371 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/28fce4e50a1d0db5b36957fa9a294dfa.mp4 6a98a745b0bcff62e32681fa132f1adf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8963228ec1f97fb238df085e3559c5ca.pdf 98b38c126d9591be423605c3402136b7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert T. Smith Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: Just start with the sighting of the Japanese. R.T. SMITH: Well when we saw them in the distance and of course they were some miles away when we first saw them. It was just a bunch of specks together, but it obviously was a big formation of Japanese airplanes heading our way and when we finally got up to them it turned out there were two formations, 27 twin engine bombers in each formation and behind and above each bomber formation, maybe a dozen or so of single engine Jap fighters. So each of our flights went after one of the bomber formations and started pecking away at them and that was the first aerial gunnery that many of us had had any experience at all with and I gotta tell you, that was onthe-job training to the utmost because most of us had never fired at an aerial target until we actually shooting at the Japanese. So it took a little while to figure out exactly where you wanted to do this and most of us figured out pretty early in the game that the best way to shoot at a Japanese airplane was to not have any deflection at all, be able to come up behind him and shoot with no deflection so you didn't have to try to come in from the side and lead him and all. So after about the third pass I decided that was what I wanted to do and I picked up on a bomber that was off to one side a little bit from the main formation, pulled up behind him and opened up at about maybe 200 yards and bored in directly astern and saw flashes all over the place and the next thing I know the damn thing blew up in front of me and I'm pulling up to try to get up above �him and the bomber just plain blew up and a piece of his - one of his engine cylinder heads I guess it was, went up through my left wing and I was blown up like a leaf in a windstorm and the only thing I knew for sure was that I was still in one piece, I still had control of my airplane although it had been blown up in the explosion pretty well, but everything seemed to be working and I remember the greatest feeling of glee that I guess I've ever felt at knowing that I had blown this guy out of the sky. That was a complete feeling of accomplishment as far as I was concerned. So then I came back in and started making passes at the other guys and about that time, the fighters started coming down and making life miserable and we had to dive away from them to get away, come back and try to make another pass at a bomber and then another fighter would come down. Well this went on for another 20 or 30 minutes and meanwhile the other guys were going through pretty much the same thing I was going through. They were shooting at Japanese planes and getting shot at times and unfortunately, a couple of them got shot down and were killed. Neal Martin and… (break) R.T. SMITH: A couple of our guys who had dived into these bomber formations weren't quite as fortunate as I was and the rest of our guys. Neal Martin was shot down by the bombers as he came down attacking and I think very shortly after that, Hank Gilbert was shot down - I believe he was jumped by 2 or 3 Jap fighters who shot him down and they were both shot down and killed. Meanwhile my old buddy, Paul Green who had come out of Randolph Field with me and decided to join up on this thing, he was shot down by Jap fighters but he managed to bail out. He was shot out of control and got out of his airplane, bailed out and then a couple of Jap fighters followed him down and started strafing him while he was in his parachute floating down not too far away from our airfield there in Rangoon. They put a few holes in his parachute but fortunately they didn't hit him and he landed in a rice paddy and eventually got back to our base. But we had lost 3 planes, two pilots killed and I �guess when we finally got to tallying the whole thing up, we figured we had shot down 8 or 10 Japanese planes, but this isn't quite what we had in mind of course. It was two days later came the Christmas day raid, which was even bigger than the one on the 23rd. On Christmas day we only had 13 P-40's and pilots that we could get up and we sailed off into another big armada of Japanese bombers and fighters coming toward us and this time they had even more Japanese planes and we had 13 P-40's. But this time the guys that had gone back up on Christmas day, were guys that had been bloodied a little bit, if you will, in the 23rd fight. We knew a little more what to expect. We had had a little experience. We'd gotten over some of the buck fever, which is inevitable I guess in any kind of a thing like that, and so we sailed into them pretty good on the 25th. I think before the day was over we'd knocked down somewhere between 20 and 25 Japanese fighters and bombers with 13 P-40's and that was probably the best day that my squadron ever had against the Japanese - and that was Christmas day of 1941. (break) R.T. SMITH: Well, in my own case, I was in McMillan's flight and we started peeling off against this first bomber formation, much as we had done on the 23rd. It wasn't too long before I had gotten behind another twin engine Sally bomber and it caught fire on the right hand wing - the right hand engine caught fire and it just sort of peeled off and was smoking like crazy and that's the last I saw of that. Pretty soon I had to turn away and I saw there was a fighter coming at me and I knew it was one of their fighters because it had this big radial engine out there. Well anyway, we squared away at each other maybe 1000 yards apart, got head-on and I opened up at him with what I guess to be about 5 or 600 yards and I could see his guns blinking and firing at me also and I don't recall either of us taking any evasive action, but we just kept firing until we passed and somehow I passed just directly above this guy and I doubt if our prop tips cleared by more than about a foot. I whipped into a turn to the left as hard as I could to see if I was going to be �able to get around and get another shot at this guy and when I turned and finally could see him, he was blazing like a torch and heading down toward the Gulf of Martaban, which is where we were by this time out over the Gulf water, and he just went down like a torch. I was quite relieved to see that because I had expected he'd outturn me and come back and be taking another shot at me. I went out on over the Gulf of Martaban which was heading from Rangoon toward Moulmein, the old Moulmein Pagoda and this was this big shark-infested water area that we had to fly over and I ran across a couple more of our guys and a few more Japanese bombers, now heading for home and 3 or 4 of us were nipping at their heels and we managed to shoot down another 2 or 3 of them before they got back over toward the mainland of Thailand and eventually we ran out of ammunition and were about out of fuel and had to head for home. We finally got back and landed and we discovered that two of our guys were missing, two airplanes and two guys were missing. We thought they'd probably been shot down and killed like in the first day's fighting but it turned out that both of them had been - their airplanes had been damaged, their engines had been shot up and they'd had to make crash landings in the rice paddies and before the night was over they both showed up and we had a big party. That one was the one where we came out and we lost two airplanes but no pilots and we'd shot down quite a big bunch of Japanese. FRANK BORING: What was the reaction of the pilots when they arrived back to the airfield and the ground crew after these big battles - what was the mood like? The 23rd when you first came back after your first engagement, what was the reaction like when you got back on the ground? R.T. SMITH: Well when I pulled in my crew chief jumped up on the wing and I had the canopy back and he jumped on the wing and said "How'd it go R.T.?" and I said "It went pretty well. I got a couple of the bastards." and he said "Great" and I said - by this time most of the other guys had landed and I said "Is anybody missing?" and Jess, �his name was Jess Crookshanks, a great crew chief of mine from Tennessee, and Jess said "Yeah, there's three of our guys are missing." I said "Oh lord, who are they, Jess?" and he said "Well Gilbert and Martin and P.J. Green" and I thought oh Lord, Green of course having been my closest buddy from old times at Randolph Field and we were roommates in the BOQ there and we'd gone over together. The last thing I said to his mom in Amarillo, Texas or Clarendon, Texas as we were leaving to go to San Francisco to get on the boat, she said "You take good care of Paul now R.T." and I said "You bet I will". So I mean these thoughts were going through my mind. As of course it turned out that Paul had been able to bail out and he got down okay. Martin and Gilbert were killed. But the crew chiefs and our ground crew people all were terribly excited and wanting to know - and of course they couldn't tell what the hell happened. (break) FRANK BORING: The crew chief's reactions… R.T. SMITH: Well later after the airplanes had been serviced and reloaded with ammunition and refueled and all that kind of stuff and of course everybody got together at the alert tents and of course in the evening when we knew that we weren't going to be called upon to do anymore flying, why there was quite a feeling of camaraderie among all of us, the crew chiefs, the pilots, everybody else, figuring that we'd done a reasonably good job, but not as good as we had hoped to do. Of course we were all upset about the loss of the pilots that we'd lost. There was definitely a feeling of - wait till next time, we'll get the bastards. So I think all of our guys were gung ho including the pilots and next shot we'll do better and we did. FRANK BORING After the first two battles, what was the daily routine like. I mean now that you'd had these two major battles in December and January what else was going on? �R.T. SMITH: Well we had to stand on alert. We had an alert flight of 8 airplanes that were ready to go on 30 minutes’ notice and a stand-by flight of another 4 an hour notice. We had an alert tent at the edge of the runway near where the airplanes were parked and we had a direct telephone line to the British headquarters where they had the radar set, so if there was any kind of an alert warning, why we would get in our alert tent and we'd go out, get in our airplanes, take off and go patrolling and looking for trouble. Well this happened quite often. We had a lot of false alarms and this happened quite often, but actually my squadrons, the only two actual fights that we got into were on the 23rd and the 25th and then it was decided Chennault up in China now decided that he would relieve the Third Squadron in Rangoon by sending the Second Squadron from Kunming. They hadn't been in anything, send them down, relieve us, let us bring our wounded airplanes home and our people and try to get everything squared away up in China so that the Second Squadron took over. That's what happened. FRANK BORING: If you would describe the reaction of the crew chiefs and pilots after the first encounter on the 23rd, saying you're gonna go out and get those bastards and then you had the second on the 25th you got a chance to actually go out and do it. What was our reaction and the reaction of the other people when you came back from that second battle? R.T. SMITH: Well I don't know - it was pretty much I suppose the same way that it was the first time. Individually we didn't know what the other guys had all done at this point. We knew what we had done as an individual and from viewing the overall thing, we figured we’d done pretty well. But it wasn't until after we'd gotten home and started counting up what this guy had done and what that guy had done and all that, that we were quite aware of how well we had done. I was very pleased with myself that particular day and I guess everybody else was. We didn't know what the other guys had done. �FRANK BORING: I guess it's when you arrived home and you started tallying it up. What we're looking for I guess is just - I don't think you sat around and well "how many did you get?" � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_T_1991-04-23_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert T. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Robert T. Smith interview (video and transcript, 5 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert T. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. R. T. Smith joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941, after resiging his commission as a U.S. Army Air Corps basic flight instructor. He served in the AVG as Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron, "Hell's Angels." In the AVG he was credited with shooting down 8 Japanese planes and was awarded the Nine Star Medal and Order of Cloud Banner by the Chinese government. He returned to the US in 1942 and was drafted into the US Army, but was quickly re-commissioned as a US Air Corps Second Lieutenant. Over the course of the war, Smith returned to the Pacific Theater and flew 55 combat missions over Burma. He was awarded the Air Medal, Distinguisghed Flying Cross, and Silver Star. In this tape, Smith discusses his first two major battles and the reactions of the ground crew, in addition to their daily routines in the days that followed. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b90d3b27356f51e99f483a690550c77.mp4 ec70c40265861649f2f8ac74dcb254e6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d31b24be93f4062943713e2841b82689.pdf 2cdb79a43ea2e12d01e42901c49180de PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert T. Smith Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: Just beyond just the training part of this to the camera… R.T. SMITH: Well in the training that we went through there, of course the biggest problem I guess that we had was the fact that our group, our pilots were composed of ex-Navy, ex-Marine Corps, ex-Air Corps people, many of whom had not been flying fighters or pursuit planes in the Air Corps. We had a lot of guys like myself - I was an instructor. We had guys from the Navy that had been flying PBY's, flying boats, guys from the Navy that had been flying dive bombers, no fighters, we had guys from the Air Corps who had been ferrying airplanes, bombers, to Canada from the United States, we had all kinds of people and only of the whole bunch, maybe 25% who could legitimately be called fighter pilots or pursuit pilots, who had had any kind of training in that kind of an airplane and gunnery training and all that. So we had this training problem, people trying to learn how to fly this P-40, which was not the easiest airplane in the world to fly anyway and the Navy guys had a lot of trouble. They were used to landing like they were gonna come in on a carrier deck. They would land, stall out in a three point position maybe five feet above the deck and flop down and the hook would catch them. Well this didn't work of course with the P-40. When the P-40 landed, hell it touched down at about 90 to 100 miles an hour and you didn't dare land that thing high and then stall in because if you did you were gonna smash the gear and ground loop and raise hell. This happened of course a great �deal with some of the guys that were flying and not only the Navy guys, hell we had Air Corps guys that were doing the same thing. As a result, we lost a lot of airplanes in training accidents. Fortunately we only lost 2 or 3 pilots lives in those conditions, but we did lose 2 or 3 that I recall. One guy - two of our P-40's up on a combat training exercise where they were gonna being doing individual combat with each other and they had a head-on collision and one guy managed to bail out and he came down all right and the other guy didn't get out so he was killed and on another occasion Pete Atkinson, in particular. (break) R.T. SMITH: Another accident that we had at that time was a guy named Pete Atkinson who was an engineering officer for the First Squadron, I believe it was, he may have been group engineering office, well anyway, he went up to test fly one of our… (break) FRANK BORING: If we could start up with Pete Atkinson also his relationship to you. R.T. SMITH: Well I had no particular relationship with him except that I knew him. He was a guy that I liked and he was in a different squadron, but he was up testing an airplane one day and was doing a dive and something went wrong. Apparently the propeller governor gave way and ran away and the engine I guess blew up and he was coming straight down and wasn't able t pull out and he was killed. All of us were upset about that of course and it turned out that part of his elevator - one half of his elevator apparently blew off while he was coming down in this high speed dive and later it turned out that another one seemed to have that same problem and so all of a sudden the airplanes were suspect and they started having to check all of them and make sure that the elevator hinges and all that were working right. Pete was lost on that. We had another guy, one of the guys that came over on the boat that I was on named Max �Hammer, he was up flying a P-40 and wound up in a thunderstorm not too far away from our base there and apparently got disoriented in this violent thunderstorm and spun in and he was killed. So we had some accidents that were fatal, we had a lot of them that weren't fatal, we lost a lot of airplanes. At one time I think Chennault was about fit to be tied, figuring my God, if we keep going like this another six weeks, we won't have any airplanes left to fight with. Well it wasn't quite that bad of course, but these things did happen and eventually we managed to get over it and we wound up with enough pilots that were able to fly the airplanes and knew what they were doing that we were able to go into combat when the time came. FRANK BORING: Once training period was over with in Toungoo, where was the next step? Where did you go next? R.T. SMITH: Well that wasn't until after Pearl Harbor was attacked. It was decided very shortly after that that Chennault wanted to send two squadrons - we only had three squadrons of course - and he wanted to send two of the squadrons up to Kunming, which was where we had been planning to go anyway about that time and the British asked for a squadron to come down and help defend Rangoon, being the shipping port for Burma and Chennault and Chiang Kaishek and the people in China agreed to allow one squadron to go to Rangoon. It happened that it was the Third Squadron, which is the one that I was in that was sent to Rangoon and a few days later the other two squadrons moved up to Kunming. At that point the only thing left at Toungoo was maybe half a dozen airplanes that needed some work done on them to get them flyable and a skeleton crew of people, mechanics and ground crew people to do that. FRANK BORING: Where did you come up with - or who came up with the name for the Third Squadron? R.T. SMITH: The Hell's Angels? I don't really know. That's always been a mystery to me. I don't recall that we ever had a meeting of the �squadron to decide what we would call ourselves. All of a sudden, as far as I knew, somebody had decided we would be the Hell's Angels Squadron and one of our crew chiefs was quite a talented artist and he had drawn this outline of a red nude figure, with a halo and that was gonna be our squadron insignia and then later this same guy drew individual figures of this angel in different poses as individual insignias for different guys. I had one - he drew one for me that was kind of seated - like sitting on a cloud or something and he did different individual poses for different pilots. But anyway I don't know exactly how that came about, but it was decided that we would be the Hell's Angels Squadron. FRANK BORING: How about the shark’s teeth - what can you tell us about that? R.T. SMITH: Well the shark's teeth - a couple of our guys at one point there in Toungoo had gone to a party someplace at a British guy's house and there was a magazine called the "Illustrated Indian Weekly" or something that came out of Calcutta, India and it had a picture - I guess it was a color picture - of a P-40 in the African desert that was an RAF P-40 and it was in the Libyan campaign and it had a shark's mouth painted on it. A couple of our guys happened to be there at this party that day and they saw that and said hey that looks pretty good, so they got back to the field and took a piece of chalk and marked out a shark's mouth on one of the P-40's and painted it up and had Chennault come by and take a look at it and said what do you think - and I guess the guys decided they wanted that for their own squadron and Chennault at that point said "that looks pretty good. Let's do the whole group that way." So that's what happened. The strange part is that there was never again pattern for this, no stencil or anything like that was ever made. So when it was decided that each guy could do his own airplane, each guy drew it and so no two were exactly alike. Well let me say something about that though, the sharks thing. There's been a lot written, I've seen in books about we decided that we would make these things Tiger Sharks because the Japanese were deathly afraid of sharks, Tiger Sharks particularly and so we would make the �shark mouth to scare the hell out of them - well hell, we never even thought of that and I'm sure that not many Japanese airplanes in the sky that we came after ever saw the shark's mouth, they saw a lot of machine gun shooting at them, but not too much of the shark's mouth. But that was one of the stories that was written about how we were gonna intimidate them by putting on that shark's mouth. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to hearing that Pearl Harbor had been bombed? R.T. SMITH: I thought it was awful. FRANK BORING: I guess what I'm looking for is, you had stopped off in Honolulu and I know that some of the guys that were in the AVG actually knew people that were there and it was also a major turning point in terms of the action. At that point there was a lot of - you were getting kind of antsy about getting into battle. R.T. SMITH: I don't think, after we had arrived in Burma and were in Toungoo for a while and we knew that the Japanese had already moved some troops and air people into Indo-China and we had heard that they were moving into Thailand, so we were not exactly - I think the thing that we were surprised at was that the attack came at Pearl Harbor, not that the Japanese had attacked and started things going, it was the fact that they had attacked Pearl Harbor. I don't think any of us had expected that. But the fact that we were all of a sudden at war with Japan, didn't surprise us at all and we were quite prepared that this was gonna happen before long. (break) FRANK BORING: So you said you were prepared… R.T. SMITH: Oh yeah, we figured that the Japanese were gonna start something some place over in the Far East and that we would be right in the middle of it, the minute it happened. But as I say, the thing that �surprised us was that they attacked Pearl Harbor. If they had attacked the Philippines, Hong Kong, Singapore, we would have expected that much more readily than we did the idea of Pearl Harbor being attacked. But we weren't terribly surprised when something happened like that and we knew we were in the middle of things when it did happen. FRANK BORING: When did you first have contact - when did you first actually see combat with the Japanese? If you could describe that day and what happened? R.T. SMITH: The squadron I was in was sent to Rangoon to help protect that being the port where all the military supplies, lend-lease or whatever, was gonna come in to eventually get to China. So the Third Squadron was sent down there. The other two squadrons a few days later were sent up to China and when my squadron got down to Rangoon, which was about the 12th of December, we stood at alert. The British meanwhile had a squadron of Brewster Buffaloes down there and they had a radar set up and we were supposed to work closely with them. We stood at alert, we went up on a few false alarms where they thought there was something coming in and nothing happened. This went on for some days and it wasn't until the 23rd of December, which was just a couple of weeks after Pearl Harbor, that the radar reported a big bunch of Japanese planes coming from Thailand toward Rangoon. So on that particular occasion my squadron, the Third, got 14 P-40's up. I think the Brewster's got about the same number of Brewster Buffaloes up. I don't think they did much damage later but they were up at least. There were two flights of our P-40's - seven in each flight - and we were patrolling southeast of Rangoon and all of a sudden off in the distance we saw these huge swarms of Japanese bombers coming toward us followed by a bunch of - a couple more swarms of Japanese fighters and that was our first sight of the Japanese and we headed in their direction and they were heading in our direction and we intercepted them, started attacking the bomber formation. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_T_1991-04-23_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert T. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Robert T. Smith interview (video and transcript, 4 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert T. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. R. T. Smith joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941, after resiging his commission as a U.S. Army Air Corps basic flight instructor. He served in the AVG as Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron, "Hell's Angels." In the AVG he was credited with shooting down 8 Japanese planes and was awarded the Nine Star Medal and Order of Cloud Banner by the Chinese government. He returned to the US in 1942 and was drafted into the US Army, but was quickly re-commissioned as a US Air Corps Second Lieutenant. Over the course of the war, Smith returned to the Pacific Theater and flew 55 combat missions over Burma. He was awarded the Air Medal, Distinguisghed Flying Cross, and Silver Star. In this tape, Smith describes the training period in Toungoo, his experience belonging to the Third Squadron, and their first combat with the Japanese pilots near Rangoon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ded1137ee0926a9f95bbe6b83588b0e8.mp4 6b423758516cb4a296535dbd9a825607 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/09002de3637c42baff56c2e8e18a274f.pdf a8170e84f8421fd26fb90748f9258ce8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert T. Smith Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: Around this time the Raffles Hotel and all that and from the trip on the boat, you started to get to know some of these other guys. Can you give us some impressions about the AVGers that you were meeting at that time, just getting to know? R.T. SMITH: Well I got very well acquainted with all of them of course, by the time we got to Rangoon after 7 weeks on the same boat. You're in pretty close quarters. My impressions - number one they were all I thought - real great guys. I didn't have any problem with anybody and we all got along very well. All of them I think were similar to my own situation, they were all looking for adventure and that was the main motivation for going over on this thing. We came from various different backgrounds of course. I think if you had to put an average on the whole group, you would say we were middle American, young men, anywhere from 22 to 25 years of age, I guess our average age was maybe 23 or 24 at that time and all of us came from middle class backgrounds, practically all of us as far as I know. Obviously we were all white - this was before the days of integration of course, but a real nice cross section, I think, of young America. I was happy to be one of them and we got along pretty well and we did get to know each other very well. Some guys of course stood out, there were several in our group that would later become stand-outs. One being Tex Hill. Tex was an ex-Navy pilot and Green and I first met him and a couple of his buddies, Ed Rector and Bert Christman, we met the first day we �arrived in San Francisco and we got acquainted with them right off the bat and then there were of course many others that we got to know as the trip went on. But just as a blanket statement I can say they were just a great bunch of guys. FRANK BORING: I guess what I'm trying to get to is that you were already aware that you were going to be fighting in a war. You knew that you were going to be going ahead of - that you weren't going there as American military or anything like that, you were going to be putting your life on the line, did you have any doubts or did you have any kinds of feelings about the guys that you were going over to fight with? Did you feel like you guys were going to be able to defend yourselves, be able to work together? I guess I'm getting more towards the war aspect of it. R.T. SMITH: Well, I think to answer your question, the fact that the other guys that were going were pretty much a mirror image of myself, they all had confidence in their own ability, their flying qualities and all, they had confidence in the idea that we were going over for a just cause to help the Chinese who were being beaten to hell by the Japanese at this point, I think most of us were sympathetic to the Chinese cause certainly, and antagonistic maybe toward the Japanese. The Japanese of course had been beating the hell out of the Chinese for about 3 or 4 years up to this point and for no reason that any of us knew. So I think all of us had confidence in the other guys. We all went over pretty much for the same reasons and we had confidence in our own ability and that's the way it worked out. FRANK BORING: All right you've arrived in Rangoon. What was the next step? Where did you go from Rangoon? R.T. SMITH: Well from Rangoon a few hours after we arrived in Rangoon they put us on a train to take us up to northern Burma, or at least halfway up to northern Burma. I guess it was about 170 miles up to a little town called Toungoo, Burma. The RAF had an airfield �there that they were not using and previously had been agreed by the American Volunteer Group people and the British that the British would allow us to use that as a gathering point to get our act together, get our airplanes together, our people, do some training and stuff, before moving on up to southwest China. So that's where we wound up. Now the train load that I went up on got into Toungoo and we were about the third bunch that got there. There had been a bunch of about 30 ground crew people who had arrived maybe six or eight weeks before that, who had started the process of assembling the airplanes in Rangoon and these were technicians, almost entirely I guess. Then the second boatload that got there about a month before we did had a whole bunch of pilots and ground crew people and they went up to Toungoo. They had established their quarters and kind of got things organized up there and the third boat that I was on got up there, and then of course, in the next few weeks there were two or three other boats that came on with other people, both pilots and ground crew people, and they kept arriving until about the end of November. It wasn't until about the end of November, after we had gotten into Toungoo, that we had our whole group together and had I guess about all of our airplanes assembled and brought up to Toungoo and of course this amounted to - supposedly we were going to have 100 pilots and 100 P-40's, and about 200 ground crew people. So by the end of November we pretty much had that. We had lost, in the meantime, of course I got in there around the middle of September, and the other guys some of them came in later - but we had lost a number of airplanes in accidents. We had 3 or 4 fatalities, quite a number of airplanes that had been damaged beyond repair in accidents there at the training base in Toungoo and we were not really what you would call a real fit and ready combat outfit at that point at the end of November. Of course was still the same thing, when Pearl Harbor was attacked, we were pretty well organized at that point and we had done most of the training we had wanted to do and had figured to move up to China very shortly, early in December. Of course when Pearl Harbor was attacked on the 7th in Hawaii time, this happened to be the 8th of December where we were on �account of the International Date Line thing, but when we finally heard the word over the radio that the United States was now at war and Japan had attacked Pearl Harbor, now we're in the middle of Burma and the Japanese, we had heard, had already occupied part of Thailand and maybe had some air force people over there and some airplanes and we're sitting about 60 miles away from the border of Thailand with no warning, so we immediately went on alert and went on from there. FRANK BORING: Now the living conditions in Toungoo … you ever got in a P-40? You can talk about that, your arrival there, conditions there. R.T. SMITH: Well when our train pulled in from Rangoon to Toungoo, we were met by some of the guys that already arrived and as a matter of fact they had a little 3 piece Burmese brass band to meet us that was playing "The Stars and Stripes Forever," if you could recognize it. Anyway we were met by these guys and they spent an hour or two in the station restaurant bar before we got there so they were in pretty good shape and of course we were too because we'd brought a few things along with us on the train ride. But they got us out to our field and took over and it was night and we got out and they told us where we were supposed to go and went to these bamboo bashes that were our quarters. It wasn't of course until the next day that we really realized that we were in some pretty primitive living conditions. The climate there was not too good. It was still the rainy season when we got there and it was about due to end, but we were having thunder storms 2 or 3 times a day and a lot of rain and we couldn't do much flying. The living conditions, the food was bad - this was provided by Burmese contractors who were supposed to supply the mess facilities. The quarters we were in were barracks type bungalows with thatched roofs and no screens, lots of mosquitos and lots of other kinds of insects. It was kind of miserable. But the thing we had gone over of course was to fly airplanes and they did have some P-40's there and after 3 or 4 days of getting acclimatized a little bit, we were gonna check out in the P-40. All of us who had come over, the pilots, were assigned to �various of the three squadrons. I think 5 or 6 of us that were in the outfit that I was on, on the old Bloemfontein boat coming over, were assigned to the Third Squadron and after 3 or 4 days we were gonna check out in the P-40. I had seen a P-40 at Hickam Field on our way over. We stopped at Honolulu for a couple of days on the way over in the boat and I had gone out to Hickam Field to see an old friend of mine and he pointed out some P-40's and that was the first time I had seen one. I was given a cockpit check, had read up a little bit in the book, the flight manual, about how to fly this thing and then I checked out in the P-40 and I was like a kid with a new toy. This was something else, I had a lot of power out there and the airplane was a real dream to fly as far as I was concerned and I loved it from the moment I got in it. The other guys checked out also the same way. The next 3 or 4 weeks we got in more time flying the airplane. It was difficult because we were running into bad weather. There was a lot of thunderstorms and rain - it was the end of the rainy season but it seemed to hang on longer than usual. In the meantime, there wasn't much to do in and around Toungoo. I guess they had an old movie about once a week or so that they played at the mess hall. Which was usually something about 1935 vintage, black and white and the projector didn't work too well and the sound wasn't any good and this was our recreation. We were about 7 or 8 miles from the city of Toungoo and the city of Toungoo - maybe 50,000 population and of that number a very few that were of British extraction or whatever. Most of them were of course Burmese and there wasn't a hell of a lot to do in Toungoo even if you went in there. So we were pretty bored and it was not a very pleasant situation physically because of the climate and the bugs and every other damn thing. But most of us decided well we'll put up with it. That's what we came over for, we weren't expecting summer camp. Some of the guys decided this was not what they wanted and they quit and went home - some of the pilots, some of the ground crew people. We of course thought well okay, good riddance. If they can't take it let them go. I guess that's the way Chennault thought of it. Chennault himself of course was a tough old guy. He pretty much has been pictured looked like a road map - �his face wrinkled and weather beaten and all, but he had a good sense of humor, he was a good athlete, he loved to play games with us like - hell he was always involved in our softball games or volley ball or whatever that we did for recreation. He was tough but fair and he sure knew his business when it came to what the Japs were up to and what their airplanes could do. We had ground school all the time during this period in Toungoo while we were training. He held ground school courses for us and tried to teach us what not to do and what to do as far as fighting the Japanese airplanes went. We were all quite taken with the old man, he was a great guy. FRANK BORING: You were a flight instructor yourself. How did you rate Chennault as a flight instructor? R.T. SMITH: Well he wasn't a flight instructor as far as we were concerned. Hell, he never got in an airplane with us and told us how to do something. But what he did was tell us his experience as what he knew about what the Japanese planes could do as opposed to what we could do against them with the P-40. That was the big thing. He knew the things that would work to our advantage with the P-40 and the deficiencies that the Japanese planes had that we could try to take advantage of. So in that respect he was our instructor but he never got in an airplane with us and told us how to fly it. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of the Japanese as pilots before he started educating you in that? R.T. SMITH: Well I was not one that - they thought the Japanese pilots weren't good. I remember that every now and then you'd read something somebody had the idea that the Japanese all wore coke bottle lenses for glasses and none of them could see worth a damn and they couldn't fly anything and that their airplanes were all copies of things that other people had built and they weren't any good. I never quite subscribed to all of that kind of stuff. I expected to run �into some pretty damn good pilots and I did and all of us did. So I wasn't surprised when we ran up against some good pilots. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_T_1991-04-23_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert T. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Robert T. Smith interview (video and transcript, 3 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert T. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. R. T. Smith joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941, after resiging his commission as a U.S. Army Air Corps basic flight instructor. He served in the AVG as Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron, "Hell's Angels." In the AVG he was credited with shooting down 8 Japanese planes and was awarded the Nine Star Medal and Order of Cloud Banner by the Chinese government. He returned to the US in 1942 and was drafted into the US Army, but was quickly re-commissioned as a US Air Corps Second Lieutenant. Over the course of the war, Smith returned to the Pacific Theater and flew 55 combat missions over Burma. He was awarded the Air Medal, Distinguisghed Flying Cross, and Silver Star. In this tape, Smith discusses his first impressions of his fellow Flying Tigers and how they embarked on this journey together, in addition to their arrival in Toungoo and their reaction to the news of Pearl Harbor. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d80a22ed1ce8054d08ae0aa94c979075.mp4 7822de2add6097801229d9f77de05ec9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1125edc68fbc6fa44cc9b67ce0ed73c.pdf 4da0c613ba5be0d3af9cd05cccd58466 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert T. Smith Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] R.T. SMITH: So when we signed up to go, we didn't think of ourselves as mercenaries, but it just happens that that is the definition of mercenary and later that's what happens is that we find out that we were. (break) FRANK BORING: Let's just comment again about the mercenary without the smoke around you this time. R.T. SMITH: In later years there's been some talk about whether or not we were mercenaries. Some people resent - some of our own guys - resent the fact that we have been referred to as mercenaries in magazine articles or books or whatever, but I don't quite understand that because the dictionary definition of a mercenary is someone who goes to fight for a foreign government and being paid by a foreign government - that's the definition of a mercenary. Well that certainly fit our description. We were part of the Chinese Air Force. We went over there, we flew under their colors, we were supposedly part of the Chinese Air Force and were being paid by the Chinese Air Force or being paid by China. The fact that China got the money to pay us from the United States, was completely immaterial, as far as I'm concerned, but to draw a fine line as to whether or not we were mercenaries, doesn't bother me to think that I was, any more than the Eagle Squadron guys that went over to fly for Britain before the United States got in the war, they were �mercenaries, they were flying under the British colors, they were paid by the British and they were flying for a cause that they believed in. They were mercenaries. Does that make them any worse? I don't know - not to me. FRANK BORING: Let's now go to - you've already met with Skip Adair, you've already signed up, could you describe how you got out of the Air Corps - what kind of process? R.T. SMITH: Well, after the meeting with Adair, the final one where he signed us up and we were all set now. Within a few days we got TWX's from Washington, D.C. to our headquarters there at Randolph Field that were releasing us from active duty as of a certain date and that meant that we were able to settle up our accounts around the field, turn in our parachutes and all that kind of stuff, and as of a certain date, we were released from active duty. It happened that fast. This of course was because the AVG people in Washington, with Roosevelt's blessing of course and the State Department, had greased the skids and boy, this didn't take long. So the next thing most of us knew, or at least I knew, I was released from active duty. FRANK BORING: So first thing - you got out quite quickly then what was the next step? R.T. SMITH: Yeah, well I had orders relieving me from active duty in the Air Corps Reserve and I was free to leave Randolph Field. The same happened with Green, my roommate and my buddy there, who went at the same time. We were sent money from the organization there in Washington, the American Volunteer Group, to - actually it was called the Central Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation, that was the front company that handled all the business affairs, but we were sent enough money to buy airline tickets to San Francisco and were supposed to report late in July - this was about the 22nd or 23rd of July - in order to be there in plenty of time to get on a boat and go with a few other people heading for the Far East, and �that's what we did. We spent 3 or 4 days in San Francisco and the other guys came in. As I recall we had about 15 pilots and maybe another dozen ground crew people, who assembled at a given hotel there in San Francisco and on a given date we were put aboard a Java Pacific Lines boat, which was kind of a combination passenger and cargo boat, and we headed out through the Golden Gate and on our way to the Far East. That's what happened. We spent the next 7 weeks, practically, before we finally got to Rangoon, Burma. That's kind of a long story, but we went to Honolulu. Spent a day and a half or so there and then out across the Pacific, we thought we were heading for Manila, then turned out we wound up in Australia, Brisbane, Australia for about a day and a half and finally got to Manila, in the Philippines - 3 or 4 days - and then we thought we were heading for Singapore and instead of that we wound up in Batavia, Java - 3 or 4 days more. Finally to Singapore. We thought from Singapore we'd be going on up to Rangoon, Burma, but it turned out we were in Singapore for 10 days before they could get us on another boat to get us to Rangoon. And we finally got on a little Coastwise boat to get us up to Rangoon, but all together the whole trip took about 7 weeks. By the time we got to Rangoon, we had had plenty of shipboard life and were awfully happy to set foot on land again. FRANK BORING: Could you describe any of the high points or low points of the trip over on the boat? R.T. SMITH: Well I'm not sure there were many either high or low points. It just got to be awfully boring. We had a lot of trouble trying to occupy our time. Of course there were a lot of crap games going on and poker games and this and that. Every now and then we'd get out on deck and do a little exercising. They had a - of course this was a Dutch owned boat, Java Pacific Lines was owned by the Netherlands and the Dutch being the great gourmets that they are, our meals were fantastic and they fed us about 4 times a day and we had very good food. They had a bar of course that was open practically the whole time and we helped ourselves to that. The �problem I guess was mostly just boredom and when we did finally hit a landfall and spent couple of days or three days or whatever on these different occasions when we got to some port, it was like being released from jail. We were all very happy to take advantage of it. But it wasn't until we finally got to Rangoon and knew that our whole trip was over, that we really felt good. FRANK BORING: There's a couple of things about being on the ship itself that have been mentioned and you talked about in your book before, one was you guys went there under the passports of different professions. Could you talk a little bit about that? R.T. SMITH: The thing there of course was the United States was not at war with anybody and I guess the State Department was a little bit leery about letting the Japanese know that a bunch of American pilots and ground crew people and all were heading for the Far East to oppose them, so they made it pretty strict that our passports read anything from - I think I was supposed to be a Plantation Manager - of what I don't know - but we had guys who were acrobats and circus performers and salesmen - all different kinds of occupations that were listed on our passports, which none of us were. But that was just simply a ploy I guess, by the State Department to try to cover up the idea that we were going over to get into trouble with the Japanese. FRANK BORING: Can you comment on some of the fellow passengers? R.T. SMITH: It's funny, we had - our group was about 27 or 28 people and there probably another 75 people on this particular boat and I think about probably 20 or 30 of them were missionaries and there were several low level diplomatic people from various countries that were heading for various places throughout the Far East. I guess we had more of a problem with the missionaries than anything else. In the lounge, where they had a piano, which also accommodated the bar, the missionaries were always congregating around the piano and wanting to sing hymns and the rest of us �were over around the bar, singing ribald songs that the missionaries didn't appreciate. But we managed to get along with them all right. They had a bunch of very nice people and we did have some interesting things where some of the people that were on the way over there who had lived there before, gave us little lectures about - in the lounge - about customs of the different countries that we might see and the people and that kind of thing. It was kind of interesting. I don't think the missionaries appreciated our sense of humor too well. FRANK BORING: Could you say that again? That was great. R.T. SMITH: Well the missionaries, of course, they were gathered around the piano playing hymns and singing hymns. Meanwhile over in the other corner of the lounge, we had our record player playing Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey records and stuff. FRANK BORING: Could you describe for us the Raffles Hotel in Singapore? R.T. SMITH: When we got to Singapore it turned out that the boat we'd been on all this time that got us to Singapore, was not going to be able to take us on to Rangoon. So we had to be put up in Singapore for a few days until transportation could be arranged on a coastal steamer to take us on up to Rangoon. Most of wound up going to the old famous old Raffles Hotel, which I guess was built around the turn of the century. It was an old, big, spacious place, lots of atmosphere, the old British atmosphere of course. After getting off this boat with its cramped quarters, and we had these big rooms with great big ceiling fans and just big rooms and we were very happy to be put up there and it turned out that we were there for about 10 days. It also turned out that that was sort of the social gathering point of Singapore. The Raffles Hotel was the place for the British. And of course they were very stodgy as we were concerned and very formal and when this bunch of guys came in from the States, we kind of took over a little bit of the Raffles Hotel's scene and I don't think the British appreciated us too much. �We were a little too loud and noisy and full of everything and I don't think they really appreciated it too much, but we managed to get along somehow. FRANK BORING: You were quoted as saying that - about the charm - it had a certain amount of charm? You said, "It has all the charm of a funeral home." R.T. SMITH: Well that was sort of the way the Raffles Hotel was. It was so quiet. The British, of course, in their typical way of understatement. (break) FRANK BORING: You were talking about how it was quiet and that the British… R.T. SMITH: Yeah, well I guess at one time I did make a statement that the Raffles Hotel, the lounge area down there, when we first got there, had all the charm of a funeral home because it was so quiet. The British of course in their subdued and understated way didn't believe in raising their voice or anything and all of a sudden these American guys come in, about 25 of us and we sort of took over the bar and the lounge. We didn't necessarily try to disrupt their way of living, but we were a little bit different than what they were used to and I don't think they appreciated that too much, but eventually I think they understood that we were about to go to war and it wasn't any problem. FRANK BORING: If you could describe your impressions of arrival… you had already you mentioned that you had read books of Kipling and you talked to people on the boat about what you were going to be expecting when you arrived. What were your first impressions upon arriving in Rangoon? R.T. SMITH: Well first I guess was - it was terribly hot, humid and of course I had not seen that many people of that color and of that race and all, �this was a completely new experience. It was all fascinating and we were all quite enthralled when we landed in Rangoon and got to looking around. We wandered around the city for a little while after we first got there and before we had to get on a train to go up north. We were able to take in some of the sights. It was a very pretty city actually. Typically old British colonial city that had been going for a long, long time. But we were quite intrigued with it, not disappointed at all from what we had heard and read about the Far East. This kind of lived up to what we'd expected. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_T_1991-04-23_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert T. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Robert T. Smith interview (video and transcript, 2 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert T. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. R. T. Smith joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941, after resiging his commission as a U.S. Army Air Corps basic flight instructor. He served in the AVG as Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron, "Hell's Angels." In the AVG he was credited with shooting down 8 Japanese planes and was awarded the Nine Star Medal and Order of Cloud Banner by the Chinese government. He returned to the US in 1942 and was drafted into the US Army, but was quickly re-commissioned as a US Air Corps Second Lieutenant. Over the course of the war, Smith returned to the Pacific Theater and flew 55 combat missions over Burma. He was awarded the Air Medal, Distinguisghed Flying Cross, and Silver Star. In this tape, Smith describes his journey overseas to join the AVG from San Francisco to Rangoon, in addition to his first impressions upon arrival. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1eb3bdfb0360cab9d398b33ea1d5ce7c.mp4 9d27582402c54d0599b3e4c1c8450c00 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/66d8a46302cf09188e1b9f556fb4c91c.pdf db9f39ba6e1994d19f2aa75d6e61fad1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert T. Smith Date of Interview: 04-23-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: Well to begin with, could you tell us what you were doing before you even heard about the AVG? R.T. SMITH I had gone through the Army Air Corps flying school as a Flying Cadet in 1939 and in 1940 and I was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant at Kelly Field in 1940 after completing the Air Corps flying school thing. I was sent back to Randolph Field in June 1940 to a basic Flight Instructor at Randolph Field, which wasn't exactly what I had in mind. I wanted to get into a combat outfit or something that was flying airplanes that might eventually be in combat. But I was sent back to be a basic Flight Instructor and, as it turned out, I spent one year there and instructed quite a number of students that came through and I guess it was about the middle of June 1941, that I saw a copy of Time Magazine and this particular issue had a small article about the fact that the Japanese had closed up all of the seaports for China and the only way China could get any supplies to defend themselves anymore against the Japanese was through a thing called the Burma Road and that was from the port in Rangoon in Burma which was way down around the corner and by rail and then a very tortuous trek through the mountains, about 600 miles from northern Burma into southwestern China to Kunming, China. This was called the Burma Road and this was all truck convoys. It was the only way that China could get any supplies to help defend themselves anymore. That was when I first heard about the idea that somebody �might be going over to help defend the Chinese. This article in Time Magazine said that a certain number, a few people who were commissioned officers in the Air Corps or the Navy and experienced pilots were being allowed to resign their commissions to go over as volunteers to help the Chinese and defend the Burma Road. I thought, boy that sounds pretty good to me. I didn't want to be an instructor for the rest of my life, I wanted to get into some activity and this sounded like a pretty good thing. So at that point I started taking some action to find out who you contacted, how you go about finding out how you get into this outfit and at that time it didn't even have a name, it wasn't called the American Volunteer Group at that time, which it was later known as. But that's when I first found out about this thing going on. FRANK BORING: What was your first actual contact with the people that were eventually AVG - the CAMCO? R.T. SMITH: When I had read this article in Time Magazine, I started asking around the officer's club and different places around Randolph Field there in Texas and nobody had ever heard anything about this at all. Until finally I ran across a guy over at Kelly Field and got a hold of him and he said he didn't know too much about it but he knew the name of a guy in Washington, D.C. that could be contacted and maybe he would fill me in on the thing. So he gave me this guy's name and a phone number in Washington and I called this number, talked to somebody in an office there and apparently it was the office that was going to recruit the people and I explained the situation that I was ready to go. I wanted to find more. I was told well stand by, you'll be contacted in a few days and it turned out that that happened. I was told - I guess I got a telegram from Washington saying that somebody, one of the recruiters from this outfit was gonna be down in San Antonio a few days later and to check in with this guy on the occasion when - he mentioned the date that he'd be at a certain hotel in San Antonio. So that's what happened. (break) �FRANK BORING: We'll start from you're gonna be meeting somebody in San Antonio in a hotel. R.T. SMITH: Well I got a notice from somebody in Washington, D.C. that said that they would have a member of their recruiting organization in San Antonio on a certain date and to check in with them at a hotel and we would talk about it. It happens that my buddy from Randolph Field, who was a classmate of mine and also another instructor, he and I had both been talking about this thing and he was as interested as I was. This was Paul J. Green, and one of my dearest friends, so when we finally got around to it, we went into the hotel and got a hold of this guy. His name was Skip Adair and Skip had been over in China for 3 or 4 years I guess at that point and had been involved in training Chinese Air Force pilots and had been working with Chennault, who was gonna be the head man of this whole outfit. We went in and talked to Adair and at that point Adair said "Well gee, you guys you've had good training and I'm sure you're great pilots and all, but how much time have you had in pursuit planes?" and we said none and he said "You've no time at all in P-40's for instance and it's what the people are gonna be flying" and we said no. As a matter of fact, at that point we'd never even seen a P-40. "Have you had any aerial gunnery experience or any kind of gunnery experience?" no, and all we had was about 1000 hours apiece of flying time as instructors sitting in the back seat of a BT9 airplane, a basic flight airplane at Randolph Field. And he said "Well I'm sorry, I don't think that's gonna qualify you guys very well and I don't think I can sign you up for this thing." So we went away from that little meeting at the hotel there in San Antonio that evening very discouraged. Went back to Randolph and the next day Green and I both decided well let's have another go at this guy and we went by the officer's club and picked up a quart of I. W. Harper 100 proof bottled in bond bourbon, took it back into see Skip Adair again the following evening, got in there about 5:30 in the afternoon, which we figured we'd catch him after he got back to the hotel from his chores out at - he was �interviewing other people out at Kelly Field and different places and we caught him all right and we used the better part of that quart of I. W. Harper - which incidentally cost $2.00 at the officer's club in those days - so by the time we'd spent a couple of hours talking with him again, we finally managed to convince him that we had to be part of that American Volunteer Group. So he got out the papers, we signed them, we didn't know what we were signing, but we signed up and the whole proposition was that he offered that the Central Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation offered us a contract to go over and to fly - it didn't say anything about combat or about the Japanese or anything like that - just to fly airplanes for that company in Burma and China and they would pay us $600.00 a month salary, air expense over - our fare over and our fare back after a year of contract and that was it. So we signed up and were told at that point by Skip Adair that probably within a week or ten days we would have orders relieving us from active duty from our jobs there at Randolph Field as Instructors - releasing us to go to San Francisco and join up with a group that would be going by boat over to the Far East. And that's how the whole thing happened. FRANK BORING: When you actually heard about the money being paid, was that the first time you actually heard you were gonna get paid that amount of money? R.T. SMITH: Yes. FRANK BORING: Could you talk about your reaction to that? Because you wanted to get in… R.T. SMITH: When they told me that the pay was gonna be $600.00 a month, I thought well that seems reasonable. As a matter of fact, as a Second Lieutenant at that point, I believe after a year's service, I was making something like $250.00 a month in the Air Corps. But of course we had a few perks that went along with that made up for quite a bit. But I thought that sounded reasonable as far as that �went, as far as pay went, particularly since we knew that we were gonna be sticking our necks out and we were gonna get shot at and so it seemed a reasonable trade-off and the money wasn't why - I don't think more than one guy out of 20 went because of the fact that he was gonna get paid a little more than he'd been paid in the service. I think almost all of us went because strictly we were - in the first place we were crazy - but we were anxious for adventure. I think most of us had read books by Conrad and Kipling and those people who wrote about the mysterious Far East, Burma, China and different places and I think a lot of us were intrigued with the idea that this would be a grand adventure. We wanted to - I think most of us wanted to get out of the rut that we may have been in, in the service branch that we were in. For instance, Green and myself having been Instructors all this time and figuring that there was gonna be a war coming on very shortly and we didn't want to be stuck in the training command as Instructors or whatever, when the stuff hit the fan. We wanted to get into something that allowed us a little more adventure and flexibility and of course all of us that went in wanted to fly fighters. In those days the Air Corps still called them pursuit planes, but the Navy called them fighters. But that's what most of us wanted to do and the pay seemed fine so we said let's go. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_T_1991-04-23_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert T. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-23 Title A name given to the resource Robert T. Smith interview (video and transcript, 1 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert T. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. R. T. Smith joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941, after resiging his commission as a U.S. Army Air Corps basic flight instructor. He served in the AVG as Flight Leader for the 3rd Squadron, "Hell's Angels." In the AVG he was credited with shooting down 8 Japanese planes and was awarded the Nine Star Medal and Order of Cloud Banner by the Chinese government. He returned to the US in 1942 and was drafted into the US Army, but was quickly re-commissioned as a US Air Corps Second Lieutenant. Over the course of the war, Smith returned to the Pacific Theater and flew 55 combat missions over Burma. He was awarded the Air Medal, Distinguisghed Flying Cross, and Silver Star. In this tape, Smith discusses his background in the Army Air Corps before joining the American Volunteer Group in search of adventure and the honorable mission to protect the Chinese. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/269b00832e50de2d96e64a7a2d2cd707.mp4 2dec03e49c930b420f7d3b5ba1fba6a4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bcbd242bb9007be75b75201b286728ee.pdf 397a2229bbdfb0632fd23583699b6687 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert M. Smith Date of Interview: 04-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FRANK BORING: We're gonna cover now just some of your personal evaluations. Not so much what you heard or what other people said, but your own personal evaluations. The AVG from the very beginning, in fact I think you may have reported in your own diary, you talked about this rich and rowdy group of guys. Misunderstood and what not - I was just wondering what your impressions of the AVG was? R.M. SMITH: My impression of the members of the American Volunteer Group is mixed. One thing, particularly the enlisted men, they were released from bondage. When you're in the service, you are kept down. But over there out of the country, they did about and said about what they pleased. Now I don't mean to imply they didn't do a good job or do their job. Some of them were absolutely incredible in what they did, but they didn't hesitate to say what they think. If people's customs were not theirs, they would express themselves as to their opinion. Many of them were heavy drinkers. Some didn't drink at all. Some even got religion over there. But they were in some ways, some of them were rather wild. FRANK BORING: Looking back now from the perspective of your life now, how do you evaluate the AVG from this perspective, from where you are now? The men of the AVG, what they accomplished? R.M. SMITH: Looking back now at the AVG, I feel real proud that I was lucky to be a member. �(break) FRANK BORING: You had described the AVG from the perspective of that period. I guess what we're looking now is from your perspective here, now at this time, the men of the AVG and what they accomplished? R.M. SMITH: I think, looking back that being a member of the American Volunteer Group was one of the high points of my life. I'll never forget it. I made some very good friends there that I have seen year after year at the reunions. Some of which of course aren't with us anymore. But I'll never forget the guys - and we had gals too - we had four women in the AVG. They've been good friends and I've always been very proud that I was able to be a member. FRANK BORING: You also had an opportunity to do a lot more in your life after the AVG and you've also done some research and studied China. You've taken it upon yourself to build a library that has a great deal to do with China. Looking back now, where do you think AVG fits in terms of history? In terms of China's history? In terms of America's history? R.M. SMITH: I think the AVG will be remembered because we were the one bright spot at the time when we were losing Singapore, the Philippines, Rangoon. We were the one organization - American organization - that was having victory and why it was important I think it was an omen of the things that were to come. The Japanese learned that Americans could fight and would fight. They had been told our pilots were afraid. So it was the beginning of the great victory that, we, the allied powers won in World War II. FRANK BORING: How about for China. Where do you think we fit - you've had a chance to study China - where do you think AVG fit in terms of the history of China? R.M. SMITH: The relationship that we had with the Chinese was amazingly good. I always liked the Chinese and the Chinese liked us. I �remember there was an INS newspaper correspondent, his name Lee, that came through my station at Chengyi and he commented on that. He couldn't get over the fact that the relationship with the Americans and the Chinese was so good. Part of the reason I think was, in some ways Chinese and Americans look at things the same way. They both are very proud people. They both consider themselves worthy and they recognize that in each other. There are some races that seem to have an inferiority complex, or at least that's the way it comes across to us who perhaps don't know them well, but I think we, the Americans respected each other and it was the beginning of a good friendship. FRANK BORING: Before we were talking about the Salween Gorge and you guys were preparing to leave, could you tell us about what you thought the AVG did there? R.M. SMITH: It was in May 1942, when the Japanese were advancing up the Burma Road and we were very much afraid that they were going to capture Kunming and be completely cut off. We were making plans to leave, evacuate if we could, but we had no place to go. We couldn't carry enough gas to get us to Siberia. But our pilots helped the Chinese. The Chinese made a stand on the Salween River and our pilots went in - very dangerously. Tex Hill was part of the group - went in and bombed and while this may not have been the only thing that stopped them, this was one of the factors, with Chinese troops dug in on the other side, this was one of the factors that stopped the Japanese advance into China and if that had happened, that would have been a disastrous event and China might have gotten out of the war completely, releasing Japanese troops and energies for other ill-advised adventures. FRANK BORING: If you could make a couple of comments on - you had mentioned earlier about a dinner that Madame Chiang Kai-shek hosted and she always considered you her darling boys. But I understand this night it was not exactly - she was not exactly happy with you. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit? �R.M. SMITH: In Kunming in January 1942, the Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek and Madame Chiang came down to Kunming and hosted a very nice banquet for us. The Generalissimo gave scarves to all members with his chop on it and spoke. Madame Chiang translated and then she gave a little speech and she kind of chewed us out. Our reputation as far as morals was not too good and she told us all about that. I think she called us "her angels without wings." FRANK BORING: One other comment if you will. When you were on the radio, did you hear about the battles? I mean you got reports back on how the battles went. Did you also hear about some of the pilots or ground crew that got killed? R.M. SMITH: Yes. Of course a radio station is a good place to get information, but we didn't get a lot of it over the air because that would have to be in the clear and we would sometimes hear reports. We did have telephone lines that we could use, but not heavily like we do today. But we also had quite a bit of road communications from Kunming up either going to Chung King or out to the far eastern stations, so we would get reports and rumors, sometimes second or third hand of various activity. But of course sometimes it would be a little garbled, but we had kind of a grapevine I think. FRANK BORING: Was there any of the guys in particular that either got hurt or you were concerned about, even one that perhaps had died, that had a particular effect on you? Do you recall in terms of your being isolated, knowing that battles were going on - or in Toungoo for that matter when the training part of it, were there any guys in particular that you were friends with - that had an effect on you? R.M. SMITH: It was always very difficult when we lost guys, either in accidents or in combat. This was something that affected all of us very deeply. It was particularly sad when someone that had been very popular died. I remember when Army Armstrong was killed, he had gone to the same college that I had and some of the early �accident deaths were from very popular pilots that all the ground crew felt deeply at their loss. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned before about Doolittle's raid and how Chennault sort of got excluded from knowing about the raid and perhaps could have done something about it. Can you comment on that for us? R.M. SMITH: I remember talking to General Doolittle when he attended one of our reunions at Ojai many years after the AVG, and I asked him why they didn't have some homing beacons - or they hadn't let us know, because we could have guided the Doolittle Raiders into some of those eastern fields. That's what those fields had been designed for. Well Doolittle told me that there were two things: 1) that they were afraid to let Chennault know because he was so close to the Chinese and they were afraid that it would get out and it would destroy the mission if any word got to the Japanese, and 2) they had a plane, a C-47 filled with communication equipment and a homing beacon, it was flying out to China to be installed on one of the airfields, and this plane crashed on the road out there, so that's why all the planes were lost and many of the crews, the Doolittle Raiders. FRANK BORING: You told us a couple of stories about Olga Greenlaw, and we'll let you choose whichever one it was that you'd like to have on camera, but you had mentioned a couple of humorous ones. R.M. SMITH: I remember when we were down at Toungoo, we were down at the railroad station one night having dinner, there was a bunch of the ground crew and over at another table, there was Olga Greenlaw and her husband, Pappy Greenlaw and four or five of our pilots around a big round table. All of a sudden, Olga got up and all the pilots followed her except one and he sat there talking to Pappy Greenlaw, who was drinking rather heavily. About half an hour later, one of the pilots came in, tapped the one talking to Greenlaw, on the shoulder, they traded places, Greenlaw didn’t notice, and �the other one went out. Scene Two: the next morning at headquarters AVG at the airport, the clerk told me this. Olga walks in, throws her purse on the desk and says "Well I sure made a bitch of myself last night." FRANK BORING: The story about plugging the radio…? R.M. SMITH: When I got up to Kunming, I was in a nice room on the first floor. Olga and Pappy Greenlaw had an apartment, these two rooms, on the second floor. Word was passed down that Olga Greenlaw wanted a radioman because her radio didn't work, her radio receiver didn't work. Well, I'm not really a good radio mechanic but I was the only one there so I went up. It was something simple like it needed to be plugged in or a wire on the antenna or something - I've forgotten - I wasn't there long - 10 or 15 minutes. When I came down all the guys started Ha Ha and laughing at me. "Oh what happened?" I didn't understand what they were talking about. FRANK BORING: A lot of you guys wrote diaries. Why did you decide to publish yours? R.M. SMITH: I decided to publish my diary because I figured it was a footnote to history and it would tell a different point of view than what had been put out by many people on the Flying Tigers before. Also in most books published on all wars, very rarely do you find a book published, written by an enlisted man, they're always by officers or generals. There was one other book by a Navy Seaman that was published that was very good about World War II. So fortunately I found a publisher that - Tab Books, Inc. - that was happy to publish it. But now it's out of print. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) R.M. SMITH: Well to me the AVG was probably one of the most interesting military units in history. Rowdy, hard drinking, incredibly naive in �some ways, but it ended up the greatest killer fighter unit in history. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert M. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-25 Title A name given to the resource Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 6 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith describes his impression of the members of the American Volunteer Group and his sense of pride in being a member, in addition to their place in Chinese history. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a6b7da8f1f51bae67cdf5d5b689c553a.mp4 fb19a0014649738806910e9b061acd22 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7a34f9d992afef54c4842703425caf9d.pdf 822cc1553ff8b1e4a37eda2d8b2ac767 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert M. Smith Date of Interview: 04-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] R.M. SMITH: The radio station at Chengyi was the most efficient in the Chinese net. The cooperation, the reports of enemy activity came in through that Chinese net control station much faster than at Kunming or Yunnanyi, so I generally got all reports of enemy activity before anyone else. I remember one time I called Kunming and reported that there was Japanese bombers over Yunnanyi. Well Morgan Vaux was the radio operator down there, so he called me direct and said "Hey Smitty what are you talking about? I haven't had any reports." I said "Well I don't know, that's what I've got." He said "Wait a minute" and a couple of minutes later he came back and says "They're overhead, they're dropping bombs. I'm going to the slit trench." That station at Yunnanyi was in a temple and it was a hole and Morgan Vaux used to - was bored, nothing to do and he didn't have the nice set-up that I had. So he would write poetry in his very bad poetry, mostly having to do with the way the Chinese fertilized the fields. And he would write them on this - I saw them later - he would write them on the white walls of the temple. Then in the morning when he was pretty bored, he'd call up all stations from PB-1, "this is the poem of the day" and he would read them. There was a lot of gossip going on, on the frequency. Remember radiomen are gabby people, whether they're on CW or voice, and there was Sasser, old Sasser was a radioman down at Munksa [?], now Munksa [?] is on the old railroad line down in Hanoi, about 100 - 150 miles south of Kunming. Sasser was shacking up with a Chinese woman. He would come on the air and go into explicit �detail about his sex life - how he got his gun, she got her gun there was a bunk there in my radio shack - and I'd lie on that and I'd roar at the incredible stories that he was telling. And I realized that Chennault was on that frequency, the pilots were on that frequency. But when I went back to China the second time I decided I ought to report in and I came back with AACS Communications outfit and I thought I ought to report in to Chennault, courtesy, although I was not under him. So I went over and his Secretary was Doreen Lomberg, whom I had met before and so she got me right in to see Chennault and I saluted and said "Happy to be back" or whatever and he looked at me and he says "Do you remember Sasser?" I said "Yes, Sir" "I had to get rid of Sasser" he says. FRANK BORING: Do you remember any of the poetry? R.M. SMITH: No. But later when I was at Yunnanyi for a few days I read this poetry on the wall and it was pretty bad. FRANK BORING: Did you get the chance to get to know Chennault after a while or when did you really start to get to the point where you had more contact with him? R.M. SMITH: I didn't have much contact with Chennault either in the AVG or even later. I didn't really meet and talk to him too much until we started having our reunions and he was at our last reunion in 1957 at Ojai. I remember when Doreen Lomberg escaped from Hong Kong. She was engaged to a staff member, Davis, I believe and when she - she hitchhiked, she escaped from Hong Kong and she hitchhiked and when she saw my car, the Studebaker sedan in front of the station on the Burma Road with AVG on it, she stopped, got off and came up to the station. Then I called - I had direct telephone lines to Kunming, so I called Kunming and told Davis and so he came up the next day and got her. But she, that night we spent a lot of time, she telling about the situations in Hong Kong �and the complete collapse and the Japanese. But she had a foreign passport and was able to escape and get out of there. FRANK BORING: After you finished up at that particular place at Chengyi, where did you go from there? R.M. SMITH: From Chengyi, I stayed there until about a week before we broke up, so it was the end of June and I went down to Kunming. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Kunming were a lot of the other guys there at that time? What was your reaction when you arrived there? What were you expecting and what happened when you arrived there? R.M. SMITH: Well I think the general morale was kind of low at the time. We had lost perhaps 30% of our pilots, either in accidents - mostly in accidents, or enemy action or captured and we were, I think, ready to go home. Generally you don't keep a fighting unit that long in combat without relief. Today I think in front lines they keep combat maybe two weeks with relief and we'd been there for 7 months. So the mood was, let's go home, we've had it. A few stayed - I've forgotten how many - maybe 20 or so pilots and ground crew did stay, but most of us came back to the States. FRANK BORING: I guess what I'm looking for is when you arrived there was two weeks before July 4th - about two weeks just before the July 4th breakup - a lot of people stayed on for two weeks after July 4th. R.M. SMITH: No, I was in Kunming perhaps a week before July 4th and then from there we were officially disbanded on July 4, 1942. FRANK BORING: Was there any attempt to ask you to stay? R.M. SMITH: Yes. I went in before the board. I had told them I wouldn't stay when I was in Kunming - I mean when I was out at my station in Chengyi, I told them I wouldn't stay. �FRANK BORING: Who were they? R.M. SMITH: I got a radiogram from Williams offering me First Lieutenant if I would stay at my station in Chengyi and stay in the Army. I told him no and was relieved by I think, an American Sergeant and so I proceeded down to Kunming. But when I was in Kunming, I started feeling guilty for not staying so I told them that I'd go before the board. So I went in before the - Chennault was there and there were several officers. I do not know - remember who they were, but I also remember that they weren't very friendly. The only question I think they asked me was "Mr. Smith did you graduate from high school?" So I had and I had almost got a reserve commission for three and a half years ROTC in college, so the next question they said "well, General Chennault what rank did you want for Smith?" and he said "Second Lieutenant" and I said "I thought I was going to be a First Lieutenant" and Chennault said "Okay, maybe in 3 months we'll promote you." So I agreed I'd stay. So I went out from the meeting and Ernie Bonham, who was in charge of radio operators AVG, he said "What did you tell them Smitty?" and I said "I said I'd stay" and he said "You can go down to Yunnanyi and relieve Vaux, we've got to get him out of there." So they flew me down, Parker Dupouy flew me down in a twoseated trainer, I think it was an AT6 and landed and the Yunnanyi station was dirty and a mess. There was dust all over the transmitters and the equipment and I was blaming Vaux for not being a good housekeeper. So the first day I spent cleaning it up and getting things in shape. The next morning when I came in it was just as dusty, the dusty old temple had a lot of rats in it and they just stirred up the dust. But then, I got to thinking that I hadn't been sworn in and the guys were going over and saying goodbye and I felt kind of alone. But I still would have stayed. But then I got an abscessed tooth and it was really swollen up and I was hitting myself because there was no dentist, there was nothing I could do about it. So I was hitting myself, trying to break it and then I thought they didn't swear me in. I'm not in the Army - if they'd sworn me in I'd have had it. So I called up in clear and said �"Hey I haven't been sworn in. I've changed my mind." And of course they had to release me and so they came down and brought some poor Sergeant down to relieve me and the pilot - I think it was Dupouy again, Parker, - the weather was bad and he wanted to get out of there and he said "Come on" and I said "I've got to show you where the station is." So I took him up and I said "Do you know anything about codes?" and he said "No" and I said "Well here's the code book." I heard later it took 2 or 3 days before he really got on the air. FRANK BORING: I'd like to go back briefly to… (break) FRANK BORING: Before you do that could you just give us an idea before you made the decision to sign up, why did you want to leave - before the abscess - the first time? R.M. SMITH: I think the reason that I wanted to go, return to the United States, was I think we were tired. Our morale was down. We had been living at the end of the pipeline. The food - well the Chinese fed us - it was well and good - it was certainly not America and there seemed to be a sense of futility. There was no replacements, very few - there were some replacements of P-40's but not many, no spare parts. I think it was just a morale problem. I think it was just we'd been there too long. And remember we worked 7 days a week. We never had a day off. It was from 6 in the morning until dusk and sometimes at night too if something happened. FRANK BORING: I'd like to get a sense of the last day you left the radio area, not Kunming. You had made good friends with Captain Chen, you'd made some close relationships with the Chinese people around you, or at least you'd worked with them. What was your feeling in terms of leaving there? Was there a sense of loss? Was there a sense of you would never see these people again? Was there a sense of accomplishment for what you did? What was the feeling �like when you left that radio shack you'd been working out of for so long? R.M. SMITH: I was sorry to leave my station at Chengyi because of the friends and the people. The local Kiwanis Club at a nearby town had invited me down to speak. There was a local Chinese Colonel who had a wife who was half English, who spoke English and invited me to dinner many times. But they'd started to break up the station. Captain Chen had been ordered out to go the east China to open new stations and as it happens in wartime, things are transitory and while I was sorry to go, I felt that we had done what we'd been hired to do and our contracts, they had definitely - the American the Army they had decided that our contracts would be up on July 4th. We had not said that and if they had continued our contracts, I'm sure we would have stayed longer. FRANK BORING: When you left to come back to the United States, you mentioned you had a culture shock arriving in China, what was it like coming back to the States? R.M. SMITH: When I came back to the States it was different. Of course it was a war atmosphere. Before it had been peace time. But I knew when I came back that we were going to be in this war for a long time and I wanted to be a part of it. When I got back I had a telegram from the War Department offering me to re-enlist in one grade higher. So I decided I would go back. So I went down to March Field and there I argued with the recruiting officer whether I'd be a Master Sergeant or a Tech, so we compromised on Tech Sergeant. While I was down there taking my physical at March Field, I ran into Pappy Greenlaw. Now Pappy Greenlaw had returned to the United States too and he was down there attempting to re-enlist in the service. I also, when I took the physical, the doctor looked at me and he said "I don't know whether you Flying Tigers can pass the physical or not" and I said "What do you mean?" and he said "Well I had two of them in here trying to enlist and I had to flunk them both. One had a punctured ear drum, the other had syphilis." �FRANK BORING: I mean you guys had a lot of air play, on the radio, newspapers, Time Magazine, what was the reaction of the people around you when you arrived back in the United States? Did they know you were a Flying Tiger? R.M. SMITH: Yes. My folks were living in Alhambra at the time and a newspaper man came from the Alhambra Daily Advocate and wanted to interview me, which he did and I think I still have a copy of the clipping. So they were quite interested. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert M. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-25 Title A name given to the resource Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 5 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith discusses the experience of having to leave his station at Chengyi and later returning to the United States. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05a90feddad941b58551d8a69e26d576.mp4 79fa4fa126fa5d665fac899078436ff4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/809f726c725eadaf89cde21dc7567606.pdf 7c612478c00c18e4099e3065fb1f21dc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert M. Smith Date of Interview: 04-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: If we could continue on with your description of the overall communications, the warning net, the Chinese warning net, the AVG warning net, how they all fit in together and what was the purpose of it and how it all fit into Chennault being able to know what was going on during a given day. R.M. SMITH: The American Volunteer Group radio network operated on 648 kilocycles. We had just one frequency, so this meant that of all our 13 radio stations and our planes all were operating on one frequency so they could communicate. Any plane could communicate with any one of the AVG stations. Also, General Chennault maintained a radio in his office tuned into this frequency. The pilots on the field in the ready shack had a receiver listening to this frequency so that they would get information as quickly as possible. The Chinese nets would report and the station at Chengyi [?] and Kunming and Yunnanyi, the AVG stations, would pick up - because we were interconnected by telephone with these. So we would call if we heard of enemy activity, for example, like heavy engine noise in Section L22 - we would call this immediately by voice in the clear to Kunming, so the pilots, any pilot listening or Chennault and our headquarters operations of course, knew immediately what was coming on and they could start plotting. All of Yunnan Province was divided up into sectors with an alphabet across the top and numbers on the side - these were 20 kilometer squares and theoretically there should be a �Chinese air raid radio warning in each of the squares. So if we reported L22, other people with the map knew exactly where they were and generally the first warning would be heavy engine noise that was what they'd hear. Later on it might be 10 two engine Japanese bombers, much more specific. But the first was quite often just heavy engine noise. FRANK BORING: Where were you on December 20th, with the attack on Kunming when there were bombers and the first AVG encounter with the Japanese? R.M. SMITH: On December 20th, on our first encounter, our pilot's first encounter with the Japanese, I was on the Burma Road going up to Kunming, so I was - I spent Christmas day in Lashio and there we heard about this deal, by word of mouth, I don't know how we got the information. But were just driving through and spent the night there, so we heard about it in Lashio. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to this? R.M. SMITH: I don't know - I kind of thought it was to be expected. I kind of just had a feeling that our guys would do right. Although when we first went over there, I was real dubious and I wondered if we'd ever be as famous as the Eagle Squadron in Britain. FRANK BORING: Why is that? R.M. SMITH: Well, the Eagle Squadron was very famous in those days and I really didn't know what the future was going to hold. FRANK BORING: But why did you have any doubts about it - was this during the training period when the airplanes were being cracked up and all that. Let's go back to that for a second. R.M. SMITH: This was one of the depressing things about the training down in Toungoo, that we lost pilots and we lost planes. Our first casualty �was Army Armstrong. He went to Kansas State, my own college and I talked to him one day down at the hangar, he was riding his bicycle and we talked about Kansas State and a few days later there was a crash and he was gone. It was very discouraging because we lost a lot of planes in training accidents. Some of the pilots, I used to hear comments, all they'd ever flown was a big boat in the Navy. So it was discouraging then. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Kunming when was the next encounter that you can recall? They didn't come back to Kunming for… again. R.M. SMITH: The Japanese planes did not come back to Kunming after that first attempt in December 20, 1941, as long as the AVG was in Kunming. Later on, when I was back with the Army Air Corps, I was in bombing raids in Kunming and they were bombing it later, but they didn't try to bomb it while the AVG was there. FRANK BORING: After that initial flurry of battle there, Kunming settled down. Were you still in that area? Where were you transferred to say in January, February, that area? R.M. SMITH: I was transferred from Kunming to the station at Chengyi [?], which is about 140 or 150 miles northeast of Kunming. It was a very good station. The station was set up with a hostel for 200 Americans, they had a good cook, they had a barber - who's only job was to watch my hair grow so he could cut it, which was kind of ridiculous, but we had a good platoon of central troops with wool uniforms guarding the hostel. So it was very good. FRANK BORING: So you said it could house 200 Americans. Were there actually 200 Americans there? R.M. SMITH: No. At that time I was the only American there. Later on - much later when the Americans came in, they did station a squadron there. But when I was there with the AVG, I was the only American in the whole area. �FRANK BORING: Let's talk a little bit about that, being the only American there and your inter-reactions with the Chinese. Who were the Chinese you were interacting with, did they speak English, were they an educated group, did you deal with soldiers, did you deal only with your own group? Tell us as much as you can about that particular period. R.M. SMITH: I was very fortunate at the radio station in Chengyi?. In the first place, the Chinese who was assigned to this station, Captain Chen Nan Ming, was a very intelligent guy with a degree in electrical engineering and spoke excellent English, so we got along real fine, no problem at all. The hostel manager spoke English and the barber didn't, but that was no problem. So it was a very… FRANK BORING: Let's talk a bit about your duties there. What was the routine like, what was your interaction with your fellow workers, did you feel special that you were the only American there, did you feel uncomfortable while you were there? Let's talk about your daily kind of routine. R.M. SMITH: My daily routine at the radio station was to get up at about 5:30 every morning to go open the station. I had it open by 6 o'clock, so the first day that I was there I asked the houseboy to wake me up at 5:30 in the morning. (break) FRANK BORING: You were telling us about your first day there, the houseboy was gonna wake you up - start at the very beginning. R.M. SMITH: On my first day at my radio station in Chengyi, I told the houseboy to wake me up at 5 o'clock in the morning and he looked at me and didn't say anything. Pretty soon, a half hour later he came back and loaned me an alarm clock. He wasn't about to get up at 5:30 in the morning. So anyway I had to open the station at 6:00 and I'd call in to Kunming and report and every station would come in and report. �Then we would sit and if nothing happened, if there was no Japanese activity, it would be mostly just sitting there listening to the receiver crackle. About 8:30 I'd leave the station, which was about almost a mile from the hostel, in charge of the Chinese, and go back and have breakfast and then come back again. I frankly used to look forward to Japanese activity because it was exciting, it was something happening. The way I got my information, there was a Chinese telephone operator who had a desk and an office right next to my station in the same building and he was a key link in the Chinese network. He had I think 8 or so telephones coming in, reporting in to him, which he then reported on to his net control station. So any reports that he got, either from his station or from below him, he would come and tell me. He was very efficient. He'd come in - but the problem was he did not speak English. He had one word of English "Okay" and he'd come in and say "Jing bow" meaning Chinese air raid. And I would say "Sumo di Fong" where? And he'd go over to the big map and he'd start pointing and finding the name and then I could see ah that's sector L22, so I'd call Kunming, "hey heavy engine noise in sector L22". FRANK BORING: Spell for me if you will, the station name R.M. SMITH: C-h-e-n-g-y-i FRANK BORING: If you could explain to us the people that you were working with immediately within your confines of the office there? R.M. SMITH: At the radio station at Chengyi, In charge of the Chinese staff was Captain Chen Nanming, who was a very intelligent and really top guy. Under him was a Lieutenant Chief Operator and two or three other Chinese operators and two or three Chinese mechanics. To guard the station, we had six Yunnanese troops who guarded the transmitter, which was about 1/2 mile away from the receiver station. The receiver station and the transmitter was connected by a telephone - the old Army telephone in a leather case, I think it's EE-8 or something - I've forgotten. Down at the transmitter station, �where the guard was on duty 24 hours a day, there was the transmitter and the car unit that governed and furnished power for the receiver station - was locked, padlocked. But outside the door was two buttons so that the guard there could press a button to start the engine which would give power and we could start the transmitter. Or he could push the off button and kill it. So when we wanted the power, we would ring the phone, he'd say "Wa eh" and I'd say "Kai jiji" that means start the engine or open (technically) open the engine and when we were through with power and were gonna operate on batteries, I'd say "Kwan jiji" shut off the engine, and he'd say "Wai wai.” FRANK BORING: Were there any particular incidents that happened while you were there, that stick out in your mind. I mean you had a daily routine, but was there anything in particular that stuck out at that time, any events, any news perhaps that came in? R.M. SMITH: One thing that we did almost every day at the station was to tune in to the BBC at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. We had 3 radio receivers so one was a battery one that we used when we didn't want to waste gasoline. But we always listened generally to BBC at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. The Chinese would often gather around and then after that was over we would tune to Chung King and they would listen to the news in Chinese which was almost a routine. Most of the time it was very boring for not only me but for the Chinese operators, because they didn't have too much to do. I remember one time I got a long coded message all numbers, from Kunming and I was sitting there copying the code and I started to break because Boogy [?] was going too fast for me and I looked and there was a Chinese operator and he signed they were copying away. They hadn't missed anything, they were faster than I was. So I just stopped copying and leaned back and then when the message - I said Okay and went back to voice and said "Fine Boogy [?]" and he says "Boy you're getting better in your code speed Smith". I never told him. �FRANK BORING: Could you describe any details of encounters or air battles that came over the radio or anything of that nature? R.M. SMITH: I looked forward to Japanese activity. Occasionally, not too often, but occasionally we'd have some real activity. Particularly down near the Burmese border when we were losing Burma and we would watch and we could hear the pilots in the air, we could hear the ground men, the radiomen working back and forth with them and this was dramatic and interesting and exciting. But most of the radioman's time was just sitting there listening to a receiver crackle and nothing happened. We used to play bridge though. I had two interpreters, by the way, assigned to the station and they both played bridge of a sort, so did I. So we'd - but we'd always bid in English and even when I wasn't playing with them and they'd play bridge, they would always bid in English, but then they'd do all their discussions of hands of course in Chinese. It seemed like towards the end of April, that the Japanese were coming up the Burma Road faster than we did in convoy. The whole front collapsed down there. Our planes were pulled back from Rangoon to Toungoo and then back to Lashio and then into the fields around the Burma/Chinese border. This became a very dangerous time for us, at least we felt it was dangerous. I remember talking to Captain Chen and figuring out what if the Japanese did break through, what would we do? Well we had plenty of gasoline and we had a truck and the Studebaker sedan, but we started figuring out the only place that we could go would be north to Chinese Turkistan, towards the Siberian border. But we figured out that we could not carry enough gas to get us there, so we decided that the only thing we could do was pray and see what happened and stick there, because we could not run. The scenes in Paoshan down near the border - we had a radio station at Paoshan but it fell to the Japanese - the scenes there were terrible. Refugees were coming through, there were British troops, Chinese, all trying to get out of Burma and the scenes on the highway and the roads were terrible wrecks, confusion, a lot of people died in that flight from Burma. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert M. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-25 Title A name given to the resource Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 4 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith describes the overall communications for the AVG, in addition to the attack on Kunming and working at the radio station in Chengyi. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3afbbd23587127a26879e83c46804dc5.mp4 599b9b42dbee4b6be7c9b173badfd4f6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6cbbc23aba0fca39696198722559357c.pdf c976e2221c732220d94059a22b13ace0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert M. Smith Date of Interview: 04-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: You had worked with radios in various capacities before you even got out there. I wonder if you could give us a real clear evaluation of the radios that were provided to you to put into these airplanes and as a professional radioman, what was your opinion - how did you react when they gave you these radios to put into these airplanes and how did they work? What kind of problems did you have? R.M. SMITH: We did not have the radios of the caliber that we had in the P-40's in the States. The 20th Pursuit Group was a P-40 group and with three squadrons all using P-40's. So that generally the radiomen, the mechanics that found them were very chagrined when they found that they had to operate with a radio that probably was designed for a Piper Cub - they used to use that phrase. The quality wasn't nearly as good, they weren't as well built, they weren't as solid, they were smaller. They caused problems in the air. We had lots of complaints that the radio didn't work and it was not uncommon at all to find radio failure. FRANK BORING: Before you even installed them, the radios, did you anticipate there was going to be problems? Did you think - oh no, these things are not gonna work right. Did you actually get a chance to tell anybody that - either Parker Dupouy or anybody else? �R.M. SMITH: I don't know. I don't think I can really go in and know that much about the thing. I just don't remember. FRANK BORING: When you got there and it was so hot and the insects were there and there were snakes out there and everything, did you have any second thoughts about - what am I doing here? R.M. SMITH: After I had been there for a week or two, many of us began to wonder what are we doing here and there were a number of them that quit and left because there was absolutely no way to keep anybody there. Technically we were civilians and if we wanted to quit and go home we could. Personally, I had no desire to quit. This was part of the adventure. So it was hot and so it was miserable and the food - the food was terrible - but do you know we were paying I think two or three rupees a day for the food - the chow - but the same contractor that was feeding us, was also in charge of the mess for the British, local British troops. And the British were paying six Anna's a day, which is about a 4th or a 5th of what we were. The British used to like to sneak into our mess because it was so much better than theirs. Well the food was so bad that I got to wondering what are they doing with it in the kitchen? So I decided, foolishly, to go and inspect the kitchen. This was a cultural shock because modern American stoves - no way. A big mud, brick platform with little charcoal pots on it. Dirty, filthy. I couldn't eat for a couple of days. But I made a rule - as long as I'm in the Far East, never again will I go and inspect a kitchen. If it's hot and it tastes good, I'll eat it. FRANK BORING: The time that you spent there at Keydaw, once you had the radios installed, and you're scrounging for equipment and what not, what was your daily routine like? What was it you were doing? I know that the planes were training at that time and planes were cracking up and coming in and being repaired, but what were you doing during that period of time? �R.M. SMITH: In the months before Pearl Harbor while the pilots were mostly training, I frankly don't remember too much what I was doing at that time. It was a routine and not particularly memorable. The things I do remember is we did used to go into Toungoo, they'd run a truck in and I can remember going and visiting the local Buddhist Temple. They had a Kwei [?] there during the Feat [?] of Lights and sitting around - you had to take your shoes off in the temple, but you could smoke - it was okay to smoke and talking with the local Burmese there. Many of them of course spoke English. The rumor that went around with the Burmese was that Britain had borrowed so much money from the United States that they had pawned Burma to the United States and we were there to see that it was being taken care of and the British didn't get away with anything. FRANK BORING: Let's now go to the day of the bombing of Pearl Harbor. How did you first hear about it and what was your reaction to it once you had heard? Because you had stopped off in Honolulu and you had spent some time there. I don't know if you knew any people that were at Pearl Harbor or not - but what was your reaction and how did you find out about it? R.M. SMITH: Well I remember on December 8th, which was a day different than on the other side of the International Date Line, I remember getting up and going down to the field and someone told me the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor. And I though uh oh, what shall I do. But I was scheduled to go out and look for equipment and I thought well, we're going to need it, so I did. When I came back it seemed to be - lots of rumors were flying around. The Chinese wanted us I think to go to China, the British wanted us to go to Rangoon to protect Rangoon and there were a lot of radiograms being sent all over the world, I think, to finally decide what we should do. So after 2 or 3 days, the word came one squadron is to go to Rangoon, the other two to China. The ground crew were to go up in convoy, because we didn't have any planes to take �equipment and men, so started up with trucks and Studebaker sedans, started up the road. FRANK BORING: Bob Locke had told us that the Studebaker sedans were not exactly the best mode of transportation for the Burma Road. Did you run into this kind of experience? What were the loading of equipment like, the trucks, the Studebaker's and all that? R.M. SMITH: The trucks that we had were mostly, in fact all, were American made I think Chevrolet's. The Studebaker sedans, I rode up the Burma Road and then later I had one at my station, they were comfortable. Of course it wasn't a jeep and occasionally we'd get springs broken, but they got us up there. FRANK BORING: What was the experience like, traveling up the Burma Road? R.M. SMITH: I enjoyed the trip up the Burma Road. I remember the first night we stopped at Mandalay and Mandalay as portrayed by Kipling, it always sounded very romantic to me, but Mandalay was a hole. It was down in the flatlands, dirty, no place to eat, we ate out of tin cans by the side of the road. We fixed cots and slept outside - no hotels, no hostels. So the next time up the road we stopped I think the next stop was Lashio, which was up in the hills and that was much nicer. It was a British colony where the British went during the summer months, so they had - I think there was a restaurant there or at the railroad station. FRANK BORING: What were you expecting to find at the end of this journey? Had they told you anything about where you were going or what you were going to go to? R.M. SMITH: We were told, when we started out on the trip up the Burma Road that our destination was Kunming and we had not much other information. I didn't really know what I was going to get into or what to expect. But what little we had seen of the Chinese up to this time, we knew we were going to be welcome. In fact the �Chinese General came and visited us at Toungoo and gave every man in the outfit a Fifth of Johnny Walker Red Label whiskey. I remember it rather fondly because I hadn't been drinking much scotch before then because a number of my friends did not drink, so I was also able to get their bottles. So we were looking forward to going up to China. It was - and after all Kunming is beautiful it's about 7000 feet above sea level in the tropics, so the climate is excellent. FRANK BORING: Could you describe for us your arrival in Kunming? Your impressions of it the first time you arrived there. R.M. SMITH: My first impression when I hit Kunming was good. We were billeted in hostel Number 1 which had been a college and we were assigned two men to a room with nice twin beds and the hot showers. The first time we'd had a hot shower I think - a regular shower - since we'd left the ship. The showers in Burma were a bucket, a wooden bucket with a shower head on the bottom of the bucket. These were filled with water and you had kind of a pulley that pulled them up over you. So you'd turn on a little bit of water, wet down, turn it off because you've only got one bucket for a shower. So to find nice hot showers with plenty of water in Kunming was the best we'd seen for a long time. FRANK BORING: In Kunming, once you had settled into the hostel, what were your immediate duties there? Were they any different than Burma - cite some of the differences? R.M. SMITH: When I first got to Kunming I was placed in charge of communications supply and they had a fairly large warehouse there and I know that I had a bunch of carpenters building desks and file cabinets and so forth like that. And I was there for several weeks and then I was sent down to Kunyang to relieve Richardson, who was our radioman down there, for a week's vacation and then after I relieved him, I came back to Kunming and then was sent up to the radio station VO2 at Chengyi [?]. �FRANK BORING: What were these radio stations like? Can you describe them to us and what was their function? R.M. SMITH: Each radio station had one transmitter which was - RCA 4 channel - you could transmit on any one of 4 frequencies, very powerful 400 watt transmitter. Then we had 3 receivers and power units to power the transmitters and the receiver rooms. The station equipment was fine. The quality of the housing for the equipment very drastically from station to station. Quite often our radio stations were set in a temple, because in a small town or village, the only public building is the temple and the natives, the people in China used that for their weddings, to put guests, whatever, the only public building in the village. So quite often we were housed there. FRANK BORING: So these radio areas were part of the warning net? R.M. SMITH: Yes. They were superimposed. We had thirteen radio stations in the AVG in Yunnan Province in China. Later on we had more, but we also closed some that we had down near the Burmese border. They were superimposed on the Chinese air raid warning net. My station at Chengyi [?] was at one of the Chinese net control headquarters for the area, there were three Chinese net control stations. One at Chengyi [?], one at Kunming and one at Yunnanyi. The Chinese nets fed in from either radio or telephone lines into these net control stations, but the stations themselves were somewhat interlocking. In other words, there was not only information feeding up and down, but also between stations, particularly the radio stations of course. FRANK BORING: I'd like to get a better perspective of how all this interwove, how this all worked together. You had Chinese stations, then you had the AVG stations. What was the effect of the whole together? Were they separate from each other? Did they interlink with each �other? Where was the central location for controlling it and operating? R.M. SMITH: The Chinese air raid warning net was of itself independent and completely separate from the AVG net and they fed in to the various population centers warnings of any enemy, Japanese activity. Our 13 stations were placed in strategic places where we could 1) collect information from the Chinese, the radioman or whoever was there and 2) communicate with our pilots in the air if they should so happen to be over our station. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert M. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-25 Title A name given to the resource Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 3 of 6) 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith discusses his reactions to the airplane radios of the AVG, the news of Pearl Harbor, and traveling up the Burma Road. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dd2bc36b792cfa2992837958980b5649.mp4 f302b83ea5081aa88cf66b82060720b8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee04d71680bb96922925b184183b524c.pdf 72896b8007842e20a018a644767165aa PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert M. Smith Date of Interview: 04-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: Once you were on the ship there were some frequent stops on your way before you arrived in Rangoon, are there any particular places that you stopped off that you thought were of particular interest? R.M. SMITH: On the trip from San Francisco, our first stop was Honolulu. We went in there in the afternoon and we were given leave and then sailed the next morning. Honolulu was a Navy town, lots of sailors around and I did a little shopping. I bought a diary, a bound ledger which I used for a diary, I bought half a dozen Hawaiian shirts which I wore later in China and then had a drink or two and then back to the ship. Our next stop - well, after we left Honolulu after the first day or so, we picked up two Navy cruisers, the Salt Lake City and the North Hampton, who convoyed us then down straight south, southwest into eventually the straits between New Guinea and Java and then the Salt Lake City and the North Hampton dropped us and we were picked up by a Dutch gunboat that took us into Singapore. FRANK BORING: I think there was some reference "Maverick War" maybe came from your diary about the night life in Honolulu. R.M. SMITH: The night life in Honolulu - it was the 15th of the month and that was Navy pay day and the Navy was out in force and they were at the local houses of ill repute, lining up in lines. Of course my group were mostly Army and we were looking down on these �Navy men for their crude approach. But I guess when you're in a sailor's town - that's about all I remember of that. FRANK BORING: When you arrived in Singapore, I noticed in your diary you had a great deal about Singapore. What was your impression upon arriving there and how long did you stay and what were some of the things you did? R.M. SMITH: When we got to Singapore, we only stayed there about 24 hours. It had been planned that we'd stay there a week or two and then go up north to Burma by railroad. But the first 30 of the AVG had been there a couple of weeks before and they had really torn up the town. They advertised in the local paper a beauty contest to attract good looking young Asian girls, they were obstreperous to say the least, so when they heard that we had hit town, 123 of us, the local authorities said no way and so they ordered the Dutch Captain of the Jaegersfontein to take us up to Rangoon, which took another five days. But we did get shore leave. We got 24 hours, that night we went ashore. We didn't stay at a hotel, we just came back around midnight. But, as I remember, Singapore, it was a dirty town. Open sewers - I understand it's cleaned up now - but it smelled. The canals that went through it, the odor was so bad that we held our noses and ran to get away from the canal. It was - little kids crapping in the street - it was a cultural shock. When the Navy - I mean the British came aboard our ship, they were dressed in typical tropical with light shorts and high stockings and our guys whistled at them, they'd never seen them, we didn't wear shorts in the States in 1941 - men didn't wear shorts. But later, when we were in Burma, not only did our guys all start wearing shorts, but they didn't wear the real neat shorts like the British did, they wore shorts that were cut up fairly high. But it was a cultural shock for us - it was a real cultural shock to see the different peoples, the various races, Indians, Malays, British, Australian, Chinese incredible - it was incredible. �FRANK BORING: You also mentioned that another thing about Singapore that upset you was the selling of the daughters for sexual purposes. R.M. SMITH: When one of our men reported, we got back to the ship - that the apparently a native husband had sold his wife - because when he got up in the morning, the husband was sleeping outside the door of the bedroom. Their customs were somewhat different. FRANK BORING: What was your first impression on arriving in Rangoon? What can you describe for us about the arrival there? Because this was your first train - you went to Rangoon and then to Toungoo? First was Rangoon though, right? R.M. SMITH: Yes, we arrived in Rangoon, I think it was the 23rd of August and the ship did not go up and dock at docks, it anchored out in the harbor and we went ashore on Lighters and our baggage was taken ashore. This was in the morning, so they took us to a hotel and fed us a breakfast around 10 o'clock in the morning, then they put us on the local railroad, local train, which was a narrow gauge train that ran north from Rangoon through Toungoo and then eventually up to Lashio. So we got into Toungoo sometime late in the afternoon and I'll never forget old Walter Dolan, my old buddy, the first time I saw him he was part of the first 30 group and he was out there in a pair of white duck trousers, a sun helmet, carrying a stick and he watched us come in and he said "Welcome suckers" and I remember that pair of white ducks because I bought them from him later for $5.00 because he couldn't wear them anymore and they had a 30 inch waist, which I couldn't use today. FRANK BORING: From Rangoon, what was the next stop? Where did you go from there? R.M. SMITH: From Rangoon we went up to Toungoo which was a small town in the central Burma plains and the airport was about 7 miles out of town, Keydaw Airport. Toungoo had one place to eat, the railroad �station, and some Baptist Missionaries. I remember I bought from them a Burmese grammar to study Burmese. FRANK BORING: Give us your impressions of your arrival there. What were the living conditions like? What was the weather like? What was the atmosphere like? R.M. SMITH: We were in Toungoo in central Burma in the middle of August, it is hot, the first thing that we noticed was the horrible, oppressive heat. Our barracks were built for the British. Teak wood with a veranda, porch, on one side. The beds all had a nice little sticker on them saying "On his Majesty's Service," but this airfield was built for the British but they were not using it, so they turned it over to us as a gesture because Chennault did not want to start training up in China because Burma, at that time was neutral and it was a safer and better place to train than China itself, where we could have been subjected immediately to air raids and many of our pilots had never blown a P-40. FRANK BORING: What were the barracks like? Could you describe a little bit more in detail what the barracks were like? R.M. SMITH: The barracks were made of teak, the roof was a thatched roof, they had lots of bugs in them, we had mosquito bars over the barracks and when we'd go to bed at night, I'd always take my clothes inside to keep various odd creatures from getting in them. Then the first thing I'd do when I dressed in the morning was to knock out my shoes to be sure that I didn't have anything in there before I put my feet in them. FRANK BORING: Were there any incidents you could recall - one of the things that was mentioned in one of the books was snakes would sometimes run through the barracks. Were there any incidents that you can recall that happened in the barracks along that line? �R.M. SMITH: I don't remember any snakes in the barracks, but I do remember almost stepping on a crate one night as I was going over to the mess hall and we heard some real nice stories about the crate. They said if you're bitten by it, you had 90 seconds to live and they tell a story of a Gurkha who was bit in the hand and with one motion he took his knife and cut his hand off in order to save his life. A crate is a very poisonous snake, not too long. FRANK BORING: That story is powerful. This time explain what the crate is though. R.M. SMITH: There was a story about the Gurkha who was bitten by a crate. Now a crate is one of the most poisonous snakes in Southeast Asia. It's not very long, it has colors of red and yellow on it. They tell the story of a Gurkha who was bitten by the crate - when you're bitten you have 90 seconds before you die - so with one motion the Gurkha grabbed his knife and cut off his hand in order to save his life. FRANK BORING: What were your immediate duties, if you will, once you arrived there? What was your job, what were you supposed to be doing? R.M. SMITH: The first job that I had when I got there was - since I was a radioman - was to tear out all the wiring in the P-40 planes that we had, because they were wired for British radios because these had been designed to go to Britain. But we didn't have the British radios, so we had to tear out the wiring and re-wire them for an RCA 7H. I think it was a radio that was designed for Piper Cubs. The radios had - I think 24 volt batteries in the planes - but the radios were 12 volt, so we had to tap half the side of the battery in order to run the radio. Now this runs down the battery on one side and out the other, which doesn't do any good for the batteries and makes the crew chief very, very unhappy. Crew chiefs were always chewing out the radiomen because of their damn radios. So we set up a little shed near the field and we had a battery charger there and we had many batteries and we were always charging batteries. �FRANK BORING: When was your first meetings with the official AVG people, for example Chennault or Greenlaw or any of these people? When did you first meet these people? R.M. SMITH: When I got to Toungoo, I never really met Chennault while I was there. I saw him at a distance. I saw various people, but most of my contact was with Parker Dupouy who was appointed Communications Officer and so he was the one that I talked to and that I reported to. FRANK BORING: During your stay in Toungoo, besides putting the radios in - or is that all you did during that period of time? Were there other things that you had to do besides the radios? R.M. SMITH: Besides that I was put in charge of communication supply while I was in Toungoo and one of my jobs was to try to scrounge tools and any spare parts that I could get locally in the local town of Toungoo. I remember the day before - the day Pearl Harbor when we heard about it, I had been planning to go to Toungoo to go around the various shops and markets and scrounge tools and I though well I might as well go, I think we're gonna need them worse than ever now, so I did. FRANK BORING: What's involved with scrounging? What do you mean by scrounging? R.M. SMITH: Scrounging is an old Army term meaning going out and get by any means - fair or foul - whatever you need for tools, food, whatever. FRANK BORING: So for example if you went into Toungoo to get radio parts or something like that, where would you look for that? R.M. SMITH: There were thieves' markets in Toungoo. There used to be jokes that if something was stolen from you, go down there the next day and you can buy it back. You would see - they would sell - I bought pliers there, screwdrivers, various odds and ends. Whatever �was around. We'd buy things there that here in the States that we'd probably throw away, we wouldn't bother with. FRANK BORING: What was the supply situation like in Toungoo in terms of you have a problem with fixing something because of a tool - could you just ask Parker Dupouy and he'd be able to provide you with the equipment? How did you go about - I guess what I'm trying to get is this idea of - you didn't have a Sears and Roebuck that you could just order out of - what was the supply situation like? R.M. SMITH: One of the big problems in our supply situation was that we did not have any spare parts at all and very little proviso for them. We had 100 P-40's, one of which dropped in the bay at Rangoon, so absolutely no spare parts. There were no tires, no extra tires or anything. So when a plane crashed and we had quite a few accidents, we'd use the plane to the part various parts for repair. Later on they did find from the Philippines and from Singapore, they did find some spare tires and some various other things. In fact, Joe Alsop, that was his main job there to scrounge around the various parts of the Far East looking for spare parts. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert M. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-25 Title A name given to the resource Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 2 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith describes the journey overseas with the AVG, his first impressions upon arrival in Rangoon and Toungoo, and his first duties as a radioman for the group. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ef5c603f2a3bec79c5c9d13a575c4f9.mp4 7054adf20b2a18ea489e79a9f7abae38 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b93d7501e76d4408f9f476e72b2d35a0.pdf f4248f9967b5831b0c41e01dd221e307 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert M. Smith Date of Interview: 04-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: To being with if you could tell us in as much detail as you want, what were you doing before you even heard about the opportunity in China with the AVG? R.M. SMITH: Well, I'd gone to school in Kansas, I went to Kansas State and while I was there I got interested in radio, radio writing and the local station, KSAC and real interested and did quite a bit of work, mostly dramatic, mostly historical stuff. Then my folks were in Colorado and I went out there one summer and with the help of Doc Summers, a Professor of public speaking, I got a job at the local radio station and I hadn't graduated, I still needed a semester. So here I was a radio announcer for a couple of years. I used to go out with my girl and the chief engineer and his girl and we'd practice code and drink some kind of Catawba wine I remember and so I got interested and picked up a little code speed. Then towards the end of 1939 I came out to California and tried to crack Hollywood, but I got three interviews for radio announcer, but I flubbed them, I was nervous so I decided I wasn't gonna do that, knew a war was coming. So in January 1940 I decided I was gonna enlist in the Army. My ROTC was Army. So I went down to Fort MacArthur and the Sergeant down there looked at me and he said "I'm gonna put you in the Air Force." So January of 1940 I was sent up to Moffett Field for basic. But they didn't have any uniforms for us and they didn't have any shoes, so we spent the six weeks basic mostly in the barracks. Then they sent us up to �Hamilton Field for the 20th Pursuit Group and I remember when I was interviewed by an old Major - he was at least must have been 40 - he looked at my record and said "Well son, you can go to Randolph Field, you've got two years of college. You don't have to pass the mental, just the physical." I said "Well I don't think I can pass the physical because one eye is 20-30." And he leaned back and he said "Well, maybe it's just as well. I'm the only one left out of my class at Randolph." Anyway they split the 20th Pursuit Group into the 35th, so there were 3 more squadrons, 2 more group headquarters, this happened about a year later. In the meantime, I'd practiced total out on the squadron school and studied and I was able to pass the various exams, so I passed the exam for Air Mechanic First Class, which paid Tech Sergeant's pay. When they split, of course there were all kinds of openings. So I got here a year later, I was Buck Sergeant drawing Tech Sergeant's pay and that's when they came around in April of '41 recruiting for the AVG and boy that sounded fine - $300.00 a month for a radioman. FRANK BORING: What was your first encounter with it? Did you find it by a newspaper? By word of mouth, how did you find about AVG? R.M. SMITH: Oh it was word of mouth. The word was going from here to here to there. So they told me - I've even forgotten who I talked to. So I went in and presented myself and he said "Fine, you want to go fine. You're a Radioman." But I was a radio operator really, not a mechanic. FRANK BORING: What did they tell you your responsibilities were gonna be and where you were gonna go and the purpose of why you were going? R.M. SMITH: Well they told us we were going to protect the Burma Road. They may have told pilots more than they told us, but I had no - I realized it was going to be a war situation, I had no illusions about an easy peace time job. I knew what we'd probably be getting into so that didn't particularly worry me. I was just glad to go. �FRANK BORING: What did you know about the Chinese at that time and later the Japanese at that time? R.M. SMITH: Nothing really. Nothing except what one reads or picks up, but nothing about China, nothing about Japan. It was just romance. (break) FRANK BORING: Once again, what did you know about China at that time and what did you know about the Japanese at that time? R.M.SMITH: Well I really didn't know anything about the Chinese or Japan except what one reads in the newspapers. I knew of course that there'd been a war since 1937 and they'd been fighting the Japanese, but I didn't have any real detailed - I was of course pro Chinese. I think most Americans were at the time, but I really didn't know any detail at all. FRANK BORING: Why did you want to go? R.M. SMITH: It was adventure. I would have gone for $100 dollars a month. It was $300 a month and it was a chance to see the world. I was just happy to go. FRANK BORING: Once you'd made the decision to go, could you explain to us the procedure of getting out of the military and joining up with the AVG and any difficulties you may have had. R.M. SMITH: Well I didn't have any difficulty at all in getting out of the service. Apparently when I put in for my discharge, there was no argument at all because I think our C.O. was, by the way, Colonel Aker, later General Aker. But Arvol Miller, who was another Radioman, heard that I was going so he went in and said "Hey, I want to go too." And Aker heard about and says "No way, they're taking enough of our Radiomen." So the interviewer for the AVG, he got on the horn to Washington and radiogram came back or telegram came back saying "Release Arvol Miller, so he was released. �FRANK BORING: What was the next step in terms of your leaving the military, where did you go next to join up with the AVG? R.M. SMITH: I was discharged from the Army Air Corps on June 26, 191. My mother was living down in Los Angeles, so I went down to Los Angeles for a few days and then a week or two later I caught a train in Union Station up to San Francisco. I remember my uncle, William Dutton, came down, my mother's brother came down to see me off and I heard later he turned to my mother and he said "We'll never see that boy again." Well, he was partially right because he died before I got back to the States. But then we went up to - Jim Music, I met him on the train, he and I went up together to San Francisco and they had reservations for us in a hotel there I've forgotten the name now, but we stayed there for several days until the 10th of July and on the 10th we sailed from San Francisco. I remember because it was my brother Philip's birthday. FRANK BORING: What did you tell your mom about your going? R.M. SMITH: Well I told my mother the truth and my mother was always one of these women who would say "Well if you want to do it, go ahead." I didn't have any problems at all and also I made an allotment out so that my mother had an income while I was in the service - while I was over in China. I had no objection and later my mother and father were both very proud of the fact that I'd been there. Mother made many little talks at Ladies Aid or something showing various things that I brought back from China. FRANK BORING: You're staying in this hotel in San Francisco. This is when you're meeting a lot of the AVG at this time, a lot of the Tigers were showing up at this time. Could you describe your arrival there and your meeting these guys and hearing what they were saying about any of that? �R.M. SMITH: There were quite a bunch of us that got together at the hotel in San Francisco. There were 123, I think, of pilots and ground people and there was quite a bit of drinking and talking, but I don't remember anything in particular that we talked about. FRANK BORING: How did you react to being in the presence of a bunch of guys all going off to China? Did you hear different reasons why they were going or - what was the main subject of conversation that you guys were talking about? R.M. SMITH: I really can't recall anything particular. It's been so long, I just don't remember FRANK BORING: Was there a sense of excitement? Was there a sense of danger? R.M. SMITH: Well there was quite a feeling of excitement - all of us were real happy to go. We were looking forward to it, it was a great adventure. We were a little dubious about some of the things that had been promised or the rumors that got around, but I don't think anyone would have turned around and gone back to the service. FRANK BORING: What kind of doubts did you have? What were some of these rumors that you're referring to? R.M. SMITH: There was a rumor that the pilots would be paid $500.00 a month for every plane shot down, this went around. And there was some doubt about that, some of them really didn't think that they would do it. (break) R.M. SMITH: One of the doubts was that the - particularly from the pilots - that they really didn't believe that they were going to be paid $500.00 for every plane they shot down. They were a little dubious on that. Generally, there was some speculation. �FRANK BORING: I know later on these things were brought up, but did you at that time think that you were a mercenary or going to a foreign country to fight under a foreign flag or did you think in terms of you were just an American getting into the war before America got in the war? What were your feelings at that time? R.M. SMITH: I realized at the time that I was a mercenary and that didn't bother me a bit. When we got to China - or not to China - when we got to Toungoo in Rangoon, we were required or asked to sign a piece of paper that put us in the Chinese Air Force and I had no objection to that at all. Although some of the fellows kind of cried a little bit or objected, but I didn't - it didn't bother me. FRANK BORING: From San Francisco you boarded a ship? R.M. SMITH: We boarded the Jaegersfontein in San Francisco. It was a Dutch ship out of Java. All of the servants aboard were Javanese, wearing their skirts and the turbans and were very colorful. The food was good, it had a bar, you could charge, sign your name. In 35 days at sea I don't think we ran out of booze at all. FRANK BORING: Can you describe for us perhaps some of the incidents that may have happened on the ship? R.M. SMITH: Well the happiest place of course was the bar and we played bridge, we played a lot of bridge and there were poker games going on all the way across. We were rather packed. The rooms were designed for two people, but they put extra cots in so generally most rooms had three, so they were a little crowded. But the service was good and we were treated well. FRANK BORING: As I understand it, you all had different occupations on your passports. I wonder if you could comment on that particular bit? R.M. SMITH: I of course was listed as a radio announcer, but I had been a radio announcer. But some of the other fellows who hadn't had any �civilian jobs at all, they had to make something up. So they did with some imagination. FRANK BORING: What about your fellow passengers? Was there any interaction between the AVG group and the other people that were on the ship? R.M. SMITH: All the first class passengers were AVG. There was some steerage there and there were some Chinese there - some Chinese very educated - one of which gave lessons in Chinese for us for $1.00 a lesson and I took those lessons and quite a few of us did while we were on the ship. FRANK BORING: You said that people made up occupations could you give us…? R.M. SMITH: Gosh I don't remember. There's other books that tell this but we didn't see each other's passport or look at it. FRANK BORING: Did you have to maintain any kind of secrecy while you were in San Francisco? Were you aware of anything like that? R.M. SMITH: We weren't aware of any secrecy at all. I think we were told to keep quiet about what we were doing, but I don't remember anything particular. We didn't associate with any other civilians, mostly within ourselves. But I know there were a lot of rumors going around. FRANK BORING: Once you were on the ship, you were starting to get to know some of these guys that you were eventually going to become very good friends with. Could you let us know what that was like to get to know some of these people that were from all over the country and any ones in particular that you became close to, starting on the trip on the ship? Were there any of the AVG guys that stuck out that you personally, in terms of developing a friendship that eventually lasted into China and beyond? �R.M. SMITH: Most of the close friends I made in the AVG, came on other ships and the only one that I knew fairly well on the ship, a guy named Hauser, because I played bridge with him, he quit early. But the ones that I really got to associate and made good friends, lasting friends, came on other ships. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Robert M. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-04-25 Title A name given to the resource Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 1 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith discusses his background in the Army Air Corps prior to joining the American Volunteer Group and his journey overseas aboard the Jaegersfontein. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/63db44ada0258f43b7f8b18176721b35.mp4 f1c767cf4815c32d0090b19b9439d98c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fabaf85b4373b6922efb583599d936c8.pdf 2f0b6f56f359cd2b6751d172474e89f6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] ERIK SHILLING: In Cairo when the P-40's finally came up and I had been sent to Cairo to ferry one of the P-40's back, Tom Haywood and I came back together and when we got to Tel Aviv, the next day when we were going to a place called Habenea [?], which is the airport for Baghdad, it was drizzle and rain and low ceilings and of course the P-40 didn't have any radio for navigating or making instrument let downs, so we felt that we would have to stay again and at this time, a BOAC airplane was there and it was a converted bomber and one of the passengers on board this BOAC airplane, incidentally was the Queen of Iran, who happened to be the sister of King Farouk and she was at that time the Shah's wife, but she didn't produce any men, so he went through a couple more wives. But anyhow, we found out that they were going to the same place we were so we felt that if we could fly formation with them, they said okay that it was fine. The only trouble was when we were asking about speeds and so on, they were talking about true air speed and true air speed and indicated air speed can be a great difference. So when they were talking about true air speed we thought they were talking about indicated air speed. So everything was just fine so we took off ahead because we were more maneuverable and we circled around until they got off and when they got off, we got down into formation with them and of course you can fly formation on instruments if you're tucked in close enough. So we were doing real fine until we hit a torrential downpour of rain and we weren't ready for it and we were too far out so we split and I told Tom to �climb 500 and I would go down 500 and so we continued on the same heading and about 5 minutes later we came into a great big round open clearing, although there were clouds over us and clouds under us, but we then went back into formation and really tucked it in because we didn't want that to happen again. But as we were flying along we were real slow and when you're flying real slow in a P-40, your spark plugs start fouling up and the engine starts running rough and we were having engine problems at that time and a little bit later on we ran into beautiful clear weather. So we told him what our problem was so we left him and went up to cruising power, which then eventually cleared out the plugs. But we were only about 15 minutes after that, that we ran into a damn sand storm and in the sand storm it just goes from the ground up and it was like a knife - this sand was being kicked up by a real strong wind and like clear here and sand here - and we tried to get on top of it and we went up to 20,000 feet and were still in it and so what I decided to do then was sort of head to the north a little bit and hopefully we could eventually run out of the stuff or pick up the Euphrates River and follow the Euphrates down to Baghdad and then the Habenea? Airport was near Baghdad. Fortunately about 20 miles short of there, the sand storm stopped just like it had begun and we were able to get into our destination of Habenea [?]. FRANK BORING: Let's go back to the Salween Bridge and if you don't have so much to say in terms of your actual participation, could you give us an evaluation of how it fit in the AVG history, in terms of China's history and how important that was? ERIK SHILLING: I flew top cover on one of the Salween River strikes and it was the only place I think that the air has ever stopped a ground force. It was a very narrow - the Burma Road is extremely narrow and many places it's absolutely impossible to turn a truck around or anything and they were all the way down to the bridge and the bridge had been blown. So there were hundreds of trucks that were trapped there and flew top cover because the P-40's that I was �flying only had two 50's and four 30's and we couldn't carry bombs - it had no provision for bomb racks and the P-40E's had gotten out there and they had six 50's, much more devastating for ground strafing and they also could carry 250 pound bombs in the wing racks, so they were the ones that went down and did the strafing and caught - I don't know how many - hundreds of trucks in the convoy there and the Japanese were stopped at the Salween and actually turned around and started retreating at that point. They never progressed beyond the Salween River Gorge for the rest of the war. Really what that amounted to was if they had overrun Kunming, it was very likely that China would have succumbed to the war and China - the people in China - the soldiers and so on were occupying maybe almost a million Japanese soldiers and had they been successful in taking Kunming and then of course Chung King would have been next - nothing would have stopped them then - that would have relieved almost a million soldiers to then go out on these different islands and actually it could have been an entirely different ending to the war or much more devastating as far as loss of lives was concerned. FRANK BORING: At the end of that period of time you had gone through all these experiences, you had major difficulties in overcoming everything from weather to food to you'd worked hard, you'd watched friends of yours die, you had been at the forefront of the war, could you tell us your impression, your reaction to General Bissell coming in and giving you this lecture about your role in the war. Give us as much detail as you can about that meeting. ERIK SHILLING: Bissell came over and I often wonder really what his mission was and I honestly believe that he was attempting to dissuade us from joining because nobody in their right mind would have approached us and tried to induce us into joining the Army Air Corps at that time. He wasn't that dumb, so I think that first of all he never said that we had done a good job, never recognized the fact that we had done a job well done, didn't ask us to stay and help indoctrinate the new pilots, to help them learn what we had already learned and it �just - I cannot imagine any other reason for him to act the way he did. He said that when we went home we would be faced with the draft board and he would see that we went into the Army instead of being pilots and he would absolutely refuse to give us any transportation back, although our contract called for this. He was just so negative that no one - only five guys and that was at the personal plea of Chennault, stayed. Whereas I think that had Chennault made the bid for us to stay, I was prepared, I had already applied for a commission and Bissell changed my mind completely. He was so intensely disliked by many of the AVG guys that some of the ground personnel had taught the Chinese refuelers - and the Chinese refuelers thought that it meant Hi or Hello or something like this and what they taught them was "Piss on Bissell" so every time they refueled an airplane the crew and everybody, passengers coming of would be greeted with "Piss on Bissell" and I'm quite sure that sooner or later Bissell heard this. FRANK BORING: I would like to sum up at this point - I won't say evaluation but your personal feelings about Claire Chennault. ERIK SHILLING: I found that everything he said was true. In other words, his word was never in my opinion - never to be doubted. (break) ERIK SHILLING: (break) Claire Chennault to me - there's only one guy I loved better and that was my father. He never lied to any of us. He always stood behind his word and I just - it's difficult to even know - when you like somebody as well as I liked him and I think almost everyone with just a few exceptions, felt the same way about Chennault. He was really a wonderful person. His appearance was 180 degrees from what he was inside. He was really a soft-hearted, kind guy, yet his appearance was - he was rough, tough and a mean old bastard, but he wasn't. �ERIK SHILLING: Of course when we left, everyone that liked him went over and said goodbye to him, but I then had the opportunity to visit him quite frequently because with CNAC, flying the hump, I used to go over maybe once a month or - we were always welcome in his office regardless of what rank or what he was doing, he's never been too busy to see me. FRANK BORING: What do you feel you personally accomplished during that period of your life with the AVG? ERIK SHILLING: That's difficult because after I left the AVG and started flying the hump, I really felt that I had accomplished even much more there than I did flying for the AVG. Because I've made in round figures about 540 round trips on the hump. The military would send them home after 25 round trips, so all of Chennault's supplies and everything - every drop of gas, every bullet that was fired, every bomb practically that was dropped, had to be brought over the hump and I felt that by the longer I flew the hump, the better I was at it and whereas the military lost many more planes and pilots on the hump, than our small group did because of the familiarity with the hump. FRANK BORING: Let's look at it from a different perspective then - just looking back on your life where do you think the AVG fits into history, into American history, into Chinese history? ERIK SHILLING: I think the AVG fits into a very small area when the whole world was tumbling down around the Americans. We were devastated at Pearl Harbor, we had lost Singapore, we had lost Hong Kong, we had lost the Philippines and there wasn't a bright spot on the horizon anyplace except our small group of AVG and this - the way I see it - the American people realized that once given a chance - what the Americans could do. �FRANK BORING: One final question. How do you react to being called a Flying Tiger? ERIK SHILLING: At one time I didn't think too much of it, but the older I get I'm quite proud of that. I think that looking back on it, the more I see everything - it's difficult to say but I'm really proud of being a Flying Tiger, but it's not that I think I'm better than anything, I just had that opportunity presented itself to me and I was fortunate to take advantage of it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 8 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses the importance of the events at Salween Bridge, in addition to the AVG's place in American and Chinese history and his reaction to being a Flying Tiger. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ea722654a84e2f107dfaf378f67aa81.mp4 7b1c6ac3845e1bf1875d5012c3282e79 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7eed01bd4277bcfaed96b1fa993171d4.pdf b4ed7e105b45e63e9699b3d0cd6af8ea PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] FRANK BORING: What was the reason for your decision to change from the First Squadron to the Second Squadron to the Third Squadron? ERIK SHILLING: When I first got to the AVG I was assigned to the headquarters squadron and when it came time to be assigned to one of the combat squadrons, I was assigned to the First Squadron and I didn't particularly like Sandell. I didn't think that he was very much of a leader and I think that as far as pilot ability, although the guy is dead, I didn't think too much of his flying ability and I didn't want to fly with a guy who was leading the squadron. Then I went to the Second Squadron but I always wanted to go to the Third and I had some personal - although Newkirk may not have known it - I had a personal sort of a dislike for Newkirk as well. He was always I thought on an ego trip and when I finally got to the Third Squadron, I was quite happy. Besides I'd run out of squadrons. FRANK BORING: Let's go to January 17th and McMillan was leading a flight, this was your first taste of battle. Could you give us an idea of what this was like? ERIK SHILLING: On January 17th we were scheduled and ready to go on another photo recon flight and we already had the engines running and someone came out from operations and told us that there were three bombers inbound toward Kunming and so instead of the photo recon, because the airplanes were ready, we took off and �intercepted them almost 125 miles away. My first impression was that I could hardly believe my eyes, there must be some mistake that these can't be Japanese. I had heard other guys had the same feeling, that they can hardly believe it until they start into the combat and George McMillan was the leader, Chuck Older, the guy who was a Judge and Tom Haywood, the four of us and we shot all four of those guys down. I think that I may have gotten the leader because my thoughts were this. There were only three of them so I didn't have to worry about any others and I felt that if I aimed for the leader and just sort of let my bullets drift on back, if I didn't get the leader, I could get one of the wing men and actually the leader was the first to go down. I sort of halfway think that I may have gotten him. (break) ERIK SHILLING: When we intercepted these three bombers coming in and my first impression was that they couldn't be Japanese - I just had a hard time convincing myself that they were enemies, they seemed so peaceful and so forth sitting out there, but then as we got closer I could distinguish the markings on them and so we split, there were four of us and two of us on one side and two of us on the other, and then we started making almost simultaneous attacks from each side and as the one guy came in and broke away, then I would be following and break away and by that time the leader on my side, McMillan, was attacking again. So we just kept this up from both sides. The leader went down first and at that time, they had already turned and were going back toward their departure point. The amazing thing to me was, when the leader caught on fire and the smoke was pouring out you could see the flames and I passed almost right over top of him and I could look down and it looked like the airplane was almost red, it was so hot and what impressed me was the fact that these two guys, the wingmen hadn't budged an inch, they were still sticking in there and we sort of broke off shooting at them because we were afraid that the darn thing would eventually explode in our face, so it was after he started going down a little bit and the wing men then closed up and then the �other right wingman was flying on the other one and so he finally was no doubt about it, he was finished. Then the next one started on fire, smoking and finally the third one started and then I broke off first because I only had one gun left that was firing which was a 30 caliber wing gun and it sounded awful lonesome out there and besides they were finished then, so I headed on back to Kunming and I came over and did a barrel roll and all the rest of them did too. It was - it's difficult to really put into words your feeling at that particular moment. You know the adrenaline is going and things have slowed down sort of into slow motion and I guess it's the adrenaline that does that. (break) ERIK SHILLING: On my first pass I figured that I would shoot at the leader because there were only three of them involved and the distance between the leader and the wing man was quite small being in a close formation. So I felt that if I aimed at the leader and let my guns drop back a little bit I could get maybe both of them at the same time. So each pass I made I was at the leader and I think that I probably was the one that got the leader. FRANK BORING: What did you think of the Japanese pilots that you fought against? ERIK SHILLING: The Japanese pilots to me seemed to be extremely disciplined. It's difficult to say because you see a bomber formation - and I never was up against fighters - so a bomber formation and the pilots in that type of formation are a completely different type of man than the fighter pilot. FRANK BORING: What kind of airplanes did you fight against - did the AVG fight against? ERIK SHILLING: We fought against the - what we called - it was a little bit different than the military called them - we called it the I-96 which is a fixed gear airplane, and the I-97 and the Zero. Now we didn't claim any Zeros until about March. We never - in the combat reports they �were never mentioning Zeros being brought down over Rangoon. There was one guy by the name of Donovan, who had been in combat over Rangoon and the Zero was known as a Zeke and the 97 was known as the Oscar. So when he came up against the Zero and I'm convinced that it was a Zero - because he already was in combat against the Oscar. Now in his combat report he went into considerable detail telling about the guns and the type of tactics that he was using and the fact that it was - he even used the correct nomenclature for the Zero that the Japanese - which A6M2 - and he even used the correct nomenclature, which leads me to believe he knew what he was talking about. So it was an entirely different airplane that he had run across over Rangoon. FRANK BORING: Part of the danger in war is not only getting hurt, but also literally getting killed. Amongst the various people that you found didn't make it, who would you say sticks out the most - who affected you the most? ERIK SHILLING: The one person that hit me the hardest was Lacey Mangleburg. We had become extremely close during our training in Toungoo and the fact that he was on the same flight with me and when he tried to belly land his airplane and was killed and that affected me - I felt real bad about it for quite a few months later. I don't suppose it was until after the AVG was over that I really was able to forget about it. FRANK BORING: I'd like to go through a few of the people that you knew. What was your evaluation - or perhaps just look it from a personal point of view during that period of time - of Claire Chennault? ERIK SHILLING: I loved the guy. I loved Chennault. The other guy, Harvey Greenlaw, I think most of us sort of felt that he was somewhat of a buffoon. I had no - not too much respect for him. Just 180 degrees opposite of him. FRANK BORING: Do you have any comments about Greg Boyington? �ERIK SHILLING: Oh Greg I liked very much - when he was sober. He was a belligerent drunk and whenever he had a couple of drinks, at that point I would go to the other side of the room or separate myself, but I liked Greg very much. FRANK BORING: How would you evaluate him though as a pilot? ERIK SHILLING: He was in a different squadron so I really don't know Greg as a pilot, so it would be difficult for me to say - it wouldn't even be second hand because I don't recall anyone talking about Greg as a pilot. FRANK BORING: Why was he discharged - Greg Boyington or Pappy Boyington? ERIK SHILLING: In the AVG, which of course was known as the Flying Tigers, Greg Boyington - we called him Greg - later on when he was with a younger group, they started calling him Pappy, but we always referred to Boyington as Greg and I liked the guy very much although he was a belligerent drunk and every time he had about 2 or 3 drinks he would be wanting or willing to fight anybody in the crowd so I always - just before he got to that point - I'd leave. FRANK BORING: Can you tell us anything about his discharge or his leaving the unit? ERIK SHILLING: I think one of the things that probably caused Greg Boyington to leave was possibly he was somewhat like a maverick like Chennault and I believe that there was a personality clash between the two - this is my opinion, but it could be wrong - and I think that neither one wanted somebody else with such a strong personality and I really don't know the exact circumstances of when he left or what was the crowing blow of why Greg left. But he left I think in about April. FRANK BORING: Your encounter with Clare Boothe Luce? �ERIK SHILLING: I met Clare Booth Luce when I was in Cairo picking up one of the P-40's that I ferried back out to China and it was at the Shepherds? Hotel and she had taken some pictures there and we got to talking and I got to like her quite well. She was a very nice person I thought. When she came to China, it was right after I had made my ferry flight and the first time I saw her, I was in bed sleeping and she came and knocked on the door and said "I'm leaving tomorrow." I didn't have the vaguest idea who it was or anything else, but anyhow I told her to come in, then I found out who it was and the next day she took a bunch of pictures of all the guys and she gave me a complete copy of all the colored pictures she had taken and it developed into quite a nice friendship. I used to visit her all the time later on. - I would be getting into the future - that's why I stopped there. FRANK BORING: If you would let us know about the situation about the AVG toward the end of when you knew that your contracts were running out. There was the - July 4th was approaching. There was a certain amount of dissention in the ranks over morale missions that were being flown and then Bissell arrives and his effect on you. ERIK SHILLING: Toward the end of our contract, Chennault at that time was already in the military and Stillwell was then Commanding Officer and Stillwell was asking for certain missions to be run regardless of whether they were practical or not and on one particular mission that Stillwell wanted us to fly, was a morale booster for the Chinese troops and this mission was supposed to be flown at at least - not more than 1000 feet so the troops in the front lines could recognize the fact that we were friendly airplanes and not the Japanese. That meant that we would have no top cover because all the airplanes would be involved, we would have no warning and our only escape from the Japanese would be to dive away from a fighter, so we did not want to go on such a mission. Now if it were a strafing run to go down and strafe the Japanese in their trenches or wherever they were, there would have been no objection to it, �but to go down and fly - loiter over the front lines - we felt that we would be sitting ducks and I'm sure we would have been. We felt that he was willing to risk our necks to pull his chestnuts out of the fire and we weren't happy with that situation at all. So Chennault of course was under his command then and he had to order us to do what Stillwell wanted. But then, of course we weren't in the military so we didn't want to do it and finally it was resolved by a couple of the guys - quite a few of the guys volunteering for it - but it wasn't very successful and fortunately they weren't jumped. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 7 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes his first taste of battle and his impression of the Japanese pilots and airplanes they fought against. He also describes the loss of Lacy Mangleburg and his impression of General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/35baf8c6485fe6f0e0d331bbd76ae755.mp4 7503000ecf199eadb78a6c07654b5bce https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2116da6cd886dee245d6bd30179eb35d.pdf 9e7f0b5152bcbd6c92ba15dbaaefe910 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] ERIK SHILLING: When we were installing the camera in the P-40 I had made several trips to Rangoon to check with the RAF because we'd gotten the cameras from the RAF and on one of these trips I saw a fantastic, beautiful little airplane called a CW-21 and I wanted to fly it and I talked to Walt Pentecost and he said that he could arrange it. So the next trip down I got to fly the airplane and it was so outstanding. It had a rate of climb of over 5000 feet a minute and compare that to about 2400 feet a minute with the P-40. So I felt that it would be a real good interceptor to shoot down observation planes and I went to Chennault when I returned and talked to him about it and he thought it was a good idea. So later on, the arrangement had been made to buy these things, but at the time I wasn't aware that this arrangement was being made. So that's why we had been ordered to pick up the CW-21's and take them to Kunming. When I was in Toungoo, I knew that I wouldn't be going back down - it was a permanent change of station - so I had a camera and a wind-up gramophone and a bunch of records and all of my clothes and everything else. So I put the record player underneath me and put the records, bundled them up and protected them with clothes and so forth and the baggage compartment was also loaded, so I had everything that I could get into the airplane. Then when we were at Loiwing, as I came back to the airplanes and Lacey's airplane had already been finished refueling and he took off to check his airplane and I wanted to brief him, but when the air raid siren came, we couldn't wait for him and without radio contact I couldn't �tell him that the Japanese were coming in, so I felt that the best thing to do was to get airborne and lead him and get away. So we then departed for Kunming. About an hour into the flight before the engines started backfiring and I thought everything was fine and when the engines started backfiring I started losing speed and I knew that Lacey had no briefing whatsoever, didn't have the vaguest idea what was going on and at that time when I started looking for a field to set down in, I spotted a CNAC airplane that was going - had departed Kunming and was going to our destination - was where we had departed from. So I knew that we were right on course at that time because he couldn't have been too far off. So I felt that if I could get these guys to see the airplane, they would realize that we were okay and if I went down to continue on and they would be in Kunming within a few minutes. So when I turned and headed for - unfortunately the CNAC plane was camouflaged. But anyhow, when I turned to him I didn't even have enough power to catch the airplane and normally the CW would have at least 100 miles an hour on him. So when I was losing ground and I wiggled my wings and pointed, hoping that they could see the airplane, but unknown to me I had already lost Ken as I turned and he was … (break) ERIK SHILLING: So when I pointed to the transport and felt that they had seen the airplane, then I turned around and went back on course to Kunming. It wasn't about 5 minutes later that I didn't even have enough power to maintain my altitude and I started descending and I either had to bail out or belly land and I didn't want to bail out and I spotted a clearing off to the left and I started gliding toward this clearing. The clearing was on the side of a mountain about maybe 1000 feet down below the top and one thing that saved my neck here was the fact that I was over-shooting and I had to dive, try to get into this clearing and the more I dove, the more speed I got. But this - when I got there I was over-shooting so badly, that with the excess speed I was able to parallel the mountain and just mush into the trees and I remember looking at the air speed just as �I hit and it was set at 100 miles an hour. So then when I hit the trees and the airplane started bouncing around and everything, everything went black, although I wasn't unconscious but I was aware of the airplane and the only thought that kept going through my mind was when is this damn thing gonna stop. When it finally came to a stop I jumped out of the airplane without thinking and ran down this slope to this open area and when I got there Lacey Mangleburg was circling and I had mentioned that Lacey, if I have a - I was having engine problems so I said, Lacey if I go down, throw me your gun and he agreed, so as he came over the last time, he had the canopy rolled back and I could see he had his hand over the side and dropped the gun and when the gun went below the top of a mountain in the distance, I lost it. But I could hear it hit in the brush, so I spent about 30 minutes looking for it and I still couldn't find it and it was getting drizzle and colder and I sort of decided I'd go back up to the airplane and when I got there the airplane was the whole ground was flooded with gasoline. So I then decided it would be better to stay away from the airplane for a bit and I stayed underneath another tree there until it got real dark and I started hearing noises in the woods and decided it would be safer to get in the airplane than it was out here underneath this tree. So I spent the night in the tree and I pulled the parachute and I wrapped up in it, trying to keep warm, but anyhow I didn't sleep worth a damn and the next morning I was real thirsty and I started using the leaves off the trees, licking those and trying to get some moisture from them and about this time a native and a little kid about 8 or 9 years old came up the trail. The airplane had come to rest only about 20 miles from this trail and when they got within about 20 or 30 feet from me, it was the first time they sort of noticed my standing there, and they came to an abrupt stop and I had a passport in my pocket and I reached in because it had some Chinese writing on it and I reached in and I guess they thought I was reaching for a gun and they ran. So there I was by myself, but about maybe 45 minutes they came back with maybe 100 or couple of hundred people. One of these guys was a real belligerent ass and he got up close to me and he was talking to me in Chinese and I �didn't know what he was saying and I was trying to answer him in English and I used one word that I knew like "Megwo Ren" means American, but with 400 or so dialects it didn't mean anything to him either. Then I happened to think of this passport again with the Chinese chop there and I reached in and gave it to him and he took it upside down and he was a big shot - so when he took it upside down and he was thumbing through it, I was frustrated and angry and I snatched it away from him and I turned it around and said "Here, you stupid s.o.b." and gave it back to him and everyone there just broke out in laughter and he lost so much face that he disappeared in the crowd. So from that moment on the crowd became more friendly. But he was working them up into a sort of an angry mob and I was really concerned about my life. Anyhow, with him gone, they still built a stockade, cut trees down, built a stockade around the airplane and I was told to stay inside there and they covered the airplane up so it couldn't be seen from above, and this was sort of my first indication that they thought I was maybe Japanese. These people were in such a remote area that they had never seen a Caucasian before and they did know that they were at war with Japan and here I was certainly not a Chinese and I was flying in an airplane with guns and so they put two and two together and got the fact that I was Japanese and my hunch was correct - which I found out later on. But then when they didn't bother me I thought well maybe they're gonna hold me for ransom, because I'd read Terry and the Pirates and stuff like this and so I felt I didn't know when I would get back. But anyhow that night they built a fire and had a kettle and each one of them had a little pouch and they put rice and vegetables and just boiled it in this kettle and they all had rice bowls and they gave me a bowl of rice and I had the only chop sticks amongst the crowd and they cut down some twigs off some trees and used them as chop sticks and these guys were almost Neanderthal types and as they were eating and they'd see my bowl getting a little - they'd suck on the sticks until they were clean and then they'd reach in this thing and give me some more food and that sort of spoiled my appetite. So anyhow, it was late the next day that I saw a distinct change in �their attitude toward me and what happened was that I had landed near a warning net station and the warning net was the last one that had reported me and they told all the natives to be on the lookout for me, that I was fighting for them. So then they built a sedan chair to carry me in and out of part of the parachute and the shroud lines, they put all of my clothes and bundles of stuff wrapped up in the parachute and they took the machine gun ammunition out of the guns and carried that too. So then we started down this trail and in one place - I wanted to walk but they wouldn't let me - it was quite apparent now that it was an honor to carry me. So in some of the gullies, it was a real deep ravine and the first guy would go into the apex of this thing and then they would both back up a little bit and this guy would go out and come around and then he would have to back up for the rear guy to get into the apex, and here I was hanging out over this damn ravine a couple hundred feet down below me and I wanted to walk in the worst kind of way. But the thing was so narrow that I couldn't have gotten out at this point. But anyhow we got to the village late that night and that's when I found out - although the Chinese radio operator couldn't speak English, he had a Chinese/English dictionary and I was able to thumb through that and then he would thumb through it and I got the gist of the fact that yes, they did think I was Japanese. But anyhow we left the next morning and it wasn't until I saw Doc Rich and Ken Merritt that that's when I found out that Lacey had been killed. They both, for some reason or other had - they were within about 5 minutes of Kunming and yet they elected to try to attempt a landing and had they continued on, they would have been able to see the big Lake at Kunming within about 5 minutes. (break) ERIK SHILLING: About the same time that they were building the stockade around me, I decided to start unpacking the airplane and then… (break) ERIK SHILLING: About this time they started building a stockade around the airplane and myself… �(break) ERIK SHILLING: As the natives descended upon me and the airplane, they built a stockade around the airplane and they didn't seem to be very friendly and they even covered up the airplane with some leaves so it couldn't be seen from above and this was sort of my first intimation that I was being taken for Japanese rather than who I was, because they had never seen white people in this area - they were very, very remote and backward at this place. When they were building the stockade, I started taking stuff out of my airplane and when I offloaded my Victrola I decided maybe if I started playing that it would sort of take their mind off me. So fortunately, none of the records were even broken and I just picked one of the records out and it happened to be a record very appropriate to the situation called "High on a Windy Hill" and every time somebody new came up I would have to play this record for them. In those days you had the needle would only last one record, so you can imagine I had very few needles and by the end of the day you could hardly distinguish what was being played, but they would look in there and even feel and wondering what was - were there little men in there or what I don't know. FRANK BORING: After coming back from that incident… (break) ERIK SHILLING: Some people seemed to think and I really don't know - I didn't have what was later on referred to as a blood chit and had I had this blood chit it would have certainly been handy and we were later issued this blood chit which said that we are flying for the Chinese and that if we go down to help them and there would be a reward for helping us to get back to Kunming or the headquarters or notify some Chinese soldiers and so on. So it's possible that this was as a result of that but I don't know. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 6 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes the time he was ordered to pick up CW-21 airplanes and take them to Kunming when his airplane went down in a remote area due to engine problems and he survived among the native people. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a99ae959ccb16420360a0aa1133aaca2.mp4 dcec33cfcd4566c286d3905a0e79370e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d3fb72a68f41095eecb86fa132e721a9.pdf f2b61113bae47e80b0a5518ea10b555d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: If you could explain to us to the best of your knowledge the origin of the Panda Bear? ERIK SHILLING: The three squadrons - the Third Squadron was the Hell's Angels, it was a very shapely girl, red with white wings painted on the side of the fuselage, just forward to the cockpit; the Second Squadron was a panda bear and to the best of my knowledge it was drawn by Bert Christman, who had been a cartoonist who was drawing Scorchy Smith; and the First Squadron was a man chasing a woman superimposed on a large green apple, which was the first pursuit and they were called the Adam and Eve's. The panda bear was of course a symbol of China and the second group felt that that was somehow or other we had to get China in there as well. (break) ERIK SHILLING: The Second Squadron was the panda bear, it was a symbol of China and it was drawn by Bert Christman, who was an artist who had been drawing a comic strip back here in the States by the name of Scorchy Smith. He also did a lot of sketching of different scenes, Burmese people, etc. and I used to see some of them. They were very well done and quite interesting. I often what ever happened to those pictures or drawings that he had made out there. FRANK BORING: One of the things that happened during the training there, was not only damage of airplanes but there were actual fatalities. If you �could describe in terms of your own personal reaction to the deaths themselves, the effect on you, the effect on morale. Realizing the seriousness of what was to come. ERIK SHILLING: Well I was group engineering for a while and whenever we would have these accidents I would have to go along to try to decide or determine what was the cause of the accident. Also Doc Gentry was another one who was on the accident investigation board and we had - I can't remember the sequence now of them - but two most impressive accidents was this Max Hammer, who had gotten caught in one of the real bad thunderstorms we had and one evening after we were all in he didn't show up and it wasn't until later on that night when a native came in and said that this airplane had crashed near his village. So he volunteered to take us to the crash and we didn't get there to the crash until maybe 11 or 12 o'clock at night and after this downpour of rain, everything was flooded and sometimes we were walking up to our knees through water and it was about 3 or 4 miles out into the jungle off the road. When we got there the airplane had crashed practically just straight in because we could tell from the high jungle trees how it had descended. It almost came in vertical. He hit so hard that it looked like about a thousand pound bomb had exploded. The mud and dirt was thrown out, the airplane crushed down upon itself and the wings they were only about this long because they'd crumbled down on to themselves. I know that he didn't know what the heck ever hit him. Then the next accident we had was on a Sunday. (break) ERIK SHILLING: An accident we had was also quite impressive because everyone on the base heard it coming. It was on a Sunday morning and Pete Atkinson was on a test flight. He was the only airplane that was flying that day and he had mentioned to the mechanics on the ground that "I'm gonna wake up the boys in the barracks" so he meant that he was gonna go up and give us a buzz job and I was awake but I was lying on the bunk - trying to keep cool with heat and the first thing I heard was the prop noise of the airplane. Now �the P-40 never had prop noise. In other words, the RPM of the propeller wasn't high enough for the propeller to make the noise, so when this prop noise - it was so unusual that all of us ran out to see what was happening. But before we got out there, we heard this muffled boom and it wasn't until years later that I found out that he possibly - some of the airplane was sonic - and it was a sonic boom that we had actually heard. So what happened was that the airplane just completely disintegrated and part of it - the engine had landed on a rice husk - a mound of rice husks maybe about 40 or 50 feet high, so it was completely intact, so was the propeller, it was all in one piece. Pete Atkinson was thrown out of the airplane. He was still strapped in his seat, so he was unconscious certainly at that time or killed, I don't know. The airplane also landed and when we ran out we could just see parts of the airplane just fluttering down. So the only thing that we could determine was the fact that he had just gone way over red line and of course a red line was 480 miles an hour and he must have been going maybe 50 miles an hour on top of that, I don't know. But perhaps some part of the airplane had flown - a piece had flown open or something and the wind caught in then just disintegrated it. FRANK BORING: What was the effect of these accidents on your fellow pilots or on you? ERIK SHILLING: My own personal feeling of every accident that I've ever heard of, you always wanted to try to find out what happened and mainly although I hate to say this - but you were somewhat relieved when you heard that it was pilot error and the reason I say this is you felt then if it were pilot error, you wouldn't do that. Now if it were something like a malfunction or something like this, then it could happen to you. But every time you heard that it was pilot error, you sort of got hardened to it and felt well hell, I won't do that - it won't happen to me. FRANK BORING: By this time you were all getting fairly proficient in the P-40. A lot of the accidents were not as frequent and you guys were getting �very good at it. Just prior to hearing about Pearl Harbor, what was the mood, what were you feeling like? You were hearing stories of the Japanese were advancing in various areas. What was your mood, you're in an airplane now and you're ready to fight, what's happening? ERIK SHILLING: It was one of excitement really and wondering. Of course we weren't always able to get all of the stories and many of the guys, we had a sort of a newspaper and we'd get this stuff from our local newspaper and then from the newspapers of Burma that were in English. I happened to be in Rangoon at the time, spent the night there and the next day I heard that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and so my thought was my immediate need was to get back to Toungoo and when I got back there, I left very early that morning and Chennault already had dawn to dusk patrol protecting Toungoo, because we had no warning there. The British had an early version of radar at Rangoon, but it was not completely dependable and the range was not too great either, maybe between 50 and 75 miles. So our warning was not too long a time and I guess it - I can't recall anyone remarking about the war at all. We just felt that now we're here and gonna have to do what we originally came for, but now there were other people involved besides us. It was sort of watered down what we would probably be up against. FRANK BORING: What were the following days like? It happened the December 8th your time, but people didn't start to see action until the 20th. What was that period of time like in terms of anticipation? Because you really thought the Japanese were coming. ERIK SHILLING: We went on a photo recon flight. It was Bert Christman, Ed Rector and myself and it was on the photo ship that we had converted - so anyhow we went to Rangoon and then from Rangoon we went to a place called Tavoy. This was on December 10th and Chennault wanted to find out what the disposition was and what to expect and we left Tavoy, climbed up to 26,000 feet and when about 50 miles �out I took over the lead and then Bert and Ed dropped back about 500 feet and 700 feet above me to protect me because I was busy directing the camera and getting the airplane set right over the top of the target and I couldn't be looking around for Japanese incoming. So I first took a picture along the whole dock of Bangkok, taking pictures of whatever ships were in the harbor and then from there I turned north and went to the airport there called Don Muang and in the photo there were 92 airplanes almost wing tip to wing tip. They'd moved in that fast by December 10th and one of the things - I had to rock the airplane up to knife edge because you're sitting right over the top of the wing and to get to position the airplane you had to go knife edge to get the airplane and then I would start the picture going and it was automatic then and then when you finished your photo run, you'd turn it off. What happened was on this knife edge the oil pump was uncovered and it started pumping air, consequently the oil pressure went down to zero, but while I was doing this I wasn't aware of it, so then when I turned and started back to Rangoon, I looked down and the oil pressure gauge was on zero and I thought what the - a hell of a way to start a war, that I would wind up already as a prisoner of war. But then the oil pressure started fluctuating and my heart rate went down as the pressure went up and it finally went back to normal. So I started a descent and we were indicating about 400 miles an hour, so the Japanese would never be able to catch us and we wound up back over the coast at about 10,000 feet and went on in to Rangoon and there the pictures were developed by the RAF and it showed the Jap airplanes by that time. We couldn't tell how many were in the hangars but there were quite a few hangars there too, so the hangars very possibly were also full. FRANK BORING: Did you ever have a chance to talk to Chennault about - did you actually sit down with him and go over these photographs with him or did he pretty much take them off to the side? �ERIK SHILLING: No, they were taken over sort of by Harvey Greenlaw and some other of the staff. No I didn't get to talk to him about the photographs at all after I brought them back. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to seeing all those Japanese planes all in a row? ERIK SHILLING: Just wishing that we had a bomber, because what a setup it would have been if we just had a few B-25's at that time. Of course the British had the Blenheim's and they were antiquated bombers at that time, very slow. So we were just wishing we'd had bombers. (break) ERIK SHILLING: After I turned north to photograph the airport at Don Muang, the weather was extremely clear and you could see maybe 75 miles, so it was easy to distinguish stuff on the ground and I could see that all these bombers which were verified in the photos later on, there were 92 of them. Of course at that time I didn't count them, but they were just parked wing tip to wing tip and I was just wished instead of being in a fighter, that's the only time I ever wished I'd been in a bomber. If we could drop a couple of bombs right in the middle of that thing, it would have made our job later on much easier. FRANK BORING: After this period of time you were transferred to Third Squadron. ERIK SHILLING: After the photo mission I had requested to go with the Third Squadron and fortunately it was accepted and so I went down to Rangoon when the Third Squadron was ordered down and while we were there, we went on a couple of false alarms and then on the 22nd I got word that the CW-21's that I had to Chennault about and had flown, had been purchased by the Chinese and three of us were to fly the CW-21's to Kunming. So on the 23rd we left just about daylight and flew from Rangoon to Toungoo and we had to have some maintenance work done on them and also some long-range �tanks installed. They were long-range droppable wing tanks. So we left - and the Japanese hit Rangoon at about 10:30, so we fortunately got out of Rangoon before the Japanese hit us on the 23rd. Then when they were working on the CW-21's is when we heard that Rangoon had been hit. Then we felt that we had to get out of Toungoo as well because Toungoo had no warning net at all. So after the tanks were finished and installed, and the few things that we could do there, we left. But we didn't have any radios in the airplanes because all of the radios would have to wait because they'd been taken to Kunming. So we took off from Lashio - I mean Toungoo for Lashio, which is about 150 miles north of Toungoo and on the way to Lashio, my engine backfired a couple of times and so when we landed at Lashio one of our crew chiefs, a fellow by the name of George Bailey, happened to meet the airplane and I talked it over with him about the backfiring and we came to a sort of mutual conclusion - the airplane should have used what we called 80-87 octane fuel and the P-40's needed 100-115 octane fuel and the higher octane can burn the exhaust valves and with the higher heat it also sometimes the exhaust valves would stick and that's what caused the backfiring. So we decided to drain the high octane fuel out and put in the fuel that was required and also there were no maps available for the hump trip to Kunming and I felt that possibly we could get the maps in Lashio. Well when I got there another disappointment, they didn't have maps there either. So the only maps that we had for this flight was a pencil drawing of the route and it showed Lashio and it showed Kunming 330 miles and a heading of about 60 degrees and then there was a line that went up like this and then on back down - that represented the Burma Road and then there were a couple of lines that were rivers and that was all we had to navigate with. Now I had been to Kunming once before, but that was on top of an overcast, so I didn't get to see very much of it. So when - Lacey was the first airplane to be defueled and refueled and when Ken Merritt's airplane was finished they had come over to mine and about this time, Lacey had taken off. Now I didn't know that he was gonna take off, I thought he was going down to the end of the runway and �check his mags and stuff and see how the fuel was doing, so he took off and I was really disappointed because without the maps now I knew that I would have to brief them as much as I could about the trip. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 5 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses the origin of the Panda Bear representing the Second Squadron, in addition to his personal reaction to the fatalities among the pilots and the photo reconnaissance flight he took with Bert Christman and Ed Rector. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d16cbfa5c6474bef5e4a46082ee1025e.mp4 bf06fc6e5fd63279bcfd19f879294419 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99f788a20d8d929fc27b544b1337f379.pdf 979ec67dd6e35a40b9bc5e20aa76091c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: We're gonna start off with why you think Chennault asked you to be in this dogfight and if it is applicable, the incident in which you lost the engine - you said you were losing an engine - if you could go into detail about that. Why do you think Chennault asked you to be in the dogfight against the RAF? ERIK SHILLING: I hate to say this, but I think I was pretty good. I think that the roll that I did impressed Chennault. (break) ERIK SHILLING: I think the reason Chennault may have asked me to dogfight the pilot in the Brewster Buffalo was - possibly three different things. One, was I had been in a dogfight with Frank Schiel and I had gotten on Frank's tail and he had gotten into an unusual position and couldn't get out and he had to bail out of the airplane, so Chennault knew that I'd won that combat and then the other thing was my first flight in the P-40 I'd taken off and climbed up through a fairly thin overcast - the overcast was about 6000 feet high and it was only about 1000 feet thick - and I just climbed up through it and when I got to about 10,000 feet, just all hell broke loose, the airplane started shaking and the smoke was filling the cockpit, so I reached down and I turned the gas off and the switches off and everything I could think of to turn off, and I knew that being on top of the overcast, but I knew that I had just climbed up through so I reversed my course and dove down through it so I wouldn't get too �far away, because there were mountains on both sides of Toungoo - fairly high. So I dove down through this overcast and about 3 or 4 miles ahead of me I was headed right toward the airport going about 90 degrees to the runway and as I came over the field, of course it was still smoking and oil was pouring out of it and I guess everyone on the field was aware that I was having a problem, and with the excess speed I was able to make a regular pattern and come in and land. When I landed there was a high speed taxi way that led up to the maintenance hangar and I still had enough speed to go up there and I parked the airplane without any engine right in front of the hangar so they could work on it. So a lot of the guys were sort of - mainly the ground crew were rather impressed about that particular flight. FRANK BORING: During the dogfight itself, if you could give us some idea of what actually happened in the dogfight. ERIK SHILLING: In a dogfight, what you try to do of course is get the most out of your airplane and that is - verges on uncontrollable. In other words, at one stage as you're pulling into a real tight turn, if you go a little bit too far, then you've lost it and you stall and you lose ground or you might even lose altitude. So it's a matter of real fine touch with your airplane and getting the utmost from it. The other thing that I used to do was to turn in a circle from here to a sort of a 45 degree angle and then up at the top of the turn, I would purposely stall the airplane and try to snap roll it and cut diagonally across the circle and I would continue each time and I would cut it and chew off a little bit more of the circle until I finally got around. Once you're sort of on the guy's tail, then it's easier because any mistake he makes - and he's going to be doing his best - so then all you have to do is just stay in there. So consequently, once you're on his tail you've got it made and it's just a matter of just gradually working around. But it's getting on the other guy's tail that both of you are trying your best. Then when you get there, you're trying to wait for the other guy to make a mistake and from then on, as I say, you've got it made. One of the things that he did try to do, was he dumped �his gear and threw his flaps down trying to get me to overrun, but what I did instead of overrunning, I just pulled up high enough, got some altitude to see what he was gonna do and then when he decided what to do, I was back down on his tail. FRANK BORING: When you finally landed, did you get a chance to talk to him, did you guys discuss the thing? ERIK SHILLING: No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him. I wish I could have. I talked to him before we had the combat because we had to arrange certain things like how we were going to conduct it and stuff like this, but after the dogfight I didn't get to talk to him. FRANK BORING: You made a statement earlier that the main thing that he had going against him was the Brewster Buffalo, so could you give us some idea of your evaluation of the Brewster Buffalo? ERIK SHILLING: The Buffalo didn't have top speed. Its speed was maybe within 5 miles of the Zero and maybe had 10 miles on the Oscar, the Oscar is the Nakajima and a Zeke is a Zero. So it had maybe 10 miles on the Oscar and maybe 2 or 3 miles on the Zero. It could not out turn either one of them, nor could we, but it couldn't dive because the big built-in head wind, the radial engine, its diveability was not anywhere near the P-40 nor would it accelerate in the dive although the 40 was heavy, it was clean and it would pick up speed very rapidly. So those guys both in the Hurricane and in the Buffalo really didn't have much of a chance. I really felt sorry for the guys because later on when they started being shot down, I don't know what I would have done had I been in their shoes. FRANK BORING: You also said the RAF was sort of forced dogfight because of the [?]. ERIK SHILLING: The RAF, when they were fighting against the Japanese, were more or less forced into dogfight - if you don't have speed on the other plane, then you have to rely on the dogfight because you �can't escape, so you're then at their mercy and so your only alternative then is to dogfight and try to turn in the best you can and it's just a losing battle really when it comes right down to it. The only time that they would really - I feel - shoot down any of the airplanes was if they happened to have altitude which would give them speed and surprise. I think that most of their victories were because of surprise, not the fact that the Japanese had seen them at about the same time. If that occurred, why then they had a problem. FRANK BORING: During this period of time of training… (break) FRANK BORING: Give us the reaction of the guys when you landed. ERIK SHILLING: Some of the guys remarked at the time that they thought that Squadron Leader Brandt had made a couple of mistakes and another guy said that he thought that he didn't approach the combat like a Tiger and my feeling and comment would be that first of all I don't think he made any mistakes, because from my position up there, I thought that his only mistake was the fact that he was in a Brewster Buffalo and not in a P-40. Had we both been in P-40's, he could have - I don't know - I don't think he could have beat me, but possibly. He would have had a better chance. Then the other thing was, how can you be a Tiger when you're flying what I consider a wet noodle. He was not by any means a neophyte. As I said, he also had been an ace before he came out there in the Battle of Britain, so he knew what combat was about. FRANK BORING: During this period of time of training I understand that a lot of these men had never flown a P-40 before and they have different characteristics. If you can give us the perspective, give us an idea of you, yourself being there, you got a chance to fly and you did fairly well in it, but give us an evaluation, your perspective of the training of these other people. There were a lot of crashes, �Chennault at one point got very upset and grounded everybody, we need to get a better perspective of that. ERIK SHILLING: I really don't understand why some of these guys had problems with the P-40. But the problems that they did have was leveling off too high and that could have been a carry-over from flying boats which are setting up much higher and the other thing was why they were over-shooting - that might stem from an Eagle thing because many pilots when they come in high and overshoot, hesitate to go around, which they should. Lots of times a guy would run off the end of the runway because he was hesitant to go around. So I suggested to Chennault to paint a white line on each approach end about 600 meters in or so and get the guys that if they didn't have the wheels on the ground and under control at that point, that they should go around. And Chennault instilled us - now some of the guys were a little bit angry at first about my suggesting this, I don't know whether they knew that it was from me or not, but they weren't too happy about being treated as kindergarten in the airplane - but it worked. So they stopped overshooting and running off the end of the runway. One particular fellow - and this is sometimes the type of accidents that would happen - one guy, as he was taxiing in started filling out his log book - he knows who he is, but I won't mention it - and ran into a ditch and of course nosed up and got the propeller. So these things were extremely frustrating for Chennault. Another time one of the mechanics was driving along, riding his bike, going pretty fast and watching an airplane come in for a landing and ran into the aileron and damaged the aileron, so that airplane was out of commission for about a week while they were repairing the aileron. Of course he cracked a couple of ribs and so forth and he was sore, but Chennault was even sorer yet. I sort of wonder if any lesser man had these problems that he had, I would almost think that he would throw up his hands and say I quit. I think I would have. FRANK BORING: To give us a better perspective of why he was so frustrated, could you give us a better idea of the supply situation at the time? When �an airplane would turn over like that or a propeller would be damaged, why didn't you just call up the Sears and Roebuck and have them bring one down? ERIK SHILLING Our supply line was at the very end. We were just about half way around the world from either way. One example - we had two big problems - one example was tires. We were wearing the tires out and we even went to the extreme of trying to glue with rubber cement some cups on it to try to pre-rotate the wheel before touchdown so it wouldn't wear the tires out as badly. We were flying with even the cords showing on it. Although I don't believe any of them ever blew out a tire, but that was just good luck. The other was that we also started having spark plug problems and a Pan American Clipper had a full load of tires and it was turned around because of Pearl Harbor and so that had to be turned around and then those same tires had to come across Africa and India to get to us. So we had a real problem - another thing we had a problem with the guns - the guns were a different caliber and some of the ammunition was a problem. In other words, one of the things that we had was - if you charged the guns, once it had been charged and you re-charged it, which a lot of times we would originally do, the ammunition would be hot and sometimes it would sit there and cook off - cook off means that it would get so hot that it would explode and the bullet would go out and sometimes this would hit your own propeller. So lots of times you would re-charge it before this would happen to keep a cool bullet or shell in there and what happened on quite a number of cases was that the crimping on the projectile wasn't good so when it went in and you pulled the shell back out, it would leave the projectile in there and then the next shell that went home wouldn't seat and so that gun would be out of commission. So finally it got to the point that we would not attempt to charge them. Although we did get a couple of our airplanes had bullet holes from their own gun in the propeller. �FRANK BORING: During this period of time with the training, you weren't always training, there was other activities going on. As a pilot you only had so many pilots to so many airplanes. During this period of time you came up with the names of the squadrons and also distinctive markings on the airplanes. I wonder if you could go into an explanation of how the squadron names came up and how the design came up and some of the distinctive markings? ERIK SHILLING: The squadron insignias - at the time when we were developing those, I was with the Second Squadron for a short period of time and we didn't have a squadron insignia and I had been along with Ken Merritt and Lacey Mangleburg, we had been to a dinner at a Reverend Kline and on there he had a Sunday supplement and in the Sunday supplement there was a picture of a Messerschmitt 110 and they had what I call the rotogravure section, it was a sepia colored picture just photographs. Now apparently Charlie Mott was there - I mean Charlie Bond and several of the other guys were there too. But anyhow the next day I went out to the airfield along with Lacey and Ken, we'd stopped by the lecture hall and I'd picked up a piece of chalk and being the only artist in the crowd, I drew the shark's teeth on the airplane and I went to Chennault and asked him if we could use that as a squadron insignia and his answer was that he would rather have it as a group insignia. I understand - of course there were quite a few of the guys there looking at these shark's teeth airplanes, so there were other guys who very possibly were doing the same thing at the same time. So I don't really know who really was the first. I know that I did that, that morning and possibly some of the other guys did it too. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 4 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses dogfighting for General Chennault and the training the AVG experienced at the time, in addition to how the squadron insignias came into existence. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94c1dfd1930f3e3685a2c71f41f3550e.mp4 1ee7e0cd962c12c65e2cd9411ea49649 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c514e1682871e1a210d036de9f733eae.pdf 7c0b9d5b3e41bf372be284d607b230fc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] ERIK SHILLING: During - I don't know who it was, but someone arranged for a man and woman, Burmese, to give a demonstration and a show with some snakes and they had some real long King Cobras and so on and she would - one of the things that she did was - to us most impressive - was to put her hands behind her back and lean way over and actually kiss the head of this cobra. So the other thing that impressed me though was how they knew how to handle the cobras and for instance, when the cobra was up like this, when it would start to strike it seemed like all they had to do was touch the snake on its belly and it would withdraw to maybe strike again. The other thing they would do - the same thing when they were standing they could put their toe of their foot to the side and touch the snake on its belly and the snake would also stop. FRANK BORING: If you could give us a clearer picture of the conditions in Toungoo at the time? ERIK SHILLING: Another thing which is most impressive was the frequency which many of us were plagued with diarrhea or dysentery and the toilets were separate from the main barracks there and there were only about 4 of them for each barracks and sometimes when dysentery would hit, they of course were completely full, so then you would have to revert to the jungle, which was not too far away from our barracks and we were always plagued with dysentery, the whole time I was out there. Although the medical group always tried to �do the best they could in purifying the water and seeing that our food was the best, but then many of us would go to town and have drinks at the railway station there or other places and most Americans always insist on ice anyhow, so lots of times the water we got away from the base was probably the contaminating part that caused this diarrhea. And then of course the change of diet and things like this. The food wasn't the greatest. One of the humorous parts about it was that we used to put ketchup on practically everything and believe me, it must be real bad when you're putting ketchup on cauliflower to disguise the damn taste. But that's how bad - how much the guys would do to make the food a little bit more palatable. Of course our meat was water buffalo and it was really tough. It made a man turn vegetarian - but then the vegetables weren't cooked too good either. FRANK BORING: How about the weather and just the general conditions of your daily life in terms of your clothes and washing? ERIK SHILLING: We all had problems with dampness and what we had was all of our dressers had a light bulb in them. If you didn't put your stuff in there, you would have mold overnight. But our bed sheets were always sort of damp and of course it was pretty hot and humid and then when the monsoons hit, the downpour would just be unbelievable. We'd never seen anything like it and sometimes you'd have 24 inches in 24 hours or stuff like that and that's when these ditches would be overcome and couldn't carry off all the water. A couple of times some of the monsoons caused some of the guys’ accidents. One in particular, a fellow by the name of Max Hammer went in and I guess lost control in the middle of a thunderstorm and was killed. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to all this? You had a certain anticipation of getting there, you had a job to do, what was your reaction to all this? �ERIK SHILLING: Really, the whole thing was so doggone interesting that it was really - I was afraid of missing something, so I was always looking around for the brighter side of life I guess, because I didn't want to miss anything. To the most part, it was really a lot of fun, I mean the excitement and the experience was something that I had never run across. Here we were being paid and when you get a group of guys like this, even a multi-millionaire can't duplicate it. In other words, you can go on a trip or something like this, but you don't have a bunch of guys all interested in the same thing and have the comradery that develops in situations like this, so it's for the most part, a very pleasant experience, coupled with some difficult situations and some people who were killed. You felt bad about it, but the excitement of the thing was the foremost. FRANK BORING: Let's now get into the formal duties that you were going - you were now being trained in an airplane that you'd never flown before. You were at this time getting classes in tactics, could you give us an idea of the early days when you first got there and began your training? What was it like and what were you actually doing? ERIK SHILLING: When I first got to Toungoo actually it was an RAF base… (break) ERIK SHILLING: When I first got to Toungoo it was a city - or little village and it was an RAF training camp called Keydaw and that's where Chennault had arranged to have us housed and the use of the airfield there. The field was about 4000 foot macadam strip and one hangar and then there were some buildings that he used for lecture hall - this was on the other side of where our barracks were and then when we first got there, there was only one P-40 so we didn't do any flying until - and there were some P-40's in Rangoon ready to come up, but we had to get some pilots available to fly them. So the guys who had flown P-40's before got a brief checkout and then were sent down to Rangoon to ferry the P-40's up and then as each guy got checked out they would be sent down �to pick up the airplanes too. When we first got there Chennault was not there, when I first arrived, he came down later on. My first meeting with Chennault - I had been to Rangoon picking up a P-40 and on Sunday I came back and I went up to about 16 - 18 thousand feet and I dove down and they were playing softball and I went over the softball maybe about 50 feet off the ground doing red line speed which was 480 miles an hour and I pulled it up and did a vertical roll and then went on in and landed. When I landed the mechanics that met me said Chennault got in last night and I said "Oh my God" and so - because of lack of transportation, we'd all gone into town earlier of course and bought bicycles and now most of us had bicycles and we rode all over the place on them - so I jumped on my bike and got to the baseball field and Chennault was pitching - he used to like to pitch - and so I stood on the sidelines waiting to get my butt chewed and when he retired the side he came right directly toward me and it was a big surprise - he says "That was a nice roll Shilling." So from then on, that guy was - I loved him. FRANK BORING: Once he arrived there, did he begin the courses? And if he did, can you give us an idea of what it was like to be in one of his classes? ERIK SHILLING: Not too long after we got there, he started his lecture series… (break) ERIK SHILLING: Not too much longer after we got to Toungoo and Chennault came down from Kunming, where he had been, he started a lecture series about the Japanese, the people of Japan as well and the background of the Japanese people and the airplanes, each individual airplane, what we could expect from each airplane, what we could expect from the pilots and how they were somewhat regimented, but occasionally they would go off on a tangent. I used to enjoy his lectures because he was a good speaker, good lecturer. They were always so terribly interesting and especially the way he presented them. It was almost like everything that he told us, like he was �there, an eyewitness account of everything that came about. Like he would tell us about where the guns were on specific airplanes, the size of the guns, and how fast the airplanes were, and what to expect from this kind of airplane, and where was the best way to attack for the least vulnerability to us, and their most vulnerable spot, and what to expect from the Japanese fighters. The main thing that came out of the whole thing was that it was a very simple tactic and it was so simple I think some of the guys even may have forgotten that it was a tactic, but that was don't ever turn with the enemy. You couldn't turn or try to dog fight. FRANK BORING: I'd like you to explain in a little more detail why that was such a major tactical move. If you could explain in just a little more detail about when somebody gets on your tail what you're supposed to do. ERIK SHILLING: One of the things that - I'll tell you a little bit about bombers and how to attack them and the one bomber that we were up against only had a single gun and what Chennault called a dustbin, it wasn't a turret, but it was mounted on springs or on rubber and the turret gunner would aim that gun with a rudder, sort of a rudder pedal and get it in toward the attacking plane and the springs would spray that area. It wasn't very effective and of course that's where we used to attack it. Now possibly you may have seen occasionally where you see a camera gun, a ship coming in against a fighter and it looks like the bomber is upside down. Now what has happened is that the bomber isn't upside down, the fighter is. So as you come in underneath and you're coming up on it, you want to continue shooting as long as you possibly can. So you roll inverted and you keep shooting and then before you hit him, why you pull away. Then you go back out and climb up and then do this kind of thing, because that's the most vulnerable spot on most of the bombers. I've seen camera gunships that it looks like the bomber was upside down. Then the other thing was the fact that the Japanese fighter planes were, what a lot of people here called maneuverable. That means that they had a very small turning �radius and they could turn inside the P-40 but the P-40 had a higher roll rate and higher diving speed and higher level speed, so when we got into a bad situation, we would roll and dive away from them, but we never attempted to turn with them, because they could turn inside of us and get us. This was the mistake that the military through all of the different theaters down off of Australia and New Guinea were under the impression that that's the only way to fight, was to dogfight and a dogfight of course was a turning circle. They were still doing that late in 1942 and we had been told this before 1942 started - 3 or 4 months before Pearl Harbor. It wasn't a matter of formation flying or two ships or three ships, which a lot of people consider to be tactics, but it was the fact that not to do something dumb like trying to dogfight with them. FRANK BORING: What did you know when you were in the States about the Japanese pilots and their planes? ERIK SHILLING: When I was in the military in the States, and this was the pitiful part of the whole thing, I didn't have the vaguest idea about the Japanese, the Japanese airplanes or what Japan was flying. Although as I understand it, Chennault had sent many, many reports to the Pentagon, but they never came down to the people who would need the information the most, and that was the everyday, run-of-the-mill pursuit pilot. It just was criminal that this information wasn't passed down. There are thousands of men who lost their lives because they didn't have the same information that we did. FRANK BORING: At this time you were going through what Chennault called "Kindergarten" as I understand it. There was some doubt and discussion among some of the pilots that the P-40 that you were flying really was not going to be that effective against the Japanese and that the British, for example, had an airplane that was far superior to the P-40. I wonder if you could give us some �background on that discussion and then how it was eventually resolved amongst the AVG? ERIK SHILLING: There were a group of the Navy guys who, for some reason or other, thought that the Brewster Buffalo was a better airplane than the P-40. They were RAF fellows who were based in Rangoon and so Chennault arranged to try to dispel this fact that the P-40 was not as good as a Brewster Buffalo, both airplanes were American of course, and so he arranged a dogfight with a fellow - I can remember his name even today, Squadron Leader Brandt. He had been sent from England after the Battle of Britain, sort of a rest and recreation thing to Rangoon. He also was an ace against the German 109's and had shot down more than 5 German airplanes at that time, so he was no neophyte, he'd been in combat before. So I was chosen by Chennault to dogfight this guy, so we went up over Toungoo and the British had brought up a bunch of other people. Their "Wheels" Air Marshall so-and-so and I forgot his name, but anyhow, we went up and went up to about 10,000 feet and we broke off and the common way that we used to dogfight was we'd separate and then come head-on toward one another and when our wing tips passed, we would pull up into a tight turn, tight as you could get and we'd start going around and try to get on the other guy's tail or in a position that, had you had guns or were playing for keeps, you could shoot him and it took some lead. Now some of the fellows thought that this guy in the Brewster Buffalo had made some mistakes and then there were others who thought that he wasn't much of a Tiger and my personal opinion was, of course, I was up there closer to the whole damn thing. I thought that the only mistake he had made was being in the Brewster Buffalo and not in the P-40. The other thing was I also felt after reading this article from one of the fellows in his book, that it's damn difficult to be a Tiger in a wet noodle. So as I say, the only mistake he made was being in a Buffalo and I easily beat him. So the fact was that there was no question about pilot ability really when it came right down to it. I was just in a better airplane. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 3 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes the conditions in Toungoo at the time, in addition to the meaningful experience he had as a part of the AVG and working with General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e0abe70ec8d7bf8f098079d74b9ceb23.mp4 b408d5b54d5f158d4268c7a37f3dec20 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9662dcd0daf0c1a74792eb12d6a755f2.pdf 6c1be5abb104d96a20269a91812005c8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: What did you know about China before you actually went out there? ERIK SHILLING: What I knew about China at that time was only what I'd seen in the newsreels and it was showing what was commonly called the Rape of Nanking and the atrocities that had been done on the children and the women and the bayoneting of them and one picture stands out in my mind most of all was this little kid, maybe 9 months or a year old sitting in the middle of this devastated railroad station, just crying up a storm. It looked like the little kid had been burned or something like that and my heart went out for him and the other people that were suffering. So this was another reason why I went over there, was because how I felt and I wanted to do something about it. FRANK BORING: In San Francisco or even before that, what were you told about how much you could talk about your mission? I mean the secrecy involved. ERIK SHILLING: When I left New York I wasn't aware I was being even considered so I didn't really - wasn't given any secrecy, but I assumed that we shouldn't talk about it. It wasn't until we got to really Los Angeles and San Francisco and also when I got my passport and my passport didn't say pilot, it said an accountant. As I say, I even have problems balancing my checkbook today. So that was the �worst scenario that you could have. But other guys had such as farmers and so on, so I knew that we were going over under cover and that we were told that we should not talk about it of course, our own safety being involved. But it was no secret to the Japanese, it was secret to everybody but them I suppose. I don't know how they found out about it. The Japanese as I say - on the boat we found out that they knew who we were and why we were going over. They said that they were not gonna let the boat get there. Of course the Dutch boat was belligerent at that time. I found out later on that there were about 5 German U-boats out there and it was very likely that we could have been sunk by these German U-boats and quite a number of times as we went over, we would stop and the two cruisers would catapult a scout plane off and they would be gone a couple of hours and come back and they would do the same thing. So occasionally we would lay in the water just dead still for almost a full day. Then in the evening they would bring these sea planes back up onto the catapult and stow them and then we'd be on our way again. What was the trip over like? What type of things did you do for recreation? What kind of camaraderie developed? ERIK SHILLING: The Navy had played a game called Acey-Deucy which was a lot of fun and all of the games could be a gambling game, but I wasn't much into gambling so I didn't play any poker. There was another game that was quite popular, cribbage, which was a lot of fun and took a lot of skill, the same thing acey-deucy really takes some skill. Then there was shuffle board that we played sometimes. Then when the bar was open, we'd go in the bar and shoot the breeze and talk about flying and what we might be up against, and spend the rest of the evening in the bar. Incidentally, we ran out of whiskey - out of all drinks before we got to Singapore and then when we got to Singapore, fortunately the Captain of the ship restocked the bar, so we had enough to last us until we got to Rangoon. �FRANK BORING: What were the fellow passengers like and how did you get along with the people who were on board? ERIK SHILLING: They all were real nice people for the most part. There were a couple who I sort of wondered about, and some of them quit early before the war started. I hesitate to say who I didn't particularly like, but there were only two or three that were that caliber. The rest were real nice guys. FRANK BORING: I guess I'm looking at the passengers that weren't AVG. As I understand there were missionaries on board. We've heard a number of stories about different things that happened. I was wondering what your perspective was? ERIK SHILLING: I don't know why, but I didn't get involved or get to talk to them very much. Some of the other guys did, but I really can't recall holding a conversation with them for too long a period of time. FRANK BORING: There was this battle of the music going on. ERIK SHILLING: Well R. T. Smith and Red and - I've forgotten now - but there about 5 or 6 of them that used to harmonize and of course the more they drank the more they became unharmonizing, but it was always fun to listen to them. One of the favorites was of course "Down by the Old Mill Stream" and stuff like that. Barbershop type harmony. FRANK BORING: On the trip over did you have a chance to get on land and go explore some of the other areas? ERIK SHILLING: No. Our ship, although it anchored overnight at Batavia and Jakarta, we didn't get ashore until we got to Singapore and were only about 24 hours there at Singapore, where incidentally, one of the guys missed the boat and he was - the dock area at Singapore is a great big long dock and probably even a mile long - and he got to the dock just as we were throwing the ropes off and we were �already away from the pier, so this guy was running and hollering and jumping up and down the whole length of this dock, for this great big boat to stop for him. But anyhow apparently the harbor police saw him and the boat that went out and got the harbor police and brought him back, picked him up at the end of the pier and put him on board and so he actually made the boat, but he was afraid that he wasn't. So it was sort of funny because he was running and yelling and all that. (break) ERIK SHILLING: One of the guys - and for the life of me I can't remember what I had done to him or what I'd said to him or anything else - but anyhow he threatened to sabotage my airplane when I got out there. He was an ex-Navy guy - this same guy later on when I buzzed Loiwing at the time, he lost his glasses and stepped on them and he had to be restrained from committing murder, I guess. But then there were a couple of pilots but they were immature type of people. I felt that they were sort of like the "Ugly American" and they were irresponsible and not people who I would particularly like to be in the air and have to rely on them. So it was that type of guys that I didn't sort of cotton up to. FRANK BORING: Did you think of yourselves as soldiers of fortune or mercenaries? ERIK SHILLING: No, never did I think as a soldier of fortune. My own impression of a soldier of fortune was sort of a run-of-the-mill type who was out in the Far East or in some of these exotic places and would do anything for a buck and jump on any opportunity. We, I felt were there to do a job and the fact that we were getting better pay, I would never have gone for the pay, although it was a welcome thing. But no one in his right mind I think would go out there and let somebody shoot at them for 5 or 6 hundred bucks a month. It was the experience and the fact that I was helping my own self for later survival, the main reason why I went. �FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Rangoon, that was the first time you really had an opportunity to get off the ship and get an opportunity to see the exotic east. From what you had anticipated seeing, what did you actually find when you got off the boat in Rangoon? ERIK SHILLING: Well just before we got off the boat, we stayed overnight, we arrived too late in the evening, so we couldn't clear customs and the boat was anchored in the middle of the Rangoon River. The next morning a boat came out and there was a guy standing somewhat sort of in the bow of the boat with a pith helmet and a bush jacket and a swagger stick and looked like he just stepped off a movie set. It turned out to be a guy by the name of Boatner Carney. I liked the guy, but he just - he looked British but he wasn't and anyhow he brought the customs and immigration people and we all cleared on the boat and then when we went ashore, we were all taken to the Silver Grill, where we had dinner and from there we were herded down to the railway station. We got on the train there and they had to - because there were 125 of us - they had to reserve a couple of trains and of course those trains - first class there was not even as good as any class here in the States, rather primitive, much older trains than we had. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of what your first impressions were? What was the weather like? What was the scenery that you saw around you? ERIK SHILLING: The most impressive thing - and it may sound silly - but the most impressive thing was these gobs of red stuff and we found out later on it was the natives all chewed betel and they would spit this red stuff out - it almost looked like blood - gobs of blood all over the street. I had been to Mexico once before and down in Monterey, so it wasn't the first time I'd been overseas and I didn't - the main thing that impressed me also was the fact of the coolies and rickshaw boys and how they would run and run and run and perspiring. I didn't particularly like to see - but that was their living. But I didn't like to see a human being having to subjugate himself like myself and do physical labor, like pulling these darn �rickshaws and I sort of felt sorry for them. But as I say, I knew that that was the way they made their living. But that also impressed me quite a bit, that here these people, how some of them had to make a living. Then of course as we went up on the train, we then could see a lot of the rice fields that were being planted. Then not too much later, why it got so dark that we couldn't see. But how people had to scratch for a living was the most impressive part of that whole thing. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived - is this the base at Toungoo that you finally got to - what was your immediate impression of - you'd been anticipating coming here for a long time, you had the whole time on the ship to think about it - what did you actually find when you got to Toungoo? ERIK SHILLING: Possibly I was philosophical about the whole thing and I really wasn't as disappointed as some of the other guys, although I was impressed or unimpressed - whichever you might say - the things that impressed me the most was for instance the gravel road, and as we went by we saw one single hangar there that they had to work in and the fact that alongside of all of the roads was big deep ditches filled with gravel and we found out that this was because of the heavy monsoons it was to carry the heavy rains off, and at times even these big ditches wouldn't carry it all off. Even the airfield itself had these same ditches, but much, much bigger all around to try to drain during the monsoon rains. Then of course as we rounded the end of the runway and came back toward our barracks, the barracks were - I enjoyed it - but it left a lot to be desired. I remember one thing that we used to have a lot of different kind of insects and it was always a constant fight with the ants and we would try to tie our cookies or whatever we had and try to thwart the ants and they were the cleverest darn things. They would go down this wire and I don't know how the heck they managed to do it, but there was always a constant battle against ants getting into your stuff. We'd put the chifforobes on cans of oil and they would drop down from the ceiling - all sorts of very �clever - these damned ants. Then of course there were other big bugs, huge darn things and leeches and centipedes. Some of those centipedes were huge. One of the guys, he was putting his shirt on and he'd gotten his left arm in and he was putting this on and a doggone thing dropped down from the rafters just as he brought his shirt up and it got on his back and man, he was yelling and screaming and getting out of his clothes in a hurry. But they were painful, they had some sort of acid and they would make horrible looking welts and then they would get into scabs and so on. Then they had some ants that would excrete some sort of acid and that would be extremely painful. One of the guys by the name of Fred Hodges, we used to call him "Fearless Freddie" because he was definitely afraid of bugs and we had fans in our mess hall and it had netting to keep the bugs out but they would still get in. I'll never forget one time he came into the mess hall and this huge bug was buzzing around like a B-36 practically, low pitched thing, and it got into the fan and the fan whipped it around and threw it down on Freddie Hodges' neck and he went out the door without even opening it, he went right through the screen. So from that moment on we always called him "Fearless Freddie." � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 2 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses his motivation for wanting to help the Chinese people, the undercover trip overseas, and his first impressions upon arriving in Rangoon and Toungoo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/703dba5be3bfe7245d0fafead1b79784.mp4 f36862e223ba1809698b9d6daf216f60 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f40242c374caf986818469907492d8f7.pdf ee1ef31e6e477cb21286a9eea6689a91 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: Erik, we’re going to begin with: Could you give us some background as to what you were doing before you even heard about the AVG? ERIK SHILLING: I just heard rumors of the Flying Tigers or the AVG at that time and I happened to have been trained in pursuit - it was called in those days - pursuit aviation and for some reason or other I had been transferred to a long-range reconnaissance outfit called the 41st reconnaissance outfit, which was bombers. I also thought that sooner or later - the war had already started in Europe - and sooner or later that we would probably get into it. My feeling was - two things - that I could possibly get back into fighters and the other thing, by getting into fighters and going to China and fighting against the Japanese, I thought their equipment and possibly their training wasn't as good as the Germans and that by going over there I could get combat experience at less expense - so to speak then when my contract was over in China I could come back to the States and possibly get back into fighters. Because I felt that flying bombers were almost like a sitting duck. You can't dodge, it doesn't depend on your skill at all and you just follow your instrument there and the bombardier is in charge of the flight. You can't make any dodges or anything like that. Whereas a fighter pilot, I think it depends more upon his personal skill as to his survival. �FRANK BORING: Let's go back even further, what actually got you interested in becoming a pilot to begin with? ERIK SHILLING: Well my dad was trained and was a pilot in World War I and my earliest recollections were about flying and going to the air field and watching airplanes taking off and landing and this goes back I think the first recollection is about 3 or 4 years old. I can't really remember ever wanting to do anything other than be a pilot. FRANK BORING: Where did you begin your training as a pilot? ERIK SHILLING: Randolph and Kelly. That's the only training base there was at that time. It wasn't until after - I don't know whether the war started or at least the emergency started - then they changed to many other bases of training. But at that time it was only the one. We were only graduating when I went through in 1938 is when I graduated. My class graduated 80 and we only had 3 classes a year at that time, so the number of graduates from the school at that time were rather low. There was no need for any more schools. Now Randolph was primary and basic and Kelly was advanced. FRANK BORING: Once you had graduated, what were your options basically at that time as a pilot? ERIK SHILLING: When we were going to Kelly Field, we had options - we had attack aviation as it was called, which later became bombers - well attack aviation, pursuit aviation, observation and bombardment. So there were only the four options at that time and going from basic to Kelly, we would apply for which one we wanted and normally I guess they would probably try to give you what you wanted. I had put in for pursuit and fortunately got it. FRANK BORING: Tell us if you will during that period of time, what were you doing? You got into pursuit, what were you actually doing? You get into pursuit, you're now at the field, you're doing pursuit. I'm trying to get to why you were even tempted to go to China, but I �don't want you to get into that part yet. I want to kind of get an idea of what you were doing before then that led you to finally go "I don't want to stay here, I want to go somewhere else." ERIK SHILLING: Pursuit was sort of the hot rod of aviation and as I say it depended - we felt that the better pilots went into pursuit. Now of course the bomber pilots and observation may disagree with that, but anyhow one thing that flying school taught you was that when you came out of the flying school, you were the best pilot in the whole world. If you didn't think that you had no business being in combat. But anyhow, flying a small single engine airplane, you were more on your own, you had a heck of a lot more fun, you didn't have to think of other people in the airplane, etc. It just appealed to me more - fighter pilot than bomber, the slow, lumbering airplane. So we would also have a lot more interesting things that we could do like mock dog fighting and acrobatics, which I love, and formation flying. Of course the others get that but not the type of formation flying that we would get in fighters because that would entail somewhat of formation - acrobatics practically. FRANK BORING: What were you doing in the latter part of 1940, early part of 1941 before you actually got involved with AVG? What were you actually doing then? ERIK SHILLING: I was in the 41st Reconnaissance Squadron flying B-18's. We were really supposed to get B-17's but the B-17's were not coming off the production line rapidly enough so we were flying B-18's. At that time the war had already started in Europe and we were doing submarine patrol - one of the things that we would do - submarine patrol. We would go out over the Atlantic about 150 miles offshore and another airplane up at Mitchell Field - about 3 or 4 hundred miles north of us would be doing the same thing. He would go out and then we would rendezvous over the ocean and it was also a navigational exercise and problem. Then when we would rendezvous we would turn around and go back to our respective air fields. We were on the lookout for submarines and would report �them. I don't know what the Pentagon or Washington did at that time, but anyhow that was one of the things that we were doing fairly early in the war - was submarine patrol. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear about the opportunity that was opening up in China? ERIK SHILLING: I just heard rumors. I don't know why no one - I guess because at that time there weren't any fighters based at Langley Field. I just heard through rumors that they were trying to locate some pilots to go over and defend the Chinese cities and the Chinese roadways for their supply routes and so on. So as I say, I felt that was a good opportunity to possibly get back into fighters or pursuit at that time. FRANK BORING: What did you do then to find out about these rumors? ERIK SHILLING: I located the office, which was in New York, one of the offices. I flew up to New York and went in town and I was interviewed by a fellow named Skip Adair, who I met again later on. During the interview he was quite insistent that he was wanting pilots who had P-40 time and I did not have any P-40 time, although I tried to point out to him that I had P-36 time. The P-36 was identical to the P-40 except it had a radial engine and the P-40 had an Allison liquid cooled in-line engine. Then I also said that also I had flown the P-37 which was also the forerunner of the P-40. It looks a little bit like a P-40, but a little bit longer nose and it was an experimental thing. I said also I've flown a Bell Pusher which was called the Aircuda and it had two Allisons. So I said I'm familiar with the engine and I'm familiar with pretty much the same type of airplane. So when I left I was not convinced - I didn't think that he was gonna accept me because he wasn't too promising. So I went on back down to Langley Field and I sort of forgot about it. The first thing I knew my C.O. called me in and gave me a telegram. The telegram was from the Chief of Air Corps. Now I don't know whether he personally had sent it, but it was under his name, �asking me why I hadn't resigned my commission. So I was only too happy to comply and I sent my resignation in right away and about two days later I was on my way. I went up to Washington which was my home and visited my folks and then drove on out to - went by Randolph and Kelly, I wanted to take a look at those airfields where I'd started from - and then came on out to Los Angeles. FRANK BORING: What did you actually tell your parents? ERIK SHILLING: When I had resigned my commission and I was visiting my folks, I had told them that I was going to China and that they needed volunteers to help defend the cities. My dad, of course being a pilot, I suppose sort of would like to have gone along with me, but my mother - although she never gave any indications of not wanting me to go - I'm sure that she had some feelings about my leaving. But they were both very much supportive. FRANK BORING: Why did you then go to the two fields where you first started training? ERIK SHILLING: As I say, it's sort of where I started and both - Randolph is a beautiful field and I've always had a sort of like home in a sense it's my aviation home where I'd started and Kelly - just reminded me of many of the friends that I had made there and I just wanted to see it again. FRANK BORING: It seems to me it was almost like a return to your aviation roots. A sort of a soul searching - before you got to China. Would you say that was true? ERIK SHILLING: I guess - I don't really know how to answer that question. But it was - Randolph and Kelly meant a whole lot to me and it was right at the end of the depression when I first went in and jobs were hard to find and I appreciated the opportunity I had. That the Army Air �Corps at that time had given me to earn a living. I felt pretty close to the Army Air Corps at that time. (break) ERIK SHILLING: The controversy that was going on really had started a little bit before this. As a matter of fact the bomber made by Martin was the first bomber to hit 200 miles an hour and this was in the Pentagon and Congress, etc. They almost did away with fighter airplanes because they felt why would we need fighter airplanes when this particular bomber was faster than the fighter and the fighter couldn't even catch it. At that time then, the Boeing P-26 came out and sort of equaled the speeds and then the Seversky, the P-35 made by the same outfit that made the Thunderbolt later on, same designer, then it was much faster and so the fighters - from that point on - faster than the bombers. But up to that point the B-10 was faster than any present day fighter at that time. FRANK BORING: At the time though were you aware of the controversy between the two? ERIK SHILLING: Yes but as I say it had sort of been resolved when I went to the flying school and it was no longer a controversy that the bomber needed protection rather than was capable of - although early in the war they thought that the B-17 would have been capable of protecting itself, but that didn't last too long either. They started putting more and more guns on it, because the original bomber had no tail gunner and so on. But as the war developed then the bombers started being shot down in pretty large numbers, they realized that they needed protection of the fighters and that's when they developed the longer range P-51. Although the P-51 was originally bought by the British, but it was one of the better fighters in the war. FRANK BORING: Once you left - said goodbye to your parents and went back to the fields, where was your next stop? Was this to San Francisco? �ERIK SHILLING: No, Los Angeles. We stayed in Los Angeles and Mr. Pawley, who was head of CAMCO, which was Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company, they had a manufacturing outfit in China and he arranged for us to stay at the Jonathan Club. The Jonathan Club was, and I guess still is, a millionaire's club and he was a member of this club and quite a group of us stayed at this Jonathan Club until we went to San Francisco just a couple of days before we sailed for China. FRANK BORING: Could you give us an idea of what it was like? You knew the reasons why you were going to China, but was this the first time you actually met a whole other group of what turned out to become some of your closest friends - a remarkable group of people. What was your first impression of meeting all these young adventurous kind of guys in this millionaire's club? ERIK SHILLING: It didn't really impress me too much because we all had the same most of us were fighter pilots and we felt that I guess we were brothers under the skin or whatever. Incidentally, Moose Moss was - I met at the Jonathan Club there and became very close friends with Moose and a very special friend of mine. FRANK BORING: After you left there it was on to San Francisco. Could you explain your stay there? How long you were there and just what it was like there? ERIK SHILLING: I can't remember the exact day that we arrived in San Francisco, but we sailed on the 16th of July on the Jaegersfontein. So we only stayed in San Francisco I think about 4 days - something like that. We were in the biggest group that went out, also the first group that had pilots on board. We sailed on July 16th. Took us about 5 days to get to Honolulu and on the way we used to tune in to probably the person who turned out to be Tokyo Rose. They had an English news broadcast which we used to listen to and they claimed that they knew who we were and what we were going over there for and that the boat would never get there. I guess �Washington took that to heart because one day out of Honolulu we were stopped by two American cruisers. One was the Northampton and the other was the Salt Lake. We were then escorted all the way to the Taurus Straits, which is just north - the narrow waterway between I think Borneo and Australia. There the two cruisers left us and we heard over the radio that these two cruisers were making a courtesy call to Brisbane, so that was the first time that I knew or most of us I guess knew the names of these two cruisers and when we went through the Taurus Straits, we were met by a Dutch cruiser and the Dutch cruiser escorted us all the way to Singapore. The Captain of the Jaegersfontein had some perishable groceries or whatever on board and he wanted to get rid of us and get rid of these perishables and so on and anyhow we got to Singapore and through the British and the American Attaché and so forth, the Dutch Captain was convinced that he should continue on so we then went from Singapore to Rangoon unescorted. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 1 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes his background in pursuit aviation before joining the American Volunteer Group and the journey he took to to become a Flying Tiger. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/14b9c85944e31c97ea3e17c1283df31f.mp4 cdfcb3036daffb2030e2454862f1c10f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30b0207e9483f32b8103ed85cf9c195e.pdf 32964974e907e1fbd8c721d1412262e6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah Date of Interview: 03-24-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] KONSIN SHAH: During the war against the Japanese in 1937, the Governor of Shangtu [?] betrayed the Republic. And then the Army leader of Su Tran [?] betrayed the public. The Republic. Short of the Communist making troubles, the Communist started to occupy north of Shanghai. North of Shanghai. This is the route of the Nanking government. The Nanking government started to gain power before 1934 - in Nanking, Shanghai and Shangtu [?] - a very small triangle that was the rich country. And then the Chinese Communists were in 1939, 1940, they would encroach in the northern province of Kim Su [?], a hundred miles from Shanghai. And so, the difficulty is tremendous. We lost the industrial quarters. And in Chungking, we didn't see fit to manufacture a toothpaste. Such difficulty. And then, the western correspondence, like Mrs. Strong, and his and her cohorts, they were clearly Communist. And so they were propagating that China would not fight. With what? But then, the Air Force took the equipment, the Navy never got the day going. The Army came late, because the Army came from Burma, came from India in the Burma, this was too late. And the Air Force got some equipment, the Air Force by the help of American Air Force stopped the Japanese invasion somehow. They, we say the government the Chinese government, they had the determination to fight the Chinese Communists up to the end. �When Chunking was endangered toward the winter of 1944, Chi Kung [?] to the west of Chunking, was prepared for the capital. If Chunking was lost, then Chi Kung [?] would be the capital. We fight to the end. FRANK BORING: One last thing, if that's a… (break) KONSIN SHAH: The war was won, because then afterwards the difficulty is unsurmountable. FRANK BORING: But then 1937 wasn't that difficult as well? He had the Communist on one part, he had the Japanese invading, he had lack of equipment, lack of supplies, he had, this is what we're looking to try and give a western audience a better grasp of... (break) KONSIN SHAH: Chiang Kai-shek's dilemma, at the time of Japanese invasion in July 1937, he had a speech in Nan Tung [?], where there is no hope of a peaceful solution, then we will talk of sacrifice. Because there is no equipment, there is no organization, there is no internal organization, there is a Russian part of an indirect invasion from the Communist. So where there is no hope of a peaceful solution, then we will talk about sacrifice. This is his dilemma. FRANK BORING: Is that possible to, you're looking down, could you just start from the beginning? KONSIN SHAH: At the time of the Japanese invasion, in 1937, in July, Generalissimo, Chiang Kai-shek, made a speech in Cansee Province [?], in Lu Shang [?], up at the summer resort. His statement was where there is no hope of a peaceful solution then we will talk about sacrifice because we lack equipment, we lack internal organization, plus some of Russia had a �Communist part to play in the internal problem. And we couldn't wage a fight, but there is no peaceful solution - let's talk about sacrifice. FRANK BORING: Thank you very much. I appreciate you're going through all of this. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shah, Konsin C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 6 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah discusses the great dilemma of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek at the time of Japanese invasion in July 1937 and the lack of hope for a peaceful solution in China. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4e5a48f56b44510e8fb8e5c2d6674b8.mp4 9b4dc8aedb96b661fbfef5b433fd906f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3bad5cc992b6bb0ab8197cd73f7317c6.pdf 1ad26d3adc1dd9eefb5190276f626f15 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah Date of Interview: 03-24-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: Yunnanyi and Kunming? KONSIN SHAH: Yunnanyi. Yes, in 1941. 1941 the one squadron landed in Yunnanyi and one squadron landed in Kunming. FRANK BORING: And one squadron flew into Yunnanyi. So that way we have that clarified through history. KONSIN SHAH: When the AVG first came to Yunnan one squadron flew to Kunming, and one squadron flew to Yunnanyi, which is 120 miles west of Kunming and later on, whether these two groups merged or something, then I don't know. In a few months, I flew to the United States. FRANK BORING: Do you recall the first flight of the AVG, the first battle? KONSIN SHAH: Yes. FRANK BORING: Make sure you state the first battle of the AVG. KONSIN SHAH: The first battle of the AVG took place in November just after their arrival. But the siren sounded and we took the planes off the… our trainer planes got off to the west, and then we returned, the bombs never came, the bombs never came. And �then on the morrow, I heard the big bang, because Yunnanyi is separate from Kunming, and the news came later. And then I heard that 6 airplanes were found. There were 6. Japanese airplanes were found. When Japanese Air Force bombed the Kunming, a few months before, my mother who was living in Kunming, got off to the eastern gate and she had only existed the gate not too far when the bombs fell. And her body was covered by tons of soil, but then the soil was moved and she was unhurt. And then in a few months, my mother, she run from Kunming to the north gate, and then the bombs never came, so Kunming got the news that a victory was held and then in Yunnanyi, we got the news tomorrow. And so we celebrated with the AVG boys. FRANK BORING: What was your personal reaction when you heard the news that Kunming was bombed? KONSIN SHAH: I think the first reaction was the American prestige of the airmen was very high. And secondly, our hopes to win the war is relatively certain because at that time the Americans state didn't declare was against Japan, this was in November. But then after the November 7th, we, I was very studious in Geography and History. And I knew that the American, the Japanese force, when entangled with American power, they could never win. No. In 1940, the Japanese press, they called their steel industry was producing eight million tons a year, eight million tons a year, but when the United states mobilized, this was 30 million a year. By the end of the war it was a hundred million a year. We students of geography could predict that Japan went and tangled when American power could never win. FRANK BORING: What do you think the AVG's first victory meant to the Chinese people? �KONSIN SHAH: The AVG's first victory sounded much more important in Kunming than in [?]. But then after a few months, they were stationed in [?]. They wiped off a Japanese bombers time after time. Then the whole country, is the morale, was lifted. They saw hopes that if we are determined, we could win the war. They a few days sooner, or a few days later. FRANK BORING: Where do you think the AVG lies in terms of Chinese history, where do they fit into this period of Chinese history? KONSIN SHAH: The AVG's story could be revived in Chinese mainland. Because AVG's story is little known in Taiwan. Taiwan is then a Japanese colony. But the Korean War kept United States and China sort of a, incommunicable. If we, if China is reunited in a democratic way, the AVG's story could be widely published and those who survived being the age of 55 and on up, in Kunming, in Chengdu, in Chungking, they could remember. But then inferior to that age group, there is little known, there is very little known. FRANK BORING: From your perspective, you have done many things in your life, you have accomplished a great deal. You also have been a student of Chinese history. I'm looking at the whole spectrum, I guess that I'm looking for is that very brief moment of one year, in both American and Chinese history, is very unique, I'm wondering from your very personal perspective, where do you think AVG fits in the whole spectrum of Chinese history? KONSIN SHAH: China's war of independence largely is to trade space for time. But, Japanese Air Force could before they take the space, exercises bombing to our deepest or greatest terror, but then the AVG came and stopped the bombing. That held the determination of our people and of our leaders. Our leadership does not hesitate but our people said that the bombing of cities, day after day, day after day, we couldn't �tolerate but then the AVG came in and stopped the bombing. That was a change of the opinion from the leadership to the population that this war could be won. FRANK BORING: From your own, you didn't know Chennault at all at this time, is that correct? KONSIN SHAH: No, I came into a Chinese-American composite wing and I knew Chennault. And only briefly. Only briefly, but then within a year, I was stationed to. FRANK BORING: Of Madame Chiang Kai-shek's involvement in the AVG, do you know it? Could you explain a little bit more about that? What was her role at the AVG? KONSIN SHAH: Madame Chiang Kai-shek's official title was the secretary general to the Aviation Council. And she took care of the acquisition of airplanes and training of pilots where the Generalissimo didn't have time. And then, Madame Chiang spoke very much more English, then the Generalissimo. And she had a, not a free hand, but she had mostly counseling of the aviation matter in Generalissimo day to day work. And then the AVG boys came in and from the start, she was informed of the story because President Roosevelt gave a Lend Lease Plan to China. And then the AVG group and so from the very start she was very close to General Chennault, and to the staff. And if by Chinese saying, she was the Foster Mother of the AVG group. FRANK BORING: This particular question, I think is very important to this project because there have been too many misconceptions and too many things said about Chiang Kai-shek and the Western Press and the Western, this is an opportunity to set the records straight. One thing that I have seen in my research is that he had a task that is very difficult for anyone in any time. If you could describe the different problems that he had to deal with �from the invasion of the Japanese, the land of having to give up space for time, the equipment, the fact that the Burma Road was not a super highway, but you didn't have airplanes, I realize that this is a very large question, but if you could address the difficulties that Generalissimo and Chiang Kaishek had, in the Sino-Japanese war? And also the internal problems also, the Communist, there was a time when the warlords were still somewhat powerful, I realize it is a very large questions, but if you could address this. KONSIN SHAH: When Japan invaded China in 1937, this was after their invasion of the North Eastern Provinces in 1931. The Japanese had the 2nd largest Army. The 2nd largest Air Force. And their Navy, they stealthily constructed so many dread knots and aircraft carriers, which the United States didn't know. And then, we, in our revolution of Dr. Sun Yatsen, we started in 1930 -- 1924 and in 1925 with 3,000 rifles bearing to the north. And in 1927, they conquered Nanking. And then they went to the north. China is subordinated to many, many warlords. Each of them backed by the foreign power that had primary interest in it. In Yunnan, they had the French equipment. In the Northeastern countries, they had the Japanese equipment, and the central provinces they had English, and so in collecting the Chinese Army, we didn't have an Army to a sort of unified in equipment. So in 1937, the Chinese Army had 8 divisions trained from German advisors. From German advisors, and that 8th division was mostly used in defense of Shanghai. And then the warlords could be persuaded to fight the Japanese. And then there is Communist. The Communist are determined to conquer China. The Communist's combined forces with the Nationalist government and they didn't do much fighting. After the Chinese Army was routed by Japanese Army, they would collect the guns. They would collect the guns. And so, the Chiang Kai-shek had the internal problem, plus the Chinese Communists. And so in 1931, when Japan took the �Northeastern provinces, Chiang Kai-shek had the determination that to defend the outer invasion must be after the pacification of the interior. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shah, Konsin C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 5 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah describes the first battle of the American Volunteer Group, the bombing of Kunming, and his perspective on the AVG's place in Chinese history. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b2bc054ee7d4ce14a690c8146e11e7a6.mp4 59dddff1ef195d57d8609dceeedc7594 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e1d547da1469a160ff482a9eca152082.pdf 3e09aee6600b91c8d1648e1900e26e84 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah Date of Interview: 03-24-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: If you could describe for us the differences and the problems between the Japanese Air Force and the Chinese Air Force before Pearl Harbor? KONSIN SHAH: Before the Americans came in, our Chinese Air Force vs. the Japanese Air Force, it's a lot of sacrifice. It is certain death to join the air force. Before my joining the Air Force, I had a chance to help a professor to Cambridge. Financing him. And I sent him off on the mission connecting Kunming and Hanoi. And he said I will finish my course in 2 years and come back to you. I said I will be an ash. The Japanese Air Force is so organized, so strong and the Morgan [?] airplanes to join the Air Force is quoting certain death and in my class I think the 13th and the 14th class, half of the members are wiped off in the Japanese war. The other half, the remnants suffered casualties in the anti-Communist war. FRANK BORING: The earlier classes before yours, did you hear of or did you hear stories of… KONSIN SHAH: Yes, but now, in our earlier classes these are my instructors. And so, in the 20th of this month we saw the funeral. We went to the funeral of a Gen. Yu Willow, Gen. Yu is the pilot who flew in August 14 and he bombed the Dismitsu [?]. �Anchored near the Shanghai and he was wounded and he was one of the old heroes who survived and so he's 80. And so we go to the funeral and pay respect to him. And he was, I think he was maybe not the lone member but he is a number of pilots who is very few who survived the war. FRANK BORING: Why was it so dangerous for the Chinese Air Force pilot to go into battle against the Japanese? KONSIN SHAH: We had inferior equipment. We were outnumbered. We didn't have the ground Morgan [?] equipment and we had no instrument flying technique. And lots of combat after the combat, a lot of airplanes were lost due to bad weather. Because in America the instrument flying instructor school started in 1943 and I was the first Chinese student to attend it. FRANK BORING: Why was it so dangerous for Chinese Air Force pilots to go up against the Japanese? KONSIN SHAH: The Chinese Air Force pilots, in the old days were leading a very dangerous life. They had inferior equipment, they were outnumbered and they didn't have the Morgan ground support and then they lacked the instrument flying. So many of the pilots after combat, they were lost to bad weather. And the American training, the instrument flying instructor school were started in 1943 and I was the first pilot to join the training. I was the 5th class. 3 of us we participated. And later on, I was head of our instrument training group. FRANK BORING: If we could go back to that day in which you saw the arrival of the AVG, could you tell us in detail your personal recollections and your personal feelings upon watching the airplanes arrive and you're going out to greet them and the banquet, the food that you ate? �KONSIN SHAH: When the AVG first arrived in Yunnanyi, I think they were peculiarly dragged in street clothes and because they took off from Burma, it's a very hot country, and landed in Yunnanyi, and not very warm and not very cool country and they came in a shirt. And so we greeted the pilots, we looked at, they came in a shirt. And so we welcomed them all the same. All the same. It was a great lift to our morale. If these pilots could fly, we could fly, but only if we got the airplanes. And then the… some of our students could think differently, because they didn't know English. For me, this was all the same. And then, later on, they were convinced that they were equal. FRANK BORING: Could you describe the events itself, and the meeting of these people and since you spoke English, you got a chance to talk to them, and then you said there was something that happened later, involving food, or you're getting together? KONSIN SHAH: Yes, we welcomed them all the same and then we, I had, I was a supervisor of daily rations. And then, I got hold of a truck. I burned my own gasoline and we go to a Shaquen [?], Shaquen [?] is to the west, it is 2 proven kilometers to the west and bought the rations and bought the expensive food and brought them back. In Ying? Yang Yee, my cousin was a contractor. He was the head of the contractor. And he had the trucks, and I borrowed the trucks and went off to Shaquen [?] and brought back expensive food and then one thing, we had , the AVG had never eaten black pears, black pears. Because the pears were so conserved. They looked back. If peeled, they were equally fresh. And they had black pears. FRANK BORING: What was the dinner like? What was the arrangement like? And what was the interplay between the Americans and the Chinese? KONSIN SHAH: We had difficulty to acquire forks and knives. And the wartime service call would come in and they had a hard time �acquiring the knives and forks and then we had no problem in China, so the dinner went off very well. Only, then I had the knowledge of eating Western food in Shanghai. I had the knowledge of the kind of food which attracts American pilots. Not the shark's fin. Not the shark's fin, tonight you will have the shark's fin. You're, by this time in '91 you were all accustomed to Chinese food, but then this was 1941. And the American pilots wouldn't eat shark's fin and so I shunted them. FRANK BORING: I know you've become very close friends with this group to this day, what were your first impressions of these men? One of the things we found particularly, it seems, is that you're telling me about the shirts, it surprised you. Tell us more about that please. KONSIN SHAH: But then, after the first victory, the prestige of American pilots zoomed. Because I think the Japanese and American pilots would fight equally and at a par. But then, the Japanese pilots, by then, we found that the Japanese pilots are their incentive, their discipline was to follow the leaders. But they had no personal quality. Suppose they had personal quality, this is subdued and but the American pilots, overhauled, the Japanese pilots. FRANK BORING: At this first meeting, when you were having your dinner and whatnot, having a chance to talk to them, you spoken with them, what were your first impressions of these men? KONSIN SHAH: I think they came from Navy, from Army and from the civilian and so at first, we thought this was a conglomerate of pilots , they were after the glory of the thing but this glory we considered fighting for democracy. And fighting for the independence of China. So I wrote to pilots this date, you helped us to maintain our independence. �FRANK BORING: Were there any particular Tigers that stuck out at that first meeting you had? Was there any particular one that you remember or any story that you can recall about that dinner? KONSIN SHAH: No because this was before my visit to the United States and I understood the United States a great deal less. A great deal less. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shah, Konsin C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 4 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah describes the differences and problems between the Chinese Air Force and the Japanese Air Force before Pearl Harbor, in addition to the arrival of the AVG and his first impressions of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d15006935cdf92eb8ef791cbeef8cbca.mp4 c827ff8e7b5a92ece0ae2427510424f2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4fce6d4a55e4ff592653472b2c74fa14.pdf 68c7b7bf67e4e155c58c7216ee029000 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah Date of Interview: 03-24-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: During the period of the late 1930's, 37, 38, there were different training groups that came into China, were you involved with any of these training groups, or did you have, who were you trained by? KONSIN SHAH: At that time, in 1938, the training was entirely American advisors. Only in the 1928 or 29 the Soviets came in to aid the C-15's and the C-16's. That was to the far end of the China's Sing Camp (Sinkiang [?]). FRANK BORING: Excuse me, is it 1929 or 38, 39? KONSIN SHAH: 1928, 29. FRANK BORING: Ok. My apologies. Please continue. KONSIN SHAH: And in 1928 or 1929, the Soviets came in with the C15's and the C16's and the training was at the far end of our country, in Sinkiang [?]. And I had no contact with them. And then when I returned to the United States, when I returned from the United States in 1944, the Soviets are long gone, because the Soviets got home in 1941. �FRANK BORING: Did you have any contact with or hear of your fellow pilots that trained either with the Italians or Russians, or any of that group? Did you have any contact with people that were trained? KONSIN SHAH: Yes, we are the 13th class. And I was graduated from the 14th class because I was chased away and then came back and the 12th class had more people trained in the Soviet airplanes. And I think they're all gone. Because the Soviet airplanes are very short range. And then the accidental rate is very high and down to 1940, there is no Soviet airplanes in operation. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear about the AVG? KONSIN SHAH: I heard that a few months before I actually encountered the unit, a few months, and in the Air Force, I was the only person who subscribed to the Times. And the Times said that American Lend Lease to Britain will be turned to China. And so and so forth, that the training of the airmen and so forth, but not the AVG. and then through our officers, we heard the AVG. And in months, they came into being. FRANK BORING: What was your first reaction to seeing the shark’s teeth and the airplanes arriving, and where were you too? KONSIN SHAH: But I was in the Yunnanyi and we think that the squadron leader is Olson and I was one of the few cadets that spoke English and then I was sort of interpreting, and then so in the beginning I thought that if we had the same airplanes, we could easily fly. And then, in 1954, I was able to command the reconnaissance units. And I had F-86 Sabre jet. We had no training. We had no two-seat trainers. And only we read the book and taxied around and flew off. FRANK BORING: Could you, that's incredible. �KONSIN SHAH: The Chinese pilot and the American pilot are the same. But the shock of sufficient knowledge, or had been unable to read English, that's very difficult. FRANK BORING: If you could repeat? KONSIN SHAH: With our engineering and the mathematical training, I think a Chinese pilot is equal to the American pilot that could fly an airplane. But short of this, in especially, the Chinese pilot does not read English, that's a wholly different, mi-handicap. FRANK BORING: Could you describe the American training program in China, the training program that you were under to fly, what were the different stages, and how well did you get along with the instructors? KONSIN SHAH: In our, in the Chinese part of my training, there were only American jet pilots. Our pilots, our Chinese pilots served as an instructor and then the check pilots. I had the knowledge of English and Chinese and so I passed it. They're easy. But then the students who did not understand the English, found it reasonably difficult. And then the, our gasoline and our airplanes, they don't seem to get ready at any time. But then our training could not go off on schedule. Then in American training, everything went off on schedule. That's a totally different scene. FRANK BORING: Why was there a difference between the two? KONSIN SHAH: Yes, if we flew at least one hour a day, compared to the Chinese flight, 20 minutes or 40 minutes a week, you think some experience gotten is forgotten. Some experience gotten is forgotten. FRANK BORING: How important? What is a check pilot? We need to know what a check pilot is. �KONSIN SHAH: Yes, a check pilot is, they, our Chinese instructors get us the training, but the check pilot’s opinion is for how much our capability matches the least of American standards. FRANK BORING: What is a check pilot? KONSIN SHAH: They take us to flight. FRANK BORING: A check pilot is..... I need you to say..... KONSIN SHAH: A check pilot is a pilot who takes the Chinese students to flight and then tells what his capability is by the minimum American standard. FRANK BORING: Very good. How important was knowing English to your training and how much more difficult for the Chinese pilots who could not speak English? KONSIN SHAH: In the United States, the difference is pronounced. Each flight like I, I will assist the instructor to explain to the other Chinese cadets and then if I flew a multi-engine plane, my instructor could leave me with other students and we never got on the same airplane, except for check rights. Because the two airplanes are information and we need the English speaking students to ride the other airplanes. Just to for safety. FRANK BORING: I realize my question may seem ignorant, but what I'm trying to get at for the film is the difficulty that the Chinese pilots had in learning some of the techniques because they were, all the training was in English. And if you couldn't speak English, it made the job even harder. KONSIN SHAH: Oh yes. �FRANK BORING: So this is what I need from you so that the audience can then understand that learning English made it easier for you to do it but the Chinese pilots that couldn't speak English or read English, it was very difficult for them. If you could talk about the added difficulty to your already difficult training, you see, as I see it, and the lack of gasoline and everything else, but the fact that the English part also made it even more difficult. KONSIN SHAH: In China, the American jet pilots, they had a ride with the Chinese with the Chinese students and then they couldn't make the Chinese students understand. And so they fell into difficulties, but in America, the explanation is done by American instructors. When and if I am among this student group, I explain and I have been a sort of a cold teacher. In our middle school, in Chinese middle school, and then I had the patience of explaining to the Chinese students but if I weren't there I think the difficulty is by far more significant. FRANK BORING: We're going to ask of you now, is that, first of all, after you trained, as a pilot, and were ready to go into battle, what was your experience, or you r knowledge of, the Chinese air pilots that had already been fighting the Japanese before AVG. What was their ability and what was their experience? KONSIN SHAH: Yes, when I went to, I came back from United States and going into combat in China, I was a, when I came back from the United States into China to combat, I was in Chinese American composite wings and the Chinese pilots were mixed with American pilots and then I was flying the B-25's. The B-25's were crude by Chinese and American pilots. And so our tactical behavior followed the American Air Force group - that was of my first impression. And then we fellow officers, we could contribute a little more, because then our… the fellow officers, had been mostly trained, in the United States, 12, 13, 14th class, and then we could position the maps and the [?] and came into detailed intelligence and then �we showed the American pilots that we could do a little more. And then the 4th bomb squadron, the American pilots immediately they held our briefing in our operation room because our maps are more in detail and translated into English and so we could do a little more, but then in United States we could visit the intelligence library. We allied officers could visit the intelligence library and from the reading I got a lot of experience prior to my joining the Chinese Air Force, the staff school and so forth, and so the reading helped me to gain the knowledge of commanding. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shah, Konsin C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 3 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah discusses when he first heard of the American Volunteer Group, the American training program in China, and his knowledge of the Chinese air pilots that fought the Japanese before the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a62d5c93f06e050f76ec1809d7f26cdd.mp4 ffb1ea4dc69c0f426c3927d45a56ff32 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3052db131b7a0c4d2a2d1dbb4887190.pdf d0e1ef1263b6731b9959d78f0536bc76 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah Date of Interview: 03-24-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: At this point, I would like to get some more detail… KONSIN SHAH: In Kum Quan [?], the Japanese Air Force had little interference, I don't know why, the 1940, they could have sailed south, but their aircraft carriers could have easily taken off and bombed the vicinity but the Japanese Air Force was scarcely interfering. So our Army had to take them. FRANK BORING: What was it like to be a soldier in the Chinese Army? KONSIN SHAH: We started as private to 2nd class in the military academy and then the, our salary was $9.60., which at the exchange rate of the early part of the war was 3 to 1 and $3.00 to American money. But then the inflation got off and in the Army we were… we find it difficult to eat rice. This was in the southern provinces where people eat rice. We would be content if we eat rice, and so in our grand maneuver, the cars and the tanks moved to the country and then we had to buy the rice and then we had no money. I personally raised money for the squadron. And so, afterwards, this was interest free, and afterwards I paid back and the China chemical works had a branch in Nu Do and I was - we had family interest and I had to ask for money and then we paid it and so getting to eat the rice is very difficult to eat the rice. �FRANK BORING: You mentioned the grand maneuver, what was that? KONSIN SHAH: We had , in each graduation, would join the maneuver, twenty or more tanks, coupled, maybe 100 cars going to the country side and the maneuver and since we were in the countryside, we could buy rice in the country and then against buying in Tong. FRANK BORING: What was a tank battle like with the Japanese? KONSIN SHAH: But then the tanks we used were T-9, the Soviets tanks, they were 9-ton tanks and then before that, we had the 6 ton tanks from the Victors The highway built, the bridge the maximum load is 20 tons and so the armor must be lighter than that and then from the T-9 tanks in the battle of Kum Yan Quan [?], then the Japanese had run out of heavy caliber guns and they were using machine guns and rifles, but they kind of heard us, and so we persevered. FRANK BORING: Why did you want to join the Air Force? KONSIN SHAH: I was a student in the engineering course and then in that day all of China had 40,000 or 50,000 college students and college students weren't very many and then engineering students came in few. So I realized that my knowledge to the mechanics and the mathematics was helpful in the Air Force and so I graduated smoothly. FRANK BORING: Did you have a desire to fly or is there a particular reason why the Air Force was a challenge to you or… KONSIN SHAH: Yes, it is a challenge. Because I have altophobia. When I mounted on a building that was 30 stories high, I was afraid. My sense kept me going forth. But, physically, I was afraid. �FRANK BORING: I guess, I have to know, why airplanes, why would you plan to get into an airplane? KONSIN SHAH: But the airplane is a good machine to fight, because I stated because my engineering training, my mathematics could help. And later, as I was flying President Chiang Kai-shek out of Kunming to Taipei, we were flying at 9,000 feet and the top cover and lower cover and the beacons were torn away and then the navigation was extremely difficult. 1400 and some miles, 7 hours and 20 minutes flight and there was no check point and the nearest broadcast station is from Hong Kong.350 miles away, there's no use, and so I did a perfect navigation job. And so my mathematical and engineering senses gave me the result. FRANK BORING: Can you describe for us the beginning stages of your entry into the Air Force, in other words the transition from the army into the Air Force. KONSIN SHAH: Yes, I graduated from the Army and I joined the Air Force as a student and then like all students, we had time for ground school and the drill and then the little time for flying. I was in Yunnanyi and then the new airplanes did not arrive because our old airplanes were shot up by Japanese bombers, and for less than 6 months, we had very little flying and afterwards, after the AVG groups came in, I was, we had 60 hours in 1 year. And then we moved it to Kunming. We had then, then Kunming had a little more gasoline. But then we were on orders to go to the United States and we stopped flying because the training could be done to the others and we waited for a few months. In 1941, no in 1942, by February, we went to India and on to the United States. But the training was doubtful every day. If one week you had some gasoline and the other week you don't have, they you stop. And that was before the Lend Lease came to China. Because before the Lend Lease came to China, Japan had, they had the purchase �of American engines, American, not really war planes, American engines and American ammunition and they could haul it on their own boats. But the Japanese Navy controlled the Pacific Ocean, we couldn't. FRANK BORING: Could you describe for us your first flight, the first time you actually got into an airplane and was able to fly? KONSIN SHAH: Yes, because at the age of 17, I drove a car, and the airplanes were not very much faster. The airplanes we used, elementary flying, was no faster than the car, and I sort of, it was sort of easy for me. But then most of the cadets, they couldn't come near a car, they find it difficult. But then faster airplanes, in my training, I took care of every lecture and every document that I could get hold of and then my training is very smooth. I did not have ground loops, accidents in the training, but in war it's different. FRANK BORING: How were the other Chinese pilots, Chinese cadets, what the training like, did you have strong enthusiasm or were there people that got discouraged after a little while? KONSIN SHAH: No, No. The Chinese cadets were always ready except one or two that they didn't care too much. Every person is very eager. It was our national shame to be invaded by a people rather small to our, in our population standards. We are very eager to get this right. FRANK BORING: One of the things that we found in our other interviews, with some of the Tigers, the pilots is that there is a certain sense of wanting to fly, there's something about this as opposed to being a Navy man or Army man, or whatever. In your conversations with the other cadets, or just in your conversations, was there different reasons for them to want to fly, was there a sense of being aviators, which was something new to China, did you find that there was a spirit, that you �were aviators, and not Army or Navy, or anything along that line? KONSIN SHAH: In our war lasted eight years, but toward the other part the later four years of the war things could be stated as an air force coming into being. And then, the air attraction were prevalent. The early stages of war, the Army, Navy and Air Force were sort of equal, they were poorly equipped and they were poorly staffed and so the wish to revenge is the same but the Army and the Navy and Air Force are sort of equal and then toward the end of the war, the aviator they were, contributed very much. The Army could do less. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shah, Konsin C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 2 of 6), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah discusses his transition from serving in the Chinese Army to joining the Air Force and his recollection of his first flight. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng