291 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ab6ad10b31264139ca3335435ba6c204.pdf 76e66c0db5e85a979598ad751e749d93 PDF Text Text Day 389. by windoworks Lea has scrawled her grandfather's name by one of the 25,000 white crosses that have appeared on Prague's Old Town Square. Devoid of tourists, the square is now an impromptu memorial to the dead. We tend not to think about the virus in other places such as Europe. Here’s a BBC roundup. First up, France where things are grim: France has entered its third national lockdown as it battles a surge in cases of Covid-19 that threatens to overwhelm the country's hospitals. All schools and non-essential shops will shut for four weeks, and a curfew will be in place from 19:00 to 06:00. On Friday, the number of seriously ill Covid patients in intensive care units (ICU) increased by 145 - the biggest jump in five months. President Emmanuel Macron has promised more hospital beds for Covid patients. France is currently battling a peak of about 5,000 Covid patients in ICUs. On Friday, the country recorded 46,677 new cases and 304 deaths. As well as the restrictions that came into force on Saturday, from Tuesday people will also need a valid reason to travel more than 10 km (six miles) from their homes. Next, Poland: Poland is struggling to cope with its highest number of new infections since the pandemic began - 60 times higher than at the start of the pandemic in spring last year - because of the rampant UK (Kent) variant of the virus. In the worst affected area of Silesia, patients are being airlifted to less burdened �hospitals in neighbouring provinces. The government is now trying to attract doctors from abroad. Poland avoided high numbers of infections and deaths when the pandemic began thanks to a strict lockdown, closing its borders and restricting people's movement, even for exercise. That wasn't sustainable and both movement and economic life resumed. Schools, shops and businesses are closed again but churches in this deeply Catholic country remain open for limited numbers of worshippers for Easter. Poles have been allowed to maintain their tradition of taking their wicker baskets of eggs and sausages to be blessed by the priests. Many here have been critical of the vaccine rollout, and the government was forced into a humiliating apology on 1 April when it suddenly changed its policy overnight and allowed anyone aged 40 to 60 to register for a jab. Demand was so high that the system crashed. Hungary: Hungary now has one of the highest Covid mortality rates in the world, with more than 21,000 coronavirus-related deaths and a third wave claiming hundreds of lives every day. And yet its speed of vaccination is among the highest in Europe. More than one in five Hungarians has had a first dose. So what is going wrong? Hungary has high rates of cancer and heart disease and a high fatality rate among people needing ventilation. Although the government bought an astonishing 16,000 ventilators last summer, there aren't enough people to operate them because of a 25% shortage of doctors and a 30% shortage of nurses, largely because of emigration. Another 5,500 doctors quit last month in a row over wage reform. The vaccination picture looks brighter. Prime Minister Viktor Orban gambled successfully on buying supplies of Russia's Sputnik V and then the Chinese Sinopharm vaccines - allowing Hungary to race ahead while many EU countries faced problems with vaccine supplies. And lastly, Ukraine: Some 400 people are currently dying every day in Ukraine's second Covid wave and it's proving more deadly than the first. It's far from clear that current lockdown measures are going to flatten the curve and relieve the mounting pressure on hospitals. The rules vary across Ukraine but in most of the west and in the capital Kyiv only shops selling "essentials" are open, schools are closed, and from this week access to public transport will be limited. Meanwhile, here in Michigan which continues to have the highest numbers of confirmed cases. Yesterday we recorded 9,113 new cases in a single day. A single day. Thats almost 1000 cases more than our previous worst day on December 3. Florida is close behind us where they are struggling to cope with the aftermath of Spring Break and now the influx of people for Easter. This is Michigan’s worst surge. �And in really cheering news (which I can’t find again) the CDC has said that those fully vaccinated do not carry the virus and can’t transmit it. YES! WOO HOO! I think I’ll have a sign made to hang around my neck. And another thing I saw on FB: apparently sunshine slows the virus down by 8 times. I’m not sure how that works. So Friday and Saturday were challenging, to say the least. I find I can cope with almost anything except no wifi. If this was the Before Times, I could manage without wifi - I could go out and socialize. But during a pandemic, wifi is essential to my wellbeing. A masked and booteed man called Dan came at 1:30 yesterday, tested our signal strength and then swapped out our dead router for a new one. The longest part of the process was the chatting while we all waited for the new router to boot up. When Dan left and my �iPad and my cell phone went back online, my anxiety level ratcheted down sharply and I had to fight an urge to sleep for about 3 days. Am I dependent on technology? Absolutely. Am I embarrassed by this dependency? Absolutely not. We each find our own way of coping with this pandemic. Here’s a little piece from The New York Times: One expert said that the pandemic could lead to anhedonia, or the loss of the ability to take pleasure in activities. Another said the pandemic’s longevity had contributed to the sense that time is moving differently and had dulled our ability to form meaningful new memories. Resilience seems in short supply. And from Washington Post: Now, as vaccinations ramp up to more than 3 million per day, the rest of us are facing the possibility of resuming something like normal life — and many of us are experiencing unexpectedly mixed emotions. As our columnist Alyssa Rosenberg wrote last week, “no inoculation, no matter how miraculous, can teach us how to live in the wider world again after spending so long in isolation.” So today, after Craig stains the front porch floor, we are driving out to Grand Haven. We will buy some take out lunch from a past favorite, Morning Star cafe, and drive to the lakeshore to eat it. Then we may drive on to Kirk Park for a walk through the woods. Yesterday, to cheer me up, Craig bought us lunch from Terra Bagels - gluten free breakfast bagels. Yum! Of course we ate them here at home but we’re doing it! Baby steps. Some words to live by: �For those wondering, no, we have not had my new iPad Pro delivered. We have called and texted everyone and it seems to be stuck somewhere between Indiana and Grand Rapids. Yesterday Craig discovered a small sentence tucked away on the FedEx site: these deliveries are only made on weekdays. Now if it was some English teabags or new underwear for me, I wouldn’t mind. But this is a piece of technology that we paid almost $1200 for on Thursday and it was not unreasonable to expect its prompt delivery. Also, I’m tired of staying home and waiting for it to be delivered. In exciting news, my friend Fred has had the old piano removed from his studio, Vinecroft, and is ready for the delivery of our beloved piano. In the Before Times, Fred held Tuesday night invitation only spaghetti dinners and potluck and when we could make it, Craig always played the piano and those so �minded sang along. It is very cheering to think a piece of us will be left at Vinecroft for people to enjoy for years to come. Tomorrow is a big day. At 3pm we sign the closing papers and then we are renting this house until we leave. It is such a strange feeling, to be renting the house you have lived in for 18+ years. This is such a warm and friendly house, even with half our belongings already packed away and out of sight. I shall miss this block and this city and all my friends. Sigh. So, the Caribbean. Dominican Republic. The Dominican Republic is a Caribbean nation that shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti to the west. It's known for its beaches, resorts and golfing. Its terrain comprises rainforest, savannah and highlands, including Pico Duarte, the Caribbean’s tallest mountain. Capital city Santo Domingo has Spanish landmarks like the Gothic Catedral Primada de America dating back 5 centuries in its Zona Colonial district. ― Google Caribbean Sea Craig and I had signed up for a tour that included a visit to a cocoa plantation. �The long jetty at Samana Bay. �Walking along the jetty to ur bus. �First stop at a beach and fishing village �The water was crystal clear. �The stones were hard to walk on but it was a beautiful day. More of our day trip tomorrow. Now for Oliver. �Obviously completely over his fear of the �water. �Obligatory Easter photo: what is this and what do I do with it? This morning a young friend posted on FB that she had Covid-19. Its still out there people. Stay safe: wear a mask, wash your hands and stay distanced. See you tomorrow. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-04_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-389 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-04 Title A name given to the resource Day 389 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/49ee7fd5e161aa03d94d90b1ba2a8a57.pdf 14e4ce22ffa700a56b35235517ae9f0b PDF Text Text Day 388. Saturday April 3 by windoworks Perhaps a short post this morning because I am using my iPhone’s hotspot to access the internet. I have an appointment at the Apple store in Woodland Mall which I am not going to be able to keep as my new iPad Pro has not been delivered to my house yet. Thats frustrating. But the worst thing is that yesterday afternoon, while watching something on TV our 4 year old modem silently died. Completely. Today the technician will come between 12 - 4pm and install a new modem and new wiring etc. So the thing about no wifi connection and no ability to go anywhere else and piggyback on public wifi is, that you have simply hours to contemplate not only your own state but the state of the world as well. It occurred to me that if this pandemic had occurred during my twenties, I don’t think I would have managed it successfully. I might, like a small number of Craig’s first year Honors students, succumbed entirely and ended up in a facility similar to PineRest, our local hospital for emotionally distraught patients. (Mental hospital sounds both old fashioned and rude). This morning we (all of us in this together) stand at a disturbing point. As the Washington Post so aptly said, we stand at a point of both hope and dread. The vaccine introduces hope but in order to have hope, you have to be fully vaccinated first. The EU is not doing well in the vaccinations stakes. Germany is refusing to use Astra Zeneca which may have caused blood clots in a tiny percentage of those successfully vaccinated. Is this the right move in an unrelenting pandemic? I don’t know. Italy has shutdown with gatherings (and I assume Mass) banned for all of Easter - one of the most significant events in the Catholic year. The Pope will preach to an empty Vatican. Variants are spreading across the world. Brazil is in the midst of an apocalyptic health crisis brought on by the insanity of the Brazilian leader. Mumbai, India, is staggering under the huge surge in infections. Most countries borders are closed to all except perhaps repatriating citizens. I had decided to save this post essay for a future date but in light of the no wifi conditions, I decided to write it today. In looking back, I think the most shocking thing to happen was the gradual realization that no one knew when this pandemic would be over. At first we all imagined how dreadful it would be if it went on for maybe 3 months, and then okay, 6 months. Slowly we accepted the idea that it might last a whole year (!) and then, slowly but surely, we have come to the dreadful conclusion that no one, anywhere in the world, can accurately forecast when this will be over, and if not over, then at least manageable. Yesterday, before the wifi router/modem died, Craig spent almost an hour on hold waiting to talk to someone at the JAL office in Los Angeles. When he finally talked to the incredibly polite and helpful woman at the other end of the phone, she sounded exasperated. The email JAL sent out was so poorly worded that their office had been fielding calls from anxious and confused customers all morning. If the email had said: these are the flights still operating and these are the flights canceled, there would have �been half the number of highly distressed customers calling. It turned out that our flight is still going ahead on July 6 from Haneda to Sydney. So far, so good. We will relax as the plane takes off from Haneda bound to Sydney, as anything could happen in the meantime. Could we have imagined this scenario in January 2020? Probably not. And I continue to be absolutely amazed by the actions of some groups in a life threatening pandemic. To explain, here in Michigan (out of 50 states, Michigan is experiencing the worst surge of all - more about hat in a moment). Part of this surge is from high school and college sports teams spreading the B117 variant freely among their team mates. But this week, after some schools have closed for safety periods, a Michigan High School and College Sports association (no wifi, winging it here) has sued to have all sports to be allowed again. Right. There’s no rampant virus spread to worry about, is there? No wonder Michigan is ranking the highest in virus cases. And you know, the younger people aren’t just getting sick, numbers of them are getting severely ill and needing hospitalization and then some are needing to be transferred to the ICU. We all know the odds of recovering unscathed from a period spent on a ventilator. You know things are very bad when the head of the CDC and the Chief Medical Officer of most states are pleading, begging people to keep their guard up. Hey, I’m tired and fed up too, and I’m fully vaccinated but I have no desire to be the case which proves that fully vaccinated you can still catch the virus if you refuse to be careful and follow some basic rules. Yesterday Michigan had 6,066 new confirmed cases. Kent County had 351 confirmed new cases. The graph is going sharply up. Our positivity rate for Kent County is 15.6% and thats not the worst county positivity rate in Michigan. We’re in dire straits. My son said to me yesterday: it is a different world here Mum because Australia is an island state. We have managed to keep almost all infected people out of the country and we have excellent contact tracing and mitigation for outbreaks. Those who break the rules are easily found and punished. Its a different world. Why is it different? Yes, its an island state, similar to Japan and New Zealand etc. But that’s not all of it. A large part for New Zealand and Australia (I can’t speak for other island states) is that this virus control is seen as a team sport - everyone is playing on the same team, on the same side with the same goal in sight. They firmly adhere to the adage: united we rise, divided we fall. Success over the virus really does mean all working together. Each team member who decides to give up and go it alone, weakens the team effort. If you follow any type of team sport, you can understand the analogy. As the Beatles sang: all together now. Okay, I’ve forced my views down your throat and if you’ve lasted this long. you do deserve an Oliver photo or two. �I rule the galaxy but I need you to read me this �book. �Here I am, looking like I know what I’m doing on Mummy’s laptop keyboard. Authors note: its 1:57pm and we have a new router and the wifi is back up. Still absolutely no sign of my new iPad Pro however. I’ll leave you with this: � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-03_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-388 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-03 Title A name given to the resource Day 388 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb5556137fe0aad82e6515d58a29ace6.pdf c4812f285ef5c3f321c81773460b8330 PDF Text Text Day 387. by windoworks There are some days that it is almost too difficult to write this blogpost. Here is a good summary of what is happening here in Michigan. New York Times: DETROIT — In a rural stretch of Michigan along the shore of Lake Huron, coronavirus outbreaks are ripping through churches, schools and restaurants where the virus has infected line cooks and waitresses. For more than a week, ambulances have taken several hourlong trips each day to rush severely ill coronavirus patients to hospitals in Detroit, Saginaw or Port Huron, where beds in intensivecare units await. Even as the pandemic appears to be waning in some parts of the United States, Michigan is in the throes of a coronavirus outbreak that is one of the largest and most alarming in the country. Infection levels have exploded in recent weeks, in big cities and rural stretches alike. Ann Hepfer, a health officer for two counties, is racked by worries: about spring break trips that are underway, and about the Easter gatherings that will take place this weekend, when families are fresh off their travels out of state. Michigan has more recent cases per capita than any other state, and has seen them soar in recent weeks, to more than 5,600 cases a day from about 1,000 on Feb. 21. The nation’s top five metro areas in recent cases per capita are all in Michigan: Jackson, Detroit, Flint, Lansing and Monroe. Health officials partly attributed the rapid rise in cases to the B.1.1.7 variant that was originally identified in Britain and is widespread in Michigan. But they have also observed a broader return to prepandemic life seen in a relaxing of mask wearing, social distancing and other strategies meant to slow the spread of the virus — many weeks before a substantial portion of the population is vaccinated. On Thursday, Michigan officials announced that they had identified their first case of the P.1 variant, which has spread widely in Brazil and has now been found in more than 20 U.S. states. More than 2,300 coronavirus patients statewide are hospitalized, a figure that has more than doubled since the beginning of March. Five hospitals in the Henry Ford system in the Detroit area had a total of 75 coronavirus patients during the week of March 8; as of Tuesday, the hospitals were up to 267 patients. On Monday, the health system announced it would reinstate a policy limiting visitors at several hospitals, in response to the latest surge. Meanwhile, the Republican lawmakers across the US are doing their best to reinstate oppressive voting rights laws. This is because they haven’t got any sort of believable programs or campaign promises to offer except opposition to everything. Its appears that a large portion of Americans, Democratic and Republican alike really want the H.R.1 bill, the massive voting rights bill proposed by the Democrats in the House. Americans also want Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure bill. Speaking of this, some Republican politicians are so uninformed that they actually say things in public, on the record, as: what have bridges and lead pipes have to do with infrastructure? I continue to be astounded by the intelligence level of some �Republican lawmakers. I don’t think just wanting to be a Representative or a Senator is a sound reason for running for office - or for voters to vote for them. Surely, in light of the global pandemic, the portion of Americans whose disdain for well educated and qualified people running for office must be overruled. We had a poorly educated mafia type boss in charge for 4 years with all his cronies - and look where that got us. There isn’t enough time in a day for the Biden/Harris Administration to fix all the worst mistakes, although they’re certainly trying. Yesterday I went down to Woodland Mall for my appointment at the Apple store. We lined up outside, carefully spaced out and waited for the store to open. As we waited we saw many mall walkers - mostly our age, walking carefully masked around the mall, doing several laps. But amazingly, there were two older men, walking fast around the mall, talking non stop and completely unmasked! Now Craig and I are almost 2 weeks past our fully vaccinated date and we continue to wear masks and distance inside stores. Even fully vaccinated, you can’t throw your masks away. To get into the store we had to answer the usual questions (do you have a sore throat etc) and then have our temperatures taken. Our assistant took us to a table and sat safely distant across the other side. I am purchasing the largest IPad Pro with attachable keyboard. It will be delivered today to the house and I have another 10am appointment at the Apple store tomorrow to pick up the keyboard and trade in this old iPad. Exciting! Yesterday, Craig spent hours on hold with JAL trying to sort out a glitch in our travel plans. Originally we were flying from Chicago to Haneda Japan and then on to Sydney from there. Suddenly we were flying from Chicago to Narita but still flying out from Haneda, 90 minutes drive away. When he finally got to speak to someone, we couldn’t get to Haneda from Narita because ........... the Japanese borders are closed we can’t leave the airport. So by the end of the long conversation, we were rebooked from Chicago to L.A., then L.A. to Haneda and Haneda on to Sydney - except now, the Haneda to Sydney flight is a much smaller plane and our seats were changed. But wait. There’s more. When we woke up at 6am this morning, there was an email from JAL to all passengers saying all flights from Japan to Sydney had been canceled until October with some exclusions. After about 30 minutes panic (our house closes on Monday, our belongings leave on June 30 etc), panic, panic, we reread the email and are hoping (fingers and toes crossed) that our flight from Haneda to Sydney is one of the exclusions. We have the new email tickets but Craig will sit on the phone this morning at 11am (when the JAL American office opens in L.A) to make sure we are still flying on to Sydney from Japan. Just an observation here, the CDC continues to ask people to avoid travel overseas. You would think after all the trouble with the continuing global pandemic, the CDC would restrict people from traveling internationally. You would also think that the states surrounding Michigan would close their borders. You would think. And this is how I feel today: �Here’s what’s happening in other places: CNN: The World Health Organization harshly criticized Europe’s coronavirus response, calling the region’s vaccine rollout “unacceptably slow” as new variants threaten to wipe out progress. Many European nations have struggled to carry out effective vaccination programs as drug companies have repeatedly under-delivered on scheduled shipments. WHO says the region has vaccinated only 10% of its population with one shot in a two-dose regimen. In the US, health experts are pleading with people to wait until their second vaccine shot to resume normal activities. A fourth surge, concentrated among young people, could be on the horizon if people aren’t careful. And with surges come new restrictions, like in Ontario, where a jump in ICU admissions has forced the province to issue an “emergency brake” shutdown beginning this weekend. One tiny sliver of hope from Crooked Media: CDC data suggests that fully vaccinated people cannot transmit coronavirus! I am too tired and upset to continue writing today. See you tomorrow, � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-02_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-387 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-02 Title A name given to the resource Day 387 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3386d71866d01759059bee73ed9324de.pdf a120f3062fa32b95d530a798ba3dcdf9 PDF Text Text Day 386 by windoworks Tomorrow is Good Friday. In Australia, Easter is a 5 day holiday break. Easter Sunday is Egg Hunt Day and these are real chocolate eggs, not plastic ones. I remember finding smushed, disgusting chocolate eggs in our garden, months after Easter. These were the eggs that were apparently too well hidden for any small child to find. If you are a small child at Easter, the trick is to eat as many chocolate eggs as possible before a parent finds you. Every year the chocolate candy manufacturers put out bigger and better Easter treats. Those large chocolate bunnies are best filled with some sort of candy. Cadbury Cherry Ripe is a dark chocolate hollow rabbit filled with cherry coconut jelly pieces. I don’t care for Cherry Ripe but I would buy a rabbit filled with tiny Violet Crumble pieces. Actually, its been years since I even thought about eating that much chocolate. Because Michigan is at the top of the Leader Board in state candidates for the biggest 4th surge of the virus, I am posting more vaccine developments. First up: �CNN: Global leaders have called for an international “pandemic treaty” to help ensure the world is prepared for future crises. The leaders of France, the UK and Germany, and members of the World Health Organization are among those leading the call for increased vaccine equity and international cooperation. Countries and trade blocs have clashed over vaccine supplies, especially in Europe where the coronavirus variant first found in the UK is wreaking havoc on the region’s recovery plans. Experts are worried that if Americans don’t stick to safety measures, the variant could do similar damage in the US. Dangerous coronavirus variants are already leading to more hospitalizations and lockdowns in Canada. There is some surprise that Governor Whitmer has not asked the Michigan Health Department to institute some lockdown restrictions in light of our uncontrolled virus surge. (Remember, the State Republicans passed a law limiting her executive powers - when the attempt to kidnap , torture and kill her failed). But then, we all remember that now the State Republican lawmakers led by a low life man who called Governor Whitmer, Attorney-General Dana Nessel and Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson the trio of witches from MacBeth. If this is a trio of witches then they must be Good Witches and they are doing their best under extraordinary circumstances. Instead of passing laws that help every Michigander lead a better life, these GOP lawmakers spend their time and money trying to overturn laws and recall Governor Whitmer. Also, a significant number of the January 6 insurrectionists call Michigan home. Okay, time for some good news. 1. Washington Post: The White House on Monday detailed an ambitious plan to expand wind farms along the East Coast and jump-start the country’s nascent offshore wind industry, saying it hoped to trigger a massive clean-energy effort in the fight against climate change. The plan would generate 30 gigawatts of offshore wind power by the end of the decade — enough to power more than 10 million American homes and cut 78 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions. To accomplish that, the Biden administration said, it would speed permitting for projects off the East Coast, invest in research and development, provide low-interest loans to industry and fund changes to U.S. ports. Its just a baby step, Greta - but we’re trying. 2. Washington Post: EPA purges 40 outside experts picked by Trump from advisory panels. EPA Administrator Michael Regan will dismiss outside experts appointed by President Donald Trump from two key advisory panels, a move he says will reduce the heavy influence of industry over the agency's environmental regulations. And, thats another baby step. 3. NPR: New clinical trials showed that Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine elicits "100% efficacy and robust antibody responses" in adolescents from 12 to 15 years old, the drug company announced Wednesday. The �trial included 2,260 participants; the results are even better than earlier responses from participants ages 16 to 25. Pfizer and its vaccine partner BioNTech said they will submit the results "as soon as possible" to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the European Medicines Agency, asking regulators to expand their authorizations for the vaccine's use in young people. Pfizer will submit the data "in the coming weeks," Pfizer CEO and Chairman Albert Bourla said in a news release about the trial. Calling the results encouraging, he added that the company is acting "with the hope of starting to vaccinate this age group before the start of the next school year." Thats awesome news. And lastly, from Crooked Media: 4. The Pentagon has scrapped the Trump administration’s restrictions on transgender troops, and will offer access to transition-related medical care. 5. Gov. Ralph Northam (D-VA) has signed a law banning the gay/trans panic defense in Virginia. Now for everyone (including me) who is unsure how the vaccine actually works, here’s a stunning article which explains that but offers much more: The Atlantic: Like so many breakthroughs, this apparent overnight success was many decades in the making. More than 40 years had passed between the 1970s, when a Hungarian scientist pioneered early mRNA research, and the day the first authorized mRNA vaccine was administered in the United States, on December 14, 2020. The dream of mRNA persevered in part because its core principle was tantalizingly simple, even beautiful: The world’s most powerful drug factory might be inside all of us. People rely on proteins for just about every bodily function; mRNA—which stands for messenger ribonucleic acid—tells our cells which proteins to make. With human-edited mRNA, we could theoretically commandeer our cellular machinery to make just about any protein under the sun. You could mass-produce molecules that occur naturally in the body to repair organs or improve blood flow. Or you could request our cells to cook up an off-menu protein, which our immune system would learn to identify as an invader and destroy. In the case of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, mRNA vaccines send detailed instructions to our cells to make its distinctive “spike protein.” Our immune system, seeing the foreign intruder, targets these proteins for destruction without disabling the mRNA. Later, if we confront the full virus, our bodies recognize the spike protein again and attack it with the precision of a well-trained military, reducing the risk of infection and blocking severe illness. But mRNA’s story likely will not end with COVID-19: Its potential stretches far beyond this pandemic. This year, a team at Yale patented a similar RNA-based technology to vaccinate against malaria, perhaps the world’s most devastating disease. Because mRNA is so easy to edit, Pfizer says that it is planning to use �it against seasonal flu, which mutates constantly and kills hundreds of thousands of people around the world every year. The company that partnered with Pfizer last year, BioNTech, is developing individualized therapies that would create on-demand proteins associated with specific tumors to teach the body to fight off advanced cancer. In mouse trials, synthetic-mRNA therapies have been shown to slow and reverse the effects of multiple sclerosis. “I’m fully convinced now even more than before that mRNA can be broadly transformational,” Özlem Türeci, BioNTech’s chief medical officer, told me. “In principle, everything you can do with protein can be substituted by mRNA.” I find this astounding. It really is ‘the sky’s the limit’ stuff. And remember yesterday when I posted that the experts weren’t sure how long the vaccine protection lasted? Woo hoo! Here’s this update from CNN: The ongoing Phase 3 clinical trial of Pfizer/BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine confirms its protection lasts at least six months after the second dose, the companies said Thursday. It's the first look at how long protection for a coronavirus vaccine lasts, and while six months is a modest target, it's longer than the 90 days of protection been the best estimate offered to date. The vaccine remains more than 91% effective against disease with any symptoms for six months, the companies said. And it appeared to be fully effective against the worrying B.1.351 variant of the virus, which is the dominant strain circulating in South Africa and which researchers feared had evolved to evade the protection of vaccines, the companies said. “The vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and 95.3% effective against severe COVID-19 as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)," Pfizer and BioNTech said in a joint statement. I found out yesterday that a vaccine opportunity presented at a nearby high school was a scam and my hairdresser was caught by it. But luckily, this week, Michigan opened up vaccines for all, at least a week ahead of schedule and she got her first shot on Tuesday. Many of Craig’s students are fully vaccinated and most others have had their first shot or have it scheduled. I cannot express my feelings sufficiently about being fully vaccinated. Yesterday Craig and I went into our local grocery store. I haven’t been inside it since last summer. And the most astounding thing is - I’m no longer terrified of catching the virus. I still wear a mask, I still wash my hands diligently and I still keep my distance, but I know I have a strong measure of protection. And yesterday’s bonus? I spoke to a really good friend, face to face, (at a distance), that I haven’t seen in MONTHS! Nearly normal. Still on Bequia . While I shopped a little, Craig explored the nearby area. �Our ship. �Someone’s house �A beautiful Caribbean swimming beach ��My only regret: I didn’t go swimming there. More Caribbean tomorrow. ��As Christian and Oliver say: Happy Easter to you all. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-01_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-386 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-01 Title A name given to the resource Day 386 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/558dd467c62e43e85f2e277a025c496a.pdf 0769f0edb76480981a3419daa0d860ce PDF Text Text Day 385 by windoworks This morning it is all about the virus. The numbers are increasing across the US but particularly in Michigan. Its not really what you want your state to be the best at - increasing infection numbers. Its the UK variant, B117 and its attacking younger people. This is partly because so many people 65+ have been fully vaccinated. Of course once you are vaccinated fully after the 2 week wait, then questions arise. What can I do safely? I love a good chart and here’s one that lets you know exactly what you can and can’t do: �So why is this 4th surge happening? here’s an explanation from the New York Times: Several factors are fueling the upturn, Apoorva Mandavilli, a Times science reporter, told us. A more contagious variant (the one first identified in Britain, called B.1.1.7) is spreading. Some mayors and governors have continued to lift restrictions and mask rules. Many Americans are behaving less cautiously. And vaccinations have not gotten the country near herd immunity. Many experts aren’t surprised. “For literally a month and a half, we’ve all been predicting that the second half of March is when B.1.1.7 would become the dominant variant in the United States,” says Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health. “And sure enough, here we are.” The increase is not distributed equally. “New York and New Jersey have been bad and are not getting better, and Michigan’s cases are rising at an explosive rate,” Mitch Smith, a Times reporter covering the �pandemic, said. Hospitalizations are also rising rapidly in Michigan, with Jackson, Detroit and Flint among the metro areas experiencing the highest rates of new cases in the country. On December 3, Michigan recorded 8,124 new cases (in a single day). Yesterday, Michigan recorded 6,257 new cases and the graph is showing that we might not have reached the peak yet. In Kent County we had 207 new cases yesterday, giving the county a total of 56,140 recorded cases. The new big question is: how long does the vaccination protection last? Washington Post: As with most aspects of the virus, the answer is not completely clear. Why? Because although we have been battling the pandemic for more than a year, the vaccines were granted emergency use authorization relatively recently. So experts have not had time to observe their long-term effectiveness. However, that research is underway, and in the meantime, experts say we can make an educated guess. Based on clinical trials, experts do know that vaccine-induced protection should last a minimum of about three months. That does not mean protective immunity will expire after 90 days; that was simply the time frame participants were studied in the initial Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson trials. As researchers continue to study the vaccines, that shelf life is expected to grow.In the real world, the protection should last quite a bit longer, though the length of time still needs to be determined with further studies, experts said. Looking at studies on natural immunity from the coronavirus, experts hypothesize that protective immunity from the vaccines will last at least six to eight months. And if immunity from SARS-CoV-2 ends up being similar to other seasonal coronaviruses, such as “common colds,” it is even possible the vaccines could provide protection for up to a year or two before requiring a booster, the experts said. Pfizer, Moderna and others are conducting clinical trials to determine how long a booster shot will extend protective immunity and to determine whether their vaccines can be tailored to combat new variants of the virus. And Johnson & Johnson is testing a two-dose version of its vaccine. So far, evidence suggests the available vaccines are still effective against most variants, but that could change if the virus continues to mutate. The more prevalent the virus and the longer it takes to vaccinate people against it, the higher the risk of developing mutations that will then make the vaccines less effective. That’s why it’s urgent to vaccinate as many people as fast as possible. We are running against time. Yesterday I read 4 posts on FB, all detailing how to get your vaccination process started in Michigan. My immediate neighbors on both sides have the parents vaccinated with at least their first shot and it is a matter of jubilation that we all share in, congratulating each other happily. We were walking in Huff Park yesterday, and 2 women and small children - all masked - passed us. We put our masks on when we saw them approaching and Craig said: we are fully vaccinated. One of the women said: isn’t it such a relief! �And it is such a relief. Recent studies of fully vaccinated medical staff, vaccinated in December, shows that their protection from infection stays at 90%. Woo hoo! In truly wonderful news, my 88 year old motherin-law who lives in Australia, is set to receive her first shot next Tuesday. We are all very excited for her. Australia was just vaccinating essential workers etc., but I am happy to see they are moving to the next category which includes retirement villages. In another exciting development, there is talk of vaccine passports. this is a topic dear to my heart. Remember I told you I emailed the Australian Health Department? They responded over the weekend and said: No, you’ll still have to quarantine. I wonder if an official vaccine passport would make a difference? Washington Post: The White House is moving to soothe privacy and equity concerns about the development and deployment of so-called “vaccine passports” that would enable the bearer to prove they’ve been inoculated against the coronavirus. And the administration is trying to strike a balance about the government’s role by declaring the private sector will lead the effort to design the certificates while also promising federal oversight to ensure citizens are treated fairly. “We recognize this is a tricky and important subject, but the core here is that Americans, like people around the world, who are vaccinated will want to be able to demonstrate that vaccination in various forms,” said Andy Slavitt, White House senior adviser on the pandemic response. The debate in the United States over whether and how to develop the “passports” — and to what extent states or businesses could require them — reflects the global disarray on the issue. The European Union is pushing ahead with its version (the “Digital Green Certificate”), Israel is struggling to implement its “Green Passport,” and Japan and China are deploying their own certificates. All I can say is: hurry up! Spring is here but the temperature is going up and down, day to day. Yesterday was almost hot but today is cold. The first flowers in Craig’s back garden meadow have appeared. Nope, no idea what they are. some sort of daffodil? �2018 was a big year for cruises. To finish the year out, on December 21 we flew to Bridgetown, Barbados to embark on a Christmas cruise to the Caribbean. Craig was the only lecturer on board and he lectured on the history of the Caribbean and the history of each place we docked at. �First lecture First up, Bequia. Bequia is the second-largest island in the Grenadines at 7 square miles (18 km2). It is part of the country of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and is approximately 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) from the nation's capital, Kingstown, on the main island, Saint Vincent. Bequia means "island of the clouds" in the ancient Arawak. Bequia has a history of whaling which may have brought in by the Yankee whalers in the 19th century. Its people are only allowed to catch up to four humpback whales per year using traditional hunting methods, however these methods are regularly abused using harpoon guns and speedboats to surround the whales. The limit is rarely met, with no catch some years. Wikipedia. �Grenadines St Vincent and the �We decided to take a tour of the island on this truck. �The seats were hard, but our guide/driver was �great. As in all tropical areas, it suddenly poured with rain and although our guide/driver rolled down the plastic sides of the seating area, we still got wet. But it was so hot it didn’t really matter. �Fort and gun emplacement. Some historians believe that the famous pirate Edward Teach had his base in Bequia. The opening shot of the movie Blackbeard, Pirate of the Caribbean, made by the BBC, displays a replica of his first ship off the coast of Bequia in the St. Vincent passage. According to local legend, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines was not only Teach's base, but also the place from which Sir Francis Drake planned his attacks on the Spanish admiralty in Don Blas de Lezo's Cartagena. Indeed, it is thought that Henry Morgan may also have anchored in Admiralty Bay, as it was then the safest natural harbour in the Eastern Caribbean during hurricane season. Bequia was used as a repair facility for ships. Beside Nelson's Dockyard on Antigua, and the Carlyle in Bridgetown, Barbados, there were no other drydocks or shipyards in the area. Wooden shipbuilding and ship-repair on Bequia was possible due to the presence of cedar trees on the island and a sufficiently deep and sheltered harbour. Wikipedia. �One of those islands in the distance is Mustique which is a private island. Princess Margaret owned property there. �A tropical beach. More Bequia tomorrow. Yesterday Oliver went to the New South Wales Public Museum to see the dinosaur exhibition. He was ecstatic and raced around shouting Wow! Dinosaur! At the top of his voice which echoed satisfyingly in the almost empty museum. ����Stay safe - we aren’t anywhere near herd immunity. Remember, we’re all in this together. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-31_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-385 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-31 Title A name given to the resource Day 385 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34feb6435a77826df8bf21b0c8259346.pdf 474faf1df65f90247971db94e6168fe7 PDF Text Text Day 384 by windoworks One week later, the Ever Given is freed from the sides of the canal. Apparently, the moon’s effect on the tide played a part in helping to free the ship. �SUEZ, Egypt (AP) — Salvage teams on Monday freed a colossal container ship stuck for nearly a week in the Suez Canal, ending a crisis that had clogged one of the world’s most vital waterways and halted billions of dollars a day in maritime commerce. Helped by the tides, a flotilla of tugboats wrenched the bulbous bow of the skyscraper-sized Ever Given from the canal’s sandy bank, where it had been firmly lodged since March 23. The tugs blared their horns in jubilation as they guided the Ever Given through the water after days of futility that had captivated the world, drawing scrutiny and social media ridicule. Here’s the last word on this subject, although it could go on for longer. �Seriously, the traffic clog of ships waiting to sail through the Canal is large and this will take some time to sort out. The Suez Canal is operated by Egypt, through its state-owned Suez Canal Authority. Canal revenue for Egypt was $5.6 billion in 2020, according to Arab News. On average, about 50 ships pass through the canal daily. USA Today. Apparently that week of inaction has cost the Canal Authority a boatload (sorry) of money. �Meanwhile in Queensland, Australia, where there’s been a significant cluster: Queensland Health @qldhealthnews: Mask requirements across Queensland are coming into effect from 5pm today (Monday 29 March). You must carry a face mask with you at all times when you leave home, unless you have a lawful reason not to. ��Do you ever get the feeling that the virus acts like a Whack-a-Mole? You just get one outbreak under control and Bam! Another outbreaks pops up. In the ‘Truth Will Out’ section, here’s this: Washington Post Over the weekend, officials who served in the Trump administration opened up, admitting to making missteps and misleading statements. Brett Giroir, Trump's coronavirus testing czar, told CNN the administration boasted of tests that weren't actually available. The former White House coronavirus coordinator, Deborah Birx, said that a stronger response could have prevented deaths after last spring’s wave. �“There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,” Birx told CNN correspondent Sanjay Gupta. “All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.” Can I just point out that everyone possesses 20/20 hindsight. And this just confirms the fact that we knew the Trump Administration was lying. But here’s a update on the current state of the virus in the US. Crooked Media: CDC chief Rochelle Walensky warned on Monday that she felt a sense of “impending doom” about a potential fourth surge: “We have so much to look forward to, so much promise and potential of where we are and so much reason for hope, but right now I’m scared.” Walensky was fighting back tears, which top health officials are only allowed to do by law when they are very distressed, because the U.S. coronavirus plateau has vanished: The seven-day average for new daily cases is now at nearly 60,000, up 10 percent from the previous week. Hospitalizations and deaths have begun to rise, too. Much of that reversal can be traced to governors rolling back safety restrictions prematurely as the more contagious coronavirus strains wreak havoc, and it’s not limited to GOP-led states (though Florida’s “win over the virus by inviting it to spring break” strategy is not going great). New York is back at the top of the infection-rate chart, six weeks after Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) reopened indoor dining in New York City. Michigan is seeing an alarming surgedriven largely by young people, with dozens of outbreaks reported in schools. But luckily, its not all doom and gloom. I often wonder when President Biden sleeps. He never seems to stop working. Here’s the latest, again from Crooked Media: Biden announced that at least 90 percent of U.S. adults will be eligible to get a vaccine by April 19. By that time, the federal government will have expanded the number of pharmacies receiving vaccine shipments from 17,000 to 40,000, meaning the vast majority of Americans will be able to access a vaccination site within five miles of their home. At least 31 states have already announced they’ll start jabbing everyone in sight in the coming days. In New York, anyone over age 30 will be eligible as of Tuesday. And this is HUGE: Crooked Media: Here’s the other good news: A new CDC study found the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to be highly effective at preventing infections—both symptomatic and asymptomatic—under real-world conditions. The study looked at nearly 4,000 health-care workers, first responders, and others on the front lines between mid-December and mid-March. Even with the spooky new strains already circulating, the vaccines were 80 percent effective two weeks after the first dose, and up to 90 percent effective two weeks after the second dose. The outcry has begun over Georgia’s new voting law which is (I think) 29 pages long. You can look it up at Georgia Public Radio under, What Does Georgia's New Voting Law SB 202 Do? It is so detailed and specific that organizations are targeting their lawsuits on specific sections. The law is seen as a Jim Crow �law. Jim Crow laws were any state or local laws that enforced or legalized racial segregation. These laws lasted for almost 100 years, from the post-Civil War era until around 1968, and their main purpose was to legalize the marginalization of African Americans. Jim Crow is believed to come from the song Jump Jim Crow, a song performed in Cabaret with the singer a white man in black face, laughing at the simple mindedness of black people. Interestingly, the Jim Crow laws were put in place by the Democratic government. At that time it was the Republicans who were anti slavery. Here’s a piece from CNN: Georgia’s new controversial and restrictive voting law has faced swift backlash. Two federal lawsuits have been filed to challenge the law: one brought by a Democratic election attorney on behalf of racial justice groups, and another by a collective of several civil rights and voting rights groups. The lawsuits allege the new laws, which do things like limit ballot drop boxes and make it illegal to give water to those waiting in line to vote, are unconstitutional and violate the Voting Rights Act. Justice groups are urging sports organizations, like the PGA Tour and Major League Baseball, to reconsider holding upcoming major events in the state. �I have written that the Republican Party seems to have lost its way. Here’s just one example: �It seems that their platform is supporting The Big Lie (the election was stolen) and along with that, as many other smaller lies that deserve their support. They seem unaware that real facts with backup data can be provided to refute their statements but the response is always just to dig in deeper. Its is sometimes deeply discouraging. In an absolutely astonishing example of accountability and FairPlay, the Derek Chauvin trial is being livestreamed. Here’s what happened yesterday on the first day of the trial: Crooked Media: • Opening arguments and testimony began in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin on Monday, before a multiracial jury. The case will hinge on the cause of George Floyd’s death: Prosecutors played the harrowing video of Chauvin suffocating Floyd for jurors during their opening statements, saying that Chauvin used lethal force and Floyd died of oxygen deprivation as a result. The defense argued �that Floyd died as a result of an underlying heart condition, his use of fentanyl, and “the adrenaline flowing through his body.” (The Hennepin County medical examiner concluded that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck for nine minutes 29 seconds was, in fact, a significant factor in his death.) The prosecution’s first witness was 911 dispatcher Jena Scurry, who said she had a gut feeling that “something wasn’t right” when she realized the camera on Floyd and Chauvin wasn’t frozen, and called a police sergeant. Later, a mixed martial arts fighter who had tried to intervene testified that he believed Chauvin was killing Floyd. The trial is being livestreamed, a first in Minnesota history. At the same time, a number of states seem to be proceeding with their laws to limit sport choices for transsexuals. I read this piece on FB the other day and I’ll try to reconstruct it. A daughter (I think aged 8) asked her father what did the letters LGBTQ stand for. Her grandmother standing nearby said: she doesn’t need to know that. The father got down on his knees and said to his daughter: L stands for Lesbian which is two women who love each other very much; G stands for Gay men which means these men love each other very much; B is for Bi-sexual which means someone who loves both men and women; Q is for Questioning which is someone who isn’t sure whether they love men or women best and T is for Transsexual which is someone who is in one body but feels like they belong in another body - a girl who feels she is really a boy for example. Daddy, said the girl, that’s lovely - all that love. I hope I got it right - I think I captured the essence of it. Oliver. �I think this is that part of Twinkle, twinkle little star, that says: up above the world so high. �Finally, I will leave you with this. It is a billboard on the highway by Holland Michigan which I think is a red (Republican) voting city, which is what makes this significant: � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-30_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-384 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-30 Title A name given to the resource Day 384 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/12c9a6819f06a7da41014cd16405cdaa.pdf fbfda0dc3d6e37fc649700bab7472bfd PDF Text Text Day 383. 14 weeks. by windoworks Yorkshire holds its breath as main shipping route of flat caps, whippets and ale is blocked. Ernie Slatherswaite, Master of the vessel told us 'One minute we were fine then a small gust of wind took us. Yorkshire is set to lose upwards of £3.67 a day until the carnage is cleared, which according to Our Uncle Eric in the pub, could take weeks. And many thanks to my friend Merrilyn, who sent me this gem. In the latest news from the Suez Canal: CNN: The massive container ship blocking the Suez Canal and paralyzing global shipping routes has been partially freed after almost a week lodged in the narrow passage. The rear of the vessel was freed from one of the canal's banks, according to the Dutch company working on the refloating operation, but its bow is �still firmly stuck in the sandy clay. Egyptian officials claim crews will try to refloat the ship later today, but other sources warn what’s already been done -- some rotation and the freeing of the back end of the ship -- is the easiest part. Oil prices still dipped upon news of the partial refloating, signaling hope that the blockage, which is costing the canal millions in transit fees every day and holding up billions in cargo among about 350 waiting vessels, will soon be over. There are so many questions regarding how this enormous ship got itself stuck across the Suez Canal. Of course there will be an inquiry and the shipping line may be fined and the 25 person Indian crew may be �fired for incompetence. Its amazing when you think that ship is run by such a small crew, so they must rely on a sophisticated computer system - which begs the question: what massive computer failure caused this? This drama has helped to take our minds off the alarming rising numbers of Covid patients. In the US we have a recorded number of 30.3M cases and 549,000 deaths. Michigan is one of the hottest spots and Kent County is experiencing a lot more cases. Of course Spring Break didn’t help and Easter (this weekend coming) won’t help either. CNN: About 143 million doses of Covid-19 vaccines have been administered in the US, but states are still seeing worrying increases in cases. More than two dozen states are reporting at least a 10% case increase compared to the previous week, and it is likely due to lax safety measures and surges of spring break crowds. In a CNN documentary, Dr. Deborah Birx said after the first surge of coronavirus in the US, the following waves of deaths “could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.” Her admissions, and the observations of other prominent coronavirus authorities, cast a new harsh light on the Trump administration’s coronavirus response. Meanwhile, things are getting worse overseas. Hospitals in Paris are overtaxed as the city battles a new surge, the Philippines has ordered more than 25 million people into lockdown over the Easter holiday, and in Mexico, experts fear the coronavirus death toll could be 60% higher than reported. It is, as I suspected, far from over. In the US there is still a significant number of people who believe steadfastly that the virus is a hoax. They refuse to be vaccinated because they believe any number of truly silly things, such as ‘my DNA will be altered and I’ll turn into an alien’ or ‘you know its just a microchip so the government can control you’. When people have been indoctrinated for more than 4 years and believe that science is trickery, Democratic politicians lie, the virus isn’t real and all elections are rigged - I could go on and on - this proportion of the populace has no alternate firm ground to stand on. Instead they cling to that false firm ground as if their lives depend upon it. That’s a problem that’s literally too hard to solve. My daughter tells me that the Morrison government is hanging on by a thread and a pretty thin thread too. Here’s this snippet from the Guardian: I had only been a politician for a few weeks when I was approached in a Canberra bar and told, ‘The only thing anyone really wants to know about you, Kate, is how many blokes you had to fuck to get into this parliament.’ So goes the arresting opening line of a chapter in former Labor MP Kate Ellis’s book, arriving in bookstores this weekend with the sort of timing publicists dream of – a compendium of the shameful treatment of women in parliament released at a time when we can speak of nothing but. It was, Ellis writes, “the kind of run-of-the-mill sleaze and innuendo which is so common it is almost unremarkable in the culture of federal politics”. �Her book is: Sex, Lies and Question Time by Kate Ellis. I imagine its very interesting reading. I’m including this next piece from CNN, because we all need to be aware. Its part of the 3 steps forward, 2 steps back syndrome. Twenty-eight states are considering bills to restrict the rights of transgender youth, and the passage of such legislation in Tennessee, Mississippi and Arkansas this month has LGTBQ advocates on edge. Last week, Tennessee and Arkansas passed laws restricting transgender participation in school sports, and Mississippi passed a similar law earlier this month. The issue of school sports is one of the common restrictions LGBTQ rights groups are seeing in the more than 60 pieces of anti-LGBTQ legislation on the table across the country. The other most common type of legislation restricts young trans peoples' access to gender-affirming health care. Years ago I was being interviewed for an article by a young male college student. The interview was scheduled for the end of summer. His professor called me to tell me that during the summer the young man had come out as a woman - would I still like to do the interview? I said yes, and 3 days later I opened the front door to admit a small thin woman in a skirt, tights and t-shirt and thick make up on her face. She had the shadow of a beard and was shy, nervous and very shaky. My overwhelming urge was to gather her up into my arms and tell her it will be all right in the end. I have often thought about her and how she is doing. I hope her life has not been too hard. So here’s the thing: I believe everyone should follow their own heart and instincts. I believe that every person has a right to live as they want and be the person they most want to be. There is one rule which we should all try to follow: first, do no harm. But always: to thine own self be true. I cannot imagine letting anyone else make a decision for me regarding my body and I admire people who make very hard decisions for themselves and their body. Once upon a time, my then hairdresser told me I dressed flamboyantly. I don’t think he meant it as a criticism, I hope he meant it admiringly. I am concerned that the pandemic took that aspect of me away, and with my new short haircut, I am reaching back for that flamboyant me. It makes me feel so much better than drab. Today’s adventure. We are going into a very large grocery store this morning. I’m nervous. There will be another travelogue soon. I’ll keep you posted. But lastly Oliver. �And I’ll leave you with this: �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-29_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-383 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-29 Title A name given to the resource Day 383 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/62be740c84e1523c500dbd277bb7bedc.pdf 0b4b9fcc60c4c581da91d8b5d391780b PDF Text Text Day 382 by windoworks First up, the Ever Given. From New York Times: The very big boat in the Suez Canal is still very much stuck. For days, an armada of tugboats with the power of tens of thousands of horses has been pushing and pulling at the Ever Given. Cranes have been scooping mounds of earth from the shallow areas around the ship’s bow and stern. The rudder has been freed, but the ship has not yet been refloated. Egyptian officials pointed to a combination of factors that were responsible for the Ever Given’s grounding on Tuesday, including weather and human error.Time is of the essence. Nearly 300 cargo ships are waiting to traverse the canal, one of the world’s most critical shipping arteries. Already, analysts estimate the traffic jam has held up nearly $10 billion in trade each day. I believe there is an astounding twitter storm from QAnon about the true cargo of this ship. According to made up sources, the Ever Given’s myriad containers are filled with children being taken to international pedophile rings. Here’s my question for those true believers - have you ever been inside a container? In ones without refrigeration facilities, there is no moving air, no food, no bathroom facilities. The Ever Given wouldn’t be transporting live children by the journeys end. Lets have a reality check here. One of the items that is onboard Ever Given is 100 containers of IKEA goods, and IKEA is not happy. The 400-meter-long and 224,000-tonne container ship Ever Given, is almost as long as the Empire State Building. In a setback for global trade, officials stopped all ships entering the Suez Canal channel on Thursday. The blockage has affected the daily movement of goods worth an estimated USD 9.6 billion, according to data from Lloyd's List. A number of ships have reversed out of the Suez Canal and are now sailing down the coast of Africa, an area famous for pirates. Some US Navy boats are accompanying them. This will take 41 days to sail via the Cape. Suez to Amsterdam at 12 knots is just over 13 days via the canal. �This gives you an idea of the long journey to reach the Mediterranean when the Suez Canal is out of commission. Next from NYT: Nearly a week after a man walked into a supermarket in Boulder, Colo., and killed 10 people, investigators say they are still searching to understand a motive. Ahmad Alissa, 21, who has been charged in the mass shooting, came from an immigrant family that had achieved many of the outward signs of success. But the family’s life was not without troubles in the two decades since leaving Syria for a new home in the Rocky Mountains. The Boulder attack was the second U.S. mass shooting in a week, once again leaving Democrats and Republicans in a stalemate over gun control measures. Public health experts say a new round of federal research could pave the way for gun policies that avoid partisan gridlock — and ultimately save thousands of lives. �Hmmm What else? Oh the virus. New York Times: More than one-third of U.S. adults — about 90 million people — have received at least one shot of a coronavirus vaccine. Nearly every state has announced that it will meet President Joe Biden’s directive to make all adults eligible by May 1. Only two states — Arkansas and New York — have not laid out their timeline for universal eligibility. Wyoming has also not said when all adults will be able to get the shot, but 20 of the state’s 23 counties now allow them to. �The exact threshold for herd immunity for the coronavirus is unknown, but recent estimates range from 70 percent to 90 percent. If the U.S. can continue at the current rate of vaccination, about 2.68 million doses per day on average, that point could be reached by mid-July. Case numbers remain high — an average of 60,545 cases per day over the past week — so coronavirus testing remains essential. But things are really dreadful in Brazil: again from New York Times: Brazil is facing the most new Covid-19 cases and deaths in the world. Every hour, roughly 125 people there die from the virus. The virus has killed more than 300,000 people in the country, a crisis fueled by a highly contagious variant, political infighting and conspiracy theories. Hospitals are overwhelmed with a torrent of Covid-19 patients who are arriving younger and sicker. “We have never seen a failure of the health system of this magnitude,” the executive director of Doctors Without Borders in Brazil said. “And we don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel.” Wow! So we’re doing okay then. And meanwhile, in Atlanta: NPR:An unusually furry NASCAR employee started work this past weekend. A black Lab named Dixie nosed her way along a line of people waiting to get into the garage ahead of Sunday’s Cup Series race at Atlanta Motor Speedway. “She’s going to come by and sniff your left hand. If she licks it and you’re offended, there’s hand sanitizer up front,” a NASCAR staff member told people waiting in line, according to a video NASCAR sent WFAE. Dixie wore a bright orange collar, wagging her tail excitedly as her handler led her on a leash from person to person. Dixie stuck her snout against each person’s hand for 5 to 10 seconds and gave a few affectionate licks to those who scratched her head. Dixie is one of three COVID-sniffing dogs, trained by a collection of companies called 360 K9 Group, that screened about 1,000 NASCAR pit crew members and staff at the Atlanta race. She’s trained to “alert” or sit down when she detects the disease caused by the coronavirus. The dogs allow us to rapidly screen — and, essentially, test — that essential population before they go into the garage, in one location, in a very rapid amount of time,” said Tom Bryant, NASCAR’s managing director of racing operations, in an interview with WFAE in advance of Sunday’s race. Dogs are super sniffers with a sense of smell up to 100,000 times more acute than that of humans.“Their world, the primary input is through their nose,” said William Schneider, the chief scientific officer for F1K9, one of the organizations involved in training the dogs for NASCAR. Canines have been trained to find specific scents for a long time. Hunting dogs track certain animal smells. Bomb-sniffing dogs search for explosives. Drug-sniffing dogs can detect narcotics. Some dogs have even been trained to sniff out certain cancers or bacteria. �How cool is that? Maybe they should use these dogs at airports. This morning it is another grey day. Michigan is famous for grey days and grey days don’t help at all in a pandemic. Over the years, Craig has had quite a number of students suffering SAD (seasonal affective disorder). One solution is to purchase a daylight lamp which mimics sunshine. In winter and spring, cloudy days turn the whole world grey. When we first moved here, my sister-in-law in Canada advised me to buy a flowering plant and put it on the kitchen windowsill. I bought African Violets. Over the years the number of plants on my windowsill has ranged from 3 - 7 or 8, depending on their health state. Visitors have commented on the profusion of blooms in the kitchen and they have always raised my spirits. I have 4 at the moment and 3 have just blossomed after months of stagnation. I am coaxing the 4th into blooming. I am a great believer in talking lovingly and encouragingly to house plants - and even garden plants. Everything does better when they’re appreciated. In a few weeks I will give all my plants to neighbors and friends. Yet another step towards leaving the US. The last day in Mongolia. Day 14. �Gobi Dream Ger Camp from around 6am. The tracks in the dirt you can see are actually a major Gobi highway. That’s confronting. �Inside Craig’s ger. Surprisingly comfortable and this one even had its own private bathroom - shower, toilet and basin. Such luxury. �Visiting a nomad camp and learning about Mongolian cooking. The women were cooking a �noodle dish. �Next, there was a cultural show. This performer demonstrated Mongolian throat singing. In �Tuvan throat singing, the performer produces a fundamental pitch and—simultaneously— one or more pitches over that. The history of Tuvan throat singing reaches far back. Many male herders can throat sing, but women are beginning to practice the technique as well. The popularity of throat singing among Tuvans seems to have arisen as a result of geographic location and culture. The open landscape of Tuva allows for the sounds to carry a great distance. Often, singers travel far into the countryside looking for the right river, or go up to the steppes of the mountainside to create the proper environment for throatsinging. Wikipedia. Authors note: you can find examples of throat singing online. Children performing the camel dance. �These performers wore traditional Mongolian dress. The woman also sang. �Later that day the group flew back to Ulaanbaatar for one last night in a hotel. Craig flew home early the next morning. At the airport he saw a statue of an ancient Mongolian soldier. The airport was named Chinggis Khan International airport, of course. So ends the Mongolian adventure. �Sometimes �Oliver makes me laugh. Today we saw a wonderful video clip of Oliver playing a piano book. I’m sorry I can’t share it with you. Tomorrow is another day. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-28_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-382 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-28 Title A name given to the resource Day 382 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/887bb82abf029e1e52af6beddf2f0c16.pdf d0d0b374be7bb7c2be2d2fdc20fc55ae PDF Text Text Day 381. Saturday March 27. by windoworks We’re almost at the end of March! Every day I catch myself thinking things like: what will our bedroom look like in July? What sort of porch furniture will the buyers have? I’m calling them the buyers because its just over a week until we close. Its a split closing. The buyers will close at 1pm on Monday April 5, somewhere in Detroit. We will close at 3pm somewhere in an office on Plainfield. There are so many details to think about. The house across the road from us was sold on Monday, 4 days after the showing. There’s a big SOLD sign on top of the For Sale sign - but surely the sale is still pending? It takes 4-6 weeks to close on a house, unless there were no inspections, no appraisal and the buyer paid in cash. I am watching in interest. From April 5 we are renting our house back from the buyers. How weird does that feel? Craig took out renters insurance for the 3 months, so we’re covered for any accidents etc. Yesterday, this popped up on my FB page from the City of Grand Rapids : This was forwarded on from the State of Michigan Health & Human Services. We do get tornadoes touching down in Michigan. Last year we had 3, but while there was damage it was nothing compared to the last 2 weeks in the southern states. Still, its good to be prepared. Our safe shelter is our basement and when the siren sounds we have to go down there and stay down there until the siren stops. They run a test on all the sirens across the state on the first Friday of the month at 12 noon precisely. The test runs for 2 minutes. Each siren which is situated at the top of a high pole rotates during the 2 minutes - which is why the sound alternates between louder and softer. �I remember the first time I heard a practice siren. It was really scary to my uneducated ears. Then, not long after we had moved into our house and on a day Craig was at school, there was a siren sounding on a day that wasn’t the first Friday and wasn’t at 12 noon. I remember standing on the back porch and shouting across to my neighbor John through his kitchen window: what is that? He told me to go inside because it was a tornado warning. The first time the sirens sounded in the middle of the night was in summer and we had the air conditioner going in our bedroom. I remember waking up and saying to Craig: turn off the a/c, I think I can hear a siren. Sure enough, the siren was sounding and outside the wind and rain were lashing the house. We got up and ran downstairs and Craig said: I’m just going outside to have a look. He wanted to sit on the porch and watch in case it came down our street but I made him come back inside. The next morning when we were talking about it with our neighbors they said: you did what?? And then pointed out that by the time you see the tornado coming, its too late to go to safety. A couple of years ago, there was another tornado siren before we went to bed, so Craig and I and the dog went down into the basement while the rain and wind lashed the house. Suddenly the siren stopped and so did the rain and wind. We went back upstairs and out onto the front porch. 30 seconds later, our neighbor John came out of hiss basement door, shone a bright flashlight at us and shouted: get back in the basement! It isn’t over yet! So down we went to the basement and the siren and the wind and rain started up again. When the siren stopped again, we went back upstairs and out on to the front porch and asked John, who was standing on his front porch: can we come out now and he said yes. It appears that when we came up the first time it was the eye of the storm. I must add that our dog Murphy was very unsettled by the whole experience and she never liked the basement anyway. Here’s a interesting thought and actually a few friends can attest to its truth: �Last night we were talking to my brother and his wife who live in Campbell River on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. They are getting the first Pfizer shot on Tuesday but won’t get the second shot for 2-3 months time. Canada is struggling to get sufficient vaccine supplies. My brother is almost 79 and I am so surprised that he hasn’t been fully vaccinated already. This is the one thing that the US is doing well. More and more of my friends are either fully vaccinated or in the process of being vaccinated. It does take perseverance to get that first shot though. My brother told us that British Columbia is struggling with increasing cases of both the UK variant and the Brazilian one. In Brazil, things have gone from worse to catastrophic and what anti vaxxers here in the US refuse to understand is that unvaccinated people greatly increase the risk of more surges because the virus has lots �of fresh meat to infect. Here’s what’s happening in Kent County, where yesterday Dr Adam London, the Chief Medical Officer told us to hunker down. Yesterday we had 298 new confirmed cases. These include patients who were taken to hospital. The true number for the day was probably closer to 900, many of whom are asymptomatic. When you look at the graphs for Kent County and Michigan, Kent is slowly rising but Michigan is sharply rising. The new cases are almost exclusively people aged between 30 and 50 years of age. For us aged 65+ there are very few new cases as those in this age group are getting vaccinated as soon as possible. And just to remind you of two things: initially Pfizer and Moderna thought they would be able to offer 50% protection from the virus. Imagine their astonishment when the results showed protection in the 90%s. Secondly, the 5% uncovered means you could still become infected BUT the resulting illness would be much milder and not result in hopsnitilation or death. Look at this new development - oh I so want one! NPR New Yorkers will become the first Americans to try out a new digital pass that shows their vaccination status and COVID-19 test results. It's an effort to help venues open up to larger groups, says New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo. Cuomo announced Friday that the state's health status certification, called the Excelsior Pass, will help New Yorkers voluntarily share vaccination and COVID-19 negative statuses with entertainment venues and other businesses to put the state's economy back on track. The state describes the pass this way: Businesses and venues can scan and validate your pass to ensure you meet any COVID-19 vaccination or testing requirements for entry. Along with your Pass, you'll be asked to show a photo ID that shows your name and birth date to verify that the Pass belongs to you. Adults may hold passes for accompanying minors. Once you and your party enter an establishment, you will still be asked to follow State and CDC guidance regarding social distancing, face coverings and hand hygiene. Participation in Excelsior Pass is voluntary. New Yorkers can always show alternate proof of vaccination or testing, like another mobile application or paper form, directly at a business or venue. And now, the second last day of Craig’s Mongolian adventure. To remind you: this was a gig for Craig. He lectured every day and in every place they visited. Day 13 �Craig went for a walk from their ger camp early in the morning at 6am and took this photo of the Gobi pastureland. There is such sparse grass that only camels can survive there. The little building shows the vastness of the Gobi. �After breakfast the group were driven to a deep gorge where nomadic armies used to hide �in and then successfully ambush Chinese armies. The gorge is so deep the sun doesn’t reach in, so ice remains right through the summer. �Gorge �selfie Petroglyphs carved on the side of a tall, rocky mountain . Hundreds of petroglyphs had been carved by nomadic groups over thousands of years. This scene shows Xiongnu horsemen with their double curved bows hunting wild animals. It dates from the first century. The Xiongnu were a tribal confederation of nomadic peoples who, according to ancient Chinese sources, inhabited the eastern Eurasian Steppe from the 3rd century BCE to the late 1st century CE. Chinese sources report that Modu Chanyu, the supreme leader after 209 BCE, founded the Xiongnu Empire. Wikipedia. �As you can see it was a long steep climb to get to the petroglyphs, which only a few of the group managed. Their inaccessibility has helped to preserve them. This is a view of the Gobi from the petroglyph mountain. One last day of Mongolia tomorrow. Are you wondering how our first excursion went? Very well. The museum was very safe and well organized and the exhibits were wonderful. Afterwards we drove to the downtown park to eat our first take out lunch in almost a year. It was such a glimpse of what life used to be and it was exhilarating and exhausting. Our daughter asked us what was our next excursion - we haven’t decided yet, but we’re thinking. Oliver. I have some wonderful videos of Oliver but I just can’t post them in this blog. �Reading a book with Great Aunt Bernie. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-27_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-381 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-27 Title A name given to the resource Day 381 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7fc5fc663373bdae79d903f5fc981042.pdf ce0202ff21ad8f50c135d75f1cbfd182 PDF Text Text Day 380 by windoworks This was posted online yesterday morning: WASHINGTON POST An outbreak of severe weather, including the likelihood of strong tornadoes, is set to slam the South on Thursday after a barrage of roughly 50 tornadoes tore through the region last week. The National Weather Service has declared a rare level 5 out of 5 “high risk” of severe thunderstorms, highlighting a volatile atmospheric setup with the potential to yield widespread and destructive storms. The high-risk zone includes Huntsville, Ala., and Tupelo, Miss. It is surrounded by a larger zone, which includes Memphis, Nashville, and Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, Ala., where the threat is rated at level 4 out of 5 and there is also a serious risk for severe weather. As if the pandemic wasn’t enough. �These are just two of the photos of destruction. I’m sure more will appear over the next couple of days. �Apparently extremely gullible. And here’s what happened in Georgia yesterday. Along with Texas, there’s a state I have no wish to ever visit again. • CNN: Republicans in Georgia have passed a sweeping elections bill that voting rights advocates say is a bald-faced attempt at voter suppression. The new law imposes new voter identification requirements for absentee ballots, empowers state officials to take over local elections boards, limits the use of ballot drop boxes and makes it a crime to approach voters in line to give them food and water. The law is seen as a win for former President Trump and his allies, who falsely claimed widespread voter fraud during the 2020 election. Trump himself pressured Georgia leaders to overturn Joe Biden's victory in the state. President Biden has called bills like this “sick” and “un-American.” Other Republican-led states are �considering similar voter suppression bills, sparking calls for federal legislation to set a national baseline for voting rules. I am astounded by these actions happening in 43 states. The Democrats, lawmakers and voters, worked so extraordinarily hard to win the last election and instead of saying (even ungraciously) okay - you won, the Republicans have lied, actively encouraged an insurrection, and continued to lie and sow dissention. And when that didn’t lead to them getting the upper hand, they have begun introducing and attempting to pass extremely rigid and unfair bills regarding voting rights and practices. All I can do is wring my hands and wail at this blatant grab for power. Trump’s legacy is a hideous one which will live on. Once Pandora’s Box is opened you can’t stuff those evils back inside. To explain: Pandora is a woman of Greek mythology. Its a long story, but here’s the nub - she had been given a vessel as a gift but instructed never to open it. So of course, eventually, she decided just to take a peek. Out flew all the evils in the world and she hastily shut the lid again - trapping hope inside. I think thats an apt parable for today, don’t you think? So here’s a story from New York Times thats causing a global catastrophe: This photo shows the manmade Suez Canal which connects the Mediterranean Sea with the Red Sea, dividing Africa and Asia. CAIRO — As tugboats strained against the weight of the mammoth ship and dredgers worked to clear sand and mud, a salvage company working on the operation warned on Thursday that releasing the �container vessel blocking traffic in the Suez Canal in Egypt could take days or even weeks. Dozens of ships laden with oil and goods destined for ports around the world are stranded in the canal, and with each passing hour, the economic cost of the disruption grows more consequential. The stuck ship, the Ever Given, has been wedged in the canal since running aground amid the heavy winds of a sandstorm on Tuesday. Its bow is lodged in the canal’s eastern bank and its stern in the western bank. As you can see from the photo above, the ship has effectively cut off all traffic in the Canal and the financial implications are enormous. Experts literally do not know how to set the ship free. It is another grey day with the promise of some sun this afternoon. This morning Craig and I are going on an excursion to Muskegon, to visit the Muskegon Art Museum. There is an Ansel Adams photography exhibition on at the moment. We are buying take out gluten free bagel sandwiches from Terra Bagels (our first take out in almost a year!) to eat for lunch after our museum visit. Its very exciting and just a little bit scary. We haven’t been inside anywhere apart from medical buildings and grocery stores for over a year! Oh, and this just in from Washington Post: Fox News has been sued by Dominion Voting for $1.6 billion over election fraud claims. It's the second voting-systems company to file suit against Fox over the bogus allegations aired by President Donald Trump's allies after the 2020 election. In the suit, filed in a Delaware court, Dominion argued that the Fox and several of its on-air personalities elevated conspiracy theories about the voting company rigging the 2020 election and allowed falsehoods by their guests to go unchecked, including a wild claim that the company’s machines were manufactured in “Venezuela to rig elections for the dictator Hugo Chávez” and that Dominion’s algorithm manipulated votes so that then-President Trump would lose. “Fox engaged in this knowing and reckless propagation of these enormous falsehoods in order to profit off these lies,” reads the lawsuit. “Fox wanted to continue to protect its broadcast ratings, catering to an audience deeply loyal to President Trump.” I wonder if Fox News has enough money to pay out these suits to stop them going to trial. Hmmm. So, Mongolia. Day 12. Very early the next morning (4am) our group flew for a couple of hours south to Dalandzagad in the Gobi. Gobi is a Mongol word for pastureland where the vegetation is so sparse it can only support Batrium camels. If the Gobi is overgrazed it turns into desert. �Our group had a different team of drivers but the same kitchen truck and cook. Here’s the group having lunch – pickled vegetables, salads, some meat, chocolate and a variety of teas. �Then everyone rode Bactrium camels across the Gobi for an hour. Here’s Craig on his camel.The Bactrian camel, also known as the Mongolian camel or domestic Bactrian camel, is a large even-toed ungulate native to the steppes of Central Asia. It has two humps on its back, in contrast to the single-humped dromedary camel. Wikipedia �After Craig’s ride he climbed a huge sand dune and took this photo of others in the party. �In the evening the group drove to the Flaming Cliffs. It was in these sandstone mountains that most of Mongolia’s dinosaur fossils have been found, perfectly preserved. After sunset the group drove back to their ger camp. Authors note: what purpose do camels humps serve? A camel's hump does not hold water at all – it actually stores fat. The camel uses it as nourishment when food is scarce. If a camel uses the fat inside the hump, the hump will become limp and droop down. … The hump is not used for water storage, but camels can go for long periods of time without water. So now you know. And time for Oliver: ��Stay safe. Numbers keep climbing in Michigan. Get tested and if you can, get vaccinated. Being fully vaccinated literally begins to open up your life in a safer way. See you tomorrow. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-26_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-380 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-26 Title A name given to the resource Day 380 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/327a3e09d283f42bae05651908fa490c.pdf 4a49905bcaa1a4312935c38a506c594c PDF Text Text Day 379 by windoworks I’m running late with writing this morning because.... I went to the hairdresser after 6 months (!) and had my hair cut and highlighted!! Amazing how exciting that outing was. First up, crooked Media hitting the nail on the head, as always. As Republicans walk around screaming that the Biden administration inherited a perfect immigration system and created an appalling border crisis, here are a couple of key things to know: Firstly, the Biden transition team started sounding the alarm about the need for more shelter space for migrant kids back in early December, but the Trump administration did nothing about it until days before the Inauguration. Secondly, there’s…not actually a crisis. A Washington Post analysis of monthly CPB data going back to 2012 found that the current increase in apprehensions at the border fits a predictable pattern of more �border crossings at this time of year, combined with migrants who would have come earlier, but for the pandemic. Are kids being held for too long in unfit DHS facilities? Absolutely, and we shouldn’t look away until that problem is solved and a better long-term system is put in place. But it’s not a problem the Biden administration created, nor is it the result of a policy-driven surge. Here is some sobering news from far away: NPR: Days of torrential rain have spawned massive flooding in eastern Australia, forcing the evacuation of some 40,000 people. In the country's arid central section, it has sent waterfalls down the side of the country's majestic Uluru rocks. Barely a year after devastating bushfires burned through tens of millions of acres in Australia, the country is grappling with one of its worst-ever floods after weather systems converged over Queensland and New South Wales, dumping more than 20 inches of rain in a single day in one area north of Brisbane. Meanwhile, one area of New South Wales received nearly 40 inches in a week — which Australia's Bureau of Meteorology said had already exceeded the average autumn rainfall less than a month into the season. The floods, which have submerged houses, stranded cattle and cut off towns, have inundated vast areas along the east coast from roughly Mackay, located about 600 miles north of Brisbane in Queensland, to Bega in New South Wales, some 260 miles south of Sydney. The premier of New South Wales, Gladys Berejiklian, said Wednesday that residents in Sydney's western regions are under new evacuation orders. �A local resident paddles along a flooded street in the Sydney suburb of McGraths Hill on Wednesday. What we still have to be aware of is the fact that thousands and thousands of people are still on evacuation warnings, that the rivers will continue to swell, that catchments will continue to experience flows of water not seen in 50 years and in some places 100 years," she told reporters in Sydney, Reuters reports. On Wednesday, the bodies of two men were recovered from flooded vehicles. One man, 25, died when his car was submerged in northwest Sydney. He reached an emergency operator and was on the line for 44 minutes until contact was lost, The Sydney Morning Herald reports. �Multiple waterfalls from heavy rains cascade over the rock formations at the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park in the Northern Territory, Australia, earlier this week. Near Alice Springs in central Australia, tourists have flocked to Uluru, also known Ayers Rock, to catch a rare glimpse of cascading waterfalls at the reddish-orange rock formation. Park officials say 46 millimeters (1.8 inches) of rain fell there over the weekend – about a sixth of the average annual rainfall in the region. While the event isn't unprecedented, it is uncommon. "Rainwater on the rock's surface causes it to change colour. From dark burgundy to shining silver and even black, every side of Uluru takes a different shade, making this spectacle a photographer's delight. Following the rain, desert plants bloom and many animals emerge to mate and feed," staff at Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park said on Facebook. The Warragamba Dam, located on the western outskirts of Sydney, has been spilling the equivalent of the city's famous harbor in water each day. It's expected to continue its overflow for at least another week, threatening highly populated areas, Morrison said. "We advise that the rain and flood situation does remain dynamic and extremely complex," he said. The gun debate is heating up again. From New York Times: More guns mean more deaths Republican members of Congress often claim otherwise. After the Boulder shootings, John Thune of South Dakota, the Senate’s second-ranking Republican, dismissed calls for restricting gun availability, saying, “There’s not a big appetite among our members to do things that would appear to be addressing it, but actually don’t do anything to fix the problem.” But there is overwhelming evidence that this country has a �unique problem with gun violence, mostly because it has unique gun availability. It’s not just that every other high-income country in the world has many fewer guns and many fewer gun deaths. It’s also that U.S. states with fewer guns — like California, Illinois, Iowa and much of the Northeast — have fewer gun deaths. And when state or local governments have restricted gun access, deaths have often declined, Michael Siegel of Boston University’s School of Public Health says. ��And here’s an image that speaks louder than words: Heather Cox Richardson’s daily pieces are always worth reading. Here’s a little from yesterday’s post: After former President Donald Trump tweeted that his supporters should travel to Washington, D.C., on January 6 for a rally that “will be wild!,” Kelly Meggs, a member of the Oath Keepers, wrote on Facebook: “He wants us to make it WILD that’s what he’s saying. He called us all to the Capitol and wants us to make it wild!!! Sir Yes Sir!!! Gentlemen we are heading to DC pack your s***!!” In a series of messages, Meggs went on to make plans with another individual for an attack on the process of counting the electoral votes. On December 25, Meggs told his correspondent that “Trumps staying in, he’s Gonna use the emergency �broadcast system on cell phones to broadcast to the American people. Then he will claim the insurrection act…. Then wait for the 6th when we are all in DC to insurrection.” And then..... In the 19 days after the election, Trump and the Republican National Committee took in more than $207 million, prompted mostly by their claims of election fraud. John Horgan, who runs the Violent Extremism Research Group at Georgia State University, told Smith that “Trump successfully convinced many of his followers that unless they acted, and acted fast, their very way of life was about to come to an end…. He presented a catastrophic scenario whereby if the election was — for him — lost, his followers would suffer as a result. He made action not just imperative, but urgent, convincing his followers that they needed to do everything they could now, rather than later, to prevent the ‘enemy’ from claiming victory.” And also.... On Monday, (Sydney) Powell argued that “no reasonable person would conclude” that her statements about a scheme to rig the election “were truly statements of fact.” Eric Wilson, a Republican political technologist, explained away the Big Lie to NBC News’s Smith: “[T]here are a lot of dumb people in the world…. And a lot of them stormed the Capitol on January 6th.” And yet, 147 Republicans—8 senators and 139 representatives—signed onto the Big Lie, voting to sustain objections to the counting of the electoral votes on January 6. Finally.... Rather than trying to pass popular measures to make up the ground they have lost, Republicans are trying to suppress voting. By mid-February, in 43 states, Republicans had introduced 253 bills to restrict voting. Today, Republicans in Michigan introduced 39 more such bills. In at least 8 states, Republicans are trying to gain control over elections, taking power from nonpartisan election boards, secretaries of state, and governors. Had their systems been in place in 2020, Republicans could have overturned the will of the voters. To stop these state laws, Democrats are trying to pass a sweeping federal voting rights bill, the For the People Act, which would protect voting, make it easier to vote, end gerrymandering, and get dark money out of politics. The bill has already passed the House, but Republicans in the Senate are fighting it with all they’ve got. And the final word goes to... Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) told them: “This is infuriating. I would like to ask my Republican colleagues: Why are you so afraid of democracy? Why, instead of trying to win voters over that you lost in the last election, are you trying to prevent them from voting?” �Here’s great example of Republicans duty of care: To cheer you up: �Time for Day 11 in Mongolia �A new view from Craig’s new hotel room, looking in the other direction. Below you can see a wedding palace on the right, a monastery up and to the left and behind, a glimpse of Sukhbaatar Square – the center of Ulaanbaatar . �This temple is the Choijiin Lama temple, part of the Choijiin Buddhist Monastery that could be seen from Graig’s hotel room. The complex consists of six temples originally occupied by the brother of the ruler the Eighth Bogd Jetsun �Dampa Khan, Choijin Lama Luvsankhaidav, who was the state oracle and 'Precious Wisdom and Clear Devotion' Khutugtu at the time. The complex was begun in 1904 and completed in 1908, in honor of the State Oracle Lama Lubsanhaidub /Losang Kedrup/, brother of the eighth Bogd Khan.Wikipedia �Next the group visited the Gandan monastery- the most important Buddhist site in the country. It houses this giant golden Buddha statue, several stories high.The original statue, made of copper, was built after appeals to the �Mongolian public; its intent was to restore the sight of the 8th Jebtsundamba, also known as Bogd Khan), who had claimed the title of Emperor of Mongolia. The statue was built by Bogd Javzandamba's principal minister, Chin Wan Khanddorj. Russian troops dismantled the original statue in 1938.After the end of the Soviet era, the statue of Avalokiteśvara was rebuilt in 1996, funded by donations by the Mongolian people. It features 2,286 precious stones and is gilded with gold leaf.Wikipedia Tomorrow the group sets off for the next part of their road trip across Mongolia Oliver and his father, Christian. On Thursdays Zoe goes in to the office and then goes out for dinner with friends after work. So Christian picks Oliver up from daycare, brings him home to Zoe’s house, feds him, baths him, puts him to bed and babysits until Zoe comes home. ���See you tomorrow. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-25_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-379 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-25 Title A name given to the resource Day 379 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a9c700f9ccadd47bbfb93a52ab413e50.pdf 9bd4ed86c79803d1aadc4a2e86a9c2a8 PDF Text Text Day 378 by windoworks There is a huge ongoing discussion about honey bees being in danger of extinction. From what I’ve read, that’s an oversimplification. Because we love honey so much, we have overwhelmed other bee species with large numbers of hives. As you can see from the above, honey bees need to be more aggressive than other bees to gather enough pollen and nectar to produce honey. Now everyone is worried that without honey bees, crops such as corn etc., won’t be pollinated. But its not so much the ordinary (is that a word you can use with bees?) honey bee that pollinates crops - it is more likely to be the native honey bees. AGDaily: The truth is that there are eight species of bees that have been placed on the endangered list: different species of Hawaiian yellow-faced bees in 2016 and, more recently, the Rusty patched bumble bee. Honey bees, and other species, are not on this list, nor have they ever been. The causes for the loss of �the aforementioned endangered bee species are widely believed to be due to habitat loss, natural disasters, and invasive species. And from the EPA: Colony Collapse Disorder is the phenomenon that occurs when the majority of worker bees in a colony disappear and leave behind a queen, plenty of food and a few nurse bees to care for the remaining immature bees and the queen. Once thought to pose a major long term threat to bees, reported cases of CCD have declined substantially over the last five years. This is a photo of a mini meadow - one that you could have in your back garden, Craig and I are quite keen on mini meadows - but they take quite a bit of hard work to establish. FYI, meadows are great for all bees and other wildlife. Craig faithfully followed the advice Monty Don gave us on last year’s Gardeners World, a British gardening show on Friday nights which helped to keep our spirits up through some of the worst days of the pandemic. Our meadow is still in its infant stage. Each week, Monty and his team would show us how to grow and maintain any size of garden, including windowsill pots. They asked people to send in clips of their gardening efforts and they were utterly overwhelmed with submissions, from all over Britain and all around the world. Each week they showed a number of submissions and we marveled at lush gardens in pots on thick concreted front yards; spectacular Asian delicacies grown in homemade glasshouses; children’s vegetable gardens; sustaining gardens on shed roofs and barges - the list goes on and on. Each week the presenters acknowledged the �pandemic but lifted us up with gardening possibilities. Presenters with extra time on their hands transformed their own gardens completely (and showed us step by step how to do it). We ached with sympathy when one of Monty’s beloved dogs, Nigel, died. Monty was inconsolable. Then Nell, his second Golden Retriever, had an accident fetching a stick and Monty thought he was going to lose her too. Thankfully Nell recovered and Monty got another dog, Patti, a dear little Yorkshire Terrier. The dogs follow him all around the huge garden and always feature heavily in each episode. I’m telling you this because last night Craig and I watched the first episode of Gardeners World for 2021. So many people took refuge in gardens and plants in 2020. Flowers, bees, birds and our own grown fruits and vegetables lifted our spirits in some of the darkest days. Last night Monty showed us how to plant chili seeds and will guide us through planting out and harvesting. He also showed us the best way to ensure an ongoing crop of broad beans and promised to guide us step by step, in successful potato growing in containers as well as garden beds. I am looking forward to another year of delights from Gardeners World. In news stories: the gun debate is once again on the table as is the Second Amendment which some gun owners say specifically allows every citizen to own any number of guns for no reason whatsoever. In the military coup in Myanmar, at least 275 people have been killed and up to 2,400 people have been jailed. The bias in news outlets in the US leans heavily towards negative, following the old adage ‘If it bleeds, it leads’. North Korea tested 2 short range missiles in an opening salvo to the Biden/Harris Administration. Finally, Sydney Powell’s defense in her pending lawsuit brought by Dominion (voting machines) is, and I quote: No reasonable person would conclude that the (my) statements were truly statements of fact’. Ladies and gentlemen, the defense rests. For more on gun control, here’s this from Crooked Media: We know stricter gun control would save lives, we know Americans overwhelmingly want it, and we know that while simply whispering the words “voter fraud” dishonestly into the wind is enough to launch hundreds of voter-suppression bills, no number of real mass shootings in a week will convince Republicans to take action. Until Democrats resolve to do so without them, we’re stuck with the national “normal” Barack Obama described: “We should be able to live our lives without wondering if the next trip outside our home could be our last. We should. But in America, we can’t.” And here’s another light at the end of the tunnel moment from Crooked Media: Oakland, CA has become the latest city to launch a universal basic income pilot program, which will allocate $500 per month to low-income families. �Bloomberg says that so far 128M doses have been administered in the US, at an average of 2.50M doses a day. Australia has 286K doses given, enough for 0.6% of the population. In New Zealand, 27K doses given, enough to cover 0.3% of the population. Hmmm. From the New York Times: Biden’s advisers are preparing a set of proposals intended to reshape the U.S. economy and other parts of American life. If they pass, they will almost certainly have a more lasting effect on people’s lives than the virus-relief bill that Biden signed two weeks ago. And while the proposals include measures on health care and taxes, they are broader — more diffuse, a critic might say — than the top priorities of other recent presidents. During last year’s campaign, Biden described the package with the phrase “build back better.” It is an attempt to create a more prosperous, equal and sustainable economy. It’s the Democratic Party’s answer to decades of rising inequality and growing damage from climate change. Infrastructure. The centerpiece of the package is a set of proposals to improve the country’s infrastructure, including money for roads, bridges, broadband access and energy-efficient houses and electric cars. Many of the infrastructure provisions are “directly related to the fight against climate change,” our colleague Jim Tankersley told us. “Administration officials essentially see those two goals — building out 21st century infrastructure and transitioning to a low-carbon future — as inseparable.” Education. Biden wants to expand public education on both ends of the age spectrum. His plan is likely to make pre-K universal for both 3- and 4-year-olds, through federal funding of local programs, and would increase funding for community colleges. The ultimate goal is to move the public-education system from its current K-12 system to something that starts at age 3 and extends through two years of college. Child payments and paid leave. The virus-relief bill included a few large items to help middle-class and poor families — but they all expire in the next year or so. This new package would extend a monthly child payment that starts at $250 per child for most families, as well as a big expansion of paid family leave. These provision would significantly reduce both economic and racial inequalities. Health care. Biden’s plan would expand Obamacare by extending several two-year provisions in the virusrelief bill, The Times’s Margot Sanger-Katz says. It would cut costs for nearly every family that receives coverage through the law and expand subsidies to some making more than $100,000 a year. �Back to Mongolia. Day 10 �Very early the next morning Craig climbed a high hill in the Hustai National Park. On the summit there was cairn with Buddhist prayer flags draped all over it . �Next the group started driving back towards Ulaanbaatar on the last day of this first road trip. There are very few roads in Mongolia and the drivers drove across grass steppe and arid plains in the 4 wheel drive vehicles. They drove very fast and Craig snapped this photo out of his car window. �A shot through the front windscreen �Just outside of the park there was a visit to a Turkic Memorial from about the 7th century. Here again are Balbals honoring slain enemies, stretching across the steppe. �On the way back to the hotel, the group visited the Hunnu Mall. Mongolia has one of the great dinosaur collections in the world which were mostly discovered in the Gobi region. Because the National History Museum was under renovation, many perfect dinosaur remains were housed in this mall. �The next two nights were spent resting and relaxing in Ulaanbaatar before heading to the Gobi. That first evening before dinner the group drove up Zaisan hill in the heart of the city to view the Soviet Era murals.The Zaisan Memorial is a memorial in the southern area of the Mongolian capital of Ulaanbaatar that honors allied Mongolian and Soviet soldiers killed in World War II. Wikipedia More Mongolia tomorrow. Oliver ��And lastly (and I’m embarrassed by this) someone sent me a video of hummingbirds yesterday which came into my inbox when I was walking at Millenium Park - and I accidentally deleted it before I read it. If you are reading this and you sent it to me - could you please send it again and tag it with your name? Thanks. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-24_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-378 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-24 Title A name given to the resource Day 378 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/355decad81f29634aa1b69835aa5ab70.pdf c3e904cc759e2986833cf7adc451fad4 PDF Text Text Day 377 by windoworks It is a gloomy, threatening day. The high today will be 70F (21C). I think today marks the last day of unusually high March temperatures. I have noticed some trees with leaf buds already - so Spring really is here. Although, this appeared in my FB feed yesterday: Well thats never happened before. The other day Craig was listening to NPR and the program was discussing Grand Rapid’s success with addressing storm water issues. Driving around Grand Rapids (as we have done for the past year) we noticed many preserved marsh areas. At the moment my favorite place to walk is Huff Park, a marsh area with boardwalks above the marsh and, depending on the weather, lots of �birds singing happily. Oh and on the topic of birds - if you put out bird seed, especially in the plastic holders, you must clean them between refills. Apparently birds are contracting diseases from the seed holders and it is endangering wildlife. This is the first year I won’t be putting out hummingbird feeders. Last year the hummingbirds drank the nectar almost faster than I could refill it. I did get a great deal of enjoyment watching all the birds that came to our feeding station - a real plus in the darkest days of the pandemic. Have you noticed friends and neighbors planning events for as soon as everyone is fully vaccinated? Its the new rule of thumb and it honestly gladdens my heart. There will still be masks and hand washing and some distancing. but what an encouraging development. However, in some parts of the world, things are not going so well: CNN In Brazil, hospitals are near collapse and the country reported spiking case numbers over the last week. No Brazilian states have ICU occupancy rates below 70%, and only two have occupancy below 80%. Thankfully, the first batch of coronavirus vaccines sent through the COVAX program arrived in Brazil yesterday. India is also seeing ominous numbers. Infections there have been increasing for almost a week, and the latest numbers mark the biggest case rise since November. And even though I said I didn’t have the energy to keep up with current events, here are some items worth noting: Washington Post:The Supreme Court will consider restoring the Boston Marathon bomber’s death sentence. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev carried out the deadly 2013 attack with his brother, Tamerlan, who was later killed in a shootout with police. An appeals court determined the judge in Tsarnaev’s trial did not adequately vet potential jurors for bias and ordered a new penalty-phase trial to determine whether Tsarnaev should be executed. Hmm. Well that’s interesting but wait! What about this? Its huge: Washington Post: Evanston, Ill., approves nation’s first government reparations program for African Americans. The $10 million program will acknowledge historic harm caused by discriminatory housing policies, practices and inaction going back more than a century. Homeownership and improvement grants as well as mortgage assistance will be offered to Black residents who can show they are direct descendants of individuals who lived in the city between 1919 and 1969. Other initiatives will follow as part of the 10year effort. Lets just think about that for a minute. What a giant step forward. �Now, as I was checking my emails yesterday, a story happening in real time popped up. I didn’t watch it, but here’s what is known, so far: CNN: Ten people, including a police officer, were killed yesterday afternoon after a gunman opened fire in a grocery store in Boulder, Colorado. The attack unfolded just before 3 p.m. local time as customers in the King Soopers store waited in line for Covid-19 vaccines and shopped. Among those killed was 51-year-old Officer Eric Talley, who was the first police officer to respond. Police haven’t released details about the rest of the victims yet. A suspect is in custody, but so far police have declined to comment on his identity, a motive or the specific weapon. A senior law enforcement source said the shooter used an AR-15-style rifle. The shooting comes just days after another killing spree took the lives of eight people at spas around Atlanta. Together, these tragedies have renewed calls for stricter gun control legislation. I looked up the gun laws in Colorado and they seem fairly strict. There are further restrictions in cities such as Boulder and Vail. And yet, yesterday’s mass shooting occurred. On another topic entirely, the movement to make the District of Columbia a state is afoot. The proposed state would be known as the "State of Washington, Douglass Commonwealth". There is Republican resistance (but of course) but it may end up passing. At the heart of all Republican resistance is the Filibuster. A filibuster is a political procedure where one or more members of Parliament or Congress debate over a proposed piece of legislation to delay or entirely prevent a decision being made on the proposal. Wikipedia Crooked Media: At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this very good and popular proposal has little chance of making it through the Senate unless Democrats do something about the filibuster. At the risk of sounding like a broken record that nevertheless slaps, it seems like they just might! On Friday night, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) became the latest Democratic holdout to come out as reform-curious. Senate Disenfranchisement Leader Mitch McConnnell has published an op-ed in the Courier-Journal screeching that the filibuster is the last bulwark against socialism (while accidentally strengthening a pro-reform argument), evidently sensing that his filibustering days are numbered. Day 9: In the morning the group drove to the ruins of Harbuh. This was a fortress built by the Khitan in the 10th century. The Khitan established an enormous empire across the Northern Steppe and posed all sorts of problems for the Koreans and Chinese. Theirs was the last great empire of the Steppe before the Mongols. �The first visit was a tiny museum at the site. In this photograph Craig is holding Khitan �tools and weapons. It was a huge fortress. Only the walls are the original Khitan structure - other buildings date to the 16th century. The group spent half an hour walking around the walls. �In the afternoon, the group drove to the Hustai National Park to view the famous Przewalski horses. This was as close as the group was allowed to get. The Mongolian Government declared Hustai National Park as a Specially Protected Area in 1993, one year after the initiation of the reintroduction project of the Takhi (Przewalski's horse) to the Hustain Nuruu. The HNP extends through the Khentii Mountains and includes the western edge of the Mongolian steppe at the boundaries of Altanbulag, Argalant and Bayankhangai Soums of Töv Province. The park is about 100 km from the capital city of Ulaanbaatar to the west. Wikipedia Przewalski's horse also called the takhi, Mongolian wild horse or Dzungarian horse, is a rare and endangered horse originally native to the steppes of Central Asia. At one time extinct in the wild, it has been reintroduced to its native habitat since the 1990s in Mongolia at the Khustain Nuruu National Park, Takhin Tal Nature Reserve, and Khomiin Tal, as well as several other locales in Central Asia and Eastern Europe.The taxonomic position is still debated, with some taxonomists treating Przewalski's horse as a species, E. przewalskii, others as a subspecies of wild horse (E. ferus przewalskii) or a feral variety of the domesticated horse (E. f. caballus). It is named after the Russian geographer and explorer Nikołaj Przewalski. Most "wild" horses today, such as the American mustang or the Australian brumby, are actually feral horses descended from domesticated animals that escaped and adapted to life in the wild. Przewalski's horse has long been considered the only remaining extant, non-domesticated wild horse. �However, a 2018 DNA study suggested that modern Przewalski's horses may descend from the domesticated horses of the Botai culture. Wikipedia Yes, Mongolia continues tomorrow, especially if I remind Craig to talk about his photos to me the day before. This morning I had to wait reading my book until he returned home from his early morning walk and then we conferred on his photographs. Oliver. �Listening to a boat story. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-23_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-377 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-23 Title A name given to the resource Day 377 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/618f0d8093e6daea155fe6be7c4e2b1e.pdf 34e66f383ced341249b5c3c2588333da PDF Text Text Day 376. 15 weeks until we fly out. by windoworks Today marks the day Craig and I are both classified as fully covered by the Pfizer vaccine. Today is also the day that people aged 16+ with certain conditions can be vaccinated, but in 2 more weeks, everyone who wants a vaccination in Michigan, can schedule one. Now its not quite that easy. In the house on one side of our house, one has been fully vaccinated for some time as a middle school teacher and her spouse has had his first dose. On the other side, one has had her first dose and is 2 weeks from the second dose but the spouse is struggling to get an appointment for his first dose. Its easy to talk about this as a fully vaccinated person, but getting that first appointment is not easy. Once you have the first dose they automatically schedule your second dose - all 4 weeks later. My unvaccinated friends wonder if it makes a difference to your life. For Craig and I, we are thinking that Friday this week might be our first foray into take out food at lunchtime. There’s also an Anselm Adams exhibition at a nearby art museum we’d like to see - but immediately after the museum opens in the morning, before the crowds build up. Its both a scary and an exciting thought. Meanwhile Spring Break happened, much as it always has, in Miami Florida - except maybe a little more frenetic this year. Here’s a photo from the Daily Beast: �BBC: A state of emergency has been declared in the US city of Miami Beach over concerns large crowds gathering for spring break pose a coronavirus risk. A 20:00-06:00 curfew has been announced in the island city that will remain in effect until at least 12 April. Traffic restrictions are in place during the curfew, while businesses in the busy South Beach area must close. Miami Beach Mayor Dan Gelber said thousands of tourists had brought "chaos and disorder" to the city. "It feels like a rock concert, wall-to-wall people over blocks and blocks," Mr Gelber told CNN. "If you're coming here to go crazy, go somewhere else." Spring break is a holiday period for schools and universities in the US that usually takes place in March or April. It attracts thousands of students to Florida and other warm-weather destinations around the country. Officials warned tourists to "vacation responsibly or be arrested" prior to the holiday period, and a countywide midnight coronavirus curfew was already in place due to the pandemic. But the Miami Beach area was thronged with revellers over the weekend, and many did not appear to be wearing masks or socially distancing. One city official described South Beach, which includes the world-famous Ocean Drive, as being "overwhelmed" by crowds on Saturday. "You couldn't see pavement and you couldn't see grass," city manager Raul Aguila said. He added that the emergency measures were "necessary not only to protect our residents but our visitors, including our spring breakers who we want to keep safe". �On Sunday, Miami Beach police told CNN they had arrested at least a dozen people after the curfew had come into force. The Miami Herald newspaper said police used pepper-spray balls to enforce the curfew. Until the measures are lifted, police will prevent pedestrians and vehicles from entering the South Beach area's main party strips. On Sunday, the Miami Beach city commission voted to extend the curfew and other measures for up to three more weeks. At an emergency meeting, Mayor Gelber told the commission South Beach had become "a tinder over the last couple of weeks". He said tourists had flooded into the city since Florida Governor Ron DeSantis called the state an "oasis of freedom" from coronavirus restrictions late last month. Florida continues to be a coronavirus hotspot in the US. The state has recorded nearly two million of the country's 29 million infections since the pandemic began. The latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows Florida has recorded about 4,300 new infections a day on average over the past week. And just when you think there’s light at the end of the tunnel: Bridge, Michigan: A greater portion of coronavirus tests are coming back positive across Michigan, with 8.5 percent of all tests reported Saturday confirming a new infection. That pushes the rate over the past week to 7.3 percent. It was 5.2 percent a week earlier. Those higher rates produced 2,660 new confirmed coronavirus cases on Saturday, pushing the seven-day average to 2,482 daily cases. Michigan now has the fourth-highest rate of new infections in the country. So, which part of - its not over yet - do some people not understand? In Australia and New Zealand the borders are closed to almost everyone except returning citizens. Once you fly in, you are escorted to a quarantine hotel, where you are locked in a hotel room for 2 weeks. You are tested for the virus about 3 times, with the last test administered 2 days before your quarantine ends. In New Zealand, once out of quarantine, you are instructed to isolate for a further 5 days. When outbreaks occur, genomic testing is used to discover the point of origin and some areas are sequestered and all residents tested. New Zealand is in the process of vaccinating border staff, medical staff, and essential workers. Australia has a similar plan to Michigan with categories 1a, 1b, 2a and 2b. 2b includes the balance of the unvaccinated population. In the latest news from the Australian government, the borders will remain closed to tourists until some time (as yet unspecified) in 2022. In two pieces of good news: one of Craig’s students is buying Craig’s father’s tenor saxophone and (and this is big news), a friend of ours will happily take our piano! For a while there I thought we would either have to put it outside for any interested passerby or, hide it somewhere in the depths of the basement for the new owners to discover - well not really, but the first idea was gaining traction. �Yesterday Craig opened the storm windows in some rooms as the current weather pattern is quite warm for late March. For today and tomorrow the high will be 67F (19.4C). The lowest temperature in the next 10 days is 41F (5C) on Friday. Having the bedroom windows open at night is a mixed blessing: the room is cooler and its easier to sleep, but you hear the trains go through the crossings and this morning we were woken up by the neighbor over the road’s dog barking. I could write about all the draconian measures State Republicans are trying to force through in order to keep racism and white supremacy alive. Yesterday I asked my oldest child to name a platform or policy being put forward in Congress by Republicans. He sat and thought for a moment after I said “I’ll wait”, and then he shook his head and said “Blocking anything the Democrats propose” - which is not actually a platform or proposal. We both laughed ruefully. The truth is, for me, that I can no longer expend my energy on this. I appreciate all the organizations that are working hard to make a change for the better, but more and more, my future lies in Australia, where plenty of issues deserve my attention and strength. This says it all for me too. I sometimes stumble going upstairs. It means nothing. �Oh, and in light of all the storms that Happened in Texas and the tornadoes last week in Alabama and Georgia, the Michigan government posted this on FB: Because you never know. So Mongolia, day 8. �Still in the Orkhon Valley, we visited Kharbalgas. Kharbalgas in Mongolian means "black city". It forms part of the Orkhon Valley Cultural Landscape World Heritage Site. This was one of the cities built by the Uighur Empire which ruled much of Mongolia and Western China in the 8th & 9th centuries. In the center of the city was a fortress on top in which the Khan lived in a golden ger, that was visible for miles around. The group spent an hour or so exploring the ruins. �Craig with Kharbalgas on the hill behind him. �Next was a visit to a museum erected by the Turkish government to view the huge stone �stele of Bilge Khaghan, one of the rulers of the first Turkic Empire.This stone is inscribed with Turkic runes on one side and Chinese characters on the other and it recounts the Creation Myth of the Turks – whose original homeland was Mongolia. In the afternoon the group drove to the next ger camp at Ugii Lake. Craig photographed a family erecting a ger. �A beautiful sunset over the lake to end a memorable day. And Oliver, of course. �Blurry shot, but this balancing is serious business �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-22_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-376 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-22 Title A name given to the resource Day 376 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/603b6e1de63473bdbdf218bc3641409a.pdf 93e8bd6905ab3398ba7fe571e0e53326 PDF Text Text Day 375 by windoworks It wasn’t until later in the day yesterday, that I looked at the calendar and realized it was the first day of Spring. It was a lovely day, warmer and sunny. Today promises to be even warmer and perhaps it is time to open the storm windows. It is strange to think that someone else will lower the storm windows into place when Fall arrives later this year. Tomorrow we are fully vaccinated. Are we almost fully vaccinated today with just one percent or more to go? And how long does this vaccination protection last? I know the scientists are researching as fast as they can and will have an answer sometime soon. I read this yesterday and I must admit it made me teary: The Atlantic editor in chief, Jeffrey Goldberg. I visited our empty headquarters recently. The heat was off, light bulbs flickered, and desks were still covered in work we were doing on March 11, 2020. The cognitive dissonance was striking: In the weeks and months that followed our departure, The Atlantic’s virtual newsroom performed magnificently. In my opinion (and yes, please take into account the built-in biases of the editor in chief), our pandemic year may be recognized as the greatest sustained stretch of excellent journalism in our 164-year history. And my colleagues did everything on Zoom, in sweatpants, and with crying babies just off-camera, all while enduring grief, exhaustion, sickness, and loneliness. All of us have experienced loss in the past year. Some of you are mourning loved ones, and dear friends, lost in the pandemic. Many of you have experienced almost-unendurable periods of quarantine and burden and worry. This has been, in so many ways, a dreadful year, and our thoughts are with you. I feel as though, for all this time, I have been searching for that one word that so completely describes the past year and now 10 days more: dreadful. That one word encompasses so many feelings: past, present and ongoing. It covers the loss of freedom, the hours of boredom, the grieving for lost time spent with friends and neighbors, the loneliness and the mix of irritation and gratitude for Craig, my steadfast companion for these 375 days and for the next 106 days until we leave. May I add here that yesterday (and the day before), I was so overwhelmed and exhausted by this pandemic that I spent both days binge watching a series on TV. When you feel as though you just can’t cope anymore, TV is enormously comforting and relaxing. It seems a little more encouraging that the backlog of Australians desperate to return home has lessened as a lot more have successfully made it back. So we might get on the flight on July 5. Yesterday, against my wishes but with my reluctant approval, Craig climbed up our neighbors 40 foot ladder and sealed the edges of the front attic dormer windows. He had tried unsuccessfully to hire someone to do this - roofers �won’t do it and all possible handymen we called were too busy. It was the last job completed before closing. �Here is an inelegant photo of Craig climbing onto the roof. If you look carefully you can see �the ladder is tied to a hook under my closet oval window. The ladder was also staked in the grass to stop it from slipping. I refused to watch. Here’s something we should all know. I believe the House Democrats are formulating a way to remove Marjorie Taylor Greene from Congress altogether: MoveOn.org This is a list of Republicans in the Sedition Caucus who helped incite a white supremacist attack on the Capitol, don’t support the passage of the Violence Against Women Act, and continuously stand in the way of progress for our country. Ted Cruz (R-TX) Josh Hawley (R-MO) Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-MS) Rick Scott (R-FL) Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) Lauren Boebert (R-CO) Madison Cawthorn (R-NC) Just sayin’ Difficult discussions are being had about police funding. Here’s a good piece from Washington Post: Since the police killing of George Floyd in May 2020 unleashed what may have been the largest protest movement in U.S. history, the nation has been fiercely debating how to respond — to his horrifying �death, and to those of Breonna Taylor, Tony McDade and so many other Black Americans at the hands of police. Some energy has been directed at accountability for specific acts, exemplified by the trial of the man charged in Floyd’s killing, former police officer Derek Chauvin, underway this month. Some has been directed at reforming police training, discipline and other policies. Several state legislatures have updated use-of-force policies and restricted or banned the use of chokeholds and neck restraints. Some departments now require police officers to intervene when they witness misconduct — a response to the other officers who watched Mr. Chauvin kneel on the neck of an unarmed man as he begged for his life. But the fiercest and potentially most consequential debate is over mounting a more fundamental response to these tragically familiar incidents. The discussion has been dominated by disagreements over the meaning and merit of “defunding the police.” Some interpretations of the provocative slogan are concerning, but as we wrote over the summer, the mantra is helpful as shorthand for an essential truth: We need to reimagine public safety. Today, community activists and law enforcement officers who see eye to eye on precious little agree on this: We rely too much on the police. From the proverbial cat stuck in a tree to an armed hostage crisis, police are the first port of call for a dizzying array of dilemmas. In the words of a former Dallas police chief, “Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve. Not enough mental health funding, let the cops handle it. … Here in Dallas we got a loose dog problem; let’s have the cops chase loose dogs. Schools fail, let’s give it to the cops. … That’s too much to ask. Policing was never meant to solve all those problems.” Over-reliance on police is preventing us from imagining and investing in other public safety tools — ones that could revitalize the struggling neighborhoods that experience the most crime. We should think about public safety the way we think about public health. No one would suggest that hospitals alone can keep a population healthy, no matter how well run they might be. A healthy community needs neighborhood clinics, health education, parks, environments free of toxins, government policies that protect the public during health emergencies, and so much more. Health isn’t just about hospitals; safety isn’t just about police. Virus statistics: in the US we have 29.8M confirmed cases. We know that the true number is probably close to 89.4M. We have 541,000 confirmed deaths. In Michigan we have a 7 day average of just over 3,000 new cases a day, bringing us to 619,000 confirmed cases. The true number is probably 1,857,000. Confirmed deaths are at 16,897. The case numbers are increasing sharply again here in Michigan. This is a 4th surge and FB is full of notices and warnings from the Health Department. Here’s what’s happening overseas: New York Times It is officially spring, but a season typically defined by renewal feels more like a season of worry. Coronavirus cases — significantly down since the U.S. peak in January — have plateaued this month at �about 55,000 new infections a day, a level public health officials say is still too high. But some governors are already starting to relax restrictions. “History has shown us that when you have that plateauing, that’s usually the forerunner of another surge — we’ve actually seen that in the European Union,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, adding, “the more people get vaccinated, the less likelihood that there is going to be a surge.” Large parts of France, above in Paris, as well as Italy, Poland and other regions are back in lockdown as they try to stop a third wave. The latest outbreaks are a stark reminder that not enough people have been inoculated to blunt the impact of a rush of new infections. Only about 13 percent of Europeans have received a first dose, compared with 23 percent in the U.S. and 40 percent in Britain. The slow rollout in Europe can be explained by a cascade of small decisions that have led to increasingly long delays. Remember, after April 5, everyone 16+ is eligible to be vaccinated and they are working on safe vaccinations for 6 months old to 15 years old. So Mongolia, day 7.We were still in the Orkhon Valley but on this day we did a long day trip to Tövkhön Monastery. It was first established in 1648 by the 14-year-old Zanabazar, the first Jebtsundamba Khutuktu and spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhism for the Khalkha in Outer Mongolia. He determined that the location on the Shireet Ulaan Uul mountain overlooking a hill at 2,600 meters above sea-level was an auspicious location. Wikipedia �We drove across endless grassy steppes past nomad families living in their ger camps with their animals grazing all around. Each family has up to 1500 animals: goats, sheep, cattle. dzos and horses. It was a rough 3 hour drive. �We met a wild horse catcher along the way, dresssed in traditional clothing. There are still many wild horses in Mongolia. He catches horses and sells them to the nomads. �Craig rode a horse up to the monastery. These are the same ponies Mongols used in ancient times to expand their huge empire. (Remember the Mongol Horde? They rode fast while firing arrows back over their shoulders. They were terrifying). It was up a muddy trail, and the horse flies were terrible. The small, sturdy horse made Craig feel too big. ��The monastery was spread out all across the top of the mountain. �There are many sacred stations – similar to Catholic Stations of the Cross. Some stations �require climbing up steep cliffs. And then it was a rough 3 hour drive back to our ger camp – altogether about a 10 hour day. And yes, there is still more Mongolia tomorrow Lastly, Oliver. ��� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-21_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-375 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-21 Title A name given to the resource Day 375 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/abcb01f04d83f6a716ef633b036f5e9e.pdf 33414345532d9eb497c5f22df8f4491d PDF Text Text Day 374. Saturday March 20. by windoworks Yesterday the inspector came back and put the radon monitor back in our basement for the weekend. Hopefully it will register less than 4 which is the cutoff point for the EPA. I am very tired of miscellaneous people wandering through what is still my house, during a pandemic. Speaking of that, yesterday we received official notification of the time and place for the closing on the house and the dispersion of funds. Its 3pm on Monday April 5. After that we rent the house until we leave in early July. On a cheerful note, various Spring bulbs that Craig planted in the new meadow area in the back garden are pushing their leaves through the soil. The Hellebore (Winter Rose) flowers are also appearing. This weekend might be warm enough to sit on the front porch. But in news from far across the world: CNN: Australia's east coast was smashed by heavy rains on Saturday, sparking dangerous flash flooding that forced the evacuation of multiple regions as the fast-moving waters unmoored houses, engulfed roads, stranded towns and cut power lines. In Sydney, the country's biggest city, authorities pleaded for people to stay at home as a major dam overflowed and a mini-tornado tore through a western suburb. Most of the coast in the state of New South Wales (NSW), which is home to about a third of Australia's 25 million people, has already seen March rainfall records broken and authorities warned the downpour was likely to continue for several days. "I hate to say this again to all our citizens of the state, but it's not going to be an easy week for us," NSW �Premier Gladys Berejiklian told a televised briefing. "The rain may not stop till Thursday or Friday." Officials had issued nine evacuation orders for about 15 areas by Saturday afternoon. Television footage showed increasing damage across the state, with water engulfing houses up to the windows, people kayaking through the streets, and damaged roads. One video showed an entire house being swept away. Local media reported that the house owners had managed to evacuate. Warragamba Dam, a major water supply for Sydney, began overflowing on Saturday afternoon. Officials warned that the overflow would quickly add to swollen rivers, leading to flash flooding. A mini-tornado ripped through a suburb in the west of the city, causing damage to more than 30 homes, knocking down trees and cutting power, emergency services said. People were urged to stay at home and avoid any non-essential trips, with officials lambasting those who had needed help after venturing out into the stormy weather. Emergency crews responded to about 4,000 calls for help over the past two days, including 500 direct flood rescues, a level NSW Emergency Services Minister David Elliott said was "just completely unacceptable." The message is clear: do not walk through or drive through floodwaters, do not drive over water that is covering a road," Elliott said. Today the heavy rain and wind is predicted to move inland to the Australian Capital Territory and Canberra, where Craig’s mother, his sister and family, all live. The rain has been particularly heavy in the Blue Mountains - our proposed future home. It has been so heavy we would have been marooned up there for at least one or two days. �Virus news: Many of our friends are fully vaccinated and many younger friends and neighbors have vaccination appointments lined up for April. The CDC has said that vaccinated people may meet one other unvaccinated family inside. The CDC didn’t say: rip off your masks and party hard in small, enclosed, loud and hot bars where you have to shout to be heard over the music. But many people heard a much different message than the one the CDC announced. So lets backtrack. You remember when you get your annual flu shot, the person administering it reminds you that this shot may not stop you from getting the flu? And remember how you nod and say okay and fervently hope that you don’t succumb to the flu this year? But even if you do, you know that the flu shot you received will make the virus load so much less than if you �hadn’t been vaccinated. You see where I’m going with this? That’s right. If you are fully vaccinated but you refuse to wear a mask and you begin socializing with large groups of unvaccinated and unmasked people in small confined spaces - you will probably catch COVID-19 variant B117. But because you are fully vaccinated you will probably have a very mild case. Can you then transmit the virus to someone else when you are sick? I’m fairly sure that answer is yes. So, fully vaccinated doesn’t mean pandemic over. Masking, distancing and hand washing are here to stay for now. And here’s a really big new development: The New Normal: Parents are excited to enroll their kids in a children's trial of the Moderna vaccine. Dr. Steve Plimpton, the principal investigator for the trial in Phoenix, says that vaccinating children is an important step toward achieving herd immunity. Children between six months and 12 years of age are participating in the Moderna trial. Pfizer is currently testing its vaccine on 12 to 15-year-olds. Have you been wondering how the 2020 Japanese Olympic Games could be safely held this year? Which the Japanese Olympic committee have been insisting will happen? Here’s how: Washington Post Tokyo Olympics organizers ban spectators from outside Japan in pandemic-control measure. The International Olympic Committee says vaccinations, while encouraged, are not mandatory for athletes and members of national teams. The Games were postponed for a year because of the pandemic and are scheduled to begin in July. Well I guess we’ll all watch it on TV. However, for the second year in a row, the North Sea Jazz Festival is canceled. In New South Wales, Australia, the annual Merimbula Jazz Festival, which Benjamin’s Big Band played at for some years and Rhythm Syndicate, Craig’s sisters choir sang at annually, has been canceled also for the second year in a row. But I see that Disneyland in Los Angeles is intending to reopen in April. Remember how the Venetian Senate established a new church in Venice after the plague? Il Redentore was built as a votive church in thanksgiving for deliverance from a major outbreak of the plague that decimated Venice between 1575 and 1576, in which some 46,000 people (25–30% of the population) died. Wikipedia I’m not entirely sure the Festival of the Redentore was held last year or if it will be held this year. I wonder if they’ll build a new church after this pandemic is over. When I think back, I realize that many familiar festivals and events were canceled last year, and many of them have had to radically rethink the staging of their event. Oh and I think the Iditarod was completely overhauled and didn’t end in Nome this year. Here in the US, following the Atlanta shootings: The New Normal: President Biden's and Vice President Kamala Harris’ tour across the country has taken a somber tone after eight people, including six Asian women, were killed in Atlanta on Tuesday. The two �have been on a victory lap to promote the passage of the latest coronavirus relief bill, but now will meet with state lawmakers and community leaders in the Georgia's capital to discuss the shootings. Biden has ordered that all U.S. flags on federal buildings be lowered to half-staff through Monday to honor the victims. Meanwhile, Asian American members of Congress are seeking federal action in response to the surge in anti-Asian attacks during the pandemic. The United States has a history of using public health concerns to camouflage racism and xenophobia. There are a lot of unknowns about the Atlanta mass shooting suspect’s motive, but the violence came amidst a wave of anti-Asian attacks this year by racists who blame Asians for the pandemic, leaving communities frightened and frustrated. In the Chinatown neighborhood of Oakland, Calif., the community is debating how to best keep themselves safe after a spate of violence against its senior residents. Some say that policing is necessary and makes them feel safe , while others argue that the community should focus on addressing poverty and other issues that cause crime. The divide is largely generational, with younger people supporting the latter argument. Now for Mongolia and Day 6: Craig took a selfie by the Orkhon River in Central Mongolia. Look at the rain!The Orkhon �Valley was the sacred heartland for all of the great empires of the Steppe, including the Turks and the Mongols. Horses grazing in front of our ger camp in the Orkhon valley. �This is Erdene Zuu, the oldest Buddhist monastery in Mongolia. Abtai Sain Khan, ruler of the Khalkha Mongols and grandfather of Zanabazar, the first Jebtsundamba Khutuktu, ordered construction of the Erdene Zuu monastery in 1585 after his meeting with the 3rd Dalai Lama and the declaration of Tibetan Buddhism as the state religion of Mongolia. Wikipedia. It was built on the site of the Mongol capital of Karakoram using stones from that ruined capital. It is still an active monastery complex. Inside the walls there are many monasteries and lodgings for monks but it is a shadow of its original size. �One of the active monasteries inside the walls of Erdene Zuu. Yes there is more Mongolian madness tomorrow. Yesterday I couldn’t post the video of Oliver singing and dancing on the coffee table but Zoe posted it in the comments under my post. Its on Facebook on my page, if you’re interested. Oliver: �Licking green and yellow uncooked rice off his fingers? �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-03-20_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-374 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-03-20 Title A name given to the resource Day 374 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cc902dc392f39df636d88e81de435269.MP4 b4f853f83530208d3e29284f87a748a9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/28d144a8139424b34d1f5cdd542fd770.pdf 4f8cab734c7ab9849b70feb91a3345ec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Civilian: Bruni Johnson Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Sarah Schneider and Grace Balog Interviewer: We’re talking today with Bruni Johnson of Palatine, Illinois and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Now, Bruni is a civilian who lived in Germany during and after World War Two so we’re recording that side of the story rather than a veteran’s story today. Okay, start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born? Civilian: I was born April 17th, 1937 in Berlin. Interviewer: Okay, and what was your family doing for a living in those days? Civilian: That is a little bit of a long story. Can I tell you that? Interviewer: Sure. Civilian: Actually, my father used to own a toy and doll factory in a southern part of Thueringen. He is an artist. Interviewer: And Thueringen is a province in Germany? (00:00:55) Civilian: Yes, and Thueringen, or Thuringia, is, you know, in the middle of Germany. It has a beautiful black forest. And my father’s business was declining naturally because people didn’t have money and they spend their money more on food than anything else. However, he did get a big order from the United States. He did make a very huge shipment to the United States. That was, I can’t tell you exactly the time, but it must have been around 1932, 1933. And because we �had then our leader, Führer Hitler, he refused to pay to the United States government money that the United States government claimed we owed them for the first World War. I don’t know the story, I can’t tell you the facts, but that is what I know. And hence there was a president during that time, he felt that the United States people, or businesspeople, did not have to pay the bills. That was a death shock for my father; he lost his business. He had to then move to Berlin and became, out of necessity because nobody was interested in art, he created art from sugar. In other words, he made very elaborate, beautiful creations from flowers and whatever you can think of made out of sugar, marzipan, and chocolate. That somehow left his job at a very famous entertainment and restaurant, called Wintergarten, in the middle of Berlin. And he became the general manager for a short while and then he became very famous for his creations so he was asked to teach that in a school, a vocational school or college. And that’s what he did and actually he stayed with that job until he died. He was only 74 years old when he died. And so, they lived in Berlin, but they had a very meager existence. Actually, at that time they lived in an apartment. And that apartment eventually became part of the Russian occupation, but we should go one step at a time. (00:03:50) Interviewer: Right, you should. Okay, now how many children were in your family? Civilian: We had three altogether. My sister, she was born in 1928 in a town called Coburg which is adjacent to the town where my parents came from because my parents had a big villa there and my father was doing well in those days. Then after they moved to Berlin, my brother was born 1933 in Berlin. And I was then born four years later. (00:04:30) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now if your father—you mentioned he had an unusual sort of job by the end but—and he was able to do that through the time of the war? �Civilian: Yes, he did that pretty much during the war. But then of course after the war there was nothing. And he then, by force of nature because of his creativity, had to learn how to make cakes and that helped us to survive. He got work then as a baker. He wasn’t really a baker, but we did anything we could. Interviewer: But that’s what he did. Alright, now what kinds of—now you’re still a very young girl when the war happens—what can you tell us about what you remember from that? Particularly— (00:05:24) Civilian: There is one memory that I have actually in there, written. My first memory was a very happy one. My father was enlisted in the Army for a short while, although he was not well. And I remember him coming home and I must have been two years old and people say you can’t remember that, yes, I do remember when he came home. And it must have been in 1939, 1940— no later, because he was in—already left the army. And I remember he took me to a fair and it was a very happy moment for me to see my father in a uniform, coming home, taking me to this fair, buying me candies and a balloon, or something like that. And that’s the first thing that I remember. Then, everything is a veil and I can’t remember too much about my childhood in Berlin during that time. But I know that my mother used to take me always to Thueringen, or Thuringia, to the town where she came from and we stayed with my grandmother. And eventually she—in the beginning she used to take me back home because she had to take care of my sister and my brother. But then eventually they left me there and I stayed with—first with my grandmother and after she died and the house went into the hands of one of the older brothers, I stayed with an aunt further down the hill where the house was from my grandparents. And that is the time I remember the most. My sister meanwhile—I have to say that something that is very important to me—my family was always very independent, so my sister was very independent. �We were not joiners, we didn’t join the boy scouts, girl scouts, or whatever. And my sister refused to join the youth movement, the youth’s girl’s movement, the BDM. Interviewer: So, the Hitler Youth. Yep. (00:07:38) Civilian: However, she eventually was forced to go to a—what they called a labor camp. That’s not a labor camp prison type, that is where they used to send young women to learn how to cook and sew and become good German housewives. And my brother was by then, which—I remember he was born in 1933—he was in high school. And in—before, two years before the end of the war, 1943, the whole entire high school was evacuated and sent to an island in the Baltic Sea. And they had to stay there and it was actually very meager. But I remember visiting him with my mother and I remember that island, that’s all I remember about that. That school— eventually, two months—I think it was in February 1945, the school was again shipped to Denmark as refugees. But that refugee camp turned out to be a prison for them for three years. And that town is called Oksbol, it’s a very famous story. And he lived there. And I—actually, I was just reading the letters he sent from there. It’s sort of a bit of a sad story. And we had no idea where he was or whatever happened to him until the Red Cross sent us a letter and said yes, they are in Oksbol in that camp. The whole school. There were I think 250 students there. (00:09:27) Interviewer: Okay, because in February of 1945, Denmark would still have been under Nazi control. Civilian: Yes, it was. Yes, it was and there’s a newspaper article about that—that the German occupational forces were not informed that there were refugees in Denmark. I can give you that newspaper article because I just happened to read it. Interviewer: So, they didn’t…So, German refugees are being sent to Denmark and the German authorities in Denmark didn’t know they were there? �Civilian: No, they didn’t know that apparently. Interviewer: Okay. (00:10:00) Civilian: It’s a very interesting story. I have that stuff in the front room. So, that …well that, you know. Interviewer: But then once the Germans surrendered, then the Danes just kept them interned essentially for some time after that? Civilian: Well, that—you know, that became the end of the war in 1945. I mean, that didn’t really happen very long. I don’t even think they had time to bother. The soldiers were tired. There was nothing much left in the army. People were just scattered all over the place. I think it was just…everything was in shambles already. But nobody wanted to admit that, especially not the Nazis and the whatever. Interviewer: Alright, now to go back to your story. So, you spent a good part of the wartime on the family property? (00:10:49) Civilian: Yes, and I—it was a very interesting time. I was very happy although I was very lonely. I missed my parents an awful lot. And we had to…I was very happy living with my aunt. She had a beautiful big yard with a lot of apple trees, orchard, and beautiful flowers. Of course, they were taller than I was because I was very little. But as small as I was, I do remember I had to help my extended family. They were farmers. We had to work on a field. I had to dig up potatoes. Child labor they call it. I enjoyed it. And picking up corns, helping with the hay, and we had to collect herbs. Or herbs. And there were a special kind of herbs that they made tea out of for the soldiers on the front. We also had to pull out something—it wasn’t cotton because I don’t think we had that. I don’t know what we pulled out to make cotton…And I had to use my little fingers and we did that. And actually, I don’t remember being unhappy about doing any of �that work and we had to work hard. For that recompense, we got a huge slice of bread with butter on it and in the beginning, still a cup of milk and that was …we were in heaven. I was quite happy and content there. I remember my time in that town always in sunshine. But it wasn’t always sunny, it was raining but my memory doesn’t go that far. And I have that all written down actually. There is something in my personality that prevents me from remembering really bad moments. And I think that is due to my…the incredible, wonderful nature of my parents. They made us feel that it’s just the way it is. They did not make us feel that we should feel sorry there is a war. They did not make us feel that we are hungry and starving and freezing to death in Berlin. In—when I was living in the country, I always had some food and that was very nice. What do I have…What else could I…? (00:13:25) Interviewer: Well I guess when you were living with your aunt, did your aunt have any children or were you the only child there? Civilian: No, my aunt had three children, but they were not staying at that house. Only one cousin, an older cousin. And he was actually responsible because nobody really talked to me and I learned to speak very late in life at that time. But what he did, he taught me how to read and I wasn’t even in school. And they had an attic and I could sit in that attic and I could read some of the books, I mean as much as I could read, and I thought it was absolutely wonderful. It was rather primitive, the house. They built it in the last minute because my uncle used to be the gas master. They had a gas station and when that was closed, he lost his job during the war. And he built that house and it had sort of a little addition in the back that was a stable for a goat and there was also the outdoor toilet. And something that I remembered about that toilet, it was always cold in there in the winter, it was freezing. But when I was allowed to go back to East Germany to visit twenty-five or so years after the war ended, I could have sworn the same flies were still �humming in that toilet. It was the weirdest thing. And my aunt’s goat was a life saver because she used to make—she had a centrifuge—and she would make goat butter out of it and I just love goat butter for the rest of my life. And yes, we had…I had a good time. I had a little boyfriend. Actually, his mother lived up on top of the hill in that house that my uncle had taken over. And he had a very bad alcoholic stepfather who used to beat his mother. And he and I used to sit in my aunt’s garden at night and pray to the moon, we didn’t know much about God, and prayed. We prayed that his father would stop hitting his mother and I prayed that my mother would come back. I was so lonely. So basically, that’s my story. And then, I was sent back to Berlin. (00:16:00) Interviewer: Now, you had told me when we—before we did the interview, you told me a little bit about what was going on on that estate, on that property, what your uncle was doing. Civilian: Yes, I’m glad you bring that up because when my uncle took over that particular estate you can call it, it was called Bachelors, you know, a little mountain castle. And it was a beautiful big house. My Grandmother had 12 children and he was I think the third oldest or something like that and he was an engineer, he was a very smart man. And he used that estate to manufacture parts for Hitler. I didn’t know then what it was. I was under the impression always as a child that they made some sort of electronic parts. And the workers that worked there were all forced laborers. I believe they were Russian, Ukrainian, and Polish. I only talked to one of the ladies, her name was Olga, because she was Polish and she spoke some German. And she also showed me where these forced laborers had to live. Underneath the building was the stable and they had to all sleep in that stable and they were fed out of the dog dishes. But they were fed. How well? I don’t know. But I know she was always very, very sad and upset. That’s the most I can �remember. Much, much later—actually this year, I found out that there apparently was something that was manufactured is very secretive and nobody could find out what it was. I have no idea what it was. (00:17:41) Interviewer: Alright. And so then, when did you leave that area? Civilian: Yeah, I was in…back in the beginning of 1945. I do not remember when. I only remember that I was sitting on a train by myself and the train track was…the train was supposed to take me back to Berlin but it made a detour because the rail ties, you know the rail tracks, were all bombed. And at one point, the train had to stop and couldn’t continue. And I remember sitting outside, not knowing what to do, and some...somebody—some family came up to me and gave me a sandwich and they eventually took me into their home. I don’t know how long I was with them. And I stayed with them and I don’t remember much at all about that time, but I remember coming back to Berlin not speaking German. I spoke another language. I was actually…I started school in Thueringen, you know, in that part where I lived. And I was 6 years old in 1943. And we started school with those old little slate boards that you had and a, you know, a slate pen. But it lasted only about 4 weeks because then we lost our teacher. I think he was either drafter or whatever happened to them. And I didn’t have any schooling until I got back to Berlin. And then even later, much later, because we didn’t have a school in Berlin. And I arrived in Berlin. I don’t remember how, but I got back. I do remember the bombing and it was horrendous. You were constantly afraid. You constantly heard the alarm going. You saw the…you heard the hissing of the bombs. You saw what they called Christmas trees, that was phosphorous bombs that they sent down. We had to wear gas masks in the basement. I always thought I was going to suffocate with that stuff. You know, it was just a gas mask that they put on your face and you couldn’t breathe. And I to this day, my children could never understand it, I �cannot go to a fireworks. And I cannot listen to the fireworks and I cannot watch them. It’s a very scary thing that happens in your life. Even every Tuesday, the alarm goes off in our town. It frightens me because I think of the alarm stages that we had in Berlin. Interviewer: The air raid alarms, yep. (00:20:33) Civilian: And if you were on the street, you had to run and try and find a bunker or something like that. Sometimes you were left in the street and somehow miraculously you survived. And right and left, the buildings were burning and falling apart. Not in my area so much, because I was in the northern part of Berlin. Only when we went downtown to visit my father where he worked and visit my aunt who lived in the middle of—or in the city center, actually. And there was not much transportation, so you had to walk, and you’d walk for hours and we always walked. I remember even in East Germany when my mother came, food was scarce during the war and after the war. We used to walk like 2-3 hours to some mountain area where there was a forest and we used to collect blueberries. And after about a whole day of collecting blueberries, you’d have maybe a little bucket full of blueberries and you came home and they put buttermilk in it and then we ate it with boiled potatoes or something like that. Interviewer: Alright. Now you had mentioned to me before we started the interview that during one of these bombing raids, I guess the house pretty much collapsed on you? (00:21:44) Civilian: Yes, that was—that happened. That must have happened when I was—I don’t remember exactly when it happened but it must have happened before or after I came back, maybe I was home at that time for a short visit. Interviewer: So, you might have been visiting, so it might have been earlier in the war? �Civilian: Yes, and I don’t remember the year. I could have asked that gentleman that was 90 years old that told me about it. A bomb went down actually not adjacent, my parents lived in an apartment building and those have blocks. And there was a building next to our building and then there came a second building. That one was bombed and the explosion made the wall collapse that we were sitting next to, my father, my mother, and I, and we were buried. And I guess that’s where I developed allergies against dust because we lived—we stayed there three days almost because nobody knew we were buried. Nobody looked for us. My sister was in that so to speak labor camp and my brother was in Denmark, wherever. We didn’t know where he was then at that time. And…Oh no, maybe he was on the island. I do remember that. Anyways, so then they finally dug us out and unfortunately the explosion caused… I had hearing loss and nobody knew and nobody checked it. And all my life long, especially as a child, I was always told, “Oh, you don’t concentrate well” and I was—I felt stupid, dumb. I learned then, eventually, to stare at people and I concentrated very hard. I was always sitting in the front row because I couldn’t hear in the back of my classroom and nobody figured it out. I didn’t find it out until I came to the United States and went to a hearing specialist and he said, “Oh, you have had that since childhood.” Interviewer: Okay. Thank you, yeah. Okay. Do you remember being rescued from the basement or do you just know that it happened? (00:23:58) Civilian: I don’t remember that. That is the funniest thing. I don’t remember that. I only know that eventually they dug us out and life continued as usual. It was just the way it was. You lived in a war. You accepted that as a child, probably my parents felt different about it but they didn’t show it to us. They made us feel good, they were very… my mother was an extremely cheerful person. My father was very witty. And they always tried to make us feel it was a normal thing. �It’s just the way it is. And that’s why I don’t remember. Like I said, a lot of things I totally block out. Interviewer: Now, after that bombing, did your family go to a different apartment? Or just…? (00:24:42) Civilian: No, we stayed in it. It was only the basement wall that collapsed. Interviewer: Oh, okay. Civilian: And that wall happened to be actually right underneath our apartment. We lived on the first floor. How our apartment did not collapse, I have no idea. It’s a miracle to me yet. But you know when you were younger, even when I was a teenager, and dad and I went back it never occurred to me to ask—to ask anybody what happened. It was just something that, just like when I was in high school, we had history lessons until 1928 and then it stopped. You didn’t ask questions. Now, I can tell you the story much, much later when I really found out what Germany actually did. We heard about concentration camps. I remember my brother and I we used to joke as kids “Oh, if you don’t do this, I’ll put you in a concentration camp.” But we had no idea what happened in those concentration camps. I’m sure a lot of people did. But we didn’t. Interviewer: Well, you were very young at that time. Civilian: Yes, I was very young and maybe my parents knew, maybe they don’t. I don’t know. It never occurred to me to ask. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so during the war you’re kind of moved back and forth a little bit between the country and Berlin. But by early ’45, you’re back in Berlin and now you stay there until the end of the war? Civilian: Yes. (00:26:11) �Interviewer: Okay, are there any other incidents or memories or things that happened before the Russians came in that you want to bring into the story here? Civilian: Yes, I remember one incident very clearly that was shortly before the final end and the Russians were already on the outskirts of Berlin. And a young Hitler Youth came into the basement—we were sitting in the basement—and he told those people, the men, old men, sick men, old men, to come with shovels and forks, anything they could find, and go to about five minute, ten minute walk from our house there was an S-Bahn, an L station. There was a bridge and they were supposed to defend that bridge. And shortly thereafter my father comes back and he said, “We threw our shovels down. We are not going to fight with forks and shovels against the Russian tanks.” And then they came home and that was then the end. Well, before that, I only remember on April 17th it was my birthday. And it was a sunny day. My aunt came from the center of the town with my cousin and she brought me a beautiful pink necklace and we were actually happy and had some little cake or whatever we had and it was a nice day. And then a couple days, three, four days later it must have been the 21st. I don’t remember. That’s when the Russians marched in. That incident with the old men and the forks and shovels happened. And like I said, my sister wasn’t there, she was still in the labor camp. My brother was where? We don’t know. And my father and my mother and I, we were standing in front of the house watching what was happening. We all knew the war was over, for some reason. And a Russian truck stopped in front of the house and Russian soldiers came out with machine guns and they took us to our apartment and we had to line the wall and we thought they were going to shoot us. I never will forget that feeling. And…but they didn’t. But we were—we were so petrified and scared. I thought I was going to die. And shortly thereafter, another truck comes and they unloaded all the wounded Russian soldiers and they brought them into our apartment, used the �whole apartment to put the injured people there. And I remember my—our bedroom was emptied out…Wait a minute…No, that was—our bedroom was in the front and the back was the family room and I—we had a beautiful black, shiny piano there. And they put their spiritous cookers there and to make the instruments and they opened—took the dining room table and operated on the Russians. And actually, I had to watch them cut off legs and stuff for some reason. I don’t know why I was there. It was a very scary experience. And then they used our curtains, drapes, and rolled the dead bodies in them and buried them in the back yard. My mother again was incredibly courageous because those Russians that came were very poor little souls. They had no shoes on. Don’t forget they were marching. They had only rags wrapped around their feet. They didn’t know what a toilet was. They used the bathtub and then they used the toilet to wash themselves. So, my mother went in there and showed them what to do and dumped them on the toilet and took all of the dirt out of the bathtub and showed them what that was for. And that was the only thing I remember about that. It was a horrible time. And we had to live then in the basement and it was sort of provisionally repaired down there and what my parents and I felt sort of very sad about was that none of the neighbors offered us to stay in their apartments. That’s the only thing I remember. (00:30:58) Interviewer: So, the other people were all basically left alone? I mean, now— Civilian: Basically, the Russians…Yes, it was a crucial experience to have that hospital there. But in a way it saved our life. We were protected from rape. We were given food. They had what they called a goulash burner outside on the street. We got even some meat. That was usually horse meat. And they basically protected us. There was one—they had a general and I believe he was a Russian Jew because he spoke some German. He was a very elegant man and he saw the newspaper on the table and it was called the Voelkischer Beobachter, The People’s Observer, the �only paper they had and said, “Ah that paper.” And I remember that one so clearly. Eventually I think they left. What else do I remember about them…There was an incident when we, and this too is in Thueringen, a lot of women were raped. And a lot of them came then to the Russians and they helped them. They repaired them, they helped them. [she explained off camera that the “help” was in the form of performing abortions for the women and girls who had been raped by the Russians] Interviewer: Okay, so they went to the hospital? (00:32:21) Civilian: Yes, they came to the hospital. But the whole neighborhood then eventually wound up in our apartment you know for some medical service and walked away with all the dishes. You know, this is something very strange. Interviewer: So, your neighbors robbed you instead of the Russians? Civilian: The Russians did not take anything away. My parents lost all of their possessions because after my father was bankrupt and they had to give up their villa in Coburg, they had a— what do you call it…you know, from a farm…What do you call that—no. Where you store things on a farm, what do you call that? Stable? Interviewer: Yeah. Civilian: Okay, they used a stable in their town and they stored all of their valuables there. And I don’t know how close the American armies were to the concentration camps, but basically all of our possessions probably wound up on the bottom Ellison Bay. I mean not Ellison Bay, the island by, what is it called? The island by New York … Interviewer: Oh, Ellis Island. (00:33:31) Civilian: Yeah, that’s right. We don’t know it, but they were the only ones that actually robbed us blind. And then after the Russians left, they did not take anything away. Came the French. But �the French, they knew how to find whatever we had hidden in the piano. That was a piece of cloth for a winter cold and a jar of pickled rabbit because we used to have rabbits in the backyard to feed us you know and that’s about it. My—we all had to try and survive. We raised chicken in our apartment and whatever we did. Interviewer: Okay, now you had before—you have got some material that you had written down. Have we covered what you had in there? Or…? (00:34:19) Civilian: Yes, I think pretty much everything. I can only maybe read to you the beginning because I tried to put things together. “It is almost too late to try to remember my childhood. I should have taken the time to keep a diary of sorts, but never felt my life was worth remembering. Yes, I have some cherished memories, but much of my childhood in Berlin is hidden behind a grey veil. It appears that I remember mostly happy moments in my life in Germany albeit I don’t think there were that many. But I remember most as a small child is my time in Schalkau, that is that small town in Thuringia, where my mother was born and raised and married my father. And this memory is quite blissful, content, and was much sunshine even rainy days. But I only remember the rainy days sitting in my aunt’s, Tante Paula or Aunt Paula’s, small attic, reading. Feeling safe and dry and hearing the rain tapping on the roof. It never sounded threatening to me. Oh, I had some sad moments in Schalkau because I was so immensely lonely without my parents, who stayed in Berlin with my sister and brother and then they were gone. And they had to endure the constant bombing raids, but my mother was commuting back and forth and was often in Schalkau, especially when my Grandmother, my Grossmutter, was still living. The rest of memory is being hungry, being cold: very, very cold all the time. I remember the sound of the alarm, the noise of the airplanes, the hissing of the bombs, the phosphorus socalled Christmas trees, the explosions, the gas masks that made you feel like you’re suffocating, �and again the hunger, fear, running for cover, trying to find a bunker if on the road. To this day I can’t tolerate the sound and even to look at a fireworks.” Alright, that’s about basically it. (00:36:26) Interviewer: Alright. Now, let’s go to the point—we’ve gotten now to the end of the war. So, you’re—the place where you were living was in the part of Berlin that became the French zone? Civilian: Yeah, it became the French sector. Interviewer: So, you’re in West Berlin at that point? Civilian: Yeah. Well, it was… Interviewer: What would become West Berlin, there was not a wall yet. Civilian: It would eventually, you know they made it then the Russian part and then the western part. And the western part was the French, British, and American sector. And unfortunately, we were in the French sector. They were okay to us, but they didn’t really…we didn’t—we never benefitted from the air lift or anything like that because they didn’t feed us very well. Interviewer: Alright. Yeah. So, let’s kind of—let’s try to follow that a little bit. Civilian: And then actually the hunger and the fear and the freezing came after the war, worse than before. (00:37:13) Interviewer: I was going to ask that. Okay, so you’re—when they—course when the war ends, it’s sort of late spring and so the weather isn’t too cold for a while. You have summer months coming, but there’s not a lot of food… Civilian: Nope. Interviewer: …and the French come in and they don’t help. �Civilian: Well we went—we would then leave our home and go into the outside areas of Berlin and try to visit farmers. It meant if there was a train, we took a train. Most of the time we had to walk for hours and hours and we exchanged some whatever valuables against maybe some rotten cabbage and some potatoes. That basically was all the food you had. There wasn’t very much. Eventually, we got some bread and we ate our bread usually with water and then if you had sugar, you’d put a little sugar on top of it. It basically was the entire food we had for a long, long, long time. And when you boiled the potatoes, because they were rotten, you couldn’t peel them. The peel was, you know, very thinly peeled off. We collected that because once a week a farmer came with a horse drawn wagon and he had little bundles of wood because we had no heat and we couldn’t have a fire, we couldn’t cook, we had nothing, and he would exchange those poor little potato peels against a little bundle of wood. And then I remember that he always had a little bell and he said, “Brennholz fuer Kartoffelschalen,” burning wood for potato peels. That was the most exciting moment always and then we had a little bit of firewood, you know, that was…long time, but then came an extreme severe winter after that and—Oh yes! Now, I remember because I know there was something. After the Russians settled, the Americans settled and everything, I don’t remember exactly when it happened, but it was still summer time. I don’t know if it was in 1945. Possibly, because the American army established in the southern part of Berlin and there was a command officer—office—in a place called Mexikoplatz, Mexiko so square. And they needed a baker. And one day I was alone at home. The doorbell rings and again I see people in uniforms—it must have been the same year, ’45—and I was scared to hell and I pushed the door closed and I was so scared and they didn’t let me close the door and then somehow my mother appeared from somewhere. They were Americans. They wanted my father. They had heard of him because he was known through his teaching and stuff like that and he had to go with them �and work there. And he had to also take a little room down there because we had no transportation and once a week my mother would take a men’s bicycle and put me on front of that and ride the bicycle through Berlin for three or four hours and then we could visit my father and then we used to go through the…Americans were always a little bit used to spoiling things. They used to throw a lot of food out that we, you know, gathered from their garbage and then ate it, you know. It was helpful. It was very helpful to eat, you know, some old can of soup or whatever that was. (00:40:54) Interviewer: Okay. Now, was your father paid? Could he do anything to help you then? Civilian: I don’t know if he was paid money but I know he used to get bread and some food and bring it home. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: I don’t know. But it did help us survive. I am sure they must have paid him something but I—I couldn’t tell you that for sure. Interviewer: Alright. Civilian: Yeah, I do remember that after the war, one of the incidents was that we got a care package for Christmas. It was Christmastime. And I had my doll kitchen sitting in our living room. That was the only present you used to get for Christmas, was build up the doll kitchen. And a care package came and there were—was a little food in it. I believe it was a family from Texas. And four candies. And we were four at that time: my mother, father, my sister, and I. We each got a candy. And I remember taking my candy every night, I unwrapped it, sucked on it, and put it back and it lasted for a whole week. It was—it was wonderful. And then of course, they started sending in food and that was the airlift then. And yes, it was so interesting because we didn’t—we had no idea what sweet potatoes were. They were dried squares of—we thought it �was carrots. And we tried to eat it and it broke our teeth up because we had poor dental treatment. We had no treatment, period. And until we learned that we had to soak the stuff and cook it, and stuff like that, you know. We didn’t benefit too much from the airlift. Like I said, that stayed mainly in the southern part, the American sector and the British sector. The French sector didn’t get too much food there. But that’s why I think my father’s occupation actually helped us then. I don’t remember how long he worked for the American Army and I don’t remember what he did afterwards but he always worked. And somehow, it sustained us and we could get food. (00:43:06) Interviewer: At what point did he start becoming a baker? Had that happened during the war? Or was that afterward? Civilian: It must have happened…I don’t—that’s what I would like to find out or wanted to find out now when I was in Germany. When did he learn that? For—when he was working, I think, it must have still been in the Wintergarten, that restaurant. He also worked for a famous restaurant, Kempinski. And he was also there the manager for the food section there. And somehow, he along the way must have learned how to make cakes. And then he also worked for another very famous bakery in Berlin then eventually. But he was also—he was never really getting much money. We just had a bare existence. And…But he taught all the way through when it started again. School for me started much, much later than normally. I think I started school really then when I was about 8 or 9. Because I was—our grammar school was bombed out and we started school then in a factory. And it was wonderful because you—they could heat this place and it was warm. And we had a wonderful teacher and she was very encouraging. And we also got food. So, when you went to school, that is what we used to look like. We had little—I just found these marks on the paper. We all went to school, more or less dressed or not. And we had little �buckets with us and we used to bring food home. And I remember the most horrendous food was always sauerkraut soup. And then some sort of a cheese soup. It was awful. Even though you were hungry, I didn’t like it. But I brought it home for my parents and we all shared it. (00:45:10) Interviewer: Okay. Now, at the time of the airlift, did you understand much of what was going on then? Or were you worried the Russians would come back or were you not really having a sense of that? Civilian: By that time, we felt very enclosed. We felt totally…Berlin was enclosed. Nothing could come in; nothing could go out. Unless you went to the eastern part. And you felt like you were suffocating. There was no—there was not a tree left in the streets. Everything was cut down. You would use your furniture to burn in the stove so you could heat a little bit. When the airlift started, I remember very late. They start the airlift at the airport Tempelhof. And there was another one in Gatow. And they built an airport near where I lived, near Tegel, which is a very famous airport now. Well actually, the only one in Berlin right now. And they started with I think I saw one or two airplanes arriving. And I had no shoes and we all were running to the airport which was a long way to walk. And I remember I was running on the gravel, hoping I would get a candy because we all heard the Americans were throwing out candy. Well, I didn’t get one candy. By the time they came to us, there was no candy left. So, we were so disappointed. We all treaded back home very sad. Oh, another thing I remember also because it just dawns on me what we did. We had no clothes, right? So, you wanted to go swimming so you took your old socks, you unraveled the wool, and we knitted swimming suits. Two tops swimming suits, to go swimming. And then when the summer was over, we unraveled the swimming suit and knitted socks out of it again. It was hilarious, you know. Because I remember �I had one blue swimming suit that was constantly going back and forth from sock to bathing suit. Yeah, that was about it. (00:47:18) Interviewer: Must have been—must take a while to do? Civilian: You learn to knit quite fast. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: You know? Interviewer: How long did conditions stay hard? I mean, you’re like… Civilian: A long time. Berlin was really, I think, one of those cities probably not as bombed as Dresden but because we were so cut off, it took a long, long time to recover everything. I remember grammar school was horrible. We were then going—we were taught in a burned-out building. And it was sort of like a little bit repaired. And then they had a barracks outside. And we had school there. My schooling was very poor, actually. I do remember a teacher there who was very strict but then at the end, I had a very, very good teacher because he encouraged me or made sure that I and another girl were allowed to go to a high school. We were already 14 at that time. We started high school much later than the rest of the people. We had to do everything in 4 to 5 years that other people achieved in 8 to 9 years of high school. And we had to work extremely hard. And since the school was still burned—the schools were all damaged. We had to share a school in a boys’ school. There used to be a boys’ school and a girls’ school next to each other. The girls’ school was damaged. And we were the first girls in a boys’ school that started there. But we shared with the girls’ school. So, one week we had classes from…I can’t— morning to noon or 1 o’clock. And then one week, we started in the afternoon. We always had to switch school times, which was quite exhausting because when you had school in the afternoon, you came home and you had to do your homework until midnight or whatever because there was �a lot of homework to do. And it was horrendous. And yet I tell you, my most of my educational background comes from that high school. I was extremely well-educated there. (00:49:53) Interviewer: Okay. And then, how long did you stay in Berlin? Civilian: Well, after I start—I left high school, I had several options. They had just opened a university, called Free University. And I applied there and also was accepted. And I had signed up for three subjects: Germanistic, Anglistik, and Romanistic—English, German, and French, which was ludicrous. And I had to—I started with German and then I wanted to switch to the English department. They told me they didn’t have a space for me. And I had to go to England. And in order to get to England, I needed a visa. And in order to get the visa, I had to accept a job as an au pair. A lot of young people did that. And I went to a town called Croydon and I was sort of an au pair/helper for the children. I did a little cleaning in the morning and in the afternoon, I could go to college there. And I did eventually pass my lower and my higher Cambridge certificate: proficiency of English. Interviewer: Okay. (00:51:15) Civilian: Yeah. That was it. And then, I went back. Interviewer: Do you remember what years you were in England? When was that? Civilian: I think it was around 1956-1957. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: And then I came back and I had to work in Berlin, I remember, but I don’t remember why. I was still signed up for the Free University but it didn’t work out so—Oh, they told me I should go to France first. My French was so poor. I really basically didn’t know any French at all because of the little bit we had in high school was not sufficient. So, I went to France basically on the same principle but it was supported by the university. And then I ultimately stayed there �for two years. In the beginning, I started at a place called Alliance Français and then I could switch over to the Sorbonne and study there and got my certificate in French there, my certificat en français. (00:52:13) Interviewer: Okay. Now, how did the people in England and France treat you? Civilian: That was interesting. I am glad you bring this up. Never questioning anything. Nobody talked about it. I told you history lessons ended in ’28. We knew something happened. We had a lot of people that came back from concentration camps and talked to us about it. But it would— really didn’t register. In England, people were very nice to me until the very end. I met somebody that she was very nasty to me. What never occurred to me is—I always felt boy, the whole world bombed us poor Germans. It never occurred to me that we Germans bombed London. And we bombed the whole world. And that was okay. Then I came back when I was in France, I lived happily ever after. I had a boyfriend. He was a French Jewish gentleman. And he explained to me what happened and what we did. And I was in shock. I can’t even tell you that. And I remember my parents visiting me in Paris and I asked them. And I said, “Didn’t you know?” And they said, “Yes, of course we knew but we didn’t talk about it. We heard about it. We didn’t actually know while it was happening but we heard and found out much later. And when they showed us all the pictures, how terrible and what happened there.” The thing is, when I was living and I remember that before and after the war, we had—my parents had two—several friends, and two couples were Jewish. One couple disappeared. We don’t know if they moved away or what happened to them. The other couple stayed only the husband was killed in a war. But we always had the highest respect for Jewish people because they were extremely welleducated, they had their own school, and they were wealthy. At least the ones we knew. And we looked up to them. And when I heard that story, I was crushed. I was crushed. I got literally sick �to my stomach when…Andre was his name, was telling me these stories. And then I heard more and more and more about it. And it was a shocking revelation. Strange why I was so protected. Why did I not know? Although I saw these forced laborers by uncle’s factory, so to speak, but I never put two and two together. I am actually still in awe how stupid I was. That I never even questioned anything. And it shocked me. It shocks me now. And I felt guilty all my lifelong and I still feel guilt that will never go away. I know there are a lot of Germans that say, “Oh, I had nothing to do with it. I was just a child.” Well, I might have been a child but it’s my people that did that. You know? And it’s—it’s very hard to digest. (00:55:40) Interviewer: Well, we really appreciate your talking about it. I mean, that helps a lot of us on this end understand a little bit better what that was like. Civilian: Yes, I feel I had to mention that because…Actually, in our area, we had—people are prejudiced, right? My family is Lutheran. My father was actually an atheist; he didn’t go to church. But my mother was a very devout Lutheran. But we had some—a few Catholic people in our area. And you know what? We didn’t like them because they were Catholic. Just like…it’s still the same today. Interviewer: It can still happen. Alright, now you’re going out. You’re getting yourself an education. You have gone to England; you’ve gone to France and you come back again to Germany. I mean, do you now actually take courses at the university? Or do you do something different? (00:56:36) Civilian: I came back and then they said, “Well, which direction do you want to take?” And I said, “Well,” I said, “I would actually like to become a translator.” And they said, “Well, we don’t offer that.” Because I didn’t want to become a teacher. I said, “What can I do with German, English, and French? I have to become a teacher.” And I was so scared I would not find a �husband and probably stuck with a bun in my head and a dry teaching profession. And so, I switched, you know, institutions or colleges or school or whatever you would call it and I went to a translation interpretation school for two years and graduated from there. And then I got my first job actually at a bank for a short while and then I transferred to a technical company and worked there. In the meantime, I remember…Yeah, yeah. I had an American girlfriend and my parents had a Christmas party arranged at our house. And she came and she brought two young men with her, and one of them was my husband. I was engaged at that time; that’s another story. I was engaged to a German gentleman. (00:57:49) Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: And my husband—well, my future husband then, he came to the Christmas party and he was only interested in my girlfriend. She was a beautiful girl. And she was from the center of town. She was actually a friend of Romy Schneider or somebody like that. You know, she was absolutely out of my range. Anyway, he was interested but she didn’t want him. She had nothing to do with him. And he was very handsome looking. He had just been in Berlin for 4 weeks. He was drafted into the Army but he never was really a soldier. Basically, he was a musician. He would play in the United States Army Band, marching through Berlin, making people happy. And well, I didn’t think anything about it. And my sister was there with her husband. And they invited him to a New Year’s Eve party. So, here he is at the New Year’s Eve party and that was that. And then 8 months later, we married… (00:58:53) Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: …on a day that is very famous. August 13th, 1961. The day they built the wall. And that was—the band was supposed to play at my wedding. They weren’t allowed to leave the barracks. And only a few people snuck out, including the piano player. So, we had at my wedding an �American playing jazz. He was up all weekend with that, so we had to borrow a record player. And that was about it. And then I…well, we moved into—closer to the area where my husband was stationed. And I decided then to switch my jobs and I got a job with a general at the Berlin command. And I worked there as a translator and whatever. And we—until we came to the United States. Because I thought well, I married him and I am going to the United States, I might as well get used to working for an American and that was the greatest idea. There is a very interesting book around that time. It’s called Uncle Tom’s Hutte, That’s a train—a subway station in Berlin, right at that area. Should—you should really read it. When I saw—it’s a criminal story but it deals with around that time when I was just living there and experience the whole thing. (01:00:20) Interviewer: Alright. Civilian: That was…well, that’s about the end of it. And then I came to the United States. Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: 1962. Interviewer: Alright. Now, do you have any particular memories of that Berlin Wall and the crisis that followed? Civilian: Oh, my god, of course. That was just—that was just awful. It was just unbelievable. The wall? Oh my god, the wall. How could I forget that? Interviewer: Alright, we were about— Civilian: Basically yeah, I could say that in a way, we were a bit more protected. Living in the northern part of Berlin, we were not as bombed. We did not actually experience the Kristallnacht the way you would experience it if you lived in the city and in the middle of the town, the city. Because, first of all, you didn’t hear much about it on the radio or you didn’t read it in the paper. �Interviewer: Okay. Civilian: We didn’t have a television. Interviewer: Of course, that was not—because that was actually, we were talking about in between switching the tapes, this was Kristallnacht. But that—you would have only been one year old when that happened. So, that would be— Civilian: Exactly. I don’t remember anything about it. Interviewer: But what we were talking about though, right as that first tape ended though, was the Berlin crisis. And so, what do you recall about that? Civilian: Right. The Berlin Wall. Yes, that was the day I married. It was a happy day and it was a sad day because we all knew what was happening. But that was not basically all that much of a surprise; it was coming for a long time. We were separated. My aunt and my cousin—her husband had died during the war—had to actually flee, later on, East Berlin. They lived in the middle of the city and they had to leave, for some reason or another. But we used to commute all the time by subway and by rail. You know, go into the eastern part and took advantage of the culture that they had. We had several opera buildings. I mean, as a child, I used to go to the opera the way people go to the movies nowadays, right? And we used to go and buy food there, which was cheaper. That is the only thing I remember. But that was Berlin. But the rest of my family all lived in eastern—in the eastern part, which then became occupied by the Russians. And the Wall totally destroyed our relationship with these people. And I eventually was able, after so many years, to return to East Germany. And I went back with my children when they were little and I went back almost every year and it took me forever to get a visa to enter East Germany to travel. And you had to stay on the same route. You couldn’t deviate. If you had to take the train, or if you took a car, you had only to take a certain street that you could take. They timed you. And it �was—my aunts and uncles, they were all very afraid of their children because they were already growing up as…indoctrinated by the communist regime in their thinking and eventually some of them, I am sure, went even further. I don’t know. But it was…it was very unnatural and I never in my whole life thought I would have to go through such a division in your life. And I…that is why I am a little bit apprehensive about what is happening today. (01:04:12) Interviewer: Okay. Now, when do you actually go to the United States then? Civilian: 1962. Interviewer: Okay, so when your husband’s time in Germany ends. Civilian: Right. Interviewer: Now, were you able to go with him? Or did you travel separately? Civilian: No, he went back with the Army and I had to take a—I stayed home and packed my stuff and mailed certain things and then took a boat coming over. I think I came by the Bremen. I don’t know, there was a big boat. It was a weeks’ voyage. And it was quite a—Ellis Island. Yes, it was quite a joyous moment although before I met my husband, I considered Americans very arrogant and entitled. I didn’t like them. I never thought I would marry an American. That’s the weirdest thing. I did marry one because I fell in love with him. And…I don’t know why we felt that way. I have no idea. It must have been something that I heard or saw or reactions. Anything like that. I don’t know. And that’s basically it. (01:05:29) Interviewer: Alright. Civilian: And that’s the end of my life story and then I lived happily ever after here in this country. This country was good to me for a long time. It allowed me to go back to college and study and do things. And I have two wonderful children. �Interviewer: Alright. Well, it makes for a very good story so thank you very much for taking the time to share it today. Civilian: Well, I don’t know if it helped you any. But anyway, I can show you the pictures now. (01:05:57) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JohnsonB2145V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Brunhilde (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-07-18 Description An account of the resource Bruni Johnson was born on April 17th, 1937 in Berlin, Germany. As a young child, Bruni was sent to work on her aunt and uncle's farm out in the country during the early years of the Second World War. In 1945, she returned to Berlin and experienced several Allied bombing campaigns. After the war, the Russians marched into Berlin and Bruni's family's home was converted into a temporary hospital for the wounded Russian soldiers. Her family lived in what became West Berlin after the Berlin Wall was built and, upon graduating high school, Bruni went to England to learn English and then went to France to learn French. She later went on to college and became a translator before marrying an American soldier on August 13th, 1961. The couple then moved to the United States in 1962 to start a family together. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Brunhilde Anne Rika Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, German Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9d9eecdc93df0e5f5229371fba793e1d.mp4 381ed79be00a4504467cf70e83178de4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2db96339cfe2bb924c6e3ea622618c72.pdf 0524254675251bbb29e36a50e67083b4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Raulend “Ron” Whiteis Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking with Ron Whiteis of San Diego, California, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project. Okay Ron, start us off with some background on yourself, and to begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: Chicago, Illinois in 1946. We moved to Indianapolis when I was 2. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And from the age of 3—all the way up from there, I didn’t really have any parental supervision. I used to wander the neighborhood. I did what I pleased. Really never got the memo on religion or anything like that. Interviewer: Okay. Well, were your parents both working or…? Veteran: My mother was deeply depressed and my father was working all the time as the head of Glidden Extraction in Indianapolis. Interviewer: Okay. And did you have brothers or sisters? Veteran: Actually yeah, I had 3 brothers and 2 sisters. Interviewer: And were they older? Younger? Veteran: 2 older brothers, 1 younger brother, and 2 younger sisters. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: So, I am kind of right in the middle. Interviewer: Alright. And where did you go to high school? Veteran: I went to Arsenal Tech High School in Indianapolis. It was a vocational high school. 78—76-acre campus. Very large. Interviewer: Alright. And when did you finish high school? Veteran: In 1966. I was supposed to finish in ’65 but I took a year off to go to the movies. I figured out the system, I worked it so I never got in trouble or got caught. For a whole year. Interviewer: You just kind of didn’t go to school? Veteran: I went every third day. Because after the third day, they had to get a note from a doctor. So, I went every third day. And then I took the rest of the time off. I had a really good time. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: But mostly it was because they kept sticking me in vocational classes and I hated that. And I just didn’t—and I was dyslexic. I didn’t do well in school. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you know—were you diagnosed as dyslexic or…? Veteran: Not until I got to college. And the psychology teacher was talking about all of this stuff and said “Now don’t begin to think that you are part of that.” And I asked him afterwards, and he asked me a few questions and then after a while he said “You’re dyslexic, that’s what is wrong with you. You are not stupid.” And they gave me an IQ test and I take—I scored 126. But the one they gave me in 6th grade, I didn’t even make it to 100. Because I couldn’t read. (00:02:32) Interviewer: Okay. So, how did you wind up getting into college? Veteran: I wanted something different than the life I had. I grew up very poor and I don’t know where the idea came from but I decided I wanted—I wanted to know everything. I wanted to �know the world. And I thought that that would give me the world. It didn’t, but it taught me how to find out what I needed to know. Interviewer: Alright. So, where did you go to college? Veteran: I went to Southwest Texas State University. It is now called Texas State University. Interviewer: Okay. How did you wind up there? Veteran: I came home from Vietnam and served my last 6 months at Fort Hood. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I met a woman in Temple, Texas and I don’t know…I didn’t think I was going to get married but I thought this might be a good bet. You know? And so, we got married. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: My brother was David Garcia of ABC News. Interviewer: Okay. Well that’s sort of—that’s coming after your time in the Army. But now before. You graduate from high school in ’66? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. And then, what did you do after that? Veteran: I worked for American Fletcher National Bank. I was doing computer stuff: check processing and balancing, accounts. Interviewer: Okay. So, you could work with the machines and things, you just didn’t read well. Veteran: Yeah. I didn’t have any problem with numbers, just reading. (00:04:04) Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And then, is this what you were doing until Uncle Sam came looking for you or…? �Veteran: Yeah. They turned me back the first two times because like I said, I was only 130 pounds and I was six foot three. Or six foot two. I gained another inch. So, that was fine with me because I didn’t want to go there. I was pretty much a wimp. Interviewer: Okay. And what did you know about Vietnam at the time? Veteran: Not very much. Not very much. I was too busy, you know, trying to figure out my life. So, I just—I really didn’t think about it, other than the fact that I didn’t want to go. You know. Interviewer: Okay. And so now when you finally do get the call—so when do you actually enter the Army? Veteran: I entered it in July of—the 23rd of ’69. Interviewer: Okay. And where did they send you for basic training? Veteran: Down in Kentucky at Fort Knox. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then down to Louisiana for AIT. Interviewer: Alright. Now you said you were not an athlete? Veteran: No. Interviewer: Okay, so what was basic training at Fort Knox like for you? Veteran: Like the Death March of Bataan. Every morning, we’d have to go out and run a few miles. And at the end of that, we were supposed to eat and I couldn’t. So, I became even skinnier. Interviewer: Did you eventually get into shape or get stronger? Veteran: Well, I found that there was a resilience in me that I hadn’t known before, that I would not give up. Especially when they would march us down to the rifle range every day, down Misery Hill and march us back up. And it just broke your heart because you think you saw the �top, and when you got to there, it turned and went further, and it kept turning and going further. And you—and everybody—half of the company dropped out. I wouldn’t quit. I wouldn’t quit. I didn’t know that about me. I just wouldn’t quit. (00:06:17) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: When I got to the top, I thought I was just going to keel over dead. I was just—I couldn’t see, I couldn’t hear. Moisture coming out of my eyes and mouth and nose and everything. I was pathetic. But I wouldn’t give up. And you know, I wrote about that because by the end of basic, the last time I walked up that hill, I didn’t break a sweat. You know? Interviewer: Mhmm. And did you eventually adjust so you could eat? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now the—how did the drill instructors treat you during this process? Veteran: Well, we had a few that was…treated us badly. But ours was a—he recognized that most of us were a little bit older and said “Look, if you just try, we are not going to harass you like that.” And it was a good thing because we wouldn’t have put up with it. You know, you can get a 17, 18-year old. But when you get to be 22…you know… Interviewer: You actually had a company or platoon of you that were mostly older that they put together? Veteran: Yeah, ours. I don’t know how it happened but—well, kind of. A lot of us—there was 4 different things and a lot of us got to be every 4th number so we would be together. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We figured out okay, everyone—squeeze in line up every 4th person. And then we were all together. �Interviewer: Alright. So, you found your own way there. Okay, so—now, and then, what about the…Okay, so the discipline stuff wasn’t quite as bad maybe as it might have been for another unit? Or another platoon? (00:08:03) Veteran: There was one that they replaced the drill sergeant because he got out of hand. And had some blanket parties and stuff. And see I’d have just killed his ass. I would have at that time. I figured I was going to die. I am going to Vietnam and I am going to die, I won’t be back. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know? So, I don’t have to put up with that. Interviewer: Alright. But in the meantime, you survived basic training. And then off to Fort Polk, Louisiana for your AIT? Veteran: Mhmm. Interviewer: Okay, and what was that like? Veteran: Wet. I mean, dry and dusty and just more of the same stupid stuff. And then I got a chance to go to APC training and I went to that back in Fort Knox again. Interviewer: Okay, and then…explain what that is. Veteran: That’s an Armored Personnel Carrier. How to drive one, how to drive it across the water, how to swim it. Interviewer: Okay. (00:09:00) Veteran: And then when I got to Vietnam, they put me in the infantry. Interviewer: Alright. So, was the APC training on top of the infantry training at Fort Polk? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So, you basically had 3 stages of training there. That was two. Veteran: Yeah. Well, if you’re already going, why not? �Interviewer: Okay. Now at Fort Polk, what—how was that different from Fort Knox in terms of what you were doing? Veteran: I think that they were a little less intense at Fort Polk. And they were willing to listen to the men. And one of the men went down and told the—wanted to see the commanding officer and said the food here is awful. And he came down and tried it and raised holy hell. And then he came down there every day to ask is this good? Is it good enough? You know. Got any complaints? Tell me. And we had good food from then on. (00:10:00) Interviewer: Alright. So, you’re experience in the Army has allowed for some push back. Okay. Now, how did the APC thing happen? Were you just…? Veteran: They asked if anybody was interested in signing up and I signed up. I didn’t think they’d call me but they said yeah. So, then they shipped me out there and I learned how to drive one of those big—it was fun. It was fun. You know? Interviewer: Alright. So, you just got to play with big machines basically? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And how long were you then doing that? Veteran: I think that was like a 6-week course or 5 weeks. I don’t know, it wasn’t very long. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, when did you finish that? Veteran: Sometime in the early part of December, I think. Because that meant I had a month leave, and then I had to report back: California, January…I want to say the 12th. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know, they just processed us, put us on a plane, flew us to Japan. Alaska to Japan, and then Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay. Was it a military plane or a chartered civilian plane? �Veteran: I don’t know. It was a pretty big—pretty big plane. There was no first class. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: They wouldn’t let us off and it was a little disheartening when we got to Japan and all the crew got off, then flew us to Vietnam you know. Interviewer: Okay. And where did you land in Vietnam? Veteran: I want to say up near Huế or Da Nang. Da Nang I think. Interviewer: Da Nang quite possibly, yeah. Veteran: Yeah, Da Nang. Interviewer: Okay. And then what happens to you when you get off the plane? Veteran: They put us in some crappy barracks and that’s when I found out that I should have brought money because people were having little quiet meetings with the people who were assigning jobs. And I snuck around and looked and saw they were passing money and I thought why didn’t I get the memo on this? I could be in Saigon. You know? In a comfortable berth. Interviewer: What did you get instead? Veteran: I got to go to Huế and then up near the…I am trying to think. It was Fort Campbell firebase. It was up near Quang Tri. (00:12:18) Interviewer: Okay. Yeah. I am not sure which—there is Camp Carroll but that is a little bit farther inland. Veteran: Well, this was out. Interviewer: Okay. But basically—Okay, well what unit were you joining? Veteran: The 101st airborne division. Interviewer: Okay. And when you first come up to join the 101st, do they give you some kind of orientation before you go to your unit? �Veteran: Yeah, they had the—we’d be on call all night long at the perimeter. And then they’d have some classes and I fell asleep in one and the lieutenant gave me a grenade to handle and took the pin out and said “Now you won’t fall asleep.” And I said “Boy, you really are the stupidest motherfucker I have ever seen in my life because when I fall asleep, I won’t know. You all will be dead.” Interviewer: So, what happened to the hand grenade? Veteran: Well, he was very nervous and cut the short—cut the lesson short so he could get it back and put the pin back in it. But I thought that was stupid. You know? I could have fallen asleep and killed everybody there. Interviewer: Alright. Now, did they teach you anything useful in that training? Veteran: No. No, not at all. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: All conventional, not jungle. Interviewer: Alright. So, you get a few days of that and then what specific unit do you join? Veteran: They sent me out to the unit…I think it was 2nd battalion of the 506th? Interviewer: Okay, 506th regiment. Okay, and then which company? Veteran: Company B. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And the captain there took one look at me and said something disparaging and get rid of him along with that other one too because they don’t look fit. He was a gung-ho, Rambo type and so they shipped me off. This was a lucky thing, you know. Because they shipped me off to a bunch of short timers. And I begged them to show me everything they knew about staying alive �because they survived the A Shau Valley and they must know something. And they did. (00:14:22) Interviewer: Okay, now just explain this a little. So, you go in to—was the company in the field? Or were they on the— Veteran: Yeah, they were in the field. On the hilltop. Interviewer: Okay, so what was the company commander—he just didn’t want to look at you? Or…? Veteran: No, he said something about what the fuck is this crap here? You know. Get rid of it. Interviewer: Okay, but he wasn’t—they didn’t actually send you— Veteran: He wanted robust men to go out and fly out at a moment’s notice to fight. Interviewer: Sure. Okay. Veteran: And I didn’t look the type. Interviewer: Yeah, well that part I get. I am just kind of wondering: did he expect you to get sent back to the rear? Or…? Veteran: No, just send me to a platoon that wasn’t doing anything, to get me out of the way. Interviewer: Okay. So, you moved on. But then—and then that’s the point where you kind of connect with a guy who— Veteran: I was very lucky. They taught me everything I needed to know. And I used that information to stay alive. Interviewer: Okay. What kinds of things were they teaching you? Veteran: How to not make a trail. How to quietly go through, how to spot if there’s any kind of mines or booby traps or anything like that. How to read a map: how to be able to look at that map and see the best route from place to place. It’s not easy. How I could take them up and down a �mountain instead of down in a path. How to train everybody around me to hand signals so that they wouldn’t make any noise. We had to—I felt like I was following my father’s Indian tradition to—you go through the land and never make a mark. And it was great. And I took over my platoon because of that. I was a private and I felt I knew more. I wanted to live and so I took over the platoon walk point for 9 months. (00:16:10) Interviewer: Okay. At what point did you start doing that? Veteran: Well, as soon as those guys got dropped to go home and they reorganized and put me in another platoon. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so— Veteran: When I say I controlled it, I did. The sergeant was a short timer. He didn’t care. And anytime we got somebody that couldn’t get with the program, I had the company ship them off and somebody else could come into the platoon. You know? Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so remind me again. So, when did you arrive in Vietnam? Veteran: I arrived there about the 12th of January in about— Interviewer: That’s right. Veteran: By the end of January, I think I was in another platoon. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I learned quite a bit about—I’m not bragging, I am just saying this is what happened and I have—at the time, I had never led anybody. I had never taken control, I never—suddenly, there’s a different person here. Who thinks, okay, if I am going to live, I better have a hand in this. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you have a lieutenant commanding the platoon? Veteran: No, we just had a sergeant. �Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so he was supposed to be providing leadership and… Veteran: Yeah, but he was a short timer and I think he kind of realized I knew more or something. He didn’t—I don’t know why, he just let me take charge of everything. Interviewer: And pretty much the rest of the guys were new guys now? Veteran: I am sorry, what? Interviewer: Were the rest of the guys new guys after that first group left? Veteran: Some of them were fairly new, along with me, and some of them were there a while. But they stuck to me. They stuck to me and I didn’t find out until much later. I felt my mission was to stay, number one—me, alive. And then protect and keep everyone in my platoon. Nobody was killed, nobody was injured. We weren’t run over. One of the few platoons that were never run over by the enemy. And I just chose to travel everywhere that would be unlikely to run into any kind of trouble that would hurt anybody. (00:18:24) Interviewer: Okay. So, at this point in time, your platoon is normally operating by itself? Veteran: And then every so often, after two or three weeks, we’d join up with the company and we’d… Interviewer: Okay, now what comp—what area were you operating in in January, February, early in the year? Veteran: Early in the year, we were down in the lowlands just by the mountains. By the foothills. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, we did have some hilly country there but we weren’t up in the mountains. Interviewer: Alright. And was there much enemy activity at that point? Veteran: No. No, really not. And in March we went up there and was put on the firebase to guard it while they opened up that firebase. I don’t remember the date of it but I know it was in March. �Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So…But then we were off again, roaming around the mountains. Interviewer: Alright. Well, your company—I mean I guess the 2nd battalion 506th that you were with—you were with them and they had the job of setting up a firebase on the hill that comes to be known as Ripcord. And the first attempt was in March and A company went in and they were not successful. April 1st, B company was sent there. Veteran: So, that was in—I thought it was March but that was… Interviewer: Oh, okay. So, what is— Veteran: I lost track of time. Interviewer: So, what do you remember about that? Did you actually land on Ripcord yourself? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. So, what happened that day? Veteran: I don’t remember much of anything except that I was trying to find a bunker. And I had seen the one down at the very end being built. And I chose that one, to be down at the very end, because it was a better-built bunker than any of the others. And just guarding the place until they took us off. (00:20:15) Interviewer: Okay. Well, that’s later because the April—1st of April, B company lands and then they leave at night. So, you’re just there on the hilltop for a day and did not establish the base. So, you don’t remember that? Where were you do you think, April 1st, 1970? Veteran: Not sure. I remember that they were building a lot of the bunkers when we got up there. They weren’t finished. And they were bringing in cannons, the 105s and the— Interviewer: Okay. That would come later once they actually had taken over the hilltop. �Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: But there was, B company was on and off in the space of about a day and then they were back patrolling the jungle again? Veteran: Yeah. I remember we were just shuffling. It didn’t make much sense to me. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You go where you’re told. Interviewer: Okay. So, it wasn’t really registering with you at that point what exactly was going on? Veteran: No. Interviewer: You were on a hilltop, then you left the hilltop, and then you were patrolling. And then you come back later and the base is now under construction. And you wind up being kind of on perimeter guard for that. When you are patrolling around in the jungle, around the time when they were—before you wind up with the regular duty up on the base, was there much enemy activity out there then? Veteran: No, really there wasn’t. Well, a few others run into it. Quite frankly, I tried to avoid that as much as possible. Interviewer: Okay. Now, your platoon—was the company still operating mostly in platoons at this point? Veteran: I remember still being in platoons and running around on some of the mountains and everything and meeting up with the, every so often, with the company. Interviewer: The rest of the company. Veteran: And then dividing up and going again (00:22:01). �Interviewer: Okay. And…let’s see. So, how long were you spending out in the field, at one time? Veteran: Well…I am trying to remember. Pretty long time. We didn’t much get stand downs. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I had heard of them but we didn’t get them. I got a stand down because I got cellulitis in my knee. Puffed up real big. And they put me on a—it was foggy, you couldn’t see anything. And they had a ‘copter come in there, a slick. Put me on that slick and sent me back. And I thought well, this might kill me. You know, fast. And then the doctor said you must stay in bed and you must have them bring food to you and I thought I am not doing that. You know? And then at the…the sergeant, the company sergeant, put me on the garbage truck you could at least work. And the physician came by, the doc, and saw me and made me get down. And raised holy hell about it. And that’s when I found out that I could easily lose my leg. And—because I had to go every morning and have a shot of penicillin. You know. And that’s, you know. So, that’s when the sergeant took a dislike to me. I think he thought I ratted him out but I didn’t. It was just coincidence the doctor saw me and said “What the hell are you doing up there? Get down.” Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know. Interviewer: So, this is just one of those infections you get in the jungle? Veteran: I don’t even know what caused it. Could have been a scratch. Who knows? But it just swelled up like a melon. You know, and I didn’t realize it was that bad. I just thought well, you take a little penicillin, you’ll be fine. Interviewer: Okay. Well, that attempt—I mean maybe, that might have been when the company first went to Ripcord. (00:24:04) �Veteran: It could have been. Interviewer: Because it was fairly dramatic in most of their stories. But if you weren’t there then… Veteran: I don’t remember it so it probably—I was back at base for about 2 or 3 weeks. Interviewer: Yeah, that could be right in there because eventually B company does go there and they are the ones who do much of the perimeter guard work. And your recollection is going to that base and picking out your bunker? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Now, describe a little bit then what the firebase looked like? Veteran: Well, it was pretty barren. You know, they had all kinds of bunkers built in various, you know, construction. I picked the one that was built the best. And there was a lot of traffic in and out. And we had a select helicopter shot down bringing in ammo. They managed to get over to the pad and set down and then they come out and took it away. They didn’t learn anything that the reason the firebase blew up was because they shot one down over it and it blew up and the ammo dump blew up and the war pits went up and then the 105s went up. It took 11 hours of concussions before it finally finished. Before that we were on a hill. 805—his company—we took that hill because they were using it to shoot onto the firebase. So, we took it away from the enemy. We had a…what do you call that? We went en masse and helicopters went in… Interviewer: Combat assault. Veteran: Combat assault. And we took that. So, it meant—interesting things happened up there at the time. One, we were constantly getting struck by lightning. I mean one time, I thought there was an explosion. Another second later, it ran up my legs and made my heart beat funny, then ran back down again. And I thought whoa. I was—I did not, I wouldn’t get in the foxhole �because it was filled with water and I was afraid. The ones that were in the foxholes when it hit—they got it the worst. So, I laid down beside it. A mortar came in and there was a great big flat faced boulder. And it hit the boulder and went up like a ball of static right over the top of me. And I woke up to that, you know, and rolled over into the…And three of them, the commander and the medic and I think the lieutenant came rushing out there, because they thought I’d be dead. And they couldn’t find a scratch on me. They’re like this can’t be happening, you know, where you get hit right, like, between me and that door. It was that close. You know? Another time, the company commander came over to me and said “Get your guys together.” And I thought get your guys together? I’m a private. And he said “And go down there and check that out because that’s where they’re sneaking in on us.” And I didn’t want to take that order and I didn’t want to disobey it either so I had a thot come with me, which is a shotgun but shoots grenades. (00:27:36) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And I imagine—I went to the edge of the thing, and I imagine the grid. And I started firing them, further and further out. The company commander comes over and says “What the hell are you doing?” And I said “Making a path, sir.” And he thought about it and he said “Carry on.” And it turned out really good because when we went down there, they had—the Viet Cong had dropped all of their weapons, including a machine gun and ran off. (00:28:07) Interviewer: So, there were Vietnamese trying to get into the perimeter? Veteran: Oh yeah, every night. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We didn’t fire back. We didn’t let them mark our positions. Interviewer: Okay, so what— �Veteran: We had a lieutenant that was great with artillery. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And he would call it in on them every night. Close. Interviewer: Yeah, so—so they basically said—would they get into the wire? Or were they outside of the wire? Veteran: Well, we didn’t put wire up on the hill 805. Interviewer: Oh, that’s 805. Okay, I am sorry, I was thinking of Ripcord in the south but you are talking 805. Veteran: Oh no, we hadn’t gone yet. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: The company C decided that they wanted off Ripcord because they were constantly getting mortars in on them. And I don’t know how they arranged it but one day we got notice that, I think company A, came in to cover for us and we got to the firebase and took over for them. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: Walked over and they went off into the jungle. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, yeah, so you have your field time with—around hill 805. When—did you have any Vietnamese scouts with you? Veteran: I had a scout earlier than that. For a very short time. I don’t know what happened to him. Nobody wanted him. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: So, I said “Okay, he can hang with me.” You know. And he used to cook up all kinds of strange food and share it with me because he wanted me to taste this and try this. Well, it could have been dog for all I know. You know? But it was better than C rations. Interviewer: Okay. And was he any good as a scout? Veteran: I really don’t see that he had any input whatsoever, he was just sort of there. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know, and he didn’t advise me to anything. He figured I was doing pretty good, I guess. I don’t know. I remember that time that I used to keep all the food that they sent out, where other GIs threw their—some of their least liked food away. Because when we ran out of food and everybody was real hungry and they’d come over and want some food, I’d give them that food. And also, I was known as the library because I carried several books. And people would bring me a book and they would exchange it for another book because sometimes you’d be out there and you’d be camped out there and no place to go and nothing to do. And they would read for a little while, you know, to take their mind off things. You didn’t get to read very often but you know, it was there. And so, I carried a lot of books. Books are special—were precious to me at that time. (00:30:53) Interviewer: You were able to read them? Veteran: Well, not very much at a time. You know? I remember that when we were—when the firebase was exploding, I had a book called How Green Is My Valley. I still have it. I haven’t read it since. But I would talk to myself: if I could just read one more page, and then think about what to do, it would keep me from panicking. Because they would come around and jump into the—my little pit in front of my bunker and you could see in their eyes. They were like some psychotic horse in a burning barn. And you’d try—I tried to talk them into coming in and �staying, but after a little while, they’d jump up and run off the mountain. You know, so…I pretty much was on my own but it used to scare the hell out of me when they would just jump in. Interviewer: Alright. (00:32:00) Veteran: You know, you could see that you couldn’t reason with them. You could see that they were beyond reason. Fully panic mode. And I, every time, it made me panic and made me feel like I should run too. And I thought no, that’s not safe. Interviewer: Well, was there even a place to run to? Veteran: Well, just off the hill. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Off the mountain. And I don’t know what happened. Some of them, I guess, got killed running off the mountain. But I managed to just…I’d sit there, read the book, and I don’t remember what I read and I read the same page over and over, about 20 or 30 times that day. You know, trying to, you know…A little candle in there to read by and try not to panic, try to hold it together. Try to, you know, tough it out. And I guess I was down there—my mate for the bunker left and I don’t know where he went and I was down there by myself for 3 days. Trying to stay awake and falling asleep. Trying to figure out the enemy were coming up the mountain at any time. You know and…And I would have still been down there until the enemy come up, if somebody hadn’t thought to send somebody around to all the bunkers to make sure everybody was out. Interviewer: Okay. So, basically, you’re in the last weeks of the Ripcord campaign. There’s a period there in July of 1970 when essentially there is regular bombardment happening. And you’re pretty much pinned down in the bunkers most of the time? Veteran: Well, we came out and did stuff and then run to other bunkers. �Interviewer: Right. Veteran: I was cleaning up on the top of the hill some stuff and taking it to the side of the hill, the top of the hill and throwing it off. This was after the explosion, everything blew up. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And we’d get incoming rounds and I would run in this bunker but that one day, a series of things happened and I don’t know how. But 4 or 5 guys, I guess they are rear echelon people because they had no sense, to walk all the way down there in a group. You know? And it really irritated me. And they—we got incoming, and they ran into the bunker that I was using. So, I went across the top of the hill to the bunker on the other side and it was not a very well built one and I thought this is really dumb. Through all of this explosion, you are running across the top. And then when I got all clear and came out, they took a direct hit right in the doorway. It killed two or three and injured a whole bunch of others, and I would have been one of those. And just because I got angry that they were all lollygagging around, coming down the top of the hill like they were back on the—home on their block. You know, I knew they weren’t infantry. The infantry wouldn’t have walked all together like that. So, and I just—it really irritated me. Now, I wouldn’t go in there. (00:35:13) Interviewer: Okay. Now, was this on the last day? Or…? Veteran: No, it was not— Interviewer: A couple days before? Veteran: A couple days before, because then they told us to get in our bunkers and stay there. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And then I stayed there a couple days by myself. And I… Interviewer: Now, was it normal to have just one man in a bunker? �Veteran: No, it was supposed to have 2 but I don’t know what happened to the one that was in there with me. He may have run off the mountain, he may have gotten killed. I don’t know. There was nobody to talk to and I didn’t have a radio to contact anybody and I was just down there and that was my post. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then that’s where I had to stay. Interviewer: Alright. And…So, we get to the last day, which would be July 23rd at that point, and they evacuate the hilltop. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And so, you were just there and somebody came to get you? (00:36:03) Veteran: Yes, somebody came around to say send somebody around to all the bunkers, check to make sure everybody was out. And they come down there and say “What the hell are you doing here? We are leaving! Get up to the top!” So, I got all my stuff together in my rucksack and everything and I thought—my legs were all shaky from fear that they would leave me. And I started up the trail and I thought that’s really stupid because you can’t go around the side from bunker to bunker because you don’t have the strength in your legs. You know? And about halfway up, I looked, I was looking around, and there was no sign of anybody and I thought they had left me and I kind of gave up for a minute. And I just kept wondering why they didn’t lob something in on me or kill me, you know? I was a perfect target. I didn’t know at that time that the Vietnamese—Viet Cong—were coming up the mountain at that time. And so they stopped firing on us for fear of killing their own men. (00:37:05) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So— �Interviewer: So, there was no incoming fire then at that point, when you are scrambling up the hill? Veteran: No, nothing. It was just dead quiet. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I almost gave up. I had the moment of giving up and then I decided, I don’t know, something kicked in. And I decided this is not where I am going to die. And I cussed myself. Move it. Move one foot after the other. Come on, you can make one more step. And I did that all the way up to the top. Crawling along real slow. And when I got to the top, two guys ran out and grabbed me and ushered me into the bunker up there. Lieutenant said “Get to the back drop, everything. Get back up here and in line.” So, I went back there, I put a long range patrol in this pocket, I put my wallet with all my family pictures in this, I put on a canteen, I put two bandoliers of ammo, I grabbed my thump gun and I grabbed my M-16 and I went up there and he said “Drop all of that! You can’t take that with you.” And I said “The hell I can’t!” Now, where do you go from despair to total anger? And I said “Because if that helicopter gets shot down and I’m not dead, I am walking out of here. I’ve got my map, I can do it.” And I just knew that I would do it. I knew that I could go out at nighttime, because I had a terrific night sight. In fact, when there was only stars, I could see the enemy on another hilltop, moving around. Other people—I thought everyone could see that well but they apparently can’t. (00:38:40) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I just knew that I was going to get out of there alive if it didn’t kill me. And then the helicopter was coming in, he didn’t have time to argue. He said “Go!” and I ran out there and jumped on the helicopter before it even hit the ground. And 4 or 5 guys jumped on top of me. And they bounced and took off down the side like that and an explosion went off and I thought �we are hit, we are going down. And then the next thing I know, they were coming up and going out through the valley. And I thought wow, I thought we were hit. You know? And then everybody got off me and sat up and I was able to sit up and look around. I thought this is, you know…When I was up there, there was only about 10 or 12 people left in the bunkers, so I know that there was only one more slick coming in. Those helicopter pilots…They are the bravest people I have ever heard of. They kept coming, no matter what. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: They got us out. No matter what. Interviewer: Now, were they getting fired on? Veteran: All the time. They were getting hit. I remember one coming towards the mountain and I said “Everybody get down, he’s been hit and I don’t know if he’ll make it.” He just barely made it over the lip before he—it conked out. You know. But you could tell he’d been hit. So, they came in. I don’t know, I’d never seen anything that brave before. They came in and they got us wherever we needed them. (00:40:16) Interviewer: Okay. So, when you were making your trip from the bunker back to where the helicopters and stuff were coming, so that part, you were not taking fire? Veteran: No. Interviewer: That was just quiet. But once you get over to the side—well I guess, when maybe when the helicopters came in, did they all start taking shooting? Veteran: That’s when they came in. They had it all marked out. They had it all zeroed in to that pad. And they would come in low and they would come up on top like that and set down. And I jumped on it before it even set down. And 4 or 5 guys jumped on top of me, it bounced and off it �went. And the explosion went off and I thought we are hit. We are going down. But that was on purpose; they went down low and went out through the valley. Interviewer: Yeah, and I guess before you left the bunker, when you were still down there in the bunker line, did you see any Vietnamese out there? Veteran: No. I kept thinking they would be coming up the mountain soon, because we didn’t have anything to protect us, you know, other than the perimeter guards. And they never did. I thought that was odd and I don’t know, I thought it was odd that nobody was shooting at me while I was making it to the top. Because I was a good target. You know? I was very—moving very slow. I had the most dreadful case of wobbly knees. The whole way up there I thought, you know, there’s no way, they’re gone. They left me. You know, there’s not a single person in sight, not a helicopter coming in, not a sound. I had been left. I don’t know what I was going to do. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So… Interviewer: So, now you’ve made it back, and you get back to Camp Evans. Now what happens? Veteran: I stood on the pad. We were told to go to the company but I couldn’t leave until I saw the others come in. You know, I just stood out there and I watched the helicopters come in to see if all of our men came in and everything. I just—I couldn’t leave it. I felt like why me? I’m her safe. They are still out there. So…And then we had to turn in all our weapons and everything and go to our company. And then they took us to Beatle Beach? (00:42:36) Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: For our serve—that’s the first time we got R and R. That was already in July: from January to July, you know, that’s the first time we had a set down. You know, stand down. And �that month, they sent all of my money…No, it wasn’t that month. Yeah, it was. They sent all of my money home. I had an allotment for my widowed mother. And they sent all of my money home that month and I didn’t have any. And so, the guys shared up some money. And because I didn’t drink beer because beer made me sick, one of the officers kept going in and getting me a high ball and bringing it out to me so I would have something to drink, you know. Interviewer: So, he could get liquor in the officers’ club but you couldn’t get it? Veteran: You couldn’t get it, you know. Interviewer: The enlist club. Veteran: I am 22 year—23 years old at that time. But not allowed to have, you know, hard liquor. Interviewer: Alright. Now, after the whole R and R kind of period there, do you go back out in the field again? Veteran: For a long time, we were supposed to wait until we got more people in and they kept having us do little things and training and all kinds of stuff. It was just to keep us moving, you know, and finally, I guess we went back out sometime in August. But we didn’t go all the—they had such bad weather, they trucked us out. And dropped us off out there in the foothills of the rolling hills. We didn’t go back up the mountains right then. And then, my R and R came up and I was called back in to do my R and R. And I had put down, I had purposely put down R and R for September so I could get Australia because I thought well that would be great to see Australia, but the previous company clerk sold it to somebody else. (00:44:43) Interviewer: Oh. Veteran: And I wouldn’t take R and R. I said “If I can’t go there, I will just sit here for a week. I don’t care, it’s not a big deal.” “No, you have to go someplace.” I go “I am not going to Bangkok �and I am not going to others.” Some of these guys came back with some dirty diseases that I couldn’t walk near, and I am not…Of course, I—mostly it was because I was a virgin. So, I wasn’t going to go do that activity. I just—it felt so sleazy. So, they said, “Well, if you’ve got somebody that could come meet you in Hawaii, we will send you there.” I said “The only person I’ve got is my mother and I don’t know if she’d come.” They sent out the paperwork and everything and she met me in Hawaii and we paddled around on the…Hawaii. The people there wouldn’t let me buy or pay for anything. Everywhere I went, you know, no matter whether it was a store or anything, they just kept saying “Oh no, no, no. No money.” We went to see Don Ho. And for my mother’s age, she was a good-looking woman and being a widow, Don Ho had somebody come out and ask her if she’d come up on stage with him. He had a bar in the back. So, he kept her up there for hours and I am like when do I get my mother back? You know, and he was…it looked very intimate. It was kind of embarrassing: my mother is being romanced up there by Don Ho, you know? And you’re not going to give her back? Do I discreetly leave and pick her up later or what? I don’t know what to—what’s the protocol? You know? So, eventually they sent her back and they had taken pictures up there and gave us the pictures of her up there with—so that she’d have a memento. And it was very interesting. You know. And we went to a few night clubs and saw some acts. I got to see some…what do they call that? The—it’s a famous bar there that all the celebrities went to. It was right in the…it was right in one of the main hotels or something. I can’t think of it now but I went in there and I thought this is where the celebrities meet? It’s so tiny. You know, it’s just a bar and there’s no tables and stretches on down to the end. You know? And we stayed at the…I can’t even remember the hotel we stayed in. It was right there on the beach. So, it was interesting. I enjoyed the time that we spent there, you know. It was the first time I was able to get any news of anything going on. They, you know, �I hadn’t heard anything since July of ’69. I had no idea what was happening in the world. (00:47:52) Interviewer: Right. Veteran: I had never heard of Kent State. And even to this day, somebody will say something about—in the past and I’ll think I don’t remember that…Wait a minute, was it in 1970? Yeah. And that’s why. You know, it’s like you’ve lost a year of memory. So… (00:48:13) Interviewer: Okay. And then, what was it like having to go back to Vietnam at that point? Veteran: Well, it was…it was kind of sad. With—I thought, well, you know you made it this far. Maybe you’ve got a little luck still. You know. I figured it was about fifty percent luck and fifty percent know-how. And that’s kind of modest. Well, not very modest but it’s the way I felt about it, you know. And so, we went back there, we went up in the mountains for a while and…Patrolling around and not much happening. Then next thing I know, they were calling for me to go back early. And then they put me on perimeter and they processed me and we were out there for a couple weeks, I think. And this Indian guy, Gabe Muselah. I remember his name because he saved my life. He—when I first met him, he was shipped out there and he went around and talked to a lot of people and got to me and asked me questions about things. And apparently, whatever I said was right because then—from then on, he stuck close to me in our troop, you know. He was looking for the best possibility for himself. And I understand that. I was, you know, I wouldn’t want to be with some of those. GIs are dangerous, especially if they don’t know what they’re doing or they do something stupid. You know? We had a guy carrying a clay bird, always putting it on. And I said “Don’t do that, get rid of that. That’s dangerous. You go out there one of these times, they’re going to booby trap it.” “Oh, no, I look at them pretty careful.” Went out there one time, blew it up, he was dead. It was very shocking, you know. I �shared a nighttime position with him. And they put his body in a bag and this sounds a little…little insane. I spent the night talking to him. That’s crazy. (00:50:29) Interviewer: You mentioned that fellow, you said he saved your life? Veteran: Gabe. He—some, one of newcomers came in, they thought they heard a noise and they popped a grenade. I already lost hearing. I didn’t hear it. And they threw it, only they threw it at us. Because the positions, one was out in front of the other. They threw it over onto us. He pushed me into the foxhole and jumped in on top of me. It exploded and all kinds of rocks and everything came down on us and I thought oh my god, I made it this far and then die? Because of some cherry over here that doesn’t, you know, is scared of the dark? Interviewer: So, this is stuff when you were on perimeter duty? Like at the very end? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: This is just before getting sent home and I thought this is—there weren’t—how tragic is that? How tragic is that? When, you know, you make it all this way and then some Jerry blows you away with a grenade. And Gabe got out his knife and he went out there to kill him because that’s the way you were at that time. You were just nuts. You know? And, but they, the patrol, got down there first and got him away. And he came back and said “They took him away. I didn’t get a chance to kill him.” You know. But, in normal talk like that, that would be something normally you would do. You know, you’d just—normally, you’d just kill them. Interviewer: At what point was your hearing damaged? Veteran: On the firebase. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: Well, it started over up at the explosion that went off on 805. And this—out of this ear was facing it. That’s the worst ear. But after eleven hours of concussion everything, explosions and everything, I just noticed after that I couldn’t hear my watch tick and I didn’t hear a lot of things. And I thought well, it’s probably good that we’re getting close to the end because you know. You’d need, at night, you’d need to hear your hearing. Really bad, in case anybody is trying to sneak up on you. And I had excellent hearing, excellent sight, before that. So…I would have probably—I would have probably been just sitting there until the grenade went off, because I didn’t hear it. He heard it and he jumped. Pushed me in there and jumped on top of me and I’m forever grateful for that man. (00:52:43) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: He was a Zuni Indian. And we became friends, you know, before that. We took a perimeter guard together, you know. Interviewer: Okay. Was that sort of the last adventure you had in Vietnam? Veteran: Yeah. Then they sent us on a…one of those big, fat looking planes down to Huế and processed us and I didn’t sleep for days. I have pictures of me there: the circles under my eyes, you know? And everybody was trying to be nice on the flight, you know, and you know. And they took pictures with us and stuff, the ladies on the flight, the stewardesses. And you know, we were joking and carrying on and like when they get ready to take off, everybody raise your legs. You know, like it would help you get off the air and off the ground. And it was a—we flew to Guam and then from Guam we flew to Seattle. And then they, I thought it was very funny, it was like they wouldn’t let you go anywhere. They kept you bottled up and then they escorted us to the airport and took us in there with a, you know, like you’re going to process to get them processed through and put me on a plane. And they put me on first class. And they flew from �there to Denver and I didn’t even get a chance to notify anybody. You know? And then they put me on another plane and I finally fell asleep. And apparently, I was moaning and carrying on and everything and they kept waking me up and I would go “Why are you waking me?” You know. “Sir, you’re making a lot of noise.” And I didn’t know I was making a lot of noise. You know? And I got home and found that my mother had given away a lot of my stuff because she had the idea I wasn’t coming back. Sold my baby grand piano, gave away a lot of my clothes. I had a comic book collection and I was sorry to see that go. You know, from when I was just a small kid, I collected them. And they were all in—you know, I kept them in real nice shape and everything. I just…I thought that was just odd, that she had given up hope or something, that I would come back. (00:55:21) Interviewer: So, like after she had been out to see you in Hawaii, she got rid of all that? Veteran: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: Maybe she— Veteran: Maybe it was a protective thing, you know, to—that she needed to protect herself because she had bouts of depression and everything and maybe she just needed that to think that—get it done and stop worrying or something. You know, I—I felt a lot of sadness from my mother. She made a lot of trouble for herself. Life was not good to her. It could have been better but she just gave in to it. And I found that I had the opposite: I won’t give in to anything. I can’t—I didn’t know I was—I didn’t know that about myself. I didn’t know that I was just that stubborn. That I wouldn’t give in at all. You know? And when I—they sent me, I got leave to after Christmas and then they sent me to Fort Hood. And they wanted to play war games and I said “This is stupid.” So, I went over to the captain and I said “Hey, I hear you’re having trouble organizing KP help? I can take it over and I can run it. And you won’t have a lick of problem.” �You know, and he said “Okay, go ahead.” So, I did. I called in certain people from the field that wanted to come in. I had a list of more people who wanted to come in. And I made up the schedule and I said “You only get one script and you go back to the field, somebody else is in here. 3 men on, 3 men off. You work 3 days on, 3 days off. And do what you want but you better be here when it’s time. And no griping, and you work your butt off and you clean and you scrub pans and everything.” The cooks were happy. They were just…this is wonderful. You know? And then they—I was sitting outside reading, because when we finished, we would finish up our work early and go out and take a break. And the captain—the sergeant came by and said—told me to get over there and pick up this trash and take care of that. And I said “No.” And he said “Oh yes.” And I said “Oh no.” And I got up and I walked into the thing and I knocked on the captain’s door and I said “Look, if this is going to work, we are not going to be doing other duties.” And he told the sergeant “Leave them alone.” He liked that I had it arranged, you know. Where does a spec 4 get the idea to just say no to somebody? You know? Get that stubbornness? (00:58:03) Interviewer: Well, people—my impression is, when people come back from Vietnam, at least sometimes did, there were things they weren’t going to put up with anymore. And— Veteran: Yeah, you had your chance to kill me: you didn’t kill me. I expected to die. You know, I had already figured that’s it, you’re going to die over there. That’s it. Or, you’re going to come back—well, when I took that shrapnel in my back, I couldn’t feel my legs for a few moments. And I hit it and knocked it and got it off my back where it was burning through three shirts that I was wearing. And burnt me on the back and made me for a moment paralyzed. And I thought oh god, please don’t let me be paralyzed. You know? And then, they wanted me to come in off the post and I wouldn’t do it. I was like “This is not hero stuff. Don’t come out here: don’t come out �here because then everybody will know where we are at.” And they did anyway and I thought well, I can’t argue because that’s just making more noise. So, I went in, you know. They wanted me to go back. They said “Well, you won’t get a purple heart unless you go back.” And I said “Who gives a shit?” You know? Let me—just put some salve on it. If it’s not better in the morning, I’ll go back. And that’s what he did: dressed it out there and, the medic did, and that— the next day, it didn’t look so bad. And I never went back in, they just kept checking it every day. You know? Wasn’t going to do it. (00:59:32) Interviewer: How would you characterize the morale of your unit while you were in Vietnam? Veteran: Well, I don’t know about…There was some newcomers that came in that seemed to me that they were living in a kind of fantasy world. “Oh, don’t worry: it’s going to be over any week now. They are talking peace talks. It’s going to be over. I don’t need to worry about anything.” And then you know, we had one in our platoon for a while. I traded him off to somebody else because he sat down and said “I can’t climb this hill any further.” And I went up—I broke my cardinal rule, because I went back down there after I unloaded my pack. And went back down there and got him up and took his pack and I pushed him up to the top of the hill and I told him off, all the way up there, you know? And he later went down the wrong trail and got blown up. I don’t know whether he died from it. I don’t know. He certainly didn’t last very long in Vietnam. But I could tell he was in a fantasy world. And you know, he didn’t take it seriously. And I traded him off: I said “Get him away from me because otherwise I’ll kill him.” You know, I was serious. You go a little nuts out there, you know? He was a danger to us. (01:00:52) Interviewer: Yeah. So, morale was sort of—people just didn’t engage reality. I mean, did you have— �Veteran: Not morale. The people that was in my platoon was pretty good. But then, we avoided everything that we could. And I didn’t want me to die and I didn’t want any of them to die. And I realized if you take control here, now they depend on you. And if they get hurt, it’s because of you. And that—I took that very seriously. I worked 24/7 for the whole time I was there to make sure that nothing happened. Interviewer: Okay, so we had been talking. I had asked a question sort of about morale, and you were talking about your own unit’s morale. Your platoon’s morale was pretty good— Veteran: My troop was—we were pretty happy together. I used to get care packages from home and my brother would slip in some whiskey and stuff and we’d be sitting around at night and I’d share that with them. We’d all have a toast that we were still alive. I just wanted to say that it sounds like I’m bragging here, all this stuff, but I don’t really understand how a kid can grow up being pretty much a sissy, can suddenly turn in to this other person that I didn’t recognize. I didn’t know this person. This person was stubborn, this person was all “make damn sure that we’re going to do this, we’re going to…” You know, I would just become this other serious 24/7…By golly, if we’d—if it’s up to me, we are all going to live. (01:02:33) Interviewer: Now, did you never have a lieutenant in your platoon? Veteran: No. Interviewer: So, you just end up—you had the whole—you had the sergeant, now did he go away eventually and get replaced by another sergeant? Or…? Veteran: Replaced by another sergeant. Who I threatened to kill because he said “We are not going up and down any more mountains. We are going down this path.” And I turned around, took my gun out of safety and I said “Well first of all, you’re going to shut the fuck up or I am �going to kill you right now.” And I didn’t say it loud. I just said it in this voice, and I meant it. And something on my face—I know that face. That face is my father’s face that will make your bowels liquid. And I used it later when I became a teacher. Scared the principal. He came in one day to view my class and somebody decided to act up and I gave them the face. And when I gave the face, the kid scrunched down in his chair and the principal got up and left and I thought that’s funny. Why would he leave? He was only here five minutes, how can he do my class? And I went down there and the other principal said “Oh, he turned it over to me because you scared him.” I am like, “What?” And I—my son told me “I know that face! I have seen that face on you. You scare people with that face.” And it was my father’s face. I knew that face but I couldn’t ever duplicate it in the mirror or anything. I was not being brave. I didn’t see myself as a hero. I am not a hero. I am a practical thinking person that wants to stay alive, and I will do whatever is necessary, to stay alive. You know? So, it sounds like I am bragging but I just—still to this day, want to understand where that person came from. Where did that person come from, that all of this stuff happened to you, the right and left of you, and only the—the only scratch you got was a burn on the back from shrapnel? You know, people were dying right and left. And there’s times out there, I thought I had gone crazy. And 30-some years later, when they threatened to get rid of our cost of our insurance rate up real high, everybody talked me into going to the VA and seeing if I couldn’t get their, you know. And so, they questioned me about my hearing and then they started really questioning me about firebase Ripcord and what happened to your hearing and everything else out there on that firebase. And I had a flashback and a meltdown. How can you have a meltdown 30-some years later? Almost like it was yesterday. And I couldn’t make it stop. It came in waves and I couldn’t make it stop. And they kept saying, “Oh, you have posttraumatic stress.” And I am like, “No, I don’t have anything. I am okay, I just can’t make this �stop.” And they kept passing me from person to person. They kept saying that. They finally sent me to a psychiatrist. And she said—I said “I looked at the DSM. I am not alcoholic, I am not a drug user, I am not—I don’t have fits of violence, I don’t do…” You know? And she got it out and said “This is what you looked at?” And I said “Yes.” And she said “Turn the page.” I turned the page and I fit all of the sub-category. I thought oh shit: I’ve got post-traumatic stress. And I am still having meltdowns from it. How do I stop this? You know. And she said “You need to talk about it. You need to talk about it to anybody that will stand still and hear the story.” And I can do that now a lot better because at first, it would make me cry. I would cry all the time while I tried to talk about it. I’d get real emotional over it, you know. And I thought this—I don’t know whether this is any good. I asked her “Does this go away?” And she “Well, it’s kind of ingrained in your mind after all of this time. I don’t think that we can get rid of it but we can teach you coping mechanisms.” And so, I learned coping mechanisms to cope with it, you know? Coming here, I didn’t know whether I could do it. I said “I am going.” I said “It’s probably going to scare the shit out of me.” I was sick for the first couple hours of the drive up from San Diego. Then, when I got to about halfway, I started feeling better and got here and… (01:06:59) Interviewer: Is this the first meeting you have come to? Veteran: I went to the one in Fort Worth when I was living in Texas. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: But to travel anywhere, I always—or to go outside of my comfort zone. But I did get stuck once in my apartment with agoraphobia. And I knew that I had to keep pushing the envelope. So, what I used to go by is that—is something I read someplace that said “What would you do if you weren’t afraid?” And then I would go out and do it. You know? But it helped. It kept me from getting—coming unglued. You know, I kept going places by myself and pushing �the envelope as far as I could push it. I didn’t know whether I would make it here. I thought this is going to be very embarrassing if I get about halfway and turn back. You know? And I was sick. I thought I am sick; I don’t think I can go. And I was like, you know, grow up. You drove here, you know. Just go. And I did and I thought, you know, I am just going to do it. I am going to do it. I am afraid. I am afraid. I am frightened. I am going to do it. And when I got here, I was just fine. Interviewer: Yeah. (01:08:14) Veteran: I was worn out, tired. Slept good that night. You know? Interviewer: Well, it’s a good group. Veteran: Huh? Interviewer: It’s a good group here. Veteran: It is a good group. These are men that I served with. Although, I tried to block out most of it so I don’t remember the names and faces like I should. You know, it’s like I—when I came back, I decided that I was going to just pack it up and put it in a corner in my brain in a closet and pretend it didn’t happen. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And that’s what I did. I had nightmares and I would wake up in the middle of the night in a panic and want to run. And no place to run. I would get up and read until morning, you know. And everybody thought that was odd. I was very dependent on the word fuck. I loved the word fuck. I used it all the time. Scandalized my family. You know? They didn’t know who I was but they—and I think I scared them a bit. You know, because they sent away this little wimpy kid and he come back and…It didn’t seem to me—I didn’t seem to be very aggressive. You know? How did that happen? When did that happen? And in a way, I am not used to saying �“Thank you for your service” and pat me on the back and say “You were a hero.” No. No, don’t say that. You want to see heroes? Look at those chopper pilots that came in there and knew they would come in there under fire to come and get us. That’s a hero. You know? I did what I did to survive. I did what I did to make sure nobody around me got killed because of me, doing something stupid. So, that’s not hero material. That’s just practicality. That’s just someone doing what they have to do to survive. (01:10:10) Interviewer: Which is, ultimately, what winds up leading you to do things that people label heroic in a lot of cases. You weren’t doing it for that reason, you were just doing it. Veteran: You are scared to death and you still do it. Interviewer: Yeah. Now, you mentioned that when you got back, and you got out of the Army, you were a different person. So, what did you then do? You got out of the Army. Was that when you went to school then? Or…? Veteran: Well, I went back to school. I got my degree. I got a regular degree because everybody at that time was saying if you got a teacher’s degree, it wasn’t really a degree. So, I thought well, because I have such stubbornness and pride in myself, that I am getting a regular degree and fill it in with my electives with teaching credits and everything. And then I had to leave that because both my wife and I got sick and we had the baby and so, I had to go work for my brother, doing aluminum siding. And then I got a job on the railroad. And I worked on the railroad for 5 or 6 years and then Reaganomics killed that. And I come back to Texas and fought through depression and you know, I got myself together and went to see a counselor who counseled me that I should go back to my original plan, which was to become a teacher. So, I got the last 12 credits and got me a job over in Fort Hood. Now, that may seem crazy, to go to an Army camp when I didn’t want to have anything to do with the Army. But they were paying the most amount �of money. Nobody wanted to teach over there. And it was great. I loved it. But I did avoid going out on, if I could, I’ll avoid it, if they had some sort of thing going on out at Fort Hood. I’d ask somebody else to take my place and go. You know, and so I didn’t go. But I got the best job I could and suffered a divorce right there at the beginning. And stayed because I wanted to make sure my son—this was my kid, I raised him. I diapered him, I bathed him, I fed him. And I did everything for him because my ex-wife was a little depressed at that time and she didn’t really want a child, you know. And so, I kind of—he was my baby. I put him in a snuggly. You had to buy a snuggly through a Woolworth catalog at that time. Covered the baby completely. You couldn’t see it unless you were taller than me, to see there’s a baby in there. You know, I had—I stooped over to get something at a store and some lady saw I had a baby in there and screamed at me and run off to tell—call the police because I was abusing that baby. And I am like “No, it’s like being back in the womb: he loves it.” You know? He’s all nice and warm in there and he can hear my heart beating and I run a higher temperature. And so, he was like—it’s like just a blanket. So, I stayed to raise him, make sure he didn’t become a dirtbag. Make sure he went to college. Became a teacher and started out teaching math but I was a little too good at that because all of my students passed the exit exam and that was not so good because there was only—everybody else only had 60 percent. And I guess they were afraid that this would cause a stampede for parents wanting their kids in my class or something, I don’t know. They asked me to move over to social studies and gave me 4 preps for, you know, 4 different classes to teach for my efforts. And I went down there and said “Do you have—you don’t have a psychology class, could I teach a class that’s psychology?” And they said “That’s 5 preps! Are you nuts?” And I said “Yes. Give me it.” And so, they gave it to me. Within a couple years, that’s all I was teaching: psychology, sociology. And then finally, just psychology. You know? And it was �not—here’s something funny: I decided that my class would be a give and take. We are not going to discuss—you’re not going to learn dates and all that. You can talk to me about Freud. What do you think about dreams? You think they mean anything? You got to have an opinion in here or get up. You’re going to have an opinion. And sometimes it felt like I was on the edge of chaos, conducting this and any minute now, it was going to be going to a riot. And the best compliment I ever got is a teacher came down and knocked on my door after lunch and said “What the hell goes on in here?” And I had been teaching—this was back when they were not teaching sex education and I was teaching sex education in the one chapter because we had already had two students turn up with HIV. And I decided nobody needs to die for lack of information. So, I was teaching a very outward everything about sex. No matter how red my face was, I was going to teach that. And I figured that she heard certain something and I probably, this is when I got fired for this. And I said “What do you mean? What’s—what happened?” And she said “I was just down in the lunch hall and a group of your students are arguing over Freud down there.” And I thought, well, is this a bad thing? “Well, they never argued in my class over anything down there.” I am like “Well, I just wake them up and send them out there into the world.” You know? I would do things to provoke them, to get them into arguments over things. To make them see that psychology is in your life every day. So, I enjoyed it. It was a little radical but here’s the thing, I read this book when I was about 18 or 19, called To Serve Them All Our Days by Rodney…Doctorfield? Interviewer: Delderfield. Veteran: Delderfield? Interviewer: Yeah. �Veteran: I stole all his ideas. And it wasn’t until sometime later I read the book again and I thought oh my god, I thought I had all these ideas myself. And I just stole them from this guy that come back from war and became a teacher. And I thought well, that serves me right. You know? Thinking that I was really something. You know, to do all this. But it was great fun. I enjoyed it. So, it was—that’ s part of what I did. I went back to school and go that degree and got a job teaching and I stayed with it for over 20 years. And then I just—we got a whole new bunch of officers in. The superintendent and the assistant superintendent and they—at that time I was counseling students and they felt that we weren’t doing enough. And they loaded us down with a lot of secretarial jobs. And I said “Have you read the state manual? It says I am supposed to counsel 55% of the time. Do you know I have 7 students who are of suicidal ideation. I had to get their parents in here and get them off to the funny farm so that they wouldn’t kill themselves. I got 4 more I check on every day, at different times during the day, to see when they cross over. I’ve got all the teachers alerted to send me anybody that is acting funny. That they might—you know, were depressed and now they’re suddenly happy. Because that means they have figured out a way to kill themselves.” And I thought, you know, I’m—nobody is perfect and I just—I don’t think I can bear it if one of my students kill themselves and I didn’t catch it. So, I just said “You know what, if that’s the way you’re going to be, I am just going to retire. I can sit at home for more than half my salary. And I don’t have to worry so.” You know? It’s a lot of worry. You don’t know how vulnerable these kids are. You don’t know. Until you counsel them and find out so many of them are fragile. Especially with your parents over in Iraq or in some distant land where they could die at any time. And they don’t know what will happen to them. So…Oh well, that’s, you know, that was—I loved the career and I would have stayed but I just couldn’t deal with not taking the time to talk to every student 3 or 4 times during the year. I had 350 students. I �had to contact them all at least 3 times during the year to make sure. Not only for college and scholarships and socioeconomic things and see how they were doing, socializing them. And you know, there’s other stuff too. (01:19:14) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So…My dad told me when I was about 21 that I was a two-spirit person. I didn’t understand it. He said “Don’t be afraid of it and don’t be ashamed of it. You’re a two-spirit person. You always nurture, wherever you go.” I thought that’s an odd thing for my father to say and I don’t know what it means and I didn’t want to—I didn’t want to ask because it was one of those Indian things, you know, that he was fond of saying at—from time to time, you know, that was just kind of creepy. You know. So, maybe I am a two-spirit person; I don’t know. I’ve mentored all my life, in every job that I ever had, I was a teacher. So, it just came natural to me. They always send them to me to teach. (01:20:05) Interviewer: Now, how much of that, do you think, goes back to what sort of happened to you in the Army? Veteran: Well, the Army changed my life radically. I think it—I really do, I think it changed my life radically. I would have never been the person I am today. You know? People say “Oh, I wish that didn’t happen to me.” Well, yeah on the one hand, it was terrible. I lived through it. And I changed. I no longer was willing to be stepped on and stomped on and pushed to the side. Now, I fought back. You know? Let’s go do city. You know, you want to criticize me? Alright. I had an assistant principal who hated my guts. She was always trying to get me fired. I kept good records. When they’d take me down to the office to see the principal about some complaint or other, and I’d get out my…And I didn’t say she was a liar, I didn’t say—you know. I said “Well, I am sorry that you have been misinformed. Here’s what really happened.” After a while, the �principal got tired of that. I guess he said “No more.” You know? “Stop this, whatever it is you’re—I don’t know why you don’t like him. But leave him alone.” And so that was the end of that, you know. It was just…I tried to teach everybody around me that when parents come in distraught, do not escalate. De-escalate. And same in the classroom. You’re a teacher; you can make it worse or you can make it better. Don’t give them an ultimatum. Say “Here’s the choices. You choose. What do you want to do?” You know? Calm down. Get back in the swing of things. You want to go down to the office? You want time out? You know. What do you want to do? But I won’t put up with anything. You know, go around any corner, I got two degrees in psychology, I’ll be waiting there for you. You know? I will outsmart you in every way. Don’t try me. I’m a Vietnam vet, you know. I’m mean. We can have it sweet as pie or we can have it mean. Your choice. You know? And I never had trouble in my classes like anyone else had. I don’t, you know, I just—I thought, give them a choice. Let them choose for themselves. They want to go down to the office? That’s fine. I’m not angry over it. Sometimes you need a time out. You know, sometimes life just overloads you. And you bring that to my classroom and maybe you need a time out. Tell me if you don’t want to be called on today. You need some time to just contemplate. Okay, I won’t call on you. Now, let’s not make it a habit but if you have an overwhelming day…just…And if you want to talk, I am here. I am always here. And my classroom is like Vegas: what happens here, stays here. And anybody who spreads any rumors, you’re out of here. You go around and share what you hear here, you know. And you have to be sensitive to where you’re going because sometimes you have to stop them and say, “Wait a minute, wait a minute. I think I know where you’re going. Think a minute. Is that something you want to share? If it’s not, we need to stop here.” And you know why? I’ll tell you a real happening. The guy across the hall taught biology. And he was having a really good time that �day and he was telling them about—he was talking about reproduction. He was telling them all the chemicals in sperm. And one girl raised her hand and she said “Mr. K—” Well, I shouldn’t say his name. Said “That’s all sugars, isn’t it?” And he’s just like, “Yeah, you get it! It’s all it really is. It’s all sugars.” And then he didn’t see where it was going and she raised her—she said “How come it tastes so salty?” He went outside, closed the door and fell down laughing. He didn’t know what to do. I said, “You’ve got to think down the road where this might lead. And I’m sure that girl didn’t want to share that and I’m sure that it was all over school that she shared that. You’ve got to stop them before they incriminate themselves. You know? Think a minute. Is that something you want to share? Because I think I know where you are going.” And they would say, “Uhhh…No.” “Then good. Move on. Let’s go on.” You know? (01:24:57) Interviewer: Yeah. Well, that one would have blindsided me but… Veteran: Well, it blindsided him. I felt sorry for him. I thought I don’t know whether you could have prevented that one. I really don’t. But I just know that you’ve got to watch out when you’re working with these kids. They say things. And a lot of them go home and kill themselves because they think they can’t face life now, because they shared too much. They overshared. You know? I closed down program after program as were—our altered programs. They come in every year with training for a week. New stuff that was going to save education. And I would sit there and I see globally. Not specifically, but globally. And I would see the flaw and I would ask—I would try to ask a question, as innocently as possible so that it didn’t look like I was causing trouble. And it would pull the tapestry apart. And they would fall apart, you know. And so, they would have to modify it and change whatever they wanted us to do that year. Well, one year they wanted us to a—have all the kids journal. Oh, it’ll be great. They’ll journal. And I said, “Oh, I think you should think about this.” By that time, all the principals from the different �schools and the superintendent and assistant superintendent was always in the back of our training session. You know, and every time I thought well, that’s going to get you fired. It didn’t. and I said, “This journaling, it could get out of hand because they may overshare and then they will go home and kill themselves.” “Oh, no. I don’t know why you think things like that.” So, we went in small groups and they tagged along to my small group and sat in the back. And the teacher—I told a joke to the other teacher when we were supposed to share something. And she came over there and said, “Well, how about sharing that with the group?” And I said, “I don’t want to.” And she picked up the paper and said “Well, what is it that’s funny?” You know. And I took it back and put it down. And she said, “Well, I mean you know, you could share this with everybody.” And I took it back. And that—and I said, “See, this is exactly what I’m talking about: you have authority and you’re using your authority to get me to share what I don’t want to share. And then one of these kids are going to share something and they’re going to go home and kill themselves because they overshared. All because of this, because you’re not trained to have them journal.” And they all got up and left. And I thought, well now you’ve done it. You’re fired for sure this time because they are going to just throw you out of here. Any minute now. Besides all that, because I am teaching sex ed too. And all that ten years or twelve years that I did it, nobody said anything and I don’t know why. Next day, we were told to go to our rooms and just work in our rooms because they cancelled that. We are not going to do journaling. (01:27:45) Interviewer: Alright. Well, the story has taken us in a lot of pretty interesting directions, so, I think we’ve gotten a pretty good idea. But, you know, it all connects which is— Veteran: Well, I am surprised I got through this without crying. That usually happens somewhere along the line. Or being overwhelmed. I’ve been trying to follow the psychiatrist that told me to get ahold of anyone that wants to hear and tell them all about it. And sometimes it does cause �tears and, you know, sometimes it shakes me up a little bit. It was an experience. I am not saying it was a great experience but it was an experience that changed my life. It made me a different person. I don’t know whether that is good or bad. You know, I certainly became adamant and stubborn. When my son wanted to quit college, I said “Oh, no. Over my dead body. You’re moving back in with me and you’ve got a place to live and a place to shower and a place to do your clothes and food that’s in the refrigerator and that’s all I can do for you but you’re going back to college. You’re going to finish.” And he did. And I said—and then he said one time, and he said to me “I am not sure college is great. I don’t know whether I can afford for my two boys.” And I said “Oh, no. I want a promise right now that they’re going to college. I didn’t raise us up out of the gutter for you—from trailer park trash to become this and then let them slip back down.” Usually, the third generation it happens to. And I said—and he said “Well, I don’t see it makes any difference.” I said “How much were you making before you went to college?” “Making $32,000.” “What are you making now? $110? $120? It’s not worth it? You make three times what I was making as a teacher. You know, when I started out. And it wasn’t worth it? Damn right, it’s worth it. And I don’t care what anybody says: education is the key to becoming something better in this life.” And I went after it: I came back from Vietnam and I went to college and I had my family pulling and her family pulling and everybody pulling the other direction. And why are you doing this? And you’re not smart enough to do this, you barely made it out of grade school and you graduated from high school with a D- average. You know? Well, there was a reason for that. I didn’t know that at the time but there was a reason for that, you know. But I wasn’t going to give up. I wanted to know everything. I thought if I went to college, I would know everything. Turns out, I don’t even hardly know anything but I know how to look it up. I know how to find out that information. I know how to research it. You know? That’s �what education does for you. And I know how to find out information so you can form your own opinion. And you don’t sit around being ignorant. You know? I had only a size ten and a half shoe when I tried to stamp out as much ignorance as I could. (01:30:56) Interviewer: Alright. Now, in the meantime, you’ve filled— Veteran: Huh? Interviewer: And in the meantime, you’ve filled in another piece of both the story of firebase Ripcord and told a very good story about what it was like to go through the U.S. military and what it meant. So, I’d like to just close this out by thanking you for taking the time to share the story today. Veteran: I still don’t know—I still don’t understand all that happened to me there. I still don’t understand all of it: what changed and when it changed and how it changed. Or, how I came to this point. But like Cher, I think that all the things that happen to you make you who you are, and if you like who you are at this point, and I do, then everything was the right thing to happen. So, I’ll leave you with that. (01:31:44) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_WhiteisR2157V Title A name given to the resource Whiteis, Rauland (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-03 Description An account of the resource Rauland Whiteis was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1946 and graduated high school in 1966. Whiteis was drafted into the Army in 1969 and attended Basic Training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, as well as Advanced Individual Training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. He was then deployed to Vietnam with the B Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne Division as an infantryman. He participated in the combat at Firebase Ripcord and was only injured once in the back while in Vietnam. After being discharged from the Army in 1971, Rauland attended Southwest Texas State University, where he completed two degrees in psychology. He then accepted a position teaching at Fort Hood, where he taught high school classes for over 20 years before retiring. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Whiteis, Rauland Lee Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7290dbe22a6f358f78ea2056d5046d4b.mp4 96c0a28f9bfa2e114d4cbbe9dbf04d8b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5e4b1f70622f423842800fd8275bd9d.pdf 76f6dac90cf3960c31e475d3d9609e4d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Chet Trybus Interview Length: (46.19) Interviewed by Michael McGregor Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Interviewer: Today we’re interviewing Chet Trybus of Grand Rapids, Michigan. The interviewer is Michael McGregor with the Grand Valley State University's Veteran Oral History Project. To begin Chet, when and where were you born? I was born March 16th, 1945. During World War II actually, in Highland Park, Michigan just outside Detroit. Interviewer: Okay and what did your parents do? Well my dad was a TV service repair manager For the Good Housekeeping shops in Detroit. Sort of like the equivalent to like the ABC Warehouses of today but he did the radios and TV repairs. Interviewer: Okay and did your mother work outside of the home? Nope, she never worked outside of the house. She raised five boys and lived in Detroit my whole life. I was born and raised within eyesight of the old Tiger Stadium, which is now a vacant piece of property. Interviewer: Yeah, okay where did you go to school then in Detroit? Detroit, I went to grade school at a place called St. Luke's, grade school in West Side Detroit. And then to Detroit Catholic Central. Graduated right from there in 1963. (1.10) Interviewer: Was that when Detroit Catholic Center was in Detroit? Actually, it was, yeah. Now it's in Wixom, Michigan. Interviewer: Yeah. �Yeah. Interviewer: Okay, what do you recall about growing up in Highland Park. Well actually it was West Side Detroit where I grew up. Well, I, since the age of eight I had a newspaper route. Routes plural, from The Shopping Daily News, to Detroit news, Detroit Free Press and I drove a truck for the Free Press. Basically, it was a real nice neighborhood type of atmosphere. A lot of kids play together, very different than from today, you could walk to school. You could not worry about being on the outside at night and so forth. It was a good time, I had a good time going up there. Interviewer: Okay and then after high school what did you do? (1.53) Well after high school I went to Henry Ford Community College and that was a full-time, and I also drove a truck at night for The Detroit Free Press and delivered all over metropolitan area newspapers to stations at night. I actually, when I was at Henry Ford Community College there, I had a full credit load, which was more than 12 hours in 1964. In 1965 I dropped to part-time because I had more hours at the Free Press driving the truck and then I was reclassified because that was during that time when the military would- you'd be reclassified if- you could stay in college if you had 12 hours or more and then after graduation going active duty. Well I fell below twelve hours and so I was reclassified immediately and- and so I got a notice from the draft board and I says, “oh no I'm below 12 hours what am I gonna do?” So, I went to the draft board downtown Detroit and I talked to the guy in charge of it and I says, you know trying to validate is this correct and so forth. He says, “well yeah.” And I says, “well I really can't serve on active duty,” and he said, “why not?” I says, “I got a bad case of acne.” And this guy did a double take, he kind of chuckled and he said, “no I'm sorry, you’re- you can serve in the �military.” And so, what happened was, there was four buddies of mine down the street. I lived on Ohio Street on the west side Detroit that we all got our notice to report for our armed forces physical exam, examination on July 16th, 1965 at a place called Fort Wayne. Which was an old fort, during I guess colonial times, but it was at the foot of Livernois and Fort Street in Detroit. So, we went down there for our physicals and I'll never forget during that time, what sticks in my mind, you know how things stick in your mind; I was going through with a hernia check. There was a line of about 300 of us being examined for hernias, there was a glass plate in front of us and then the doctor would examine us. The guy in front of me, when the doctor said “cough,” he would not cough, and he asked him two more times to cough and he didn't. He said look, “if you don't cough the next time to examine you for a hernia,” he says, “you're going to the Brig.” So, he coughed, and the things moved on. So, I was kind of concerned about, because everybody that I knew of went to Vietnam immediately. And I was kind of like in that stage in my life where I wanted a complete college, but how do I do that? So, I talked to someone else and he said, “you know why don’t you try the Naval Reserve?” So, there was a Naval Reserve station on Jefferson Avenue in Detroit. So, the week following my army physical I went down there and signed up for the Naval Reserve. And it was back in- to August of 65 and of course, when the Naval Reserve you get yourself the proverbial Blue Jackets manual. The how-to, everything to know about the military, how to dress, and so forth, and ships that you might be on, and so forth. So, I got that and that was kind of fun and so what happened there was, afterwards I was still in college because I was deferred through college now, they told me for the Naval Reserve you could, even though it was in 1965 my targeted graduation day was December of 68. So, I could say in The Naval Reserve with the understanding that you would spend two weeks of active duty for training every year prior to going on active duty. So, my first boot camp was actually in �December of the- of 1965. So in between my college break I went to Great Lakes, Illinois for my boot- boot camp and it was quite interesting, we're like a dorm style boot camp. Probably I think it was, I don't know probably close to maybe 100 guys here. And this happens to be me… wait where am I located here? (Holding up photo) Right here, right close to the chief petty officer there. And I was the storekeeper there, so I had some extra duties, but extra privileges because of that. And after that I went back to school of course at Western Michigan University where I got my undergraduate degree in 68. And then the next summer, which was the summer of 66, I did my first 2-week active duty for training at Great Lakes, Illinois and we were required to be on a ship for a while. So right on Lake Michigan they had a ship called The Porridge, it was a patrol craft escort ship. And so, all of us recruits went out there to training to get on the ship and of course they got me on the, they sat me in the tort of a- a 2... Interviewer: 40 millimeter? (6.35) Well it could have been. These the- the shells were about this round (showing hand motion). They had- they had a cartridge of them, about 16 of them, and so the- the guy who was the gunners mate said, “okay you're gonna aim for this 55-gallon barrel out there in Lake Michigan.” So, I was the pointer, the pointer and a trainer and I was pointing the gun and my foot was on the trigger basically to start shooting the rounds and I was getting close to the barrel in terms of trying to hit it direct, and you know and make a score. But it I just couldn't get there, so I stopped shooting and all of a sudden, the gunner's mate yelled, “clear the deck.” And I said, “what is going on?” He says, “wasn't that a jam and you're in your gun?” I says, “no I just wanted to point a little bit better.” And he says, “you could have got us all killed.” So, they never kept me on the- �the pointer round for the turret anymore. So, I just went back, for the day, we were just out there for the day. And do that little round there it was kind of interesting. The... (7.37) Interviewer: If I can interject then you- you joined the Navy Reserve. Yes. Interviewer: You- you went to the reserve center; they gave you the Blue Jackets Manual. Yeah, yeah. Interviewer: And equipment … between then and one you had to go to Great Lakes the first time, did you have to go to meetings once a month? Oh, absolutely. Yeah absolutely. Interviewer: What did those consist of? Well they basically take you through the- the regiment of the military. Understand the rules of the Navy and so forth and the processes procedures if you will. The formal things on saluting and standing at ease and all that stuff. And essentially understanding the process of the Navy and how it kind of works from the enlisted guy on up so, you'd understand that. There’d be various fastest of the training month-to-month that you'd go to, so throughout the entire year I'd be going to 12 meetings. Plus, I would be going to two weeks of active duty for training and usually the summertime. (8.33) Interviewer: Now in, in- in your Reserve Component where there are other people had already served and are staying in the Navy or was it just all individuals like yourself? Who… �Yeah it was fellows try to get out of the active duty to go to Vietnam per se. But we knew we had to serve but we’re by and large everybody I was with was in college of some degree yeah. Interviewer: Okay so when you were at Western you were still going to the meetings and that and did you have to go back to the Detroit area? Nope, we had a… fortunately we had a reserve location in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Interviewer: Okay so you did that there. And one of my commanding officers there was actually, taught at Western Michigan University. Interviewer: Okay. So, we did that. It was quite easy for me to do it because the meetings I think lasted about two or three hours each night. Interviewer: Okay so you- you went there for basically two years then? (9.29) I was there, let’s see, I started Western Michigan in 65 and then 68. Oh, one more thing I want to mention to you. During this time of course, I mentioned the Free Press. Kind of the highlight of my working there was in 1967 the riots in Detroit. My particular route that evening of the riots which was a Saturday night before Sunday morning started was 12 Street where the riots started. And during the next three or four days, we'd go out on caravans in these yellow trucks delivering newspapers at night. And to our newspaper stations and the trucks were being fired upon by snipers. One guy got on the back of my truck and at 45 miles an hour he fell off because I- he was gonna try and hijack my truck when I was driving it. So, that was in 67. So, between the Naval Reserve working and so forth, quite interesting. Then in 68, July of 68 I married my high school sweetheart I met at Western Michigan and that was getting near the time of graduation at Western. Which was then what would have been active duty shortly thereafter in April of 69. �And my wife became pregnant shortly thereafter and we- I graduated in 68. December of 68 and then in February of 68 just before active duty we lost our baby she was born, lived 27 hours. And we had a barrier her in an unmarked grave in Kalamazoo which was quite a blow for the entire family, including myself. So, about that time I got notice from the Navy that you, I had a choice of serving two years of active duty in Vietnam or through your stateside. Well given the fact we went through this major trauma in our lives, I elected to do three years of active duty. Starting in April of 69 and they gave me a choice of Omaha, someplace in North Carolina, or Great Lakes, Illinois and I says, “Great Lakes.” So, that was north of Chicago. And I says, “well you know it's not too far from the family from Detroit basically, versus Omaha. So, let's go there.” So, lo and behold we packed up our bags from Western Michigan University and lived in married housing and took my car down on the interstate and of course it overheated, and we had to trying to limp our way to Great Lakes, Illinois. In advance of that we were given some notifications of where do you stay? Because we're husband and wife together. So, we had to rent a third-floor apartment in Waukegan, Illinois not too far from Great Lakes. And then till my application cleared to get base housing. We got the base housing three months later it was pre-World War II officer housing. And it was a, something you would not live in today because it has the asbestos sighting. It had compliments of mice and roaches and dirty walls and… but it was our place. We live across the street from some barracks and in the summertime, we'd hear revelry going on across the street for the recruits, but this was actually married housing. So, we live there for the entire time and interestingly enough the high cost of that to me, it was fifty-four dollars and thirty-five cents a month which included all utilities; heat, light, and all that good stuff. And we had a good time there. In fact, I can remember one of our parties of the seven other families that lived in our housing unit. We had a summertime party and we went through 47 ears of corn, had �of course roast the corn, and 18 bottles of wine. So, the next morning was kind of a highlight of our day, is waking up to corn. (13.06) Interviewer: Now before you want an act of duty, while you're still doing the reserves how much of the time of your meetings were spent on physical training and physical fitness? Actually, virtually nothing. We did do, I remember in boot camp we had to go through swimming exercise and that sort of thing but we, unlike the military, the army and so forth, or Marines, we never had, you know to the degree of physical stuff that you guys went through. I know, we never had that. Interviewer: Okay. So, we're all sizes of people that were in the Navy at that time. From the slim to the big. Interviewer: And at the time that you got your draft notice what, which prompted you to join The Naval Reserve. How aware were you of Vietnam? Oh very. Interviewer: Because it was 1965, our involvement was just escalating at that point. (13.59) We had friends, neighbors that had died there prior to me going on active duty or being drafted. So, I had an awareness of that, you know it was something that was looking ugly out there, and I was trying to hopefully out live it by going through college, but it never happened that way because it didn’t end until the seventies so. Interviewer: So now you, you're at Great Lakes, so you’re out of college, you’re what an E3? �I was an E4. I had an E4 over four years, so I had some stripes on my arms that showed every, you know every four years you get a stripe and so forth, so I was an E4 over four. And I went directly to my first assignment and only assignment in the Navy was at the Commandant ninth Naval District building at Great Lakes the building one they call it. Where they- they have all the graduation ceremonies in front of it and I was assigned to a job called a fiscal liaison accountant. Basically, in our group, active duty for training that was the assign two-week training duty for officers enlisted in which we'd process about 20,000 orders per year. And I was involved with literally just pricing out pay. Travel per diem for each one of those and then at the end of the year do an accounting of all, basically a six-million-dollar budget that I was kind of responsible for tracking. And we did that we had an office of about 35 people there. Had enlisted people, had an officer, commanding officer, and we had civilians that worked along with us. And of course, the old style we had ditto machines and all that good stuff to crank out the orders and so forth. Kind of an interesting highlight of that particular stay, we made a lot of good friends. Friends that were from Alaska, from the south, from the Midwest, we stay close to today. It was a very nice environment, collegial environment. I had one of my several commanding officers complimented me on my abilities to speak and write and so forth and do my job, but he said regarding, how’d he put it? Let's see he said something regarding my future and the Navy he said (reading,) “his potential as a storekeeper is excellent.” Which I was a storekeeper. “However, his military capabilities are lacking.” What he was- had a problem with, he had brush haircut. One of my several commanding officers and at that time there was a Chief of Naval Operations called Admiral Zumwalt and Admiral Zumwalt used to call what they call the Z Grams on what- how he felt about that- how people should work and- and participate in the Navy. And he said that basically, “enlisted people were allowed to have sideburns down to the bottom of their earlobes.” �Well, my commanding officer having a brush haircut, being a very-very military guy, he had a real problem with that. So, we would always give him a little bit of jive by, you know one day I said to my commanding officer I said, “you know what, basically you’re a radical sir.” And he says, “what do you mean?” I said, “you’ve got a brush haircut, we don't have a brush haircut.” So, I think that stuck with him, but I had a good time. I had good commanding officers there. We had- we got along well we could speak person-to-person without having the enlisted versus an officer thing. Even though I respected that position, we still had that opportunity to work with them. One of the funny things about that office I'll never forget; Bertha, one of the gals that work there. An elderly lady, she went to the bathroom one day and so she came back, and everybody was looking at her because when she walked by us, she had her dress tucked in her panties and she didn't know that until she sat down on her cold chair. And then everybody looked around. We had some good times there. It was a good, we'd get together at night and so forth, but I did also work during that time, in the Navy. At- at Citizen Lobank,I was in the credit department and an experience... I'd do that, I would be going to school... by the way I was working on my master's degree on active duty. Just one block from my house, Roosevelt University, had a program for public administration and so I wanted, I attended that to work on it. But the other nights I’d work at the credit department because I think- when I got out of the service my net, my gross pay was four thousand bucks a year. Yeah, so, I need it every penny I could get my hands around. We even bought a Volkswagen back then for sixteen hundred and fifty bucks and I needed every penny to pay for that thing. But one day in the credit department, I used to whistle like a bird and so I had seven crowns’ put in my mouth. I could do a real great sound for a songbird. So, I was in the credit department and I started whistling like a bird. My buddies knew I could whistle, and it sounded realistic and my credit manager had a big vented grate above on a �wall above him, and he thought there was a bird caught on this grate. So, what does he do? He calls maintenance and they unscrew this 50-year-old grate which falls to the floor. And he's standing there with a fish net trying to catch this bird and nothing comes out, so word got around. So, the next time I went to work the next day he said to me, “do you whistle like a bird by chance?” I says, “oh no sir.” He says, “but if you did,” he says, “never do this again.” [Laughter] (19.09) Interviewer: So, he knew. Now at Great Lakes you were- you were processing the... Orders. Interviewer: The orders for what? It was recruits that finished training there, or people who were getting out of the service, or what? No, people who had served on active duty or had the requirement of serving two-week active duty for training per year. Those were officers and enlisted people so I we- we would then create the destination, put them on a ship someplace, or a naval district someplace, and then I’d price them out from where they're coming from and to, and give them the pay for that, and the travel, and the per diem, the cost of that two-week training duty. And as I mentioned over 20,000 orders we processed per year, high turnaround of paper. Interviewer: What was the average workday like for you there? Well it- you'd get there at eight o'clock and you'd leave at five quite frankly. And then you'd have your staff watch duties. I had a couple of duties; I'd have to staff, I'd have to stand in or, it was an office, staff watch office at building one commodious office usually on the weekends like a Saturday over Sunday. One night, I'll never forget this, it was 2:30 on a Sunday morning and the base red phone rings next- on my desk. �Interviewer: What was the red phone? (20.29) That was that was the Admiral’s phone. If he called you immediately picked that up and he lived just behind our building, so I got a 2:30 in the morning got a call from the Admiral’s wife this is Admiral Renken, R-e-n-k-e-n his wife said, “there’s an intruder in our kitchen please get help.” Well my chief petty officer was on the couch, you know we had a couch, office had a couch and recliner and so forth and I says, “chief there’s an intruder in the Admiral’s quarters what do I do?” He started stuttering, he couldn't get himself together. So, he says, “talk to the Jag officer Judge Advocate,” our Attorney officer was in the next room sleeping which was the protocol. Woke him up he says, “pick up the black bass phone and call security.” Well I did that, as soon as I did that the colonel, the marine colonel who was next to the Admiral’s quarters was notified that there was an intruder. So, he automatically picked up his phone had called the Marine barracks kitty-corner to our building and- and it was like 2:30 in the morning so the Marines were just coming in off of a… a good soda pop evening. And those guys had just come in from rotation from Vietnam, and he says to these guys, “find this intruder and do not go to sleep until you find them.” Well that was 2:30 on a Sunday morning. They found this guy at 4:00 p.m. on a Monday afternoon on the ravine next to Lake Michigan. It turns out that there was a marine on the beach he was heavily drinking, and he was hungry around 2:30 in the morning and he looked up the ravine and saw this light and a- a house like. And so, he says, “I’m gonna go up there and get some food.” So, he walked up in his skivvies, was in the kitchen of the Admiral’s quarters, and Admiral’s wife came down and get him a glass of milk because he had a hard time sleeping that evening. She walks in, here's a guy in his skivvies who’s going through her refrigerator looking for food. She screamed, he bolted down the ravine and hid in the ravine for about a day �and a half. Well when the guys found them, they were upset because they were not allowed to go to sleep, they just come back from Vietnam, so they were really kind of gung-ho to do this stuff. They found the guy, worked him over a little bit, threw him in the brig, and because of his opportunity to be in the Admiral’s quarters, he had an opportunity to go back and do another round in Vietnam, because of that. Well that was my involvement with the Marines on the base. It was, we had a good relationship actually. Interviewer: How big was the Marine’s Contingent on the… (22.43) Well let's see there's probably 300 there, yeah. And I'll never forget one time during May of 1970 of all things, during, they called it ‘Mayday.’ And- and our base had a fencing around it and hippies were going to try and invade our property to quote, “show the anti-war thing.” Well I can tell you that the Marines protect us very well and that the hippies never really made it over the fence. Hippies were kind of an interesting group because I had run across them as well when I was at, I had a run the Admiral and his commanding officers and so forth to O'Hare Airport, and one day I was there and standing outside our car, waiting for the Admiral to come out to get in his car to go back to the base. One hippy came up to me and spit on the ground in front of me and started cursing me because of the Vietnam thing and anti-military talk and so forth. So, I saw that more than one time though from the hippies of that era. You know the 60s and early 70s so quite-quite fascinating. My wife had our first baby, our second baby at Great Lakes Naval Hospital, cost us five bucks. It was… and where we were in the base, we'd hear helicopters coming in from medevac, from Vietnam, guys come in for… It was a major hospital, the ninth naval district hospital. And this, so they'd fly and land on the roof of the house, we'd hear them every day, day and night, coming in from Vietnam you know injured people. One day I was �doing staff watch office call, and I got a casualty assistance call from Vietnam. A chief petty officer had died while entertaining a call girl from Vietnam and so I asked my jag officer the, Attorney, Judge Advocate General Officer what should I do? And writing up this report he says well we would just put down he died on, on active duty because then he will get benefits for his family. Because... Interviewer: He was on active duty. (24.40) Yeah. Well he was he died was smile on his face I'm sure. Let's see, what else do I have here? We had inspections the first time I was there, we had a stand in order, ranks in order. I had my dress whites on, my white jumper and so forth and my wife was not really up to speed on how to press and iron the uniforms. Even though I did that she said, “no I'll take care of that for you.” So, during the inspection the commanding officers looked at me and he said, “you've got stains on your collar, not good.” And then she did... the Navy is dressed the- the dress whites. Pants the- the creases are on the side of the pants, not like the front like very good business people would. And so, the crease is wrong and a scorch for my collar and so from that point on she said, “that's it. I'm not doing any more of your stuff, you got to take it to Mary's cleaners across the base at- in North Chicago.” So, from that point on all my inspections were very good for that from that point on, but I learned a lot during the service. Had good relationships with all the people. Understood the value of how we supported the troops over Vietnam through our active duty for training office, our segment of the business. It was quite gratifying for us quite frankly. (25.58) Interviewer: How often did you have to stand inspection? �Once a month, I would have to be usually a Saturday night over Sunday and that was a long shift, but it was in an office. I had a chief petty officer next to me and a lieutenant that would always serve along with me. So, we were just basically doing paperwork from some other contingent within that building because the building actually housed about 300 military and civilian people that actually were the headquarters for the ninth naval district. Basically, covering most of the United States quite frankly. And let's see, what else… Interviewer: Did your office function just on one shift? Or were people processing orders and that kind, on a night shift? No, we're basically a one shift operation. Rare occasion where we had the opportunity to process more paperwork, but it was very rare. You know because we had employees that had to punch in on their timecards, for these were non-military types, and then us we just show up for work on time. (27.03) Interviewer: Well in your office what was a ratio between service people and civiliancivilian employs? I would say out of 35 I think we had about 10 military, and the rest were civilians. It was- back then it was a lot of paper-pushing we did not have computers per se although that we had the first onset of the first internet through the military, but I never worked with that. I worked just basically things with ditto copies and correcting things like that and moving paper from this desk to that desk and then I would get them, and then process the pricing on that, and send it over to the building across the way from us. Which would then actually physically set up the airline tickets and so forth and get the people on their two-week active duty for training. �Interviewer: Would you disperse the cash? Or was that done in another office? We never handled any cash at all, no. It was just strictly a paperwork thing. Get the orders and get him down there and so forth. Interviewer: And that was basically your duties for the… My job. Interviewer: The years and… (28.07) Yeah, I would price it up and I would run a tally of what was being spent and then give that to the commanding officer so that he could provide it to the Admiral on an as-needed basis. One of things I've got to talk about too is the fact that I mentioned that I worked on my master's degree for Roosevelt University of Chicago. I graduated there in January of 72 and during the graduation, Secretary General of the United Nations U. Thant, U period-T-H-A-N-T, was theour guest speaker. And so, I was walking across the stage to get my diploma and I stood a little bit longer with U. Thant and some, afterwards my buddies in the audience said, “why did you take longer than the other people to get your degree?” I said, “well I asked him what the letter ‘u’ meant in his name.” All kidding aside, I had a little fun with that. Interviewer: So, you were able to get your master’s while you were on active duty? (29.03) I did, that was my… and as my mother said, “I never thought you could get a master's degree.” She didn't have that confidence, but I guess when you… you're married and so forth and you're getting into next phase of life. I wanted to go well beyond what I… you know I… Oh one thing, I try to get in the officer corps in the Navy back in 66, just a year after I was joining a reserve, but I found out I was colorblind. I could not tell the difference between red and green and of �course on a ship it’s, you see the buoy red, right, and returning or green. Or if I was on the aircraft carrier it could cause a real calamity if I didn't know the difference between red and green which I did not. So, unfortunately, I had to stay an enlisted guy and that's why I figured if I could not be an officer, which my wife wanted me to stay in the military for 20 years. Then I should do something else and I thought at one time I was going to be a city manager, that's why I took public administration. Only to find out I ended up at Xerox Corporation right after the service. So much for public administration. Interviewer: Now when you were in graduate school, did the Navy provide tuition assistance? How did it work? (30.10) They did they, it was interesting it was $64 a credit hour which I thought was outrageous back then, but they provided 75% of the- the funding for that. And I had to croft out the other 25 which meant I did work at Sears, like I mentioned at night in order to help with that, so I didn't have to leave with a loan at all. And back then there were really no student loans, back then. Interviewer: So, you were a pretty busy guy, your full-time shift at The Great Lakes, working at Sears at night, and I presume your classes were at night. I gotta tell you one thing about the classes, I was the only enlisted guy there. The rest were commanding officers and captains and lieutenants and so forth. Well during my class, I got to know the professor pretty well and what I could expect on the exams. Well one time we took an exam and I aced the exam; I got a hundred percent on it. Well because the rest of them are did so poorly he you set a curve and a bunch of the higher-ranking officers flunked the- the quiz. So, the very next class they looked at me with kind of like this sting in their eyes like how could this �little enlisted guy beat us out of our grade. You know, they'd gone to all these different schools, but I thought I was pretty proud of that, that I could smoke out the officers. Interviewer: How… going to school obviously, did you go in civilian clothes? (31.27) I had the choice, I could go in civilian but usually I walked I, I just came out of work at five o'clock and my classes started at six, so I just stayed in uniform. Interviewer: So, they knew you were a…? Oh yeah, they knew I was one of the kids. Interviewer: Yeah, and that gave you a good sense of satisfaction. It did, I said you know what, I may not be able to be a lifelong officer here, but I can sure beat them in the quizzes. Interviewer: Why did you wife want you to stay in the service? She loved it! She absolutely loved going to commissary and all the things provided for her and so forth. And- and she had no clue about the future you know per se, but she did like… everybody was congenial and- and was good, it was good toward us. And she felt really warm with the friendships we made and that this is really the kind of life she wanted… Interviewer: Okay. And I says, “I'm not gonna be full-time enlisted guy for my entire life.” But she said afterwards, “you should have joined the Naval Reserves.” In retrospect that might have been a good thing because I could have been- been getting some- some retirement benefits from that so… That's water over the dam though, turned out to be just fine afterwards. Interviewer: Okay so your tours winding down, so what ideas did you have? You said you wanted to be a city manager; did you pursue? �I did, I looked at that. There was a city manager from Glencoe, Illinois that was one of my instructors buddy, but he also was a good friend, and we were talking about getting into that kind of job but at that time city manager was making about eight thousand bucks a year, which was twice what I was making in the military and I figured well that’s not a whole lot of money. Until you got into your ten year as a city manager. So, my brother at the time worked at Xerox and he said, “why don’t you interview at Xerox?” So, while I’m on active duty one of my leaves I came to Detroit to interview for a job as a sales rep for Xerox. And eventually got into Xerox, I was told I could start a week after I got out of the military and moved to Lansing, Michigan. They had a spot for me starting the very next week after I got out of the military. So, I stayed with them for 24 years and retired from there. Interviewer: So, you left when you got out of the service that was the end of your service obligation or did you have to stay in the inactive duty for a while? (33.45) No, I hadn't fulfilled all that time from the 2 August 65 until the April 9th of 72. I had enough years. Seven years. Interviewer: Yeah you had you six years. Yeah it was good to stay, good memories about them, I’ll never forget; one time my wife was just about ready to deliver on December 27, 1970. We went to the commissary there was about 400 recruits that are in line and here she was walking down toward the commissary and the chief petty officer says, “gangway let this pregnant lady through.” And so, we had a great meal two days before the baby came. Yeah it was good, oh one other thing about the Navy; officers got a little bit better medical care than we did. In that I had a cavity in my front tooth so when I'm on �base and he says, “well your enlisted guy, so we’ll have to put a silver filling right here in the front tooth.” I said, “what do you give officers?” He says, “well we do porcelain.” So, I had to go off base and spend an extra 20- 30 bucks to get a porcelain filling put in my front tooth because enlisted guys did not get porcelain fillings. Interviewer: Oh really? I thought that was hilarious and now what other things come to mind, I can remember seeing all the graduation ceremonies in front of my office in the summertime, through my window of the recruits that are coming through. And then going on active duty from Great Lakes. It was quitequite nice quite formal. I enjoyed that part of it. Military I had no problem with actually. (35.17) Interviewer: Well now you’re at Great Lakes during the 68 on? Well technically, technically 69 through 72. Interviewer: 69-72 so Vietnam was kind of... I think we made the decision by then to kind of disengage. What was the- what was the feeling on the base about Vietnam and the...? Well we were participants in supporting that and we did not have any quote “disgruntled folks” that would show their faces. Back then that was I was a no- no you never did that even if you felt, I knew a couple guys I worked with that were kind of bent that way. Toward, you know, we shouldn't be in Vietnam, but they never voiced it in front of the commanding officers or anything else, but they never did show any kind of disdain for that at all, because we were full fullblooded military people. Interviewer: Was, was there anything like hey, if you screw up, I’m going to send you to Vietnam kind of mindset there among some of the senior petty officers? (36.21) �No not really, well let's see. In my group because we had to claim a contract for an extra year you stay there- there was never that discussion, because they knew what my contract was. Basically my- my from and to dates on my order to serve there. So, there was no talk about if you don't do this I mean. Interview: Really? Did they, did- I know in the army state side bases would get a levy if they didn’t have, you know they needed so many people in Vietnam with so many MOS’s. Sure. Interview: And if they couldn’t fill that with people finishing training and volunteering to go over or whatever then each base got a- a levy. Oh really. Interviewer: And said, “okay we need X, you know with these MOS’s.” That ever take place there? Never ever, not in those three years I was there, and there was no talk about that either. Interviewer: Of course, yeah, I think being in the Navy as well, and being in an administrative position, I don't think too much, too many administrative things happen in Vietnam in the Navy anyway they… Not that I'm aware of, other than being on ship or yeah, yeah. Interview: So, after Xerox what did you do? Did you stay in the Lansing area the whole time where you were with Xerox? (37.41) No, we moved from Lansing to Jackson, Michigan and I was there until I moved to Rochester, New York in 1980 to go at work at corporate in marketing, and then Xerox being like most big companies, we got rid of 2,000 people one Christmas eve in 1981. And I came to Grand Rapids, �Michigan for the first time and managed the office here at Xerox for several years but remain with them for a total of 24 years. Interview: And then you retired? Now one of my several retirements, yes, from Xerox immediately went to work for a company called Sun Garcon the IT disaster recovery. Going on five years, and then they were sold out to a private hedge fund and then I went to another company as a sales manager there and they werewent out of business after 138 years. So, it seems like every business I started working for and started going out of business. So right now, I teach full-time at Ferris State University in Big Rapids, Michigan. I teach business courses there. Interview: How long have you been teaching? (38.43) I started teaching in 1974 at Jackson Community College my boss at Xerox said, “do you want to teach at college?” I says, “well I've got a master's degree, where at?” He said, “four thousand Cooper Street.” I said, “that's the state prison,” so I taught for five years for the community college but three years at the prison until one day… I oh I gotta rewind the tape a little bit, my first day at the prison I walked into the guard. Interviewer: When was this? It was in 1974. Interviewer: 1974. And I still have my prison ID badge, which cause a little havoc because I had to walk in front of 200 new residents to the prison to get my photo shot before they did. But anyway, the first day I walked to, got on campus in the prison to teach for Jackson Community College. They said, “take all your jewelry and everything off. Just I want your driver's license and your prison ID �badge.” So, I walked in there and the prison said, a guard said to me he said, “well before you go in, I'm gonna have to put this fluorescent dye in your, on your, on your hands,” so he did a letter A here. I said, “what’s that?” “Letter A, look underneath the fluorescent light it shows a letter A.” He said, “well why would you do that?” He says, “well sir” he says, “assume that you're in here and your clothing was acquired.” I'm thinking one and one is two, clothing’s acquired, they found my hand in the hallway. Well I used to teach here, I stopped teaching at the prison after my work hours at Xerox when I had a major fight in my class one day where knives were pulled, blood was drawn, 30 guys were fighting and I called the Dean the next day says “get me off this campus, I do not want to die here.” From that point forward all my colleges, I've taught now at five colleges I never had a problem like at Jackson Community College, it was always better. Interview: Other than the riot in your classroom, how did- how did you feel the students received what you were trying to do? (40.29) It was fascinating, that for them was the cream of the crop to go to college while being as a resident, you're not a prisoner, you're a resident. Because here's the deal back then in 74, state of Michigan with all the fully loaded cost for each of those students, cost us fifteen thousand bucks, the state fifteen thousand bucks per student and I felt that because, here's how I saw if you were going to college in prison you would get up, have breakfast, go work out a little bit, go to the library, study, and go to class. You did not do the laundry, do license plates, or any of the menial stuff. So, this was like the creme de la creme of the population, but you could tell some people were absorbing my business courses and others weren't. I had one guy who's quote “roommate” if you will, this guy was about six foot six his roommate is about five three and he used to cheat on him during the exams and I’d look at this guy he's looking right down in his answers to the �exam. So, this big guy did not want to have a confrontation, so I figured at the end of semester the big guy got a D- and the little guy got an A. To shame for that guy, I never confronted him, although I had the power within the class like a guard to say you go here, you go there. I had a couple guys who were holding hands walking in one day and I said, “look you sit here and you there and don't say a word.” So, I had that power but with regard to having homemade knives in class and that, I was I could, I could have been a victim quite frankly. Interview: Well was there a guard in the classroom when you… No, actually when I fight started, I had a guest speaker in the classroom that was going to take over for me when I went on vacation the next week. We went right out in the hallway when the fight started and there was a guy looked like, like Leave It to Beaver type, no not Leave It to Beaver, Barney Bucks. 90 pounds I says, “we're having a fight in our class.” He started stuttering, “what are you doing.” We went back their classroom, I pointed out that people started and all of a sudden about 12 cops show up and clean out the two guys who were involved in the fight, but that wasn't, he was nearby but not to jump in on the fracas. Interview: Okay so was that your last term teaching there then? There, absolutely yeah and I went back to campus, I kissed the cement on the campus, main campuses thank you lord I’m gonna be alive. Oh, during that time I taught at the prison everybody was framed, they thought I was an attorney walking with a briefcase. You know they wanted to get sprung because they were framed. They got in prison on the wrong circumstances. They were, you know, so I- and he always wanted my phone number and my address at home so they could contact me which they never got, in today's world they could have got it on the internet but back then they couldn't. Interview: Yeah, I don't well, I, they have access to the Internet in prison now? �I have no clue. Interview: I don't think they do. I asked one dumb question the first class I went to, I was trying to find out how long your sentence would be. I says, “on average what does it take to, you know,” I meant to say time, but I didn’t I said, “what does it take to get out of this prison?” A guy said well, “I'll tell you what you jump that fence is about 100 yards to I-94 and you're gone.” It's a dumb question to ask in class. (43.47) Interview: Yeah. Okay so if you could summarize your service time, what- what do you think where your, the- the best part of the experience? I think we had people of the same or equal values that were with us. My colleagues my associates they're my commanding officers. We all had a purpose in mind we knew what our goals had to be. We achieved those goals with no problems in terms of serving our particular assignment within the military, and that was to produce 20,000 orders for people on a yearly basis to get them to train in order to be more effective in support of our, of the United States. So, I think we had a good focus is it- it was actually like a family environment, because when you were there for three years you were not going to be there for two weeks and then take off. Everybody got to know you. In fact, I was looking at my farewell cards for my party, goingaway party that the civilians and the officers gave, and I had like a couple hundred people sign this thing, it was like amazing that they knew me, and I knew them. It was a, it was a nice family environment, very different than my buddies who went on active duty in Vietnam and so forth. Very, very different. (44.59) Interview: Okay and flip the coin over, what was the worst part of the experience? �Well the worst part honestly, it was unrelated to the military. Is the fact that I was not in the workplace working, well as my quote “buddies” who did who got out because they had maybe knee surgery or something and they're making money, and I was making maybe four thousand bucks a year, at the end of three years and they were making twelve thousand dollars and I told my wife I said, “you know I don't know what it ever be like to make twenty five thousand dollars a year.” You know and say, “yeah well twenty, we could live in a mansion.” You know so I had that in the front of my mind all the time. Yeah. Interviewer: Okay well I'd like to thank you for spending time with us and sharing your story. It was very, very interesting. (45.40) It's a bit of pleasure to be with you today. And I’d like to say hello to all my military buddies out there, ex-military buddies. Interviewer: Let's hope they watch it. I hope so too. Interviewer: Thank you. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_TrybusC1471V Title A name given to the resource Trybus, Chester (Interview transcript and video), 2013 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-01-03 Description An account of the resource Chet Trybus was born on March 16, 1945 in Highland Park, Michigan. Trybus was attending Henry Ford Community College in 1965 when he received a draft notice. Wanting to continue his education, he opted to join the Navy Reserves and was sent to Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois, for Boot Camp. While in the Naval Reserves, Trybus was able to continue his education at Western Michigan University since there was a Reserve station in Kalamazoo. After completing his degree, he was stationed at Great Lakes processing recruitment orders as part of his active duty. Since he was stationed in the U.S, Trybus was able to pursue his master's degree while on active duty. He eventually left the service in 1972 and took up work for the Xerox Corporation in Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Trybus, Chester Joseph Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy. Naval Reserve Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ac620a5c7458838907cdf2c4de25efa2.mp4 65bbdadab15fe252a907d1a461d01c47 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f9c7fd9c34c5084e06cee08ba358552.pdf 8c174e21af3ec005d8999fbb401aecff PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Dave Thrasher Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with Dave Thrasher of Grand Rapids, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project. Okay, Dave, start us off on some background on yourself, and to begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: I was born on the 19th of May in 1953 in Detroit, Michigan. Interviewer: Okay, and did you grow up in Detroit, or did you move around? Veteran: We spent—I spent my first seven years in Detroit. When I was 3, my father passed away, and then at 7, my mom remarried and then we moved to Iron Mountain, Michigan, because that’s where he was from. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And we were up there until I was 10, because unlike what people think today, businesses were moving out of this country even back then. The only two businesses in that area were the foundry and the Ford plant and they both moved to Canada. So, my stepdad moved back to Detroit once he found a job. We relocated back there until I went in the service. Interviewer: Okay. And did you graduate from high school? Veteran: Yes, I graduated from Holy Redeemer High School in Detroit, Michigan. Interviewer: In what year? �Veteran: 1971. Interviewer: Okay. And then what did you do after you got out of high school? Veteran: I went to work at Cadillac Body Plant, Detroit, Michigan. Interviewer: Okay, now you’re doing this at a time when the Vietnam War is going on, and there’s a draft going on. How much attention were you paying to that? Veteran: I paid quite a bit because I had several cousins that were over there. I basically come from a military family. And—in fact, at that time I had 5 cousins that were actually in country. (00:02:08) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, I did pay a lot of attention. Interviewer: Alright. And did you consider at that point just going ahead and enlisting, or were you just going to take your chances and see what happened? Veteran: At that point, it was—I was kind of undecided. Having the military family background, you know, one side of me is thinking but I am also thinking, you know, I do have some relatives over there…Maybe I should wait. But, then when the last draft lottery had me going anyway, I sat down and thought about it and talked with my stepdad, and we figured that you know, if I am going in, I might as well do it myself so there’s—I can get something out of it. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Not just be a grunt for two years. Interviewer: Alright. So, when did you make that decision? �Veteran: I actually made that decision in November of ’72. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then I was still working at the factory at that time, and I started the process of going on a leave of absence. Then I spoke with all four service recruiters, and the Marine Corps recruiter was the most fair of the bunch. Interviewer: Okay, and what do you mean by that? Veteran: He didn’t try to sell a bill of goods like a used car salesman. He basically asked me a few questions, he asked me if, you know, if I had any family in the military. I told him yes. He didn’t ask specifics. And he pulled out information on the Marine Air Wing and the Marine groundside and had me go through it. He said if you have any questions, ask. And then, so I told him I would like to go in the Air Wing and he says the only thing I can do is I can guarantee you the Air Wing on the contract. What job you end up with is entirely up to you. You have to earn it. (00:04:07) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So that’s what did it. Interviewer: Alright. But you can go in knowing at that point that you’re not going to be a ground pounder at least. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Okay, alright. So, you’ve signed up. Now, when do you actually start training? �Veteran: Well I actually took the oath in the Marine Corps Reserves on the 30th of April, 1973. That gave me time to get my family—home situation taken care of, my stuff in storage and all that. And I actually went to bootcamp on the 9th of July, 1973. Interviewer: Okay, and where did you go for that training? Veteran: Marine Corps Recruit Training Depot San Diego, California. Interviewer: Alright, now how did they get you out there? Veteran: They flew us from the Detroit Metro. We flew nonstop from Detroit to LA, and then there was a connecting flight from LA to San Diego. And then when we got off the plane, there’s a bus waiting for us that took us right to bootcamp. Interviewer: Okay, and what time of day did you show up? Veteran: I put my feet on those yellow footprints at what the military would say 0 dark 30 in the morning. It was like 3 in the morning. Interviewer: Okay, because that does seem to be a tradition that they have, to bring people in in the middle of the night. Veteran: Sometimes… Interviewer: Well, at least, it had been in the Vietnam era generally. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Almost everyone I’ve talked to did. �Veteran: I think part of that, especially during Vietnam, was, I think, because it was so much anti…They wanted to avoid issues. Let’s get them in quietly and get things going so they don’t have to deal with all the outside influence. Interviewer: Alright, so what happens to you now? You arrive, the bus pulls into the depot, now what happens? Veteran: You get your first indoctrination to the drill instructor. When this Sergeant or Staff Sergeant, in some cases Corporal, comes on board and basically if you’ve ever seen movies like The D.I. or Tribe where they come on and start yelling, yes they do. And you’re on the yellow foot prints, and they do a head count and they make sure everybody showed up, that nobody disappeared. And then they take you to the barracks. That early in the morning, they just take you to the barracks. And then, come about 8 o’clock the next morning, everything starts. You get started fitting for your uniforms, you form up your platoon, because they have a starting number, then four platoons form into a series, and then you have three series. You have a first, second, and third series. And what they do is, it’s teaching you working together but it’s also teaching you competition because each platoon competes against each other. (00:06:50) Interviewer: Mhmm. Now, how much time do they spend just with the processing stuff? Veteran: It’s kind of an ongoing thing, because they start your physical training and they kind of mix it in in the early days, so you’re not just doing all one thing at a time. They’re trying to get you rounded into the military way of life. Interviewer: Okay. But there’s the head shaving and are there— Veteran: Oh, that’s all, that’s immediately that first morning. �Interviewer: Yep, okay. Now, did they have you take tests and things at this point? Veteran: Yes. And what they do is based on those tests is where they will place you when you leave bootcamp. And it doesn’t matter whether it’s groundside or Air Wing, the test will give them kind of a starting point. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and okay so, and then they’re getting you—they get you past all the hair cutting and uniforms and this kind of thing. What does the bootcamp then consist of? Veteran: Well, it consists of physical training. It consists of rifle qualifications because Marine policy: every Marine is a rifleman. Rifle qualifications, they teach you how to defend yourself. They have what’s called pugil sticks that’s teaching you how to use the rifle as a bayonet, with the bayonet on it. They teach that stuff because the first they’re going to tell you is: I am training you to come home. Marine Corps has always had this policy, as small as an organization as it is, we don’t want you dying for your country, let the enemy die for his. You come home. So, one of the theories was that drill instructors were so hard that you’d survive, or when you got in combat, you’d take it out on the enemy what the drill instructor did to you. But it was all designed to keep you as safe as possible. Get you through as much as they can, both physical and mental, to prepare you for what might happen. It may not happen, but they wanted to prepare you as much as they could. (00:09:01) Interviewer: Okay. And how did they go about instilling discipline? Veteran: Marching. If you messed up, then you did push-ups. Or, if it was a platoon thing, you might go out and do, instead of a 3-mile run, maybe it’s a 6-mile run. Something that—what they would do is if one person messed up, there were times they would punish the whole platoon. And �it wasn’t for you to gang up on the one guy, it was to maybe help him get better or maybe this guy needed—I mean, we started out as a platoon of 72, and at some point, at one point, we were down to only 60. Guys had either dropped out or things happened, some good, some not so good. Interviewer: Would some people get hurt, just in the process? Veteran: Yes, that does happen. It’s not as common as what like the news media would try and portray. I am not talking public broadcasting, but back then of course, there was more antimilitary. So, anytime anything happened, it would make it bigger news than what it probably was. But you also had the case, we had one guy in our platoon was the only one in the whole series pre-qual date, to go unqualified. And when he was confronted in front of the squad bay, he basically told the drill instructor that that’s not why God sent him, he sent him to join the Marine Corps to change their evil ways. And then, we never saw that guy again. We don’t know what it—but the drill instructor figured there’s definitely something not right up there, and they— that’s one of the things they’re trying to weed out. You know, you don’t want somebody that’s got problems like that. I mean, it could develop later on, but here this guy is starting this right away so. Whether he was admin discharged or whether maybe he was sent for some reviews and then maybe come to another unit later, I don’t know. They don’t really tell us those things. (00:11:11) Interviewer: Okay, now did you pick up anybody along the way who would maybe cause trouble early then get out— Veteran: Yeah, yeah we actually had a gentleman join our unit. He had gone UA. He had actually left the base in the middle of his training. He had actually gone back home and was living there. Had actually gotten married. And he sat down one day and realized, you know, one �of these days, they’re going to catch me, and then I’m going to be in jail. So, he talked to his wife, his parents, her parents, and decided to come back. So, after he came back, they reviewed the case. I mean, he came right back to the base and turned himself in. They reviewed the case, they interviewed him and he—and they let him finish bootcamp, and he joined the platoon I was in because that’s where we were training when he left. And from what I gathered, he spent another 15 years in the Marine Corps. (00:12:07) Interviewer: Alright. Now, how long did the bootcamp last? Veteran: Mine lasted 94 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes, and 30 seconds. We actually lasted a few days longer because during that time, it was hard to get recruits because of the anti-war movement. So, we actually spent an extra 4 days, and the rest of it was just basically from the time we landed on the yellow footprints to the time they put us on the bus to take us to the airport. Interviewer: Okay. How long did it take you to adjust to life in the military? Veteran: It did not take me as long as some others. But I did have family background from the military so it made it a little bit easier. Interviewer: Okay. And were you in good physical shape when you went in? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. So, you could survive the physical training and… Veteran: Yes, the—especially the running part. Because part of the PFT test is you had to do a minimum of 3 pull-ups, 40 sit-ups, and you had to run the 3 miles in 28 minutes. The catch to that was, the Marine Corps was smart, they don’t want you doing the minimums. So, if you— �they did a point system. And if you did just the minimums, you didn’t pass. They wanted you to put out effort. They don’t want you just to get by. The running part wasn’t a problem because I ran track in high school. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and I guess during Vietnam, much of the time there was sort of an 8-week bootcamp, and then they would send people off to Camp Pendleton or whatever training they were doing. Now, yours lasted more like 90 days. So, what are they doing? Did you spend some time at Camp Pendleton as well? Veteran: Yes. One, that’s where the rifle range is. And two, that’s where they did some of the war games type things between the different platoons. One platoon would be the unit on defense, the other would be the aggressor and that’s what they would do, and then you’d go back to San Diego. (00:14:08) Interviewer: Okay. Now at this point were you training, you had people who were heading for the Air Wing as well as the Ground Wing, and you’re basically just all together at that point, all doing the same thing? Veteran: Correct. Interviewer: Okay. Now once you complete that training, what do they do with you next? Veteran: Well, once you’ve graduated, of course in quite a few of our cases, there was quite a few of us from the Detroit area, and the only flight going out that day was almost immediately after bootcamp. So, our gear was put on the buses at like 5 in the morning. And as soon as the graduation was over, we were put on the bus and home. You were given 10 days of leave before you report to your next duty station. So, the flight went from San Diego to Chicago, and once I �got to Chicago, I was finally able to let my folks know I was coming home. I actually beat them to the Detroit airport from Chicago. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then from there after the 10 days leave, you report to your next duty station. In my case, I had qualified high enough to go into the avionics field, aviation electronics. So, my next duty station would have been NAS Millington, Tennessee. Interviewer: Okay. And what did you do there? Veteran: There, I went through what they call AFAM and AMFA, that’s air frame fundamentals and began to learn the basics about airplanes. They don’t assume you know anything, they start you at the beginning. And then I went through basic electrician and electronics schools, and then I went through aviation electronics class A. Interviewer: Okay. And how long did these schools add up to? Veteran: I reported there the second week of October of ’73, and I left in May of ’74. Interviewer: Okay, so you got like a 7-months, or 6-7 months, okay, at that time. Now, what’s life like while you’re in these training schools? Veteran: One, the first couple weeks there, you’re on Cinderella liberty. It doesn’t matter if your school has started, or you’re waiting for the class to start, Cinderella liberty meant you had to be in by midnight. Literally, or you were in trouble. And basically, that was just to make sure—they kind of, you kind of got acclimated to the area. The other thing is, is you still had all this stuff to do in your barracks: the field days, the cleaning, the morning inspections and all that. So, most of the time you’re getting up about 5 in the morning, going to get breakfast, getting yourself ready. �If you’re somebody like me who has a thick beard, a lot of times I was shaving twice a day to get past—through the inspections in the morning, and then the class inspection at 1300. And then you would go to class. And then of course, during those school times, you don’t go like to the rifle range or anything like that, because they want you to get the education they’re paying you for—they’re paying for. Get you educated so they can get you out into the fleet. (00:17:05) Interviewer: Okay. And what kind of mix of people were you training alongside? Veteran: I don’t know, they were all green. One thing our drill instructor told us in bootcamp, he says you’re not white, you’re not black, you’re not orange, you’re not purple. You’re green, all Marines are green. We had people from all over. In fact, there were people from other countries, and the classes weren’t just Marines. There were also Navy. So, there were blue people too. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and did you get a sense of, you know, kind of just their backgrounds? Did you have people who had been to college or things like that? Or were they all pretty much young? Veteran: We had high school drop outs, we had college graduates, we had high school graduates, we had some that had had some college time. Then there was some that were like me, I graduated high school and worked in a factory for two years, and then there were people that had worked in offices. There was, it was definitely a mixture, (00:18:06) Interviewer: Okay. Now, was all of your training geared toward fixed-wing aircraft? Or was it adaptable for helicopters or…? Veteran: What it is is the schooling you go through in Memphis, whether it be, whether you’re going Navy or Marine, it was based—to get you all the basics, so that you could work either �way. And then once you got out into the fleet, Marine force or into the fleet Navy, there they would give you your basics schools for whichever type aircraft you ended up with. Interviewer: Okay. So, you’re spending this 6-months plus doing this, and you still really don’t know what you’re going to do or where you’re going to go? Veteran: Correct. Interviewer: Okay. Now, once you’ve been there in the schools for a while, I guess you could get beyond the Cinderella liberty stage, so you can go off base a little more and do more things. Did you spend much time off base? Veteran: Yes, I did. One thing I learned from my relatives that were in the service, and one thing I learned the first couple weeks there, I would hear these guys “oh, there’s nothing to do here” because Millington is kind of a little ways from Memphis, it’s kind of out in the country because it is an airfield, military airfield. And I would hear that and I’m like wait a minute. Memphis is down there. There is a history in that. So, every chance I got—in fact, third day in, I actually got 24-hour liberty. Third day, the third day we were there, they—we held formation and they brought us into the classroom, because we hadn’t started classes yet, and they asked for volunteers to go into town to the Baptist hospital to donate blood. Well, three of us did. After we did, they told us the duty vehicle is downstairs and you don’t have to be back until 8 o’clock the next morning. Then of course everybody wanted to volunteer, but it was too late. So, I took advantage any time I went, I could go into town. I went to Memphis a lot of times, just to see it. It was some place I had never been before. (00:20:02) Interviewer: Okay. I mean, did you go listen to music or…? �Veteran: Sometimes I’d go to the bar, just like anybody else, sometimes I’d go to listen to—I’d go to different bars because you’d get a different, you’d get the Memphis beat, you’d get country, you go to this bar and it’s rock and roll, this one over here was more the acid rock, there was a little bit of everything you could find down there. Interviewer: Okay, so you took advantage of that. Now, did you ever have your own car down there or did you just…? Veteran: No, I did not. Interviewer: You just used whatever transport was available. Veteran: Yep. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now you—anything else about that experience in Millington that kind of stands out for you? Veteran: Not that I can think of, just it was an experience. You are getting an education and meet a lot of different people. We’ve—we met, like the story with the guy in bootcamp, we had some incidents down there of things like that. And I am thinking at that point, it’s like you’re already through bootcamp, how can this be any worse? But I didn’t understand it, but I think part of that was family background with military, I didn’t think it was that bad. Interviewer: Alright. So now what’s your first duty station? Veteran: My first, well what happened was— Interviewer: What did you do next? Veteran: Once we grad—completed schools, and of course everybody, like the class I was in, the class that the guys for hydraulics was in, we didn’t necessarily finish at the same time, so some �of the guys I had went to bootcamp with and some of the guys I was there in Memphis with, either had already left or were still there when I left. So, I left in May. I was actually on leave, went home, attended an uncle’s funeral, and then reported to Cherry Point Marine Corps Airbase, North Carolina for school, class assignments for what I was going to end up with. When I was there, the actual orders they had for me were for jets, but the orders were already overdue, so I couldn’t take them. So, I got to spend about 4 days there until new sets of orders came in. They called me in, and I was one of the rare ones that lucked out, they says “Well, we’ve got a set of orders you can have for the EA6 or a set of orders for the CH-46.” Well, I knew what an EA-6 was, but I had never heard of a 46. And they said it was a helicopter. That sounded more interesting so I took those. (00:22:26) Interviewer: You know the 46, that’s a helicopter they have used in Vietnam pretty much the whole way through. Veteran: Quite extensively. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And so, then the orders were cut and I left Cherry Point to report to Marine Corps Air Station New River, helicopter, which is down by Camp Lejeune. Interviewer: Okay, so you’re in North Carolina. Okay, so now kind of describe what you do there? Veteran: When I, I reported into what they call TME-22, that’s training group. Once you’re there, then they assign you to different squadrons. And most of the time, you’d be assigned to the training squadron, it’s called HMT-204, and there you would train on the aircraft. Now when I first went in, basically if you were an avionics man or an aviation electrician, in the helicopter �community, you were basically—it was basically open. You could train on the 46, but according to the regulations, you could work on the 46, the 53, the Huey, the Cobra, the OV-10, the C-130, the C-117 aircraft. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: The helicopters and the three fixed-wing were prop, not jets. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: It was more of an open, because even though the 46 was so extensively used in Vietnam, helicopters were still kind of common, common ground. So, I joined that squadron for training. Upon complete—now that was in May of ’74, I completed that training in September. And I was reassigned back to that squadron, permanent personnel, so now I’ve done it. I’ve made it through all my schools, I am now in the fleet. (00:24:07) Interviewer: Alright. But you were assigned to a training squadron? Or is this…? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Because even though it’s, primarily, training is for the crew chiefs, the pilots, that type of thing. Because when you first go to that training school, you don’t necessarily end up there. You could have ended up in—I could have ended up in one of the 53 outfits, because you have two groups there. You have Marine Aircraft Group 26 and you have Marine Aircraft Group 29, and they both have, basically they’re mirrors of each other, so if one group had to go off, you still had something there. �Interviewer: Mhmm. And in the mean-time though, you have the pilots and the air crew there, there is still training all the time. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And you are maintaining the aircraft. Veteran: Correct. Interviewer: Okay. And so how long did you stay there? Veteran: I was actually…The one thing you kind of get used to, once you get in the fleet, sooner or later, you’re going to end up either on guard duty or mess duty, and that’s a 30-day detail. So, in Octo—I only joined the unit permanent in September. Of course, October, I went on guard duty. Third week I was on guard duty, I got called from the barracks to report to S-1. They handed me a set of orders for Kaneohe Marine Air Station, Hawaii. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, I took the month of November off. Took—they gave me 30 days leave, and then fly over there. So, went home, spent it with the family, and a little side not, I ran into somebody I had met in high school. We kind of went downtown together to kind of do the Christmas thing, like through J.L. Hudson’s, I don’t know if you’re familiar with them? Interviewer: Hudson’s was still there when I first moved to Michigan, yep. Veteran: Yeah, well they had that big store downtown where everything was on different floors, and all decorated for the holidays, especially now that they’re getting ready for the Christmas parade and all that. And the young lady I was with, we sat down for lunch and she was talking about—we had met in high school—and she was talking about how she had been on vacation in �Maine, visiting her aunt and uncle, and she—we hadn’t seen each other since high school, we get to talking together. And she thought, asked me if I knew any good place to go for vacation. So, I told her, “Why don’t you go to Hawaii.” And she asked me why and I told her this exactly, I said “Well, I’ll be there, that seems like a good reason.” She later became my wife, my better half. (00:26:34) Interviewer: Alright. Okay, so when you do go out to Hawaii, now are you basically a helicopter mechanic or…? Veteran: Yeah, helicopter aviation electronics. And when I got there, I was, because the squadron had a shortage of personnel because they just had a big turn over, I ended up in a 53 squadron, HMH-463. Interviewer: Okay, just—what’s the difference between the 46 and the 53? Veteran: 46 is a medium range, medium weight helicopter, it has the tandem rotors. CH-53 is a heavy-duty helicopter, it has 6, the alphas and deltas which I started on, had 6 main rotor blades, 4 tail blades, and it could carry an external load of about 20,000 pounds, and it could carry 33 combat troops inside. It was a lot bigger. A lot more powerful. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. But you were familiar with those from your training already? Veteran: Well, the electronics were a lot similar. Especially the electronic side with the radios, navigational, and all that. Electrical, you had to learn a little more, because the wiring systems and stuff was a little bit different. And they actually sent me back to school for that. So, I got to the squadron in December, 1974. Got there about the middle of the month. Had my first green Christmas there, which was really weird. Growing up in Michigan, Christmases were always �white. Here you are in Hawaii and it’s like 65 degrees out, you know, on the windward side of the island. (00:28:12) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and then kind of—so you said they sent you to school, did you do your schooling there? Veteran: No, they sent me to—back then it was called Santa Ana Marine Corps Base in California. But, and then it was called Tustin, but now it’s closed down. But yeah, I went there for the school. They actually had schools at Tustin and El Toro. And I went through the school, and basically, it was electrician’s school. Because I already had the common av part down, but if I am going to be working, you got to be able to repair the wiring too. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, I had just finished school and got recalled back to the squadron. Interviewer: Okay, and so when was that? Veteran: That would have been in March, the first week of March in 1975. Interviewer: Okay. Things are starting to get pretty interesting in Southeast Asia by then. Veteran: Yes. That’s why I got recalled. In fact, guys that were on leave were all showing up back. And I reported back to my shop, and the first thing the NC of the shop did was say “don’t unpack.” Interviewer: So, now what happens to you? Veteran: At the end of the month, they put us on board the USS Hancock, which was on her way from San Diego, and we headed towards the Philippines. The only problem is, I had to call home and have my folks tell my girlfriend that, not to come out. I might not be here. And my mom �asked me where I was going. I said “Well, we got orders to the Philippines.” She, the first thing she asked me was, “Is that near Vietnam?” I said, “Nope.” I didn’t know how close it was really but I wasn’t going to say anything to her. We had hunches, but nobody knew for sure. So, they put us aboard the USS Hancock, an old World War 2 aircraft carrier. We left from Hawaii, we sailed to the Philippines. When we got to the Philippines, of course we got liberty for a couple days while the Navy offloaded. They offloaded all the jets. We had 16 CH-53s, and they added some 46s, some Hueys, some Cobras, from Okinawa, just for support. And from there, once we set sail, nobody knew nothing until all of a sudden, we got orders to Cambodia for Operation Eagle Pull. (00:30:36) Interviewer: Okay, and what was that? Veteran: The evacuation of Cambodia. Interviewer: Okay, and who was being evacuated? Veteran: Americans, Canadians, Australians, any Cambodians that were working with those forces. Interviewer: Okay. Now, so basically, how did that process work? What happened? Veteran: We basically—the helicopters launched, we flew in, had specific landing places, landed, picked up these people, and brought them out. And then the last ones of course, once we were down to the finals, the last would have been the embassy staff and the Marine embassy guards. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you fly or did you stay on the ship? Veteran: I stayed on the ship. We had to keep them running. �Interviewer: Alright, now in that operation, did any of the helicopters get shot at or have any damage? Veteran: No. Actually, what was surprising was how concise that operation went. It was very smooth by military standards. We went in, we got the job done, and we pretty much left. Interviewer: How long did that take? Veteran: Just the one day. Interviewer: Okay. And did you, kind of, see the people getting off or…? Veteran: Not too much, because most of them were flown to, like, the command ship, the Blue Ridge, and other ships. None were brought to the carriers. That we were on, anyway. Interviewer: Okay. So, the helicopters could go and they could drop people off on other ships and then come back to your ship for servicing basically. Veteran: Oh yeah. Yes. (00:32:09) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so that was sort of the first adventure. And that’s, was that still in March or are we in April? Veteran: We are in April. Interviewer: Okay, alright. Veteran: April 12th. Interviewer: And in April, now the North Vietnamese have begun their final offensive in the South Vietnam. So, after April 12th, now what do you do? �Veteran: Well, the ship got orders for liberty. We pulled into Singapore. Supposedly, according to the ship’s captain, we pulled in, it was supposed to be 10 days of liberty. Two and a half days later, things kind of went south in Vietnam. So they ordered the fleet up, so we had to—they had to recall people from liberty and get the—in fact, they actually had to—those that got left behind, Navy, Marines, and that, because they couldn’t wait, they had to get going by orders of the fleet admiral. What they did was they flew aircraft in to recover them and then they flew back out to the ships. Because it was kind of unexpected. Interviewer: Okay. So, it got—continue the story now. So, the ship heads back up to Vietnam? Veteran: Now we’re heading up towards the coast. It’s one of those situations, the rumors are flying like crazy. I mean, you’re hearing all kinds of stories, and most of us are just kind of like…Well, our gunny was pretty good about it, the NCIC of the shop, he basically says “Hey, you’re going to hear rumors galore. Just do your job and once we get official word, then we will make sure it gets passed to everybody.” And most of the guys just took it that way. Interviewer: Well, what kind of rumors were floating around? Veteran: Oh, there were…It’s hard to remember pretty much, but basically like “Oh, South Vietnam’s been attacked.” Or “Oh, we are having to arm the birds because this is no longer an evacuation. We are going back in.” Or, you know, there was all kinds of things. (00:34:13) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then there was some people saying “Oh, we are not even going there, we are going somewhere else.” Or something like that. I am kind of like “I’ll just wait until he tells me.” Because like I said, it wasn’t just Marines, the Navy had all kinds of stories. “Oh, we are going �back to the Philippines. You guys are going back to the Philippines and we are taking our jets back because we have to go.” Okay. I don’t remember all of the specifics anymore, because that was quite a while ago. Interviewer: Sure. Okay, and then how quickly does stuff start happening? Are you sending helicopters in right away or do you get a while? Veteran: No. No, the ambassador kept talking with the president. Kept saying “not yet” because things were starting to get—because he didn’t, he really didn’t want to end it. He wanted to continue to support the South Vietnamese people. I’ll give him that one. Finally, on the 30th of April, and we’ve been off the coast, President Ford made the command decision: launch the Marine helicopters. He did not have to have permission because, anybody who knows history knows the military was divided. The President of the United States controls the Marine Corps, Congress controls the Army and Navy, now plus the Air Force. And that was something started by our founding fathers, because they saw where someone had total control of the military, sooner or late it’s a dictatorship. And they didn’t want that. So, he can send in the Marines immediately before convening with Congress, so at least get the ball rolling. So, we got our orders at like 3 in the morning to get the aircraft ready for launch. And as soon as the sun come up, we started launching. By then, he had met with Congress, and now the Navy is also launching, and then you got the huge Air Force transports. We couldn’t use them for very long, though. Because shortly after we launched our first wave, we actually did come under some fire, because the North Vietnamese army was already at the international airport. That’s why in the movies and in the videos, you always see them landing in parking lots, on top of hotels, on top of the embassy, because we couldn’t use the airport. We had to do what we could as fast as we could. (00:36:36) �Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, we always thanked the President for not dilly dallying. Interviewer: Yep, okay. So, now I was going to say, is your duty essentially the same as it was for Cambodia? You’re on the ship? Veteran: I am actually on the flight deck. Me and one other avionics man. We have what they call a cruise box full of parts and equipment. And as the planes come in, they would announce “Avionics needed on spot 7.” We’d grab our tools, get over there, get it fixed, so it could launch. There’d be hydraulics men, metalsmiths, everything. Interviewer: Okay. And so now, did some of these helicopters come back with battle damage? Or were they… Veteran: There were a few that did have some bullet holes and that. Not very many but there was the occasional, I would say pot shots from the South—North Vietnamese army. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did they follow the same procedure as Cambodia? They would offload elsewhere, did they bring them back out? Veteran: No, they offloaded wherever they could because things really started happening so fast. In fact, we actually had Vietnamese pilots landing on our ship. They had never landed at sea before, so it got interesting. You know, they’re coming in in old 47s, and old Hueys that were left behind for them when we pulled out in ’73. And the only problem was, we had no room for them. So, after they would land, we would help them offload, and then we were pushing the planes out, those aircraft, out to the water to make room for ours. (00:38:07) �Interviewer: Alright. And what impression did you have of the people being evacuated? Did you see them at all? Veteran: I saw a lot of them, and a lot of them, as soon as they’d see you—because of course they were thanking all of the people for getting them out, because unlike Cambodia where the average, of course we didn’t know that at the time, but the average person wasn’t as effected as they were in Vietnam. So, a lot of these people, if they even associated with foreigners, they were possibly going to be executed. So, they were happy. They were glad. They were sad because they were leaving, because that’s their homes. But they were also looking at the other side, they were looking at both sides of the coin, basically. They didn’t want to leave home, but they knew if they stayed…who knows what might have happened to them. Interviewer: Okay. And was this basically a one-day operation? Veteran: It was basically about a 24-hour operation, but it was kind of hectic because we are flying in and, in fact, the captain of our ship—I overheard this conversation—he was being asked, they would keep seeing helicopters load. They would, when they would land, they would reload, restock. Well, they were also restocking with ammo because we all, we carried it. We didn’t know. But of course, we were under orders not to fire. And there were some news media on board some of the ships, and they actually questioned the captain of the ship and he told them, he says “Hey, those helicopters are designed to carry 33 combat troops. We are averaging about 100 Vietnamese people. We are having to throw stuff over the side to make room for these people. We are going to get as many people out as we can.” And then basically, that’s what was going on. On some of those aircraft, we did. We had over 100 Vietnamese men, women, and children on board. Because we were going to do our best to get as many that wanted out of there as they could have happen. (00:40:19) �Interviewer: Okay. And then once that 24-hours sort of concludes, what happens next? Veteran: Okay, now it’s in the middle of the night, we are starting to wrap things up. Come daylight, we are going to be heading out. That’s the orders. Though, we were having to wait because we still had one of the 46s in the air that was flying search and rescue missions, SAR, and they got a radio call from the embassy: the Marines were still there. So, we had to launch, do a hurry up launch to go get them. They kind of got, they were still doing the normal stuff of destroying documents and all that, and they kind of got missed. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: But we did get in, we did get them, and bring them back out. Interviewer: So, there is one last bunch there longer than they were supposed to be. But then, the North Vietnamese didn’t come in and…? Veteran: They were actually at the doors to the embassy when we landed. I don’t think they knew anybody was in there. And if they did, they hadn’t actually come in yet. But of course they were going to go through and tear it up and…that was their whole plan. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: I don’t know if they knew the Marines were still there or not but we didn’t wait, we got them out. Interviewer: Okay. Where do you go then from there? Veteran: From there, our ship first had orders, the captain of the ship first got orders ‘cause of Mayaguez (reference to the seizure of the cargo ship Mayaguez by the Khmer Rouge off the Cambodian coastline). The captain had to contact the fleet admiral. He says, “Ah, what do I do �with the almost 3000 Vietnamese refugees I’ve got on board?” So, they had to reassign that mission. So, we headed for the Philippines. Once in the Philippines, we offloaded all of the refugees. (00:42:08) Interviewer: Okay. And now, does—you stay with the fleet? Or do you go back to Hawaii? Veteran: Now, what they are going to do instead is they are going to send us back to Hawaii. So, they offloaded our aircraft off of the Hancock, and they put us onboard the USS Enterprise to go home, because she was on her way back to San Diego. The Hancock would be staying out there as part of the Pacific deployment. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, we get to ride the Enterprise back home. Interviewer: Okay, and what vintage was this version of the Enterprise? Veteran: This was the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier. She was made in 1959, but she was still the queen of the fleet, believe me. Interviewer: Now, does that mean you have better quality accommodations or anything else? Veteran: Oh yes. A lot better. And it’s nothing against the Hancock, she was just older. She was—she served in World War 2, Korea, and Vietnam. CVA-19, and you figure we are up to like 79 now, so she was kind of old. Interviewer: Okay. And then you go back to Hawaii and you go back to your base and back to your regular squadron? �Veteran: Yes. Yes, in fact we did a fly off from the Enterprise because she wasn’t stopping in Hawaii, she wasn’t going to be stopping at Pearl, she was going straight home. They had been out at sea for almost a year. And these guys wanted to get home. So, we did a fly off. And when we landed, the base has this grade school. So, as we landed, and they put us in formation, the students from the grade school were there and they come out and each one put a lei around, the traditional Hawaiian greeting, each one of us that came back. So, that was kind of nice. And then, they had customs set up right there in the hanger, and then it was liberty. Interviewer: Okay. And then how long did you wind up staying in Hawaii? (00:44:05) Veteran: I was there from December of ’74 through December of ’77. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did your girlfriend ever get to come out and visit? Veteran: Yes, she finally come out in June of ’75. And at 10:30 in the morning, on the 27th of June, on top of Nuuanu Pali Lookout, I asked her to marry me. Interviewer: I guess that worked. Veteran: Well, she’s put up with me for 43, almost 43 years now. Interviewer: Okay. Now, then, did she stay out there with you or…? Veteran: No, she didn’t stay out, she went back home because of course to break the news to the families and get things ready. And I actually took leave in September of ’75, went back, and we got married there so the families. Interviewer: Okay. And then you just had a little bit more time left in Hawaii. Did she come back out at that point? �Veteran: Yes, she come back out. And then once I was promoted to Corporal, I was able to apply for a company tour, have my family with me. And that added the year. I would have left the island in ’76, but that added one more year because I had my family with me. So, I got—I stayed an extra year. Interviewer: Okay. Now, do you stay with the same unit or…? Veteran: Pretty much. Now, I did have to—I did go on a temporary duty to Okinawa for—from July of ’77 to November of ’77. There was a bunch of us. They were short of personnel. And one of the squadrons was being retired, so they kind of just pulled people. There was some of us that came from Hawaii, some of us came from Tustin Marine Corps Airbase there. Go over and help get those aircraft ready to retire. And during that time, we also had joined war games with a Philippines defense force that were down in the Philippines doing…Playing war games. (00:46:00) Interviewer: Okay. And what kind of impression did you have of Okinawa? Veteran: I actually liked it there. The first time I was there, it was, of course aside from the Philippines, I had never been anywhere but Canada my entire life. Growing up in Detroit, Canada was like a suburb. Because it was actually easier to get to Canada than it was to get to some of the suburbs. To me, I tried to, just like in Hawaii, I’d go traveling around the island. Go visiting. Okinawa, same thing. We were at Futenma, down at the southern part of the island. The whole island is like only 66 miles long. And you didn’t need to have a car or nothing. So, we’d— I’d walk all over the place, just to see it. Interviewer: And how did people there seem to view you, or treat the Americans? �Veteran: Most—when you got away from the actual base, because you always got, I don’t care what military base you go to where or what country’s military it is, around the base, it can be hit or miss. But you get out in the public, it’s a little different. It’s just like anywhere else. And I was surprised at how many could speak English better than a lot of Americans can. But I learned that Japanese, that’s required. Not only their own language—well, Okinawa is actually, was an independent nation at one time. But they do the same thing. They teach their people English because it is a more general language. So, a lot of them could speak it better than a lot of people I know today. And they were nice. And then later on, because I visited Okinawa 3 more times in my career, so I was there 4 times total. I later on learned, I had said earlier my father had passed away when I was young, I didn’t—I knew he was a Marine, but I didn’t know what he did. Well, I found out he fought on Guadalcanal at Okinawa. (00:48:04) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, that even made Okinawa a little—and I took the battlefield tour when I was there, one of the times. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, is there still stuff left in terms of defensive works or things like that? Veteran: Oh, yes. There—a lot of the underground compounds are still there. What they do is they’re caged off so you can see them, and you can still see the bullet holes in the walls, and then they would have maps in back, some of the original Japanese military maps and stuff that you could view. They had other areas, and then at the final part, it’s called the Peace Park where they cover some of the things that went on, how the Okinawans were treated by the Japanese, how they were treated afterwards and stuff like that. �Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and so you’re doing—you also were involved in joint exercises with the Filipinos. Did you work with any of them directly? Or were you just— Veteran: We did a little bit. There was always a Philippine military. Most of the time not on the bases, but they were nearby. I met a few of them. Not a lot because we were taking care of the helicopters, we didn’t see as many. They would be out in the field more. But we would deal with a few of them now and then. Interviewer: Okay. Now, the different units you served with, did you ever train Filipino personnel or have them in some of the training units or…? Veteran: No. No. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so have you basically decided at this point that you are going to stay in the Marines or…? Veteran: At that point, I did not. Because I was over in Okinawa, I was actually thinking about getting out. But I got back in November and of course in December, I am going to be transferring. And I still had 2 years left on my contract, because I had enlisted for 6. And we were talking about it, because it has been 4 years, and I talked with the wife. And at that point back home, Detroit, of course with the oil embargo, there was a lot of layoffs. Even my dad called and says even where he was working, and he worked for Guardian Glass, he said there’s not a lot of work back here. So, I talked with her. Our son was born in ’76 there in Hawaii. At that point, I decided to re-enlist, and I re-enlisted before I left, for another 4 years. And after that, yeah. It was pretty much obvious what was going to happen. (00:50:43) Interviewer: Alright. So, after Hawaii, now what is your next assignment? �Veteran: Actually, I got orders back to Marine Corps Air Station New River, back to HMT-204. Right back to where I started, which I thought was kind of funny. Now, I did spend quite a bit of time in North Carolina, but I was with different units. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I was with 204 for a short period of time, then I joined HMM-261 which is Medium Marine Helicopter squadron. And what happens is those squadrons are a part of the float system for the deployments. It’s a squadron, they will have 12 46s, and then we supply 453s and they supply Cobras and Hueys. And then you spend 6 months out at sea, on a float, med float. Now, the one thing that happened while I was in Hawaii, to regress a little bit, the Marine Corps went to specific MOS’s, so whatever squadron you were in at the time, that’s your MOS now. So, my MOS became 6323, which was com-nav technician on the 53s. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, that’s what I am going to be working on the rest of my career. Interviewer: Alright, so you no longer get to be the jack of all trades and work on all those different airplanes. Veteran: Right. They’re advance—the electronics are advancing to the point where it would actually cost the military, not just the Marine Corps, but the Navy and—the electronics are advancing so much that, what would happen is it would cost more to keep retraining then to just put them in a specific aircraft. (00:52:14) Interviewer: Okay. So, now you’ve got that. Did you go on these cruises then? �Veteran: I went on a med cruise. We left in September of 1979 and came back in February of 1980. Interviewer: Okay. What was that cruise like? Veteran: Basically, you cruised the Mediterranean with the Atlantic fleet. They have a carrier, attack group, and what they call a helicopter assault group. You spend 6 months, you do like, when we first got out there, we did a joint operation with the Greek and Turkish Armies, called Display Determination. Of course, the Cold War is going on back then. The Russian southern fleet is down there so you’re kind of showing the Russians that hey, we are still here, we are still keeping an eye on you, type thing. And then you spend the rest of the 6 months floating around the Mediterranean. Like, we pulled liberty in Greece. When you go into Naples, one time it was a liberty port, another time it’s a working port. We’d spend a couple weeks there. But that allows you to get the aircraft worked on. We did some war games in Sigonella, out—we spent some time out in the field in Sardinia. We also saw Spain. Got to spend Christmas in Palma de Mallorca, which is basically Spain’s version of Hawaii. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. And when you go ashore, what kind of treatment or reception do you find in these places? Veteran: Pretty good. One night in Palma, after I had shore patrol one day, and then we were out one evening. We were sitting there drinking and some gentleman joined us, and we are drinking and it turned out they were from the Russian army that was on liberty there. And I made the mistake of trying to do my turn to buy. No, no, no. Basically grabbed my arm and says “No, no, no. We buy for Marines.” Most of the people, in every country I have been, if you get out and �treat them like you would normal people, don’t play the tourist or the typical party hardy military, they’re fine. (00:54:43) Interviewer: Okay. You did shore patrol. What does that duty consist of? Veteran: Basically, you’re on duty, usually it’s for one 24-hour period. And you’re basically kind of patrolling out there. A: You’re trying to keep the guys from getting in trouble. B: You’re just kind of watching them also. I mean, you’ve got both sides of the coin. You’ve got people that will try to take advantage of the military. You’ve got the military that’ll try to take advantage of a situation. And you just want to try and keep it calm. You’re not trying to get anybody in trouble, you’re just…Like, a lot of the bars and night clubs throughout, they’ll invite you in and buy you something to eat. Because when you are in there, everybody behaves, not just the military. And then when you go on to the next one, they’ll do the same thing. It’s not as bad as ‘course the movies always play it up a little more. Yes, we do have incidents but that’s what we are there for, to try and keep it calm. Interviewer: Right. Okay, a little broader question at this point. So, you—you’ve been in now for a fair number of years, you’ve come in in the mid ‘70s and you know, through the late ‘70s. Were there problems that you ever noticed with the things like drug use or alcoholism, or that kind of thing? (00:56:11) Veteran: I don’t know if it was and I didn’t pay so close attention. I mean, yeah we all partied hard but it seemed like we worked just as hard. There could have been but I’ll be honest, I didn’t pay as much attention. Or maybe instead of making a public issue out of it, they just handled it. I’m sure it was there. Interviewer: But it wasn’t something that ever kind of caught your attention. �Veteran: No, it was—no. Interviewer: Yeah. You know. And how would you characterize morale in the units you were with? Veteran: For the most part, the morale was pretty good. We did have one incident on our med cruise where a guy had a rough time, because as well as we were being treated by the locals, Americans was another story back then. And this gentleman, he was from a small town in New England. And he ran into people he had gone to school with their kids. And they treated him like dirt. He was an American Marine. He was treated better—we were treated better by the Russians there in Palma than he was treated by people from his hometown. And it was hard on him for a while, because he was younger than I was. I was 20 when I went in the service. And it hit him hard. But for the most part, we’d do our job. We’d go out on liberty. Come back, do our job. Interviewer: Alright. And how much contact do you have with home while you are out with the cruise? Veteran: Back then of course, you didn’t have the internet like you do, so it was mail. Now, my wife come up with a smart idea. Because the mail system, once you get out with that fleet, turtles go faster. So, she started numbering the letters, and then I started numbering them back. That way when letter 4 got there before letter 2…You’d here guys open a letter, “What do you mean you solved this problem? What problem?” Well here, she would put it in sequence so you could—so I would just put letter 4 away until letter 2 showed up. Or if I read letter 4, I’d say well, I’ll wait and find out what went on when letter 2 gets there. So, she was pretty good about that. And then every once in a while, when it was available, they would set up the radio on the ship where you could, they could call to a ham operator in the states, and then all you’d have to �pay for is the call from that ham operator’s house to your house. And you could talk on the radio. Of course, it was limited. And you had to do the over and out and all that. But that was kind of a joy thing to do every once in a while. (00:58:45) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now did you have just the one med cruise or…? Veteran: One med cruise. Interviewer: And did you have cruises in the Caribbean or the Atlantic otherwise? Veteran: Well, the Caribbean was the evacuation of Cuba, 1980. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We had got back in February. And next thing you know, we hadn’t, the squadron hadn’t broken up yet, it was still composite. They put us on board the USS Saipan with new LHAs and sent us down for the evacuation of Cuba. So, I guess you could call that a Caribbean cruise. Interviewer: Okay, now why was there an evacuation of Cuba? Veteran: Basically, a lot of the Cubans had finally pretty much had it. And they were leaving. And problems were that’s hurricane season. And these people were just leaving on rowboats, on rafts, on—and then of course, you had, and I am not going to say it’s any particular nationality, but you had the bloodsuckers. They were taking their yachts down and charging thousands of dollars to get people out. And we helped the Coast Guard with that too a little bit, confiscating— basically, it’s called piracy. (1:00:00) Interviewer: So, what’s—so, you’re calling it a evacuation, but it’s not like Cambodia or Vietnam where you are flying into the country to pick up people? Veteran: No. �Interviewer: Because the only American presence really in Cuba at that point is at Guantanamo, and we didn’t evacuate Guantanamo. But the Cubans—this is the era of the boat, Cuban boat people, large numbers of them all leaving and taking to the sea, and so you’re picking people up out of the water? Veteran: Yes. And in some cases, the boat was swamped, they’re all floating in the water. These are shark infested waters. We are getting them out as fast as we can. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: It was an interesting time. Interviewer: Would you bring them onto the ship or…? Veteran: We would bring them onto the ship, and then because it wasn’t that far, we would fly them over to the aircraft carriers because they had planes, they could actually take them into Miami and into the airport. So, they didn’t stay with us. That allowed us to continue down there a lot longer than we probably would have been able to. Interviewer: So, how long did you stay doing that? Veteran: We were only down there about a month. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, okay. And then did you go to sea for other things or just otherwise stay on the base? Veteran: Well, I pretty much stayed on the base after that. Now we are getting—that’s 1980. So, ’81, ’82 I am pretty much on the base. Well, I am working on the base. We actually lived downtown. I joined the volunteer fire department in my area. The one thing about North Carolina, there’s a lot of volunteer fire departments. Just in the county where we lived, Onslow �county, you had 23 fire departments and only 2 of them were paid. That was the base and the city of Jacksonville. The rest was all volunteers. And you’d meet all kinds of people. There were military that—one of the guys on one of our sister fire departments was the weather reporter for channel 12 news. I mean, everybody helped out. You took care of each other. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I pretty much stayed there. Now, I left 261 in ’80. But instead of going back to 20—HM-204, I got reassigned to HMH-362. (1:02:11) Interviewer: Alright. And that, was that again a Medium Helicopter— Veteran: No, this was actually a full, heavy helicopter squadron. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then, towards the end of the year, they came out with a program. The Marine Corps was getting the new CH-53 Echoes and they were looking for people to go for schooling on it. And I submitted my name. And when I went for the interview with the maintenance chief, he told me, “You probably won’t get this because you’ve only got one med cruise.” He said “they’re, you know…” But what happened was, it just so happened I was the only com-nav tech that applied. The rest were electricians. So, I got the school. So, I got to go to the Sikorsky factory in Connecticut for schooling on this new helicopter the Marine Corps was getting. Interviewer: Okay. And what really made this one any different from the earlier ones? Veteran: The A’s and B’s—the A’s and delta’s the Marine Corps had, you had 6 main rotor blades. And if you went from tip to tip, you’re talking about 76 feet. It could carry about 33 combat troops, and then if—in combat, a lot of times you had a crew of 5: you had the pilot, �copilot, you had the crew chief who was also the door gunner, you had the first mech who was also the window gunner on the other side. But one thing we learned from the guys in Vietnam is a lot of times when the helicopters would land, and the ramps would open to let the Marines out, the enemy would fire in. So, they put tripod mounts to put M-60s so when the ramp lowered, we could shoot out and hopefully nobody shot back. We didn’t want to know, we just something they—so you could have that extra person. Well, with the new helicopter, the Echo, the first thing it was it had inflate refueling capabilities. And instead of 6 main rotor blades, it had 7. And tip to tip, it was about 79 feet. Interviewer: Okay. (1:04:04) Veteran: Instead of 2 engines, it had 3. It could carry 55 combat troops, or it could basically lift its own weight: 30,000 pounds. External load. So, you’re getting this heavier duty. And the basic reason that the Navy and Marine Corps wanted it is that it could lift everything in the Navy, Marine Corps inventory. Ground or air. So, if a jet went down, we could got get it and get it back. Not have to leave it behind. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so how long did you spend in Connecticut? Veteran: Well, there was 2 separate classes. The first time was about 2 ½ to 3 months. Then we reported back to our squadrons. And then we went back up to help finish up because once—the second time we were up, we were only there a couple of months. But that was to get things wrapped up because those planes were going to start joining the fleet. And form the first squadron, which was HMH-464. Interviewer: Okay, and did you join that squadron? Veteran: Yes. We—and then we got the first of the air frames. �Interviewer: Alright. Okay, now where was that squadron going to be based? Veteran: It was based at MAG-29 Marine Corps Air Station in New River. Interviewer: Okay, so you’re still basically at home. Veteran: Yep, just now I am on the other side of the base. From one side of the base to the other, basically. Interviewer: Now, did that squadron go on a cruise or just stay where they were while you were there? Veteran: Pretty much it wouldn’t go anywhere. It didn’t have a full complement of aircraft. And part of it was a bunch of us ended up on what’s called the FOTNE—Fleet Operational Test and Evaluation. We were sent on what they called temporary additional duty orders to Quantico, Virginia, home of Marine helicopter squadron 1. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: On the green side. The white side would be the President’s side. What we were going to do is run this new helicopter through its paces. So, we did some flight training there in the Quantico area. And one of the things we had to do was take it up to Pax River to the Navy test center, fly it there so they could run some tests on it, including this guy who zaps lightning into the planes. It’s an actual electronic machine that was created and they would actually—they wouldn’t actually put the aircraft in the air, but they would do all the simulations, right there. They would put it up on jacks and raise the landing gear so it would simulate that the plane was flying, hit this electricity with it. Because that’s something that aircraft have to deal with in flying is lightning strikes. (1:06:35) �Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then they would study the effect it had on the rotor blades, on the electronic equipment, on the fuel system, so they could come up with ways to protect it. And then from there, we flew it out to the west coast, did some mountain training with it. And then one of the things they did from—they flew it from Tustin, California to New River, North Carolina nonstop. First ever helicopter, nonstop, cross country flight. But this was all testing these systems out. Interviewer: Right, and of course this is one you can refuel in the air so that would be a good idea to test. Veteran: Correct, it just kept right on going. Interviewer: Okay, now how common was it for you to fly in these helicopters? Veteran: Once I had gotten trained enough, I ended up on avionics test stints. When planes would get fixed, sometimes they would require a test flight. So, then you would have an avionics man, a hydraulics man, a metalsmith would all fly on it just to watch those systems that were fixed to make sure everything is working. So, I got to fly quite a lot. And any chance I could, I’d fly on them. Interviewer: Alright. Okay, so now how long then do you stay with that new unit? Veteran: I stayed with 464 for a short period of time, then I was transferred to the HAMS-26. That was the—basically the command next step up from a squadron. You’re going into a—and what I would do is I was sent there as part of the group quality assurance, where we kind of overseen all the maintenance on all of the squadrons. Plus, we would get tech crews in. Like, �they were designing some new systems for the aircraft, and it was our—it was civilian crews, and it was our job to oversee what they were doing, make sure they didn’t mess anything up or if they had problems that we needed—we were kind of the go-betweens. And then we would look over the aircraft, make sure everything was ready to go before it got returned to the unit. (1:08:33) Interviewer: Okay. Now, have you been moving up in rank at all during these times or…? Veteran: Little by little. I am now a sergeant. In fact, while I was with HAMs, I got orders back to Hawaii. Now of course while we were in North Carolina, our daughter was born there at Camp Lejeune. So, I got orders back to Hawaii and back to 463. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And the one thing I liked about it, aside from the military thing, because I liked Hawaii. Even when you’re broke, you can always go to the beach and go swimming. I mean, there is always something to do. But my son was now old enough to see where he was born. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: That was kind of nice. And then the one thing we always did when we got orders like that, especially when the kids were gone, I didn’t take the rush out there. I took the maximum time they would allow. And we would tour the country. Kids would see things that they would talk about in school later on, you know. Or visit relatives and stuff like that. So, we wouldn’t rush it, we would make a vacation out of it but we’d—they’d learn too. You know, Mount Rushmore, Yellowstone, all of these places that they probably wouldn’t have seen otherwise. Interviewer: Sure. Okay, so when do you get to Hawaii this time? �Veteran: Let’s see, it was ’83. I am thinking right around September or October of ’83. Interviewer: Okay. And how long will that tour last? (1:10:00) Veteran: 3 years, because I had my family with me. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: It would be two years if you’re unaccompanied. I know that they have changed it since then. I don’t know what it is now. Interviewer: Okay. And now was this a fairly quiet period or…? Veteran: For the most part, yes. In fact, at that point, I had only spent a little bit of time in my MOS in avionics when I got reassigned to maintenance control. Maintenance control, just like QA and stuff like that, they would take different people from different shops. And what you would do in maintenance control, that’s just what it sounds like, you’re controlling the maintenance of the aircraft. You’re getting the information from the operations department “we need the helicopters configured for this for these operations.” Then you’re going with the shops to make sure they’re configured for whatever training. You’re making sure what they call downing discrepancies are taken care of and things like that. Keep the planes operational and safe. Interviewer: Okay. Do you go out with the fleet at all, or are you just entirely on the base? Veteran: Pretty much on the base. At one point, I was transferred to the medium helicopter squadron for a 6-month debt to Okinawa, which was common. And they would rotate people, and mine was in—my tour trip to Okinawa was in ’85.’Course, I stayed in maintenance control because once you are in, they kind of like to keep you. Well, part of it is that you have the �authority to sign a plane safe for flight. So, basically you are taking all of that information from all the work centers, the operations, and you’re saying that you have compiled it all, that you have compared it, you have talked with QA, the plane is safe to fly. You are signing that piece of paper, then that pilot and crew is going out there and flying it. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, you kind of—once you get in there, they kind of keep you there because they put some training into it. Interviewer: Alright. Okay, anything else that kind of stands out about that tour in Hawaii, that period? (1:12:01) Veteran: Well, when I went to Okinawa, I also—we also ended up aboard ship, down to the Philippines again. But that was just—and then, having to spend a couple days, just floating in the ocean, because we were caught between two hurricanes. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, we couldn’t go anywhere. Then going back to Okinawa. Also went up to Yokosuka air base. Interviewer: Japan. Veteran: Yes. Actually, we went to the Navy base. Spent some time there. But the bad luck was when we got there, the USS Midway pulled in and used up the Navy barracks so us with our 453s, we were forced to stay at a hotel in town. Interviewer: Gee, sorry about that. �Veteran: Yeah! That was kind of nice because you get to meet the people. Though, they did have a problem with the hotel design, and I always talk about this. Back then, they didn’t have the key cards, so you had to go get your key from the desk, and then to get to your elevators to get to your room, you had to go through the bar. Interviewer: Okay. A nice little trip. Veteran: Yeah. So, that was interesting. And then different—and then one of our officers found out we were going to be up there, so he managed to purchase a whole bunch of tickets to Tokyo Disneyland. So, a bunch of us went to Disneyland in Tokyo, which was very interesting. Interviewer: So, what did they have at Tokyo Disneyland? It just looked like a regular Disneyland? Veteran: Yeah. It wasn’t quite as big, because this was only its third year in existence, it had only been there 3 years. It was still growing. But it was kind of neat. It was—I had taken the kids to Disneyland when we transferred and a lot of it was the same. The only thing you kind of had to get used to was on the cars, the narrations were in Japanese, but all the characters, like in the haunted mansion, they’re speaking English. It could get a little confusing at times. But if you paid close attention, you could figure out what was going on. (1:14:22) Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: But other than that, it was enjoyable. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and so when does that Hawaii tour end up? Veteran: That ended about September of ’86. Interviewer: ’86, okay. �Veteran: And then I got back orders back to New River. Now of course, here’s on the other side of the coin, now my daughter is old enough to see where she was born. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Of course, I don’t know if you are familiar with the term, but both of my kids are military brats. And in case anybody is curious, it means born, raised, and transferred in the service. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, we are back there. Now this time, I get there in ’80—towards the end of ’86, but it was only a 3-year tour this time. I joined 360—yeah, 362 I went back to. And we lived in a different part of town and I joined another volunteer fire unit. And then, in ’90, it was kind of uneventful. Went on a few little debts. No more—I did in ’88, once we got back there, I did go on a North Atlantic cruise. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Called Teamwork 88. Up around Norway and then for liberty, we got to go to Ireland for 4 days. So, that was nice. But that was only, that was a short thing, just a—basically, war games with the Norwegian, Swedish, Royal Marines, British Navy up in the North Atlantic. (1:16:02) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now you get down toward 1990, now you’re getting to the point where Saddam Hussein decides that Kuwait should be the 21st province of Iraq and things get interesting again. �Veteran: Well, I was in North Carolina at the time, and I got orders to California this time. To Tustin Marine Corps Air Station helicopters. Now, this was in February of ’90 and the kids were in school so me and the wife talked about it and decided going to—now I am already to the point where I am on my last hitch, basically. But one thing we learned in the military, and it don’t matter what service, if you turned down orders, that’s an excuse for them to send you packing. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, I got orders. With the kids in school, we decided we are not going to pull the kids out of school because they would miss so much school, it would hurt them. So, her and the kids stayed in North Carolina and I headed out to California. Along the way, I kidnapped my wife’s grandmother. Well, I was traveling ahead and found out that my wife’s cousin lived in California and their grandmother was going to go out in a couple weeks to see them. Well, her cousin’s husband was going to leave on a Friday afternoon, drive all the way to Nashville, Tennessee, get a couple hours sleep and then drive back so he could be back to work on Monday and we are like, well, I am going anyway. So, we called them up to see if she could come out a couple weeks early and she rode with me. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, I get out to there and I check in the HMH-466, part of that squadron. Now, one of the first things that happened is just becoming part of it, and I actually ended up in maintenance control again. Like I said, once you are in, you’re pretty much stuck. They’re going to—it’s going to happen. You learn to accept it. And then after the kids were out of school, in July I went back and got the family. Took some leave, went back and got the family. Actually, that would have been June, because in July our unit got orders up to mount warfare training, so we took a �couple of helicopters up there to play in the mountains on the north side of Yosemite. So, now I am seeing some place else I had never seen before. (1:18:20) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And that’s one of the things I will be the first to admit, all the places I went, it was enjoyable. Except one, and we will get to that one later. The place was kind of enjoyable, but the whole reason we were there made it not so great. And then the other thing I recommend to people, when you are places, enjoy the local food, see. That’s like, regressing back a little bit to North Carolina, when—the first time I was there, we lived out in town. My next-door neighbor was a Jacksonville city police officer. And within a couple months, I knew more about the area than he did. I had been to the Battleship North Carolina, I had been to the Tryon Palace, which was the original government seat of the state of North Carolina. I got out and visited and did things, I didn’t just hang around the base or hang around the house. We would take the kids, we would go places. And I think that’s one of the big things. I think where a lot of guys get turned off of the military or women, both, I don’t want to pick on one or the other, they all they do is hang around the base and then after a while they get so frustrated, when there is so much to see out there. Interviewer: Alright. So, we are going to go back in here to your story. So, you go and do the mountain training, and then what happens next? Veteran: Well, while we are up in the mountain training, we got orders back to the base. Unit is pulling out. We are being deployed. This was a little different than going on a ship. We were taking 8 aircraft, and we were going to break them down. We are going to break them down so that they can be loaded into C5As. Once broken down, you can fit two and then you put crew on �top. We had our orders, we were going to Saudi Arabia. Now, my NCIC, considering I just got my family out there, put me on the last flight leaving. He said, “I will give you a little more time to spend with your family since you just got them.” So, I was on the last plane that left. We broke down our helicopter. It takes about 12-13 hours to get them completely broke down. You got to remove all the rotor blades, you got to remove one tail blade, an upward collision light, you got to fold the tail, you got to remove the gear box, you got to deflate the struts, you got to take the helicopter tires off and put jet tires on, you got to remove the fuel probe and all the electronic equipment too, and then they can actually be pushed into the C5As. (1:20:45) Interviewer: How long does it take to break one down? Veteran: About 12 hours. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Constant work. And it takes about 14 hours—it takes about 12 hours to put them together, and then you got to do a test flight, about 2-hour test flight, once you put them back together. Interviewer: Okay, now if you are flying in a C5A, it’s a big transport plane— Veteran: Right. Interviewer: What kind of accommodations does it have for passengers? Veteran: It has a whole upper area that is—seems like an airline. Interviewer: Okay, so it’s not like being in a C-130 or something like that? Veteran: No. I have flown in some of them too. �Interviewer: Okay. So again, it’s like 12-13 hours or whatever, a long flight out to Saudi Arabia. Veteran: Yeah, we flew from Tustin, California. Being how we were the last ones, we had to go straight through, where the others got to stop at the Air Force base outside of Philly. We flew straight through to Germany, and then once they got, once the embassies got clearance for us to fly over Egyptian airspace, then we went down and landed in—at Jebel International Airport, where our aircraft were offloading. We started putting them back together. Interviewer: Alright, so when did you actually get to Saudi Arabia? Veteran: Let’s see…It would have been August of 1990. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And now once you are there, what happens? (1:22:02) Veteran: Well we were at—first off, we were in Jebel, which is the international airport. Brand new, hadn’t even opened yet. Now the U.S. military is using it, and met some very interesting Saudi personnel. Some of the Saudi Navy was there, so they were really helpful in helping us get kind of acclimated to the area. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then we start putting our aircraft together and get them tested. And apparently, Saudis are some very nice people. We had been there about a week and one of the things we used to do was take tarps to cover the windscreens on the helicopters because that’s not glass, it’s a plexiglass composite material. And in that hot sun, they would warp. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: So, you cover them to protect them. Well the one—the Saudi crew that was sharing the area that we were at inside the hang—inside the terminal, asked us where they could get some of those so we gave them the information. And a couple nights later, we were invited over to one of their hangars. They had all these tarps spread out and they brought in dinner. They treated us to dinner, and then they had a whole refrigerated semi full of coke brought in because they were thankful, as far as they were concerned, us arriving so quick kept Saddam from invading. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: Now, I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I wasn’t going to turn down food. It was delicious. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now the official Gulf War per se doesn’t start until early 1991, so you got a period of months there, there’s a build-up of allied forces going on. Veteran: Right. And then our unit, once our aircraft were fully tested and built up, we were moved to Ras al Ghar, we were moved closer to the front. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, we could support the ground troops. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And the, anything else, heavy equipment, stuff like that. Interviewer: Okay. Aside from the heat, what other kinds of problems were there with trying to run a helicopter unit? (1:24:04) Veteran: The sand. Think of a sand blaster. What it would—you got this rotor head turning 20,000 rpm. So, we—rotor blades were an issue because when they are turning like that, �especially in the sand, it starts eating away at the paint and the material. So, we learned from the Israeli air force on tips to help with that problem. But I would say the biggest issue was the sand. Interviewer: Okay. And would that mess up other parts of the aircraft as well? Veteran: Yeah, it would. Interviewer: It would get into everything? Veteran: It would get into everything. And yes, it would be hard on the electronics, it would be hard on the air frame, it would be hard on just about every part of that aircraft. Interviewer: Okay. Now, while you are there this period of several months, I mean are you following news and trying to keep up on what’s happening or do you just do your job and ignore everything else? Veteran: We would hear occasionally—because once we got to Ras al Ghar, it wasn’t a whole lot of direct communication. Because, it was one of those things, in fact we had—a bunch of us had a t-shirt made and it showed the map of Saudi Arabia on it and it said “Somewhere, Somewhere Else.” You know, because you’re not allowed to say where you’re at. And we kind of made a joke about it but it was limited what we would get just because of that reason. Their thing was is if we had too much direct access, the enemy could figure out where we were. And you really don’t want them to know. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And that was the primary thing, and for the most part, you know, we’re helping get the troops placed where they need to be placed, we’re doing our jobs. And basically, that was the primary. �Interviewer: Okay, so you’re moving Marine personnel and supplies to different places? Veteran: Right. The artillery, stuff like that. And then we continue our training too because you never want to stop. The more you train, the better. The more—so you keep flying anyway, keep the aircraft available because you never know what’s going to happen. We didn’t know. Today its nice, peaceful. Tomorrow, we might get the word. So, we are going to be ready. (1:26:18) Interviewer: Okay, now aside from meeting some of the Saudis, do you see any of the other coalition people there? Veteran: We saw some Australians, course we saw Israelis. They helped, they were real helpful with a lot of that stuff because they deal with the sand all the time and they use a lot of U.S. aircraft. Interviewer: Were there Israelis in Saudi Arabia? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Wow, you don’t hear about that too often. Veteran: Not in a sense that they were a part of the coalition, but they were—because they were allies. They were there to help us get through that stuff because they had their side of the fence to really watch. Interviewer: Okay, because I guess that’s the period when Saddam is shooting Scud missiles at Israel as well as Saudi Arabia. Veteran: And just shooting them everywhere. Interviewer: Yep. �Veteran: Yeah, he wasn’t too particular. Of course, the Scud missile was not one of your most accurate. Once you launched it—you could aim it at, let’s say Riyadh, and it might hit 60 miles the other way. It was not a very accurate missile, so once they launched, everybody is put on alert because you don’t know where it might land. Interviewer: Now, did any of them land in any of the areas where you were? Veteran: We had a couple of close calls. The Patriot missiles took care of that. We got put on alert. Got woke up at 0’dark thirty in the morning to go get in our bunkers because there was one headed, and the Patriot missiles took care of them. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: None that actually hit but there were a few times. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how much sort of outside news are you getting while you are there? Communications any better than they were back in the Vietnam era or…? (1:28:00) Veteran: Oh yeah, they were a lot better because a lot more computerized. And the squadron was also trying to help. Like what they would do is they’d call up—get the wives and families—over to the squadron, the hangar, and they would do a videotape. So, you could say hi to everybody, and then they would send that to us. And then they would at times—of course, we couldn’t do like the family did and meet all at one time, we’d have to do it a little bit at a time because you’ve still got jobs to do. And then we would get to return—and then they would send it back. Mail was a little bit better. I won’t say a lot because the mail system when you are…But it was a little bit better. Of course, you’re in an area where you can get more news. We weren’t too far from Aramco, the international oil company that serviced the oil rigs for the Saudis. So, you had those people. They would come and visit and they would pass things on. And there was a little, �you know, of course you’re talking in the ‘90s, now you’ve got satellites are more prevalent so. But you didn’t have like tvs in every tent or nothing like that but it was a little more accessible. Interviewer: Right. So, you’re not watching CNN or— Veteran: No. Interviewer: Or that kind of thing. Veteran: No. He did. Saddam. That’s one of the reasons they didn’t want us broadcasting where we were or getting—because he’s paying attention on those. Interviewer: Mhmm. Yeah. Okay, now as we get closer to the operation starting, how much advance warning did you have that it was on? Veteran: Well, we kind of got a sneak peek. Our maintenance, our supply chief—material control chief—had gone up to Jubail, where our group headquarters was, to pick up some supplies and he heard something was in the wind. He didn’t hear any details but he did pick up. So, when he got back—so we started prepping. They, we got everybody up at 3 o’clock in the morning, set up crews. We were going to make sure we were ready. And if it didn’t happen, well, that’s alright. But it did happen. We got orders to launch. (1:30:11) Interviewer: Okay, so now what happens? Veteran: Well, we got our 8 aircraft ready to go and we launched them. Our sister squadron launched theirs and at that point, all we can do is sit and wait. Wait until they come back. Interviewer: So, how long would they be out? Veteran: Well that first day, they were gone most of the day. And then if you’ve ever seen war movies where they all—where you see guys sitting there counting planes when they would come �back? Well, that’s what we did when they started coming back. We are sitting there counting them as they fly by, to make sure we had 8 come back. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: We sent 8 out, we want 8 coming back. And we were lucky. For the most—we didn’t lose any aircraft at any given time. Interviewer: Okay. And did you learn anything about what they actually had done while they were out? Veteran: Yeah, we would hear about it, because of course they would have to go debrief and all of that. And of course, you would hear about it sooner or later. It would be different things going on. Part of it, which I won’t go into any details—I don’t know what’s considered anything—but part of it we’d be relocating the troops. Okay the troops are at this point, now they’re over here or the artillery was here, now we are moving it over here. You know, strategic placements. Interviewer: Mhmm. But they are not involved in any kind of combat assault sort of thing or…? Veteran: In a way, because we would fly the troops to the combat zone. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then they would offload to go. To that extent, or we would take the artillery crew and their gun to a spot where they are going to start firing. So, our helicopters with their .50 cals are their initial defense when we first land. Hopefully—and one of the reasons you don’t want to keep the helicopters, because that would, as big as it is, it would give away a position sooner or later. So, you’d get them in and then get out. (1:32:09) �Interviewer: Yeah. Right. Veteran: So, they could do their job faster. Interviewer: Yeah. And I guess a lot of weapons have long enough range that that bad guy some distance away with machine guns or whatever could still target you, with missiles or whatever they’ve got. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. So, now the—how long does this sort of go on? I mean does it just…Because like the war, per se, the shooting war officially is only a few days. Veteran: Well, for the troops and that—ours went on quite longer because you had to move them, they had to move them to Kuwait so we had to support—keep them supplied. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then if any were—they had the helicopters to bring those that were injured, or wounded or whatever, out. Plus, you bring in fresh supplies, fresh troops. Our helicopter squadron was one of the first 53 squadrons there and most of the 53s, of all of the squadrons that were there, were some of the last to leave. Because of the versatility. Interviewer: Right. Because you are moving personnel and supplies around. Veteran: We could move personnel, we could move the cargo. We can recover a Humvee that’s broke down or been shot up. We can recover a downed jet. It’s so versatile, there’s more that it can do. So, it’s—so when you start sending the smaller helicopters back, you keep the bigger one because they can do their job plus his. Interviewer: Now, did you go into Kuwait at all yourself? �Veteran: No, I did not. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so how long then the does the squadron stay in Saudi Arabia? Veteran: We left in March of ’91. Interviewer: Okay. So, a couple months sort of after the action. Veteran: Yep. Yeah, right. Interviewer: Okay. And from there, is it back to California again? Veteran: Back to California to rebuild the aircraft. Then back…In all this time, I am still in maintenance control and sitting there and end up back in mountain warfare training with a couple aircraft for another stint. And then it was one more trip to Okinawa. And that’s when I took the battlefield tour, because I found out that my dad had fought there. It was a way to kind of connect, since I was so young when he passed. (1:34:29) Interviewer: Okay. And now with Okinawa, does your family stay back in California? Veteran: Yes. Yeah, because it is basically a 6-month debt. The aircraft stay there but they rotate the personnel. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: The basic policy was you go out for 6 months, you’re back for 12-18. And then you go out for another 6. Interviewer: Mhmm. Now, you’re getting towards the end of your enlistment though, so this trip is sort of your last. Is that your last one? Veteran: In fact, that—when I went to Okinawa, it wasn’t my last trip. �Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: When I went to Okinawa, while we were there, the Stars and Stripe, which is the military paper for the bases in the far east, had an article about General Schwarzkopf announcing his retirement. A week later the next paper comes out and here’s General Colin Powell announcing his retirement. I’m like “Hmmm.” What do they know that I don’t? That was my thought. I don’t know if it meant anything but…So, I went up and put in my retirement package because once you reach 13 months, you can put in. and then I kind of thought “yeah, I think it’s time to retire” because the S1 clerk was actually born two weeks after I went to bootcamp. So, now I am thinking “yeah maybe it is time to retire, this kid wasn’t even around when I started.” But it wasn’t quite to be. I still had one more trip. Got back from Okinawa and we went to Somalia in December of ’92. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Operation Restore Hope. Interviewer: Alright, so to go out there, are you going to be in a carrier or…? (1:36:06) Veteran: We were land-based. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: They did the same thing. We broke up aircraft, put them on C-5As, and we flew to Somalia. Interviewer: Okay. And what kind of facility or base did you have there? Veteran: Initially, we were at the port to get the aircraft built up. Eventually, we relocated out to the international airport, which really, aside from the buildings, didn’t really exist anymore with �everything that had gone on. But we were out there. We operated out of the international airport, or what was left of it. Interviewer: Okay, so what kind of facilities did you have there? Were you living in tents or…? Veteran: Yes. In fact, both in Desert Storm, Desert Shield in Somalia, above my tent flew the flag of the state of Michigan. It was presented to me by…My mom lived in Melvindale and the city councilman got it flown over the state capitol and then sent to me. So, I made sure to fly it. And I have pictures of it. Interviewer: Very good. Alright, and so what was going on…I mean, in Somalia, what are you seeing? What are you doing? Veteran: The first reason we were there was to help the Red Cross. The international Red Cross was having so much trouble getting aid to the people because of these warlords. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: They would hold them up for contraband. And by the time they would get in the country, they would have pretty much nothing left. So, our primary mission at first was to help the Red Cross do its job. And of course, when you’ve got Marine Cobra helicopters and Marine Humvees with machine guns, there wasn’t a whole lot of arguments from the warlords. We were able to start getting food out to the people. That was the main thing. I would, I don’t know if our job was to interfere with the warlords or that that was higher above my pay grade, I just took care of the aircraft. But I am sure there was other things we were supposed to do there but that was kind of obvious. The Red Cross needed that assistance. (1:38:06) �Interviewer: Okay. And were there people from other countries there? Veteran: Yes. In fact, on the other side of the airport was an Australian detachment. We used to trade our MRE meals. There was also a Sudanese…I am not sure, but they were to the south of us. In fact, they caught a couple of individuals trying to sneak in with weapons. So, they were kind of being a perimeter of security for all of us operating out of the airfield. I think it was—I don’t know, I am not 100% sure, but I think it was. And we met them a couple times. Met a couple others. Some Canadians. Interviewer: Okay. And were you there when the Black Hawk down incident took place or was that— Veteran: No, I wasn’t. We had already left by then. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so while you were there was it relatively quiet? Or not a lot of shooting going on? Veteran: There was an occasional incident. When we first got there, there was an incident where a local tried to rush the main gate with an old World War 2 rifle. Of course, you’ve got Marines there on the main gate. But he did actually hit the tail of one of the C5s so they had to stop him. They figure he was either on drugs or something, to do something that silly. But for the most part, most of the issues were out. I mean, no matter where you go, there’s going to always be some. Interviewer: Mhmm. And was that physically the worst assignment you had? Or was Saudi Arabia worse or…? �Veteran: That was the worst assignment. Anywhere else that we went, even Saudi Arabia, I did spend some time where we would have basically liberty. And you could see a little bit. And there was the local food. Obviously, you’re not going to try and eat local food there because there was no…anything, you lived on your MREs. And I think because it was so close to my retirement. And the fact that here is this—this country was just shambles. You got all of these warlords, and all they are doing is basically fighting each other and fighting their own people for their power. They didn’t care about anything else. (1:40:28) Interviewer: Okay. So, getting out and visiting the country is not really an option there? Veteran: No. You’re not…That would have probably been your death warrant, personally. Personal opinion. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay, so when do you get out of Somalia then? Veteran: Got back in April of ’93. Interviewer: Okay. And then you retire? Veteran: July. Interviewer: Okay. So now you are sort of on the way out. Now, was this sort of standard for Marine Corps enlisted to serve 20 years if you’re going to be a career person? Or would people go longer than that? Veteran: It is kind of based on rank by DOD. Each rank—now, as a staff sergeant, 20 years is the max you are allowed. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: A gunny can go longer, which would…And then a master sergeant or first sergeant could go even longer. It’s not uncommon. A lot, especially if you spend it all in the fleet where you are gone a lot, like I was. It’s not uncommon. After 20 years, you’re kind of worn out. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, a lot of them would call it quits at that point. And then there’s others that some have stayed in only their 4 years, some have stayed in 8, some…Then one guy I knew, he was in for 15 years and called it quits. Each and—that’s an individual thing. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you have prospects to go higher and get another promotion or did you…? Veteran: No, it— Interviewer: Or was that not really in line for you with what you were doing? Veteran: There was always the prospects, because you would go in front of the boards and they would review. I missed—I didn’t get it the first time. It—that happens. But again, the 20 years, I was kind of worn out. (1:42:08) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I’ll be honest about it. Interviewer: Alright. So, once you do get out, what do you do next? Veteran: Well, first off, coming back in April and then leaving in July, there wasn’t a lot of planning available. Interviewer: Right. �Veteran: But one—So, we were able to put our stuff out there in California in storage. Military put it in storage. And then we went cross country and ended up in Detroit, because that’s where my wife’s family and my mom were living. Kind of hit or miss. Now, luckily, of course you got out—had time once we got back. Now the job situation? There wasn’t a whole lot there. Not in the Detroit area. So, I was down in a Tennessee a couple times, because we thought about settling down there because most of my wife’s family is from Tennessee. Because that’s where she was born. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: But one day I am looking in the papers, and there was quite a few jobs up in this area so I though, “Well, I’ll give it a shot.” So, I come up here for a couple days. Stayed at what was the Holiday Inn on Ann street, it’s now an independent. And I kind of liked it. I had never been here before. But I thought you know what, I better bring the family up. See what they think before I make this decision because this is going to be—and they liked it. And we stayed. And we have been here ever since. Interviewer: Okay, so who did you work for? Veteran: For the first couple of months, I worked for Spartan Foods at their warehouse. I was a security guard. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Then I went to work for Brinks. Armored car service. And I worked with them until I retired in 2015. Interviewer: Okay, so you didn’t go into anything aviation related or anything like that? �Veteran: No. I did work, I did eventually work my way up to their ATM manager, so I was dealing with electronics a lot. Interviewer: Okay. So, you worked up that way. Alright. And now to look back at your career in the service, I mean overall, what do you think you took out of that? Or how did that effect you? (1:44:07) Veteran: Well one of the big things, it gave me a perspective to look at both sides of a coin. You know, you go to these countries and you hear stories. Or even here in the states, you hear stories. But you only hear their side of the story. I kind of learned to see both sides of the coin. You know, you hear the person complaining about something and you hear the person that’s for that same thing that this person is against, but you kind of learn to be able to pull out the common denominators and see. Yeah, I understand what you’re saying, I understand what you are saying, but maybe we need to do this to make it work. And I think that was the biggest thing. And learning wherever you go, always visit and enjoy. You’ll be surprised how friendly people are. And I am not talking governments or tourist traps, I am talking get out. I think those are the two biggest things. Interviewer: Alright. Well, it makes for pretty good stories, so thanks for coming and sharing it today. Veteran: Yeah. You want to hear one good story, this is one that I have talked about a lot. Of course, we worked on the aircraft. They would have discrepancies. One of—a friend of mine, when they did the specializing, he ended up in the OV-10 squadron, observation squadron. And they had a pilot from a jet declare an emergency at the base we were at. Emergency landing. He was downing the airplane and he taxied over. I am not going to go into the whole story but �basically, when he wrote up the gripe and the avionics shop looked at it and they showed it to the maintenance officer, the pilot was in a little bit of hot water because he had written up that the radar altimeter on his jet would not work on inverted flight. (1:46:08) Interviewer: What does that mean? Veteran: The radar altimeter, it sends a radar signal from one antenna down to the ground to bounce up into another antenna to tell the jet how high off the ground he is. Inverted flight, he’s flying upside down. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We’re trying to find out what he planned to bounce that signal off of if he’s upside down. But that’s why the training. He—it wasn’t that he didn’t know what he was doing, it’s just he probably never paid attention before. And we had maintenance people that would make those kind of…You’d think “Well, that’s kind of dumb.” Well that’s why we train. Interviewer: Okay, so he really didn’t even know how his own system worked? So that if you are trying to bounce something off of the sky, maybe that doesn’t work so well. Veteran: Yeah. But that’s, there’s the reason we are training. And then the other thing I learned is don’t always assume or memorize. They actually taught us not to memorize things in the military, they taught us to use the manuals, use the books. He said the processes might not change. And one instructor spelled it out. He says “Okay, you got a rotor head. That rotor head holds 6 rotor blades. Each of those blades has 14 bolts, let’s say.” He said, “I am not going to give you exact numbers, I am just using this as an example. Now, let’s say according to the book, you have to torque each of those bolts a thousand foot-pounds, because its head is turning.” He says, “Okay, you memorize it. That’s how you do it every day, every day, every day. Now, a �year from now, the company that makes this aircraft realizes 1000 ain’t right. Maybe it’s supposed to be 2000, or maybe it’s supposed to be only 800, but you are still doing 1000. Now you are risking that crew and those troops’ lives. So, we were always taught to use books, to read, to pay attention. Not just to automatically do it. And I think those are the biggest things. Interviewer: Okay. Alright then. Thank you. Veteran: Thank you. This was interesting. (1:48:08) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_ThrasherD2190V Title A name given to the resource Thrasher, David (Interview transcript and video), 2018 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-08-12 Description An account of the resource Dave Thrasher was born on May 19th, 1953 in Detroit, Michigan. Thrasher joined the Marine Corps in 1973 and attended boot camp at the Marine Corps Recruit Training Depot in San Diego, California, where trained in aviation electronics and worked on the Marine Corps helicopters. After his training, he was deployed to Cambodia for Operation Eagle Pull and remained off the coast of Vietnam to aid in the evacuation effort. Thrasher also participated in joint operation Display Determination as well as efforts to rescue people escaping Cuba and Teamwork 88 military exercise in Norway. He was stationed in Somalia for both Desert Storm and Desert Shield before returning to California in April, 1993, leaving the service, and settling in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thrasher, David Ross Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c5bc38408379f9ec57e0b487f4b8697f.mp4 02650cafbe5da7bb7948d45613d08741 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4721587222fc1a272dff190177cd1662.pdf 0a2619031e0f531cd5c70f0a5b99018b PDF Text Text Tamburini, John Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam War Interviewee’s Name: John Tamburini Length of Interview: (1:11:48) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Chelsea Chandler Interviewer: “Okay, John, start us off with some background on yourself, and to begin with, where and when were you born?” I was born in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Interviewer: “In what year?” 1948. And moved to the town of Millstone in Somerset county. I resided in Millstone until my time of being drafted into the army. Interviewer: “Okay, and back up a little bit. What was your family doing for a living when you were a kid?” My mother was a homemaker, my father was a construction worker, and that was really it until the time I went into the service. Interviewer: “Okay. Did you finish high school?” Pardon? Interviewer: “Did you graduate from high school?” Yes, I did. Interviewer: “In what year did you graduate?” In 1966. Interviewer: “Okay, and so what did you do after graduating?” I went to a technical institute, and it was a two-year program. And during my two-year program, I would continue to go to the draft hall to find out where my number was, and when my number was getting closer and I started my second year, I really didn’t concentrate on my studies and was asked to leave. (1:12) I went out and bought a new car, and shortly after that, I got my draft notice, was drafted into the army, and gave the car to my brother. My younger brother. And was in the army in February of 1969. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Okay. Did you get the car back when you came back?” No, my brother kept it. Interviewer: “Oh, okay. All right. Where did you go for basic training?” Fort Dix, New Jersey. Interviewer: “Okay, and describe what basic training was like at that point.” Basic training was really—It’s funny because I trained with the—in Fort Dix in the winter of— February and March, which was kind of sort of different, knowing that I was going to be going to Vietnam probably. And we did force-marches through quite a few feet of snow and did our grenade qualifications and our rifle qualifications in the snow. Laying in the snow. (2:03) And then I left Fort Dix after my basic training, went home for a week, and then went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Interviewer: “Okay. Now when you were at Fort Dix, how much emphasis was there on discipline and following orders?” Quite a bit. It was quite a different change from civilian life going in there, and I thought that I was brought up in a pretty good household. And I had some—I would say—strict parents, but we were organized and not maybe regimented. But we had certain rules to follow, and I just thought I was a pretty good kid at that point until I got into the service. Then I saw a different side of life, and it was like, “You’re going to get your ass kicked.” And it kind of sort of straightened you out. Makes you a little bit more a man. Interviewer: “All right. Now did you understand at the time what they were doing?” Not really, no. I just knew that I was serving time and that I had to follow orders, and it was the military. And I knew I wanted to be a good soldier because I wasn’t about to disappoint my family and be discharged. And I was continuing to follow orders, and, again, I had the attitude to make the best of it. Interviewer: “Okay. Now the other guys that you were training with there—Did they take the same attitude, or did some of them have trouble?” I think they pretty much did. We pretty much stuck together as a group, and we knew that we were all in the same boat together if I could say that. And I guess we were all a little concerned what was down the road for us, knowing that Vietnam was going—Vietnam was active. And you didn’t really know what MOS you were going to really get, and basic training was really just basic. Interviewer: “All right. Yeah. How much did you know about Vietnam at that time?” �Tamburini, John Really nothing. I mean, other than—Maybe I shouldn’t say nothing. On Sunday night, I remember laying in the living room, and we used to watch the Honor Roll. And we used to watch who was killed in action, and I never really thought much outside the box other than, “Wow.” You know. “Somebody—A lot of people are getting killed in Vietnam.” Never thinking that I would set foot on that soil. (4:07) Interviewer: “Okay. All right, because you were saying—You used the term MOS, which is military occupational specialty.” Yeah, it’s a military—Yeah, occupation to service. Yes. Interviewer: “Yeah, yeah, so you don’t know where you’re going to go, what you’re going to do. All right. Okay, and so then—But you’re now sent—Now they send you for advanced training in Fort Sill?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, and what kind of training did you get there?” We not only got basic training, but we also learned about the Howitzers. We trained on the 105s, the 155s, the tanks, and other hand guns like grenade launchers, rifles, which was a M14, and we did field maneuvers. And that went on, you know, for another couple months. Interviewer: “Okay, so you’re getting—In addition to the artillery training, which would be standard there, they’re also giving you some infantry training?” Yes, there also came hand-in-hand with that. Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, because the understanding is you might well wind up in Vietnam, and…” You needed both to survive. Interviewer: “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, and did they treat you any differently at Fort Sill than they did back at Fort Dix?” I think Fort Sill, Oklahoma was a little bit more rigid because I think they were trying to finetune you—if I could say that—for that career or for that MOS, and it was really a much more serious and concentrated—what can I say—job. That you had a responsibility. And there was a lot more to learn, especially, you know, learning all the artillery components and, you know, all about them. And, like I said, with the tanks, the 105s, the 155s, and, you know, the other handheld devices—grenade launchers, rifles—and even grenade throwing. Interviewer: “Okay. Now did they tell you anything at that point about Vietnam?” �Tamburini, John Yes, they did. As we got to the end of your advanced training, they basically brought you aside and said, “Listen. You have a very good chance of going to Vietnam as basically a Private E2.” Which is, I think, what would be our rank. “Or you can go to the NCO Academy, which you then—” Is a six-month academy. (6:03)You come out a Sergeant E5, but you were going to go to Vietnam, no questions asked. And you will serve time in Vietnam, so what I did at that time—I contacted my family and my—who is my wife today, my fiancée then. And I said to them—I says, “I think I want to go to Vietnam as a better soldier instead of going as an E2.” I said, “I think it’s better.” And, if there’s a bonus to it, you made more money, which was hardly anything. So I then went home on leave for a short period of time, went back to Fort Sill, and I did a six-month academy, which really fine-tuned me that much more beyond any expectation that I had. It was quite rigorous, very involved, and it was another eye-opener. And I thought that I was going to go to Vietnam as a good soldier, and if it wasn’t for that, I don’t think I would’ve come home alive. Interviewer: “Okay. What kinds of things were they teaching you then? The NCOSchool?” Well, it was more artillery but also a lot of advanced life-saving in respect that learning how to fight and also POW/MIA training, which was quite an eye-opener, and that was something I never thought I would experience. But it did, and I, again—The whole program made me a better soldier. Interviewer: “Okay, and did they have a leadership component to it?” Oh, yes, it did. Yeah, you had a platoon, and every time you rotated who was in charge of the platoon. And if you messed up, they let you know about it, and I did mess up one time when I left a whole battery—if I could say that—at attention for quite a while. And I paid for the—How could I say it? I paid the price for it because—And then I had to put my head in a bush and talk to the bush for a while, but, again, that was all part of the—I think, the mental. And not only, you know, the physical, but the mental. (8:03) You know, to see at what point you’re going to take it. Interviewer: “Okay. Now I know that with the infantry NCO-School one of the things that happened was after you did the training part, they sent you to work with a basic training unit or an AIT unit where you were one of the sergeants doing the training. Now did they do that for artillery, or was your six months all just training you?” No, we also had—We also had to be responsible for the other troops that are going into training in AIT or in the advanced training. Yeah, that was part of it. Interviewer: “Okay, so you did some of your sergeant stuff with them.” Yes, I was an acting sergeant when I was in even—I was an acting sergeant even in the Advanced Infantry Training after Fort Sill. Or even after Fort Dix. Interviewer: “Right. Okay, so you’ve been doing some of them all along, and now you do some more of it.” �Tamburini, John Right. I kind of sort of—I look back at it now, and when we first went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma—I don’t know how it happened, but I was designated as a—as a sergeant. And I—They give you a temporary sergeant patch to wear, and it was, at first, uncomfortable. But I said, “You know, it’s all part of learning about the leadership and the responsibility.” Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah, so basically your approach is you’re going to do there, you’re going to go, you will do the best job you can, and you want to prepare yourself to do that as best you can.” That was correct. Yeah, and I wanted to go as a good soldier. Interviewer: “All right. Okay. Now when you complete the NCO Academy, do you get orders for Vietnam?” It was automatic. Yes, because I was part of the condition that when you signed those papers for the academy, that you were going to Vietnam. Interviewer: “Okay. Did you get to go home before you left?” Yes, for one week. Interviewer: “Okay. Now what was that like? You’re going back home, you’re not—You’re out of the military for a week, and now you know you’re going to Vietnam.” Pretty tough. (10:04) Interviewer: “Okay, because you’ve got—Now were you engaged to be married at that point or just had a girlfriend at that point, or…?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and how did your family view that? Because had your dad been in the military in World War II, or…?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so not easy. Okay. All right, so now how do they get you to Vietnam?” We flew from Newark Airport to, I believe, an airbase in Washington state. Interviewer: “Okay. So yeah, Travis, or—Yeah.” Yeah, and then that’s when you got changed. And then from there we went to, I think, Yokota Air Force Base in Japan and then from Yokota Air Force Base to Cam Ranh Bay. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Okay. What’s your first impression of Vietnam?” The smell. When they opened the door, I thought I’d put my head in somebody’s dirty underwear. I don’t know how else to describe it. I don’t know. Interviewer: “Well, there’s a lot of decaying vegetation and any number of other things making smells, but yeah, that’s a pretty common impression. All right. What did they do with you at Cam Ranh Bay?” They put you in a hooch for a couple hours, and then they arranged transportation for you in a— in a Chinook. And they took you to Camp Evans, which was up north. Interviewer: “Okay. Now did they take you—I mean, Cam Ranh Bay is a long way from Camp Evans. Did they maybe fly you to Camp Eagle or Phu Bai?” I remember going in a chopper. In a helicopter. Interviewer: “Okay, but was it a long helicopter ride?” (12:08) Not that I remember. No, it didn’t—It didn’t really stick in my mind it was long. Interviewer: “It’s possible that they flew you in a military transport to Da Nang or to Phu Bai or someplace, but…” Maybe Phu Bai, but I do remember landing— Interviewer: “But you got—But you know you went to Camp Evans in a Chinook.” Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes, I did go to Camp Evans. Interviewer: “All right, and how do they deal with the new arrivals then when you get there?” Well, I guess it was reality that this is real. You’re in South Vietnam now, you’re having your exposure to the environment, and the first night I was there I had to pull guard duty. And that was a little nerve-wracking, and I could swear that some of the trees grew feet when you’re working—when you’re on guard duty. Interviewer: “Okay. Did they—At this point, did you know what unit you were joining, or…?” I believe I—Yeah, I was with the 101st at that point, and then obviously I was with the 2nd of the 319th Artillery. And we stayed at Camp Evans, and then it was that following morning that they took me to my first firebase, which was Firebase Jack. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Okay, so now the 101st sometimes did an orientation for the new arrivals. The Screaming Eagle Replacement Training. The SERTS training. Did you not do that?” I don’t remember that. Interviewer: “Well, if the next day you went to your unit, then you didn’t.” Right. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, but you’re an artillerist, so that might be different than it would be for the infantry guys.” It might be. But they sent me right to an artillery base. Interviewer: “Right. Okay, so Firebase Jack. Now describe what that base was like. What kind of—What country was it in, and what did it look like?” (14:03) It was in the lower land—the lower lying land—and there was a very well, I guess, fortified—if that’s the right name—firebase. It was somewhat established by the time I got there, and it was a very well-arranged firebase. And I went, and that was really my first assignment. To go there. And then that’s when I met, you know, my commanding officer. Interviewer: “Okay, and talk a little bit about him.” He—The commanding officer was an E7, and he basically gave me a gun and responsibility. And I had a crew. It was already there obviously, and they were in country a while. And they taught me some things, and we got to learn each other’s ways and everything. Interviewer: “Okay, so you said commanding officer. You basically meant the—a battery’s top sergeant?” Yes, yes. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay. All right, but he assigns you to a gun crew. You join the gun crew. How do the guys in the gun crew that you join treat you?” Very well. We got along quite well. Very easily. You know, we got along because, you know, I just wanted to be a part of their team. And here they’re already in country, and I respected their knowledge and what they had. And we got to work together. Interviewer: “All right. Now how many men were in that gun crew when you joined it?” I believe in my initial Howitzer section I had five. Myself and four others. Interviewer: “All right. Now when you were back at Fort Sill, what was the official size of a Howitzer crew supposed to be?” �Tamburini, John Typically four or five. Interviewer: “Okay, so you—So you were full strength?” Yeah, probably. Yes. Yeah, you had your gunner, your assistant gunner, and then you had a couple guys that would hump ammo. So you got four and then five. You have typically five. Interviewer: “Okay. I guess, because sometimes gun crews would be under strength when they’re in the field.” Yeah. Interviewer: “All right, but at this point you’re full up.” We had a—We had a good crew. (16:09) Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and then how quickly do you start—Were you firing the piece right away, or was it quiet at Jack for a while?” We had fire missions every day and every night. You know, firing on enemy positions. There was always activity. Interviewer: “Okay, and so now what month was this that you made it to Vietnam?” I believe it was February. February, I believe, is when it’s time. Yeah, I’d have—Yeah, it was February that I went into country. Yes. Interviewer: “All right. Okay, and then how long did you stay at Jack that first time do you think?” I believe we stayed at Jack about a month and a half maybe. Two months. And then we went to Firebase Gladiator. We fired onto that location to secure that hill, and then we moved from Firebase Jack to Firebase Gladiator. Interviewer: “Okay. Now how was the Gladiator different from Jack?” Jack was basically a low-lying firebase at the foothills, whereas Gladiator was really just a mountaintop with a severe grade on each side. And that’s where we joined up with the 155 Howitzers on the—We were on the top section of Gladiator with the 105s, and the 155s are down lower. But, again, Gladiator was a very tight firebase with very little room to move. Interviewer: “Okay. I guess, you have pictures of it, and it looks basically like a fairly—like kind of a long, narrow hilltop with only a limited amount of flat space to put gun positions on.” �Tamburini, John Yes, yes. Interviewer: “All right, and what kind of protection did you have?” As far as…? Interviewer: “Either other troops or physical defenses.” (18:01) No, we had ourselves and just the troops that we had on Firebase Jack, and that was really it. And then, you know, the 155s. Interviewer: “Okay, but was there an infantry unit that was guarding it at that point, or…?” Not to my knowledge. No. No, it was just us. Interviewer: “Okay, so did you have to do—Did you have perimeter—Did you have guard duty as well as manning guns?” Yes, that’s one thing we did. Yeah, I did guard duty every night, and that’s one thing that I did do. Is I let the guys sleep as long as they could. And we typically had a fire mission like two o’clock in the morning or three o’clock in the morning on suspected enemy locations. And then it went right into the normal workday—if you want to call it that—or the normal routine. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now you come in as a sergeant. Are you taking over a gun crew right away or quickly?” Yes. Just took one over right away. Interviewer: “Okay, so you come in. You’re sort of the new guy. Okay, so you come in, you’re the new guy, you’re giving orders to these other guys, but they’ve all been there already.” That’s right. Interviewer: “What kind of relationship did—How did you approach that?” Well, I think it was a very—It was a very smooth transition, and we got along. And I don’t remember anything whatsoever where we had any conflict, any differences, or anything, and we just meshed together. And I never really—Regardless of the fact that I went over as a sergeant, I didn’t put myself above them. I knew I had more responsibility as a sergeant, but I didn’t put myself above them because we were all in the same situation—if I can say that—or same—We were there for the same, common mission. Interviewer: “Okay. Did you find that there were things about just ways of doing things there that were different from what you were trained to do?” �Tamburini, John Yes, definitely. It’s a—Yeah, some of the things were—Training was one thing, and you learned a lot of the basics and the procedures. (20:09) But when you went there, your procedures changed, and your routine changed as far as like doing a fire mission or what you did because there was no way that they could ever—I don’t think there was no way they could ever create that condition to one hundred percent stateside. You know, just for what you’re dealing with, the way the battery’s set up, the entire battery. Interviewer: “Okay, and—I don’t know—were there physical conditions or environmental things that made it harder to maintain the guns, or…?” Well, because, you know, you had the high humidity and the rain, but also—Yeah, I think that was really—You know, the humidity, the rain, the heat. You know, that affected you. Again, a different routine. You’re dealing with a total battery. You now have six guns versus twenty on one. It’s different procedures. You know, you can learn everything—We learned a lot stateside, but when you go into a complete, full war type of zone, it was different. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and while you were on Gladiator, did you have that first time—I mean, did you have any North Vietnamese trying to probe the perimeter, or did you get attacked at all?” No, we didn’t. Not on Gladiator. But we were very, very close to the jungle itself. I mean, we were right there. I mean, right on the edge. But we were fortunate. Interviewer: “Okay, so you didn’t get mortar attacks or anything like that?” Nothing. Not that I remember. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now while you’re out there, do you have any real sense of what’s going on anyplace else?” (22:02) Not really because at that point we—Because of the guns and the firepower we had, I created a sense of security—if I could say that—and we were like invincible. You know, here we have all the big guns, we’re invincible, we have the rifles, we have everything, and we can kick anybody’s ass. And you just created a—You had a—You created a sense of security within yourself, and you feel comfortable with the guys that you’re with. And we had good leadership. Interviewer: “Yeah. Now who’s your battery commander at this point?” Captain Rich. Interviewer: “Okay, and tell me a little bit about him.” Captain Rich was a—He came from the 1st Cavalry Division and quite a wiry guy. Very active but very supportive and very involved with the troops. And he was out there with you in the thin �Tamburini, John and the thick of it, and I had a lot of respect for him. And he just added to the whole group, you know, and he just kept everybody going. Interviewer: “Okay. Now when a fire mission gets called—gets ordered—what’s sort of your procedure? What do you do if you say, ‘Okay, we have a fire mission.’ Now what happens?” Well, I was primarily a gunner, and a gunner will set the azimuth of the gun. And then you have an assistant gunner who will set the elevation of the gun, and then you have a guy that’s going to be loading the breech. And he’s going to be responsible for cutting the bags of ammo because you have different charges. You have a charge of one through nine, and you also have different type of—different types of heads that you put on the artillery shells whether it’s a time delay fuse or whatever. (24:04) And that’s what—You get those commands, and then it was my responsibility to be the—to be the gunner. That all these commands were followed. And those commands came down from FDC. Interviewer: “Which is Fire Direction Control.” Yes, yes. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so they’re giving you specific coordinates and settings and…?” They’re giving you—They’re giving you azimuth, which is the direction of the gun. They’re giving you elevation, which is the height of the gun. They’re giving you charge, which is the distance that your artillery shell will go. Interviewer: “Right. Okay, and then how rapidly could you fire that gun?” It all depended upon your forward observer—how he wanted it fired—because you would do like a—Let’s say a location round, and then he would—He would adjust that. Whether he would walk it in or walk it out or make it go to the left or make it go to the right for the—You know, for the enemy positions. Interviewer: “Okay, but would there be points when the idea was to simply fire as many shells as possible at a particular target?” I think that’s when you had a good enemy target, and you were on the enemy. Then it would be like all hell breaks loose. Then you just fire as fast as you can. Interviewer: “And then how many rounds per minute do you think you could get off?” Hard to say because you’ve got to hump them, you’ve got to cut the bags of ammo, you’ve got to load them. Probably quite a few. I mean, per minute? That’s hard. I can’t remember, but, I mean, we would—We would do it. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “All right. Okay, so you now—You’re on Gladiator for a while, but at this point the firebase at Ripcord is getting established. And there’s operations going on around it, and then is that your next stop?” Yes, it was. Interviewer: “Okay. How do they get you from Gladiator to Ripcord?” (26:01) With a helicopter. With a crane. It what’s called a crane—like a helicopter where the Howitzer was hung in the middle—and that’s how we got transported. That’s how we got transported from Jack to Gladiator. Interviewer: “Okay, so they have sort of the Skycrane helicopters that’ll carry the artillery pieces, and then you ride in other helicopters?” Yes. Yeah, we ride the Hueys. Interviewer: “Okay. Now when you got to Ripcord, were there positions already established for your guns that they got dropped in, or did you have to build them?” We had to build them. We had to build all the—We had to build the entire base for the—for the artillery pieces. Interviewer: “All right, so what did that involve?” Quite a bit as far as like establishing an ammo bunker again, establishing a perimeter. The ammo was the most important thing. The ammo got protected first before you protected yourself, and— Which was kind of sort of, “Okay, why are we doing that?” But that was part of the procedure, and once you’d got your ammo protected, then you could build on protecting yourself or your people who are with you. And that’s really how Firebase Ripcord grew because we kept growing—You know, because of the amount of ammunition, we had to make our ammo bunkers much larger. Interviewer: “Okay. Now this was a pretty—Basically, you’re on top of a small mountain there. It’s a big piece of rock. Did you have engineers helping you blast out holes, or were you doing all this yourself?” No, just—We really—When we landed the gun there, it was really less like a—like a rocky, sandy soil type of thing, and that’s where, you know, once—When they put your gun in, that was it. You didn’t do anything. Interviewer: “Okay. You just build around it?” No, your gun just sat there. The only thing you built around it was your ammo bunkers. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Okay, but was there no kind of protection for the gun crew, or were you totally exposed?” The gun was totally exposed. (28:01) Yeah, we had no protection to the gun. Just the ammo. The ammo was more important. Interviewer: “All right, and then did you have—create sleeping holes or bunkers or anything like that?” The sleeping holes were on the side of the hill, and you crawled into a culvert, which was a makeshift shelter, and that’s how you slept. Or you slept on top of the ammo, which is more protected. Which I’ve done. Interviewer: “Okay, so you’re inside the ammo bunker. There’s something above you.” There were sandbags. Yeah, so you had some type of—You know, some type of protection. Interviewer: “Okay. When did you arrive on Ripcord do you think?” I believe it was May. Later on in May. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and at that point now there are infantry units kind of patrolling around the area and looking for enemy and occasionally finding them, but the fighting hadn’t gotten really intense yet. But did you still have a lot of fire missions?” Yes, we did. We did, and we had a—Again, being a sergeant, and every night we had our meeting about what was going on as far as like enemy activity or basically what we’re looking for within the next couple days. But we did have a lot of fire missions. We fired—We fired every day. Hundreds of rounds every day on potential sites. Interviewer: “Okay. Now before the beginning of July, which is when the sort of siege starts or whatever, was it pretty quiet in the sense that you weren’t getting shot at, or were there mortar rounds or rockets that would ever come in?” No, again, it was really—I kind of sort of become complacent—if that’s the right word—because here we went from Firebase Jack to Gladiator to Ripcord, and I thought that we—Excuse my French, but I thought we could kick anybody’s ass. (30:03) And, you know, we were—We were powerful, you know, and we could do anything. And every night—Because I was a sergeant, I had to go to a briefing every night, and they would tell you what the—You know, what kind of activity was going on and what to look for. And nothing really was really, you know, jumping out at you until the end of June. Interviewer: “Okay, and then right about at July 1st, you—The base starts to take mortar rounds.” �Tamburini, John Yeah, we had a meeting the last day in June, and they said that there’s a lot of enemy activity in the area and that we should be expecting some type of activity within the next day or so. And I went back, and I told my guys what’s going on. And I said, “You know, there’s going to be some activity.” And the first round came in about, I guess, 6:30, seven o’clock on July 1st, and then I realized that this is war. This is real. Interviewer: “Okay. Now did the—How close—So the—Were they using mostly mortars at this point? Was it mortar rounds coming in, or were there rockets, or…?” It was hard to say whether they were mortars or shells—you know, like an artillery shell— because there was just so much of it. You really couldn’t investigate the hole, I guess you could say, because, I mean, it was—I mean, it was blowing—It was blowing stuff everywhere. Interviewer: “Okay. Now you said that your gun was basically in an exposed position. Did the position take any hits, or did they always miss you?” No, it didn’t—Up until about July 6th or July 7th, it missed me, and then that’s when an incoming round came in. And it blew me back, and it happened so fast that when I—When I woke up, Captain Rich was standing over me, and he says, “Are you okay?” And I says, “I don’t know what happened.” Because I blanked out. (32:14) And he says, “You’ve got to get up. You’ve got to get back to your gun. You’ve got to get back on the gun.” And he says—And I was still dazed because I got—I got hit with an incoming round. And I went back, and I went back to the gun and continued fighting, not realizing that I was hit. And then that’s why—Well, I got awarded the Purple Heart, but I didn’t realize it at that time. Interviewer: “So it was shrapnel or rocks or something?” Yeah, it was shrapnel or—Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, but not enough to actually slow you down, or…?” Not enough to—No, it was—It was—I had the ability to go back and keep going. Interviewer: “Okay, and then did you have—Did a medic check you out later, or figure out if you were hit anywhere, or…?” Yeah, they did. I was hit, you know, mostly in my—in my arms and my hands and stuff, and there was like, you know, this—the bleeding obviously and—But I went back and continued, you know, with your—with the gun. Interviewer: “Okay. Now on the night of July 1st or in the very early morning on the 2nd, one of the line companies—Charlie Company—got hit on Hill 902, which was nearby. Now do you remember anything about that night, or was that not something your battery—You might have been too close even to support 902.” �Tamburini, John Yeah, I don’t remember that because, again, it seems like you’re—You almost had like tunnel vision because you were focused on your gun and your battery and what—You were trying to protect the perimeter and do your own fire missions. That’s—I mean, I didn’t really—I didn’t realize, you know, the other activity on the other hills except for Ripcord. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. You just—You just point the gun where they tell you to point it and fire and just do that, and now were there occasions when you could actually sort of look out or see tracer fire or artillery shells landing in other places or air strikes? I mean, would you ever be a spectator to the battle, or were you always just at the gun?” I was always at the gun because we—You had to stay at the gun because the amount of firing that you did, and you really had to make sure that you had enough artillery shells. You were humping artillery all day, and you were firing all day. (34:14) And you were even firing at night. Again, we started fire missions like two o’clock in the morning, and we would fire for a couple hours. And then come daybreak I would get the guys up, you know, because there’s only two of us at night that fired. And the other guys would be sleeping. Interviewer: “Were there occasions when you would have everybody up at night if there was a—You had to support a unit in the field, or…?” I don’t really remember having everybody up at night. Just myself and another fellow. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now we—I guess, what was—Before the sort of—the siege— Before July, what was sort of daily life like on the hilltop?” You—You were either preparing artillery shells, you know, for your next fire mission, or you were filling sandbags. And just really your normal activity, and that’s what your—That’s what your day consisted of. You know, pumping artillery shells, getting them out of the boxes, taking care of the Howitzer, and, again, just doing your fire missions. There wasn’t a day that you didn’t have several fire missions. Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah. What did you do for food?” C-rations and whatever package you can get from home, and then, if you were lucky, you got a hot meal. Interviewer: “Would they deliver a hot meal to the firebase occasionally, or…?” Yes. Yes, they did. Yeah. Firebase Jack was more of a—You got more hot meals—I guess you could say—out of a canteen or out of a cooler than you did at Gladiator or Ripcord because of its proximity to the camp. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay. All right, and so now once the siege gets going, then it was— You couldn’t really move around. You wouldn’t leave the gun position very much at all?” �Tamburini, John We—Well, we obviously—I think if I follow you correctly, our guns stayed in the same location, but our fire missions were on any type of enemy location that was called in. (36:08) And it got to the point where we were actually using the Howitzer as a rifle, and we were sighting down the gun tube on—We could actually see to—I guess it would be the south of us—where the enemy was actually running around, and they’re running around the hills. And we would direct fire on them, and they were just like ants. They would come out of one hole, go back in another hole, and that just went on every day. Interviewer: “Okay. Now your battery doesn’t—has a major crisis during the course of that siege. Can you talk about that? What happens to you?” As far as the—When it came time to the end? Interviewer: “Well, there’s the helicopter crash.” That’s—That was a Chinook that was bringing in the ammo in the sling, and he would always drop it off in front of my gun. And I would always go down, and he would unhook it. And I would talk to the guy laying in the belly of the Chinook, and, well, he would always, you know, say something to me. Or I’d, you know—You know, just talk to each other for a second or two, and then he would take off. Well, that one particular day—I think it was later on in July—the Chinook came in. I was down there. He unloaded the ammo, let the sling go, and the Chinook was starting to take off and got about forty feet above the ammo bunker. And it took on fire on a tail piece, and I could see the flames coming out of the tail piece of the Chinook. And I could see it starting to struggle, and the blades—You could just see it struggling, and it wasn’t getting altitude. And then, all of a sudden, the ship came down, and the guy that was in the belly of the Chinook fell out. (38:08) And the ship landed on him and pinned his leg to the top of the ammo bunker, and I went down there. And I talked to him, and he wanted me to cut his leg off because he couldn’t get out. And I says, “I can’t cut your leg off. I’m not a medic.” And when I says, “I’ll go get a medic—” And when I went to go get the medic, which is around the side of the base, and I came back, the whole ship was engulfed in flames. And that was it. I couldn’t do anything, but that’s—That’s what happened. Interviewer: “Okay, and now you’ve got a burning helicopter on top of an ammo bunker and a load of ammo right there, so now what happens?” It was the beginning of the end. The beginning of the end is that we knew that at this point that we had to abandon whatever we could. Well, do whatever we could do, and it got to the point where Captain Rich then said, “We have to—” He called my gun out, and he said, “You’ve got to put an incinerator grenade down your gun tube.” So I popped the incinerator grenade, and I put it down the gun tube. And it melted the breechblock they got inside, and they couldn’t use it against us. And then that was really a lot of the beginning. That was the beginning of the end. Interviewer: “Okay, but was the ammunition now blowing off? I mean, was it—Were you—” Well, we had to fire—Yeah, the Chinook was on top of the ammo bunker. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Yeah, because that blows up.” Yes, it does. Interviewer: “Okay, and then basically that now—Did that damage your gun already, or was the gun not affected by the blast, or…?” Oh, yeah, well, the gun wasn’t damaged by the blast. The gun was damaged by Captain Rich telling me to put the incinerator grenade down the tube. (40:02) Interviewer: “Okay, so the expectation was that—I guess, at this point why were you doing—I guess I’m not sure I understand why you would be destroying the gun if the gun itself hadn’t been damaged yet, and you still hold the hilltop.” Well, because we’re being—I think at that point I think we knew that—If I—We had really—I think it was just a lot of chaos, and I think there was—At that point the organization maybe fell apart if I could say that, and we just knew that there wasn’t much more we could do because the ammo bunker started to go up. Interviewer: “Yeah, and if the ammo bunkers blow up, then wouldn’t that damage the guns, or…?” It would. It would. It was right in front of the gun. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay, so this is before the ammo bunker blows up. You actually already damage—destroy the gun?” If I remember that, yes. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and you think that was happening at the other gun positions at the same time, or…?” Well, Captain Rich was with my gun, and he stayed right with my gun until the end. Interviewer: “Okay, and when the ammo starts to cook off, do you get out of there and find a place to take cover, or…?” Yeah, we—We had to basically just defend ourselves the best we could, and then I think that was probably around the nineteenth of July. Interviewer: “Yeah, I think the eighteenth is the day that the crash—The helicopter crash. But yeah, and the base gets abandoned on like the twenty-third. So—And because you’re artillery, battery, what gets hit—affected that way—That had a lot to do with it. But okay, so now that—Now that that’s happened and your battery’s not there, what happens to you?” �Tamburini, John I leave because, you know—Because, again, we’re starting to—We’ve lost all—I don't’ want to say sense of—How can I put it? Like chain of command. It was quite chaotic, and basically it was like a—You’ve got to run for your own life, and people, you know—People were just going wherever they could to find shelter, and then that’s when I—That’s when I knew that we were being overrun, and I knew that I had to get—I’ve got to get away from the gun, and I had to get to another safer location. (42:19) And then that’s when—I had lost everything that I had, and I low crawled from where my gun position was to the other side of the base towards the A Shau Valley side. And I went over the side of a hill, and I found an opening. And when I looked in the opening, I saw a set of eyes in the back of the opening, and I figured this is it. This is—This is going to be my grave, and I said—At that point I had nothing left in me anyhow because we were taking on tear gas, and I was throwing up. I couldn’t throw up anymore. And then I went, and I found this hole. And in the back of this hole there was these two eyes, and I went, “Hello. G.I.?” And he goes, “G.I.” And I went in there, and I stayed in there for a while. I believe it was until the next morning. I don’t know who he was. I don’t know his name. I know he was a G.I., and it was just—We were just being overrun at this point. Just—It was complete chaos. Interviewer: “Okay, but there’s not enemies storming up the hill. You’re just running— There’s just confusion on top of the hill.” There was confusion, but there was also still incoming coming in. Yeah, and, you know, basically there was no—There was no organization at that point. Interviewer: “Okay, so you’re there overnight, and then in the morning, do you go look out to see what’s happening? Or does someone come find you?” Well, I realized that—Come morning I realized that everybody’s being taken off the base on the other side of the—of Ripcord, and I knew I had to get over there to get—to get taken off of there. (44:05) And so what I did was when I thought that it was clear enough for me to get over there, I low crawled to the other side of the firebase and then got on a chopper, and I was taken back to Camp Evans. Interviewer: “All right, and then did you find—Was the rest of the battery kind of already there, or…?” We kind of sort of put everybody together. I know I met Captain Rich. I guess we met somebody other—I don’t remember how many of the other guys were there at that point, but we kind of sort of put our group back together if I could say that, got a new set of orders or a new sense of direction, stayed—I think we stayed at Camp Evans one day, and then the next day we went down to Firebase Bastogne. Interviewer: “Okay. Now were there guns there for you to use, or did you—they have to fly in new guns, or…?” They flew new guns in for us. Yeah. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Okay. Now Captain Rich at some point gets hit. Was that the end of Ripcord, or was that…?” Captain Rich got hit on Ripcord. He didn’t get hit on Bastogne. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay, so he went back, or he was back on Ripcord. Because I think he was wounded pretty badly.” He was wounded supposedly—He was wounded several times. Some of the stories that I’ve read about him he was wounded five times, but I do know that on Firebase Ripcord—I know that he was hit a couple times. Maybe three times. Interviewer: “Okay, but you remember him being back at Evans when you came back?” Yes. Yeah, we were—We were all there. Interviewer: “All right. Now—And then did he join you at Bastogne, or was he hit on Ripcord and then gone, or…?” Pardon? Interviewer: “Was—Did he go—Did he join you at Bastogne, or was he wounded badly enough that he didn’t come back?” No, he was—He was—He stayed active. Captain Rich stayed active as well. Yeah, we—Yeah, he stayed active as well with me or with the group. With the platoon. And, like I said, we met back at Camp Evans. Interviewer: “Right. Okay, but then you didn’t really get any time to—You didn’t really get any time off there.” (46:02) No, no. I got time off for maybe a half a day, maybe a day, and then we were back out to Bastogne. Interviewer: “All right. Now what was Bastogne like?” Not so much on a hilltop. If I remember correctly, we weren’t there very long. It was kind of sort of like a—I want to say like a mild terrain, but it wasn’t like Ripcord or Gladiator. It was a more low-lying type of area—not a severe hilltop—but it was elevated. Interviewer: “Okay, and was it a well-established base?” The part we had, no. No, we had established that base. Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and did you get regular fire missions from there?” �Tamburini, John Yes, we did. Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. Okay, and then about how long do you think you stayed there?” I think we stayed there about a month. Month and a half. Interviewer: “Okay, and do you recall if that base ever got either attacked or probed while you were there?” No, we didn’t. No. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now by the time you—Now while you’re at Bastogne, was the monsoon starting yet, or would that come later?” I think it might have started then. Interviewer: “Because you’ve got—You’ve got pictures of a Howitzer in the mud.” I—Yeah, that might be at Bastogne, or that’s early parts of Jack. Going back to Firebase Jack. Where we went back to Firebase Jack again. Interviewer: “Okay, and then is Jack where you spent the last part of your tour?” Yes, that’s where it was. Interviewer: “Okay. Now once you get back to Jack, is it any quieter than it had been before, or do you still have the same number of fire missions?” Yeah, we did. We did have—But—We did have the fire missions but not as intense as Gladiator and Ripcord. Not as many, but we did have them. Interviewer: “Okay, and do you think more of them might have been harassment and interdiction, or were there more routine kinds of fires as opposed to defending a unit or something?” I’m sorry. What— Interviewer: “Well, do you think—Well, there are different kinds of fire missions, and some of them are simply checking ranges or firing harassment and interdiction.” (48:02) I think all were enemy locations because all the fire missions we did were enemy locations that were called in. Yeah, I don’t think we ever did any like—Maybe if you want to call them harassment maybe—I never really thought of it that way or heard of it, but we always did fire missions that were called in from the— �Tamburini, John Interviewers: “Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s probably the kind of thing that the fire direction control people know about. You know, is this kind, this kind. But they’re just telling you, ‘Go fire x number of rounds at this place.’” Yeah, because all our directions came from the fire direction center. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now did you get any time off? Did you get any R&R or anything like that?” When I initially went there, I wanted to go to—I forget the name of the place. Anyhow, I had two choices—Hawaii or someplace else—and I didn’t choose Hawaii. And I didn’t choose— And I choose the other—I chose the other place, and as I got more involved, I felt more of a responsibility to the men. And I passed up on the R&R completely, and I said to myself, “I think if I ever get a taste of civilian life after being here—” I don’t think I would’ve went back. I would’ve went back probably, but it would’ve been very difficult. Interviewer: “Okay, so you didn’t—But you did get at least one bit of recreation in because you went to a Bob Hope show, right?” Yeah. One day. Interviewer: “Okay, and so was that around Christmastime, or…?” Yeah, it was The Bob Hope Show. I mean, I guess it had to be. Yeah. I didn’t—Everything was a—Your time element is a blur. You know, there is no—That’s one thing I thought of. There’s no Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday—There’s no—You don’t stop on Sunday because it’s a day of worship. You—There’s—That’s one thing that I’ve got to say. There was no— There was no days. You didn’t know whether it was Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Thursday, Tuesday—All you knew is the sun came up, and the sun went down. Interviewer: “All right, so where was The Bob Hope Show?” Camp Eagle. Interviewer: “Okay, so Phu Bai. All right, and what do you remember about that?” I could hardly see anybody because I was so far back. (50:02) I saw—I knew he was up there, and I forget who he was with. You know, he was with another singer. Interviewer: “Could you hear anything at least, or…?” Could I see? Interviewer: “Or could you hear anything?” �Tamburini, John No, no, because your ears are—Your ears are ringing because of all of the artillery fighting that you’re doing. Like even right now my ears are ringing. I mean, and that’s why I, you know—I have a bad hearing loss. Interviewer: “All right. Okay, but it was a day doing something different from normal.” Yes. Yes, it was. Yeah. Interviewer: “All right, and now when you got toward the end of your tour, were you keeping a short-timer’s calendar, or…?” Yes, I was, and I did have it marked off. My fiancée or who’s my wife today has sent me one, and I was marking it off. And I guess I got down to maybe the last two weeks or three weeks. You know, I’d mark down the days, and then, all of a sudden, I had a nice notice that I can go home early. So I left Firebase Jack and went back, had my re-up speech, which I didn’t take. They were going to give me another stripe, which I didn’t take. I would’ve been an E6 probably making $370 a month instead of 315, but no, I wanted to go home. Interviewer: “All right, so what’s the process for getting you home?” From Firebase Jack to Camp Evans, Camp Evans to Cam Ranh Bay, Cam Ranh Bay on a jet to Fort Lewis, Fort Lewis with a change of clothes and your uniform and… Interviewer: “Okay. What was it like flying out of Vietnam? They put you on a plane. You’ve got pictures, so what was going on?” (52:08) First of all, I think, disbelief that it was over. Interviewer: “Because you said when you got on the plane, the lights were out.” There were no lights on. It was complete darkness. You couldn’t see your hand in front of your face. They paraded you—more or less—down this walkway onto this plane. You sat in a plane that was completely dark. No lights, no nothing. Nothing. And the next thing you know the plane is taking off, and it’s taxiing down the runway. Again, no lights, no nothing. No blinker lights on the plane. And we get to—I guess it was some kind of elevation, and then, all of a sudden, the lights come on. And it’s party time, and you’re going home. Interviewer: “All right, and was there a party in effect, or were people quiet? Or how did people behave?” No, I think—I think everybody was really happy. Well, they were, but you think about—You think about who you left behind. Interviewer: “So you’re there, you’re just on the plane, and you’re just sort of thinking about whatever.” �Tamburini, John You’re—I think it’s almost like you’re in shock. It’s over. It’s behind you. (54:00) It’s over. It’s behind you. You have second thoughts of what you left behind. Interviewer: “Was it hard to leave the men from your crew?” What’s that? Interviewer: “Was it hard to leave your men behind you?” Yeah, it was because you—You were—You were really a family. You had a common—You had a common bond, you know, even though, you know, there are differences and everything. You had a common bond, and you developed a friendship. But you had a good working relationship. Again, like I was, you know, being a sergeant and stuff. Yeah, but I felt like I was one of the guys. I didn’t, you know, push around my rank. Interviewer: “Okay. Now the way Vietnam worked, people would go, and they would stay for a year. And so over the course of your year, you would’ve gone from being the new guy to the old guy, and the men in your crew would’ve been all ones who came in after you did.” Right. Interviewer: “Okay. Now did your crew take any casualties, or did you lose anybody for— Other than just rotating out?” Well, we lost the one sergeant—an E7—on Ripcord. Yeah, he was—He was a lifer. That one sticks in my mind the most. There might have been other casualties that, again— Interviewer: “But not from your crew.” No, no. Interviewer: “All right. Yeah. Okay, so yeah. So basically that’s a situation where, you know, by the time—I mean, you knew everybody, and they all knew you. And you were that kind of group.” You—Yeah, you constantly—The thing that, you know—that I remember is that when I went over there, I had a group or—You know, group—Crew of guys. And then in that group obviously some of them were there already seven months, eight months. Some of them—They were there two months, and they would rotate out. (56:09) And then it also seemed like, you know, when we did one move to another move, you know, they would change. They would maybe go to a different battery section, or they would go to a different Howitzer section. But Captain Rich always tried to keep every Howitzer section manned properly, and, you know, I can only say that I can only remember really having, I think, one or two guys with me the longest period of time, which was maybe six months because there was always a rotation. It’s not that you went in with a group and stay with that group for that whole tour. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “And when new guys came in, how did you treat them?” The new guys? Interviewer: “Yeah.” Oh, well, I think I tried to keep everybody as an equal, but I also tried to stress to them that, you know, it’s war. And, you know, not to go backwards here, but to go back to Firebase Ripcord— Because it had so many casualties, somehow they shipped in three guys from the back from Camp Evans that had no experience, and they were in the gun—The gun crew behind me. The gun pit behind me. And we had an incoming round come in, and that incoming round went off. And I said to the guys—I says, “Don’t go looking for souvenirs.” And I said, “There’s another shell behind it.” And they didn’t listen to me, and wouldn’t you know that there’s another artillery shell coming in behind it and killed all three of them. It virtually took their faces off. It killed all three of them like in a split-second, and I can—I can still picture that to this day. And I said, “Don’t go looking—Don’t go looking for souvenirs.” (58:00) But, I mean, that was the faces of what we were up against. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay, so now you fly back to the States. Now is your enlistment basically up at this point? Do they let you out of the army when you get back to the States, or…?” Yes, yes. They gave me my papers at Fort Lewis, Washington. Interviewer: “Okay. Now when you went home, did you encounter any protestors anyplace, or did you hear about them?” Yeah. Yeah, my own cousin. You know, and I guess he had different thoughts, and it got to the point where I kind of sort of had a fight with him if I could say that. Interviewer: “But on the trip back like when you’re at the airports or things like that, you didn’t see anybody?” No, no. Interviewer: “Did you fly home in uniform, or did you change clothes?” Yeah, I flew home in uniform. Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, because sometimes people had problems, and sometimes they didn’t. So—But you were fine. Okay, and now once you get back home, what do you do?” Kind of sort of go into a cocoon. I didn’t sleep in bed for probably—maybe about five weeks, six weeks. I slept on the floor. Didn’t go back to work. Basically, just hung out. I couldn’t sleep in a �Tamburini, John bed because I didn’t feel comfortable. I needed something hard to sleep on. And then I kind of sort of went back to work part-time and got back into routine a little bit more. Interviewer: “Okay, and what kind of work were you doing?” Back then I was doing engineering and surveying, but yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. Is that what you had trained for when you were in college, or is it just something you—Did you learn it somewhere?” No, I went—After high school, I went into what they called a building construction technology course, which we talked about, but when I was there, I was working part-time at an engineering firm. (1:00:14) And then when I got back, I went back to work for that engineering firm. Interviewer: “All right, and did you stay with them or move around, or…?” I stayed with them, and then I felt that I wanted to do something different. I wanted to be outside more for some reason, and then I went to another engineering firm who put me outside because I wanted to be outside. I didn’t want to be in an office, and then I went there and thought that I had enough of that. I quit that. I basically stopped working for a while, and then I went to pump gas at a Hess gas station. And then some guy came in and offered me a job to do carpentry work. I took that, and I kept that my career. Interviewer: “How long a timespan was it before you wound up doing the carpentry work? I mean, how many years do you think were involved in there?” Probably about three to four years. Interviewer: “Okay. Now along the way did you get married?” Yes, I did. I got married six months after I was—after I came back. Interviewer: “Okay, and was your—Did your wife think that you were in some ways a different person from the guy who left, or did she ever notice changes, or…?” I think so. I—That’s something you’d probably have to ask her. Yeah, I—I knew she saw a different person. You know, I came back with a different outlook on life, and I know it was a different outlook on life. (1:02:00) And I was obviously—You know, I respected her a lot that— Because we got engaged before I went to Vietnam, which I thought was pretty stupid, because she was the kind of woman that—I think she would’ve stayed devoted to me if I was killed, and I don’t think that would’ve been fair to her. But it didn’t work out that way. But, you know, I think she saw a different person in me from when I left. Interviewer: “Okay. Now aside from just the business about not wanting to sleep in a bed for a while, did you have other kind of readjustments you had to make once you got back?” �Tamburini, John Yeah, I—In the service, you’re very regimented, and like one night I went for—I wanted to go get some cold cuts one night, and I remember this. And I went to a deli, and it was—The deli closed at nine—at ten o’clock or something. And I was there like 9:30, quarter to ten, and I wanted to order some cold cuts. And they wouldn’t—They wouldn’t cut the cold cuts for me because—They said, “It’s too close to closing. I don’t want to clean the machine again.” And I kind of sort of went off on him and probably said some words I shouldn’t have said because— “You’re open until ten o’clock. Why can’t I get my cold cuts until ten o’clock?” I’ve had bursts like that, so—Because, again, I just felt that I was regimented. I mean, if you’re open until ten, you’re open until ten. Interviewer: “So the world should work like the army?” Yeah. So, I mean, I had adjustments to make, and I had to adjust myself back to what was the norm here. Interviewer: “Did you have to change your language?” Yes. Yeah, I did. I had to watch what I said and who I said it to. Interviewer: “All right. Now did you ever get diagnosed with PTSD or anything like that, or have you sought counseling? Or have you…?” Yes. PTSD, yes. Right now I receive counseling every two to three weeks with a—my doctor, Dr. Morgan, who has been a tremendous help. (1:04:11) And no, he’s helped me out quite a bit. Interviewer: “Okay. Now I want to back up to some other things about being in the service and being in Vietnam. Now you spent most of your time that year in Vietnam in the field. You’re on firebases. You’re not spending a lot of time even at a place like Phu Bai or Camp Evans. Okay. Now in those situations out in the field what were race relations like? You had black soldiers, white soldiers…” I did have an incident one night on guard duty with another soldier who was black, and somehow, somewhere he got a hold of some marijuana. And I got a little upset because I could smell it, and I said to him—I says, “I know you’re—You’re a little high.” I says, “But you’re not going to be any good to me.” I says, “If the enemy comes through the perimeter—” I says, “You’re not going to be any good to me.” I says, “So I’m going to probably—You know, you’re going to probably be first, and they’re going to be second.” So—And then ever since then, we really—It was a tough relationship, but I had to do it because, again, I was in charge. Interviewer: “But in a way that particular issue could’ve been with anybody.” Yeah. Interviewer: “But otherwise basically did people just get along with each other because they’re all on the same team?” �Tamburini, John Yeah. Oh, yeah, we all—We all formed a bond because we all had a common mission. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay. Now when you were back on a big base like Evans or at Phu Bai or someplace like that, did the races sort of segregate themselves, or did you still stay with the same group?” (1:06:12) No. No, we were all basically—We all were in it for the same thing. It’s just that the guard duty to me was extremely important. Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay, and aside from that one particular instant with marijuana, did you notice much by way of drug use or anything like that?” No. Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah, and also did you have—encounter many Vietnamese either civilian or military?” The Vietnamese—Well, obviously, other than the enemy, but back at the base camps you saw them. And I treated them with respect. I didn’t—I didn’t do anything—I just didn’t—I just treated them with respect. At that point, to me, they weren’t the enemy. Interviewer: “Yeah, and what kind of jobs do they do as far as you can tell?” It seemed like they did—Well, I was only back there like one time. It seemed like they did like cleaning if I could say that like with the hooches and stuff. But, again, it’s so—I think it was one day that I was there. Interviewer: “Yeah, and you weren’t really in places where there were villages because up in the hills you don’t have civilians.” No, no, no. No, you didn’t—You didn’t have much—No, because you were constantly on a base. Interviewer: “Okay, and then when you come back, you know, did you—Once you were back, did you follow the news of the war itself or pay attention to the anti-war movement, or did you just tune those things out?” I did follow it, and I understood more about it. And I also—I wanted to know what was going on because of the guys that I left there, and then as time went on, you know, it was really coming to an end. It was winding down. (1:08:03) Interviewer: “And when you came back, did you get involved with veterans organizations, or did you stay out of those?” Yes, I did. I went to—I joined a local VFW. I joined a local American Legion. What else? And that’s really—That’s the only two organizations that I joined, and then later on I joined the Purple Heart. �Tamburini, John Interviewer: “Right. Okay. Now where you were were the VFW and the Legion receptive to Vietnam veterans, or did they treat you different?” No, I think there was a lot of respect. A lot. And they—They had a lot of respect for them. Interviewer: “Okay, and were there a number of Vietnam veterans joining those at that time, or were you kind of unusual?” With the VFW there were quite a few Vietnam veterans. The American Legion not so much. More with the VFW. Interviewer: “Yeah. All right, because in some areas the VFW didn’t always treat the Vietnam guys well just depending on like where you were.” Yeah, I—I’ve heard that, but we even had our wedding reception at the VFW, you know, when we got married. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now, I guess, to think back to the time that you spent in the military and in Vietnam, are there other particular impressions or memories or things that stand out in your mind that you haven’t brought into the story yet?” Not right now that I can think of. I mean, you know, so much in my mind, and attention right now is focused on, you know, what I experienced at Firebase Ripcord. You know, with the reunion. And I had the opportunity to meet somebody just a little while ago. Interviewer: “Okay, and then at what point did you connect with Ripcord Association?” With a friend of mine who lives in Bridgewater. Who doesn’t live too far from me. About ten miles. (1:10:00) I knew him quite a few years ago at where he worked and never really knew, I guess, about Firebase Ripcord—the reunion—until I started talking to him again more recently. And then he’s the one that said, “Why don’t you come down? You can meet some friends of yours or, you know, some other guys that you were with.” And I’m happy I did. Interviewer: “Okay, so this is your first time down here?” Yes, it is. Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah. All right. Now, I guess, finally—I guess, to look back at the time that you spent in the service, how do you think that affected you, or what did you learn from it?” I’ve learned discipline. I mean, I love the country, and I would do anything to defend the country. I get a little upset with—You know, when I see some things that go on in the country. I think it would be a good idea that it would be mandatory that they kind of sort of enact—I don’t want to say the draft again—that it’s mandatory that somebody serve some type of time in the �Tamburini, John service, any branch of the service maybe for two years. And I think it would give everybody a good baseline of discipline. A lot of people out there today—A lot of young people out there today—I’m not—I’m not jealous of it, but I think, you know, they have the world in front of them. And it’s okay, but I think there’s that other line of discipline, which I know I definitely have—Which it’s given me. Interviewer: “All right. Well, the whole thing makes for a pretty good story, so thank you very much for taking the time to share it.” Yeah, you’re welcome. Thank you. (1:11:48) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_TamburiniJ2279V Title A name given to the resource Tamburini, John (Interview transcript and video), 2018 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-11-02 Description An account of the resource John Tamburini was born in New Brunswick, New Jersey, in 1948. He graduated high school in 1966 and entered a two-year program at a technical institute before recieving his draft notice in 1969. Tamburini underwent Basic Training at Fort Dix, New Jersey, and then reported to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, for advanced training where he opted to join the Noncommissioned Officers program. He was deployed to Vietnam in 1970 where he served in the 2nd of the 319th Artillery Battalion, 101st Airborne and was stationed at firebases Jack, Gladiator, Ripcord, and Bastogne. His unit participated in the siege of Firebase Ripcord during which he recieved the Purple Heart for continuing to fight even after being hit during a gunfight. After only a year in Vietnam, Tamburini recieved an early-out and returned to the U.S. He then began part-time work at an engineering firm and later switched to carpentry, which he continued to work for the rest of his career. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tamburini, John P. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cdf1ab4ca2e9169931e39b1c3eef8237.mp4 654d3f05c4e3e47b8451d711830eaa7f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d0e62bbd9b451f652400723c17917635.pdf e300edc26d03bcb85dfacc98f26cd4e7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Carol Sutton Interview Length: (20.23) Interviewed by Dr. James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Interviewer: This interview is a joint production of WKTV voices, the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project, and the Silversides Museum in Muskegon, Michigan. We are in fact at the Silversides Museum in Muskegon and we're talking first with Carole Sutton of Muskegon. So, Carol, begin with some background on yourself and to begin with where and when were you born. I was born in Davis, West Virginia in February 23, 1940. Interviewer: Okay and did you grow up there, or did you move around? (1.02) I grew up there until I was 18, then I went to the University and then transferred there to Frances Payne Bolton School of Nursing in Cleveland, Ohio. Interviewer: Okay, so let's back up a little bit, what was your family doing for a living when you were growing up? My dad originally worked in the mines and then he became an engineer on the railroad and we had a garage and my brother-in-law ran that when my father was away. �Interviewer: Okay and so with that, that helped you be able to finish stay in high school and then go on to college? As they could afford to do that. Right. Interviewer: Alright and then what did you study in college? Well I started out with basic courses towards my medical degree, and then I decided maybe I don't want to do that, maybe I'll just be a nurse. Interviewer: Okay so you were thinking about being a doctor? Right and then I decided maybe math and chemistry were not my forte alright so.. Interviewer: So, did you then basically do pre-nursing or? Yes. Interviewer: Okay but you did not get it, you weren't yet a nurse at the point when you finished there? No. �Interviewer: Okay and so when did you leave college? (2.13) I graduated in 1963 okay and then I took a trip with some friends to Europe and- and then we drove down and flew to North Africa and traveled around through the Middle East. Interviewer: Okay. And after that I joined the Air Force. Interviewer: Alright so, I mean how did you wind up making that extended tour? Well a friend of mine had a father that was in the Air Force in Tripoli, North Africa and so we decided we want to go on a trip. So, we started saving our money and every time I wanted to spend more money my friend would say, “remember we're going on a trip.” So, it was a fantastic trip. We took a freighter to Europe and all young people were on it and a young captain and it was a great experience. Interviewer: Alright now was it just a group of- of women traveling together or did you have some men? No there were I think a couple people were men and one was going back home to Holland and another to Germany, but I think there were more women. �Interviewer: Okay but there was a whole group of you? Yes, well the freighter only holds 12, so we had 11. Someone canceled at the last minute. Interviewer: Okay how long did the trip on the freighter take? (3.34) Oh, gee it's been so long ago it was probably nine days or something. Interviewer: Okay they do have decent weather or? Oh, they said it was the nicest crossing that they’d had, and I thought well I wonder about that, because you're still like this when you see the sky on one side and then the other. Interviewer: Alright and so what countries did you visit? We went all through Europe, like we ended in Belgium and then we went to Germany, and France, and Belgium, Italy, and then we turned the car in and then flew to North Africa where my friend's parents were and stayed there while right on the Mediterranean enjoying the water. And then we went to Egypt, and Lebanon, Greece... it's so hard to remember when all of a sudden, I start to think about it. �Interviewer: Oh yeah, and I guess at that point the dollar was pretty strong. (4.32) Oh, it was very strong. Interviewer: So, you could afford to do that kind of thing, you go a decade later it would have been a little bit trickier. Of course, salaries were less too. Interviewer: Yeah. Alright so you kind of had your- your World Tour adventure and then you came back and then nursing school was the next stop? No, I'd already finished school. Interviewer: Okay. …and then I went to the Air Force, but we went to basic training in Montgomery, Alabama which was a farce at that time for officers. They wanted us to at least be able to go through the parade and the captain would say, “come on ladies we have to do this.” I mean it was so lax and fun. 5.16 �Interviewer: Just to clarify, did you get through nursing training at West Virginia or was that at? Well I did two years pre-West Virginia and three at Cleveland Ohio. Interviewer: Right right, okay and then so you do that then you take your trip. Right. Interviewer: Okay how did you wind up joining the Air Force? Well I planned to join the Navy and two of my friends decided, one to get married another to go to Texas. So, I thought “hmm okay.” I just called up the Air Force recruiter, he came right over. That's how it started. Interviewer: Okay, and so then when do you actually arrive in Montgomery for your... It was May sixty-five. Interviewer: Sixty-five. Yeah. Interviewer: Okay and is this Maxwell Air Force Base or? �Yes. Interviewer: Okay alright and the group that you're training with were they all women? They- that was their class that had the most women of any of them, lucky for us there were two men. And they had like psychologists and most of them were nurses. I can't remember what the other one did but... (6.25) Interviewer: Okay and then just to clarify you're going in basically as an officer? Right second lieutenant to start with. Interviewer: Because nurses are all officers. Did they explain to you why you got to come in as an officer? No, I just seemed to know that you know, from being around a lot of people in the military. Interviewer: Okay now that the basic training that you got, what did that actually consist of? Well we did a camp out and went out in the swamps and found, what would you call it? Like you'd find a little wooden things that would tell you where to go next, or I'm not �trying to think what, not ingredients what you call it, coordinates or something. And that was… and we didn't do too much. Met in the mornings and went over things all together. And the campout was fun though. Interviewer: Alright I mean did they try to- try to train you how to march or anything like that? Just that part so that we could at least be in the parade at the end of the… the experience. (7.37) Interviewer: Okay, now sometimes for the men, at least for the enlisted men there's a lot of attention to kind of the spit-and-polish. And how to wear the uniform and how to clean things. Did you get some of that? None of that. Interviewer: Okay, they had just given up or weren’t trying? I think at that time you know you're gonna be a nurse, and they didn't really think about you're going out like to Vietnam like some of them went. Interviewer: Yeah and of course in 65 it wasn't yet clear how much of that there was going to be, because it's only beginning to escalate at that point. Alright now when you went there while you �were training there did you consider the possibility that you might go overseas, or do you want to go overseas? Well I didn't really think about it at that time. Interviewer: Okay, alright so once you've finished the basic training where do they send you? To Wilford Hall, Lackland Air Force Base. Interviewer: Okay Lackland is a big base in San Antonio. Right, where they train. Interviewer: Okay and then when you- what kind of reception do you get when you arrive there? Well I was pretty nervous, but everybody was, you know, we already knew where we were going to be in Wilford Hall, but it was just like anything else it's a little nerve-wracking to start with until you adjust and kind of get your feet on the ground there. (8.51) Interviewer: Okay did they do anything to orient you or help you get acquainted with the place or do they just, just you know… �As far as I remember they orient you to where different areas are because it's a big area. Interviewer: Okay, now describe the facility itself, what was Wilford like? how big was it? what was there? It was pretty big, I can't remember now what all was there, but I know I got assigned to OB and gynecology. So, I spent most of my time there. Interviewer: Okay and assumedly a lot of the patients were the wives of the men based there? Right right right. Okay and what kind of living accommodations did you have? (9.33) Oh, I lived in an apartment with two other girls. Interviewer: Okay so you've got to be off the base? Right. Interviewer: Okay and did you have a car? �Yes. Interviewer: Okay and what was the daily routine like? Well as far as my work? Interviewer: Yep. Well I started out being on days, just for a while to get oriented like. As being a nurse I never drew blood before, so they sent me right to the lab to draw blood and my first patient was a doctor and I missed on the first time. But after that then I didn't go there anymore because we would draw the patient's blood just like their him hemoglobin hematocrit would be drawn and sent down to the lab. Interviewer: Okay and so then normally once you're-you’re in there what are you doing day-today? Well just taking care of the patients, you know. Interviewer: So essentially the same kinds of things nurses- That you do in a regular hospital, yes. �Interviewer: Okay now were there things about that job that made a different from being in a civilian hospital? I think pretty much the same at that time, because now they do so much more than we did back then. Interviewer: Okay and you said you worked days to begin with? Yeah and then I was on evenings and nights depending on what your schedule was. (11.02) Interviewer: Okay and how long would the shifts be? Back then it was only eight hours. Interviewer: alright and then was it five days a week or six? We had every third weekend off. So, it varied during the week. Interviewer: alright and what was what- what was the atmosphere like there, just in terms of being a young woman living in a place like this. I mean how did people treat you or… �I don't think they treated me any different than most people do. I get along pretty well as most people anyway. But I remember back then we had one nurse that was talking about, she was so sad she couldn't go march with Martin Luther King back then. Interviewer: Now was this facility, was this integrated? Did you have black nurses there? Oh yeah, she was a black nurse. Interviewer: okay and with their a fair number of black personnel on the base? Oh yes. Interviewer: Okay now this is still Texas in 1965-66. Right yes. Interviewer: When you go off the base were you aware at all of racial tensions or things like that? No. (12.13) �Interviewer: Okay so it just wasn't... and by then I guess you don't have segregated drinking fountains or anything like that? No, but one of the girls from the South certainly let us know how our northerners did not know about being in the South. Interviewer: Well what kind- were their customs or things that you weren't aware of? I mean aside from the race issue that… No. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now when you went into the Air Force how long did you expect to stay? I was expecting to be a career woman. (12.49) Interviewer: Okay. And then I met my husband. Interviewer: Okay. �He was working, well on the labor and delivery unit and someone told him there was a tall nurse over there. So, he came over to see who it was and talked to me off and on, and then I thought, well I kind of liked him. So, I invited him over. Interviewer: What were the rules for- for fraternization? Well they were a little more strict then. And Michael had to get a, when we were going to get married, he had to get some type of release that said, like “first lieutenant Carol Anne Sutton” you know, and his name and everything. And they told him he can't go to the officer's club and he said, “oh gee maybe I won't get married then.” He got into a little trouble for that. Interviewer: But it was- it was still allowable, it wasn't totally forbidden. Yeah, right. They didn't encourage it of course. (13.49) Interviewer: Yeah well, the stereotype that you get at least for like a TV show MASH or things like this. Is it's the nurses and the doctors are carrying on and so forth and you- you wind up with an enlisted man? Yeah. �Interviewer: Now was that actually more common for if the nurses were gonna get involved they might be getting lovely enlisted rather than doctors? No, I think whatever. (14.15) Interviewer: Okay because I have had a nurse explain to me at some point that the enlisted men were more your own age and had more in common with you, and the doctors were older and too many were married. So, they shouldn't be doing anything. Right. Interviewer: Okay but this just kind of happened? Alright and then how does- so you- so when do you get married? We got married in July of 66 and then 11 months later he went to Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay and then what did you do while he was in Vietnam? Work! Interviewer: Okay, so you just stayed on? �Right. Interviewer: Alright now were you working longer than your contractual obligation? because when you signed up… Yeah, yeah you- I believe it was two years. Interviewer: Okay, so you signed up and you had to be full-time active duty for two years. Right at least. Interviewer: Okay but you wind up extending and then staying for a third because at that point you might as well? (15.12) Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Alright and then while he was in, well I guess how did you feel about him going to Vietnam? I wasn't too happy about it because of course you're newly married and all in love and excited and you worry that they're not coming back. �Interviewer: Alright and then how much communication did you have with him while he was overseas? Well letters and then we used to send tapes and one time he was teasing me about I'm talking about the rain and romantic and here he's sitting in a monsoon. Interviewer: Alright and so that basically goes on for sort of your last year? Yeah. Interviewer: And then when he comes back from the service, now what happens? Well we met in Hawaii after eight months or close to nine I think and then he came back in 68. Interviewer: Okay so he had an R&R; to go to Hawaii. Right. Interviewer: And I don't know when he came out for the R&R; was he any different than he was when he left? (16.15) �No, no at least I didn't see it Interviewer: Okay, alright and then when he does come back, then do you leave the Navy or go in reserves or what? Yes. Interviewer: Okay and then once he comes back where do you wind up living? Trying to think, was it Austin? Yes, yeah that's right yeah. Interviewer: Okay and then he stayed in the Air Force? No, he got out for I don't know if it's a year or two and then he went back in. Interviewer: Okay and then did that put you then into the life of the military wife? Before he went back in, I just worked as a nurse at the health center at University of Texas. Interviewer: Okay and then he does go back in and you just follow him around to his assignments and so forth? Right. �Interviewer: Alright when you think over the time that you spent, you know in the service are there particular incidents or people or memories that kind of stand out for you? You mean during all the times we were... Interviewer: Well actually the time you were actually on active duty first. Okay, no it was pretty standard right then you know, just doing our jobs and having fun with friends on the weekends or whenever we're off okay. Interviewer: Now you're at the base, you're at that hospital from 65 to 68 and that is a point where of course Vietnam ramps up a lot. Right. (17.48) Interviewer: Did you- did that affect the kind of business that you had at the hospital? I mean were there casualties who would come back to that facility? Well like I said I was in the OB/GYN most- all the time. �Interviewer: Yeah, I know, were you aware what was going on at all or that these people were coming in? Yeah. Interviewer: okay and did you pay any attention to things like the anti-war movement that was going on or? I really didn't pay too much attention to that. Interviewer: Okay and did you follow the news of the war while your husband was over? Right and I thought we shouldn't be there. Interviewer: Okay and were there ever situations where you got news reports and you were wondering was, he in the middle of that? Not too much really. because a lot of the women that were there having babies and things, you'd hear a lot about any of their husbands that were gone, and I can't recall any of them that had a husband that had died. Because you had people coming in and out and… Interviewer: Right, alright and I guess to look back on the time and the service, but aside from getting you a husband, how do you think that affected you? or or or what did you learn from it? �From being in the military you mean? Interviewer: Yup. Well like I said I had plan to be a career woman because I had seen so much camaraderie when we were at the airbase in Tripoli, North Africa and that's why I thought I would like to do that and have that camaraderie with other women that are staying in. (19.30) Interviewer: Alright and... And that's what originally had gotten me to the point of going in really. Interviewer: Okay and it did it work out that way? Yes, but I ended up not being a career woman, not in the military. Interviewer: Alright did you continue to work as a nurse or did you- after all that, so did you work as a nurse in different places where he was assigned? Yes. �Interviewer: Okay, alright and so then and when did you retire from nursing? Oh in 2000 when I lost my leg, we're still looking for it. Interviewer: Okay, alright but that was not a service-related injury. No, I should have told people it was. Interviewer: Yeah make it much better. Or a shark story. Interviewer: Alright well thank you very much then for taking the time to share the story today. You’re welcome. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SuttonC2308V Title A name given to the resource Sutton, Carol (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-06-07 Description An account of the resource Carol Sutton of Muskegon was born in Davis, West Virginia on February 23, 1940. She went to Frances Payne Bolton School of Nursing in Cleveland, Ohio, as well as West Virginia University after high school. After graduating in 1963, Sutton went on an extended international trip before joining the Air Force. In May of 1965, she underwent Basic Training in Montgomery, Alabama, and graduated as a Second Lieutenant since she was a nurse. She was then stationed at Wilford Hall in Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, where she met her husband in the labor and delivery unit of the hospital. They got married in July of 1966 before her husband was deployed to Vietnam. After his return in 1968, the couple moved to Austin, Texas and they both left the service. Sutton then worked as a nurse at the health center at the University of Texas before retiring in 2000. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sutton, Carol Ann Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a6ea6bd471ddf35d72d9c00a3b2da105.mp4 94357a92102d0cae8364fc8a6832ae7c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2e444e6154ec41a0c9be2e3c95d3763f.pdf 44ebfafb2ac8fb69c441503ad7b8c148 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Jim Southerland Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with Jim Southerland of Nashville, Tennessee. And the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay Jim, start us off with a little bit of background on yourself, and to begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: Okay, I was born in St. Louis, Missouri in 1946 to—my mother was a stay-at-home mother and my father was a technician with Bell Telephone. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And in ’54, ’55, he moved to a transfer in Arkansas. And that’s basically where I grew up. Interviewer: Okay. And what town in Arkansas did you go to school in? Veteran: Stuttgart. Interviewer: Okay, and where is that in the state? Veteran: It’s…The middle of the east part. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Rice end, swamp end, duck and gator country. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: Good training for Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay. And now, did you finish high school? �Veteran: I did. Interviewer: And what year did you graduate? Veteran: ’64. Interviewer: Okay, and what did you do when you got out of high school? Veteran: Well, I had—I was working as a surveyor. Was in a surveyor crew and then I worked for a timber crew there. And then I tried to go to college for a semester and that didn’t work. Then I joined the Army. Interviewer: Okay. So, when did you actually join the Army? Veteran: May 19th, ’65. Interviewer: Okay. At the time you joined, did you have any idea that things were heating up in Vietnam? Or there might be a war to get into? Veteran: That was sort of a glimmer off in the distance. You read about it every now and then and you knew things were getting ready to happen. Interviewer: Okay. And did you, when you did this, did you think hey, that would be interesting to get involved in? Veteran: That’s why I joined. Interviewer: Okay. So, you went looking for the action rather than— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now once you enlist, where do they send you for basic training? Veteran: Went to Fort Polk, Louisiana for basic training then Fort Gordon, Georgia, which is just outside of Augusta for U.S. infantry training. Then 3 weeks at Fort Benning for jump school. And then I went to Germany. �Interviewer: Alright. Now, we will back up here to Fort Polk. When you show up for basic training, what kind of reception do you get? Veteran: Well, it’s nothing like Full Metal Jacket. There’s a specialist with a clipboard under his arm, he says, “Okay men, get off the bus. I am going to call off your name, answer. When I call you, move over here. And then go have a seat.” That’s it. (00:02:19) Interviewer: Okay, so some relatively polite at that point— Veteran: Nothing dramatic. Yeah, oh yeah. Interviewer: Okay. And once they—now, do they have a kind—do they have a processing where they cut your hair, all that kind of stuff? Veteran: Oh yeah. And they issue—there’s a rep—if I recall, it’s called a replacement detachment, where you go spend 2 or 3 days and you are issued uniforms and they start your shots and that sort of thing. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how long was the actual training once you started it? Veteran: There was 8 weeks of basic. Interviewer: Okay, so you’re down to 8 weeks by that time. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Now, what did the basic training consist of? Because not everybody knows that. Veteran: Well, it’s…Okay, close order drill, marching, and that’s more important than we realized at the time. When you got to operate as a unit, in unison. Sanitation, military justice, physical training, riflery, rifle marksmanship, gas training, going through just the rudiments. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And everybody gets to throw 1 grenade. I got to throw 2. �Interviewer: Alright, why did you get 2? Veteran: Because I wanted 2. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, you laughed at sanitation. Were there guys who didn’t know how to bathe? Veteran: Well, it’s—there were some…Yeah. Yeah. And I, actually, when I said sanitation, I was talking perhaps in the bigger plane of field sanitation where you put the latrine over here and kitchen over here. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You wash—yeah, so. But yeah, there were some…A couple who couldn’t read or write. And they sent them off somewhere. And some people had not been raised with the rudiments of personal hygiene and they got special attention until they learned the rudiments of personal hygiene. (00:04:12) Interviewer: Alright. How easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the Army? Veteran: I didn’t have a bit of problem. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I was expecting it to be more rigorous. Interviewer: Okay. Did you have people who had told you they were going to be tough on you or how it would work? Or you just kind of assumed? Veteran: They just—there’s drill instruct—drill sergeants. They don’t have drill instructors in the Army. Drill sergeants have a lesson plan every day and they present it and you do what they tell you and if you do it, they leave you alone. Interviewer: Now, were there guys who had more trouble? Veteran: Oh yeah. People who didn’t want to do it or people with poor coordination or low IQ. �Interviewer: And what would they do with people who weren’t doing it right? Veteran: Well, usually they would leave it up to members of the squad. Say okay when this guy gets it right, you get to go to chow. Interviewer: Okay. So, they are building teamwork. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. Now did you, when you enlist, were you asked to have any—express any kind of preference for what sort of training you were going to get? Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Okay and so what did you ask for? Veteran: I want to be a paratrooper. Interviewer: Okay. And they were happy to oblige you? Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Alright. So, let’s take us on to Fort Gordon then. What goes on there? Veteran: Fort Gordon is infantry training. You learn infantry school—tactics up through the squad and familiarization with weapons that a squad would use: rifles, automatic rifles, machine guns. And they put me in a mortar squad. So, where I trained with mortars every day. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then there’s more close order drill. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: More marching, more PT. Interviewer: What size mortar did they train you on? Veteran: 81. That’s the only—okay, I started to say that. That was the standard infantry company level mortar. 81. It’s changed now, I understand, but we had 81 mortar. �Interviewer: Okay. Because in World War 2 they had 60 millimeter. Veteran: They now have 60s at the company now. Interviewer: And then there are heavier ones but that’s artillery stuff. Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: But light ones or whatever. Veteran: The battalion level mortars they call 107, they used to be called 4.2 inch. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And that’s what I wound up doing in Germany. (00:06:27) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so you’ve got mortar training as well as infantry training. And is that another 8 weeks? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and then you said from there you go on to jump school? Veteran: Go to jump school. Interviewer: Okay, and where was that? Veteran: Fort Benning, Georgia. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: 42nd student company. Interviewer: Okay. And then how does the process work? Veteran: That’s pretty rigorous. You start off with a week of intense PT and then you get a week in the harnesses towers and then you get a week jumping. Interviewer: Okay. Explain the harnesses towers part. �Veteran: Okay, there’s 2 towers. There’s a 34-foot tower and there’s this who was explaining to me the purpose of jumping out of that 20-foot—34-foot tower, is to overcome the natural human reluctance to jump into thin air. And the first time you do it, that reluctance is there. Interviewer: Alright. And now what is protecting you when you jump off? What keeps you from— Veteran: You got a harness. Interviewer: Is that kind of like— Veteran: You slide down a rope. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Is there—is there something that’s elastic that will…Like a giant bungee cord kind of thing or…? Veteran: Yeah, just a rope you slide down. Now, to put that in perspective, we had people—we had troops who couldn’t do it. They refused. They walked down. Now, some years later, I went to a reunion where they let us play with the tower. And we had 10-year old kids that jumped off the tower 22 times in 30 minutes. Interviewer: Now, it’s just great fun. Okay. Alright, so you do the towers. You have the 34foot tower and there’s a taller tower? Veteran: There’s a 250-foot tower that came from the world fair in the—somewhere in New Jersey. And they have a steel ring inside a parachute canopy to keep it extended. They pull you up to the top and they release you and you practice guiding the parachute to the ground. And that’s fun. (00:08:22) Interviewer: Okay. And then you get the real thing? �Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay, so what is the first jump like? Veteran: Okay. If an instructor got up on the platform, he said, “Okay, I need 100 men to jump without a parachute.” He’d have got 200. You’re pretty well indoctrinated by the end. You got it straight on the basics. Safety. Good exit. Good recover. Interviewer: So, do you remember your first jump out of a plane? Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Okay. What was that like? Veteran: I was so busy making sure that I had proper form and could—I was going to do the execute the drop right. Really didn’t pay much attention to the drop, to the fall. I did not enjoy the—did not have a chance to enjoy the scenery. Interviewer: Alright. Well, how high up do they drop you from? Veteran: About 1000-1200 feet. Something like that. Interviewer: Okay, so there’s not a lot of time to think about it then? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. Now, is this something where the ripcord is pulled for you as you jump out of the plane or do you do that yourself? Veteran: Well, there’s really no—the ripcord is a static line that is hooked to your pack tray and I am trying to remember how…It’s 12 feet or 18 feet long. It’s a yellow nylon cord. It’s got a hook on the end of it. You hook it up over a cable. I give you the proper command. Hook up and there’s a pin that goes through to secure it. And a jump master does this and that says okay, secure the pin. And then you—jump master does this, which the command is sound off. And you sound off, make sure you inspect the man in front of you and his safety. And then the jump �master opens the door and he’s standing waiting for the red light to go green. When the green light goes, he pats you on the back and you go out the door. (00:10:18) Interviewer: Right. But then are you connected so that the parachute opens automatically. Veteran: Oh yeah. Yeah, when you go out the door, that static line pulls your pack, or your chute, open. Now, you have a reserve right here on your harness. And right here is a ripcord for that. And supposedly at that altitude, 1000s or 1200 feet, if you have a malfunction, you’ve got time to react with the reserve. Interviewer: Right. Okay, now how many jumps do you make then? Veteran: 5. Interviewer: Okay. And is it always the same way? I mean, is it always the automatic opening of the chute as you go out? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: That’s just the standard way they do it? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Okay, so now you have gotten through that. Were there guys who were getting hurt doing those jumps? I mean, could you break things when you land? Veteran: We had more people get hurt in the physical training. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Plenty of PT, so…I don’t recall any injuries… Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: …In the jump week. Interviewer: Very good. Okay, you have done all of this. And now, do they send you home before you go to Germany or…? �Veteran: Yeah, I went home for a couple weeks. And then I went to Fort Dix, New Jersey. Waited around for about 2 or 3 weeks for a replacement detachment. And then we boarded a ship. Boarded a ship and went to Bremerhaven. Took 8 days. Interviewer: Alright. Now, during your time when you were sitting around in New Jersey, could you go into New York City? Or you just sit around? Veteran: You were supposed to sit there. It was pretty easy to get out the gate though. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah, I went to New York a couple of times. Interviewer: Alright. Okay, now you’re on a boat so describe that trip. Veteran: Oh, that’s the worst experience I have ever had in my life. Just 2 or 3 or, I don’t know, 3 or 4000 G.I.s on this troop ship and they are sleeping in bunks 3 or 4 high. You stand in line for hours to get any chow. The chow is nasty. People throwing up in the chow. People throwing up in the dining hall. Food is terrible. Half the people on KP, half the people on guard duty. I used to hide out in the welding shop. (00:12:31) Interviewer: Alright. How long was the trip? Veteran: 8 days. Interviewer: 8 days, okay. And what time of year was this now? Veteran: November. Interviewer: Okay, so north Atlantic, November…maybe not a great place to be? Veteran: Well, you could stand on the rail. You stand on the rail like this, and maybe—you see maybe 30-40-foot seas. And the ship would lift up and come down. And you could see those waves coming at you. And that’s all you see is waves for 1000s of miles. Feels kind of lonely and exposed out there. �Interviewer: So, just as well you didn’t pick the Navy at that point. Veteran: Yeah. The water temperature was probably 50 degrees, 40 degrees that time of year. And we—supposedly, our trip to this was 300 miles to Iceland. Interviewer: Okay. So, now you get into Bremerhaven. What happens? Veteran: You get out. They get the cattle off, cattle boat. And they pack you on trains. And they send you to the various division replacement training centers. Interviewer: Okay. So where did— Veteran: I was the 8th Division in Karlsruhe, which is, I would say, due west 30 or 40 miles from Frankfurt. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Veteran: That was headquarters, the 8th Division. Interviewer: Okay. And then once you got there, what did they do with you? Veteran: Oh, you stand in line and get—we got new kits—certain equipment and indoctrination and familiarization on Europe and KP and painted and did details. And finally, got out of there after 3 or 4 days and got to the unit. (00:14:12) Interviewer: Okay. And so, what unit now do you join? Veteran: I was in the same thing, 509th airborne in the Robert E. Lee barracks, MainzGonsenheim. Interviewer: Alright. And now that you’re there, what’s your job? Veteran: Oh, they put me in a mortar platoon. And they found out I had an IQ of 70 or 80 or above and understood the basic 4 functions of math, they made me a fire computer. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: The computer, it had an actual computer for air and elevation for the guns. �Interviewer: Alright. Now, when we’re saying computer, are we talking about what we think of as a computer now or you are doing the calculations? Veteran: No, it’s—you, you’re doing it on a piece of graph paper. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And you got a slide rule, it’s not a slide rule. I forget what it’s called. Looks like a slide rule and it’s got the charges on it. And then, you got a range—range tables to give you elevation. And so, they give you—you figure out the target and you knew where the guns are and you plot the arrows with the guns set on their sights and the charges make it go so far. Interviewer: So, you could—charges, so you X amount of powder, explosives, propels it, and you have more if you are going to shoot farther and less for less? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Same with larger artillery? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay so, were these the larger mortars you had? Veteran: These were 107s, yeah. And as a matter of fact, they—the training for the 107s was done on a standard artillery plotting kit and it was conducted by division artillery. Whereas the 81s were conducted at the company level. Interviewer: Okay. So now, what sort of reception do you get within the mortar platoon? How do they treat the new guys when they come in? Veteran: Brutal. It was brutal. “Boy, you’re going to die. You’re little. You won’t last here. You’ll be gone in 6 months.” (00:16:11) Interviewer: So, what actually happens in those first few weeks? �Veteran: Oh, you learn—you learn your spot. But now the unit was out in the field when I first got there and I was on KP every day. Finally, the 1st sergeant comes by. I had been on KP for about 8 days and it’s from sun-up until midnight. I said, “1st Sergeant, how do I get off KP?” He said, “Boy, you want to get off KP?” And I said “Uh-huh.” He said, “When you get off KP, come see me between 2 and 5 in the afternoon.” So, couple days later I go in his office and he said, “I didn’t think you’d show up but come in here.” And he reached down and he got out a stack of field manuals like this. And he said, “Read those, learn how to shine your boots, and get a haircut, and you go up to soldier of the month. You make soldier of the month, you’ll be ED— exempt from duty for 1 month.” So, I shined my boots. I had 2 pairs of jump boots. I shined them both every night. Kept my hair shaved like—almost like this. And read those—read and committed those manuals to memory. And I made soldier of the month. First time a buck private ever made soldier of the month. And I was off—I was exempt from duty for the next month. Interviewer: Okay. How did the guys in your unit feel about that? Veteran: Like chicken shit. Life were—suck ass. I made everybody look bad. And that was right off the bat. So, it was a…It was an interesting experience. I had respect for my superiors and the derision of my cohorts. Interviewer: Alright. Now, does the—how long did you wind up spending with them? Veteran: Oh, almost a year. (00:18:00) Interviewer: Okay. Now, how did your relationship—or, does your relationship with the guys change over the course of that year? Veteran: Yeah, because I got to be their boss in a couple days. Interviewer: So…So, what do you wind up—I mean, how are you spending most of your time then with them? When you’re with that unit, what are you doing day to day? �Veteran: Oh…Endless maintenance. Motor pool every day. Trying to keep that junk hanging together and operating. And there’s daily training on common subjects like nuclear warfare, chemical warfare, drills with chemical warfare and drills with biological drills. The first—you take 2 or 3 first aid classes a week. Interviewer: And would you also get field exercises? Veteran: Oh yeah, you get to go to the field for a month at a time. Interviewer: Okay. And where would you go? Veteran: We would go to, there was—it was training area that belonged to the 8th division called Baumholder. And then there was a 7th Army training area where we’d jump, Grafenberg. That was 7th Army eastern training area and I think we went to a training area called Wildefliecken a couple times. And then right across the river from us, there was a—the 8th division had an airfield, 5th Army airfield. And we would go down there and do a lot of training practice. And that’s also—now, in Germany, you got these ammunition dumps all over the place, left over from World War 2, built since then. And any given time, a 30 company is going to be on guard site. They’re going to be out guarding one of these ammo dumps or quarter master depot. They finally got smart and hired civilians to do that because we stole too much stuff. The quarter master dumped us. (00:20:05) Interviewer: Now— Veteran: At that airfield, there was also the special ammo supply point, which is an Army euphemism for nuclear weapons storage. In any infantry division at that time, you had these small nukes, SASP—we called them Davy Crocket. They had the yield on that weapon is about this big around, like this. I think it’s a tenth of a kiloton. And the ground zero was 5000 meters. And the maximum range is 4000 meters. Do the math on that one. �Interviewer: Well, the 5000 meter is a diameter as opposed to radius so you’re automatically shooting yourself. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah and then let’s see, we had artillery. We had—I think we had 155, 8-inch artillery pieces that had nuclear projectiles. And maybe some—maybe like an honest—I don’t if we had honest, I don’t know if the division had Honest John missiles or not. But anyway, we got—the parachute units got to guard that, the SASP a lot. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did they tell you what your job would be if the Soviets came over the border? Veteran: You know, they never articulated that. They never articulate—and we used to have these alerts. 3 o’clock in the morning, the alert sirens would go off and you’d turn to and get your weapons and get on the vehicle and go to the assembly area. And the assembly area would be some spot you had never gone to before. You get to the assembly area and you do some kind of Mickey Mouse and then about noon you would head back. And from the assembly area, which might be 20 kilometers, to your concern, you could almost walk back on dead vehicles. I knew the Russians were laughing their ass off every time they watched one of these alarms. (00:22:05) Interviewer: Alright. Now, I guess as a parachute unit, you might well be some kind of reaction or reserve force? Veteran: Indeed. Now, we used to have a mini reaction and quick reaction. The mini quick reaction is—they are sitting in a pair and their trailer is outside with weapons and explosives on. And the planes are sitting on the ramp. And there’s trailers with parachutes on. And I think you could be out of there in 15 minutes. The main, it was 24 hours or something like that. And we used to go up to this air force base and some time before I got there, some hooligans—I am not �sure what—I understand they took over the EM club and they had started fights and so. So, when we went on up, they locked us in the hangar. Interviewer: Alright. Now, you were still expected to function actually as a parachute unit? Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: You would drop into places and parachute places. So, you’re not getting helicopters at this point? Veteran: They didn’t really have too many helicopters. 8th division probably had…I would think they would be hard put to lift a company, 200-man company. Interviewer: Okay. Of course, we are now kind of early ’66 for a lot of this and then the helicopter— Veteran: Before air mobile really got—the concept really got going and they had the equipment to do it. Interviewer: Yeah. And the helicopters were mostly in Vietnam. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: They are over there, so you don’t have that kind of thing where you are. Different kind of war expected on someone. Veteran: And we had—we walked a lot. But now on one of the walks, in March or April, I volunteered for it. Nijmegen in Holland…Make a note of this and google it up: Nijmegen March. They had marching units from all over the world. Most of them are civilians that participate in the marches. And the 8th Division made a composite platoon or company. I guess it was a couple—50 or 60 guys who would march from division headquarters to Nijmegen in uniform, full dress uniform. And that took, that was two good days. (00:24:28) Interviewer: Alright. And what was the purpose of that? Or do you not know? �Veteran: Participating in the march. Interviewer: Okay. But why were they having a march? Veteran: You know, I thought it was some kind of war—commemorative of the end of the war or the jump in Nijmegen or the defeat of the Germans or something. I need to look at that better because there were all these civilians there. And you had 100 civilians marching up and down the hill. Norway and Sweden. Yeah it—I am sure the message for it perhaps goes back further than what I imagine. Interviewer: Alright. Now, did you—what did you do when you were off duty? Did you go off base and go anywhere? Veteran: Seldom. Money was the major constraint. You go off maybe once a week and drink a couple beers and come back before you got in trouble. Now payday, payday I didn’t go anywhere on payday but that’s when all the hooligans were out. MPs would be out beating people. They’d be beating MPs and beating the whores and fighting with cab drivers. Yeah, payday was a good day to stay at home. Interviewer: Okay. And when you did go, I mean what impression did you have of the local population there? Veteran: Oh, they were great people. There was one guest house I used to go in and the owner finally confided in me that he was an executive officer on a U boat but he only sank British ships. Interviewer: Good of you. Alright, now are you getting promoted while you’re there? (00:26:04) Veteran: Yep. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: I get my little stripe when I got—I got my little stripe about a month ahead of time because I made soldier of the month. And then…July or Sept—June or July, I made brigade soldier of the month and I got promoted to spec 4, which is about 2 years ahead of time. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And that gave reason—gave a lot of people reason to resent me even more. There’s some people, they are on their second hitch waiting to be promoted to E-4. They hadn’t made it yet. Interviewer: Alright. Now, promotions in Vietnam were pretty quick. Veteran: Oh, it’s just— Interviewer: But that’s a combat zone though, when— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you have a lot of people who were being pulled out of Germany and sent to Vietnam while you were there? Veteran: Not at that time. Interviewer: Okay. So, at that point you’re in your unit in Germany. That’s where you’re going to be, for the most part? Veteran: Basically 3 more years of that. I hated—I just couldn’t stay in. Interviewer: Now, were they making any effort to recruit volunteers for Vietnam? Veteran: No, not in Germany. Interviewer: Okay. So, how do you wind up then eventually going on to Vietnam? Veteran: I yelled and kicked—yelling and screaming and kick and fight and finally they said, “Okay, if you re-enlist, we will send you to Vietnam.” I re-enlisted and they sent me to Vietnam. Interviewer: Alright. So, why didn’t they want you to go? �Veteran: Well, they were seriously short—they were the last ones to get replacements. And there were budgetary constraints on the manpower levels and they didn’t really give up anybody once they got them. Interviewer: And even if some of your guys didn’t like you that much, you knew what you were doing? Veteran: Yeah. I mean, I didn’t worry about them. I was worried about keeping my boss happy. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: I had nothing to gain by keeping those shitheads happy. Interviewer: Alright. Now, I mean did they—did they try to bully you or anything like that? (00:28:03) Veteran: Oh my god, yeah. They’d throw my footlocker down the stairs and fold my bunk up. Good training. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so now when do you actually leave Germany then? Veteran: I left Germany in early September. Early September, I went home for a month. I went to Oakland. Now, at that time they had this stupid policy: I wasn’t good enough to play in the game to take advantage of this, but you had to take all of your field equipment with you. Helmet, web gear, then you didn’t have to take a sleeping bag or tent, but all of your web gear. We had an extra duffel bag and you had authorization to have two duffel bags, helmet, all that stuff. So, I dragged this stuff all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. All the way across the U.S. I get to Oakland and I go to the replacement detachment and I said, “Oh, I got my field gear.” He said, “Throw that shit over in the corner. You’re going to get a new one when you go to Vietnam.” Well, I never did. Stuff I got was hand me down that should have been exchanged a long time �ago. If I had been smart, I’d have left that duffel bag at home and opened that up in 30 years and had a nice trove for a military collector. Interviewer: Alright. So now, how do they physically get you to Vietnam? Veteran: Well, I was assigned to 1st Brigade 1st Cavalry division. And we left Travis Air Force Base on this is the expedited—this expedited trip. Left Travis Air Force Base on these 141s flying backwards and landed twice to refuel. And we landed at Pleiku Air Force Base. And when we got off, there are helicopters and Caribou transports to take us to An Khe, the division headquarters. Interviewer: Right. Okay, so you were going over with the unit at that point? (00:30:06) Veteran: The people—no, all the people that were on those 3 or 4 airplanes were going to replacements in the same place. Interviewer: Okay. You were replacements but you were all replacements heading for the same division? Veteran: Yeah. Right. Interviewer: Okay. And were you all for the same brigade or just the same division? Veteran: All through the division. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now then the transports were military transports? Veteran: C-141s, Starlifters, which not an uncomfortable way to fly. You fly backwards. Matter of fact, I have jumped out of a couple of them. They are not a bad way to go. Interviewer: Okay. But there is some form of actual seat there? Veteran: Yeah, they are actual seats like in an airliner. Interviewer: Okay, because I guess the C-130s, some of them that people flew on didn’t always have that kind of thing. �Veteran: Oh, fold down bench seats on the side. Interviewer: Right. Okay. What’s you first impression of Vietnam? Veteran: It’s hot and humid. And we get on these planes and we fly over the mountains and we land it at the division base camp at An Khe and it’s hot and humid. And we are there about 5 minutes and it starts raining. And it rained for the next 2 or 3 weeks. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: So, we go to replacement center, they process us, I don’t know, a day and a night, and we go to our units. And of course, the units are all out—troops are all out in the field. And so…I don’t know. They did some bully rag to you back in there. You had double time and people called you a cherry. Interviewer: Did they have any kind of in country orientation or anything like that? Veteran: Well, after we got issued—at that time, it was pretty primitive. We were being issued our gear in the company battalion and then we went to this training school for 3 days. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And other than handling an M-16 for the first time and listening to some horror stories from people, I…It was pretty much useless. Interviewer: Okay. They didn’t take you out on a patrol or anything like that? Veteran: We actually went out on a patrol outside the green line. And they gave me the—I was the radio operator. And there was this staff sergeant that was patrol leader. We walked a mile out and a mile back. And there was no real training, just a walk in the woods. (00:32:19) Interviewer: Do you have any sense of what the purpose of all that was? Veteran: Busy work so somebody could check off a box on a form somewhere. �Interviewer: Right. Because I had different descriptions of that depending on when you came through. Although, I mean at some point, it had the title of First Team Academy or something like that. Veteran: That was a lot later on. Interviewer: It was ’67. I think someone went in in ’67 and talked about that. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So, you are a year earlier. Okay. So, you get a little bit of that. But now you’re kind of rejoining, you’re going back to your unit. Veteran: Going back to the unit we get on Caribous. We go to a firebase or a landing some called in English, out in the Bong Son plain. And then from there we helicopter—we go to our company rear areas and they get us a helicopter out to the company. Interviewer: Okay. About how large was the company, in terms of man power, do you think when you joined it? Veteran: TOE of an infantry company was 152 or 154, something like that. And we were, we would be doing good to put 90 boots—90 sets of boots on the ground. Interviewer: Okay. And what sort of reception do you get when you actually join the unit in the field? Veteran: Well, when I got off the helicopter, the first person I saw was somebody I went to college with and he said, “Here, you take this.” I said, “What is this?” And it was a platoon leader’s radio. So, platoon leader calls me over. He says, “Dial me up so and so.” I said, “I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.” So, he takes the radio, he sets the frequency. He makes a phone call. He says, “Here, put that on and follow me.” (00:34:02) Interviewer: Alright. Now did you wind up staying an RTO? Is that your job? �Veteran: Yeah, that was my job. Now, a couple months later I got promoted to sergeant and they made me a squad leader. And that was a much easier job than carrying that radio. Much less visible, much less visible target. Interviewer: Alright. Let’s talk a little about that time when you are an RTO then. What did you make of your lieutenant? Veteran: His name was—he was a good guy. He was a country boy from West Virginia. Went to Berea College in Kentucky. And he had—he was a solid guy, had both feet on the ground. Little rough around the edges. If you needed a smacking around, he might take care of that. He certainly left the impression he would. But he was very concerned about the welfare of his troops. Were they getting clean clothes and so on. But certainly, the platoon sergeant was a known brawler. He was a typical airborne soldier. Been at it 20 something years. Been in 2 wars, been in the Army, out of the Army, been busted a couple times. Drank too much. But he was good. He was good. And he gave you the right incentive to follow him, do what he told you to. He would keep you in line. He might kick your ass if you didn’t. Interviewer: Right. Now, were you basically just kind of conducting patrols outside of English and that kind of thing? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. And what’s the terrain like there? Veteran: Well, where we were it was pretty mountainous. Yeah, real mountainous. Interviewer: Alright. And was there much going on at that point? Was there much enemy activity? Veteran: We didn’t—we really didn’t get any, into anything too much until a couple of platoons would get into a little fire fight. That died down. Let me see, November we got in the big fight. �Had some casual—first time I had seen a lot of casualties. And then the end of December, when we were having a Christmas truce. One of our sister companies gets ambushed. They got all— most of them got annihilated. We had a lot of casualties there. And we lost a platoon leader there. And the platoon sergeant took over as platoon leader and the platoon sergeant got shot the next day and I became the platoon sergeant, for a day or two. (00:36:32) Interviewer: Alright. Now, let’s see, I guess for the record here, I am not sure we had mentioned this. What specific company, platoon, and so forth are you with? Veteran: I was in the mortar platoon. Oh wait. It’s the 4th platoon, which is a designated weapons platoon. And the weapons platoon is supposed to have mortars and recoilless rifles. And we had only mortars and we only had them in the base camp. And we only brought them out in the field as needed. And the platoon sergeant was an old mortarman. The old guys were all good mortarmen. The replacements we got in didn’t have any experience. And it was less and less often that we would bring mortars out in the field and actually set up and use them. Interviewer: Okay. So, but now is it then your mortar platoon leader that gets killed? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And is— Veteran: But I mean, for all intents and purposes, it’s the 4th rifle platoon. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: From day to day operations. Interviewer: So, you would go out in the field with the other line units then? Veteran: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Okay. And so, you just function—and so, they use the manpower as extra riflemen? �Veteran: Yeah. The company—yeah. The company commander would say—he would designate the lead platoon for the night and day. He would rotate them among all platoons. And we had a guy named—I forget his name, but he was a good point man. And we spent more than our fair share of time being point. But that’s okay because the point man was very good and the platoon leader and platoon sergeant were very good. (00:38:09) Interviewer: Alright. And then as the platoon leader’s RTO, what are you doing? Veteran: Well…I am trying to keep up with him. He’s 6’4’’ and got legs that come up to here on me. And I am burdened with about twice as much gear as he is. I am carrying all of my gear, all ammo and frags I can carry, and for some stupid reason I had a 45 I later got rid of, and I have got the radio, I’ve got—there’s a long antenna and a case you carry. You got to carry 3 or 4 batteries. Got to carry a lot of smoke grenades. It was a pretty good burden. So, mostly I tried to keep up with him. When the company commander would call him, I would try to get up to him so he could take the call. Interviewer: Okay. And did you sort of learn to operate the radio pretty quickly? Veteran: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean and—part of my job in the FDO in the mortar platoon in Germany, you’re on constantly, you’ve got a radio handset in your hand constantly. So yeah, that was no big deal. Just—I didn’t have the signal operation instructions which was a little booklet that you carry. It’s supposed to be a classified document. It’s got call signs and frequencies of all the sister companies, the battalion, brigade and so on. Interviewer: So, you were just supposed to know those things? Veteran: No, you’re supposed to keep it close. Yeah, you learn the call signs of the 4 companies. Each company has got its own call sign. We were pistol belt. There was pig iron and canteen cup and those change every couple months. And the battalion commander, his call sign was shiny �boots. The battalion call sign was shiny boots. Now, you have a hierarchy. The number 6 designates the commander, at whatever level. 6 could be platoon leader, could be company commander, could be division commander. 3 is operations, 2 is intelligence, 5 is communication, 4 is supply, 5 is civil affairs. Why would I still know that? (00:40:30) Interviewer: Well, good training at some level. Okay. So, you’re only really doing that kind of thing then for just a couple of months? Veteran: Yeah. And at night, you dig in. The medic—you and—okay, you got an RTO for the platoon sergeant, one for the platoon leader, and you got one for—and the medic. The 3 of you are camped together at night and take turns monitoring radios. And that usually didn’t work too well. Somebody would always fall asleep. Never had any repercussion for it. Interviewer: Alright. And now when you were out at night, I mean would you have anybody trying to probe your position? Or would they leave you alone? Veteran: Where we were at that particular time, it was rare. Much of the time it was just random shots just to keep us—they thought they’d keep us jittery or something. But you’d get jittery if they didn’t shoot at you. Interviewer: Now, when you were out in the field, do you go on the trails or off them? Or…? Veteran: We didn’t—we didn’t go on trails. We made our own. Interviewer: How dense was the under growth in these places? Veteran: It—you had to cut your way through sometimes with machetes. And I never figured…Okay, as much noise as a company makes in the bush, you got equipment rattling, you got people talking and yelling at each other and you got radios…You’re not going to—you will �not arrive unannounced. And then when you start chopping through jungle foliage and bamboo? They can hear you coming 2 miles away. (00:42:00) Interviewer: So, did you only have contact when they felt like making contact? Veteran: You know, that’s always—when there was a significant battle, it was an ambush that they set up. At a time and a place of their choosing. Now, there were random encounters like there would be a messenger coming down a trail and we would pick him off. We tried to stay off trails, though. And then at night, we would—okay, every night you set up a perimeter. And you say well, we got this hill up here and a little stream coming down here. Let’s put 3 guys up there on a listening post. And there’s a trail crossing a stream down here. Let’s put 4 or 5 guys down there and set up an ambush. And that’s where the fun usually started, with the ambush. And I think we had a psychological advantage. When they ran into one of our ambushes, they would break contact and run as hard as they could because they had no idea what they were running into. Interviewer: And when they made contact with you, would they break off once too much return fire came? Veteran: Yeah. Their job was to inflict casualties and run away. Fight another day. Interviewer: Okay. Now, do you know if you were up against Viet Cong or NVA? Veteran: Well, now. We could identify them pretty easy. There was a main force VC unit that would be like a national guard on active duty. And then there were NVA units. And you could tell by the uniforms and equipment they had. NVA were much better armed. They had uniforms. Interviewer: Okay. Did the VC have kind of Soviet type weapons? Or were they using stuff they took from us? Or...? �Veteran: They had—it was interesting. They would pick up weapons and use them as needed but someday the supply chain would bring weapons down and they would turn all the captured stuff in or all the old stuff in and they’d get better weapons down. If we found out—we got in their cache one time. We found where they had turned in all of the captured weapons they had and all the junk that the Chinese had given them. There was British, Chinese, German, everything, stacked up there. The local VC had turned back in and received bolt action Soviet rifles. And that’s what we were encountering. (00:44:38) Interviewer: Okay. The bolt action? So, like World War 2 style as opposed to the AT-47 model or something like that? Veteran: Yeah. They liked carbine—the local VC liked carbines and they were readily available from the south Vietnamese. Interviewer: Yeah, your other source of supply. Did you have many civilians in that area? Veteran: Yeah. They would be right on the edge of—okay, rice paddies would go up here and the mountains would go up here. In this little cusp between, the woodcutters would come up here and then in the rice paddy areas, there would be lots of villages. We hated—we wanted to stay as far away from the villages as possible. This one particular place where we would locate, there was a Bong Son river ran down like this. And this was a mountain chain and these were some low hills. These were the piedmont area and here was the beach. And this valley right here, we called it Bong Son plain. And it was loaded with villagers. And we thought we could pass by the area and let those villagers pursue their crafts and survive and thrive. That wasn’t the case. We ran—we kept—a lot of action over here in this piedmont. And in these big mountains over here. That’s where the Annamite chain started. And it went a 100-miles that way. That was Indian �country. And we had firebases. English is here, Geronimo is here. That’s 15 miles. And we had other firebases around. (00:46:23) Interviewer: Alright. And did you have a standard operating procedure for going through a village? Or did you just stay out of them? Veteran: Yeah, you—okay you pay particularly close attention to walking where the villagers were walking. Pay attention to what’s up over your head. When you go in a hooch, try to look up and look to the side. Because the Viet Cong were ruthless. They would—they would come in and booby trap a…innocent villagers’ hooch—house, grass hut in the middle of the night, knowing that we are going to trip it. We are going to get somebody hurt and retaliate against the village. Interviewer: And did your people trip booby traps and that kind of thing? Veteran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A booby trap, that’s an interesting word, and it took on a life of its own. A booby trap is a—is something, is an explosive destructive device disguised as something else. A book or a door or a lid on a coffee can or something. What we call booby traps were simply improvised mines. Interviewer: Alright. Now, you were—you have your initial phase where you’re the RTO and you’re in the field a lot. Okay, and then—now does your job shift kind of right after you lose the lieutenant or do you…? Veteran: No, we lost a couple squad leaders and it was—they said, “Okay, we will make him a squad leader. He knows how to read a map.” Interviewer: Alright. Now do you stay in the same area at that point? (00:48:02) Veteran: Yeah, same area. Interviewer: Okay. So, how long were you in the Bong Son area? �Veteran: We were there the whole time. We were there for…Let’s see, we were there from early ’66 through Christmas ’67. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and then during that time, was it pretty much just a regular routine of doing the same thing over and over again? Veteran: Yeah but we get—we got February of ’67, we got sucked into this big ambush. And I mean, they just wiped our company out. I was gone at the time. I wasn’t out there. And then a couple weeks later, I was out there and one of our platoons was set up in a blocking position. And they got ahold of one by sapper company and they got—they got all messed up. They were—became ineffective. They had 20 or 30 casualties. And then, daily, weekly, monthly, little services, sniper rounds. But that was relatively peaceful. And then after—okay, I left the field in about August or maybe early September. And they moved me into the operations—operations section. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I was a duty operations officer on the midnight shift. At one of these firebases here. Interviewer: And so, what does that job consist of? Veteran: Well, it was a—you got 2 radio operators monitoring company nets and the brigade net. And you got a battalion. And if a company makes contact, it’s my job to get resupply and med evac going. Write up the after-accident reports. Brief the commanders on them. We had some really good operations officers and some really good commanders. I can’t—there’s one I didn’t like but I can’t say we had a bad operations officer or commander. But we had one guy who was the brightest of the bright. He was a legacy. Father and grandfather were both general officers. He was a West Pointer. And he became 4-star on his own. He was brilliant. But he would insist �that I wake him up. Anything happened, he wanted to be wakened up. So, I go in at 4:30, 5 o’clock whenever I was supposed to wake him for the day and I would say—he’d say, “What happened?” And I would say, “Okay, well about 2 o’clock, Charlie company had a mortar round laying in the perimeter. Nobody got hurt. And about 3:30, somebody tried to probe around at Delta company. They beat them off and they fired some elimination rounds and they think they got a body outside.” He said, “You’re supposed to wake me up.” I said, “I’ll make a deal with you.” He said, “You don’t make deals with me.” I said, “Listen, we need you bright eyed, bushy tailed, alert as possible during the day to run the operations of this battalion.” I said, “I will make a deal with you: if anybody gets—if we have a KIA, I’ll wake you up.” He yelled at me, “I don’t have to make deals with you!” But anyway, that became the procedure. I would wake him up and brief him on what happened during the night. (00:51:42) Interviewer: Alright. Now, you have been in Vietnam a while by this time. Do you get an R and R in there somewhere? Veteran: Yeah. Okay, I had taken 2 R and Rs during my year in the field. I went to—I had an aunt and an uncle that lived in Taiwan. CC Kang Air Base in Taichung. I went and spent a week with them and I went to Australia for a week. And then, when my first year was up, I went back home for a month. Came back. Okay. I think I deferred that for a couple months. I came back and the unit had disappeared. They had left Bong Son and moved to I Corps. And I joined— rejoined them in I Corps. And then I had 6 months down on down the road, I took another— extended my tour again, took another 30-day leave. Went to Australia that time. (00:52:42) Interviewer: Okay. What’s it like to get out of Vietnam after you have been in it for a while? You get into this world where there’s not a war going on. �Veteran: Oh you, first thing you do is you marvel at running water. All the hot running water you want and a bar of soap this big. And you lay there for hours. Nobody is yelling at you to hurry up and get out. You put on clean clothes and you know you’re going to put on clean clothes the next day. And you go to a restaurant and you eat real food. Yeah, it’s great. Interviewer: Okay. When was the leave home? Back to the states? Veteran: That was that year in late ’67. I was there at Christmas time. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And when I went back, the division had moved to I Corps and was taking over from the Marines. And— Interviewer: Just before we get there and I want to get there because that is an important phase, when you go back, are you become aware of some of the anti-war stuff going on or that kind of thing? Veteran: No. You read about it. You read about it in Vietnam but there were—never personally encountered it. Interviewer: Okay. So, when you came back and when you traveled around, would you travel in uniform back in the states? Veteran: No, not once I got out of the airport. And you know, where I—when I got off the airport, got out of the airplane at Arkansas, there weren’t going to be any protesters back there. Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. No, it would be more like in transit, like when you first come into the west coast and— (00:54:11) Veteran: Oh, I was in Oakland one time and they were throwing stuff at us and I had a lay-over at Stapleton in Denver and they were throwing stuff. Yeah, it got bad. As time went by, it got worse. �Interviewer: Okay. So, you did see some of that but a lot depended on where you were? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. But anyway, so let’s go back. So, you go—so you basically get back to Vietnam, January now of ’67. Okay. And now the division as a whole has moved up to the far northern part of north Vietnam. So where are you going to be—where are you based when you join them? Veteran: Quang Tri province, which is…15 miles south of the DMZ, 40 miles, 50 miles from the Laotian border. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And it’s where—the Marines could not control it, where we—it took us a week to pass by here. Interviewer: Now where were—did you start out on the coastal area or were you— Veteran: No, we started out in the—pretty much the center of the country. But now later on— Interviewer: No, no, I mean when you went up north, did you—were you policing the coastal area first and going inland? Or…? Veteran: No and actually we went inland. And later on, we went down to highway 1 and we did in a month what the Marines couldn’t do in 5 years. ‘Course it didn’t really matter because the day you leave, they’re going to come back that night. Interviewer: Do you have a sense of what you were able to do or why you could do things differently than the Marines? Veteran: Okay, I’ll give you an example. I pointed this out to somebody the other day. Artillery forward observer, the Marines, was a lieutenant assigned to an artillery battery. Artillery battery had 4 Marine companies it supported. They had 4 lieutenants and a radio operator. Now, the FO �could only fire his battery. He didn’t even know the radio frequencies for other batteries. The only battery he could fire was his battery. Now, contrast that with—when we went on Operation Pegasus, we had finished a training. Okay, a helicopter you got a pilot, copilot. You got crew chief and gunner. Okay. Crew chief stays pretty busy. The copilot was trained to be an FO, the gunner was trained to be an FO. So, when we are peak op—at peak operation, we’ve got 800 FOs in the air. Not 24 on the ground. 800 FOs that can shoot any battery from any country from any army from any armed service, Air Force and Navy. And for the Marines to get the Air Force or Navy involved, they had these anglo teams, 2 Marine officers and 2 Navy officers. And they have to be requested to bring in any assets. We are refining World War 1. (00:57:16) Interviewer: Alright. So…Now, you’re not up there very long before the Tet Offensive starts? Veteran: Oh, no. We were—they…Night at the Tet Offensive went down. There’s this ARVN compound that’s getting overrun and the battalion commander grabs me and says, “Go get 6 cooks and clerks and get on that bird. You’re going to go relieve them and you’re going to go and meet the first platoon of Delta company out there.” These people don’t even know if they’ve got weapons that will work. Somehow, one of them didn’t even know where his weapon was. Here, take this one. Get on the board—get on the bird. The first bird in was from a platoon from Delta company. And the thing went down on the mechanical about 300 yards short of the perimeter of this ARVN unit. Crashed and landed on top of the headquarters of the NVA regiment it was assaulting. Killed the regimental commander, the political officer. (00:58:26) Interviewer: Now, were you on this helicopter? �Veteran: No, I was over here. So, we come in—we land inside the perimeter and I got this one— one of the people in my spot is a cook, this obnoxious, fat, smelly cook. He was sus—he was thought to be the cause of the spread of gamma—what do they give you? Gamma globulin…? Interviewer: Gamma globulin. (00:58:53) Veteran: Is that hepatitis? Interviewer: Something. I forget. But anyway— Veteran: He was thought—he was the genesis of this malady that we were all suffering from. And he charges through the wire. Goes out to the bird, pulls the copilot out of the bird. Drags him to safety. Pulls the pilot out of the bird, drags him to safety. And he comes up and he says, “I got to sit down, I don’t feel too good.” I said, “What’s wrong with you?” Being kind of contemptuous, I’d like to shoot this guy myself. He had a bullet hit him. He had a broken ankle. Most contemptible piece of shit in the battalion. And he’s the hero now. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Now, what happened to the North Vietnamese? Did they just leave at that point? Or…? Veteran: They evaded it. Yeah, we got enough people on the ground to get enough air support and the artillery in. air support was hard to come by that night but we got enough artillery in. they decided to break off. Interviewer: Okay. Now, before that started, was there any inkling where you were that there was something going on? (01:00:04) Veteran: Nothing. �Interviewer: Okay. So, there was a surprise. Alright. Now had—did they—were you on a firebase when that started? Veteran: Yeah, I was on LZ Sharon. Interviewer: Okay. And did that get attacked? Or was that quiet? Veteran: We didn’t get attacked there. Now, we had another firebase whose name I cannot remember…a mile north where the brigade headquarters was and there were only a small group of people who were securing that. We had a battalion here, battalion here, battalion here and then they were all turned, securing the firebase. There was some…I don’t know. They attacked with mortars and then rocket propelled grenades. And they did more damage to the air but it was insignificant compared to what had happened elsewhere. Interviewer: Alright. Now, we have gotten in your story to the point where we have made it now to the beginning of the Tet Offensive in early 1968. The first fight or whatever has happened. Your base wasn’t attacked directly but your unit was involved in rescuing some ARVN troops nearby. What happens now? Veteran: Okay, we hunker down and we started getting ready for—there’s whispers of something big happening. And our companies are getting in bigger and more frequent contacts. We are having lots of casualties. And February, we found out that we were going to Khe Sanh to relieve the Marines. And I spent about a month…We didn’t have an air operations officer, so I was doing my duty shitting operations in at night plus being the planning the battalions air movements. I don’t think I slept for about a month. And we were—they separated us from our regular brigade and they attached us to the 3rd brigade. And there was a lot of friction there. We didn’t get along too well with these people and they—we didn’t have a lot of confidence in them and our battalion commander grated on them and they grated on us. Anyway, we were second �day on Pegasus. We relocated for a couple days to this border operating base called Stud, about 215 miles—whatever—away from Khe Sanh. (01:02:43) Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And…Let me refresh my memory. We landed on a mountain top 2 miles from Khe Sanh, 2 miles southwest of Khe Sanh. And we set up a battalion support base and we were running patrols out of there. And we were getting significant contact every day. But, first day was hectic, second day was serious, third day…nobody to fight. Interviewer: Well, when you have contact, when you find the enemy, then do you have— can you bring a lot of fire power on them? Or what happens— Veteran: Well, now, the Army doctrine is you return fire, you recover your people, you pull back. Pull back a safe distance so you can get artillery in. And when you can scramble the fast movers, the jets, you keep shooting artillery until they are on station. And then you lift your fires and the Air Force and Navy comes in. Navy in this case. And then you start moving forward and their gunships are out there, working the area over. And the gunships are real close contact. They are working 100 feet away. 200 feet away. And you go up and secure the area. You pick up the bodies and the weapons and you declare a victory and you march on. Whereas Marines would stand up and charge. I would be willing to say that if the Marines had followed our doctrine, they would have killed 10,000 more enemy and had a fourth of casualties. Just obscene, the way they wasted their troops. (01:04:37) Interviewer: Did they have the same kinds of assets that the Cav had in terms of helicopters and fire power? Veteran: They really didn’t. And they didn’t have the doctrine to coordinate the fires. They would often go—the first reaction would be if…would be get their jets in. And jets are not really �a good first response. First response is observed artillery. And then gunships, where pilots can see what they are doing. Those fast movers come in, they—they really have a hard time hitting those exact targets you need hit. They’re good air suppression. And they are great when enemy is moving away from them. They are great at keeping them from going far. But… Interviewer: Alright. So now, you were talking about being air operations officer. Now was this for the battalion specifically? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Planning the air movement for Khe Sanh. Interviewer: Okay. And when you moved, did you move the entire battalion at the same time? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay, and how many helicopters does it take to move a battalion? Veteran: Well, I am going to say…80 to 90. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: In an assault like that, you’re going to go in with the little birds, Hueys. Now, normal course of events, you have 4, 3, 2. I am sorry. The order of trail would be 2, 4, 3. That’s 2 gunships, 4 Chinooks with the first platoon—first platoon end, and then hovering up here, you’ve got 3 Chinooks with 3 more platoons. And after the gunships clear the area, shoot the area up, the first platoon goes on the ground. First platoon on the ground goes on the ground. They secure a landing zone. And then the big birds come in. (01:06:37) Interviewer: Okay. Now, so you’re on the ground for a couple of days. The bad guys go away. Do you go into Khe Sanh? �Veteran: Actually, we never—we never went into Khe Sanh. We just kept moving. Kept securing our area of responsibility. Another battalion actually went into Khe Sanh, relieving the Marines. The Marines left. And we never had more than 2 or 3 companies at the—at Khe Sanh from then on. The Marines had 3 battalions—3 reinforced battalions. Interviewer: Well, that was when it was fully under siege. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And so, it’s a little different. Veteran: And their solution was to keep digging deeper. Hunker down more. Interviewer: Okay. Now were you kind of continuing to kind of sweep south through that area? Veteran: South and west. Interviewer: So, towards the Laos ocean border and well, you know. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. And how long does that campaign continue? Veteran: I believe we were back within 10 days. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and then after those first couple of days, did the enemy just get out of the way? Or do you start finding them again? Veteran: We…We couldn’t find them. First day we were there, I looked over the edge of the hill on the opposite side from Khe Sanh and saw a company sized patrol moving down the—moving down the little valley there. We never saw anymore troops after that. (01:08:05) Interviewer: Alright. Now at this point then—so do you go—what base do you go back to? �Veteran: We went back to Sharon and then we continued to operate just day to day infantry sweeps out of Sharon for a month or two. And then we moved down to LZ Eagle, which was…That’s not what it was called. Interviewer: It was Camp Eagle, which is—was a big base. Veteran: It was our division base camp. Interviewer: Right, right. Veteran: I am not sure. I don’t know if that was the name of it at that point, but wasn’t, when we first moved in there, Camp Eagle. Interviewer: Yeah, they called it Eagle. Yeah. Veteran: I can’t remember. Camp Evans, maybe? Interviewer: Well, Evans was another camp. That was a second one that was, I think, north of there. Veteran: Okay. Okay, we launched from there and went to A Shau. And that was—that was an experience. By that time, we had an air operations officer and an assistant air operations officer and a senior NCO do the air operations. And I had been doing the work of the 3 of them before they got there. Interviewer: Alright. So, what do you go to at this point? Veteran: I go back to my normal duty. Duty operations on the midnight shift in the operations center. And then during the day, I am out scrounging stuff and…Every unit I have ever been in, for some reason they assumed I was a natural born thief, and they sent me out to find things. I’d usually come back with… Interviewer: Okay. Well, what kinds of things did you have to go find? Veteran: Okay, tool sets, tool kits, air to ground panels, decontamination kits, radio antennas. �Interviewer: All kinds of stuff. Alright. And how do you come by these things? Veteran: Well, okay, in Germany, our motor pool backed up to this 7th Army or U.S. Army Europe armament pool. And when they would bring new vehicles to Europe, they would park them back there and they would be issued out to units as needed. Well, one day I said—told them, I said, “When they put those vehicles out there, what is inside them?” They said, “Well, everything they’re supposed to have: pair of scopes, decontamination kits, tool boxes, tool kits.” I said, “Oh.” So, while nobody was looking, I borrowed a set of bolt cutters from the supply room, went through the fence, clipped the padlocks on a couple of them, got the stuff we were short on, brought it back. And then the—I’d take care of the other squadron in my platoon. I’d fix them up. And then I gave some stuff to my platoon sergeant and said, “See if you can trade this for something we need.” And pretty soon I was getting a list: could you find… (01:11:08) Interviewer: So, in Vietnam, was it the same kind of stuff that you would need? Veteran: Oh yeah. And in Vietnam, if you left anything unattended, it would be stolen. Now at LZ Sharon, we received a bunch of C rations and the battalion commander somehow got involved and he said, “I am not feeding that crap to my troops. That’s dated 1954. Get rid of it.” They got some new C rations in. They said, “Well, how are we going to get rid of these?” You know, you can’t take forever to burn the things. So, they loaded them on a truck, kicked them off outside the main gate, and put a big sign up that says “1/8 only, do not take.” And the Marines took every one of them. Interviewer: And they had had stuff from 1937, so you know. Okay. Alright, now did you go further afield? I mean, did you, you know, look for beer or other stuff like that? (01:12:08) �Veteran: Oh, I—we never had a digression on that. I got—I fell of this rock. Went up in the bush and fell of this rock. Cracked my kneecap. Terribly painful. And I also did some—my toenail swelled up big. They sent me back to the rear for a couple days of light duty and the first sergeant had me clean—they had this container full of weapons that we picked up on the battlefield. So, I—first thing I do is make sure they are unloaded. And then I get some gasoline and scrub them clean. That’s the only thing I get. Spray the oil on them. Get them fixed up. And we get those on a bird and we take them to Cam Ranh Bay, big Air Force base couple hundred miles south. And we make a contact. We make a contact with this person we were supposed to see and he says, “Okay, first sergeant. What do you need?” First sergeant gets out his green Army issued notebook and he says, “Well, sir…” and he said, “Well first of all, tell me what you got?” “Well, we got 2 Thompson submachine guns, we got 3 carbines, we got an SKS, we got a French MAT-49 submachine gun, a German Schmeisser…” on and on and on. He says, “Okay, what do you need?” “Well, sir, we only started a minute ago. We need coats, we need 2 or 3 pallets of coats and a couple pallets of beer, and we need a bunch of tarpaulins and a 5-KW generator and supply, a couple pallets of…” on and on and on. “And we need a load boy to get this stuff down to the airfield and we need a 130 to get back to An Khê.” He said, “Come back in the morning.” So, we go in—we go to the NCO club, get all messed up. Get drunk. Wake up the next morning, show back up at the—our contacts’, about 10 o’clock. And he said, “Okay, everything is down at the flight line waiting for you.” So, we go down to the flight line and there’s not one, there is two C-130s with our loot on it. And we fly back to An Khê. And it took longer to get it from the airstrip from the company area than it did to get down and back. Okay, anyway. (01:14:18) Interviewer: Alright. �Veteran: Now, a particularly telling experience for me was when we came back from Khe Sanh, the Marines were brought back from Khe Sanh. And we were on this LZ Sharon and there was a top of a hill surrounded by all these units. I don’t know—20 or 30 feet higher than the rest of us. And they dunked 2 or 300 Marines on that hill. Just like they came off Khe Sanh: clothes they had been wearing for 3 months, ragged boots, filthy looking people. And the Marines were bringing them C rations and water. And our battalion commander, who was—he was a gruff, oftentimes theatrically gruff, sometimes sadistic, NC—kind of guy. He’d go up and he said, “Why you fucking jarheads living like god damned animals out here? Well, I tell you what: if you fucking assholes can find your way down to the mess hall tomorrow, we’ll feed you breakfast.” So, we started feeding—we started feeding them. We only cooked 2 day—we only fed breakfast and dinner. And we started feeding them breakfast and dinner, a couple 100 eggs that was more than we were normally fed. And then brigade commander got in on it and had the engineers build a shower point and we were—they were going in there, cleaning up, and we were issuing them Army uniforms. And in a week or so, the laps—no Marine brass ever came by to check on their troops. They would have been perfectly content to leave them out there looking— looking and living—like animals. (01:16:03) Interviewer: So, they eventually move out? Or do you move out? Veteran: Nope. They started doing PT in the morning, running around inside the wire. And then they loaded up a mule, 4 by 8 motorized platform, they stacked sandbags as high as they could and cans of water as high as they could, and they went marching off the firebase. And we never saw them again. So anyway, back to A Shau. Once again, we were second—second day at A Shau and we had every rotary asset that was in theater at that time. Everything the Air Force had, everything the Navy had, everything the Marines had, everything we had. And there was 5 or �600 helicopters and all that. And it was 50 or 60 miles of straight line down there, which is a pretty good haul for a helicopter. But we are sitting there the first day and we are watching these Chinooks bringing all these crashed Hueys back in. Dozens of them. This doesn’t look good. So, there was 3 areas where we occupied and 1 was—1 was an old airfield, one—and I think the other 2 were special forces camp. And our brigade objective was A Loi—A. L. O. I.—special forces camp. The NVA had run special forces out of there a decade earlier. And we landed right smack dab in the middle of one of there supply ports. We found 100s of trucks, 1000s of rifles, 1000s—enough tooth—enough writing stationary for a division for 10 years. Toothpaste. Incredible. And we were busy inventorying that stuff and destroying it. And they are reacting quite violently. They’re throwing everything they got. We are being shot at with artillery and mortars and rockets. And getting a lot of casualties on the ground. Well anyway, they decide that we are going to get—we are wearing our helicopters out, so they are going to land C-130s. So, they bring these Seabees out with a bulldozer and big stacks of perforated steel plating. And they build a runway. And this is brigade LZ, it’s the—I guess about 5-6000-foot LZ runway. So, the first day, they got a serial of C-130s cued up on the short final land. And the first one, the antiaircraft up on top of the hill opened up, chopped the first one up. He exploded in midair. Had artillery rounds in there. And the other two broke off. One of them was streaming smoke and the other one got away clean. So, they said, “Well, maybe that’s not—maybe landing those things and unloading them is not such a good idea. We’ll do low-lex: low level extraction.” Everything is on rollers. And you come down—you touch down, almost touch down and you’re still going 150-175 knots. Way too fast to land. And you throw out a drag shoot and it pulls all the pallets off the rollers and they hit the ground and bounce 3 or 4 feet. Well, they got 3 of them cued up on short vinyl. And the opening volley, they blow up 2 of them. And the 3rd one turns over and �he falls upside down and crashes. So, score is them 3, us—them 5, us nothing. So, they said, “Well, you know really…hammie drop might be in order here. We can drop these supplies by parachute. And we could be low enough to make sure they are landing inside your perimeter. And we could probably do a pretty good job of supplying you like that.” Well, I don’t know if you remember your history but Göring promised Hitler that he could resupply the 6th army at Stalingrad. Didn’t work then, didn’t work now. So, there’s a serial of 5 aircraft lined up, coming in at 5000 feet. They shot down 2 of them. 1 of them goes flying off, streaming. Other 2 break off and leave. Dropped the—dropped the ammo in the ocean because they didn’t want to land with all the several tons of artillery shells. So, they said, “Well, we’ll try—we’ll go a little higher next time.” So, the next day, the…pathfinder. Pathfinder’s got a microphone. He said, “Okay, heads up! Heavy drop! In bound. Heads up!” So, we look up. Can’t hear any airplanes. Can’t see any airplanes. And there’s—all the time, we are still taking in direct fire in the perimeter there. And all of a sudden, there’s a black dot. And then there is 6 black dots. And these parachutes start landing everywhere. So, we got to go out and secure this stuff or we’re giving—or else we are resupplying the NVA. And that was costly. That cost us a lot of casualties, a lot of time. And then the—finally, they said, “Well, the powers that be,” the brass said, “we’ve been gone about 10 days now and we haven’t fed the chickens and the cows need milking. We’d better go on back.” And that was the end of our adventures in the A Shau Valley. And the 101st should have learned that lesson. (01:21:49) Interviewer: Alright. So now, where have we gotten to, in terms of timeframe? Veteran: Okay, we are looking now at April-early in May,’68. Interviewer: Okay. �Veteran: Okay, I stayed there for another month or two, duty—duty NCO in the operations center on the midnight shift. Continued to go out during the day and forage for things we needed. And then I went back to—I extended my tour again and I went back to division base camp where I was operations sergeant in the replacement detachment. And I did that job until…Let’s see…probably November. (01:22:38) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then November, boy they threw me in a briar patch. Interviewer: Well, before we get you to the briar patch, what is life like at a large base at that point? Veteran: Well, you shower and comb—you shower everyday if you feel like it, with cold water. There are three meals a day in the mess hall. Never had any—no enemy action at the time I was back at the base camp. Normal politics was life in the garrison. Interviewer: Now, do you have, for this period where—on the base, do you notice anything like racial tensions or— Veteran: Yep. Okay, racial tensions were…You didn’t have those in combat units. And let’s say in our division, we did not have problems. But you get—further back in, you get in the supply and service units and there were…It was awful. We would have the occasional resistor. My job—Okay, at the replacement detachment, we get—you send a bus down to the airport and they bring us 40 people, 50 people, maybe 100 people. we would bring them to our detachment. Excuse me. Process them in, get all their medical records, personnel records, stuff like that straight and get them assigned to a unit. Third or fourth day, we take them back to the airport and send them to their unit. Drugs were starting to become a problem then. There was more drug activity. But if you went to the big logistics bases, racial issues were commonplace. And I would �characterize the same issues we had in Germany. There were no racial problems, there were black thugs causing problems. (01:24:41) Interviewer: Alright. Now, when…Did things like the assassination of Martin Luther King have any repercussions where you were? Veteran: No. Interviewer: Okay. Because you were still in the field at that point when that stuff was going on too. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. And…I mean, did the tensions get to the level—I mean, were there— did people just get—were there fights? Or…? Veteran: You would have occasional fights in the EM club and the problem was if a white guy and a black guy got in a fight, 3 more blacks would jump in. I never saw the opposite, the converse, happen. But you get in a—like, Da Nang or Cam Ranh Bay or Qui Nhơn or any place where there are a lot of rear echelon troops, there’d be—after duty I was there’d be gangs and 100s of blacks, looking for trouble. Interviewer: Now, did you see any of that yourself or would you just hear— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Yeah. Now, I was fortunate. I didn’t have to put up with too much of it. And then I moved. When I left An Khê, I was working as a personnel assignment in the MOS personnel specialist. And we had a couple situations where in the fog of battle, casualties would be put on an aircraft and flown out. And the pilot for one reason might land it this place or this place or that place or that hospital. And there was no way to really track these people. And we had two �cases where 2 guys got med evaced out of the country but were declared missing in action. That cost a general his job. So, at the time, there were two evacuation flights. One to Da Nang, one to Saigon. They sent me to Saigon. Boy, you talk about a briar patch. 300 miles away from my nearest boss. Making a maximum of per diem, which was more than my base salary at the time. Still getting jump pay. It took me 20 minutes a day to do my job. Okay, the way it worked is C130s would fly around during the night. They would pick up casualties at Army hospitals that were going to be evaced and they would bring them to the stable flight, like Cam Ranh Bay or Da Nang. They would get there 7 or 8 o’clock in the morning. They would take them off, put them in the casualty station flight ward, doing the interview and medical assessment. And most of them were all assist—stable enough to be evaced. Occasionally, you’d have to keep one or send him to a hospital. We had a couple cases where one would die. But my job: to keep any MIAs from being declared erroneously. When the plane landed, I would be on the flight line and I would get a copy—I’d get my copy of the manifest. And I would go through the manifest and identify all the people from my unit. And I would go later and interview them in the hospital. “Hi, you Sergeant Jones? Sergeant Jones, could you tell me your last 4. Very good, sir. And there was a lot of PR to that too so I got a bunch of location forms for you to fill out. Here’s a pack of cigarettes if you need them. You need any help writing a letter, I can get somebody to help you out.” You know, it was…And then the next morning, they would leave. And—but that night, I would compile a report that I would send to our personnel people; the names of all the people who were being evacuated. That solved that problem. But man, that was a tough job. The air conditioning only worked about every other day in my room. (01:28:35) Interviewer: Yeah. Well, you’re getting closer to having a first world problem at that point. Veteran: Yeah. �Interviewer: Okay. Now, was this in Saigon that you were doing this? Veteran: Tan Son— Interviewer: Tan Son— Veteran: On Tan Son Air Force Base. Interviewer: Oh, okay. Veteran: And we were at the Rue de Pasteur Gate. Interviewer: Okay. And so, this is outside of the city proper. But would you get into Saigon? I mean, or— Veteran: Oh no. Yeah, I’d go anywhere I wanted. Interviewer: Okay. Weren’t there restrictions on what Americans could do in Saigon or who could go there? Veteran: There were restrictions on units. If you saw a couple snuffies—brown mud stained uniforms walking down the street yeah MPs would stop them. But I had Air Force identification, identifying me as a member of 22nd Casualty Staging Flight. Now, once again there, I got to do some foraging. I was there when the service issued a report on smoking cigarettes. Red Cross quit giving out cigarettes. I was getting—and the Red Cross was coming into war time. I felt good about that because they really didn’t do anything to help. So, I go down Rue de Pasteur to the USO and I explained to the manager of the facility. I said, “I need cigarettes. I need cigarettes to take down to take down and give out to patients.” And I don’t know what she thought the scale of operation was but she put me on a truck with about 40 cases of cigarettes. I mean, you know, a case like this. So, I go back to the station flight and it’s basically one small building with 40 beds in it. 50 beds, maybe. So, I am stacking that stuff up in the hallway. I make a head nurse take a couple cases in her office. She’s putting them under bunks. And the Air Force stole my �cigarettes. Not a pack or two at a time, it’s cartons at a time. So, I go to the head nurse and I said, “Listen, I got to have a conex container—I got to have 2 conex containers to keep you people from stealing these cigarettes.” She said, “I’ve had, Sergeant, I’ve had a conex container on requisition since I got here.” I said, “Okay.” So, there was a Vietnamese Army signal unit about a mile away on the perimeter at Tan Son Nhut. So, I go up there. I get it—get a guy to give me a ride up there in an Air Force ambulance. And I go in and find these advisor, a black E-6, about 50 years old. Got a kindred soul here. So, I said, “Listen, I am working out at the hospital here. I need a couple conex containers. Do you think we could find something to trade to get a couple conex containers down there?” So, I showed him a case of cigarettes and he says, “I think we can do something here.” So, we go into Sergeant Major’s office. He’s a Vietnamese Sergeant Major. And his eyes light up and you see all these golden teeth when he grins. So, Sergeant Major takes the cigarettes and puts them behind, gives the advisor one carton. And we go out back and a crane lifts 2 brand new conex containers up on this 5-ton truck that appears to be brand new. And I thought man, this is terrible. We are out in the bush trying to do our best to supply our troops with junk that’s falling apart and the new stuff is sitting down here. So, I get in the cab of this 5ton. We go down to the hospital and a crane is following us. I said, “Okay, I want one right here and one right there.” So, the crane takes them up and puts them down there. The truck driver gets in the cab of the crane and they take off. So, that’s kind of strange. Maybe something is wrong with his truck here? So, a couple days go by. “Whose truck is that? We kind of need to move that truck.” So, I go up, I go find the advisor and I say, “That 5-ton that you guys brought the cigarette containers down the other—what’s the story on that?” He said, “Oh, that’s your 5-ton.” So, I find some yellow paint and by the end of the day, it’s got one of these on each door. And it’s got this on the bumper. And I’ve got a logbook. And I—everybody lived happily ever after �except me. I lived in this BEQ. I think it was called the name Wyoming. And it was down this alley. And the 5-ton wouldn’t fit down the alley. So, I went up to Bien Hoa, I think. Went up to Bien Hoa and I finally found somebody that wanted a 5-ton and they gave me a ¾ ton, which I could park in front of the BEQ. And then when I got ready to leave, I sold it for 100 bucks. (01:33:50) Interviewer: Alright. Now, you live—living in Saigon like that…I mean, would you go into town for dinner or other things at night? Veteran: No. No. No, it was—I would stay—I didn’t stray very far. Maybe PX. Now, to digress a little bit, when I was at the replacement detachment, they had a C day. Conversion day. We had this military payment certificate in lieu of dollars. And lightning struck and they said, “Tomorrow, we are going to change.” So, there is this Korean tailor. There’s Korean tailors all over the place. I don’t know who they worked for. But he was crying because he had this box full of MPC that he had legitimately earned doing tailor work. But there was no provision for him to convert it. So, I said, “Bring it over here.” So, I would do up bundles of 200. And you know, there’s a lot of 5s and a lot of 10s. And I’d give—each one of the replacements going through, I said, “Here. Get that changed.” And one of my sergeants would be at the other end when he came out of the building, take the new stuff. And so, we counted it out and we got within 10 dollars of what he gave me. And he was just in tears. So, the day I leave, I am at the airport to leave to go to Saigon. The guy that’s the Korean that’s the boss of all the tailor shops was down there. And I said—he knew who I was and what I had done for his tailor shop. And he said—I said, “I am going to Saigon. You have any of your people down there?” “Oh yes.” I said, “Could you write me a letter of introduction?” So, he takes my notebook and he writes this Korean. And I go into any tailor shop in the country and I get whatever I wanted free. Well, I had �to go to this hospital up in Bien Hoa and the Army had just changed the uniforms that the nurses wore. It was a green, slightly heavier fabric with different configuration than the jungle fatigues made for females. And there are 100s of them there. So, I remember hearing head nurse saying to me they were wearing the class B modified dress uniform in the ward: dark blue trousers, light blue blouse. And they were chafing about that because they couldn’t get white coats or scrubs— they didn’t have scrubs then. They said, “How can we get jungle fatigues? Wish we could get some jungle fatigues.” So, I thought about that and I got a truck load of them down to Saigon. So, I go in and I see her and I said—I don’t know, there was 15 or 20 nurses working. I said, “Make me a list of all of your nurses with the proper name and their rank.” So, I take the stuff to the Korean tailor. And I have 4 sets of fatigues sewn up for each nurse with nametag, U.S. Air Force, and rank. And I take those over and I have them dumped off at the back of the ward. And I said, “Ma’am, could you step out for a minute? I got something for you.” She said, “I—” she said, “I ought to call—I ought to call CID and OSI and the MPs.” I said, “Well, 4 of them got your name on it.” She said, “I don’t know how you do that but you’ve saved us more than one time.” (01:37:21) Interviewer: Alright. Now, was this your last assignment in Vietnam? Veteran: That was my last assignment in Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay. Are there other incidents or things that stand out in your mind from your time there? Veteran: Nothing I want to record on tape. Interviewer: Okay. That works. That works. Now, you’ve had kind of a varied career there. Alright now at this point, were you kind of ready to be done with the Army? Veteran: Yeah. I was ready to move on. �Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I had a lot of money saved up. I was ready to get out of the Army and find something else to do. Interviewer: Okay. So, when do you actually leave Vietnam? Veteran: I left in April…April, ’69. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I was supposed to go home and get discharged and they screwed—I had less than 60 days left on my enlistment. And they reassigned me to Fort Gordon, Georgia and more than one person said, “You better go to Fort Gordon and get this straightened out.” So, I did and I got—I got that taken care of and I got out of the Army in May, about a month later. (01:38:26) Interviewer: Alright. And now that you are out, what do you do? Veteran: Well, a friend of mine had said to me, “If you would like to be a police officer, I can get you a job.” I said, “I don’t know. I’ll go check it out.” So anyway, this guy lived in D.C. and I wanted to go back to college and I wasn’t too keen on joining the police department. But it wasn’t a real police department. It was the U.S. Capitol police. And it was a generously—I would generously describe them as a 2nd tier security organization. But they made more money than the real cops downtown. Had blue uniforms, carried guns, worked static posts. I got thinking about it. I said, “You know, that might not be too bad.” So, I go up there, I fill out an application and do the test, do all the orals and everything. They said, “Okay, it’s going to take 46 months to do a background on you. Come back—we’ll contact you when you’re ready. Come back, start the academy.” And—so somebody else had told me about an opportunity. I went across the river to the Virginia National Guard. I joined the Virginia National Guard and they were sending volunteers to fire—fight fires in Idaho. And I went out, worked Bitterroot Selway �National Forest area in Idaho for 5 months, fighting fires. And then came back and went to work. And then subsequently enrolled. I guess I worked there about a year and I enrolled at American University. And I finished that in 3 years. (01:40:10) Interviewer: Okay. So, when did you start at American University? Veteran: Well, let’s see…I guess it was ’70—about 1970…Yeah, late fall of ’70. Interviewer: Okay. So, now you’re on a—you’re a Vietnam veteran and you’re on a college campus in Washington D.C. Veteran: Yeah. The fun started. I’d get—sometimes, I’d get an arrest every day. I had one particularly outrageous incident—okay, back up a little bit. There was a demonstration in May of ’70—November of ’70. 250,000 people and they got rowdy. And I got to break two nightsticks that day. Catharsis. Interviewer: Okay. Now, were you working for the Capitol police while you were in school? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I would go to school…they would agitate the shit out of you. I would agitate them back. I would go—sometimes I would go wearing my National Guard uniform carrying a revolver, my service revolver. Sometimes I go in my police uniform. Sometimes I go wearing jeans and a sweater with police web gear. The police leather gear. And I had one really nasty incident in ’73. A protester spit on me. And I got out a can of mace and got her on the ground. And I got her up on her feet and got her handcuffed up on her feet and she spit on me again. And I lost it. I totally lost it. I beat her with a blackjack. Broke teeth, knocked out teeth. And there was a crowd. I am holding off a crowd at gunpoint. And I am dragging her by her ankles. She’s—I got her handcuffed. Right out in the middle of Nebraska Avenue. Two lanes going each �way. And people—people are stopping and screeching on their brakes from swerving around us. And I got this pig laying out in the middle of the street and I am holding the gun. “Come on, any of you step off the curb, I am going to kill you.” Finally, the police got there, dispersed the crowd. And thank God: a judge convicted her of assault and resisting arrest. And I think she— took 100 stitches to put her face back together. And to this day, if she is still alive, if she looks— anytime she looks in the mirror, she’s going to remember about spitting on me. And there was a—I got a new measure of respect on campus after that. “How you doing?” “Good to see you.” (01:42:54) Interviewer: Wow. So, that was—so people were aware that you had done that? I mean I guess you were right there in that area, so people saw that and— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay… Veteran: Oh my god, there was a crowd of 100 watching me beat on her and drag her out in the street. And then the—there were, “Well, he’s going to go to jail over that.” “He’s going to get fired and he’s going to go to jail.” Interviewer: Did anybody talk to you about that afterward? Veteran: Oh, yeah. They called me all kinds of names. Interviewer: No, I mean the, like, the people in the police. Veteran: Oh my god, all but...I must have had investigators from metropolitan, not my department. Homicide was—crimes against a person and homicide. Talked to them endlessly. Talked to U.S. attorney. I figured I was done for. I mean I had—and it was pretty bad. If that happened today, you’d go to prison. Interviewer: Yeah. �Veteran: But when she spit on me again, I hit her in the mouth with that blackjack and it felt so good. Interviewer: So, did you get reprimanded or punished in some way? Or…? Veteran: Yeah, yeah. They wouldn’t let me carry a blackjack or a mace on campus anymore. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: But they—and they wouldn’t—and the Dean of Students told me to leave my gun at home. And I said, “You lost on that one already.” (01:44:11) Interviewer: So, did you finish the degree there then? Veteran: Got a degree in accounting. A double major in accounting and statistics. Interviewer: And then where do you go from there? Do you stay with the police? Veteran: No. My word, I got away from those people as quick as I could. I went to work for a local accounting firm in D.C. And I worked there and then I worked a couple of—went to work for the accounting firm, they said, “You’re a good guy and you’ve got a good raise here. You’re a good accountant but you ain’t us. But we will find you a job, don’t worry about it. Not many people are us.” Thank God. They—I got a job with the Washington Post. And I went down there and worked for a couple days. And they said, “Well, you know…We got just the place for you.” They got an internal warehouse across the river in Alexandria where they unloaded ships of newsprint and took them to the various printing plants. Various printing plants. And after a year down there, I was the controller/officer manager/software developer/manager of data processing/customs broker/ships agent and captain—I was the acting ensign in the Coast Guard auxiliary and the Captain of the port of Alexandria. Interviewer: Well, that’s pretty good. So, how long does all that last? �Veteran: Well, I lasted—I lasted about 3 years there and I found an opportunity that was a French company that I thought I was really going to go places. I went to work for them as director of finance and administration and I worked for them for 3 years. And they went bellyup. I had a good time working there. I was den mother for all these young Frenchmen that came over. I had a good time with them. When they would process in, I’d have paperwork for them. And about the third item down was draft registration. Well, it really wasn’t too bad because most of these guys were Cali Polytechnicians. And if you graduated from the Cali Polytechnic, you’re already a commissioned—you’ve got a degree in engineering and you’re a commissioned officer in the Army, Navy, or Air Force. So, that was a little humor. But they all—when they came over, the first thing they wanted to do—they wanted to buy the biggest car they could find. So, they would go out and scour the used car lots for ’72 Monte Carlos and Grand Prixs and Cad—what was the big Cadillac…? Interviewer: One of those Eldorados? Coupe de Ville? (01:46:47) Veteran: Coupe de Ville. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sound equipment. They could buy it for pennies, what would cost them pounds in the French market. And they were always getting…But if they behaved themselves and were nice to me, I’d take them shooting. And at that time, I legally owned a submachine gun. And if they would buy ammunition, I’d let them shoot my submachine gun. Well…And then I would take them skeet shooting. Well, the company wound up buying a couple skeet guns and a pretty generous layout of shotgun shells. And when the people came over from France, first order of business was go skeet shooting. I think I corrupted half the company. Interviewer: There you go. Alright. So, and then they fold. So, what happens to you? �Veteran: Well, I went to work for this company called Quantum Computer Services and they went bankrupt and they re—they were reincarnated as Controlled…Something else. And then they filed and went—they changed their name to AOL and went public. And they gave me 500 shares of stock and said, “You’re not polished enough for us.” That 500 shares of stock doubled about 12 times. I said, “Cried all the way to the bank.” (01:48:19) Interviewer: So, how did you wind up in Nashville? Veteran: Well, I laid around and I had spent all my AOL money. And I got bored and I bought a restaurant and…I bought several restaurants and ran restaurants and I loved it and I did very well at it. But in the ’03, I started having some health problems. I was 55 years old. And the doctor said, “You need to find a change of venue and a new occupation.” So, I spent a year getting rid of everything and my daughter is living here in Nashville—in Nashville then. And I moved—I wanted to be closer to the family and I wanted to get out of restaurants because I had done some dumb things like done my own TV commercials and publicity stunts. Too many people knew me. And I came down here and started buying real estate. And about to get out of that business and retire fully for the last time. And now I’ve got grandkids to take care of. Interviewer: Alright. So, now you look back at the time you spent in the service. How do you think that affected you or what did you take out of it? Veteran: Well, in my case it was—okay, a whole bunch of things were going on here. There’s a warrior spirit. I don’t want to brag about it; it’s there. Every generation in my family as far back as we can trace, has been warriors. And I would not call myself a warrior on that scale but I feel the urge. We have family members who fought on both sides of the Civil War and by virtue, a couple uncles in the South Carolina Royalist. We had people who fought on both sides of the Revolution. And we certainly had people that fought against the crown in England. And France �and Scotland. And Wales. So, it comes naturally. If you research Hodgecore—Hodgespur— you’ll see I inherited some of his genes. (01:50:23) Interviewer: Alright. But in a way, that part kind of brought out something that was in you. Now do you think that you learned anything from the process? Or…? Veteran: I learned a lot about people. You have an incredible amount of control over people, total strangers, just by the way you speak. How you speak to them. Say that young lady that brought us this pitcher of water? “When you smile, you make me wish I was young and skinny and good-looking.” Interviewer: Yeah, and now you’re on tape saying that so your wife can see that. Or is she used to it? Veteran: She’s heard it 1000 times. Interviewer: Alright. (01:51:03) Veteran: Now, an interesting experience…Last extension leave I went on, before I went on leave, I got to looking at these orders and there are all these numbers down. You know, I finally asked them, I said, “What are all these numbers down here?” They said, “Well, most of them are fiscal authorizations.” And I said, “Tells me—tells somebody where I am able to go to and fly to and…?” “Yeah.” I said, “Well, if I were in Seattle and I wanted to go to Tokyo instead of Saigon, what authorization number would I have to have?” They said, “Well, it would be 0682.” Made a note. I said, “If I wanted to go from Tokyo to Manila, what authorization code would I need?” Wrote that down. Recast the orders with all the right numbers on them. Now, when you, your 30—when you extend, you get 30-days free leave that starts when you hit the U.S. and it stops when you leave the U.S. And it would be unfair to hold you to a stricter standard than that because you will probably have—be delayed a couple days getting back and you might be �getting delayed a couple days coming back. Well, I go to passenger services and I say—I circle the number and I say, “I’d like to have a ticket to Japan. Ichikawa, as a matter of fact.” So, I go there, it’s raining, it’s cold. I said, “I don’t like this place.” So, I go down to passenger services and I said, “I want to go to Taipei.” So, I go to Taipei. Now, I had learned in Taipei at the American Embassy, if you take a set of military orders, they’ll sell you 6 bottles of liquor on those orders. But they cancel out so you can’t use that set of orders again. Well, when I landed in Taipei, I had about 50 sets of orders. So, I would go there every day and I would buy 5 bottles of the cheapest, nastiest blended whiskey you could buy, for less than a dollar a bottle. And a 40ounce bottle of Jack Dan—Johnnie Walker Black Label for 3 dollars. It’s 60 now. And I would go out and I would give the cab driver a bottle—my cab driver a bottle. Go back to the hotel, give the hotel a bottle. Give the guy who managed the hotel a bottle. And then the…The compliment—the hostess staff would get a couple. And then, one of the hostesses and I would spend the rest of the day drinking that bottle of Black Label Scotch. So, about 3 weeks, I get— man, I got to get out of here. My liver is killing me. So, I get a flight to Manila. I wander around Manila for a couple days. I said, “I better be getting back. I’ve been gone 2 months.” So, I go back and I know they’re going to throw me in jail. So, I go up and see the first—I go check in with the first sergeant. New first sergeant—the old one rotated. “Hey top, how you doing? I’m back.” He said, “Who the hell are you?” Didn’t say a word. I got away being gone for 2 months. (01:54:21) Interviewer: Alright. So, it’s an educational experience on a lot of different levels. Veteran: That’s a— Interviewer: It certainly makes for a good story. Veteran: Indeed, it does. �Interviewer: So, thank you very much for taking the time to share it today. (01:54:31) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SoutherlandJ2153V Title A name given to the resource Southerland, James (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-15 Description An account of the resource Jim Southerland was born in St. Louis, Missouri in 1946 and graduated high school in 1966. He joined the Army on May 19th, 1965. Southerland completed his Basic Training at Fort Polk, Louisiana, and then advanced infantry training at Fort Gordon, Georgia. At Fort Benning, Georgia, he also completed jump school. His first deployment was to Germany where he took part in the Nijmegen March in Holland. After reenlisting, Southerland was deployed to Vietnam with the 1st Brigade, 1st Calvary Division as an RTO (radiotelephone operator) for his platoon leader and eventually became a squad leader. He was involved in the Tet Offensive in early 1968 before his last assignment as an MOS personnel specialist in Saigon. Southerland left Vietnam in April, 1969, and left the service in May, 1969, but remained active in the Virginia National Guard. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Southerland, James W. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b203229da78ec83608b418be208f6606.mp4 8536692a753a4e9fa15c8ca2bfe3919b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1f26a55d62bb17208bec1a10b6d4c803.pdf 3823906995f5cf16da021c60fcef49eb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran : Harold Soper Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Christopher Kroupa Interviewer: We’re talking today with Harold Soper of Grand Rapids Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Ok, can you start us off with some background on yourself, and to begin with where and when were you born? Veteran: I was born in 1920, April 16 in Indianapolis Indiana. I lived there three years and then we moved to Berrien Springs, Michigan. Lived there for about six years and then we moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan. Where I lived all my life. Interviewer: Okay Veteran: Until I went into college and went on my own. Interviewer: Alright, now what was your family doing for a living when you were growing up? Veteran: My dad was, worked for Kraft, Kraft cheese, he was a district manager for Kraft Foods. And he had all of Western Michigan and he had northern Indiana. And his job was to go around to make sure all the salesmen were selling the products and were doing their jobs. Interviewer: Ok �Veteran: So, he was a manager for them. Interviewer: Ok so now was that a steady job for him for him in the thirties? Veteran: Oh definitely. Interviewer: Okay so, there’s a depression going on and maybe not hitting you as directly as some people. Veteran: Didn’t hit us at all. Interviewer: Ok alright and then where did you go to high school? Veteran: I went to high school in Grand Rapids named Creston, Creston High school. Interviewer: That’s still there, yeah, ok. And when did you graduate high school? Veteran: 1938. Interviewer: Alright and after you got out of high school, where did you go? Veteran: I went to Michigan State for four years. �Interviewer: Ok and were you still in college when Pearl Harbor happened? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Ok and do you remember how you heard about it? Veteran: Oh yes, I remember, I was, I belonged to a fraternity, and we were, we were, just kinda parting, doing some uh part… (2:00) Interviewer: Partying yeah. Veteran: And at the time of day I heard about it oh it was awfully exciting and awfully disturbing let’s put it that way. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: Yeah that was terrible because we were graduating, and we knew that it would affect us. �Interviewer: Alright, now what did you do about that? Did you go off and enlist, or did you wait to get drafted? Veteran: No I, well I waited to graduate and I was drafted before I graduated. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: I had to graduate after I was drafted. Interviewer: Alright and did they allow you to stay in school to finish the term or? Veteran: Uh-huh (Nods head yes). Interviewer: Ok. Veteran: The draft ward had to get another list of men, and I was it. Interviewer: Right, ok now once you’ve been drafted then, so now it’s the middle of 42 at this point, so I guess July, where did they send you then for training? Veteran: Fort Belvoir for basic training, three months of basic training. �Interviewer: Ok and what did that consist of? Veteran: Oh, that consisted of going on marches, learning about various weapons that we used, quite a few classes, but a lot of training to build us up and strengthen us. We did marches and calisthenics and all that type of thing. Interviewer: Ok, Veteran: To get ourselves into shape. Interviewer: Alright, now let’s see, is that in Virginia? Veteran: Yes Interviewer: Yeah ok, now were all of you there just for general training, or were you all going to go into the same part of the army? Veteran: No, we just for general training, Interviewer: Ok Veteran: People went various places after that. �Interviewer: Alright, now when you were at Michigan State, had you done any ROTC there? (4:00) Veteran: No Interviewer: Ok Veteran: I had no interest in that. Interviewer: And that wasn’t a requirement at the time you went there? Veteran: (Shakes head no) Interviewer: Ok, alright so now you spend three months in Virginia, and at Fort Belvoir did you have to stay on the base the whole time? Veteran: On weekends we could, we could take off. Interviewer: And did you remember if you went anywhere? Like to Washington or Richmond? Veteran: Haha, yeah, I went to Richmond and I actually found a young gal there and went to see her every weekend I could. Got so attracted to her that after I was on furlough, I invited her up to �Grand Rapids to meet my family. And I think she was very disappointed but then I went off to the wars and we corresponded for a bit of time, but I finally cut it off. Interviewer: Ok um, but in the meantime, you had a pretty good time while in basic training? Veteran: Yup Interviewer: Yeah, at least better than most, ok now once you finished the training then what did they do with you? Is this where they sent you to Texas or? Veteran: Then, then, we were assigned to an air force administrative group, to go, well we were put on a troop ship, and the troop ship because of the German U-Boats we had to go way around South Africa, South America I mean, South Africa I mean, South Africa way down into the cold area down there and up to Bombay, and I got off at Bombay and four of us were supposed to go to this Air Corps administrative thing I talked about, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. (5:56) Veteran: But when we got there, we found out that the class had already started so then they assigned us to another group. They assigned us to a group out of Wyoming, the head of the group �was a very nice guy from Wyoming and all the troops were sheep herders. And I came in as a private, as a, *Phone ringing in background* Interviewer: Let’s wait for that to finish ringing here. *Phone reads phone number* Veteran: See that isn’t for us. Interviewer: Yeah, right. Veteran: We get those all the time. Interviewer: Yeah, oh yeah Interviewer: Okay, well, let’s Veteran: So, I went into the Army as a private Interviewer: Right �Veteran: And, just by the grace of God I got into this, this particular company, Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: And these guys were a bunch of, they had never been to college or just a bunch of sheep herders. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: They were prone to drink a lot and, so the guy was a corporal, he goofed off and so I got his position and over a period of about three months I got all the way up to Master Sergeant. How they, there was one guy who was a Tech Sergeant which is which is like may starting salary grade six, there was a guy there that Tech Sergeant fired and he he’d rather have that position which had different duties then the master, so I got all the way to Master Sergeant in a short period of time. Interviewer: Okay, now to get over I mean to get to the Indian Ocean, I mean you talked about going around Africa and so forth, do you remember anything about that sea voyage? (7:59) Veteran: Twice, twice our boat had to make a sudden jerk to avoid a German U-Boat. �Interviewer: Right, do you, Veteran: That was it, that was the only exciting thing. Interviewer: Okay now were you in a convoy or just by yourself? Veteran: Oh we were, the troop ship was, was a large, it had been a pleasure boat. Interviewer: Okay so an ocean liner. Veteran: Yeah and I think we had ten thousand troops I think on there. It was a nice big boat. Interviewer: Okay, and some of those were fast enough that they went without escorts. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We, we had when we went around Rio de Janeiro, in that area, we had air cover. Interviewer: Mm-hmm, yeah cause that’s available from there and that was part of it, but were there parts of the ocean you were just out there by yourself? �Veteran: That’s right. Interviewer: Okay, do your, was the weather bad or was it ok? Veteran: No, I remember the weather was nice . Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Alright and then do remember anything about Bombay, you stayed there a while? Veteran: Oh yeah, what happened was, the four of us, got there and the place that we were supposed to go, they already started so they put us on a, told us to just stay there so we were there seven days. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So over seven days we just wandered around the town of Bombay. We were GIs and the people there were all good to us, and it was a nice experience, and then we got on a small boat, it took us up the Tigris-Euphrates River to Khorramshahr, Iran. Interviewer: Right . Veteran: And right across the river was Basra, Iraq. �Interviewer: Mm-hmm, yup Veteran: They were right across the river from each other. And so, we were stationed there for a period of time. Interviewer: Okay, so what kind of setup did you have in Iran, just live in tents or in a town? Or? (9:59) Veteran: Yeah, we were, we were in tents and we were in tents so we got there, they had barracks made by the time we left. They did a lot of construction work there while we were there, making it a little nicer for the troops that came after us. But while we were there, we went into town, I went all the way out to Tehran, took a truck, a truck took us up to Tehran and we had another, Hamadan was another city in Iran that troops went up too that was a nice town and good to us and also we went over to Basra and I went up into Iraq, I can’t remember the names of the cities but up 100, 200 miles up into Iraq. So, we really got to see that country while we were there. Interviewer: Ok, how, what kind of impression did you have of the people in these places? Veteran: Well, the Iranian Government was really bad, they killed off people like, like nothing. They were like the Russians, if anyone stole or something why they just killed them. But the Russians said they buried them alive if they caught someone stealing. They were both the �Russians and the Iranians were cruel to their people. But, Iraq their government was a little more humane. Interviewer: Now did you have a sense that the people resented your being there or were happy to have you there or didn’t care? Veteran: Well see I was, like I said in charge of this what they call the oil dump and their sending all these things up to Russia and I had forty, forty foremen, and they were all Muslims. (12:09) Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: All college-educated Muslims, and they just loved me, Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Because I didn’t smoke or drink and they were so glad to know that Americans weren’t these tough guys that these construction workers were getting drunk all the time, smoking and all. And I told them those guys, they’re not typical Americans at all and I found out that, you know I was Christian and again I didn’t smoke or drink at all and they just loved me. I treated them good and then they oversee the 800 workers that loaded these trucks. �Interviewer: Okay, now had they been educated in Iran or any of them gone abroad? Veteran: I think, I can’t tell ya, they were all college-educated. I don’t know. Interviewer: But they spoke English? Veteran: Oh, very well. Interviewer: Yeah okay, now my understanding is that what was going on in Iran in part was that the British and the Soviets were sorta taking over the main railway that went from the Persian Gulf up north. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So that was a supply route that you’re using. Veteran: That railroad was one of the supply routes. Interviewer: Okay and the British were in charge of the half from Tehran south, did you ever see any British Military personnel? Veteran: Oh yes, when I went into town. �Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: So never, I never cozied up to them because usually they were drinking and kinda that’s where I would see them you know in these restrooms and places and they’re kinda rowdy. Interviewer: Okay, so you didn’t have any official dealings with them or anything else like that? Veteran: No (13:58) Interviewer: Okay, now when you’re over in Iran, did you have much communication with people back home? Veteran: Uh yeah, what did we have, we had was it something like an email it was, Interviewer: Now they have V-Mail right? Veteran: V-Mail! (Nods head yes) Interviewer: Right and then they take a picture of it or whatever. Veteran: Exactly. �Interviewer: Yeah Veteran: And I was pretty, pretty faithful in keeping contact with my family. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay, did you feel like you were kind of missing out on the war over there or was it interesting enough that it didn’t matter? Veteran: Well I’ll tell ya my dad was in World War One and he was a captain. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And he actually was right in the fight, in fact we actually was out in no man’s land and caught a German soldier and brought him back but and he was quite disappointed that first I didn’t become an officer. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: And second that I, where I went, �Interviewer: Right. Veteran: He, his first reaction was that he wished it were otherwise but then after that he accepted it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And did you have any feeling about that yourself or you were just gonna go where they sent you? Veteran: Exactly. Interviewer: Okay, now eventually you rotate home, you don’t stay in Iran for the entire war. How did that come about? Veteran: Yeah, you have to be over there, I didn’t know that at the time but, eighteen months before you go back to the states. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And so after 18 months I, I came to the headquarters there and said I wanted to go to the Quartermaster Officers training, and that’s when they told me, well Quartermaster is already in session, they’ve, in 2 or 3 weeks that will be that, but besides you’re not qualified because you’re not a limited service guy, which is one of the requirements, so I, that’s when I said I �would go with the Corps of Engineers. So, I signed up with them and went into their basic training. (16:36) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: There’s a thirteen-month thing to become an officer. I was there 10 weeks of that terribly hard training and then I, like I told ya, the officer in charge there said, you know because you’re doing so well in the written exams and all, you’re gonna pass but 40% of these guys are gonna fail because we’re gonna take 60% of them. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And these guys ya know they build Bailey Bridges and they’ve been enlisted men, it’s a shame because you can be an officer but you’ll never be able to do a good job of commanding them if you don’t understand the work, and I agreed with that wholeheartedly, and so, I agreed to quit after 10 weeks, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And like you say, he, well he just told me to go to wherever the Quartermaster LCS was. Anyway I was sent there and when I got there like I say they were already in operation and �so I went back to the Corps of Engineers and said place me someplace and so I was very fortunate, ya know I had a college education in accounting and so they sent me to Chicago where they were, they were, had military contracts as we got near the end of the war, and many of the military contracts were being closed. So that was my job, (18:30) Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: To close military contracts, filling office standpoint. And so, I lived in Chicago for one year what they call, *Phone ringing in background* Veteran: Called rations and quarters, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: I stayed in a hotel and got my food paid for, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And I had a certain amount of money to spend. �Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And after one year there, they transferred me to Indianapolis, and I did the same thing up there. Interviewer: Okay, now where were you when the war ended? Were you in Chicago at that point? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah and then I went up there and you know, it was just wonderful the work I did, I was trained in school and I can do and not many people could do that, and I lived (illegible). Interviewer: Right, now when you were doing this kind of work, did problems come up? Were there any companies you were dealing with that were Veteran: Oh yeah. (19:59) �Interviewer: Anything, Veteran: In fact, I had to many times I had to visit these companies. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: Oh yeah. Oh, I don’t think I ever got one contract closed that I didn’t have to at least one visit. I had a company car and in fact a lot of times I had a company driver to take me these places depending on if it was close by at all then I could drive the company car, but if they thought it was all the way or a dangerous way I’d have a driver. Interviewer: Okay, so a company car, like an army car basically. Veteran: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Yeah, alright, now you were still a Master Sergeant at this point? Veteran: *Nods head* Mm-hmm. Interviewer: And then did you go in a formal dress uniform and try to look impressive? Veteran: No, no I was always in a uniform. �Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: Always. And actually, in the Army most people have more respect for a Master Sergeant then a certainly a Second Lieutenant. Interviewer: Oh yeah. Veteran: And probably even the First Lieutenant, in fact when I was in Iran there, I had a First Lieutenant who was there to, as my boss, Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: And he just sat around. Interviewer: Well the Sergeants do the work, Veteran: I did all the work, he didn’t, he was there, he’d been in the war and he actually had been wounded. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And he was, he’d been in the hospital, the reserves for recovery. �Interviewer: Now, the unit that was in Iran, you said they were from Wyoming, would that have been a reserve unit or National Guard unit? Veteran: It was a reserve. Interviewer: Okay. So, you had your core group of guys who were in it and, Veteran: Yup. Interviewer: That’s where they got sent, okay. Now in that unit were you pretty much the only guy from someplace else? Veteran: Yeah. Uh no, there were four of us. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: There were four of us. Interviewer: Yeah, the four of you came together that’s right. Veteran: The other three guys, they never advanced at all, (22:03) �Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: They didn’t care to. Interviewer: So, they just joined the rest of the group and, Veteran: Yeah, they just joined it and then they didn’t care whether they got to be an officer, or even an enlisted officer or not, Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: But they’re nice guys, but they were certainly nothing like me. Interviewer: Right, now it’s a lot of times soldiers, if they’re stationed in a rear area in some other country, can get into a lot of interesting kinds of trouble, there could be women, there could be black markets or other things like that, did much of that happen? Or in Iran was the society more tightly controlled than that? Veteran: Yeah, there were women and some of these guys would get involved with them, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. �Veteran: But I, I just wasn’t aware of much of it, Interviewer: Right. Veteran: I didn’t do it myself, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And I just heard what they did, but I’m not too knowledgeable about that, Interviewer: Right, and I wouldn’t think that in, you would necessarily have a lot of bars and places like that. Veteran: They had the bars, Interviewer: They had bars okay, I guess they wouldn’t after the Islamic state took over, but that was a long time afterward. Veteran: Mm-hmm. Right, oh yeah. Interviewer: Alright, so when you were talking about doing again this business of closing contracts and things like that, what kinds of business were you dealing with? Were they manufacturers or? �Veteran: Oh yeah, they were, one of them was weapons manufacturer, a number of them supplied things like clothing, Interviewer: Mm-hmm (22:58) Veteran: Uniforms and I remember several of them were in the uniform and, let’s see what other things were there, supplying that the military need that weren’t necessarily military items, but I don’t remember any food companies, Interviewer: Mm-hmm, okay Veteran: That’s about it. Interviewer: Okay alright, but yeah, I mean you have all this stuff that you need to run the offices with and all the various kinds of equipment besides the weapons and so forth. But basically, you were pretty much responsible for a wide range of different things and the companies that were just in those areas? Veteran: Yeah �Interviewer: Okay, alright now did the Army, *Phone ringing in the background* Veteran: Aren’t they awful Interviewer: Yeah, did they army make any effort to get you to stay on or did they just want everyone to go away? Veteran: They did, they did ask me if I didn’t wanna go into, become an Officer and stay, Interviewer: Right Veteran: I had, in the end they gave me that opportunity. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: But I turned it down. Interviewer: Okay, now so when did you get out of the Army? Veteran: I got out in ‘46. �Interviewer: Okay, so after you got out what did you do? Veteran: I went back to, to University of Michigan and got my master’s degree, Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: And actually that, my tuition and everything was paid for by some organization that heard about what I did and all, and I can’t remember what the organization was, but it was some organization in Chicago that paid for all of that for me. (26:02) Interviewer: Okay, you mean somebody that you had somehow done business with, or had a connection with from that time? Veteran: No, I didn’t have any connection with them, Interviewer: Okay Veteran: They just made that available and somebody in the military there made that available to me, Interviewer: Okay, �Veteran: And then contacted, Interviewer: So, you got into that from, Veteran: So, I mean they were just doing it for anybody that they felt had done a good job in the military. Interviewer: Okay, and was this in accounting or something else that you did? The master’s degree. Veteran: Business Administration. Interviewer: Okay, and then once you finished that, did you go find a job? Veteran: Oh yeah, first I, I wasn’t sure what company I wanted to go with, and so I became a CPA, certified public accountant. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: And I went around and audited the books of a lot of people, I did that for a couple of years, and then, then I went to Ford Motor Company. I was there for 26 years. �Interviewer: Mm-hmm Veteran: I started out as a, as an auditor, internal auditing, and I worked up to the controller of the company. Interviewer: Okay, and did you retire out of there, or move onto something else? Veteran: No I retired from there. I retired from there about, what I did, no I didn’t, I retired from there but then I went back into a, CPA work. Interviewer: Okay, yeah. Veteran: And it was just, it was just the Lord leading because one of the big clients I had was in Muskegon, and the job there took about two months in the middle of winter, and that’s when I met my wife, one of the gals who worked at the client, was a friend of my, my wife and she fixes up on a blind date, and that was the beginning, (28:11) Interviewer: Alright Veteran: That was, yeah that was wonderful. �Interviewer: Okay, when you kind of look back at the time you spent in the service, what do you think you took out of that, or learned from it? Veteran: Well certainly, oh, I grew up I guess, and became an adult and knew what was going on in the world, and I was a little bit, little bit unhappy with the way I, I lived a more controlled life, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: In the church, and the church community you know, I just didn’t know a lot, some of the people out there who live so vulgarly, Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Veteran: And so yeah, I think the main thing I say is I grew up and knew what was generally going on in the world and I was then happy to come back into a climate of a church and a Christian school, and all that type of thing, it made me appreciate it more. Interviewer: Alright, okay, well you were telling me you know you don’t remember as much as you used to but I can say that you told us enough to make this worth coming and recording the interview, and I can safely say that I’ve never talked to anybody who had either of your jobs, so thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me today. Veteran: Well it’s been my honor and my privilege to do it, thank you. �Interviewer: Alright. (29:54) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SoperH2123V Title A name given to the resource Soper, Harold (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Description An account of the resource Harold Soper was born on April 16, 1920 in Indianapolis, Indiana and settled into Grand Rapids in 1929. Soper was drafted into the Army before finishing college and went on to supervise the American Oil Dump being shipped through Iran and Iraq to the Soviet Union. After being turned away from the Army Corps of Engineering and officers' training, he was relocated to Chicago and Indianapolis to close domestic military contracts. After leaving the service, Soper finished his schooling and earned a master's degree in accounting. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Soper, Harold S. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II