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The LGBT Resource Center's mission is to
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to lead authentic I ives, to cha I lenge
gender and sexuality stereotypes, and
to work for social justice.

GRANDVALLEY
STATE UNIVERSIT~

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Grand VolleYJ State Universit
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@

GRANDVALLEY
STATE lJNivERSITY
LGBT RESOURCE CENTER

�</text>
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M-Th 8a-6p
F 8a-5p
lgbtcente r@gvsu.edu
www.gvsu.edu/lgbtrc
331-2530

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and the first year of the
Grand Valley State University
LGBT Resource Center
The Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and
Transgender (LGBT) Resource Center
is the focal point for Grand Valley
State University's proactive
approach to assuring that the
institution offers an inclusive,
supportive, and affirming
environment for lesbian, gay,
bisexual, transgender,
questioning, intersex,
and allied students,
faculty, and staff.

www.gvsu.edu/lgbtrc

(616) 331-2530

@
GRANDVALLEY
STATE UNIVERSITY

LGBT
RESOURCE CENTER

1

�</text>
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Milton E. Ford

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1161 Kirkhof Center
Friday, December 11th
12:00 p.m.
If you need any accommodations to attend and or participate in this event,
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Queer in the New Year
It can be challenging to navigate
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Join us for a holiday 111eal
and encourage111ent along -with other students
-who have already taken this journey.

LGBT Resource Center
1161 Kirkhof Center

Friday,
December 7th
atnoon

-

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Founding Director Dr. Milt Ford
Celebrate the Holidays with friends, food, and fun!

Friday# December 10
2-4 pm
1161 Kirkfuof Center

@
For more information, please visit www.gvsu.edu/lgbtrc
If you need special accomodations please call 616.331 .2530

GRANDVALLEY
STATE lJNivERSITY

LGBT
RESOURCE CENTER

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I

11!!1!1

-

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Come celebrate!

~

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                    <text>THE LGBT RESOURCE CENTER

5
1-5 PM/ 1161 KIRKHOF CENTER
FEATURE OF THE OnGOING LGBT CONFERENCE

PLEASE VISIT WWW.GVSU.EDU/LGBT FOR
PLEASE CONTACT US IF YOU REQUIRE SPECIAL ASSIST

�</text>
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                    <text>Day 88
by windoworks
This morning Craig and I were talking about cruise ships. We came late to cruising and to be honest,
we’ve never gone on a cruise ‘just because’, we’ve always cruised because Craig was lecturing onboard. I
was prepared to detest cruising and from our very first cruise I have loved it. It’s not like exploring
destinations in your own leisurely manner - you see the highlights of one specific place at a destination.
Years ago I ran my own tour company, Garigal Tour Company, which specialized in performing arts tours
out of and in to Australia. I always said to clients: you will see all the main points, but if you want to see
more, you’ll have to come back later. And thats what cruise ship excursions are like.
We cruised in the Caribbean over New Years Eve while Craig was the destination/enrichment lecturer
and it was fun. As soon as we arrived home Craig was sick with the flu. Then in February we raced onto to
a cruise in Central America, joining the ship in Costa Rica, 7 days into the cruise. A lecturer had dropped
out due to illness and Craig agreed to fill in. On the flight from Atlanta to Costa Rica, we sat across the
aisle from an extremely ill man who coughed and coughed and coughed for the entire flight. I remember
joking half heartedly about coronavirus. The man never covered his mouth, ever.
On the second day on the cruise, I began coughing. Eventually, I went to the doctor and he diagnosed a
sinus infection, gave me antibiotics and said don’t worry. I worried whether we would have difficulty
getting off the ship in San Diego but I did have a cover letter from the ship’s doctor. No one ever asked me
anything. At this time cruise ships were experiencing great difficulties with quickly spreading infections.
I’ll repeat: no one asked us anything.
We flew home from San Diego on March 1 and I spent the next 2 weeks feeling miserable, seeing my own
doctor and getting a second different course of antibiotics. I remember my doctor looking at my throat (no
mask) and then suddenly moving back from me. I also remember losing my sense of smell and taste
completely for about 2 days and they’ve never returned completely since. On March 11, Craig and I
decided to self isolate for safety reasons. A few weeks later, I got in touch with a friend I had made on
several cruises and she wrote to say that she had checked our cruise in February for infected passengers
and there was one confirmed COVID-19 passenger who disembarked in San Diego with us. No one ever
contacted us about testing. Craig still can’t believe we managed to get off the ship.
Some weeks ago I wrote about Craig and I being tested. We were both negative. Did I have the virus? Did
Craig have it in January? We’ll never know unless we are tested for antibodies. We did ask our doctor
about that a few weeks ago, but the test was not considered reliable at that time.
So why were we talking about cruise ships? Because of the massive overhaul that they are all doing in
order to prevent another outbreak onboard. I have just watched 2 videos about changes in cruising. I think

�most significant are: no over 70s without a doctors certificate of health (hey, thats me!); no buffet; no
touch door handles; daily temperatures taken; limited seating with booking only for bars, restaurants,
theaters and possibly pools; air conditioners with HEPA filters and fresh air not recycled; smaller groups
on shore excursions perhaps using jeeps instead of buses; cleaning cabins twice daily to high sanitation
standards; a mud room area at the door of your cabin for clothes and shoes changing after shore
excursions.
There are more changes but it makes me think. On the one hand, the passenger feels safer but on the other
hand, it takes a lot of the fun and relaxation out of cruising. Plus, if I’m struggling with thinking about
eating in a restaurant while social distancing, I can’t really consider cruising or even the flying to get to
the port.
Craig has a colleague who lives in California and his child is coming to West Michigan for school. He and
his family are driving across to Grand Rapids at the end of this month because they didn’t feel comfortable
flying.
And to finish this virus discussion: yesterday Kent County had 3,922 cases and 99 deaths. We continue to
rise slowly here. I imagine that if they continue to test in the aggressive manner that has been adopted, we
will see larger numbers in the days ahead. Our local CVS (4 blocks walk away) has drive thru testing now.
There was another demonstration yesterday downtown. A very large group of people assembled and
chanted loudly. It looked well organized and well attended and I applaud all those attendees. I spent
yesterday afternoon in bed feeling exhausted, but even if I was feeling great I would have been too
nervous to attend. My heart goes with the demonstrators but I’m too scared to make my feet to go too.
Here’s a photo of Oliver with his father, Christian.

�Still living in Brandon. 2 miles from Brandon is the village of Santon Downham. Adjacent to the village is
a park, on the edge of Thetford Forest. This is situated next to the Little Ouse river. On one side of the
river is the public park area and on the other side are horse farms. The first time we went there to have

�our picnic lunch, there were 2 women riding horses in the river itself and we stood on the bridge as they
coaxed the horses under the bridge.

��In the above photo, on a different day, there were 2 other women training one very nervous pony who
was most reluctant to go into the water.
We also met a forest ranger who was breeding highland cattle from Scotland, and she had permission to
keep them in a field near the park. They are very hardy animals with heavy coats, and look at those horns!

��This is the original Santon Downham church. The village that thrived along the river bank in medieval
times is long gone now, but in its heyday it was a popular trading port on the river.

�Over the bridge to the other side of the river, there are stables and horse farms, and a walking/riding track
open to the public. It winds along through the trees and was a great spot for walking. These women rode
quietly past us while we stood on the side of the track.

��It was a favorite place for us to picnic and walk and sometimes just enjoy the sights and sounds of children
playing in the shallows of the river.
So, another day. Big excitement today - our grocery order is arriving!

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                    <text>Day 87
by windoworks
Yesterday we drove downtown and parked in the Library parking lot which was open and then we
walked to Monroe. I had thought that all the windows covered in plywood had been smashed - and
certainly some had. But many windows were covered as a precautionary measure. Art students and artists
have begun painting the plywood covers.

��������My neighbor James posted again about being black. I won’t reprint all of his excellent and thought
provoking post, just this:

It's been a rough few weeks. I mean months. I mean years. I mean decades. I mean, it's been a rough
history for black people in this country. We've watched the videos and read the stories. We all know
what's going on right now. America is at a breaking point. Really, a pivotal moment in our nation's
history. It might be one white-hot summer.
In Washington DC, Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) formally renamed the street outside the White House
after ordering city crews to paint "Black Lives Matter" in giant yellow letters along 16th Street NW. It’s a
pointed message in support of demonstrators and against the president, who ordered an escalation of
federal military and law enforcement presence on the streets of Washington in response to sporadic
looting and unrest earlier in the week.

Wow! That’s really big letters - you can’t miss that. And then she added this:

�Now to something to make us laugh. Stuffed animals ride the Giant Dipper roller coaster at Belmont Park
in Mission Beach on June 1, 2020. The park has been running the coaster to keep it from tightening up
during the recent closures.(K.C. Alfred / The San Diego Union-Tribune)

�Well they look like they’re having a good time.
Yesterday Governor Whitmer announced that all hair salons and nail salons across Michigan can open on
June 15. My hair salon is still closed but I left a message. I have decided that perhaps the days of auburnish

�hair is over and I might embrace the grey. I might also get the grey enhanced but if we are locked down
again in the winter, I don’t want to worry about my hair growing out.
The Women’s City Club is in communication with Kent Country Club about when we could come back
for a Thursday lunch and program and how would that look. It’s involving a lot more planning on the
WCC part than we originally thought. And although Kent Country Club is reopening properly next week
- events such as our Thursday programs are still limited to 10 people only. We have pushed our first event
to July 30 in hopes that this restriction will be lifted by then.
It is apparent that reopening stores, restaurants and cafes is a difficult proposition. Everyone wants
everything to go back to normal. I almost don’t remember what normal used to be. An example: I asked
Craig this morning if he had enough vegemite for his breakfast. He said not to worry, I’ll just go to World
Market and buy more. Well no, World Market is temporarily closed and as it is owned by Bed, Bath and
Beyond (who knew these things?) there’s a fair chance it may be closing permanently as I think the
company is in trouble. I’ll just order it online, I said - and oh look! It will be here on Monday. Is this our
normal now?
And this confirms it:

Along with millions of unemployed Americans, Starbucks is worried about being able to pay its rent.
Retailers such as Bed Bath &amp; Beyond and the Gap have already stopped paying theirs, as have countless
businesses large and small during the economic crisis. Nearly half of commercial rents were unpaid in May
— setting up a dangerous chain reaction that could push landlords into bankruptcy, depress property
values and freeze commercial credit markets.
I just had to share this photo of Oliver. He’s 10 months old but the little baby is disappearing and in his
place is this little boy with tons of personality.

�The next day in Brandon. We decided to go to Ely to visit the Ely Cathedral. This present building dates
back to 1083. You can read all about it on line. There is a long list of people buried there, mostly bishops
and archbishops but also Alfred Aetheling son of the English king Aethelred the Unready. A fair number
of the bishops were also Lord High Chancellors of England.
It is a large and ornate church.

������One of the reasons we had come to Ely Cathedral was because you could buy a ticket for a guided climb to
the roof. I was nervous but I joined Craig anyway (who never found a tower or a mountain he didn’t want
to climb). Our guide looked to be in his 80s and I thought: well if he can,,,,

��On the way up. I thought: I can do this. Then we went inside to look across the octagon. The painted
panels opened and we could look across at each other. The painted panels were gorgeous. And look how
far up we are. Still not at the top though.

���Looking down from the octagon.

��It wasn’t exactly a stroll and it included tiny doorways and staircases that were extremely narrow and
steeply winding.

��John, our guide standing on the roof.

The view out. John said that if you looked carefully you could see Cambridge in the distance. Another one
of those things I am so glad I did and I never have to do again. I do not like heights at all.
Well another day and its a lovely sunny one. Remember, as you get back out there, 6 feet apart from non
household members, mask up (please!) and wash your hands.

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                    <text>Day 86.
by windoworks
Stats in Kent County. Cases - 3,853 and 95 deaths. Governor Whitmer referred to Grand Rapids earlier
this week as still an active area. In state rankings for COVID-19, some weeks ago Michigan ranked 4th but
this week it ranks 26th. Well done, us!
Although Gov. Whitmer lifted the Stay At Home order, people don’t seem to be rushing out. In fact there
is a personal resistance issue for many people including me. It’s not over. Cases are spiking again in places
across America. Here in Grand Rapids, we wonder what will happen in another week, which makes it 2
weeks from the first protest and subsequent riot downtown. All that shouting, jostling, running (and
panting), coughing and sneezing.
For the first time some notable people are beginning to speak out about trump and his behavior.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does
not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us,” Jim Mattis retired 4 star general, said in his
statement. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing
the consequences of three years without mature leadership.”
And from President Barack Obama:

In his first public remarks since Floyd’s death, former president Barack Obama emphasized the need for
local police departments to implement reforms proposed by a task force he appointed after Michael Brown
was shot by a white police office in Ferguson, Mo., six years ago. “To bring about real change, we have to
both highlight a problem and make people in power uncomfortable, but we also have to translate that into
practical solutions and laws,” Obama said during a virtual town hall hosted by his nonprofit, My Brother’s
Keeper Alliance. “And every step of progress in this country, every expansion of freedom, every
expression of our deepest ideals has been won through efforts that made the status quo uncomfortable”
In virus news:
One question, answered: What does it mean do be a COVID-19 “long-hauler”? Science writer Ed Yong
explains:

I wrote about COVID-19 long-haulers—the thousands of people who’ve been struggling with months of
debilitating symptoms. Most of them haven’t been hospitalized, so their cases technically count as “mild.”
But their lives have nonetheless been flattened by rolling waves of symptoms, including weeks of fever,
delirium, and crushing fatigue. Many have faced disbelief from friends and medical professionals because

�they don’t fit the typical profile of the disease. Many have doubted themselves, been gaslit and dismissed,
been told that it’s all in their heads. But they are a crucial and overlooked part of the pandemic narrative.
But here’s a new development. Drive-in movie theaters - hands up if you remember them? When we first
moved to the suburbs in Sydney with the birth of our daughter Zoe, we rented a house literally less than a
block from a drive-in movie theater. We loved it. We could actually go to the movies with small children
asleep in the back seat of our car. I even loved the toasted cheese sandwiches available at the snack store.
At first, you had to hang the speaker box on the passenger side window but as time went by, you just
tuned into the right wavelength on the car radio.
For obvious reasons they’re making a comeback but not just for movies. They’re developing into music
venues, concert venues etc. Would we all go to a large auditorium with spaced seating to watch a ballet,
an opera, a rock concert or a Broadway show? Mmm. Maybe not. Would I go to see the same show on a
stage at a drive-in, sitting safely in my own car? Absolutely.
Yesterday we drove out to the Meijer Trail near 64th street. As we were driving, Craig remarked that it
was probably too hot for walking and I agreed. As we neared 64th we could see lots of flashing lights and a
commotion on one side of the road. As we drove slowly past, I saw a man lying on the road with a fire
fighter giving him chest compressions. I think he was a motor cyclist who might have collided with a
black truck. I have never seen anyone being resuscitated before except on tv. It was very disturbing.
On our way home we stopped at Harvest Health, one of my favorite grocery stores with organic and diet
restrictions foods etc. I had made an order online and we had come to pay and pick up curbside. While we
waited, a young masked woman came out of the store and carefully wiped down the handles and the glass.
Shortly after that, when Craig had paid over the phone, a young masked and gloved man came out of the
store, pushing a cart with our groceries. We were so impressed that we might actually go inside the store
next week to shop ourselves.
And speaking of that:

While staying home is still the safest option, we’ll need to build structures that allow for relief from
quarantine fatigue. The key to responsibly reopening your life is understanding what makes you and those
around you more or less safe at any given moment. (No memory of where that quote came from - its been
in my file for some time).
No photos of Oliver from yesterday but here’s one I don’t think I’ve posted before:

��This is Oliver with his Great Uncle Drew, in the grocery store. He’s wearing his koala hat.
Still in Brandon. Next we visited King’s Lynn. It was built on the banks of the Great Ouse. It became a
port town, and was England’s most important port during the Middle Ages. It had an Open Day and we
went along.

The first thing we saw was this medieval crumhorn quartet accompanied by a drummer. This set the tone
for the day. These musicians were wonderful.

���Morris dancers. This is a form of English folk dance. They wear bell pads on their shins and wield sticks,
swords and handkerchiefs. Some groups wear straw hats with ribbons and flowers on them. The earliest
mention of Morris dancers is 1448, with a payment slip to the Morris dancers of the London Goldsmiths’
Company.
We watched about 3 or 4 teams demonstrating different styles of Morris dancing. One team had women
dancing as well. As they dance, the bells on their knee pads jingle.

���Brass and stone tombstones inside St Margarets Cathedral (I think this is where we saw them).
In the middle of the market square there was an underground air raid shelter (King’s Lynn was bombed in
both world wars). You lined up to go down, and then they let about 20 of us in at one time. It was dark
and hot and a rabbit warren of tunnels. At one point our guide turned all the lights off so we were
standing in the dark, underground! I guess when the bombs fall you feel safer down there.

��A dancing display inside the Town Hall. These ladies and men were wearing (perhaps) Georgian dresses,
dancing the gavotte. They dragged me up to dance. It was hot and so much harder than you might
imagine. I tried hard not to make a fool of myself.

���Towards the end of the afternoon we climbed on the old fashioned and very uncomfortable bus and drove
around the town. Then we got out and drove our car out as near to the mouth of the Great Ouse as we
could get. Another exhausting, hot but really entertaining day.
So, another day. Use it well.

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                    <text>Day 85.
by windoworks
One of the consequences of the coronavirus is that there will be no funeral for Stephanie, one of the
founding members of our block’s book club. After reading her obituary, I realized what an integral part of
the Grand Rapids music/theater scene she was. She would walk past our house most weekday afternoons
on her way to the little house 4 doors down from us that she used as her music studio. She taught piano
there. Some days when the windows were open you could hear the music being played.
At book club nights, she nearly always loved the book choice and she always had a funny story to tell. She
was the originator of my favorite line regarding camping: oh no thank you. I like hotels because I always
like to be 7 steps from the bed to the bathroom. Goodbye Stephanie. I’m glad I knew you.
The week continues. There are continuing protests around the country and around the world. The 3 other
officers complicit in George Floyd’s death have been charged. Derek Chauvin’s initial charge has been
changed to second degree murder. I don’t understand murder charges but I imagine second degree is more
serious than third degree - and first degree must be the most serious of all.
This is our Governor’s reaction to all this:

The deaths of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and Breonna Taylor were a result of hundreds of years of
inequity and institutional racism. I am horrified, heartbroken, and taking action.
Today, I requested that the Michigan Commission of Law Enforcement Standards provide guidance to law
enforcement agencies on continuing education, including diversity and implicit bias training, and urging
law enforcement agencies to implement duty to intervene polices.
I also called on our Legislature to act on Senator Irwin’s bill, SB 945. Under this bill, incoming law
enforcement officers would be required by law to go through training on implicit bias, de-escalation
techniques, and mental health screenings.
These are steps in the right direction, but until Black mothers can share the same set of concerns as White
mothers when their children leave their homes, we have work to do. All Michiganders have the right to
be treated with dignity and respect by law enforcement, and I’m determined to see it through.
And here’s an answer to a question you might have had, from NPR (National Public Radio):

Will the protests spread COVID-19?
The answer is yes, Robinson Meyer reports—experts anticipate an uptick in cases within two weeks. He
explains why:
The virus seems to spread the most when people yell (such as to chant a slogan), sneeze (to expel pepper

�spray), or cough (after inhaling tear gas). It is transmitted most efficiently in crowds and large gatherings,
and research has found that just a few contagious people can infect hundreds of susceptible people around
them. The virus can spread especially easily in small, cramped places, such as police vans and jails.
And this information:

From Alan Burdick, a science editor for NYT
Unlike previous SARS viruses, which tended to settle deeper in the respiratory system, this one tends to
settle in the upper respiratory system — in your nose and throat. That means that it tends to spread with
your voice, in addition to coughs and sneezes. And when you look at where a lot of the major superspreader events have occurred, it’s places like churches where folks are singing. It’s meatpacking plants
where people have to talk really loud. It’s sports arenas.
It’s call centers. And I realized, holy cow, this is a virus that is ideally adapted to human conversation.
And lastly, here’s a list of what we don’t know - yet:

How many people have been infected.
The amount of virus it takes to make you sick.
Why some people get so much sicker than others.
The role of children in spreading the virus.
When or where the new coronavirus started spreading.
How long you’ll be immune after infection.
Okay, deep breath. So yesterday, after I had attempted to pull the covers up over my head and never get
out of bed again, I told Craig I would like to drive out to Lake Michigan and look at the water. So, armed
with coffee and snacks, we set out along Leonard through the lush green countryside to Grand Haven.
When we got there, there was a ship sailing out through the channel to the lake and as it sailed, a huge
thick fog came rolling in.

��And then we drove on to Noto’s and parked there to look at the water.

�It’s hard to see the fog but after a few minutes, the lighthouse and walkway (in the distance) disappeared
completely from view. Then we drove home for lunch and I felt better.
Two other photos for your consideration:

�This is a photo of the National Guard on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C.

��And I’ll just leave this here.
So, Oliver:

��Oliver is holding a rainbow wall or window hanging, made by my talented niece, Elle. She lives in
Cornwall, England and she made many of these rainbows, sold them and then donated 124 pounds to the
National Health Service which they gave her a certificate for! My neighbors and I have bought some and
are waiting for them to arrive. She also made this one which I bought a month ago and it hangs on the TV
room wall.

��She is also an awesome potter and I’d love to buy some mugs or such but it’s hard to send breakable items
through the mail. Check out her Instagram page: completeanduttercraft.
Brandon flashback: Thetford had a day to celebrate all things Thetford, called the Thetford Open Day, and
we went along.

��This is Thomas Paine who was born in Thetford in 1737. He migrated to the British American Colonies in
1774 and he participated in the American Revolution. He wrote a powerful pamphlet called Common
Sense which helped to energize the revolution. He then became involved in the French Revolution.
During these years he wrote The Age of Reason, which proved popular at the time - and you can read
more about him and his writings online. The base of the plinth next to Craig had many of his more famous
quotes written on it.

���In the top photo is a steam tractor. There was a tractor museum and this was one of 2 working models. In
the second photo, Craig is sitting at Captain Mannering’s desk. This is an English comedy series set during
the Second World War and is about the everyday life in Thetford and the escapades of the voluntary
Home Guard. It’s called Dad’s Army and you can still find in on Netflix I think. We did not know that
Thetford was used for the outdoor scenes.
This last photo is inside a military museum in Thetford and after we wandered around and looked at all
the rooms in this centuries old house, we stopped in the front room and listened to an expert in weapons
from both WWI and WWII. Very interesting day all round!
Remember: mask up!

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                    <text>Day 84

by windoworks

84 days of eating home cooked food. 84 days of reinventing leftovers. 84 days of learning to order
everything online. 84 days of only walking in less populated places. 84 days of wearing a mask outside. 84
days of not remembering what day of the week it was. 84 days of watching the seasons turn from winter’s
tail end to spring to almost officially summer. 84 days of reading posts from NPR, WaPo, NYT. 84 days of
unexpected delights, days of despair and an increasing dependency on video chats. 84 days of ‘its not the
same, but its something’.
Today marks 12 weeks of isolating. And while Gov Whitmer says we can go outside and we can gather in
groups of 100 if we’re careful, I don’t really see a change on my block. We’re all too careful, cautious and
still uncomfortable.
In England, where my niece Elle is back at work with just 3 people in her office, there are some lifting of
restrictions. On the weekend, she and her partner Terry went to a nearby beach and enjoyed the day
without the usual overload of tourists.

��This is Portmeor, near St Ives.
Yesterday the city commission here voted to lift the curfew but retain the state of emergency until June
16. As of yesterday, you still can’t drive along Fulton St, which makes travel difficult as the freeway
entrance on Lake Michigan is currently closed for repairs.

�This is the Police Dept building and on the corner of that building is the Secretary of State’s downtown
office.

�This is the clothing store kitty corner to the Police Dept.
For our walk yesterday we went back to the ravine park next to the GVSU Allendale campus.

��The woods there are gorgeous. We had to walk slowly, because Craig is restricted to gentle walking for the
next few weeks until his leg heals.

The ravine is deep and beautiful with a heavy tree cover. Notice my hands in my pockets - that’s to stop
me touching the handrails like I did on our last walk. It’s so easy to forget! Probably there’s no virus on
handrails, but you never know!

�This is the same river scene that we photographed last week, but look how much the water has gone down
and what a deep brown, muddy color. And obviously this is the park to walk in for mothers with prams.
There was a surprising number of them.
When Gov Whitmer opened up some more businesses this week, here’s the list that are still closed:
Amusement parks
Arcades
Bingo halls
Body art facilities
Bowling alleys
Casinos licensed by the Michigan Gaming Control Board
Climbing facilities (indoor)
Dance areas (indoor)
Exercise facilities (indoor)
Exercise studios (indoor)
Fitness centers (indoor)
Gymnasiums (indoor)

�Hair salons
Massage businesses
Millionaire Parties licensed by the Michigan Gaming Control Board
Nail salons
Personal care services that involve close contact of persons
Piercing services
Racetracks licensed by the Michigan Gaming Control Board
Recreation centers (indoor)
Skating rinks
Sports facilities (indoor)
Tanning salons
Tattoo parlors
Theaters, cinemas, and performance venues (indoor)
Traditional spas
Trampoline parks
Still no hair salons which is okay because that’s something I’m still not comfortable with. So yesterday was
also a hair cutting day. I cut Craig’s with the hair clippers and he helped me trim mine with the hair salon
scissors. Craig wanted to use the clippers on me but I’m still not there yet.
An Oliver photo:

��Notice how he puts his left leg out in front and then tucks his right leg back and sits on his right foot.
Every day.
Today’s flashback: Norwich. From the late Middle Ages (1300-1500) until the Industrial Revolution (1750
onwards), Norwich was the second largest city in England after London.

�This is Norwich Cathedral Gatehouse.

��Inside the cathedral with a closeup of the altar.

�Me walking in the cloisters. These are covered walkways that the monks used. Hence a ’cloistered’ life.
Also in Norwich was a Norman castle which had been restored and turned into a museum.

�����The top photo is inside the Norman castle, refurbished as a museum and very well done. The second photo
is of a window or arrow slit. The next photo is of a garderobe, that is a castle toilet. These were also
excellent places to have a private conversation. They emptied inside the castle walls and out into the moat
below. Some years before, we visited Warwick Castle (just out of London) and I remember looking down
the chute in one of the garderobes there. The wind that whistled up was freezing. I don’ t imagine you sat
for long especially in winter.
A beautiful stained glass window in he castle and the last photo is of the market place. It was founded in
the 11th century and has been in operation for over 900 years. It generally operated on Wednesdays and
Saturdays but now its open Monday to Saturdays.
Kent County Stats: 3,777 cases and 93 deaths. Still gradually rising. So stay safe, wear your mask and wash
your hands.

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                    <text>Day 83

by windoworks

Yesterday, at her three times a week press conference, Governor Whitmer said: I am lifting the Stay At
Home order effective immediately. She then repeated it for people like me who thought they must have
misheard. I sat there on the couch and thought: what does this mean? And then I thought, perhaps it
means that it is up to each of us to decide how we are going to interact with the wider world. She did say,
wear a mask, keep 6 feet apart outside the house and don’t stop washing your hands.
At this point I thought it might be interesting to look back at some milestones in my blogpost:
1. March 11: Last night Governor Whitmer declared a State of Emergency with 2 confirmed cases in
Michigan (only two - what did she already know?)
2. March 22: Australia and New Zealand close down.
3. March 24: Gov Whitmer established Stay Home Stay Safe. Michigan has 1,791 cases and 24 deaths.
4. April 2 (9 days later): State of Emergency extended 4 more weeks. Michigan cases: a one day jump
from 7500 to 9934 and deaths: 337. In Kent County: 119 cases and 2 deaths (increasing).
5. Today June 2 we have 3,748 confirmed cases and 89 deaths (1 month later).
So looking forward here’s some thoughts from the New York Times:

Here are some things we think we know about coronavirus:
We’ll have to live with this for a long time.
You should be wearing a mask.
American public health infrastructure needs an update.
Responding to the virus is extraordinarily expensive.
We have a long way to go to fix virus testing.
We can’t count on herd immunity to keep us healthy.
The virus produces more symptoms than expected.
We can worry a bit less about infection from surfaces.
We can also worry less about a mutating virus.
We can’t count on warm weather to defeat the virus.
The bottom line: Wear a mask, keep your distance. When the time comes in the fall, get a flu shot, to
protect yourself from one respiratory disease you can avoid and to help keep emergency rooms and urgent
care from being overwhelmed. Hope for a treatment, a cure, a vaccine. Be patient. We have to pace
ourselves. If there’s such a thing as a disease marathon, this is it.

�Meanwhile in Washington D.C. where the White House turned its lights out on Sunday night and that
may have been the night that trump hid in the bunker underneath, this happened yesterday: In

Washington, police officers used tear gas and flash grenades to clear a path through a peaceful protest so
President Trump could visit a nearby Episcopal church, St. John’s, where he posed for photos holding a
Bible. An Episcopal bishop in Washington said she was “outraged” that he used the church “as a backdrop
for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus.” Trump also warned he would order the military into
cities if local officials could not control their streets.
When Governor Whitmer spoke yesterday at the press conference, she was visibly angry about the video
conversation she had had earlier that day with trump and all the other state governors, in which
trump threatened to send in the military to control state streets. I personally find that prospect terrifying.
We would truly be a military state and trump would be the Dictator. We already have the National Guard
here in Grand Rapids and it is somewhat unnerving to see the guards and their armored vehicles blocking
the main access street to downtown.
It is hard to comprehend this state of affairs when it is another beautiful sunny day and we can converse
with our neighbors over back fences and from porch fronts. This has become our new normal. Yesterday
we took Murphy Brown out to the groomers as her coat was a mess. It continues to be so uncomfortable
when we encounter business owners who don’t wear masks. There is something reassuring about seeing
people wearing masks. It tells me they are doing their best. The groomers and staff didn’t wear masks - but
of course Craig did - and their assurances that no one had been sick simply indicated that they didn’t
know or understand asymptomatic positivity.
From the Hew York Times: About 35 percent of infected people have no symptoms at all, so if they are out

and about, they could unknowingly infect other people.
We won’t be taking Mis Murphy back for another trim for about 5 weeks, and her daycare days are
effectively over for the foreseeable future.
With everything else going on, a neighbor we have known since we moved here (17 years) had developed
kidney disease about 2 years ago and had been on dialysis three days a week. Yesterday, she died which
was sudden and shocked us all. A sad day and a feeling of helplessness. We can’t hug her husband and I’m
not sure about a funeral.
My neighbor Lea who is an Environmental Educator at middle school and who helped us (I mean Craig)
build the rain garden between their house and ours, captured this photo of a dragonfly in the rain garden.

�In our vegetable garden we have lettuces, broccoli seedlings, garlic, strawberries and some herbs. Seeds are
also sprouting in the meadow patch too. I don’t think there’s any sign of the tomato seedlings. Of course
all gardening activities are now on hold due to Craig’s injured (and painful) leg.
The obligatory Oliver photo. Here he is painting, with interested bystanders, at daycare. As Zoe noted: he
seems to be the painting leader.

��Today’s flashback: the next day we visited Grime’s Graves. This is a large Neolithic flint mining complex
in Norfolk about 5 miles north east of Brandon. It was worked between 2,600 and 2,300BCE but it might
have continued in to the Bronze and Iron Ages. Flint was cheaper than metals and was used for making
polished stone axes. The whole area covers 91 acres and has at least 433 shafts dug into the natural chalk
to reach the seams of flint. They found flint from Grime’s Graves in France and parts of Northern Europe,
mined and exported in the Neolithic era. That makes you think, doesn’t it? How did it get there?

����In the top 2 photos, Craig crawled through the mining gallery on his hands and knees which was
impressive and determined as he is not keen on small tight spaces. The guide told me that I shouldn’t go
down and I agreed with him. They dug down to the flint seam and then they dug out the flint by hand
and sent it back up in reed baskets to the surface.
In the third photo, this is the ladder Craig climbed down. The original ladder was probably wooden.
In the last photo, I am pointing at the hollows surrounding me which were all shafts that had collapsed
over time. This was an amazing experience, almost as exciting as the cave paintings we had seen at Lascaux
2 (the duplicate of the real Lascaux). I imagined all the flint miners and knappers living and working in
the area.

If there’s such a thing as a disease marathon, this is it. I’ll just close with that today.

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                    <text>Day 82.
by windoworks
Along with everything else, spring allergies have arrived. I sneeze an average of 12 times in a row just
after breakfast and it reminds me of my father. Every morning after breakfast, he would suddenly push his
chair out from the table, turn sideways, whip out his big handkerchief and sneeze violently, sometimes as
many as 20 times. His eyes would water, his nose would swell and redden - and here I am, looking exactly
the same.
I am also learning to be an historian and Craig tells me that I should always acknowledge my sources. I
have collected pieces for weeks now in a file and for some I have no idea which publication they came
from. So, I will put all words that are not mine in italics going forward, and acknowledge the source if I
know it.
To begin with, from the International Big History Association:

The story of the big bang is that no matter where you come from or who you are, the origins of everything
are the same for every location and person. Whoever comes from America, Africa, China, or another
galaxy all share the same ultimate origin.
The story of LUCA is that the Last Universal Common Ancestor, from about 3.8 billion years ago, seems to
have been the common ancestor for every currently living being on Earth.
The best evidence we have now suggests that primates evolved into hominins and then into humans in
Africa. It was in Africa where we became bipedal, and developed opposable thumbs and the size and
complexity of our brains. It was in Africa where we developed the abilities to speak, have symbolic
thought, fashion tools, and so much else. And all of us humans are descendants of these Africans. All of us
currently living outside of Africa have ancestors who emigrated from there.
There are other meanings of big history as well, but one is that ultimately, all of us share a number of key
origins. We all come out of the same story. Whoever the they is, they come from the same place as we do.
They live in the same homeland as we do. They have our same ancestors. We need to sit around the same
table and tell each other our mutual family stories, the stories of where we came from, the stories of our
common origins.
We’ll need to tell other stories too. How other galaxies are flying off away from us and out of our view. Of
descendants of LUCA who became so different from each other. Of human cultures that developed after
we emigrated from Africa and for a long time lost contact with each other. Of slavery, and genocide, and
lynchings, and videos of murder. But we’ll tell those stories not to increase division, but to draw on our
common origins. To push back against the divisions and hostilities and tribalism, and be part of a greater

�complexity than before. To use our memory of a deep common past to imagine and build a common
future.
Yesterday was a day of stark contrasts. I spent the morning watching the SpaceX Dragon dock with the
International Space Station in real time. Imagine watching something like that as it was happening. And
then I watched a video post from Governor Whitmer and Lieutenant-Governor Gilchrist acknowledging
the pain and anger and promising to work together with every Michigander to begin to address and
recognize the problems in our society.
Next there was a press conference with Mayor Bliss, Police Chief Payne and the Fire Chief Lehman. They
thanked the hundreds of Grand Rapidians who had appeared downtown as early as 5 am yesterday
morning, with brooms and buckets, gloves and masks, and spent all morning hammering up particle board
over EVERY shop and office window on Monroe, scrubbed graffiti off everything, and swept up piles and
piles of shattered glass - among other tasks. Restaurants and cafes with boarded up windows opened up
their kitchens and fed the volunteers.
There are reports that the second wave of protesters on Saturday night were bussed in and paid to riot.
The police have arrested a number of people from photos on FaceBook. It always amazes me how people
assume they are behaving in a vacuum - there are cameras everywhere! Luckily, no one was injured.
Possessions and property can always be repaired and replaced, but people can’t.
At the Mayors’s press conference she announced a curfew from 7pm to 5am for Sunday and Monday
nights. Anyone outside for no reason can be fined and jailed. She also called in the National Guard. There
were about 4,500 people downtown on Saturday night - more than the crowd of protesters in Detroit.
So after lunch, we drove downtown. Some of the streets were blocked off but as we drove along Monroe
below Monroe Mall and Rosa Park Circle, I took these photos. They’re not great but you can see all the
boarded up storefronts.

����Then we came home and began putting everything back in the kitchen which Craig had repainted al
weekend long. It does look beautiful.

���And just as Craig was putting some things back on the walls, he looked out the window and saw Murphy
was in the garden itself, drinking from the bird bath. So he raced outside, flew down the back stairs,
missed the bottom step and fell and badly strained his right leg quadriceps muscles, or one of them (there’s
four). So after 2 ibuprofen capsules, some icing of the leg and a cup of tea and chocolate (because pain
relief, hot tea and chocolate helps everything) I decided he should have someone qualified look at it. I
drove him to nearby Blodgett Hospital, where he stayed and I drove home. This week they do allow one
other person to wait with the patient, but I wasn’t really comfortable going inside a hospital at this time.
Less than an hour later I picked him up and brought him home. The nurse had injected him on his right
hip with an anti inflammatory and we had a quiet night - just like every other night for 83 days now. This
morning he will call the Orthopedic Surgeon they recommended to get it checked again.
I’m 70 years old. I’ve never lived anywhere where there was a riot before, never lived in a city under a
curfew or where they called in the National Guard. I remain astonished, disturbed, distressed, saddened
and mostly helpless. Words and feelings of sorrow are not enough but its all I have at this time.
To end, the days flashback: we visited Bury St Edmunds, a market town, with a famous cathedral, St
Edmundsbury Cathedral. The town itself was built in 1080 but they have found Roman coins and
evidence of Bronze Age activity. We wandered through the Main Street and then through a gate into the
church gardens.

��The monastery was founded here in 633 and in 903 became the burial place of King Edmund the Martyr.
The gardens were beautiful. It was late afternoon on a lovely day. More Brandon adventures tomorrow.
Another difficult post to write. I take great comfort from the words from Big History posted above.
Wherever you are and whoever you are, we are all related. Isn’t that the best place to begin from?

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                    <text>Day 81
by windoworks
And I thought yesterday was the hardest day. In the late afternoon, one of our high school graduates on
our block and her 3 friends, dressed in black (as instructed) drove downtown to attend the silent
demonstration organized there. About 8pm they all came back and Craig and I thought no more about it.
No, we didn’t smell the smoke.
This morning my FaceBook feed and the local news stations are all full of this:
I guess it doesn't hit home until it HITS HOME!! They totally destroyed Downtown Grand Rapids. They
broke into banks, the GR Arts museum, destroyed the WOOD TV news center on Monroe Center, hotels,
jewelry stores, restaurants, destroyed the courthouse and police station, Secretary of State Bulding, burned
police cars and much more. I thought living downtown was a luxury until we had to keep looters from
breaking our glass doors and running into our building. They broke into the resturant (Sundance) and
bank (West MI. Community Bank) in our building. It's 4 am and it still not over!!!

���Apparently most of downtown has been affected in some way. There are reports that these ‘protestors’
(like every other city affected in the US) are not part of the demonstrations but others with a different
agenda. It is chaos and confusion, anger and dismay. We live pretty close to downtown and I wonder what
tonight will bring? In 1967, there were riots here in Grand Rapids. Again it was anger and frustration by
the black community. I have friends who talk about the looting and fighting along Wealthy Street which
is at the south end of our block. In 53 years, I wonder how much has really changed?
I see that many FB friends are saying they will go downtown this morning and help with the cleanup. As
well as the graffitied walls, there are many windows knocked out, police cars and other parked cars burnt
out. Some news outlets are predicting a summer of violence. Why did I think Grand Rapids would be
unaffected? I am surely not that naive. People keep screaming about their constitutional rights and yet
hardly any of them have read the constitution. Craig and I have because we had to, to become citizens.
And this seems a calculated attempt to override the justifiable anger of the persons of color and turn
demonstrations into chaos so the real issues are not heard. That is the worst bit.
And all the while, the virus is still here, still active, still killing people.
Health officials are investigating the potential spread of the coronavirus in central Missouri after a person
who attended some of the crowded pool parties at the Lake of the Ozarks over Memorial Day weekend
tested positive for the virus.
The Camden County Health Department said in a statement Friday it was working with health officials in
the area to inform “mass numbers of unknown people” about the person’s diagnosis.
Mass numbers! Mass numbers! Listen up people! it isn’t over. All the scientists and the doctors and the
researchers are all still formulating theories and ideas and offering predictions and possibilities and
probabilities, but when you get right down to it, we’re still here, stuck in the We don’t really know zone. I
have never heard some many eminent people say: we don’t really know, but we think,,,
In an alternative universe, Craig began painting the kitchen yesterday. This was the second of my

projects

�There will be photos tomorrow of the finished room. And can I say, its really hard to organize lunch when
the kitchen’s being repainted.
Yesterday at about 3:30pm I watched the SpaceX rocket Dragon lift off into space and begin its journey to
the International Space Station with 2 astronauts inside. As I write I think they’re about 2 hours from
docking with the Space Station. It was nerve wracking and exhilarating watching it launch. It went
straight up very fast and took 9 minutes to reach beyond Earths atmosphere. You could tell when they
reached zero gravity because their feet floated up. It reminded me of the day that they landed on the
moon for the first time in 1969. That was my first year teaching and my class and I listened to the
broadcast over the speakers at school. I remember looking at the moon that night and like everyone else
thinking: there are men up there. What astonished me about yesterday’s launch was that the booster
rocket landed safely back on earth - reusable! Wow!
And not to overload you but in the Wait, what now? Section:
An infection of the blood vessels would explain many of the weird tendencies of the novel coronavirus,
like the high rates of blood clots. Endothelial cells help regulate clot formation by sending out proteins
that turn the coagulation system on or off. The cells also help ensure that blood flows smoothly and

�doesn’t get caught on any rough edges on the blood vessel walls.
Finally, infection of the blood vessels may be how the virus travels through the body and infects other
organs — something that’s atypical of respiratory infections.
Endothelial cells connect the entire circulation [system], 60,000 miles worth of blood vessels throughout
our body. Is this one way that Covid-19 can impact the brain, the heart, the Covid toe? Does SARS-CoV-2
traffic itself through the endothelial cells or get into the bloodstream this way? We don’t know the answer
to that.
So apparently it begins as a respiratory disease but then develops into a blood infection. At least I think
that’s what the article said.
Here’s the daily Oliver photo to lift our spirits.

��Such lovely smiles!
So, today’s flashback: about 7 miles from Brandon is the bigger town of Thetford. Just on the outskirts of
Thetford itself is the remains of Thetford Priory. This was a Clunaic monastic house (creating art and
caring for the poor). It was founded in 1103 and was dedicated to Our Lady (the Virgin Mary). In the
Dissolution of the Monasteries, it was closed in 1540 and was one of the last to be dissolved. It is reputed
to be haunted and although its a lovely place to wander around on a sunny day, I wouldn’t want to be
there at night.

����In the top photo I am walking across the open area. The site was huge and now I don’t remember what
every part of the ruins were. However in the second photo I am gazing up at the impressive gatehouse
which gives you an idea of the wealth and influence of the priory. In the third photo Craig is reading the
plaque at the other entrance to the site and in the last photo, this was the Prior’s house and also
accommodation for visitors. If you had money and were traveling in England, monasteries were often safe
places to stay overnight, especially if you gave them a little money to cover your stay. Although the
visitors rooms (cells) were plain and the beds hard, they didn’t have bedbugs and the food was often better
than inns. And travelers felt safer inside the walls with the gate securely locked.
Henry VIII viewed monasteries and nunneries as places of wealth to loot for his royal coffers and didn’t
consider the relationship between the towns and farms surrounding these religious houses - but that’s a
history discussion for another day.
Here’s hoping that wherever you are in the world, that you are safe, healthy and heroic. See you
tomorrow.

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                    <text>Day 80.
by windoworks
I can’t even. In the midst of this life altering global pandemic, when entire continents have been brought
to their knees, when compassion for your fellow man and deep understanding of the distress and fear we
are all experiencing - right across the world, RIGHT ACROSS THE WORLD (yes, I know I’m shouting),
this, this was the moment to carry on as normal and smirk into the camera and be filmed while kneeling
on another human being’s neck.
And it would be something if this was the first time an atrocious act like this had happened and we were
all shocked and protested loudly and it never happened again because we all knew better, but no, its
normal. It’s not even the new normal, its the same old, same old normal. It’s this strong belief that
somehow, the color of my skin matters.
You're really smart, for a black person" - I was told once.
"Don't worry, she's probably so curious because she's never seen a black boy before" - I was told by a
neighbor when I was around 9 years old, about her granddaughter, who was an infant.
"If you weren't a black boy, I'd kick the shit out of you" - I was told once when I was 10 or 11 and hadn't
delivered the newspaper to my customer's satisfaction.
"You speak really well for being, you know, black" - I've been told more than once.
"Do your parents know, that he's… (black)" - past girlfriends have been asked.
"You're the whitest black person I know" - I've been told as if being adorned with a medal of achievement.
"You're not really black, you're really a white man trapped in a black man's body" - I've been told, almost
as a term of endearment.
"Hey James, can you teach me ebonics?" - I've been asked by co-workers who are now pastors.
"Nigger" - I've been called this more than once.
These are the words said to the kind, gentle man who lives 2 doors down from me, who adores his wife
and daughter (who thinks the little path through the curb garden Craig built, was put there just for her
and she walks through it every day) and who is excited for his new daughter, coming in the fall. When I

�read this post on FaceBook this morning, it broke my heart. I thought about giving you all the quick lesson
in how skin color developed (you can’t help but learn these things when you live with a Big Historian) but
I’m not writing my blog to educate. I’m writing this blog to record history as it is happening and is seen
through my eyes.
We need to do better.
From Eric Payne, Grand Rapids Chief of Police: “I want everyone to know I share your concerns, I feel
your frustrations and I hear you.
Our department’s thoughts and prayers are with the people of Minneapolis and everyone in our
community and across the country who are impacted by the events there. We share your anger over the
death of Mr. Floyd and we offer our sincere condolences to his family. Our hearts are with community
members who are hurting, angry and afraid. We stand with our fellow officers around the country who
serve with honor and integrity in asking that our communities do not allow this tragedy to define our
profession.
While I typically do not comment on an incident in another jurisdiction, I believe this situation needs to
be addressed by law enforcement leaders across the country. We must hold all of our employees to the
highest of personal and professional standards”.
Today I have moved the Oliver photo up.

��Look, you can even see his 2 bottom teeth!
The last 2 risk assessments:
Going camping: Low risk
As far as summer activities go, this is least risky from a virus perspective. You're outdoors and isolated.
But, if you're going with a group, be sure you can trust your fellow campers. Have they been socialdistancing and following the guidelines? If not, they could be asymptomatic spreaders of the virus.
What alters risk? Of course, risks can creep in, depending on the particulars. Are you camping in an
isolated outdoor location with your family? This is the lower risk scenario. It's more dangerous if you're at
a crowded campground with a shared restroom and communal picnic areas. Sleeping in tents together
with others [not in your household] can certainly be a setup for transmission.
Bottom line: The activity itself is low-risk, but the people that you'll be in close contact with during the
trip could increase the hazard.
Exercising outdoors: Low risk
Unless you're playing group sports, exercising outdoors is a good way to burn off steam while staying
socially distant. Our experts agree that sports such as golf and tennis are safer than contact sports such as
basketball and football. Its probably better to avoid contact sports until we have a better sense of
transmission risk.
And running? If you're not on a crowded path where people are brushing past each other, that's a great
form of exercise right now. What alters risk? The more people involved in the activity, the higher the risk.
It's possible to spread the virus when you're in close proximity to others — even if you're asymptomatic —
so it's best to wear a mask if you can't stay socially-distanced. The risk depends on the sport. A game like
basketball is tricky. You're touching the ball and you're going to be breathing in each other's faces, so
perhaps playing only with people in your household is better. Tennis carries a much lower risk because
you're far apart on either side. That's definite social distancing.
Herd Immunity: this is a term I found confusing but this is a good explanation.
London, Madrid and other cities around the world have only a small fraction of the coronavirus cases
needed to achieve herd immunity, according to new studies. Experts believe herd immunity — after
which new infections will no longer cause large outbreaks — is reached when between 60 percent and 80
percent of the population has contracted the virus.
Even New York, the city with the world’s highest known infection rate, is barely a third of the way there,
according to the studies. Well that’s concerning. Plus herd immunity is when we don’t have to worry
about the virus any more.

�Here’s my friend, Merrilyn’s book, Bear Hunt. There is interest from the West Australian State library’s
COVID-19 collection and she’s talking to her local library about putting it in the children’s reading room.
How exciting!

Our walk yesterday. The birdsong and frog croaks were wonderful.

���One of our first day excursions was to Sandringham House in Norfolk. We drove there just after I had
fallen down the stairs so I was in a bit of pain for most of the day. Sandringham is the private home of
Queen Elizabeth II and it is surrounded by gorgeous gardens and parkland. The Queen spends about 2
months each winter there and it is at a small desk in one of the drawing rooms that she broadcasts her
annual Christmas message. She first opened the house and the grounds to the public during the summer
months in 1977, so we were able to tour the grounds and the house. There’s also a large tearoom there
where we had lunch.

���Parts of today’s post were hard to write. I put a lot in and then took a lot out. It has been 11 and a half
weeks of coping, trying to stay safe and healthy and trying to remain cheerful and tamp down the daily
anxiety. And now there is the added overwhelming anger and grief across this nation, my adopted home.
The terrible question of: how can this keep happening?
We have to be so much better.

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                    <text>Day 79
by windoworks
Well I thought it would be exciting to get to Day 70 and now here we are, barreling down the hill towards
Day 100. Unbelievable. I was talking to my counselor yesterday during my now weekly session and at the
end we were trying to organize the next session. She has changed her schedule recently so her husband
can have some dedicated work-from-home time too. She then offered me a weekly spot for June and I
jumped at it before someone else took it. This is a sign of how deeply distressed we all are and how hard it
is to cope. She is working a full load! As my neighbor said yesterday: its gotten old now.
I thought about the riots that are happening in big cities but especially Minneapolis, but you can read
more than enough online. For me, its an example of: every action has a reaction - and many actions have
consequences. What I find hard to understand is how something is recorded and the resulting
consequence does not fit the action - it falls very short. I do understand that there is one rule for people
like me: white, older, privileged, educated. I don’t have the same born to it privilege of a white male (but
thats a soapbox for another day). There is another rule for seemly everyone else, depending on the color of
your skin.
Two things that stay in my mind: every female alive now and every female born any time in the future
share the Mitochondrial Eve gene - the matrilineal ancestor. I am related to all these other females
through this gene. And I will always be related.
The other thing is something a Futurist (look it up) said in a lecture I attended: If we all stand outside at
night and join hands with our neighbors, across the world, and gaze up at the stars - how can hate exist?
From my trove of notes, ideas, reports etc.
Filmmaker Taika Waititi is ambling his way through Roald Dahl's classic novel, James And The Giant
Peach, chapter by chapter on YouTube to raise money for COVID-19 relief. This week, he's getting help
from Meryl Streep and Benedict Cumberbatch who play the parts of James' miserable, mean aunts. Cate
Blanchett and Eddie Redmayne play the magical insects who help James out. each week there are different
actors helping. I have only watched Episode One so far but I highly recommend it for everyone, not just
children.
And on an eewwww note:
Rats are growing increasingly aggressive in their hunt for food as restaurants across the US remain
shuttered to slow the spread of the coronavirus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has
warned. With many restaurants now only open for takeout services, the bins that used to be filled with

�scraps and refuse the rodents once feasted on are much emptier - and they are getting desperate. I think I
read that they have begun eating each other to survive.
Today’s risk assessments:
Going shopping at a mall: Risk varies
How risky this is depends on what kind of mall it is, how crowded it is, and how much time you spend
there. Crowds with high density lead to substantial increase in risk. The major mitigating factor is that
people don't mingle in a single place for long.
What alters risk? Outdoor malls are preferable to indoor ones. And empty malls are better than crowded
ones. Avoid the food court and go with purpose, not leisure. As much as you may like retail therapy, you
should browse online before you go. Know what you're going to pick up or try on. Wear your mask. Go
in, look at it. Make your decision and get out.
Be alert while you're there to avoid close contact. Maintain your space and try to go at off peak
hours.Bring hand sanitizer, and use it frequently, especially if you touch any shared surfaces like handrails
or elevator buttons.
Going dancing at a bar or nightclub: High risk
There is consensus among the experts that going to a club is a very high-risk activity. Crowds, ultra-close
contact, singing, sweating, and inhibition-loosening alcohol are a potent cocktail of risk factors. When
drinking, people become less compliant with rules, and they may breathe heavier from the dancing —
which means more virus is being shed. If there's an infected person in the mix, the virus can spread easily.
This is a very high risk situation for an outbreak. Don't go to bars or clubs right now.
What alters risk? Nothing makes this a good idea right now. If you want to dance, have a dance party at
home with the people in your intimate circle. If it's a small outdoor gathering, dancing under the stars —
six feet apart — would be much less risky, too.
Tomorrow the last 2 risk assessments: going camping and exercising outdoors.

��I love this photo of Oliver. Here he is, enchanted by the noise and action of the washer - he thinks its
better than TV! In Oliver news: the Hand, Foot and Mouth virus seems to be on the wane and he’s eating
again.
Today’s flashback: after our wonderful week in London, we picked up our leased car and drove north east
to the town of Brandon where we had rented a cottage for 5 weeks, beginning in September. What we had
rented turned out to be a tiny 2 story flint cottage on a main road out of the town. We were 2 doors up
from one of the local pubs and one block over from the horse farms. When I say tiny, I mean tiny. The
galley kitchen, living room and bathroom were downstairs and up the narrow twisty stairs was 2
bedrooms, one single and one double.
If I left the bedroom curtains open in the early morning, the people upstairs in the double decker buses
could see me sitting up in bed. If we left the front door open, people walking past would say hello to us as
we were sitting on the couch. I am cured of tiny house living forever.

Our flint cottage. Looks quite big, doesn’t it?

�Here’s our car parked in front. Now, the cottage looks smaller. It’s built from flint, and Brandon was
established as a flint knapper center. The whole area of Suffolk (the county) was a flint industry area for
thousands of years from the Neolithic Era. Flint is mined underground and then knapped to produce stone
tools etc., and the flat faced stones for building as above.

�This is the town sign and you can see flint knappers at work.

��Craig took this photo of the stairs after I fell down them, bruising my back. You can see what I mean by
twisty and narrow.

And this is the Little Ouse River at the bottom of the Main Street. Many people asked us why Brandon?
And we replied, because it seemed central to many other places we wanted to visit. Tomorrow I’ll show
you our first week’s adventures,
Stay safe, stay healthy, stay brave.

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                    <text>Day 78.
by windoworks
It’s a ‘give me a minute’ morning................ okay. Where are we now? In Kent County the average of new
cases is holding steady at about 30 a day for the last 3 days, but our deaths are still climbing. This is a result
of the cases diagnosed 2-3 weeks ago. I always find that the hardest thing to understand. We won’t know
what our actions will result in, for 2-3 weeks.
On the national scale, people are beginning to ask “when will it be over?” According to historians,
pandemics typically have two types of endings: the medical, which occurs when the incidence and death
rates plummet, and the social, when the epidemic of fear about the disease wanes. So when they ask that
question they really mean, the social end.
More and more, scientists feel that the virus will persist in much the same way that other viruses such as
the seasonal flu persists. There’s much discussion of herd immunity which I don’t really understand,
there’s even more discussion of a viable vaccine. And this is perhaps the disheartening part: even if the
vaccine was perfected and made available tomorrow, could we all afford it? Would there be enough pieces
of equipment necessary to vaccinate? (rubber bits etc). How many anti-vaxxers wouldn’t have it? Would
there be enough doses for everyone?
Even more disturbing, not only were we poorly placed and unprepared for this pandemic, researchers and
scientists are saying we should begin preparing for the next pandemic. The next one?
But here’s something I hadn’t thought about: as people start returning to work after weeks of sheltering at
home, local officials are starting to worry about a return to clogged traffic. Some of that traffic may be
from motorists who previously took public transit, but are too apprehensive to do so now. Eve Strother, a
lawyer in Boston, says she won't be getting on the T anytime soon because she’s worried about being close
to people who refuse to wear masks or follow social distancing guidelines. I really understand that and if
GVSU resumes face-to-face classes in the fall, Craig will be driving out to class and back.
The Enrichment Committee for the Women’s City Club have begun the big task of switching the next 4
weeks Thursday programs to virtual ones. As a committee we had weekly programs in place for the rest of
2020 and the first 3 months of 2021 - I’m a great believer in planning ahead. From working a year out, we
can now only plan a month in advance. We have had discussions of possible parking lot coffee meetings
with each car at least 6 feet apart but although we are eager to meet up again, we are uncomfortable at the
thought of possible risks.
This week on my block we discussed a possible backyard meeting of the book club, but again, that word
‘uncomfortable’ was voiced by some members, including me. I think it is the perfect word. It’s not

�aggressive or rude, but it explains your feelings perfectly. I don’t know how long we might all feel
uncomfortable.
In Australia and New Zealand, life is opening up again, if carefully. In the next few days PM Ardern in NZ
may allow gatherings of 100 people as there is no one in hospital with the virus! Unimaginable. In Sydney
Australia, 2 high schools were suddenly closed again after 1 student tested positive in each school. In both
countries they have a cellphone app which you turn on when enter a premises. This app notifies you if
you’ve been in contact with someone who’s positive.
In Italy they are opening up museums, but with limited numbers and you have to wear a necklace which
vibrates if you are standing too close to someone else. What a clever idea! It’s the same principle as the
alarm that sounds when you get too close to the artwork. And remember, this is Italy where they literally
locked everyone in their home for weeks, and everyone complied. And to cheer themselves up they leant
out their windows and doors and sang to each other.
Antidepressants or Tolkien? Look this quiz up online. It’s fun and surprisingly hard and I read all the
Tolkien books, and a lot of antidepressant names closely resemble elven names in particular.
Risk assessments of today:
Staying at a hotel: Low to medium risk
The consensus is that staying at a hotel is relatively low risk, especially once you're in your room. It's best
to limit your time in the common areas such as the lobby, gym, restaurant and the elevator, where the risk
of exposure is higher.
What alters risk? Bring disinfecting wipes to wipe down the TV remote and other common surfaces. You
might also want to remove the bedspread since it may not be cleaned after every guest. Ask about the
hotel's cleaning policies, as many have new COVID-19 protocols. Beware of the elevators. Use the knuckle
of your little or ring finger to press the buttons. Other suggestions: Order room service rather than eating
at the restaurant, avoid the exercise room, and wear a face covering in public spaces.
Getting a haircut: Medium to high risk
A haircut involves close contact and breathing, that is extended for several minutes. This is the primary
mode of transmission. And cloth masks certainly are not perfect for this. This is one of the highest-risk
scenarios on this list, because there's no way to keep six feet from someone cutting your hair. All it takes is
one asymptomatic but infected worker and suddenly many customers are at high risk of infection. (To
remind you, this happened this week in Springfield, Missouri and 140 people were at risk and had to be
tested).
What alters risk? The risk is not terribly high if both you and your haircutter wear masks, and COVID-19
is not very prevalent in your area. Look for a salon or barbershop that has (and enforces) policies to
protect its employees, like wearing protective gear and sanitizing hands, because by protecting their

�employees, they're protecting you.
And make sure that your barber or stylist is all business as stopping to chat at close distance is something
we all love doing with our barbers normally but this is not the time for it.
Tomorrow we’ll look at going shopping at a mall and going dancing at a bar or nightclub. Just so you
know, today’s risk assessments were numbers 9 &amp; 10. There are 14 altogether, so we have only 4 left to
learn about.
An Oliver photo. He hasn’t been a happy little boy lately and although he is grumpy, he still tries to be
cheerful. Two days ago he grumbled when Zoe turned her phone around so he was looking at the back of
the phone instead of us. He tried to look behind the phone and protested until she turned it back again
and then he gave us a big, beautific smile.

��Favorite purple blocks. Maybe its the shape?

��Sitting on the front porch and eating dinner.
Still in London. Today these are photos of different days during the week.

��Inside the Imperial War Museum which was Bedlam Hospital at one time. Bethlehem Hospital opened in
1330 and was a psychiatric asylum, It relocated 3 times since then and this building was one of those
moves. It’s nickname was Bedlam (a shortening of the name) and that word is now part of the English
language meaning: uproar and confusion, referring to the noise inside such an establishment. This is an
impressive museum which aims to study the history of modern warfare and wartime experience. Two
experiences the visitor can have are the Blitz experience and the WWI trench experience, both excellent.
I have to say the cafe inside had exceptional food with many gluten free choices.

The London Eye Ferris wheel. We didn’t go on it this time but we had on a previous visit. It moves
extremely slowly and gives you a fantastic view of London especially if its a sunny day.

�An old horse trough left over from horse and carriage days, now used as a raised garden bed.

��This just caught my eye. I can’t even remember where it was in London.

The Thames River with a kayaker.

��About to cross the Millennium Pedestrian Bridge. St Pauls Cathedral is behind us and ahead on the South
Bank you can see the facade of the Tate Modern Gallery. We were on our way to dinner before attending
a performance of A Midsummer Nights Dream at the Globe Theatre.

I’ve written about this performance before. It was a highlight of the London visit for me. This is inside the
Globe, waiting for the play to begin. Although the theatre is an exact replica, the atmosphere ims
remarkably modern. In Shakespeare’s day there would have been more interest in the food for sale,
assignations and business deals than the play - which is why he always had a song and dance number at
the end, so that disgruntled patrons didn’t stone the actors or burn down the wooden playhouse.
“If we shadows have offended, think on this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here while
these visions did appear” So, no offense - its just a story.
On another memorable night we had dinner at an Ottolenghi restaurant just off Regent Street. This had
been on my wishlist and we ate, sitting at a communal table and the food was the chefs choice. It was
absolutely delicious and fun, right up to moment standing outside on Regent Street when Craig said: my
lips and throat are a little numb. After a small panic attack on my part, we went back to the hotel using

�the Underground and by the time we reached our room, the numbness had subsided. No more trout (or
salmon) for Craig!
The 3 W’s: Wear a mask, Wait 6 feet apart and Wash your hands. It’s not even somewhat over.

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                    <text>Warren and Joan Valleau- Interview by Lissa Morgan
June 6, 2018
0:00 LM: Oh. Ok. Now it’s recording. So all right. So this is Lissa Morgan, and I am here
today with Warren, and what’s your last name?
0:09

WV: Valleau

0:10 LM: Valleau. At the Saugatuck Douglas Historical Center in Douglas, Michigan. On
June 7th, or 6th. June 6th, 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of
Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the
Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me today. I am
interested in learning more about your family history and your experiences of summer in the
Saugatuck Douglas area. So, I’m going to ask you if you’ll tell me your full name, and then spell
it, and I already asked this, but anyway, if you’ll just tell me your full name and spell it.
1:00 WV: Do I start? full name is Blake B-L-A-K-E. Valleau, uh, Warren W-A-R-R-E-N.
Valleau. V as in Victor, A-L-L-E-A-U.
1:12
not

LM: Ok. Um, and it says, “Do you use any accents when spelling your name?” Probably

1:18

WV: no

1:19 LM Even though that sounds kind of like a French name [laugh] ok. Would you like to
speak also? Go ahead
1:28

JV: I’m Joan. J-O-A-N. Valleau. V-A-L-L-E-A-U. Warren’s wife

1:32 LM: Ok. Great. So tell me about where you grew up, because I think this says
“childhood family” even though you didn’t really grow up here, but your family has a long
history here. So, if you can tell me about that.
1:47 WV: It starts with, uh, my grandfather on my mother’s side. Hyram Macintosh. He was
superintendent of schools in Allegan, and at that time the longest superintendent, I think still, uh,
was superintendent of schools in Allegan. When he retired, he came to Saugatuck because they
had no retirement funds, uh, in the school system. And, uh, he sold his house in Allegan, moved
to the farm, and, he bought the Dick farm D-I-C-K farm. It was the largest peach farm in the
area. The Dick
2:25

LM: Oh a peach farm

2:25 WV: The Dick farm, got, they built a brick house. Back to the Dick Farm. They built a
brick house right where the Shell Gas Station is today. And that was, a, uh, in those days, quite a
mansion. And uh, they had just completed the house and the peaches got a blight. So that little by
little they had to sell off the hundreds of acres that they had of peaches

�2:54

LM: Oh. Is this the Shell Gas station where? Right over here or

2:57

WV: On 6, on 60th. Near 60th.

3:01

LM: ok. Ok.

3:02

WV: yeah. Across from Burger King

3:04

LM: Yeah. Yeah. OK. Got it

3:04 WV And, actually, there, the yard bushes are still there, the, at least it was. A year or so
ago they had a forsithia (?) and they had different types of plants
3:15

LM: Oh really, yeah

3:17 WV: They’re still up at the house, uh, the Dick was a relative. Uh, of my, of the
Macintoshes. Um, uh
3:30

JV: That, that’s your mother’s side

3:31 WV: That was mother’s side of the family. And they, they uh, had a farm, a full farm, uh,
with apples, peaches, and pears and you name it and chickens and everything. Grapes. They had
the first blueberry, blueberries grown in this area. Uh, and they were number 11, I think it was
number 11 of the Michigan Blueberry association
3:58

LM: Oh really? Yeah

3:59 WV: And they had just a little patch. Just maybe, uh, oh maybe a half acre. And, uh, they
also had a dairy. The Macintoshes had a berry, dairy. And uh, called the Highland Dairy. A very
rare bottles to find. Those are mostly gone. Uh, and then across the road at 63rd was the, the Low
Dairy. Created by my Uncle Russel Valleau. He was one of the oldest. I’m not sure if he was the
oldest or next to the oldest. And, uh, he was my father’s oldest brother, because my father was
the youngest of 14 kids
4:45

LM: Oh my goodness

4:46 WV: [throat clear] so he asked my father to come to the area to be a partner in the dairy
because he, he was injured in World War 2, World War 1. And, uh, he just needed help on the
farm. They were, uh, I kind of prepared to talk about, uh, Mt. Baldhead Hotel, which was my
uncle’s hotel. But we’ll hold that off I guess. I can go too long
5:15: LM: Wow, because you’ve got, I mean, of all of the 14 kids, how many of them lived
around here?

�5:23 WV: Uh, Uncle Russel was the only one. And uh, Aunt Verna, his wife. Uh, Merlin, my
cousin, was then, part of the time. Uh, they lived on the, the, uh, east side of 63rd street. They
owned 100, 140 acres maybe? We had 120 on our side. I say our side, but
5:56

LM: Yeah. But you said you were born in Grand Rapids?

5:59 WV: I was born at yeah. Butterworth Hospital. And the reason why is uh, my, uh, the
reason why we went to Grand Rapids is uh (?) it’s a lot of history, I’m going to try to reduce it
down. Um, anyway, they um, let’s see. My
6:20 JV: But I think you have to say something about your grandfather was the superintendent
of schools about 18, uh, 90’s to about 19, uh
6:32

WV: 10

6:33

JV: Yeah, through 1910

6:35

LM: Ok. So, and then he came in when he retired, so that would have been

6:37

WV: He came in 1910. 1910

6:42

JV: Uh, 19, your mother was born in 1905, and

6:43

WV: Yeah, but he came in 10, 11, 12, about 12

6:48

LM about 1912. He came here and bought a farm

6:54 WV: and the deed we have on the farm is back to the Indians. And we lost the farm
recently, but we have the old deed. Uh, what was unique about the farm, on the Macintosh side
was it was owned by the Tolbridge (?) Johnson Plaque. And, uh, Tolbridge Johnson was
Johnson’s Wax. This will not be found in your history.
7:21

LM: Oh interesting

7:21 WV: But I met the historian of Johnson’s Wax and told, when we had a gift shop form
the foundry, we built the um, foundry where my father always wanted to build a foundry. On the,
on the corner of the property. And we had an old, we had an old furnace there. As a kid I used to
climb over it as a little kid. And he said someday I’m going to, I’m going to get that furnace
going, and we’re going to have one here. My father, uh, my mother, uh, let an old nag. He was
working for with his brother, and he let an old nag go. And I don’t remember her name, uh, that
gave him an excuse to go over and see this little cute filly that was across the road, Jean
Macintosh.
8:10

LM: [laugh]

8:11

WV: And

�8:12

LM: Is that how he used to say it?

8:14 WV: And, and Jean was a painter. She painted with Carl Herman. Carl Herman was a
very close friend of my dad’s, and um, sorry, my grandfather. Because they both spoke fluent
German. So my first indoctrination of it was hearing all these stories of, uh, Carl Herman and my
grandfather. Most of the picture frames that were made for the Oxbow were made in the barn on
63rd. That barn
8:45

LM: Oh wow! You do have a lot of history. Oh my goodness

8:50

WV: Well it’s

8:50

LM: So when did you start coming to Saugatuck as a little kid then from Grand Rapids?

8:54 WV: Uh, we well, we lived on the farm. My grandfather still lived on the farm. My
brother, oldest brother. 12 years older. Mac, though, spent a lot of time there, even though he
went to school in Grand Rapids. He spent the summers down there. And, uh, what happened was
they travelled back and forth, but it was really from Chicago. What happened in 19, what
happened was, my uh, father for, I don’t know, 10, 15 years tried to get my mother to say I do.
9:26

LM: Oh really? It took that long?

9:27 WV: It took a long time. And uh, they were out at the the Fursman’s (?) party out at the
light house when my father proposed to her. Thought maybe she was in the mood. And he said I
do, and he just about fainted. Really. Just about fainted. He said he almost had to sit down.
9:50

LM: Oh. Isn’t that cute?

9:51 WV: Yeah. So they had, uh, actually they had a real speed wagon that he’d take her on
dates in those pretty, those pretty rough it was, but anyway, anyway they, uh, but that was in
1929. That they got married. And they were married out there on the farm, and uh, most of the
local people showed up at the wedding. Wheelen made the flowers. From the Wheelen East, later
had the Wheelen, uh, Nursery. And, uh, for her bouquet. And uh the farm had, the part of the
barn had, what I remember the part of the barn had collapsed a little bit. All the tools were on the
wall and that’s were, that’s were Carl Herman and my grandfather made the picture frames. They
made them because, well they needed them at Oxbow. My mother was going to Oxbow at the
very beginning. Carl Herman came to Saugatuck, this is the real story, Carl Herman came to
Saugatuck. He stayed at Mrs., uh, Mrs., uh, [laugh] Mrs. Simpkin’s house. Which is uh, which is
uh, which is Roy Peterson’s home today
11: 21 LM: Ah yeah
11:21 WV: And she catered to artists, and the, so he came there and he said, oh this would
make a wonderful click. I didn’t know the difference between click and quick

�11: 34 LM: Quick
11:34 WV: And Mrs. Peder told me
11:38 LM: ok [laugh]
11:39 WV: She said “I think you’d better know the definition.” Anyway. She didn’t know
either. But he said, oh he said I want to show my, my, first. I’m sorry. Uh, Carl Herman said I
want to bring my fiancé here. And he did. And uh, that’s how it all started. They, he invited Mr.
Fursman, who was his friend in New York, and they all came, and they said “Yes, it would make
a quick all right. We could start something art here.” Because of the natural beauty in the dunes.
Anyway that, uh, that kind of started the that uh, that side. Uh. Sorry
12:30 LM: So your, your, I mean your parents got married then, but are you one of the younger
children then?
12:34 WV: I’m the youngest
12:34 LM: you’re the youngest
12:35 WV: My brother was 12 years older.
12:38 LM: Ok. Ok.
12:38 WV: but yeah
12:40 LM: Yeah, yeah. Because they got married pretty young. I mean that was 1929, did you
say they got married?
12:44 WV: Yeah. And they married when he was I think 28. And I never really looked at the
dates, I was supposed to write a book but
12:54 LM: You should. Oh my goodness. So then, so then you started your your older brother
spent a lot of time
13:02 WV: With his grandfather to stay with him and help him out and basically
13:05 LM: And that would have been in the 40’s or?
13:10 WV: That was in the, that was in the probably the 30’s.
13:14 LM: 30’s. OK
13:18 WV: uh, let’s see. 30’s and 40’s actually.
13:20 LM: 30’s and 40’s?

�13:22 WV: Yeah. He would, uh, the unusual part of my brother was that he called his mother
and dad Jean and Law. My Dad’s name was Law. And the reason why his oldest brother,
Lawrence, and they couldn’t use that, and they wanted Law, so L-A-W. And, uh, the uh, I’ve got
to get back on track here
13:40 LM: It’s all right. You can kind of meander. I mean it’s so interesting. I mean, the focus
here is supposed to be from the 50’s and 60’s, but the thing is it’s worth it to talk a little bit like
you are because you’re approaching where you, you know, where you come in. In the 50’s and
60’s, and there’s so much. It goes back so far, um
14:09 WV: Well we started, my father, um went to Chicago. During the Depression. Brought,
they had an old truck, farm truck. My father would fill that full of vegetables from 3 or 4 farms.
The Lobenoffer’s farm and several others, the Vulls, and so forth into Chicago. And he knew
how to hawk them
14:32 LM: Yeah, hawking. Yeah. Yeah.
14:34 WV: And he would come back with money, which they didn’t have around here. They
had food, but Chicago had no food
14:40 LM: Right, but not the actual right
14:42 WV: So it worked out very well, and that’s the reason he married my mother and got an I
do is probably that he had a job in Chicago.
14:50 LM: And he was a f—
14:56 WV: And he was a foundry man. Well, he wasn’t then. He went, he had a job when there
were no jobs. Men were just lined up in Chicago. To get in to do anything. And he got it. And
this old German who was a molder which is the highest rank that you can have in foundry men is
molder was the most important. He said, my father kept saying “I’d like to learn how to mold.”
He said, “yeah. You and a million others.” This was our trade. He befriended him, and he said, “
well, if you stay at night, I’ll teach you how to mold.” Well, when he started to mold, he came
home, here, and he said, uh, to his father in law “Macintosh, is there something you’d like me to
cast?” He said, “Well, yes, sir, Law. I’d like you to cast a school bell.” That’s how this school
house became a part of our thing. This was the beginning of the school house. And, uh, so he
brought back a bell and Professor Macintosh had to take his bell back to school cause he was still
involved in 1929. It’s in their history, in Allegan history
16:15 LM: Oh is it? Yeah.
16:18 WV: Yeah, the old school pictures of him and so forth.
16:20 LM: Oh they, yeah, yeah

�16:24 WV: And, uh, um, so, the haunting side, after it kind skips the, the haunting side is every
time I’d go for a permit, I wanted to build a foundry here. We had one in Grand Rapids. Now the
unusual thing a foundry in Grand Rapids, it was the front doors of now the Gerald Ford Museum
16:44 LM: Oh really
16:46 WV: I remember it
16:47 LM: Yeah.
16:48 WV: Where Gerry invited us to the dig. And that’s another whole story, but that’s a
Grand Rapids story. But this was our background is the Henry Ford Museum today. And that
was the oldest foundry in Grand Rapids. Back with the Indians. They persuaded the Indians to, I
mean that’s another history itself. But they, they did persuade the Indians to have a black smith,
so they shop to shoe their own horses.
17:15 LM: In the name of
17:16 WV: The black smith
17:17 LM: In the name of
17:18 WV: The name of the foundry was called Harring. And then it became Harring Foundry.
The reason why it was, you’ve heard of the Atwood Brass in Grand Rapids?
17:28 LM: No
17:29 WV: Well that was an old marine hardware. It still is today. Uh, well that was kind of the
start of my getting about too
17:38 LM: When was the foundry, um, started here? When was that?
17:43 JV: 1971
17:43 WV: 1971
17:44 LM: Oh 71. Ok. So the Grand, so it was in, I mean this kind of work was in the family
for quite a long time then
17:51 WV: Very much so. My father. Yeah.
17:52 LM: In Grand Rapids and then finally in the 70’s here
17:53 WV: Well, in Chicago. And then St. Louis. They went to St. Louis.
17:58 LM: Oh they went to St. Louis too

�17:59 WV: Yeah. Opened a foundry there. And she’s, I remember my mother saying, “Every
day you had to wash the widows! Every day!”
18:07 LM: [laugh] Your memory’s incredible. I mean really. You remember all the names and
everything. I mean that goes back two, that’s like three generations really. Grandparents and,
what were
18:19 WV: Well we’re only born back to Isle Delray (?) and (?) uh, uh, France. We were, we
were the Huguenots that uh, came over here in 1764.
18:40 LM: Oh
18:42 WV: And, uh, we were being persecuted by the Catholic church, and we took our last
stand in Isle Delray and (?), which were like Saugatuck and Douglas. They weren’t really that
large. And it ended up that my cousin became in 1900, cousin I’d guess you’d call him, became a
bishop in the church only a short time. But he became a bishop. They had to, they were
Christian. They were Knights Templar so they had to, they had to give in or be killed, even after,
way after the, well I’m not a good historian to tell you that side. But that’s uh, so anyway, our
family moved to New York, and then we went to Michigan. And Ohio
19:32 LM: Ohio. Yeah
19:34 WV: Ohio Basin area. And, uh, that’s another, that’s another, oh area there
19:39 LM: You should have been a historian I guess then. You have, you have enough
information to write a book
19:43 WV: Well that’s nothing
19:45 LM: I don’t want to, I don’t want to move you. But I would like to talk about, um, you
said you had some information about a hotel. You said your uncle
19:55 WV: Yes. Uh, the reason I brought the blueberries up, and, and see the, my uncle, I’m
going back. My uncle
20:04 LM: That’s all right. We can go all over the place. It doesn’t matter. They’re the ones
that are going to have to make sense of it all [laugh]
20:07 WV: My uncle bought, the how he bought it and so forth I don’t have any history of that
but
20:14 LM: This was your father or mother
20:14 WV: This was my father’s, my, uh, Uncle Russel

�20:18 JV: [cough]
20:20 LM: OK
20:21 WV: Which was the oldest brother, married Verna, uh, I don’t remember her maiden
name. And, uh, her sister was Rea Jackson. And Harry Jackson were the two owners of the hotel.
20:34 LM: OK
20:34 WV: Mt. Baldhead hotel
20:35 LM: Ok.
20:36 WV: This was in the 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s
20:40 LM: Ok
20:41 WV: Then it, uh, either burned or, not sure what happened. To the hotel, but anyway the
Mt. Baldhead Hotel. The thing I remember about it was, the thing I really remember was Uncle
uh, Uncle, uh, Harry Jackson. Uncle Harry, uh, having to pardon himself from my dad. My dad
brought milk over. He wasn’t part of the dairy, but he helped, he helped his brother at times,
when he was in town, he took some milk over because they had to take fresh milk over to, to the
hotel, and sometimes the chickens that they, you know, if they needed some chickens they took
some chickens grew out on 63rd. Um, so they uh, part of their income, my uncle Russel’s income
was, of course, all farming, but it was a hotel
21:41 LM: OK
21:41 WV: Because his brother in law owned the hotel. He had the contract for the milk. He
had the, for the cottage cheese, whatever they made
21:50 LM: Whatever they made, yeah. They would furnish the unit
21:52 WV: Yeah, I remember helping my uncle in the dairy which was just to the side of the
house. It wouldn’t have made health codes today
21:59 LM: [laugh] That was part of the farm you mean?
22:00 WV: [laugh] That was part of the farm
22:03 LM: Part of the farm
22:04 WV: Yeah. He had dairy cows

�22:04 LM: What was, was there a road then? What was that?
22:06 WV: 130, uh, 160, uh, 63rd and 132nd street. Right on the corner
22:10 LM: Oh, and that’s kind of where the high way is now, or no?
22:18 WV: Uh, it’s right where they’re, they’re building kitty corner across right now uh, the
big, the big mall. Uh, that whole area, they uh, right now it’s a horse ranch the front part of it. It
was, uh, divided out, uh, lotted out, and that’s one of the southern gulleys. That they have. They
have a gulley that goes feeds Silver Lake. And uh,
22:45 JV: Yeah, and the property was also part of the Ravine
22:48 WV: It was called the Ravines, yeah
22:49 LM: Ravine?
22:50 JV: mmhm
22:50 WV: Uh, yeah.
22:51 JV: The, the Ravine Golf Course? The Valleu, the Valleau, yeah.
22:54 WV: I cut and sold that
22:56 LM: So that’s that whole, that would be like all west of Silver, east I mean, east. Yeah
the high way
22:56 garbled interrupting each other
23:04 WV: Because my cousin Merlin started to buy up extra land and extra land, more land
for his cattle, and that’s a whole story in itself. What he did, uh, cattle, uh,
23:15 JV: Yeah. What we’re talking about also with the blueberries and what not, and they
want to go back to the 50’s. You were involved in, uh, the middle part of the 50’s, end of 50’s,
57 or so. You were 12, 13 years old, and your parents had the blueberry patch. Uh, 7 or 8 acres
of blueberries, and it was Warren’s responsibility to find the pickers, get the pickers to the patch,
pick the blueberries all summer long, and take the blueberries to the co-op of their association at
the age of 12 or 13. And it was his responsibility, and his parents were in Grand Rapids while he
was doing this at that age
24:04 LM: Oh, you stayed at your grandparents at that time?
24:05 WV: I stayed at, well actually, my grandfather died a week or two after I was born. He
just wanted to see me born and he died of fright

�24:15 LM: [laugh]
24:15 JV: [laugh]
24:15 WV: [laugh] and he was staying up in Grand Rapids. Uh, my parents bought a stone
house in Grand Rapids up on Front Street, Front- 4th Street, uh, and we fought the city to save,
we started the Historic District, uh, up on the hill, uh, by fighting the city because they wanted to
tear all the history
24:38 LM: All down, yeah.
24:40 WV: Down, all these stone houses made from the river quarry. They were all Victorian,
uh, not Victorian, below, before it. They were all Greek Revival houses, great big pillars on one
of the houses we tore down. And we hauled it to the farm. Uh, that was a time, really the city of
Grand Rapids didn’t care about history of course
25:05 LM: Any, any, uh, of that, that started, yeah, I remember when I was a kid and they
started, I mean I left around then when they started tearing everything down and then, my mother
was six. My parents had an antique shop for many years
25:18 WV: Where abouts?
24:19 LM: And my grandparents, in Hastings, and my grandparents, my father’s parents, had
an antique shop for 45 years. So, I mean there was a lot of respect and appreciation for that. And
especially architecture. That’s why, that’s one of the reasons I think that I have an interest in the
historical society here, you know, the importance of it. What I am interested in, and this just kind
of comes from my understanding, but what was it like to have this kind of contrast between the
farm, kind of the farm living, and then the art
25:53 WV: And the city?
25:54 LM: Yeah, and then the town, the small town of Saugatuck, and the art, you know,
Oxbow and all, how did that all? What was that, what was that like?
26:01 WV: Well, my mother was one of the first students at Oxbow, and she was with, uh, oh,
some of the, I don’t know if I can memorize the girls, some of the paintings, I can’t
26:13 LM: Ah, ah yes.
26:14 WV: Uh, they were all painting together. You had the Shippens (?), or the uh, uh,
Tomminsons (?), Dave Tomminson was the one that decide the golf, Arnold Palmer Golf course
out there. And he accepted it.
26:30 LM: He was an artist at Oxbow then or was a teacher?

�26:34 WV: He was uh, he was uh, no. Dave Tomminson was, uh, a, his father was an architect
in Chicago
26:44 LM: OK
26:44 WV: And, uh,
26:45 JV: Dorothy. His wife. Aunt Dorothy
26:48 WV: Yeah. Aunt Dorothy. They, they, uh, they were asked to design buildings in Pearl
Harbor. And they were there at the attack on Pearl Harbor, just, uh, the water was too oily to go
swimming that morning, and uh, they had taken these ships out that, I’m getting off track really,
but uh, they took these ships out that weren’t running at all. It was all set up, and they just pulled
those out so they could blow those up
27:16 LM: blow, oh
27:17 WV: and maybe not get the other ones too bad.
27:20 LM: Yeah
27:20 WV: But, um, so they when, as they pulled these old ships out, and they were waiting
for the Japanese. That’s what, you know. So that was quite a story and they still, um. My cousins
on that side of the family which were the Macintyre’s side, they still go to the uh, I don’t know if
they go anymore, but they used to go to the Pearl Harbor, um, group uh,
27:47 LM: Oh, the like memorial, yeah
27:48 WV: Dave was one of them, his sister Mary, now Mary was an artist here in Saugatuck.
Mary, uh, Tomminson, she’s uh in Grand, in Holland by the name of Mary Latell (?). And she’s
gotta be in her in 90’s, but she has pictures galore, uh, I mean of Saugatuck. Unbelievable. My
uncle, my uncle uh, uh, Tomminson had the first movie cameras. We have uh, movies, or they
do. They have movies of out at the, at the pier in Saugatuck and in Saugatuck, all movies, no one
could afford a movie camera, but he could because he was an architect.
28:37 LM: When was were those, when was that?
28:40 WV: It was during the, what’s the house I worked on in Grand Rapids?
28:44 JV: Frank Lloyd
28:45 WV: Frank Lloyd Wright, yeah. He worked with Frank Lloyd Wright, not together
exactly, but they were personal friends from Chicago. And so, they needed a movie camera. And
so they had a lot of movies. Even my grandfather, back, and I saw a copy of my grandfather.
And they weren’t used to movies. They were used to sitting upright, strong

�29:10 LM: Oh yeah. Right, very stern and all that
29:14 WV: [laugh] yeah. My dad threw a, in the movie threw a dog into my grandfather’s arms
so he’d move.
29:20 LM: [laugh] he moved!
29:22 WV: Anyway, so, uh
29:25 LM: So when did you come live here, like, um permanently?
29:29 WV: I, I started to well, permanently was uh, well, let’s see. Um. I’m not even sure of the
year
29:40 JV: It was uh, in 1971. You started building the foundry, uh, on 63rd Street, and uh, also
having the foundry, uh, in Grand Rapids running with
29:52 LM: So before then you would just come back and forth? Because you had a lot of
relatives here
29:57 WV: We came back and forth. I lived at, mostly out in Ada with my parents because we
lost the house with the demolition
30: 02 LM: In Ada? Ok.
30:04 WV: We moved out to Ada and, uh, so I got tired of driving back and forth til 12 o’clock
at night. My mother would have a meal for me. And my father was a little disturbed about that
30:15 LM: Yeah. Ok.
30:18 WV: [laugh] Anyway. Uh, good way to ween a son. Anyway, building the foundry, um,
was another whole, whole world because you don’t build a foundry in a town like this
30:30 LM: Yeah
30:31 WV: And I was told I was going to fail. And I bought Atwood Brass Foundry in Grand
Rapids. That’s a big Foundry. And moved the equipment to here. The one person to help me in
Saugatuck, the one person was a man who changed Saugatuck from being a total resort town
controlling the people, my uncle controlled them. Uncle Harry controlled the people to make
sure there was no industry in Saugatuck. They could hire the people, they, I could tell you all
about that
31:08 LM: No, that’s interesting, I mean yeah
31:08 WV: But that’s what he did. He made sure that they all they had a, a quick, a click, that’s
the word I’m thinking of. A click. That the people wouldn’t have permanent jobs around here.

�You would have to depend on the tourist traffic. So they could get all the people they’d need to
run a hotel.
31:28 LM: So, when your grandparents were here, then, um, and they had the farm, then were
the populations kind of, or, er, kind of divided by where the farmers did their work and the, like
you’re saying, the tourists and the and the, the whole town or?
31:45 WV: Yeah. What kept them together was the dairies. We have a lot of dairies in
Saugatuck that were old dairies. And you’d lose your job if you brought some milk in and it
didn’t last a day and if it didn’t last two days
31:58 LM: Yeah.
31:59 WV: You would have a competitor in there getting your contract.
32:03 LM: How many dairies were there?
32:03 WV: Oh, there was a lot of dairies
32:06 LM: Yeah
32:06 WV: And, uh, they all have their milk routes. Uh, Saugatuck Dairy, uh, handled most of
the hotel. That was their big part, when the hotel closed down, they, my uncle sold the, the cattle
farm, because they didn’t have that vine that they had to run the dairy
32:28 LM: Yeah, yeah,
32:29 WV: Yeah.
32:30 LM: And they were all around. Like all around the area?
32:32 WV: Oh, all around here. Yes. I wish I could name them all off, but
32:38 JV: Yeah, the um, the, um, let’s see, now the, the hotel was on the shore where ship and
shore is.
32:48 LM: Right
32:49 JV: And then across the street, then they lived in that
32:52 WV: Oh, I would like to tell you about that, is Mt. Baldhead. You’re right. Ok. What Mt.
Baldhead, um, Hotel, Aunt Rea and Uncle Harry lived across the street
33:08 JV: In the house, the brick house that’s across the street. The house across the street
that’s called the Ivy Inn

�33:19 WV: Ivy Inn yes
33:19 LM: Oh the Ivy Inn! Yeah, yeah. I stayed there. That is when I used to come alone, yeah,
that was
33:20 JV: That was their, that was their home and while they they managed
33:27 WV: Threw many a party
33:28 LM: Managed the
33:29 JV: Managed the hotel
33:32 WV: Yeah, and as kids, uh the hotel was still going, and uh, I hardly ever saw Uncle
Harry, but Aunt Rea was, uh, seemed always around. He was busy, busy doing this or that to run
this hotel. But they had a phone from the, uh, their house, the ho- to the hotel. And as a kid, my
cousins and I all tried to get that phone running. I bought these big batteries that were these big
D, C batteries, and we put one in one and one in the other, and we were cranking this all, and it
wouldn’t work
34:10 LM: cranking [laugh]
34:13 WV: And we’d yell across the street trying to get this phone running. We found the line
was down. We couldn’t get the line up, so those big batteries. The cost of those
34:27 LM: Yeah. Did you spend any time at the hotel, or just going to visit your, yeah, yeah
34:28 WV: Never at the hotel, but I’d go there with my dad to bring milk over, and he was,
he’d talk with my uncle. And I remember my uncle Harry having a big wad of ca- cash. This big.
It was like three inches in diameter. I’d never seen anybody with a round ball of money. And, uh,
my father, uh, I uh, let’s see, so my uncle Harry said “How much is the milk and the eggs from,
from Russel?” And he’d bring out this big ball of money and count out the money and give him
cash and. That was the day of the cash. That was the day that nothing was recorded. You’d pay
your bills in cash and never kept track of them, and, uh, the other thing that I remember is, this
was almost the same time, but it was over and over again, but was when Harry would go to the
cars because someone he’d recognize the people coming. They didn’t come for the day. They
came in for the week or two weeks or the summer
35:34 LM: Or the summer and stay at the hotel that long?
35:34 WV: Stay at the hotel. Yes. Yes. There were people with a lot of money from, from, uh
down in uh, Missouri, and, uh, Wisconsin, and, uh, mainly Chicago.
35:48 LM: How did they get up here? Because I know I read some um, information about how
they used to come by boat and yeah

�35:54 WV: Lake steamer. Little lake steamer
35:57 LM: My grand uncle. My dad’s uncle, um, worked as the captain of one of those
steamers that used to come this way. Yeah, yeah. He lived in Oak Park.
36:08 WV: He did
36:09 LM: Yeah, um, Illinois
36:10 WV: That’s Joan’s territory
36:11 LM: Oh is it?
36:13 JV: mm hm. Yeah. Yeah
36:14 WV: uh, Uncle Harry had three friends, uh, real close friends. One was Mor- Mork
Echton. Mork Echton.
36:22 LM: OK
36:24 WV: I think he was the captain of the Alabama. I’m not sure, but I think he was, uh, the
ex captain.
36:32 LM: And that came from where?
36:34 WV: That was from here
36:36 LM: Ok.
36:37 WV: There were three ships. We had three ships here that, uh, lake steamers. And the
Alabama was one, and they were parked in
36:48 LM: They were moored here, uh
36:49 WV: Yeah. Moored in Holland
36:51 LM: Oh, ok
36:52 WV: Moored up in Holland, uh, that I remember. They weren’t moored here, but, uh,
there. That’s what I remember. And, uh, Mork Echton would tell me old stories. That was little
whirl, but uh, um, the three of them, Uncle Harry and uh, a man by the name of Founders. It took
me, this morning I woke up, and I remembered his name
37:18 LM: Oh did you?
37:19 WV: Flanders! Flanders. F-L-A-N-D-E-R-S. Uh, the three of them were his close friends,

�so Uncle Harry had connections on how they could rent a garden out on 63rd. And so they got my
father to rent them land. My father said, “Look if you want some farm space, I’ll give it to you.”
“No, no. These guys can afford it, and they want to pay their way.” So I saw Uncle Harry very
little then. But they used the goods from the farm, from their farm, from their gardening for the
hotel and for themselves. And, uh, uh, Mork Etchton and, played a joke on me. I’ll never forget
that joke. It was, he trained me. He uh, we were racing on who could have the biggest
watermelon. Now I had the biggest watermelon. I babied that watermelon, and they, they knew it
too. They said, I’ll tell you what. Mork said “I’ll tell you what.” A lot of people knew Mork. I
mean he was, he was quite a guy
38:32 LM: So he was the, you said he was the
38:35 WV: Yeah, he was an old, he was an old captain
38:39 LM: Captain. Did he live in town?
38:40 WV: Yes
38:41 LM: And where did, did they go? Did they go up and down Lake Michigan then? On the
steamer?
38:46 WV: Well, that was before my time, because I think the boat was mostly moored in
Holland. They weren’t running, so that was before my time. I just heard stories. Oh yeah. He was
38:47 LM: Ok. Ok. All right. So he was an older guy? He was an older guy.
38:46 WV: To me, real old right. My age. Anyway they, did the gardening, and I was paid, uh,
by bribes. They’d bring me a candy bar, and I’d water their garden. But I watered my
watermelon, and it got so big they Mork said “I’ll tell you what. I will give you a quarter because
I think your watermelon probably is ready. I’ll pay you a quarter if you cut a little square in
there, a little pyramid, and, uh, see if it’s ripe.” And I said “Well, that will make it rot.”
Whatever. And he says “Oh, no, no, no, no, no.” He says “We’ll put it back together. If it isn’t
ripe we’ll put it back together. It’ll get ripe that way even quicker.” And I watched my
watermelon shrivel, and it came down and shrunk, I lost my watermelon
39:50 LM: Oh, no. He was totally wrong.
39:53 WV: He was wrong. But he gave me a quarter. Two bits. Two bits
39:56 LM: Which was good
39:57 WV: That was a lot of money. Two bits
39:58 LM: Yeah. Did people do that often where they would, um, rent, um parts of your
grandfather’s farm?

�40:05 WV: Not, no, not really
40:06 LM: I mean that’s kind of. Yeah
40:07 WV: That’s kind of an unusual situation. And that’s where Har, Uncle Harry had
connections, and Uncle Harry of Mount Baldhead, he would not only, uh, he would take people
hunting, fishing, uh, he had a, uh,
40:24 LM: It was part of the business, like that was part of the hotel
40:25 WV: That was part of the business yeah. And he’d take, uh, he’d take them hunting out at
the snake pit which.
40:32 LM: Where’s the snake pit?
40:35 WV: Now the snake pit was, and why it got its name, was up on Silver Lake, on the other
side. You’d have to go beyond Old Allegan Road, and then go up through the woods on the other
side, and uh, my cousin bought the snake pit. And he hated that name. He bought the bought the
build a home that was, uh, Dave Tomminson
40:56 LM: Was that Harry’s son you mean? Or no, no
40:59 WV: Dave Tomminson. Uh,
41:02 LM: Oh. Ok.
41:03 WV: He ended up buying it and putting a beautiful home in there. Anyway they, uh, uh,
that was my experience with Mork, Mork Etcheson and Mr. Flaunders. Flaunders [laugh]
41:15 LM: I have a question about when I interviewed my sister and she was here in the 60’s
[cough] in the mid 60’s. Just for a couple of summers. And one of the questions in here is
[cough] also, did you, when you were in Saugatuck, did you spend much time in Douglas, or did
you, my sister said “I don’t even remember Douglas at all.” Well, I mean, is that, yeah, yeah
41:38 WV That is a good question. And, uh, they have the best harbor
41:43 LM: Best harbor
41:43 WV: Hardware.
41:44 LM: Douglas does
41:45 WV: Douglas. Douglas did have the best hardware, downtown
41:48 LM: Oh, the harbor (?)! Oh I thought you said hardware

�41:53 WV: Best hard ware (?) . Hard ware.
41:58 LM: Oh. Ok. Well where was it
41:59 WV: It’s right where a couple galleries are, across the street from the police station. Is
that? Yeah. Right across the street from the police station.
42:10 LM: Oh right over! Yeah! Right up here. Yeah! Where the, right where are we
42:12 WV: Yeah. It was right through here. Yeah. It’s on that side of the police station. And
that was all the hard ware. They had two or three buildings in there.
42:22 LM: Oh really? It was a big hardware store.
42:23 WV: It was a big hardware. And he carried a lot of stuff, so we came over here all the
time.
42:26 LM: Oh that’s interesting.
42:27 WV: For hardware
42:28 LM: But not for anything else really. Not really?
42:30 WV: Not really for, no, not really. And my mother kept saying, she was a futurist. She
said, “You know, Saugatuck thinks they’re so hot. They are, but the sleeping giant is Douglas.”
42:44 LM: Douglas
42:46 WV: She says, “You wait and see what happens in the future of Douglas.” She said the
same thing in Grand Rapids.
42:52 LM: That’s interesting.
42:52 WV: She said, uh, “They don’t appreciate the water front. They just think it’s a sewer
running through it. And you watch. If they’re intelligent, they will beautify that river and”—
43:06 LM: When did she say that? Long time ago.
43: 07 WV: Oh gosh. Back, I don’t know. 50’s
43:08 LM: 50’s.
43:10 WV: Yeah. Now, the hotel, going back to the hotel, that was, Aunt Rea had wonderful
parties after Harry died especially. I don’t remember Uncle Harry too much at the parties. I think
the parties were afterward. Maybe with the family. And---

�43:27 LM: Maybe she was a party girl.
43:30 WV: She was, yeah, Aunt Verna, her sister, lived on the farm with Uncle Russel. Aunt
Verna was very homely she felt, and she was not pretty like Aunt Rea. Aunt Rea was a beautiful
woman, and Aunt Rhea had money, and uh, and she had servants because the hotel would hire
lots of servants, and when they needed help over at the house, they might do in the basement
some laundry. Especially laundry, and uh, uh, [laugh] just brought up Uncle Harry.
44:03 LM: I’m curious, I’m curious about the servants. Where did people come from that
worked in Saugatuck in the summers?
44:10 WV: Yeah, right here, just around, yeah
44:10 LM: They came from just around?
44:14 WV: The farms and so forth, there was a good job
44:14 LM: Farms and
44:16 WV: Yeah, my, like my uncle’s, you know, a lot of his farm when they butchered
chickens and eggs and so forth, the hotel had the restaurant going. And in our barn, years later,
they upgraded their refrigerator. They had an old ice box that was from here to here. That’s how
big it was. It was a good 10 to 15-foot-long ice box. And then it was converted to a motor
coolant, so it could keep cool. We took that, we put that in our barn for when we had blueberries.
And, uh, the, where my, where the Macintoshes came in, they had a sale for a few little blue
berries at the hotel. That was a specialty, in season.
45:05 LM: Oh, really, yeah. I was going to ask you about that, yeah.
45:08 WV: Now my father decided to grow blueberries. We had the foundry in Grand Rapids
where the Ford Museum was. He decided to get, uh, 20, 30 acres of blueberries in Saugatuck so
he could retire and have the blueberries. Well, him my brother went in together. My father was
90% of it. And, uh,
45:32 LM: Was this the older brother you were talking about before?
45:34 WV: This was my older brother Max. And they went in and planted uh, blueberries, and
we had 10 or 15 acres already plus 20 more acres to plant, and, uh, the, uh, neither one could
work in the blueberries, so I had to. And I loved it. My mother would come down during the
week. Some of the weeks she could. And we had apartments up in Grand Rapids. She had to take
care of and so forth. And, uh,
46:05 LM: So where were you living then? Were you living on the farm then, when you did
that?
46:10 WV: No, well, I personally lived on the farm. I was stuck there at about 10 years old

�46:14 LM: 10 years old, yeah
46:14 WV: Yeah. For the most part of the summer, well, my uncle was up there with. But you
know, they wouldn’t allow that in law today. They certainly would not allow a child to be alone
[laugh]
46:20 LM: So
46:25 WV: There’s no reason for a child not to be alone if they’re responsible
46:25 LM: Mmhm, yeah, so you, yeah. So you stayed there with your uncle? Or sometimes you
were alone?
46:34 WV: No, I stayed in the farm house
46:36 LM: Oh did you
46:38 WV: The Macintosh house, and times I would go up and stay with them and have dinner.
And they had bedrooms on the upper floor for the kids and they had already gone off and uh,
46:48 LM: And your other grandparents right? Did you say?
46:50 WV: They were across the way, right. The Macintosh
46:50 LM: Were they still alive then, your grandparents?
46:54 WV: Uh, no. They were, they were gone in 1964, my uncle came to my high school
graduation at Union High School in Grand Rapids. And he died about 2, 3 months later. So it
must have been pretty, because we have pictures of them in my mother’s rose garden in Grand
Rapids. Uh, they, uh, he was, he was a fascinating guy. He was shot in the leg. He couldn’t use
one of the legs, he
47:28 LM: And this was World War ?
47:28 WV: one
47:30 LM: One
47:30 WV: Yeah.
47:31 LM: That was your uncle
47:32 WV: That was. He went into the farm because that’s a way he could
47:34 LM: Right, because he could

�47:37 WV: They were all taught, they were all teachers. Um, Aunt Verna was a teacher. Uncle
Russel was a teacher. They were all teachers, but, uh, I mean, that’s what they did. They all were
teachers almost. Except the last 3 or 4 that couldn’t go to college.
47:50 LM: Where were they educated? Where did they go to school? What universities?
Around, like Kendell or Western, Michigan State?
47:55 WV: Um, most of the went to Michigan agriculture. And my grandfather had a problem,
Grandfather Valleau had a problem with that because of financing all these kids. So what he did
was he bought the farm.
48:07 LM: There were 14. That was the one that had 14.
48:09 WV: Yeah. Well they, yeah. Even generations back they did. Uh, they bought the farm
adjoining the college building. So the fence between the old college brick building and the farm
was theirs. They bought it so they could, they could, um, uh, um, it was cheaper than having
them stay in area. They could, they could take all their kids and push them into the college.
48:42 LM: You’re talking about the farm, uh, which university? You said the agriculture
48:44 WV: That was, that was, uh Michigan State
48:47 LM: Michigan State. Oh, so you had farms all over the place.
48:52 WV: Well, oh, yeah. They did, yeah. He also had religion, uh, uh, he, uh, he’s on the
history. Actually. He’s on the computer in the history, uh, about the following he had. Uh, he
made two Jesus Christ movies. This was, what?
49:10 JV: in Hollywood
49:11 WV: In Hollywood, right.
49:12 LM: He did?
49:12 WV: And he brought back a burlap sack full of money, and he brought it. How he got the
movies was he, mor, this is another whole story this
49:22 LM: This was your dad, your
49:22 WV: This was my grandfather.
49:24 LM: This was your grandfather on your father’s side
49:24 WV: This was my grandfather on my father’s side. Yeah, he was a, uh, have heard, um,
Argus, Argus Camera. Do you ever remember Argus?

�49:34 LM :No
49:34 WV: That was back in the 50’s
49:36 LM: OK.
49:36 WV: And the reason Argus really got a hold of the market like Kodak did after, Argus
invented something, and he first though took two pictures. And those were, uh 3 pictures, uh, of
the World War two, I guess. World War one, and then he had taken, he had taken a picture of my
grandfather holding a picture frame. And that was the staff of Jesus. My father, grandfather
looked like, he looked like the pictures of Jesus. And then, uh, then it was picked up, and it was
considered the top photograph, and there was a, I think there was a plain. He took a picture of
that or something. Uh, anyway there’s a museum up north on him, uh, I understand. I’ve never
gone. It’s kind of crazy, but one time it got into the Grand Rapids Press, and they talked about
my grandfather in the Grand Rapids Press. And they got it all wrong. They said he was a hippie.
And uh
50:44 LM: [laugh] he wasn’t
50:44 WV: And they said he didn’t believe in bathing. Well, he bathed all the time. He believed
in nudity. Yes. Up to a certain extent. He wore underwear. So they retracted it because it wasn’t
true at all. And they were just, well, the editor said, “Well, I was trying to make it a little bit
more flairy.” But he had a following of people when he came back from Hollywood. He didn’t
want the money. His family was very upset about that. Uh, my father wasn’t, but the rest of the
family were very upset that they weren’t getting this, any of this money. And he was giving it
away to Argus. He put all this money on Argus’ table. And he said uh, I’m not even sure if the
guy’s name was Argus, but it’s Argus camera he owned. Anyway he said, “no, no, no, no. You
earned that. The photograph I earned. And I have a reputation for that photograph.” And it ended
up that, uh, he went out into the street and started handing it to people He thought
51:53 LM: Really!
51:52 WV: So he gave all the money away
51:53 LM: He gave all the money away?
51:55 WV: And it was quite a bit it was
51:55 LM: Was that here? Or is it in Grand Rapids or here?
51:58 WV: It was probably; you know I really don’t know where it was.
52:02 LM: Did your dad spend a lot of time here, or was he mostly in Saugatuck or both
52:10 WV: uh, my father, uh---

�52:10 LM: Sorry, because there’s so many people in your family that I’m getting them
confused
52:13 WV: [laugh] uh, I, well we moved to Grand Rapids
52:15 LM: Yeah.
52:16 WV: In the move he worked for a foundry there. Haring Brass foundry
52:20 LM: Oh. Ok.
52:21 WV: And Haring was the old blacksmith, the name of the black smith foundry before
that. But it was called Haring because, well I guess too much detail. Uh, Atwood Haring were
brother-in-law’s.
52:37 LM: Yeah, so more, it was more like from what I’m understanding, it was more like a
couple. Your uncle and your aunt that lived around here
52:45 WV: Here. Yes. My uncle and aunt lived here, and they lived after my grandparents were
gone. Cause my grandmother died way before that. She was a woman’s liberty.
52:59 LM: Oh, was she?
53:01 WV: Libert—oh she was famous right
53:02 LM: Oh for suffrage. Suffrage woman.
53:05 WV: Oh, she had letters even presidential letters, all
53:09 LM: Who was this, your mother
53:10 WV: My, no, my uh
53:11 JV: Mother’s mother
53:12 WV: my grandmother
53:15 JV: your mother’s mother
53:16 WV: Macintosh. Yeah
53:17 LM: Oh, oh yeah, that’s on your mother. Yeah the mother side
53:20 WV: Yeah. She was very into that, and uh, they had lost two of their daughters in
Allegan from diphtheria and something else.

�53:28 LM: Oh,
53:29 JV: Meningitis I think
53:30 WV: And meningitis.
53:31 JV Yeah, infection
53:33 WV: And my mother was the youngest of the three. And so my mother had problems too.
She couldn’t go to school because of her irregular heart beat
53:45 phone rings in background
53:46 LM: Oh, sorry. I’ll just turn this off
53:47 sounds of jostling.
53:55 LM: yeah, um
53:57 WV: So she was home taught.
53:58 LM: So really, so your mother the, your mother side they were always around here then
54:04 WV: Yeah, and so were the Valleaus. They were here way back
54:07 LM: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about, I’m curious. I haven’t been following this at
all, but I don’t think that matters. We’re certainly, we’re certainly talking about interesting stuff
so, it’s fine. But you, you said it was your mother that went to Oxbow, right?
54:25 WV: Yes. About 1915
54:26 LM: So how did
54:29 WV:16. She was a child prodigy
54:30 LM: Really?
54:31 WV: Yeah. That’s
54:34 LM: Do you have a lot of her paintings and
54:35 WV: Yes.
54:38 LM: Do you?
54:38 WV: yeah

�54:39 LM: were there many women at the Oxbow then or not? Was that very rare?
54:40 WV: There were, um, I’m trying to think. Some of them
54:44 LM: When was she born? When was she born? Your mom?
54:45 JV: 1905
54:45 WV: She was born in 1905
54:47 LM: 1905
54:47 WV: mmhm. So what happened was, uh, she because of Fursman, and Fursman never
complimented anyone in art. This wasn’t a complimenter. And she said I got one of the first
compliments I ever heard him give anyone for her painting. Uh, Carl Herman said “I want to
learn your method. You have a unique way” and she did
55:12 LM: And she, she never went to any institute or anything. She was self, kind of selftaught or,
55:15 WV: She was self-taught, yes. It came to here. And one of the things that probably, she
gave up her art while Carl kept going, and his wife, his wife finished up a lot of the paintings.
55:30 JV: Christine
55:31 WV: Christina, yeah. So, some of the paintings are, uh, and she wasn’t bad. She was
pretty good. But you can tell, I couldn’t, but my mother could tell, where she was going to, any
way. She, uh
55:48 LM: Did your mom stay involved in Oxbow at all even though, I mean she was having
kids. How many, how many are there are there of your family?
55:52 WV: She left the, she didn’t for a while, well Oxbow died too a little bit. It didn’t totally
die, but it went way down. It got, uh, uh, a bad reputation for
56:08 LM: When would that have been, like when
56:09 WV: 50’s, 60’s. Was it 60’s? 70’s? I don’t remember. Uh. Joan’s side, she has another
whole story. Her family owned property, uh, the, why don’t you tell it
56:26 JV: Uh, just a lot of, uh, the information that I have is that there was a tent city from, uh,
Mount Baldie to, uh,
56:40 WV: Oxbow

�56:41 JV: Oxbow. And they were involved in the tent city there.
56:45 LM: So like religious, the religious
56:46 WV: no
56:47 JV: just slabs, slabs of cotton, concrete with tents, uh, and then the cottages got
developed. And through the family, we had on my father’s side had a number of the cottages that
are still there, that are, you know. That are there. That are present. That are present. Uh, they had
ownership of tha number of the cottages there.
57:15 WV: What was
57:18 JV: Yeah, it was the Mueller. The Mueller, Mueller family. And my dad, Anderson
57:22 LM: Was that your, was that your, um, maiden name?
57:24 JV: Anderson and the Muellers.
57:27 LM: Anderson and Muellers
57:29 JV: On my father’s side
57:30 LM: On your father’s side
57:31 JV: yeah, he was Anderson. Then his mother was a Mueller. And um, so um, lot of uh,
and his mother was, uh, an artist. And she also was involved with Oxbow
57:47 LM: Oxbow.
57:49 JV: And then she also had a sister, uh, Aunt Hazel. And was a character. And she would
love to swim, and she would dive off the, as the story goes, she would dive off the masts of these
big boats that were docked along the Kalamazoo River and dive into the water.
58:12 LM: Oh really?
58:13 JV: And, and swim in the Kalamazoo River, and uh, and they, her husband, had a big
cottage, and we stayed, you know, visit them, and uh, my, so with my father’s father having the
history of Saugatuck, they bought property on Silver Lake in the, in 46, after the war. And, uh,
presently we have that, uh, property on Silver Lake. And, uh, my grandfather would take, um,
the large boats from Chicago, and they would dock in Saugatuck. And had a little motor boat.
And he would take the motor boat and take it into Silver Lake and be at the cottage. So in 46, uh,
um, he and my father and his, and his dad built the cottage by hand.
59:22 LM: Oh did they?

�59:24 JV: Um, with no electricity. So we had an outhouse, and uh, pot belly stove when I was a
little girl, and then eventually we improved as time went along.
59:34 LM: So you spent summers on Silver Lake?
59:37 JV: Summers
59:38 LM: And winters where?
59:38 JV: In Chicago.
59:40 LM: Chicago.
59:41 JV: And, uh, so my grandmother would stay at the cottage. With his, with her
grandchildren. And then my grandfather would come during the weekend to bring groceries and
supplies because she had no car. She was just right there.
1:00:01

LM: How far is Silver Lake?

1:00:02

JV: Silver Lake is right on the, by old Allegan Road.

1:00:04

LM: Oh, ok.

1:00:05

JV: Oh Allegan Road before 63rd Street. All those drives that go straight down

1:00:10

LM: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know that

1:00:15

JV: Yeah, you can just see it, it from, from the

1:00:17

LM: So it’s close

1:00:18

JV: Yeah, it’s right here

1:00:20

LM: Did you, did you go to Saugatuck much from the from the cottage

1:00:24
JV: Oh yes. Growing up in the 60’s, 50’s and 60’s yeah. Yes. I had a great
childhood enjoying um, um, the boating, swimming, uh, I was a lifeguard, or, took lessons at
Goshard Lake and then
1:00:40

WV: She saved two children

1:00:44

LM: Did you really?

1:00:46

JV: I, I, at Goshard Lake, or where?

�1:00:49
LM: No, no, on Lake Michigan. I was a life guard, I mean I was a life guard
instructor at um, Goshard Lake, um, right now I’m trying to think of the family that was
involved. Um Crawford[mutters] Bob Crawford and I were instructors over there. And um, also
during that time we had the paddle boat. Um, the, the um
1:01:20

WV: Island Queen? Yeah. Island Queen.

1:01:21

JV: The um Island Queen um, was owned by

1:01:28

WV: Dick

1:01:28
JV: Dick Hoffman. And Dick Hoffman due to the fact that in the 70’s was quite
a, quite a college, college, college town. And he was concerned about the paddle boat. So he
would take the paddle boat and moor it in at Silver Lake. And so I got experience from going
back and forth
1:01:54

LM: Oh, going back and forth

1:01:57
JV: Uh, during that time all the kids would be able to get on the boat. He would
take the kids back to Saugatuck, but he would moor the, moor the paddleboats there
1:02:10

WV: I didn’t know that

1:02:11

JV: During the college, the college kids where in Saugatuck

1:02:15

WV: Hot town tonight!

1:02:15

LM: [laugh] right

1:02:17

WV: See those cops? Throw beer bottles at ‘em!

1:02:18

LM: Well that’s one of the questions

1:02:18
JV: The kids, and that’s during that time that the college kids were on top of the
old Crow and uh, all these, and the lampposts, remember, when I was a kids being in the back of
the car and just watching as we drove through town watching these college kids everywhere. On
the roofs.
1:02:45

LM: Were they really

1:02:46

JV: And that was

1:02:46

LM: It was summer?

1:02:47

JV: Probably probably the major weekends were the holiday weekends.

�1:02:52

WV: And the hot concerts

1:02:54

LM: And that would have been when you were a little kid?

1:02:58

JV: Little kid, little kids

1:02:59

LM: So that would have been when, in the 50’s?

1:03:00

JV: 50, 60, uh 60’s. I would say

1:03:03

LM: 60’s yeah. Ok

1:03:05

JV: Um, later, yeah. Yeah, about 50, 61, I would have been 10 years old. So, yeah

1:03:16

LM: Ok. You’re about my age. I was born in 1950. Yeah, yeah.

1:03:17

JV: So. It’s those memories, of, oh my

1:03:25

WV: They had filled up the concert that they had

1:03:30
you get into

LM: Yeah, they mentioned a couple, my question is what kind of shenanigans did

1:03:32

WV: Well, I [laugh]

1:03:35
LM: Were you a participant, an instigator, or by stander, and then what was your
impression of law enforcement in Saugatuck Douglas? Um, what special events did you attend,
like music festivals, auto or motorcycle races, or parties? Were these organized events, or
informal? And describe a scene, and you just did describe a scene about, [laugh] the kids hanging
off
1:04:02

WV: Oh, that was something

1:04:04

LM: But you remember well

1:04:05

JV: Yes.

1:04:06

LM: Was it because they were drunk or? What?

1:04:08

JV: oh just having a good time

1:04:08

LM: Just having a good time. Fun

1:04:10

WV: And they, you know, on 63rd, they had the big concert. You know there was

1:04:18

LM: Oh, I’ve heard about it. Yeah.

�1:04:19

WV: And that was, uh,

1:04:20

LM: But that was in the 60’s wasn’t it? Was that in the 60;s

1:04:21

WV: Masters.

1:04:22

LM: Masters

1:04:23
WV: L. Master. She had, they had grown bushes there, and uh, it was backed up.
Saugatuck was backed up almost half to Holland
1:04:34

LM: Was it?

1:04:34

WV: On the side of the road, on the highway.

1:04:35

LM: Really? Was that just one festival? See I left in 196-

1:04:38

WV: I think it was one festival

1:04:42
LM: I left in 1969 and went to the east coast. So, um, I used to come back and
visit my parents, but I’d never come over here. So I knew about some of these
1:04:50

WV: That was an exciting time.

1:04:52

LM: [laugh] yeah. Of course

1:04:58
WV: Yeah. The excitement. Anyway. They had no place to stay. They had no
place to park. The whole thing was filled. Police had
1:05:05
right?

LM: How many people came to that? Do you know? Was it, it was thousands,

1:05:09
WV: We could ask the Masters. They could give you, you know the kids could
give you the numbers I think, but it was thousands. It was oversold
1:05:15
happened?

LM: Was it? And that was, when was that? Late 60’s or mid 60’s when that

1:05:23

WV: I would say that was early uh, let’s see

1:05:25

LM: They probably got information out of it. I don’t know.

1:05:26

WV: Probably about 64. I would imagine. Somewhere in there.

1:05:30

JV: We’ve gone over an hour

�1:05:35
LM: We’ll keep talking a little bit, and then we’ll have to wrap up, but, yeah, I
mean God. I’m just going to look to see if any of these questions can be, um, uh. Let’s see.
Favorite memories. Is, oh. Oh yeah. Wrap it up. Ok. [laugh] That’s Nathan. It’s his office. Oh
poop. There’s so much to talk about. But I guess, I guess we’ll have to, we’ll have to wrap it up.
And you know, maybe they’ll ask you to come in again, because there’s so much, and you’ve got
a lot of stories too
1:06:13

WV: Yeah. Things I haven’t heard

1:06:14
LM: Oh really? [laugh]. Well I want to thank you for your time and, I mean,
you’ve got me more invested in Saugatuck history, but I mean, you’ve got like
1:06:24

WV: The foundry alone was

1:06:26

LM: I know! The foundry alone was

1:06:30
JV: The foundry alone was Warren’s in 71, and he was licensed for Greenfeld
village and Henry Ford Museum
1:06:34
about it?

LM: Oh really? Do they have information on this? Have you talked to Nathan

1:06:41

WV: No

1:06:41
JV: This was, this was our introduction to talk to someone to talk about the hotel
to get to know more information, but Warren’s foundry on 63rd street, where they built the
1:06:58

LM: Is a story in itself

1:06:58

JV: Is a story

1:07:00

WV: The Gerry Ford the whole thing

1:07:02

LM: Yeah, ok. Well I’ll stop it, and then we can

recording stops 1:07:05

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                    <text>Howard Shultz- Interview by Eric Gollaneck and Megan Stevens
October 4, 2018
0:03

EG: Hello. This is Eric Gollaneck

0:05

MS: And Megan Stevens

0:06

EG: And I’m here today with

0:08

HS: Howard Schultz

0:10 EG: At the old school house in Douglas, Michigan, on October the 4th 2018. This oral
history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer project, which is supported in part by
a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank
you for taking the time to talk with us today. We’re interested in a little more about your
family’s history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck/Douglas areas. Can you tell
us your name again and spell it for us?
0:37

HS: Howard Schultz. H-O-W-A-R-D. initial E. Schultz. S-C-H-U-L-T-Z

0:45 EG: Thanks so much, Howard. Uh, so let’s start out, just give us a little bit of background.
I know you’ve been interviewed before in connection with the fuel school house project several
years ago. Uh, tell us a little about where you grew up. Some of your background.
1:00 HS: I was born in the Kirby house in Douglas in 1935 on January 16th. I spent the first five
years of my life in downtown Douglas. I lived in what had been the old Fenville, the old phone
exchange building next to the Norton Drug Store. [clears throat]
1:22

EG: All right

1:23

HS: None of which exists anymore

1:24

EG: [Laugh]

1:25

HS: Uh, the first five years of my life were on the streets of Douglas.

1:28

EG: [laugh]

1:28

MS: [laugh]

1:29 HS: There was a hotel on the corner. There were people coming and going. There was,
oh, a party type store in the middle.
1:38

EG: Yeah

�1:39 HS: There was a restaurant across the street, a hotel, as I said, right on the corner, and a
young girl about my age, so I could go beat on her once in a while.
1:47

EG: [laugh]

1:48 HS: so, uh, it was pretty eventful for the first five years, but I don’t remember it at all, of
course.
1:53

EG: Right

1:55 HS: We moved to a house up on the hill in Douglas, which was on what we called River
Road in those days. Going east towards Fennville and Allegan. [clear throat] And that was in
1940. And my first recollection of that move was I could just barely reach the door handle.
2:12

EG: [laugh]

2:13

HS: Which is, so I was upright at least.

2:15

MS: Yeah. [laugh]

2:15

EG: Right. Right. So in early childhood. Did you live in that house for a number of years?

2:19 HS: We lived in that years, I stayed in that house, grew out of that house till 1953 when I
graduated from high school and went away to college in Indiana.
2:30

EG: All right. Where-where did you go to coll— what school specifically?

2:33

HS: Indiana Technical College

2:34

EG: Oh, ok.

2:35

HS: In Fort Wayne, Indiana.

2:37

EG: What’d you study there?

2:38

HS: I studied mechanical engineering.

2:40

EG: All right. Very interesting.

2:43

HS: Yeah. Do you want anything in between?

2:44

EG: [laugh]

�2:44

MS: [laugh]

2:45 EG: We’ll, we’ll circle back on a couple of things here. So, but just to lay it out I know
you’ve got, uh, deep family connections in the area here, but tell us a little bit about your, your
family, about your parents, their names, and siblings you had.
3:01 HS: [clear throat], well my father was the, at the time when I was born worked for the,
what was the state highway department.
3:09

EG: Mm

3:09 HS: At the time. And their garage is right across the street from the Kirby House, which
is the ex-garage and, and a bunch of other things. He worked there, and, in 1940, of course,
World War Two was just going into swing. And a lot of the boys were being pulled away, and
my dad ended up working for the village of Douglas. He was village clerk already, from 1932 on,
he’d been village clerk, and he ended up being the street commissioner, for, for the town, and
the treasurer at one time. And he was on the school board.
3:48

EG: [laugh]

3:48 HS: several years. And he was, uh, uh, with the Masonic temple. He was past master
several times. So he was a pretty major player in town for a while.
3:58

EG: Right

3:58

MS: Yeah

3:58 HS: There weren’t many people in those days. The town had about five hundred people,
and we probably had close to three hundred going off someplace.
4:08

EG: Right

4:08 HS: You know, that could, able bodied people. A lot of people went away to the war,
either in the war directly
4:14

EG: Mhm

4:14

HS: Or the war effort.

4:15

EG: Absolutely. What, how old was he in 1940? What year was he born?

4:20

HS: He was born in, I think 1905.

4:24

EG: Ok. Yeah.

�4:26 HS: and, uh, [clear throat] My mother is a, she was a Chase family. And Chase family was
north of, north of town. South of town, on what is now Blue Star Highway. It was US 31 aft-afterwards. But the road, there’s an old map in our system that called it the Chase Road.
4:44

EG: Ok.

4:44 HS: Because the highway, actually, the main highway was out on the lakeshore. And
they came through and went across the highway went across Saugatuck to the car ferry.
4:55

EG: Mhm

4:56 HS: That was the only place they could cross to Kalamazoo down here [clear throat] until
they built the Douglas bridge, which goes way back into the 1800’s
5:03

EG: hmm

5:04

HS: But my mother went to, um, Saugatuck High School as I did. She graduated in 1922.

5:10

EG: hm

5:11 HS: Um, curiously the, the school burned. She was in class at Saugatuck High School, and
it also burned when I went to Saugatuck High School
5:19

EG: [laugh]

5:19

MS: [laugh]

5:23 EG: You haven’t, you don’t have any grandkids that are in Saugatuck, that are in
Saugatuck High School do you? That we should, uh
5:25

MS: [laugh]

5:28 HS: I have no idea, uh, what caused either of them. Um, I don’t know the details of my
mother’s except that she said that it burned. I don’t know anything about that. But our’s, it
burned everything but the, um, gymnasium.
5:42

MS: Oh wow.

5:42 HS: We, we were able to keep going. We portioned the gymnasium in half, we could still
have half room classes with the portable walls. We still had a few classrooms there. And some
of the classes were in one of the churches. I can’t, I don’t have any detail about any of that, but
it was the younger classes they went to high school. High school was at the, um, still at the
building, at the location. On top of the hill. That’s the high school that was on top of the hill.

�6:09

EG: hm.

6:09

HS: Right now there’s nothing but condos up there.

6:12

EG: Hm

6:14 HS: And that’s where we graduated. We were back into a new building my senior year,
uh, that was my sophomore year I think when it burned. Took them a couple of years they, they
were talking about building a high school, not building a high school. And we even had a parade
when the council was voting on whether to bond to build a new school.
6:38

EG: mm hm

6:38

MS: mm hm

6:38 HS: Or not, and we had a parade and said “Your children do not want to wear wooden
shoes.
6:43

EG: [laugh]

6:43

HS: Because the plan was either to amend our system with Holland’s or Fennville

6:50

MS: Oh

6:50 HS: And a quite a few of our kids already, because freedom of choice, school of choice,
freedom
6:56

EG: mm. yeah

6:56

MS: mm hm

6:57 HS: Had just kicked in, and some of our kids right out of town, Douglas went to
Fennville.
7:02

EG: right

7:02

HS: Which Fennville didn’t have a good reputation in those days

7:05

EG: hm

7:06 HS: And Saugatuck was, we were down to, well my class, in my time frame it was like
fifty students for the whole school

�7:12

MS: Oh wow

7:13

HS: [clear throat]

7:14

EG: yeah.

7:14 HS: And there wasn’t that big build up that you have now in Saugatuck Township
around, between here and Holland.
7:20

EG: mm

7:22 HS: And that’s brought a lot of the kids in from rather than go to Holland, they came to
Saugatuck. And so, that’s why that got divided up. Uh, I don’t know how long that school lasted,
uh, but I was surprised to come home, we were overseas for a while with my job right after I
got out of college
7:38

EG: mm

7:38 HS: And I came back home, and they had torn that school down and turned it into a
condo and rebuilt the one that they have now up on the hill which you probably know where
that is.
7:47

EG: mm hm. Yeah. We’ve been there with the Contemporary Stories

7:50

MS: Yeah

7:51

EG: of Saugatuck Project

7:52

HS: that [clear throat] was a major, major issue for this city

7:57

EG: yeah

7:58

HS: to build that major, major school

8:00

MS: Yeah

8:00 HS: In the face of the type of the population we must have had in those days. No major
bondage in other words
8:06

EG: Right.

8:08

HS: And anyway, they ended up with a nice point up there.

8:09

EG: Tell, tell us more about that parade. Where you involved

�8:11

HS: Oh yeah, sure.

8:11

EG: in that at all?

8:14

HS: We made signs and carried them. Marched up and down the street.

8:16

MS: [laugh]

8:16 HS: Talking about we don’t wear, and, and, the cheerleaders’ head cheerleader, I
assumed it was head cheerleader
8:25

EG: [laugh]

8:26

HS: She and, and I probably were the leaders because I was in basketball at that time.

8:30

EG: Ok

8:33 HS: And uh, put that parade together and marched up and down the street the night the
council was meeting
8:36

EG: Yeah

8:37

HS: Her dad was president of the council

8:39

EG: Oh, wow.

8:39

HS: He was another of the major fathers who were around.

8:42

EG: yeah

8:42

MS: Mm hm

8:42

HS: So the vote went, “We’re gonna build”

8:45

EG: What, do you remember what year that was?

8:49

HS: Probably about 1950

8:50

EG: mm. Ok.

8:52

HS: 51, at at the most. I don’t know for sure.

8:54

EG: Yeah. Community schools. That’s still a, still a powerful issue, right?

�9:00

HS: Yeah.

9:00

EG: Lots of strong feelings about it.

9:02 HS: So that was, uh, and that was a nice thing to happen. They built a very nice school
out of it. We were in the process, my senior class, our shop class was building, was building a
new shop.
9:15

Unkown: You taping?

9:16

MS: Yeah sorry

9:18

EG: Mmhm yeah

9:20

HS: My shop class was building new racks and things for the shop

9:24

EG: Ok

9:25

HS: Which we hadn’t had a shop before

9:26

EG: Ok. Yeah. So this was new.

9:28

HS: Yeah. It was a new thing.

9:30

EG: Was it woodworking, wood working shop? Metal working?

9:32

HS: Uh, mostly wood working

9:34

EG: Yeah.

9:34

HS: I don’t recall much metal working stuff. Might of had couple of pieces

9:39

EG: yeah.

9:39

HS: But no welders or stuff like that

9:41

EG: Some brakes or something like that. Sure.

9:41

HS: Mm

9:45

EG: Yeah

9:45

HS: It was nice, it was going to be a nice school for a couple of students

�9:49

EG: right

9:49

HS: But I didn’t get to see it much, yeah.

9:50

EG: You were put to work.

9:52

HS: I was working elsewhere.

9:53 EG: Right. Absolutely. Yeah. So we’ve had, we’ve interviewed you about the Douglas
school, the Union school building we’re sitting in right now. Uh, anything in particular you want
to share about that? Uh, about your, your youth in Douglas?
10:09 HS: Well
10:09 EG: Or kind of pre-high school years or middle school
10:11 HS: At various, at various times I’ve helped out, Jim Smeeken and uh, uh, (pause) uh,
what’s his name with the, with the photos? Haven’t seen him in quite a while now. Jack!
10:29 EG: Oh, Jack Sheridan
10:30 HS: Jack Sheridan
10:31 EG: Yeah
10:31 HS: Um, I try to, try to help them out with photographs, they were hanging
photographs. And I have quite a few and I turned them in down at the basement.
10: 39 EG: Right
10:40 HS: Storage for various things
10:42 EG: yeah
10:43 HS: And uh, but I’ve said, and I just said it to Nathan, not too long ago, I can identify a lot
of the names on those picutres for class attendees
10:51 EG: m hm. Yeah.
10:53 HS: for various ones we have for graduation classes, and, or other sub graduating,
several classes Not graduates, but just class
10:58 EG: right

�11:00 HS: Photos
11:00 EG: Yeah
11:01 HS: which was a common thing. We used to we used take because there weren’t that
many people
11:04 EG: Yeah
11:04 HS: Class photos every, every year for a while. Some have, maybe not been taken or
some haven’t surfaced, but everyone that I’ve ever seen I made sure they’ve got copies here.
11:15 EG: Right. Yeah. No. That- that’s
11:17 HS: My sister, my sister also and she had several classes that, you know, where beyond
me, behind me. She was five years younger than I.
11:24 EG: Yeah. tell me a little bit about your siblings. We’ve asked about that, and we, come
back to that for a second. Tell me about your siblings
11:31 HS: Well, I had one daughter. Sister, I mean. One sister, and my folks had twins.
11:37 EG: Hm.
11:37 HS: And the one daughter did not survive. So I had one sister that survived.
11:42 EG: And what was your sister, what’s your sister’s name?
11:45 HS: Her name was Judy. Judith Anne. And she married a Lovejoy, finally
11:50 EG: [laugh]
11:51 HS: After, uh, a period of time in school and, uh, working in Saugatuck. So, she was kind
of at home, helping my dad with book work a lot. She took bookkeeping at MSU, and so she
stayed there until her, um, husband-to-be was in the Navy.
12:08 EG: Mm hm
12:10 HS: Until he had the chance to get out, and you know, got reassigned to locations
someplace.
12:15 EG: Right. Right. They moved away. Did they come back?

�12:17 HS: They moved. They were in Jacksonville, Florida, for a while.
12:21 EG: Hm.
12:22 HS: And he’d been in Green, Greenland for years. Frank Lovejoy
12:26 EG: Hmm
12:27 HS: He’d been there for a few years. And, uh, his career was photographic for the, for
the military.
12:31 EG: Ok.
12:32 HS: So, uh, he had a good chance at a career, but he gave up on that. He came back to
Saugatuck and worked here. There were factories here. There was Crampton’s out here, which
is, uh, whatever the factory is now that’s about three, three generations beyond the last
12:49 EG: mhm
12:50 HS: at that, at that property, during the war there was a lot of factory jobs. Jobs going
everywhere that people could work at.
12:57 EG: Right
12:59 HS: So anyway we, uh, the town was, I feel very uh, fortunate, uh, at one time we had a
memory board, uh, military board at the corner of the park down there. Berry field?
13:14 EG: Yes
13:15 HS: And it had a list of people and no one got, of the town people got directly killed in
the war.
13:24 EG: hmm
13:24 HS: They all came back
13:26 EG: Ok
13:26 HS: They all came back. There were a couple of losses later
13:31 EG: Yeah
13:31 HS: Neighbor, neighboring areas

�13:35 EG: mm hm
13:35 HS: That I knew about personally. Where a couple of guys got, got killed but,
13:39 EG: Yeah
13:40 HS: One was on a, he come back and was flying a, uh, crop dusting planes,
13:47 EG: hmm
13:47 HS: Because in the military, they’d learned to fly some of them
13:50 EG: Right. Yeah.
13:51 HS: And uh, that was one of the interesting stories. I started to talk to Mary last night
13:57 EG: About the airport?
13:57 HS: About the airport
13:58 EG: Yeah
13:59 HS: Because, um, the Crane family who are still in Fennville with the apple orchards
14:03 EG: Right
14:03 HS: Um, among other things, are, um. The Cranes didn’t have hillsides or room to build
an airport. One of their sons had wanted to fly. So the Cranes built an airport right down here,
which is now on Blue Star right at the exit, at the the interchange, the expressway
14:22 EG: Oh really?
14:24 HS: Yes. That was an airport down there.
14:25 EG: All right.
14:26 HS: And uh, he built a T-shaped airport. Across- cross
14:30 EG: mm hm
14:30 HS: Uh, east west, and north south. And their planes were coming right over our house
on Douglas
14:38 EG: [laugh]

�14:38 HS: On Water Street
14:39 EG: Yeah.
14:39 HS: As a youngster, so I had, that was right after the war, so that would have been like
49, 50
14:43 EG: mm hm
14:44 HS: Right, my years of being interested in planes
14:46 EG: Yeah
14:47 HS: So we got into model airplanes. There was a big model airplane contingent around
here at that time too
14:50 EG: [laugh]
14:52 HS: And, uh, I met a guy that got me involved and interested in going to the school in
Indiana, this technical college
14:59 EG: Ok.
15:00 HS: So it was aero and mechanical, and a lot of the school was for returning vets
15:04 EG: Sure
15:05 HS: Who could go to school on the GI
15:07 EG: Right
15:07 HS: You know, there were kids, there were people, I just met a guy the other day that
actually got pulled out of school because he was in the military. He’d been in the military,
whatever they call it. ROTC or-15:18 EG: mm hm
15:18 HS: something. And had been training in pilot, pilot, as a pilot. He was already trained
pilot
15:22 EG: Yeah
15:23 HS: In high school. He got pulled out before he graduated from high school

�15:27 EG: Wow
15:28 HS: Ended up flying B-51’s in the, the, uh Korea when Korean War started
15:33 EG: Oh wow
15:34 HS: In the 50’s
15:36 EG: Yeah
15:36 HS: I just missed, I just missed that because I went to engineering school
15:39 EG: Right
15:39 HS: On, on a, uh, deferment, deferment. Because I was going for engineering school
15:47 EG: mm hm
15:47 HS: And they wanted engineers, so
15:49 EG: Right. You’re kind of between, between those two, those two windows of time in
some ways. Between World War Two, and you’re much too young for World War Two, but
16:00 HS: We were still on the draft for the Korean War
16:03 EG: Right. Yeah.
16:05 HS:.A lot of the late guys did, and some of them already went. A lot of my, a lot of my
friends that didn’t go to school
16:11 EG: Right
16:11 HS: Went right into the, within in a year were in the, in the war
16:14 EG: Right. Yeah. Talk a little about that, that time period. It sounds like you had had, you
had memories of the second world war
16:25 HS: um
16:26 EG: or, or not much?
16:26 HS: Not much. We couldn’t do that, like it is now, at all. The only way we could find out
was, everything was censored.

�16:35 EG: Mmhm
16:35 HS: Uh, we have a bunch of letters in our, from our relatives.
16:39 EG: mm hm
16:40 HS: And, uh, they can’t say anything. They’re all military
16:43 EG: mm hm
16:44 HS: Foreign military setup
16:45 EG: Right. That- that V Mail.
16:47 HS: Yeah.
16:48 EG: That was vimeographed
16:49 HS: vimeographed and
16:50 EG: and edited
16:50 HS: and reduced and redacted and all that. Yeah that. We got some of that. So they
couldn’t say anything by mail. And the only thing that could come out was that every Saturday
we could go to Fennville. Fennville had a little movie theater.
17:01 EG: mm hm
17:02 HS: And we could go over there, and you could get that, what five minute news reel?
17:06 EG: mm hm
17:06 HS: Or something. Propaganda type news reel
17:08 EG: Right.
17:08 HS: With the boys are here and the boys are there
17:10 EG: mmhm
17:10 HS: and we’re winning this. We’re winning that.
17:12 EG: Yeah

�17:12 HS: And we need more money.
17:13 EG: Yeah.
17:13 HS: Everything was about money. You know? We were--I still have some ration, uh,
stickers for, for gasoline
17:20 EG: Right
17:22 HS: uh, my dad was getting ration stickers for my daughter, my sis, his daughter, my
sister [laugh]
17:29 EG: Yeah.
17:29 HS: When she was twelve years
17:31 EG: Right
17:32 HS: so I mean they, they were because he wanted to go deer hunting and that, he had
to use up a lot of his stickers to go up north to go deer hunting, and
17:38 EG: For sure. Yeah
17:39 HS: He never, he never missed a year of deer hunting.
17:41EG: Ok. Had to plan ahead for that one
17:42 HS: Yeah
17:43 EG: For sure
17:45 HS: So, yeah, that was about the only thing we could find out
17: 47 EG: Yeah
17:48 HS: My uncle [clear throat] one of my uncles had been in World War One that was
regular family. He was the um, postmaster in downtown Douglas. His name was Jean Campbell
17:58 EG: Ok.
17:59 HS: And, uh, he used to come over to be at my folks’ house. My folks never anywhere.
And he’d come over to the house, and he’d want to listen to the Walter Winchell Show. Radio
show, at night.

�18:08 EG: mm hm
18:09 HS: And he was embedded and talking
18:12 EG: mm hm
18:13 HS: Street’s talk, so
18:14 EG: yeah
18:15 HS: That’s what we’d find out from what was going on
18:17 EG: yeah
18:18 HS: But it was a big, big pressure on everybody’s just to live, you know? What was going
on
18:24 EG: Right
18:25 HS: My aunt went to Detroit and ended up in the war effort in a factory
18:28 EG: mhm
18:29 HS: Don’t know what, never got any details
18:31 EG: [laugh]
18:31 HS: I always thought she was putting B-29’s together
18:33 EG: [laugh]
18:34 HS: Or B-24’s together
18:35 EG: Right
18:36 HS: Um
18:37 EG: How old were you in 1945?
18:39 HS: 10
18:40 EG: Ok. Do you have memories of the end of the war?
18:43 HS: Yes. Everybody was very happy

�18:44 EG: [laugh]
18:45 HS: Very, very happy. I don’t remember the big scare about the Japanese much until
afterwards, but the Japanse were in the Aleutians
18:54 EG: mmhm
18:55 HS: And they were finding floating bombs, you know from
18:57 EG: mmhm
18:59 HS: from the
18:58 EG: yeah
18:58 HS: What do you call it, the currents?
18:59 EG: The balloon bombs
19:00 HS: balloon bombs?
19:01 EG: That they dropped yeah.
19:02 HS: yeah. Uh. Never heard much about that till afterwards.
19:06 EG: Yeah
19:07 HS: I’ve been very interested in history. War history,
19:08 EG: yeah
19:08 HS: ever since. I watch everything I can watch on TV about it
19:12 EG: hm
19:12 HS: Cause there’s this new footage coming out of Japan and Germany yet
19:15 EG: hm
19:15 HS: Both of them. So, a lot of, lot of stuff’s still coming out. Keep track of
19:20 EG: Do you remember anything on, uh, you know, the uh, VE-- VJ Day or you know

�19:26 HS: oh yeah
19:26 EG: the signing of, you know the end of the war
19:29 HS: Oh yeah
19:29 EG: Here in Douglas or in Saugatuck?
19:31 HS: Oh I don’t remember any, uh, formal celebrations, but there were a lot of gunshots
in the neighborhood
19:37 EG: [laugh] Lots of people letting off
19:40 HS: Letting off steam
19:41 EG: Letting off steam, and uh,
19:43 HS: little pressure
19:43 EG: the end of the
19:44 HS: a box of shells was precious in those days too.
19:47 EG: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. So, uh, let’s talk a little bit more about, uh, the
airport. Just to kind of clarify that some. So you mentioned the Crane brothers
19:58 HS: They built and
19:59 EG: and family
19:59 HS: and I spent some time, I worked at the Fennville Rod and Gun Club Pancake
Breakfasts
20:04 EG: mmhm
20:04 HS: And I take money there and Mr. Crane, the last still surviving of the original family,
used to come in and wait for his family. They’d get together for breakfast. He, several times,
was ahead, and he’d sit down with me and talk. And I consider those my most precious times
20:20 EG: [laugh]
20:20 HS: Cause I could talk to him about the airport.
20:24 EG: yeah.

�20:24 HS: Because I was flying model airplanes. By that time, I was with a gang of guys, you
know, we used to start with little ones and pretty soon bigger and bigger.
20:30 EG: yeah
20:31 HS: And one of the fellows was a son of the Wimple Grocery store that was mentioned
last night
20:37 EG: Yeah
20:38 HS: But from Saugatuck and he was older, he was quite a bit older than I, but he was
well entrenched in model airplanes
20:45 EG: [laugh]
20:45 HS: so he kind of led the pack
20:47 EG: yeah
20:47 HS: and that’s how I met another fellow through him that I ended up in school with
20:50 EG: yeah
20:51 HS: But, uh, Bud had gotten married and went to Western. Western had a air, air
course, uh system then. So I was kind of working with these guys, thinking that’s the way I’m
going to go
21:01 EG: right
21:02 HS: and so I was talking to Mr. Crane, and he said that was really a tight little airport. He
said, but we had now choice because we couldn’t put one over on our property
21:11 EG: hm
21:11 HS: He says the only thing that ever happened bad was one of the guys took out the
pipe, the lines one time, took out the electric lines
21:17 EG: Oh
21:17 HS: Because they were set up east/west. They didn’t get a lot of property east west.
21:23 EG: Ok

�21:23 HS: But east end, ended in woods.
21:27 EG: yeah
21:27 HS: So they had to start from there and go west and come up over the, the, the building
is still there. The little light house, uh, restaurant property is there.
21:36 EG: Oh. Ok. Sure.
21:38 HS: And he said they had to come up over that well the wires where, you know well the
wires are
21:43 EG: right
21:44 HS: They’re still there.
21:45 EG: Yeah
21:45 HS: He said they’d take them out one time. One of their planes
21:47 EG: Wow
21:48 HS: All they had was those, um, Piper Clubs and uh,
21:49 EG: mmhm
21:50 HS: Maybe a Taylor Craft or two. Little, light weight
21:52 EG: Right
21:52 HS: Little planes
21:53 EG: single engine
21:55 HS: And, uh, they’d come, if there was wind out of the Northwest, which it was a lot,
21:58 EG: mm hm
21:58 HS: they could come straight north out of the runway. Came right out over East Douglas.
22:05 EG: mm hm
22:05 HS: Which was 294 Water Street was our house [laugh]

�22:09 EG: [laugh]
22:09 HS: They’d come over real low, so I’d always be watching them too. Uh, as they’d be
going over and
22:17 EG: yeah
22:17 HS: I had model planes of them, and I flew uh, radio control, not radio control but string
control hand control
22:26 EG: Ok
22:26 HS: I never got quite to radio control. I was building one, then I decided I’ve got save my
money for college, so
22:31 EG: right. Yeah. It’s probably a relatively expensive hobby.
22:35 HS: Well I was in those days yeah.
22:36 EG: Not the same technology
22:39 HS: Well It still is expensive
22:40 EG: yeah
22:40 HS: It hasn’t got
22:41 EG: [laugh]
22:41 HS: That hasn’t gone away. It’s gotten a lot more complicated, though.
22:44 EG: right for sure.
22:45 HS: So anyway, uh, that was fun, Mr, uh, Mr. Crane telling me about that. But other than
that, they didn’t have much trouble at, later. Somewhere along the line, they sold off a corner
of it. The back corner of that airport, or, leased it off
23:05 EG: mhm
23:06 HS: To, um a track, ra- race track. So
23:08 EG: right
23:09 HS: That’s where Douglas Race Track became

�23:10 EG: Right
23:11 HS: I think it was about a quarter mile, maybe three eighths mile dirt
23:14 EG: hm
23:14 HS: track, a small little dirt track.
23:16EG: Yeah.
23:16 HS: The confines of the corner
23:17 EG: Within the airport itself. Yeah.
23:20 HS: And, uh, I ended up, uh, when I was in college, (pause), uh, first year I had a car. I
had an old car that needed some work. And I ended up, my dad, my dad, I got to work for my
dad on the county, he also was county road supervisor
23:37 EG: mm hm
23:37 HS: after he left Douglas part of it, but the county high way split.
23:41 EG: mm hm
23:43 HS: In 1960 about, no it was earlier than that.
23:46 EG: mm hm
23:46 HS: They split up (pause) and they, the county, uh, garage was up behind our house. And
the state highway garage was still down on Blue Star here, which was still 31. But anyway, I
used to fly model airplanes that were the same as what
24:05 EG: [laugh]
24:05 HS: what they were flying, and I, I lost one. We’d go down on 31, and my buddy, this
was uh, Bud Wimple, he had had electric, uh, power, electric control planes
24:17 EG: Hm
24:18 HS: Remote control. And he lost one, one time, and the big trucks that were going down
31. I remember the plane going “mrow” and he lost control of it. It could only go about a
quarter of a mile, you know.

�24:28 EG: mhm
24:28 HS: Blew, the thing was doing loop de loos
24:31 EG: Yeah
24:31 HS: and right between the big trucks going down the highway.
24:35 EG: [laugh] Did, did he get it back, or
24:38 HS: Yeah, I got it back, he was a little crippled, and,
24:40 EG: Ok
24:40 HS: uh, I don’t know if he got that in the war or but he was,
24:45 EG: yeah
24:45 HS: one leg was bad. I was able to run it down for him. It was way out in the dunes over
24:49 EG: oh wow
24:49 HS: towards the lake.
24:50 EG: Ok
24:50 HS: And I lost a plane my own self out that way one time
24:53 EG: yeah.
24:53 HS: Cause I was flying a free flight, and I just put so much gas in, it was the only way you
can turn ‘em off.
24:59 EG: right
25: HS: And uh, it was, it went way the heck out. I was eating dinner one night, a couple months
later. My dad gets a phone call. And he says “No, that’s not me. That’s my son.” Some guy had
found it on his farm way out back there some place.
25:12 EG: Ok
25:13 HS: [laugh]
25:15 EG: [laugh]

�25:15 HS: so we had some fun with model airplanes, but we, with model airplanes we did a
lot, uh, we did speed racing
25:21 EG: mhm
25:22 HS: We did ca-, uh, what’d we call them? Fights, fights, uh, dog fights
25:26 EG: ah
25:27 HS: With model airplanes, all on the Douglas ball diamond there.
25:31 EG: yeah
25:31 HS: And, uh, on a Sunday afternoon, we could get cars parked all the way around that
ball diamond. Just like a softball game.
25:39 EG: Wow. Watching that
25:40 HS: Watching
25:41 EG: Watching the airshow
25:41 HS: those model planes
25:42 EG: air show. Yeah.
25:43 HS: those guys with the planes
25:44 EG: no kidding
25:45 HS: It was very popular in those days.
25:47 EG: Were those planes you built, were they built out of kits or were they things you
made up out of parts yourself?
25:51 HS: Mine was pretty much a kit
25:53 EG: mm hm
25:54 HS: You could get planes in several magazines
25:56 EG: mm hm

�25:56 HS: and make them yourself out of those planes
25:59 EG: Right
25:59 HS: like the ones that I made for racing
26:02 EG: mm hm
26:02 HS: we started the speed, speed kit. You just got a kit in the mail easy.
26:05 EG: mm hm
26:06 HS: Or you got a picture of a kit in a magazine. You’d put your own idea in it and you’d
do it your own way if you had the right tools. You’d cut them out of balsa wood and
26:13 EG: right
26:14 HS: glued them together
26:16 EG: yeah
26:16 HS: Yeah, I had a near record, record speedster at one time.
26:21 EG: [laugh]
26:21 HS: I never got it proved, but Grand Rapids used to have, in those days it was called
AMA, American Modelist Association, Meets in Grand Rapids. It was one of the stops.
26:32 EG: hm. Yeah.
26:32 HS: but I never went up to Grand Rapids and tried to run. You know, that’s where the
big boy’s meet
26:38 EG: Right. [laugh]
26:39 HS: I was just a little boy.
26:40 EG: right
26:42 HS: but I made one, one in one of their classes
26:44 EG: yeah
26:45 HS: I just didn’t have an engine suitable to

�26:47 EG: mm hm
26:47 HS: But I still got speed real close to what they were getting.
26:49 EG: right. Oh, that’s fascinating. Yeah, we hadn’t heard much about that. So that’s a
really interesting story
26:49 HS: There was a hard ware store. Came into Douglas, downtown Douglas. Called Tate’s.
Uh, in those days there was an outfit called Tate and Burr’s. The guys were partners. I don’t
know if they were married to the same wives, I mean different wives. They were friends.
27:11 EG: Yeah [laugh]
27:12 HS: They’d come into town and each time, Burn’s took over Vansickle’s store, you heard
it
27:18 EG: yeah
27:19 HS: Or grocery store. You heard of that?
27:20 EG: Yeah. Yeah.
27:22 HS: Ok. Well the grocery store was had been Burn, had been ,uh, been uh, Vansickle’s,
and uh, they sold out and as he got older. Burns took that over and Tate started a hardware
store in a place, now there’s another gift shop some kind down there.
27:41 EG: mm hm
27:41 HS: And the building’s still there. Right in the main stretch, but on the west end of the
main stretch on the north side of the road. And he wanted to be a good model airplane, uh,
dispensary for
27:53 EG: hm
27:53 HS: for all kids coming over. That was one of the things. He was a good hardware store
owner, in the timeframe that it needed because everybody was building rebuilding old houses
and
28:02 EG: mm hm
28:03 HS: A lot of stuff going on. I was surprised to see it didn’t carry on, but
28:08 EG: mm hm

�28:08 HS: it couldn’t. But anyway, he uh, he commissioned me to make some display models
for him. So I had old display models hanging up in the, uh, store at the time. And I flew one, one
time and, it wasn’t a good flyer, but it looked pretty and that’s what he wanted.
28:23 EG: [laugh]
28:24 HS: So that was always kind of fun
28:26 EG: yeah.
28:27 HS: again, those are all my years probably up to sixteen, maybe seventeen.
28:30 EG: mm hm. Yeah. Moved on to other things. Did you play basketball
28:36 HS: I played basketball at Saugatuck
28:36 EG: at Saugatuck high school?
28:38 HS: That’s one of the main reasons I went over there is because they had the junior
team at one point
28:42 EG: mm
28:43 HS: And the year I went they didn’t have a junior team. But I still, I didn’t know how to
play basketball. I just knew about it.
28:49 EG: ok.
28:50 HS: But, uh, I liked to play it. Worked hard at it. Practiced for a whole year, and then
finally. I couldn’t play the first year. I uh, had a heart condition that wouldn’t allow me to play
according to their doctor assessment.
29:02 EG: Ok. Hm.
29:03 HS: After they, they decided later, you know, I played scrimmages and worked out hard
myself the whole year.
29:09 EG: yeah
29:10 HS: And I was still there.
29:11 EG: yeah

�29:12 HS: So they decided to let me play
29:14 EG: [laugh]
29:14 HS: And, uh, so I was in the last three years, 10, 11, and 12th grade
29:17 EG: yeah
29:18 HS: And, uh, got MVP the final, the senior year.
29:22 EG: [laugh]
29:24 HS: But, uh, that was, that was fun. We didn’t make it to the, we didn’t make it past the
district, so.
29:30 EG: Right. (pause) Say a little bit about games and, uh, you know, kind of what that,
what that was like, what, what home games were like at the high school
29:41 HS: Oh
29:42 EG: and who came out and
29:43 HS: Well, high, high school was not much to be honest. It had a baseball team for years.
Right. I got two letter, you know sweater. I played baseball too. But the big thing for me was
Saugatuck was Douglas Athletic club. Which was this building over here at the time.
30:00 EG: Right.
30:02 HS: And those guys went to the war. Most of them young guys.
30:04 EG: Yeah
30:05 HS: And they came back and started trying to play ball. They had been softball players
before they went, a lot of them.
30:11 EG: mm hmm
30:12 HS: And um, while they were gone, we had a junior AC. We were high school kids
30:19 EG: hm
30:19 HS: at the time. And that was, that was fun. We, uh, we played, uh, we started out at
one time before the war, or just right around the war time, there had been a girls’ team, and a

�boys’ team. They went, women had gotten a team together. Some company had sponsored
them and bought them uniforms
30:38 EG: mm hmm
30:40 HS: and got them started. There were women, women playing softball here.
30:42 EG: Yeah
30:42 HS: And the men’s, men’s team was all right at the range that they’d be going to the
war. So, uh, it didn’t the girls’ team didn’t last long, and most of the men’s team folded up. I got
in. I started off as batboy of the men’s team
30:54 EG: hm
30:55 HS: But I don’t know if that was 1939, or not, but I’ve got a picture some place to show.
But I was batboy at the age of fourteen or there abouts.
31:04 EG: yeah
31:04 HS: Because I was tall they’d stick me in when they were short of players, and I’d play
second base or right field
31:08 EG: [laugh]
31:08 MS: [laugh]
31:08 HS: or wherever I could play.
31:10 EG: Yeah.
31:11 HS: And all of a sudden there were two, three, more of us guyys that were playing with
the men’s team.
31:15 EG: Yeah.
31:15 HS: And pretty soon we were the men’s team.
31:17 EG: Yeah.
31:17 MS: [laugh]
31:18 HS: You know, just quickly because of the war thing

�31:19 EG: Yeah.
31:20 HS: The women’s team folded up, but get started to be the men’s team we ended up
being the junior AC’s. They called us for a while. We had these red uniforms, but they all zipped
on the side (pause)
31:34 EG: Ok
31:34 MS: Sure
31:35 HS: Where this is going?
31:35 EG: [laugh] Yeah. Yeah.
31:35 MS: [laugh]
31:37 HS: So we became the Douglas Squatters
31:40 EG: [laugh] yeah. Hm.
31:40 MS: Oh. [laugh]
31:45 HS: So anyway, that lasted a couple of years. Some guy in Saugatuck came up with that
name. I don’t take credit for it
31:51 MS: [laugh]
31:51 EG: [laugh]
31:51 HS: He called us, and after the red team folded quickly, because the men were gone we
became the AC’s. we were
31:59 EG: yeah
32:00 HS: In high school a couple three of us. We practiced and were working hard and uh,
32:04 EG: Yeah.
32:05 HS: Three or four guys could pitch, and several times we were short of people too. And
we were, not that many guys were all that athletic at school. There were a bunch of guys that
didn’t even play basketball or anything
32:17 EG: yeah

�32:17 HS: with the school. And the same with the town. So we had some helpers. We got
some people in from Fennville, and some people came along. We used to have a rivalry
between the lakeshore.
32:26 EG: mm
32:27 HS: There was a whole gang of guys at the lake shore level. They got a ball game team
together. And we’d get together, and play scrimmages, sort of. Pretty soon it was a real rivalry.
Games went on between the lakeshore and the Douglas ACs
32:41 EG: Wow
32:42 HS: And that’s still coming back because my daughter has a place on the lakeshore
32:46 EG: Yeah
32:47 HS: And she’s met people out there that have kids, second generation that remember
the Douglas AC’s and the Lakeshore team
32:53 EG: Right
32:53 HS: fighting and playing and couple of people remember me, because I’m still around,
but um, yeah that was fun. That was a good, good time.
33:01 EG: Tell us a little bit more. We’ve heard, and this has come up, lots of baseball. Lots of
people playing baseball in summer long growing up here in Douglas. And stories about the
athletic club. Tell us a little bit about, about the athletic club specifically. Like, what was that
place like?
33:17 HS: Well, the athletic club when I, when I was in it, when I was first able to get in it was
as, uh, scouts. We were the boy scouts. And, uh, at that time there was a deal with little cars,
little powered cars. Tether cars, they called them, were being raced, and we could race cars.
Not to track cars, was the next phase of the hobby. They were track cars, and they were on a
little tether. And you’d wind up the motor
33:45 EG: Ok.
33:45 HS: Or start a motor. They were just starting to build little teeny, teeny motors. And I
got into that phase, anything with mechanics that I could afford I was in
33:55 EG: [laugh] You wanted it
33:58 HS: I wanted it. I was a gear head. But um, I got a head, a side track there, towards the
um, towards the high school days. I used to mow lawns. I started off mowing jobs here in

�Douglas. I took a couple of couple of lawn jobs in Saugatuck and it quickly blossomed, and, uh,
the bank president saw me one day, mowing lawn, in his neighborhood. He called my dad who
was, you know, the village clerk at the time or treasurer, and he always had bank business. And
um, asked him if I could, would consider working in the bank. My dad said “Hell, yes.”
34:47 EG: [laugh]
34:47 MS: [laugh]
34:38 HS: So I ended up working in the bank, summers, and part time during the rest of the
year. On statement days and on weekends.
34:45 EG: yeah.
34:46 HS: So that’s how I got doing that, I was doing that
34:47 EG: Who, who, who was your, who was your
34:48 HS: from about 16.
34:50 EG: Who was the owner of the bank?
34:53 HS: Lim Brady. He was the manager of the Saugatuck branch. There was also one in, in
um, Fennville. And, up in Fennville, I think it was Al Hutchets, and he became a senator. I think
he was a senator. I’m not sure how the bank, per se, got started. Somebody, obviously with
money
35:13 EG: Right [laugh]
35:13 MS: [laugh]
35:13 HS: And it was called Fruit Grower’s State Bank.
35:15 EG: Right
35:17 HS: Which this is the fruit grower’s country big time in those days
35:20 EG: mm hm. W—ah, What do think attracted his attention? What do you think is about
you that he called your dad to ask him to hire you, to do that?
35:27 HS: I must have been working hard
35:28 EG: yeah.

�35:28 MS [laugh]
35:29 HS: And cheap
35:31 EG: You had your act together right? Industrious and
35:34 HS: Well, well I did do, I did paper route in Douglas, out of Douglas, uh, I could do that in
the mornings because paper route was in the afternoon. I used to be able to spend time with
the kids out on the lakeshore. I played some golf with the kids on the lakeshore for a while,
when the weather was nice. I worked at the golf course
35:55 EG: mm hm
35:56 HS: uh, he asked us to help clean up places a few times and, most of the time, caddy.
That was the only thing I ever did. I didn’t enjoy that too much, because that was a lot of work
for the money, uh, I don’t know, anyway. There was a lot of little things we could be to make
money, but the bank approach kind of stabilized some income.
36:15 EG: Yeah.
36:16 HS: And you didn’t go to work till 9, which I could still go hunting in the morning in the
fall. Which is what we did at school. We used to go hunting before we could, duck hunting or
something before.
36:27 EG: Yeah.
36:27 HS: [clear throat] so we had, we had a lot of opportunities if you wanted to work. The
kids were, as it is now work, you can work at various entities. There was an entertainment
center down on the water front, and on the weekends part now um (pause) um, the
paddleboat was built down there, Dick Hoffen built the paddle boat original paddle boat for
Saugatuck. He started that business.
36:51 EG: This was the Island Queen?
36:53 HS: Island Queen
36: 54 EG: Uh huh
36:55 HS: Queen One. Yup.
36:55 EG: Yeah. [laugh]
36:57 HS: So yeah. We had a lot of the things. There was kids that worked down there. An
interesting thing came when I got into college, um, my dad could get me on the summer time

�job routine after I quit the bank at 18. He could get me into the jobs in Douglas, Douglas Garage
because the county, the county had a program for student replacement of regulars so the
regulars could go on vacation.
37:24 EG: Yeah.
37: 24 HS: Because they had a hard, hard winter, you know?
37: 25 EG: Right
37: 27 HS: The regulars could go on vacation. They had a limit on how much money you could
make, and, um, uh, I ended up working for my dad for couple summers for the county from as
soon as I could get out in May to uh
37: 40 EG: yeah
37: 41 HS: End of September or early August. Then I had other jobs lined up. I could work the,
work the farm with my dad. I picked fruit a lot of summers, even from a teenaged level.
Cherries and apples and stuff. And, uh, I worked at a gas station out here which was Ray
Owzakaski’s (?) gas station. There used to be a mobile station where the buses are, bus barn is.
There was a big mobile station which crashed a couple of years. It finally went up and folded in
and they condemned the building and took it all down. It was a school bus barn building.
38: 12 EG: yeah.
38:13 HS: That’d been a mobile gas station.
38:15 EG: Ok
38: 15 HS: And I worked there sum, uh, uh, summers. Part time. You know, a lot of weekends
and whenever they needed me. And my dad could call me for the county because we’d have
Rick’s on 31. Big Rick’s had picked up
38:27 EG: Yeah.
38:27 HS: Steel trucks and campers and whatever else, and he’d have to have somebody get
to tow it away
38:33 EG: Right
38:34 HS: To get the road cleaned up again.
38:36 EG: What, what kind of work, say a little bit more about the work you did at the road
commission working with your dad.

�38:45 HS: Well with a truck the first year I came home, we’d had the tornado that came
through and wiped out the Oval. And it went up through the dunes. It took out the lighthouse
38:58 EG: Right
38:58 HS: The original light house, and went over the dunes and out into Laketown Township.
And it wiped out a family (pause) I’d have to think about that a little bit. It wiped out a family’s
home out there and a baby was involved. And the baby they were looking for the baby and we,
there was a lot of trouble there, you know. For a while, I was still in school. It was in early May.
As soon as I got out of school I came home and the first thing that we did was got on tree crew,
tree crew to clean up tree stuff and to help fix up those roads that way. So I’m driving trucks.
39:34 EG: Yeah
39:35 HS: Stuff I’ve never done before. Chainsaws
39:36 EG: yeah.
39:37 HS: Yeah. Two hand chainsaws and
39:39 EG: Right
39:39 HS: Stuff I never did before. Go do it anyway. So that was part of it. Then haul dirt, haul
brush, haul loads. We used to use a lot of gravel from gravel pits in Allegan, to bring them out
and fill gravel roads and fill potholes and fix things. One year, the second year, the bank and
caved out on the lakeshore. Uh, it’s been repaired since. You know where the bank cave in is
now? Where the road runs on the lakeshore?
40:06 EG: yeah.
40:06 HS: Do you know that?
40:08 EG: mmhmm
40:08 HS: Well before you get there, there was another spot that it caved in. Big time.
40:12 EG: Ok
40:13 HS: If you, um, just before 130, just north of 130th. Where that high spot is? That whole
spot had caved away right to the front yard of those houses. And at that time, somebody got
together and the ideas together to stabilize the bank. And we dumped everything we could
dump down there. Rebuild that. So yeah, I did a lot of truck driving, that’s probably be a big
thing.

�40:38 EG: Right.
40:38 HS: I did that at the beach, and I did a whole lot of other things.
40:41 EG: Right yeah.
40:41 HS: Road side, road side pickup. That’s interesting. Road side pickup included the parks
that ran on the side of the high way, the junk that now us groups do.
40:52 EG: yeah.
40:52 HS: Well anyway, we’d go along either shotgun or drive. We’d take turns. One guy sit on
the bumper with a pitchfork. Really
41:04 EG: Right
41:04 HS: And you’d have the tarp and you’d hook it into the back of the truck.
41:07 EG: Right
41:07 HS: That was one of the things. Then you’d empty the barrels when you’d get to one of
the road side parks. In the town here there’s one, and you know, township park and we’d hit
the park system along the lakeshore. And we’d patch roads. That was another big job was
patching, walk behind the truck and patch the little hole. So lot of, lot of stuff, but yeah, that
was very interesting. Um, I ended up when I got back and I got to work at the club. Now this
other side, but I worked at the club we had a road side pickup
41:39 EG: At the Rod and gun club? Yeah.
41:42 HS: We ended up when I was working when I joined the club, one on of the things they
did was road side pickup. So I said “Oh I can help out because that’s my area. That’s the area I
live in.” And, uh, so pretty soon the guy retired that was doing it, and I ended up doing it. So
I’ve been coordinating that effort for the club for years now. But, it’s been twelve years.
42:03 EG: Old experiences come in handy
42:05 HS: Old, experiences picking up garbage
42:08 EG: Aside from working at the road commission when you were back in the summers
from college, what where some of the others things that you got up to?
42:15 HS: I worked at the gas station.

�42:18 EG: Yeah
42:19 HS: Yep, put me out there because Ray Orzawoski was a racer, and the Douglas race
track he raced at. There were several local guys that thought they could race and there was a
$25 night for it they could make it to the showing
42:34 EG: Say that name of the garage owner again
42:37 HS: Ray Orzawoski was co owner
42:40 EG: ok
42:40 HS: with Ross Jennings
42:41 EG: Or- or
42:42 HS: It was Jennings garage it was
42:42 EG: Ok. Gotcha. All right.
42:45 HS: And Ray was the mechanic, engine mechanic
42:47 EG: Got it.
42:47 HS: And he’d take engines out of cars he’d wreck one week and put them in another one
and be ready to go the next week.
42:52 EG: Right
42:52 HS: And he was c, called the flying Polack because he had a pension for flying off the top
end with no guard rails on the track. With no safety. And he’d fly off the top end and wind up in
the woods out there. And, of course, that wrecked his car, so he had to find another one. So 34,
34 Ford Coups were piled up behind the place there.
43:15 EG: [laugh] that was the car of choice
43:15 MS: [laugh]
43:16 HS: yeah.
43:16 EG: Was that for him, or for most people? Was that common car?
43:19 HS: Well it was very

�43:21 EG: common?
43:22 HS: Very common race car in those days
43:23 EG: Yeah
43:24 HS: But, um, but the situation was, Boss Jennings, the senior, and I can’t remember
Floyd, Floyd Jennings had uh, had uh, retired. He had a hip problem, and he had retired to
Arizona and stuff. So he, um, [clear throat] he gave it to his brother and Ray bought fifty/fifty of
that station. His brother was, boss was uh, what was his name? I can’t remember his name, but
they called him boss. And he was P. O.’d because Ray spent all his time working on the cars.
And in those days they still serviced cars.
43:59 EG: Right
44:00 HS: So you went and pumped gas and cleaned the windshield and checked the oil and all
that stuff. So I did that changed oils and made wrecker runs and stuff like that, just basically.
But I got called away by my dad several times because a big wreck house trailer got smashed up
here by Holland and pieces all over the road, the road blocked and that kind of thing.
44:22 EG: yeah
44:23 HS: Big steel truck in the south somehow got jack knifed and scattered steel, steel I
remember that. I still got pieces of that around in the house. Little pieces, squares of steel.
44:37 EG: yeah.
44:37 HS: And they were laying all over place out there. And you had to, to pick the up, you
couldn’t use gloves. You had to pick them up with your bare hands and pull them out of the
road.
44:45 EG: wow
44:46 HS: And uh, anyway nice little welding
44:49 EG: Right. Good project pieces, right?
44:50 HS: good project pieces, right.
44:51 EG: [laugh]
44:54 HS: so anyway, that was, you know, I got called in to help that out so I could get paid on
overtime, my dad could get the overtime, I mean, I could get the overtime.

�45:01 EG: Yeah.
45:01 HS: And I gave him all the money so that whatever, uh, I needed for,
45:06 EG: For college
45:08 HS: college was
45:08 EG: yeah.
45:09 HS: was there
45:10 EG: All taken care of, yeah. Did you ever race any cars? Did you go to races?
45:13 HS: Well yeah, but that was a lot later. That was after I got out of college.
45:16 EG: ok
45:17 HS: That wasn’t here. That was after I got with Ford
45:19 EG: Ok. Gotcha. Uh, more, more about summer. I heard somewhere along the way you
had worked at the Dock.
45:26 HS: yeah, I worked at the Dock, that was, that was one of those had three jobs going
counting, counting the summer jobs. I ended up with the county one time, and I worked the gas
station on certain weekends at night. That was only 8-5 or so.
45:43 EG: Ok
45:43 HS: In evenings I could for the Dock. And I had a good family member, some family
member I would say, secondary family member
45:52 EG: yeah.
45:53 HS: Uh, in the bar. And I was only 18 or 19, I’m not sure which. I could do setups and
stock the bar and all that sort of thing, had me checking age. And that was, that was ok, except,
you know, here I kind of looked pretty young at the time. And you meet some guys that were
half drunk trying to get into the Dock.
46:13 EG: mmhm
46:13 MS: yeah.

�46:16 HS: And I had some, tough arguments a couple, three times. And the boss would send
me, the boss was a chicken.
46:24 EG: [laugh] put you in the line of fire so
46:26 HS: put me in the line of fire. I’m out there doing that.
46:29 EG: Yeah. What, just describe a little bit what the Dock was like uh,
46:34 HS: It was a very good restaurant. Good steaks. Good prime ribs and stuff. And it was at
the dock level where the boats where you’d walk and the windows, well the windows weren’t
all open but there was a couple of them. The boats could come in, but basically that was under
control, but the interesting part was that, some of the boats, well, those were party days. Some
of the boats would hire the band. And there was a boat that I always wanted to get on. And the
job business kind of got me out of right there. There, do you know what a PT boat is?
47:09 EG: mmhm. Yeah. From world war two
47:10 HS: From World War Two
47:11 EG: The Mosquito Boats
47:12 HS: There was a World War Two PT boat coming in from Wisconsin. The owner was
supposedly Slits Brewry (?). And he was coming in, had a jeep on back, on the back, and he had
a plane on the back with, with a davit, so he could drop the jeep on the dock and the jeep
would come up the dock to buy groceries, there were a lot of little grocery stores in those days
47:34 EG: Yeah.
47:34 HS: And a beautiful blonde with a monkey, a real monkey on the windshield of his jeep,
a purple jeep
47:43 EG: [laugh]
47: 43 MS: [laugh]
47:44 HS: Or pink. Not sure purple
47:46 EG: Yeah
47:49 HS: And this blonde was a knock out. And, uh, she was a good passenger. And
everybody knew about her.
47:50 EG: Toured around in this jeep.

�47:57 HS: Too bad there weren’t more cameras in town in those days. Nobody had any but the
little brownie box cameras, you know?
48:02 EG: Yeah, I’ve never seen a photo of this before. It sounds pretty entertaining.
48:05 HS: Very entertaining. She’d come up and, you know, wave at people
48:09 EG: They’d come up with some frequency then? From across the lake?
48:12 HS: They were, they’d come once, and I’m not sure about years even. But one year they
came a couple of times. They’d stay for a period of time. I’m not sure if they were dock limited
or if they were just limited, because one time I saw them, I saw him put the, uh, (?) in water,
you know like a piper cub
48:30 EG: Mmhm. Yeah
48:31 HS: And it, it had a little bit more power. It had the big the big floats on it.
48:35 EG: Yeah.
48:36 HS: He’d put that in the water with the davit, he’d hook it on up to the
48:38 EG: mmhm. Yeah.
48:39 HS: Put it in the water. And he’d go putzing up the river, pick it up, uh, way up above the
bridge and try to get up in the air and take off to stay away from the town because he took
forever to get in the air.
48:52 EG: Yeah. That’s a lot of drag.
48:54 HS: yeah. Do you remember, do you remember the Eddy Deveter(?) story with CV? Do
you remember that story?
49:00 EG: I’m not sure of that one.
49:03 HS: Well, at that time, you showed the other night, that, uh, hotel on the side of the
lake?
49:11 EG: yeah.
49:15 HS: With the story with the party? What was it? Blue Moon?
49:20 EG: The Blue Tempo?

�49:20 MS: Blue Tempo
49:21 HS: Blue Tempo?
49:21 EG: Yeah. The Blue Tempo Bar?
49:22 HS: The Blue Tempo was originally owned by Eddy Deveter (?) It was the Ed, was the Ed
Mar Hotel
49:28 EG: Ok. Right. Ok.
49:29 HS: That was the Ed mar Hotel (?)
49:30 EG: Right.
49:30 HS: Well Eddy, Deveter (?) his name was,
49:33 EG: yeah.
49:33 HS: Ended up building the place over on the other side, after they sold that. But, over on
the other side meaning Park Street. Off of Park Street. But it burned immediately. Anyway, um,
the um, I had a CB, they’re a pusher, plane
49:52 EG: Ok. Yeah.
49:53 HS: You can look that up
49:54 EG: I’ve seen that.
49:55 HS: look that up.
49:55 EG: No, I know what you’re talking about.
49:56 HS: Ok.
49:57 EG: Exactly. Yeah.
49:58 HS: It was a pusher.
49:59 EG: Yeah.

�49:59 HS: And it flown like a rock. Cause it took forever to get that thing going. And I used to
fish, periodically, out there on the, when I had time. This was not, uh, concurrent, you know,
let’s say with working
50:11 EG: Right
50:12 HS: Ok
50:13 EG: Yeah, yeah [throat clear]
50:16 HS: In probably the earlier years he was there, well it had been it the earlier forties he
came back from the war. He was a war vet. And he’d fly up the river and take off, and then he’d
come down and he’d come roaring through under the bridge, which was a short wind rock. And
to get the thing into the air when we’d have north west winds over bald head and in that area.
He had to rip his tail off for it. He had such a horrible roar all through the valley here getting
that thing up in the air. He flew that a lot, and Jack’s got some good pictures some good
memories of that. Cause he was around and saw some of that. I don’t remember all of the years
now.
50:57 EG: Ok
50:57 HS: He was around for two or three years, and he sold that hotel, and I never did know
about that. I knew the guy that owned it. Blue Tempo was owned by Toad Davis
51:08 EG: yeah.
51:09 HS: [clear throat]
51:11 EG: Yeah. Have a drink of water there. Have a drink
51:13 HS: yeah. Uh. Toad Davis ended up living right behind me. He had a
51:19 EG: Ok
51:20 HS: His mother built a house, his mother, his mother built her house up on Water Street
51:23 EG: Ok.
51:24 sounds of water pouring
51:30 EG: Toad’s come up in a few interviews
51:32 MS: Yeah
51:33 EG: Uh, kind of talk about the jazz scene here in Saugatuck

�51:38 HS: Well there was uh,
51:39 EG: Acts he had in there
51:40 HS: Yeah. There were a lot of bi- bi- genders around here in those days. A lot of them.
51:47 EG: Yeah
51:47 HS: And it was not coming out like it was recently you know, it wasn’t so obvious.
51:54 EG: hmm
51:55 HS: Era that we’re in now. There is, you know
51:57 EG: more openness
51:57 MS: Yeah
51:58 EG: more openness about
52:00 HS: openness
52:00 EG: gay people
52:01 HS: yeah. So that was, there were, um, and there was a lot of entertainment needed,
you know, they were willing to do it. Toad, Toad Davis was, like I say, nicest guy. He wanted, I
knew him, but he was older than I was. He was a war vet too that came back, Korean War,
probably talking most the
52:21 EG: Ok.
52:22 HS: guys that I knew of
52:24 EG: yea
52:24 HS: They were older than I, but, you know, not that far.
52:28 EG: Similar age grouping
52:29 HS: You know back when we were in high school, there were guys that, you know, my,
my um, I called him my mentor for basketball. I just copied his style and ended up with his shirt
number. He was a tall, lanky guy. He and I are still in touch with the Facebook. Um, long, lanky

�guy. Ran kind of awkwardly like I think I do (laugh), and you know, same kind of style baskets
and, I had a secret hook that I learned from watching him.
53:05 EG: uh huh. Yeah.
53:06 HS: And anyway, it was, it was fun to, uh, to see some of those guys came back and
talked to us while we were still in school and gave clues, you know. They’d been in and out.
53:15 EG: yeah
53:16 HS: of the army. They’d got their three years in and were out.
53:18 EG: Yeah.
53:20 HS: So it was fun to hear those stories. (?) a couple of those guys.
53:23 EG: Yeah. Yeah. So. Um, yeah. Kind of thinking back to the dock. You mentioned, that’s a
great story about the PT boat and
53:34 HS: Well the PT boat ended up coming and going, and one night, see this was all toward
the end of summer on the day was a big shoot out. Fourth of July was one.
53:47 EG: mmhmm
53:47 HS: Labor Day was too
53: 49 EG: yeah.
53:49 HS: Uh, those boats would get together and have big parties and everything going and
um, they were going to have the band, after we closed, go on the boat out
54:02 EG: mmhm. Yeah. Out, out into the, out into Kalamazoo Lake?
54:05 HS: out in the river
54:05 EG: out in the river? Out to Lake Michigan?
54:06 HS: Out to Lake Michigan
54:08 EG: yeah
54:09 HS: And this was starting at like two, three o’clock in the morning because my job ended
up right about then after clean up. And then I had to go to work at, I think it was seven or eight
in the morning. I don’t remember now. At the gas station

�54:22 EG: yeah.
54:23 HS: Uh, and I was whipped after two, three weeks of this kind of schedule
54:27 EG: yeah.
54:27 HS: And, uh, so I didn’t go
54:29 EG: did, didn’t go out on the boat.
54:30 HS: Didn’t go out in that boat.
54:33 EG: [laugh] hard, hard to hold responsibility you had there. Sounds like.
54:37 HS: Well it was a tough choice. That was one of my toughest choices in those days.
54:42 EG: [laugh] prob, probably not easy to tell your dad you’re not going to go to work the
next day or
54:48 HS: Well it wasn’t it wasn’t Sunday night. It was a Saturday night.
54:52 EG: yeah. Ok.
54:53 HS: So my weekends were I worked on the gas station.
54:54 EG: Ok
54:55 HS: Saturday and Sunday
54:56 EG: yeah.
54:56 HS: the daylight hours
54:58 EG: yeah. Right. What, uh, what were I mean, what were some of the things you saw, or
in what were parties like or what
55:07 HS: Well, one of the things that was in the dock that, that was pretty common was a lot
of drunkeness, and a lot of semisexual activity.
55:15 EG: Ok.
55:16 MS: [laugh]

�55:18 HS: I mean they weren’t, uh, weren’t shy. People weren’t shy in those days.
55:20 EG: Right.
55:21 HS: If some guy was putting the make on this girl and had her pretty well ready for, uh,
operation, little, uh,
55:28 EG: Ok
55:29 HS: And the boss saw me and “Show some— got get him”
55:35 slapping noises against hard surface (table?)
55:36 HS: And I got over there and take him apart
55:39 MS: [laugh]
55:39 EG: yeah. Tough job as 18, 19 year old, right? You know, “Excuse me, sir”
55:45 HS: yeah.
55:46 EG: Did you throw them out or did you just tell them act more appropriate or?
55:49 HS: I, I, I said that’s not appropriate or something to that effect. And I got him to back
off and take her out of there.
55:59 EG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of, kind of wild times. What were, uh, at the, oh, at the
Docks specifically? What did people drink in those days?
56:09 HS: Seven and Seven was big. Switz beer was big and so was Stroll’s
56:16 EG: These were on draft or bottles?
56:18 HS: bottles. We didn’t do draft.
56:19 EG: yeah.
56:21 HS: But I, I could mix the seven and sevens. Gin buck was good. Do you know what a gin
buck is? Gin
56:25 EG: I don’t
56: 26 HS: Gin and tonic

�56:27 EG: Ok. All right.
56:27 MS: [laugh]
56:28 HS: Gin buck, uh, were common. Yeah. I could do the mix ups
56:32 EG: yeah.
56:34 HS: But not put the liquor in.
56:34 MS: Ah
56:35 EG: Got cha. Got cha.
56:36 HS: And serve the people. So whenever I was not stocking and getting empty beer
bottles, I was putting cold ones in.
56:42 EG: Right
56:44 HS: Uh, doing everything.
56:45 EG: Yeah. Where were folks from that were, that were in there summer time?
56:48 HS: There were a lot of people from Illinois. Uh, it was rare to find people from Chic,
from the east side of the state. But one of the girls I met was from Dearborn.
57:00 EG: Ok. Yeah.
57:02 HS: But not very many. Not very many. A lot of them out of Allegan, Kalamazoo, Grand
Rapids, and Chicago, obviously, Chicago, oh and Indiana. That was big. And those motorcycles
they talked about [throat clear]. All I remember is my wife’s from Detroit, but she came over
here with me a lot in our early years, and she remembers seeing a lot of motorcycles in the
sixties and seventies too. We got married in fifty-eight or so, fifty-nine (pause). But I was
thinking. We used to run into, when I was motorcycle riding, we used to run into these Bless
the Motorcycle rallies. These guys get together by the hundreds, these, clubs. They’d go to
party some places. And it just depended on where they decided to party. You know, it’s like,
they’d do a preview, and I’d run into them a couple of times up north. More, more than,
probably three times at least up north. I know they used to come to Saugatuck once in a while.
58:02 EG: yeah
58:02 HS: you could get a big, big gang
58:03 EG: right

�58:04 HS: Otherwise they were all impromptu. Uh, used to work came over on his own, so you
know, the guys that rode the motorcycles were here by the fifties, sixties was the magnet.
58:17 EG: Hm, that was, yeah, we heard that from a few people that that was the big
motorcycle place there or destination.
58:24 HS: yeah.
58: 25 EG: yeah. For sure. Were there other places like, sounds like once you were older that
you went out to aside from working at the dock that you go to and see friends or have drinks
and listen to music?
58:35 HS: Well, as soon as, um, I dated a couple of couple of different gals, and there was a
dancehall down by Paw Paw.
58:45 EG: Ok.
58:47 HS: That was a nice thing. There was another one up at um, Spring Lake. Dancehalls.
These were World Wars two ex- bands and/ or new/ old bands. Kind of rejuvenating.
59:00 EG: yeah.
59:01 HS: And those dance halls were, were fun to go to. At least I didn’t dance much but
59:05 EG: Yeah. That was through (?) music
59:09 HS: I, I liked the music yeah. I was very much in favor of the music. Still am.
59:14 EG: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Uh, what about some of the musical acts you had? You
mentioned the band going out on the boat at two o’clock in the morning at the dock. What
were some of the acts you had there at the dock?
59:25 HS: uh
59:25 EG: Or kinds of music you had? What were they playing?
59:29 HS: I couldn’t tell you. You know? It, it, it was more or less popular. And a lot of it was
World War Two based.
59:35 EG: Ok
59:36 HS: And these bands at least, at least one of the people I know, um, was a piano player
and he stayed there full time. Lived, lived here in Saugatuck afterwards

�59:48 EG: Ok
59:48 HS: He, he bought a place, the other place was
59:50 EG: Do you remember his name or act was?
59:52 HS: His name was Bill Johnson
59:54 EG: Ok.
59:54 MS: Ok.
59:55 HS: His name was Johnson, yeah. He’s long gone, but he bought a place out in the
woods by us, and I knew him. We got permission to go, to go and hunt out on his property
because he had nice property out there. In fact I got a deer out on his property
1:00:07 EG: Wow. [laugh]
1:00:08 HS: Oh yeah. That um, that was kind of nice and then, I don’t know if you hear this but
there was a group of band players [clear throat] who used to stop on their way back to Chicago,
or, specifically, came to play at the What Not Inn
1:00:27 EG: Ok.
1:00:28 HS: And one of the band players was an orchestra pit band player. These aren’t top
names all the time.
1:00:34 EG: Sure.
1:00:35 HS: But she always would play with her back to the orchestra-to the, the audience.
1:00:40 EG: didn’t want that, wasn’t used to all that action.
1:00:45 HS: She had her friends, partners, they were, uh L, uh, anyways she was down here for
quite a few years.
1:00:52 EG: Ok. And what years was this?
1:00:54 HS: hmm?
1:00:56 EG: What years would that have been roughly? (pause)
1:01:02 HS: Would have been into the sixties.

�1:01:03 EG: Ok.
1:01:04 HS: Could have been sixties. My, my, a lot of my experience here left me in sixty-five
‘cause we went out of the country for a few years.
1:01:12 EG: yeah.
1:01:12 HS: That’s a big hole in my history around this town.
1:01:16 EG: Gotcha. So I have to clarify just some stuff. So you graduated here in 53 and went
to Indiana and went off to school or back, back and forth in the summers?
1:01:25 HS: Yep
1:01:25 EG: Stories with that, uh, graduated with, moved back to this area, or, what, what
happened?
1:01:32HS: No, I went to work for Ford Motor Company in Dearborn.
1:01:36 EG: Oh, o.
1:01:37 HS: Dearborn Engineering.
1:01:39 EG: Ok. At the headquarters there, or?
1:01:40 HS: Well it was the engineering center
1:01:42 EG: Ok. Yeah.
1:01:44 HS: I wasn’t at headquarters till later years.
1:01:47 EG: Ok. Gotcha. And then uh, so you were travelling coming back here to spend time
with family and spend time here.
1:01:53 HS: yeah, yeah. We had a lot of family around here and they were, they were in their
senior years of course.
1:02:00 EG: Ok.
1:02:00 HS: We were losing them.
1:02:02 EG: how, how often did you make the trip from Dearborn to here, like to the west side
of the state?

�1:02:07 HS: I’d do that every two weeks if I could
1:02:10 EG: Yeah.
1:02:10 HS: We had other friends to visit. My wife’s family was a large family, so we had a lot of
things to do over there.
1:02:18 EG: Yeah. And they were from Dearborn? That area? Detroit area?
1:02:21 HS: Uh, yeah, Lincoln Park or wester Dearborn area. And they were a close knit family.
Big family. So we had, we had a lot of places to go and do things. When we went out of the
country for a while, that was, we were gone four years. Um, the kids were getting to the point
to see Grandpa and Grandma, and I said I think it’s time to get back home, so. I cut my overseas
potential overseas stay and down
1:02:50 EG: Where, where were you now?
1:02:52 HS: I was in Venezuela. But I was being asked to go to Ecuador, and uh,
1:02:57 EG: yeah
1:02:58 HS: Chile
1:02:59 EG: All right.
1:02:59 HS: And I think in Argentina. In that time it was, it was sort of stable but it was starting
to get into that big hiccup with, with the economy.
1:03:09 EG: mmhm. Yeah. For sure. So you’d come over here ever couple, once or twice a
month you’d make the drive over. And then, uh, did you spend extended time here during the
summer or, you know? Vacations?
1:03:21 HS: No. no. When I was travelling I could bring my wife and kids over, and they’d stay
with my folks. And then they could do that, and I could fly out of Grand Rapids and go to
Arizona or wherever I had to go. California. But, uh, I was in testing. So that meant working with
the vehicles, you know, wherever I needed to be used.
1:03:42 EG: Right.
1:03:43 HS: How I needed to be used.
1:03:44 EG: Right. Yeah. Very interesting. Tell us a little bit about your wife and your children.

�1:03:51 HS: Well my wife was, I met her at Ford. She was a secretary in the Berkley division
which I hired into initially. And uh, we all, had a big party, a lot of fun went on for years there.
Skiing, actually. And uh, snow skiing that is. And, uh, she had been coming over to here and
going to Florida and doing some of the things that some of my friends had, so. It was really
natural. And we had, um, three girls. And they all grew up coming over here regularly. They
used to call the original drug store here in Douglas the candy store. It was Jack and Eva Tyler,
took over from Norton when Norton’s, did you ever hear Norton name before?
1:04:41 EG: Heard that name
1:04:43 HS: Norton had the, the drug store. Big two story, on the corner. Right down the block
here. Just, just right down the block. Just, the post office is past here. And then the next street
is the, I don’t even know what that store is, that building on the left is now, but that building
was the new drug store. The old drug store was the next two story. And
1:05:14 MS: Ok.
1:05:14 HS: And, and Mr. Norton’s drug store used to have a soda bar and everything. But there
was something in half of it that I don’t remember what it was. But when he died, the store, they
sold it. And I think the Catholic Church bought it and put it into a Catholic School. I think that’s
the order of things. And Jack and Eva Tyler bought the drug store part, rights, and they built the
building next door. And that became the candy store. All it was, was candy and papers, and
that’s where I worked out of, the drug, bring those papers and stuff.
1:05:56 EG: Ok
1:05:56 MS: Oh.
1:05:57 HS: But I remember, when I was in my downtown years, uh, sitting up at the counter
and getting a chocolate sundae at the Norton’s drug store there.
1:06:07 EG: Yeah.
1:06:08 HS: Like a (?) drug. And finally the Saugatuck drugstore duplicated that system years
later when they built the, rebuilt the back of the store. They put a counter in there. You ever, I
don’t know if they still do that or not.
1:06:26 EG: I don’t know. I haven’t been there to see it yet.
1:06:27 HS: They put, they put an old fashioned drug store counter in there.
1:06:31 MS: That’s awesome
1:06:32 EG: yeah.

�1:06:32 HS: So it isn’t, you know. Ice cream sundaes and ice cream (?) stuff. So anyway we, the
kids know that, and we took them, we used to go to Gosemer Lake swimming because that was
semi, well. It was not public. It was private. And they started charging ten cents for a person to
go in there. And you could go swimming there, and it was calm, and the water was warm
1:07:01EG: Mmhm. Yeah. Yeah. That seems like it was quite the destination those years.
Gosemer Lake resort. Yeah.
1:07:10 HS: Mhm. It was very popular.
1:07:11 EG: What, uh, what was your wife’s name? What was her
1:07:14 HS: Paula
1:07:14 EG: Paula. And her maiden name?
1:07:16 HS: Martin
1:07:17 EG: Martin.
1:07:18 HS: Mmhm
1:07:19 EG: And then your daughters, you said you had two daughters
1:07:20 HS: Three
1:07:20 EG: Three. Three daughters. And what are there names?
1:07:23 HS: Sandra, Julie, and Christine.
1:07:28 EG: Are they, are they on the east side of the state still, or did they settle in other
places?
1:07:30 HS: Well they, uh, Sandra, the oldest, she lives in the Detroit area now. She’s in
northern Detroit.
1:07:35 EG: Ok.
1:07:36 HS: Uh by Wayne county, Wayne, uh, Wayne uh, State University.
1:07:41 EG: Oh, ok.
1:07:42 HS: And she’s had a lot of career choices and moved around quite a bit.

�1:07:48 EG: Right.
1:07:49 HS: She’s still not married. And the middle one, Julie, she has a place out here in
Douglas, on the Douglas lakeshore.
1:07:56 EG: Oh.
1:07:57 HS: And she brings all, the whole family together when she’s here. And then Christina’s
in Florida, Gainesville. And she has a place, uh, in Saint Augustine, so when we go to Florida we,
uh, have them making a big loop down there with our friends and family. Sandy was in Saint
Aug, Saint Augustine also.
1:08:17 EG: yeah
1:08:17 HS: And then she was in, uh, Fort Lauderdale for quite a while too.
1:08:22 EG: mmhm.
1:08:22 HS: And that was a nice, nice area to go visit in the winter time. We’ve been managing
to make a tour for years and, we’ve kind of slowed things down the way things are going now.
1:08:32 EG: right. Yeah. For sure
1:08:34 HS: Grandkids and college, that changed our timetable entirely. Couldn’t just go on
Spring Break anymore. There was no such thing as a spring break. They’re all on spring break all
the time it seems like.
1:08:46 EG: right. Different schedules I know where you’re at. For sure.
1:08:50 HS: you, you agree
1:08:51 MS: Oh yeah
1:08:51 EG: mmhm
1:08:53 HS: It’s weird, trying to, trying to Spring Break time.
1:08:57 MS: No, every place does it at a different time so. Yeah. Few different schools here, and
it feels like it’s constantly spring break
1:09:03 HS: yeah.
1:09:04 MS: For different schools. [laugh]

�1:09:06 HS: So that um, pretty much covers uh, those years. Ford years are a whole thing that I
don’t intend to get into.
1:09:15 EG: Maybe for, maybe for another interview we could sit down and talk about that. Uh,
thinking about summers. Thinking about change over time. We touched on it a little bit. You
mentioned, um, you mentioned, um, the sort of LGBT population and gay folks
1:09:35 HS: more forward
1:09:35 EG: in the community and, more, more out in the open. Do you remember much, you
talked about, uh, Toad Davis’ place the Blue Tempo and that, what was, what was kind of the
community reactions to that, or were there really none?
1:09:49 HS: Just none, yeah really that I’m aware of, let’s put it that way.
1:09:53 EG: yeah.
1:09:54 HS: There may have been a few people offended but, you know, we saw a lot of them,
uh in our younger days. Palling around here. Um, I never saw anything that was obsessively,
um, outward let’s say. The only thing you might want to find out about, have you ever seen any
pictures of the conglomeration of little tents down by the Oval?
1:10:20 EG: I’ve not.
1:10:23 MS: No
1:10:23 EG: I’m not sure what you’re, not sure what you mean there.
1:10:25 HS: Gosh I wish I had a picture. North of the Oval, while it was still Dennyson property
1:10:31 EG: Right
1:10:33 HS: They had to block off the whole area. They had a gate because those guys would
take off and put their little tents up
1:10:39 EG: Is this, like a nude bathing area?
1:10:41 HS: Nude bathing area
1:10:42 EG: yeah
1:10:43 HS: big section all the way down to what now is part of Saugatuck. That whole area.

�1:10:48 EG: yeah
1:10:49 HS: And the dunes were covered with them.
1:10:50 EG: Ok
1:10:50 HS: With these little tents
1:10:52EG: Yeah
1:10:54 HS: Little two man tents
1:10:55 EG: Right
1:10:56 HS: And they were in the water without suits. Hugging and kissing and the whole works.
Quite a bunch of them.
1:11:03 EG: Right
1:11:03 HS: And it was a little bit upsetting to me because we were boaters at that time.
1:11:07 EG: yeah
1:11:08 HS: And, uh, but they stayed together. They were to themselves. They didn’t seem to,
that I know of
1:11:15 EG: yeah
1:11:15 HS: Cause any issues. But um, we, uh, had our kids out there. You know, three girls are
kind of interested in what was going on in those days. So the binoculars
1:11:27 EG: Right [laugh] One more challenge from the water with kids is, hard to answer
questions
1:11:34 HS: Yeah, I don’t know how we explained it. You know. Kids, kids got to expect it. Cause
we went once and then we, you know, every weekend we could we’d get out on the lake and
go for a ride
1:11:46 EG: And this would have been in the early 1960’s? Late 1950’s?
1:11:48 HS: Well
1:11:48 EG: What kind of time period

�1:11:49 HS: Well Sandy was born in 59, it would have been late 60’s
1:11:54 EG: yeah
1:11:54 HS: Oh not, excuse me, it couldn’t we were out of town. Out of the country. Late
(pause), early seventies probably would have been the latest we would have seen that. Cause
when we came back from Venezuela, uh, I got a boat. We had a house trailer before then. I sold
it, and we got a boat, and, um we took some travel things, and we got in the boat about 70. So
early 70’s. And um, that’s when we were out there. And the kids were bigger then. A lot bigger.
1:12:29 EG: Yeah.
1:12:29 HS: you know, teenagers
1:12:30 EG: right
1:12:30 HS: Getting to be, the oldest one was
1:12:34 EG: yeah
1:12:34HS: You know and just about the second was. So we had that boat for a little while and
then soon they were in college. And I couldn’t afford boats and cars and colleges and
1:12:41 EG: Sure
1:12:31 MS: Yeah. That makes sense
1:12:46 EG: That, that happens. Do you remember, was there talk about that in town, the, the
nude
1:12:51 HS: you know, I can’t say that we were in town
1:12:54EG: yeah
1:12:54 HS: because we were out of town in the 60’s.
1:12:56 EG: Right
1:12:57 HS: And then in the 70’s and 80’s we were family. The only time we came over was to
stay at my folks place and
1:13:02 EG: Right
1:13:03 HS: And they were still alive then.

�1:13:05 EG: yeah.
1:13:05 HS: My dad died in 72, so we were through the 70’s pretty much at that house up on
the hill, and we ended up selling it in the 80’s.
1:13:16 EG: yeah. Very interesting. Wealth of, wealth of information. Did you have any
questions that you wanted to ask? Was there anything?
1:13:24 MS: Um
1:13:25 EG: We talked about a lot of different things here today
1:13:28 MS: Yeah. Yeah.
1:13:30 HS: Well I, um, got a little out of line with some of them, but thinking
1:13:34 EG: Not at all
1:13:34 HS: the sequence of events
1:13:35 EG: Not at all.
1:13:37HS: But, um, you know we used to have a lot of interesting, interesting things going on
in Douglas. We used to have dancing. That was fun.
1:13:43 MS: Oh really?
1:13:44 HS: I remember bringing my first girlfriend over to show to my folks, go square dancing.
1:13:53 EG: Where was that? Where did that happen?
1:13:54 HS: On the tennis courts down there.
1:13:55 EG: Ok. Just right on the, right out in town
1:13:57 HS: Yeah, I don’t even think they’ve got tennis now anymore. Or maybe they do
1:13:58 MS: Don’t think so?
1:14:01 HS: I think they tore that one out too
1:14:02 MS: yeah.

�1:14:02 EG: I think so
1:14:04 HS: Geez!
1:14:05 EG: yeah. Changes. Yeah.
1:14:06 MS: Yeah.
1:14:07 HS: they really, I don’t approve of what they did to the park to be honest with you. It’s
playground now. I don’t know if that’s what it was meant to be or not, but that’s what they
wanted (pause) my kids liked tennis! They all got into tennis. They learned at Douglas Park out
if you, have you ever been out to Douglas Park?
1:14:28 MS: mm, I think I’ve gone by it, but I haven’t, like driven past it.
1:14:32 HS: Now it’s going to, now it’s got, what do you call it? Wiffle--- pickle ball.
1:14:36 EG: Oh right!
1:14:36 HS: They got pickle ball courts out there. They switched to pickle ball. I guess somebody
donated a lot of money to convert the tennis courts.
1:14:42 EG: It’s a popular sport, it’s really taken off
1:14:45 MS: yeah.
1:14: 45 HS: It’s popular, and the courts were not well done to begin with. So I agreed with that.
At one point I was going to try to help out, try to get it straightened out for them but it didn’t
seem like they wanted to do it.
1:15:00EG: Um, well one of the questions I like as we’re wrapping up, uh, this interview today is
thinking about, we’ve talked so much about the past, but thinking about the future. So, we will
be saving these interviews for a long time. Imagine someone listening to this fifty or more years
from now. What are some things you’d like them to know about your life and about the
community right now?
1:15:24 HS: hmm. Well, I wouldn’t mind somebody remembering I was here, but I know that
won’t happen.
1:15:35 EG: Anything in particular that you might imagine someone in the future would want to
know or, you know about life in the, life in this place
1:15:46 HS: Well, I guess I want to have them respect their heritage that they inherited, you
know? The town that it was, and the hard life that people had to have to get here, to make this

�place happen. I mean, these people were all pioneers the people that started this town Douglas
in 18, I have a picture in my stuff that my dad, it was 1860 that the town was incorporated. My
dad is holding the original incorporation books.
1:16:11 EG: yeah
1:16:12 MS: wow
1:16:12 HS: My dad held that, and they had a centennial, centennial, uh, ceremony right in
Douglas.
1:16:17 EG: Right
1:16:17 MS: Oh yeah
1:16: 18 HS: at the time and Tid Lane (?) wrote a lot about about that in one of her books. And,
uh, but there was Schulz boys, picture of the Schulz boys. Well there were my dad’s uncles. I
know all, knew all of them. I saw all of them.
1:16:36 EG: yeah.
1:16:36 HS: At various times. There were a lot of Schulz’s around. And I wouldn’t mind being
one of them. Some of those guys were, were working hard. Schulz was a big name in this area a
long time ago. There’s still a bunch of them here. It’s really hard sorting it out. My daughter is
doing a, um, has started doing a, what do you call it? The family
1:17:00 MS: genealogy
1:17:00 EG: family tree
1:17:00 HS: genealogy study. And we’ve gone to cemeteries and tried to sort it out. It, it’s very
difficult to uh, keep it going. I’ve recently found a book that my dad kept records of for the
village of Douglas while he was clerk. And I’ve talked to Mary about that last night. Uh, I’m
going to keep the book. It’s part of our family, but it’s got stuff the village of Douglas should be
interested in.
1:17:24 MS: Oh nice
1:17:24 EG: mmhm
1:17:26 HS: And I’ve talked to the village of Douglas and they don’t have any interest in keeping
court records like that.
1:17:32 EG: right

�1:17:32 MS: interesting
1:17:33 HS: So, you guys are it
1:17:34 EG: That’d be something interesting to have a look at to consider scanning or just
making notes about what it is
1:17:39 HS: Oh that’s what Mary said, so I’m going to make an appointment with Mary here as
soon as I can.
1:17:44 EG: That’d be great.
1:17:44 HS: And, uh, loan it to her for whatever they take, but it’s, it’s uh, it’s like a little diary,
you know, like. I was surprised to find it. It had been in our stuff for years, but my brother in law
had taken over the old house, and cleaned out the old house, he and my sister. And my sister
died not that long after that. She was the family historian. And when she died, he, I don’t know.
He pulled switches with the houses. I don’t know, but he switched with his, his mother had died
about the same time. And they switched houses with his mother’s kids, kids’ in Grand Rapids,
his, you know, nephew. But he switched house, because they were living in Grand Rapids, and
in the process all this got stored somewhere. And one of the places was a storage bin. So they
had to clear the storage bin out and that’s where this stuff came from.
1:18:45 EG: Ok
1:18:45 HS: A couple of years ago.
1:18:48 EG: yeah
1:18:48 HS: but there’s still some major Schulz background stuff that is missing. My dad, we had
a special book with all that stuff.
1:18:54 MS: Oh
1:18:55 EG: right
1:18:56 HS: Because my sister was the historian, I said you keep it. That disappeared.
1:19:00 EG: Hasn’t turned up yet.
1:19:02 HS: yup
1:19:03 EG: yeah that’s always challenging, for sure.

�1:19:06 HS: I’ve got pieces of stuff because there were other family members and I’ve got bits
and pieces. And somebody turned in some stuff here that I didn’t have. Somebody else did, and
I don’t know where it came from. And that was Uncle Jack’s tavern up here. He had a tavern,
and you know I mentioned my aunt went to the war effort?
1:19:23 EG: mmhmm
1:19:23 MS: mmhmm
1:19:23 HS: Well after the war she came back, here, and in 46 they bought Bill Schulz’s
restaurant, and they couldn’t get a liquor license because it was too small. So he built a place
and got his liquor license across the street. And that became Douglas Tavern. Which became
Annie’s Woodshed years later when he died.
1:19:44 MS: I see
1:19:45 HS: And, uh, anyway 46, and you know, there’s a lot of that stuff she brought him back,
you know from the war effort. She got him some place.
1:19:53 EG: Very interesting
1:19:54 MS: Yeah
1:19:55 EG: Lots of, lots of change over time. Kind of a final question—biggest changes you’ve
seen in the community, and maybe things that have just remained consistent. What have you
seen that’s changed since you were a child here?
1:20:11HS: Oh, everything. The town was a ghost town in a lot of ways. Buildings were all old,
and the whole area in general, I would say has profited from the LGBT movement to some
extent. Because what’s happened, all these old forty acre farms, several of them have been
split up and sold and what have you, and to my knowledge a lot of them are being taken over
by these mixed, mixed couples, pairs.
1:20:42 EG: mmhmm, right.
1:20:42 HS: Not necessarily mixed, I don’t think. They can be mixed in that one can call it a main
residence, and the other one can call it not be a main residence.
1:20:53 MS: Ok
1:20:54 HS: And the pairs make money, and they (?) and old forty acre farm
1:21:03 EG: yeah.

�1:21:03 HS: And it’s nice and robust again, and they’re not making any money necessarily, but
they’re making money elsewhere. I, we met a lot, a couple of them, pilots for example, and
guys that are making some pretty good money. Lawyers. Two guys have bought my cottage.
One was a dentist, and I don’t remember what the other one was now, but they were
professionals. And, uh, they bought our cottage, you know, so they can have it on this tax roll
thing. You guys have probably hear of it, haven’t you? That the locals, second house, you pay
full tax on it?
1:21:34 EG: homestead tax. Homestead tax.
1:21:38 HS: The homestead tax, there’s only good for the homestead. So you can declare, one
guy declares it his homestead. And then the other does in the other place. It’s kind of common
in a lot of places now
1:21:50 EG: Interesting.
1:21:52 HS: So that gets them different, you know, a farm a forty-acre farm is big money for a
lot of people. In my grandparents’ days, a lot of people, and they could make a living off of it.
Fruit and what have you. Not so anymore.
1:22:08 EG: What, what remains, what’s something that’s consistent that you see that’s really
that remains much the same about this place? When you grew up and came here in the 1950’s
and 60’s and 70’s
1:22:22 HS: I think it’s still the same in, the uh, intent to entertain. Beach is, of course, our big
entertainment. Uh, I’m sorry to see things like the Big Pavilion never go rejuvenated because
that was a major, uh, maybe the town couldn’t have handled it. I don’t know. South Haven had
one. It burned. Uh, there’s been Pavilions like this in other towns up the street. Uh, that’s not a
form of entertainment anymore, but could be. I don’t know. You know, when I was a kid, I went
to go to those jam sessions, I saw Louis Armstrong a few times, well a couple times, and other
band, big bands. And that was fun too you know, and kids go to band places like that now. Even
bigger crowds now. So, is that what we want? Apparently the town didn’t want that because
we had the big jam sessions here. Do you remember the Newport Jazz Festivals? In the old
days? Did you ever hear of that?
1:23:29 EG: Read about them, sure. Yeah.
1:23:30 HS: Well, ok. I read about them because, because Playboy was always writing about
those and all the musicians that went to those festivals. And Saugatuck was trying to to do the
same thing. And they threw them out of town. You’ve probably gotten into the history enough
to see that.
1:23:48 EG: Oh sure. Yeah. The Great Jazz Festivals around 1960.

�1:23:54 HS: We were, our house was in Douglas, up to the East as I said here. Up on the hill kind
of where the river, Kalamazoo river homes are, and, um, we could hear the jazz festival that
was out at the airport. I never heard about the one that was in Saugatuck that was at Gosemer
Lake
1:24:09 EG: Right that was later.
1:24:12HS: Yeah, that was, I don’t know about that.
1:24:13 EG: Late 1960’s
1:24:14 HS: Must have been when I was out of town or something. And I traveled a lot in the
summer months. July and August, June, July, and September were key months for me to be on
the job going someplace else. Wondered why my wife didn’t divorce me as a matter of fact, but
she had her family and sisters and baby sitters. A couple of her sisters were able to babysit, and
she had things to do, so. And a couple of buddies that were lucky.
1:24:47 EG: mmhm. Yeah.
1:24:47 HS: And you get into racing. You know, I was really into racing at Ford so that was real
tough to back out of that. Cause I’m still in racing now, just watching it.
1:24:56 EG: [laugh] Wonderful. Is there anything else that we haven’t asked you about that you
would like to share as we conclude our interview for today?
1:25:10 HS: No, but I had friends in the auto industry that I get together with, and boy a lot of
stuff comes up sometimes. One of my friends was in Chrysler. He worked at Chrysler during the
racing days against Ford.
1:25:21 EG: Ok.
1:25:22 HS: We, uh, I don’t know any jam guys anymore, but it’s fun to get together to discuss
things that we have common interest in. And I love to see these shows, these history shows
that go back and dig into these kind of things.
1:25:37 EG: Yeah. We were at the Henry Ford Museum not too long ago, and they had a great
exhibit of course on Ford racing. That was um, that was really really interesting.
1:25:49 HS: Yeah, well, we were out of the country when Ford racing. Some of my buddies were
involved in building race cars that went to Le Mont. And Ford was rejected by Ferrari, they
wanted to buy Ferrari was kind of down on the outs, and Henry Ford was rejected, his offer to
buy Ferrari.
1:26:09 EG: What year, what year was that?

�1:26:11 HS: About 1964 or so
1:26:13 EG: Ok.
1:26:14 HS: He said we’re going to beat you anyway. We’re going to beat you big time. And he
did. Ford was founded on racing. That’s how Ford Motor company got its start was by Henry
Ford the Oneth out racing the guy that became the head of Chevrolet. He got the money, got
his backing to build a company. So that’s why I was always kind of, I was always pro Ford, even
though everyone else around here was Chevrolet. I had a couple Chevies. I had
1:26:50 EG: Was a Chevy town.
1:26:52 HS: Huh?
1:26:53 EG: It was a Chevy town
1:26:53 HS: It was a Chevy town. The closest Chevy factory. There was one in Grand Rapids and
one in Kalamazoo. Chevy factories, GM factories. And that, besides whatever I don’t know, all
chevies around here, pretty much, although model a was a pretty close second in some
categories. Like truck for example. I try to picture my dad’s, he had an old model a truck, and
they were hauling on the farm, and they were hauling loads of fruit, I’m not sure what it was.
They were, they were a pear farmer. Pears are, do you know what pears are, the types of
pears? Do you ever in the market at all? There’s only certain kinds that will be in a market,
because they’re firm. The good pears go so soft so fast you can’t hardly ship them. And if you
cut, pick them too early, you know, you’re not even getting them to market. So they’re really
tricky. Well they were a pear farmer. And peaches. Peaches were big around here. There was
Peach Belt School out our way. Anyway, they had a Chase School. That was my mother’s family
name, Chase.
1:28:08 EG: Right
1:28:08 HS: And, so anyway, they were taking Pier Cove at it. Pier, and they were taking this old
truck loaded with fruit out to the cove and getting it onto the ships to Chicago and wherever
else on the Great Lakes. Milwaukee of course is straight across. That’s even closer than Chicago.
But I think most of them went to Chicago market. Then there were years they did truck driving.
After the boats were not so popular, because you can’t do it in the winter, at only certain times
are they viable. And trucks, they were able to take, one of the guys here on the farm was still
taking to the Chicago fruit market not too many years ago, because they still have fruit in some
of the areas of south. Blueberries of course are the popular thing over here. They’ve all
discovered blueberries as a thing. Pretty nice thing to handle. And of course cherries up the
coast, you know, Traverse City way. All this fruit farming is still being used. It’s just different in
that way.

�1:29:10 MS: mmhmm.
1:29:11 HS: All these little farms folded that were trying to make money on that. You know my
grandpa’s was forty-acres. Any number of forty-acre places around my place that you can see.
Some of them split up the place and turned it into a house and thirty-nine acres or whatever.
It’s good to see the buildings not getting ripped up too bad, the stores. There’s some nice
architecture out there. There’s a guy next to, two guys next to me that have restore these old
home sites. One of them has go a lot farm. My property was on a big farm. And we got 14 acres,
but they split it all up in fives and tens, and uh, that one, so the apple trees that are there are
probably that big around, you know. But the Cranes are surviving. They are the survivors.
They’ve learned, you know, how to do it.
1:30: 13 EG: yeah. Well, that’s those are some great stories. I’m glad we connected with you.
Thank you so much for your time. I’m going to go ahead and stop the recording at this point
and conclude our formal interview.
Interview ends 1:30:28

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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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