306 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47c72f1fa6073a76cc958bb19744d849.jpg 823b225c21dadbe16cf0378d76e92d66 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X104 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar resitricted US fighter, April 1, 1952. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1952-04-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc054e718cb9b73a71ce164cab402681.jpg f3ec614a6543dca90fc69f83c3547c65 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X105 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar resitricted US fighter, April 1, 1952. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1952-04-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6e400c3705417cca3ac3820263ab0a3.jpg 988abe5d7262ddfff2e41f75c9de88e4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X14 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c5e28a5078f04b7279812378887b8ebc.jpg ee4ef5e21ee2f1280e898ef13273b10a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X22 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a8ab010edfa80c70a7ab188e33f7a1a.jpg 75dbca886264f7abbb5540af65035fda Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X23 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/26f6c13fd10af8314cba5a55dee77842.jpg 3a393bd9f6b25f9f60052d339ed8196a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X24 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2d3802308ac5f5b7fd99407447a626a2.jpg fd1f11396193eddcfffd03383bf3a7e0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X42 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/faf68bb71a76f36964536eaa2cf69438.jpg f72c5b26f7030d5eb3019f0719e86078 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X44 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6ad0f73dd5f634e061adb46ce160761.jpg 979496a9861d6938830e814bfc4dd8ef Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X45 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/336db5bfde76d90294684be6c77f7bb0.jpg 087feecaafee3630941b2fd8dac69c83 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X89 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-6 Cougar US fighter, September 1, 1953. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1953-09-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3cac0b4b6a4c875872720e5766fa8b32.jpg 946e8ff24cbc3778509c9a6b53d71520 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X579 Title A name given to the resource F9F-6 Cougar, fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F Cougar, US fighter, September 1, 1952. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1952 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cd69cebffa0193e39266bcfe4ac89017.jpg 0c08328cf78bc0d7b9f9297d1159c3ca Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X171 Title A name given to the resource F9F-8 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-8 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1955. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1955-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7fcdc579ac5b7cbebb83cd698fea384f.jpg 2365f3924e1f21ff041f9611aed4d76b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X187 Title A name given to the resource F9F-8 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-8 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1955. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1955-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/19ad7145a1e7fcd216b0dc26e9ef797a.jpg 63e9b473c86f1d24cc397da64ab5c7f2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X74 Title A name given to the resource F9F-8 Cougar fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-8 Cougar US fighter, March 1, 1955. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1955-03-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34f42c5e77b40421bd6d83783f1465fc.jpg 5e86b2d4a73c301926819586c3ea3a56 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_X38 Title A name given to the resource F9F-9 Tiger fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource F9F-9 Tiger US fighter, September 1, 1954. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education World War, 1939-1945 Airplanes, Military--Recognition Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1954 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/13f8b8b2a5ff4fc96732f79dcd42fb11.jpg 86d7bfbef87303b265e29a38009427d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FaberDiane Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Faber, Diane Description An account of the resource Diane Faber Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30c56dfa183531c1b659106f249e396e.mp4 7c565701a16da9d5a183d0992c4486f7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a6edac1a2426c2d27622346bd41da38f.pdf 088057bf3b67f3728086d4d63617a001 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Roger Faber Interview Length: (2:34.18) Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens James Smither: We’re talking today with Vietnam veteran, Roger Faber. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, Roger, start us off with some background on yourself; and to begin with where and when you were born? Roger Faber: Okay, I was born in Grand Rapids in Butterworth Hospital, November 5, 1945 and… JS: Now did your family actually live in Grand Rapids, or were you outside of it? RF: No, my family lived on Black Hills, in the city-limits, on the southwest side. And they were, I had a good upbringing. I had parents who loved me, they didn’t have a whole lot, but they took care of us. We had shoes and clothes; we had patches in the jeans and so on. But we were given a strong work ethic, it was very important, and also a high respect for authority quite literally. Whether it was a teacher in school, or the policeman, or the next-door neighbor, they were in charge, not- not us. And I was 11 years younger than my next sibling. They had a family, a sister and two brothers, and then I was, came way behind, so I was kind of like the second family. (1.49) JS: Right, you were the baby. RF: I had very nurturing parents and I’m thankful for that. I wish I had thanked them when I had the chance yet but that happens. JS: What were they doing for a living? �RF: My dad was a truck driver and delivered coal, back then, this was you know in the 50s. And my mother was stay at home, didn’t have a driver’s license. But one of my fondest memories is when I came home from school, she sat down with a cup of coffee and I had a glass of milk and some cookies, and we talked about my day. And then she said, “go change your clothes and go out and play.” We didn’t have television, and so we played in the neighborhood. It was a good- a good family, as were the rest of the neighbors. Very diverse, even somewhat racially integrated back then. Black Hills was, it wasn’t a racial thing, it was because of the black walnut trees. But it’s on the southwest side, kind of behind the Keeler Brass buildings on Godfrey. So, that’s where I grew up. JS: Okay, now did you finish high school? (2.55) RF: Oh yes. Yeah, I went to Christian school all the way. From Kindergarten through, I went to Southwest Christian, through ninth grade at the time, and then to Grand Rapids Christian High for three years. I graduated from there in January of 1964. They had half year classes, and you went from one grade to the next in January. And so I got into that; I started out in September, but when I was eight years old, I broke my leg pretty bad and I missed so much school, that I had to go back a half a year, because I missed about half a year. I took that and that’s how I got in that January class so to speak. JS: Alright, and now what did you do after you graduated? (3.37) RF: My brother had a painting business with Langenfaber Decorators. And I started working for him when I was sixteen, and I could drive and get to work. So, during high school, breaks and �summertime, I painted for him. I did that after high school for, I graduated in January ’64 and I did, I worked full time for him until March of ’65 when I went to Ferris. JS: Okay, and then you went so… but at that point, was it Ferris State College? RF: Yes, yeah. JS: Alright and what were you studying there? RF: Architecture. They had a program for architecture draftsmen. And I had had mechanical drafting in high school which I really enjoyed, but I didn’t want to draw threads on a bolt. I thought, you know, and I always had a fascination, I, when I was way back in middle school, I would buy magazines of house plans and study those and think, I can do that! I can do better! And so, I had interest in that and I- I knew I enjoyed painting, I still do, but I knew I that couldn’t do that for 50 years. My body wouldn’t take it. So, I thought, I better do something different. So, I made a decision I would, I, Ferris had that program, so I thought, I’ll apply to there, and if I get in, I’ll- I’ll try that. If I don’t, I will apply to the state police academy. Well, I got in Ferris. And went through, it was an eighteen months continuous program. And went through that and I got out of there in fine shape. I got a job in Madison, Wisconsin. Now this was ’65, ’66; I got done in August I guess of ’66. We were engaged for a year and I met my wife, of course, three years before that, but we dated and then we got married in September of ’66. I had this job in Madison, Wisconsin, but at that time, the draft was really on, cooking, in ’66. And getting back to my upbringing, we had this strong respect for authority, so I was engrained with the thought that don’t volunteer for the army, but if you’re drafted, you have to go, if you. Okay so that was my mindset. And evidently, the schools at that time, I had a student deferment while I was in school, and I can remember getting another deferment in the summer of ’66. But and I thought, well I’m all set for another year, because that’s what they usually were worth. Well, �evidently, the school had to notify your draft board that you’re no longer in school. So, somewhere along that winter of ‘66/’67, I got a notice for a- a physical, I was supposed to show up in Grand Rapids or go to Detroit. Well, I was living in Madison, so they arranged for me to go to, take a bus and go to Milwaukee and have a physical, which I did. That went well. It wasn’t a problem; I didn’t expect it would be. Although I, one interesting story there in Madison, when we got on the bus, the one fella had a prosthesis, a wooden leg. I’m thinking, man oh livin’ this, he should get deferred right here at the bus station, but he had to go. And then when we got to Milwaukee, they made him take his leg off before he got weighed. And then they told him to go sit down. But that was just kind of a humorous, that this is the way it goes, but so, I went through that and went back to work. And yeah in a few months, I got a notice for a draft that I had to go to, in May to a Grand Rapids bus station and I’d get inducted. (7.31) JS: Right, to back up a little bit, when you went for the physical, did you notice anybody trying to scam the system or were you aware of anything like that? RF: Well, there was talk about it you know, guys would eat soap or something to raise, I don’t know if any of that stuff worked. It, I suppose people tried to do things to flunk the physical, I did not. I again had this mentality you go if you’re physically fit, you’re gonna go. So, I didn’t, there wasn’t anything wrong, I guess. JS: But you didn’t really notice anybody doing anything like that? RF: No, no I didn’t. JS: Okay, now was the physical itself reasonably serious, or was it besides from the wooden leg thing, pretty cursory? �RF: It, well I don’t remember it being serious. We were all young, so we were healthy, generally. I think they were looking for things that would indicate that somebody was trying to get out of it, somehow. Whether they played like they were deaf, or because there would be a hearing test, and an eye test, I suppose, and blood pressure. It wasn’t you know, it wasn’t difficult, but I suppose they were looking for certain things and people that kept complaining. You know, they probably, you know they weren’t dumb. They could pick the- pick the guys out. (8.56) JS: Now, Madison’s also a college town. RF: Yeah. JS: At the time you actually went in, I mean did you notice any kind of anti-war stuff going on or were you aware of any of that? RF: I don’t think so, not then yet. I don’t, I think that came probably more in ’67. I wasn’t, I don’t remember. It’s a college town, and it’s a rather liberal town in their thinking, progressive maybe, but I can’t recall any demonstrations. There may have been some, but I just ignored it. JS: Yeah, and you weren’t in school yourself anyways. RF: No, no. JS: So, you had other things to do. Okay, and how much did you know about Vietnam at that point? RF: Nothing. Nothing. Probably couldn’t find it on a map. Other than being in the news, you know, you knew the word, but I didn’t know anything about the politics of it. I can’t recall, I learned most of that later. (9.54) �JS: Right, okay, so we get now, so it’s May of ’67 then you have to go and report now and be sent off for basic training. Where do you go for basic training? RF: I went from, well actually inducted in at Fort Wayne in Detroit, in that center. And that was kind of comical because we were supposed to have another physical. Well that physical was interesting, they said, “have you been to see a doctor since your last physical?” No, I hadn’t, so you passed. It was, that was the physical. JS: Right. And I had this recollection that the Marines would pick out people they wanted on some days and not other days. Well, the day I was going through, they weren’t picking anybody out, so I ended being sworn into the army. Got my service- service number: US 54967085; something you never forget. And they told us to memorize that on the train, no, we took a bus from Detroit to Fort Knox, Kentucky near Louisville. And I remember that was the weekend of the Kentucky Derby because there was all kinds of activity and hype and so on. But so, I went to Fort Knox for basic training. (11:15) JS: Okay, what kind of reception do you get at Fort Knox? RF: Well, you just, you know you get a haircut, and they throw all these clothes at you, and a box to put your civilian clothes in, and ship, they got shipped home. We were just, there were a lot of guys who were in the National Guard. And I don’t know, there’s a story about that too. Do you want to hear that? JS: Yeah. RF: When I was working in Madison, Wisconsin in a, in as an architectural draftsman for Flad and Associates, our spec writer was a major, we called him Sarge but he was a major in the �National Guard, and he could arrange to get us into the National Guard. But again, I opted not to do that, and that was a conscious decision that my wife Judy and I made. But when I- when I got to Fort Know for basic training, there were a lot of the guys in my company who were National Guard people there for basic training, so it was the same for everybody. The drill sergeants, there was, I don’t remember any physical abuse at all. Again, I was in pretty good physical shape, I could do what they asked me to do. They get kind of pushy you know and ask you to do silly things, but hey, that’s part of the thing, part of basic training, I guess. (12.44) JS: Alright, I mean had you kind of expect, I mean where you expected to be shouted at and that kind of thing? RF: Oh yeah. I kind of, I think I, my brother had, my older brother of the two brothers had been in the army during the Korean War, and so he probably clued me in a little bit. Not too much but… JS: Now did the instructors treat the guardsmen any differently from everybody else? RF: Not generally, but one guy did. He was also an attorney, and so he got some preferential treatment. Supposedly he had hemorrhoids and he couldn’t march, and this and that so he kind of got put off to the side. They didn’t treat us differently other than that, maybe. I do remember one other time, when we were just, on a Saturday, we were all put in formation and we had to march over to some building and we gave blood. This was not optional; it was just you did that. One fella was Jewish, and he objected to giving blood on the Sabbath. So, he was excused, but had to go back in on Sunday. And one of those things that happen in life that you know, that you just kinda don’t forget. They accommodated him. (13.58) �JS: Okay, alright so what did the actual basic training consist of? What were they making you do every day? RF: Mostly physical, PT, a lot of PT! That’s what you remember the most. You know, they told you when to get up, they told you when to shave, they told you… You’d have to think a whole lot. Everything was planned for you. We did a lot of running. Just obviously PT, they got us in shape. It, I don’t think basic training was terribly vigorous. Obviously, they told you how tohow to march, how to, where to make turns, and when to about-face, and present arms and order arms, and all that kind of stuff. How to salute properly. About revelry and about military courtesy and general orders on behavior. Classroom works like on first aid. We had these sticks with like a pillow on each end and we had to beat each other with it. Kind of silly, but I guess there was a reason for that too. (15.14) JS: Alright now did they give you; how did they figure out what to do with you coming out of basic training? RF: Oh, that was interesting, during basic training, well I guess when we got there, a day or two, we took written test. And I tried hard on the test to do my best, and I thought cause that’s a good thing to do. You do your best. And maybe one day I’ll go to the Army Corps of Engineers with my background, so I tried hard. And during basic training, they would call different guys out and talk to us about, you qualified to go be a radio repairman, or a medic, or I don’t know, just it’s a whole series of things. A warrant officer were specialized officers in particular field. But of course, they were looking for chopper pilots. I knew that was not a good idea. And I kept saying no, cause I probably even said, “look, I’m here for two years and I’m gonna go home.” So, you got two years, not three. And then one time they called out just two of us and said, “you scored �pretty well on your test and we can arrange to have your Congressman.” Who at that time was Jerry Ford for Grand Rapids or Kent County. “We can have, we can arrange to have your Congressmen an appointment to West Point for you.” “Oh, and how long is that?” “Well, you’ll be there for four years and then a five-year commitment following.” “No, no, like I said before, two years, then I’m done.” And so, I, my opinion what happened, is in my chart, or in my file, it was written down as “noncompliant;” this guy just says no to everything. I mean he does what he’s told but he’s not going to sign up. And so, at the end of basic training, a day or two before the end, we got orders, and my orders were for Fort Polk for 11-Bravo, 11-B. I don’t know what that is. So, I go to the orderly room and say, “what’s this?” Oh, the guy says, “that’s small arms infantry.” Whoa, so, I of course wrote home or called home; this is where I’m going, Fort Polk small arms infantry. Well, my wife’s grandma, who had for years written back and forth to Jerry Ford, just communicating, and so on and so forth. So, she writes Jerry Ford and says she didn’t think her grandson should be in the infantry. And he probably checked, and he, or he knew, and anyway she got a letter back, I wish I had that letter. He wrote back and said, “you’re right, your grandson probably shouldn’t have to be in the infantry, but if a person is drafted, the army can assign them to any job they qualify for. Now, your grandson qualified for a lot of things, but one of them is the infantry.” So, that’s how I got that. I attribute it to the fact that I was so stubborn. I, later I oh, OCS with another thing they offered. And piolet and all this stuff. Well OCS (Officer Candidate School,) I was told, or believed at the time, that you could sign up for OCS, go to that school, and then while you’re waiting for your class to start, you could say, “eh I think I changed my mind.” And then you could probably fall between the cracks, and they would say, “well, Faber, what can you do?” “I’m an architectural draftsman.” “Well, why don’t you go see �this Army Corps of Engineers building?” Well, I didn’t- I didn’t know that at the time, or I didn’t think that at the time, so I said no to OCS along with everything else. (19.10) JS: Well, I have interviewed somebody who tried that particular tactic and eventually wound up in the infantry anyway. Actually, went through most of it before he wound up there. But yeah, they were kind of onto- onto that one. RF: Oh, well, they probably should have been. So, I, that’s-that’s but… I- I think the reason I kept saying no, was that they figured, “this guy, we got a job for him, and we’ll give it to him.” Right or wrong, that’s what happened. JS: Well, the certainly needed foot soldiers. RF: That’s right! There was, that was the biggest need they had. JS: Okay, so now what was Fort Polk like? RF: Oh boy! It was hotter. Because now, I went in in May, so basic is two months. So, June, July, middle of July I take, get on a train for Fort Polk. I think we ended up in New Orleans or something because there was this Dixieland Band there at the train station and then a bus to Fort Polk. And this- this is the middle of July; it’s hot. And they were remodeling the barracks, so we lived in tents, or slept in tents. That was okay, the sides were rolled up, and you’re so tired you sleep. First time I ever saw an armadillo on the bus ride into Fort Polk. Never, didn’t even know what the thing was at first. And of course, they told us about snakes that you had to watch out for. At that time, at Fort Polk, they had a special area called Tiger Ridge, and that’s where we had AIT, or advanced infantry training on this Tiger Ridge and it was intense. It wasn’t undoable, but it was intense. The PT got more intense. The training got more intense. My two worst days, I think, in basic and AIT were pulling KP. To me, this made no sense. Get up at 4 �o’clock and just at the mercy of some mess sergeant who he, this was his- his time to shine you know. He could tell us what to do and, miserable days. I didn’t- I didn’t like the other days, but they weren’t as bad as KP, and for me. (21.33) JS: Alright, now were they consciously gearing your training for Vietnam? RF: Oh yes! Clearly, clearly! They talked about it all the time. And most of the drill sergeants and I think were, yeah, they talked about it, they were vets from Vietnam, they had been there. And so that was all the time, it was clearly we’re training you to go to Vietnam. No question about it. It just oozed from them that this is where you guys are going. Although, during that summer of ’67 occurred the war in Israel. For and so, then there was this big thing; well maybe you guys are gonna go to Israel, you know they got this war, seven days, I think. Seven-day war? JS: Yeah, six, six-day war. (22.23) RF: And of course, so, that died down and back to Vietnam you guys are going. It was- it was physically more strenuous, and I suppose mentally too, they were trying to toughen you up both ways. We had lessons on how to react in an ambush. I don’t think it ever worked that way, but we were told and trained that if you get ambushed, you don’t hit the ground, you turn into the direction of fire and you charge it. Well we didn’t do that in reality, but that was a training, and I suppose there would be an element of surprise if all these GIs did that. But it worked okay when everybody was firing blanks, but in the real world, they weren’t blanks anymore, so things were a little different. You had to know more about where this was coming from than just say, “well I think it’s coming from over there, that’s the way I’m going.” Not, it didn’t work that way. But it was, I- I think they treated us a little bit better, but again, I had this, my attitude was a bit of an �issue. I did what I was asked to do, but one time…we would run from one class or range to another one, again, I understand why, but always we would have to wait before the next class would start, for the stragglers. One day, I don’t know what was in me, but I decided that hey if they’re gonna wait, I’m gonna walk. So, I walked from one to another. Of course, I took a lot, quite a bit of abuse from the drill sergeants because this was not normal for me. But I said, “look, they’re gonna wait for me to get there, I know it, we’re gonna wait.” Probably didn’t help either. JS: Yeah. (24.19) RF: But you know, you, I had gotten to a point where I just felt, this, I’m tired of this. Run back and forth. You know just, come on, give us something that, make it more meaningful! JS: Okay, now were you a little older than most of the guys you were training with? RF: Yeah, I guess so. I- I was 21. But yeah, I was older than those that were enlisted out of high school, or something, so I was a little bit older. And I- I had, I was married, and I had been to college. And I had a career that I wanted to pursue. I had my faith and I just, I didn’t want to be… I- I chaffed at the idea of being treated so, in such a way. JS: Yeah, because part of it is sort of programming people and when you’re younger, you’re easier to program. (25.08) RF: Oh yes, but I will say, the army is very good at training people to do what- what they want them to do. There’s no question about that because they did it to me and they did it to all of us. And for most of us it was effective down the line, for some. And nobody knows how they will react in a fire fight until you’re in one. And sometimes guys just froze, they just, they couldn’t function. And you don’t know that, training doesn’t- doesn’t do that. Yeah, they, it was intense. I �got to say too when I went in the service, when I got drafted, I weighed 150 pounds. When I got out of AIT, I weighed 175, and that was not fat, you know I was just muscle and shape. So, they did that. On the other hand, when I came back from Vietnam, I weighed 150 pounds again. JS: Right, now while you were in basic and then AIT, did you ever get to go off the base? (26.15) RF: I did once in basic training. We were allowed one, three-day pass. And at that time, my brother, Warren, who had been in Korea, and his wife, Verna, brought my wife Judy down and I had this- this weekend pass, and we stayed in Louisville. So, I got off. And AIT, I don’t remember anything like, I don’t remember getting off base, whether it was offered or if I had been offered, I would’ve done it. But I think I was on the base. I never left this ‘Tiger Ridges’ as they called it. JS: Okay, alright so is AIT another eight weeks? RF: Yes. JS: Okay and then what happens at the end of that? RF: I get a 30-day leave. You get orders, and my orders were to report to Fort Lewis, Washington on a specific day in October. And I finished up in September, so from middle of July, middle of August, middle of September, I got a 30-day leave before you go overseas. And so, first time I’d ever been on a plane. I took a plane from Fort Polk to the Dallas Fort Worth airport, what do they call it? Love Airport, maybe? Whatever it is. And from there I took a flight from there to Chicago. Never been on a plane before, so that was a new experience. JS: Okay. RF: Turns out I’d be on a plane a lot. JS: Yeah. �RF: And my wife met me in O’Hare Field. I kid you not! I was walking through the airport, I had to buy a ticket to get to Grand Rapids and my wife and I met right at a corner in O’Hare Airport! It was incredible! She went, she had flown down to meet me. So, that was really, really, really nice! So, I had a 30-day leave and that was good. As you can imagine, we could spend time with family and… (28.17) JS: Yeah, but you know you’re going to Vietnam? RF: Oh yeah, yeah that’s in the back of your mind. But also, I, there’s this faint hope that something will go different at Fort Lewis. You know you always got, I- I had this illusion that something will turn out, something will work out. And but, I should have known better. But it was a nice- nice 30-day leave. This was, everybody got that before they went overseas. And all I had to do was get from Grand Rapids then to Fort Lewis. On you, and you got paid when you left Fort Polk. Travel, mileage, from Fort Polk to Fort Lewis, whatever that mileage was, I don’t remember the rate. But, so, you used that money to buy tickets. JS: Right, okay so now you go out to Fort Lewis. How long do you stay there? (29.12) RF: Just a few days. And I remember this was October, and it was drizzling all the time. Now you really didn’t want to be outside, but of course, you had to go to the mess hall, and I suppose there was some paperwork and things they had to check. And of course, there was constantly, Fort Lewis is right adjacent to McChord Airforce Base, and which was convenient. You know we processed at Fort- at Fort Lewis. And I- I can just think, it was a few days. And then I of course was told or given paper that we’re gonna get on a bus someday at a certain time and haul you over to McCord Airforce Base. �JS: Alright now when you fly to Vietnam, were you on a commercial plane or military? RF: Yeah- yeah this was commercial, chartered. And they packed us in as much as they could. I want to say they were 737s, but I know they had a center aisle that was just this wide and three seats on each side of the aisle, and pack it in. We got food in a box or something to eat, which was okay. It was a long flight. I can remember coming home better as far as time goes, but it’s about 24 hours. JS: Okay. RF: We stopped in Hawaii. And we stopped on Wake Island in Guam to refuel, I guess. You didn’t get off the plane, you just stayed on. Nobody wanted us around, in case we’d run away, I guess. JS: Yeah, alright so where did you land in Vietnam? (30.52) RF: Cam Ranh Bay. JS: Okay. RF: And that I wrote in my journal too. We’re approaching Vietnam, and it’s dark, it’s nighttime. And I think, wait, we’re going to Vietnam. How do you do this in the dark? You know, they’re probably giving me a gun and say, “show up in a year and we’ll take you home.” Literally! I was afraid! And as we come closer and closer, there’s lights on all over. And I’m thinking this is terrible! I wasn’t prepared for that. And of course, we landed. And there’s buses and lights on, and herd you on the next bus and bring you to a barracks. And you can find a bunk and we’ll wake you up in the morning to eat breakfast. I got, I woke up and I went outside; there were guys waterskiing on the bay and I thought, boy this isn’t that bad! This is pretty nice! And little did I know, I, this was only my first stop you know. But was only there a couple of days too in the in- �processing center. They were, they moved you right on through. They had the, the skins were greased man, they knew this operation! JS: Okay now did you have orders to go to a specific unit or did you only get those after you got to Vietnam? RF: Got to Cam Ranh Bay and then you got orders to go, in my case, to the 1st Cav. I don’t know if it included Bravo Company at that time, but it was to the 1st Cav. in An Khê. JS: Okay. Alright, and how did they get you there? RF: By plane. (32.33) JS: Is this now a military transport? RF: Oh yeah, now we’re on a military plane. Like a C131, I think, I’m pretty sure, or 123. But anyway, we flew from Cam Ranh Bay up to Da Nang, as I learned later what Da Nang was all about, which was further north. And we, no processing there but that then we got on probably a Caribou, which was a smaller plane, and from there we went to An Khê from Da Nang. JS: Okay, what part of south Vietnam was An Khê in? RF: I would say the Central Highlands, as I recall. It’s about half-way, approximately. And the army base there was Radcliffe, Camp Radcliffe, but we always called it An Khê. It was a little tiny village just outside of Radcliffe, Camp Radcliffe. We just called it “O-Business” An Khê. (33.32) JS: Right, now the base itself was pretty good size though, right? RF: Oh yeah! That was a good size, I have a hard time judging it. But it was a good, yeah and all wooden barracks. There was a hospital there, or an infirmary. Motor pool, fuel depot, I didn’t see �much of that. Again, when you get to the airstrip, get on another bus or some vehicle and brought us over to, in my case, to the, I guess to the First- First Battalion or Brigade I don’t know. JS: You’ve got, I mean a division breaks down into Brigades, and the Brigades are made up of Battalions, and Battalions have Companies in them. And you were in Bravo Company, so B-Company, that’d be First Battalion normally. RF: Fifth Cav. JS: Yeah, Fifth Cavalry Regiment. RF: Which would have been like a Brigade. You know, Fifth Brigade, 1st Cav. Division. So, I was in Bravo Company, or B. And again, there’s some orientation that you do, they’re treating you much better, you know. JS: Okay, what kind of orientation do you get? (34.41) RF: Well we- we I can remember clearly sitting on some bleachers watching a combat air assault, which the Cav. just did constantly. We did that two or three times a day. Bring in, they would bring in some artillery rounds and then some gunships firing rockets down and then choppers with, Hueys with guys on that you’d jump out and create a perimeter around this landing zone that you were hitting. And we witnessed one of those, just so we knew what that was all about. We got our first chopper ride, and I remember thinking, God there’s no doors on this thing; you sit on the floor with your feet on the skids and your pack and a rifle and all this gear. And by George, I don’t want them to turn so that my side is down because I’ll just slide right out. That doesn’t happen because of centripetal force just, you’re just stuck there. But the first time, there’s a little anxiety, but still, I thought, hey, people do this all the time. I’m, I get no worse off than the rest of them, if I fall out, I won’t be the first one. But so, we had our first �chopper ride. We just kind of buzzed around, and so that was good. I got to tell you something that happened there though! We were sleeping in a barracks, and this guy comes in from the field. He was soon to go home within a few days, so he was out-processing as we were inprocessing, we’re all in the same building. And he comes in the building carrying a helmet that he had had. And that helmet had a gun shot that went in kind of from the back and came out the front. It was a good-sized hole. More, not an M-16 or even an M-60, but maybe an M-50 round. And he had that thing on when that thing, when it got shot. And he said but the only injury he had was a piece of the steel pot that’s imbedded in his neck. But he was given permission to take that helmet home. He showed us, the round went through there, it went through the steel pot and the helmet liner, and he had some letters; we always tucked our letters inside the helmet liner in between the web and the fiberglass to keep them dry, because everything was wet. So, tuck your letters in there that you wanted to write home about. And it even sliced through the upper level of that letter in his helmet. Boy, was that an eye opener! But they had given him permission to take that thing home with him because that was quite the souvenir. But it didn’t get him to go home, it just, he could take, it was his time to go home, he had been there a year. JS: Right- right, okay so… Of course, that didn’t do much for my confidence about. (37:48) JS: Yeah, when you were in the orientation, did they try to teach you anything about Vietnam or the Vietnamese people, and how to deal with them? Or just stay away from the women? RF: Well, yeah, I guess. I think some of that went way back to AIT. Because a lot of transmitted diseases, and you’re still representing your country here, you know- you know how to behave. �But yeah, there was lessons like that probably back at AIT and probably reinforced again there, although I don’t remember the specifics of that. JS: Alright and then once you finish that orientation, now do they send you to your unit? RF: Yes. I don’t remember, we must have been choppered out, but now you’re getting fewer and fewer. Now there’s probably only two of us that were gonna go out to Bravo company, maybe, maybe I was the only one. But at any rate, choppered out. Don’t know where I’m going, of course. Turns out, they were guarding bridges in what they call the Bong Song Valley. And it was a river, and it had bridges on it. And they, the army did that, they- they would… did this several times, they would take you out of the field and give you some light duty, which was kind of nice. You got to sleep in a bunker and get a little more rest and you didn’t walk all day through the jungle, so it was a break. They at that time, Bravo Company was guarding bridges, so I ended up, got dropped off by the end of this bridge, and I don’t know, somebody probably met me, they knew I was coming. And they knew what squad and I was gonna be, what platoon and what squad, I don’t remember if I was in the first, second, or third platoon, but I remember the squad: there were three of us; a squad was just three. And the other two guys were stationed at this bridge, but they were up on a hill, near the bridge, at a bunker, at kind of an outpost, and they were spending their- their day out there, and maybe their night. But anyway, somebody walked with me up there and introduced me to these two guys. I don’t remember their names. One of them was a really, a small guy, wiry and hardened, and the other guy was much, a little bit bigger. And but introduced me, and we probably sat around after a few minutes talking about where you’re from and what’s your name and this and that. And then they said, “but why don’t you just stay down at the bridge while we’re here? You know, meet some of those guys since we don’t really need you up here anyway.” That’s great, okay. So, back down by the bridge, and �there’s this little bunker built above ground right at the end of the bridge. It’s a fairly wide river, and there was also people guarding on the other end of the bridge, maybe that was a different platoon. So, we killed time during the day, you didn’t have much to do. At night… and of course, the chopper would bring out food. So that was all good. Chopper would come out in the morning with breakfast, ammunition if you needed it, you just help yourself. And C-rations to eat at noon. And then hot meal again at night, more ammunition, and mail. At night, I had to take my turn walking halfway across the bridge and back, and a guy from the other side would walk his halfway across the bridge and back. And we were supposed to drop hand grenades over the edge from time to time. Don’t know why, except that maybe we just let the Vietnamese know we were still awake and know we were there. And so, we decided the thing to do is, if you drop, just pull the pin, let the lever fly, you got four seconds in design. If you did that real quick, the hand grenade would fall in the water and the mud and water would fly up all over the place. If you- if you flipped it out too soon, let go of it too late, it would go off before it got to the water, and then just powder the bottom of the bridge, which was just wood with gaps between, with shrapnel. So, we decided the best thing to do is to wait a couple seconds after you let the lever go, and try to, and just a game, see if you could get it to explode just as it hit the water. Kind of a dumb thing to do, but you got to do something. And you do that for an hour, hour and a half, whatever you’re supposed to, and then you wake up the next guy, and then he’d take his turn. We did that, another thing that happened when we were there, is a chaplain came out. Didn’t see the chaplain very often, but once in a while the chaplain would come out to the field. And I remember that time, because it was the first time. And he, I don’t know if he was Protestant or Catholic, doesn’t matter; he was Christian. And because the Catholic fellas would go up and have confession, walk up. And those of us where Protestants, we just sat there. And so that was okay. He, I remember �he couldn’t wait to get back on a chopper and take off. And we were in a- in a fairly secure place. And we didn’t take any gunfire; it was no problem the few days we were there. But then that ended, and then we go back out in the boonies. (43.19) JS: Okay, now during the day were you checking the traffic as it went back and forth. RF: No. JS: Just let the Vietnamese come and go? RF: No. Unless you saw something that was very unusual, if there’s some guy carrying a gun. But there were always what we call ARVNs. They were, they would be on the buses or motorcycles and we never knew what they were doing. Didn’t really pay much attention to them. You didn’t, gotta admit I didn’t trust them a whole lot, and I don’t think any of us did. JS: Yeah that’s the ARVNs, that’s the South Vietnamese Army. RF: Yeah, yeah. JS: Okay, what impression by now do you have of the Vietnamese themselves? You’re watching them on the bridge and that kind of thing for a few days. Did anything register with you yet? RF: The language kind of irritated me. No, it was not their fault, but I didn’t know what they were saying. And there’s always this, “what are you talking about?” You know, of course, they didn’t know what we were talking about either. But yeah that- that has stuck with me for many, many years. I’ve finally gotten over that. God, probably 20, 25 years ago, I was in a McDonalds and there was a Vietnamese family and they were talking Vietnamese and it kind of made the hair stand up on the back of my neck, just the remembrance. So, that struck me. I don’t know if it was when I was at the bridge, but another thing is they, we thought they- they chewed beetle nut, �and it was I think it was a gum or a narcotic, I don’t know what it was, but their teeth would turn black, so they often looked like they didn’t have teeth. That struck me. And of course, their clothes, they often, the women, in these black clothes, the pants and everything black, and these hats. And you kind of get used to that real quick. They would try, I don’t remember, it wasn’t there specifically, but they were always… typically, if you were interacting at all, they were trying to sell you stuff because they wanted money. Can’t blame them. (45.24) JS: Okay, now when you’re on bridge duty, I mean were you getting solicited by people at all or? RF: No, I don’t remember that. JS: Okay, alright so how long did you stay at the bridge? RF: Oh, just a, I think if I had gotten there when the platoon had gotten there…the battalion…the company, it might have been a week. But I was probably there three or four days. JS: Okay alright so what comes next? RF: Okay, out in the field. And that was my first experience of a real combat air assault. And we did that, and then when you hit the ground, then the lieutenant of the company would say, “okay, we have to go so many klicks or kilometers in a certain direction,” and he’d point out somesomething on horizon that we’re heading towards. And these were always what the army called “search and destroy.” And we believe that there was some intelligence that said there was some activity in this area. Maybe you run, you were told you were gonna run across a village, maybe not. So, you did that, and you got to where you were supposed to go, and then the next thing you know, well they’re saying we got to make a little clearing for choppers they’re gonna, hey bring you someplace else and you do the same thing. And that would happen two or three times during �the day. Of course, again, the routine was in the morning, everything kind of works together. How a company operated with three rifle platoons and a mortar platoon. And the mortar platoon, you were always together but at night, the mortar platoon… you’d set up this LZ, a small camp, and the mortar platoon would be in the center, and one rifle platoon would build a perimeter around it, dig a little fox hole wide enough for three of you- you always worked in three. These two guys I met, we, the three of us were always together. And other groups of three. Well and if you were gonna stay with the mortar platoon, which was rotated between the three rifle platoons, one night with them, two nights on ambush, dig this little fox hole that three of you could sit at the edge and get your feet in there and pile the dirt out in front and build a hooch behind it so you got to sleep under the ponchos. And somebody had to be awake at each spot each, all the time, so you rotate, everyone got rotated again: hour and a half awake, wake up the next guy, he was awake for an hour and a half, and the third guy an hour and a half, or an hour, whatever you agreed. And then in the morning, every morning, the two platoons that were on ambush would come back in. And then food choppers would show up with breakfast, ammunition… oh, and I think, I was told it was unique to the Cav., we had this mad minute where all the rifle platoons would fire one clip of ammo through their rifle to clean it out. We never cleaned them, we just squirted mosquito repellant in the chamber and run 18 rounds through it to clean the thing out of the dirt and water. So, we got ammo; if you needed it, you helped yourself. Hot breakfast, God, I don’t eat pancakes to this day! Pancakes, pieces of pancake and some eggs, instant eggs. But you ate because you were hungry. And then they also threw out these boxes of C-rations. A carton, several cartons, enough for everyone to have C-rations. You opened up the top, flipped it upside down on the ground, the whole carton, because the names of the meals were printed on the top. And you pull the carton off and so now you got probably a dozen boxes on the ground, but you �don’t know which one. So, everybody’d pick up a box and whatever that box was, that was your lunch. Except, that nobody liked ham, well, most people didn’t like ham and lima beans. And one that I think nobody ate was ham and eggs chopped. But there was spaghetti and there was pork stake and scalloped potatoes, that was pretty good, spaghetti was good. But I can remember the two bad ones. We had a Sargent Bacon, was the first sergeant in our company, a big black man. He loved ham and lima beans, so whoever got ham and lima beans go find Sargent Bacon and trade whatever he had for your ham and lima beans, so you could at least get rid of that. If you had ham and eggs chopped, just leave it! Take the little cup of applesauce or peaches with you, little can of fruit, take the sundry pack; which had like hot chocolate mix in it, and toilet paper, salt and pepper and sugar, yeah maybe some toothpaste, a can opener. So that was every morning, and then away you go again, more combat air assaults. So, you know just day after day. This was just, oh man it- it… I didn’t say it was meaningless, it was boring in many, most of the time, except when you made contact and then just in an instant, everything changed. You had a rush of adrenaline and everything’s changed. But most of the time, it could be days, nothing happens. Except you just… (51.30) JS: Okay, now what was ambush duty like? RF: Ambush? That was always interesting. Again, when the company ended for the day, wherever that might be, you set up this camp for the night. Mortar platoon, one platoon, rifle platoon around it. So, two nights you had to go on ambush and well, you’d eat supper, get mail, ammunition, supper, mail. And that was always nice, and then go out on ambush. And whoever was pulling point, it was, you didn’t know where you were going to go, but the point man, and I was one, the three of us pulled point for our platoon. So again, we rotate everything. You know �you’d pull point for a day and then you’d have two days where you didn’t, you’d be the second and third guy. So, the point guy that day, would go out, and if you found a little stream, maybe you’d seen it earlier in the day, or some other feature, and you think, well, there could be a spot for an ambush. But you tried to get there just at dusk. And if it wasn’t quite dark enough, you’d just walk past it, make a big loop, come back at dusk. And then everybody laid down, the three of you, again. And about five yards over, or the army said meters, five meters over, another group of three, and three, and three. Well, the first, the end groups of three, you had a Claymore mine and you walked the Claymore mine out, I think it was like 150 feet or something, I don’t know what that wire was. You’d put the firing cap in the Claymore mine. The Claymore mine was probably about that long, that high, that thick, plasticine case. You’d slip the firing pin in it and walk the wire back to the trigger at your position. That’s what the two end groups did, so that if you heard something coming through you could fire this claymore mine. But you didn’t fire the claymore mine until right away. You wanted whoever was coming to get in your line of fire, but if more was happening, you could always fire this claymore mine. So, you did that. Now, you did not build a hooch. You were just laying down in the grass, the wet, if it was raining you were in the rain and whatever, it was dark by now. And again, three of you. Somebody had to be awake and you just reach over and wake up the next guy. And no fox hole, everything was quiet, and you spent the night then. (54.23) JS: What kind of terrain were you in? Were you in the highlands or lowlands closer to the coast? RF: Yeah, we were at that point we were in the highlands. Which is quite a, I don’t know if ‘jungle’ is the right word. We went through thick stuff, even if we were on a trail that the �Vietnamese had built or cut. They were this short, and we were all you know, other than this one guy, I can’t remember their names…but the three of us…this one guy was a little bit shorter but I’m six foot tall. I had to stoop over to get through here. There were times when you actually, if you were pulling point, you carried your weapon on semi-automatic. Everybody else behind you was supposed to be on safe and you could flip it to automatic. We never fired these M-16s on fully automatic. First of all, the recoil just, you couldn’t control where you’re shooting enough. So, the point man is on semi-automatic, and everybody else is supposed to be on safe. Just for, because you’re going through thick brush sometimes and the trigger could get jerked, action. But so, what was I gonna say? It was something, oh, the point man, if you were walking after combat air assault and you got the instructions on where you were going, it was the point man’s, nobody gave him/ told him how to get there, you picked your own way, and everybody followed, nobody complained, you know if he picked a bad route and had to chop through some jungle with a machete, so be it, he did it. He has to make the way for us. There were rice patties around, and we’d often end up walking through rice patties. I felt sorry for the Vietnamese, they would be screaming at us. Of course, we didn’t know what they were saying, but you knew they weren’t happy. And I don’t know if it bothered us a lot. I felt bad for them, but hey, I had a job to do. I got to get through here. Didn’t, that wasn’t nice, and no wonder they hated us. You know, here’s a guy trying to raise rice for his family, he doesn’t want a car in his driveway. He doesn’t want a television in his hooch, he wanted rice! The rice patties were dirty water. They would, they had terraced them a little bit so the water would run through a gutter in the dyke into the next one until the water gradually found its way. (56:59) JS: Would you walk on the dykes or would you slog through? �RF: Sometimes we walked right through the water. Sometimes on the dyke, but that was probably not the safest. The safest place was in the rice patty, there weren’t, we didn’t worry about land mines in the rice patty. We worried about little trip wires on the dykes, so. You’d probably take the- the patty over a tripwire. JS: Okay. RF: The, but when you got… the next time you got a break, you didn’t take a break in a rice patty, but you got on some dry, higher ground, and you’re gonna okay, we’re gonna take a break. Whether it was for lunch or whatever the reason, you take your boots off because almost always you would have leeches on your legs, your ankles, and up your calf a little ways. Couldn’t pull them off. They were, oh, probably 3/8 inches wide as I recall, and maybe an inch or inch and a half long. Gray, dark gray and they would be attached. And there’s two ways to get them off: either use a cigarette lighter and heat them up and they would drop off or you take mosquito repellant and squirt them, and they would drop off. But you always did that, and your feet were always wet. No socks, just boots. Wet and dirty! (58.17) JS: Now when you were going over land, would you use trails when they were available, or did you stay off of them? RF: That was up to the point man, his judgment on what this looked like. The problem with walking on the trail is that’s the best place to get in an ambush. Because they knew Americans tended to be a little lazy and they wanted to find the easiest way to get to wherever they wanted to get. And, but again, it was the point man. I don’t remember taking us, leading us on a trail. Maybe for a short distance, but you’re always on high alert. Actually, the best place to be in this whole company, which as I recall, we were about 80 strong, I think we were understaffed, but 80 �was about what we ever had. And you’re all walking with about five yards between you. Safest place to be, except for trip wires, was at the front end or the back end, because if you’re going to get in an ambush, they’re going to take the middle group, so in some sense, pulling point was not a bad thing, except you had to be extra alert. (59:37) JS: Now how long were you in that highlands area? RF: For the, my entire time in the field I was in the highlands area. A couple of experiences that I had then; one time it was my turn to pull point and a couple I don't really remember I might be combining two times because just for the sake of time now. I, it was my turn to pull point that day and I had a bad feeling about it, but you can't- can't say well I don't want to do this, you're here Faber, do your job. So, you don't complain but I was nervous about it. It didn't feel good and we were on a- on a little trail or it was wide enough to have a vehicle on, but we were we're kind of, I was getting instructions from the lieutenant on where we had to go, how far. And I prayed that this was gonna be okay today and we it was a grassy area and what we called the elephant grass it was tall grass but probably on me, up at my chest. Elephant grass we called it, for… it was tall and I'm heading through here so I wasn't too worried about an ambush because there was no place for anybody else to hide and it was quite a ways away from this little road or trail that we had left and I could see that there was a bald spot in the grass. So, I thought wow that could be a hole in the ground or something, I don't know what's kind of curious. So, I kind of angle over there and I got closer and I thought kinda looks like a truck tire, what in the world is a truck tire doing out here in this field. Take a few more steps and it was a python just rolled up digesting his meal I guess and so I said to the guy behind me, “had a big snake here.” So, I not going to kick the snake so I walked and kept going but I would turnaround periodically and some �of guys would walk up and take a picture and some guys would be walking way over here you know. It was kind of humorous. Everything went good, but when I prayed I did have this calmness, say Rog, it's okay whatever, you're fine, you're okay. So, that was good now I don't know if those two were the same day, you know this is 50 years ago literally and, but it was it was boring most of the time- most of the time. I felt sorry for the Vietnamese. These we'd come across these little villages and they're just scared to death of us, you could tell that they would cower and- and I think that they- they tried not be friendly but to… didn't want to do anything to upset us. So, they didn't hardly dare move and I'm sure that when the VC or NVA would come along they would behave similarly, they would be friend of course they could speak the language, we knew nothing. We didn’t have an interpreter in the field with us. We didn't have any I think S3 is intelligence that was all back at on An Khê. If we took a prisoner, we get him on a chopper or a casualty, a Vietnamese casualty, get him on a chopper, and they’d fly back to An Khê and take care of whatever happened back there. We would do first aid on them if they had been wounded but we didn't. (1:03.19) JS: Okay just, so you arrive basically what in October of ‘67 or November? Okay and… RF: October I got there. JS: Yeah alright and then how long do you spend actually with… RF: In the field like that? Well what we call it, well again I want to touch on a few other and incidents when we would get a break from this field business and we one time we went back to An Khê and we were on QRF a Quick Reaction Force. And then we- we were allowed to have a couple of guys maybe go to the PX, but most of us had to be there at that barracks that if something happened, we could jump on choppers and respond. So, we got a call we- we had to �get on these Deuce and a half trucks because there was a traffic problem between An Khê and Pleiku, a traffic issue. We got out there and that issue was a python was on the road and just on the shoulder and these little guys on these motor scooters didn't want to go around and the buses were jammed up and so what you gonna do, what are we gonna do? So, we shot it. I mean we shot it and shot it, we- we don’t mess with a snake. Well then, they- they get a call, the radio man gets a call that the- the captain, the adjutant wanted, this snake. Oh, you got to be kidding we got to get this snake up on the Deuce and a half, what a job, but we did it. I was in back- back at An Khê at some point and this, talk to this adjutantnt he was- he was from Wyoming, City of Wyoming so we had a little bit in common I could lieutenant or Captain Holbeeke was his name and I said, “what about that snake? Whatever happened to that snake?” He said, “I'll show you.” He rolled it out it was 22 feet long at the widest part it had to be 18 inches wide all dried and this was his souvenir, his souvenir he didn’t have anything to do with it, except he had it skinned. JS: Yeah. RF: But you know funny thing, or funny and also if you went to the PX when we were in QRF, picked up a few things I don’t know what we bought it doesn't matter. Get to the checkout line and of course these people that were stationed at the, at An Khê, they'd get out of line because we smelled bad, we looked bad, we acted bad, we had a rifle, and ammunition on us they got out of line and let us go, pretty cool. (1:06.01) JS: Well I had been asking about time, actually just for frame, we're not necessarily done with the field time yet. RF: Okay. �JS: But you're getting there because at the end of January the Tet Offensive starts and both before and after that the division does move, but so basically though to get a back, so basically how long were you working out of on An Khê before you went anywhere else? RF: Okay that well first I got called out of the field in December. JS: Okay. RF: And that- that happened well I got to go back, I mentioned Sergeant Bacon, first sergeant good guy. After you, a new guy had been in the company for a week or ten days at lunchtime he'd come and sit by you and just say, “hey let's talk.” And so, he wanted to know you know where you're from, you know would did you do before you got, were you drafted? Did you in enlist? Just wanted to get to know a nice- nice thing to do. Makes you feel a little more part of the unit and so I don't know I told him what my past a little bit and didn’t think much of it. Well we were again we got called out of the field and we were now guarding bridges between An Khê and Pleiku again this you know maybe a week, less than a week but a few days of rest and so we were guarding this little bridge and one, and the truck was from An Khê would come out in the morning and drop off food and ammunition, go to the next bridge, the next bridge, and finally come back pick up the chow containers and one morning they said, “Faber get your gear together you got to go back to An Khê,” and I'm thinking maybe one of my parents died or something I got to go maybe I gotta go home something bad happened. So, the truck left I ate, got all my stuff together, truck came back it stopped, I threw my stuff on the truck, get on a truck with these guys, we get back to An Khê and they said, “you got to report to the orderly room.” Okay so I went in there and the First Sergeant- Sergeant Lewis said to me, “you got a journalism degree?” “No, I don't.” I think, oh shucks man I'm back out in the field, when’s that truck leaving? He says, “can you type?” I said, “oh yeah I can type,” and well I had typing in high school we didn't �have computers, but I could type. All ten fingers, and not real fast but I could type, and my nature is to do it right, do it slow enough but do it right. So, he said, “okay, you can be S1 clerk.” So that's how that happened I ended up taking the guy's place and he was gonna go back home and so that- that's how that happened and then I thought you know that all stems from that conversation with Sergeant Bacon. You know he put in a word that when they had a job like that, I got this guy Faber, I want you to talk to him. I really think so, unfortunately, he was a casualty and never got to talk to him again, never got to thank him. I don't remember if he was killed or if he was wounded but I never saw him. JS: Okay… RF: And that happened about a week before Christmas of ‘67. JS: Okay now back at the time in- in the field you talked about you know being at an ambush duty and this kind of thing and in these camps at night, did you ever have contact, did enemy attack you or did you spring an ambush? (1:09.32) RF: Not an ambush, not an ambush in the dark, that but that brings up another memory when we loaded our- our magazines, or clips as we called them with- with more rounds we put in two regular rounds and a tracer, two regular and a tracer, and a tracer of course you could see this orange glow. You could see that in a daytime but at night you can really- really showed up. Didn't have an ambush activity that was really pretty rare because the Vietnamese wanted to keep their head down too. So, that was, we would get ambushed during the day, but they knew where they were and they know where to run, we- we never did so we didn't set up an ambush during the day. If we made contact, it was because we walked into something or we- we were walking towards a village and we got some- some gunfire from a village. But not at night. �JS: Okay so, when you had contact and you're out on patrol and so forth would it be just a couple of shots quick or more organized thing? (1:10.35) RF: It was more than just a sniper. There was, we and that varied but once in a while it’d just be a sniper, but it was more organized than that. They had a little plan it was almost like a mini, if it was by a village they had a- they had a purpose and there again I don't know why we did this, but we would often burn a lot of things in that village and I thought no wonder these people hate us. Why are we doing, this is not a way to make friends you burn their hooch down for what? Just because you think there's some ammo in there. Won’t talk too much about that, I'll talk about one time I wasn't pulling point I was third guy that day, so I probably pulled point the day before but we're rolling up an incline and all of a sudden, the point man started shooting rounds off. Well the two of us behind us, one went a little to the left, I went a little bit to the right, and we kept going up carefully. There was a bunker and he saw a; he’s telling us what happened he saw a rifle sticking out of the bunker and it was in the ground bunker with a cover on it. And then the guy he could even see the guy behind the rifle, so he shot. There again for some, we were told that our orders were not to fire unless we were fired at. Well who come up with this idea, you know you can't do that. Why, nobody, I mean come on you sent me over here but don't tell me when I can shoot. So, anyway he- he shot the guy and he probably slid down into the bunker a little bit but then another guy came out and ran around and I saw this, he started running around and all three of us shot didn't see a weapon, didn't care. We knew we were in bad shape here, and that guy got hit in the knee or in the leg but put him down and that was I think the point man threw a concussion grenade down in the bunker and that'll take, get anybody else out of there and by that time the rest of the company is coming and platoons coming up. Building a big perimeter �and the- the medic is there and the lieutenant and the first sergeant wanting to know what happened. You know you got a reporter or at least a verbal reporter maybe he filled out a paper, an incident report. So, the guy that was pulling point was with, telling him and I'm sitting there too, and the medic is working on this, wrapping this guy’s knee up. Machine gunner off to the side, his machine gun, he was gonna shoot, that's right, he was gonna shoot some rounds down in this bunker and his machine gun, m60 jammed. So, he goes out on the perimeter and he monkeys with it gets it unjammed and all of a sudden this burst of m60 rounds. Yeah we all were startled by that but this poor Vietnamese died and he had this wound in his leg, he didn't die of the wound I think he died of fear but he got, he can understand here's all these big Americans talking a foreign language you got some guy messing with your leg, you don't know what he's doing to it. Anyway, not good- not good. (1:14.17) JS: Okay and how common was it to actually have a firefight during that period when you were in the field? How often would those happen? RF: Well sometimes you might go a week without and other times it would be once or twice a week. They- they sent us you know they must have had information, but we made contact when the Vietnamese wanted us to. JS: Right. RF: You know they when they thought they could cause more trouble than we could they wouldthey would- they would cause the contact because they knew how to get away, we didn't- we didn’t. JS: Yeah, I mean was there, were you aware of any effort to do things like count bodies or count enemy casualties after these events? �RF: Well we recorded we saw and that- that was, and the word was you count killed and wounded. But for every KIA we, the army assumed two WIA’s. In the documentary and in the books, I read about it later I don't watch movies about Vietnam, never. Well I watched Forrest Gump but that was humorous too but otherwise I don't- I don’t watch any of these Good Morning America or anything. But later I found out these numbers were padded, just terribly and the documentary it was incredible, was gross, some said, somebody along the chain of command says, “this isn't believable, we don't care, we don't care, somebody will believe it.” Well yeah, we did we, I’m sure that the lieutenant the company commander actually it was always the lieutenant I think company commander was supposed to be a captain. (1:16.02) JS: Normally sometimes the first lieutenant would do that, you have a lieutenant being a platoon leader yeah. RF: Yeah, yeah but we didn’t have any captains out there we just didn’t, they didn’t have enough evidently. JS: Right. RF: So, maybe a first lieutenant but whoever company commander was filled out some report whether it was probably by radio. I mean what we didn’t have paper out there in the wood you know, I don’t know. JS: Yeah. RF: But probably by radio said, “we made contact this is what we see,” and somebody in the back- back at An Khê was making up the numbers. JS: Are there are other things you want to put in the story about time in the field before we kind of switch over to your…? �(1:16.40) RF: Yeah, I was just thinking about that and my birthday is November 5 and I got moved to Vietnam in October so shortly in the field my birthday comes along. My wife is always diligent about sending letters and I to her and I got a lot of mail, more than most. On November 5, on my birthday, on, she would send a package about every two weeks; I get a package on my birthday with birthday cake in it. A little bit miss shaped because it gets banged around, but we got to go on ambush and she sent this cake and a can of frosting just to put on it but we gotta go on ambush, oh gather around guys cause we’ve got to eat this cake in a hurry so we smeared this frosting on this cake with the bayonet and she had sent some forks and whacked this thing up and gobbled it down. It came on my birthday. JS: Wow. RF: Yeah really something and we went on an ambush. JS: Alright and kind of get in December now you’re coming back and now you’ve got a job basically- basically a headquarters clerk? RF: Yeah in the orderly room and the orderly room Sergeant Lewis was the first sergeant. They had a clerk for each company and then the adjutant, which was Captain Holbeeke and then myself, S1 clerk I was not, I was now in headquarters company and I was S1 clerk for the battalion. (1:18.22) JS: Now what does S1 clerk mean? RF: Okay S1, I didn’t know when I got the job. I didn’t dare ask the first sergeant I just, he said, “go see so-and-so.” So, I did, and I said, “hey I guess I’m your replacement.” He says, “oh,” he says, “I’m leaving in a week.” I said “okay, what is S1?” He says, “personnel records.” So, “oh �what’s that, I mean what’s that all about?” He says, “well I put in orders for promotion for different awards. I order forms that I use, I gotta order some of them here locally at An Khê the Division Headquarters and some of them I have to send back to Washington depending on it’s a DD Form or Department of Army form I don’t remember which I had to send where. But, oh and another thing he had to do, or I had to do is sympathy letters for, to next of kin for anybody killed in the battalion. The sympathy letter, yeah you had to, there was some things that you always had to say. It had to be typed and without errors, boy that’s hard. And a manual typewriter but at least I’m in a building now, but it was hard typing these things perfectly. I mean you know, my wife here to type would be lots better but I’m doing my best. And if you make a mistake you just start over, no copy machine, carbon paper, and you- you try to write like massive shrapnel wounds or gunshot wound. And quite often I would get a letter back, I didn’t sign it, but the adjutant signed it on the behalf of the battalion. We’d get a letter back saying that the people would like to know where, more detail about the wounds, and the accident because usually people were not allowed to have open casket. You know we didn’t have refrigeration. (1:20.41) JS: Yeah. RF: Obviously and I- I had written something like massive shrapnel wounds. What are you gonna say if a guy got hit by a rocket, you know we got pieces? It was hard, I know that, I can understand as a grandparent now that yeah you want to, and I didn’t always know where. I mean they wanted to know at what intersection, or at what stream, or what bridge. I didn’t know andand I didn’t make stuff up, but it was hard to respond. I always, that was almost as… harder than writing the initial letter because you tried to respond and still you weren’t able to be. Then there’s just some things you can’t, I couldn’t write. But that was a big part of the job. Also when �we took casualties my job was to go down to the, well this, after we left An Khê when we got up to Utah Beach and specifically at LZ Jane I still had the same job but now it’s not a building anymore it’s a tent and but part of my job was when at LZ Jane when they took casualties in the battalion I had to go to the first-aid station and take notes of the diagnosis and prognosis that the doctor saw. And jot some things down that could be a little bit helpful if the man died later. And that was just part of the job too, and then not no- no, not nice, not nice. JS: Okay alright now on the base itself at An Khê, I mean how long did you stay there before you moved? (1:22.28) RF: Okay I don’t know it says is my journal, I don’t think I know exactly when we move. We move from one place on the, on An Khê to another building and cramped us down but we still had a desk in the building and we slept in the back part of that building in Quonset huts.. At some point I- I, there, I might have a record of when they, we moved, our battalion moved from An Khê to Utah Beach just some beach on the gulf of Tonkin. North- north of De Nang, well not as far north this Huế but in that direction. And that was kind of nice I, first experience with, do you want to hear about this now? At Utah Beach I’m still doing the same job only now our bunkers are above ground cause it’s all sand, so they built sandbag bunkers with the cover. Pretty nice and I thought, you know I surely don’t get to shower and bathe enough and went and I’ll get in this water I grabbed a bar of soap, I’m gonna go take a bath. I found out that you soap doesn’t work in saltwater it just turns like a piece of rubber. That didn’t work so now I get out of the water and I covered with salt, this is almost worse than dirt but I learned you know, I was, I’m from West Michigan, big lake that’s nice, I could take a bath in Lake Michigan and it’d work out great but not there, not in the saltwater but I learned. We weren’t there very long, but Sergeant �Lewis could, he knew what was gonna happen and somehow, he found a way to get re, get orders to rotate out of Vietnam, go back to Germany where his wife lived. He was still in the army, but he was married to this German gal. He was E-7 so I mean we never saw him again. He and the next thing we knew we’re going to LZ Jane which is about straight west of what was Utah Beach. Things didn’t get better. (1:24.41) JS: Okay now is this all before the Tet Offensive began? RF: No- no Tet was way back at An Khê. JS: Okay you were still An Khê when Tet starts? RF: I was at An Khê at Tet Offensive. JS: Okay so talk about that, when that happens does anything affect your unit directly or? RF: It did a little bit. In our typical army, An Khê had a, it was a big base and it had the ring road and along the ring road where these guard towers and they barbed wire and lights and all this. But they had, I had to go up, all of us did, take turns going up not all the way to the perimeter but somewhat back from the perimeter in some makeshift shelter and we were supposed to be on alert that if somebody, something breached that perimeter we would be ready that- that affected it yeah. But not, we had some mortaring during the at night either early in the, early let’s say six/ seven o’clock in the morning or at nine/ ten o’clock at night, but again it was a big base and they, I think they were really going after the fuel depot and that was not near where I was. So, it didn’t- didn’t, wasn’t a problem. (1:26.04) JS: Okay so the start of the Tet Offensive doesn’t affect you particularly, it happens. RF: Yeah. �JS: Were you getting news or were you aware of stuff going on or were you just? RF: Oh yeah, we- we knew how serious it was because we had units that were up near Hué and they were taking casualties, so we knew what was going on. And we- we heard, see we were quite a ways North, Saigon we didn’t know what was going on in Saigon, that was the least of our worries. We didn’t really care, well we got our own problems, not gonna care about Westmoreland man I, worry about him, he’ll take care of himself. We’ll take care of our self, leave us alone, we’ll be okay. So, we were quite far north and but An Khê, we did not have a major attack at Camp Radcliffe yeah more during peapod. Peapod [?], oh that’s terrible, yeah that’s not so bad. JS: Okay alright and the division was in the process of moving north in part to provide more support for Khe Sanh and other things that were also going on during that period. RF: Yes, further north. JS: But- but the division is in the process of moving when the Tet Offensive begins at the end of January and then after that your battalion then makes that move up. RF: To, yeah to Utah Beach. JS: To Utah Beach and now then you go to LZ Jane. RF: Yeah. JS: And is that where you spent now an extended period of time? (1:27.30) RF: Yes- yes, I think maybe in my journal is I’ve- I’ve tried to nail down dates and I can’t recall them now, but I spent a long time at LZ Jane. It was a not real big, it was our brigade JS: Okay. �RF: And so, our battalion headquarters were there but the other battalions were also on this LZ. There was a large artillery brigade or whatever they call them, there’s a large gun right by us an 8-inch diameter job. They kept water in there, sloshed around to get this thing anchored in the mud and jump off the ground, kinda noisy. When he fired at night the whole roof of our bunker would go whoop like that just from the concussion and we all, and sometimes you hear a short round, bzzzz, oh boy, hope it makes it. My job was pretty much the same, getting more difficult because now I had this little field desk that collapses in a tent. Holes all through this tent just full of mortars or shrapnel holes and had this old Gestetner that I had to crank out paperwork on. Poor old typewriter with chips in it from shrapnel and the Gestetner. JS: What’s a Gestetner? RF: What, oh my, a Gestetner is this thing that, don't you remember, you don't remember these things… JS: Well… RF: Cranked and they had black ink on a drum, and you had a stencil that you had to cut and you laid that stencil on the drum and there was ink in this thing and you- and you could automatic. (1:29.17) JS: Generate multiple copies is sort of the… RF: Yes, that's what we did orders on and so that- that was my job. I had a Gestetner and if a company clerk needed something done I did it on the stencil. I was the only one that was cutting stencils on my typewriter and, but the old Gestetner I don't know what happened but it wouldn't feed ink and so I had to take a tube of ink put it on some toilet paper and rub it on the drum, and then lay the stencil on it and kind of press that in so that the ink could start coming up through the- the cuts on the stencil and crank it out and hope you had enough ink to get enough copies �that you needed I, this- this is making a lot of work you know. No, but you had a good time, you know I showed you the picture of the guy cutting hair there and we one we had a steak fry. Somebody I don't know who, but we all chipped in and he went to a Utah Beach area again on the Jeep and bought from the wet so we bought it, we bought it with MPC, military payment certificate because that's what the army used to try to keep US money out of, and they'd switch the series of MPC periodically and then all the old series was worthless and poor Vietnamese got stuck with, they really wanted regular currency, US currency but we, I didn't have any because you just got paid in MPC and that's what you had. But it was curious we bought it from the Vietnamese girls called them Coke girls. Yeah at LZ Jane life was just it was I could sleep in that bunker, you know and then I'll tell you about that storm for the record here, you saw the pictures but living in a bunker that was two, room for two cots and maybe about three feet additional in length so it's probably ten feet long and a cot. And I had a piece of plywood on the floor, and then the other cot, I lived there mostly by myself. And one night I woke up, and of course this bunker is built on kind of a hill, and I can hear water running and what in the world what a rain. Well the waters almost to the bottom of the cot, and so I got to get out of here. Well what was happening is water running down inside of this hill got between couple sandbags, just like a faucet running, just pouring in the bunker. So, I gotta get out of this bunker. Pick my rifle laying on the floor and ammo bag, pick those things up, slip my boots on they’re in the water, climb out of the bunker but by this time I'm deciding I’m gonna go to the chapel tent because they had a wooden floor in there and at least I can get out of this mud and dark, but I know where that tent is. Get in there and of course I can hear guys talking, the cooks are in there making coffee in these big kettles, they just put water and coffee grounds right in there and let it boil and that's but it's pretty good. Especially when you're cold and wet so I spent the night there I don't know we're �just talking. And next day is just everything is mud and I got to try and get this typewriter going again and the Gestetner and I get my desk in mud, and life is getting bad. And I- I don't well I gotta get a few things out of that bunker yet too, I had some shirts that I had sent to- to the little village outside of LZ Jane to get laundered and they had been all nicely folded they're laying on the floor down there so I go down to get it and the water is up to my groin in right as you get down in the hole. Whew, so, I can't live in there I build a hooch on top of the bunker two poncho or three ponchos I got, I don't know where I found these tents poles but I, hey everybody man for himself so I- I didn’t tear anybody else's hooch down but I found some tent poles and somesome ponchos so build a hooch. Even with one end, I had a litter, I don't know where I found the litter with an air mattress, I put that in there and that's where I slept. But by this time I'm only about six weeks from going home so I thought, I can’t, that I'll never get back in that bunker and by this time they're starting to- to prepare another base camp called Camp Evans as I recall and I never got there but so that's the timeframe. So, it must have been September, late September we had this storm and I make a place to live on top, at least sleep. And I can remember guys saying, “Faber if I was as short as you are, I would not sleep on that bunker.” I said, “if you were here as long as I've been here and if we get mortared, I guarantee you I hear that mortar leave the tube. I can be in the bunker before the mortar hits the ground, I guarantee it.” Because you're so in tune I knew when we were getting mortared before the mortars hit because you get the whooshwhoosh and so I knew what that was and I, I'm sure that it didn't happen. Then I got a replacement I think his last name was Lee, nice guy I don't know where he, he was like I was someday hauled him out of the field to take my job and when I was gonna go back. And another interesting thing I took a leave and went to Okinawa for a week I had, oh I had been to R&R, I had gone to Hawaii and met my wife for a week and that was in June. Where was I before I went �there, was I LZ Jane? Yeah I was at LZ Jane then already in June because I had a hopscotch all the way back to Cam Ranh Bay to go to Hawaii and back from Hawaii, go back to Cam Ranh Bay and hopscotch just, you just stand in, go to an airstrip and say where am I gonna go and I give me a plane or let me know when a planes going I'll get on, and that's how you traveled. Finally, a chopper, I got to be back to LZ Jane from Da Nang or something. Okay, this chopper’s going to there. Anyway, so last couple of weeks get really short and I decide some reason I can't believe I did this, I'll go to Okinawa for a week and that company clerk, of course we had been, I don't remember names of these guys but he says, “oh I won't even take you off the morning report, so as far as, you're not gonna, it's not gonna record this as leave, I just leave you on the morning report but you come back.” “Don't worry,” I said I'm so short I got to get back here to get go home and what otherwise I can't go home without orders, so he knew that. So, I hopscotch down to An Khê totally illegal get to the airstrip at An Khê there's three or four guys that are, we're all gonna go, now there’s three or four of us from other areas they're gonna go to An Khê. I don't know if they were going legally or not but we- we get from An Khê down to Cam Ranh Bay and we fly on a C-131, what they called weight available because they were flying jet engines and other equipment on that needed to be repaired to Okinawa. So, we get to Okinawa and I spend a week that was, eh that was okay, it wasn't Vietnam, so it was good. Don't remember much of it. (1:38.28) JS: Didn’t you need orders to be able to get on these flights or did you just walk up and. RF: I didn’t, I just said I got to go- to go to Okinawa, I didn't have orders that was the idea, you know I just was going, and I guess I looked like I was, know what I was doing. And I was what I'm- I'm looking like I was in the infantry I'm up from LZ Jane I'm doing… this guy's, you don't �want to mess with him too much because he says he's going to Okinawa you let him go. So, I went to Okinawa been, stayed there for about a week and so okay, time to go back to Vietnam. Go back to the airport to the airstrip there I don't remember, the air force base, I guess. Okay I gotta go to Vietnam I didn’t have any orders, well you got to wait till you’s got room on a plane, weight wise. It took a day or so I'm starting, now I’m starting to get nervous because I got to get back to Vietnam, get orders to leave, but I did, I finally, and oh I’d ride on these C-131s, there's no sound insulation it's just sheet metal and boy the noise be get off you for hours you can hardly hear anything. Get back to Vietnam, here I am at Cam Ranh Bay again I got to hopscotch again no orders just tell him I got to get here. Get back, finally get back to LZ Jane just a couple days before I get my orders to come home. (1:40.00) JS: Okay now during the time when you're- you’re up there, up- up north I mean your division is involved in a lot of different action, they're part of supporting the recapture of Huế and this kind of thing and then eventually the division or a large chunk of it goes out to Khe Sanh and- and then eventually into the A Shau Valley after that. Now do you stay on Jane the whole time? RF: I was. JS: And so, the battalion still has its rear area there and then they're going out but you're staying on the base? RF: The yeah, the brigade was operated a little like An Khê did originally and they had- they had these rifle companies that Alpha Company, Bravo, Charlie, Delta they're all out there, but we use choppers. You can't believe the chopper traffic and that's how people came and went, the chaplain go out on a chopper, it's just constantly choppers. But I was, that was the last place I �really was at LZ Jane and the brigade, the brigade was there I don't know about other brigades I think they must have been in other places but the 5th brigade or 5th Cav… JS: Yeah. RF: …was that level. The 5th Cav was there at LZ Jane and then the battalions, along with the battalions, and the- and the artillery unit. We were, must have been fairly close to the DMZ because as I recall these artillery guys said, “yeah, they could fire into North Vietnam with that evenings gun.” JS: Yeah, yeah there were, those were up actually so you're- you’re actually at that point you're north of way Huế. RF: Oh yeah. (1:41.49) JS: And between Huế and Quang Tri basically. RF: Yeah and Khe Sanh was a little bit more. JS: That’s inland. RF: Inland. Further west. JS: Yeah north and west yeah, but you weren't going out to those points? RF: No, no because my job was S1 you know I- I had my, I shouldn't say my hands full but that was a full-time job. Take between casualty letters and orders to go on R… that was my job assign guys to go on R&R and where there were gonna go and so in a way they'd like to treat me kind of nice. And but we had to teach the new guys, we had a lieutenant that showed up one day just green and he walked in there at ten. I'm sitting right near where the entrance is, and the other clerks are in there. I don't remember where Lieutenant Curl spent his time, the adjutant. This officer walks in green as grass. I'm right by the door and he says, “soldier I'm an officer, why �don't you call these guys to attention?” I says, “we don't do that here, we don't do it, and we don't salute anything lower than a major. This is just the way it is; this is Vietnam.” Our attitude’s what you're gonna do? Send me to Vietnam? You know this- this is different this is not the real world. This is- this is a different world, and they'd learned, these officers learned that you don'tdon't mess around with these enlisted guys because they're kind of ornery, they don't want to be here and just leave them alone. JS: Okay, now did you have a commanding officer that you reported to most of the time while you were at the S1? (1:43.31) RF: Well… JS: Who where you working with? RF: Lieutenant Curl by that time Holbeeke is long gone, Captain Holbeeke, and now we got Lieutenant Curl and he’s the adjutant general or adjutant whatever… JS: Yeah. RF: …of our battalion. He was my “supervisor” but he- he didn't bother me you know he, I guess he knew me attitude. And I'd been doing this longer than he had, this adjutant paperwork so I wasn't a, that was okay. His biggest problem was he was one night sleeping in his bunker and a rat bit his toe and he had to have rabies shots, boy not good. I didn't know rats would bite I just thought we had rats and almost every morning when it was, my rifle laying on the floor on that piece of plywood in the morning there I could see the rat tracks on the stock, that black plastic stock, the stock of an M16, rat tracks. And sometimes when I would be going, falling asleep and I can hear them running around the top of the bunker on those- those sandbags but I didn't worry about them, I thought eh they- they ain’t gonna- ain’t gonna hurt me. But once Lieutenant Curl �got bit, I found out that rabid, if rats- if rats have, are rabid they will bite to unprovoked because he was sleeping, dumb rat bit his big toe. So, he had to have shots. JS: Alright I'm gonna ask some kind of standard sort of Vietnam stereotype questions. RF: Yeah. (1:45.04) JS: One of the assumptions that people made is that there was a lot of drug use in Vietnam, did you see any of that? RF: Oh yeah marijuana I don't think, I don't know about other, I don't know anything about other drugs but yeah. And even at the at LZ Jane because if you walked around a little bit after. I didn't do it, I didn't touch it ever, but if I walked around a little bit in the evening you know nice evening walk around you could smell it coming out of some bunkers. It- it was around I don't, I didn't never touched it, never have. JS: Did guys in, out in the field use it at all? Or would they only use it in camp? RF: Not more than once. There's maybe once, we couldn't have it, in the field you couldn't put up with it and that's why they ended up back in the base camp and they would be helping the cook you know they- they would run errands. I mean you couldn't, they weren't gonna go home but they would get, we had outhouses at LZ Jane we did at An Khê too. We didn’t have a flush toilet so had these outhouses and the one close to our battalion, really close to the S1 tent had three holes in it and- and the backs behind it that was low that was- that was below the seats was open and they would have cut off 55-gallon drums about this deep and every day they would push a new one under there and so some of these guys that couldn't hack it in the field whether of pet, being petrified or- or smoking marijuana because we didn't put up with them in the field. Send back and do something with them. They would have to pull these things out and burn that. I don't �know if they used diesel fuel or kerosene, probably diesel fuel and burn that and put a clean one or an empty one back in. That's a job they had. JS: Yeah. RF: But they were happy but anyways… (1:47.12) JS: Yeah, they weren’t in the field. Alright so and then another issue is one of race relations, did you notice anything? RF: No in fact one of the company clerks, I think of Delta Company I think that's what D was in Delta, was a nice guy a black guy, very good worker did his job he was E-5. Nice guy, I wouldn't, these, the guys that just ended up cleaning out the John's, the outhouses, and the cooks; there was a mix of races. It wasn't a matter of what race you were to what you did it was because you couldn't do, be in the infantry, you couldn’t, well you couldn't be in the field and so that had but it had nothing to do with race. It had nothing to do with promotions, if you had spent enough time in grade and did your job you got promoted. Had nothing to do, I didn't even know what race some of these guys were by the time, you know I had in processed them when- when I talked to them about going on R&R about so-and-so on such-and-such. I didn't remember what race they were when it came to promotion time but I looked at how long they had been in and their company clerk said these guys have been in long enough and so I would put in for orders. I didn’t care, I didn’t think the army did. The S3 officer at LZ Jane was a black major, highestranking guy in the battalion but he was- he was intelligence officer. Nice guy didn’t… well of course he had the rank. JS: Yeah. RF: But that was, it wasn't that, he come in sit down and talk to us, you know, nice guy. �(1:49.17) JS: Now you were there when Martin Luther King was assassinated. RF: Yes, and Bobby Kennedy. JS: And but the King assassination have any ripple effects, or you hear anything about that? RF: I know that we were aware of it, we had stars and stripes of course when we- we knew of- of the, I'm sure I knew what things, well I learned from letters from home about Detroit and even in Grand Rapids. JS: Yep. RF: This was all going on, but I didn't worry about what was going on in Grand Rapids and Detroit. It was the least of my problems and I think we were too busy trying to keep our fanny down to- to create any racial, I didn't, I there might have been racial issues if you get to Saigon, and you know where life was different. I know it was Vietnam, but we were in an area where we had to depend on each other and I didn’t care if it, if he was black or Asian or whatever if, if he was on my side, he was a good guy. JS: Yeah. (1:50.28) RF: And I think they felt the same way about me of course I grew up on Black Hills we get back to that and I played on a, in the 50s when Jackie Robinson broke into the big league I was playing on a American Legion team 13- 14 year old’s where two of us were white and the rest of boys are black. Then at the same time our coach was Mr. James, he was black he invited two of us that had played in Little League that he felt were pretty good ball players to play on his American Legion team. We didn't call him coach, we didn't call him Doyle James, he was Mr. �James- Mr. James. I give my parents all the credit in the world, I had no idea that they- they said fine you play- play with Mr. James. We practiced at an old cinder field down on- on Rumsey and Godfrey. Terrible ball field, but it had a backstop. Hot! We'd practice and oh let's pool our money and somebody can go up the hill to the little grocery store and buy a bottle of pop, bring it back down, pull the cap off on a, on part of the chain-link fence burr on there and we shared it, passed it around. They, I didn't think of these ball players as black, I thought of them as ball, friends that played ball and I think they thought the same way about me. That's where I came from, so racial issue was not an issue for me in the army. I treated them as my friends, we’re in this together and I think I never felt like they looked at me differently I think it's because the way I treated them, I think. It- it- it's just never crossed my mind that we got racial issue here. I can't remember, I thought it was the other name of this Sergeant Delta Company clerk Fulton, Fuller? I don't remember, something like that, we hung out together you know is, we were friends. (1:52.41) JS: Sure. RF: Not close friends but we did this is, this was our life and we had it, we might as well share it. JS: At a place like LZ Jane, a relatively small base did you have any Vietnamese who would work on the base or they, ones living immediately outside? RF: No, no, they were, there was a little village outside and like I said I- I could get my shirts laundered and fatigues launder, you never got your own back, you just sent in some two shirts and you'd get two shirts. They were would, nothing- nothing personal about it but they did laundry. That was done, and I think that's what supported that village. I don't remember what we paid I'm sure I paid something, but we didn't have any Vietnamese on LZ Jane, we did it at- at An Khê, we had them they cleaned up, picked up trash I don't know what they did. I had nothing �really firsthand to do with them, but they were around, they weren't in the building, but they were out in the I don't know what they did, I know they picked up trash. JS: Yeah, at An Khê at least at some point while the CAV was there, there was also basically the house of prostitution on the villas immediately outside. RF: Yep that was part of An- part of An Khê ones like- like there was the main road from An Khê to Pleiku and then there was a little side, they didn’t call it a street but that was a red-light district that was there. JS: And then was there anything like that near Jane or was Jane too small? RF: Too small, the village there I don't- I don't- I don't I just pretty much stayed on that base I had no reason to go anywhere. JS: When you did the laundry did you just swap at the gate or something like that or through the wire or would you go into the village to do that. (1:54.40) RF: I- I didn't even do it, I just gave it probably to our supply guy and he'd have a whole bag of shirts and- and fatigue pants bring the whole business down and probably came back with some clean clothes and then if you turn, gave him two shirt- shirts you said, “hey I gave you two shirts.” “Okay here's two clean ones.” And I suppose we paid, but I never went into- into the village I- I could have I mean we had Jeeps sitting there. I could jump on a Jeep and go but I, why should I do that? This supply guy, that's his job. JS: Alright, okay so are there other particular incidents or memories that stand out for your time at Vietnam that you haven't brought into the story yet? RF: Well R&R I talked briefly about it, that was wonderful that was the Army did. My wife flew through military standby from Los Angeles to Honolulu so that was very inexpensive flight fair. �She had to pay regular tourist to- to Los Angeles, but it was a wonderful week. They, we were treated really nice to the- the community that we got a pocket, packet of coupons, we got a discount for rent a car, and a discount for various restaurants, and entertainment things. We went to a, the comedian that just got in big trouble, Bill Cosby, a Bill Cosby Show live there. Yeah that was a high point no question about it of my… (1:56.30) JS: Yeah, I'm sure. RF: And because I don't remember much about, I got pictures of Okinawa, but it was just to get out of Vietnam. I wanted to get out and then trying to get back in wasn't quite as easy as, I mean it was easy except I had to wait a day for, get a plane, otherwise it was easy, and nobody asked me questions. I just, said I had, just what I got to do. JS: Well I suppose someone saying he has to go to Vietnam wasn't gonna get a lot of argument. RF: No- no but leaving too I- I don't remember having any trouble I just went to the airstrip in An Khê because they were still flying out of An Khê at that, in June or no in October I guess I got somehow got to An Khê. I got to go to Cam Ranh Bay, okay this plane’s going to An Khê. It wasn't an airport it was an airstrip with a building, and you told the guy where you wanted to go. Okay he didn't care. (1:57.33) JS: Yep, not his job. Alright so now you, when do you get back to the states? When does your tour end? RF: That was in October of- of ‘67 of course. JS: Well ‘68 now, you went over in ’67, came back in ’68. �RF: Yeah, in ’68, October ’68. That was interesting of course then I had orders, so I- I didn't have to be so brazen I, cuz I always had paperwork. And processed, got down legally, down to Cam Ranh Bay again, to the out-processing center with my paperwork and they really had things organized there again. They- they treated you nice and okay your everything's in order maybe you got a… oh I got paid. I, they had been holding out a lot of money and they paid me cash. So, I had a pocket full of money and orders in certain your assigned such and such a flight that's such a such a time so be here and get on a bus and you go. It was on a Saturday before, no it was on a Saturday, we got off the ground at Cam Ranh Bay at 7:30 on a Saturday night. We got, that plane left the ground we clapped, stood up, clapped, we're all packed in again commercial flight but three seats on each side of a tiny little aisle. They had flight attendants that gave us a box of food. We made a, but it was, everybody was happy nobody was complaining but in cramped quarters. We stopped in Japan to refuel again, can't get off the plane these guys are, you can't trust them, I guess. And no, but I don't care, fill up, get the fuel in this thing and we're ready to go again nono muss no trouble. One stop in Japan, I thought we were gonna, I think we were led to believe, and I thought we were gonna have to stop in Alaska, but they didn't they went directly to Fort Lewis, Washington. We landed in Fort Lewis, Washington Saturday night course you got this dateline thing so you same day twice. (1:59.48) JS: Right. RF: Opposite going that way, so we landed Fort or McChord Air Force base on, we left on Saturday night 7:30 we landed there at 7 o'clock Saturday night, half hour before we left so, I know it's a 23 and a half hours, wouldn't stop for fuel Japan. We're getting treated nicer and nicer still in these grubby old clothes but bus us into Fort Lewis, walk into a processing center. First �thing they do is measure us for a dress Green's, gotta do more paperwork of course, they gotta tell us that we're still in the Army and how we supposed to behave and we've got a 30-day leave and my orders now are cut to go to Fort Polk. Oh yeah, this reminds me when you, before you left Vietnam a month or two beforehand you could fill out a slip to say where you'd like to be stationed if, because I came back with more than 90 or 100 days so I had to serve my time. JS: Yeah. RF: You could write down, so I put down Fort DeRussy, Hawaii was my first choice I liked that because I was in Hawaii it was a nice place. Second choice Fort Carson, Colorado never been there but I thought it sounds like it’d probably be nice. And Fort Dix, New Jersey cause it's out east and we’d probably get to see a little bit around Washington, D.C. and Philadelphia, that's cool I like history. Get my orders Fort Polk, Louisiana. Now still I'm not gonna complain I know all about Fort Polk but now my MOS, I'm an E-5 been an E-5 for more than, well I wasn't in the army a year and I had made E-5. Make rank like crazy in Vietnam and so I'm an E-5 and I'm I- I had my MOS change from Eleven Bravo to 71 Bravo because I thought if this clerk- clerk’s job doesn't work out I don't want to go back out in the field if I can help it. So, I changed my MOS but secondary MOS is still Eleven Bravo but primary is 71 Bravo clerk. (2:02.00) JS: Okay clerk. RF: Clerk Typist. So, anyway we're at Fort Lewis, Washington they treat us really nice do this paperwork of course I got orders they, and then they give me some money to travel from Fort Lewis to Fort Polk, but I got a 30-day leave. I don't have to report for 30 days so you're on your own. By that time the dress greens were all ready, patches on them, nice and spruced up, new shoes, new hat, everything’s really looking sharp. And you can stay for a steak dinner, I don't �want a steak dinner, I want to get out of here, I'm going home. I don't know how many guys stayed, we get out the door and there's a whole line of taxicabs and the first guy pulls up a little bit, the first five guys out the door get in that one, the next five get out the next one, they all know you're gonna go to the airport. Or maybe the guy said “we're going to the airport,” “yep that's where I want to go,” so you and then he probably said, “five bucks a head,” or whatever, I don't know what we all paid, five bucks or whatever the amount was. Brings us the Seattle Tacoma Airport and timing was perfect I go in I think well United I know about they fly into O'Hare pretty regularly. I went up to O'Hare counter the guy says… “I want to go to Chicago.” He says, “okay it'd be 94 buck’s military standby, but you got to run.” All I got is this satchel, he says, “gate such-and-such.” Took my money, gave me a ticket, he says, “go this way, turn this way, and it's gate such-and-such and they're ready to leave so you got to run.” That's okay pick up my satchel, ticket, run, and made it. So, we fly, I didn't have a chance to call home they didn’t know where I am for all, they don't know if I'm in Vietnam, they don't know if I'm dead or alive literally. Because going to Okinawa my wife got concerned, she didn’t get any mail, there was a chopper crash that neared Da Nang and the guys were on their way home so she's nervous. I didn't know anything about that I didn't have time to call from Seattle, run to get the airplaneplane, fly to Chicago, march up to the United counter, and by this time it's probably three in the morning or so that guessing. I wanted to go to Grand Rapids, “okay the next flight is like 7:00 or 7:30 in the morning.” “That's okay I can wait, how much?” He says, “34 bucks.” I said, “34 bucks? I want to go military standby isn’t there room?” He says, “I can't tell you.” Oh hmm, well probably there’s room but he's not gonna say I- I says, “can I buy a regular ticket?” “Yeah,” he says, “I can sell ya a not a first class but tourists.” (2:05.03) �JS: Yeah. RF: Yeah okay, coach 34 bucks. But now I can call, I get the ticket, call my wife’s, she was living with her parents while I was overseas I called that house, talk to my father-in-law and says “I'm in Chicago I got a ticket for Grand Rapids I'll be there such- such time.” My wife had; I didn't know unbeknownst to me she rented a mobile home from another; she was part of an Overseas Wives Club got to know these gals. All these guys in Vietnam their wives got together once or twice a month for dinner and to chat. Well some guy came back and he was going, had to go down to Fort Hood, Texas I guess and his wife, they had this mobile home in Cutlerville and my wife could rent it for a month because they were gonna be gone. Okay, so she did I didn't know about that, so I didn't know how to get ahold of her anyway, but I called her home talked to my father-in-law told him when I was gonna be there. Yeah everything's fine he let my wife know, my parents know, my parents let my siblings know. And this was Sunday morning, I get on that plane there's five of us. I could’ve rung that ticket agent’s neck charging me instead of 17 bucks 34. Now 34 isn't much today and it wasn't a whole lot then I had a pocket full of money because I didn't, I only collected thirty or thirty-five dollars a month in Vietnam. The rest of it they were banking for me. Heck what a- what a character, he knew there was plenty of room, the guy in Seattle charged me military standby without asking. I got a uniform on, wants to go to Chicago, what a difference. Oh man I gotta forget about it you know but you something you don't- don't forget like, yeah, he could have done better he coulda, “yeah there's plenty of room here 17 bucks,” he didn't. So, got- got to the Grand Rapids and everybody is there of course, except my mother and the story was she was, she wasn't feeling well, had cold or something. I think it was just too much emotional stress for so long, she would see me Sunday morning and she couldn't make it and that, I can understand that. Cause she was such a gracious woman and �quiet and loving, I'm sure that year was hard on her, as it was on me and she was just so thankful that her son made it home, but she didn't want to be at the airport. I- I’m, that's my story I'm thethe official story is she wasn't, she had a cold. She had a cold she could’ve, but anyway my dad was there, my brothers and their family and it was cool, yeah it was cool. That's why I started showing you that picture of that mobile home it said ‘welcome home Rog’ on it. That sign was made by one of my wife's uncles who was an artist and he quickly made that sign on Sunday morning and taped it up on that mobile home before we got there. JS: Alright so now this is still coming back and you're not done with the army yet. RF: No. I had yeah… (2:08.34) JS: You’re reacquainted and then it's, okay off to Fort Polk with you. How long did you have to serve now? RF: Well I came back in October, November 5 with my birthday that was in, I was on leave at the time and that also was election day and Richard Nixon was re-elected was… JS: Elected, first time. RF: First time, okay he was elected. I voted absentee from Vietnam I don't know, I sent it in, I assume I voted. But any way that was on my birthday but then middle of November I had orders I had to show up at Fort Polk at such- such and such an office. Which I didn’t know where it was, we got down and we went down together. Not knowing they didn't have married housing, but I drove on base to the guard post and I said who I was, I maybe I don't think he wanted to see my orders, there, don’t, wasn't worried about that stuff then. I said who I was and I have to report to a certain building I don't where it is, he gave me directions, I went in there, and the guy says, “we don't have any married housing, you can, you'll have to live off-base in Leesville or at De �Ridder,” two little towns near there. And he said, “if you go to Leesville go to the Chamber of Commerce.” It's upstairs over a shoe store or something, it was upstairs in an old building downtown- downtown Leesville. So, I did some paperwork I'm sure he said, “okay you're gonna work at this headquarters company for permanent party, be a clerk there.” Okay I don't know if I even went there, I went in, we went into Leesville tell ya, we went upstairs to the Chamber of Commerce, gal sitting behind the desk and said, “okay I'm here, I got in the army,” my wife is standing next to me. I says, “we have to, we told we got to rent some place, and you have some information, some listings.” She says, “yep.” She opened her dress- desk drawer there's a stack of three by five cards with a sign ‘white’ and on this stack ‘black.’ She hand me the white stack so we walk over to a little counter, we shuffle through them and find a few places that maybe might be interested. Write down notes, we couldn't take the cards, but we could write down some scratch paper some notes and addresses. And we headed out to this first place we visited, it was a trailer, that might be okay. Couldn't even get to the door it was sitting in a big mud puddle, didn't even get inside. Well head back we got another place closer in town. And the guy is setting out the sign in his front door, ‘for rent’ nice brick ranch house, wow that's where we want to go. Turn around, pull in the driveway talk to the guy “oh yeah,” he says, “it's the building behind the house there.” Went there, screen is hanging, screen door hanging on one hinge. He's with us, we get inside, the refrigerator door won't close, it's just one little shack of a room. Can't stay here, no thank you, back in the car. Went to the third place which was housing built by the military for officers during World War II, but they had been sold off to private party and they're now renting but of course they're renting primarily to GI’s, that’s okay. Lots of buildings, we found an apartment building available, or rent, on the end unit, a four-apartment building, old, furnished. �We rented it, so that's where we live for until May because I had to go from November now it is, middle of November to middle of May. What is that, six or seven months, whatever. JS: Okay and- and what was the actual job you were doing? (2:12.43) RF: Okay I- I, in my journal I write, I don't really remember. I know that I was, I can still see this orderly room; first sergeant had his desk right behind the little fence by the door where guys would come in and complain about this and that. I don't know what was in this corner, but over here was the company clerk, it was a guy from Pennsylvania who had sergeant stripes on, but he was an E-4 but just because he was a company clerk and these guys were supposed to listen to him, they made him sergeant stripes but he wasn't a sergeant. He sat here, I sat here, and there was a private office and that was for the- for the company clerk, or the company commander. I didn't even remember him, he must have been there, but I- I didn’t pay any attention to him. And I- I can remember like only a couple of things; one my- one my, the company clerk did most the work. I don't know what I did. The first sergeant… One thing I did is if there was a military funeral of a, somebody killed in Vietnam that from eastern Texas or Louisiana and had requested a military funeral, Fort Polk would provide the- the honor guard and that was always done then by an E-6 in charge and then permanent party and it was my job to assign these guys on a rotating basis to do a funeral detail as we called it. That’s right I did that, I just assign ‘em, let him know, “hey you got such a such a day you got to go to, I’ll say, Mississippi,” well not Mississippi, maybe yeah, cuz they went quite a ways sometimes. That was my job, and one time they were on their way back and again I'd made no care whether black or white guys, they were GI’s, that's the way that we wanted to treat each other. They're coming back on the bus they were gonna have to stay overnight and the NCO in charge walked in along with the- the, these other �guys. They’re all NCOs or maybe E-4 at the least, mostly E-5’s and plus the E-6. E-6 says, “okay we- we need some rooms.” The clerk in the motel says, “well you guys can stay, but he can't.” “Oh no we're back on the bus,” so they didn't- they didn't stay. Well good for that NCO that said, “no- no we're all stay or none of us stay, too bad for you, you’ll have no more money.” So, theythey just came back. But you know every, most of the guys there were serving out their required time and they ran these ranges on- on Tiger Ridge training new, more guys. We didn’t have the best attitude, we had a lot of trouble on Monday morning, two guys got arrested for drunk and disorderly in town, you know, and you try and get them out of jail. And troubles like that or fights, these guys are not adjusting well and they're getting in fights. I didn't show up for revelry because I figured I worked in the orderly room, I'm gonna get there, I can take care of the paper you know I'm here. Just not a good attitude. The other thing I remember we must have had us, had a change in command at some level and the sergeant major came in, talked to the first sergeant, and says, “I need some guy to carry the flag, and a flagbearer during this ceremony.” First sergeant says, I don't remember his name he sits, turns, he was an E-7 said to me, “Faber you're the guy.” Oh brother I don't know, and so the sergeant major gets me out there by his office, showing me where, when I got to hold the flag down, and when I gotta tip it up, and what close I have to wear, and make sure your shoes are shined, and all this stuff. I remember doing that. I played a lot of pool, we had a pool room in the back part of the orderly room, through some doors and a day room type of thing. I played a lot of pool, and it got to the point when these guys were getting close to getting discharged, they had to come in and do some paperwork and so the first sergeant is busy telling them they ought to reenlist, you know. You tell them to sign up, you know you're E-5 if you sign up there's a $10,000 bonus and they'll give you another stripe, you'll be E-6 instantly. He's telling them that and I’m “no, no, no, no” shaking my head �no. No don’t do it and most of them didn't, most of them were, but he noticed what I was doing and so one afternoon he said, “Faber, you come in in the morning, we, I guess I was supposed to be at 7:30 and I was, I'm a morning person, I was there on time. He says, “you come in in the morning, do your work, and you get out of here. I don't want to see you around. I don't care where you go, you get out of here.” So, often I was at home by 10 o'clock in the morning. One day, this is interesting too, I'm I- I like to golf now but then I didn't golf much but there was a golf course on Fort Polk. And I don't remember what it, couldn't have cost more than a buck or two to play golf, and rent some clubs, dragged them around, and I'm playing all by myself, and all of a sudden there's some guy just hitting the ball a ton. So, I walk off to the side of the fairway and say, “come on just go through,” you know, “you're doing so good.” And he catches up with me says, “no- no we can play together.” He's really good, I'm really bad but hey I don't care if he. I had civilian clothes I took with me I'm not in a uniform. I took some regular civilian clothes changed and then I go play golf. Couple of holes we played together and out comes the guy from the clubhouse on a golf cart and he says to this guy I'm golfing with, “the old man is ready for his lesson.” This guy puts his clubs on the golf cart gets on the golf cart with him and go takes off, so I finished playing golf and get back to the clubhouse, turn these rented clubs in, say, “okay, who is that guy? That was golfing and you came out and picked him up.” He says, that’s Tom Weiskopf!” “Oh.” “He's a professional golfer.” “Oh, no wonder he’s so good.” Yeah quite a coincidence you know, so Sunday, a month or two later, he- he was in basic training in National Guard basic training. Which they also had basic training at Fort Polk, but I was always part of Tiger Ridge. He was there for basic training probably February or so or March, I don't know I'm watching a television on Sunday afternoon, golf there's Tom Weiskopf they’re talking about Tom Weiskopf playing golf. I'll be darned, I know that guy it's interesting how funny �things happen. And I would time my trip, I would never want… leaving the base going back home when I first got there and had a work a whole day, I timed my trip so I wasn't driving past the main post flag at retreat because then you had to stop, stand outside your car, and salute. I didn't want to do that, I would go early or late, but I didn't want to do that. (2:20.40) JS: And while you were there did your wife get a job, or? RF: No, she couldn't. There were all kinds of army wife’s there, you know and then she became pregnant so then she wasn't feeling so good. But I don't think she tried; I don't think that the city folks liked us a whole lot. They- they wanted us there, but they didn't like us. Granted- granted a lot of GIs were troublemakers think just caused a problem for that little town. They [unintelligible]… even this town is so small my wife needed a pair of shoes, we had to drive to Alexandria. That was a 50-mile trip to buy a pair of shoes. They didn't have her sized shoes in town or at least that she wanted to buy; it was crazy. Same thing when we were in, right after we got married, she had been working in a bank. And what was Michigan National Bank way back then before- before we got married. We moved to Madison, couldn't get a job because I was draft eligible, nobody wanted, they- they knew what was going to happen more than likely. And there was enough people that now, and when we, when we got out she didn't go back to work. I gotta, when I got out of Fort Polk, got out of there on a Friday I was supposed to get out on Sunday, but they didn't process Saturday and Sunday, so I got out on Friday before. Walked out of that building with my pay and travel pay from Fort Polk up to Grand Rapids, Michigan so I'm getting plenty of cash and we're moving home. That was on a Friday, we hit Grand Rapids Sunday afternoon, it was Mother's Day. I had forgotten that, but when I worked through my journal and then wrote down things from my grandkids and kids, my wife says, “that was Mother's Day �when we got home.” Then she didn't go back to work. I had a, I had been working in Madison and I had every intention of going back and they were obligated to give me a job back and I wrote to the guy that I really connected with there and he still worked there, Palmer Hayes and asked him for some drawings because I said Palmer I think I would like to, in a letter, I'd like to see if I could get a job in Grand Rapids. I've been away for two years, my family is all there, my wife's family, see if I can get a job. I don’t know so don't say too much. So, he fixed me up with a set of drawings that I had done some of the drawings on. Get home and my brother-in-law says, “you know there's this one small firm guy, nice guy owns it, his name is Dave Post. Why don’t you talk to him?” So, I called him up he says, “yeah come in to see me, we'll go to lunch someday.” So, I went down, we went to lunch, he was a member of the Pen Club, we had a nice lunch. On the way back he says, “you got a job.” So, that was it, worked and my wife didn't go back to work until our kids were in middle school and high school and then she went back to work. (2:24.03) JS: Okay. RF: Yeah that's kind of my story. JS: Alright so to look back in the time you spent in the service, so how do you think that affected you or what did you take out of it? RF: Oh, it man, it affected me dramatically, especially my time in Vietnam because we knew no [unintelligible], wedidn't, I didn't to this day Jim we got a very nice house. I became registered afterwards, so I'm a registered architect and I had a good career. We have a nice house in Forest Hills. There's a downspout outside our bedroom wall at the corner of the house. If it's raining, I can hear water dripping down that downspout and I thank God for a clean, dry, warm place to �sleep. I- I, it's changed me, my baseline of what I need has went, really dropped because my wife will say, “you know we really ought to replace some carpet.” And she doesn't want em, hear mehear me say I said, “I think it's like brand-new.” But it's okay for me but I- I, we've been married for 51 years. If she says we got to replace a carpet, we replace the carpet but not because I've ever noticed, it- it's just so that- that has changed me and it's a good thing, I don't feel bad about that. Now I volunteer every Friday with Family Promise, the homeless shelter for families. I do that for a couple of reasons; I used to tutor and mentor young men, African American, black boys. Now I volunteer with Family Promise again because I got I- I've been blessed so much in my lifetime and the military service has been part of that. It’s had the impact on me that I have real empathy for homeless families. Family Promise is unique because they keep the dads and the older boys with their mother and the little- little kids. They have 27 families in the program, the families at this point spend only a month to two months, by that time they, Family Promise has helped them develop the resume, coached them on interviewing, found him a job, and found them affordable housing. Then they're offered a mentor or a coach, whatever they want to call it to work with them for the next year or whatever. They'll meet with you once a month, once a week, once- twice a month, once a month, help them make better decisions. These aren't bad people, some of them yeah I wonder about, but most of them are not bad people, but they made bad decisions only be… primarily because they didn't have the benefit of a family unit that didn't even tell them how to make decisions, they did, my parents showed this, showed us how. They you know, so I kind of caught it. I wasn't taught it, but I was caught it I saw my parents sacrifice so we could go to Christian school that was more important than having a different car or having a television. So, the, I- I attribute some of that to my parents; the upbringing I had and my faith which is still very, most important to me, and then my family. And I want to leave some legacy �to my children and grandchildren of what I think is important. So, at Christmastime I give all the grandkids $20 and tell them I would like you to contribute this to some organization, any organization you choose, just send me an email on where it went. So, I know you did something good with it. And I hope that that has, that they'll remember Grandpa Faber by that, now three of them are in college, one of them is transferring to Grand Valley. She wants to be a ultrasonographer or whatever they call it, she's- she went two years to Lee University and now she's going up to Grand Valley. I got, she's the oldest, then I got a grandson, or we do have a grandson who goes to Grove City College in Grove City, Pennsylvania he's on a full ride scholarship very bright. And another grandson goes to Judson University in Elgin, Illinois. They have an excellent architecture school and that's where he's going and he's doing better than he did in high school. Which was same thing for me, I just wasn't motivated and applied myself enough in high school. I did much better in college. All of that's okay, but I- I'm hoping that they sense, you know grandpa, there's some more important things to grandpa than, I want them to get an education, but I want them to use it. They have some God gifted- God gifted talent and I want them to develop it. Have another grandson who's gonna be a senior in high school in Chicago Christian next year, my daughter and her husband live there. She's a teacher in Christian middle school but Alex will graduate, he said always for years he wanted to go to the Air Force Academy, that’s fine Alex. We saw him this fall and I said… are they still taping all this? Because this is nothing to do with Vietnam, this is just me now talking. JS: This is- this is just a, we're moving toward closing out it's fine. (2:29.47) RF: This, anyway, saw Alex last fall, Grandparent’s Day at Chicago Christian High School. We’re eating lunch at this table, his other grandparents are sitting across, Alex is there, Alex’s �friend, Judy and I. And I said to Alex, “you go to the Air Force Academy” And he's, I had witnessed him in an honors calculus class, this kid is bright. He's doing it on his iPad, and or on his laptop and his phone these problems that teachers, and he's scoring in the top three in his class doing the problem twice. Anyway, bright kid I started, “getting major in engineering?” He says, “grandpa,” he says, “I think I'm being called to be a teacher and teach religion class in high schools.” “Good Alex,” it almost made me cry that, you know, I- I think they're learning more than an education, education is important I'm not minimizing it. It's very important but to me there's- there's some character that's more important, just as important. You can be a person of high character delivering coal; I saw that and it's just good work and he could have done more but he did the best he could. My mother couldn't finish school either, she could have been a librarian, very- very bright but didn't have that opportunity. They were born in 1908, 1906 lived through the Depression, anyway that's getting away off. (2:31.31) JS: Alright. RF: I’m- I gotta say about any reflections on this, I mentioned I think briefly that I think Vietnam was a mistake and that they did, we never understood what the Vietnamese wanted. They wanted to have all of us occupiers out of here we didn't get it. It, after watching the documentaries it really, I had read a book several years ago about Vietnam, the history or something I think it was produced PBS or NPR or something. It was very thick book I lent to my daughter, but in there it was the first time I heard that maybe the Gulf of Tonkin was based not on a fact and that troubled me. Then Robert McNamara on his deathbed fessed up. LBJ never did, Robert McNamara said it was, it was not the truth. Which gave a basis for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which gave the president the- the authority to build this thing up. And then I watched a documentary and I hear �these politicians say, “I- I know we can't, literally, I know we're not gonna win but I gotta get reelected.” And my blood boils to think how can you do that, how can you sleep at night. Now we have a memorial 58,000 names of young people, primarily young people. What do you want to say to their parents? Want to say to their siblings or to their spouse? How can you, how could, how would you do that? So now I've become not skeptical anymore, I'm cynical and I don't like that and I'm trying not to be angry about it, but when I think about it. (2:33.21) JS: Sure. RF: It- it, I- I am angry that, I expect more better from our leaders. I really do. JS: Yeah, I think that's a perfectly reasonable expectation. I'll tell you it makes for a very good story and you tell it well, so I just like to close this by thanking you for taking the time to share it today. RF: Well my pleasure, I did recall from that initial interview which I wasn't- wasn’t prepared for didn't but when I watched the videos that I did and went through that process and then I got youryour mailing, I thought I- I’ll share this, he can do what he wants. Maybe it's nothing but I put a lot of work into, took me a long time, a lot of thought, a lot of remembering. So, now my interview can be better too because I… JS: Right. RF: I recalled, and I got a different perspective on things. Yeah so, okay good. JS: Alright. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_FaberR1990V Title A name given to the resource Faber, Rojer (Interview transcript and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-05-29 Description An account of the resource Roger Faber was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on November 5, 1945 where he graduated high school in 1964. He studies architecture at Ferris State College and went to work in Wisconsin before he was drafted into the Army. Faber attended Basic Training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. He was then deployed to An Khê with Bravo Company, 1st Cavalry Division. His platoon guarded bridges and conducted Ambush duties in the Highlands. For the remainder of his tour in Vietnam, Faber served as an S1 Clerk for the Headquarters Battalion in An Khê, Utah Beach, and LZ Jane. Afterwards, he was sent back to the U.S. to serve out the rest of his service at Fort Polk as a Headquarters Company clerk. When he finally left the service, Faber and his wife moved back to Grand Rapids where he resumed his architectual work. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Faber, Rojer Lee Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cdea96a20fef23a91c498c9a8eb9114a.jpg d824ae8df737b6dbe2ee89e38eba7d49 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_I147-0032 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1968-08-07 Title A name given to the resource Fabian von Schlabrendorff in Karlsruhe, Germany Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of Fabian von Schlabrendorff, the German jurist, soldier, and member of the German resistance against Adolf Hitler, as taken in Karlsruhe, Germany. Schlabrendorff was also a fellow prisoner of German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and both men were members of the anti-Nazi resistance. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Schlabrendorff, Fabian von, 1907-1980 Karlsruhe (Germany) Anti-Nazi movement--Germany Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2e9a07b39a329f3df5b77542164950cd.pdf eef6390183fd8d95441cb33ba8580f0e PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Interviewee: Fabiola Jimenez Interviewers: Lucas Mosher, Kelsie Overhuel, Kyle Richard and Karly Stanislovaitis Supervising Faculty: Melanie Shell-Weiss Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 2/14/2012 Biography and Description Fabiola Jimenez, a Colombian woman who has been living in East Michigan since 1994. She discusses how she feels as though she was never discriminated against because of her race. Transcript MOSHER: This is Lucas Mosher, Kyle Richard, Kelsie Overhuel, and Karly Stanslovaitis. We are at Mackinac hall, on the grand valley state university Allendale campus, and it is February 24th at 4:30 pm. We are interviewing Fabiola Jimenez, a Colombian woman from East Michigan. So, Tell us your story. Let’s start from when you moved from Colombia to Texas. JIMENEZ: Yes, I came to the United States in 1971, and I was 12 years old. My parents sent me here to live with my uncle and aunt, they stayed back home. And I went to school, to middle school, I started the 7th grade. I did not go to the special school where there was bilingual education, I went to the regular school in a separate school district, where there were no Hispanic children there, but there were cousins, that live in that neighborhood. And so when I went to that school, they were pretty much the few people who spoke Spanish were my cousins, but they were all obviously in other classes. I took special classes, I guess, with the counselor, who taught me words in English from flash cards, but I also attended regular classes with the other children in science, and math. Math was taught in a progressive mode, where you worked on worksheets, and you advanced at your own pace, it wasn’t like a classroom lead math class, unless there happened to be a group of kids working on the same subject. Through that method, I was able to advance quickly through algebra, so I moved on to take algebra in the 8th grade. By the time I went to the 9th grade, I was ready for geometry, and that didn’t seem to be an obstacle that I didn’t speak English that well. I feel that having to be immersed along with the other English speaking children, and not having a bilingual education helped me learn English very fast. And so I didn’t need special bilingual education classes to be able to catch up, or move a long with the other 8th graders and high school. So that’s how I finished high school in Texas. I got married in ’81, and we moved to Michigan in ’94. Lucas was a year old. And at that time, I was already a nurse, I had gone back to school and taken a nursing degree, a bachelors in nursing, and I worked in nursing all my life. And I feel that it has never been an obstacle to have been Hispanic. I have never felt discriminated upon by my employer because of my background. I have always obtained a job with my nursing credentials. Page 1 �RICHARD: When you had first moved to Texas, did you find it difficult to learn English at first, or did you catch on quickly? JIMENEZ: I feel that I caught on rather quickly. I had help, I would bring my homework home, and of course my uncle and aunt would help me with understanding what they wanted me to learn. The Spanish teacher at school would translate the homework for me, and so I went home with some idea of what I needed to do. I in particular remember my English teacher giving me almost special attention with flash cards, and film strips, which I’m sure you don’t know what those are, but they were special films that I could progress at my own pace that would show me words and pronunciations, and would tell me little stories to help me read. I feel that it was maybe special to me, because I was one of the few kids that did not speak English along with the other people. But when my uncle chose which middle school to send me to, he didn’t send me to the neighborhood school where I went, which was predominantly Hispanic, he wanted me to learn English right away, and so he sent me to the school where there were fewer Spanish speaking kids, so I feel that I quickly made friends that spoke English, and who helped me along. In particular, a funny story that I think that sticks in my mind is at the cafeteria. You know the little milk cartons? They showed me how to open the milk carton; because of course I did not know what “push up” meant. The combination where you open it like this (gestures) and you push it up, so they showed me, that’s how you open a milk carton. Well it only took once for me to learn the milk carton, but after that I knew what “push up” was. And so I had very kind people everywhere I’ve been, in the states. With all the different communities and people I have found them to be generous towards me, and they have taught me lots of things. I’ve never felt that they would withhold knowledge or information or acceptance. So I have to say that I don’t feel that I have been discriminated upon during my time here. MOSHER: At what point in Columbia did your family decide to send you to Texas? JIMENEZ: When you’re growing up in a 3rd world country, you don’t have the opportunity to go to school, mostly for financial reasons, because school is not free. Especially your elementary school, and your high school, and college is very expensive. In the states you are guaranteed that you’ll go through high school, and your parents don’t have to pay for your school, they pay from taxes, and yet you’re guaranteed that you’re going to be provided the education that you need, and if you’re smart enough, and dedicated enough, you’ll be able to go to college if your parents have the money, they’ll be able to pay for college for you, or you can get school loans and help from the government for whatever circumstances. My parents felt that I would have better opportunities here, to go to school, and advance further. My uncle and aunt lived here, and they did not have any children, so they asked if they would be allowed to bring me with them, and so they were my guardians, my uncle and aunt, and they lived in Texas. So I feel sometimes that maybe my parents; I used to think that they didn’t love me, or they abandoned me, or whatever, but you pretty quickly grow up from those thoughts when you realize of all the riches and wealth, that we live here in the United States, You know what I mean? There’s no war, there’s jobs, there’s healthcare, there’s the opportunity to work, to go to school, and you can say what you want and go do it. While in a 3rd world country, a developing country, you don’t have those opportunities, you don’t. If your parents have money, and you are smart, and you work hard, you might be able to maintain that level, but it doesn’t come easily for you independently to do it. You sometimes Page 2 �have to know somebody, to give you the favor of having a job. You got the job because you know that person. Or they are your friends. There’s a lot of… It’s who you know that gives you the job. Not because you got it because you saw an offering in the newspaper, and you applied, and they go for the best candidate. It doesn’t happen that way. And to get into school, is tough competition, because there are limited resources. Here, if you didn’t get into a 4 year college, well you can go to a 2 year college, and maybe bring up your grades so that next year you can go to a 4 year college. And you can go to college all your life. Here I am, as old as I am, and I was able to go back to school, and right now I’m in school to get my masters. In south America, if you don’t go to school when you’re young, weather you had the skills, the knowledge, and the money, to pay for school, in your later years, you probably won’t have the opportunity to go back to school. If you don’t have that opportunity when you are young, and take advantage of it, it’s probably gone for you, the opportunity to go back to school. STANISLOVAITIS: You mentioned that you had to pay for school, unlike you do here, before you go to college, so are you aware of how much that was? Or how much it would have been? JIMENEZ: Well it depends, because there are private schools, like kids that go to private schools here in the states, and they are very expensive. And there are also other schools, like the Montessori schools have a different fee, and pretty much it’s what your parents are willing to pay. There are public schools, but there’s a lot of kids in those schools that they probably don’t have the best resources to provide the best education. So if you can go to a catholic school, where the nuns will teach you, you’re probably considered very well educated, by having been given the best opportunity to succeed. MOSHER: What point growing up did your opinion of your parents sending you to America change from resentment to sadness, to like, “oh, thanks for sending me.”? JIMENEZ: When I went back home after high school, I went for a couple of years, and I realized that what I had learned in the states was applicable in south America, but it wasn’t what I wanted, because for a woman in a 3rd world country, when she becomes of marriage age, it is expected of her to marry and have kids. And I didn’t think I was ready. To me, I still had school to go to. Because I wanted to go to college, and I probably couldn’t have gone to college down there. So at the time I realized what they really wanted for me was to have a better lifestyle, more opportunity that other people don’t have. STANISLOVAITIS: Did they ever talk to you about that, or was it just something that you came to realize on your own? JIMENEZ: A little bit of both. We talked about it, especially after you grow up and you realize that your sisters’ lives are not that much better, and that they probably would have been better, or different if they had had the opportunities that we as women have here. That other girls don’t have in a 3rd world country. We can make the decision not just of career, but weather we want to marry or not, weather we want to have children or not. In other countries, you are told what you’re going to be doing. (Laughs) Over here, we don’t, we can do many things, when we want. We can decide even who to marry, we don’t have to wait for our parents to make the match, or for a man to come asking, we go look for one. It is just different culturally, and expectations for women are different. STANISLOVAITIS: How many sisters do you have? Page 3 �JIMENEZ: I have lots of sisters, one of them had 3 kids, and another younger sister than me has 2 children. But they have also travelled abroad, for better opportunities. I have a sister that lives in London, and of course she left Colombia, because of jobs, the economic situation is better for jobs and financially. We don’t have that many resources that everybody can be guaranteed a job. RICHARD: So when you finally decided that you were going to move to Michigan, what played into your decision to move from Texas to a place like Michigan? JIMENEZ: That was marriage. School, for my husband, dictated that we would move to Michigan, for job reasons. At that time I already had my nursing degree, and it was very easy for me to get a job almost through Internet and the mail, through a travelling nurse agency. I came to William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, as a travelling nurse, until we settled in Michigan, and figured out where we wanted to look for a house. When we settled in Milford, Michigan, then it was easier for me to see what hospitals were in the area, and I have worked in the area ever since we moved here. And it’s going to be 19 years, 18 years for sure. So it wasn’t like my decision, it was just like a family situational thing, that it was time to move for job reasons, and so we did. MOSHER: Would Michigan have been your first choice if you had just and option to go anywhere? JIMENEZ: Um, you know up to the time we moved to Michigan we had the luxury, I guess, to travel throughout the United States with being, you know, we’ve been in many states and every states has special situations that I don’t think I would have been unhappy practically anywhere. You know what I mean? I think that I would have found contentment, or satisfaction wherever I lived as long as it was in the United States. You know what I mean? It just doesn’t matter, I mean the highway system makes sense, we speak a common language, you know? We expect certain things so I don’t think I would have preferred living in California or Florida or move back to Texas. Now I do have to admit that it took me a while to accept living in Michigan. Right. Because you have a certain vision of things that you want your life to be and it didn’t seem that at the beginning that it was going the way I wanted, I expected it. Ok? Because we all have expectations. But after a while you realize it’s not bad at all. We have a job, we have a house, we’re healthy. Lucas is going to school. You know and that kind of thing. You kinda settle into the acceptance mode. That this is okay and now the weather doesn’t bother me. It was like yay snow! It was time to get some snow. So it will be gone here, it’s gone actually and the tulips are going to bloom soon so…I like it, I appreciate it now. I appreciate the fall and the summer, the apples and the cherries. All those things I appreciate them more now. But it takes time for me to I guess mature and settle down in the environment that you live. MOSHER: So I guess it’s safe to say that you wouldn’t choose to live in any area other than the United States? JIMENEZ: Oh absolutely, Yeah, cause we’ve lived, I have had the opportunity to live in a third world country and when we were younger we had the opportunity to travel to Europe and live in Europe for nine months and it was not a good experience. There I felt discriminated. MOSHER: Can you describe some of those instances of discrimination? Page 4 �JIMENEZ: Overseas? Yes. Um, we lived in Belgium and they are a French speaking country and we lived in the French speaking area of Belgium and we would go to the bakery and I would want a loaf of bread and of course my French is not very good and I couldn’t make myself understood so I would notice they would serve the customer who had walked in the door behind me first before they would attend to me. So I assumed it was loyalty to the customer, that’s a regular well we had just gotten there. But no it seemed to be a persistent pattern that I had to wait for the girl in the back to come and help me. Not necessarily in English either. While here I feel that, in America if you go to the Japanese store or the Korean store you can walk in and pick whatever you want. You got money and you are going to spend it in my store so yay come in. Exactly? No they are not going to discriminate against you; you’re coming to give the business so I felt somewhat discriminated. MOSHER: Do you feel that that was in part to your Columbian upbringing or your language barriers? JIMENEZ: I think it was in part language barrier and a little bit signaphobia. MOSHER: So they just didn’t like outsiders? JIMENEZ: They just didn’t like outsiders because I think they felt that there were quite an influx of foreign students into the community that we were living in. STANISLOVAITIS: Do you in general people there were maybe more hostile or maybe not as accepting as people in America? JIMENEZ: Yes, Yes I feel that they were not accepting and I feel that they were annoyed that we were butchering their French roots and not speaking properly. MOSHER: This is kinda funny because earlier in class we watched a video called “Black Boy” and it’s about Richard Wright, the author and in that video he was talking about how he moved to France and actually really liked it because he didn’t feel discriminated against there. So it was kinda funny hearing you saying that you felt discriminated there and he saying he actually enjoying it more. JIMENEZ: I don’t know people have different experiences and different perceptions. I know personally that I wouldn’t want to live in Europe. For sure, I don’t want to live in Europe. I like my car, I like my mobility, I’m comfortable anywhere but, so I don’t know. We all have different perceptions so I would not move overseas. I don’t even want to travel overseas. I’ve been there so I don’t want to go. I mean I don’t want to discourage you from going. I mean Paris is beautiful, London is beautiful and it’s definitely an experience to behold, to be involved in it but I wouldn’t want to go. Brush that old city in Belgium is beautiful and I appreciate their history but I don’t want to live there. STANISLOVAITIS: Did you say that you valued having the experience knowing that that wasn’t what you wanted and did it make you appreciate being an American even more? JIMENEZ: Absolutely, absolutely because I can see what influences have made America what it is now. So yes, I appreciate it very much. I like it here. I love it here. I don’t want to go anywhere. So but no you as young people I encourage you to travel and see the world and experience it and formulate your own Page 5 �opinion; don’t let anybody discourage you from going to Mexico. Mexico is beautiful. Columbia is beautiful. They have their things to offer, experiences to offer. STANISLOVAITIS: I feel like in America we are a little bit spoiled and we think that everyone has what we have, but they don’t. JIMENEZ: Yeah, they don’t have it and sometimes I feel that young people are like ingrates. They are not thankful for the things that they have and they don’t appreciate it. So yeah do go, go and see how the rest of the world lives and you’ll soon realize that you are very unique in your own self. Just because you are in America because it makes you who you are and you are very unique and they’re the ones that are “weird”. I didn’t say that. No but do travel if you get the opportunity to go on an exchange program or go for the summer somewhere. Do go, absolutely. Don’t be afraid of it. RICHARD: Earlier you had mentioned that you were a nurse; do you think you can tell us a little bit about your nursing career and how you got into nursing? JIMENEZ: Absolutely, it’s a great question. The thought of nursing was put into me by a teacher I met in High School. She taught a class called Health Education and because I was a foreign student, Health Occupations Education it was the class, and because I was a foreign student I was not able to work and have a job and get paid cause I did not have a Social Security number. A little card with social security number, I had a student visa. So my job was to be her assistant. She gave me the job to be her assistant and I could take both classes, the first period and the second period and for work I would be her assistant. Because the kids were able to work in doctors’ offices, dentals, at the hospital, clinic that kind of thing but I couldn’t cause I didn’t have the proper documentation I guess for work permit. So she guided me and told me that I should consider being a nurse and influenced me a lot in making that my career so I always knew that that’s what I wanted to do or that’s what I should do. And to tell you the truth I never imagined myself not being a nurse either, from her influences, and so that’s what I’m did. I was not able to go to school right away after finishing high school but once I was able to return to the United States I started taking classes at the community college, one class at a time, two classes at a time because I had to work and pay for school at the same time. My parents did not have the financial resources to say yeah go to Grand Valley, live in the dorm and we’ll pay your tuition. It wasn’t that way, I had to pay for myself. And so I could only work a little bit and take a class here and there. Once I got married it afforded me a little bit of financial freedom because of my husband’s job and income and I was able then to pay for school and go full time and so I got my bachelors in science and nursing and I worked as a critical care nurse for eighteen years. And I am now going back to school to get my masters and I hope to get my nurse practitioner’s degree with an education certificate by 2014, so I hope to be done soon. As in soon, in two years’ time goes by fast. So I hope that I’ll be able to accomplish that. But yeah, I was influenced by a lady that I call mother, I call her mother. Her name was Evelyn and she influenced me to go stay in a health career path. So I’ve been a nurse all this time. Never a day unemployed for sure. I always had a job. MOSHER: Before you met her what were your ideas of what to do in life? Page 6 �JIMENEZ: What to do? I probably didn’t have any ideas. Just winging it. Yeah, I was probably was just winging it. You go to school and you study and what not but I had taken a Child Development class and through that class we had to have practicum hours and I went to an elementary school, a kindergarten and pre-kinder and I was the teacher assistant with the kids and that seemed like fun so I thought maybe I want to be a teacher but because this health occupations Education was also an elective class that you could sign up for during High School. I did that and in that would discuss what a dentist does, what a doctor does, nurses, pathology, lab tech and all the different careers in the health care and so I knew that one of those would be fine for me. That I would like it, I enjoyed the Anatomy Physiology component of the class. Talking about diseases and stuff like that so I think I would’ve chosen something in medicine but nursing seemed acceptable. So that’s what I’ve done all this time. MOSHER: Earlier off the record we talked about some people not understanding your accent over the phone… JIMENEZ: Mhm, I have to do some phone interviews for the patients are coming for procedures and stuff and give them instructions prior to their procedures and at times I have to speak to people and it hasn’t been often and occasionally I’ll bump into someone who is less patient and maybe my accent comes a lot stronger or louder over the phone and they say I have a hard time understanding you. I think it’s your accent or something and I say well I’ll have someone else call you, no problem there. It’s kinda like did you not understand me or were you just not willing to talk to me? But what can you do? STANISLOVAITIS: I know if you would’ve you decided you still wanted to live in Columbia and still wanted to do in nursing do you feel that since you would’ve not really had that opportunity to get the education that the quality of care that you would’ve given would be lower? JIMENEZ: Since I was in South America when I was little I did not even consider even studying nursing. But I did do, I took a certificate as a bilingual secretary and I started working as a bilingual secretary because I had learned English in high school so that gave me a leg up instead into perhaps a business degree or a business career in secretarial at work or maybe a hotel, tourism or something I probably would’ve done that because of my bilingual ability. So I wouldn’t have considered nursing but if I had considered nursing the quality would be according to their resources. And I know that many people in South America they do have access to medication but they are not free. Is that like when you go to the public health department? Have you ever been to the public health department? In South America you have to pay for your…for everything, when you come to the hospital here women give you a bucket with tooth brush tooth paste soap a towel…right, a bucket to puck in if you need to…right. When you go to the hospital in South America you better bring those things with you or have someone bring them for you including the sheets. And if preferably bring someone to stay with you to help you with your stay in the hospital because there are few health care people who are skilled to take care of patents there’s fewer medications right. And there is fewer resources. So it’s not as available as it is here. So I don’t think that if I had stayed in South America in Columbia that I would be a nurse right now. More than likely not. And probably…I would have had more than one child. (Laughs) I would probably have twenty of them. (Laughs) I don’t know what the deal is but it would have been my choice definitely it be only Page 7 �what I wanted. You know what I mean? My life would have been a little bit different. In a more male dominated environment. STANISLOVAITIS: You mentioned that your sisters, they still live in Columbia so like do you feel like they because of all of the opportunities that you have gotten in America. Do you feel like they have any desire to have the same opportunities? JIMENEZ: Mhmm well yeah I am sure they have. I mean they’re not lacking. I mean they have a nice house, a nice home they have families and everything. But like what I was telling you we all settle in to what our fortune is and you accept it. You know what I mean? So I think they have been content, you know my oldest sister you know she has her husband, her kids, they’re in their thirties their grown. You know, she’s a grandma. You know I am sure she loves her grand children and stuff. You just kind of settle in to you lifestyle, and make the best of it. You know? And make the best opportunity that you have, she had a good job and her husband had a good job and it provided for their families. You know? They took advantage of the opportunity that was offered to them at the time, but I don’t think that they had the same choices I had. *Pause* JIMENEZ: So I encourage you to travel overseas or even in the United States. I encourage you to stay in school and if your parents are paying for it take all that you can. (Laughs) And take advantage of it because once you start paying for it yourself it is hard, it is hard to part with that money that you are paying for by yourself. And it is difficult to work and go to school at the same time, it’s hard I mean I am sure you have friends who work and go to school at the same time or who would like to be at Grand Valley but they have to go to the community college because they can’t afford it or didn’t get student loans. Or if they got the student loans [they are] already in debt to pay for the student loans. You know what I mean? If you have a scholarship definitely take advantage of it. Stay in School. You know prepare yourself because knowledge is something that nobody and take away from you. I mean that goes where you where ever you go, it will follow you. You know? And you never know when you are going to us it; you never know when it will become valuable for you. So…the opportunity presented itself for me to go back to school right now so I want to go I want to do it so I always wanted to get my masters. I am working on my masters right now. Very busy. The house isn’t clean, the kitchen isn’t washed the dishes aren’t washed, but Lucas is not home so it can stay that way. You know so I like it though I’m happy…I’m happy to be going to school now. It will be over April 15th so…just keep my calendar of how many more days. I know you do too right? (Laughs) You know, so stay in school and travel if you can now that your young, and you can see the world. RICHARD: Could you tell us a bit about because you said you graduated high school and you went back to Columbia JIMENEZ: I went back to Columbia for two…two years maybe RICHARD: Could you tell us what it was like when you finally came back to the United States? Page 8 �JIMENEZ: Oh, it was wonderful. When I came back to the United States I lived with my brother who was also living in Texas and after a couple of months I didn’t like living in his house because I needed to go to school and what not so I called the teacher I told you about and told her I needed a place to stay and she allowed me in her house. She was single, no children elderly obviously she was my high school teacher. And so I lived in the house with her. And so while I worked and continued to go to the community college I lived with her for a couple of years. And than shortly after that I got married. And I have been married ever since. And that changed you know my life quite differently it became a different dynamic. Where I still can go to school full time but I was able to go to school part time and work and start you know the next step. You get married have children except the child didn’t come until thirteen years later you know. (Laughs) It just happened that way but it was my choice it was a decision for me to make you know what I mean it wasn’t my parent’s decision to make. So… STANISLOVAITIS: I sound like you have always sort of valued being independent and to have. JIMENEZ: Ahh your very smart, you are so smart. Yes and that is something that this this is funny. You’re going to make me laugh because yes a thing a child would experience. I was raised. most Hispanics are catholic. And for my elementary school I did go to a Catholic school. I was raised by the Catholic Church in school. But when it came to Sundays my grandfather would take me to a Presbyterian church. Which is a protestant faith. So during the weekend…during the week I was catholic but on the weekend I was protestant. Right because I was going to the catholic school it came the time where the girls had to do their first communion. Who any kind of Catholics? Are you Catholic? No, Okay but you know what a first communion is they have the ceremony and it’s like an induction in to somewhat older girlhood or adulthood almost. So I did my first communion and I did that without my parents consent. Because as far as I was concerned they could go to hell but I not. So I did my first communion and how my parents found out I found me a dress, the Vail, the shoes and somebody to take me up there to do my first communion, because that is what we were learning in school. It is time to do your first communion and this is why it is important to do it and dedicate your life you know say that you know are catholic. Now profess your faith. Yeah I think I am I’m not going to hell. So I did my first communion and how my parents found out was because the photographer brought pictures to the house to see if they wanted to buy the pictures of the beautiful girl doing her first communion. So yes I have been very independent so that’s an example right there. The other example I can give you about independence I can give you about independence is my…piercing of your ears. You know some Hispanic countries they do believe for children to have their ears pierced if they are girls the day they are born. You know? Mom already has earrings in the girls ears, my mom didn’t do that to me she wanted me to wait until you know I was fourteen or fifteen to get my ears pierced. No I didn’t wait I was probably seven or so my friend was getting her ears pierced by her grandmother and I went and had my ears pierced without my mothers consent. So yes you are very…very observant. Very smart. But yes I have been very independent sometimes gets me in trouble too. So yes I have been very independent in doing my own thing and that’s something you don’t…a luxury almost that most girls don’t have in third world countries to choose you know, what classes they are going to take next semester. You know someone is always telling you what to do whether it is your parents or your husband or somebody else. Yeah Page 9 �MOSHER: What were your parent’s reactions to you going off and doing those things with out their consent? JIMENEZ: Well (Laughs) my mom bought the pictures so whatcha’ going to do you know. (Laughs) I have a couple of them. She could not afford all of them but she did buy a couple of pictures and the other pictures I remember the man being upset when my mom told him that she couldn’t buy all the pictures and he tossed them in the street. You know she only bought two of them you know what I mean. I have…I have…I have those pictures. And for my earrings I had to hear the lecture I told you so, I told you so, I told you so, because they got infected. And so I had to do that, washing with soup and water and put alcohol in that little thread in there so that … MOSHER: to floss the little thing JIMENEZ: Yeah yeah to keep the hole open. Yeah you know if I hadn’t done that it would have just sealed back up but of course it got infected because I am sure the old lady that poked my ear probably didn’t disinfect the needle. It’s probably old and dirty. You know she did my friends ears and than she did my ears. So it’s like oh my gosh. So totally not clean technique, she probably didn’t even wash her hands you know. But my mom was very prompt to remind me “I told you so”. But what not they healed I got earrings (Laughs) So but anyway besides being annoyed and upset I think that she was also supportive you know you can only control your children so much that’s the other thing as a parent I have learned now. I can only offer my children the opportunity and than they have to make their own decisions as to what they are going to do with their lives. So that’s it. MOSHER: On a different not I know you met your husband Mark in high school, how did you do the two years when you were in Columbia after high school? JIMENEZ: Oh very good question. …letters. Mark would send me letters. Well Mark didn’t right me…I don’t know maybe six months almost a year until he sent me the first letter in high school. And I think it was because he bumped in to my cousin or something so he …got my address from one of them or I don’t remember what happened but I started getting letters in the mail and because the mail was so slow many times I would get two, three letters at a time. And I would try to send him a letter back. And I have a stack of letters and so I started telling him to please number the letters that way I would know that there was another letter coming. Because sometimes I think he spent his time in class writing the letter to me rather than studying. Because many times it would be written in the notebook and on notebook paper and than I feel that he would just finish fold it up put in an envelope and put it in the mail. If he was not finished with the letter he would continue on another page, and so he would send that one the next day and the mail…one would not catch up with the other and they would arrive out of order. So he started numbering the letters. And you know I would try to keep them in order. So I have a little stack of letters that Mark sent from the states, cards and that kind of thing. And the calling of the phone was expensive. We didn’t have Skype there was no email no instant messaging. You know none of those things that we take for granted now. I mean right now I could get on the internet with Skype connection and call my sister you know and see her you know it’s kinda cool. We didn’t have that and you know the phone it was expensive. And he had to tell me in a letter “ I’m going to try to call you on this day at this time” and than I would have to wait and think, “Is he going to call is he not going to call” Page 10 �you know I can’t leave. You know what I mean it was just a lot of hassle a lot of difficulty but…but that’s how it was done. No instant messaging, no texting, no emails, no phone messages either. No answering machines, did we have answering machines? I don’t think so. None of the convince. STANISLOVAITIS: That must have been really hard. JIMENEZ: It’s really hard. I know it’s really hard. It’s even hard now when he says “oh I can’t talk to you I have phone fatigue”. It’s like really? Phone fatigue. But anyway yeah it’s it’s really hard. It was really hard, it’s almost like a joke you know “no text messaging” (Laughs) I still don’t have text messaging but I know it’s available. You know what I mean. I mean if I don’t have it it’s because I’m delayed in moving in to the 21st technological advances. 21st century technological advances but not because I don’t want them you know I haven’t found a need for it. But you know it’s there. STANISLOVAITIS: Can you blame anyone that doesn’t want to be connected to everything all of the time? JIMENEZ: I know exactly. I do panic if I can’t find my cell phone. So yes I am one of those that has developed I think they came out on the Internet with a new phobia of being separated from your computer or I don’t know what they call it…eh phobia. So yeah I don need my cell phone. JIMENEZ: I think they came out with a new phobia of being separated from your computer or your…I don’t know what they call it. So yeah, I do need my cell phone. I’m always in the wrong place of town. I’m always like, I’m lost look at the internet, how do I get outta here, you know, and I’m on my way home or had a flat tire {and} ran out of gas, whatever I’m gonna be late, so I do need a cell phone. MOSHER: Earlier you talked about how you think young people they’re ungrateful for what they have. Do you think that’s in part due to the satisfaction of things like text messaging and Skype? JIMENEZ: I just think that, and I think we all, have a little bit of {a} lack of gratitude at one time or another, because it wasn’t until much later that I understood, and felt very grateful, that my parents sent me here. As hard as it was to be away from my parents during my early adolescent years and early adulthood, you know when I wish to be maybe mothered more than what my aunt was willing to do for me- because she wasn’t my mother, she was my aunt, after all. So I felt a little bit ingrateful {sic} not grateful enough, I feel. But later on I understood it was because she really wanted me to have better opportunities, and so I appreciated that highly. And I think with kids now all they have to do is tell the Easter Bunny what they want to bring ‘em and they kinda get it, ya know what I mean? I want a new swimsuit I want a new car, ya know, some kids get it, they just get it. Their parents are there. And so they don’t see that even though their parents go to work everyday, have to punch a card everyday, make sure that they don’t go on vacations, that they follow their finances and expenditures and purchases and stuff like that it still affects them. I think if their parents had a choice they’d wanna stay home, they don’t wanna go to work, ya know, unless they really love their job so much ya know, but at one time or another everybody has had to make even the sacrifice of getting up early in the morning to get in the car to drive to work. You may not always feel…you may like your work, but you may not always feel like you’re ready to go. You wanna sleep late on Monday morning sometimes, ya know? Page 11 �So you take for granted that at one time or another your parents have had to make do to provide for their children. Even if it is a different extra expenditure of the cell phone, the instant messaging, ya know the calls, the extra hours of points so you don’t go over your minutes or whatnot, you know what I mean? New clothes. And you wanna give your kids, too, ya know? So I think that kids just have it easy now. I mean there’s no more child labor, ya know what I mean? And you’re not gonna go hungry, most parents would provide for their kids, unless there are other circumstances, ya know, I’m not saying that all parents have the ability to provide for their children, ya know there is other issues whether it is drug dependency, or mental illness or unemployment like what’s going on right now, but I think for the most part parents, at one time or another, have always made a little compromise for their children. Ya know, diapers are expensive, especially when you’re just starting out and you’re working for a little bit more than minimum wage and you have a baby. And all of a sudden it’s like, it’s not that you don’t want the baby, but another side of you that money’s gonna be not for your haircut or your nails, it’s gonna go for diapers or a bigger Onesie ‘cause he’s growing too fast, ya know, so…and I don’t know that kids understand that, but I think you all will. At one time or another you’ll be parents yourselves and you will understand that a little bit better. MOSHER: Earlier we were talking about how you hadn’t seen much discrimination in America; do you think that’s true for almost everyone or do you think America’s just a really friendly place? JIMENEZ: I don’t know, I don’t wanna say that there isn’t discrimination, I just, from my personal experience, I have to say I have not ever felt it being directed ya know? But I mean I know that, , some African American individuals feel that they have been discriminated. Ya know I have never felt that, ya know. Some of ‘em may say that they need to be ‘paid back’ for slavery after all this time, I never can say that I’ve been a slave so I don’t know their experiences so I don’t have a shared experience with that, but I was like you, learned in school. I don’t deny it- yes, there was slavery- ya know, but I don’t know how to put it. I’m sure there’s discrimination. I can’t say that I have experienced it. STANISLOVAITIS: Well it seems like there’s a really big perception among other countries that Americans are spoiled and entitled, and like you said earlier, kids especially are not grateful for what they have because we have so many opportunities. Since you have been back to Columbia a few times, were you old enough, did you feel that way when you came back to America, did it make you look at Americans differently? JIMENEZ: No, because it’s just the environment that we live in; you just don’t know any better, you just don’t know any different. Until you experience that yourself you’re not gonna realize that it’s any different, right? I think that’s how I see it. But yeah, I could say that most kids are spoiled, but that’s what we want, as parents, we want ‘em to have what we didn’t have, you know what I mean? Like, I never had a beautiful bicycle when I grew up; I learned to ride a bicycle when I was fifteen. So needless to say I’m not very agile in turning wheelies and all this stuff, right, but when Lucas became of age, five or six, to have a bicycle, I got him the most beautiful bicycle I could find, because it was the bicycle I would’ve loved to have had as a kid. And granted it wasn’t purple and it didn’t have little flutteries, but it was a very beautiful red bicycle, right, Lucas? Page 12 �And I think as parents you will learn that it doesn’t matter, you’re gonna try to give your kids the very best you can. So I think that’s just being a parents ‘flaw’ or fault; we wanna give the kids the best. We don’t want them to have an trouble like our parents had or like I had, even though I don’t feel like I’ve had any trouble. We always wanna make it best for them, which may not be the best parenting thing to have done. We still wanna teach them to work hard, to study hard, to achieve, to progress, to motivate. But we don’t accomplish that test by providing things for them. MOSHER: The distaste…from other countries about America, do you think that stems from jealousy, or do they have other motives for disliking us as a country? JIMENEZ: I feel in part it’s jealousy, but also in part it’s their cultural influences, their own cultural influences. Because many people have had a background of being raised in a socialist mentality, that your computer is my computer, too, right? While, in America, it’s like, no, I have my computer, you have your computer, and you have your computer. And you get the computer you can afford, I get the computer I can afford, and you get the computer you can afford, but we all have computers, right? Over there I feel like it comes from the mentality that we’re gonna have to share and I don’t care how much money you have, you’re gonna pay more taxes and that kinda stuff. So it’s partly their social upbringing, their political influences, and their cultural as well. While here in America I feel that if I get two jobs, I might be able to get an Apple {computer} like that. It may take me a little bit longer saving it, but nobody’s gonna tell me I can’t have it. If I want it you betcha I’m gonna work for it and I’m gonna get it, even it means I’m not gonna go to McDonald’s’ for the next two months. Nobody’s telling me I cannot have it; nobody’s regulating whether I can go to the Apple store, or Walmart or Kmart or Meijer’s to get it, ya know what I mean? While over there they may only have one computer for sale; they may not have computers for everybody anyway, whether you have the money or not. Does that make sense? Does that make sense or am I just rambling? MOSHER: Do you think there’s anywhere else in the world that functions on that same ‘if you want it you can have it’ kinda thing, or is America the only place to get that? JIMENEZ: I think, another place might be, I’m assuming, I don’t know for a fact, but I think maybe England might work under those premises. That if you have the money, and you want it, and you have a job, you can get it. While in Mexico, for example, they may not be able to find that second job to buy what they want because their first job isn’t providing for them. Even if they wanted to get a second job, there isn’t one. Even here, with the extent of unemployment, and I don’t know if your parents are employed or unemployed with the economical circumstances we have now, we can still go mow the yards, there are still signs that say ‘help wanted.’ OK, maybe not with the skills that you went to school for or whatever, but you can find a job. I don’t know, I don’t think there’s another place in the world like the United States, I don’t think so. STANISLOVAITIS: You mentioned that you have done a lot of traveling…do you feel like that has given you a bigger appreciation for not only for where you came from and where you are, but from a global view? Page 13 �JIMENEZ: Yeah, because I learned to appreciate other people’s cultures. For example, in my house I like to celebrate the Chinese New Year in January, so we have Chinese food. I love Chinese food, I wouldn’t wanna be without it. I wanna know that it’s available and I like it. I like to go to the Vietnamese kitchen; I like to go to the Italian restaurants, so defiantly I can appreciate the foods. My Pączki’s didn’t go unnoticed from the Polish community, I knew that they were available for when I wanted to get it, so I can appreciate that. I can appreciate the music, and I can appreciate the contributions that they have done not just to the United States, but culturally, and through literature and all that stuff. So yes, it broadens your prospective, and I appreciate that. But I don’t wanna live there; I’m happy right here. I wanna know that I can go just about any city in the United States and find a Chinese restaurant, an Italian restaurant, Greek, ya know. Whatever, I just want it here, I wanna go. STANISLOVAITIS: I think it’s kinda interested you mentioned restaurants and food and general things like that. When people think of things that they don’t have they don’t think of things like that. ‘Cause we’re always taught big things like education, and being independent and being able to provide for yourself. I feel like we don’t realize if we didn’t have those opportunities we wouldn’t have any of that. JIMENEZ: Absolutely. The little things do matter. And pretty soon you’ll realize it’s not the big picture, but it’s things that you do everyday that matter the most. MOSHER: So I guess to wrap things up here it’s safe to say that you think America’s a pretty diverse place? {Inaudible} JIMENEZ: Absolutely. I feel that it’s very diverse, and I feel that people are realizing that they need to fight for the opportunities and to keep it, for the opportunity to continue to be on their level. For the mentality that hard work would provide things for you, not wait for somebody to give them to you, OK. Don’t expect the government to provide for you health care, safety or security, or anything like that. You need to be able to provide those things for yourself, and in return provide it for your family, your community, and your. {Inaudible}. Whether it is the freedom of choice, the freedom of religion, the freedom to go to school and study whatever you want. And to shop for the things you want to shop for, and work as many jobs as you want to. MOSHER: Well, thank you for coming in Group: Thank you END OF INTERVIEW Page 14 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a2588214a018331d7231e2e49e2ef579.mp3 a35c6475300f6ff561200cdd0bcca1a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Jimenez_Fabiola Title A name given to the resource Fabiola Jimenez audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jimenez, Fabiola Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mosher, Lucas Overhuel, Kelsie Richard, Kyle Karly Stanislovaitis Description An account of the resource Fabiola Jimenez, a Colombian woman who has been living in East Michigan since 1994. She discusses how she feels as though she was never discriminated against because of her race. Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Women--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-14 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0dc6c2e8b7f7e74bbcc1b1b98d8b1991.jpg 825fd92f3cb4b13e9f8eac292a90842c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1006 .A6 F33 1899 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0206 Title A name given to the resource Fables in Slang Description An account of the resource Binding of Fables in Slang by George Ade, published by Herbert S. Stone and Co., c.1899. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1899 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90b713385ae4af433937ee68eacb1dbf.mp3 960fa8602d093d844781b4f728c182bc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Lent I Series The Will of God in Human Action Scripture Text Luke 9:51 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19960225 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1996-02-25 Title A name given to the resource Face Set - Steely Will and Gracious Heart Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on February 25, 1996 entitled "Face Set - Steely Will and Gracious Heart", as part of the series "The Will of God in Human Action", on the occasion of Lent I, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Luke 9:51. https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8e2e5582fc7caac6c1b2544625b6f33c.mp3 3fa3b333a53b4c8ae50f6760ec426b29 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event New Year_s Eve Series Now _ But Then Scripture Text Psalm 16:5, 11, Matthew 1:23 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19951231 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1995-12-31 Title A name given to the resource Face to Face Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 31, 1995 entitled "Face to Face", as part of the series "Now - But Then", on the occasion of New Year's Eve, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Psalm 16:5, 11, Matthew 1:23. https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa7e38bdf2d93f7ee0ed0db5c0b81291.mp3 062308ae4e9ebf0439905abce07f3be5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event New Years Eve Scripture Text no Scriptural text listed Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19901231 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990-12-31 Title A name given to the resource Face to Face - Now and Then Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on December 31, 1990 entitled "Face to Face - Now and Then", on the occasion of New Years Eve, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: no Scriptural text listed. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d0bc9ca59dd2adf2dfa6fbadaeb752d9.pdf ea4c24f74cc086cfe9e800b20bc42720 PDF Text Text Face To Face, Now and Then A Service of Worship In Celebration of the Life of Norman J. Campbell (October 7, 1937 to January 20, 2014) Psalm 16: 5-8, 11; I Corinthians 13: 4-13 Richard A. Rhem First Congregational Church Muskegon, Michigan January 24, 2014 Transcription of the written sermon Let me begin by expressing my appreciation to First Congregational Church for giving the honor and privilege of sharing in this celebration of the life of Norman J. Campbell and to Pastor Tim Vander Haan for graciously allowing me to share in this service with him. It means a great deal to me to be able to be part of Norm’s funeral service; he was such a dear friend and for many years one of my faithful parishioners at Christ Community Church, with Maureen and their daughters. Over the past year we were in touch, hoping to go out to lunch. We even had a date but as the time came had to cancel; Norm’s health continued to deteriorate and treatments did not have a positive outcome. I think it was December 9 I sat with him and Maureen and Wendy. He had received the dreaded news – his body could not tolerate the only measure that might save him. It was a sober moment. For the first time we spoke of plans for where we are today – celebrating his life, he having gone on before us. Shortly before Christmas Nancy and I stopped in. In the course of our conversation, Maureen said, “Are you going to Florida?” I said, “Yes, only a short get-away, January 4 to 19.” Then I looked at Norm and said, “and you behave yourself!” That’s the way it was with us; even pointing to his end we shared a bit of humor. He was so easy to be with. Well, we went to Florida and returned last Sunday evening. At 8:00 am Monday, Maureen called. Norm had breathed his last at 4:52 am. Maureen said, “He knew you had returned and he could let go.” I found it remarkable. The last week was very difficult but he held on until he knew all would be in order, thinking not of himself but his loved ones. © Grand Valley State University   �Face to Face Now & Then Richard A. Rhem Page 2   Your presence here attests to what I think would be universally agreed on – This was a beautiful human being. Being human, he must have had an imperfection or two but I never detected it. I admired and respected Norm and held him in deep affection. He was so easy to be with, his wry sense of humor and lightness of being. And he was always the same – easy, comfortable, natural – even speaking of what he desired for this service. From the moment I hear of a death and know I will be bringing the funeral meditation, I begin to think of the person and the Scriptures. That’s probably a peculiar preacher’s thing, but I always desire to paint a portrait of the person in the framework of the biblical story that has shaped us. With someone like Norm one could go in many directions but finally one must choose the contours of the character one would paint. I have chosen two scriptural passages from which to reflect with you on the life of this one we loved and have lost awhile. From the Psalms, Psalm 16: 5-8, 11. Psalm 16 is one of my favorites. Beginning with verse 5, the Psalmist expresses a sense of deep wellbeing. The boundary lines have fallen to me in pleasant places; I have a goodly heritage. He is full of gratitude for his human situation – referring to Israel’s coming into the land of Israel when the tribes divided the land by casting lots. The Psalmist is pleased with his human situation. But his wellbeing is rooted in something deeper. I keep the Lord always before me; because he is at my right hand I shall not be moved. In the Hebrew “before me” is literally “before my face.” That being so, he is steadfast whatever human experience brings him. His heart is glad; His soul rejoices. So confident is he that he cannot conceive of being given up to Sheol – the realm of the dead. One commentator writes: It can be read as the general prayer of the faithful who, without any doctrine of resurrection or eternal life to explain just how, nonetheless trust the Lord to keep them with such total confidence that they cannot imagine a future apart from life in God’s presence. (James L. Mays, Interpretation: Psalms, p. 88) Again the Psalmist exclaims, © Grand Valley State University �Face to Face Now & Then Richard A. Rhem Page 3   You show me the path of life. In Your presence there is fullness of joy; in Your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Were we to read this poem in the original Hebrew we would see a beautiful juxtaposition. In verse 8, as noted above, “before me” is literally “before my face.” In verse 11, “in Your presence” is literally “before Your face.” God before my face; I before God’s face. Further, God at my right hand keeps me secure. At God’s right hand are pleasures forevermore. The Psalmist lived with a vivid sense of God’s presence. That awareness kept him steady in all the vicissitudes of life. That sense of trust was so strong even the fear of death, of loss, was transcended. He lived with fullness of joy. He was present to the presence of God. You must sense why I would select such a scripture when thinking of Norm – He lived with God before his face – with a God-consciousness woven into his being from a child, and it made him steady, strong and confident. Like the Psalmist, God-consciousness made him a rock, gave him a place to stand and not be moved. My second text is Paul’s Letter to the Corinthians, chapter 13, verses 4-13. Often called Paul’s Hymn of Love, it is familiar and beloved. Verses 4 to 7 give love’s marks, its aspects – Kind, not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Comment is hardly needed; Love’s portrait is Norm’s portrait, is it not? That is simply who he was – Love embodied. But the passage goes on – Love never ends. And then St. Paul speaks of our human situation. What called forth this beautiful portrait of Love was the situation in the Corinthian congregation. There seemed to be a game going on regarding who possessed the greatest spiritual gifts. And Paul does not put those gifts down even though they are causing division in the congregation. Instead he says, © Grand Valley State University �Face to Face Now & Then Richard A. Rhem Page 4   …I will show you a still more excellent way. And that way is the way of Love, a way he contrasts with the various spiritual gifts that were competing with each other in Corinth. Paul writes, “Love never ends.” But that is not so for the other gifts – prophetic gifts, the gift of speaking in tongues, knowledge, prophecy – they are limited and will come to an end. But not Love. Paul compares the present state of the congregation at Corinth to that of childhood, using himself as an example. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. And then he comes to the point I want to make in regard to our beloved Norm. For now we see in a mirror dimly but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. There you have it – Face to Face Now and Then. Norm knew the Psalmist’s secret – The Lord before my face, rock solid, unmovable, steady, deep assurance. He knew as well that all he knew and experienced were partial, in process, a dim glimpse of the Ultimate Mystery. But for him all he glimpsed dimly has come into sharp focus – now he sees fully, clearly, for he sees “face to face.” Face to face – for us who grieve, in trust we see but only dimly – our “now” sees in faith. We long for the “Then” of full vision but, in the meantime, we are confident that our beloved Norm sees clearly and is lost in wonder, love and grace. Face to face in the Presence in fullness of joy. Well done, good and faithful servant! © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Funeral Service for Norman Campbell Scripture Text Psalm 16: 5-8, 11, I Corinthians 13: 4-13 Location The location of the interview First Congregational Church, Muskegon, Michigan Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-20140124 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-01-24 Title A name given to the resource Face to Face, Now and Then Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on January 24, 2014 entitled "Face to Face, Now and Then", on the occasion of Funeral Service for Norman Campbell, at First Congregational Church, Muskegon, Michigan. Scripture references: Psalm 16: 5-8, 11, I Corinthians 13: 4-13. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Funeral Love Presence of God Trust