimes if you're able to talk about, you work it through, you get control of it, and it doesn't rule you in the same way. And clearly your relationship with your wife has changed because of it, so that may help and certainly connecting with the guys who were there can be tremendously helpful. And in the meantime, what it's done is it's enabled you to sort out your story well enough that you've done a very good job of telling it today. Thank you. Interviewer: So, I’d like to thank you for coming and sharing. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HansmannP1891V Title A name given to the resource Hansmann, Paul (Interview transcript and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-10-31 Description An account of the resource Paul Hansmann was born in Cincinnati, Ohio on August 28, 1948. Hansmann was drafted in 1969 and underwent raining at Fort Bragg, Fort McClellan, Fort Benning, and Fort Polk. He was then selected for NCO school where he trained according to the war in Vietnam. He was then deployed to Camp Evans in Vietnam with the B Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. He conducted Search and Destroy missions and was chosen to be on a battalion Killer Team in the mountains around Ripcord AO before the assault of the firebase. He was later stationed at Firebase Kathryn before recieving an early-out to go home and help his father in law farm in Iowa. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hansmann, Paul N. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/41f80e9021b1accc76a6ea251d64dadf.pdf 82ae7ec7c093072495d91502318760f8 PDF Text Text Happy Birthday to … by windoworks I don’t know about you but I’m exhausted. I was washing my hands singing Happy Birthday to Me through twice but it was embarrassing. My birthday isn’t until November and it felt weird singing it to myself about 12 times a day, so now I count to 30 because that’s roughly the same as 20 seconds, right? And also, 12 times a day or more? Should I be keeping a tally? Do I have to fit a couple more hand washes in late at night if I haven’t reached my goal? What about the mailbox? The mail deliverer has to open the box to put the mail in. Should I disinfect the latch daily? Oh and what about the mail sorters? Do they wear gloves? CB came home from school yesterday and told me that his class had a long discussion of the virus. Because all professors had been told that they needed to be ready to conduct classes online should the university close, he felt he should discuss preventative measures. The ramifications slowly dawned on his students especially because while their discussion was going on, one student told him that as she was watching alerts on her phone, 4 universities closed in Ohio in the space of 45 minutes. Last night Governor Whitmer declared a State of Emergency with 2 confirmed cases in Michigan. She said our main objective is to slow the spread of the virus down. At the Grand Rapids Neighborhood Summit on Saturday I attended a breakout session on climate change and disaster readiness. I was heartened to realize that we have every emergency supply except a generator and a wind up radio. I do know that as long as the gas lines remain intact, I can cook by lighting my stove with matches. In Sydney Australia there is no toilet paper left. There’s no hand sanitizer, no sanitizing wipes and no antiseptic sprays. They’ve even begun panic buying baby wipes which is driving my daughter ZB crazy. There’s no alcohol in baby wipes so they won’t kill a virus but they will clean a baby’s bottom without hurting it. In New Zealand for the 4th consecutive day, there has been no new cases of Coronavirus – and their stockpile of emergency masks in 18 million. Their population is almost 5 million. I think they’ve got it covered, don’t you? Meanwhile in Michigan we have 300 test kits. Our population is at least 10 million. I”ll just leave that there. So its back to hand washing, coughing and sneezing into your elbow, not touching your face (good luck with that), maintaining a respectful (and safe) distance from others, elbow bumping others or waving (no handshakes or fist bumps), and staying home if you’re sick. �It’s hard to conduct life as usual under these circumstances. Many things seem up in the air. The best we can do is remain careful but cheerful. As someone once said: All things pass – both good and bad. And as my friend RA says: that is all, carry on. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Happy birthday to... Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-03-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-03-11_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-00_Prelude Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/70bc3dcb72ccb8b65bb4300f02bf3392.jpg 2604acb214914f0aba3253bff8c87a25 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection Commencement 1960s Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1969 Title A name given to the resource Happy Graduates Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_001689 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Description An account of the resource Group of GVSU graduates looking happy during Commencement ceremony. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Events Students Graduation ceremonies Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright - Non-commercial use permitted.</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives 1960s black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d8d76529232e63ae503ac7da1c38d3c.jpg 840d1544d2ff56b9a594d42a002ee938 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_FilmPacks_5_001 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1937-03-28 Title A name given to the resource Harbor Naples Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of the Naples Harbor. Several boats are visible in the harbor. Subject The topic of the resource Boats Naples (Italy) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/193e740b84c49892a66d62cb798be10f.jpg dc2772788313ee7e617ac5dc808b2dae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_EastmanAlbum_1_1909_061 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909-07-12 Title A name given to the resource Harbor Point Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Harbor Point, Michigan, likely viewed from a boat. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4368aa1ea37e2cbfa087339c30a6f753.jpg fbb78c3e03980e97bbd86b4ef86dd3e3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_EastmanAlbum_1_1909_062 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909-07-12 Title A name given to the resource Harbor Springs Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Harbor Springs, Michigan. Subject The topic of the resource Boats Michigan Harbor Springs (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a72a15d2c709d9403240be3ca9248927.jpg 8f1a58886a668ca3abe730ce3bd6d3d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarderRichard Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Harder, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Harder, Psychology Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/60bd104750b284c4e2af7ed94fbb62c1.mp4 57085fda168acdccda64a317121800ee https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/491c16063f3546b926c1fdc30e8d9247.pdf 877e01d16ddbe9650a147e76d610a9eb PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW BILL HARDIMAN Born: May 26, 1947 in Pontiac, Michigan Resides: Kentwood, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, September 21, 2013 Interviewer: Now Bill, can you start us off with some background on yourself? To begin with, where and when were you born? Frist of all, my full name is Clyde Preston William Hardiman the third. I was born without the William part, but being named after my father, for some reason they called him bill and they called me Billy when I was a kid. I’m hoping no one will call be Billy now when I ran, folks knew me as, ran for public office, people knew me as Bill, so I added William to my name, so I was born Clyde Preston Hardiman, now William Hardiman III. I was born in Pontiac, Michigan in 1947, May 26th, 1947. Interviewer: What did your family do for a living in those days? Well, my dad painted signs, which, of course, doesn’t happen anymore. Everything is kind of printed up or done electronically, but he was quite a sign painter. 1:00 He would go out and paint the windows of gas stations or buildings, or whatever, and paint some advertisement for whatever business it was, and he was very good at it. We had a pretty large family, we were poor and you had to paint a lot of signs to take care of eight kids, I guess, but that’s what he did with—when I was two years old my family moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan. Interviewer: Did he continue on as a sign painter when he did that? 1 �He did, he did and my parents separated when I was about fourteen years old, so mom raised eight kids herself and she just did a phenomenal job under some very difficult circumstances. Interviewer: Where did you come in the sequence of kids? I was the third oldest of those living, I had a sister who died at childbirth, but I was the third oldest and I had two sisters older than me. 2:04 So, I was the oldest guy, so I kind of needed to be the man of the family, so that’s what I was, the oldest brother. Interviewer: Then how much education did you have? Well, a good education, I went to Franklin Elementary School right in Grand Rapids, and then South High School. The same school as Gerry Ford, but not at the same time, and then college, and I went to Grand Rapids Junior College, which it was back then and now it’s Grand Rapids Community College, then Grand Valley State University where I received my undergrad degree and then Western where I received my master’s in public administration. Interviewer: How far had you gotten in school when you were drafted? Were you entered in college or had you done some of that? That’s an excellent point, I really graduated from high school, went down to Junior College, it was called at that point in time, did a semester and didn’t really know what I wanted to do. 3:07 I got out and I was drafted, and went back to school once I came back and was a bit more focused and serious about life. Interviewer: At the time you got drafted, did you have much of an awareness of what was going on in the world or that there was a war in Vietnam or any of that kind of thing? 2 �You know it seem kind of amazing now to look back at that time, but I can remember growing up and thinking, “I don’t even know who the mayor is, or what a mayor is”, and I wasn’t as aware, I mean I knew there was a war going on and that became more, and more real to me once I was drafted and in the army, but didn’t know much about it and didn’t know the politics around it. I was just a young kid and I was drafted. Interviewer: When did you get your draft notice? 4:02 Boy, I don’t know, I mean I went into the army in October of 1966, so sometime, a little while before that. I went down, I think it was Fort Knox, Kentucky, and I was at that time a conscientious objector, so I went down to Fort Sam Houston and became a medic. Interviewer: How did you go about the business of getting yourself classified as a conscientious objector? I don’t know, it was through my church, it was The Church of God at the time and again, I was learning about life. Once I went over to Vietnam—I remember going over and one of the sergeants, or whatever, was handing out weapons and I said, “No”, and he said, “You’re going now, so there’s no sense in claiming that”, and I said, “Well, that’s what I believe”. Once I was over there I kind of began to think about it for myself and not just my church. 5:05 I’m a very strong Christ follower, but sometimes a church can dictate a certain thing and I thought, “You know what, I would—I love my country, I want to protect my country, but I would certainly protect my patients and myself, being a medic”, so I realized I was always looking to see whether, as we traveled, where the nearest firearm was in case I needed to grab it and protect, so I thought, “Good grief, you might as well carry a weapon”, so after about nine months in Vietnam, I did carry a forty-five for that protection. 3 �Interviewer: We’re going to go back sort of to—you get inducted, were you processed on Fort Knox, or were you processed in Michigan first and given test and things like that in Detroit or someplace? 6:00 It’s kind of hazy because of the years, but I think there were some test that there and then I went to Fort Knox for induction and then they sent us over to Fort Sam Houston for basic training, and also AIT training. Interviewer: What did your basic training consist of? Everything except the firearms, and I tell a story quite often about that, because I think I learned so much, and really grew as a person and matured into manhood from my time in the army. I remember going down to Fort Sam Houston and we were going through our basic training. We’re out in the field and the sergeant started yelling at us and jumping us just like they do everyone else and the pressure was very hard initially, being a young kid and I have never been away from home to speak of and had never been out of the state of Michigan. 7:00 Here I am, away from family, away from home, and there’s all this pressure on me. But, I kind of knew how to behave myself, so I was just dealing with it, but I remember one day we were out in the field and we were doing the low crawl, and crawling under barbed wire and our elbows and knees were boing skinned up and the barbed wire was catching and it was pretty miserable, we were working hard and we stopped and took a break, and I remember folks sitting out in the field under this tree and the sergeant started to talk to us. This was after a few weeks after we have been in and one of the guys said to the sergeant, “Hey, you guys are so bad, you’re almost being inhuman. Why are you so hard on us?” I’ll never forget what the sergeant said, and it has helped me in life, he said, “When you leave here, some of you will go to Vietnam and 4 �you’re going to be in a war zone. 8:03 And I sense you’re not used to being in a war zone, so you have to learn how to obey orders and do them immediately without question. I’m not saying that everything in life you obey orders immediately, but you have to be able to move quickly, and if you take time to stand up and say, “Oh, I object to that order”, you can be killed, so we’re going to put pressure on you, so you’ll know how to respond to that pressure when you get into the war zone”, and that did something to me. In fact, right after that when we went back to doing the low crawl and we were crawling under the barbed wire, my knees and elbows were being skinned up and I was getting scratched from the barbed wire, there was almost a sense of joy, or delight in here, because I knew it was for a good purpose, and for me, and again, my faith is very important, that relates back to my heavenly father. 9:00 Sometimes we go through things that are very difficult, but they’re really for our own good, and I’ve seen that in my life, so that is one experience that I keep with me. Interviewer: Now, was the company that you were training with, were these all people that were classified as conscientious objectors, or did you just kind of not do the weapons drills that the rest of them did? I believe—this was at Fort Sam Houston, so we were all conscientious objectors at that point in time. Interviewer: What kind—how did they otherwise treat you? You got the drill sergeants and people like that, and at that point did they sort of respect your decision and just treat you like anybody else, or did you have any kind of negativity from, you know, suggesting that you were trying to get out of something? 5 �I think they treated us pretty much the same. I had nothing to compare it with, but it was when I went over to Vietnam and got to Vietnam and someone said, “Well, the gig’s up, you know, you’re here now, so you might as well take a rifle”, and I did, as I said, until I began to examine my own feeling about it. 10:07 Then nine months into it I did, because I knew that I would fight to defend my patients and myself and now I love my country, so I understand it a little bit differently than I did back then, when I was a kid, basically. Interviewer: what kind of people were you training alongside when you were down there? Where were they from and what kinds of backgrounds did they have? All over, all over this region I guess, that’s where we went and I don’t remember the training as much again—some of it’s kind of hazy because of the years. I do remember going off site and ended up going to a church where I got to know some people there, and really enjoyed that. 11:00 About the only other thing I remember very distinctly is standing in formation when we were going to be told where we were going, and I was, quite frankly, hoping to go to someplace where there wasn’t necessarily war. I remember we were all standing in line, and we stood in line as parade rest and when our name was called we had to come to attention. The called my name and said, “Private Hardiman, Southeast Asia”, and there was a lot of concern and weight on my shoulders up to that time, and once they said that I knew where I was going and it was almost like the weight was taken off and I was at attention, I saluted and I said, “Yes sir”, and went back to parade rest and I knew where I was going and the good lord took care of me very well. 12:00 Interviewer: So, that happened after the AIT? 6 �Right, after the training and the time when you get your assignment and we got our assignment, so we were able to come back home and then ship out. Interviewer: Did your AIT go beyond just regular infantry training, and were you now getting more specialized training? Yes, training as a medic—although it wasn’t very appropriate for where I was going. It was training to work in a hospital. We knew how to make those beds real tight and move the bed pans around and all that kind of thing, which—and give shots, and most of that I didn’t use when I was in Vietnam. When I went to Vietnam, if I could talk about that part, and I will say this, I still remember going out and believe it was, I was shipped out, was shipped over to Oakland—we went through Oakland and I remember being on this bus and I believe it was Easter. 13:07 I haven’t checked back on any calendar to see, but I believe it was Easter, it was a Sunday and the bus was going through town and it was going past this church and I saw the people in their Easter clothes with little girls dressed up in their dresses and everything looked very nice. I was yearning to go to church right then, but I was on my way over to a place that I didn’t know if I would come back from. But, I remember that, and then we went to Vietnam. Interviewer: How did they get you to Vietnam? Did you fly or take a ship? I think it was a ship, it was a ship or—I believe it was a ship and then we went up the coast to Chu Lai. 14:00 I remember sleeping out on the beach there the first night we landed and I’m wondering, “Aren’t we out in the open here? I suppose my superiors know what they’re doing, but it seems like we’re vulnerable”. Then we went up to Chu Lai where there was an actual sort of hospital there and a real doctor. Then we were moved out to the line barrier and I can’t remember if it was Duc Pho or Mo Duc, but it 7 �was one of the smaller towns and I was with an artillery unit. I was attached to an infantry unit and we were on a hill, a big gun. When we first landed we were at this hospital, and I remember this incident, there were six medics in this ten—I was one of six medics in this tent, and some had been there for quite some time, I was brand new and they were kind of telling us what would happen and all of a sudden we were hit by mortar attack. 15:06 There was this hill next to us and on the other side of that hill was the ammo dump. Well, I didn’t know much about weapons and warfare, but the Cong , with their mortars, hit the ammo dump and it started to explode and someone said, “Hit the deck”, and they didn’t have to invite me twice, and like all the other folks in the tent, I dropped to the ground and I was so afraid, and the ground was hard, but I felt my fingers, I could almost still feel them, I wanted to dig into the dirt and cover myself up, and I looked up through the opening in the tent and it looked like the fourth of July, because I thought, “Boy these mortars are really incredible”, but actually they had hit the ammo dump and tracers, and whatnot, were just exploding. 16:00 I don’t know how long we were there, but something happened that changed everything. Someone ran by the tent and yelled one word, “Medic”, and every one of those guys jumped up and grabbed their aid bag and ran out to help someone. I had just landed, didn’t know what I was doing, but I thought, “I am not going to shirk my duty, I’m not going to be left here”, so I grabbed my bag and ran out, didn’t know where I was going, and running toward our perimeter just looking for someone to help. I realized something, that courage is not the absence of fear, I don’t think you can be courageous if you don’t fear, it’s overcoming that fear and doing the right thing regardless. I remember running toward the perimeter and this guy was in this foxhole, and he said, “Are you nuts? Get in here”. 17:00 He 8 �didn’t have to invite me twice, I got in the foxhole, but that was my, kind of my initiation and then I was moved out to the line battery where I actually became—everyone called me “doc”, I was the doctor. I wasn’t a medical doctor, but everyone knew that if you get hurt, this is the guy, so I had pretty good treatment while I was out there and I took my responsibility very seriously. Interviewer: Describe the position where you were assigned. What was there and what was the country like around it? We were on a hill with our hooches, huts there, sandbagged, we had sandbags and that’s where we lived. There was a perimeter around the edge of the hill, there were hardened ground walkways to the various sites, mess hall and others, and there was a road that led down to the village below. 18:06 We were, I guess, protecting that village, Vietnamese village, and there were kind of woods and jungle around us. The infantry was there and every once in a while they would have to go out and march down that hill and you never knew who was coming back. Someone had—I love basketball and someone had set up a couple of baskets, and the ground was hard because they had played on it so often. You could actually bounce the ball, it might not come up very straight, but you could bounce the ball. I remember playing basketball and I loved doing it because I actually escaped Vietnam when I did that. I’m very competitive, so I was only on the basketball court, I wasn’t in Vietnam, I wasn’t in the United States, I was just on the basketball court and I wanted to win that game. 19:00 Sometimes the game was interrupted, I remember one time a guy was handling a land mine and he didn’t disconnect it. I don’t know if he was just lazy, or what, and the cry for a medic went out. I ran over and by the time I got over there they were picking up body parts and throwing them on a rubber bag, so I just helped 9 �them do that. Another time we were interrupted and the infantry had to go out and I saw them grab their equipment and didn’t know if they would come back, so it was sort of surreal in that way that all of a sudden you’re playing basketball, you’re only on the basketball court and then immediately you’re brought right back to Vietnam. At times there were firefights, our big guns were there and could shoot quite a distance, and sometimes we’d see over on a distant hill that maybe Charlie was out there, and you’d see these helicopters and it was pretty incredible. 20:07 You would see the copters come out and at night it was almost like a fire show and they would just pepper the area and you could see the tracers and you’d just watch the whole thing. Sometimes the jets would come out and it was incredible because they would go faster than the speed of sound, so they’d come out and they’d swing down and pepper an area and swing back up. The idea was that Charlie would come out once it stopped and all of a sudden they’d come back again and pepper the area again and you could see the tracers. Then sometimes we had to deal with an attack ourselves. Sometimes an attack came from another area and they called it the General scare. The word would get out that the General was coming and we got to fix this place up. 21:00 And I always thought it was kind of--a little strange that we were trying to clean up the dirt and our houses were made of dirt sandbags, but we wanted to clean it up so the General would think it looked nice. We’re in a war, but anyway, I did it because that’s what we were supposed to do. Interviewer: We’re you in the same place for your full tour, or did they move you around? I was in the same place and we were about to be moved when I was leaving. Our unit was going up close to the DMZ, but I think what was very meaningful to me was, as the 10 �“doc” It was—you think of the bartender, I was the guy that people would come and talk to, or I would do things that I had never done before. Like I said, my training was more for a hospital and that’s not where I was. 22:00 When I got there, the medic leaving said, “Well, here’s some more equipment”, and it was a suturing kit and I don’t know where they picked it up and I know someone brought me and I don’t know if it was old, I think it was because I remember, and I sewed people up, you just did what you had to do. I dealt with an ingrown toenail, I had never seen and ingrown toenail before, but I was kind of calm enough to let folks know that I thought I knew what I was doing and could figure something out and do it. There was this 2nd Lieutenant and he was gung ho, like 2nd Lieutenants seem to be, and he came and woke me up in my hut one time and he said, “Doc, get up, get up, I’ve got this cut on my eye, fix me up”, and I said, “Sir, I can call in a chopper and send you back to a real doctor”, and he said, “No, no that, I’ve got to get back to work and my men,”, and I said, “Are you sure?” 23:00 He said, “Yup, yup, just fix me up” so I got out my little suturing kit and I said, “Let me give you a little something to kill the pain”, and he said, “No, no, just sew it up”. I said, “Sir, are you sure?” He said, “Yes, yes, just take care of it”, so I started suturing him up and unfortunately the needles were old and the needle broke. One of them I put a stitch inside and, I said, “Oh, excuse me sir just one moment”, and I went and got another one and took that one out and sewed it up. He came back later on and said, “Hey doc, you did a great job, I don’t even have a scar”, and I said, “Thank you, thank you sir”. It was the kids; I think that I was very impressed with. I love kids, and the kids would come up the road. Interviewer: Vietnamese kids from the village? 11 �They were Vietnamese kids, and I remember that some organization sent us a big box of candy every month. 24:05 They were trying to be nice , but if we ate all that candy our teeth would rot and fall out, so I started going to the gate and giving the kids some candy. The first day there might be three kids there and the second day—they all knew me as “doc”, and there might be six kids there, the third day twelve kids, and the crowd just kept growing and growing. We had our green fatigue jackets and I use to put candy in my pockets and I’d go there. Well, after a while it got so big and I had my aid bag, and I had another bag full of candy and I started going to the other soldiers and said, “Are you going to eat that candy?” “Of course not doc, take it”, so I had tons of candy in the supply and I just started going and befriending the kids and talking to them and giving them candy and after a while I met a couple of kids that I adopted. I didn’t actually adopt them, but they were my kids. 25:03 There was Song and Duc and I loved those two little girls and later a little boy that had been hit by white phosphorous, his name was Mot. I can’t remember his sister’s name, but I have a picture at home. I would start treating his wounds and I almost wanted to adopt him, but I would have had to extend to adopt him and I just felt like, “Okay, if you buy it now that’s okay, there’s nothing you can do, but if I extend and buy it, that’s my fault”, so that’s the way I felt back then, so— but Song and Duc, they were beautiful little girls and I they might have been ten or twelve, but they seemed so little, I use to pick them up and hold them, they just seemed little, and after a while I kind of organized it where the other soldiers sort of adopted kids too. 26:01 We would bring them on the hill sometimes on Saturday and give them candy and just befriend them, and even to the point where one was sick and one of the soldiers woke me up and said, “Doc, you’ve got to come and help my son, my boy”, and 12 �he took me down to the village and I’m walking and, “Does someone have a rifle, or something?” We could be taken out, but we went down and I tried to help his little boy. I ended up sending him to the hospital, but anyway, Song and Duc were two beautiful young kids. I’ve told this story many times to many classes when I speak in schools. Song was rather impetuous, she just did things, but Duc, she could wrap me around her little finger. She would look at me with those pretty eyes and she would say, “Doc, I do what you say”, and I’d say, “I know, and you’re such a good little girl”. Here’s an example, one day I was walking down the hill, going to the village, and on the side of the road there was a house of ill repute. 27:04 I looked over and I saw my two little girls outside, and I said, “Song and Duc, what are you doing over here? You know you shouldn’t be over here, Doc doesn’t like that ”, and they said, “Oh, we no do nothing”, and I walked up to Song and I said, “Song, are you smoking?” she said, “No Doc, I don’t smoke”, and she had her arms behind her back like that with smoke coming up from behind her back, and I said, “Song, you throw that cigarette away, that’s not for you, Doc doesn’t like that”, so she threw it away, but Duc came up to me and she looked at me with her pretty little eyes and she said, “Doc, I no smoke”, and I said, “I know, you’re such a good little girl”. Let’s go back to the candy. I would come down, hand out the candy, but sometimes the crowd got so large that they started to press up against me and try to put their hands in my bag to try to get the candy, so I’d take a handful of candy and throw it on the ground. 28:02 That sounds horrible, but they were almost knocking me over. They would dive on the ground and scratch around in the dirt, the candy was covered with paper, but still—you know—so I could stand up and keep passing out candy. I told my girls, “Listen, you’re Doc’s girls and I don’t want you to scratch around 13 �in the dirt for candy, so if you trust me, and if you wait, I’ll give you the most and I’ll give you the best”. They said, “Okay Doc”, so I did that again and again and one day I saw that Song was excited when the kids would scratch around in the dirt for candy. I’d come out and start passing out candy, first they were okay and after a while the crowd would press up against me and were about to knock me over. I’d put my hand in the bag and throw the candy on the ground and the kids would dive on the ground and get the candy. I’d start passing out candy and Duc would just stand there, she wasn’t even watching, she knew I’d take care of her because I did. Song would too, but she was excited by watching the kids scratch around in the dirt for that candy. 29:04 After three or four days, one day I was passing out candy and after I’d thrown some on the ground and Duc [Song?] saw the kids getting the candy first and she’s look at me, and she’d look at the kids, and she’s look at me and look at the kids, and pretty soon she was rocking, she was trying to decide, and our of the corner of my eye I saw her dive down in the dirt to get that candy. I thought, “Oh, Song, why did you do that?” Afterwards, I wouldn’t give her any more candy because I wanted her to learn a lesson. Duc would come up to me and say, “Doc, I do what you say”, and I said, “I know you do honey, and here’s the most and best”. I’ve told that story so many times to kids, and say, “Wait for the best thing, wait for the right thing”, and I’ve had kids come back to me, even after a couple of years, and remind me of that story, so, that was one of the things I picked up in Vietnam. Interviewer: How regular was it to go into the village and that kind of thing? Did you go down during the day, or whenever you wanted to? 30:00 I usually didn’t go very often, some of the guys did, some of the guys stopped off at the house there, but I didn’t go down very much, usually if there was a reason. If someone 14 �needed my help, or—one time someone was pregnant and I thought, “Wait, this is way outside my understanding”, but any rate we tried to help out where we could. So, once in a while I would go down, but most of the time I was up on the hill. Interviewer: So, most of the stuff with the kids was they would come up to the hill to get the candy? They would come to the hill to get the candy and sometimes I would go down, but just for recreation. Interviewer: Then did any of the Vietnamese civilians come onto the base and do any work for you or anything like that? They did, and I can still remember the barber, the guy that shaved us and cut our hair and I still remember this blade that he had and he’s coming up my neck. I’m thinking, “this really could be a Vietcong and he could just take my life right now”, but he didn’t, thank God. 31:07 What seemed amazing to me was we were there fighting and this war, to me, was different than other wars. In other wars you’re taking territory. What was morbid about Vietnam, because it was the first war that this terrorist thing seemed to enter, was that you couldn’t tell if you were winning the war by taking ground, because you didn’t take ground, so you had to use body count, which was very morbid. The other thing was, you know, who knew who was who. Sometime you’re fighting and if a guy's out there with a rifle you shoot at him. If he puts it down and picks up a hoe you protect him, so who really knew if, these folks that were coming into camp and were shaving us, were Vietcong, or not. 32:05 It wasn’t like the suicide missions of today, because you just wouldn’t allow that, because—but that was the strange part of the war to me. 15 �Interviewer: Now, was the Vietcong active enough in the area to cause any problems in the village, or with the villagers that you were aware of? I think so, I don’t remember all the specifics, but they seemed to be all over. Interviewer: Now, as a medic for the artillery unit, did you look after, to some extent, just the people in the village and the area, and then the men in the unit you were assigned to, would you also help out the infantry if they had patrols and had casualties? Right, any soldier, any armed forces that was there I would look after. I don’t think we had to, but I tried to help the people that were there, because they were people. 33:01 I do remember, after a while, a year seemed like such a long time, I mean, I was a kid and the other guys were kids. I remember there were some nurses from Canada, I don’t know where I saw them, but I just remember listening to them and it was amazing to hear someone, a woman who spoke English, but I mean it was just kind of delightful to get to hear that after a while, and after a while, ten months, eleven months. The other thing was, you didn’t go over to fight with your unit until the war was won, you went over for a year, so people were coming and going all the time, and I think that also was another element with Vietnam that helped to change the nature, there’s something about the camaraderie that you build with the unit. Here the goal was to make it for a year and then you could go home. 34: 04 I’m proud to have served my country. There were some that took off to Canada and didn’t do it, but I was proud to serve my country even in a kind of crazy war like that, but I was anxious to go home. I remember getting stuff in the mail. I think my little sister sent popcorn, or something, which by the time it got there was stale, or dry, but it was really wonderful and I wanted to see my family and I 16 �remember when we got short, our time was short, we carried around this little stick they make over there, it’s called a “short timer's stick” and I remember walking proudly around like the other guy had done when he was short and everyone knew that my time was short. I still remember leaving and when I got down to the place where we were going to fly out from, I remember walking up to the plane and thinking, “Man, I’d hate to get it right now when I’m almost on the plane”. 35:07 It was quite an experience and I learned a lot about life and I served my country. There’s something about being a soldier and I admire those who served their country back then, prior to that, and those who serve their country now, and even in the Michigan Senate, where I served for eight years, we had a Memorial Day service and as veterans we would stand there, everyone would get a flag that was folded if someone from your district gave his life. I’ve had to walk up and put my flag in the basket. It represents a whole life and all the people that know and loved that individual. 36:00 It was a very meaningful time, and then, because I was a veteran, I would stand next to the basket as others came and we would receive those flags. I would stand at attention knowing that hearts were breaking in the people in the audience, because they were seeing the power of that moment, but I realized that I was there to do what’s right, to serve even through difficult times, because we had served in a difficult time in Vietnam and done the right thing, what I felt we were called upon to do and I was still serving and still a soldier trying to do the right thing, even now in life. So that time taught me a lot about life. Interviewer: I want to go back and kind of fill in some of the other pieces of the picture and the experience here. One thing was, you, in a way, were in kind of an unusual situation in that you did stay in the same place the whole time and with the 17 �same unit the whole year. 37:00 You weren’t moving around and that sort of thing, and my impression, just in passing, was that you weren’t taking a whole lot of casualties out of there. Did you get hit by mortars periodically or things like that? Sometimes, yes Interviewer: Were there ever like sappers trying to get into the base, or ground attacks that you can recall? I can remember preparing for some of the things, and I don’t know if I blocked our a few things, but I don’t remember anyone getting into the base. We were pretty well fortified and most of our efforts seemed to be shooting our big guns quite a distance and sending down the infantry that actually fought. I do remember as Tet was beginning, I guess beginning, and the preparation and the tension there rose quite a bit. 38:03 I think that’s why my time to leave seemed to be right in one situation, although, I didn’t want to leave—you hate to leave the people that you care about, including Mot. I asked the medic who was coming in to replace me, “Would you please take care of the boy, I don’t know if he did or not, and I hope he did. Interviewer: You also mentioned, and I was also going to ask you that in part because you were talking about—because everyone was on their own clock, or their own calendar, yo don’t have quite the same kind of camaraderie you do if yo train with people and go over as a unit, but you would have had a certain amount of continuity at least. There are people there alongside for a number of months and you’re not taking large numbers of casualties, which means there is, at least, some room for guys to get oriented and to learn how to do it well, so in a way, that side of the replacement system functions reasonably well. 39:04 18 �Absolutely, there were folks that we obviously got to know, and like I said, I was known as Doc, so people would come to me, not only with their ailments and what not, but with the stories of what was going on in their life and I would talk to them about that. But, I think there’s something to be said that here’s a unit that’s going over to accomplish a purpose and we’re going to stick to it until we accomplish the purpose. We may lose some, but then we’re going to go home together, that part was different. Again, all I’ve experienced is Vietnam. Interviewer: Did you have kind of a daily routine while you were living on the base? Yes, but I can’t remember it very much. I think, mostly, my duty was just taking care of folks and dealing with emergencies as they came up. 40:05 Where a lot of guys had to take turns doing something that I thought was a joke when I first heard it. When I first landed over they said they burned the manure, that’s not what they called it, but anyway, and I thought, “Oh come on, you’re pulling my leg because I’m new”, and then in formation they said they were going to start picking out guys to go and that’s their duty. I think I’d rather have KP, and I remember trying to be rather inconspicuous in the crowd as people actually did that, I thought, “This is crazy”. Of course we didn’t have plumbing over there, so that’s what they did. Interviewer: Pouring Diesel fuel onto barrels of waste and setting fire to it? Right, you had a big pot and the latrines were there and that’s where everything went and you burned it, which I’d never heard of that. 41:00 So, there were various duties and once I went to the line battery I was excluded from all of that, so it was mainly being on hand and working with folks and ready to help. 19 �Interviewer: To a certain extent, your job was mainly waiting for something to happen; they had to generate business for you. Right, and perhaps that’s why I kind of became the counselor and the befriender of the kids and everything else, because we did have free time, but when we got busy, and there were times that things happened, then you were busy. Interviewer: Now, did you get any R&R time during that year? Did you get to go off the base? Actually, I didn’t go off the base during that—I remember some guys were going certain places. 42:02 They were talking about some of the things they liked to do, which some of them I didn’t do because of my beliefs and what not. But, I didn’t really—I don’t think that I ever when off the base, I mean, I went down to the village, but not to another site. Interviewer: Would you ever get sent back to the hospital or anything like that, or just stay at your post? We did travel some, because I remember being in a chopper, I remember traveling down the road in a Jeep, and that’s kind of where I thought through—yes, come to think of it, some of it’s coming back now, and we did travel some and that’s where I really started to think through, because I found myself before, when I wasn’t carrying a firearm, I found myself, and it’s just the way I think, “What am I going to do if this happens, or that happens? If guys get hit, I’m going to grab this gun and protect”. 43:02 Then I thought, “Wait a minute, bill, you kind of answered your own question, you will protect”, so I took, like I said, about nine months into it I took a forty-five, so I could protect my patients and myself. So, we did travel, I do remember traveling on a chopper, I 20 �remember going up and I don’t know if we were heading back to the base, or taking folks somewhere, but I remember looking at the puffs of smoke as Charlie was shooting at us and I remember wanting to move myself around, but where can you go, you know. I thought it would be pretty bad to get hit in the butt while you’re flying up here, but anyway, that’s just what happened. So, yes, I did travel somewhat and come to think of it, I do remember the old Jeep like medic trucks with the big red cross on it. 44:00 Almost like what you see in M.A.S.H., which is kind of amazing that we didn’t change very much, but yes, even as I talk about it, some of that’s coming back to me. Interviewer: So, you might take patients to a hospital or to an aid station, someplace where they brought casualties, and you could help out, so there is some movement back and forth there? Right, yes I did do that, yes and thank you, you’re very good. Interviewer: We do our best. Now, on a different side of things, you played basketball, was there anything else to do for entertainment, or to kill time when there wasn’t much going on? I’m sure there was, I just-Interviewer: Did you guys play cards or that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, so I—yes, I did play cards. I loved playing Tonk and this got me off—this guy just seemed to—he knew right when to come down and I was thrilled if I could beat him just a little, a few games. 45:03 But, so yes, we would do things like that and like I said, there were other activities that some of the guys did. Interviewer: Now you said you got some packages from home once in a while, would you write home regularly, or did they write you, how did that work? 21 �I think I wrote some time and they would write me, my sister and my mom. It’s amazing, I don’t know how healthy some of the things were that had to take that much time to get there, but it tasted good, because it was from home, but yes, and that was very meaningful to get things from other people. I think there was a group that would send cards, or letters out to some of the soldiers, which was also meaningful. Anytime you got anything from home it meant something, whether you knew the person or not, but certainly from those that you know and love. Interviewer: Some of the larger bases, they might actually bring entertainment in of one kind or another, out there, whether it was bands from the Philippines, or USO things. 46:06 Was your base too small for that kind of thing? Yeah, it was too small and most of our visitors were Generals coming through to inspect and then we’d have the General scare, as I called it. Interviewer: Did you have much of a sense of what was actually going on in the war while you were there, or did you just stay focused on your own immediate area? Again, it’s pretty haze because of the years, but I think we had some sense, we’d hear reports, we knew that things were cranking up, Tet, we knew some of the things that were happening up at the DMZ, but that was just—you’d hear from the infantry usually, because they were moving around and come in, so we did have some sense. I don’t have a sense that I was really that well informed, not at all. 47:02 Interviewer: Did you have sources of information beyond just what other soldiers said? I mean, were you reading Stars and Stripes, or was there radio you could listen to? 22 �I think there was, but that’s not what stood out with me over the years. I guess it’s funny, the things that do stand out, or don’t. Interviewer: How would you characterize morale in the unit that you were with, and the attitudes of the guys around you? I think it was pretty decent for the situation that we were in, and obviously some of the folks were very gung hoe like the 2nd Louie, some were doing okay and bidding their time. I think some liked army life, but most folks wanted to get back home to what we call the real world. 48:00 We heard the different songs—I think the one song, I can’t remember the group, but it said, “Give me a ticket on an airplane, ain’t got time to take a fast train”, I mean, that was real big about the time I was getting ready to go back home and I don’t know when it came out. I remember at South High School there were a few folks that were famous, obviously President Ford went there, and Al Green went there about the same time I did. He’s a singer and I remember getting back home later on and he had hit it big. I’d—his brother use to sing in these gospel quartets that I use to sing in, you know, in a group, and I guess he did too early on and then all of a sudden I got back home and I heard his song and someone was giving me a ride, I think he was, and I said, “That’s your song”. “Where have you been?” “Well, I’ve been in Vietnam”, but now it’s being played on popular music, so there are a lot of things you miss. 49:02 Yeah, there is a lot that I missed, obviously. Interviewer: Now, there are stereotype images of Vietnam and what went on in Vietnam and a certain kind of standard list of things, and one is racial tensions and also, issues of drug use, and people going out of the way and behaving badly and trying to get kicked out of the military and a lot of that kind of thing, or even 23 �fragging officers and that sort of stuff. Were you aware of any of that going on around you? Racial tensions, yes—yes, drug use, I was aware more of alcohol use, but I didn’t drink alcohol, so I wasn’t as in tune to all of that, but I think there were some who—I don’t remember any specific situations, but just were misbehaving, because that’s what they did in general. 50:08 Interviewer: Can you talk a little bit about what form racial tensions played themselves out in, or what way you were aware of people’s attitudes, or that kind of thing? I just remember one of the docs, he seemed to be a nice guy , but when he drank a little bit too much he’s start to make some comments toward me. Unfortunate, but that’s what happened, but I figured I got to survive and keep pushing and do what I’m here to do, so I did. Fortunately, I didn’t have to spend my whole year there, it was just initially when I first came in and was at the hospital, or it was at the unit that I was from. Interviewer: But, when you were out there in the field, out on that firebase, did they worry about that kind of stuff? 51:05 I did not notice a whole lot out there. I’m not saying that it didn’t take place at all, but I didn’t pick up on it so much there. I think. From my standpoint, that people were trying to survive and there were some—I remember this African American sergeant who seemed like a real standup guy, a big strong real leader, actually I remember playing basketball with him and he did these behind the back passes, so I think people were there trying to survive at that point in time. Interviewer: That does seem to be a fairly consistent pattern, I mean, the farther away you get from the rear areas and the safe areas, and you’re more out there, you 24 �need each other more than most of the rest of the stuff and you don’t worry about it as much. Absolutely, I think the—I don’t know if people saw color when they saw me, they saw Doc. 52:00 And whether it’s a 2nd Lieutenant waking me up it’s the African American soldier that wakes me up and says, “Hey, my kid is sick, come and help him”, meaning his Vietnamese kid that he adopted. I was just the Doc and I think people saw each other that way a little bit more, again away from the higher ranking superiors. Interviewer: As your time was coming to an end, did anyone make an effort to encourage you to reup and do another tour or anything like that? They may have, but I don’t remember it. I’m a pretty independent thinker, again I thought about just extending this to the adoption, but I decided against it. I do miss—I missed some of those kids after a while, but I’m a single guy and I think I was eighteen when I went over, or nineteen, so what did I know. 53:10 Interviewer: Once your tour was over and they’re sending you back to the states, did you still have time left on your enlistment? I had six months, which I served in Wilmington, Ohio, so it was six hours away from home. I know, because I’d come home as often as I could and I wanted to be home so badly that we had to be there at six o’clock in the morning and try as I might it seemed like I was always leaving around twelve o’clock midnight and driving like crazy to get back in time, but it was just hard to get away from home before that time. 54:00 Interviewer: Now, at the point when your tour ends, your year is up, you get to leave the base and go back home, do you remember anything about that trip, or leaving the base, or crossing the ocean? Did you fly back? 25 �We flew back and I remember, as I said, I was about to get on the plane and take off and I’m thinking, “Boy, I hope I don’t get it here”, because I was just almost in the plane, and then I remember we landed in Washington, I think it was Washington. Interviewer: It might have been because a lot of people landed at the SeattleTacoma. I remember a couple things—we landed and I was so thrilled to be back in the United States of America and I remember that I seemed to love the country more when I came back that I did when I left. 55:01 I think when you give something, just like our families, when you sacrifice and give, it’s just like you loved them more, well, “Where your treasure is, may your heart be also”, so we gave the treasure of risking our lives and our time, but I remember when I landed I wanted so badly to just get out and get down and kiss the ground. I didn’t because I thought certain people would probably be looking, but we were at the airport, but I had this urge to just drop down and kiss the concrete, or something. I didn’t kiss it, but I remember walking in the airport and I saw this young lady with these shoes and the straps came up this high on her ankles and I thought, “Boy the styles have really changed a lot in a year”, but it may have been that it was the west coast and I was from Michigan, but you notice those kind of different things. It’s just, “What a thrill and a joy to be back home”. 56:00 Interviewer: So, there they didn’t have any anti-war protestors around when you got in, or anything like that? I don’t remember them, now I know that it was a very unpopular war and sometimes people took it out— 26 �Interviewer: A lot happened in Oakland and to the people who would fly into Oakland talk about it, but maybe not necessarily up in Washington. I think that I was probably saved from that. Now, I do know that we understood that being Vietnam veterans was not popular, so you just didn’t mention that you served, which is a shame, even if it could be another Vietnam vet. I’ve heard of people working next to each other in a factory with one machine next to the other for ten to twelve years and one not mentioning to the other that they served in Vietnam. I talk about it a lot now, because I just think we ought to honor those who serve even if we don’t like the war. 57:00 But, I do remember experiencing that and seen some of the disdain, but I don’t remember a lot of the protest, personally, I mean, I’ve seen it on TV of course. Interviewer: Now, when they send you out to Wilmington, Ohio what were you doing there? It’s funny, but I remember very little of what I did there. I was at the base and I think there was a medical unit there, or something, and it was pretty boring compared to Vietnam. Mainly, I remember getting off base and coming home, those were my big memories and I remember hardly anything of being there. Interviewer: That’s also a period, I mean this is—you come back in the spring of 1968 and then that middle part of 1968 was a pretty crazy time in this country. Martin Luther King gets killed, Johnson decides he’s not going to run, you get Robert Kennedy getting killed and the election and all the rest of that stuff going on. 58:07 Did you pay much attention to that? Oh yes, and I was very attuned to it, because the riots—I was just trying to understand it all and thinking, “Why are blacks rioting in their own areas?” I mean, if—not that I 27 �wanted them to hurt anyone else, but it just doesn’t seem to make any sense. But, I think the anger; the—sometimes it’s not always logical. I remember the Kennedy’s, I remember thinking that— I mean, I’m a republican now, but I thought Bobby Kennedy was a pretty good guy and thought he might have been a better president than his brother John. 59:10 But, then he was shot too and Ted was left and I didn’t want him to be president, but then that’s just my own opinion. Then, of course, Doctor King and all that went around there. It was an incredible time, just an absolutely incredible time, and that’s probably why just being on the base didn’t’ seem to—I hardly have—I don’t have much memory at all of that. Interviewer: Now, when yo finally do get discharged then, later in 1968, do yo go back home then to Grand Rapids and try to pick up where you left off? Right, right, I remember wanting to get a GTO. 00:06 I remember I sent money home, but I think it was a 1968 and I love white cars, I still buy a white car now, but I remember wanting to get a GTO, Go, and I think when I first got back I got a Mustang to drive back and forth and I couldn’t afford a GTO, so I got a Le Mans, the same body, but it doesn’t have the big engine and what not. But, it had the bucket seats, so that was cool and then just went back to work and eventually went back to school. Interviewer: What kind of job did yo get when you got back? Well, let’s see, I think I worked at Dexter Lock, I think I worked there—I can’t remember if I worked there just when I got back, or if I worked at GM. 1:11 I know I worked at GM when I started school again, and I worked full time and went to school full time. I think I was married by that time and just trying to catch up on life. It was like I had let some time slip away, so it was time to knuckle down, so full time doing both. 28 �Interviewer: Were you able to use GI benefits for tuition and things like that? Yes, yes I was, but that was a little while later, so—that was much later, come to think of it, so I think for a while I just went back to work. Interviewer: So, did you finish up at Junior College first and then go on to Grand Valley, or did you just go to Grand Valley after you started up? 2:00 Actually, it was a while before I went back. I went through a three and a half year marriage and then I married Clova, my wife now of thirty seven years, and she went back to school and got her masters from Western and she really encouraged me. She said, “Bill, you got a lot to offer, you should go back to school”, and then I went back and I just went straight through to get my masters, but that was back in 1973, I think it was, and then I just did two years Junior College, two years, Grand Valley, and I even started at Western before I finished at Grand Valley. I was just determined, I was going to go full time whether I’m working or not, and get the degree. Interviewer: And once you got the degrees what kind of job were you looking for? Well, my undergrad degree was in behavioral science and public administration and my master’s in public administration, so I wanted something in that arena. 3:03 I got a job working for Kent County Community Health and that kind of started that part of my public service career and later on, some years after that, I didn’t know when I was going for my degree that I’d get in elective office, but we got involved with that in the 80’s. Interviewer: Where did you start, was it sort of city council or Mayor of Kentwood at one point, what’s the sequence there? This was much later; this was in around '80 for me after doing some other things I began to pray and think about, “What am I here for? What do I need to accomplish?” This was 29 �a big issue for me and I think we’re all here for a purpose. 4:02 I felt like some area of public service was mine, so I just wrote the Mayor of Kentwood, we lived in Kentwood at the time, and said, “I’d like to serve anywhere you think I could be helpful”, and he appointed me to the Parks and Recreation Commission and I served there for a little while, two and a half years, then I went on the Board of Appeals and did that for about a year and a half and then I was City Commissioner, which is elective, for about five to five and a half years, but eleven years in those before going to serve as Mayor for ten years and then in the Michigan State Senate for eight years. Interviewer: Alright, and then you did run for congress this past year and lost in the primary at that point. Do you have regular work now, or what are you doing? Well, now we’re involved in the—I do some speaking; I’m going to do some teaching at Community College. 5:02 We’re talking about doing some public policy work, which could be starting in a few weeks as well, so a variety of things, but I’m still involved in public policy and staying close to, and involved in public service, so I will continue to do that for a while, but I’ve always enjoyed and felt like part of what I do is speak on issues I’m passionate about and upstart organization. On marriage, we pushed mentoring, so I enjoy speaking about that as well as veterans’ issues as well. Interviewer: Well, you’ve got a pretty consistent record here that seems to go back to your time in the service and that is you’re dedicated to public service and trying to help the people around you and that seems to be a pretty consistent pattern. 6:00 Aside from kind helping develop that commitment, what do you think the effect of your military service was on you? 30 �I think it taught me real lessons about discipline. I remember seeing some folks there that just couldn’t take orders. I don’t mean that you do everything blindly, but as I said, the sergeants were teaching us you can’t get up and argue about everything. I saw some that had a pretty brutal time because they just weren’t disciplined. It taught me about perseverance, as I said, “I feel like I’m still a soldier”. Sometimes you just have to set your jaw and even though it’s painful, it may be painful to watch what’s going on, to watch those flags go in the basket, because you know what they represent, but you’ve got to continue to fight for this country. 7:00 I feel like, in my own way, that’s what I’m doing. Interviewer: Alright, and thank you for a good story and thank you for taking the time to tell it to me. Thank you very much, I’ve enjoyed being interviewed. 31 �32 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hardiman, Bill (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hardiman, Bill Description An account of the resource Bill Hardiman was born in 1947 in Pontiac, Michigan, and grew up in Grand Rapids. After graduating from high school, Hardiman briefly attended Grand Rapids Junior College, then left school and received his draft notice in 1966. Through efforts made by his church, Hardiman received the label of "conscientious objector", so when he reported in 1966, the Army sent Hardiman to Fort Sam Houston in Texas for both his basic training and advanced training to be a medic. Once Hardiman finished at Fort Sam Houston, he deployed to Vietnam, where he received an assignment to an artillery section stationed on a hilltop firebase near the city of Chu Lai. While on the firebase, Hardiman not only treated the wounded in his artillery section, but also wounded soldiers in the infantry unit also stationed on the firebase, as well as Vietnamese civilians living in a village at the base of the hill the firebase was on. Once his tour in Vietnam ended, Hardiman returned to the United States and finished his enlistment, finally leaving the military in 1968. He eventually returned to college and went on to an extended career in public service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-05-11 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HardimanB1108V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5abf903a7f1ecd909bafc04100acadaa.jpg b30667fd662d7d0556106977331eaa0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HardimanClyde_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1998 Title A name given to the resource Hardiman, Clyde Description An account of the resource Clyde Hardiman, Senator Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1998s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ca262537132690805df36f7d481fdbd7.jpg 9c3357092c04313bbf41fdca42a09a1a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HardimanClyde_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Hardiman, Clyde Description An account of the resource Clyde Hardiman, Senator Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8af73223137bc8a1e81e90156322d853.jpg 33a48b747b68eb1b5258ef670db6d096 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HardimanClyde_Photo03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Hardiman, Clyde Description An account of the resource Clyde Hardiman, Senator Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47fe7fdf292e353ddcbabe52c287302b.mp4 5f864bcd72d94ed3fb94b512ab9fd369 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e307c6a112971b1d96799f7ca6d07e42.pdf 179d9a98f3272e803d66d7f667cefb7a PDF Text Text We are talking today with Mr. Harold Harig of Wyoming, Michigan. The  interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s  History Project. Now, Mr. Harig ,can you begin by telling us a little bit about  yourself? Just start with where and when you were born. (00:03:21)  Well, I don’t remember when I was born, but shortly after, maybe a couple years…   But what year were you born?(00:31:18)  1925. November 10, 1925.  And where were you born? (00:39:06)  At Northdoor.  What did your family do? Were they farmers or something else? (00:43:12)  Well, my father started farming, and then he went to Grand Rapids American Box to  work. After several years at the Box Store, he started working at Spartan Stores.  That’s where he spent the rest of his life until he retired.  Was he able to keep his jobs through the depression? Did he always have  work? (01:15)  Yes, at the box store, but they worked just a few days a week, just enough to put  food on the table.  How many kids were in your family? (01:25)  Six. Gotta stop and think.  Did you finish high school? (01:37)  No, I didn’t.  Did you finish eighth grade or how long? (01:41)  I took several courses where I worked and just basically that is all I wanted to do.  Where did you work then, before the war? (01:56)  In Grandville. Which, at the time was Winters Crampton. And then they changed the  name to Jervis, and the last time, when I retired, it was Alloy Tech.  When did you start working, then? (02:13)  I worked there probably four or five months, before I went into the service, where I  joined the Navy.  What did you do before that? (02:26)  I worked in a grocery store.  �Do you remember hearing about Pearl Harbor? (02:34)  Oh I sure do.  Can you tell me about that? (02:40)  It was on a Sunday afternoon when we heard it. It was kind of a big surprise to us.  We couldn’t believe it to begin with. We knew it was something we were going to  have a problem with.  So at that point, you were sixteen then? 1941? (03:05)  Fifteen.  Did you expect you would end up in the war yourself? (03:14)  Well, I tell you, our family was more or less a military family. If we were called, we  went. Not only us, but our father and his father. Most of them served one way or  another. My father served. He was in World War I. That’s about all, you know. I  worked awhile before I joined the service.  What motivated you to enlist? (03:59)  Patrioty I guess. I wanted to do something for my country.  So you didn’t want to wait to be drafted, you just went ahead and signed up.  (04:15)  In fact, all the kids around there my age, every one of them joined. And most of them  joined with me. They were farm boys, out in the country, and most of them joined  the Navy.  Why did you join the Navy? (04:32)  Well, I like the water for one thing. We always went swimming. A lot of times, all we  had was a creek, but we damned it up a little bit and swam in it. Now I don’t think  any kid would do that anymore.  Well, we don’t know what’s in that water anymore. Had you ever been out on  Lake Michigan in a boat or anything like that? (05:01)  Oh, definitely. In fact, up until probably five years ago, I used to go out there fishing.  Before you joined the Navy, had you been out on Lake Michigan in a boat?  (05:24)  No. In fact, I didn’t even know where it was. Because we didn’t have much except  work.  When did you enlist? (05:41)  �1944.  Your service record shows that you enlisted, I think, in ’43. (05:53)  Well, that’s why I brought my book along. Because for me to remember things  anymore, that’s long ago. 65 years!  After you enlisted, where did they send you then for training? (06:11)  Farragut, Idaho.  How did you get out there? (06:22)  I think we went by train that time. First, I went to Detroit for examining. Then, from  there we got the train and went to Farragut, Idaho.  Alright. Now, what do you remember about Farragut, Idaho? (6:46)  Some things not too good because the first thing I contracted this Rocky Mountain  spotted fever. And I was laid in the hospital for days, a base hospital. When I got out,  I was on kind of limited duty. All the guys I went with, they were way ahead of me.  So I had a whole new outlook as far as training goes. But it was a good camp at that  time. I enjoyed being there.  Was it a very big place? Were there a lot of people there? (07:26)  It was a pretty good‐sized camp. To know how many people were there, I couldn’t  tell you. They closed it up, I think, before the war was over. They closed it up  because there was a lot of sickness out there with this Rocky Mountain spotted  fever. A lot of men died there.  Was there a town nearby of any size? (08:02)  Sand Point, Idaho. But that was just a little rural town then.  Why were they having a naval station in Farragut, Idaho? (08:16)  Well, I never did figure that out because everyone else went to the Great Lakes.  Then, I would have seen Lake Michigan! But where I was, I still hadn’t seen Lake  Michigan!  What kind of training did they give you? What did you do there? (08:34)  Basically just general training. How to sweep decks and mop decks and paint guns  and things like that. Basically physical fitness, you know, how to take care of  yourself. Everything like that.  How much discipline was there? Learning to follow orders? (09:04)  It was a very disciplinarian camp. It was very disciplined.   �Did you adjust well to that? (09:16)  Yes, a lot of people didn’t because these kids that come from Chicago, New York,  places like that, they didn’t adjust to well. But for us, it was just another day at home  because you worked jobs.  How long did they keep you there in Idaho? (09:41)  Pretty close to two months, I think.  Where did you go from there? (09:52)  Tacoma, Washington.  Why did you go to Tacoma, what was there? (09:58)  Well, that was a military instillation there. Navy, Army, everything. That was one of  the reasons I guess that’s why I was sent there.  Did you get more training there? (10:12)  Yes, we did. We had a lot of gunnery practice on gunnery ranges. We went out  almost daily checking the gun ranges and learning how to use the weapons, things  like that.  Did you do target practice with area targets or were you just shooting at things  that were on the ground? (10:33)  We did area targets, we did plain targets from pulling these sleeves, so we called  them at that time. They would pull the sleeves and we would shoot at the sleeves,  hopefully missing the plank.  Did you do well at that? Could you hit the sleeve? (11:00)  Yes, I think we did pretty good because when I got on the ship I was  Director/Operator, operating twin 40 mm guns. So, I guess I must have done pretty  good.  Do you remember how long you were in Tacoma? (11:28)  Probably a month or two.  Were you there until about April of ’44? (11:37)  Yes.  Once you finished in Tacoma, were you put on a ship at that point? (11:45)  Yeah, went to Vancouver, Astoria and that area. It was just a commission.  What was the name of the ship? (12:01)  �USS Shamrock Bay.  What kind of ship was it? (12:06)  AV Flat top we called it. See, during that time, our big carriers were getting hit pretty  hard. They had to have more carriers but they didn’t know how to have more  carriers without converting some of these merchant ships to aircraft carriers. At the  time we got on there, the first thing we heard was Kaiser coffins. It really never  happened that way unless they got hit by a kamikaze or a torpedo from a submarine.  But they was basically a decent ship.  Basically you were on an escort carrier. About how big was it? (12:56)  It was around…I can’t really tell you the size of it. I know I got it in those books I got,  but I can’t tell you offhand. All I know is it was a baby flat top. It was probably in the  neighborhood of six hundred feet or more.  They were not as long as the full­sized ones? (13:33)  No.  How many planes would you carry? (13:37)  I think we had about thirty planes. We had torpedo bombers and fighter planes.  Do you remember going out on the water the first time? (13:49)  We did a shake down cruise on the ship to make sure the ship was operating  decently so everything seemed to go pretty good from there on. We were on our  way.  Where did you take the shake down cruise? Did you go from Tacoma  somewhere else, or did you just come back to Tacoma again? (14:13)  I came back, but I think I had to take the train or rode a bus back to Tacoma. I think  the ship was in Astoria.  So it was just a short trip around the Pacific coast? (14:37)  Yes.  Did you get to go on leave or go home before you went overseas or did you just  stay out there? (14:42)  No, I did when we got back to the States maybe a year or year and a half later I got  home on a short leave. The doggone ship was in dry dock there, having it sprayed  and repainted. So I was able to go home for a little while. The rest of the time you  spent on the ship, scraping. That was normal procedure anyway. Everyday when  you weren’t manning a gun or target practice or anything, to scrape the guns. Clean  them and take them out. When you got in the war zone, that all ended.  �Tell us a little bit about going out to sea for the first time. Did you have any  problems getting sea sick? (15:53)  No. A lot of them did. We had a couple of them that as soon as the ship started  moving they were sick. They couldn’t stand sea duty, so they were taken off the ship  because it was just too much. There was a lot to learn when you got on the ship. You  still had thieves and everything else on‐ship. One guy got up in the morning and felt  his back pants pocket. The doggone wallet was gone. Somebody cut halfway around  it during the night and stole his wallet. This was when were out at sea, what was a  guy going to do with the money? He got the money. I guess there was a little  gambling going on. I never participated in it, but some of these guys knew  everything about gambling, but not me.  Those were the guys from New York and Chicago? (17:06)  Chicago mostly. New York, Chicago. There was not too much Detroit then. But those  guys from Chicago and New York, those guys were ruthless. They were really bad.  Especially for me being a little hick. You didn’t know anything. You just did not grow  up that way. You listened to your parents. And I don’t think half of those guys from  New York had parents, or who they were. But it was different.   Once you go out on your first real cruise, you leave Tacoma. Where did you go  on your first trip? Around the Atlantic? (18:01)  We went basically right out to the warzone, from what I remember. That’s where we  were for a period of time.   Your carrier makes your first trip; you go through the Panama Canal. Do you  remember that? (18:25)  That I do remember, we went through that twice. It was quite an exciting thing to  see…how it was built, how they maintained it, how they could lower the ship, drop it  down. I never saw that again until we went to the Upper Peninsula and saw it up at  Sault Ste. Marie. Saw how the locks worked. There were more locks at the Panama  Canal than there were at Sault Ste. Marie.  So basically, you go through the Panama Canal, you go into the Caribbean. Do  you remember sailing in the Caribbean? (19:28)  No, we went up to Norfolk, Virginia. Then we went to New York, up to New York for  a day or two, which was long enough for me.  And from there we went to  Casablanca.   Now did you sail with a convoy to go to Casablanca? (19:56)  Well, no, we with were merchant ships and, oh there was a couple other carriers  with us. We were basically sub patrol. Course the Germans, that’s the only thing they  had going anymore, was the submarine, so that was kind of a hairy thing times two  when you’d get these beeps, and a submarine. Course we had destroyers that were  �along that carried the Depth Charges, and a lot of time they did throw out Depth  Charges. You really don’t know if hit a ship or a submarine or not, but it sure would  make a lot of water go up in they air when they would do that.  So did they attack submarines several different times on that trip? Did they  have many encounters with submarines?  (21:07)  Well, we had more in the Pacific than we did in the Atlantic. I think in the two trips  we made, they only had it three, four times at the most.  And then they didn’t know if  they were near or real or whether there were just a few whales down there  somewhere. They were picking them up, so I don’t know.  So you don’t even know for sure if there were any submarines there? So you  didn’t see any yourself or anything like that? (21:45)  No. Well, if there were whales, there probably weren’t no whales anymore.   Now, when you got to North Africa did you just stay on the ship and turn  around and come back? (21:59)  Yes, we were there probably a couple days. A lot of guys learned lessons there  because one of the first things that would happen. They would get about twenty  dollars for what we called, I don’t know if I should say this or not, they were “fart  sheets.” Anyway, these guys would take those off ship, they’d wrap them around  their waist, then take them off and sell them for twenty dollars. ‘Cause these women,  they all wore these things, ya know, over there. Sometimes, by the time they got  done with giving the person the thing, the sheet, that they had wrapped around their  waist, course they had to take some clothes off to do that. When they took the  clothes off, they’d have some Arab over there, would hold his clothes. So you know  how the guy wound up, he didn’t have any clothes when he got back to the ship. So  he was walkin’ around tryin’ to hide, around buildings, and everything like that.  Course, we always had shore patrol whenever we got into a port. We tried to get our  own people, course I was on shore patrol part time, and you try to get ‘em back on  the ship before the local people would get ahold of them. If they were kinda  inebriated and so on and so forth, so, that’s about it.  So then after, so you make two trips across the Atlantic, and at that point, your  ship is transferred over to Pacific theater.  And when you go on the Pacific,  where did you go? (24:02)  Oh, I don’t remember. Philippines, I guess. Down there.  In the unit history you’ve got, it says you went to Luzon, the northern island in  the Philippines, and you were in the Surigao Strait and you went to Lingayen  Gulf, which is one of the places where we made a landing. Now, when you got  to the Philippines, did you encounter Japanese aircraft or submarines at that  point? (24:23)  �Yes. Not a lot of them at that point, but they were there. Course our ships were more  or less starting to build up now where they could handle themselves without. And at  first, we did not see or hear anything about kamikazes.  I mean it was just dog fights  up in the air. We’d sit there below and watch the planes above trying to knock one  another down.  It was sort of just, you know, you couldn’t believe what was  happening. A little later on, we never had much trouble with them, until the  kamikazes came. That’s when we were, I know we used to shoot at them ya know,  when they would start coming in. Course they would tell us when to start firing, and  when to cease, because sometimes we didn’t get cease firing in time. It was an awful,  harried experience because some of these bullets would get into the other ships I  know they did, ‘cause we saw where, before they got stopped, bullets that they  would be shooting at the planes would be headed toward other ships. You don’t  know just…what happened. We did have the order to cease fire.  Ya know, we had  the gunnery officer up on the bridge. He would notify us to cease fire, that’s about all  we could do. Just quit firing and hope that the ship, well we had them coming within  five inch gun shoot, we’d knock one down. But as far as we were concerned, we shot  at different kamikazes because they’d be headed for your ship and all of a sudden  make a sharp turn toward another ship that was not too much of a danger to them I  would say. So, it did, it was something to look at those sights, and have those  airplanes come toward you and then veer off.  Now did most of them get shot down before they hit ships, or what happened?  (27:35)  They did hit ships. They hit ships. In fact, one of the destroyers that a friend of mine  was on got hit. He was up on the bridge, a lookout, and he got killed. a kamikaze hit  the bridge. They usually try to avoid the destroyers because they were guarding us.  They were keeping us supposedly safe, but it didn’t always work. Some of these Japs,  I think what they were doing then was, if it was getting awful hot for them, and they  were gonna get shot down, they were gonna go to the closest ship they could find.  And that’s what would happen.   As far as you could tell, did they have priorities in terms of what they wanted  to hit? Did they go after tankers first, or aircraft carriers? (28:31)  You mean the Japs?  Yes. (28:40)  Yes, they hit aircraft carriers.  But did the kamikazes have preferred targets, were there certain ships?  (28:43)  The kamikazes, the aircraft carriers were the prime target.  Did your ship ever get hit? (28:56)  �No, we were very fortunate. We had them hit all around us, but we were, like they  used to say, the captain of our ship: “The luck of the Irish.” That’s one of the things  he always said. Either they would vear off, or get shot down before they got to us,  and then, well like up at Iwo Jima, we were out about fifty miles from shore, and our  planes, see, were going in then. We didn’t, we were out, and the battleships were in  close, and the cruisers, things like that. Well, they tried to keep us kind of segregated  so that our planes could do the dirty work and we could sit back and watch the  circus, so to speak.  So if were a little farther away from the island and away from the rest of the  fleet, then maybe the kamikazes or whatever wouldn’t find you? (30:02)  What was that?  Well, if your escort carriers were away from the rest of the fleet, it might have  been harder for the kamikazes to find you, or they’d all go to the main fleet  and, or did you get attacked when you were off of Iwo Jima, or was that quiet  for you? (30:11)  No, we had no problems at Iwo Jima, and uh, it was, uh, like I said, we were out far  enough, there were Japanese ships around there, but they didn’t bother us too much  at Iwo Jima.  Now, you also went to Okinawa, then, after that. Can you describe that?  (30:48)  It was a little rough. I mean, we were lucky, like I said, we were lucky with not  getting hit by ‘em, ‘cause if you got hit, you know what was gonna happen. I mean  with all the gasoline on board for the planes, and they would try to come down right  on the deck, see that was all the wood, and they were usually loaded with gasoline,  so that would start a big fire, so, you know it was, I don’t know. A lot of things that  are hard to explain, or even remember.  Do you remember seeing any other carriers get hit? (31:41)  Yes.  And what would happen if a carrier got hit? (31:47)  It would blow up. Not completely, but they were out of commission. In fact, in my  books, those two books I got, it tells you about some of ‘em were put out of  commission, we would have to take on their planes. And some of it was after…we  used to always have the biggest problem before dark at night, that’s when it seemed  to be the worst for us.  And, after dark, we had to take on several other planes from  two other carriers that got hit. And doing that, well the captain was trying to save  our ship, and save the men in their planes. So what he would do was, we had to turn  on landing lights on the side of the ships for the planes to land, and then the deck  and hanger deck got so full of planes, we had to push a few of them over board, that  �one night. Just for the night, that happened, where we had to…I think there were  seven or eight planes that they pushed overboard once the pilots got on ship.  Because they were trying to save the pilots, that was a very important thing. So,  other than that, yeah, we did take on several other planes from other big ships.    Did you also ever fish men out of the water, did you rescue sailors or crewmen  who went in the water? (33:25)  Oh you mean the men that were in the water? No, they usually had destroyers doing  that. And they could run right up there, they were fast, and no, we never picked  up…we probably picked up three, four of our own pilots when their catapult didn’t  work. They caught the tail end of the fifth ship into the water and, uh, we’d have to  pick them up, but other than that, no. Most of the time the catapult worked pretty  good.  Did you have other accidents, would planes crash on the deck, or…? (34:14)  Oh, yes, yes. A lot of times, if they, they’d come in and they’d have a wheel off, or a  drop off a propeller, would hit the deck. Yes, we had quite a few accidents; they were  always putting in new deck plank, ya know, because it’d get chewed up from planes  landing. And yeah, every once in a while, they’d come in, you knew there would be  problems before they landed because they were probably hit from Japanese ships,  and they were limping in, so to speak. Most of the time, the pilots were saved, we did  lose a few of ‘em in combat, aerial flights, ya know. I think it was only four or five or  something like that we lost.  You mentioned earlier that you did have some contact with Japanese  submarines? (35:31)  Oh yes, ya know, this was something that every once in a while it was like in the  Atlantic. We would, uh, have general quarters and submarines. And the Japanese, to  them, we’d have two, three doggone destroyers. They’d be right there and they’d be  dropping ash cans and it wouldn’t be long, you’d see this stuff fly up in the air, they  figured they’d got some since they’d seen oil slick. So, ya know, I don’t think the  Japanese had too much left in anything once we got done. The way it appeared to  me. Now, in Okinawa, after that was all settled, we could watch ‘em from the ship  because we were anchored in the bay so we could watch the marines and soldiers  on the high hills, I called ‘em hills, they were small mountains, with flame throwers.  All they were doin’ was goin to all these little holes and that in the side of the  mountain, and they were shootin down planes. Aboard ship, we had a problem then  that we had to use our regular rifles to shoot anything that was floatin in the water  or comin toward the ship because it could have been a Jap with explosives. We  would be shootin’ at anything—a box, a crate—anything at all that would be in the  water. We would see it, we would have to shoot at it, make sure if there was a man  there, he wasn’t going to be anymore.  Were there problems with Japanese mines as well, mines floating in the  water? (37:50)  �There were some, but we never had a lot. See, they had minesweepers whenever we  went in close to the borders. They always had minesweepers clearing that. A lot of  times, we did get supplies there in the Phillipines, and supplies, ammunition, bombs  and stuff like that that we had to put down in the holes. And sometimes, as far as  refueling we did that right at sea. You had a gun‐that was part of our job too as  gunners‐they’d put a rod, a brass rod, down into the barrel with a doggone line into  it, I called it chalk line but it was thicker than that. And then you’d shoot that over to  the oil tanker and they’d pull that across and they’d pull the line. Finally, that would  hook up to fuel the ship. Refueling at sea is all it was.  While you were out on these trips, did you ever encounter really bad weather?   (39:23)  Bad weather, gee! You ought to see that one picture where our ship or one of our  ships, you don’t see the front of it at all, it’s under the water, and finally they come  back up again. As far as eating, no, that’s out. You wouldn’t have a cup of coffee for  anything because it wouldn’t be with you two seconds. Either you’d try to put it in  your mouth, or it was flying away from you. We were in two typhoons.  When you were in those typhoons were you in port or at sea? (40:14)  We were out at sea, way out. And the weather report would tell us that we’re gonna  be in a typhoon. And that really, it was really rough on ships. The bow of our ship,  the aircrafter, the top of it backed right up on one of them. Course, right away after it  was over, the men were up there straightening it out, torching it. We carried a lot of  supplies on ship, like lumber for the deck, and metal, and a lot of airplane parts. And  another thing, they put all the airplanes down below on the hangar deck when the  weather would get like that, and they’d drop the elevators. The one time, I don’t  know why, but I was in my bunk, and so was probably twenty other guys in that  compartment that we were in. When we hit one of those, it just went right under  and the water all came down from the elevator shaft on to the hangar deck and one  guy hollered, I shouldn’t swear, but, “the son‐of‐a‐bitch is sinking,” he says, and we  all went for top side right now. If we’re gonna die, it’s not gonna be down in the hole,  but that was, that only happened once, and that was when they were calling ‘em  Kaiser coffins. And boy, it didn’t take long to get up on deck, let me tell you.  Were you ever manning a gun position during one of these storms? (42:27)  No, it was pretty quiet, yeah. No, in fact most of the guys were, if you were up on  deck like that, you were tied to something, you know, you didn’t just stand around  and wait to get swept overboard.  Now, when you’re out in the Pacific, you mentioned that you did shore patrol  in a few places. Did you do shore patrol out in the Pacific? (42:57)  No, the only place I did shore patrol was Panama and over in the Middle East.  Otherwise, no, when we got ashore anywhere, we had duty aboard ship. Especially  out in the Pacific, any place we were anchored, they didn’t have too much trouble  �with shore patrol there. It was once we got back to the States, and then when we got  to the States, no, the majority of us were able to get off‐ship and go home, or do  something other than that. They had their own shore patrol and the Army had their  men out there and the Marines. Course, the big thing then, was, for the shore patrol  and those people, was watchin the bars, ‘cause that’s where 99% of the guys went.  Found the first bar, and that’s where they stayed ‘til they were inebriated and got  back into the Jeep to go back to the ship or get into trouble, wind up in a great brig.   Now, when you were on the ship, what were the living conditions like on an  escort carrier? What was the food like, or accommodations? (44:36)  Ah. You didn’t have air conditioning then. The only thing you…sometimes, as soon as  the sun would go down, you’d be up top side, catching some of that breeze. a lot of  days, you had to stay top side because of your duty, gun duty or whatever, so, but  you did, we would be relieved…if things looked pretty normal, then we pretty much  took it easy, other than keeping things clean and things like that. Otherwise it was  just part of your life.  Did they provide any kind of things for you to do when you were off­duty? Did  they have movies on the ship or anything like that? (45:42)  Well, yes, after the war was winding down good, they had some netting put up for  baseball or softball up on the flight deck. Course, guys that could really hit a ball, it’d  go over that net and into the ocean, and then start with another ball. And, of course,  they did have some basketball on the hangar deck, and some guys would play  basketball, things like that. Other than that, you mostly just pass the day by. We had  one group, and they were from down south, but they used to make moonshine.  There was a little of that made aboard ship, too.  Did you know what they made it out of? (46:50)  No, I really didn’t know. I imagine, I don’t know where they got the stuff, but some of  them were cooks and worked in places like that. but, I know that one group made  some one time and they had them in these 40 mm gun cases, and I guess it blew up,  and, boy, it didn’t go too good around there for a while, ‘cause it was sticky, I guess,  and smelly.   Yeah, they would have used sugar, probably, things with sugar in it. (47:28)  Yeah, they were using all the things that they could get down on the commissary on  the ship, but it was just, I think it was four of them, that were from Alabama, or some  place down there. In fact, when they went ashore, if it was like in Norfolk, they’d  come back with they had cork cans. Clear, cork canning cans, jars. White lightning,  that’s what it was.  In general, how good was the discipline on ship? (48:12)  �Te discipline was quite good. Course you’d always get these guys that wanted to do  something that shouldn’t be done, like gambling—they wasn’t supposed to be  gamblin’ either. Well, ya know, they just couldn’t stop all of ‘em. Some of them would  be on the look out and they’d be gambling and: “hey, officer‐of‐the‐day is comin’”  boy, everyone would be goin, “hi, Sergeant” or whatever it was, commissions officer.  “How you guys doin’.” Course they knew what you were doin.’ They didn’t want to  get involved, ‘cause if they saw you and you were gamblin’, they’d have to do  something about it, ya know. We did have a brig aboard ship, we had a place where,  if they got unruly, they could put ‘em in a brig. And we did have a marine  attachment‐I think there were four of them on our ship‐ that would have been their  job to keep these guys in a brig. Other than that, things were just normal. And I  guess that was a time that I didn’t regret I guess, but I wouldn’t do it again. I would  have never done it again, unless I was called, ya know.  Were you able to keep up with the news of the war, the progress of the war  while you were on ship? (50:00)  No, you know, I’ve told my wife different times…it wouldn’t have been hard to make  a diary, a daily diary of what you did that day and what happened. It would have  been easy to do, but I don’t think anybody ever did it. At least none that I knew of.  You know, you could have taken a little notebook and wrote down everything that  you did that day, what happened that day, and it would have meant a lot to me now,  but then, you know, you don’t think of those things.  Were you able to get any news or information from the outside? (50:55)  Tokyo Rose. We used to get her news almost every day. But yeah, we pretty much  got our news, we got our movies, and, ‘course Porky the Pig and stuff like that.  That’s what the guys were waiting for to watch, what did they call that…and then  they’d have a movie go on, and the ships would change movies. From one ship to  another, they’d come up and then switch the movies. Usually a destroyer would do  that, and then they could come pretty close to the ship, and that’s if the weather  conditions…if the water was smooth and everything. So we were kept pretty much  in the movies and ya know, up to date movies, too.  Do you remember where you were when the war ended, when the Japanese  surrendered? (52:12)  I think I was out to sea, I’m almost certain. Okinawa or someplace. Then from there,  we went right into Tokyo and you can’t believe what that looked like. It was a mess.  Everything was black. Once in a while you’d see a building. And, like everything else,  we were treated royally over there. They would bomb ‘em all the time. I don’t know,  it was just one of those things that we got involved in. By their doings, by the  Japanese doings, they got us into it.  Were you surprised when you got to Japan that the people treated you as well  as they did? (53:25)  �No, I kinda figured they’d be that way. They were bowing and stuff, as far as I’m  concerned, too much, ya know? There was too much of it. They could have went  about their business and we were more and less sight‐seers. They did, they bent  over backwards for us. ‘Course, there was no drinks or anything to speak of there, as  far as these guys goin’ ashore and getting snockered or none of that. But it wasn’t  bad, it was…yes as far as the damage that was done, it was, I don’t know,  catastrophic. Just, bad. Like, now with all these weapons they have, you hate to think  what would happen if the war started again, and it should never happen.   Now, where did you go in Japan? You went to Yokohama and then did you go  down to Hiroshima or Tokyo? (54:44)  Yeah, Hiroshima, and I tell ya everybody was so bad, a lot of people don’t see it that  way nowadays, but when we were over there, they didn’t bother us at all. I don’t  know if anybody was bothered over there, any of the men that were there. Because  we knew what it was. It was bad for us, but they had a warning, they had a time and  knew what was going to happen if they didn’t surrender, but they didn’t do it right  away, I guess it took two of them to do it.  Did you hear about the bombs themselves, after they were dropped? Was that  part of the news or the information?  (55:47)  Later, yes, we heard it. We didn’t have any idea how damaging they were. We had no  idea. But, we knew it was bad because when they surrendered then, we just heard  over the news that the war was over right now.  What happened on your ship when you heard the war was over? (56:20)  If we could have had a beer, we would have had a beer. They had it aboard ship, but  we were not allowed to have it unless we got to some island and then, you got off‐ ship and you were allowed to warm beers, because there was no such thing as cold  beer then. So then, you’d go ashore, get two warm beers, and go back aboard ship.  Now, once the war is over, you’ve been to Japan, and they ship you back  home…do you remember when you got back to the States? Was it early ’46 or  still ’45? (57:05)  January 24, 1946…something like that. We wound up in Boston, that’s where our  ship was decommissioned. That’s when I was able to get off and go home for a  couple weeks and then I went out to Tacoma, Washington, and married my wife. So  that’s our story.  Once the war was over, what did you do? (57:47)  I came home, I went to work right away because I had seniority rights. All the  service men had seniority rights so I just thought I better get back to work and see  what happens, so I went back to work and things were pretty good for us ever since.  �We never had a lot of problems or anything; it just went back to normal everything I  guess.  To look back on the whole thing now, how do you think that your time in the  service wound up affecting you? Were you a different person when you got out  than when you went in? (58:23)  I don’t think so, I don’t think I was. No, I went back to livin’ just the way we lived  before I went in the service. No, it didn’t bother me really too much. I guess it was,  just the thought of it was something that you had to do and now it’s over so you  were back home again.   Well, thank you very much for coming and telling us about it. You made it a  whole hour, so I guess you had something to say after all.  (58:57)  Oh boy, I don’t know.   (59:08)        � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Harig, Harold (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Harig, Harold Description An account of the resource Harold Harig served in the US Navy from 1943 to 1946. He trained as an anti-aircraft gunner and served aboard the escort carrier USS Shamrock Bay. He sailed on convoy escort duty to North Africa, and later served in the Pacific in the Philippines, Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns, and was later based in Japan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarigH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/277f11f2e0d440743bf6d563aea435c6.jpg a982d33f46781c3dc1458b2e8aa9dc0f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarkemaJames_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Harkema, James Description An account of the resource James Harkema, Football Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Football coaches Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ed4a78030290511c021c794cbbbe147.jpg 46b579b30be2f712d567105cc8897ca2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarkemaJames_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979 Title A name given to the resource Harkema, James Description An account of the resource James Harkema, Football Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Football coaches Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1979s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a501f617125ce26b2a88ae3f0b66fc2e.jpg 849087100a9735de84e65f9a1f3b2711 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarkemaJames_Photo03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Harkema, James Description An account of the resource James Harkema, Football Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Football coaches Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8fb9e65dbe52392b7959d906f0025291.jpg 9a724664c91eae4d7c6a5a6825bb64e9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarkemaJames_Photo04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979 Title A name given to the resource Harkema, James Description An account of the resource James Harkema, Football Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Football coaches Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1979s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89f6738c8245bd508f5880ee885d0a5d.m4v 1a8c37feecc0b832a9f23fd1c164f93b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05bb5981537234a53cce82e7af0ad76f.pdf 6dfd522f1e7e37d54bb074fafcd585fe PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Seymour Harkema Cold War – Korean War period 42 minutes 28 seconds (00:00:10) Early Life -Born in 1930 on the southeast side of Grand Rapids, Michigan -Father worked as a shoe repairman -Helped his father with work sometimes -Father had some financial troubles during the Great Depression -Lost a few houses during the Great Depression -Seymour was the youngest child in the family -His oldest brother could have been old enough to be his father -Had a scrapbook of airplanes and equipment used during World War II -Four of his brothers were in the military -Graduated from Grand Rapids Christian High School in 1948 -Attended Calvin College for three years (00:02:49) Enlisting in the Air Force -Decided to enlist in the Air Force -Knew he would be drafted, and didn’t want to get drafted into the Army -Being in college meant that he had a better chance of selecting his training -Researched the other military branches -Decided that with the Air Force he’d always sleep under a roof -Enlisted in December 1950 -Allowed to be home for Christmas -Reported to Detroit to be sworn in on December 26, 1950 (00:05:25) Basic Training -Sent to Lackland Air Force Base, Texas, for one week -From Lackland he went to Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas, for his basic training -Sent to Lackland for processing -Got to stay in a barracks -Training at Sheppard lasted a month -Basic training consisted of a lot of marching and learning how to take orders -Strong emphasis on discipline -Bed had to be made a certain way -He messed up once and had to clean the barracks’ steps with a toothbrush -Trained with a friend from Calvin College -Aside from him, he trained with a diverse mix of men from all over the country (00:08:40) Technical School -Did some testing in basic training and he qualified for technical school -Sent to Keesler Air Force Base, Mississippi, for technical school �-Good living conditions -Trained there from February to October 1951 -Learned about basic electronics -Mostly classroom work -Started with very basic science courses that he’d already had in college -Aware of the Southern culture -Got to visit New Orleans -Trained with men the same age as him (00:13:14) Stationed at Lowry Air Force Base -Sent to Lowry Air Force Base, Colorado, for specialist school -Training lasted six (or eight) weeks -Became an instructor at Lowry -Focused on gun, bomb, and rocket sights for fighter aircraft -Emphasis on the F-84 and F-86 fighter jets (newest aircraft at the time) -Always felt his work was militarily important -Needed adapt pilots to fight in the Korean War against the Soviet pilots -Had radar-guided sights -Taught operation of sights to the pilots, and maintenance to the technicians -Spent 11 months at Lowry (00:16:50) Mobile Training Unit -He went home on leave, and returned to Lowry only to discover the school had been disbanded -Decided to do an interview for a mobile training unit based out of Chanute Field, Illinois -Got accepted -Continued his gun, bomb, and rocket sight training as well as armaments of the jets -The F-84 and F-86 had machineguns, bombs, and air-ground rockets -Moved around to different bases -First place he went to was Selfridge Air Force Base, Michigan -Stationed there for one month -Returned to Chanute Field between assignments -Went to Alpena and Oscoda, Michigan, to work with the National Guard -Went to George Air Force Base, California (00:20:02) Stationed in Japan -Sent to Japan -Note: Possibly Itazuke Air Base or Ashiya Air Base -Interesting experience -Lived in a half-tent/half-walled building -Korean War was still going on -Worked with men who had experience in Korea -Transitioning from the F-80 to the F-86 -Had strong skills coming into Japan -Those men appreciated the training they received -Visited Tokyo -Stationed on Kyushu and was well-acquainted with the Japanese �-They invited him into their homes for dinner -Didn’t notice any hostility from the Japanese -Went to Nagasaki one time -Travelled to different bases in Japan -Allowed to fly from one base to another -Stationed there for three months -Went to Okinawa for three months -More confined than Japan, but very similar -Returned to the same base in Japan for another three months (00:25:35) Going to Korea -He went to Korea at least once a month -If you spent one day in Korea per month you didn’t have to pay income taxes -Flew over and socialized for a day then returned to Japan -Had a pilot friend stationed in Korea -There was a lot of tension felt by the pilots in Korea -Dangerous job and they knew they might not return from missions -The pilots were officers -The reason he could talk to the pilot was because they were college friends (00:28:58) Stationed at Hawaii -He returned to the United States after being stationed in Japan -Went back to Chanute Field for reassignment -Told he could get assigned to Hawaii, but he would need to reenlist for two years -Decided to opt for an early discharge to go back to college -The Air Force then realized they had nobody to send to Hawaii -He was assigned to Hawaii for the last three months of his enlistment -Worked with the National Guard and got to know the Hawaiian people -Stationed at Hickam Field (one of the places attacked on December 7, 1941) -By now, it was 1954 and the Korean War was over (00:31:30) End of Service -Strongly encouraged to reenlist -Wanted to know why he didn’t want to reenlist -He wanted to get out of the Air Force and return to college -Didn’t enjoy the regimentation of the military (00:32:11) Life after Service -Originally went to Calvin College for teaching, but didn’t want to do that after his service -Decided to attend the University of Michigan to study electrical engineering -Studied there for 3 ½ years -GI Bill paid for his college -Got married in January 1955 -Fiancée had stayed in Michigan, but visited him while he was at Lowry -While at Chanute Field he drove up to Michigan to visit her -Regularly wrote to each other during his time in the service -Had a career as an electrical engineer �-Worked for the Martin Company in Baltimore, Maryland -Wanted to get a job transfer to Denver, but that didn’t happen -Worked for them for four years -Got a job with Vitro Laboratories in Silver Spring, Maryland -Worked with them for 23 years -Worked with missiles -Missile launching electronics for submarines -He never got to go on a submarine -Retired from his work in Silver Spring and got a job with the Martin Marietta Corporation -Finally got to move to Denver -Retired fully in 1992 -He and his wife split their time between the mountains of Colorado and Arizona -Moved back and forth between those two places for a few years -Decided to move back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 2004 -Both children lived there -Moved into the Holland Home (00:41:28) Reflections on Service -Led to his career in electrical engineering -Confident it influenced him, he just can’t be sure what that effect was � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_HarkemaS1736V Title A name given to the resource Harkema, Seymour (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-03-28 Description An account of the resource Seymour Harkema was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 1930. In December 1950, he enlisted in the Air Force and received his basic training at Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas. Upon completion of basic training he went to Keesler Air Force Base, Mississippi, for electronics training then went to Lowry Air Force Base, Colorado. At Lowry, he learned about and became an instructor for radar-guided weapons sights on the F-84 and F-86 fighter jets. Once he left Lowry he joined a mobile training unit based out of Chanute Field, Illinois, and he served as an instructor at various bases in Michigan with the National Guard. He spent a total of nine months in Japan on Kyushu and Okinawa working with fighter pilots flying during the Korean War, and went to South Korea once a month during the war. After Japan, he returned Chanute Field, and for his final assignment he was stationed at Hickam Field, Hawaii, for three months until his enlistment ended in 1954. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Harkema, Seymour Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4752d56e82ccd43c487835b773573735.mp4 755064b5d68f41a1793168a937a09cd2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/113aa41a510666424e9b11d6f1f2864e.pdf bf0aacd81b504ac82d2856c9ed0cf08d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Charles Harlan Vietnam War Interview Length: (01:25:37:00) Pre-Enlistment Life / Training (00:00:38:00)  Harlan was born on December 10th, 1948, in Mancelona, Michigan, in the northwestern part of the Lower Peninsula, near Traverse City (00:00:38:00) o Harlan’s father worked as a truck driver and his mother did itinerant labor, mostly selling time shares from the family’s home (00:00:59:00)  Harlan grew up in the Mancelona area and graduated from Mancelona High School in 1966 (00:01:10:00)  Before he graduated from high school, Harlan chose to enlist in the military; he initially enlisted in May of 1966 but had to wait until he graduated from high school before he could formally join the service (00:01:21:00) o Before Harlan even enlisted, others around him were being drafted; half a dozen men from the 1965 graduating class from Mancelona were drafted (00:01:56:00)  Harlan himself could see that his getting drafted was inevitable, so he chose to go ahead and enlist (00:02:16:00) o When Harlan enlisted in 1966, the Vietnam War was not the news item it would become in 1969 and 1970; the war was kind of distant and not too many people talked about it (00:02:26:00)  However, while in high school, Harlan had a history teacher who was very interested in world affairs and Harlan remembers that at least one time, the teacher said that many of the young men sitting in the classroom that day would end up in Vietnam (00:02:40:00) o Part of Harlan’s rationale for enlisting was he would some choice as to what type of training he would receive; although the training was not the type of work Harlan eventually did in the military, he was still afforded the opportunity to chose his own training (00:03:26:00) o Harlan enlisted in the Army for a three-year enlistment, the mandatory length for enlistees, while draftees only had to do a two-year enlistment (00:03:54:00)  A month before he was actually inducted into the Army, Harlan went to Fort Wayne in Detroit for a physical and some tests (00:04:21:00) o A month later, Harlan reported again to Fort Wayne for additional tests and his official induction into the Army (00:04:34:00) o During the initial phase, Harlan was not aware of the Army making any active effort to “weed out” any lesser-quality individuals; as well, he is also unaware of anyone trying to purposely fail the tests to avoid military service (00:05:01:00)  From Fort Wayne, Harlan and the other newly-inducted men boarded a train that took them to Fort Knox, Kentucky for their basic training (00:05:33:00) o Harlan and the other men arrived at Fort Knox on a hot June afternoon and were greeted by the stereotypical yelling drill sergeant, which was quite an awakening and quite an adjustment for the men (00:05:41:00) � o o o o Harlan himself did not have any idea what to expect when he went to Fort Knox (00:06:06:00)  The first thing Harlan remembers when he stepped off the bus onto the base was the men were ordered to stand in a straight line and were told to stand tall (00:06:32:00)  After the men arrived at the base, they went through a battery of medical shots, went through another medical exam, had their military clothing issued while simultaneously shipping their civilian clothes home, and assignment to temporary barracks until they were assigned to a permanent training company (00:06:55:00) Prior to traveling to Fort Knox, Harlan and the other men went through a series of aptitude tests while at Fort Wayne; each man had to go through a qualification process to attend his school of choice for training (00:07:33:00)  Harlan’s choice of training was in marine diesel engineering (00:07:50:00)  Harlan knew he wanted to serve on boats and almost joined the Navy before he found out the Army had a marine branch as well; also, since Harlan’s father had previously served in the Army, Harlan was following in his footsteps and because Harlan’s father was a truck driver, Harlan had already spent time working around diesel engines (00:07:58:00) There were certain basics that were involved in the basic training, such as indoctrination into the military code of justice, learning about handling certain behavioral situations, learning how to salute and stand at attention, how to properly eat, how to dress and clean uniforms, etc. (00:08:49:00)  All of these were geared towards both teaching the men what military life was like and breaking each man down, removing their individuality and getting them to think as part of a team (00:09:34:00) Apart from the mental training, the men also had daily physical training; every day after breakfast was an hour of intensive PT (physical training) (00:09:59:00)  After the initial PT, a typical day might include some classroom training, a trip to the rifle range, a march, etc. (00:10:20:00) Harlan does not think he had much in the way of trouble adjusting to life in the Army, although there were certainly some hard times for him (00:10:45:00)  Harlan remembers one incident in particular when he and his training company were bivouac training (00:10:52:00)  After the men had progressed a certain number of weeks into the training, they would actually go and live in the field for a week, where they would do a number of exercises (00:11:00:00)  One of the exercises the men had to do was a forced march and Harlan remembers that while marching up one particular hill, he was exhausted but had to keep telling himself that he was not going to quit (00:11:09:00)  There were two men in Harlan’s training company who did not make it through basic training (00:11:58:00) �    Looking back, Harlan feels that in his young mind, none of the training probably ever made any real sense; however, looking back now, he sees that in hindsight, all the training was for something (00:12:35:00) The basic training lasted for eight weeks and once Harlan finished, he received a weeklong leave before the Army sent him to AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Fort Eustis, Virginia for marine diesel engineer (00:12:58:00) o Fort Eustis was located right next to the James River, near Newport News, Virginia (00:13:43:00) o The training at Fort Eustis was all schooling (00:13:53:00)  For the first two weeks, all the men went through a basic seamanship course, where they learned basic nautical skills (00:13:57:00)  After the initial two week course, there were five or six weeks of in-depth training into the marine diesel engine (00:14:05:00)  The in-depth training was all-inclusive, which meant once the men had the knowledge of working with the diesel engine, they would wind up working on anything from an LCM-8 (Landing Craft Mechanized – Mark 8) to a 100-foot tug boat to a fuel tanker (00:14:18:00)  Apart from training with just the engine, the men did were practical exercises where they went out on working craft to get hands-on experience as the engines were running (00:14:58:00) o Harlan remembers that life during AIT was pretty good compared to basic training; there was some PT but not a whole lot and there was not always someone in his face yelling at him (00:15:25:00) o The men had evenings and most weekends to themselves unless they had extra duty, such as KP (Kitchen Police) or guard duty (00:16:06:00)  The men were able to go off base and once off base, they could go to the movies, etc. (00:16:17:00)  One time, Harlan went to Norfolk, Virginia for a weekend there, seeing the sights, such as the Douglas MacArthur memorial (00:16:31:00) Although the AIT lasted for another eight weeks, Harlan ended up staying at Fort Eustis until May 1967 (00:16:53:00) o Once they finished the AIT, Harlan and the other men were assigned to static companies, where they stayed in a holding pattern until a letter from higher up came requesting a certain amount of men in an area (00:17:15:00) o As chance would have it, Harlan was assigned to the base motor pool and worked as the radio dispatcher for the base taxis; apart from being the dispatcher, Harlan was also a chauffeur several times for various officers on the base (00:17:49:00) o At that time, all the men were thinking that they were going to eventually end up in Vietnam (00:18:23:00)  Although he did not meet anyone who had actually served in Vietnam while at Fort Eustis, Harlan was nevertheless becoming more aware of the war and realizing that the war was growing (00:18:38:00) When Harlan received his orders to Vietnam in May 1967, the Army allowed him to go home for a week on leave, which he spent with family and friends (00:19:14:00) � o When the leave had finished, Harlan headed out to Oakland, California on Mother’s Day, 1967 (00:19:33:00) Once Harlan was in Oakland, prior to boarding the flight to Vietnam, he had to go through a host of different things that slowly filtered the men until Harlan was actually able to get on the flight (00:19:57:00) o The place in Oakland that Harlan arrived at was a large military depot and once the men were on the depot, they were not allowed off (00:20:34:00) o The flight to Vietnam stopped very briefly in Hawaii, not enough time to do any sight-seeing, then at Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines, where Harlan had his first introduction to tropical humidity (00:20:48:00)  At Clark, the men transferred from the chartered airplane to a series of smaller airplanes, each of which would take some of them to a different destination in Vietnam (00:21:06:00)  Harlan remembers that as they transferred between the two airplanes, it was a hot afternoon and the humidity blanketed him like he could not believe (00:21:16:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:21:42:00)  From Clark, it was a short flight to Pleiku, Vietnam, which was located in the Central Highlands, and an in-country processing center (00:21:42:00) o Harlan and the other men spent the night at the processing center before boarding another flight to their unit (00:21:56:00) o The night spent at Pleiku was Harlan’s first introduction to life in Vietnam because that night, the men were billeted in a building across the road from a battery of howitzers that came into action during the night (00:22:04:00)  When the guns fired, the ground shook, windows and walls rattled, and Harlan realized that it was no longer just the evening news (00:22:23:00) o When he first arrived at Pleiku, Harlan did not have a final destination or unit assignment (00:22:46:00) o The area around Pleiku consisted of forest-covered hills and red-colored clay, which Harlan felt, made the area look like the state of Georgia (00:22:52:00)  While in Pleiku, Harlan was assigned to the 1099th Boat Company, which was located to the south, near Saigon (00:23:29:00) o When he left Pleiku, Harlan took a flight south to Saigon and then boarded a truck for the trip out to Cat Lai, where the company was stationed (00:23:37:00)  Cat Lai was situated on the Dong Ngai river, a few miles east of the confluence of the Dong Ngai and Saigon rivers and about twenty miles east of Saigon (00:23:40:00) o Harlan remembers that when he and the other men arrived at the company, they went into the orderly room, where the company first sergeant greeted them and asked if anyone had any radio experience (00:24:26:00)  Harking back to his experience working as the radio dispatcher at Fort Eustis, Harlan raised his hand and was told he would be working in operators for awhile as a radio operator (00:24:44:00) o Harlan stayed in Cat Lai for awhile, working in the operations room and helping keep track of the thirty plus boats assigned to the company (00:25:14:00) � o At the time Harlan arrived, the 1099th was using LCM-8s (00:25:20:00)  The LCM-8 was a 76’ long by 20’ wide and was propelled by two banks of four Detroit diesel engines (00:25:44:00)  The boat was flat-bottomed with a landing platform at the front that lowered and acted as a ramp (00:26:01:00)  In Vietnam, the medium boat companies were mostly used in support of combat operations; however, the boats did occasionally haul various cargo, with Harlan’s boat one time hauling 1000 lb. bombs (00:26:33:00)  In supporting combat operations, the boats might be used in insertion operations, placing troops in an area, then in interdiction operations, as the troops flushed the enemy towards an area where the boat was positioned (00:27:19:00)  All of the boats were equipped with two .50 caliber machine guns, two M60 machine guns and a lot of the boats carried M-79 grenade launchers and various small arms (00:27:48:00) Harlan worked in the operations center at Cat Lai until September 1967, when he began regularly working on the boats; although he took part in some operations while working in the operations center, Harlan was not assigned to a specific boat (00:28:18:00) o Eventually, while Harlan was still in the operations center, a logistical situation developed where there were not enough coxswains (drivers) for all of the boats in the company (00:28:38:00)  After Harlan transferred, he spent a couple of weeks in on-the-job training before becoming a coxswain (00:28:51:00) o In the summer 1967 while Harlan was working in the operations center, there was a lot of contact with enemy forces in the area (00:29:14:00) o For the most part, the 1099th worked a lot with elements of the 9th Infantry Division, as well as elements of the 1st Infantry Division and the 199th Light Infantry Brigade (00:29:21:00) o Although there were NVA forces in the area, the elements that the 1099th worked with never came into contact with them; however, the Viet Cong forces had become more organized than they had previously been (00:29:44:00)  Before Harlan arrived and even during the early part of his tour, enemy forces were divided into three “divisions”, divided between insurgents, main force battalions, and NVA regulars; most of the time, Harlan’s unit faced off against main force battalions (00:30:03:00) o The 1009th’s base at Cat Lai was very small, built on the remains of an old French fort; the base had three sides, with the fourth side opening to the river, and most of the countryside around the base was flat, with the small village of Cat Lai to the south of the base (00:30:44:00)  The base itself came under attack by enemy mortar strikes, although it was largely harassing fire (00:31:06:00)  Cat Lai was a major discharge point for all the ammunition coming into the III and IV Corps zones, which made the base a prime target for enemy attacks (00:31:15:00) o As a result of the base being a prime target, it was fairly well-protected (00:31:30:00) �     In the time Harlan was stationed on the base, although there were numerous mortar strikes, there was never a direct hit on any ammunition storage or boat (00:31:38:00)  The men stationed on the base lived above ground, in a series of very basic tent barracks, although they did have bunkers to take shelter in if necessary during any mortar attacks (00:31:59:00) At the time, the Army was experimenting with the concept of placing artillery on barges that the 1099th would then ferry around to certain areas to act as fire support for any infantry operations that were happening nearby (00:32:35:00) o The concept worked so well that the Army pulled another boat company from near Cam Ranh Bay into the area and permanently assigned them the duty of ferrying around the artillery (00:33:03:00) Whenever Harlan was working as a radio operator on a boat, he was stationed in the boat’s wheelhouse, which was only big enough to fit two men (00:33:30:00) The boats were often prime targets for the enemy to fire at, largely because they were an easy target; the fastest a boat could move empty was only twelve knots, which was not very fast at all (00:34:05:00) o The gun platforms mounted on the boats were surrounded by armor plating and some of the guns themselves were covered with an armored shield (00:34:32:00) o Although the boats were not as armored as some of the equipment used today, the crews felt that they were adequately protected (00:34:47:00) o Because an enemy soldier stationed along the riverbank could cause a lot of damage to the boats, that was why the boats had as much firepower as they did (00:35:05:00)  Usually during operations, the boats were either escorted by air support or the air support was not too far away (00:35:16:00) Although the base of operations for the company was always at Cat Lai, sometimes the boats would be out of base for weeks at a time (00:35:44:00) o As well, the boats were not confined to working in just the area around the base and would often travel into other areas of operation for extended periods of time; however, when they worked in different areas, the boats still maintained a base of operations (00:35:56:00) o Typically during the night, if the boats were at a base of operations, they would tie up at a “secure location”; if the boats were not at a base of operations, they would find a secure point in the middle of the river, drop their anchors, tie together as best they could, and wait out the night (00:36:44:00)  During the night, guards would be posted and as a precaution, the guards would often drop concussion grenades into the water to deter sappers from swimming out to the boat (00:37:15:00)  The boats were mined a couple of times by the enemy but there was never an active attempt by someone to swim out to the boats; instead, the enemy would place the mines away from the boats and wait (00:37:39:00)  The mines that the enemy used could cause enough damage to sink a boat (00:37:59:00) o The boats always traveled in groups and there was never a situation were a single boat went out by itself (00:38:08:00) �       Sometimes, the boats traveled with support from a heavier Navy gunboat that was armed with 40mm cannons or 81mm mortars and heavier machine guns than what were mounted on the Army boats (00:38:16:00) During the latter part of 1967, when Harlan was serving aboard a boat, the level of enemy activity was never at a high enough level for Harlan to be able to tell if the activity ever increased or decreased (00:39:08:00) o Regardless, it seemed like there was always something going on and the men were always on guard; there was always the feeling of tension and expectation that something would happen, so the men were ever vigilant (00:39:21:00) o The idea of “winning” was not a subject that was of interest to any of the men; instead, they were just interested in surviving and get out of there (00:39:44:00) The morale and sense of bonding amongst the men in the unit was very high; it was amazing to Harlan how close some the men became (00:40:03:00) o For the most part, some of the men were with other men in the unit for the better part of seven or eight months before one of the men’s tours ended and he rotated home (00:40:25:00) o The unit did not suffer too many combat losses; in the time Harlan was with the unit, only six men were killed in action (00:40:44:00)  There were a large number of wounded and in the same time, the unit lost two boats and had three or four damaged (00:40:54:00) o For the most part, the concept of the older men training the newly-arrived men worked fairly well; however, Harlan himself does not recall ever training a replacement for himself (00:41:25:00) When Harlan was actually stationed on the base at Cat Lai, on occasion, he and some of the other men would make the short trip up to river to Saigon for business; when he would go on the trips, Harlan liked to get in and get the job done because he did not like being in the big city and having so many people around (00:41:55:00) Harlan recalls civilian Vietnamese worked on the base at Cat Lai, with one working as a translator in the operations and others doing cleaning and laundry, giving haircuts to the men, etc. (00:42:34:00) o Harlan did not think that those Vietnamese could be members of the VC (Viet Cong); the civilians could have been informers but Harlan did not think about it at the time (00:43:05:00) As well, the 1099th worked extensively with the South Vietnamese Navy, in situations where the South Vietnamese provided gunboats to act as security for the LCMs (00:43:19:00) o Contrary to the views of most Vietnam veterans, Harlan was always impressed with the South Vietnamese personnel (00:43:29:00)  On many occasions, Harlan saw the South Vietnamese personnel right in the thick of the fighting next to the Americans and he never saw them blink or back away (00:43:41:00)  Harlan knows of several situations when South Vietnamese forces were instrumental in turning the tide of battle in particular situations (00:43:55:00) Harlan himself had several close chances with enemy gunfire coming in from the shoreline (00:44:22:00) �  o When they would attack the boats, a favorite weapon of the enemy was RPGs (Rocket-Propelled Grenades) because the actually hull of the boat was only a quarter-inch of steel (00:44:42:00)  For the most part, the enemy aimed the RPGs at the hull of the ship, intending to sink the ship; however, this meant hitting the hull close the water line and whenever they aimed too high, they just made holes in the sides of the boats, so there were often boats sailing around with RPG holes in them (00:45:06:00) Towards the end of Harlan’s tour, eleven boats in the company, Harlan’s included, were reassigned to help support elements of 69th Engineer Battalion, 9th Infantry, which was stationed at Dong Tam (00:45:41:00) o When the boats transferred, they began operating in the heart of the Mekong River Delta region (00:46:19:00) o The activities that the boats did in the Delta were mostly in support of a construction battalion, which was different in and of itself; however, there were still times when the boats were called to support infantry elements (00:49:30:00)  The construction battalion was building a new air base to the south of Can Tho and the boats hauled supplies and provided security from enemy harassment fire (00:46:54:00) There was just as much enemy activity in the Mekong Delta as there had been around Saigon, especially during the Tet Offensive in 1968 (00:47:28:00) o When the offensive began, Harlan remembers being woken up in the middle of the night and being told that they needed to move the boats into the middle of the river as well as set up extra security (00:47:55:00)  Harlan remembers a sergeant saying that “every place in the country was lit up” (00:48:18:00) o During the offensive, the boats were called back to the Dong Tam area to support elements of the 9th Infantry as the elements moved into various areas that were under enemy attack (00:48:30:00) o There was an airbase near Can Tho that was heavily mortared and the boats operated in support of that base on several occasions (00:48:52:00) o Although the boats were not initially targeted by the enemy, when they moved in support of the 9th Infantry, they moved into a man-made harbor and at night, the harbor was heavily mortared by the enemy; the men had to rush to untie the boats then scatter them around the harbor (00:49:10:00) o For the most part, the enemy launched mortar rounds in groups and then adjusted the mortars before firing again; the enemy would not launching individual rounds then adjust the mortars after every round but would instead “walk” the mortars along a pre-set line (00:49:45:00)  The length of the mortar attacks depended on the size of the force that the boats were opposing; when the boats were stationed at Cat Lai, some mortar attacks lasted for twenty minutes while the attack during the night at Dong Tam lasted for around five or ten minutes (00:50:36:00)  During the night attack, the personnel on the base had some way of responding to the mortar fire but because the boats were in the �     harbor and they were in an unfamiliar area, their crews did not fully know what to do (00:51:03:00) o The high intensity level of the offensive did not last too long; Harlan would figures it lasted for about a month before it peaked and started going down (00:51:33:00) Harlan saw a large amount of the South Vietnamese civilian population, especially while in the Mekong Delta, where the majority of population tended to live along with shoreline of the river and canals (00:52:46:00) o Harlan remembers that one time, when they were making a run to the airbase near Can Tho, as they turned to go down the canal that ran next to the airbase, at the conjunction of the river and the canal was a schoolhouse (00:53:01:00)  Harlan remembers seeing kids poke their heads out of the window and he remembers thinking what it must have been like for them, seeing all the combat going on around them (00:53:28:00)  It was surreal to Harlan how the civilians were able to continue going about their lives (00:53:56:00) o At the time, Harlan could only really wonder how the South Vietnamese civilians and military viewed the Americans; however, as chance would have it, he has run into former South Vietnamese military personnel in the United States who came as refugees and who he has talked with (00:54:08:00)  Whenever he has talked with the South Vietnamese refugees, they have always talked highly of the Americans (00:54:27:00) On the crew of Harlan’s boat, apart from Harlan, there was one guy from California, another was from Texas, and another was from Chicago (00:55:20:00) o All in all, throughout the entire unit, there was a mixture of men from all over the country, with a wide array of ethnicities (00:55:43:00)  Harlan does not recall anyone having any real trouble with any of the other soldiers (00:56:13:00) o Although Harlan remembers hearing about the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. in March 1968, he remembers it was not a big news item and none of the men were so affected that they needed to have more information; as tragic as the assassination was, there was still a bigger priority in their lives (00:56:27:00) o It was a tradition amongst the men to keep short-timer calendars, which they would start up thirty days before they would leave (00:57:08:00) When the boats where in the Can Tho region, about two or three weeks before Harlan was set to rotate home, he was flown back to Saigon and trucked out to Cat Lai, where he would go through his out-processing (00:57:23:00) In the time Harlan was there, there was not much in the way of drug usage on the base; he does not recall more than one or two men experimenting with drugs (00:58:07:00) o Then, when the men did use drugs, they were often shunned by the other men in the unit, those who wanted to live through the ordeal (00:58:26:00) For the most part, the individual boat crews were responsible for themselves; if they screwed up, then they were the ones who were punished (00:59:07:00) o Typically, the crew would receive their assignment for the day that would lay out where the crew would go and what they would do and once they arrived, who �        they would report to; it was often that person who coordinated the activities of the boat(s) (00:59:19:00) o On an actual command level, there were sergeants and lieutenants who the crews answered to and coordinated the boats; however, when the boats were out there operating, the crews were in charge of the boats (00:59:44:00) o Harlan does not recall any having any disappointments with the NCOs and officers that he served with (01:00:10:00)  While in Vietnam, the NCOs and officers did not worry about the “spit and polish” side of the Army; in fact, most of the officers would go without wearing their rank insignia (01:00:32:00) The men were not required to wear helmets and flak jackets all the time but they did whenever they were moving along the river or on an operation; if the boat was tied up, then most of the men wore shorts and flip-flops (01:00:48:00) In Harlan’s mind, the time spent in Vietnam is just one long episode; there are not any peaks or valleys (01:01:37:00) At one point, Harlan received an R&R and went down to Australia, which was his first choice of R&R destination (01:01:49:00) o While in Australia, Harlan went sight-seeing, relaxed, went out drinking and clubbing (01:02:00:00) o The Australians that Harlan would encounter knew he was an American serviceman and they were very welcoming to him (01:02:10:00) o Harlan received the R&R roughly six or seven months into his tour (01:02:22:00) o Returning to Vietnam at the end of the R&R was surreal because Harlan was sitting on the plane, wondering why he was going back (01:02:31:00) For the most part, when the men had to stay on the boats overnight, they would eat CRations, although once every couple of days, the men received a days worth supply of ARations, usually fresh meat and fruit (01:02:55:00) o On occasion, the men also bought food from local markets (01:03:21:00) o The food at the base camps was usually better, insofar as the food was actually cooked up and fresh (01:03:37:00) Most of the base camps that Harlan spent time at had their own small clubs for the men to visit; the base camp at Cat Lai even had a small, open-air theater (01:03:53:00) o Harlan remembers that one time, the men watched Doctor Zhivago, a cold weather movie in the midst of the Vietnamese heat (01:04:02:00) The boats had bunk areas built behind the wheelhouse; although not originally intended as a bunkhouse, there was a small area behind the wheelhouse that the men engineered to serve as the bunkhouse, large enough for four men to sleep comfortably (01:04:35:00) Although the boats did do operations where they inserted infantry, the landing zones were often not under fire by the enemy (01:05:19:00) o Nevertheless, on a couple of occasions, the boats were attacked by the enemy on their way to a landing zone (01:05:42:00) Harlan was never wounded during his tour and he never picked up any of the common tropical diseases; the only physical change Harlan experienced was that he lost a lot of weight (01:05:56:00) �   Harlan has talked with men who had served in the infantry and when Harlan explains what he did for his tour, some of the other men said that they would not have traded places with him (01:06:24:00) o On the other hand, when Harlan’s boat would go out and pick up a group of infantry who had been in the field for a week, Harlan did not want to trade places with them, either (01:06:38:00) o According to the men who served in the infantry, the boats were big, slowmoving and out in the open (01:06:58:00)  However, being able to move was key to Harlan because unless there was something holding the boat to a specific spot, the men could move it if necessary (01:07:08:00) Although the enemy did not have any “naval forces” of their own, there were still civilian boats on the rivers and canals and the men had to watch them (01:07:18:00) o Quite often, Harlan and the other men would stop the civilian boats to search through the boat (01:07:31:00) o Harlan does not recall ever having interpreters on the boat when they would stop to search a civilian boat; the civilians knew why they were stopped and they would just let the men search the boat (01:07:44:00) When the day finally came for Harlan to leave, he went through out-processing out of the company, which was mostly turning in his weapon and equipment as well as signing some paperwork (01:08:13:00) o After out-processing, Harlan was trucked to Tan Son Nhut Air Force base, where he stayed overnight before flying out the next day (01:08:33:00)  While at Tan Son Nhut, Harlan remembers being gathered with other soldiers in a massive building as they all waited for various flights out of the country (01:08:47:00) o Harlan remembers the plane sitting on the tarmac and he could not wait to get on it and get started home (01:09:01:00)  When the plane took off and the men saw the ocean, that was when they knew that the war was behind them (01:09:18:00) o The flight back to the United States leap-frogged across the Pacific Ocean, stopping at Guam, Wake Island, and Hawaii before finally arriving at Travis Air Force Base outside San Francisco (01:09:34:00) Post-Vietnam Military Service / Post-Military Life / Reflections (01:10:04:00)  Harlan still had a year remaining on his enlistment but once he was back in the United States, the Army allowed him to take a month leave to go back home (01:10:04:00) o When he returned to the United States, Harlan did not have trouble with anti-war protestors (01:10:30:00)  The flight from Vietnam arrived at Travis late in the evening and by the time the men finished at Travis and made it down to San Francisco International Airport, it was late at night and there were not any flights going out (01:10:36:00)  As it turned out, there was a USO center in the airport and the staff happily gave the group of men beds (01:10:52:00) �   Harlan woke up early the next morning but nothing was happening yet and as he walked around the airport, he noticed a small barber shop was open that also offered showers and shaves (01:11:08:00)  The owner of the barber shop saw Harlan walking past and asked if Harlan was just getting back; when Harlan said he was, the man offered a shower and shave, on the house (01:11:31:00)  Contrary to what most other returning soldiers experienced, Harlan’s first experience back was a free hot shower, haircut and shave (01:11:48:00) Once his leave was over, Harlan received an assignment to an infantry unit stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas, as a radio operator (01:12:28:00) o Harlan was assigned the Headquarters Company, which meant he did not have to go slogging into the field with a radio strapped to his back; instead, he was part of a support section doing radio repair and maintenance (01:12:48:00) o Harlan was officially assigned to Headquarters Company, 2nd Battalion, 34th Infantry Regiment, 24th Infantry Division (01:13:10:00)  The unit was active duty, with one of the 24th Division’s brigades stationed at Fort Riley and the other stationed at a base in Germany; the brigade would rotate between being at Fort Reilly and being deployed to the base in Germany (01:13:26:00) o Harlan ran into a lot of men stationed at Fort Riley who had also served in Vietnam (01:13:47:00) o Apart from the active duty forces stationed on the base, there also training units at Fort Riley, which was somewhat surreal for Harlan (01:13:58:00)  The anti-war movement had started to pick up in the country and a lot of the training done at Fort Riley was in riot control (01:14:01:00) o The units at the base were constantly on the move, either training or conducting exercises and equipment was always being returned or taken out (01:14:59:00) Harlan stayed with the headquarters company until September 1968, when he received reassignment to 1st Battalion, 63rd Armored Regiment, 1st Infantry Division, which was the only unit of the 1st Infantry still in the United States; the remainder of the division had deployed to Vietnam (01:15:21:00) o Harlan’s company in the battalion was one of three equipped with the M551 Sheridan tank and were tasked with testing whether the tank wcould be air mobile, able to deploy with paratroopers (01:15:53:00)  The M551 was unique at the time because it could fire both conventional ammunition and laser-guided missiles (01:16:18:00)  In tests, the men did successfully launch the tank via parachute from a plane and had the tank land and still be fully operational (01:16:34:00) o When Harlan was with the headquarters company, he did a lot of radio repair and when the time came for him to receive a promotion, the Army changed his MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) to radio repairman (01:17:20:00)  Therefore, when Harlan was assigned to A Company, 1st Battalion, 63rd Armored, it was as a radio repairman (01:17:36:00)  However, when the unit went on temporary duty to Fort Irwin, California for testing and training, Harlan filled in as a loader aboard one of the M551s (01:17:43:00) �      As far as Harlan could tell, there was a good mix in the units between enlistees and draftees (01:18:35:00) o For the most part, the men in the units had good morale; in particular, in the tank crew Harlan served with, two of the other men had also served tours in Vietnam and all three were upbeat about not having to go back to Vietnam (01:18:47:00) o Even among the men who had not been to Vietnam, there was still good morale and all the men were upbeat about their situation (01:19:04:00) Even though the Army made an effort to convince Harlan to re-enlist, Harlan would describe it as only a half-hearted effort (01:19:22:00) Although Harlan was not officially discharged from the military until June 1972, he was off active duty in June 1969; at that time, everyone was obligated to serve some period on inactive reserve (01:20:18:00) Once he was off active duty, Harlan returned home and tried to pick up anything he could in civilian life in order to make a living (01:20:51:00) o Harlan eventually found a job working in land surveying, which he found by chance through a friend from high school who had also just returned from serving in Vietnam (01:21:10:00)  The friend had already been working for the company when Harlan returned and one day, the friend told Harlan that the company was looking to hire, so Harlan interviewed for the job (01:21:27:00) o For the most part, Harlan continued doing land surveying for the remainder of his working life (01:21:41:00) When he returned home, Harlan did not talk too much with others about his experiences in Vietnam (01:22:28:00) o Harlan did not really talk about his experiences until the latter part of the 1980s and early 1990s; Harlan first opened up about his experiences while looking following his son’s deployment during the First Persian Gulf War (01:22:48:00) o Harlan still goes to the VA regularly as well as attends a support group for veterans; overall, the VA offers so much more now than they did when Harlan first returned from Vietnam (01:23:40:00)  When Harlan first returned from Vietnam, PSTD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) was unheard of (01:24:08:00) Looking back on his time in the service, Harlan would say that the time ended up affecting him for the good (01:24:41:00) o To this day, Harlan has the attitude that someone should just do what they have to do and do whatever it is right and everyone should be treated fairly and with respect; although Harlan had somewhat learned these before going into the military, the military helped cement them in his mind (01:24:44:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Harlan, Charles (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Harlan, Charles Description An account of the resource Charles Harlan grew up in Mancelona, Michigan, and enlisted in the Army as soon as he finished high school in 1966 in order to stay ahead of the draft and have some say in his assignment. After basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, he went to Fort Eustis, Virginia, for training in marine diesel engines. Deploying to Vietnam in May, 1967, he went first to Pleiku in the Central Highlands, but was then assigned to the 1099th Transportation Company based at Cat Lai, east of Saigon, which operated landing craft along the rivers. At first, Harlan worked in the operations center at Cat Lai before become a coxswain aboard an LCM-8. While working as a coxswain, Harlan helped in the movement of supplies up and down the rivers around Saigon and the deployment of infantry from the 9th and 1st Infantry Divisions. Towards the end of Harlan's tour, eleven of the company's LCM-8s moved down to the Mekong Delta, just in time for the start of the enemy's 1968 Tet Offensive. During the offensive, Harlan's LCM-8 continued moving men and supplies, as well as provided support to besieged American units along the shore. Upon his return from Vietnam in 1968, he was sent to Fort Riley, Kansas, where he worked first as a radio operator for a unit of the 24th Division, and then with a battalion of the 1st Infantry Division that was testing the airmobile capacity of the new Sheridan tank. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-28 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarlanC1370V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d42da0ec8f7c3c48242fbbbbf609915.mp3 64f61d63258d82e993ef3ea257990410 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0c05ccaa292e88b5959491c7c1806dd2.pdf b6ef9a756768be9a2d3125cc87716e60 PDF Text Text Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul From the series: The Human Face of God Text: Amos 5:21, 24; 7:13; John 11:48 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan Lent V, April 9, 2000 Transcription of the spoken sermon The Lenten focus on the human face of God is a focus that intends for us to concentrate on the life of Jesus. Because of what has been done archeologically and in cross-cultural studies of peasant societies of the Roman Mediterranean basin, we know more about the historical circumstances and the social context of the life of Jesus than any generation since that time. The more we learn about the circumstances which Jesus addressed, the more it becomes evident that Jesus dealt in a very concrete way with the contemporary issues of his day and that the kingdom of God of which he spoke was a very down-to-earth kingdom, having to do with social relationships and economic matters and political concerns, that Jesus was in the tradition of the great Hebrew prophets, that Jesus addressed the power structures of his day, structures of religion and politics, and that, in that confrontation with established authority, he was publically executed because he was deemed to be a dangerous, prophetic figure. The fact that I concentrate on the life of Jesus in the Lenten season or anytime, you have to know, is a surprise to me, and I do it with a guilty conscience, because I was raised on the conventional wisdom that religion and politics don't mix. I do it with a guilty conscience because it was drilled into me that you don't drag politics into the pulpit. I do it with a bit of foreboding because I hear those voices of my past that say, "Don't read the newspaper to me; tell me about God." That's the way it was said. I believed it. And so, when I deal as I deal in the season of Lent with the life of Jesus, and when I am forced to conclude that he died the way he died because he lived the way he lived, then I am doing about a 180-degree turn from where I came into this business, and one doesn't do that without having the old tapes continue to play. I am telling you things that in an earlier time in my ministry I would have written off as the social gospel of the late 19th century and early 20th century, the social gospel against which I was warned as the gospel of the old liberalism that saw Jesus as a model and an example. I present to you today, according to the best understanding I have, Jesus' dying a martyr's death which, at one time, I would have scorned. He wasn't a martyr; he was, rather, the Lamb of God destined before the foundations of the world to die for the sin of the world. The music we have just heard sung by the choir is lovely, © Grand Valley State University   �Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul Richard A. Rhem Page 2   but the theology is poor, and that's where I was. To come to where I have come is quite a radical adjustment. But the adjustment is necessary if I would be honest with you and would be honest to God, because I believe with all my being that Jesus is a heroic, magnificent figure who was filled with the Spirit of God, who was the embodiment of God in human flesh, who incarnated that which was truest of the depths of the heart of God. Being that, he faced what was wrong with this world and, in the name of the God of justice, the God of Israel and on behalf of the people, he confronted the established powers in the hopes that there might be transformation. Jesus, as John before him and Paul after him, I believe, expected that God would intervene very soon, and would right what was wrong. But, in the meantime, he called his people to live as what they were - the children of God, with dignity and honor, even in their oppressed state, and he confronted the powers of religion and politics in the name of the people, in the name of God calling for justice. The adjustment that I have made is an adjustment that I can illustrate to you by pointing you to the most familiar of Christian creeds, the Apostles’ Creed. You remember it? "I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried..." Do you note anything? Do you realize, in the light of what I have been saying, that we jumped from his birth to his death? "Born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate." The whole of the life of Jesus lies in that comma. The Church in its creedal tradition and in most of the centuries of its existence has made of Jesus a cultic salvation figure and has failed to face the truth of his life. The most familiar creed of the church dumps it all into one comma, without a word. I do believe that Jesus was in the tradition of the Hebrew prophets, the tradition of the writing prophets of the 8th century, those great Hebrew prophets, the first of whom was Amos. Date him around 750-760 B.C.E. in the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Jeroboam is king. The country has prospered and expanded; it is affluent and all is well. But there is no compassion for the poor, there is no justice in the structures of society, and Amos is that prophet in the name of God who confronts the establishment with the conditions of the people of God that betray what God is all about. Amos was the first example of that which was true of Israel and made it unique. Do you remember Israel is born on the Exodus; they are brought into the Promised Land; they live for a period of time under the Judges. When there is a crisis, the Spirit of God falls on someone, a Samson or a Gideon, and they rise up and lead the people of God through the crisis and to peace, and then they go back and farm again. God is the king. Israel, in that situation, has a theocracy. But, then the greatest Judge of them all, Samuel, is the minister of the day and the people say, "We're tired of being this way. We want to be like other nations. We © Grand Valley State University �Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul Richard A. Rhem Page 3   want a king." Samuel says, "If you get a king, the king will tax you, he will take your sons and daughters, there will be conscripted labor. Think twice before you do it." They say, "We want a king." Saul is anointed, followed by David, followed by Solomon, and, with the rise of the monarchy in Israel, there arose the prophetic voice. The unique thing about Israel, and I suspect the thing that has kept Israel alive through all these millennia, is the fact that established power was always addressed by a prophet in the name of God. Religion and politics could never get away with it in Israel without hearing the word of the Lord. Amos was the first of the writing prophets who confronted that Northern Kingdom in the time of its prosperity and its social disregard and said, "You are going to die." I don't think Amos knew in terms of some predicted prophesy what was going to happen in the next few decades, but, as a matter of fact, in 722 the Assyrian empire came in and removed the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom, and we still speak today of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. They were removed from their land, never to return. Amos said to them it is because there is no justice in the land. He said, "You have religion a-plenty. But, I despise your feasts; I can't stand your music. Your religion stinks." Well, he didn't quite say that. He said, "Your religion is an offense in the nostrils of God." Amos was tough. Amos was passionate, and Amos confronted the royal court, only to have the royal high priest come out and confront him. So, in the 7th chapter we have that encounter between Amaziah the priest and Amos the prophet, and Amaziah appeals to the king and says, "This man is saying things that cannot be tolerated. This language is unacceptable in the royal court. This is the royal temple; go back to Judah and earn your bread there." Amos said, “Look, I'm not a prophet getting paid for this thing, a professional religionist. I'm no prophet; I'm no prophet's son, but when I was following the flock, the word of God came to me and said, 'You go prophesy to my people Israel. ‘Now, therefore, hear the word of the Lord.’” That was old Amos. We have some familiar phrases from Amos. "Woe to you who are at ease in Zion. Prepare to meet your God." And the text of the morning, "Let justice flow down as mighty waters and righteousness as a mighty stream. Enough of your religious feasts and festivals and all of your liturgical finery. Give me justice. Don't think you can worship me and at the same time be living in a situation of injustice and oppression." So, the priest says to Amos, "Go away." But, as always happens, royal power coopts religion and, even though the monarchy grew and over against it the prophetic voice, the monarchy knew it couldn't make it without the religious blessing, and so it cultivated the priesthood that would offer it sacrifices, would pray at its presidential inaugurations, would bless the beans at the PTA, the kind of harmless religion that is ceremonial, that functions in order to give a gloss to © Grand Valley State University �Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul Richard A. Rhem Page 4   everything and not allow any examination of what is really going on in a society. That kind of religion is paid for by the royal court, and Amaziah was happy to be in the service of the king. But, Amos said, "Hear the word of the Lord," and thus we have the classic confrontation between the prophet and the priest, between religion and politics. In the gospel story that we read a moment ago, Jesus had performed the miracle of the raising of Lazarus and, contrary to Matthew, Mark and Luke, who make the cleansing of the temple the catalytic event, for John it is the raising of Lazarus which causes the people to stand in awe and believe, so they call a council meeting and ask, "What in the world are we going to do? If this goes on, the whole world will follow him and then the Romans will come in and destroy our holy place and our nation." Caiphus, sophisticated, suave, wily, a man about town with a lot of experience, says, "You don't know anything at all. It's better that this one man die than that the nation perish." (And John, being High Priest that year, spoke as a prophet, pointing to Jesus' death as the means of bringing in all the scattered children of God.) But, where would you have been? What side of the table if you had been at that Sanhedrin meeting? I mean, it's not such a simple matter; these were not bad people. In the situation in which Jesus emerged, Roman imperial power held the trump card, but the Sadducee and priestly families were the authority that was the buffer between Rome and the people. They were the ones that could keep the natives quiet and, as far as Rome was concerned, Rome knew how to rule. They had the priestly establishment that would keep the natives quiet while they exploited the countryside. Wonderful. If you were a Sadducee in authority, you were a high priestly person and playing ball with Rome, you would get along pretty well in Jerusalem. Yet, their fears were not unfounded. What they feared actually happened four decades later, because some fanatical, hysterical prophet came to town and aroused the populace and there was some kind of demonstration that brought in, finally, the Roman legions that decimated the town and leveled the temple. And these were responsible people. What would you have done, for example, if you had sat on the Board of Elders at that Jerusalem Council meeting? Where would you have been? Might you have said, "Look, what he's saying is in the tradition of our greatest prophets." Would you have argued on Jesus' behalf that he was reaching back into that old covenant history? Would you have been supportive of him and say, "He's non-violent. He's appealing to the people, to their dignity, to their sense of being the children of God. He's in the line of the prophets. What he is talking about is what we ought to be concerned about as those who are in authority for this people." Is that how you would have argued? Or, would you have said, "Caiphas, the old fox. That's it. I don't like to do it. I think essentially the guy himself is rather harmless, but he's got to go." © Grand Valley State University �Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul Richard A. Rhem Page 5   It's not such an easy thing. If you bear responsibility for the well-being of society or church, government, community, if that's your responsibility, then you do have to be careful about any traveling salesman that comes to town who would cause a disruption, that would be bad for the body politic. It's not so easy. But, you see, practicality and expediency demanded that Jesus be publically executed. Why? Because he was a danger to civil life and public order. Because he dared confront the religious, political authority with the devastating condition of the people of his day, and just like Amos in the name of the God of justice, Jesus stood for all of that which reflected the intention of God. The beat goes on. This kind of thing doesn't stop. There is a video about the life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer which I saw a year or two ago, a video which had footage I had never seen before, the leaders of the German evangelical church giving the Heil Hitler salute, embracing Hitler, affirming Hitler and Hitler them. That's a familiar story to us, but it's rather shocking again when you actually see it happen. And to the credit of Karl Barth and Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Pastor Neimueller and others, they formed the Confessing Church that came out of the evangelical church and, of course, Dietrich Bonhoeffer died. He gave his life because that's what happens to people who confront religious, political cooptation. We've just gone through again the anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King. The assassin, James Earl Ray, has died, but finally through the King family's own pursuits we know now that, what we've suspected all along, there was government complicity, because we don't publically execute people today. We get them assassinated. We have our own way of doing it, and Martin Luther King was a disruptive prophet. It was in the Civil Rights of the 60s which King was leading which was the beginning of my own coming to consciousness of the fact that the church had to be about more than the salvation of souls. I didn't march; I wasn't that awake. But I should have. It was about that time, as well, that Martin Luther King began to speak out on the Vietnam War. There were many protestors, particularly the young. And there were some voices in the church. The church was beginning to see that the very real world needs to be addressed, in the name of God, in the name of Jesus Christ. Martin Luther King was slain, assassinated. I remember in the wake of the sixties where I was starting to come awake, and having gone to Europe, came back here in 1971 and a few of us went out to the Institute for Successful Church Leadership in Garden Grove, California. April of 1971. Part of that Institute was a conversation with Bob Schuler in his office, and there were some seminarians there and there was a young professor of New Testament that didn't have enough to know that you don't needle the host. So, now this is 1971, in the wake of all of this "stuff," and he was pushing Bob Schuler because Bob had made some statements about "No controversy in the pulpit." That was something that was a hallmark of Bob Schuler's ministry. He got a little © Grand Valley State University �Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul Richard A. Rhem Page 6   agitated and he condemned those preachers who got out of their pulpits and took up picket signs and walked the streets. I had a little bit of concern for the young professor, and I intervened and said to Bob, "Well, what about Jesus?" He said, after a long pause, "I'm only 44; I don't have all the answers." Word for word quote. It’s not easy to make decisions, draw lines, know when to speak, where to speak, when to stand up. It’s not easy to know how to balance social serenity with public protest. But, I have to tell you, Jesus died because of the way he lived, because he embodied and incarnated the justice of which Amos spoke. Don't you suspect that I would rather come here week after week and be your priest rather than, from time to time, being a prophetic voice? Don't you think it would be more comfortable for me to inspire, encourage, comfort? Don't you think that Jesus as a salvation figure is harmless in terms of any contemporary issue that you are facing in your business or political life? Isn't the fact that the church is swept along with this worship as entertainment which is so noisy and blaring - isn't that because it's reflecting the culture that is noisy and blaring? You can't even go to a ball game without the action stopping and the organ starting. You turn on the TV and the commercials blast you out of the room. You go to a movie, and the previews knock you out of the seat. The culture is noisy; there's no time to be silent and to think, to ponder. Music, worship as entertainment. It's harmless. Or, worship, religion as therapeutic, helping you to be well-adjusted so that survive the pressures and tensions that you face in the world or the community life, giving you wisdom by which to be well-adjusted, well-attuned, to get by without ruffling feathers and causing trouble. Don't you think it would easier for me to peddle here week after week harmless religion, to use Dom Crossan's phrase, Religion as Prozac? There's a lot of it around. It's a lot easier to be a priest, and it's easy for me to be a priest because I love you and I love to pray with you and I love to be there with you and feel your pain and share your darkness. That's very natural for me. It's very natural for all of the people on this team. But, sometimes it's also liberating and freeing to gain one's own soul and to be honest to God. © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Lent V Series The Human Face of God Scripture Text Amos 5:21, 24, 7:13, John 11:48 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-20000409 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-04-09 Title A name given to the resource Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on April 9, 2000 entitled "Harmless Religion: Loss of Soul", as part of the series "The Human Face of God", on the occasion of Lent V, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Amos 5:21, 24, 7:13, John 11:48. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Historical Jesus Prophetic Voice Transformation; Justice https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8201fb41262db1b15599e68ae3fe7a9b.jpg 7e8c1e5ae1ed4022813bd70101f0d4a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_PHOT_1880s-Harms-Blacksmith-NL-img628 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1880 Title A name given to the resource Harms blacksmith in Alkmaar, Netherlands, circa 1880s. Description An account of the resource Photograph of Harms family standing in front of the Harms blacksmith storefront with a horse. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Netherlands Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives