373 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b19a2d502444b70375f6e638b69c3047.mp4 4019e7ce698fa0d4b9b4938baac45457 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/704de7f0092c325a5002277706bdf101.pdf 0e38d9d69b4516e53c7f8ee5fdeb33bd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 10] ED RECTOR: We were sending out patrols to find out where the Japanese were in Burma and how far they had advanced and on one of these patrols of four planes, I happened to have detected them approaching the top rim of the Salween River Gorge, leading up to the defoliated position where the road winds back and forth down to the bottom of the gorge, the bridge is there, and again winds up the far side of the gorge to the plateau beyond. I caught the advance columns, the scouting columns of the Japanese on that high ground on the west side, the Burma side and we raked them real good and then we came back and reported that and subsequent to that, the old man launched successive attacks against the column and by this time the Japanese had moved in and had gone down to the very edge of the water, presumably, and that's where our boys who were so successful with bombing and strafing up and down the gorge, in terms of stopping the Japanese and holding them there until the Chinese got the last of their troops out of Burma - or rather into China and across the Salween and then blew the bridge. FRANK BORING: What were your missions like after that? ED RECTOR: Following the Salween operation, we operated east from Kunming. We were deployed to a number of bases including Chungking, at a base called …it was about 40 miles outside of Kunming. The �Chinese had prepared very excellent airfields for us at Liuchow, Kweilin and Hengyang and subsequently Ling Ling and that's in the Seong [?] Valley. So we operated there regularly and we did operations north of Hengyang, which was the easternmost of the bases that we utilized at the time and we would go forward and attack the shipping - I recall one instance where Harry Bolster, myself and two other fellows - we caught a small Japanese gunboat on the Yangtze River and we sank it, we strafed the hell out of it and it and we left it and it was later observed - oh the Chinese reported that - through to Chennault, and he was the one who told me that we had put it on the bottom. In addition to that, by this time remember it's June and more Army Air Corps troops are appearing in the theater. Recall that I told you that the 51st Fighter Group was virtually in China by this time intact. Also the 11th Bomb Squadron was activated and in that 11th Bomb Squadron you'd be interested to know, there were two - I'm sorry, three good little Tokyo bomber crews - B-25 crews and this was the 11th Bomb Squadron of course was equipped with B-25's and we were operating with them and escorting them on missions. They were from Hengyang, they were given the mission to bomb Hankow well that is the heart of the Japanese offensive and I thought it was a pretty good mission and I had six airplanes to escort their B-25's and if I might draw backward for you what happened, Hankow is here and the loop of the Yangtze River is like this - it comes out of the mountains, the Himalayas, comes up like this and here is Hankow. It loops around like this in a beautiful big bow and then comes on down here and turns east and goes out to the Pacific. Okay, we are down here, remember the bow that I explained, and Hengyang 300 miles away and we took off from there heading for an 800 mile round trip. We were escorting and we were heading to Hankow and look immediately and the leader and the navigator are about 50 miles off course, they're not heading for Hankow, they're going - remember the bow - they're going right up the center of it and Hankow is over here. We should have gone like this. So I drew up alongside and I rocked my wings and we're going up this way and I pointed hey it's over there - to you that way - and he nods his �head - he's a Major and on we plod. I go up and rock my wings again and I'm screaming like this with my fist, we're hand talking, or I am, I'm hand cursing and he wouldn't turn and I just shook my head like this. Okay we go straight up to the head of that curve, that bow, hit it right here and then they realized they were wrong and they turned west and I said oh here we go and around… (break) FRANK BORING: If you would start by saying they were headed straight for the bow and then realized their mistake. ED RECTOR: I got in the normal - with my flight of four - I got in the normal position for escort, forward or abeam and 500 to 1000 feet ahead because I thought the Japs might intercept us, but hoping for a degree of surprise. We headed north and we got so far in that I said something is wrong because they're not heading toward Hankow, they're heading right to the top of the bow, that broad, big expanse of the Yangtze that goes like that, we were going up the center of it and I go alongside and rock my wings and point over to Hankow and the guy looks and he's a Major, by the way. The leader of the formation, the Major of the five planes continued straight ahead until he hit the Yangtze then realized his mistake and he turned left and followed the Yangtze around until the bend that headed where the river was flowing north - and there after he turned south he saw Hankow - to him - and then I said Oh my God! as I saw their bomb bays opening and they went by at 7000 feet or 8000 feet and they demolished that fishing village that they had mistaken for Hankow and I am screaming to myself but I'm keeping control because I know where Hankow is and with this mucking around, they probably know that we're approaching. Well they stuck the nose down and we went out of there at 300 miles an hour and down we went. Remember the sun is setting in the west behind Hankow and we went by there at near 300 miles an hour and I'm tucked in close with my two fighters, my two elements to be close enough to be of any help. If you want to know one of the �disappointments of war - we went by Hankow, we were within 3 miles of the airfield, we went right by the docks they were supposed to be bombing, looked over at the airfield and there are over 100 - close to 200 aircraft, wing tip to wing tip, the sun glistening off their wings and on we went back to Hengyang. What a mucked up mission and I was wary thereafter of bombardiers trying to lead formations. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned earlier that there was… as these people started to come in. ED RECTOR: We started getting replacement pilots when we knew that the AVG was being disbanded. They started trickling in and while we were still AVG they started flying with us. We started putting them right on missions and orienting them and getting them prepared for the successor organization that would supplant them, the 23rd Fighter Group. So they were under AVG control, just like they were a member of the AVG, but they were Army Air Corps. That proceeded smoothly. It was just a continuing thing and it proceeded without any difficulty at all. I know that when Tex came out to - he'd been on a ferry trip to India, when he came out to Hengyang where I'd been holding fort with the Second Squadron, he said "the old man asked me to talk to you - he told me, would you go out and talk to Eddie. He said if everybody goes home, I'm gonna have all these new pilots in here who don't know the terrain and we'll have to just pull back to Kunming and stand down and learn all over again. He said some of you've got to stay." And he said "Would you go out and talk to Eddie, see if he'll stay?" Tex comes out from his trip down to Calcutta and to India and repeated this to me. And I said "Tex, I want to go home" and he said "So do I, but the old man asked me to ask you" and I said "of course you're staying?" and he said "Yeah" and I said "Okay". So that was when I made the decision to stay on and become part of the Army Air Corps. Subsequent to that, there's another interesting story. The day that the AVG was moving out - remember we stayed on two extra weeks at the General's behest - and I was taking - had already �been made Command of the 76th Fighter Squadron, Tex the 75th, and Frank Schiel's the 74th. I had the 76th at Kweilin and Frank Scheil with the 74th back at Kunming and Tex had the 75th up at Hengyang. Recall that this is the first time in any war, before or since that I know of, where a fighter group has been activated on a fighting front. We got our orders and commands and the AVG went home the next day and we went fighting and continued fighting. Now remember, I'm Navy. So that night the Seaport Six came in with all the new pilots and the ground crew - it was a 21 passenger C-47 and they all reported to me and I said "well doesn't Tex get anybody?" he was up there all alone. And they said "No, we were all told to report here." So I said "Armorers line up here, mechanics line up there, radio operators there." I split them down the middle and I put half of them on the plane and I said "you are now assigned to the 75th Fighter Squadron" for which Tex is forever grateful. I sent them to Hengyang and otherwise he'd have been flat on the ground because he'd had pilots, but that was all. So I kept the others. Then there's a marvelous man who lives here and a very dear friend of Tex's and mine and all of the AVG, who was there early, Johnny Allison. He was there for the transition. FRANK BORING: Okay we'll talk about him after - we have talked to him ourselves. ED RECTOR: That night, remember I'm in Hengyang, I cornered Johnny Allison by this time a Major with his own background in the Army Air Corps and I said "Johnny, I don't care about the Japs, I can handle the Japs, but here I am Navy and I don't know one thing about Army Air Corps organization or what is required of me and that's the only thing that worries me. Could you give me some sort of help or guidance?" He said "Eddie, you have nothing to worry about. You've got an Adjutant and a First Sergeant that are back at Kunming where the administrative headquarters are, you've got your personnel here. Don't you worry about those Army Air Corps regulations, you just continue what you've been doing and everything will be all right." The next morning the C-47 comes back and lands from Hengyang, they overnighted up there again �with the Hengyang crew. My boys got aboard and I can recall them now "Bye sucker". Incidentally, I took these new sports - I kept them up until midnight, telling them what to expect tomorrow. Because if they'd be up in their first fight - and I spent two hours telling them what to expect and I got the goodbye sucker bit from my AVG buddies who were going home. And before 11 o'clock the next morning, we were up in our first fight and everything went swimmingly and my fears were for naught, because I did have good people. FRANK BORING: A final couple of questions… but let's begin back down when you first started hearing about the stories being told and that you were being known and then Time Magazine coming out. ED RECTOR: Early on, with our early successes, we began to get stories from the press and also by radio that word of the successes that we had and were having was public knowledge, not only back in the States, but it certainly was in China. The backwoods of China were sort of supposedly primitive, but rest assured, the word got around. They had radios, they had newspapers and the word traveled pretty well. Then we began to get reports that our successes were noted, not only in the States, but worldwide. So by the time we left Rangoon and Life Magazine was there with the photographer and a reporter, and subsequent to that our - I was going to say notoriety - but our feats became well known. That was through the time that we before we were disbanded by Presidential decree in July 1942. To bring that forward in terms of - again the notoriety that we got, this is 50 years. This is our 50th anniversary coming up, which we are celebrating in a gala fashion in San Diego on the 4th of July and I've been asked about this because there has been increasing interest in the American Volunteer Group, the Flying Tigers, literally for the last five years. There wasn't a lot of interest after that except for special groups. But now there's an increased interest by almost everybody. I get calls every week to make speeches or to autograph a picture or to submit copy or something like that, as do the rest of the surviving members of the Flying Tigers. There is �one unique thing that I say in my talks, particularly in the last 2-1/2 months. I said remember that we were recruited in the first place to help a friend resist an aggressor, the Japanese. And I said the only difference between that and Desert Storm is in terms of, first of all the quality and above all the quantity. But again, Desert Storm represents the U.S. going to the defense of a weaker neighbor of the aggressor. I said that was true in China, the reason for the AVG. FRANK BORING: In terms of your own life, you've accomplished a number of things after… ED RECTOR: Looking back on that year of the AVG, I would say without question, it was the most significant year of my life. It afforded the opportunity to, first of all, prove to myself that I could do the things that I had dreamt of doing. Secondly, it gave me - after that being - going through that proving process, I was competent beyond compare, I had lived to become and fly - a military pilot and to fly military aircraft, I was automatically tendered a regular commission at the end of the war and spent 20 years in the Air Force with the year in the Navy. So it was a very - it could not have been a more fortuitous time because never before nor since, was there the opportunity to do what we did in that fleeting literally - moment in time, to operate in the free-flown fashion that we did for a marvelous, magical year, and to have accomplished what we did. So it was - having gone through that - I'll call it a crucible - there wasn't anything I couldn't do after that. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 10 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector discusses making the decision to stay on with the Army Air Corps as the AVG disbanded and how the year of the AVG was the most significant year of his life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0c1edabc15b7fe112dfcebee37e28b90.mp4 902fd067dacd9517c01df93fd053599c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4223be2f89067f9c88df5e743ef650b9.pdf 11408067021f7ceaf0d229405c3136e2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 9] ED RECTOR: Our operations, during the rest of our stay, the Second Squadron, before we were relieved by the First, was - call them routine although they were anything but that. They consisted of being up on alert and interspersed with that, mostly in the mornings were raids over Thailand, Mae Sot particularly, that was a little grass field just over the Burma border into Thailand. We raided it plus a couple of other airfields. Tack, that later became Toplee [?] in the Vietnam War. I recall one mission that was unique because we flat out caught them by surprise. They were playing volley ball when we swoop in and start raking their airplanes on the ground. Other times we were caught - our guys - when my colleague, Charlie Mott, was shot down and became a POW. They were ready with ground fire and also with an airborne alert. So we were lucky at times and other times we met opposition and that was interspersed with alerts when the Japs would come over. I recall one instance when the Japs came over with a formation of seven bombers in a beautiful Vee, and again, my airplane is on the ground and it's being repaired, the plugs were being changed. Our Line Chief was a guy by the name of Fox, what a gem amongst a coterie of gems and I recall saying to Fox - Harry Fox - I said "hurry up Harry, hurry, hurry" and he's cranking trying to get the plugs in and the cowling back on and I'm standing down there and I look up there and finally these bombers - I can see them, right in beautiful �formation and the guys are having at them and only four of the bombers got over the field. (break) ED RECTOR: I look up at 45 degrees and here's this formation and they started out as seven, four of them got over the airfield but at 45 degrees, there were five of them in formation, Harry Fox is trying to change the plugs on my P-40 and I'm saying "Hurry, hurry, Harry" and finally when they got to 45 degrees, I knew that we couldn't make it and I said "I'm heading the slit trench" and Harry looked up from his stand and he looked up at the bombers and he took one more turn and I'm cowering in the slit trench and he's up there on this platform, and he looks up at the bombers and they're at 60 degrees now approaching 70, and he takes his tool and he looks up at them and he throws this wrench at them "You sons of bitches" and he gets off the stand and comes and jumps in the slit trench - he doesn't jump in the slit trench with me, but he just hunkers down, still cursing, and they dropped their bombs and our boys had dropped another one of them and the three of them turned away and they never got 10 miles away until the Brit's and our boys finished off the total of the seven. FRANK BORING: Right after this… (break) ED RECTOR: Eventually the Second Squadron was a bit beaten up and Chennault said… (break) ED RECTOR: (break) Chennault determined that we needed a rest. �ED RECTOR: The Second Squadron had been in Rangoon for nigh onto two months and Chennault decided that we were a bit beaten up and that our planes needed detailed maintenance and that the pilots and the ground crew were due a respite. So he sent the First Squadron down to relieve us and from there the Second Squadron proceeded back to Kunming. The First Squadron stayed for another two or three months and they retreated after the Japs had moved on to Rangoon and they moved up to a place - the oil fields in Burma about 40 miles northwest of Rangoon and then from there eventually on back into China also. FRANK BORING: What was your activity like with the Second Squadron at this time? ED RECTOR: The Second Squadron, after moving back to Kunming, we resumed raids over French Indo-China. We took the offensive, and soon after that we were disbursed further east in several locations. And as the First Squadron was brought back also, we were sent back initially to Loiwing and to Lashio on special missions. One of those missions happened to have been to go to Hayho [?], where we overnighted and that's where we lost Newkirk, when we raided Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai. We did that from the southwest corner of Hunan Province at Loiwing. Then after that series of operations and we were pushed out of Loiwing and the Japanese approached all the way to the river, we pulled all the way back to Kunming and then started our operations eastward to other bases and throughout eastern China - not throughout but up all the way to Hankow and south toward Canton. FRANK BORING: Is this the same period of time that Black Mack McGarry was shot down or is this much later? ED RECTOR: It was during this period. FRANK BORING: Okay, if you could give us some idea - were you there at that time? �ED RECTOR: Yeah. When we pulled this raid, we had maneuvered 1500 - 1200 miles in order to pull off this raid in Chiang Mai and Chiang Drai and we arrived at Hayho [?] with 12 or 14 aircraft, but the [?] pilots that were to replace us also came in. FRANK BORING: Did you have any comments or reactions about… ED RECTOR: I've got a good story to tell you about that change-over. FRANK BORING: Good. ED RECTOR: By the time the AVG was fully withdrawn from Burma and we were back in China, Chennault - he didn't concoct - because as a thinking tactician he had this plan. He knew that in northern Thailand at Chiang Mai and Chiang Drai, it was within our range, there were hundreds of Japanese aircraft, up to 200 aircraft. He concocted or planned this assault on those two bases by having us fly from Kunming - and remember this is a free-staging area to do what he wanted to do, to catch them off guard. We flew from Kunming back to Loiwing and refueled from there and then we went into one of those auxiliary fields that I mentioned earlier, it’s called Hayho and it's in eastern Burma. Right up - not next to, but fairly close to the Thai border. We flew in there at dusk and then we spent the next three hour - four hours really - shammying. Now shammying is to take a shammy and - there had been pre-placed fuel up there - but you doesn’t take fuel directly from the barrel we always did - even in China - we shammied all fuel that went into a plane. So we sat there and shammied fuel out of 5 gallon cans - these were 5 gallon can and so we were fully loaded and then we went to bed about 11 o'clock at night, tired as hell and we either 14 or 16 airplanes - I think it was 14. We were divided and briefed. Some of us would go to Chiang Mai and some would go to Chiang Drai - which is about 50 miles north of Chiang Mai. We overnighted, got up real early and went out and took off literally it wasn't even quite dawn. We had headlights down at the far end of the runway to get airborne. We got airborne and headed out part of �the way and the people led by Newkirk that went to Chiang Drai, headed up in their direction and Bob Neale, who was leading the element or the 8 planes that I was with, headed for Chiang Mai. It was hazy, visibility was just terrible and with the sun coming up and with all that haze, it wasn't possible to identify anything. We couldn't find a landmark at all and we proceeded time and distance, old Navy tradition and I see some mountains sticking up from here and there and we go straight ahead, and Bob Neale, is weaving back and forth, trying to wonder where the hell we are and we looked - and we were all searching - I think Bob was just about to turn around and go back, and with that, Charlie Bond flew by him, rocked his wings and in effect said "follow me". And here is an ice-cream coned hill sticking up like this, beautifully round and pointed, Charlie had been there on a reconnaissance and he recognized that. We went screaming down around that damned hill and headed right for the airdrome. The Japs never knew what hit them. They were warming up their airplanes and it's barely light and one of our guys took the head off of a crew chief that just stood up and looked around like this and the guy came back with the leading edge of his P-40 bloodied, he just took the guy's head off. They went up and down that line several times, those who were on the mission, and it turned out that I was assigned top cover with Black Mack McGarry with the proviso that we could - if the Japs did not have a dawn patrol and nothing happened, then we could go in and make a pass. So nothing happened and I turned and went in - I started in and I even started firing my guns and I saw a damn plane and I thought Rector you moved too fast, and I pulled up. And it wasn't a Jap, but was one of our guys and I mucked up on that one. But Mack went right on in and he was hit. The timing on this mission was very precise and exact and we had to get the hell out of there, but that was a hell of a damn take that day in terms of planes destroyed. I can't quote you the figure, but it's in the records. But we started gathering up again and Black Mack McGarry pulled up to join me and I noticed that as he pulls in to formation that there's white smoke coming from his plane and he never did get quite in formation and started circling and I rocked �my wings and I broke radio silence and said "hold it fellows" to Bob Neale. (break) ED RECTOR: Black Mack pulled up to join me and I kept waiting for him having throttled back and I looked and when he almost got in formation I saw that he was streaming white smoke. That was a bad indication because that meant that his coolant had been hit and caused that white smoke - that was always evident. We weren't in radio contact, but I started circling and I couldn't talk to him but I did call blindly to Bob Neale that we had - that Mack was hit and I started circling and then I stayed close to him and he headed for a high ridge and I could see that he wasn't going to make it, he couldn't get over it and I sort of flew top cover on him and observed him and the other guys were circling overhead. Finally he turns to parallel this ridge, this low ridge of hills and it was apparent that he would have to bail out and so he rolled the P-40 upside down, dropped out and the chute opened and he floated down and went into the trees and I continued to circle and Neale. (break) ED RECTOR: Mack's chute opened and he floated into the jungle. Bob Neale continued to circle with a couple of the other guys. I reached into my pocket on the flying suit, the bottom of the leg and I took out the map, my map of the area and I circled it with my pencil and said you are there and I could see the top of his chute in the trees, and I put the flaps down and came in with a carrier landing as well as I could and got ahead of him because I knew when I dropped the map that it would flutter, and I saw it fall and it was fairly close to his proximity, or in proximity to him and then I reached in, and of course we always carried some sort of ration with us and we did have chocolate bars that were that big and I had one in case I went down and needed a little sustenance. So I took that out and I was �quite accurate with this and Black Mack confirmed that he got that chocolate bar and I dropped it, then we went on our way. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v09 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 9 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector describes the operations of the Second Squadron in Rangoon and being relieved by the First Squadron in order to return to Rangoon for repairs and respite. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7c0149980bb7e58916ceca1fc3fa91ef.mp4 970372b45528d975b1c44625b2449038 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b2eb8a24733b2141daea353eabe30290.pdf 7f300b16c7341d0ba2f19200e596b9ae PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] ED RECTOR: After our fight on December 20th, on December 25th and December 27th, the Third Squadron had their marvelous two days over Rangoon and after that effort they were a bit spent. So the Second Squadron, my squadron was chosen to relieve them in Rangoon. So we left for Rangoon and I flew down on the Transport to Lashio because I was proceeding on the ground and were off loaded at Lashio. The other guys flew the planes down. They stopped at Lashio to refuel and proceed on to Rangoon. Lashio, which is the rail head of the Burma Railroad. I rode the train from there all the way to Rangoon and arrived about 10 o'clock in the morning and I must say that I had visions of being strafed - at least I was thinking ahead - and I thought my God!, I don't want to come this far and get killed by being strafed on a train and I was looking left and right and ready to leap or do whatever I might be able to do if the Japanese caught the train approaching Rangoon. So I was very alert. But I arrived and we were billeted - I joined the rest of the squadron - and we were billeted on the airdrome, or adjacent to the airdrome in RAF barracks, officer's quarters. The Japanese were making desultory, single and double and triple bombing raids at night to disturb us, all hours of the night and we couldn't get any sleep. So our Skipper, Jack Newkirk, went into town and he found out that we could get billeted in town. And all of us, except one or two of the �pilots, were billeted around town with the colonial British. Seven of us were billeted in the Burma Oil Company compound. Now these are beautiful colonial homes, beautifully appointed and staffed and we deployed our aircraft at night, by the way, 20 to 30 miles out of town - 15 miles - into what is dry pans. And they were named by British-Scotch names - Johnny Walker, Johnny Red Label and Black Label. So we had 3 of these places and we disbursed them, just left the airplanes out and the next morning we went out by British lorry - and the lorries picked us up incidentally in the evening to bring us into town. So picture if you will, the first day that - or the third day that we've disbursed the aircraft, the lorry, instead of taking us back to our billets adjacent to the airfield, took us into this marvelous, big, spacious compound, it was 9 o'clock at night, and Bert Christman and I were roommates, they'd billeted us together. Remember we were squadron mates in the Navy, Tex and Crix and myself on old Scouting 41. So we get out with our kit and we're in our flying suits and we go up to the blackout curtain and knock and just as we stepped up to the threshold of the door and were going to knock, the blackout curtain is pulled aside like this, and a servant said "come right in." We stepped inside and looked around at this beautiful, beautiful home and then he turned and picked up a tray and he said "would you gentlemen prefer or would you like a little refreshment?" And there were two double scotches and soda on the tray. We said "Yes!" So we had a marvelous drink there and were seated in the hallway - we weren't seated, we were still standing there, sipping or drink. Then we heard this feminine voice coming down a curved stairway and we looked up and here is this beautiful vision of a woman in a long gown, coming down the stairs and saying "Gentlemen, welcome, thank you" and she came on down. What a beautiful lovely lady. I'll tell you more about her later. She came down and her name was Joan Rigg, and we were in the home of Basil Rigg, who was an executive with the Burma Oil Company. This lovely creature came down and she was apologizing, shaking hands, saying welcome and saying "thank you for what you did on December 25th and 27th and thank you so very much. But I must �make one apology, Gentlemen, after the bombings on the 25th and 27th, the servants were scared and they ran like the devil, they fled, and we're making do with just five." So Basil, who was doing his fire marshall duty, he came in with his hat on and we said hello, and we sat down in the living room - and we went up and showered and got into informal dress and came back down, had another drink and then we had dinner about 10 o'clock. The Brit's, you know, in colonial fashion, they never dine before 9 or 10 and this evening it was at least 10. We stayed there and what a joy it was to be in that beautiful home. Every morning we were picked up at 4 o'clock by a British lorry and out to retrieve our aircraft and then back again. That went on until we lost Crix and that was in combat over Mingaladon. FRANK BORING: If you would - I realize this may be painful, but if we could go into that day that that happened and your reaction and the impact it had on the squadron? ED RECTOR: Crix and I being roommates traveled together, of course, and being in the same squadron, he was senior to me by a couple of years and he was the Flight Leader on 1 o'clock one afternoon when we're standing alert under the Japanese force approaching from the northwest. Recall that the Brit's had radar; it was rudimentary, but nevertheless, effective. They could tell you many unfriendliness, many unknowns approaching from the northeast. They couldn't give you chapter and verse in vectoring, but they could tell you that unknown planes were on their screen. On the day that we lost Crix, I was flying his wing and we took off and his radio communications was a little Victorian thing that you wind like this and it was far less than adequate. Well he pointed that he could not hear and he said "you take the lead" because I'm talking to the controller. So he slid over on my wing and I took the lead and we climbed at max power and max rate to the northeast. (break) �ED RECTOR: I was flying Bert's wing when we were launched to meet this oncoming unknowns from the northeast. We took off in formation and Bert, after we lifted off pointed to his headset to indicate that he was not receiving instruction from the controller who was at the radar site and he pointed to me to take over. With that he slid over and got on my wing and continued to climb at max power and max rate of climb to the northeast. We continued to climb until we got up to 14,000 feet or thereabouts, still all out and I looked up ahead and here is a formation of massive aircraft. I didn't know how many until I got right to them and I got up just about level??? And I sighted them, then I continued climbing as they approached directly from a distance. We had about 5 to 700 feet of altitude on them when we got up to them. Remember we were approaching like this - and the formation consisted of 27 fixed wing dive bombers, in a beautiful parade formation and aft of them about 2 miles was their fighter escort. Crix and I were all alone; we were the first to contact. Well I got on the horn and announced that I had found them for the others, who were patrolling in other areas, and then I headed for the bombers and Crix was on my wing and I thought well we can get in one good pass before those fighters get up close and we have to tangle with them. So I made a pass over that formation and I didn't fire at one plane, I just hosed the whole formation because they were in close and pulled up immediately to height and turned to come back and I was into the escort fighters by this time, and the formation is continuing and I never determined whether we had knocked one down or not. It was again a maelstrom of activity. I had to dive out and then climb back again and the fight was going on and you'd see the fighters and they were all over. By this time our other - our boys had caught up, so it is one big whirl of activity. The bombers never did get to the they didn't drop their bombs on the airfield and they disappeared and went home and we were all busy with the fighters. We returned and landed and were debriefed and Crix had not landed and I of course, because we were roommates and he was a very dear friend, I pieced this all together to find out just what had happened. He had been hit and had bailed out and the people on �the ground, the Burmese - this is 20 miles from the airfield to the northeast - they confirmed that his chute had opened and he was descending and that he had been strafed in his chute while descending and… (break) ED RECTOR: As we headed in to the bomber formation, I could see the fighter escort in the back and there had to have been some 18 to 28 fighters as their escort. (break) ED RECTOR: We made our first pass from about 5 to 700 feet above the dive bomber formation, tight parade formation and remember they had rear gunners shooting at us and I raked the whole formation, didn't aim at one plane, pulled around in a very tight turn and I could see Crix's fire going by me to the right as he made a pass. Then I turned immediately because I knew we would be engaged by the fighters and I turned and headed straight for them and shooting at the first fighter I saw, heading for me, and after that we became separated. I didn't see Crix again. I don't know what caused the operation or whether he was with me or whether one of the rear gunners might have nicked him, or what happened. We continued and we were joined by some 8 or 10 of our P-40's by this time, as I had called attention to as to where the fight was taking place, and it was a whirling mass of activity there and I had to dive out at least twice. The bombers did not drop their bombs on the airfield. They had turned while we were engaged with the fighters and got back to Thailand from whence they came. We had a good dog fight and forget what our claims were on that day, but we landed all but Crix. Later that afternoon, we wondered what had happened. The word came in and his body, which the natives had brought in, and they related this story, that Crix was coming down by parachute and that the Japanese fighters attacked him and just laced him up and down, his body was full of bullet holes, one through the base �of his skull. So that was how he was delivered and that was the explanation of how he died. This was not traumatic - but he was one of my best friends and my roommate and I lost him and I dearly loved that guy, because he was such a fine gentleman. Everyone in the AVG loved this guy. To give you a little background on him, he was an artist. He drew strips - you're too young to remember - but there was an adventure strip called "Scorchy Smith". He drew this for two years for whatever the syndicate was that produced it and then he decided that he would get enough experience in aviation to eventually arrive at the day where he could draw his own strip and that's why he applied for and took flight training and had been in the squadron in the Navy bombing for what later became Scouting 41, when I arrived. He had been there 2 years. He was an old Ensign. So that's how our friendship started. So here he is and he had already started drawing his strip, by the way, to get the background, because back in Norfolk we would go out and raise hell on weekends or at night, and Crix would be there at his drawing board like artists have at a slant, putting down ideas. He was an excellent artist. He helped very much in terms of drawing our insignia, not only for our squadron but for the First Squadron and the Third Squadron. Disbursed the airplane that night and I went back to my billet and the Rigg's were as crushed as I was because they'd already grown so fond of us, the two of us, but Crix in particular and Joan tried that night to be as helpful as she could and I was somber, I'm sure it was apparent. But she was just as grief stricken as I was. So two days later, there was a funeral in the local Christian cemetery. By this time Crix and I had met a couple of lovely ladies and we'd dated them and they were there for the funeral, plus parts of their family and others, so Tex, myself and well most of the whole squadron - I think we left only 2 or 4 guys to stand alert - and the service was about 4 in the afternoon, and it was a beautifully done service. Incidentally, I went back to Burma six or eight years ago seven years ago to be exact - and I went by to try to find that graveyard and I found it, but it had grown up. There were trees that were 50 and 70 feet tall. It had not been kept up and there was no �way I could find his grave, look though I did. I went to the authorities and they had no record at all and that was a disappointment. I had visions when I went back there to see a beautifully marked grave and I had a camera, I was going to take pictures and bring them back to our organization and just as a keepsake and a memento for me. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 8 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector describes the day the AVG lost Bert Christman (also known as "Crix") and his memory of the funeral, in addition to his return trip to Burma in search of his grave. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b9215d453827e6dd58317877d2f6e153.mp4 9c0650c7a0fbe2e04f7dd048d9983207 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc76e574366acf5366cc3fb7d0434ad1.pdf 062fa46087efa5e5a9781eb29de95fc2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] ED RECTOR: When I caught up with the formation and the melee of my compatriots who had them under attack, I pulled up to the typical, what is called high perch position for a fighter curve of pursuit attack, and that's about 500 feet above the formation. I made such a curve of pursuit, 40 degrees angle off, I started shooting and as I closed in I… (break) ED RECTOR: I'm in the high perch position - that is the normal position for a curve of pursuit fighter aircraft attack and from there, I started… (break) ED RECTOR: When the cowling was back on my airplane and it was ready, I warmed it up quickly and took off and I had the report by radio that the formation was east of the field and of course the town, I barreled out in that direction, going through cumulus clouds that towered above us and on either side, and there were great big valleys of open space, and I eventually caught up with the formation of ten Japanese bombers, and my colleagues who were making attacks on them and I looked in wonderment as to why they hadn't run into each other because this was the first combat we had ever been in and they were swarming underneath and all around and hanging on their props and I didn't want any part of �that melee, so I pulled up to the high perch position that a fighter pilot takes when he flies a curve of pursuit, and when I was in position, abeam of the formation, I turned and came in like this and started flying 40 degrees angle off and eventually ended up behind the last bomber on the left, on the port side, firing all the time and I closed in rapidly and something happened to me at that point that I remembered thereafter forever. I'd been briefed and I knew about target fixation or fascination, that is when a pilot becomes fascinated and flies into the target that he is attacking. That almost happened to me. At the last split second, I shoved the stick forward, went underneath the plane, I don't know how close I came, but in my mind's eye today I can see the absolute finite detail of the riveting, the camouflage paint, the insignia and the dust pin gunner who had been firing at me as I came up the slot. As I ducked underneath, he was slumped over his gun and I shot his lower jaw away. I see that very clearly. I'll never forget it. I pulled out to the left then and climbed back up to the high perch position and made another pass. This time I came in and there was one 30 caliber firing and I thought well, I'll go out and make a head-on pass. So I charged the guns again, remember they were all manually charged, and I barreled ahead and came back head-on at the leader of the formation. I depressed the trigger and one little 30 went pop, pop, pop and then I went right over the top and I had him dead to rights - if my 50's had only been firing. Then I pulled out and barreled ahead again, recharged the guns, made another head-on pass and the little 30 caliber in the wing, the left wing, had stopped firing, so I thought, well to hell with it, I might as well go back to Kunming. The formation had flown up from French IndoChina. They followed the railroad up and it ended 50 miles - it turned 50 miles east of Kunming and then came in due west. Well I presumed, when I decided to go back to Kunming, that they would turn and head immediately for Haiphong, where they were based across the China border in northern Indo-China, so I flew alongside to get their heading and then I turned and flew a reciprocal of that expecting to see that big, beautiful Kunming Lake and no difficulty at all in finding my way home. Well, �remember that they were 60 miles east and then they had turned south to Haiphong. The reciprocal I flew, put me 70 to 100 miles east of Kunming and that's how I "got lost", I just ran out of fuel. That was also another - that was really a scary time because in trying to find these glossy, slick supposed maps, I was looking for an auxiliary field that was shown on these supposedly maps which pointed these out. Well I felt that I knew where I was and I went down this valley (break) ED RECTOR: I was in this curve of pursuit, which is a typical fighter attack, where you are a beam of the airplane that you're shooting at. I started curve of pursuit, started shooting at 45 degrees angle off and continued to fire until I was within 100 yards of the bomber and going right up his tail. That was a five to seven second burst of fire or longer and I got target fixation. I'd been told about target fixation and this is when a pilot becomes fascinated with the target and literally flies into it. I almost did that. At the last moment, as I came up astern, right up his tail with the rear dust pin gunner firing at me, at the last split second I shoved the stick forward, went underneath the bomber - I don't know how close I came - but in my mind's eye today I can see the rivets, the camouflage, and the detail including the rear gunner with his lower jaw completely shot away and sagging drooped over his gun. I pulled out to the left having missed the plane and pulled back up to the high perch position, made another run just like the first and only one little 30 caliber was firing in my left wing and then I pulled back up again to the high perch position and again I looked back at that maelstrom of my colleagues that were firing and falling back, and I said I don't want any more of that, so I said I'll go out forward and make a head-on attack. So I fire balled it, moved out in front of the bomber and turned around and I recharged all of the guns, the 50's that are synchronized firing through the prop - the four 50's, two on either wing and had the leader dead in my sights and I started shooting quite a distance away and the one little 30 caliber continued to go pop, pop, pop and I pulled up off the top, turned around, fire balled �it and moved out ahead again, recharged all the guns and came back for another head-on pass and even the little 30 caliber had stopped firing and I said well I might as well go home. I flew alongside the bomber formation, took their heading, turned to fly the reciprocal of that heading, which would take me back to Kunming and I couldn't miss the big expanse of Kunming Lake and in taking this reciprocal heading, I had not taken into account that the bombers - I would have thought and I would have headed straight for home - but instead they had followed the railroad up from Haiphong, 50 miles east of Kunming and then followed the railroad straight into Kunming, that's the way they were turned. So picture if you will, me taking a reciprocal of these bombers that were 60 miles east of Kunming when they made their turn, and in the fighting I didn't know that they had turned - you're not aware of that - and so instead of coming back to Kunming, I was 70 miles off course and that's why I eventually was lost and was running out of fuel and why I ended up 1/3 of the way to Chongqing at a little village called Suning. Well in reaching this place, being a Navy pilot I know how to search because when you're at sea, you're more appreciative of navigation - you don't do pilotage at sea, you do dead reckoning and the whole bit, and you know how to do a square search and I broke out my little chart, which was a glossy, slick map - a picture that had the location of alternate airfields around Kunming and I thought that I had determined where I was and I said well if I follow this road I will get to this alternate airfield. I followed that road and I was in sunlight, but the road led into a shallow valley and that valley suddenly ended up in a river bed with sheer cliffs going up on either side and I'm underneath a 400 foot overcast by this time and I'm pulling 40 and 60 degree turns to stay in the river canyon, and the canyon narrows more and one time I made a 90 degree turn and I said well listen it's just a matter of time until I crash into one of these canyon walls on either side. Ahead of me I saw a straight of about two miles, and with that I pushed full power on, pulled that P-40 back and at 130 miles an hour started climbing into the overcast. It was a terrible, terrible period. I fully expected any instant to go crashing into a mountain. �I climbed and climbed what seemed to be an eternity. Then it started getting light above me and only then did I dare hope that I would live and suddenly I broke out into beautiful, bright sunlight. I let out a shout of glee, did a 180 and headed straight back to the cleared area that I had flown over and by this time my red light, fuel warning light is on. I go back to a village that I recognized and I drug this field and saw that there was an open area under cultivation that I could land on. I put the flaps down, left the wheels up, came around for a landing, and just before I touched down - being an old carrier pilot I triggered in on the prop - then I chopped the throttle and at the same time reached and turned the switch of to prevent a fire, and I skidded to a halt and made sure that everything was off. Then I looked up the hill toward the village and here is an army of people. It looked like a waterfall coming down the hill, two little positions, that they just flowed toward me. I reached in and grabbed my 45 and I got on the other side of the crowd approaching and I crouched down below the cockpit and I had my pistol ready - and then I thought, Rector this is stupid. What are you going to do? And I didn't know where I was. I didn't know whether I was in China or Jap territory or what. So I put the pistol back in my pocket, slid over the fuselage facing them and I just stood up like this when they arrived, waiting to see what would happen. And of course they were friendly and I found a lad who spoke English - or he found me and in halting English we conversed and I told him who I was and they took me in town for a very fine luncheon and I had to tell them some stories on what had happened. They had heard the planes overhead and had for many years. Most times they were Japanese planes. Chennault had told us that any time you go down, be sure you retrieve the guns and any ammo, and that particularly. So I got a garage mechanic - I got two of them from in town through the interpreter and we dismantled the six guns and the ammo and I took some of the communications equipment and we put all that in the bed of a truck and I overnighted there. The next day we drove most of the day and we arrived at one of the four quadrant headquarters of the ground observer net, that I told you about. There, was one of my �colleagues, the radio operator and I overnighted with him and got a message in to the old man that - the Colonel - that I was okay. Then the next day I proceeded on to Kunming. The General said Chennault called me over to his headquarters and said "Well what happened?" I repeated the story that I've just told you and he said "Well Eddie, I'm glad you're alive and that you're back, but you should have stayed in there when your guns stopped firing." I said "What for sir?" He says "to draw fire so the rest of the boys could get their shots in." I left there shaking my head and said "What a man!" FRANK BORING: What was the reaction… particularly if Tex was involved here, if he's part of the story at all? (break) ED RECTOR: I reported to my squadron, the Second Squadron to Jack Newkirk, the Squadron Commander and he had me tell the story and I did and Newkirk said "Well I think he's right, I know he shot that first airplane down." So that's it. He said "By the way, the boss wants to see you." And that's when I went over to see Chennault. But obviously my squadron mates were glad to see me back and they already knew that I was safe and they said "how was it? What was it like?" and so I had to tell them the story again. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 7 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector describes in detail his first combat with the Japanese pilots and what it was like being in the curve of pursuit. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a7e92c5434e7aa5642b81464c770b5bb.mp4 0c3dd3a673649431df6928c99a549ffe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4d0bfd110348dd687f6adc20357668d6.pdf 42e88302a42c7a411f5f8914e15f05d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FRANK BORING Let's begin first though with [?] and then start into Kunming. ED RECTOR: With Pearl Harbor, my personal feelings were that this is it, this adds a dimension four plateaus above what we had come out here to do, it was my country at war, this is totality and this puts a new aspect on it that heightened my appreciation of what I would be doing and what would be required of me as against the contract that I had signed and was expected originally and was the cause of me being out in the Far East. My attitude changed in this regard that it was more dedicated, I was more disciplined - not disciplined but oriented in terms of total effectiveness and that was the impact it had on me and remained that way. So it was literally about a four plateaus leap in terms of concentration, in terms of doing what would be required. I personally reviewed in my mind, because after Pearl Harbor I reflected to myself the readiness of the Atlantic Fleet that I had just left and then what had happened at Clark Field in the Philippines and was continuing to happen around the world, the disasters that were happening in the desert of North Africa. I thought about all of those things but I had no doubt in my mind that it would be turned around. Never a qualm in terms of whether we would win in the end. Those are the thoughts that went through my mind and knew that what we would have to do that we were in a prime position to be effective at the outset. We were in �the theater, we were facing the Japs right now. Here was an opportunity, a golden opportunity to make an impact. Those were the thoughts that I mulled over and I had no qualms or any concern about the danger of it because I was ready for it to get started, knowing that I was good. FRANK BORING: Describe if you will your landing. ED RECTOR: Prior to December 7th, the Japanese had moved into Bangkok and Chennault and the RAF wanted to have pictures of what that contingent consisted of. They had moved from French Indo-China into Thailand and to Bangkok, Donlong Airdrome particularly. So we took a P-40, Eric Schilling did, and took it down to Rangoon and the RAF photographer, the technician installed an RAF aerial camera in the belly, the bottom of the P-40 and they checked it out on the ground and it worked okay and he might have even tried an airborne flight to see that it worked and he learned how to do the mechanism. Bert Christman, a Squadron Leader of mine in the Navy and I were sent down then to join him as his escort to go over and photograph from as high as we could get Donlong Airdrome. We took off about 1 o'clock in the afternoon. The P-40 did not have the range to go to Bangkok and back so we stopped at the Craw? Peninsula, a RAF field called Tavoy. We arrived there with smoke and haze all around there airfield and the Japanese from Thailand and particularly from Bangkok, Donlong Airdrome, had just strafed the airfield before we landed. We quickly refueled and started climbing and Crix, Bert as we called him, we both got up high, I was a little higher than Crix and he was back here, and we were looking because we expected the sky to rain Zeros. We climbed past 24,000 feet, 26,000 feet and we're still climbing and we're 50 miles from Donlong to get to the maximum altitude that we could. Well at 50 miles out my engine starts sputtering and I had to get on the wobble pump. The wobble pump provides more air, pressure to the fuel system and we get to 27,000 feet, beautiful sunshiny day, couldn't have been better and I ride that wobble pump all the way in and I'm looking all over for Zeros and so is �Bert and we go in and I see Eric rolled that P-40 up like that and eyeballed the airfield and then he rolls it back and snaps a picture and then he rolls it up again and we're still looking for airplanes, riding the wobble pump. Then after he makes that run we turn and stick the nose down and head back for Rangoon, 400 miles an hour indicated. I got down to the level where I could get off the wobble pump and we proceeded back to Rangoon, landed. They took the film in and it was a magnificent photo run. There were over 130 airplanes wing tip to wing tip there. Beautifully portrayed and lined up wing tip to wing tip and there were other aircraft off to the side that were support aircraft like transports and so on. That was a marvelous bit of intelligence for the British and for Chennault and for the Chinese, to know that that kind of force had already landed in Thailand and was present at Bangkok. FRANK BORING: What was Chennault's reaction to this prize in front of him? (break) ED RECTOR: On arriving in Kunming from Toungoo with the early debouching because of the bombing that had started at Kunming, it was a beautiful day and the flight up was serene and we arrived about 5 in the afternoon and I recall flying over Kunming Lake, a beautiful body of water and we had been briefed on the airfield that some elements, some sections of it would be under construction but it wouldn't be any problem in terms of landing and that we'd be at 7400 feet, we'd be landing at altitude compared to 400 feet at Toungoo, to keep that in mind and we landed and our ground people were already up there and in place and we knew where each squadron would be, where our radio rooms would be and where the flight lines would be and we were properly escorted and parked our aircraft. The ground crew already knew what airplanes were scheduled for what type of check. Incidentally, mine was scheduled for a 25 hour check and the cowling came off that night and some work was done on it and the next morning the cowling was off and that's another story. But then we were put into vehicles �and we were taken to our billets and this was a contrast. My group, the pilot's group was transported across town, right through the center of town and we saw evidence of the bombing that had taken place that day and the day before and there was debris all about and crowds of people, masses of people that I had never seen before. It was just overpowering the number of people. Streets filled with people shoulder to shoulder, it seemed. But we arrived and our billets were in the dormitories of a former girl's school and this is western construction and a dining room downstairs and a bar and beds and instead of cots and mosquito netting - oh we did have mosquito netting also. And so these were palatial quarters compared to what we'd been accustomed to. So that was a wonderful contrast and a respite to get away from those bashes as they were known in Burma. Before we left the airfield that evening to go into our quarters - I was Assistant Operations Officer - and I'd made out the schedule for the next morning alert. The maintenance was already squared away in terms of what was to be done. Then having done that and secured a place of operation, that's when we moved into our billets. The next morning we were out at sunrise, a little before sunrise to have an alert ready for takeoff and it was at that time that I saw it was daylight and I'm looking at all these coolies working on the airfield and that was amazing with the rollers being pulled and the splitting of rocks by women and children and the totality of the human effort to improve and repair the runway and the taxi and parking areas also. I was impressed with that. Then I was doing other work because my plane was in for a check - the first Jing bow, that's an air alarm sounded, an alert and four planes took off. Then there was a two ball alert - that means they're closer. So four other planes were sent off and four more. By this time, right after the first Jing bow and after the sound of the second, I streamed down to the line I said "get that cowling back on my P-40" and Harry Fox was our line chief, they started putting the cowling back on, they hadn't gotten that far and they got the cowling on and I eventually - many things happened in terms of the first five making contact and then breaking off and then others, the second two flights making contact �with a formation of nine Japanese bombers that had flown up from Indo-China, that was where they were based and doing their practice runs over Kunming. So I caught up with the fight, with all of these guys making passes. FRANK BORING: Wait - I want a lot more detail on that particular thing - the warning net - so you're in Kunming now ED RECTOR: Fairly well on into our stay in Toungoo, I became aware of the role that Chinese people, Chinese personnel played and would play an ever-increasing important role in our endeavor. The first impression was that there were Chinese in Toungoo including the Colonel's Aide, P. Y. Shu, and also several others in terms of specialties, but it came home to me when I found out that all of our P-40's, the 99 P-40's that we eventually received and were assembled in Rangoon, they were assembled by Chinese and with a Tech Rep, a Technical Representative and they were test hopped before we ferried them up to Toungoo by a Chinese pilot, who incidentally later turned out to be one of the dearest friends I've had, later Chief of the Air Force, Ambassador to Korea, the whole bit. But he was a test pilot who flew every one of those P-40's before we got them in. FRANK BORING: His name? ED RECTOR: That test pilot was Y.T. Low, the friend of the AVG, later one of the dearest friends I've ever had in my life. I knew him on Taiwan and later he was Commander of the Chinese Air Force, later Ambassador to Korea. FRANK BORING: Were you aware of what was going on with the Chinese interaction? ED RECTOR: Still in Burma we were briefed about the ground net. I can bring it in in terms of seeing the ground net in operation. We had been �briefed about it before so I can start with the first Jing-bow and say… (break) ED RECTOR: In addition to the physical damage that we saw as we drove through town from the airfield into our billets, another aspect that was very apparent to us was the support the Chinese gave us. Hundreds of them on the airfield that helped park the airplanes and they of course were responsible for feeding us and bedding us and boarding us and tending to us and caring for us, that was apparent the first night. Thereafter, they were the people who slung the props and did the hard manual labor and the next morning, when we got the first Jing bow alert, there came into being the full appreciation of what Chennault had briefed us on before, the effectiveness of the ground warning net that he had organized on his own when he came to China and it was all over China. And the effectiveness of it was that when that first Jing bow went up, those planes were being warmed up and taking off in Indo-China and they had watchers that close to know about it. When the second Jing bow was sounded, they had crossed over Lao Kay? Coming up to Kunming and the third Jing bow is when they're 150 kilometers away. So that was an indication of the effectiveness of the net that we had been briefed on. The next morning we were prepared for operations and we had the early dawn alert out and ready and manned. The rest of us came out about an hour later and it was then that we heard the first Jing bow. My plane had been readied for a 25 hour check, which meant that the cowling, the covering of the engine, had been taken off and the mechanics and technicians were just getting ready to turn to in terms of what a 25 hour check includes, and I yelled to them, ran down to the flight line actually, and said "put that cowling back on" and promptly went back, got my parachute and got my cap and paraphernalia, ran back and got in the airplane, warmed it up. Prior to this, the early morning alert flight had taken off. Two other flights had taken off later with the second Jing bow, and I got off after they did and joined up with them due east of Kunming in high towering �cumulus clouds. I saw the fellows hanging on their props shooting at this formation of nine bombers in a big, beautiful Vee. I plowed on in and I said I'm not going into that maelstrom, because I thought, how are they keeping from killing each other? Because they were just hanging and making passes and no bombers were going down. So I pulled up to the high perch, that's the beam of the last of the formation, the last guy on the port side of this vee, and I stood up there in a typical attack thing that you're taught from the first day you learned fighter tactics, and that's called a curve of pursuit, and with that I came in like this, rolled in, and you're all moving forward and you are inevitably drawn in behind, but I started firing at an angle off of about 40 degrees, gradually closed until the last 100 yards, I was going right up the tail of the airplane. I could see my bullets hitting the plane and it wouldn't go down. Something happened to me then that was unique and I learned forever and thereafter, I got what is called target fascination, that is, you become fascinated with the target and you fly into it. I damned near did it. At the last split second - and I'm still shooting, my guns have been shooting for seven seconds, five seconds, which is a long burst - and at the last moment I shoved the stick forward and I came so close that airplane - I can see in my mind's eye today the camouflage and the Zeus buttons and the welding and as I went underneath, I saw - right in his face - the dust bin gunner hanging over his gun, and I had shot his lower jaw away. But with that target fixation, I damned near killed myself and I learned from it and never did it again, obviously. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 6 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector discusses how the news of Pearl Harbor and being at war heightened the AVG's operations, in addition to the important role the Chinese personnel played in their endeavor. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/593c8472e8d17366dc96ed5f22536bc4.mp4 6a5426bd6172edba7779c4287aaee8c0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5310e51d0150ab4c444d8125d2e303e4.pdf 56e108afade0333f775cedd793f0242f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] ED RECTOR: In essence the AVG was comprised of dedicated people and this dedication and the relative lack, in fact the almost total lack of any confrontational aspects or any spit and polish that we knew as military people, both technicians, ground crew and pilots, was missing and the reason we got along so well, aside from the bad apples that I have mentioned, was the fact that there was mutual respect. We knew that we had the best people, we had seen them perform, and again to repeat, it was the mutual respect that these guys knew what they were doing and they knew that we were fairly effective pilots with the scores that we started piling up. So there was no reason for any conflict at all and why, by and large, in fact not by and large, but in almost every instance there was complete cooperation. FRANK BORING: Let's try to get more detail in - I keep using the word discipline and I use it as a two-edged sword, the discipline the military talks about as necessary for an effective unit that held the unit together and operated almost like a business as opposed to a military unit. You've mentioned self-respect, how Chennault fits into this somewhere, the evidence that you saw of people doing things and you go oh that person does that well. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at that if you could once again give us the answer back again in perhaps a different form? �ED RECTOR I thought I had, but give me 30 seconds. The key to the success of the American Volunteer Group stems from several things really. We evolved in the AVG at that time, left the discipline, the control of the military service. That's how we performed. We arrived in Toungoo and that discipline that we knew before, it was ingrained in us and it started with Chennault. He's an ex-military man, a retired military man, we were. We knew and he knew what was required of people and you do your job and you don't get into trouble and he instilled that along with his fascinating personality really. There wasn't an AVG'er that was not struck by the magnetism of this man. So it started from Chennault and down from him to the flight line, the former Master Sergeants in the Army and Chief Bosun's in the Navy and Marine Corps. These were men in authority with responsibility and the technicians and the others that were fully qualified in their fields. Once you saw their capability, and above all their dedication to doing the job, then there just automatically arose a mutual regard and above all, respect for each other and out of that flowed the comradery and the support. There was no saluting or sir'ing at all because it wasn't required and we were not a military outfit. But the regard that we had for each other, and again the respect. These were smart people and aside from the bad apples, very few, less than 5 pilots and ground crew combined, that were kicked out and sent home, there could not have been gathered a more competent, informal, nonmilitary coterie or cadre of people, than the AVG. FRANK BORING: If you would ………… once you heard of Pearl Harbor? ED RECTOR: Recall that continuing contingents of AVG'ers were still arriving in batches of 4, 10 and 16 right up and past December 7th December 8th out there - Pearl Harbor day, we had people still arriving and we had pilots incidentally who had never fired the guns on the P-40 prior to going into combat. Good story there that I think I should intercede with. One pilot came down after his first dog fight and shot down an airplane and he also had a probable and �he came in and was being debriefed and the armorer finally came up and said "Bob, why didn't you fire your 50's?" and he said "I did" and he said "No you didn't, there's not one shell gone." Well this guy had been taught how to take the 30 calibers - you do this, they're all manually charged, like this, it's manually charged. The two 50 calibers are up here firing synchronized through the prop. You grab a pistol handle and you pull it all the way back to your shoulder until it stops and let it go and then you have loaded it and it's ready to fire and Bob did not - he'd never fired guns before, he was an instructor before signing up. And he had grabbed these handles and pulled them back right here and let them go and he thought they were firing and he had shot down an airplane and got another probably by using only his 30 calibers. But December 7th, the 8th out there, I recall it very well because I happened to be having breakfast with Chennault that morning, it was about 7:30 in the morning and the message center came in with the message and that's when we first heard that Pearl Harbor had been attacked and he stood right up - and I won't say that I saw a smile on his face but I will tell you this, there was a look of relief that even that taciturn man could not hide and he said "well, this is it" and he started quietly and gave a couple of orders. He said "get 4 airplanes airborne immediately" and then he set up other patrols during the day, relief. These sorts of actions proceeded during the day. During the next couple of days he was in conference with the Generalissimo. As a matter of fact, he flew to Kunming and then came back and then he met with the British who came up from Toungoo. The big Air Commander of southeast Asia was there, Sir so and so Poppin (Brooke-Popham), and the Chinese, General Chennault and the Brit's arrived at after the first week, what the deployment of our force would be, because it was going to be hurried up quickly because now we are in the war. We, the pilots and the ground crew, we realized the balloon is up. This puts a totally different aspect or picture, our country is at war, so this is not to protect the Burma Road, this is all out. So we were even more motivated, if that were possible. So after this change in our attitude and this week of conferencing, one of the squadrons was - �the Third Squadron, was dispatched to Rangoon to help the British, the RAF, defend Rangoon and the hurry up operation of dispatching us to Kunming, the Second and First Squadrons was hurried up, expedited because the Japanese had just resumed the bombing of undefended Kunming. So this was hurried up by a week, our deployment to Kunming. We took off - those two squadrons - and arrived in Kunming about 5 in the afternoon and there was smoke in the city where the Japanese bombers - they were using Kunming as a bombing practice target. We saw the smoke and the debris in the city when we landed and were deployed for the night and then were up and ready at 7 o'clock the next morning for combat, we had alert on the line. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 5 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector discusses the dedication and mutual respect that fueled the success of the American Volunteer Group, in addition to how the news of Pearl Harbor affected them and their operations. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/197eae2c4094855522fdfe8a6d72faed.mp4 704b6cf6506e1945ce0b32efe80948d1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/76a87c823fdd05723621758dffc4a1c3.pdf d756152eeb7bdb4b361c53259d17e585 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] ED RECTOR: I asked the General then why we didn't have such a program, that I would think that it would be helpful and beneficial. And he said "Eddie, I'll tell you a story. When I arrived in China and in my first meeting with the Generalissimo and Madame Chiang, Madame Chiang saw me to the door and in saying goodbye and thanking her I said "By the way Madame Chiang, I wonder if you could recommend to me a Chinese tutor." She said "What for?" He said "Well I need to learn the Chinese language." She says "What for?" And I said "Well Madame Chiang, aviation is a technical business and it must be taught - there are technical aspects that must be understood and I would think that I would need to know the language." And with that Madame Chiang folded up one tiny fist and beat it in the palm of her hand and said "Don't you ever learn Chinese." And he said "Well why, Ma'am." and she said "Because then you will become like all the British and all the Americans who have come to China over the years and the decades to help us and you'll become forgiving of our shortcomings and failures and you will become an old China hand and you are therefore useless to us. We want someone to be absolutely firm in fact dictatorial in allowing us to get over these decades of forgiveness that we've been getting from the western world." And he said "So Eddie that was good enough for me." And I said "Well Sir, if it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me too." �FRANK BORING: Let's now look at Chennault's - from the point of view of you were a young pilot, you'd already gone through training in the Navy, had a certain knowledge and understanding of the airplane that you flew, certain amount of confidence in what you were doing, Chennault was actually talking about things that were foreign to you in some ways, in terms of his tactics. Give us from that perspective, not the later perspective of after you'd done battle and tested out his theories, but the young pilot sitting there listening to this man, who you were literally putting your life in his hands? ED RECTOR: In those morning briefing's that he gave to all of the pilots, and it was the same briefing to everyone and it was 2-1/2 to 3 weeks long, he talked about and explained the capabilities of the P-40 and the capabilities of the Japanese aircraft and particularly the Japanese Zero which was their top line fighter. The significant thing that he taught us was to use the assets of the P-40 in fighting the Japanese aircraft. There were 3 basic things. First you cannot out-turn a Japanese airplane, their radius of turn is much shorter, never try to do a typical turning dog fight. Secondly, you have him out-gunned, never refuse a head-on pass, and thirdly, when he is out-turning you when you have made a pass, stick the nose down because he's got a radial engine and you've got an in-line engine, stick the nose down 20, 40, 60 degrees and you'll immediately pull away, use that speed to climb back up and join the fight again. He said if you keep those 3 principals in mind and never try to turn in a dog fight, that's the way to fight the Japanese. And that is precisely what we were schooled in and what we were drilled in and we followed that. It's interesting to note that Chennault later, after December 7th, wrote a 10 page treatise that he sent back to General Hap Arnold explaining the tactics that were used and why they were so successful and why we had been successful on December 20th, 25th, 27th, and subsequently and that bit of information was never disseminated to the field and several of us have wondered since that had it been disseminated, how many P40 pilots in the Philippines and Java, New Guinea, Australia and �elsewhere might have lived had they not tried to turn with the Zero. FRANK BORING: What was your impression, your opinion, if you will as a pilot, of the Japanese pilot before Chennault started talking to you about it and then what was your impression after Chennault started educating you in the Japanese pilot, as a pilot? ED RECTOR: The lectures by Chennault had taught us, first of all to respect the Zero and that's what we had prepared for and we had due and proper respect for the Japanese aircraft. When fighting actually started, we found that the Japanese, the pilots were bold, they were effective in many instances and we also ran into some ancient aircraft. We ran into some fixed-wing aircraft over Rangoon and over northern Thailand, but we also ran into the other versions of the Zero. So we ran the gamut of what we faced. They had fixedwing dive-bombers also. We met all those 3 types. The thing that we were aware of, and became aware of real fast, was that the Japanese didn't know how to escort bombers. They always sat back about a mile or 2 miles, rather than put escort fighters up forward, like all U.S. and all other Air Forces do and to the end of the war, later in the 14th Air Force, that is the way they fought. The fighters were always back a mile to 2 miles and they never had a forward escort, ahead of the bomber formations. That continued during our stay in Burma until we were pushed out. FRANK BORING: Let's go back to the pilots themselves. Before Chennault started giving you lectures on - not the capabilities of the airplanes - but the Japanese as pilots. I know in America there was a lot of propaganda of the Japanese as having bottle neck glasses and buck teeth; they didn't know how to fly and all this kind of stuff. Did you have that impression? Or what was your impression of the Japanese as fighter pilots before and then what information did Chennault give you that may have changed your opinion of that? �ED RECTOR: Chennault in his briefing's had said that the Japanese pilots were brave, they were cocky, they were sure and against the competition, which was the Chinese Air Force, they had been very effective, but they had their vulnerabilities and that, first of all, do not believe in the denigration of the Japanese pilot as being unable to fight or see, he is very capable, as you will find out when you get into combat. Then he said there is a degree of rote-ness in their performance once in combat or going into combat and he was absolutely right. Later when we did get into combat we found that he was absolutely right. FRANK BORING: During this period of time in training, you got a chance to really get to know the men that you were working with. When you first arrived in Toungoo there already were some people that were not going to take the heat and the conditions. Give us some impressions of the men that you had met there. Not just the ones that eventually stayed on, but also your opinion of - what was your reaction to some of the people that resigned early and how was this process of getting to know the men? ED RECTOR: Meeting the rest of the AVG personnel after we arrived in Toungoo was - looked forward to it and eventually you meet everyone. Of course I met all of my squadron mates the first day there. Then on the flight line I met the ground personnel and eventually most of the ground personnel in all the other squadrons as well as the categories of specialists, from supply to propeller experts and so on. My impression was that this is a very select and able outfit. During that period there were some - call them defections - 2 or 3 or 4 who decided to go home. I never knew them, knew nothing about them but they were very few on the order of 3 or 4, certainly less than 5. Then the rest of them were effective people. Little did I know how effective they were until we got into combat. We had, without a doubt, a selection of the most capable, able, smart, dedicated crew chiefs, armorers, radiomen, that it is possible to assemble anywhere. Without them, �let me tell you, we would have been dead in the water by April 1942, were it not for their smarts and dedication. FRANK BORING: In November of 1941, the AVG had come to look like a trained fighter group. You had gone through the preliminary - learning how to fly the P-40's. During that period of time though, some of the pilots had never flown a P-40, some of them had been used to other types of aircraft which were completely different from the P40. Please describe any of the problems, as you saw it, of not only yourself, but also in your evidence of what you saw around you, the problems that went on during training. Because we know that Chennault was very frustrated at times, in fact at certain times he even closed everything down and had you go back into the classroom. Give us your impressions of that training period time? ED RECTOR: During this period of training in the fall of 1941, aside from Chennault's lectures and classroom work, we did a lot of training in the airplane, getting to know it. As an example, I got in the P-40, for my first flight I had a cockpit check and I looked out at that long nose and I started up the engine, and you have never seen a more safe, slow taxiing out to the flight line. I expected that nose to do this - it is so far out there - because I'd been flying SB2U2's dive-bombers in the Navy - with the radial engine and that nose on that P-40, that Allison engine, it stuck out to the horizon and I tiptoed out to the runway and took off and after a couple of flights, why that disappears and you taxi confidently, if not cockily, because that's one barrier that you're past. The other guys also had the same reaction with that big nose sticking out. In the operations there were several mishaps as one would expect. On interesting story that happened eventually after we were in China, one of our colleagues, a pilot, he had crashed three P-40's. He was a P-boat pilot before being recruited, flying big boats in the Navy and on the crash of the 4th P-40 - just coming in for a landing - he would land 10 feet in the air and the plane would drop in and there went a P-40. Finally Chennault called him in and said "Listen you're fast becoming an ace here, but you're knocking down P-40's instead of �Japanese" (this was after the war started) and he said "I think I'm gonna move you over to the flight section and you can help fly the Beechcraft." This pilot, tears running down his cheeks, literally, said -- by this time it's General Chennault - "General, don't do that to me, just send me home." He said "I came over here to fight and that's what I want to do and I'm not going to fly a Lockheed aircraft transport." Sobbing he said "Just send me home." Chennault, if I might digress here and say what my opinion of Chennault, he was a brilliant tactician, he was the greatest leader that I have ever known. If there is one weakness that Chennault had, it was a soft heart. He was too forgiving, both in the AVG and also later when he was Commander of the 14th Air Force. He put up with mediocrity simply because in the instance of this pilot that I have been talking to you about, if you show him that you want to fight, so Chennault forgave him and said "Okay, I'll give you one more chance." Do you know that that individual went on and he eventually shot down two aircraft? FRANK BORING: What I'd really like to get into now in the training part, what was the discipline like? And the differences that you saw between the way the AVG operated and the way that you were used to in the military and going into the fact that there was no ranks and all that. For the public to note what that was like. So as I know it, but the audience doesn't know it, there was a real sense of purpose and they knew what their jobs were. But give us an idea what the discipline was like and the difference between AVG and what you were used to in the Navy. ED RECTOR: The contrast between the AVG and the military service, being formerly Navy, was quite a contrast indeed. There was comradery, there was a looseness, there was not the fastidiousness, if you will, in our organization. It was a hail fellow well met bit between the ground crew and the pilots. We did have rank in terms of flying in the squadrons. From Squadron Leader, Flight Leader and Wingman and there was a hierarchy in terms of Line Chief and Chief of Specialties amongst the technicians and the ground crew. �But amongst all of us there was no saluting or sir'ing and that led eventually - there inevitably would be some instances of bad apples that had to be cast aside. Fortunately, thank God, they were few. They were literally fired and sent home with a dishonorable discharge. But by and large these were all dedicated people and you made a point of getting along. And I might say that those that were discharged and sent home they were pilots as well as ground crew. Again, fortunately very few. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 4 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector discusses his initial training period with General Chennault and meeting the rest of the AVG personnel in Toungoo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8118db9aa69f7fd7732d7d4453bc2585.mp4 78cc64174056666be1c58c6410128857 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1251447ea7fc7f0cb9331e49d15385fe.pdf 127a491900e4cc10fffbce6d279f1064 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: You were just - when we got the interruption - talking of the sister ship that was bringing over another contingent. ED RECTOR: At the end of that 10 day stay in Java, Batavia, now Jakarta, we got on the sister ship of the Bloemfontein, the Jaegersfontein -, that had transported other contingents of the AVG to the Far East and after boarding her, we proceeded to Singapore. We were offloaded there and the first two nights we were billeted in an Army camp. It was two horrible nights. If you haven't slept on or seen or know what a charpoy is, that is an Indian roped bed or cot. That's what we had to sleep on in tents. And after the second day our fearless leader, Eddie Goyette, went down to see the American Consul and that afternoon we were moved out and put in two hotels, The Sunrise Hotel and those of us who were lucky enough, in the fabulous hotel "The Raffles" the old Raffles. And there we stayed for night on to 3 weeks. And what a time we had in Singapore. It was absolutely delightful and that was our first introduction to Asia, as it were. And while there, of the course the Chinese community, how they knew I do not know, but they gave us a banquet and I mean if you know anything about Chinese hospitality, it was a sumptuous banquet, at a marvelous restaurant, sort of outdoorsy like and there we were introduced first to Chinese food. I have since become a lover of Chinese food and I �can't go two or three weeks without an inner hunger for Chinese chow. But there we were introduced to shark's fin soup, which I love, but then it was ugh bit. But what a banquet we had and we were introduced to these strange foods, foreign to us. But I must say with later appreciation. It was a marvelous banquet. How they knew who we were, I have no idea. But the Chinese know these things. And I made friends there in Singapore that I have to this very day. Incidentally, back to the Raffles Hotel, I fell in love with that place knowing its historical background and I've been back purposely three times since. They've added a wing, a modern wing, but the old Raffles is still there in all of its appealing glory with all of the names and the hallways and the dedicated areas for all of the - for Kipling all of the other British writers who resided there from time to time. So it's a marvelous place to re-visit. After the three weeks, then we were put on a Norwegian coastwise freighter, steamer. It had been in the Far East coast lines shipping. This was a 4 day trip and thank God it didn't last any longer - to Rangoon. We got aboard and there were bunks just for about 30 or 32 people. Now picture if you will a prison cell or a wing where there are levels, 3 cots to a side in one room and then also consider that up in the Captain's quarters there were 2 bunks available with the luxury of proper accommodations. We cut straws to see who got those 2 bunks and I of course wasn't one of the winners. Now then, let me explain the hellaciousness of living in those cramped quarters down below for those 4 days and nights. At night when the light was off you could hear all this skittering about on the floor and you'd turn on the light and there were cockroaches, I kid you not, that big that were scurrying to hide. We put up with that and if you had to get up at night - I know one of our chaps sought to be quiet and not wake the people and not turn on the light and he crunched several of these cockroaches. Thereafter it was quite okay for anyone who had to go to turn on the light while these critters would scurry and hide. We endured that for 4 days and nights. We arrived in Rangoon, went up the river and debarked in the early afternoon and we were met there by Skip Adair, who came down from Toungoo to greet us along with a couple of other �people and it was relatively easy. They had coolies and help that off loaded our gear on busses and took us to the train station and then we had a delightful trip. We were now in Kipling country. We got on the train during daylight and it took 4 hours to go from Rangoon up to Toungoo, looking out of the window and talking to other passengers and to ourselves, through endless rice paddies and saying to ourselves and to each other "we're here at last" and that's how we arrived in Toungoo. FRANK BORING: Please describe, especially keeping in mind your whole fascination with Kipling and you've had all this time now to anticipate what it was going to be like to finally be there, give us an idea of what it was like to finally arrive in Toungoo and what did you find? ED RECTOR: Looking forward to what to expect when we eventually arrived in Rangoon, I thought about it, trying to envision what it might be like, but I just could not see, so it was totally new to me. When we arrived Rangoon was a city of broad streets, lots of trees and it had that comfortable, colonial, British look. Even then I detected with my first encounter with that part of the world and I felt maybe this was the way it would be and thereafter everything that I saw was more than 50% of the time it was a revelation to me in terms of the natives - so it was new and that was the fascination, that it was totally new and I was learning and that continued right on until the entry into China - the wonderment of things that happened. I recall as a boy seeing in the National Geographic a story about a native tribe in Burma where the ladies had necks that were elongated and there were 12 or 20 silver necklaces around their neck that kept their head up. That tribe existed 10 miles away up in the hills from Toungoo where we were based. One Sunday - we traveled by - all of us had a bike - about 6 or 8 of us biked up there to see these people and to take pictures and see them and it was a revelation to me and all of us had heard about such people and knew about this practice. We saw one lady whose necklaces had been removed and she could barely hold her head erect, in fact she couldn't. But their necks were truly elongated and it was a practice that just left us in �wonderment. That is an example of the side trips that we took to acquaint ourselves with what was going on. Another instance was we would go shopping. Chennault lectured us from 7 in the morning until 8 o'clock and then we flew until 1 o'clock. Then it was so hot in Burma that we had been retired for - not siesta time but no activity and then at 5 or 6 we would start again. But during the late afternoon and evenings we would go on shopping trips. It was some 5 miles into the town of Toungoo and we would peddle in and do shopping and buy objects d'art and whatever else interested and we all became fascinated with the native dress, both men and women, which is called a longee, which is nothing but a skirt, a wrap-around skirt. It's called lungee in Calcutta, India, but in Burma it's a longee. So we bought those because it was such a handy garment and it's so very cool. And the natives it didn't seem to bother them in terms of their activity and endeavor. So everybody ended up with 2 or 3 or 4 of these longee's and I would call Bert Christman and myself buying longee's in the shop and I picked out 2 or 3 and he does the same. Then we'd hear this snickering and look around and all these little girl salesmen and customers are snickering and a couple of men are laughing and we asked "why you laugh?" Well the patterns we had chosen for attractiveness - and they're flowered patterns - men don't wear flowered patterns - they are always checked, so we put those back and got the checked ones and thanked them for letting us know. FRANK BORING: When you arrived in Toungoo, if you could give us an idea of where were you billeted, what was the camp like, and then eventually what were your first immediate duties? What were you first asked to do? ED RECTOR: When we arrived in Toungoo, we were assigned to our own billets by squadron. I was assigned to the second squadron and we had the pallets in officer's billet and it was about 200 yards from the mess hall and lounge. All of these buildings, by the way, are bamboo constructed, walls with hard wooden floors and flip up and out windows that were closed at night. �(break) FRANK BORING: What we're looking for is really an idea - and you're doing exactly - the division of the squadrons, and if you could also explain when you start again because it was all interrupted, how were the squadrons divided? You said you were assigned to a squadron how was that done? And then where you were billeted and description of the barracks and then eventually what were your first duties, your first introduction to the AVG staff, I guess when you first met Chennault? If I remember correctly, he was not there at this time. But begin with the arrival in Toungoo, the assignment into squadrons, why were you assigned to Pandas as opposed to any other. ED RECTOR: We arrived in Toungoo and prior to that time the selection of your squadron had already been decided by Chennault and our colleague, Charlie Mott, who sat down with Chennault and who had our names and we were allocated and assigned to the squadrons and Charlie, being Navy, he sort of got the Second Squadron primarily all Navy, which it was. We had two Army Air Corps guys and we lost one of those and the rest of us were all Navy in the Second Squadron, the Panda Bears. That's how we were assigned and the men, the ground crew personnel, the technicians, they were assigned the same way. (break) FRANK BORING: Begin in Toungoo again. ED RECTOR: After arriving in Toungoo, we already had our assignments for squadrons that we would be assigned to and we were met. (break) FRANK BORING: Start over right from the very beginning. �ED RECTOR: On arrival in Toungoo by rail, we had already been assigned to our squadrons. That assignment had been arrived at by Chennault and our colleague, Charlie Mott, who had the lists of people, both ground and pilots and they were assigned accordingly. Our billets were of course by squadron. The pilot squadron, the billet, in terms of where we slept, ours, the Second Squadron was 200 yards from the mess hall and the lounge. The First Squadron and the Third Squadron, their officer billets were in the same area. Down below, the men were also billeted by squadron near their mess hall and their lounge and the assignments having been made by the time any of us - and we arrived in contingents - by the time we arrived in Toungoo everyone knew their assignment, where to go and were transported to those billets. The billets themselves were native made. It might be constructive to say that this Toungoo Air Base was built by the RAF and was one of several strategic bases up in the central part and northeastern part of Burma, strategic locations for the RAF and this was 190 miles north of Rangoon and it served our purposes ideally. The billets were already in place and the cook shacks, the mess halls, so it was ideal. The runway was less than 5000 feet. There were no taxi-ways. You taxied down the runway to take off. The regime that we followed might be of interest. Chennault addressed every incoming group, the pilots and we would have breakfast at 6 in the morning. At 7 o'clock he would address us in terms of tactics, what he expected, describing the Japanese aircraft, telling us the tactics and techniques to be employed, particularly against the Japanese Zero, which was their top line fighter at the time and following his half hour of instruction each morning and this went on, a lecture each morning, for about 3 weeks. Then we would start flight training. We would go out and check out in - first of all we had to check out in the P40 because none of us had flown it before. FRANK BORING: Before you get into that, could you describe the first time you actually met Chennault? �ED RECTOR: Meeting Chennault was something all of us had looked forward to and I met him on the base at the headquarters building when we were brought in and introduced to him and then later, after we had checked into our billets, I met him again at that evening meal in the mess hall and the lounge and I found the occasion to say to him "Colonel Chennault, may I ask you a question, Sir?" and he said "yes". I said "I wonder if you have any plans for us to receive, those of us who want to, to receive instruction in the Chinese language?" and he said "No". And I said "I wondered about it because some of us took lessons with a Chinese Professor on the way over and we found it fascinating for the time we were aboard ship and I just thought that you might continue this here, because it would appear to be helpful." He said "no, we have no such program." I said "I wonder why, Sir?" and by this time he's calling me Eddie, he says "Eddie, I'll tell you. Back in 1937 when I arrived in China in Nanking I went in to see the Generalissimo and Madame Chiang and had my first 45 minutes with them and Madame Chiang then, when the meeting was over, saw me to the door and I turned to her and said 'Madame Chiang, I wonder if you would recommend to me a Chinese tutor?'" and she said "What for?" I said "Well Ma'am, aviation is a technical business and I'll have to speak the language if I'm going to get over the points that have to be made technically." and he said with that Madame Chiang took her little fist and beat it in the palm of the other one and said "Don't you ever learn Chinese." And he said "Well why Ma'am?" and she said "Because then you'll become like all of the British and the other Americans who come over here to help us. Then you start forgiving us for all of our shortcomings and failures and you'll become another old China hand and that is not what we need." � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 3 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector describes his first impressions upon arriving in Rangoon and later by rail in Toungoo, in addition to his first meeting with General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0bb74d5e5ec99662127d72825f0598c3.mp4 c69ee52acebd32d05748063e07597260 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a0458ee82e7731451a81b6ea8bd27100.pdf 9a6e0e52c2ae0902409bf0356f501e8a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: If you could please relate to us your arrival home, the discussion you had with your family and then actually the train trip. ED RECOTR: On saying goodbye to our squadron that was going back to sea, I proceeded home to Marshall, North Carolina to pack and proceed to San Francisco from there and to also tell my parents that I was departing and going overseas and that I was leaving the Navy. I did not tell them that I might be in combat and give them any of the details, I just said that I was going out to the Far East to assist the Chinese and that it would be in Burma and China and to help get supplies into China and I explained to them why. That this was the sole source - and they were aware of what had happened and was happening to China - so I did not in any way leave them with any concern about what would happen to me and I blithely left, got aboard a train in my hometown. I went from there to Chicago, across the great plains, through Cheyenne, into San Francisco, and there joined the coterie that I was a member of, where we remained for 5 days before setting sail on the Bloemfontein. FRANK BORING: Before we get into that, two questions: one, what was the reaction of your parents and two, what was it about the train trip that you found to be so moving? �ED RECTOR: When I told my parents I was going out to the Far East, both of them said "Son, do we envy you! We know that you have been interested in that part of the world and your explanation that this is a heaven sent opportunity, how lucky you are and how we envy you and we know you'll enjoy it." Then getting on the train, that's when I - really the train trip took about 3 days - I fell in love with trains and today I'm a train buff and I have ridden 2/3 of the world's great railroads - trains - around the world, by the way. I am sure that that trip was the one that sewed me up and confirmed my continuing interest in trains. Crossing the plains I met a number of people and saw this vast nation of ours and although I'm good in geography, even I did not appreciate the expanse of this country. Just like my friends who visit me today from abroad, they are absolutely amazed at the size of the Continental United States as I was then in crossing it. FRANK BORING: Now if you would, give us your first impressions, that first time you walked in to the hotel and there's this group of guys from all over the country, gathered together and all going to do the same basic thing. What was that like? ED RECTOR: When I walked into the St. Francis Hotel, there was a person representing CAMCO that greeted us and greeted me and for the first time I met my colleagues, there were 29 of us, by the way, in our batch that went over. We introduced ourselves to each other and as I say, were there for about 5 days and we got to know each other quite well and it was an interesting group. Some Navy, some Marines, some Army Air Corps types, and they were all "hail fellows well met" and we got along famously. By the time we got aboard the Bloemfontein to set sail, we were all old buddies and had talked in detail and wondering ourselves just what the future held for us. But all of us anticipating the future and wanting to be a part of it. FRANK BORING: Knowing that these later became some of the closest friends, if not the closest friends of your whole life, one of the questions I've �always asked of the guys, what was it about that first meeting that just melded you all together? What was it that caused that immediate camaraderie - you were from all over the country, you were from different branches of the service, which traditionally has animosity between Army and Navy and all this kind of stuff - what was it about those 3 days or that first getting together - from your perspective? ED RECTOR: In looking back since that first meeting, I've often wondered about what welded us together with the cohesiveness and what turned out to be dedication and how well we got along, and I haven't really defined it except perhaps we knew that we were heading into danger, possibly and this would have a welding effect because we were fully aware that we were heading into peril, danger, possibly and I'm sure that that was an annealing effect that formed that camaraderie and later affection that we held for each other. FRANK BORING: Now there's been many, many stories that we've heard about the trip over on the boat and I would just like to hear your perspective of the trip, in as much detail as you want. The ship itself, the routine, some of the people that perhaps stuck out, either that became good friends or people that later on you got to know and also the stopovers that you made before you actually arrived in Rangoon. I know that's a tall order but as much as you want to roll along those waves, we'd like to hear about and any particular stories that stick out that you saw. ED RECTOR: We boarded the Bloemfontein, that's a ship of the Java-East India line, a Dutch ship. It had a Dutch crew and aboard we were… (break) ED RECTOR: After our meeting in San Francisco at our get acquainted first gathering, there were several briefings, one that was significant is that we would going over under cover and we were all assigned positions or professions and it varied from our leader… �(break) ED RECTOR: Our leader of our detachment 29, Ed Goyette, believe it or not he went over as a baseball player. (break) FRANK BORING: You've got to start from the beginning, about the secrecy and the initial meeting. ED RECTOR: After our initial meetings there were further briefings, the significant one being that we would all proceed under, not an alias, but as professions other than what we were and I of course went as a Draftsman. Another aspect of our assignment in terms of profession, Eddie Goyette, our leader, went as a baseball player. So we ran the gamut of professions, all of us with something different and that was the cover, as it were, that was assigned to us and with that new identification we went aboard ship and proceeded for the next 6 weeks. FRANK BORING: In terms of the reasons for the subterfuge, if you will, what did they tell you about it and, in actual fact, in your own opinion and the opinion of your fellows, how secret really was it? ED RECTOR: The purpose for this fake business or career capability was as cover for our true intentions and what we were really going over for, designed to keep this from the Japanese. That was the intent of it and from there, we proceeded under that assumption and that alias, as it were, all the way throughout the trip. FRANK BORING: In your opinion, was it a secret to the people around you outside of the AVG? ED RECTOR: This alias was fairly well contained aboard ship amongst the other 200 passengers, but I suspect that some of our people might have �let it slip. But I heard - I don't know how true this is - that the Japanese had uncovered us and that there was a broadcast which someone picked up that we had been found, as it were, by the Japanese and that we were identified. I have never tried to confirm this, but that is my understanding and the understanding of several of us who were on that trip. FRANK BORING: Could you in as much detail as you wish, give us an impression of what it was like to be on the boat, some of the incidents that happened, some of the people that stick out in your mind. Not only amongst the AVG but amongst your fellow passengers and the interaction between the AVG and the fellow passengers? ED RECTOR: We boarded the Jaegersfontein for almost a 2 month trip and it was an adventure and a joy unto itself. Aboard in addition to our 29 people were 200 passengers of all types ranging from an Iranian fur merchant to Chinese students returning home, missionaries going back to China, a woman doctor going over to China to do her good works, to a Dutch couple that was going to the Dutch East Indies for a new life. So the cut was totally across the board in terms of professions, nationalities and personalities. That made for a very interesting and fascinating voyage. After we got underway, the ship's routine was explained to us and the bar opened every afternoon at 4 o'clock, as I recall. The first people that joined the bar when it opened was our group, our 29 people and it was funny the first 10 days or two weeks, because the missionaries and the students walked by and would look in and this contingent until eventually one-by-one they started joining us and by the time we debarked from the Bloemfontein, everyone, missionaries, doctors, students were in the bar having fun, having a beer and laughing and singing. We converted them. It took us all of 3 weeks and they had joined us with great hilarity and very successful. An interesting aspect of this is that 24 hours out of Honolulu, we woke up one morning and here is the U.S.S. St. Paul, a cruiser just off of our starboard bow and it's proceeding with us and we wondered what this was all about. It proceeded ahead of us and we stayed �with them for 24 hours till we got into the harbor at Honolulu and dropped anchor. We were in Honolulu for 3 days and nights. We had a good time there. I had never been to Honolulu and again this is the beginning of that Far East venture that drew me in this direction in the first place. Then we found - we stayed aboard ship - we were briefed that we would be - instead of going direct to Manila, when we got underway we would be going to Brisbane, Australia. Well we didn't mind. None of us had ever been to Australia and we would be going blacked out and that we would be escorted for 48 hours by two U.S. Navy destroyers, and that's precisely what happened. There were smokers aboard and you could not light a cigarette on the deck or you were not supposed to, and we truly ran blacked out all the way to Australia. There had to be some disciplining done by the Skipper and when he called all the passengers together he said "we've got food enough for this extended trip, rather than going direct to Manila, so everything is okay and there's plenty of whiskey and plenty of beer." And I might say that the food was awfully good aboard ship. We crossed the equator and of course that was cause for great hilarity when King Neptune performed. We made - not friends - because the barber was King Neptune and a couple of our people treated him rather rudely - and he wasn't in the kindest or smilingest of spirits when a couple of our guys got through with him dumping him in the swimming pool, etc. FRANK BORING: If you could give us a description of the King Neptune's ceremony if you would? ED RECTOR: As you know crossing the equator there is always a ceremony on most every ship there is and it follows a general pattern around the world. Some are more vigorous and participated in with more hilarity than others. I suspect that ours would be in the top 10 percent in terms of what happened on this voyage. I won't tell you all the details but briefly, people were required to swallow things with a string to it and pulled back up and it was sort of really awful, but was participated in with great vigor by our group to the �extent that a couple of our people grabbed King Neptune, who you know has his scepter - trident - sorry, and decrees what will happen - and two of our boys just grabbed him and threw him in the pool and he was more than miffed, let me say. The smile disappeared, but it ended up peacefully and he didn't slit anyone's throat as he continued to cut hair and shave the rest of the trip. We proceeded from there, from the equator on to Brisbane, Australia. That was delightful in that these were new waters, none of us had ever been to Australia, we looked forward to that and we stayed there for 3 days and nights. Then we set sail for Manila. That was an interesting leg of the trip because going up over the drifts to the east of the Great Barrier Reef, we saw all that fluorescent water and all of that beautiful sight at night when a glow followed the ship with the fluorescence and heading into the Philippine Islands, believe it or not, we had aboard of course some Navy types and one of them was a communicator, Mickey Mihalko. We went right through the U.S. Pacific fleet, it was out on maneuvers and Mihalko who reads the dit-dah-ditty, he was reading the flashing light from one of the ships and he said "what ship?" and our guy replied presumably correctly and then they got the go-ahead by the flashing light and old Mihalko was reading it off to us as we stand in the dark running blacked out. So that was interesting and we went right through the fleet. We were in Manila for at least a week. Then from Manila, we went to Batavia, to Java, the Dutch East Indies. There we were off-loaded, our 29 people and we stayed there for 10 days and Tex Hill and I took this occasion to get on a plane, the Dutch KLM, and we flew up to the mountain resort, the capital of Java, and Bert Christman, the three of us, we were squadron mates in the Navy and we stayed there for 3 marvelous days and nights. What a time we had. Then we came back and we lived in a beautiful hotel in Batavia, now called Jakarta. Then a sister ship of the Bloemfontein - the Jaegersfontien that had taken over… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 2 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector discusses leaving the Navy and traveling to San Francisco to join the AVG, in addition to their journey overseas and his experience aboard the Bloemfontein and Jaegersfontein. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/42c1cb983e072ae4f3c47f107dccfe07.mp4 e0ffa93b382df0c50485c5ba3e541c51 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/17e2f1ba58680a27a30110d54549e7ce.pdf 645d2640da1564645dd09951927bd204 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: To begin with Ed, what were you doing prior to joining the military? ED RECTOR: I was attending college, prior to joining the Navy at that time, I was in school and I had tried to join the Army Air Corps prior to that, which required 3 years of college and having failed that physical, I went on and got 4 years and a degree, which was required for flight training - Navy flight training and so I went right from college with an interim summer job, right into flight training at Pensacola in August of 1940. FRANK BORING: What made you want to get involved with airplanes to begin with? ED RECTOR: I was interested in flying from the day I was 12 years old and I had an older brother who was in the Marine Corps and he was home on leave and he said "young fella, the thing for you to pay attention to and inquire about is aviation, it's the coming thing." So I started thinking about it and reading about it and became obsessed with the idea of becoming a flyer - an aviator. To the extent that I used all of my money, what little there was, in buying the Battle Aces the pulp magazines. I had a corner filled with these pulp magazines and I knew all the airdromes, the type aircraft, the Aces of World War I, and by the time I was 17 I knew what my future would be, �or what I hoped it would be and everything in the interim was directed toward that. FRANK BORING: What were you doing before you heard about the opportunity in China? ED RECTOR: When I was selected for flight training, I went to Pensacola, I graduated and I was one amongst the first two classes, 129C that specialized. Prior to that there was a 17 month course and over 410 hours of instruction, but with my class of 129C and the earlier class of 128C, two weeks before, we started specializing and I lucked out and went to carrier duty instead of the big boats, the Pboats and Seaplanes. So I graduated, I was assigned to Bombing 4 of the Ranger Air Group in Norfolk Naval Air Station and I operated with Bombing 4, that was later designated Scouting 41, but in that interim we were doing exercises down in the Caribbean, landing exercises and fleet exercises. And it was at that time, 1940 during the Christmas holidays, that we were back for - in port 2 or 3 weeks until we went back to maneuvering and for operations at sea, and it was during that time that we were approached by a Navy Reserve Commander and were told that there was an organization being recruited to go over and help the Chinese defend the Burma Road. Well Tex Hill had joined my squadron at that time and we were very interested. We listened to his pitch and we presumed that there was nothing to it, this was a pipe dream and we went back to sea and he said I'll see you again when you come in in March. So Tex and I went down in March to his hotel room in downtown Norfolk and heard their pitch and signed up our intent to join, that we were very interested. He said I'll see you again the tail end of June and at that time you will be ready to be released. And we still didn't believe that this was going to happen and we came back and sure enough, the Navy tried to intercede because by this time we were doing neutrality patrol in the Atlantic, scouting out - flying 15 hours a day out on the starboard bow and the port bow out 150 miles and back. And we were naive enough to not know what the hell we were doing in terms of out �there looking for surface ships and there was radio silence, and then we'd fly back if we saw a surface ship and drop a message on the deck of the carrier and it finally came to us that we were looking for German surface raiders. So back to the point that we were being released, the Navy hierarchy, the Commander knew that things were brewing and they reluctantly let us go. But they had to and that's what I was doing up until final release by the Navy to join the American Volunteer Group. FRANK BORING: What did you know about China in this point in time? ED RECTOR: The proposal to go over and defend the Burma Road hit home with me. Since I was 17 years old, I had read everything that Kipling had ever written twice over and that fabled land, I knew that I would never see it, but it was a place that I wanted to see. And here I am being offered a fabulous salary - by salary terms of that era to go and see that fabled Kipling land and get paid for it. So it was Godsend. FRANK BORING: What did you know about Japan? What were your opinions about Japan at this time? ED RECTOR: As to the enemy, Japan, that we would be facing, I knew that they had been an aggressor nation, that I was well aware of their taking over of Manchuria, I was well aware of their aggression against China, I saw the pictures, as did everyone, of the rape of Nanking. I was very aware of their bombing of Panay on the Yangtze River. I knew they were the enemy and that they were quite ruthless and I was also impressed by the fact that they are tough, dedicated fighters and that they would be a very formidable enemy. That was my impression of the Japanese prior to and during the war, because they were a formidable foe. FRANK BORING: You mentioned that Tex Hill, both of you were considering and wanted to get involved in this. What kind of discussion did you have about what to expect there? Of course Tex's background was �Korea. Can you recall and explain to us that sense of excitement of these two friends talking about going off on this new adventure? ED RECTOR: When this offer was made to us by the Reserve Navy Commander to join this organization that Tex and I of course discussed it amongst ourselves and we talked about what a challenge it would be and we discussed and wondered what the unknowns were. We also thought about the aerial competition, yet both of us were absolutely dedicated to being a part of this because it was the opportunity of a lifetime and we said if it comes about - because we didn't know right up until the very last when we were released we didn't think that it would happen and I was one of those naive people who presumed that the U.S. would never go to war and this was an opportunity because I'd gotten an E in dive bombing accuracy and I'd gotten an E in aerial gunnery in the Navy. Truth to tell, this is an opportunity to smell a little cordite that I would not get, presuming we would never go to war. So in that regard, Tex and I looked forward to it, but with the full realization that it wasn't going to be a piece of cake. But we were eager and anxious to give it a go. FRANK BORING: You touched on earlier some of the difficulties in getting out. I wonder if you could give us in more detail - describe the events that occurred when you signed up and what things - was there any kind of difficulty in getting out of the military to get into the AVG? ED RECTOR: When we got back in June and we had been told by the Commander that we would be released, again we didn't believe it and we knew it only when we were released. Eventually I went down to the carrier that night, when it went back to sea, to say goodbye to our squadron mates, but prior to that, our Squadron Commander, when he found out that we were going, he went to the Air Group Commander and the Air Group Commander went to the Skipper of the - by this time it's the old Yorktown - we'd been transferred from the Ranger to the Yorktown - and he, in turn, went �to ComAirlant - that's Commander Aircraft Atlantic Fleet and he got in his little SOC, that is a sea plane that is used for scouting cruisers and battle ships, he got in his little SOC from Norfolk and he flew up and landed in the Anacostia River next to Anacostia Naval Air Station - and remember he's a Rear Admiral - Vice Admiral, and he went in to headquarters of the Chief of Naval Operation's office and he came back and reported this: He said "I sat at the elbow or rather across the desk from the C&O and he called the White House and the White House said 'let those boys go. You've got to release those people per the procedures that have taken place'". He got in his SOC, flew back and we got the word that night from our Skipper, scouting 41, that - and he is the one that related this story that I have just told you - that he came back and he said "you've got to let those fellows go." FRANK BORING: What was told to you about the purpose of your being released and going to join this group? ED RECOTR: When we were being recruited, we asked a bit more detail in terms of what our true mission would be and what it entailed and precisely some of the actions that would take place. We were told that our sole responsibility would be to protect the Burma Road, which was China's sole source of supplies. Because the Japanese had occupied all the port cities and this was the only supply route available to the Chinese and our task would be to provide the security for the land transport of supplies that off loaded in Rangoon and came in the back door, as you were, to continue to supply the Chinese. FRANK BORING: What were the terms of the agreement? What were your responsibilities? What were their responsibilities? ED RECOTR: The precise terms of our contract that we signed involved, first of all, transportation over, insurance, a base pay for pilots of $600.00 a month - this was at a time when an Ensign was making $233.00 a month plus $93.00 flight pay - so that was one of the attractions in �addition to seeing the Kipling land that I referred to that drew our enthusiastic participation and beyond that there was an insurance policy that was paid for. There was TDY considerations in terms of travel, per diem pay that was also rather generous and then $500.00 for every victory or every Japanese plane destroyed. Those were the basic considerations in terms of the finality of the contract that we signed. FRANK BORING: What was your understanding as to the completion of the contract? What was their responsibility upon completion of the one year? ED RECTOR: Continuing with the provisions of their contract, after one year if we chose to return to the States, our return fare was provided for and there would be a termination then upon arrival back in the States, and if we chose to stay on, there were other considerations that I don't recall at the moment. But the basic consideration was that it was a one year contract with the provisions that I have just mentioned and there were additional considerations if you signed over for a second year. All of this presuming, of course, that the U.S. would not be involved in the war. FRANK BORING When you sat down and actually asked a lot of the questions and got some of the details of being paid you were told that you were going to be fighting to protect the Burma Road, did you consider yourself at this point, a mercenary? ED RECTOR: The thought occurred to us as to how we would be viewed by history assuming there would be some action and we did not think of ourselves as mercenaries. We were a defensive mechanism hired by the Chinese as fighter pilots to provide the security for the Burma Road. As a matter of fact, mercenary was not known at that time and we've later been referred to as mercenaries and that might or might not be true because the aspect, the aura of what we did changed once our nation was at war and that put a totally different light on it. �FRANK BORING: At that particular point in your life and with Tex's, but I really want your opinion, what was going through your mind in terms of the realization that you were resigning from your own government's Navy and joining a foreign government? ED RECTOR: On making our final decision you recall that I said that we looked forward to this, not blindly, but with anticipation, fully recognizing that we were going to be shooting and defending and this would be to the benefit of an ally, if you will, and we would be contributing toward their livelihood and existence, in essence, and that there was no regrets or consideration in terms of leaving the U.S. service, because to iterate, I thought the U.S. in my naiveté would never go to war and this was our chance to do something, fully recognizing that it wouldn't be a piece of cake, but there were no qualms in terms of what we were doing. FRANK BORING: Once the contract had been signed, did you assemble in San Francisco or Los Angeles? ED RECTOR: When the signing of the contract was completed and we had seen our squadron off going back to sea, we had instructions to meet and gather in San Francisco to proceed with the organization that was sponsoring us, that was CAMCO - Chinese Aircraft Manufacturing Company - and we had instructions and I was allowed to go home to Marshall, North Carolina and visit with my parents and then in that little town of Marshall, I caught the train and rode the train all the way to San Francisco. It was a delightful trip. I happen to be a train buff and I'm sure that that trip was what converted me. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 1 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector discusses what he was doing prior to joining the military and being recruited by the American Volunteer Group with Tex Hill. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8a1302570a9b185e328506425d040715.mp4 8a917f73a8090b20a594477ab5bddccf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/033b315db7c5a31a5771c1d129691c48.pdf 6816900ce317269241da3b554c940880 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] – audio only FRANK BORING: Including Doc Richards, including the flight crew, these people that you got to know over that period of time, where do you think they fit in the scheme of history - of American history, of what they meant to the Americans, what they meant to the Chinese? RED PETACH: I think the AVG as a whole meant more to the Chinese, because it saved the Chinese and the Chinese, because of the Americans, I think because of what the AVG did for them, were very welcome over there. Even the communists, if you're an American, you're welcome, and although the communists won't recognize the fact that we existed, they Chinese still - you say an American, you've got an entrance right there. And I think the AVG looking back on it, at that time during the war, did the same thing for American ego that the people in Desert Storm did for the American ego just now. I think the valuable thing that came out of that Desert Storm is the fact that the Americans could once again have technical skill, and they came to realize, we can still do it if we want to. If we work at it, we can still do it. As far as the AVG's place in history, I think it will mean more to the Chinese than to the Americans because we helped stop some of the butchering that was going on, the bombing and the butchering that was going on by the Japanese. When you're over there, just say you're American and you're welcome and that was, I think, primarily because of the AVG, the Flying Tigers. �They ask us many times, "Do you mean you speak to the Japanese, they should still be our enemies." And I think as far as American is concerned, I think the prime time during the war, with the effects of the bombing of Pearl Harbor and this, that it gave us a victory, it gave us a morale boost, it gave the Americans a morale boost, it gave the Americans a morale boost that they needed and that they could brag about. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) RED PETACH: The one year period that I spent with the Flying Tigers changed my life greatly, as when I was an exchange student, it changed my life. I've never been away from home so I grew up. The experience I had with the Flying Tigers - I was much more cynical, but I matured, and I think I look back on it as, "that's life", it has its good and its bad. I wouldn't change it, I wouldn't change that year for anything, for the companionship and the experience that I had and I will say, the way the fellows treated me over there, I was spoiled, I was spoiled rotten, and nobody for years could compare with the Flying Tigers, no man was worth anything but the Flying Tigers. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 8 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes what the AVG meant to the Chinese people and their place in history, in addition to how her time with the Flying Tigers changed her life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/329f35f5fcddaed2a1b3d3ca95fc1b8d.mp4 3560a1c8731205461eb7f010480bf58b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3dbaf250dae640daa93c9f2270ff9cda.pdf a6bbe86072e442152cda33e3e2ec0544 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] FRANK BORING: If we could - if you could describe where you were and what you were doing the day when the planes didn't come back, the two planes didn't come back. RED PETACH: I was up in Chungking at the time - we had agreed to stay over those two weeks and in ten days, I got word that Pete had been shot down. At that time, they weren't sure whether they could find him or not, and oddly enough, after I came back to the States, I was reading the Wall Street Journal of a missing in action and I found myself hunting for him, for his name in that missing in action. I never realized that in all those years I was thinking maybe he - maybe they found him. Then when the squadron came back to the air base and Pete and Red Shambling didn't come back and this very unpopular guy, Ajax Baumler arrived on that airfield - that was one of the toughest things I've ever had to face. But the fellows were just - they were great. They just carried me around on a cushion, and Fox who was Pete's mechanic just took care of me and anything I wanted to do, any place I wanted to go, they were right here, and when I decided I was - since Pete wasn't there, I was going to go home, so I went home with Charlie Bond and Bob Neale. FRANK BORING: What was the - give us what it was like to leave. Was there a farewell party for you or anything like that? �RED PETACH: No, I just left. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of the last days, if you will, and how you actually got back to the States. RED PETACH: When we were disbanded on the 4th of July, groups started leaving, bits at a time. Josie went first, and that was hard, not to see her go, because I was very fond of her, and we had a good relationship. But to see the fellows going back home - I kind of envied them, but I understood why they were going. Just bits by bits they would just disappear. There were no farewells, no parties, no nothing. They just went off and of course, they thought we we're going to be in India, and when Pete wasn't there, then I thought I should just go home. We were able to fly into India to New Delhi, Bob Neale and Charlie Bond escorted me and when we got to New Delhi, I don't know whether it was in New Delhi or Karachi, but then we flew on to Karachi to try to find a way home rather than go by boat because I was pregnant. It must have been in New Delhi then - but anyway, Hep Arnold, very kindly gave me aone priority so I got through and went on an army transport plane with these two fellows. I was the only woman in the crowd, but it amused me, one of the incidents on the way home, we stopped at a place in Africa, one of the army posts in Africa, and they came out with this gorgeous looking chocolate cake and we were used to the food in China. They made beautiful looking things but it didn't taste right and we looked at each other and said, "Could this be really a good chocolate cake?" And it was, and we took hours, just eating that one little piece. It never tasted so good! Then we went from there to the Gold Coast, and we flew into Ascension Island and I was the first woman who ever flew into the Ascension Island with - and I couldn't understand what was going on, because when I went into the barracks to get food and get freshened up, all eyes were on me and I couldn't understand it, until finally somebody told me that I was the first woman to arrive in Ascension Island. That was a feat to go through, that Ascension Island too. We went �to South America and flew up from South America to Miami, and when we got into Miami, we went through customs office, they treated the two fellows like heroes, they were just great. When they came to me, I was like a camp follower, or shall I say, prostitute, and of course my ego. FRANK BORING: Speak. RED PETACH: When we had flown up to Chungking, then I knew I was pregnant, and that was part of the discussion as to whether we should stay or go home, and I know I'm healthy and, if you'll pardon the expression, built like a barn door so I wouldn't have any trouble with the delivery. I had known from my nursing experience I wouldn't, and as a nurse, I knew I wouldn't have any problems finding work, and Pete was going to fly for CNAC, so we were going to live in India. That's why when this came through and Chennault asked the fellows to stay over these two weeks, he just was going to go to India, and I said I would do whatever he wanted to do, it was up to him. But I didn't think that the fellows would leave Chennault holding the bag. He needed the fellows there, but it's up to you, whatever you decide, but it never occurred to me that they would gone on a bombing strafing mission. I thought he would be there just to protect the base. I knew he was a good flyer and I knew I didn't have any problems with that, but when they took those airplanes on a bombing and strafing mission for which they were not designed, we were just riding into trouble, but it never occurred to me that they would do that, and he decided to stay over those two weeks, and the next day they sent him out. He went out with the gang to the advance base and they were training these few army fellows that came in, and of course, I think the army held back deliberately not to give Chennault anything more possible. They wanted to disgrace him as much as possible. They wanted to blacken his name as much as they could. Anyway, he was on a mission with the army—this army fella, Pete and Red Shambling, the AVG was shot down and didn't come back and this very unpopular army fellow came back, Ajax Baumler. That was �one of the worst experiences I've had… that was when they landed on the field. I had heard - they had told me that Pete had been shot down, but in the back of my mind I had thought that he might be rescued because they didn't know what really had happened to the planes, to either one of them, and I don't think they know to this day what happened them. Well, then I was pregnant and there was no point in me staying over there and that was the time for me to go home. Fortunately, Charlie Bond and Bob Neale escorted me home and we flew into Asabdali [?] and then New Delhi, and Hap Arnold gave me, and I assume they gave the fellows there, priority to go back, and thank goodness, they did, because I didn't have to go by boat, being pregnant I thought it would be a little bit of a problem. When we flew into Karachi that day, I was sick. I have never been so sick. I couldn't get off that bed, I couldn't raise my head up. I was there for about two days and I don't know what those fellows ever did, they would come in and visit me but there was nothing they could do. They must have felt very helpless. After a while I came out of it all right. We flew on to Africa and had a wonderful experience in the – we went to this army base in Africa, we stopped to have lunch and they came out with this beautiful chocolate cake. We had been used to the pastries that we got when we were in China. They were beautiful looking things but they didn't taste right, and we all looked at each other and said, "That really tastes the way it looks," and it did. And we took hours to eat that little piece of cake. It was so good! And we flew from there onto the Gold Coast and then to Assam Valley, and flying into that Assam Valley was really exciting. When we got off the plane and went into the base, everybody was looking at us, and I didn't understand why. I didn't understand what was going on, and finally one of the fellows told me that I was the first woman to be there on that base. So we went from there to South America and then to Miami, and they treated Bob Neale and Charlie Bond as heroes, and I found out that how great the Americans thought they were. I was glad they finally found out. I knew they were good, they were just confirming what I already believed. I was glad that the American public realized what these fellows had done. Because �later on I heard what they were called and I had known that the army had talked to some of the pilots and tried to get the pilots to give them some bad news about Chennault, and they couldn't find it, they couldn't get it. But one of the things that did bother me as a person, when we landed in the Customs Office, they treated the pilots like heroes, they went through with a breeze. This Customs Officer treated me like I was a camp follower or a prostitute, and that really hurt. He took out everything from my bag, took it all out. We were limited, only allowed to have 35lbs. and I had saved six records that Pete and I particularly liked, and they took those records away because I might have subversive information in those records. I got them back months later, broken all of them, and I couldn't replace those records. And then, when they got to the bottom of my suitcase, or duffle bag is what it was, there were pieces of medal and he started asking me about the medals, then the dam broke. I had been under control up to that point. I was so hurt that anybody would think I was that kind of a woman, that's what bothered me. I just couldn't understand how anybody could think I could be that kind of a woman. It just broke the dam, I think I cried for several days and I don't know what those poor fellows did. They tried to cheer me up and I tried to control myself but it was difficult. FRANK BORING: Try to give us an idea of the treatment of the army towards you and the AVG. RED PETACH: The treatment of the army to the AVG I thought was just ridiculous. Stillwell really started it and then with Bissell, it was obvious that the army didn't like the General. I think from that experience that I had with the army in the Orient, I think we won the war in spite of the generals, unless you had somebody like General Chennault, a maverick like General Chennault. The fact that they tried to find all kinds of fault with Chennault, I thought was despicable. I just couldn't understand such egotistical treatment. They were jealous. �FRANK BORING: Could you say more about army and the AVG General. RED PETACH: I think that the army resented the General because he was a maverick. He didn't follow the book; he was like Mitchell. I think the ordinary brass, they don't like to have their ideas threatened and their positions threatened. I think they were jealous basically, that's my personal opinion. I don't understand why they would reflect the same thing on the AVG, other than the fact that it would indirectly give credit to Chennault, and they disliked Chennault so badly that they wouldn't even consider the AVG, and later on when they had pictures of the fellows who were killed over there, very good pictures of it, the United States didn't want it, didn't want those pictures, and they were given to the Chinese, the Chinese wanted them, the Chinese cared for them. That I could never understand. FRANK BORING: How about the treatment towards you specifically? Of course, you had it too, how do you feel about the treatment towards you? RED PETACH: The Army? As far as the army's treatment of me is concerned, I just - like a nonexistent, I didn't matter, I wasn't worth bothering with. It's all right, I didn't feel one way or the other. I certainly wasn't congratulated for doing anything. When I came back home, it was a very tough situation. I looked up a friend of mine and stayed with her for a while, but it was a long time before I got over that, that my own country would treat me so shabbily. It's something that's very hard to reconcile. I went home and I stayed with my brother to have my delivery of my child - the child I had was to be a girl - and since the General was so much involved in the story, she is named Joan Claire Petatch, the Claire after Claire Chennault, and from the day on when we had reunions, I had to take Joan, my daughter with me. If I didn't have her, the General would say, "Where is she?" So she went with me. The Tigers have been good, as always. FRANK BORING: That was going to be my next question. Talk. �RED PETACH: As soon as she was able, I went back to New Haven and taught Nursing Arts at school and raised my child, raised her myself. And then, when she was a little older, I realized that she should be with her family because she needed - if something happened to me, she would have nothing. So I went back to Harrisburg and worked in Harrisburg and lived with my brother until I found my own place and worked in Harrisburg and raised my daughter there. It was interesting that I when I went - I wanted to back into public health and go back into the slums and my father didn't approve. I wanted to work for the state and at that time the war was still going on and the state wouldn't take me because I had too much education, they were suspicious of a woman with a master's degree. I wanted to go with the Visiting Nurses Association but their salaries - I couldn't raise a child with that kind of a salary, so I went with the Tuberculosis Society and made a career of that. I ended up as an executive secretary of the Tuberculosis Society in those two counties. Then I went from there to - I was Executive Director of Pennsylvania Health Counsel, that's where I was when I met Fletcher. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 7 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her experience when Pete Petach didn't return from his last flight and her last days with the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6cd2cf72ebd6d9c0bc1c5b96d30aa20b.mp4 540ae952c8c2583ab1c37ae543a5900d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a21b7639c137a7968dff6a5fe683bb4.pdf cca39372551883fb89c8f074525ac095 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] RED PETACH: This is about the hospital in Kunming. The services in the Kunming hospital were good for that period. It was adequate, it was not super deluxe, but it was not real primitive. We had enough material that we could work with it. We always had a private room with our patient in the room and we put up a cot and then we'd rest there because we were on duty 24 hour, off 24 hours, but at least we had no problem with nursing equipment and the things that we needed to take care of them. FRANK BORING: Was it exclusively taking care of the AVG, or did you have any contact with the Chinese or Chinese doctors or nurses? RED PETACH: We nurses had no contact with the Chinese, we were exclusively AVG. The old man wanted us available for the boys, to take care of the fellows when they came in. I don't know about the doctors, sometimes they had – Rich might have at the front, but they did not come to the hospital at all. We had no contact with the Chinese. FRANK BORING: If you could tell us the story of RT - when he went up to get the airplanes from the Gold Coast. RED PETACH: Later on in the war they were able to get airplanes from the Gold Coast to replace the ones that were shot down, and the fellows would be sent over to ferry them back, and they had the colossal �story about RT when they went over to the Gold Coast, he flew into Cairo and RT always had two pictures on either tip, so he goes into this British bar and he had a handlebar moustache… FRANK BORING: I'm sorry, we've got to make sure you set up the whole… RED PETACH: There was this story about RT when he – it was Pee Green – when they were ferrying planes from the Gold Coast and brought them into Kunming, and there was a story about him – because he was ferrying a plane – he landed in Cairo and RT always carried a shooter on each hip, and he had a handlebar moustache, and he went into this bar…The fellows used to have to ferry the planes from the Gold Coast to Kunming to replace the ones that were destroyed, and then there's a great story about Pee Green and he always had a six shooter, one on each hip, and he had a handlebar moustache and he went into this bar in Cairo, a British bar, took out his six shooter, put one of the down on the deck and says, "Whiskey, me boy, whiskey", and all the monocles dropped. FRANK BORING: The Flying Tigers - when did you first start hearing about the Flying Tigers? RED PETACH: I don't know, I don't remember. FRANK BORING: This is after Pearl Harbor and after the initial battles and whatnot and thing were going on in Rangoon and – there was being replacements coming in – I should say, they would switch the fighting and everything, was there a change in morale, they were getting tired, they were getting…? RED PETACH: When they were in Kunming, there was a shift back and forth of the squadrons to Rangoon and back, the morale was good as long as they were active. When they weren't active, they got bored and they were champing at the bit, but that's normal for any person, any active person - they want to get involved, they want to be working. They're bored when they're not doing that. �FRANK BORING: There were reports of not just scrounging for equipment …going on? RED PETACH: I heard stories of black-marketeering and I know they were scrounging around for material. They did everything they could to get the material. They used hairpins, they used anything they could get their hands on. I don't know - I was not apprised of any - I was not there, it was just stories, rumors. Madam Chiang Kai-Shek came to a few formal occasions - when Madam Chiang Kai-Shek came to visit us, she came usually on only very formal occasions. I never had a chance to really talk with her. The only thing I knew about her was what I heard. I do know that she was very careful about keeping the nice Chinese girls away from the AVG, which I didn't appreciate, and she was very strict with the Chinese they say, using make-up and this sort of thing, which she did herself. But I had always admired her Madam Chiang Kai-Shek. I particularly admired him. He was very good. I admire Chiang Kai-Shek because of what he was doing, of what he was trying to do for China. He was a learned man, a very able man, very gentle in his appearance, very gentle in the way he spoke. He was just one who handled himself that you automatically respected the way that he conducted himself. I know there's been rumors about his - but I had never seen evidence that he was not respected - not a good gentleman. He was very good. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) RED PETACH: Well the morale missions that Stillwell designed for these fellows. It really upset the whole bunch because it was dangerous. They didn't want to do it because it was foolhardy, it wasn't for any definite purpose, and it created a big problem in that area, with the fellows, it created a lot of discontent. As far as the raids that Stillwell suggested - or the maneuvers that Stillwell suggested for the fellows during the war - he wanted them to fly very low. It was not only dangerous but the fellows didn't like it because it was �useless, there was no point in it. They didn't mind taking on seven Japs to one but why just - yourself out there like a fowl to be shot down, and it created a lot of discontent, particularly between the fellows and Chennault, because Chennault was in the hot seat, he was between the two of them. It created a problem. FRANK BORING: How about when you got married? RED PETACH: There was a kind of quiet understanding that we were not to marry any of the fellows. The General - no-one ever told us we couldn't get married but it was kind of one of those subtle things, you were out there to do a job and leave. Of course, we were there to do a job, and I had certainly no idea I was every going to get involved with the young fellows but Pete was persistent, and he was a good man. So we talked it over with Chennault and he gave us permission to - he said it was a good match, and he gave us permission to go ahead and get married. We were married in the Consulate - by a Consular. The night before, Chennault - we were in his apartment - he was entertaining us and we did the Indian wrestling - that was the night before when I ended up with a black eye at my wedding. Our honeymoon was travelling up the Burma Road, and then the next day we went by sampan on the lake at Kunming. That was our - we had one day off. It was beautiful - we went across the lake and went up the pagodas on the other side, and had a trip up there and we were ready to come home at dusk and one of the Chinese ran up to us and said, you've missed the bus, and he was on the way back to Kunming was - he had to find a way back – it was our boat. Pete said, "No, no sir, he was not going to come back. I said, "You can't do that, you just can't do that", so he came back with us. That was our honeymoon! FRANK BORING: Who was at the wedding? What was the wedding like? RED PETACH: Our wedding was a very, very simple one. The Consular was a Methodist minister and Major Gentry and Josie, Miss Stewart, �were there. It was just a very simple civil ceremony. It didn't amount to a great deal. FRANK BORING: What was the reaction to the - as you call them - the fellows, and what was the kind of response that you got from everybody? RED PETACH: I think some of the fellows were kind of bewildered. It's amused me since they wanted to know why I picked Pete. I really couldn't tell them. There were others there that were very attractive. Bob Little was a peach of a fellow. He was killed over there. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us about the…? RED PETACH: As far as the activity during the war, as the Japanese came up the Burma Road and they got closer and closer to Kunming, I never really felt threatened because I figured those fellows would take care of us, we'd be all right, and we were. FRANK BORING: …the kind of people that were coming over that were eventually going to eventually replace the AVG? RED PETACH: My whole feeling about the army coming in is, that they really gave General Chennault the short stick. What came in first were garbage cans and this sort of thing, they weren't really much help and my feeling was that they deliberately withheld sending people over there to ease the transition between the AVG and the army because they asked us to stay over those two weeks, and when Pete was asked whether he would stay on, I thought that he would be defending the base and that we'd be in Chungking. I knew he could take care of himself in the air, I wasn't concerned about that. It never occurred to me that they'd send him out on a bombing and strafing mission which is what they did. The next day they went out to the advanced post. FRANK BORING: Was this officer at this time…? �RED PETACH: When General Bissell came up and talked to the group, I heard the conversation and if anybody would stay after his conversation, I would have been amazed. He did a terrible job, he was antagonistic, egotistical. I was ready to walk out. I was seriously thinking about maybe I might join up, but later I was pregnant, but I know that Pete was not - nobody was impressed with Bissell. That's why they all left, very few of them stayed on, and they only stayed on those two weeks to help General Chennault because the army didn't come in and do what they should have done. There was a good story in a magazine talking about what the fellows did in those two weeks, and one of the things that wasn't mentioned is that two of them were killed, and that I think should have been. They stayed on just to help the General. They might have been here today if they had not done that. FRANK BORING: Let’s…… that story to us please. RED PETACH: When we were moved from Kunming to Chungking, again I was flown, I wanted to ride, and Mun Chen was the pilot and at that airfield in Kunming - in Chunking – he had to turn the ship, he couldn't go in straight, he had to turn his wings, so he could get into this narrow pass and land. It was a real tricky maneuver to do it on account of the plane, and Pete - that was after we were married - and Pete was on the ground in Kunming - in Chungking, waiting for me. He was chewing his nails and biting his teeth and everything and when I landed he said, "I'm so glad you're down here and landed safely." I said, "That's what I go through every day with you," and he had nothing to say. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us about the…? RED PETACH: Actually Pete was going to go home, because most of them were going home, and I said, "I'll do whatever you want because we had already - we weren't going home, we were going to go to India, and he was going to fly for CNAC out of India, and of course, I'm going to help him, I was pregnant at the time and I knew I wouldn't �have any trouble, so I said, "I'll do what you want to do. We'll go to India - I'll go to India with you if you want, but I don’t think you fellows are going to walk and leave Chennault with the bag holding the bag.” And of course, they didn't. But I must say, it didn't occur to me - I thought they were to defend the base and not go on - he led the flight with this army fellow that was so unpopular, and he and Red Shambling were shot down, and never came back, and the fella, Ajax Baumler - that was one of the hardest moments of my life, when that man landed on that airfield in Chungking and he came back and Pete didn't. That one was very hard to take. FRANK BORING: I realize this is very difficult…that day? RED PETACH: As far as I personally was concerned, when the planes came back that day, the fellows were just great. Fox, Pete's mechanic was just - they couldn't have been better, they couldn't have been nicer. Anything I wanted, they would tote me anywhere. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 6 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks discusses getting married to John "Pete" Petach while in the AVG and how he stayed on to work the additional two weeks for General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91cf005c0e7f87046d9be44cdce0efc6.mp4 d2b247a1d35808b8dda36f46b346723b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2067259ecbd3ff4ca7cdce3c25e799c9.pdf 0410e2b7fcac96df9c0f8004d65e4850 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] RED PETACH: When we were in Toungoo, and the fellows were training on the planes, and a lot of those fellows had not had experience in that style of plane, and of course, we did have accidents, and that was one of things that, later when I would go to the movies, I would have to get up and walk out, because you'd hear the whine of the plane and you knew what was happening, and it just wrenched you, I couldn't take it. I think even to this day, when there's a war film on, and I hear the whine of that plan, I shiver, because I know what the results are. Down there usually, and this was at times through the whole year, it was either all or nothing generally, and when we got up to Kunming it was another story. These fellows, they worked very hard and Chennault was very good to them. I think part of the discontent at the early period was because wanted action, and once they started to get some action, they were more content. They could see the purpose of it better. FRANK BORING: Tell us about what happened at Pearl Harbor. RED PETACH: When we heard over the radio that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor, I was in kind of shock, because I never expected, I didn't really expect war. However, I knew that the fellows, particularly the navy boys, and Pete, had been on the ranger, and they had been stopping German U-Boats in the Atlantic, so that you knew war was there, but you're never ready for it. And of course, there we �were, caught in Burma with no protection at all, except they did have a warning that the British weren't all that good in their execution of their responsibilities. FRANK BORING: What was the immediate reaction around you by the group use of – before there was a certain morale discontent because of the Pearl Harbor…? RED PETACH: When we heard about Pearl Harbor, of course there was a lot of excitement, then we all knew there would be action, and I think the fellows were champing at the bit, dying to use the knowledge that Chennault had given them, so they could prove, "We'll take 'em." FRANK BORING: Now at this point – what did he order you to do at this point? RED PETACH: Very shortly after the Japanese came over and didn't bomb us and we dragged our patients out in the ditches… FRANK BORING: What was your impression ………you were worn out taking them into the ditches and all that and the relief that you weren't actually bombed, and when. RED PETACH: When war was declared, we knew we were sitting ducks because we didn't have any protection, and when the Japanese bombers flew over us, we had warning that they were coming, so we took all of the patients out that we could and went to ditches. They could have just bombed us out of existence, we were just doing the best we could, just kind of there, just hoping. And when they flew over and didn't, what a big relief. So very shortly after that, we were all were shipped up to Kunming. I wanted to go up the Burma Road but Chennault didn't give permission for me to go, so they flew us up. We flew up to Kunming, and we were in conditions a little bit better than Toungoo. We were in temporary shelters, something like the CCC camps that we had in the United States. There wasn't any heat. I got a room to myself this time, in Toungoo, Josie and I were together, this time she had a room and I �had a room. The heat we got from Chinese braziers, we'd have that in our room. It was a wooden structure instead of a thatched roof. We didn't have ants and rats, so we didn't have that to contend with, but as far as comfort is concerned, or luxury was concerned, that was nil. But while we were up there, the Japanese flew over that was before the fellows got up there - the Japanese bombers flew over us. They had a Jing bow, a Chinese warning there. The first time when we went out with the Chinese, and it was just fascinating to see those Chinese streaming, just like ants, streaming out of the city, long long lines of those people streaming out to go to the graveyard, and they'd have kind of a picnic out there, and stayed out their until the balloons went up and it was all clear. They bombed in town and we weren't anywhere near town, we were in the outskirts of town, so we weren't affected. So the next time when the Japanese were over, we didn't go with the Chinese, we just stayed there and looked up there, up at the sky, and watched the Japanese bombers flying over. I thought afterwards, that was kind of silly but – then of course when the fellows came up, they chased them away and we never had any problems since, they just took care of it. FRANK BORING: Did you… RED PETACH: We went into Kunming very irregularly, once in a while to shop. We saw some of the devastation in Kunming, some of the buildings, but it was never leveled away like you see some of things - some cities that you see in the movies particularly. There were pockets of where the bombs hit, other than that there wasn't overwhelming devastation - there were some areas where you saw it. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to this destruction, this wholesale wanton destruction by the Japanese? RED PETACH: When we'd go into Kunming, fortunately I suppose in many ways, Kunming didn't have the architectural structures that you see in �Peking or in Canton, it was much more primitive. They had solid buildings but they weren't the colorful, beautiful architectural structures that you saw in other places, so you didn't feel the devastation as that acute. Of course, they had walls around the city, it was a typical Chinese city, but no really elaborate buildings were there. Some of the better structures were the embassies and as far as I know, they weren't touched, they didn't bomb them. FRANK BORING: When you had been to China before, you had made friends with some of the Chinese people and you had actually interacted with Chinese people, was that also true of the time you were there in Kunming? RED PETACH: When I was in Kunming, we didn't really have much opportunity to interact with the local Chinese. I did find out people that I knew in Ling Lung that were out there, and some of the professors that were at Kunming University and I did go to see them, and I know that I was very unhappy that this one Chinese woman that I liked particularly was very far, and since I didn't have any transportation, it was difficult for me to get there, and I didn't feel at liberty in a situation to go for my own pleasure, but I was very upset when I saw what happened to the Chinese that I had known in Kunming - then were in Chungking – in the universities. Their salaries were practically nothing, the coolies were making more money than they were. They were almost starving, they really needed food, they needed clothing. The universities were the places that were bombed. They were really shorthanded. It made my heart ache to see these people that I saw in such good surroundings in Canton, being so miserable. They were like refugees, there's where I saw reverse economics, the laborer was getting much more salary because they were needed, than the professors. That was very disturbing to me. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) �RED PETACH: In regard to the bombing of Kunming, it wasn't a military target and - well it's war, and you know terrible things happen in war - it's so useless but you know what the enemy's going to do, they're going to hurt as much as they can, and this was an area where they had war lord and in that area, we met one of them particularly, and they had money. If the Japanese can devastate that area, that was less money that could be available to the Chinese to fight them, but that's war. FRANK BORING: …the AVG? RED PETACH: When we were in Kunming and as I said before, when I met these fellows, I just thought they were so young, and I really wasn't interested in them in any way. When they went down to Rangoon and fought in Rangoon, when they came back, they had aged ten years. If I had seen that in a film, I wouldn't have believed it, I would have thought it was an exaggeration on the director's part. They were men when they came back, they just turned into men overnight, and when the fellows were stationed in Kunming and were sent out on patrols, you'd count the planes as they went out, you'd count them when they came back and if one was missing, your heart just churned, you just didn't know …And there happened to be four Pete's in the outfit, so every time there was a Pete, and there were a couple of them shot down, it was difficult. That's why it got me during the daily storm, the gals sitting at home and how horrible it was sitting at home. You sit out there and watch them - count the planes, count them coming…it’s tough. And as far as our living up there was concerned, you lived each day at a time, you didn't think in terms of the future, you just enjoyed what you had, your relationships with the people, everything was on a 24 hour basis. You just didn't think of anything else, but I know that when I sent letters home, I had a feeling inside of me, that he'd never come back. After the first raid, the whole morale changed. They were in there fighting together, battling together, the whole atmosphere changed and the Chinese were very grateful. They were glad to see them there any way, not �to be bothered with the bombs again, they were very gracious, and Generalissimo was very kind, when he came to see us. I admired Generalissimo, he handled himself very well and he talked to us, and I can remember Mrs. Anna Chennault – not Anna ChennaultChiang Kai-Shek - Mrs. Chiang coming to the celebration and telling the boys they were angels with or without wings. It was good, and it was nice when Mr. Kong, the financier had a party for the fellows, and invited some of the nice Chinese girls to be there. It gave the fellows a good break. That was the one thing they didn't have enough of. FRANK BORING: What was your… RED PETACH: As far as my reaction to the bombing was concerned, of course I always knew they were good and they just confronted it. They were aces high with me. There's just nothing that could compare with them, and I think the accolades should also go to the mechanics, the ground crew that kept those planes in shape. Pete Fox who was Pete's ground crew, he kept him alive. Those mechanics kept them alive because they kept those planes going and kept them in good shape for the fellows, and they knew it, and they did a good job, and they would beg, borrow, and put in all kinds of parts. They'd cannibalize some planes so they could make them work, make them fly, get them to fly. It was a great job they did. I didn't any more verification that they were great, I knew they were great before then. FRANK BORING: What was the life like during that period? RED PETACH: Our daily routine, our medical daily routine really didn't vary that much because again, it was usually all or nothing, and what we do, we had a few seriously ill patients, and then Josie and I would go down to the hospital in the city, and it would be 24 hours on and 24 hours off. Of course, the main interest was the fellows shifting to Rangoon, and the crews going back and forth and replacing each other. We were always very anxious keeping track of what was �happening to them down there in Rangoon and what's happening to them as they push back. They were pushed back up further and further into Kunming. That was really the subject - that was our main concern. FRANK BORING: You took very good care of them, are there any of them when they recuperating, you became good friend with, or any incidents that happened during that period of time? RED PETACH: As far as my experience in taking care of some of the fellows, there was nothing special because, I loved them all , I was fond of them all, and I there wasn't any particular specialty. We had one not a good actor in the outfit - and of course some of the things we had to take care of, something like black eyes – there were some bad characters in the AVG, and one of them known for his braggadocio and his fighting, was Boyington, and Peret – the two of them would get involved every so often so when of our jobs was taking care of black eyes, and Pat Boyington was generally in trouble most of the time, because he was using liquor too much, but what was really interesting was Peret was always being reprimanded for his fighting ability and for getting into fights and this Ajax Baumler was – one of the army fellows that came in, that the army sent in, to get some experience from the AVG and he was a big braggadocio, and he got into a fight with Peret, and of course Ajax Baumler - none of the fellows liked him and Ajax came in with the worst pair of black eyes I have ever seen. That was one pair of black eyes I was glad to take care of and he deserved every bit of it. Peret said, "It was the first time I got a gold star for being a bad boy." He really worked him over. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 5 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks discusses the news of Pearl Harbor and the devastation the AVG witnessed in Kunming, in addition to their medical daily routine during those days. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6f0a969d1c91bf853e3fce62361df22.mp4 5b58944334dbe8ea45b261be2c98d4ce https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d166ada625f837d8210ff04ad133eca.pdf 9a06a0f29dea17372bef242c3dbc7122 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] RED PETACH: As far as the medical situation was concerned in Toungoo, the environment was very rudimentary as far as the equipment and everything was concerned and the skill of the physicians, it was good. Sam Prevo was in orthopedics, Doc Rich was in general and further along he was out at the front most of the time. And of course, Major Gentry was very well qualified. We didn't have much of a problem as far as medicine and supplies and this sort of thing was concerned. As far as nursing was concerned, I didn't begin to use my nursing experience and I know in the early days, I kept thinking, if I don't use my nursing experience, I'm going to have to take a refresher course when I go back because I've lost it, I've lost a lot. Because other than the few fevers, the fellows were healthy and the illnesses that you would find in the clinic, the male nurses took care of. We didn't get involved in that at all. FRANK BORING: What about the accidents that occurred? RED PETACH: This stands for most of the year. It was usually all or nothing. We had a few broken legs and that was one of the things when war was declared. When war was declared and the Japanese flew over us, we had no air shelters, no nothing. We dragged those people out in the ditch, and I can remember hauling one of the fellows with a broken leg, and getting him out, and of course, the Japanese have �since said that if they knew what was there they would have bombed us, and they could have very easily. FRANK BORING: Before we move on from this particular point, when you… RED PETACH: Shortly after we were there, there was quite a bit of discomfort, annoyance. FRANK BORING: I'm sorry, shortly after you arrived in Toungoo. RED PETACH: Shortly after we arrived in Toungoo, the first couple of weeks were all right. Of course, that other contingent had already been there, and there were some still to come. There was a lot of discontent because they were uncomfortable with the situation, the environment was certainly not good. These fellows had come from a better environment, and they were living in primitive conditions almost, and there was a lot of discussion about people that are not going to stick it out. But after they started working together, and particularly after they saw what Chennault had to offer, it began to be cohesive. But it really took a hold after war was declared when they went up and they started shooting down the Japanese, they the unit began to really develop. FRANK BORING: At this time you… RED PETACH: When we were in Toungoo, one of our major entertainment was going down to Rangoon to the Silver Grill. This is where my romance took place with Pete, and I had a lot of great times, with dancing and…The British were very formal, the fellows weren't very comfortable with that, they liked it – when they were a little more informal – they did it – but they were very kind about having entertainment for us, and I remember one time in particular they had a big dance. The nurses as far as the British were concerned were second class citizens, they were not "upper class", and when we were dancing, the AVG boys were dancing with Josie and I and having a great time. Our contacts with the British, fortunately were �limited. When we went to the Silver Grill in Rangoon, our contacts mainly were with ourselves, we were enjoying ourselves and the British stood off and were usually aghast at what these foolish Americans were doing. At the one reception, I know that the British considered the nurses second class citizens and when we were at the dance, when we danced the AVG boys were dancing with Josie and myself and having a wonderful time and these fellows were sitting there and saying, "Why can't I do this?" You could see it in their eyes, they wanted to dance so badly, and so General Chennault danced first with Josie, then he danced with me. That opened the door, the British came and danced with us with us then, so that let the British know that we were equals, that we deserved the same treatment. And when they'd come on the base, they were colossal snobs, and I can remember this one General, one of the officers, when he was not talking to General Chennault but talking with the others, he was kind of looking down his nose at General Chennault, "Well, he doesn't begin to compare…", these Americans are just not... I came away with a decided dislike for the British, but I understand that's the colonial British, not the island itself. FRANK BORING: If you could, let's talk about the early days—tell us what you can about that, the earlier days on that. RED PETACH: For our entertainment we would go to the Silver Grill, and of course, Pete had been inroads all this time, it had started on the boat. He was always there. I enjoyed his company, I wasn't all that enamored of getting serious, but it was fun. He was a very good dancer and I had a good time with him. We didn't play our music so much down in Rangoon because of the environment, the mosquitoes and everything else, it was just so crude, but we did enjoy each other's company. We would bike a lot together and dance at the Silver Grill. The Silver Grill is where the romance took place so the Silver Grill has a special meaning for me and that's where all of it began to develop. Really it was much more when we got to Kunming that I saw him more. When we were in �Toungoo, he usually chose Miss Stuart as his companion so I didn't see that much of him in Toungoo. When we got up into Kunming, I saw a little more of him than usual, but I never saw that much of him. I was very fond of him and had a great respect for him. He would invite us occasionally to his apartment for dinner and I can remember one time in particular when we had a very sick patient in the hospital in Kunming where we used the hospital in town because we didn't have any on the base. We were 24 hours on, 24 hours off, and I told Major Gentry – the Major had invited me to dinner that night and I told him I couldn't come because I was on duty and Major Gentry said, "You're going." There wasn't any question, and again, not familiar with the army routine, I wasn't aware of it. But the General was a practical joker and he was very flexible, he would stand on top of the steps and reach down to put his hands on the lower step, and he do it so difficultly, it would be so hard, and he'd take a bet, "Can I reach the bottom step?" and of course, everybody would fall for it, and he could, and after he got his money, he'd reach over and show how his foot would stay flat on the floor. Another time, I guess this was in Toungoo when Pete and I were going together, we were at one of the houses and he liked to play cribbage, and I played cribbage, so he was the champion cribbage player in China, and I was playing with him this time, and he was standing behind me, and of course anybody who knows the cribbage game, it's all addition, and he was standing behind me, adding for me, and I was beating the General, and the General said, "Get that boy out of the way there", and Pete naturally left, and of course, I lost, I didn't add quickly enough. But I think, if you want to go into one of the interesting things that happened, the day before we were married, we were invited to his apartment and again, the General was great on games and things, and we were playing Indian wrestling, and if anyone is familiar with Indian wrestling, you put your leg up against – you know and push and pull – and the General gave me a yank, I flew across the room, hit my arm on the corner of the table and was married with a black eye – it was my favorite story. Another time when a D14 came through, all the fellows were talking about it, so I wanted to �go see it, and I drove down to the field, and I was at the lower end of the steps, and I'd gone up to the tower to look, and I started down and Chennault was waiting at the bottom of the steps and he looked at me and said, "Red, we'll see you any place, won't we?" That's all I heard, he never scolded me for being there, and I wasn't really supposed to be there. He was very generous with his discipline. To socialize, when the General wanted to relax, usually he would go to the home of Olga Greenlaw and play poker. Usually either Josie or I would accompany him. I'd get the drinks for him and sit by him while he played poker. He was an excellent poker player and this was his way of relaxation. It was fun, I enjoyed being with him. FRANK BORING: What were your impressions of Harvey and Olga Greenlaw? RED PETACH: Olga and Harvey Greenlaw, I knew casually, not very well. I'd visited their home, they were always gracious and very warm. I was not impressed with her intelligence, but they were good company, they were nice. FRANK BORING: There have been a lot of comments by some of the guys that they really didn't understand what it was Harvey did for the AVG. Do you have any comments about his role in the AVG? What he did do? RED PETACH: As far as Harvey's role in the AVG, I always thought it was like an appendage. He did errands when they were needed, and Olga was just a hostess for the fellows when they came in, and it was good for the fellows, they needed that kind of entertainment. But Harvey was usually working with, as far as I know, with Steve Carney when they had messages and things concerning the Burma Road. FRANK BORING: What can you tell us about Steve Carney? �RED PETACH: As far as Steve Carney is concerned, I really didn't know him very well. I didn't have much contact with him. All I knew about him was what I heard from the fellows. FRANK BORING: We'd like comments on him because there really isn't that much available on him, and people talk about a lot. RED PETACH: As far as Harvey was concerned, I never thought he was very smart. I always thought he was kind of a buffoon, and he was just kind of hanging around doing errands and didn't have thus much responsibility. As far as Olga was concerned, I always thought she was kind of flighty, a flighty woman that liked to attract men. There were a lot of stories about relationships with some of the fellows. I don't know, some of them may be true, but I don't think there were very many - if there were many – there weren't very many involved, what the truth would be, I don't know, I haven't any idea. I know there were a lot of innuendos, but I never rely on those, because Olga was the kind of a woman who liked to attract men, and I understood it that way. As far as the treatment that the fellows gave me, it was excellent. I was always treated like a lady, as I said, I was kind of carried round on a pillow. It really prejudiced me for the rest of my life because nobody for a long, long time, nobody could compare with the Flying Tigers, they treated me very well, for the most part. There were just one or two that thought we were out there to entertain them but for the most part, the fellows were just great. FRANK BORING: Without naming names and whatever way you want to put it, I would be very interested in hearing that. RED PETACH: As far as my relationships with the Keller's were concerned, I should say, Josie's and mine but Josie should probably speak for herself. Two gals out there with 300 men – some of the fellows thought we were there just to entertain them. I feel the General wanted the nurses there because he wanted American nurses so the boys would feel more at home, more comfortable. There was �something of home there, and I think that was more important to him than actually nursing the fellows, and this is what we tried to do. We tried, at least I did, they were like brothers to me, they were like my brothers and I grew up with three brothers. The fact is, I spent my life mostly with men, so I understood, I felt very close to men. A couple of them made passes and I made it very clear and decisive that… that I wouldn't tolerate, that I wasn't interested in. When we were in Toungoo and Pete was courting me at the time – when he was on a flight, he would come over and buzz our unit, and of course, some of the fellows caught on to this so that they started buzzing the unit, and so Pete, to make sure that I knew that he was the one that was doing it, would buzz the unit and wiggle his tail, so that's the way I always knew it was Pete. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 4 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her first impressions of the medical situation in Toungoo and the early days working as a nurse for the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/977b3d1a8a9270e336b728b65b36ebd1.mp4 b641cda8684f8a996a34c6c1067430f3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95143e7375a903430a3844c1eedb1fed.pdf 8101c7a2cbd1725f5b8d36dd938da9aa PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] RED PETACH: When Major Gentry called me, I was working in the slums of Minneapolis, and my father who was a physician would give anything to get me out of there, a person with a master’s degree in the slums was ridiculous, and as far as the rest of my family was concerned, I had been to China before so thought I would probably – it didn't mean anything to them. I had disrupted the family relationships by being an exchange student in the first place. They always told me what to do beforehand, and they weren't very happy with me after I came back because they couldn't tell me anything. I had grown up by then and I was in command of myself. FRANK BORING: What was it that you actually told them you were supposed to be doing there? RED PETACH: When I talked to my family, and I told them as much as I could from what Major Gentry had told me, that there was an outfit that was going to protect the Burma Road, and I can remember at the time being kind of self-satisfied because my friends were married to men who were being drafted, and I said, "Well, I'm going to escape that, I don't need to worry about that, I'll be away and I won't be involved". But it turned out differently. FRANK BORING: What was the first step? Where did you go first? Where did you meet up? Where did you first sign up? What was the first step? �RED PETACH: When I decided to go, of course, I came back home and did as much as I could by way of getting clothes, packing and that sort of thing. I didn't have any contact with anybody until I got to San Francisco, and then I met them there at the hotel, they were all strangers when we met together at San Francisco. FRANK BORING: If you could describe to us why you wanted to go to China, something along that line. RED PETACH: When my family asked me about the salary and the money that I was going to get I said, "I really didn't pay much attention to it, because it didn't mean anything to me. I don't even remember to this day really what we received by way of – it wasn't any great deal I'm sure of that. But the money wasn't important, I wanted to go back to China, and that's all that was important. FRANK BORING: There were guys from all over the country there in San Francisco. What was that like, the first time you walked in, what was that like? RED PETACH: When I walked into the hotel in San Francisco, I think one of the first ones I met was Major Gentry. I liked Major Gentry, he was very nice, very kind, very gentlemanly, very gentle. Then Josie, Miss Stewart, I liked her right away. We established a good relationship right away. The fellows – I don't know why I thought I was so sophisticated and so much older, but I felt that they weren't, if you'll pardon the expression, dry behind the ears yet, and I wasn't the least bit interested in them. I thought they were young, aggressive, nice looking but kind of, not arrogant but swashbuckling, this kind of thing, some of them, not all of them. FRANK BORING: So it sounds like you saw R.T. Smith you saw right away. RED PETACH: I don't think so. �FRANK BORING: Okay, so she didn't really know what she was getting into. Did you talk about your experience? RED PETACH: When I met Josie, we call her Josie now, I referred to her as Miss Stewart for a long time, she was always the senior rank. In those days, I thought she was terribly much older than I, so I looked at her, not quite as a parent, but as a very senior citizen, so I respected her. I didn't have the camaraderie that I would have with someone my own age, and I looked up to her as the one who knew all the answers. Of course she knew Major Gentry before, I think she was Major Gentry's classmate in college, so that what contacts I had it was generally through Miss Stewart to the Major. However, I had a good relationship with him. FRANK BORING: What were some of the people who stuck out that you met during that period of time – that perhaps stuck out more than others? Were they the ones that you eventually became good friends with later on or were there any ones in particular? RED PETACH: On the boat going out, that's all, not there. It was interesting to me, I did not really get to know the fellas very well. As I said, when they did put us in the boat and we were up in the nursery, we were always flagged by the medics, so we didn't get a chance to talk to anybody. We knew the medics, we knew Gentry and Gentry, Prevo, Sam Prevo and Doc Rich well, but not the other fellas who were bold enough to come up in the nursery, we got to know them, but it was interesting to me the aura around the crowd because we knew their passports were false. Now ours were current, we were nurses and doctors but some of the pilots were bond salesmen and other things. Now Pete, the boy I eventually married, was a bond salesman, and when we went over, they were very careful about at night time, the shades were all drawn and there were no lights around and they were being very quiet, no radios or anything like that, and we were convoyed – we picked up a convoy in Hawaii and they convoyed us across, I don't remember where they dropped �us off, but it must have been either in Singapore or, around in there. FRANK BORING: Was there a drop off in any of the other…? RED PETACH: We stopped off at Singapore, but we weren't allowed to go (inaudible). I always felt sorry for the fellas on board because they were going crazy being on that boat all that length of time. Some of them were terribly sick. Some of the interesting things that happened on board – they got shots while we were there, and, of course, we helped Major Gentry give them the shots, and the thing that amazed me, these great burly men fainted way down on the deck. I just couldn't understand how a strong-hearted man could react so strangely to just a little old shot, but I learned the experience. When we got to Singapore, there were a few of them went aboard, most of us weren't allowed to go aboard. But when we landed in Rangoon, they wouldn't allow us to go aboard. And those fellows that had been on board that boat all that length of time were frustrated, and to my amazement, when we arrived at Rangoon, they wouldn't allow us to go ashore. These fellows had been on that boat for so long and were so frustrated, and to my amazement, everything that was portable on that ship went overboard. They picked up chairs, they picked up everything. There wasn't anything on that ship that wasn't attached down that was still on that ship. I don't know whether the Captain was sorry that he didn't let them go on shore. Going back to some of the experiences on the deck, we had some good dance records and we used to dance up on the deck and every so often the Captain would have to call us and tell us to turn down the music and turn it off. Doc Rich and I used to dance a lot on board deck and I said, "If you want an interesting experience, try to dance on board deck." When you put your foot down, you don't know whether the deck's going to meet you or whether it's way down below. But we used to play deck tennis – I was not too bad at deck tennis, I'd take the fellows on at deck tennis, and then – someone had classical music and that's where I really began to know my husband, my future �husband. Pete would come and we listened to it, but he was a good dancer, and we'd play deck tennis together and we really got acquainted over Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto. We were arguing about whether it was the piano that made it or the symphony orchestra, and to this day I don't know remember which side I took. That was when we got into a good discussion. FRANK BORING: Are there any of these guys that stuck out during that period of time? RED PETACH: Not too many of them because they might have come back but I don't remember. I know some of them have said afterwards that they did, I didn't recall if they did. FRANK BORING: First impression – first time you met him. RED PETACH: I don't remember really the first time I met Pete, but he was a good-looking gentleman, and I said, he was a good dancer, and he liked classical music and so did I, and he had a wonderful bass voice. I was impressed with him because he was so gentle and so understanding, so sensitive, which for a young man of his age, I thought was unusual. Most men aren't that sensitive to how a woman feels. FRANK BORING: How did the men treat you? What was the relationship between, not just the pilots but the ground crew and the people that you dealt with? How did they treat you? RED PETACH: My whole experience over there – there just wasn't a better outfit than those fellows. Before the war began, I thought they were a lot of fun to be around and they treated me very well. The fact is, I think they all really carried me around in a pillow. They were really very nice, and I thought they were great before I got back home and when I heard all those glorious things about them, it just verified what I'd said all along. �FRANK BORING: When you arrived in Rangoon, what did you expect? RED PETACH: My first impression of Rangoon in Burma at that time was that it was very similar to the rest of the Orient. They have a different culture, but it's all similar. The general social graces and this sort of thing were similar to the Chinese, and of course, I was much more familiar with the Chinese than I was any other Oriental but there wasn't that much difference except the way they dressed, and this sort of thing, and their language. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) RED PETACH: When we arrived in Rangoon it was late in the afternoon, early evening, and so they wouldn't let the men go ashore because they didn't want them running around Rangoon, and the men were just livid, they were upset, they'd been there for so long they wanted to get off, and they Captain paid for it. Not a thing was left on board that ship. The next day we went ashore and started up to our headquarters in Toungoo. FRANK BORING: …basically the same thing, just add in the frustration… RED PETACH: When we arrived in Rangoon, it was late in the afternoon, or early evening, and of course, the authorities didn't want the men running around Rangoon at night so they wouldn't let them go ashore, so the fellows were pent up, they'd been there for too long, and to my amazement, everything that was portable went overboard. They just picked everything up and threw it overboard. I just stood there and shook my head at what was going on. The Captain was probably very sorry he didn't let those fellow have their time in town. The next day we went into Rangoon then on to Toungoo. We took the train up to Rangoon and when we arrived at the base, it wasn't exactly what I expected because we were ushered into thatched roofed houses, the women's quarters were on one end and the male quarter was the other and in the middle was the clinic and whatever they used as the hospital. It was very rugged to say the �least, it was not exactly what I had experienced. We slept on beds with mosquito covering the beds and to keep the ants from crawling up we had little pans of water stapled on the beds so that they wouldn't come up the poles. Many of the times at night we were glad we had those mosquito nettings because the rats would run around the ceilings and they'd fall down on your neck, and if you hadn't had the net there, you'd have had a rat in bed with you; it was not very comfortable. And the other thing that we had to learn to live with, it was those days before they had the plastic buttons, they were bone buttons, and the rats would get in the drawers and eat up all the buttons, we wouldn't have any buttons on our clothes when we left. And in the rainy season it was wet and mildew, and when we went for lunch it was like fighting the bugs before you got to the food, and until they got the screens…In the dry season it was lovely. The moon, the one thing I remember was the brilliant moon, you could read a paper the moon was so bright. It was just beautiful. Again we used to do a lot of biking down there, it was one way we could get around. FRANK BORING: RED PETACH: FRANK BORING: The first weeks or so, when it was basically just the routine – because we have it from the pilot's point of view and the training and all that – but from yours, what were you and the medical staff doing? When we started the routine – really we didn't have much of a routine – and that what was the thing that I used to write home and say, "I hope I don't forget everything because I hope I will be able to do nursing when I get back home." Because there wasn't any hospital, it was a clinic and Major Gentry did an awful lot of tonsillectomies that day, the first couple of months we used to help him with it. The major problem was malaria and dengue fever, and then the fellows were really sick and I was sorry that they were ill but that did keep me in practice and gave me permission to do some nursing which – that's what I went for. What is dengue fever? �RED PETACH: Dengue fever is something like malaria, it's very much like malaria, the symptoms are very much like malaria, only they get really very, very sick. It's chills and high fever and sweats, it's miserable while they're going through it. It's not fatal, but it's a miserable, miserable illness. But we had – most of our airmen at Tongue, as I remember – that's when I got to nurse Chennault a little bit there. He usually liked a ten minute company when he went out in the evening, and of course, he was a very good poker player, and he was a very good cribbage player. He usually had Josie, Josie would go, would be his accomplice. And that was the time when Pete was getting really – what'll I say – the courtship was beginning to start, and I can remember one night when I was all dressed to go out dancing and Pete was going to pick me up, and Pete disappeared, and Chennault came in, and of course, I had never been in the army, and I didn't know what the army philosophy was, and I was to escort Chennault that night, and that irritated me. I felt I should have been consulted the next I found out that one doesn't do that when one's in the army, but I enjoyed his company. He had a good sense of humor and I enjoyed it. We used to go a lot of times to Olga Greenlaw's house. That would be in the evening when the General wanted to relax. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 3 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her inspiration for wanting to go to China with the AVG and their journey from San Francisco to Rangoon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2d7d4599dcf5ab87649c27288e145078.mp4 b0f1bc7efd802a4c570894ab76db32d8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/51594425f39c864fa542cfd7323e2b99.pdf ecc3cc3b4b49f2e22a6ae6b2c0fd8134 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] RED PETACH: One of the interesting experiences I had thinking of what I knew about China from what I had read, when I went into Japan, their culture was so different. You sat on the floor and that sort of thing, and I had to get used to that, I'll never forget, they separated the men from the boys, and then we wanted to know where the men were, and a little girl took us down the hall and we could go in a peep-hole and see. From Japan we went through Manchuria by train and at that time, there were bandits that would raid the trains, so all the windows of the train were down, closed down at night so no light could come out, and I can remember seeing these Chinese men with their long fingernails and I thought of those Fu Man Chu magazines, and I was a little apprehensive. Then we went to Peking and saw the beautiful architecture. Of course, the colors are similar to Japan's, Japan is very similar, real bright colors, beautiful blues, beautiful greens, beautiful golds, and the forbidden city was just one mass of gold, and the carvings of those marvelous, marvelous steps, marble steps, they were carved with lions and dragons on them. It was very, very impressive. We didn't see that much of Peking when we went, but on the way over, we came on down to Shanghai and into Hong Kong, and into our dormitories there at the campus. Our mode of transportation in those days was a bicycle, and I used to ride all over the campus. When we'd go to parties or anything, I'd stash my skirt over my arm and off we'd go. Then we had rickshaws, but airplanes were �not even considered, that was out of the ordinary. When we went up through the interior, between semesters, we went up through the interior. There were four of us, two girls and two boys again, and we stayed at Chinese inns. The way we got our heat was through the brazier on the floor and we had to put our feet – we'd always take our coats and let the heat come up inside so we could be sure to get warm. That portion of it was quite. In the villages the sanitation was non-existent. We knew enough Chinese to get our dinner and get transportation. We went up into Hangchow, then we went into Peking, and that was the time I really toured Peking, and we saw the summer palace and the beautiful paintings on the – the pathways were covered with tile and on the top of them they had beautiful paintings, very lovely, and Chiang Kai-Shek had them all repaired. It was a beautiful place, a lovely place to go into. FRANK BORING: What was the reaction of the Chinese people to your red hair? RED PETACH: The reaction of the Chinese people to this very tall, red-haired, blue eyed, blonde, white skin – it was almost true of any exchange student, we didn't need to worry about whether we could find somebody, because we were always encircled by Chinese. They had never seen anything like this, and of course, especially we got into the interior, and some of the Chinese kind of cringe when I say this but the peasants used to say, pointing the finger of fun, "Wilo fung wilo, fung wilo", which meant, "foreign devil". But I was a real shark, red hair, blue eyes and white skin. As I said, we never needed to worry about not finding anybody of our exchange students, when you saw our crowd, one of us was in the middle. FRANK BORING: When you actually had to return back to the United States after your… RED PETACH: I was so enamored of the Chinese, I had always been but after that trip, with the architecture and the experience and the contacts with these professors, these gentle scholars, they really were men of learning, I was just overwhelmed, and of course, it was the first �time I was away from home. My whole idea was, I want to repay them for everything that they had done for me, but my father wanted me to come home through the Philippines and through Europe, not through Europe, the Pacific, and I wanted to go around the world. I wanted to go through Europe, there were certain places I wanted to see. So fortunately, in those days, communication was not very good, and I knew that if I started around the world, my father couldn't get me, he wouldn't know where I was, so I started around, I went around the world. I was by myself most of the time. I had the itinerary of the other exchange students, so that when I got homesick, I'd go hunt for them and then we'd be together for a little while and then we'd go off. But I went to the Philippines and Singapore and it was interesting to see those places when I came back after the war. Then I remember particularly going to India, and I'd become so accustomed to Chinese tea, it was very delicate, very slight, so we had to taste this Ceylon tea, the British said was just so good, so we went to taste the Ceylon tea, and I saw them put the cream in it and the lemon in it, and I thought, if it's so good, why do they doctor it like that? I couldn't buy it, I didn't like that strong stuff, and I went back to my Chinese tea, and I still prefer the Chinese tea. When I came down, I went through the Suez Canal, stopped at Cairo, and that was the first time, I thought, I'll never go on another tour again, not on one of the tours, from Cairo to see the pyramids. They gave you typical tourist tour, I was riding on camels and I had pictures taken of us on the camels, and I was horrified, I thought, you don't do that. I was a typical student so I didn't like that idea. Then I went to Versailles, and I took a train, and of course, I had $50, I went through Europe on $50. It amuses me that the young girls today think they're so adventuresome. The way I did it was, I took my train rides and slept on the train at night, or on a train station, and then I would have a good breakfast and a good dinner. Then if I was staying over in a place then I'd go to a pensione or some tourist's home, I never went to a big hotel. But what is amusing to me now is that from Versailles to Genoa, I carried on a conversation with a gentleman in French, he didn't speak any English, and my French �was not all that good, but we did carry on a conversation and he wanted to know where I was spending the night, and I told him, there at the railway station, he said, "Girls don't do that, you come home with me," and you know, I did. I laugh about it today, I went to his home and his mother was there. I slept on a couch downstairs. He took me on a tour of Lautelle [?] before he left and got me on the train the next day and went to Pompeii – when I think about it, I wouldn't do that today! I was innocence abroad. There was Skinner's book about innocents abroad or something like that, I can't remember the name about these young girls who toured Europe. I read that book and that's exactly what I did. I went to Munich, I went to Germany and when I was in Germany when the Olympics where being held, that was in '36. I didn't see the Olympics, I didn't have money enough so I couldn't get a ticket, but I stayed at German hostels there and one of the interesting things that happened to me, I love opera and I was going to see opera in Germany, and they did have "Die Walkuren" that night. The only ticket I could get was right down front, so I went in an evening dress, I did spend money for a taxi to get there, and I was right down front. I'll never forget the sound of those German voices singing that "Ride of the Valkyries" I thought the roof was going to go off the place. But on the way home then I was being very economical, I went by subway, and didn't speak a word of German, and I got lost. Finally I found some German gentleman , young fellow, who spoke English and told me I was on the other end of town, and he very kindly took me all the way back, and took me right back to the hostel where I was staying, took me home. Another that happened – I allowed so much money for each country, and when I went into France – although I went from Germany into Belgium – I only had a certain amount of money left, so again, not being able to read German, I went to the train station, and they had a special on the menu, so all specials I assumed were food, but it turned out to be an alcoholic beverage and I didn't drink in those days, and it was scotch, and I drank it, so I went out, because I had some time until the train left, I went out in the street, and got in the midst of this huge crowed which just �pushed me, I couldn't move, pushed me down and all I saw was two heads on one person, and I figured, better get back to the train station. Somehow I got back to the train station and sat down on a bench until it went away. Then I went on to Belgium. RED PETACH: I didn't know much, really. After my experience as a student, as an exchange student at Lingao, I wanted to go back, again to return some of what I had learned, and I informed one of these other exchange students, and our letters passed in the mail, saying that she was going to go to nursing school too, so we went to Yale Nursing School. FRANK BORING: We need to start from the very beginning of that again, so when you returned back as an exchange student and the mail crossed over – start that part again. RED PETACH: So when I returned home and decided to go to Yale Nursing School, so I could go back to China, and this other exchange student – our letter crossed in the mail – saying she was going too. So we spent three years in Yale University, got our master’s degree, and when I graduated, the only way I could get back was in the missionary field, and I just didn't quite fill that category, so I went on to do public health nursing in Minneapolis. I was home on vacation and I had just gone back and started work again and at that time Major Gentry was canvassing the east coast to try to find people to join the AVG. They got to Yale University and they said I know somebody who wants to go to China, I don't know where she is now but I know where she lives, so he got my father's phone number and called him, and I being very smart-alecky when I came home, I called my work and said, "Were there any messages for me" and they said, "Yes you have a call from your father". I was very worried, so I didn't wait 'til I got home, I called from a department store, I called my father, and my father said, "You got a call from China, you 'll go home and stay home until you go". So I sent home to my apartment and knowing well that my father who was a doctor, didn't approve of, why on earth, anybody with a �master’s degree, work in the slums. He thought I should be a hospital administrator, he'd spent money on me going to school, but he wanted me to be a hospital administrator, and of course, that didn't interest me at all. I liked the contact with people outside. At the time, I was going with a gentleman, and Major Gentry called me and told me what he wanted and he wanted somebody in surgery and I was not very good in surgery, I didn't fit that very well. I said I hadn't had much experience in that. I didn't know whether I wanted to go or I didn't want to go, and he finally talked me out of it, so I said, "Okay, I will go", but I was still not sure I wanted to go, because I was dating somebody and this gentleman I was dating, "I said, if you marry me, I won't go, and he said, "I won't do that because you will regret it all your life," and I knew he was right, I knew I had to go back, I knew I would be sorry if I didn't go. So within 24 hours, I was on my way home, and going back to China, and I got involved with the Flying Tigers, the AVG. FRANK BORING: What did Gentry really do to convince you to go? RED PETACH: When I talked to Major Gentry on the phone, he told me that this was an outfit that was going over to protect the Burma Road, and that I would help in the operating room, doing this sort of thing, and having been in the operating room, I anticipated what we would be doing. He was mainly working in the hospital, this is what I assumed, but it didn't turn out to be that way. FRANK BORING: Did he tell you anything further about who else was going to be going? RED PETACH: At that time I didn't know who else was going, I knew he was trying to recruit three nurses, but at that time, he had no numbers, I didn't know of any numbers, and I didn't know what outfits there were. I knew it was a flight unit, an aviation unit that was to protect the Burma Road. Really at that point, to get back to China, it didn't much matter to me what it was, I figured I could fit in some way. �FRANK BORING: What was the reaction of your family when you told them you were going to go? RED PETACH: My father would do anything to get me out of working in those slums, he just thought that was ridiculous and I think he liked the idea that I was adventurous and I was going to go back, because he did some training as a physician in Vienna… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 2 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks discusses her tour of Europe after being an exchange student in Lingao and attending Yale Nursing School upon her return home, where she was recruited for the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd1faa537c77dc2bc4fc50b90fe995fe.mp4 ef4c2005653addb39f47d2f8ea702b5f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ab35dfde1db5f15d05771ee90c838aa.pdf 939b064d29c914fd5945499f95e40355 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Emma Jane “Red” Petach Date of interview: May 17, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] RED PETACH: When I was a little girl – I've always been interested in China. My father used to take us to a Chinese restaurant so I learned something about Chinese food and when I became adolescent, I devoured Fu Man Chu books, mystery stories and Pearl Buck, so the love of China and the interest in China has always been there. Then when I went to college and I went to Penn State, they had a scholarship program Lee Nom in China, Penn State and China and Canton China. They'd had that for several years but they were always men exchange students. I sang in the choir so I heard about it, they always announced in the assemblies, and I heckled and heckled and finally got them to admit women, so I was one of the first, one of the few women – there were five of us – and there were 25 men. It was the first time I'd ever been away from home. It was a wonderful experience – I left by train and when that train rolled around the corner, if I could have gotten out of there, I would have not gone and I was homesick all the way across the United States. FRANK BORING: Let's go back just a few (inaudible)… RED PETACH: I come from a family, there were six of us, two girls, three boys and myself, and when my brothers said to me, "Jump", I always asked, "How high?" They ruled the roost, but I when I went anywhere I always had my family with me. The rest of the family �were never interested in travelling, I always was, even as a little girl, when I was just barely able to walk, they found me at the other end of town just enjoying myself and my neighbors had to bring me back, I was having such a good time, so even early on I was – and I was the only one in the family who's travelled. When I finally coaxed them into allowing women to go to China, my brother, my one brother particularly said that he wanted to go but he couldn't go. They always had a good reason for not going, but my father told me later on that I was the one in the family that he would have said to go, I guess because I was the one who was really independent. I was a women's liberator way back even then. But as I went across the country, I was so homesick I cried all the way practically, and I remember people on the train, a young gentleman on the train who said, "Someday, we're going to read about you in the paper." I thought, uh huh, that one I don't believe, but my father had me wear an eastern star, the little slipper, so that I would be taken care of if anything would happen, some man would come to my assistance. As far as I know I didn't need that assistance, but when we came out to San Francisco, we stayed there for quite a while. I met Josie and the rest of the fellas, some of the fellas, Major Gentry was there. We waited a long time because – I don't remember now how many days, but we wanted to go badly, and then they decided they were going to send a crew, there were about 150, but they weren't going to take us, and Josie and me again heckled and heckled and heckled and finally we went on a Norwegian, a Dutch freighter and I got the captain to permit us to go. Our quarters were on the top deck of the ship, we were in the nursery, so we had a fence around us, and they put up cots and our toilet facilities were made for children but I found that very amusing. The Captain was very generous, he allowed us to use his bath for our baths, but I noticed that in my letters that I wrote back home, that every time we moved off that deck we were flanked by medics we couldn't move, they were protecting this precious cargo and I must admit it was a little annoying, but every time we went down to dinner we had to go down below decks to dinner, we were �escorted by the medics all the time. They were very much in favor of me going. FRANK BORING: Once the decision was made for you to go under the exchange student program, tell us about that part. RED PETACH: My parents encouraged me – I wouldn't say that encouraged me – I didn't need any encouragement, I wanted to go very badly and they were in favor of it. That was a wonderful experience for me and that was one of the things that changed my life. I was interrupted and I'm getting my stories mixed up because when I went as an exchange student to San Francisco and I met my aunt, and then we went on a Japanese freighter and we went to Tokyo and then I took a train from Tokyo through Manchuria through Beijing, Peking we called it, and down to Singapore, Macao and then down to Hong Kong, and then into Canton, and that's where I learned to eat with chopsticks, and it was the first time I had ever had raw fish because it was a Japanese freighter, we learned to eat that kind of food, but the thing that is interesting to me now is that the film, "The Emperor", I was there while he was there, and when they showed the film I would start analyzing it because there was a picture of him in Diram [?) where we had been and it was just an unbelievable experience, and I remember when we stayed in the university at Canton, I had two Chinese room-mates and the one in particular I correspond with today. We would take trips into China and one of the experiences that I had there, we went by train as far as we could and then we took a bus into Peking, the Forbidden City. It had not been open to tourists. I spent four days in that Forbidden City, all by myself. We were staying in a missionary's home and I would take a lunch, and then I'd just wonder around that Forbidden City. It was an experience that few people have had. Their clothes were still on their beds, the food was still there on the couches, and to see all that furniture and all those wonderful – the architecture – I just wallowed in all that, I felt like Alice in Wonderland. The Japanese had it controlled pretty much, they didn't realize what a tourist attraction it was. �FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) RED PETACH: I majored in political science, again it was a thing a woman didn't do, and minored in sociology. Most of our classes were taught – all of our classes were taught in English by Chinese professors. We had I think, two professors but they were Chinese who spoke English. I did try to learn a little Cantonese, I never did learn Mandarin, but I learned enough to get around when I was in China, but we stayed at the inns at the Chinese dormitories, and we had just mats, no mattresses, and when I came home as an exchange student, I slept on the floor for a couple of months because I couldn't get used to those soft beds, my body just was too rigid for the soft beds. FRANK BORING: You had read about the Chinese up to that point. What was your actual impression of the Chinese once you got there? RED PETACH: I was just enthralled by the Chinese. I was amazed at the poverty, I had never seen that, begging, that sort of thing. But the professors we had, I was just impressed by their gentleness, their kindness, their intelligence. They were – it's hard to describe really, I had a kind of reverence for them because I respected them so much, but of course, some of the culture was very different. Some of the political leaders would come to talk to us and we'd go to various Chinese occasions, and I can remember the first time I was impressed, we had an excellent speaker and we were very impressed with what he said and right in the middle of it he burped so that you could hear him all over the four corners of the room, and I was astounded that he would do that, but then I found out that that was a sign that they'd had good food, that was one of the cultures in China I had to get used to, but it was all so interesting to me. My room-mates came, Chinese girls came from very good families, only good families went in for an education. We were foreigners and were never invited to their houses, it was understood it wasn't the thing to do. But we toured a lot, we �bicycled a lot all over, staying at monasteries, that sort of thing. I got so much out of that experience - that was the reason I went into nursing. I wanted to go back to China to return to them some of the benefits that I had gotten, and I knew the best way to get there was in medicine. Being a doctor was just going to take too long, and I had met some Americans out there who had been in China at Yale and had been to Yale Nursing School, so one of the other exchange students and I – our letters passed in the mail – both of us decided we were going to go to Yale School of Nursing, so when I got back home to Penn State, that was in '35, '36, I came home in '36, I graduated in '37, but then I had to take extra courses. I took a chemistry course and a zoology course in the summer so that I could get into the Yale School of Nursing and I got my master’s degree from the Yale School of Nursing and of course, when I was there at Yale, they all knew I wanted to go back, and when I graduated from Yale, the only way I could get back at the time was in the missionary field, and that just didn't quite fit me, I didn't quite fall into that category, so I decided – I always liked public health better than hospital work so I went out to Minneapolis to do nursing work, and I'd been home on vacation and just come back, Major Gentry had been going to the east coast recruiting people for the AVG and they came to the Yale university and they said, I know somebody who wants to go, but I don't know where she lives, so they called my father at home. When I got back from vacation and when to the Visiting Nursing Office, I called, and being a real smart aleck, doing what I was supposed to do if I'd been out in the district. "This is Jane Foster calling, are there any messages for me and she said, your father called. The first thing I thought of was there's something wrong, so I didn't wait to get back home, I called from downtown from a department store, and Dad said, “You're getting a call from China. Stay home until you get it.” � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Petach_Red_1991-05-17_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanks, Emma Jane (Foster Petach Hanks) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-17 Title A name given to the resource Emma Jane "Red" Petach Hanks interview (video and transcript, 1 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Emma Jane (Foster Petach) Hanks by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Emma Jane "Red" Foster first traveled to China as the first woman foreign exchange student at Lingham University in Canton in 1935-1936. After receiving her B.A. from Penn State (1937) and Masters in Nursing from Yale University (1940), she joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) medical team in 1941. On her trip to China aboard the Jaegersfontein, she met John "Pete" Petach, 2nd Squadron Flight Leader. She was the only RN who served with the AVG and helped the three physicians take care of men who contracted dengue fever and malaria as well as those injured in accidents or combat. In February 1942, she and Pete Petach were married by AVG chaplain Paul Frillman in Kunming, China. Red and Pete decided to stay several days to help Col. Chennault after the AVG disbanded. During that time, Pete Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang. After the war, she continued her nursing career in various capacities and in 1964 married Christian Hanks, a former Hump pilot for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC). In this tape, Hanks describes her background and interest in China as an exchange student before becoming involved with the American Volunteer Group. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/92d2658e9ebd7e7edfcacb697f46eccb.mp4 aca7a48ac70bbc3cf742630299cf38e9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aaf0d71b82435b386a20948390995b58.pdf 4c9a9900320f5d6dd13bc30323bef98a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] JUDGE OLDER: Starting in late April and early May of 1942 when we were at Loiwing, the army air force started sending in a few people preparatory to bringing many more later on and they had set up some headquarters somewhere and were starting to designate some missions for the AVG to fly, and I can remember one particular mission they had us scheduled to fly was one down into Burma in the area of a little town called Kong Hi Ping, south east of Lashio, about 60 miles where they wanted us to go down there on a fighter sweep and strafe targets of opportunity is what it amounted to. I was pretty well convinced - I was the operations officer for the 3rd squadron - I was intimately familiar with what was going on and where it was going on and I was convinced it was still held by the Chinese, even though it was Burma, but the Japs were moving up fairly fast in Burma, and I kept checking back with this army air force Intelligence Officer, telling him that I didn't think that's what he wanted to do, that Kong Hi Ping was still Chinese and, no, he said he'd check and call back and he'd check and call back and I'd talk it over with the others and still believed it wasn't right. This went on three or four five telephone calls. Anyway, we ran the mission and I happened to be leading the flight, and we went down to Kong Hi Ping and finally found a long line of trucks on a road that appeared to be coming in from the east, which could have been Thailand, but I wasn't sold yet, but that was my mission, so we strafed the trucks and set a good number of them on fire and �finally left. I was convinced - or I was not convinced that we were not strafing Chinese trucks. Fortunately we had given them enough warning by circling in the area so that I believe all of the personnel got out of the trucks and were dispersed into the jungle so we weren't killing people, we were just shooting up trucks. JUDGE OLDER: Near the end of the AVG, this is now Kunming, we were told to be in the theater at one of the hostels, I think it was hostel number one, but I'm not sure, at 8 o'clock that night for some kind of a meeting. When we got there, it turns out that the meeting was for the purpose of allowing, I think he was a Colonel then, he later became a General, in fact, he later became court-marshalled in Germany after the war - his name was Clayton Bissell. Colonel Bissell was there, and I might say, the army couldn't have sent anyone less qualified as a public relations man than this guy. He was there to tell us what we were going to do after the AVG disbanded. That got us off to a wrong start right there because we were civilians, we weren't in the army. So we thought maybe we'd like to have something to say about what we were going to do after the AVG was disbanded. Anyway, things went from bad to worse and I don't if it all ended up with catcalls and boos but it was almost that bad. It was just a very poor approach by the army to try to get us to stay in over there and not to go home after our contracts were finished. FRANK BORING: There's a couple of points I'd like you to clarify involving that. 1) why did the army want you to stay on, and 2) what were your decisions already? What decisions had you made? Were you still wondering what you were going to stay there or go home? What were your personal feelings about this? JUDGE OLDER: I didn't have any intention of staying on after the year was up when I went over there and during the time I was there. In the first place I had gotten engaged just before I left and I told my wife I'd meet her in Honolulu and we'd have a honeymoon there. That, of course, didn't work out because of the war, but I was still intending to go �home and get married. After that, I wasn't quite sure. Maybe go back in the service or what. And there were many others who felt the same way, but some did want to stay over and some did. I later came back to China in 1944 and 1945 in the 23rd Fighter Group, but I wanted go get home first before I fought any more war. FRANK BORING: Why did the army want you to stay? JUDGE OLDER: Because we were experienced fighter pilots and - the army wanted us to stay because we were an experienced fighter group and the people they were bringing in had no combat experience. Our feeling was you can get it in a hurry when you get serious, so it really wasn't all that important. FRANK BORING: There's two final questions and take your time about answering them if you want. (Inaudible) at that period in your life during that period of time which was one year of your life. JUDGE OLDER: I don't know how to lead into it. I feel that my experience in the AVG was very rewarding in several respects. In the first place I was doing something that I knew how to do, was trained for. I was fighting the fight against the enemy. I had no idea that we'd be in a world war while I was over there, it's the way it turned out. I was also seeing a good part of the world as it turned out too before I got home and that was one of the things I wanted to do when I was over there. But mostly it was a feeling of being in the right place at the right time, and that's really the story of the AVG. What we accomplished in numbers of aircraft shot down, although we shot down a lot, probably didn't change the course of the war, it helped of course. But if you recall back, in early 1942, those were the dark days of the war, the allies were losing the war on every front except one and that was where the AVG was. We were the only ones accomplishing any significant victories at that particular time. The Germans were kicking the hell out of the British in the desert, they'd already kicked them out of France. The Japanese were roaming all over the Pacific, but in one tiny place in Burma, the �AVG was winning every fight. And the significance of that is not how many airplanes we shot down, but that that was a morale booster for everybody on the allies' side, because the media played that up, as they should because this was news. You could pick up the paper at home and read about all the bad stuff on one side, but on the other side, there'd be an article about the AVG knocking the hell out of the Japanese. FRANK BORING: One final question. What do you feel about being called a Flying Tiger? JUDGE OLDER: Time out! FRANK BORING: …from you, is your own personal - not just the AVG or all that, you've mentioned AVG already which is the Flying Tigers, but just the term Flying Tigers. JUDGE OLDER: In my own eyes, it has a great deal of prestige for the reasons that I've already mentioned, but I think the main idea - I think I'm most proud of the fact that I had, for one reason for another I made the decision to resign from the Marine Corps before the war at a time when this country needed somebody in China and China certainly needed us, and to go over with these other volunteers, and in effect, walk into the unknown, because we really didn't know what we were walking into. I think that's the thing I like about it best. FRANK BORING: Where do you think the AVG fits in terms of the history of China? JUDGE OLDER: That's a big subject! I don't know! I think the AVG's part in the defense of China was significant for much the same reasons morale reasons. The Chinese had been engaged with the Japanese on the losing side for five years in 1941-42. That was between Japan and China having started in 1937, and the Japanese had bombed Chinese cities without any real opposition, and the Chinese had just been subjected to war in all of its forms for five years, and on the losing side. So they were really hanging on the �ropes in 1941 and 1942. In fact, they were hanging on the ropes in 1940 when, without warning, the British closed the Burma Road. They subsequently re-opened it but that was a real body blow when in 1940, the British closed the Burma Road, because that was the only lifeline going into China. But then they re-opened it again. Mainly it was the idea that the Chinese were now on the winning side, that the Americans there to help them were shooting down Japanese and they had visible evidence of this, and this was a tremendous morale boost, something they needed more than anything else at the time outside of some real tangible help. FRANK BORING: One last question, just about what the AVG did in solving [?] in terms of the keeping China in the war? JUDGE OLDER: I wasn't a part of that. I was in the hospital at the time - and how much good? That's a matter for dispute, I guess. FRANK BORING: This will be the last one… JUDGE OLDER: From time to time I hear people apply the term "mercenary" to the AVG, and I would like to respond to that because I think it's utter nonsense. My definition of a mercenary as that term has been used historically applying to the military, has been someone who's willing to fight for either side, for compensation. There was no one in the AVG that was willing to fight for either side. We knew why we were there. We knew which side we were fighting for, who we were fighting against, and there was never any question about that. So that mercenary term is just a term of denigration that has no application whatever to our group. FRANK BORING: Did Olga live up to the original advertising that she was…? JUDGE OLDER: She was a very striking woman, she was very pretty and good figure, and she stood out like a lighthouse in Burma because there was no-one else around anything like her. I think in some way, she kind of gave a boost to the young bucks in the AVG, just being �there, just by being able to see a good-looking woman reminded you of some the things you left behind. FRANK BORING: This is the end of the interview. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 7 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older describes the meeting with General Bissell near the end of the AVG and his plans as his contract ended. He also expresses what his experience in the AVG meant to him and how it felt to be known as a Flying Tiger. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/35702f7983002d508cc7a230b70e8d11.mp4 cda7b78ca91f3fdc43325046ccc64f11 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/066af3df489bbb75f3bde9ba317e3c8b.pdf a8bcadcb995126a856276c128a8e7a07 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] JUDGE OLDER: After one of the missions at Loiwing, Duke Hedman joined up on my wing and I decided that we might be able to pick up something if we headed out toward Thailand, so we went out about 60 miles and didn't see a thing. We were flying at about 10,000 ft. under a broken cloud layer, and so I turned around and headed back to Loiwing, and as we were going back, I saw coming toward us up in front, what appeared to be a Jap fighter, but I wasn't absolutely sure, but it did appear to have radial engine which would mean Japanese, because all of our fighters had M-line engines, and we passed each other on the same level, and I'd say probably 500 yards apart and I just pulled up into a steep chandelle to get a look at his markings and I was certain it was Japanese, but I wanted to see him anyway, and start back down on his tail, and he didn't hurry, he just stayed right headed toward Thailand. I felt sure he was going to do a flick turn and come back on us at any second, so I probably started firing a little bit out of range, thinking that was the only shot I was going to get. I know I hit him because the plane gave a lurch just like that, and in the next instance he just pulled the thing up to a flat loop and came right back over our heads. I could look up into the cockpit and tell you what he was wearing. He was wearing a dark blue flight suit and the fight was on and Duke and I tangled with this guy from 10,000 all the way down to I don't know where and finally he went into a hillside and that was confirmed later by a missionary on the ground who had seen this. �That was an interesting incident. Another incident there was - I was scrambled off one day with P.J. Green to go after a Jap reconnaissance aircraft and we had no idea of where he was coming come from or what altitude, but they just scrambled us off and said, go get him. So I decided I'd go up to as high as we could get reasonably, which is 27,000. At that time of the year there's a very thick haze in northern Burma, I mean really thick. You can't see horizontally, you can only see straight down. So I was looking out the side of the airplane at 27,000, looking straight down, and this Jap reconnaissance plane, the I-45, twin engine, very fast, came right out from under the trailing edge of my wing. He was about 3,000 ft. below us. I knew if I took my eyes off of him, I'd never see him again, so Green was on my right side, I just pulled over and we started down, and he never saw us. I started firing because we were coming so fast - I started firing, again probably a little bit out of range, because we were closing so fast. And I saw him - the pilot go out the left side of the airplane and pull the 'chute, but I never saw the 'chute open. As it turned out, it didn't open because they found him later. In the mean time - and then broke off - then Paul got separated from me. I got back on the ground and had to talk him back in by asking him where he was when we got separated and from that I knew where we were, I could talk him back in and he finally got in. FRANK BORING: After this, Chennault asked you to go and pick up some new airplanes, was this right around the same period of time? JUDGE OLDER: Yes, that was when - I believe that was before we got to Loiwing, before I got to Loiwing. FRANK BORING: If you could give us perhaps a highlight or a particular part of that trip that made it memorable for you. JUDGE OLDER: Yes, it was in late February and March that Chennault ordered six of us to go to the Gold Coast of West Africa and pick up six new P-40E's. The reason we were going to - the place was called �Takoradi, right near Accra on the Gold Coast - was because they were being assembled there. They had an assembly area on this field, and being test flown there, and someone had to fly them back to China. So P.J. Green, R.T. Smith, Older, Haywood, Benny Foshee and I think Link Laughlin were the six. So we flew CNAC over the Hump to Calcutta, then we got on a BOAC flying boat on the Hooghly River at Calcutta and flew across India and landed at Karachi in the bay, then went on to Sahara?, now in the Emirates, southern Arabian Peninsula and spent one overnight, then went to Batzra, spent a night or two in Batzra, then went over and landed on the Sea of Galilee in what was then Palestine and finally, on the Nile, Cairo. After a couple of days in Cairo, we got on a DC3 army DC3 - went south to Khartoum and then jumped away across Africa, Elobey, El Facha, El Geneina, and finally down to Takoradi. An interesting incident happened in El Facha which is just a mud hut village. We were there for about 45 minutes to refuel and I decided I'd walk around this little village, and I was by myself at the moment. As I turned the corner of this street, I came face to face with a full grown lioness walking down the middle of this street. I was paralyzed! I didn't know what to do so I didn't do anything, I just - I was afraid to run because - I just was afraid. So I stood there and this lioness without paying the slightest bit of attention to me, just walked right down the middle of the street, right be me. I turns out later she was the village mascot and quite tame. I don't know if she knew she was take, they thought she was tame. So that was one of the incidents that happened on the trip. We stayed in Takoradi a few days and test flew the airplanes, and the Tom Haywood and I took off with two of them. Our first return gas stop was a little place called Osogbo in the middle of Nigeria. We got there and one of us had a big bubble on one tire that had to be changed and the other airplane was having mag trouble, so we spent a couple of nights there and they finally decided in Takoradi that rather than fly in spare parts and mechanics and so forth that we should come back and pick up two new airplanes and they'd get those later, so we took the train back to Lagos and went right through the middle of the Nigerian jungle all night. No windows in �the cars incidentally, and the wildest screeches and howls you ever heard coming from the jungle and got back to Takoradi and picked up two more airplanes. This time, Benny Foshee was my wingman instead of Tom Haywood and Benny and I made the trip all the way back to China. FRANK BORING: When you returned, I understand you heard about the death of a very good friend, I wonder if you could tell us about that. JUDGE OLDER: Yes, while I was gone, the 3rd squadron and I think one or two of the - maybe all of the squadrons were at a place called Magwe, Burma, and the Japs bombed Magwe. There were two of our people killed there, one was my good friend Frank Swartz who was in my class at Pensacola and the other was an airman named Fauth. I can't think of his first name but he was a 3rd squadron airman and they were both hit by bomb fragments on the ground and I think Fauth was killed instantly and Swartz was severely injured and taken to India where he subsequently died in the hospital there. That was a great loss. Frank - Swartzy as we called him was a great guy. FRANK BORING: I wonder if you could give us your impressions of the Chinese people. You were in Kunming for a while, you got a chance to meet some of these people. What were your impressions of the Chinese? JUDGE OLDER: I liked the Chinese, I liked the Burmese too. Kunming is a large city - it doesn't like a large city but it has a large population. It had then - I would guess somewhere between 300,000 and a half a million. But by looking at the city from the air, it was just all one story buildings for the most part. It didn't look like much. But the Chinese are very cheerful for one thing, they are extremely hardworking, dedicated, loyal. Couldn't do enough for us. �FRANK BORING: Did you ever get a chance to meet either Generalissimo, Chiang Kai-shek or Madam Chiang Kai-shek, could you give us your impressions of them? JUDGE OLDER: I didn't meet either of them personally until after the war when we had a reunion in Taipei at the Grand Hotel and both Generalissimo and Madam Chiang Kai-shek were there. But my impression of Chiang from what I'd seen and heard long before I ever had a chance to meet him was that he was in many respects like Chennault, just a very single purposed, dedicated man who had spent his life trying to bring China out of the old regime and into something new and had been highly successful at it. FRANK BORING: Towards the end of your contract with AVG - I realize that this was a very difficult period of time for all of you - but as July 4th started to become closer and closer, could you give us an idea of what you were thinking about. It was being asked for you to stay on and rejoin the army air corps. There was somewhat of dissension of people who were not agreeing with the missions that were being asked to fly - these dangerous morale missions. Could you give us an idea of what your impressions were of these final month or days or… JUDGE OLDER: I think some of the problems started when we were at Loiwing in late April, maybe early May. We didn't know it at the time, but somewhere in that period, Chennault had been commissioned to Brigadier General in the US army air forces, because everyone knew that our group was slated to disband on July 4th of 1942, and as I say, we didn't know that. Some of the army air force's people started coming into China, not many but a few, and of course, we were getting feedback from India where there were quite a few of them over there. We started getting orders to fly some, what I thought were just kooky missions, like, one was to fly down and circle around in Burma the front lines. The Japs were moving up in Burma and the Chinese where Stillwell and his forces were down there. It was kind of a rapidly changing situation, but they wanted �us to go down there and fly around at low altitudes, just sort of motor around casually to let the Chinese see the insignia on our airplanes to boost their morale. My thinking was that their morale wouldn't be boosted very much by seeing us get shot down doing that kind of silly nonsense and so, why do it? So we started making some complaints about missions like that, and then they had a mission to escort Blenheim's, I think, to Chiang Mai Anyway, there were a number of things and I began to get the feelings and others too - probably most of the others - that Chennault was no longer calling the shots, that we were being used by somebody to do this kind of nonsense, and we weren't there for the purpose we came over there for, which was to fight the Japanese. So people started to get unhappy about this and we did have a meeting at one time with Chennault and everybody expressed their opinions and it got rather heated. I don't know whether anybody flat out refused to do anything; we certainly let it be known what our feelings were. It all cooled down afterwards and I remember Chennault one day was sitting outside the alert shack at Kunming, - Loiwing - and I sat down next to him, just the two of us happened to be there at the moment, and he turned to me and said, "Charlie, I don't quite understand the feelings of some of the pilots about some of these missions that we've been talking about and the resentment that they seem to have for some of them." And I said, "Well General, we don't mind risking our lives but we just don't want to throw them away, that's the feeling." He didn't say anything. Anyway, it all passed, missions went on again, but I think had we known at that time that he was a Brigadier General in the army air forces and that he obviously was being told by somebody to do these things that he never would have done on his, because it just wasn't Chennault, it was completely out of character as far as I could see, that we probably would have been more understanding, and he would have been more understanding and the whole thing would have passed by without any problem. It was just a particular time that did pass and I don't think he ever lost any respect for us and we certainly never lost any respect for him. As I say, I never saw or heard �anybody refuse to fly any mission, but we certainly did discuss them. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 6 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older discusses the loss of Frank Swartz, his impressions of the Chinese people while in Kunming, and his thoughts as their contracts with the AVG were nearing the end. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9a24cf8de1615a945ffdefa07c66dba.mp4 f7e3b029f34382e56e4a376cc2a24f64 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/42dce1bb37b774688e2e8081f5db3d8f.pdf f70d86e5fcef004e253976679cf524f6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: What happened? JUDGE OLDER: Oh, I don't know the only time I ever flew with Greg was one time we were going from Kunming to Loiwing, but the two of us. I don't remember the occasion when he left I just knew that he had left. FRANK BORING: How did you rate him as a pilot? JUDGE OLDER: Good pilot, yeah. I was always got along fine with Greg. But he was a mean mother when he got drunk. And I had learned early to stay away from him when he was like that. He was like a bull. That's when he got into all his troubles, you know, get half bombed and take on anybody. FRANK BORING: OK. Let's start off with the Christmas time right after this happened. Tokyo Rose something about Tokyo Rose. JUDGE OLDER: At Rangoon on evening of the 23rd, December 23rd, after our first combat the Tokyo radio came on, Tokyo Rose and said that, I forget how she described us, outlaw Americans, or some term like that, had been engaged by the Imperial Japanese Air Force over Rangoon that day and that she just wanted to inform the Americans that the Japanese would be back to drop them some Christmas �presents two days later on Christmas Day. True to her word they were. That was our second alert and we had 13 airplanes in the air that day. One flight of seven and one flight of six. That's my recollection. Could have been a couple more plus the RAF had their aircraft I don't remember exactly how many. The Japs came over with bigger bomber formations this time they did make a switch. Instead of coming in from the East they went around, at least the formation that attack Mingaladon, went around to the south and came in from the west. So they didn't like what they found when they were bombing the first time. When they ran into AVG. So this way at least they'd be headed home after the dropped their bombs. Tom Haywood was flying on my wing that day. We met them at particularly the same level, but several miles apart. They were coming in from the west and he were heading east, south of them. We turned into them and couldn't make any head on passes the situation didn't allow that. We had to dive down and come up underneath again. Tom and I stayed together pretty closely for the first few passes. Each of us got a couple of bombers. They were dropping like flies. They were rolling out of the formation, wings coming off, blowing up. It was a scene of like something out of hell. We'd follow them down some of them and then come back up and attack again. Eventually we got separated and I decided I would head out east toward the Gulf of Martaban to see if I could pick up anybody going home. Because I still had gas, and I still had ammunition. Up ahead I spotted a Jap fighter and I was sure that he would see me so I came up from underneath him expecting any minute that he was going to do a snap turn and be after me, but he didn't. I let him have one long burst he started down, started smoking, went down the long wide spiral. We were up about 15,000, 10,000. Finally saw one wing come off and then he went into the Gulf of Martaban. Then on the way back to the base I saw another fighter up ahead of me and I thought it looked like it was a Hurricane- RAF. But I made the same kind of approach on him just to make sure for identification. I came underneath right like this and then slid out to one side and I was flying on formation before he saw me. And he turned around and �the first time he saw me and did a double take that almost took his head off because I was flying right on his wing. I think I taught him a lesson. Anyway, it was a big day we got 25 Japs fighters and bombers that day. The RAF got some. We didn't lose anybody that day. Although we did lose an airplane or two but the pilots were saved. JUDGE OLDER: You asked me how I felt after I shot down an enemy aircraft. Well, at the time you are so busy you don't have much time to be thinking about that. You're thinking about keeping from getting shot down yourself. FRANK BORING: Referring to my question then we can't use them. Just say the first time the way I felt the first time I ever shot down an airplane something on that instead of asking the question. JUDGE OLDER: I wondered how I would feel the first time I shot down an enemy aircraft. As it turns out you're so busy in combat trying to keep from getting shot down yourself that you don't really have time to think about it until later. I mean just briefly in passing when that big bomber rolled out that I shot down on the first day and headed down, the one that blew the bomb bay out, I wondered first how many Japanese were aboard, I wondered what their rank were because I thought this being the leader of the formation and the first time they had ever hit Rangoon they may well have had a high ranking officer up there, just either piloting the aircraft or along for the ride to see what happened. And those are the kind of things you wonder about. When I shot down the fighter the first time, the one I came up underneath and got without any response from him. I just wondered, you know, who he was, where he came from, what he would have done if the situation had been reversed. I think I knew that answer. I also wondered if he was Japanese or Korean because we had heard that a lot of the pilots in the Japanese Air Force were Korean's. Those are all things you wonder about. I felt sorry for him in a way, but on the other hand I knew that if the �situation was reversed he'd be shooting me down. It was one of those him or me situations. FRANK BORING: Stop for a second. JUDGE OLDER: So when Ford says in his book that later designate Jap retractable landing gear fighters. FRANK BORING: Without referring to Ford. JUDGE OLDER: Why not? FRANK BORING: Well because that would be outside the realm of record what you actually thought and why. We can't reference The Maverick War Shultz, Ford or whatever what we are trying to get. It doesn't matter what he wrote. We don't want to give any credit to Ford or anybody else. FRANK BORING: All set? If you could explain to us the kind of planes that you fought and the names of what those planes were. JUDGE OLDER: The bombers that we fought were primarily Sally’s, what they called Sally’s. It was a twin engine bomber. I don't really know, I've forgotten the specs now of it. But it was a pretty good bomber. Had a top gun, bottom gun, nose gun. Reasonably fast. I don't know what the bomb load was but it was a pretty good bomber. As to the fighters. At the start of the war it seemed that the term zero was a generic term used at least among our people, I don't know where it came from, to describe any Japanese retractable landing gear fighter. But a little later on we hardly I don't think we ever referred to them as zeros. We called them, each airplane had a specific name, like there were Oscars - that was a Jap fighter, a good one. Hamps, was a squared tipped wing, squared wind tip fighter. They had a very fast reconnaissance, I shot one of those down. We called it an I45. That was as fast as a P40. Twin engine and had good altitude. �FRANK BORING: Let's move on from the first few raids. At this point had you could tell us what happened after you left Rangoon and why you? Rangoon. JUDGE OLDER: Well, Chennault rotated the squadrons from Kunming to Rangoon and our third squadron was sent up to Kunming and one of the other squadrons came down to relieve us from Rangoon. Kunming was an entirely different place than Rangoon. It is not tropical it is on the high Yunnan Plateau. At an altitude of about 6400 feet. And in the winter it is cold. Big base there, and training school and we were on alert all the time because of the threat of Japanese bombers attacking Kunming as they had before. In January the Japs sent a flight of 3 Sally’s up from Indo-China probably Hanoi and one of our flights scrambled to get them. I was in that flight and we went down South to a place called Mengzi. In the vicinity of Mengzi where we encountered them coming north and we attack them and I got the leader of that flight and we shared the victory credits on the other two. FRANK BORING: What was the routine if you will like after that. Was that the only encounter you had over the next month or so? JUDGE OLDER: Yes, then in February the 3rd squadron was sent down to Loiwing which is in Burma, but it is on the China-Burma border. It's about 60 miles north of Lashio, Burma. It sits in a valley surrounded by some pretty good mountains, had just a dirt airstrip, but it was adequate, in fact two of them. It was kind of an X shaped field, but we only used one of them for landing and take-offs. We had a lot of good action at Loiwing. FRANK BORING: Let's hold in for a second. Is that making too much noise. It is now. FRANK BORING: If you could tell us about some of the incidents that happened around the Loiwing area. �JUDGE OLDER: Loiwing was the site of a little aircraft factory that Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company had. They weren't doing anything at that time, but they had previously just assembled aircraft for the Chinese. And there was clubhouse up on the hill which had a dining hall in it. We lived in, I don't really recall very much about the places we lived. They were adequate. The airfield was good. One of the problems with Loiwing is, as time went on, the Chinese warning net disintegrated as the Japs moved north in Burma and southern China. So the warning got less and less until it dissolved completely. And that was the only place we were ever surprised by the Japs either in the air or the ground, was at Loiwing. One morning I was riding down the runway in a jeep with Tex Hill right at dawn just at that moment 20 Jap fighter came in over the mountains to the east, we had all of our aircraft lined up we didn't disperse them for two reasons, one there wasn't much of a place to disperse them , we could spread them out a little more, but the main reason we didn't disperse them was because of the lack of warning and we wanted to be able to get those things in the air as fast as possible for what little warning there was. Well, on this day there wasn't any. They came in and strafe up and down and shot up a good number of the aircraft. I think they only destroyed one or two, but they damaged a lot of them. That, as I say, is the only time that we ever surprised either on the ground or in the air. We always saw them first in the air and that makes a big difference, believe me. We could hear them talking on the radio in the air occasionally. We maintained air silence. But we could tune a frequency and hear the Japanese aircraft talking to each other and get a pretty good idea from the volume about how far away they were. Whether, couldn't pin it down to last 100 yards, but you could get a good idea of whether they were in the immediate vicinity or some distance away. I think the Japanese probably felt so good over that one dawn raid where they caught us on the ground that they came in a few days later with 20 more fighters, but his was during daytime only this time we had some warning and were sitting up waiting for them and I believe we shot down about 11 out of the 20 most of them within sight of the airfield. �And that was the last time they tried that. That was the day, I believe when it stared out badly for me. I ran out and jumped in my airplane, took off and just as the wheel were coming up I remembered that I hadn't turned the oxygen on. The oxygen bottle was in the baggage compartment in the fuselage, inaccessible from the cockpit. Because the bottles had a tendency to leak and we didn't have much in the way of supplies we turned the valve off on the ground and we left the baggage door propped open to remind us when we ran out on a scramble, if the door was open that would remind us to turn the valve on. Well, on this particular day that door was down and in the excitement I forgot all about the oxygen bottle until just as I was off the ground. Then I had to make a fast decision because I had no way of knowing whether the Japs were just about to come over the hill with 20 fighters again or whether I had 5 minutes or half hour. So I had to decide whether I had to go without oxygen or go around, circle around, land, get out or have the crew man run out and turn the oxygen on. So I finally decided I wouldn't be much good at altitudes without oxygen I'd have to take the chance. And I'm telling you that was a ride I don't want to do again that long circle, getting back in, getting stopped and looking over your shoulder and trying to fly the airplane at the same time wondering if you were going to get shot down in the landing pattern or on the ground. But fortunately I got off. And because of that I got separated and I never did join up with the main flight and later on Duke Headman joined up on my wing. And I decided that I was I was going to head out toward Thailand to see if we could pick up anybody. So we went out about, I don't know about 60 miles didn't see a thing. We were flying at 10,000 under a broken cloud layer and so I decided I'd turn around and come back and as we were coming back I look out in the distance ahead of us and I can see this plane coming. It looks to me like a radial engine. Which meant Japanese, because all of our fighters were in line engines. We were on the same level and probably… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 5 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older describes how it felt to shoot down enemy aircraft and his focus on survival, in addition to the types of planes that he fought. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bdf513e82be4d121a96714a1fff724c9.mp4 d5eb17dccd57734967143167a8ec3f09 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f923239a210bd1c8641e7636af5e1492.pdf 6830159a76308083191c4205e9cba822 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: At this point if we could talk about the training from a different perspective. See the crashes and perhaps the injuries and fatalities what kind of effect that had on you? JUDGE OLDER: By the time I arrived in Rangoon two of the pilots had already been killed in an accident. I think it was in one accident, I'm not sure. I think it was a mid-air collision. And one was killed while I was at Toungoo - that was Pete Atkinson. He was up on an early morning test flight went into a dive and from about 10,000 feet the Curtis Electric propeller ran away and it just I never heard such a horrible sound come out of an engine airplane as that one was. And it finally just blew engine up and he went straight in. I did know Pete, but not well he was in one of the other squadrons. I just knew him as an acquaintance. Well, it has a very strong effect on you and it certainly made me realize that I didn't want to put a P40 in that situation where that could happen. FRANK BORING: Once the training was over with what's the next stage, what was the next step that you took? Where did you go? JUDGE OLDER: The next thing that happened at Toungoo as our training there was pretty much completed and we were about to be sent up to China. I went up one day on a test flight and when I came back down I saw a group of people huddled together talking over by the hanger. I �got out of the airplane wandered over there and I began to pick up fragments of conversation about Pearl Harbor, Japanese, and I couldn't understand what they were talking about. I finally got one of them aside I said what's going on, he said the Japs have attack Pearl Harbor. FRANK BORING: We're going to have to start -- I liked that whole approach that you had the beginning was very good. Test plane, then landing and seeing the huddle that's very good. Begin from the beginning. JUDGE OLDER: After we had trained in Toungoo for a couple of months now we're talking about early December, first week in December. I was up on a test flight and when I came back down and landed taxied up and parked it I noticed a group of people standing over by the hanger talking. Looked kind of unusual, I never saw any groups like that before standing and talking like that before. So I went over there and I started picking up fragments of conversation Pearl Harbor, Japanese and other things. So I got one of the people aside and said what's going on? What are you talking about? They said the Japs have just attacked Pearl Harbor. Well, of course, that changed everything. We suppose to, our squadron, the 3rd squadron, was supposed to go on up to Kunming, China with the other two squadrons. After December 7th, which was December 8th in Burma, they decided to send the 3rd squadron to Rangoon and send the other two squadrons up to Kunming. So in due course we went down to Rangoon. I think we probably got down there somewhere around the 20th of December? FRANK BORING: What did you find when you arrived there? Not just the atmosphere the other, pilots, crew, what was the mood like? JUDGE OLDER: The mood was one of great anticipation. We anticipated that we were going to be getting into combat very shortly we were considered about the lack warning, we were concerned about the size of the enemy force what it might be and the composition of it. We were working with the British there, the British RAF had a �squadron of Brewster Buffalos and they had a squadron of Hurricanes. We didn't know exactly how we would be working with them in air combat if at all whether they would be operating separately or what the situation would be so it was a period of great anticipation. FRANK BORING: Now thru that entire time period, December, the anticipation was building but nothing actually broke until I believe around the 23rd. Could you tell us about the day when things really started to happen? JUDGE OLDER: Well, the first alert we got at Rangoon occurred about the 21st or 22nd I believe. It turned out that it was a false alert, but everybody would scramble off and it was a melee in the air, because it was the first time thing were pretty well disorganized and we ended up scaring each other I think more than the enemy would have scared us, by near misses, mid-air collisions and everything else. It was just, you know, the first time and we didn't know what to expect, we didn't where they were coming from, we didn't know how many there would be, if they did come and so on. We had a good session afterwards, debriefing on the ground about how now to kill each other. So when the first real alert came, which was on December 23rd, we were much more prepared for it. It so happened I had the day off on that day with Ed Overend and we had planned bicycle into Rangoon and look around and do some shopping and as we were bicycling off the base we heard the engines starting up and first we heard the RAF go off and then we heard the P-40's go off. I turned to Ed and I said Ed, there's something going on. Let's get back there. So we went back to the field and there were just 2 P-40's sitting on the field and nobody around that I could see. We bicycled over there and found a crew man and said what's wrong with these airplanes, he said, nothing. I said, Ed let's go flying. So we jumped in the P-40's and headed east and got out to about 8,000 feet we finally joined up with a flight turned out it was a flight that McMillan, George McMillan was leading and there were only 4 in that flight so we joined up with �that flight. We got up to about 8,000 feet and still going east toward the Gulf of Martaban. I looked up ahead and at about 11,000 I could see this huge formation. It looked to me like a huge formation of twin engines bombers and up behind that maybe another 1,000 feet or so looked like about 20 or 30 fighters maneuvering around. It was hard to believe at first, here they are, this is the enemy. You don't have to wait any longer, they're here. So, we started making attacks we had an altitude disadvantage of about 3,000 feet so we had to climb up and they were heading into toward Mingaladon, this particular group. Turns out there was another group down sough going into Rangoon. I decided the best way to attack before they got to the airfield probably the only way to attack before they got to the airfield because of our altitude disadvantage was to climb up directly underneath the formation and try to stay out of the range of their bottom guns by coming in sharply, steeply, underneath and making the attacks that way and then going diving out to the side and coming back and doing the same thing again. So that's what I did. I got the leader of the formation of this particular 27 plane formation. I saw the bomb bay doors open as I was underneath. So I knew they were getting close they were on their initial point for their bomb run. And on this particular pass that I made it just blew the whole bottom out of the airplane, debris was showering down and I got out of the way and as he rolled over as the leader rolled over and went out the wing man on the right side just slide over and took the lead. It was just like mechanical precision. There was no delay, no confusion on the Japs parts they just continued on toward Mingaladon Airdrome. And then on another pass I got another one and by that time I was running low on ammunition and we got separated in the fight as usual and I came back and circled around awhile to see what was going on and finally came in and landed. They'd bombed the airfield the runway was full of holes. But there were places to land. FRANK BORING: That was excellent, that whole [?] talking with, heard this about the Japanese pilots before and this is what I found afterwards. �JUDGE OLDER: Yeah, Ok. JUDGE OLDER: I had heard in our training that the Japanese pilots were pretty mechanical in the sense that they always reacted pretty much the same way to a situation whether it called for it or not. I didn't really find that to be true, I think they were very well disciplined, particularly the bomber formations, but the fighters that I engaged later on other missions I found them to be very resourceful. They were good pilots and they made the most of what they had. FRANK BORING: How about before you were even trained? When you were in the States, when you were in the military for example, what was your impression about the Japanese Air Force at that time? JUDGE OLDER: When I was in the States before I went with the AVG I really didn't have any impression as to what kind pilots the Japanese were or what kind of aircraft they were flying except in a vague way. FRANK BORING: After that initial encounter in which you had shot down 2 bombers and the rest of the group came back what was the mood of the group, and ground crews as well as the pilots themselves. Specifically, you, as to that encounter? JUDGE OLDER: When I finally got back on the ground after the first fight, of course, I was looking around to see who else was there and who was missing, what damage had been done to the airfield. We still had a number of pilots that hadn't landed yet and I, of course, had no way of knowing what had happened to them, or whether they would return. Most of them did. Although the 3rd Squadron lost 2 pilots on that first mission, Neal Martin and Hank Gilbert. I was not in the flight they were in so I had no idea at that time what happened to them. I believe there were some other pilots missing that turned up later. I know Ed Overend was missing on either that or the next mission, Paul Green got shot down on that mission and bailed out. I understand from him that strafed him on the way down or tried to. So it was a scene of great tension and excitement, �wonder, and doubt as to outcome of a lot of these things when I finally got back on the ground. The British had suffered some severe losses, both in their aircraft and on the ground. They had been bombed pretty heavily, some people killed on the ground. So it was very tension-full day shall we say. FRANK BORING: How much did you rely on the training that Chennault had given you on that actually first combat? Did it come back to you or did. The actual training that you had how much did you rely on? JUDGE OLDER: We relied on Chennault's training in our combats I found that when you get into combat the best laid plans of mice and men don't always work out the way you start out. For one thing you usually get the formations broken up pretty quickly and you may still have your wing man with you but you may have lost the rest of the flight. Sometimes the wing man gets separated and you're on your own. And that happened in both the engagements at Rangoon. We started out in the six plane flights, two plane elements, but they were soon broken up because of the way combat developed. And I think that was true everywhere. So can't fly around in combat in formation. It's just not possible. But at least you can start out that way and get an advantage because of the way you've operated and were you are and your altitude, speed and so on. FRANK BORING: What were the next few days like towards the end of December into January? Were there any more encounters or…? JUDGE OLDER: Yes, the Japanese, I guess it was Tokyo Rose on the night of December 23rd after the first combat when we had shot down. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 4 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older describes the effect the injuries and fatalities during AVG flight training and the news of Pearl Harbor had on him while preparing for combat. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f17957150064f7a35ccfb4bb947d356.mp4 76d0ca9a0f077bf2a10b137b0e06fd6e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c0b3c5afa85a468b82c04e278a35824c.pdf 695a615e19ed4a6c3e039d60bca4423e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: Would you tell us about the person you was eventually known as Fearless Freddie? JUDGE OLDER: One of my barracks mates in the 3rd Squadron was Fred Hodges who early acquired the name of Fearless Freddie because of his great fear of insects or anything that crawled. And Burma was the wrong place to be for Fearless Freddie I can tell you that. One night when we were coming back from the mess hall, a couple of us decided that we would exploit the insect life of Burma at Freddie's expense by taking a one of their June bugs which is about the size of a golf ball and tying a string around its leg and hanging it down from the wire that holds the mosquito netting up on his bed. Of course we went back first and he was still there, at the mess hall, so we got in a turned the lights out and waited to see what would happen. Freddie came in and started to get undressed in the dark and this June bug kept hitting him in the face and he didn't know what it was and he just kind of brushed it out of the way. Finally he got a flashlight and he flashed the light on this thing, well, he went crazy. He ran over and got a ball bat in the corner started yelling, well, he almost tore the barracks down trying to kill that June bug. (laughter) �FRANK BORING: If we could now go into, after the first night give us an idea of what your first duties were. First routine that started to settle in, idea of what the camp was like, the base was like, and who you met at that time. JUDGE OLDER: The Toungoo base consisted of a number of separate buildings, the barracks, each squadron had a different barracks. There was separate mess hall, there was a separate dispensary or minor hospital. Of course there were the hangers down on the flight line or one hanger actually. This was a little RAF base that they had turned over to us for our use. Our first routine, course outside of sleeping and eating, was to go to ground school. There we got the operational manuals for the P40 and some data on the specs of the P40 before we checked out because none of the Marines of course had flown P40. They didn't have P40 in the Marine Corps and I don't think most of the other AVG pilots had ever flown a P40 some of them may have a few of them. So that was the first order of business was get checked out in the airplane. And the second order of business was the morning ground school that Chennault gave every morning after breakfast starting at about something like 7 in the morning. Where he would give us all of his knowledge that he had acquired about the Japanese Air Force during the last five years that he had been in China. And he, from time to time, would bring in Chinese Air Force pilots that had fought against the Japanese and we would get their first hand impressions of the Japanese aircraft and tactics, the good points the bad points. Chennault had obtained from somewhere captured Japanese aircraft I guess the operational manuals for many of their aircraft and even some of their strategic plans in general. So we spent our time learning as much of this as we could and of course he would lecture to us on his theories of air combat, fighter tactics and so on. FRANK BORING: Let's go back to the first time you actually encountered Chennault. The first time you saw him. Would you give us your first impressions of what he looked like to you? �JUDGE OLDER: Well, the first time I saw Chennault I don't recall now exactly where in Toungoo it was, it could have been in the mess hall early one morning, or maybe it was the ground school. But I was immediately impressed with his physical appearance. Because he had one of the most rugged lookin' faces you'll ever see on an individual. In fact I think it was Winston Churchill saw Chennault somewhere at one their meetings and his remark was "I'm glad he's on our side." And that just exactly the impression that you got when you saw him, he was just a rugged lookin' guy and his face was weather-beaten. It looked like it had been hanging out of a cockpit in the slipstream for the last 20 years. It was like a piece of leather. He had dark piercing eyes, very friendly, but extremely determined appearance. Absolutely dedicated to defeating the Japanese. That came thru after you'd talked to him for a few minutes. There was no doubt about where he was and where he was going. FRANK BORING: You had already been thru a great deal of pilot training, you'd gone thru all the different steps where you could have faltered at any time, but you graduated. You made it all the way out there. I'd like your evaluation from the student's point of view if you will or the experience pilot point of view of Chennault as teacher he was telling you different tactics about the Japanese and different tactics that perhaps you had heard before. What was your evaluation, did you have any confidence in this man that he was going to be able to teach you something that you were going to need to know. JUDGE OLDER: Yes, I had a great deal of confidence in General Chennault's ability to teach us fighter tactics and to teach us about the Japanese. Two things you needed to know in addition to being able to handle your own airplane. The first thing he did, or one of the first things he did was to get us away from the old three plane formation that we had been flying in the States and get us into 2 plane elements and 6 plane flights. The reason for this was to increase the flexibility, instead of flying tight formation you had elements of two planes where they were, the wing man was out a bit so he had some �flexibility of movement and the elements were staggered back, one on each side of the lead element and with the idea that the rear element would probably be the what we called the tail end Charlie and weave back and forth. Of course everybody had to keep their eyes open for the enemy that was number one. But usually you'd like to have a weaver element back there to do a little more looking. So that was a novel introduction to combat formation that we hadn't had before and I think everybody agreed that that was a big improvement over what we had been doing in the States. FRANK BORING: Could you also elaborate to us about another technique he talked about rather than dogfighting with the Japanese airplane there was a technique of going up to I believe it is 20,000 feet and coming down. How did you react to that? Could you explain that to us? JUDGE OLDER: I don't know what you're talking about. FRANK BORING: OK the traditional method of fighting as I understood it at that point was just to dogfight ‘em. JUDGE OLDER: Of course Chennault taught us the respective characteristics of our aircraft and the Japanese aircraft. And of course we found out first hand after flying our P40 what the characteristics were of them. One of the things that he stressed was don't try to get into a turning combat with the Japs fighters because they could turn way inside of you and they are more maneuverable Our number one advantage was first speed, the ability to get up high and to make the Japs fight our way. Use the strong points of the P40 to select the methods of combat rather than letting the Japanese decide how the combat was going to be fought. So these were all things we worked on and all made sense and worked out as it turned out when we did get into combat. FRANK BORING: Let's go into the actual training period now where the different pilots were checking out on the P40. Could you give any comments from your own perspective of your own ability to deal �with the P40 and perhaps your observation of what was going on with the other pilots. JUDGE OLDER: When we checked out on the P40 at Toungoo I found that it was a good airplane, I liked the P40, it was a good airplane. Of course everything has to placed into the context of its times. It wasn't as good as the P51, but there weren't any P-51's then. They didn't come out until a couple of years later. It had you can always use more power, but it had adequate power. It had good speed, we could get it up to about 27,000 which was adequate. It was reasonably maneuverable, it was very rugged, could have used more fight power. The early P-40B's only had two 50 calibers and four 30 calibers in the wings. Two 50's in the nose and four in the wings, 30 calibers in the wings and the 30's were virtually useless. The 50 calibers would be the guns that did damage. Later on of course the P51 had six 50 calibers machine guns, three in each wing and a P47 had eight, four in each wing. FRANK BORING: Stop here. Do you need some water? JUDGE OLDER: Yeah, that wouldn't be a bad idea. FRANK BORING: You've gone into the characteristics of the P40 what I'm looking for now is your first experience with flying it and then your observation of how the other pilots were dealing with the P40. Do you see what I'm trying to get at? It's more in terms of the airplane you [?] flying it and then watching how the other guys were doing? Because some of them didn't handle it very well, there was some crashes and at one time as I understand it Chennault even got very upset grounded everybody. Because he said he thought you should go back to school and learn how to use these things. JUDGE OLDER: I can remember my first flight in the P40 very well because you always remember the first flight in any airplane--it's strange, it's different, you're not sure what the feels going to be and it takes a while to get used to it. I liked the P40 very much. It handled very �well. The most difficult part was on the landing, roll, where you had to be on your toes every minute to keep it under control down the runway and not end up in a ground loop. Unfortunately, a number of the pilots who had not been familiar with fighters and some it turned out had never flown fighters before had trouble with the P40. Mostly because of a tendency to ground loop and let it get away from them on the landings. So you had to be very careful on that. I didn't see any bad characteristics at all. FRANK BORING: Let's look at the daily life, if you will, during this period of time. Part of the time you're flying as you said there is eating there is sleeping of course. I guess we are looking for some of other aspects. How did you get around? Did you have jeeps? Did you have trucks? How was the daily life? JUDGE OLDER: Our mode of transportation at Toungoo for the individual, was bicycles. There were a few automobiles, staff cars, maybe a jeep or two, but mostly it was just bicycles. We bought the bicycles in town, in Toungoo, and another standard item for everybody at Toungoo were boots. Leather boots. We'd go into town and they had a very simple method of fitting you. You put your foot down on a piece of paper and draw around it with a pencil and got a perfect fit for your custom made boot. Bicycles were used for everything. FRANK BORING: What was the food like, conditions, what did you do for entertainment? What did you do to relax? These sorts of things. JUDGE OLDER: Our entertainment at Toungoo consisted mostly of athletics in the afternoon when it was too hot to fly. We did most of our flying in the morning because by 11 o'clock in the morning the wing of that airplane was hot enough to fry an egg on. It just got too hot after that. And in the afternoon we played baseball, later in the afternoon it cooled down a little bit, baseball, badminton, playing cards, cribbage, poker, red dog anything that happened to come up. That was about it. There really wasn't, we'd take little side trips �out. I remember one trip we took out to I guess it is the Sittang River which is east of Toungoo out into the jungle. And it was very interesting. I saw some elephants out there carrying logs, teak logs. And we took little side trips into Toungoo and bicycle up and down the road this way and that way. FRANK BORING: Where there any people there that stuck out particularly? You mentioned earlier that you had heard about Olga Greenlaw, there was also the doctor, nurses there? JUDGE OLDER: Yes, we had two doctors and a dentist and two nurses. They were all great people and of course we got to know them very well because we were all living in close proximity there in Toungoo. FRANK BORING: Was there anybody that stuck out the people that you like, dislike or example Harvey Greenlaw was some people had very strong opinions about. I'm just wondering if you could comment on some of the people. JUDGE OLDER: Harvey Greenlaw was the executive officer and he had I believe he was a West Point officer if I remember correctly. He had gotten out of the service one way or another I forgot now what his career had been in between. But he ended up as the executive officer of the AVG. He was a very likeable guy. He had he was controversially in some respects I think some of the people didn't care for him too much, but I always liked him. And I mentioned his wife, Olga, before. She was a very interesting gal nice looking gal. I think she was either Russian or part Russian. They were a strange couple, they were very unlike each other. I remember one story they tell about Olga and Harvey they were in India someplace I think, I think it was in Delhi one time having one of their usual martial disputes and they came to the top of this marble staircase and Olga just nudged Harvey with her foot down this marble stair case. But most of time they seemed to get along. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 3 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older discusses his first duties at their base in Toungoo, in addition to his first impressions of General Chennault and his training methods. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/406bad4cf4ff604cdc460e9375b89137.mp4 983fb6b349ec2cfe1241fcb331da0dec https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ccfa4b3fac39eb59bc3026ae54d90403.pdf 99f667f57b5e24faab5ad57071771aca PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Judge” Older Date of interview: April 26, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to meeting this bunch of guys from all over the country? How did you react to that? JUDGE OLDER: Well, it was in Los Angeles when I first met the group that was going on our ship to Burma. They were a great bunch of guys. They were from all three of the services, Marine Corp, Navy, at that time the Army Air Corp. We were all volunteers, we all knew why we were there. We all wanted to be there. We were all going in the same direction for the same purpose it was a very close knit organization. FRANK BORING: There was, at the time, implied to you that this trip was supposed to be kept secret, somewhat. Your passports shows you to be some rather creative occupations. Wonder if you could comment on that? JUDGE OLDER: Yes, we all had to have passports. My passport said I was a writer. The other passports all indicated strange occupations that had nothing to do with being a fighter pilots or members of ground crews and it was secret mission at time. And this was before Pearl Harbor. We left the States, I left, I think it was August 26, 1941 from Wilmington. There was some problem in Honolulu about some of the people talking in a bar. I don't know what it was they were alleged to have said. As we pulled out of Honolulu late one afternoon, headed for the Philippines a couple of the ground crew, �I think jumped off the back of the boat and the Coast Guard had to come out and pick them out and deliver them back to the boat. I don't know what they thought they'd left in Honolulu, but that was a strange incident that I never did learn the reason for. FRANK BORING: What was the trip over like? I mean in terms of the routine, in terms of fellow passengers, in terms of friendship you may have made at that time. JUDGE OLDER: Well, I was rooming, the cabin that I was in I was with Frank Swartz. FRANK BORING: We have to wait for Jake. JUDGE OLDER: Was he getting in the picture? FRANK BORING: No, No scratching. I think we hurt his feeling. JUDGE OLDER: No, no he's all right. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of what it was like to be on the boat? Any of the friendship you may have formed. The fellow passengers other than AVG and incidences that might have happened. JUDGE OLDER: There were six on the boat, six AVG pilots: Tom Haywood, Kenny Jernstedt, myself, Frank Swartz, Bill Bartling and Johnny Farrell. I knew all of them except Bartling and Farrell before. Even though Bartling went to Pensacola, I don't think I had ever met him before. Farrell was from the Army Air Corp. The rest were ground crew, there were also some passengers. There was a group of missionaries going back to the Far East including two young missionary daughters, they were French, French missionaries. We got to know these people fairly well. Oh, probably no more than 3 or 4 other passengers that I can remember outside of the missionary group. And we had a lot of fun. We spent most of the day out in the deck chairs reading books, I remember I was reading �Inside Asia by John Gunther to try to get a little background on Southeast Asia. Other than that it was just lazy days in the sun crossing the ocean. The nights were interesting because we were running blacked out and occasionally they would sight another ship off somewhere and had no way of knowing whether it was even though we were not yet at war, the news reports that we were getting indicated that the Japanese were sending about 20,000 troops a week into Indo-China. We knew they weren't going down there to for a picnic and it was just a question of time before that erupted in that area. So everybody was of course Japan was a member of the axis powers, along with Germany and Italy and even though Japan was not at war at that moment except with China, everybody was concern with what could happen. So the ship ran blacked out and it was zig zag occasionally when it spotted another ship, but other than that there were no incidents. FRANK BORING: How about the stopovers in various places? Did you get a chance to go ashore? JUDGE OLDER: Oh, yes, we had a great day in Honolulu. Kenny Jernstedt, Tom Haywood and I rented a car some nice lady was the driver and drove us around Oahu. We had a couple of days or more in Manilla. Interesting town, city, big city. FRANK BORING: I guess what I am looking for is that you are an American, grew up in America, gone to the Far East for adventures and everything, what was the first impression with coming into an Asian country? What was is there a culture shock involved? Was there something very exciting about it? If you could just describe what it was like to first arrive on Asian shores. JUDGE OLDER: Well, I'd say it was very exciting, colorful. I was impressed with the tremendous number of people in many of these places and the strange customs they had the strange way doing things. Very exciting. �FRANK BORING: What would you say amongst this trip before you arrived at your destination, which one was the one that stuck out the most. JUDGE OLDER: I think the most exciting place on the trip over was Singapore. Because it was one of the great British colony cities, one of crossroads of the world. Of course the famous Raffles Hotel was in full sway at that time. It was a very interesting place. FRANK BORING: Can you tell us more about the Raffles Hotel. JUDGE OLDER: Well, the Raffles, they had a big bar which was as you walked into the place they had the cocktail bar type of thing that we think of in the States, but it was a large room that did have a bar, but many tables and very tropical looking type of atmosphere. The Hotel itself was very nice. It was just about everything you would expect to see having read about it, you know, was glamorous place. A lot of interesting, glamorous people staying there. FRANK BORING: I guess what we are looking for one person with a dream or idea is one thing but when you get two close buddies to talk about it just seems to grow. The excitement grows and it makes it even more real. Three guys, but when we interviewed Ken it really came out that there was this really close friendship being bonded at the time which lead to talk about it, what was the sense of excitement, somehow communicate that sense of excitement. JUDGE OLDER: Excuse me, but are we talking about on the trip over or— FRANK BORING: Yeah, that's when you guys had a lot to time to talk, right? and to I'm not talking about once you arrived there, I guess I'm looking for that beginning stages of friendship developing and the types of things you talked about because that will lead us into what you actually found when you got there. JUDGE OLDER: Well, my closest friends on the trip going over of course were Tom Haywood and Kenny Jernstedt because we all served together in �the Marine Fighter Squadron since leaving Pensacola. I guess we probably spent the most time together on the ship because of that. We talked frequently on the ship about where we were going and what it was going to look like and what we were going to be doing, and what kinds of aircraft the Japs were flying, what kind of facilities the AVG would have, where we would be based, terrain. I remember talking about what I had read in Gunther's book that about the snakes in Southeast Asia, the cobras, and the crates, and the Russells vipers. You know all this was very exciting and glamorous. I think I read that there were over 20,000 people a year killed by snake bites in South East Asia which seemed incredible to me. But I think that number was not far off when you take in all of the countries in South East Asia. And we also when we got to Burma, Toungoo had a show put on for us by some snake charmers, King Cobras, which was extremely interesting. FRANK BORING: So you had a chance to talk the three of you about what you expected. Could you now describe for us what you actually found when you arrived in Burma. JUDGE OLDER: We arrived in Rangoon I think it was October 8th or 10th and it was a bustling port. Rangoon doesn't sit right on the Bay of Bengal you have to go up I think the Rangoon River for about 40 miles which is a very wide river like an estuary. Then you finally come to the big city of Rangoon, and it is a large city, very exotic. The thing you see about Rangoon from about 40 miles away is great Shwedagon Pagoda. Which is the largest pagoda in the world I believe. It's gold covered and supposedly encrusted with jewels at the top and that stands out like a beacon as you're coming up the river into Rangoon. Then we started having the ship unloaded and I can remember I had a trunk, a small trunk, but very heavy. I had everything in it including some guns and ammunition, clothes and everything. I could hardly lift one end of it. These three fellows came aboard and two of the large fellows picked this truck up and they set it on the back of this kind of old wizened man, Burmese man, and he grabbed it over his shoulder , the handles and �staggered off the boat with this trunk of mine. I remember really feeling sorry for this fellow. Well, then we checked into the Strand Hotel , that was a very nice hotel, right on very close to the water. And spent a few days there some of the people came down from Toungoo. One of my classmates at Pensacola, Noel Bacon came down and I asked him what we could expect up there and he told us a few of the things. One of things that always stuck out in my mind he described of course Chennault and Harvey Greenlaw, who was the executive officer and he described Olga Greenlaw who was Harvey's wife I think she was part Russian. He described her as being very glamorous so forth and at one point I asked him I said, Noel, what kind of a gal is this Olga and he thought for a minute and then he said well, she's the kind of a woman who would make a dog break its chain. I didn't know what he had in mind it was a very picturesque description. And she was an unusual woman. FRANK BORING: Where was your next stop then? JUDGE OLDER: After a few days in Rangoon we got on a train and headed for Toungoo which is about 120 miles northeast of Rangoon. Rained the entire trip. All I saw was flooded rice paddies and rain out the train window. I was beginning to think I should have gone into seaplanes instead of fighters. We finally got into Toungoo in the early evening and they had gathered together a little native band about a 6 piece band that was standing on station as we got off the train and they were playing, "There will be a hot time in the old town tonight". Of course all the people on the base were down there to welcome us. It was a very joyful welcome. Then we proceed over to our base at, this little RAF airfield, which is called Kyedaw. Checked into our barracks and there we were. FRANK BORING: Let's take a look at the barracks at the first time you saw it. You talked about what to except when you got there and perhaps had some advance notice. What did you feel like the first time you walked into those barracks? �JUDGE OLDER: I felt like I was in the tropics. The barracks were... the first time I got into the barracks I felt like I was in the tropics, for sure. Because of the way they were constructed for one thing. They were kind of bamboo and thatch and heavy thatch roof and bamboo rafters and studs and so forth and wood floor. Beds were lined up on both sides with an aisle down the middle. Everybody had a big mosquito net which was folded up on top in the day time and dropped down at night because no one would think about sleeping without a mosquito net at night. Now just to keep the mosquito out, but to keep out some of the other things that were crawling around. As a matter of fact at night you could take a flashlight when the lights were out and flash it up into the pointed roof and see the light reflecting off eyes of all the things that were up there. When you went out to the latrine or outside for anything you'd take a ball, bat or a stick with you. One of the other squadrons I think they killed a cobra in the shower and I ran over a crate one night on my bicycle coming back from the movie theatre to the barracks. It was not a place to wander around by yourself at night without a light and something to strike back with. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Older_Judge_1991-04-26_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Charles Older Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-26 Title A name given to the resource Charles Older interview (video and transcript, 2 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Older by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Older trained as a pilot in Long Beach and Pensacola, earning his Navy wings in 1940. He then served in the Marine Fighting Squadron One and was qualified in gunnery, dive bombing, and carrier landings. Older joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in August 1941 and sailed to Burma. He served as a Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels," and participated in the squadron's first combat over Rangoon where he downed two enemy aircraft. By the time the AVG disbanded in 1942, he had 10 total victories. After leaving the AVG, Older joined the US Army Air Forces and returned to China in 1944 with the 23rd Fighter Group. After the war, Older left the Air Force as a Lt. Col. and earned a law degree from the University of Southern California. He practiced law until becoming a superior court judge for Los Angeles. In the 1970s, he gained notoriety for presiding over the Charles Manson murder trials. In this tape, Older describes his experience meeting the other members of the AVG, their journey overseas to Rangoon, and the train ride to their barracks in Toungoo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng