294 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5aef2875694ad811a80c7336baaf4819.mp3 fa9dd2db6b0dae372ad9a1f76da08273 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Epiphany V Scripture Text Ephesians 1:17-19 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19950219 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1995-02-09 Title A name given to the resource Epiphany Eyes Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on February 9, 1995 entitled "Epiphany Eyes", on the occasion of Epiphany V, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Ephesians 1:17-19. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a89dd6b819e6b8b148eb23f2c8c55c21.pdf f1dc026ad90ccd9489f0c97bc1fb7194 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Epistolae [folium 2] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_002Saxoferrato1490 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ambrose, Saint, Bishop of Milan, -397 Description An account of the resource One leaf of Epistolae by S. Ambrosius, with additions by Georgius Cribellus. Printed in Milan by Leonardus Pachel on December 18, 1490. [GW 1600; ISTC ia00552000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Milan : Leonardus Pachel Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Ambrose, Saint, Bishop of Milan, -397 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1490 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cribellus, Georgius (additions) Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c172a0d7ab595ab2dc050796a1c71bbe.pdf 3f36f03515174f82e0929d6c5aa1c1c5 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Epistolae [folium 8] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_008Hieronymus1497 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hieronymus Description An account of the resource One leaf of Epistolae by Hieronymus. Printed in Ferrara by Laurentius de Rubeis, de Valentia, in 1497. Illustrated with woodcuts. [GW 12437; ISTC ih00178000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Ferrara: Laurentius de Rubeis, de Valentia Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Woodcuts 1490-1500 Hieronymus Language A language of the resource it Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1497 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/16fdeb2f1a968dccc46e6a1483993ba8.pdf 892b5c528aee975df9b29b726931c3b7 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Epistolae [folium 90] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_090Hieronymus1497 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hieronymous Description An account of the resource One leaf of Epistolae by Hieronymus and edited by Theodorus Laelius. Printed in Basel by Nicolaus Kesler on February 28, 1497. [GW 12436; ISTC ih00176000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Basel: Nicolaus Kesler Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1497 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Laelius, Theodorus (editor) Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/73c5b00d46f914a41bc9bfb004d91063.pdf a2ee66c9efa6e7ea03aaef099c4d3624 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Epitomata, seu Reparationes totius philosophiae naturalis Aristotelis [folium 169] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_169Gerardus1496 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerardus, de Hardewyck Description An account of the resource One leaf from Epitomata, seu Reparationes totius philosophiae naturalis Aristotelis, by Gerardus de Harderwyck. Printed in Cologne by Heinrich Quentell on February 29, 1496. [GW 10674; ISTC ig00168000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Cologne: Heinrich Quentell Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1496 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fad0c798313d1d19ba3caecf7eed50db.pdf 01f7a20f9aa8557a7b912086447f8cde PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Eposizione del Credo [folium 5] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_005Calvalca1489 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cavalca, Domenico, -1342 Description An account of the resource One leaf of Eposizione del Credo by Domenico Cavalca. Printed in Venice by Peregrinus de Pasqualibus in 1489. [GW 6398; ISTC ic00330000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Venice: Peregrinus de Pasqualbus Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Cavalca, Domenico, -1342 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1489 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cadde29ca7360d3146b7c7ce0f3695dc.m4v 3d91b48e3274fd7e005385e46ce47d3d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a75a77979ef08581d9a3df824b4d2289.pdf 45637a8940b8b46d143df5da9e25bd9e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Stuart Eppinga World War II 39 minutes 20 seconds (00:00:18) Early Life -Parents were immigrants from the Netherlands -Fell in love in the Netherlands -Father wanted to move to the U.S., mother did not -Made a compromise: he would go and get established, she would follow -Father came to Detroit, found work as a carpenter, and made a lot of money -Stuart had a brother that was eight years older -Mother died giving birth to Stuart -He weighed less than three pounds -Small enough to fit in a cigar box -Father found a nurse that spoke Dutch -They eventually married and she became Stuart's stepmother -Older brother, Jacob, was born in the United States -Became a pastor and worked at a Christian Reformed Church in Grand Rapids -Did that for thirty years -Step mother was excellent -Born on June 17, 1925 -Grew up in Detroit -Went to a Christian school for the first eight grades -Went to Southeastern High School in Detroit -Taught there after the war -Graduated in 1943 -Shortly after graduating got drafted (00:03:54) Life after the War Pt. 1 -Used the GI Bill after the war to go to college -Attended Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan -Wanted to stay close to his family and close to his wife-to-be (00:04:39) Getting Drafted -Got drafted into the Navy in 1943 -Reported for a physical during the draft process -After being deemed fit for service men were assigned to a branch of the service -The soldier giving out assignments would ask them what they wanted -Then he gave them whatever he felt like giving them -When Stuart got up to the soldier he said to give him whatever -Happy being assigned to the Navy -Loved being in the water, so it felt like a good fit (00:06:03) Basic Training -Sent to Camp Peary, Virginia for basic training �-Got trained by a Marine, and the Marines hated the Navy personnel -He will never forget his arrival at Camp Peary -Got off the train and saw hundreds of men from all over the country going to the camp -Enjoyed basic training -Liked being outside and doing exercise -Enjoyed the marches, the discipline, and getting up early -Had no trouble adjusting to the military -Remembers two men being discharged -One man was young, recently married, and was basically having a nervous breakdown -The other man got discharged due to having a bad back -Trained with rifles -Received gas training -Went into a building filled with mustard gas, wearing a gas mask -Ordered to remove their gas masks then the doors were opened to go outside -Crawled on an infiltration course -Crawling under barbed wire while a machie gun was fired over his head -Understood why they were forced to do what they were forced to do -It was the best physical shape he was ever in -There were accidents in basic training and men died -Remembers men panicking on the infiltration course, standing up, and getting shot (00:10:44) Stationed in Bermuda -Given a ten day leave after basic training to visit home -Reported to Norfolk, Virginia -Sent down to Bermuda -Most likely assigned to Naval Air Station Bermuda Annex -Leased to the United States by the United Kingdom -His duty in Bermuda was to help with the maintenance of the base -Base was home to PBY-3 seaplanes -Went on a few anti-submarine patrols with them -Got to see convoys sailing for Europe and Africa -Saw troopships surrounded by destroyers and destroyer-escorts -Could see the beautiful coral reef around Bermuda -Looking for U-Boats in the Gulf of Mexico and near the U.S. -Present for the capture of U-505 in June 1944 -U-Boat now at Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago -Remembers six Italian submarines coming into their port to surrender -Talked with some of the Italian sailors -Learned that they had been attacking German U-Boats -They were disillusioned with Mussolini's incompetent leadership -The submarines were from World War I -About thirty sailors per submarine -He got along well with the Italian prisoners of war �-For a while he ran a boiler that turned salt water into fresh water -Worked for the Welfare and Recreation Department -Enjoyed that duty because he enjoyed sports -Ran the sports program -Organizing basketball, baseball, and pool games -Wanted to go where the action was -Applied for the Underwater Demolition Teams (precursor to the Navy SEALs) -Never got accepted, and in retrospect is happy he didn't -Stationed on Bermuda for eighteen months (00:15:47) Stationed in Guam -Requested a transfer after eighteen months on Bermuda -Sent to Davisville, Rhode Island then sent to Norfolk, Virginia -Assigned to a ship in Norfolk that would take him to Guam -Sailed from Virginia to the Panama Canal to Hawaii to Guam -Lived in a tent on Guam as opposed to a barracks like he had on Bermuda -There were still Japanese troops on Guam when he was there -On Guam when Japan surrendered -On Guam he was assigned to guard a work detail of Japanese prisoners of war -Assigned them work and guarded them -Had them digging ditches and removing rocks to keep them busy -Never turned his back on them for fear they would rebel and kill him -The Japanese believed they should have died fighting -Food wasn't great on Guam, but it wasn't that good anywhere -Ate a lot of chipped beef (nicknamed "shit on a shingle") -It wasn't very substantial food -Didn't lose any weight, but didn't gain any weight either (00:18:42) End of the War & Coming Home Pt. 1 -At the end of the war he had enough points to go home -Needed eighty five points to go home -Points assigned based on length of service, rank, combat, and dependents -He was urged to volunteer for occupation duty in Japan, but he declined -Aircraft carrier USS Enterprise stopped in Guam -He boarded it and took it back to the U.S. -Attended a Bible study on the ship -Got involved in a singing quartet that sang every night on the deck of the ship -They wanted him to stay on the ship as a singer, but he declined -Sailed through the Panama Canal and through the Caribbean Sea up to Virginia -Took thirty five days to sail from Guam to Virginia (00:20:47) Reassignment to Guam-Train Ride -When he went from Davisville to Norfolk he took a train -He was assigned to the last car, but got called first for dinner -It was great food -So after he ate he moved up to the fifth car, and so on, so he could get six meals (00:21:50) Visiting New York and Hawaii �-When he left Bermuda he sailed up to New York and disembarked at Pier 92 in New York City -Navy lost his paperwork, so he was given a day pass every day until they found it -Went into New York every day -Became the de facto tour guide for servicemen on leave -Returned to New York City in 1947 for his honeymoon -The shoe shiner at the Statue of Liberty remembered him -Got to see a lot of Hawaii when he stopped there -A lot of men went into Honolulu to get tattoos -He got to see an old friend from Detroit -Went sightseeing in an ambulance (00:24:52) Dangerous Situations -Most dangerous situation he was in was on Guam -Had to be aware of their surroundings at all times -There were still Japanese troops holding out on the island -Never knew if they would take a shot at you -There were a few incidents where a Japanese soldier fired a few shots at them -En route to Bermuda they had to zig-zag to avoid getting attacked by a U-Boat -Went swimming in shark infested waters (00:26:30) End of the War & Coming Home Pt. 2 -Stationed on Guam for six months before going home -Usually had the same audience every night when he sang on the Enterprise (00:26:59) Visiting Richmond, Davisville, and New York City -Got to see parts of Richmond, Virginia -In Davisville he met some Dutch marines -Talked with them -Learned they had fought the Germans as part of the Dutch Resistance -Receiving training in the U.S. to go fight the Japanese in the Dutch East Indies -Became friends with one of the Dutch Marines -Took him to see New York City -They got free tickets to everything and free transportation back to base -He survived the war and they are still friends -Write to each other at Christmas -Stuart and his wife visited the man in the Netherlands -The man came to visit Stuart and his wife in Detroit (00:29:49) Downtime & Contact with Home -Saw a few USO Shows -Had a few outdoor theatres to watch movies -Swam and snorkelled in Bermuda -Wrote a lot of letters home -Wrote to his parents and to his girlfriend -Took a while to receive mail (00:31:42) Officers & Other Branches of the Service �-Noticed that officers in the Navy were arrogant -Didn't see that as much in the Army -Definitely didn't see that in the Army Air Force -Army Air Force also had the best facilities because it was still so new at the time -Marines got into the fighting first -Glad he didn't wind up in the Marines -Had friends and relatives in the Marines who got killed in action (00:33:03) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 -Feels that his time in the Navy was a very good thing -Had no idea what he wanted to do with his life -Navy gave him the direction and discipline he needed (00:33:26) Life after the War Pt. 2 -Taught at Southeastern High School in Detroit -Taught music there for twenty years -Worked as a counselor for thirteen years -Encouraged a lot of boys and girls to enlist in the military -They had no future in Detroit and no direction in life -Had a lot of them come back and thank him for that advice -Travelled a lot after the war -Navy provided them with quarters when he and his wife visited Bermuda -Wife really enjoyed that trip -Visited in the late 1970s (00:35:22) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -Helped him mature -Believes that there should still be a draft -At least one year of service -Feels that it would provide discipline and direction -Especially beneficial for people coming from poverty or broken homes -Still corresponds with a good friend that he met in Bermuda (00:37:37) Life after the War Pt. 3 -No reunions -Is not part of any veterans' group -Got married in 1947 -Had four children -One lives in California -One lives in Holland, Michigan -One lives in Alto, Michigan -One is deceased -Died after three months INTERVIEW ENDS @ 38:23 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_EppingaS1873V Title A name given to the resource Eppinga, Stuart Dirk (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-09-02 Description An account of the resource Stuart Eppinga was born in Detroit, Michigan on June 17, 1925. After graduating from high school in 1943 he was drafted into the Navy. He received basic training at Camp Peary, Virginia and got assigned to Naval Air Station Bermuda Annex, Bermuda where he helped with maintenance, went on anti-submarine patrols in PBY-3s, and witnessed the capture of six Italian submarines and one German submarine. After eighteen months he requested reassignment and was sent to Guam. On Guam he oversaw Japanese prisoners of war being used for work, and was stationed there for six months. At the end of the war he had enough points to go home and returned to the U.S. by way of the USS Enterprise. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Eppinga, Stuart Dirk Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Deb (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aafebb77fe93f5de36347e89f0cdbb88.pdf fcb7c10da5ab02535a0f30ee7610be2b PDF Text Text Equalitea Wednesday March 21, 2012 Women and Gender Studies Women's Center Welcome Kathleen Underwood Tea Toast Provost Gayle Davis In Our Own Words: A Journal About Women Jo Ann Wassenaar "Aeromancy" - Patricia Clark "Beautiful Ruin" - Ulandra Reynolds "All I Ask" - Shawnkeisha Stoudamire "Mommy" - Maureen Wolverton "Voices Erased" - Sara Chittenden Performance Karen Libman Scenes from Tirso De Molina's ''Antona Garcia" Student actors: Taylor Barton Genesis Loza, Alyssa Barton, Caleb Simmert, Erick Duckworth, Nick and Nicola Czyprinkski Video Marlene Kowalski-Braun Women's Center 10 year anniversary Crumpets for Conversation Co-sponsor The American Association of University Women (AAUW) Grand Rapids Chapter � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Sexuality and Gender Flyers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Rainbow Resource Center Women and Gender Studies Department Women's Commission Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity Description An account of the resource Digitized posters, flyers, event notices, and other materials relating to gender expression and sexuality at Grand Valley State University, with materials spanning from 1974 to 2019. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1974/2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digitized from collections at the Rainbow Resource Center (formerly the Milton E. Ford LGBT Resource Center), Women and Gender Studies Department, Women's Commission, and Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Gender identity Gender expression Sexual orientation Women's studies Queer theory Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09_SGF_2012_EqualiTEA.pdf Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Women's Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-21 Title A name given to the resource Equalitea Description An account of the resource Flyer listing the order of events for the Equalitea event. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource The American Association of University Women, Women and Gender Studies Subject The topic of the resource Community centers Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Women's Center Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84f387137c6f9e118eeac4fbf543d5aa.pdf 18f35af311f2276328e0b7d1b3a6172a PDF Text Text EqualiTEA Tuesday, March 26, 2013 Welcome Kathleen Underwood "That Takes Ovaries" Student Performances Brittany Dernberger "LOUDMOUTHS: a slice of the UN-Silenced Pie" Performance /Lecture, Written and adapted by Sherri Slater Anna Sanderlin as Elizabeth Gilbert Victoria Grant as Claudia Jones Beth Adkins as Azar Nafisi Crumpets for Conversation Marlene Kowalski-Braun Co-Sponsor The American Association of University Women (AAUW) Grand Rapids Chapter � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Sexuality and Gender Flyers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Rainbow Resource Center Women and Gender Studies Department Women's Commission Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity Description An account of the resource Digitized posters, flyers, event notices, and other materials relating to gender expression and sexuality at Grand Valley State University, with materials spanning from 1974 to 2019. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1974/2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digitized from collections at the Rainbow Resource Center (formerly the Milton E. Ford LGBT Resource Center), Women and Gender Studies Department, Women's Commission, and Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Gender identity Gender expression Sexual orientation Women's studies Queer theory Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-09_SGF_WGS_2013_EqualiTEA.pdf Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Women's Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-03-26 Title A name given to the resource EqualiTEA (2013) Description An account of the resource Flyer with the order of events of the day, and the lead on different sections/activities. Subject The topic of the resource Community centers Women's studies Feminism Equality Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Gayle R. Davis Center for Women and Gender Equity Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/59fb17af2da830e57d068aa918829f67.jpg 120635f792ce407587d87590c1aaed9c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. HX811 1887 .B5 1897 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0320 Title A name given to the resource Equality Description An account of the resource Binding of Equality, by Edward Bellamy, published by D. Appleton and Company, 1897. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1897 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a1301f17000ea7bbab0869b458301dd5.jpg eec9ac6283743800d714de600de05ed9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1960s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000964 Title A name given to the resource Equipment in biology lab Description An account of the resource Equipment in biology lab. Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6098b4d184c14f8492ab8b17ae0500d9.jpg c8dceb69c65c49f8718b5d92902d618f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Ochs collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ochs, James W. Description An account of the resource Collection includes a photo album of images taken by Ochs, 16 photos taken by the Army Signal Corps of the 26th Infantry Division, and document his tour of duty in France with the 26th Division, friends he acquired in France, and his leisure time activities Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942/1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/482">James W. Ochs World War II collection (RHC-55)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 United States. Army France Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-55 Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-55_JWO007 Title A name given to the resource Equipment inspection Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military United States. Army. Signal Photo Company, 166th United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th Soldiers Military life Photographs Description An account of the resource Equipment inspection at the 26th Infantry Division on US base, 1944. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ochs, James W. United States. Army Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1944 Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived James W. Ochs WWII collection, RHC-55 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74d526399e875efdb97ba1af869fcc58.jpg f6775670139f72f2c592d28fbabbd0da Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ErardGlen Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Erard, Glen Description An account of the resource Glen Erard, Social Work Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0e57a9a7396f47cd86ce8cd3670e6a20.pdf 1e71f70cec17319ceac79fc262ef0195 PDF Text Text MINISTERIE VAN BUITENLANDSE ZAK EN Den Heer Pieter Terma.at. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is honoured to present a sroo:U momento in the form of an Erasmus medallion to the Allied War Veterans who are visiting the NetluJrlands in 1984 to commemorate the allied invasion of Europe and the fighting in the Netherlands forty years ago. Erasmus is believed to have been born in Rotterdam in 1466. The fanr:Jus phiwsopher ws renoi.med as tluJ most scholarly humanist of his time. The Erasmus University of Rotterdam is named after him. He was the author of many works and regularly wielded his pen in the service of peace. The Latin te:r:t on the reverse of tluJ medallion translates as follows: "Constancy is not aways to say the same thing, but always to persist in tluJ same thing". �MINISTERIE VAN BUITENLANDSE ZAKEN Mevrouw A.B.Termaat..Schuurman. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is honoured to present a small memento in the fo11m of an Erasmus medallion to the Allied War Veterans who are visiting the Netherlands in 1984 to aommemorate the allied invasion of Europe and the fighting in the Netherlands forty years ago. Erasmus is believed to have been born in Rotterdam in 1466. The famous philosopher was renozim.ed as the most saholarly hwnanist of his time. The Erasmus University of Rotterdam is named after him. He was the author of many works and regularly wielded his pen in the serviae of peaae. The Latin text on the reverse of the medallion translates as follows: "Constanay is not always to say the same thing 3 but always to persist in the same thing". �N3>t'</Z 3SONV1N3.lln8 NVJ\ 311:J31SINlll'J Aan den Heer en Mevrouw P. f ermaat � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_AWD_NL-Foreign-Ministry-Erasmus-medallion Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs Title A name given to the resource Erasmus Medallion letter Description An account of the resource Letters to Pieter and Adriana Termaat about the presentation of the Erasmus medallion to Allied War Veterans. Subject The topic of the resource Erasmus Prize Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c422534f237ade2dd5d74d9641b49622.jpg 0b1d34d8c6e916bb1ac893668c565936 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context EreronTeresa Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Ereron, Teresa Description An account of the resource Teresa Ereron Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/911d0ad556cf6140e1bf015c44b0d375.pdf 6e05c579dfb1767be70f4aee018b6c16 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Erica Huggins Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 3/13/2013 Runtime: 01:24:45 Biography and Description Oral history of Erica Huggins, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on March 13, 2013 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript JOSE JIMINEZ: Okay, Ericka, if you could give me your name and where you were born and that? ERICKA HUGGINS: I’m Ericka Huggins. I was born Ericka Cozette Jenkins. I was born in Washington D.C. on January 5, 1948. JJ: (inaudible) Now it’s taping. It wasn’t taping. Okay, so go ahead. EH: I have three children. My oldest is my daughter, who is also the daughter of John Huggins, who was assassinated on January 17, 1969 by the FBI COINTELPRO. My older son is also the son of James Mott, one of the Lumpen, the Black Panther Party’s revolutionary singing group. And my younger son is too young to have been [00:01:00] anywhere near anybody connected with the Black Panther Party, he’s twenty-five, and he is a poet and a teacher, and very much a revolutionary from his heart outward. So, I really dedicate this interview to them. JJ: Thank you, that’s good. Now you mentioned John Huggins. Can you describe -I know he was in Los Angeles; can you describe who he is? EH: Well John Huggins was born in New Haven, Connecticut and we met at -- John and I met at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, about an hour outside of Philly. He had left the Navy and was coming back to college and I was in college [00:02:00] thinking about why I was there. Long story short, we both read about the Black Panther Party for Self Defense, that was its original name, and we decided to leave that college campus and drive across country to become a part of the Huey Newton Defense Committee and to join the Black Panther Party. 1 �And so we did. So at the end of 1968 -- no, at the end of 1967 we joined the Party, and we spent a year working with the Los Angeles chapter of the party. We visited the Oakland headquarters a few times. Our daughter was born on December 27 [00:03:00] and she was three weeks old when he was killed. He was a very compassionate man. And I think I want to say that the Black Panther Party drew lots of compassionate and kind people to it. Of course, though, we were median age nineteen or twenty, so there was a way in which we knew exactly what we were doing, and there was a way in which we didn’t know the consequences of what we were doing. We were just brave and ignorant at the same time. But John taught me a lot about serving people because his courage preceded him wherever he went. He wasn’t just courageous when it came to [00:04:00] standing up to and telling truth to power, he was also courageous in his relationships with people, and cared about people in a really deep way. So that’s who he was. He came from a family of people who worked at Yale. They were not faculty or professors, but they worked at Yale, and they were a part of a long-standing New Haven Black community. JJ: Okay, now, you say he was strong with people and courageous, but what was the conversation? Why all of the sudden you decided to go to the Black Panther Party? EH: Yes. I read Ramparts magazine and saw the picture of Huey Newton strapped to a hospital gurney with a bullet wound in his belly. And I decided that I was going to leave Lincoln University and join the Black Panther Party. And I asked John if he was coming, we were friends, and he said, “Yes.” You’re going to pause it? I 2 �think this is -- (break in recording) So my parents were similar in a way to John Huggins parents, and completely different. By that I mean that my mother was raised on a farm one of the two oldest of eleven children. They were very poor. And she finished [00:06:00] part of high school before she left the farm to come to Washington D.C. to kind of make it. She wanted a different life for herself. She met my father as she was continuing high school to get a GED -- she met my father who was just finished the eighth grade. He refused to complete high school. And she says that she fell in love with him because he was so handsome and she knew that they would make beautiful children. I was like, “Mama, that’s not a good reason to be with anybody,” because my father -- I’ll tell you in a minute more about my father. [00:07:00] My father was born and raised in Washington D.C. in a very -- not wealthy or prominent Black family, but a wellknown Black family in Washington D.C. in Northwest, near Howard University. But all of them worked government jobs. And I was telling you earlier that the Huggins’s worked at Yale all of their career, but it wasn’t at a faculty level or in education, it was serving the faculty and serving the students, both in the Yale Men’s Club, Mr. Huggins worked there, and Mrs. Huggins in the Yale library. The similarity between both our [00:08:00] parents is that both of our parents were very interested in their children having education. And the other similarity is that both sets of parents had very rebellious children. So John and I were drawn to each other because we had a similar outlook on the world. We both really cared about people and we knew that there was something wrong, there were inequities, there was an imbalance. Actually, John left the Navy before his time 3 �was up, and one of the things that was prompting him to leave is that while he was on the ship, the four little girls who were killed in the church in Birmingham, and he was in the Philippines at the time, and felt, “What the hell am I doing here? [00:09:00] I should be at home; there’s a war at home.” So by the time we met at Lincoln University, we were both thinking about freedom for Black people and other people of color in a very strong way. And I think that that’s important to know about John and I because in both instances we could see the history of Black people in the United States was the most horrific and long-standing, that so many groups of people were suffering abuse at the hands of the United States government. So, my parents encouraged me to look out for my people. My mother told me that almost every day. And as a result of that, I went to the March on Washington when I was fifteen [00:10:00] years old. By myself. And it transformed my young life. It was there at the March on Washington that I decided to serve people for the rest of my life. JJ: What did you see? EH: What I saw was thousands and thousands of Black people. I’d never seen that except when people gathered for a concert or a church conference or because something had happened. This was the best gathering of people I’d ever witness and the most diverse. People of all classes, all ages. I would say every kind of person gathered that day. And there were Latinos and Latinas there, but not very many. [00:11:00] This was 1963. There were White students there. I assumed them to be students because they were older than me but not functioning in any leadership capacity in the movement that I could tell. They 4 �seemed to be college students who came together to be there. And there were older White movement people. But it was very Black and White. I remember that distinctly because when I look back on it, where I live in California it’s not Black and White at all. Nothing is Black and White in our world actually. But it was that way then. And I think it needed to be because of the history of enslaved Africans in this country. [00:12:00] So I’m standing there with my fifteen-year-old self, by myself, looking out at the sea of people, and I found this mound of dirt kind of like the mound of dirt out there in the construction area, out of our beautiful window. And I stood on the top of that mound of dirt so that I could see all the people gathered. And I could also see their transportation. People came in pick-up trucks that looked like my grandfather’s truck that he took tobacco to sell. They came in church buses. They came in vans. They came in rickety station wagons and hoopty cars. They came on foot because many people marched to get there from parts of the metropolitan area of D.C. [00:13:00] There were people on bicycles. There were people on motorcycles, groups of people on motorcycles. There were just all kinds of people. And then there were the speakers. JJ: How did you find out about it? EH: It was the talk of the city. I don’t remember watching the news, I don’t remember hearing it on the radio, but I know that it was the talk of the city, and my mother was talking about it. And I don’t remember friends at school talking about it. I was very singular in that way. My peers did not seem interested. I’ve reflected a lot on why I went by myself that day. I’m glad I did because I was meant to 5 �experience this inner commitment that I experienced that day. [00:14:00] My mother talked -- when I asked her about the March on Washington and what it was for, after she explained that it was happening, she told me that Black people were gathering together to put -- to make everyone aware that, as she called us, Negros couldn’t be treated in the awful way that they’d been treated for hundreds of years, and that it had to stop. No more Jim Crow. And I knew what she meant. Although I wasn’t learning much about history in school, I learned a lot from my mother. Not details, not dates, not names, but the flow of history. Because she grew up in a very violently segregated South with the Ku Klux Klan absolutely active. So she was my [00:15:00] go-to about the Negro people. JJ: What do you mean, she saw them, the Ku Klux Klan? EH: Oh yeah. They burned crosses on peoples’ lawns, they shot up peoples’ houses, they were crazy. You know, my mother’s 94 and there are times -- there have been times in her life when she was in her 80s. She has no short-term memory anymore, so she’s absolutely happy, doesn’t remember the horrible things, but she was afraid to look a White person in the eye because of her training. She was so proud that I could hang out with everybody and that I wasn’t afraid of anyone. She taught me not to be afraid and to stand up. But I didn’t realize until I talked to her later in [00:16:00] my life that her let’s say socialization, her social training was such that you whispered around White people. You didn’t have to ask their permission anymore, but there was a subtle way in which she always did. But she really wanted life different for her children and her grandchildren, and I think that life is different. So when I had questions, and I always had lots of 6 �them, “Why did the people on Capitol Hill live with such wealth, and why did the people in South East live in such conditions of poverty? Why are there housing projects? Why is it that people have to sleep in their cars? Why is that the White House is so big and beautiful?” I remember asking her one day, “Can’t some of the people from the housing projects [00:17:00] live in the White House? They’ve got lots of space.” But I didn’t understand how it all worked, and she helped me to understand that no, Ericka, Negros can’t live in the White House. And so, of course, when Barack Obama became president, she was absolutely convinced that 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue would never be the same again. There was nothing in her history or in her present experience that would lead her to believe that an African American man could become President of the United States. She did her best with her limited knowledge to let me know that there was a way that I could help to change things. She said, “You’re smart. You ask a lot of questions. You keep [00:18:00] asking those questions, maybe we’ll get some answers.” And so when I went to her to say, “Okay, I’m going to the March on Washington.” And she said, “No, you’re not.” I said, “Yes, I am. I’m getting right on the bus. I’m going to go. It’s just two buses away.” She said, “No, something could happen to you.” I said, “Something could happen to me anywhere.” I said, “You’re the one who told me I should help the Negro people.” Maybe she said colored people. (laughs) I can’t remember. Both of those terms were annoying to me. She said, “Yes, I asked you help them, but I didn’t ask you to put yourself out there in front. Not you. Not my daughter. Go ask your father.” And I told him I was going, I didn’t ask him, and that was really different 7 �because I had to always ask my father’s [00:19:00] permission for any and everything. I just told him I was going. I had such conviction about it. I know now why I did. It was where I was meant to be on that day in that time in my life. And so against my parents’ wishes -- my father didn’t want me to go either -- I went. I got on the bus, I asked if I could take my brother and sister, who were younger than me, and they said no, and I said, “I’ll be back. I’ll be fine. I know the bus route.” And what I didn’t say is how many police were out there that day. And because of where I grew up, I was used to the police, sort of like, it was occupied territory where I lived in Southeast Washington. So I was used to seeing the police around, but this was a new way of seeing them. I knew that they were there not to protect the people who were gathered, but in case [00:20:00] the people who had gathered were going to do something to harm property, D.C., I don’t know, I couldn’t figure it out. I didn’t have any systemic understanding at that time, although I had some ideas. So I listened to all of the speeches, and there were many of them, and I can’t really remember the speeches. But there is one thing that I do remember and it kind of locked -- it gelled for me the sense that I must serve people. Two of my favorite people, because they were always on TV, and I also knew from my mother that they always spoke up on behalf of Black people and people of color in general, Harry Belafonte, and Lena Horne were there, and they both spoke. I don’t remember except that they were -- [00:21:00] I just loved them. I loved seeing them there. I loved seeing “stars,” as my mother called them, standing up for Black people. That just did something for me. More than all of the movement leaders, these 8 �two stood out to me. And the most poignant moment for me was Lena Horne said some words, I don’t remember what they were, but then she sung the word, “Freedom.” She just sung it. And the word took so long to exit her being and into the air and people became really quiet as it landed on their ears, and of course it entered my heart. Just that word: “Freedom.” And it was right at that moment of the word ringing out like that, that I said, “This is it. This is [00:22:00] what I have to do. I have to fight for freedom.” And little did I know what form it would take and what challenges I would face. JJ: What about your dad? EH: Oh yeah, I said I was going to tell you more. So my father was a Washingtonian. Very handsome, just like my mother said. Very brilliant. But he’d given up on life after World War -- during World War II when he was in the Army he started to drink and came back from the war an alcoholic. He was an abusive alcoholic. So when I say that I had to ask his permission for everything, I really meant it, because I never knew which way was up. [00:23:00] He wasn’t the kind of alcoholic who would drink and then fall asleep. He beat me, he beat my mother, we broke up fights. My sister, my brother, and I broke up fights between the two of them. That’s how it was. We didn’t think it was normal for families to live like that, but we didn’t feel like we had any ability to change it. And that was another thing that prompted me -- there were two prompts that come out of living with my father. One was I don’t want to be like my father. I don’t want to be an alcoholic is what I mean. I wanted to be an artist like him. I wanted to be able to open my mouth and sing like he could. I found out after he died that he was a poet also, 9 �and I’m a poet. [00:24:00] I didn’t want to abuse my children or whoever I loved. And I think I already knew by that time that I loved both -- that I could fall in love with both men and women. That wasn’t something that I could share with my Christian mother and my unpredictable father. But I also knew that I didn’t want to give up on life. That I wanted to -- if I was challenged, I wanted to meet the challenge, face it head-on, and then move through it. So, this is important to know because later, after John was killed -- he never got to meet John. My mother didn’t meet John either, which is sad. There wasn’t time. But after John was killed, [00:25:00] three months later, I was arrested in New Haven, Connecticut for conspiracy charges. A bunch of charges, but conspiracy to commit murder was the charge that stuck. JJ: Can you explain what that was about? EH: I will. But my father never came to visit me in prison. Not because he was mean, he couldn’t face it. He lived in a lot of denial. He just couldn’t face it. So, why was I in prison in New Haven, Connecticut? JJ: And that was your first arrest, that was -- EH: Oh, that was the second -- that was the third time I was arrested. The first-time: arbitrary arrest. And there were other instances where we were routinely -- Party members were routinely [00:26:00] stopped and searched, and that happened lots of times. The second time that I was arrested was the day that John and Alprentice “Bunchy” Carter were killed. The police just picked us up, charged us with malicious mischief, and put us all in jail. And that was because they didn’t want the plan that they’d hatched with the FBI to get exposed because we 10 �already knew. I don’t want to say that we had definite knowledge, but we knew that the FBI was involved, just like we knew that our phones were bugged, we knew that we were followed at night, and we knew that the people following us were not the police. The police followed us and stopped us. JJ: How did you know? I mean -- EH: It’s like sixth sense. However, [00:27:00] we knew that -- at first, I thought these are detectives working with the Los Angeles Police Department. And then Bunchy educated us to -- JJ: You talking about the US Organization? EH: No, I’m not talking about the US Organization, I’m talking about the FBI. I’ll talk about the US Organization in a minute. Long before we had anything much to do with our communications with the US Organization, we realized that the government wanted to kill us. The US Organization couldn’t have wiretapped our phones, they didn’t leave notes on our cars, they didn’t follow us at night, they didn’t shine spotlights on us when we were getting ready to leave the Party office. That was the FBI. And LAPD [00:28:00] was such a wonderful tool for the FBI because they were so backward, ignorant, and overtly racist. I have friends from Texas who said that there were billboards in Los Angeles -- pardon me, in Texas saying, “Join the LAPD.” And the billboards would say all kinds of things. Who paid for this kind of advertisement, I don’t know. At any rate though, by the time John and Bunchy were killed, we knew that the government was set on killing all of us, and we knew that people wearing dashikis and bald heads, which was the [00:29:00] signature of the US Organization member’s, men and women, 11 �that they were not entirely at fault. We knew this. We knew that Black men pulled the trigger on the gun that killed John and Bunchy, but something more was happening. And I think we also had an inkling of it because we knew that one man with a gun didn’t kill Martin Luther King. We knew that one man with a gun didn’t kill Malcolm X, or John Kennedy, or Robert Kennedy. But we didn’t know what we didn’t know about until after John and Bunchy were killed or maybe even almost half a year later was the Counterintelligence Program. We didn’t have a name for it. But Bunchy made it clear to us -- [00:30:00] I will tell you this story. Bunchy was -- have you talked to anybody who ever met Alprentice “Bunchy” Carter? JJ: No, not yet. EH: Well, there’s a lot I could say. We don’t have time, but I could tell you this: That when you met him, that if you had the good fortune of meeting him, you knew immediately that you were in the presence of royalty. That was the distinct feeling I had. And I didn’t know it, but other people had the same sense. He carried himself like a king. He taught himself about African American and African history in prison. He was the head of a gang called the Slauson’s. And from prison, he politicized them. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Because the Young Lords came out of a similar [00:31:00] base. He just got the word out, “Quit killing each other. It’s time for us to uplift our people.” And so when John and I joined the Black Panther Party, Bunchy was still in prison or back in prison for a while, I don’t remember, we didn’t meet him right away. But as soon as we did, he sort of took us under his wing. He wasn’t that much older than John or me. 12 �It’s just that he had a great leadership power. I’m not saying that I didn’t, I’m not saying that John didn’t, but he was charismatic and powerful, and hundreds of young men and women, all over Los Angeles, if Bunchy said it, it was true. If Bunchy said we don’t need to be killing each other, we’re not going to kill each other. They didn’t even understand why. Bunchy said it. And that was a good beginning, wasn’t it? I’m talking like I’m having a [00:32:00] conversation with you, but I’m really not. I’m talking to the camera. So one day Bunchy came to the office that we worked out of, a building called the Black Congress. And the Black Congress was an office building that had small offices down a long hallway. And the US Organization had an office three doors from the Black Panther Party office. They were always there; we were always there. And though we teased one another, there was no animosity. What was the teasing about? They believed that culture would uplift people, we believed that the whole system of capitalism needed to be overthrown. And not just for the benefit of Black people, but all oppressed people. [00:33:00] So there wasn’t any changing the Black Panther Party’s view, there wasn’t any changing the US Organization’s view, so we teased one another. Well one day Bunchy came to the office, and the office had those little sort of cubicle spaces that had a desk and a phone, but it also had a community meeting room, and he called ahead of his arrival and said, “Tell the comrades to meet me in the community room.” And we were like “Uh-oh.” So we got there, Bunchy walked in, and we knew that something was up because he walked in with his coat slung over his shoulders and his house slippers on. In other words, he left immediately because he was always 13 �impeccably dressed, not a hair out of place, his clothes were always put together, and he would not show up [00:34:00] anywhere in slippers. He walked into that meeting room and he had papers in his hand. He often led -- by the way -- he often led our political education classes. It was with Bunchy that I first really -- I didn’t understand African and African American history in college. It was through Bunchy that I came to understand colonization and imperialism and the economy of the slave trade. So he walked in and we were all sitting there waiting for him. He said, “Comrades, see this?” And he held up those papers. And we looked and those of us sitting in the front row, I believe I was sitting with Elaine Brown and Joan Kelly, and what we saw were cartoons drawn supposedly of Ron Karenga, the head of the US Organization. And we all [00:35:00] wanted to laugh! This was not the time to laugh. But we wanted to laugh because the cartoons could not have been drawn by anybody Black. You could tell that they were made up, they were fake. And there were letters in slang trying to replicate Black street dialect, it was hilarious. But we bit our lips, we didn’t laugh, and Bunchy said, “We didn’t draw these cartoons, and we didn’t write these letters to the US Organization. Here’s what I want to say. You may not tease any members of the US Organization about their bald heads, about what African clothes they wear, or their ideology. You will not do anything but say “hello,” “good morning,” “good evening,” and keep going. We are all Black people together. We don’t have any beef [00:36:00] with the US Organization. I am on my way now to apologize for these letters and to let Ron Karenga and his organization know that not only did we not write these letters, that the FBI is 14 �writing them.” We found out later that, of course, in Oakland the Black Panther Party was receiving the same kind of letters from organizations. So there was an interest, the FBI had an interest in marketing both organizations and many others to be like enemies, and in creating conflict, and that’s what they did. I’ll never forget that day because when people say, “Oh, what happened on January [00:37:00] 17th was just a fight between the US Organization and the Black Panther Party, two rival groups.” Or some people say two rival gangs. No, it wasn’t. It was the FBI. And it was later that I found out through an FBI informant who met with me that we were right because he told me what was happening on the UCLA campus and in the local office at the FBI to set up situations that would leave the leadership of the Black Panther Party and, I would imagine, the US Organization, diminished. It’s unfortunate that people had to die and that the setup included people [00:38:00] firing at each other. But it was orchestrated by J. Edgar Hoover’s Counterintelligence Program. JJ: Has there been any information later (inaudible)? EH: Yes. About a year later The Los Angeles Times printed an article saying that there was proof that the US Organization wasn’t entirely to blame, nor was the Black Panther Party for what happened on the UCLA campus. Utilizing the student desire to find a director for the High Potential Program (it was an EOP program), the FBI just orchestrated a conflict, and used operatives [00:39:00] to carry out the conflict. So the LA Times wrote this. I don’t have the article anymore, but I used to keep it. Also this informant who met with me said that the director of the field office there in Los Angeles, near Westwood, kept saying 15 �aloud when he went back to the office that day on January 17th there was chaos. And he said that the director there kept saying over and over again, “We fucked up, we fucked up. Nobody was supposed to die.” Why would I believe an FBI informant? An operative? Because he sought me out, and with great sincerity, and a lot of guilt and sadness, he told me this story. [00:40:00] I try as much as I can to pay attention to human beings when they’re talking to me, and I believed him. I didn’t have any reason not to believe him because it really affirmed a belief I already had, that the US Organization did not do this alone. And I think that Black people are so used to fighting with one another that that’s easier to believe, that so and so pulled the trigger, and then so and so pulled his trigger, and then some people died. But, you know, the person who pulled the trigger, and my husband John Huggins, and Bunchy Carter were all pawns in some bigger game. The sad thing, and the almost idiotic thing about all of this, is that the FBI [00:41:00] and the United States government actually thought that they would kill the movement by killing leaders. That never really happened. It didn’t happen. If that were true, then movements wouldn’t continue to pop up everywhere ever so often. But it certainly didn’t stop the Los Angeles chapter of the Black Panther Party and it definitely did not stop me. JJ: Why -- I know the [US?] Organization was involved with Kwanzaa-- EH: Kwanzaa? JJ: Why did they target the Black Panther Party in Los Angeles? What were they afraid about? What were the Panthers doing that they were afraid? EH: US Organization? 16 �JJ: No, the government. The government. EH: Oh, okay. You know it’s fine if you [00:42:00] wear your cultural outfit and talk about Puerto Rican independence, right? That’s fine. You dress up and dance and sing. They’re not going to come after you. You start talking about creating an equal balance in the imbalance of wealth, that wealth needs to be redistributed, and that people shouldn’t be pushed out, shoved out, otherwise left out in the cold without food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, education? Then the government, at that time the government was really upset with that, and considered us communists -- whatever that meant to them. And [00:43:00] their narrative, their story, was that we were a threat to internal security. We were the greatest threat to internal security. Wait a minute, the Breakfast for Children Program that the Black Panther Party started was a great threat to national security. It’s because we were talking about wealth, and power, and privilege, and we were wise enough -- because of Huey Newton and Bobby Seale -- we were wise enough to know that skin color was utilized as an excuse for making it okay in the American mainstream story. “Look, they’re not intelligent, look, they’re less than human, look, they’re the descendants of slaves, it’s okay, we know what we’re doing here.” And we said “No, it’s not okay. No, [00:44:00] wealth needs to be redistributed.” And we also talked about overthrowing the government. We really didn’t, except in rhetoric, talk about killing anybody, and that was mostly, I’m sorry to say, the men of the Black Panther Party talked like that. But we continually talked about overhauling the whole system. And I remember many, many times when we spoke about changing the conditions 17 �(coughs) that create poverty. So, hope that answers that question. JJ: Were you working with some of the other groups there in Los Angeles? EH: We worked with everybody. We worked with the Socialist Workers Party, the Communist Party, we would have worked with US Organization if they -- they were a little bit sequestered. We worked with the Brown Berets when they began, [00:45:00] the labor unions, student movements. That’s why John and Bunchy were on the UCLA campus. They had both become students and had become a part of the Black Student Union, so to speak, so that they could help the students to feel empowered to have their needs met. This was at a time when Black and Brown students were just being allowed to be on UC campuses with financial aid. We worked with the Women’s Movement, the Gay Liberation Movement, the Vietnam vets, the Anti-War Movement, we worked with the Black Police Officers Association. There wasn’t any organization I can think of we did not work with, [00:46:00] unless we knew that their leadership was infiltrated by the FBI, and that was often the case. You know, organizations where they came to create chaos where there was none. And we didn’t all like each other, we didn’t agree with each other’s ideologies, but we knew that united, “a united front” as we used to say, was better than one organization working in a singular fashion. JJ: What about the case in Connecticut? What was that about? EH: Wow, that case in Connecticut was about a lot. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. There was an FBI informant, [00:47:00] George Sams -- now, the leadership of Black Panther Party didn’t know that he was an FBI informant, nor 18 �did I when I first met him. So, by this time I am twenty years old, I have a three week -- well, almost three months, give or take a few weeks, baby, and I’m a widow. And I was living in a traumatized state. I do remember that. I was sad, and when I wasn’t sad, I was withdrawn, and when I wasn’t withdrawn, I was just making it through the days. John was my best friend. He wasn’t just my husband, he was my best friend, and he’s my baby’s father. And I [00:48:00] kept doing Party work because I knew it would make me feel like I was of use. You know, when John -- when we buried John, I wanted to -- I tried actually, literally, to crawl into his grave. And I remember somebody just sort of pulling me from behind from my jacket and I kind of woke up. I couldn’t bear that he wasn’t around anymore. And so, when I met this FBI informant, George Sams, he came -- it was the first time I’d ever seen him in my life -- he came into the New Haven office of the Black Panther Party, which was, by the way, in the home of a man, Warren Kimbro, it was in his apartment. And the chapter of the Black Panther Party was started because when I went to bury John [00:49:00] and to be with his family, the members of the Yale student community and faculty, as well as members of the New Haven Black community asked me to stay and start a chapter of the Party. And so I contacted the Party’s chief of staff, David Hilliard, and I said, “Should I do this?” And he said, “Yes.” And so I did, with the help of so many people. And again, I’m in this state that’s almost -- it’s an altered state. Breastfeeding widow, right? That’s a doubly altered state. New widow, twenty years old. And in walks this strange -- [00:50:00] he was one of the strangest people I think I’d ever met to that point in my life. He walks into the Party office. 19 �He’s pushing in front of him a young man, who seemed to be maybe a year younger or older than me, I don’t know. I had never met the man before. And he’s pushing him, and I see that he, George Sams, has a gun, and he’s got it focused on the back of this young man. And he says to all of us gathered there - and I don’t remember exactly who was in the room, I distinctly remember that I was there -- he said, “This man’s name is Alex and he’s an FBI informant. And we’re going to hold him because we can’t turn him over to the police, we’re in a state of war.” This is how we talked then. All of that rhetoric. [00:51:00] I can’t say that I believed George Sams right in that moment because with the state that I was in was a certain level of cynicism and bitterness. “Well, if he’s an informant, then maybe we should hold him. Well, then the government just killed John…” Those were the kinds of thoughts I was having. The ones that I can remember. And then he sat Alex down somewhere and all of us kind of just were quiet, waiting to see what was going to happen. And George Sams, from that moment forward, kind of took over the Party office. He bossed Warren Kimbro around, he bossed me around, he treated the young -- there was -- very young women joined the Party and I want to say right here and now [00:52:00] that men in the Party didn’t always treat women in the Party as fully capable, as equal. At that time. And people were afraid of George Sams because he wielded a gun. He didn’t have any reservations about hitting someone in the head with the gun butt. He was sadistic. He enjoyed inflicting pain. How do I know that? I saw it. And that was the environment we were in and so eventually Alex Rackley was held under house arrest. He wasn’t allowed to go. He wasn’t treated like a 20 �human being. And I was there. And one night, George Sams and two other people took [00:53:00] Alex Rackley out for the first time I guess in days. It seemed like years to me. It just seemed like it was so -- such a long period of time. And I felt like I couldn’t tell anybody what was going on. I certainly wasn’t going to ring up the police and say guess what. And I didn’t tell my family, I didn’t tell John’s family. I was living in a state of fear and confusion. And you know what? There isn’t a day that goes by all these decades later that I don’t wish that I had stopped this chain of events that occurred in some way. I look back at it and I say, “Well, what could you have done?” [00:54:00] And I think of lots of things I could have done, but would it have been helpful? Would I have died in the process? Probably. But it wasn’t like a had a fear for my life actually. I didn’t feel that my life was worth that much, the state that I was in. But I held myself responsible for Alex’s death because there must have been something I could do. JJ: Even though George had the gun and all that. EH: And took him out and we know now that he had someone else -- this is the thing about George Sams, he didn’t even do it, he had someone else kill him and dump his body in the swamp. The night after Alex Rackley was taken away from that little house in New Haven, that little apartment, I was having trouble sleeping [00:55:00] so I was up. It was a warm summer night, it was May, mid-May, a very warm night. I’m sitting there holding my baby and just waiting. There was a -- I want to say I had an intuitive feeling and there was an energy in the air like something was about to happen. That’s the best way I can explain it to you. And 21 �Party members slept some of everywhere. When we came together people had little pallets on the floor, people were sleeping on the couch, I was sitting on the couch holding my baby, there were three other moms there with their children, there were people upstairs in the bedroom sleeping. We were going to just wake up, brush our teeth, and do Party work. Right? That’s how it was. The windows were all open. The door is locked, but the windows are open to let in fresh air, and all of a [00:56:00] sudden I hear rapid footsteps coming and I knew without a doubt it was the police. Not the FBI, the police. And I could see them coming up the -- there was a little walkway before you got to the apartment door and I could see them running to come, and they knocked the door in, and they came in with their guns pointed. It felt like there were a thousand of them, but there probably were in reality ten or fifteen, and they woke up -- they ran over the women sleeping on the floor, and startled and awakened them, so we have women screaming, you have babies crying, and I’m sitting there just waiting… It's funny how an incident so long ago can be absolutely gone from memory [00:57:00] and in the same time frame an incident so long ago could be absolutely indelible, every second of it, in your brain, and I can remember that night so distinctly. They began overturning -- there were cannisters in the kitchen because Warren had lived in that apartment with his wife before she left him. And so there were flour cannisters, and sugar cannisters, and it was a real little kitchen. And they were throwing flour and sugar everywhere looking for drugs, they said. They were turning over everything they could. It was chaos. And then within about -it seemed like a really long time, but I know it wasn’t, these two suited men came 22 �in, and I knew they were FBI. And they looked directly at me and they said, “Good [00:58:00] evening, Huggins. Come with us.” And I didn’t move. And they said, “Come upstairs with us.” So one of the women who wasn’t so afraid took my daughter and held her for me and I walked up the -- it was a two-floor apartment and I walked upstairs with these men. And, you know, good guy, bad guy. That was the good cop, bad cop thing. To get -- I think they thought they were going to get some information from me, and they asked me what had happened, and I didn’t respond, and they asked me again, and I didn’t respond, and they asked me again and I didn’t respond. And the bad guy leaned forward to me and he said, “We’re going to see burn in the chair, Huggins!” And I said, “Are you done now?” [00:59:00] And he said, “Yes,” and I went downstairs and got my daughter. I held her and I waited. I was so sad… There was a very kind police officer who came to where I was sitting. And he’s an African American police officer and he said, “Miss Huggins?” And I said, “Yes?” He said, “I just want to say that I’m so sorry for your loss. I knew the Huggins family, New Haven’s not a big Black community, but I knew them. I am so sorry and I’m so sorry for tonight.” [01:00:00] And he indicated without words that he was doing what he was told to do, come in and tear up the office, and ransack, and scare people. We were all taken off to jail. There were fourteen of us. Then Bobby Seale, who was not staying in that apartment at all, but who was in town to speak at Yale, was also arrested. So the next morning I was in prison with four other women, and Bobby Seale, and a few other men were arrested and put in prison. Long story short, the people who stayed on trial were myself and Bobby, the 23 �minor [01:01:00] women, meaning they were under eighteen years old were released, and the two people who were accused of actually firing the gun were tried separately. George Sams’ the state’s witness. JJ: So you never got out on bond or anything like that? EH: No, there was no -- there was no bail for that. It was a capital offense. First we were arrested for kidnapping, murder in the first degree, conspiracy with the intent to commit murder, and binding, meaning tying someone up, restraining them, with the intent to commit a crime. It was an ancient law that had been on the Connecticut law books since the 1800s. They dropped that one immediately. They dropped murder one for Bobby and I. [01:02:00] Because they knew full well we didn’t murder anybody. They said that we conspired to have Alex murdered and that Bobby ordered that he be murdered. Bobby did not do any such thing and neither did I. But the charge that stuck, all the other charges were dropped against us, conspiracy with the intent to commit murder. And once again there was no bail. And not only was there no bail, Bobby was sequestered from the rest of the men in the inmate population, and when I was arrested with four other women, we were sequestered from the main inmate population as well. And then when those women were released, I was by myself. There was a period of time when I was in solitary confinement as well. And then the two men who were accused of killing Alex Rackley, and Warren Kimbro was one of them, Lonnie [01:03:00] McLucas, the other, I don’t remember the name of the prison they were in. It was a men’s prison in Connecticut, but they were not anywhere near Bobby Seale. And so we were fourteen months awaiting trial with motions 24 �from time to time, no bail, and six months on trial. JJ: And what came in the trial, what -- ? EH: What came out was that -- JJ: Fourteen months is a long time to be -- EH: I know. New Haven -- well, New England is a very sort of -- at the time was very rigid. What is the word I’m searching -- I’m searching for a word -- it was a very conservative [01:04:00] culture, New England. And so, this was the first trial of any kind in New Haven like this that wasn’t just a hit and run or an outright murder. This was the Black Panther Party. And Yale got very involved. As a matter of fact you might know that President Kingman Brewster came out on behalf of Bobby and I and got shit for it. He almost got fired because he supported us. People marched on the New Haven green in the thousands to free Bobby, free Ericka. And you know, the whole time I never really felt like I deserved any of that attention because I felt responsible for Alex’s death. I don’t think [01:05:00] Bobby Seale ever felt responsible for Alex’s death. Why should he have? He didn’t do a thing. But I was there in that house and though I didn’t harm him directly, I did not stop it, and I didn’t say to George Sams, “You are the craziest butthole I have ever met in my life, and no, you shouldn’t pour boiling water on this man.” I acquiesced, so therefore I felt I was a part of it. So in the trial all of this was brought up to make me seem like -- not even Bobby -- but I was demonized. Now that I’m talking to you about it I can see something that hadn’t really dawned on me before, that it was easier to demonize, to make the jury believe [01:06:00] that it was so wrong for a woman to be doing anything of 25 �this kind. Actually I took the stand on my behalf because it was important that I do so because if New England and New Haven were very conservative, imagine their views about women in leadership of a revolutionary organization. Which in New Haven, one of the reasons why it took so long to pick the jury, trial was six months, it took three months to pick the jury, and the reason why was there was so much bias. We were called a militant hate group, we were called a gang of thugs, all of this. So here I am this woman who supposedly orchestrated the murder of this young man, so the DA was bent on demonizing me. That was the easiest way to get me [01:07:00] and Bobby because they couldn’t say that Bobby was there. They could say that I was there and I was at fault. And I believed it. I didn’t believe I had killed anybody, but I believed the demonization. So what came out is that this man -JJ: What do you mean that you believed the -- EH: I believed what was being said about me. I believed it. Just like we believe in slavery -- I’m talking about internalized oppression. In slavery we believed that we were after a while, after maybe the first fifty or so years, we believed that we weren’t worthy as human beings. So I began to believe it because it’s what I heard all the time. My lawyers didn’t tell me that. My friends [01:08:00] didn’t tell me that. But there was something in me that believed it. Because I so believed that I should have been able to know better, to not co-sign George Sams. JJ: So did you feel you were going to lose the case? EH: M-mm. [No.] JJ: You never felt -- 26 �EH: I didn’t think about it like that. I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life in prison. JJ: That’s what I mean. EH: But I didn’t feel like we were losing. I wasn’t in that kind of state, lose or win. JJ: You thought you were going to be (inaudible). EH: I felt like they’re going to find a way to keep me here. And so what I did was I taught myself to meditate. That’s how I got through it and began to feel a sense of myself again. Eventually the jury hung when it came time [01:09:00] for a jury deliberation. The judge sent them back, “No, we need a verdict.” They hung again. He declared a mistrial and set us free. And he said when he did it, I wish I had it in writing, he said something like, “The Connecticut taxpayers have paid enough for this trial. There’s no evidence against these defendants, they’re free to go.” And there really wasn’t any evidence. There was a tape admitted. I don’t know if it got heard in the courtroom or was admitted as a transcript, I can’t remember. But it was of George Sams trying to get Alex Rackley to admit that he was [01:10:00] an informant. And my voice is on the tape. So that was why -that was one reason why they thought that there was a case against me and it was also another reason why I believed that I was responsible for this young man’s death. So every day I think of him. Every day I send blessings to his family because I know that I was not then in the state where I could have been helpful to anybody, not even to myself. JJ: Could you mention the Party work? What do you mean -- what was the chapter doing there [01:11:00] at the time? 27 �EH: We started a breakfast program, a clinic, we were helping people with cases of police brutality. It was only a short time that I had been there. I got there in January, right after John’s death. JJ: So you had a breakfast program and a -- EH: And a clinic. JJ: But how many kids were attending at that time? EH: I don’t remember. A lot of them though. And the clinic was named after John Huggins. So it was January to May, so that’s a relatively short time. I guess I -- JJ: What section of town that you were -- ? EH: The Hill area. JJ: It was called the Hill? EH: Yeah, and the Hill is just like any other barrio or ghetto in any other city. JJ: So you were picking barrios or ghettos? EH: Oh yeah, we wanted to go where the people were in most need. That’s where the Black Panther Party always went. [01:12:00] The Party office in Oakland, the first office in Oakland, was in West Oakland, which is really poor. Well the people are living in conditions of poverty. The schools, the health, the housing, the food is substandard. JJ: So you just wanted to give away food or? EH: Well, the breakfast program did give away food, they gave breakfast, and sometimes lunch. But what were also doing is awakening people to their own power. That yes, there’s a breakfast program, yes, there’s a clinic, but you have the power to change your destiny. You don’t have to live in these conditions. 28 �You can speak up; you can ask for more. And New Haven is a very rich immigrant community as well. I didn’t know that until I was there [01:13:00] then. And it’s even more so now but it was like African Americans, immigrant Italians, immigrant Irish, Haitian, Dominican, Puerto Rican, and African. And wherever these groups of people were, there was poverty! But instead of working together they were pitted against each other for whatever little poverty program crumbs fell off the cake plate. And so we tried to help people the same thing we did wherever we were -- the Black Panther Party did the same thing everywhere because the Ten Point Program was about clothing, food, shelter, education, the end to police brutality, justice, peace. Are we out of time? [01:14:00] JJ: I think we were just when we’re getting into the program. (break in recording) EH: (cellphone ringing) There’s another whole room right there that’s back -- you can close the door in the bathroom. I’m just directing her all around your apartment. (laughs) I did come to terms with this feeling of unworthiness. I did recognize through my practice of meditation in prison and since then -- I meditate every day -- that it’s important for us to recognize our mistakes and keep moving. [01:15:00] It’s important to have love for ourselves, not just for “the people.” We’re part of the people! And I was thinking back to that period of time when I meditated in prison and I would do so every day. I would just sit -- I didn’t know what I was doing, nobody taught me. I just read a little book that said if you sit quietly and notice your breath, your mind will become calm. I’m glad I thought that that was possible for me, because that’s what happened. It isn’t that my thoughts stop, and like magic I was immediately in a thought-free state or quiet, 29 �it’s just that the thoughts had less power over me. Those emotions of sadness, [01:16:00] and the feeling of unworthiness, and “I-shoulda-woulda-coulda,” kind of dissipated, and I was able to just be right in the present moment. As a result of my practice of meditation, I started an in-prison organization called Sister Love. It was just a way for women in the prison to connect with one another and support one another rather than waiting on the pimp who was supposed to bail them out or the husband that had beat them or to be so terribly sad because they were separated from their children, just like me. I could only see my daughter for an hour once a week on Saturday. The way Sister Love worked, because it couldn’t be an overt political organization, that’s why it had that sweet-sounding little name, is that the [17:00:00] prison allowed us to do each other’s hair. Well, I’m glad they did. Because what they didn’t know that we knew, it was primarily Black and Puerto Rican women, is that around the doing of hair, a lot of conversation can happen, and a lot of transformative education occurs. So every -- once a week we would get together and we would do each other’s hair and we would end up talking about our communities. And it was quiet, and it was under the -- it was beneath the radar of the guards, the prison guards, and the prison authorities. But we actually started an organization in the prison that one of the things we did was to help women who had been brought in addicted to heroin, we would smuggle things to them so they wouldn’t have to kick cold, which is horrific. It’s just horrific to [01:18:00] kick that kind of habit without any medication and no support, which is what the prison did. We watched women die in there. And so we did that. What I’m saying to you is, and what I would like 30 �anyone who uses this interview to help them in their studies, or in their life, or in their activism, it is important to merge spiritual practice and social justice. One without the other doesn’t work. I’m not talking about religion. I’m talking about some kind of practice that uplifts your spirit because activism will burn you out for sure if you don’t have something that holds you from the inside out. JJ: And a final thing, you did some other programs, too right, the liberation school later? [01:19:00] EH: Oh yeah, my life is a series of… doing! (laughs) The Oakland Community School was by far one of the most outstanding things I’ve ever participated in in my life. And someday I’ll write a book about it. When I first was released from prison and after a month collected my daughter and moved back to Oakland, I became one of the teachers, a writing teacher, and then a creative writing teacher, at the Oakland Community School. It was called the Intercommunal Youth Institute at the time because of Huey’s theory of a boundaryless, community-based world. And it was named after Sam Napier, who was the Party newspaper’s distribution manager, who was killed [01:20:00] once again in one of those set-ups that was based in this effort of the COINTELPRO. I’m not talking about who actually pulled the trigger, I’m talking about what was at the foundation of it. Anyway, so then one of the grandmothers of one of the students said why don’t we have -rather than having this big wonderful house, it’s wonderful, to educate the children, why don’t we have a dedicated school building. She said this to Huey. And he formed the Educational Opportunities Corporation to buy a school building, and we opened in the school year 1973-1974 as the Oakland 31 �Community School. And I became the director because the prior director left the Party. And it was student-centered, community-based, tuition-free, [01:21:00] and really taught children how to think. Not what to think, how to think. There were a hundred -- there were ninety children when we first opened our doors and almost immediately a hundred and fifty, which was our capacity. And we always had children on the waiting list, including unborn children. This is how much the community loved it. And we all loved it because our children were not just surviving, they were thriving. We served three meals a day, we had martial arts, we taught them -- after a while we taught them to meditate. Every day, everybody from age four and a half to twelve would sit in the multipurpose room and just sit quietly. I was the most amazing wonderful thing. We didn’t discipline children by demeaning them, yelling at them, [01:22:00] putting them in a detention room, and making them feel terrible. We taught them Hatha yoga postures that they would have to leave and do. Because in doing the posture they had to focus and maintain balance, and so it brought them back to center so that they could come back to the classroom feeling okay, I’ll all right now, I’m a human being again. And those young people are now in their forties. I interviewed them for my master’s thesis, you might want to read it at some point. And they all say, every single one of them, that the Oakland Community School was the high point of their lives. And they’ve gone every which way in their lives, some of them went to jail -- how would they not? They grew up in our communities -- some of them became doctors, some of them became CEOs of organizations, [01:23:00] some of them became actors or actresses, some of 32 �them became lawyers, one became a museum docent, a number of them became teachers. All of them say the same thing, that “The reason why Oakland Community School worked is because you loved us enough.” We took care of them, we loved them. They were individual human beings. And there was nothing they could do that would make us stop loving them. They could make a mistake, but we would still love them. They could get in a fight, but we would still love them. They could not love themselves and we would still love them. And that made an imprint on their hearts. So it was really wonderful to work on that thesis because of them. Being in the academy wasn’t that fun, but interviewing them was really wonderful. JJ: Final thoughts, and then we’ll stop. [01:24:00] EH: One day I was talking to a young poet and he asked me about love. And for some reason I responded with this, that’s now become a quote attributed to me, “Love is a great expression of power. Use it to transform your world.” JJ: That’s great. Thank you very much. EH: Thank you very much! END OF VIDEO FILE 33 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c1aa03937b2ebbf465a87d5822de9fd.mp4 98026b3d70e1bf17cd325fc7e09eceeb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Erica Huggins vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Erica Huggins, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 3/13/2013 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Huggins_Erica Title A name given to the resource Erica Huggins video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Huggins, Erica Description An account of the resource Oral history of Erica Huggins, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 3/13/2013 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-03-13 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b83d3ae18033793c6be8b898f1760b9f.mp4 d99165c2ec14daffb718caf6c1096bc4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a276d74534a1f03c21aeea3013217bc.pdf 08d286ee55786900d662dcaadefde726 PDF Text Text Erickson, Floyd Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Floyd Erickson Length of Interview: (1:15:24) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Lyndsay Curatolo Interviewer: “We’re talking today with Floyd Erickson of Lansing, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Mr. Erickson, start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born?” I was born in Gwinn, Michigan–– that’s in the U.P. It’s a little town 18-miles south of Marquette. It’s a mining town. Interviewer: “Now, what year were you born?” I was born in 1922. Interviewer: “Now did you grow up in Gwinn or did you move around?” I grew up in Gwinn and I went to Detroit after I graduated from high school in Gwinn and made airplane parts in Detroit. Interviewer: “To back up a little bit, what did your father do for a living?” Well, he was a lumbering man. He had a lumber camp with six/seven lumberjacks and after that he became a fire warden and game warden. He helped a game warden. Interviewer: “Did he have trouble making a living during the depression?” In the early thirties it was really rough. I remember dad as being–– I’m the oldest of 12, so I remember that very vividly. It was really rough back in those years. ‘33/’34, a lot in there. (2:00). �Interviewer: “So what would he do? I mean, was he able to keep his lumber camp or did he have to sell it?” Well, he kept it till a point [where] it wasn’t enough profit for him. So, he got a good job with the state of Michigan. He had a break, it was in World War I. And they sent–– back in those days, about 1935. My dad became a fire warden there and he got $500 from the state department for being in World War I. He made 25 trips across the Atlantic in the Navy, hauling troops over to England in World War I. Interviewer: “Was this sort of the war ‘bonus’ or––” It was a bonus. And he bought a car [for] $495. I guess he had five dollars left. Anyway, he had to have that car for his job. Interviewer: “Now, when did you finish high school?” I finished high school in ‘41. They held me back one year because the teacher said I was too bashful–– withdrawn, you know? That convinced my mother so they held me back for one year. Interviewer: “So you finish in ‘41, and is it at that point you go, right away, down to Detroit to work?” Pretty much, yes. In fact, it was a matter of a couple months and I was down there. I had a good job and my uncle and aunt helped me out, get started. (4:15). Interviewer: “Now where were you working? Or what company were you working for?” I was with [the] Excel company making airplane parts. Interviewer: “Were you doing that when Pearl Harbor happened?” I was coming out of Fox Theater [in] downtown Detroit and they were selling extras: “Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.” So that was–– I knew I would eventually be on. By the way, I was very proud to serve my country–– very proud. Interviewer: “Before Pearl Harbor happened, had you been paying attention to the news? Were you aware of the war in Europe and that kind of thing?” Oh, yes. I kept up with things pretty well. I knew that time was running out for me as far as–– well I wanted to serve, so. Anyway, the government kind of helped my folks out there for a while, so I got off to a good start. �Interviewer: “The job that you had–– some defense jobs came with deferments, where you could have stayed if you wanted to.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Now, did your job have a deferment?” They tried to make you think that and I said no. I [was] going back home and I [knew] I was going to be drafted. So, I didn’t know if they could stop me or not, but they didn’t hold me back. Interviewer: “So you basically chose to leave the job?” Yes. Interviewer: “And go back home. Now, were you helping your family at that point?” At that period, I worked for my dad because he was the foreman on what they called outside of the mine–– on the ground. He wasn’t underground, he was a foreman on the surface. And the [something] came up and it was crushed and it was hauled out on trestles and dropped 30-feet below and loaded up from there into big trucks. Well, trucks were down below–– they were being filled up, actually. They hauled that stuff to Marquette and shipped out to Detroit, Pittsburgh, places like that. (6:56). Interviewer: “So this was iron-ore?” Iron-ore. Interviewer: “And what was your job there?” I was an oiler. I oiled all the spindles that the cable ran on, you know, to pull the cars out onto the trestles. So, I had to see that that was done. Interviewer: “And how long did you spend doing that?” A very short time length, maybe three months. Interviewer: “At what point did you get a draft notice?” I got a draft notice in December of ‘42. �Interviewer: “So basically, it’s a year after Pearl Harbor essentially. So you were in Detroit for a while and then you were back home for a while.” Almost exactly a year. Interviewer: “And then when did you actually report for duty?” Then I reported for duty–– it was like the first of February, somewhere around there. Interviewer: “Now where did you report to first?” Fort Sheridan in Illinois. Interviewer: “Was that just processing?” That’s all, yes. Interviewer: “So where did they send you for basic training?” Camp Roberts in California. Interviewer: “And how did they get you to Camp Roberts?” Train. Trains kept things running. Interviewer: “Do you remember anything about that train ride?” Oh, yes. I remember I had never seen any part of the country like that at that point. But yes, it was very, very good. (8:54) Interviewer: “How long did it take to get out there?” I’d say about three-to-four days. Interviewer: “And did you spend much time sort-of sitting around on sidings, getting out of the way of other trains?” Yeah. We had to get out of the way. The process of feeding all these countries was–– and we were the ones feeding all these countries that were our Allies. �Interviewer: “Especially the British, at that point.” Oh my gosh–– and Russia. We furnished practically all of our stuff, almost–– it seemed like. Interviewer: “They made certain things and then we made a lot of other things for them. But yeah, we gave a huge amount of stuff.” Oh my gosh. We made tanks–– well they were making [them] in Detroit [in] two minutes on the line, a tank was coming out. Interviewer: “So you go to Camp Roberts, and where in California is that or what city/town is it close to?” Camp Roberts is practically on the coast. It’s north of L.A., between San Francisco and L.A. Interviewer: “What did the basic training consist of?” Well, it consisted of crawling on your body and on your knees and stuff like that–– and rifle training. We went under the place where they shot machine guns over the top of your body and you had to make your way through this barbed-wire thing, and all that kind of stuff. (10:55). Interviewer: “And did you also get taught to obey orders and that kind of thing?” Oh, yes. Yeah. We were told what we were to do by a big Sergent up from Oregon. He was very good. Tough–– but he was tough for your good. Interviewer: “Now, how easy or hard was it for you to adjust to being in the Army?” I had had a taste of the Army back in 1938. [I] went for one month of training for us young guys in high school. Citizens Military Training–– that’s what they called it. Interviewer: “So you knew a little bit about marching––” I knew something about the service before I got in it. Interviewer: “Now, how long did the basic training last? Or, how long were you at Camp Roberts?” That was only about three months. �Interviewer: “And what happened to you after that?” They took us–– we were all [northern guys]–– out of Montana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, Dakotas. We were all left–– kind of a bunch. They wanted guys to work in the cold weather. Interviewer: “So you had a group that was all training together and then as a group, you all went together. Where do they send you to?” A lot of us got into the 87th part of the Infantry Regiment. That was ⅓ of the 10th Mountain Division. (12:59). Interviewer: “And it was sort of the original mountain regiment that the government formed, and then they added two more to make it a division. Now, where did you train with them? What base were you at?” We ended up at Kiska. Interviewer: “Did you stop anywhere between Camp Roberts and Kiska?” Not very much. No. Interviewer: “So you didn’t go to Fort Lewis first?” So they took us there and we had to climb the volcano on Kiska. You know, like two steps forward and one back. It was horrible climbing. Climbing right–– no beach. Boy, that was a hairy landing on that volcano. (14:17). Interviewer: “So you’re going in a landing craft and you’re right there, and you’re going up a rock face.” Right. The volcanoes were right, straight into the water. No beach at all. Interviewer: “Had you had any mountain climbing training before you got there?” Very, very little up to that point. Interviewer: “So you joined the regiment after it was formed––” �We were five-months on Kiska, training all the time, climbing and shooting across the bay at targets at the ships, and held before we landed there. Interviewer: “Now, just to backup a little bit–– you talked about landing at Kiska in the Aleutian Island and the Japanese, in the middle of 1942, had occupied two islands. They occupied Attu and Kiska. Attu, some American units landed on and had to fight to capture and then they were planning on landing on Kiska. Now, were you with the group that was slated to land on Kiska initially?” Yes. Interviewer: “What were you expecting to find when you landed?” Well, we were supposed to meet something like 6,000 Japanese, but for whatever reason they pulled out about ten-days before we got there. Interviewer: “So you land and all of a sudden there’s nobody shooting at you.” Right. We found out after three-days. You couldn’t see your hand in front of your face because of the fog, you know, up there. It was just terrible the amount of fog in the summertime. That cleared up before we left. (16:13). Interviewer: “So by the time you left Kiska, you now had a lot of practice with mountain climbing.” Oh, yes. We developed a lot there for the five-months we were on that island. Interviewer: “Now, what were the temperatures like? How warm or cold––” The temperatures there were–– very on the warm-side. [When] we left there, it was snowing a little bit, December 1. December 25, I was on my folks front porch for four-days. It seemed like it was going all the time. The last 50-miles I bummed a man that brought me from Escanaba to Gwinn. Boy, I will never forget that. I told the man to let me out right [there], my dad’s car [was] in front of the drugstore. I got out, I loaded my duffel bag in the backseat, and my brother–– he was about 16 at that time–– and he came out and he said, “What the hell is going on?” So, he took me home and put me on the front porch and said, “I’ll go around and tell mom.” I was like, “What’s going on here?” That was Christmas Day 1943. And she almost fainted when–– she didn’t know I was even in the country. I saw and said I would never do that to my mother again. (18:15). �Interviewer: “So you get just a few days at home, and then where do you go back to then?” Back to Camp Hale, Colorado. Camp Carson first, but Camp Hale–– they were building it. They had enough room for some of us, so we were taken in a little bit. Before I left there, there were over 13,000 of us–– 10th Mountain. We had blended in with the 85th, 86th, and we were the 87th. Interviewer: “So you got all 3 regiments for the division now together.” So we worked together there at Camp Hale for a few months. Interviewer: “Now, did they take any of the guys out of the 87th and put them in the other regiments?” Yes. There were a lot of terrific skiers in my outfit–– the best in the world. Some of our Norwegian Suites and Finland. And I knew some of them from [somewhere]. [Somewhere] is where there were a lot of good skiers. There were all jumpers for the most part because that’s what we did up there. There’s three big ski jumps up there: Iron Mountain and there’s one over by Ironwood on the Wisconsin border, and the one in [somewhere]. They were all capable of 300 feet or more. (20:09). Interviewer: “As a kid then, had you done a lot of skiing?” Well, my dad made my first skis when I was four years old. I got a picture someplace around [here]. Interviewer: “And did you do mostly cross-country or were you doing downhill?” Cross-country. Cross-country to the places where we made jumps. Interviewer: “So you were used to that kind of stuff already.” Oh, yeah. I think about that now because we got snow–– somewhat mules, now. If we’d had a broken leg or something, it was a mile/mile-and-a-half to the main road. That would have been tough for three young kids. Boy, I’ll tell you–– Interviewer: “So you did all of that stuff when you were a kid and didn’t really think about it.” You don’t think about that then, but I think about it now. We would have been [in] real trouble. �Interviewer: “Now, what kind of job or assignment do you have with the 87th?” Towards the end of the war, I had moved into a Staff Sergeant job because the guy got hit and you’d just replace–– Interviewer: “But before that–– I guess, when you were back there at Camp Hale. What was your job? Were you just a rifleman or something else?” Yeah. I was a machine gunner there. Interviewer: “And what company were you serving in?” That was Company 87. Interviewer: “Was that a weapons company? So they had machine guns and mortars?’ Machine guns and rifles. We had some rifles–– two small rifles and a Carbine, the small one. Recently, I had a chance to handle these guns–– had a picture taken with ‘em. I can’t get over how heavy they are. They feel twice as heavy as back then. (22:32). Interviewer: “Well, you are 96 years old.” Well, of course I was around 170 pounds. Now I’m lucky if I’m 150. Interviewer: “An M1, I think, is about eight-pounds.” Oh my gosh. I’m telling you–– the difference. Of course, the machine guns, but that was a twoman job. [It] broke down into two pieces. Interviewer: “Now, was that a 30-caliber machine gun?” We’re talking about 100 pounds a piece, you know? That there was a lot of load. Interviewer: “Was this an air-cooled machine gun or a water-cooled machine gun?” Water-cooled. Interviewer: “So that’s got the big tube. That would be why you had that weight. So, you are training now for–– so you spend a fair amount of 1944 then training. Do you remember where you were when the D-Day landing took place? In June of ‘44, where were you?” �We didn’t go to Italy until December of ‘44. We were training very, very hard. Rock climbing, cross-country, downhill–– Interviewer: “So you really spent what wasn’t just a few months then at Camp Hale. You were there for the better part of a year.” Yeah. Camp Hale was a good place for training, but in the mountains 20 below, 30 below, was nothing. And then sleeping out in the open. I remember Easter morning 1944, six-inches of snow on my sleeping bag. My boots were on my chest to keep them from freezing down below. Two pairs of socks on down below. I’m telling you, boy, that was–– that there separated the men from the boys. We lost a couple hundred guys–– they went south. [It] was not for them. (25:03). Interviewer: “Did you have a lot of frostbite cases and things like that?” Yes. Interviewer: “Did you also have people with broken bones and things like that? Did you have accidents in training where people would get hurt?” Well, we didn’t have too many like that in training. There were a few, yes, but not–– when you realize there were thousands of men, you know? And we all had to go through those clubs bouncing off–– 10,000 feet training in that area on the mountain side. Interviewer: “Were there people who had trouble with the altitude? If you got too high?” Yeah. You had to adapt to that too. Interviewer: “Now, what kind of accommodations did you have at Camp Hale? Did they build barracks for you?” They built fine barracks–– warm, you know–– but it took a while to get them fully completed. We were in them before they were even completed. That there made some pretty good laughs along the way. (26:27). Interviewer: “So were you sleeping in barracks that didn’t have roofs on them or didn’t have walls on them?” Yeah. Stuff like that–– didn’t have doors. Mountain side doors were on, of course. �Interviewer: “When you were at Camp Hale, what did you do when you were off duty–– when you weren’t training. Did they have entertainment or could you go into town?” Yes. We had places to go–– by train–– to Denver, Colorado Springs, Grand Junction. And then the highest town in the U.S.A. I can’t spit it out right now, but I think it starts with an M. Interviewer: “So you’ve gone to different places in Colorado.” [It] was only 12-miles from Camp. Interviewer: “Did you go to the ski resorts and places like that?” Yeah. Some guys skied all of the time–– they were just nuts about skiing. We still had watering holes, you know. One right there in the [something]. That bar was the Silver Dollar Bar in that town. Twelve miles out at 12,000 feet. We were at 9,600 feet at Camp Hale. And that was something I’ll just never forget–– that watering hole there. What a bar. I was there last summer. (28:23). Interviewer: “Okay–– it’s still there.” My nephew–– he schemed with some of my buddies, 10th Mountain Guys, on Cooper Hill. That’s where we trained, right at the National Divide. That’s where the water runs west–– Interviewer: “Yeah. Continental divide.” That’s where our big present with 999 names on it. My best buddy is on there–– [he’s] number eleven. Interviewer: “So those were the men that were killed in action.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Now, as 1944 went on, did you start to wonder if you were ever going to get into the war?” We did. And we were about ready to lose our mountain part of our logo and finally, Marshall got with Clark and Clark wanted us right now. Interviewer: “And Clark was Mark Clark, so that’s the Commander of the Fifth Army in Italy.” �Italy, right. Interviewer: “So this is now late 1944 and we’re still kind of bogged down in the Apennines north of Rome.” Some of us were out and were already moving in December. They were in foxholes in January. Interviewer: “Now, tell us about your trip to Europe. You go from Camp Hale and then where do you go?” We got on the train and I remember going through–– [I] forgot. [We] went down to Camp Swift and that’s where we almost lost our mountain logo. Interviewer: “And where is Camp Swift?” It’s close to Austin, Texas. (30:27). Interviewer: “So you go to Texas–– and maybe they were going to convert you into a regular division.” Right. And boy, we didn’t want that. We had all of the best skiers in the country sitting there, sweating it out. Clark says, “Come on. I need you right now.” Interviewer: “So from Camp Swift, where do you go?” [From] Camp Swift we went to Newport. Interviewer: “So Virginia?” Yep. Red Skelton was there, “Give ‘em hell boys. Give ‘em hell.” We were up on this big ship. Interviewer: “So you got a send-off from a celebrity. Now, what kind of ship were you on?” We were on the biggest ship that America had. America was the name of the ship. Interviewer: “So it’s a big ocean liner?” Big ocean liner converted into a troop ship. Interviewer: “And did the ship sail by itself or were you in a convoy?” �Nope. It was all by itself. It was able to go fast enough, so they figured we stood a good chance of getting there with it. Interviewer: “So the U-Boats couldn’t catch you.” Yeah. Interviewer: “So, where do you land then in Europe?” We landed at the bottom of the boot–– Naples. Interviewer: “I guess you had to go through the Straits of Gibraltar to get there. Did you see that?” Yeah. We had one guy that got off to get into Naples. He lost control, so we had to fish him out of the water. So, he got off to a rough start. (32:31). Interviewer: “Did you stay in Naples or did you just move right out?” No, we moved right out–– north. We were side-railed quite a few times because of traffic [going] south. Yeah. There were a lot of troops there. Troops that had migrated north from Africa. Interviewer: “So you’ve got wounded men coming back and you’ve got supplies going back– – but they were using the Italian railroads by then.” Yeah. Interviewer: “So, you get to go by train part of the way?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Now, you were arriving there in January or early February?” We were arriving there in January and some of our men were in foxholes already [to] relieve Brazilian troops. So, we had to have communications with them and had to have special people to bring us together, you know. We didn’t know what they were doing and in a way, that transition took a while. (34:11). Interviewer: “What impression did you have of the Brazilians?” �Well, I guess they were doing a good job. They didn’t have any combat. But, the 92nd Division– – which was all black, except for officers. There were a lot of white officers in the 92nd. They had been replaced on [Mount Belvedere.]. So we were up front–– the 10th Mountain Division–– to take Mount Belvedere the first day. It wasn’t easy–– our whites were floating around out in the ocean and the Atlantic ocean never got to us–– our whites. Interviewer: “Oh, your white uniform. So, your snow uniforms?” Yeah. This first mountain had a foot of snow on top. We were there like sore-thumbs the next day. But [the] place was full of bodies all over the place. And the eastside got the worst of it–– we were on the westside, the 87th. So, we got by a lot better than the two other regiments. They were on the other side. Interviewer: “How long have you been in that area on the front lines before you went forward?” Maybe a week–– we had to recover. The Germans had been on the mountain off to the left [and] they could see down where we were assembling and stuff with spy glasses. And we knew that they were there, so we had been–– the night before–– came up and climbed that mountain from the opposite side. All night long it took them to get to the top, but they had experts putting in Tetons and rope in the rocks. Then the soldiers had it a lot easier going up that [mountain] by pulling themselves. (36:46). Interviewer: “They had things they could connect their ropes to so they could climb up.” So, they took care of the mountains–– the guys on top of that mountain. The Germans had maybe 50 men up there–– I don’t know exactly, but they took care of it. Interviewer: “So, they would have been artillery spotters?” Yeah. Anyway, that there really worked out good. Then we had a line that came down out there, so our wounded were shoved down on that line. That worked out beautifully. Interviewer: “Do you remember going into combat for the first time?” Oh, yes. We had one Lieutenant that couldn’t make it, and he was our leader. So we were cut-off for a little bit , but we hooked up with the breville/rental company–– like we always did, you know. And we hooked up with them and took off. �Interviewer: “You said your Lieutenant couldn’t make it, did he just not go with you or did he get hit?” He came back with us about a week later. [He] said he was fine. He was part Indian, his name was Richardson. Anyway, he turned out to be a good Lieutenant. (38:22). Interviewer: “Why was he not with you on that first day?” He just couldn’t stand it. Too much fire–– machine gun fire, especially. Interviewer: “So, he did lose his nerve that first time.” Lots of guys killed–– a lot of guys. We figured we lost somewhere around 200 men. Interviewer: “So out of the whole regiment?” Yeah, the whole regiment. And that was about a fifth of what–– because we ended up losing 999. Interviewer: “And that was out of the whole division in the course of the war. So, a fifth of the men on that one day?” Yeah. So out of about 13,000 men we lost 1,000. We had Norwegians with us too–– they were a part of our hookup there. But, they were very good. They’ve got their own plaque up there right alongside ours at the National Divide–– a big, grand thing. They lost quite a few men too. But, they were terrific skiers. Interviewer: “How long did it take to actually capture Mount Belvedere? Was it one day or four days?” We had it in one day, but we were a long way from it–– recovered, you know. To be able to say, “Well, we took that mountain.” We were about beat-up there. But, we got straightened away and sailed right on through. Mountains after that were a lot less dependent. (40:27). Interviewer: “Now, as you’re moving north in Italy, you’re getting closer to the Po Valley I mean, do the mountains get any lower or smaller?” Smaller. Yep, definitely smaller. Interviewer: “Now, how much are you seeing of the Germans themselves? Are they just firing at you from a distance?” �They are coming through our lines by the thousands. Just pouring through our lines. Interviewer: “When did that start happening?” That started happening, actually, very shortly after Belvedere. [The] Germans could see the lights. Interviewer: “Now, these German soldiers who were coming forward, how would they do that when they’re approaching? How do you know they’re not attacking you?” Like that. Interviewer: “And what impression–– what did they look like to you, these German soldiers?” They had good clothing. They had no more ammunition–– I thought it was all taken from them. They’ve been fighting a long time. I mean, three years before World War II they were fighting already. Interviewer: “They were fighting since 1939 anyway.” Yeah. Four years–– yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. They’ve been fighting. They fought in Poland, they fought in France, Scandinavia and stuff, and then in Russia and so forth.” They had already been bombing the heck out of Russia. (42:11). Interviewer: “Now, the ones that you saw–– did they look to be about your age or were they younger or older?” For the most part they were older. Because I was only like 22 or 23 at that time. [When] I got out I was 24. Interviewer: “Right. But a lot of the American soldiers would have been 19, 20, 21, that kind of thing. That’s very standard military age. So, these guys are looking a little older than that. Then, yeah they probably are all veterans. As far as you could tell, were these all regular Army troops that were surrendering to you?” Yes. Regular Army troops. �Interviewer: “You’re not seeing the SS or anything like that?” There was some SS later that we’d run into, but they were pretty well-beat too. Interviewer: “So fairly early still in ‘45 the Germans–– even before you get into the Po Valley–– some of the Germans are already coming over and surrendering to you. Now, as you go forward and you head into the Po Valley, was that dangerous to do once you can leave the mountains and go out into the open?” Yes. There’s a little difference there. You have to be ready to dig a foxhole very quickly. In fact, this is any time you stop for a while. It was a wise thing to get yourself into [the] ground. Interviewer: “Because they could see you and then they could start shooting artillery at you.” They could put a mortar round like in my buddy's foxhole. He was the first gunner and he had just cleaned up while 10 or 12 Germans got on a hedgerow. He had gotten to all of them–– him and his second gunner. It wasn’t two-minutes later they put a mortar shell right in his foxhole and it gave him a lot of internal injury–– which he died [from]. But, he took care of my buddy. His leg was almost off–– left leg–– and they said to take care of him first, but he died in the meantime. (44:48). Interviewer: “Now, was that a foxhole that was already there?” That was a foxhole that had dug. Interviewer: “Now, you got hit at about the same time, didn’t you? I mean, there was a shell blaster.” Well, at the time I was a Sergeant. I was probably looking ahead for where we wanted to go. Being informed by riflemen and rifle officers–– rifle company. Interviewer: “So, what happened to you when you got hit?” To me, coming into the Po Valley I was the Sergeant then. And, boy, that was some kind of a shell that came in right at my feet, you know. And Maddox said that I just lucked out because I was thoroughly checked and I had no blood on me. Interviewer: “How close did the shell land to you?” �They said it was a couple feet from my right foot. Interviewer: “Did they think the shell went into the dirt a little before it blew up?” Well, it made a hole. That’s for sure. Obviously, this shrapnel went underneath me because–– I was blown high enough up so that could happen. But five guys, you know, they got it and they were all further away than I was by far–– 25 feet away. (46:41). Interviewer: “So, you’re blown up in the air–– were you knocked unconscious?” I was 25-minutes out. I couldn’t hear nothing. So I [something], best way I could for a while and got by. Three hours later, I was able to hear. Interviewer: “So, you did have some effects from the shock of the blast, but on the whole you were very lucky.” Oh, I hope to tell you. Interviewer: “Now, as you got down into the valley, did the Germans oppose you when you tried to cross the river or did they just get out of the way?” Oh, very much so. They had some bursts above our heads, like [says something]. Interviewer: “Like the 88s or?” Shooting at airplanes and stuff and some of that. But, we were crossing that river–– it’s about 300 feet across there, a big river. We had to get out a couple of times because we were hitting sandbars. And these sandbars, lasted maybe three/four steps and then 25-feet down. Two of our men, in my section, [there] were two of them that went down. They walked a little bit too far. My [minnick]–– I was in charge, if he was hooked up with us. He was a very strong swimmer and he went down that water. Two of our guys–– packs off their backs, like next thing to a hundred pounds–– they were saved. He got two Silver Stars for that. (48:44). Interviewer: “Now, what kind of boats did you have to cross the river with?” We had [sound] boats. They were rubber and they came up with a couple of those things. But far to the west, the Germans were still crossing the river. They were having a worse time than we were, but we didn’t know that, of course. �Interviewer: “Now, when you were fighting did you get much air support or artillery support or things like that?” Oh, yes. We got the cavalry and air power anytime we wanted, and they kept as close to us as possible. The Air Corps–- that was easy. We would say, “We got a half of a hay-stack out there, it looks like there’s a machine that is in it–– we should take care of that.” 15 minutes later they were right there blowing the thing off the map. So, we had full support with the Air Corps and artillery. Interviewer: “Now at some point, you got a Bronze Star.” Yeah. Interviewer: “How did that happen?” You know, I don’t fully know to this day exactly what they had written up, but evidently I helped with–– which came natural–– to help with the guy that was in bad shape. I helped to take him back. They always say it’s “over and above,” you know? I was going to say something about that. (50:44). Interviewer: “You were talking about the Po Valley––” It had to do with the crossing. Interviewer: “What we were talking about [was] the artillery, the aircraft, and all of that.” At night now we were traveling a lot because of the flash-ground. And the fact that the Germans were giving up, so we didn’t have much opposition. So, we were traveling pretty good. We got into Bologna and then some of the little towns–– Verona–– that’s the big cities. Lots of little towns, the Italians had all kinds of vino along the way. Interviewer: “So the Italian people were acting happy to see you.” Oh, they hated Mussolini something fierce. They hated the Germans because the Germans were doing horrible things. I gotta tell you. Once, I was sitting in about one of these mountaintops–– maybe the fourth mountaintop, small mountain–– looking down into the valley, out of a foxhole. And I could see a mile away, an Italian farmer came back to his farm home–– [something] his farm home–– and he was singing up a storm. An opera song, you know, they love opera music. He was just as happy as you could get. 24-hours later he had his wife and his two kids with him. I could see this as if I’m looking at a television screen–– plain as day. The kids got into the house �before the parents did and all of a sudden, booby traps were going off. Smoke was coming out of the window. That’s all I know from that point. Interviewer: “So the Germans blew them up or––” Before they left that mountain–– across that valley–– they had booby-trapped that house. I don’t know if the kids were killed or what, because that was, you know, none of our business–– we were on the move. I’m sure we had medics there after, but the Germans were still on that next mountain and they had artillery and that was going all of the time. So that was quite a thing to see, you know. The happiness [and] the sadness the next day. That was hard to take. (54:18). Interviewer: “Now, once you got across the Po and things got easier at that point. Now, getting to the very spring and to the very end of the war in April and May.” Yes. We’re beyond that where I had my close call–– I forgot that story. Anyway, that’s the way it went to the Po Valley and things change differently there. We finally got to Lake Garda–– which is about 25-miles long, mile-and-a-half wide. Interviewer: “It’s a big lake up in the mountains.” Yep. Mussolini had a house on the southeast end of the lake. That was a–– well, when I was there in 2000 all of the stuff was put back together. The Italians did a fantastic job. Everything was hardly a brick on top of another brick–– this place was a mess. Interviewer: “So you saw a lot of war damage in the places that you were going through.” Horrible, horrible, horrible. We tried to get Mussolini ourselves, but Parson got a hold of him. They hung him by his heels at a gas station–– his mistress. Interviewer: “Now for your unit, you’re heading up and you kind of go up and you pass Lake Garda. You get to Lake Garda, the next thing on your itinerary is a place called Revo–– was that just a stop along the way?” There’s a stop on the north end–– Revo, yes. Just beyond that, up and close to Austria and them, we had captured a German liquor dental. 16 truckloads of booze, I understand. And the General said the men were going to have it. It’s a tough couple of bottles of booze to each–– I don’t know. It amounted to a lot of blonde-and-a-half men, I guess. It didn’t take long. He said, “We still got loaded rifles and you guys are getting drunk. No more of that booze.” So we had 2,000 [something]. And I never drank the booze, I was a beer-drinker. I had [92/10 beers] at the Leaning Tower of Pisa–– that there was after it all. �Interviewer: “Now, as the war ends you’re getting close to the Austrian border?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Now, did you encounter–– was there more organized German forces surrendering at that point?” Yes. Lots of ‘em. We really pulled the border right there at Lake Garda–– south end. We were trying to take care of the guys that were escaping on the west side of Lake Garda. Anyway, we had loaded up by Higgins boat–– way too many men, way too much recruitment. When they started that boat up, it went down like a piece of lead. [We] lost 25 men right there, just like that. I think the story is right because that’s the way I got it. And a couple of years ago, they had been looking at that boat, but they’d left it there with all the dead bodies that are all bones. 25 men we lost–– a real boulder. (58:49). Interviewer: “And of course, a mountain lake like that is very deep and very cold. So, once they go under with their packs, you’re not getting them out. Now, at the end of the war there are German armies that are trying to retreat south and Americans are chasing from the north and you’re coming from the south and they’re in between you.” Yeah. We were taking prisoners by the thousands, all that while. Lots of them would come through our line of sight. Some of them were making it out on the east side–– north. They were making it to Austria and I’m sure a few got there, but we had to have a General that was the head of the crack regiment. I can’t remember his name right now–– very familiar name. He died in a hole in the mountain–– the road was right through that mountain on up to Revo. He was standing in one of the openings–– they had to have an opening every every mile maybe. But there’s a lot of traffic on there–– trucks and stuff, no trains. But, this General’s name just has to come to me. He was a head with the crack regiment. (1:00:31). Interviewer: “An American General?” Yep. An American General. He got killed right there in that opening. Him and his Master Sergeant. And there’s a plaque right there at Revo in his honor. I can’t spit his name out. He wanted to get into the 10th Mountain Division for his last month. They had taken his division–– his division had taken quite a pounding, I guess. So, they busted it up and he said [he’ll] go with the 10th Mountain Division. He wanted to stay in the war. Interviewer: “Now, did you meet up with the American Seventh Army eventually or did you not see them?” �No. Actually, the 10th Mountain got up there into the Alps–– [something] which are a part of the Alps. Anyway, we had to go back down where Tito was screwing up. He wanted to get a piece of Italy and so we sat there for three weeks while he was making up his mind about what he was going to try to do. But, the Italians had taken that away from him in World War I. Interviewer: “Or at least they had taken it from the Austrians at that point.” So, we were sitting there waiting. Interviewer: “So was that at Trieste or thata area? Yeah it was. Now, we’ve gotten into your story, basically to the end of the war in Europe in the middle of 1945 and your unit wound up on the end of the Italian/Yugoslavian frontier–– kind of keeping an eye on things for several months. How did you spend your time while you were in that area?” (1:02:40). When we were on our way back–– first, going up, we stopped at the Leaning Tower of Pisa. We could see it from where we were bivouacked. Oddly enough, coming back we did the same thing. [We] stopped there overnight–– maybe two nights–– before we could get on the rails and go south. Interviewer: “But before that though, you were up along the Yugoslavian border.” Right. Interviewer: “And you say you stayed there for a while. So, what were you doing while you were up there?” Oh, we were just biting time. We had loaded rifles, loaded machine guns all set up and Tito wanted to make a move while we were there to stop. Anyway, that was about three weeks that we sat there. Interviewer: “And then after that they moved you out of there?” Yes. They moved us out of there–– south. We went to a ski resort–– beautiful. North of the big city on the west side of Italy–– on the west side of the boot. What’s the name of that city? [The] biggest city in Italy. (1:04:25). Interviewer: “Milan?” Milan–– north of Milan, in the country of Switzerland. We slept between sheets, the foxholes, mud, you name it. Boy, I’m not kidding you, I couldn’t believe it. A mountain resort, a ski resort. �We had guys up there at six o’clock in the morning ready to make their run. That’s the kind of skiers they were. They were nuts–– it’s cold, you know? Which, they were saving between sheets they got out on. We sat there for about a week, and we could see the girls taking care of the sheep and cattle in the mountains. It was beautiful, beautiful. And this–– I forget the name of the resort–– but it was Catholic, you know. They had these little boxes, you know. Interviewer: “Those shrines.” Yeah. That was there. Had plenty of vino and beer. Interviewer: “Did you get to do any more tourism in Italy at that point? I mean, did you get to go to Venice or Rome or anything like that?” I’m just trying to think. Interviewer: “I guess you went to Pisa and Florence is in that area.” Well, of course in 2000 I went and I was amazed. I couldn’t get over what they had done. They had just put everything back together just beautifully. (1:06:32). Interviewer: “So, when did you get orders to go home?” When we eventually got on the boat down there at the lower end. Interviewer: “Back in Naples again?” Naples again. And, we headed west. Interviewer: “So when was that?” That was in–– the war was over May 2nd. Interviewer: “Yeah. In Europe. It’s still going on with Japan until August. Well–– did they talk about using you in Japan?” We went back home–– we were supposed to go to New York, but New York was too busy. So, we went back to the same place. Interviewer: “So you go back to Newport News and that area.” �Newport News and [a] train from there on, and back to Camp Carson, Colorado. One furlough after another. I was told by my first Sergeant, he said, “Erickson, you could stay with us for a few more months.” He said, “You could kick-up a Tech Sergeant.” I said, “Not worth it. I’m going home and getting married.” (1:08:10). Interviewer: “So, when had you gotten engaged?” We never did get engaged. Interviewer: “Oh, so you just went home and––” Went home and got married. I got the picture. And that was a big day, boy. Interviewer: “Well, did you know her before you went to Europe?” Yeah. She was my–– we were down here together. I was only one year ahead of her in school with her brother. That was 1945. She waited three years. Interviewer: “Did you write to her regularly?” I wrote to her as much as I could, but she wrote to me about 20 times as much. One time, up by Kiska, I got over 20 letters at one time. They couldn't catch up to us, I guess, I don’t know. But I am telling you, it was a great day–– a great feeling. I was so proud of the fact that I was with the 10th Mountain Division. Very proud. Interviewer: “Now, after you got out of the Army, what did you do? What kind of job did you get?” I went into construction. I had done a lot of roofing work with my dad as a kid, when we were really poor. So, I went through their course–– three-and-a-half years of, one day of school, four days of on the job training. And benefited very much so. I was in housing, and building big buildings out at Michigan State–– science building. I remember in the cold winter, hanging outside doors–– all winter long. Stupid. Anyway, here we were, cold weather outfit, born in the U.P.. It seemed like everything I did was with the cold weather. After the war I was with this company and we’re putting up a screw factory here in Lansing–– it was right after the war and I got a job right, quick like [that], you know. And it was putting these pans up that hooked together to pour concrete foundations. Just going to clap two of them together like that. [It] sent me red, straight out on my face in the mud. I was still shell-shocked, you know. I got up and I was embarrassed and I felt like a mess. But, they understood after a while and there was no �laughing. It was no laughing matter. That just shows you that what you had to do, you had to do the best you could. That was to get as low as you can, as quick as you can. (1:12:24). Interviewer: “Just remember your Army training there.” Absolutely. Interviewer: “Did you stay in the construction business then?” Yes. I was in that for 60-years. I had a supervisory job, but I didn’t like it very much because I loved to work with my hands. Especially firming houses–– I love that. I built this thing. [I] was with my wife and my foot came through the ceiling one day when she was standing right here. I didn’t have my sub-floor on yet–– it was still overheads and hangers–– and my one foot came through there. She said, “Floyd, are you alright?” I said, “I guess I am.” I checked out and boy, we had a laugh. I’m not kidding you, I came downstairs and I swear on my life we had a laugh for half-an-hour. Interviewer: “Now, to look back at the time that you spent in the service, what do you think you took out of that, or what did you learn from it?” Oh my gosh. What an experience. World War II–– the war was all over, you know. You name it, war was there. And to be in something that gigantic, it moved me for the rest of my life. I was a different person when I realized what really took place. When you realize–– since Russia has lost something like–– Interviewer: “It was at least 20 million and it might’ve been more than that.” 13 million killed. Interviewer: “Soldiers–– just soldiers.” And 30 million civilians. They bombed Russia something fierce. I don’t like to say it, but they’re not good right now, today, you know. Interviewer: “Not particularly, no.” Can’t depend on ‘em. Interviewer: “Well, I tell you, you’ve got a good story. You still tell it well, so thank you very much for taking the time to share it today.” �You’re very welcome. I was very happy to be able to do this, as I have done it several times, you know. (1:15:24). � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context EricksonF2156V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Erickson, Floyd H. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03 Title A name given to the resource Erickson, Floyd (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Description An account of the resource Floyd Erickson was born in 1922 in Gwinn, Michigan, a small town in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, 18-miles south of Marquette. Erickson grew up in Gwinn and eventually after graduating high school in 1941, went to Detroit to work in a factory making airplane parts. A year after Pearl Harbor, Erickson moved home to Gwinn because he knew he would be drafted soon. Nearly a year after Pearl Harbor, Erickson reported for duty in February in Fort Sheridan, Illinois. He was then sent to Camp Roberts in California for basic training. It was from here that Erickson was assigned to the 87th Infantry Regiment, part of the 10th Mountain Division. Erickson’s first assignment was to Kiska in Japan. However, after a month he was sent to Camp Hale, Colorado. As 1944 approached, Erickson and his regiment were sent to Italy, where his regiment spent most of their time. Eventually, due to his service and helping when his fellow soldiers were injured, Erickson was awarded a Bronze Star. Quickly after, Erickson received orders to go home as the war was over in Europe in May 1945. Despite offers to move up as a Technical Sergeant, Erickson decided to leave the Army and get married to his wife. Erickson then went into construction where he worked in the industry for over 60 years. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ccaa27aa2a2b26c00a1429b59489aff5.mp4 2f55a1b9e54168b24470eccf70414bde https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b0566a448dc07b20cfa3fced68fc3499.pdf 05a9ae46f2acb0557a25e2036c17313e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Korean War Interviewee Name: John Erickson Length of Interview: 1hr.19mins Pre-Enlistment (00:38) • Childhood (00:40) o Erickson was born on November 26, 1929 in Hastings, Michigan. (00:46) o Growing up he lived in Alto, Michigan, working on his father’s farm. Describes growing up here and the various duties he was responsible for. (01:10) • Education (01:17) o Was in school until the 5th Grade when he left since he decided to stay home. Finished his schooling in the Army. Otherwise, he taught himself how to read and write by reading the newspaper and the Bible. (01:22) o Some of his brothers had already joined the Navy. (03:00) Enlistment/Basic training (03:26) • Why he joined (04:12) o After discussing the possibility with his dad who was a WWI veteran he agreed to it. Upon firmly deciding that he wanted to join the Army Erickson promptly went to the recruiting office in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and signed up in November, 1949. (04:12) o From there he went to Fort Knox, Kentucky where he was selected as a replacement to someone else who did not qualify for that particular Army post. (04:46) • Where he went (04:51) o Fort Knox training (05:10) ƒ Was then sent here for 13 weeks of tank battalion and infantry training. (05:21) �ƒ Describes his training at Fort Knox in some detail. Among other things he dug fox holes, learned how to pitch a tent, to march and eat K-rations. (05:33) ƒ Mentions his impressions and thoughts on the Army’s discipline and focused lifestyle. (07:21) Went through the standard infantry training. (09:16) ƒ Went home by train for about a week. Afterwards he took a bus to Fort Lewis, Washington. He describes the journey there in some detail. (10:08) o Fort Lewis, WA (10:55) ƒ Started training there in March, 1950. He mentions that he was assigned to the 4th RCT combat team and remained with them during his stationing in the states. (11:03) ƒ Among the training he received here was training with snow shoes and skies while trudging up Mt. Rainier and later in his time in Alaska. (12:07) ƒ Briefly mentions living conditions here. (13:07) o Alaska (13:45) ƒ Geographically, the place he was stationed was 26 miles north of Fairbanks in a place in which he could not remember but somewhere where he could see the Russians [presumably not near Fairbanks—maybe Nome?]. (13:53) ƒ Stayed here for 3-4 months and then returned to the states. (15:43) o Back in the states (15:45) • ƒ Mentions how his service time was extended by a year because of Truman. (16:45) ƒ Was at Fort Lewis, Washington with the 4th RCT combat team when the Korean War started. Soon afterwards he was transferred to the 23rd Regiment and 9th Regiment both regiments in the 2nd Division. While in Korea he was with the 23rd Regiment. (17:25) Active Duty (18:15) o Background (18:20) �ƒ While en-route to Korea aboard a boat he couldn’t name he mentions receiving further training exercises. He furthermore, describes the journey over there. (18:50) o Korea (21:25) ƒ Landed at Pusan where a few months earlier the 2nd division had forced the North Koreans to retreat northward off the line of the Pusan Perimeter. (21:31) ƒ Coming in as a replacement he relates how his first days were of encountering snipers. (22:20) ƒ Briefly describes what sort of weaponry and guns they used. (22:35) ƒ On the march north in pursuit of the North Koreans he mentions going up many different hills all the way up to the Yalu River. Briefly describes the Korean landscape. (23:18) • ƒ As a machine gunner, Erickson describes what a typical shift looked like. (24:45) Typically, when marching northward their flamethrowers went first clearing the way of North Koreans who were well hidden in their underground bunkers. They rounded up large amounts of ammunition on their way north. (25:53) Conditions on the battlefield (26:50) • To move forward, American soldiers would have to pile the bodies of their dead comrades to avoid being hit by N. Korean bullets. (27:24) • Erickson briefly describes several encounters where South Korean soldiers worked with American units on their way north. (28:05) • While taking his turn at the machine gun on one encounter, Erickson called his superiors informing them that the Chinese Red Army were crossing the Yalu River of which his superiors couldn’t believe because the very thought of that possibility was impossible. Four hours later American soldiers were fleeing back towards the South Korean border from Chinese forces. It was during this time that he was captured. (28:25) • Erickson mentions that despite continuing to fire and picking Chinese soldiers off they just kept coming. At about 3pm that day �his unit began to retreat. Around 10pm while still waiting to receive orders to fall back he and a few others were captured. (31:10) o In the minutes before being captured, American units in the area had been warned by the Koreans that the Chinese were coming. While trying to contact HQ for orders Erickson was trying to jam his radio so that when captured it would be useless to the Chinese. (32:57) o Just as they received orders to retreat the Chinese Red Army overran them and began firing into the line of American soldiers nearby and eventually into the building that Erickson and a few other Americans had retreated into. In that encounter three Americans including himself surrendered. (33:30) • ƒ After his unit had been lined up, Erickson saw the devastation of the Chinese advance with burning tanks and dead men in the background. (35:58) POW days (36:30) • Erickson with a few of his comrades was then hauled into a pig pen where they stayed the night and then given millet the next morning. (36:36) • American POWs were treated like pigs by the Chinese who threw their food into pig troughs for the men to use chop sticks to grab their food. (37:08) • Following this, the Chinese divided the POWs into groups. While this was occurring Erickson describes how Chinese commanders treated their own soldiers. What happened next was that a Chinese soldier opened up an American soldier from the 24th Inf. Division so the rest of them could see his heart. (38:58) • Erickson describes his thoughts on this experience. (45:07) • Following this encounter, Erickson mentions that the Chinese marched the POWs unto trucks which took them to a school. Ended up walking the POWs to a cave with lots of lights. (49:17) �• During another experience, he relates how a few Chinese soldiers dropped sake down a man’s throat while digging shrapnel out of his body. Afterwards they sent the man back to the American lines with a white flag. (50:19) • Stayed in a cave enclosure for a month and then took a 23-day death march north to the Yellow River. (52:01) To scare the American POWs they would shoot their guns into the air. (52:12) • After the POWs made it to Camp 5 the Chinese began to interrogate them. (52:42) o During his interrogation, the Chinese asked him if he would write something against his country in exchange in for cigarettes and sake. He told them he couldn’t write and so his friend volunteered to write for him. As things got better, Chinese soldiers would read to them. (53:12) ƒ 23-Day Death March (55:46) • ƒ Erickson backs up and mentions how American POWs were not given winter attire until they were in the camps. (56:10) Camp living conditions (57:00) • Many American soldiers died in the camps and often when the Chinese soldiers came around they asked who was dead and if not the POWs were sent to collect brush. (57:17) • Erickson briefly mentions how they buried the bodies. (58:47) • While in camp, Erickson came down with worms in his stomach and was given garlic as a treatment. Describes this experience in some detail. (1:00:37) • During one encounter, he was sent to get bamboo strips. Describes how it was his job while out on brush detail to load brush onto to boats. He did this for a brief time. (1:03:07) • While in the camp POWs lived 20 to 30 men per mud house. They slept on the ground. He mentions where the sick were taken. (1:06:41) �ƒ • One day, he was loaded onto a truck headed back to Liberty Village. (1:07:15) • When the Chinese moved Erickson to Camp 3 he was thrown into a mud hut with b/w 50 and 70 other guys. (1:08:11) • Erickson goes on to mentions that the biggest killers of POWs were malnutrition and sickness. (1:08:51) • From Erickson’s POV his opinion of the Chinese was higher than that of the Japanese. Briefly compares the Japanese and Chinese’s treatment of POWs. (1:11:03) • Once all the POWs were gathered up, the Chinese took them back to the American lines to be reintroduced. The Americans separated the sick from the healthy after they were repatriated. (1:12:10) Going home (1:12:37) • Erickson was sent home aboard a helicopter to the states from Korea. Stopped briefly in Hawaii and then went onto California. (1:13:10) After the Service (1:13:46) • Readjusting to Home (1:13:55) o Upon being discharged, he had the choice of staying in the Army but decided to go home instead because he had had enough. (1:14:05) o Describes the different career paths that he took. (1:14:35) • Reflection (1:15:10) o Wraps up by discussing how his service changed him and impacted his life afterwards. (1:15:23) o Gives some brief details of how his service helped him to be a good soldier and survive. (1:15:55) o End (1:18:45) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Erickson, John (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Erickson, John Description An account of the resource John Erickson is a Korean War veteran who served with the U.S. Army from November 1949 to 1953. Erickson discusses his training and service in Washington and Alaska before he was sent to Korea. He joined the 2nd Division on its advance from Pusan to the Yalu River, and was taken prisoner during a counterattack by the Chinese Red Army, and spent the remainder of the war different Chinese POW camps, and provides detailed descriptions of his experiences as a POW. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-04-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context EricksonJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fac0054e05164ccfbde26b31a542c619.mp4 784ed7e89806f123684bcdfe96fa20e8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/488c73d06d5468a300bd95d9c0314817.pdf a19f43432665dfefd936f151b02b4a13 PDF Text Text Erickson, Stanley Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Stanley Erickson Length of Interview: (37:52) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman Interviewer: “We’re talking today with Stanley Erickson of Richmond, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay Mr.Erickson start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born?” I was born in Harris, Minnesota, farm kid. Interviewer: “What year?” (00:25) 19– What was it? Interviewer: “1919 wasn’t it?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah, that’s what you told me. Okay 1919 alright and so did you grow up on a farm?” Right. Interviewer: “Okay, and how much education did you have?” At what point? �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Well before going in the service.” Before going in the service? I had gone to– Interviewer: “Had you finished high school?” Oh yeah, yeah finished high school, Interviewer: “Okay, when did you graduate from high school?” 1936. Interviewer: “Okay, now was your family able to keep their farm during the depression?” Barely, barely. Interviewer: “Alright and what were you growing on the farm?” (1:20) Mostly corn. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and where did you go to high school?” Little town called Braham. Interviewer: “Okay, still in Minnesota?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and then after you finished high school what did you do?” �Erickson, Stanley After I finished high school? Oh I had a brilliant career, a couple of characters in Minneapolis decided they needed a house boy, they run that in the paper and I answered it, well I’m sure they were a couple of queers but they were nice guys. Staff consisted of a housekeeper, an Irish guy and myself, and they loved to entertain. So I would wait there with my sleeve– Towel on my sleeve and that but a very educational experience I thought because they were– As I remember they had a polar exploration going on at the time and they had a lot of people Perrier, amongst others, as dinner guests, of course [unintelligible] interesting. Interviewer: “Alright now how long did you do that?” About a year and, let’s see it’s a three mile walk through the [unintelligible] for a teenager that’s not too good a life, I also had a contract and my Aunt Elizabeth in Chicago said “If you ever decide to come to Chicago just call me up, I’ll be there.” So one day I decided I’m going to improve myself from my $7 a week job to an $11 a week and I fry cook for White Castle. So I go down to downtown Minneapolis, get out of your street car and there’s about, oh 30 guys in front of White Castle and head back to the alley said “Oh that’s not too bad, I’ll get in line.” There was 200 back there, real honest guys, working people looking for the $11 job. I got right back in my streetcar, I went home, said “I guess I’ll go.”(3:35) So I came to Chicago then, spent most of my work life living there. Interviewer: “Okay, now when you got to Chicago did you find a job?” Oh there yeah, well I went to [unintelligible] the Swedish Covenant Hospital, oh by the way business is so bad, you wouldn’t think it possible, the first floor of the hospital was employee housing. We didn’t have real customers to fill it. Interviewer: “Mkay.” People couldn’t afford to go to the hospital. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Okay, and then how long did you stay at the hospital? Were you still there when the war started?” No. I roomed with some people down in the North Park neighborhood, put in high school down there and, uh… it was a painter. [He asked] Would I work for him? Well I had twice the wages if I was workin’ for over there, so I said fine. And why… why he offered me a union card I never knowed—a union card without knowing how to paint. I imagine I worked my way through college that way. Interviewer: “Okay. So did you start going to college then?” Well, I started in North Park and after a few years in high school I graduated and went to Northwestern. (5:09) Interviewer: “Okay. I guess I thought you said you had gone to high school in Minnesota?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, but now you went to high school again in Chicago, or you went to college in Chicago?” I went to college, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay it’s college, okay. All right and what were you doing when Pearl Harbor happened? Were you in school, or?” No, I was working those days as a painter. And I remember at a little restaurant—whatever breakfast, lunch, or whatever it was that day when Pearl Harbor was lost and I thought “Well, here we go.” Because it was inevitable, you could see anybody that age was gonna be in service. Interviewer: “Now, did you enlist or did you wait for them to come after you?” �Erickson, Stanley Well, no, they didn’t have to come after me. I registered the first draft of October 1940. I never saw active duty until 1943, if you can believe that. And still I’m just—well they had a list and I happened to be 3 from the bottom of the list, so the next 6 months they enrolled 100 new guys and they put them at the top of the list. And after 3 years they discovered “Hey, nobody at the end of that list is ever gonna come up!” so they turned it around. Interviewer: “Oh, so you got up there.” “We’ll take off the bottom of the list next!” Interviewer: “So what year did you get drafted?” That was about 1938, I think. Interviewer: “Well, to be drafted…” (7:15) Yeah? Interviewer: “The draft doesn’t start until 1940. So you got drafted in ‘43? Cause that was the day you gave me before. So when does Uncle Sam call you? Cause the war is already started, and you weren’t being drafted there for awhile. That’s right. Interviewer: “And so it’s after Pearl Harbor that you get drafted.” That’s right. Well… That’s kinda… I kinda flew to report for Florida. Country Club—been away to the Country Club for basic training. Interviewer: “Okay. Did you say in Florida?” �Erickson, Stanley Yeah. Interviewer: “Was that in Miami beach?” Boca Raton. Interviewer: “Boca Raton, yeah, okay. And the Army air forces were trading people down there.” Right. Interviewer: “So basically you were drafted into the Army Air Force and, okay—how did you get from Chicago to Florida?” (8:14) In Florida? Interviewer: “How did you get from Chicago to Florida?” I got orders to report down there, got a train and went down there. Interviewer: “Okay. Now did you just go as a private citizen or were you on a trip train?” A private citizen. Interviewer: “Okay. You just got on a train and went there.” Oh yeah, I got a little goodie bag with my stuff. Uncle Sam, here I am, how are ya doin? Interviewer: “Okay. And then when you got down to Florida, what did they do with you?” �Erickson, Stanley Did a lot of marching. A lot of marching. Physical training is what it was. Interviewer: “Okay. And what kind of accommodations did you have? Where were you staying?” Well we stayed right in a hotel. I remember my daughter coming down there later after when I’d been out of service, and visited the Boca Raton club, and she said “This is where you’ve been staying!” Yeah? “And this is where you ate?” And our dining room was looking out over the bay on three sides. Beautiful. But they had one embarrassment. And the military always comes and they always get themselves in trouble. They got the paid rations for seniors…and the guy they got, they charged for those rations. Ended up with more money than they know what to do with. Crazy! They had a table at the exit of the dining room: cigarettes, cigars, candy. Any kind, any time you wanted, help yourself; they had to get rid of their money. (10:02) Interviewer: “Okay.” Then from there to New Haven, Connecticut. Interviewer: “Okay, and what did you do there?” While I was there it was a Tech school. Had one of these things, we’re picking the wires apart and putting ‘em back together, why not. Interviewer: “Okay. So, were they training you to be like an aircraft mechanic, or?” I… assume that. Interviewer: “Okay.” I assume that. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “And how long did you stay? Did you finish that program or did they move you to something else? No no no, that was a terminal program you may have got, you were assigned duty from there. I got my evaluation, see here’s how stupid the military can be. They’ve got several other guys graduating, they’re going somewhere but they won’t tell ‘em where they’re going. So where am I supposed to go? Then I go ahead, get suitcase packed, and I'm ready to go. Well, I find out then that I’m assigned to the Boeing School in Seattle—what base it is I don’t know. Interviewer: “Okay. So the Boeing School in Seattle, was that being run by Boeing aircraft?” Oh yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. And—” Right on their property. Interviewer: “Okay. So now when you go there what job do you have? Or do you go to school some more? I’m going to school there at Boeing. Interviewer: “And what were they teaching you?” Well there they were more concerned about the mechanics of the airplane, and the engine particularly. Interviewer: “And which aircraft were they training you for?” B-29. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Okay. And that’s a new bomber that’s coming in with a lot of new technology in it so it’s different from everything else.” It’s completely developed. Interviewer: “Not completely developed! They’re still working on it.” Oh yeah? (12:18) Interviewer: “Alright.” You would've been enjoying the assembly project. They were built in sections and you could see on the aircraft where the seams are. So one comes from Boeing, one comes from somewhere in California, and they all assemble that. And they’re put up pretty good there. There’s a big metal ring at the end of each compartment but somebody’s gotta be holding it. To assemble this thing, you gotta get four big black guys with sledgehammers and drop it. And it lines up, and they start hammering it until they could line it up and bolt it together. It was a scary process. Interviewer: “Okay, now once you—and what were they training you to do? Was that to work on the engines or?” Before I was an air crewmate. Interviewer: “Okay.” Cause that’s what they did with me. Interviewer: “Okay, so you were going to be air crew? What? �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “You were going to be air crew? You would work inside the aircraft.” Right, right. Interviewer: “Okay. And were you going to be there—what would your job inside the plane be? Because you’re not a pilot, so what—” No no no. I was set to be a flight engineer, so the training is best, you went along with that. Didn’t always fit. Interviewer: “Now the training to be a flight engineer while you’re in Seattle, did you go and fly in the B-29s there?” Actually I don’t know. That’s about when I’m twenty…four years old, and I report to Denver. First time I’ve ever been in an airplane. (14:06) Interviewer: “So were you testing the B-29s in Denver?” They were testing us. They had a [unintelligible] 14 consoles. Engineers control the station, these ships, and nobody knew which of the 14 guys was operating the ship. It was interesting. And you didn’t know yourself whether you were—It was simulating controls but you might actually be controlling. Interviewer: “So you’re working with simulators, you weren’t flying.” Oh we’re flying. The simulator’s in flight. Interviewer: “Okay. Now at what point did you finish all of your training? Did it take until 1945 or were you done in ‘44?” �Erickson, Stanley Our training, I figured, turned in abruptly one day. I failed and crashed. I was in one of the regular crews for that group… you are that crew, and we’re supposed to be meeting again in Kansas, before the end of that year. Interviewer: “Now once you get to Kansas now does your air crew now train together and do you?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. And now you’re flying regularly, or?” Regularly, oh yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. Now did they have the whole crew together: the air officers and the enlisted men?” Yeah, oh yeah, they hold a whole crew there. Interviewer: “Alright. Now at that point what rank did you have? And were you still enlisted?” (15:57) No no, I got my commission in New Haven when I graduated from the airline. Interviewer: “Alright. So you’re a flight engineering officer, in effect.” Right. Interviewer: “Alright. And did you have your whole crew together or just the officer? Oh no, whole crew stayed. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Okay. Alright. Now what made a B-29 different from a B-24 or a B-17?” Much more automatic. Much more remote control. You didn’t—in a B-24 the gunner had to sit in the turret, the guns are right here. A B-29? You sat in an easy chair and [the placement of the guns] might be above his head, might be 60 feet away. Interviewer: “Okay. And so was there only one gunner?” (17:02) Oh no no no. The bomber was a gunner… the top gunner, and two side gunners, tail gunner. Interviewer: “Okay. Alright so you had different men operating different sets of guns, but doing it by remote control.” Right. Interviewer: “Okay. Alright and then did the plane fly higher than the other bombers?” Oh yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. Alright, it basically flies higher, has a longer range, a bigger bomb load. It’s the next generation.” Theoretically yes. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. Now, was Kansas—was that your final stage of training?” Yes, basically. Because there was the fatal crash at Wichita and another crew, cause this crew was going overseas in just weeks! We are. Interviewer: “Okay. So you had been a crew in training in Denver…” �Erickson, Stanley Oh yeah. Interviewer: “And then they moved you to Kansas to fill in for that crew that crashed. So you’re not really in Kansas for very long.” No, we had a foreshortened training. Interviewer: “Okay and then off you go with the rest of your unit and what squadron were you in?” …oh, what squadron were we? Interviewer: “The 487th squadron, was that right?” (18:25) 487? Sounds right. Interviewer: “Okay. That’s what you told me, so, alright. So do you know when you went overseas? Was it 1945 or still ‘44?” …Kinda cloudy isn’t it? Interviewer: “Well, were you in Kansas during the winter or the summer?” No, we got out of there by winter. Interviewer: “Okay, that’s probably the end of ‘44 or beginning of ‘45, somewhere in there. Okay, alright. Now once the squadron is ready to go, how do they get you to the Pacific? Do you fly out or do you take a boat?” It depended on what they drew straws. 10 crews got planes. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Okay.” Five crews were flown out there immediately and five others they just waited to see what they were gonna do with us. It’d been awhile but they did, they finally did get us planes. We were just waiting til the planes were built. Interviewer: “Okay. So you all basically flew your own planes over once you had a plane.” Yeah. Interviewer: “And then where were you flying to? Where was your base going to be?” Saipan. Interviewer: “Okay so the Mariana Islands, alright. And do you remember where you stopped on the way out?” (20:03) Honolulu and Kwajalein Interviewer: “Okay so you have to jump, refuel a couple times to get out to the Mariana Islands.” To refuel at one point, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, now you get to Saipan and then—” What’s funny was, it was within our range but they didn’t trust us, you know but. Interviewer: “Okay so, then you get to Saipan and what kind of facilities did you have in Saipan, what was the base like?” �Erickson, Stanley Ten thousand, wooden for us, steel structure—tent structure. Oh, incidentally we got orders when we left Hawaii: shield word, you don’t know where you’re goin’, you take off but nobody’s supposed to know where we’re going so we landed in Kwajalein, stayed there over night and then go over to Saipan. At 6 o’clock, Tokyo Rose reads my name, rank and serial number. [unintelligible] A little unnerving to think that they knew exactly where you were. Well they set up a couple binoculars and they dropped you where they want, I guess. Interviewer: “Alright, welcome to the Marianas, now did you start flying missions right away or did that take a while? After you got to Saipan.” It didn’t take very long. I’m trying to think how long it… it was a few days in all. Interviewer: “Okay. And when you do start flying, where are you flying, what’s the mission?” (21:50) Anywhere in Japan, basically. Interviewer: “Okay.” Mostly the southern—that’s Industrial Japan, the southern half of it. The northern half is rice fields. Interviewer: “Alright. Now when you would go on these bombing missions, did you encounter Japanese fighter planes or anti-aircraft fire?” Yeah. Both at the time, to the greatest degrees imaginable. Interviewer: “And did your plane ever get hit?” A couple of times. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “But not badly enough that you didn’t crash or had to crash land anywhere?” No, no no no. The last major repair [unintelligible] took up to more… 45 days to patch, 242 this side. 20 millimeters leave a nasty gap, which is what the Japs used—they didn’t have any 50s they had 20s. Interviewer: “Okay, so your plane did get hit pretty badly at one point.” Oh it sure as gosh did. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. And did you see any Japanese aircraft?” Quite frequently. (23:25) Interviewer: “Were they shooting down other planes in your squadron or in your group?” Yes and no, it depends on who's shooting who that day. They would attack us, we would… you knew where to fire, they’ve got a couple and they’re up here not right there. This side or other reasons. Interviewer: “Did you have fighter escorts?” After a while, not originally. They didn’t have any at first. Interviewer: “Now were you already flying missions when the battle was going on in Iwo Jima? Cause one of the reasons to take Iwo Jima was to use that as a fighter base.” Right. Interviewer: “So then they could give you escorts.” �Erickson, Stanley That’s right. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, but you were probably there pretty much from the beginning of the major bombing campaign against Japan cause that’s pretty much all ‘45.” Oh yeah, oh yeah. Interviewer: “All right. Then how many missions did you fly? 35. Interviewer: “Okay. And when did you fly your 35th mission? Did you keep flying until the end of the war or did they stop you after 35?” (24:50) No you stopped at 35. You were originally were supposed to fly 25, it kept getting stretched a wee bit as it went on. Interviewer: “Okay, Now did they do that because not enough of you were getting shot down?” They didn’t have replacements enough. Interviewer: “Oh, that too. Now did you have a sense that what you were doing was dangerous or did you not really expect to be hit?” I briefly said I was injured. Interviewer: “Now do you remember who your pilot was?” Yes, Ed Cutler. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “And what did you think of him?” I was one man, an officer, and him. A good pilot. Interviewer: “And do you remember any of the other men in the crew?” Well I worked most closely with the Navigator, Don Julan. Back and forth, we kept marks on each other: I knew where he was and he knew how much gas I had. So if one of us is hit, the other had the basic information. In fact I kept in touch with him till well after the war. Interviewer: “All right. And did you have much of a sense of how the larger war was going? Did you think this was gonna go on forever or did you think sooner or later the Japanese had to give up?” (26:40) Well they would have had to, but thank God they didn’t have to. When we’re flying and when [unintelligible] we took fire paper and started burning the rice fields just before harvest. What were you gonna do if the paddies burned all their rice? What would you do? How would you have fed them? Thank goodness we didn’t, we finally had succeeded. Interviewer: “So burning the rice fields, is that the next thing you would have done?” That would have been the next—yeah. In fact our plan was already [unintelligible], the day before they scrubbed it. Interviewer: “Okay. So it sounds like you were still flying until the end of the war, and they didn’t stop you after… Did you get to 35 missions and then August or right at the end of the war? Or had they already stopped you from flying?” What day did I got my 35th… it was in the summer some time. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Yup. Cause you were talking about what the next mission was going to be, and that was sounding like you were still gonna fly.” Well we were. At that point we were still flying. Interviewer: “Okay. Alright, and do you remember hearing about the atomic bomb?” Oh yeah. Oh yeah, very much so. Very much, I knew. Interviewer: “And when that news came did you know what it meant? What it meant? Interviewer: “Yeah.” Oh yeah, yeah. Definitely. (28:30) Interviewer: “Did you think that was gonna end the war?” No. Interviewer: “It was just a bigger bomb.” It was just a bigger bomb, the Japanese would just fight harder. Interviewer: “But instead the Japanese surrendered.” Yeah. Interviewer: “All right. Do you remember when the news came about the Japanese surrendering?” �Erickson, Stanley Oh yeah. Interviewer: “And what kind of reaction was there on Saipan?” Well first of all, the other way, that means starving just as many Japs. There’s no way to feed them. Interviewer: “Okay but I guess I was asking once the Japanese did surrender then what was the reaction where you were, when you learned that news?” It was about time. Interviewer: “And how long did you stay on Saipan after the Japanese surrendered?” I don’t even remember the dates now. Yes, quite awhile, but I don’t remember the time. (30:25) Interviewer: “Okay, so you were just kinda stuck there and did they fly any of the B-29s up to Japan after the war was over for transport or anything else?” Oh we used them for transport yeah. Interviewer: “Okay and so did you fly to Japan yourself or no?” No. I’d been there enough. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, now at this point did you plan to stay in the military after the war or were you gonna go back home to civilian life?” No, I was gonna get out. Interesting, one Commander—[unintelligible] was well gosh the military life is pretty nice, when I get back home I’ll stay in the service. Let me tell you �Erickson, Stanley something: I wear a star here to run this place, but here on my uniform are two stripes. That’s my permanent rank when I go back: Officer. I start there. So, everybody’s on call. Nobody’s—I don’t think anybody’s [unintelligible] to say that. Interviewer: “Okay. So after the war what did you do? You come home and then what? Did you go back to Chicago or did you go somewhere else?” No I came back to Chicago, built a little basement apartment, built in return for a two-years rent so. Interviewer: “Okay.” (32:14) I got nothing else to do, so I’ll do that. I’ve been going to the North Park college in the neighborhood so I went back there for a while, then I went to Northwestern. Interviewer: “And what did you study at Northwestern?” Automatic control it was basically. Interviewer: “Okay, so kinda electrical engineering sorts of things?” Oh yeah, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. All right and then did you go get a job in that field?” Yes. So I went out to work for Honeywell. Had some interesting projects for them. Interviewer: “Now did you stay in the International Guard at that time, or did you join the International Guard?” Why did I join that? �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Had you been in the Reserves when you got out?” I served—I was in France and National Guard. Interviewer: “Right. I guess the question was—” When I came back from there I was separated from the National Guard temporarily. Interviewer: “Okay. So I guess, I think earlier before we started running camera you told me that you joined the International Guard because you didn’t want to go to Korea.” That’s right. (33:54) Interviewer: “So the Korean war started and you were afraid you were gonna be called back? Oh yeah, definitely. We couldn’t retire cause they wouldn’t accept our resignation, wouldn’t do anything. Interviewer: “Okay. So you still had a Reserve commission at that point?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, there we go. So you’re still officially a Reserve Officer, they can call you if they want you.” That’s right. Interviewer: “And so you join the International Guard to get around that.” �Erickson, Stanley That’s right. Interviewer: “Okay. So tell me about France: what were you doing in France?” Locating dependent housing. Not an obvious career for that but that was something they needed, so I did that for quite awhile. Interviewer: “Okay.” Only there wasn’t any housing, that was the trouble. And you’d relocate—you had access to three or four places but they were from backyard farm houses to basement apartments in the city and… you tell the guys in advance, and note to the web, “This is all we’ve got, there ain’t any more.” Well they didn’t believe it, they came over anyways and went “Well, where’s the housing?” There it is. I didn’t like that too well. They were led to believe they were gonna get more than they got, or they convinced themselves that they were gonna get more. (35:30) Interviewer: “Do you remember how long you spent doing that? Was that just a year or?” About a year. Interviewer: “Okay.” Oh and the other thing was buying nails. Everywhere I went, every time we went to a hardware store we bought all the nails they had. For some reason Americans couldn’t make nails, and you needed nails. Well… goodbye. Ten kilos here, five kilos there, what the price? Doesn’t matter? Give us nails, papers, whatever you’ve got. They’re pricey where we’re from! Interviewer: “Were you doing that in France?” Yeah. �Erickson, Stanley Interviewer: “Okay. All right, I guess we were building a lot of things there and didn’t have enough supplies.” Right. Interviewer: “All right. So when you got back from France did you get out of the International Guard or did you stay in for a while?” I stayed in for a while. (36:52) Interviewer: “All right. Now if you think back to the time that you spent in the service, are there other stories or other memories that you’ve got that you haven’t talked about yet?” …No, not really. Interviewer: “Okay. You’ll remember after I finish.” Oh yeah, no, I’ll think over it. Interviewer: “Yeah.” Ask me an hour from now. Interviewer: “Okay, Well that’s sort of how this works. But in the meantime you actually have given us some pretty interesting material so I’d like to thank you for taking the time to share this story today.” � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context EricksonS2163V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Erickson, Stanley Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10 Title A name given to the resource Erickson, Stanley (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Description An account of the resource Stanley Erickson was born in Harris, Minnesota in 1919 and after high school worked his way through college as a painter in Chicago. Erickson was drafted into active duty in 1943 and went to Boca Raton, Florida for basic training and then went to a tech school in New Haven, Connecticut, where he trained to be an aircraft mechanic and was commissioned to be a flight engineering officer. After tech school, Erickson went to the Boeing School in Seattle where he learned to work on B-29s before briefly being sent to Kansas to continue his training. In 1945 Erickson left for Saipan, Japan and flew 35 missions while he was there, lasting until the end of the war. After the war Erickson joined the International Guard and served in France for a year before returning to Chicago to attend Northwestern and study and work in automatic control. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Lest We Forget Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/703dba5be3bfe7245d0fafead1b79784.mp4 f36862e223ba1809698b9d6daf216f60 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f40242c374caf986818469907492d8f7.pdf ee1ef31e6e477cb21286a9eea6689a91 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: Erik, we’re going to begin with: Could you give us some background as to what you were doing before you even heard about the AVG? ERIK SHILLING: I just heard rumors of the Flying Tigers or the AVG at that time and I happened to have been trained in pursuit - it was called in those days - pursuit aviation and for some reason or other I had been transferred to a long-range reconnaissance outfit called the 41st reconnaissance outfit, which was bombers. I also thought that sooner or later - the war had already started in Europe - and sooner or later that we would probably get into it. My feeling was - two things - that I could possibly get back into fighters and the other thing, by getting into fighters and going to China and fighting against the Japanese, I thought their equipment and possibly their training wasn't as good as the Germans and that by going over there I could get combat experience at less expense - so to speak then when my contract was over in China I could come back to the States and possibly get back into fighters. Because I felt that flying bombers were almost like a sitting duck. You can't dodge, it doesn't depend on your skill at all and you just follow your instrument there and the bombardier is in charge of the flight. You can't make any dodges or anything like that. Whereas a fighter pilot, I think it depends more upon his personal skill as to his survival. �FRANK BORING: Let's go back even further, what actually got you interested in becoming a pilot to begin with? ERIK SHILLING: Well my dad was trained and was a pilot in World War I and my earliest recollections were about flying and going to the air field and watching airplanes taking off and landing and this goes back I think the first recollection is about 3 or 4 years old. I can't really remember ever wanting to do anything other than be a pilot. FRANK BORING: Where did you begin your training as a pilot? ERIK SHILLING: Randolph and Kelly. That's the only training base there was at that time. It wasn't until after - I don't know whether the war started or at least the emergency started - then they changed to many other bases of training. But at that time it was only the one. We were only graduating when I went through in 1938 is when I graduated. My class graduated 80 and we only had 3 classes a year at that time, so the number of graduates from the school at that time were rather low. There was no need for any more schools. Now Randolph was primary and basic and Kelly was advanced. FRANK BORING: Once you had graduated, what were your options basically at that time as a pilot? ERIK SHILLING: When we were going to Kelly Field, we had options - we had attack aviation as it was called, which later became bombers - well attack aviation, pursuit aviation, observation and bombardment. So there were only the four options at that time and going from basic to Kelly, we would apply for which one we wanted and normally I guess they would probably try to give you what you wanted. I had put in for pursuit and fortunately got it. FRANK BORING: Tell us if you will during that period of time, what were you doing? You got into pursuit, what were you actually doing? You get into pursuit, you're now at the field, you're doing pursuit. I'm trying to get to why you were even tempted to go to China, but I �don't want you to get into that part yet. I want to kind of get an idea of what you were doing before then that led you to finally go "I don't want to stay here, I want to go somewhere else." ERIK SHILLING: Pursuit was sort of the hot rod of aviation and as I say it depended - we felt that the better pilots went into pursuit. Now of course the bomber pilots and observation may disagree with that, but anyhow one thing that flying school taught you was that when you came out of the flying school, you were the best pilot in the whole world. If you didn't think that you had no business being in combat. But anyhow, flying a small single engine airplane, you were more on your own, you had a heck of a lot more fun, you didn't have to think of other people in the airplane, etc. It just appealed to me more - fighter pilot than bomber, the slow, lumbering airplane. So we would also have a lot more interesting things that we could do like mock dog fighting and acrobatics, which I love, and formation flying. Of course the others get that but not the type of formation flying that we would get in fighters because that would entail somewhat of formation - acrobatics practically. FRANK BORING: What were you doing in the latter part of 1940, early part of 1941 before you actually got involved with AVG? What were you actually doing then? ERIK SHILLING: I was in the 41st Reconnaissance Squadron flying B-18's. We were really supposed to get B-17's but the B-17's were not coming off the production line rapidly enough so we were flying B-18's. At that time the war had already started in Europe and we were doing submarine patrol - one of the things that we would do - submarine patrol. We would go out over the Atlantic about 150 miles offshore and another airplane up at Mitchell Field - about 3 or 4 hundred miles north of us would be doing the same thing. He would go out and then we would rendezvous over the ocean and it was also a navigational exercise and problem. Then when we would rendezvous we would turn around and go back to our respective air fields. We were on the lookout for submarines and would report �them. I don't know what the Pentagon or Washington did at that time, but anyhow that was one of the things that we were doing fairly early in the war - was submarine patrol. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear about the opportunity that was opening up in China? ERIK SHILLING: I just heard rumors. I don't know why no one - I guess because at that time there weren't any fighters based at Langley Field. I just heard through rumors that they were trying to locate some pilots to go over and defend the Chinese cities and the Chinese roadways for their supply routes and so on. So as I say, I felt that was a good opportunity to possibly get back into fighters or pursuit at that time. FRANK BORING: What did you do then to find out about these rumors? ERIK SHILLING: I located the office, which was in New York, one of the offices. I flew up to New York and went in town and I was interviewed by a fellow named Skip Adair, who I met again later on. During the interview he was quite insistent that he was wanting pilots who had P-40 time and I did not have any P-40 time, although I tried to point out to him that I had P-36 time. The P-36 was identical to the P-40 except it had a radial engine and the P-40 had an Allison liquid cooled in-line engine. Then I also said that also I had flown the P-37 which was also the forerunner of the P-40. It looks a little bit like a P-40, but a little bit longer nose and it was an experimental thing. I said also I've flown a Bell Pusher which was called the Aircuda and it had two Allisons. So I said I'm familiar with the engine and I'm familiar with pretty much the same type of airplane. So when I left I was not convinced - I didn't think that he was gonna accept me because he wasn't too promising. So I went on back down to Langley Field and I sort of forgot about it. The first thing I knew my C.O. called me in and gave me a telegram. The telegram was from the Chief of Air Corps. Now I don't know whether he personally had sent it, but it was under his name, �asking me why I hadn't resigned my commission. So I was only too happy to comply and I sent my resignation in right away and about two days later I was on my way. I went up to Washington which was my home and visited my folks and then drove on out to - went by Randolph and Kelly, I wanted to take a look at those airfields where I'd started from - and then came on out to Los Angeles. FRANK BORING: What did you actually tell your parents? ERIK SHILLING: When I had resigned my commission and I was visiting my folks, I had told them that I was going to China and that they needed volunteers to help defend the cities. My dad, of course being a pilot, I suppose sort of would like to have gone along with me, but my mother - although she never gave any indications of not wanting me to go - I'm sure that she had some feelings about my leaving. But they were both very much supportive. FRANK BORING: Why did you then go to the two fields where you first started training? ERIK SHILLING: As I say, it's sort of where I started and both - Randolph is a beautiful field and I've always had a sort of like home in a sense it's my aviation home where I'd started and Kelly - just reminded me of many of the friends that I had made there and I just wanted to see it again. FRANK BORING: It seems to me it was almost like a return to your aviation roots. A sort of a soul searching - before you got to China. Would you say that was true? ERIK SHILLING: I guess - I don't really know how to answer that question. But it was - Randolph and Kelly meant a whole lot to me and it was right at the end of the depression when I first went in and jobs were hard to find and I appreciated the opportunity I had. That the Army Air �Corps at that time had given me to earn a living. I felt pretty close to the Army Air Corps at that time. (break) ERIK SHILLING: The controversy that was going on really had started a little bit before this. As a matter of fact the bomber made by Martin was the first bomber to hit 200 miles an hour and this was in the Pentagon and Congress, etc. They almost did away with fighter airplanes because they felt why would we need fighter airplanes when this particular bomber was faster than the fighter and the fighter couldn't even catch it. At that time then, the Boeing P-26 came out and sort of equaled the speeds and then the Seversky, the P-35 made by the same outfit that made the Thunderbolt later on, same designer, then it was much faster and so the fighters - from that point on - faster than the bombers. But up to that point the B-10 was faster than any present day fighter at that time. FRANK BORING: At the time though were you aware of the controversy between the two? ERIK SHILLING: Yes but as I say it had sort of been resolved when I went to the flying school and it was no longer a controversy that the bomber needed protection rather than was capable of - although early in the war they thought that the B-17 would have been capable of protecting itself, but that didn't last too long either. They started putting more and more guns on it, because the original bomber had no tail gunner and so on. But as the war developed then the bombers started being shot down in pretty large numbers, they realized that they needed protection of the fighters and that's when they developed the longer range P-51. Although the P-51 was originally bought by the British, but it was one of the better fighters in the war. FRANK BORING: Once you left - said goodbye to your parents and went back to the fields, where was your next stop? Was this to San Francisco? �ERIK SHILLING: No, Los Angeles. We stayed in Los Angeles and Mr. Pawley, who was head of CAMCO, which was Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company, they had a manufacturing outfit in China and he arranged for us to stay at the Jonathan Club. The Jonathan Club was, and I guess still is, a millionaire's club and he was a member of this club and quite a group of us stayed at this Jonathan Club until we went to San Francisco just a couple of days before we sailed for China. FRANK BORING: Could you give us an idea of what it was like? You knew the reasons why you were going to China, but was this the first time you actually met a whole other group of what turned out to become some of your closest friends - a remarkable group of people. What was your first impression of meeting all these young adventurous kind of guys in this millionaire's club? ERIK SHILLING: It didn't really impress me too much because we all had the same most of us were fighter pilots and we felt that I guess we were brothers under the skin or whatever. Incidentally, Moose Moss was - I met at the Jonathan Club there and became very close friends with Moose and a very special friend of mine. FRANK BORING: After you left there it was on to San Francisco. Could you explain your stay there? How long you were there and just what it was like there? ERIK SHILLING: I can't remember the exact day that we arrived in San Francisco, but we sailed on the 16th of July on the Jaegersfontein. So we only stayed in San Francisco I think about 4 days - something like that. We were in the biggest group that went out, also the first group that had pilots on board. We sailed on July 16th. Took us about 5 days to get to Honolulu and on the way we used to tune in to probably the person who turned out to be Tokyo Rose. They had an English news broadcast which we used to listen to and they claimed that they knew who we were and what we were going over there for and that the boat would never get there. I guess �Washington took that to heart because one day out of Honolulu we were stopped by two American cruisers. One was the Northampton and the other was the Salt Lake. We were then escorted all the way to the Taurus Straits, which is just north - the narrow waterway between I think Borneo and Australia. There the two cruisers left us and we heard over the radio that these two cruisers were making a courtesy call to Brisbane, so that was the first time that I knew or most of us I guess knew the names of these two cruisers and when we went through the Taurus Straits, we were met by a Dutch cruiser and the Dutch cruiser escorted us all the way to Singapore. The Captain of the Jaegersfontein had some perishable groceries or whatever on board and he wanted to get rid of us and get rid of these perishables and so on and anyhow we got to Singapore and through the British and the American Attaché and so forth, the Dutch Captain was convinced that he should continue on so we then went from Singapore to Rangoon unescorted. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 1 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes his background in pursuit aviation before joining the American Volunteer Group and the journey he took to to become a Flying Tiger. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e0abe70ec8d7bf8f098079d74b9ceb23.mp4 b408d5b54d5f158d4268c7a37f3dec20 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9662dcd0daf0c1a74792eb12d6a755f2.pdf 6c1be5abb104d96a20269a91812005c8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: What did you know about China before you actually went out there? ERIK SHILLING: What I knew about China at that time was only what I'd seen in the newsreels and it was showing what was commonly called the Rape of Nanking and the atrocities that had been done on the children and the women and the bayoneting of them and one picture stands out in my mind most of all was this little kid, maybe 9 months or a year old sitting in the middle of this devastated railroad station, just crying up a storm. It looked like the little kid had been burned or something like that and my heart went out for him and the other people that were suffering. So this was another reason why I went over there, was because how I felt and I wanted to do something about it. FRANK BORING: In San Francisco or even before that, what were you told about how much you could talk about your mission? I mean the secrecy involved. ERIK SHILLING: When I left New York I wasn't aware I was being even considered so I didn't really - wasn't given any secrecy, but I assumed that we shouldn't talk about it. It wasn't until we got to really Los Angeles and San Francisco and also when I got my passport and my passport didn't say pilot, it said an accountant. As I say, I even have problems balancing my checkbook today. So that was the �worst scenario that you could have. But other guys had such as farmers and so on, so I knew that we were going over under cover and that we were told that we should not talk about it of course, our own safety being involved. But it was no secret to the Japanese, it was secret to everybody but them I suppose. I don't know how they found out about it. The Japanese as I say - on the boat we found out that they knew who we were and why we were going over. They said that they were not gonna let the boat get there. Of course the Dutch boat was belligerent at that time. I found out later on that there were about 5 German U-boats out there and it was very likely that we could have been sunk by these German U-boats and quite a number of times as we went over, we would stop and the two cruisers would catapult a scout plane off and they would be gone a couple of hours and come back and they would do the same thing. So occasionally we would lay in the water just dead still for almost a full day. Then in the evening they would bring these sea planes back up onto the catapult and stow them and then we'd be on our way again. What was the trip over like? What type of things did you do for recreation? What kind of camaraderie developed? ERIK SHILLING: The Navy had played a game called Acey-Deucy which was a lot of fun and all of the games could be a gambling game, but I wasn't much into gambling so I didn't play any poker. There was another game that was quite popular, cribbage, which was a lot of fun and took a lot of skill, the same thing acey-deucy really takes some skill. Then there was shuffle board that we played sometimes. Then when the bar was open, we'd go in the bar and shoot the breeze and talk about flying and what we might be up against, and spend the rest of the evening in the bar. Incidentally, we ran out of whiskey - out of all drinks before we got to Singapore and then when we got to Singapore, fortunately the Captain of the ship restocked the bar, so we had enough to last us until we got to Rangoon. �FRANK BORING: What were the fellow passengers like and how did you get along with the people who were on board? ERIK SHILLING: They all were real nice people for the most part. There were a couple who I sort of wondered about, and some of them quit early before the war started. I hesitate to say who I didn't particularly like, but there were only two or three that were that caliber. The rest were real nice guys. FRANK BORING: I guess I'm looking at the passengers that weren't AVG. As I understand there were missionaries on board. We've heard a number of stories about different things that happened. I was wondering what your perspective was? ERIK SHILLING: I don't know why, but I didn't get involved or get to talk to them very much. Some of the other guys did, but I really can't recall holding a conversation with them for too long a period of time. FRANK BORING: There was this battle of the music going on. ERIK SHILLING: Well R. T. Smith and Red and - I've forgotten now - but there about 5 or 6 of them that used to harmonize and of course the more they drank the more they became unharmonizing, but it was always fun to listen to them. One of the favorites was of course "Down by the Old Mill Stream" and stuff like that. Barbershop type harmony. FRANK BORING: On the trip over did you have a chance to get on land and go explore some of the other areas? ERIK SHILLING: No. Our ship, although it anchored overnight at Batavia and Jakarta, we didn't get ashore until we got to Singapore and were only about 24 hours there at Singapore, where incidentally, one of the guys missed the boat and he was - the dock area at Singapore is a great big long dock and probably even a mile long - and he got to the dock just as we were throwing the ropes off and we were �already away from the pier, so this guy was running and hollering and jumping up and down the whole length of this dock, for this great big boat to stop for him. But anyhow apparently the harbor police saw him and the boat that went out and got the harbor police and brought him back, picked him up at the end of the pier and put him on board and so he actually made the boat, but he was afraid that he wasn't. So it was sort of funny because he was running and yelling and all that. (break) ERIK SHILLING: One of the guys - and for the life of me I can't remember what I had done to him or what I'd said to him or anything else - but anyhow he threatened to sabotage my airplane when I got out there. He was an ex-Navy guy - this same guy later on when I buzzed Loiwing at the time, he lost his glasses and stepped on them and he had to be restrained from committing murder, I guess. But then there were a couple of pilots but they were immature type of people. I felt that they were sort of like the "Ugly American" and they were irresponsible and not people who I would particularly like to be in the air and have to rely on them. So it was that type of guys that I didn't sort of cotton up to. FRANK BORING: Did you think of yourselves as soldiers of fortune or mercenaries? ERIK SHILLING: No, never did I think as a soldier of fortune. My own impression of a soldier of fortune was sort of a run-of-the-mill type who was out in the Far East or in some of these exotic places and would do anything for a buck and jump on any opportunity. We, I felt were there to do a job and the fact that we were getting better pay, I would never have gone for the pay, although it was a welcome thing. But no one in his right mind I think would go out there and let somebody shoot at them for 5 or 6 hundred bucks a month. It was the experience and the fact that I was helping my own self for later survival, the main reason why I went. �FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Rangoon, that was the first time you really had an opportunity to get off the ship and get an opportunity to see the exotic east. From what you had anticipated seeing, what did you actually find when you got off the boat in Rangoon? ERIK SHILLING: Well just before we got off the boat, we stayed overnight, we arrived too late in the evening, so we couldn't clear customs and the boat was anchored in the middle of the Rangoon River. The next morning a boat came out and there was a guy standing somewhat sort of in the bow of the boat with a pith helmet and a bush jacket and a swagger stick and looked like he just stepped off a movie set. It turned out to be a guy by the name of Boatner Carney. I liked the guy, but he just - he looked British but he wasn't and anyhow he brought the customs and immigration people and we all cleared on the boat and then when we went ashore, we were all taken to the Silver Grill, where we had dinner and from there we were herded down to the railway station. We got on the train there and they had to - because there were 125 of us - they had to reserve a couple of trains and of course those trains - first class there was not even as good as any class here in the States, rather primitive, much older trains than we had. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of what your first impressions were? What was the weather like? What was the scenery that you saw around you? ERIK SHILLING: The most impressive thing - and it may sound silly - but the most impressive thing was these gobs of red stuff and we found out later on it was the natives all chewed betel and they would spit this red stuff out - it almost looked like blood - gobs of blood all over the street. I had been to Mexico once before and down in Monterey, so it wasn't the first time I'd been overseas and I didn't - the main thing that impressed me also was the fact of the coolies and rickshaw boys and how they would run and run and run and perspiring. I didn't particularly like to see - but that was their living. But I didn't like to see a human being having to subjugate himself like myself and do physical labor, like pulling these darn �rickshaws and I sort of felt sorry for them. But as I say, I knew that that was the way they made their living. But that also impressed me quite a bit, that here these people, how some of them had to make a living. Then of course as we went up on the train, we then could see a lot of the rice fields that were being planted. Then not too much later, why it got so dark that we couldn't see. But how people had to scratch for a living was the most impressive part of that whole thing. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived - is this the base at Toungoo that you finally got to - what was your immediate impression of - you'd been anticipating coming here for a long time, you had the whole time on the ship to think about it - what did you actually find when you got to Toungoo? ERIK SHILLING: Possibly I was philosophical about the whole thing and I really wasn't as disappointed as some of the other guys, although I was impressed or unimpressed - whichever you might say - the things that impressed me the most was for instance the gravel road, and as we went by we saw one single hangar there that they had to work in and the fact that alongside of all of the roads was big deep ditches filled with gravel and we found out that this was because of the heavy monsoons it was to carry the heavy rains off, and at times even these big ditches wouldn't carry it all off. Even the airfield itself had these same ditches, but much, much bigger all around to try to drain during the monsoon rains. Then of course as we rounded the end of the runway and came back toward our barracks, the barracks were - I enjoyed it - but it left a lot to be desired. I remember one thing that we used to have a lot of different kind of insects and it was always a constant fight with the ants and we would try to tie our cookies or whatever we had and try to thwart the ants and they were the cleverest darn things. They would go down this wire and I don't know how the heck they managed to do it, but there was always a constant battle against ants getting into your stuff. We'd put the chifforobes on cans of oil and they would drop down from the ceiling - all sorts of very �clever - these damned ants. Then of course there were other big bugs, huge darn things and leeches and centipedes. Some of those centipedes were huge. One of the guys, he was putting his shirt on and he'd gotten his left arm in and he was putting this on and a doggone thing dropped down from the rafters just as he brought his shirt up and it got on his back and man, he was yelling and screaming and getting out of his clothes in a hurry. But they were painful, they had some sort of acid and they would make horrible looking welts and then they would get into scabs and so on. Then they had some ants that would excrete some sort of acid and that would be extremely painful. One of the guys by the name of Fred Hodges, we used to call him "Fearless Freddie" because he was definitely afraid of bugs and we had fans in our mess hall and it had netting to keep the bugs out but they would still get in. I'll never forget one time he came into the mess hall and this huge bug was buzzing around like a B-36 practically, low pitched thing, and it got into the fan and the fan whipped it around and threw it down on Freddie Hodges' neck and he went out the door without even opening it, he went right through the screen. So from that moment on we always called him "Fearless Freddie." � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 2 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses his motivation for wanting to help the Chinese people, the undercover trip overseas, and his first impressions upon arriving in Rangoon and Toungoo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94c1dfd1930f3e3685a2c71f41f3550e.mp4 1ee7e0cd962c12c65e2cd9411ea49649 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c514e1682871e1a210d036de9f733eae.pdf 7c0b9d5b3e41bf372be284d607b230fc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] ERIK SHILLING: During - I don't know who it was, but someone arranged for a man and woman, Burmese, to give a demonstration and a show with some snakes and they had some real long King Cobras and so on and she would - one of the things that she did was - to us most impressive - was to put her hands behind her back and lean way over and actually kiss the head of this cobra. So the other thing that impressed me though was how they knew how to handle the cobras and for instance, when the cobra was up like this, when it would start to strike it seemed like all they had to do was touch the snake on its belly and it would withdraw to maybe strike again. The other thing they would do - the same thing when they were standing they could put their toe of their foot to the side and touch the snake on its belly and the snake would also stop. FRANK BORING: If you could give us a clearer picture of the conditions in Toungoo at the time? ERIK SHILLING: Another thing which is most impressive was the frequency which many of us were plagued with diarrhea or dysentery and the toilets were separate from the main barracks there and there were only about 4 of them for each barracks and sometimes when dysentery would hit, they of course were completely full, so then you would have to revert to the jungle, which was not too far away from our barracks and we were always plagued with dysentery, the whole time I was out there. Although the medical group always tried to �do the best they could in purifying the water and seeing that our food was the best, but then many of us would go to town and have drinks at the railway station there or other places and most Americans always insist on ice anyhow, so lots of times the water we got away from the base was probably the contaminating part that caused this diarrhea. And then of course the change of diet and things like this. The food wasn't the greatest. One of the humorous parts about it was that we used to put ketchup on practically everything and believe me, it must be real bad when you're putting ketchup on cauliflower to disguise the damn taste. But that's how bad - how much the guys would do to make the food a little bit more palatable. Of course our meat was water buffalo and it was really tough. It made a man turn vegetarian - but then the vegetables weren't cooked too good either. FRANK BORING: How about the weather and just the general conditions of your daily life in terms of your clothes and washing? ERIK SHILLING: We all had problems with dampness and what we had was all of our dressers had a light bulb in them. If you didn't put your stuff in there, you would have mold overnight. But our bed sheets were always sort of damp and of course it was pretty hot and humid and then when the monsoons hit, the downpour would just be unbelievable. We'd never seen anything like it and sometimes you'd have 24 inches in 24 hours or stuff like that and that's when these ditches would be overcome and couldn't carry off all the water. A couple of times some of the monsoons caused some of the guys’ accidents. One in particular, a fellow by the name of Max Hammer went in and I guess lost control in the middle of a thunderstorm and was killed. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to all this? You had a certain anticipation of getting there, you had a job to do, what was your reaction to all this? �ERIK SHILLING: Really, the whole thing was so doggone interesting that it was really - I was afraid of missing something, so I was always looking around for the brighter side of life I guess, because I didn't want to miss anything. To the most part, it was really a lot of fun, I mean the excitement and the experience was something that I had never run across. Here we were being paid and when you get a group of guys like this, even a multi-millionaire can't duplicate it. In other words, you can go on a trip or something like this, but you don't have a bunch of guys all interested in the same thing and have the comradery that develops in situations like this, so it's for the most part, a very pleasant experience, coupled with some difficult situations and some people who were killed. You felt bad about it, but the excitement of the thing was the foremost. FRANK BORING: Let's now get into the formal duties that you were going - you were now being trained in an airplane that you'd never flown before. You were at this time getting classes in tactics, could you give us an idea of the early days when you first got there and began your training? What was it like and what were you actually doing? ERIK SHILLING: When I first got to Toungoo actually it was an RAF base… (break) ERIK SHILLING: When I first got to Toungoo it was a city - or little village and it was an RAF training camp called Keydaw and that's where Chennault had arranged to have us housed and the use of the airfield there. The field was about 4000 foot macadam strip and one hangar and then there were some buildings that he used for lecture hall - this was on the other side of where our barracks were and then when we first got there, there was only one P-40 so we didn't do any flying until - and there were some P-40's in Rangoon ready to come up, but we had to get some pilots available to fly them. So the guys who had flown P-40's before got a brief checkout and then were sent down to Rangoon to ferry the P-40's up and then as each guy got checked out they would be sent down �to pick up the airplanes too. When we first got there Chennault was not there, when I first arrived, he came down later on. My first meeting with Chennault - I had been to Rangoon picking up a P-40 and on Sunday I came back and I went up to about 16 - 18 thousand feet and I dove down and they were playing softball and I went over the softball maybe about 50 feet off the ground doing red line speed which was 480 miles an hour and I pulled it up and did a vertical roll and then went on in and landed. When I landed the mechanics that met me said Chennault got in last night and I said "Oh my God" and so - because of lack of transportation, we'd all gone into town earlier of course and bought bicycles and now most of us had bicycles and we rode all over the place on them - so I jumped on my bike and got to the baseball field and Chennault was pitching - he used to like to pitch - and so I stood on the sidelines waiting to get my butt chewed and when he retired the side he came right directly toward me and it was a big surprise - he says "That was a nice roll Shilling." So from then on, that guy was - I loved him. FRANK BORING: Once he arrived there, did he begin the courses? And if he did, can you give us an idea of what it was like to be in one of his classes? ERIK SHILLING: Not too long after we got there, he started his lecture series… (break) ERIK SHILLING: Not too much longer after we got to Toungoo and Chennault came down from Kunming, where he had been, he started a lecture series about the Japanese, the people of Japan as well and the background of the Japanese people and the airplanes, each individual airplane, what we could expect from each airplane, what we could expect from the pilots and how they were somewhat regimented, but occasionally they would go off on a tangent. I used to enjoy his lectures because he was a good speaker, good lecturer. They were always so terribly interesting and especially the way he presented them. It was almost like everything that he told us, like he was �there, an eyewitness account of everything that came about. Like he would tell us about where the guns were on specific airplanes, the size of the guns, and how fast the airplanes were, and what to expect from this kind of airplane, and where was the best way to attack for the least vulnerability to us, and their most vulnerable spot, and what to expect from the Japanese fighters. The main thing that came out of the whole thing was that it was a very simple tactic and it was so simple I think some of the guys even may have forgotten that it was a tactic, but that was don't ever turn with the enemy. You couldn't turn or try to dog fight. FRANK BORING: I'd like you to explain in a little more detail why that was such a major tactical move. If you could explain in just a little more detail about when somebody gets on your tail what you're supposed to do. ERIK SHILLING: One of the things that - I'll tell you a little bit about bombers and how to attack them and the one bomber that we were up against only had a single gun and what Chennault called a dustbin, it wasn't a turret, but it was mounted on springs or on rubber and the turret gunner would aim that gun with a rudder, sort of a rudder pedal and get it in toward the attacking plane and the springs would spray that area. It wasn't very effective and of course that's where we used to attack it. Now possibly you may have seen occasionally where you see a camera gun, a ship coming in against a fighter and it looks like the bomber is upside down. Now what has happened is that the bomber isn't upside down, the fighter is. So as you come in underneath and you're coming up on it, you want to continue shooting as long as you possibly can. So you roll inverted and you keep shooting and then before you hit him, why you pull away. Then you go back out and climb up and then do this kind of thing, because that's the most vulnerable spot on most of the bombers. I've seen camera gunships that it looks like the bomber was upside down. Then the other thing was the fact that the Japanese fighter planes were, what a lot of people here called maneuverable. That means that they had a very small turning �radius and they could turn inside the P-40 but the P-40 had a higher roll rate and higher diving speed and higher level speed, so when we got into a bad situation, we would roll and dive away from them, but we never attempted to turn with them, because they could turn inside of us and get us. This was the mistake that the military through all of the different theaters down off of Australia and New Guinea were under the impression that that's the only way to fight, was to dogfight and a dogfight of course was a turning circle. They were still doing that late in 1942 and we had been told this before 1942 started - 3 or 4 months before Pearl Harbor. It wasn't a matter of formation flying or two ships or three ships, which a lot of people consider to be tactics, but it was the fact that not to do something dumb like trying to dogfight with them. FRANK BORING: What did you know when you were in the States about the Japanese pilots and their planes? ERIK SHILLING: When I was in the military in the States, and this was the pitiful part of the whole thing, I didn't have the vaguest idea about the Japanese, the Japanese airplanes or what Japan was flying. Although as I understand it, Chennault had sent many, many reports to the Pentagon, but they never came down to the people who would need the information the most, and that was the everyday, run-of-the-mill pursuit pilot. It just was criminal that this information wasn't passed down. There are thousands of men who lost their lives because they didn't have the same information that we did. FRANK BORING: At this time you were going through what Chennault called "Kindergarten" as I understand it. There was some doubt and discussion among some of the pilots that the P-40 that you were flying really was not going to be that effective against the Japanese and that the British, for example, had an airplane that was far superior to the P-40. I wonder if you could give us some �background on that discussion and then how it was eventually resolved amongst the AVG? ERIK SHILLING: There were a group of the Navy guys who, for some reason or other, thought that the Brewster Buffalo was a better airplane than the P-40. They were RAF fellows who were based in Rangoon and so Chennault arranged to try to dispel this fact that the P-40 was not as good as a Brewster Buffalo, both airplanes were American of course, and so he arranged a dogfight with a fellow - I can remember his name even today, Squadron Leader Brandt. He had been sent from England after the Battle of Britain, sort of a rest and recreation thing to Rangoon. He also was an ace against the German 109's and had shot down more than 5 German airplanes at that time, so he was no neophyte, he'd been in combat before. So I was chosen by Chennault to dogfight this guy, so we went up over Toungoo and the British had brought up a bunch of other people. Their "Wheels" Air Marshall so-and-so and I forgot his name, but anyhow, we went up and went up to about 10,000 feet and we broke off and the common way that we used to dogfight was we'd separate and then come head-on toward one another and when our wing tips passed, we would pull up into a tight turn, tight as you could get and we'd start going around and try to get on the other guy's tail or in a position that, had you had guns or were playing for keeps, you could shoot him and it took some lead. Now some of the fellows thought that this guy in the Brewster Buffalo had made some mistakes and then there were others who thought that he wasn't much of a Tiger and my personal opinion was, of course, I was up there closer to the whole damn thing. I thought that the only mistake he had made was being in the Brewster Buffalo and not in the P-40. The other thing was I also felt after reading this article from one of the fellows in his book, that it's damn difficult to be a Tiger in a wet noodle. So as I say, the only mistake he made was being in a Buffalo and I easily beat him. So the fact was that there was no question about pilot ability really when it came right down to it. I was just in a better airplane. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 3 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes the conditions in Toungoo at the time, in addition to the meaningful experience he had as a part of the AVG and working with General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d16cbfa5c6474bef5e4a46082ee1025e.mp4 bf06fc6e5fd63279bcfd19f879294419 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99f788a20d8d929fc27b544b1337f379.pdf 979ec67dd6e35a40b9bc5e20aa76091c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: We're gonna start off with why you think Chennault asked you to be in this dogfight and if it is applicable, the incident in which you lost the engine - you said you were losing an engine - if you could go into detail about that. Why do you think Chennault asked you to be in the dogfight against the RAF? ERIK SHILLING: I hate to say this, but I think I was pretty good. I think that the roll that I did impressed Chennault. (break) ERIK SHILLING: I think the reason Chennault may have asked me to dogfight the pilot in the Brewster Buffalo was - possibly three different things. One, was I had been in a dogfight with Frank Schiel and I had gotten on Frank's tail and he had gotten into an unusual position and couldn't get out and he had to bail out of the airplane, so Chennault knew that I'd won that combat and then the other thing was my first flight in the P-40 I'd taken off and climbed up through a fairly thin overcast - the overcast was about 6000 feet high and it was only about 1000 feet thick - and I just climbed up through it and when I got to about 10,000 feet, just all hell broke loose, the airplane started shaking and the smoke was filling the cockpit, so I reached down and I turned the gas off and the switches off and everything I could think of to turn off, and I knew that being on top of the overcast, but I knew that I had just climbed up through so I reversed my course and dove down through it so I wouldn't get too �far away, because there were mountains on both sides of Toungoo - fairly high. So I dove down through this overcast and about 3 or 4 miles ahead of me I was headed right toward the airport going about 90 degrees to the runway and as I came over the field, of course it was still smoking and oil was pouring out of it and I guess everyone on the field was aware that I was having a problem, and with the excess speed I was able to make a regular pattern and come in and land. When I landed there was a high speed taxi way that led up to the maintenance hangar and I still had enough speed to go up there and I parked the airplane without any engine right in front of the hangar so they could work on it. So a lot of the guys were sort of - mainly the ground crew were rather impressed about that particular flight. FRANK BORING: During the dogfight itself, if you could give us some idea of what actually happened in the dogfight. ERIK SHILLING: In a dogfight, what you try to do of course is get the most out of your airplane and that is - verges on uncontrollable. In other words, at one stage as you're pulling into a real tight turn, if you go a little bit too far, then you've lost it and you stall and you lose ground or you might even lose altitude. So it's a matter of real fine touch with your airplane and getting the utmost from it. The other thing that I used to do was to turn in a circle from here to a sort of a 45 degree angle and then up at the top of the turn, I would purposely stall the airplane and try to snap roll it and cut diagonally across the circle and I would continue each time and I would cut it and chew off a little bit more of the circle until I finally got around. Once you're sort of on the guy's tail, then it's easier because any mistake he makes - and he's going to be doing his best - so then all you have to do is just stay in there. So consequently, once you're on his tail you've got it made and it's just a matter of just gradually working around. But it's getting on the other guy's tail that both of you are trying your best. Then when you get there, you're trying to wait for the other guy to make a mistake and from then on, as I say, you've got it made. One of the things that he did try to do, was he dumped �his gear and threw his flaps down trying to get me to overrun, but what I did instead of overrunning, I just pulled up high enough, got some altitude to see what he was gonna do and then when he decided what to do, I was back down on his tail. FRANK BORING: When you finally landed, did you get a chance to talk to him, did you guys discuss the thing? ERIK SHILLING: No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him. I wish I could have. I talked to him before we had the combat because we had to arrange certain things like how we were going to conduct it and stuff like this, but after the dogfight I didn't get to talk to him. FRANK BORING: You made a statement earlier that the main thing that he had going against him was the Brewster Buffalo, so could you give us some idea of your evaluation of the Brewster Buffalo? ERIK SHILLING: The Buffalo didn't have top speed. Its speed was maybe within 5 miles of the Zero and maybe had 10 miles on the Oscar, the Oscar is the Nakajima and a Zeke is a Zero. So it had maybe 10 miles on the Oscar and maybe 2 or 3 miles on the Zero. It could not out turn either one of them, nor could we, but it couldn't dive because the big built-in head wind, the radial engine, its diveability was not anywhere near the P-40 nor would it accelerate in the dive although the 40 was heavy, it was clean and it would pick up speed very rapidly. So those guys both in the Hurricane and in the Buffalo really didn't have much of a chance. I really felt sorry for the guys because later on when they started being shot down, I don't know what I would have done had I been in their shoes. FRANK BORING: You also said the RAF was sort of forced dogfight because of the [?]. ERIK SHILLING: The RAF, when they were fighting against the Japanese, were more or less forced into dogfight - if you don't have speed on the other plane, then you have to rely on the dogfight because you �can't escape, so you're then at their mercy and so your only alternative then is to dogfight and try to turn in the best you can and it's just a losing battle really when it comes right down to it. The only time that they would really - I feel - shoot down any of the airplanes was if they happened to have altitude which would give them speed and surprise. I think that most of their victories were because of surprise, not the fact that the Japanese had seen them at about the same time. If that occurred, why then they had a problem. FRANK BORING: During this period of time of training… (break) FRANK BORING: Give us the reaction of the guys when you landed. ERIK SHILLING: Some of the guys remarked at the time that they thought that Squadron Leader Brandt had made a couple of mistakes and another guy said that he thought that he didn't approach the combat like a Tiger and my feeling and comment would be that first of all I don't think he made any mistakes, because from my position up there, I thought that his only mistake was the fact that he was in a Brewster Buffalo and not in a P-40. Had we both been in P-40's, he could have - I don't know - I don't think he could have beat me, but possibly. He would have had a better chance. Then the other thing was, how can you be a Tiger when you're flying what I consider a wet noodle. He was not by any means a neophyte. As I said, he also had been an ace before he came out there in the Battle of Britain, so he knew what combat was about. FRANK BORING: During this period of time of training I understand that a lot of these men had never flown a P-40 before and they have different characteristics. If you can give us the perspective, give us an idea of you, yourself being there, you got a chance to fly and you did fairly well in it, but give us an evaluation, your perspective of the training of these other people. There were a lot of crashes, �Chennault at one point got very upset and grounded everybody, we need to get a better perspective of that. ERIK SHILLING: I really don't understand why some of these guys had problems with the P-40. But the problems that they did have was leveling off too high and that could have been a carry-over from flying boats which are setting up much higher and the other thing was why they were over-shooting - that might stem from an Eagle thing because many pilots when they come in high and overshoot, hesitate to go around, which they should. Lots of times a guy would run off the end of the runway because he was hesitant to go around. So I suggested to Chennault to paint a white line on each approach end about 600 meters in or so and get the guys that if they didn't have the wheels on the ground and under control at that point, that they should go around. And Chennault instilled us - now some of the guys were a little bit angry at first about my suggesting this, I don't know whether they knew that it was from me or not, but they weren't too happy about being treated as kindergarten in the airplane - but it worked. So they stopped overshooting and running off the end of the runway. One particular fellow - and this is sometimes the type of accidents that would happen - one guy, as he was taxiing in started filling out his log book - he knows who he is, but I won't mention it - and ran into a ditch and of course nosed up and got the propeller. So these things were extremely frustrating for Chennault. Another time one of the mechanics was driving along, riding his bike, going pretty fast and watching an airplane come in for a landing and ran into the aileron and damaged the aileron, so that airplane was out of commission for about a week while they were repairing the aileron. Of course he cracked a couple of ribs and so forth and he was sore, but Chennault was even sorer yet. I sort of wonder if any lesser man had these problems that he had, I would almost think that he would throw up his hands and say I quit. I think I would have. FRANK BORING: To give us a better perspective of why he was so frustrated, could you give us a better idea of the supply situation at the time? When �an airplane would turn over like that or a propeller would be damaged, why didn't you just call up the Sears and Roebuck and have them bring one down? ERIK SHILLING Our supply line was at the very end. We were just about half way around the world from either way. One example - we had two big problems - one example was tires. We were wearing the tires out and we even went to the extreme of trying to glue with rubber cement some cups on it to try to pre-rotate the wheel before touchdown so it wouldn't wear the tires out as badly. We were flying with even the cords showing on it. Although I don't believe any of them ever blew out a tire, but that was just good luck. The other was that we also started having spark plug problems and a Pan American Clipper had a full load of tires and it was turned around because of Pearl Harbor and so that had to be turned around and then those same tires had to come across Africa and India to get to us. So we had a real problem - another thing we had a problem with the guns - the guns were a different caliber and some of the ammunition was a problem. In other words, one of the things that we had was - if you charged the guns, once it had been charged and you re-charged it, which a lot of times we would originally do, the ammunition would be hot and sometimes it would sit there and cook off - cook off means that it would get so hot that it would explode and the bullet would go out and sometimes this would hit your own propeller. So lots of times you would re-charge it before this would happen to keep a cool bullet or shell in there and what happened on quite a number of cases was that the crimping on the projectile wasn't good so when it went in and you pulled the shell back out, it would leave the projectile in there and then the next shell that went home wouldn't seat and so that gun would be out of commission. So finally it got to the point that we would not attempt to charge them. Although we did get a couple of our airplanes had bullet holes from their own gun in the propeller. �FRANK BORING: During this period of time with the training, you weren't always training, there was other activities going on. As a pilot you only had so many pilots to so many airplanes. During this period of time you came up with the names of the squadrons and also distinctive markings on the airplanes. I wonder if you could go into an explanation of how the squadron names came up and how the design came up and some of the distinctive markings? ERIK SHILLING: The squadron insignias - at the time when we were developing those, I was with the Second Squadron for a short period of time and we didn't have a squadron insignia and I had been along with Ken Merritt and Lacey Mangleburg, we had been to a dinner at a Reverend Kline and on there he had a Sunday supplement and in the Sunday supplement there was a picture of a Messerschmitt 110 and they had what I call the rotogravure section, it was a sepia colored picture just photographs. Now apparently Charlie Mott was there - I mean Charlie Bond and several of the other guys were there too. But anyhow the next day I went out to the airfield along with Lacey and Ken, we'd stopped by the lecture hall and I'd picked up a piece of chalk and being the only artist in the crowd, I drew the shark's teeth on the airplane and I went to Chennault and asked him if we could use that as a squadron insignia and his answer was that he would rather have it as a group insignia. I understand - of course there were quite a few of the guys there looking at these shark's teeth airplanes, so there were other guys who very possibly were doing the same thing at the same time. So I don't really know who really was the first. I know that I did that, that morning and possibly some of the other guys did it too. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 4 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses dogfighting for General Chennault and the training the AVG experienced at the time, in addition to how the squadron insignias came into existence. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a99ae959ccb16420360a0aa1133aaca2.mp4 dcec33cfcd4566c286d3905a0e79370e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d3fb72a68f41095eecb86fa132e721a9.pdf f2b61113bae47e80b0a5518ea10b555d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling Date of Interview: 09-25-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: If you could explain to us to the best of your knowledge the origin of the Panda Bear? ERIK SHILLING: The three squadrons - the Third Squadron was the Hell's Angels, it was a very shapely girl, red with white wings painted on the side of the fuselage, just forward to the cockpit; the Second Squadron was a panda bear and to the best of my knowledge it was drawn by Bert Christman, who had been a cartoonist who was drawing Scorchy Smith; and the First Squadron was a man chasing a woman superimposed on a large green apple, which was the first pursuit and they were called the Adam and Eve's. The panda bear was of course a symbol of China and the second group felt that that was somehow or other we had to get China in there as well. (break) ERIK SHILLING: The Second Squadron was the panda bear, it was a symbol of China and it was drawn by Bert Christman, who was an artist who had been drawing a comic strip back here in the States by the name of Scorchy Smith. He also did a lot of sketching of different scenes, Burmese people, etc. and I used to see some of them. They were very well done and quite interesting. I often what ever happened to those pictures or drawings that he had made out there. FRANK BORING: One of the things that happened during the training there, was not only damage of airplanes but there were actual fatalities. If you �could describe in terms of your own personal reaction to the deaths themselves, the effect on you, the effect on morale. Realizing the seriousness of what was to come. ERIK SHILLING: Well I was group engineering for a while and whenever we would have these accidents I would have to go along to try to decide or determine what was the cause of the accident. Also Doc Gentry was another one who was on the accident investigation board and we had - I can't remember the sequence now of them - but two most impressive accidents was this Max Hammer, who had gotten caught in one of the real bad thunderstorms we had and one evening after we were all in he didn't show up and it wasn't until later on that night when a native came in and said that this airplane had crashed near his village. So he volunteered to take us to the crash and we didn't get there to the crash until maybe 11 or 12 o'clock at night and after this downpour of rain, everything was flooded and sometimes we were walking up to our knees through water and it was about 3 or 4 miles out into the jungle off the road. When we got there the airplane had crashed practically just straight in because we could tell from the high jungle trees how it had descended. It almost came in vertical. He hit so hard that it looked like about a thousand pound bomb had exploded. The mud and dirt was thrown out, the airplane crushed down upon itself and the wings they were only about this long because they'd crumbled down on to themselves. I know that he didn't know what the heck ever hit him. Then the next accident we had was on a Sunday. (break) ERIK SHILLING: An accident we had was also quite impressive because everyone on the base heard it coming. It was on a Sunday morning and Pete Atkinson was on a test flight. He was the only airplane that was flying that day and he had mentioned to the mechanics on the ground that "I'm gonna wake up the boys in the barracks" so he meant that he was gonna go up and give us a buzz job and I was awake but I was lying on the bunk - trying to keep cool with heat and the first thing I heard was the prop noise of the airplane. Now �the P-40 never had prop noise. In other words, the RPM of the propeller wasn't high enough for the propeller to make the noise, so when this prop noise - it was so unusual that all of us ran out to see what was happening. But before we got out there, we heard this muffled boom and it wasn't until years later that I found out that he possibly - some of the airplane was sonic - and it was a sonic boom that we had actually heard. So what happened was that the airplane just completely disintegrated and part of it - the engine had landed on a rice husk - a mound of rice husks maybe about 40 or 50 feet high, so it was completely intact, so was the propeller, it was all in one piece. Pete Atkinson was thrown out of the airplane. He was still strapped in his seat, so he was unconscious certainly at that time or killed, I don't know. The airplane also landed and when we ran out we could just see parts of the airplane just fluttering down. So the only thing that we could determine was the fact that he had just gone way over red line and of course a red line was 480 miles an hour and he must have been going maybe 50 miles an hour on top of that, I don't know. But perhaps some part of the airplane had flown - a piece had flown open or something and the wind caught in then just disintegrated it. FRANK BORING: What was the effect of these accidents on your fellow pilots or on you? ERIK SHILLING: My own personal feeling of every accident that I've ever heard of, you always wanted to try to find out what happened and mainly although I hate to say this - but you were somewhat relieved when you heard that it was pilot error and the reason I say this is you felt then if it were pilot error, you wouldn't do that. Now if it were something like a malfunction or something like this, then it could happen to you. But every time you heard that it was pilot error, you sort of got hardened to it and felt well hell, I won't do that - it won't happen to me. FRANK BORING: By this time you were all getting fairly proficient in the P-40. A lot of the accidents were not as frequent and you guys were getting �very good at it. Just prior to hearing about Pearl Harbor, what was the mood, what were you feeling like? You were hearing stories of the Japanese were advancing in various areas. What was your mood, you're in an airplane now and you're ready to fight, what's happening? ERIK SHILLING: It was one of excitement really and wondering. Of course we weren't always able to get all of the stories and many of the guys, we had a sort of a newspaper and we'd get this stuff from our local newspaper and then from the newspapers of Burma that were in English. I happened to be in Rangoon at the time, spent the night there and the next day I heard that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and so my thought was my immediate need was to get back to Toungoo and when I got back there, I left very early that morning and Chennault already had dawn to dusk patrol protecting Toungoo, because we had no warning there. The British had an early version of radar at Rangoon, but it was not completely dependable and the range was not too great either, maybe between 50 and 75 miles. So our warning was not too long a time and I guess it - I can't recall anyone remarking about the war at all. We just felt that now we're here and gonna have to do what we originally came for, but now there were other people involved besides us. It was sort of watered down what we would probably be up against. FRANK BORING: What were the following days like? It happened the December 8th your time, but people didn't start to see action until the 20th. What was that period of time like in terms of anticipation? Because you really thought the Japanese were coming. ERIK SHILLING: We went on a photo recon flight. It was Bert Christman, Ed Rector and myself and it was on the photo ship that we had converted - so anyhow we went to Rangoon and then from Rangoon we went to a place called Tavoy. This was on December 10th and Chennault wanted to find out what the disposition was and what to expect and we left Tavoy, climbed up to 26,000 feet and when about 50 miles �out I took over the lead and then Bert and Ed dropped back about 500 feet and 700 feet above me to protect me because I was busy directing the camera and getting the airplane set right over the top of the target and I couldn't be looking around for Japanese incoming. So I first took a picture along the whole dock of Bangkok, taking pictures of whatever ships were in the harbor and then from there I turned north and went to the airport there called Don Muang and in the photo there were 92 airplanes almost wing tip to wing tip. They'd moved in that fast by December 10th and one of the things - I had to rock the airplane up to knife edge because you're sitting right over the top of the wing and to get to position the airplane you had to go knife edge to get the airplane and then I would start the picture going and it was automatic then and then when you finished your photo run, you'd turn it off. What happened was on this knife edge the oil pump was uncovered and it started pumping air, consequently the oil pressure went down to zero, but while I was doing this I wasn't aware of it, so then when I turned and started back to Rangoon, I looked down and the oil pressure gauge was on zero and I thought what the - a hell of a way to start a war, that I would wind up already as a prisoner of war. But then the oil pressure started fluctuating and my heart rate went down as the pressure went up and it finally went back to normal. So I started a descent and we were indicating about 400 miles an hour, so the Japanese would never be able to catch us and we wound up back over the coast at about 10,000 feet and went on in to Rangoon and there the pictures were developed by the RAF and it showed the Jap airplanes by that time. We couldn't tell how many were in the hangars but there were quite a few hangars there too, so the hangars very possibly were also full. FRANK BORING: Did you ever have a chance to talk to Chennault about - did you actually sit down with him and go over these photographs with him or did he pretty much take them off to the side? �ERIK SHILLING: No, they were taken over sort of by Harvey Greenlaw and some other of the staff. No I didn't get to talk to him about the photographs at all after I brought them back. FRANK BORING: What was your reaction to seeing all those Japanese planes all in a row? ERIK SHILLING: Just wishing that we had a bomber, because what a setup it would have been if we just had a few B-25's at that time. Of course the British had the Blenheim's and they were antiquated bombers at that time, very slow. So we were just wishing we'd had bombers. (break) ERIK SHILLING: After I turned north to photograph the airport at Don Muang, the weather was extremely clear and you could see maybe 75 miles, so it was easy to distinguish stuff on the ground and I could see that all these bombers which were verified in the photos later on, there were 92 of them. Of course at that time I didn't count them, but they were just parked wing tip to wing tip and I was just wished instead of being in a fighter, that's the only time I ever wished I'd been in a bomber. If we could drop a couple of bombs right in the middle of that thing, it would have made our job later on much easier. FRANK BORING: After this period of time you were transferred to Third Squadron. ERIK SHILLING: After the photo mission I had requested to go with the Third Squadron and fortunately it was accepted and so I went down to Rangoon when the Third Squadron was ordered down and while we were there, we went on a couple of false alarms and then on the 22nd I got word that the CW-21's that I had to Chennault about and had flown, had been purchased by the Chinese and three of us were to fly the CW-21's to Kunming. So on the 23rd we left just about daylight and flew from Rangoon to Toungoo and we had to have some maintenance work done on them and also some long-range �tanks installed. They were long-range droppable wing tanks. So we left - and the Japanese hit Rangoon at about 10:30, so we fortunately got out of Rangoon before the Japanese hit us on the 23rd. Then when they were working on the CW-21's is when we heard that Rangoon had been hit. Then we felt that we had to get out of Toungoo as well because Toungoo had no warning net at all. So after the tanks were finished and installed, and the few things that we could do there, we left. But we didn't have any radios in the airplanes because all of the radios would have to wait because they'd been taken to Kunming. So we took off from Lashio - I mean Toungoo for Lashio, which is about 150 miles north of Toungoo and on the way to Lashio, my engine backfired a couple of times and so when we landed at Lashio one of our crew chiefs, a fellow by the name of George Bailey, happened to meet the airplane and I talked it over with him about the backfiring and we came to a sort of mutual conclusion - the airplane should have used what we called 80-87 octane fuel and the P-40's needed 100-115 octane fuel and the higher octane can burn the exhaust valves and with the higher heat it also sometimes the exhaust valves would stick and that's what caused the backfiring. So we decided to drain the high octane fuel out and put in the fuel that was required and also there were no maps available for the hump trip to Kunming and I felt that possibly we could get the maps in Lashio. Well when I got there another disappointment, they didn't have maps there either. So the only maps that we had for this flight was a pencil drawing of the route and it showed Lashio and it showed Kunming 330 miles and a heading of about 60 degrees and then there was a line that went up like this and then on back down - that represented the Burma Road and then there were a couple of lines that were rivers and that was all we had to navigate with. Now I had been to Kunming once before, but that was on top of an overcast, so I didn't get to see very much of it. So when - Lacey was the first airplane to be defueled and refueled and when Ken Merritt's airplane was finished they had come over to mine and about this time, Lacey had taken off. Now I didn't know that he was gonna take off, I thought he was going down to the end of the runway and �check his mags and stuff and see how the fuel was doing, so he took off and I was really disappointed because without the maps now I knew that I would have to brief them as much as I could about the trip. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shilling, Eriksen E. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-09-25 Title A name given to the resource Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 5 of 8), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses the origin of the Panda Bear representing the Second Squadron, in addition to his personal reaction to the fatalities among the pilots and the photo reconnaissance flight he took with Bert Christman and Ed Rector. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng