372 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81100e2a8e4baed52130447ea43e8744.mp4 b20525354c75a0f82ffd9e341180cba3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b5dba19c8fde8253c535f853153e5fa0.pdf 020168dcd62294edf50b3010c7f72eb2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah Date of Interview: 03-24-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: If we could begin, Ambassador, with your background before you entered the Military? KONSIN SHAH: When Japan invaded China, I was in college studying electronic engineering. And I was in Shanghai. And then Japan bombed and I thought terrible holocaust in my people and so, I wanted to join the Air Force. But then, I was the only son of a widow, the Military thought they could exempt me but then I got my mother's consent to join. And then I left Shanghai by way of Hong Kong, Hanoi, and then to go to the Aviation School. But then the Aviation school did not fly me because the Aviation school had provisions that only sons do not fly. And so I joined the Army. The Army had no prescriptions. And I was trained in pack. But after the battle of Kwin Kwan [?], then the Air Force changed, their personnel, their regulation and they said that only sons could fly, but only with parental condoned. And my mother wrote to the Chief of the Air Force that she allowed me to fly. When I was in Yunnanyi, we had, Yunnanyi was attacked by the Japanese bombers and the pursuit planes stationed in Thailand and our airplanes were burnt. We were without airplane and without gasoline. And we flew maybe 2 hours of 3 hours a week and down to 20 minutes a week. We could have been trained as pilots in a year or more, but it took 3 �years. But then as I was graduating, the American Lend Lease came into effect. And I was the third group to leave for America. And I thought the American volunteer group landed in Mitna [?], in Yunnanyi. And I was the supervisor of daily Routine and we welcomed them to a feast. Then we were on our way to India and flew to the United States. But I was kept as an instructor, teaching mainly Chinese cadets and sort of American cadets, because at that time I had the instrument instructor’s qualification. Then the American pilots which the American pilots does not have, I checked out the Chinese and American students to fly an instrument toward the last year I thought that the war was going ahead very well. We were terribly afraid that we could not join combat. We will be skipping combat. FRANK BORING: If you would, I realize this is somewhat painful for you, but if you could recall your personal recollection of the bombing of Shanghai, anytime you're ready. FRANK BORING: If you could recall the first bombings of Shanghai? KONSIN SHAH: I think it was on August 13 and the Japanese bombers came from aircraft carrier or they had come from Taiwan. And they indiscriminately bombed the housing. And Shanghai is a very densely populated area and one bomb claimed hundreds or teams of hundreds of lives, and so the terror created in the population is vast. And they think the terror could make us surrender, but no, the leaders of the nation were determined to fight to the end. FRANK BORING: Did you walk through the city after the bombing itself? KONSIN SHAH: Sure. FRANK BORING: What did you see? �KONSIN SHAH: I, at first, I thought the Shanghai people instituted fight the aggression team, and I was a student. I, at the age of 17, I was able to drive and one fellow student and I drove toward dusk from the international quarters, then we delivered the Shanghai people called the comforting goods, food, clothing and particularly this was in September and October, they, the vest that keep the soldiers warm before daybreak, bring back the wounded soldiers, into the international area. And then we would be able to [?] that the people's homes and that they are indiscriminately bombed. This was behind the front line. Because the line is in the bund but after the bund the Japanese bombers, got too terrible, terrible, for me. I saw this day to day. And then I decided to join the Air Force regardless, they take me or not. FRANK BORING: As an eye witness, any of your memories of the bombing itself, your own personal, one of the things that somebody said, this feeling of watching the bombs drop, and the explosion, if you could describe in your own words, eye witness to this? KONSIN SHAH: When in Shanghai, we travelled at night, to the war zones and the bombing we escaped, but in the interior, 1927, 1928, I saw a great deal of bombing, particularly in Hong Yau [?], I was in the railway station, waiting for a train, then the Jing bow sounded, and I ran only a hundred yards or two hundred yards before the bombs exploded. Right in the railway yard, but then after several hours of repairs, the train pulled though, where I saw the corpse even laid beheaded. There was too much damage done. And they take time to clean the past. FRANK BORING: What was your personal reaction to witnessing all of this? As a Chinese person, what was your reaction? KONSIN SHAH: The hatred is never, never retired. �FRANK BORING: Did you feel that you had some outlet that you could do something about it? How did you think you were going to write this wrong? KONSIN SHAH: By joining the Air Force. The Air Force had rejected me at that time, 1927, 1928. And I was in army training for the tanks. But through our, the Army had trained the tank crew at their mechanized forces school and we travelled through Way Ning [?] and Diluto [?] and through that way I suffered a lot of bombing. This is the rail head and we suffered very much bombing. But I luckily escaped and each time if I had time, I joined the rescue crew but the train was waiting and got through and I had to take the train because I was under military orders. FRANK BORING: Could you describe your experience in the Army. KONSIN SHAH: Yes, in Nu Do, our buildings were scattered along the hillside and the bombing was rather difficult and we suffered the bombing very scarcely until the President [?] came to a conference and we students stood guard. And then the bombing, they had intelligence, and the bombing was suddenly through the vicinity. And our mechanized school students suffered 2 casualties. 2 deaths and a number of people wounded but I then called the Generalissimo to see. FRANK BORING: As a cadet, you were training in a war zone. KONSIN SHAH: Yes. FRANK BORING: If you could explain that please. KONSIN SHAH: When we were trained as an Army officer or an Air Force officer, we were trained in the war zone. We were in the thick of it. �FRANK BORING: What was your first encounter in the Army, what was your first encounter with the Japanese in battle? KONSIN SHAH: Kun Yin Guam [?] in the summer of 1940, I was a probation officer and we were taken to the two hundredth division, a mechanized division. And we were probation officers, we could look but couldn't fight. And then the Japanese were cut off from their supplies and then the Japanese conquered territories were recovered. We saw the prisoners taken and then we saw one prisoner who, when the Army cook, the prisoner was tied up, and the Army cook was going to look after him. And then the soldiers will take other prisoners. And on their way back the cook killed the man. And then he was court marshalled but then the hatred was tremendous. They would risk their lives by killing the Japanese. The officers had better sense but the men, they were deeply in hatred of the Japanese. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shah, Konsin C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 1 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah describes his background before becoming involved with the American Volunteer Group (AVG) and his experiences in Shanghai during the time of the bombings. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/98826c8a8d753d406d2f9bfbbe2de721.mp4 7f84a0ec9dd4a6ed95dd0b9958feda01 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/21d1103bceb8e53cd3ba12fa583eb562.pdf 5108283b6193b57fbb4c265808ef532b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Wilfred “Bill” Schaper Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: Tell us about the last days of the AVG before they asked you about the 2 weeks. What was morale like, what were you thinking about at that time? BILL SCHAPER: I never had a problem with morale, not myself. I get along with them all. When they asked for volunteers to stay another two weeks I volunteered. Chennault said he see that we got back, but you were on your own at that time. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of Chennault? BILL SCHAPER: I had no personal contact with him. Except to listen to him talk once in a while. You had to admire the old man, he was gutsy. FRANK BORING: Do you feel in any way that you were promised passage back and you didn't get that. BILL SCHAPER: That didn't bother me. FRANK BORING: Let me ask you what did you do after you got to India? You said you were… BILL SCHAPER: We caught a DC3 out of Kunming. It was an air transport it might have been CNAC I don't remember and got to Calcutta, I think I �stayed in Calcutta a week That film that I have I sent it was raw film at the time not processed I found out thru Kodak that I could send that to Bombay and pick it up in Bombay when I got to Bombay which was 2 weeks down the road. That's what I did. And when I got to Karachi, I got on board the Mariposa, went to Bombay, I went to the Kodak and the film was ready. We went to Cape Town, I think we were in Cape Town, one day, two days and then a week later in New York. FRANK BORING: How did it feel to be home? BILL SCHAPER: Let me tell you. When you see the Statute of Liberty for the first time it brings tears to your eyes after a year, year and a half. Later on I could recall that watching these people with no patriotism at all. They had no idea what a war was. I'm talking about civilians over here. It burned my ass believe me. FRANK BORING: How did people react to you being in the AVG when you got back? BILL SCHAPER: They gave us a hero’s welcome, we didn't have ticker tape parade. I got back, I was greeted in New York by Bob Neal he was already signed to fly with American Overseas which later became American Airlines. He offered me a job as a flight engineer on the boats between New York and England. I said no I'll take my chances and I went to work for Allison. Opportunity was a good word for Pratt & Whitney, right? Lockheed, but being from Chicago I went to Indianapolis and about that time we got married 1942. FRANK BORING: How did you react to the newspapers? BILL SCHAPER: They were always on your back. Guest appearances here and there, selling war bonds, you know. After about 2 weeks of that I went to work. �FRANK BORING: To wrap everything up I sort of like you to look back a bit. What do you feel you personally accomplished during that period of time? BILL SCHAPER: I saved a few bucks. Nothing, it was just a job as far as I was concerned. I don't go gun ho over heroics and all that. FRANK BORING: Let me ask you in a difference context, now that you are at this point in your life and you been to the [?] reunions and you've read the books whatnots and maybe even seen the John Wayne movie whatever. Where do you think personally AVG fits into all this? BILL SCHAPER: I've been told the AVG fits a piece of history - that's all. FRANK BORING: How do you personally react to that? BILL SCHAPER: I don't have any reaction for it either one way or the other. It just happened that's all. No difference than these kids in Saudi Arabia. It was an experience and you live through it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Schaper_Bill_1991-04-23_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Schaper, Wilfred E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Bill Schaper interview (video and transcript, 4 of 4), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Bill Schaper by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Bill Schaper was Crew Chief for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after serving in the US Army as a Staff Sergeant in the 77th Pursuit Squadron. It was his responsibility to maintain the aircrafts. In this tape, Schaper discusses discusses the last days of the AVG and his experience returning to the United States along with the hero's welcome they received. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9868e509d3643277ab54c065fae44541.mp4 bb3329d557c30d63191fe8f44b5c1dbe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8c2ad6cd67faa949bb15e0d406728d9e.pdf c77c0193381afb9f21cf2039596a6827 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Wilfred “Bill” Schaper Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] BILL SCHAPER: When Chennault asked me to take the convoy to Kunming whatever we could salvage out of Rangoon. I had a British driver with me and they gave us that, you saw that map I had, that was it. We were told to go a certain direction to avoid being ambushed. I don't know how long it took, it must have taken a week to get up there. That's the movies I got there, I took some pictures. Switch backs. FRANK BORING: Describe to us the roads and the conditions. Why don't you talk about the plane, okay? BILL SCHAPER: What, the Stinson 105? FRANK BORING: Yeah. BILL SCHAPER: I took that plane up. FRANK BORING: We don't know what plane that is. BILL SCHAPER: When we left Rangoon I had a Stinson 105 on the back of my truck. And we got it up to Kunming and after Kunming I ditched it in the woods. Figure that we'd get it flying. But in the meantime I got transferred to Kweilin or moved around and I lost it there. �Somebody else took it over. I heard later that from the Allison representative that they had it flying and they were using it locally. FRANK BORING: Could you describe again how you got the plane in the truck because we didn't have the tape on then with the bolts falling out in the back. BILL SCHAPER: The Stinson 105 belonged to the premiere of Burma, name of Usaw. And I figured well, everybody is salvaging sewing machines, guns, ammunition, bolts of cloth, I'd take the airplane and could make a buck. I put the airplane… the airplane fit on the back of the International. I had with a board sticking out the back to hold the tail skin and I towed a jeep. I don't remember how long it took to get up there but a week or ten days probably. FRANK BORING: What were the conditions of the Burma Road? Can you describe for us what the Burma Road was like? BILL SCHAPER: Lock could tell you more about that, Bob Locke. But going up the Burma Road to get to the north end of Burma over the mountains was a lot of switch backs, I know because I was towing a jeep I had to forward and back at least 6 times to get around a curve. I mean they were tight. Nothing like you got here, these are easy. One time McClure came late to camp one night and I said where the hell you been, Mac? I lost a generator, well how you'd get the generator fixed. This is a true story now, he said well, there was a bunch of Limey's camped out for tea down at the river and the trucks were parked up on the road so I took one off their truck and put it on mine. McClure, you'll meet McClure over the 4th of July probably. When Rangoon was being bombed those of us out at the airfield all had a jeep and a tommy gun. We were invited by the guy that own a big department store that receipt I have there and he said take whatever you want. He gave some of the pilots the keys to the �wine cellar and the liquor store. Oh, I know I had about 4 cases of dry sack. I got that as far as Chungking I think. Yeah. FRANK BORING: Can you described somewhat the [?] at that time? I mean you're going down the streets with a jeep and a tommy gun? BILL SCHAPER: I know one thing - we have a jeep race around there until 2 in the morning sometimes. Did anybody else tell you that, too? No? You ever been to Rangoon? FRANK BORING: No, I've never been to Rangoon. BILL SCHAPER: Well, it’s a big pagoda gold plated on the middle of town. We'd go down there and run around. That's about it. That was a circus before we got blown out there. FRANK BORING: From Rangoon where did you go next? BILL SCHAPER: I took the convoy from Rangoon to Chungking. FRANK BORING: When did you finally arrive in Chungking? BILL SCHAPER: There was a guy up there he was our Provost Marshall. What the hell was his name? Those of us that had come up with the convoy had a bunch of what we called loot. And he was confiscating everything we could [?]. We had, I had this plane, but about 3 days before we got to Kunming we decided to put everything on a truck and then hid the truck. We were scavengers, first class. Wouldn't you know that damn truck burned up? FRANK BORING: Who was this Provost Marshall? BILL SCHAPER: I... give me the rooster I could look at it. What the hell was his name? McCarty, no it was an Irish name. He was one of Chennault's staff with John Williams. �FRANK BORING: Greenlaw? BILL SCHAPER: No, it was Greenlaw, Williams, Chennault, I don't know. Oh, he got into so many goddamn fights up there you couldn't believe it. He was a pain in the ass. I never knew him personally, but those other guys had personal contact with him. FRANK BORING: Did you have any contacts with Harvey or Olga? BILL SCHAPER: No. You'd have to talk to Boyington, but he's dead. He was shacked up with her I think. So I've been told. FRANK BORING: Tell us about Bob Locke and maybe about his leopard kitten. BILL SCHAPER: Oh, he could tell you more about that. FRANK BORING: Oh, yeah, he has. BILL SCHAPER: He went over as a prop man. Bob Locke went over as a prop man and he was shuttling supplies back and forth and he picked up this leopard. I was quite surprised when he came up with that. FRANK BORING: Did you have any contact with the leopard at all? BILL SCHAPER: No. We got some pictures of him somewhere. FRANK BORING: Let's go to Chungking now. What were your duties there basically the same as before. BILL SCHAPER: Yeah. Maintenance. We got there it was pretty well blown up. I don't know how long we stayed here. A week maybe. FRANK BORING: Then from there where did you go? �BILL SCHAPER: Back to Kunming I think. From Chungking to Kunming stayed there a while and went to Kweilin. That's when I think after Kweilin is when the Air Force came in. That was the end. FRANK BORING: Did you witness first hand any of the bombing of the Chinese cities? BILL SCHAPER: Kunming, yeah. We get into Kunming. FRANK BORING: That would be good if you could tell us anything about the city damage, description of the bombing. BILL SCHAPER: In Kunming I can recall an incidence or two where they would pick up bodies and throw them in the back of a flatbed like cord wood and take them out and bury them. FRANK BORING: What kind of effect did that have on you? BILL SCHAPER: Don't bother me. FRANK BORING: Did you, I mean, what effect did it have, knowledge that the Chinese were pretty much defenseless at this time. The Japanese just bombing them. Did you have any did you feel anything about the Japanese? BILL SCHAPER: No. Probably pissed off, but other than that, I mean, what the hell at that time you… FRANK BORING: The first time AVG went into combat was in December of 1941. Do you recall that first day when they came back after shooting down the airplanes, the bombers in Kunming? BILL SCHAPER: Yeah, that was. I guess you call it a day of joy. I guess it renewed a confidence in a lot of people. After that first shoot up. �FRANK BORING: Do you remember when the planes first came in I mean there was some anticipation because you knew they were going up into battle. BILL SCHAPER: I don't recall. FRANK BORING: OK. Do you remember a man they called Herman the German. BILL SCHAPER: Very well! Gerhard Neumann was a very good friend of mine. He came to work with me in Kunming in the heavy maintenance because he was a graduate engineer of the best schools in Germany. He had a garage in Kunming. And he told me the history. He had his mother, his wife and a Pekinese dog. Come to think of it I don't know where the hell they lived in Kunming. But he and I became very well acquainted. FRANK BORING: How did he come to the AVG? BILL SCHAPER: He was an aeronautical engineer from Germany who immigrated, his parents, his dad died in a concentration camp they went Israel, Israel they immigrated to China. His wife, the Pekinese dog and his mother and Gerhard. I got a lot of pictures… quite a few pictures him and the dog and his mother. In fact he would appreciate a copy if they’re still good. FRANK BORING: What was the effect of having, I mean you are all Americans there. What was the effect of having a German come in and start working. BILL SCHAPER: We were not at war with Germany yet. This? Pearl Harbor. He was the hardest working guy I ever worked for. Worked with. FRANK BORING: What were you saying about [?] Individuals in the AVG that you became good friends with? �BILL SCHAPER: Gerhard Neumann was one. Johnny Carter, I don't know what the hell happened to him. Overly. FRANK BORING: You were talking about that expression that Gerhard used about divorce… We were up in Chungking I think, he said Bill, he introduced me to Chinese cooking by the way. We're telling about Gerhard Neumann, he spoke fluent Chinese, he said Bill, I want to tell you something, he had a problem with his I didn't know what the reason was, he got a Chinese divorce, he said I'm the only German Jew with a Chinese divorce. Things that you remember, you know. BILL SCHAPER: FRANK BORING: Yeah. BILL SCHAPER: I got quite a few picture of him in that can there. FRANK BORING: Come back to Sandell. Did you get to know him? BILL SCHAPER: No, we was quite aloof. He was my C.O. FRANK BORING: Talk about that and use his name. BILL SCHAPER: We talk about Sandell. We never had any personal contacts because he was my C.O. and the last time I saw him was in Rangoon when he climbed in that P-40 and never came back. FRANK BORING: How did you feel, when a guy gets into an airplane like that and you basically put it together… was there some kind of a feeling? BILL SCHAPER: None. Remorse? FRANK BORING: Not so much remorse but just responsibility. BILL SCHAPER: No. I put enough planes together that I got compliments from most of the pilots, but he had that, I'm only going my heresy, but he had �the problem with the problem he had in Rangoon he had once before and survived. Not being a pilot I don't know, you know. FRANK BORING: How did you feel about the pilots? How did they feel about you? Did you get along with them all? BILL SCHAPER: I got along with everybody. Yeah. FRANK BORING: Did you associated with pilots or did you… BILL SCHAPER: Oh, yeah, we mingled all together. We had basketball, baseball games between us. And Pete Atkinson who got killed over there was a good personal friend of mine. He was my engineering officer and he was quite a basketball player. I had a little bit… we put a team together. I think, no, he wasn't with us. Up in Chungking it was. It was an Olympic team against a bunch of crews, us dummies you know. They wiped our ass pretty good. FRANK BORING: Can you describe for us the difference between life in the military and life in the AVG? BILL SCHAPER: The difference between in the military and after we got to Toungoo, rank didn't mean anything. We were all equal. It was quite a surprise for me and some people I think might have taken advantage of it. But, myself, we just common laborers, common people, you know? We were all civilians in fact. FRANK BORING: What about discipline, showing up to work on time and all that kind of stuff? BILL SCHAPER: I never had a problem with discipline, myself. There were a few incidences where we had some guys that couldn't handle it--booze. And I think when Chennault got wind of that he sent them home -a couple of them. That was in Toungoo, that was quite a surprise. I was with the second group that came over, the largest group on the �Jaegersfontein. We had 2 or 3 groups come over later. Second and third group. But some of those guys were kooky. FRANK BORING: You did make some friends while you were there. Was there anybody that got shot down or died that had a particular effect on you? BILL SCHAPER: Pete Atkinson. FRANK BORING: Can you tell us a little bit about that? BILL SCHAPER: Well, it was on a Sunday morning I think it was. I was working that morning when Pete took off and he buzzed Toungoo area and he split the airplane in half. He went out at the bottom. I think, that's what I've been told. It was confirmed because I went over and picked him up. I picked up the remains of the airplane. It is so many years back you forget you known. FRANK BORING: Are there any particular incidents that stick out from that particular period of time? Anything that incidents, or people. What do you remember the most? BILL SCHAPER: In Toungoo? FRANK BORING: Anytime in AVG. BILL SCHAPER: A lot of hard work. What I remember the most was just work dawn to dark every day. FRANK BORING: Do you consider that a good period of your life? BILL SCHAPER: Enjoyed it, yeah. Do you think those kids in Arabia had fun, shit they don't know nothing. They were only gone what 6 months. FRANK BORING: How long were you actually out there? �BILL SCHAPER: I was the last to leave whenever we left. I volunteered for the next 2 weeks then myself and a couple of others we got a ride to on a DC3 to Calcutta. That was an experience. You could get a house boy there for 1 rupee a day which was 26 cents I think. We stayed in Calcutta a week. I was debating whether to go work CNAC. I had offers to go to work for CNAC at the time. All kinds of Letters and some of the fellows like Rossi and those went. But I elected to go home. I didn't want to go back into the military. So I hitchhiked by air transport across India to Karachi then I caught the… we had a ticket on the Mariposa. We had to pay our own way back. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Schaper_Bill_1991-04-23_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Schaper, Wilfred E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Bill Schaper interview (video and transcript, 3 of 4), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Bill Schaper by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Bill Schaper was Crew Chief for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after serving in the US Army as a Staff Sergeant in the 77th Pursuit Squadron. It was his responsibility to maintain the aircrafts. In this tape, Schaper discusses describes the conditions of the Burma Road and his experience witnessing the bombing of Kunming, in addition to the differences between life in the military and the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f0ab5ff6d9599090f85d9dda7ac05379.mp4 0b3fddf268f0272b6f159d884209fc22 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df28ba97e8b8ecc1a0f0b611a31b69b5.pdf f1583845af30336a2ae646629ed6b542 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Wilfred “Bill” Schaper Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: You came from California and never heard of China. What was your experience, what do you recall about arriving in this foreign country. How did it affect you? BILL SCHAPER: After landing in Rangoon everything was totally strange. We got on that train up to Toungoo and I guess bussed to the airport. First thing I sat down on was a bed that was a hard as the floor. Personally I enjoyed it myself. Because it was different. One thing I can recall we had a house boy and he used to bring us coffee in the morning and one morning the cup of coffee had a scorpion in the bottom. So we fired him. FRANK BORING: What was your daily routine like? BILL SCHAPER: Work. Just routine work. I did the most maintenance from daylight to dark every day. FRANK BORING: How about the working conditions, were they… BILL SCHAPER: The working conditions were quite primitive. I can recall we had spark plugs at that time that were not ceramic like you have now. They were plug wrapped in [?] glass plastic and they would absorb the moisture. Every time in the morning we would go out and warm up an airplane, it would be missing 2, 3, 4 cylinders. We �pulled the plugs out. I took them over to the cook shack put them in the oven, dry them out and brought them back. We were so short of equipment, supplies. Tools we had none, very few. I'm talking about hand tools. FRANK BORING: That is just the kind of thing we are looking for. That was perfect. That gives us a sense of pain. Keep going. Also… BILL SCHAPER: We were so short of supplies and batteries the same way. I can't think of anything else. FRANK BORING: Did you get frustrated and feed up with that kind of problems? BILL SCHAPER: Oh, yeah and then you wait for tomorrow. You are so short of equipment, supplies, tools you just wait until the equipment arrives My own experience we replaced parts of the Allison engine a crew chief would never attempt on the field just to keep them running. FRANK BORING: Like what? Give us an example. BILL SCHAPER: Taking the back of the engine off. Changing the drive gears. FRANK BORING: Anything else? I mean the thing about the oven putting the spark plugs in was great. What about batteries, gasoline. BILL SCHAPER: Gasoline was all hand pumped. I never worried about the gasoline, the armament, or radios those were always somebody else's job. FRANK BORING: Ok. Did you ever get the feeling that you were not worth it? The money you were getting paid. BILL SCHAPER: What do you mean? That was a lot of money-- $350 a month. FRANK BORING: Why don't you talk about that? The relationship of what you were getting in the military and… �BILL SCHAPER: Well, that was one of the reasons we left. The increase. I was making $90 bucks and flight pay at Hamilton Field and when they offered us $350 back there that [?] it right there. We left. I think a lot of guys [?]. FRANK BORING: When you were there, though, you were paid $350, but no equipment, hardly any tools, jerry-rigging stuff. What was your feeling at that time? Was it worth the pay? BILL SCHAPER: We didn't have any idea what we were getting into. Just cold turkey, you know. FRANK BORING: Give us an impression. An airplane would get damaged in training, what would happen? They would bring it into the hanger? You would start working on it, what was the procedure? Let's take an example of an airplane that gets banged up in training. BILL SCHAPER: Training accidents, yeah. Oh, we scavenged parts from one to keep others flying until we got the replacement parts. What they call it cannibalize them I guess. FRANK BORING: Was there any particular, any one airplane that you can recall from the training period that was particular difficult. BILL SCHAPER: They are all the same. P-40 is a P-40. FRANK BORING: How about giving us a sense, you mentioned earlier that you were experienced on the P-40 but most of the guys you were working with weren't. Did you have to train them? Or how did they eventually get around to being able to? BILL SCHAPER: I feel I would hurt somebody's feelings if I give my own opinion. FRANK BORING: Oh, no I was… �BILL SCHAPER: Oh, yeah, in fact Charlie Bond wrote me a note in the book. We just corresponded for the first time this past spring. Last fall, this spring. Incidences he had would [?] bad maintenance. FRANK BORING: Well, we are not trying to make anybody look bad, but we are really trying to get a sense of we know that a lot of pilots that went there were never trained on a P-40. We know some of the mechanics weren't, but this is part of history. It's not your making [?] of them - they weren't trained on it. BILL SCHAPER: We were in a training school really, actually, the hard way though on the job I guess you'd call it. FRANK BORING: That's what I'm looking for. BILL SCHAPER: It was on the job the training, is what it was. FRANK BORING: What's the crew chief? How many had actually trained with before? BILL SCHAPER: I don't know. FRANK BORING: But it was a handful? BILL SCHAPER: Maybe 40% of them? Maybe less than that, I think the only one that had it was Mitchell Field, Mitchell and Selfridge at Detroit. I learned that after I got there. FRANK BORING: In terms of the training period, it went on ‘til Pearl Harbor? Do you recall? BILL SCHAPER: Pearl Harbor? Damn right I do. FRANK BORING: Tell us about the day. �BILL SCHAPER: It was on a Monday morning. I was checking out a P-40 and McClure ran up to me waving his arms. Shut it down, shut it down. I said “what's your problem?” - I thought maybe it had caught on fire. He said “they bombed Pearl Harbor.” I said “where the hell is Pearl Harbor?” The Navy knew, but I didn't know. FRANK BORING: What was your impression about you got a chance to talk to some of the guys and learn more about what was happening. What was your personal impression of what was going on? What do you recall? Once the guys starting talking about it and people were discussing what was happening what was your impression? BILL SCHAPER: I was told I think that we had a Japanese air base within a 100 miles across the hills there somewhere. It never bothered me. FRANK BORING: Where were you when the Flying Tigers first had their encounters? December the 20th, when they actually encountered airplanes over Kunming? BILL SCHAPER: I was in Kunming. I was on the field. FRANK BORING: Ok, then let's start off with you were in Rangoon. When did you move the Kunming? Do you remember? BILL SCHAPER: It would be in the fall of '41. Probably October, November. FRANK BORING: Do you remember arriving in Kunming? BILL SCHAPER: No. We flew in on a DC-3, I think. We had tools and equipment. FRANK BORING: Was the conditions there better than…? BILL SCHAPER: Yeah, much better, well… FRANK BORING: Could you describe them? �BILL SCHAPER: We lived at the hostel near the air field. We had 2 guys to the room and I think I recall we had rec room. It is so far back, man. FRANK BORING: Let's look at the work space. Where did you operate out of? For fixing the airplanes? BILL SCHAPER: Right on the field. I got a good picture of that I think. Did you ever see the Chinese that used to wash parts for us? FRANK BORING: Could you tell us about that? BILL SCHAPER: Well, we had… we picked up some Chinese helpers. I think they came from the States. We also used natives for minor duties, cleaning, stuff like that. FRANK BORING: Could you give us a description of? Did you know Pak On Lee? BILL SCHAPER: Yeah. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us about him? BILL SCHAPER: Not there I met him back at Ojai. He worked for CAMCO didn't he? FRANK BORING: Well, we are going to interview him too. BILL SCHAPER: Well, he's up in Washington isn't he? FRANK BORING: Can you try to give us an impression or describe to us what it was like inside the hanger or whatever it was. Did you say you had Chinese washing parts, you had... I mean I need to picture being there. Can you describe working on a P-40 and who was working on it and what they were doing, and the Chinese? BILL SCHAPER: It was all outdoors. I mean we did everything outside. That I recall. �FRANK BORING: Well, we are in Kunming now and the guys are still training in their airplanes, Pearl Harbor. BILL SCHAPER: No, I think most of the training was done in Toungoo. Except their tactical. See, I have nothing to do plan. The pilots could tell you more about that. FRANK BORING: We're looking for I guess when a pilot came down and landed his plane. BILL SCHAPER: The crew chief took over. After a pilot came down and landed, the crew chief took over. If there was a major problem then he would push it back into the main hanger. That's where we came in. FRANK BORING: And what happened? BILL SCHAPER: It was Overly, myself, Carter I don't remember - 4 or 5 other guys. FRANK BORING: Traditionally what would happen? The airplane has now landed, crew chief takes over, they bring it over to the hanger. Now what happens? BILL SCHAPER: Fix it that's all. That's it, just work. When you take your car to a garage what do you get? FRANK BORING: I guess what I'm looking for more specifically though is, let's say that you come back from battle, it’s got bullet holes in it or something like that. BILL SCHAPER: Not in Kunming, that's later after Rangoon. If you're talking about the period of time from maybe Oct. thru Dec. As I recall the first time we had combat was in Kunming wasn't it? FRANK BORING: Dec. 20th BILL SCHAPER: When Cokey Hoffman got it. �FRANK BORING: Well, let's go beyond that then. Where were you after that? Where were you after Kunming? BILL SCHAPER: I know I was ferried down to Rangoon and back up to Kunming, different areas - Chungking, Kweilin, as I recall. FRANK BORING: Were you on the airfield when there were battles going on? BILL SCHAPER: Frequently. FRANK BORING: Can you describe to us what that was like? BILL SCHAPER: Run and hide, that's all. Most of our action was away from the field. The only time I can recall the [?] being bombed bad was either Rangoon or Kweilin. FRANK BORING: Let's talk about… you had mentioned that when an airplane arrived after battle, there was crew chief took over and then it was brought in to hanger or the outside area. Let's take an example. Try to remember an example of airplane that got shot up and just describe to us... BILL SCHAPER: Well, suppose the… if the engine thru a rod or begin to be totally incapacitated they brought in the hanger for an engine change ... if we had one. That's where I took over. FRANK BORING: What other kinds of examples do you have, change engines sometimes, what other kinds of things happened? BILL SCHAPER: I can tell you of an incidence, I don't know where the hell it was but it was out of Kunming we had couple of airplanes, one was in a rice paddy somewhere up in the bushes and it was colder than hell and I think it was Carter, myself we took a jeep to salvage the parts that we could carry out. And it was raining and cold. And we try to get a fire started and we had a bunch of Chinese auxiliary people �around us. So I reached… we got a little fire going… and I reached in the back and got an oxygen bottle and turned the oxygen on and the coolies couldn't figure out what the hell was coming out of the bottle but pretty soon we had a pretty good blaze going. FRANK BORING: You get a chance to salvage anything out of that airplane? BILL SCHAPER: Whatever we could carry off, probably a radio, mag needles, carburetor? Whatever was salvageable…generator… FRANK BORING: Let's go to Rangoon - the fall of Rangoon. What do you recall about the last days of fall of Rangoon? BILL SCHAPER: Want to get my diary? FRANK BORING: You have diary? BILL SCHAPER: Yeah, I kept one. I could use it for notes. FRANK BORING: Yeah, we'd like to look at that later, but do you recall off the top of your head? BILL SCHAPER: No, no it’s just a lot of hard work that's all. I can recall disbursing the airplanes. We'd go down a dirt road there would be a pole here and a pole here and you have to taxi like zig zag to take it off the field.? And those of us in the Air Force? Air Corp we never taxied an airplane before in our life. That was a pilot's job but over there everybody did it. When you talk about the nose of a Cadillac as long that P-40 nose is about 14 feet, I think. I mean you couldn't see over the top. FRANK BORING: From what I understand it was a very chaotic time. The fall of Rangoon. They let out the lunatics, the zoos… BILL SCHAPER: Yeah, you're right. We were out at the field at Rangoon when they burned the docks and I remember the kooks running up and down �the highway. You see we were out of town. What the hell was the name of that and we were told by the guy that own the big department store [?] go in, take whatever you want, go get it and carry it out, and we did. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Schaper_Bill_1991-04-23_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Schaper, Wilfred E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Bill Schaper interview (video and transcript, 2 of 4), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Bill Schaper by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Bill Schaper was Crew Chief for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after serving in the US Army as a Staff Sergeant in the 77th Pursuit Squadron. It was his responsibility to maintain the aircrafts. In this tape, Schaper discusses describes his first impressions of Rangoon and Toungoo, in addition to the effect the news of Pearl Harbor had on the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c3a940f3f50504a4c7743da1d5614dbe.mp4 3ea0465da59b59593345ec4caf37b142 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ba0d4875c802e1fbe6efacac727b745.pdf 2c30b00bc251a2aed0ae2fe94fe59c3e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Wilfred “Bill” Schaper Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: We'll start off with a question, you can elaborate as much as you want. What you were you doing before you even heard about AVG? BILL SCHAPER: I was staff sergeant in the Army. Hamilton Field. I came home from my uncle and aunt's in Oakland and we had a room at the end of the barracks. Walker was there. Walker said you want to go to China? I said are you crazy? I feared he'd been drunk again or had been drinking. Well, he said, tomorrow morning you can sign up. And the next morning well, we signed up. That was in probably about May '41. FRANK BORING: What was your position in the military? BILL SCHAPER: I was staff sergeant 77th Pursuit Squadron, Hamilton Field? Came over from Oakland visiting my aunt and uncle when I got into the barracks my friend, Walker said you want to go to China? I said you've been drinking? No, I'm telling you the truth. I said what do I do? He said, come on with me in the morning to sign up. That's it. FRANK BORING: What had you heard about China? BILL SCHAPER: Nothing. Had no idea, not an inkling before that. �BILL SCHAPER: I had just come home from Oakland visiting my aunt and uncle when I checked into the barracks we had a room at the end. Walker asked me if I wanted to go to China. I said you've been drinking again. He said, no, I mean it. He'd been interviewed, I guess. And then he said come with me in the morning and you'll sign up. So I signed up and I never heard again for a couple of weeks whatever happened. In the meantime I was refused transfer to another group that would offer a better promotion by Mr. Aker, General Aker, and I had made up my mind to leave. There was no way you could get off of there in 1941. You were locked into the service. FRANK BORING: Hold off car going thru. Start right from the beginning. What were you doing before you heard about the AVG? BILL SCHAPER: Staff Sgt. U.S. Air Corp, Hamilton Field. I had just come back from Oakland visiting my aunt and uncle. And Walker my roommate at Hamilton Field asked me if I wanted to go to China? I said you been drinking again, no he said I mean follow me home we'll sign up tomorrow morning. That was it. FRANK BORING: A siren now. What were you doing before you ever heard about the AVG. BILL SCHAPER: I was a staff sergeant in the U. S. Air Corp at Hamilton Field, 77th Pursuit Squadron. I had gone over to visit my aunt and uncle in Oakland and when I got back Sunday night Walker was in our room and he asked me if I wanted to go to China? I said you've been drinking again? I could tell by the beer cans under the bunk. He said, no, I mean it come on over we'll sign up tomorrow morning. So we did. I think it was on a Monday morning. FRANK BORING: What was your experience? Why did you decide to go to China? BILL SCHAPER: I was refused a promotion to a group that split off to mark March Field and I was a little unhappy with my rank probably, if I remember. And when this opportunity came I decided to leave. �FRANK BORING: What did you know about China? BILL SCHAPER: Not a thing. Did not have no idea where I was going, when we were going to leave or nothing. Absolutely cold turkey. FRANK BORING: Was it just the two of you that talked about this? Or where there other guys that were? BILL SCHAPER: I think from Hamilton Field there or I never recalled but there must have been 8 or 9 or 10 of us. FRANK BORING: What was your first contact with representatives from CAMCO? BILL SCHAPER: I don't remember. FRANK BORING: Tell us how you got out of the military and into the AVG. BILL SCHAPER: Nobody ever asked me that before. I don't remember. I know we got notice that we were going to leave San Francisco on July the 1st and this was about the middle of June. [?] had a new Chevy at the time and I had to get that Chevy back to Chicago and turn around and come back in 5 or 6 days I think maybe a week. I got my Chevy back to Chicago, gave it to my parents and drove lease car to Fresno and then hitchhiked from Fresno to San Francisco. FRANK BORING: Once you got to San Francisco what did you find there in terms of AVG group that was there? BILL SCHAPER: I don't even remember the name of the hotel. It was all new to me. I was 29 or 30 years old - I was no kid. We left the P-36's and we got the P-40's I was a [?] chief and I think I knew more about that P-40 than anybody other than people in our group. I recall that one time we had a flight of new pilots come in from flight school and we took them down to Coalinga, down a dirt field because they were ground looping all the time on the concrete. Pilots could �probably tell you more about that than I. We had a couple of accidents down there after we came back from Coalinga I think this China deal came up. At the time we had no idea there was going to be a war in China. In fact we went over cold turkey. FRANK BORING: What was your experience with the P-40 when it first came in and what was your duties… what was your… what were you supposed to do with the airplane? BILL SCHAPER: I was crew chief, hanger chief, maintenance. Complete maintenance, from one end to the other. FRANK BORING: Could you explain in more detail what that involved? BILL SCHAPER: The biggest thing was swapping engines and propellers I guess. I thought the P-40 was a pretty good airplane. FRANK BORING: Let's start from there. I thought the P-40 was a pretty good airplane and they explain to us why you thought it was a pretty good airplane from your perspective don't even worry about the pilots or any of that. From your perspective. BILL SCHAPER: I can't evaluate that. FRANK BORING: Just say whatever you felt about the P-40. Was it an improvement on the P-36? BILL SCHAPER: It was a definite improvement on the P-36. Except it did have ground looping tendencies I guess. FRANK BORING: Let's hear you say again you said earlier that you thought the P-40 was a pretty good airplane. BILL SCHAPER: I guess the P-40 was an improvement over the P-36 that's all I can tell you. �FRANK BORING: Let's start again. Frank will ask the question. What did you think about the P-40 and you can say it had this ground looping problems and builds the airplane and then go into what you thought of it and the ground looping thing. BILL SCHAPER: You see as a mechanic, you don't have any… you don't [?] why it flies even, you don't care just make it fly. I thought the P-40 was a pretty good airplane over the P-36. It had the ground looping qualities that didn't exist in the P-36, I guess. I could tell you that when we got over to China, to Burma, we had Navy person that never knew a liquid cool engine from a tractor. FRANK BORING: Well, tell us more about your experience that you used in China. What is it that made you want CAMCO to have you? I mean why did they want you to go to China, why did they except you? BILL SCHAPER: I guess we were pretty well screened in Hamilton Field because we were the last of the group to be picked up after they brought everybody from back east. But what they were short of they picked up at Hamilton Field. And I was one of them. FRANK BORING: Why did they pick you? BILL SCHAPER: Qualification I guess. That's why Aker would let me go with the other group. FRANK BORING: Can you explain about that… why wouldn't Aker let you go? BILL SCHAPER: Aker's letter to me at the time said "unqualified replacements available" for our squadron. General Aker. General Ira Aker. Commanding General of the 8th Air Force World War II. FRANK BORING: You'll have to say that whole thing. When you say General Ira Aker - that's what we need. We need that whole title in there and then say why he didn't want you to go. Let's start from that point. �BILL SCHAPER: When they picked up replacements for the group they were putting together to go to China General Aker wouldn't release me for another group that went to March Field because a qualified replacement was unavailable. FRANK BORING: And you were qualified? BILL SCHAPER: Oh, yeah, as general mechanic, I was an electrician, a prop man, motor man, everything. FRANK BORING: Let's go to San Francisco now. You met up with some of the guys there at the hotel before you got on the ship. Or do you remember... BILL SCHAPER: Yeah, we had quite a group there before we got on the Jaegersfontein. We went right from there to a bus to the Jaegersfontein. FRANK BORING: Why don't you tell us something about that period? The meeting of all these guys. BILL SCHAPER: I don't remember. FRANK BORING: How about the ship itself. Do you remember getting on the ship? BILL SCHAPER: Oh, yeah, being from Hamilton Field I was familiar with San Francisco. These other guys had come, I mean our other crew personnel had been down in Los Angeles at the Jonathan Club living high on the hog. I went right to San Francisco, San Francisco shipped out. I don't think we were there 3 or 4 days. FRANK BORING: Tell us about the trip over on the ship. BILL SCHAPER: A helluva long ride that's all. It was one week, oh, you probably heard this, from San Francisco to Honolulu. Thirty days to �Singapore. Everything was dried up. We stayed in Singapore overnight, I think, and then shipped out to Toungoo, to Rangoon. FRANK BORING: What did you find when you arrived in Rangoon? BILL SCHAPER: We went put on a lorry and put on a train immediately. I know they searched us for arms. They tried to take all our arms away. I didn't have one. But nobody would relinquish what they had. They just kept them. Because the British authority at the time there was no arms in the British colony. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Rangoon you got on a train to go to Toungoo? What did you find when you arrived in Toungoo? BILL SCHAPER: It was raining. Probably rain. We checked in the barracks and the next morning we were told why we were there. FRANK BORING: What did they tell you? BILL SCHAPER: We were going to protect the Burma Road against the Japanese. I think that was the first indication that I had that there was a war going on. FRANK BORING: What were your duties? BILL SCHAPER: When I arrived in Toungoo? I think we had a general meeting and we were told why we were there. Other than that, before that we had no idea. I had no idea. FRANK BORING: Why were you there? BILL SCHAPER: To protect the Burma Road I guess. FRANK BORING: To get it on tape we've got to have you say when we were in Rangoon they had a general meeting and told us. Let's start again with you saying after you arrived in Toungoo. �BILL SCHAPER: We arrived in Toungoo we had a general meeting either a day or two days later and we were told why we were there. Before that I had no idea. Why we were there? FRANK BORING: That's what we are looking for. In spite the fact that you didn't get off at Toungoo again. BILL SCHAPER: When I arrived in Toungoo the following morning or the second morning after we had a general meeting and we were told why we were in Burma. To protect the Burma Road from the bombing Japanese airplanes, I guess. FRANK BORING: That's what we are looking for. BILL SCHAPER: Why don't you write the script? FRANK BORING: What were your duties, your daily duties there? BILL SCHAPER: My duty, I went over as a crew chief. I found out anyway and those of us who worked the P-40 that there were quite a few inexperienced personnel familiar with the P-40. So after I was crew chief for about a month I was appointed to go into the hanger and do the heavier work. I worked for, what the hell was his name, Pruitt? Pruitt and Harry Fox both Navy personnel who'd never seen a P-40 before. FRANK BORING: So what were your duties like? BILL SCHAPER: I did the most heavy maintenance. FRANK BORING: Which is? BILL SCHAPER: Engine change, propeller change, wing tips, repair damage. I didn't do any sheet metal work though. �FRANK BORING: At this time some of the pilots had never flown P-40, they were all BILL SCHAPER: Navy FRANK BORING: Checking out in the P-40. What kind of experience did you have with the airplanes coming in? I mean the ones that were damaged. What kind of work did you have to do on them? BILL SCHAPER: I did the repair work. FRANK BORING: Repair work is not enough. We need to know the details of what you actually did. If you have an example. For example, maybe Rossi messed up a propeller or something - you can tell a little story about that. BILL SCHAPER: I don't remember. I changed so many goddamn props. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Schaper_Bill_1991-04-23_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Schaper, Wilfred E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Bill Schaper interview (video and transcript, 1 of 4), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Bill Schaper by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Bill Schaper was Crew Chief for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 1st Squadron "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after serving in the US Army as a Staff Sergeant in the 77th Pursuit Squadron. It was his responsibility to maintain the aircrafts. In this tape, Schaper discusses his life as a staff sergeant in the United States Air Corps prior to joining the American Volunteer Group, in addition to their journey overseas from San Francisco to Rangoon aboard the Jaegersfontein. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a774ff9886c510b9a0dbe9b9476c26b8.mp4 f8ac1d1c2db269ba5a57fb62d400c401 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b03434cb918665a18e27a5d63414a1d0.pdf f4704e59be9639b01f950b1a7fdff31c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Richard “Dick” Rossi Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FRANK BORING: When you first joined the AVG, what was your main motivation? Did you think in terms of defending China or fighting Japan? DICK ROSSI: When I joined the AVG, I didn't really think the Japanese would dare to attack us to tell you the truth. People talked about war as being inevitable, but I really didn't think that they were gonna attack us from all the way out there, I figured any conquering they did would be in Asia. I wasn't really all that familiar with China as a country or the people as a whole. To me it was more of a challenge, and I really thought it was something that would further my navy career, if I would have put in that year out there. There was one thing that did impress me from that whole experience in China was the appreciation that our unit, our group got from the Chinese people, and even to this day, they carry it on. They still appreciate and thank us for being out there and stopping the bombing of their cities. Before I went out there, the only thing I saw about that was the newsreels. When they had the newsreels at the movies and showed Chungking be bombed and Shanghai being bombed, and Nanking. But it was kind of long range at that time; you're sitting in a comfortable theater seeing it. But when we got out there, bombing of Chungking stopped, the bombing of Kunming stopped, and when we got down to Kweilin, we slowed down the bombing down there so, those people were very appreciative. We didn't really have that close a contact with them �while we were there because – I spent a lot of my time even in Burma. But even when we were in China, we didn't really have that much contact with them. We were living in our hostel out by the airport, we got to town to go to the stores, but you weren't meeting people personally, you were going into a restaurant or shop and seeing a shopkeeper, we didn't have that close a contact so much. Especially the ones in the lower echelons. Naturally, Chennault and the others, they were in constant contact with the Chinese and the ones who were in authority there, but the average person in our group wasn't really that close. But at the different places, like in Kunming and Chungking and Kweilin, these people would come out and give these parties and express their appreciation and I thought that part made it feel a little more worthwhile too. FRANK BORING: Did you know P.Y. Shu or Tiger Wong at that time? DICK ROSSI: Didn't know Tiger Wong at that time, I just knew of him. He was Colonel Wong at that time, but I just knew that he was in the higher command of the CAF, but P.Y. Shu was with Chennault all the time that he was in the office, so anytime you saw Chennault, P.Y. Shu wasn't far away, so I got to see P.Y. quite a lot more. FRANK BORING: How was his relationship with the Tigers? Did he get along with you guys? DICK ROSSI: There again, we didn't have that much direct contact with him. He was Chennault's interpreter and translator, and he was with Chennault and all, but he didn't come to our squadron or to our quarters or anything like that. Mostly we would see him when he was with the old man, driving around somewhere, coming into the field or whatever. FRANK BORING: What was Greg Boyington like? �DICK ROSSI: He was a hell raiser! We were instructors together down at Pensacola, so I knew Greg from before. We signed up together, went out on the same ship together. He had a drinking problem which we all knew about. Some of us who were down at Pensacola probably realized it a little more. From a personal point of view on board the ship with him and the squadron, I had no problem with him. When he got a little obnoxious with his drinking, I just stayed out of way, because when he got really well along, he would want to take on anybody. He could pick an argument with anybody once he got drunk. But when he wasn't drunk, he just was not much different from anybody else out there, from my point of view, and as I say, I'd known him for a couple of years before, so I wasn't surprised by anything he did. FRANK BORING: In terms of his flying though, he was considered one of the better fighters or pilots, but how did he treat his airplanes and how was that relationship with – if he flew a plane then the next day someone else would have to get in that plane. What kind of things happened regarding that? DICK ROSSI: I think that was pretty much like everybody else. I know one time in Toungoo during the early period when they were checking out. Being a marine, he had fighter training, so he was a little bit ahead of us who didn't, and I think he had – so much power you were supposed to put in those airplanes, you could put more on but you didn't know what the results would be, they weren't built for it, and I know that one day he had some kind of a problem and had to go around and put the throttle on way past the limits, and I think the next someone flew that airplane and the engine quit on them, but he wasn't the only who did that, that's for sure. FRANK BORING: Why did he leave the Tigers? DICK ROSSI: That's a good question. Pappy was a little bit – he didn't like authority very much for one thing, and why he decided to go home and leave the group I really don't know. He just suddenly up – �because he had a position of responsibility in the squadron and he didn't because of his drinking, he would let that responsibility slide pretty much, he didn't get along very well with Bob Neale, because that reflected on Bob, so they had a lot of friction at times between them, although by the same token, Bob Neale had recommended him and he was given promotion to a Vice Squadron Commander, and that wasn't too long before he took off and left, and a lot of people say that he was fired, but he wasn't really fired, he just quit, he just said, "I'm going home." and he went. FRANK BORING: I know you became very close with the guys when you were in training and also when you fought and everything, what was your reaction to the first death in the AVG, the first one that didn't come back or was even shot down. DICK ROSSI: We started having deaths before anything ever happened, just in the original training, but was before I was there. I didn't know any of the people that were involved. When the first two pilots were killed in Rangoon, I didn't know either of them. Because operated in separate squadrons, living in different quarters we didn't even see some of these guys. I didn't even meet Arvid Olson who commanded the 3rd squadron until I went down to work for him in Burma and it's when, I think, somebody that you know more closely. When somebody in our squadron started getting it, you feel it a little bit more. When Hoffman and Christman who we knew pretty well because of working with the 2nd squadron, when they got it of course, you're down there on the scene at the same time. Then Sandell got it and then it hits a little bit more, but I guess in wartime you sort of expect it. FRANK BORING: The last time we talked you were rather descriptive about the fall of Rangoon. I just wondered if you could go over that again, there were a lot of stories that came out of that one. DICK ROSSI: The last days that came out of Rangoon were pretty chaotic. We kept getting all kinds of rumors. We'd have rumors that the Japs �had announced they were dropping paratroopers, we had rumors that the British were sending in a whole brigade of tank corps and they were gonna drive the Japs back, we had all kinds of rumors that were frightening and encouraging, and none of them really seemed to materialize. I don't know where they started, but I guess even when they were having some of their conferences, and they would demand that the British would do something to hold Rangoon, they'd say, "Yes we will," and we'd get a big rumor but no action took place. And we even heard one time when the ships were already out there with these people, we would put up two planes to go over and make sure when they got to the dock, that they wouldn't be jumped or anything. They never came over and the last few days, so much of the population had left, storekeepers had left, administrators had left, families had left, houses were abandoned, we were living with families at that time, and the families, or the owners of the families would take off and just leave you with the house. At the same time, stores were boarded up or abandoned, you could just go in and help yourself and go down to the docks that were loaded with all kinds of equipment, durable, commercial and more stuff, you could go in there and load a truck full of anything you wanted. And you could go and get the truck too, and that's what we were going quite a lot, we were scrounging a lot, we were lining up trucks and material. I remember one truck came back loaded with nothing but sherry and wine. Another truck we loaded with gabardine, we were all going to have gabardine uniforms made. We would take these big six by [?] of the army military and take two jeeps and stand them up on their back end, so that one guy could drive three pieces of equipment up towards China so we'd have wheels. There was a lot of that going on. It got to the point where we didn't have any food supply, regular food supply because we'd be living in an abandoned home or something like that, and we'd just send a couple of mechanics down town with tommy guns and a truck and just scrounge around the warehouses and come back with whatever food – I remember one day all they came back with was cases of canned peaches.so we ate canned peaches for two meals. Everything was chaotic, they let all the �people out of jails, they let them out of insane asylums, they were closing down the hospitals, the sick were on their own. So things got real chaotic. Then all of a sudden, the word comes out, "We're gonna hold at all costs." Then the next day, that would disappear somewhere. The last day that we did any action in Rangoon, that night we took all the airplanes out and dispersed them, out at these little fields around the area, so that they wouldn't be there for the night bombing. Except we had one airplane still there that the mechanics were gonna work on. And somewhere in the early morning, Bob Neale came around and told us, "We've got to get the heck out of here because the British have left, and the direction finders have all gone." He had a station wagon and he took me down to the – our mechanic said that that plane was ready to go, Bob drove me down there to pick up that last P-40, I think it was number 89 or something, I don't remember, but he got down there and it was like a Hindu sitting straddled on the fuselage of that airplane, kind of leaning against the vertical stabilizer, and he was sort of covered with blood. First I started thinking, sabotage, because there were a lot of Japanese agents in there, but this guy was like he was shell-shocked, and I never did figure out what the heck happened to him, whether he was one of the guys from the insane asylum, got hit by some shrapnel or something because they had bombed during the night, or what, or whether he was okay to start with and maybe he was shell-shocked from the concussion, but we got him off the airplane and he just mumbled and didn't want to fight or anything, he just left, so we took a pretty good examination of the airplane and except for a few shrapnel holes in it, it seemed to be okay, so I took it off and flew it off to one of the other fields where I was gonna had some more gas to it and then we were gonna fly up to Magwe to get out of there and by the time we got out this other field and got rid of the gas, we got another alert and the bombers were back over and we just still had some ack ack going, it was about eighteen miles out of town, so they could aim it up over as these planes circled away, so he said, "Get the heck out of here and head for Magwe," so we jumped in the airplanes, I was sure low on gas by then, anyway, we took off with �the British ack ack, we didn't know whether they were firing at us or who, we were flying through their forest of ack ack out there and took off – that was another kind of a chaotic deal. We had left one guy there who had disappeared a day or so before, Ed Leibolt, we were still worried about whether he might still be alive or whether we were abandoning him or not, but he was never seen again. FRANK BORING: Did you ever meet Chiang Kai-shek or Madam Chiang Kai-shek? DICK ROSSI: Yeah, I met them, when I say met them, I didn't have any conversation with him, he didn't speak English. One day, Michelson and I picked up Madam at the airport and took her down to the hostel to serve her tea or have the houseboy serve her tea, but we didn't realize at the time, she was the Madam, we just thought she was a good looking gal! We asked her if she'd like to go down and have tea, she said yes, and went with us. When we found out when we got back and there were all these secret service types of the Chinese fuming around the place and everything, we found out what we'd done. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of her? DICK ROSSI: She was very charming, good looking gal and she spoke English with a Georgia accent. I didn't have any communication or anything with her other than say that one occasion there when she came down for tea. But as a politician or leader I never had any contact with her. At the two parties they gave for us, I was out somewhere with the squadron when they both took place so I didn't get to those. FRANK BORING: Can you describe the attitudes about the Japanese as pilots before you actually went up against them and heard what Chennault said about them, and then after you actually had contact with the Japanese as fighters. �DICK ROSSI: I always heard the old prototype stories that they all wear thick glasses and have spiked haircuts or something, but naturally none of these things ever hold up. I think they were just like anybody else, they had a lot of good ones, and a lot of them that weren't that good, and they had some that were very experienced, and some that were really inexperienced and I think we came across all kinds of them. Because sometimes you'd come up against one by surprise and he'd look as shocked as you would if it happened to you. I tried to shoot one down over Kweilin one day. I was tearing down on him and I figured I'm not gonna shoot him until I get so close that it's gonna break up the airplane. When I got that close and pulled the trigger, every gun jammed. Not a bullet came out of any one of six guns, and I had picked up so much speed that I went right passed him, pulled up right alongside of his wing to turn away from him so I could go out and charge my guns but I was close enough to look in the cockpit and I saw that look of surprise on his face, he didn't know I was there at all. His eyes were as big as saucers almost you might say. There was a shocked look on his face, and of course, he peeled off immediately to the left and I peeled off to the right so I could get out. I kept going fast because I figured if he turned after me, he'd get a good shot at me, so I wanted to get away from him as soon as I could and as far enough to charge my guns and come back instead of him coming after me, he peeled off the other way, and by the time I got out and charged my guns and came back, I couldn't find him, I'd lost him, and that broke my heart because I was right over the field and Chennault was down there, I could have dropped one in his lap. FRANK BORING: Wasn't there a fantasy that these Japanese really couldn't carry on the war, they couldn't fight. DICK ROSSI: There was a certain amount of that conversation about them that they would do everything by the book and they wouldn't do this and that, but they didn't all follow that. They had some pretty sharp guys too. When you stop and think about it, you can't hardly figure any way than they had some sharp guys. �FRANK BORING: ………………… of the Flying Tigers DICK ROSSI: Talk about the image, I think it depends on whose eyes you're looking through because a lot of people like to write it up as a bunch of mercenaries and drunks, and other people like to write it up as a really fine-honed fighting group and some are in between. It was just, I'd say, an average group. If you could put brought them up against an equal sized group in any of our own services, they'd have probably been darn near the same. FRANK BORING: The one on one battle you had, the most vivid kill. DICK ROSSI: I still have to go back to the most vivid one was my first one because they were head on passes, I mean, you're just looking at one guy shooting straight at you and you're shooting at him. The others, like when you jump somebody from behind, they don't see you and you don't see them or maybe they know you're there, but there's nothing they can do about it. Usually, if there are a lot of airplanes the activity is a lot more chaotic. There was a deal where for a certain number of minutes, there were just two of us together, and this continually coming back and trying to get the other guy and I think that's more vivid just because it was strictly one on one for enough time until I finally got jumped by his buddies and got out of there. I think that always seems to be more memorable. You're looking down that guy's guns a few times in a row and you keep wondering who's gonna hit first, and that makes it a little more vivid than when you're in a melee of some kind with everybody going in all directions. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rossi_Dick_1991-02-06_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rossi, John Richard "Dick" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Dick Rossi interview (video and transcript, 6 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of John Richard "Dick" Rossi by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dick Rossi served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader for the 1st Squadron, "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after being discharged from service in the US Navy, where he had been assigned as a flight instructor at Pensacola Naval Air Station. He arrived in Burma in November 1941 and began training on the P-40 airplanes, but had not yet completed his training when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Though officially attached to the 1st Squadron, he was also temporarily assigned to both the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons. In this tape, Rossi describes his main motivation for joining the American Volunteer Group and his reaction to experiencing loss among the group. He also goes into detail on the fall of Rangoon and the attitudes of the Japanese as pilots. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4329cfe26f728c0017471d1616f09772.mp4 92f7c86e346f0be114253f51a69021ba https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/41227cd27e4581da9d4a0e000034c611.pdf dd88f29f17c86981ebe90a867d3800a2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Richard “Dick” Rossi Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BOSSI: If you could just, in your own words and in your own feelings of why you were ready to go at the end, because the world was at war and you were aware of that. There were reasons why you guys were all fed up and ready to go home. I know a lot of the guys just wanted to take a vacation and come back, but if you could talk about that aspect of it. DICK ROSSI: When July 4th rolled around – actually the group of us that got out later, our contracts weren't even nearly up, we would have to stay up until November, but because the bulk of them that came out early, they were ended, they figured there was no practical way they could phase them out a few at a time. So they just said that at this time they'd cancel all the contracts as of the 4th of July. As it turned out the air corps didn't have anybody there so a bunch had to stay an extra two weeks to make the transition. The main reason I think that they got such a little turn out other than the attitude that Bissell and some of these had is that they didn't want to give anybody any rotation or any leave. Some of the guys like myself and Bob Neale, we'd gone down to Rangoon in early January and now it was 4th of July, and when the first squadron left Burma, I went back down with the 3rd squadron, so all this time we'd been in action. It was a certain amount of stress and nervousness. Bob Neale, because he had more responsibility being a squadron leader and in charge of so many stations, he was practically a nervous �wreck. He lost a lot of weight, he was jumpy. He was just kind of a physical thing. I think the stress was building up on the majority of people, or a bunch of them. Of course, a lot of them were really anxious to get home to see their families and this sort of thing. I think that if they had said we'll let X number go off for a week or two over to Calcutta and come back and rotated them, they'd have probably got a bunch more, but then at that time I thought, I think I'll go back in the navy, I had decided I'd go back in the navy. But that didn't really affect it that much because Chennault had been authorized to give us a navy rank and some people keep saying that we were promised this and it wasn't given to us, but that wasn't my case because I left the navy as an ensign and Chennault was authorized to give commissions in the air corps as high as Majors and in the navy as high as Lieutenant which was a two-striper, so if I would have gone in the navy, which was a two-striper, so if I would have gone in the navy, he would have given me a full Lieutenant's two bars, which would have been the equivalent of Captain. That would have been better than if I'd have – I'm pretty sure better than my class mates had and I was really thinking very seriously about it, that if I did stay I would go in the navy. He was authorized even to give Bob Neale a Lieutenant Colonel, because Bob had been doing quite a lot of the work and was the squadron commander that had been in more action than most, than the others. So he was authorized to give him a Lieutenant Colonel, and for the extra two weeks that he stayed out there, he was a Commanding Officer of the army group, which was a little unusual to have a civilian as the Commanding Officer but Bob Neale stayed on for two weeks to help out, he was the CO of the group down there and Kweilin. Then when I started to come out of there, I don't think any of us thought the war was going to last 'til 1945. We all still had the idea we were gonna beat them a lot sooner than that and then when I got over to Din Jan and some of the guys had already stopped, they were flying the Hump, and actually before I joined the navy I was trying to get on to Pan Am working as a steward on their flying boats across the Pacific and I had a call to report the same time as I got a call to report for flight training so I �figured I'm not going to go work as a steward if I can go back as a pilot. So I went in the navy and I still had it in my mind that somewhere along the line when this war's over and I do my hitch in the navy I'm gonna work for Pan Am. When you live in San Francisco the flying boats on the Pacific were a pretty big thing there and so when we got over to Din Jan on our way out, they wanted to put us to work right then and there, flying the Hump, and a bunch of our guys did it, they stayed right on there and flew the Hump, but I said I want to go home first and then come back. FRANK BORING: How difficult was it to get home, to get your [?] back? DICK ROSSI: It got a little tough getting home because the word came out not to help anybody get home and the poor guys that stayed the extra two weeks had the worst of it. You would think they would have got the best of it for volunteering to stay two weeks, but they got the worst of it. They were completely cut off. The ones that left a little early, they got by before the word got out. By the time I reached Karachi which was the jumping off place, I was with two other AVG guys, Hennessy and Cavanagh, and we had all been talking to CNAC, and we had all said, "Yeah, I'd come back." "But," we said, "We’re gonna home now." So they said, "Okay, when you get to New York, report in to Pan Am," and they gave us a letter of introduction to Pan Am. So when we got to Karachi, there was a Colonel and a Major there that were out at the airport. They were sort of controlling the traffic, and when we got there, word had already come out from Chennault and Stillwell, and Bissell saying don't give AVG people any passage home. But too I had been over there earlier to pick up some P-43's for the Chinese Air Force and I'd met these Colonels and the Major in charge, and we had these letters from CNAC on Pan Am stationery, so he let us go through as Pan Am ferry pilots, as kind of a favor. We didn't appear as AVG, we appeared as Pan Am ferry pilots, because Pan Am was ferrying airplanes out there. So he gave us permission to buy a ticket on Pan Am. So we got on Pan Am and when we showed Pan Am these letters, they didn't even charge us for the ticket and once �we left Karachi we were okay. We hedge-hopped all the way across there on different planes 'til we got out to the west coast of Africa where we had to cross the Atlantic. A stratocruiser was going back to South America by way of Ascension Island, and so we got permission from Pan Am to ride on that. When we got out to Ascension Island, the plane broke down, – lost an engine. They were going to have to fly one in, and we spent the night in Ascension Island and they talked to the guy who was in charge of it – we got a tour of the island. Next morning there was a B24 came through from England and they were bringing some ferry pilots home so they could bring over some more B-24's and they had empty seats on there so they asked us if we wanted to ride to South America with them, so we said fine. We got on that and when we got to South America to the hotel, we went into the Pan Am office and said, "We were on the stratocruiser out there and so save our seats, we just came in on the B24 as we're heading for Miami." "Here we've got a plane in from Miami right now. You wanna get on it?" So we went and got on that and some navy pilot that I knew from before was flying it so we got up to Miami on that without even paying, so the three of us lucked out pretty well on that deal. FRANK BORING: How did you feel about having to go to all those lengths to get back? DICK ROSSI: I don't know. I didn't really give it that much thought as long as it was working, because the majority of people waited around Karachi until they saw it was hopeless, then I guess on the advice of the American Consul there, they went down to Bombay, where they a troop ship was going back, and one of the Matson liners had been converted, so they all got passage home on that ship out of Bombay. So we had quite a group on that one ship. FRANK BORING: But you felt no resentment after this year of combat and volunteering to be cut loose and told (inaudible)…? �DICK ROSSI: I guess we weren't that happy about it, that's for use. I think at that time, for a short period, there was a little period in there when there was a certain amount of resentment built up against Chennault. After he got to be a General, some of the guys got to thinking he's getting a little over eager, sending these damaged and patched up airplanes over enemy territory for no purpose. Not to catch anything but only as morale builders. You were over enemy territory, if the engine quits, you were down. If you were flying down to 1,000 ft. over the troops to build their morale, but anybody down there could take a rifle and take a shot at you. I think there was a certain feeling that he's pushing harder than he ever did. Of course, the airplanes were getting in worse shape, the guys were getting a little physically run down, so I guess it was kind of a culmination of all this, and then when over in Karachi they told us that the word came from Stillwell and Chennault that we weren't supposed to get rides home, not to help us, that didn't make anybody feel very good either. FRANK BORING: Looking back now, you'd think at least you could have got a ride home. DICK ROSSI: Bissell outranked Chennault just be an hour you might say. They both were given their promotion to Brigadier General but they definitely saw to it that Bissell got his ahead of Chennault, and when they had been in the service before, Chennault was senior to Bissell. So I got a feeling that it pretty much originated with Bissell because he was teed off that his message – he told the guys that if you don't stay out here, if you do go home, that we'll have the draught board waiting for you when you step ashore in the States, and you'll be in the walking army and this sort of thing. I think he was chagrined that he got such a small response is probably what caused it because, it wouldn't have hurt him to give 'em rides home. All their stuff was going home empty, they were bringing stuff out and going home empty so to speak. I rode in one C47 across one part of Africa that had nothing in it but a bunch of mattresses they were sending to some barracks somewhere. Of �course, we had it easy, we just went in the back, laid down on mattresses, although the cabin was full of iron mattresses! FRANK BORING: Looking back on it now, Dick, what do you feel about those days? What has remained, no so much the memories, but just what kind of feelings do you have looking back on that time? DICK ROSSI: Having gotten home from it okay, I'm certainly glad that I was there. I think that it was probably one of the major experiences and challenges in my life. It was something that was interesting, it was something that I felt was worthwhile. If I had foreseen probably that the war would have lasted this long, I would have probably stayed there and gone in the navy because that was another thing, I knew if I'd gone in the navy there, that they wouldn't let me there too long, that I would get to go home probably by the end of the year at least. But you can't foresee what's gonna happen tomorrow. No, I don't regret having gone out there at all. I think all of the stuff – there's a certain amount of things you tend to put up with and when a war comes along, you know you're gonna have to put up with a lot more things because – when we were in Magwe, conditions there were really primitive. It was kind of an unusual area, it was a desert area type, whereas the other parts were in Toungoo and Rangoon, they were more jungle type, lush greenery. Here in Magwe it was like a desert. We had sandstorms there that blew our tents away, we only had a couple or three tents out in the field. We were all living in one house. It was kind of rugged, yet when a war is on, you figure, this is it. What else can you do? Nobody's going to come out here and build a barracks. You just learn that this is how it is. All in all, I'm glad I went. FRANK BORING: What do you feel personally about what you did there in terms of your accomplishments there? What do you feel you did? DICK ROSSI: I don't know, I just felt that I went along and did my part, contributed to the group as much as I had the opportunity to and �was able to. When it came time to do anything, I was sent anywhere, I went. FRANK BORING: What do you feel about the AVG itself, what they did for that particular period of time? What sets them out from everything else that was going on in the war? DICK ROSSI: I think one of the things was that they were there when it started, and they were off of U.S. territory. They weren't, say, in Manilla where we in control, or in Hawaii, we were in a foreign country and we were there. One of the things that gets to be like a misconception, they have a tendency to say it was like a pick-up group. Actually every pilot out there came out of the service, was in the service in 1941 and was a trained military pilot. It wasn't like the Eagle Squadron was made up of people who couldn't make it in the military, or wanted to learn to fly or, maybe had never had – most of them probably had never had military training or weren't able to complete it. Everyone out there had been a military pilot in one phase or another, they weren't all in fighters, but adapting to that wasn't all that difficult because, when you were a cadet, you went through the different phases, so if they wanted you to be a patrol pilot, they put you in a patrol plane, if they wanted you to be a sea plane pilot, they put you in a sea plane, if they wanted you to be a carrier pilot, they put you in a carrier type plane. Of course, the carrier types weren't all fighters because they had the dive bombers and the scout planes. It wasn't just a pick-up group, everybody out there had been to military training and had put a certain amount of time in the service. FRANK BORING: There are not too many people that you could say that – what you did is in the history books and will probably always be in the history books. It was certainly in the minds and in the souls of the Chinese people, and as a major aspect of our own history, American history. How do you feel though personally, how do you feel the AVG fits into the scheme of things, so to speak? �DICK ROSSI: I don't know. If think if we had been a military outfit – say for example, if we had been a military unit out there, I don't know that it would have been all that different. If we'd had the same equipment, the same deal, and we'd been a military unit instead of a civilian unit, I don't know if there'd have been that much difference. We worked side by side with the RAF, and they didn't act like we were civilians instead of military pilots at all. We happened to be out at a time when two major – good news came to the States during a real idyllic time and that was Doolittle coming through and our group out there was some of the only good news they had from the Orient during that early months of the war. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rossi_Dick_1991-02-06_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rossi, John Richard "Dick" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Dick Rossi interview (video and transcript, 5 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of John Richard "Dick" Rossi by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dick Rossi served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader for the 1st Squadron, "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after being discharged from service in the US Navy, where he had been assigned as a flight instructor at Pensacola Naval Air Station. He arrived in Burma in November 1941 and began training on the P-40 airplanes, but had not yet completed his training when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Though officially attached to the 1st Squadron, he was also temporarily assigned to both the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons. In this tape, Rossi describes his own feelings in the final days of the AVG and their difficulties in returning to the United States, in addition to his overall thoughts on the group's success and place in history. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46f8d91f9fe47368df9c8f656628ed21.mp4 ed1f9063c42c1aeb0f7978d2444b3217 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90548cf2f5d8815a97f91cc193b8319d.pdf 157336cacd7a6f32bf3e829d5f58e54b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Richard “Dick” Rossi Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] DICK ROSSI: Bob Neale brought us in south over this little auxiliary field and – there were seven of us – and there were two airplanes on the ground, so we all went screaming down in single file to get a little strafe shot at them and set those on fire, and then he let us up over the hill, which was only about ten miles away to their main airport in Moulmein. I was flying on his wing and then George Burgard was flying on me, he didn't have a wing man because he was the one who had turned back and the rest were following us. I was flying on Bob Neale's right side, and Burgard has just moved up to my right side, because whenever you didn't have a wing man you'd usually just join up with somebody else, so Bob Neale came over the field and looked down and there were three airplanes had just taken off and three more were rolling down the runway. Bob started diving to the field and I was following him and George was following me. Normally, if you're flying and your wing man's on your right side, you'll pick out the plane on the left. I don't know, for some unexplainable reason, Bob Neale fired at the plane on the right, so I slid underneath him and took the one on the left. Burgard came in from somewhere, I don't know where he went, but we got two of the planes out of that flight, the three that had just gotten airborne. By the time that we got down there on top of them, they were just only, probably less than a hundred feet in the air. Then we turned around because some others had already taken off. One of them was coming right at me, I thought he was trying �to ram me, so I put the nose down and it brought me right over the little bay there of the town and we were at low altitude to start with so when I pulled up the nose I was only 25, 30 ft. off the ground or off the water, because I was going across the bay and then right in front of me was a ferry boat full of Japanese soldiers. It was right in my sight so I pulled the trigger, had all six guns flying there. I could see them diving all over the place and glass shattering on the boat, then pulled up over the top of it on the other side and came back around towards the field. Then I saw one plane chase them for five minutes and it turned out to be an RAF plane. I don't know where he was going but he wasted all that time, and by the time he got back, the action's practically all over and all gone again, so then we joined up and went back to Rangoon. While we were in Rangoon, most of those alerts we got, when they did materialize, were always in very large numbers. Bombers would be coming up in flights of anywhere from 18 to 30 or 40 or even 50 and they'd have a fighter escort of anywhere up to 40 airplanes and the fighters would fly in some real weird – the first time I saw them I couldn't believe it. It looked like a bunch of bees swarming around. They were at all altitudes, just weaving in and out, back and forth. I don't know exactly what the strategy was on that, figuring that there'd be someone from any place they could, and they were behind the bombers. So we'd usually hit the bombers first and then some guys would go off towards the fighters, some would stay on the bombers. When they were in this, beehive we used to call it, about all you could do was to kind of get up and get a little bit above them and then dive right through them and just pick out one that was the most likely to be able to do it, because they maneuver so fast, you picked one out too soon he wouldn't be there by the time you could close in. Because they were just flying around, just like a swarm of bees. So we'd dive through them. A lot of times you'd dive through and you might have one or a second picked out and by the time you get there, you might just be going through and not even get a shot at anybody, pull up the other side and come again, and do it again but were gone. When they got into that they was none of this two plane formation because if you did, you'd be �wasting half your airplanes. There wasn't much that you could do if you flew watching the other guy and not watching the enemy, because there's no way you're really gonna protect him, unless some guy's pretty far behind him because if you're right on him, you're semi flying formation and you can't watch all that stuff. It's not like when you're doing so much long range and like today's fighters that take some six and seven miles to make a turn because of the speed they're going, but we could make turns pretty sharply and of course they could make them about five times as sharply. So there's a lot of milling around goes on up there. The bombers always stayed pretty much in formation if they were able to. If they got an engine shot out and had to drop back they might do it but then they were usually gone, that was probably their swan song. But they generally kept their really good formation; if any of them were shot down they'd move right up and just keep filling the formation, tightening up. One guy went down, another guy would move into his place, they kept pretty good formations. FRANK BORING: When you engaged the enemy, just generally, how many AVG planes would be up there to take on these groups that you're talking about? DICK ROSSI: That would vary quite a bit and some of our days in Rangoon especially when it really started getting bad when we were having several alerts during the day, we might start out in the morning with as many as 14 airplanes and maybe only have four, five or six ready to be able to go up on a last alert. Then of course, there were always a few of the British that were going up there also. It varied quite a bit. Then overnight, we'd try to get all the planes back in commission, so usually in the morning, we had the most airplanes available, and we were only putting together maybe 16 airplanes maximum in one of those deals. But it was kind of hard to have all 16 of them flying. �FRANK BORING: You started to describe this daily routine of two or three alerts a day. How often was this going on? How did you get to sleep? What was your routine like during that period? DICK ROSSI: One of the things that we began to appreciate down there was cloudy nights, because usually on cloudy nights, they didn't come over, and they didn't come over much on really dark nights. But on the moonlit nights, they always had some planes come over, but they'd only send maybe three at a time in a formation. But they'd send them over two or three times a night, just enough to ruin your sleep. But they didn't come over all the time. Maybe we'd go two or three days, or even maybe just two days with some pretty heavy alerts and some pretty good scores, they might not come back for about a week or five or six days, so if about two days would go by with nothing happening, then we'd go over and kind of flush them out, or see what was going on, because we figured they'd got a build-up on somewhere. So we would usually send out some flights to go over to the closer airports that we knew they had, and see what they had on the ground, and of course, every time we did that, they'd be over the next day. And every time we'd go over to – or even if we went early in the morning, they might even be over in the afternoon, but almost inevitably every time we ran one of these missions over there, they would retaliate. FRANK BORING: One of the last major battles of the AVG was at Salween Bridge and we have very sketchy information regarding that. Were you involved in that? DICK ROSSI: No, I was on a ferry trip at that time, I missed that whole thing. Charlie Bond was in that heavily and Bob Neale. FRANK BORING: What would you say was your most ferocious battle? What was the one that sticks out in your mind? DICK ROSSI: I don't know, it's kind of hard to say. I'm not even sure the most ferocious sticks out the most. Actually my first one sticks out more �because a week after that battle over there, I picked up a hitchhiking British officer and was talking to him. Of course they all knew our group and was talking to him about that fight over Tavoy. And he said he was on the ground at that time, that the Japs had taken the field and they were hiding out in the jungle, and they had to walk quite a distance before they could get out. He was there and witnessed my fight and he told me that that plane on my last pass that I hit him and he crashed into the hangar there, but unfortunately that was long after the combat report went in. Now that one stands out. The ones in the last days – the ones that were really the worst, they're like blur's to a certain amount, because there was so much going on in one day and they were so busy when you were there, they got to be blur's. It's hard to remember them. I think it's easier to remember the ones that were a little less hectic, like when we went to Kweilin and they bombed Kweilin just before we got up there. We sneaked in in the evening and then we were up in the morning early. We expected they'd send an observation plane over, which they always did. So we said, "When they send that over, as soon as he goes home we'll send some and we'll be up." Then we decided, "Let's not wait." So we went up in the air, and sure enough they come over and we were already up in the air, and they come over with the bombers and the fighters, and this got really interesting, even though it wasn't that big an engagement, they had a fair amount of bombers and they sent some twin engine fighters that we weren't familiar with. Most of the guys that were up fighting them mistook them for bombers. They thought they were just small, light bombers. They were twinengined fighters, and I remember Joe Rosbert – he was ordered not to get behind the bombers and get in their rear gunner's view. He was making head on passes at them, and then when he shot a couple of them down, they had canons in the nose, and he was making head on passes at canons, so it wasn't all that good strategy as it turns out, but we were pretty lucky that day. Two planes I guess got hurt. I think Charlie Bond might have had to bail out that day and Al Wright got hit and he crashed, he tried to land but he come up a little short and he busted up the airplane just at the end �of the runway. But the fight took place right over the field. It was smaller and there were fewer airplanes involved but it was interesting and they got anywhere from ground level up to about 18,000 ft. because they ended up finally around Kweilin. I think you've probably seen terrain pictures at Kweilin with these cones where they were chasing each other round the cones, around these little mountain type cones, and down there all our stuff was in operations, our stuff was in caves because most of these cones or these mountains had caves in them. They were just like they were air-conditioned there. Chennault had his headquarters in one of the caves in the field. It was pretty interesting then. FRANK BORING: In terms of the last few days, it was a lot of hectic fighting. It was heard I believe that AVG was going to disband and Bissell arrives on the scene, if you could just explain about that particular period of time. DICK ROSSI: The rumors started as far back as January and February that we were going to be pulled back into the service and nobody really knew for sure what was gonna happen and somewhere along in that area Chennault was given his commission in the air corps and was still of course in charge of us, but he actually was in the army, and we kept wondering what are they gonna do. We kept hoping they'd keep us a unit and let us continue that way for a while, but everybody I guess had mixed emotions it, then when this induction board finally arrived, they were very undiplomatic. They were colonels that had overblown egos I guess, like Colonel Bissell and they didn't really come out and request you join, they threatened with what would happen if you didn't join. Now there's a lot of stories about it and they stories vary a little bit for the simple reason that they were recruiting or doing this induction in several different places. They had some that took place in Kunming, some that took place in Chung King and I was down in Kweilin when they came down to Kweilin and asked for them, because our group went up to Chung King, but we were only there about two days, our squadron, and then we were sent to Kweilin, so we were down �at Kweilin, and like I say, we had action right away when we got there. They had already bombed the city before, then we got there and had this battle over the city and capturing Japanese airmen and shot down a bunch, so the town really threw a big party for us and everything, the city was really great, they had these school kids singing songs for us, they took up collections and they had fruit and all kinds of stuff, they gave a party for us, gave us leaflets, "Our heroes" and that sort of thing. It wasn't very long after though than they were heading for Hengyang and Ling Ling which were two more bases along that same line, so one day they told – in the meantime some B-25's from the army air corps arrived, and they were gonna go on a mission. Chennault wanted them to go down to Hankow and hit some of these Japanese airplanes there, so they wanted some of us to go up and escort them on a mission. They were gonna take off from Hengyang and go to Hankow, so they sent about half a dozen of us up there. He said, "Go up to Hengyang, escort the bombers over and then come back. So we took off, went to Hengyang, the weather turned out that we couldn't have the mission, so we landed and I was there with no baggage, ten days in the same clothes, very uncomfortable living and conditions, the food was pretty bad. Fortunately I always carried my toothbrush in my shirt pocket because I never knew where I was gonna end up. But all I had was the toothbrush and nothing else. It rained in for ten days, and there were a few breaks in the clouds at night, and the funny thing was they'd come over and bomb at night, but just one or two or three airplanes. So you'd miss your sleep, because I remember running out of that house one night and seeing this little tiny hole there, and Bus Loane and I were both running for it and there was no way it was big enough for two people, but some way or other we both got in it. We were close enough to that string of bombs that the mud splattered and the mud hit us, where the bombs hit the ground. We were splattered with mud from the concussion. I'll tell you though, the biggest relief you can have is when you hear bombs coming closer and closer and the next one's passed you. That is one of the greatest sounds you ever heard, they've passed us! �FRANK BOSSI: When Bissell arrived, what did you do, they called you together into a room or…? DICK ROSSI: I can't remember the speech. I was at Kweilin and they were just trying to get different guys, whoever weren't doing anything, between mechanics between their working on the airplanes and the pilots that weren't standing on alert by the airplane, one guy would relieve another guy and go up there and I think one of the hardest things that we had was to say no to the old man. None of us minded no to Bissell, but the hardest thing was saying no to the old man, because everybody respected the old man and they hated to see him stuck there with nobody staying, I think that was the hardest part. But it turned out only five pilots really stayed and I know Tex Hill and Rector didn't plan to stay, they just didn't have the heart to leave the old man there. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rossi_Dick_1991-02-06_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rossi, John Richard "Dick" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Dick Rossi interview (video and transcript, 4 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of John Richard "Dick" Rossi by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dick Rossi served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader for the 1st Squadron, "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after being discharged from service in the US Navy, where he had been assigned as a flight instructor at Pensacola Naval Air Station. He arrived in Burma in November 1941 and began training on the P-40 airplanes, but had not yet completed his training when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Though officially attached to the 1st Squadron, he was also temporarily assigned to both the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons. In this tape, Rossi describes the conditions in the air when the AVG pilots were engaging with the enemy, in addition to the hectic fighting that was taking place during the final days of the AVG and around the time of General Bissell's arrival. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/33346dd391a7e72530d113817d91b00b.mp4 959467a9c2d5d7d0cdcc8ba45bd4deae https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b6f2af6dee38d032e46c81c1f1dda00e.pdf bfccfa212b554939b20d48827520aaf1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Richard “Dick” Rossi Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: The P-40 itself, the actual details of turning the thing on and having to pull this and push that, it was pretty complicated wasn't it? Just to start the engine and get it off the ground? DICK ROSSI: Not any more I think than the dive bomber or another service plane. FRANK BORING: In December, when you heard about Pearl Harbor, what was your reaction? DICK ROSSI: When we got up - we were up and had breakfast, were down at the field as was our routine because, out there, it was a Monday and we'd had the weekend off. We went down Monday for our routine stuff, and someone that early morning – one of the guys came down and told us that we were at war, the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. Of course, we were all waiting for the gag line, we thought it was a joke of some kind. By that time, the guy who printed our old bulletin, we had a little bulletin that we put out there that came down with all the scoop and the radio broadcast. Now everybody began to believe it, everyone was getting excited. They started to issue gas masks and steel helmets, and one had a couple of planes up in the air on alert because we had been observed a few times by high flying Japanese observation planes in Toungoo, because they had taken part of Thailand and some of the places over there and �they had a field not too far away. A couple of times we saw one of their observation planes flying overhead. So we thought that the first thing they'd do was come over there and try to wipe us out. They had two planes in the air all day and they never ever did come over. FRANK BORING: So now you were on alert. What were the next few days like? DICK ROSSI: Everything was a little chaotic. They were – we had been prepared to move to Kunming anyway, and now, of course, they wanted to speed the move to Kunming, convoys were being prepared to go up the road and haul all the material up that they could, and the airplanes were being prepared to fly up and the British wanted us to go down to Rangoon and, of course, the higher authority was deciding what was gonna happen in that case. Everything was kind of on a– immediately went to a, you might say, restricted type of operation. You couldn't just take off and go to town if it was your day off; you had to get permission from the squadron. It was just being prepared that we were in a war and we'd got to be watching it if we weren't gonna get caught with our pants down. We fully expected that they'd be over and try to put our planes out of commission. FRANK BORING: But it wasn't until the 20th, from the 7th to the 20th, that they actually did come over. DICK ROSSI: They didn't come over Toungoo, they came over Kunming. But they had been coming over Kunming – they were over Kunming, I believe, on the 18th and that was the day we went up there. We flew up – the 1st and 2nd squadron went to Kunming on the 18th. In the meantime, before this, the 3rd squadron had been sent down to Rangoon to work with the RAF and our convoys were going up the road – as a matter of fact, some of the convoys had already departed before Pearl Harbor and before we heard about it, because the bulk of our ammunition was on trucks going up the road. We were a little short of ammunition in that early phase. Fortunately �we didn't get into any action or need it. But the bulk of it was on the trucks going up the road. Our group, we got up there on the 18th and there was quite a bit of damage in Kunming that had bombed that day, and then nothing happened on the 19th, and then on the 20th, they came over. And that was the first contact we had with them, and then they didn't come over to Kunming again for more than a year. I don't know when they came back again. In the meantime, a few more days went by, then the action really started heavy in Rangoon. I think on the 23rd it started. FRANK BOSSI: What was your first battle? What was your first actual confrontation with the Japanese? DICK ROSSI: Our squadron was up in Kunming when we had the first deal, but it was my day off so I didn't get in that one. Then the 3rd squadron was in very heavy action on the 23rd and the 25 of December, so Chennault decided to replace them right around the first of the year, and the 2nd squadron went to Rangoon to replace the 3rd, and they were down there for about a week and the action was picking up pretty good, so they said they would like some more help. So Chennault said he'd send eight members from our squadron down there to help out with them. So I was in that eight that was going down there. Bob Neale was taking us down there and we went down to Rangoon, and we were there for a while and we got a call one morning that they wanted two P-40's to escort some British bombers over to the Moulmein area. They had two Brewster Buffaloes, the RAF, two of our P-40's and we were supposed to escort, I thought, three Blenheim's, and we were over there to evacuate a field called Tavoy, which was south of Moulmein. We were going over to evacuate some British personnel. As it turned out there were actually six bombers, the other three joined later and I didn't hear anything in the briefing. We didn't get much briefing, they just said follow the RAF boys, and I was flying on a Brewster and the other fellow, Frank Raleigh was flying on one, and we started to cross, escorting these three Blenheim's. The three others joined us down below, I never even �saw them and we ran into a heavy fog bank, and we lost each other. So I just moved in closer to the Britisher, I figured he had the full briefing, he knew where we were going, and I stayed very close to him, and in the fog you've got to stay pretty close to not get lost. When we came out along the coast across the Gulf of Martaban and come along the coast there at Tavoy? Where we were supposed to ask. We were just supposed to stay there and fly cover on them while they picked up these people, evacuated them and go back to Rangoon. When we come out there, it was clear and sunny, the fog ended right at the water line, but there was nobody around but myself and the other Buffalo, the RAF pilot. So we just started circling the field and we hadn't climbed up very high, so we just went down to around 1,000 ft. and we were circling the field. What we didn't know was that Japanese had captured it in the meantime. So when we were circling around, he was one side of the field, I was on the other. We were just going around in circles, kind of keeping an eye on each other. I happened to be heading towards the sea side where there were some more mountains on the north side of the bay there, I saw three planes come over the horizon, over the trees there at that hill, and I thought they were Japanese. It turned out they were the Blenheim's, the British planes. I thought they were Japanese and I flew immediately across the field to motion to the RAF pilot what was going on so he'd turn around and look because he was flying with his back toward them at the time. I started out in that direction and about then I saw some Japanese fighters diving on these planes and I saw three more appear over the hill, so there were six of the Blenheim's and the Jap fighters were diving on them, so they hurriedly dived and took off, went back into the fog and the fighters came over towards the field and so that's where we ran into them. I started making head on passes at one, or he started at me and I started at him and that was my first time in combat. We made about four head on passes at each other and neither one being able to get the nose up high enough to get him because of the bullets falling short, he kept diving underneath me and I couldn't get my nose far enough to put a lead in front of him to lead him enough, and then as soon as he �got behind me, he'd immediately roll right up and turn over [?] to get on my tail, but we were much faster than they were and I'd be far enough away that I could go out a little bit and turn around again and about the third time I thought I was gonna really get him this time, I'll put the nose down and start firing about twice as early as I should so he'd have to fly through my line of fire to go underneath me, and when he made that last pass at me and I pulled up – I was getting ready to pull up and turn around and see what happened to him, when I had run right into a nest of them. They'd seen us making these deals and three of them were there waiting for me to make my turn. I saw all these tracers flying around so I forgot all about that other airplane. I put the nose down and went heading out for the fog bank. I went out in it and climbed up until I could get the high altitude and headed up north because I didn't have enough gas by then. You use quite a bit of gas when you're into that type of thing, because you've got your throttle pretty far open. I didn't have enough to get back to Rangoon so I knew we had this field up north at Moulmein so I went up there – figured I could get some refueling up there. Before I got there I climbed up to 12,000 ft. and just got over the field, getting ready to let down – I had the field in site, I wasn't quite over it – when I saw some more fighters up there and I thought, oh, no, here I am out of gas. It turned out they were P-40's going on a mission somewhere into one of the fields in Thailand, so I landed there. The other British pilot, not the one that was with me but the other one, was also there. He'd got some holes in his oil tank and he was already on the ground refueling and patching up his oil tank. When I got on the ground I saw I had a hole in my propeller, but it turned out I had fired – it was my own bullet from 50 calibers shot right through the propeller, got out of synchronization. We refueled but it took a while to refuel – you had to take it out of 50 gallon drums, strain it through a chamois, into your tank, and by the time you'd do that and fill up your tanks, quite a lot of time goes by. So we finally got our gasoline replaced and were heading up for – were gonna go back but he had this hole in his oil tank again. He was afraid that if the thing came apart and he lost all his oil, he'd have to put it down �somewhere. So instead of flying across the bay or the gulf, he said, "I'd like to fly along the shoreline and have you follow me. If I go down you can tell them where I am", which I did because we'd patched his oil tank by just putting a plug of wood in and tying a rag round it. He made it all the way back and I made it, but we were about two and a half, three hours long overdue past our fuel range, and they were already dividing our stuff, you know, because they figured they'd had us already. FRANK BORING: If you could describe, when you're up in the air with your squadron with a bunch of the other guys – you didn't have radios. DICK ROSSI: Yeah, we had them, they didn't always work. FRANK BORING: Could you talk a little about that – how you communicated with each other. DICK ROSSI: In those days, radio was just kind of new to us to a certain extent and you'd been trained to do a lot of your stuff with signals, especially if you're fly in formation in smaller airplanes, single engine airplanes. But we did have radio, they just didn't work half the time. If the radio didn't work we'd just go back to hand signals. If the radios worked, then we'd use 'em. Sometimes you'd be talking to somebody and realize nobody's hearing me, my transmitter's out or something. You don't realize it for a while. It was a kind of hit or miss type of thing. A lot of the radios weren't military radios, they were like radios that should have been in a cub or something like that, like small, light commercial planes. They just used whatever they could get their hands on. FRANK BORING: How about the gun sights? As I understand the gun sights weren't exactly conventional either. DICK ROSSI: The gun sights were a little bit primitive. We had some that were electric gun sights and some that were the sights like you have on a rifle with a cross hair and the little one out in front which are – I �forget the name of it – on the tip of a rifle. You just had one up on the far end of your engine and one up close and you lined the cross hairs up on that other, but then we had those sort of calibrated to where they were supposed to hit at about 600 ft. If you were about 600 ft., you'd make a direct aim otherwise you had to allow a little bit to raise it or lower it. But of course, as you got closer, it still would bear in, and every 3rd or 4th round, whatever it was, we had an incendiary bullet, so you could see the smoke. So you knew pretty much where your firing was going, it was kind of like aiming a hose of water or something. You can see where it's going. With incendiary bullets, tracers as we called them, you could see where your firing was going, so you had a pretty good clue as to when it was falling short or going over them, or whatever. FRANK BORING: What was your fiercest battle, where was the one you think out of all the ones that you had was really a… (break) DICK ROSSI: ……………… a light fragile sight to a certain extent, and they had a speed limitation. If they tried to dive too fast… FRANK BORING: Go ahead, talk about the P-40 and the Zeros. DICK ROSSI: One of our advantages in the P-40 was the speed we had. We had pretty good flat speed, but we had exceptional diving speed, and what we would like to essentially was to try to get above them. When we came down on top of them we'd be going so much faster that even if they turned to try to follow us, they were just too late, we were gone. The Japanese Zero had kind of a restriction on their diving speed. If they dived too fast, they got to a point where they lost the control of [?]. They were like frozen, and they lost their maneuverability, and so they could only dive and their planes were much more fragile and not as tough. They couldn't take the beating that our planes could take. Our planes could take a real heavy beating and still be structurally sound whereas they would come apart a lot easier when they got hit in a vital spot. We came up �against a lot of their 97's which was a fixed gear type of plane and it was even more so, slower and more fragile, but on the other hand, was maneuverable, they could turn inside of a dime. They could really just maneuver those things, they could just pull up and get behind you so quickly, you wouldn't believe it. FRANK BORING: This was one of the innovations that Chennault came up with and he taught you, as I understand it, not to take on the Japanese one on one, that there was a certain pattern, there's a certain thing that you should do. What was that, what was the training that he gave you in terms of fighting the Japanese Zero? DICK ROSSI: One of the first things that we heard when we were there was that we couldn't maneuver with them, that we couldn't maneuver, we couldn't maneuver sometimes say like a Brewster Buffalo hardly. That was one of the first things that we hear people talking about. Like I say, our group, the group I went out with got there late, we missed a good part of that, but when we got down to Rangoon, we're talking to the guys who'd already been up in a half a dozen or more fights, and after every fight, we sat around and talked about it, and everybody's giving some ideas, and you pick up a lot of things that help guys get out of trouble, and it starts building up. You just build up a background in that. FRANK BORING: What kind of things came up in these conversations? DICK ROSSI: The main thing was like, the guys who bailed out, got shot at on the way down. "When you bale out, don't pull the rip cord too soon. Try to maneuver things so you're moving. You're not just hanging there, a dead target. You wanna yank on your rip cord's and keep that thing swinging, so that it's harder for them to strafe you and if you see anybody in a parachute going down, get over right away so that somebody can't come in, so you can help them or save them, protect them. Things like that would come out of all the bull sessions after each fight, and course, guys would tell about the mistakes they'd made, firing too soon or whatever. A lot of �things happened – dive to get away but dive too much, instead of diving down about 3,000 ft., they'd dive about 10,000. You learned quite a lot just in the bull sessions after each engagement. When our squadron was down there, especially in the last weeks, they were coming over so often, that everything was getting chaotic. It was hard to remember from morning to night what the heck happened. Was that today or yesterday? They were just going up – we were getting three or four alerts a day. It was really hard to remember to recall a lot of that stuff. You start thinking and trying to recall back of certain things that happened to you and it's hard to pin it down to this – was it the afternoon or was it the morning? One flight we were on with Bob Neale, we had planned a mission over to Moulmein, because by this time it had been taken by the Japanese, and we were gonna take eight airplanes and go over there see what we could find, see if we could strafe them, see if we could catch any. About the time we were getting ready to go, we get an alert that the Japs were coming in and we took off. Our group went up, one of them had an engine problem and had to go back, but the rest of us went up. So by the time we climbed up to altitude and we usually start out to the east if we feel we got enough warning because that's where they come from. If we feel we don't have enough warning we'd fly out to the west and climb to get our altitude before they got a chance to get above us. This time we were flying out in that direction and by the time we got up there, they said it's a false alarm. Nobody coming. So Bob Neale says, "We might as well go and finish our mission then, we'll go on our mission." So we did. We went across to Moulmein and got near the water and came down, and there was a little field over the hill from Moulmein south of it which was just an auxiliary field. FRANK BORING: Stop there. (Inaudible) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rossi_Dick_1991-02-06_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rossi, John Richard "Dick" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Dick Rossi interview (video and transcript, 3 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of John Richard "Dick" Rossi by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dick Rossi served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader for the 1st Squadron, "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after being discharged from service in the US Navy, where he had been assigned as a flight instructor at Pensacola Naval Air Station. He arrived in Burma in November 1941 and began training on the P-40 airplanes, but had not yet completed his training when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Though officially attached to the 1st Squadron, he was also temporarily assigned to both the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons. In this tape, Rossi discusses his reaction to the news of Pearl Harbor and the following days being on alert. He also goes into detail on his first battle with the Japanese and how Chennault's training was put into practice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ea192ff72fc0a44e2c309dd1bd3a563b.mp4 780219a890680c30a589002bccf0f84f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5b0d52e6751925d52215eca1996d3acf.pdf 3a84989b8043a0a75cbcee2913a1daec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Richard “Dick” Rossi Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] DICK ROSSI: Our crews out there were pretty interesting crews. We went on board the ship, we were all supposed to be sort of incognito and around San Francisco, we didn't go out there as pilots, we went out there as a whole bunch of different things. Boyington was a missionary, I was a skilled laborer, we had farmers, and we had a little bit of everything on the list. Nobody was really paying that much attention to us, I guess, except possibly one bar in San Francisco and the people on board the ship weren't exactly sure who we were at first, but I think after a week or so watching us, they decided we weren't missionaries, though I believe they had made the mistake once of offering Boyington conduct services, and he got out of that one all right. But it didn't take them too long to – they started to stay a little bit to themselves, but there were a few that got a little friendly, and were telling us somewhat about the Orient, most of them had been out there before. There were also amongst them a couple of navy pilots who were still on their way to Surabaya, so we had kind of a different kind of group there and nobody really questioned us very much. I guess the Japs probably heard and knew we were on the way, I don't know, they had enough spies going around, but it didn't seem to be much of a deal. We were told naturally, not to discuss this and tell anybody where we were or why we were going there. I don't know just how much curiosity evoked from other people. �FRANK BORING: What were your first recollections of your arrival? You arrived in Toungoo first, is that right? Or Rangoon? DICK ROSSI: Rangoon. After we left Singapore, the ship went up to Rangoon and we pulled in at Rangoon, and then we had to go through the customs clearance and all this stuff and we were met by some members from the group and we were gathered and put on a train to ride up to Toungoo which was maybe 180 miles or so north from Rangoon. Somewhere along the way – I didn't take part in looking around town or anything like that because when I arrived I already had a telegram that my dad had passed away while I was on the ship. So I was feeling too much to go out and celebrate and look around much, so I just waited and got my baggage and boarded the train with the rest of us, and we arrived up in Toungoo in the evening. FRANK BOSSI: If you could go over again the first AVG, second AVG, the third AVG and what happened in Cherlamar [?]. DICK ROSSI: When we were recruited amongst some of the information that we were told was that – we signed up as the first American Volunteer Group and we were a fighter group. We were told the second American Volunteer Group would be a bomber group, and that the third group – all three were authorized would be another fighter group and they would be following us out there. Part of the deal that we understood was that they had planned to do some bombing against the Japanese, naturally not as Americans, or not as American Air Force, but this information was generally known throughout our group and Charlie Mott was told by General Chennault that he would be put in charge of the bomber group when they arrived. They were on the high seas on their way out when Pearl Harbor happened so they were diverted to Australia and put back in the air force. I don't know if they were all army or not in that group. �FRANK BORING: Who were the first people, the official representatives from the AVG that you met when you first got there? Was it Chennault right away or…? DICK ROSSI: I didn't see Chennault right away, he wasn't there at the time when we arrived. He'd been up in China and we were met by some of the members who had come down, some of the squadron leaders, and some of the people from CAMCO. At that time, CAMCO was pretty active in looking after the people, seeing that they arrived and were sent up to Toungoo, that they were paid or whatever they needed. Almost everybody ran short of money by the time they got there. We didn't start out with too much in our pockets, and then during stays over in Singapore and Java, we spent more than we had, and so everybody was a little hard pressed for money and CAMCO had someone down there to take care of that so that we got advances and whatever. They sent us on up to Toungoo and when we arrived at Toungoo it was late in the evening and everybody, most everybody had someone there they knew because they were either class mates or squadron mates or something like that. So you'd run into somebody you knew and you didn't even know that they had gone to Burma. Like I'd run into a class mate, I'd been with him in Pensacola but then he'd gone to the fleet and I didn't know he'd signed up. Everybody it seemed ran into somebody that they'd known previously in the service. FRANK BOSSI: What were your first impressions when you arrived in Toungoo? What were the first things that were going through your mind? DICK ROSSI: We were all a little bit surprised that we were gonna be in Toungoo, because we all thought we were going directly to China. China was supposed to have everything set up for us, our quarters and living accommodations, and they were behind schedule on all this stuff and a lot of people were arriving, they didn't have their living accommodations ready, and they made an arrangement with the British that we could borrow and use this field in Burma for training purposes, and as kind of a waiting place also until our �quarters and accommodations in China were prepared. So we were all surprised at that, but we were lucky because we got there late in November and we weren't there much over a month. Some of the boys had been in that area since the beginning of the summer, and accommodations were fairly primitive and GI style. We were living in one big, long barracks, the whole squadron, our squadron was all in one long open barracks, but it wasn't much worse than we had as cadets I guess, other than the mosquitoes and the bugs and the scorpions and stuff, but it wasn't all that different and we weren't all that old that we were worried about it. A few were, there were guys who turned around and went home as soon as they saw the place. I think most of us were curious to see what the future held, what was going happen later, what it would be like in China. Because we'd heard some real favorable stories about our accommodations in China that we were gonna have, quarters that were built down along the lake, and we'd have real pleasant housing and that there'd be cabaret girls up there for dancing and parties, that would be up from Shanghai and Hong Kong. A lot of this, of course, didn't materialize and they ended up converting a university into one of the hostels and the other one was a small hostel that was out near the field, it was a whole series of small adobe buildings, but they were new, they had just been repaired for something like this, I don't know exactly what it was. The Chinese they took care of all our accommodations and food and housing in China. They had a group called the War Service Area Corps and they handled all that part of it. But when we were down in Toungoo it was a little more complicated, I don't know exactly how it was done originally because I guess CAMCO was responsible for the food, the British were supplying the field and the housing, and when later we went down to Rangoon to help the British, they also supplied the housing and the food down there. FRANK BOSSI: How was the relationship between the AVG and the British? DICK ROSSI: With the British pilots and the British RAF personnel, we got along pretty well. We didn't do too well with the higher up British �or the colonials, as we called them, the Colonel Blimps. These guys were guys who were mostly cast-offs that couldn't make it in the service and they'd farm them out into the empire. They were the ones in charge and as everyone saw later, how woefully inadequate they were, and they were the dregs really. But the actual RAF people that we worked with in Burma, we got along very well with them. A lot of them had been in the Battle of Britain already and had combat experience and some pretty rough times. The pilots that we were associated with came from everywhere. There were Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, English, they were from all over. We got along very well with them. The ground personnel, the enlisted personnel were British, they were very good to get along with because they – we treated them a lot better I think than they were used to and they became very friendly with us, and they just wanted to work for us – be assigned to us. FRANK BOSSI: When you first arrived there, a lot of you did not have the training experience, specifically before you experienced – what did you talk about – Chennault taught kindergarten I guess. If you could begin by saying when you first met Chennault and then go into perhaps an explanation of what it was like to train under Chennault. DICK ROSSI: I don't have that much background as many of them did because we arrived there very close to the middle of November, and as you know, Pearl Harbor came along the 8th December up there. When Chennault came – when we first met him and he was introduced to us, I think everybody was impressed by him. He was sort of commanding man. He seemed to know what he was talking about, he had a nice attitude. He could make you want to do your most, your best for him. The training that we had, of course, because of our late arrival, and originally Chennault had talked about running a kindergarten. It turned out that very few of the pilots who were signed up and went out there had every flown a P-40. As a matter of fact many of us had never even seen a P-40. The navy didn't �have any and I didn't see any, and I don't know how many of the army pilots had flown them, but it was very few. So they had to get used to it, and amongst that group we had pilots from everything. We had B17 pilots, we had patrol boat pilots, we had sea plane pilots, we had dive bomber pilots, and we had a minimum really of fighter pilots. The ones who were most likely in our group, or the navy group, to be fighter pilots were the ones who had come out of the marine corps but then as it turned out the majority of the pilots there were from the navy and the marine corps. So that wasn't that much army background. On the other hand, the only terminology that we had about the airplane was from the army boys, so we immediately were calling it P-40 most of the time, and when we were in Rangoon it was frequently called the Tomahawk because that's what the RAF and British pilots called it. It was a matter of getting used to the airplane, and since it's a single seater, you have to go up and make your first flight by yourself. We had quite a lot of them, not so much when I was there but the group that had been there already had smashed an awful lot of airplanes in proportion, figuring that we were already trained pilots and had already had their wings, that they didn't break up a large percentage in the training program. When one of the group in our last shipment broke up an airplane, the old man come out and said nobody could ride in the P-40 until they took up advanced training and had a few hops in the advanced trainer, which was a two seater type, like the AT6 or the SNJ, and so that slowed things down a little bit, because when that was out of commission, you couldn't get a ride in it. At any rate, they worked it out that we all took some hops in that, which was a good idea because it got you back. We'd been out to sea for six or seven weeks and the guys hadn't flown for several months, and a lot of us weren't familiar with that airplane. That airplane flew along real nicely, but when you chopped the throttle on it, the nose just fell right up. They aimed for the ground immediately. Some of us that had been stuck in the primary, you could stop the engine, it didn't make any difference. You'd just float it right along the same as before. But in that P-40, when you cut the power off, that nose just when right for the ground. You �had to be ready for it. It took a little time, but then too they explained that all to you before you'd get in the airplane and go. We didn't do too badly in our group in checking out. FRANK BOSSI: You were trained also in who you were going to be fighting, the Japanese Zero itself in that war, or the airmen you were going to be fighting. Chennault was, as I understand it, rather specific as to what you were gonna be up against. DICK ROSSI: Chennault had been giving flight instruction ever since the summer, and of course a lot of people had heard all these lectures and all. Our lectures were pretty limited because we only had a few weeks, and then a lot of them hadn't even checked out and gotten around to flying the P-40 in our group, when Pearl Harbor hit. I'd only been in it a few times myself when it hit. We hadn't had time to do formation flying or gunnery flying or any of that stuff. Of course, our course of instruction was very limited compared to the ones that arrived out there early in the summer. FRANK BORING: Did you feel prepared when you first got out there to go to fight, did you feel prepared? DICK ROSSI: Not really. I'd only fired the guns about once or twice on the airplane before. About the third time I fired the gun on the P-40 I was firing at a Japanese airplane. Some of the training – even at the end of January, some of the people hadn't even been checked out in a P-40 of our group. As a matter of fact, that's why some of them left and went home. They were at war and they wanted to get in it, so they went back to the navy or wherever they were from. FRANK BORING: On November, I guess it was the 8th where you were, you were in Rangoon at that time, when Pearl Harbor happened? DICK ROSSI: In Toungoo FRANK BORING: Toungoo, okay. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rossi_Dick_1991-02-06_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rossi, John Richard "Dick" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Dick Rossi interview (video and transcript, 2 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of John Richard "Dick" Rossi by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dick Rossi served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader for the 1st Squadron, "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after being discharged from service in the US Navy, where he had been assigned as a flight instructor at Pensacola Naval Air Station. He arrived in Burma in November 1941 and began training on the P-40 airplanes, but had not yet completed his training when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Though officially attached to the 1st Squadron, he was also temporarily assigned to both the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons. In this tape, Rossi describes his first recollections of the AVG's arrival in Rangoon and later in Toungoo by train, in addition to his first meeting with CAMCO and General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/612f06b4053895de77cada624baa1853.mp4 002e39c10f8fd4bd1c376a9594793f78 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7a122a652de439360ed11eb8a0f10363.pdf 1b3ae003246b07bff37cdbd6dc104be9 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Richard “Dick” Rossi Date of Interview: 02-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: Dick, we'd like to start off with this: what were you doing prior to your first contact with the AVG? DICK ROSSI: I was instructing in the Navy in Pensacola and I was instructing in a primary squadron, and I'd been doing that for almost a year when the recruiters came around, and of course, there was an opportunity to get away. One of the things that the people are like when you're first learning to fly, you keep going through more and more advance airplanes, and when you finally get your wings, you've flown, as they call them, service type planes, now you want to get out into the fleet so you can fly nothing but the heavy equipment and the powerful equipment. When you get assigned back as an instructor, to teaching, again you're back into the ones you started with instead of getting to fly that, and so I think there were a bunch of us in that category, we were really eager to get out and do something that was a little more interesting. FRANK BORING: What were you doing prior to your first contact with the AVG? DICK ROSSI: When I first heard about the AVG, that they were recruiting pilots for China, I was instructing primary training down in Pensacola and I'd been doing that for about a year. Naturally, I was anxious to get out into the fleet to fly service planes and do more combat type training than instructing in primary, and so this was a good �opportunity to do something like that, and I think there were quite a few in our group down there in Pensacola at the time that kind of the same feeling that they wanted to get out and do something that was just a little more challenging. FRANK BORING: How did you first hear about the opportunity in China? DICK ROSSI: It was kind of a long-winded thing. I had heard that the Dutch were hiring people to train their air force down in the Netherlands – I mean the East Indies, and so I wrote to the Dutch Consul and tried to get information on it, and he advised me that they had all they wanted and they appreciated the interest, but there weren't any openings at the time, because they had had quite a few of the navy pilots who were trained in flying boats. So some of the people that knew I was interested in this, pointed out an article, I think it was in Life Magazine, a very small article that said that pilots were being recruited to go to China. It didn't give much information. You gonna get the telephone? FRANK BORING: Let's have the second part again. DICK ROSSI: Where were we? FRANK BORING: We'll start right from top. Basically what we want to know is, how did you hear about the AVG and what happened after that? DICK ROSSI: He showed me this article in Life Magazine and it said that they were recruiting pilots in the services, and mentioned the army and the navy, so this friend of mine, he was from California also, Rickets, we sent in a letter to the Bureau of Naval Operations saying that we would like to be involved in this, said that we'd like get in on it, and the way the things runs in the navy, when you have a request or a letter to go to Washington, it has to go through your squadron and your Base Commander and all this stuff. We got okayed from our squadron personnel leader, and when it got down to the base, we got called up on the carpet and told them that �there was no such thing, the navy didn't do this type of thing, and whereas they have to forward your letter, if they want to, they can write "Disapproved" on it but they still have to forward it. But they advised us to tear it up, which, being new ensigns, we did. But in the meantime, the same weekend, the executive in my squadron, had a father who was an admiral, and he was going up that weekend in Washington to visit his dad. He knew I'd put this letter through, he was the one that had to sign it, and so when he came back he told me that, yes, this was going on. He said, "I think you're crazy to go but I'll put in a good word for you," and I said – in the meantime, they called us down to the Commandant and told us to tear the letters up, so he said, "Okay, that's navy procedure," Later, because of our interest in it, somebody told us that this wasn't being done to the service it was being done to a private organization, and they had the address which was Intercontinental Aviation in New York, and that was Bill Pawley's organization. So then Rick and I both wrote to Intercontinental and told them that we were interested in it, and we got a letter back from them saying they were going to have recruiters at Pensacola in a few weeks, and that they would look us up when they got there, so when they arrived down at Pensacola, they had authorization to come on the base, post notices of the different squadrons, and they scheduled a meeting for a Sunday afternoon downtown at the San Carlos Hotel. So Rick and I of course, went down there. There was a whole flock of other pilots, we had a whole roomful, we must have had 50 or 60 pilots down there. They had already put my name and Rick's name down on their list and we were the first two on the list. During the course of explaining what it was all about, we were told it was go out and protect the Burma Road, that Roosevelt had okayed it, but because of the neutrality laws that we had to resign our commission and go out, but we would be allowed to go out, that we would be allowed to come back in without any loss of seniority when our year's contract was up, and they signed up 36 pilots that day. But unfortunately they didn't all get to go. Our Commandant at that weekend was out in the North Atlantic with Churchill where they had their meeting out in the North Atlantic, �and we signed off that weekend, we got our discharges and our resignations approved and turned in our flight gear, and when he got back on Sunday night, Monday morning and heard about this, he cancelled everything before we could get away. So he had quite a bit of clout, he was – Captain Read he was the first guy to fly the ocean in the NC4 and he had quite a bit of clout, so he cancelled everything, the wires and the telephone calls started going back and forth between us and Intercontinental Corporation in New York and they started getting hold of Washington, and the next thing you know, they worked out a compromise. They said, out of 36 you'll have to leave half of them, 18 can go and 18 can't. So they just cut off the last 18 guys that signed up and since Rick and I had our name at the top, we were right on the list and they just took 'em in order the order they'd signed up, and so the rest of us got to go. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) DICK ROSSI: I don't know if you remember but there was a big pre-war meeting between Roosevelt and Churchill out in the North Atlantic and our Commandant was one of the aides with Roosevelt on that, and while he was out there, was the same weekend that we signed up to go to China and we turned in our equipment and our flight gear and filled out our resignation certificates. By the time that he got back on Sunday night and hear about this, he cancelled everything and they got on the phone between some of our group and the company in New York and Washington, so they finally settled on a compromise, and agreed to let half of us go and the other half were denied the right to go out. It was similar I guess they had some sort of a problem similar to that when Arnold told that they were gonna take a hundred pilots, because originally they were talking about getting them all out of the air corps because the air corps were the only ones that had people who flew the P-40's and Arnold made the remark that if he lost a hundred pilots it would ruin his whole air force, and he was told by the President that if a hundred pilots would ruin his air force, he didn't have an air force. So, I guess �they were in that same category. Because they were expanding as you know – in '41 the expansion program was already on, so they didn't want to lose instructors because they were building up the number of cadets and everything, but I don't think our small group made that much difference. FRANK BORING: Did you have any idea what you were getting into, what did you expect of them, what made you decide to go? DICK ROSSI: When they gave their spiel pitch on what we were supposed to do, it was to defend the Burma Road which was the last supply line or supply rock open to China. So we were sort of given the impression that the Japanese would be sending bombers over there and that it was up to us to chase them away and see that they didn't close the Burma Road. Some people may have different deals. They talked about this $500 bonus, I don't even remember them mentioning this in the beginning. It wasn't in anything that we signed in our contract with them, and ostensibly because we weren't supposed to be going to war or anything in that category, we were just signing up to work for the airplane factory. Now this company in New York built Pawley's, had built and operated a small aircraft factory out in southwest China and it was called Central Aviation Manufacturing Company. Now that's where we were assigned, they paid our salary, we just called them CAMCO which was their initials. Our contracts were with CAMCO, our pay came from CAMCO. Indirectly though, I guess our pay was financed by the US Government Lend Lease Program because it was just about that time that they were making more aid available to China because the Japs were causing some trouble elsewhere out there, that the government began to worry about letting them get too strong and figured there should be some kind of force, something to blow 'em down. So I think everybody went out there with pretty much of an idea that we would be going against Japanese bombers mostly and of course, we didn't think we were going to be out there to be World War II either. �FRANK BORING: What made you decide to go? DICK ROSSI: I don't know, I'd been out in the Orient before, it interested me. I think one of my main reasons for going was to get a different experience than I was having in the navy at Pensacola, and I also thought that if I have to go out there and put a year in duty out there, that when I come back to the navy I would have an advantage over having not gone out there and it would put me a little bit ahead and a little bit more of a better position as far as the navy went. FRANK BORING: What was the process in your leaving Pensacola and then going to China, the actual process? DICK ROSSI: They okayed our resignation and we severed our relationship by we had our travel pay home and then we were ordered to report to San Francisco within a certain time, because this particular group was almost all coming out of Pensacola as I was being. There were a few others that weren't. We all had orders to report to San Francisco, my home was in San Francisco so I just went out to my house, my parent's house, and Ricketts who came from the bay area too, we'd been at the University of California in Berkeley, he went to his home. All the rest of the group went to a hotel in downtown San Francisco and we had, I don't know, how many days there before the ship sailed, but they kept in contact with us and gave us updates on the sailing and this sort of thing. But most of the guys who were out there and were away from home, spent most of their time in the local bar down there. I guess a few shiploads before them had done the same so they were pretty well known at this bar downtown. FRANK BORING: The next step was, you got onto the ship, what was the trip like? DICK ROSSI: We boarded this Dutch ship, we were on the Boschfontein, and I think that in our group there were maybe 30 or 32 people together. �Some air force pilots were on it a few that had come from Pensacola, we had a few ground personnel, and we had a couple of Chinese personnel and it was kind of a typical combination passenger freighter ship. We left San Francisco and headed out. Of course, it wasn't really new to me. I hadn't been on a ship in the navy but I'd spent five years in the merchant marine, so I was familiar with being at sea, and since Ricketts and my name were on the top of the lists, by some lucky coincidence, we got a nice cabin topside, instead of one of the ones down below. So we had really nice quarters on board, the food was great. The only other passengers were some missionaries and a few Chinese, and it was one of those deals where you don't have much to do. The guys were – not much to do except lay in the sun or swim or go to the bar and the first few days there the weather wasn't all that great that you wanted to go to the pool, so I guess the bar did a pretty good business. When we got to Honolulu, our first stop, we were there just during the day, I took the opportunity to go and visit one or two of the friends that I had there during the days of my merchant ship days, and some of us went to a barber's ship and got our hair clipped real short and it turned out like most, a big part of them did, and most of the others when they come back on board, had the ship's barber give them a short haircut, and we had one marine with us, Curt Smith, who was a Captain, he was the highest rank of anyone who signed up in our group, so he was put in charge of the group, and he refused to get a haircut, get his hair cut down, and so one night we all got a hold of him, pinned him down and cut it for him. It looked like a bunch of mice had been in there. Of course, he had a few band aids around here and there where while he was struggling, the scissors slipped a few times. When we got down to – usually when you cross the Equator, they have an initiation ceremony when they turn the pollywogs into shell backs and those who have cross the Equator already are the ones who do the initiation. There were only three of us who had crossed the Equator before, myself, Charlie Bond and Lou Bishop. So we needed a couple more guys to help us out on this, so we took the two biggest guys we had, Tex Hurst and Gunvordahl, old Zipper �Gunvordahl, and made them act as the policemen. We had a pretty good ceremony – the missionaries stayed out of sight pretty much that day. Another thing, while were on board the ship, we also used to stand watches of the crow's nest. We'd line up the schedule for the day and we'd each take a two hour shift during the daylight hours and go up in the crow's nest for an anti-submarine watch because the Japs did have submarines and the Germans actually had submarines sometimes out there. We did have a submarine deal and we were blacked out at night. You couldn't smoke a cigarette on deck or anything like that. All the portholes were blacked out and the doors were doubled with curtains so you couldn't open the door and let light get out. Other than that, it was kind of a pleasant trip, because we stayed in Surabaya for seven days, two weeks excuse me. We were in Java for two weeks and we were between Surabaya and Batavia, because they had a lot of cargo to load and unload, and the ships, even though they're passenger ships, they're primarily freighters and that category. While we were there we ran into a bunch of our friends from the navy who were there instructing the Dutch, because at that time was under Dutch control, and we had a chance to go over to Bali and visit the island of Bali. These were all nice interludes and then we were at Singapore and we spent time at Singapore several days and had a chance to go round and see all the sights in Singapore. A handful of us got an invitation to go out and visit the Sultan of Johor in his palace. We were in the Raffles Hotel one day and I saw him come in with a group, and I recognized him from a previous trip I had out there in the merchant marines and so I sent him a note telling him we were American pilots, we were going out to China and we'd like to be able to go and visit his palace. So he came over and bought us all drinks, and one of the boys came in there about the time he'd finished and he said, "What are you going to have to drink?" and he said, "No thanks, I'm not drinking," He all of a sudden looked at him and said, "The last guy that didn't take a drink I offered him, his head was floating down the river. He said, "Okay, I'll have a drink." Anyway, he gave me a nice hand written letter to take out to his sentry on duty, and he said to me, �"You'll be wanting to keep this letter as a souvenir, but it has instructions that the officer on duty is supposed to take it away from you." Unfortunately, we didn't have copy machines in those days, or I'd have had a copy of it. But we did go out there and he… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rossi_Dick_1991-02-06_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rossi, John Richard "Dick" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-06 Title A name given to the resource Dick Rossi interview (video and transcript, 1 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of John Richard "Dick" Rossi by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dick Rossi served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader for the 1st Squadron, "Adam and Eves." He joined the AVG in 1941 after being discharged from service in the US Navy, where he had been assigned as a flight instructor at Pensacola Naval Air Station. He arrived in Burma in November 1941 and began training on the P-40 airplanes, but had not yet completed his training when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Though officially attached to the 1st Squadron, he was also temporarily assigned to both the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons. In this tape, Rossi discusses his time instructing in the Navy prior to being recruited with the American Volunteer Group, in addition to their journey overseas from San Francisco aboard the Boschfontein. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/379103f0433b56848a813ba28cdfc804.mp4 be9177c02f08c60903bda2684ee50f1e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91c864558fdf39e9436c53c2823dbae0.pdf 7dedf57f0028d9b4a4d42a63e8a6b948 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] - audio only JOE ROSBERT: Air Corps came in now like this spring of '42, they set up a supply route from India and the only way to get there was to fly the stuff over the hump, so all the stuff that Chennault needed including gasoline, was flown over the hump. Now Pan Am at that point in around May or June of '42 had signed the contract with the Army Air Corps to fly supplies over the hump, using CNAC as the named party in the contract. So that's how we happened to join, but it was a Pan American operation. FRANK BORING: Looking back now, what do you thing was your particular contribution or proud moments with AVG? JOE ROSBERT: I would say one of the proud moments was when I arrived in Toungoo and saw the P-40's and met Chennault. That I had made the right decision and that was reflected in many proud moments like that Kunming incident I told you about with townspeople coming out, losing a couple of friends. Above all, I would say, the great success we had against the Japanese and the feeling of accomplishment that we had done something in the war. FRANK ROSBERT: In terms of history where do you think AVG stands - where are they in all of this whole scheme of China and America? JOE ROSBERT: The AVG to my mind stands out as the only bright star that shone at that time from December until July when we were disbanded. I �think that every theory or idea that Chennault had about tactics was brought out during that period and served well the U.S. Army Air Corps in the two or three years to come in the war in China. FRANK BORING: You had a long period of time in China and you spent a lot of time doing different things out there, the CAT, CNAC, the hump. Where does AVG fit in terms of your personal history? How does that fit into how you evaluate your life? JOE ROSBERT: I think as far as my own personal history is concerned the AVG fits in as a young, starry-eyed Naval Aviator who went to the Far East and didn't know anything about what was going on in that mysterious world and it took me those seven months, not only to make a record in the air, but understanding what was going on with the Chinese people. FRANK BORING: What captured you about that? What was it about the Chinese that made you stay out there so long? JOE ROSBERT: One thing about the Chinese, they have a philosophy of life that involves patience to the point where no American can understand it. They used to build those runways in Kunming and we used to say "there are those Chinese again making little ones out of big ones". They had a hammer and pounding the rocks until they got small enough until they could spread them out and make a runway. We had a plane make a crash landing in a river and it sank. This was up near Hengyang towards the last days and everybody said "well that's the end of that P-40". Not the Chinese. They got bamboo poles, they submerged them, tied them to that plane, oneby-one, by the hundreds, until finally the P-40 floated and they pulled it ashore. But that's the kind of things they could do with their patience and the other thing is, we didn't know it at the time, but we found out as we went along, that the Chinese have a terrific sense of humor, unlike the Japanese. The Japanese are hard, the Chinese, to my mind, are a soft people. Once you have a Chinese friend, he can't do enough for you. And the other thing I liked �about the Chinese in China, they did everything on a handshake. They didn't have lawyers, they didn't have contracts. You made a deal and that was it. It was part of their honor. That didn't mean that they wouldn't take advantage of a situation, but they would stick by their word. So those are my remembrances of the Chinese. FRANK BORING: Why did you stay in China so long? JOE ROSBERT: Well, for one thing, we formed the Flying Tiger Line in Los Angeles and General Chennault, he was a retired General at that time, came by our base in Mines Field in California, which is now Los Angeles International Airport, and told us about a franchise that he had obtained through the efforts of Madame Chiang Kaishek and Chiang Kai-shek himself for his work that he had done in China through the war years, and would any of us be interested in joining the operation and I seized the chance and not only that, after being in China for about six months, I met my wife, a beautiful Russian woman, and we had three kids out there. So I sort of got enamored with the way of life and the Chinese and how they did things. FRANK BORING: Just incorporate what it is and you'd say that's what guys would do mostly… JOE ROSBERT: I mentioned that the pilots in the AVG, when they were on the alert had no duties except wait for a scramble. We either rested or read books or we gambled and the game that we gambled on was Red Dog. I find that a lot of people don't know what that game is, but it was a turning of the card by the dealer and you betting that you could beat the card. When that pot built up because we were using Chinese money, built up to a mountain, and you lost, they had to count all that money. So that took quite a bit of time. But it was a gambling game where you bet against the dealer turning up a card that you could beat. �FRANK BORING: One final question, Joe. What do you think the AVG meant to China? JOE ROSBERT: Well China had been bombed by the Japanese. You need to have the picture of the Japanese having moved into North China and down to Shanghai, and then taking all the port cities, all the way down to taking Hong Kong, which was not part of China at the time. They invaded Hong Kong, they had Canton, they had Amoy, they had Shanghai, and then of course they had all the northern cities. This meant defeat upon defeat and I think that when we came along and started hitting the Japanese when they had no air force to go against them, and that they just had to suffer these bombings of their cities - because the Japanese bombed mostly cities, they weren't interested particularly in the airports, there was no air force - so they bombed the cities. And since we stemmed that tide, I think the Chinese never forgot that. That spread like wildfire all through China. Right from Kunming, Chunking was the war time capital, up through Chunking, down to Kweilin, Hengyang and then of course later on the air force was instrumental in helping to defeat the Japanese completely. But we were the first ones that stemmed the tide and I think that's why they remember that the most. FRANK BORING: Is there anything that you recall that is particularly… We've got some more tape left, I certainly want to hear it. JOE ROSBERT: Before I was promoted to Flight Leader, I was a Wing man and I had a Flight Leader by the name of Matt Kuykendall and as I said on our days off we were free, we didn't have much to do at our hostel between the airport and town, we had a little bar where we would go and have a few libations now and then. On this particular day - of course we were carrying guns and we got a little obstreperous and started shooting - supposedly shooting at each other and having a duel, but really shooting up in the air and somehow or another Harvey Greenlaw was in the area of our hostel, or somebody said "hey you'd better come and save these �guys from themselves". So he came along and he said "you guys are subject to Court Martial." He said "I have to make this report on what happened and you will be advised." So sure enough we got a notice that we were going to have a Court Martial and so I got hold of - from one of the Air Force types - a Court Martial Book of Regulations, and in there it said the inspecting officer of the case cannot serve on the Court Martial Board. You know pilots to Chennault were everything and when we were called into this room the General was at the head of the table, Harvey Greenlaw was there and somebody else and Matt Kuykendall and myself. The General called the Court Martial to order and I said "General I'd like to say something." He said "Okay". So I said "The inspecting officer of a Court Martial cannot serve on the Court Martial". He smiled and he turned to Harvey Greenlaw and he said "Harvey is that right?" and Harvey said "Yeah, I think that is right". And he said "Well Harvey, I guess you'll have to be excused". And the upshot of it was that the General said "Well you know you guys could have caused a lot of trouble. I'm fining you $100.00 each and don't do it again". That was one case of how a little bit of off time and celebrating could get you into trouble. Another similar case to that - I told you that when we went down to Rangoon, we didn't have any planes, we took the train from Lashio to Rangoon and we had a lot of beer on that train. We got out at Mandalay and it was night time and we had our guns and we're drinking beer shooting things up and finally John Farrell and another one of the pilots, I can't remember his name now, but they started an argument with each other, and I said "Okay you guys, if you're going to be that way, you better go back-to-back" - now, mind you, it's dark out, you couldn't see a damn thing. I said "I'll count off and then you can turn around and you can start shooting." So we did, I counted off, they stumbled down in the dark, hell they're shooting up in the air, they couldn't hit an elephant with a big bat, and nothing really happened, but something could have happened. A guy could have been shot, but nobody ever got shot in the AVG that I know of. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 7 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert discusses his proudest moments in the American Volunteer Group and their place in history as a bright star for China and America. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fef5bb34999c5ad8781848e9b90dde90.mp4 6a07266ff4939ec2a03aeb66439167c4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfabf83c1bc3b98053b6903a46834b1d.pdf 2733da9bdbcef7a0a0bd274a0e81c05e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] JOE ROSBERT: So those events overtook the Stillwell situation and it wasn't till later really that we learned of the relationship and what happened with Stillwell and Chennault. FRANK BORING: Looking back on it now your impressions about this controversy between Stillwell and Chennault… JOE ROSBERT: After that first meeting or that first sighting of Stillwell when he came in, we later learned that he was going to have a prominent position as the Commanding General of the combined forces in China and we thought once again, like the Bissell incident, that here's another fracas that's going to happen because we learned that he was a ground forces fanatic and of course, Chennault was all air force and that there was bound to be a clash. It turned out that way and Stillwell, I always though, made an ass of himself by going down on the ground in Burma and marching out his little battalion when he was the Commanding General in the area and what was happening in the area headquarters all the time he was marching out of there. But the upshot of that was that he and Chennault never saw eye-to-eye on anything. Eventually this got to the Generalissimo who used what influence he could and Stillwell was finally removed from his Command. FRANK BORING: Did you ever meet the Generalissimo? �JOE ROSBERT: Oh yeah, many times. FRANK BORING: Give us some ideas of what was your first impression of him and then later impressions? JOE ROSBERT: Well the first impression we had of the Generalissimo was after we had been in combat for a while. The Chinese Air Force, through Madame Chiang Kai-shek, decided to decorate us. We already had Chinese wings, you know. We wore Chinese Air Force wings. They got us together and the Madame, the General Chiang Kaishek came for the ceremony where we were decorated. I, at that point, didn't know much about the Generalissimo, except that he was the head of the government and the whole program against the Japanese and that probably that was the reason we were there to help him do the job against the Japanese. He looked like a very tough-minded person. He had a shaved head and to me he looked pretty capable of strong measures. Now later on I knew him pretty well and the family in Taiwan and I thought he was a capable politician, but events in China took over after the war was over and the Communists had built up such a strength in cahoots with the Soviet Union, that they defeated the Nationalists on the mainland so we wound up in Taiwan. I thought he was capable under the circumstances. With the way the situation was in China, lack of communications, they always were the last ones to receive consideration. The European Theater being the prize, as far as the politicians in Washington were concerned. So he had a tough circumstance to overcome and I thought he did pretty well. FRANK BORING: What were your impressions of Madame Chiang Kai-shek? JOE ROSBERT: Well when she called us her Flying Tiger Angels and the Darlings of the CAF, I tell you, everybody just melted. She was an orator. She could speak better than English than you or I. She was a terrific speaker and kind of a spell-binder. When she got up and made a talk, she could really make you feel emotional. �FRANK BORING: Did you have much to do with her? I mean did she come to see the AVG? JOE ROSBERT: She sort of considered the AVG her baby, in a way. I guess because of her education in the United States and the fact that she knew more about our people than the Generalissimo did. But she, I would say, took over and sort of was our best sponsor in the Chinese government. FRANK BORING: Did you ever have any contact with Tiger Wong? JOE ROSBERT: I only knew him rather casually in those days because we really didn’t know too many of the Chinese officers. Naturally, with that nickname we heard of him and we knew that he was connected. But as far as knowing him as a person, no, I did not. I only got to know him later on Taiwan. FRANK BORING: How about P.Y. Shu? JOE ROSBERT: P.Y. Shu of course was like the faithful puppy. He was constantly at Chennault's side. He was always outside his office for the General to call at any moment and he, from the day that the General arrived in China, he joined up with him because he was like a Secretary in the Chinese Air Force. Not in the office sense, but a Secretary in the official sense. Because of his English capability, he joined up with the General right away, I think around 1937 and was at his side when we arrived in Kunming and stayed with him until the General died. FRANK BORING: Did you have any interactions with him? Was he somebody you considered a friend? JOE ROSBERT: Oh yes. P.Y. was a friend of all of us in the executive branch of CAT, which was Chennault's airline later on. But in those days in Kunming, we didn't have much to do with P.Y., we just knew he was there all the time. �FRANK BORING: You touched upon Chiang Kai-shek, you said that you considered him a capable leader given the circumstances. Do you have any opinions on the statement that he was spending more time fighting the Communists than he was the Japanese? Did you ever get that kind of impression? JOE ROSBERT: During the war when we were there in the AVG and engaged in our operation I really didn't know too much about that situation vis-a-vis the Communists. I don't think in those early days, '41-'42, that there was that kind of a big campaign. Now you've got to remember that Sun Yat-sen, who founded the new Nationalist movement in China, and Chiang Kai-shek were rabid antiCommunists. They fought the Communists from 1923 when they first started up in Shanghai. Of course when they made that long march up through Yin En [?], they were pursued and wound up with a fairly small force. Now they built that up as the war went on and I think that Chiang Kai-shek's feeling and his actions against the Communists as they built up that force in cahoots with the Soviet Union, then he became more and more in pursuit of the Communists. But I don't think he ever considered them any greater a threat at that time than the Japanese, but I think that feeling did build up as they went along. FRANK BORING: There was a feeling that came across in the accounts in the books and also in some of our interviews that towards the end of the period before July 4th, a sense of exhaustion. Not so much morale being that bad, but just a sense of exhaustion. That it was time to take a break. Did you feel that yourself? Or were you ready to keep going another year of fighting? JOE ROSBERT: I didn't feel any sense of exhaustion. I was disturbed by the attitude that the hierarchy in the U.S. Army Air Corps took, the attitude they took, that we were just like any other group. Okay if we didn't take their offer, so be it. But there were some people that felt some sense like that, that they better get out of there. But I think that for �the majority, that decision was made by the circumstances surrounding the recruitment program. I really believe that if Chennault, not only had been appointed the Commanding General of this new air group, but had been told that he was in charge of the recruitment program and go to it and do the best he could to recruit all these people, that there would have been a lot more people stay on. In spite of the fact that everybody thought that one of the things that should have been offered was maybe a brief respite of a couple of weeks or whatever, either in another area or actually in the States. I almost got the feeling from the attitude of the military that they weren't too anxious for Chennault to get a big group of us to continue on. I just had that sense. Now maybe that wasn't exactly right, but the 17 of us who joined CNAC, for instance, that subsidiary of Pan American, did so with the idea that this was an improvement over what had been offered and that they were kind enough to say yes, we realize your situation and you may have a vacation. The U.S. military didn't take that attitude. But as far as the exhaustion was concerned, no I don't think there was a large number of people that felt exhausted. After all, when we went with CNAC, the 17 of us who did, flew the hump, which is one of the worst routes in the world. We flew that hard. So I don't think that it was a question of exhaustion. I think it was more the treatment and the fact that there should have been some consideration given to how long we had been in combat. FRANK BORING: Was there a pilot's revolt? Was there actually a confrontation with Chennault where the pilots said "we've had enough?" JOE ROSBERT: No, there was no confrontation where they said we had enough. But there was a group that got together and approached him and said that they didn't think that we should do anymore strafing missions, that they were too dangerous, that we had lost Jack Newkirk and Black Mac McGarry and before that we had lost Charlie Mott and that they didn't think that was worth the possible losses, and they were dangerous missions, pretty bad. But that �occurred just during the short period of time and I think that Chennault did agree in principle, but maybe that wasn't productive. FRANK BORING: That actually was part of your - I mean you were not a military unit in a sense that this was not really considered insubordination or anything, was it? I mean was it common to go to Chennault and say I disagree with this or I don't like this? JOE ROSBERT: Well I could tell you that during that whole period and until July, this was a few months. You know we were only in combat 7 months. I think that from that incident the thing continued on for another 2 or 3 months at least. In other words, nobody at that point went to Chennault and said "I quit". They never were threatening in that respect. FRANK BORING: What was it like to work with Chennault, I mean in terms of a dayto-day operation? I mean he was a Colonel but you often said that the rank thing was not the same as in the military, you didn't have to salute people and whatnot, but what was it like to work with Chennault? JOE ROSBERT: Chennault lived in that hostel with the pilots on the west side of Kunming. The First Squadron had a separate billet between town on the east side and the airport. He was with those people quite a bit. But in the day-to-day operation of the AVG, there was very little contact with the personnel and Chennault. As far as his being a Colonel, he was sort of an honorary Colonel in the CAF. He really didn't with us have any kind of connotation of a military position. Everybody knew that he was the head of the organization, but he never impressed you when he was around you that he was the Chief. He did insist that when they played softball, that he was the pitcher, but other than that he never imposed himself in a hard way on any of us. Now he did call Boyington in and tell him after several incidents where Boyington injured himself, he crashed in a P-40 on takeoff and almost killed himself. He called him in and said "Greg, if I don't send you home you're going to kill yourself." �And he did send him home and was probably justified in doing it. But Boyington always took the position that "he was no military general in command of me and had no right to send me home." But of course Chennault had the right to send anybody home. FRANK BORING: There was not much saluting and things like that around, but I understand that some guys did salute Chennault. JOE ROSBERT: I never saw him saluted, never. Now Tex Hill and Ed Rector and a few of those people that were in that other hostel can tell you more about that, but I never saw anybody salute Chennault. FRANK BORING: Or anybody else? JOE ROSBERT: No, never. FRANK ROSBERT: Given the fact that it was a loose group, I mean it was an organized group in the sense that when you got up in the air, as I understand it Chennault's basic rules were that when you're on the ground you're pretty much - you've got your duties to do and whatnot, but when you're in the air you've got to do it a certain way. But on the ground there was a certain amount of partying and sort of a loose kind of atmosphere as I understand it? Was that pretty much true and was it a hard drinking, hard playing group of guys? JOE ROSBERT: At times there was some partying and hard drinking, but not as a regular thing. Now the pilots in the AVG had no duties. During the day, the most that we had to do was play Red Dog and I got myself a typewriter and a typing book and taught myself how to type and a few other guys did a couple of productive things, but other than that everybody was just on the alert and either took a nap on the cot or played Red Dog or whatever. There was never any hard drinking at all as far as being on duty was concerned. Oh that was out, absolutely. And usually it occurred like after maybe 4 or 5 days on duty, then you'd have one or two days off. You wouldn't �even go to the airfield and then you were free to do what you wanted. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 6 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert discusses the controversy between Stillwell and Chennault, the feelings within the group during their final weeks, and the off-duty pastimes of the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4aec9e349c945d2e4350c5525e9f4211.mp4 636da8865ea5da4dd506928b16208896 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/012e9b2c665749aaa1790113f7c8d322.pdf e51d28f0ea3db791ea1024b2e527330c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] JOE ROSBERT: The trouble in having accidents and falling down drunk (I don't want to say that) but he was a pretty good drinker and he was always getting into trouble. Now naturally he made a big success in the South Pacific because he gave them a squadron of misfits that they thought, well Boyington's going to fall on his fanny and he didn't, he made a big success of it. FRANK BORING: He was keyed to trying to get Sandell out too, wasn't he? All right let's talk about Sandell and if you want to go into Boyington that's up to you. But there was some controversy, as I understand it around Sandell and his leadership. I wonder if you could elaborate on that? JOE ROSBERT: Sandell, my Squadron Leader, we called him Sandy, was more of a military-minded leader than I think the other Squadron Leaders were. He wasn't too flexible in that respect and maybe because of that, and the fact that we were, I'll say, an informal group, there was some feeling that maybe somebody would be better, but nothing was ever pushed in that respect. As the course of events after he was killed in the crash in Rangoon testing an airplane, Bob Neale took over and was more of a flexible type. Of course the action was picking up more at that point, so he got into more activity where he became the top ace in the AVG. But as far as any kind of real controversy, I can't say that I felt that. I just felt that he was kind of a stern fellow for the type of group we had. The other �Squadron Leaders, Arvid Olson and Jack Newkirk and Tex Hill, Bob Neale, they weren't quite that way, but everybody's different, so I'd had that relationship of a pilot to his Squadron Leader and I never felt real strong resentment against Sandell. And of course that whole thing, if there was any feeling, was overtaken by events. FRANK BORING: So very close friendships developed in that period. In terms of your going up in the battle and then you come back and wondering who else was going to come back, who do you think affected you the most in terms of who didn't come back? Whose death really affected you the most? JOE ROSBERT: Well the one that I almost had a feeling for when we were in Toungoo when they decided to send the Third Squadron to Rangoon and First and Second went to Kunming, I waved goodbye to my good friend Hank Gilbert, who was in the group of ten pilots on my ship when we came over from San Francisco and Carl Brown was also in that group of ten. One night in Kunming, at night, Carl Brown came to greet me and he said "I've got some sad news". And I said "It's Hank Gilbert". And sure enough he was shot down. Now he was the youngest pilot we had and if anything hit me all through the AVG, I would say that was probably the hardest, because I knew him real well from that trip across. But other than that, the other pilots that were lost, and of course three of them came back, Charlie Mott and Black Mac McGarry and Bishop, there wasn't that feeling. I didn't know any of those people that well. Now there was one other one that I knew fairly well and he was rather an amusing fellow, had been at North Island, Tom Cole. He was shot down in the early action in Rangoon and he also was on my ship. But it didn't quite hit me like that first one with Hank Gilbert. But the things that you see in the movies and you read about in books, where this type of occurrence knocks you down and ruins your nerves and you get all dramatic - no, not a bit. The news came. That was a fate accompli, and the next day you went on with whatever had to be done. There were no - that I know of in our whole group - dramatics about the people that were lost. �Not that we were hard-hearted or anything, but it was just that feeling, well I'm still surviving and somebody has to go. FRANK BORING: Would you say part of it is that you knew what you were getting into, I mean you knew you were going up against odds, you knew you were going to be fighting against some enemy that was out to kill you? Was there like a kind of certainty? JOE ROSBERT: Oh yeah, you knew that when you were in combat that they were shooting real bullets at you. But I don't think anybody - I know I didn't - had the idea that you were going to be next. Nobody, to my mind, ever went out with that attitude, ever. I think we lost most of those people before we got into combat. They took a look at the situation, they went home. And it was probably good they did. FRANK BORING: Regarding that same subject, not just the Tigers, but you see a lot of other books and movies talk about when a pilot doesn't come back, he's got all his gear there and it sort of gets distributed about. What was the policy, so to speak, regarding that, what happened? I mean a locker full of stuff was left there. JOE ROSBERT: When somebody went down in combat, there was somebody appointed that knew him to take care of his belongings. Now he would decide that there were a lot of things there, no point sending home. What's the use of sending the fellow's gun home or his skivvies or whatever, so things like that would be disposed of in the group, or however he wanted to do it and then it would be some things that they thought the family might want that they would pack up and send home. FRANK BORING: I understand there was an incident involving your premature loss of certain items and what not. JOE ROSBERT: Well of course that came later when I crashed in the Himalayas Mountains. �FRANK ROSBERT: Oh that's right. One thing we sort of touched on, and to me it's a very fascinating - is a description of the fall of Rangoon. I mean it must have been a total zoo! And in fact, they let the zoo animals out or something didn't they? JOE ROSBERT: Well the population in Rangoon were more the zoo than any animals. Oh I tell you, those Indians and Burmese, they went crazy in the last days of Rangoon. It was hardly safe to go into the town. In fact we were told it's better not to. But we did make that one foray into town to look around and see what was happening. But they were busting up everything. They just knew that the Japanese were coming in. In fact, I think some of them who planned to stay there decided to bust things up to tell the Japanese that they were helping them so they wouldn't get into trouble after the occupation. FRANK ROSBERT: There was a period towards the end where you were fighting constantly. I've been told there was very little sleep at times and you'd have to get into an airplane and go up and fight and then come back and exhaustion started to set in. What was that period like towards the end of AVG? JOE ROSBERT: Towards the end of the AVG? FRANK BORING: Was that when the real heavy concentration of fighting was going on? JOE ROSBERT: The heaviest fighting we had in the AVG was in the Rangoon campaign. Now later on, there was some action around the Salween River and bombings of Paoshan and that area. That was fairly active for just a few days. Then Dick Rossi and I flew up to Chunking with a group of other pilots because they thought they were going to bomb Chunking and Chennault got word that the Japanese were going to avoid Chunking for a little while and bomb the Kweilin area. So we were ordered to go down there one afternoon and arrive at dark and they had this headquarters in a cave there. We lined up our planes on the end of the runway and �went up in the cave and the next morning we were on alert before dawn and word came through - there was a Chinese interpreter there who was getting the messages from the Chinese - and Chennault was putting pins on a map showing these Japanese planes that had taken off from around the Canton area and were headed towards Kweilin. That was probably the calmest feeling that we had, if you can say that you ever got calm in combat, because pretty soon Chennault said "okay this is the time to go, get up to altitude and intercept them. They're coming in at such and such a direction." We did and I was just behind Bob Neale, we were in this formation, it was a beautiful day and I spotted the Japanese formation coming in and I fired. You could see the tracers, you know, if you pulled the trigger and he spotted that right away and I pointed down there and we all went down after them. We had a combat like that around Kweilin and the Hengyang area and it was at that point after all this business in Rangoon on the last days, that Bob Neale actually was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. He says that maybe he even did have a nervous breakdown and that of course leads into this business of the Army Air Corps taking over the AVG and how we were treated and what happened at that point. But the activity after the Rangoon campaign was one bad - I say bad in respect that it was a very dangerous operation, which was a raid on Chiang Mai in Thailand. And Tex Hill can tell you more about that because he was on that raid and that's where Jack Newkirk was shot down ground strafing. I think actually they ground strafed some tanks and trucks and he was hit and that was the end of him. But other than that the campaigns around Kweilin, Hengyang, were much milder - if I can use that word -than Chiang Mai raid or the campaign in Rangoon. FRANK BORING: When did you first start hearing the rumors that AVG was going to change its status, so to speak, become incorporated into another form into the American military? JOE ROSBERT: Along about April in the spring of '42. Chennault didn't put out any official notice or anything, but the word spread because there had �been Army Air Corps types flying in there, General Stillwell came and they were looking around and the General spread the word that when July came that that was probably going to be the end of the AVG. Within a very short time, the notice came out that he was made Brigadier General in command of what was to be the Army Air Corps operation after our group was disbanded. We heard that there was a General by the name of Bissell who was going to be in charge of the recruiting program. I thought that was strange because they thought enough of Chennault's record that he could be appointed the Commanding General of the new Air Force in China, but not a good enough man to recruit his own people. Now that doesn't mean that he couldn't contact his own individual men and talk to them. But the official man in charge of the recruiting was General Bissell and that proved to be a disaster because they got us in a hall in Kunming during that period. Here we are with side arms and a little bit of beard and fairly tough looking customers, which didn't seem to faze General Bissell at all. He stood up and said among other things that you have to join the U.S. Military out here, because if you don't, when you set foot on United States soil, you're going to be drafted as Privates, and besides, you're going to have trouble getting home. Now this contract that we had was a round-trip affair and nobody, including Chennault, had ever talked to us or taken that attitude with us before. So you know what rhymes with Bissell, that's what everybody said to him and they walked out and they only recruited five pilots. It was a shame because we had the experience and could teach - they sent a bunch of Second Lieutenants in to replace us that hardly were more than out of flight school. It really was a shame. FRANK BORING: Before you walked into that meeting with Bissell, what was your intention? I mean you knew that your contract was running out, what was your actual intention? JOE ROSBERT: Before that meeting, I didn't have much thought about it. I hadn't really given it much attention. The word had spread and the notice �that Chennault was made a General and it was more a sad feeling than anything. Here our group is going to disappear after July. I really didn’t know what I was going to do. I talked to some of the other pilots and they were disgusted with this display by Bissell. You see they set up a board and they were going to go around from Kunming to Chunking, Kweilin, places like that and interview the people individually, ground staff and the pilots. Many of them said "I don't even want to talk to that Board." Not interested. Now later on, many of those pilots went back and joined their own respective services and served in the war. Chuck Older came back to China and some of the other pilots came back to China. It wasn't as if everybody just wanted to throw up their hands and go home. It was that they were disgusted with the way Bissell handled the whole thing. FRANK BORING: Did you ever meet Stillwell? JOE ROSBERT: Yeah, casually. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to him - just first impressions - what was? JOE ROSBERT: We were sitting on the alert in Kunming at the airport, when here came a B25. We had word that there was a plane coming into the area so that we wouldn't scramble and shoot it down, so we were told that this Army Air Corps B25 was coming in and pretty soon it landed, pulled up to the line and off that airplane came this fellow who looked like he was from the First World War with a campaign hat on. He didn't really have wrapped leggings but it looked like he had them on and everybody said "Who is that?" And somebody said "I think that's General Stillwell." And they still said "Who is that?" And that was the first impression that we had that here was some relic from the First World War that appeared on the scene. We didn't know what he was going to do at the time, had no idea what his future was in the theater. But then later on we all formed stronger opinions about him and especially �his relations with General Chennault and with Chiang Kai-shek. As you know, later on he was eventually removed from his Command. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 5 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert discusses the close friendships that developed within the AVG squadrons and the losses that affected him the most, in addition to the final days of the AVG and the meeting with General Bissell. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/78372fa67de48ef4ce30f7e5b2295196.mp4 a4361f468b3f63bd8e6eae5c74321f99 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/345c08b74e635174e66aa7dbdb76a184.pdf 37a6938316be87c06cac259501c268bd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: … the enthusiasm of the crew chiefs and everything else, what was the reaction of the Chinese people? JOE ROSBERT: Is that I loved you from the beginning, was your voice. You know how the Russians have a voice. After all this exuberance with the ground crew and the pilots talking to each other and Ed Rector coming back safely and all that, we were all feeling in pretty good spirits, but nothing like what happened the next day when Harvey Greenlaw came in to the alert shack and he said "you fellows are heroes and you better pretty yourselves up because the town is turning out and they want to show their appreciation." So everybody's combing their - we looked like a bunch of bums - but we did slick up a little bit, but everybody had a different costume on and we got out and we all lined up and here coming down the winding road to the entrance to the airport was a procession, led by the Mayor and other officials of the town and all these pretty little school kids, with those typical haircuts straight across the brow with the bangs, and they were all carrying flowers and a purple scarf. Each one had a purple scarf and they all marched up. I don't think they'd ever seen an American pilot before. They looked at us in awe and they gave flowers to a few people and then they came along where we were lined up and gave each one of us one of those purple scarves. I can tell you there was a tear in the eye because they were so appreciative. Most of us took those scarves home and �hung them up in our quarters and kept them for the rest of the time we were there. FRANK BORING: At that point the Chinese now were aware of who you were and what you were there for, later times when you would go into town, what was the reaction of the Chinese people when you would go into town? JOE ROSBERT: The reaction of the people in Kunming continued in that sort of an effervescent fashion. We'd go into a shop and outside would be all these kids and smiling faces all around the doorway, all looking in and laughing and saying "meg wo ren" which is Chinese for American and that hardly ever ceased, that didn't wear off them. They kept up that feeling of appreciation and admiration for what had been done. Like I said the Japanese never came back all the time we were there, so they began to take on a tranquil feeling about what was going on. Oh yeah, they thought we were big heroes and were doing a wonderful thing for the Chinese. FRANK BORING: What was the next stage, if you will, of the AVG? You had your first confrontation, the other guys had gone off to fight, there was a rotation going on. Then when did you go back into battle again? JOE ROSBERT: Well then when it came time for the First Squadron to have its round in Rangoon, we didn't know how long this was going to continue, the campaign in Rangoon. But Sandell said "we can't send the whole squadron, so we're going to draw cards to see who will go in the next contingent of about 12 pilots." Unfortunately, on that first round I lost and 12 other pilots went off. Then within a few days things got so hectic in Rangoon that they said "okay six more pilots" and I was in that group, but we didn't have any planes available. We flew by CNAC to Lashio. Now mind you, CNAC didn't even want to fly down into Rangoon at that time. Things were so bad at the Airdrome with all this military action going on, bombing the Airdrome every night, bombing the wharfs down on the port, bombing all kinds of targets, which we had to take the �train from Lashio to Rangoon. When we arrived in Rangoon on the train, there was an air raid warning going on. Dick Rossi was out there to meet us and we commandeered a couple of - we carried sidearms you know - a couple of taxis and jumped in those things and drove out of town to a place where we stayed overnight, it was a small hotel. But Dick said the British and Scottish in the Burma Oil Company have kindly consented to let us stay in their homes. So Dick was billeted with Michelson in one house and I was billeted next door in the neighbor's house with Greg Boyington, which for two or three weeks was quite an experience. He was a good Marine-trained pilot, he was the only regular officer in the AVG and we would go on the alert and I remember when we were told to scramble one time he came tearing out of the alert shack with nothing but his skivvies on, we all jumped in the airplanes and he went into combat with his underwear. Afterwards we would take the planes to what we called satellite airports and we would put the planes there for the night and drive home in cars and then the next day we would go and pick them up and bring them to Mingaladon Airdrome. After driving back home, the host in the home where we were staying would greet us with - the servants would draw a hot bath and we'd have a scotch and soda and we could relax. I remember one little incident where decided to go in town - this was during the last few days in Rangoon. As we drove in, everything was blacked out, you drove the cars without any lights, with just a little slit in the headlight. You could hardly see anything. We went around sort of a little traffic circle and there was a jeep turned over and we jumped out and said "what's happened?" And here's a guy under this jeep with his arm and his leg sticking out from under. We said "oh that guy must be dead". Greg said let's get those couple of guys over there and we all got under the thing and lifted the jeep up, and when we lifted the jeep up this British guy popped out of there as if nothing had happened to him. He was a pretty strong guy and I don't know whether I did my part in lifting that jeep, but I know he did. And we went into town and things were a mess. The natives were breaking into shops and busting crates down on the docks and they had some cosmetics �they had broken into and they were putting this cold cream on their faces and dancing around, everybody was going crazy because that was just about the end of Rangoon. Within a couple days, I think, one night a mechanic came and knocked on the door and he said "the British have pulled out all of the radio gear. There's no way to go into combat and find your way back here and we just have to leave." Bob Neale had given him instructions to get Rossi and Michelson, myself and Boyington and all the other guys out to the field and we took off with what planes were left, while the ground crew went north on the highway and the Japanese are coming in the other highway about 30-35 miles away. But we had lots of combat activity during those 2 or 3 weeks. I think I mentioned that they would come over with bombers, then bombers and fighters, and then maybe they'd have 75 fighters alone. Every time we'd go up they would try to get us in a dog fight. Bill Bartling used to say they used to do the bee hive trick. They'd make like a bee hive with bees flying around with hopes to get you in there and then they could come around and get on your tail and shoot you down. But we didn't fall for that. We'd go in and hit the sides of the thing and pretty soon they would disperse and head home. But we did some strafing missions. The strafing missions for the AVG were the most dangerous things and if you know anything about aerial combat, like the Japanese would ring an airport with antiaircraft fire and you had to fly through it if you were going to hit the target, so we lost Jack Newkirk to them on one of the flights into Thailand, we lost a couple of other guys from ground fire, Black Mack McGarry and we lost Charlie Mott. Ed Leibolt went out. We didn't ever know whatever happened to him. But we had one interesting strafing mission where we went to Moulmein. Moulmein was a big base for the Japanese. The moved up through the Malay Peninsula. They had one satellite field a few miles south of there. They had lots of planes on both of these fields. So Bob Neale said we'll go at dawn, we'll go down and hit that satellite field and then come around to the east of Moulmein Airport and come in from the sun and hit Moulmein before they have a chance to do anything. Well it was probably somewhat of a mistake to hit �that satellite field first because we destroyed quite a few planes there but then they were alerted up at Moulmein. But if you can call it funny, one of the funniest things that happened was that when we started to strafe Moulmein, here are these Japanese pilots getting into the airplanes as we're strafing the line of airplanes. Now some of them did get off and of course we were down very low strafing, so after a few passes and knocking off quite a few planes and pilots, we took off across that bay to Rangoon almost full throttle because if they got on your tail they could shoot you down. But we didn't lose any planes in that battle over Moulmein. FRANK BORING: At any given time how many of your planes lasted in the air? I mean they would drive up these strafing missions and you're going against all these planes. How many of you guys were up there? JOE ROSBERT: Eight, ten, twelve. We could hardly ever get more than that in the air. We were lucky if we ever got say sixteen or seventeen. It was one of those things where the planes had to be worked on. You could only send them back up so often. Once in a while at Mingaladon Airdrome, we'd come back, they'd gas the plane up, we'd jump right in the plane and go out again. They'd say there were more Japanese planes coming. I guess they just figured they would overwhelm us by numbers and they also were confident that the British ground forces were just collapsing all over the place and that they were going to take the area anyway by ground. And that's exactly what happened. The British wound up - I forget the number of the squadron - but by the time we got up to Loiwing, China just across the border, the British had one airplane left and let's say it was the 326th Fighter Squadron, there was an alert and we all took off in a scramble and here goes this British guy, we'd say "there goes the 327th Fighter Squadron" and sure enough they finally lost that plane. But they just for some reason couldn't get their intelligence together with the ground forces. We went on one mission where we escorted British bombers and we never went again for the reason that their intelligence sent them on a mission where they bombed their own troops. So naturally we said the hell �with that, we're not escorting bombers to bomb British troops. But it was sad in a lot of respects like that, that everything was crumbling. Of course, as everybody knows, they took all of Burma. FRANK BORING: How do you account for your successes against such overwhelming odds, against the Japanese? JOE ROSBERT: Our successes were due, first of all by the fact that we all had military training. We were all pretty experienced in our job from the military. Then there was Chennault's leadership with his expertise in teaching and all the intelligence information he had gathered, plus the fact that I think the initial successes just bred more success. People were, although still cautious and careful about what they did, became more and more confident and just knocked the hell out of the Japanese. FRANK BORING: But one thing that's really very difficult for me to understand is that at any given time you'll have maybe six airplanes in the air and yet you knew these brand new airplanes were just coming over in waves and waves and waves. Didn't you think about it or you just go up and you just fought? JOE ROSBERT: We didn't think about the numbers. The numbers didn't bother us at all because we knew we could get away from them. And they never really - outside of maybe one or two that were shot down they never overwhelmed us in a combat to the point where let's say everybody was scared and lost their confidence and ran away. It never happened. FRANK BORING: When you were up there in this bee hive, what was the strategy? Did you actually follow Chennault's theories and his tactics? JOE ROSBERT: Absolutely. The tactics that Chennault taught us were the only things that really saved us besides our military background and the fact that we knew how to fly airplanes. The numbers of the Japanese planes never made a big impression on us, never did. �Because if you go into combat against those numbers and you don't lose any pilots or you lose very few, you figure you must be doing something right. That success just continued, it never stopped. Later on we went to the Kweilin - Hengyang area and just knocked the fannies off the Japanese as they came in. FRANK BORING: Now in all this time, the legend, if you will, was starting to build up. First of all you had never heard this term before and then all of a sudden people started calling you Fei Hu "Flying Tigers". Newspaper people were coming over, movie crews were coming over, you were hearing stories about what was being said about you. Comment on that. You were fighting and you had these circumstances you were under, but what's this thing that started to develop, this legend that began? JOE ROSBERT: I don't think that legend of the Flying Tigers really hit us at the time we were engaged in combat. The stories built up and it's like a lot of people have always said to me "wasn't that rough over there?" and I always say that I didn't know it was rough until I got home and people started telling me it was rough. It was sort of the same thing about the Flying Tigers, that legend - story - started with the Chinese and with the Press and I don't think we were really impressed with that story at that time. Later on they said we were heroes and all that. The one thing that we thought about later was that probably the reason for that legend, of a legendary picture, was that we were losing everywhere. The British were defeated. We were losing in the Philippines, we were losing in the South Pacific and it took us about 3 or 4 years before the tide of the war started changing in the Pacific. At the time we operated, we were the only bright star on the horizon, so naturally it was compounded by the fact that we were sort of an isolated case and our lack of losses and the fact that we did shoot down a lot of Japanese airplanes for what we lost. So it was a good investment. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 4 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert describes the reaction of the Chinese people to the heroics of the Flying Tigers, his account for their success, and the legend that started to develop around them. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/33b8331c9bfa890858c1e5761330b183.mp4 ba4e510f467642627a2ac2a03fef7dd2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3fcaf10f23df3c921b33f902e5a65557.pdf d439a3161b0a7d7567a9a884c6f43adc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: This is a question that sort of goes back to something we talked about before. The first AVG was the idea of - and then you're going to have a second bombing group - were you aware of the plans to bomb Japan at that time. I mean when they told you about the second bombing group and the third fighter groups coming out were you aware - did you know anything about Chennault's plans? I know you know about it now because you've read his books and all that, but at that time? JOE ROSBERT: When we were recruited and after we spent our early days in Burma, there was never any word about what the plans for the groups were when we got to China. We knew that the Japanese had certain seasons where, like in the winter the weather was good in Kunming, they would bomb Kunming. The weather was very poor in the winter in Chunking so they stayed away from there until the spring when the weather started to improve. As far as the use of that second AVG, the bomber group was concerned, we likewise were not told anything about what the plans were. Nor were we told anything about the plans for the third group. All we knew was that we had one entity of three squadrons of fighters and that we were there to protect the Burma Road. That was the main thing that was told us and as we went along we were not told anymore. In other words, the missions came up one right after the other, especially when we went to Rangoon. You see after the first fight in Kunming where ten bombers came from Hanoi to start the �winter season of bombing, they never came back to try to bomb Kunming again after we engaged them. Then of course we went to Rangoon and the Third Squadron had already been there, the Second Squadron had been there. We, in the First Squadron, we were the last ones in Rangoon before it fell to the Japanese ground forces. The Japanese, first they came with bombers. When we shot down bombers, they came with bombers and fighter escort. We shot down bombers and fighter escort and pretty soon, for some reason, they were only sending fighters over Rangoon. They figured there must be some way to defeat whatever is happening to us. But it didn't work. The only thing that they accomplished was not in the air, it was on the ground and we had to move out of Rangoon when the ground forces approached. FRANK BORING: Before we get into December, what was your first relationship with the Chinese there and were you involved at all with any of the Chinese there, either the Generals or the top brass or just mechanics or anything like that? JOE ROSBERT: The Chinese were sort of an auxiliary force that was to assist the headquarters and assist the crew chiefs and the armorers in doing tasks that they asked them to do. We had very little contact with the Chinese. I'm talking about the pilots now. Of course Chennault was in contact with the Chinese Air Force officers and people like Tiger Wong Shu Ming came into the picture. He was part of the Chinese Air Force organization in Kunming and other officers that he consulted with all the time about what the Japanese were doing, their activities, etc. The Chinese had a pretty good grapevine bamboo radio you might say. Chennault had in the early days of getting this organized, set up a ground warning net with Chinese all over the areas that we were operating in with crank telephones that they would send messages in to key stations that we had set up with our own people, and then they would in turn contact Chennault in headquarters, so that we got warning about what the Japanese were doing. �FRANK BORING: What was the first indications that - just before Pearl Harbor - did you have any anticipation of trouble to come? I mean you were preparing to fight, the whole reason you were there was you were preparing to fight, but just before Pearl Harbor and then if you would explain what happened after Pearl Harbor, but was there any anticipation or any realization that you were going to be fighting soon? JOE ROSBERT: In the early days in Toungoo our activities outside of going to this class regularly given by Chennault and once in a while we had to preserve the airplanes so we couldn't fly every day, so we would lounge around and listen to records and talk and whatever, and there was practically no talk about engagement with the Japanese, about the war. We thought that nothing would happen until we went to China. In other words, we were in a staging area in the middle of the jungles in Burma, so we weren't worried about anything. We had one alert where somebody said they thought they saw a Japanese observation plane fly over. The sirens went off and everybody's standing on the brakes with the engines going, waiting for information to go up and - nothing happened. So naturally we were cool. We didn't think anything was going to happen before Pearl Harbor occurred. FRANK BORING: What is your recollection of the day that you heard that Pearl Harbor had been hit? JOE ROSBERT: A very exciting thing happened on December 8th. We had a little mimeographed news thing that came out that told us this was going on in Singapore and something in Rangoon, little news items from the States and so on, and this fellow who ran this newspaper had one of those Studebaker's and early in the morning - we would get up before dawn and go to the air strip to be on duty and by about one o'clock the sun was so hot in Burma that everything closed down and you couldn't touch the airplanes. So we had gone out on Monday, December 8th early, and pretty soon this Studebaker came flying out to the air strip and this fellow started throwing �these papers out to us and said "Pearl Harbor has been bombed" and took off and we read this thing and he had typed "Pearl Harbor has been bombed by the Japanese and we think that the Philippines is being attacked and we are keeping in touch with radio stations in different places and we'll have more news as it develops". And we thought we're in it! This is probably what we're here for, and everybody then got pretty excited. Something big is happening. And as the thing developed, the Pearl Harbor thing was a disaster and the Philippines too. I pointed this out many times to people before that - as we came over on that ship, we hit Pearl Harbor, we visited there, we had a good time on the beach at Waikiki, we went to the Philippines, we went out to Cavite and visited friends that we knew from Pensacola, we went down to Borneo, we went to Indonesia, we went up to Singapore where the British were saying "impenetrable fortress", we went to Rangoon. Do you realize that within two to three months all those places fell to the Japanese all over the Pacific? And we thought what's happening here? I mean everything is being lost. And of course then our successes started to come out and we felt pretty good about that. FRANK BORING: Let's talk about your first engagement. Let's talk about the first time it wasn't an alert, it was for real. JOE ROSBERT: I told about this campaign the Japanese had for bombing Chinese cities. We had word that they were going to start bombing Kunming so this is after Pearl Harbor now. Churchill had prevailed upon Chiang Kai-shek and of course, Chennault. At first they said they wanted all three squadrons to go to Rangoon. They prevailed upon them, Chiang Kai-shek and Chennault, to send one squadron down. So the Third Squadron went to Rangoon. Our other two squadrons prepared to go to Kunming because we knew something was going to start happening there. The Japanese were going to bomb. The day that we got the two squadrons together and got ready to go, something happened with the weather and we delayed the flight to Kunming. When we did get together the next day and now mind you these two squadrons went together, we had a �mimeographed sheet that showed Toungoo, Burma, showed a place in the foothills of the Himalayas where you turn to go to Kunming, and that was all. It had those two headings. We had just barely enough gas to get to Kunming, and what's more, this was the biggest flight of AVG planes that ever got together all during the war, both the First and Second Squadrons flew to Kunming. Now when we got to Kunming and landed, we were almost out of gas. But we made it without any problems. Nobody got in any trouble. But we got the word that the Japanese had just bombed Kunming. They had killed dozens of people and of course knocked out a lot of buildings etc., so we went into town that afternoon and had a chance to see what a bombing raid does to a town. The people that were killed and injured had already been pretty much removed, but you could see the debris from the shops and buildings, rubble in the streets, and we were sort of angry that we had missed by one day encountering the Japanese. We all said we're going to get those S.O.B's. Sure enough, they didn't come the next day. We were all on the alert. We had a couple of alert shacks, the P-40's all lined up. We had - you see these pictures where people run out with these parachutes on their backs and they're waddling - no, the parachutes are in the cockpit. You jump in and put the parachute on, you don't run along the ground and have an accident and break your leg when you're supposed to go up and shoot down Japanese. But anyway, the first word was that there were ten Japanese bombers that had crossed the Indo-China border and were headed towards Kunming. I don't know whether you know what a sphincter muscle is, but if that sphincter muscle doesn't hold, you're bound to have an accident in an airplane and I always felt fortunate that mine held and I think everybody else's did, but it starts to work. You're sitting in that plane waiting for information. We had terrible radio sets that somebody had bought in the Philippines that had nothing to do with the military plane. They were terrible and all they did was garble and garble and you could just barely get the work. They said "Okay, the First Squadron take off." I think we had twelve planes - not the whole squadron - "12 planes go ahead and take off - we had the direction �from which they were coming - intercept them". I think Ed Rector who was in the Second Squadron managed to somehow get permission to take off. He wasn't supposed to leave, but he joined in the fight and we got up to altitude, we knew that we were above the Japanese bombers, and pretty soon there's a formation of 10 Japanese planes. We'd never seen a Japanese plane in the air and here they came. We knew we had them because they were not very close to Kunming. I guess we intercepted them maybe 20 minutes out from the city. Well the first thing they did when they saw us was they turned around and started going the other way, no bombs or anything; they never got to the target. There's a little bit of conjecture about the number of planes we shot down, but we made passes on those 10 bombers. I thought that we saw only six headed back after that first engagement. There have been some reports that there were seven that headed back. But I understand that only one of those planes survived that combat, that some of them crashed on the way home, some crashed on landing at Hanoi where they came from. But after that fight, you turn around after a combat, it only takes a short time and we had no maps, and I can tell you those mountains around Kunming all looked the same. Unless you could spot a landmark, and we didn't know any landmarks except that lake at Kunming, you're sunk. Ed Rector ran out of gas and we thought that he was a goner, but the Chinese called in and said that he landed okay, he's all right. I looked around, there wasn't anybody. Pretty soon my Flight Leader, Ed Leibolt, who later lost an arm, flew up alongside of me and said follow me, gave a motion. Then there was another plane that joined up with us, Carl Brown, and we three flew along. I had the faith in Ed Leibolt. Pretty soon we came over a ridge and there was a lake, but that was not the Kunming Lake. We didn't really now it at the time, there was another lake down south of the Kunming Lake and we kept going and pretty soon we came over the Kunming Lake, we came in and landed, when we got out of the planes I said to Ed Leibolt "did you really know where you were?" He kind of smiled as if to say "I wish he wouldn't answer that question" because I don't think he knew where he was either. But we all got home okay �with no casualties and all the planes were all right. That was our first experience in combat and of course the ground personnel, the crew chiefs and the armorers were all asking questions and all exuberant "how many planes were shot down" and a lot of excitement. Then as I said for the next few weeks nothing happened at Kunming. All the action was taking place down in Rangoon and now we're all saying "when are we going to get down to Rangoon?" Well after about two or three weeks of operation in Rangoon, the Third Squadron was rotated back to Kunming, the Second Squadron went down and the First Squadron. FRANK BORING: This was your first engagement with the enemy. Was this the first time you'd ever gone into battle? JOE ROSBERT: I could tell you that nobody in the AVG had ever been in battle, except in a street brawl or something like that. No, there was no idea what that combat experience was going to be like. I can tell you that you never lose that nervous feeling from the time that you're told to scramble and you jump in the airplane and you wait and they say "okay, go". Then you go up and spot the enemy and then you engage them in combat, it's always a nervous feeling, you never lose that. You get a little more confident as you go along, and of course we had very few losses which gave us even more confidence, but we did lose some people and many of us came back with bullet holes in our planes. We knew that they were shooting real stuff at us. But we had that confidence that was reflected from Chennault himself and right through our initial successes. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 3 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert discusses his first impressions of working with the Chinese as a part of the AVG and how the news of Pearl Harbor affected their operations in the days ahead. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bb15df8a43147ce59b0b87fed7c369f0.mp4 c7141344ba5960fd4e49a71828b9182f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fe08197bf259c62775338e4c57b8b9b1.pdf b22dda943ba71719b77072b890c8f2a2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] JOE ROSBERT: At this hut, of course, they had a few open light bulbs hanging from this bamboo ceiling where the lizards were living and making terrible sounds at night. I met Sandy Sandell, who was the Squadron Commander of the First Squadron and of course, being late at night there was very little conversation. It was pointed out where my bunk was and as I said it was an army cot with a mosquito netting hanging over it. I was pretty tired so I did sleep through the night but early the next morning a car came by and took me to the mess hall where I had breakfast. Chennault had recruited people to do everything. He had Mess Sergeants and they did an excellent job. He even went so far as to engage two official photographers and later on when we got to Kunming, one of the first things he did was order a photograph taken of everybody - the pilots in the P-40's, sitting in the cockpit, and all the rest of the ground staff and headquarters people, so that when we have a reunion now, there's four groups of photos - First, Second, Third Squadron and Headquarters. But after breakfast they picked me up in a car and - I think it was an old Studebaker - which doesn't exist anymore - but that was what they had, and we went bouncing out to the air strip and I was met by Harvey Greenlaw, who was the Aide of Chennault. Now I had never heard of Chennault before I signed up, having been a navy type. I really didn't know who he was. So Harvey Greenlaw came out and he said - they called him Colonel in those days - "Colonel Chennault would like to see you and have a report on how the trip went and he wants to say a few �words to you." So I went into this austere office in the hangar metal hangar, had nothing else but the metal sheeting on the top and metal walls and open in the front and the office was off on the side and Harvey said "this is Joe Rosbert, he just brought the latest group in" and Chennault was sitting at this desk. He had a pith helmet hanging on the wall behind him. He stood up, he had khaki shorts on and that face that you never forget. I could see right away why they called him "Leatherface" because he had really a rough complexion. But he had a gentle southern voice and he said "Joe, I hear you had a few little troubles on the way with your people and especially some financial troubles, which you got through" and he said "I'm very happy that you brought the group here without losing anybody." And I can tell you, I was impressed with him right from the beginning and in the days to come where he gave lectures on the Japanese airplanes, the Japanese pilots and how they operated and I thought right away that I had made the right decision, because this was a guy I wanted to work for. FRANK BORING: After the initial meeting with Chennault, as I understand it you went immediately into training - or was it classroom - he called it "Kindergarten" - were you involved in that kindergarten? JOE ROSBERT: Oh sure. The first thing that happened before the schooling by Chennault. Now mind you, he was a teacher so he knew how to teach people from his old days in the classroom. But I was assigned to a U.S. Army Air Corps type who knew the P-40 and was a Flight Leader in the First Squadron, Bob Little. And Bob said "Well you've got the manual for the plane. When you go home tonight you read through that manual and then we'll go over the thing in the morning." I looked and that manual was very thin - a few pages - and I went through the thing and studied it pretty thoroughly and thought that I knew what was in there and I figured well now I'll get quite a bit more from Bob Little when I went to the air strip the next day, but it turned out that he took me to the P40, he said "get in the cockpit", he said "you've studied the manual", he said "here it all is like it's in the manual, I can't tell �you anymore". And the only way you checked out in the fighter plane with one seat is to get in there and start the engine and go down the runway and take off and that's what I did. And once again, when I got in the air with that P-40 after having flown the PBY in the Navy, I knew that this was for me. Now a few of our guys did get discouraged when they got to the jungle and saw the situation and turned around and went home, but the majority of us I'm sure felt like I did, that this was for us. Now to go on from learning to fly the P-40 - we flew quite frequently to become accustomed and simulated dog fights in the air - but I thought it was very impressive, the lectures that Chennault gave us. He treated us like school kids as far as knowing that we didn't have any comprehension of what the Japanese were like, had no experience, probably had never read anything about the Japanese or the Far East. So he had all the intelligence information about the Japanese airplanes, all the types, what their advantages and disadvantages were and also he knew the philosophy of the Japanese pilot. He had studied that with the Chinese and he told us (phone rings)… FRANK BORING: When you get into talking about incidents or what not, you're talking about people, you could mention their names if you remember them and anything that you remember about them - first impressions about them - as much of the personal as possible. Two of the people we're going to be asking you about are Harvey Greenlaw and also Olga, when you first met up with her. JOE ROSBERT: Unfortunately I wasn't one of the ones that got involved with her but she was a striking character. FRANK BORING: I read her book. Okay, so at this point we'll start with the schooling. JOE ROSBERT: With General Chennault's experience as a teacher, he knew how to get across the main items of what we were going to be involved in. Basically the types of Japanese planes that we were going to �encounter, their characteristics, their advantages and disadvantages and what's more, the philosophy of the Japanese pilots, which was rather important because one of the things he impressed upon us was that we had to have rubber necks in a fighter plane. In other words, if you didn't have a rubber neck and constantly look around, you were going to get caught and that occasionally you might catch a Japanese pilot who didn't have a rubber neck because they were inclined to finish a combat sequence and head home without looking back. I'm sure that a few of them were shot down under those circumstances. But, as I said, we were impressed by the way he could get things across and what's more important, that he had the information, he had the intelligence information. Later on we found out that he had offered a lot of this intelligence information to the Navy and the Army Air Corps but they never used it, unfortunately, because after Pearl Harbor and the attack on the Philippines and having to fight our way back in the Pacific, our pilots could have used that information to advantage. FRANK BORING: During the early days when you were training, there wasn't an immediate threat of war at that particular point. Tell us about some of the people that you've met. What was your impressions of - you already knew some of the people when you got there - but some of the newcomers that you didn't know of like Greenlaw, and then there's the nurses were there at that time and Olga Greenlaw had also shown up on the scene. What were the social aspects of those early days, who did you meet and what were your impressions? JOE ROSBERT: Well one of the first things that we had to do - our buddies in the same squadron - like Bob Little and Dick Rossi - we all have to go downtown together because the first thing you get is a pair of mosquito boots that came up to about mid-calf and you must have khaki shorts and a khaki shirt, but above all you have to have a pith helmet. So we proceeded to go down to this little village of Toungoo and go to the tailor. The most interesting part was getting measured for the mosquito boots because all you did was put your foot down on a piece of paper and the Chinese boot maker drew a �line around your foot and that was the size, because when the boots were finished they were perfect. So we were all dressed up now, once you got that costume, you went down the street and bought a bicycle because a bicycle was essential to get around on the air station and also in town. So everybody had a bicycle, everybody had that costume with the mosquito boots and khaki shorts and shirt and the pith helmet. In that respect we were sort of uniform although we really didn't wear uniforms. Then from there of course we got into a little bit of the social activities, which consisted mainly of Chennault's favorite, softball, it was a softball team and we had two nurses, they came out and cheered. Red Foster and I forget the other gal's name right off hand, but we were impressed with them. They seemed very professional. We had two doctors, Doc Gentry, who was the Chief Flight Surgeon. His second in command, you might say, of the medical department, Doc Richards. And then we had a dentist, Doctor Bruce. So more and more we could see that this was a complete entity, this outfit. And incidentally, to go back, when we left San Francisco, we marked all of our belongings - foot locker and what have you - with FAVG - we were the First American Volunteer Group. A lot of people in recent years have said that we didn't even know in our group that there were to be other groups, but we knew that. The word was that there were to be three groups, First, Second and Third. The second group was to be a bomber group, and the third was to be another fighter group. Of course Pearl Harbor stopped all of that. So everything we had in Toungoo was FAVG. Later on that became just simply AVG when we knew that there were not going to be any other groups. But Harvey Greenlaw was a very friendly fellow. Some people said that he wasn't too capable, but I guess he served the purpose at the time, because he did a lot of foot work and seemed to do the bidding of Chennault the way he liked it, and of course he built up the morale of the group through his wife. She apparently was a very friendly lady and some of our pilots made friends with her and I guess that boosted the social life quite a bit. Fortunately, Dick Rossi and I were church goers; we went to church on Sunday, and never got involved in that, but we heard �stories, especially after we got up to Kunming. But she kept a diary of the group and preserved the record of what we did and I think it's a rather concise diary of what happened. She was a striking woman who a lot of people don't even know what her true background was. We thought that maybe she was part Russian, part Mexican. But anyway the mixture was interesting. FRANK BORING: What was your relationship to the ground crew, Crew Chiefs? I mean these guys were responsible for keeping your airplane in shape which ultimately would keep you alive or dead up in the air. What was your relationship with them? JOE ROSBERT: The relationship with the ground staff was unique in that there was no military distinction like you have in a military organization, especially an American organization where the officers don't socialize with the enlisted people. There were no officers and enlisted men in our group. One of the things we found, we didn't know how capable they were, but we had armorers, we had crew chiefs that we found out as we went along were unequalled, hard to beat. Of course they became friends that you wouldn't find in any other type of organization, especially a military one. Any pilot from the AVG will tell you that this was an element without which we could never have done what we did. FRANK BORING: It was often spoken, this spirit, this can-do spirit that developed during the early days and became very intense during the initial battles. When you go up in an airplane, I would imagine it's very important to feel that that airplane was ready to fly. If you could somehow touch upon just some of the things that you talked about with the crew chiefs, not so much detail technically and what not, but what were the kind of things that you guys discussed before you actually got into an airplane to go up? JOE ROSBERT: One of the things that the crew chiefs did was give us a lot of confidence. And I can tell you that in all my experience in the AVG, I was told that the plane was ready, I never had any �mechanical trouble with the P-40 that I flew, never. And that will instill a lot of confidence in a pilot. But the other thing, they could improvise and get the plane back in the air with the least amount of effort and it was mainly due to their knowledge of the airplane and the meticulous way in which they took care of them. Each crew chief figured that this was his own - almost felt like he was flying in the airplane. I came back from a combat mission one time out of Rangoon, where I engaged bombers that had a tail gunner on each one. Our procedure of course was to maintain altitude and speed, dive on the plane, come around again and get that altitude back, and continue with that kind of a procedure, never getting yourself in a position where you lost the altitude advantage. When I got back from this one mission, when I pulled up to the line the crew chief said "what's wrong with your rudder?" and I said "I didn't feel anything wrong with it" and he said "well take a look" and I got out of the cockpit and looked back and half of the rudder was shot off. That didn't faze him a bit, he just went and got some masking tape, taped up that rudder and within about a half an hour the plane was ready to go on another mission. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 2 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert describes his first meeting with General Chennault and how impressed he was with Chennault and his teachings, in addition to his relationship with the ground crew. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d99cfe62685893f05009c328362fb51.mp4 b8f811dc11655523d7037cdb1d2d6919 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3a2bfa1c0c4be2fada4e264c4986e8aa.pdf f90da8051c9e2740d6fd4b8d433a99d5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Camille J. “Joe” Rosbert Date of Interview: 02-21-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: If we could begin by your telling us what you were doing prior to AVG? JOE ROSBERT: Well in late 1930's, which was pretty much the height of the depression, I was graduated as a chemical engineer from Villanova in Pennsylvania and there was no way to get a job in those days. So during the last days of my schooling at Villanova, a team of naval aviators came from the Philadelphia Navy Yard and showed a movie called "Pensacola, the Annapolis of the Air" and when I saw those pilots learning to fly, plus the beautiful beaches in Pensacola and the pretty girls, I went up and signed the paper at that point and that was the start of my career as a naval aviator. I went from Pensacola after the training as an Ensign and was stationed at North Island in San Diego, flying a patrol plane; a lumbering old amphibian and we would go out all day on patrols up the coast to Alameda, California and back down to North Island. One night when I came home from one of those flights, my buddy - roommate actually - he had been celebrating and he said "there's a fellow who's going to come on the station tomorrow morning and talk about flying fighters in China". I said "you're drunk, go to bed." But sure enough, the next morning the word spread that there was a retired naval officer who was coming on the station and was going to talk to people who might be interested in this program. So I went and listened and it was a very interesting adventure, to my mind, that was coming up. First of all, it was �possible to get into flying fighters and escape from the lumbering PBY. Also when they mentioned names like Rangoon, Indonesia, China, Kunming, I thought this is for me. And when he finished that little spiel, I went up and signed the paper again. Unfortunately, he said "you're a PBY pilot and we've already taken some pilots of heavier planes, but we want experienced fighter pilots." So I was very discouraged and as I was walking away, one of my buddies said "there's a navy chief up at Alameda who is in on this recruiting program and if you can get up there and talk to him, he will probably help you out." So I thought, well this is a chance, so I arranged with the operations officer to fly up to Alameda. I talked to him on the telephone and he said "well I can see you're very interested. The chance lies at March field where one of our recruiters is going to go and sign up some U.S. Army Air Corps types and I will tell him you're coming if you can get over there." So I flew back to North Island, arranged a couple of days off, I drove up to March Field and here was this recruiter signing up the Army Air Corps pilots, and he allowed me to sign a contract. And that's how I got taken into the AVG program. FRANK BORING: What was the process and how did you react to the process of getting out of the situation you were in and actually into the AVG? JOE ROSBERT: Well the recruiter forewarned us that there might be a little negative feeling about resigning from the military, but that Washington had instructed most of these people that they were to accept resignations for this program, that it was an official U.S. Government program. So when I went in and talked to my commanding officer, I was the youngest Patrol Plane Commander in the naval aviation program. He had just promoted me to Patrol Plane Commander. When I told him I wanted to go he was a little disappointed except I could see that in his eyes if he were a little bit younger he would have wanted to go too, so he said "well, I wish you luck. I'll accept the resignation and you go ahead." I went through a procedure that took about 2 days, checking out at North Island and U.S. Navy Headquarters in San Diego and �eventually they signed all the papers and I was out of the navy within about 2 days. FRANK BORING: What was specifically told to you? What was promised to you in terms of your resignation? What were you expecting and what were you told? JOE ROSBERT: We were told that we would fly P-40's, first of all. They gave us the pay scale which ran from $600.00 for us men up to $750.00 for Squadron Leaders. The one thing that always griped us later on was that they told us that the time that we spent in the AVG would be counted as part of our service record. Now unfortunately, through all the talking and explaining what the program was, that particular stipulation was not good in the contract. In other words, it was a verbal thing. But the most important point was that all of the people who signed up in the AVG had been given the same message. In other words, it wasn't a mistaken idea that a few people in one place had taken on, but that everyone knew that that was the arrangement that our military record would reflect that time in the AVG. Even the pilots who later on signed up to go into the U.S. Army Air Corps were not given credit for that time. FRANK BORING: What were your expectations - I mean even before you got on the boat? What were your expectations of what you were going to find when you arrived in China? JOE ROSBERT: Well my first expectation was that I was going to have a good time on the ship and when we were gathered in the room just before sailing time, the man who was in charge of seeing us off said "and now of course we have to put somebody in charge of this group that will see that you get to Rangoon in one piece and that person will be Joe Rosbert." And I looked around to see who that was and then I realized that they had - without even consulting me - had put me in charge of this group. My face fell a little bit because I could see that this was going to be quite a chore. All these guys had already been celebrating for about 3 or 4 days in San Francisco. �They all had guns; they all were ready to go. But it turned out pretty well. We had some great adventures on the way. It took us about a month and a half to get from San Francisco to Rangoon and I did have some trouble makers to contend with and they practically gave the Captain of the ship apoplexy because some of them one night got drunk and wound up in the crow’s nest and were looking for Japanese ships on the horizon and really drove the crew crazy on the ship. But other than that it was an interesting experience, that month and a half traveling to Rangoon. FRANK BORING: You were told originally that you were going to China. How did it affect you that you suddenly realized you were going to Rangoon? Did they tell you why you were going to Rangoon? JOE ROSBERT: Yes. That was the port that was open. You see, the main purpose of this group was to be to protect the supply line known as the Burma Road. And the starting point of the Burma Road was Rangoon which was the port where all the supplies came in, because everything along the coastal areas of China had been taken by the Japanese. All the port cities and the areas around them were occupied by the Japanese military. So yes, we were advised that we were going there to protect the Burma Road, we'd go to Rangoon and from Rangoon we would go to a staging area in the middle of Burma, and after we had acquainted ourselves with the P-40 and learned a few tactics from Chennault, we would go to China. That was the whole purpose of the group, which we were going to be headquartered in Kunming, China and so we were prepared for that part of it. Now they did tell us "you probably will never see a Japanese enemy plane, but if you do when you shoot down a Japanese plane, you will be paid $500.00 for each plane. Now that was a verbal thing. But the Chinese Government was the one that administered that payment and we did get paid the $500.00 for each plane later on. One of the things - I don't know whether you're interested in this detail - but as we went along they had given me a certain sum of money to take care of any expenses that came up. By the time we got down to Indonesia and then went �up to Singapore, we were broke and I tell you, these guys had bar bills on that ship and the ship only went as far as Singapore. We had to arrange for a freighter to go from there to Rangoon. There was no money and all along I was sending cables. I went to see the American Ambassador in Singapore and he - nothing…I went to see the Chinese Ambassador. Well he sent a message to Kunming and finally they delivered money so we could pay the bar bills of the guys to get them off the ship. This Captain of the ship he said "we can't let those guys go." They were practically imprisoned. Then of course, I had the money to pay for this freighter. I took them all out - they were raising such hell - I took them - this guy on the freighter was really a tough Captain. I said "look, I need a favor from you - I know we're not sailing for 2 or 3 days but I'd like to bring these guys down now". He said "bring 'em down now they won't get off this ship." So I don't know whether that's interesting or not - I mean for what you want to do. FRANK BORING: There was supposedly a level of secrecy to what you were doing the fact that you were going over there under - you weren't going as pilots, you were going as salesmen and all this kind of stuff. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, in terms of what you went under and really how secret was this whole mission? JOE ROSBERT: The mission, right from the beginning was very hush-hush. When we got to San Francisco, and put up in the hotel, one of the things that they did - they sent us down to the Federal Building to get passports and we were told that we would be given, among other things, categories that had nothing to do with aviation. Some people were listed as engineers, some as farm experts for agriculture and things like that and they even had one fellow that was listed as a missionary and there were missionaries on every one of these Dutch ships. On one Sunday they called knowing he was listed as a missionary, called him up to give the sermon and actually he did a pretty good job. He did give a sermon and the missionaries thought he was legitimate. But that was the kind of secrecy we had and also the American Consuls and Embassies in �the cities where the ship stopped didn't know very much at all, it was kept very quiet and the Chinese Consul in Singapore, where I had to arrange for trans-shipment because the original Dutch ship that we were on, that was the end of their trip, he had an inkling and he did send a message and get a response to where we could get enough money to get everybody out of hock on the ship and pay their bills and put them up in hotels, but I tell you, it was a wild group and they caused so much trouble in the hotel, that I had arranged with this freighter to take them on and the Captain, he was a tough guy, he said "just bring them down and I'll see that they don't get off the ship." I did, I herded them all in taxi cabs and took them down to the ship, except for a few of us pilots who were in the Raffles Hotel. We enjoyed another 2 or 3 days before we got on the freighter. But it was a pretty secret thing that did not get out. I think that was reflected if we go ahead a little bit and get into the first activities of combat - that the Japanese were really surprised. They had no idea what this group was going to be like and the odds they were against. FRANK BORING: What did you find when you - do you remember who was that guy? Who was the guy who gave the sermon, the missionary? What did you find when you first arrived in Rangoon? JOE ROSBERT: Well first of all the trip up the Rangoon River is about - I think 40 or 50 miles before you get to the port and it winds along and this jungle atmosphere was very impressive and the Captain was giving me a run-down like a tourist on what to expect. You could see shining in the sun from miles away the Shwedagon Pagoda, a Buddhist temple that was covered with gold leaf and he gave me the name of it and some statistics about it, etc. until finally we got up - there were ships parked all along the middle of this river because the supplies were coming in for the Burma Road and we had to anchor out in the middle of the river and then they ushered us ashore with boats. Rangoon impressed me, as I thought it would be just from the name "Rangoon", it was kind of a romantic place. Of course when you got on shore it wasn't all that romantic. These �people chewed betel nut, and betel nut produces a red spit and all the sidewalks are covered with this red spit and it didn't look too sanitary to us. But they brought us to the Strand Hotel, which was right on the front of the port, almost like a Colonial type building, white wooden building, that the British had built. They gave us lunch there and they told me that they were going to herd this group immediately out to the railroad station and send them on up to Toungoo about 150 miles north in the middle of the jungle. I found out later, because they didn't want them in town for one night, knowing how - I guess from the first group that arrived - that hell was raised, so they wanted to avoid any trouble like that. I stayed over to give an account of the trip and turned in an expense report and then I want the next day on the train alone and I tell you, when I arrived it was dark and the trains that they had, you got into a compartment with no aisle along the train. In other words, it was locked from the outside until you got to the next station and then they would open the door for whatever you had to do, etc. until we got to Toungoo and I heard all these voices outside, banging on the doors and raising hell and they finally got my compartment open. They said "Oh, here he is" and they took me into the little town and then on out to the air strip and everything was blacked out. They took me to where my squadron was, the first squadron and they turned on one light and it was like a long bamboo shack. We had army cots, wooden floors, and big lizards in the ceiling and enamel wash basins to shave in the morning, and 50 gallon drums up above for the water supply. We had 3 huts like that for the three squadrons and then there was a headquarters hut and another one for the mess hall. That was our group, about a mile away from the air strip and that was the set-up and one of the things they told us, among others, was that first of all be sure that your mosquito net is tucked in at night or you're going to wind up with malaria. The other was that in the morning you'd better shake out your boots because they're going to be filled with scorpions. So we had a pretty good welcome to the jungle. �FRANK BORING: What was your first contact with official AVG? Was it CAMCO people, was it Pauli’s people, or was it Chennault's people? What was your first contact with the official AVG people? JOE ROSBERT: In Burma? FRANK BORING: Yeah, when you arrived there - I mean somebody welcomed you? Who was that? JOE ROSBERT: Yes, when I – of course somebody from the office in Rangoon met us and took us to the hotel for lunch and the next morning when I went to the office, that was a CAMCO office. It was staffed by Pauli’s people. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rosbert_Joe_1991-02-21_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosbert, Camile J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-02-21 Title A name given to the resource Joe Rosbert interview (video and transcript, 1 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Joe Rosbert Joe by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Rosbert served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Flight Leader in the 1st Squadron "Adam and Eve." He joined the AVG after serving in the US Navy, and remained until it disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rosbert discusses his background as a naval aviator before being recruited into the American Volunteer Group, in addition to his journey overseas and arrival in Rangoon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d7915c2a3ec42c4891aed5e38475f20c.mp4 7ecf6c4d10188a0e2f1bad67396aca93 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9e922527f3b1764233b31d81731cd3a4.pdf 76a43d43e46c5b2f4ebc521221de5573 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Lewis J. Richards, M.D. (known as “Doc Rich”) Date of Interview: 05-30-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: Why would you resist Olga Greenlaw? DOC RICH: When I was asked by Harvey Greenlaw to go over to see Olga Greenlaw and she was ill. I went over and she wasn’t ill that was just a come on or an invitation and yea a man could weaken but that would have been a stupid maneuver especially in my position. Pilots that’s a little different. FRANK BORING: I wonder if you could repeat the comments about Stillwell and his walking out of the jungle. DOC RICH: Uh, Bissell, General Bill Bissell, I did not meet him. He did threaten the men and coerce them to go into the army then and but Stillwell decided he would walk out uh, so he walked out with the nurses from the Burma uh, road uh doctor. Uh to me that was asinine because here we have a man that the government has much money invested in and as a general he could have been of great service. Why he would do this I don’t know, maybe he was tired of the service and he wanted to get out .Maybe he wanted to make a name for himself and I’m sure a lot of people thought that was great but I thought it was the exemplification of stupidity. DOC RICH: No, I just can’t recall it at all. �DOC RICH: Chennault and I were not too close. He was stubborn and I’m not exactly soft but I never was very close to uh, Chennault however, uh, Dr. Gentry who was all army and I was outspoken and I think, when I stop and think of it at this instant, I wouldn’t be surprised if Gentry who was probably a roadblock keeping me at a distance. DOC RICH: Well I’m pretty well outspoken, in fact uh, it’s my trait. Uh, I play no cards under the table, I, I straight forward and I , I probably wouldn’t make a good diplomat., but again on the other hand I think maybe I could win votes by my candid [?]. And people even today say, well you may not like Dr. Richards you sure know where you stand. DOC RICH: Well the last months with the AVG, was ah, I couldn’t see a great deal of change between that and the other months. I had a job to do and I went to work every morning and was uh, I never missed a sick call or anything else with one exception. I did get Dengue fever after I left there. But, uh, I, I couldn’t see any great deal of difference. The morale of the men was high, uh P. Green and Bob Prescott’s used that as an example to get a circumcised. And I always said that the purpose of that was not so much to get circumcised. I thought that perhaps they were just tired of flying or didn’t want to fly anymore. This is my candid opinion. DOC RICH: Well while I was there, as far as there being big obstacles, uh, with AVG and the lack of the uh, the ideal, uh, hospitalization. I could not see them as uh, an obstacle. I look at it as to make do with what you can. And that’s the way I operated. DOC RICH: They were two fine nurses. Uh, Red Petach was a hard worker. Uh, she was a workhorse. The other one was a may, was head nurse and she felt that. And the same as Gentry - was the leading doctor I’m in charge and all too much military. But when it came to the workhorse, Red was the one. DOC RICH: None �DOC RICH: We had a nice group of (hold on, get settled and comfortable) uh, uh, uh, medical corps men were good men. In fact they were excellent. Viverette was a quiet fellow. He knew a lot of things that went on and he would be a very good one for you to interview. Uh, he’s close lipped, he kept his mouth shut. Uh, the uh, we, uh, uh, had two or three others there uh, but Robert Gallagher was excellent and he was a top chiro man of the bunch. And he came back and studied medicine and graduated. We also had uh, uh, Carl Brown did you know of him? And Carl Brown has since come back. He was a good pilot. He was a brain. He’s got his nose in the book all the time. He reads incessantly. He came back. He studied medicine. He also became an anesthesiologist. He is now a neurologist. And he also took up the law and he has a law degree. And he is a brain. DOC RICH: Now, or afterwards? FRANK BORING: Looking at it from your perspective now. Looking back. DOC RICH: The AVG was an unusual group. (Go ahead) The AVG group was an unusual group. They were renegades of course. Uh, probably many of us were dissatisfied in the service and that’s the reason they were there. Boyington was the only service man that was released and he was released because they couldn’t handle him. Uh, other than that, these men did an excellent job. Surprisingly, it’s ah, it’s ah, unbelievable the high rank and the station of life that they have taken. Charlie Holder became a judge that handled the Manson case. Uh, Prescott, Bob Prescott put in the flying Tiger Freight Line. Uh, Duke Hedman, was the only man I know of that was chief pilot of three different airlines. Uh, many of them became uh, airline pilots for CNAC no not CNAC for commercial airlines in the states. I have to say one thing, their achievement was great. Their record after, after they was in the service is something to be proud of. �DOC RICH: In terms of Chinese history, the AVG, I think has been paid the highest tribute of any fighter group there. I’m sure that if it hadn’t been for the AVG, China would have fallen. Had the uh, Japs had knowledge of the small group that was there, they could have come in and destroyed us. They did not have the knowledge. Uh, the great credit that belongs to these men as the pilots was from their own ability to handle a P40. And also too, I have to give credit to the radio service. I think that we do not give enough credit to them. Bill Williams was in charge of it. And they always knew which direction the Japs were coming in to make a raid. And how did they know it? Because of the underground Chinese with their radios would see the planes coming back way back. Would call in ahead. And that is another factor that contributes greatly to success and I think have not been given the credit they should have. It was remarkable. Uh, the only, Chi… uh, the Japanese could never figure out how did it and once they got wise they came in and went and then turned off course and went somewhere else and they got thru that time. But they only got thru the one time. DOC RICH: During the time of the AVG, I think I, my personal accomplishment, I gave much to the men, I helped them. I enjoyed the uh, the excitement. Uh, I think uh, probably if I’d of come back and joined the army I would have been ahead. I’d of probably been dead. But I would have probably been ahead because I would have got a good pension. And none of us got any pensions. Uh, Uh, I still would have probably done the same thing, but we can all look back and see different roads that we could have and should have taken. But other than that, it was an adventure, it was an experience. Uh, I get ah, ah, a lot of glory and honor but ah, that means nothing to me, I don’t need boosting. DOC RICH: Well, I’m proud of it. Being called a Flying Tiger, uh, I’m quite proud of it. Uh, uh, it was a group that was unusual. Even Churchill made the remark and if the Flying Tigers had not been there, China would have fallen. There’s no doubt in my mind about it. Uh, I’ve enjoyed every bit of it. The excitement, the challenge �and everything else. I do think uh, that uh, we paid a price by losing, not getting a pension. But after all, we it was our choice, we were a bunch of renegades and that’s what you have to do. FRANK BORING: That was excellent. DOC RICH: Was it really? How did it compare? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rich_Doc_1991-05-30_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richards, Lewis J., M.D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Lewis "Doc Rich" Richards interview (video and transcript, 5 of 5), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Dr. Lewis Richards by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dr. Lewis J. Richards, or "Doc Rich" as he was known in the American Volunteer Group (AVG), served as the unit's Flight Surgeon. In this tape, Richards discusses the last months of the AVG and his reflection on the achievements of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0c17f91663e8ef12c876076eaa190649.mp4 15fe6516ee543a24e42a76f11f8edcca https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/426275cbdbc20de7aef0b2bf4ace0345.pdf 8e820c0db6fe47da53e300fb3ace8008 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Lewis J. Richards, M.D. (known as “Doc Rich”) Date of Interview: 05-30-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] DOC RICH: You know Pappy set one of those airplanes down in a rice field and he did it deliberate. I don’t know whether you know it or not, I probably shouldn’t put it in but he did it deliberate. You ask some of the ground men and they’ll tell you. He was not the hero he’s supposed to be. But, you get a columnist to write stuff up you know, he can glorify sin. FRANK BORING: According to what we’ve read there was a time you told Boyington he better stop drinking or it would kill him. Do you recall that? DOC RICH: I don’t re...ah, ah, at one time, I think some of the pilots did drink too much and Boyington was the epitome of it. And I cautioned him to quit drinking but, uh… DOC RICH: Ah, I recall some of the pilots, and after all it’s quite understandable that the pilots would drink heavy after a strenuous day of fighting they had to have some let down. At that time liquor was plentiful and uh, it was a relaxation but Boyington oh, he drank far in excess and I cautioned him repeatedly but trying to tell a man that he’s an alcoholic, whooo I can handle it, I’m not drinking too much, but that was one of his weaknesses. �FRANK BORING: Do you recall any incidents that you remember distinctly about Boyington and his drinking whether it was a fight or any incident that stuck out in your mind? DOC RICH: No. FRANK BORING: Do you recall Bert Christman? DOC RICH: There was a man by name of Bert Christman and I don’t recall him and I just don’t know what’s happened to him. Uh, a nice fellow, I just don’t recall Bert Christman at all. FRANK BORING: You mentioned Brouk? DOC RICH: Um, Brouk was a pilot, no, I take it back Brouk was a ground crew man. He got shot up with buck shrapnel. I don’t know when he may have been a pilot at that time. I don’t think so, but anyway there was shrapnel all through him and we went ahead and took most of the big pieces of shrapnel out and there was a lot of little pieces and he says well How about taking them out and I says no way, I’d have to butcher you .I says you’ll live with them they won’t hurt you you’ll be a man of iron afterwards. DOC RICH: One of the things about Charlie Bond as I recall after he was burned. We didn’t have the modern experience at that time that we do in burn treatment and so we, uh, Jepson violet which is the, which is a dye that we painted these burned areas out with and it seemed to keep down infection and surprisingly he came out practically with no scars at all. FRANK BORING: Describe being bombed, as in the airplanes shooting, perhaps even a [?] shot or one of the more violent episodes. DOC RICH: Several times we were bombed and there’s big blockbusters that scare you to death. We made a run one night for the trenches and uh, uh, I can’t recall the man’s name just now uh, he was with us �uh, he uh we made a run for the trenches and I got in the trench and he couldn’t find it and finally he got in there. He says next time they’ll never catch me on the ground. I’ll be in the air, I’m safer. Another time, I was in uh, uh, oh… FRANK BORING: Wasn’t it Black Mac McGarry? DOC RICH: Black Mac McGarry. DOC RICH: One time, we were, uh, there was a bombing raid and Black Mac McGarry, a pilot was there with us and they were dropping the bombs and boy we had to run for it and he didn’t know, I said follow me I’ll find the trench and I found the trench and he came running and actually went clear over the trench. He finally came back and got in the trench with me and after the jing bow was over he made the remark you’ll never find me on the ground again, I’ll be up in the air it’s safer. There’s another incidence when we were at uh, I can’t think of the name of the town right off. We was out in the desert and uh, there was an air raid coming and we had to run for it. And it was a little British sergeant or corporal with me and we were running hard to get to a culvert uh we finally got in the culvert and on the way down there though I looked back over my shoulder and here came a Jap plane strafing and he was about fifty maybe twenty five yards to our left of us and you could see the bullets hitting the ground and kicking up the sand from the desert. If he’d been on course we would have had it. When we got there we climbed into the culvert and I happened to get in there first and he came in last and I said let’s get out of here now that it’s over and I like to never got him out of there. I talked to him I says we have to get out of here cause all these trucks are lined up over here and that’s the first thing they are going to strafe and we’re going get it. Finally I got him out. That was a little hazardous event. Disturbed me, I mean it made you think. But we didn’t have time to think. Our thinking wasn’t in our legs it was in our savior. FRANK BORING: Do you recall the bombing of Paoshan? �DOC RICH: That’s where Benny Foshee was killed, I think, yes. DOC RICH: I told you uh, when we were in Paoshan the Japs came over and bombed Paoshan and they, as I related to you before about the truck load of ammunition, they put a bomb right through it and that was also true in the compound out in the open part of it where Benny Foshee was killed. FRANK BORING: What were you doing while the bombing was going on? DOC RICH: While the bombing was going on, I was out on the air strip. DOC RICH: When we were at the bombing of Paoshan I was always given the duty of being on the airplane, air strip. And as soon as we heard that uh, what had happened, it took quite a while to get thru the traffic on these narrow roads between these rice paddies to get back to the base and of course all of our ammunition was blown up and Benny Foshee was gone. FRANK BORING: Could you describe for us from the perspective of the air field, watching the battle the Japanese fighters against the tigers and watching the Japanese get shot down? DOC RICH: I recall one incident when I was on the on the line and the Japs were making a raid and quite a few of them and uh, the uh, fellows were in their P-40’s and they were diving on them and I remember one instance 4, I saw 4 Japanese planes go down at once. All in flames, that was quite a spectacle. Another incident I recall too, is when uh, the man setting in the uh, the uh, in the air no, no when they were in training, every time Conant came in, he wrecked the plane. He just couldn’t handle the P-40's. They put him in another plane and made him go up right away and they kept wrecking he wrecked three planes and finally they gave up on him. But Buster Keeton was there with me and he was standing there and he says boy oh, boy, oh boy if Conant came in I came out here if �somebody had just had a camera. I said Bus what the hell’s hanging around your neck. And he had his camera hanging there. He’s never forgotten that and he’s never forgiven me. Uh, I always called Buster Keeton, I had a nice little nickname for him I called him lard in a can. DOC RICH: Well this was interesting, it was interesting, you know. He says boy if someone had just had a camera and he came out there with his camera especially to catch him and he performed, he ruined the plane and I says what the hell’s hanging around your neck. DOC RICH: I forget why it was. He was a little heavy in the butt. And I, I just I had a nickname for all of them. FRANK BORING: What were some of the nicknames you had for the guys? DOC RICH: Well, I uh, [?] called Benny Foshee baldy or cue ball cause he was totally bald and uh, uh, they had different names I can’t recall them right now. DOC RICH: There was a man by the name of Skip Adair that was a sort of a right hand man to Harvey Greenlaw and to the general. He was a great big massive fellow. I could never see just a lot what Skip did. I thought probably he was more sort of a PR man and did a lot of the little runnings for the general, lot of leg work. Other than that I was not very familiar with Skip. FRANK BORING: How about Boatner Carney? DOC RICH: There was a man by the name of Boatner Carney but I just can’t recall all these incidents. He was quite a character too. DOC RICH: There was smuggling done by many of the pilots and the smuggling in China at that time was acceptable and it still is. The only thing that’s unacceptable if you get caught. That’s your stupidity and of course, I think they smuggled a little bit and some �of them would take CNAC and up there and change it with the market but uh, that’s life in the Orient and that’s an acceptable part of it. DOC RICH: No they flew us up to, I was flown up to Ch… Chunking I didn’t drive up there. Big driving I did was coming up the Burma Road from Rangoon to Loiwing. DOC RICH: No. DOC RICH: Do you really want that? Olga Greenlaw was a beautiful lady. Uh, if I think right she was part Russian, uh, luscious, attractive, sexy and uh, I’m not sure about the rest of her activities. But it’s been rumored and everyone has their suspicion. DOC RICH: Better not. May I ask what they said? DOC RICH: Olga Greenlaw. Another incident about Olga Greenlaw she’s a beautiful lady, sexy, attractive, uh, hard to resist and I’m sure she trifled a lot on Harvey Greenlaw and uh, there’s no, it’s just purely rumor but I’m sure that there was indulgence by numerous pilots in fact I recall once I was called over to see her and she was sick and I went over to her and here she had, all she had on was a night gown and you could see clear thru. But cautious me, I know better. That really struck me, I never forgot it. Cause there’s all for the asking, but no thank you. FRANK BORING: When did you first start hearing rumors about the induction of the AVG in to the Army? DOC RICH: Towards the termination there was Ok. Toward the termination of our uh, uh, service uh, one of the generals came down and he was not a, I think it was Bissell if I recall right. It was not popular at all with uh, Chennault. They were at conflict. But they were going to show us you are going to get in the army. If you don’t go in the army, we’ll draft you when we get to the States and quite a few of �the fellows went in then. The others, uh I was with a group of fellows who chose to go home. When I got to the other side of India I got a call from CNAC Charlie Sharp and asking me to uh, come down to see if I would take a job as a medical director with Chinese National Aviation Corp. which was a subdivision of pan America. And Mickey Mickelson and I were roommates and Mickey he said he was going down and insisted that I come. I said the men had asked if they could get me. They were quite conscious of wanting medical care. And I talked to Charlie Sharp and told him I said well Charlie, I’ve got my fare paid on a ship. I says, suppose I come down for an interview and I don’t like you and you don’t like me, what’s going to happen? He said we’ll see that you get home, and I turned to Mickey and said what’ll you do? And he said let’s go down and we went down and joined up with CNAC and I became their medical director and unfortunately Mickey Mickelson was lost in the uh, flying over the hump. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rich_Doc_1991-05-30_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richards, Lewis J., M.D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Lewis "Doc Rich" Richards interview (video and transcript, 4 of 5), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Dr. Lewis Richards by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dr. Lewis J. Richards, or "Doc Rich" as he was known in the American Volunteer Group (AVG), served as the unit's Flight Surgeon. In this tape, Richards describes seeking cover in the trenches during times of bombing and his perspective of the air field while watching the Flying Tigers battle the Japanese. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/16e5b49cd765c27a30f2c6f42a5f5376.mp4 6640268c86e05a71acbfe24110fe7554 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d805208267385aee98ad90e10c500e55.pdf 8767e9aa345a466eb0aab079658fac4b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Lewis J. Richards, M.D. (known as “Doc Rich”) Date of Interview: 05-30-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] DOC RICH: One instance that I forgot to mention coming up the Burma road, I had a little Studebaker, and Bob Locke had a jeep and he had a tiger in the jeep with him and I would have nothing to do with the tiger uh, but uh, he had a lot of fun with it and whenever the natives would try to steal stuff out of his truck the tiger was a very effective deterrent. Uh, also too, while we were at Paoshan, and we lost uh, uh, I don’t know if it was Faust or what, we were at Paoshan or not, we lost cut, who was the one of the two men? Oh, Fauth and Swartz, Swartz. We lost Fauth and Swartz, uh and I was staying up most of the night, uh to attend to them what little I could because we didn’t have much in my medical bag. Uh, uh, the men were to take turns and to call me if they needed something and all of a sudden they called me and I went over there and checked some of the fellows and Bob Prescott said that, uh Doc. there’s, I think one of these coolies are dead. I says “OK” so I went over there and then we went to his bunk and they had double deck bunks and he was up on the second bunk, and the guy got out. It was a Gurkha guard and he saluted me and mentioned in Gurkha language uh, about the man in the bed and I reached over and the man was cold, free.., icy cold and I said well the man is dead and they interpreted to him. The man saluted again and got back up and got back in bed. Uh, And uh, Bob Prescott says, Doc, Doc, look doc, he’s getting back into bed. I says yes I know. He said what’s the matter with him? I said, hell, Bob he slept with he’s sleepy. �And he called me every dirty name in the world. Told me how merciless I was. Cut. Now let me think what else, couldn’t leave that one out. Another incident, want me to start on. Another incident that I failed to mention, someone in the night had got from an air raid had got cut and we proceeded to sew him up and was all we had was a flash light and I thought Moose Moss was holding the flash light and I says after a while he couldn’t hold the flash light still. I says Moose, oh no, it was Prescott holding the flashlight and after a while he wasn’t holding it still. I says dammit hold that flashlight so I can see. And it kept getting worse and I says Moose quit goosing Bob Prescott and all of a sudden thug Bob was holding the flashlight and he fainted. Cut. I never will forget that. FRANK BORING: Just let it go. We’ll cut it. Don’t worry about it. DOC RICH: Let me think a few minutes. FRANK BORING: No I mean don’t say the cut. Because your comments after you say cut are usually just as good as the story itself, so… DOC RICH: As far as the AVG medical supplies why we had ample drugs of all kinds, and plenty of it. Uh, we had a pretty good little set up at the hospital to treat them in and most of the stuff was done at local anesthesia and as I’ve said, if there was any, as we’ve said if there were any accidents they were terminal. Other than that it was malaria, Dengue fever, ah, usual diarrhea and the usual run of the mill of things that you could take care of even at home if you had to. FRANK BORING: OK. DOC RICH: Cut if you want to, because I can’t think of it now. �FRANK BORING: No, that was fine. What about in the field though? Away from the hospital what kind of conditions were you operating under in the field? DOC RICH: Once I was away from the hospital, the operating conditions were perfectly ideal. I had the medicines and my little Studebaker and I had my medical box and that was the sum total of all of it. Do you want to cut it? No, no wait a minute, let me, I got to think about this stuff. FRANK BORING: Ok. DOC RICH: You ready? We went up to Kunming and when I was up at Kunming, I was setting on the line with the ambulance for all the uh, planes to take off and anything that happened or the fellows didn’t feel good, we’d take care of them. And all of them had trouble with their ears from flying and different things. Colonel Scott came up to visit and he would fly his airplane back and forth but he would never go with a group. He made the remarks, boys I’m going to make go out here with a flight and a run and so he was going to go the next morning. He never showed up till noon and he says gentlemen I’m sorry I overslept. He says, don’t worry we’re just getting ready to take off. We were fogged in and he would not go. Scott used to get in his airplane and fly around as a lone, loner and he would tell what he saw and who he shot down. The boys, the armour boys questioned very much, so they taped up the end of the cannons and when he came back and said what he shot down, the guns had not been fired. Cut it off. Let me think a minute. FRANK BORING: Doc don’t worry about… DOC RICH: I remember one incident Moose Moss was using the modern toilets we had which was a trench. A straddle trench and he sent down and says have doc come up in a hurry. I says what happened? He says emergency. I says what's the emergency? While he was on the �straddle trench, a bee stung him on the dong and he says well that’s not too important and he says the hell it isn’t tell him to get up here and take the sting out of this but don’t take the swelling out of it. Cut it off. FRANK BORING: We’re going to see Moose next week. We’ll say hello for you. DOC RICH: The Chinese personnel was taken care of by the Chinese doctors while I was there. I did not take care of many of the Chinese. We referred them over because there’s a language barrier too. FRANK BORING: Did you have any contact with the Chinese doctors at all do you have any evaluation of their skills? DOC RICH: I had very little contact with them. They kept us busy at all times. One incident that did happen though, uh when I was at Kunming. About Sam Prevo the orthopedist was down at Toungoo and they called me and I was taking care of the line at, uh Kunming and sentry said we’re going to send you down to the uh, to the uh, front to relieve Sam Prevo. I said how come? They said Sam’s drinking too much. So on the way down to there, we they had a pilot and Three Star Hennessy used to fly the plane and on the way down Hennessy was not quite sure where he was whether south or north of Toungoo. I said Hennessy we’re north of Toungoo. He said how do you know? I said North of Toungoo there’s only one railroad track. South of Toungoo there’s two railroad tracks and if we went in to make our landing, the whole airfield was disheveled. They had just made a bombing raid and Sam ran out to get in the plane, and they told us to get under cover and Hennessy came back with Sam. And I spent the, that’s when I started staying down there, made a trip up the Burma Road. Tom, ah, Hennessy was, remembers that and he was so grateful, cause I know he was lost. FRANK BORING: Did you meet any Chinese? You heard about Pearl Harbor? �DOC RICH: Another incident on December the 8th, we were at Toungoo and we heard, woke up the next morning and heard that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. All night long airplanes were flying over our area and we were so well camouflaged that they couldn’t find us. If they had we’d of all been destroyed. I think the uh, good Lord had his hand around us then. FRANK BORING: What was your personal reaction to the Pearl Harbor event knowing that America now was at war and you were right in the front lines? DOC RICH: Well, my personal reaction just when all this happened did not disturb me. They sent uh, uh Sam Prevo down to Rangoon and uh, one of our first our first battle front down there - one of our fine men who I cannot recall was lost there. I can’t recall his name uh, but it didn’t disturb me. I respected it the excitement and the challenge so what I take life as it comes. DOC RICH: This time, there was another incident. The uh, Shilling, Mangleburg and I can’t think of the other pilot’s name just right off. We were flying up from uh, Toungoo up north and of course they put on a big show and they ran out of gas before they got up there. Uh these men had to crash land and I was sent down at Christmas time to uh, Christy [?] to go down there and he and I went down to locate them and I forget the little town way up in the hills. And on the way down I was driving the truck like mad and the roads were terrible Christy says Doc, if you don’t go slower this truck won’t hold out. Well we kept on going and we got down there and we then we couldn’t... it was inland so we parked the car and we went inland, walked inland and as we walked inland we had to stay overnight at some of these fancy hotels which was nothing but a board to lay on and we didn’t have any blankets. So as we went on in to the area and walked out always we had people, Chinese that were coming into the market in this little country town who’d bring us messages. And they’d located Shilling and uh, I think it was, Mangleburg was killed and the other fellow was �living and as we stood there it was interesting, the large number of people who went by men and women. I had the man that was with me Christy Bent to count the people that went by and then when I picked out one with a goiter I’d say now let’s start counting over again. And the average, we picked out great big, large goiters and about 10 percent about every 10 we’d find one with a goiter that came down the hills. That was most impressive. When finally we, they brought Shilling in and he came in riding on one of these shoulder things that the men carried, riding like a king. And Shilling hadn’t eaten very much, so we went to eat and you won’t believe this but Shilling ate one dozen eggs, that’s how hungry he was. Mangleburg was killed and we waited for the other men and we took them back to uh, uh, Kunming and Mangleburg we had, had an air raid one night and they had no lights for them to light in, the fellows were up and so they turned all the automobile lights on and Mass uh, uh, can’t think of the other man’s name, it misses me right now but while he was sitting there in the car, he went to sleep and one of the pilots came in and was blinded by the lights and ran into this car that he was in and the propeller decapitated him. Uh, that was sad. FRANK BORING: Why don’t we do that again, but this time now you know that it’s Pete Wright and its Ken Merritt that’s in the car so… DOC RICH: After we gathered up Shilling and his three men we returned to our base and there was a night flight uh, Ken Merritt, there was no lights and we had to illuminate the field with automobile lights and uh, Ken Merritt was setting in the car, one of the cars, went to sleep and Pete Wright came in for the landing and was blinded by the light from the cars and it’s a real tragedy, his plane ran into the other car and decapitated Ken Merritt. It was really a sad, unfortunate thing, but that was part of the game. I oughta write that up, shouldn’t I? �FRANK BORING: After Pearl Harbor is what we’re talking about, after Christmas were you transferred around or were you stationed in Kunming? What happened after Pearl Harbor? DOC RICH: Right after Pearl Harbor we moved up to Kunming. FRANK BORING: You have your glasses on. DOC RICH: Now, where was I? FRANK BORING: Um, What did Chennault ask of you to do were you stationed in Kunming or were you sent around? DOC RICH: After Pearl Harbor, we’d all moved up to Kunming and uh, as I told you before, related an incidence of uh, uh, guided my poor, copilot. and many other incidents and I was sent down to the front to relieve Prescott and I was pushed around and also one time I had to go up to Chungking uh, to stay up there for a while to take care of a detached group there. Uh, it was quite interesting, but I didn’t stay up there too long and then they moved me on. Another thing that was interesting, going up the Kunming river, there was a man that gathered up all the feces from these, the boat and would ship the feces up the river and would sell it to the, to the uh, natives carried it on their shoulder pole to go out to fertilize their… fertilize their plants. And so he had a dignified name of being the shit king of Kunming. FRANK BORING: You had commented that they should have been able to live, they should have survived. Do you recall that? DOC RICH: I don’t recall that and if I did, uh, uh, Swartz and Faust were sent down to India and uh, the uh, somewhere the statement came out that FRANK BORING: He’s talking as if he’s talking to the camera. Ok go ahead. �DOC RICH: Somewhere along the line the, uh statement came out that I felt that there were men who should have survived. I do not recall making that statement however, it is possible. Uh, Uh, I do not think the treatment in India, although they are good Doctors and so on, good hospitals, having lived in India since then, uh, sometimes I question their judgements. There is an arrogance about the Indian doctors that disturbs me. They are well trained and their capable, but there is an arrogance that disturbs me. Other than that, right off, I don’t recall making a statement however it’s very possible that I did. FRANK BORING: Do you recall the incident in which Benny Foshee was injured? Bob Locke brought him in to you there was other Chinese doctors in the area treating Chinese and Benny Foshee was brought in. DOC RICH: Benny Foshee was not brought in to me as I recall uh, after the bombing because I went up and made a survey and Benny Foshee was laying in the compound and one, as I recall one arm totally blown off and one foot. I did not treat Benny Foshee, he didn’t live that long, he was killed instantly in a bombing raid. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rich_Doc_1991-05-30_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richards, Lewis J., M.D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Lewis "Doc Rich" Richards interview (video and transcript, 3 of 5), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Dr. Lewis Richards by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dr. Lewis J. Richards, or "Doc Rich" as he was known in the American Volunteer Group (AVG), served as the unit's Flight Surgeon. In this tape, Richards describes the conditions he was working under in the field and away from the hospital, in addition to his personal reaction to the news of Pearl Harbor. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b6e1617bc892acaec493af94c54f8b17.mp4 d9b7c9696a3890da150a824f5db8bc16 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8183172c1e00d6c51cbcbcff46d9669f.pdf f329aa7cd53dbe7846f382e4b1a75513 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Lewis J. Richards, M.D. (known as “Doc Rich”) Date of Interview: 05-30-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] DOC RICH: One thing when I was in Toungoo, with reference to the hospital. We had quite a few boys come down quite ill. They just were sick and you couldn’t find anything to help for it They broke out in a mild rash and one day one of the missionary nurses came to visit us and was in there and saw them and said “oh yes isn’t this a beautiful case of Dengue fever.” And I said “what?’ but I never let her know that I didn’t know what Dengue fever was. DOC RICH: Here comes another. This is a bad time, coming home from work. DOC RICH: Want me to go? One day, I was making rounds at the hospital and a missionary nurse came in to visit with us and while she was there she looked over and said “oh, isn’t this a beautiful case of Dengue fever” and I had been puzzled all along as to what was wrong with it and it was a beautiful case of Dengue fever and I tell you, if you have Dengue fever you feel like it’s called break bone fever and you feel like you’re going to die and you wish you could. That’s how sick you are and it’s a mosquito borne fever like malaria and it takes you quite some time to regain your strength. FRANK BORING: What did you do to treat it? �DOC RICH: We treated it primarily symptomatic. We did give them some quinine like you do for malaria, but I’m not quite sure that was the effective thing at the time. FRANK BORING: What other kinds of ailments if you will, or accident related cases did you deal with during the period of time you were at Toungoo? DOC RICH: Well a few of the, some of the cases that I dealt with there, we did have quite a few malaria cases and Dengue fever and then of course, when you’re living in an area like that where the water supply is not always the best, we had quite a bit of diarrhea. Other than that, it uh, they were quite healthy. FRANK BORING: What were your quarters like? Did you live with the men or did you have separate quarters? DOC RICH: No, No I lived, when I was, my quarters there, uh I shared the quarters with men just the same as anyone else. I remember one time we’d always go to a, before we got up to, to uh, Toungoo, Bob Prescott would come in and we’d be at the hotel and he’d come in a little bit on the dark side and he had a pair of British shoes and they squeaked and they squeaked and they squeaked and he was, it took him an hour to get his uh, mosquito net tucked in and I’d swear at him and he would swear right back at me. He was, that was the routine for Bob. FRANK BORING: What other incidents can you recall from that period of time, just personal observations or incidents that happened that you can think of? DOC RICH: Where are we now at Loiwing? (Still at Toungoo). At Toungoo? Let me think a minute. Uh, I was thinking of what was the best ones happened when we were up at Magwe. FRANK BORING: Magwe? �DOC RICH: While I was at Loiwing, uh, we was, Japanese were coming up the road and we were told to evacuate and everyone had moved out or left and Harry Fox and myself were the last ones there, left and we got a big trailer and loaded the trailer with all the uh, ammunition for the cannons and uh, he and I started across uh, going up to, uh, let me think where… FRANK BORING: Uh were you introduced to Chennault? Did you meet Chennault at this time? DOC RICH: Oh, yes, we all met Chennault. Yea sure. During this period of time we all met Chennault and we realized he, ah, was hard looking, tough, his face was tanned like an Indian. And he was part Indian. Uh, Churchill once said, that a man with a face like that “‘I’m glad he’s on my side.” I’ll never forget that. FRANK BORING: Well, you, oh sorry. DOC RICH: While we were at Toungoo, no, that’s wrong. Yea, Toungoo. While we were at Toungoo, some of the fellows were quite, they would get quite sick and so on and we didn’t have the hospital facilities so we sent them over to, cut??, To uh, to Seagraves. FRANK BORING: No start from the beginning. Yeah. DOC RICH: While we were at Toungoo, sometimes we had to send some of the men, we couldn’t handle them and we sent them over to see Dr. Seagraves who had a hospital in that area, a missionary hospital. I have mentioned in Seagraves book, Burma Surgeon. I unfortunately never met him, they tried to get Seagraves to go into the army, American armed forces did and they said they’d make him a colonel and he said “no, I’d just as soon be an old Kentucky Colonel. �FRANK BORING: What were your impressions of Chennault at this time as a leader? This is a man that was going to be leading this group. Possibly into war. What was your impression of the man? DOC RICH: Chennault, uh my, my impression of Chennault is that he was a tough man, a determined man. Uh, that in spite of all the training, I think the training that the pilots had it was initiated from themselves how to learn to handle a fast moving plane. It was not a dog fighting plane. It was a plane that moved fast, it regained their altitude and drop off. While at Loiwing, one time, we had an air raid and I’ve seen as high as four Japanese planes going down at once. The men were well trained but it was primarily that they uh, initiated how to use the plane. FRANK BORING: What were your impressions of Chennault's staff the other people that you associated with? Whether it was Harvey Greenlaw or any of these people, anybody that sticks out in your mind? DOC RICH: Chennault had a very good staff and you couldn’t help but like them. Harvey Greenlaw was quite a character and one uh, Saturday night, uh we were all doing a little drinking and Harvey Greenlaw got his Tuxedo, wore his tuxedo, but he was always pulling something like that . He was quite a character. While we were at Toungoo, one night we were raided and while we were being raided, uh Greg Boyington and all of us ran for the trenches. Greg was pretty well inebriated and he fell down and cut himself up so we took him back into the Loiwing uh, club house and I was proceeding to sew him up and I didn’t use any anesthesia on him because he’d had plenty of alcohol and Duke Hedman stood by there and we’d been playing the piano in ragtime and uh, when Greg would holler Duke would holler. “Go ahead, do, Doc, go ahead hurt him, hurt him, but many little incidents like that were very interesting. FRANK BORING: When did you first have to start utilizing your skills as a doctor other than just dealing Dengue fever and a few of these minor �things like that? Do you recall the first time that you had a serious uh, accident or a serious bit of Doctoring to do? DOC RICH: Why don’t we, tell about loading up the ammunition, or did I do that? FRANK BORING: Ok? DOC RICH: Did I tell about that? FRANK BORING: Sure. DOC RICH: Harry Fox and I were the last ones to leave Loiwing. We loaded one trailer up with ammunition for the cannons, got it all up. We went up to cross a river to go further up in China and uh, the uh, we had trouble getting across the river. When we got in to, uh, cut, was it Paoshan or what where the raid was? Yea, Paoshan. FRANK BORING: Paoshan is when, uh… DOC RICH: When we got in Paoshan, uh, I remember I was out on the fields and was informed that there been a terrible air raid and in a city it was almost im… difficult, impossible to get up there thru the traffic so it was slow by the time I got up there. Unfortunately, one of the Japs had dropped the bomb right in the middle of that truck that we had all the ammunition and it went around and looked around and several of the boys were hurt and Foshee was laying in the fields with one leg off and part of an arm and these were the kinds of things we ran, and then the Chinese could be seen lying all over the street and they, when this air raid was over they carried on just as if nothing happened. FRANK BORING: If we could continue on with the incident with Foshee we interviewed Bob Locke and Bob is the one that actually brought Benny Foshee into you to be treated. Do you recall, he described it as this confusion all around? There was you and a Chinese doctor �working on people and there was a little boy sitting over in the corner who had an arm blown off. Do you recall that? DOC RICH: I’ll wait a few minutes. What was the name, I’m trying to think of the name. Shields was it, no the two men… FRANK BORING: No, Swartz? DOC RICH: Shields and Fauth were hurt quite badly. Fauth had his, if I recall right, had his hand blown off. FRANK BORING: It’s Swartz, Swartz. DOC RICH: What did I… Fauth had his arm blown off. William Swartz didn’t have his… FRANK BORING: Swartz was the one that eventually they sent him off to India. DOC RICH: India? FRANK BORING: India, yeah. At least you’ve been quoted in books as saying that. You said that the British were responsible really that he should never have died. DOC RICH: Oh, I can’t remember that. I don’t know, whether it Swartz or Fauth. I’m trying to think, seems to me like Swartz lost his arm and I don’t… and what happened to Fauth I don’t know. He was hurt pretty bad. FRANK BORING: He was - He died too. DOC RICH: Oh, yes. FRANK BORING: I think Swartz was the one that was sent off to an Indian Hospital. DOC RICH: Both of them. �FRANK BORING: Both of them. DOC RICH: The uh, one of the bad accidents was after an air raid. In the day time and I mean late evening. Uh, it was Fauth and Swartz as I recall. Uh, Fauth lost his arm clear up to his shoulders and it seems to me that Swartz lost his hand and had his face pretty badly injured too. Uh, we didn’t have the facilities out in the field to take care of them and so the British loaded them and took them over to India. Another incident was Bob Brouk, a pilot and uh, see uh, shrapnel went off and he was filled with shrapnel and we moved all the big parts and he said what about the little parts? I says they won’t hurt. Many people live with a little piece of steel in them, so we, never, there was nothing more to be done, we did take good care of him and there was a few Chinese that were terribly hurt but the Chinese doctors came in and took care of them. FRANK BORING: What did you, give us some idea of the facility that you had to work with. What were the conditions that you were working under? If you could try and make it as graphic as possible for us to get a view of what you actually had to work with when somebody would get hurt like that. I mean, people think that your medical facility, even an army medical facility and they think you’ve got medicine and syringes and… DOC RICH: Our medical facilities were quite limited. In fact I had my medical bag and I had a Studebaker, small Studebaker and uh, I had it filled with medicine and most of my work was done uh, on the running board of the car. Uh, Charlie Bond came in after a raid and he was making a victory roll over the field and following him and he was a little careless then, following him was Jap plane and all I had was a revolver and I kept trying to shoot at that Bob, that Jap plane and I saw Charlie Bond bail out and his plane was afire and I got a Indian, I mean a Chinese coolie to take me up there and we located him and he was severely burned uh, we didn’t have much for anesthesia, we give him a shot of morphine and then we went �ahead and treated him with a for burns which was rather crude at that time but fortunately, he came out without any scaring whatsoever. DOC RICH: Now let me think a minute, uh I uh, failed to mention that I made the entire trip from Burma up the Burma Road, uh, into Loiwing. Ah, it was, talk about a snaky road, uh, the curves were so sharp that the uh, Chinese pilots, uh, uh, truck drivers would have to back up and take two or three times or many time to make the turn. As we went up, we would stop and rest of course and uh, stop and eat because the Chinese would set up little restaurants along the way and we would eat the food there. I came up with Bob Locke and I took all the precautions in the world to keep from getting malaria and if a mosquito is anywhere around he’ll find me. Bob Locke was absolutely, never slept under a net. Brought a tiger with him and he never got one mosquito bite. So there’s something about the odor of the body that will attract certain insects. Ants will attracted by some people’s perspiration, mosquitos by others and so on. But it was quite an interesting trip. Bob Locke and I was paralled [?] all the way up. Cut. Did Bob mention that? Another thing that happened once too. Steve Kustay? Uh, I think he was Armorer, I’m not sure. He liked his booze. And they called me one night. That Steve had turned the jeep over and was underneath the jeep. And I got up and went out there and I found it and the jeep was upside down on Steve Kustay. We turned the jeep over and Steve wasn’t hurt a bit and he says thanks you guys for coming helping me out. Cut. Ha, Ha, Ha, I never will forget. I could have killed him. He was drunker than a goat. FRANK BORING: One of the things we are trying to get is that spontaneity, laughing I could have killed him. Don’t cut. In the future let it go. That’s what we want to get. DOC RICH: Let me see what else. There was another one too. Ah, there’s another incident too, I forget uh, uh, just what city we were in, but we were out, camping out at the airport and uh, while we were �there. Cut. While we were there, let me see, we had a tent out in the desert and uh, I stripped off one day and was laying there on the cot getting sunshine, and course angelic Prescott got all the fellows together and they went out and gathered up all… FRANK BORING: Before you go through, give us a sense of where it is. DOC RICH: Somewhere in the desert of China, we were out in the uh, uh, desert and had a little tent set up and I decided to strip off my clothes and get a sunshine. Of course angelic Bob Prescott got the fellows together and set the coolies out to get some watermelons and they came back with these watermelons and I was asleep and they start to squeezing them all over me and then the flies you know and I got up and I’d go after one and the other guy would get back of me and hit me with a watermelon and I turned around to get him and they like to run me crazy but geez they thought that that was great sport. Truthfully I didn’t quite enjoy it at the time but I look at, back now with much laughter. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rich_Doc_1991-05-30_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richards, Lewis J., M.D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Lewis "Doc Rich" Richards interview (video and transcript, 2 of 5), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Dr. Lewis Richards by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dr. Lewis J. Richards, or "Doc Rich" as he was known in the American Volunteer Group (AVG), served as the unit's Flight Surgeon. In this tape, Richards describes working at the hospital in Toungoo, his experiences treating Dengue fever, and his first impressions of General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f0a1eb19330dba40e7210ace41145fa3.mp4 2313fdaf75a1864a129a1b9c68417ed8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/621e597c0b9adca9536fe85e9793ddee.pdf 13a7bb81728f6d27a489896f7f036914 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Lewis J. Richards, M.D. (known as “Doc Rich”) Date of Interview: 05-30-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: In as much detail as you want, give us an idea of your background, your schooling, your medical training and perhaps your first practices. DOC RICH: I had taken a lot of training in the ROTC and had a good record and was a captain in the ROTC and we planned on going to enlist in the army but was talked out of it by my mother. I had been in different things and finally I decided to go on and study medicine. And I started late in life. I graduated Creighton University in 1938 and went from there to a Charity hospital in New Orleans for a year’s training and to a Mobile city hospital for a year’s training and then the draft caught me, I enlisted in the army and I was at Ft. uh, Fayetteville, North Carolina. I had considerable training in the administrative and they could get doctors right and left so they put me on the administration and training of course and in charge of a 1750 bed hospital. Another doctor and myself worked extremely hard and we had a good reputation. And Colonel Choing [?] tried to get us a promotion which we were deserving of, we were only 2nd lieutenants but because we didn’t get up a correspondence, we couldn’t keep up with the work. However, we carried on at Ft. Bragg, No. Carolina. And while I was there doing my training, why Colonel Gentry was there and he was organizing a group to go to China. Uh, He inquired if I would be interested. I told him very much. Colonel Choing [?], when my year was up says, you going �to re-enlist? I says no, he said yes you are. He says I will draft you. I said no you won’t. He said I’ll show you something. I says I’ll tell you Colonel, I know you’re a sporting man. I’ll bet you a year’s salary against a year’s salary of mine and the loss would be just about the same but the difference in numerical value. He says, I’ll get you. I says, Ok you want to bet? He wouldn’t do it. So when my cut orders came through from Washington D.C. with Roosevelt, he caught me and he says “You dirty little so and so. You’d a taken my money” I shall never forget that. Then he cut us the orders and uh, we uh, had a short time to go home and visit and went out to SF. FRANK BORING: What did you tell your family you were going to be doing? DOC RICH: After I was released from Ft. Bragg, N. Carolina, I went home and visited my family and told them my plans and they were disappointed and worried but knowing how adventurous I was they were not surprised. I visit there for a while then I went in to SF and waited for the Jaegersfontein ship to come along. FRANK BORING: If you could fill in some more information about your family that would be good. DOC RICH: After I left Ft. Bragg, we went home to visit and we spent a few weeks at home visiting. I informed my family what I was going to do. They naturally were disappointed but they had no choice. There was a war coming on and I told them it was my choice and that’s what I was going to do. They accepted it because they knew how adventurous I was. And so we went down to SF and we waited for the Jaegersfontein to depart. DOC RICH: Did you want me to say anything why I came back to S.F. or no? FRANK BORING: What did you know about China at this particular point? �DOC RICH: My knowledge of China at this time was very limited. In fact, I would have to say I knew nothing. FRANK BORING: What did you know about Japan? DOC RICH: My knowledge also, too of Japan was limited. My knowledge of the Orient and [?] country was very limited. And this shows me how little the American people know about anything other than boundaries of the US. FRANK BORING: What was the interest in going to China, if you had no real knowledge of it? What was your motivation? DOC RICH: My motivation in going to China was this, I’d worked hard in Ft. Bragg, N. Carolina, I didn’t get a promotion, didn’t get what I thought I deserved and I was not arrogant about it and the Colonel was quite sympathetic about it and he said he didn’t blame me for leaving him. And it was because of the dissatisfaction and my unhappiness, I suppose I changed, I made up my mind to go to China. FRANK BORING: During this period of time, a lot of Americans went to the movies and at the movies they would see newsreels of the times. There were some newsreels of the bombing of China by the Japanese. Did you ever see any of those? If you did what was your reaction? DOC RICH: I never saw any of those until after the war. Of the bombing of China. I didn’t answer that very well. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in SF, did you meet with the other AVG people or by the CAMCO representative? DOC RICH: We were met by the CAMCO representatives at the hotel and interviewed. They gave us our passports and I think I went over as a, I don’t know, a poet or a gardener, I don’t remember which. �FRANK BORING: What did the CAMCO representative tell you to expect? What were your duties going to be and what did he say you were to be doing in China? DOC RICH: I was informed of my duties in China, we’d be a rug and roof on the rose. I responded that that had no bearing whatsoever. I was instrumental in getting Sam Prevo to go because I asked if he wanted to go too. And he was released from Ft. Bragg and we went over on the same ship. FRANK BORING: Were you asked to maintain any level of secrecy about your trip and your duties in China by CAMCO? DOC RICH: I don’t recall ever, ever, having been informed of any secrecy and so on. They told us it would be a dangerous trip across the ocean but we had no trouble. We went back and forth across the equator. All the way over dodging the ships, which were mostly ammunition ships and finally we were arrived at Hawaii. Overnight at Hawaii. No, at Hawaii. Then we went down to Singapore and we had to unload all of our medical supplies and everything and I worked all that day and most of the night. And of course the Jaegersfontein had refused to go any farther. They also got a report that the Jaegersfontein had to go on. And so the next day, I had to load a whole outfit over again and I got to see very little of Singapore. FRANK BORING: Of the people you associated with during your trip, were there any people who stuck out in your mind, any people you became friends with on the boat trip over? DOC RICH: On the boat trip over I became very friendly with a lot of people and especially Harry Fox. Who became the chief mechanic and a very capable man. I admire him Uh, We were quite close. I had my questions about Moon, uh, Moose Moss course he’s cocky and everything else. But we got acquainted and got along fine. The nurses and Sam Prevo and myself decided one night to go up high �on deck. It was a moonlight night, very romantic, we played the radio uh, phonograph that we had and Red Petach, I mean, uh, Foster uh, and I were dancing FRANK BORING: Start off with Red Foster and I were dancing DOC RICH: Red Foster and I were dancing and every time the ship listed why we felt we might go over board and all of us a little hilarity like that heard a harsh voice from the captain of the ship. “I want that noise stopped.” And somebody made some remark and he came out and made it very emphatic and we got out right away. FRANK BORING: What was the routine like on the boat? Were there any incidents that you can recall that were imprinted on your mind that you can recall? DOC RICH: All the men had to get acquainted with one another and sometimes there might have been a little differential between the pilots and the ground crew, but they all finally got acquainted. As we pulled into uh, Rangoon, I can’t think of one of these, uh, Leroy, what his name was but he was a radio man and he’s uh, cut. What do you call these ships that come up to Fiji? DOC RICH: One of the junks came out, a junk was coming out to sell us stuff and one these, of the wise guys got smart and he picked up, something was very heavy and he reached out and dropped it right thru his junk and the junk ship sunk. They were just full of it. They were just an ornery as could be, but a good group. DOC RICH: After leaving Singapore we went to Rangoon and the bay was not deep enough so we had to unload everything else onto rafts and carry it in and one of the Sampans came out to sell us merchandise and one of the fellows, he was a radio man, picked up something real heavy, he leaned over and dropped it thru the sampan and there was a big hole in it and he lost everything. They was just a bunch of ornery boys that’s all. �FRANK BORING: What was the procedure of the arrival in Rangoon of the medical officer? What did you have to do? Did you just go on the train with the whole group to Toungoo? What was your experience when you finally arrived in Rangoon? DOC RICH: When we finally arrived in Rangoon, it was quite different. It was a dirty city. We were appalled by the poverty and the wild, uh, animals was, was, wandering about the city. The hotel was quite nice, very different. We stayed there for a week or two and then we were loaded on a lush train. The beds were nothing more than flat boards. We went up to Toungoo and it was a journey. We went up there, there were these pagodas with cattle all around them. It was during the war shipping months it was very interesting. FRANK BORING: We interviewed Charlie Mott and he says that the arrival at Toungoo, there was an incident where you were hanging your head out the window of the train making quite a noise and all. Do you recall that incident at all? DOC RICH: No. I do not. I do not recall the incident of uh, arriving at Toungoo where I put my head out of the train. But Charlie Mott said I was carrying on a bit, which occasionally I did. FRANK BORING: What was the train trip like up to Toungoo? DOC RICH: It was very nice. Just like riding on a cattle car. The bunks were nothing but a bed, a board on a hinge and you laid on them. And when we got up to Toungoo, I recall the remark that Moose Moss ever said, we lived in these thatched huts and he said “it’s the first time I ever slept in a fruit basket.” Home. FRANK BORING: What was your first impression upon arriving in Toungoo and the area you were to be living in? Describe to us your quarters and your medical facilities? �DOC RICH: Our medical facilities were quite good when we arrived in uh, Toungoo. We set up a hospital, uh, set up a dentist and had sick call just like the army. Uh, uh, our facilities were good because we brought enough supplies along and because we had all been army trained. FRANK BORING: Who were the members of your staff and if you could, give us an idea of your first impressions of these people? DOC RICH: When we first got there, we had two nurses, females and we had four male nurses army trained. They were all quite competent. A good group. The uh, nurses, uh lady nurses were oversaw the corpsman and we had a good rapport. Excellent. FRANK BORING: What was your routine like? What was your daily duties if you will during this period of the first couple of weeks in Toungoo? DOC RICH: My duties were to set on the line because they were training these men to fly P-40's. It was a fast plane, not what they’re used to. The plane came in at a terrific speed. We lost quite a few planes in the training. However - Harry Fox took very good [?] and got them back in service rather rapidly. I enjoyed Toungoo. When I go to a city I don’t go to the main part of the city, I go out to the boondocks and see how the people lived and I really enjoyed Toungoo. FRANK BORING: Can you give us an idea of your experiences when you did go out into the boondocks? Any stories about that? DOC RICH: One of these great big birds called condors. Condors is the name. I used to wander out into the fields and the thing that ah, surprised me were several large birds that remind me of a Condor. Also, too the most beautiful things I can remember about Rangoon, is moon over Burma. The golden moon, there’s nothing like it. And it’s nothing to, in the rainy season, to sit and see the sun setting on one side with three or four rainbows and turning with three or four �rainbows, and turning back in back of you and seeing the reflection of those rainbows too. Perfect reduplication. No, I like Burma. FRANK BORING: During the time of training, there were a number of accidents. Planes being destroyed especially on landing were a difficulty. What were some of the incidents you recall? Were you ever called to actually treat anybody for injuries? What was your actual role during this period of time of training? DOC RICH: In this period of training, the men were learning how to negotiate and handle a high speed plane. Many planes were lost in training. However, fortunately if they had an accident, they were completely wiped out. We lost three good men. Uh, other than that, there was nothing very minor, except Dengue fever. I’d never seen a case of Dengue fever and we had these men in the ah, hospital and I kept trying to think what it was and one of the native nurses, a Caucasian came in and said “oh, she says, isn’t that a beautiful case of Dengue fever?” I said, “Oh, yes it’s the perfect picture.” I didn’t know Dengue fever from typhoid fever. But, we had many experiences like that. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rich_Doc_1991-05-30_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richards, Lewis J., M.D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-30 Title A name given to the resource Lewis "Doc Rich" Richards interview (video and transcript, 1 of 5), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Dr. Lewis Richards by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Dr. Lewis J. Richards, or "Doc Rich" as he was known in the American Volunteer Group (AVG), served as the unit's Flight Surgeon. In this tape, Richards discusses his background in schooling and medical training before working with the AVG, in addition to his motivation in going to China and his journey overseas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/40dc65282e69cd5eaef469ff09a0f5c0.mp4 5bb2ab05b17cd2d81e31177c0968f4e9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/09610d83837e9c8c89ac399c021d532e.pdf 6ac44bcbec826e69e8688e24bfb8e38b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Edward “Ed” F. Rector Date of interview: May 16, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 11] ED RECTOR: In reviewing the one year fighting existence of the American Volunteer Group, the Flying Tigers, one might say that its greatest impact was on the Chinese. Recall that they were beaten, they had no capability themselves in terms of area, it was totally gone and in that one short year, we restored the confidence of the Chinese, they were standing tall and so appreciative and rest assured that every success we had spread throughout China. The Chinese knew about it. We couldn't go anywhere without being just lauded for what we had accomplished. For the U.S. and the rest of the world, really for again a fleeting year, we were the only ones of the allies, the only outfit that was having any success with a total of 294 airplanes destroyed in six months, was quite a feat. Those were the effects in terms of the Chinese, the U.S. and the world, but from a personal standpoint, it was fruitful for all of us. It was for me I know because having gone through that one year crucible, short though it was, I emerged confident and I was looking for - I had made enough of a record that I knew this would stand me in good stead, looking toward the end of the war, which I knew we would win, a regular commission in the Army Air Corps, by this time - the Army Air Force. And in addition to that crucible, that one year, my competence was raised fourfold and I knew that there wasn't a challenge thereafter that I couldn't face with confidence and with knowledge that I'd succeed. Certainly I would not fear it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Rector_Ed_1991-05-16_v11 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rector, Edward F. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Ed Rector interview (video and transcript, 11 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Ed Rector by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ed Rector served as Vice Squadron Leader of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." He joined the AVG after discharging his commission from the US Navy, and left the AVG when it was disbanded in 1942. In this tape, Rector reflects on the existence of the Flying Tigers and the impact the group had on the Chinese people in addition to his own life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng