374 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2a015e7ddba94f76f8aab65b13cf37c.mp4 011bc0ded309c689214cdf3dfd3752ea https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/77dc04097aff44400021dfba57fb5da5.pdf 648b7c3f00ceb9834cb682b70ed8e187 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: Judge, why don't we just begin by your giving us some idea, what was background that let you to eventually become a pilot? JUDGE OLDER: Well, I was attending UCLA. I think the first airplane ride I had was while I was attending UCLA. I went out to Mines Field, which is now L.A. International and paid $5 for a ride in an old midway N skull? The pilot took me up for a half hour and we played around in the clouds and I was sold after that. And the next thing that happened was that shortly before I graduated some Navy JG came around who was trying to get college students interested in the cadet program and he gave us some very interesting stories about Navy flying, snap rolls, wing overs and all of the other formation flying. By the time he got thru I was pretty well sold on the idea of going to flying before I went to I was going to continue and go on to law school, but the cadet program provided a way that you could get into the service and stay for 3 years get your flight training, become an officer and join one of the active squadrons and then after 3 years you could get out and continue your education and that's what I intended to do. FRANK BORING: So where did you actually begin your training as a pilot? JUDGE OLDER: Well, I went in as a naval cadet, but I became a marine cadet down at Long Beach. Long Beach is what they called the elimination �base. You went down there and got ten hours of instruction and soloed and if you passed the course down there then you went to Pensacola for the full flight course. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived at Pensacola, did you find the same kind of excitement in the learning how to fly as you had anticipated when you first went down? JUDGE OLDER: Oh, absolutely. Pensacola was a great place. FRANK BORING: What can you tell us about it? JUDGE OLDER: Well, I don't remember how many hundred cadets were there. We lived in barracks and very nice barracks. Pensacola is a very pretty place and for flying it is ideal. It's on the water and of course they had seaplanes and big boat flying which I didn't go into. Because they changed the course, I think our class was the first course that didn't get seaplane training and we went on into fighters. They had 4 or 5 airfields that you worked out of in the area. The course took something like I think it was 9 months. At the end of that time if you got thru all the checks, the various checks, you had checks, Squadron II, you had checks in squadron, I mean flight checks the instructors taking you up and checking you out. The big check was the check in Squadron III if you got by 8 hour check in Squadron III that's when the cadets would usually go out and bought themselves cars. Because that meant that unless something really happened that was if they really fouled up they were going to completed the course and get there wings and have steady source of income so they went, I bought myself a brand new 1940 Mercury convertible, black with a tan top and red leather upholstery. It was really a machine. FRANK BORING: The next question is a continuation of this, but I let you know what I'm trying to lead to. There was a reason why you eventually decided to take the opportunity of going to China, but before �getting into that –well, I'm not going to stay in the States I'm going to go to China. Do you see what I'm trying to… JUDGE OLDER: Well, it didn't happen that way. FRANK BORING: Ok. JUDGE OLDER: But I got the picture. FRANK BORING: Ok, what were your options once you did graduate from cadet school? JUDGE OLDER: Well, you really didn't have any options. They assigned you to a squadron and fortunately I was assigned to a fighter squadron in the Marine Corp, being a Marine cadet which I wanted. I could have of course gone into other Marine squadrons, but fortunately I did go into VMF 1, Fighting Squadron 1 at Quantico, Virginia. Along with Tom Haywood and Ken Jernstedt you also became AVG pilots with me at the same time. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear about the opportunity in China? JUDGE OLDER: I had just gotten back from leave out in Los Angeles after we had returned from 7 months down in the West Indies, primarily at Guantanamo, Cuba and Puerto Rico and after I got back from Los Angeles there was talk going around the squadron about some Navy commander who had been there talking about getting some of the reserve fighter pilots and all of the AVG pilots had to come out of the reserves. They wouldn't release any of the regulars. He was talking signing up and going to China to fight with Chinese against the Japanese to protect the Burma Road. So that sounded very interesting to me and Tom and Kenny and I were probably only 3 out of 5 pilots in the squadron who were reserve pilots who would qualify for that. So after much soul searching we decided we wanted to do that. and we went up to Rockefeller Center which was the headquarters of a company called CAMCO Central �Aircraft Manufacturing Company, which was a front for the AVG and talked to the people up there and gave us all the information and so forth. FRANK BORING: Let me ask you first of all what did you know about China? About the Chinese at this point? JUDGE OLDER: Very little. Of course I'd never been there. Only what I'd read. I knew there was a war going on there between the Chinese and the Japanese. It started in 1937. I knew the Chinese were being bombed indiscriminately by the Japanese. That's about all I knew. FRANK BORING: Why would you want to go to China? JUDGE OLDER: Primarily the adventure. And to support a good cause. We had gotten very good training in the Marine Corp, gunnery, dive bombing, formation, carrier landings. And we just felt like let's go use this training we've got. See the world. FRANK BORING: Once you made the decision to go the three of you went to CAMCO and met with them what was the actual procedure of getting out of the military. Any difficulty there may not have had to actually join up with the AVG? JUDGE OLDER: Well, we did have difficulty getting out the Marine Corp for the AVG. The first step was to sign a contract with CAMCO then the second step was to put in an application or resignation thru the squadron. And that was turned down. And then it was sent up to the Group Headquarters and that was turned down. Their feeling in both the squadron and the group was just spent a lot of money training you guys to be fighter pilots and now we got you up to a state of readiness and we are not about to turn you lose. From there it went to Washington where it was approved by virtue of an executive order of President Roosevelt that he had signed permitting reserve qualified fighter pilots to resign to join the American Volunteer Group. We were not at war at that time we are �talking now 1941, spring of 1941. We were not at war there was a national emergency which had been imposed in September of 1940 and you couldn't get out of the service without a release or without being allowed to get out. It wasn't a question of just resigning, you had to get the permission from Washington. FRANK BORING: How did you feel about fighting under the flag of a foreign government? JUDGE OLDER: Well, we weren't fighting under the flag of a foreign government. We were an independent group, civilian group, operating independently, but under the Chinese were supplying our housing and our supplies that, but the operational control was totally independent and in the hands of General Chennault who was our commander. FRANK BORING: Once it was approved from Washington what was the reaction of let's say the immediate circle of people that now knew you were leaving and what not and also to your commandant, did you have to check out with him? JUDGE OLDER: Well, I think all of our squadron mates were happy that we were able to do it. I think a lot of them would have liked to have gone with us, but couldn't because they were regular officers. I remember particularly the group operations officer was a Major Sandy Sanderson, old time pilot, great guy, and we had to go in and see him and this is when we were trying to get the permission and he listened to us without a chance of expression for a long time and while we explained to him why we wanted to go and what we were going to be doing and so on and just gave us a steely stare and when it was all over he stood up, put out his hand and said, boys I wish I was going with you. FRANK BORING: You mention in that that you were telling him why what you were going to be doing when you get there. What was actually told to you? What were you going to be doing when you arrived? �JUDGE OLDER: Well, we knew were going to be fighting the Japanese and that time the principal problem was keeping the Burma Road open because the Chinese had closed all the China ports. So that the only way that China could get supplies in was over the Burma Road, which started in Rangoon, Burma. FRANK BORING: I'm sorry I don't think you meant to say the Chinese, the Japanese were cutting off the Burma Road, the Japanese had cut off the Chinese ports. JUDGE OLDER: Oh, all right. FRANK BORING: All right. We'll just start from the very beginning. I'll just ask you the question again. What were you told that what you were going to be doing when you arrived in China? JUDGE OLDER: We were told that we would be flying P40 aircraft against the Japanese principally protecting the Burma Road from Japanese bombers and fighters. And the reason for that was because the Japanese had closed Chinese ports so the only supplies getting into China at that time were coming up from Rangoon, Burma over the Burma Road into western China. Of course the hump was not established at that time. The hump routes. FRANK BORING: Once you were checked out, if you will, finished with the military where was your first place that you went? Where was the first place you went to after you left the military? JUDGE OLDER: After I left. The first place that I went to after I left Quantico was Los Angeles, my home and that happened also to be the place where we were going to pick up the ship to take us over to China. We were around Los Angeles for about a month and then finally went down to Wilmington and got on the Zaandam, which was a Dutch cargo liner, passenger, cargo ship. �FRANK BORING: Let's stay in Los Angeles for a second. Did you have family there? JUDGE OLDER: Yes, my family lived there. FRANK BORING: Ok. Could you tell us what had you told your family about what you were going to be doing? JUDGE OLDER: Well, I told my family with the exception of my brother, my younger brother, I told my family that we were going to China to be flight instructors. I didn't want to tell them I was going to be in combat because it would simply cause a lot of unnecessary worry. I did tell my brother that I was going to be a fighter pilot, fighting the Japanese, and I said if I'm lucky enough to get any of them, I'll write home and call them pigeons. That I shot a pigeon. That was our little code. Well, actually Pearl Harbor came along before we got into combat there was no more necessity for the pigeon code word. FRANK BORING: Once you left Los Angeles did you stop over in San Francisco? JUDGE OLDER: No, from Los Angeles. We left Los Angeles and went directly to Honolulu. From Honolulu to the Philippines, from Philippines to Borneo, then Java. We changed ships in Batavia, which is now Jakarta, and went up to Singapore and then we took a train from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur and bus out to a little port called Port Swettenham and we got on a small British freighter and took a nine day sail up to Rangoon. FRANK BORING: Let's talk a bit about the trip itself. At this point you had met some of the people that you were going to become very close friends with later on in your life. What was your first impression on meeting this gang of guys from all over the country? You were all going there to for basically the same kind of reasons. What was your reaction? �JUDGE OLDER: Well, they were a great bunch of guys. I liked them. You know you feel that comradery of a group all going the same direction for the same purpose and that's what we were doing. We were all volunteers, in other words, nobody was making us go there. We all went there because we wanted to go there. And that makes for a very close knit organization. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 1 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older discusses his background that led him to becoming a pilot, his cadet training in Pensacola, and later joining the American Volunteer Group. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef02d4602893f6598fd6dd7ca31d1566.mp4 3d7ea152b5ae62c99ac9532b5ea867f5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/087aa5f6a9659d98d0022dc160438bbe.pdf a898450179ff952a67f8a9b0b9a49bf7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 9] HERMAN THE GERMAN: The existence and departure of the Flying Tigers – of the original Flying Tigers was a very sad case indeed, but the record they left behind and the record that was published, particularly the entire program we had, where we were experiencing loss after loss after loss of the allies to the Japanese, the Indonesians and whatever, and there the AVG stood as a shining example, that the Japanese were not unbeatable, but slowly people began to believe – we had lost Hong Kong to the allies, we had lost Singapore, which was unbeatable, and the Japanese all managed to take – Indo-China and Dutch New Guinea for example all the way down to Australia. The Flying Tigers were held up as the ones who beat the Japanese at the record level. I do not know what the official level really is but it was in the neighborhood of 12:1 or 13:1 or something. I even heard the figure of 14:1. I do not know what this ratio was, whether it's ratio of pilots killed or pilots lost or it was airplanes lost or whatever, but it was a tremendous ratio and it showed that a small group of volunteers, well led, which was the important thing, well supported by the population on the ground, in feeding them and housing them and everything else, building runways so that they could make it and beat the Japanese, and that was an inspiration used by the American people, used by the American press, used by the Chinese. I couldn't read a Chinese newspaper but I heard it all over that the Flying Tigers were indeed, practically exceptional god-like affair. That of course was not true. �It was a really tough outfit, and although voluntary, some people had left, the tough guys stayed behind and did their job and inspired the American people. No question about it. FRANK BORING: With the help of the Chinese – they were able to do something different in terms of what was going on with the Japanese, the bombing of the Chinese cities. If you could talk to us about that, in particular the affect AVG had in defending the Chinese. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I had moved from Hong Kong in June of 1940 into the Yunnan area. There was Yunnanyi which is slightly west, maybe 40 miles west of Kunming. There was a big flying, central flight training base. I had never seen a single Chinese fighter aircraft by itself in combat with the Japanese. The Japanese came daily and the Chinese had plenty of opportunity, but I have to say that they did not attack the Japanese, except through one anti-craft gun 88 German anti-aircraft gun near Kunming. It was not the Chinese Air Force that did anything. The Chinese training planes were seen departing prior to the arrival of the Japanese. Now I did see Russian equipment in China. I never saw them in combat because they had old Spanish Civil War type equipment in China, like biplanes and light bombers. But I didn't see them in action either except I suddenly heard that they had left and returned to Russia when Germany attacked Russia and the planes were called back and the crews and supporting personnel were called back. So I can only say that were it not for the Flying Tigers having arrived and being trained in Burma prior to World War II and then being available right there in World War II and the Japanese coming over there with their first squadron, unprotected by fighters and losing nearly all their bombers and two days later, the same thing happened. Think, the Flying Tigers were right there and established themselves in the minds of all the Chinese, certainly of the free Chinese. I do not know what was known all over, what news went over to the occupied Chinese, but the free Chinese certainly gave credit to the Flying Tigers being over there, and Colonel Chennault. �FRANK BORING: I'd like to ask you now what you feel was your personal accomplishment in that period of time and how did it affect the rest of your life. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Those are two separate questions of what affect my membership of the AVG was in my life's career and what I thought I may have contributed. I contributed to the AVG the, I believe a little better maintenance and availability of fighter aircraft and I'm quite sure I contributed in several cases to an airplane available in a flight line having gone up and maybe shot down some Japanese aircraft, but that's all as far as I could do, except for training Chinese. I did train a lot of Chinese who sent to me who sent to me another 20 men and another 20 men, on the maintenance of engines and the aircraft. So that may have a far-reaching effect later on when these Chinese stayed with the American military. But in my own life it was a period of getting to be an American, of being associated with America and to be particularly associated with the men who looked you straight in the eye, Colonel Chennault, later General Chennault, who affected me through the whole life, because when I came to America after the war, and told people that I happened to be with the original Flying Tigers, "Oh", they'd say, "You were with General Chennault" and I'd say, "Yes, I was with General Chennault," and I had my passport and my military pass for Flying Tigers to show it, and this practically assured me a job in the aeronautical business at a time when tens of thousands were being laid off after the war. I got a job offer immediately at Douglas Aircraft where I was and at General Aircraft where I was then later. Having worked with General Chennault, with the original Flying Tigers on my passport an entry, take it anywhere, which I didn't recognize at the time, completely as later, but it was certainly an important, the most important thing in my life. FRANK BORING: That is – in terms of your association with Chennault, affect you, in terms of the things that you decided to do the rest of your life. �HERMAN THE GERMAN: I'm trying to tell you how I personally felt of having been associated with the Flying Tigers. The personal acquaintance-ship with General Chennault was, could have been independent of the Flying Tigers because he happened to be my one removed next door neighbor, and we were getting along very well, although we did not talk very much, and I didn't talk very much. I couldn't and he didn't. But certain of the pilots of the Flying Tigers were very impressive. This Tex Hill, Ed Rector, as my Squadron Commander, there were some of those people who were really, truly effective in my life in believing in people. On the other hand, a lot of drunken crew chiefs and non-working all the time the way I was taught to do as I was expected to do. They kind of disappointed me for some time, but not all of them at all. There were some wonderful guys down as crew chiefs also, and propeller repair men and so on. But there were some, there was a difference between the pilots and the pilot's operating and the pilot's behavior and the crew chief personnel. Now maybe the pilots were drinking at nights too in a great mass, and I assume they did, but I was not aware of that. What I was aware of was that Tex Hill and Ed Rector, and some squadron commanders or squadron members, flying members of the AVG and they are wonderful people, and they gave me a lot of confidence that American military will do the job to beat finally the Germans and whatever else they had to beat down there. FRANK BORING: How did that affect you as the man, how did that experience during that period of time – where there any characteristics that came out of there that have carried on either in terms of your competence, in terms of your feeling more comfortable with Americans, or ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I thought out there that the mass of Americans, of course there could be a lot of other people, that the most of the crew chief level and ground support personnel of the Flying Tigers, were not working as hard as what they should be working, very frankly, and I decided right then and there, that wouldn't happen to me, if I go, �I'll go all out or quit, and this affected me, I'm sure. But on the other hand, the pilots I have always seen ready, I do not know when they were not ready, but I know they were ready lying on their deck chairs next to the airplanes, all day long, waiting for the command to go up in the air and there was never any hesitation of any of those. They were the high type guys I liked to emulate. FRANK BORING: I've got one question that actually has nothing to do with AVG (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: There's not much to say. Looking back at those six months, I was so busy with myself and my job of maintaining those aircraft around the clock and doing the very best I could, that I had little time to think about what would happen six months later or a year later or twenty years later or forty years later. It is now that I was there about 50 years ago, and it always stuck with me that the Flying Tigers and General Chennault. I often think what would Chennault say about what I am going to do now. Will he be approving of it and I know he did, because his death bed so to say, less than a month before he died, I visited him in a Royal Marine Hospital, and I saw him and the General said, "I read about you that you are now General Manager of the jet engine department of General Electric and I'm very pleased and very proud of you. I want to congratulate you and I said, "General, it was your influence which made me have the confidence to get going, and you got me to America and you helped me all along the line, and I thank you very, very much and I wish you wouldn't smoke", because he was sitting in this bed and smoking, and he said, "I'm going to die anyhow in a few days, I might as well enjoy it to the last." But General Chennault was the big figure in my life. I met many big figures, many heads, I met five presidents of the United States personally, but he was still one of my idols, top idols. I'm sorry, I wish I could tell you more. FRANK BORING: That was excellent. (Inaudible) �HERMAN THE GERMAN: Looking back at General Chennault leaving China on July 20, 1942, no excuse me … FRANK BORING: The date's not even that important, just say leaving China, that would be good. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was going to say less than three weeks before the war was over. Looking back at when General Chennault who I can truly define as a personal friend of mine, and a major influence, left the area where he fought for eight years, less than a month before the war ended and having heard rumors that he may have been asked to leave an to retire, was a shock. But the worst shock was that when Japan surrendered in a big ceremony when General MacArthur was there, when the prisoners, the big top prison officers, American officers had been released by the Japanese and joined on the battleship Azores for peace treaty signing, and General Chennault was not there. I was really shook up and somewhere I can assure you my whole squadron, and I'm not the only squadron, there was squadron after squadron, we all felt Chennault was our old man, and the new group of people coming in may have been very nice but to see to it that General Chennault is one of the top men signing the peace treaty with the Japanese being there in charge with this [?] was a real shock and a very, very great disappointment. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I met General Chennault in his office as a future commander of an American volunteer group, he had this simple desk. There was nothing fancy about his office. It was all work, we talked about work, we talked about responsibility and the importance in life, and I taught the General, at that time when he was not a General, that I was brought up this way, in a German home, it is first, the work, then the pleasure, if there is time for pleasure. But we got pleasure out of work, and when I became an apprentice for three years prior to going to engineering college, I had the same �thing, it was work first, and you work your fanny off under miserable conditions. You finish your work and the aircraft runs or the automobile runs, and everything's all right you get pleasure and satisfaction out of working on it. I saw this with the pilots. What I saw of the pilots, or most of them, except Pappy Boyington or some of those exceptions, very few exceptions, I saw them always ready, always ready to fly, whenever they were told, "You, you, you – take off now", they're gone, they're working. I'm sure they got their satisfaction of shooting down airplanes and painting another Japanese flag on the side of the airplane that shot down another plane. I did not see the same thing unanimously with the enlisted personnel, from the enlisted personnel, but some of them also were very conscientious and very good but there were some of them who just would not make it in good old Germany down there, they would fall by the wayside because it was not work first and then the pleasure, and that's what Chennault saw in me and I saw in the General, and that's why we got along very well with each other. When I look back at the six months with the Flying Tigers and the problems of repairing under terrible conditions without a hangar, without a light, without real tools, without any spare parts, and when I see what was done and the net result was that the whole Chinese free nation admired what was done under those tough conditions, then I don't mind at all having worked that hard and I've continued to this throughout my life, all the way and to the last day, and the last day I closed the door and that was it. I think a lot of people would be better off when they think, first the work and then the pleasure, and I still stick with it, and have some problems sometimes at home. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v09 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 9 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses the effect the AVG had in defending the Chinese people and his personal accomplishments during that period in his life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8ec9025e032842b01796ba2bacd7a415.mp4 0e4a511e2f0093d9647791497f2fad5a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b774e3eb5018a6a2c0a5c59b38272bf.pdf 530912dafc4cc12aef1bcc0ed80c18c0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] FRANK BORING: Start it off by saying… (inaudible). HERMAN THE GERMAN: I believe it was about two weeks, maybe two to four weeks before July 4, '42 that P-40E's began to arrive in China. Whether this was in anticipation of the regular air force personnel was supposed to come in or whether it was just because a B was not powerful enough, had many disadvantages, I do not know. But in any case, we fed 'em in, they just suddenly were there, they were painted just like the B's and we maintained them in the same manner, which I described before, namely, whatever a pilot wrote in was fixed, whatever was not written in was not fixed. But I know that the pilots who ferried the E across the Hump from Burma into Kunming, spoke highly of the E, what a difference 100 horse power made. I could never imagine that although I was an engineer, that 100 horse power would make a huge difference for an airplane which weighs about the same as each other, but had 100 horse power more, which is 10 % more power available. Higher altitude, faster speed, safer crossing the Hump in bad weather and so we obviously liked the E. The visual signs [?] whether the machine guns were six machine guns, three of each in each wing of the E, 50 caliber, or whether there were only four 50 calibers and two 30 calibers firing through the propeller hub. That was a big sign from our point of view. Otherwise I could not tell any difference of it. The engines were Allison engines, �fundamentally the same, they just made a little higher pressure ratio, which is not visible from the outside why this happened. But I believe I mentioned the exhaust stacks which were flat in stacks to depress the collar of the exhaust flame in order to make it more difficult for following an aircraft down, and use it as a target. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned earlier how you were able to raise the airplanes up so you could work on …… HERMAN THE GERMAN: …… the lining? FRANK BORING: There was an incident in which the Japanese could ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yes, I happened to be there. We couldn't quite trust our eyes, nor trust our ears when we …… FRANK BORING: It's very important where it was, if you can give us the context of where it was and the airfield and everything else. HERMAN THE GERMAN: It was in Kweilin, where maybe a week prior to the dissolution of the AVG, Japanese fighters came over there and dropped a whole slew of leaflets, saying, "We, the Imperial fliers of the Japanese Air Force, challenge you, the fliers of the American Volunteer Group to a sportsmanlike duel at such and such, I think it was 3 o'clock in the afternoon on July the 1st or 2nd or maybe June 30th", I can't recall exactly when. But most Americans who read this paper, of course, did not believe it. They said, "This is a trick of the Japanese." And word came that General Chennault had read this paper and said, "You'd better be ready because they will be there at 3 o'clock sharp, and by George, the Japanese were. Our planes were up waiting. He had reinforced this one squadron in Kweilin with additional planes from another location, I think it was either Liuchow or Ling Ling or Hengyang, from somewhere we had twice as many planes, and so we had never been before that many planes together, and he had them all in groups, getting up there in case they do come earlier that he had planes in the air. Of �course, they used up fuel which was very valuable. Then the next layer, the next half a dozen, the next half a dozen went up, and by George, I believe sixteen Japanese fighter planes of the I-97 type came over and we had about 24 planes in the air. There was a wild turkey shoot wherever you looked, right or left, high or low, one plane following the other one. It was a real going wild thing around down there, and when we all wound up, we had lost I believe something like four planes altogether, and the Japanese lost 16 or 18 planes. It was a good ratio, but not quite up to our normal standard, but there were so many Japs that they were just hanging on to each American plane down there. It was a great, great turkey shoot. FRANK BORING: I wonder if you will – about trying to convince the AVG to stay on. HERMAN THE GERMAN: General Bissell had come over and spoken, I believe in three locations where AVG's were, trying to persuade them to stay over there and enlist into the military offering them some pretty good rank promotion compared to what they were in the United States before they left. I did not attend any of the meetings because it never occurred to me that I would be one of them who had a choice in this matter, and I thought come July 4, I will be out and I'll be either going back to my garage, or do something else. So I did not attend the meeting, but the boys who did attend the meeting came back furious, and said I had considered staying over here for a while, but with that man in charge I shall not stay over here. This was the unanimous thing I heard about General Bissell, and I don't know whether I – did I mention to you the General Bissell thing? Yeah, you had that in here. But this confirmed what I heard about Bissell all along the line. I know General Chennault did not get along with him because Bissell short-stopped various supplies which were destined for China from the United States, and they did not arrive, they did not come through, and the reason was, we were told that General Bissell he needed it down for the counter �offensive which would ultimately come down from Burma and push the Japanese into the sea. FRANK BORING: Tell us if he was…. (inaudible)? HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yeah, we had one day in which – on July the 4th or 5th I believe it was, Fox movie was there with a team to take pictures of those AVG's who stayed behind, who voluntarily stayed longer in China, and the P-40 was put in this background to that thing, and I did not want to participate in the little military show they had planned because I told them I had no basic training in American military and I didn't know what to do, and they told me that the German and the American system was identical. It was some German General who came over here in the late 1800 and something – 1870 and trained the American in the German system, they were both identical, and so I said okay, you guys, if that's what you want. Now on the right and left of me, I had a friend of mine who translated what it was the commands were, because commands,. unless you are a real soldier, you don't understand what it means "Er right, er right", and they all know what it means and I didn't understand what he said, so they translated to me, in the time between the initial command. Each command has two parts, one an alert and the second, the execution, when to do it, like, "Aaaabout" and then they know already what comes and they tell me, "Turn around, face." At "face", you swing around, and everything worked fine. Our ranks spread, our ranks went further apart, forward and aft, and I was standing in the middle of the grouping pretty well alone, and when the command came, "About face", I read about it but "turn round", but the German system is on the left heel to the left side and the American system on the right heel, turn around the other side and I noticed that when I was nearly all around, I started swinging back again the other way, and Fox had to cut out that segment down there. And I have never since that time participated in any military training. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear them being called the Flying Tigers? �HERMAN THE GERMAN: We did not have the V for Victory and a tiger with wings which was said right away was from Walt Disney, that Walt Disney created it. They showed up about in March, I believe sometime in March and I cannot tell you whether they were papers which you – what do you call the papers which you [?] all right, the German pictures, "Ap Sie Bild" which means you pull the cover off the [?] underneath, because they were all so identical. I don't think they were really painted by anyone in China, they just filled in more and more and more of them, and pretty soon they all had the Flying Tiger insignia on them. But then a few weeks when the first E's came, before the E's, they had already another insignia on there which was – the China Air Task Force, had a different insignia on and then later the 14th Air Force again changed the insignia. FRANK BORING: Where did you first hear though – decal is the word you're looking for – the AVG being called the Flying Tigers or anything you may remember? HERMAN THE GERMAN: It just fed in very slowly. We were sent in some copies of American newspapers, it was reported an aerial victory which we had frequently, of so many planes shot down against the loss of only so many. Incidentally, when you talk about the loss ratio, you have to remember that the Japanese fought over enemy territory, we did not fight over enemy territory, maybe occupied territory, but not over actual enemy territory, and I do not know – this may be of very great interest to the listener, of a single case in which any American who bailed out, had to bail out in enemy territory, was ever turned over to the Japanese, although the Japanese some time, maybe during the AVG days, maybe a little later, offered a $10,000, U.S. dollar reward for any American turned in, dead or alive, and I understand nobody was ever turned in by the Chinese. They stuck completely with the Americans. �FRANK BORING: Could you tell us, speaking as (inaudible) reference to TV about the fact that American fliers that were shot down, there was never an incidence ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Never was known to me and I was pretty well familiar later. FRANK BORING: Okay, and then also make sure about the $10,000 reward and about the Chinese people. HERMAN THE GERMAN: There were, of course, several of our planes which were [?] very badly that the pilot felt he could not return safely on to landing field in free China and they had to bail out and pull the ripcord. They went down. I do not know of a single case where the pilot where the pilot was so seriously hurt in the bale out process that he could not make it home, or that he died. The Japanese had offered a $10,000, U.S. dollar reward in 1942 which was a heck of a lot of money in those, it's still a lot of money in these days, but a hell of a lot of money in those days, for the turning over of an American pilot, dead or alive, to the Japanese. Whether they would have paid I do not know, but in any case, I was quite well familiar with what was going on and would have probably heard about any instance, and I am not aware of any single instance, in which a Chinese who were fully aware of that reward, turned over any American to the Japanese. FRANK BORING: Two weeks in which American military personnel were now coming in on a regular basis and the transition period was occurring where people you had – please give us your candid review ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I will give you a candid review – I will give you my candid opinion, which will be very disappointing because I did not know any difference except that my friends left, there were fewer and fewer, nobody said goodbye, there were no big official farewell deals, and the feeding in of the Americans was done very smoothly, which was suddenly, regular air force personnel with �officer rank and enlisted men rank, and I remember the first day a planeload full of G.I.'s came in while we AVG's were still there, and they knew nothing, they were frightened stiff, therefore they were worried because this was new world territory, we were the old timers, and same as the officers who I began to know very well, the engineering officers who really didn't know anything about airplanes. Then they asked me, what do you here, what should I do there, so it was a very smooth transition and I heard no big farewell, except that pilot Petach got killed, and we felt terribly sorry that he had just got married before and ended two weeks extension to get killed, was just really tough luck. It's tough luck all the time when you get killed, but to get killed on a voluntary extension of two weeks, was just unfortunate. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: Being on a crew chief level was not as familiar, of course, with the pilot's home life, their personal life, but we all knew Nurse Petach, we have seen her before, or the name prior to her name whatever it was, and that she married pilot Petach. Petach was one of those few pilots who voluntarily stayed two weeks longer to help the U.S. Air Force integrate smoothly, transition the whole matter, he really did a very loyal thing for this country, and when we heard that he got shot down during these last two weeks, two days, after having just been married, and after I believe the story came around that Mrs. Petach expected a baby, we felt terribly sorry about it. FRANK BORING: The transition was smooth but in fact, there were some difficulties in the sense that there were some personnel coming in that really didn't know how to work on the airplanes that you were working on, that actual problems that were occurring in the transition period. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I can only now tell you that in the transition period, I met the engineering officer, he was a Second Lieutenant of the U.S. army air corps and he indeed did not know what to do nor did I expect �him to know what to do. He arrived from the United States in a war area, and here we old timers who had gone through the war for six months and knew already what to do, and so he very properly asked me and I helped him and we worked very closely together. I flew with him in a twin-engined plane to various other locations to pick up some spare parts and what parts to pick and where to pick them up from, and I did not see any difficulty. That does not mean that there were no difficulties, I personally have not seen but a smooth transition from the AVG into the air force. FRANK BORING: At this point, if you would, I would like, where do you think the AVG fits in terms of history, in terms of the Chinese point of view, the American point of view, that small one year period of which you were all – where does the AVG fit, in terms of that. HERMAN THE GERMAN: The AVG, as such, is not really known, was not really known by the time the AVG left as AVG. The word Flying Tigers took over so completely and was so popular by the Chinese population, by the American press, and by the Life Magazine which wrote an article about the Flying Tigers, which we got in China there, that the 14th Air Force which followed later, or the China Air Task Forces followed at first, then the 14th Air Force, tried very hard to absorb the name Flying Tigers, and indeed many men who were interviewed by the American press, said that he was with the Flying Tigers and this is what the newspaper wrote, one of the Flying Tigers while actually he was not one of the original Flying Tigers. I believe there was a major disagreement in the States later about Flying Tigers and the follow on military. As a matter of fact the U.S. government did not want to give credit in terms of overseas time to those members of the original Flying Tigers, and it was not considered an American outfit, it was the Flying Tigers of the Chinese Air Force. But that, of course, is a bunch of nonsense, but that's the way it really went. I, myself, personally, wanted to ultimately get American citizenship, but they said you were with the Flying Tigers of the Chinese Air Force, you were not �with the American Air Force, so that was the official part. But when it suited them, the other way around, they were… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 8 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses the meeting with General Bissell regarding an extended stay of the AVG and the identity of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a06ff47f8daa71bc4bd33de5b7184b1.mp4 6d5037c463ccd839311a9ebdeb447c30 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0109e6d3cab39e1eb615a9adf9de5d40.pdf 6edd93831f01d94ba8f2bc08e35f4eef PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] HERMAN THE GERMAN: When we had that third alarm out there, we were out at the airport, our P-40's were up in the air, we all ground crew stood there, near a ditch to jump in if necessary, and we watched the formation of the Japanese come in. They were unescorted by any Japanese fighter aircraft, but they flew their V9 formation or whatever, nine and eighteen planes, whatever it was, I think the twenties or it was nine airplanes came I believe at that time, one of the Vees and as the Americans start diving onto the Japanese, we could hear this screaming of the American engine as from a higher altitude they gained on the Japanese. Furthermore, the Japanese, I believe I mentioned this once to you, kept on flying to the target as directed. If they lost one plane or two or three on the way, they still would come, and so then they had to make their turn after that airfield and that was the place where the Americans did get, and could get, and should have gotten the Japanese planes, and they did, and four planes went down, smoking and another one exploded in the air, others smoked oil and spun down into the ground, and that, of course, was a great moment for us on the ground, and all the Chinese cheering, now they had seen the first Japanese bombers go down, four of them down there altogether on that flight of nine I believe, eight were shot down because right out of sight, another ten miles further, another twenty miles further, they shot down another of these Japanese planes. And when the pilots came down, the crew chief ran out, the other guys' crew chiefs and the Chinese �came out and they all hugged each other and there was great excitement for the first time. Then the Japanese came two days later, I believe it was two days later that there was a second raid, and this system of one time something, then coming back two days later, the Japanese maintained stubbornly, be it over Chungking or Kweilin or wherever it is, but they came. We knew two days later they would come again and that helped us a great deal to quickly perform whatever maintenance we had to do, they came two days later and by god, there they were again. The alarm system, the alert system incidentally was absolutely superior in China. It was primitive but plenty of space available. The Japanese had to fly over hundreds of miles from where they left to the target then back again, so they were exposed, they had really a disadvantage. We never flew, during the AVG days, over non-Chinese territory, it was all over Chinese territory, except Burma actually. FRANK BORING: Give us if you will, the second time the crew chiefs and the Chinese …………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course when they came back it's two days later, we had never known that they do that, that they come back two days later, so here they came again, and again, no fighter escort, and again only twin-engined bombers, and they were good but particularly fast, heavy, they did their job all right but Japanese pilots were not there for them, they did bravely what they were supposed to do, but the Americans got the second time again, this time they knew already from the first time, they got another eight planes also, six planes, or five planes, I do not know exactly how many planes, but there again, of course, it's the same thing. Now we waited two days later, would they come again, but this time they didn't come, and it was the last time they came without a fighter escort as far as I'm concerned. I am not seeing any more big air attack, massive attack without 60–70 Zeros zig-zagging over and trying to protect them against American planes which they did. FRANK BORING: After the second ……… �HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, not during the AVG days. FRANK BORING: Where did you go next? What was the reaction of the Chinese population? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The Chinese of course delighted, they had seen this before and they knew the Americans now, the word spread quickly, the Americans are here, and the P-40 had not yet, I believe the P-40 had a shark's mouth painted on, it was not yet called the flying Tigers, did not yet have the Disney Vee with the tiger with the little wings on there. So they had shark's mouths on and there were three squadrons, only the one squadron came up first during to the December 20 raid, December 22 raid I believe was the first Pursuit squadron which was there, we then moved in as we lost Burma, we as the British, lost Burma and with it the Americans lost their base, they also brought their planes up to Kunming. In the meantime, the first squadron was moved up to Chungking to Pai [?] Chi Ye, is the airport outside Chungking, and I was asked to go with a convoy, drive in a big truck, international, I think, trucks they were, up with the equipment up to Pai [?] Chi Ye. We were barely in Pai [?] Chi Ye setting up the same would be now in learning to set up, in Kunming how to set up the plane if necessary and camouflage the huts and so on, I got orders to move to Kweilin, and there we were, we flew, instead of driving down we flew with one of CNAC's planes and had been drafted I guess, a Chinese pilot, a very good Chinese pilot, I forgot his name right now, but he was very good, he stayed there a long time, he was well known and well liked, and he flew us into Kweilin, and Kweilin had been bombed once before but not badly, and as we moved in, of course, the Japanese came, because Kweilin was relatively close to Canton, on a straight railroad line so that you could bomb Kweilin also at night, but the Japanese did not during the AVG days, bomb Kweilin at night, this came later. FRANK BORING: Was that pilot Moon Chen by any chance? �HERMAN THE GERMAN: Right. Moon Chen, that's right. FRANK BORING: The next combat that you saw, were you again exposed to the Japanese bombers coming over? HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yeah, oh yeah. FRANK BORING: Okay, let's talk about the next incident, tell us where it is and when. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Kweilin, Kweilin. FRANK BORING: Give us a date also. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I could not give you the day, but we were down… FRANK BORING: The year. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yes, early '42 of course. Early '42 Kweilin and all the six bombers were shot down during that raid, I know one raid was June 30, or another raid was before that but they came every few weeks, some Japanese planes came over then they came sometimes with fighters only, to strafe and they did burn up some American planes which did not get in the air, I think this was during the AVG days. We looked at one of the wrecks, it looks miserable. FRANK BORING: Don't be so concerned with the dates and the times and all that. What we're looking for is getting the (inaudible), don't worry about how many planes …… HERMAN THE GERMAN: After we moved to Kweilin, nothing happened in Chungking. We were only there a few days, we got also rid of Kweilin. Kweilin is a lovely town which has a very nice river and mountains and a lot of [?] farms and we had a wonderful runway which had been built �by the Chinese between the narrow mountains, it was very well protected. There were some very good caves which Colonel Chennault occupied with a big map inside, and a big circle of Kweilin and 50 miles, 100 miles, 150 miles, which was plotted by the Chinese who had earphones and connections with listening on the way in Canton and Kweilin and so we could follow very closely how many, where the Japs were. There was never the exact number, that sounds like 20 planes or 15 planes or someone said, "I know the number". It was above the clouds but the sound was followed through and was plotted along, and we were old soldiers at that point. We had been bombed a lot, I had been bombed with the rest of them, because I had been bombed before the AVG came up, but then we became just routine, we would not leave – normally we would have left the airport if we had another 15 or 30 minutes to go, but this time now, we were soldiers and we were paid to be soldiers, and if necessary, get killed in the process. But you stayed there and you swung around and you watched them and you prayed for your American pilots and our pilots, which at that time we had remaining, that were alive that were all excellent, really were very, very good, and we all cheered for them and we could watch them, particularly when there was dog-fighting developed which we hoped would not take place, but was okay until I got that Zero in flight, and I said no more dogfights at that point. Up to that point, the American flight instructions I guess were dogfighting, although Chennault himself was kind of worried about this dogfighting business in general versus the smaller, lighter Japanese planes. FRANK BORING: (inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: The hectic day operations began very early in the morning, the planes were still dispersed so that they couldn't be exposed for night bombing, then we checked them out, then we fixed whatever had to be fixed up, brought it back onto the flight line. Then came a period of rest, not hectic at all, the truck came with sandwiches and eggs, because that's all you got in China was eggs and �chickens and chickens and eggs, that's all you got all the time. A truck came with breakfast for the pilots and the crews and some coffee. Now we stayed out there by the airfield, ''til word came okay, which Chennault had plotted with either Adair or with whomever, to attack now Canton or to hit that air base. They got intelligence information, the Japanese got more new planes from Japan to Canton, so they said, all right we'll leave at 1:30 and these times were given us ground crews very late, so to avoid any possible leakage of anything, or God knows what we'll want, and then we helped the planes in the air, and then again we had rest for about an hour and a half and by that time we saw on a map, on a plotting map there, "returning", and then someone said "how many, how many, returned". We knew 18 left or 15 left or 12 left, rarely that many, rarely that many. I think at most five or six aircraft – that was all we could afford at that point, and to keep the other six in reserve, that if they come over and follow our returning planes, that is usually the technique, then the enemy comes and follows right in, just as they come down to land and to refuel and can't stay in the air anymore, then the enemy comes down, so we have to get the second bunch up there and they are ready to get up before they could hurt those planes on the ground, and that you did, you stayed until it got kind of dark and you say, "well, they won't come any more now, let's go back home, or let's taxi the planes back". So the pilots went home again to listen to this one record player we had, an old hand crank record player in the Kweilin area, for the pilots, where they were a little fancier than the enlisted personnel and all the crew chiefs, so to speak, we took the planes away, stowed them all, then I, who was driving the truck, went from plane to plane to pick up the crew chief who put it there and said, "Are you okay?" and so and so and would slowly got all the people together, we got back home again, listened to the record again, that one record, "Ramona, da da da da da da da", that was our standard record, played over and over again with that old needle on there. And then we waited either for a night attack which did not come in the AVG days, but came later in the military, but waited for the next day. At 4:30, up again, out back to the field, so you had your seven day �occupation, never a day off or anything like that. It was around the clock. FRANK BORING: What was the morale like of the crews, given the fact that this was a daily grind, seven days and constant pressure of attack and whatnot? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was surprised at first when I first heard about several pilots and several crew chiefs leaving around March or April. I thought it was terrible, on the other hand I had absolutely no idea what their contractual agreement was that they would stay, which I found out later that they were just dishonorably discharged. Why they left, what went on I was not a party to it whatsoever, but, directly nor indirectly I just know that certain people left, how they got home, if they got home, if they desired to get home, I don't know because the word came that in the meantime, Americans in Iran are building big supply centers for the Russians, and that now they are looking for American mechanics to work on Iran's side to help the aircraft either return to the States or fly to Russia, and so I assume that they thought they would make it good money there, which they may have gotten as not the regular military. I assume that the military in America cannot draft you unless you are on the soil of the United States, which is, I think, rather stupid. I think under the German system, if you're an American you get drafted, that's it. But here in American you have to be on American soil, there's is Congress Act so and so. So otherwise, the morale was good, they all waited for July 4th to come around, and when I myself knew that my days were numbered, it never occurred to me that I might stay in the military, or be accepted by the military, I had never been to the United States, and so I saw the General on the 2nd of July, I believe it was the 2nd, I said, "Colonel, I thank you very, very much for your help, it was very interesting. I'll go back to Kunming to my garage". He said, "No, you won't", I said, "What do you mean I won't" and he pulled out of his pocket a pink piece of paper [?] and "You have permission to enlist, Herman Neumann as Staff Sergeant, so and so and so and so into the military" So I �said, "Thank you very much, I will stay here", and I was promoted immediately to Technical Sergeant, then Master Sergeant. FRANK BORING: Were you present during the two week period after the finishing of the ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course, of course I was, right at Kweilin. I was there when within the two weeks following July 4th, several of the Americans volunteered to stay over for two weeks. I should have mentioned to you that the Chinese at Kweilin gave us a huge town party which was a party that we were picked up by trucks and they had beautiful girls from Hong Kong and from wherever, each soldier was escorted by one Chinese girl and by God, there was real excitement and then the city gave a big dinner and a banquet of Chinese food and desert, and some singers, some children playing there, and then a speech in English, thanking the Americans for all they did for Kweilin and hoping they'd have a safe return and wishing them the very, very best. The Kweilin citizens were really wonderful, so was Kunming too. Chungking I think was too big to be that personal, but Kweilin was a very personal matter, and they certainly appreciated that. During these two weeks, it was just the US Air Force began to come in, and there was a Lt. Col. Holloway, Bruce K. Holloway. I believe he came quite early. He became our group commander and Bob Scott, Robert Scott, who wrote the book called, "God is my Copilot" maybe he preceded him. I do not know exactly how this was, but we didn't see the difference, it just went on the same way. American pilots came in, I got suddenly a 2nd Lt. as engineering officer who knew nothing about an aircraft, who immediately took me aside, and said, "Sergeant, I know nothing about airplanes, will you take me now and tell me what we should do". And so it went, this was what the professional military came in. This man came back as a major, a second round into China, and then I saw him in Vietnam as a full colonel. I personally have never heard about Gen. Bissell, except that Gen. Bissell came to try to recruit American Volunteer Group people about a week or ten days before July 4th, 1942, and Gen. Bissell �was a brigadier general at that time, commander of the 10th air force in India and our unit was approached to be in China under the command of Gen. Bissell. Those people who were still over there, the 250 people, loved Col. Chennault, who was offered a generalship, but deliberately a day later than Gen. Bissell and Bissell then had priority that we or he would have been under the command of Gen. Bissell, although they gave us the title China Air Task Force beginning July 5th, that didn't help very much, no-one could stand Bissell, and not only did we not like Gen. Bissell, but the little Chinese kids, standing along the side of the road, holding up a finger, saying "Piss on Bissell, piss on Bissell." They didn't know what they were saying. He came over and saw all the kids saying "Piss on Bissell" down there, it must have been quite a depressing view and I don't think he ever came back again. And he was not sorry when Chennault got his own command in the 14th air force. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 7 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes the combats he experienced and the morale of the crews, in additon to his experience during the final days of the AVG becoming a Technical Sergeant and later a Master Sergeant. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c0fc6c7bb5ed75af0939022db2ef0533.mp4 e96f44c2c2169589be5c0274748872c5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc12026d8c6115dc15f18c8242943dbc.pdf d86e208d6ef5788a12dc3dbb27644879 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] HERMAN THE GERMAN: ……… The repairs necessary on the aircraft of the American Volunteer Group consisted of two parts. One, due to enemy action like bullet holes in the fuselage, and the other one was fundamentally in the design of the Curtis airplane which had a retractable landing gear, which was just modern at that time, but often got stuck and so did not work, and so between landing gear operation, landing gear which had to turn, which in later aircraft was just in and out, the American system was with wheels and you had to rotate it and then fold it back into the rear, and this mechanism was a very complicated one, and which was later abandoned as the war went along. But landing gear problems and bullet hole problems, plus instrument failures. A lot of the instruments of altitude or speed, or engine RPM, that means how fast does the engine turn, a lot of those instruments failed much prematurely than they should have failed. But a bullet hole in the fuselage was somethin' which, of course, you couldn't help. This was due to – you developed a fighting tactics and in order not to fight with the Japanese, not to give them a chance to get behind you. However the American aircraft, a P-40 had armor plating behind the pilot's seat, and had self-sealing fuel tanks. This is inside a sticky stuff, which when it's penetrated by fuel, will swell up and close up automatically. This is what the Japanese planes incidentally, did not have at the beginning of the war. They had no armor-plating, they were therefore much lighter, armor plating is �very heavy, and had no self-sealing tanks, therefore they had much bigger fuel capacity. In the same space, they could put all fuel rather than an inch thick layer all-around of cover against leaking fuel. And so the Japanese aircraft weighed about one half of that of an American aircraft, 4,300 lbs. – I happened to know because I put one together later – for the same horse power of engine. And therefore, the Japanese pilot had a much easier time to climb steeply, to climb faster, to fly higher, to do all kinds of things. One thing a Japanese plane could not do as compared to the American plane, was to dive. A Japanese plane is so light, that when they start diving, they start wobbling, the wings, and the wings started shaking, and an American plane is solid like a rock. When that pilot goes on a nose down there, he goes down except for the danger of over speed, if you over speed, then you have to pull the engine out, and if the pilot pushes too fast, he goes down too fast. But bullet hole riveting – we didn't do a beautiful job, it wouldn't win a prize in a beauty contest, but it meant one man crawling into the fuselage which was very difficult and another man with a hand drill, we had no electric equipment, was drilling holes through it, putting a patch on it, cutting it out, where did we get it from? Where did we get the metal from? Simple things like metals. We had a wreck, and then we had another wreck, and maybe a plane was shot down. Maybe twenty miles away which is a long distance in China which had no highways, and you'd strip it, either drag it by buffaloes or ox cart, bring it in, then take it all apart to make little shelves to look like [?] or having shelves for some spare parts, anything which we possibly could use, including the metal, to cut up some metal. Another bad thing were tires. The runways were so rough in China, all from big rocks, next layer was smaller rocks, and on top finally, gravel, which was chopped up by women, 10,000 women sitting down there. Then the propeller blast blasted those little gravels in the rear, and the first thing to go are the radiators. You have an oil cooler, you have an engine, liquid coolers, not water but it is Prestone, they call it, a liquid which can go a little higher temperature, and they started to leak. You couldn't get any spare parts on any radiator coolers because if any �crashed, they were the first to go. The propeller goes, the landing gear goes, and the radiators go. The rest of the blade may still be okay. And so we strip it one by one and have one hangar clean which is done, and then another one, and we kept through the six months of operation, pretty well. By that time already P-40E's came in and the last two weeks prior to the takeover by the China Air Task Force, spare parts began to come in for the P-40E. FRANK BORING: During the ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, how shall I get the sentence going? FRANK BORING: If you didn't know of any, or didn't see ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, I did not know any failures because of that, pilot error, yes. And when the AVG left and I stayed right in Kweilin, the rest of the group, of course, left for the United States and only 34 altogether members stayed, including some of the pilots and three squadrons split up. There were about three or four per squadron which stayed in there and I was left with four planes in Kweilin all by myself. They said, "See what you can do with it", then the first American regular mechanic came over there who later worked for American Airlines in Tulsa. We became good friends. FRANK BORING: Mechanical things that had to be done to taxi, take off, the instruments ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: The P-40's as we said before, were the only planes the AVG had where the same standard equipment as the next plane, which happened to be a north American P51, which was a very good plane. The pilot had the stick, of course, to control, had a trigger on the stick to shoot, and we mechanics, we crew chiefs as I called it, it sounded a little better, every morning and every evening, taxied the plane into a hidden area and in the morning at 4:30, we went out on trucks, which usually I drove, the other mechanics sitting in the rear, because there was no gasoline in the truck. The truck was �driven with gas, you had to pre-heat that thing to get gas cooking and then get gas inhaled into the engine rather than vapor of gasoline, you couldn't do that. And then we'd run the engines up in their [?], watched the color of the exhaust flames of the individual stacks and you could see at night when it's dark or in the evening or early in the morning, when you enriched the mixture which is inhaled by the engine, which you do normally for take-off, during take-off, you fly enriched. Then you cruise, you pull the mixture control, they pull that back, it's a separate lever, mixture control, and you can watch the individual flames, the color of the flames. If they are worked properly and how each cylinder in itself works, the same will be done two times on a right mag, which is the magneto on the engine side, the other one on the magneto on the outside, so there are two mags. The pilot switches to right, left, then takes off with both, both magneto's on both. The mixture's on rich, you want to have a nice, big, yellowish, reddish flame coming out of each exhaust stack. If that does not happen, you look at the clock and see if you have time enough to change a spark plug because that's the only thing that you can do in a great hurry. To take an engine apart and put it together again, is a matter which takes anywhere from five days to six days, working around the clock and the plane is out of commission. We had no spare engines whatsoever to shove another engine in. Furthermore, it may interest you that it took seven to eight hours to replace an engine in an American plane. It took forty minutes in a Japanese plane. And this is one fundamental thing which the Japanese had done much better. All electrical connections in American planes had to be safety wired and screwed to get at each individually. All the fuel lines, all the pressure lines, all the temperature devices and all the instruments which maybe amounted to 25 to 30 between the fire wall which is ahead of the pilot and the engine sticking out. It took about 20–25 minutes for the Japanese who with one lever, pulled all connections that had been stationary here, hinged on the other side, put down, had to snap on and that's the whole thing. So we have not done such amazing work here in America. I hate to say it but, I tell you, the German aircraft was like the Japanese, the �Japanese copied from the Germans the same system of getting it together. I believe the British were better, but finally you may – it may not be part of your story – the engines were changed to Rolls Royce, the P-40's later got Rolls Royce engines, no more American, Allison got out of it. FRANK BORING: If you could physically show us in terms of what needed to be done. You said about the gauges and you talked about the flames coming out, what else needed to be checked? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The other things to be checked are very difficult for any mechanic on the ground to see. It depends on the report by the pilot, on his prior flight, what does not work in the air, since we have the airplane sitting on the ground, and the only thing we can watch are the flames and running. We can't tell whether any speed instrument or anything like this is accurate or works, or whether the wheels pull in because we can't pull up the airplane except we have some special tools later made in China to support the wings but this is several days of operation to check the landing gear or repair them again. We really depended on the pilot's report, and it's done very orderly, after each flight the pilot stays in the cockpit, takes his log book out and fills in what flight, what number, what did not work. That is the order then, he goes and briefs the headquarters and General Chennault about whatever he shot and whatever he saw, we mechanics immediately get the log book, that's the bible, and from the log book, whatever is not written in, is not going to be touched. We had no time to play around down there in a war, to do anything else. We go on the log book. The pilot said, "this gauge is out, that does not work, the engine does not accelerate fast enough, those things, of course, we tried to do as good as we can in the dim light and the little time available, and with no new parts there, and that is often a very tricky thing. FRANK BORING: (inaudible) �HERMAN THE GERMAN: Working on an airplane is something which you do as much as you can in the daytime. You have daylight, even if it rains, at least you can see what you're doing. Then when it gets dark, you have hand held flashlights, which are very, very difficult to do, one man can't do it. One man has to hold the light, another one has to perform the work. It is much easier said than done to hold a light steady and shine on a particularly narrow spot in which a man works. The work has to be done perfectly because if you take any lines which leak and you don't seal properly because you have no gaskets in properly. You don't safety wire. Do you know what safety wire is? In an airplane, any connection has a thin wire which is twisted through it and put in such a position that by itself the nut cannot loosen itself under the vibration of the engine. All the safety wiring, and all this has to be done, and you tell the fellow, "Hey, shine over here". At this the Chinese were wonderful incidentally. We usually used Chinese for that because Americans said, "To hell with it, here you do your own." But the Chinese would come and would hold it steady and hold it there while I'm doing the tightening and the maintaining or the exchanging of parts. So it was very difficult to do anything at night against the advantage at night is that you see the flame of the exhaust. It was the only real thing you can do in a few hours you have available per aircraft. We couldn't take from the 52 aircraft existing or 50 aircraft that became 45 later, and take an engine out of commission just to overhaul it and to do something. Unless it's written up in the book, nothing would be done. FRANK BORING: Let's go to [?] what you saw. HERMAN THE GERMAN: All right, I have been subjected to bombing of course, all before, although it was usually, as we've said, Kunming down town was bombed but not our area specifically, but sometimes there was a hang up bomb or a pilot released his bombs a bit later, and then one went right over Model Village, they hit Model Village several times. You in the meantime, sit up and watch your airplanes at 20,000 ft. usually coming in, there was very clear blue sky, they're �coming over and they are past you already when you begin to hear the whistling of the formation of the formation of bombs coming down, a whole bunch comes down, and they are moving on the ground at the speed of the aircraft, which is something like 200 mph at that time. AT that time you start digging into any depression that you can find. No-one will stand up, everybody lies flat and if you are afraid, you don't look up, if you are not afraid and want to see what hits you, you see the bombs come down. Although Kunming was the center of their target until December 20 raid, often the bomb didn't fall free immediately at the plane, and if it was just a split second later, it was outside of the city wall and could well be over Model Village, which was, of course, only if the plane flew over Model Village. But lying on the ground and knowing that the planes already had passed overhead, you then wait for the formation, for the whistling of the bombs as they come down. They, of course, come down at first instant at the speed of the airplane, then they are dropped down, and very quickly down full vertical, and you hope that you are not in line, or you can tell that you are away from it that may be half a mile or a quarter mile away. But if you are sure, if the weather is bad and you don't see really clear, or one formation flies there and another formation flies on the other side, you darn well better lie down in any depression and any hole and any ditch, next to any road the Chinese had built has a protection, you dig and everybody feels like digging with their fingernails and even the least feeble man will dig in when the bombs start screaming as they are coming down as you feel the explosions and hear the explosions that's coming down at the sped of the plan as they go overhead, and you hopefully you are missed as they drop a bomb there, they drop a bomb on the other side. But luckily, I was never – but several people didn't make it, got hit by bombs on the ground. Then came December 20th, and here were first American fighter aircraft lined up or already flying with the alarm. And the Japanese obviously did not have the report. They had the report that planes were there but did not have the report, I believe that the planes were actually taking off already in an altitude to wait for the Japanese. Usually �when they are fifty miles away, we start taking off and start climbing up to about 20,000 ft. whatever the report says. And that was a great day when you stand there and while the Japanese, stubborn as they are, and aren't afraid of death, or maybe they are afraid of death but don't show it, they keep on flying to their target, the target this time boys, the airfield, the runway strip, hopefully any planes on the ground. Chennault's idea, of course, was to have all the planes in the air, or if they are not all needed din the air, take off and fly to some other airfield nearby. And then when you know you are not in line with the bombs, you stand up, you cheer for your plane as your P-40's go over there and you hear "eeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" and then there's a firing of the guns, you can hear that clearly split seconds before you hear because it takes a while to come down, but you can see it because every fourth or fifth bullet is a tracer bullet which gives you a line, which gives the pilot a line of fire, so that he doesn't have to look through his little site to hit the other plane. He just follows his tracer bullets into the other plane and there's great delight if we could see one Japanese plane after the other before, because they stubbornly went to the target. If they had gone up before, banked the wings and gone back to Hanoi wherever they came from was one thing, but they had orders to come and bomb the airfield so they went to the airfield and our planes of course took advantage of that and as the planes were known not to bank but to fly to the airfield, we could come from below, and then banked after dropping the bombs wide open, they could not shoot back, they were wide open, and a lot of Japanese planes just absolutely exploded because, as I mentioned to you once before, they had no armor plating, no self-sealing tanks or anything like that, no protection. We had these bullet going through and besides, America, I would say this for America, we had the best guns, we had superior machine guns. The Japanese had 20 mm canons in a Zero which we faced down there, but they were very slow, like dada-da-da-da and the American goes “Bruuuuuuuuuuu!” down there and it's really fantastic and if a pilot is lined up properly then that Jap has no chance whatever. �FRANK BORING: Describe if you could the reaction after the battle when they flew in and landed. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course, then the old-fashioned, I think pre-war American system was a victory roll and while in the early days, Chennault let the boys do that, later he told them, "Cut this out" because we endangered the plane at low altitudes to make it roll, plus you used more gasoline. We were so short of gasoline that we just couldn't do anything extra, but the cheerful, if we knew that plane number so and so, they had big numbers on it, and we stood there with glasses and would say, "Hey, there's number 48, 48 is going to get ‘em!", and the plane in front of me explodes or goes down, starts spinning down… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 6 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes the primary aircraft repairs he worked on for the AVG and his perspective on witnessing the battles and bombings that were taking place there. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ae51590e6af3be9dd6ff50071d56fa46.mp4 61b8ac384d705c1dd396a1897a8652fe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07b6338f076295c683d68ee26bb55322.pdf 7fcd8ae15966cd9bc909ea0b0ba324a3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] HERMAN THE GERMAN: I would say my experience with the Chinese mechanics which had started in Hong Kong and General Motors garage, of course, was that they were very, very capable, very neat and very orderly. I didn't remember any particular occasion of ingenuity which they had, but except for this story I told you before, I had mentioned before, about the bearing in the engine and using the felt of a hat, or the bamboo of a buffalo in the distributor, the Chinese were very, very good at that. It came later that we had no more spare tires, and it came later that we had no more tail wheel tires, and again the Chinese were thinking of wrapping a rope around the tail wheel to make a [?] then take off on a rope, or the Chinese had been very, very good to a point with the delicate business of [?] the electrical instruments, we had no electronics at that time, but the radios and so on, and the repairs we left to the Chinese. When the AVG left and turned it over to the air force, already we had Chinese mechanics, [?] to maintain the very delicate instruments. I have the highest respect for those fellows who were all very thin and you don't think they have that much strength, but their strength – they don't drink, and the American boys did a lot of drinking, but they shouldn't, though some of them should – and they were always very, very gentleman like. I have nothing but the highest respect, I really mean it, for the Chinese people and, of course, for the Chinese mechanics. �FRANK BORING: From that perspective, I'd like you to evaluate and just compare, if you will, the Americans had first started coming in and then the Chinese, and the difficulty you may have had in getting them trained properly to get the job done, which they ultimately did, but there was a period of transition when things must have been very difficult. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I wish I could tell you about any personal feeling I have towards training the Chinese, or what their ability was versus the Americans, it was practically automatically that the Chinese came in, another few, another few, the next morning I met another few Chinese and we took them over to the aircraft with the cowling, we moved and looked at the engine and explained what it is, and I would say that they caught on just as well and as fast as anyone else would have caught on, or better. I really have the highest respect for these people – I said it before – they are very good. The American boys had a lot of guts, a lot of courage, had rank. So far as rank is concerned, being crew chief is the mechanic's rank, or propeller specialist, but the real delicate work was usually taken over to the Chinese, I want to say that. No-one says the Americans were no good, some were no good, we know that, and some were outstanding, but in general the Chinese – I had never seen anyone giving something to a Chinese which did not come out all right, and was returned in good order. FRANK BORING: Let's look at the difference in personality and characteristics between the American mechanics and the Chinese mechanics in terms of you were getting introduced to two foreign groups, introduced to the Americans and their way of doing things. HERMAN THE GERMAN: The Chinese mechanics and the Chinese officers respected anything what the Americans said, and did it as the Americans said, even if they felt differently. I personally felt that the Americans were pretty strong in looking down upon the Chinese. I'll give you an example which I don't say is typical of an American. But many of the American enlisted personnel, who did �not have the education of an American pilot of an American officer, misused the Chinese. I saw the Chinese coolies walking down along the street to the highway to the airfield, and carrying the typical Chinese bamboo stick and two baskets hanging on each side, loaded with meat or whatever they had in there, and I saw American boys in their jeeps or in their station wagons trying to hit one of these basket so that the Chinese would spin around from the momentum which goes around, and I was pretty sick of that particular incident which I saw several times happening. But it was the same fellow, so they weren't all the same. You would never find this in the pilots. I found most pilots as top-notch caliber, also socially. They were decent to the Chinese and treated them well. The enlisted personnel, there was a difference and I could see, if you take it as a whole category, between the officer corps and the enlisted personnel, that these were not – not all – but most of them were not quite of the same caliber and did not treat the Chinese as nicely as I think they should have been treated. But the Chinese did exactly what the Americans said, and how they said it. I did too at first, I didn't know to use my system here, whatever system I had. I did what the Americans said. They came over here and they were Colonel Chennault's boys, and we were one unit later, with the Chinese and the Americans, and I did think as long as the AVG existed, we were one big unit. FRANK BORING: Tell us some more (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I'll tell you something here which you wouldn't say on TV but one time I made very good friends with one good mechanic, a real good mechanic, and one time I made some friends, many Americans of course, they had to do it and I was delighted to do so, and one of the in particular was a good friend of mine and one day he and I walked down to town and followed a very attractive Chinese girl. She was walking ahead of us, and she was dressed very nicely like a home style girl, which she probably was, and the American soldier told me, "I'd liked to bite her in the ass and so that it would drag me to death", and I couldn't figure out what the �hell he is talking about, "biting her in the ass and dragging it to death", I didn't know the word "ass". If I would have understood it, I wouldn't understand why does he want to be dragged to death. This was a typically American expression which I stumbled over many times. I would have to think about what to say now……… FRANK BORING: There were always 300 …………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: You mean by name…………… FRANK BORING: Yeah, just some of the ones that you personally felt ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Well you personally interviewed one of them already down there. FRANK BORING: Anyone of them also that may have irritated you or ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I made friends with a few of those American boys over there. Some were very fine, some didn't live any more. Bill Sutherland was one who happens to be the AVG garage mechanic, one of the four. Bill Schaper, Bill Schaper was a very, very nice man. He was tall, he spoke well, he didn't cuss as badly as the rest of them do. The American cussing was not taught at German schools so I had to learn what the various terms meant, which I did not know, which is all natural to the American audience, but to me it was strange. But Schaper was a very fine man, and a very good mechanic. He was one of the very, very good mechanics, and he and I worked together a lot, and he taught me some of the things which I should know, I certainly didn't know everything, and he didn't know everything either, but it was very fine teamwork. There was the aide for General Chennault, for Colonel Chennault, was Harvey Greenlaw. He was a senior American officer I assume, a very, very nice man and married to a very pretty – I believe she was a white Russian girl – Olga Greenlaw. Olga Greenlaw had a reputation of being one of the boy's friends, pilot's friends, and disappeared a lot, many times, I don't know about her personal life, but Harvey Greenlaw was always very, very nice and even when �the war was over when I already lived in California and not yet married, Harvey Greenlaw visited me in his Rolls Royce and looked me up and took me out to dinner. He was a very, very nice man, a fine man. FRANK BORING: How about any of the other staff, either like P.Y Shu, the ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: All right. There were other people in Colonel Chennault's staff like his aide, Shu, Colonel Shu. Now I never knew where Colonel Chennault was necessarily, and I didn't have many messages from him, but if I had any, I always gave it to Colonel Shu, because Colonel Shu saw to it that Claire Lee Chennault got the word, and I got the answer back from Colonel Shu. He was an absolutely reliable man and I've seen Colonel Shu many times, right up to a couple of years ago in Taipei. Colonel Gentry, our squadron doctor, the man I met in – who incidentally swore me in later when the AVG disappeared, and the air force took over. It was Colonel Gentry who made me sign the military papers. He always was good and there was no, what we called, short arm inspection, (you can't use that on television), but there was none as there was in the military later, there was regularly every few months a short arm inspection. But the GI's – the Flying Tigers could walk around town and they sure did. Who was the guy who got fired by Chennault and then the air force didn't take him? No I can't really talk anything about him except that he was so drunk at times that he flew, but he was, he was so drunk that the Chinese had built dummy planes out of bamboo that looked identical, painted on top of the wing and the cockpit and the tail, that from an aerial photograph it looked like a regular airplane, but it was nothing but a bamboo frame. During one air-raid alarm, he went on the dummy, trying to open the dummy cockpit to go and get in, so drunk he was down there. Finally Chennault fired him and the navy didn't take him and the army didn't take him and only the marines took him and he became an ace. But he was an ace already in China, but he was so drunk he was totally unreliable. I can't tell you much about Skip Adair, but he was always very nice, a very, �very fine – very strictly an officer and an enlisted man, so to say, an enlisted man. FRANK BORING: Did you have any contact …… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Did I get to know any of Colonel Chennault's personal staff or other staff? No I did not. I was so involved in personally getting used to Americans and learning English, and doing a good job on the aircraft, there was no one day off a week or anything like that, it was a round the clock deal, with flashlights as there was no electric light – whatever lantern we had and so on – to get the plane ready for the early 4:30 morning take-off time if necessary. What I really suffered under, I was standing running engines within a few feet from the exhaust and my hearing got very badly damaged which showed up years later. FRANK BORING: If you could give us your evaluation of the P-40E as an airplane. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course, when the Americans brought planes in, they were all P40B's. I had never seen anything else but an American fighter aircraft, but the P-40B. It was clearly identifiable by two or three things. One of them was the shape of the individual exhaust stack which was round on the P-40B, while it was flat and long on the P40E which reduced the exhaust flame, which in a night fighter is a very important thing because a following plane can easily aim at the aircraft from the exhaust flames he sees in front. I also heard that the P-40E had about a 100 horse power more than the B engine, so that there would be quite a difference. But the big thing we saw was that two 30 caliber machine guns were mounted in line with the engine on top of the engine rather than six machine guns in the wing. This particular B had two 30 calibers and four 50's. The four 50's were two and two on each wing, while the two 30 calibers were shooting through the propeller. I don't think I ever saw a P-40 which did not have a bullet hole through the propeller, which in America would mean condemnation right away, it's not safe enough to fly, and in China, we didn't have another propeller, �so we had to fly them anyhow, and just fire the bullet hole which this own pilot, his own gun, shot through its propeller bed. This happened during a dive or during an over-speed condition, beyond what they call a red line on an instrument. Each throttle of the P40's we had in combat had a little safety wire so that you shouldn't push any further. You could push further and you could get more power out of these engines but you shouldn't do that. If you found a plane when it returned which t had the safety wire broken, which indicated the pilot shoved the throttle forward, than plane was taken right out of commission and a certain mechanical features had to be overhauled and checked, what else could have happened. But the P-40B, when it was used in a dive, in a dive either to attack a Japanese plan, or to get away from a Japanese plane, in any case, if the pilot at the same time fired a gun, fired through an accelerated speed instead of shooting through the gap, which is then between one blade and the other blade of the three bladed propeller, it hit the propeller blade right through the hub, and it got a beautifully, nice 30 caliber hole through each of the propeller blades, and many aircraft kept on flying. We just fired them nicely until we got some spare parts later. FRANK BORING: Tell us if you can, what examples, what had to be done to bring one of these planes that came in from combat, back into combat. Any examples you might have, and this is one of them – supply problems and all that – incorporated in your answers. HERMAN THE GERMAN: One of the greatest number of repairs, and quite difficult to perform, was the propeller governor. I don't know whether you are familiar with the propeller governor but with a three bladed propeller, the blades rotate not only this way with the engine, but the pilot can adjust the rotation of the blades during take-off and during climb, you have a different turning angle, than later when you cruise for better efficiency, or in a dive when they go even more different. This was an automatic gadget which was held on by four nuts, inside the engine right between the Vee of the aircraft. This was the most frequent of faulty unit, which the pilot, �when it was faulty, could operate the control, but the blades did not change, and it happened because there was a slight oil leak inside the unit which needed oil for lubrication, which got between the electric contact points. There was a point up or a point down. Point down has a contact here, point up has a contact there, and if any one of these points got a little full of oil, which as hot oil in there, it did not make contact, it did not rotate the blade, and that thing, I would say that about every fifth to sixth flight, this unit had to be taken out, washed in gasoline, taken apart and put back in again. To do this in 25–30 minutes between combat and back again, was a very, very difficult thing, and you could not fix that unit that quickly. You took another unit, you slapped another unit in, put it in, four nuts on it, electric wiring on it, a cowling on, and "Here pilot, off you go again". He started the engine and off it went. FRANK BORING: Where did you get these …………… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 5 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses his impressions of working with the Chinese and American people and his evaluation of the P-40 airplane. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/365f936d4507e18389afe9ff28368026.mp4 3e6c2fea43f353581cb50e4aa7bc7f46 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5f10ba87027253ea8da3df4e7459b6e6.pdf a160e42b61c77b2d8c92a248ba614cb6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] HERMAN THE GERMAN: After the bombing, those of us - just the men - went into town to see what all was damaged. Kunming was not a very city, there were cobblestones down town, then the gates, and the first thing we always looked at, was the gate still there, yes, we found the one gate which we entered was still there. Immediately after entering the gate, we saw already people lying on the street, dead or badly wounded, we saw one woman who had her baby – she had been nursing her baby and the baby was still alive but the woman was dead, she was split all the way through and I saw – I'd never seen before a dead or alive person – how many colors were there in a person between the stomach and the heart and the insides, red and yellow and everything, it was absolutely horrible. There were people without a head and without arms, there were animals there and there were crater, of course, where the bombs hit and war was just plain horrible, and that's the way it always is, you don't see from an airplane. I made many a flight over where we dropped bombs, you don't feel that, the impersonality, but you walk through a city and the buildings, because there was no more glass in Kunming after all these air-raids, they all had paper as windows, they had no more glass, there was no glass available, no glass replacement, and so there were no glass splinters at least. But the rest of the building would just collapse, and then the rebuilding immediately began, the Chinese, right on the same – by noon time, 12 o'clock, the Chinese had streamed back into the city, they had �left early in the morning when the first ball went up that the Japanese are coming again and all went outside, and they came back again and start sweeping together the rubble and the plaster and whatever earth material they had to make bricks out of. They just mixed it with water again, they reformed it and put it out to dry and hoped that the next day, another part of the city would get bombed so that their pieces could go up again. And it was a very tragic thing, the anti-aircraft was inadequate for continuous bombing by 27 bombers like, I said, so the Japanese could do whatever they wanted. They had hit at the power station completely, there was no more electric power available, no more electric light, and food came in in buffalo carts, and then the buffaloes could eat in town, and it was just terrible. (22:43:35:00) I was obvious to us that the Japanese were using Kunming as a bombing practice target, and this was later confirmed during the war when the raids on Kunming had just been discontinued, the regular daily runs, because they had other targets then to bomb like in Burma and Indo-China and other places. But until nearly the end of – until the beginning of the war with America, just a little bit before that time, the raids discontinued. There were also no raids when the weather was bad, but it was very rarely in Kunming which was usually a good weather city. But it was a nasty thing to do on civil population, except that a lot of people did make it out regularly of the 150,000 inhabitants, and it was only a few that just did not quite get out in time with their weird vehicles, wooden wheels, so those who got stuck got killed on the streets, or near the gates. In other words, they were trying to get out through the gate but couldn't quite make it when the air-raid started. FRANK BORING: Let's look at December 8th when Pearl Harbor got bombed and what happened immediately afterwards in terms of your own, the change in your own life at that time. HERMAN THE GERMAN: It was Bob Angle? who had a radio, a short wave radio and he came over to my house and said, "Would you believe it or not, the Japanese have now bombed Pearl Harbor", and I didn't even know �myself where Pearl Harbor was until he said it was in Hawaii, an island, it's a big city and a big U.S. naval base, and he told me already not in detail, but that major damage had been done, that a substantial number of Japanese planes had been shot down, but that he knew that no-one had expected a Japanese fleet of carriers to get so close to Hawaii, that the planes could be launched from Hawaii and fly back again. Manilla was considered a target by us in China. We thought the Japanese would hit Manilla right away, and they already had occupied French Indo-China at this point, so they didn't have to worry about Hanoi or Saigon any more, but Rangoon was going to be a target and the Philippines and then when we got the word that Hawaii got bombed and major damage was done, that was bad news. Although we probably never got the word that the damage was so bad as it really was, I believe the Japanese did – I hate to say it – but I believe they did an outstanding job from their point of view, an excellent job to target and get in and sink those big carriers and ships and battle cruiser and whatever else damage they did. I thought they did a very good job from a Japanese point of view. FRANK BORING: Now what happened immediately afterwards? If you could explain your motivation for leaving a very lucrative business, with a lot of high profile contacts and whatnot, to go to join the AVG. HERMAN THE GERMAN: After the bombing, he told me this story, I asked him if where was Colonel Chennault was going to be and he was not clear whether Colonel Chennault would be in Burma at this time, in Rangoon or in Kunming. Now, come to think of it, I wasn't quite sure myself. I went out to the airport in my own car which I had been given as a present by the Governor for maintaining his car, it was a Peugeot convertible which was not fancy enough for him, but it was a wonderful car as far as I was concerned. I drove out to the airfield, and I either saw Colonel Chennault himself, or another American, an aide who knew about the Colonel's offer for me to join the AVG. And I said, "I'm going to close up this garage in two days as far as I personally am concerned, but I have another German �working for me and I have turned this business, will turn the business over to him, and I'm available in two days to join you. And he said, "There is no great hurry, but you should go to the new quarters, you're going to live in what we call your "hostel one" which was a Chinese military establishment and they would be moved out, or they will be possibly moved out to make space for Americans who are going to come up, who you are going to join. So I moved out and within days already the first ground equipment came up and then the first American fighter aircraft that I had ever seen came up. And they were Curtis P-40B's as you may have heard. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was asked why would I leave my lucrative garage business and the answer is yes, it was very lucrative, but Colonel Chennault had offered me an American salary in U.S. dollars of something like about $300 a month which was an enormous amount of money so far as money is concerned, while I made at least as much or more in my garage business, it gave me a new opportunity and a growth and I was excited to be with Americans – to meet Americans. I'd now met a lot of Chinese, I got used to Chinese habits, but I'd never really seen any Americans en masse. I'd seen Mr. White who was my employer in Hong Kong, I'd seen Colonel Chennault, I'd seen Mr. Bond in the elevator, I'd seen a few Americans, but I'd never really seen what seemed to be hundreds of Americans going to come, and I was looking forward to that, and I really had no idea, no secret idea about going to the States, but just was – I was a young man at that point – was 24 years old, and it was just exciting to do something different but repair automobiles. FRANK BORING: Let us now go to… HERMAN THE GERMAN: The first troops that arrived –so-called troops who I thought would be uniformed and with military rank insignia and very orderly and walking straight, I was just completely shook up by what really �came up. Very, very nice people, they called me GI, or GI Neumann, or later Herman – Herman the German, that became my name, and those men were wore all kinds of odd uniforms put together, no insignia whatsoever. I couldn't tell the difference between an officer and an enlisted man, so to say, but it turns out that in the American Volunteer Group, these differences really were not very large, except that the officers stayed by themselves and pilots, while the rest of the organization, regardless what rank they had, whether he was a corporal, or a sergeant, or nothing, it didn't exist, there were no ranks, there were no rank insignia. Some people wore civilian clothes, some people wore some uniform, it was the oddest group of people you could possibly imagine, and they immediately took me in immediately, and said, "Hey, tell us about yourself," as we sat at the breakfast table, and someone said, "Hey, shoot the jam, Sam". I didn't know what he says, "Shoot the Jam, Sam?" And a lot of these slogans, which you Americans all understand and are familiar with were actually new to me, and I couldn't get it. But everyone was very, very nice to me, immediately and they said, "Look, I have an extra shirt", someone else said I have an extra pair of pants that may fit you", and they fixed me up and fitted me up and I even got an old-fashioned flat steel helmet which the American military used to wear before World War II, and so the integration with my associates was very, very easy. They immediately gave me handbooks on how to maintain Allison engine, Allison to be a General Motors part, of very clear and descriptive books on what to do in maintenance, and I noticed the boys themselves, not all of them, some of them were outstanding, or very good, but there were some of them there who really were not that good, and not that reliable, and the problems that we developed with the total of, I think altogether, 52 aircraft was about all that came over after the Burmese campaign had ended, there were all left from what was supposed to be 100 aircraft to begin with, the 52 aircraft was very, very difficult to maintain, of course, they did need a lot of repairs. The American boys were very good at replacing parts properly and installing it right, but to repair things was another matter. We in Germany are �trained to repair, we never had the money to buy new parts, new spark plugs, new ignition units or new propeller governors, or whatever and so I became quite well known as, "Hey, Herman come over here, about fixing that, or how about fixing that" and I found out a lot things about American machinery which was not very good, which would not have passed in Germany, and while Americans were always deeply insulted when I said, "Hey, that is not particularly good", it turned out to be true, it wasn't. For example, let me give you an example. You now an aircraft engine of the type we had, the Allison, was V12 aircraft engine, that means there are 12 cylinders in a Vee form, and each cylinder had two spark plugs, one from outside and one from the inside, and if you had to work on the spark plugs inside, or on a propeller governor which was a particularly poor design, which was mounted inside that Vee, and an aircraft came back from a flight in which at this count had some problems, and you had to put your hands in, there were no way but burning your hands completely and I was known, I wanted to show the American boy the good German boy was not afraid of it. I went in with my hands in there and they were completely burned, but once it was burned, it didn't make any difference any more, I didn't feel it any more. To replace spark plugs, and replace this particular propeller governor, was a horrible thing to do it in the quick time of the plane landing, quickly replace it, get it ready for flight again and in a matter of 30 minutes be ready to take off again. And that's when I got my name of Herman the German, and I salvaged a pretty good reputation which I did not know at that time, 'til the day the AVG left on July 4th and I was offered a job as a Staff Sergeant with the promise of promotion to Technical Sergeant very quickly two days after and to Master Sergeant very shortly thereafter, and I ran the whole squadron. FRANK BORING: Before we get into the details of (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: To get ready for the reception of the aircraft coming up from Burma, the first squadron, we needed facilities. We had absolutely �no facilities ready, and so we were busy from December 8th, so to say, actually it was December 10, I believe, or December 9th, to set up overall facilities, camouflage, inside trees, we had no hangar, we had nothing. A hangar was going to be built and we made some sketches – someone else did it, I didn't do that. – a sketch of a typical small hangar for fighter aircraft, and we were setting up places, where are we going to pull the engines out, which tree is strong enough to hang a chain hoist or to lift the engine up. You wouldn't believe the primitive situation which we faced. I want to tell you one thing which I think you will be very interested in. the aircraft engine had not only two spark plugs but also has two ignition units a right one and a left one, and they were plastic cases and a plastic distributor rotor they call it, that's in the center of the unit which rotates around, and one of them had a tiny crack that we found after some very difficult maneuvers, and we had no spare part, of course, for such engine, and one of the Chinese mechanics who I'd brought with me – I took some from my garage and some I knew and some I interviewed – some actually came from Hong Kong, whom I'd met, who worked for me in Hong Kong, and since I could speak Chinese a little bit, enough to get along with, I was the one who had to handle all the Chinese – one of the suggested to take the horn of a buffalo, of a living buffalo, probably that had just walked by pulling a cart, and they cut off, they held on to the buffalo, we sawed off with a handsaw, a piece of that horn, then the Chinese fired very cleverly, the shape of that part that was plastic, and they replaced it and that P-40 was flying a full 100 hours before it was sent back to India. Now I'm going to mention the words "100 hours" which may not seem much to you, it is not very much, but for a fighter plan in World War II, at the very beginning, 100 hours in combat is a long time, and it was practically, barely any one airplane that saw that much time before it was replaced by a later group of P-40E's which the Flying Tigers, or the AVG also had. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 4 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses his reactions to the bombings in Kunming and Pearl Harbor, in addition to his motivation for joining the AVG with General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7bbf6e39dad3fdc38d6bc2aacb572730.mp4 34d95867abe1a190310cee422fee5365 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22679d846d5c2e039394aaeefe61bdc8.pdf 23ad1977fb8b56cfe7890ad1b976cb41 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] HERMAN THE GERMAN: There were other Germans still in Kunming, there was a German – not an ambassador, but a rank level lower, and a German legation, and there was German university in Kunming, and there were quite a few Chinese who spoke German and learned German, and there was a Lufthansa subsidiary still flying into Kunming, Junkers 52 airplanes with a big swastika painted on the tail, sitting happily and peacefully next to the CNAC plane, an American aircraft. There was a whole group of foreigners who stayed in one hotel in Kunming, many nationalities, French, German, British, Americans, and they had no problem whatsoever with each other. While they were fighting and killing each other in Europe in the war, they lived together happily in Kunming. FRANK BORING: Where did you go for your first employment, then tell us about that. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Renault was my first employer, he operated the trucks over the Burma Road. Because they had technical problems which the Chinese could not fix on the spot because there was no width available for two trucks to pass each other, they asked me whether I would like to go, for pretty good pay, as the only non-Chinese and convoy leader, leading 24 trucks down the Burma Road and then back again bringing gasoline and ammunition and other – �some food supplies, special spare parts up the Burma Road to Kunming. FRANK BORING: Why was it necessary to have a western educated engineer, mechanic if you will? Why couldn't the Chinese just fix their own trucks? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The Chinese mechanics were nice, they were good drivers, those few who drove, but automobiles were not yet very much known in the western part of China. Shanghai yes, and some of those big cities, but the West Yunnan which was one of the most primitive parts of China did not have many educated drivers, and if they could drive, they could not maintain and take an engine apart on the highway which I promised to do, whatever is necessary. And indeed, when I had my convoy going down, on the way down, we burned up a bearing of a piston engine, of a truck engine, and I stopped the convoy and I dropped the oil pan, I worked on the bearing of a piston, of one of these engines. We had no spare parts available on that particular thing. It may be interesting for the audience to know that one of the Chinese had an idea to cut up his felt hat into strips and put felt of his hat around the bearing. I liked the idea and we put it together and a deep convoy completed its trip with a unique type of bearing, all the way down to Burma, to Won Ting in Burma. FRANK BORING: At this time, where were you living ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: …………… that the word spread around that there is a foreign mechanic ………… FRANK BORING: That's right, okay. ………………a little more to know what happened after you came back from that convoy trip. HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I returned from the Burma Road was all the trucks still on the road, and this is an exception because most convoys lost one or two trucks in the process because there was a very steep drop on �the sides of these very narrow, poor roads. I was told by the German at Renault that the word had spread around that a German mechanic is here to fix cars and we have a list of several people who would like to have their cards checked. There was not necessarily anything wrong, but they would like their cars checked after having gotten it all the way up to Kunming, and there were also Chinese gentlemen like the Mayor of Kunming, the Governor of Yunnan, the Chief of the Police of Kunming. All Chinese officials had big cars, big American cars, and of course the German Embassy, or the German Consulate, and the French and the British and all down there, and I had a hard time hiring enough capable mechanics, and communicate with them. We had no equipment, we didn't even have a firm floor like you would expect a garage to have. When it rained, we were all lying in the water, and I got a bad case of rheumatism in the process down there, lying in the wet and the rain under the cars. But we developed portable bamboo roof, which four men took and put over the car, so when it rained you could work in it and so we the little bamboo roof since we didn't have a big place. But anyhow, the garage business did very well. We had a bad inflation at that time in China, money really didn't matter. I got money, I brought it to the bank, they exchanged it into some American money which was very nice of the bank, because I also repaired the car for the president of the bank of the China National Bank, and he treated me very well. And so I could live nicely in a village for foreigners which was outside of the city wall of Kunming. Kunming in those days had a 360 degree wall with four gates, north, south, east, west, beautiful gates with some nice Chinese curved roof, and these doors or gates were closed at night and opened early in the morning. The foreigners had to live outside. There was one long line along the highway towards the airport, called the "Model Village". It had 67 houses. I got number 67, the last small house. Number 66 was a pilot of the CNAC, an American pilot, Mr. Angle who would was there with Chennault before the Flying Tigers came in, but he stayed with CNAC then joined Pan American later. The house next to him was 65, was Captain Chennault and each of those gentlemen and each �of the foreigners had their own car of course, and I had to take care of all the cars down there. So we were in very close contact, for Claire Chennault had an old Ford, which I think the Chinese gave him. This was probably in worst condition of any of the cars down there, and I had a lot of contact with him, and I admired already Captain Chennault what he was trying to do, and he reminded me every so often that the Americans were coming only a year from year now, then later on only nine months from now, and just before they came, he said, "They are now in Burma, and we'll have some up here by Christmas or before Christmas we will have the planes, the American planes and pilots here, and mechanics and so on, and I would like you to join me by that time." I said, "Okay, I will do that.” FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: A neighbor of Bob Angle was a very fine gentleman who had married an American nurse in Hawaii, military nurse, and he lived next to me as I said, and brought spare parts for my garage business from Rangoon to which he flew daily with CNAC, Kunming–Rangoon and I had to give them a list in the evening and he brought it back next day and I made him a partner in my garage, so he was a 50–50 partner by bringing the parts up. The house further was Chennault where the Captain, who later was called Colonel Chennault, I think he was a Colonel in the Chinese Air Force, no-one called him Captain any more, we called him Colonel, and the Colonel I liked not precisely what he did, because I didn't know what he did, except that he was trying to train Chinese how to fly, but he left early in the morning, he came back at night, he looked at you straight and he said, "Neumann, I have a little problem here or there", but he kept his house in good shape, and what I really liked about him was the eyes, he looked at you and he, by God, you knew when this man tells you something, you can trust him, which was always a problem when you travelled around the world, you find out that there are a lot of people who tell you things, and they will not live up to it. �FRANK BORING: In terms of the conversations that you had with Chennault prior to the actual formation of the AVG, did he ever let you know about the progress or any of the problems he was having with the formation? HERMAN THE GERMAN: No. Chennault was obviously working besides the Chinese on something for which he said he would like me to be there a year and a half from now when I met him at that timed. I knew it pertained to American aircraft, just like the Germans had shipped German aircraft over to China, but he also had pilots which he mentioned he was in the process of getting together a group of pilots and a group of mechanics. Now, at the same time, as all this took place, the Russians had Russian military aircraft in Kunming helping the Chinese. for a while it was going to be the IVG, the International Volunteer Group, which ultimately, a year from now, would be formed and which I should be a party to it, but when the Germans invaded Russia, the Russians withdrew all the aircraft of the their pilots and pulled them back, and the Germans pulled their [?] back, and suddenly there was nothing but the Americans in the picture, and the Chinese, and out of it came later then, as you know, the AVG as the Chinese American wing later in the air force. FRANK BORING: This is very important for us to understand, that made you want to leave that very comfortable and lucrative life to join up with something that had no precedence before and had no real chance of success, when you look at it from that point of view. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I can tell you that as part of my customers – I had mentioned this before – the Governor Lung Yun, the Chief of Police, the chief of the air force, and the Mayor of Kunming were customers who I had regularly once a month a luncheon in their home, in the Governor's home, because I took care of their cars during that time. They mentioned Colonel Chennault to me as one of the wonderful Americans who they were familiar with. Also I should say that �during operating my garage, the American marines who travelled from Burma to Chungking, to maintain the American warship which was anchored in Chungking, an old-fashioned thing which the Japanese finally sank. They talked about Colonel Chennault as being a great guy and some people would say, "Well, heck, if you join him," – and I told them that he promised that he said, "I'll take you when they come, I'd like you to join," – they'd say, maybe you can become an American and come to America later," Of course, they had no authority, nor did they know anything and I didn't really take it seriously, but Chennault did not promise anything about that he gets me to the States, he just said, "You can help us and the Chinese people very much if you come". And I wondered why the heck Americans, in the German opinion, was that high and were that capable, why they would need a German mechanic, well trained, but I found out later that German training was still, I believe, superior to that what the boys received in the military in the United States. FRANK BORING: During these conversations with the Mayor or with the Governor or anything like that, was it ever brought to your attention that the state of affairs, if you will, of the Chinese military were – at this time the Japanese were winning almost everywhere, the British and everybody was being defeated – what was your impression? Did you ever talk about this, or did they give you any indication of the state of affairs, the situation that China was in? HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, I received my briefings of where the war was standing during the luncheons with the Chief of Police, the chief of the military and the air force, and of course, what people probably don't know is that Kunming was bombed practically daily, beginning at the end of 1940. The Japanese Air Force used Kunming as a target practice, and they were usually three times, nine planes, which is a Vee formation nine, nine was one in front or one in the rear, twenty seven bombers, twin engine bombers which bombed defenseless Kunming, just anywhere. They bombed right down into the city and they never bombed our foreign village where we �stayed but I think only because the target was for them, Kunming, bomb Kunming. They had anti-aircraft gun, which was a German 88 mm gun set-up, with Chinese who had German steel helmets, but it was time they hit a plane which went down, a bomber. But there was out of, nearly daily raids, right on schedule, 10 o'clock in the morning, the Chinese alarm system, which was very, very good, had three balls up on a high mountain, the red ball pulled up first means enemy aircraft are 200 miles away, then the second ball was added to it and said, they are now within 50 miles, the third ball put up, it said don't move any more, don't run around, hide, go in your cellar there, in five minutes you get bombed, and so the three balls alert, you may have read, this came from China, the three ball alert, the three red balls. Whatever you were doing, you looked up there to see if was anything going up on the hills. And so, being bombed for a year before America got into the war, I had a feeling already that bombing, after what I had seen in Chunking which I told you before, I'd seen it from the air, how it was burning, now it was a pretty darn miserable to get bombed on the ground. Particularly when you have no shelters and cement underground buildings like they had in London or they had in Berlin or they had in some other places in Europe, you were just flat, the Chinese buildings were all flat on the ground, there was nothing dug in, except in Chungking where they had big caves, and where one time, by coincidence, you may have heard about that, those entrances to that big central cave, which kept thousands of people in a shelter, they were bombed instantaneously, and the pressure on both sides was so tremendous that their eyeballs popped and the stomach dropped in. It was one of the very horrible things that happened in Chungking when the big air-raid shelters got bombed simultaneously as the exit and the entrance. The bombing was, fortunately for us, done on a regular basis. Every morning at 10 o'clock sharp, the third ball went up already, saying, we're going to be hit very shortly, and thereafter there did not come – the Japanese did not return any more the second time during that day, they waited for the next day. And so we foreigners, not all of us, but those who were interested and who were at home, went to �town, we walked to town to the entrance of the walled city and once we got inside, I saw the full horror of the war. I saw women, who held the baby to their breast, and the women were lying on the floor, split wide open, they were dead already, the babies were still alive. I've never seen so many colors in the human body which were hanging out of the persons who were hit by the bomb splinters and shrapnel and whatever else happened there. There were not only people, there were animals, their big water buffaloes which are used to transport a lot of things in tall carts, were lying dead in the street down there, their four legs up in the air, and war is just really horrible, total sin. America never really saw the war luckily for the American citizens here, but the Europeans have seen plenty of it and the Orientals have seen plenty of it too, and I was glad to be alternately joining those who fight the Japanese Air Force as they come in and do their daily bombing as a target run, and was looking forward to joining Colonel Chennault's people and help them whatever little bit I could. I glad gave up my garage business which had been booming at this point, and one of my chief mechanics was also a German whom I turned over the whole thing to him. I just turned it over and said, "You have it now, I'm going to join the AVG when they come up in December of 1941. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 3 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes his first employment while in Kunming working as a truck mechanic for the Burma Road. He also describes the conditions that led up to the formation of the AVG and his motivation for accepting General Chennault's offer to work together. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/291fd0fa68a09531d0066f40a0fb6da2.mp4 9a3b3fb4241ccc79d898b1657539e18d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1953a6fd8f68c12d3be7779621044dae.pdf 5854d265276745e2fa63b82969957b35 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] HERMAN THE GERMAN: The paddler [?] went to Macao and succeeded to get there but I understand he was interned in Macao and was kept there throughout the war for another four years. I made one final attempt to go sea in a CEE which is a Chinese National Corporation which is rumored to be part of a Pan American outfit. My guard and I went up into the only "skyscraper" they had in Hong Kong at that time, 20 storey high, a beautiful building, Hong Kong and Shanghai bank, a lot of travelers who went to Hong Kong have seen it. On the eight floor was CNAC building and I went upstairs with my guard, there was a Chinese, beautiful Chinese girl. All I remember was this slit skirt which all the Chinese girls had, and I was concentrating on her legs down there, but asking where the manager is. She said "The manager went home, you come back on Monday." I said "I cannot come back on Monday", and he said "I'm very sorry he's not here." And we both left, the guard and I left the CNAC office, I went to the elevator, I pushed the button on the eighth floor to go down, and the elevator come up to pick me up, and as the doors opened, I walked into the elevator with my guard, and coming out of the elevator was a gentleman with whom I collided, and I backed up and apologized. I saw right away that this man look British at all. He had a tie which was loose, he had a jacket over his shoulder, he was a tall good looking man, and he said, "Come in my office", and he happens to be – we went back in the office, passed the secretary, and he asked me what the story �was, what I wanted, and I had to speak English, of course, which was not too easy at that point, I had to speak slowly, and he said, "Have you any papers, or any passport, I said, "No, the British have all that", and he said, "Let me see if I can help you". The next thing I knew, it turned out to be typically American, he turned around, grabbed the phone right there, called someone, and all I heard was his side of the story and I understood only half of it. Also that his American was different from British, and I couldn't understand English enough anyhow. But all I heard him say was, he has to be out, then he asked me, "When do you have to be out?" and I said "I have to be out by midnight". He said, "Okay", he went back to the phone and told the other party, whoever he talked to, "No, it's too late, he has to be out tonight", I said "Yes", "Tonight. All right". Then he talked some more and said, "Okay, I'll have him there". He put the receiver down, he said "I am Mr. Bond, I am Vice President of Pan American Airways, happened to be here in town. I just talked with the manager of CNAC and they are expecting you at 11 o'clock at Kai Tak airport, which was in those days a very small, little airport, 90 degrees off of where is today a long jetty one way, which was a sand and grass runway and the CNAC flight would wait for me, or would expect me to be there at 11 o'clock. He then talked to my guard and wanted to be darned sure that he understood exactly: I have to be at the airport 11 o'clock at night for a night flight into Chunking. The flying was always done at night because of the danger of being shot down by Japanese planes, which were right out at Hong Kong, which is the city of Canton, about 60 miles away, which was the base for Japanese aircraft. So to avoid any possibility of being shot down, all flights took place at night. (22:04:41:00) I found out that the CNAC headquarters is in the only high rise building, high rise was 20 stories high in those days in the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank, a very famous landmark of the Hong Kong seen from any ship going through it. My soldier and I got to the eighth floor where the door of the elevator opened and I got out and we saw a very pretty Chinese secretary whose trademark was a typical Chinese dress which goes all the way up to the left side of the skirt, and I asked �where the manager was and she said, "Manager is out", and I said, "What time can he see me?" and she said "He won't be back before Monday, you come back Monday", and I said, "Monday is too late and she said, "Sorry, I can't do anything about it." I told the soldier, "Okay soldier, let's go back to camp, I give up" and as we got out and pushed the button for the elevator, the elevator was seen by the lights to come up from the ground floor to the eighth floor, and as it arrived, I went in with the soldier, and I must have been somewhat absent-minded and worried about what happens now and I collided with a gentleman coming out of the elevator. He looked different from British, immediately I saw that. His tie was loose, he had a jacket over his shoulder, and he said, "What goes on here?" and while I had backed up with my soldier to let the gentleman out, the elevator doors closed and the elevator went down without us. The manager introduced himself as a Mr. Bond, Vice President of Pan American Airways, and that he's just here on a visit to Hong Kong to see if we could extend the San Francisco Manilla service into Hong Kong, there was a flying boat at that time, people may remember that, it was called "The Flying Boat", a four-engined flying boat, and I told the Manager, Mr. Bond, as briefly as I could, as simply as I could in my pretty lousy English, what the situation was, that I have until tonight, midnight, to either get out or be shipped to Colombo, and he said, "Well, maybe I can help", and he grabbed the phone and in what I found out later, was a typical American movement, "Okay, let's do it now, don't let's delay it". The British would have never done that. He grabbed the phone next to him, he got through the operator a connection to somebody, told them briefly my story. He wasn't quite sure that he'd right, that it would be that evening, that midnight, the second day of my 48 hours the British had given me, that I had to leave Hong Kong or at least be accepted by someone firmly, and he asked me once more this question, "Are you sure tonight, you mean tonight, midnight?" I said, "Yes" and then I heard him say that to the other party, and after a while he said, "Okay, he will be there at 11 o'clock. Thank you very much. He hung up, then he told me and I didn't understand – I couldn't quite believe what I �heard, but what I heard was correct. He had gotten me a trip from Hong Kong via CNAC via Chungking to Kunming, China and that I would not have to pay for anything, I did not need a passport, I just get there at 11 o'clock, be at Kai Tak which was the name of the airport as it is today, except the airport today is a long runway built into the harbor and was at that time just a very simple, small runway. I told my soldier, okay, let's go back to camp. The soldier said, "All right, I will tell the officer what happened". And that is exactly what happened. I was at 11 o'clock at night at Kai Tak, I was delivered by the British. FRANK BORING: What happened when you arrived… HERMAN THE GERMAN: … No, no FRANK BORING: Okay, then tell the rest of the trip then. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I left 11 o'clock in a Douglas DC2, which also became quite a famous plane later, because one of its wings got damaged during a Japanese attack and a DC3 wing was attached to that particular plane, so it was called the DC 2-1/2, which is, one wing was a DC2 wing, the other wing was a DC3 wing of somewhat different size, but in those days, one really did not care. That airplane flew from Hong Kong to Chungking. We arrived there at about 5.30 in the morning, about an hour after heavy bombardment by the Japanese. Chungking was burning very badly and I remember exactly that I couldn't possibly believe that Hong Kong, which already seemed somewhat primitive relative to Berlin, now seemed after we landed in Chungking on an island in the Yangtze River, with the runway on an island, the houses were bamboo, and they had bamboo layers, different layers of bamboo so that bombs which had contact fuses exploded when hitting the roofs rather than penetrate into the building. They exploded on top of it, but everything was very, very primitive, the people very simple, no automobiles, and the city as I said, was burning and people tried to put it out, I assume. I was not in the area actually where the houses were burning. We had a brief �lunch on the island, then got back on this plane to fly to Kunming, which was 6,000 ft. high, a beautiful city in Yunnan, in the western part of China, which was the headquarters of the CNAC. FRANK BORING: Could you give us your personal impressions of the burning, what was your reaction. You had seen all these things so far, but so far no real [?]. If you could answer, what was your first reaction to seeing this Chinese city in flames? HERMAN THE GERMAN: It was a terrible reaction when I saw parts of this city burning, because it was a large city, very grey and foggy, the smoke was heavy and drifting over part of the city, and I saw actually flames before we landed, I could see flames burning, but I did not see any people being hurt. I knew, of course, that people must have been hurt or killed, but I did not see it except a terrible impression of a Chinese city in addition to it being burnt, so there were two impressions, a Chinese city being rather primitive and grey, and no street traffic, nothing flowing like I saw in Hong Kong, which was very nice and very modern. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: The airfield in Kunming was very primitive, a straight runway out of, consistent with grass and sand ending up at the lake of Kunming, which was quite famous. I should have mentioned that Mr. Bond in Hong Kong, gave me a little card, three by four card, with a little message. "Claire, take a look at this man", signed Bond, and he had explained to me that Claire was the name of an American officer of the Chinese Air Force, Captain Claire Lee Chennault, a name totally unknown here in America, of course, and unknown to me, and he told me, "When you come to Kunming, you will arrive there by noon time, you will have time while you are at the airport, before you go to town in Kunming to stay, you'll find a place to live. We can't help you there, you'll have to do this on your own. Look up this man, he may be able to help you". And so, I did look up, when I arrived, got out of the DC2, at �that time, and I said, "Where would be Mr. …" and then I said, "Captain Chennault", and a Chinese CNAC employee said, "He is over there at that building, that's a Chinese military complex, and there's a Chinese guard outside, but you tell him that you have orders to see Captain Claire Lee Chennault". FRANK BORING: If you could (inaudible) when you walked into that office to meet Claire Chennault. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I went over there, a few hundred yards to that compound, which was guarded by the Chinese who was very polite, he didn't ask me any questions, he couldn't speak English anyhow, and I couldn't speak Chinese, of course. So he let me right through and inside I saw a Chinese and I asked him, "Could you tell me where to go to Captain Chennault, and he said, "Right over there is his door". I knocked at the door, and someone said, "Come in" and I went in. There was a simple table like, Captain Chennault, when he became a Commanding General of an air force, the United States Air Force, still kept a simple table with nothing on it but a telephone and a cup of coffee, and behind it sat a gentleman, looking at me and said, "Can I help you?" and I gave Captain Chennault the card from Mr. Bond, whom I had met in Hong Kong just by pure accident. He looked at me and he said, "You are German I see, what can you do on airplanes?" and I said, "Well, I am a mechanic, also I am an engineer, yes, but I also can do mechanical work, and I understand that you may be able to help me", and he said, "Well, it will be another year, year and a half before we need your help, because we're going to get some American fliers come over here, but in the meantime, you could work for the Chinese Air Force, but there is really no work to be done, because I haven't got many planes. You could pull the chocks away from the wheels and put them back again, but it wouldn't be interesting for you, and if you can somehow get yourself employed, they certainly need a good mechanic around here, I can assure you of that. I could even give you some introductions and then see me again. Find a place where to live, and see me again a year, year and a half from now. �FRANK BORING: What was your first impression ………… (inaudible)? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The man behind the desk who had invited me into his office, this Captain Chennault, was a most impressive character with two black piercing eyes looking at me straight. He did not look to the right, he didn't look to the left, or went up and down, he just looked at me straightforward, and I was not sure whether he understood all my English, which of course, was full of mistakes, but he asked me if I had some proof of my background, and I happened to have kept with me, which the British had not taken away, some of my grades of my Engineering College of Midweiter [?], which I understand you still have today, and I had one engine drawing of a German piston engine, a radial propeller type engine, not a jet engine of course, and he looked at everything very, very carefully. He took my grades, he went through them line by line, although I was not sure whether he could speak English fluently, but the word "chemistry and physics and mechanical strengths" were easily translatable into English, and my grades were "excellent" throughout. With the exception of two which were "good", the others were all rated "excellent" which was the best grade you could have. He looked at me again, he said, "All right, I'll see you, you will find out when we are here, and I'll hope to see you then. In the meantime, you go to that and that place and they will put you up overnight, and there are a few truck firms here in Kunming which operate on the new Burma Road, bringing supplies up and down the Burma Road, and I'll give you a little to one of the managers of that company, and that's what he did. FRANK BORING: Now what was the next [?] or did you think this was your only alternative? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I didn't consider any other alternative, I just followed the line, I didn't even think of the future, what would happen later. I knew that Kunming was connected by a railroad with Hanoi, which was considered one of the seven wonders of the world. It was a very �exceptional railroad by French engineers going out from sea level Hanoi, to 6,000 ft. Kunming. It was running a single track for one time a day, one time daily connection. But the Chinese were afraid, and so was Captain Chennault, that this railroad would be cut by the Japanese, which indeed it was within a month to two months after that, and China had nothing to connect anything – its interior was with the outside world, except the Burma Road, which was not a highway like people may think it was, paved and the width of two trucks wide, nothing like it. It was one a one track hewn into the mountains and about 600 kilometers long to Won Ting which is the Burmese border town through which supplies for China were delivered by the British and the Burmese government, and maybe by the Americans, and which would contain fuel and spare parts for the airplanes which ultimately were supposed to come. FRANK BORING: What was your first employment? What was the first thing that you started to do? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I immediately saw the manager and I was fortunate, all my life I was fortunate, that this manager of the trucking company was there. Number two, that he was a German, and number three, that he worked for a French company. It was Renault Company Trucking Company which had four cylinder, cap over engine trucks, which were just short enough or long enough to pass the very sharp curves of the Burma Road. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 2 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses his journey to Hong Kong to visit the CNAC office and his first meeting with Captain Claire Lee Chennault in Kunming discussing the future of the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/245bddaaffdbb90d82cdfdbfc915f4ae.mp4 9e235d364d0c9fe0b9b06cd71091d9fc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ba1155fe7c7834e14aff5c85ea661963.pdf 3043438bca248c1342b6359cc39ae0d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] - audio only FRANK BORING: To begin with, could you give us some idea of your background before you even came to China - your schooling and your expertise, learning how to work with engines. Can you give us some background of that please? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was the son of a manufacturer of feathers for beds and feathers for blankets in East Germany, east of Berlin and Prussia. I was the only son and my son, of course, wanted me to take over his business ultimately. But I didn't like his business at all, I liked engineering from a little boy on. I flew secretly without telling my parents. I was nine years old already and airplane and took a round flight in a plane, I was very excited about it, and my parents then agreed I could go to engineering college. In order, in Germany in those days, to go to college, you had to be an apprentice as a mechanic for a minimum of 3 years, which gives you a feeling for the stuff which you ought to design later and how things work. I completed this 3 year period, I passed the examination as a journeyman which then means you are free to repair automobiles or airplane engines if that's the case on your own without supervision. I then went to Midweiter [?] which is the most famous German engineering school and the oldest one for many famous people like Junkers, Heinkel, Opel and many of the leading German manufacturers came from and graduated from. Just before I finished graduating, this was under the Hitler years, of course, it �was in 1938, in '38 in August '38, I was drafted into the German army and I got a passport but as an engineering student, I was deferred. All engineers and all doctors, medical, in anticipation of the need for war which Hitler knew he was going to start, but the world claimed then that they knew about it, I was deferred, I could continue with my studies and just before I graduated, I saw a notice on the bulletin board that the Chinese government, nationalist of course at that time, was looking for a few German young engineers who, after graduation, would take over the supervision of the maintenance of German aircraft and German planes. I saw this ad, I took this ad to the director's office and said, "Look, I have a chance to go," and he said, "This is okay, you had some excellent grades in the past years and we will send you a certificate. You apply, go right to Berlin and start applying for visas", because in those days, when you made a flight from Germany to Hong Kong, for example, you passed 12 countries, you need 12 visas. It's nothing like today where things go in a matter of hours, it took weeks before you could get the visa or an interview, going through Iraq, going through Baghdad and going through Iran, or at that time, Persia, and India was, of course, one country and Burma and Indo-China, French Indo-China at that time, all these countries took a while. Anyhow, I did get a ticket for a big tri-engine plane that flew once a week, Air France from Paris to Hong Kong and it took eight full days to fly there because there was no night flying and many landings were not on runways, there were no runways, they landed on the beach in many places. But in any case, it took eight days and I wound up in Hong Kong. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us what the reaction was of your family when you told them you were going? HERMAN THE GERMAN: They wouldn't think it would really work. My parents never thought that it would really work, that I would really get on that plane and get all the way to China because it was in the other half of the world, it was so far away that they thought they would never see me again if I do go. But I was determined to go. �FRANK BORING: Why did you want to go China and as a sub-question to that, what did you know about China before you went? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I knew really nothing about China, but I knew that I had to learn English. Now I had English at school and I had Latin at school for seven years, I had French for five years and I had English for three years, but that English I found out didn't really work when I talked to the first Englishman I met in Germany. He didn't understand a word that I had. I had English from teachers who had never been to England, so I knew I had this ahead of me. China seemed interesting, there was a book out in those days, "600 Million Customers". I don't know whether you had that here in English too, but we had this in German, I read this, it fascinated me, what they had in China and how they lived and to go on a two year contract, that was the idea, two years over there was perfectly all right as far as I was concerned. FRANK BORING: Tell us about your arrival in China and what was the first thing that you were to do when you arrived in China. HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I went to China in a very fancy airplane and everything was paid ahead of time in Germany, all the hotels at night and all the food and everything. I could not take any pictures incidentally because the law was that the cameras would be all locked up, so we couldn't take any photographs of the very fancy old places. I arrived in Hong Kong and stayed at the Peninsula Hotel, which was in those days, and still is today, the high class hotel. The one night of arrival was paid for in Germany. I had one experience with Nazi leadership. In September of '38 or thereabouts, there was a rumor that Germany may start a war, and Hitler denied it vigorously and on German radio. While looking out of the window of my apartment I saw German tanks already lined up, camouflaged and I knew at that point it was a complete lie. How the allied intelligence could not find out about this before, �is beyond me, but it was obvious we were going to start a war in a very short time, and so my invitation to go to China came just at the right time. FRANK BORING: If you can just repeat the answer that you had before HERMAN THE GERMAN: There were several questions before, which one was that? FRANK BORING: This is the one, your reaction to the situation in Germany at that time. HERMAN THE GERMAN: At that time, from beginning 1934,5,6 on, after the Olympic Games in Berlin, and I assure that it became obvious to the Germans that a war was in the making. Germany had all kinds of treaties, had just signed a treaty with Poland and was ready to violate it. We saw it in tanks which were parked in front of my window near the Polish border and there was a German agreement with Russia which suddenly came about after Hitler and Stalin were fighting each other – it was dog and cat – all of a sudden these two were signing a peace agreement. We knew right away inside Germany that this would lead to war very soon, and the allies would be terribly surprised because they wouldn't believe that Hitler and Stalin would get together and sign an agreement. FRANK BORING: What did you know about the situation in China politically, with the Japanese, before you left? What did you know about that? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The rape of Nanking was a well-known matter. I knew not much about China except what was written in the book "600 Million Customers", very favorable towards the Chinese people, about their intelligence about their work habits and so on, but the Japanese invasion which was in Shanghai and which went rapidly westward and got into Nanking, the rape of Nanking, was known, at least as the reporter reported it, in Germany. That itself didn't bother me because I was going to go with the nationalist Chinese, which at that time, there was really only the nationalist Chinese �and to help China operate the German equipment they had secretly got. One may be surprised that Germany sent military equipment to China. While Germany had Hitler and Hirohito and Mussolini as everybody knows were an Axis group but secretly Hitler shipped via Russia military equipment to the Chinese to fight the Japanese and that was a weapon trade and not only is Germany doing this, others have been doing this too. But anyhow, the Chinese had equipment but could not operate it properly, at least, that's the way they felt. FRANK BORING: What were your first duties? What were your first responsibilities? HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I got to Hong Kong, I was supposed to contact immediately a Chinese organization which operated under a code name and was taking several other engineers like myself and bringing them into the interior of China. Now this was Hong Kong, the British Hong Kong, where this took place. The people I was looking for, I was told had just left because they were thrown out at the Japanese request. The Japanese demanded from the British that they expel that particular group which was a recruiting agency. Here I was, all by myself and with nothing to do, and I immediately looked for a job and as automobile mechanic, it was the easiest to find a job. I got a job with the General Motors Agency in Hong Kong, but it didn't last very long because the war started in Europe and the British interned me immediately as an enemy alien. They had my travel passport and my military passport taken away and so I was put in a camp and we had to finally 102 German prisoners who were there kept until 1940 and Germany suddenly unleashed its war against the west, Holland, Denmark, Belgium and France collapsed I believe it was June 22nd or thereabouts of 1940. Then our good treatment in the British camp, prison camp, was ended, the friendliness. After all, the British were in a very delicate position, because the Chinese were considered inferior and the Chinese were handing on the barbed wire and looking in from outside, what happened to the prisoners in there. We could play ball, or we could play tennis and we had even laundry service and �everything. All this of course, ended, and we were given a 48 hour ultimatum and that was to either get out of Hong Kong or be shipped to Colombo in a big German prison camp they were going to establish at that point. And you had to pay a few Hong Kong dollars for a guard which was assigned to you with a fixed bayonet, to follow you wherever you wanted to go. He wasn't supposed to talk to you but there were a few places I thought, maybe Portugal or General Motors, or the Philippine Consulate or some other places, there were about six places I wanted to go to, to see if they would take me in without a passport, since I did not have a passport. The British were not going to give me my passport back, and only five of the 102 internees took advantage of that. One had a kayak folding boat and went by kayak, got away and paddled over to Portuguese Macao which is about fifteen miles away across the ocean which was not too dangerous, the water was usually quite quiet. The other four did not get any jobs and I gave up just about one more visit – at the last visit at the CNAC, Chinese National Aviation Corporation. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 1 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes his background in Germany before traveling to China to work as a mechanic for the Chinese government. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be16d6382454eb27da7b9fda13001640.mp4 489cdfe0b54765172667f1b9a64ea8dc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7a8ed5b7791df49b74e2a48599cb6980.pdf e9eb12e5fc702b123e10ca59a4ee76dc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Willard Musgrove Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] WILLARD MUSGROVE: When we were driving up this Burma Road - it was out of Prome we'd gone, we were about a day out - no, I'm mixed up there on getting back because it was later and I was in this jeep and this Chinese Army Captain and one of the soldiers and they'd flipped this jeep. Well I was looking for batteries anyway so I left the jeep, I put the battery in the truck, but first of all, the Captain's back was hurting him and I wouldn't move him. Then this other Chinese, I had a little bottle of merthiolate and he had a cut on the top of his head and I poured this on and let him hop around awhile. I got a board I carried in the truck and I got the Captain over on this board and picked him up. I was afraid to move him because he could have had a broken back and I got him on the back of the truck and we got him to the next town and I turned him over to the local authorities. That was about it on that. Later on we were in this town, they had a river running right through the town and a beautiful falls right in the river about 20 feet high, this falls and I had this dysentery. This was later on after we left Kunming for Chungking, I went to a Chinese doctor and you know what he gave me? Epsom salts - my God! When those things hit you - whew - I didn't stop for anything - just get that door open and get the music roll and get going'. What we had was a private garden, you know out there they use human feces all the time and our doctors inspected and claimed it was all right and that's where I got it from �I know. And that made it miserable the whole rest of the trip all the way to Chungking. FRANK BORING: What was the Burma Road like? WILLARD MUSGROVE: In Burma it was excellent. It was all paved road and then into China, we're going up this one side, there were 22 hairpin turns and the truck, it was a standard truck, double wheels in the back, but most of the time I had to back up to make the turn and this is where the Japanese caught the Chinese. The Chinese blew up the bridge and they couldn't get up the hill, they had all their equipment all on the top of this hill and the Japs just knocked most of it out. But it was quite a deal. Later on - I don't recall who it was - they were on there when these Chinese were going before they knocked the bridge out - the Chinese were running by hollering "Nipponese, Nipponese". Finally it dawned on them what was going on because here was shooting going on. So they dropped everything and left the truck and went up the river for a couple 3 miles and that's where they saw them wreck half their equipment over on the other side. FRANK BORING: What were you doing there at that time? WILLARD MUSGROVE: I was in Toungoo at the time - not Toungoo, in China FRANK BORING: Why were you with that group of people? WILLARD MUSGROVE: I wasn't with this group. This was later on when they knocked that bridge out. FRANK BORING: When you traveled the Burma Road was it mainly to get equipment? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Get our equipment and move anything out that we could get out of Burma. The roads were good in Burma. But when you got into China in some places some of those ruts were all the way to the �axle. Why they let it go like that - I guess they couldn't get the personnel to fix the roads. They were very poor some places - and some places the roads were good. When I got into one area there, you could drive your truck flat out if you wanted to. But it was peculiar, like ancient times these big mounds 2 - 3 hundred feet high, like a little hill, but peaked almost and every one of them had tunnels and water inside of them, streams were running in them and the road there was good, you could drive along at 70-80 kilometers. FRANK BORING: When you first came up with the idea of joining up and going over to Burma, did you have any idea of what might happen to you? Were you afraid? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No I wasn't thinking of that. The only thing was possibly maybe a Jap prisoner or something like that. We had a pilot that was shot down and the Japs picked him up. But that was the only thing I could think of that bothered me. FRANK BORING: So you never imagined the actual conflict? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No. I knew it could be very rough, especially from our outfit, but look at Boyington, he was picked up shot down in the South Pacific and he wound up as a mess attendant, gained weight while he was there. FRANK BORING: Was there any time while you were in during that year that you were afraid that you might not make it back? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh no. I never gave it a thought. No, I really didn't. When I was in the Solomon's during the war - when I got back in the Navy I went right down to the South Pacific, I went aboard a carrier and they transferred me to a casual outfit and we were moved down there in the Solomon Islands. That was different. I was flying from one place to another and I wasn't sure we were ever going to make it. We ran into a rain storm - a regular storm. We went up to about �15,000 feet and as high as you could see and it was just pouring down and then we went down to about 150 feet from the water and the waves were as high as that plane was big. I wasn't sure we were going to make that and the pilot it was a good thing he was an experienced pilot, instead of trying to make his destination, he turned around and went back and we were about 7 hours on a C47. FRANK BORING: Tell us about Boyington. He was a very colorful figure during that period WILLARD MUSGROVE: I talked to him quite a bit and he'd get soused once in a while, but he was an excellent pilot and as I say, I don't think he had one fear in his body. He was in our squadron and I don't think he got along too well with the other pilots. They didn't have too much to do with him and one thing he loved to do when he'd get drunk - he'd stick his fist through the door and that was one of his bad habits. I guess he would fight anybody that disputed with him. He had a few planes - I don't recall how many planes he knocked down over there. Of course he got most of them out in the South Pacific and we were flying better aircraft at the time. But Boyington was quite a man. FRANK BORING: What did you think of Chennault? What did you feel about him? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well that's kind of hard to say. I thought he was quite a man all right, but I had very little to do with him, very little. About the only time we had anything to do, was when he would talk to the group and that was about it. As I said, one of those pictures that you've got I had a beard and word got out that he didn't like my beard, so I shaved it off finally. But in the tropics raising a beard is tough because they itch all the time. FRANK BORING: When people think of the Flying Tigers they have an image - they had a reputation of hard drinking, hard fighting - women - is that true? �WILLARD MUSGROVE: No, not all together. I never drank very much in my life. More so later than I did then. And like the Governor throwing that party for our group, we all drank quite a bit that night. In fact even in the finger bowls they had alcohol and they drank 'em dry. Then they put on a show. The Governor had his daughter out there. Beautiful costumes they had on. But that's about all I can remember of that. FRANK BORING: These guys were a bunch of mavericks weren't they? WILLARD MUSGROVE: I think we were really, to tell you the truth. FRANK BORING: How did you feel about how the military treated you in terms of supplying you? Did you think you had enough supplies? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Out there? Well it was pretty hard to get a hold of until the Army was planning on coming out there. Then I think the first plane load came out with trash cans. They had a bunch of trash cans on one of them, I know that. But the supplies started to come in and then they finally showed up the last month they started coming in there. FRANK BORING: Just say that again. I think that's really important about most experiences on the Burma Road WILLARD MUSGROVE: Yeah the most experience was the various places we went to and from the second half of the Road from Kunming to Chungking, I had quite a bit of experience on that. I had a machine gun with me and I had to try it out on a hill. The only time I ever fired a machine gun. Then when we came up to the city of Chungking, we had to get on a ferry there. At that time Chungking was the most bombed city in the world. The Japs had been bombing it quite frequently and you could see it all the way across the river. Now that impressed me to see that. After the ferry, we went on through the town and on out to the airport. �FRANK BORING: What do you remember about the bombing? What impressed you there? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh I didn't see it, just the buildings were all - like you see in the pictures of the war going on now. But seeing it from a distance - it was about a mile across that river to where Chungking was. FRANK BORING: Was there much smuggling or black market activity along the Burma Road? WILLARD MUSGROVE: I'm sure of it, I'm sure of that. We had some engines that were in crates later on that were broken in and a lot of things in there that were smuggled up there. I don't know who put them in there. They came from Rangoon. We didn't have anything to do with them. But guns and everything else everybody was after them. I had a rifle that was given to me, a British rifle. I sold it when I got to Chungking. I had no use for a rifle. In fact I sold a little pistol to a Pan Am attendant in Lashio that was in Burma, as far as a gun and what could I protect, I couldn't shoot it out with anybody. FRANK BORING: How did you feel the military treated you after spending a year volunteering like this, in terms of honoring you or helping you back to the States? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well the Army didn't have much to do with it. It was Pan Am did most of it for me. Goldie McCann, who was at that time Vice President of Pan Am, I used fly with him and made parachute jumps from the aircraft. Some of those pictures you saw, he was the pilot. He was an enlisted pilot at the time. Then he quit the Navy with about 15 years in and went to work for another airline, South American Airline and they went broke and Pan Am took it over and went to Pan Am and eventually he wound up as I think he was President at one time. I know he was Vice President. When I got back to Miami I tried to look him up but he wasn't around. �FRANK BORING: Were you at the meeting where General Bissell came and urged the AVG to re-enlist? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh yes. He made a long speech and they had uniforms for us and all this and that and then we wouldn't have to worry about - well I wasn't intending to go into the Army if I could help it. I wanted to go back and get in the Navy when I got back to the States, something I was familiar with. But he made a long speech about salaries and all this and that, but I don't think anyone wanted it at that time about getting back in. But until we broke up that's when they - there was quite a number of them went into the Army. FRANK BORING: Were you aware of the battle Salween Bridge, the gorge, when the AVG stopped the Japanese from coming into China? Do you remember that? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No I don't remember it. No I can't. That's when they blew up that bridge. And that's where we had a couple of them they had to escape on up the river, then finally made a raft and got across the river. We didn't hear from them about 10 or 15 days, something like that before got in contact with them. We didn't even know if the Japs had picked them up. FRANK BORING: What's the best description you could give us of the Flying Tigers as a group? WILLARD MUSGROVE: That's pretty hard to explain. Some of them were pretty wild. But we accomplished what we went after. I think we did a good job all the way through. FRANK BORING: What were you personally most proud of during that time that you accomplished? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Just that I was with the outfit, a volunteer and the reason I volunteered was because I knew the war was going to start. It was just a matter of time and that's the reason I went out there, I �volunteered for it. And I've been proud of the outfit all along. I think we accomplished a lot. And that's about it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Musgrove_Willard_1991-02-06_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Willard Musgrove L. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Willard Musgrove interview (video and transcript, 3 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Willard Musgrove Willard by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Musgrove joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941 after serving in the U.S. Navy for 15 years. He served in the AVG as a Crew Chief in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." In this tape, Musgrove describes his memories working along the Burma Road and his overall impression of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc14658ffdae1b0cb2b9af6a15ce9e53.mp4 c87b394a9a4484223ea1a2cf1a346b81 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d74a7d2c941119dab0414d5052629f50.pdf 4d07d6f78a0f54194e618a3066a63717 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Willard Musgrove Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] WILLARD MUSGROVE: When our planes came up we serviced them, got them ready for anything that could come up. And that was about it. That was about the only bombing raid that I can recall there. We had a couple of alerts but nothing happened. The planes turned around and went back. They were flying out of Indo-China - French IndoChina they were flying out of. FRANK BORING: When did you first meet Chennault? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well I met him in Toungoo at our field. FRANK BORING: Can you describe the first time? Did you know anything about him beforehand? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No, I knew of him in the National Air Races in 1928 he was flying one of the aircraft - I forget what they called their aircraft. In the Navy we had 3 Sea Hawks. Our aircraft were far superior to what they had to fly. In fact, Lindberg flew one of them I think in '28 one time. But anyway, then I saw him in Toungoo several times. He'd be out at the field quite often and he had his own private plane there. A twin engine Beechcraft or similar to that and they had a Plane Captain for that. FRANK BORING: Did you associate with the pilots? �WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh quite a bit, yeah. This one man I knew I was in the Navy with, we were both Seamen at the time and he went to flight school and came back first class. That's when our skipper let him fly his aircraft. Cokey Hoffman, we called him. FRANK BORING: But you guys socialized afterward - it wasn't just the crew chiefs? WILLARD MUSGROVE: A little. Not too much. I did with Cokey Hoffman because we were shipmates together and he was an enlisted pilot at the time in the Navy. And then they had a squadron in the Navy chiefs, enlisted pilots. But we went 2 or 3 times to town together, took a few pictures and he was always looking for souvenirs. FRANK BORING: How about the Chinese themselves? Did you associate very much with them? Did you get to know any of them? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No. We had a Chinese Colonel in charge of our hostel there where we slept and had our mess hall and we talked to him. But as far as associating with them, not too much and out on the field when we got up there they sent some Chinese to give us a hand on the aircraft. FRANK BORING: Did you have to train any of them? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well yeah. Somewhat you did - you'd have to watch them. Another thing, you didn't lay anything down and walk off because it would be gone. When you went into town you always had somebody with you, so they wouldn't steal the hub caps or the rear view mirrors off your truck or station wagon. FRANK BORING: How about the British, did you associate with them at all? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Some. Later on as we get into the story I'll tell you more about the British. They had some problems, we didn't have too many and when we finally, as each squadron went down to Rangoon to �relieve the other one, that's when the Japs were working us over and our squadron was the last down there, the British came in there and we had one man there - Mickey Mihalko - and he was a character. We heard that - who was the General that was in charge of that area - was it Montgomery? Anyway, Mihalko heard about it and he got in his jeep and he stuck his thumb right in his stomach and he said "Hey you, you're about to lose Singapore, you better get a hold of the handlebars you're about to lose Singapore". I didn't see it but I heard about it - what a character? He would get tight and we'd have practically close the whole communication system down. But he knew it - he could run anything and he'd walk into that room where he had all his radio equipment there, and the noise going on and how in the world he could interpret that from the pilots. They had one man from the Army, King was his name, they worked together and they'd get drunk together. FRANK BORING: What were the conditions that you were working under for fixing the planes? WILLARD MUSGROVE: It was all out in the open, especially in Kunming, it was all out in the open. After a while we went on up to Chungking and it was the same thing there. Most of it was out in the open. Then we went down to Kweilin, that's a beautiful city down there and we flew down there. I was with Chennault on the plane that time. He didn't have much to say to me and it was just one of those things. We flew down there and that's where they knocked down the first twin engine fighter, Japanese fighter and then the Chinese Army tried to retrieve him and the gunner was alive, I think the pilot was killed I'm not sure of that. That gunner, he kept half that Army away from him. They finally got a hold of him and brought him in and interrogated him where we had our base. We had it in one of those darn little hills and every one of those hills was loaded with caves. That's where we had our main base. Chennault was down there with us too then, but that was quite a place, Kweilin. �FRANK BORING: When the battle started in December, when the fighting actually started, and you were still low on parts, still low on equipment, a plane would go up and get shot up or get messed up and then come back down again, what did you have to do to get that plane back up in the air again? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well we didn't have too much of that. We didn't get shot up much, very little. And usually a lot of things would take the place, a piece of tape and some aircraft dope and you could plug the hole up right away. We had one man that was a metalsmith by trade and he'd do the patching. There wasn't much of it that I recall. FRANK BORING: So each one of you - there was like a prop specialist WILLARD MUSGROVE: Yes, we'd get a prop bent once in a while and in time they would straighten it out. FRANK BORING: So in other words an airplane would come in and if it had a hole in it, one guy would fix it, another guy would fix a prop WILLARD MUSGROVE: Yes but most of the props were bent from ground loop in the darn aircraft FRANK BORING: What kind of problems did you have to deal with? When the fighting actually started and an airplane would come in, you'd have to just check it over. WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh yes you'd always check it over and any of the gripes from the pilot then they'd take care of them from there. FRANK BORING: What were some of the gripes? What kind of things that you can remember? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well I can't remember too much. See I was assigned as a Line Chief for about the first 5 months, just a temporary job and a lot of that the gripes were handled through the Mechanics on the aircraft. �FRANK BORING: Anything special, they'd come to me on it and right now I can't give you much on it - it's a long ways back. What was the morale like? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Pretty fair. We had some that didn't like it and they finally quit and went back on their own. FRANK BORING: How did you feel after a few months of being out there? Did you feel like this was something you still wanted to stay at? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh I planned on staying my time. I didn't let my feeling take any advantage of that. But I stayed out there the whole time. FRANK BORING: Were you really informed as to the status of AVG after Pearl Harbor? Did you hear rumors that you were going to be inducted into the Army or whatever? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh no. When we were down in Kweilin, there was a Colonel that came in down there and they tried to get us to go in the Army and Chennault was questioning me and he said "we'll offer you this" and I said I don't want any part of it. I said I'm going back in the Navy when I get out of here. I said I've been on four aircraft carriers at that time and I said I know where the …and he said "well you'll sink in them". Well I said I know but that's where all my experience is, is on carriers. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned earlier that you had a few stories about the British. WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh yeah. Well they got involved. Later on when we went back to Rangoon we had to drive a truck out of there and we brought what supplies we could pick up on our trucks when I went to Rangoon. Anyway, we left at night, we were headed for Prome, I think that was the old capital of Burma at one time and we got out of there and then on up and there was another group that followed us out of there, but we picked up these British soldiers, in fact we stayed one �day and a night in one of their camps - and their food I didn't think much of it there - and the Japs had surrounded these British - I think there was something like 200 of them and they surrounded them and wiped them out. And these Gurkha Indians got a few of them out of there and we picked up three of them. Then later on we had one of the British who was in our transportation department and that's what he did in civilian life. FRANK BORING: What were the last days like, getting towards June-July of '42? What was morale like? You knew that things were changing. WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well it wasn't too bad. FRANK BORING: How did you feel at that time? WILLARD MUSGROVE: I was getting ready to come home, that's what I was doing. And then I had to bum my way all the way back to the States. FRANK BORING: Tell us about that. You're finally leaving now, what happened? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well I got on this plane - this Purser came up to me and it was going to cost so much to fly over the hump - to Din Jan - I think it was around $300.00 - I'm guessing at that because I don't remember - and he had this board and he wanted me to sign up. So I wrote "Complimentary" on there and it satisfied him and I like to have froze to death going over that hump, because I just had a leather jacket on. It was cold up there. It was about 17,000 feet going over that hump and there was a hill just below you, maybe 500 or 1000 feet below you, there were pretty high hills over there. We got into Din Jan - a little burg that was a base where they had the Army was there and they had a camp. So I stayed in a darn mud hut, no door on it, just was a low door and door stakes in the ground and leather straps across with 3 pads for a mattress. In that place there you were a little bit nervous because they had cats in that area. This Army Major said that the first aircraft that arrived he was going to put us aboard and turn around and send us back, �and that was when Rommel was making his big push in Northern Africa. But anyway we got out of there and right on over to New Delhi. I think we stopped one place if I remember right, and they fueled with 5 gallon cans. Of course New Delhi had a decent airport there. And we had nice quarters there and good food and we even took in a movie there while I was waiting for more transportation. Then we flew from New Delhi to Karachi, India and that's where they said it's $1,500.00 from here to Miami. So I didn't do anything right then. I went to Pan Am at their base to see if they'd hire us. Well, we'll give you a flight to the Gold Coast on the West Coast of Africa and we went from there - we stopped in the middle of Africa someplace, I can't tell you where - spent the night there. When we got to Africa we stopped at Pan Am for the night and they put us up and the food was good. We were always interested in food because we all had practically the same thing. I got dysentery out there the last part of the Burma Road I was driving on. I lost 43 pounds, I thought they were going to bury me out there. We got to the Gold Coast and they drew straws. Nobody said anything, we went out to the field to look for this superintendent that did the hiring. He wasn't around so we came back that afternoon, still wasn't around. So I was picked to fly to Fisherman's Lake, one of the group, they drew straws on that and when I got up there - I don't know how many there was of us about 12 or 15 of us. I ran into an old pilot I used to know, Sullivan was his name and he used to be in the squadron flying Big Boats and he was flying Clippers, Boeing Clippers. We finally got through that line, they weren't going to take us through there, we were going to have to pay, but someway or other, one of the pilots, I don't recall his name, had a long a talk up there and finally decided to send us on through. So I spent all night talking with Sullivan, talking over old times. FRANK BORING: Why did you have to go through all this trouble to get back home? WILLARD MUSGROVE: We were thumbing our way. Nobody wanted to take care of us, get us back. �FRANK BORING: Well that's what I want to know about. Why did you have to go through all this? WILLARD MUSGROVE: The only thing I had was a letter signed by Chennault if they would cooperate and furnish the transportation, but that's all I had and I don't' know whatever happened to that letter. I would have liked to have kept it. FRANK BORING: Looking back now and after all the things that have been in the newspapers and books and all that, what do you feel about those days in terms of your life? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well it was an experience. I had a lot of experiences that I'll never forget or never regret. FRANK BORING: When you were there did you feel like you were part of history? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No I never gave it a thought. I didn't think about that because even when I came back and they found out I was in the Flying Tigers, nobody paid any attention to it. Just another outfit to be with, is all. FRANK BORING: What do you think you guys accomplished out there? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well I think we accomplished a lot in a lot of ways because it boosted the morale of our country. At least somebody was doing something, taking some action. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Musgrove_Willard_1991-02-06_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Willard Musgrove L. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Willard Musgrove interview (video and transcript, 2 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Willard Musgrove Willard by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Musgrove joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941 after serving in the U.S. Navy for 15 years. He served in the AVG as a Crew Chief in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." In this tape, Musgrove describes his impression of General Chennault upon meeting him in Toungoo and the working conditions the mechanics experienced, in addition to the overall morale during the last days of the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ce20b53e53d0e57432ff645bf60b21dd.mp4 898faef4592373fb4a3298707a214b0c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/13a28eb3f6d1bac6d99c03bd142195ab.pdf 8caa2286c0397e477f0251ea3da8b185 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Willard Musgrove Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: What were you doing prior to AVG? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well I was in the Navy and I was with the Enterprise in a squadron. We were based at North Island at the time and when this word got out, at first we thought it was just a rumor, and the word got out and then finally our skipper of the squadron "Fighting Six" is what it was - fighter squadron, and he, our skipper called us together and gave us a little talk about if we wanted to volunteer, that they were going take volunteers. There was a Commander Irvine representing this group and he was around and gave us a little talk and more or less as time went on I got more interested. Another thing is, the money was quite a good pay raise for those days in '41. It was offering Mechanics $350.00 a month and I was only making about $150.00 a month at the time. So it was quite a big boost and you know money talks at times. So when they did come around to sign us up, there were several of them that were going, but most of them backed out. It was Pistole and myself were the only ones really that signed up and when the time came for us to be released from the Navy, our group commander, he was in charge of all the squadrons attached to the Enterprise, he flew back to Washington to see if he could put a stop to this because there were 26 people, personnel leaving the area and that's quite a big bite between personnel. He got all the way to the Secretary of the Navy, Knox and Knox told him he was sorry but he was getting �orders from higher up and there was only one man he worked for and that's the way that worked. Well when it came about for us to be signed up, we signed up and they kept the pay office open all night long to get us out of there because the orders were pretty potent and the next day I was on an airplane flying to Indianapolis. They sent us to Allison Engine School, which was a different engine, naturally than what we'd been working on and we were three weeks up there. We took about a 4 months course in 3 weeks. It didn't mean much, most of knew what was going on about it and then on our way to San Francisco to catch a ship. I got a ride with somebody that was driving back, I picked up a ride and we got back to San Francisco and then we spent about 4 or 5 days, and I cannot think of that ship. It was a Dutch vessel that we got aboard. And the time of World War II was on its way then and everything was blacked out no sooner we left port, all the ports were blacked off. So we went to Honolulu and in the meantime I got a bad toothache and I had to have the darned thing pulled. We had a Dentist aboard in our group and I went to the beach - we were only in there till noon, the ship was going to pull out - and I got an Xray and came back, so this Dentist pulled the tooth for me. But it wasn't too bad and on we went. When we pulled out of Honolulu, we got out to sea, I believe it was a Salt Lake City Cruiser picked us up with an escort and were escorted all the way down to Australia. There a Dutch gun boat - it didn't look much but a gun boat picked us up and that's when the Salt Lake City left us, turned us over to this other - then we went on from there to Singapore and that was interesting, to watch all the little fires all along the beach at night. Got into Singapore and we were there only overnight. They didn't want to take us in there because the group ahead of us raised hell there. But anyway we got out of there the next day on our way to Rangoon. We got in Rangoon - it's about a 2 day trip. We were chased all night by a Sea Raider - I'm sure it was a Sea Raider because the skipper had this diesel job wide open and the sparks were flying out of his engine, you could see us for 50 miles. But anyway whatever we saw, it made a turn and followed us, so we figured it was a Sea Raider and they finally left us, we got �away from them because this ship could do about 22 knots, and so we finally pulled away from them. But that was an all-night deal and we all manned the rail most of the night. When we got into Rangoon we had to go through their customs and we picked up our passes and everything there and then we boarded a train to go to Toungoo, and on that trip up it was all daylight going to Toungoo and could see these Buddhist statues and their shrines. The put tin roofs over the top to keep the rain off so it wouldn't wash the coloring off them and my gosh there were dozens of them. About every mile or two you'd see one or two of them. Some of them are huge, they'd be 50-60 feet high some of them were. When we got to Toungoo, we got on a bus and came to our base and that was our mattresses came in 3 pieces like this - all in straw and it was kind of disheartening to see what we got into there. But after a few days we got used to it. And on the barracks - I'll use barracks - it was oh maybe a quarter of a mile - maybe not that far - from the field. Any of those that were there already out of the first group, they had gone to Hong Kong and then on down, we missed Hong Kong. But anyway - where was I? FRANK BORING: You've arrived at the field about a quarter of a mile or so… WILLARD MUSGROVE: I don't think quite that far because we walked - all of us started - as soon as we got around to it we'd buy a bicycle because that was our transportation there and we got out to the field and the planes weren't all there, just a few of the planes and they were flying them - I don't recall maybe a couple of weeks were getting there. We got squared around there finally and we'd do most of our work outside. We'd have a few planes in this hangar - one big hangar. It would handle maybe 5 or 6 aircraft stashed in there. FRANK BORING: Now what was it you were supposed to be doing? WILLARD MUSGROVE: I was a Mechanic at the time and we would check these planes over and try to get familiar with them because they were different aircraft from what we had - what I'd been used to working with. �They weren't doing much flying because we didn't have many aircraft at the time and we had coolies to do a lot of the work, as far as keeping the aircraft clean, and we'd try to help them out and show them little things like gassing, refueling the aircraft. Another thing, with our bicycles this got us away in the evening. We'd go on down into Toungoo and there was a little restaurant down there and we'd eat down there once in a while, we weren't too fond of the food we were getting, but it wasn't too bad - liveable. FRANK BORING: Was this anything that you were expecting? What were you expecting and then what did you actually find? WILLARD MUSGROVE: No, I wasn't expecting anything. I didn't - I'd put 15 years in the Navy prior to the time I went out there and a lot of things you don't expect. As far as the field - it wasn't a bad field for our aircraft to operate out of. We finally got our aircraft together and then we lost a couple of good pilots. We lost our Engineering Officer. His aircraft was ready. One of the Mechanics said his plane was ready and I woke him up - he was laying there sleeping - and he said "I'm gonna dive this airplane like it never dove before" and that's just what he did. The darn thing disintegrated coming down and I can't think of his name now, I'd have to look it up on the roster. FRANK BORING: When you put together a plane… WILLARD MUSGROVE: We didn't put any together. That was all done in Rangoon by a civilian crew down there and then this test pilot would bring the plane up when it was ready. FRANK BORING: But it was your job to maintain? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Oh yeah maintenance on them. We kept them up. FRANK BORING: What kind of problems did you run into? This was prior to Pearl Harbor, we're talking about? Still training with them? �WILLARD MUSGROVE: We were still training and the pilots were doing quite a bit of flying. Our skipper got up there with one of them and got into a flight spin and he saw he couldn't get out and it finally came out itself, he got it out. But I saw him and I wasn't sure he was going to make it because that plane was falling all ways and we could watch him over the field, that you could see. FRANK BORING: What kind of problems did you run into in terms of maintaining the airplanes during that period of time? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Not too many problems. As I said before, we'd run out of parts and like tires and from what I understood, they had a PBY that flew down from the Philippines from the Army base up there and flew down with a load of tires and brought them into Singapore and then we got them up there. So I think they came by ship from there, I'm not sure of that. But anyway that saved the day there because when they'd bring an airplane in for check - going through say like a 30 hour check or 20 hour check - we'd take the wheels off that aircraft and put them on another airplane so he could fly it because we were short of tires. That lasted for several weeks. That's about all I can really remember with problems. We had ground loops once in a while - they'd bend the prop and our prop men managed to straighten them out. They were electric props and 3 bladed props. But then it came time, the war had started - we knew the Japs were - an observation plane would come over once in a while - a few times a plane or two would take off trying to reach them but they'd be long gone because they came over around 20,000 feet and for a P40 to get to 20,000 feet took a long time. They didn't have the power to get up there. Then when the war started, the Burmese, the head man of all the coolies there, he showed up with all his war gear on that morning. We didn't even know anything about Pearl Harbor. But the radios told us all about what happened in Pearl Harbor, all the ships were sunk and damaged and then you couldn't get anything out of San Francisco, they wouldn't tell you a thing. Everything was censored. �FRANK BORING: What was your reaction? WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well not too bad because I knew sooner or later we were - because I was in the Navy and we went to Pearl Harbor in '39 as a group cruisers and the Enterprise and two carriers, the Yorktown and the Enterprise, only one at a time out there on the carriers and we knew that something was going to happen soon. It was no surprise to us. Just like they claimed that Washington was really surprised, but it wasn't. I won't go into that. I have some strong feelings there. FRANK BORING: What was the reaction at the base? You knew now this is it. WILLARD MUSGROVE: Yeah we knew they were going up. Most all of us had the same thoughts there about that. Then after the 7th of December two groups flew up to China, CNAC took us up there. We got in there at night and they had the lights on in the town and we landed at the field and we went in. They had us all set up there, where to bunk. We had a hostel and were about 2 miles from this field. The next morning, here come the Japs. There were about 10 bombers flew over - they were about 5,000 feet - they were higher than that because our field was 6,400 feet and that's quite high - and they were about 5,000 feet up above us and we saw them flying. We took off because they hollered "Jing bow" all the red balls went up on the staff. FRANK BORING: Explain about that - that's how you knew WILLARD MUSGROVE: Yeah. Well you could see it visually. FRANK BORING: Well what was it - describe it because I don't know what you mean WILLARD MUSGROVE: Well that meant there was an air raid coming off. FRANK BORING: Well was there stages? �WILLARD MUSGROVE: As far as I know they pushed everything up there at one time. That was about the only time I saw any Japanese aircraft around there. And they went on over into Kunming and dropped their bombs. They had all daisy cutters, those jobs with a stick on the end of them and they were caught flat-footed and the gates were closed and the Chinese were jammed up there. There were about 4 or 5 hundred I was told that were killed. We went down, we got in a truck, went on down into town after the air raid and they just threw them on trucks, piled them on one another and hauled them out of there, one on top of the other. But they couldn't get out of there, they were just caught flat-footed. Their air raid net failed them that time. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Musgrove_Willard_1991-02-06_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Willard Musgrove L. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Willard Musgrove interview (video and transcript, 1 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Willard Musgrove Willard by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Musgrove joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941 after serving in the U.S. Navy for 15 years. He served in the AVG as a Crew Chief in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." In this tape, Musgrove discusses what he was doing prior to joining the AVG as an airplane mechanic and his experience during the journey overseas from San Francisco to Rangoon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0574a7efdc053a8391e9eb8374c18782.mp4 7986a342cda7ba1f028ed3cf13bb48ed https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0bf588aece3861742afd13505da1a919.pdf d4f4a69ee5136d186435484321e90446 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 10] FRANK BORING: What was it like to be in Kunming thinking they might be breaking thru any day now? BUSTER KEETON: The Japanese were coming up the road really coming fast, that we’d begun to think that maybe they’d be in Kunming in not too long a time. But then the Chinese army when they blew up the bridge. They caught a lot of refugees on the west side and then we did a lot bombing and strafing along the bridge along Salween and sometimes we weren’t sure whether the Chinese or Japanese were shooting at us - or both of them. Anyway, I think that we did a lot of good work there and we lost some good men. We lost Bob Little there. In fact loosing Bob Little shook Bob Neale more than anything I’ve ever seen shake him. But then, the Chinese strength and with our help we held the Japs at the Salween River and that stopped them. Then a director led this squad I was on and we bombed and strafed this - they had a bunch of Chinese cornered and that broke that up and let all of the Chinese get back into the action. We did a lot of good work on that Salween deal. FRANK BORING: A lot of army replacements were coming in from the US and in one case, you talked about a Lieutenant Colonel Sanders who wanted a group of P-40's to go off and fly a mission and you knew there were problems to begin with and it turned out to be a disaster Can you recall that? �BUSTER KEETON: I remember one incident where Col. Sanders was bringing in some P-40's I believe from Dinjab [?]. And he got lost and Caribou King who was a radio operator, threw the net we had and they tracked their planes we had all the way. I’m not sure whether they were east of the field or west of the field but anyway Sanders thought he was the opposite of where they were and Caribou King said you’re over here because the net had told him where they were. So they had a little discussion and finally Sanders took Caribou's word for it and they came in and found the airport. It was quite an argument. Caribou King was a character. He could have cared less whether it was a general or president of the US. FRANK BORING: Look at the last day, July 4, 1942 in your diary. You said it was probably the longest day of your life at that time. What was the last day like? What happened and what was going thru your mind? BUSTER KEETON: Looking back on it, I think several things. I was still down at Kunming; I didn’t get up to Kweilin. Everybody in the 3rd squadron at Kunming was leaving. They weren’t staying for the extra two weeks. I kind of felt like I hadn’t done too much and I’d have liked to stay for the two weeks, although I wasn’t about to stay. I think we had to buy our tickets on CNAC, we couldn’t get out on Army transport. Just a lot of things plus the fact that you’re leaving. A lot of people had already gone. And it’s a breaking up of the group. I think a combination of a lot of things. I can’t think of anything more but that’s part of it anyway. FRANK BORING: Do you remember, the feelings that you recall of that day? BUSTER KEETON: I can’t. Actually, it was kind of sad and on the other hand it was kind of a joyful day. To see that you were heading home and not knowing when you were going to get there, but at least you were going that way. FRANK BORING: The trip home was quite difficult. I guess there was some anger on your part that they didn’t live up to their part of the bargain of �allowing you to go back home. Do you think Chennault was involved in keeping you from going home? Do you think the orders came from him or Stilwell? BUSTER KEETON: Chennault had something to do with that. It seems to me that when we got to Karachi and went out to the airfield and some major or somebody told me that they had word that we were not supposed to be given a transportation ride on anything and the word had come from Chennault. That upset the few of us who were there. There were quite a few of us. Later on, I think that probably came from somebody else. I just don’t think he would say that or do that. But that’s the information we got and that really upsets you. FRANK BORING: What do you think the AVG accomplished in that year period of time in terms of the Chinese and in terms of the Americans? What do you think the AVG as a group accomplished? It was a period in Chinese history, it was a period in American history, it was a unique period in which people worked together. Where do you think the AVG fits in terms of that period? BUSTER KEETON: I think the AVG kept the Japs from taking all of China and if they’d have taken all of China, they would have taken all of China before the US army, air force, and the navy and so on could get in a position to stop them. If they’d of taken all of China, they’d have taken a lot of India, maybe all of it and if they’d of done that, who knows what would have happened. As far as the AVG, what they did and so on, I think we were very fortunate to be at the right place at the right time, under the circumstances, doing a fairly good job of stopping the Japanese. I think the raid on Chiang Mai slowed up the whole process of the advancement of the Japanese and the other one was the Salween River. In fact, I think the Salween river thing kept the Japs from taking China. By then the army, air force and so on got in and that was the beginning of the end of the war. �FRANK BORING: What do you think the AVG did for the morale of both the Chinese people and the American people in the US? BUSTER KEETON: The morale of the places of where we were staying, boy they changed it a tremendous amount. Kunming - places like Yunnanyi. I didn’t get to Kweilin, I don’t know, but - Loiwing until we lost Loiwing. The morale of the people while we were there was terrific compared to what we were told it was before. As far as the US, I wasn’t here, but I think they thought it was doing a pretty good job. Maybe that was all due to the war correspondents. I don’t think so; I think we did a pretty good job. FRANK BORING: The final question and a very personal one. You’ve accomplished a lot of things after AVG. You got a nice home here, you found a wonderful wife, you’ve built a life for yourself that went beyond what happened at the AVG. What I want to ask of you Buster, what was it that you accomplished personally? What did you get out of the AVG that carried you on to the person you are today? BUSTER KEETON: That’s a tough question. I don’t know how to answer that question correctly but I got a hell of a lot out of the AVG and what it was I don’t have enough language to really say. Except I think it made a better man out of me, made a better pilot out of me. It builds up for me to carry on to what I as after. If not it had a hell of a lot to do with it. FRANK BORING: What do you think personally? BUSTER KEETON: What I personally feel now or back then? Camaraderie of the group is still tremendous. We still have it everybody had the greatest far as I know. We all have a great, great friendship and everybody thinks they accomplished a lot. A terrific job. All of them ended up as squadron group commanders at least two or three tours of duty over there. But we all have great respect for each other and that’s the important thing. �FRANK BORING: What do you feel you accomplished over there? Your own personal evaluation of yourself during that time? BUSTER KEETON: I think I did a good job. I don’t think I did a fantastic job. I’m proud of what I did, I’m certainly not ashamed of it and I don’t know what else to say. FRANK BORING: When you look back at that time, how does it fit in your life? Is it something that has stayed with you? BUSTER KEETON: Oh, definitely. The time I spent in the AVG had a lot to do with how I conducted my life, how I conducted myself and I’ve always been very proud and happy. It’s one of the best parts of my life. In fact the whole thing. I wouldn’t change that or since then for anything. I think a lot of its luck. Being in the right place at the right time. Ending up with everything you got. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 10 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton describes the experience of his last day as a part of the AVG and the breaking up of the group, in addition to his reflections on their accomplishments and their place in history. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e985d9c05ca6aaa7c065237a0724a0f2.mp4 e84e6d7227753148aca1a4cbab7362fa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/12eaeb8436c4bf04bc111c4327b5be8b.pdf 1bbd7099a1b693e5c6354e9c628219a0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 9] BUSTER KEETON: In the battle over Loiwing where all the zeros came in, I ran into Bill Reed, north of the field and his airplane - the windshield was completely covered with oil that had either come from a shot out line or a gas cap that wasn’t on tight. By communicating with him by radio which both of our radios worked, I told him to fly on my wing and I would take him back to the airport and he could make a blind landing just by flying formation. That he did and he made a landing and fortunately the whole thing worked out good for me because then I didn’t land I just kept on going and just climbed back up and I’m not sure the altitude now, but it wasn’t too high. I ran into this Zero who was heading back for, I‘m sure they came out of Chiang Mai. I imagine he was getting low on gas and I came up on the left side, rear left side and shot into his engine which I was trying to shoot into and it actually didn’t catch on fire but smoke came pouring out and finally he went in. And then I climbed on up to around oh, 18,000 feet and didn’t see anything and we got the all clear alert. Sometimes our radios worked real good and sometimes they didn’t work too good. FRANK BORING: At about that time, you became known as the white feather. BUSTER KEETON: That was a bad moment, because everyone had lots of respect for the General, of which he was going to be, At that time maybe he’d already had his commission in the army air corps and it was a tough thing but on the other hand, everybody had done a good job �and it was just a bad moment. Still, it upset everyone to think that we were white feathered because no way was anybody in the group that I knew anyway that would sew it in. Well, I don’t know at this stage of the game, I don’t know how to explain it, because we all admired the old man an awful lot. He was under a lot of pressure. He had pressure from the Generalissimo, he had pressure from Stilwell, he had pressure from Brereton. And Bissell and Ambreth? In India and McGruder in Chungking. Everybody was a little bit on edge. FRANK BORING: Did you notice a change in his attitude - in his way of doing things after he got the promotion to General? BUSTER KEETON: I think there was a change. Of course, we didn’t think it was for the better, but you could tell there was a change. It was back military type the way things were handled and away from more the relaxed way we’d been operating under. It was then very successful under the relaxed way and that’s the way we wanted to finish out our contract under. FRANK BORING: It’s important that we bring out with Chennault the change occurred when he received the commission. BUSTER KEETON: I think that most of us felt after Chennault received his commission that things changed to a little more military type more so then the relaxed type that we’d been operating under. More like going thru the chain of command, not too much but there was change that you could feel it. And it was, I guess, for the better because the army was coming in sometime and they would have to take over. Had to get back to the regimentation. I remember what led up to the white feather incident, it was some missions that were set up one was five or six P-40's to fly formation or cover for five Blenheim's. And I’m not sure who all was assigned to this, but it was to go down and bomb with these five Blenheim's, go down and bomb Chiang Mai. To escort Blenheim's which was almost impossible to even stay in the air in a P-40 because you couldn’t fly that slow. A �lot of the Z guys though the mission wasn’t called for and they thought it ought to be called off. Now, the mission didn’t go off and I’m not sure why. I think the Blenheim's were supposed to come in from someplace in India or someplace in North Burma and they got lost or something. But the mission didn’t go off and if I remember correctly that’s what the reason for it was. I can’t think of anything else. FRANK BORING: On May 21st, you actually met Bissell. Bissell was promoted over Chennault by a day. I wonder if you could comment on the meeting of him and any impression you had on the fact that Chennault was not promoted at the same time Bissell was. BUSTER KEETON: Everybody felt even going in or not, that Chennault should have had the seniority over Bissell because he’d been out there. He’d spent all these years in China. As far as going back in army history, maybe Bissell was senior to Chennault. I don’t know. Anyway, our reaction was that Chennault should have been appointed the senior man. In fact, we all felt that he should have been the man that was running the whole show in China, not Stilwell or Brereton. Or Brett or McGruder. It should have been Chennault running the show. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of Bissell? BUSTER KEETON: A meeting was called, I presume by General Bissell in Hostel 1 of all AVG people. The idea of it was to induct everybody or anybody that they could get into the army. The impression that Bissell left on everybody and I go along with it definitely is he made sort of an ass out of himself because he tried to railroad us in by saying we would get no help out of China to get home. No transportation. We’d have to pay our own way. When we got off the ship, whatever harbor it came into why we’d be met by the draft board and inducted into the [?] army. A lot of people were on the fence about going in. That made everybody sort of teed off and they said so and they told him right there. No way. �FRANK BORING: What did you tell him? BUSTER KEETON: I’m not sure. I don’t even know whether I have it in my diary or not. I said well, I don’t know. I can’t quote it. FRANK BORING: Maybe give us a sense of it. BUSTER KEETON: My feeling definitely was after that I wasn’t going to go into the army air corps and China then. I was going to come back and well, at that time I wasn’t sure later on I thought I’d go back into the Navy where I came from. But when a person tells you, you know you’ve been fighting a war and then they tell you that you’re going to have to walk home, pay your own way and the contract we’d signed well they weren’t going to let us work out the contract. The contract that we’d signed I’m almost positive, said that we’d get transportation home. But he said we wouldn’t get any and we didn’t. FRANK BORING: Why would he talk to you guys like that? BUSTER KEETON: I don’t know. The whole thing, now as I look back on it, then at the time I guess we thought the whole thing was not done correctly. It should have been sort of an individual thing instead of a railroad job. They were going to railroad you into going into the army instead of making it attractive. Just pushing you into something, you wasn’t sure you wanted it or not. I think at first I was very much on the fence but after Bissell made that speech, I wasn’t on the fence anymore. I was heading home. FRANK BORING: Do you think that people like Bissell were...? BUSTER KEETON: I think that there was animosity between Bissell and Chennault. I think Bissell was jealous of Chennault because Chennault was getting all of this glory and he was getting nothing plus the fact that Chennault had a way through the Madame to the �Generalissimo and he could pretty much get his way in China which Bissell or Brereton or McGruder - none of them could do that. And they were all, they didn’t like that. Guess if I’d been in their shoes, I wouldn’t either. I think that's the reason for the animosity between them or part of it any way. FRANK BORING: Also inherent in this insult, if you will, is the US and the British up until this time had not really done a lot of the fighting. The AVG was doing the fighting. The British as you know, were in India taking their tea breaks and the US had not really given a lot of support in the way of hearts, supplies you know major support. What was your reaction to - from the point of view of you knew you were fighting the battle, you knew you were fighting the war and Chennault was put in a position where he talked about the white feather and Bissell comes in and he states that “There’s a war on”. That’s one of the things he told you. From the perspective of you personally, because you had already seen that the US wasn’t doing as much as they really should have. The British weren’t and the AVG was the only one really fighting, what was your reaction to the attitude that the military was giving you at this point? BUSTER KEETON: Very disappointing. We were Americans. We all felt like we’d done a good job. We were very disappointed and we were a little bitter. The fact that we weren’t getting more help. Maybe from all the rumors and all the information we could get, we could have gotten a lot more help. That might be rumors. Maybe our thinking was wrong. No way I could confirm it, but we all felt like we could have gotten more help. FRANK BORING: One of the things that you talked about in your last days, was some things that you witnessed that kind of shocked you. Apparently there were some Chinese bandits that were rounded up by the military and you witnessed the execution of those bandits. Do you remember that incident? �BUSTER KEETON: Those were thieves if it’s the thing I’m thinking. Oh yea, they stole some wire or something off the telephone wire or something. They took them out into a vacant lot and well, they paraded them all over Kunming. Whether they pulled them in rickshaws or what I’m not positive but anyway, with these awful horns blowing and then they took them to this vacant lot and bent them over and shot them in the back of the head. Kind of gruesome, but I think they still do that in China. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v09 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 9 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton describes the change that occurred when General Chennault received his commission and how operations became more regimented during the last days of the AVG leading up to the army's invovlement. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/86d1027364a879ccb8f93f97a9af4a53.mp4 daa82c0d9579a8f3452a1481c016b20f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f25e8ae35da6e38cc52cfd831982f11.pdf 3e7cb7ecfc921e541505fd074630ee5b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] FRANK BORING: Give us the details of the escort of Chiang Kai-shek after this banquet? BUSTER KEETON: After the banquet, the next day I think the Madame and the Generalissimo were flying back to Chungking to Kunming and Chennault, I don’t know whether he left earlier to go to Lashio but anyway Harvey Greenlaw decided that it would be a good idea to put on a little show for the Generalissimo and the Madame and escort them part way to Chungking so there was Frank Lawlor was supposed to lead the flight and the flight with Boyington and Geselbracht and Gil Bright and Layher. It might have been one more, but I don’t recall now, but anyway they talk off and do a slow roll and Lawlor did the first slow roll and his baggage door came off and he almost crashed but because he was such a fine pilot he brought it out. But he had to come back and land of course, so then that put Boyington in command flying his escort part way to Chungking. After they left, the DC3 I presume is what it was or a DC2. They headed back to Kunming and was flying the wrong route and got completely lost and all five - four then finally ended up landing wherever they could. I think Gil Bright finally flew his airplane out - they might have been one other - that finally they got out - they might have sent the truck for one or two of the other. One of them was pretty messed up and I think lost it completely, but anyway it turned out to be a fiasco. I think Boyington’s excuse was that his compass was off 20 or 30 degrees which seems a little �weird that he wouldn’t find it out before he started home. He was flying along the escort in one direction and you think he’d of know about it then. Anyway it was a fiasco. FRANK BORING: What was Chennault's reaction? BUSTER KEETON: I think if I remember correctly, Chennault came back the next day and he was really hot. I think he was upset with Greenlaw for having the escort and of course he was upset with Boyington for getting lost and losing all the airplanes. He was really upset actually. FRANK BORING: During March, things started to change in the AVG, the morale was getting lower because there was more incidents of crashing planes. At this point, pilots were threatening to resign. Chennault got everybody together and gave a lecture about promising to stay together as a unit. Do you recall? BUSTER KEETON: Well, there was one down at Loiwing when he got the group together and there was - we were doing a lot of low level flying over the Jap lines and to give and the Chinese lines to give morale and it was - we went out to escort some Blenheim's back down to Chiang Mai which we had already done a mission down there it was very successful. This was to go and there were a lot of things, I think actually all the pilots wanted to do was have a meeting and see if they could get Chennault, Generalissimo and Stilwell all on the same flight length. Things got a little confused at different times because Chennault would tell us one thing and then be overruled by the Generalissimo or by Stilwell. FRANK BORING: You knew Hastey - he had a few plane crashes or something like that BUSTER KEETON: I think actually he cracked up three or four airplanes - three I guess. All of them not necessary at all. [?] got two or three at Toungoo checking out and then Hastey got another three, not �called for and Boyington had five. Probably the old man almost sent him to the grave for loosing those airplanes unnecessarily. (break) FRANK BORING: If you could give us the details of your involvement in the Chiang Mai raid. BUSTER KEETON: We took off at Kunming and 10 of us - and we flew to Loiwing and supposed to gas up and get out of there that night. Anyway, we didn’t get out we stayed overnight. The next day we flew down to [?] and we had a stay over. The night before we went out and put lanterns because they had no night lights or any runway lights. Put out lanterns across the runway and I remember this talking the night before they’d probably lose more on the takeoff then they would on the strafing and bombing. That’s what I thought of when they were taking off. I was the last one to take off. Nobody cracked up yet. But anyway we joined up the four Newkirk, Geselbracht, Lawlor and myself. We were supposed to join up with Neale and they would hit Chiang Mai and we would go 15 miles south and hit this other little field. What happened is we didn’t join up and Newkirk took off and we followed him and so we got over Chiang Mai ahead of Neale but just enough to alert him a little bit. We missed the field or I’m sure we’d of gone in and strafed and went on south trying to find the other little field. We didn’t find it or if we did I didn’t see it but then Newkirk started strafing warehouses and then there was a train on the track just beside these warehouses. Then there was a whole line of storehouses or something and we pulled all those apart and then we were coming back up and I was fourth man - the last man and Newkirk was coming around. I was back here and he went down and about here I saw a ball of fire over to the right and I didn’t realize what it was. , I thought maybe it was a weapons truck afire or a tank or something. On this strafing mission at Chiang Mai we had set a lot of storehouses or barracks or whatever along this railroad afire and had pulled up. Newkirk’s leading, I was behind and they pulled �around and while I’m back here Newkirk’s apparently is here because Geselbracht and Lawlor and about here, I see a ball of flame down there and I’m thinking that Newkirk had hit a weapons carrier blown it up or a tank or something. Then I notice that Geselbracht takes off in the direction back to Heyho [?] or [?] back over the airport and then Lawlor goes and I’m following Lawlor. I get on Lawlor and then we’re coming over the airport where the other guys had hit and really they had messed him up real good. The flak then was every place. It was just all over the sky and so I saw Lawlor, apparently I thought he was hit and was going in but what he was doing was just diving down and I don’t know. I just kept going side to side and kept straight ahead. And finally I thought Lawlor had gone in because all I could see was just one little speck up there which had been Geselbracht. Finally Lawlor came in from the side and the three of us got back and Black Mack was hit by ground fire, anti-aircraft and of course he finally had to - he nursed his airplane along for a while and finally he had to bail out and he was captured. I didn’t realize until the three of us were together flying that that was Newkirk at We [?]. Instead of him hitting something amazing how you don’t realize things when you should right off the bat until a few minutes later. We were so concerned about all of that flak coming up, but it turned out to be a very successful mission. Our group didn’t do anything good, but the other guys really shot up a lot of airplanes on the ground. Neale and Bond and Boyington and Bartlett. FRANK BORING: When you returned back with just the three of you what was the reaction? What realization that Newkirk wasn’t coming back? How did that affect you those three airplanes coming back and you finally realized that that fireball wasn’t something else? BUSTER KEETON: Well, you were concerned and you were upset. Although I had to admit previously that Newkirk didn’t get along too good, but that had nothing to do with the fact that you’re real upset. He’s a squadron commander and he never dodged any mission or �anything. He did his share. He was a little bit of a showman but on the other hand he still did his share. FRANK BORING: In April, there’s a battle over Loiwing in which some of the P-40s got caught on the ground and Reed had something shot up in his airplane. Oil got covered up all over, he couldn’t see and you apparently led him back to safety. Do you recall that incident? BUSTER KEETON: Yea, Bill Reed either had oil on shot or sometimes they didn’t screw the oil cap on the oil tank firmly and that would come loose and that oil would spill all over the windshield and you’d be flying blind. But you could see out the side and Frank Lawlor and I and three New Zealanders and the Buffalos had taken off on this alert and we got up, it wasn’t too high, around 10,000 feet and we run into all these zeros. So we all scattered, because we didn’t have the altitude and then with them coming at you, it’s dog eat dog then. I’m not sure exactly where I ran into Reed but anyway there was no dog fight as far as I was concerned then but I ran into Reed and he had all the stuff and so he - I told him just fly on my wing and I’d take him back to the airport. So he flew on the wing and took him back and landed and made a beautiful landing and everything turned out alright and I flew back up to get back into the action and it turned out because then I ran into this zero, he was heading for home, apparently getting low on gas and I got him and got confirmed - got paid for it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 8 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton discusses a period of low morale within the AVG in addition to his involvement in the Chiang Mai raid. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3483bdb051fbdefb24d126bebce43294.mp4 2386225c8c5f807f6add3a75d2b538f5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20289fb7b06941b1bef9e87a1f0c3469.pdf 1e485d73e82a287e0ac4d2e70ee9913d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] FRANK BORING: Could you tell us what you knew about having an airplane confirmed? BUSTER KEETON: As far as I knew at Toungoo, to get an airplane confirmed it had to go thru the senior British officer because the British controlled the whole state of Burma. And China was supposed to be the same way, this is my understanding now and I could possibly be wrong, but we had a board and [?], usually if Chennault was there it was he plus a couple of the squadron leaders and maybe someone else on his staff. They would read all of the reports that were sent in and they would decide. In case of the airplane that I felt I shot down at Toungoo, the British didn’t confirm it and later on I don’t know how much later at least a month, when the board met, our AVG board met in Kunming?. They didn’t confirm it. But I kept hounding Jim Howard who was on the board - Bob Neale was on the board - they were the only two that were still alive and I kept asking them why and finally Jim Howard who had the records went all the way back thru and read all the record and I got a verifying letter. I got it upstairs. He says I don’t have any idea why the hell this wasn’t confirmed a long time ago. He sent all the material to Bob Neale and Bob Neale said the same thing so they confirmed it. That was 47 years afterward. I never got paid for it, but finally I got it confirmed and I feel in my own mind that I shot the airplane down. The reason why we didn’t go out and confirm the airplane when we were there, this was the time when we were �getting things ready to get out of Toungoo because we were getting bombed two or three times every day and strafed and we were going to have to get things out of there. FRANK BORING: Could you give us an idea of those last days, of the strafing and the bombing from your perspective? What was it like to be strafed and bombed? What did you have to do? BUSTER KEETON: The last few days at Toungoo were pretty hectic. We had some airplanes and we had the mechanics were trying to get them ready, loaded with equipment and so on and get on the road to go up the Burma road because I was the only protection they had then. One airplane if I could get off. It was pretty hairy, we were getting caught and they’d come over and we’d just head for the ditches you know. Or if we knew enough time, which we normally didn’t, why we’d normally jump in some kind of automobile or whatever...it was pretty hairy because we were getting caught on the ground and the field if we had time either bicycle or automobile or someway we’d get off the field because there most of their bombing was at the airport. But if we didn’t have time, why then we’d get in a bunk or in a ditch. Got to be a little hairy but finally we got most everything out and sent up the road. FRANK BORING: Do you recall about Swartz getting killed? BUSTER KEETON: Well, that was a little later up at the - he got hit at Magwe and I think it blew his thumb or part of his hand off and then he was injured some other places and then I don’t know the complete story - he ended up in India and that’s where he died. It seems though I think [?] trick said it wasn’t necessary. It seemed time got caught on the ground was - Fauth. But he was killed immediately there. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible question) BUSTER KEETON: To get to Kunming, we had two airplanes left at Toungoo. And Goyette said he would fly one but he wouldn’t fly any farther than �Lichou [?] / Lashio. So he and I took off and we flew to Lichou [?] / Lashio and Tex Hill had come down on CNAC or somebody. Maybe on the Beachcraft with Hennessy and so we overnighted there and Tex and I flew to Kunming the next day. I don’t recall - I guess that was the landing at Kunming. I’ve forgotten... FRANK BORING: You had a strong reaction to Kunming when you arrived there. It was very different than Toungoo. You noticed that went in for dinner one time and you noticed Chinese person spitting on the floor and you lost your appetite. What was an American's reaction to this Chinese City? BUSTER KEETON: The barracks where we lived were fantastic and the food was fantastic but the city was filthy. And some of the Chinese restaurants were filthy. The food was good, good as you could expect, I should verify that, but it was a little hard to eat when somebody just four or five feet away from me was spitting on the floor. It’s something I hadn’t seen before, that kind of a little hard to eat some chow that was good but not too good. A little hard to stomach. FRANK BORING: Do you recall the time you went to see Chennault in Kunming and asked him if there was a plane available that could reach Japan? You were thinking that American policy was not concentrating on Asia and if Chennault had the right supplies and the right amount of people, he could put an end to what was going on in China. BUSTER KEETON: For some reason, I think it was John Hennessy and I had heard that there was a twin engine airplane someplace and all it needed was to be fixed up and we got the idea that if we could get that airplane fixed up and got some bombs on it, then we would be the first people that would bomb Japan. The old man at first thought it was a hair brain idea, but then the more he thought about it, the more he thought it was a pretty good idea. But sometime in here why that airplane was destroyed and I’ve forgotten exactly how or what happened to it. We didn’t get to do it, Doolittle got in there first. �FRANK BORING: In one of the incidents that happened that shocked you and gave you an idea of some of the problems that the Chinese government was having was there was apparently a group of Yunnan soldiers who had a conflict with some central government soldiers and I wonder if you could comment on that and your recollection of the internal strife that was going on in China. Perhaps the problems that you saw facing the Chinese. BUSTER KEETON: The war lords soldiers they were fighting the nationalist Chinese and one day while we were on alert here’s all this shooting going on and we’re not sure exactly what it is and so we run out of the alert shack and here are the war lord soldiers and the nationalist soldiers having a battle right outside of our barracks on the Airport itself. This business going on between the war lords and the Generalissimo's armies. I don’t know enough about it to know really what it was and some of the other provinces were fighting and the Communists were fighting. Plus the Communists were fighting the war lords. It was something that I’m not well versed in to comment. Except this happened about three or four times while we were on alert and it might have happened more. BUSTER KEETON: I think what he was referring to was in China and the servants in the hostels and some of the coolies that were doing work around the airport and not the officers, the Chinese Officers and so on. Probably some of the Chinese that were working on the airplanes, not the mechanics but the others were doing various things. I think that that’s probably what he meant. That’s the only thing I can think of at the present time. BUSTER KEETON: Chennault told us not to get too friendly with certain Chinese people because they would lose respect for us as American pilots. Now this was not by any means all of the Chinese. Certain part of the Chinese I think the Coolies that worked on the airplane and the house boys and the some other types that supposedly look up to us. �FRANK BORING: Can you comment on your belief if that Chennault was given the right amount of airplanes, he could accomplish a lot more? BUSTER KEETON: I think without a doubt if we’d of had spare parts, more airplanes and some bombers we could have really stalked the whole nations of China and maybe Burma and French Indo China. Cause we could have hit them from the backside. Without the airplanes and the spare parts there’s no way to do it and especially as far as the AVG is concerned, we didn’t even have the spare parts to even do more than what we did and we could have done a lot more too. But without spark plugs and propellers, it’s a little hard to fly an airplane and tires were a difficult.... very hard supplies to get. FRANK BORING: Why do you think the US army didn’t give Chennault…? BUSTER KEETON: I really don’t know why. We would hear rumors flying like mad at Kunming. Rumors that a plane load of tires were coming in but they didn’t come in. Then we’d hear a plane load of spark plugs or propellers or so on, but they didn’t seem to ever get there, just enough to keep us going as good as we could go. We always had airplanes that could have been fixed if we’d of had the spare parts. FRANK BORING: Why do you think the American military didn’t supply all those things to Chennault? BUSTER KEETON: I really don’t know, at the time I thought they really didn’t want to supply it because the so called Generals were jealous of Chennault because he was getting so much publicity especially back in the states. They kicked him out of the army once and he was a civilian. Along about this time I guess is when he was being inducted back but he was going to be junior to all of the generals out there so... FRANK BORING: On Feb. 28th there was a big banquet by Chiang Kai-shek and Madame Chiang Kai-shek and Chennault got up and made a speech also. I wonder if you could tell us about that banquet? �BUSTER KEETON: I think that’s the banquet that the Generalissimo and the Madame gave. The Generalissimo gave a real good speech thru the interpreter. Madame gave a beautiful speech and I think isn’t that the one where she said “you’re my boys” or I forgot the famous expression, it’s been in several books. Chennault gave a fine speech about what we had done and so on and so forth. Actually it seemed like they were throwing a lot of roses more so than we’d actually done. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 7 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton discusses their last days in Toungoo during a period of strafing and bombing and how General Chennault didn't receive adequate supplies at the time. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5fb908e38222601141752c0ff174d981.mp4 cf2840d173c827acdf33b3b68dcea92d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/259ede99d6db770a3541bee02f8694a0.pdf b3badfcd17e9eaa009e333a4aab44fca PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FRANK BORING: The crew chiefs fixed the airplanes and you would check it out? BUSTER KEETON: Actually I probably was a little bit supervising. We had great crew chiefs, but you kind of had to coordinate between the crew chiefs, the amours and then Goyette. He was running the station, most of his stuff was sending messages and getting messages between Rangoon and Toungoo and Toungoo and Kunming. So I would presume that probably I was the coordinator between the crew chiefs and the amours and myself to get the airplanes fixed so they could go back to combat. FRANK BORING: You refer to taking off a distributor cap that was having a problem and you were checking out distributor cap. Did you actually have to do repairs yourself? On the airplanes? BUSTER KEETING: No, I didn’t do any work on the airplane. All I did was try to coordinate between the crew chiefs , the amours and of course we had a lot of, not too many in Toungoo, but we had some of course the Chinese that were fantastic at getting the when an airplane was shot up getting the holes patched together, they were fantastic. FRANK BORING: Let’s go into the conditions as much detail as possible. Mention the Chinese and what they did and how you were coordinating the work and the working conditions they were under. �BUSTER KEETON: The working conditions at Toungoo were not the greatest. One thing is the weather, the other was we’d keep getting a little scares of some of the Burmese were not too friendly with the English and were possibly might get a little sabotage. To try to get an airplane put together they had to rob from other airplanes and do patch work of which sometimes you’d think just couldn’t be done but somehow they got done and I really don’t know a lot of times how things got done. Somehow we did it. But due to the people who really put out. They worked night and day and they, the ones that worked, were all first class people and they really put in a job. FRANK BORING: Let’s talk about an airplane that’s brought in, that’s been shot. What kind of things did you have to do to get it back in the air and who did it? BUSTER KEETON: The crew chiefs we had there would take it into the boondocks and really start to work on it there. They did all the work and they got the airplane to where with the help of the Chinese and some Burmese employees they’d get it into flying condition. Then we’d take it over to the amours and they would bore sight the guns and I think we were down to about 300 yards then, we would bore sight them in. Then I would take the airplane up and if it was on an alert, which we would try to do but to keep down the amount of flying time. If it was an alert why then I’d have to take it up and check it out anyway. Normally it didn’t take a long checkout - pretty quick 30 minutes, I would say is about the average. Take the airplane down and notify Rangoon that the airplane was ready and usually I’d fly down and pick up another one that was in bad shape and bring it back. FRANK BORING: What is bore sighting? BUSTER KEETON: Bore sighting is when you have all of the guns in the ,like in the old P40 B, we had the Two 50's thru the prop and the two 30's in each wing and we would have them coming into a small circle as small as we could get it at 300 yards. All of the bulls coming in, so �that would be the focal point when you got in combat. If you got a guy at 300 yards why you had all of them hitting him and pretty close to the same spot. I’ve forgotten how small that circle was we tried to get them in but it wasn’t too large. FRANK BORING: During this period of time you had airplanes coming and going and personnel and whatnot. Did you know what was going on? Was there enough communications that you knew what was going on in Kunming and you knew what was going on with the other guys? BUSTER KEETON: I knew quite a bit. Not as much as Goyette. He handled all of the paperwork and what he told me or if he’d show me a message and then we had a telephone connection when it worked between Toungoo and Rangoon. I had a pretty good idea of what was happening, not any of the details, but generally. FRANK BORING: In one case, you mention in your diary that you actually decoded a message from Brett to Chennault. Do you recall? BUSTER KEETON: The message I saw was decoded probably by the British or Goyette. I do think probably I saw that message. Mostly we heard about what was happening back in the U.S., was from the war correspondents. And they had ways of getting information in and out. FRANK BORING: Could not hear the interviewer due to faulty tape. BUSTER KEETON: Boy that I recall real well. Boyington just was really gassed and he was having trouble starting to sing and I don’t know if Goyette had sent me out there I’ve forgotten. Anyway, I was out there and I got on the wing and started talking to Greg and he and I had been fairly good friends on the ship going over. We had one argument, but as a rule we got along pretty good, and so except for one night on board ship I talked him out of it and got him out of the airplane and he was so used to the gills and of course Croft?, he’d do �anything Boyington did so he was no problem. But he slept it off; I think the next day and flew up to Kunming. FRANK BORING: Does that come back to you now? BUSTER KEETON: One night, we’d, I hadn’t had a drink but I was in the john on the throne and Boyington come in and he was pretty loaded to the gills. He said something like get the hell out of there or something and then he slammed the door to the john. So the john had a bar up above so I grabbed a hold of the bar and I kicked the door open with both feet and hit him right in the nose and to this day, I don’t think he ever knew what happened to him. Knocked him out cold for about 5 or 10 minutes. But never had any problem with him after that and he never knew what had happened so quick and he was so drunk he never knew what happened. But he could raise hell. He was the best hell raiser actually I ever knew. FRANK BORING: During this period of time, I wonder if you could comment on learning about the death of Christman. BUSTER KEETON: Bert Christman, yea that shook me quite a bit. He was a real fine, I didn’t know him as well as the other boys even though we both came from Bosen [?], Colorado because he was four or five classes ahead of me at Pensacola and he lived on the upper deck and I was down on the lower deck. But all of the conversations I’d had with him at Toungoo he was very helpful and he clued me in on a lot of things about flying the P40 that were a great help. And then another about flying, formation. I’d had one flight were I flew formation on him and was just fantastic. It was quite a blow and of course then Tommy Cole when he went in why that was a real blow because Tommy and I had been real close. And not knowing whether he was shot down from the ground or whether or exactly what happened, well it was hard to take at that time. FRANK BORING: Also during this period of time, we are talking late January, was the first mention of induction of the AVG. That the AVG would �somehow be inducted into the army or the air corps. Do you recall the first rumors that there was going to be a change? BUSTER KEETON: I don’t recall the first rumors at any place except when we got up into Loiwing, Lashio, Magwe. Then that’s when the rumors kind of started flying around. FRANK BORING: One of the things we found kind of interesting is a lot of the things that you picked out to mention in your diary. You mentioned having your first glass of milk since SF. Do you happen to remember that? BUSTER KEETON: I remember going up to this place where they had - the British had some dairy cows and I’d forgotten all about that. Quite a feat - get a glass of milk in Burma. So the British did some good things that were there. FRANK BORING: You apparently did some duck hunting during this period of time. BUSTER KEETON: Yea, we took a day off, I think. Yeager was his name. He and I we took a day off and went duck hunting. Neither one of us had shot a gun for some time, so we had a few misses but we got a few ducks. I can’t remember what we did. We brought them back and cooked them at the barracks or what. But anyway, we had a lot of fun, it was a great day. FRANK BORING: A little bit of celebrating done too with Keller and with Unger. Do you recall that particular period of time? BUSTER KEETON: I don’t recall. FRANK BORING: In February, things started to heat up. In fact, February 3rd, 1942, there was a bomb attack at Tiger Base and you got airborne and discovered you didn’t have any oxygen. Can you tell us about that incident? �BUSTER KEETON: Yea. I got up and had to turn the oxygen back in the baggage compartment and I forgot to turn it on in the excitement. I was trying to get up in the air. So when I got up course went to [?] down and put my oxygen mask on, I wasn’t getting any oxygen but we knew that there was airplanes in the area, so I kept on climbing. I was trying to climb up into the sun and to shoot somebody down if possible. Wasn’t too long, 15, 20 minutes something like that, maybe 30, I felt a little not nauseated, a little dizzy or something so I started - I figured I’d have to go down because I wasn’t getting any oxygen and I just sort of fell off and right below me is this twin engine airplane down there. I was a little woozy, I wasn’t sure if it was a bomber or what. Anyway, I still had sense enough to charge the guns and to open up on him. But I just kept on going because I knew I couldn’t pull back up and go up to the altitude without losing him. Well, I thought I’d lose my senses, I might have been able to but I didn’t take the chance. And so I went on down then and flew around a while way up north of the field and then came back and landed so I thought I’d shot him down. Wasn’t positive but I know there was smoke coming out of one or two of the engines and, but on the other hand, I wasn’t positive, but I believe it was the next day, that the head man of the village which was about three miles maybe four north and east of the airport at Kyedaw. Brought in a piece of a tail and an aileron off of an airplane that he said crashed the previous day. And the Japanese – not the Japanese - the English that were still on the base said it didn’t come off of theirs and our crew chiefs, plus whatever Americans we had there, didn’t recognize it at all. So we determined that that must of been the airplane that I’d shot down. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 6 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton describes his work coordinating repairs with crew chiefs and the working conditions in Toungoo, in addition to the loss he experienced with Bert Christman and Tommy Cole. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7c911e1462fbf0bfa99a01bab9133d20.mp4 35337c80e1e1ca646737dd2c8fa976b6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/323df9b83274367b510f9b7c51bb85dc.pdf 15ff7152dba2dcfe4bb92c577767a847 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of the differences of the types of things that were done in the military and the types of things that were done with the AVG. BUSTER KEETON: Well, in the AVG, there was no saluting; there was sort of a muster type but not really a muster type. We didn’t line up for the mess hall and the relationship between the pilots and the MX was not military type, it was more or less “How ya doin’? How’s it goin’? The airplane ok?” We had no uniforms, we wore any kind of a uniform. Some wore a fatigue, navy fatigues other army fatigues. Some just what we had brought along. So in that respect it was strictly a civilian outfit. On the other side we still sort of observed a military type operation. FRANK BORING: What was your relationship with your crew chiefs or your mechanics as you put it? BUSTER KEETON: My relationship with my crew chiefs was just first class. We had great crew chiefs. Johnny Carter did most of the crewing on the airplanes I flew and he was one of the best. A good crew chief, a real gentleman. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of what it was like to go onto your airplane with the crew chief waiting? What kind of conversations did you guys have? �BUSTER KEETON: Well, a conversation with a crew chief mostly you just wanted to know if the airplane was ok and then you’d ask how things were going and if there was anything wrong with it why if you had an alert it would be ok. Just mostly you were both interested in the airplane. So that’s what most of the conversation was about, in my experience anyway. FRANK BORING: There was an incident of someone forging their name to get some supplies, you thought some unscrupulous individuals on Chennault's staff. Do you recall any of these incidents of people you thought were not doing the same kind of job you were? BUSTER KEETON: At this time, I’m sure there might have been people doing things maybe to take advantage, but at this time I can’t recall and I can’t think of instance. FRANK BORING: You would have a pretty strong reaction to Pearl Harbor happening which in your part of the world was December 8th. Your first reaction and comment was that the military base got caught by surprise and one of your quotes I like very much you were commenting on the [?] silk admirals which you thought were going to make a mess out of things. Could you give us your first impression, your reaction to hearing about Pearl Harbor? BUSTER KEETON: Well my first reaction was I didn’t believe it. I thought that somebody got something on the radio or somebody’s pulling a joke. I didn’t think that at first we’d actually get caught and I felt like for some time that we weren’t prepared in the Navy like we should have been, because it just looked like the war was coming and we should be doing more. I made the mistake probably of saying it and putting it in my diary - about the [?] so bad [?] - guess that’s probably what a young ensign would say if he didn’t have to stand up to them. But I was amazed I react, it just didn’t seem it could possibly happen, but it did. �FRANK BORING: You mentioned that Chennault gave a rather enthusiastic talk about this is war, this is the real thing. Can you recall or give us an idea of what it was that Chennault was telling you at that time? BUSTER KEETON: If I remember correctly, after Pearl Harbor it happened. Chennault called a meeting. First he put one of the squadrons. Went on alert and he called a meeting of the rest of the people and said “Now we’re in war and the only thing I can remember from the speech outside of that we’re in war and we’ve got to snap to and do our job, was that we’d probably be moving to Kunming and take over the fight for the Chinese hitting the Japs from the backside of which they had all of north side and east China and we would probably get into actual combat and things might be differently now than what we’ve been led to believe, that our job would just be protecting the Burma road. FRANK BORING: Can you give us comments about the British that were there in Rangoon? What were your comments and what did you observe about how they were dealing with the war time situation? BUSTER KEETON: My personal impression of the British in Burma was that they were not actually fighting a war. They were enduring a war, putting up with a war. It seemed like the war was getting into the way of the things they wanted to do, rather than fight a war, such as take time off for tea in the middle of the afternoon even if there was an alert. Or there should be things done. I’m sure most of the other guys thought the same - you’re not going to win a war this way. FRANK BORING: On December 10th, there was an alarm and given the fact that Pearl Harbor had just happened and Chennault had made this speech about the fact that you were now at war and things were going to be different, you commented on this waiting or an attack you said “half anxious and half amazed.” I wonder if you could give us an idea of whether you were aware of the risk that was involved. That you felt vulnerable being in this airfield and �perhaps not ready to take on the Japanese. Could you recall those early days when an alarm went off and what was your reaction? BUSTER KEETON: My reaction the first alert we got, I think probably was more an amazement and not really as concerned as I should be because I wasn’t really sure what was going on. I didn’t quite know what to expect, but later on the bomb started coming down and strafed why it was a different story. You needed to hit the ditch and you knew what was coming and thank god you got in the right ditch. If you were caught on the ground. FRANK BORING: You made notations in your diary; you definitely were not ready for combat. Hadn’t had enough flight time. Can you give us an idea, especially since alarms were going off and Pearl Harbor had happened? Give us your own personal feelings about being ready for combat. BUSTER KEETON: Well, definitely when Pearl Harbor happened, I hadn’t had enough time in the P-40, I felt in my own mind to actually go into combat. On the other hand, I had had enough time in the airplane that I think that if I had gone into combat, I could have done a fairly good job. I wouldn’t have been an ace pilot like the boys that had flown it and had a lot of time, I know that. But still on the other hand, the best way to learn is to get in and be a part of it. Once you have the mechanism of the airplane set up and the fire power which I didn’t have completely at that time. FRANK BORING: Do you recall there was a forced landing of a DC 3 during this period of time, about the 22nd of December? Do you recall that happening? BUSTER KEETON: BTC a forced landing? It was a forced landing at Toungoo, if I remember correctly. I remember the forced landing, I forgot actually what happened, but it worked out alright. I remember that, but I’ve forgotten what caused it. �FRANK BORING: On the 24th and then Christmas day in Burma, there was concern about the number of planes that were ready to go up. At this time, I guess you were helping to check out the airplanes. BUSTER KEETON: The 24th of December, I was the only flying pilot stationed still in Toungoo. Eddie Goyette, he was the head man at the station and I was doing all of the test flying and getting all of the airplanes [?] sided plus whenever we’d get an alert, if I could get in a plane fast enough before they bombed, why I’d take off hoping I’d find one that I could shoot down. I’d rather shoot him down then me of course. That was the job I had there. I didn’t ask for it and how I got it, I have no idea. I think possibly because I didn’t have enough experience in the P-40 and that’s why I don’t know if Newkirk decided I should stay there or whether Goyette had requested me. Because Goyette was not going to fly in combat or do any flying unless it was absolutely necessary. FRANK BORING: Now also during this time, newer pilots were coming in and some were taking it a little less seriously. You actually caught Grow drunk in the cockpit trying to start it up at 12:30 in the morning. Could you tell us about that incident please? BUSTER KEETON: I don’t remember the exact circumstances, I suppose I had to go out that early in the morning, in the middle of the night almost, why I’ve forgotten, but anyway here was Cliff, this airplane tanked to the gills trying to get it started. He couldn’t quite hack it, thank God he couldn’t. Or I’m sure he probably would have banged it up and might have killed himself. But Cliff was alright, he was just young and he’d had a lot of land plane experience, well I don’t knew a lot, that he thought he was a pretty competent pilot. FRANK BORING: You also made references to Raines and to Donovan. Their behavior was apparently pretty wild too. Can you comment on that? �BUSTER KEETON: Well, I’ve forgotten the reason that Raines and Donovan were there at Toungoo. I’m trying to remember but I don’t know there’s a lot of things that we all had to buckle in and do and it wasn’t all flying it was a lot of other. I can’t think - well there were a lot of things that had to be done besides just standing by on alert or taking up hoping you could get up before they’d come over with a raid. Goyette had had a couple of discussions with the two individuals and they were kind of dogging it at the time, no doubt about it. I think they realized it later on. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of what your duties were at the time. Your journal referred to like supervising repairs. You were a pilot and there were crew chiefs to do all kind of work, I don’t understand why you were having to be careful about the engines and what was wrong about the engine. BUSTER KEETON: When I was at Toungoo I was doing lots of things. Probably a lot of things I wasn’t supposed to be doing. We had two fine mechanics there, Walker and Kenner, if I remember two real fine mechanics. We had amour, a big moose a great one. We were all in the thing together and I, to be honest with you I was probably just a one man air force there, because if anything came over or they wanted an interceptor observation plane, why I was always taken off and hoping I would see one which I never did ‘til later on around Feb. 3rd. But I was doing a little bit of everything just to keep the base going. Of course after Christmas why that’s when they’d bring up the shot up airplanes and we’d try to get them repaired and we’d ferry them back down to Rangoon or mostly ferry then back down and sometimes Goyette would go along on those flights. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 5 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton discusses the differences he experienced serving in the military and the AVG, in addition to his reaction to the news of Pearl Harbor and the days that followed. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90ebf6c27104c38e96e169d8133d4c58.mp4 689088ef6f4ff42e2c61f2f1df53e408 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a5152efa58c02d690f53da89e84febcd.pdf 1d483d8c56c9047c37cf60d2596a507d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: Let’s talk about your impressions of his lectures. What kind of things did you learn? Did he impress you as somebody who knew what he was talking about? BUSTER KEETON: The lectures that Chennault gave to all of the new pilots coming in was quite impressive to me of course coming and being a P boat pilot. Especially the tactics were altogether different than what I had gotten in Pensacola. One thing was we were, instead of the three plane element why, we would be flying two planes element and the other thing that I remember definitely is that you [?] with the I-97 and I-98 or I-99 whichever it was, could we have a fight with. There was no way that the Colonel kept telling us… There’s no way that you can dogfight with the small Japanese fighters because they could turn insight of you and just the best maneuver was to get an advantage shot and then if they whipped around on your tails then you could come back and try and get them again. That’s the first time that I’d heard of such a tactic then. Course talking to the people that had been there before that had gone thru the instructions said that was the way that we were going to do the fighting when we had to do it and it turned out in the long run that was the maneuvers that was used all the time that we were in combat with the Japanese. BUSTER KEETON: Well, I would think that he was a very good teacher because he’s real determined and insightful and he had a lot to say and oh, �Chennault. Chennault was a real fine teacher from the fact that he was straight forward and everything he had to say about fighter tactics and ah, what he had learned by observing the Japanese when they were fighting the Chinese and the Chinese fighting the Japanese. And uh, I thought he was one of the best I’d ever uh, had the privilege of being around. FRANK BORING: Could you give us an idea of your first experience with the P40? Just comments about when you got a chance to actually get into the cockpit and familiarize yourself with it. BUSTER KING: My first experience flying a P40, I was shaky because especially the army pilots were telling us what an awful hard airplane this was to fly and you Navy boys coming out of P Boats why you’re going to find this more than you can handle. I was a little shaky. The first flight up - nobody was more surprised than I was when I came down and made a good landing. Thank gosh. It was just like any other airplane once you got used to it, why it was a fine flying machine. Very fine airplane, fact I don’t think we could have any better. I guess the 51 would have been better if we’d of had it but we didn’t have it and there’s nothing that I know that would have been a better airplane than the P40 under the circumstances. FRANK BORING: Once you had a chance to fly it and to land it, how did you look at the other pilots that were flying with you? You mentioned about [Thomas] Cole who was flying with you. You saw [Thomas] Cole coming in for a landing and you said he did a typical Cole stunt. Do you know what that meant? That’s a direct quote from your diary. BUSTER KEETON: I can’t… FRANK BORING: Were there any of the things when you watched other pilots take off and land, did you think I’m not going to do that? Or I should learn that... �BUSTER KEETON: Well, we had some pilots that had some bad experiences. Especially one that came out of the patrol planes which probably gave most of the patrol pilots a bad name was Conant. Very fine guy but he had a lot of trouble flying the P-40's especially landing it and he ended up I think tearing up about 3 of them. Not landing them correctly. The pilot would say ground looping which meant that he didn’t land the airplane like he should have and messed up the landing gear. In some places did damage to the wing and the prop and the props were pretty precious. But I tried to watch everybody especially on the landings until I got familiar and then as soon as I got familiar, the airplane was not a bad airplane to land at all. Just be careful. Fly it don’t let it fly you. FRANK BORING: Let’s stay with the P40 and your experiences with the P40. Can you give us a sense of what it was like to fly the P40? Give us an idea of what it was like. BUSTER KEETON: The P40 was a lot different than any airplane I had flown, actually had ever flown. All of the land planes that I had flown in the Navy were much lighter, not as heavy. In fact, didn’t have near the speed that the P-40 had so even in the air in the first flight, it was quite a different experience and it took two or three hours and then fake dog fights with other people to really get the feel of the airplane and once you got the feel of it why then it flies like any airplane. After a few flights I got into a fake dog fight with a couple of the boys and did alright which surprised me I was quite happy with it. FRANK BORING: When you got into it, was it like you turned a key or something? BUSTER KEETON: Well, I’m trying to think and isn’t that something I don’t recall. FRANK BORING: One of things that you mentioned is these fake dog fights; I understand that there was a real close call with Tex Hill one time. Can you tell us about that? �BUSTER KEETON: Tex Hill and I had a close call, gee I don’t...can’t think when that was. I remember poor Ol' Tex had a long landing one time at night. FRANK BORING: Can you tell us about that one? BUSTER KEETON: Yeah, they’d gone out on an alert as I remember and coming in why, all we had was lanterns along the side of the run way and Tex come in and he just was a little bit long and crashed off the end of the runway. We were all scared and he was ok and the airplane wasn’t hurt too much. It was very fortunate. It was just long with the lighting we had it was excusable for anyone to do something like that. FRANK BORING: During this period of training, you got a chance to meet some of the people outside of the pilot group and whatnot. You mention in your diary about playing cards with the Greenlaw's. Can you tell us anything about them, your impressions of them? BUSTER KEETON: At Toungoo I ran into Olga and Harvey Greenlaw. Harvey was second in command. Down at Toungoo, I only remember seeing Olga probably two or three times. But Harvey I would see quite often because he was out on the line quite a bit. But I never had too much conversation with Harvey for some reason or the other. I really don’t know exactly what he did except he was second in command. Apparently I guess he was supposed to do what the colonel told him to do - Chennault. I, later on, I used to think that Harvey didn’t carry out the orders too well. Even after I moved up to China, I never saw too much of Olga. I don’t know. FRANK BORING: Here’s a group of almost 300 men, a couple of nurses and here’s Olga Greenlaw. What was your impression of having this very attractive woman there? Did you have any reaction? BUSTER KEETON: No, I never saw her that much. I guess I was at the wrong place at the wrong time at the right time or the right place at the wrong time. I never saw Olga too much and you know actually except �with the arm problems I had at Toungoo, I never saw the Joe or Red Foster too much. They stayed pretty much to the hospital. Anyway they did a great job and everyone was very proud of both of them. And I think everybody was proud of Olga for what she did. I think she probably might have done more for the group by keeping some records than the Army did. FRANK BORING: You mention in your diary, what you call the foolish behavior of some of the pilots in Toungoo. Here was a group of guys free from the military and now out in the middle of the jungles of nowhere and your learning to fly planes and everything and some of them took it a little more seriously than others. Do you have any comments about your observations of the pilots? BUSTER KEETON: I probably boned down quite a bit in trying to learn the airplane. When I got in I’d try to fly it better than some of the other people because I’d come out of patrol planes and I hadn’t flown land planes in about 3 years and everything had been sea planes from what all of the boys would tell you how hard it was to fly. I worked a little bit too hard and maybe some of the guys who were taking it easy why maybe I thought they were goofing off or something. But in their own right, maybe they weren’t. FRANK BORING: You had come out of the military environment with uniforms, rank, and certain steps you had to do throughout your time in the military. Give us your idea between the military as you knew it and the AVG. BUSTER KEETON: Actually at the beginning of the AVG at Toungoo was pretty much I felt the same as military. We had a commanding officer Colonel Chennault and everyone respected him. We had a squadron leader and a vice squadron leader and we had a flight leader and of course at that time I was a wing man. So it pretty much resembled being in the military and that’s sort of the way I looked at it. And I know that there were some people that didn’t they figured they were all civilians and they could do what they wanted to do and some of �them did. But I personally, I kind of looked at it as a military operation which you pretty much had to make it successful. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 4 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton discusses his appreciation of General Chennault's teachings for new pilots and his first experience flying a P-40 plane for the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/71886425d88e1389e6e01d355047d001.mp4 4fc160f7f54353a86d619e2f23103fd3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d07c82e07a3d204583cc4bb6c8a5b043.pdf ca043b4f17628c5c7155e2357025b8bb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: If you could tell us about your visit with the Sultan, please? BUSTER KEETON: When we landed in Singapore, course everybody headed for the Raffles Hotel so they could get a Singapore Sling of which most people had heard about While there, the Sultan of Johore was having a little party and he invited all of us to join in on his party and while we were joining in on the party he had asked us if we’d like to come over and see his palace and all of these grounds which were very beautiful and so on. He said that he’d been having so much trouble with the British recently that they wouldn’t let him stay in Singapore overnight anymore so he had to leave before dark. But he had all the arrangements made and the cars to pick us up. I think there must have been 8 or 9 maybe 10 of us and the cars picked us up the next morning at the hotel and took us to this next little island. We went across this estuary, a bridge there and that was the Sultan’s place and whoever it was handed him a piece of paper and he read it and they opened up the gates and then we had guides. A very beautiful palace, fantastic!! Very similar, I would guess to the one down south, I can’t think of the name of it. Then the grounds just beautiful grounds, flowers of shapes and bushes and plants so we had a very pleasant day and back to Singapore and then we went out to the new world and had the new world, the old world and mostly it was sort of a dance hall and then back to the ship and we took off for Rangoon. �FRANK BORING: What was your first impression upon your arrival in Rangoon? Were there people there to welcome you from the AVG or CAMCO? What was your general impression? BUSTER KEETON: When we arrived at Rangoon there was somebody there from CAMCO with instructions and I’m sure that they had the cars available or Taxis and took us right up to CAMCO office where we were to sign in and make out some pay slips and do some paper work. When I walked in the office, the first person I saw was Ethel Sarkisian who was the wife of one of my old school mates back in Colorado and I had no idea that she was in that part of the world. So I got to talk to her and she told me about the terrific accident she’d been in coming down the Burma Road. They were going up the road in a truck and another one coming down and they got pushed over the bank. She lay there, I think for around 12 or 13 hours if I’m correct with her pelvic broken and several bones and course her face was kind of messed up. But anyway that was kind of a pleasant surprise and she had survived this and you could hardly tell that she’d been thru this ordeal. But Sarkisian was out of town at that time and he, which I found out later on, was starting up free Danish underground, which later on would pass thru China and behind the Japanese lines to do demolition and so on. But then, we only spent two or three hours at the CAMCO office and got right on the train and headed for Toungoo which was to be our training base. FRANK BORING: If you can go back to that time of getting your first impression of walking off and there’s the base at Toungoo. What did you see around you, what was your first impression of what you saw? BUSTER KEETON: Well, actually when we got off of the train at Toungoo, it wasn’t too bad in my circumstances cause if I remember correctly the first two people I saw were Tommy Cole and Pappy Paxton who I lived with at North Island so I didn’t give much thought to what, although it seemed like it was awfully hot. Course it was night too. The railroad station which turned out to be one of the best spots in �town why that’s where we landed. Then we got on the lorries or trucks the back of the truck with our baggage and headed out to Kyedaw to the airport and then. At night it didn’t look too bad because they were just regular barracks with the netting and so on but finally after we talked for a long time, finally got in the rack with mosquito netting around, it wasn’t long before flashlights were flying around and guys were shooting their 45’s trying to get these rats crawling around. So it was quite an awakening and course we were kind of worn out but anyway we woke up in a hurry wondering what was going on. FRANK BORING: What happened the next morning? What was the initial introduction if you will to the AVG? BUSTER KEETON: I think the next morning they had a reveille or I don’t remember exactly how it was done. We were awakened and then we all went to the mess hall, had breakfast and then the new recruits, as I remember we were taken or walked, I think we rode our bicycles down to the hanger and that’s where we first had the encounter with the old man Chennault. He didn’t have too much to offer as I remember at that time. Just welcomed us to get squared away and get you trained here in a real short while and get you underway and then we checked in with a squadron and I checked in to squadron Two which Jack Newkirk that I’d know back at Pensacola was the squadron leader and most all day was just going to the squadron and the old man welcomed us and they told us what to do and then of course, I was fortunate, Tommy and Pappy were both in the Second squadron which I was signed to. They told me everything to do or what to do so it made it very easy. There was no problem whatsoever. FRANK BORING: In your diary, you mention right around the beginning period, you got sick. Apparently you got pretty sick. Do you recall? Was it the food? BUSTER KEETON: Was this at Toungoo? I don’t recall, I don’t... �FRANK BORING: You got some boils on your arms. Here you are arriving in this camp and all of a sudden you got some physical problems. BUSTER KEETON: It seemed like the darn hands and arms were all broken out and I went down to Doc Gent or Prevo might have been Doc Rich. He used, what do you call that velvet stuff? They don’t use it any more but he painted my whole arms with it - they were sore. I don’t know might have been today you call it psoriasis. Whether that was it or not, I don’t know or it could have been a fungi of some kind. FRANK BORING: What was the food like? BUSTER KEETON: At Toungoo, I didn’t think it was too bad. It was a lot better than what I expected. It wasn’t good, but it wasn’t bad. Because Chennault pretty well had it you know, got cooks in the restaurant and the service was good. We had such fantastic food on the boat or the ship I should say it didn’t compare to that. But hell, in the long run, it was better than what I expected. FRANK BORING: We will be talking about Chennault throughout the interview, but if you can recall what struck you the most about Chennault. BUSTER KEETON: Course we’d heard so much about, I guess we called him, he was a Major at that time, but I think we called him Colonel Chennault and the first impression to me was that his features were very much like the old Indian Head. You know we used to see in the Cigar Store corner. Very distinguished. Seemed to be a man who knew what the heck he was doing and how to do it. He impressed me very much. I don’t know quite else what. FRANK BORING: Could you describe the first training experiences you had in November? What was your pilot - what was the first training experience, especially considering you’d never flown a P40 �before? If you could give us an idea of what those early training days in November were like. BUSTER KEETON: The first thing that I can recall at this time was Tommy Cole took me out to P40 and I think we spent a good three or four hours just going over everything about the airplane. Then it was, within a day, then we were told because they’d had some accidents that all of the people who’d come in on the last ship that hadn’t flown fighters, would be getting some training in the two seater, a two seater airplane and we would get take offs and landings and we had some time to go out and stunt a little especially because the propaganda was that the P40 was real hard to land because of the narrow landing gear. So, I think it was possibly four or five days before any of us got our first flight. Then we got a few hours, but I remember I was delayed because of the arm thing and Doc. Gentry if I’m correct, wanted me to take it easy and he felt it might have had something to do with nerves. Possibly, I certainly wasn’t nervous. Anyway so I missed probably a couple of flights and if I remember correctly we were supposed to get either four or five flights and we’d go into the P40 and get our checkout. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 3 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton discusses his first impressions upon arrival in Rangoon and later at the base in Toungoo, in addition to his initial introduction to the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2f2ff7ccffd24e3b65aa382a363d80b.mp4 1be9d20ea99a525390ec8fb07b031b86 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/77ead83d0b1675d4b3679979cd801cf5.pdf 5c6f0fea73316c18df776ffcf2898bca PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: If you could just talk about the days that you spent with these people before you actually went to China. BUSTER KEETON: Before our boat sailed out of San Francisco, we had about three setbacks. So every time we’d have a setback, I’d go back down to Southern California where my friends were - Andy and Doogie Devine, and Lou and Linda Crosby, and Tuffy and Liz Goff. How I met these people was through Lou Crosby who I went to college with back in Colorado. Then Andy and I when I was stationed at North Island, we went sword fishing and both caught a sward fish and this is quite a story in itself. We both caught one at the same time and thank gosh we had a good boatsman, finally we got them both in and usually you have to cut one loose. So I’d make a trip up to San Francisco to catch the boat and it would be delayed another week and I’d get on an airplane, fly back down. We would spend our time, well, we’d either go fishing or we didn’t play golf in those days, I don’t know, just sitting around telling lies and laughing at those people. That Andy and Tuffy are two of the funniest people that you ever met. And later on in life they were good friends to Phil Harris who Mave [?]. And I finally met and the three of them, I’m telling you. Something else. But that’s where I was spending most of my time, before we finally caught the ship and we took off. �FRANK BORING: When you, in September of 1941, is this the same period of time that you met John Wayne? BUSTER KEETON: Yeah, but I can’t remember where we met him. Late at night in some bar. One night when it was late we were in some bar in Hollywood we ran into John Wayne. I don’t know, at the time, I didn’t think much of him. Why, I really don’t know because later on I had a chance to meet him several times with Andy. In fact, several times when I was flying the airline - the old Boeing 377 from Paris to New York, I had him up in the cock pit for the whole trip and he couldn’t be a more delightful individual. So it goes to show, the first meeting isn’t always the greatest. FRANK BORING: In 1941, September you had some meetings with the CAMCO Representative, the actual representative from CAMCO. Do you recall what it was they were telling you to expect? What they expected of you? BUSTER KEETON: When we had a meeting with the representatives before the CAMCO people before we took off, I’m really not sure what all went on except they told us what would be the procedure aboard ship and then when we got to Rangoon why we’d get our pay checks for the money that hadn’t been advanced to us previously and how our money - we would get so much and then the rest would be sent home to our bank. Pretty much they did a good job, they filled us in on I think everything they possibly could have. I thought the relationship was real good at that time and most everything they told us - meeting in San Francisco and what happened on the ship and what happened in Rangoon and then on up to Toungoo. Everything they told us pretty much turned out to be the fact. FRANK BORING: Did they state that you would have passage to China and then return passage at the end of the year? �BUSTER KEETON: As I remember, they said that we would have passage to China and yes, we’d have passage back to the United States. I’m almost positive that that was the statement that was made. Whether that was in the contract, I’m not sure because I haven’t seen the contract. Whether I ever saw one, I’m not sure. FRANK BORING: On the 24th, the Boschfontein departed from SF and in your diary you talked with Al Anderson. At the time you didn’t really know what was going on in the Far East but after talking to him he gave you a very different outlook on the Far East. Can you recall the conversation you had with him or what was it about the Far East that was different as he told it to you since he’d been there many times? BUSTER KEETON: The conversation I had with Anderson if I can remember it correctly, he had lots of experience in the Far East and actually I knew nothing about it and another thing if I remember correctly, he filled not only myself but several of the boys in that the Japanese were good pilots. They weren’t all wearing glasses and couldn’t see and they couldn’t shoot. He said they were very good pilots, very good at bombing and they shot straight. Of course, maybe it was joking between people, we’d always heard that they couldn’t shoot straight and all of this. Later we found out that they could shoot pretty straight. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of your fellow travelers on this boat? Not just the AVG but also some of the other people. BUSTER KEETON: There were several very, very interesting passengers. I don’t recall exactly everything about them, but there were quite a few missionaries of course and the missionaries were very interesting people, in fact it was one that had been a bishop in a church right close to where I lived, where I was growing up. But the other people were going over to fly for the Dutch in Dutch East Indies and very, very charming, very intelligent people. We had some very good relationships. I haven’t given it much thought lately, but �for years afterwards, I often wondered what happened to all those boys, some of the missionaries too. FRANK BORING: What kind of impression did you have of some of these guys who were going to China? I know you knew some of them already, but what was your first impressions of some of these guys you were with? BUSTER KEETON: I thought that the guys going over were all real clean cut and good guys. Some of them a little ornerier then others. We, I don’t like to talk about places, people - I might have said something in my diary about maybe Boyington drank too much or always wanted a fight or something like that. Which was true and then Prescott and Gun [?] all got in a little scrap and Smith who was the senior officer who always got us up for reveille wasn’t very well thought of. But all in all they were a fine bunch of people, all just real good. Charlie Bonn I remember that’s the first time I met him and George Burgard - just a real bunch of good guys - Jack Croft. We had a few scraps, seven weeks on a ship and a little drinking going on now and then and a few poker games, you get into some arguments. I remember Gun [?] and Prescott - they had a good argument one night but those things happen. FRANK BORING: Just for the flavor of it, in terms of worrying about Boyington or anyone like that, I can tell you right now that everyone’s talked about Boyington. The secret’s out. It’s not that we’re looking for dirt or we’re trying to stir up anything, we’re trying to get any incident on the boat that sticks out in your own mind from your own personal experience? BUSTER KEETON: Well the King Neptune is probably the thing that sticks out the most when we passed the, not the International Date Line, but the Equator. �FRANK BORING: Start from the beginning and say what about the King Neptune sticks out the most in your mind? Continue on from there. Just tell us as much detail as possible. BUSTER KEETON: What sticks out in my mind mostly on the boat trip was the King Neptune Court held when we passed over the Equator. They had the king and the queen as I remember, Charlie Bonn was the Queen and I’ve forgotten who the King was - maybe it was Rossi, I’m not sure. They’d stand you on the side of this pool and put you on this chair and then they’d slap this fish in your mouth and then they’d put some other gunk which didn’t taste very good. So everybody I think had a couple of beers, so we’d put up quite a fight to try to keep from getting shoved into the pool off of this chair. I think we all had a great time, it was a great day. Later on why, that as far as I can think is the most vivid thing on the trip. The rest, we’d stand watch up in the crow’s nest. We were always playing handball and after we got down to the warm part of the country in the swimming pool So everybody kept pretty active besides we weren’t drinking and playing cards all the time although we did a lot of it. FRANK BORING: You were at sea for quite a while, then you had a couple of stops on the way before you made it to Rangoon. Do you recall any of the shore leave or any of the time you spent off the ship? One of the places was in Bali right? BUSTER KEETON: Well we stopped off on the route first was Honolulu which was a very short stay and I had the duty so I had very little time although I finally got a hold of an old classmate I’d gone to college with. Then I went back and stood duty for the rest of stay in Honolulu. Our next stop was Surabaya in the Dutch East Indies and while there the ship was to go on up to Batavia and drop off a lot of the equipment they were hauling and then come back to Surabaya and then we’d take off for Singapore. While the ship went up to Batavia why we, several of us took a trip over to Bali and that’s quite an experience. We got on a train and took down to the - I �forgot the name of the estuary or whatever it was - then we got on a barge and had native cows, chickens and everything else. We got on the other side and we got on this bus and the same thing - cows, chickens, ducks whatever they could get on and then we had I think about a two or three hour ride up to Kuta Beach. This was a place that this gentleman from Southern California, L. A. or something place had gone over there a few years before and it was a beautiful beach. He had set up a little restaurant with some cabins and so on, so that’s where we stayed for I think it was two nights, possibly three. We’d go in to the little village and we’d do some shopping and some swimming. Then we’d take pictures of the Balinese girls, at that time the first we knew of that went around topless. Good stay. Then of course we were back to Surabaya and then on the ship and up to Singapore. FRANK BORING: As an American who had never been to the Far East, what was your reaction to this foreign country and these people wandering around in strange outfits and whatnot? BUSTER KEETON: Well on Bali, we went to see what they call a monkey dance and at the time it was pretty fantastic. I’ve pretty much forgotten the story of it, but it was something great. Then we went to another little place where the young males at a certain young age had to have their teeth filed off and boy that was weird. We went to the place where they laid the little male boys down and then this guy would file their teeth. Didn’t seem to hurt them but I don’t know how it kept from it. Then well, there were some more things there, I can’t recall at this time. FRANK BORING: When you returned to the boat, did you arrive in Rangoon soon after that? Did anything happen between Bali and Rangoon? BUSTER KEETON: From Bali, we went back to Surabaya and then Surabaya there had been these three people who had been in the same squadron that I’d been in in San Diego and they were instructors for the Dutch Navy there. Flying patrol planes and well, any type of plane and �one of the individuals who was there, Robby Robinson was engaged to Ann Nagel who was the movie actor at that time quite famous. He couldn’t get her out there and he couldn’t get back and he was really homesick plus lovesick. We spent quite a bit of time there and there was a place to go and have fun - course that Dutch beer was awfully good - called Chez Willys. We would usually meet there for lunch and they had the greatest prawns and Heineken beer. There were quite a few other Americans there too. From Surabaya we went to Singapore and we were in Singapore for three days and from Singapore, we went on to Rangoon. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 2 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton describes his experiences leading up to the journey overseas, the initial meetings with CAMCO, and traveling aboard the Boschfontein as they headed to Rangoon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2cbe1d2721cc97323e958d8bad3274dc.mp4 e036abac35d2bc114b41eaa1e6ef636a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df2cf00a239f5ceeb03c4d324e89f56f.pdf 8675aacea96a448ef3ddd6c2f9fb3a5f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert B. “Buster” Keeton Date of Interview: 05-29-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: What were you doing prior to joining the military? BUSTER KEETON: Before I joined the military, I was going to college, Colorado College in Colorado. The Navy was sending through recruiters for cadets for the cadet program down at Pensacola. Right after graduation, I got the word that I’d been accepted. So, we had to report to Oakland, they called the naval reserve base at that time. So that’s where I reported and I got my 8 hours of flying, and they turned me loose and I got the three bounces and then I was on my way to Pensacola. After a month, why then I reported down to Pensacola in the fall of 1938. FRANK BORING: What was it you were doing in Pensacola? What kind of flying? What kind of airplanes? BUSTER KEETON: The airplanes we flew, we had five squadrons at that time at Pensacola. There was the first squadron Sea Plane squadron, single engine on floats and the second squadron was the same kind of airplane, N3N’s which is a Navy version, built by the Navy. Then the SN which was a Stillman trainer and that was squadron 2. And then in squadron 3, why we had land planes where we started getting gunnery practice and those were the old observation planes and they scout - beginning of the dive bombs. Then in squadron 4 was Sea Planes - twin engine sea planes. Then from squadron 4 we �went to squadron 5 where we got an instrument flying an SNJ’s and then the little bit of fighter flying of which we got the old Boeing F4V4 which is the same as the army B 12. FRANK BORING: Who were some of the people that you met during your stay there in Pensacola? BUSTER KEETON: Well, there’s people I met while at Pensacola. Of course Tex Hill and I were classmates. John Hennessy was a classmate. Christman who was ahead of me a couple of classes, but came from Colorado. Talking about all of these boys landed in the American volunteer group. Bob Neale and Jack Newkirk and I lived in wing 3 the same wing. Bill Fish, who I knew, he lived upstairs some place. There’s more but I can’t think right now who they might be. FRANK BORING: What was it that interested you to get involved with flight, with airplanes to begin with? BUSTER KEETON: Well, actually the first, I don’t remember how young or how old I was, but Lindberg on one of his barnstorming flights before he made the trip across the Atlantic. He did that in 1927, so it probably had to be around 1924 or 25, I would have been about 9 or 10 years old. He made a forced landing - we had a farm just south of town in Southeast Colorado. He made a forced landing on this brand new hay field, kind of burnt my Dad up a little bit. He didn’t like his hay field - and so to make up for it, why I maneuvered some way to get a ride and that was the first time I ever saw an airplane and it ended up I got a ride out of it. From then until the Navy came recruiting through, I didn’t think much about it, because I didn’t have the opportunity. But when they came thru I was ready. Why I really don’t know. FRANK BORING: Begin by saying Lindberg on one of his barnstorming tours had a forced landing and then tell about how your father got burnt up and how you maneuvered a ride and that’s what got you interested in flying. �BUSTER KEETON: Lindberg on one of his barnstorming flights cross country before he made his trip across the water had a forced landing on my dad’s farm and landed in this new alfalfa field and sort of tore it up pretty good and coming out of that why I finagled a ride somehow. I’m not sure now how. But I got a ride and that was my first airplane ride. I think that that stuck with me and got me interested in flying and eventually I ended up in aviation. I spent 40 years of it. FRANK BORING: Your still in Pensacola, what were you doing just before you heard about the opportunity in China? What were you actually doing before you heard about the opportunity in China? BUSTER KEETON: That would be in San Diego. When I heard about the American Volunteer Group being formed, Tommy Cole was my roommate. I think probably the first person who heard about the meeting with this retired, Commander - retired Navy Commander. So Tommy Cole and I went over. He was having a meeting someplace on the island. We went over but the commander wouldn’t have anything to do with us because we were patrol plane pilots and he was looking strictly for fighter pilots at that time. Later on he couldn’t get enough fighter pilots so they started taking dive bomber pilots and that’s when Bob Neale, Tex Hill and a couple more of the boys signed up and then later on why they couldn’t get enough dive bombers, so they started taking patrol plane pilots and that's when Tommy Cole, Pappy Packs and my two roommates and myself and a few more of the boys like Benny Foshee they accepted us and we got to go. FRANK BORING: What was the interest you had... why would you even attempt to go and talk to this guy? BUSTER KEETON: I think several things. One thing is China, I’d never - I really didn’t know anything about China. A lot of the boys, like Rector had read Kipling all of his life. I don’t think I’d ever even heard of Kipling. China sounded like a good thing, plus the fact the squadron and �everybody on North Island pretty well knew that war was coming and when or how we didn’t know but this was a way to get into it quicker and help get it over with or something. Plus the fact that it was exciting, something different. I really don’t know what the number one answer is but I think just a lot of everything. FRANK BORING: Were you talking about the opportunity to the other guys. I mean was there bull sessions about China and Tex Hill telling you a little bit or Ed Rector telling you a bit? BUSTER KEETON: Before we signed up with AVG, Tommy Cole and Pappy Paxton and Betty Foshee and a couple, three of the other boys that didn’t go yet. Several conversations before they wouldn’t accept us and after they accepted us, and we all thought it was a great idea happy to go. Plus we weren’t getting as much flying and the main thing was we all wanted to be fighter pilots and we couldn’t, we were patrol plane pilots and I think really down if you got to the bottom of it that’s what it was mostly, getting to be a fighter pilot. FRANK BORING: What did you know about Japan at that time? BUSTER KEETON: The only thing I can remember about Japan at that time, is you would hear from different people in various places that we were selling all of our junk to Japan and a lot of the people especially the military people were thinking, which turned out to be correct that they were taking all of this junk and building into armament, eventually which they used against us. And how they did it and what shape, I’m not familiar with. It turned out that that’s when they built ships. I’m sure they didn’t build airplanes but I’m sure they could have built ships or something of that type. FRANK BORING: What was it about fighter airplane, the whole idea of being a fighter pilot that attracted you? BUSTER KING: I think being a fighter pilot, every pilot, especially when you are starting out to fly, wants to be a fighter pilot. I’ve never run into a �pilot yet in the beginning but what he wanted to be a fighter pilot. You’re young and full of “you know what” and that’s the best way to go. You don’t want to sit up in the big old sea plane and wallow around - you want to get out and be a fighter pilot and if you go to war why then you start shooting bullets and flying around. I think, later on you go into the airline or the bomber or the sea plane patrol or something, but in the beginning why the fighter pilot’s it. FRANK BORING: Did you ever get a chance to see the film footage that was shown before movies about the bombing of Chinese cities. Sometimes if you go to see a movie, they would have newsreels in the beginning. Do you recall ever seeing or did it ever affect you what was happening in China? Once you made the decision to go and they’ve gone thru the process of looking for fighter pilots and couldn’t get those and went to other ones and finally got down to accepting you, what was the process of resigning your commission? Was it an easy process or was it difficult - from the military point of view, letting you out of the military? BUSTER KEETON: To resign from the military at the time got to where I asked for my resignation, it was no problem what so ever because there had been so many before. The word had been sent down from the white house - President Roosevelt himself to let these people go. So I had no problem what so ever. All I really had to do was go up and ask for their resignation what I was going to do and the commander gave me the papers, I gave them to the squadron commander and as far as I know that’s all there was to it. I don’t remember anything more than just being anything more than just that. FRANK BORING: Once the decision had been made and you had already signed your papers, what did you tell your friends and family about what you were doing? Did you get a chance to talk to family members or friends? �BUSTER KEETON: Oh, yeah, before we went to China, I’m not exactly sure what we did tell them. It certainly wasn’t going over to do what we were doing, but I haven’t given any thought to that for so long, I’ve forgotten what it was, but it was something about maybe flying patrols up and down the Burma Road or something like that. Definitely not what was in the contract and that we were going to be in a fighting or shooting war. Nothing like that. I guess that’s about it. Can’t think of anything else. FRANK BORING: Was that out of concern of them worrying about you or… BUSTER KEETON: No, no. Everybody seemed to think it was a good idea. As far as I remember, my friends I knew in Southern California where I was based in the Navy. I remember we made a quick trip back to Colorado and saw my folks and friends there and they all - so whatever I told them they thought it was a good idea. I’m not sure what I told them now. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Keeton_Buster_1991-05-29_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keeton, Robert B. "Buster" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-29 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Buster" Keeton interview (video and transcript, 1 of 10), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert B. "Buster" Keeton by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Keeton served in the American Volunteer Group as a Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG in September 1941, and 2.5 confirmed victories in air combat against the Japanese. He remained with the AVG for one year, and returned to the United States in December 1942. In this tape, Keeton discusses what he was doing prior to joining the military and when he first learned of the opportunity to work with the American Volunteer Group in China. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8964250a35e216df68f0c7535370032f.mp4 1de168de9c03b23f3bd8de3a25fabd34 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01a2e05986df7ac34c39bf013b6b7d03.pdf 7690dff88ab2663d543eb9f325bc362f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Yu-Wei K'ang Date of Interview: 03-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] YU WEI: I think that was August 18, 1944 flight of 6 P-40's bombed the railroad across [?] Peikun [?] railroad. Captain Maloney was the leader and my flight was Lt. Chen. We decided to [?] locomotive, ammunition. So we went there to bomb and were told my Captain Maloney if the aircraft was so strong we just drop the bomb and leave. But Lt. Chen decided when we look at those locomotives, [?] we really what do you call it, blood thirsty or something. He made 8 passes, I was with him. And he was a very shot up. I told him, Lt. you flight near the mountain [?] there you went into the mountain. So you get away from Japanese, but he couldn't make it. He crash near a village. I had to protect him, he climb out he was captured and released as a P.O.W. came after the war. I was shot up I couldn't make it my temperature was high so I crashed in between the mountains and hit a big piece of stone and so I had a bad cut. I almost fainted and somebody came. You see when we went on combat mission we were given [?] the guys said we are guerrillas so I fainted. The next thing I knew they stopped by bleeding with a bunch of [?] you know. So then the Japs came across the rivers so we ran thru a mountain and in about 9 days I was in friendly hands. First the guerrillas I had nothing to eat except the piece of chocolate in the parachute. But we live on piece of parachute for many 2 or 3 days. Then I was stuck there. I had some complications and �they tiny landing strip there. About 3,000 feet or something. It was little rainy weather you know. All of a [?] a plane came over. I went to see a P-40 and he dove down and I know [?] a package would drop. You know what in the package? A canteen of bourbon whiskey, four pack of Lucky Strikes and some American dollars. I was so touched. All of a sudden I saw the aircraft landing lower the landing gear, trying to land. I try to stop them. That was Major Bill Turner. I said sir, why did you do that. Because it is too short, you wait exactly, he said exactly I cannot stand to see you stand there looking miserable. You know what he did he squeezed me to the radio compartment and flew me out. Because all along Japanese there is no transporting whatsoever. So this sort of comradeship - fraternity. This is how senior officer treat junior officer. This sort of spirit you don't see much. FRANK BORING: Looking back on that period of your life, when you were a young man, a cadet and all of this, how do you , what is your recollection, what is your feeling, what is your, in terms of where that fits into the rest of your life? YU WEI: Of course, you see, I want to, you see, I didn't even graduate from high school, because I was the last year, in '38, my last year of high school, but I had to run away because I was on the Japanese war list. I thought after war I come over and go back to the school. I think the government should give me some sort of support. But then starting war with the Communists. FRANK BORING: How do you look back on that period of time, though, in terms of years? Now you're a certain age, you have been established in your life and you... YU WEI: You see, let me add a little bit of politics. In Chew King Base [?], all the reports says multitudes of land reformed. They're just [?] they're not common soldiers, I mean, that's a lot of the �state department, now I can tell you who is a land reformer. Chung Gao [?] Multitu [?]. We're the most successful land reform program in the entire world. A lot of them in China. I went back to Mainland China last May, the first time in 41 years. I wasn't very happy. I mean I was, what it cost and the journey, but I was disappointed and disgusted. I went to the CD where I was born in Shanghai. There was twelve million people. It was a very hot Mayday. Seems to me that everybody was on the street. I went to the war house where you could see two [?], there are already three floors, about more than ten families live there. I was really disappointed. And the, I think all systems here will eventually prevail. FRANK BORING: Let's just, if you could look back at that period of time when you 17, 18, 19 years old, where does that fit in terms of your life? In terms of… YU WEI: Well you see, I was too… FRANK BORING: Where a major change happened, I guess what I'm looking at is that period of 17, 18, 19 you were changed, I mean you had a goal you had a, but something happened during that period. I guess what I'm looking for is your reflection on that period of your life and what it had done to make you the person you are today. YU WEI: Well you see, actually, I was a simple minded teenager, all I want is to join the war with the Japanese. I did not have any future point. Then after the war of course, I had some plan. But then we, the Communist came and then we were in Taiwan, then I had to go along with it. I was married then, I had kids, so I had to work harder than to just for the family, food, for the [?]. You see I joined the service when I was 18. And I retired completely about 2 years ago. After I had several, many assignments. But I left the Air Force much sooner than the rest of them. I was a Lt. Col. That year I was �supposed to promote to full Col., but I was in 1957. I was assigned to her office, on loan basis. FRANK BORING: Where does that young boy, that 17, 18, where does he fit in terms of your life? YU WEI: Well, of course, my war experience, my experience in the two academies really helped me to stand on my own two feet, you see. But to do whatever I think is right for the country and for myself. Of course, long planning, I mean which is what everybody is looking for, but I did not I was lacking long planning, but as time went on, I think I'm not satisfied. I was not cute, I was not a washout, I was , you see a lot of people, you know my friend, in my squad in 30 seconds, I can't. We lost about 16 pilot. Chinese pilots in my squad in the whole squad about 25. I lost my first American flight leader, Lt. Boyer?*. He was shot down the third mission. I was with him. So you know this sort of thing can give you a different way of facing life. First you survive, then you do whatever you could. To make a better living. You see then of course, I knew that my education background is not enough to show, so to ignore this, I read a lot of Asian, Chinese books. And then the other thing, I started to practice my brush [?]… FRANK BORING: What do you think the significance of the AVG in terms of the Chinese Americans working together? YU WEI: Both these relationships, I mean, both sides, American people, Chinese people, ought to be very powerfully, we fought together, we lived together and we pursue the same war together you see, and this is why unless of course, ? and myself, we're trying everything to send this old flying person out to join the Fortunes Air Force Association, AVG and the source of forces, the hump pilot, the P-40 pilot and then we sometime we'll invite them to Taiwan. For instance, General Sloshberstig [?], we invite him here about a few years back �and we hope in a reconcile. That only the third generation, the parties should bring it up, so I was disgusted with constant shot, we must do something about. So this time, I'm trying to take my son to Thunderbird, but he was very busy, he runs a computer shop in Washington. FRANK BORING: Very good. It was excellent. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Yu-Wei_1991-03-23_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yu Wei Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-23 Title A name given to the resource Yu Wei interview (video and transcript, 4 of 4), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of General Yu Wei of the Republic of China Air Force by filmmaker Frank boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. In this tape, Yu Wei looks back on the period of time he spent as a cadet and how it informed the rest of his life, in addition to the significance of the AVG in Chinese and American relations. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng