290 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e4ea99bf3247032b472120277f6bd86c.pdf 28d19b173b1fe999879cb7739b6225dc PDF Text Text Day 402. Saturday April 17 (she, her, hers). by windoworks Just sayin’. Everyone seems worried about variants, how long the vaccination will last and what to do here in Michigan where the numbers keep increasing. Kent County has a positivity rate of over 17%. There is an argument about whether Michigan should be locked down again or whether we should give up and let everyone decide for themselves. I read the above post from the Kent County Health Department and I wonder: who is going to follow those rules? Everyone is worrying about breakthrough infections (infections of the fully vaccinated). The number is tiny - less than 1%. Here’s this to reassure you: NPR: Once we reach herd immunity and circulation levels drop, breakthrough infections will become even rarer. When was the last time you worried about getting diphtheria or pertussis? The vaccines that prevent them have similar efficacy rates — 97% for diphtheria, and a range between 71 and 98% for pertussis — as the COVID vaccines. Here’s some other news items: Crooked Media: A 19-year-old gunman shot and killed eight people at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis on Thursday night, and wounded several others before taking his own life. The gunman was a former employee of the facility, �and his mother warned law enforcement officials last year that he might try to commit “suicide by cop.” The authorities put him on an “immediate detention mental health temporary hold,” according to the FBI, and confiscated a shotgun that was not returned. It’s not yet clear when or how he got his hands on a rifle, but Indiana doesn’t require a background check, training, or a permit to carry one, so not too much mystery there. Thursday marked the third mass shooting in Indianapolis this year, and at least the 45th mass shooting for the U.S. in the last month. President Biden has renewed his calls for Congress to pass gun-control legislation, which will not happen until Senate Democrats end the filibuster. The 45th mass shooting for the US in the last month. A week or so ago, Oliver’s daycare had a safety drill. This time they told the children there was a tiger outside trying to get in. Oliver’s 20 months old - and now he knows what do to for an active shooter lockdown. I found that disturbing. Washington Post U.S. sanctions to be announced against six Russian companies that supported cyberattacks on federal agencies, companies. The measures, which also include the expulsion of 10 Russian diplomats, are an effort to make good on President Biden’s vow to hold Moscow accountable for malign actions, including the hacking operation commonly known as SolarWinds, which compromised nine federal agencies and about 100 private firms. Yesterday in retaliation, Putin expelled 10 US diplomats. I see the name calling has already begun. The Chinese government, having taken over Hong Kong and enforcing restrictive laws there, is now eyeing Taiwan.Its hard to say what the legal position of Taiwan actually is, except that there is push for independence. Meanwhile, this happened just over 3 months after January 6. Washington Post Founding member of Oath Keepers becomes first defendant to plead guilty in Capitol riot cases. Jon Schaffer, 53, of Indiana has agreed to cooperate against others in the domestic terrorism investigation that has led to charges against more than 400 people, according to court filings. He pleaded guilty to two felony charges: obstruction of an official proceeding of Congress and trespassing on restricted grounds of the Capitol while armed with a deadly or dangerous weapon. There was also the meeting of an inaugural group of Republicans whose ideology seems to echo White Supremacy and the Ku Klux Klan. A white supremacist is a person who believes that the white race is inherently superior to other races and that white people should have control over people of other races. Miriam-Webster. And if you were wondering: �The Ku Klux Klan was (and still is) a viciously racist white supremacist organization that first arose in the South after the end of the Civil War. Its members opposed the dismantling of slavery and sought to keep African Americans in a permanent state of subjugation to whites. The reason behind this was that this allowed the whites to make an enormous amount of money. If you had slaves, you didn’t have to pay them, because you owned them. They were your property just the same as a dining table or bed. As well as money, it gave the slave owners power. Two extremely addictive items. I always wonder why my skin color is referred to as ‘white’? I think I’m closer to pink, but I guess pink people doesn’t hold the authority of white people. Humans come in an enormous range of colors, but we are all exactly the same inside. I could give you sound scientific reasons for differing skin colors, eye shapes, hair colors etc - but you can look that up for yourself. I think the important thing is that we are all the same inside. Oh, and I read this and I thought this was something we should consider carefully: a group of scientists have cloned a human/monkey fetus. They say they are doing this for spare parts. I think I read a fiction book about this. Beings bred for spare parts. I hope the Scientific Ethics Board will struggle with this. No flashback today. I need to organize my photos first. Oliver ��I’ll leave you with this: � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-17_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-402 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-17 Title A name given to the resource Day 402 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f31daa0544b652f6084384dffbda409.pdf 5a5f10a47a94866113b56f2be0d93151 PDF Text Text Day 401. (she, her, hers) by windoworks Just to make you laugh; Crooked Media: It’s been another brutal week of anti-trans bills advancing in state legislatures: Alabama and North Dakota lawmakers have approved trans sports bans, the Florida House has passed a bill that would subject student athletes to genital inspections, and the Texas Senate is considering a bill that would take children away from their parents if parents provided them with gender-affirming health care. A friend of mine just posted a story about their child who has decided that they want to be a boy. For the family it has been a life affirming journey filled with love and understanding. For some reason, some �Republicans think that transsexuals are making a choice. There is no choice here. We are talking about a decision that is difficult and painful and lays the person open to ridicule. There is (shock, horror!) actual scientific evidence which explains trans sexuality. When I say explains, I actually mean to another scientist or geneticist because although I read it thoroughly, I didn’t really understand it, but I could see it was scientific and logical. Years ago, my hairdresser, who was a gay man, gave me the clearest explanation of being gay. He said: its the same as eye color. You may want to be a brown eyed person and even if you wear brown contacts, underneath you will always be blue eyed. And thats the most profound thought: underneath, you will always be exactly who you are. What these bills are doing is forcing people to regard others true sexuality as a crime. I think that’s despicable. Last night we attended a 2 hour zoom retirement celebration for Craig. It was wonderful and sad and exhausting. Zoe, Asher and Oliver joined in, and Craig’s brother Drew was online also. It marked a major step in our journey. One of the most surprising items was a current student of Craig’s playing Craig’s fathers saxophone - and sounding spookily like him. To explain: after Gordon died, Craig inherited his tenor saxophone. He didn’t really play it because he has his own tenor sax. So after some discussion with the family, he sold it to his student who absolutely loves it. I feel as though we are leaving little bits of ourselves behind, here in the US, and I hope that’s a good thing. First something uplifting: Crooked Media: The Illinois House has passed a bill that would require public schools to teach AsianAmerican history. But I am including this next tidbit to demonstrate what a depth we have fallen to. In my entire life I could not imagine living in a society where this discussion took place (and in all seriousness). In the end, they built a gallows. Washington Post: In the weeks before supporters of then-President Donald Trump assaulted the U.S. Capitol, TheDonald.win forum commenters debated how best to build a gallows for hanging — or simply terrifying — members of Congress deemed disloyal. What kind of lumber? What kind of rope? And how many nooses? A user named “Camarokirk” had a different suggestion: “I think you should build a guillotine,” he wrote Dec. 30. “A guillotine is more scary.” User AsaNisiMAGA countered with a practical concern: “It’s better symbolism in every way. But it might prove more difficult to get that big blade into town.” Such conversations flowed freely and visibly on TheDonald.win for weeks, underscoring the openly violent intent of some of the thousands of Trump enthusiasts who thronged the Capitol on Jan. 6, as well as the intelligence failures of the authorities charged with preparing for that day. The clashes left five people dead, including a Capitol Police officer. �Michigan continues to be the leader in catastrophic numbers of virus cases. Access to vaccinations is open to all 16+ and there is even a new do-it-yourself online appointment app. It makes no difference to Craig and I if the state is locked down or not. We continue to practice the same safety protocols and we live mostly isolated. No one is asking to see our vaccination cards although I imagine that is coming. And so we come to the end of our last day of the Caribbean cruise:. While Craig was hiking, I went to the Castries Waterworks Reserve where I boarded an Aerial Tram for a ride through the tropical canopy. �At this moment I was a bit �nervous. �Cameras clicking everywhere �Up through the tree �canopy And out at the top before turning and descending again. An incredibly beautiful, calming and quiet experience. I loved it. �Afterwards we walked through the gardens and this hummingbird drank from the feeder as I watched. �Our cruise was over and it was time to head home. Oliver ��� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-16_BenjaminPamela_Pd-Day-401 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-16 Title A name given to the resource Day 401 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5ca56b1132e92b3b3c14e5f35fd3f057.pdf b50f6639d9e6c93561db6ef918f47c0e PDF Text Text Day 400. Excuse me while I just lie down for a moment. by windoworks What am I saying? I’m already lying down - well sitting down in bed, with my IPad on my lap, just exactly as I have for the past 399 days. I wake up, eat my same breakfast every day and then set up the iPad and think about what I want to write. And what I write almost never bears any relation to what I decided to write. No, I can’t explain that except to say its a process. Well yesterday the piano went to its next safe home. Here’s some photos: First, get the trolley underneath - much harder than they thought �Down the front stairs �Over the last step on to the sidewalk �And after 2 tries the 3rd was the charm at getting it up the ramp and into the truck. �Arriving at Vinecroft �Maneuvering it into its new home �Look Ma, no piano! �Here’s a long article with a lot of questions answered about the vaccines: Washington Post: Knox: Some of my readers have expressed concerns about news reporting that the vaccines are effective for six months — they have interpreted that to mean only six months. What should they know? Jha: They should know that six months is a floor not a ceiling. They’re effective for at least six months — and that’s because we only have six months of data. More realistically, these vaccines are going to be effective for at least a year and maybe multiple years. Knox: Anecdotally, there seems to be a lot of concern and confusion about whether getting vaccinated protects you from getting infected vs. getting sick, and whether a fully vaccinated person can still spread the virus. What do we know? Jha: It’s frustrating. Here’s what people need to know. Our vaccines, all three of them, provide a high degree of protection against all the variants that we have so far — not perfect, and some variants will cause some breakthrough infections, but they’re going to be infrequent. All the vaccines protect people from getting sick and hospitalized, to a very high degree, 98 percent, 99 percent. Nothing in life is 100 percent, I suppose, except for taxes and death. And all the evidence so far says that these vaccines are terrific at reducing transmission. Again, probably not 100 percent, but they probably cut transmission 80 to 90 percent, and possibly more than that. So: Great protection against all the variants, near-perfect protection against severe illness and death, and very high degree of protection against transmission. Knox: A few Trump voters have told me they don’t want anything to do with “an experimental vaccine.” Is there an argument, especially for healthy younger people, to hold off until we know more about longterm effects? Jha: No. And here’s why: These vaccines have been tested now in hundreds of thousands of people. The truth is that, with all the vaccines we’ve ever created, any significant side effects, health consequences of vaccines, tend to show up in the days to weeks that follow. One of the reasons [the Food and Drug Administration] asks for two months of follow-up before they would authorize [is] they knew millions of people would get it. I have no real concerns about long-term effects. That’s not how vaccines work. If they’re going to have a negative effect, you’ll see it in the weeks that follow at the most, maybe out to two months, but not much later than that. We’ve literally had tens of millions of people around the world who’ve been vaccinated for longer than that [and] we’ve not seen significant issues. I don’t think there’s any concern for young people. And then the other thing I would say is we know young people can have long-term consequences of covid, including long-covid, neurological and psychiatric complications. To me this is a no-brainer. Knox: You’ve long been an advocate for carefully reopening schools —since last summer, I think. Has anything about the coronavirus variants made you rethink that? �Jha: No, at this point, we know so much about how to do it safely that as long as schools are implementing those safety precautions — including universal masking, ventilation — and now that teachers and staff are all vaccinated, I really do think we can open schools safely this spring. Knox: I feel like the first time you and I talked about this, we were still debating mask-wearing and wiping down groceries. What would you tell readers about the evolving messages from public health officials? Jha: I think the key point is that, with a novel virus, we’re going to learn and we’re going to change recommendations based on what we learn. In fact, science has been learning more and more about how this virus spreads — it doesn’t spread through surfaces, it spreads through the air. And therefore, all the focus on wiping and deep-cleaning was largely misguided. So apparently we can stop wiping down surfaces and groceries (Phew!) but keep masking, distancing and washing hands. Now here’s something that happened on Monday night: NPR: It wasn't a bird or a plane that gave Floridians a shock late Monday night. It wasn't even Superman. A meteor shot across the sky around 10 p.m. Monday. Residents along the state's Atlantic coast from West Palm Beach south to Miami shared videos of the surprising sight on social media. Dashcam footage and security videos showed a still, dark night suddenly lit up by what appeared to be a large fireball streaking diagonally across the sky. In just a few seconds, it was over. According to NASA, an asteroid is a small, rocky object that orbits the sun. A meteor is what happens when a meteoroid — a small piece of an asteroid or comet — burns up upon entering Earth's atmosphere, �creating a streak of light in the sky. There's disagreement online over whether the Monday night visitor was the asteroid 2021 GW4 that was expected to make a close shave with Earth's surface Monday evening. Zach Covey, a meteorologist for a local CBS affiliate in Florida, wrote on Twitter that if the meteor seen Monday was indeed 2021 GW4, it likely flew much closer to Earth's surface than what was originally expected. Covey said the asteroid made its closest approach of roughly 9,300 miles. He tweeted, "To put this in perspective, most close approach asteroids are between 1 and 3 millions miles from earth." Did you see the footage? I did. Too close for my liking. I’m beginning to regret watching all those comets hitting the earth movies. I already regret watching the movie Contagion and also I really regret watching The Day After Tomorrow - that movie where politicians ignore scientists and the earth snap freezes. And can I just say - why do politicians seem to almost always ignore the scientists and then scream for help from those same ignored scientists? I think if someone can imagine something it becomes possible. Automatic sliding doors came about (I think) through the TV series Star Trek. I’m still waiting for teleportation - imagine not having to spend hours and hours in an airplane to reach the other side of the world. Okay. Next day in the Caribbean. Saint Lucia is an Eastern Caribbean island nation with a pair of dramatically tapered mountains, the Pitons, on its west coast. Its coast is home to volcanic beaches, reefdiving sites, luxury resorts and fishing villages. Trails in the interior rainforest lead to waterfalls like the 15m-high Toraille, which pours over a cliff into a garden. The capital, Castries, is a popular cruise port. ― Google �The Queen Mary 2 �Craig signed up for a hiking excursion �Among the �trees Climbing up �At the top! �Castries below �It was harder climbing �down Holding on to ropes to get down safely. Tomorrow we’ll have my St Lucia excursion. Oliver �The piano leaving the house marks the beginning of, ‘we’re really doing this, aren’t we?’ �Today I’ll leave you with this: � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-15_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-400 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-15 Title A name given to the resource Day 400 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/41ed689ab9889d96833da637dd16c58b.pdf a6e8dc148f58ccf5bec03bd45999b37f PDF Text Text Day 399. by windoworks This morning the piano will be taken away, so last night when Zoe and Oliver FaceTimed, Craig played one of Oliver’s favorite songs on the piano. It was hard to tell if he liked it or not. But then he ran and got his toy piano with attached book and played sounds that Craig mimicked on our piano. It was an interesting thing to watch. Oliver plays atonal music, sometimes almost melodic. Craig has high hopes of him being a wind instrument musician, but I think Oliver might be a pianist or a percussionist or maybe both. Who knows? We are almost halfway through the month, and the temptation to pack more things is looming. We seem to be waiting for the next development while trying to stay isolated. Its not that we think we’ll catch the virus, but its better to be safe. One concern I keep thinking about is how will it be in Australia with us fully vaccinated, and only Craig’s mother having received the first dose? This morning, among other issues of the day, people are worrying about the one shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine. To explain: What kind of vaccine is the Johnson and Johnson COVID 19 vaccine? The Johnson and Johnson vaccine is made by taking a piece of DNA from the COVID-19 spike protein and combining it with an adenovirus, a type of virus typically involved in a common cold. (source-CDC) This adenovirus is just a way to carry instructions to your immune system – it is genetically modified so that it cannot give you a cold. The piece of COVID-19 DNA also does not give you an infection. This vaccine helps your immune system recognize the COVID-19 virus, and develop antibodies to protect you from future infection. The blood clots that everyone is talking about are exceedingly rare. (CNN) Six people out of an estimated 6.8 million who got the shot have developed a rare and severe type of blood clot, leading the CDC and the FDA to recommend a pause of the single-shot vaccine. All six cases were among women between the ages of 18 and 48. Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work in a new way: MRNA vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein— or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, is those vaccinated gain protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19. CDC So here’s how I understand it: Pfizer and Moderna teach our cells how to recognize Covid and fight against it, while other vaccines such as J&J, use a tiny piece of the virus to trigger an immune response, which is the same theory as the annual flu vaccine. For some reason which I don’t understand, Pfizer seems to be developing into the gold standard and although Moderna has been used almost as much as �Pfizer and has the equivalent protection rate, no one seems to be discussing it. I have read recently that Moderna gives at least 6 months protection from the virus. Here’s today’s statistics: First up, the world. 137M recorded cases yesterday. Deaths: 2.96M. In the US, 77,312 new cases yesterday and 987 deaths. In Michigan where the Governor is relying on people to do the right thing, we had 10,083 new cases yesterday. This was the second day in a row of just over 10,000 new cases. I don’t think some people are doing the right thing. Seen on FB: Republicans scream 'Governor, trust us to do the right thing…!' Yeah, right, 400% increase in COVID cases in Michigan. From NPR: So, take a look around — at your walls, your bed, maybe even your desk, if you've been working remotely. Does your space stress you out? If so, you have company. It's why lots of people have been making their homes cozier, calmer and more efficient since the pandemic began. There's even a name for it: "comfort decorating." We definitely indulged in this. Now all those wonderful new things will be enjoyed by the new owners. Oh well. And a little good news: Crooked Media: Tribes across the country are racing to preserve more than 150 indigenous languages that became even more endangered when the pandemic hit, and are counting on funding in the latest coronavirus relief package to do it. Coronavirus has killed Native Americans at more than twice the rate of white Americans, and the loss of elders means the loss of first-language speakers with irreplaceable stores of cultural knowledge. Tribes and nonprofits that support language-preservation efforts now need to accelerate what was already a race against time. The American Rescue Plan includes resources to make that possible (over vehement GOP objections), with $20 million in federal grants to fund projects like creating dictionaries, digitizing language resources, training teachers, and developing online courses. Earlier relief programs for tribes were plagued with delays, but the new grants are structured in a way that'll hopefully get money out the door faster. So to finish our day on Terre-de-Haute, we signed up for a chocolate and rum class. We tried young rum, older rum, rum aged in a whiskey barrel. We learned that we had all been eating chocolate the wrong way all our lives. You don’t chew, you put in on the roof of your mouth and let it dissolve slowly. If you then breathe in slowly through your mouth and out through your nose, you get a more intense chocolate taste and smell. In tasting rum, we learnt to smell it, roll it around in the glass, tip the glass on its side to check its viscosity and then hold a sip in your mouth to savor the flavor, followed by a second sip to notice the �difference. We had one member of our party who drank everything straight down and then ate all his chocolates. �����We bought some chocolate and we wobbled back to the jetty to wait for the next tender back to the ship. Next stop St Lucia. Oliver �I’ll leave you with this: �Workers load an All-Star Game sign onto a trailer after it was removed from Truist Park in Atlanta last week. Major League Baseball plans to relocate the game to Coors Field in Denver. (John Spink/Atlanta Journal-Constitution/AP) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-14_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-399 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-14 Title A name given to the resource Day 399 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ab772eb9df24a84d3798dc911bf932c.pdf ddbc2478f378800b7abc634f5f65c9bc PDF Text Text Day 398 by windoworks I’m happy to report that my eyes passed all tests and it will be another year before I have to have my eyes dilated again. My eye doctor was very surprised to hear that we weren’t allowed to visit Australia or New Zealand and that when we go, we will have to stay. I realize that because I read so much online news, I am more up to date on developments both here and overseas. Here’s the latest on the rising virus numbers: (CNN) As the US races to vaccinate more Americans, Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations are rising, predominantly among younger people who haven't yet gotten a shot. Some experts worry this might only be the start of what's to come in the next weeks. Michigan is already in the middle of a violent surge, and one epidemiologist says other states should be paying close attention. Michigan is really the bellwether for what it looks like when the B.1.1.7 variant … spreads in the United States," Dr. Celine Gounder told CNN on Sunday. "It's causing a surge in cases and it's causing more severe disease, which means that even younger people, people in their 30s, 40s and 50s are getting very sick and being hospitalized from this." The B.1.1.7 variant, first spotted in the UK, is now the dominant strain of the virus in the US. Experts say it's more contagious, may cause more severe disease and may potentially be more deadly. And it's rapidly spreading across the country. My friend Paul Lee, who owns The Winchester, Royals, Donkey and Hancocks has weathered the pandemic storm better than others. He is insistent on careful virus safety protocols at all 4 restaurants and was one of the first people to successfully set up take out options. During this 2 week period he has taken Governor Whitmer’s request to heart and has closed all indoor dining at his 4 restaurants. All 4 have outside dining alternatives which are carefully sanitized and then rested between customers. He is just one of local restaurant owners who also adhere carefully to all Covid recommendations and I am appreciative of their efforts on our behalf. We are still hesitant about dining outdoors at restaurants, but we will still try takeout from time to time. Here’s what Dr Fauci says about fully vaccinated people: Well, I can’t find the article again, but he said that fully vaccinated people must decide for themselves, but now is not the time to throw away your masks and try to recreate the Before Times lifestyle. �Speaking of cicadas, here’s another event expected in early to mid May. �Parts of the eastern and southern United States are about to witness a remarkable sight: billions of cicadas emerging from underground for the first time since 2004 to swarm outdoor spaces and share their loud collective mating calls. Periodical cicadas, as they're known, spend almost their whole lives a foot or two underground, living on sap from tree roots. Then, in the spring of their 13th or 17th year, mature cicada nymphs burrow out from the ground for a short adult stage, synchronously and in huge numbers. Really huge numbers. The insects climb up the nearest vertical surface, often the tree whose roots sustained them. They shed their exoskeletons and inflate their wings. Then, after a few days resting, recovering and waiting for their shells to harden, the mating begins. The frenzy is impossible to miss once the males start emitting their high-pitched mating song. That happens via sound-producing structures called tymbals on either side of their abdomen. "They may amass … in parks, woods, neighborhoods and can seemingly be everywhere," Michigan State University entomologist Gary Parsons explained in an MSU question and answer session on the phenomenon. "When they are this abundant, they fly, land and crawl everywhere, including occasionally landing on humans." The insects are harmless. They don't sting, bite or carry diseases, and they typically �don't come indoors, though they do gather on outside walls. "The only way they could get inside is accidentally flying in through an open door or window, or because they had landed on a person who then carried them inside unnoticed," Parsons says. Wow! And at that same time we are approaching bat season. In almost 19 years, we have had 2 incidents of bats inside our house. Here’s a myth busting piece about bats. ��After 5 years of discussion and dilly dallying, Brexit became official in Britain and 100 days in, things aren’t going so well. The Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol of the Brexit withdrawal agreement commits the UK and the EU to maintaining an open border in Ireland, so that (in many respects) the de facto frontier is the Irish Sea border between the two islands. Wikipedia. But unrest is beginning in Belfast, the capital of Northern Ireland. Here’s a look at Brexit so far: CNN: It’s been just over 100 days since Brexit began in earnest, and British exporters aren’t happy with how things are going. Trade with Europe has taken a major hit, with exports of goods to the European Union plummeting by more than 41% in January and recovering only modestly after that. The situation is especially dire for food exporters, who have seen exports all but wiped out by new trade restrictions. Now, businesses are asking the UK and the European Union to amend their trade agreement to reduce barriers. Some lawmakers, business leaders and economists have also announced an independent commission to scrutinize Britain's trade deals with Europe and the rest of the world. Well, back to the Caribbean. On his walk Craig saw a hen and chickens �And a goat with a baby goat (kid) �The church �The altar inside the church �The Mayor’s office �While he was exploring, I sat inside this cafe on the waterfront and read my book and drank tea �The beach by the wharf. Our next adventure in Terre-de-Haut tomorrow. Oliver. ��Tomorrow then. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-13_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-398 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-13 Title A name given to the resource Day 398 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a35a4bf58b9a63daf4c1faf3af34398.pdf fd9e5fe24dc061f1bd877d3fa4e02dfb PDF Text Text Day 397. 12 weeks exactly. by windoworks ��This was posted yesterday by my neighbor and although it had a different meaning for her, for me it represented the journey through the pandemic. Kent County’s positivity rate is 15.4% - that is, of all people tested 15.4% are positive. Ideally the positivity rate should be 5% or lower before reopening stores, schools etc. So no good news yet. This is a short post today. I have my 6 month check up for my eyes after the cataract surgery, and it always involves dilating my pupils, and then it takes hours for the dilation to wear off. Yesterday we drove up to Silver Lake. In the summer it is overrun with vacationers, but yesterday it was still quiet with most shops and restaurants closed. Once again, I had made our lunch and we ate it looking at the play of light on the sand dunes across the lake. ��After lunch we drove south a little along the lakeshore and stopped to walk through the dunes to Lake Michigan itself. The lake has been seriously undermining the dunes beneath the houses built close to the shore all up and down the coast and in the next photo you can see some attempts to shore up the house �foundations. On our way home we decided this was our last visit to this far north. Time is beginning to slip by and each day there are more items to be ticked off the list. Also yesterday we booked our airport hotel in Chicago because we will be there over the July 4 weekend and rooms were filling fast. Over the weekend, this happened: Washington Post; More than 100 chief executives and corporate leaders gathered online Saturday to discuss taking new action to combat the controversial state voting bills being considered across the country, including the one recently signed into law in Georgia. Executives from major airlines, retailers and manufacturers — plus at least one NFL owner — talked about potential ways to show they opposed the controversial legislation, including by halting donations to politicians who support the bills and even delaying investments in states that pass the restrictive measures, according to four people who were on the call, including one of the organizers, Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, a Yale management professor. While no final steps were agreed on, the meeting represents an aggressive dialing up of Corporate America’s advocacy against controversial voting measures nationwide, a sign that their opposition to the laws didn’t end with the fight against the measure passed last month in Georgia. �The online call between corporate executives on Saturday “shows they are not intimidated by the flack. They are not going to be cowed,” Sonnenfeld said. “They felt very strongly that these voting restrictions are based on a flawed premise and are dangerous.” Leaders from dozens of companies such as Delta, American, United, Starbucks, Target, LinkedIn, Levi Strauss and Boston Consulting Group, along with Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank, were included on the weekend’s Zoom call. This is a very interesting development. Along with the splintering of the Republicans into the Trump supporters and the rest, there is the unfolding scandal of Senator Matt Gaetz who appears to have indulged in sex trafficking, and the tone of the prosecution in the Derek Chauvin case. Many things seem to be unraveling. Out in the countryside around Grand Rapids there are still some Trump flags - on poles high out of reach in trees. Sad. No Caribbean cruise today, I’ll resume the cruise tomorrow. But here’s Oliver, of course. Threading this cord through the holes is very tricky. �I’m better at glueing stuff. (Look at the wild hair). �See you tomorrow. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-12_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-397 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-12 Title A name given to the resource Day 397 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/621a0e338fa8770158c947ed37cecc37.pdf a472ab7cd4920fae0d50e58300a003b7 PDF Text Text Day 396. by windoworks This could be a doomsday edition of the blog. Its all about the virus. Virus Fatigue is the latest catchphrase. I understand this condition but just because we’re tired and want our lives back, doesn’t mean the virus is gone or even under control. To scare the pants off you, here is a comprehensive list of variants currently raging through the globe and the US. Washington Post 1. The New York variant (B.1.526) Where and when was it discovered? This variant, which was found in samples obtained as early as November, probably emerged in the Washington Heights section of New York, Fauci told reporters in March. By the middle of that month, this variant made up nearly half of the city’s new infections. Where is it? Officials have reported this variant in at least 14 other states, including Texas, Wyoming and Maryland, Bloomberg reported. 2. The South Africa variant (B.1.351) Where and when was it discovered? This mutation, also referred to as 501Y.V2, was found in South Africa in early October and announced in December, when the country’s health minister said the strain seemed to affect young people more than previous strains. This variant may have contributed to a surge of infections and hospitalizations across South Africa. Where is it? This mutation has been identified in at least four dozen countries. On Jan. 28, South Carolina officials announced that this variant had affected two people there with no travel history — the first instances of this strain identified in the United States. It has since been found in more than two dozen other states. 3. U.K. variant (B.1.1.7) Where and when was it discovered? This variant was first found in the United Kingdom, specifically in London and the nearby county of Kent, in September. It is sometimes referred to as the “Kent” variant. It has been spreading rapidly in Britain, Denmark and Ireland since December. Where is it? Dozens of countries, including the United States, have seen infections from this variant of the virus. It is by far the most prevalent variant of concern in the United States, with thousands of cases across the country. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a model forecast in early January that indicated �the variant could become the dominant strain in the United States by some point in March. A recent study showed this variant was spreading rapidly in the United States by early February. 4. The ‘Eeek’ mutation (E484K) Where and when was it discovered? This might best be described as a mutation within a mutation. It’s called E484K — or “Eeek,” as epidemiologists refer to it — and it’s appearing on some of the variants we describe below. It’s not brand new; it has appeared many times since the start of the pandemic, but experts have been concerned about it. It gained mainstream attention when it started to coincide with other variants that are more contagious. Where is it? Eeek has been seen in the variants first discovered in the U.K., South Africa and Brazil. It has also been detected in more than 200 samples of the virus sequenced in the United States since May. 5. The Denmark/California mutation (L452R) Where and when was it discovered? This mutation was detected in Denmark in March. Where is it? A variant with this mutation was found in California this winter and became dominant there over five months, eventually making up more than half of infections in 44 of the state’s 58 counties. This mutation has also been confirmed in several other states. 6. Brazil variant (P. 1) Where and when was it discovered? Sequencing studies found the variant in Brazil, mainly in Rio de Janeiro, as early as July. Researchers in Japan discovered it in travelers from Brazil in January. Where is it? It has been confirmed in more than two dozen countries, including Japan, Spain and New Zealand. On Jan. 25, Minnesota health officials confirmed the first U.S. case of this variant in a resident with recent travel history to Brazil. It has since been found in at least 18 states. 7. The original variant (D614G) Where and when was it discovered? This mutation, known to scientists simply as “G,” was discovered in China in January 2020. It soon spread through New York City and Europe. Where is it? The “G” mutation has become ubiquitous. By July, about 70 percent of the 50,000 genomes of the coronavirus uploaded by researchers worldwide to a shared database carried the variant. �Seven variants of concern. As everyone raced down to Florida or South Carolina or any of the southern states, many of them threw caution to the wind. They didn’t think about being asymptomatic and spreading the virus or a variant and they certainly didn’t consider hospitals being overwhelmed. Before the next concerning piece, here’s an item that will twist your brain; Okay. To rest your brain from that thought, here’s this from my home state, Michigan: The Guardian In Michigan, hospitalisations have soared and intensive care beds are being rapidly filled. An average of 7,226 cases a day were confirmed in the state last week, according to Johns Hopkins University data, �approaching record highs seen in November. Michigan’s public health system “is overwhelmed”, warned the state’s top medical official, Joneigh Khaldun. The surge has prompted Governor Gretchen Whitmer to urge people to restrict activities and wear masks and for schools to halt in-person learning. “A year in, we all know what works and this has to be a team effort,” the Democrat said. “We have to do this together. Lives depend on it.” Public health experts have blamed the rise in cases on on the spread of the highly infectious coronavirus variant B117, first identified in the UK, along with the relaxation of restrictions in the wake of dropping cases and the uptake of vaccines. Of course all Governor Whitmer can do is advise, caution, ask nicely and when that fails plead or beg. This is what happens when a group of Republicans successfully overturn the Governors powers. All she was doing was keeping us safe. I understand business owners going under and closing, but if all restrictions are lifted and most of the population fall ill, including your staff, you won’t be able to keep operating anyway. My favorite gluten free bakery recently closed for 4 days to refurbish their premises. Then they reopened to in house dining with great excitement and fanfare. And a week later they have closed inhouse dining and now operate with take out or outside dining only. Why? To keep themselves and us safe. The owner and his family had the virus late last year and the staff had to keep the curbside pick up going while the family isolated. So, in the meantime, we’re back to Craig as the shopper and we’re not socializing just yet. The exercise bike has gone to a good home and all the houseplants have been relocated. �Three of my African Violets settling in, in their new home. The remaining 3 collage windows have been taken down and stored for packing. The piano is leaving on Wednesday and in a flurry of excitement, we bought a new mattress for our bed, which is traveling to Australia with us. And no, we haven’t been reduced to sitting on deck chairs in the living room - but its coming. Yesterday Craig walked to Reeds Lake and took this gorgeous photo: �Next stop in the Caribbean: Terre-de-Haut. Terre-de-Haut is a commune in the French overseas department of Guadeloupe, including Terre-de-Haut Island and a few other small uninhabited islands of the archipelago (les Roches Percées; Îlet à Cabrit; Grand-Îlet; la Redonde). It is the most populous island of the archipelago of the les Saintes. The Fort Napoléon is located in this commune.Wikipedia �First, Craig explored the island a little bit. �The view from Fort Napoleon. �Exploring the fort ruins ��The view back to the town �Our ship. �A beautiful group of islands. More adventures tomorrow. Oliver. �Planting seeds at daycare. Today’s clothing theme is dinosaurs �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-11_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-396 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-11 Title A name given to the resource Day 396 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/584ddaf016f92aef70dcb247cc910057.pdf 18855e2ea2afe68d0df8e33f1a5bdad5 PDF Text Text Day 395. Saturday April 10. by windoworks These are the daffodils (or jonquils) in Craig’s meadow. I thought this was a cheery way to begin this morning. ClickonDeetroit: MDHHS is currently tracking 991 outbreaks in counties across the state. Between January and March, there were 291 outbreaks associated with youth sports teams. Whitmer called on Michigan high schools to voluntarily return to remote learning for the next two weeks -- past spring break -- to bring down rising cases. She also called on youth sports to voluntarily suspend games and practices for two weeks. “I’m strongly encouraging Michiganders to avoid dining indoors and avoid gathering with friends indoors for two weeks,” Whitmer said. She asked Michiganders to get carryout, eat outdoors and wear masks even during small gatherings. “These are very tough things to do, and we do not make these recommendations lightly. But everyone needs to understand that if we can just pause some of these activities temporarily, it will go a long way to prevent the spread of the virus and save lives.” �Yesterday Michigan had 8,724 new cases. And as Dr Khaldun said: those are the cases we know about. The true number is closer to 3x that - 26,172. What does this all mean? As Eddie Murphy said in the movie “Bowfinger”: keep it together, keep it together, keep it together. In looking back at the last year I realized that I became comfortable with our daily routine, the highlight of which was a daily walk. But 2 weeks after our vaccinations, when we were fully vaccinated, I wanted more. I wanted to toss aside the comfortable, boring routine and get out there and do more!. I wasn’t scared anymore. Now it is so dire out there that I feel as though we are right back in the heart of it again. How could this happen? Who’s to blame? Because I need to blame someone. I’ve done everything I was asked to do and 2 months ago everything looked so hopeful. But unlike other Michiganders, we are leaving. Yesterday my daughter posted a photo of 11 family members, all seated at a long table in a restaurant, eating breakfast together. Not one of them has been vaccinated. They were not wearing masks. They were inside a restaurant. It is such an extraordinary photo. They shop in malls and grocery stores and gather on beaches. They attend indoor events where they do wear masks but they sit next to each other. Everyone (as far as I know) has an App on their phone for contact tracing. They get tested if they even suspect they might have Covid. I hold that image up in front of myself like the proverbial carrot and mutter: keep it together, keep it together, keep it together. The news around the world is mostly negative. President Biden continues to work hard on our behalf. Yesterday a truly dreadful story emerged about the Trump administration altering CDC coronavirus reports to make the virus seem much less of a threat and then celebrating their efforts. I can’t even. Remember I told you yesterday that they had been evacuating people from Bequia and other islands due to the imminent eruption of La Soufriere volcano? Washington Post The 4,049-foot La Soufrière volcano erupted on St. Vincent early Friday, sending a more than two-mile high cloud of ash billowing above the tropical Caribbean island just hours after surrounding communities were ordered to evacuate. Low visibility caused by volcanic debris was hampering the effort to transport residents to safety, officials said. Satellite images and photos shared on social media images captured a thick column rising from the active volcano that began erupting at 8:41 a.m. Plumes of brown ash and smoke drifted higher as they moved northeast, reaching at least 38,500 feet into the atmosphere, nearing the altitude at which many commercial aircraft fly. “The ash column is starting to fall back down around the volcano,” Erouscilla Joseph, director of the Seismic Research Centre at the University of the West Indies, told The Washington Post “It is possible that there will be some property damage. This could go on for days, weeks, or even months.” �So to finish up our day in Grenada. The United States invasion of Grenada began at dawn on 25 October 1983. The U.S. and a coalition of six Caribbean nations invaded the island nation of Grenada, 100 miles (160 km) north of Venezuela. Codenamed Operation Urgent Fury by the U.S. military, it resulted in military occupation within a few days. It was triggered by the strife within the People's Revolutionary Government which resulted in the house arrest and execution of the previous leader and second Prime Minister of Grenada Maurice Bishop, and the establishment of the Revolutionary Military Council with Hudson Austin as Chairman. The invasion resulted in the appointment of an interim government, followed by democratic elections in 1984. The country has remained under the USA's sphere of influence since then. Wikipedia ��This church was damaged during Hurricane Ivan in 2004, and the clock froze at the moment the hurricane hit. �Connecting the east and west side of St George's, Sendall Tunnel runs through volcanic rock and stands out as an engineering milestone for its time. Engineers began constructing the tunnel during the 19th century, in commemoration of the island’s governor, Sir Walter Sendall. The tunnel is approximately 106 m (350 ft) and roughly 2.7 m (9 ft) high. And no, we didn’t go through it. �Walking back to the ship through the rain. �St George at night �The large cruise ship sailing before our ship. Oliver �His �daycare formal photo shoot. Walking through the woods at Kirk Park. And this last photo is for all the family members who loved The Bean in Chicago: �I’ll leave it there, shall I? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-10_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-395 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-10 Title A name given to the resource Day 395 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a46f0b51f006c9b394e9d6564ae251c7.pdf 804fef541632259eb8a8fb42a0baf20b PDF Text Text Day 394 by windoworks As I thought about writing my blog this morning, a newsflash popped up on my iPad. The Guardian: The Duke of Edinburgh, the Queen’s “strength and stay” for 73 years, has died aged 99. Flags on landmark buildings in Britain were being lowered to half-mast as a period of mourning was announced. Years ago I went out a tour of Westminster Abbey. It was a fantastic tour, we got to see many things that the general public doesn’t see. Our guide talked about the preparations already in place for Queen Elizabeth’s funeral. I imagine in the Before Times there would have been a comprehensive plan for Prince Phillip’s funeral too. Our guide told us that it takes weeks to set up the bleachers inside the church etc. I am not sure what the game plan will be for the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral in the midst of a pandemic. Which leads me to the predominant, alarming topic of the day. Yesterday Michigan recorded 8,727 new cases. On April 7, 2020, when we thought the new cases per day were terrifying, we had 1,722 new cases for that day, at the top of the first surge. Of course many Michiganders threw all caution to the wind and have gone to mostly southern states for Spring Break. All the medical personnel in Grand Rapids are very nervous about next week when all those traveling may bring back more of the variants. Which leads me to this: Washington Post: Variants of the coronavirus are increasingly defining the next phase of the pandemic in the United States, taking hold in ever-greater numbers and eliciting pleas for a change in strategy against the outbreak, according to government officials and experts tracking developments. The highly transmissible B.1.1.7 variant that originated in the United Kingdom now accounts for 27 percent of all cases in this country. It is the most common variant in the United States, Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said Wednesday — a development that officials predicted months ago. Two other variants, which took root in South Africa and Brazil and also are more transmissible, are cropping up with increasing frequency in parts of the United States. ’These variants emerged because we continued to give the virus more chance to spread,” said David D. Ho, whose lab at Columbia University is leading the research on the P.1 variant first discovered in Brazil. “The sooner we vaccinate everyone, the faster we will contain the viral spread and reduce the chance for new variants to emerge.” In addition to those three variants, the CDC considers two in California “variants of concern” and is watching them closely. It is also monitoring a variant found in New York City. With most of the rest of the world far behind on immunizations, the virus will continue to spread and mutate, every copy with the potential to spark a variation that current vaccines will not be able to control. �The odds of that remain low, experts think, but they are not zero. “I fear there will be one terrible variant that will come out and take us back to square one,” Ho said. And before you say: but this is the United States, Pamela! Consider this also from Washington Post: Brazil, now fully in the grip of the P.1 variant, shows how quickly it can seize control when not taken seriously. In the Amazon rainforest, it quickly devastated the city that spawned it, then stormed south. It was soon prevalent all over the country — and its assault on Brazil, now in the midst of a nationwide medical failure, has been merciless ever since. Why am I emphasizing this last paragraph? Because of the phrase ‘not taken seriously’. Here, in the US, we are at a point where a swathe of the population are not taking this seriously. I looked up the countries which allow Americans to travel to them. Every single one (except Mexico, I think) stipulates conditions beginning with these words ‘as long as’. The next paragraph contains restrictions and requirements, including insurance cover for the coronavirus. Where does this lead? Firstly, some colleges are requiring all students to be fully vaccinated for the fall semester. Other colleges will soon follow suit. Will nightclubs, movie theaters and live theaters soon require proof of vaccination? Will restaurants and cafes ask for vaccination proof before allowing you and your guests to eat inside unmasked? But, most of all, will airlines require proof of vaccination beginning with international flights and then moving on to domestic flights? How will tourism resume? How will the world function? On Monday I have a follow up appointment with my eye doctor to check my cataract surgery. I really hope all staff are fully vaccinated. And here’s an ongoing discussion from the Washington Post: Soon to appear on your local horizon – if they're not already there – are vaccine passports, showing whether you've been immunized against the virus. New York is the first state to have released one. The website and app, named Excelsior Pass, is a voluntary system to display a person's vaccine status. Our Technology columnist enlisted a few New Yorkers to try it out. He found that the app could be cumbersome to set up, and that it didn't always work. I ‘ll look this up and see if Michigan is working on one - although in a state where a Senate Republican feels comfortable enough to publicly joke (without retraction) that the 3 Executive women (Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney-General) are witches and should be burned at the stake, I’m not confident of support for a vaccine passport. And this is depressing. Washington Post; Every four years, the National Intelligence Council releases a “Global Trends” report, which offers a forecast for the next two decades. The most recent outlook is troubling: It states the �pandemic is "the most significant, singular global disruption" since the Second World War and describes the coronavirus as a preview of crises to come. In its wake, climate change will be another significant and disruptive force, which will propel mass migration, the report notes. I believe our lifestyle has changed and will never return to those halcyon days of the Before Times. The After Times will be different - and we may all live waiting for the next big thing to come along. My neighbors daughter is a music major at a Michigan university. In a truly inventive style, she plays her flute in music class with a hole in her mask for breathing through into her flute, and a bag over the end of the flute to contain her breath but not contain the sound. And thats what we all will do going forward. We will innovate, adjust, invent and circumvent. It might be exciting as well as challenging. �This isn’t a painting. It is the most detailed image of a human cell to date, obtained by radiography, nuclear magnetic resonance and cryoelectron microscopy. How fascinating. And after all that depressing news, here’s something to make you laugh: �As I write this morning, the Great Houseplant Giveaway has been a huge success. I have one flowering African Violet and one stubbornly refusing to flower African Violet left. Most of the plants left the house yesterday when Craig was out running errands. He said he was sad he didn’t get to say goodbye. Hmmm. Oh, and before I continue with out day on Grenada, there is news in from Bequia. From The Times: The government of the Caribbean nation of St Vincent and the Grenadines has ordered a mandatory evacuation of thousands of residents from its main island amid signs of an imminent volcanic eruption. The dome of La Soufrière volcano, on the northern tip of the island of St Vincent, was spewing smoke and �glowing red yesterday after days of seismic activity which the local authorities said merited raising the risk level of an eruption to “red alert”. �I think this is a nutmeg �tree �I think this is a Jackfruit tree. �Cacao tree. The pods grow on the �trunk Mount St Catherine and rain forest �Grande Etaing - a perched lake located high in the mountains. A lot of Grenada’s fresh water comes from this lake. Perched lakes sit upon a layer of humus-impregnated sand or coffee rock formed from accumulating organic matter and sand cementing together into a largely impervious seal. Perched lakes are dependent on rainfall for the maintenance of water levels. �Joining in with the musicians. Me awkwardly attempting the maraca. More Grenada tomorrow. Oliver �Look �at the size of that bowl of food! Today I’ll leave you with this; Its a garden! � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-09_BenjaminPamela_PD-Day-394 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-09 Title A name given to the resource Day 394 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ef1321caac4bf28cd21057abd8dcd24.mp3 cd2659ce484789b01da52d92a14d2a40 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9ec38347251502ed0e385de8ea1af941.pdf 70c011260694fbfa59b7cd46d47ae5b8 PDF Text Text Al Weener interviewed by Ken Kutzel June 2, 2018 KK: And it's on. This is Ken Kutzel, and I am here today with Al Weener at the Old Schoolhouse in Douglas, Michigan. Today is June 2nd, 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. So I'll thank you for talking with me today. AL: I'm glad to be here. KK: I’m interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences od summer in the Saugatuck-Douglas area. Can you please tell me your full name and spell it? AL: Allen, A L L E N, Jay, J A Y. Weener W E E N E R. KK: OK. And you don't use any accents or anything. No. No umlauts. You know, none of that. KK: Tell me about where you grew up. AL: I was I was born in Holland, Michigan, and Saugatuck was the place to go if you wanted to. The first liberal area south of Holland. My Uncle Harry used to come down here deer hunting, which was actually he just came down here to drink. He was a well-known businessman in Holland. His last name was Plugamars. He owned many of, you know, quite a few buildings downtown. AL: But anyway, Saugatuck, when I was finishing high school, I came to Saugatuck and I worked on a fishing trawler with the Peetle brothers on a boat called the Chambers Brothers. Peetles also were fishermen. KK: And that's P E E L right? AL: Yeah, right.Right. Some of them, they're still around. And so that was my introduction. Catching alewives. Which brings back memories to some for sale, I think they went to Japan. Then after high school, there's some cloudiness in my memory, but I was I helped build the stage and put on the pop pop festivals and working for SRC as a temporary job. So that brings, you know, some of that. KK: There was at Pottawattamie Beach, right? AL: Right, yeah. And I was actually backstage during the kerfuffle, which there were. That's another history. Part of, you know, part of Saugatuck. Let's see. What would you like to know? KK: Well, you talk about if you want. AL: Oh, okay. �KK: Talk about that if you... If you want to talk about the... Well, the pop festival, I would have asked you about it anyway. AL: Oh, okay. Well, I was backstage. We helped build the stage. I was just 19 years old. And or 18, I forget. And I was hanging around this, The Frost, which was... I think he was .... And the MC5 were there and B.B. King, not B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Arthur Brown, Alice Cooper. MC5, that sort of scene. You know the bunch. KK: They're all in the poster. AL: Yeah. Mama Lee Thorton never showed, and there was a big rush toward the stage, And I guess I missed all the excitement. I mean, I was in the middle of it, but everything around the edges? Didn't see it a thing. KK: Yeah, they did that two years, right? AL: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. KK: Okay, what are some of the most vivid memories from your childhood. AL: Saugatuck? I had… KK: Well, either, either place. AL: Oh, I don't know. Let's see. Well, my dad always took us swimming in the area. So we're were, I was kind of always around Lake Michigan. In fact, I've pretty much lived within 10 miles of the lakeshore my entire life, so. Lake Michigan beaches. KK: OK, tell me more about your family and your family history. AL: My grandfather, Frank Weener, owned gas stations in Holland at one time and an oil company. And on the north side. And, his house actually was moved from Ottawa Beach. His house on Van Dyke Street, which is now gone, was a root beer stand that they moved from Ottawa Beach. He lived there quite a long time. KK: Oh, really? AL: And my dad, their family home was right where the North Side Russel's is now. So that's where they grew up on River Avenue. KK: Oh, OK. 5:09 KK: Why did you first come to Saugatuck-Douglas? And of course, you mention, you know, a little bit about it. But what made you come here? �AL: Oh, I just thought it was an interesting little fishing town. And then by getting my feet wet, as it were, out in the lake, learning, working with the trawlers for a while, then playing music with with the locals. We had a band way back then with Pete Hungerford and many... Jack Wulkan. Dave Rafinauld on Leo.... these guys are all dead. But I'm not. KK: You're not. AL: Jack is still living in Kalamazoo. KK: Did you guys play in, like, the local bar? AL: Oh, yeah. We played the Sand Bar and the Butler Blue Temple Woodshed Boathouse. Which bar am I missing? That's just about all of them. [Laughs]. KK: Some of them are gone. AL: Yeah. Woodshed's gone and Blue Tempo's gone. KK: Well, you know, as long as you brought it up and, you know, would you tell me what you can about the Blue Tempo? AL: Well, we just were looking for any place to play and we were playing a lot of original music. And Toad was had no problem with that. Som we would set up. KK: And Toad was the owner? AL: Yeah, Toad was the owner. KK: Yeah. AL: Toad Davis. KK: Yeah, Davis. AL: Yeah. And it was a long stairway down and we'd set up. We played there a couple times. It was we didn't get a big crowd but a local crowd. I can remember some fathers weren't real happy that their teenage daughters were at the Blue Tempo. KK: You were. Were you playing more to the straight crowd or the gay crowd or straight? AL: Oh, just the locals. KK: Oh, yeah. Yeah, because. We know that that you know. That was a gay bar. �AL: That was a gay is a gay bar at certain times. The notables played there. You know, great jazz greats played. Yeah. KK: So, who do you know of that that was-? AL: Well, it seems like Dizzy Gillespie played there. I'm not sure. These are all hearsay because I never talked to Toad about it. But, uh, you know that was a it was a fabulous little club. And I hope that you've talked to Bill Steininger, because he could give you more. KK: No, we haven't, but I will write that name down. So, tell the story, because I know you were instrumental in acquiring a sign. AL: Oh, yeah. And it caught on fire. KK: Yes. I want to tell what you know about that. AL: Well, it was a sad day when any institution catches on fire. And I don't remember how. I've just hanging around, drove up and and saw that that roof had sagged and Toad was standing out front. And we're both gonna go. Go. Boy, this is pretty rough. And I can't imagine what he felt like. But the roof had sagged and it was still the fire was out. And I suppose there is yellow tape around it. But I just asked him if I could have the sign and he said, I don't care. or something to that effect. So, I just walked out on the roof and pulled it off with a hammer. KK: OK. AL: Far as I can remember. KK: So, it was up on the roof. AL: Yeah, it was on a roof. Yeah. And the roof had sagged down due to the fire. So it was dangerous. But who cares? KK: But we know you so. Oh, let's see. Can you share any particular memories about, you know, your time here about living here and when, you know, things are moments that are especially memorable to you? AL: Oh, I was thinking of Sally Erlandson, who just passed away, and I believe she was instrumental in having the gazebo built along the water Wicks Park and. And we used to play there. And when it was actually when it was just. Instructed, we had an informal bunch of locals and we we painted it in just to help out. KK: Good! AL: So, Sally was always interested in her and what we were doing. �KK: Can you tell me about your friend Fred? Because I know he was sort of involved in the music world here. AL: Oh, Fred Glazier. KK: Yeah. AL: Oh, and he was. KK: What can you tell me about Fred? AL: Well, he was a freelance writer and he grew up next door to in Chicago area somewhere. Then he was friends with a lot of the oh, man. 10:07 AL: This is this is a brain’s... Mike Bloomfield. So, we did an oral history of Mike Bloomfield. One of his last works. And he'd collect art from. KK: Where was it? AL: I don't know, Chicago very well. But they had the area that everyone was a grand sort of fleamarket. And anyway, he had a lot of art that was on the floors of his his closets kind of in disarray. And before he passed away, I took it and I tried to sort it out and flatten it. And then. So I had a bunch of his art. Anyway, he he was a he wrote for the commercial record as a stringer, I believe, an elegant paper. KK: Didn't he have a little magazine? AL: I think he may have yeah. Yeah. I think all about music in the area. Oh, he may have tried and he tried just about everything I've seen and everything, but working for a living. I don't recommend it at all. Manual labor doesn't suit you. KK: Well, that's true. Oh, were there any places or institutions that you know, are really important to you here in Saugatuck-Douglas? AL: Well, we used to play at Jocko's and Jack Wilkins still being a friend of mine. We'd kind of camp out in the back yard and throw parties there. KK: Where was Jocko's? AL: It is now east of the Dune scooter rides on the rise of the hill. It was a Jocko Wilkin, Jack's father, who owned that. So, yeah, he had a Lake Road Hotel Motel. KK: Were those inside the cabin? �AL: Yeah, those little cabins behind you. KK: Oh, okay, yeah. AL: Yeah. And then the restaurant was in front. KK: Yeah. AL: Yeah, I think they did a quick shot in the Road to Perdition back there. KK: Yeah, that. OK. Any special places you like to eat in the past during that period? AL: Oh, I was somewhat unkind to the local restauranteurs. KK: How so? AL: No I won't go into that. Oh, I mean, The Douglas Dinette was a popular spot. And then The Redwood which is now... Donna Peel passed away. KK: Yeah. AL: The Ways- The Waypoint. That was the Redwood. Yeah. Way back then. Oh, I don't know. Let's see The Elbow Room, which is now The Southerner. KK: Yeah, The Southerner. AL: Yeah. Yeah. I just think you know The Southerner. That was a great spot. And The Butler. My dad always loved to go to The Butler when we're having a family get together. KK: You never had any contact, really, with the School of Art, did you? AL: Oh, yeah. KK: Oh, you did? Tell me about that. AL: Yeah, I worked there. Then my old girlfriend way back was a model out there and. And so I actually have the stove. Well, I did a lot of work out there and I played out there for fundraiser's many times. And actually before I gained my my present stature, I did that. [Laughs Loudly]. AL: She and I both did modeling out there. KK: Yeah. AL: And I met a lot of people on there and let Sally… Oh, they had The Pumphouse for many years. KK: What were their names? �AL: They lived in The Pumphouse. Which is now The Pumphouse. The Pumphouse Museum. Sally. I forgot the last name. And there was a cottage. KK: And it was… AL: Yeah, that's how I got involved out there. KK: Oh, OK. AL: In part. So, let's see. I remembered strip volleyball games and stuff like that where I was wearing a pair of shorts and some women would be festooned in scarves and other extraneous... [Both Laugh] They had they knew the game. KK: Let's see what else we have here. AL: Shorey. Sally Shorey. KK: Sally Shorey. Okay. AL: Because I was living across in Saugatuck and helped remodel The Pumphouse. Way, way back. 15:00 KK: Yeah. And now, you know, you talked about you did work here and you did. What actually do you do for work? AL: Some people say not much, but back then… Well, I was a Mason tender. I was project supervisor, which means that when they were out of town, I would try to direct traffic. So we toured the slate roof off, patched that. KK: That's at the at the Pumphouse. AL: Yeah, The Pumphouse, which I think I gave you a few slates. KK: Yeah. AL: Yeah. Which I, yeah, fortunately still had a couple laying around. What were you asking me? Oh the Pumphouse. Well, what I did for a living? KK: What you did andAL: Yeah. Well I was. I was. Well, I painted a bunch of them for quite a while down here, but then transitioned more into construction. �KK: And you were involved a lot in New Richmond, weren't you? AL: Oh, yeah. I bought The New Richmond Hotel from a friend of mine. He says, "Careful what you wish for." AL: I said, "You know, if I owned it, I would do this and that." AL: And he said, "Well, I'll sell it to you on a land contract." And then so I did remodel that or we did that for quite a few years. And then it caught on fire. Top floor burned out. Fixed that. And then used it as a vacation rental some years successfully, some years less so. And that was the design syrett for the park and raised a little bit of money. And I was on the fundraising committee for the bridge. KK: Why don't you explain exactly what that meant? I mean, what were they doing with the bridge? AL: Oh, at the time Kevin Ricoh was the Parks and Recreation Director for the Allegan County. They, along with the road commission, Bill Nelson was the head of the road commission at the time, were able to secure a federal grant to rebuild the bridge. Subject to not using the caveat was to not have a use for vehicle traffic and to rebuild it being the oldest swing bridge in its act, in its original location. So that bridge is capable of being turned with the crank. I think they spent $800,000 building that. That spans the Kalamazoo Kalamazoo River where New Richmond was, is. KK: New Richmond is, was. Yeah. It was more of a town at one point, wasn't it? AL: Oh, yeah. The train used to stop there five times a day. OK. And from what I understand, it was an Indian trading post prior to that in the 1830s. There are hotels which I had the last, the last structure. A lot of them burned down at the Great Fire, but... The mail used to come to New Richmond. Go by stagecoach to Saugatuck and Holland, sometimes by water, but stagecoach to Holland. And I had relatives living in the East Saugatuck. So, they may have come through Ellis Island and gotten off the train in New Richmond. And, you know, by ox cart or snail... By snail. [Both laugh] By snail or tortoise. Yeah. Sledge lived in East Saugatuck. KK: What... Talk about downtown Saugatuck and or downtown Douglas back, you know, in in like the 70s, 60s, 70s. What do you remember about them? AL: Well, The Over Ice Lumber was still in Douglas as well as there was a hardware store. It was struggling at the time. My girlfriend and I painted The Dutcher Lodge way, way back when it was still a Masonic Hall upstairs. KK: And was it still being used as a hall? AL: Yeah, it was kind of the end of the end of its tenure as a hall .And I remember there were huge bees nests and even more warm weather came that would drip honey through the floor. KK: I've been up there. AL: Yeah? �KK: Yeah, I did. There's still a stage up there. 20:01 AL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's still a stage. I don't know what they've done to it, but I remember working for Virgil Lloyd was one of the one of the old timers who wanted it was part of the lodge. Burin Van Osterberg another. He lived on the other side of the water on the other side of the river. And his wife was Chuck Glummer's sister, she was crazy as a loon. [Chuckles] She was institutionalized. KK: Oh, really? AL: He would take her out of the home, drive around on a regular basis. Her hair was never combed and she never talked at all. Chuck Glummer was was... lived in Ganges, had the tractor repair. KK: Oh. AL: Which is that... Oh, there's the plumber house there. KK: Yeah. Is it across the street from it? AL: Right. KK: Yeah. AL: Yeah. OK. Yeah.Yeah. I've forgotten his wife's name. Chuck was lived in Ganges Township. And they, they had a hedge your business and repaired crackers. I remember going in there and asking, "What can I get for, you know, the tune up my engine for ten bucks?" AL: And the mechanic opened the hood, looked at the engine, closed the hood and said, "That'll be ten dollars." KK: Oh, it sounds like it, you know. AL: Yeah. You stay at the Texaco station where where they would carry a pistol when they're pumping gas. KK: Really? AL: Yeah, the Brown, Browns owned, had that old, Al Brown. Jim Brown. There was Joe Brown. And they were either township or county one with Joe Browns, County cop and, you know, nice. KK: Was it right? Was that the one that was downtown or down near Bluestar- �AL: By Bluestar. Now, it's a real estate. KK: Yeah. Lighthouse, I think, Reality. AL: Yeah. That was a Texaco Station. I know there was one over there. And, Al Brown was there, you know, from the south. But very you know, once you get to know them well, you go in there and play guitar for a couple of minutes at the gas station. I'm no guitar player, but enough to break the ice. KK: Well, and then when you came down here, you spent more time in Saugatuck than in Douglas? Or did it matter? AL: Didn't matter. There were just one little town. KK: Do you have any memory of the Greeson School of Art at the Footy of Center Street? There's a little art school there. AL: Down here? KK: It was just in one building. Yeah. AL: Oh, no. KK: Yeah. I always ask that question because not too many people remember it. AL: No, I remember Oxbow. Yeah. There was no I'm not aware of that one. KK: Did you ever come down? You know, it would be would be up from... Yeah. Down from Holland on the wintertime or what was it something guys in all that all year or was it just mostly summer? AL: Oh well I would come down pretty much any time. Mostly summer jobs. Oh, okay. AL: But when we were painting houses we used to put in as a single ad in The Commercial Record with the phone number. Not even a phone number. I mean, just an address. Post office box. And we were living in New Richmond at the time, so I had a post office box in New Richmond. Somebody would write me a letter, send it via post. I would get a letter from them, send a letter back. You know, this is all is very slow. And then we would quite often get a painting job that way. I didn't paint forever, but it seemed like it. Yeah. KK: So that would be about what time? The 60s? AL: Yeah, and early 70s. KK: Early 70s. �AL: Yeah. KK: So, you were already living out in New Richmond. AL: Yeah. And my girlfriend and I also live right downtown Saugatuck in the old Masonic Hall up above in which is now kind of an atrium building the upper floors. Like upstairs from the- on Butler Street from where Butler Pantry was. Yeah, right. Hey there. I think the Leland building was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did a bunch of work on the Leland building with the first- the initial remodel, my cousin and I tore the north side of the building up and removed the brick and put beams in for windows and also build a back stairway in there. 25:08 AL: Put bay windows on the front, which are now gone. Let's see, yeah, I hadn't thought of that for a while. Yeah. So, what else you got? What what? KK: You know, Iet's talk... AL: Nice list. KK: Well, this is for all kinds of different things, you know, here. This is one for your shenanigans. How would you describe Saugatuck-Douglas, to somebody who had never been here before? AL: When I first came, it was a little fishing town. You can still buy smoked fish in Saugatuck. You can get smoked Chubb's. The Hungerford's had a boathouse on the river, which is no, you know, a glorified cottage. They lived up on the hill. It was a very relaxed little town, very small. KK: OK. And with the summer season was about how long? AL: Three months. Yeah. You can set your watch by it. KK: Yeah. In the summer, where was your favorite place to go? AL: Well, I spent a lot of time on the sandbar or just houses. We played a big party at Tower Marine and that's why I brought up Bill Dillerard, because the tower was still up at that point. And, I remember there is a big house and it had a grand piano in it, and we threw a big party or they threw a big party up there. And that may have may be because they were going to tear down the tower or something like that. You'd have to ask Bill. But that's why Tower Marinas.... KK: Yeah. AL: -has the name. KK: That name. AL: And of course, Tower Marine had a big boat shed and built river queens there. �KK: What was your impression of the law enforcement in Saugatuck? AL: Oh, I remember Lyle Jones. He was a chief of police who was pretty relaxed guy. Not at all what we have today. We did. KK: Right. AL: We were we wrote songs about the locals. So, we do have... There was a song written with Lyle Jones named in it. KK: Oh, really? AL: Yeah. Those are- "Called the Corner" Jack Wilken, I bet has a copy of it. Wow. And Dick Hoffman was the mayor for a while. He was a cool guy. And Greg Hoffman, his brother, always rode a bike and delivered papers. Another local. KK: Do the Hollanders come down here a lot? AL: To drink. KK: Yeah, but did they admit it? AL: Well, if they were, Saugatuck was the first place... Ottawa County was pretty much dry. So, the Saugatuck was some place you could get away. KK: You know, there were the. There was that racetrack here. AL: Oh, yes. KK: At the time. Well, what can you tell me about that? AL: I worked for Al Masters, who owned Holiday Hill. Al and Fran and he and partner put on the jazz festival there. And I worked for them for at least 10 years off and on. And I noticed in his basement he had a bunch on reel-to-reel tapes. And after pestering him for a while, I was able to get those tapes of the Jazz Festival 1961. And I brought him to a friend of mine in Grand Rapids who owned a recording studio. And they were transferred into a digital medium. And they're probably copies in this building somewhere. KK: If I remember correctly, we do have them. AL: I hope so. KK: Mike Sweeney has been very, very involved. AL: So, yeah, I gave them to Mike. �KK: Yeah. AL: And so, I had those transferred and that had Duke Ellington, Dave Brubeck and many other interesting Hollywood or Las Vegas senior stuff. Yeah. Hilarious. Four hours at least. And I remember he lost a lot of money and recorded it had it had A West Michigan sound out of Muskegon recorded for him, and he had no rights to do that. And so that's why they sat in his basement, because RCA or the parent companies who had the recording rights for these artists wouldn't let him release or do anything with the with the sound recording. 30:08 KK: Oh, that's interesting. Do you know, when they hit the rock festivals there. Talk to me or about what was it like with all those people coming into town? As I've heard stories about it. Do you have stories about it? AL: I was backstage the whole time, so. Or right in the in the festival itself. I remember we were... not inebriated, but my memories are somewhat, hazy. [Both chuckle] I was never in town because I was right in the middle of middle of the action. Because I know there are stories about the traffic. KK: And, yeah, them literally shutting the town down because nobody can get in or out. AL: Yeah. I just... Well, being in the middle of it, I didn't need to go anywhere. KK: That's okay. AL: We'd go swimming at Pottawattamie Beach was like 50 cents. They had a big water slide or a diving platform, which you couldn't do anymore. KK: You know, you're involved in playing music. Now, why don't you talk about that? AL: Oh, well, I'm not doing a whole lot, but occasionally I have the… I can play at Marrows in Saugatuck. Hopefully that'll kick in and in June. Otherwise, we had a band called Planet Seven at the time when we were still in our teens and. Yeah, well, that was with local local guys, some of which are not no longer with us. Leo Vischer was the bass player for a little on. Drank himself to death. There was other ones. Chuck Daly was another local. We also had a country band. Tom Edgecomb was another notable, notable guitar player and songwriter. AL: His father was Morgan Edgecomb, which the fireboat is named after, after Morgan. He was an interesting guy who worked on larger vessels and was First Mate for Evel Knievel for a long time. KK: Oh, was he? AL: As well as... You know, He didn't talk about it either. He didn't talk about his clientele because they, you know…. I think Tom said that he worked for the Kennedys. And, you know, and whoever they also Tom is the only guy that I knew my age was. He had been in Cuba with his dad. �KK: That's Tom Edgecomb. AL: Yeah. He passed away 15 years ago. KK: Wait, there was something I wanted to ask you. Tell us about your work with the fish. AL: Oh, you know, the sturgeon. Yeah, we're we have an on again off again nonprofit organization and we partner with we do a little bit to help to assist Fisheries and Wildlife DNR and then the Gun Lake Tribe, the Gun Lake Tribe is now taken up most of the heavy lifting due to budget cuts, governmental budget cuts. But the Kalamazoo River Sturgeon for Tomorrow is is we're trying to keep the sturgeon in Kalamazoo River by using native stock. So there is a small fishing fish hatchery. They called it streamside rearing facility on the north side of New Richmond at the county park. It's a seasonal small trailer funded by Fisheries and Wildlife. Federal money. KK: And so, what do what are they actually do there? AL: They catch native stock in the Kalamazoo River, rear them to a size in a few months sometime. They start with eggs or spawn. And by the time they let them go, they could be five to seven inches long, and then they're able to escape predators. But a small and a juvenile sturgeon is covered with kind of spiny, sharp plates and fins. So, once they get that big, they have a better chance of making it. OK. 35:01 AL: And the largest sturgeon in the last couple decades, caught and released in the Kalamazoo, from the Kalamazoo, was 6'9". KK: Oh. AL: And weighed in in excess of 200lbs. KK: Wow, that's a big fish. AL: A big fish. They've been here forever. KK: Are there more and more of them now? AL: They're still a remnant population in with a little help from or not doing any damage to the habitat, I think they'll be here for a long time. KK: Well, that's good. AL: There's more, more habitat. Habitat enhancement funded by the Gun Lake Tribe and the DNR just below the dam. The Allegan Dam on the Kalamazoo. �KK: What are some of your hopes for the future, for, you know, for the area? What would you like to see happen? AL: Oh, I would like to see the small-town atmosphere. I'm not a Luddite, but I do appreciate good architecture. So, Saugatuck could keep its quaint look by not building a lot of storage facilities to store people's junk, which they should donate to charity and or, you know, just tacky architecture and fast-food joints. KK: That’s interesting. You know. What would you consider some of the nicer buildings? AL: Oh, well. That the old.... let's see... Well, the let's see, the Episcopal Church is a really nice building. Let's see, and some of the buildings downtown that the sandbars, a nice unrestored building for the most part. Killwins, that's a pretty cool building. And some of the buildings along on Butler Street were moved from Singapore. So, and I've worked for some houses in homes, private homes that were moved up the ice from Singapore. So, back when we had real winters. KK: Yeah, I know. AL: Oh, that was real common. KK: I know. AL: Yeah. For months, kids pull them, pull them up with oxen or whatever. KK: Yeah. Yeah. Assuming that somebody 50 years from now is going to be listening to this tape, what do you want to say to him? Or her? AL: To him or her, life is short. Anybody that will be there. Life was short, don't make the same mistakes we did. Make some new ones. Be tolerant. KK: OK. Anything else you want to add? AL: No, just. It's… it's a pleasure that it's nice that we have a historical society. KK: Okay. We will… [Recording ends in middle of sentence]. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-WeenerA_2018-06-02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Weener, Al Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-06-02 Title A name given to the resource Al Weener (audio interview and transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource Al Weener describes his connections to West Michigan as well as his time as a fisherman in Saugatuck Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kutzel, Ken (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Fishing Fishermen Gay bars Allegan County (Mich.) Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3669e2c00b9e62d5f2e5bf4f55fcd550.mp3 4a714357b91d0b257ed2237b543de74f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89d21ff5f41b6cf87fb446a554decd1d.pdf d1b327e4d499648914d89b2f7d5eb3c7 PDF Text Text Cynthia Sorenson interviewed by Gina Asman and Ken Kutzel July 21, 2018 GA: Now what you’re doing is working. Ken: Alright, we're headed down, just hit the record. Okay we'll do that. Thank you very much, Ken. Ken: You’re welcome. GA: As they leave… What do I have in my mouth? I don’t know. So, we'll get started alright.I got some questions here that I supposed to be asking you. This is Gina Asman and I'm here today with Cynthia Sorenson, my friend, and we are downstairs in the Old Schoolhouse in the place where Cynthia is very very comfortable. Today is July 21, 2018. We are in Douglas, Michigan. and this oral history is being collected as a part of The Stories of Summer project which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Herritage program. That’s quite the name. Thank you for coming today and taking the time to talk with me. I know I kinda twisted your arm to do this tonight. This is not your favorite thing I know I'm gonna ask you some different questions I hope because before I think they talked about the, the robbery at the bank was in that. Weren’t you interviewed as far as that was concerned? Well, the second time, yeah. Pat Devenhost and I were interviewed. GA: Okay, but what was the first time about then? CS: My sister and myself. GA: Okay the two of you, so you and Marge were interviewed now. Okay. Well anyway, I wanna learn more about your family history and your experiences that you've had here in the Saugatuck-Douglas area and I have to ask you this can you please tell me your full name and spell it, even though I know how. CS: Cynthia Anne Petertyl Sorensen. GA: Now, that is an interesting name. Spell it for me, please? All of it? �GA: The whole thing, especially the Peter, that’s where I get the Peter. CS: C Y N T H I A A N N E P E T E R T Y L S O R E N S E N GA: I bet Sorenson is often misspelled, isn’t it? CS: Yes. GA: And that's not very nice because it's a good Scandinavian, I think. CS: I think it's Danish. GA: Oh, Danish! Okay I’m sorry I was wrong there. Now, tell me about the Peter, because I’ve heard. CS: Petertyl. GA: I know but I've heard him calling you Peter or Pete. I guess it’s Pete. CS: It’s a nickname. A family name. GA: Tell me about that. CS: Oh, my grandmother my mother's mother's maiden name was Petertyl. GA: Your mother's mother, okay. CS: My grandmother. It’s Bohemian. GA: Oh, its Bohemian? Now, how did Bohemian and Danish get together CS: I don't know. GA: They just did. CS: They met in Chicago, my mother did. They met in Chicago. Now, what else did you need? GA: Well I just think it's such an interesting name and I heard your niece, Joan, say… �CS: No, my cousin. GA: Your cousin, that’s right. She said, “Pete was there” And I said, “Pete? Who’s Pete?” “Oh, you know, Pete.” So, I thought, oh, and that’s why I had to ask you. CS: My family nickname and then of course when I worked in the restaurant with my aunt, she would call me Pete. The customer's would call me Pete. GA: Well, tell me about that restaurant. I know it's called The Hollyhock, right? CS: The Hollyhock House. GA: The Hollyhock House. Tell me about that. CS: My aunt had that for many many years. she it was the best restaurant in town. GA: Your aunt's name was? CS: Emily Leon. GA: Ellie Leon CS: Emily. Emily Leon. GA: And then the building is still there, isn't it? CS: No, Marrows took it over and extended their restaurant. GA: But, it is where Marrows was, correct? CS: Well, Marrows was on the corner. GA: The corner, right. CS: And they took the property in between the lot and my aunt’s house. GA: Oh. CS: So, there’s actually three lots there. GA: See, I was incorrect because I thought that the back part of the side part that runs along the road there was The Hollyhock House. �CS: It was facing Water Street. GA: Water Street, yes. Because it kind of bends in there, doesn’t it? CS: Yeah. GA: How long did you work there? CS: I started when I was fourteen. GA: Oh my word. CS: Helping in the kitchen. I worked there for twenty years. GA: So all through high school and so on, then. CS: Yes. GA: And I’m sure that probably during the summertime you were really, really busy, weren’t you? CS: Very busy. There would be lines of people waiting to get in. GA: Well, I can remember hearing about it. I don’t ever remember eating at it but I can remember hearing people talk about it, that it was a very good place to eat, and it was very… What should I say? A neat place to go, a different place to go, not your typical hamburger or whatever. CS: It was all homemade food, homemade cooking. 5:08 GA: What was your favorite? CS: Well, probably her vegetable soup. [Chuckles] GA: Her vegetable soup. Did they have other kinds of soup? CS: Oh, yeah. She made it all. GA: Was there different soup on different days? �CS: She made all sorts of kinds of soups. I don’t remember if it was one a day or how she did it, but all of her soups were good. GA: But vegetable soup was your favorite? CS: Yeah. GA: What did they have for dessert? I love dessert. CS: Pies. All sorts of pies: Lemon meringue, butterscotch, and chocolate, coconut cream… GA: So, a lot of cream pies, then? CS: Oh, yeah. GA: And why did she call it The Hollyhock House? CS: She liked hollyhocks, and there were hollyhocks in the vacant lot next door. GA: Ah… and these were probably the old-fashioned ones, the singles. CS: Yeah. GA: Did you ever take them apart as a little girl? CS: Oh, yeah. GA: Make dolls? CS: Make dolls, yes. GA: I did that too. So, vegetable soup, lots of pies. CS: Lemon meringue. GA: Lemon meringue, was your favorite lemon meringue? CS: Yep. And she made a lot of sweet rolls. Her cinnamon rolls were the best. Everyone liked her cinnamon rolls. GA: So, she was probably open for breakfast then? CS: Oh, yeah. �GA: What time did you have to go to work? CS: I can’t… let’s see. I think she opened at 8:00. She started out serving dinners and decided it was easier to do breakfast because there wasn’t a lot of waste. Eggs just kept, you know. Then, she decided that breakfast was too hard because everyone wants it to be perfect. People like their eggs a certain way. GA: Scrambled, over-easy. CS: Yeah. GA: Oh, this is too hard! CS: So, she went back to dinners. GA: Oh, really? CS: And, that’s when there were line ups because the pavilion was there then. GA: Right across the street, really. CS: Mhm. And, she went back to breakfast and lunch. So, I was a waitress. I didn’t do any of the cooking. GA: Well, that’s more fun. You didn’t have to clean up, either, doing dishes? CS: No, I didn’t have to do the dishes. There were high school girls that came in and did the dishes. GA: What was the décor like inside? When you remember, what did it look like? I imagine it being sort of light, bright colors and so on? CS: Yeah. She used a lot of yellow. GA: A lot of yellow, okay. CS: Just all kind of. It was kind of open. There was a porch, a glassed in porch. The windows could be open. It was very cheerful. GA: And I assume there were tables out on the porch? Were you serving? �CS: Yeah, we served tables on the porch. In the regular restaurant, she had vases of flowers on every table. GA: Fresh flowers, I’m sure. CS: Yeah. She had a big flower garden in the back because she liked to garden. GA: So, these flowers probably came right from her garden. Yeah. GA: Neat. CS: I don’t remember… Well, I was there when the pavilion burned. GA: You remember that, then? CS: We were open. GA: Because that was early May, wasn’t it? CS: May, yes May of 19…60? GA: May 1960, yes. So you were working that day, then? CS: Yeah. It happened right around noon hour. GA: So, it was right across the street from you. CS: Yeah. GA: Oh, my word. CS: You hear the fire whistle. They had a fire whistle at that time. Everyone was running down between the pavilion and The Crowbar because there was smoke down there. And I said, “Oh, there’s a boat on fire.” I looked across the street, and there were flames inside the building way over in the far corner. And, we were full of customers, of course. I said, “Everybody better leave.” Nobody wanted to leave, they all finished their lunches, paid... GA: Oh, you’re kidding! Just kind of watched everything? CS: Yeah. �GA: Oh my word. CS: Firetrucks were pulling out of the front. GA: Well, they had the front row seats. CS: Yeah. My sister worked at Harris Pie, in the office of Harris Pie then. She and a couple of her friends came for lunch and they were waiting for a table. And they took their lunch with them back to the office. 10:10 GA: To go, yeah. CS: Finally, we got everybody out of the restaurant, and I happened to think to grab the cash box. We had a cash register, but I thought to grab the drawer and went into the backyard. My aunt had a dog at the house, so I let him out. Then, I just stood in the back and watched it burn. GA: Holding the cashbox and keeping the dog company then? CS: Yes. GA: Oh my word. CS: And while, just before we left, this lady from Douglas, Mace Acosta, came. She wanted pie and coffee. And I said, “Well, you can’t come in, we’re closed.” But she insisted, so I gave her a pie to take home. GA: Oh my word! CS: She wasn’t going to leave. GA: And she just wanted to come on in, eat her pie and watch the excitement going on across the street? CS: Yes, yep. So that’s… My cousin Frank was at Michigan State then, and some of his friends called and told him what was going on. They came and got his record collection out of the house. GA: Sure, because he was living at that house then. CS: Yes. �GA: The house didn’t burn, did it? CS: No, but the plane glass window on the front cracked. GA: On the house? CS: On the restaurant. GA: Oh, the restaurant. CS: Yeah. A couple of the firemen were keeping hoses on the roof of the house, so it didn’t burn. She also had candles, candles on all of the tables. They melted right over because it got so hot in there. GA: Oh my word. And it was probably pretty cool out because it was early in May? CS: Yeah. GA: So, it wasn’t 80 degrees or anything. CS: It was a sunny day, I remember, but… Later after the fire was out, then she opened up and made sandwiches for the firemen, or whatever they wanted to eat. A friend of hers came and helped her. GA: Now, you probably helped too, didn’t you? Or did you have to go and do something else? CS: I was there, but I don’t remember doing – GA: Well, you probably helped serve them to the firemen. CS: Yeah. I don’t remember doing that, but I must have. Of course, I had to hang out with the dog. [Both laugh] GA: And you made sure the money was safe, too. CS: Yeah. My parents were living in Lansing. GA: At that time? CS: They were coming over for the weekend and they saw all this smoke in the sky. GA: They were probably… �CS: They couldn’t get into town. They weren’t letting anyone into town. GA: Were you living at that time on Campbell Road? CS: Yeah. GA: But your folks were in Lansing, so it was just you and Marge in the house, then? CS: M-hm. GA: I didn’t know that! I thought your folks lived there all the time! CS: No. My dad worked for the State of Michigan, and he worked out of Lansing. GA: Oh. CS: They’d come over every weekend. GA: So, you two girls were just on your own then? CS: M-hm. GA: Oh, well, times are… CS: We were old enough then. GA: I know, but times are different now. [Laughs] Would you leave your teenagers there, my word! CS: Well, Marge wasn’t a teenager, so. She worked at Harris Pie, and I did the restaurant. GA: Well, now, I know that your house is really, really old. Talk about your house. You said you lived in that house after you had lived in another house downtown in Saugatuck first. CS: M-hm. GA: But this house had already been built on Campbell Road? CS: Oh, yeah. GA: But, it’s not a farmhouse. It’s too fancy to be a farmhouse. CS: Oh, it isn’t fancy. �GA: Oh, I think it is. CS: It was a farmhouse. GA: Well, it’s not a typical, plain old, what should I say, bare boned. Well, the inside wasn’t like a lot of those houses, Victorian houses. CS: It was plain. GA: But the outside is very, very elegant, as such. It was on a hill; it looks really nice there. CS: According to Jim Schmeecan, it was built in 1867 or 8, I can’t remember. GA: So it’s… my math… It’s 150 years old. CS: Yeah. It was the only house on that side of Campbell Road when we moved there. 15:03 GA: Oh, really? The only one? Was there ever a barn in there, too? CS: Oh, yeah, there was a big barn, food storage building, and a chicken coop. GA: And a chicken coop! And, you didn’t raise chickens for food? CS: Nope. GA: But there were probably already fruit trees there. CS: Oh, yeah, the whole area was a fruit orchard. GA: Peaches? CS: All kinds of fruit. Different kinds. GA: Hmm. CS: But at that time, we weren’t running the orchard at all. It was just there. GA: It was just there. CS: Yeah. It wasn’t taken care of; it wasn’t sprayed or anything like that. �GA: How old were you when you moved into that house, do you remember? Were you in high school? CS: Yeah, I was in high school. GA: You came from Chicago? CS: Yeah. Brookfield. GA: Brookfield, that’s where the zoo is. So, you came up here because your dad had a job in Saugatuck, right? CS: No. He quit his job in Chicago because he was tired of commuting through the loop. And, what he wanted to do was build. He was a builder. GA: That’s right. CS: He wanted to build houses up here. We moved here after my sister graduated from Riverside Brookfield High School, because she was going to go to Western. My dad liked to hunt and fish so he wanted to be in this area. GA: So, this was a perfect place for him! CS: M-hm. We were here… Well, we came here in October of 41. In December, there was Pearl Harbor. GA: That’s right. CS: So, the company he worked for in Chicago wanted him to come back, because they had a job out in Nebraska building ammunition storage in the fields of Nebraska. So we went out to Nebraska for, oh, almost a year. GA: Where abouts in Nebraska? CS: Sydney, Nebraska. GA: I don’t know where that is. CS: It was just a little town like Fennville. �GA: I’ve never been. Oh, like Fennville, okay! Is it in the middle of Nebraska, or where in Nebraska? CS: It’s more in the southwestern parts. GA: The southwestern parts, okay. CS: Because I know we took trips to Colorado and Wyoming while we were there. GA: Oh! So, you were there a little while then? CS: Yes. Not a full year, but. GA: Not a full year, okay. CS: Then we came back here. GA: But at that time, you did not have the house on Campbell Road, correct? CS: No. GA: Okay, so you lived in town. CS: Yeah. We lived on… first we lived on Lake Street. That house isn’t there anymore. And, then, we lived up on Mason Street. GA: Okay. CS: Then my dad built the house on Hoffman Street. GA: Oh! And is that house still there? CS: Yes, yep. GA: Do you know the address or anything? CS: I don’t know. I can’t remember enough. GA: But you’d know what it looks like, right? CS: Oh, yeah. They’ve changed it. GA: Oh, okay. �CS: That was in the 40s, then, by the late 40s. Yeah. I was in high school, so I could just walk to school, the old school. GA: The old school. Because I can remember the Saugatuck High School burned in the middle of the night, didn’t it? CS: Yeah, there was a thunder storm and they think it was struck by lightning. That was 1950.I can remember my dad was good friends with Mr. Wah. GA: Was he the superintendent? CS: Yeah. I remember where we lived, and I remember the phone ringing in the middle of the night, and my dad saying, “Oh, we’ve got to go, Saugatuck High School is burning down.” And, they were talking about where they could hold classes and so on. Could we loan them books, or just whatever? Because my dad was in Fennville at that time. So that was in 1950. GA: Yeah. See, I didn’t remember when it was. I remember that the high school was on a hill. CS: You weren’t born then. GA: Oh, well, yes I was. [Both laugh]. The high school was up on a hill, but the gym didn’t burn, did it? CS: No. It was attached to the high school building, but it didn’t burn. GA: So, only part. CS: There was no damage upstairs. Let’s see, there were four classrooms attached to the old school, red brick, and the gym was to the other side. It wasn’t near the building that burned. GA: Okay, so it was separate, then, kind of. CS: Yeah. GA: Oh, I see. See, I don’t remember that. [Clears throat]. Excuse me. I remember going to games in the gym and knowing that was not a part of the school that burned then. CS: No, it didn’t. I don’t even think there was smoke damage in there, but there was in the red brick part of the school. And, we had to have classes in the Legion Hall now in town. �20:07 GA: Probably churches or something? CS: Churches. Let’s see, where else? Well, that’s about all there was. Then the fixed up the gym and divided it into classrooms. GA: Classrooms. CS: So yeah, we did. We had classes in there. GA: Because when you graduated, I think Saugatuck was much smaller than Fennville. CS: M-hm. GA: How many were in your graduating class? CS: Ten. GA: Oh, my word! [Laughs] Now there’s probably, what, 70 or 80? CS: Oh, yeah. GA: Over 100 maybe. CS: Yeah. GA: See, I don’t know. CS: Yeah. GA: Wow. Because I can remember the building being up there, and I haven’t been… Aren’t there apartments over there now? CS: Yes, condos. GA: Condos. They just took down the school, or what? CS: Well, they took down the old school and built a one-story school. GA: I remember that too. CS: Right in that spot. �GA: Oh, really? CS: I think they took down the red brick part too. The gym was left. Then they built the onestory, but it wasn’t very well constructed. It didn’t last. GA: I guess not. CS: So, then they built where it is now. GA: Where it is now. CS: Yeah. GA: Because that’s state of the art now, as far as. My brother and sister-in-law came over and moved here from the Detroit area, and they were like, “Wow!” They couldn’t believe what a wonderful athletic facility they have. They said, “My word, this is better than anything we’ve seen in a long time.” They were really impressed. Okay, when you were in high school, they were still called the Saugatuck Indians? CS: Oh, yeah. Still are. GA: Is there going to be any change to that? CS: They’re not. GA: I hope not too, because it just… CS: We had a big meeting, oh, two or three years ago, and someone wanted to change the name, drop the name. GA: But with the name Saugatuck, that’s an Indian name. CS: An Indian name. GA: You know what it means, don’t you? CS: Bend of the river, I think. GA: I think. CS: It has different meanings, but mouth of the river, bend of the river. �GA: Saugatuck, it’s a neat, neat place. It certainly has been well-known for years and years and years. So, you lived here, too, then, when they had the jazz festivals? CS: Yeah. GA: What do you remember of that? CS: I didn’t go to those. I wasn’t interested in that. GA: From what I’ve heard, the jazz festivals were supposed to be out where the racetrack is. Yes. GA: But, people, the college kids and such, the troublemakers or whatever didn’t go to that. They just congregated in downtown. CS: Came in downtown. GA: Because they wanted to CS: Drink. GA: Drink and riot and just have a good time. CS: Yeah. GA: See, you lived then. Well, actually your address in Saugatuck was on the other side of the river, so you didn’t have to be involved in that. CS: Right. M-hm. Stayed out of town. GA: I don’t blame you. I remember seeing pictures of this just jammed with people in front of the Old Crow and such, and Coral Gables. CS: I remember, in the daytime working in the restaurant, there were always a lot of people around. GA: That would have been about the same time, then, that the pavilion burned. Was that when they had them, or was that later? CS: That was later. �GA: It was later, okay. CS: The pavilion was gone then. That was just a parking lot, I think. GA: So, there was a parking lot across from The Hollyhock. M-hm. Down on the river. GA: On the river. CS: I think that property was sold to the Singapore Yacht Club. They had the parking lot. GA: Oh, okay. CS: They had their boats docked on the water there. One more thing, going back to the fire. We were wondering what to do about classes and things. And there was talk. [Coughs] Excuse me. GA: We need a bottle of water, but we don’t have any. CS: I don’t need a water. There was talk of merging with Fennville. GA: Really? Such rivalry. CS: We did not want it. GA: I’m sure Fennville didn’t want it either. CS: We had a demonstration march. GA: Oh, really? CS: [Chuckles] I shouldn’t be telling you that. GA: Well, I went to Fennville as you know, and we would have felt the same way. We don’t want to join with those Saugatuck Indians! They are our rivals. CS: That’s when they decided to rebuild. GA: That was in the – I don’t remember that at all. CS: I don’t know if we have any pictures of it? We must have pictures… GA: So, there was a demonstration? �CS: Oh, yeah. Saying, “No, no, no, no!” And, so, they listened. 25:04 CS: Then there was another… All these people were coming to the restaurant. There was a group that came it. It was one of the musical groups at that time. I can’t remember the name, but somebody said that’s who they are. They autographed a paper napkin and left it on the table. So, I picked it up and kept it. I still have it. GA: You’ll find it some place and go, “Oh, that’s where it is!” CS: I can’t remember the name of the group. There were four or five fellows that were in it. GA: Were they singers? CS: Singers, instruments and singing. GA: Ah. CS: I’ll find it and give it to the archives. GA: Yeah! You should because that would be special. So, did you have different napkins that said Hollyhock House on them? CS: No, just plain white. GA: Plain white napkins, okay. But somebody autographed it, like The Beach Boys or something. A well-known group. CS: Yes, they were well-known at the time. I don’t know if anyone would remember them now. GA: Oh, I’m sure oldies like the two of us would remember. Now, do you remember what they ordered? You waited on them, right? CS: Yeah. It was breakfast. I don’t remember what they had. But I thought, I’m going to save that. I don’t know why, but… GA: I’m glad you did! And you’ll find it, it’ll turn up, and you’ll say, “Hey, there it is.” You probably have it in a book or something to keep itCS: In a box that I’m saving. [Both laugh] �GA: Did you have other celebrities that came to eat at The Hollyhock House? CS: I don’t remember. I was trying to remember if Burt Tilstrom came in [Indistinguishable] GA: Yes. CS: I remember when he passed by out on the street. GA: On the street. CS: And the dragon was hanging out the window. [Both laugh] Someone he knew was eating at the restaurant. So he stuck the dragon out the window. GA: That’s neat. CS: Ollie. GA: I remember watching that on TV. Cuckoo Friend and Ollie. What year was that, I can’t remember? CS: Must have been in the 50s. GA: Early 60s. CS: Yeah, 50s. GA: Okay, do you remember seeing that dragon sticking out of the window, was the pavilion in the background, or had it burned down by then? CS: I think that it burned. GA: It burned. So it had to be after 1960 of May. CS: Yeah, I’m not quite sure. GA: You said you worked there for about 20 years, then. CS: Yeah. GA: Wow. CS: Yeah, I started working there in… Let me see. I think it would have been 1965. So, maybe it wasn’t 20 years. �GA: Maybe you subbed in somewhere or helped out sometimes, too. I remember because I had a friend, Bob Breckenridge, who worked in the bank. CS: Yeah. GA: And I would mock him and say, “Yeah, you don’t even have a job. You’re finished with work at 3:00 in the afternoon. That’s no job.” CS: The bank used to close at 3. GA: I remember that, yeah. But, you start work at what time? CS: 9:00. GA: 9:00. But you didn’t leave at 3:00. CS: Oh, no, no. We were there. GA: Because you had to make sure everything was … CS: Yeah. And, let’s see what else. Well, I was offered the job at the bank. I didn’t apply for it. GA: Oh, that’s a compliment! So they came to you and said, “Cynthia.” CS: I was taking a refresher course in typing up at the high school, an evening class. Mrs. Showers, do you remember Louise Showers? GA: I remember the name, but. CS: Yeah, she was there, too, because she was starting to work at the bank. She had to learn how to type. [Chuckles] And she told the bank manager. GA: Who was? CS: Mill Stahl. GA: Okay. CS: And she said he should ask me to work there because I was such a good typist. GA: Ah. �CS: So, I came into the bank and he asked me if I’d like to work there. It was just part time, because I had to work at the restaurant in the morning. I could work at the bank in the afternoon. Well, that lasted a week, and then he wants me full time. And Irene Simonson. GA: Okay. CS: She was a customer of my aunt’s who came every day for coffee. She said she’d like to have a job working the restaurant. GA: Oh really? CS: She just jumped at the chance. GA: So, she filled in for you and you went to the bank, then. CS: Yeah. 30:00 GA: Okay, may I ask you a personal question? When you worked at The Hollyhock House, how much did you get paid an hour? Not with tips. CS: I came across some pay stubs the other day throwing stuff out, and it seems like it was about a quarter. GA: Oh, that’s good. Oh, I think so. When I worked at The Redwood, I got 50 cents an hour, and that was in the early 60s. Oh, so, my word, I didn’t know that! CS: But, we made good tips there. GA: Oh, I’m sure you would have, yes. CS: Yeah. GA: Well, that was very profitable. CS: Yeah. When you stop to think about it, it was good at that time. GA: And when you worked at the bank, you had given up your job to Irene SimonCS: Irene Simonson, yes. Her husband was the photographer. �GA: Yes. I’ve heard that name. CS: Carl. Carl Simonson. GA: I would never recognize her if I saw her, but I’ve heard the name. CS: Well, you probably knew her son, Bruce. He was village maintenance, head of village maintenance for 50 years. GA: I just nominated Tanya, but that’s it. Your cousin, Frank Lamb, I know. CS: Yeah. GA: Because he was on the basketball team. CS: Yeah. GA: I’ve probably told you, but we used to call him The Nicotine Five. Isn’t that terrible? Because it was Frank Lamb, name me some of the other guys. Lovejoy. Frank Lovejoy. CS: Yeah. Ralph Brickles. GA: Ralph Brickles. Bob Breckenridge. CS: I don’t know. But Bob was younger… Rick Francis. GA: Rick Francis, yes! I thought it was Rex, but Rex went to Fennville then. CS: Yeah. He went to Fennville. GA: He… [gasp] He changed sides. CS: Well, he had to. GA: Yeah, I think there was a little problem there. CS: He and the coach, who was the school principal at the timeGA: Oh, really? CS: Had a disturbance… GA: There was an altercation. �CS: Let’s see. Frank and Ralph, Oh, Bill Hedgeland, I think. GA: That’s right. CS: He was one of them. GA: Will Hedgeland, yes, he was one of them. Oh, that’s right. Because you had a good team. CS: Oh, yeah. GA: They were very good and I know it was always the-. When you played Saugatuck, when Fennville played, that was the game. CS: M-hm. GA: And we played each other twice. Once in Saugatuck, once in Fennville. And those were the biggest turnouts. They were the most exciting. CS: Yeah, still are. GA: The rivalry. I don’t know, when did the rivalry start? CS: Probably from the very beginning. GA: From the beginning, yeah. The Blackhawks and the Indians. The Indians were really, really tough. I remember being in that gym, and it would be so crowded. I know one time my dad was sitting up at the top, and there were guys with snare drums up above him, and a snare drum fell off and hit him right in the head. CS: Oh, gosh. GA: Isn’t that a weird thing to remember? But, it was very crowded in there, very tight. As I recall, the bleachers seemed like they were right on the floor. There was not much room at all. CS: Yeah, it wasn’t very big. GA: But, it was filled with lots of excited spectators. Wow. Now, going back to, I keep thinking about The Hollyhock. How long, then, did your aunt have that? When did she close it? CS: She closed it in 1970, I believe. GA: So, ten years after the pavilion burned. �CS: Yeah, she wasn’t well, so she had to give it up. GA: And nobody took it over? CS: Oh yeah. I can’t remember their last name, but it probably was Sullivan or something. This couple took it over and kept the name. GA: They kept the name The Hollyhock. CS: They were, they just didn’t have as good of a restaurant. GA: I’m sure all the clientele figured that out early on. CS: Yeah. I think they sold to Marrows. GA: Oh, okay. CS: Then Marrows was built in the vacant lot next door to build over the house. GA: Because Marrows has been there quite a while. CS: Oh, yeah. GA: Probably since, what, the mid 70s, then? CS: Probably. I can’t remember the years now. I know there was a couple from Indiana that had the Marrows restaurant for a year. They would come up every summer and open up. They were jealous of my aunt’s restaurant because their food wasn’t that good. [Laughs] GA: And she always liked to cook? CS: Oh, yeah. GA: But she’d never been a restauranter like this before? An entrepreneur or anything? 35:04 CS: Well, when she first came to Saugatuck, she worked at The Green Parrot, I think was the restaurant’s name, so she worked there. GA: So, she said, “I can do this even better on my own.” CS: Well, she didn’t start right away. My father and John Ball had a restaurant on Mason Street. �GA: Oh, really, your dad? CS: Yes, they just had hamburgers and chili. GA: Oh, okay. CS: And my aunt worked there as a waitress. GA: Frank’s mom? CS: Yeah. My mother did the dishes and Mrs. Ball made the pies. GA: Oh, really? CS: And from there, the Balls opened their own restaurant on Butler Street. John Ball Restaurant. I don’t remember… GA: Now is that relation to the John Ball of Grand Rapids? John Ball Park? CS: No, no. GA: No relation whatsoever. CS: And then my aunt opened her… opened Hollyhock House, because my dad went back to building. He’d rather be building than be in a restaurant. GA: That was much more his style. CS: So, my aunt opened Hollyhock House and the Balls opened their restaurant. GA: So, really, there were quite a few restaurants in Saugatuck. CS: Oh, yeah. GA: I remember the Hollyhock, and I remember you used to go downstairs and it was called…. So, it would be in the south end where… What is it called? The Old Crow in the south end? You would go downstairs and there was something called the… CS: The Ratskeller. GA: The Ratskeller, that’s right. I can remember that, and I can remember upstairs. CS: That was, uh, El Forno. �GA: El Forno. CS: And next to that was the Old Crow Bar. GA: The Old Crow Bar, okay. The Ratskeller, that’s right, it was downstairs. What do they call it… The Soda Lounge next to the drugstore? CS: That was on Butler Street. GA: Oh, that was on Butler Street, okay. CS: It was kind of at the back of The Hollyhock House, facing the other side of the street. GA: Ah, because I remember all of the Saugatuck kids going. They called it the Scrounge. CS: Oh. GA: What was it called? CS: The Soda Lounge. GA: They’d call it the Scrounge. I don’t ever remember being in it, but I remember them talking about it. CS: It had been there a long time. GA: Well, go ahead. CS: They used to, they’d go on up after the ball games. The kids could come in. GA: Oh, okay. CS: I don’t know that they were open every evening, but after aGA: After a ball game of some sort. Basketball, football, something like that. CS: Yeah. GA: Oh, no, because Saugatuck didn’t have football. CS: No. GA: That’s right, so they had… Did they have a baseball team? �CS: I don’t know, I don’t think so. GA: So, just basketball. CS: Just basketball. GA: So, no tennis or… CS: Nope. GA: Oh, my word. Then, that’s why the guys were so good. They didn’t have to practice anything else. [Both chuckle] CS: Then, The Soda Lounge moved across the street. It closed up when they were across the street next to the bank, because it was the bank on the corner. GA: Which is now The Garden, right? CS: Yeah. It was just a small… This was after Mike Kenny died. His wife and her sister had The Soda Lounge and it was just a smaller place. They ran that for a while. GA: Had the drugstore always had the soda bar in the back, there, too? CS: Yeah. Well, when we first came, it was right in the front part, The Soda Lounge. I mean, the drugstore. GA: The drugstore. CS: Over on the north wall. They had The Soda Lounge, a soda bar there. When Christianson took it over, he added on the back of the building and had it back there. GA: Is it still there? CS: Oh, yeah. GA: I remember, every summer… CS: They don’t serve all year round. It’s in the summertime. GA: Okay. Because it was always the neatest thing to come to Saugatuck. It was always kind of, “This is enemy territory.” Isn’t that terrible? �CS: It was a bad town. GA: No, it wasn’t a bad town, it was enemy territory. Oh, let’s go to Saugatuck. I can still remember that. Did you ever go to Whatnot Inn? CS: Yeah. GA: That was, when I think of it, thinking of it now, we used to go there as kids, but it was a bar then! CS: Probably, yeah. 40:00 GA: I guess, I would never allow my kids to go to a bar by themselves, but we did. Maybe our folks didn’t know. I don’t know. CS: Maybe they knew the people that were running it and it would be… GA: That’s right. CS: I don’t remember. GA: Deanne DeAngelo. CS: Deanne. GA: DeAngelos, that’s right! Sure, she was. I remember, she was a very pretty girl. Deanne DeAngelo. CS: M-hm. GA: That’s right. Well, then, I’m sure it was okay with the DeAngelos. CS: Yeah. GA: Even if it was a bar. Huh. CS: It was a family-run place. I was trying to remember when the bank was on the corner. GA: M-hm. I can remember the bank being on the corner. That’s where the rose garden is now. �CS: I think it was being remodeled or something. They had to move the money. Every night, they had to move the money out of the vault over to the drugstore. GA: Really? CS: They kept it over there. GA: Oh, my word. CS: Then they brought it back in the morning. I think they must have been remodeling at that time. I wasn’t working there then, so I can’t remember, but that was so funny that… GA: They’d take the money from the bank. CS: In the afternoon they’d take the money to the drug store in a wheelbarrow. [Both laugh]. GA: And I’m sure everybody knew what was happening. CS: Oh, yeah. There was one, two policemen in town. GA: So, they would escort it over there? CS: Yeah. GA: Oh, that’s neat! CS: And they brought it back in the morning. GA: With a police escort? CS: Yeah. GA: Now, I remember the bank being a red brick, sort of a flat building. Was it always that way? CS: It is now. It was a two-story yellow brick building on the corner. GA: Maybe I’m just remembering what it is now, because now it’s back farther than what it was. CS: M-hm. GA: Because before it was… CS: Where the rose garden is. �GA: Oh. But it was a two-story. I guess I don’t… CS: Yes, it was a two-story. There was a dentist up above, an attorney, and some lady. GA: I didn’t know that. What was it called? Not The Chemical Bank. CS: No. GA: It was called what? CS: Fruit Growers. GA: That’s right, Fruit Growers Bank. CS: Then, we merged with South Haven’s Citizens’ Trusted Savings, and it became Citizens’ Trusted Savings. And then they decided to build a new building, the red brick bank. GA: So, that was probably, what? In the 80s or 90s? I don’t know. CS: 1971. GA: Oh, 70s! CS: In 1971, they moved into the new brick building. GA: So, you remember the move, then, very vividly? CS: Oh, yeah. We had to help carry all of the stuff over to the new bank. GA: So, you were working at the bank when they were remodeling and would take it across, or was that before? CS: That was before. GA: That was before. They must have had a huge safe, then, to hold all of the money from the bank. CS: I don’t know what they, how they did it. GA: I hope they didn’t just put it on a shelf someplace. [Laughs] CS: Unless, well, there was a big vault in the bank. Maybe they could keep most of it… Well, they had to have safe deposit boxes in there. �GA: Yeah, they would take a couple… You can’t have more than ten of those. CS: And then the daily money they took over to the drug store. GA: Wow! CS: The old old bank had a corner… [Indistinguishable] GA: Oh, on the outside of it? CS: Yeah. That’s what they took down and remodeled. GA: When they were remodeling, yeah, okay. Hmmm. When was it built originally, do you know? CS: I don’t remember. GA: But, a long, long time ago. But, yellow brick? CS: M-hm. GA: Interesting. Did it take up that whole space? It was really quite large. CS: Yeah. GA: Much larger than it is now. CS: Yeah, well… GA: Did it have a basement? CS: This one has a basement. GA: There was a basement. CS: There was a basement too in the old one, yeah. GA: Did you ever go down there? CS: Yeah. It was all dark and spidery. GA: So, it wasn’t all nice and clean, you know, with lights. �CS: When they were going to tear it down and move everything over to the new bank, we had to go down there to see if there was something we had to save. A lot of stuff we probably should have saved but didn’t. It was just piled away. GA: Well, when was this new one built, then? You said about ’71. CS: Yeah. GA: So, did it take them? I mean, you moved in ’71 or ’72? CS: It was finished in 1971. GA: 1971. CS: We moved everything over there. GA: And then you worked there for how many more years? CS: Altogether, starting at the corner, 35 years. GA: Oh, my word! That’s wonderful! And this all came because you were such a good typist. CS: Yeah. And now, I can’t type. [Laughs] 45:03 GA: Oh, well, hey. Now, everything is done… The kids are good at… When they dig up students’ bodies they are going to wonder why their thumbs look so strange, but that’s how they do their typing. CS: Well, we had typewriters. GA: Well, that was before computers. CS: Yeah. We had computers towards the end. GA: Towards the end, okay. CS: Of my employment there. That’s when I got out. I didn’t want to get confused. Well, I wanted to retire anyways. GA: But you were there when they had the big robbery, weren’t you? �CS: I was working there, but I hadn’t gotten there. This happened early in the morning, 8:00 in the morning, and I got there at 8:30. It was just Pat and Frank Wicks that were there. GA: But you heard about it, then? CS: When I came to work, Pat met me at the back door, and she said, “Well, we’ve been robbed.” And then she said, “You gotta come in.” The place was full of police and sheriffs. GA: What did they ask you? CS: I really can’t remember. We had to take lie detector tests there. During the investigation, we all had to take lie detector tests. Like, where were we and when did we come to work, and all that. I can’t really remember that. GA: So, then, you would come in a back door. CS: Yeah. GA: Because banks didn’t open until what, 9:00? CS: 9:00. We never could quite figure out how they got the front door open. They just walked right in even though they had been locked the night before, but somehow they… GA: Did they ever catch them? CS: They didn’t catch-. Oh, well, they did, but this was long after. GA: Because they wore masks, like presidential masks or something like this. CS: I can’t remember that, because I didn’t see them, but one of them was arrested down in Florida. He ratted on the rest of them. GA: Oh, okay. CS: Told them who the rest of them were. GA: They had to be… They really planned that, then. CS: Yeah. They were… They were renting a condo as you come into town. It was on the river right there as you turned into Saugatuck, North Shore Harbor Condos, or something. They had been living… They were living there. They had rented there. �GA: And they just cased the whole place? CS: They knew when Brinks was going to come and pick up the money. It was…. It was Labor Day weekend. And, of course, Brinks didn’t come that Monday, so all that money was held over to the next weekend. GA: They were very professional, then, weren’t they? CS: They never did recover any of the money, but eventually all of them were caught. GA: But they never, ever figured out how they were able to get in those front windows, those front doors? CS: No. I wonder if they ever questioned them to find out how they did it. GA: I would think so, because obviously they’d have to have… CS: Tools. I don’t know. GA: You’ve had some experiences here, haven’t you? CS: Then we had a fire in the new bank. GA: Oh, I didn’t know this! Tell me about that. CS: I forget when it happened, but it was at night. Somebody coming out of The Sand Bar saw smoke coming up from the bank and called the fire department. The manager, John Guyer, was living on Cambeck Road. They called him, and he went down there, and Pat. Pat was where she lives now, so she came. They had three people to call if anything happened. One was the manager, one was Pat, and one was me. Pat tried to get me, but I didn’t hear the phone. GA: Well, it was in the middle of the night, so. CS: Yeah. Well, I did finally get down there. It was an electrical fire in the box where all the wires and things were. John Guyer, the first thing he thought about were the Carl Herman paintings. GA: Oh. �CS: There were four of them in the bank, and he got them all down. The fire was over where they were hanging on the wall. He got them all down, covered them up, and then saved them all. 50:04 GA: Well, that was very lucky. Was there much damage done inside the bank? CS: Oh, yeah. We couldn’t. We couldn’t work in there. We had to get a trailer out in the parking lot. We had to work out of the trailer. GA: For probably a couple of weeks. CS: Well, longer than that. GA: Longer than that? CS: It was during the winter. GA: Oh, no! CS: And it was cold. [Both chuckle] GA: Oh, dear. CS: Nothing under the trailer. They had straw bales under the sides. GA: But that doesn’t protect much, oh my word. CS: Every night, we had to bring everything over into the vault and lock it up. The vault was still.. GA: Still useable. CS: Still useable, yeah. GA: In the bank. CS: Because it had been closed-up while the fire was going on. GA: That would be fireproof, too, I’m sure. CS: Yeah. �GA: Wow. CS: But the restrooms were over there. [Both laugh] We didn’t have any in the trailer. GA: [Laughs] My turn! I can’t wait! Hurry up and take this customer! CS: You’d put a coat on and run over there. GA: Oh, dear. [Chuckles] When was this, do you remember what year? CS: Gosh, I can’t remember the date. GA: Well, it was after ’71, though. CS: Yeah. GA: So, probably the late 80s, maybe? CS: The 80s, okay. Yeah, it had to have been in the 80s. GA: So, the bank was really not that old. CS: No. There was a basement in that bank, too. There was smoke, the smell of smoke down there, but I don’t remember any damage in the basement. It was all on the upper level. GA: Luckily, someone was coming out of The Sand Bar and caught it. CS: Yeah. GA: Wow. CS: I don’t think of anything else. Well, it must have been around Christmastime when it happened, because we had a Christmas tree in the lobby. GA: A Christmas tree, okay. But, then you didn’t have room for that when you moved into this itty bitty… CS: Oh, no. It was… We probably got back into the bank in the spring or summer. GA: But even so, that’s gonna be quite a while. CS: It was a long time, especially in the winter to be freezing like that. �GA: See, I’d never heard that before. I’m sure a lot of people. CS: I have photographs of the trailer, it would have been the trailer. GA: I’d bet they’d like that here, it would be nice. CS: Well, they’ve got a lot of those. It was around the holidays because the people in town were so good to us. They kept bringing us food. GA: Probably hot cocoa or something like that. CS: We did have coffee. But they brought cakes, and rolls, and donuts. GA: All those good things. CS: Candy, man. A lot of stuff. GA: And I think that’s part of what makes Saugatuck so neat because it’s so small, especially in the wintertime. Everybody knows everybody. CS: Yeah. GA: Because all of the outsiders, I should say a majority of them, are gone because people are not going to come here in the wintertime, because it’s mainly the summer, the water, the hunting, the fishing. CS: One winter, we had one of those sled dog races. GA: Down to Main Street? CS: I don’t know. I think they were out of town, but they were all in town with the dogs. This was after the pavilion was gone. GA: So, after 1960. CS: Yeah. All these people were there with their sled dogs. They all came into town. GA: Well, that would be a good draw. So, they went right down Butler Street, then? Main Street? CS: I can’t remember where they raced. It had to be out of town, probably, but they parked their trailers in town. �GA: Woof, woof, lots of dogs. Well, that would be exciting. Those are good memories. CS: We used to have a rubber duck parade race on the river. GA: Oh really? CS: Where people would sponsor a rubber duck. GA: In front of the pavilion? CS: No, it was down by the ferry. We’d dump them all in the river and see who won. GA: So did they go… I don’t know what way the river flows, probably to the lake. CS: Yeah. GA: So, they would float north, right? CS: I don’t know if they had a way to keep them from going all the way to the lake. GA: They probably had a cut off for whose got there first? CS: Yeah. GA: Ah, that’s fun. CS: We only did that once? GA: Did you do it? CS: No. 55:00 GA: Oh, Cynthia, come on! Rubber duckies! [Both laugh] Were they yellow ones, or bright? CS: They were yellow. GA: And they had numbers on them so you could know whose was whose? CS: M-hm. GA: Oh, that’s neat. What else can you think of that was different? I’ve never heard of that. That’s neat. �CS: This is jumping around. GA: Oh, that’s okay. CS: They used to have Venetian Night at the pavilion where people would come in costume and they had dancing and costumes and the Venetian Boat Parade used to be really big. There used to be 25-30 boats in the parade with decorated… GA: Decorated with lights on them and costume and theme. I would assume they had a theme they would carry out? CS: I don’t know if they ever had a theme, you just decorated. There were a lot of them. And then, when gas got expensive, the boats, they didn’t want to use their gas in a parade, so. GA: And probably different organizations or families or whatever would have the boat, or it could be your little boat. CS: Yeah. GA: For example, Oxbow might have one or something like that. CS: They had one, and the Saugatuck Yacht Club and the Singapore Yacht Club. Different groups would have a boat decorated. GA: That’s neat! CS: And then, I used to sit on the roof of my aunt’s restaurant to watch it at night. GA: Oh, it was at night? CS: The boat parade was at night. GA: Oh, sure, with all of the lights on it would be much more exciting. So, you sat on the roof? CS: Yeah, I could climb out the bedroom, out of the hall window and sit and get a good view. GA: [Laughs] And not get yelled at, right? CS: That must have been after the pavilion was gone, otherwise there wouldn’t be much to see. GA: Otherwise, the pavilion would have been in the way. �CS: Yeah. GA: And nobody yelled at you for sitting on the roof? CS: No. [Both laugh] GA: Oh my word. Well, Cynthia, this has been very, very interesting. When you think of some other things, we will talk the next time we do newsletters. I’ll try to take notes or not. I don’t have a little recorder, but I think this would be really, really great for them. I thank you so much for sharing these memories with me. Remember they are going to go to Grand Valley. CS: I didn’t know that. I thought it was going to be kept here. GA: Well, yes, but they will go there. I think that’s where they are going to sort through them and put them all in, then coming back because they are going to stay here as far as this is concerned. Stories of Summer, is that what the whole thing is called? CS: A lot of mine was winter. [Chuckles] GA: Well, its memories of the Saugatuck-Douglas area. So, thank you very much, Cynthia. I appreciate that. This was fun, and it wasn’t so horrible, was it? CS: Well… GA: Well, yes, I know. [Chuckles] CS: I can’t think. GA: Oh, yes you can. CS: Of dates and things like that. I don’t remember certain dates. GA: Well, I think you’ve done a very good job. I enjoyed it, and I’ve learned a lot. We know that you will not have your picture taken because that’s what you said. CS: Right. GA: So, that’s going to be on here before I shut it off. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-SorensenC_2018-07-21 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sorensen, Cynthia Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-07-21 Title A name given to the resource Cynthia Sorenson (audio interview and transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource Cynthia Sorensen shares her memories of the burning of the Big Pavilion, attending high school, and working at The Hollyhock House. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Asman, Gina (interviewer) Kutzel, Ken (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Restaurants Allegan County (Mich.) Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3649dc866f590ee816a0e6e8b6311c7b.pdf 202dc9558755d9e3993551f6d6d88186 PDF Text Text Larry Philips interviewed by Eric Gollanek and Megan Stevens July 21, 2018 EG: This is Eric Golloneck and Megan Stevens and I'm here today with say your nameLP: Larry Philips EG: at the old schoolhouse in Douglas Michigan. on July 21, 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by Grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage program. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. I'm interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences this summer, in particular in the Saugatuck-Douglas area. Can you please tell me your full name, Larry, and spell it? LP: It's Larry Richard Phillips. L A R R Y R I C H A R D P H I L L I P S. EG: Okay, very good. So, we'll start in the beginning you were talking about the old schoolhouse and being a student here. Tell me bit about where you grew up. LP: I grew up in Douglas [Laugh] EG: Okay. LP: We lived in Saugatuck with my dad who's in the service. EG: Okay. LP: In fact, I met my dad when I was five years old. when we went to pick him up on the bus when he came back from World War II. MS: Wow, that's an amazing story. LP: And I went to the first grade over there and then we moved to Douglas and I was in the second grade here. EG: So, first grade in Saugatuck and then transferred if you will cross the river. LP: The River here to Douglas, yeah. EG: Very good. Tell me little bit about your parents and your family and maybe their names and �what they did, what their background is with.. LP: My family… My wife's name is Carol. We've got three children. Alison, Kevin, and Michelle. Alison lives in Hudsonville and the other two are located pretty local. They're out on Old Allegan Road. EG: Okay, so stayed close, family stayed close together. LP: Yep, pretty close. EG: Your parents, you mentioned your father was in the service in World War II. What was his name? LP: Henry Phillips was his name. EG: Was he from Saugatuck originally? LP: No, he was from Fennville. EG: Okay. So, there's a family connection there in the area. What was his role in the second World War? LP: Just Infantry. EG: Was he in Europe? LP: Yes. EG: Or the Pacific? LP: Landed in Italy and walked to England. EG: Okay. MS: Wow. [All Laugh] LP: As the war moved, so. Right, yeah. He didn't really walk to England, because you have to get across the water. [Laughs] There's some other transportation involved. �EG: For sure, yeah. What were some of your of most vivid memories from childhood growing up and Douglas? LP: Vivid ones? [Laughs] EG: Ones that stuck out, memories growing up. They could be here at school or could be off you know in the neighborhood or off at the the beach or river, or… LP: As a kid, I mean we probably use the athletic field down there for everything because we played, I think, baseball, every day that it was a good day. Yeah, in the winter we always went sledding to the golf course. EG: Uh-huh. LP: Had bicycles in the summer, would ride to Baldhead. We'd climb the face of Baldhead. Can't do that anymore, but back then, you could. [All Laugh] EG: Uh-huh. LP: And, yeah that's really just about it. EG: Yeah, how about… You mentioned your father in Fennville. Your mother's family? Was she also from Fennville? LP: My mother's family was from Sweden. and they were in Minnesota, then they went to Chicago, and then they bought a a farm up here and my mother graduated from this school. EG: Okay. LP: Oh. and my dad's mother graduated, which is my grandmother. She graduated from this school too in eighth grade. EG: What was your mother's name? LP: Francis. EG: And what was her maiden name? �LP: Ekdahl. EG: Can you spell that? LP: E K D A H L. Wait a minute, it might be E C ? E C K D A H L. Boy, I've never been asked us to for a long time. EG: Yeah, that's a tough one to pull off, yeah. LP: I was thinking about the family history pieces and thinking about those. My cousin Alice, her last name was Eckdahl. She's married to John Bock, who was an ex-Fire Chief in Saugatuck. EG: Okay. MS: Oh, wow. EG: A close web of connections in a small town right, or series of towns. 5:01 EG: So, deep roots here in the community, gets a little sense of how your family first came here. Particular memories you had growing up here that you know you say that were good or bad parts about being in town or growing up here? LP: They were always really good because we had Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. We used at sea scouts. I never belonged to the sea scouts. EG: Okay. LP: Yeah. EG: Were there some particular activities that stand out from that for you? LP: Just playing ball. EG: Just playing ball. How about in the scouts? LP: At that time there was a shuffleboard dollar tennis court. �EG: Okay. LP: The whole works. Plenty of things. EG: Lots of activities down there. I know in some other interviews, baseball stood out as the sport in town. In town, yeah, now when you… When you went to Fennville for high school did you participate in any sports or clubs or anything? LP: No, I couldn't because I had to ride the bus back. There was no way for me to get back. When my parents picked me up because we only had one car, and my dad used that because he was working. EG: Oh. LP: So, I couldn't get involved in sports. I would have played baseball if I would have been able to get back and forth. EG: What were the years, approximately, that you were in school that you were in school here in Douglas? LP: I think I started school here, it was either '46 or '47. EG: Okay. LP: And then I graduated from the eighth grade here. And then I graduated from high school in 1957, in Fennville. EG: Right. Was there a particular reason that you went to high school in Fennville as opposed to Saugatuck? LP: At that time, Douglas with a separate identity. EG: Right. LP: Saugatuck had the high school. We weren't tied in with Saugatuck, so we could go to any one wanted to. Then, some of the kids went to Saugatuck. EG: Right. LP: There was a bus that went to town for Fennville, so... �EG: Got you, that was more convenient. LP: There were about four or five of us that went to Fennville. Because of the bus, it was more convenient, as opposed to Saugatuck, where you would just have to walk. EG: Walk, right. LP: Or get a ride or something. EG: Yeah. Got you. Very interesting. Very much kind of a world. LP: All of the roads are gravel except the road that come down through town. Okay, that used to be Old 31. EG: Right. MS: How mock the gravel roads everywhere. LP: All gravel. EG: Growing up here in Douglas in particular were there, were there businesses and places or institutions beyond the field there that you hung out or that were important for you or your family? LP: Well, the one restaurant that was the Soda Lounge, which is now Everyday People. I think that's always been a restaurant in one shape or form. EG: Okay, yeah. LP: And the bakery. EG: What was the Soda House like when you were growing up or a teenager? LP: Well, you'd get an ice-cream cone for a nickel. [Laughs] MS: That's awesome. EG: That sounds like a good deal. �LP: You might be allowed one of those every two weeks or so. [All Laugh] EG: Right, absolutely. LP: But then, we go there in the morning when waiting for the bus because it always open it up so could in where it was warm, which was kind of nice. EG: For sure. MS: Very nice. LP: Bill Kruger was the name of the gentleman who owned it, and where he left I have no idea, but he coached us to use one of our coaches for baseball. EG: Okay. MS: Oh, wow. EG: Very nice. So, ice-cream there was this was a stand-out. Were there others? LP: Then the Douglas Bakery was there. EG: Particular things remember eating from or that you wanted to eat? LP: I think that was one of my first jobs that I had. I think was eleven years old and sorted pop bottles and beer bottles. EG: Okay. MS: Oh wow. EG: Uh-huh. Very cool, very interesting, yeah. So, other work? So, thinking about summertime is the focus of this. Other jobs that you had? It sounds like you worked there, and were there other things you did during the summertime in terms of work? LP: I had a ... I delivered papers at that time. I think it cost fifteen cents a week to have the paper delivered. �MS: Oh, that's a good deal. [All Laugh] LP: In the winter you had to walk it, but if I don't answer the number you could ride a bike. EG: Right. So, daily? Daily delivery? Was it a daily paper? LP: Yep, a daily paper. 10:00 EG: Some early mornings. LP: Some early mornings, yeah. [Chuckles] Then I worked at Sickle's Market. EG: And what kind work did you do? LP: Stocking shelves and doing that. EG: So, tell me a bit about after your graduation from high school what were your steps from there? What did you do at that point? LP: Well, I graduated in '57 and I went to work in 1957 in at Food Industries. EG: Okay. LP: I work. I worked there for.... jeez. Well, I was part of Lloyd J Harris Pie Company, but it was called Food Industries. EG: Okay. What… how did you… what was your entrance there? How did you get hired there? LP: Stacking crates. EG: Stacking crates? LP: Of apples delivering crates of apples. EG: Okay. �LP: Well, not crates of apples, the crates. Loading trucks in. EG: That was a year-round job or seasonal? LP: The first year was seasonal because I got laid off in the summer EG: Okay. LP: …but I had another guy who mowed yards. We had a good time doing that. So, we made it through. It's not a bad place to be in the summer. EG: No, it isn't. LP: There's always, you can always find a job, if you want a job. EG: And then from that point, what other work did you do there? Or, what was your…? LP: I ended up... I was... The manager that was there was Joe Prentergass, and he was the one that got us started with Lloyd J Harris. And, then, when I came back to work I took care of Harris' house. Mowed the yard, cleaned the swimming pool that's one reason we don't have a swimming pool, because I had my fill of cleaning those. [Laughs] EG: That was enough of that, right? LP: Yeah, it was the in summer. Usually had to fix crates or do something else while it was down. [Phone Rings] LP: Oh, I think that's me. Whoops. EG: That's okay. LP: I have no idea what it is for. Soon as you touch it, it's gone. MS: It's ended already. EG: Not a problem, not a problem at all. Yeah. So other work that you had there with Harris? Talk a little bit about that. �LP: Well, yeah, then I started driving truck. okay. and hauling between here and Saugatuck. We fixed apples, prepared apples for them to make into pies. And also went to... then we'd collect blueberries in the summer, at the Locker Plant, because they owned that. EG: So, lots of fruit on the move. LP: Fruit on the move. [All Laugh] EG: Any questions that pop out to you there, Megan? LP: Seems like it was 62 or 63 when they closed it. Three of us worked up in Shelby, Michigan, and established another plant up there for doing all the fruit up there with Lloyd Harris. We'd rode back and forth with him every day. EG: Kind of… maybe thinking a little bit about Saugatuck and Douglas together, what were some of your impressions of Saugatuck, as someone living in Douglas through your school years high school years and beyond? LP: Oh, we always hung out in Saugatuck. EG: Okay, spent a lot of time there. LP: We did. The Soda Lounge was there and that's where everybody congregated, and you had all the records you listen to. You’d have to pay for it but I mean it was no big deal. Well, it was, but… EG: So this will be in the mid-fifties? LP: Yeah. The big pavilion was there, you'd go there for movies. That's when you're kid. When you got older it was a bar down there. MS: That's right. LP: Spent some time there as well. I guess. EG: This is good. So yeah, what can you tell me a little bit about the Soda House, the Soda Lounge? What kind of records were there? Were there…? �LP: Oh, all 50s. EG: Oh sure. LP: Lots of R&B. Galveston. Yeah, a lot of Country Western was starting to be pretty popular back then. EG: Are there any particular records you remember or artists you remember? LP: Not really. [Laughs] That was a long time ago. We had a good time. Had a good time. There you go, that's right. Of course, cars, hot rod cars were the thing back then, too. EG: Mhm. Did you have a car? LP: I did. I did. Yeah, when I was seventeen I bought a brand-new 1958 Chevrolet Impala. EG: Okay. MS: Nice. 15:04 LP: Three, 348 engine, dry car, the whole works. That was certainly a car payment. You know, $107 a month. So, you know I had to work. [Laughs] EG: What was the terms of that loan? Was it like two years, three years? How did that work? LP: I remember it cost me $3400, and it weighed 3400 lbs. EG: A dollar a pound, okay. LP: It was $107... Yeah, that's how I remember it. The payments were...$100 I think they were $106. That's why I had to work during the summer when we were laid off. EG: Sure. LP: Unemployment paid $40, but I had to pay the rest. EG: That is a significant car payment. Were there… were their fair number of people you knew from high school that had cars? �LP: Oh yeah. EG: Pretty common? LP: Yeah, pretty common. Everybody was always wanting to race, one way or another. EG: Yeah, that is definitely one of the themes that we're really interested in with this project, especially during the summer. The kind of shenanigans of Saugatuck and Douglas through the 1950's and 60s. Tell me a little bit about racing, hot rod culture. LP: Well, we used to race in Stanton Michigan. So, every weekend we probably be six or eight of us that would drive up there. Up by Greenville. Yeah. Up by [Indistinguishable]. I think the drag strip is still there. EG: It still is there. LP: It's still there. And then there was one in Indiana I can't remember the name of that one right now. EG: Okay. LP: We went down there just a couple times. Yeah. We put a group of people from here that you knew from the community would go up there to Stanton up and down Indiana. EG: Yeah, interesting. LP: So, this was the weekend. Usually, every weekend you were somewhere for racing. EG: Okay, very interesting. How'd that go? [Laugh] How many did you win? LP: I think I won two trophies. EG: Okay. MS: Nice. [All Laugh] LP: Right now, you can probably buy those trophies for three dollars, so what you had invested it wasn't really for making the money. �EG: Sure, sure. That's fascinating. Did you do a lot of customization or modification that you made to your cars? LP: Oh, yeah. Yeah, obviously, all lowered, with laid pipes on. It would come out like… EG: Yeah. Right. I assume you drove your car, I mean... LP: Yeah, we drove them back and forth. EG: Yeah, that's what I meant. LP: My friend, he had a Corvette. We towed that back with a rope, at fifty-five mile an hour too. Oh, yeah and he would put his brakes on if he see someone trying to pull out. Because If I just hit the brakes... EG: Yeah, right... Yeah right. I mean... He couldn't quite react, so it was up to him to make sure he can put the brakes on. So, anyways, up to Stanton, I think it's 80 miles. EG: It's a long way from here. LP: 80-90? EG: Yeah, it'd be a good haul. LP: It's quite North and East in Grand Rapids. So, yeah and no highways. I mean, no 131, 196, or any of that. EG: How did you go up there? Did you just- did you start right away and back roads? LP: Back roads. Yeah, back roads. That all ended when I got married, so. [Chuckles] Racing days were over. EG: How old were you when you got married? LP: 20. EG: So, a couple years. �LP: A couple years. A couple years of having… I'm not gonna say it, good time. EG: Yeah. How did you meet your wife? LP: Well, that same summer that I was laid off. I worked for a gentleman who had a milk delivery. EG: Okay. LP: I did the commercial runs every weekend. Well, she was from Hopkins and she was some living with some lady in Saugatuck, and she worked at the one restaurant where I had made a delivery and we met that way. EG: Got you. What was the restaurant? LP: [Sighs] Ned Roberts owned it. Portacall. EG: Okay, very good. LP: Boy, you're getting lucky on my memory. It's not the greatest at times It comes and goes sometimes. It's like AM radio, fades in, fades out. [All laugh] 19:50 EG: So, racing. Did you ever race at the Air Park Speedway? LP: No, but we went to there when I was in grade school, because a friend who announced made the announcements while we were running and all that we'd set up there in the booth with him. It was Thomas... We had Thomas Insurance here, if you ever heard of that. EG: I have not, not yet. [All Laugh] EG: Not yet. I like that connection. LP: Yeah, so definitely an interesting in racing and hot rods. That's where we… EG: Was there driving around racing, racing on the streets as well in this area? �LP: Oh, yeah. One of the cops used to watch for us help us out. So, that he knew the kids were doing it, you know, so he would watch over you a little bit me. Try to reduce the chance of accidents and things like that. EG: So, get in pretty so decent relationship with the police in town. Never a problem, yeah. EG: Yeah. How about when, you know part of the story… kind of you know things going on and Saugatuck and Douglas go through late 50s and 60s but running with experience with you know biker gangs is certainly something we've read a lot about. Did have any experience? LP: We were... I was married when we had that, because I was a fire department over in Douglas, and they rounded up a bunch of them in right took their motorcycles away from them, put them in jail overnight and they put everything in the fire department, so the fire departments guys to go back release them to them and that's how they copped out is what they did. They were done. But, the guys were decent guys that had the motorcycles, they were just partying and having a high old time. Sometimes, it got out of control. EG: Too many, too many drinks too many times. LP: Too many drinks, yeah. EG: So you had all those bikes and stuff in fire station while you were there. LP: Yeah, that's where they put them. EG: Anything that stands out? LP: That's when it was underneath the Village Hall. EG: Okay. Got you. LP: When the Fire Department was underneath it. EG: Yeah. Anything that stands out about that? Were they decent guys? Where are these guys from? Where were these, if you remember? All over? LP: All over, yeah I think this group was out of Illinois though, kinda sticks in my mind. From the Chicago area. �EG: Interesting. LP: Not trying to pass it onto Illinois. [Laughs] EG: That's a first... That stands, that jumps out to you. LP: Yeah, it stands out. I won't say it's a fact, but that's... EG: Right. LP: But that was just once that that ever happened, though. But I know the town would be so busy it would be blocked off. They just stop traffic from going in because it was no more room for cars to park or do anything else. They just stopped it and barricaded the roads. If you grew up around here you know how to get in without... [All Laugh] MS: Other ways in. LP: Other ways, yeah. [Laughs] EG: Knew all the back roads. LP: Saugatuck's always been a busy, busy town. EG: Yeah. Lots of activity. Were there, kind of switching, your experiences there. You mentioned spending a lot of time there, hanging out in high school and teenage years and twenties. Were there particular places that you, aside from the Soda Lounge, you mentioned bars, as you got older, bars or restaurants...? LP: I didn't really frequent the bars. yeah. If anything, once we' were married, we'd go to The Butler to eat, or the Coral Gables. We didn't do that very often. [All laugh] EG: Not common. LP: Not, no. �EG: You said you had three kids? LP: It was a real treat. Three kids. EG: That's a handful right there [All Laugh] LP: You know what you had to order, you knew how much you could spend, and you knew how many drinks you could have, because you still had to pay the babysitter when you got home, so it was a good deal whatever you did it. Most of the time, we got together with other people that we hang around with you know and have get togethers at their house. You know, have dinner or something. Somebody brings this you bring that. That worked well. MS: Nice little potluck. EG: Do you remember some of the families that you guys used to hang out with for dinners and things like that? LP: Yeah. A lot of are them gone already. Shruten Gus was one of them. The Whitemans. He was the plumber in town. 25:12 LP: Oh, golly. I know there was a lot of other people there but you most of are them all gone now too. Oh, and then we snowmobiled too. We started the snowmobile club, The Snow Gutters. There were some fifty some members. EG: What year did that start, approximately? 1960s? 50s. LP: Oh, quite early. Because I ended up I bought a used snowmobile. It was a year old it, was a 59. Then, I bought a brand-new one that was 1960. EG: Okay. Nice. LP: Yeah. That was out at the old airport. Okay. And then you could ride in the winter I mean the winters were bad enough where you could just take off and ride anywhere you wanna go. EG: Was that common in town, that people road snow machines in town, or not so much? �LP: Well, we set up trail areas where you wanted to go into town, to any of The Butler or the Coral Gables. You had a certain way that we put up signs for snowmobiles in town, in Douglas also. EG: Okay, that's great. What were those, do you remember what snowmobiles you had, the 59 and the 60? LP: Ours were Arctic Cats. There were Arctic Cats, Polaris. I think they're both still about the only ones going. I can try to remember some of the other names, but I can't. Johnson was making some. EG: Yeah, Johnson had one. LP: Oh, there were a lot of different brands. I don't remember them anymore, I'm sorry. EG: That's alright, I was just curious. Where did they come from? Was there a dealer? Where did people get them? LP: We bought the Arctic Cats in Holland, and Mercury was over across that was one of the other brands the Mercury Motor, or Snowmobile, yeah and I was trying to think there was another one up here next to where the Red Wood Drive-In used to be. I can't remember what brand it was. It was pretty popular, but they would repair any snow mobiles. EG: Right. LP: If you had a problem with them, most of time you better do your own fixing. [Laugh] Which is often. EG: Often. [All Laugh] LP: Yeah, it was. EG: Very cool. So, it's a winter experience there, too. LP: Pretty fun stuff from early on. EG: Yeah. Favorite places to go in the summertime? You mentioned Mount Baldhead and climbing that as a kid. Oval Beach. �LP: Yeah, Oval Beach. Douglas Beach. We didn't... We went camping once up to Holland when the kids were little, stayed up at the State Park. Otherwise, you got you got your summer destination right here. EG: Okay. LP: We had a boat. EG: A boat as well, nice. Do you have other questions that you can think of here? MS: Yeah, you mentioned the big pavilion and the pavilion in the movie theater. Did you go there often or maybe just once or twice? LP: No, it used to be every week whenever they'd change. If it was a decent movie, we went over there to see it. MS: Oh, nice. LP: And we used to go to the wrestling there. okay. Oh, wrestling? Gorgeous George and all the Flow Eagle... [All Laugh] LP: I can't believe they can fake stuff so well. EG: They do a pretty good job. LP: That was inside the big ballroom where they have the wrestling. EG: Right. MS: Oh wow. EG: Other events you remember or other things, memorable things from the Big Pavilion you remember doing there or seeing in there? LP: They had a drive theater just half-way to Holland. EG: Okay. �LP: Oh yeah, so we go there for movies when the kids are little. EG: Right. LP: That was perfect. Yeah, quite a lot of... a lot of people did it. 30:08 EG: So, you mentioned you were in the fire department. Were you in the Fire Department when the Pavilion caught on fire? LP: Yes, I was because I was was one of the other firemen and we were up on top of the roof at the El Forno. EG: Okay. LP: Yeah, and it got so hot, we were hiding behind where the air movement came out of the building you know yeah. Yeah, because it was so hot. When it finally broke lose, really good, that was a little scary. EG: I bet. MS: I can't imagine. LP: Because if you look where the pavilion was right there in relationship to the El Forno. I mean, next door. EG: It was next door you. LP: Oh, man, because house is on the other side burnt, one of the restaurants and then it was three houses across the river that caught fire and burned to the ground. EG: Okay. MS: Oh wow. EG: From the embers? LP: Yeah. It was a good thing the wind was out of the direction that it was. �EG: Right. LP: Otherwise, it could have taken could've whole the town. EG: Right. MS: Oh wow. LP: It was a huge fire. EG: Yeah, for sure. Other parts aspects of that do you remember? How you get the call or how you respond to that? LP: I was working at the pie factory and somebody… They just had a bell at that time and then finally… Well, it was Lloyd Harris himself, he came out to the dock and he says they got severe fire going on downtown at the pavilion, so you guys can go help so I was not on the fire department at that time. EG: Okay, got you. They just recruited you as volunteer. LP: Yeah, to volunteer to go down and help where you could. EG: Yeah. When you were up at El Forno's roof, did you have water or something? LP: Yeah, we had fire hoses. EG: Okay, got you. LP: Trying to keep that the roof and that wet, wetted down too, to keep that from catching fire. EG: Yeah, quite the fire. How long did that go on? What was your term memory of that experience there? LP: Oh, it must have been that at least six hours and I know there was a crew that stated during the night because it was you know, it would flash up a little bit just to maintain it, but I didn't I didn't help. That was done they when the building finally collapsed and everything, everything was gone anyways. It was shortly after that that I got on the fire department. EG: Okay. That was your baptism by fire. �LP: Right and I spent forty-some years the on fire department. okay. Between Saugatuck, between Douglas and then when Douglas went to Saugatuck. John Black was the Chief and I was the Assistant Chief. EG: Yeah. Are there other big event that you remember responding to this is part of that. LP: Oh yeah, the Tara when it burned, right next door. That was a a big fire. Yeah, there was a couple hotels in Saugatuck that burned. Can't remember the names of them.... Mount Baldhead Hotel, where Ship and Shore is. That burned. I can't remember the other one was in the middle, but it was another hotel that burned to the White... The Whitehouse, I think it's called but it was Casablanca, and blanca is Spanish for white. EG: Right yeah, yeah. Very good. So, and then, kinda shifting back to work at the Harris Pie Factory. Tell me about your work there in the later years, jumping forward a little bit. And, I'm guessing, retirement? LP: Well yeah, when Food closed finally. I went to Saugatuck and worked and drove a lift truck, and then I got involved in maintenance. Worked my way up through there. Went to several schools. Got knowledge of refrigeration and electrical. EG: Okay. The whole works. LP: So then, I got the opportunity to be head of maintenance and chief engineer for the whole plant and anything involved. 35:13 LP: Then, well, we went through some bad times there, too. When Harris sold the business, he sold it to Mrs. Smith Pie Company. I don't know if you've ever heard of Mrs. Smith, but they're out east, out in Pennsylvania. EG: Yeah. LP: It got caught in an anti-trust suit. EG: Okay. MS: Oh. �EG: What year was this? LP: And it was that way for two years, then two guys bought it. Frank Roca and I can't remember the name of the other, the guy’s name but they were there for the money because all the money that had made it went into the bank in a lump sum and they paid so much for the plant on took the money. EG: Got you. About what year was this... Did Harris sell the plant and then the ... LP: I think it was around… [Mutters] I want to say it was in the seventies. EG: Okay. LP: If I start talking about another one, I'll probably remember when the date was. But, they had it for two years. And, then it went. They were having trough financial and a company in Chicago took us over and they finished it up in about a year and a half or so. It had right around 78 when it all started going bad because at '82 it was closed and two of us were retained by the bank to keep it, so nobody would mess with it. In '82 Mrs.... or Rich Products wanted to buy all the equipment and they came there, and they were looking at. They wanted all the equipment and they asked me if I stay there to help him unload it and I says, "No, when that happens, I'll be gone." They just, then they decided to buy the whole plant. EG: Okay. LP: When the meantime, Chef Pierre was after me to go work for them in Traverse City. I kind of held them off because Rich Products and them both gave me an offer on the same day. I went up there and they showed houses and everything else for us to move there. EG: It's good to be in demand. [All Laugh] LP: Yeah, it was. Worked out where they both made me the same. nearly the same offer. okay and I didn't have to move and start paying for another house. [Chuckles] So, I just stayed, yeah. Yeah, that was in 1982, and I was assistant manager with a fellow from Winchester, Virginia. and then he got called to another plant in Appleton and they made me general manager. I did that for twelve years. then they got so busy that they didn't want to build any more in the town. The town really wasn't real good favor about adding more industrial area to it because it's a resort town, so. �EG: Right. In this specific location, probably, too. LP: Right. EG: It's right there, right on your way in and out of town. LP: Right, yep. So, they just turned it over to Sarah Lee, the business and then we shut the whole plant down and stripped it I'm trying to remember the fellows that bought it. Anyway, the Fruit Exchange. The office building used to be the old Saugatuck Fruit Exchange, the one on the south side of Culvers Street, where it's a park now. EG: Yeah. LP: That had I big building in there. It might be one of those pictures in there of that, I don't know. EG: Okay, we will have to look. So, this would have been the early 1990s? LP: No, it was in 1998, when that happened. EG: Okay. LP: That's when we closed it, when we were done with it. EG: Got you. LP: And then, I worked for Rich Products, going around to different plants, helping them on different items and I did that for two years and then a friend of mine. I went to work for him in Grand Rapids for two years and retired. 40:01 LP: Excuse me a minute, I don't... EG: No, that's okay. LP: It was the wife. My daughter and all of them are in Hawaii. EG: Very nice. �MS: A good place to be. LP: I don't know why you'd travel anywhere else when right here, you've got everything you need here, beach wise. EG: Changes that you've of kind of, reflecting over changes seen you in Saugatuck and Douglas? What are some things that have changed the most from your childhood to now? LP: Well, we used to…. The Butler, we went there last night. We still do, but you don't know anybody any more in there. Used to be our town, you know, and now it's the younger, a different group that is in there. And we belong to the Singapore Yacht Club, because we were there for 12 years with a boat, and then we bought a motor home and did that for about ten years and now we got a fifth-wheel that we bought, and sat a lot in Florida, and we go down there in winter. MS: Escape some of the cold. LP: For a while. Escape some of the cold. EG: How long do you go down there? LP: For three months three and a half. EG: Other changes that you've seen for the good or for the bad? LP: I think everything is more or less been for the good. I'm not so fond of the highway out here. EG: More and more traffic. LP: More and more traffic, yeah. It's not made where. I mean you pull of of Douglas and you almost swiped my car and it's getting there for a left and turn and if a truck comes, they almost have to go over to that. And then, you see the bicycles riding down the highway. EG: Yeah. Quite the mix. LP: Yeah. [All Laugh] �LP: That was the only place where it was wide enough where they didn't have to use the highway really if they didn't need to. So, I... well… maybe they say it helps Douglas. I don't know if it does or doesn't, but it's there. EG: Way too soon to tell. LP: Yeah. EG: Looking ahead, kind of thinking about you know, this interview will be saved for a long time. So, when someone listens to this tape fifty years from now, imagine that, what would you like to know about your life and the community right now? LP: I enjoyed both communities. EG: Of Saugatuck and Douglas. LP: [Laughs] Of Saugatuck and Douglas, but I'm still partial to Douglas. [Laughs] No, I think it's a great area really. EG: In particular things you described for some future listeners that we don't know who that moment might be like? LP: Yeah, would be interested in another fifty years. Didn't change much over in the last fifty really. I mean the buildings got renewed or something like that you know. EG: It's still recognizable place from your child as a resort community a small town small. LP: Yeah, small town, and you know, yeah. EG: Any advice for a young person that might listen to this tape? LP: I think it's more of a retirement area, as to find a job in town and live here is kind of tough now. EG: Yeah. LP: When we were younger it wasn't. I mean, we had grocery stores, so you were here all the time. Well, they still have the grocery store. More work. EG: More year-round work. �LP: Yeah, more year-round work. More diversity of work. It's kind of nice for the younger people. They've got a lot of different places that they can work. My daughter she works is waitress at The Butler. I think she's the oldest one her been there the longest. Not the oldest but been there the longest. EG: Very good. LP: Fifty years, that's an interesting, I've got to do some more thinking on that one, you know. EG: Right. LP: I don't know much more can it change. MS: Yeah. 44:59 EG: Tough to say. I guess another way to look at is what you imagined your life would be like, when you're in the school building, looking forward imagining fifty years down the road Is Saugatuck and Douglas pretty much how you expected? LP: Course it changes. [Phone Rings] EG: You're in demand. MS: That's a fun tune. LP: Somebody trying to save interest on your credit card. I don't know if you get those calls. EG: Yeah, we do. [All Chuckle] LP: It drives me nuts. Where were we? [All Laugh] EG: I guess another way to say it did you imagine when you were a kid that you would stay here in Douglas? �LP: Yeah, I kind of did, because there was always work and it was busy, you know. Of course, we had the company here so that employed quite a few people, really. EG: Right, for sure. Any other questions that you have on your mind there, Megan? LP: No, not really. Not at the moment. EG: Anything else we didn't ask about that you want to share? LP: Not really. Other than food industries, there was the Morgan Ice Company. It was bought, but you probably know that. LP: In that hall, we used to play basketball over there when we were here in school. It used to be that the Douglas ACs owned it. I don't know what it was originally made for. I never inquired. EG: I don't know off-hand myself. LP: Somebody said it was a church at some time. EG: Yeah, I think that's accurate. MS: Yeah. The Library? Yeah, I think it was a church, and then.... LP: I don't ever remember it being as a church when I was going to school here. right. I know the athletic office was active there. Yeah, they had all their weightlifting and all that stuff in the basement. That was quite popular back then, too, with baseball teams Fast pitch for men. That's kind of disappeared now. But, a lot of the guys here played it. I didn't, I didn't care for softball. The library tore down the house we lived in for two years right after we were married. [All Chuckle] EG: Bit of a loss. LP: A bit of a loss, yeah. Some things have come and gone. But the town is still advancing, though. Some beautiful homes go up. Lake Shore, there are some nice ones out there. [Chuckles] It is a retirement area, really, when you stop and look at it. Other than what kind of labor you call it that work for the waitresses, the stores. EG: The service industry. �LP: Yeah, service. That's what I'm trying to think of, service industry. There are no major companies around, like there used to be so. Holland is a place where you go to work. EG: Oh, very good. Unless we have any other questions or comments, I'm going to thank you. Thank you so much for your time. LP: Thank you for having me. EG: For sharing your memories here. LP: I wish I could remember more. I'll probably think about a bunch of them. EG: We can always do a part two. If you think of some good stories, let us know. LP: If there's something you need. MS: We can always come back. LP: Well, I was on the fire department so that was always involved. Then, I was on the city board here. Did that. It was active, it was the job that held me here, so I stayed. EG: And it’s a long continuity, it sounds like. You've had a long time of being here to understand how things work. LP: What doesn't work. EG: What doesn't work, yeah. LP: Yeah, all towns have the same problems. I think. Roads and everything else. EG: Well, very good. LP: I enjoyed the area. I love the area. EG: Very good. We appreciate you sharing all that of and with that. I'm going go ahead and I'll stop the recording here, and this concludes our interview today. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-PhillipsL_2018-07-21 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Philips, Larry Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-07-21 Title A name given to the resource Larry Philips (interview transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource Larry Phillips recounts his time in Saugatuck and Douglas, where he grew up. In this interview, he discusses working several jobs, including his work at the Lloyd J. Harris Pie Company. He also discusses his time as a firefighter and provides a first-hand account of the Big Pavilion fire. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gollanek, Eric (interviewer) Stevens, Megan (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Motorcycle gangs Automobiles Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/78f1628354a0d42e3b152c627fbbcbf8.MP3 d6b6654056dd5b4a6614aa37f303f013 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc761d35851dc0dd6594655daadf5afa.pdf f35504f0ccfe16a5e4019192491d8877 PDF Text Text Dave Karpowicz interviewed by Ken Kutzel and Eric Gollanek October 1, 2018 KK: This is Ken Kutzel, and I'm here today with Eric Gollaneck. We're interviewing Dave Karpowicz. at the old schoolhouse up in the art gallery in Douglas, Michigan. It's October 1st, 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project which is supported in part by Grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage program. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. We're interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck-Douglas area. Can you please tell your full name and spell it? DK: Dave Karpowicz. K A R P as in Peter O W I C like in cat. Z like in zebra. KK: Thank you. What can you tell us about where you grew up? DK: I actually grew up in Chicago, right by Midway Airport. I was four blocks away from Midway Airport in a little subdivision called Cleary. KK: Okay, so how did you end up-? What are some of the most vivid memories of your childhood? DK: Oh, I think where you're interested in is how I ended up at the seminary that was part of the Phelp's Mansion. Okay. I belong to a Parish called Saint Rita, and at that time, a recruiter from the Augustian order, Father Dudley Day, came around and started talking to the kids, especially alter boys, seeing if they wanted to pursue a possible life in the priesthood and I was recruited and decided to give it a shot. KK: And can you kind of put that in a time frame? DK: We're talking.. I was my high school class with the class of seventy. So I was recruited in the fall. Well, it would have been before school let out, so it would have been June-ish of 66. My first year there was in 66. okay. September of 66. KK: So, you can continue your story now. DK: Okay. KK: Sorry, I wanted to kind of clarify that. DK: So, I came out with my family. they drove me out, dropped me off and life as a seminarian began. For me, it was a new start. It was like I was only coming out of eighth grade, so there's not a whole lot to start from, but it was time that time that I got to put all of that history behind and start fresh in the new environment that was different for everybody going through it at the same time. I was some I think you might wanna know. �Back that time, the Phelps Mansion was used as a convent for Spanish nuns. I believe that the people, the nuns that cooked for us were Spanish nuns, and I think they lived in there. But, I think there was also a cloistered sect of nuns that lived in there. As you look from what is now the Phelps Mansion across that field, that was the athletic field and you'd be looking right at the seminary at the front. The seminary ran north to south three-story building cinder-black building. The far-left side as you're looking from Phelps Mansion was where the refractory was at. A lot of a lot of priest came into the seminary environment to retire. So, there's a lot of old folks there and then after the Refractory, there's this long a row of buildings. Again, it was three stories. As you walk down the hallway from the re- from where the priests were at, across you had dorms. First of all, you- you have a refractory, beautiful windows overlooked which would be the back side which would be with the Frisbee golf is at now. The early tees of the Frisbee golf. For those folks who walk the property now the seminary is pretty much where the bicycle track. Okay. It was up on that ridge. if you walked there, you can see bits and pieces of the tile that was destroyed when the seminary got destroyed. 5:04 DK: I believe that I was in the second year that that particular building was there. It wasn't much longer than that. I don't think that it was the third year, I think that it was the second year that it existed, and as you walk down that hallway in the main - you- the Refractory had beautiful windows that would have looked out to the West. Coming down the hallway, you would have at dorms. which would be like finger finger appendages off the left-hand side. The right-hand side was all the classrooms in the middle of the building. There was a library and the chapel was right across from the library continuing down two more sets of of dorms here in the classrooms on the right-hand side. The gym was in the back end. KK: Oh, okay. DK: I know that a lot of the kids who played basketball in Saugatuck played in the in that gym. we played them several times and they just came in practice every now and then. The gym was kind of a crappy gym. It had tile floors. So, it was slippery all the time. Let's see, what else do I have to tell you. The property was different than it is now. when you when you came in to the road. that led that leads to the Phelps mansion there's tennis courts in the right hand side. You see those tennis courts? Well opposite of that that right on the road, there were barricades in there. So, Phelps was considered to be… oh, I can't think a of word. but he was a collector of animals. That pond that was in there used to have alligators in that pond there were two barricades. As you take the road bends to the right a little bit. Well, if you went to the left over there and went up that hill, he tried to do the perpetual motion machine up on top of that hill which is kind of an interesting thing. KK: M-hm. DK: There used to be some real nice hikes up in there. when I was growing up. what else can I tell you all? Okay. As you were - if you walking now and you decided to go into the Saugatuck State Park and you take the road to your right, it kind of bends to the left heads out to the right �some more. It passes a wet, a wet area over there. That used to be called the Swamp and that's where ice-skating... We spent most of the winter cleaning off the brush, you know. KK: Sure. DK: And cutting down weeds and stuff and then it would freeze and you would play and they would dig in few a holes in the ice and keep pouring water on there, but that's where the hockey was played. From the Phelps Mansion, there's a hill that to the right. If you’re looking at the mansion from the seminary the hill on the left-hand side. I kinda get lost in the directions there but the other side of that hill, there was a big bar, a huge barn, and an open field. They used to be called the Nun's Field. There's another little football area, that's where they play softball and stuff. But, the barn was two-story barn, and it's claim to fame was that every Halloween the senior class put on what they call Guadeamas, or a play. Let us rejoice, the Latin for "Let us Rejoice" and it was a play and I remember the first year. There I was others again. I would have been there for six weeks now, or five weeks. We met up there. We walked from the seminary grounds into the Phelps Mansion and all. And then, we went over that hill into the barn and the barn had hay bales all over for seating all over. There's people in the rafters and stuff and I've never seen anything like that before. And, it was a terrific play and most of it was jokes about the priest and stuff like that, but it was a great experience. It was snowing that day, too. It was just kinda cold snowing. A snowy Halloween. I remember some, I remember some yeah. and then, what else can I tell you? From the building, course a lot of athletics were in that field between the two buildings. 10:00 DK: The back end of it where the dorms protruded out that was kind of a septic system back in there. But the road… It was called Beach Road now. It's kind of from the Phelps Mansion. You're looking across. You take that road, first road that's- it would be on your right-hand side. You walk off and it curves to the right and up this hill. That's where all the tobogganing and sledding used to be. KK: Oh, okay. DK: You used to go over that ridge then you have probably half mile run so the toboggans and those saucers and stuff and get on top of hill and just kinda slide on down. It was great fun. It was it was super. Oh, I don't know… What else you guys wanna know? The high school is high school stuff. KK: Well, so, did you have any contact with town? Did you go in? Did you hear stuff about it? You guys were out there. DK: We did get to go to town, into Saugatuck but I was a fourteen-year-old kid, you know, with not a lot of money and it wasn't much to do other than go to the drug store. You went up to the drug store and we have like an hour, hour and a half every week. To be honest with you, I went once or twice, I got bored. Well, wasn't much to do for me but other guys went every weekend. So, we went to the drug store, walked up and down, saw the you know saw the gardens and stuff �and then again hey, where I was at, I would much rather be on the property, exploring, doing playing ball or something. KK: You know, you said you played other schools and all that. Did you know go like for sports did you go to other schools? Tell us a little about that. DK: Most of the sports were intramural, so you know we just played different teams within the school Basketball, we did play other schools in basketball. I wasn't on the baseball team, but they played other schools in baseball too. We didn't have many home games. The gym was small. You know, they couldn't deal with any sort of crowds whatsoever so but I do know that we played Saint Joe one time and I do know Saugatuck and I can't remember the others, but they were from their perspective, it was a gimme game, it was just, yeah let's entertain them because they were much better than we were. In … ‘68. Well, ‘67. I can get the years mixed up. My freshman year, went during the basketball season with and in sixty seven, the team went to the beginning of the state playoffs. We had a big team. The center was big. The forwards were big. And then, everybody could shoot. I mean it was it was a good team, but they had no endurance and the end of the three quarters way through the game, they weren't conditioned to go for a whole game, and ended up losing. The second year, they worked on conditioning quite a bit but all the talent graduated and that's. You can never get it all right. that's, that's kinda how that went. The biggest thing about the sports was probably that the team spirit. We knew we we're gonna get basically slaughtered out there but those people who went to the games were all wearing white and black and it would be. The cheerleaders would be going nuts and I mean it would be all over, doing the best they could do. EG: Yeah. KK: Now, you stayed there all year? Or did you go home in the summer? DK: We went home in the summer. We came in and right after Labor Day and then way they worked it out is that every month, either your parents came in or we went home. In October, the parents would come in. That was my mom's favorite time. She would- she would love that drive as you drive into the seminary because of the trees and stuff. she said it just was outstanding. November, of course, we go home for Thanksgiving Christmas go home for Thanksgiving. They came up… I know that parents were here in May, because we went to the Tulip Festival and I knew it it was on Mother's Day because of that. 14:52 DK: In summer the time we went home. [Chuckles] Back in those days it cost four hundred dollars a month to go to the Seminary and extra forty bucks to do laundry. So, that was room and board for four hundred dollars. It was different then. KK: Yeah. So how big of a class did you have? �DK: Probably started always fifty-five. Okay, and by the end of the first semester, you were probably down to forty in the graduating class. My first year the senior class was pretty big. They probably graduated … maybe thirty? But, I've seen graduating classes as low as twenty. KK: Did everybody live on campus? Or were there kids that came in from- from elsewhere? DK: No. To the best of my knowledge, everyone lived right there. Lived right there. That was part of the experience, you know, the routine, the chapel time and all that, but there may have been there may have been one or two that just kinda came in from the outside. KK: So did you have all priests or brothers for teachers? Or how? DK: Yeah. They were all clergy. KK: All male? DK: Hmm? KK: All male? DK: Yes. KK: The reason that I ask that is because you know we're the same age and we started the lay teachers, even in the Catholic schools back then, so I'm just comparing. DK: I remember most of them being priests. Were there one or two that weren't, that might have been. I don't know what they would have taught. I don't know. you know I don't remember ever going to class with those was a lay person but they may have been. KK: Did you… Did you ultimately become a brother or whatever? DK: No, I stayed through my junior year and then left after my junior year, ended up going on. Kennedy High School in Chicago. KK: Oh, okay. DK: That's where I finished up my high school career. KK: Was it different, going back to a regular public high school? DK: Because I was a senior, I figured it was a one-year deal. You know, I wasn't gonna make a lot of long-lasting friendships. I just kinda put in my time. Got through the year and called it good and started college. KK: Have you made any- have you stayed in contact with anybody from the monastery? �DK: Yeah. Yeah. Several kids in my class. One or two. My turns out that my neighbor from across the street was a year younger than I was. He went to the seminary also. We're still in contact. KK: Okay. So, I know in between you lived in California for a while, didn't you? DK: Yeah, we did. KK: What made you come back here? Well, tell us about California, first. DK: Well, I was trained as an accountant, so I did accounting work and then had an entrepreneurial bend and Anita was at a nonprofit executive. She ended up in a car wreck. I don't know what they call it. AK: Sloshed my brain around is the technical term. KK: Okay. And by the way, Anita is also here. That's his wife. DK: So, Anita was looking for something to sell and she thought if she could sell, she could make a living out of doing that, because the nonprofit work wasn't gonna happen anymore. And, she came across as product called a Pillow Pet. I don't know if you remember but it's a pillow that opens up and into a pet. KK: Okay, yeah, I remember that. DK: Yeah, you might have. Anyway, we ended up, Anita's family lives in San Luis Obispo County and we are selling these Pillow Pets at shows and festivals around California. That's were living at the time and decided that we would decide basically that if people were buying them out of a booth, they'll buy them out of a store. So, we had the money. Anita found a four hundred square foot store in downtown San Luis Obispo. 19:54 DK: We started there. In the meantime, the people who run the Pillow Pet business, the creator of it put on… decided to go into “As Seen on TV” commercials. She bombarded children's stations with these Pillow Pets, and, all of the sudden, she created a demand where there was no supply. We were the only one of the only one of the only few suppliers, so we were shipping Pillow Pets like you wouldn't believe. At one time, we… At one time, we had three stores and two warehouses. AK: And an online. DK: And an online. The online was richer. So that was, we called it riding the wave in. So, we… we started with, it was a brand-new concept, saw that demand go way high then, once you start seeing them in Best Buy all the hardware stores in Target, the quality got cheaper because the owner of the company got pressured to basically license her stuff to somebody else. And all of �that took place, demand started dropping. We start shutting stores. I went back to accounting for a while. That's what I did. whenever the entrepreneurial effort has played out, I went back into accounting. AK: It was a great ride though. DK: It was fun. AK: Oh my god, it was fun. [Laughs] AK: A heck of a lot of work, but yeah. We picked San Luis Obispo because they have the largest Farmers Market in the co- in the State of California. It's all year long. Because we had the store in a certain place, we could already be in this huge farmers market that's a big party. So, we can just sell it once a week in terms of people from away. It was awesome. That's interesting. It was is kinda fun. KK: So, what brought you back to Michigan? DK: Go ahead. AK: Jerry Walsh was our realtor in San Luis Obispo. Jerry Walsh and I became friends and she grew up in this area and so she has a house over here on North Union Street. We came to visit her last year and we had a great time and then this year. We had a big fire we were are living in Durango and we ended up coming to visit her because she's kind enough to let us come here. There was smoke everywhere in Durango and so she talked to us and we had a great time while visiting, and now we're here. [Laughs] Now, we live here. KK: Well, welcome! AK: Thank you. KK: Welcome. It is interesting. What're you're you know when you came back, because both of you had lived away, or you probably didn't lived here at all… What were your initial impressions? Can you, you know, talk about that a little bit, coming back here? DK: Well, of course I see the world through different eyes. I see how busy it is in the summer. I see if how much fun people are having at the beach. We walked in. Back in the 70s and 80s, we walked the Beach Road in the summer, but it was still too cold to get in the water by, you know, early June late May early June. It was kinda chilly so we never even went swimming there. But, we've lived in some beautiful resort-type communities. San Luis Obispo was one of them. Morrow Bay, and Durango is a is a joyous community so we're used to that and were uses to seasonality of it and love the busyness love to see the stores busy and love the quieter times too. That's what I notice, the people have a lot of fun down. They were just having a lot of fun shopping. having coffee eating in the restaurants playing on the beach. It's just... a lot of fun. �KK: Okay. Do you have any other questions? We're gonna look here. EG: You can talk a little bit about your time in the seminary here in the school year. What was a typical day like? Or a typical week like? DK: Sure. Days started at six o'clock. We were living in the dorm and the dorm is just one. 24:55 DK: It had twenty beds in it, say two sets of five, the way I'm remembering it, it could be be more than thirty beds. This is a wall separating beds on both sides basically. one door led to the sink room and the restrooms the other door led to the priest monitor of that dorm. Days would start at six o'clock, and it depends on what year you're talking about because this is right after Vatican two, so a lot of changes were happening in the church and the seminary back in in the very beginning when I was a freshman. I wanna say that we started with mass first thing, but I could be wrong, but I know do that there was a chapel time in the beginning. Then we went to the refractory and ate. The refractory had tables of ten people, ten guys mixed classes. Okay so wasn't like you… you were assigned a table. It wasn't like you in like you go sit with you but your friends all time. Each table and seniors and stuff, and the way it works is once Grace was said, somebody from the table went in the kitchen area, and brought the food out for the table, and breakfast was served that way. Lunch is at noon hour-ish. School in the morning. Lunch, school till about three o'clock, and then everybody had to leave the building for… I wanna say an hour or hour and a half between 3:00 and 4:30 sometimes. So, everyone was forced outside to do something so that's when all the intermural athletics were we're done and all the hiking around and stuff. We come back in and we shower go back into the chapel. Kind of a meditation period. The priests would be doing their vespers or whatever they're doing and we just had quiet time the chapel for a while and then back to the refractory for dinner after dinner. Mandatory study hall for two hours from like 7:00-7:00 with a fifteen-minute break in there. Then, after that, you're free for an hour and then back to bed at 10:00, lights out at 10:00. That's pretty the typical day. KK: That's pretty tight schedule. EG: That's a pretty tight schedule. DK: Pretty tight. KK: Now, was that five days a week? DK: The only thing, it was 10-6 at least six days a week. There may have been one day where was it a little bit longer, at least in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah it seems like it loosened up some of the priests that were running the shows said, “You know you guys have to be responsible enough to go to bed when you're tired. So, we're not gonna put on the 10:00 thing anymore, but we're still getting up at six.” You know, the schedule change a little bit like that. So, whoever �wasrunning the show kinda set their own rules for what they were what they felt comfortable with. Yeah. Go ahead. EG: What was the food like? What were some things that stood out that you remember eating? Was it good? They had- Was it Spartan? Was it – DK: So, lunches seemed to be better than dinners and they had some type of a Spanish rice deal that I've never seen duplicated that was just delicious. Just outstanding. I mean it was a good day when you got Spanish rice. [Laughs] It was a good day they when had hamburgers too. They were huge hamburgers and it was just delicious and I can't remember much of the other meals of course they were. Whatever you ate at dinner time would be in the lunch meal somehow. I mean, very little waste going. I remember a lot of the food that peanut butter particular came from the government. I mean [indistinguishable] Looked like a paint can filled of peanut butter with about an inch and a half of oil in there. So, I remember that the rice came infive gallon or five-pound things of rice so that was that was kinda how that was. 29:48 DK: What else can I tell you that's kind of fun? Some of the things in the dorm were really pretty funny. You know that these are all- again, they're in all the same boat. It’s not like there were mixed classes in the dorm yet all the freshman in the same dorm. One time, there was a whippoor-will in the springtime. Every morning about four o'clock is calling out calling out calling out. One of the kids just lost it. He ran down that fire escape. "I'm gonna get that damn bird!" Chased him down, trying to get that whip-poor-will. The way that thing was laid out was that from the dorm to the fire escape in the back went down into the locker room for that dorm. So, we basically got two lockers: one in the dorm area and one down below for the outdoor stuff. That is Saturday. You might be interested in that. Saturdays were around the house chore days. Everybody all week long everybody was assigned a task for a month. you know you may have toilets. You might have sink room. You might have the dorm, you might have a hallway, you might have a classroom. Where ever it was assigned you had for month. On Saturday, it was thorough cleaning day, so and so instead of classes after breakfast in the morning, people will go down into the room where you pick up your mops and you pick up your all that stuff. Buckets and mops, cleaning utensils and stuff. Go ahead. Then, Saturday afternoon was one of the days they would head up to Saugatuck. A lot of guys would go on Saturday afternoon up there. KK: How long was the monastery or the school, how long had it been there when you went there, and how long did it last after you left? DK: The best I can figure this out is that they were using the Phelps Mansion. as the seminary itself. Then, they built the one that I went to the year prior. and that would've been 67 would have been year two. In 72, they sold the building to the state, which made it a low some type of a prison. �KK: It was a prison after. A friend of mine was an auto guard there. DK: So, you'd know more about that than I would. KK: Yeah. DK: They made that into there and what is now the Saugatuck State Park used to be part of the seminary system. One of the recruiting two tools was four hundred acres. So, we used to take those saucers and if you didn't go down to Beach Road. You kind of veered off towards the dunes. Closer to the lake. The goal was to ride that saucer fast enough down those dunes, you'd hit the last thing, you'd catapult up in the air, and you'd land on the beach. That was the goal. [laughs] EG: How often could you do that? When the conditions were right, was that feasible? DK: It was doable. Trouble is it wasn't fun once you did it. [Laugh] You hit pretty hard coming down. It was like, man…. EG: I've seen those saucers with the dents in them. DK: Yes, yes. EG: And a long walk back. DK: A long walk back. But, it was, for those guys who liked speed, it was faster than the Beach Road. But, it was shorter, much shorter. The ride was 150 ft. KK: Now, you brought some yearbooks, didn't you? DK: Yeah, I did. KK: When you look through, is there anything DK: Well, like I said, there's a lot of high school stuff. Here's another picture of the seminary from the Phelps Mansion. KK: See, yeah, that's a much larger building than I expected. DK: Yeah, right in the middle, right in the middle from this angle here you're looking at the library and across the from library would be that the Chapel. They had a beautiful - that old folk's home for those priests was a beautiful facility. As you came in, it was like a rotunda. You come into the rotunda, you turn to the right, and they had all of these little alcoves, about five of them, where these older priests would be celebrating mass everyday, just by themselves and a �server. One of the seminarians would be a server and stuff. The chapels were all mosaic, just pretty. 34:50 DK: Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, all of this stuff is high school stuff. It's just, things that happen in every high school that I can tell you stories about. But, I won't. There's nothing different about it. Here's another dorm picture. EG: Okay, yeah. KK: Oh yeah, that's interesting. Just beds, a series of beds. There you are. DK: There I am, right there. [All chuckle] EG: Now, there's students in the seminary from all over Michigan and Illinois, or? DK: Well, I know there was people from Detroit, Gross Point. I know those people from Flint were there. a lot of people from Chicago because Duddley Day worked with Saint Rita's Parish which is where he lived in Saint Rita's which was Augustinian, which was six miles from my house. Maybe something like that. There's a lot of parishes in there between, so he did all that. I know that Southern Michigan had some representative. I couldn't tell you exactly where they came from, but it just depended on how well the recruiter did. KK: That's really interesting because it's, well there were schools in every other major cities. You know that the monks or whatever or brothers would run and just kind of interesting. A lot of sports involvement, obviously. DK: Yeah well, you had to do something everyday, so intermural football, intermural softball, intermural basketball. Some volleyball, not all that much. EG: You made some mention of the Vatican, too the reforms, changes. What sorts of things, I don't know how to ask this exactly, but what sorts of changes did you see in the Church or in the school? DK: This was back when the, we went from the mass where the priest was with his back to you to looking at you. The Latin went out of the mass. There were major changes in structure. From our point of view every class they had of us will I believe that they were in their second semester of freshman year. Early as the sophomore, they got a casik or a black garb with a hood on it and a black belt. When we were ready to do that, they decided they didn't wanna give us casiks. we got a green jacket. You know but these guys, I mean they sleep late and they not even get dressed, they'd just put the casik on, put the cincher on, and go down. I mean we to had do all this other stuff and those -. �KK: That's interesting. You didn't like that as much? DK: No. KK: Yeah, for the robe. DK: Yeah, exactly right. EG: Probably for teenagers as well, there's probably a certain coolness. DK: Oh yeah, yeah. Let's see some pictures of all those guys you… KK: Yes, I noticed the casicks right away, and I was wondering. Right before you brought it up, I noticed the picture. DK: Yeah. DK: I know what those were. DK: All those guys were ahead of us. KK: Did a lot of them become monks or priests? DK: I would imagine that some classes had none that made it all the way through. Some classes had one or two. I think our class wanna say that three became ordained One became an Augustinian who ran the show here. At least two others became ordained from a different organization. That's my recollection. KK: That's very interesting. DK: One of the guys that came through the the system was younger than me became a bishop. I think. I wanna say his name is Dewicki. I'm not sure. It could be that I could get him mixed up with somebody else. KK: Yeah. DK: Anyways, he's a Bishop, and the Order is very proud of that happening. EG: Oh, sure. KK: Oh, and you know, it's kind of funny, because when you hear people talking about the Phelps Mansion, you hear about it being the prison and all that, but and you hear a little about it being a monastery, but you never that it was a big school. You know what I mean? So, my �thought was, monastery means they were just in the mansion. No, no. But obviously that was quite a campus. 39:57 DK: There's probably, if you figure, maybe 120 altogether. So, it was pretty good, but one of the memories is that when Christmas time we had to put on some sort of - it was our turn to put on the play at Christmas time and we wanted to honor the Spanish nuns that did the cooking. The cloister was full of Spanish and across the way. So, we wanted them to teach us this Christmas song. You know, in Spanish and stuff, so we went and walked over there. You couldn’t see them. They had on.... a screen between. UNKNOWN: Is it, are you doing the oral history? KK: Yes, give us a little right, okay. DK: So, anyway they had the screen between us so I never did see what they looked like. It was kind of interesting they're extremely friendly and did a nice job. At least, we thought it was a nice job. [Laughs] What would we know? It was kinda fun. KK: I think that it's kind of interesting that that all existed on one campus, too. DK: For sure. EG: Yeah, fascinating, interesting too. It sounds like you were, not surprisingly, kind of set off from you know, you were there in some sort of isolation. DK: Yeah. EG: Sure. Lots of stuff going on in the late 1960s in Saugatuck and elsewhere. Music, popular culture, news. Was there a lot of discussion about that? DK: Some. EG: Were you really kind of isolated from what was going on? DK: It was interesting that especially on Saturday, they used to play music through the loud speaker on Saturday, but all the music was approved by a priest. KK: Yeah, okay. DK: It wasn't like … EG: They wouldn't play The Doors necessarily. �DK: No, not necessarily. A lot of Mamas and The Papas, you know, stuff like that. One of the guys that joined the seminary, not as a freshman, I think he joined as a junior, or something. He was a very talented guitar player and he brought influence, he brought a guitar influence into the mass. this is back when things were starting to get lax. One of the rooms was almost like a coffee shop where this guy could sit and play. And people could hang out there. For as long as they wanted to do that, but he was a he brought different music into the mass like "Tell Me Why You're Crying, My Son." I don't know if you guys remember that? KK: I'd have to hear more of it. DK: [Sings lyrics to "Tell Me Why You're Crying, My Son"] KK: Yeah, it's ringing a bell. DK: [Continues to sing] "... through your loving eyes. take my hand my son. All be done be done your when day is done." So anyways, he brought that in. He brought a lot of Bob...Bob's...not Bob Seiger.... KK: Dylan? DK: Yes. He brought Dylan's stuff into the service. It was a time of change. When I was there, they had three different people running the show. It went from very conservative, very more rigid to more lax than I was comfortable with. Just like [indistinguishable] That's just how it went. It was just part of the times part of the people that were involved. It was interesting experience. I'm really glad that I did it, you know? I had a lot of fun, a lot of fun. EG: That's wonderful. KK: We're glad you did too, because you're the only person that I've talked with that has mentioned even that experience. And again, even when a person lives here quite a while, there are things by the end that you don't know about. There really are. You guys never went to Holland, either, or did you? DK: When I was a junior we had this kid that was in my class was very creative. You know, we're trying to raise money and this is one little room inside the school in the basement that wasn't used for anything. 45:00 DK: It had the trophy case, which of course had no trophies in it. [Chuckles] EG: That's what they were praying for. [Laughs] DK: That was it! Some days, it was for the trophy case. Anyway, we decided as a class. This was the kid's idea to create a bakery. Now, here you've got a population of people. Every one of have birthdays at that table and stuff. Everybody wants to treat their table for whatever. We �opened up a bakery and our supply came from Holland. One of the priests went into Holland every day, bought you know, discounted bakery goods because we're buying in quantity. He came back in, we'd sell these things, and man we were making money. We're making a lot of money. Just selling these pies and cakes and dinner rolls. You know sweet rolls. It gets a little interesting because twice we were robbed. Alright. It becomes very interesting in terms of what forces would force force a kid to rob the Bakery. Well, you know, that's life. We're assuming it was a kid. We're assuming it wasn't a priest, but there's nothing that said it couldn't have been. KK: Right. DK: No one ever knew who did it. No one, no one pursued no one investigated. Just sort of sucked it up. So, that was an interesting thing. So, you know. KK: It's interesting what. When you sold the goods, did you have to turn the money in? What was the story there? DK: We were saving it for something. I can't remember what. I know that we, we made the money I thought it was all going to go to a charity or something, a party or whatnot. I don't, I don't remember what. You know was there no distribution between the Juniors saying that you were going to get your piece of the pie. That was not the discussion. It was all going to be used for something. It was interesting. KK: Yeah, that's interesting. If that's a question with one of our, another interviews, were there any shenanigans or trouble that people got into? Run ins with getting into detention? Those kinds of things? DK: Oh, yeah. They called it Jug, for whatever reason I don't know. But when you misbehaved you had to spend time doing stuff sitting in the room or whatever. I remember one time I came out of that locker room and in in the basement, and I just this was a Saturday morning and we just finished cleaning and we're gonna go do something that was exciting. I ran to the doors, smacked right into the biology teacher. That was a joke. [All Laugh] DK: So, that happens. So, yeah, kids would misbehave, and they would go into the Jug and stuff. That combination from a priest's perspective is very interesting who all was there, because you've got your retired folks, you got the priests that wanted to be there, you, you know, the younger ones that wanted to influence the seminarians and stuff. You got priests that were basically on their way out of the priesthood, that they were using this as a reflection period of time to see. Like you said, it's isolated, give some time to rethink things �There was one priest there. that probably got there because of sexual tendencies. Misbehavior, maybe, I don't know, but he was isolated out into that... Well... that you know of [laughs]. One that I know of, that's exactly right. He never did anything in the seminary that I know, but everybody was aware and cautious of the whole things but... Some people struggle. you know people struggle with whatever environment that they're in. KK: Okay, well, I really have no other questions, I don't think. DK: Okay. KK: Is there anything that you wanted to ask us? 50:00 DK: No, not really. KK: Okay. DK: Like I said, thank you guys for the opportunity to share. KK: We're glad to get this on tape, we really are. EG: Oh, yeah, that was fascinating. One other question that I'll ask you which is a wrap up question that I really like is. We'll be thinking about who we see in these interviews for a long time. So, imagine someone's listening to this fifty years from now or more from now. What would you like them most to know about your life? Or about the community here? DK: It was an outstanding opportunity. It was a lot of fun, you know, being… going in with the attitude that I'm going to start all over again make whatever I wanted to make out of this happen with the environment with a bunch of guys was a lot of fun. It did... I didn't have the… the same high school experiences that most kids have. So, in terms of dating all of that is a delay in all of that happening but I wouldn't have passed it up. It was a good thing. It was good while I was there, and it was good when it was time to leaves. KK: So okay. thank you very much. This concludes the interview. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-KarpowiczD-20181001 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Karpowicz, Dave Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-10-01 Title A name given to the resource Dave Karpowicz (audio interview and transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource Dave Karpowicz discusses his time at the Phelps Mansion and his experiences being a high school seminarian. He also discusses his time outside of Saugatuck-Douglas, as well as what brought him back to the region. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kutzel, Ken (interviewer) Gollanek, Eric (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Theological seminaries Outdoor recreation Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7cd25623c8799b02d7ca6a26c2d915ad.mp3 d0bcbe758d3b279d8925e1cd3919dfda https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8bc61e0899185a6771a7992d8d9bc30a.pdf bf59b1f90831e13949b0b58123120150 PDF Text Text Tom Fosdick interviewed by Nathan Nietering and Eric Gollanek June 2, 2018 NN: This is Nathan Neetering, and I’m here today with Eric Golloneck, and we are both interviewing Charles Thomas Fosdick. This is part two of an interview that got cut off at the beginning. Tom, can you state your full name and the one you go by for me one more time? TF: Okay. Full name, Charles Thomas Fosdick. Go by Tom. NN: All right. And we are recording today at the Old Schoolhouse in Douglas, Michigan. It's June 2nd, 2018. And we're going to pick up where we left off as best as we can. EG: We were in the break. We were talking a little bit about time in school and playing sports. You were saying that you played quite a few sports. TF: Yep. EG: in Saugatuck. TF: Well, we were talking about Ms. Haddoway, and how she was with the school all the way until it consolidated with Saugatuck and that... I was the last eighth grade class to graduate from the Douglas School after that. And seventh and eighth grade went over to Saugatuck and there was that's where I went to high school for four years and I played sports. The four sports that I played were football for a couple of years, basketball a couple of years, and then golf and baseball mostly the rest of the time. So. But we played ball. Innocent. This has nothing to do with the school but growing up in Douglas, that was what we did, us boys. We played baseball. We played something, but baseball was the thing that we played the most. TF: Friend of mine lived right across from where the school is now, and there was a vacant lot right next door. And once actually there were two vacant lots, one on one side they owned. The other one was for sale. And we played baseball in the one that was for sale and we played football in the one that they owned. [Chuckles] TF: But we would play a lot of baseball just down at the park downtown because that's been there forever, as far as I know. NN: Today, that's Barry Fields, right? TF: Yeah. NN: Yeah. Do you recall any specific coaches that you had when you were at the high school who made any impressionable memories on you? TF: The coaches that I had started out with, Mr. Winter and Jerry Kelly was another one of the coaches. And Joe Domitrz. �NN: Can you spell... Do you remember how to spell his name? TF: Well, that's not spelled the way… NN: That's why I ask. TF: I remember the first year he taught there. He wrote his name on the board and he told us all, “Don't even try to pronounce it just. This is how you say it. Just say it like this.” TF: But it was DOM I T R Z. NN: That's not how I would have expected it either. [Laugh] TF: Anyway, that was... And let's see who else did I have? Yeah, that was... Those were the main ones. Mr. Handford was the golf coach until my senior year, and then Mr. Morris was. But Jerry Kelly coached basketball and baseball. So, I had him for baseball the whole time. NN: Do you recall were there any championship years in any of those sports? TF: Well, it's... NN: How'd the team do? TF: Some well, but it's not the same as what it is not. They didn't have playoffs at the end of the season, other than basketball. But the football when you were season was done, that was it. You were done. In golf, we had some pretty good teams and we would play in the state, the regional things and stuff like that. But as far as baseball went, you when your season was done, that was done. There was no playoffs like what they've got going on now. So… TF: We had one really good pitcher when I was playing, and his name was Frank Kelly. I think he's still around here somewhere. I don't know. I see him occasionally, but just it was fun. We just played ball. That was what we did. Now all kids are on video games instead of outside playing. EG: I'm interested in maybe just step back a second. Your family's history here, were they from… longtime residents? 5:05 TF: My, mother. Her family house was just across Bluestar. I don't even know what that... there used to be a Standard Gas Station or the Shell. There's a Shell, and then across to the south, there was a Standard Gas Station, and their house was the next block behind that. And they pretty much the family all pretty much owned that entire block. Mostly because there was the house and then the whole section to the north of the house was a garden. So, we got a lot of vegetables out of that garden, strawberries. Yeah. She grew up there and my dad grew up in Fennville. EG: Okay. �TF: And where he grew up is still in the family there. It's a Centennial Farm on 58th Street. So, and I've got a cousin that lives there now. NN: So, what was your mother's maiden name? TF: Monique. NN: Monique. TF: M O N I Q U E. EG: Do you remember stories of how they ended up here in this region there or in Michigan? TF: I don't know... The Monique family, I don't know that much about, but the Fosdick family, I've got cousins that have done research on heritage and stuff, and they've traced it all the way back to the origin of the name. NN: Okay. TF: So, they started out in Massachusetts, they were part of the pilgrims that came over and then they worked their way west. And after the Civil War, then my great grandfather moved to Fennville, moved, got to Fennville, and they've been there ever since. EG: Centennial Farm. NN: That's fascinating. NN: You mentioned the Douglas Athletic Club across the street from the Douglas Union School Building. Were there any other places or institutions that you remember that may, you know, were important when you were growing up in the Saugatuck Douglas area? TF: Well, nothing that we were part of. The Masonic Hall which was pretty much next door. Three houses, three buildings down. That was about it wasn't much of anything, really. Just a small town, grocery store down by the river close to the river there. It burned a few years ago. But it wasn't a grocery store then anymore, I don't think. Not after they built what used to be Taft's. NN: There are a lot of people who still call a Taft's. TF: Probably, probably. Yes. But the grocery store that you're recalling was down Center Street towards Wayne's Bayou. NN: Right. Van Sickels. TF: Yeah. �EG: Down that river, one question we had about art schools in Saugatuck, Douglas. Remember anything about Greeson family and their school building that was down there, the art artists group? TF: Not a whole lot, wasn't really much in the arts. [Laughs] Oxbow has been out there forever. So, everybody knew about that. But as far as any other arts place, the town of Douglas has changed a lot from when I grew up. There wasn't any of the arts and crafts stores that are down there now. There was a hardware store that isn't there. Yeah. TF: The Catholic school used to be down there... Tyler's drug store was down there. And that's where the bus stopped, Greyhound. And The Tara was where the condos are now. NN: On the Bluestar Highway, correct? TF: Yep. NN: What did you do when you were growing up in the summer when school was not in session? 10:01 TF: We played ball. NN: You played all the time? TF: [Laugh] Just about every day. NN: OK. TF: We played ball. NN: Did you have any summer jobs as you were getting older? TF: We used to pick cherries in the summer. My dad had a friend that had a cherry orchard, sour cherries, and we'd go pick there. Other than that, not really. I pretty much played ball and my dad didn't tell me, make me have to go do something that would take away from that. It didn't. It never really amounted to anything. TF: But because it was like I say, things are a little different back in those days. When I got out of high school and Vietnam was going on, so college, you'd better have a specific well-intentioned major, otherwise you were getting drafted and you were going. And so, there wasn't… And he told me I would not like the Army. So, I went to Navy. [Laughs] EG: Had he served? He served in the Army? �TF: My dad? Yeah. He was in the South Pacific in World War II. EG: Okay. TF: And. They've written books about his outfit, Ghosts Among Boys. So it's... Yeah. Some of the stories that he told about that. He told me I wouldn't like it. [All Laugh] NN: So, you grew up in Douglas, you went to school in Douglas until you went to Saugatuck to go to high school. TF: High school. NN: As someone growing up in Douglas, did you go to Saugatuck for any other reason besides high school? Did you have a reason to go to that side of the bridge? TF: Uh, just for summer sports when I got older, that was all. We didn't... Again, things were a little different in those days. When people would say, you would say you were traveling somewhere and people would ask, "Well, where do you live?" TF: And we'd say, Douglas. "Oh, where's that?" TF: And we'd tell them and they'd say, "Oh, right next to Saugatuck." TF: That's on the other side of the river. And we're not the same. So, and I and I remember when I was I think I was in high school and they were talking about consolidating Saugatuck schools with the Fennville School system. And everybody knew that that was never gonna happen because the rivalry between the two town, it just wasn't going to... You weren't going to get enough votes to get that to pass. [Chuckles] Everybody one had their identity, which now, you know, they consolidated the fire stations and stuff, then the police, and now that's gone. But. Back when I was growing up, there was never even an option. You had your own identity. You were Douglas and they were Saugatuck. NN: OK. So, was there anything specific about Douglass's identity that made it especially unique, different? The best at something, the you know home of something? TF: You know, it was quieter. Saugatuck was the party town in those days. TF: When I was a senior in high school, we took a senior class trip to Mackinac Island, we went took the bus over to Detroit and got on to South American. Heard about that ship? NN: The steamship, yep. TF: And took the South America up to Mackinac Island, spent the day there and then took the ship back to Detroit and came back. And we happened to come back on Memorial Weekend. At first, they weren't even allow the busses into town because there was no place. The streets were so packed with �cars and people that they didn't think there would even be able to get to the school. And the school wasn't where it is now. So what they finally figured out a way to get them in and then they said, well, no cell phones or anything. “Your parents aren't going to be able to pick you up. You're going to have to walk to the edge of town if you don't live in the city, in Saugatuck.” TF: And that's what happened. Nobody could get in because it was just packed with people. 14:58 NN: Do you have a feel for who those people were, where they were coming from? TF: Chicago, mainly, Detroit, St. Louis, the two main places that people would come from when I was growing up here, St. Louis and Chicago. There was a place out on the Lake Shore. There was all St. Louis people. They had their own little community out there. But they are those are the two main places. NN: And everybody was in town for Memorial Day weekend. [Chuckles] TF: Yep, there was there was big party. Yeah. Just different things have changed over the years. It's more of a family friendly type of place now than what it was then. But they used to have used to the state police used to bring in a trailer and park it next to the Standard Oil Gas Station and they would run a special unit out of there on all the big weekends, Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Labor Day, because it would get very... riotous, I guess you could say. NN: Did any of the locals ever really participate in those sort of activities or was it...? TF: Yeah. Oh yeah. [Laughs] NN: Were you one of those participants, or did you…? TF: No, I tried to stay out of there. Okay. Maybe, you know, you walk through or try to drive through, if you could. I used to go to the fireworks on Venetian night. But we could see them from our backyard. So, it didn't really matter a whole lot. NN: All right. So, keeping in mind that this recording that we're doing today will be saved for a long time. There may be someone here listening to this in 50 years from now, what would you want them to know about your life in the community even right now? TF: Well, I'm not part of the community anymore, other than just coming back down to see how things are going. One of the things that I guess I've always kind of wondered about is why things... some of the stuff that they've allowed to do, have been allowed to do. Knowing what I know about some of the things, that kind of surprises me. There are houses built and a ball field behind the school now was built on a toxic runoff from a plating company. There's houses right on the top of this little runoff stream. That I don't I just don't understand how that was allowed, because... But, nobody thought about it when we went to school there, we used to walk right through the thing. [Chuckles] �NN: So that's behind the current Douglas Elementary School? TF: Yeah. Yeah. And that used to drain down into the gully is what we called it, into a creek that fed into the Kalamazoo River. But other than that, and we come. My wife and I come down every now and then and drive through the towns and stop and just look at the shops and stuff. NN: Do you have any favorite restaurants or current destinations down here? TF: Oh, the restaurants that are here now, I haven't been in. The restaurant that is on the corner right across from the ballpark. I don't know the name of it now. NN: In Douglas? TF: Yeah. It was just the Douglas Dinette when I grew up. NN: I think it's called the Everyday People Cafe now, but it had a different name then. TF: Yeah. Yeah. It was just the Douglas Dinette. And there was one another one that was out by where that little strip mall is. Was it... I don't even know the name of that. But that was Tiffany's Restaurant. That's not there anymore. And we used to when I was... My dad was a janitor, and every Saturday morning when he would get ready to go do something at the school and he'd come and wake me up, and I would be helping him do stuff at the school. And we'd always take a break at some point in the morning and we'd go to one of those two places and he'd get coffee and a donut and I'd get some milk or pop or something and a donut. 20:17 TF: And that was a standard operating procedure type of thing every Saturday morning. So. Yes. Now, the ones that we go to are in Saugatuck. It's the… we go to The Corner Bar, Wally's, Pumpernickel's. Those three places are the main ones that we go to. NN: So just circling back real quick to your father, then become the custodian at the new school and that opened? TF: Yes, he did. NN: Okay. TF: Him and my uncle. Because my mom didn't drive. So, she would have had to walk up there. So, then my uncle, Lawrence Monique, and my dad. Because my dad still worked second shift. So, he was there during the day doing stuff. And then my uncle was there at night. So, it was the same type of thing. He took care of everything during the day, then he cleaned up at night and on weekends on Saturday. Then they did the major projects if they needed to strip a floor and re-wax it or something because it was all tile. And that was done on Saturday. So, and then when they consolidated, then my �dad was a for a time a part-time custodian over at the Saugatuck School. But then that was just for a couple of years, and then it stopped. NN: Do you remember when they opened the new school? You were a student, you were in third grade, I think. TF: Yes. Mrs. Lineman. NN: Okay. Do you have any... I mean, that building is very different from the now the old school. How did that feel as a student? Was there anything particularly different that you recall from going to old new building? TF: We had a gym that we could play on when it was raining and you went into the gym and played basketball, or... Usually, we would divide it up in half, then the boys were on one half and the girls were on the other half. So that we didn't have to do. The girls that have to do what we wanted to do and we didn't have to do what they wanted to do. [Laugh] TF: But there were different things that happened at that school that were. I don't know if you'd call them unique, but they were fun at the time. Bill Allen was a newscaster for a TV station in Grand Rapids and he lived out on the lakeshore. And about one day a week, he would come in at noon. And we would arrange because the desks weren't permanent in place, they were movable, so we would form them in the shape of a U. And he would sit he would get the teacher's chair because it was on wheels and he would we would play chess and he would just play everybody. And he'd just go from board to board to board to board and just play chess all noon. So that was different. NN: Were you any good at chess? TF: No, not particularly, but it was fun. I yeah, I never I didn't really study it or anything. I played it, but it was. It didn't it wasn't one of those things where I was super competitive and had to win or anything like that. It was just fun, fun to do. NN: Sure. Okay. I think we're getting close to wrapping up here. Would you have any advice for a younger person who might be listening to this interview? Any thoughts? TF: Well, I just from my childhood and stuff, if it's anything growing up here like it was, then this is a great place to grow up, it's small. Like I said back when I grew up, just about everybody knew everybody, and you kind of looked out for each other. I hope that it's the same way now, but I don't know that for sure. But that would be nice if it would be. So other than that. Yeah. That was... It was a nice place to grow up. 25:01 NN: Good. Anything else, any other stories or anything that you'd like to share that I got to ask? �TF: That's the thing. I'll probably think of some on my way home. [Laugh] Yeah, that's there's always stuff that pops into my head that I talk to people about. Now there's a thing that we do. A bunch of us guys that graduated from high school in the same general time frame, we get together once a month for breakfast down here. And, that's always interesting, we rehash all our old memories and old stuff that we used to do. TF: One of the things that I do miss that I used to do, you used to spend a lot of time growing up after school and after sports things. There used to be a place in Saugatuck called the Soda Lounge. And we used to hang out there a lot. That was... that's not there anymore. NN: No, but I think we have a portion of the old malt machine has come to us, and it's in our collection. TF: Really? NN: Here at the History Center. TF: People, people always you know, people talk about the difference in terms from one area of the country to another where pop or soda. Well, when I was growing up, we'd go to the Soda Lounge, you got a soda, which was different than pop. So, if you wanted like a Coke or something, that was pop. But if you wanted a soda, that could be any flavor you wanted it, so... And that they would mix it right there? They would make it with one of those handle things that looked like a swan's neck, and you made a soda. So that to me, when people said soda, how are you making a soda? TF: There's just all this stuff growing up here. There is a softball team that was sponsored by the Douglas Athletic Club who used to play downtown. Used to go down, watch them, played Little League Baseball down there. And Ev Thomas used to broadcast. There was a building behind home plate that they used to put big speakers up on the roof, and he would announce the Little League Bay games or the softball games. There was always Ev Thomas. NN: Was he a local? TF: Yeah, he was a kind of a unique person. He was a real estate salesman. He's been dead for a long time and he was born on February 29th, so he was one of them guys. It was only four years old or whatever. [All laugh] NN: Yep, a leap year baby, huh? TF: Yeah. So, he always used to say he was one of the youngest captains in the army in World War II. [Laughs] He wasn't a few number of birthdays. He wasn't very old. NN: Right. All right. Well, if you think of additional stories, you know where to find us. OK. And at this moment, Tom, I will thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your memories with us and for sharing your time today. This will conclude the interview. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-FosdickT_02_2018-06-02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fosdick, Charles Thomas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-06-02 Title A name given to the resource Tom Fosdick, part 2 (audio interview and transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource The second part of his interview, Tom Fosdick describes his experiences with the school system and playing sports. He also discusses summer jobs, cross-state school trips, and his family and their role as school janitors. He also explores changes to the region. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Nietering, Nathan (interviewer) Gollanek, Eric (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1dbb661ca4daa308cba5c904ef96b3bc.mp3 602a83006948cb7feaa93353dd0aefb6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/97099fc5544c9b31650eb007e53e1908.pdf ce5309c965cebd94b193f9cdde641470 PDF Text Text Tom Fosdick interviewed by Nathan Nietering and Eric Gollanek June 2, 2018 NN: All right. So this is Nathan Neetering interviewer, Eric Gollaneck, interviewer and we are here today with Charles Thomas Fosdick at the Old School House in Douglas, Michigan, on June 2nd, 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. We're interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences in the Saugatuck Douglas area. Can you please tell me your full name and how to spell your last name? TF: A full name is Charles Thomas Fosdick- F O S D I C.K. NN: And you go by Tom? TF: I go by Tom. NN: All right, let's see. Do you use any special accents when spelling or saying your name? TF: No. NN: OK. Didn't think so. So, would you like to ask the first question? EG: Yes. Tell us, you kind of came in to check out the school building. And just interested to hear more about where you grew up and experiences. TF: Well. Yeah, I've like I said, I tried to get in here before, I didn't know when it was open for the public to come in because last I remembered, it was an apartment complex. So, it was private. NN: The Old Schoolhouse building. TF: Yeah. Yeah. I grew up right next door. 112 Center Street. And my parents were the custodians in this school as long as I remember. And, just going to school here for. Kindergarten, I think through the second grade, I was in third grade at the school after they built that. NN: What were your parents’ names? TF: Well. My dad's first name was Charles. But he went by Fuzzy. All right. That was a nickname he got. I don't know when and. My mom was Josephine. NN: Okay, and they were both custodians of the school? TF: Yeah, pretty much they my dad worked second shift, so he was here during the day and then she would come over and sweep and dump the trash and stuff like that. At night, and we usually came with her, my two sisters and I. �NN: Did either of your parents have any other jobs in the community? TF: I don't think technically they did know no, but my dad... Growing up in Douglas, everybody knew everybody. So, everybody did whatever, you know. He was on the fire department. He did other stuff, just around town. So, they were both part of the Douglas Athletic Club, which was where the library is now. And he was president for a while, and they ran the summer athletic programs and stuff. They were sponsors for that. So, just that kind of stuff. NN: So you said you attended kindergarten through second grade in this building, that would have been in the mid 50s? TF: Yes. NN: OK. TF: You know, I was born in 49. NN: OK. All right. Do you still reside in Douglas? TF: No. NN: Area? TF: Well, I went through high school in Saugatuck and then I went to Navy and then after that and came home and got married, and we live on the north side of Holland right now, but I come down here a lot. NN: What service did you do in the Navy? TF: I was aircraft hydraulics mechanic. For four years, ‘68 to ‘72. NN: Where you stationed any place interesting? TF: No, not really. NN: Okay. TF: Norfolk, Virginia, and Milton, Florida, were my two main bases. But then traveled a little bit. NN: Norfolk is a large naval base, right, naval facility, shipbuilding facility area. TF: Yeah. EG: What… Tell us a bit more. Just thinking back to your childhood, other memories, you had, vivid memories of the neighborhood, the school... �TF: Well, when I was having my picture taken, I was telling the photographer that where you've got the gardens. Just off here to the side, we had a small ballpark there that we played baseball there and then, a little bit further to the west, there was a little hill with trees on the edge of the hill and on the other side between that hill and what used to be The Tara restaurant, there was another place to play ball, and that's where the older kids played. 5:07 TF: It was more of a laid out type of thing, and they would play over there, and that was pretty much all... We had the playground equipment that was on the other side of the school of Merry-Go-Round, a slide and teeter totters.And that was all that was there. NN: That was on the side toward your house? TF: Right. NN: OK. TF: And. Memory from a teeter totter I got. My cousin and I were on there one just in the summer one time, and he jumped off while I was up in the air and came down a split my head open up metal handle. [Chuckles] NN: Right. So. So you were obviously injured to some extent. Do you remember where you were taken to get patched back up? TF: Just home. NN: Back home, and that was OK? TF: At the time, Dr. Coxford was a doctor and he lived out down towards the lake shore. So that was where his office was. The hospital is across the street, across the highway, Bluestar. It's a hotel now. NN: The Kirby, yep. TF: Yes. NN: Were you born at the Kirby House? TF: Yep. NN: Were you, okay. TF: And my sisters. NN: What years were they born? �TF: Oh great. [Laughs] NN: About? TF: I have an older sister that's about two years older than me, and then a younger one was around ‘54. I think she was born. NN: Okay. And they were all born at the Kirby House? TF: Yeah. NN: Can you tell us a little bit about the fire slide on the back of the old schoolhouse? TF: The two? Yes, there was just a place that we used. We were told not to go in it, but we said it didn't matter. We did anyway and just used it as a slide, because you can go up there and there was a little platform at the top and you could sit and kind of hide from people if you wanted to. Just slide down it. You got filthy because the inside of that thing was metal and so, everything you wore up there got covered in metal dust. NN: So, do you recall sliding down feet-first or head-first or both? TF: Both, mostly feet-first, though, because there was quite a drop at the end. NN: Oh, yeah? TF: Yeah. It wasn't very close to the ground. [All laugh]. NN: So. All right, so tell us. You said you were here from kindergarten through second grade. Which teachers did you have while you were? TF: I just had Mrs. Stroud. Mrs. Stroud. She was the only one I had. The only other teachers that I remember were Mrs. Haddaway. She had the room right next door, would have been right next on the ground floor. But, I don't remember the name of the teacher that was up on top with the upper grades. Can't remember her. Didn't have nothing to do with it. So, I don't remember. But, Mrs. Haddaway stayed with the school system all the way till we consolidated with Saugatuck because Douglas was an independent and when the kids… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-FosdickT_01_2018-06-02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fosdick, Charles Thomas Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-06-02 Title A name given to the resource Tom Fosdick, part 1 (audio interview and transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource The first part of a longer interview, Tom Fosdick discusses early memories about the Saugatuck-Douglas area. He describes his time at the Old Schoolhouse and playing with his friends on the school properties. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Nietering, Nathan (interviewer) Gollanek, Eric (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/38ba2e0a5930a9772f09beaadc728b78.mp3 defe30c84d17c3b7a926a6098595e49e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8e158f15afa2232df817176112e88ffa.pdf 4048f04b0b892e81afe14f2c2ac7221a PDF Text Text Anne Corlett interviewed by Sharon Bower June 4, 2018 SB: Hi, this is Sharon Bower and we're interviewing Anne Corlett. Anne, tell me, when was the first time you came to Saugatuck? AC: Probably as a baby, because my grandparents came as children separately. And then my father grew up coming every summer and my grandparents owned a big old farmhouse. So, we would come every summer from long before I was born. SB: When’s the first, what’s the first memory? AC: I was born in 60, I would say probably. I remember Easters. I know it's not summer, but we would come up for Easter. My grandparents would put on a big Easter weekend. We'd all fit. They had four children. They were 14 grandchildren. We all fit in that big farmhouse. And I remember walking on the frozen lake and, you know, Easter egg hunts and that. AC: But the summer, you know, they're all summers blended together. As you know, most of the days are on the beach. I probably I remember. I remember my sixth birthday. That might be one of the earliest. That's August 1st. McVeigh's Store was down... So we're on Lake Shore Drive, about a quarter mile north of Center Street. And McVeigh's Store was just that much further down. And I was old enough to walk by myself. And back then they had a post office. So, on my sixth birthday, I went to see if I got any mail, which I didn't. But I always kind of found some change around, you know, a nickel or a quarter or some pennies. And so, there was penny candy. So, it's always worth. That's a big memory. But all those beach days all meld together. SB: And, what do you remember about the area so much? I mean, was it just the water, the beach, the shops? I mean, it's changed a lot now. AC: Oh, we almost never we almost never went downtown sometimes maybe for ice cream at Around the Corner. I think that was there. That... what's now Kilwin's was a big store that sold like fabric and thread. I'm sure it sold a lot more. But as a little kid, I'd go with my older sisters who were loved to sew and we'd go to that big, huge building on that corner of. It's like kitty corner from the. From the ... SB: Drug store? AC: Yes, we are all.... SB: The drug store, wasn't there? AC: No, it was there. I just don't remember it being much of anything. SB: Did you go to church at any of the churches here? AC: No, no. I'm a pagan. [Laughs] �SB: Grandma? Family. AC: My grandmother. No. I don't remember them going to church. But. But I do. I'll tell you what. The Chain Ferry was a big event and I had older cousins and we would walk across the golf course, West Shore. It would take a long time, walk to The Chain Ferry and get into town that way. That was a whole day activity. And back then, right at the Chain Ferry where Wick's Park is now, there was a putt-putt course and I loved it. So, you know, you'd save up your money. You go with your older cousins, take the Chain Ferry, play putt-putt, get ice cream and go home. SB: What age do you think I was? AC: Probably anywhere between ten and fifteen. Sixteen. SB: So, what years? AC: So, that would be 1970-76, I would say. Yeah. So, downtown was pretty sleepy. If it was a beautiful beach day, nobody was downtown and we were lucky. AC: We had our own beach so we would walk down. You know, big memory is just going to the beach and spending most of the day, like I would wake up, put on my bathing suit, have breakfast and go to the beach and spend all day come up, you know, climb trees, find cousins, because by then we had several houses and so different cousins would come. My grandparents built one. Sold it. Bought this big old farmhouse. That's before I was born. CAPTA bought a different house. My grandmother's parents had built a house across the street. Those are all still in our family now. So now we're fourth. Well, I would be third generation, but we all have kids. So, there's four generations that are using that still, same property. SB: Where were you grandparents from? AC: Super cool. They're both from Oak Park, Illinois. They used to take the steam steamship across in the summer. My grandfather would come and camp on the property that my grandmother's parents eventually bought and built on. And that property was super cheap. I bet they well, relative to other property of the time because he couldn't grow anything on it. It was right on the beach. Nobody wanted. Isn't it crazy? And so that was probably in 1910, or something that they bought it. That was right across it. We still own it. It's still in my greater family as I said. 5:04 AC: Now there's 14 owners of because it's my generation. SB: And where were you living at the time? �AC: We were also a suburb of Chicago, River Forest. Well, my grandparents were River Forest too. And I say, Oak Park over. We would drive over. Mom would fill this station wagon. We'd pack in. She was very relaxed. There were six of us. We'd pack in pillowcases and our pillowcase would be our pillow for the ride up. I don't remember because 196 wasn't built then. At a certain point, you'd be driving probably what's now Blue Star. And you'd see as soon as you saw sand dunes, you'd be like, "Ugh, really close." But it would still be 40 minutes. There's probably like a four hour drive or more from Chicago. SB: Did your cottage have indoor plumbing? AC: Yes. Not when they bought it. They bought it. It used to be like a B&B, which back then. What's it called? Boarding house. When they bought it, it had an outhouse. They changed that into like an ice shed. And then they tried to run it as a boarding house. So, they made a his and hers bathroom out of one of the bedrooms, which were still there until the farmhouse, which is what we call it, had a big fire in the 90s. And then we had to remodel, which was nice. But anyway, but yes, there was indoor plumbing in this, you know, by the 60s for sure. SB: And what did you do in the evenings? AC: Games, cards, Scrabble. So, because cousins were often around, my sisters are enough older where I didn't really hang out. But I would go to my cousin's cottage or we'd drift around. So, my parents felt like it was super safe, and it was. And so, we'd drift, you know, from at least the age of 12, I could drift in the evening even and go see what the other Corletts were doing. And they might be playing charades or some other game, multigenerational games all the time. AC: Occasionally, and then every once in a while, my mom, who was a big party giver, would have like about once a year she'd have an art auction and she'd invite anyone who wanted to come in the neighborhood. And it was for dinner and your ticket to dinner was a piece of art you made. And usually, you know, it's all ages. So, it just be anything. It was a clothesline art show and then they'd had that hung clothesline in the dining room. They'd hang them all up and she'd make a big part of chili or something. And then we'd have an art auction, a penny auction at night. You know, that was great. SB: Did you contribute art? AC: Always, sure. I've always done. Ah, I'm a painter. SB: I know you were. What ways did you start? AC: Well, I would. Oh, well, we were always doing projects and stuff. I don't think I took art seriously probably until high school, till I was 15, maybe. SB: Did you paint while you were here during the summer? AC: Not till college. Not until... which is still the 70s. I went to college in 78. So yeah, I would watercolor all the time. My grandmother, that's Helen Corlett, was a water colorist. She used to �go to Oxbow all the time. Occasionally, I think probably twice in my life, I took a class at Oxbow as a young person, younger than teenager, like eight or nine, once or twice, maybe 10. SB: What was Oxbow like then? AC: Oh, it's just really just like a quiet, sleepy little, you know, that old fart, you know, the old Singapore hotel or whatever that is that, of course, that was there with its cricketing floor. So that hasn't changed. And they had little workshops and those little buildings. I think I did ceramic. I do remember doing ceramics one time. I was pretty young, though. I don't remember a whole lot. You know, it wasn't till I was an adult where till I took another class in 2000. SB: But you had to drive up there now? AC: Yes. Yes, we drove. So, my grandparents used to sail here. We always drove. We would come because it was my grandparents’ house. We we'd get three weeks in the summer, so we'd come for three full weeks. My dad would come up on the weekends and then right around when I was in high school, so in the mid 70s, maybe even early 70s, my grandpa bought another house and things happened so that we could be up there longer. And they moved to this little cottage behind that eventually became my mom's. AC: So, we would have three full weeks. It was just heaven. And then later we'd have most of the summer come up. Venetian Night was the height of every summer. AC: Oh, when I was another birthday memory and I might have been turning six. And my mom. I might have been five though, because I remember my sister gave me a purse full of candy. Best present ever. But that year we had all my cousins, different cousins on my mom's side who would go to South Haven in the summer. Just totally a different nut, you know, and my mom's side anyway. 10:06 AC: And they all came for my birthday party. And then mom said, "Honey, I've arranged some fireworks for your birthday." And it was Venetian Night, because my birthday was so close. She just pretended that was my birthday. So, of course, that's why I think I have a real healthy selfconfidence. SB: You thought the fireworks were for you? AC: Yes, I did. I really did, so I had to be only like five. AC: But we would go to the yacht club. My grandfather Corlett, Webster, was one of the very first members there. SB: And it’s the same location? �AC: Same location. You know, recently it's been built up, but it was just like this sleepy little cottage. It was great. And we would just go, you know, we'd lined the docks to watch the fireworks. It's huge. Back then, there was not a Fourth of July fireworks, much less, you know, New Year's Eve. It was just a Venetian Night and the parade of boats. You know, as a kid, I would hear while my parents were having. AC: So, the big thing is on the weekends during the week, there was no schedule. We floated around the house. It was just great on the weekends, a little more of a schedule because my dad was in town and there was always a major cocktail hour. And the kids. You know, I don't know what I did except listen to the dirty jokes. as they kind of got a little buzzed. AC: You know, all the stories on there were always stories like of like of the wild downtown, especially in Venetian Night. You know, we were supposed to stay away because the bikers were coming in town. And I do remember motorcycle, you know, tons of motorcycles parked in front of The Sandbar. SB: But you didn't go downtown? AC: I… Not... Not when... SB: Bikers? AC: No, no. I mean, not really. I couldn't. I was too young. You know, if we're talking 60s and 70s. By the 70s, I suppose I... but I didn't really spend... You know, evenings in the summer, we would go to the beach. And when I was old enough, go to beach fires. And back then, you kind of you could have a beach fire, or you could just look either way down the beach and say, "Huh? Are they having a beach fire there? Is there one in Shorewood, you know." Then we walked out. AC: Are we covering all the questions? Now, I know you're doing great. SB: You're fine, fine. AC: OK. All right. So, when I got older, so I was so like I would say by 73, when I was 13, I also was friends with other people on the lakeshore, the O'Donnells, or, you know, like 10 kids, the two oldest were my age. Chris O'Donnell, you know, the actor, one of them, but he was a baby then. The Quirks were across the street. There were you know, so there were all these people. We kind of had a gang my age that did the whole beach fire circuit. AC: So, you'd if maybe we would have it on my beach. It was usually my older cousins who would do it, or you'd walk down there might be one five houses down. There might be, north of us is Shorewood. That was always a huge gang. Some of those people became lifelong friends and, you know, like Tag Werneck, lifelong friend from beach fires. There's something about it. And so, we'd go down and there was always beer, but... SB: So, someone would build a fire on the beach? �AC: Yes. And I remember foraging for wood on the beach for beach fires people and bring logs down from their house. There was wood or you'd pick the dry beach grass and you'd you know, that was a big adventure. You learn to go to the bathroom in the beach grass, really young because you don't wanna go back up to the house. SB: All the way up there? AC: Yeah. SB: Because it was a hill, right? AC: Yes. Lots of steps. SB: Yep. AC: So, evenings were pretty much fun. And there was beer. You know, I was pretty careful till about well, maybe when I was 15, maybe 16. I'd have one beer, whatever. I got caught once and a lot of trouble. I was grounded for two weeks in the summer. SB: Your parents caught you? AC: Yeah. I came in and my mom's like… You I actually I had snuck out and it came back and she came up to my bed and I was like pretending I was asleep. She's like, "This is your ticket back to River Forest." But I knew she was faking. She didn't want to go back. But I was grounded for two weeks. SB: And it was that mean you had to stay in the house? AC: I couldn't go out at night. So, my friends, my cousins, they come by, they report. They go out. They come back. They report. It was kind of fun, actually. I wouldn't tell my mom that. SB: Did you ever go to Douglas at all? AC: Douglas was... There was a little grocery for a while. You know, I think that was Terry Byrne's father. But that's when I was really young. The Newsstand was always there and the post office. And that's all I remember about Douglas. The library back then, the library was downtown Saugatuck on Butler Street. AC: And one of my mom's really good friends was Bill Allen. He was a newscaster for WOOD TV-8, and they had been family friends, so she'd known him since a kid. 15:00 AC: And he lived. They lived on Campbell Road, which, you know, backs... It was pretty close to us. You could cut across a golf course or whatever. And why did I bring him up? Why did you just ask me about? Oh, no. Oh, no. I thought of the library. He was somebody was instrumental �in getting that library together. So, I think it came together in the 60s because I kind of remember that it was Brandon... SB: Where was it at in Saugatuck? AC: It was on Butler Street, like where... Just down from Landshark's. Like where it is where it is. It later became The Newsstand. I remember when The Newsstand was there. No. Yeah. Right now it's like American Spoon, or something. SB: Yes. AC: Yes. That was a library. SB: A one-story? AC: Yes, just one story. AC: I remember going with my cousin, Steph Higgins. She was a huge reader, four years older, loved her death, followed her everywhere and she went to the library. She took me there once and I had never been. And she knew where every book was. She was such a voracious reader. So, I would go to. And so that was very much fun. But I would go down to her cottage across the street, which was musty, musty, musty. And they had paperbacks like... That was another thing. Tons of reading. And they had paperbacks lining their bookshelves. And she had read every single one, like at least twice. And so, you'd pull out one, you know, it was like a great little secret. AC: Also, they had a huge collection of Archie comics, like they had the biggest. So, we'd sit on the porch and read Archie comics. And, you know, it was you could see the lake from their cottage. So, the breeze would come in. You'd be reaching, reaching Archie comics. SB: Did you like Veronica or Betty? AC: Of course, Betty. Veronica was a bitch and Archie was kind of a dweeb that couldn't like Reggie. Reggie was a jerk. Remember Archie? Wasn't it great? SB: Yes, I do remember them. AC: And then the neighbor next to them on the beach, Debbie Quirk. She was... She had two older sisters. And she she was kind of advanced. She was the first one that got me a beer, you know. And she they had love comics. So, you know, with a big tears, you know. I mean, it's very funny now thinking about like I was like, "Love comics, sort of dicey, you know, compared to Archie." [Chuckles] AC: And then Aunt Peg Higgins', who had been a Corlett who married a Higgins. There's a lot of double marriages in my family. But anyway, two Corletts married two Burmans. Two Corletts married Higgins. Cousins married brothers. �AC: But anyway, Aunt Peg. May she rest in peace. She just died last year. She she was an artist and she had art projects going all the time. So, I would go there and do whatever project they were doing. They were always different, all kinds. We would go we would also go to the beach and a bunch of us would play Star Trek on the beach. I was young, so I had to be the guy with the accent. I couldn't be Spock or, you know, I can't remember his name, not what's supposed to be. SB: How did you play Star Trek? AC: I don't know. We ran around and we'd hide behind Lost Rock and so... Lost Rock, do you know where that is? That's like south of our property. That was a big thing. Walk to Lost Rock and back. You could get you… Sometimes we would dig clay out of the bank there and bring it back and make like clay stuff on the beach. AC: What else? The rock that's at Douglas Public Beach, which we called Buffalo Rock. It's actually a little off of Douglas Public, but we would go there and get washed off by the waves. There was one rock and I found out recently that was way out in the water. But we called it Moby Dick. That was at our beach that we would find every summer. In fact, I would kiss it before I went home. SB: It's still there? AC: Yeah, I just found it not that long ago. We swam and swam and swam. SB: But that that rock was out of the water? AC: It was never out of the water. SB: OK, so you kissed it in the water? AC: Yes. Yeah. Oh, Daddy kissed. Yes. But it was so big. Even you know how the water changes so much. But you could find it every year. My cousins had a giant intertube. We spent hours on that in the water. SB: Then there wasn't any concession stand there or anything like there? AC: No. SB: It was just beach and people's property? AC: Right. Right. SB: Was there Oval Beach there? �AC: Oval Beach. We never... Well, we would walk down and as kids were, you know, the big thing would be walked to the lighthouse and back. And I remember when. We were walking down my cousin Mary and I, but we were 14, so that's being the 74. And we were walk into the lighthouse and back. And we're just walking. And Mary's like, “Anne, Anne, I think I see a naked man swimming." AC: And I'm like, "No, no, no." AC: And she goes, "Yes!" And then we're walking along. And there was a sand sculpture of a penis. [Both laugh] SB: Oh, jeez. AC: So, she's like, "I think that's a penis." AC: I was like, "No, it isn't." She was a year younger than me. She was always freaking out. 20:01 AC: "Come on. I don't think we should go. I don't think we should." And we went and we just kept walking. And most most of the men in there were in the beach grass and stuff. But there were I think there were some naked men swimming, but it was nothing. She was a little more shocked. than I was. AC: We go to the lighthouse, which, you know, isn't really a lighthouse. It's just that thing that's still the same. SB: The big lighthouse wasn't there? AC: Right. I don't know if it's the same, but it was just like a thing on the end of the pier there. And we come back and there was a man taking money. But you could always walk by because it's legal to walk by. But we came back and she told her mom and the police came to talk to us about it. “What'd you see?” AC: Because her mom, her mother was really a prude. She was really freaked out. SB: If you had... Were you cognizant of the gay community being here at all? AC: Not in here at all. Oh, yes. But not… not that whole beach. And and honestly, I can say this, maybe this because I'm an adult and I don't have a problem with anybody doing that, but or being gay or anything else like that. But I don't remember it bothering me, really. At all, because we still would do the whole walk. But Mary, it did freak out, Mary. AC: But I do remember. OK. Back to when we would sit on the front porch, I would sit and listen into, you know, these conversations as the adults. And I had adult sisters who who were married, you know, when I was very young. So, all our weddings, almost all six weddings were �up here in the summer or the spring. Not all of them, but I'd say four out of six at least. I remember the story of my dad and one or two of my brother-in-law's going to The Blue Tempo just to see if it was really gay and it was. SB: Where was the Blue Tempo? AC: The Blue Tempo was... And so that was the big talk. There's a gay bar. The Blue Tempo was... as you come into Saugatuck on I guess it's Culver now. It was on the left on the river. It was kind of you had to kind of go down. There was a sign. Blue Tempo. And I think it was where those were the condos are now. I'm not exactly sure. And so so ever after that, it's like, oh, The Blue Tempo isn't a myth. It really is gay. Now, that story could have been just a story because they were always laughing. But that's the only... SB: It was a wild town in those days, was it not? AC: Very wild. Yeah. That's why we weren't allowed to go in town, especially Venetian weekend. That was like. Up for grabs. Very well. Now, when I was older, I went to college in the fall of 78 in Wisconsin. AC: And then in the summer of 79, I worked at Coral Gables, which is funny because everybody who ever summer-ed here worked at Coral Gables, you know, and I. SB: As a waitress? AC: No. Yes. But it was just in The Galley. The Galley was a breakfast place where The Corner Bar is now, OK. And I worked with... I just talked to this woman who lives here, who grew up here. Maria Dross. Yes. She. She and I worked together there. And she remember the names of everybody. AC: I remember Bob Berger was the manager. Like Mike Johnson, who is older than I am. But he wasn't really in charge. His dad was still alive. And I think his brother was still alive, too. And but Bob Berger was managing and he had kind of come in and sort of scare us, you know, with his big size, a big voice. But Murt made donuts every morning and we'd have Frank Dennison and a couple other guys would come in every morning and have their coffee and donuts. And you just hoped you waited on them because you usually get a really good tip. But, you know, I was just 19. SB: And this was just a part time job or-? AC: This was a summer job in between in college. SB: Every day or just part time? AC: I can't remember. Probably. Yeah. But I mean, it was a breakfast lunch place, so I never. So it was probably part time, yeah. Yeah. My dad never wanted us to work at night downtown in the �restaurants. He's like, absolutely not. But then I got to be friends with the people who worked there. AC: So then even though I was... So, it was legal to drink when you were 18 in Michigan, when I was 18, but when I was 19, it changed to 21. So, I couldn't. But I was used to it because I was in Wisconsin and you could drink. So, my friends who worked there would get me into The Crone stuff. They weren't so tough with ages back then, but sometimes I'd go to a party. The guys who worked there used to live in apartments under what is now The Annex. Occasionally I go to a party there, you know, get in trouble because I come home late smelling like beer. SB: Did you walk home or did you go? AC: I had a bicycle. I rode my bike every day to work. SB: Oh, wow. AC: From the farmhouse to Coral Gables is, you know, four miles. 25:01 AC: Not that much. Five me. Oh, no. Two and a half or three. SB: You have to go down Blue Star, though, right? AC: Yeah. You were down Blue Star. That whole summer, there was a bird that went after my head for the hair, I think, right going over the bridge. Every time it was free, I finally learned to wear a hat because back then, nobody wore helmets. Yeah, so. So, by the time I was a teenager, I was spending time downtown. So, that's in the 70s. SB: And what do you remember about the Saugatuck downtown, then? Was it mostly restaurants, shops? You know, there were some shops. Ice cream stores, or what? AC: The only real, you know, the first like real store was East of the Sun, which was on the corner there, kind of right across from Land Sharks. I forget what's there now. And then across from that was Sue... Oh, you know her. She died young, unfortunately. She was a great golfer. Sue Lewis, Sue and Stubbe Lewis owned East of the Sun. And then they started across the street the like real preppy clothing store, Brigadoon. And those were all those stores. AC: Oh, and The London Shop. Those are the only clothing stores. So do you remember The London Shop? All those old ladies who weren't that old, but they look so old to me. They were the reading glasses on, fancy little stuff, you know, necklace around there. And there were two. In my view, little old ladies, and they had, you know, like really traditional classic clothing. It was called The London Shop, and it was kind of probably where the oh, The Butler isn't there anymore. You know, For the Love of Shoes, where The Butler used to be. It was right in that first block. And we would go there. Mom would drag me there because she wanted to go and only because it wasn't my clothes. It was mostly adults, but they were there a long time and they �were the only. They were the original clothing store in my memory. And then he's then Brigadoon came later. And also, there was a needlework needlepoint shop next to that, I kind of remember. SB: Restaurants? Did you go to any restaurants? AC: Well, The Butler was always there. And same with Coral Gables. But we never went out. But what you want to know where we would go? Oh, The Red Barn. Love The Red Barn. We went as kids. My grandmother went to every show and she would take us as kids out... SB: Now, these were plays they did? AC: Yeah, the plays at The Red Barn. SB: The one that's still there? AC: Yes. SB: By the Belvedere? AC: Yes. And they were top notch. You know, it's they were nearly as good as Mason Street is now because they had someone's gonna know the name of the guy from New York City who brought the New York cast over. And he did. I'll never forget Man of Lamancha. And I think I was about 14, you know, to be like 73 or 4 or 5. And I went twice and it just, you know, drowning in my own tears. It was so good. AC: But those show and there'd be a couple locals. And then Bert Tillstrom, the puppet guy. He always had Saturday afternoon things. We spent a lot of time at The Red Barn. And it was as a treat. If my grandmother took us, we'd go to The Elbowroom first. So that's where that was a restaurant back then. And that's where The Southerner is now. SB: Yes. AC: Yes. Right. It was The Elbowroom. SB: And then it was The Elbowroom again, but long after. AC: But way back in the 70s. Elbowroom. And I always ordered spaghetti because my mom never made noodles. But anyway, so we'd go to that. And I don't think they served alcohol, which so we'd be like if my grandmother took the grandkids, we'd go there and then we'd go to the show. And she always had lifesavers she'd passes and then there'd be an intermission and you'd go to. And that it was the same, of course, old building. It really hasn't changed much. And you go downstairs and they'd serve. Somebody made a cake. And, you know, there was kind of a concession. SB: There wasn't, they didn't have any air conditioner, right? �AC: No, fans. Seems like someone's word as hard as they are. SB: No. No. Because you didn't have... did you have air conditioning in your cottage? AC: No, still don't. This one I don’t get. We spent so much time on the front porch, which wraps around. It makes an L. And this is what always surprises me about new houses. Now that they don't have screened in porches, you know, you see these big, beautiful houses. My opinion, too big, but don't quote me, without a screened in porch. We spent so much time on the porches because that's where you get the breeze. You get wet from the lake. And then you'd sit in the breeze, you know, did a lot of climbing of trees, too, in a wet bathing suit. SB: What have you seen in terms of the changes here? Good and bad. AC: I felt very sad. And I remember my dad was just so sad when the first big condo thing went up. And I feel like the one... SB: Which one was that? AC: Well, I feel like it was the one right as you're first going into Saugatuck. I'm not sure that was the very first, but that was a first really big one. 30:02 AC: Oh, you know, Tara was a place we went to dinner, so that wasn't in Saugatuck, but it was over... Right here on Center and Bluestar. SB: Yes. AC: Yeah. It was up. It's so funny because there's so many condos there now. It was just one restaurant on the top of a hill, you know. And we went there all the time at both my grandmothers. My mom's parents also live. They ended up retiring up here, down by the wash out. Really close to Lake Shore Resort. Anyway, so, both sets of grandparents were around, which was lovely for me. But the The Tara, we went to with some frequency. SB: And your dad was upset about the condo because lost its charm? AC: It just made him sad. Right. It lost its charm. So, I think. And I'm sure there was some Tshirt shops. I don't really remember. I mean, we didn't shop the way people shop. Now, if you needed a pair of flip flops, which actually I don't think they were invented then, anyways. You know, something like that. Oh, we did Mount Baldy all the time. SB: Were there steps up to Mount Baldy? AC: Yes, there were steps. �SB: But at what age would you say this would be? AC: All through the 60s and 70s. We did. We'd go, we'd either we'd walk there, or we'd get driven and dropped off and we'd go up and down and we'd go up the stairs and run down the side, which you can still do. And there used to be a route rope swing on the other side. And I was never big enough to do that by the time it came down. But all my older cousins and siblings did. And then we go up and down and up and down. And then the last time we went up, we'd run down to the Oval and walk home on the beach. So that was great. We also toboggan it in the winter. SB: Oh, wow. AC: Scary. SB: From… From the top? Where Mount Baldy is? AC: From the top. Yeah. The top on Mount Baldy down the back. Actually, I did that with a boyfriend and that would be in 79 or so. Yeah. I'm glad I'm alive. That was something. SB: Do you remember how many steps it was in those days? AC: Well, it was the same steps that were here. You know, they rebuilt these not that long ago. But no, I have no idea. Numbers and I just don't... I can't remember any numbers. SB: Besides the condos, what other changes do you see? That you think were good or bad? AC: Let me just tell you about my family. It's a great story about my grandmother. Her husband, and they weren't married, so she was staying in the house. They ended up buying. They were residents of this boarding house. My grandfather, they were teenagers in like 15. And she told me this story after I got in trouble for sneaking out, which was really sweet. He came, threw stones on her window. They had they had a picnic breakfast. It was like before the sun rose and she snuck out and they went to Mount Baldy and climbed it to watch the sunrise. And there were no stairs then. But that would be like they were probably married in 1915.So that would be before 1912, or something. SB: She had to sneak out, though? AC: She had to sneak out too. So that was nice that she told me. That's true. I don't think they were drinking beer but. OK, let me see. SB: Did you have a boat or anything? AC: Yes, we had a boat. We still have it. It's a 1964 Boston Whaler. So, my grandfather, there was a lot of sailboat racing at the yacht club back then. My dad, my grandfather, my uncle. I never really learned. And I wish I had. I did not spend much time there, but we would go watch them race. And we had this little Boston Whaler. My Uncle Ted, Ted Corlett, did a lot of work �on the docks. You know, it was not fancy the way it is now. And he did a lot of the repair and he was just like. He's an engineer and he just loved to spend time doing it. So anyway, so we we had a really good slip right by the. And we had just a little seventeen and a half foot Boston Whaler. But we would waterski behind it. We waterski on the big lake or in Silver Lake. That hasn't changed really at all. It's funny, though, you go down the river. The houses are so big and fancy and they were just like little fishing shacks. AC: And I remember a lot all those little... Some are the same. SB: You would come from where the the yacht club was? AC: Yes. Down to the big lake. Down the river to... The cove was always a big thing. We would go as kids. We would go as teenagers. There's usually a party there. That whole thing that happens. Venetian weekend happened all the time. Well, not with a barge necessarily, but there are always boats there partying and getting sun. We spend time there too, or we go out in the lake and, you know, jump in the water when it was really hot. Way out there, which we still do. AC: OK. So changes. So the yacht club changing is a big thing, you know. I guess it's for the best. But I. I'm sad about losing the character that used to be there. It was very not fancy, which was lovely anyway. So that all. Same with all the condos. I think it's great. People can enjoy the area, but it's to me, it's lost a lot of that summer cottage thing. 34:58 AC: There's still some of those cottages on Park Street, and I just love them. And I hope that, you know, and I don't I never feel bad if somebody. I mean, I don't I don't disparage somebody putting money into the area. That's fine. But I it is. I miss that old. Like it was a sleepy little town that got a a little crazy in the summer, but it was just a sleepy little town. That was lovely. AC: I would say the Lake Shore hasn't changed a whole bunch, but I'm so lucky that we have a place, and that's remained the same. SB: You know, your grandmother's cotton grandmother's big barn or a farmhouse. AC: Yes, we called the farmhouse. SB: Yes. AC: Yeah. How’re we doing? SB: We’ve got time to talk. AC: OK. How much time to read? SB: An hour. OK. Yeah. And so, what... What other... You did, boating, swimming. You didn't do sailing. �AC: Well, I didn't personally race boats, but other people in my family did. But we did have a Sunfish on the lakeshore, which a lot of people used. I turtled at twice and then bent the mast. So, then I decided I was going to sail it anymore. But my Uncle Ted made surfboards like big heavy, almost like floating rafts. So, we did we'd just play in the water a lot. AC: Oh, I'll tell you another beach thing we did. And these are my creative older sisters. We did sand castings a lot. So, you get Plaster of Paris and a big bucket and then you get the sand wet. My oldest sister, Sue, was a master at it. You take something to make an impression in the sand. Maybe it's your hand. Or maybe it's like she loved to do impressions of, you know, like Mother Mary or I don't know. Stuff she found. And then you pour it. You make plaster with the lake water and you pour it in and let it harden. And then when you flip it out, it's a sand casting and we have him hanging all over. And I had my kids doing when they were a little. So that was a big beach tradition. And artistic. SB: So, you were, were always doing art, doing something artistic always? AC: That was that's how we kept busy. Never had a TV. Never, never had a TV there. Now we do. Which I don't like. But I think the men sort of overrode the new TV because they. Because of sports. SB: What do you think this place was special for you? AC: I mean, the family was there. Connection to family and connection to the lake. And, you know, I am always going to paint the lake. I I am so driven to connect to what what that how it makes me feel to be at the beach. And sometimes when I'm painting, I think all those hours. I mean, we used to lie in the sun and get sunburnt for hours. You know, baby oil or Copper Tone, you know, getting the perfect tan was really important. AC: And so, all those hours I spent on the beach, I did a lot of reading on the beach, too. And we would dig sand, sand castles, make, you know, drip castles. And, you know, there was all kinds of things we did. AC: But anyway, when I paint now, I think, oh, that's what all that time was like, stacking up my bank, like filling me up with all this information that I still need to get out canvas. I think that a lot. That's why I need to paint like the water I painted all the time, or the dunes, or the clouds. I mean, I'm so driven and you think I get tired of it, but I haven't get tired of it. SB: You say it has much changed since those days. AC: Right. Right. The dunes and the clouds. Dune Schooner rides, the same thing. I did him as a kid in the 60s, scared the death, scared me to death. I just took friends on them last year. They're really a lot the same. God bless them for keeping the dune rides. So Mount Baldy, the dune rise. That's all the same. I don't mind. I think it's kind of fun. �AC: The downtown has so many great restaurants. It really does. And it's fun. The bars, the restaurants are great. You know, the shops. I just I don't go to town when it's busy because it's too frustrating. SB: You live here, now. AC: Yes. SB: Now, how did you decide to do that? AC: 30 years now I've lived here. Well, because I married a person who who had a business here. He we met because he was my parents' dentist. So, I was living in Chicago in an art neighborhood, and they were frantic to get me married because I was an old maid, because I was 27. So, they introduced me to him and we hit it off and got married within a year. So, in 88 we got married and I moved here and I'm so happy I did because even though that marriage didn't work out in the long run, it was great. Well, it was great. And we have these wonderful kids, and it was wonderful raising the kids here. 40:02 AC: I loved being… I thought at first, I was afraid a little bit of such a small school system. But it's a stellar system. And you can I was on the school board. You could jump in with both feet and really make a difference. And I think a lot of parents do. I think it's so. So, I've lived for 30 years. So, even in the time I've lived here, it's changed a lot. AC: But especially since the 60s and 70s when I was growing up in the summer here, I think the lakeshore has changed the least, although it's real sad to see Westshore Golf Course gone. And I never really we would go we're right behind the 15th green. We would go in and, you know, put around, you know, goof around out there and we would have lemonade stands out there, made a lot of money, and then we would search for golf balls, sell them back to the golfers, and make a lot of money. I mean, really enough money to go to McVeigh's and buy candy. But the. But other than that golf course, you know, there's some big houses and stuff, but there's still a lot of cottages. And it's lovely. AC: It's so crowded. Like Douglas Beach is so crowded. You know, it's just for parking and stuff. Sort of too bad. But I'm so lucky. I know it doesn't matter to me. I think it's good if people can use it. It's I think that B&Bs are interesting, you know. And now it's AirB&B that that's brought so many more people. But I don't go in. I go into town to do yoga in the morning. I love there's some stores I love, but I don't go downtown in the summer. SB: And how would you compare Saugatuck-Douglas, to other places that you lived? Is it totally different? AC: Yes. SB: A little cocoon or what? How would you describe? �AC: Well, you know, I haven't lived too many other places. SB: You were in Chicago. AC: I was in a neighborhood of Chicago. I grew up in a suburb of Chicago. And then when I went to school in Madison, Wisconsin. But up north, I've spent a fair amount of time in a gallery up like in Harbor Springs. And I have a good friend in Traverse City. I've spent lots of time in Leelanau. I think I think Saugatuck, some of those towns way up north are kind of kind of still feel like Saugatuck used to. There's some big money, but mostly it's just local. I love that the farms are still close Here, you can go. And I love our artisan cheeses and, you know, like our like, Virtue's Cider and Fenne Valley and all these places. SB: And let's not forget Cranes. AC: Cranes. You know, I don't remember going as a kid. SB: You don't. remember it being here? AC: I don't remember it being here. SB: Picking apples? AC: It might have been here but I didn't do it as a kid. I can't. We always went to Pier Cove. We used to always go down there. No, I don't remember. SB: What was Pier Cove? Why did you go to Pier? AC: Just because it's a cool beach. SB: You don't like picking fruit here? Any of that stuff? AC: I didn't. I think my mom had too many kids to marshal around, but I took my kids picking fruit. But that would be in the 90s. Yeah. What else is big? Yeah, we put, you know, I think just hanging out outside, you know. We were talking about I was different from anything. SB: So how is it different from any place else? AC: Well, right now, the fact that it's a small town. Oh, it's very different because it's especially in the off-season, it has that wonderful small town feel where you drive in the gas station and you you wave at the owner, you know. AC: Now, I forgot. McGee, you know, from your car or you you know you know, the whatnot was always there. You know, the people there or whatever you see people, you know, all the time. It's a lovely small town, but it has so much sophistication. So even though sometimes people retired back then, now it's hugely a retirement community. And same with the gay �community, I think has has put roots down. They didn't just back then it was OK. There was a bar or two or whatever, and I don't really know. But now it's it's part of our bigger culture. AC: And I think there's such a wealth right now of of intelligence and experience and the willingness to volunteer. And so, this history center's amazing and our library is amazing. And, you know, our school system's amazing in part because of all the partnerships. You know, Rotary is amazing. I mean, there's just so much going on, I'm sure. And for all the SCA and Oxbow. All those things make it such a rich place to live. I don't think other small communities this size have that kind of, you know, at all. SB: Remember, this interview is going to be saved for a long time. AC: Yes. SB: Maybe 50 years from now. Somebody listens to it. What advice would you have for them or what would you tell them about this time? About this time right now? About your community and others right now? How would you explain it 50 years from now, it's going to be totally different. Probably. 45:06 AC: Well, I love this community and I don't think I ever want to leave. I like it. It's I think it's exciting that it's full of tourists in the summer. And I think it's delightful when it's just the people who live here year-round and some people live here, you know, come some people go away in the winter. That's a little different. I think that's delightful, too, to you know, I think we have a beautiful fabric. AC: We have our school, which is really strong and wonderful. And the and the teachers are amazing and the and the parents are amazing. So, we have her school. We have our businesses there. They're starting to dovetail more and more because some of the business owners like Landshark have their kids in the schools. You know, we have professionals living here and raising their families because now they can work remotely. And that's changed a lot. And I think that's lovely. Lots of people work from their home. And then we have the retired community. Or and or summer people who don't have children here, so maybe the gay community or just people that live here because they love it. It's beautiful and aren't necessarily connected with the schools. But then our connect and put all their energy in the historic society or that or the Center for the Arts or Oxbow or many others. AC: There are many other charitable causes like it just had that thing Paws for a Cause or Cause for a Paws or something, fundraising for the animals wide. I don't know exactly. But anyway, we have a great scholarship foundation and people give to that. There's Aware scholarships. Aware is another... So there's, there's all kinds of partnerships going on and. I think that's maybe one of the most lovely things about this community. AC: And then, of course, you have the lake shore and you just can't beat the beaches. And I hope I hope we always all have access to the beaches because they're amazing. And I think when I �stand and I'm painting or I'm looking out over the lake, I feel like it's timeless, like it's… it's the same as it was one hundred years ago. And it'll be the same in one hundred years. SB: Yeah. AC: Yeah. If it doesn't get polluted because of course they're going to let those oil pipelines through or something worse. SB: Yeah. So. So what advice would you give somebody 50 years from now if they were going to be living here or are thinking of living here? AC: I don't know. I mean, treasure it. Treasure it. It's beautiful. I hope it doesn't get out of the range of a regular person being able to afford to live here, you know, right now I live out of town. So, we raised our kids in town. And then when I became single, I bought a house out of town. And it's, it's not the country, but it's more affordable and still beautiful and still accessible to the town. So, I hope that I hope that that's still people are still able to live here and it doesn't price out. SB: And what's your favorite place to paint here? AC: You know, it's kind of might sound trite, but I love to go to the Oval. I love to go up in the dunes. And you can either look north where it's wilderness and dunes or you can look south on the beach with the people. Right now, I'm doing a whole series of people on the beach paintings. So much fun. So, I guess I still like to go to the beach to paint the most. AC: Dune State Park, there is another amazing resource, amazing resource. I go many days a week with my dog to walk her. So. That's a lovely place to paint and just to be. SB: In the park? AC: In the Dune State Park, I don't know how many acres, it's hundreds and it's mostly wooded. But then it has all those beaches too there. Gorgeous. But you need to be willing to walk a little to get there. SB: I need a compass. AC: You might need a compass. The trails aren't marked very well. SB: I could get lost. AC: You could get lost. Yeah. You have to know where the sun sets. SB: Figure, if I haven't asked you that, can you think of your memories of this town that you just remember standing out? �AC: You know, the docks that are along the river on the Saugatuck side of Lake Kalamazoo. You know, so in front of from the bottler all the way down to Wick's Park, those are pretty much the same. And I remember boats rafting off of each other on holiday weekends, and that just makes me so happy. I love to see it now. All the art fairs, I didn't bring that up. They were around. My grandmother did on the clothesline after she was part of the art club way back. It's still I just became a member. It's hopefully the art club will still be up in 50 years. 50:04 AC: And actually, they do a couple our fairs. And I just said, OK, I'm going to do it because I want to bring locals to it and to participate in and bring it closer to what it used to be, which was local people with their art, not just. And know commercial are people right now, visual artists like say. SB: Right. Right. AC: But the… So, the art club is another great resource. And there's a garden club or two. I don't really know. Anyway, and Oxbow. SB: Have you been back to Oxbow? AC: I love Ox by actually going to teach there the summer. I'm going to teach pastels. They have the art in the meadow classes. So that's not part of their accredited through the Art Institute. That's kind of more for locals. Oxbow’s fabulous. I can't believe how much the same it is. Even though they have new buildings and they've kept the old they've kept the feeling. It's really a wonderful, happy place. AC: You know, in the 60s and 70s, I was sort of a wannabe hippie. And I feel like, you know, your bare feet in the sand and you're wearing a halter top. Everybody else is wearing, you know, little cutoffs. I feel like that's still happening in Oxbow. Oxbow is timeless and that's lovely. And they have all those that Talmage words there. There's amazing art coming out of there. I hope that's still going in 50 years. AC: And if somebody was to here and live here, definitely go and spend time there and support it and get to know at. Because it's amazing and has been here, you know, a really long time. Hundred and fifty years or something. SB: OK for when you were a child and you would be coming up here for the summer? Well, what would be the thing that you would look forward to? AC: So, the whole thing was pure joy. Let me get one side. Pure joy. It was, you know, even the summers I worked or the summers I didn't work. It was just so it was just beautiful and it was safe. You know, it's kind of amazing. My parents just let me go. You were lucky to live in that time. I think so. And have the grandparents with the foresight, too. Yes. Oh, I can't tell you how lucky I am. I think that every day. I think that every day. �SB: Great. Thank you. AC: Well, thank you. It's been really fun and you're really good at that. SB: So glad to have preserved your history. I'm going to use it for people to understand what life was like. And we don't lose those memories. That is very interesting. It's really great. We’re done. Okay, turn that off. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-CorlettA_2018-06-04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Corlett, Anne Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-06-04 Title A name given to the resource Anne Corlett (audio interview and transcript) 2018 Description An account of the resource Anne Corlett describes her experiences as a summer cottage resident during the 60s and 70s. She recounts her experiences of the beaches, her connection to the arts and Oxbow, as well as her various experiences with the LGBT community. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bower, Sharon (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Gay bars Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/62f730f46af0d56face6c0801d345dae.mp4 8ed28ce186607426c2917e9fa924f180 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cd996ce62a08a4bb387094de17345219.pdf 64bc0901560300ec338b52685d4192bb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Lan Chi Le Length of Interview: 29:00 (00:00) JS: We’re here today with Lan Chi Le of Rockford, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State Veterans History Project. Now, can you start by telling us just a bit about your own background. For instance, where were you born? LCL: Well, my name is Lan Chi. I was born in Saigon, back in 1970. JS: And who were your parents? LCL: My mom is [Nah Phen] Li. She originate from My Tho City, that’s where she grew up from. And she has four brothers and four sisters, and they live in quite poor conditions, that she decided to move to the city, hoping that she could find a better job. And better pay. And when she moved to Saigon, back then, she meet my dad and that’s where she was working at, as a waitress. And that’s how she met my dad. My dad’s name is Joseph [Enab]. I know that he was there on a sub-contract, for about six months. His title, as far as I know, he worked for a company called GICC, for the Republic of Vietnam. His association was a Chief Management Officer. And it had something to do with pipeline, construct of pipeline. And pretty much road construction, that’s what he mainly do. (01:30) JS: Okay. Kind of a civil engineering job essentially. LCL: Yeah. JS: Now did your mother speak any English at that time? LCL: Um, she knew just a little bit. Enough to communicate verbally. Um, I guess that’s the only way to communicate with each other. And they know each other for just a short amount of time. Plus my mom just went to the city, so English was really tough for her at that time too. Yup, so that how it go. JS: Did she get a job with his company or did she continue to work in the restaurant, or what… LCL: Well, after she stay with him, she quit working. And just stayed around at home, and helping him out, and things like that. That’s pretty much it. JS: And then he was just there for six months and then he left? LCL: Yes. �JS: All right. But he did make some effort to recognize her as his partner there, whatever. You got some kind of documents? (02:29) LCL: Yeah, well, he knew that my mom got pregnant. That’s why before he left the country, he left behind his VIA number. Some kind of employee number. Along with, he gave my mom some money, to start a life there by herself, because he knew he wouldn’t be back. For some reason. Which I’m not quite sure why. And also, he give mom a document showing what he do and things like that, in case of someday I went looking for him. I would have all those documents set aside. JS: All right. Then what happened to her after he left? (03:12) LCL: When he left to go back to America, I think my mom was quite depressed. Because now she has given birth to me, she’s a single mom. But I guess, she has to go on with her life. She used the money and bought a house and raised me up in that house. Until the day we left in 1985. We still lived in that same house, in Saigon. JS: All right. So you were living in Saigon then for those early years of your life. Do you remember when the communist took over? Do you remember any of that, cause you were still pretty young. LCL: Yes, I was only about four, into five years old at that time. So too young for me to remember anything, but I did remember, or memorize one small event that I remember that one day when I was up in the balcony, upstairs playing. That must be right around, or just before the communists took over. There was one day where I see a lot of helicopters and jets flew by our home. I didn’t know why so many of them flew by, but I noticed that. And it scare me. Cause those engines were loud and there were many of them, not just one or two. Continuously, they fly right by our home. (04:33) LCL: Later I find out that we live twenty minutes away from the airport and with all the jets and the helicopters going on at that time, I think it’s just kind of a last minute before the communists took over. So they did some kind of wrap up or something. Over there. JS: Right. Cause the last of the American personnel were being evacuated and some of the Vietnamese were being brought out at that time, so you had an airlift out of the airport, and then the last part of it off of the roof of the US embassy there. So that was going on. All right. Now, but your mother was able to stay in her house, then, when the communists took over? They didn’t come and take it away from her? (05:09) LCL: They tried to threaten her, a few different times. Well, simply because I’m AmerAsian, half American, half Vietnamese, they used me as a target to suppress my mom. After the �communists took over, my mom had a hard time finding jobs. Anywhere. She just couldn’t be able to find anything. Um, simply because of me. Even my aunt, who lived together with my mom, also had a hard time finding a job too. Took her a total of about five years or more to be able to find a decent job in the hospital, but just as a receptionist or more like a security, by the gate. To admit patients in. And the reason she got that job was because she got a best friend that worked inside there, that get her in. Otherwise, finding a job for her would be impossible. Yep. (06:00) JS: All right. Now during that time, did you have problems getting things to eat? Or getting clothing? Things like that. Did you have enough money to survive? LCL: Well, my dad left behind probably not a whole lot of money. It, just enough for us to get a house, but, um, my mom have to find survival, someway, somehow. Right after 1975, our life was really really hard. I remember that we didn’t even have enough rice in the house to fulfill everybody’s needs. We had to substitute with yucca root. And sometimes yams and just a little bit of rice. Half of, a part of a meal of rice, but those meals. Or oatmeal. Just to get by. Yep. And so it was really really tough, the first few years after the communists took over. JS: All right. Now you’re living there for about ten years after they take over. Did you go to school during that time? (07:04) LCL: Yes, I was fortunate enough to attend school. Even though we were really poor. But I loved school anyway, so I went to school daily. And it’s um, because I am very different than the rest of group, I always got picked on. By a lot of bullies in school. They, um, they always picked on me and call me by all different names. And I have to go along with it, get used to it, because I know who I am. And I cannot change it. JS: Now, did the teachers or the people running the school treat you differently, because you were Amer-Asian? (07:50) LCL: Um, I didn’t notice a whole lot, which is a good thing. Like I said, they probably focused more on my mom and my aunt, who are looking for jobs. And I was too young for them to do anything, anyway. At school, they might say something, and I just don’t recall, a whole lot of it. But I know that, in school, with lecture, with history books regarding Vietnamese history, a lot of hatred towards America. I have to study, sometime give speech telling in front of the class, that I, you know, hate America. Just to go along with it, because I have to. And every day, to school, I have to wear a red scarf around my neck, symbolizing that I’m not just a student, at school, but also a Ho Chi Minh loyalty follower. Um. Yep, so… JS: And did you have to have a picture of Ho chi Minh in your house too? (08:50) LCL: Yes. We had a small picture hanging on the wall and it was required for every single family to have one. Without having one, we might end up in jail. So, right after the communists �took over, the picture was right away distributed by the government and it had to be hang up on the wall. The thing is we had to take down the…before the…what is it, the RN, the Republic of Vietnam flag. But my mom didn’t get rid of that. I found out, one day, she hid it on the top of the dresser, upstairs. It was all rolled up carefully and hidden away. She never throwed it away though. Which is something that I really admire her, up until this point. She still kept that. And hopefully, I can read that in her mind, she probably hoping to see if America would come back someday, to rescue the country out of the disaster like that. (09:42) JS: Okay. Now over the course of the, those ten years, before 1985, did life change? Did things kind of get better once your mother got a job? Or were there still a lot of the problems that you’d had all along? LCL: Even though my mom found a job at the hospital, income coming in just basic. We just have barely enough. To feed in the house, but not extra. The years get worse, especially around ’78 to ’82, 1982, where sometimes we didn’t have enough food supplies in the house, my mom’s clothing sell, furniture, anything that’s valuable. Anything, just to get buy, to have food in the house. So it was really really tough, for all of us. JS: All right. Now how did you wind up being able to come to America? (10:41) LCL: Well, we heard of a program called ODP (Orderly Departure Program). It’s a program called Organization for Departure and it’s, um, my mom heard about the program and right away she gathered all of our personal information and put it in an application and submit it. But it took us a total of over three years, before we got the ticket to America. So it take some time. But we got it. JS: Now did you have to pay for the plane tickets yourself or was there a charitable organization… LCL: No, we had… JS: The Americans paid for it? LCL: Yeah, yeah. The American organization paid for all that. Which is wonderful. The funny part, is that when we submit an application, they didn’t require a birth certificate or anything that prove my dad is, you know, dad of me. We, what they have is like an immigration officer, they would put me in the office and look at me, examining me, to see if I have anything that look like American, and that’s all there is to it. To prove for me, to be able to go to America. (11:52) JS: Now, how do they actually get you to America? Do you fly and where did you fly to? LCL: Yes. They booked tickets for me, my mom, and my sister. Three of us. But we didn’t, we couldn’t fly straight through to America. We have to stop by Philippine, Bantayan Island, for �six months. They put us in a training program called, what they called “Organized Culture,” something. A program, for six months. To train us so we could be prepared before we come to America. So learn like ESL English, and how every day life here. So when we came, we don’t have to be shocked. Or, you know, just to be ready. JS: Now they probably couldn’t prepare you for snow, though. (12:45) LCL: Uh, nope. (laughs) Uh, honestly, when we came here to America, the first thing that really amazed me was snow. Cause in Vietnam, the weather always very warm, to humidity. The eighty’s, ninety’s. But when we came here, to actually see snow falling down to the ground was amazing. I remember the first time when I spot snow, I ran out there in bare foot. I didn’t know it was going to be that cold! Yeah, but it was a wonderful experience, yep. JS: Let’s talk a little bit more about that orientation, or that thing you were doing in the Philippines. Were you there with a lot of other Amer-Asians children? LCL: Yes. Many just Amer-Asian families. They built like temporary homes for us. Each cubicle would divide into ten sections. We would live in each section, like that. Each family would put in. It was a little inconvenient but it was just something to get by. They distributed us food, drink, just basic needs. Weekly, and we walked to school and there’d be Pilipino teachers there to help us, teaching English. (13:54) JS: And did you get to know any of the other kids at all, or learn anything about what their experiences were like? LCL: Yes. One thing I did notice. I had a lot of Amer-Asian friends. But the thing is, they never mention anything about their past. Probably because many of them have very sad memories, so they didn’t bring it up for me. And I understand that. And even I had bad, even back then, I been bullied, called names and things like that. So I just kind of put that behind my mind. JS: So they were all looking forward… LCL: Yeah, forward. Pretty much, yep. Looking ahead. (14:27) JS: Now was your sister also Amer-Asian, or was she just Vietnamese? LCL: Yeah, my mom remarried, right after the communists took over. So my sister was purely one hundred percent Vietnamese. JS: But then did that marriage break up, or… �LCL: Um, well, when she came to America, he didn’t want to come along, so he decided to stay. My step-father decide to stay behind. I didn’t know why, but there must be a reason for it. Yep, so my mom and me and my sister were the only three that came to America. JS: All right. Now once you finish the six months in the Philippines, did you come directly to Michigan or did you settle somewhere else first? (15:11) LCL: Um, honestly, we didn’t know where we was gonna end up at. I didn’t even know that there was fifty some states in America. It just so new for me. The last month before we were headed to America, I knew that we were going to settle in Michigan. I didn’t know what Michigan state was like at all. I didn’t know whether there would be any Vietnamese family around. I remember that in November of 1985, right when we came into Gerald Ford International Airport, and we came to, and we saw a group of people that sponsored, and they welcome us in a very warm way. Make our heart warm up right away, because we were so nervous, when we come down to the airport, because we didn’t know what was going to happen. Who was going to take us home, or where we going to go next. Like that. So. It was a warm welcome, from this organization. They’re from Hamilton Reformed Church, and that was where we settled for about five years, before we moved to Holland, Michigan. (16:14) JS: Okay. Now what was the experience like for your mother, as far as you could tell? Did she adjust more or less easily than you did? LCL: When she came, she cried a lot. Because she missed her family. In Vietnam. She cried. I cried. You know, we have family that’s still left in Vietnam, that we don’t know whether we can be able to come back someday to see them, or not. And so it was tough on both of us. My sister was too little to know anything, so she is fine. But my mom, because she is a single mother, she has to work even harder. You know, when she tried to, when she first came, she have to try to get a driver’s license, learn to drive, get to work every day. And attend every night ESL class, to gain more of her English language knowledge. And it took her a few years. And not only that, she tried to learn the rules, and so that way, when the five years time is up, she can take the test to become a US citizen and she worked so hard that she achieved that, after five years. (17:25) JS: What kind of work was she doing? What kind of job did she get? LCL: Yeah, the first job of her was at Bil Mar factory, down at Zeeland, Boekeloo, Zeeland. Doing like Sara Lee meat, packaging, things like that. She worked there for about eleven to twelve years, in that factory. So it’s been a long time that she worked there. And after that, she decided to move to Holland and switch jobs to JB Labs, right on Riley Street, in Holland, working with medicines, until she retired, now a couple of months ago. But that whole entire time that she was here, she work at companies, one after another. (18:03) �JS: Okay. And did you start going to school here, as soon as you got here? LCL: Yes. When I came to Hamilton, that was the school I attend and that’s where I graduate, in 1990. At the high school. And I was actually really proud of myself because I know who I am, so I work a lot harder than anybody else. And I graduated as the top ten in my class. Which was, I was just very very proud at that time. You know, I work really hard, and then after that I attend Western (Michigan) University, in Kalamazoo, as an accounting degree and I graduated in ’94. So. JS: Now when you first got to that school, was it easy to make friends, or did kids not know what to do with you? (18:47) LCL: Yeah, it was really tough. I have to learn English from the beginning. Even though I have a training, a basic training in Philippine, but remember, we got Philippine teachers here, they got very heavy accents. And when we came here, it was like we totally learned a different language all over again. And it was very tough for me. But thanks for some of the teachers at Hamilton High School, they would set a few hours aside every day just for me and a few others kids, like Laotian, Thailand kids, things like that. To teach them more of the basic English. So that that way we could easily catch on, you know, the following year, into the regular classroom. You know. So it’s a helping out tremendously for me. For having that class. JS: Now were there any issues of discrimination, or people that treated you differently because you were Amer-Asian, or did that not really come up for you? (19:45) LCL: Here in America, you mean? Um, one thing I’ve noticed, honestly, is in Vietnam, I was considered to be a foreigner, you know, pretty much because I didn’t look like them. When I came here they don’t consider me American. They consider me Vietnamese. So it’s a little bit difficult for me to adjust in, to fit in. But eventually I get used to it, and up until now, because my English gets better, it’s just easier to cope and fit in, so that’s much easier a whole bunch. But the first couple of years was really difficult for me. Especially with English. They couldn’t understand what I was talking about. I couldn’t understand what they was talking about, to me. So it was challenging, yep. (20:30) JS: All right. Now is your husband himself, is he Vietnamese? LCL: Yeah. He is one hundred percent Vietnamese. I met him here in Holland, right after the five years when we moved to Holland after Hamilton. And I’ve been with him since. JS: And did his family have any issues with your being Amer-Asian, or… LCL: Oh, no. They are a wonderful family. Yeah, they accepted me in a very welcome way. So we are here, we are all a minority anyway so they didn’t have any discrimination or whatsoever going on. And my husband was always a very strong supporter of me. He comfort �me whenever I needed him, whenever I feel blue, or when I’m not comfortable in front of the people or like today’s interview for example. He talked and comforted me a lot, and just get me to feel better. Yeah, so very supportive. (21:30) JS: All right. Now do you pay much attention or listen to news about Vietnam, or what’s going on over there? LCL: Yes. While I watch national news almost every day, everything that was going on, especially to Vietnam. And not just Vietnam nowadays. I pay attention to almost every other country that America get involved in or so. It just a learning experience for me, day after day. JS: Would you like to go back to visit Vietnam at some point? LCL: I would love to go back to visit Vietnam. Well, first thing, to go back to visit my family, relatives, but I also would like to see if I can help any of the Amer-Asians that are still left behind there, because they were mostly in orphanage. They didn’t have any documents proving that they were, you know, half blood. JS: Right. (22:23) LCL: Um, so they got stuck in Vietnam. And I heard there are still several thousands of them, still in Vietnam. JS: Although by now, they’d be adults. LCL: Yeah. They’d got married and have children and everything. But they, very poor. No organization whatsoever supported them. No relatives supported them. So they pretty much on their own. And of course the community over there has not supported them, neither. So it’s very tough for them. JS: Now do you, or your mother, have any communication with your relatives back in Vietnam? LCL: Yes. We contact each other very regularly. As a matter of fact, by in 1997, my husband and I and my oldest child went back there for a month to visit. And that was a great experience. I got to visit his hometown. He got to visit my hometown. So it was a wonderful experience for us. And we would love, and looking forward, to go back there again some day. (23:17) JS: Okay. So the Vietnamese government is perfectly happy to have you come back as a tourist and spend money? LCL: Yes. Um, they would love to see us come back again, because I think right now the commerce is opening up a lot more to the tourists, because they know they we will bring home cash. Or bring home financially to help family. And that would help the economy too, so yeah, �it’s a lot changing than before. Much better, I think. But still to go back there and support the communist, I don’t think so, nope. JS: What did life seem to be like for people, when you went back in ’97? Were there…how was life there sort of different from how it is here? (24:04) LCL: Um, when I go back, I was really happy seeing my family, but I don’t feel like I fit in anymore. When I go back there, they look at me totally as a tourist, as an international person, you know, as a foreigner, and not a Vietnamese. Until I opened my mouth and start speaking in Vietnamese and they were shocked, seeing that I speak Vietnamese. But of course, they don’t treat me like any Vietnamese at all. Which is all right with me, I don’t mind. (laughs) JS: Now did you just go to Saigon when you were there? Or where is your husband’s family from? LCL: Yeah, my husband’s family is from [Phu Quoc], which is an island right off of Vietnam, a little bit. But, it took us six hours by boat to get to his island. But my hometown is right at Saigon, so much more convenient. (25:04) JS: All right. Let’s see. I think we’ve done a pretty good job going basic things that we were covering. Are there any kinds of individual events or things that happened to you that you remember, either about Vietnam or making a life over here, that sort of stand out in your memory? Let’s start with Vietnam first. Think back to the time when you were living there. What do you think of or what comes into your mind? LCL: Um, well, back when I was younger in Vietnam, I had to adopt their way of life, the communism way of life. Um, I remember when I was back there, when I was young, I got a very good voice as more like a passage, give a message out to the public. Most of the songs I sang over there were anti-America songs. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know honestly, I just sing my heart out, without knowing what was going on. Until now, I come to America, I sit back and I realize, something about it, I realize, gosh, I been saying a lot of bad things about my Dad, you know, side. JS: Yeah. (26:10) LCL: And it just more like a brainwash, really, some of the comments have done to me, you know. But, um, I learn it when I came here. It’s not easy. JS: Now when you were still in Vietnam and this kind of thing was happening, did your mother say much to you, or remind you that things aren’t really like this, or did she just kind of keep quiet? �LCL: She keep quiet most of the time. She didn’t want me to speak up, you know, in anger, because she wanted me to continue going on with school. And be knowing more, like any other kid. So, sometimes I…that’s why I never think hard of who I am exactly at that time. I did know that I was different than other kids around me, so that was the only thing I noticed and get picked on, so I did get used to it, you know. (27:04) JS: Now once you left Vietnam or whatever, did your mother tell you more about the rest of the story, or had she told you before you left? LCL: Well, she told me when we came here to America more, than over there in Vietnam. And when I came, I grew up more. And so I think she realized that I understand things better now, and so she explained and tell me stories about between her and my dad. Relationship, because I questioned sometime, you know. I think, did my dad really wanted me? Did my dad really love my mom? And things like that. So there were questions and stories that I would bring up and ask her. And she tried to answer me the best she can. And I can understand her situation as well. (27:52) JS: Okay. All right, that’s basically all I have by the way of questions. I’d just like to thank you for coming to talk to me today. LCL: Okay. And I do have to give a word out, I have to admit that I really appreciate America for giving out that ODP program, that immigration program. Because of that program, have saved hundreds and thousands of Amer-Asian children to America. And not only that, all their families too. So that is a greatly thing that I want to appreciate, the American government. But I would hope to see, if they had given out a special program or something that would help the rest of the Amer-Asian children that are still left behind in Vietnam that had nowhere to go. Because Vietnam wasn’t their homeland anyway. They have to force themselves to accept that. But that’d be nice to have a program, or from a private party or something like that, that would help them out. That would be greatly appreciated. (28:46) JS: Well, these days actually a lot of American Vietnam veterans go back to Vietnam and a lot of them do humanitarian projects so there’s some potential there for some help. LCL: Yeah, that would be wonderful. JS: Well, thank you very much. (29:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_LeL0494V Title A name given to the resource Le, Lan Chi (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-01-07 Description An account of the resource Ms. Le was born in Saigon in 1970 to an American father and Vietnamese mother. Her father had to leave, and her mother struggled to make a living, especially when the communists took over. A program called ODC allowed them to leave Vietnam, go to the Philippines for orientation for 6 months and then move to America. Mastering the English language was a struggle at first, but Ms. Le worked hard and became very successful. She said she is grateful to the ODC program. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Le, Lan Chi Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, Vietnamese-American Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af604db20cfe3806af1b93256d640371.mp4 f7e20e34b9399fb8ccbe322543ce50e5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de441a6fc56fbdccf26c3c236fa707b6.pdf b23205130676ab6baafa8b4a935946e4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II - WAC Mae Johnson Interviewed by James Smither Length of Interview: 29:14 (00:02) JS: We’re talking with Mae Johnson of Greenville, Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither, of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Mrs. Johnson, can you start with some background on yourself. Where and when were you born? MJ: I was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, July 14th, 1919. I grew up there, went to school. Graduated from Leavenworth. Not the prison, the college…the high school. And then, at that time, some of the guys from school were being sent into the Army or the Navy and the girls wanted to keep them happy, so we would join a club and write to them as often as we could. And send them goodies and stuff. (00:56) JS: Now do you remember that year you graduated from high school? MJ: ’37. JS: So after you graduated, did you go to work, or stay at home, or what did you do? MJ: I stayed home and earned some money, because I wanted to learn to be a nurse. So when I got enough money, I went to nursing school. And I was almost through the complete course, a three year course, and I got sick and I was out so long that I couldn’t possibly make up the time, so that was the end of that. JS: Now, where did you attend nursing school? MJ: It was in Greenwich, Connecticut. JS: Okay. And then, once you got sick and you couldn’t catch up, what did you do after that? MJ: Let’s see. I did a lot of baby-sitting jobs. And then I went to work, at that time it was called the Waterbury Clock Company. We held hands and made faces. (laughs) And we made parts for gyroscopes. So we knew what we were getting into at that time. I worked there for quite a while. (02:20) MJ: And then one of my best girlfriends had a sister who lived in California. She was a nurse. And we had enough money saved up so the two of us took the train and went out to California �and stayed out there until we ran out of money. We had to go to work out there, so we got a job at the Bethlehem Steel Company. JS: Now, where were you when Pearl Harbor happened? MJ: I think I was at home, in ’41. I must have been at home, cause I was with my dad. I remember that. JS: Home in Connecticut, at that point. All right. And when did you go out to California, then? (03:00) MJ: I can’t remember. There’s that time element…I can’t keep it straighten out. JS: But the war’s going on at the time that you go out there. MJ: Right. JS: So you go and you work for the steel company. And what were you doing for them? MJ: Oh, I don’t remember. It was something for the military, but I can’t exactly remember. I know…should I say that, Ed? Is it a bad word? (speaks to someone on her right) No, it isn’t really a bad word…really. I had a job working with a bastard file. And I had never heard of that before. And I was real close with my dad, and I knew all of his tools, but I never recalled that he had one of those things. Oh…that was fun. And we both stayed there until we could make enough money to get back to Waterbury again. (laughs). But, I remember what fun it was on the train. I mean, it was a real train, not like Amtrak. But it was fun, mostly it was a mixture of military people, going back and forth. (04:07) MJ: I remember one time, too, that we almost missed the train because we went out to get some goodies, and we pretty near didn’t make it… but… While we were out in California, that was great. Because there was so much to see back then, that was free. And I think I should tell you the story about my girl-friend…she was really naughty. We went to Chinatown one night… JS: So, San Francisco? MJ: Yeah. With the little bit of money that we had, and we went to the restroom. And when we came out, everybody in the place was laughing their heads off. And come to find out, I had a piece of toilet tissue that was trailing on my shoe. And I never did forgive her for that, for not telling me that. But we had a really good, a really good time. We had a chance, one time while we were out there, to go to Alcatraz, cause her sister knew somebody that was working on the boat or something. But we just missed it by a day. (05:17) MJ: But, you know, you see things on tv and it brings back memories, which are great. So… �JS: Okay. So, you had your adventure in California. You come back home to Connecticut. And then what do you do at that point? MJ: And then at that point, after having seen all the military, and having worked in the Bethlehem Steel, I guess I became over-patriotic. I said, oh gee, I guess I’ll join the service. So I did. (05:45) JS: Now how did that wind up working? Was there a recruiting office nearby that you go to? Or what happened? MJ: I didn’t hear you… JS: What’s the process? How do you end up enlisting in the WACs? MJ: Well, I had to go and enlist. And I think that was in New Haven, Connecticut, if I remember correctly. And, of course, I was accepted. And they give you all of your gear, all that stuff. And I was sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia. For the basic training. I was not there all that long. Just enough to learn all the… I do remember that while I was there, I didn’t like the soil that they had there. It was that red clay. And it was a heck of a job, trying to keep your shoes clean. And of course, you had that spot inspection. Get points off if you had a grain of that little red clay on your shoe. (06:40) JS: So what did they have you do, in basic training? MJ: Oh, my. We had a lot of PE. And marching. Marching, marching. Lots of school work. You know, the same learning as the guys do, basic things. I remember that one of my fears was that while we were marching, I would become out of step. And we had to put on a rear view parade performance for a big general, one time. And I thought, of my goodness, is it going to be me that’s going to make a misstep? I can’t remember for sure, but I think it was General Marshall. JS: That’s quite possible. MJ: And, of course, I didn’t know him from Adam, at the time. Yeah, I was there at Fort Oglethorpe for just a short time. And then they sent me to Hot Springs, Arkansas. To a huge Army/Navy General Hospital, that had been previously been a luxurious hotel. JS: Right. Cause you had the health spa there with the hot springs. (07:53) MJ: Right. And those were…I have to tell the truth, I never, cause I never did get into one of the spas. But we called it “Million Dollar Row” back then, and we would walk by. The hospital was at the top of the hill. You could overlook the city. Um, I remember one time that they were giving us some kind of a drill, and they were using a hose to put out a fire, a pretend fire. Of �course, they turn the water on. I can remember one girl, she was trying to hold the hose down. It jumped up in the air and she almost went flying. (laughs) It was comical, but… JS: Was this like one of those big, kind of canvas fire hose? Very big, a lot of pressure, just bounce around… MJ: Everybody was just laughing their heads off, it was just really fun. (08:48) JS: Now what was your job at Hot Springs? MJ: Actually, it was doing everything except the charting. For the…the nurses did all the charting. And the nurses dispensed all the medication. But the technicians actually gave them out to the patients. So, you know, it was just routine. Temperature, pulse and respiration. JS: Did you have a particular ward or part of the hospital that you were assigned to? MJ: It was called the surgical…actually, on my record, it says “Surgical and Medical Technician,” so there was a combination of both of them there. But, um, we did just about everything. You’d never catch a nurse emptying a bedpan, I’ll tell you that. You know how that goes, don’t you? (09:46) JS: Now were the nurses officers at this point? MJ: Yeah. All officers. JS: So you’re the enlisted people. You do the dirty work. MJ: Yeah. We did the dirty work. Which is par for the course, isn’t it? JS: Okay. And, I don’t know…what was daily life like there? MJ: Well, it was quite an adjustment getting used to living with so many girls. And sharing small quarters, really. Coming back to Fort Oglethorpe, though, I can remember how naïve I was. When they asked for volunteers to do something, and I volunteered for kitchen patrol. And part of it was cleaning out a grease pit. The other part was peeling potatoes. And that was before the, you know, automatic peelers. JS: Right. (10:38) MJ: Yeah. Oh, golly. It was fun at the Army/Navy General, but you know, when I first got there and looked at all those guys, and thought, I don’t know if I can really stand it, cause it was just overwhelming. You know, when you see the devastation to their bodies. But, truthfully, it �was the vets themselves that bolstered us. Which is surprising. So we both learned along the way. (11:16) MJ: So then after Hot Springs, then they sent me to Fort Sheridan, to the base hospital there. And that wasn’t exciting, quite so exciting until you know when… (smiles). I walked in one day and they had just brought back a bunch of guys that came back from overseas. And I saw this one person in particular, and I said to my girlfriend…I have to chuckle every time I think of this…well, I said, I’m going to take that guy home with me. I said, you can have the rest of them. I’ll take him home. (11:54) JS: Now in his account of things, he had kind of a foul temper at that point. MJ: He did. But he was a charmer. He didn’t really have to say anything, to be honest. I really and truly meant that, that I wanted it to, you know, get to be a lasting friendship. So…what else can I tell you about that… JS: Well, MJ: He finally warmed up, how about that? JS: He must have. Now, what did your duties consist of? Were you doing the same kind of work at Fort Sheridan as you had in the other place? (12:27) MJ: Yeah. Of course, it was a smaller…a much smaller base. JS: Now did you get there before the war in Europe ended? MJ: Right, um hmm. JS: Okay. So you got there early ’45, maybe? MJ: The war ended in ’45. JS: Right. And before they started to bring these guys back from Europe, this was just people on the base who got sick, that you dealt with? Cause it was the base hospital, or did they already have patients? MJ: No, we always took care of the ones that they brought back. (13:03) JS: Now, what kind of accommodations did you have at Fort Sheridan? MJ: We had barracks. Bunk beds. �JS: How many women would they put together in a room, in these places? MJ: You know, I’ve been trying to think of that. You mean, like for sleeping quarters? JS: Yeah. MJ: I really don’t remember. But I’d say maybe thirty or forty. JS: Now, when you decided to join the WACs, what did your parents think of that? (13:34) MJ: Well, maybe they were happy to get me out of the house, to tell you the truth. (laughs) Because I was about twenty, twenty four. JS: Twenty-five, yeah. MJ: So I think they were…they were happy. My dad had been in the Navy, so…I should tell you that actually I wanted to join the Marines, because I thought the Marines had a more exciting life. And their uniforms were nicer looking, and you know, once a Marine, always a Marine. (laughs) And I couldn’t make it. And I ate carrots, until carrots came out of my… JS: But you couldn’t pass their physical? MJ: I couldn’t pass just the eyes. Just the eyes. JS: The eye test. MJ: So, I settled for the Army. But, Fort Sheridan was an interesting place, because Lake Michigan was right there. We had a few little walks on the beach, there. And we were close enough to Chicago so that we could go there for all the cultural activities. And I really learned a lot. I mean, I came from a small town, what I thought back then, was 100,000 people. Waterbury. But then when you get close to Chicago and see the mass of people… (14:59) JS: So you didn’t, like from Waterbury, you didn’t get on a train and go into New York City, particularly? MJ: Oh, New York City was our…we spent a lot of money in New York City. JS: Okay. So you had that kind of experience before. MJ: One of the…one thing about going to New York City was… of course, we had to keep scrounging for our money so we had enough to get there. But anyhow, there were five girls in that one particular group that I hung around with, and we went one day, and we were going to do so much, and one of the girls said, let’s go to the opera. So, I had no idea what the opera was �like at that point. So I said, okay, let’s go. So just before we went to the opera, there were some vendors on the street, selling orchids. No…yeah, orchids. Twenty-five cents. So well, we thought, we can spend twenty-five cents to have a corsage. So we did that and we thought we were really bigwigs, you know. That was fun. (16:16) MJ: And, at Fort Sheridan, all kinds of things to go to. I really liked it there. One of the nice things about Chicago was, or an unusual thing, was riding on the North Shore Line. They had a pot-bellied stove, I can remember, on that train. So when I went to visit Ed, when he was at the Veterans Hospital, that was in Waukesha, Wisconsin, so I’d get on the train at Fort Sheridan and ride to Milwaukee. And pick up and go to the Veterans Hospital. JS: So they had sent him from Fort Sheridan up to Waukesha, for the recuperation period? MJ: Yeah. JS: Okay, yeah. MJ: Yeah. There were so many things to go to. But everything was free back then. (17:06) JS: Now what did you like to do in Chicago? MJ: I liked to go to the museums. Because in Waterbury we didn’t have any. We had smaller ones, but nothing like there. JS: Yeah, cause Chicago at that point already had the Field museum, they had the aquarium. The Art Institute was down there, and so forth, yeah. MJ: I remember one time they gave us tickets to the football game at Northwestern. JS: Okay. MJ: That was fun. I don’t think I watched the game. I watched all the people around me. But, oh my golly, I can’t think. The food in Chicago was so good. Chinese. You acquainted with the Palmer House in Chicago? That was one of our…when we thought we were such big shots back then, too. Going to the Palmer House. (shakes head) That was fun. Um, I can’t remember what else. All the things that people pay to go see, nowadays. The Aquariums…oh, golly. I can still picture walking the street. (18:27) MJ: There was one place there, I can’t remember the name of the hotel, it was right on the main drag, I don’t even remember the name of that main drag anymore. JS: Michigan Avenue? �MJ: Michigan Avenue. And there was one big hotel there, and any service person that came in there had free room and board. So that really paid off. There were several of us stayed there several nights, you know, over the course of our time there. So… (19:05) JS: So now eventually, you meet this fellow, and you decide to get married. Um, you tell your parents at the last minute… MJ: Did we have to go back a little bit? How did that go? Oh, I know now what I’m thinking. He proposed and at the time, he smoked all these cigarettes. So, I said, no way. I’m not marrying any man that’s going to smoke a cigarette and put… JS: That’s the other part of the quitting smoking story, then? (laughter) Cause in his version, he just had a bet with a priest. (laughter) So he didn’t switch right away. MJ: I don’t know which came first. JS: Well, the priest was on the ship coming back from Europe. MJ: Oh, oh oh! JS: All right. Now this is why you talk to two people. (19:56) MJ: I had not heard that story, truthfully. But, I guess he picked me over the cigarettes. It paid off, didn’t it? JS: Yep. Yep. Still here. MJ: Oh, dear. So, we decided then, we’d get married at the [unclear] Chapel. And we had to let our parents know. And my folks came from Waterbury and his folks came from Greenville. And everybody met the night before the wedding. Which was, you know, when I look back on it now, it’s really comical. Wondering if, gee, I wonder if she’ll like me. But, at 23 or 24 years old, who cares. I mean, you’re your own guys then. So we had a military wedding right there at the chapel. Not a big one, but everybody came. (20:56) MJ: One funny part of that was my dad and I, like I said, we were always so close, and we were standing back in the entrance way of the church, and the music kept playing “Here Comes the Bride.” And my dad and I kept talking and talking. I don’t know how many times they played it. And Ed tells me, he thought he was being jilted, at the time. (laughter) But finally, I realized, gosh, I guess we better get a-going, so we walked down. And I can remember afterwards, Ed telling me he asked the minister, “what am I supposed to do?” (laughter) And the minister said, just stand there. Just say “I do” when you have to. JS: Okay. Now were you still in the WACs at that point? �(21:46) MJ: Yeah. JS: And then, did they make you leave once you got married? MJ: No. No, I stayed until, let’s see, what was it? We were married in October. I don’t know. It must have been November or December. I think we were home for Christmas, weren’t we? Here? For Christmas? JS: So basically, you were able to stay in until it was time for you and him to go? MJ: Right. (22:25) JS: Now were there other pieces of your family story that he left out that you want to get in? Cause how many kids did you have? MJ: When we came back, after we were married and came back here, our first son was born in 1949. And we lived here at the time. And then Ed started college, and while at college, our son Bruce was born, 1951. But over the years, we kept track of all their sports, you know, like all good parents do, and go to PTAs and all that sort of thing. And, I’m losing track of all my thoughts. They’re getting all confused. (23:14) JS: But there was a story about Bruce you wanted to… MJ: Yeah. Bruce, his son graduated from high school last year. And one of the big joys of his life was going to Alaska with his son, to fish. But previous to that, Bruce and Justin went three or four times to Canada, to get together, just the three of them. Which was three generations, which I thought was just super. And they did all their fishing up there. They have stories to tell. So both boys were really active. We’re really happy. And we have three grandchildren. And expecting another one, hopefully. Other than that, I don’t know… (24:23) MJ: Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. When we were married at Fort Sheridan, of course, they had a reception for us. And they came out with this big beautiful wedding cake. And, come to find out, it was made by a German prisoner of war. Who was one of the cooks, one of the p.o.w’s. And, Ed didn’t know about that until several months later. He probably would have thrown up at the thought of it. But that was interesting. JS: Yeah. Cause a lot of the guys talk about coming back and they’ll go to a meal around one of the big camps in New York, and the meals were all being served by German p.o.w.’s. Did you yourself see much of the Germans on Fort Sheridan? Were you aware of them on the base, or did you not…? �(25:11) MJ: The p.o.w.’s? JS: Yeah. MJ: We had a lot of them there. We had the…what did they call them? The S.S. troops. We had the bigwigs there. And, I don’t know. I didn’t seem to be frightened of them, but just the thought of them being there… Of course, they had to toe the mark. They were watched constantly. I often wondered what happened to them. Because it would be the same as P.o.w.’s over there. But…but quite a difference, because the German prisoners were really treated well. When they weren’t overseas. (25:57) JS: Well, some of them just stayed. They all had the chance to go home, and some of them found a way to stay in this country and are still here. MJ: I’m sure there are quite a few… JS: But they’re less likely to be the S.S. guys, though, than the regulars. But that was…and we were using them for farm work here in Michigan. They were all over the place. MJ: Yes. I think they probably went to farms. But am interesting, an interesting… JS: All right. Now think back to the time that you spent with the WACs, whether in Arkansas or at Fort Sheridan. Are there any other kind of particular things that kind of stick in your head, about that? Either individual people or things that happened to you? (26:47) MJ: I can remember one particular time that I got really close to a patient who had been in some kind of a wreck. And her face was just about shattered. And I was assigned to just take care of her. And I was with her just constantly, you know, for the whole shift. And I had to keep putting compresses on her face. Soothing her and trying to help her emotionally, and I remember her name. She was a lieutenant. Lieutenant Edith Rittenberg. And she was a wonderful wonderful lady. And she made it, she finally recovered. She didn’t recover there, but she went, I think she went to some big hospital out west. That was one where I felt like I was really doing good. (27:56) MJ: But at the Army/Navy General Hosptial, I can still picture those guys. That was heartbreaking. And that was just one small segment of the war. You think of the nurses that were overseas and had to do all that hard work. Tirelessly. They were on their feet constantly. JS: But in those days, it took a very long time to recover from wounds. And men would be in bed for months and months and months at a time, and somebody had to look after them and take care of them, so that went on for a long time. �MJ: Right. I was really happy that I went into the service. It’s just that the best part of it for me was meeting Ed. (28:38) JS: Did you find that having had that nursing training was helpful to you when you became a technician? MJ: Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially for the classwork. So. There’s so many terms that you better be familiar with, that you better be on your toes or out you go, you know. But I was really disappointed that I couldn’t finish nurse’s training. But it just wasn’t to be, so… JS: Okay. Well, in the end, you came out pretty well. MJ: Very well. Very well. JS: I’d just like to thank you for taking your time to add your story to the collection. (29:14) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_JohnsonM1348V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Mae (Interview transcript and video), 2012 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-08 Description An account of the resource Mae Johnson was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, in 1919. She graduated from Leavenworth High School in 1937 and eventually went to nursing school. Because she could not finish nursing school, Mae traveled to California with a friend. After visiting California, she decided she would enlist in Woman's Army Corps (WAC) in New Haven, Connecticut. She was then sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia for basic training. After basic training, Mae was sent to Hot Springs, Arkansas where she worked in a hospital as she was assigned to the Surgical and Medical Wards. Once she was finished in Arkansas in early 1945, she was sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois where she maintained a similar position as before. While at Fort Sheridan she met her future husband and met many German POWs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Mae Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army. Women's Army Corps Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/38fcfeee2cfe5b67d488c5e134e57dfa.mp4 bac1f07eba70dfd4cc635ed4401ace4b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ecde7d621f09b997915c71065693360a.pdf 95797647841830b24a534715c5abb02e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam, Army Carolyn Greene Interviewed by Charlie Collins Length of Interview: 42:01 (00:15) CC (interviewer name unknown): Today we’re going to do your life history. And we’re going to start with where you were born. And tell us your full name and spell it for us, please. CG: My name is Carolyn Greene (spells name). I was born in Jackson, Mississippi. I was born June 23rd, 1948. My father was United States Air Force, Keesler Air Force Base. I also had two uncles that were in the Air Force. One was stationed in the Philippine Islands, his name was Edgar. Edgar Greene. And then we had another one, his name was Ollie Greene. He was stationed with the Germans. But anyway, all of them used to get together and every time they’d get together, that was how I come into the military myself. It come from being around them. I grew up being around Keesler Air Force Base, I was around there where you see all the big B-52 bombers coming in. Ooh, they look good. (01:29) CC: Them take off, they were big, weren’t they? CG: I’m talking about me and my cousin, we was in the window. And the landing strip was right in front of the barracks, where we were staying at. And you could hear them coming in. They sound good and they look good. And we would be at the window every…you know, every time, we’d be at the window, waiting on them. That’s how I got military’s. CC: So you were raised as a military brat, weren’t you? CG: I was, and I am. I’m still a military brat. CC: Carolyn, do you remember much about before you went to school? CG: That’s what I’m telling you about now. Um hmm. (02:22) CC: Okay, now Carolyn, what was your mother doing at that time? CG: My mother was at Jackson State College, going to become a master, a teacher. But she wasn’t yet at that grade. CC: So your mother eventually got a master’s degree in teaching? CG: Yes, she did. She was good at it too. �CC: Yes. Carolyn, as a military brat, where did you start kindergarten at? CG: Keesler Field, that’s where I started. CC: Can you spell that? CG: Keesler. Do you want me to spell that out? Oh, shoot. Do you know how old I am? CC: How old are you? CG: I am 58 years old. CC: Right. CG: Keesler. I mean, I know it’s Keesler, KE-something. CC: K-e-s-l-e-r, isn’t it? CG: Yeah. Okay. But that’s where I started kindergarten at. CC: You started kindergarten there. Do you remember your first day? (03:28) CG: My first day? That’s when I seen the B-52 bomber coming in. CC: Really. Carolyn, did your mother take you to kindergarten or did you have to walk and go alone? CG: Oh, all us kids went together. Because we went on post. All us kids went together. Cause I remember we used to have a park that we used to play in all the time. And I had a godfather. He was Hispanic. He was a pilot. I remember him. He had, he had gave my dad a picture. I don’t know where that picture went. If I can ever find that picture, I’m gonna get it. Because, like, he was a pilot. CC: Do you remember what your godfather’s name was? CG: I sure don’t. But I know in his picture, he was a fine looking man. CC: And he was a pilot. CG: He was a pilot. (04:24) CC: Okay. Carolyn, do you remember your grade school teacher’s name? �CG: (laughs) I can’t believe you’re asking me this. Do you remember your grade school teacher’s name? CC: No, I don’t. CG: All right then. (laughter). All right. One grade school teacher I know, Miss Porter, that about it. CC: Okay. Well, that’s better than I ‘cause I don’t know that I remember any of them. CG: Then why you ask me if I remember any of my grade school teacher’s names when you don’t even remember yours, okay? (laughter) Think about it. (05:00) CC: Think about it, right. Carolyn, what did you do when you went to school? Did you play any games there on the military post with the other kids? CG: Yes, we did. CC: What kind of games did you play? CG: Oh, the games, the one thing, you know that used to go around (motions with hand), we used to play on that all the time. CC: On the merry-go-round. CG: On the merry-go-round. That’s what it was. But most of the time, you know, we set out there by the field, looking for the planes coming in. CC: So you watched the planes a lot. CG: Um hmmm. That’s what we did. CC: And at that time, they were B-52s, which were big ones. CG: B-52s, the bomber, honey. B-52 bombers. (05:45) CC; Carolyn, how about any other games. Did you play hopscotch or anything with the other kids? CG: I remember that. We played hopscotch when we got bored. CC: (laughs) When you got bored. Did you have a bicycle or tricycle? CG: No. �CC: Did any of the other kids around have… CG: We had planes. We would play with planes. Dad and Ollie would get us planes. And we would go zoom, zoom (motions like flying a plane through the air). That’s what we did. CC: So you played with model planes a lot? CG: Umm hmmm. A whole lot. (06:20) CC: Well, Carolyn, as you begin to grow up and go through the lower grades, did you go to any of the other events, like a play, or have an operetta, or anything like that in grade school? CG: Hon, I’m gonna tell you where I’m from. I am from Jackson, Mississippi. And this was back then in the ‘50s. Nobody black went to nothing like that. CC: Okay. CG: What we did. We went to church. CC: Church? Okay. Tell us about going to church. (07:01) CG: Oh, well, you wanna go into history. Well, honey, I’m fittin to give you some history. ‘Cause we were with the Freedom Riders, in Jackson, Mississippi. CC: You were with the Freedom Riders? CG: Uh huh. We was all in it. We couldn’t help but be ‘cause my mom was in the NAACP. She was, you know, worked with Medgar Evers. And the night that Medgar Evers got killed, he had my t-shirt, among other things, in his hand. And we were one of the kids that did the boycott, you know, went to the fairgrounds. We were one of the kids that did [unclear]. You know, we did all of that. CC: You did that, and all of those things. CG: I’m giving you some history. You want some history? You know the three civil rights workers? James, Andrew Goodman. We knew all of them. We were with them. Because, you know, they were teaching us how to read, read more books, you learn by reading more books. They gave us a little learning. An education. We would go down to the [unclear] office all of the time. You see, that’s civil rights. That was the politics growing up. (08:27) CC: Sure. �CG: And I learned a lot from him. CC: I bet you did. Carolyn, where did you go to high school? CG: Lanier, Lanier High School. CC: Was that on the base, also? CG: Oh, no. CC: So daddy had… CG: That’s Jackson, Mississippi. CC: Okay. Well, tell us a little bit about your experiences in high school? (08:54) CG: Okay. I had this boyfriend. CC: You had a boyfriend? CG: And his name was George Jackson, and he used to follow me around all the time. He played football. And then I had another friend guy. He used to follow me around, he thought he was Batman, cause like this coat, he carried it, it looked like a flag, flying in the sky somewhere. But, at that particular time, everybody was interested in the civil rights movement then. Because the Freedom Riders had came to Jackson, then. SS (female interviewer): They didn’t have segregated schools back then, did they? CG: Hon, I’m gonna tell you something. They had segregated schools. SS: Did they? CG: All the blacks went to one school, and all the whites went to another school. But this were during the time when it was really bad, ‘cause, like you go downtown, you could not even go to a water fountain and drink water out of it. You had to go to, you know, a water fountain that had a sign on it saying ‘colored.’ And then, you go over there and drink out of a white water fountain, you was in trouble. I mean, they’d get on you. SS: It was the same thing with restaurants too, wasn’t it? (10:19) CG: The same way. It was the same way. You know, a lot of these things, you see on the TV. But during the civil rights days, you know, it’s true. Oh, I had a chance to meet Dr. Martin Luther King. �CC: Did you? CG: Oh, yes I did. CC: Tell us about that. CG: I worked with him. I also worked with Medgar Evers, too. CC: With who? CG: Medgar Evers. NAACP. Because all during that time, it was interesting, because I got a chance to meet a lot of people. CC: Tell us about meeting Martin Luther King, Carolyn. (10:54) CG: Well, when I first met him, I was in the NAACP office, in Tyson, Mississippi. In come Medgar Evers, he had an office there. And I, it was like a room, and a lot of people come, like, they had a talk with him, like they had an apartment. But the most interesting part about it, every time something happened, [unclear] would run out there with a newspaper, and say “you see this happened,” and one time he said, “It’s going to change.” And he said, you see that nigger over there? He going to help make that change? And you know, that’s how we got a chance to meet him. A lot of them would come in that office. Sammy Davis Junior, Medgar Evers. I mean, you had top movie stars would come in there, too. CC: So did you meet Sammy Davis Junior also? (11:53) CG: Honey, we had a chance to meet all of them. CC: Oh, good. CG: That’s what you call, in the right place at the right time. CC: Yes. CG: ‘Cause they was working along with the NAACP. CC: Did you ever see Sammy Davis Junior perform? CG: No. CC: Did he ever doing anything while you were in the office there? CG: No. The main thing they did was talk with Medgar and then they’d leave out. Because, honey, downstairs, you had police cars like, it was like a holiday. And see, the only thing �different then, was it was a Masonic Temple and the police couldn’t just come up in there like they wanted to. SS: What kind of temple? CG: Masonic. ‘Cause Medgar was a Mason. He had his office in the Masonic Temple. CC: Okay. (12:53) CG: And, so like, all the police cars be on the outside. I mean, every whole day, we’re looking out the window, looking down at them. It was scary. CC: I bet it was. CG: But, wait a minute. The main thing we were scared about, like the main people that I was with, you know, going to different meetings and different things, were the Freedom Riders. And we would go downstairs, you know. To get a pop or something, you know or have a mass meeting or something like that. And they were right behind us. They were right behind us. I’m not talking about the police. I’m talking about the Ku Klux Klan. They were right behind us. SS: (female voice): Do you remember when those three boys got killed down there? CG: Uh huh. ‘Cause I talked to James Chaney the night before he was killed. And they found them on my birthday, June 23rd. it upset me so bad. That’s when I really started drinking. More. (14:04) SS: How old was you? CG: Twelve years old. Yeah. But, I knew ‘em. ‘Cause they used to bring me home all the time, from different meetings and everything. The same station wagon. They used to bring me home. They used to bring a lot of us home. And, honey, when I found out, you know, from looking at the movie and everything, how they used to keep close tabs on them, that’s scary. That is really scary. I mean, they had the car tag number. The had a [unclear] file. They brought it out. And I read it. And on it, they had people’s names and if you were with them, they had your name down there. I mean, it was scary. They had a paper with the address, you know, everything. They just had everything about you. But I was like, I hung with ‘em. (15:10) CC: Carolyn, now who are you saying had all of your names and addresses? CG: The KKK. CC: The KKK, okay. �CG: And then whoever…I don’t like to talk too much about it, ‘cause that’s scary. CC: Sure it is. CG: And, like, I seen them the night before they left. Because I was at the office. Me and [unclear] was at the office. We used to sit up and talk with them all the time. And you know, James told me one thing, before he left. He said, it’s not going to be like this always. One of these days, when it gets like this, I want you to tell this story. And, you know, we got to keep this freedom going. We got to make it possible so that everybody, not only the black, but for whites, too. Because they had an imbalance the same way we did. You see, with the whites, it was different, but for us, you just didn’t want to experience that. (16:20) SS: Well, it’s funny now because back then, the KKK did not want to be known. I mean, they didn’t want people to know who they were. Now, they publicize it. CG: That’s right. You see, but it’s different now. You see, back then, everything was hidden. You see, everything was underwraps. But that was a scary thing. I remember when they used to bring us home all the time. Medgar Evers, all of them, they’d make sure we got home safe. But, honey, when my mama found out that they had gotten killed, she was like, uh uh, you can leave Mississippi! She send we can send you, you know, up north. ‘Cause I don’t want you to be around and come up missing like the rest of them. And they were steady getting ‘em. (17:20) CC: Carolyn, did you graduate from high school? CG: Yes, I did. CC: And where was that? CG: Jackson, Mississippi. CC: In Jackson, Mississippi. CG: I remember that day. June, the 12th. 1966. CC: 1966. (clarifies) (17:46) CC: I get a little mixed up here in numbers. CG: Now, honey, you get a little old. You forget your math then. (laughter) CC: Carolyn, you were still in Jackson, Mississippi, then, in 1966? CG: Yes, I was. �CC: How did you get involved in the service? CG: My father was in the military. And I had a boyfriend that went to Vietnam. And when he went, he didn’t come back. (18:17) CC: Oh, my. CG: And he was from Muskegon, Michigan. And his name was Anderson Tucker, junior. And I used to write him all the time but I never did hear from him, so that’s how I knew. So, mostly, when I was going to Jackson State, and I met a lot of guys that had came home from Vietnam. And, hon, I had three friends and all of us were meeting, and we talk with them and play guitar with them, and I think one of them kind of liked me. But, anyway, all of us used to hang together. And every time, we’d go to the liquor store about ten o’clock and pick up a bottle of wine. And like, they had just came from ‘Nam, they had been through a lot. They talked to me about it. They talked about what they had been through. And that’s when I decided to go. (19:21) CC: So that’s when you decided to go. Where did you join the service at? CG: In Jackson, Mississippi. CC: In Jackson, Mississippi. And what did you join? CG: United States Army. CC: You joined the Army. And tell us about your first day of induction into the Army. CG: Um ummm ummm. (shakes head) You see my hand here? (Holds up hand.) When you take that oath? It’s like you gave your whole life away. CC: Yes, you do. (19:57) CG: And that’s scary. And then they tell you “You are now in the United States Army.” And I said, do you get a chance to go home? (laughs) SS: You belong to us, now. CG: I said, do I get a chance to go home? They said, yes, but pack your bags. But you don’t have nothing to pack, just your [unclear]. I’m thinking that we gonna shop, go on a shopping spree. (laughs) SS: Didn’t work out that way, did it? �CG: (still laughing) Uh uh. [unclear] I’m thinking, we fittin to go on a shopping trip. I’m going to South Carolina, right? I’m thinking they gonna give me some money so I can go on a shopping trip for clothes. I ain’t wearing nothing down there (points), from some basement shop. And they give me all these green clothes. The fatigues and everything. And they give me the backpack, and I say, what am I gonna do with this? They say you gonna take this, and I say, no I ain’t. They said, that’s your lifeline. I said that ain’t my lifeline, I ain’t taking that. (21:17) CG: And then talking about the canteen. I said, what’s that for? To cook in. [unclear, laughing]. SS: Now how old was you at that time? CG: Oh, twenty-two. I said, we ain’t cooking in that. We better give me a pot so I can cook some greens. (laughs) But we had to take that around with us in that backpack. I said, I am not carrying this thing on my shoulders. Is you crazy. The men’s can carry it. They said, you got to carrying it too. I said, what do you mean, we got to take it too? At the time, we couldn’t say nothing then. But afterwards, we gave him a long talk about that backpack. (22:02) CC: Carolyn, where did you go for your basic training? CG: Fort Jackson, South Carolina. CC: So you stayed right in South Carolina, didn’t you? CG: Yes, I did. [unclear] (22:24) CC: Carolyn, let me ask you, when you joined the service, was it still segregated? CG: Umm, yeah. CC: Little bit. CG: That’s the problem we had at Fort [unclear], Alabama. ‘Cause, like I went to college, and a lot of other girls went to college. But more of the whites, you know, were getting promoted before we did. And I went to college and I still didn’t get promoted. Like I was supposed to. CC: So you went to college when you was in the service? CG: Um hmmm. CC: Okay. And so you were inducted in South Carolina… �CG: Hon, listen to how this sounds. I was inducted in South Carolina. I’m from Jackson, Mississippi. I was going to school in Jackson, Mississippi. (looks to other interviewer) We gotta change him. You gotta go. (laughter) But, anyway, I got inducted in Jackson, Mississippi. I went to Fort Jackson, South Carolina, for basic training. CC: For basic training. SS: Did you train with other blacks? (23:52) CG: Oh, yeah. It was mixed. SS: Oh, it was? In the training? CG: It was mixed. They were just beginning…that was the beginning of the mixing. Because before I left, you know, school had just gotten integrated. But like, it was mixing up things. CC: So tell us, as you started your basic training, what was your impression of the place that you was at? CG: Oh, I liked it, for one thing. Only thing I didn’t like about it, remember I was telling you (points to SS), the men’s would tell you to fall out in one type of clothes and the females would come down and you had to go back upstairs and change. Honey, you were a nervous wreck before the day was over with. Then you know why I am like I am. (24:50) CC: Tell me a typical day as you started out in your basic training. CG: On a typical day, we’d go to the mess hall to eat. CC: Right after you got up. What time did you get up? CG: Were you in the service? CC: No. CG: Oh, so he’s a civilian. Okay, that’s why all this talk going on. Okay, but anyway. We had to get up about five in the morning. Really we got up at four in the morning. So we could be up to fall out. We had to go to the mess hall to eat, and then when we left the mess hall, we’d come back and do what we had to do that day. We would like run in the fields, or you know, doing your basic whatever we had to do that day. But then it was crazy about it. The men drill sergeant tell you to fall out with one type of clothes. Then here come the female. That was crazy. And after we did all that, and then you here the guys coming down the street. And they were singing their song, honey. (26:01) �CG: And they let us stay out there long enough to see all that. I enjoyed that. All of us enjoyed that. SS: Describe your female drill sergeant. CG: Drill sergeant [Carrocha]. She was six foot ten. She was like a football player. And she had a bellowing mouth. She hollered. When she hollered (illustrates jumping to attention), you did one of them. And, like, she was nice though. But don’t mess up. CC: Don’t mess up, huh. CG: Put it like this. Don’t mess up. Period. But she pretty nice. But you mess up, you need to be on the ground doing fifty push-ups already, ‘cause when she get to you, you know, that’s what you going to wind up doing. (27:12) CC: So after basic training, where did you go? CG: Fort Rucker, Alabama. CC: Okay. And what did you do there? CG: Okay. I was like in personnel. It better gave…they gave you a number…Now we had to go to AIT first. ‘Cause we had to learn how to type, you know. Learn about the different materials you had to do. CC: What does AIT mean? CG: That’s a school. And like you learn… you know, I’m gonna have to get rid of him. He don’t know nothing. (turns to SS) You done been around all these vets, you don’t know nothing. Period. What do AIT mean? Do I look like I feel like telling you what AIT means? (28:08) CC: Well, Carolyn, your great grandchildren are going to listen to that and they may not know what… CG: Honey, my great grandchildren, they going to be up there. You know, outer space. They probably be up there before I do. But anyway, that’s AIT, it’s like school. CC: Sure. CG: And like, they teach you how to type. And like, when you there, you learn how to do your paperwork and everything. CC: So when you went to AIT, did you learn to use computers as well? �CG: No, honey, we didn’t have no computers. This is in, think about it, in the sixties, early seventies, now. They didn’t have no computers. CC: Didn’t have computers yet in the service. CG: If they did, we didn’t know nothing about it. ‘Cause you know how Uncle Sam is. (29:10) CC: So you learned to be a typist and to work in the office. And what did you do then? CG: Type. I was the one that made your dog tags, your ID, take your picture for your ID. You know. That’s what I was doing. CC: Did you do that all the time you was in the service? CG: Umm hummm. SS: Did you get any furloughs? CG: Oh, we had furloughs. On the weekend, we had furloughs. CC: And what did you do? CG: I went back to Jackson, Mississippi and partied my buns. ‘Cause I had some friends who had been in the service and they the ones who had suggested me going into the service. ‘Cause it would be beneficial to me, cause I had just had a baby. And they used to write me. So when I come home, they would come get me. So most all of them, they were veterans. SS: Now you had your little girl before you went in service? CG: Yes, I did. (30:08) CC: Okay. So you had a little daughter, then? Okay. What’s her name? CG: Tracy. CC: Tracy. So what’s Tracy doing now? CG: Oh, she work at the VA down south. Jackson, Mississippi. And her father went in too. He was trying to stop me from going into the service. He wound up going. ‘Cause I told him, what you going…he was going to Jackson State. I said, what you plan on doing. He said, well, I’m gonna be a photographer. I said, you know what, that’s why I‘m going in the service. Because we got a daughter. And he wound up going in. that was good, because considering that, he five years later, he had a by-pass, and like, he don’t have to work no more if he don’t want to. Uncle Sam is paying him. He is so glad now. �CC: That he went into the service? (31:06) CG: umm hummm. CC: Is he still alive? CG: (laughs) What I’m going to do with you? He is still alive and kicking. [unclear] kick too much. But anyway, all my cousins started going in. So everybody alive is much better now, for going in. I was the first one in the family, to go. CC: Carolyn, how long were you in the service? CG: Almost two years. CC: Almost two years. After you was out of the service, what did you do? CG: Went back to school, Jackson State. I taught for a minute. But basically, what I wanted to tell you about when I was at Fort Rucker… CC: Sure. (31:55) CG: I want to tell you about the guys that was coming home. From Vietnam. That would really piss me off, because like, I was stationed at an Aviation plant, I mean base. And they had a lot of challenge coming over there, taking the train[ing?] Helicopter train. And that was an upset. To all the guys, because you didn’t have no flights going in taking blacks off the train. You might have one in a thousand, so…one black might graduate… SS: So, you mean, they didn’t want blacks… CG: Hon, let me tell you. I’m sorry, but let me tell you something. Fort Rucker, Alabama. It’s pure redneck territory. I mean, like, everybody down there, a redneck. I mean, they were prejudiced. I mean, you go to the gate. You better go with a group of more people. When you go into town, you don’t go by yourself. But anyway, like I said, it was redneck country. Alabama. (33:19) CG: So, like, it was prejudice. Lot of prejudice. CC: I bet there was. SS: Did you ever run into a lot of prejudice with your fellow soldiers? �CG: Ummm, not too much. Because we really didn’t hang. Because they pretty much help us with where to go and where not to go. So we pretty much didn’t hang. But what we’d do, somebody’d have a trailer in the trailer park over there. Mostly we hung on the grounds. On the post grounds. We didn’t go too much anywhere. ‘Cause the party was on post. We’d go to the park, where they had a lake where you could race a speedboat. I used to love doing that. Or you’d be at the barracks, too. Well, you know how I am. Everybody would hang with us. And so we didn’t go too many places. (34:28) CC: Carolyn, as the fellows at your base was coming back from Vietnam, what was their thoughts about that? CG: It was crazy. CC: Crazy. CG: It was crazy. ‘Cause, like, I had one Vietnamese, we had got pretty close, pretty good friends. And like, honey, those guys would jump up and down. You did not talk to them, period. That was the atmosphere. It was like, you know, you don’t talk to them. They didn’t want a black woman around them, period. It was like prejudice. Cause these guys were just getting back home, and I couldn’t blame them, but I’m like this. I’m in a strange territory and I’m seeing all these rednecks running around, so I’m like what’s going on. SS: So this Vietnamese that you was talking to, were they born in the United States? CG: (shakes head no) I come to find out, they was over there for helicopter training. SS/CC: Okay. (35:53) CG: That’s something I’m trying to tell, y’all. They were bringing them over here for helicopter training. And this was at a time when nobody knows what was going on then. And that’s when I got up out of there, cause something ain’t right. ‘Cause you look, you know, here are all these guys going for helicopter training and you think, what the hell they doing over here? You know. I mean, we’re supposed to be fighting them, right? What are they doing over here? So I just said, forget this. I’m getting up out of here. And, honey, I went back home. (36:38) CC: Carolyn, after your two years of service, and you went back to college, is that right? CG: Ummm hmmm. CC: What did you study? �CG: History. But the main thing I want to tell you about, I worked with the Vietnam vets organization back then, when they first getting heard. They were having a lot of problems. Iw orked with them in Detroit and in Jackson, Mississippi. CC: Okay. And what did you do with them? CG: We did a lot of speaking. CC: Did a lot of talking, a lot of speeches and so on? And you did those, too? CG: (nods head affirmatively) CC: Okay. I’m trying to get at what you did as far as interviews and such, after you got out of the service. CG: I went back to school. CC: You went back to school. But after that… CG: Let me tell you. Listen. I’m a veteran, right? I’m not serious, right? Honey, anybody that got out of the service, they went to school. There weren’t no jobs. No jobs. What you did is you went to school. You got paid, at least four something a month. Every first of the month, you got four something a month check coming in the mail. (38:00) SS: How did you get involved with tv? CG: Oh, well, I’m into art anyway. Like my boyfriend, my daughter’s father, he mess around with photography. And so he had a cam corder, and most of my friends, we all go to Jackson State and most of them went on to the [department] and everything. That’s it. SS: Did you go on and become professional at it? Get paid for it? CG: Well, now, I worked for Capital Cable. And I went to class to get my producer’s license. That’s what I did. I enjoyed it, working with the computer, putting the edits in the films. And, I like when you get the letterings together. That’s the part I liked. SS: What job did you get that paid you? Made a living off of? CG: I didn’t get no job. SS: Oh, you didn’t. What did you do? CG: I got married. SS: That’s a job. (laughs) �CG: You got that right. I got married. (39:29) CC: So tell us how, where did you get married? CG: In Jackson. He was a veteran too. He had just came from Vietnam. And he went back in the Navy. CC: He went in the Navy? CG: He left the Army and went back in. You know, he changed. CC: Went from the Army to the Navy? CG: And he was stationed in the Great Lakes. CC: So as you got married and your husband went into the Navy, then what did you do? CG: Hon, I know one thing. He didn’t want me in no Army. He wanted me home. So that when he called, I was staying with Mama, when he called home, I was home. He did not want me in no Army. (40:15) CC: So did you have any children with this husband? CG: Yes. We got a son. CC: A son. And what’s your son’s name? CG: Robert. CC: Is Robert still alive? CG: He better be. (laughter) The last time I talked to him, he was alive. CC: Okay. Where does Robert live? CG: He’s in down south. CC: Does he ever come see you? CG: Oh, hon, this is a child that they got their own life now. And I has always told him, I want you all to go on and live your life. Don’t feel like you got to be under me all the time. Uncle Sam got me. The VA got me. So, they, we call and talk but we don’t stay on each other. �(41:11) SS: So where’s your husband at now? CG: Oh, honey, he didn’t get any work. [unclear] months pregnant. SS: Are you divorced? CG: Yeah. Another lady about twenty months pregnant. SS: So when did you come here? CG: Oh, I came here…my sister-in-law got me here. ‘Cause I was in Muskegon, ‘cause I had got remarried. I’m fitting to divorce his butt. I don’t want any more conversation on that. Case closed. CC: Case closed. Okay, Carolyn. Well, it’s kinda been fun talking to you, Carolyn. And we’ll bring you a copy of this interview. CG: I sure do want a copy. (42:01) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_GreeneC0322V Title A name given to the resource Greene, Carolyn (Interview transcript and video), 2006 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-08-21 Description An account of the resource Carolyn Greene was born in Jackson, Mississippi on June 23, 1948. Her father was in the US Air Force and she grew up where he was stationed at Kessler Air Force Base in Mississippi. When Carolyn was a teenager she was active in the Civil Rights Movement, working with the Freedom Riders, NAACP, and even got to meet Martin Luther King. She enlisted in the Army in 1972 after graduating from college, and went through basic training in Fort Jackson in South Carolina. She then went to Fort Rucker in Alabama where she took AIT classes and spent the rest of her service working in an office. In the interview, she notes continuing problems with racism in Alabama and some of the problems that returning veterans from Vietnam brought with them. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Greene, Carolyn Annette Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/467e1f81c392f600b0d13b429929e637.mp4 cdf92e2b15775affa2a93c4e6b70e3b4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74cbcb312fc1cb31a39709f3634a27e9.pdf 366c3ede87a7e7288c3c179b4428873d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Paul Bailey Interview Length: (01:09:36) Interviewed by Dr. James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Interviewer: We’re talking today with Paul Bailey of Grand Rapids, Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, Paul, start us off with some background on yourself and begin with where and when you were born? I was born in Lansing, Michigan. My father was a tool and die maker in a factory. Interviewer: Okay, what year were you born? 1936. Interviewer: Okay. So, had you father had steady employment in the thirties? Pretty much, tool and die maker; my whole family was mechanical, my grandfather was a blacksmith. So, everybody built things so becoming a tool/ die maker was natural for him. He quit school in the eighth grade and went to work in the shop. And he was never unemployed as far as I know, he always had work as a tool and die maker. Interviewer: Alright now, you were a little kid during World War II. Do you remember much about life at that time? (01.00) �Yeah, I do. I remember my father was an air raid warden captain and he had these big steel helmets that people had to wear during air raid warden time. And when they would have these blackouts in the city of Lansing, everybody had to turn all of their lights out and if they had a light on, they were supposed to cover it with a blanket. And then the air raid wardens would go out and check on the residents who might have a leaky light coming in somewhere that they forgot to turn off. But then after the war we remember playing with those white helmets. They were steel helmets, they were very heavy, but as kids you play with those helmets. They were white and had that civil defense symbol on the front of them. That was kind of interesting times growing up. Interviewer: Now, as you were getting older and towards the end of the war, were you kind of following at all the news of the war? What was going on? (02.03) Not really because I would’ve been in junior high school or elementary school at that time and well my brother who was ten years older was in the war. He was in the navy all during that time. He guarded prisoners in Jacksonville, Florida; German prisoners that had been brought to this country. Interviewer: Alright, now let’s see, so when did you finish high school? 1954. Interviewer: Okay, now so you had been in high school during the time the Korean War was going on? Yes. Interviewer: Alright, now while that was going on, were you expecting it to last long enough for you to be drafted and go in it? Or did you not think about that? �I never thought about that, I just felt it was sort of my duty to join the army and get it over with. So, I enlisted before I... while I was in high school, so that I graduated on Friday night and left for the army Monday morning. (03.01) Interviewer: Okay and then that’s back in 1954, so that’s the year after the Korean War Armistice is in place anyway, at that point; was there still a lot of people getting drafted at that time? There were, there were a lot of people in my first companies that were draftees and so I had sort of wanted to become a member of the Michigan State Police, but that wasn’t in the cards at that time. So that's when I opted to become a military policeman. That was my goal. Interviewer: Okay, now was that preference that you indicated when you enlisted? Or did you decide on that later? I decided on that before I enlisted. I wanted to go to the military police school. So of course, they sent me to Camp Chaffee Arkansas for basic training. Then when we had two weeks off and then we went to work in Fort Gordon, Georgia. (04:07) Interviewer: Okay, well back up and talk a little bit about the basic training experience. What was personally Camp Chaffee like? Hot! Being from Michigan, it was hot. I never got… my skin used to just prickle from the heat. We trained, we had to get up at two o'clock in the morning to go to training because after ten or eleven o’clock, it was just absolutely too hot to train. I remember even when we did train, they lined us up, made us take our outer shirts off and just t-shirts then they’d �hose us down with water to keep us from... keep us hydrated and so on. At that time, they had Lister bags full of salt water the thing was you had to take and drink salt water that tasted terrible. But they said we need to drink it to remain hydrated. One night it went down to 70 and we closed all the windows and were freezing it went down to 70 it had been in the 90s and 100s all eight weeks that I was there. Very, very hot and in Michigan we don’t have hot weather like that. I was… I remember trying to write a letter home and the sweat just rolled down my arm to my elbow and the paper I was writing on was all wet. Of course, there wasn’t that much air conditioning, nothing was air conditioned in those days. I mean there were a few things that were air conditioned, but nothing like we have today. (05.32) Interviewer: The barracks weren’t air conditioned or anything else like that? No, the barracks weren’t air conditioned. Interviewer: All right, now what did the actual training consist of? A whole lot of marching and learning to shoot and you know rifle marksmanship and physical fitness and you know it was pretty- it was tough training. But the toughest part was the heat and you had to lay down and the rifle ranges had cinders that you laid down in the daytime those would get very, very hot. They were still hot early in the morning when we would go out to train. And you know the road marches where you’d put all your stuff on your back and carry it. They actually limited some of those because of the heat. (06:21) Interviewer: How easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the army? �I don’t really remember that being a big adjustment. I guess my hall was fairly well disciplined and so getting in the army I just accepted taking orders and I never was very resistant to anything, I just kind of went with the program. Interviewer: Did you notice any of the other recruits having problems either with the physical side or the discipline or anything else? There were some issues with some of the other guys, some of the fellows had not been used to taking orders and they had some resistance issues with the drill sergeants which didn’t go over well with anybody. Sometimes the whole platoon would be punished because of somebody that stepped out of line and didn’t do something right. Interviewer: At the time you were going through, did you have any black recruits training along with you? Or where you a white? You know I’m trying to think back, I don't think there were any blacks in basic training. I think in MP (military police) school there was. Not in basic training. (07.36) Interviewer: Alright, so again tell us how long basic training lasts? Eight weeks. Interviewer: Eight weeks, okay. Then Fort Gordon Georgia was your next stop? Eight weeks. Interviewer: And that’s your advanced training now? For the military police. Interviewer: Okay so what did that consist of? That consisted of a lot of learning Judo hand to hand combat. Training in the 45 pistol and some laws and rudimentary things about apprehension. How to handle ourselves in �difficult situations. That was also very rigorous physically because the school thought we needed to be tough. If you’re going to be a military policeman you’ve got to be able to stand up to anybody and you don't just take any crap from anybody. You have to stand up and you might have to put them down. Physical fitness, I remember before we could eat, we had to do chin ups and the first time I showed off and I did 17 chin ups and so the next time I went to eat he said now you have to do 19. And I said that was dumb, I shouldn’t have done 17 the first time because every time I went to chow, they made you do more than you did the first time. And if you didn't do more than you’d drop down and do 20 pushups or 30 pushups. If they thought, you needed more they’d give you more pushups. Before you could go eat! And one of the things there sometimes at the end of the day, after a day’s training, they still needed somebody to go on and sort of be KP for the night. They would go through and if you had just a little fold in your pocket that would be enough to send you to KP. When they couldn’t find anything wrong, they would ask you to turn your belt buckle inside out and if you sweat that day, it’d be a little corroded and give you KP. So, they'd always have to find something to get someone go on KP every night. And you just hoped somebody got nicked before you did. They’d go down the line and of course of you had a pocket flap that was unbuttoned they’d come down and rip the pocket flap off and say, “get that sewed up before tomorrow.” It was a spit and polish outfit. Because we had everything, everything we had had to be polished, and so some of the guys would polish one set of boots and really make them stand tall, put them under the bunk and leave them that way. Well they wanted you to wear one pair one day and one pair the next, so they’d marked them, then if they’d come in that morning and if your marked boots were there then you got gigged and sent for KP that night. Because you had to switch, you had to keep �all your shoes polished. And they had the foot lockers, had to be laid out just so. Every item in the foot locker was a diagram and every item shaver, toothpaste, everything had to be in a very- your socks, everything had to be just exactly in the right spot. And so, our barracks were inspected every day. And I remember one night I had guard duty I think it was and that night and I walked in one night. And so, my… I carried my rifle and when I got in that morning, they said you were in charge of quarters, so they always left one soldier back as everyone went to training. So, if you went back if that was your job to spiff up, do the lastminute polishing on everything in the barracks so that it would pass inspection, we were inspected every day. So, I got the barracks all ready for inspection and lo and behold my company commander was teaching a class on how to inspect that morning so he had a bunch of students, he had a bunch of lieutenants that he was bringing through and showing them how to inspect. And he says, “for example, Bailey get your rifle out and show them your rifle.” Well I knew my rifle wasn't cleaned because I had been out in the elements all night and so there was just a hair of rust on it, I mean you couldn't hardly see it, but they noticed it. And then he put white gloves on and he went over all the windowsills and doors to see if there was any dust that I had missed. I had already- I had knew he'd do that so I had already dusted everything- cleaned everything, everything else was right, so the only thing he found wrong was my rifle and it’s just because I was working as fast as I could to get it ready and they came in kind of unexpected for the inspection so I wasn't quite finished yet. And my rifle was the only one in the rack since everybody else was out training yet. So, I remember that very distinguished. Then when I went to eat lunch, the commander called me over to his table and I thought oh I was going to get it again. Then he said- then he apologized to me, he said “we took unfair advantage and you were on guard �duty all night. And you… once the inspections over you can go back to bed and sleep.” So, he apologized for catching me off guard and making me feel kind of stupid on the spur of the moment. He said, “we won't hold that against you.” But MP school was supposed to be very tough and very demanding… and because we were expected to be a really good examples of the military. Interviewer: Right Like I said our uniforms are supposed to be impeccable at all times and we’re just supposed to be tough. That’s all there was to it. (13.34) Interviewer: Okay, now while you’re at Fort Gordon did you get a chance to go off the base at all? Or did you just stay there? Never did, never did. Never left the base and I- I didn't do it in basic training either and I never left the base and then I think, I think I went right from there to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Interviewer: Okay so that’s your first regular assignment then? First regular assignment. Interviewer: So, what was at Fort Jackson at that point? Actually, The First Airborne Division was there. The Screaming Eagle. Interviewer: Okay, so the 101st? The 101st yeah. The only- I did regular MP duty there, but because it was my first assignment, I worked with a Sergeant, he taught me the ins and outs of MP patrol and that sort of thing. And I do remember one really humorous incident there. Was for some reason or other the army always paid in cash. So, we had… before pay day there was, they'd bring �in just a huge amount of cash and just set it on the table, they didn’t have vaults for it or anything. And they- some other recruit who just ... who didn't know anything about the army I don't think I mean it was very basic recruit. They told him to go to the finance building and guard the money. Well it’s pretty boring on a military base at night because things are very very quiet, and this guy decided... And they gave him what’s called a military grease gun which he was not trained in. And about two o’clock in the morning, he decided to experiment with the grease gun and he shot and hit one of the fire extinguishers which was one of those soda acid fire extinguishers and bounced it off the wall and made a mess in, in there. And I was on duty that night and we get a call, shots fired at the finance building. So, we had all kinds of MPs, every MP that was on duty proceeded to the finance building and when I got there, I was on the outer perimeter patrol and when I got there they had him in custody already and he was just apologizing and he was just scared to death of what he had done. And because we had commanders and colonels and generals and everybody showing up at the finance building, finance officers, what could possibly go wrong? And some guy just got bored in the middle of the night and shot the fire extinguisher and that’ll get your attention. So, that was kind of humorous when it was all said and done. (16.19) Interviewer: So, what were your regular duties at Fort Jackson? Well just, we patrol, patrol the base and if somebody was speeding, we’d stop and write them an apprehension of- a disciplinary report and send it to their company. And we would check vehicles and if there was like I say a traffic accident that was our responsibility. We didn’t really have a lot of crime, once in a while there was a crime. �Deputy sheriff from the local town chased someone onto The Fort Stewart one time. He said the guy was shooting back at him and they called us in, those of us that were off duty got called in that day and told ya know, grab a car and start looking for this guy and I don't remember if we ever found him, but we decided that the sheriff had shot his own car, that the guy didn’t shoot at him. All the bullets were on the fender of that old Chevrolet and they were all within inches apart, so we figured he was shooting out the window and shot his own car. But that was kind of humorous. Interviewer: Did you have any problems with any of the soldiers fighting or getting drunk or things like that? (17.40) Once in a while- once in a while but usually our presence would... they knew that they were in trouble when we got there. And even though the army wasn't segregated, it was as far, at that time, and as far as the military police. Because when the black MPs went into the black community we were told to stay out. We didn’t- unless they called us in there we did not go into the black community. Interviewer: Okay so this is if you’re going off base to bring back people? In Hinesville Georgia and other places, maybe surrounding communities around Hinesville Georgia or black MPs or black soldier might live or might be. But the black soldiers handle the black soldiers at that time. Interviewer: So, by this time, was it you were definitely noticing being in the segregated south at this point? Oh yes. �Interviewer: Okay, had you observed that being in other places? Or really is it only when you got to South Carolina that you noticed it because you got off base? (18.38) Again, in South Carolina, I didn’t get off base much, and- but I did notice that there was segregation mean the remnants of it, if it wasn't there it was- you know it was evident, well in Georgia there was white drinking fountains and whites only and colored was around the corner so I did notice that and... Interviewer: And did they have that kind of thing on the bases? Or just off base? No no no just off base, no things like that on the base. And you know we lived with black soldiers in the barracks and... Cause in 1956 I got married and so we were living in married housing and so there were no problems of course as far as married housing. Interviewer: But it’s still a situation that in the 50s the south is still segregated... Jim Crow is still in place, but it doesn't affect, but the army is already past that. We were pretty well integrated at that time yeah. Interviewer: How long did you wind up spending at Fort Jackson? I think just a few months. Maybe two or three months because… let’s see that would have been… probably a few months, probably because I left Fort Jackson and went to… to Korea. (19.56) Interviewer: Okay, alright, now were you expecting to get an overseas assignment, or did it just come out of the blue? Well this, this was kind of funny too because I walked in, they said there’s, there's some opening if any of you want to go to the Far East. And I thought Far East man, I was �thinking Japan. And I heard so much, so many good things about Japan and I thought I'd like to go to japan. So, I went in to sign up and the sergeant said, you're already signed up, you were going anyway. So, it was a fore got conclusion. So, when I got to Fort Lewis Washington, I was in J company and J company meant you were going to Japan. Well Fort Lewis Washington there’s thousands of soldiers. And they asked about while, probably fifty or a hundred of us to go down and work KP and consolidated mess hall. So, we went down to the consolidated mess hall about five o’clock in the morning and about nine o'clock at night we got back and when we got back he said all you guys are in J company are not in K company. Pick up all your stuff and you’ve got three blocks down the street to go and when you see a big barracks and it says K company that's where you're going to be. And I said J company, K company there’s a big switch here. And then the rumor was true, we were all going to Korea. So, when we got on the- finally got on the boat. All these same guys that were on the boat going to J company were on the boat with us. And then there were guys going to Alaska, so our ship when we left Fort Lewis Washington was going to Alaska, dropped off a bunch of troops in Alaska. Which is a site I'll never forget because the snow was so deep, they were shoveling it with dump trucks. They literally backed into the snowbank and brought it down and dropped it in the ocean. You’d see these little specks up there and you’d see the tops of a Quonset hut sticking out and all these little specs were shovels. There's two or three hundred guys up there shoveling snow, so it was deep snow. So, we got through that, but it was a beautiful country but just the snow was really deep. So then from there we landed in Sasebo, Japan and they let us off the troop ship for a while and we got a little tour of Sasebo, so we found out that they drive all horn and no brakes. And so, I went to the telephone exchange, I think that’s what they called it �back then. And they had these sound proof booths that I could call home and say I’m in Japan and so I called home and it cost, at the time it seemed like it cost $35.00 for my phone for my call collect and that was a lot of money for a three- or four-minute phone call. But I wanted to; it had been a long time since I'd called. Anyway, they suffered because the phone call caused them a big bundle and then from there on, we landed in Incheon, Korea and they loaded us on cattle trucks, open cattle trucks. And we stood with our- we got in there as tight as we could, we stood with our sea bags in front of us with everything we owned in the sea bag and then a guy yelled I think we can get six more on here, pull ahead and jam on the brakes. So he pulled ahead and jammed on the breaks and we all slid forward, just a foot or so, and a few inches but that was enough to get six or more guys on there and then we went to the- from there we went to some kind of distribution hub and then they put us on trains and I got to the 7th Division, they sent me to the replacement company and the seventh division. They said, “where are ya headed” and I said, “I’m an MP.” “Well they’ll be down to get you tomorrow morning. You're going to stay here for the night, besides you’re on guard duty.” He handed me a M1 rifle and about fifty rounds of ammunition and my instructions that night where to shoot anything that moves. And here I was just ya know an eighteen-year-old kid just out of high school handed an M1 rifle and all this ammunition and a bandolier of ammunition and told to shoot anything that moved. And I grew up hunting and I said I don't shoot anything unless I got a target, ya know I just don’t shoot. And they put me guarding a POL dump which is just a bunch of barrels of diesel oil and gasoline and it was probably fifty feet square maybe, and they said, “you guard that was down on the bottom of a river bed.” And it was a full moon night, I could see good down there in the middle of the night and about one thirty, two o’clock in �the morning some guy up on top of the hill started shooting: “boom boom bang boom bang boom bang.” Then he yelled down to me, he said, “it’s coming your way,” I could see clear there was nothing coming my way, but I was, you know, I was ready to shoot if I had to but I didn't see anything to shoot at, so I didn’t shoot. When my shift ended, I got up there and the guy said, “didn’t you see him?” And I said “no, nothing came down that riverbed I can tell ya I could see that clear as daylight, nobody came down that riverbed.” Well he’s, he was really angry with me that I didn't shoot. And I said I’m not gonna shoot that, I wasn’t gonna shoot… unless there was a target. But we were- when we first got there, we were infiltrated with slicky boys from Korea that came in and would steal everything we had, they'd steal you blind. And so that was my opening night in Korea was hearing all that gun fire and it went on all night long. I mean, after... you're on two hours you’re off four hours, you’re on two hours or two and two something like that and everybody else fired their rifle but I never fired a shot because I didn’t see anything to shoot at and I wasn’t just going to shoot to. (26.17) Interviewer: Now what time of year was it when you got there? March. March in the spring and they always had their floods in May. Their monsoon season in April and May. Interviewer: Okay alright, so were you just there at that depot overnight and move on to your unit then? Yeah, I got to my unit the next morning. And then they give you orientation at the unit just kind of put you in a Jeep and drive you around, show you everything. I think my other experience was these, we lived in tents and our water came in five-gallon water, military �water jugs. And I had a canteen with a cup and I poured the water into the canteen and said there was a bunch of stuff floating around in there and I went to pour it out and a guy goes “don’t pour that our, that's what we drink.” So, I said “well mine has a bunch of hunks in it.” And he said, “it all has hunks in it, that’s your drinking water.” So, I drank the water, didn't throw it out, or I did throw that last little bit out, but the water wasn’t exactly pristine, let's put it that way. Interviewer: Okay well was this just stuff from the inside of the container or was it …? (27.36) No, I think- I don’t know where they got the water, someone said they got it out of the river and then they ran it though kind of a purification deal, but it was canvas bags with stuff in it and then, and then it went into one of the big water tanks. Each company went over and got their water tank filled and then they’d bring it back and they'd fill these five-gallon jugs from that water tank. Each barrack had a five-gallon water jug. I think when I first got there, we didn't have showers either and so then they built a shower and then we could go take showers and that helped a lot to get that in there. There wasn't much water when we first got there. All our milk was in cans. Everything was pretty spark less put it that way. And they announced one time that the PX down near the headquarters company was going to have ice cream and that was several months after I’d been there, they announced ice cream. And so, I think I was on duty that day and they said we need at least twenty-five MPs down there because these troops are really getting anxious about having some ice cream or milkshake or something like that. So, it was kind of, it got a little testy there for a while and the military people pull a rank so if a private’s in line, and a sergeant comes along, and they say get back I’m getting in there first. Well we went down there, and we �tried to sort that all out and nobody was happy. And I think there was some, there was some fights, we had to make a few apprehensions and then I got assigned to the desk, so I was a desk, like a desk sergeant for a while. We ran out of Sergeants we didn’t have any sergeants so they, if you were a specialist, they pulled you off and made you a desk sergeant. Even though you didn’t have the rank even though there were desk sergeant. So, everybody that was apprehended or whatever had to commend me, and I'd do the paperwork on them. (30.06) Interviewer: Okay, now were you close to the DMZ where you were? Yes. Well, yeah, the DMZ runs at a funny angle across Korea, so we were, we figured six miles the way the crow flies to North Korea. I don’t know how long the DMZ is or how wide it is but there were minefields all over the place that were still there that had never been cleared and so there was a few people that got killed in mine fields while I was there. But just knew better than to step out there. In fact, a major came in and borrowed one of our shotguns to go pheasant hunting and he shot a peasant and went down in the minefield and the guy knew better, don't walk on a mine field to get a pheasant it isn’t worth it, and it blew him up and killed him. And so, it’s you know… people did some dumb things. As far as minefield, I had two experiences in the minefield; that one and a guy took a prostitute down to a mind field and they all blew up and some, a couple of them survived but the one guy lost his man hood for sure and the one guy will never- well the one guy was dead and one lost his manhood and a woman lost a hip and I was personally involved in that one because I had to go out and help them extract the remains out of there and it was at night and we couldn't see and so we had flashlights and a bayonet poking the ground �and making sure you don't hit something and you hit a stone and you sort of sweat in all joints. But the medics were there, and a couple of engineers were there and they probed it and staked it out and then we extracted the bodies all out of there. But just people did some dumb things when they… (32.12) Interviewer: Alright, now was there villages or a town nearby? People go off base and get themselves in trouble or? Everything around us was considered off limits. Interviewer: Okay So, we patrolled those areas. So, any time and of course they were inhabited by prostitutes and we knew we put a bunch of twenty thousand soldiers over there they’re going to look for women so it’s a no-win situation. The nearest town to where I was in Camp Casey was Dongducheon and the nick name for it was little Chicago. And when… in order to get into the town by the road off the MSR, main supply route it required four-wheel drive and low range. I mean, it was so pitted and bottomed out that there wasn’t, there wasn’t any smooth road, it was up and down and then when you got in there the roads were okay, the streets were okay, but we patrolled those mostly on foot and we’d take our jeeps as far as we could go and then we'd just look for any evidence of GIs being in there and then we’d find them apprehend them, take them out of there but there were other villages I don't know their names but a lot of the little villages around the hills that we also went looking for people… Interviewer: Straying soldiers? (33.48) �Straying soldiers, right. Interviewer: Alright, now were the North Koreans making much trouble at this point? Occasionally when I first got there we would get unidentified flying aircraft coming through and we actually had a pillbox in our compound and when we’d get a call of and unidentified flying object or an unidentified airplane we were required to go get out fifty caliber submachine gun and set it up on the tripod and arm it and of course by the time we did all that that plane was south of Seoul probably, and we were twenty-eight miles south of Seoul, so we had to go through that routinely and it was kind of, that’s where the physical really comes in because a fifty caliber submachine gun I don't know how much weight, but it seems like about a hundred pounds. And you carry that from the arms room a couple hundred yards to the pill box and you set it up and then we got it too, so we didn’t load it. We just carried the ammo because we figured by the time, we’d see that plane it’s all over anyways. We were just too close to North Korea like, but I said by the time you get the warning it'd be all over with. Interviewer: Okay, but as far as you know where the North Koreans doing any snipping or sending any artillery shells your way or anything like that? (35.15) They had skirmishes with the South Koreans at the DMZ, there were several little skirmishes where they would just tough each other and shoot back and forth across the DMZ but it wasn’t- you didn’t hear too much about it. You'd hear about it in a hind sight but the news, it was very slow with something like that but if somebody tried to escape and go to North Korea then we pulled out all the plugs and we, we would, the US army would really come to a full alert if there was somebody making any kind of an aggressive move �towards North Korea. Every once in a while somebody would say “I’ve had it with the US army or whatever and I’m going to North Korea.” Well we would do everything possible to stop that from occurring. We would hunt that person down and catch them. Interviewer: Do you know if there were any that actually made it? I don't think anybody made it. We did, we lost one of our MPs and he got off on his own and I think he was captured by the North Koreans, but he made a lot of bad moves and we found his Jeep and that’s all we ever found of him. Never heard what- never heard what happened to him or anything. Interviewer: Alright and then how long did you spend in Korea? Sixteen months from shore to shore. Interviewer: Aright and then over the course of that time what particular events or things stand out in your memory that we haven’t talked about yet? (37.00) Oh I think the flood was interesting, when it was flooding our whole intersection flooded and we were at T intersection in which we had a traffic control post up on a tower like and we would signal the traffic so on, and so during that flood I got flooded in and so I realized there was about three foot of water below me that wasn't there when I climbed up in there. And that was a little tricky to know where the ditches were and where the road was because I had to walk a couple hundred yards back to my compound. The compound was dry but between the compound and the road it was under water. The other- the other crazy thing that happened, this was before the flood, I'm up there directing traffic one time and I see this two and a half ton truck come by and there's a guy I went to high school with in the back of the truck and he was with the quartermaster company which was just over the hill �because we had an air strip right there with a small reconnaissance plane you know 19s now 20s but he was in the quartermaster companies just across- wasn't that far away. That was kind of funny. One other story about Korea that I remember vividly, we went- we went on big whack so we’d been on the big whack and they said okay we’re moving and so we moved, it was at night, we got to this new place at night, set up our tents at night. Everything was at night, so we all went to bed and soon got our tents set up. And then early in the morning, I guess we were there a couple of days. The first morning I got up and I - I walked out to the road didn't have any idea where we were because we... from there we didn’t get out of our compound that much, so we were out in the middle of nowhere as far as I was concerned, but still in Korea of course. And being an MP I see this jeep coming down the road just absolutely speeding, really flat out. And so, I stepped out into the road and I flagged him down and here was a man severely injured laying in the front of the Jeep. And I knew that there was a medic station right there where we were, so I said, “we got medics right here.” So, I rushed him in there and he said, “we need a helicopter.” So, we had these cranks via field telephones and we were on bivouac and we had new code names on bivouac. So, I knew the code name because I’d called a helicopter before. I knew the code name was Nashville, so I said, “give me Nashville” and they said, “we can't do that” and I said- they said, “it’s a term we can’t use” I said, “don't give me any crap I have an injured man and I need a helicopter right now.” So, he talked to somebody and said put him through to Nashville, so he put me through to Nashville. With a helicopter attachment 1212 back to the hospital in Uijeongbu. And he said, “so what do you need.” I said, “I've got a man down.” He said, “where are you?” I said “about ten/ twelve miles west of Uijeongbu on this road there's this a school across the street that we built. Looks like a �brand-new school.” And he said, “we’re on the way.” So, I hung up that field telephone, I looked at my watch and it was ten o'clock in the morning exactly, he said- and then the guide told me to throw out a smoke flair to signal the helicopter, so I went over to the medics and said, “you got a smoke flair?” “Yup.” I said, “hand it to me.” So, I'm standing there waiting to pull the pin on the smoke flair. While were all standing there, they're working on this guy, getting him ready to go to the hospital and by the time I heard the helicopter, it was over us. So, I pull the pin on the smoke flair and flew it out, he may want it’s help to set this helicopter down. The medics loaded him on, they had ladders on both sides of the bell helicopter, they loaded him on and he said, “okay, we’re on our way” and I looked up and he was on the way. I looked at my watch and it was ten after ten. In ten minutes, they were on their way. Interviewer: They’d gotten good at that. Alright, did you have Koreans working on the base? Oh yes. Interviewer: And what kinds of work did they do? Mostly kitchen and housing keeping service. Of course, they had- one as a servant in the office quarters. He got into trouble, he urinated in their orange juice. They looked for him and we never did find him because... (laughter). He was given the death sentence, they wouldn't have killed him, but they probably would have tried, but they weren't too happy about that. (42.00) Interviewer: And did you have any Korean soldiers who were assigned to you. Yeah we had what you called Katusas and yeah the Katusas, they drank in the same barracks with us, we got along great with the caduceus. They were wonderful Korean �people and at that time I didn't like Korean food, and they would come back smelling of Korean food, you could smell them when they’d come in the barracks, “what have you been eating?” “Oooh good kimchi,” yeah well, they didn’t use breath mints either and so you could smell those guys when they’d go on out leave and come back, because oh man they reeked, and I’ve since learned to love that food myself, so it’s… it’s very healthy for you. But, but when it was Korean help, I noticed their diet was almost- almost one hundred, almost 100% rice. I mean they would eat a wash basin full of rice for lunch and a few vegetables but mostly rice. They’d bring rice in by big bags and they’d cook it themselves and use chopsticks they’d eat a lot of rice the help did. Interviewer: Now were these guys also working as MPs? (43.24) The Katusas were MPs, we worked with them and it was nice, I really appreciated working with them because they could work enough English so that we could get by and they taught us a little Korean so that we could understand a little Korean. Interviewer: If you went patrolling in the village and things would they come along? Oh yeah, oh yeah, and they were- they were good ambassadors but they were also, they saw something that was wrong, they would- they would make the Koreans toe the line I mean they didn’t- they didn’t take any nonsense from anybody but they were very friendly and the people were friendly towards them and they sort of knew who the Koreans that were troublemakers. And they would say “that bad person” or something like that. And we didn’t really, we didn't have too many conflicts because they settled all those conflicts. �Interviewer: Right. Now you mentioned when you were there that the first night about the people who would try to come in and steal things and so forth, was that going on on the days… was that going on on the base? Yeah, they were, that's why we had perimeter guards, all our compounds had perimeter guards. And some of the help would steal things, even the help would… and when the help would leave, the MP company stayed, the MP company was right next to the MSR so all the people in the divisionary, the help would walk past our guard shack leaving. And it, it became routine for us to check, they would steal, they would take stuff like grease drippings from the bacon, they’d have a whole pail of just grease or cooking leftovers and our routine was to take a stick and poke those buckets because often times there might have been a pistol or a rifle parts, or some other contraband in that grease down at the bottom. And so, then we apprehend those and turn those over to the Korean police. We had a good relationship with the Korean national police. They were-they were extremely brutal, the Korean national police, the corporal punishment was routine and if you stepped out of line, they would kill you, there was not no ifs ands or buts about it. They would shoot and ask questions later. And I stood next to a Korean policeman who was aiming at a Korean who was running and the guy standing next to me bumped him just as he shot and it really made the Korean policeman angry, because he knew it, we didn’t want to just stand there and see someone shot, but he said that that guy was a gangster and he needed to be shot and so he was angry with us for not letting him kill him and we were just, we were just too easy going I guess at that point. (46.29) �Interviewer: Now did you get to go any further? Than the local towns. Did you get into Uijeongbu or Seoul or anywhere? Well I went to Uijeongbu with just a national police station and then one on a Sunday afternoon because I was admitted to go into the village. I took my camera and sort of made it a- a of course at that time you take thirty-five-millimeter slides. I took about a hundred slides of typical Korean when I was there, and I’ve been thinking about getting those transferred onto a CD or something because there’s a way you can do that, or something like that. But I got a nice little trip that showed Koreans in their natural habitat and I had one other instance when I, I almost cry when I tell it, but we’re one patrol at night and there was a group of us, MPs and we had- we had these guys sort of cornered so there was probably ten of us MPS and we were moving in to make an apprehension. And just as we came out of the corner there were little Korean children by a small light. They were singing, “jingle bells” in Korean, “nahhnoonahhh” and we just stopped, all of us just stopped. We just pulled out C rations and gave them candy bars, forget the guys. We just sit and sat there and talked to those, I mean they couldn't speak, they couldn’t speak any English but of course there was a lot of, what do you call it, Eurasians or something you know. The children of GIs and they were outcasts of Korea they... Koreans didn’t want them, so it was a real real problem… but children left over from the GIs of the war and some of them wouldn’t have been there when I was there. I mean cause I wasn’t there that long. Interviewer: Yeah (48.33) �But that was a very touching story and I’ve told it a lot of times, we just we forget, we quit chasing the bad guys and we sat there with those children and we melted to hear Jingle Bells, when we haven't heard anything like that in months! Even though they were singing in Korean, we understood what they... we knew the tune. That was one of those night time experiences. Interviewer: Alright, and did you get any leave time or R and R or anything like that? We did, we- I got to Japan and that was a very very nice experience at the special experience I got to go to a services hotel. The second time I got to go to Japan, our orders came in late in the day and so we’re hitchhiking to Inchon to Kimpo to get a flight out to Japan to Inchon and the military kind of shuts down in the evening so here comes this Korean civilian Jeep and we were kind of apprehensive, and the guy sitting in the front seat says “jump in, where are you going?” and I said, “we’re going to Kimpo.” Well he says, “my name is Dr. Charles W Choi” and he says, “I went to Syracuse University I’m a professor…” and he went on and he was a professor of engineering or something like that and I thought well this is great and he said, “I'm going to Seoul but my driver will take you on out there” he said, “I did a lot of hitchhiking when I was in your country.” He said, “when you get to Japan look up my family because I’ve got a couple of daughters.” I said oh boy just an old boy from Alabama and, this is really a set up. So we got to Japan and I made a call and called his family, they invited me out, I had to take a train out there, found the family, they invited me in, of course I had to take my shoes off at the door and that sort of thing, in the military you wore your boots all the time. I took my boots off at the door, then they fed me some banana stuff I’d never eaten before, but it was alright I mean… and he said, “my daughter will take you around and show you the sights of Tokyo.” So, I went with her and she ordered a cab driver, it wasn’t really a date, it was sort of an excursion. My buddy from Alabama, he didn’t go, it was just as well because he kind of stayed drunk most of the time while we were over there, and I think he would have spoiled the whole thing. But for me it was very educational, experience, I really appreciated the family and it was nothing sexual or anything about that encounter. It was just a very nice family and they took us in and it was just very very nice to me and so that was a very interesting experience when you’re scared to death to get in a civilian, Korean civilian Jeep, because you don’t know who... who’s back there because the people who can afford a jeep can be really bad people at that time. And we were unarmed cause we’re going… most of the time we carried out arms with us all the time but when you’re going on an R and R and you have to check your arms- in the arms room. But yeah that was a- that was an experience to meet a professor from Syracuse University. We’d taken his training there. (52.08) Interviewer: Now how much communication did you have with people back home while you were in Korea? �Mostly letters and then my mother would send packages and send cookies that always went over good, sometimes if... they were, they were mostly crumbs by the time they got there but if she sent them on aluminum you could make a funnel out of it and eat the crus. But they didn’t survive the bouncing around at the military post office. Interviewer: Alright, now do you also, aside from pictures, picked up at least one souvenir out of Korea, and you’ve actually got it over here and if you wanted to pick it up and... Hold it up high enoughThere was a Korean craftsman who came around andInterviewer: could you hold it up a little bit higher? There we go, yeah. And he said, write down on a piece of paper my name and what I want on it and he said for two cartons of cigarettes I’ll do this. So, he said you give me one carton now and when I come back, give me another carton, so I did, and I kept this ever since. Interviewer: Alright so it’s got your name on it, identifies your unit and it’s got the US flag and the UN flag and the South Korean one on it. What else have you got on the bottom there? Just the years I was there, oh that’s the hourglass divisions is the 7th Division patch, and they cross pistols are indication of the MPs and then the(53.44) Interviewer: Right, you’ve got your dragon through the whole thing. Alright, we got that okay. Alright so when do you then get to leave Korea? When did what? When did you get to go back to the states? I got back in June of ‘56. Interviewer: Okay and how much time did you have left on the enlistment? �Seems like about a year, so I went there then I went to Fort Stewart Georgia and resumed military police patrol duties. Interviewer: Okay now was that when you got married when you were back in Fort Stewart? Yes As opposed to being in Fort- because you mentioned being married back at Fort Jackson. Well between Korea and Fort Stewart. Interviewer: Okay, so did you- did they give you some leave time when you got back from Korea right? Yes, I got I think I got, I don't know how much I- we got. Interviewer: Okay, alright and so what was that last year at Fort Stewart like? Well that was just normal police duties and of course driving cars, which I’d been driving Jeeps for six months now I get a car, that was different. Again, the military police is fairly well disciplined place so if somebody steps out of line, you know you’re right there, you writing them up. Then of course we also had civilian traffic at Fort Stewart, so we, we apprehended a lot people who were hunting on the military reservation illegally and then the federal majesty would come in hold court and we'd have to go and testify that we caught this person and he was- the fines for hunting illegally on military reservation was very steep, even at that time. In fact, they would confiscate their shotguns, their rifles and sometimes it’d be a thousand dollar fine and I’ve seen them pulled a thousand dollars out of their wallet and pay their fine, but I didn’t see- I never seen anyone go to jail but trespassing on a military reservation was... Interviewer: So, these were not just poor people looking for dinner? (55.56) �No, these are… well I don’t think those people we caught, that was two hundred eighty thousand acres down there in that Fort Stewart and we did- there were some illegal moonshining going on out there in the reservation and I wasn't involved in catching it but we went out there one time to try to apprehend people who were, who had a still back there. But by the time, by the time we got the word they were going on the raid, they, they had the word that we were on the way and they were long gone. There was- you can’t surprise anyone down there that’s in that business, they, they have a second sense that they've been caught, so they flee long before we get there. But it was a large military reservation and there were some bad accidents down there and that sort of thing but other than that... (57.00) Interviewer: Okay and then your wife was living with you on the base with you at that point? Yes, we lived in married housing. Interviewer: Okay did she have a job of some kind? She worked on the base at the health center, she was a secretary in the health center. She had to get used to the differences in languages of people down there and people said, “go out and roll your glasses up” and she said “glasses?” And they meant the windows in the car, they were referring to the windows in your car. There was a lot of little terminology that we had to learn moving to a different part of the country. Interviewer: and did the army make any effort to encourage you to stay in? Oh yeah, they really put the heat on at the very end. They give me all kinds of incentives, and I said no I don't think so. You know, so I said, I would reenlist if they would send me to CID school, criminal investigation. “Well that school’s been full for several years they only �take so many candidates.” I said, “that’s it, that- if you promise me that,” “well we’ll put you on the list.” “No not on the list, I gotta have sure orders that I’m going there, without those orders I’m out of here.” But my company commander, my first Sergeant, I went to church with them down there in that chapter. So, we weren’t strangers, in fact in the chapter we were kind of buddies, but then once we get back to the unit, we understand the chain of command. But one little addendum to all of this, in 1993 I got a chance to go back to Korea. With a group of pastors from Michigan and that was a real eye-opening experience because I did get a chance to go back to Dongducheon because what used to only be four-wheel drive then is now a four lane freeway coming in from the south. So, to see that country, the difference between the 1950s and 1993 was daylight and darkness. There were no tall buildings left in Seoul in the 50s, everything was destroyed or knocked down and now we ate dinner in a sixty-story Hyatt Regency hotel building in 1993 and they were getting ready to host the Olympics shortly thereafter and they had a great deal of publicity about how good their country was. And they didn’t underestimate it, they had done a tremendous job of rebuilding that country. (60.00) Interviewer: Alright, now when you’re leaving the military did you know what you wanted to do next? Well I wanted to get back into police work, but God had different plans for me, I felt called to ministry so I kind of, after a couple of police administration and public safety, I opted for ministry and went off to a college and became a united Methodist pastor. �Interviewer: Alright, okay well i think that’s about to the end of the story and it’s also the end of the particular tape. So, I’m going to close out here by thanking you for taking the time to share the story. Thank you very much. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_BaileyP2116V Title A name given to the resource Bailey, Paul (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-18 Description An account of the resource Paul Bailey was born in 1936 and opted to join the Military Police after graduating high school in 1954. Bailey attended Basic Training at Camp Chaffee, Arkansas, and then Fort Gordon, Georgia, for advanced training to become an MP. His first regular assignment was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, during which he noticed the pervasive racial segregation of the south. He was then sent to South Korea where he was statationed six miles from the DMZ and border with North Korea. Bailey returned to the U.S. in 1956 and spent his last year of enlistment at Fort Stewart, Georgia. After leaving the service, he worked a couple of police administration and public safety jobs before entering the united Methodist ministry in which he studied to become a pastor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bailey, Paul F. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/865fa9fdc1ab0a8d35f3c67b2529fff5.pdf b04e8a218895d0c17ffa0307621b8c32 PDF Text Text Day 393. by windoworks Yesterday the state of Michigan recorded 9,339 new cases. The head of the CDC, Rochelle Walensky, is worried the US is headed for another surge. Ive got news for Dr. Walensky - here in Michigan we are already in the middle of the 4th surge. This morning I read a depressing article from Bloomberg about the After Times. Well now I can’t find the article (of course) but what I think it said was: there are two paths. The first path leads to annual vaccinations in years to come. The second path leads to the virus being with us forever as the original virus gives way to ever increasing and more virulent variants. There are, as I am beginning to suspect, very different After Times waiting for us. Yesterday Zoe went to a live theater performance in Sydney, her first in over a year - and in the photo she posted, everyone attending was masked. Is this the New Normal? Is this what the After Times will look like? A friend of mine posted about her day on FB. She took her grandchildren to a country park to play - and in one of the photos, a child was fully masked, outside, on a slide. I have seen so many small children masked in public. They wear them as if this is everyday life. They may not remember a time without mask wearing in public. For Oliver in Australia, for the most part of his daycare life, both he and his mother’s temperature were taken at the door, Mummy wasn’t allowed in past the foyer or for the longest time, inside the building at all. Mummy had to wear a mask to pick Oliver up and drop him off. He sees nothing strange in that at all. Here’s a piece from Crooked Media, titled ‘The Young and the Maskless’: A more contagious variant has become the official face of Hip Young Coronavirus Outbreak 4.0, which features the slick new upgrade of “fewer people dying” and the problematic bug of “everything else you hate about coronavirus.” CDC chief Rochelle Walensky said on Wednesday that B.1.1.7, the coronavirus variant first identified in the U.K., is now the dominant strain circulating in the U.S. That’s contributing to concerns about a potential fourth surge, as case numbers continue to climb. In a snapshot of how quickly this thing spreads, five states that make up just 22 percent of the country’s population—New York, Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey—accounted for 43 percent of confirmed new infections over the last week. The less great news is, young people are the ones getting walloped this time around. Several states are seeing more hospitalized coronavirus patients in their 30s and 40s, and the problem is particularly bad in Michigan, where youth sports seem to be fueling the state’s surge: Michigan school outbreaks have jumped 23 percent in the past week. Part of the issue is that the youngs are letting their guard down—a recent Gallup poll found Americans across age groups have gotten significantly less worried about catching coronavirus as the vaccine rollout improves. �Can I just point out that you have to be fully vaccinated before you can be significantly less worried. And speaking of vaccinations, my mother-in-law got her first jab yesterday in Canberra, Australia, but won’t get her next jab until July (!!!). The new ongoing discussion is now centered around what worked and what didn’t work during the pandemic , and how to incorporate the things we want to keep and how to alter the things we don’t want to keep, to our emerging new reality. Masks that match your outfit perhaps? The story of out payout from the sale of the house is beginning to resemble the story of my new IPad’s tortuous journey to me. As my friend Wendy says: there’s always another thing. But yesterday was the day the first of our treasured houseplants left home. My counselor bagged it and yesterday she came over and Craig squeezed the plant into the footwell in her car and put the stand in the trunk. Suddenly our hallway looked shockingly bare. Soon we will be sitting on deck chairs in the living room and sleeping on an air bed . No just kidding but the dismantling of our lives here is beginning. Here’s a fond last photo of the plant: �You can see why the hall looks bare now. �Now this next thing is so interesting. Also from Crooked Media: A subatomic particle called a muon might break physics as we know it and revolutionize our understanding of the universe, which seems like a much-needed win for a particle that scientists also call a “fat electron.” What’s a Muon I hear you ask. Here’s the short version from Wikipedia: The muon (/ˈmjuːɒn/; from the Greek letter mu (μ) used to represent it) is an elementary particle similar to the electron, with an electric charge of −1 e and a spin of 12, but with a much greater mass. It is classified as a lepton. Right? No real idea. But this interesting to me because on the 2016 Big History Tour of Europe, our group visited the Large Hadron Collider which lies beneath the France - Switzerland border near Geneva. Looking inside the control room at the large Hadron Collider. �Hmmm. �As we stood and watched the people working in the control room, our guide told us about Muons which he said, were coming down from Space and traveling through us down into the earth and the same time, other Muons were traveling up through us up into Space. All the time. Everywhere. In 2016, although they had named this particle, they still really didn’t understand it. I felt really weird for a moment or two. Well now we have a laboratory just outside Chicago with this superconducting magnetic storage ring: First results from the Muon g-2 experiment at Fermilab have strengthened evidence of new physics. The centerpiece of the experiment is a 50-foot-diameter superconducting magnetic storage ring, which sits in its detector hall amidst electronics racks, the muon beamline, and other equipment. This impressive experiment operates at negative 450 degrees Fahrenheit and studies the precession (or wobble) of muons as they travel through the magnetic field. Photo: Reidar Hahn, Fermilab So they’re studying Muons now. I obviously don’t have a true scientific mind as I find these ideas precessing (wobbling). I know this research is exciting and necessary and I’m glad there are people who can understand it and make new discoveries. Okay, that’s the Advanced Science lesson over for today. Okay. So the next day in the Caribbean was a stop at Granada. Grenada is a Caribbean country comprising a main island, also called Grenada, and smaller surrounding islands. Dubbed the “Spice Isle,” the hilly main island is home to numerous nutmeg plantations. It’s also the site of the capital, St. George’s, whose �colourful homes, Georgian buildings and early-18th-century Fort George overlook narrow Carenage Harbour. To the south is Grand Anse Beach, with resorts and bars. ― Google �The wharf at St �George �Our ship is the small one on the left. An egg bush - a joke. They put eggs on the sharp points of the leaves for protection. �Spice Plantation �Every spice you can think of. �The nut near the top is nutmeg and the red strands are �mace A nutmeg packing plant. More Grenada tomorrow. Oliver time. �When he arrived at daycare in the morning, he was wearing shoes and socks. Where did �they go? I’ll leave you with this which shows very clearly who owns Mitch McConnell. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-08_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-393 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-08 Title A name given to the resource Day 393 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/884aada6c4fd8bc3cf3a86e453f4b3df.pdf 0e69f73060493d55ab562844d8491730 PDF Text Text Day 392 by windoworks Its the first day of using my new iPad with its magnetic keyboard, and while I love it, it is going to take me some time to get used to this keyboard. Even returning to the store to trade in my old iPad and purchase the new keyboard was another exhausting experience. To celebrate I gave myself the afternoon off and watched a John Travolta movie on TV. He is a surprisingly good actor after all. �Yesterday the US recorded 62,004 new cases. In Michigan, our daily case average for the week is 6,689. We were driving down to Woodland Mall about 9:45am yesterday morning and there were few cars on the road. It seems that many people have gone to places such as Florida for Spring Break. If Michigan �continues to be the worst state for surging coronavirus cases, then Florida ranks as the second worst, immediately behind Michigan. Its not an honor any of us really want. Washington Post: Athletic activities, such as a youth volleyball tournament, have been linked to spreading the B.1.1.7 strain among young participants as well as referees and others nearby. Transmission may be happening at events like these, and less so in classrooms, as a result of the close contact required by some sports. Here’s some other snippets in no particular order. First up from Crooked Media, something to laugh at: A group stole a Confederate monument in Selma, AL, and will turn it into a toilet unless its demands are met. On Friday, The United Daughters of the Confederacy must hang up a banner bearing the quote, “The rulers of this country have always considered their property more important than our lives,” and leave it up for 24 hours, or it’s toilet time. Next, also from Crooked Media, something to make you say: oh, thats nice: The Atlanta-based organization Love Beyond Walls has installed portable sanitation units for people experiencing homelessness in 52 cities during the pandemic. And finally from the Derek Chauvin trial: Washington Post: Several police officers testified at Derek Chauvin's trial, casting him outside the blue wall of silence. For a week, civilians had offered tearful testimony in the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, describing the horror they felt as George Floyd lay unresponsive with Chauvin’s knee pressed into his neck. In testimony this week, law enforcement officials spoke in unity and with a shared understanding of the challenges of their job — as well as the requirements of it. They made it plain that they believed Chauvin had failed to meet the demands. I have looked at news sources online, but there seems nothing truly uplifting or positive today. Outside the grass is growing and turning green and a few trees are displaying that faint green haze. Yesterday Craig put the furniture out on the front porch and the table, chairs, umbrella and grill out on the back deck. He also put fans in most of the rooms and last night we slept with the fan on in our bedroom. Today is forecast to be even warmer and then the temperatures slowly come down to a more reasonable 50F or so, which is standard for mid April. So, back to our first cruise in the Caribbean. Our next port was Gustavia which is the main town and capital of the island of Saint Barthélemy. Originally called Le Carénage, it was renamed in honor of King Gustav III of Sweden. Saint Barthélemy was first claimed by France in 1648. The island was given to Sweden in exchange for trade rights in Gothenburg in 1784 and Sweden founded the Swedish West India �Company. Prospering during the Napoleonic Wars, assets were low thereafter, and the island was sold back to France in 1878. Wikipedia As you can see, the town was decorated for Christmas �Big fancy boats �A pretty town �Showing the history of Swedish and French ownership �A very modest church being prepared for Christmas �services. A ships anchor. It makes me wonder how big our ships anchors are. �Back on the ship for a delicious Christmas Eve �dinner Complete with carol singing. And Oliver. ��See you tomorrow. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-07_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-392 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-07 Title A name given to the resource Day 392 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5ae9cc7a5711d57278e11c0b777d9def.pdf 5040b176ed3d4c4d518c6ac2ed8e79f1 PDF Text Text Day 391. by windoworks We sold the house. It doesn’t feel any different because we are still living in it, just as we were yesterday morning, but it isn’t our own house anymore. Now I’m nervous that something will break and we’ll have to get permission from our landlord to fix it. Weird, weird, weird. And if signing the house over wasn’t enough for one day, we also had to retrieve my new expensive iPad. I bought it last Thursday and the assistant assured us it would be delivered the next day, Friday. Friday we got a notice that delivery was delayed. Here’s part of the reason why: my new iPad travelled from Pennsylvania to Indiana to Tennessee (?) to Grand Rapids. When I spoke to someone at FedEx yesterday (try finding that contact number and then insisting on speaking to A PERSON), she said I could drive over to the FedEx station nearby but not for 3-4 hours and they would call me to let me know when I could drive over to pick my iPad up. Because it wasn’t slated for delivery until the next day (!!!!) Dear Reader - what did I do? Did I wait 3-4 hours for a phone call? No, Craig looked up the location and we immediately got in the car and drove over there. A really nice young man behind the counter said after looking online: let me see if I can locate it. Less than 10 minutes later he reappeared with my new iPad! When we got home we unpacked it and there was just time for my old iPad to recognize my new iPad and begin the transfer of data. I watched the machines talk to each other. I can’t believe I just wrote that statement. It is a new (albeit somewhat scary) new day. The virus is out of control in Michigan. As my oldest son said: you live in a red zone. From CNN: The highly contagious Covid-19 variant first discovered in the UK has now spread to all 50 states. More than 15,000 such cases have been reported in the US, and while vaccines are highly effective against the variants, medical experts are worried we may not be vaccinating fast enough to prevent more major outbreaks. Remember, this mutation is dangerous because it’s more severe and easier to catch. Craig has a student who is struggling with headaches, fevers, body aches, loss of taste and smell etc and I have a friend who is somewhat recovering although her cough is dreadful. My neighbors on one side: she is almost fully vaccinated, her husband has his second shot in less than a week and their daughter got her first shot less than a week ago. On the other side, the wife has been vaccinated for weeks now, the husband gets his second shot on Monday and I don’t know about their son. More and more of my friends are fully vaccinated. �How to venture out? Here’s a piece from NPR: Zoom meetings. Virtual happy hours. Facetime dates. We've been living in a pandemic world for over a year now, and for better or worse, many of us are used to our new social routines. But as vaccinations ramp up and restrictions begin to loosen across the country, the new question is: Are we ready? After so much time apart, do we even know how to socialize in person anymore? We haven't returned to "normal" yet, but it feels like things are beginning to shift: We can almost hear the backyard barbecues; the cubicle-to-cubicle chatter; those awkward, horrible, adorable first date conversations over candlelit dinner. For many, just the thought is anxiety-inducing. We have been under such a cognitive load over the past year or so that there just may not be the space for two things in one �day. It's also possible the pandemic just revealed the real limits of your social capacity. Two years ago, you may have just not been aware of how exhausted you were. But even if you feel ready to jump back into the world with both feet, don't try to take on too much at once. The world's a changed place, and you've probably changed a bit, too. Set realistic boundaries, and pace yourself: that might mean setting a max number of activities for a weekend, having social "off-hours" or limiting how long houseguests can stay. Draw lines that serve you. Now more than ever, safety is going to look differently for different people, and it's important to respect the boundaries people create for themselves. For you, going mask-free indoors post-vaccination might be freeing and joyful, but for your neighbor, it could be panic-inducing. Ask ahead of time if you're unsure about mixed social situations. Don't impose your level of comfort on anyone else, and be honest (or opt out) if you feel unsafe — even when that might feel extra hard when friends and family are ready to spread hugs all around. My neighbors on both sides and ourselves are so cautious - baby steps. Craig and I are both experiencing a little reaction to food we didn’t cook ourselves - but we’re determined to keep going. We are slowly reemerging. More Dominica. After the plantation, we got back on the bus and traveled up to a look out over Rousseau and then back up into the mountains to visit the 65m-tall Trafalgar Falls inMorne Trois Pitons National Park. ��Looking down from the lookout - you can see our ship at the wharf. �Lush tropical �forest. It was a long steep climb to the waterfalls and I didn’t go. ��Craig took these photos. He has never found a climb or trek that he didn’t want to do. �Next port, Gustavia, tomorrow. Oliver: ��So with this blogpost we say goodbye to this iPad that has served me well over the past year especially. At 10am this morning, in the Apple store, I will delete all information on it and it will be taken to be broken down and used for parts in their recycling center. Tomorrow I will be learning to use my fabulous new iPad with its magnetic keyboard. Remember: we’re all in this together. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-06_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-391 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-06 Title A name given to the resource Day 391 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee42e2bb9f088f80e90abb44987de156.pdf 2b04102a8060d176f853ccd982b90475 PDF Text Text Day 390. 13 weeks to go. by windoworks This is the first of the ‘no turning back days.’ At 3pm this afternoon, we officially sell our house. Both families will have signed all the relevant documents, monies will change hands and we will be renting this house by dinnertime. It has been a wonderful experience living here on this block and in this neighborhood and in this city. We knew nothing about Grand Rapids when we moved here. In 18 years it has grown and changed beyond our first impressions. It has become an interesting and vibrant city. Living here has taught me so much about myself and helped me discover abilities I didn’t know I had. I hope these abilities will help me navigate the huge change in front of me. It seems as though just yesterday we were telling neighbors and friends that we weren’t going anywhere for over 6 months and we all had time to get used to the idea. And here we are, 13 weeks out and time is starting to fly by. Yesterday we drove out along the back way to Grand Haven. About 10 minutes out, we pulled over and Craig called Morning Star and ordered some take out brunch for us. I waited in the parking lot while Craig went into the cafe to pick up our food. Of course my first question when he returned to the car was: how was it? Very careful, he replied. All staff masked and all diners carefully spaced out. As he left, a party of 6, 3 adults and 3 children, came in the door, all maskless. The hostess asked; where are you from? Arkansas, was the answer. As Craig closed the door, the hostess began to say: well, here are our rules .... We drove on to the lakeshore and sat looking at the water lapping the sand. No ice or snow to be seen anywhere. People were sitting on deck chairs on the sand and just enjoying the day. We ate our scrumptious lunch (every last bit - oh how delicious is food that you haven’t cooked yourself) and then drove on to Kirk Park. There were more cars there and everyone was walking down to the beach. But we walked over to the forest trail and walked all around the trail, the long way. What an outing! As a friend says: well, isn’t this nice! Take out lunches on two consecutive days! My, how adventurous we are! But of course, we wear our masks indoors, we wash our hands and we keep safely distant form others. But its not going well, here or overseas. Craig ( the historian) told me yesterday when I asked, historically most pandemic last 3+ years. Oh. So the end of 2023 maybe? here’s the state of play: CNN: Just like experts predicted, coronavirus cases are ticking back up around the world. India has recorded its highest number of Covid-19 cases in a single day since the pandemic began, with more than 100,000 confirmed infections yesterday. South Korea’s health leaders are warning of another surge after the country recorded more than 500 new cases for the fifth straight day. In Europe, a third wave of hospitalizations and deaths has already arrived. Covid-19 variants are mostly to blame for the new rises, but as US officials have warned, lax safety measures are giving these variants even more strength. Now, we have more to worry about, like how long coronavirus vaccines may actually protect people. Doctors are �worried that coronavirus may end up being like influenza, which requires a new vaccine every year because the strains mutate so quickly. This just in from CNN: The US has hit "category five hurricane status" with the pandemic as the Midwest approaches a fourth wave of cases, Michael Osterholm, University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy director, said Sunday. "Let me say that, at this time, we really are in a category five hurricane status with regard to the rest of the world," Osterholm said on NBC's Meet the Press. "At this point, we will see in the next two weeks the highest number of cases reported globally since the beginning of the pandemic. In terms of the United States, we're just at the beginning of this surge, we haven't even really begun to see it yet." Osterholm pointed to Michigan, which has recorded an alarming rise in infection in recent days. The state reported 8,413 new Covid-19 cases on Saturday, its highest tally since December 7, according to health officials. Michigan also has the second highest number of cases of the more contagious B.1.1.7 variant, behind Florida. Osterholm's dire warning comes amid good news for the US vaccine rollout -- the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported a record number of shots over the weekend with more than 4 million doses administered in 24 hours. What’s it like living in a virus hotspot? Well, its scary but we’re fully vaccinated and we have to just keep going as we have done for over 12 months - but it is getting harder and harder to remember the Before Times. Yesterday I read a very interesting piece about those little white vaccination cards. It pretty much mirrors what my friend Margaret told me that she and her husband had done with theirs. Its important for us as we’re going to use them when we fly out (and perhaps when we land in Australia) CNN: Vaccine eligibility in the US is expanding quickly, and so is the popularity of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's little white card. While plans to establish standardized vaccination proof are still being developed, many are holding to their Covid-19 vaccine cards as a potential form of social currency. And companies, like Staples and Office Depot, are offering to help keep them safe with free lamination. While it may be tempting to get your vaccine card laminated as soon as possible, you should take your time and make sure you've considered a few things beforehand. Here's what you should know about laminating your coveted vaccine card. If you are getting a two-dose vaccine, make sure that you receive and document both doses on your card before laminating it. Double check all of your information -- including your name, date of birth, and the date and location of the vaccine -- for accuracy. You should definitely create a backup of your card before laminating it. Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and public health professor at George Washington University, �told CNN that she recommends taking a photo of the card after each dose. "Take a picture after getting the first shot, then after the second one too, in case you lose the physical card," she said. "Keep the picture on your phone, and email yourself a copy to be safe." Wen said she also recommends photocopying the card and keeping it in the same place as other important documents, like your birth certificate. After this, if you want to laminate your card, Wen says to "go for it." Proof is the most important thing -- laminated or not Some worry that getting their vaccine cards laminated will cause trouble in the future if Covid-19 vaccine booster shots are needed. Still, Wen says don't worry. "If you do end up getting a booster after, you can always get a different card," she said. "I wouldn't let that be a deterrent." Ultimately, the thing that trumps all is proof -- laminated or not. As long as you have your card, you're in a good place. Just remember not to share it on social media. So what else is happening? ��From CNN: Tensions between the GOP and Georgia businesses are growing over Georgia’s new restrictive voting law. Late last week, Major League Baseball decided to move the 2021 All-Star Game out of Atlanta, which was set to host the popular annual event this summer. It’s a huge move with an estimated $100 million in lost state revenue. However, Georgia GOP legislators have stood firm in their defense of the law, and have shown they’re not afraid to fight against the giant corporate entities criticizing them. After the CEO of Delta criticized the voting law, Georgia's GOP-led House voted to revoke a jet-fuel tax break that benefited the company. The next battlefront for voter suppression could be Texas, where the state’s Senate recently passed a bill limiting poll times, banning drive-through voting and cutting voting accessibility. And, CNN: The Chauvin trial resumes. The trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin will resume today after last week's emotional testimony. An attorney for George Floyd's family says the trial has been painful to watch for them, a sentiment shared by scores of Black Americans. Personally, its hard for me to see how a jury could acquit Derek Chauvin after all the factual but emotional testimonies given last week. Well, back to the Caribbean. More on our day on Dominica. Our next stop was the cocoa plantation which was up the scariest and worst road ever. We visited the Bois Cotlette Estate. Now this was 3 years ago, so ’m not sure if the family running it are still there. Back story: after 9/11 a man and his wife from New York City visited Dominica on vacation. They visited the dilapidated Bois Cotlette estate which used to be a sugar plantation with slave workers. Over time, the market fell out of sugar in Dominica and the estate was left deserted. I’m not sure if the New Yorker bought the estate or contracted to run it but he and his family moved there and began to run it. They have made many improvements and at the end of our tour they offered us the most delectable cocoa truffles to try. A lot of their income comes from cruise ship tourists. �This was one of the original sugar plantation buildings. �This might have been the ruins of the slave quarters �The remains of the windmill where they used to crush and process the sugar cane �A cocoa pod with beans inside. At this point you suck the sweet mucus from around the �white beans, which are unbearably bitter. Walking on to look at the next stage: drying the beans. �Cocoa beans drying in the sun Yes there’s still more Dominica tomorrow. It was a long day. Oliver �Walking with Uncle �Asher Notice �the shark t-shirt he’s wearing? He asked to wear that t-shirt when Zoe was dressing him in the morning. He’s 20 months old and he’s already choosing his clothes! Stay safe. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-04-05_BenjaminPamelaPD-Day-390 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Benjamin, Pamela Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-05 Title A name given to the resource Day 390 Description An account of the resource Daily journal entry of Pamela Benjamin, spouse of GVSU history professor, Craig Benjamin, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally self-published on WordPress. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng